[governance] On WSIS+10 (was Re: Why?)
Michael Gurstein
gurstein at gmail.com
Fri May 22 08:47:27 EDT 2015
A few comments inline...
-----Original Message-----
From: Nick Ashton-Hart [mailto:nashton at consensus.pro]
Sent: May 22, 2015 1:20 PM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Michael Gurstein
Cc: Bertrand de LA CHAPELLE; parminder; Wolfgang Kleinwächter
Subject: Re: [governance] On WSIS+10 (was Re: Why?)
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I think there is a lot of merit to this argument, but I would suggest a =
few modifications:
* When WSIS was concluded there was little to no discussion of matters =
Internet in the various policy organs of the international system.=20
* WSIS was concluded alongside the MDGs but without interprocess links =
because the development community did not have it as a priority - they =
were, and are, more concerned with the big ticket items of =
infrastructure, food, sanitation, education, health etc.=20
[MG] true
* There wasn't a huge amount of money being spent on connectivity =
outside of OECD countries especially in the developing world, nor was =
the Internet yet a large impact across traditional industries, so no big =
focus on it from an economic standpoint, either.
[MG] true
* Development agencies therefore saw the idea of spending on ICTs =
largely as a defocus from their traditional activities, and the =
demandeurs from a political standpoint of development assistance were =
not prioritising ICTs, either.=20
[MG] Only partially true... by the time of WSIS Tunis the World Bank, the
UNDP and many of the bilaterals were already on the ICT bandwagon at least
to some degree...
* Looked at differently and taking into account the above the focus on =
the data revolution is understandable and not bizarre: the NY community =
has at least realised that ICTs can help determine how effectively =
development priorities have or are being met (as a measuring device); we =
just need them to take the next step and recognise that ICTs are =
integral to successfully delivering development.=20
[MG] a matter of opinion... focusing on the descriptors rather than what is
being described is not particularly useful (and to a considerable degree
profoundly beside the point) as the only significant ICT element in the MDGs
in the third decade of the ICT revolution...
Going forward I would like to see a focus on ICTs improving people's =
actual lives in a concrete sense, and the governance and social justice =
element being kept out of that so we don't see another decade of endless =
debate about sovereignty and the role of the state in society (which is =
frankly what is really behind all of the government-to-government IG =
disputes.
[MG] okay but the question was specifically referring to WSIS +10 and it is
to my mind very difficult to remove issues of governance (policy) and values
(social justice) from initiatives towards "improving people's lives"
Having another decade of defocus from actual development would =
be an enormous tragedy IMO.
[MG] agree
Ensuring a constructive link from the WSIS =
action lines to successful implementation of the MDGs should be at the =
cornerstone of the conclusion of the WSIS+10 process.
[MG] completely agree
Frankly, the =
entire international system is tuning itself to its role in the MDGs and =
WSIS should not be exempt from that.=20
[MG] interesting point since I'm assuming that you are referring to the
multilateral system as "the international system"... I think one message
that current discussions of global (Internet) Governance has made extremely
clear is that when we now consider the "international system" we need to go
rather beyond the multilaterals to include the variety of new "stakeholders"
and figuring out what role they can play in initiatives such as what we are
discussing.
M
On 22 May 2015, at 11:12, Michael Gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:
> My reading of WSIS is that the original intention was to explore how =
the benefits of this marvellous new technology might be shared globally =
and particularly through the application of ICTs to the =
issues/opportunities for economic and social development particularly in =
Less Developed Countries. The linking of the governance aspects with the =
developmental/social justice aspects was to ensure that however the =
Internet was to be =93governed=94 it would be such as to ensure the =
means for the widest possible dispersal of benefits.
> =20
> There was however a splitting of emphases in WSIS with an ultimate =
emphasis on =93governance=94 at the expense of =93development=94 as was =
strongly promoted by the Developed Countries (and those elements of =
Civil Society which chose to focus on a free speech agenda rather than a =
social justice agenda). This ensured that the original objectives for =
=93governance=94 of the Internet would be lost to be replaced initially =
by essentially technical issues related to =93governance=94 on the one =
side and ICT for Development initiatives undertaken (and thus doomed) by =
proceeding without an integration into a broad based and supportive =
policy framework, on the other. The failure of the UN (and development =
agencies and others) to support a role for grassroots users and ICT =
practitioners in the WSIS process significantly reduced the leverage =
which the =93developmental (and social justice) agenda=94 might have had =
and directly contributed to this unfortunate result.
