[governance] Statement by IGC on Huang Qi's sentencing

Sun Aug 4 16:56:17 EDT 2019

First, appreciation to Sala, for her (stalwart) efforts.

To the point:  Norbert’s call – first – to settle on an objective is, I believe, fundamental.  The saying is clear:  “when you don’t know where you are going, any road will take you there ...”

Looking forward to that discussion, as the first, and next, step.

David

> On Aug 4, 2019, at 3:53 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro (via governance Mailing List) <governance at lists.riseup.net> wrote:
> 
> Most countries globally, China, US etc have varying degrees of human rights violations all across the world. Western/Eastern Europe, South America, Africa, Oceania are not exempt from this.
> 
> We are in agreement to have different text and not to associate with any government, this is not an anti China position. Those who know me personally will know I love the Chinese and China as I love all other nations.
> 
> The focus here is Huang Qi, a digital activist who has been imprisoned and historically in former imprisonment, he has been denied medical treatment. If you look at the current revised text, there are references for his current situation.
> 
> So I would encourage everyone to suggest draft text. To make things easier as opposed to scrolling through the thread, Imran has put the current revised draft in the etherpad.
> 
> Again, this is merely a draft and there is no current call for consensus. That would happen once we are all relatively ok with the draft. For now, I would encourage us to move swiftly and encourage and suggest draft text.
> 
> The other purpose in initiating this is to demonstrate to newer subscribers that there is a process in which people initiate drafting of statements before the IGC releases this to any forum. Even if the statement never reaches consensus, then at least we would have demonstrated the process.
> 
> Going to fly to Heathrow from Los Angeles in several hours.
> 
> Sala
> 
> On Sun, 4 Aug 2019, 8:46 pm Norbert Bollow, <nb at bollow.ch <mailto:nb at bollow.ch>> wrote:
> I'm strongly in agreement with Ian where he has written: "It is totally
> inappropriate to use a US Government text, and then later suggest most
> of it be adopted as final copy, for a civil society statement."
> 
> And in fact I think that if there is going to be an IGC statement right
> now, we must take another step back and not just redraft the statement,
> but consider what we want to achieve (which could be more than one
> goal, and it doesn't need to be the same goal for everyone, as long as
> those goals are broadly ok among IGC members), and then figure out how
> those goals can be credibly advanced. And only then start drafting one
> or more statements.
> 
> Although the originally proposed statement expressed sentiments that in
> themselves I would have been quite willing to endorse, now we are at a
> point where any statement which we may issue is (both in actual fact
> and in the perception of anyone who gets informed about what has taken
> place on this publicly-archived mailing list) not only a reaction to
> China's deplorable action, but also a reaction to a US government
> statement. A US government statement which I would consider quite
> hypocritical in view of the US government's attempts to persecute
> whistleblowers who have revealed human rights violations committed by
> the US. Even the excuse used by the Chinese government ("leaking state
> secrets") is eerily similar to what Chelsea Manning (who lost her
> pension rights and was sentenced to 35 years in prison, then released
> early —on the basis of a presidential pardon— after a little under
> seven years of imprisonment), Julian Assange and Edward Snowden have
> been accused of by the US.
> 
> The US government statement is not truly about insisting that the human
> right to free speech must be safeguarded for whistleblowers who publicly
> expose human rights violations. If that were now truly a US government
> view, then they would also publicly change their stance in relation to
> whistleblowers who expose human rights violations committed by the US.
> 
> No, that US government statement is part of something else: A process
> of geopolitical struggle for soft power, which is part of a global
> geopolitical and economic power struggle that has been going on for a
> long time.
> 
> Whether we like it or not, if we were to now issue a statement which
> criticizes China without also criticizing the US, then we would
> thereby not only take a side in that geopolitical struggle. We would
> do so in a way through which we would become complicit in the US
> government's hypocrisy.
> 
> Greetings,
> Norbert
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, 04 Aug 2019 05:44:31 +0000
> "ian.peter at ianpeter.com <mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com>" <ian.peter at ianpeter.com <mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com>> wrote:
> 
> > To be absolutely precise, Sala.
> > 
> > I want to replace everything. It is totally inappropriate to use a US 
> > Government text, and then later suggest most of it be adopted as
> > final copy, for a civil society statement.
> > 
> > If someone wants to come up with a fresh statement that it not 
> > plagiarising US government statements, I will be happy to look and 
> > comment. But as regards this process and discussion, I am sorry, but
> > I cannot support this as a basis for a civil society statement.
> > 
> > Ian
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------ Original Message ------
> > From: "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" <governance at lists.riseup.net <mailto:governance at lists.riseup.net>>
> > To: "Ian Peter" <ian.peter at ianpeter.com <mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com>>
> > Cc: "farzaneh badii" <farzaneh.badii at gmail.com <mailto:farzaneh.badii at gmail.com>>; "David Allen" 
> > <David_Allen_AB63 at post.harvard.edu <mailto:David_Allen_AB63 at post.harvard.edu>>; "Marie Georges" 
