[governance] Re: [IRPCoalition] [bestbits] Time-sensitive: 24 hour sign on period for ITU Plenipot joint recommendations

Fri Oct 24 11:10:44 EDT 2014

Yes, I am very busy making public declarations as appropriate on important
matters.  And I'm sure I and many others will address this issue when we
see the right time and place to do so.  Sorry it may not serve your
purposes of how and when you'd like to engage people.  But I'm sorry, you
shouldn't draw any particular conclusions from it other than what you care
to believe.

On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 10:32 AM, michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com>
wrote:

> No, I don’t think so, Gene.
>
>
>
> Siva has made a very clear and simple statement here in the context of
> most of those in CS currently active in the IG space on an issue of quite
> central importance going forward.
>
>
>
> I would have thought that advocates of the MSist model would be only too
> delighted to make a public declaration of opposition on this matter, or by
> their silence indicate consent.
>
>
>
> M
>
>
>
> *From:* Gene Kimmelman [mailto:genekimmelman at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, October 24, 2014 7:21 AM
> *To:* michael gurstein
> *Cc:* Sivasubramanian M; forum at justnetcoalition.org; Avri Doria; IGC;
> bestbits at lists.bestbits.net> IRP
> *Subject:* Re: [IRPCoalition] [bestbits] Time-sensitive: 24 hour sign on
> period for ITU Plenipot joint recommendations
>
>
>
> I'm sorry Michael, but I think silence -- at least on my part -- indicates
> that many of us just don't have the time to engage right now on the merits
> of this; I'm just too busy and think this may be something better to
> discuss in person at some future meeting.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 9:59 AM, michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Perhaps we can assume here that silence is consent.
>
>
>
> M
>
>
>
> *From:* michael gurstein [mailto:gurstein at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, October 24, 2014 6:51 AM
> *To:* 'Sivasubramanian M'
> *Cc:* 'Avri Doria'; 'Bits bestbits at lists.bestbits.net';
> governance at lists.igcaucus.org; IRP; forum at justnetcoalition.org
> *Subject:* RE: [bestbits] Time-sensitive: 24 hour sign on period for ITU
> Plenipot joint recommendations
>
>
>
> Thanks for this Sivasubramanian…
>
>
>
> Can I/we take this i.e. that MSism (governance by self-appointed elites)
> is the “next evolutionary stage of democracy” is a generally agreed upon
> position among the proponents of MSism?
>
>
>
> M
>
>
>
> *From:* Sivasubramanian M [mailto:isolatedn at gmail.com
> <isolatedn at gmail.com>]
> *Sent:* Friday, October 24, 2014 6:12 AM
> *To:* michael gurstein
> *Cc:* Avri Doria; Bits bestbits at lists.bestbits.net
> *Subject:* Re: [bestbits] Time-sensitive: 24 hour sign on period for ITU
> Plenipot joint recommendations
>
>
>
> Dear Michael Gurstein,
>
>
>
> The definitions are reconciled when the multistakeholder model is viewed
> as the next phase of evolution of Democracy, and in this phase, it is in
> its initial stages of evolution with some aspects being defined.
>
>
>
> Sivasubramanian M
>
>
> Sivasubramanian M <https://www.facebook.com/sivasubramanian.muthusamy>
>
> +1 (213) 300 8293 Oct 11-19 2014
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 12:57 PM, michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> You can of course a la the Lewis Carroll’s the Queen of Hearts define
> anything you like as whatever you like but I’m very curious how your
> reconcile the current practice of MSism with this definition of
> Participatory Democracy (from Wikipedia
>
>
>
> *Participatory democracy* is a process emphasizing the broad participation
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Participation_%28decision_making%29> of
> constituents in the direction and operation of political systems.
> Etymological roots of democracy <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy>
> (Greek *demos <http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/demos>* and *kratos
> <http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%BA%CF%81%CE%AC%CF%84%CE%BF%CF%82>*)
> imply that the people are in power and thus that all democracies are
> participatory. …
>
> Participatory democracy strives to create opportunities for all members of
> a population to make meaningful contributions to decision-making, and seeks
> to broaden the range of people who have access to such opportunities.
>
> It seems to me that decision making a la MSism by self-appointed elites
> (corporates, their governmental allies and whomever else they choose to
> participate) hardly qualifies as “creat(ing) opportunities for all members
> of a population to make meaningful contributions to decision-making”.
>
> But maybe I’m missing something.
>
> M
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net [mailto:
> bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net] *On Behalf Of *Avri Doria
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 23, 2014 12:34 PM
> *To:* bestbits at lists.bestbits.net
> *Subject:* Re: [bestbits] Time-sensitive: 24 hour sign on period for ITU
> Plenipot joint recommendations
>
>
>
>
>
> On 23-Oct-14 08:20, michael gurstein wrote:
>
>  If you take a look at my blog both the current post and several of the earlier ones you will see my argument that MSism is being presented as a form of global governance in competition with democratic governance.
>
>
>
> I haven't read your blog.  But I always define multistakeholderism (m17m)
> as a form of participatory democracy that builds on the representative
> democracy that some few nations have put into effect as well as the
> bottom-up organic coming together of stakeholders, who sometime aggregate
> into stakeholder groups, on a particular theme.  I define it as a form of
> democracy somewhere between basic representative democracy and full direct
> democracy.
>
> I think many other accept some form of the m17m is a form of participatory
> democracy definition.  So the frames of reference are really quite
> different.
>
> avri
>
>
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>
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