From ian.peter at ianpeter.com  Fri Aug  1 00:52:04 2014
From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2014 14:52:04 +1000
Subject: CS consensual statement on MSism WAS Re: [governance] Vint Verf
 tells us the conclusion of the complex IANA transition process
In-Reply-To: <53DADF64.1000609@eff.org>
References: <20140729163109.439fa0fd@quill> <53DADF64.1000609@eff.org>
Message-ID: <2A88133F001C4A81824DE9182320EAA8@Toshiba>

I'd b happy to work with a smaller group on this. If we have a 
representative group with our divergent opinions represented, that would 
help to get to some words likely to be acceptable to the larger group.

Ian

-----Original Message----- 
From: Jeremy Malcolm
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 10:29 AM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org ; bestbits at lists.bestbits.net
Subject: Re: CS consensual statement on MSism WAS Re: [governance] Vint Verf 
tells us the conclusion of the complex IANA transition process


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From mehrzad.azghandi at gmail.com  Fri Aug  1 04:01:26 2014
From: mehrzad.azghandi at gmail.com (Mehrzad Azghandi)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2014 12:31:26 +0430
Subject: [governance] Fwd: Fwd: Fwd: [Members] US District Court for DC
 - IRAN/SYRIA - ICANN
In-Reply-To: <53B93A3B.6090707@ITforChange.net>
References: <53B928BE.3040603@itforchange.net>
	<53B93A3B.6090707@ITforChange.net>
Message-ID: <CAFXGDf06FWMhspzpZTS9u8SMb1x4GkF9On7fud=RNW_B2YoeAw@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for sharing Guru,

+1
Mehrzad


On Sun, Jul 6, 2014 at 4:29 PM, Guru गुरु <Guru at itforchange.net> wrote:

>  I thought this posting on another list may be useful to the discussion on
> the IGC thread  "Some more legal tangles for ICANN"
> regards,
> Guru
>
> -------- Original Message --------  Subject: [Members] US District Court
> for DC - IRAN/SYRIA - ICANN  Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2014 13:14:12 +0200  From: Jean-Christophe
> NOTHIAS I The Global Journal <jc.nothias at theglobaljournal.net>
> <jc.nothias at theglobaljournal.net>  Reply-To: members at justnetcoalition.org  To:
> Member Just_Net_Coalition <members at justnetcoalition.org>
> <members at justnetcoalition.org>
>
> Dear JNC members,
>
>  I thought I would wrap-up some facts and appreciation of a new case
> where Plaintiffs have requested the US District Court for the district of
> Columbia to turn to ICANN in order to seize whatever money, property,
> credit IRAN and Syria have at ICANN. This is a 'first', and worth to be
> looked at. Even though we are not legal expert for US law, it is a very
> interesting issue to look at in an Internet Governance perspective. Like
> anything related to US law and jurisdiction, this might take years before a
> conclusion can be reached -  right now these judgements have been made by
> default as Iran and Syria did not show up to the Court to defend
> themselves. Still the case is showing that the asymmetric role of the US in
> terms of Internet Governance is under critical challenge. It also shows
> that much of what is related to the management of the root zone (address
> book for the dot_something (.XYZ) is still missing international definition
> and agreements. This is part of the fact that IG has been into US hands, at
> least under the current form since 1998 when ICANN was incorporated and
> when Jon Postel's job at the root zone level was doing until then through
> IANA was also transfer to ICANN under the same acronym. The new IANA became
> part of the ICANN that same year Being an 'authority' and a 'department' of
> ICANN, IANA has no bylaws but is under strict supervision of the US
> Department of Commerce, through NTIA. Nothing can be change at the root
> zone level for TLDs (gTLDs or ccTLDs) without the consent of the US DoC.
> This helps to understand by the same token the role of IANA, as a
> department of ICANN under a double US oversight, ICANN being itself under
> contract with the US DoC.
>
>  Some debate took place into the IGC list, and I would start from there.
>
>  1_
> It started here
>
> http://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-us-terror-victims-now-own-irans-internet/
>
>  2_
> A subscriber to the Civil Society Governance Caucus- IGC elist (Joly
> McFie) wrote on June 25:
>
>  "ICANN licenses the TLDs to different world governments who then are
> permitted to appoint agents who sell the domain names and their country
> specific internet suffixes to individuals, businesses and organizations."
>
> 1/ Is this strictly true?
> 2/ Does ICANN have a licence over ccTLDs?
>
>  Some honorable subscribers of the IGC list reacted, among others:
>
>  From Daniel Kalchev
> * - most ccTLDs were delegated before ICANN was even an idea and most
> ccTLDs managers are in fact not been appointed by any government.*
> * - After all, Internet was, is and will be an worldwide private network.*
>
>  From Wolfgang Kleinwächter:
> * - This is nonsense. The author of this piece does not understand, how
> the DNS works. *
>
>  From McTim:
> * - This won't go anywhere... Just a lawyer trying to get attention for
> his case.*
> * - The fees paid to ICANN from Iran are exactly zero.*
>
>  3_
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> * Then I posted On June 28 to the same IGC list the following information:
> Here are the 6 "Writs of Attachment
> <https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_dOI5puxRA9M3hweE9Eel9mVTQ/edit?pli=1>"
> (5  vs IRAN; 1 vs Syria) as of June 24, 2014, notified to ICANN/IANA by the
> US District Court for the District of Columbia. So no "if" and no
> "apparently" as some doubted on the list. 4_ There would be postings with
> opposing views, ones saying that there was nothing to worry about - ICANN
> would simply answer 'no'- and others saying that this was critical issue
> for the first-level domain for countries (ccTLD: country-code for Top Level
> Domain). 5_ First, to be frank,  I would say that I was a bit disappointed
> with the comments on the IGC list. Some participants were supposedly able
> to provide a better perspective on the case. For example,  I believe that
> Wolfgang Kleinwächter, specially since he is working at ICANN, should have
> provided a better answer to Joly's question. "Non sense" means little if
> nothing. Sharing and distributing understanding is always worth the effort.
> Daniel is quite right in his first assumption (Jon Postel did most of the
> delegation work prior to the NewCo ICANN/IANA, established in 1998). I
> would not be overly certain that the majority of ccTLDs mangers are not
> being appointed by governments. That could be investigated. A ccTLD being
> considered by governments as part of their "national sovereignty" I would
> challenge this assertion. National realities are often more subtile. More
> of a concern in my view is Daniel's idea of a "worldwide private network".
> This has little if no reality. Networks belong to Telecom Operators for the
> largest part, some being public, some private (under governmental
> regulations). Autonomous Systems do also belong
> to public or private entities. What can be seen as worldwide is
> "interconnectivity" - one can say that nobody owns the Interconnectivity,
> something essentially untrue when we speak of 'Internet'. A "private"
> thing? I do not see anything else than a public space here,
> where private interests might indeed be dominant. McTim underestimates the
> "where" the Court request is leading. A simple "no" by ICANN/IANA/NTIA
> would not be the end for the US District Court to act.  McTim is right
> about the fact that Iran and Syria pay no fees to ICANN, but still this
> does not evacuate the idea, as per the Court appreciation and own view,
> that a ccTLD has great value. McTim has acknowledged this fact. Back to
> Joly's "ICANN Licenses the ccTLDS..." Strictly true? ICANN having a license
> over ccTLDs IANA, which is not an incorporate non profit, is a "department
> of ICANN". It is an 'authority' with no legal ground, no bylaws in the US,
> nor any International recognition. Still it has quite many
> responsibilities. One major constraint for ICANN/IANA regarding the root
> zone is that nothing can be changed in the root zone file without an
> approval by DoC (through NTIA). The new IANA (part of the new ICANN) has
> taken over the continuity of handling the delegation
> <https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/delegation-2012-02-25-en> of the
> ccTLDs to registries since Jon Postel died in 1998, days before ICANN was
> incorporated with Vint Cerf as first president. By then IANA was funded by
> the US Department of Defense. We should all remember that Postel came to
> Geneva in 1997 where he intended to establish a non profit, with an
> international recognition from governments, a non profit that would handle
> the civilian root zone for the planet. His project was opposed by US
> diplomats in Geneva at the time. So to anwser Joly: Yes, IANA, a department
> of ICANN delegates (the verb to license would not be strictly right) each
> ccTLD to a unique entity/registry, but only after the US DoC approval. IANA
> is also responsible for re-delegation. In the case of IRAN, the unique
> registry that has received the delegation to handle the ".IR" ccTLD is THE
> INSTITUTE for RESEARCH in FUNDAMENTAL SCIENCES, based in IRAN, and
> affiliated with the Iranian Ministry of Science, Research, and Technology
> founded in 1989 under the name of INSTITUTE for STUDIES in THEORETICAL
> PHYSICS and MATHEMATICS - this tends to document the fact that the registry
> for .IR is legitimate part of the state of IRAN. What can the US District
> Court do about this? Ask for the plaintiffs to become the unique registry
> for .IR? The new registry would then earn money thanks to the Iranian
> registrars that would keep using the .IR. Not a bad deal. What would IANA
> consider as a possible reason to terminate the delegation of the .IR? If we
> look at what ICANN considers as a possible reason to terminate a registrar
> accreditation agreement
> <https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/ra-agreement-2009-05-21-en> (see 5.3
> of the Registrar Accreditation Agreement, even though it does not seem to
> have its equivalent with registries). But who said that this could not
> happen when it comes to a registry issue? Again, in the absence of an
> international treaty clarifying many obscure points in terms of root zone
> policy, the many vacuums could be of great amusement to a US District
> Court. Again, that brings a very serious challenge to the global,
> transnational governance of the Internet. ICANN is now in a poor situation.
> Would ICANN give way to the US District Court request, many countries would
> take the opportunity to fully challenge ICANN in its fundaments. Would
> ICANN pass the hot potato to someone else (US DoC? IRFS, the Iranian
> registry? Nobody?) the Court might not like that answer, and might
> threatened ICANN to comply. We'll see. Still we have a pending question:
> what difference should be made between "to license" and "to delegate" a
> ccTLD?  Nobody really owns a domain name, and there are many indications
> that it could considered in the same way for TLDs. A TLD or domain name
> 'holder'/'tenant' pays a 'lease' for a domain. If the .COM is the property
> of ICANN or DoC, then .IR would then be the property of its current tenant.
> As with any lease, it can end if not renewed or be terminated by the
> delegating authority (if nobody is ultimate owner). So we definitely have a
> situation that isnot clear, as a domain name is still not a property but
> holds intellectual property rights, turning it into a very valuable asset.
> You do not own the domain, you own the right to use it. This still means
> that any TLD has a commercial value, including ccTLDs, and is therefore an
> asset and subject to a Court sequestration warrant or redelegation request.
> And in this case, the judge is not asking for the moon, I would say. Here
> is an excellent work funded by the US National Science Foundation and ITU
> related to "Policy, Business, Technical and Operational Considerations for
> the Management of a country code Top Level Domain (ccTLD) drafted in 2008.
> It is an interesting document
> <http://www.itu.int/ITU-D/cyb/ip/docs/itu-draft-cctld-guide.pdf>. Regarding
> a possible redelegation, read what
> <http://www.iana.org/reports/2005/iq-report-05aug2005.pdf> happened to the
> .IQ (IRAK) in 2005. It's a IANA report worth to read. See again the role
> played by the US DoC and NTIA. Without putting in a US District Court. All
> of that is not limited to the respective unique registries for IRAN and
> SYRIA (both countries are concerned with the US District Court of Columbia
> writs). The Writ has no limitation, quite to the contrary. Who said that
> the link between Iranian registrars and ICANN did not exist.  There are
> much more than the first-level domain (ccTLD) to be considered such as the
> second-level domain registration by registrars. What's about IPs? All of
> that enters into IANA, a department of ICANN, duties and performance. So
> apart from trying to predict with little to no chance the outcomes for this
> case, we see that in this situation the current state of Internet
> Governance is far from comfortable. So a lot of work to be done. Again we
> see that without clear definition, and international agreements, it will be
> difficult to find trust, clarity and democratic values. Comments are very
> welcome. Thanks *
> Jean-Christophe Nothias
>
>   *Chief Strategist,*
>
> *Contents and Projects *
> (+41) 79 265 92 75
>  jc.nothias at globalgeneva.net
>  @jc_nothias
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
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>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
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>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
*Mehrzad Azghandi*
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From philipp.mirtl at gmail.com  Fri Aug  1 04:44:23 2014
From: philipp.mirtl at gmail.com (Philipp Mirtl)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2014 10:44:23 +0200
Subject: [governance] The Regime Complex for Managing Global Cyber
 Activities (Joseph S. Nye)
Message-ID: <CAJmnLvvuQCdZAHnUiKhVBy+p=d6+HCVLAD02p967fQ9nBpw9QA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,

For those of you who have not yet come across *Joseph S. Nye's recent piece
on Global Cyber Activities*, please follow the link below:

http://www.cigionline.org/publications/regime-complex-managing-global-cyber-activities

If you already know this paper, sorry for multiposting.

Best regards,

Philipp
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From daniel at digsys.bg  Fri Aug  1 04:59:35 2014
From: daniel at digsys.bg (Daniel Kalchev)
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2014 11:59:35 +0300
Subject: [governance] Fwd: Fwd: Fwd: [Members] US District Court for DC
 - IRAN/SYRIA - ICANN
In-Reply-To: <53B93A3B.6090707@ITforChange.net>
References: <53B928BE.3040603@itforchange.net> <53B93A3B.6090707@ITforChange.net>
Message-ID: <53DB56F7.3070702@digsys.bg>

There are some interesting points, see my comments below.


On 06.07.14 14:59, Guru गुरु wrote:
> I thought this posting on another list may be useful to the discussion 
> on the IGC thread  "Some more legal tangles for ICANN"
> regards,
> Guru
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: 	[Members] US District Court for DC - IRAN/SYRIA - ICANN
> Date: 	Mon, 30 Jun 2014 13:14:12 +0200
> From: 	Jean-Christophe NOTHIAS I The Global Journal 
> <jc.nothias at theglobaljournal.net>
> Reply-To: 	members at justnetcoalition.org
> To: 	Member Just_Net_Coalition <members at justnetcoalition.org>
>
>
>
> Dear JNC members,
>
> I thought I would wrap-up some facts and appreciation of a new case 
> where Plaintiffs have requested the US District Court for the district 
> of Columbia to turn to ICANN in order to seize whatever money, 
> property, credit IRAN and Syria have at ICANN. This is a 'first', and 
> worth to be looked at. Even though we are not legal expert for US law, 
> it is a very interesting issue to look at in an Internet Governance 
> perspective. Like anything related to US law and jurisdiction, this 
> might take years before a conclusion can be reached -  right now these 
> judgements have been made by default as Iran and Syria did not show up 
> to the Court to defend themselves. Still the case is showing that the 
> asymmetric role of the US in terms of Internet Governance is under 
> critical challenge. It also shows that much of what is related to the 
> management of the root zone (address book for the dot_something (.XYZ) 
> is still missing international definition and agreements. This is part 
> of the fact that IG has been into US hands, at least under the current 
> form since 1998 when ICANN was incorporated and when Jon Postel's job 
> at the root zone level was doing until then through IANA was also 
> transfer to ICANN under the same acronym. The new IANA became part of 
> the ICANN that same year Being an 'authority' and a 'department' of 
> ICANN, IANA has no bylaws but is under strict supervision of the US 
> Department of Commerce, through NTIA. Nothing can be change at the 
> root zone level for TLDs (gTLDs or ccTLDs) without the consent of the 
> US DoC. This helps to understand by the same token the role of IANA, 
> as a department of ICANN under a double US oversight, ICANN being 
> itself under contract with the US DoC.

The primary issue in this case, is the decision by the USG to play 
political games, when they devised this "If you don't threat your 
citizens the way we want you to, we will let them sue you in the US 
under our own laws and will 'lawfuly' steal your property in the US. So, 
do as we say!".
More powerful countries, such as Russia and Brasil (and to a lesser 
degree the "western democracy" countries) clearly told the US they do 
not care and they would subject US property in their respective area of 
control to about the same process (or worse).

By creating this procedure, the US has prepared a lot of Pandora Boxes 
or Cans of Worms, waiting to be opened..

As such, it is unfortunate, but quite understandable that some lawyer 
decided to drag ICANN into this mess. Understandable, because ICANN 
demonstrates it has lots of money to spend, is a public "shared 
irresponsibility" entity etc. Typical target for the typical US lawyer.

For many reasons, the ICANN processes are a mess. This too is heaven for 
lawyers. The good news is the community is slowly clearing up the mess. 
The bad news is this is a very slow process (and ICANN is thus 
vulnerable for longer period). The other bad news is there are new 
incentives at ICANN that create even more weak points (even if attempts 
are made to design them properly).

Out of everything else, IANA is the most interesting ... non-entity :)

>
> Some debate took place into the IGC list, and I would start from there.
>
> 1_
> It started here
> http://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-us-terror-victims-now-own-irans-internet/
>
> 2_
> A subscriber to the Civil Society Governance Caucus- IGC elist (Joly 
> McFie) wrote on June 25:
>
> "ICANN licenses the TLDs to different world governments who then are 
> permitted to appoint agents who sell the domain names and their 
> country specific internet suffixes to individuals, businesses and 
> organizations."
>
> 1/ Is this strictly true?
> 2/ Does ICANN have a licence over ccTLDs?
>
> Some honorable subscribers of the IGC list reacted, among others:
>
> From Daniel Kalchev
> /- most ccTLDs were delegated before ICANN was even an idea and most 
> ccTLDs managers are in fact not been appointed by any government./
> /- After all, Internet was, is and will be an worldwide private network./
>
> From Wolfgang Kleinwächter:
> /- This is nonsense. The author of this piece does not understand, how 
> the DNS works. /
>
> From McTim:
> /- This won't go anywhere... Just a lawyer trying to get attention for 
> his case./
> /- The fees paid to ICANN from Iran are exactly zero./
> /
> /
> 3_
> /
> Then I posted On June 28 to the same IGC list the following information:
>
> Here are the 6 "Writs of Attachment 
> <https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_dOI5puxRA9M3hweE9Eel9mVTQ/edit?pli=1>" 
> (5  vs IRAN; 1 vs Syria) as of June 24, 2014, notified to ICANN/IANA 
> by the US District Court for the District of Columbia.
>
>
> So no "if" and no "apparently" as some doubted on the list.
>
> 4_
> There would be postings with opposing views, ones saying that there 
> was nothing to worry about - ICANN would simply answer 'no'- and 
> others saying that this was critical issue for the first-level domain 
> for countries (ccTLD: country-code for Top Level Domain).
> /

This is good, as if we were all of the same opinion, sometimes we would 
be all totally wrong and there would be no balance to help in cases of 
disaster.

> /
>
>
> 5_
> /
> First, to be frank,  I would say that I was a bit disappointed with 
> the comments on the IGC list. Some participants were supposedly able 
> to provide a better perspective on the case. For example, /
> I believe that Wolfgang Kleinwächter, specially since he is working at 
> ICANN, should have provided a better answer to Joly's question. "Non 
> sense" means little if nothing. Sharing and distributing understanding 
> is always worth the effort.
> /
> /
>
> Daniel is quite right in his first assumption (Jon Postel did most of 
> the delegation work prior to the NewCo ICANN/IANA, established in 
> 1998). I would not be overly certain that the majority of ccTLDs 
> mangers are not being appointed by governments. That could be 
> investigated. A ccTLD being considered by governments as part of their 
> "national sovereignty" I would challenge this assertion. National 
> realities are often more subtile. More of a concern in my view is 
> Daniel's idea of a "*worldwide private network*". This has little if 
> no reality. Networks belong to Telecom Operators for the largest part, 
> some being *public*, some *private* (under governmental regulations). 
> Autonomous Systems do also belong to *public* or *private* entities. 
> What can be seen as *worldwide* is "*interconnectivity*" - one can say 
> that nobody owns the Interconnectivity, something essentially untrue 
> when we speak of 'Internet'. A "*private*" thing? I do not see 
> anything else than a *public space* here, where *private* 
> *interests* might indeed be *dominant*.
> /

I fully understand Wolfgang's position here. The Can of Worms, Pandora 
Box etc issues cannot be ignored and sometimes it's better to not dwell 
unnecessarily into details.. publicly.

However, it is a myth that Jon Postel himself made these delegations. 
The pre-ICANN delegation history is very complex and interesting to 
study -- for some reason the people in the know prefer to remain silent. 
Whatever the procedure was, when ICANN was (hastily) implemented, no 
proper process was followed to sort all this stuff out -- despite the 
community at that time held a lot of debates and a lot of good proposals 
were made.

I am also amused, that we still discuss who controls ccTLDs. It is easy 
to check who appointed each and every ccTLD. Even if this requires 
arranging in person meetings and asking each of them individually (first 
hand information, that is). The ccTLDs are not that many and the people 
who run them are usually communicative.

There are almost no exceptions, that at some point in time, national 
governments decided they should take over the respective ccTLD, for many 
different excuses, the most prevalent being "my cousin's son wants to 
play with this".

The Internet is different from other public communication networks. It 
differs in many aspects, including both technical and governance -- but 
all aspects share one common feature: everything on the Internet is 
designed to follow the normal human to human interaction model. In the 
Internet, everyone provides and consumes services to/from everyone else. 
There are sometimes middlemen, who one bright day discover the thing 
works without them, too -- no matter what they do. One could say, that 
the basic principle on which the Internet holds up together is the 
"mutual destruction fear". Like, for example: "Oh, I don't want those 
guys, so let's filter their SMTP server. Great, I won't hear from them 
ever again! Ugh, it turns out a friend of mine communicates with some 
friend of theirs and my friends says they won't talk to me anymore if I 
continue to be such an (insert appropriate cultural expression). So, 
even if I don't particularly like that guys, I am going to enable their 
SMTP server to talk to mine, because of my friend's needs. (or the 
service I provide to someone etc)"

This "Networks belong to Telecom Operators for the largest part" is a 
myth, *they* want you to believe in.
In reality, both your home network and your telecom's 'national 
backbone' have the same value for the Internet and for you. If your home 
network does not function, you can't access the Internet resources no 
matter how "great" the Telecom network is. It may also turn out, you 
don't communicate with your neighbor with the assistance of that 
Telecom, so their existence might be pretty much irrelevant to you. And 
the Internet.

As such, and because the Internet is defined by the end points, that are 
essentially owned/operated by individuals, you could view it as a 
network of private entities. The Internet is designed in such a way, 
that the intermediate network (and whatever other stuff lurks there) is 
irrelevant. If the end nodes can communicate with each other, you have 
Internet. If not -- you have nothing.

Now, Governments, under the guidance of Telecoms and other large 
corporations try to regulate this stuff, with the primary goal to ensure 
those "large investors" continued control and profits. But as long as 
the end nodes continue to not be dumb terminals fully controlled "by the 
network", this is pretty much impossible.

Maybe, I was not precise enough with my statement of the Internet being 
a private network. I did not mean to say the Internet is the private 
network of someone. Hope this never, ever happens. I meant to say the 
Internet is a network of individual entities, usually private persons. 
Private interests, those of the private individuals indeed dominate 
Internet. it is a public space in the sense that participation is not 
restricted.

> /
>
> McTim underestimates the "where" the Court request is leading. A 
> simple "no" by ICANN/IANA/NTIA would not be the end for the US 
> District Court to act.
> McTim is right about the fact that Iran and Syria pay no fees to 
> ICANN, but still this does not evacuate the idea, as per the Court 
> appreciation and own view, that a ccTLD has great value. McTim has 
> acknowledged this fact.
> /

In as much as ccTLD may have great value, it is nothing more than a 
string of letters. A well known one, yes. But transferring the 
responsibility for that string of letters to someone else (what is being 
asked) could very obviously destroy whatever value it might have. It 
*will* also cause direct damage to the material interests of those who 
chose to have a name under that ccTLD.

This is an even bigger Can of Worms/Pandora Box -- is the US court 
prepared to deal with lawsuits and considering compensations for all 
those whose domains get wiped by this act?
This is the kind of "don't even think about it" kind of response ICANN 
should/have given.

Unfortunately, by being a political act, this law needs not follow 
common sense.

> /
>
> Back to Joly's "ICANN Licenses the ccTLDS..." Strictly true? ICANN 
> having a license over ccTLDs
>
> IANA, which is not an incorporate non profit, is a "/department of 
> ICANN/". It is an 'authority' with no legal ground, no bylaws in the 
> US, nor any International recognition. Still it has quite many 
> responsibilities. One major constraint for ICANN/IANA regarding the 
> root zone is that nothing can be changed in the root zone file without 
> an approval by DoC (through NTIA).
> The new IANA (part of the new ICANN) has taken over the continuity of 
> handling the delegation 
> <https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/delegation-2012-02-25-en> of 
> the ccTLDs to registries since Jon Postel died in 1998, days before 
> ICANN was incorporated with Vint Cerf as first president. By then IANA 
> was funded by the US Department of Defense. We should all remember 
> that Postel came to Geneva in 1997 where he intended to establish a 
> non profit, with an international recognition from governments, a non 
> profit that would handle the civilian root zone for the planet. His 
> project was opposed by US diplomats in Geneva at the time.
> /

IANA is *the* authority in what it does. International law nothing to do 
with it. IANA's role is to compile and maintain the list of DNS TLDs and 
various Internet protocol databases of numbers. Someone might have 
oversight of what IANA does, but the entity (no matter how it is 
constitutes) has the ultimate authority "what is which".

Imagine, I build a collection of post stamps. I am the ultimate 
authority over what goes into my collection. Now, imagine my collection 
has become very popular worldwide, is being refered to by many and some 
even use it as their reference point (precisely, what has happened with 
DNS and IANA). Do I cease to be *the* authority of my post stamp collection?
Yes, things might get more complex, but unless the authority itself 
decides to give up and transform somehow, nothing will change.


> /
>
> So to anwser Joly: *Yes, IANA, a department of ICANN delegates (the 
> verb to license would not be strictly right) each ccTLD to a unique 
> entity/registry, but only after the US DoC approval. IANA is also 
> responsible for re-delegation.*
> /
There is an RFC document (RFC1591), that documents the process, criteria 
etc. There is an Framework of Interpretation Working Group of the ccNSO 
to try explain in today's terminology what the intent of this document 
is and how it should be interpreted by IANA (because it became obvious 
that IANA was confused or pressured several times to do things that 
could not be explained by RFC1591).

This RFC1591 does not talk about the US DoC *at all*. Interesting, isn't it?
My interpretation on the current situation is as we know it, because it 
was USG who originally created IANA and they seek some way to preserve 
it, without being too much involved with it, as running such entity is 
not their task.

In the FOI working group we came to the conclusion, that RFC1591 does 
not provide for such a thing as "re-delegation". Such process consists 
of two acts -- the previous manager being removed from responsibility 
for the domain (revocation) and a new manager being tasked with that 
responsibility (delegation).

> /
>
> In the case of IRAN, the unique registry that has received the 
> delegation to handle the ".IR" ccTLD is THE INSTITUTE for RESEARCH in 
> FUNDAMENTAL SCIENCES, based in IRAN, and affiliated with the Iranian 
> Ministry of Science, Research, and Technology founded in 1989 under 
> the name of INSTITUTE for STUDIES in THEORETICAL PHYSICS and 
> MATHEMATICS - this tends to document the fact that the registry for 
> .IR is legitimate part of the state of IRAN. What can the US District 
> Court do about this? Ask for the plaintiffs to become the unique 
> registry for .IR? The new registry would then earn money thanks to the 
> Iranian registrars that would keep using the .IR. Not a bad deal.
> /

More likely, the entity who received the task to manage the .IR domain 
was someone who was working at/affiliated with the said institute. That 
individual likely decided (for various reasons, including their own 
safety) that it is better for them to not be so visible and the 
institute would manage the .IR registry. At least officially. There is 
no evidence, that the institute has a mandate (usually documented in 
their articles for incorporation or another such/related document) that 
they have "managing the .IR domain name registry" as their list of core 
functions. Unlikely they have such an assignment etc from the Iranian 
Government as well. The Iranian government confirming to ICANN that they 
wish/agree that the institute will run the said registry has nothing to 
do with any "property rights" or "ownership"...

What is the proper term for such desires, in the US culture? "Pipe Dreams"?

Running a ccTLD registry I can say this: registrars have contracts with 
the (whatever form) manager of the registry. Not with "the registry" in 
some abstract form. Nothing and nobody can force those registrars to 
sign a contract or pay any money to any other party, to whom the 
previous manager decided to transfer the "business" -- either forced or 
willingly.
This is especially true in such an political case -- chances are most 
.IR registrars are Iranian entities. Do you truly believe they will 
agree to pay money to some US based party that is confiscating their 
country's properties at will...
Most likely, those registrars/registrants will swallow the costs (and 
some, eventually sue the US big time, *in the US*) then move to some 
other TLD.

> /
>
> What would IANA consider as a possible reason to terminate the 
> delegation of the .IR? If we look at what ICANN considers as a 
> possible reason to terminate a registrar accreditation agreement 
> <https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/ra-agreement-2009-05-21-en> (see 5.3 
> of the Registrar Accreditation Agreement, even though it does not seem 
> to have its equivalent with registries). But who said that this could 
> not happen when it comes to a registry issue? Again, in the absence of 
> an international treaty clarifying many obscure points in terms of 
> root zone policy, the many vacuums could be of great amusement to a US 
> District Court. Again, that brings a very serious challenge to the 
> global, transnational governance of the Internet. ICANN is now in a 
> poor situation. Would ICANN give way to the US District Court request, 
> many countries would take the opportunity to fully challenge ICANN in 
> its fundaments. Would ICANN pass the hot potato to someone else (US 
> DoC? IRFS, the Iranian registry? Nobody?) the Court might not like 
> that answer, and might threatened ICANN to comply. We'll see.
> /

There is a very big difference between the gTLDs ICANN created, the 
Registrar business ICANN created and the ccTLDs relationship with ICANN.
Many ccTLDs were created before ICANN existed. Many ccTLDs were created 
before RFC1591 was ever published.
All those ccTLD run perfectly well and serve the public Internet (see my 
comment on the Internet being 'private' above). Nobody wants this to change.

> /
>
> Still we have a pending question: what difference should be made 
> between "to license" and "to delegate" a ccTLD?
> /

I am not a lawyer, but could imagine it's night a day.

 From my "technical" point of view, the delegation process is the act of 
recording who is responsible for the TLD. IANA, as such has no procedure 
to "chose" who the registry will be -- their task is to properly 
maintain record who the party is.

Licensing, is something that requires (pre-existing) regulation. 
Possibly, government-style.

