[governance] IGF 2020 to be held in Poland

Fri Jun 7 16:34:34 EDT 2019

Isn't  Lithuania an Eastern European country? IGF was held there in 2010.

Farzaneh

On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 4:11 PM Shcherbovich Andrey <dvbirve at yandex.ru>
wrote:

> I am completely in favor
>
> IGF never before taken place in the Eastern Europe.
>
> 07.06.2019, 08:43, "Mawaki Chango (via governance Mailing List)" <
> governance at lists.riseup.net>:
>
> Michael,
>
> Your point is well taken and well understood. But there is still a
> legitimate concern. Those requirements you're referring to may be asked to
> be ascertained by the organizations sponsoring the participation of
> concerned individuals, at least in some cases. For instance in the case
> at hand, the sponsoring entity was an intergovernmental organization (not
> a regional one, geographically speaking, but one with a membership cutting
> across regions albeit not a universal one such the UN type.) As such,
> they are reputable and can be reasonably trusted not to vouch for
> individuals who may just be looking for the first opportunity to run away
> from their country. On the other hand, as an intergovernmental
> organization their rules and operating procedures do not allow the staff
> to enter into any kind of official talks with a government that is not a
> member (that can only happen at a political level.) In sum, they cannot directly
> negotiate special conditions of entry with such government for their
> invitees, whereas ICANN, as the convening organization, can.
>
> I am just wondering whether there is not enough room here for some
> institutional creativity? Could ICANN involve a number of organizations
> early in the process so that the arrangements it secures with the host
> country in order to facilitate access are inclusive enough? In any case,
> no organization is obliged to go hold a meeting in a country where the
> accessibility conditions (or barriers to entry) may exclude a notable
> portion of the community which it is supposed to serve and bring together
> during those meetings.
>
> Best regards,
> Mawaki
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 6, 2019, 19:01 Michael Palage <mike at palage.com> wrote:
>
> Stephanie,
>
>
>
> While I am no ICANN.org (Staff) cheerleader by any means, I actually think
> ICANN legal made the right call.
>
>
>
> For example in connection with the recent Bangkok GDD as part of the visa
> process I had to show proof of funds to visit and more importantly leave
> the country.
>
>
>
> While I see ICANN being able to make that representation, and legally
> commit to it on behalf of ICANN employees, I do not see how ICANN could
> make that representation for community members.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> *From:* governance-request at lists.riseup.net <
> governance-request at lists.riseup.net> *On Behalf Of *Stephanie Perrin
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 6, 2019 6:14 AM
> *To:* governance at lists.riseup.net
> *Subject:* Re: [governance] IGF 2020 to be held in Poland
>
>
>
> Wow that is quite a story.  I think it is particularly objectionable that
> ICANN facilitated visas for their staff but not the community in the Panama
> City case.  They are supposed to be working for us.
>
> Stephanie Perrin
>
> On 2019-06-06 03:38, Mawaki Chango (via governance Mailing List) wrote:
>
> Michael, that's okay :)
>
> My story in this instance was just offered as a testimony echoing the
> experience of many others. But please don't let that eclipse my last
> paragraph in that message, which specifically address the question : What
> can be done? I hope anyone here who may be concerned take note. The country
> chosen for the venue and the level of measures the convening organization
> is willing to secure in order to facilitate access to that country/venue
> for all members of the community should be taken seriously as indicative of
> the openness and inclusiveness of that organization regarding the community
> engagement with its very subject matter and in its processes. In my view
> ICANN failed on that in this (and probably not the only) instance.
> IGF/UNDESA, too, have more work to do.
>
>
>
> Thank you all for your attention. Now, I am ready to get back to
> discussing Internet governance in substance.
>
>
>
> Mawaki
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 6, 2019, 07:03 Michael J. Oghia <mike.oghia at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Wow Mawaki, thank you for sharing this. I'm sorry you had to deal with all