> =20
> The subsequent development of parallel but highly unequal tracks for =
=93governance=94 and for =93development/social justice=94 has allowed =
the =93development=94 agenda to slip more or less off the radar for the =
multilaterals and the bilaterals even while the opportunities and risks =
for the =93development=94 agenda have been accelerating. The trivial =
way in which =93development=94 is addressed at the IGF is one =
manifestation of this as is the formulaic and ritualistic (and =
essentially out of touch) way in which the =93developmental=94 side has =
been dealt with in the various UNESCO and ITU and other UN forums up to =
and including the WSIS +10 process and the somewhat bizarre focussing on =
the =93Data Revolution=94 (the =93revolution=94 is of course about a lot =
more than simply =93data=94) in the MDG/SDG processes.
> =20
> So to answer your question Bertrand if I had my druthers (and to be a =
bit more inclusive of what I would like to =93unite=94) I would like to =
see a WSIS +10 which dealt with the reality of ICTs/the Internet in the =
context of social justice and here I would include not simply LDC=92s =
but the increasing numbers of those being =93excluded=94 in Developed =
Countries as well=97specifically I would have it (and with the active =
involvement and promotion by CS) address issues of growing ICT/Internet =
based economic inequality, social exclusion, rural de-stabilization, =
youth unemployment and precarious work, linguistic and cultural =
homogenization, ICT induced job destruction, and mass surveillance among =
others. I would want to see the WSIS +10 process reintegrate the =
governance and development/social justice elements to work towards =
democratic and decentralized global (Internet) governance and policy =
mechanisms sufficient to address these issues.
> =20
> Mike
> =20
> From: Bertrand de La Chapelle [mailto:bdelachapelle at gmail.com]=20
> Sent: May 21, 2015 4:41 PM
> To: parminder
> Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Michael Gurstein; Kleinw=E4chter, =
Wolfgang
> Subject: Re: [governance] On WSIS+10 (was Re: Why?)
> =20
> Dear Parminder,
> =20
> I can agree with several of the points you make and your description =
of the sequence of events is quite accurate. Some comments however and a =
question/proposal in the end that is the most important in my view.
> =20
> Comments
> =20
> I personally would not have been opposed to a full-fledged WSIS review =
(including potentially a summit level), provided however that it would =
have implemented additional improvement to the participation scheme =
achieved ten years ago.=20
> =20
> Actually, the preparatory meetings organized by Unesco in 2013 and ITU =
in 2014 were interesting experiments in terms of more participatory =
processes and drafting. But it did not seem to have impacted the minds =
of the New York representatives.=20
> =20
> As you rightly point out, in the discussions last year at the UNGA, =
the positions among governments were roughly:
> - on the one hand those who put the emphasis on multi-stakeholder =
participation and traditionally did not want a heads of state type of =
event nor a long preparatory process (for both good and bad reasons), =
who also favored a meeting in Geneva
> - on the other hand, as you said, "the more authoritarian countries =
among the G 77 also preferred it to move to New York, with much less =
multi stakeholder participation than what would have happened in Geneva, =
[and] wanted it to be summit level meeting"
> =20
> I have not seen the position of the G77 that you mention and confess I =
did not follow this very closely. But as could be expected in pure =
intergovernmental discussions (as is the case in the UNGA) in the =
absence of a strong desire by all to reach an agreement, this divergence =
of views was only overcome with the sort of half-baked solution that we =
are now seeing (bits and pieces of each position).=20
> =20
> I do agree that it deprives everyone of an opportunity to have a =
serious review and that was the initial gist of my post to Michael: I do =
not expect much from a mere resolution adopted in a two-day meeting in =
New York with little if any involvement of non-governmental actors in =
the preparation. At best it will reconduct the IGF with little if any =
improvements.