> /
>
> Nobody really owns a domain name, and there are many indications that 
> it could considered in the same way for TLDs. A TLD or domain name 
> 'holder'/'tenant' pays a 'lease' for a domain. If the .COM is the 
> property of ICANN or DoC, then .IR would then be the property of its 
> current tenant. As with any lease, it can end if not renewed or be 
> terminated by the delegating authority (if nobody is ultimate owner). 
> So we definitely have a situation that isnot clear, as a domain name 
> is still not a property but holds intellectual property rights, 
> turning it into a very valuable asset. You do not own the domain, you 
> own the right to use it. This still means that any TLD has a 
> commercial value, including ccTLDs, and is therefore an asset and 
> subject to a Court sequestration warrant or redelegation request. And 
> in this case, the judge is not asking for the moon, I would say.
> /

As always, it is even more complex than this. :)
Consider for a moment, that there can exist an unlimited number of .IR 
ccTLDs. Or, in some of these parallel realities, .IRC could be a gTLD, 
or what they call it there.
We all try very hard to stick to this one reality we have chosen to 
inhabit, making compromises as neccesary, because of the "guaranteed 
mutual destruction" thing. Being a network of individuals, the Internet 
is impossible to be fully regulated, just as it is impossible to fully 
regulate individuals.

To further complicate things, to this day there are still ccTLDs that do 
not charge any fee for their registration services. Further to this, 
most ccTLDs do not pay ICANN any fees for the IANA service. This is 
perhaps because, the ICANN does the IANA service to the USG, not the 
ccTLDs. Any money transfers between ccTLD managers and ICANN are based 
on "we agree to fund you" principle.

> /
>
> Here is an excellent work funded by the US National Science Foundation 
> and ITU related to "Policy, Business, Technical and Operational 
> Considerations for the Management of a country code Top Level Domain 
> (ccTLD) drafted in 2008. It is an interesting document 
> <http://www.itu.int/ITU-D/cyb/ip/docs/itu-draft-cctld-guide.pdf>.
>
> Regarding a possible redelegation, read what 
> <http://www.iana.org/reports/2005/iq-report-05aug2005.pdf> happened to 
> the .IQ (IRAK) in 2005. It's a IANA report worth to read. See again 
> the role played by the US DoC and NTIA. Without putting in a US 
> District Court.
> /

One of the reason swhy the FOI working group was created...

> /
>
> All of that is not limited to the respective unique registries for 
> IRAN and SYRIA (both countries are concerned with the US District 
> Court of Columbia writs). The Writ has no limitation, quite to the 
> contrary. Who said that the link between Iranian registrars and ICANN 
> did not exist.  There are much more than the first-level domain 
> (ccTLD) to be considered such as the second-level domain registration 
> by registrars. What's about IPs? All of that enters into IANA, a 
> department of ICANN, duties and performance.
> /

Like I said, a Pandora Box. So the Iranian Government has done 
something, that the USG did not approve. They then go on an penalize 
(supposedly) Iranian individuals and commercial entities, claiming they 
penalize the Iranian Government. Further, because many international 
entities, including without doubt many US corporations/nonprofits hold 
.IR names too, they get penalized too.

Does this create any pressure to the Iranian Government (the original 
idea behind this little political game). Very likely not.

> /
>
> So apart from trying to predict with little to no chance the outcomes 
> for this case, we see that in this situation the current state of 
> Internet Governance is far from comfortable. So a lot of work to be 
> done. Again we see that without clear definition, and international 
> agreements, it will be difficult to find trust, clarity and democratic 
> values.
> /

Democracy dies centuries ago in ancient Greece and Rome. Remember?

If you understand that the Internet is a network of private entities, 
with their own interests -- everything falls in place. Then the 
"Internet Governance" task becomes one of disseminating knowledge and 
dealing with inter-personal conflicts. Even most wars are based on 
inter-personal conflicts...

Daniel

> /
>
> Comments are very welcome.
>
> Thanks
> /
> Jean-Christophe Nothias
>
> /Chief Strategist,/
> /Contents and Projects
> /
> (+41) 79 265 92 75
> jc.nothias at globalgeneva.net <mailto:jc.nothias at globalgeneva.net>
> @jc_nothias
>

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From nb at bollow.ch  Fri Aug  1 05:54:47 2014
From: nb at bollow.ch (Norbert Bollow)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2014 11:54:47 +0200
Subject: CS consensual statement on MSism WAS Re: [governance] Vint Verf
 tells us the conclusion of the complex IANA transition process
In-Reply-To: <CACTo+v8sdoKWAkcRh=7wZ=97x5yTLcKdvGAVEXwCmKwUD6DYWQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKx4trivGPa211rt_y4598Vanhtv8KLVPqS-=9GRvimFA1h6yw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHuaJtNR9PJD0Q7ECiH4dot4aWtdz4YLKgYi59wKFYxH3eDP-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<53D4F14B.4020103@acm.org>
	<53D50311.8050107@itforchange.net>
	<097101cfa9a9$44395950$ccac0bf0$@gmail.com>
	<20140727170421.21844b47@quill>
	<CACAaNxjdhd5qTTsF=zm2n2zLKMQmpeoSi2zp4nTbpcvowf_BYw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACTo+v8SiCUgYA5RsH=85fbqCa16_qq5bMW5vqeLhj3uMRVnjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACAaNxg+f-wXL3GmF6MZrYXUizXeAJ==rCA-H-s0FV_5oWBVRQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACTo+v-BoKdMFHVwTSPDeQZ0TQh7-Hm_mW_pwh+z5igWxet13A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACTo+v9kD_fuSXe9zLFu6W0kxxNgwEQeAu+FGG-8=dWyYPbtPg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACAaNxgG3YxHYgBVE-=NJp3SYPQWqTaUbJjp=UvYTu_ehUVQbg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACTo+v_iMq3oKGB4AOm2nvN-f+WFPgR8S78mPG-UnnV8RedXwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<20140731215706.559ed5de@quill>
	<CACTo+v-kK_xFpctEKJqV4imRbbVuC=3oQ6hWWb=ykOWj1iWYZg@mail.gmail.com>
	<20140731233346.79517def@quill>
	<CACTo+v8sdoKWAkcRh=7wZ=97x5yTLcKdvGAVEXwCmKwUD6DYWQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140801115447.766941c7@quill>

On Thu, 31 Jul 2014 23:48:39 +0000
Mawaki Chango <kichango at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well, the fact is that the world is not full of "thinkers" and policy
> analysts.

Yes, absolutely - and that is in fact a major part of the point which I
have been trying to make. My category 'a' of “thinkers”, in which
category I would include not only you and me and all the other active
participants on this list, but pretty much all of the influential
participants of today's various Internet governance fora (regardless of
“government”, “civil society”, “private sector” hats), are not in any
way representative of the overall population, or of their views, needs
and concerns. We should not presume to assume that we understand the
views, needs and concerns of the world population well enough even in
the absence of any serious efforts to listen to them.

My other main point is that we also should not presume to think that we
“thinkers” would even in the absence of an effective democratic
accountability somehow collectively make decisions that appropriately
take into consideration the needs and concerns of “those who are not
participating directly” even to the (currently probably extremely
limited) extent that we understand their needs and concerns. 

> And there might even be a whole lot of people in between
> your 'a' and 'b'.

Let's get rid of that problem by defining the category 'b' of
“grass-roots perspectives” as consisting of everyone who is not in
category 'a'.

> Oh, wait... I shouldn't have previously said a
> scaling problem arises _within_ that perspective but rather (and this
> is what I meant) that perspective faces a scaling challenge when
> comes the need to take into account a greater and greater number of
> people, not all of whom are "thinkers" or policy analysts while they
> may even still be able to speak for themselves. (However I don't
> think this clarification changes anything to your response here which
> has started in and is consistent with your earlier response to my
> message prior.)

Yes and of course I don't deny that scaling issues exist in the sense
that coordination costs (of all kinds) increase when the number of
participants increases. I also don't deny that of course there are
people who are not “thinkers” but who want to still speak just for
themselves and who have no interest in becoming part of an advocacy
organization. My point is that so far the overall the participation of
those who are not “thinkers” is so low that we don't have a problem of
dealing with large numbers of them, we have the problem of bringing
their participation up from “totally insignificant” to a better level.

> > As case in point, consider how it has come
> > about that the increase of the number of participants has not
> > caused the IETF to stop functioning.
> 
> I realize your "a/b" seem to be a sort of partitioning of the types of
> audience/participants there are in MSism?

It's certainly like it in that all categorizations are problematic. :-)

> And the IETF type where
> individuals speak for themselves, in your view, is completely
> separate from the other where the main/only challenge would be to
> make sure there are enough variety of inputs to cover all concerns on
> the ground.

Yes, although that is not an essential feature of the view that I'm
trying to present: While I currently can't imagine any way of organizing
a solution to the problems that I've been pointing out which does not
involve such a separation, that may well be a result of lack of better
imagination / better creativity on my part. :-)

> The only problem I have with that is that it looks like
> you were not responding to me (contrary to what your quoting me in
> that email suggests) as much as you were offering a different take
> (your own) about multistakeholder participation. For my part, I was
> responding to McTim who appears to consider the IETF type (he didn't
> explicitly label it IETF though in that particular message of his)
> where individuals would speak for themselves and their ideas be
> evaluated on merits as the model for MSism, any MSism (which would
> mean that the same assumptions that make that breed of MSism work
> should be carried over to any other instance of MSism.) To that I was
> simply responding that that breed of MSism may be good for epistemic
> communities of practice (or communities of your "thinkers" and
> analysts) but it and its assumptions are not scalable to addressing
> global policy issues with adequate inclusiveness. It looks like what
> you did is to put 'a' and 'b' into silos and then claim there's no
> scaling problem since by making them into silos you have removed the
> possibility for a need to scale from a-type to b-type.

Because from the perspective of the meaning that the word “scaling” has
for me, extending “from a-type to [in addition also consider] b-type
[viewpoints]” is not a matter of scaling, it is a different type of
problem. 

I wonder if it might be possible to reconcile your view “it is a
challenge of scaling up” and my view “the problem which exists here is
not a problem of scalability” by recognizing that we have been using
different notions/concepts of “scalability”, with my understanding
of the term being narrower than yours. So that when you wrote about the
“challenge of scaling up”, I might have understood those words quite
differently from how you would have meant them, and I now think that
this might be what caused me to disagree so vehemently.

Of course, in regard to the assertion that I was speaking from my
perspective and in the process putting into words “a different take (my
own) about multistakeholder participation”, I must admit that indeed I
am “guilty as charged.” :-)

> Anyway, I think there are global public policy issues which the 'a'
> crowd and the 'b' crowd will need to come together and address (at
> least for which they and everybody in between will be legitimate
> stakeholders.) I think whenever that happens, again at global level,
> there is one way or the other a scaling challenge --although I'm not
> saying this cannot be resolved. Even if it's about making sure all
> meaningful issues are covered, it's not the same to make sure they
> are for 20 million people as for 1 billion people, overlaps
> notwithstanding (eg, multiple languages and cultural differences
> remain, to name but a couple of factors.)

Is there really a fundamental difference in how parliamentary democracy
works in India which has well over a billion people, in comparison to
how it works in smaller countries?

> You may also note that even
> democratic representation (representative democracy) is also a
> response to a scaling problem (and as you rightly point out, it's
> already complicated enough at national level...). If you still don't
> see it that way, we may agree to disagree on this bit.

I see representative democracy as a formalized and indeed “scaled up”
version --with (in the ideal case at least) well-instituted
accountability-- of a form of specialization which exists already at
the smallest level of a family or a small firm or other small
organization, where also governance issues exist and not all members of
the group deal with them equally. For example, in very many families,
it's the mother who combines the roles of the “thinkers”, and the
“parliament”, and the “government” all in one person, in regard to the
family's internal matters of governance.

Nota bene this form of specialization can also be “scaled up” in
different ways, resulting in non-democratic forms of government: It is
a political choice to insist that the governance of countries must be
democratic. Likewise it is also a political choice which I am making
when I insist that the governance of information society issues must
also be democratic. 

Greetings,
Norbert

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From peter.hellmonds at hellmonds.eu  Fri Aug  1 06:30:59 2014
From: peter.hellmonds at hellmonds.eu (Peter H. Hellmonds)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2014 12:30:59 +0200
Subject: CS consensual statement on MSism WAS Re: [governance] Vint Verf
 tells us the conclusion of the complex IANA transition process
In-Reply-To: <20140801115447.766941c7@quill>
References: <CAKx4trivGPa211rt_y4598Vanhtv8KLVPqS-=9GRvimFA1h6yw@mail.gmail.com> <CAHuaJtNR9PJD0Q7ECiH4dot4aWtdz4YLKgYi59wKFYxH3eDP-Q@mail.gmail.com> <53D4F14B.4020103@acm.org> <53D50311.8050107@itforchange.net> <097101cfa9a9$44395950$ccac0bf0$@gmail.com> <20140727170421.21844b47@quill> <CACAaNxjdhd5qTTsF=zm2n2zLKMQmpeoSi2zp4nTbpcvowf_BYw@mail.gmail.com> <CACTo+v8SiCUgYA5RsH=85fbqCa16_qq5bMW5vqeLhj3uMRVnjw@mail.gmail.com> <CACAaNxg+f-wXL3GmF6MZrYXUizXeAJ==rCA-H-s0FV_5oWBVRQ@mail.gmail.com> <CACTo+v-BoKdMFHVwTSPDeQZ0TQh7-Hm_mW_pwh+z5igWxet13A@mail.gmail.com> <CACTo+v9kD_fuSXe9zLFu6W0kxxNgwEQeAu+FGG-8=dWyYPbtPg@mail.gmail.com> <CACAaNxgG3YxHYgBVE-=NJp3SYPQWqTaUbJjp=UvYTu_ehUVQbg@mail.gmail.com> <CACTo+v_iMq3oKGB4AOm2nvN-f+WFPgR8S78mPG-UnnV8RedXwg@mail.gmail.com> <20140731215706.559ed5de@quill> <CACTo+v-kK_xFpctEKJqV4imRbbVuC=3oQ6hWWb=ykOWj1iWYZg@mail.gmail.com> <20140731233346.79517def@quill> <CACTo+v8sdoKWAkcRh=7wZ=97x5yTLcKdvGAVEXwCmKwUD6DYWQ@mail.gmail.com> <20140801115447.!
 766941c7@
 quill>
Message-ID: <5746C4C6-4E4F-43F7-A043-4B3912439822@hellmonds.eu>

Hi Norbert 

You can resolve the scaling issue by recognizing that scaling has both a quantitative and a qualitative aspect. You may have interpreted scaling as a more quantitative issue to which you juxtaposed that it's not just about numbers. Right, there is also a qualitative aspect to scaling, i.e. how to integrate the marginalized into a discourse of which they probably not only not know that it exists but also in all likelihood have no interest in participating. 

Peter H. Hellmonds
<peter.hellmonds at hellmonds.eu>
+49 (160) 360-2852

On 01.08.2014, at 11:54, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch> wrote:

On Thu, 31 Jul 2014 23:48:39 +0000
Mawaki Chango <kichango at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well, the fact is that the world is not full of "thinkers" and policy
> analysts.

Yes, absolutely - and that is in fact a major part of the point which I
have been trying to make. My category 'a' of “thinkers”, in which
category I would include not only you and me and all the other active
participants on this list, but pretty much all of the influential
participants of today's various Internet governance fora (regardless of
“government”, “civil society”, “private sector” hats), are not in any
way representative of the overall population, or of their views, needs
and concerns. We should not presume to assume that we understand the
views, needs and concerns of the world population well enough even in
the absence of any serious efforts to listen to them.

My other main point is that we also should not presume to think that we
“thinkers” would even in the absence of an effective democratic
accountability somehow collectively make decisions that appropriately
take into consideration the needs and concerns of “those who are not
participating directly” even to the (currently probably extremely
limited) extent that we understand their needs and concerns. 

> And there might even be a whole lot of people in between
> your 'a' and 'b'.

Let's get rid of that problem by defining the category 'b' of
“grass-roots perspectives” as consisting of everyone who is not in
category 'a'.

> Oh, wait... I shouldn't have previously said a
> scaling problem arises _within_ that perspective but rather (and this
> is what I meant) that perspective faces a scaling challenge when
> comes the need to take into account a greater and greater number of
> people, not all of whom are "thinkers" or policy analysts while they
> may even still be able to speak for themselves. (However I don't
> think this clarification changes anything to your response here which
> has started in and is consistent with your earlier response to my
> message prior.)

Yes and of course I don't deny that scaling issues exist in the sense
that coordination costs (of all kinds) increase when the number of
participants increases. I also don't deny that of course there are
people who are not “thinkers” but who want to still speak just for
themselves and who have no interest in becoming part of an advocacy
organization. My point is that so far the overall the participation of
those who are not “thinkers” is so low that we don't have a problem of
dealing with large numbers of them, we have the problem of bringing
their participation up from “totally insignificant” to a better level.

>> As case in point, consider how it has come
>> about that the increase of the number of participants has not
>> caused the IETF to stop functioning.
> 
> I realize your "a/b" seem to be a sort of partitioning of the types of
> audience/participants there are in MSism?

It's certainly like it in that all categorizations are problematic. :-)

> And the IETF type where
> individuals speak for themselves, in your view, is completely
> separate from the other where the main/only challenge would be to
> make sure there are enough variety of inputs to cover all concerns on
> the ground.

Yes, although that is not an essential feature of the view that I'm
trying to present: While I currently can't imagine any way of organizing
a solution to the problems that I've been pointing out which does not
involve such a separation, that may well be a result of lack of better
imagination / better creativity on my part. :-)

> The only problem I have with that is that it looks like
> you were not responding to me (contrary to what your quoting me in
> that email suggests) as much as you were offering a different take
> (your own) about multistakeholder participation. For my part, I was
> responding to McTim who appears to consider the IETF type (he didn't
> explicitly label it IETF though in that particular message of his)
> where individuals would speak for themselves and their ideas be
> evaluated on merits as the model for MSism, any MSism (which would
> mean that the same assumptions that make that breed of MSism work
> should be carried over to any other instance of MSism.) To that I was
> simply responding that that breed of MSism may be good for epistemic
> communities of practice (or communities of your "thinkers" and
> analysts) but it and its assumptions are not scalable to addressing
> global policy issues with adequate inclusiveness. It looks like what
> you did is to put 'a' and 'b' into silos and then claim there's no
> scaling problem since by making them into silos you have removed the
> possibility for a need to scale from a-type to b-type.

Because from the perspective of the meaning that the word “scaling” has
for me, extending “from a-type to [in addition also consider] b-type
[viewpoints]” is not a matter of scaling, it is a different type of
problem. 

I wonder if it might be possible to reconcile your view “it is a
challenge of scaling up” and my view “the problem which exists here is
not a problem of scalability” by recognizing that we have been using
different notions/concepts of “scalability”, with my understanding
of the term being narrower than yours. So that when you wrote about the
“challenge of scaling up”, I might have understood those words quite
differently from how you would have meant them, and I now think that
this might be what caused me to disagree so vehemently.

Of course, in regard to the assertion that I was speaking from my
perspective and in the process putting into words “a different take (my
own) about multistakeholder participation”, I must admit that indeed I
am “guilty as charged.” :-)

> Anyway, I think there are global public policy issues which the 'a'
> crowd and the 'b' crowd will need to come together and address (at
> least for which they and everybody in between will be legitimate
> stakeholders.) I think whenever that happens, again at global level,
> there is one way or the other a scaling challenge --although I'm not
> saying this cannot be resolved. Even if it's about making sure all
> meaningful issues are covered, it's not the same to make sure they
> are for 20 million people as for 1 billion people, overlaps
> notwithstanding (eg, multiple languages and cultural differences
> remain, to name but a couple of factors.)

Is there really a fundamental difference in how parliamentary democracy
works in India which has well over a billion people, in comparison to
how it works in smaller countries?

> You may also note that even
> democratic representation (representative democracy) is also a
> response to a scaling problem (and as you rightly point out, it's
> already complicated enough at national level...). If you still don't
> see it that way, we may agree to disagree on this bit.

I see representative democracy as a formalized and indeed “scaled up”
version --with (in the ideal case at least) well-instituted
accountability-- of a form of specialization which exists already at
the smallest level of a family or a small firm or other small
organization, where also governance issues exist and not all members of
the group deal with them equally. For example, in very many families,
it's the mother who combines the roles of the “thinkers”, and the
“parliament”, and the “government” all in one person, in regard to the
family's internal matters of governance.

Nota bene this form of specialization can also be “scaled up” in
different ways, resulting in non-democratic forms of government: It is
a political choice to insist that the governance of countries must be
democratic. Likewise it is also a political choice which I am making
when I insist that the governance of information society issues must
also be democratic. 

Greetings,
Norbert

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From williams.deirdre at gmail.com  Fri Aug  1 07:51:26 2014
From: williams.deirdre at gmail.com (Deirdre Williams)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2014 07:51:26 -0400
Subject: CS consensual statement on MSism WAS Re: [governance] Vint Verf
 tells us the conclusion of the complex IANA transition process
In-Reply-To: <2A88133F001C4A81824DE9182320EAA8@Toshiba>
References: <20140729163109.439fa0fd@quill> <53DADF64.1000609@eff.org> <2A88133F001C4A81824DE9182320EAA8@Toshiba>
Message-ID: <CAMz5XN7c3ta4N=vV4aBXhcaFmhSTGTx+L6g1z-9Rzq8Wwjf_bg@mail.gmail.com>

Considering the topic of this discussion should we examine our own process
as well? Is this how we think "multistakeholder process" should work - a
largish voluntary participation in discussion of an issue and then break
into a (closed) committee? Can you arrive at true consensus from a
committee process?
These questions all came up in discussion at the LACIGF in Argentina 2013
when there was a very interesting breakout session on this issue. It does
seem as if the technology that has "created" this problem by making global
inclusion a real possibility should also be able to solve it. Jeremy - will
liquidfeedback do that? can it accommodate people who think and express
themselves in languages other than English for example? (The language issue
was very evident in Argentina) And how technically able do you need to be
to use it, because the constituency of people who are affected (see earlier
definitions of stakeholder that have been suggested) is much greater than
those with technical ability.
A problem with NETmundial was the perception that, in the end, important
parts of the decision-making were done in a closed session.


On 1 August 2014 00:52, Ian Peter <ian.peter at ianpeter.com> wrote:

> I'd b happy to work with a smaller group on this. If we have a
> representative group with our divergent opinions represented, that would
> help to get to some words likely to be acceptable to the larger group.
>
> Ian
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Jeremy Malcolm
> Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 10:29 AM
> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org ; bestbits at lists.bestbits.net
>
> Subject: Re: CS consensual statement on MSism WAS Re: [governance] Vint
> Verf tells us the conclusion of the complex IANA transition process
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
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>
>


-- 
“The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
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From jyoti at cis-india.org  Fri Aug  1 09:03:06 2014
From: jyoti at cis-india.org (Jyoti Panday)
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2014 18:33:06 +0530
Subject: [governance] IGF Call for Public Input - Contribute Policy
 Questions
In-Reply-To: <53DB8F64.5000406@cis-india.org>
References: <53DB8F64.5000406@cis-india.org>
Message-ID: <53DB900A.50605@cis-india.org>

Dear All,

The Working Group on Improvements to the IGF in its report identified
the development of tangible outcomes as a way for the IGF to continue to
perform successfully its intended role of addressing issues related to
public policy in a bottom-up, multistakeholder fashion.

The Working Group stated that "The IGF Secretariat and the MAG should
reach out and continue to invite all stakeholders to be more actively
involved in the preparation of the IGF, including by identifying
pertinent key policy questions around which main sessions for the IGF
will be structured."

The IGF Secretariat based on this recommendation the IGF Secretariat is
inviting the community to share its views on the type of public policy
questions that could be addressed and discussed at the 9th Annual
Internet Governance Forum meeting’s main/focus sessions.

Each stakeholder is invited to submit no more than three (3) questions
for each of the following sessions:

- Policies Enabling Access, Growth and Development on the Internet

- Towards a Common Understanding of Network Neutrality

- Evolution of Internet Governance Ecosystem and the Role of the IGF

- IANA Functions: NTIA's Stewardship Transition and ICANN's
Accountability Process

- Taking Stock / Emerging Issues

The deadline for submitting your questions is 4 August 2014. Questions
should be sent to discussion_questions at intgovforum.org.

Please see details of the call for public input here:
http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/1885-call-for-public-input

Apologies for cross posting.

Regards,
-- 
Jyoti Panday
Program Officer, Centre for Internet and Society
T: +91 9717 526223 | W: http://cis-india.org





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From gurstein at gmail.com  Fri Aug  1 10:16:49 2014
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2014 07:16:49 -0700
Subject: [governance] =?UTF-8?Q?FW=3A_Data_stored_overseas_should_be_acces?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?sible_to_US_government=2C_judge_rules_=E2=80=94_RT_USA?=
In-Reply-To: <53DB4FF2.8020907@gmail.com>
References: <53DB4FF2.8020907@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <008c01cfad93$3c4bebc0$b4e3c340$@gmail.com>

http://rt.com/usa/177104-microsoft-preska-ireland-server/

Another nail in the coffin for "the cloud" and more...?

M


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From peter.hellmonds at hellmonds.eu  Fri Aug  1 10:44:06 2014
From: peter.hellmonds at hellmonds.eu (Peter H. Hellmonds)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2014 16:44:06 +0200
Subject: [governance] =?UTF-8?Q?FW=3A_Data_stored_overseas_should_be_a?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?ccessible_to_US_government=2C_judge_rules_=E2=80=94_RT_USA?=
In-Reply-To: <008c01cfad93$3c4bebc0$b4e3c340$@gmail.com>
References: <53DB4FF2.8020907@gmail.com> <008c01cfad93$3c4bebc0$b4e3c340$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <70DA6376-8EAA-41D1-BDC1-8C37CA605FC6@hellmonds.eu>

No, not a nail in cloud services per se, but just another narrow-sighted decision that will hurt US-based business interests and by extension US public policy interests. It will be just another sign for European companies that they cannot entrust their corporate data to cloud services of companies that are US-based or otherwise subject to US jurisdiction. I'm pretty sure you don't need RT (Russia Today) for that insight as I'm sure the Wall Street Journal and Forbes will already be blowing in the same horn, just as US businesses are. The big winners will be companies that are in "secure" locations, such as Switzerland, and which have little to no connections and business interests in the US. I read recently that one such Swiss cloud service has seen its business double after the Snowden revelations. 

Btw, there are open source cloud servers available that you can install in a self-hosted environment, either at home or at your favorite non-US ISP Webspace, depending on your bandwidth and security/privacy needs. ;-)

On 01 Aug 2014, at 16:16, "michael gurstein" <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:

http://rt.com/usa/177104-microsoft-preska-ireland-server/

Another nail in the coffin for "the cloud" and more...?

M


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From suresh at hserus.net  Fri Aug  1 10:58:12 2014
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2014 20:28:12 +0530
Subject: [governance] =?UTF-8?Q?FW=3A_Data_stored_overseas_should_be_a?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?ccessible_to_US_government=2C_judge_rules_=E2=80=94_RT_USA?=
In-Reply-To: <70DA6376-8EAA-41D1-BDC1-8C37CA605FC6@hellmonds.eu>
References: <53DB4FF2.8020907@gmail.com>
 <008c01cfad93$3c4bebc0$b4e3c340$@gmail.com>
 <70DA6376-8EAA-41D1-BDC1-8C37CA605FC6@hellmonds.eu>
Message-ID: <1479213d0f0.27e9.4f968dcf8ecd56c9cb8acab6370fcfe0@hserus.net>

Yes of course except for the additional services such as disaster recovery, 
security, identity management and such

It also speaks volumes for businesses that they are willing to challenge 
requests for offshore data in court.



On 1 August 2014 8:14:59 pm "Peter H. Hellmonds" 
<peter.hellmonds at hellmonds.eu> wrote:

> No, not a nail in cloud services per se, but just another narrow-sighted 
> decision that will hurt US-based business interests and by extension US 
> public policy interests. It will be just another sign for European 
> companies that they cannot entrust their corporate data to cloud services 
> of companies that are US-based or otherwise subject to US jurisdiction. I'm 
> pretty sure you don't need RT (Russia Today) for that insight as I'm sure 
> the Wall Street Journal and Forbes will already be blowing in the same 
> horn, just as US businesses are. The big winners will be companies that are 
> in "secure" locations, such as Switzerland, and which have little to no 
> connections and business interests in the US. I read recently that one such 
> Swiss cloud service has seen its business double after the Snowden revelations.
>
> Btw, there are open source cloud servers available that you can install in 
> a self-hosted environment, either at home or at your favorite non-US ISP 
> Webspace, depending on your bandwidth and security/privacy needs. ;-)
>
> On 01 Aug 2014, at 16:16, "michael gurstein" <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> http://rt.com/usa/177104-microsoft-preska-ireland-server/
>
> Another nail in the coffin for "the cloud" and more...?
>
> M
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
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From daniel at digsys.bg  Fri Aug  1 11:21:43 2014
From: daniel at digsys.bg (Daniel Kalchev)
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2014 18:21:43 +0300
Subject: [governance] =?UTF-8?Q?FW=3A_Data_stored_overseas_should_be_a?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?ccessible_to_US_government=2C_judge_rules_=E2=80=94_RT_USA?=
In-Reply-To: <1479213d0f0.27e9.4f968dcf8ecd56c9cb8acab6370fcfe0@hserus.net>
References: <53DB4FF2.8020907@gmail.com> <008c01cfad93$3c4bebc0$b4e3c340$@gmail.com> <70DA6376-8EAA-41D1-BDC1-8C37CA605FC6@hellmonds.eu> <1479213d0f0.27e9.4f968dcf8ecd56c9cb8acab6370fcfe0@hserus.net>
Message-ID: <53DBB087.9000303@digsys.bg>

You mean, "spying on you with your consent" as identity management? ;-)

There is *nothing* that an US based corporation has as technology, which 
is not readily available elsewhere. The "difference" is the easy access 
to funds and USG "protection". There is no free lunch though.

Daniel


On 01.08.14 17:58, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote:
> Yes of course except for the additional services such as disaster 
> recovery, security, identity management and such
>
> It also speaks volumes for businesses that they are willing to 
> challenge requests for offshore data in court.
>
>
>
> On 1 August 2014 8:14:59 pm "Peter H. Hellmonds" 
> <peter.hellmonds at hellmonds.eu> wrote:
>
>> No, not a nail in cloud services per se, but just another 
>> narrow-sighted decision that will hurt US-based business interests 
>> and by extension US public policy interests. It will be just another 
>> sign for European companies that they cannot entrust their corporate 
>> data to cloud services of companies that are US-based or otherwise 
>> subject to US jurisdiction. I'm pretty sure you don't need RT (Russia 
>> Today) for that insight as I'm sure the Wall Street Journal and 
>> Forbes will already be blowing in the same horn, just as US 
>> businesses are. The big winners will be companies that are in 
>> "secure" locations, such as Switzerland, and which have little to no 
>> connections and business interests in the US. I read recently that 
>> one such Swiss cloud service has seen its business double after the 
>> Snowden revelations.
>>
>> Btw, there are open source cloud servers available that you can 
>> install in a self-hosted environment, either at home or at your 
>> favorite non-US ISP Webspace, depending on your bandwidth and 
>> security/privacy needs. ;-)
>>
>> On 01 Aug 2014, at 16:16, "michael gurstein" <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> http://rt.com/usa/177104-microsoft-preska-ireland-server/
>>
>> Another nail in the coffin for "the cloud" and more...?
>>
>> M
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>
>
>


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From gurstein at gmail.com  Fri Aug  1 12:41:48 2014
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2014 09:41:48 -0700
Subject: [governance] FW: Data stored overseas should be accessible to
 US government, judge rules - RT USA
In-Reply-To: <70DA6376-8EAA-41D1-BDC1-8C37CA605FC6@hellmonds.eu>
References: <53DB4FF2.8020907@gmail.com> <008c01cfad93$3c4bebc0$b4e3c340$@gmail.com> <70DA6376-8EAA-41D1-BDC1-8C37CA605FC6@hellmonds.eu>
Message-ID: <01a501cfada7$7dfcb1d0$79f61570$@gmail.com>

Is there any reason that other countries/jurisdictions won't follow the US
courts in this (assuming that the judgment stands)?

