[governance] Statement by IGC on Huang Qi's sentencing

[Norbert Bollow]

I'm strongly in agreement with Ian where he has written: "It is totally
inappropriate to use a US Government text, and then later suggest most
of it be adopted as final copy, for a civil society statement."

And in fact I think that if there is going to be an IGC statement right
now, we must take another step back and not just redraft the statement,
but consider what we want to achieve (which could be more than one
goal, and it doesn't need to be the same goal for everyone, as long as
those goals are broadly ok among IGC members), and then figure out how
those goals can be credibly advanced. And only then start drafting one
or more statements.

Although the originally proposed statement expressed sentiments that in
themselves I would have been quite willing to endorse, now we are at a
point where any statement which we may issue is (both in actual fact
and in the perception of anyone who gets informed about what has taken
place on this publicly-archived mailing list) not only a reaction to
China's deplorable action, but also a reaction to a US government
statement. A US government statement which I would consider quite
hypocritical in view of the US government's attempts to persecute
whistleblowers who have revealed human rights violations committed by
the US. Even the excuse used by the Chinese government ("leaking state
secrets") is eerily similar to what Chelsea Manning (who lost her
pension rights and was sentenced to 35 years in prison, then released
early —on the basis of a presidential pardon— after a little under
seven years of imprisonment), Julian Assange and Edward Snowden have
been accused of by the US.

The US government statement is not truly about insisting that the human
right to free speech must be safeguarded for whistleblowers who publicly
expose human rights violations. If that were now truly a US government
view, then they would also publicly change their stance in relation to
whistleblowers who expose human rights violations committed by the US.

No, that US government statement is part of something else: A process
of geopolitical struggle for soft power, which is part of a global
geopolitical and economic power struggle that has been going on for a
long time.

Whether we like it or not, if we were to now issue a statement which
criticizes China without also criticizing the US, then we would
thereby not only take a side in that geopolitical struggle. We would
do so in a way through which we would become complicit in the US
government's hypocrisy.

Greetings,
Norbert



On Sun, 04 Aug 2019 05:44:31 +0000
"ian.peter at ianpeter.com" <ian.peter at ianpeter.com> wrote:

> To be absolutely precise, Sala.
> 
> I want to replace everything. It is totally inappropriate to use a US 
> Government text, and then later suggest most of it be adopted as
> final copy, for a civil society statement.
> 
> If someone wants to come up with a fresh statement that it not 
> plagiarising US government statements, I will be happy to look and 
> comment. But as regards this process and discussion, I am sorry, but
> I cannot support this as a basis for a civil society statement.
> 
> Ian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" <governance at lists.riseup.net>
> To: "Ian Peter" <ian.peter at ianpeter.com>
> Cc: "farzaneh badii" <farzaneh.badii at gmail.com>; "David Allen" 
> <David_Allen_AB63 at post.harvard.edu>; "Marie Georges" 
> <ma.georges at orange.fr>; "Norbert Bollow" <nb at bollow.ch>; "governance" 
> <governance at lists.riseup.net>
> Sent: 4/08/2019 3:24:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [governance] Statement by IGC on Huan Qi's sentencing
> 
> >Your suggested draft text was incorporated into the text and if you
> >are still after further revisions, be precise in what specifically
> >you want to replace.
> >
> >On Sun, 4 Aug 2019, 5:05 am ian.peter at ianpeter.com, 
> ><ian.peter at ianpeter.com> wrote:  
> >>Oh I am glad you noticed that Farzaneh - our credibility for having 
> >>independent inputs is ruined if we either deliberately or
> >>accidentally adopt such statements which fully mimic any government.
> >>
> >>Here is the wording of the US statement - more than just the
> >>opening paragraph, whole sections of our proposed wording are
> >>identical. WTF.....
> >>
> >>"The United States is deeply concerned by the sentencing of online 
> >>activist Huang Qi to 12 years in prison. Huang has been honored 
> >>multiple times by Reporters Without Borders for his courage in 
> >>exposing corruption and human rights violations in China through
> >>his website, 64 Tianwang.
> >>
> >>The imprisonment of Huang Qi underscores China’s continued
> >>repression of human rights and fundamental freedoms, including free
> >>speech.  We urge the Chinese government to uphold its international
> >>commitments related to fair trial guarantees and the rule of law.
> >>We call on China to immediately release Mr. Huang, and to allow him
> >>access to his family, medical care, and legal counsel as soon as
> >>possible. We also call on China to end undue restrictions on the
> >>freedom of movement of his family and those who assisted him."
> >>
> >>So I oppose repitition of any of these sentences or phrases. We can 
> >>echo the sentiments if we are in agreement with them, but our 
> >>statement must be our statement, not a copy of that of any 
> >>government..
> >>
> >>Ian Peter
> >>
> >>
> >>------ Original Message ------
> >>From: "farzaneh badii" <governance at lists.riseup.net>
> >>To: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com
> >>Cc: "David Allen" <david_allen_ab63 at post.harvard.edu>; "Marie
> >>Georges" <ma.georges at orange.fr>; "Norbert Bollow" <nb at bollow.ch>;
> >>"governance" <governance at lists.riseup.net>;
> >>"ian.peter at ianpeter.com" <ian.peter at ianpeter.com>
> >>Sent: 4/08/2019 12:14:43 PM
> >>Subject: Re: [governance] Statement by IGC on Huan Qi's sentencing
> >>  
> >>>The first paragraph is almost a copy paste of the US  statement.
> >>>We can't just work on a "draft" that someone else has issued
> >>>already. This needs to be redrafted from scratch should we want to
> >>>issue a statement.
> >>>
> >>>On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 9:33 PM "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" 
> >>><governance at lists.riseup.net> wrote:  
> >>>>Dear All,
> >>>>
> >>>>This revised draft captures some of Chaitanya and Ian's input and 
> >>>>suggested edits. Please review and comment.
> >>>>
> >>>>Revised Draft 4th August, 2019
> >>>>
> >>>>Proposed Draft
> >>>>
> >>>>The Civil Society Internet Governance Caucus is deeply concerned
> >>>>by the sentencing of online activist Huang Qi to 12 years in
> >>>>prison. Huang has been honoured multiple times by Reporters
> >>>>Without Borders for his courage in exposing corruption and human
> >>>>rights violations in China through his website, 64 Tianwang.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>  Huang Qi has greatly strengthened China as a country by
> >>>> bringing to 
> >>>>the foreground these good governance issues including but not 
> >>>>limited to corruption & human rights. It is our view that Huang
> >>>>Qi should be honoured as a strong contributor to society.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>We urge the Chinese government to uphold its international 
> >>>>commitments related to fair trial guarantees and the rule of
> >>>>law. We call on China to immediately release Mr. Huang, and to
> >>>>allow him access to his family, medical care, and legal counsel
> >>>>as soon as possible.  We also call on China to end undue
> >>>>restrictions on the freedom of movement of his family and those
> >>>>who assisted him.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>We note that China is a member of the United Nations Human Rights 
> >>>>Council this year. The Civil Society Internet Governance Caucus 
> >>>>calls on China to aspire to subscribe to the Charter of the
> >>>>Internet Rights and Principles which was developed by the Dynamic
> >>>>Coalition on Internet Rights and Principles within the Internet
> >>>>Governance Forum and is available on the OHCHR website.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>---
> >>>>To unsubscribe: <mailto:igc-unsubscribe at lists.riseup.net>
> >>>>List help: <https://riseup.net/lists>  
> >>>--
> >>>Farzaneh