> =20
> Having participated for four years in the CSTD exercise every year, I =
can testify that none of the resolutions that we so painstakingly =
drafted in late night sessions contained anything more than copy and =
paste of the favorite sections of the various WSIS documents. I did not =
expect the intergovernmental discussions in New York about the WSIS+10 =
to produce anything significant - and I unfortunately was right. =20
> =20
> But isn't it unfair to put the blame on civil society (or part of it) =
for this outcome, as you seem to imply? After all, it did not have a say =
in the process. I suppose in addition that it was itself split on the =
right thing to do, which would have made it hard to launch a structured =
and strong campaign.=20
> =20
> It is a bit the same as the debate on who has weakened the IGF? Is it =
the western countries that strongly refused to move towards =
recommendations (in part true - although they provided 100% of its =
funding)? Is it the more radical developing countries governments who =
somehow progressively stopped coming as a way to reduce its legitimacy =
(also true). Or is it the throttling by UN DESA which made it hard to =
receive funds, did not replace the Chair and maintained just a skeleton =
of a secretariat that prevented anything more than the organization of =
the annual even to be done (very much so).=20
> =20
> In the case of the WSIS+10, the governments in the UNGA - not civil =
society - are the ones to blame for being unable to agree on anything =
coherent regarding the mere format to discuss these very important =
issues. And this does not bode well for any likelihood of progress on =
substance, hence the legitimate caution by many regarding the role that =
the UN can play in that regard. An unfortunate self-reinforcing feedback =
loop.=20
> =20
> We'll see what happens.=20
> =20
> Question/proposal
> =20
> To end on a positive and more forward-looking note, what would be YOUR =
hopes for the WSIS+10 Review meeting and resolution? What do you think =
it can achieve? What could be civil society contribution to the shaping =
of the agenda and document? Suggestions welcome, as it might be a useful =
thread on this list - provided we focus on what unites rather than what =
divides.=20
> =20
> Best
> =20
> Bertrand
> =20
> PS: As a matter of clarification, I do not sit on the ICANN Board =
since the end of 2013 (the Buenos Aires meeting) and therefore have no =
association with the positions that it has taken since then on the =
issues at stake here.=20
>=20
> "Le plus beau m=E9tier des hommes, c'est d'unir les hommes", Antoine =
de Saint Exup=E9ry
> ("There is no greater mission for humans than uniting humans")
> BERTRAND DE LA CHAPELLE
> Internet & Jurisdiction Project | Director
> email bdelachapelle at internetjurisdiction.net
> email bdelachapelle at gmail.com
> twitter @IJurisdiction | @bdelachapelle
> mobile +33 (0)6 11 88 33 32
> www.internetjurisdiction.net
> <image001.jpg>
> =20
> On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 2:50 PM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> =
wrote:
> =20
>=20
> On Tuesday 19 May 2015 11:57 PM, Bertrand de La Chapelle wrote:
> Michael,
> =20
> I am not sure I see what you mean below by "working to undermine and =
diminish the significance of the WSIS+10"?=20
> =20
> What surely could undermine the WSIS+10 process is that it will most =
likely be less open to non-state actors - and civil society in =
particular - than the WSIS itself 10 years ago. Unless things have =
changed, and according to the excellent summary by APC:=20
> =20
> the review is going to be "a two-day high-level meeting of the General =
Assembly". The document will be prepared by "an intergovernmental =
negotiation process, which will include preparatory meetings, resulting =
in an intergovernmentally agreed outcome document, for adoption at the =
high-level meeting of the General Assembly".
>=20
> Bertrand
>=20
> What Michael says above relates to how we reached the state of affair =
described in the cited section from APC's summary.
>=20
> I am sure you know how we reached the situation whereby=20
>=20
> "
> the review is going to be "a two-day high-level meeting of the General =
Assembly". The document will be prepared by "an intergovernmental =
negotiation process, which will include preparatory meetings, resulting =
in an intergovernmentally agreed outcome document, for adoption at the =
high-level meeting of the General Assembly". "
>=20
> Over many months last year, and the year before, G 77 sought a full =
fledged WSIS plus 10 summit on the same style as the original WSIS, the =
extended preparatory meetings and all.... Developed countries, under the =
customary US leadership, simply refused. Some major NGOs that otherwise =
follow this process closely were either silent or actually supporting =
the developed country position in this stand off, and to that extent =
opposing the position of a full fledged WSIS summit, original WSIS style =
(which would have then taken place in Geneva, with multistakeholder =
participation at least at the same level as was in the original WSIS). =
When this was happening, I raised the issue a few times on these list =
but got no response. It is really strange in the circumstances to now =
rue that this has happened.=20
>=20
> It is a fact that the more authoritarian countries among the G 77 also =
preferred it to move to New York, with much less multi stakeholder =
participation than what would have happened in Geneva, even though they =
wanted it to be summit level meeting. However, G 77 as a group was ready =
to do it fully original WSIS style, with the leadership for this =
position taken by the more democratic developing countries. However, =
this position found no support from civil society and tech groups (ISOC) =
who otherwise were closely following the process, and there were in fact =
positions articulated that expressed some kinds of 'fear' about a =
possible full-fledged summit, with these positions largely aligning with =
developed country positions.=20
>=20
> That is what brought us were we are. Lets not escape the =
responsibility.=20
>=20
> Further, as I said in my earlier email, the CEO of ICANN - an =
organisation on whose board both you and Wolfgang sit - openly touted =
Net Mundial Initiative as something needed to stop governments from =
doing what they would in default (of NMI) do through the WSIS and its =
preparatory process. With this kind of sentiment, publicly expressed, it =
is clear what ICANN and others of the dominant IG cohort think of the =
WSIS process....
>=20
> Quoting Fadi on why Net Mundial is needed - =
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/12/12/im_begging_you_to_join_netmundial_=
initiative_gets_desperate/?page=3D2
>=20
> "We need to make sure that next June (referring to the start of WSIS =
prep process) we don't have delegation after delegation going to UNGA =
[the United Nations General Assembly] saying there are no solutions to =
these issues.
>=20
> And then now to express regret about the health of the WSIS process !?