> that. You make good points, though. Forgive the brevity of this reply in
> light of your own, but I just don't have much more to say.
>
>
>
> Best,
> -Michael
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 11:09 PM Mawaki Chango <kichango at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Michael, all:
>
>
>
> What are the solutions to this? I feel there's still room for the
> convening entity to do more with the host country in order to facilitate
> visa issuance (and this does not apply only to Schengen but to any country
> for which it might be challenging to get a visa from the peripheries of the
> world.) As the saying goes about images, I'd say a story is worth a
> thousand arguments. So here you go.
>
>
>
> ICANN meeting, Panama City. Panama has only up to 3 ambassies in the whole
> of Africa which, you might remember, is as large as several other
> continents put together: those are at the southern end (South Africa) and
> the northern end (Egypt and possibly Morocco, if my memory is correct) of
> the continent. Those 3 countries are far away for someone living in the
> middle part of the continent -- I'd say about 5 hour flight average from
> Lome for instance. And the visa application takes generally a week to be
> processed and that waiting time away from one's home country would have to
> a substantial cost. With such configuration, one might as well head to a
> Schengen capital where it's easier both to have access to a Panama
> consulate for the visa and to proceed with a direct flight to Panama City
> in this case. The two scenari are sub-optimal, to say the least, although
> the latter seems the least costly.
>
>
>
> So I tried to see whether ICANN could help in any way. I was a bit shocked
> to discover that ICANN made arrangements with the host country to grant
> visa on arrival only for their staff; nobody else could benefit from that.
> I tried to argue with the management that ICANN is a community-based
> organization and that they should very much care about facilitating
> participation from the community (people, stakeholders, etc.) not just the
> staff. But there was nothing I could say to make them change, of course;
> they already had an agreement with the host country.
>
>
>
> Finally what happened is I got in touch with the Panama's consul in Paris
> and he was nice enough to commit to issuing my visa the same day should I
> have all the documents required. I had already an appointment with the
> consulate of France, which you get after paying a fee (that procedure was
> the first thing I did by reflex as soon as I knew I was going to be invited
> to the Panama meeting and that country has no consulate anywhere near.)
> Yet, the earliest available slot fell after the ICANN meeting dates. In
> such cases the prospective applicant is invited to call in every other day
> to find out whether a slot has been surrendered in the mean time. In sum,
> it went some way like this: I got informed on a Friday that there was a
> newly available slot on Monday. The latest I could catch the flight to
> Paris would be on Thursday that week (for a chance to be at the Panama
> consulate in Paris on Friday, and then catch the flight from Paris to
> Panama city on Saturday, etc.) When I dropped the first visa application on
> Monday, I explained to them the time constraints (again, it requires
> normally one full week to process these visa applications.) They said they
> will try but they can't promise, because they need clearance from their
> central administration after security screening, etc. Facing such uncertain
> prospects, the sponsor decided to cancel flights and hotel reservations
> before they lose all their money with possibly a late cancelation. Thursday
> came, I got the first visa that opens the doors for the rest, but I
> couldn't go anywhere because all the subsequent travel and accommodation
> arrangements were canceled, as the schedule was too tight while the outcome
> was uncertain up to the last minute.
>
>
>
> The whole process took so much time and energy (which on top of that prove
> to be useless) that when I received the invitation letter to the next ICANN
> meeting, I didn't even give it a thought; I declined.
>
>
>
> Countries or nations-states have their sovereignty and no one can demand
> they change, wholesale, their policies or their bureaucratic culture (for
> instance, issuing a visa to cover only the specific dates of a meeting
> despite a heavy procedure and the likelihood of repeats within a single
