[governance] PP: India wants to abolish BGP and introduce national routing and IP management

[Barry Shein]

You're using a different meaning of "defined" than I intended, sorry,
my fault for being ambiguous.

By "defined" I meant that for example that ARIN is the RIR for North
American (roughly) and then the ARIN region is defined by a list of
nation-states.

   https://www.arin.net/knowledge/rirs/ARINcountries.html

There are several exceptions, mostly small island entities which are
roughly in the ARIN vicinity (e.g., St Pierre & Miquelon, British
Virgin Islands) but not strictly nation-states. And a few outliers
(e.g., St Helena) which...had to go some place.

Nonetheless the point should be self-evident: The RIR regions are
defined by a set of nation-states (e.g., ARIN: USA, Canada, Jamaica)
with some small exceptions for practical reasons. RIPE NCC is the
same.

So to go back to the original point (not by you, what I was responding
to): Stating that IP address allocation authority should not be
"Westphalian" seems, I'll use the word again, disingenuous.

Perhaps stating a contrapositive is even more clear: Other than
perhaps some small outlying islands or similar special cases no
nation-state is split between two RIRs. Even the vast Russian
Federation which spans two continents is entirely within only the RIPE
NCC region.

On October 31, 2014 at 20:24 daniel at digsys.bg (Daniel Kalchev) wrote:
 > 
 > 
 > > On 30.10.2014 г., at 22:19, Barry Shein <bzs at world.std.com> wrote:
 > > 
 > > 2.
 > > 
 > > Change subject slightly, not a response to anything below:
 > > 
 > > In reference to the comments about a "Westphalian" view of address
 > > allocation:
 > > 
 > > We do currently have a regional division of organizations for address
 > > allocation, APNIC (Asia-Pacific), AfrNIC (Africa), LACNIC (Latin
 > > Amer), ARIN (N. Amer.), and RIPE (Europe.)
 > > 
 > > And these in turn are defined by the nation-states they serve.
 > 
 > Some of us are old enough to know, and hopefully not old enough to still remember...
 > 
 > All these were built later, using the model of the very successful RIPE NCC. The RIPE NCC was conceived, designed and built by a bunch of European folk, who were then involved in building the informal pan European data network, loosely based on internet protocols, that later grew up to become today's internet (after being fast adopted by our friends across the pond).
 > 
 > There was never, ever, any government or even nation-state element in how it was all organized. In fact nation-state was at one time considered, by experimenting with national last resort IP address registries, but was ultimately abandoned because the community was not using it (I know first hand, as I was running one of these myself).
 > 
 > The RIPE NCC is also a very interesting example, as it has members from a very broadly defined "European" region. It would have served much wider audience (again, on strictly netizen based representation), if it was not for international politics, that pushed for the creation of more strictly regional groups.
 > 
 > Anyway, most people will happily ignore history and draw conclusions from whatever fits their (current) agenda. Again, human nature.
 > 
 > I was today at a meeting with our government, and they insisted that "multistakeholderism", "as they were told by ICANN" means, that governments should have more role in managing the Internet. They also commented that Bulgaria is the only country in Europe with a liberal regime where the government does not control the Internet (their wording), and this should be fixed.
 > Notice a pattern?
 > 
 > Daniel

-- 
        -Barry Shein

The World              | bzs at TheWorld.com           | http://www.TheWorld.com
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