[bestbits] [governance] Call for Participation: Global Congress on Intellectual Property and the Public Interest, 2015

Sun May 24 02:58:26 EDT 2015

On Sunday 24 May 2015 12:07 AM, Nick Ashton-Hart wrote:
>
> Parminder, to be honest, this dialogue to me exemplifies the problems
> with the dialogue here.
>

Please do clearly state what your problems are bec I do not fully
understand them, other than that you do not want a discussion of how too
much and inappropriate corporatist infusions into civil society spaces
constraint development of the needed public interest position that is
civil society's primary purpose to do and advocate... Now if that is the
crux of your problem, which the current discussion in the BB list has
been about, and which you decried, I dont see much credibility in a
senior rep of tech industry making such a statement. it is kind of so
obvious that it is meaningless.

> You've known me for many years
>

That has no relevance here.... I would have been making the same comment
if my brother was involved in this business.

> and the positions I routinely take.
>

That too has no relevance, although I can begin speaking about your
positions which I wont. In the same way, excuse the analogy, if a
dictator says, well, see my policies are good, why are you asking for
democracy, it would not hold ground when people are seeking a political
structural change ... The main burden of my current interventions has
been that 'content' cannot be seen in isolation of 'structure'. Your
statements in fact give a very good example of what I was trying to
argue in my previous emails.

> We have had this conversation before, I won't burden this list with a
> rerun. I won't be replying further on this subject.
>
I can understand that. So I take it that when you answered 'yes. I am a
civil society person' it was in fact an untrue assertion. You are a
senior rep of a business association. And you cannot be both. We of the
civil society do not accept it.

And if your new organisation IDEA is proposing to be a civil society
organisation, let it disclose its primary aims, and funding, and whether
it would accept a lobbying assignment from any corporate or industry
body. The question is specific, so please try a specific response.
Transparency and accountability are essential facets of democratic
public life, even more so for civil society, which has to be an
exemplar. I as a civil society activist will only have it like that, and
push it with all the strength I have. Dont expect me to be deterred just
because an industry group or its reps want me to shut up and let
corporates lead the civil society discourse by the nose. No, I wouldnt
have it.

> Life's too short.
>
Not to be upfront, transparent and honest! That is what civil society
has to be about.

parminder

> On 23 May 2015 8:19:49 pm parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Saturday 23 May 2015 11:19 PM, Nick Ashton-Hart wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Parminder, nobody can stop you from assuming the worst, but
>>> that doesn't make it true. Candidly, it does increase the overall
>>> hostility on the list, which seems to me the opposite of what this
>>> liat needs.
>>>
>>> As to your question, which has been asked and answered before
>>> several times in different forms in this list and the ICC list too,
>>> yes I am. Even more so given my present professional post ends in a
>>> few days at the end of this month.
>>>
>>
>> Dear Nick,
>>
>> I am asking your present affiliation, about which I am still not
>> clear from the above. Even President Obama can claim he is civil
>> society person with a right to intervene in civil society procedural
>> discussions but then that would be odd, and unacceptable,  isnt
>> it.... (And think of Obama trying to justify it by saying that he is
>> going to lay down office quite soon!)
>>  
>> The website of your organisation IDEA, whose composition, purpose and
>> funding, I still do not yet understand,  currently lists you  -
>> apparently its only staff member - as ' Nick Ashton-Hart is the
>> senior permanent representative of the technology sector to the UN,
>> its member-states, and the international organisations in Geneva'. I
>> am not sure if IDEA can be considered as  a civil society
>> organisation with its only staff being the rep of the tech industry
>> sector.... Really more than a bit funny, I must say.
>>
>> Let me tell you, any worthwhile civil society group I know would find
>> all this as extremely odd, and unacceptable. This strange
>> normlessness and corporate-friendly promiscuity in the IG civil
>> society is exactly what my earlier email was talking about. It is
>> this which does not allow global IG CS to develop the right
>> conceptions of public interest in global IG, much less let it fight
>> forcefully for it. I and groups I work with consider it an extremly
>> important issue in our civil society work, and would keep taking it
>> up forcefully.
>>
>> Best, parminder
>>
>>
>>> On 23 May 2015 19:24:46 parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Saturday 23 May 2015 10:01 PM, Nick Ashton-Hart wrote:
>>>>> +1
>>>>
>>>> Not sure what you are plus-one-ing to, Nick, but if indeed you want
>>>> to make a spectacle of it, well fine by me... I was trying a
>>>> reasoned discussion on what kind of civil society spaces we need to
>>>> promote public interest but you dont seem to be wanting any of it.
>>>> You are baying for blood, so as to say.
>>>>
>>>> So, let me ask you, since you are dispensing gratuitous advice on
>>>> what should be the nature of civil society, and indeed what is an
>>>> ok subject to discuss on the bestbits list, are you a civil society
>>>> member. Just a direct question for self identification . Last time
>>>> I checked BestBits was a civil society coalition, and while it may
>>>> be so that we may not really  be too fussy about people observing
>>>> proceedings and also maybe sometimes do a post or too, but you are
>>>> actually telling how bestbits group should conduct its business,
>>>> and I also have seem numerous comments of a similar kind about the
>>>> IGC list.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the information, and no offense personally. Your example
>>>> is quite a good and live one for my discussion on the problematic
>>>> construction of civil society spaces in the IG area. I would have
>>>> tried to not directly talk about it, just not to hurt anyone, but
>>>> since you are pushing the issue hard I dont think I need to have
>>>> any of such qualms.
>>>>
>>>> Have a good day!
>>>>
>>>> parminder
>>>>>> On 23 May 2015, at 17:42, Claudio Ruiz <claudio at derechosdigitales.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With all due respect, I don’t have the time neither the energy of answering
>>>>>> a 1,500 words email.
>>>>>> Happy to engage in long discussions face to face or with a beer. Not by
>>>>>> email in a mailing list. That’s the whole point, at the end.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> —Claudio Ruiz
>>>>>> derechosdigitales.org | @claudio
>>>>>> PGP fingerprint
>>>>>> C40E 0C6E E7B2 FA91 D8A9 1FC4 74D2 5C4D B603 D089
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 23-05-2015, at 4:32, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (…)
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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