[governance] IGF - World Economic Forum (WEF) Collaboration Discussion Document

Wed Feb 13 15:49:15 EST 2019

I do not notice that the MAG chair answered the question, as to which side, and specifically who, initiated.

David

> On Feb 13, 2019, at 1:55 AM, Arsène Tungali (via governance Mailing List) <governance at lists.riseup.net> wrote:
> 
> Dear all,
> 
> As we keep on reflecting.
> 
> Here is a question I asked Lynn (Chair of the MAG) on the MAG public list:
> 
> “Who requested this collaboration in the first place? Is it the WEF
> that came to the IG or the other way around? If it is the IGF that
> went on seeking WEF's collaboration, was it done through the IGF
> Secretariat or was it a personal initiative of the MAG Chair?”
> 
> And here is her answer:
> 
> “Re your questions below, the WEF and the IGF have been collaborating
> on various projects for at least 5 years, initially, I believe,
> through the Internet For All project where the (then Chair) and
> Secretariat followed the work of the WEF, and the Internet For All
> project was made known to the NRIs for voluntary participation where
> interests and projects intersected.  There may have been other
> projects at that early point as well (NetMundial Initiative? though
> that didn’t get too far within the IGF); if important we can follow up
> with the secretariat or MAG members from that time, as my recollection
> is certainly not complete nor definitive.
> 
> This recent offer of collaboration recognized the complementary nature
> of our communities, and of course any collaboration would be voluntary
> - on all parties.
> 
> In my personal opinion, I would always opt for engaging with any
> community that has a stake in the Internet (or applications, services,
> etc.) to help ensure they were getting the most representative view
> possible.  It was in that light that this Collaboration Discussion
> Document was produced.  It was introduced at the MAG Open Consultation
> meeting under the Agenda item: 'Related IG activities', but not
> discussed in any detail, mainly due to time.  It will be scheduled for
> a future MAG meeting once the more pressing items having to do with
> the Call for Workshops is well advanced.
> 
> Hope this helps clarify,
> 
> Best,
> Lynn”
> 
> Let me know what are your thoughts and if this helpful or not.
> 
> Regards,
> Arsene
> 
> 
> 
> 2019-02-12 12:39 UTC+02:00, Akinremi Peter Taiwo <compsoftnet at gmail.com>:
>> Digging down the history path is a good thing. It's also true that WEF is
>> opposite of openness and transparency, but how long should we continue in
>> SILO. It's a question that needs to be truly answered by everyone of us.
>> Please don't get me wrong, I am not advocating for WEF, but exploring
>> collaborative opportunities that can influence stakeholders to do the right
>> thing in a right way. There might be the motive behind this collaboration,
>> no doubt, but I believe collaborative efforts can lead to desired outcomes.
>> Maybe we could suggest the best way to go about it to the MAG.
>> 
>> @Parminder, I just realized that you were the one I met during the
>> eCommerce Week. We should have gone to the coffee joint :)
>> 
>> Regards.
>> Peter
>> 
>> On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 8:33 PM <LB at lucabelli.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> I agree almost entirely with Lee's 2 cents with one notable exception.
>>> 
>>> While NetMundial Initiative miserably failed, the proposed
>>> "collaboration"
>>> between IGF and WEF will stay, once it is "approved" (I do not know by
>>> whom, as the MAG is a mere programme committee to which the IGF mandate
>>> does NOT give such authority, but this is another story)
>>> 
>>> The WEF-NMI partnership miserably failed because NMI (itself created
>>> basically by WEF and one other person) failed. On the contrary, the IGF
>>> will stay for at least the rest of the current mandate. Should any sort
>>> of
>>> cooperation be "approved", this will also last for - at least - the rest
>>> of
>>> the mandate. Given the current approval rate of WEF, this may not be an
>>> optimal choice...
>>> 
>>> IMHO, every IGF participant is totally free to participate and work with
>>> the WEF but equating this kind of personal engagement to othe fact that
>>> "Collaboration
>>> between the [IGF and WEF] is already underway" is a deliberate fallacy
>>> that
>>> sceptics may think only aims at present the institutional cooperation
>>> between IGF  and WEF as something already exisitng (which is not the
>>> case).
>>> 
>>> Furthermore, the same sceptics may also think that - as it happened at
>>> the
>>> time of the WEF-NMI fiasco - the proposed "collaboration" is exclusively
>>> in
>>> the interest of the WEF and the person promoting the collaboration on the
>>> other side.
>>> 
>>> Although one should aknowledge that at least, now, we are spared the
>>> "mother of all bottom-up initiatives" rhetoric, it would be interesting
>>> to
>>> know why is the MAG chair proposing this "coperation" with WEF and not
>>> with
>>> other entitie. And on what basis is this kind of special cooperation
>>> created knowing that the IGF mandate (clearly defined para 72 of the
>>> Tunis
>>> Agenda
>>> https://www.itu.int/net/wsis/documents/doc_multi.asp?lang=en&id=2267|0 )
>>> does not mention such possibility? And most importantly, why is the MAG
>>> (chair) self-attributing this new cooperation creation power rather than
>>> focusing on a the implementation of what the IGF mandate asks and that
>>> whoudl propably give more visibility and credibility to the entite IGF
>>> process i.e. "where appropriate, make recommendations." (see para 72.g of
>>> the Tunis Agenda)?