> year vs. being opened to granting long term visas depending on the
> precedents or profile of the applicant.) But UNDESA/IGF, ICANN, etc. should
> assign themselves the goal of getting from the chanceries of the host
> countries the maximum visa facilitating measures possible for ALL
> prospective participants in their meetings - from visa on arrival to
> setting up a fast track in the consulates for visa interview appointments
> and application processing (maybe the latter is a new idea? In any case, it
> just occurred to me.) Certainly, just issuing an invitation letter and a
> proof of registration to the meeting is not enough.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Mawaki
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 5, 2019, 09:35 "Michael J. Oghia" <governance at lists.riseup.net>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Mawaki, all:
>
>
>
> No need to apologise or call it a rant. It's a very fair point, and I
> appreciate your articulation. As someone who lives in Europe and
> undoubtedly benefits from having the IGF hosted on the continent, I am also
> frustrated that – assuming it's already been decided – the IGF would be
> held yet again in Europe.
>
>
>
> I know that the country where it's held mainly rests on which government
> is willing to host it, so I do understand if the options are limited.
>
>
>
> What are the solutions to this?
>
>
>
> Best,
> -Michael
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 11:26 AM Mawaki Chango <governance at lists.riseup.net>
> wrote:
>
> Good point, Abdeldjalil. Geneva, Paris, Berlin and now Poland
> (Varsovie/Warsaw, I guess?) That's four.
>
> The Schengen visa is such a hassle for so many people, and so time
> consuming! I'm not even talking about getting all the paperwork in order.
> One has to secure the interview appointment months and months in advance
> and that alone is sometimes enough to cause failure.
>
>
>
> And when you manage to get the visa, it only lasts the exact number of
> days planned for your meeting (or whatever the purpose of the visit.) And
> even if one knows there's another meeting (say, ICANN) coming up in the
> next few months still in the Schengen space which one needs to attend, one
> has to go through all of it again. They won't consider that even if the
> visa paperwork for the next meeting is ready. Certainly not if the two
> consecutive meetings are happening in two different Schengen countries,
> although any Schengen country visa applies to the whole of Schengen space.
> I'm not even sure they accept to issue an extended visa in the case the two
> meetings were to happen in the same country three or four months apart. The
> bureaucracy of sovereignty !
>
>
>
> Okay, I guess that was my mid-week rant. Otherwise, I'm looking forward to
> seeing and enjoying Berlin and hopefully Warsaw.
>
>
>
> Mawaki
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 5, 2019, 08:29 Abdeldjalil Bachar Bong <bachar at igf.td> wrote:
>
>
>
> Thanks Arsene for sharing.
>
>
>
> Congratulation for that innovation :knowing the date early .
>
> After 3 round I'm Europe we hope that after Poland will be in AFRICA .
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
>
> Cordialement
>
> ABDELDJALIL BACHAR BONG
>
>
> ----------------------------------
> PRESIDENT & CEO
>
>
> ASSOCIATION "HOUSE OF AFRICA"
> E-mail: bachar at houseof.africa
> Twitter: @HOUSEOFINTERNET
> WEBSITE : www.houseof.africa
> Whatsapp: +23566274284
> Skype: Bongbour
>
> -------------------------------------
>
> Le Secrétaire Exécutif/Executive Secretary
>
> Forum sur la Gouvernance de l'Internet au Tchad (FGI Tchad) /
> Chad Internet Governance Forum
> -------------------------------------
>
> E-mail: Bachar at igf.td
> Website: www.igf.td
> Twitter :@IGFCHAD
> https://twitter.com/bacharbong
> Tél:0023566274284
> N'djaména(Tchad)
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------
> |AFRINIC Fellow|ISOC CHAD Member|ICANN/AFRALO Member|NEXTGEN
> Fellow|GIVE1PROJECT MEMBER|IGFSA MEMBER|ACIEDD BOARD MEMBER|UN YOUTH
> DELEGATE - CHAD 2016-2018|ICANN60 Fellow ||Youth Peacebuilder|||
>
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>
>
> Sincerely,
> Dr. Andrey A. Shcherbovich
> Associate Professor,
> Department of Constitutional and Administrative Law,
> National Research University
> Higher School of Economics
>
>
> С уважением,
> Щербович Андрей Андреевич,
> к.ю.н., доцент кафедры конституционного
> и административного права
>
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