M

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter H. Hellmonds [mailto:peter.hellmonds at hellmonds.eu] 
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 7:44 AM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; michael gurstein
Cc: <members at justnetcoalition.org>
Subject: Re: [governance] FW: Data stored overseas should be accessible to
US government, judge rules - RT USA

No, not a nail in cloud services per se, but just another narrow-sighted
decision that will hurt US-based business interests and by extension US
public policy interests. It will be just another sign for European companies
that they cannot entrust their corporate data to cloud services of companies
that are US-based or otherwise subject to US jurisdiction. I'm pretty sure
you don't need RT (Russia Today) for that insight as I'm sure the Wall
Street Journal and Forbes will already be blowing in the same horn, just as
US businesses are. The big winners will be companies that are in "secure"
locations, such as Switzerland, and which have little to no connections and
business interests in the US. I read recently that one such Swiss cloud
service has seen its business double after the Snowden revelations. 

Btw, there are open source cloud servers available that you can install in a
self-hosted environment, either at home or at your favorite non-US ISP
Webspace, depending on your bandwidth and security/privacy needs. ;-)

On 01 Aug 2014, at 16:16, "michael gurstein" <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:

http://rt.com/usa/177104-microsoft-preska-ireland-server/

Another nail in the coffin for "the cloud" and more...?

M


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From kichango at gmail.com  Fri Aug  1 13:09:41 2014
From: kichango at gmail.com (Mawaki Chango)
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2014 17:09:41 +0000
Subject: CS consensual statement on MSism WAS Re: [governance] Vint Verf
 tells us the conclusion of the complex IANA transition process
In-Reply-To: <20140801115447.766941c7@quill>
References: <CAKx4trivGPa211rt_y4598Vanhtv8KLVPqS-=9GRvimFA1h6yw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHuaJtNR9PJD0Q7ECiH4dot4aWtdz4YLKgYi59wKFYxH3eDP-Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <53D4F14B.4020103@acm.org> <53D50311.8050107@itforchange.net>
 <097101cfa9a9$44395950$ccac0bf0$@gmail.com>
 <20140727170421.21844b47@quill>
 <CACAaNxjdhd5qTTsF=zm2n2zLKMQmpeoSi2zp4nTbpcvowf_BYw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACTo+v8SiCUgYA5RsH=85fbqCa16_qq5bMW5vqeLhj3uMRVnjw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACAaNxg+f-wXL3GmF6MZrYXUizXeAJ==rCA-H-s0FV_5oWBVRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACTo+v-BoKdMFHVwTSPDeQZ0TQh7-Hm_mW_pwh+z5igWxet13A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACTo+v9kD_fuSXe9zLFu6W0kxxNgwEQeAu+FGG-8=dWyYPbtPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACAaNxgG3YxHYgBVE-=NJp3SYPQWqTaUbJjp=UvYTu_ehUVQbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACTo+v_iMq3oKGB4AOm2nvN-f+WFPgR8S78mPG-UnnV8RedXwg@mail.gmail.com>
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 <CACTo+v8sdoKWAkcRh=7wZ=97x5yTLcKdvGAVEXwCmKwUD6DYWQ@mail.gmail.com>
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From kichango at gmail.com  Fri Aug  1 13:21:02 2014
From: kichango at gmail.com (Mawaki Chango)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2014 17:21:02 +0000
Subject: CS consensual statement on MSism WAS Re: [governance] Vint Verf
 tells us the conclusion of the complex IANA transition process
In-Reply-To: <b0c48dc154ed6c1ede7e1fb568a3e8@ip-10-0-3-57>
References: <CAKx4trivGPa211rt_y4598Vanhtv8KLVPqS-=9GRvimFA1h6yw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHuaJtNR9PJD0Q7ECiH4dot4aWtdz4YLKgYi59wKFYxH3eDP-Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <53D4F14B.4020103@acm.org> <53D50311.8050107@itforchange.net>
 <097101cfa9a9$44395950$ccac0bf0$@gmail.com> <20140727170421.21844b47@quill>
 <CACAaNxjdhd5qTTsF=zm2n2zLKMQmpeoSi2zp4nTbpcvowf_BYw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACTo+v8SiCUgYA5RsH=85fbqCa16_qq5bMW5vqeLhj3uMRVnjw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACAaNxg+f-wXL3GmF6MZrYXUizXeAJ==rCA-H-s0FV_5oWBVRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACTo+v-BoKdMFHVwTSPDeQZ0TQh7-Hm_mW_pwh+z5igWxet13A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACTo+v9kD_fuSXe9zLFu6W0kxxNgwEQeAu+FGG-8=dWyYPbtPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACAaNxgG3YxHYgBVE-=NJp3SYPQWqTaUbJjp=UvYTu_ehUVQbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACTo+v_iMq3oKGB4AOm2nvN-f+WFPgR8S78mPG-UnnV8RedXwg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140731215706.559ed5de@quill> <CACTo+v-kK_xFpctEKJqV4imRbbVuC=3oQ6hWWb=ykOWj1iWYZg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140731233346.79517def@quill> <CACTo+v8sdoKWAkcRh=7wZ=97x5yTLcKdvGAVEXwCmKwUD6DYWQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140801115447.766941c7@quill> <b0c48dc154ed6c1ede7e1fb568a3e8@ip-10-0-3-57>
Message-ID: <CACTo+v-XN2KWzMvohEBRNX6zSj+tUVWSZv80mdw7Bx3DgkFE9A@mail.gmail.com>

See below. Resending with a little fix, my apologies.

Sent using CloudMagic
<https://cloudmagic.com/k/d/mailapp?ct=pa&cv=5.0.32&pv=4.4.2>

(Sorry,  couldn't clip the old message from my mobile device as much as I
had wanted to.)

On Fri, Aug 01, 2014 at 9:54 AM, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch> wrote:

On Thu, 31 Jul 2014 23:48:39 +0000
Mawaki Chango <kichango at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well, the fact is that the world is not full of "thinkers" and policy
> analysts.

Yes, absolutely - and that is in fact a major part of the point which I
have been trying to make. My category 'a' of "thinkers", in which
category I would include not only you and me and all the other active
participants on this list, but pretty much all of the influential
participants of today's various Internet governance fora (regardless of
"government", "civil society", "private sector" hats), are not in any
way representative of the overall population, or of their views, needs
and concerns. We should not presume to assume that we understand the
views, needs and concerns of the world population well enough even in
the absence of any serious efforts to listen to them.

Agree.

My other main point is that we also should not presume to think that we
"thinkers" would even in the absence of an effective democratic
accountability somehow collectively make decisions that appropriately
take into consideration the needs and concerns of "those who are not
participating directly" even to the (currently probably extremely
limited) extent that we understand their needs and concerns.

Agree.

> And there might even be a whole lot of people in between
> your 'a' and 'b'.

Let's get rid of that problem by defining the category 'b' of
"grass-roots perspectives" as consisting of everyone who is not in
category 'a'.

Ok

> Oh, wait... I shouldn't have previously said a
> scaling problem arises _within_ that perspective but rather (and this
> is what I meant) that perspective faces a scaling challenge when
> comes the need to take into account a greater and greater number of
> people, not all of whom are "thinkers" or policy analysts while they
> may even still be able to speak for themselves. (However I don't
> think this clarification changes anything to your response here which
> has started in and is consistent with your earlier response to my
> message prior.)

Yes and of course I don't deny that scaling issues exist in the sense
that coordination costs (of all kinds) increase when the number of
participants increases. I also don't deny that of course there are
people who are not "thinkers" but who want to still speak just for
themselves and who have no interest in becoming part of an advocacy
organization.

Good!

My point is that so far the overall the participation of
those who are not "thinkers" is so low that we don't have a problem of
dealing with large numbers of them, we have the problem of bringing
their participation up from "totally insignificant" to a better level.


I see. That certainly is a priority.
No problem. It just seems to me that since the a-type is self-selecting,
there's no solid basis to predict till when they will remain at a
manageable size by the current ptocess provisions without some people
giving up their willing to participate or part of their contribution
potential. And you want them NOT to remain at such size indefinitely since
you want more and more participation (which, granted, is the first priority
to occur before the question of scale actually does -- on that I totally
understand your point as a "theoretical prioritization" and I accept its
empirical implications only to the extent that we realize one does not need
to wait for an actual/empirical scaling problem before helping solve it by
designing a priori a system that can cope with it, since the problem is
predictable).

On this latter note I tend to agree with Peter (in a later message) on the
need to keep in mind that it is a qualitative as well as a quantitative
problem.

Of course, in regard to the assertion that I was speaking from my

perspective and in the process putting into words "a different take (my
own) about multistakeholder participation", I must admit that indeed I
am "guilty as charged." :-)

> Anyway, I think there are global public policy issues which the 'a'
> crowd and the 'b' crowd will need to come together and address (at
> least for which they and everybody in between will be legitimate
> stakeholders.) I think whenever that happens, again at global level,
> there is one way or the other a scaling challenge --although I'm not
> saying this cannot be resolved. Even if it's about making sure all
> meaningful issues are covered, it's not the same to make sure they
> are for 20 million people as for 1 billion people, overlaps
> notwithstanding (eg, multiple languages and cultural differences
> remain, to name but a couple of factors.)

Is there really a fundamental difference in how parliamentary democracy
works in India which has well over a billion people, in comparison to
how it works in smaller countries?

In fact I don't know how it works in India. I am from Togo. I can just
guess that the way it works in India has a little something to do with the
way it works in UK, just as the way it works in Togo has a little something
to do with the way it works in France. But I may be totally wrong because
there may be various features of "localization"/acculturation and
historical contingencies.


> You may also note that even
> democratic representation (representative democracy) is also a
> response to a scaling problem (and as you rightly point out, it's
> already complicated enough at national level...). If you still don't
> see it that way, we may agree to disagree on this bit.

I see representative democracy as a formalized and indeed "scaled up"
version --with (in the ideal case at least) well-instituted
accountability-- of a form of specialization which exists already at
the smallest level of a family or a small firm or other small
organization, where also governance issues exist and not all members of
the group deal with them equally. For example, in very many families,
it's the mother who combines the roles of the "thinkers", and the
"parliament", and the "government" all in one person, in regard to the
family's internal matters of governance.

Nota bene this form of specialization can also be "scaled up" in
different ways, resulting in non-democratic forms of government:


Indeed it may, for democracy is not a given and very smart people in
history argued for less individual freedom-friendly forms of political
governance.

Thanks,

Mawaki


>
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From suresh at hserus.net  Fri Aug  1 16:12:06 2014
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2014 01:42:06 +0530
Subject: [governance] =?UTF-8?Q?FW=3A_Data_stored_overseas_should_be_a?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?ccessible_to_US_government=2C_judge_rules_=E2=80=94_RT_USA?=
In-Reply-To: <53DBB087.9000303@digsys.bg>
References: <53DB4FF2.8020907@gmail.com> <008c01cfad93$3c4bebc0$b4e3c340$@gmail.com> <70DA6376-8EAA-41D1-BDC1-8C37CA605FC6@hellmonds.eu> <1479213d0f0.27e9.4f968dcf8ecd56c9cb8acab6370fcfe0@hserus.net> <53DBB087.9000303@digsys.bg>
Message-ID: <21284A4C-1E38-4A28-AF57-BB9AA09E31D8@hserus.net>

Readily available elsewhere for password management, single signon and strong encryption?

Depends on how DIY a guy you are and how much time and money you spend to put it all together.

--srs (iPad)

> On 01-Aug-2014, at 20:51, Daniel Kalchev <daniel at digsys.bg> wrote:
> 
> You mean, "spying on you with your consent" as identity management? ;-)
> 
> There is *nothing* that an US based corporation has as technology, which is not readily available elsewhere. The "difference" is the easy access to funds and USG "protection". There is no free lunch though.
> 
> Daniel
> 
> 
>> On 01.08.14 17:58, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote:
>> Yes of course except for the additional services such as disaster recovery, security, identity management and such
>> 
>> It also speaks volumes for businesses that they are willing to challenge requests for offshore data in court.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 1 August 2014 8:14:59 pm "Peter H. Hellmonds" <peter.hellmonds at hellmonds.eu> wrote:
>>> 
>>> No, not a nail in cloud services per se, but just another narrow-sighted decision that will hurt US-based business interests and by extension US public policy interests. It will be just another sign for European companies that they cannot entrust their corporate data to cloud services of companies that are US-based or otherwise subject to US jurisdiction. I'm pretty sure you don't need RT (Russia Today) for that insight as I'm sure the Wall Street Journal and Forbes will already be blowing in the same horn, just as US businesses are. The big winners will be companies that are in "secure" locations, such as Switzerland, and which have little to no connections and business interests in the US. I read recently that one such Swiss cloud service has seen its business double after the Snowden revelations.
>>> 
>>> Btw, there are open source cloud servers available that you can install in a self-hosted environment, either at home or at your favorite non-US ISP Webspace, depending on your bandwidth and security/privacy needs. ;-)
>>> 
>>> On 01 Aug 2014, at 16:16, "michael gurstein" <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> http://rt.com/usa/177104-microsoft-preska-ireland-server/
>>> 
>>> Another nail in the coffin for "the cloud" and more...?
>>> 
>>> M
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ____________________________________________________________
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> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
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From peter.hellmonds at hellmonds.eu  Fri Aug  1 16:15:36 2014
From: peter.hellmonds at hellmonds.eu (Peter H. Hellmonds)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2014 22:15:36 +0200
Subject: [governance] FW: Data stored overseas should be accessible to
 US government, judge rules - RT USA
In-Reply-To: <01a501cfada7$7dfcb1d0$79f61570$@gmail.com>
References: <53DB4FF2.8020907@gmail.com> <008c01cfad93$3c4bebc0$b4e3c340$@gmail.com> <70DA6376-8EAA-41D1-BDC1-8C37CA605FC6@hellmonds.eu> <01a501cfada7$7dfcb1d0$79f61570$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2D667C46-BB52-4558-9D44-974E4B862BC8@hellmonds.eu>

Mike, 

It seems you assume that a non-US country would somewhat be obliged to "follow the US courts". What do you mean by that? Do you mean they would have a similar interpretation of their own country's extraterritorial application? Or that they would fall into lock-step with what he US judge orders? Maybe I am misreading or misinterpreting what you intended to say, so please clarify. 

In general, as far as I have heard (not being a legal expert in this area), data privacy laws in Europe are far more protective than in the US.  I would assume that neither  Europe (maybe excepting the UK) nor Brazil, or any other of the BRICS would care much about a US judgement that would contravene their own country's data privacy regulations. The real legal question and precedent would arise if a European judge would prohibit Microsoft to hand over the data stored in Europe while the US judge would insist on he data being handed over. That would present a real judicial and diplomatic quagmire. 

On the other hand, all that data has probably already been siphoned off to that huge Bluffdale data center, so you just need to ask the NSA for those records. ;-)

On 01 Aug 2014, at 18:41, "michael gurstein" <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:

Is there any reason that other countries/jurisdictions won't follow the US
courts in this (assuming that the judgment stands)?

M

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter H. Hellmonds [mailto:peter.hellmonds at hellmonds.eu] 
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 7:44 AM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; michael gurstein
Cc: <members at justnetcoalition.org>
Subject: Re: [governance] FW: Data stored overseas should be accessible to
US government, judge rules - RT USA

No, not a nail in cloud services per se, but just another narrow-sighted
decision that will hurt US-based business interests and by extension US
public policy interests. It will be just another sign for European companies
that they cannot entrust their corporate data to cloud services of companies
that are US-based or otherwise subject to US jurisdiction. I'm pretty sure
you don't need RT (Russia Today) for that insight as I'm sure the Wall
Street Journal and Forbes will already be blowing in the same horn, just as
US businesses are. The big winners will be companies that are in "secure"
locations, such as Switzerland, and which have little to no connections and
business interests in the US. I read recently that one such Swiss cloud
service has seen its business double after the Snowden revelations. 

Btw, there are open source cloud servers available that you can install in a
self-hosted environment, either at home or at your favorite non-US ISP
Webspace, depending on your bandwidth and security/privacy needs. ;-)

On 01 Aug 2014, at 16:16, "michael gurstein" <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:

http://rt.com/usa/177104-microsoft-preska-ireland-server/

Another nail in the coffin for "the cloud" and more...?

M


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From parminder at itforchange.net  Fri Aug  1 23:38:28 2014
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2014 09:08:28 +0530
Subject: [governance] =?UTF-8?Q?FW=3A_Data_stored_overseas_should_be_a?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?ccessible_to_US_government=2C_judge_rules_=E2=80=94_RT_USA?=
In-Reply-To: <70DA6376-8EAA-41D1-BDC1-8C37CA605FC6@hellmonds.eu>
References: <53DB4FF2.8020907@gmail.com> <008c01cfad93$3c4bebc0$b4e3c340$@gmail.com> <70DA6376-8EAA-41D1-BDC1-8C37CA605FC6@hellmonds.eu>
Message-ID: <53DC5D34.6040006@itforchange.net>


On Friday 01 August 2014 08:14 PM, Peter H. Hellmonds wrote:
> No, not a nail in cloud services per se, but just another narrow-sighted decision that will hurt US-based business interests and by extension US public policy interests. It will be just another sign for European companies that they cannot entrust their corporate data to cloud services of companies that are US-based or otherwise subject to US jurisdiction.

By the very same logic, what about entrusting Internet's DNS root to US 
jurisdiction? Isnt there is a similar problem/ issue with that. I ask 
because it is the IANA discussion which is the current IG context, and 
is something people can really do something about. If we really think 
and speak thus, we should out our political actions where our mouth is.

Friends, please let not be mislead by the nicely orchestrated IANA 
transition game.  Internet's root cannot stay under US jurisdiction. 
Especially with hundreds of new gltd coming up, this is just leaving a 
can of worms unattended. And we as actors who are present when IANA 
transition is taking place, apparently with the consent of the global 
community, will be political responsible as the worms begin to crawl out 
and pose innumerable social and political problems...

We must make a stand for incorporation of ICANN under international law 
and thereby be given host country immunities for it. This is the single 
biggest IANA issue, not all those diversionary technical and 
implementation issues that are continually offered as the real IANA 
issue - which I consider as deliberately misleading.

parminder




> I'm pretty sure you don't need RT (Russia Today) for that insight as I'm sure the Wall Street Journal and Forbes will already be blowing in the same horn, just as US businesses are. The big winners will be companies that are in "secure" locations, such as Switzerland, and which have little to no connections and business interests in the US. I read recently that one such Swiss cloud service has seen its business double after the Snowden revelations.
>
> Btw, there are open source cloud servers available that you can install in a self-hosted environment, either at home or at your favorite non-US ISP Webspace, depending on your bandwidth and security/privacy needs. ;-)
>
> On 01 Aug 2014, at 16:16, "michael gurstein" <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> http://rt.com/usa/177104-microsoft-preska-ireland-server/
>
> Another nail in the coffin for "the cloud" and more...?
>
> M
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
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>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
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From nhklein at gmx.net  Fri Aug  1 22:24:00 2014
From: nhklein at gmx.net (Norbert Klein)
Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2014 09:24:00 +0700
Subject: [governance] FW: Data stored overseas should be accessible to
 US government, judge rules - RT USA
In-Reply-To: <2D667C46-BB52-4558-9D44-974E4B862BC8@hellmonds.eu>
References: <53DB4FF2.8020907@gmail.com> <008c01cfad93$3c4bebc0$b4e3c340$@gmail.com> <70DA6376-8EAA-41D1-BDC1-8C37CA605FC6@hellmonds.eu> <01a501cfada7$7dfcb1d0$79f61570$@gmail.com> <2D667C46-BB52-4558-9D44-974E4B862BC8@hellmonds.eu>
Message-ID: <53DC4BC0.3030302@gmx.net>


On 8/2/2014 3:15 AM, Peter H. Hellmonds wrote:

Mike,

> ...In general, as far as I have heard (not being a legal expert in this
> area), data privacy laws in Europe are far more protective than in the
> US.

>   The real legal question and precedent would arise if a European judge would prohibit Microsoft to hand over the data stored in Europe while the US judge would insist on he data being handed over. That would present a real judicial and diplomatic quagmire.
...

Any movement following these lines?


Norbert Klein
Cambodia

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From parminder at itforchange.net  Sat Aug  2 01:52:09 2014
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2014 11:22:09 +0530
Subject: [governance] Killing the net neutral Internet
Message-ID: <53DC7C89.70904@itforchange.net>

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/facebook/11005228/Facebook-brings-free-web-access-to-Africa-with-Internet.org-app.html

One can think of the immediate benefit, or the soon to come disaster of 
a fully controlled Internet. Take your choice!

parminder

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From suresh at hserus.net  Sat Aug  2 02:03:25 2014
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2014 01:03:25 -0500
Subject: [governance] Killing the net neutral Internet
In-Reply-To: <53DC7C89.70904@itforchange.net>
References: <53DC7C89.70904@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <20140802060325.GA5102@hserus.net>

parminder [02/08/14 11:22 +0530]:
>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/facebook/11005228/Facebook-brings-free-web-access-to-Africa-with-Internet.org-app.html
>
>One can think of the immediate benefit, or the soon to come disaster 
>of a fully controlled Internet. Take your choice!

As far as I can see, you would have cause for complaint if facebook was the
only site available for free. And as far as I can also see, there is
nothing (beyond available money reasons) that stops people from adding a
full fledged data plan to their cellphone. This isn't a monopoly either.

I don't particularly care if you are allergic to facebook, but please let
us not raise spectres where there aren't any.

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From peter.hellmonds at hellmonds.eu  Sat Aug  2 07:03:03 2014
From: peter.hellmonds at hellmonds.eu (Peter H. Hellmonds)
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2014 13:03:03 +0200
Subject: [governance] =?UTF-8?Q?FW=3A_Data_stored_overseas_should_be_a?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?ccessible_to_US_government=2C_judge_rules_=E2=80=94_RT_USA?=
In-Reply-To: <53DC5D34.6040006@itforchange.net>
References: <53DB4FF2.8020907@gmail.com> <008c01cfad93$3c4bebc0$b4e3c340$@gmail.com> <70DA6376-8EAA-41D1-BDC1-8C37CA605FC6@hellmonds.eu> <53DC5D34.6040006@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <128DB8BE-D196-4BF0-B04C-FA685F4A14A0@hellmonds.eu>

Hi Parminder,

Not sure I can follow your logic yet. I was talking about data privacy, i.e. about the privacy of the content of a person's data and communications, as it referred to a concrete court case. In that case, a US judge is ordering a US company (Microsoft in this case) to hand over data stored in a data center in Europe. 

My argument was (and is) that this judge's order infringes upon European data privacy laws and directives. I was also pointing out that the NSA affair has left a certain sour taste in the mouths of many business executives who care about the privacy of their business secrets. 

Again, I was referring to the contents of data stored in the cloud and I was alluding to that when I argued that businesses would rather seek non-US based  cloud providers if they want the content of their data kept out of the hands of third parties or at least subject to stricter privacy rules. 

Now, please explain how IANA and the DNS root management would follow "the same logic". Is there private data stored in the DNS root? Does IANA provide access to law enforcement about data stored in its cloud?

I guess you are referring to the general feeling of mistrust in the US government when it comes to the management of the DNS root, a feeling we have been discussing since pre-WSIS times. So, what is new? Does the current cloud data content court case shed any fresh light on that decades old struggle? Please enlighten me where you see "the same logic".

Peter H. Hellmonds
<peter.hellmonds at hellmonds.eu>
+49 (160) 360-2852

On 02.08.2014, at 05:38, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> wrote:


> On Friday 01 August 2014 08:14 PM, Peter H. Hellmonds wrote:
> No, not a nail in cloud services per se, but just another narrow-sighted decision that will hurt US-based business interests and by extension US public policy interests. It will be just another sign for European companies that they cannot entrust their corporate data to cloud services of companies that are US-based or otherwise subject to US jurisdiction.

By the very same logic, what about entrusting Internet's DNS root to US jurisdiction? Isnt there is a similar problem/ issue with that. I ask because it is the IANA discussion which is the current IG context, and is something people can really do something about. If we really think and speak thus, we should out our political actions where our mouth is.

Friends, please let not be mislead by the nicely orchestrated IANA transition game.  Internet's root cannot stay under US jurisdiction. Especially with hundreds of new gltd coming up, this is just leaving a can of worms unattended. And we as actors who are present when IANA transition is taking place, apparently with the consent of the global community, will be political responsible as the worms begin to crawl out and pose innumerable social and political problems...

We must make a stand for incorporation of ICANN under international law and thereby be given host country immunities for it. This is the single biggest IANA issue, not all those diversionary technical and implementation issues that are continually offered as the real IANA issue - which I consider as deliberately misleading.

parminder




> I'm pretty sure you don't need RT (Russia Today) for that insight as I'm sure the Wall Street Journal and Forbes will already be blowing in the same horn, just as US businesses are. The big winners will be companies that are in "secure" locations, such as Switzerland, and which have little to no connections and business interests in the US. I read recently that one such Swiss cloud service has seen its business double after the Snowden revelations.
> 
> Btw, there are open source cloud servers available that you can install in a self-hosted environment, either at home or at your favorite non-US ISP Webspace, depending on your bandwidth and security/privacy needs. ;-)
> 
> On 01 Aug 2014, at 16:16, "michael gurstein" <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> http://rt.com/usa/177104-microsoft-preska-ireland-server/
> 
> Another nail in the coffin for "the cloud" and more...?
> 
> M
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
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>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
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From parminder at itforchange.net  Sat Aug  2 08:44:18 2014
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2014 18:14:18 +0530
Subject: [governance] =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?FW=3A_Data_stored_overseas_shou?=
 =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?ld_be_accessible_to_US_government=2C_judge_rules_=97_RT_?=
 =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?USA?=
In-Reply-To: <128DB8BE-D196-4BF0-B04C-FA685F4A14A0@hellmonds.eu>
References: <53DB4FF2.8020907@gmail.com> <008c01cfad93$3c4bebc0$b4e3c340$@gmail.com> <70DA6376-8EAA-41D1-BDC1-8C37CA605FC6@hellmonds.eu> <53DC5D34.6040006@itforchange.net> <128DB8BE-D196-4BF0-B04C-FA685F4A14A0@hellmonds.eu>
Message-ID: <53DCDD22.6040801@itforchange.net>


Sure, Peter, I will try and explain where I see the 'same logic', 
although I thought it was obvious.

What we see in the present case is that, in order to exercise its legal 
will, no doubt as enforcing US law and the such, a US court thinks that 
data stored in Ireland under the control of a US corporation is fair 
game to forcibly access. It simply goes by the fact of control, and 
disregards territorial limits of jurisdiction, It also disregards the 
principle of comity in international legal relationships.

/It being so, /what chance does one give that a US court will not 
directly interfere with the root zone file - for instance, to seize the 
gtld of a foreign company which it assesses as violating US intellectual 
property law - when the root zone actually lies both in the territory of 
the US and under the control of a US entity.

Do you think that a US court is unlikely to do any such thing in the 
future? If so, on what basis?

It is obvious that US courts will do whatever it takes to enforce US 
law, and therefore the root zone of the Internet lying in control of an 
US entity is simply not safe from interference from US courts.

parminder



On Saturday 02 August 2014 04:33 PM, Peter H. Hellmonds wrote:
> Hi Parminder,
>
> Not sure I can follow your logic yet. I was talking about data privacy, i.e. about the privacy of the content of a person's data and communications, as it referred to a concrete court case. In that case, a US judge is ordering a US company (Microsoft in this case) to hand over data stored in a data center in Europe.
>
> My argument was (and is) that this judge's order infringes upon European data privacy laws and directives. I was also pointing out that the NSA affair has left a certain sour taste in the mouths of many business executives who care about the privacy of their business secrets.
>
> Again, I was referring to the contents of data stored in the cloud and I was alluding to that when I argued that businesses would rather seek non-US based  cloud providers if they want the content of their data kept out of the hands of third parties or at least subject to stricter privacy rules.
>
> Now, please explain how IANA and the DNS root management would follow "the same logic". Is there private data stored in the DNS root? Does IANA provide access to law enforcement about data stored in its cloud?
>
> I guess you are referring to the general feeling of mistrust in the US government when it comes to the management of the DNS root, a feeling we have been discussing since pre-WSIS times. So, what is new? Does the current cloud data content court case shed any fresh light on that decades old struggle? Please enlighten me where you see "the same logic".
>
> Peter H. Hellmonds
> <peter.hellmonds at hellmonds.eu>
> +49 (160) 360-2852
>
> On 02.08.2014, at 05:38, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> wrote:
>
>
>> On Friday 01 August 2014 08:14 PM, Peter H. Hellmonds wrote:
>> No, not a nail in cloud services per se, but just another narrow-sighted decision that will hurt US-based business interests and by extension US public policy interests. It will be just another sign for European companies that they cannot entrust their corporate data to cloud services of companies that are US-based or otherwise subject to US jurisdiction.
> By the very same logic, what about entrusting Internet's DNS root to US jurisdiction? Isnt there is a similar problem/ issue with that. I ask because it is the IANA discussion which is the current IG context, and is something people can really do something about. If we really think and speak thus, we should out our political actions where our mouth is.
>
> Friends, please let not be mislead by the nicely orchestrated IANA transition game.  Internet's root cannot stay under US jurisdiction. Especially with hundreds of new gltd coming up, this is just leaving a can of worms unattended. And we as actors who are present when IANA transition is taking place, apparently with the consent of the global community, will be political responsible as the worms begin to crawl out and pose innumerable social and political problems...
>
> We must make a stand for incorporation of ICANN under international law and thereby be given host country immunities for it. This is the single biggest IANA issue, not all those diversionary technical and implementation issues that are continually offered as the real IANA issue - which I consider as deliberately misleading.
>
> parminder
>
>
>
>
>> I'm pretty sure you don't need RT (Russia Today) for that insight as I'm sure the Wall Street Journal and Forbes will already be blowing in the same horn, just as US businesses are. The big winners will be companies that are in "secure" locations, such as Switzerland, and which have little to no connections and business interests in the US. I read recently that one such Swiss cloud service has seen its business double after the Snowden revelations.
>>
>> Btw, there are open source cloud servers available that you can install in a self-hosted environment, either at home or at your favorite non-US ISP Webspace, depending on your bandwidth and security/privacy needs. ;-)
>>
>> On 01 Aug 2014, at 16:16, "michael gurstein" <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> http://rt.com/usa/177104-microsoft-preska-ireland-server/
>>
>> Another nail in the coffin for "the cloud" and more...?
>>
>> M
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
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From gurstein at gmail.com  Sat Aug  2 12:45:06 2014
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2014 09:45:06 -0700
Subject: [governance] FW: Data stored overseas should be accessible to
 US government, judge rules - RT USA
In-Reply-To: <2D667C46-BB52-4558-9D44-974E4B862BC8@hellmonds.eu>
References: <53DB4FF2.8020907@gmail.com> <008c01cfad93$3c4bebc0$b4e3c340$@gmail.com> <70DA6376-8EAA-41D1-BDC1-8C37CA605FC6@hellmonds.eu> <01a501cfada7$7dfcb1d0$79f61570$@gmail.com> <2D667C46-BB52-4558-9D44-974E4B862BC8@hellmonds.eu>
Message-ID: <062501cfae71$1e285190$5a78f4b0$@gmail.com>

Peter,

I'm not a lawyer so my observations are casual but my question was whether
judges/courts might make similar judgments concerning data held by companies
in their  jurisdictions... not that they would need to but these are
somewhat uncharted areas and from observation courts seem to learn/adopt
from each other in areas such as this one... with, as you suggested, quite
chaotic results...