>=20
>=20
> =20
> For sure, modalities for consultation of relevant WSIS stakeholders =
are supposed to be put in place, but there is a big question mark in =
that regard at the moment, isn't it?
> =20
> In that context, maybe the motto should be: the real WSIS+10 is the =
IGF 2015. Why don't we make it so?
>=20
> Yes, that kind of sentiment is and was precisely the problem which led =
to where we stand today. But then lets not try to have our cake and eat =
it too ...=20
>=20
> parminder=20
>=20
> =20
> Best
> =20
> Bertrand
>=20
> "Le plus beau m=E9tier des hommes, c'est d'unir les hommes", Antoine =
de Saint Exup=E9ry
> ("There is no greater mission for humans than uniting humans")
> =20
> On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 5:48 PM, Michael Gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com> =
wrote:
> Wolfgang, I must say that I find your statement below exceedingly odd =
in
> that you seem to have ignored the manner in which a number of the =
leading
> "civil society" organizations have been working alongside their USG =
and UKG
> (and other) allies to undermine and diminish the significance of the =
WSIS
> +10 process.
>=20
> M
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
> [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of =
"Kleinw=E4chter,
> Wolfgang"
> Sent: May 19, 2015 3:01 PM
> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; parminder; David Cake
> Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; BestBitsList; =
Forum at Justnetcoalition. Org
> Subject: [governance] Why?
>=20
> Sorry for intervening: It is really a pitty that the discussion on =
this list
> is occupied by hairsplitting, "I told you but you do not listen" and =
"I am
> right and you are wrong". Why this civil society network, which once =
played
> an important role in policy development in the WSIS process, is unable =
to
> look forward where the real challenges are with the forthcoming WSIS =
10+
> processes and concentrate on substance and how to reach rough =
consensus? Why
> people do not respect anymore what Jon Postel has told us a quarter of =
a
> century ago in his robustness princple: "Be conservative in what you =
send,
> be liberal in what you accept". Why they do not remember the language =
of the
> CS WSIS Geneva Declaration from 2003?
>=20
> The Bali split (2013) has obviously long shadows and old warriors have
> overtaken the discussion.
>=20
> My hope is that the WSIS 10++ perspective will encourage a new =
generation of
> younger civil society people who feel more committed to the substance =
of
> real civil society activities and do not waste the limited resources =
and
> energies for infighting. And do not forget: The WGIG proposal for a
> multistakeholder approach in Internet Governance (2005) was a =
compromise
> between "governmental leadership" (China) and private sector =
leadership
> (USA)and it opened the door for civil society to become an inclusive =
part of
> the process. This was a boig achievement of that time and an =
opportunity. It
> is now up to the next generation of civil society activists to build =
on this
> oppportunity. It would be a big shame if this would be destroyed.
>=20
> Wolfgang
>=20
> =20
> =20
> =20
>=20
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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> To be removed from the list, visit:
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> =20
> For all other list information and functions, see:
> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> http://www.igcaucus.org/
> =20
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> =20
> =20
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>=20
> For all other list information and functions, see:
> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> http://www.igcaucus.org/
>=20
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
--Apple-Mail=_1D259986-7B35-4727-AE14-796B6AAF7A0D
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
charset=windows-1252
<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">I =
think there is a lot of merit to this argument, but I would suggest a =
few modifications:<div><br></div><div>* When WSIS was concluded there =
was little to no discussion of matters Internet in the various policy =
organs of the international system. </div><div>* WSIS was concluded =
alongside the MDGs but without interprocess links because the =
development community did not have it as a priority - they were, and =
are, more concerned with the big ticket items of infrastructure, food, =
sanitation, education, health etc. </div><div>* There wasn't a huge =
amount of money being spent on connectivity outside of OECD countries =
especially in the developing world, nor was the Internet yet a large =
impact across traditional industries, so no big focus on it from an =
economic standpoint, either.</div><div>* Development agencies therefore =
saw the idea of spending on ICTs largely as a defocus from their =
traditional activities, and the demandeurs from a political standpoint =
of development assistance were not prioritising ICTs, =
either. </div><div>* Looked at differently and taking into account =
the above the focus on the data revolution is understandable and not =
bizarre: the NY community has at least realised that ICTs can help =
determine how effectively development priorities have or are being met =
(as a measuring device); we just need them to take the next step and =
recognise that ICTs are integral to successfully delivering =
development. </div><div><br></div><div>Going forward I would like =
to see a focus on ICTs improving people's actual lives in a concrete =
sense, and the governance and social justice element being kept out of =
that so we don't see another decade of endless debate about sovereignty =
and the role of the state in society (which is frankly what is really =
behind all of the government-to-government IG disputes. Having another =
decade of defocus from actual development would be an enormous tragedy =
IMO. Ensuring a constructive link from the WSIS action lines to =
successful implementation of the MDGs should be at the cornerstone of =
the conclusion of the WSIS+10 process. Frankly, the entire international =
system is tuning itself to its role in the MDGs and WSIS should not be =
exempt from that. </div><div><br></div><div>
<br><div><div>On 22 May 2015, at 11:12, Michael Gurstein <<a =
href=3D"mailto:gurstein at gmail.com">gurstein at gmail.com</a>> =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div lang=3D"EN-CA" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" =
