[bestbits] [governance] Re: [IRPCoalition] Time-sensitive: 24 hour sign on period for ITU Plenipot joint recommendations

[McTim]

On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 4:43 PM, michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:


> The issue is to whom are the decision makers ultimately accountable

or is the issue WHO are the decision makers?  What if everyone were
allowed to be a decision maker?



—in a
> Democracy, aspirationally to “the people”, in a MSist world to self-selected
> elite “stakeholders”.
>
>
>
> M
>
>
>
> From: bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net
> [mailto:bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net] On Behalf Of Sivasubramanian M
> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 1:06 PM
> To: David Allen
> Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Bits bestbits at lists.bestbits.net;
> forum at justnetcoalition.org
> Subject: Re: [bestbits] [governance] Re: [IRPCoalition] Time-sensitive: 24
> hour sign on period for ITU Plenipot joint recommendations
>
>
>
> Dear David Allen,
>
>
>
> It requires different variations of the Multi-Stakeholder model for
> different purposes. For the purpose of Internet Governance, we have 700
> seats in the room with 7000 participants in rotation, with 70 million others
> listening, which is sufficient. If we are extending this thought to the
> government of Nations or the World, then it would not be a replacement for
> Democracy, but an enhancement (or call it a Complement), in the sense that
> the Elected Representatives and the Appointed Functionaries would involve
> the rest of the people in day  to day debates and decisions by using the
> Multi-stakeholder model. So, in a scenario where the multi-stakeholder model
> is extended to the larger arena of Governance, after elections, those
> elected would make choices by the multi-staekholder model.
>
>
>
> There is a positive, apolitical reason why Multi-stakeholder model would be
> advantageous. We often find that Governments do not always find solutions to
> problems, some of which are complex problems. Think of the multi-stakeholder
> process as a process of consulting Stakeholders who are experts in their own
> respective sphere. Governments get to have varied expertise leading to
> creative solutions to problems that they are either unable to solve, or
> ineffectively resolve.
>
>
>
> Sivasubramanian M
>
>
> Sivasubramanian M
>
> +1 (213) 300 8293 Oct 11-19 2014
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 1:19 AM, David Allen
> <David_Allen_AB63 at post.harvard.edu> wrote:
>
> Ah yes, you complain that, after elections, only those elected make choices.
> Though of course, those who did the electing did make a choice, of their
> representatives, in the first place ...
>
>
>
> But you imagine some evolution to a model where anyone who shows up has a
> place - and those who do not, of course, well too bad for them ...   Hmmm
> ...
>
>
>
> In the first case, there is opportunity for the masses to speak through the
> ballot box.  And for the second place, you will arrange for a table with 7
> billion places at it?  And arrange to get everyone there?  So, since there
> is no ballot box, they can speak?
>
>
>
> Or, you prefer CJ Leung's [Hong Kong] approach, where we 'don't want to be
> representing the poor folk'?  So ceding power to the powerful?
>
>
>
> David
>
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 24, 2014, at 3:35 PM, Sivasubramanian M <isolatedn at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> It is not fair to say that the Multistakeholder model restricts
> participation. In fact the opposite is true because this new model has a
> working framework in place for bringing in participants other than elected
> representatives and appointed functionaries ( would not be very wrong to
> class these them both under "Government") to the table. And it is too early
> in the evolutionary phase of multistakeholder model to draw a conclusion
> that the participating stakeholders are not representative enough.
>
>
>
> The contrary of what you said is true. By its definition, by its intentions,
> and by the framework already in place, Multistakeholderism DOES extend AND
> broaden the opportunity for EFFECTIVE participation.
>
>
> Sivasubramanian M
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 11:49 PM, michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> MSism as presented bears absolutely no relationship to Participatory
> Democracy, in fact it is exactly the opposite—rather than extending or
> broadening the opportunity for effective participation MSism restricts this
> by putting the condition of “stakeholdership”
>
>
>
>
>
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