M

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter H. Hellmonds [mailto:peter.hellmonds at hellmonds.eu] 
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 1:16 PM
To: michael gurstein
Cc: <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>; <members at justnetcoalition.org>
Subject: Re: [governance] FW: Data stored overseas should be accessible to
US government, judge rules - RT USA

Mike, 

It seems you assume that a non-US country would somewhat be obliged to
"follow the US courts". What do you mean by that? Do you mean they would
have a similar interpretation of their own country's extraterritorial
application? Or that they would fall into lock-step with what he US judge
orders? Maybe I am misreading or misinterpreting what you intended to say,
so please clarify. 

In general, as far as I have heard (not being a legal expert in this area),
data privacy laws in Europe are far more protective than in the US.  I would
assume that neither  Europe (maybe excepting the UK) nor Brazil, or any
other of the BRICS would care much about a US judgement that would
contravene their own country's data privacy regulations. The real legal
question and precedent would arise if a European judge would prohibit
Microsoft to hand over the data stored in Europe while the US judge would
insist on he data being handed over. That would present a real judicial and
diplomatic quagmire. 

On the other hand, all that data has probably already been siphoned off to
that huge Bluffdale data center, so you just need to ask the NSA for those
records. ;-)

On 01 Aug 2014, at 18:41, "michael gurstein" <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:

Is there any reason that other countries/jurisdictions won't follow the US
courts in this (assuming that the judgment stands)?

M

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter H. Hellmonds [mailto:peter.hellmonds at hellmonds.eu]
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 7:44 AM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; michael gurstein
Cc: <members at justnetcoalition.org>
Subject: Re: [governance] FW: Data stored overseas should be accessible to
US government, judge rules - RT USA

No, not a nail in cloud services per se, but just another narrow-sighted
decision that will hurt US-based business interests and by extension US
public policy interests. It will be just another sign for European companies
that they cannot entrust their corporate data to cloud services of companies
that are US-based or otherwise subject to US jurisdiction. I'm pretty sure
you don't need RT (Russia Today) for that insight as I'm sure the Wall
Street Journal and Forbes will already be blowing in the same horn, just as
US businesses are. The big winners will be companies that are in "secure"
locations, such as Switzerland, and which have little to no connections and
business interests in the US. I read recently that one such Swiss cloud
service has seen its business double after the Snowden revelations. 

Btw, there are open source cloud servers available that you can install in a
self-hosted environment, either at home or at your favorite non-US ISP
Webspace, depending on your bandwidth and security/privacy needs. ;-)

On 01 Aug 2014, at 16:16, "michael gurstein" <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:

http://rt.com/usa/177104-microsoft-preska-ireland-server/

Another nail in the coffin for "the cloud" and more...?

M


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From pouzin at well.com  Sat Aug  2 13:00:31 2014
From: pouzin at well.com (Louis Pouzin (well))
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2014 19:00:31 +0200
Subject: [governance] FW: Data stored overseas should be accessible to
 US government, judge rules -- RT USA
In-Reply-To: <53DCDD22.6040801@itforchange.net>
References: <53DB4FF2.8020907@gmail.com> <008c01cfad93$3c4bebc0$b4e3c340$@gmail.com>
 <70DA6376-8EAA-41D1-BDC1-8C37CA605FC6@hellmonds.eu> <53DC5D34.6040006@itforchange.net>
 <128DB8BE-D196-4BF0-B04C-FA685F4A14A0@hellmonds.eu> <53DCDD22.6040801@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <CA+EjHYo=7g7+iX-CqPMw1Hia_jCqhafVexZApjmEToCdYAyVEQ@mail.gmail.com>

Peter,

Remember Rojadirecta.org, a spanish site seized by ICE (i.e. FBI), without
US court order, in violation of spanish law and court decision.

Obviously .org was not seized, it being under whole US control. The FBI
acted only upon 2nd level domains.

New gTLDs are no longer under whole US control, despite the arcane
delegation process imposed by ICANN. Some new gTLD delegated to a non US
organization could deviate from USG hegemony or its lobbies interests.
Then, *by the same logic*, the FBI could seize this new gTLD without US
court order. Though it will not seize the whole root, yet.

To me Parminder's logic is crystal clear.

Louis.
- - -

On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 2:44 PM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> wrote:

>
> Sure, Peter, I will try and explain where I see the 'same logic', although
> I thought it was obvious.
>
> What we see in the present case is that, in order to exercise its legal
> will, no doubt as enforcing US law and the such, a US court thinks that
> data stored in Ireland under the control of a US corporation is fair game
> to forcibly access. It simply goes by the fact of control, and disregards
> territorial limits of jurisdiction, It also disregards the principle of
> comity in international legal relationships.
>
> *It being so, *what chance does one give that a US court will not
> directly interfere with the root zone file - for instance, to seize the
> gtld of a foreign company which it assesses as violating US intellectual
> property law - when the root zone actually lies both in the territory of
> the US and under the control of a US entity.
>
> Do you think that a US court is unlikely to do any such thing in the
> future? If so, on what basis?
>
> It is obvious that US courts will do whatever it takes to enforce US law,
> and therefore the root zone of the Internet lying in control of an US
> entity is simply not safe from interference from US courts.
>
> parminder
>
>
>  On Saturday 02 August 2014 04:33 PM, Peter H. Hellmonds wrote:
>
> Hi Parminder,
>
> Not sure I can follow your logic yet. I was talking about data privacy, i.e. about the privacy of the content of a person's data and communications, as it referred to a concrete court case. In that case, a US judge is ordering a US company (Microsoft in this case) to hand over data stored in a data center in Europe.
>
> My argument was (and is) that this judge's order infringes upon European data privacy laws and directives. I was also pointing out that the NSA affair has left a certain sour taste in the mouths of many business executives who care about the privacy of their business secrets.
>
> Again, I was referring to the contents of data stored in the cloud and I was alluding to that when I argued that businesses would rather seek non-US based  cloud providers if they want the content of their data kept out of the hands of third parties or at least subject to stricter privacy rules.
>
> Now, please explain how IANA and the DNS root management would follow "the same logic". Is there private data stored in the DNS root? Does IANA provide access to law enforcement about data stored in its cloud?
>
> I guess you are referring to the general feeling of mistrust in the US government when it comes to the management of the DNS root, a feeling we have been discussing since pre-WSIS times. So, what is new? Does the current cloud data content court case shed any fresh light on that decades old struggle? Please enlighten me where you see "the same logic".
>
> Peter H. Hellmonds<peter.hellmonds at hellmonds.eu> <peter.hellmonds at hellmonds.eu>+49 (160) 360-2852
>
>
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From lmcknigh at syr.edu  Sat Aug  2 19:08:15 2014
From: lmcknigh at syr.edu (Lee W McKnight)
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2014 23:08:15 +0000
Subject: [governance] FW: Data stored overseas should be accessible to
 US government, judge rules -- RT USA
In-Reply-To: <CA+EjHYo=7g7+iX-CqPMw1Hia_jCqhafVexZApjmEToCdYAyVEQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <53DB4FF2.8020907@gmail.com>
 <008c01cfad93$3c4bebc0$b4e3c340$@gmail.com>
 <70DA6376-8EAA-41D1-BDC1-8C37CA605FC6@hellmonds.eu>
 <53DC5D34.6040006@itforchange.net>
 <128DB8BE-D196-4BF0-B04C-FA685F4A14A0@hellmonds.eu>
 <53DCDD22.6040801@itforchange.net>,<CA+EjHYo=7g7+iX-CqPMw1Hia_jCqhafVexZApjmEToCdYAyVEQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ed818370b6354092829de213d77c44f7@EX13-MBX-07.ad.syr.edu>


Fyi, perhaps relevant to this thread.


http://pando.com/2014/08/01/icann-but-youcant-internet-naming-body-wont-hand-over-iran-syria-and-north-koreas-domains-to-terror-victims/


Lee


________________________________
From: pouzin at gmail.com <pouzin at gmail.com> on behalf of Louis Pouzin (well) <pouzin at well.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 2, 2014 1:00 PM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Peter H. Hellmonds
Cc: parminder
Subject: Re: [governance] FW: Data stored overseas should be accessible to US government, judge rules -- RT USA

Peter,

Remember Rojadirecta.org, a spanish site seized by ICE (i.e. FBI), without US court order, in violation of spanish law and court decision.

Obviously .org was not seized, it being under whole US control. The FBI acted only upon 2nd level domains.

New gTLDs are no longer under whole US control, despite the arcane delegation process imposed by ICANN. Some new gTLD delegated to a non US organization could deviate from USG hegemony or its lobbies interests. Then, by the same logic, the FBI could seize this new gTLD without US court order. Though it will not seize the whole root, yet.

To me Parminder's logic is crystal clear.

Louis.
- - -

On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 2:44 PM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net<mailto:parminder at itforchange.net>> wrote:

Sure, Peter, I will try and explain where I see the 'same logic', although I thought it was obvious.

What we see in the present case is that, in order to exercise its legal will, no doubt as enforcing US law and the such, a US court thinks that data stored in Ireland under the control of a US corporation is fair game to forcibly access. It simply goes by the fact of control, and disregards territorial limits of jurisdiction, It also disregards the principle of comity in international legal relationships.

It being so, what chance does one give that a US court will not directly interfere with the root zone file - for instance, to seize the gtld of a foreign company which it assesses as violating US intellectual property law - when the root zone actually lies both in the territory of the US and under the control of a US entity.

Do you think that a US court is unlikely to do any such thing in the future? If so, on what basis?

It is obvious that US courts will do whatever it takes to enforce US law, and therefore the root zone of the Internet lying in control of an US entity is simply not safe from interference from US courts.

parminder


On Saturday 02 August 2014 04:33 PM, Peter H. Hellmonds wrote:

Hi Parminder,

Not sure I can follow your logic yet. I was talking about data privacy, i.e. about the privacy of the content of a person's data and communications, as it referred to a concrete court case. In that case, a US judge is ordering a US company (Microsoft in this case) to hand over data stored in a data center in Europe.

My argument was (and is) that this judge's order infringes upon European data privacy laws and directives. I was also pointing out that the NSA affair has left a certain sour taste in the mouths of many business executives who care about the privacy of their business secrets.

Again, I was referring to the contents of data stored in the cloud and I was alluding to that when I argued that businesses would rather seek non-US based  cloud providers if they want the content of their data kept out of the hands of third parties or at least subject to stricter privacy rules.

Now, please explain how IANA and the DNS root management would follow "the same logic". Is there private data stored in the DNS root? Does IANA provide access to law enforcement about data stored in its cloud?

I guess you are referring to the general feeling of mistrust in the US government when it comes to the management of the DNS root, a feeling we have been discussing since pre-WSIS times. So, what is new? Does the current cloud data content court case shed any fresh light on that decades old struggle? Please enlighten me where you see "the same logic".

Peter H. Hellmonds
<peter.hellmonds at hellmonds.eu><mailto:peter.hellmonds at hellmonds.eu>
+49 (160) 360-2852<tel:%2B49%20%28160%29%20360-2852>



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From jeanchristophe.nothias at gmail.com  Sun Aug  3 14:48:27 2014
From: jeanchristophe.nothias at gmail.com (Jean-Christophe Nothias)
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2014 20:48:27 +0200
Subject: [governance] Fwd: Fwd: Fwd: [Members] US District Court for DC
 - IRAN/SYRIA - ICANN
In-Reply-To: <53DB56F7.3070702@digsys.bg>
References: <53B928BE.3040603@itforchange.net> <53B93A3B.6090707@ITforChange.net> <53DB56F7.3070702@digsys.bg>
Message-ID: <54FD24A3-5883-4F3F-A9DD-3769E1495215@gmail.com>

Thanks Daniel,

Interesting comments even though I might consider some of them might not really add clarity. But aren't we in a "combat zone" governance thing?

Something worries me a bit, at the very end of your email.

> Democracy dies centuries ago in ancient Greece and Rome. Remember? 
> 
What do you suggest here? Do you wish to emphasize the "death of Democracy "? Or that it died in Greece or Rome, meaning long time ago, and is therefore not any longer relevant?
I would certainly think that a principle is what it is (and has great value) precisely because such idea/concept never dies. Athens domination through its democratic governance lots its ruling over other Greek cities. The Roman Empire died of its own opulence, and because the Romans wanted too much for themselves, out of their domination. They forgot to share with others. Nothing to blame at Democracy (anyway Rome had little to do with Democracy as we talk about either a plutocracy in the form of a Republic, or of a tyranny out of an Emperor.

Could you elaborate about your personal view here, as I believe that Democracy and its principles and virtues are still of great value and use today?
 
> If you understand that the Internet is a network of private entities, with their own interests -- everything falls in place. Then the "Internet Governance" task becomes one of disseminating knowledge and dealing with inter-personal conflicts. Even most wars are based on inter-personal conflicts... 


To make it brief, I think it is a bit more complex.

Best,
JC

Le 1 août 2014 à 10:59, Daniel Kalchev a écrit :

> There are some interesting points, see my comments below.
> 
> 
> On 06.07.14 14:59, Guru गुरु wrote:
>> I thought this posting on another list may be useful to the discussion on the IGC thread  "Some more legal tangles for ICANN"
>> regards,
>> Guru
>> 
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject:	[Members] US District Court for DC - IRAN/SYRIA - ICANN
>> Date:	Mon, 30 Jun 2014 13:14:12 +0200
>> From:	Jean-Christophe NOTHIAS I The Global Journal <jc.nothias at theglobaljournal.net>
>> Reply-To:	members at justnetcoalition.org
>> To:	Member Just_Net_Coalition <members at justnetcoalition.org>
>> 
>> Dear JNC members,
>> 
>> I thought I would wrap-up some facts and appreciation of a new case where Plaintiffs have requested the US District Court for the district of Columbia to turn to ICANN in order to seize whatever money, property, credit IRAN and Syria have at ICANN. This is a 'first', and worth to be looked at. Even though we are not legal expert for US law, it is a very interesting issue to look at in an Internet Governance perspective. Like anything related to US law and jurisdiction, this might take years before a conclusion can be reached -  right now these judgements have been made by default as Iran and Syria did not show up to the Court to defend themselves. Still the case is showing that the asymmetric role of the US in terms of Internet Governance is under critical challenge. It also shows that much of what is related to the management of the root zone (address book for the dot_something (.XYZ) is still missing international definition and agreements. This is part of the fact that IG has been into US hands, at least under the current form since 1998 when ICANN was incorporated and when Jon Postel's job at the root zone level was doing until then through IANA was also transfer to ICANN under the same acronym. The new IANA became part of the ICANN that same year Being an 'authority' and a 'department' of ICANN, IANA has no bylaws but is under strict supervision of the US Department of Commerce, through NTIA. Nothing can be change at the root zone level for TLDs (gTLDs or ccTLDs) without the consent of the US DoC. This helps to understand by the same token the role of IANA, as a department of ICANN under a double US oversight, ICANN being itself under contract with the US DoC.
> 
> The primary issue in this case, is the decision by the USG to play political games, when they devised this "If you don't threat your citizens the way we want you to, we will let them sue you in the US under our own laws and will 'lawfuly' steal your property in the US. So, do as we say!".
> More powerful countries, such as Russia and Brasil (and to a lesser degree the "western democracy" countries) clearly told the US they do not care and they would subject US property in their respective area of control to about the same process (or worse).
> 
> By creating this procedure, the US has prepared a lot of Pandora Boxes or Cans of Worms, waiting to be opened..
> 
> As such, it is unfortunate, but quite understandable that some lawyer decided to drag ICANN into this mess. Understandable, because ICANN demonstrates it has lots of money to spend, is a public "shared irresponsibility" entity etc. Typical target for the typical US lawyer.
> 
> For many reasons, the ICANN processes are a mess. This too is heaven for lawyers. The good news is the community is slowly clearing up the mess. The bad news is this is a very slow process (and ICANN is thus vulnerable for longer period). The other bad news is there are new incentives at ICANN that create even more weak points (even if attempts are made to design them properly).
> 
> Out of everything else, IANA is the most interesting ... non-entity :)
> 
>> 
>> Some debate took place into the IGC list, and I would start from there.
>> 
>> 1_
>> It started here
>> http://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-us-terror-victims-now-own-irans-internet/
>> 
>> 2_
>> A subscriber to the Civil Society Governance Caucus- IGC elist (Joly McFie) wrote on June 25:
>> 
>> "ICANN licenses the TLDs to different world governments who then are permitted to appoint agents who sell the domain names and their country specific internet suffixes to individuals, businesses and organizations."
>> 
>> 1/ Is this strictly true? 
>> 2/ Does ICANN have a licence over ccTLDs?
>> 
>> Some honorable subscribers of the IGC list reacted, among others:
>> 
>> From Daniel Kalchev
>>  - most ccTLDs were delegated before ICANN was even an idea and most ccTLDs managers are in fact not been appointed by any government.
>>  - After all, Internet was, is and will be an worldwide private network.
>> 
>> From Wolfgang Kleinwächter:
>>  - This is nonsense. The author of this piece does not understand, how the DNS works. 
>> 
>> From McTim:
>>  - This won't go anywhere... Just a lawyer trying to get attention for his case.
>>  - The fees paid to ICANN from Iran are exactly zero.
>> 
>> 3_
>> Then I posted On June 28 to the same IGC list the following information:
>> 
>> Here are the 6 "Writs of Attachment" (5  vs IRAN; 1 vs Syria) as of June 24, 2014, notified to ICANN/IANA by the US District Court for the District of Columbia.
>> 
>> <Pièce jointe Mail.png>
>> 
>> So no "if" and no "apparently" as some doubted on the list.
>> 
>> 4_
>> There would be postings with opposing views, ones saying that there was nothing to worry about - ICANN would simply answer 'no'- and others saying that this was critical issue for the first-level domain for countries (ccTLD: country-code for Top Level Domain).
> 
> This is good, as if we were all of the same opinion, sometimes we would be all totally wrong and there would be no balance to help in cases of disaster.
> 
>> 
>> 
>> 5_
>> First, to be frank,  I would say that I was a bit disappointed with the comments on the IGC list. Some participants were supposedly able to provide a better perspective on the case. For example,  I believe that Wolfgang Kleinwächter, specially since he is working at ICANN, should have provided a better answer to Joly's question. "Non sense" means little if nothing. Sharing and distributing understanding is always worth the effort.
>> 
>> Daniel is quite right in his first assumption (Jon Postel did most of the delegation work prior to the NewCo ICANN/IANA, established in 1998). I would not be overly certain that the majority of ccTLDs mangers are not being appointed by governments. That could be investigated. A ccTLD being considered by governments as part of their "national sovereignty" I would challenge this assertion. National realities are often more subtile. More of a concern in my view is Daniel's idea of a "worldwide private network". This has little if no reality. Networks belong to Telecom Operators for the largest part, some being public, some private (under governmental regulations). Autonomous Systems do also belong to public or private entities. What can be seen as worldwide is "interconnectivity" - one can say that nobody owns the Interconnectivity, something essentially untrue when we speak of 'Internet'. A "private" thing? I do not see anything else than a public space here, where private interests might indeed be dominant.
> 
> I fully understand Wolfgang's position here. The Can of Worms, Pandora Box etc issues cannot be ignored and sometimes it's better to not dwell unnecessarily into details.. publicly.
> 
> However, it is a myth that Jon Postel himself made these delegations. The pre-ICANN delegation history is very complex and interesting to study -- for some reason the people in the know prefer to remain silent. Whatever the procedure was, when ICANN was (hastily) implemented, no proper process was followed to sort all this stuff out -- despite the community at that time held a lot of debates and a lot of good proposals were made.
> 
> I am also amused, that we still discuss who controls ccTLDs. It is easy to check who appointed each and every ccTLD. Even if this requires arranging in person meetings and asking each of them individually (first hand information, that is). The ccTLDs are not that many and the people who run them are usually communicative.
> 
> There are almost no exceptions, that at some point in time, national governments decided they should take over the respective ccTLD, for many different excuses, the most prevalent being "my cousin's son wants to play with this".
> 
> The Internet is different from other public communication networks. It differs in many aspects, including both technical and governance -- but all aspects share one common feature: everything on the Internet is designed to follow the normal human to human interaction model. In the Internet, everyone provides and consumes services to/from everyone else. There are sometimes middlemen, who one bright day discover the thing works without them, too -- no matter what they do. One could say, that the basic principle on which the Internet holds up together is the "mutual destruction fear". Like, for example: "Oh, I don't want those guys, so let's filter their SMTP server. Great, I won't hear from them ever again! Ugh, it turns out a friend of mine communicates with some friend of theirs and my friends says they won't talk to me anymore if I continue to be such an (insert appropriate cultural expression). So, even if I don't particularly like that guys, I am going to enable their SMTP server to talk to mine, because of my friend's needs. (or the service I provide to someone etc)"
> 
> This "Networks belong to Telecom Operators for the largest part" is a myth, *they* want you to believe in.
> In reality, both your home network and your telecom's 'national backbone' have the same value for the Internet and for you. If your home network does not function, you can't access the Internet resources no matter how "great" the Telecom network is. It may also turn out, you don't communicate with your neighbor with the assistance of that Telecom, so their existence might be pretty much irrelevant to you. And the Internet.
> 
> As such, and because the Internet is defined by the end points, that are essentially owned/operated by individuals, you could view it as a network of private entities. The Internet is designed in such a way, that the intermediate network (and whatever other stuff lurks there) is irrelevant. If the end nodes can communicate with each other, you have Internet. If not -- you have nothing.
> 
> Now, Governments, under the guidance of Telecoms and other large corporations try to regulate this stuff, with the primary goal to ensure those "large investors" continued control and profits. But as long as the end nodes continue to not be dumb terminals fully controlled "by the network", this is pretty much impossible.
> 
> Maybe, I was not precise enough with my statement of the Internet being a private network. I did not mean to say the Internet is the private network of someone. Hope this never, ever happens. I meant to say the Internet is a network of individual entities, usually private persons. Private interests, those of the private individuals indeed dominate Internet. it is a public space in the sense that participation is not restricted.
> 
>> 
>> McTim underestimates the "where" the Court request is leading. A simple "no" by ICANN/IANA/NTIA would not be the end for the US District Court to act. 
>> McTim is right about the fact that Iran and Syria pay no fees to ICANN, but still this does not evacuate the idea, as per the Court appreciation and own view, that a ccTLD has great value. McTim has acknowledged this fact.
> 
> In as much as ccTLD may have great value, it is nothing more than a string of letters. A well known one, yes. But transferring the responsibility for that string of letters to someone else (what is being asked) could very obviously destroy whatever value it might have. It *will* also cause direct damage to the material interests of those who chose to have a name under that ccTLD. 
> 
> This is an even bigger Can of Worms/Pandora Box -- is the US court prepared to deal with lawsuits and considering compensations for all those whose domains get wiped by this act?
> This is the kind of "don't even think about it" kind of response ICANN should/have given. 
> 
> Unfortunately, by being a political act, this law needs not follow common sense.
> 
>> 
>> Back to Joly's "ICANN Licenses the ccTLDS..." Strictly true? ICANN having a license over ccTLDs
>> 
>> IANA, which is not an incorporate non profit, is a "department of ICANN". It is an 'authority' with no legal ground, no bylaws in the US, nor any International recognition. Still it has quite many responsibilities. One major constraint for ICANN/IANA regarding the root zone is that nothing can be changed in the root zone file without an approval by DoC (through NTIA).
>> The new IANA (part of the new ICANN) has taken over the continuity of handling the delegation of the ccTLDs to registries since Jon Postel died in 1998, days before ICANN was incorporated with Vint Cerf as first president. By then IANA was funded by the US Department of Defense. We should all remember that Postel came to Geneva in 1997 where he intended to establish a non profit, with an international recognition from governments, a non profit that would handle the civilian root zone for the planet. His project was opposed by US diplomats in Geneva at the time.
> 
> IANA is *the* authority in what it does. International law nothing to do with it. IANA's role is to compile and maintain the list of DNS TLDs and various Internet protocol databases of numbers. Someone might have oversight of what IANA does, but the entity (no matter how it is constitutes) has the ultimate authority "what is which".
> 
> Imagine, I build a collection of post stamps. I am the ultimate authority over what goes into my collection. Now, imagine my collection has become very popular worldwide, is being refered to by many and some even use it as their reference point (precisely, what has happened with DNS and IANA). Do I cease to be *the* authority of my post stamp collection?
> Yes, things might get more complex, but unless the authority itself decides to give up and transform somehow, nothing will change.
> 
> 
>> 
>> So to anwser Joly: Yes, IANA, a department of ICANN delegates (the verb to license would not be strictly right) each ccTLD to a unique entity/registry, but only after the US DoC approval. IANA is also responsible for re-delegation.
> There is an RFC document (RFC1591), that documents the process, criteria etc. There is an Framework of Interpretation Working Group of the ccNSO to try explain in today's terminology what the intent of this document is and how it should be interpreted by IANA (because it became obvious that IANA was confused or pressured several times to do things that could not be explained by RFC1591).
> 
> This RFC1591 does not talk about the US DoC *at all*. Interesting, isn't it?
> My interpretation on the current situation is as we know it, because it was USG who originally created IANA and they seek some way to preserve it, without being too much involved with it, as running such entity is not their task.
> 
> In the FOI working group we came to the conclusion, that RFC1591 does not provide for such a thing as "re-delegation". Such process consists of two acts -- the previous manager being removed from responsibility for the domain (revocation) and a new manager being tasked with that responsibility (delegation).
> 
>> 
>> In the case of IRAN, the unique registry that has received the delegation to handle the ".IR" ccTLD is THE INSTITUTE for RESEARCH in FUNDAMENTAL SCIENCES, based in IRAN, and affiliated with the Iranian Ministry of Science, Research, and Technology founded in 1989 under the name of INSTITUTE for STUDIES in THEORETICAL PHYSICS and MATHEMATICS - this tends to document the fact that the registry for .IR is legitimate part of the state of IRAN. What can the US District Court do about this? Ask for the plaintiffs to become the unique registry for .IR? The new registry would then earn money thanks to the Iranian registrars that would keep using the .IR. Not a bad deal.
> 
> More likely, the entity who received the task to manage the .IR domain was someone who was working at/affiliated with the said institute. That individual likely decided (for various reasons, including their own safety) that it is better for them to not be so visible and the institute would manage the .IR registry. At least officially. There is no evidence, that the institute has a mandate (usually documented in their articles for incorporation or another such/related document) that they have "managing the .IR domain name registry" as their list of core functions. Unlikely they have such an assignment etc from the Iranian Government as well. The Iranian government confirming to ICANN that they wish/agree that the institute will run the said registry has nothing to do with any "property rights" or "ownership"... 
> 
> What is the proper term for such desires, in the US culture? "Pipe Dreams"?
> 
> Running a ccTLD registry I can say this: registrars have contracts with the (whatever form) manager of the registry. Not with "the registry" in some abstract form. Nothing and nobody can force those registrars to sign a contract or pay any money to any other party, to whom the previous manager decided to transfer the "business" -- either forced or willingly.
> This is especially true in such an political case -- chances are most .IR registrars are Iranian entities. Do you truly believe they will agree to pay money to some US based party that is confiscating their country's properties at will... 
> Most likely, those registrars/registrants will swallow the costs (and some, eventually sue the US big time, *in the US*) then move to some other TLD.
> 
>> 
>> What would IANA consider as a possible reason to terminate the delegation of the .IR? If we look at what ICANN considers as a possible reason to terminate a registrar accreditation agreement (see 5.3 of the Registrar Accreditation Agreement, even though it does not seem to have its equivalent with registries). But who said that this could not happen when it comes to a registry issue? Again, in the absence of an international treaty clarifying many obscure points in terms of root zone policy, the many vacuums could be of great amusement to a US District Court. Again, that brings a very serious challenge to the global, transnational governance of the Internet. ICANN is now in a poor situation. Would ICANN give way to the US District Court request, many countries would take the opportunity to fully challenge ICANN in its fundaments. Would ICANN pass the hot potato to someone else (US DoC? IRFS, the Iranian registry? Nobody?) the Court might not like that answer, and might threatened ICANN to comply. We'll see.
> 
> There is a very big difference between the gTLDs ICANN created, the Registrar business ICANN created and the ccTLDs relationship with ICANN.
> Many ccTLDs were created before ICANN existed. Many ccTLDs were created before RFC1591 was ever published.
> All those ccTLD run perfectly well and serve the public Internet (see my comment on the Internet being 'private' above). Nobody wants this to change.
> 
>> 
>> Still we have a pending question: what difference should be made between "to license" and "to delegate" a ccTLD? 
> 
> I am not a lawyer, but could imagine it's night a day.
> 
> From my "technical" point of view, the delegation process is the act of recording who is responsible for the TLD. IANA, as such has no procedure to "chose" who the registry will be -- their task is to properly maintain record who the party is.
> 
> Licensing, is something that requires (pre-existing) regulation. Possibly, government-style.
> 
>> 
>> Nobody really owns a domain name, and there are many indications that it could considered in the same way for TLDs. A TLD or domain name 'holder'/'tenant' pays a 'lease' for a domain. If the .COM is the property of ICANN or DoC, then .IR would then be the property of its current tenant. As with any lease, it can end if not renewed or be terminated by the delegating authority (if nobody is ultimate owner). So we definitely have a situation that isnot clear, as a domain name is still not a property but holds intellectual property rights, turning it into a very valuable asset. You do not own the domain, you own the right to use it. This still means that any TLD has a commercial value, including ccTLDs, and is therefore an asset and subject to a Court sequestration warrant or redelegation request. And in this case, the judge is not asking for the moon, I would say.
> 
> As always, it is even more complex than this. :)
> Consider for a moment, that there can exist an unlimited number of .IR ccTLDs. Or, in some of these parallel realities, .IRC could be a gTLD, or what they call it there.
> We all try very hard to stick to this one reality we have chosen to inhabit, making compromises as neccesary, because of the "guaranteed mutual destruction" thing. Being a network of individuals, the Internet is impossible to be fully regulated, just as it is impossible to fully regulate individuals.
> 
> To further complicate things, to this day there are still ccTLDs that do not charge any fee for their registration services. Further to this, most ccTLDs do not pay ICANN any fees for the IANA service. This is perhaps because, the ICANN does the IANA service to the USG, not the ccTLDs. Any money transfers between ccTLD managers and ICANN are based on "we agree to fund you" principle.
> 
>> 
>> Here is an excellent work funded by the US National Science Foundation and ITU related to "Policy, Business, Technical and Operational Considerations for the Management of a country code Top Level Domain (ccTLD) drafted in 2008. It is an interesting document.
>> 
>> Regarding a possible redelegation, read what happened to the .IQ (IRAK) in 2005. It's a IANA report worth to read. See again the role played by the US DoC and NTIA. Without putting in a US District Court.
> 
> One of the reason swhy the FOI working group was created...
> 
>> 
>> All of that is not limited to the respective unique registries for IRAN and SYRIA (both countries are concerned with the US District Court of Columbia writs). The Writ has no limitation, quite to the contrary. Who said that the link between Iranian registrars and ICANN did not exist.  There are much more than the first-level domain (ccTLD) to be considered such as the second-level domain registration by registrars. What's about IPs? All of that enters into IANA, a department of ICANN, duties and performance.
> 
> Like I said, a Pandora Box. So the Iranian Government has done something, that the USG did not approve. They then go on an penalize (supposedly) Iranian individuals and commercial entities, claiming they penalize the Iranian Government. Further, because many international entities, including without doubt many US corporations/nonprofits hold .IR names too, they get penalized too.
> 
> Does this create any pressure to the Iranian Government (the original idea behind this little political game). Very likely not.
> 
>> 
>> So apart from trying to predict with little to no chance the outcomes for this case, we see that in this situation the current state of Internet Governance is far from comfortable. So a lot of work to be done. Again we see that without clear definition, and international agreements, it will be difficult to find trust, clarity and democratic values.
> 
> Democracy dies centuries ago in ancient Greece and Rome. Remember? 
> 
> If you understand that the Internet is a network of private entities, with their own interests -- everything falls in place. Then the "Internet Governance" task becomes one of disseminating knowledge and dealing with inter-personal conflicts. Even most wars are based on inter-personal conflicts... 
> 
> Daniel
> 
>> 
>> Comments are very welcome.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> Jean-Christophe Nothias
>> 
>> Chief Strategist,
>> Contents and Projects
>> 
>> (+41) 79 265 92 75
>> jc.nothias at globalgeneva.net
>> @jc_nothias
>> 
> 
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> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

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From mshears at cdt.org  Sun Aug  3 09:17:19 2014
From: mshears at cdt.org (Matthew Shears)
Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2014 09:17:19 -0400
Subject: CS consensual statement on MSism WAS Re: [governance] Vint Verf
 tells us the conclusion of the complex IANA transition process
In-Reply-To: <2A88133F001C4A81824DE9182320EAA8@Toshiba>
References: <20140729163109.439fa0fd@quill> <53DADF64.1000609@eff.org> <2A88133F001C4A81824DE9182320EAA8@Toshiba>
Message-ID: <53DE365F.2060305@cdt.org>

Delighted to join this effort - thanks.