style=3D"font-family: OpenSans; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class=3D"WordSection1" =
style=3D"page: WordSection1;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);">My reading of WSIS is that the original intention was =
to explore how the benefits of this marvellous new technology might be =
shared globally and particularly through the application of ICTs to the =
issues/opportunities for economic and social development particularly in =
Less Developed Countries. The linking of the governance aspects with the =
developmental/social justice aspects was to ensure that however the =
Internet was to be =93governed=94 it would be such as to ensure the =
means for the widest possible dispersal of =
benefits.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);">There was however a splitting of emphases in WSIS =
with an ultimate emphasis on =93governance=94 at the expense of =
=93development=94 as was strongly promoted by the Developed Countries =
(and those elements of Civil Society which chose to focus on a free =
speech agenda rather than a social justice agenda). This ensured that =
the original objectives for =93governance=94 of the Internet would be =
lost to be replaced initially by essentially technical issues related to =
=93governance=94 on the one side and ICT for Development initiatives =
undertaken (and thus doomed) by proceeding without an integration into a =
broad based and supportive policy framework, on the other. The =
failure of the UN (and development agencies and others) to support a =
role for grassroots users and ICT practitioners in the WSIS process =
significantly reduced the leverage which the =93developmental (and =
social justice) agenda=94 might have had and directly contributed to =
this unfortunate result.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The subsequent =
development of parallel but highly unequal tracks for =93governance=94 =
and for =93development/social justice=94 has allowed the =93development=94=
agenda to slip more or less off the radar for the multilaterals and the =
bilaterals even while the opportunities and risks for the =93development=94=
agenda have been accelerating. The trivial way in which =
=93development=94 is addressed at the IGF is one manifestation of this =
as is the formulaic and ritualistic (and essentially out of touch) way =
in which the =93developmental=94 side has been dealt with in the various =
UNESCO and ITU and other UN forums up to and including the WSIS +10 =
process and the somewhat bizarre focussing on the =93Data Revolution=94 =
(the =93revolution=94 is of course about a lot more than simply =93data=94=
) in the MDG/SDG processes.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">So to answer your =
question Bertrand if I had my druthers (and to be a bit more inclusive =
of what I would like to =93unite=94) I would like to see a WSIS =
+10 which dealt with the reality of ICTs/the Internet in the context of =
social justice and here I would include not simply LDC=92s but the =
increasing numbers of those being =93excluded=94 in Developed Countries =
as well=97specifically I would have it (and with the active involvement =
and promotion by CS) address issues of growing ICT/Internet based =
economic inequality, social exclusion, rural de-stabilization, youth =
unemployment and precarious work, linguistic and cultural =
homogenization, ICT induced job destruction, and mass surveillance among =
others. I would want to see the WSIS +10 process reintegrate the =
governance and development/social justice elements to work towards =
democratic and decentralized global (Internet) governance and policy =
mechanisms sufficient to address these =
issues.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);">Mike<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>Bertrand de La Chapelle [<a =
href=3D"mailto:bdelachapelle at gmail.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;">mailto:bdelachapelle at gmail.com</a>]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><b>Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>May 21, 2015 4:41 =
PM<br><b>To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>parminder<br><b>Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a =
href=3D"mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;">governance at lists.igcaucus.org</a>; Michael =
Gurstein; Kleinw=E4chter, Wolfgang<br><b>Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [governance] On WSIS+10 =
(was Re: Why?)<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Dear =
Parminder,<o:p></o:p></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">I can =
agree with several of the points you make and your description of the =
sequence of events is quite accurate. Some comments however and a =
question/proposal in the end that is the most important in my =
view.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><b>Comments</b><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">I =
personally would not have been opposed to a full-fledged WSIS review =
(including potentially a summit level), provided however that it would =
have implemented additional improvement to the participation scheme =
achieved ten years ago. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;">Actually, the preparatory meetings organized by =
Unesco in 2013 and ITU in 2014 were interesting experiments in terms of =
more participatory processes and drafting. But it did not seem to have =
impacted the minds of the New York =
representatives. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">As =
you rightly point out, in the discussions last year at the UNGA, the =
positions among governments were =
roughly:<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">- on =
the one hand those who put the emphasis on multi-stakeholder =
participation and traditionally did not want a heads of state type of =
event nor a long preparatory process (for both good and bad reasons), =
who also favored a meeting in Geneva<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;">- on the other hand, as you said, "the more =
authoritarian countries among the G 77 also preferred it to move to New =
York, with much less multi stakeholder participation than what would =
have happened in Geneva, [and] wanted it to be summit level =
meeting"<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">I =
have not seen the position of the G77 that you mention and confess I did =
not follow this very closely. But as could be expected in pure =
