[bestbits] Shoshanna Zuboff: Dark Google

Sat May 3 18:09:06 EDT 2014

Nick,

I have no particular truck nor trade with Springer Corp (being old enough to
remember the company of old and how it effectively murdered Rudi Dutschke)
but his comments on Google ring true-ish and whatever their position on
linking his anguish in the face of a Borgish Google (absorbing all in its
relentless path) rings very true to my ears.

(Not quite the same argument but somewhat similar perception of Google...

https://gurstein.wordpress.com/2013/01/05/is-google-like-gas-or-like-steel-n
either-it-is-like-nernsts-third-law-of-thermodynamics-or-the-nicene-creed/

http://tinyurl.com/pctwda9

M

-----Original Message-----
From: nashton at consensus.pro [mailto:nashton at consensus.pro] 
Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2014 8:41 PM
To: michael gurstein
Cc: McTim; bestbits at lists.bestbits.net
Subject: Re: [bestbits] Shoshanna Zuboff: Dark Google

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Michael, it is hard to even count the number of ways you have got this = all
wrong.

You=92ve read a letter from a publisher and since it goes along with = your
prejudices you think it is 100% accurate.

What you clearly don=92t understand is there is a dispute between =
publishers and the whole Internet sector going on here, not just Google. =
The publishers have tried to get the German courts to essentially make =
*every single* link to *every single* piece of copyrighted work = something
that all online uses that involve links must pay for.

This would of course result in a disastrous precedent that would be =
incredibly harmful to freedom of expression.

This has been recognised by scores of NGOs across Europe who have fought =
against this, any number of whom are on this list.

I will be the first to agree with legitimate criticism of companies, but =
this is so spectacularly factually wrong - and wrong in the opposite =
direction of what you have said you stand for - that I really recommend =
you stop this meme defending Axel Springer until you=92ve researched it.=20=

On 3 May 2014, at 20:04, michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:

> McTim, I have no doubt that you and your techie mates were able to =
achieve a cheery consensus on the issues which you chose to address.  I =
have a bit more skepticism about whether a consensus could be reached in = a
discussion with Google on the future of "search" and its possible =
regulation as the head of Axel Springer Corp. seems to be calling for = and
as might be necessary sooner rather than later.
>=20
> My guess is that dealing with a group of people representing several =
billions of dollars in quarterly profits, their armies of very = high-priced
lawyers, their tame government negotiators and their overtly = or covertly
paid for allies in the technical and CS communities might be = a rather
different proposition. But I could be wrong, maybe you all = would end up
singing kumbaya together and going out for pizza after a = multistakeholder
consensus was achieved.
>=20
> M
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dogwallah at gmail.com [mailto:dogwallah at gmail.com] On Behalf Of =
McTim
> Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2014 3:53 PM
> To: michael gurstein
> Cc: bestbits at lists.bestbits.net
> Subject: Re: [bestbits] Shoshanna Zuboff: Dark Google
>=20
> <cc list trimmed to match netiquette>
> =09
> On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 2:55 AM, michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com> 
>=
wrote:
>> This discussion is currently roiling Europe and beyond.
>>=20
>> The discussion and Zuboff's analysis has very significant =
implications for the matters of Multistakeholder governance which are =
currently being triumphantly trumpeted in these contexts and beyond. The =
issues that Zuboff is pointing to with specific reference to Google and =
surveillance underlie the drive to include companies like Google and =
others directly in decision making through multistakeholder =
processes/Internet Governance.
>>=20
>> It hardly takes a huge flight of imagination to recognize the 
>>signals=20=

>> concerning the extreme danger that MSism represents in the context 
>> of=20=

>> Zuboff's arguments i.e. giving Google (et al) effective veto power
>=20
> This myth of a veto that you and Parminder have been propagating is =
just not true.
>=20
> I've participated in many MS fora over the last decade plus and never 
>=
seen a "veto".
>=20
> NB: This isn't a "pro-Google" email, just a note to provide some =
reality based observations.
>=20
>=20
> I would also observe that IF there was a veto (which I've never seen =
any indication of) then wouldn't CS ALSO have the same "veto" in an =
equal-footing forum?
>=20
> jus' sayin'
>=20
> rgds,
>=20
> McTim
>=20
> ____________________________________________________________
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