Matthew

On 8/1/2014 12:52 AM, Ian Peter wrote:
> I'd b happy to work with a smaller group on this. If we have a 
> representative group with our divergent opinions represented, that 
> would help to get to some words likely to be acceptable to the larger 
> group.
>
> Ian
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Jeremy Malcolm
> Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 10:29 AM
> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org ; bestbits at lists.bestbits.net
> Subject: Re: CS consensual statement on MSism WAS Re: [governance] 
> Vint Verf tells us the conclusion of the complex IANA transition process
>
>

-- 
Matthew Shears
Director - Global Internet Policy and Human Rights
Center for Democracy & Technology (CDT)
mshears at cdt.org
+ 44 771 247 2987



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From nb at bollow.ch  Sun Aug  3 18:19:52 2014
From: nb at bollow.ch (Norbert Bollow)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 00:19:52 +0200
Subject: [governance] . (was Re: US District Court for DC - IRAN/SYRIA -
 ICANN)
In-Reply-To: <54FD24A3-5883-4F3F-A9DD-3769E1495215@gmail.com>
References: <53B928BE.3040603@itforchange.net>
	<53B93A3B.6090707@ITforChange.net>
	<53DB56F7.3070702@digsys.bg>
	<54FD24A3-5883-4F3F-A9DD-3769E1495215@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140804001952.4e6844ae@quill>

Jean-Christophe Nothias <jeanchristophe.nothias at gmail.com> wrote, in
response to an email of Daniel Kalchev:

> Something worries me a bit, at the very end of your email.
> 
> > Democracy dies centuries ago in ancient Greece and Rome. Remember? 
>
> What do you suggest here?

While of course I can't speak for Daniel, in my view the point is very
important that democracy is something which can die.

We need to cherish and intentionally preserve and protect democracy,
and insist that whatever serious bugs there may be in the current
implementations must be fixed, if we don't want democracy to die on
us again!

Democracy must not be taken for granted.

Greetings,
Norbert

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From lmcknigh at syr.edu  Sun Aug  3 18:54:58 2014
From: lmcknigh at syr.edu (Lee W McKnight)
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2014 22:54:58 +0000
Subject: [governance] Fwd: Fwd: Fwd: [Members] US District Court for DC
 - IRAN/SYRIA - ICANN
In-Reply-To: <53DB56F7.3070702@digsys.bg>
References: <53B928BE.3040603@itforchange.net>
 <53B93A3B.6090707@ITforChange.net>,<53DB56F7.3070702@digsys.bg>
Message-ID: <a8ce3c8ab2dc4efc8c97c73b09608e69@EX13-MBX-07.ad.syr.edu>

A few comments to wade in for a moment:


- IGC co-founder YJ Park's excellent doctoral thesis some years back on 'ccTLDs between State and Market' provided quite a bit of info on that balance and its historical evolution by ccTLD. Of course there are many current sources of info as others have noted. Summarizing admittedly without doing new research myself, I think it would be fairer to say that by now most all ccTLDs have an accommodation with, even if they are not operated by, a government agency. And, ccTLDs are more or less market-oriented almost irrespective of the legal form of the operator.


- Second point, not to speak ill of the heroic, but for the historical record it was a '97? Postel aka IANA aka ISOC back in the pre-ICANN days + International Trademark Association + ITU (et.al.) discussion which led to the abortive Geneva plans. At least to my eyes that was not quite the idyllic triumvirate for an alternate present of global Internet peace and harmony, if not for that dastardly USG intervention leading to ICANN's creation, that some may wistfully wish to recall. Since clearly intellectual property - management - was going to be part of that future, one way or another.


Third point, Daniel is 1000% correct re Internet as an amalgam of interconnected  private networks.


Last point, legal - conflict of laws - over transborder data flows are far from a new phenomenon, rather they have been the subject of endless discussions, debates and more than a few treaties from the 1960s to the present.

(And yes I am not a lawyer, but occasionally play one on the Internet; and ok worked and studied at the Max Planck Institut fuer Auslaendisches und Internationales Privatrecht back in my prehistoric doc student days.) That the data crosses the world on the Internet, does not hugely change the legal treatment of - someone's data in case of a legal conflict. So my pedantic review for those new to this:


In general, domestic -commercial - law trumps international law, except in circumstances where - the state - has explicitly agreed to be bound by treaty obligations which it has pledged to uphold.


In the case of data protection and privacy, generally speaking, it is European law and Eu directives which have the greatest international impact, as firms doing business in Europe must promise to protect data (on EU citizens) to the EU standard, wherever that data sits. For many of the biggest multinationals, managing data protection for EU citizens differently than they manage data on US or Asian residents is too much of a bother, so they just follow EU data protection law on whomever, wherever the data sits.


Meaning, it is EU law's extraterritorial impact which lends us here in the US (or in Asia, Latin America, Africa) some slightly better data protection than might otherwise be the case.


So in sum on this point...US is far from the only nation or region whose legal formulations have international impact; and second, as in the case of the blanket protection EU (data protection) law provides essentially to the rest of the world, it is not necessarily a bad thing when (domestic) laws do have extraterritorial impact.


Bringing this all home to present circumstances of the Iran/Syria etc ccTLDs, it then follows that while moving ICANN's hq might be valued by many, without a new international treaty/international org agreement assuring certain areas of - international law - will override domestic preferences on certain classes/types of data in certain circumstances, it would have no impact in an analagous legal case, whether brought by US courts or those anywhere else. As I have said in other threads, there is nothing stopping courts in any other country from doing similarly stupid things as the US court just did. And similarly, essentially being lectured to by an ICANN tutorial on what ICANN -  can and cannot do.


Lee







________________________________
From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org <governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org> on behalf of Daniel Kalchev <daniel at digsys.bg>
Sent: Friday, August 1, 2014 4:59 AM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
Subject: Re: [governance] Fwd: Fwd: Fwd: [Members] US District Court for DC - IRAN/SYRIA - ICANN

There are some interesting points, see my comments below.


On 06.07.14 14:59, Guru गुरु wrote:
I thought this posting on another list may be useful to the discussion on the IGC thread  "Some more legal tangles for ICANN"
regards,
Guru

-------- Original Message --------
Subject:        [Members] US District Court for DC - IRAN/SYRIA - ICANN
Date:   Mon, 30 Jun 2014 13:14:12 +0200
From:   Jean-Christophe NOTHIAS I The Global Journal <jc.nothias at theglobaljournal.net><mailto:jc.nothias at theglobaljournal.net>
Reply-To:       members at justnetcoalition.org<mailto:members at justnetcoalition.org>
To:     Member Just_Net_Coalition <members at justnetcoalition.org><mailto:members at justnetcoalition.org>


Dear JNC members,

I thought I would wrap-up some facts and appreciation of a new case where Plaintiffs have requested the US District Court for the district of Columbia to turn to ICANN in order to seize whatever money, property, credit IRAN and Syria have at ICANN. This is a 'first', and worth to be looked at. Even though we are not legal expert for US law, it is a very interesting issue to look at in an Internet Governance perspective. Like anything related to US law and jurisdiction, this might take years before a conclusion can be reached -  right now these judgements have been made by default as Iran and Syria did not show up to the Court to defend themselves. Still the case is showing that the asymmetric role of the US in terms of Internet Governance is under critical challenge. It also shows that much of what is related to the management of the root zone (address book for the dot_something (.XYZ) is still missing international definition and agreements. This is part of the fact that IG has been into US hands, at least under the current form since 1998 when ICANN was incorporated and when Jon Postel's job at the root zone level was doing until then through IANA was also transfer to ICANN under the same acronym. The new IANA became part of the ICANN that same year Being an 'authority' and a 'department' of ICANN, IANA has no bylaws but is under strict supervision of the US Department of Commerce, through NTIA. Nothing can be change at the root zone level for TLDs (gTLDs or ccTLDs) without the consent of the US DoC. This helps to understand by the same token the role of IANA, as a department of ICANN under a double US oversight, ICANN being itself under contract with the US DoC.

The primary issue in this case, is the decision by the USG to play political games, when they devised this "If you don't threat your citizens the way we want you to, we will let them sue you in the US under our own laws and will 'lawfuly' steal your property in the US. So, do as we say!".
More powerful countries, such as Russia and Brasil (and to a lesser degree the "western democracy" countries) clearly told the US they do not care and they would subject US property in their respective area of control to about the same process (or worse).

By creating this procedure, the US has prepared a lot of Pandora Boxes or Cans of Worms, waiting to be opened..

As such, it is unfortunate, but quite understandable that some lawyer decided to drag ICANN into this mess. Understandable, because ICANN demonstrates it has lots of money to spend, is a public "shared irresponsibility" entity etc. Typical target for the typical US lawyer.

For many reasons, the ICANN processes are a mess. This too is heaven for lawyers. The good news is the community is slowly clearing up the mess. The bad news is this is a very slow process (and ICANN is thus vulnerable for longer period). The other bad news is there are new incentives at ICANN that create even more weak points (even if attempts are made to design them properly).

Out of everything else, IANA is the most interesting ... non-entity :)


Some debate took place into the IGC list, and I would start from there.

1_
It started here
http://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-us-terror-victims-now-own-irans-internet/

2_
A subscriber to the Civil Society Governance Caucus- IGC elist (Joly McFie) wrote on June 25:

"ICANN licenses the TLDs to different world governments who then are permitted to appoint agents who sell the domain names and their country specific internet suffixes to individuals, businesses and organizations."

1/ Is this strictly true?
2/ Does ICANN have a licence over ccTLDs?

Some honorable subscribers of the IGC list reacted, among others:

From Daniel Kalchev
- most ccTLDs were delegated before ICANN was even an idea and most ccTLDs managers are in fact not been appointed by any government.
- After all, Internet was, is and will be an worldwide private network.

From Wolfgang Kleinwächter:
- This is nonsense. The author of this piece does not understand, how the DNS works.

From McTim:
- This won't go anywhere... Just a lawyer trying to get attention for his case.
- The fees paid to ICANN from Iran are exactly zero.

3_
Then I posted On June 28 to the same IGC list the following information:

Here are the 6 "Writs of Attachment<https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_dOI5puxRA9M3hweE9Eel9mVTQ/edit?pli=1>" (5  vs IRAN; 1 vs Syria) as of June 24, 2014, notified to ICANN/IANA by the US District Court for the District of Columbia.

[cid:part6.07090705.00000304 at digsys.bg]

So no "if" and no "apparently" as some doubted on the list.

4_
There would be postings with opposing views, ones saying that there was nothing to worry about - ICANN would simply answer 'no'- and others saying that this was critical issue for the first-level domain for countries (ccTLD: country-code for Top Level Domain).

This is good, as if we were all of the same opinion, sometimes we would be all totally wrong and there would be no balance to help in cases of disaster.



5_
First, to be frank,  I would say that I was a bit disappointed with the comments on the IGC list. Some participants were supposedly able to provide a better perspective on the case. For example,
I believe that Wolfgang Kleinwächter, specially since he is working at ICANN, should have provided a better answer to Joly's question. "Non sense" means little if nothing. Sharing and distributing understanding is always worth the effort.

Daniel is quite right in his first assumption (Jon Postel did most of the delegation work prior to the NewCo ICANN/IANA, established in 1998). I would not be overly certain that the majority of ccTLDs mangers are not being appointed by governments. That could be investigated. A ccTLD being considered by governments as part of their "national sovereignty" I would challenge this assertion. National realities are often more subtile. More of a concern in my view is Daniel's idea of a "worldwide private network". This has little if no reality. Networks belong to Telecom Operators for the largest part, some being public, some private (under governmental regulations). Autonomous Systems do also belong to public or private entities. What can be seen as worldwide is "interconnectivity" - one can say that nobody owns the Interconnectivity, something essentially untrue when we speak of 'Internet'. A "private" thing? I do not see anything else than a public space here, where private interests might indeed be dominant.

I fully understand Wolfgang's position here. The Can of Worms, Pandora Box etc issues cannot be ignored and sometimes it's better to not dwell unnecessarily into details.. publicly.

However, it is a myth that Jon Postel himself made these delegations. The pre-ICANN delegation history is very complex and interesting to study -- for some reason the people in the know prefer to remain silent. Whatever the procedure was, when ICANN was (hastily) implemented, no proper process was followed to sort all this stuff out -- despite the community at that time held a lot of debates and a lot of good proposals were made.

I am also amused, that we still discuss who controls ccTLDs. It is easy to check who appointed each and every ccTLD. Even if this requires arranging in person meetings and asking each of them individually (first hand information, that is). The ccTLDs are not that many and the people who run them are usually communicative.

There are almost no exceptions, that at some point in time, national governments decided they should take over the respective ccTLD, for many different excuses, the most prevalent being "my cousin's son wants to play with this".

The Internet is different from other public communication networks. It differs in many aspects, including both technical and governance -- but all aspects share one common feature: everything on the Internet is designed to follow the normal human to human interaction model. In the Internet, everyone provides and consumes services to/from everyone else. There are sometimes middlemen, who one bright day discover the thing works without them, too -- no matter what they do. One could say, that the basic principle on which the Internet holds up together is the "mutual destruction fear". Like, for example: "Oh, I don't want those guys, so let's filter their SMTP server. Great, I won't hear from them ever again! Ugh, it turns out a friend of mine communicates with some friend of theirs and my friends says they won't talk to me anymore if I continue to be such an (insert appropriate cultural expression). So, even if I don't particularly like that guys, I am going to enable their SMTP server to talk to mine, because of my friend's needs. (or the service I provide to someone etc)"

This "Networks belong to Telecom Operators for the largest part" is a myth, *they* want you to believe in.
In reality, both your home network and your telecom's 'national backbone' have the same value for the Internet and for you. If your home network does not function, you can't access the Internet resources no matter how "great" the Telecom network is. It may also turn out, you don't communicate with your neighbor with the assistance of that Telecom, so their existence might be pretty much irrelevant to you. And the Internet.

As such, and because the Internet is defined by the end points, that are essentially owned/operated by individuals, you could view it as a network of private entities. The Internet is designed in such a way, that the intermediate network (and whatever other stuff lurks there) is irrelevant. If the end nodes can communicate with each other, you have Internet. If not -- you have nothing.

Now, Governments, under the guidance of Telecoms and other large corporations try to regulate this stuff, with the primary goal to ensure those "large investors" continued control and profits. But as long as the end nodes continue to not be dumb terminals fully controlled "by the network", this is pretty much impossible.

Maybe, I was not precise enough with my statement of the Internet being a private network. I did not mean to say the Internet is the private network of someone. Hope this never, ever happens. I meant to say the Internet is a network of individual entities, usually private persons. Private interests, those of the private individuals indeed dominate Internet. it is a public space in the sense that participation is not restricted.


McTim underestimates the "where" the Court request is leading. A simple "no" by ICANN/IANA/NTIA would not be the end for the US District Court to act.
McTim is right about the fact that Iran and Syria pay no fees to ICANN, but still this does not evacuate the idea, as per the Court appreciation and own view, that a ccTLD has great value. McTim has acknowledged this fact.

In as much as ccTLD may have great value, it is nothing more than a string of letters. A well known one, yes. But transferring the responsibility for that string of letters to someone else (what is being asked) could very obviously destroy whatever value it might have. It *will* also cause direct damage to the material interests of those who chose to have a name under that ccTLD.

This is an even bigger Can of Worms/Pandora Box -- is the US court prepared to deal with lawsuits and considering compensations for all those whose domains get wiped by this act?
This is the kind of "don't even think about it" kind of response ICANN should/have given.

Unfortunately, by being a political act, this law needs not follow common sense.


Back to Joly's "ICANN Licenses the ccTLDS..." Strictly true? ICANN having a license over ccTLDs

IANA, which is not an incorporate non profit, is a "department of ICANN". It is an 'authority' with no legal ground, no bylaws in the US, nor any International recognition. Still it has quite many responsibilities. One major constraint for ICANN/IANA regarding the root zone is that nothing can be changed in the root zone file without an approval by DoC (through NTIA).
The new IANA (part of the new ICANN) has taken over the continuity of handling the delegation<https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/delegation-2012-02-25-en> of the ccTLDs to registries since Jon Postel died in 1998, days before ICANN was incorporated with Vint Cerf as first president. By then IANA was funded by the US Department of Defense. We should all remember that Postel came to Geneva in 1997 where he intended to establish a non profit, with an international recognition from governments, a non profit that would handle the civilian root zone for the planet. His project was opposed by US diplomats in Geneva at the time.

IANA is *the* authority in what it does. International law nothing to do with it. IANA's role is to compile and maintain the list of DNS TLDs and various Internet protocol databases of numbers. Someone might have oversight of what IANA does, but the entity (no matter how it is constitutes) has the ultimate authority "what is which".

Imagine, I build a collection of post stamps. I am the ultimate authority over what goes into my collection. Now, imagine my collection has become very popular worldwide, is being refered to by many and some even use it as their reference point (precisely, what has happened with DNS and IANA). Do I cease to be *the* authority of my post stamp collection?
Yes, things might get more complex, but unless the authority itself decides to give up and transform somehow, nothing will change.



So to anwser Joly: Yes, IANA, a department of ICANN delegates (the verb to license would not be strictly right) each ccTLD to a unique entity/registry, but only after the US DoC approval. IANA is also responsible for re-delegation.
There is an RFC document (RFC1591), that documents the process, criteria etc. There is an Framework of Interpretation Working Group of the ccNSO to try explain in today's terminology what the intent of this document is and how it should be interpreted by IANA (because it became obvious that IANA was confused or pressured several times to do things that could not be explained by RFC1591).

This RFC1591 does not talk about the US DoC *at all*. Interesting, isn't it?
My interpretation on the current situation is as we know it, because it was USG who originally created IANA and they seek some way to preserve it, without being too much involved with it, as running such entity is not their task.

In the FOI working group we came to the conclusion, that RFC1591 does not provide for such a thing as "re-delegation". Such process consists of two acts -- the previous manager being removed from responsibility for the domain (revocation) and a new manager being tasked with that responsibility (delegation).


In the case of IRAN, the unique registry that has received the delegation to handle the ".IR" ccTLD is THE INSTITUTE for RESEARCH in FUNDAMENTAL SCIENCES, based in IRAN, and affiliated with the Iranian Ministry of Science, Research, and Technology founded in 1989 under the name of INSTITUTE for STUDIES in THEORETICAL PHYSICS and MATHEMATICS - this tends to document the fact that the registry for .IR is legitimate part of the state of IRAN. What can the US District Court do about this? Ask for the plaintiffs to become the unique registry for .IR? The new registry would then earn money thanks to the Iranian registrars that would keep using the .IR. Not a bad deal.

More likely, the entity who received the task to manage the .IR domain was someone who was working at/affiliated with the said institute. That individual likely decided (for various reasons, including their own safety) that it is better for them to not be so visible and the institute would manage the .IR registry. At least officially. There is no evidence, that the institute has a mandate (usually documented in their articles for incorporation or another such/related document) that they have "managing the .IR domain name registry" as their list of core functions. Unlikely they have such an assignment etc from the Iranian Government as well. The Iranian government confirming to ICANN that they wish/agree that the institute will run the said registry has nothing to do with any "property rights" or "ownership"...

What is the proper term for such desires, in the US culture? "Pipe Dreams"?

Running a ccTLD registry I can say this: registrars have contracts with the (whatever form) manager of the registry. Not with "the registry" in some abstract form. Nothing and nobody can force those registrars to sign a contract or pay any money to any other party, to whom the previous manager decided to transfer the "business" -- either forced or willingly.
This is especially true in such an political case -- chances are most .IR registrars are Iranian entities. Do you truly believe they will agree to pay money to some US based party that is confiscating their country's properties at will...
Most likely, those registrars/registrants will swallow the costs (and some, eventually sue the US big time, *in the US*) then move to some other TLD.


What would IANA consider as a possible reason to terminate the delegation of the .IR? If we look at what ICANN considers as a possible reason to terminate a registrar accreditation agreement<https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/ra-agreement-2009-05-21-en> (see 5.3 of the Registrar Accreditation Agreement, even though it does not seem to have its equivalent with registries). But who said that this could not happen when it comes to a registry issue? Again, in the absence of an international treaty clarifying many obscure points in terms of root zone policy, the many vacuums could be of great amusement to a US District Court. Again, that brings a very serious challenge to the global, transnational governance of the Internet. ICANN is now in a poor situation. Would ICANN give way to the US District Court request, many countries would take the opportunity to fully challenge ICANN in its fundaments. Would ICANN pass the hot potato to someone else (US DoC? IRFS, the Iranian registry? Nobody?) the Court might not like that answer, and might threatened ICANN to comply. We'll see.

There is a very big difference between the gTLDs ICANN created, the Registrar business ICANN created and the ccTLDs relationship with ICANN.
Many ccTLDs were created before ICANN existed. Many ccTLDs were created before RFC1591 was ever published.
All those ccTLD run perfectly well and serve the public Internet (see my comment on the Internet being 'private' above). Nobody wants this to change.


Still we have a pending question: what difference should be made between "to license" and "to delegate" a ccTLD?

I am not a lawyer, but could imagine it's night a day.

From my "technical" point of view, the delegation process is the act of recording who is responsible for the TLD. IANA, as such has no procedure to "chose" who the registry will be -- their task is to properly maintain record who the party is.

Licensing, is something that requires (pre-existing) regulation. Possibly, government-style.


Nobody really owns a domain name, and there are many indications that it could considered in the same way for TLDs. A TLD or domain name 'holder'/'tenant' pays a 'lease' for a domain. If the .COM is the property of ICANN or DoC, then .IR would then be the property of its current tenant. As with any lease, it can end if not renewed or be terminated by the delegating authority (if nobody is ultimate owner). So we definitely have a situation that isnot clear, as a domain name is still not a property but holds intellectual property rights, turning it into a very valuable asset. You do not own the domain, you own the right to use it. This still means that any TLD has a commercial value, including ccTLDs, and is therefore an asset and subject to a Court sequestration warrant or redelegation request. And in this case, the judge is not asking for the moon, I would say.

As always, it is even more complex than this. :)
Consider for a moment, that there can exist an unlimited number of .IR ccTLDs. Or, in some of these parallel realities, .IRC could be a gTLD, or what they call it there.
We all try very hard to stick to this one reality we have chosen to inhabit, making compromises as neccesary, because of the "guaranteed mutual destruction" thing. Being a network of individuals, the Internet is impossible to be fully regulated, just as it is impossible to fully regulate individuals.

To further complicate things, to this day there are still ccTLDs that do not charge any fee for their registration services. Further to this, most ccTLDs do not pay ICANN any fees for the IANA service. This is perhaps because, the ICANN does the IANA service to the USG, not the ccTLDs. Any money transfers between ccTLD managers and ICANN are based on "we agree to fund you" principle.


Here is an excellent work funded by the US National Science Foundation and ITU related to "Policy, Business, Technical and Operational Considerations for the Management of a country code Top Level Domain (ccTLD) drafted in 2008. It is an interesting document<http://www.itu.int/ITU-D/cyb/ip/docs/itu-draft-cctld-guide.pdf>.

Regarding a possible redelegation, read what<http://www.iana.org/reports/2005/iq-report-05aug2005.pdf> happened to the .IQ (IRAK) in 2005. It's a IANA report worth to read. See again the role played by the US DoC and NTIA. Without putting in a US District Court.

One of the reason swhy the FOI working group was created...


All of that is not limited to the respective unique registries for IRAN and SYRIA (both countries are concerned with the US District Court of Columbia writs). The Writ has no limitation, quite to the contrary. Who said that the link between Iranian registrars and ICANN did not exist.  There are much more than the first-level domain (ccTLD) to be considered such as the second-level domain registration by registrars. What's about IPs? All of that enters into IANA, a department of ICANN, duties and performance.

Like I said, a Pandora Box. So the Iranian Government has done something, that the USG did not approve. They then go on an penalize (supposedly) Iranian individuals and commercial entities, claiming they penalize the Iranian Government. Further, because many international entities, including without doubt many US corporations/nonprofits hold .IR names too, they get penalized too.

Does this create any pressure to the Iranian Government (the original idea behind this little political game). Very likely not.


So apart from trying to predict with little to no chance the outcomes for this case, we see that in this situation the current state of Internet Governance is far from comfortable. So a lot of work to be done. Again we see that without clear definition, and international agreements, it will be difficult to find trust, clarity and democratic values.

Democracy dies centuries ago in ancient Greece and Rome. Remember?

If you understand that the Internet is a network of private entities, with their own interests -- everything falls in place. Then the "Internet Governance" task becomes one of disseminating knowledge and dealing with inter-personal conflicts. Even most wars are based on inter-personal conflicts...

Daniel


Comments are very welcome.

Thanks
Jean-Christophe Nothias

Chief Strategist,
Contents and Projects

(+41) 79 265 92 75
jc.nothias at globalgeneva.net<mailto:jc.nothias at globalgeneva.net>
@jc_nothias


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From parminder at itforchange.net  Mon Aug  4 00:51:16 2014
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2014 10:21:16 +0530
Subject: [governance] Fwd: Fwd: Fwd: [Members] US District Court for DC
 - IRAN/SYRIA - ICANN
In-Reply-To: <a8ce3c8ab2dc4efc8c97c73b09608e69@EX13-MBX-07.ad.syr.edu>
References: <53B928BE.3040603@itforchange.net> <53B93A3B.6090707@ITforChange.net>,<53DB56F7.3070702@digsys.bg> <a8ce3c8ab2dc4efc8c97c73b09608e69@EX13-MBX-07.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <53DF1144.1020104@itforchange.net>

Lee

Two response to the below about what you see as mitigating circumstances 
with regard to the anomaly of US holding jurisdictional control over 
Internet's root :

One, that in other cases, good EU laws help the privacy situation in the 
US, in what could be seen as an extra jurisdictional influence/ 
application. However, you are missing an important point here. There is 
no cosmic force which ensures that good laws have greater flow and 
impact across jurisdictions and bad laws, the opposite. No, it is not 
that way. So how is it? Laws backed by jurisdictions that have market/ 
economic muscle have considerable degree of cross-jurisdictional 
influence in today's closely connected world. There one political 
influence in this way is directly linked to ones economic means. This, I 
hope, you will agree is not a good thing. The best FoE and privacy laws 
of say Ghana would have absolutely no cross jurisdictional impact.

Democracy, one of the most basic of human rights, is premised on 
political equality of all people - one person, one vote, not one million 
dollar, one vote, principle. So, the example of EU laws that you proffer 
may perhaps delight a (democratically unthinking) EU mind, but it is not 
like giving good leads to what would be a democratic and just global order.

On the second logic that you give, that ICANN under any jurisdiction 
would be subject to national jurisdictional whims and vagaries:

One, the case being made is for ICANN  to be subject to international 
law and jurisdiction and not any national law/ jurisdiction. It is 
rather much easier than most people make out here.

Second, US has one of the worst global record of dis-regarding global 
opinion on matters that it sees as serving its national interest. 
Therefore it is is any case one of the worst possible jurisdictions  to 
leave the Internet root in. Many people for instance have argued that 
Switzerland would be a much better custodian, even in the interim as 
international legal framework for the Internet's root is being evolved.