intergovernmental discussions (as is the case in the UNGA) in the =
absence of a strong desire by all to reach an agreement, this divergence =
of views was only overcome with the sort of half-baked solution that we =
are now seeing (bits and pieces of each =
position). <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">I do =
agree that it deprives everyone of an opportunity to have a serious =
review and that was the initial gist of my post to Michael: I do not =
expect much from a mere resolution adopted in a two-day meeting in New =
York with little if any involvement of non-governmental actors in the =
preparation. At best it will reconduct the IGF with little if any =
improvements.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">Having participated for four years in the CSTD exercise every =
year, I can testify that none of the resolutions that we so =
painstakingly drafted in late night sessions contained anything more =
than copy and paste of the favorite sections of the various WSIS =
documents. I did not expect the intergovernmental discussions in New =
York about the WSIS+10 to produce anything significant - and I =
unfortunately was right. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;">But isn't it unfair to put the blame on civil =
society (or part of it) for this outcome, as you seem to imply? After =
all, it did not have a say in the process. I suppose in addition that it =
was itself split on the right thing to do, which would have made it hard =
to launch a structured and strong =
campaign. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">It is =
a bit the same as the debate on who has weakened the IGF? Is it the =
western countries that strongly refused to move towards recommendations =
(in part true - although they provided 100% of its funding)? Is it the =
more radical developing countries governments who somehow progressively =
stopped coming as a way to reduce its legitimacy (also true). Or is it =
the throttling by UN DESA which made it hard to receive funds, did not =
replace the Chair and maintained just a skeleton of a secretariat that =
prevented anything more than the organization of the annual even to be =
done (very much so). <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;">In the case of the WSIS+10, the governments in the =
UNGA - not civil society - are the ones to blame for being unable to =
agree on anything coherent regarding the mere format to discuss these =
very important issues. And this does not bode well for any likelihood of =
progress on substance, hence the legitimate caution by many regarding =
the role that the UN can play in that regard. An unfortunate =
self-reinforcing feedback loop. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;">We'll see what =
happens. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><b>Question/proposal</b><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;"><b>To end on a positive and more forward-looking =
note, what would be YOUR hopes for the WSIS+10 Review meeting and =
resolution? What do you think it can achieve? What could be civil =
society contribution to the shaping of the agenda and document? =
Suggestions welcome, as it might be a useful thread on this list - =
provided we focus on what unites rather than what =
divides.</b> <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">Best<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">Bertrand<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><b>PS</b>: As a matter of clarification, I do not sit on the =
ICANN Board since the end of 2013 (the Buenos Aires meeting) and =
therefore have no association with the positions that it has taken since =
then on the issues at stake here. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;"><br clear=3D"all"><o:p></o:p></div><div><table =
class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=3D"0" =
width=3D"600" style=3D"width: 450pt;"><tbody><tr style=3D"height: =
3.75pt;"><td colspan=3D"3" style=3D"padding: 0cm; height: =
3.75pt;"></td></tr><tr><td colspan=3D"3" style=3D"padding: 0cm;"><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; line-height: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(176, 173, 176);">"<em><span =
style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Le plus beau m=E9tier des =
hommes, c'est d'unir les hommes</span></em>", Antoine de Saint =
Exup=E9ry<br>("<em><span style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">There =
is no greater mission for humans than uniting =
humans</span></em>")<o:p></o:p></span></div></td></tr><tr style=3D"height:=
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New Roman', serif; line-height: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 138, 204); text-transform: =
uppercase;">BERTRAND DE LA CHAPELLE</span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(38, 38, =
38);"><o:p></o:p></span></div></td></tr><tr><td colspan=3D"3" =
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font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; line-height: =
12pt;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; =
color: rgb(38, 38, 38);">Internet & Jurisdiction Project | =
Director<o:p></o:p></span></div></td></tr><tr><td colspan=3D"3" =
style=3D"padding: 0cm;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; line-height: =
12pt;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; =
color: rgb(38, 38, 38);">email <a =
href=3D"mailto:bdelachapelle at internetjurisdiction.net" target=3D"_blank" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style=3D"color:=
rgb(159, 157, 159); text-decoration: =
none;">bdelachapelle at internetjurisdiction.net</span></a><o:p></o:p></span>=
</div></td></tr><tr><td colspan=3D"3" style=3D"padding: 0cm;"><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
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none;">bdelachapelle at gmail.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></div></td></tr=
><tr><td style=3D"padding: 0cm;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; line-height: =
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0cm;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; line-height: 12pt;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(38, =
38, 38); border: 1pt solid windowtext; padding: =
0cm;"><span><image001.jpg></span></span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(38, 38, =
38);"><o:p></o:p></span></div></td></tr><tr style=3D"height: =
3.75pt;"><td colspan=3D"3" style=3D"padding: 0cm; height: =
