[bestbits] emails to Adiel
Anja Kovacs
anja at internetdemocracy.in
Fri Jan 10 11:21:17 EST 2014
Dear all,
Following up on my message below, in the end, the LOC decided that today's
meeting would only be open to the LOC. According to communication by
Hartmut, this was to avoid unbalanced representation, as the technical
community has not yet appointed its representatives (see the message below
my email).
In that sense, my request to Adiel to facilitate the participation of the
liaisons in the meeting became irrelevant. However, before the message that
the meeting would now be an LOC-only one came, Adiel did nevertheless
respond to that request. As we (ie the 4 networks that appointed the
liaisons) have insisted on dealing directly with the LOC, he encouraged us
to take up this issue, too, directly with the LOC. He also noted, "At this
point I can not allow myself to talk FOR CS only wile interacting with the
LOC". This needs to be read in the light of his efforts to make possible
the participation of the 1net steering group members in that meeting,
something that was of importance for all those who do feel comfortable with
1net being the conduit for their participation.
Best regards,
Anja
Begin forwarded message:
Dear All,
Because of confusion and/or misunderstandings if the 1Net Steering
Committee already is in place, and
to avoid unbalanced participation (only one or two communities), we decided
that the meeting tomorrow
(Friday January 10th) will be only *a meeting of the Local Organizing
Working Group (Members of CGI.br <http://cgi.br/>)*.
I expect that all BR Meeting Committees will be in place during next week
and then we can start to work with
high speed.
All the best
Hartmu
On 9 January 2014 08:31, Anja Kovacs <anja at internetdemocracy.in> wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> Just to let you know, following up on Adam's email, that as a member of
> the 1net SC, I have requested Adiel to facilitate the participation in
> person of both Joana and Laura in the meeting on 10 Jan. Joana and Laura
> are the liaisons who had indicated they could make it in person.
>
> Will let you know as soon as there is a response.
>
> Best,
> Anja
> On Jan 9, 2014 1:06 AM, "Jean-Christophe NOTHIAS I The Global Journal" <
> jc.nothias at theglobaljournal.net> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Ian. I will include this is a later version.
>>
>> JC
>> __________________________
>>
>> Jean-Christophe
>>
>> Le 8 janv. 2014 à 20:33, Ian Peter a écrit :
>>
>> Hi Jean- Christophe,
>>
>> One correction to your excellent summary
>>
>> *Who are the potential known other members of the Brazilian Internet
>> Steering Committee (BI SC)*
>>
>> The 5 names you mention are CS reps on the 1net Steering Committee – a
>> different entity altogether. (Rafik Dammak; Anriette Esterhuysen; Anja
>> Kovacs; Vladimir Radunovik; Joana Varon )
>>
>> The 1net steering committee mailing list I think was set up about 2 days
>> ago with the reps chosen by various constituencies but as the technical
>> community reps have not been chosen yet is not fully populated. It has a
>> longer term brief than the Brazil meeting.
>>
>> Ian Peter
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Jean-Christophe NOTHIAS I The Global Journal<jc.nothias at theglobaljournal.net>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 08, 2014 9:08 PM
>> *To:* Adam Peake <ajp at glocom.ac.jp> ; brmeeting at cgi.br
>> *Cc:* mailto:bestbits at lists.bestbits.net <bestbits at lists.bestbits.net> ; Civil
>> Society Internet Governance Caucus - IGC <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>;
>> igfmaglist-owner at intgovforum.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [bestbits] emails to Adiel
>>
>> Behind mis-communication and confusion, there might be some good
>> reasons for the mess (not always but...).
>>
>> A good story is beginning to take shape, and as far as we can understand
>> it now, its title might be:
>> *ICANN invites ICANN to BRAZIL to debate IG*
>>
>> *So now just trying to get things rights (and calling for editing my
>> information to the listings)*
>>
>> When visiting the new website (online since Jan7, 2014) set for the
>> purpose of the meeting (brmeeting.br), only minor informations are
>> available. Quite a surprise for such an ambitious conference and serious
>> issue. In the section 'About' we find a map for the location of the venue,
>> and its address. In the 'Announcements' section, there is one 1 release
>> dated Nov 26, 2013, and a link to ICANN announcement dated Oct 7, 2013. In
>> the section 'Committees' we find 4 committees described with 3 phrases. The
>> last section 'Accommodations' presents the 3 hotels and their contact info.