I consider the arguments that you are giving simply as lazy status 
quo-ist arguments.

parminder


On Monday 04 August 2014 04:24 AM, Lee W McKnight wrote:
>
> A few comments to wade in for a moment:
>
>
> - IGC co-founder YJ Park's excellent doctoral thesis some years back 
> on 'ccTLDs between State and Market' provided quite a bit of info on 
> that balance and its historical evolution by ccTLD. Of course there 
> are many current sources of info as others have noted. Summarizing 
> admittedly without doing new research myself, I think it would be 
> fairer to say that by now most all ccTLDs have an accommodation with, 
> even if they are not operated by, a government agency. And, ccTLDs are 
> more or less market-oriented almost irrespective of the legal form of 
> the operator.
>
>
> - Second point, not to speak ill of the heroic, but for the historical 
> record it was a '97? Postel aka IANA aka ISOC back in the pre-ICANN 
> days + International Trademark Association + ITU (et.al.) discussion 
> which led to the abortive Geneva plans. At least to my eyes that was 
> not quite the idyllic triumvirate for an alternate present of global 
> Internet peace and harmony, if not for that dastardly USG intervention 
> leading to ICANN's creation, that some may wistfully wish to recall. 
> Since clearly intellectual property - management - was going to be 
> part of that future, one way or another.
>
>
> Third point, Daniel is 1000% correct re Internet as an amalgam of 
> interconnected  private networks.
>
>
> Last point, legal - conflict of laws - over transborder data flows are 
> far from a new phenomenon, rather they have been the subject of 
> endless discussions, debates and more than a few treaties from the 
> 1960s to the present.
>
> (And yes I am not a lawyer, but occasionally play one on the 
> Internet; and ok worked and studied at the Max Planck Institut fuer 
> Auslaendisches und Internationales Privatrecht back in my prehistoric 
> doc student days.) That the data crosses the world on the Internet, 
> does not hugely change the legal treatment of - someone's data in case 
> of a legal conflict. So my pedantic review for those new to this:
>
>
> In general, domestic -commercial - law trumps international law, 
> except in circumstances where - the state - has explicitly agreed to 
> be bound by treaty obligations which it has pledged to uphold.
>
>
> In the case of data protection and privacy, generally speaking, it is 
> European law and Eu directives which have the greatest 
> international impact, as firms doing business in Europe must promise 
> to protect data (on EU citizens) to the EU standard, wherever that 
> data sits. For many of the biggest multinationals, managing data 
> protection for EU citizens differently than they manage data on US or 
> Asian residents is too much of a bother, so they just follow EU data 
> protection law on whomever, wherever the data sits.
>
>
> Meaning, it is EU law's extraterritorial impact which lends us here in 
> the US (or in Asia, Latin America, Africa) some slightly better data 
> protection than might otherwise be the case.
>
>
> So in sum on this point...US is far from the only nation or region 
> whose legal formulations have international impact; and second, as in 
> the case of the blanket protection EU (data protection) law 
> provides essentially to the rest of the world, it is not necessarily a 
> bad thing when (domestic) laws do have extraterritorial impact.
>
>
> Bringing this all home to present circumstances of the Iran/Syria etc 
> ccTLDs, it then follows that while moving ICANN's hq might be valued 
> by many, without a new international treaty/international org 
> agreement assuring certain areas of - international law - will 
> override domestic preferences on certain classes/types of data in 
> certain circumstances, it would have no impact in an analagous legal 
> case, whether brought by US courts or those anywhere else. As I have 
> said in other threads, there is nothing stopping courts in any other 
> country from doing similarly stupid things as the US court just did. 
> And similarly, essentially being lectured to by an ICANN tutorial on 
> what ICANN -  can and cannot do.
>
>
> Lee
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org 
> <governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org> on behalf of Daniel Kalchev 
> <daniel at digsys.bg>
> *Sent:* Friday, August 1, 2014 4:59 AM
> *To:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> *Subject:* Re: [governance] Fwd: Fwd: Fwd: [Members] US District Court 
> for DC - IRAN/SYRIA - ICANN
> There are some interesting points, see my comments below.
>
>
> On 06.07.14 14:59, Guru गुरु wrote:
>> I thought this posting on another list may be useful to the 
>> discussion on the IGC thread "Some more legal tangles for ICANN"
>> regards,
>> Guru
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: 	[Members] US District Court for DC - IRAN/SYRIA - ICANN
>> Date: 	Mon, 30 Jun 2014 13:14:12 +0200
>> From: 	Jean-Christophe NOTHIAS I The Global Journal 
>> <jc.nothias at theglobaljournal.net>
>> Reply-To: 	members at justnetcoalition.org
>> To: 	Member Just_Net_Coalition <members at justnetcoalition.org>
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear JNC members,
>>
>> I thought I would wrap-up some facts and appreciation of a new case 
>> where Plaintiffs have requested the US District Court for the 
>> district of Columbia to turn to ICANN in order to seize whatever 
>> money, property, credit IRAN and Syria have at ICANN. This is a 
>> 'first', and worth to be looked at. Even though we are not legal 
>> expert for US law, it is a very interesting issue to look at in an 
>> Internet Governance perspective. Like anything related to US law and 
>> jurisdiction, this might take years before a conclusion can be 
>> reached -  right now these judgements have been made by default as 
>> Iran and Syria did not show up to the Court to defend themselves. 
>> Still the case is showing that the asymmetric role of the US in terms 
>> of Internet Governance is under critical challenge. It also shows 
>> that much of what is related to the management of the root zone 
>> (address book for the dot_something (.XYZ) is still missing 
>> international definition and agreements. This is part of the fact 
>> that IG has been into US hands, at least under the current form since 
>> 1998 when ICANN was incorporated and when Jon Postel's job at the 
>> root zone level was doing until then through IANA was also transfer 
>> to ICANN under the same acronym. The new IANA became part of the 
>> ICANN that same year Being an 'authority' and a 'department' of 
>> ICANN, IANA has no bylaws but is under strict supervision of the US 
>> Department of Commerce, through NTIA. Nothing can be change at the 
>> root zone level for TLDs (gTLDs or ccTLDs) without the consent of the 
>> US DoC. This helps to understand by the same token the role of IANA, 
>> as a department of ICANN under a double US oversight, ICANN being 
>> itself under contract with the US DoC.
>
> The primary issue in this case, is the decision by the USG to play 
> political games, when they devised this "If you don't threat your 
> citizens the way we want you to, we will let them sue you in the US 
> under our own laws and will 'lawfuly' steal your property in the US. 
> So, do as we say!".
> More powerful countries, such as Russia and Brasil (and to a lesser 
> degree the "western democracy" countries) clearly told the US they do 
> not care and they would subject US property in their respective area 
> of control to about the same process (or worse).
>
> By creating this procedure, the US has prepared a lot of Pandora Boxes 
> or Cans of Worms, waiting to be opened..
>
> As such, it is unfortunate, but quite understandable that some lawyer 
> decided to drag ICANN into this mess. Understandable, because ICANN 
> demonstrates it has lots of money to spend, is a public "shared 
> irresponsibility" entity etc. Typical target for the typical US lawyer.
>
> For many reasons, the ICANN processes are a mess. This too is heaven 
> for lawyers. The good news is the community is slowly clearing up the 
> mess. The bad news is this is a very slow process (and ICANN is thus 
> vulnerable for longer period). The other bad news is there are new 
> incentives at ICANN that create even more weak points (even if 
> attempts are made to design them properly).
>
> Out of everything else, IANA is the most interesting ... non-entity :)
>
>>
>> Some debate took place into the IGC list, and I would start from there.
>>
>> 1_
>> It started here
>> http://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-us-terror-victims-now-own-irans-internet/
>>
>> 2_
>> A subscriber to the Civil Society Governance Caucus- IGC elist (Joly 
>> McFie) wrote on June 25:
>>
>> "ICANN licenses the TLDs to different world governments who then are 
>> permitted to appoint agents who sell the domain names and their 
>> country specific internet suffixes to individuals, businesses and 
>> organizations."
>>
>> 1/ Is this strictly true?
>> 2/ Does ICANN have a licence over ccTLDs?
>>
>> Some honorable subscribers of the IGC list reacted, among others:
>>
>> From Daniel Kalchev
>> /- most ccTLDs were delegated before ICANN was even an idea and most 
>> ccTLDs managers are in fact not been appointed by any government./
>> /- After all, Internet was, is and will be an worldwide private network./
>>
>> From Wolfgang Kleinwächter:
>> /- This is nonsense. The author of this piece does not understand, 
>> how the DNS works. /
>>
>> From McTim:
>> /- This won't go anywhere... Just a lawyer trying to get attention 
>> for his case./
>> /- The fees paid to ICANN from Iran are exactly zero./
>> /
>> /
>> 3_
>> /
>> Then I posted On June 28 to the same IGC list the following information:
>>
>> Here are the 6 "Writs of Attachment 
>> <https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_dOI5puxRA9M3hweE9Eel9mVTQ/edit?pli=1>" 
>> (5  vs IRAN; 1 vs Syria) as of June 24, 2014, notified to ICANN/IANA 
>> by the US District Court for the District of Columbia.
>>
>>
>> So no "if" and no "apparently" as some doubted on the list.
>>
>> 4_
>> There would be postings with opposing views, ones saying that there 
>> was nothing to worry about - ICANN would simply answer 'no'- and 
>> others saying that this was critical issue for the first-level domain 
>> for countries (ccTLD: country-code for Top Level Domain).
>> /
>
> This is good, as if we were all of the same opinion, sometimes we 
> would be all totally wrong and there would be no balance to help in 
> cases of disaster.
>
>> /
>>
>>
>> 5_
>> /
>> First, to be frank,  I would say that I was a bit disappointed with 
>> the comments on the IGC list. Some participants were supposedly able 
>> to provide a better perspective on the case. For example, /
>> I believe that Wolfgang Kleinwächter, specially since he is working 
>> at ICANN, should have provided a better answer to Joly's question. 
>> "Non sense" means little if nothing. Sharing and distributing 
>> understanding is always worth the effort.
>> /
>> /
>>
>> Daniel is quite right in his first assumption (Jon Postel did most of 
>> the delegation work prior to the NewCo ICANN/IANA, established in 
>> 1998). I would not be overly certain that the majority of ccTLDs 
>> mangers are not being appointed by governments. That could be 
>> investigated. A ccTLD being considered by governments as part of 
>> their "national sovereignty" I would challenge this assertion. 
>> National realities are often more subtile. More of a concern in my 
>> view is Daniel's idea of a "*worldwide private network*". This has 
>> little if no reality. Networks belong to Telecom Operators for the 
>> largest part, some being *public*, some *private* (under governmental 
>> regulations). Autonomous Systems do also belong to *public* or 
>> *private* entities. What can be seen as *worldwide* is 
>> "*interconnectivity*" - one can say that nobody owns the 
>> Interconnectivity, something essentially untrue when we speak of 
>> 'Internet'. A "*private*" thing? I do not see anything else than a 
>> *public space* here, where *private* *interests* might indeed be 
>> *dominant*.
>> /
>
> I fully understand Wolfgang's position here. The Can of Worms, Pandora 
> Box etc issues cannot be ignored and sometimes it's better to not 
> dwell unnecessarily into details.. publicly.
>
> However, it is a myth that Jon Postel himself made these delegations. 
> The pre-ICANN delegation history is very complex and interesting to 
> study -- for some reason the people in the know prefer to remain 
> silent. Whatever the procedure was, when ICANN was (hastily) 
> implemented, no proper process was followed to sort all this stuff out 
> -- despite the community at that time held a lot of debates and a lot 
> of good proposals were made.
>
> I am also amused, that we still discuss who controls ccTLDs. It is 
> easy to check who appointed each and every ccTLD. Even if this 
> requires arranging in person meetings and asking each of them 
> individually (first hand information, that is). The ccTLDs are not 
> that many and the people who run them are usually communicative.
>
> There are almost no exceptions, that at some point in time, national 
> governments decided they should take over the respective ccTLD, for 
> many different excuses, the most prevalent being "my cousin's son 
> wants to play with this".
>
> The Internet is different from other public communication networks. It 
> differs in many aspects, including both technical and governance -- 
> but all aspects share one common feature: everything on the Internet 
> is designed to follow the normal human to human interaction model. In 
> the Internet, everyone provides and consumes services to/from everyone 
> else. There are sometimes middlemen, who one bright day discover the 
> thing works without them, too -- no matter what they do. One could 
> say, that the basic principle on which the Internet holds up together 
> is the "mutual destruction fear". Like, for example: "Oh, I don't want 
> those guys, so let's filter their SMTP server. Great, I won't hear 
> from them ever again! Ugh, it turns out a friend of mine communicates 
> with some friend of theirs and my friends says they won't talk to me 
> anymore if I continue to be such an (insert appropriate cultural 
> expression). So, even if I don't particularly like that guys, I am 
> going to enable their SMTP server to talk to mine, because of my 
> friend's needs. (or the service I provide to someone etc)"
>
> This "Networks belong to Telecom Operators for the largest part" is a 
> myth, *they* want you to believe in.
> In reality, both your home network and your telecom's 'national 
> backbone' have the same value for the Internet and for you. If your 
> home network does not function, you can't access the Internet 
> resources no matter how "great" the Telecom network is. It may also 
> turn out, you don't communicate with your neighbor with the assistance 
> of that Telecom, so their existence might be pretty much irrelevant to 
> you. And the Internet.
>
> As such, and because the Internet is defined by the end points, that 
> are essentially owned/operated by individuals, you could view it as a 
> network of private entities. The Internet is designed in such a way, 
> that the intermediate network (and whatever other stuff lurks there) 
> is irrelevant. If the end nodes can communicate with each other, you 
> have Internet. If not -- you have nothing.
>
> Now, Governments, under the guidance of Telecoms and other large 
> corporations try to regulate this stuff, with the primary goal to 
> ensure those "large investors" continued control and profits. But as 
> long as the end nodes continue to not be dumb terminals fully 
> controlled "by the network", this is pretty much impossible.
>
> Maybe, I was not precise enough with my statement of the Internet 
> being a private network. I did not mean to say the Internet is the 
> private network of someone. Hope this never, ever happens. I meant to 
> say the Internet is a network of individual entities, usually private 
> persons. Private interests, those of the private individuals indeed 
> dominate Internet. it is a public space in the sense that 
> participation is not restricted.
>
>> /
>>
>> McTim underestimates the "where" the Court request is leading. A 
>> simple "no" by ICANN/IANA/NTIA would not be the end for the US 
>> District Court to act.
>> McTim is right about the fact that Iran and Syria pay no fees to 
>> ICANN, but still this does not evacuate the idea, as per the Court 
>> appreciation and own view, that a ccTLD has great value. McTim has 
>> acknowledged this fact.
>> /
>
> In as much as ccTLD may have great value, it is nothing more than a 
> string of letters. A well known one, yes. But transferring the 
> responsibility for that string of letters to someone else (what is 
> being asked) could very obviously destroy whatever value it might 
> have. It *will* also cause direct damage to the material interests of 
> those who chose to have a name under that ccTLD.
>
> This is an even bigger Can of Worms/Pandora Box -- is the US court 
> prepared to deal with lawsuits and considering compensations for all 
> those whose domains get wiped by this act?
> This is the kind of "don't even think about it" kind of response ICANN 
> should/have given.
>
> Unfortunately, by being a political act, this law needs not follow 
> common sense.
>
>> /
>>
>> Back to Joly's "ICANN Licenses the ccTLDS..." Strictly true? ICANN 
>> having a license over ccTLDs
>>
>> IANA, which is not an incorporate non profit, is a "/department of 
>> ICANN/". It is an 'authority' with no legal ground, no bylaws in the 
>> US, nor any International recognition. Still it has quite many 
>> responsibilities. One major constraint for ICANN/IANA regarding the 
>> root zone is that nothing can be changed in the root zone file 
>> without an approval by DoC (through NTIA).
>> The new IANA (part of the new ICANN) has taken over the continuity of 
>> handling the delegation 
>> <https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/delegation-2012-02-25-en> of 
>> the ccTLDs to registries since Jon Postel died in 1998, days before 
>> ICANN was incorporated with Vint Cerf as first president. By then 
>> IANA was funded by the US Department of Defense. We should all 
>> remember that Postel came to Geneva in 1997 where he intended to 
>> establish a non profit, with an international recognition from 
>> governments, a non profit that would handle the civilian root zone 
>> for the planet. His project was opposed by US diplomats in Geneva at 
>> the time.
>> /
>
> IANA is *the* authority in what it does. International law nothing to 
> do with it. IANA's role is to compile and maintain the list of DNS 
> TLDs and various Internet protocol databases of numbers. Someone might 
> have oversight of what IANA does, but the entity (no matter how it is 
> constitutes) has the ultimate authority "what is which".
>
> Imagine, I build a collection of post stamps. I am the ultimate 
> authority over what goes into my collection. Now, imagine my 
> collection has become very popular worldwide, is being refered to by 
> many and some even use it as their reference point (precisely, what 
> has happened with DNS and IANA). Do I cease to be *the* authority of 
> my post stamp collection?
> Yes, things might get more complex, but unless the authority itself 
> decides to give up and transform somehow, nothing will change.
>
>
>> /
>>
>> So to anwser Joly: *Yes, IANA, a department of ICANN delegates (the 
>> verb to license would not be strictly right) each ccTLD to a unique 
>> entity/registry, but only after the US DoC approval. IANA is also 
>> responsible for re-delegation.*
>> /
> There is an RFC document (RFC1591), that documents the process, 
> criteria etc. There is an Framework of Interpretation Working Group of 
> the ccNSO to try explain in today's terminology what the intent of 
> this document is and how it should be interpreted by IANA (because it 
> became obvious that IANA was confused or pressured several times to do 
> things that could not be explained by RFC1591).
>
> This RFC1591 does not talk about the US DoC *at all*. Interesting, 
> isn't it?
> My interpretation on the current situation is as we know it, because 
> it was USG who originally created IANA and they seek some way to 
> preserve it, without being too much involved with it, as running such 
> entity is not their task.
>
> In the FOI working group we came to the conclusion, that RFC1591 does 
> not provide for such a thing as "re-delegation". Such process consists 
> of two acts -- the previous manager being removed from responsibility 
> for the domain (revocation) and a new manager being tasked with that 
> responsibility (delegation).
>
>> /
>>
>> In the case of IRAN, the unique registry that has received the 
>> delegation to handle the ".IR" ccTLD is THE INSTITUTE for RESEARCH in 
>> FUNDAMENTAL SCIENCES, based in IRAN, and affiliated with the Iranian 
>> Ministry of Science, Research, and Technology founded in 1989 under 
>> the name of INSTITUTE for STUDIES in THEORETICAL PHYSICS and 
>> MATHEMATICS - this tends to document the fact that the registry for 
>> .IR is legitimate part of the state of IRAN. What can the US District 
>> Court do about this? Ask for the plaintiffs to become the unique 
>> registry for .IR? The new registry would then earn money thanks to 
>> the Iranian registrars that would keep using the .IR. Not a bad deal.
>> /
>
> More likely, the entity who received the task to manage the .IR domain 
> was someone who was working at/affiliated with the said institute. 
> That individual likely decided (for various reasons, including their 
> own safety) that it is better for them to not be so visible and the 
> institute would manage the .IR registry. At least officially. There is 
> no evidence, that the institute has a mandate (usually documented in 
> their articles for incorporation or another such/related document) 
> that they have "managing the .IR domain name registry" as their list 
> of core functions. Unlikely they have such an assignment etc from the 
> Iranian Government as well. The Iranian government confirming to ICANN 
> that they wish/agree that the institute will run the said registry has 
> nothing to do with any "property rights" or "ownership"...
>
> What is the proper term for such desires, in the US culture? "Pipe 
> Dreams"?
>
> Running a ccTLD registry I can say this: registrars have contracts 
> with the (whatever form) manager of the registry. Not with "the 
> registry" in some abstract form. Nothing and nobody can force those 
> registrars to sign a contract or pay any money to any other party, to 
> whom the previous manager decided to transfer the "business" -- either 
> forced or willingly.
> This is especially true in such an political case -- chances are most 
> .IR registrars are Iranian entities. Do you truly believe they will 
> agree to pay money to some US based party that is confiscating their 
> country's properties at will...
> Most likely, those registrars/registrants will swallow the costs (and 
> some, eventually sue the US big time, *in the US*) then move to some 
> other TLD.
>
>> /
>>
>> What would IANA consider as a possible reason to terminate the 
>> delegation of the .IR? If we look at what ICANN considers as a 
>> possible reason to terminate a registrar accreditation agreement 
>> <https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/ra-agreement-2009-05-21-en> (see 
>> 5.3 of the Registrar Accreditation Agreement, even though it does not 
>> seem to have its equivalent with registries). But who said that this 
>> could not happen when it comes to a registry issue? Again, in the 
>> absence of an international treaty clarifying many obscure points in 
>> terms of root zone policy, the many vacuums could be of great 
>> amusement to a US District Court. Again, that brings a very serious 
>> challenge to the global, transnational governance of the Internet. 
>> ICANN is now in a poor situation. Would ICANN give way to the US 
>> District Court request, many countries would take the opportunity to 
>> fully challenge ICANN in its fundaments. Would ICANN pass the hot 
>> potato to someone else (US DoC? IRFS, the Iranian registry? Nobody?) 
>> the Court might not like that answer, and might threatened ICANN to 
>> comply. We'll see.
>> /
>
> There is a very big difference between the gTLDs ICANN created, the 
> Registrar business ICANN created and the ccTLDs relationship with ICANN.
> Many ccTLDs were created before ICANN existed. Many ccTLDs were 
> created before RFC1591 was ever published.
> All those ccTLD run perfectly well and serve the public Internet (see 
> my comment on the Internet being 'private' above). Nobody wants this 
> to change.
>
>> /
>>
>> Still we have a pending question: what difference should be made 
>> between "to license" and "to delegate" a ccTLD?
>> /
>
> I am not a lawyer, but could imagine it's night a day.
>
> From my "technical" point of view, the delegation process is the act 
> of recording who is responsible for the TLD. IANA, as such has no 
> procedure to "chose" who the registry will be -- their task is to 
> properly maintain record who the party is.
>
> Licensing, is something that requires (pre-existing) regulation. 
> Possibly, government-style.
>
>> /
>>
>> Nobody really owns a domain name, and there are many indications that 
>> it could considered in the same way for TLDs. A TLD or domain name 
>> 'holder'/'tenant' pays a 'lease' for a domain. If the .COM is the 
>> property of ICANN or DoC, then .IR would then be the property of its 
>> current tenant. As with any lease, it can end if not renewed or be 
>> terminated by the delegating authority (if nobody is ultimate owner). 
>> So we definitely have a situation that isnot clear, as a domain name 
>> is still not a property but holds intellectual property rights, 
>> turning it into a very valuable asset. You do not own the domain, you 
>> own the right to use it. This still means that any TLD has a 
>> commercial value, including ccTLDs, and is therefore an asset and 
>> subject to a Court sequestration warrant or redelegation request. And 
>> in this case, the judge is not asking for the moon, I would say.
>> /
>
> As always, it is even more complex than this. :)
> Consider for a moment, that there can exist an unlimited number of .IR 
> ccTLDs. Or, in some of these parallel realities, .IRC could be a gTLD, 
> or what they call it there.
> We all try very hard to stick to this one reality we have chosen to 
> inhabit, making compromises as neccesary, because of the "guaranteed 
> mutual destruction" thing. Being a network of individuals, the 
> Internet is impossible to be fully regulated, just as it is impossible 
> to fully regulate individuals.
>
> To further complicate things, to this day there are still ccTLDs that 
> do not charge any fee for their registration services. Further to 
> this, most ccTLDs do not pay ICANN any fees for the IANA service. This 
> is perhaps because, the ICANN does the IANA service to the USG, not 
> the ccTLDs. Any money transfers between ccTLD managers and ICANN are 
> based on "we agree to fund you" principle.
>
>> /
>>
>> Here is an excellent work funded by the US National Science 
>> Foundation and ITU related to "Policy, Business, Technical and 
>> Operational Considerations for the Management of a country code Top 
>> Level Domain (ccTLD) drafted in 2008. It is an interesting document 
>> <http://www.itu.int/ITU-D/cyb/ip/docs/itu-draft-cctld-guide.pdf>.
>>
>> Regarding a possible redelegation, read what 
>> <http://www.iana.org/reports/2005/iq-report-05aug2005.pdf> happened 
>> to the .IQ (IRAK) in 2005. It's a IANA report worth to read. See 
>> again the role played by the US DoC and NTIA. Without putting in a US 
>> District Court.
>> /
>
> One of the reason swhy the FOI working group was created...
>
>> /
>>
>> All of that is not limited to the respective unique registries for 
>> IRAN and SYRIA (both countries are concerned with the US District 
>> Court of Columbia writs). The Writ has no limitation, quite to the 
>> contrary. Who said that the link between Iranian registrars and ICANN 
>> did not exist.  There are much more than the first-level domain 
>> (ccTLD) to be considered such as the second-level domain registration 
>> by registrars. What's about IPs? All of that enters into IANA, a 
>> department of ICANN, duties and performance.
>> /
>
> Like I said, a Pandora Box. So the Iranian Government has done 
> something, that the USG did not approve. They then go on an penalize 
> (supposedly) Iranian individuals and commercial entities, claiming 
> they penalize the Iranian Government. Further, because many 
> international entities, including without doubt many US 
> corporations/nonprofits hold .IR names too, they get penalized too.
>
> Does this create any pressure to the Iranian Government (the original 
> idea behind this little political game). Very likely not.
>
>> /
>>
>> So apart from trying to predict with little to no chance the outcomes 
>> for this case, we see that in this situation the current state of 
>> Internet Governance is far from comfortable. So a lot of work to be 
>> done. Again we see that without clear definition, and international 
>> agreements, it will be difficult to find trust, clarity and 
>> democratic values.
>> /
>
> Democracy dies centuries ago in ancient Greece and Rome. Remember?
>
> If you understand that the Internet is a network of private entities, 
> with their own interests -- everything falls in place. Then the 
> "Internet Governance" task becomes one of disseminating knowledge and 
> dealing with inter-personal conflicts. Even most wars are based on 
> inter-personal conflicts...
>
> Daniel
>
>> /
>>
>> Comments are very welcome.
>>
>> Thanks
>> /
>> Jean-Christophe Nothias
>>
>> /Chief Strategist,/
>> /Contents and Projects
>> /
>> (+41) 79 265 92 75
>> jc.nothias at globalgeneva.net <mailto:jc.nothias at globalgeneva.net>
>> @jc_nothias
>>
>

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From jeanchristophe.nothias at gmail.com  Mon Aug  4 02:57:28 2014
From: jeanchristophe.nothias at gmail.com (Jean-Christophe Nothias)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 08:57:28 +0200
Subject: [governance] Fwd: Fwd: Fwd: [Members] US District Court for DC
 - IRAN/SYRIA - ICANN
In-Reply-To: <a8ce3c8ab2dc4efc8c97c73b09608e69@EX13-MBX-07.ad.syr.edu>
References: <53B928BE.3040603@itforchange.net> <53B93A3B.6090707@ITforChange.net>,<53DB56F7.3070702@digsys.bg> <a8ce3c8ab2dc4efc8c97c73b09608e69@EX13-MBX-07.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <9CABB907-C392-4913-B98E-E9C311DBF7C7@gmail.com>

Lee,

See below:

Thanks
JC

Le 4 août 2014 à 00:54, Lee W McKnight a écrit :

> A few comments to wade in for a moment:
> 
> - IGC co-founder YJ Park's excellent doctoral thesis some years back on 'ccTLDs between State and Market' provided quite a bit of info on that balance and its historical evolution by ccTLD. Of course there are many current sources of info as others have noted. Summarizing admittedly without doing new research myself, I think it would be fairer to say that by now most all ccTLDs have an accommodation with, even if they are not operated by, a government agency. And, ccTLDs are more or less market-oriented almost irrespective of the legal form of the operator.

I do not see the point with your "irrespective of the legal form of the operator", nor do I understand why a ccTLD is "more or less" market-oriented. "More or less" adds vagueness to unclarity. Are governments keen to agree with that assumption? We know that ccTLD domain names experience a larger growth that gTLDs: the reasons behind this trend are certainly worth to look at. Not to speak about the fact that many public entities in each respective countries tend to secure their public website with their respective ccTLD. Again for some public interest and legal reasons. So, no, a ccLTD is not a pure market thing.
> 
> - Second point, not to speak ill of the heroic, but for the historical record it was a '97? Postel aka IANA aka ISOC back in the pre-ICANN days + International Trademark Association + ITU (et.al.) discussion which led to the abortive Geneva plans. At least to my eyes that was not quite the idyllic triumvirate for an alternate present of global Internet peace and harmony, if not for that dastardly USG intervention leading to ICANN's creation, that some may wistfully wish to recall. Since clearly intellectual property - management - was going to be part of that future, one way or another.

Idyllic? Well let's simply say that Postel's move to Geneva was certainly based on no idyllic vision. As a moral authority, a mathematician, a computer scientist, the editor of the RFC, the head for former IANA, Postel was certainly not an utopian. So his intention was probably based on some serious concerns -  the same concerns that took him, months after his Geneva attempt's failure - thanks to US diplomats - into re-rooting some of the 12 slaves of the root zone management to a new master. When Ira Magaziner called Postel to stop him from going any further with that re-rooting, that was pure "rapport de force". I am pretty confident that he understood what was going on in DC, thanks to Al Gore commercial vision of Internet, as early as 1995. In 1997, things were indeed pretty clear when looking at the intention of the US government. Postel was not blind on this. In January 1998, the re-rooting was simply an act of rebellion. Even though, there are many good storytellers among the US status-quoers, Postel was right on the money.
> 
> Third point, Daniel is 1000% correct re Internet as an amalgam of interconnected  private networks.

We agree on the "amalgam". Just for the record, many of these networks are not privately owned, as many of them are simply owned by entities that belongs to the state, or that have a large part of their stocks that belong to the state. Just take Orange for example. For many years, States have understood communication as a critical asset, and still tend to have many concerns about who holds telecommunication and networks. It doesn't mean that this is a good thing. But it is a fact. So I would assume that your 1'000% is simply wrong. Worse is the fact that in some countries - to start with the US - some private networks have turned themselves in monopolies, with little to no competition.

Regarding the following, I think some good comments have already been made in the thread.