3.75pt;"></td></tr></tbody></table></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">On =
Thu, May 21, 2015 at 2:50 PM, parminder <<a =
href=3D"mailto:parminder at itforchange.net" target=3D"_blank" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;">parminder at itforchange.net</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></div><blockquote style=3D"border-style: none none none =
solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1pt; =
padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt; margin-left: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0cm;"><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;">On Tuesday 19 May 2015 11:57 PM, Bertrand de La =
Chapelle wrote:<o:p></o:p></div></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: =
5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">Michael,</span><o:p></o:p></div><div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">I am not sure I see what you =
mean below by "working to undermine and diminish the significance of the =
WSIS+10"? </span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">What surely could undermine =
the WSIS+10 process is that it will most likely be less open to =
non-state actors - and civil society in particular - than the WSIS =
itself 10 years ago. Unless things have changed, and according to =
the<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a =
href=3D"https://www.apc.org/en/news/everything-you-need-know-about-wsis10-=
review" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;">excellent summary by =
APC</a>: </span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-left: =
30pt; margin-right: 0cm;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><i><span =
style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">the review is going to =
be "a <span style=3D"">two-day high-level meeting of the =
General Assembly". The document will be prepared by =
"</span></span></i><i><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
Arial, sans-serif;">an intergovernmental negotiation process, which will =
include preparatory meetings, resulting in an intergovernmentally agreed =
outcome document, for adoption at the high-level meeting of the General =
Assembly".</span></i><o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;"><br><i>Bertrand<br><br>What Michael says above =
relates to how we reached the state of affair described in the cited =
section</i><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>from APC's =
summary.<br><br>I am sure you know how we reached the situation =
whereby<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>"<o:p></o:p></div><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-left: 30pt; margin-right: 0cm;"><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><i><span style=3D"font-family: =
Arial, sans-serif;">the review is going to be "a <span =
style=3D"">two-day high-level meeting of the General Assembly". The =
document will be prepared by "</span></span></i><i><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">an =
intergovernmental negotiation process, which will include preparatory =
meetings, resulting in an intergovernmentally agreed outcome document, =
for adoption at the high-level meeting of the General Assembly". =
"</span></i><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><i>Over many months last year, and the year before, G 77 sought =
a full fledged WSIS plus 10 summit on the same style as the original =
WSIS, the extended preparatory meetings and all.... Developed countries, =
under the customary US leadership, simply refused. Some m</i>ajor NGOs =
that otherwise follow this process closely were either silent or =
actually supporting the developed country position in this stand off, =
and to that extent opposing the position of a full fledged WSIS summit, =
original WSIS style (which would have then taken place in Geneva, with =
multistakeholder participation at least at the same level as was in the =
original WSIS). When this was happening, I raised the issue a few times =
on these list but got no response. It is really strange in the =
circumstances to now rue that this has happened.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>It is a fact that =
the more authoritarian countries among the G 77 also preferred it to =
move to New York, with much less multi stakeholder participation than =
what would have happened in Geneva, even though they wanted it to be =
summit level meeting.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><b><i>However, G 77 as a =
group was ready to do it fully original WSIS style</i></b>, with the =
leadership for this position taken by the more democratic developing =
countries. However, this position found no support from civil society =
and tech groups (ISOC) who otherwise were closely following the process, =
and there were in fact positions articulated that expressed some kinds =
of 'fear' about a possible full-fledged summit, with these positions =
largely aligning with developed country positions.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>That is what =
brought us were we are. Lets not escape the responsibility.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>Further, as I said =
in my earlier email, the CEO of ICANN - an organisation on whose board =
both you and Wolfgang sit - openly touted Net Mundial Initiative as =
something needed to stop governments from doing what they would in =
default (of NMI) do through the WSIS and its preparatory process. =
With this kind of sentiment, publicly expressed, it is clear what ICANN =
and others of the dominant IG cohort think of the WSIS =
process....<br><br>Quoting Fadi on why Net Mundial is needed =
- <span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a =
href=3D"http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/12/12/im_begging_you_to_join_net=
mundial_initiative_gets_desperate/?page=3D2" target=3D"_blank" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;">http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/12/12/im_begging_you_to_join=
_netmundial_initiative_gets_desperate/?page=3D2</a><br><br>"We need to =
make sure that next June (referring to the start of WSIS prep process) =
we don't have delegation after delegation going to UNGA [the United =
Nations General Assembly] saying there are no solutions to these =
issues.<br><br>And then now to express regret about the health of the =
WSIS process !?<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></div><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">For sure, modalities for =