>> In the 'Contact' section, you click to pop up an email.
>>
>> This is rather minimalist, to say the least, for a new website. Is Brazil
>> lacking some funds and means to get this website to the appropriate level
>> of concern?
>>
>> From diverse emails, I end up with the following information.
>>
>> *Who are the Organizers?*
>> Officially, we have BRAZIL and ICANN with the support of the other I*
>> (see Montevideo Statement mention) meaning ISOC, IETF, RIRs...
>>
>> *Who is chairing the Brazilian Multistakeholder Conference on Internet
>> Conference?*
>> One delegate from the Brazilian Government, one from ICANN and 2
>> additional persons chosen by BRAZIL and ICANN**. Names??
>>
>> *Who are the Representatives of the Organizers?*
>> Officially the one entity which role is to organize the meeting is a "*Brazilian
>> Internet Steering Committee*". This committee is not per say Brazilian
>> as it embeds ICANN representatives and Brazilian representatives. It should
>> be a *US-BRAZILIAN Internet Steering Committee*, or an *ICANN and BRAZIL
>> Internet Steering Committee*.
>>
>> For Brazil the head representative is Virgilio F. Almeda. Officially he
>> is the coordinator. The name of the ICANN delegate is not available on the
>> meeting's website. Almeda is also the coordinator of a secretariat. It
>> seems like this secretariat will handle the organization of the meeting AND
>> the 'coordination/management/inter-communication within the committees (see
>> below). We have no specific information about the "shared secretariat".
>>
>> *Who are the Representatives for all IG
>> participants/specialists/priesthood/stakeholders (remember the
>> multistakeholder story)?*
>> After its first meeting the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee BI SC
>> (unclear who took the decision within the BI SC) has expressed desire for a
>> "filter" with the many stakeholders part of the IG debate (Too much work,
>> too little time). Something quite unexpected for two reasons. Setting a
>> multistakeholder conference with a single filter sounds odd, specially when
>> this filter has no existence, no constituencies, no mandate, no membership,
>> no board, no proper information flow. What we know about this filter (1net)
>> is that it was set by ICANN, and the other I* (mostly constituents of the
>> current status quo and its asymmetric US role over the Internet). And it
>> was presented, if not endorsed (no reason for ICANN to ask the IGF to
>> endorse a private initiative) during the last IGF Bali meeting.
>> Everyone familiar with the IG debate would have bet that an IGF
>> delegation would have been the best "filter" to prepare the
>> multistakeholder conference. Or a direct and open system of call for
>> participation.
>>
>> *let's be positive, as a remote participation will be allowed, organizers
>> will be able to share a feeling of participation.
>>
>> *Who are the other governments participating?*
>> No idea so far, but Brazilian ambition on this seems to be at a low
>> 12-government guest cards. I would bet that the US will not participate as
>> most of the US delegation present at WCIT 2012 will be there anyway through
>> the I*.
>>
>> *Who are the members of the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee (BI
>> SC)?*
>> - Virgilio Almeda for the Brazilian government.
>> - Hartmut Richard Glaser for LOG, CGI.br
>> - Adiel Akplogan on behalf of the I* (himself at AFRINIC ) under the
>> umbrella of the 1net UFO (© ICANN).
>> - 3 civil society stakeholders : Carolina Rossini (New America
>> Foundation), Joana Varon Ferraz (Fundação Getulio Vargas) and Laura (Joana
>> and Laura are also part of the 1net steering committee or 1net steercom)
>> - ICANN representatives?
>> - Others?
>> ...
