[governance] Idea of Instant Messaging for IGCaucus

[Janna Anderson]

+1 
Stick with email.

On 7/29/19, 7:38 AM, "governance-request at lists.riseup.net on behalf of Tapani Tarvainen" <governance-request at lists.riseup.net on behalf of tapani.tarvainen at effi.org> wrote:

    I don't think it's a good idea to move off email.
    
    *Adding* other tools or media for some purposes would be worth
    considering, however.
    
    But before choosing any such we should think about the selection
    criteria and get input from as many members as possible.
    
    There are many chat apps if that's what we want, but all of them have
    some problems.
    
    Telegram is illegal in rather too many countries to be practical
    (it has other problems too).
    
    WhatsApp requires a phone, there's no real desktop client (using it
    with a browser is clumsy, misses key features and needs to have phone
    connected all the time anyway), and as noted it belongs to Facebook now.
    
    Somewhat better in that category would be Signal or Wire, but they
    have their own issues, too.
    
    And all of those depend rely on an external service provider
    that may change for the worse or go under unexpectedly.
    
    Alternatively we could host our own Jitsi server or something similar.
    
    But if we abandon email completely, I fear we'll lose more old
    participants than gain new ones. I would not go that route.
    
    Tapani
    
    On Jul 29 12:46, Alex Comninos (governance at lists.riseup.net) wrote:
    
    > Hi All
    > 
    > I would recommend either Telegram or WhatsApp, both offer end-to-end encryption. How this works in practice for groups is questionable.
    > 
    > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmedium.com%2F%40haniahshafi%2Fare-whatsapp-group-chats-vulnerable-to-spying-despite-end-to-end-encryption-ab0e522fa8d9&data=02%7C01%7Candersj%40elon.edu%7Cc4138f141ea0471fe2f508d714193515%7Cba18326d711f4ae286816115493a7a53%7C1%7C0%7C636999970848577055&sdata=IP13q%2BD8eka%2BcqYOlZBp0kuSjZEtdwAoNlWxbj0FOK8%3D&reserved=0 <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmedium.com%2F%40haniahshafi%2Fare-whatsapp-group-chats-vulnerable-to-spying-despite-end-to-end-encryption-ab0e522fa8d9&data=02%7C01%7Candersj%40elon.edu%7Cc4138f141ea0471fe2f508d714193515%7Cba18326d711f4ae286816115493a7a53%7C1%7C0%7C636999970848587047&sdata=O19t2wwfncvh8SKotiBE%2BsYOp6NDvUOdOaJKV29BeKU%3D&reserved=0>
    > 
    > I do think its a great idea to move off email.
    > 
    > Telegram has much cooler group functionality and also allows to make public groups.
    > 
    > WhatsApp is more ubiquitously used, although there are some that don’t like to use it because Facebook.
    > 
    > --
    > Alex Comninos
    > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Falex.africa&data=02%7C01%7Candersj%40elon.edu%7Cc4138f141ea0471fe2f508d714193515%7Cba18326d711f4ae286816115493a7a53%7C1%7C0%7C636999970848587047&sdata=IPo4%2BqA31dRxCAgXgDd%2FDcvmJKxDo%2BXJNNAQt1EkgEw%3D&reserved=0
    > 
    > > On 29 Jul 2019, at 11:37, Imran Ahmed Shah (via governance Mailing List) <governance at lists.riseup.net> wrote:
    > > 
    > > Thanks Nadira,
    > > Privacy is really major concern and not even if the contact information is used for marketing or marketers, but also track behaviors and eyeball or information stored on the computing devices. This is a real life issue but these application claims to use this artificial intelligence to support their users on the other hand and we can not stop them from doing this... It's also an IG Issue. 
    > > 
    > > >So far I didn't experience any marketing messages stemmed from Skype chat.
    > > 
    > > Skype Messaging: 
    > > Do you think that its chat can be reviewed later-on or in other words viewable by newcomers/ newjoiners to the the discussion thread of discussion group? I think that this feature will be required or good to have in the system to be proposed to opt. 
    > > 
    > > Secondly, the discussion could be viewable for public who are not members of the caucus... If comparing withe the basic features of mailing list for transparency and openness. 
    > > 
    > > Thirdly, we should also look into its capacity, that how much users in group could be accommodated at a same time. 
    > > 
    > > Best Regards 
    > > 
    > > Imran Ahmed Shah
    > > 
    > > 
    > > 
    > > On Monday, 29 July 2019, 13:56:55 GMT+5, Nadira Alaraj <governance at lists.riseup.net> wrote:
    > > 
    > > 
    > > Thank you Imran for raising this issue.
    > > I agree with you that many of those who started with social media before emails hardly use emails.
    > > However we all have our concerns with regards to the privacy of the different instant messaging that track what we do and expose us to unrequired marketing messages.
    > > So far I didn't experience any marketing messages stemmed from Skype chat.
    > > 
    > > Nadira AL-Araj 
    > > 
    > > On Mon, Jul 29, 2019, 09:44 Imran Ahmed Shah <governance at lists.riseup.net <mailto:governance at lists.riseup.net>> wrote:
    > > Dear All,
    > > 
    > > As we have seen that electronic mail system (email) replaced the snail or post mail system decades ago, in the recent era (since last couple of years), the email system has also left-behind* by the new form of text, audio and visual or video based instant messaging commonly used as communication mechanism over the social networks. I also believe that the new generation is hardly using email system or perhaps using it very rarely.
    > > 
    > > IGC Mailing lists had been an openly viewable platform with subjective discussion where everyone can reply in his/er own peace time. Very positively served its purpose for last 15+ years. However, I am opening a discussion thread for kind review and discussion among the caucus; that how much it is useful and practical, if we could also (be able) to have (some kind of) instant messaging platform for the IGC Caucus. I do not have the exact idea that which of the platform will be most relevant and appropriate, open-source, openly viewable and accessible internationally, but I learned that unless we adopt the communication media of the new generation, there will remain a significant gap between ages (or age base user constituencies), and we will not be able to engage them or involve them. I am looking towards enhancement of our capacity allowing the broader and more global constituency and youth to be involved and contribute transnational character of Civil Society in International Internet Governance Workspace with their logical participation and representation from every region of the globe.
    > > 
    > > Comments of everyone on the list and off the list are welcome.
    > > Thanking you and Best Regards
    > > 
    > > Imran Ahmed Shah
    > > 
    > > P.S.
    > > *Just to clarify that I am not saying that email system has been failed. I believe that email system is very useful and implemented significantly and globally, however adding the positive impact and characteristics and usefulness of the instant messaging platforms too.
    > > ---