[governance] Re: [bestbits] Bad Behaviour

Thu Jan 9 02:06:00 EST 2014

Hi Michael,

regardless the content of your response, I am still  wondering why you put
the 1net list on cc while the initial thread is in IGC list .

another remark, as an non-native speaker, I cannot really grasp every time
the expressions or references you are using and this coming someone stating
defending the under-represented , I feel confused .

Best Regards,

Rafik

2014/1/9 michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com>

> All of this cluck, cluck, clucking about "bad behavior" by some folks
> whose truly atrocious behavior effectively shut down the IGC list and may
> have destroyed it forever is a source of some shall we say, "irony...
>
>
>
> I was at the famous Bali meeting and I thought that Parminder's behaviour
> was at a couple of points inappropriate--provoked certainly, but
> inappropriate; perhaps reflecting certain cultural misunderstandings or
> whatever, but yes, inappropriate and I told him so...
>
>
>
> Whether it warrants this kind of public vilification and what appears to
> be a desire for permanent exile (and the, dare I say, quite evidently
> political motivations that are prompting this .... I leave to various
> people's judgement..
>
>
>
> In normal circumstances I would suggest that one party offers an apology,
> the other party accepts, they kiss and make up (whoops perhaps not so
> appropriate in this circumstance... and we all go on our way...
>
>
>
> But let's talk about some really "bad behavior" and moreover behavior that
> has serious consequences much beyond a couple of momentary lapses...
>
>
>
> We have a *self-selected* group, *purportedly* representing "Civil
> Society" (the Best bits Coordinating Committee); being *self-appointed*to an, in turn,
> *self-selected* group which *purports* to also represent Civil Society
> but in some vaguer larger sense (the Civil Society Coordinating
> Committee-CS:CC); and then further *self-selecting* themselves or their
> designates to represent "civil society" on the Coordinating Group of
> further *vague and extremely shadowy and so far with no provenance or
> transparency *-- the Inet group.
>
>
>
> And then to pile on top of this we have authorities in Brazil (again
> extremely vague as to who exactly is involved) *designating this shadowy
> Inet group to be the sole interface* for all of the non-governmental
> sectors to be involved in what has been purported to be a Summit to discuss
> global Internet Policies and Principles...
>
>
>
> And further we have this CS: CC going through an internal process among
> its self-appointed poobahs of horse-trading and other processes *without
> apparent legitimacy or accountability and transparency (only by happy
> accident)* to identify nominees for some elements of this self-same
> "Summit/err... meeting...
>
>
>
> (I may have missed an illegitimacy or unaccountability there somewhere but
> you get my drift...
>
>
>
> Now, the community of which I am a part has been looking to have a role in
> these discussions but what I see is a wall of illegitimacies and
> exclusionary behaviours which at their base and up and down the line are
> quite evidently politically motivated i.e. meant to close off debate; to
> limit issues and options; to exclude divergent voices; to ensure the
> ultimate adoption of a now-(post-Snowden) discredited and illegitimate,
> status quo consensus concerning the principle, policies and practices of
> global Internet Governance...
>
>
>
> To say that I'm disappointed is hardly sufficient... To say that all this
> is starting to look (err... smell) like the World Economic Forum and it's
> pay for play approach to Global Governance is I think hardly hyperbole.
>
>
>
> "So what does a po' boy do, but play in a... whoops wrong song, but right
> melody...
>
>
>
> Maybe we'll just have to call our own meeting -- call it the World
> Internet Forum -- and see who might show up to have a real discussion on
> the real issues concerning the Internet in current society and towards an Internet
>  for the Common Good<http://cirn.wikispaces.com/An+Internet+for+the+Common+Good+-+Engagement%2C+Empowerment%2C+and+Justice+for+All>...
>
>
>
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:
> governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of McTim
> Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2014 11:01 AM
> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Daniel Pimienta
> Subject: Re: [governance] Nomination of Parminder
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 10:11 PM, Daniel Pimienta <pimienta at funredes.org>
> wrote:
>
> > This is getting quite personal now... Dont you think it is too much so?
>
> > From Deirdre's report I get that neither Suresh nor Mc Tim were
>
> > present in that event, so why are they reporting about it?
>
>
>
> Speaking for myself, I am not "reporting" merely reminding folk that it is
> an unresolved issue for the IGC.
>
>
>
> >
>
> > When I read:
>
> >
>
> >> He was then physically aggressive/threatening towards me (no contact,
>
> >> but i felt physically threatened).
>
> >
>
> > I must say that I totally trust this testimony: what people feels is
>
> > an objective part of their own realm although it could be seen
>
> > subjective from the outside.
>
> >
>
> > However.
>
> >
>
> > Just a highly probable hypothesis to try to put some calming to this
>
> > personal situation.
>
> > Cultures does matters. Difference of cultures makes a lot of
> ...difference.
>
>
>
> Does your hypothesis explain why folks from other parts of the world were
> so uncomfortable they also left?
>
>
>
>
>
> >
>
> > I spent 2 years in assignment in the US back in 1984 (in the deep
>
> > South), coming from my mediterranean culture.
>
> > Every time I was getting anger (and in my culture we do not repress
>
> > this state of mind, we just express our anger) I realized that some
>
> > people around me felt physically threaten (in spite the fact I have
>
> > never rised the hand to anybody and I am totally uncapable of any
>
> > physical agression). It really impressed me a lot and obliged me,
>
> > since i was living there, to try to adapt and change somehow behavior.
>
> > I am not familiar with Indian culture but I wonder if we are not
>
> > facing the same type of situation and my guess is that it is highly
> probable.
>
> >
>
> > I do recommand the reading of US citizen author Edward T. Hall's "The
>
> > hidden dimension" who brightly explained how cultural chocks create
>
> > strange situatrons... and to cool down.
>
> >
>
> > Conclusive question : are we supposed, on the top of being fluent in
>
> > English, to embrace US culture in order to be allowed to participate
>
> > in an IGF event?
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> no, you just have to have a sense of decency.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> McTim
>
> "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route
> indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel
>
>
>
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