>>> 
>>> If MAG members started to read the IGF mandate or the contributions
>>> received during the IGF stock-taking consultations (or ideally both),
>>> they
>>> may find an ample range of ideas to strengthen the IGF other than WEF
>>> vassalage.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> *Luca Belli*, PhD
>>> Professor of Internet Governance and Regulation, FGV Rio de Janeiro Law
>>> School
>>> Chercheur Associé, Centre de Droit Public Comparé, Université Paris 2
>>> www.internet-governance.fgv.br
>>> @1lucabelli
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> 
>>> 
>>> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE*
>>> *This message, as well as any attached document, may contain information
>>> that is confidential and privileged and is intended only for the use of
>>> the
>>> addressee named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
>>> hereby notified that any disclosure, copying or distribution of this
>>> email
>>> or attached documents, or taking any action in reliance on the contents
>>> of
>>> this message or its attachments is strictly prohibited and may be
>>> unlawful.
>>> Please contact the sender if you believe you have received this email by
>>> mistake.*
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --------- Original Message ---------
>>> Subject: Re: [governance] Fwd: [IGFmaglist] IGF - World Economic Forum
>>> (WEF) Collaboration Discussion Document
>>> From: "Lee W McKnight" <lmcknigh at syr.edu>
>>> Date: 2/11/19 12:55 pm
>>> To: "Michael J. Oghia" <mike.oghia at gmail.com>, "arsenebaguma at gmail.com" <
>>> arsenebaguma at gmail.com>, "governance" <governance at lists.riseup.net>
>>> 
>>> My 2 cents,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> As Parminder notes there is a history here we cannot pretend never
>>> happened.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Still, being even more cynical than Parminder ( if that is possible ; )
>>> there is a reason WEF is circling back around IGF now - billionaires
>>> hoarding the world's wealth are not being treated as glamorously as they
>>> once were, and they don't like it.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> And - yes WEF (staffers & consultants) are quality folks and do produce
>>> useful and interesting data and reports, some of which could be
>>> fruitfully
>>> input into IGF discussions.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> So I see it like this, a small wef collaboration as humble contributors
>>> to
>>> - coalitions - proposing workshop topics  for future IGFs are welcome
>>> like
>>> anyone else.  Which they can do their own PR around if they want, once a
>>> particular panel/topic is accepted by MAG, or a dynamic coalition of
>>> mutual
>>> interest does something interesting.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> But a prospective Big WEF collaboration with IGF to trade enhanced PR for
>>> IGF with our collective help glossing over my cynical point , is just a
>>> cheap sell-out of the IGF mission.  And will not be credible or
>>> effective anyway given prior history, and current global inequality
>>> trends
>>> which WEF institutionally is stuck on wrong side of - without a change in
>>> its mission and approach, and which an IGF collaboration could not gloss
>>> over.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Maybe that's 3 cents, but to summarize, if WEFers can humble themselves
>>> sufficiently to pitch in and help out through IGF, great. But a
>>> Netmundial
>>> v2.0 WEF/IGF thing will inevitably flop like 1.0  and not be worth the
>>> bother, or taint.
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* governance-request at lists.riseup.net <
>>> governance-request at lists.riseup.net> on behalf of Arsène Tungali <
>>> governance at lists.riseup.net>
>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 11, 2019 10:25:36 AM
>>> *To:* Michael J. Oghia
>>> *Cc:* governance
>>> *Subject:* Re: [governance] Fwd: [IGFmaglist] IGF - World Economic Forum
>>> (WEF) Collaboration Discussion Document
>>> 
>>> Thanks, everyone for sharing your thoughts here, this thread is mostly
>>> for your information as well as to see what members think about this
>>> discussion on the MAG.
>>> 
>>> My impression so far is that many of the reactions here are mostly
>>> turning on the side of WHY the WEF?
>>> 
>>> I would like to suggest us to also think on the "WHY NOT"? Is there
>>> anything fundamental that is wrong with the WEF that would endanger
>>> any possible collaboration with the IGF? Can we think on that
>>> direction as well?
>>> 
>>> Are there other organizations you feel would be problematic should
>>> they seek any formal form of collaboration with the IGF?
>>> 
>>> 2019-02-11 17:03 UTC+02:00, Michael J. Oghia <mike.oghia at gmail.com>:
>>>> Hi Arsene,
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks for sharing this with us. In line with what has already been
>>>> said,
>>>> the WEF and its networks are free to participate in any part of the
>>>> IGF's
>>>> work (intersessional activities, organising workshops, etc.). Thus, I
>>> don't
>>>> see why there needs to be any kind of formal arrangement – and this
>>>> isn't
>>>> with regards to Davos, by the way. I'm thinking here about the reports
>>> and
>>>> such the WEF publishes. In general, I usually welcome calls for closer
>>> ties
>>>> and collaboration; however, I think that if the WEF wants to
>>>> collaborate
>>>> more closely with the IGF, they should see how their expertise,
>>>> contacts,
>>>> and donor networks can better support the IGF's existing mechanisms and
>>>> infrastructure. Even looking at the recommendations, I don't see any
>>>> that
>>>> are not just as applicable to any other stakeholders already
>>> participating
>>>> in the IGF, so why make any special exception?