> > <ma.georges at orange.fr <mailto:ma.georges at orange.fr>>; "Norbert Bollow" <nb at bollow.ch <mailto:nb at bollow.ch>>; "governance" 
> > <governance at lists.riseup.net <mailto:governance at lists.riseup.net>>
> > Sent: 4/08/2019 3:24:18 PM
> > Subject: Re: [governance] Statement by IGC on Huan Qi's sentencing
> > 
> > >Your suggested draft text was incorporated into the text and if you
> > >are still after further revisions, be precise in what specifically
> > >you want to replace.
> > >
> > >On Sun, 4 Aug 2019, 5:05 am ian.peter at ianpeter.com <mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com>, 
> > ><ian.peter at ianpeter.com <mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com>> wrote:  
> > >>Oh I am glad you noticed that Farzaneh - our credibility for having 
> > >>independent inputs is ruined if we either deliberately or
> > >>accidentally adopt such statements which fully mimic any government.
> > >>
> > >>Here is the wording of the US statement - more than just the
> > >>opening paragraph, whole sections of our proposed wording are
> > >>identical. WTF.....
> > >>
> > >>"The United States is deeply concerned by the sentencing of online 
> > >>activist Huang Qi to 12 years in prison. Huang has been honored 
> > >>multiple times by Reporters Without Borders for his courage in 
> > >>exposing corruption and human rights violations in China through
> > >>his website, 64 Tianwang.
> > >>
> > >>The imprisonment of Huang Qi underscores China’s continued
> > >>repression of human rights and fundamental freedoms, including free
> > >>speech.  We urge the Chinese government to uphold its international
> > >>commitments related to fair trial guarantees and the rule of law.
> > >>We call on China to immediately release Mr. Huang, and to allow him
> > >>access to his family, medical care, and legal counsel as soon as
> > >>possible. We also call on China to end undue restrictions on the
> > >>freedom of movement of his family and those who assisted him."
> > >>
> > >>So I oppose repitition of any of these sentences or phrases. We can 
> > >>echo the sentiments if we are in agreement with them, but our 
> > >>statement must be our statement, not a copy of that of any 
> > >>government..
> > >>
> > >>Ian Peter
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>------ Original Message ------
> > >>From: "farzaneh badii" <governance at lists.riseup.net <mailto:governance at lists.riseup.net>>
> > >>To: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com <mailto:salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com>
> > >>Cc: "David Allen" <david_allen_ab63 at post.harvard.edu <mailto:david_allen_ab63 at post.harvard.edu>>; "Marie
> > >>Georges" <ma.georges at orange.fr <mailto:ma.georges at orange.fr>>; "Norbert Bollow" <nb at bollow.ch <mailto:nb at bollow.ch>>;
> > >>"governance" <governance at lists.riseup.net <mailto:governance at lists.riseup.net>>;
> > >>"ian.peter at ianpeter.com <mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com>" <ian.peter at ianpeter.com <mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com>>
> > >>Sent: 4/08/2019 12:14:43 PM
> > >>Subject: Re: [governance] Statement by IGC on Huan Qi's sentencing
> > >>  
> > >>>The first paragraph is almost a copy paste of the US  statement.
> > >>>We can't just work on a "draft" that someone else has issued
> > >>>already. This needs to be redrafted from scratch should we want to
> > >>>issue a statement.
> > >>>
> > >>>On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 9:33 PM "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" 
> > >>><governance at lists.riseup.net <mailto:governance at lists.riseup.net>> wrote:  
> > >>>>Dear All,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>This revised draft captures some of Chaitanya and Ian's input and 
> > >>>>suggested edits. Please review and comment.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Revised Draft 4th August, 2019
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Proposed Draft
> > >>>>
> > >>>>The Civil Society Internet Governance Caucus is deeply concerned
> > >>>>by the sentencing of online activist Huang Qi to 12 years in
> > >>>>prison. Huang has been honoured multiple times by Reporters
> > >>>>Without Borders for his courage in exposing corruption and human
> > >>>>rights violations in China through his website, 64 Tianwang.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>  Huang Qi has greatly strengthened China as a country by
> > >>>> bringing to 
> > >>>>the foreground these good governance issues including but not 
> > >>>>limited to corruption & human rights. It is our view that Huang
> > >>>>Qi should be honoured as a strong contributor to society.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>We urge the Chinese government to uphold its international 
> > >>>>commitments related to fair trial guarantees and the rule of
> > >>>>law. We call on China to immediately release Mr. Huang, and to
> > >>>>allow him access to his family, medical care, and legal counsel
> > >>>>as soon as possible.  We also call on China to end undue
> > >>>>restrictions on the freedom of movement of his family and those
> > >>>>who assisted him.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>We note that China is a member of the United Nations Human Rights 
> > >>>>Council this year. The Civil Society Internet Governance Caucus 
> > >>>>calls on China to aspire to subscribe to the Charter of the
> > >>>>Internet Rights and Principles which was developed by the Dynamic
> > >>>>Coalition on Internet Rights and Principles within the Internet
> > >>>>Governance Forum and is available on the OHCHR website.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>---
> > >>>>To unsubscribe: <mailto:igc-unsubscribe at lists.riseup.net <mailto:igc-unsubscribe at lists.riseup.net>>
> > >>>>List help: <https://riseup.net/lists <https://riseup.net/lists>>  
> > >>>--
> > >>>Farzaneh  
> 
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