>> (sorry but I do not have the full list of the participants of the first
>> BI SC, and no official information is available online on the brmeeting
>> website)
>>
>> *Who are the potential known other members of the Brazilian Internet
>> Steering Committee (BI SC)*
>> - Adiel Akplogan for 1net has asked for members of the 1net steering
>> committee to be included in the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee. Btw,
>> Carolina Rossini asked for the names of the 1net steercom reps to Adiel
>> but we haven't seen his answer yet.
>> - The IG listings (bestbits IG) have suggested 5 names to participate in
>> the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee (Rafik Dammak; Anriette
>> Esterhuysen; Anja Kovacs; Vladimir Radunovik; Joana Varon (she is already
>> in through 1net). With a 'back-up': Marilia Maciel. So far no formal
>> feedback from them after the first BI SC meeting (maybe I have missed
>> something here)
>> - 4 liaisons to the BI SC are requested on behalf of another civil
>> society network (see Parminder et al letter sent in 2013)
>> * I am not sure of what is the difference between a liaison and a member
>> at the BI SC.
>>
>> *Who are the members of the 4 stakeholder committees supposed to prepare
>> the event under the BI SC overview?*
>> This should be announced by mi January. Who is appointing them? Not quite
>> clear but it seems to be that the BISC will finalize the names in agreement
>> with the organizers (BRAZIL and ICANN).
>> The IG listings have been collecting names and an ad hoc selection
>> committee is now reviewing the final selection. The final names selected
>> will be sent to the BI SC for approval.
>> For other nominations, the BICS in agreement with the organizers (BRAZIL
>> and ICANN) should decide and announce the names.
>> We don not know about other names.
>>
>>
>> *Who are the members of the informal meetings such as the Jan 10 meeting?*
>> LOG (Hartmut et al) and a 1net representative designated by 1net steering
>> committee. Brazilian government representative(s). No other governments
>> representatives are expected.
>> The agenda of the meeting is not published. We have been told that the
>> meeting will discuss logistic, including the remote participation issue for
>> the event.
>> Joana (member of the 1net SC, and BI SC) asked Hartmut (BI SC) to include
>> other members of the 1net SC (Jan 7) in this meeting
>> Carolina (member of the BI SC) asked Hartmut (BI SC) to include the 3
>> civil society stakeholders members of the BI SC be invited to the Jan 7
>> meeting (Joana, Laura and Carolina)
>>
>> Of course, all of that should come with the usual criteria of goodwill
>> ** Participants are requested to be able to work together and in all
>> circumstances be able to represent the diversity of views
>> ** Participants should talk on an equal footing with other participants
>> * As schedule is tight, participants should be happy with all the
>> mismatches, odd decisions, and possible troubleshooting. And therefore not
>> too demanding.
>>
>> The original criteria listing for selecting participants to the 4
>> committees is here (source Ian Peter - Dec 22, 2013)
>> 1. Able to represent civil society as a whole, not just your
>> individual civil society organisation(s)
>> 2. Able to work collegiately with other stakeholder groups in a
>> multistakeholder setting
>> 3. Able to consult widely with civil society groups and to report
>> back as the process progresses
>> 4. Ability to represent civil society at a senior level in these
>> discussions
>> 5. Broad knowledge of internet governance issues and the range of
>> civil society perspectives on these issues
>> 6. Capacity to participate assertively and creatively
>>
>> I would really appreciate that all errors, mistakes, complement of
>> information, or new information be pushed forward. I hope this contribute
>> to establish clarity about the process and help overall understanding.
>>
>> Too bad Hartmut didn't answer my previous questions. Thanks for your time
>> on this.
>>
>> Thanks in advance
>> JC
>>
>>
>> __________________________
>>
>> Jean-Christophe Nothias
>> Editor in Chief
>> jc.nothias at theglobaljournal.net
>> @jc_nothias
>>
>> Le 8 janv. 2014 à 07:54, Adam Peake a écrit :
>>
>>
>> On Jan 8, 2014, at 2:46 PM, parminder wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday 07 January 2014 10:26 PM, Carolina Rossini wrote:
>>
>> Dear folks,
>>
>>
>> Adiel will be the person in the meeting in Brazil on January 10th.
>> Folks in Brazil want this "1Net" fictional entity to filter ALL
>> conversations with CGI.