>>>> 
>>>> Perhaps I'm naive, though.
>>>> 
>>>> Best,
>>>> -Michael
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 3:14 PM Arsène Tungali <
>>> governance at lists.riseup.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Meant to share this document here to have your thoughts about the
>>>>> collaboration between the IGF and WEF that MAG Chair is pushing for.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I would like to hear your thoughts on the questions mentionned at the
>>>>> last page of the document.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Arsene
>>>>> 
>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>> From: "Lynn St.Amour" <Lynn at internet-matters.org>
>>>>> Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2019 15:32:46 -0500
>>>>> Subject: [IGFmaglist] IGF - World Economic Forum (WEF) Collaboration
>>>>> Discussion Document
>>>>> To: IGF Maglist <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>
>>>>> Cc: Derek O'Halloran <Derek.OHalloran at weforum.org>
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dear MAG members,
>>>>> 
>>>>> please find below a document in support of a discussion on possible
>>>>> ways to increase collaboration between the IGF community and the World
>>>>> Economic Forum (WEF).  It builds on past collaborative efforts and is
>>>>> in support of Agenda item 4 in the IGF Open Consultation meeting:
>>>>> "Updates from related Internet Governance initiatives and processes,
>>>>> followed by open discussion on possible IGF 2019
>>>>> activities/collaboration”.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thank you to Derek O’Halloran and the WEF staff for their help
>>>>> creating this document.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Lynn
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> ------------------------
>>>>> **Arsène Tungali* <http://about.me/ArseneTungali>*
>>>>> Co-Founder & Executive Director, *Rudi international
>>>>> <http://www.rudiinternational.org>*,
>>>>> CEO,* Smart Services Sarl <https://www.smart-kitoko.com/>*,
>>>>> Tel: +243 993810967 (DRC)
>>>>> GPG: 523644A0
>>>>> 
>>>>> 2015 Mandela Washington Fellow
>>>>> <
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> (YALI) - ICANN GNSO Council Member
>>>>> <https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/gnso-council.htm> Member. UN IGF MAG
>>>>> <https://www.un.org/press/en/2018/pi2247.doc.htm> Member
>>>>> ---
>>>>> To unsubscribe: <mailto:igc-unsubscribe at lists.riseup.net
>>> <igc-unsubscribe at lists.riseup.net>>
>>>>> List help: <https://riseup.net/lists>
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> ------------------------
>>> **Arsène Tungali* <http://about.me/ArseneTungali>*
>>> Co-Founder & Executive Director, *Rudi international
>>> <http://www.rudiinternational.org>*,
>>> CEO,* Smart Services Sarl <https://www.smart-kitoko.com/>*,
>>> Tel: +243 993810967 (DRC)
>>> GPG: 523644A0
>>> 
>>> 2015 Mandela Washington Fellow
>>> <
>>> 
>>> http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> (YALI) - ICANN GNSO Council Member
>>> <https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/gnso-council.htm> Member. UN IGF MAG
>>> <https://www.un.org/press/en/2018/pi2247.doc.htm> Member
>>> --- To unsubscribe: <mailto:igc-unsubscribe at lists.riseup.net> List help:
>>> <
>>> https://riseup.net/lists>
>>> 
>>> ---
>>> To unsubscribe: <mailto:igc-unsubscribe at lists.riseup.net>
>>> List help: <https://riseup.net/lists>
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> <https://about.me/petertaiwoakinremi?promo=email_sig&utm_source=product&utm_medium=email_sig&utm_campaign=gmail_api&utm_content=thumb>
>> Peter Taiwo Akinremi
>> about.me/petertaiwoakinremi
>> <https://about.me/petertaiwoakinremi?promo=email_sig&utm_source=product&utm_medium=email_sig&utm_campaign=gmail_api&utm_content=thumb>
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> ------------------------
> **Arsène Tungali* <http://about.me/ArseneTungali>*
> Co-Founder & Executive Director, *Rudi international
> <http://www.rudiinternational.org>*,
> CEO,* Smart Services Sarl <https://www.smart-kitoko.com/>*,
> Tel: +243 993810967 (DRC)
> GPG: 523644A0
> 
> 2015 Mandela Washington Fellow
> <
> http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html>
> 
> (YALI) - ICANN GNSO Council Member
> <https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/gnso-council.htm> Member. UN IGF MAG
> <https://www.un.org/press/en/2018/pi2247.doc.htm> Member
> ---
> To unsubscribe: <mailto:igc-unsubscribe at lists.riseup.net>
> List help: <https://riseup.net/lists>