> 
> Last point, legal - conflict of laws - over transborder data flows are far from a new phenomenon, rather they have been the subject of endless discussions, debates and more than a few treaties from the 1960s to the present.
> (And yes I am not a lawyer, but occasionally play one on the Internet; and ok worked and studied at the Max Planck Institut fuer Auslaendisches und Internationales Privatrecht back in my prehistoric doc student days.) That the data crosses the world on the Internet, does not hugely change the legal treatment of - someone's data in case of a legal conflict. So my pedantic review for those new to this:
> 
> In general, domestic -commercial - law trumps international law, except in circumstances where - the state - has explicitly agreed to be bound by treaty obligations which it has pledged to uphold.
> 
> In the case of data protection and privacy, generally speaking, it is European law and Eu directives which have the greatest international impact, as firms doing business in Europe must promise to protect data (on EU citizens) to the EU standard, wherever that data sits. For many of the biggest multinationals, managing data protection for EU citizens differently than they manage data on US or Asian residents is too much of a bother, so they just follow EU data protection law on whomever, wherever the data sits.
> 
> Meaning, it is EU law's extraterritorial impact which lends us here in the US (or in Asia, Latin America, Africa) some slightly better data protection than might otherwise be the case.
> 
> So in sum on this point...US is far from the only nation or region whose legal formulations have international impact; and second, as in the case of the blanket protection EU (data protection) law provides essentially to the rest of the world, it is not necessarily a bad thing when (domestic) laws do have extraterritorial impact.
> 
> Bringing this all home to present circumstances of the Iran/Syria etc ccTLDs, it then follows that while moving ICANN's hq might be valued by many, without a new international treaty/international org agreement assuring certain areas of - international law - will override domestic preferences on certain classes/types of data in certain circumstances, it would have no impact in an analagous legal case, whether brought by US courts or those anywhere else. As I have said in other threads, there is nothing stopping courts in any other country from doing similarly stupid things as the US court just did. And similarly, essentially being lectured to by an ICANN tutorial on what ICANN -  can and cannot do.   
> 
> Lee
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org <governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org> on behalf of Daniel Kalchev <daniel at digsys.bg>
> Sent: Friday, August 1, 2014 4:59 AM
> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> Subject: Re: [governance] Fwd: Fwd: Fwd: [Members] US District Court for DC - IRAN/SYRIA - ICANN
>  
> There are some interesting points, see my comments below.
> 
> 
> On 06.07.14 14:59, Guru गुरु wrote:
>> I thought this posting on another list may be useful to the discussion on the IGC thread  "Some more legal tangles for ICANN"
>> regards,
>> Guru
>> 
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject:	[Members] US District Court for DC - IRAN/SYRIA - ICANN
>> Date:	Mon, 30 Jun 2014 13:14:12 +0200
>> From:	Jean-Christophe NOTHIAS I The Global Journal <jc.nothias at theglobaljournal.net>
>> Reply-To:	members at justnetcoalition.org
>> To:	Member Just_Net_Coalition <members at justnetcoalition.org>
>> 
>> 
>> Dear JNC members,
>> 
>> I thought I would wrap-up some facts and appreciation of a new case where Plaintiffs have requested the US District Court for the district of Columbia to turn to ICANN in order to seize whatever money, property, credit IRAN and Syria have at ICANN. This is a 'first', and worth to be looked at. Even though we are not legal expert for US law, it is a very interesting issue to look at in an Internet Governance perspective. Like anything related to US law and jurisdiction, this might take years before a conclusion can be reached -  right now these judgements have been made by default as Iran and Syria did not show up to the Court to defend themselves. Still the case is showing that the asymmetric role of the US in terms of Internet Governance is under critical challenge. It also shows that much of what is related to the management of the root zone (address book for the dot_something (.XYZ) is still missing international definition and agreements. This is part of the fact that IG has been into US hands, at least under the current form since 1998 when ICANN was incorporated and when Jon Postel's job at the root zone level was doing until then through IANA was also transfer to ICANN under the same acronym. The new IANA became part of the ICANN that same year Being an 'authority' and a 'department' of ICANN, IANA has no bylaws but is under strict supervision of the US Department of Commerce, through NTIA. Nothing can be change at the root zone level for TLDs (gTLDs or ccTLDs) without the consent of the US DoC. This helps to understand by the same token the role of IANA, as a department of ICANN under a double US oversight, ICANN being itself under contract with the US DoC.
> 
> The primary issue in this case, is the decision by the USG to play political games, when they devised this "If you don't threat your citizens the way we want you to, we will let them sue you in the US under our own laws and will 'lawfuly' steal your property in the US. So, do as we say!".
> More powerful countries, such as Russia and Brasil (and to a lesser degree the "western democracy" countries) clearly told the US they do not care and they would subject US property in their respective area of control to about the same process (or worse).
> 
> By creating this procedure, the US has prepared a lot of Pandora Boxes or Cans of Worms, waiting to be opened..
> 
> As such, it is unfortunate, but quite understandable that some lawyer decided to drag ICANN into this mess. Understandable, because ICANN demonstrates it has lots of money to spend, is a public "shared irresponsibility" entity etc. Typical target for the typical US lawyer.
> 
> For many reasons, the ICANN processes are a mess. This too is heaven for lawyers. The good news is the community is slowly clearing up the mess. The bad news is this is a very slow process (and ICANN is thus vulnerable for longer period). The other bad news is there are new incentives at ICANN that create even more weak points (even if attempts are made to design them properly).
> 
> Out of everything else, IANA is the most interesting ... non-entity :)
> 
>> 
>> Some debate took place into the IGC list, and I would start from there.
>> 
>> 1_
>> It started here
>> http://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-us-terror-victims-now-own-irans-internet/
>> 
>> 2_
>> A subscriber to the Civil Society Governance Caucus- IGC elist (Joly McFie) wrote on June 25:
>> 
>> "ICANN licenses the TLDs to different world governments who then are permitted to appoint agents who sell the domain names and their country specific internet suffixes to individuals, businesses and organizations."
>> 
>> 1/ Is this strictly true? 
>> 2/ Does ICANN have a licence over ccTLDs?
>> 
>> Some honorable subscribers of the IGC list reacted, among others:
>> 
>> From Daniel Kalchev
>> - most ccTLDs were delegated before ICANN was even an idea and most ccTLDs managers are in fact not been appointed by any government.
>> - After all, Internet was, is and will be an worldwide private network.
>> 
>> From Wolfgang Kleinwächter:
>> - This is nonsense. The author of this piece does not understand, how the DNS works. 
>> 
>> From McTim:
>> - This won't go anywhere... Just a lawyer trying to get attention for his case.
>> - The fees paid to ICANN from Iran are exactly zero.
>> 
>> 3_
>> Then I posted On June 28 to the same IGC list the following information:
>> 
>> Here are the 6 "Writs of Attachment" (5  vs IRAN; 1 vs Syria) as of June 24, 2014, notified to ICANN/IANA by the US District Court for the District of Columbia.
>> 
>> <ATT00001.png>
>> 
>> So no "if" and no "apparently" as some doubted on the list.
>> 
>> 4_
>> There would be postings with opposing views, ones saying that there was nothing to worry about - ICANN would simply answer 'no'- and others saying that this was critical issue for the first-level domain for countries (ccTLD: country-code for Top Level Domain).
> 
> This is good, as if we were all of the same opinion, sometimes we would be all totally wrong and there would be no balance to help in cases of disaster.
> 
>> 
>> 
>> 5_
>> First, to be frank,  I would say that I was a bit disappointed with the comments on the IGC list. Some participants were supposedly able to provide a better perspective on the case. For example,  I believe that Wolfgang Kleinwächter, specially since he is working at ICANN, should have provided a better answer to Joly's question. "Non sense" means little if nothing. Sharing and distributing understanding is always worth the effort.
>> 
>> Daniel is quite right in his first assumption (Jon Postel did most of the delegation work prior to the NewCo ICANN/IANA, established in 1998). I would not be overly certain that the majority of ccTLDs mangers are not being appointed by governments. That could be investigated. A ccTLD being considered by governments as part of their "national sovereignty" I would challenge this assertion. National realities are often more subtile. More of a concern in my view is Daniel's idea of a "worldwide private network". This has little if no reality. Networks belong to Telecom Operators for the largest part, some being public, some private (under governmental regulations). Autonomous Systems do also belong to public or private entities. What can be seen as worldwide is "interconnectivity" - one can say that nobody owns the Interconnectivity, something essentially untrue when we speak of 'Internet'. A "private" thing? I do not see anything else than a public space here, where private interests might indeed be dominant.
> 
> I fully understand Wolfgang's position here. The Can of Worms, Pandora Box etc issues cannot be ignored and sometimes it's better to not dwell unnecessarily into details.. publicly.
> 
> However, it is a myth that Jon Postel himself made these delegations. The pre-ICANN delegation history is very complex and interesting to study -- for some reason the people in the know prefer to remain silent. Whatever the procedure was, when ICANN was (hastily) implemented, no proper process was followed to sort all this stuff out -- despite the community at that time held a lot of debates and a lot of good proposals were made.
> 
> I am also amused, that we still discuss who controls ccTLDs. It is easy to check who appointed each and every ccTLD. Even if this requires arranging in person meetings and asking each of them individually (first hand information, that is). The ccTLDs are not that many and the people who run them are usually communicative.
> 
> There are almost no exceptions, that at some point in time, national governments decided they should take over the respective ccTLD, for many different excuses, the most prevalent being "my cousin's son wants to play with this".
> 
> The Internet is different from other public communication networks. It differs in many aspects, including both technical and governance -- but all aspects share one common feature: everything on the Internet is designed to follow the normal human to human interaction model. In the Internet, everyone provides and consumes services to/from everyone else. There are sometimes middlemen, who one bright day discover the thing works without them, too -- no matter what they do. One could say, that the basic principle on which the Internet holds up together is the "mutual destruction fear". Like, for example: "Oh, I don't want those guys, so let's filter their SMTP server. Great, I won't hear from them ever again! Ugh, it turns out a friend of mine communicates with some friend of theirs and my friends says they won't talk to me anymore if I continue to be such an (insert appropriate cultural expression). So, even if I don't particularly like that guys, I am going to enable their SMTP server to talk to mine, because of my friend's needs. (or the service I provide to someone etc)"
> 
> This "Networks belong to Telecom Operators for the largest part" is a myth, *they* want you to believe in.
> In reality, both your home network and your telecom's 'national backbone' have the same value for the Internet and for you. If your home network does not function, you can't access the Internet resources no matter how "great" the Telecom network is. It may also turn out, you don't communicate with your neighbor with the assistance of that Telecom, so their existence might be pretty much irrelevant to you. And the Internet.
> 
> As such, and because the Internet is defined by the end points, that are essentially owned/operated by individuals, you could view it as a network of private entities. The Internet is designed in such a way, that the intermediate network (and whatever other stuff lurks there) is irrelevant. If the end nodes can communicate with each other, you have Internet. If not -- you have nothing.
> 
> Now, Governments, under the guidance of Telecoms and other large corporations try to regulate this stuff, with the primary goal to ensure those "large investors" continued control and profits. But as long as the end nodes continue to not be dumb terminals fully controlled "by the network", this is pretty much impossible.
> 
> Maybe, I was not precise enough with my statement of the Internet being a private network. I did not mean to say the Internet is the private network of someone. Hope this never, ever happens. I meant to say the Internet is a network of individual entities, usually private persons. Private interests, those of the private individuals indeed dominate Internet. it is a public space in the sense that participation is not restricted.
> 
>> 
>> McTim underestimates the "where" the Court request is leading. A simple "no" by ICANN/IANA/NTIA would not be the end for the US District Court to act. 
>> McTim is right about the fact that Iran and Syria pay no fees to ICANN, but still this does not evacuate the idea, as per the Court appreciation and own view, that a ccTLD has great value. McTim has acknowledged this fact.
> 
> In as much as ccTLD may have great value, it is nothing more than a string of letters. A well known one, yes. But transferring the responsibility for that string of letters to someone else (what is being asked) could very obviously destroy whatever value it might have. It *will* also cause direct damage to the material interests of those who chose to have a name under that ccTLD. 
> 
> This is an even bigger Can of Worms/Pandora Box -- is the US court prepared to deal with lawsuits and considering compensations for all those whose domains get wiped by this act?
> This is the kind of "don't even think about it" kind of response ICANN should/have given. 
> 
> Unfortunately, by being a political act, this law needs not follow common sense.
> 
>> 
>> Back to Joly's "ICANN Licenses the ccTLDS..." Strictly true? ICANN having a license over ccTLDs
>> 
>> IANA, which is not an incorporate non profit, is a "department of ICANN". It is an 'authority' with no legal ground, no bylaws in the US, nor any International recognition. Still it has quite many responsibilities. One major constraint for ICANN/IANA regarding the root zone is that nothing can be changed in the root zone file without an approval by DoC (through NTIA).
>> The new IANA (part of the new ICANN) has taken over the continuity of handling the delegation of the ccTLDs to registries since Jon Postel died in 1998, days before ICANN was incorporated with Vint Cerf as first president. By then IANA was funded by the US Department of Defense. We should all remember that Postel came to Geneva in 1997 where he intended to establish a non profit, with an international recognition from governments, a non profit that would handle the civilian root zone for the planet. His project was opposed by US diplomats in Geneva at the time.
> 
> IANA is *the* authority in what it does. International law nothing to do with it. IANA's role is to compile and maintain the list of DNS TLDs and various Internet protocol databases of numbers. Someone might have oversight of what IANA does, but the entity (no matter how it is constitutes) has the ultimate authority "what is which".
> 
> Imagine, I build a collection of post stamps. I am the ultimate authority over what goes into my collection. Now, imagine my collection has become very popular worldwide, is being refered to by many and some even use it as their reference point (precisely, what has happened with DNS and IANA). Do I cease to be *the* authority of my post stamp collection?
> Yes, things might get more complex, but unless the authority itself decides to give up and transform somehow, nothing will change.
> 
> 
>> 
>> So to anwser Joly: Yes, IANA, a department of ICANN delegates (the verb to license would not be strictly right) each ccTLD to a unique entity/registry, but only after the US DoC approval. IANA is also responsible for re-delegation.
> There is an RFC document (RFC1591), that documents the process, criteria etc. There is an Framework of Interpretation Working Group of the ccNSO to try explain in today's terminology what the intent of this document is and how it should be interpreted by IANA (because it became obvious that IANA was confused or pressured several times to do things that could not be explained by RFC1591).
> 
> This RFC1591 does not talk about the US DoC *at all*. Interesting, isn't it?
> My interpretation on the current situation is as we know it, because it was USG who originally created IANA and they seek some way to preserve it, without being too much involved with it, as running such entity is not their task.
> 
> In the FOI working group we came to the conclusion, that RFC1591 does not provide for such a thing as "re-delegation". Such process consists of two acts -- the previous manager being removed from responsibility for the domain (revocation) and a new manager being tasked with that responsibility (delegation).
> 
>> 
>> In the case of IRAN, the unique registry that has received the delegation to handle the ".IR" ccTLD is THE INSTITUTE for RESEARCH in FUNDAMENTAL SCIENCES, based in IRAN, and affiliated with the Iranian Ministry of Science, Research, and Technology founded in 1989 under the name of INSTITUTE for STUDIES in THEORETICAL PHYSICS and MATHEMATICS - this tends to document the fact that the registry for .IR is legitimate part of the state of IRAN. What can the US District Court do about this? Ask for the plaintiffs to become the unique registry for .IR? The new registry would then earn money thanks to the Iranian registrars that would keep using the .IR. Not a bad deal.
> 
> More likely, the entity who received the task to manage the .IR domain was someone who was working at/affiliated with the said institute. That individual likely decided (for various reasons, including their own safety) that it is better for them to not be so visible and the institute would manage the .IR registry. At least officially. There is no evidence, that the institute has a mandate (usually documented in their articles for incorporation or another such/related document) that they have "managing the .IR domain name registry" as their list of core functions. Unlikely they have such an assignment etc from the Iranian Government as well. The Iranian government confirming to ICANN that they wish/agree that the institute will run the said registry has nothing to do with any "property rights" or "ownership"... 
> 
> What is the proper term for such desires, in the US culture? "Pipe Dreams"?
> 
> Running a ccTLD registry I can say this: registrars have contracts with the (whatever form) manager of the registry. Not with "the registry" in some abstract form. Nothing and nobody can force those registrars to sign a contract or pay any money to any other party, to whom the previous manager decided to transfer the "business" -- either forced or willingly.
> This is especially true in such an political case -- chances are most .IR registrars are Iranian entities. Do you truly believe they will agree to pay money to some US based party that is confiscating their country's properties at will... 
> Most likely, those registrars/registrants will swallow the costs (and some, eventually sue the US big time, *in the US*) then move to some other TLD.
> 
>> 
>> What would IANA consider as a possible reason to terminate the delegation of the .IR? If we look at what ICANN considers as a possible reason to terminate a registrar accreditation agreement (see 5.3 of the Registrar Accreditation Agreement, even though it does not seem to have its equivalent with registries). But who said that this could not happen when it comes to a registry issue? Again, in the absence of an international treaty clarifying many obscure points in terms of root zone policy, the many vacuums could be of great amusement to a US District Court. Again, that brings a very serious challenge to the global, transnational governance of the Internet. ICANN is now in a poor situation. Would ICANN give way to the US District Court request, many countries would take the opportunity to fully challenge ICANN in its fundaments. Would ICANN pass the hot potato to someone else (US DoC? IRFS, the Iranian registry? Nobody?) the Court might not like that answer, and might threatened ICANN to comply. We'll see.
> 
> There is a very big difference between the gTLDs ICANN created, the Registrar business ICANN created and the ccTLDs relationship with ICANN.
> Many ccTLDs were created before ICANN existed. Many ccTLDs were created before RFC1591 was ever published.
> All those ccTLD run perfectly well and serve the public Internet (see my comment on the Internet being 'private' above). Nobody wants this to change.
> 
>> 
>> Still we have a pending question: what difference should be made between "to license" and "to delegate" a ccTLD? 
> 
> I am not a lawyer, but could imagine it's night a day.
> 
> From my "technical" point of view, the delegation process is the act of recording who is responsible for the TLD. IANA, as such has no procedure to "chose" who the registry will be -- their task is to properly maintain record who the party is.
> 
> Licensing, is something that requires (pre-existing) regulation. Possibly, government-style.
> 
>> 
>> Nobody really owns a domain name, and there are many indications that it could considered in the same way for TLDs. A TLD or domain name 'holder'/'tenant' pays a 'lease' for a domain. If the .COM is the property of ICANN or DoC, then .IR would then be the property of its current tenant. As with any lease, it can end if not renewed or be terminated by the delegating authority (if nobody is ultimate owner). So we definitely have a situation that isnot clear, as a domain name is still not a property but holds intellectual property rights, turning it into a very valuable asset. You do not own the domain, you own the right to use it. This still means that any TLD has a commercial value, including ccTLDs, and is therefore an asset and subject to a Court sequestration warrant or redelegation request. And in this case, the judge is not asking for the moon, I would say.
> 
> As always, it is even more complex than this. :)
> Consider for a moment, that there can exist an unlimited number of .IR ccTLDs. Or, in some of these parallel realities, .IRC could be a gTLD, or what they call it there.
> We all try very hard to stick to this one reality we have chosen to inhabit, making compromises as neccesary, because of the "guaranteed mutual destruction" thing. Being a network of individuals, the Internet is impossible to be fully regulated, just as it is impossible to fully regulate individuals.
> 
> To further complicate things, to this day there are still ccTLDs that do not charge any fee for their registration services. Further to this, most ccTLDs do not pay ICANN any fees for the IANA service. This is perhaps because, the ICANN does the IANA service to the USG, not the ccTLDs. Any money transfers between ccTLD managers and ICANN are based on "we agree to fund you" principle.
> 
>> 
>> Here is an excellent work funded by the US National Science Foundation and ITU related to "Policy, Business, Technical and Operational Considerations for the Management of a country code Top Level Domain (ccTLD) drafted in 2008. It is an interesting document.
>> 
>> Regarding a possible redelegation, read what happened to the .IQ (IRAK) in 2005. It's a IANA report worth to read. See again the role played by the US DoC and NTIA. Without putting in a US District Court.
> 
> One of the reason swhy the FOI working group was created...
> 
>> 
>> All of that is not limited to the respective unique registries for IRAN and SYRIA (both countries are concerned with the US District Court of Columbia writs). The Writ has no limitation, quite to the contrary. Who said that the link between Iranian registrars and ICANN did not exist.  There are much more than the first-level domain (ccTLD) to be considered such as the second-level domain registration by registrars. What's about IPs? All of that enters into IANA, a department of ICANN, duties and performance.
> 
> Like I said, a Pandora Box. So the Iranian Government has done something, that the USG did not approve. They then go on an penalize (supposedly) Iranian individuals and commercial entities, claiming they penalize the Iranian Government. Further, because many international entities, including without doubt many US corporations/nonprofits hold .IR names too, they get penalized too.
> 
> Does this create any pressure to the Iranian Government (the original idea behind this little political game). Very likely not.
> 
>> 
>> So apart from trying to predict with little to no chance the outcomes for this case, we see that in this situation the current state of Internet Governance is far from comfortable. So a lot of work to be done. Again we see that without clear definition, and international agreements, it will be difficult to find trust, clarity and democratic values.
> 
> Democracy dies centuries ago in ancient Greece and Rome. Remember? 
> 
> If you understand that the Internet is a network of private entities, with their own interests -- everything falls in place. Then the "Internet Governance" task becomes one of disseminating knowledge and dealing with inter-personal conflicts. Even most wars are based on inter-personal conflicts... 
> 
> Daniel
> 
>> 
>> Comments are very welcome.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> Jean-Christophe Nothias
>> 
>> Chief Strategist,
>> Contents and Projects
>> 
>> (+41) 79 265 92 75
>> jc.nothias at globalgeneva.net
>> @jc_nothias
>> 
> 
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From joly at punkcast.com  Mon Aug  4 03:37:44 2014
From: joly at punkcast.com (Joly MacFie)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 03:37:44 -0400
Subject: [governance] REMOTE PARTICIPATION: Asia Pacific Regional Internet
 Governance Forum underway in Delhi #aprigf
Message-ID: <CAM9VJk1H0YOJMGRcAJvUax10EDW9-KY63w7kh2shtWf5r3ABPA@mail.gmail.com>

This is on it's second day, but the webcasts etc just started. A discussion
on Net Neutrality <http://2014.rigf.asia/workshop-proposal-17/> is due
shortly in track 1, after which there will be one on disability issues
<http://2014.rigf.asia/?page_id=149> in track 2.

 joly posted: " The Internet Society is a sponsor of 2014 Asia Pacific
Regional Internet Governance Forum (APrIGF) happening August 3 -6 2014 in
Delhi, India. The 2014 theme is 'Internet to Equinet - An Equitable
Internet for the Next Billion'. APrIGF serves as a platfo"


[image: APrIGF] <http://2014.rigf.asia/> The *Internet Society
<http://internetsociety.org/>* is a sponsor of *2014 Asia Pacific Regional
Internet Governance Forum* <http://2014.rigf.asia/> (APrIGF) happening *August
3 -6 2014* in *Delhi, India*. The 2014 theme is '*Internet to Equinet - An
Equitable Internet for the Next Billion*'. APrIGF serves as a platform for
discussion, exchange and collaboration at a regional level, and also where
possible to aggregate national IGF discussions, and to foster
multi-lateral, multi-stakeholder discussion about issues pertinent to the
Internet in Asia. Video and live transcription of all tracks are provided
for remote participants, who can contribute via Adobe Connect. Delhi is on
UTC+5.5 = 9.5 hours ahead of NYC.

*What*: 2014 Asia Pacific Regional Internet Governance Forum
<http://2014.rigf.asia/> (APrIGF)
*Where*: Hotel Crowne Plaza, Greater Noida, Delhi, India
*When*: August 3-6 2014
*Agenda*: http://2014.rigf.asia/agenda/
*Remote Participation*: http://2014.rigf.asia/remote/
*Twitter*: #aprigf <https://twitter.com/search?f=realtime&q=aprigf&src=typd>


Comment <http://isoc-ny.org/p2/6868#respond>    See all comments
<http://isoc-ny.org/p2/6868#comments>





*Trouble clicking?* Copy and paste this URL into your browser:
http://isoc-ny.org/p2/6868







-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
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WWWhatsup NYC - http://wwwhatsup.com
 http://pinstand.com - http://punkcast.com
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From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de  Mon Aug  4 04:46:39 2014
From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang=22?=)
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2014 10:46:39 +0200
Subject: [governance] WSIS 10+
References: <53B928BE.3040603@itforchange.net>
 <53B93A3B.6090707@ITforChange.net> <53DB56F7.3070702@digsys.bg>
 <a8ce3c8ab2dc4efc8c97c73b09608e69@EX13-MBX-07.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID:  <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A801642514@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>

http://www.outlookindia.com/news/article/UN-Adopts-Resolution-on-Bridging-Digital-Divide/852511

Outlook India:
The resolution decided that the overall review will be concluded in December 2015 by a two-day General Assembly high-level meeting to be preceded by an inter-governmental preparatory process that also takes into account inputs from all relevant stakeholders of WSIS.  The intergovernmental negotiation process would begin in June 2015 and lead to an inter-governmentally agreed outcome document for adoption at the UNGA meeting. The process retains the ownership of the preparatory meetings and the final outcome document with member states alone. Mukerji said the resolution ensures that leaders, "at the highest possible level" will meet at the high-level plenary meeting in December next year to adopt the outcome of the intergovernmental negotiations.

Wolfgang:
One of the big achievements in the WSIS process was that civil society got a voice in the process. A Milestone was the CS WSIS Declaratzion from December 2003 which was handed over to the president of the first summit, WSIS 1. It became an official document. The Tunis Agenda confirmed and enhanced the role of civil society. As you can see from the text above, ten years later this process is back in the hands of "governments only". The final outcome document will be with member states only by taking into account inputs from all relevant stakeholders (which sounds like a joke with the experiences of a enhanced communicartion and cooperation over the last ten years, including the UNCSTD WGs. Should civil society write a letter to UN Secretary General Ban Kin Moon?
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From lorena at collaboratory.de  Mon Aug  4 04:55:48 2014
From: lorena at collaboratory.de (Lorena Jaume-Palasi)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 10:55:48 +0200
Subject: [governance] WSIS 10+
In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A801642514@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
References: <53B928BE.3040603@itforchange.net>
	<53B93A3B.6090707@ITforChange.net>
	<53DB56F7.3070702@digsys.bg>
	<a8ce3c8ab2dc4efc8c97c73b09608e69@EX13-MBX-07.ad.syr.edu>
	<2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A801642514@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
Message-ID: <CAPqXojLjo41nyObrUfXuekSFMEpT10ZOKrd3NBn4G7MYDeK=Ug@mail.gmail.com>

+1, yes I think a letter would be the least that should be done


2014-08-04 10:46 GMT+02:00 "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" <
wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de>:

>
> http://www.outlookindia.com/news/article/UN-Adopts-Resolution-on-Bridging-Digital-Divide/852511
>
> Outlook India:
> The resolution decided that the overall review will be concluded in
> December 2015 by a two-day General Assembly high-level meeting to be
> preceded by an inter-governmental preparatory process that also takes into
> account inputs from all relevant stakeholders of WSIS.  The
> intergovernmental negotiation process would begin in June 2015 and lead to
> an inter-governmentally agreed outcome document for adoption at the UNGA
> meeting. The process retains the ownership of the preparatory meetings and
> the final outcome document with member states alone. Mukerji said the
> resolution ensures that leaders, "at the highest possible level" will meet
> at the high-level plenary meeting in December next year to adopt the
> outcome of the intergovernmental negotiations.
>
> Wolfgang:
> One of the big achievements in the WSIS process was that civil society got
> a voice in the process. A Milestone was the CS WSIS Declaratzion from
> December 2003 which was handed over to the president of the first summit,
> WSIS 1. It became an official document. The Tunis Agenda confirmed and
> enhanced the role of civil society. As you can see from the text above, ten
> years later this process is back in the hands of "governments only". The
> final outcome document will be with member states only by taking into
> account inputs from all relevant stakeholders (which sounds like a joke
> with the experiences of a enhanced communicartion and cooperation over the
> last ten years, including the UNCSTD WGs. Should civil society write a
> letter to UN Secretary General Ban Kin Moon?
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
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>
>


-- 
Lorena Jaume-Palasí, M.A. ∙ Coordinator of the Global Internet Governance
(GIG) Ohu
 Internet & Gesellschaft Co:llaboratory e.V.
www.collaboratory.de ∙ Newsletter
<http://feedburner.google.com/fb/a/mailverify?uri=collaboratory&loc=de_DE> ∙
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From jc.nothias at theglobaljournal.net  Mon Aug  4 05:08:55 2014
From: jc.nothias at theglobaljournal.net (Jean-Christophe NOTHIAS I The Global Journal)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 11:08:55 +0200
Subject: [governance] WSIS 10+
In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A801642514@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
References: <53B928BE.3040603@itforchange.net> <53B93A3B.6090707@ITforChange.net> <53DB56F7.3070702@digsys.bg> <a8ce3c8ab2dc4efc8c97c73b09608e69@EX13-MBX-07.ad.syr.edu> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A801642514@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
Message-ID: <E4CF9883-AD66-4DCB-A8E2-D782667DE8D4@theglobaljournal.net>

Thanks Wolfgang,

One or two things that you might be keen to comment as well.
- Governments are neither blind nor deaf. We cannot assume that governments will not consider all of what has been said, discussed, written over the last 10 years. That would be dishonest. So please do not start do demonize them again.
- Should the US government had a different stand over the last 10 years, and not just a UN-bashing, other-governments bashing, democracy bashing, univocal stand, status-quoer attitude, we might have made much more progress to have CS (with its diversity of opinions and suggestions) as a stronger participant today. Domination delivers asymmetry, and until we have a democratic MS model to offer, there will be very little progress. 

We all know about the money Google, ICANN, the 5* and others put into the anti 2012 WCIT campaign, in attending any possible venue to shot at 'evil' governments, even the friendly ones. We cannot be surprised by the fact that governments have a voice, and that so far, only one government confiscated the mic among this category of stakeholder. I am not mentioning Sweden, the UK, Japan, and the commonwealth that have aligned themselves with USG for reasons I do not need to explain here.

It simply means that the multistakehoderism in use so far is greatly responsible for not giving all stakeholders in particular governments and CS, a better and larger representation of views and opinions within its fora.

So CS should write to USG and ask for a change not only in their tactic and strategy, but in their philosophy about IG governance. 

CS pays for that unilateral thinking by one small group of stakeholders.

A personal view obviously.

