[governance] need for regulation ....

Fri Mar 14 12:25:03 EDT 2014

You seem to be calling for nationalization or maybe worldization of Google 
and similar

India's abortive experience with this has left us with a multitude of sick 
industries losing billions of rupees a year. I congratulate you on trying 
to perpetuate that same failed model here

On 14 March 2014 9:41:51 pm parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> wrote:

>
> On Monday 10 March 2014 08:48 PM, Carlos A. Afonso wrote:
> > I think there is a basic misunderstanding related to the role of
> > private, free, non-mandatory services versus, for example, the required,
> > paid for, connectivity services we need to be on the Internet.
>
> Hi Carlos,
>
> We may differ on issues and principles here, but I assure you that there is 
> no misunderstanding. Our position is based on considerable thinking.
>
> What is entirely left to the private sector, what gets provided as a public 
> or social good, and what gets closely regulated even though provided 
> privately are decisions that societies taken on the basis of many 
> considerations. What was earlier a private good can become a public good as 
> times change. Prior to the industrial revolution, education was considered 
> a rather private good - it was either a matter of some very exclusive 
> privilege of the highest classes, or consisted of skills transferred within 
> occupational groups like guilds. With the industrial revolution, many 
> changes took place in social structures, in structure of family, work force 
> and so on.... Soon later, education begun to see as seen as a kind of 
> public good, and then as  a human right in the UN Declaration of Human 
> Rights...
>
> Sorry for the detour but, similar basic changes are taking place vis a vis 
> the ongoing information/Internet revolution. One important element of this 
> transformation are some new kinds of socio-technical platforms that 
> mediated a huge swathe of social activities, which could span a whole 
> sector - like global knowledge organising, instant media, general social 
> networking, and so on. Such platforms have the character of natural 
> monopolies - a fact that is proven. All this present a very new situation, 
> and accordingly an assessment has to be made in public interest of the need 
> and degree of regulation of such platforms. Also, whether some of these 
> services also need to be provided as public goods, or at least proactive 
> public support (including with funds)  given for building local and/ or 
> non-profit alternatives. But the least that can certainly be said is that a 
> completely unregulated commercial offering of these platforms, as huge 
> global monopolies, and largely escaping regulation because of their global 
> nature, coupled with extra-ordinary economic (and increasingly, political) 
> might, is not not a sustainable situation. We can accept it now and take 
> remedial measures, or do it after considerable social damage is done.
>
> (In fact, as you say, since these services are free, they do not even 
> constitute a commercial service agreement since no payment is made for 
> them. Whereby we can also say that there can be no consumer rights vis a 
> vis these services. Would you agree to such a proposition? )
>
> All of which simply points to the fact that we are facing very new and 
> unique situation in an increasingly Internet-mediated world. We may have to 
> visit our policy and regulatory paradigms anew, and we should show the 
> political openness to do so.
>
> Now, we may still disagree on which layers of the Internet requirer 
> regulation and which not, but I just wanted to clarify that our position is 
> well thought out and not a result as a mis- understanding.
>
> regards
>
> parminder
>
> >
> > Services such as Google, Facebook, Twitter etc, are opt-in, not required
> > for the user to be on the Internet. And they are free to use, regardless
> > of what they do or don't with your visit to them. You visit at your own
> > risk and will.
> >
> > Our broadband or mobile connection is paid, required if we wish to be on
> > the Internet, and subject to a provider-user contract regarding which we
> > can demand consumer and other rights.
> >
> > I do not see how we can just tell Google to do what Guru requests. One
> > can just *not* use Google and still be on the Internet. Or can use just
> > a few components with due care regarding personal privacy configurations
> > if one wishes. Same with any other non-mandatory, free, opt-in service.
> >
> > IMHO
> >
> > --c.a.
> >
> > On 03/10/2014 07:26 AM, Guru गुरु wrote:
> >> Dear all,
> >>
> >> Not clear, how in Multistakeholderism, where the private sector has an
> >> equal footing in public policy making, we will get Google to agree that
> >> its search algorithm, as the key factor organising the worlds
> >> information/knowledge for all of us, needs to be public knowledge, not a
> >> commercial secret. The need for it to be public knowledge stems from
> >> privacy/surveillance concerns, because such fundamental knowledge ought
> >> to be available as 'cultural commons' that others can
> >> take/re-use/revise, fostering competition etc.
> >>
> >> regards,
> >> Guru
> >>
> >> Google faces Rs 30,500-cr fine in India
> >> New Delhi, PTI: March 9, 2014
> >>
> >>   Google can face a penalty of up to about $5 billion if it is found to
> >> have violated competition norms of the country.  Google, which is facing
> >> anti-trust investigation in India by fair trade watchdog Competition
> >> Commission of India (CCI), can face a penalty of up to about $5 billion
> >> (Rs 30,500 crore) if it is found to have violated competition norms of
> >> the country.
> >>
> >> Google said it is “extending full cooperation” to the CCI in its
> >> investigation. The conclusion of a two-year review by the US antitrust
> >> watchdog has concluded that the company's services were good for
> >> competition, it added. The case has been before the CCI for over two
> >> years now, and it relates to allegations that Google is abusing its
> >> dominant position. Under competition regulations, an entity found
> >> violating the norms could be slapped with penalty of up to 10 per cent
> >> of its three-year annual average turnover. In the case of Google, its
> >> annual revenues in the last three years amounts to a staggering $49.3
> >> billion (Rs 3.01 lakh crore), and the maximum penalty can be up to
> >> nearly $5 billion.
> >>
> >> When asked about the ongoing probe and the potential penalty, a Google
> >> spokesperson said: “We are extending full co-operation to the
> >> Competition Commission of India in their investigation.”  The emailed
> >> statement added: “We're pleased that the conclusion of the Federal Trade
> >> Commission's two-year review was that Google's services are good for
> >> users and good for competition.”
> >>
> >> A complaint filed with the CCI cannot be withdrawn. The complaint
> >> against Google, also one of the world's most valued company, was first
> >> filed by advocacy group CUTS International way back in late 2011. Later.
> >> Matrimonial website matrimony.com Private Ltd also filed a complaint.
> >> Last year, CCI chairman Ashok Chawla had said the complaint was that the
> >> Google search engine favours platforms it wants to support.
> >>
> >> “That is, when you click on Google under a certain category, you will
> >> get the platforms where there is a tendency to put them in a certain
> >> order which may not be the fair and non-discriminatory. So, *what is the
> >> software and what is the algorithmic search, (that is) what the
> >> investigation team is looking at,” *Chawla had said.
> >>
> >> source -
> >> http://www.deccanherald.com/content/390977/google-faces-rs-30500-cr.html
>
>

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