>>
>>
>> Carolina
>>
>>
>> Your description of 1Net and its role as seen by LOG is interesting. The
>> point is; does civil society agree to this arrangement - of 1Net filtering
>> all conversations with CGI... or have we simply become a pushover
>> (willing?) for the powerful to make deals among themselves. That would be
>> such a shame, and I have begun to get this feeling that we are fast getting
>> there if not already there.
>>
>>
>>
>> Seems like a lot of mis-communication all round.
>>
>> Adiel will not be at the meeting on Jan 10th. Email from the 1Net
>> discuss list:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 8, 2014, at 3:17 AM, Adiel Akplogan wrote:
>>
>>
>> I won't be in Brazil. I have already asked if the /1net steercom reps
>> can attend the meeting at least as observer, awaiting for answer from the
>> LOC.
>>
>>
>> - a.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Let's wait and see how the local organizers respond to his request to
>> have steering committee members attend. I am beginning to loose track of
>> committee/nominations, etc., but believe we have selected five steering
>> committee members:
>>
>> Rafik Dammak
>> Anriette Esterhuysen
>> Anja Kovacs
>> Vladimir Radunovik
>> Joana Varon
>>
>> Marilia Maciel as back-up.
>>
>> Can't imagine there's anyway to have all five attend in person :-) But
>> there are ways to have input. Hopefully the committee at least has a list.
>> And if some of the other Brazil CS liaisons are available at such short
>> notice, suggest we ask they + Marilia be invited to attend as proxies.
>> Perhaps one of the 5 steering committee members could make this request?
>>
>> We now have about 11 weeks until the end of March when meeting needs to
>> be in near final shape. Time will always mess up our hopes for good
>> process, let's work with what we have... and thanks to those volunteering
>> to help.
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>
>>
>> Do we want to write to LOG/ CGI that this arrangement is not acceptable
>> to us? I request that list members give their response to this.
>>
>>
>> That reminds me: at Bali, this issue was much discussed and four
>> prominent civil society groups (IGC, BB, APC and IRP) together agreed that,
>> no this arrangement is not acceptable to us (Please let me know if this is
>> *not* what people thing got agreed) and decided to send a letter to
>> Brazilians to the effect, and also putting forward 4 CS Liaisons, who were
>> requested to be invited to all meetings related to organising the Brazil
>> meeting. (Quite inexplicably though the drafting and sending of the letter
>> got highly delayed even after this decision.)
>>
>>
>> Caroline, you, and Joana and Laura were 3 liaisons . Why did you not keep
>> us posted about what was happening in Brazil... Did you insist that you be
>> invited to all meetings? If so, what was their response? Why did you not
>> share their response with all of us? Why when, while such is in any case
>> the duty of any CS rep, the letter clearly said that the Liaisons will keep
>> CS groups posted about developments. However, whereas much has happened
>> since that time, I dont remember a single report by the liaisons to us.
>> Carlos used to report but then he had to drop out since he was made a
>> member of LOG. But what about the three of you?
>>
>>
>> When after the last LOG meeting, we got the bombshell that it has been
>> officially decided that 1Net will as you say 'filter ALL conversations with
>> CGI' I wrote repeatedly to this list requesting CS Liaisons to bring us to
>> speed about what is happening. In fact, even Ian (and I think Jeremy) asked
>> for some information about what was happening. But NONE of you responded to
>> any of our requests....
>>
>>
>> I think. sorry for my words, but this is about a public duty, and
>> seeking accountability about it, this is a clear abdication of the role
>> that you all were given as CS reps... I am sure there must be an
>> explanation of this somewhere, in which case please do share it.
>>
>>
>> Thanks, parminder
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> So, it is better to write to Adiel, not just to CGI. Here is Adiel
>> email if you prefer to do so: Adiel Akplogan <adiel at afrinic.net>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Carol (in my personal capacity)
>>
>>
>>
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>
--
Dr. Anja Kovacs
The Internet Democracy Project
+91 9899028053 | @anjakovacs
www.internetdemocracy.in
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