consultation of relevant WSIS stakeholders are supposed to be put in =
place, but there is a big question mark in that regard at the moment, =
isn't it?</span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">In that context, maybe the =
motto should be: the real WSIS+10 is the IGF 2015. Why don't we make it =
so?</span><o:p></o:p></div></div></blockquote><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><br><span style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Yes, that =
kind of sentiment is and was precisely the problem which led to where we =
stand today.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>But =
then lets not try to have our cake and eat it too ...<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><span style=3D"color: =
rgb(136, 136, 136);"><br>parminder<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br></span><o:p></o:p></d=
iv><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: =
5pt;"><div><div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">Best</span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">Bertrand</span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;"><br clear=3D"all"><o:p></o:p></div><div><table =
class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=3D"0" =
width=3D"600" style=3D"width: 450pt;"><tbody><tr style=3D"height: =
3.75pt;"><td style=3D"padding: 0cm; height: 3.75pt;"></td></tr><tr><td =
style=3D"padding: 0cm;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; line-height: =
12pt;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; =
color: rgb(176, 173, 176);">"<em><span style=3D"font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">Le plus beau m=E9tier des hommes, c'est d'unir les =
hommes</span></em>", Antoine de Saint Exup=E9ry<br>("<em><span =
style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">There is no greater mission =
for humans than uniting =
humans</span></em>")<o:p></o:p></span></div></td></tr><tr style=3D"height:=
7.5pt;"><td style=3D"padding: 0cm; height: 7.5pt;"></td></tr><tr><td =
style=3D"padding: 0cm;"></td></tr><tr style=3D"height: 3.75pt;"><td =
style=3D"padding: 0cm; height: =
3.75pt;"></td></tr></tbody></table></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">On =
Tue, May 19, 2015 at 5:48 PM, Michael Gurstein <<a =
href=3D"mailto:gurstein at gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;">gurstein at gmail.com</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></div><blockquote style=3D"border-style: none none none =
solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1pt; =
padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt; margin-left: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0cm;"><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;">Wolfgang, I must say that I find your statement =
below exceedingly odd in<br>that you seem to have ignored the manner in =
which a number of the leading<br>"civil society" organizations have been =
working alongside their USG and UKG<br>(and other) allies to undermine =
and diminish the significance of the WSIS<br>+10 process.<br><span =
style=3D"color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"><br>M<br></span><br>-----Original =
Message-----<br>From:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a=
href=3D"mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org" target=3D"_blank" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;">governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>[mailto:<a =
href=3D"mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org" target=3D"_blank" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;">governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org</a>] On Behalf Of =
"Kleinw=E4chter,<br>Wolfgang"<br>Sent: May 19, 2015 3:01 PM<br>To:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a =
href=3D"mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org" target=3D"_blank" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;">governance at lists.igcaucus.org</a>; parminder; David =
Cake<br>Cc:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a =
href=3D"mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org" target=3D"_blank" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;">governance at lists.igcaucus.org</a>; BestBitsList; =
Forum at Justnetcoalition. Org<o:p></o:p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif;">Subject: [governance] Why?<br><br>Sorry for intervening: =
It is really a pitty that the discussion on this list<br>is occupied by =
hairsplitting, "I told you but you do not listen" and "I am<br>right and =
you are wrong". Why this civil society network, which once played<br>an =
important role in policy development in the WSIS process, is unable =
to<br>look forward where the real challenges are with the forthcoming =
WSIS 10+<br>processes and concentrate on substance and how to reach =
rough consensus? Why<br>people do not respect anymore what Jon Postel =
has told us a quarter of a<br>century ago in his robustness princple: =
"Be conservative in what you send,<br>be liberal in what you accept". =
Why they do not remember the language of the<br>CS WSIS Geneva =
Declaration from 2003?<br><br>The Bali split (2013) has obviously long =
shadows and old warriors have<br>overtaken the discussion.<br><br>My =
hope is that the WSIS 10++ perspective will encourage a new generation =
of<br>younger civil society people who feel more committed to the =
substance of<br>real civil society activities and do not waste the =
limited resources and<br>energies for infighting. And do not forget: The =
WGIG proposal for a<br>multistakeholder approach in Internet Governance =
(2005) was a compromise<br>between "governmental leadership" (China) and =
private sector leadership<br>(USA)and it opened the door for civil =
society to become an inclusive part of<br>the process. This was a boig =
achievement of that time and an opportunity. It<br>is now up to the next =
generation of civil society activists to build on this<br>oppportunity. =
It would be a big shame if this would be =
destroyed.<br><br>Wolfgang<o:p></o:p></p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></blockquote></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><pre style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier =
New';">____________________________________________________________<o:p></=
o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; =
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