JC 

Le 4 août 2014 à 10:46, Kleinwächter, Wolfgang a écrit :

> http://www.outlookindia.com/news/article/UN-Adopts-Resolution-on-Bridging-Digital-Divide/852511
> 
> Outlook India:
> The resolution decided that the overall review will be concluded in December 2015 by a two-day General Assembly high-level meeting to be preceded by an inter-governmental preparatory process that also takes into account inputs from all relevant stakeholders of WSIS.  The intergovernmental negotiation process would begin in June 2015 and lead to an inter-governmentally agreed outcome document for adoption at the UNGA meeting. The process retains the ownership of the preparatory meetings and the final outcome document with member states alone. Mukerji said the resolution ensures that leaders, "at the highest possible level" will meet at the high-level plenary meeting in December next year to adopt the outcome of the intergovernmental negotiations.
> 
> Wolfgang:
> One of the big achievements in the WSIS process was that civil society got a voice in the process. A Milestone was the CS WSIS Declaratzion from December 2003 which was handed over to the president of the first summit, WSIS 1. It became an official document. The Tunis Agenda confirmed and enhanced the role of civil society. As you can see from the text above, ten years later this process is back in the hands of "governments only". The final outcome document will be with member states only by taking into account inputs from all relevant stakeholders (which sounds like a joke with the experiences of a enhanced communicartion and cooperation over the last ten years, including the UNCSTD WGs. Should civil society write a letter to UN Secretary General Ban Kin Moon?
> <ATT00001.png>____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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> 
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From jc.nothias at theglobaljournal.net  Mon Aug  4 05:18:00 2014
From: jc.nothias at theglobaljournal.net (Jean-Christophe NOTHIAS I The Global Journal)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 11:18:00 +0200
Subject: [governance] WSIS 10+
In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A801642514@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
References: <53B928BE.3040603@itforchange.net> <53B93A3B.6090707@ITforChange.net> <53DB56F7.3070702@digsys.bg> <a8ce3c8ab2dc4efc8c97c73b09608e69@EX13-MBX-07.ad.syr.edu> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A801642514@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
Message-ID: <4D8B9C3E-9136-4DE7-A295-57C742166B11@theglobaljournal.net>

Nota Bene: Wolfgang, I hope you noticed that I did not mention the troubling fact that the US surveillance of all Internet users browsing and emailing over the beautiful unified, un-fragmented Internet under one single root-zone management, and of all phone users, including president Rousseff, Chancellor Merkel, European diplomats, BRICS diplomats, all diplomats, politicians, citizens, that were hostage of the US surveillance paranoia and infernalia. We all pay for that.

So yes let's the CS write to USG and its digital champions. Let's start to balance our role.

That is something everyone has obviously in mind when considering the fact that governments are no longer to be seen out of the IG game. One good reason to have CS coming strong into the democratic multistakeholder model, JNC and others are advocating.

JC

Le 4 août 2014 à 10:46, Kleinwächter, Wolfgang a écrit :

> http://www.outlookindia.com/news/article/UN-Adopts-Resolution-on-Bridging-Digital-Divide/852511
> 
> Outlook India:
> The resolution decided that the overall review will be concluded in December 2015 by a two-day General Assembly high-level meeting to be preceded by an inter-governmental preparatory process that also takes into account inputs from all relevant stakeholders of WSIS.  The intergovernmental negotiation process would begin in June 2015 and lead to an inter-governmentally agreed outcome document for adoption at the UNGA meeting. The process retains the ownership of the preparatory meetings and the final outcome document with member states alone. Mukerji said the resolution ensures that leaders, "at the highest possible level" will meet at the high-level plenary meeting in December next year to adopt the outcome of the intergovernmental negotiations.
> 
> Wolfgang:
> One of the big achievements in the WSIS process was that civil society got a voice in the process. A Milestone was the CS WSIS Declaratzion from December 2003 which was handed over to the president of the first summit, WSIS 1. It became an official document. The Tunis Agenda confirmed and enhanced the role of civil society. As you can see from the text above, ten years later this process is back in the hands of "governments only". The final outcome document will be with member states only by taking into account inputs from all relevant stakeholders (which sounds like a joke with the experiences of a enhanced communicartion and cooperation over the last ten years, including the UNCSTD WGs. Should civil society write a letter to UN Secretary General Ban Kin Moon?
> <ATT00001.png>____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
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From parminder at itforchange.net  Mon Aug  4 05:38:00 2014
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2014 15:08:00 +0530
Subject: [governance] WSIS 10+
In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A801642514@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
References: <53B928BE.3040603@itforchange.net> <53B93A3B.6090707@ITforChange.net> <53DB56F7.3070702@digsys.bg> <a8ce3c8ab2dc4efc8c97c73b09608e69@EX13-MBX-07.ad.syr.edu> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A801642514@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
Message-ID: <53DF5478.5090904@itforchange.net>

Hi Wolfgang,

Losing even what we had in the form of the WSIS format is a huge huge 
loss, and it saddens me a lot. It is such a set back for participatory 
democracy at the global level. Yes, we must write a letter about it.

But, wait a minute. Let us for a moment also look at the IG civil 
society's role in getting us to this unfortunate pass.... Did we ever 
ask for the WSIS model (of course with evolutionary improvements) for 
WSIS plus 10 review. No, no one did. What was being asked for instead is 
as follows:

1. Dont do WSIS review, just forget it. Multistakeholderism (MS ism) has 
caught on, and NetMundial kind of MS events are the best way to move 
forward.

2. Ok, if you just must do something of a review, merge it with SDG 
(Sustainable Dev Goals) review, which really is another way to make the 
most important global IG issues disappear.

3. Next, do the review at as low a level as possible... Let the 
bureaucracy (and not political) level UN processes like those led by 
UNESCO and ITU stand as 'the' review.

4. Now, if you indeed must do a full WSIS plus 10 review, have it on an 
'equal footing' MS pattern, so everyone participates as equal in 
decision making processes throughout...


Further, at UN processes which did attempt some real multistakeholder 
participation like the WG on Enhanced Cooperation, all kinds of highly 
obstructionist methods and attitudes were displayed by many if not most 
non gov actors which really did not allow things to go anywhere. Because 
of which reason the WG work collapsed and it folded up without giving 
any recommendations, as it was supposed to do. The internal working of 
the WG, to which I was witness, was a real testimony to how highly 
resourced non gov actors can network, in fact gang up, so effectively to 
stop any useful policy process.

Do you think the above kinds of things contribute to giving confidence 
to governments that greater stakaeholder participation, under the 
conditions in which IG MSism works, is useful in taking forward the 
important agenda of providing the (very) necessary and urgent global 
political responses to the myriad challenges and opportunities that the 
Internet is throwing/ opening up. I very much doubt it. So as we write a 
letter, lets also examine our own role in all this.

parminder




On Monday 04 August 2014 02:16 PM, "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" wrote:
> http://www.outlookindia.com/news/article/UN-Adopts-Resolution-on-Bridging-Digital-Divide/852511
>
> Outlook India:
> The resolution decided that the overall review will be concluded in December 2015 by a two-day General Assembly high-level meeting to be preceded by an inter-governmental preparatory process that also takes into account inputs from all relevant stakeholders of WSIS.  The intergovernmental negotiation process would begin in June 2015 and lead to an inter-governmentally agreed outcome document for adoption at the UNGA meeting. The process retains the ownership of the preparatory meetings and the final outcome document with member states alone. Mukerji said the resolution ensures that leaders, "at the highest possible level" will meet at the high-level plenary meeting in December next year to adopt the outcome of the intergovernmental negotiations.
>
> Wolfgang:
> One of the big achievements in the WSIS process was that civil society got a voice in the process. A Milestone was the CS WSIS Declaratzion from December 2003 which was handed over to the president of the first summit, WSIS 1. It became an official document. The Tunis Agenda confirmed and enhanced the role of civil society. As you can see from the text above, ten years later this process is back in the hands of "governments only". The final outcome document will be with member states only by taking into account inputs from all relevant stakeholders (which sounds like a joke with the experiences of a enhanced communicartion and cooperation over the last ten years, including the UNCSTD WGs. Should civil society write a letter to UN Secretary General Ban Kin Moon?

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From suresh at hserus.net  Mon Aug  4 06:21:47 2014
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 05:21:47 -0500
Subject: [governance] WSIS 10+
In-Reply-To: <E4CF9883-AD66-4DCB-A8E2-D782667DE8D4@theglobaljournal.net>
References: <53B928BE.3040603@itforchange.net>
 <53B93A3B.6090707@ITforChange.net>
 <53DB56F7.3070702@digsys.bg>
 <a8ce3c8ab2dc4efc8c97c73b09608e69@EX13-MBX-07.ad.syr.edu>
 <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A801642514@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
 <E4CF9883-AD66-4DCB-A8E2-D782667DE8D4@theglobaljournal.net>
Message-ID: <20140804102147.GA18344@hserus.net>

Ah, more friendly fire. Wonderful. Civil society can spend its time
wrangling with industry, even industry forces friendly to it, and then we
can all sit back and watch this become a multilateral process.

Jean-Christophe NOTHIAS I The Global Journal [04/08/14 11:08 +0200]:
>Thanks Wolfgang,
>
>One or two things that you might be keen to comment as well.
>- Governments are neither blind nor deaf. We cannot assume that governments will not consider all of what has been said, discussed, written over the last 10 years. That would be dishonest. So please do not start do demonize them again.
>- Should the US government had a different stand over the last 10 years, and not just a UN-bashing, other-governments bashing, democracy bashing, univocal stand, status-quoer attitude, we might have made much more progress to have CS (with its diversity of opinions and suggestions) as a stronger participant today. Domination delivers asymmetry, and until we have a democratic MS model to offer, there will be very little progress.
>
>We all know about the money Google, ICANN, the 5* and others put into the anti 2012 WCIT campaign, in attending any possible venue to shot at 'evil' governments, even the friendly ones. We cannot be surprised by the fact that governments have a voice, and that so far, only one government confiscated the mic among this category of stakeholder. I am not mentioning Sweden, the UK, Japan, and the commonwealth that have aligned themselves with USG for reasons I do not need to explain here.
>
>It simply means that the multistakehoderism in use so far is greatly responsible for not giving all stakeholders in particular governments and CS, a better and larger representation of views and opinions within its fora.
>
>So CS should write to USG and ask for a change not only in their tactic and strategy, but in their philosophy about IG governance.
>
>CS pays for that unilateral thinking by one small group of stakeholders.
>
>A personal view obviously.
>
>JC
>
>Le 4 août 2014 à 10:46, Kleinwächter, Wolfgang a écrit :
>
>> http://www.outlookindia.com/news/article/UN-Adopts-Resolution-on-Bridging-Digital-Divide/852511
>>
>> Outlook India:
>> The resolution decided that the overall review will be concluded in December 2015 by a two-day General Assembly high-level meeting to be preceded by an inter-governmental preparatory process that also takes into account inputs from all relevant stakeholders of WSIS.  The intergovernmental negotiation process would begin in June 2015 and lead to an inter-governmentally agreed outcome document for adoption at the UNGA meeting. The process retains the ownership of the preparatory meetings and the final outcome document with member states alone. Mukerji said the resolution ensures that leaders, "at the highest possible level" will meet at the high-level plenary meeting in December next year to adopt the outcome of the intergovernmental negotiations.
>>
>> Wolfgang:
>> One of the big achievements in the WSIS process was that civil society got a voice in the process. A Milestone was the CS WSIS Declaratzion from December 2003 which was handed over to the president of the first summit, WSIS 1. It became an official document. The Tunis Agenda confirmed and enhanced the role of civil society. As you can see from the text above, ten years later this process is back in the hands of "governments only". The final outcome document will be with member states only by taking into account inputs from all relevant stakeholders (which sounds like a joke with the experiences of a enhanced communicartion and cooperation over the last ten years, including the UNCSTD WGs. Should civil society write a letter to UN Secretary General Ban Kin Moon?
>> <ATT00001.png>____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
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>

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From isolatedn at gmail.com  Mon Aug  4 07:25:54 2014
From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian M)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 16:55:54 +0530
Subject: [governance] REMOTE PARTICIPATION: Asia Pacific Regional
 Internet Governance Forum underway in Delhi #aprigf
In-Reply-To: <CAM9VJk1H0YOJMGRcAJvUax10EDW9-KY63w7kh2shtWf5r3ABPA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM9VJk1H0YOJMGRcAJvUax10EDW9-KY63w7kh2shtWf5r3ABPA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHyAo0Eq=FWSWHS5vBX1Ybq+pF_Eb5dsub3O=NKqczmF5JsMHA@mail.gmail.com>

Please join us, among other sessions,  for Workshop 12, scheduled to take
place Aug5 9 - 10 30 am India time,  (Aug4 23 30-Aug5 1.00 am)
http://2014.rigf.asia/agenda/workshop-proposals/workshop-proposal-12/

Thank you.
Sivasubramanian M

Sivasubramanian M <https://www.facebook.com/sivasubramanian.muthusamy>



On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 1:07 PM, Joly MacFie <joly at punkcast.com> wrote:

> This is on it's second day, but the webcasts etc just started. A discussion
> on Net Neutrality <http://2014.rigf.asia/workshop-proposal-17/> is due
> shortly in track 1, after which there will be one on disability issues
> <http://2014.rigf.asia/?page_id=149> in track 2.
>
>  joly posted: " The Internet Society is a sponsor of 2014 Asia Pacific
> Regional Internet Governance Forum (APrIGF) happening August 3 -6 2014 in
> Delhi, India. The 2014 theme is 'Internet to Equinet - An Equitable
> Internet for the Next Billion'. APrIGF serves as a platfo"
>
>
> [image: APrIGF] <http://2014.rigf.asia/> The *Internet Society
> <http://internetsociety.org/>* is a sponsor of *2014 Asia Pacific
> Regional Internet Governance Forum* <http://2014.rigf.asia/> (APrIGF)
> happening *August 3 -6 2014* in *Delhi, India*. The 2014 theme is '*Internet
> to Equinet - An Equitable Internet for the Next Billion*'. APrIGF serves
> as a platform for discussion, exchange and collaboration at a regional
> level, and also where possible to aggregate national IGF discussions, and
> to foster multi-lateral, multi-stakeholder discussion about issues
> pertinent to the Internet in Asia. Video and live transcription of all
> tracks are provided for remote participants, who can contribute via Adobe
> Connect. Delhi is on UTC+5.5 = 9.5 hours ahead of NYC.
>
> *What*: 2014 Asia Pacific Regional Internet Governance Forum
> <http://2014.rigf.asia/> (APrIGF)
> *Where*: Hotel Crowne Plaza, Greater Noida, Delhi, India
> *When*: August 3-6 2014
> *Agenda*: http://2014.rigf.asia/agenda/
> *Remote Participation*: http://2014.rigf.asia/remote/
> *Twitter*: #aprigf
> <https://twitter.com/search?f=realtime&q=aprigf&src=typd>
>
>
> Comment <http://isoc-ny.org/p2/6868#respond>    See all comments
> <http://isoc-ny.org/p2/6868#comments>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Trouble clicking?* Copy and paste this URL into your browser:
> http://isoc-ny.org/p2/6868
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Joly MacFie  218 565 9365 Skype:punkcast
> WWWhatsup NYC - http://wwwhatsup.com
>  http://pinstand.com - http://punkcast.com
>  VP (Admin) - ISOC-NY - http://isoc-ny.org
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> -
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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From daniel at digsys.bg  Mon Aug  4 10:44:36 2014
From: daniel at digsys.bg (Daniel Kalchev)
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2014 17:44:36 +0300
Subject: [governance] . (was Re: US District Court for DC - IRAN/SYRIA -
 ICANN)
In-Reply-To: <20140804001952.4e6844ae@quill>
References: <53B928BE.3040603@itforchange.net>	<53B93A3B.6090707@ITforChange.net>	<53DB56F7.3070702@digsys.bg>	<54FD24A3-5883-4F3F-A9DD-3769E1495215@gmail.com> <20140804001952.4e6844ae@quill>
Message-ID: <53DF9C54.2040105@digsys.bg>


On 04.08.14 01:19, Norbert Bollow wrote:
> Jean-Christophe Nothias <jeanchristophe.nothias at gmail.com> wrote, in
> response to an email of Daniel Kalchev:
>
>> Something worries me a bit, at the very end of your email.
>>
>>> Democracy dies centuries ago in ancient Greece and Rome. Remember?
>> What do you suggest here?
> While of course I can't speak for Daniel, in my view the point is very
> important that democracy is something which can die.
>
> We need to cherish and intentionally preserve and protect democracy,
> and insist that whatever serious bugs there may be in the current
> implementations must be fixed, if we don't want democracy to die on
> us again!
>
> Democracy must not be taken for granted.
>

This. Precisely my point.

Daniel

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From daniel at digsys.bg  Mon Aug  4 11:04:35 2014
From: daniel at digsys.bg (Daniel Kalchev)
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2014 18:04:35 +0300
Subject: [governance] WSIS 10+
In-Reply-To: <4D8B9C3E-9136-4DE7-A295-57C742166B11@theglobaljournal.net>
References: <53B928BE.3040603@itforchange.net> <53B93A3B.6090707@ITforChange.net> <53DB56F7.3070702@digsys.bg> <a8ce3c8ab2dc4efc8c97c73b09608e69@EX13-MBX-07.ad.syr.edu> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A801642514@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <4D8B9C3E-9136-4DE7-A295-57C742166B11@theglobaljournal.net>
Message-ID: <53DFA103.2090808@digsys.bg>


On 04.08.14 12:18, Jean-Christophe NOTHIAS I The Global Journal wrote:
> Nota Bene: Wolfgang, I hope you noticed that I did not mention the 
> troubling fact that the US surveillance of all Internet users browsing 
> and emailing over the beautiful unified, un-fragmented Internet under 
> one single root-zone management, and of all phone users, including 
> president Rousseff, Chancellor Merkel, European diplomats, BRICS 
> diplomats, all diplomats, politicians, citizens, that were hostage of 
> the US surveillance paranoia and infernalia. We all pay for that.

Yes, we do all pay for that.

But then, what can we do to resolve this situation? The US secret 
services agencies will continue to do all of this, no matter what. This 
is why they exist. Most of them run on military style management, and 
obeying orders is mandatory there. The same can be said about the secret 
services of any other country. Or any special interests group.

My experience dealing with this kind of 'operations' is that your 
working route is publicity. Talk about it. Don't let them do it in 
secret. Cops hate being exposed. Let Internet users become aware what is 
going on. Don't waste your time politicizing it, in the sense of "those 
bad XYZ spying on us good ABC", because this is nonsense (and not true 
in general). If Internet users don't mind being subject of surveillance, 
who are we to force them?

If Internet users are so upset about this situation, they as individuals 
having (whatever - voting, buying, etc) power will act up and fix it.

Isn't this how democracy should function? :-)

Daniel


>
> So yes let's the CS write to USG and its digital champions. Let's 
> start to balance our role.
>
> That is something everyone has obviously in mind when considering the 
> fact that governments are no longer to be seen out of the IG game. One 
> good reason to have CS coming strong into the democratic 
> multistakeholder model, JNC and others are advocating.
>
> JC
>
> Le 4 août 2014 à 10:46, Kleinwächter, Wolfgang a écrit :
>
>> http://www.outlookindia.com/news/article/UN-Adopts-Resolution-on-Bridging-Digital-Divide/852511
>>
>> Outlook India:
>> The resolution decided that the overall review will be concluded in 
>> December 2015 by a two-day General Assembly high-level meeting to be 
>> preceded by an inter-governmental preparatory process that also takes 
>> into account inputs from all relevant stakeholders of WSIS.  The 
>> intergovernmental negotiation process would begin in June 2015 and 
>> lead to an inter-governmentally agreed outcome document for adoption 
>> at the UNGA meeting. The process retains the ownership of the 
>> preparatory meetings and the final outcome document with member 
>> states alone. Mukerji said the resolution ensures that leaders, "at 
>> the highest possible level" will meet at the high-level plenary 
>> meeting in December next year to adopt the outcome of the 
>> intergovernmental negotiations.
>>
>> Wolfgang:
>> One of the big achievements in the WSIS process was that civil 
>> society got a voice in the process. A Milestone was the CS WSIS 
>> Declaratzion from December 2003 which was handed over to the 
>> president of the first summit, WSIS 1. It became an official 
>> document. The Tunis Agenda confirmed and enhanced the role of civil 
>> society. As you can see from the text above, ten years later this 
>> process is back in the hands of "governments only". The final outcome 
>> document will be with member states only by taking into account 
>> inputs from all relevant stakeholders (which sounds like a joke with 
>> the experiences of a enhanced communicartion and cooperation over the 
>> last ten years, including the UNCSTD WGs. Should civil society write 
>> a letter to UN Secretary General Ban Kin Moon?
>> <ATT00001.png>____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
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From jlfullsack at orange.fr  Mon Aug  4 11:17:42 2014
From: jlfullsack at orange.fr (Jean-Louis FULLSACK)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 17:17:42 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [governance] WSIS 10+
Message-ID: <24974541.14908.1407165462814.JavaMail.www@wwinf1p12>

 Dear all

 

Wolfgang wrote :

> One of the big achievements in the WSIS process was that civil society got a voice in the process. A Milestone was the CS WSIS Declaratzion from December 2003 which was handed over to the president of the first summit, WSIS 1.>

 

This enthousiastic view on the civil society's voice at WSIS doesn't reflect the reality.


First, the "milestone" CS WSIS Declaration was in fact a document resulting from a schism in the "WSIS multistakeholder community", precisely decided by the CS Plenary during PrepCom 3b because the very voice of CS wasn't sufficiently taken in account during the PrepCom process. Remember Adama Samassekou's desperate but vain efforts to convince the CS Plenary to join the official Geneva Declaration !

Second, the CS Declaration, despite the assertion of the WSIS Secretariate, isn't considered as an official WSIS outcome document. The latter are the WSIS Declaration of Principles and the Geneva Action Plan, as well as the Tunis Commitment and the Tunis Agenda for the Information Society (see http://www.itu.int/wsis/outcome/booklet/index-fr.html ). 

 

In a nutshell : If "CS got a voice", it's expression was at best considered to be pseudo-official ! This is pure WSIS/ITU multistakeholderism !

 

Best regards


 

Jean-Louis Fullsack


  


  


 

 

> Message du 04/08/14 10:47
> De : ""Kleinwächter, Wolfgang"" 
> A : governance at lists.igcaucus.org, governance at lists.igcaucus.org, "Daniel Kalchev" 
> Copie à : 
> Objet : [governance] WSIS 10+
> 
> http://www.outlookindia.com/news/article/UN-Adopts-Resolution-on-Bridging-Digital-Divide/852511
> 
> Outlook India:
> The resolution decided that the overall review will be concluded in December 2015 by a two-day General Assembly high-level meeting to be preceded by an inter-governmental preparatory process that also takes into account inputs from all relevant stakeholders of WSIS. The intergovernmental negotiation process would begin in June 2015 and lead to an inter-governmentally agreed outcome document for adoption at the UNGA meeting. The process retains the ownership of the preparatory meetings and the final outcome document with member states alone. Mukerji said the resolution ensures that leaders, "at the highest possible level" will meet at the high-level plenary meeting in December next year to adopt the outcome of the intergovernmental negotiations.
> 
> Wolfgang:
> One of the big achievements in the WSIS process was that civil society got a voice in the process. A Milestone was the CS WSIS Declaratzion from December 2003 which was handed over to the president of the first summit, WSIS 1. It became an official document. The Tunis Agenda confirmed and enhanced the role of civil society. As you can see from the text above, ten years later this process is back in the hands of "governments only". The final outcome document will be with member states only by taking into account inputs from all relevant stakeholders (which sounds like a joke with the experiences of a enhanced communicartion and cooperation over the last ten years, including the UNCSTD WGs. Should civil society write a letter to UN Secretary General Ban Kin Moon?
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
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> [ ATT00001.png (32.5 Ko) ]
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From gurstein at gmail.com  Mon Aug  4 11:32:11 2014
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 08:32:11 -0700
Subject: [governance] WSIS 10+
In-Reply-To: <24974541.14908.1407165462814.JavaMail.www@wwinf1p12>
References: <24974541.14908.1407165462814.JavaMail.www@wwinf1p12>
Message-ID: <0df701cfaff9$455bb7f0$d01327d0$@gmail.com>

It should also be noted that the CS participation in WSIS was a largely self (or rather funder) selected process and the majority of those at the grassroots using the Internet in support of grassroots development (and those who were supporting these developments) were not represented or rather had little if any voice in the discussions.

 

The fact that CS in this area has over time become even more exclusive and exclusionary means that now CS has no real constituency to draw on in support of whatever initiatives might be undertaken in response to this.

 

M

 

From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Jean-Louis FULLSACK
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2014 8:18 AM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; KleinwächterWolfgang; DanielKalchev
Subject: re: [governance] WSIS 10+

 

Dear all

 

Wolfgang wrote :

> One of the big achievements in the WSIS process was that civil society got a voice in the process. A Milestone was the CS WSIS Declaratzion from December 2003 which was handed over to the president of the first summit, WSIS 1.>

 

This enthousiastic view on the civil society's voice at WSIS doesn't reflect the reality.


First, the "milestone" CS WSIS Declaration was in fact a document resulting from a schism in the "WSIS multistakeholder community", precisely decided by the CS Plenary during PrepCom 3b because the very voice of CS wasn't sufficiently taken in account during the PrepCom process. Remember Adama Samassekou's desperate but vain efforts to convince the CS Plenary to join the official Geneva Declaration !

Second, the CS Declaration, despite the assertion of the WSIS Secretariate, isn't considered as an official WSIS outcome document. The latter are the WSIS Declaration of Principles and the Geneva Action Plan, as well as the Tunis Commitment and the Tunis Agenda for the Information Society (see http://www.itu.int/wsis/outcome/booklet/index-fr.html ). 

 

In a nutshell : If "CS got a voice", it's expression was at best considered to be pseudo-official ! This is pure WSIS/ITU multistakeholderism !

 

Best regards

 

Jean-Louis Fullsack

  

  

 

 

> Message du 04/08/14 10:47
> De : ""Kleinwächter, Wolfgang"" <wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
> A : governance at lists.igcaucus.org, governance at lists.igcaucus.org, "Daniel Kalchev" <daniel at digsys.bg>
> Copie à : 
> Objet : [governance] WSIS 10+
> 
> http://www.outlookindia.com/news/article/UN-Adopts-Resolution-on-Bridging-Digital-Divide/852511
> 
> Outlook India:
> The resolution decided that the overall review will be concluded in December 2015 by a two-day General Assembly high-level meeting to be preceded by an inter-governmental preparatory process that also takes into account inputs from all relevant stakeholders of WSIS. The intergovernmental negotiation process would begin in June 2015 and lead to an inter-governmentally agreed outcome document for adoption at the UNGA meeting. The process retains the ownership of the preparatory meetings and the final outcome document with member states alone. Mukerji said the resolution ensures that leaders, "at the highest possible level" will meet at the high-level plenary meeting in December next year to adopt the outcome of the intergovernmental negotiations.
> 
> Wolfgang:
> One of the big achievements in the WSIS process was that civil society got a voice in the process. A Milestone was the CS WSIS Declaratzion from December 2003 which was handed over to the president of the first summit, WSIS 1. It became an official document. The Tunis Agenda confirmed and enhanced the role of civil society. As you can see from the text above, ten years later this process is back in the hands of "governments only". The final outcome document will be with member states only by taking into account inputs from all relevant stakeholders (which sounds like a joke with the experiences of a enhanced communicartion and cooperation over the last ten years, including the UNCSTD WGs. Should civil society write a letter to UN Secretary General Ban Kin Moon?
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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> [ ATT00001.png (32.5 Ko) ]

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From caribe at entropia.blog.br  Mon Aug  4 12:00:28 2014
From: caribe at entropia.blog.br (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=E3o_Carlos_Rebello_Carib=E9?=)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 13:00:28 -0300
Subject: [governance] Killing the net neutral Internet
In-Reply-To: <53DC7C89.70904@itforchange.net>
References: <53DC7C89.70904@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <2830CEE3-5466-4B89-8167-58083EA5B89C@entropia.blog.br>

Completely agree with you Parminder, I've read this yesterday night and wake this morning spreading my worries to the lists, groups and social networks. This project is perverse, follow my considerations:

Dear All,  when someones are excited about the new Facebook philanthropic project Internet.org ( http://internet.org ) that is around any mobile application that allow poor peoples from third world can access for free some selected web sites, I'm just worried about that.

For example, they not ashamed to say the app can provide free access to "free basic services" on the Internet, referring to me in my imagination something like cable TV package or private networks like AOL in the past.

I wary about the generosity of Facebook, they could create a system of curation, providing a false digital inclusion, but keeping  track of the information that users can receive. It's easy to imagine that suspect agreements that are made between Facebook, the Telecom companies and the "basic service". Just made a quick imagination exercise and you will see in the future a lot of online services aggressing to the project, and what Internet this new "digitally included citizens" will know. So this is dangerous to the net neutrality and the freedom of choice, and for diversity and the cognitive knowledge building of the Internet.

We are experiencing some of that at Brazil with "free" mobile Facebook access and counting this as new digital included citizen, but there wasn't any increase on the culture and education of then, who just know to use Facebook, but not the Internet. The price is one "digital included" citizen that continue to be an digital illiterate.

The other face of this threat are running now at Chile, where the Telecoms company are saying that the net net neutrality is the reason of Chile "killed" the free access to Wikipedia and Facebook.


Em 02/08/2014, às 02:52, parminder escreveu:

> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/facebook/11005228/Facebook-brings-free-web-access-to-Africa-with-Internet.org-app.html
> 
> One can think of the immediate benefit, or the soon to come disaster of a fully controlled Internet. Take your choice!
> 
> parminder 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
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--
João Carlos R. Caribé
Consultor 
Skype joaocaribe
(021) 9 8761 1967

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From jc.nothias at theglobaljournal.net  Mon Aug  4 12:09:29 2014
From: jc.nothias at theglobaljournal.net (Jean-Christophe NOTHIAS I The Global Journal)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 18:09:29 +0200
Subject: [governance] WSIS 10+
In-Reply-To: <53DFA103.2090808@digsys.bg>
References: <53B928BE.3040603@itforchange.net> <53B93A3B.6090707@ITforChange.net> <53DB56F7.3070702@digsys.bg> <a8ce3c8ab2dc4efc8c97c73b09608e69@EX13-MBX-07.ad.syr.edu> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A801642514@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <4D8B9C3E-9136-4DE7-A295-57C742166B11@theglobaljournal.net> <53DFA103.2090808@digsys.bg>
Message-ID: <9B82DF7F-8579-43E6-BFCC-62A2C3764EDB@theglobaljournal.net>

Thanks Daniel, for your point about Democracy. We all agree that Democracy is a fragile world that can easily be twisted or lost. It is rather difficult to admit that such a failure or loss can be the result of the wrong acting by a dominating player, presumably not a rogue state.

Applied to mass surveillance, it seems indeed a good idea to put Democracy in practice: a well-balanced (and checked) democratic system allows separation of powers (1), and counter-power (2) within its own governing system. I am glad to act as a responsible citizen, as you suggest, and bring my voice to the protesting ones, but that still sounds a bit naive without the two previous settings. So it seems to me that the surveillance planet is not a flat one where all countries show the same surveillance power and desire. So maybe we should not close our eyes so to pass on from on secret to another, concluding that all secret services are equal. I don't think secret services are supposed to spy simply every citizen on this planet. That was the Stasi dream, or the Stalinist bureaucratic terror. In Democracy, where trust and willingness to act together are fundamental assets, this is a great loss of taxpayer money. So, please allow me to disagree: the US have to prove better, and not worse. See their whistleblower new legal vision: a whistleblower should be allowed to speak to its boss! This is presented as a progress, when it is just the opposite.

As Internet governance cannot be contained within the boundaries of one single country, neither be managed by one single country, how do we deal with a democratic approach taking into account the two previous points (1) and (2)?

Publicity is a good starting point at citizen level. But CS might push a little further its thinking and influence to offer governance innovation to politicians if they have some trouble to understand what citizens are concerned about, and not just lobbyists or PR consultants are telling them over a nice gastronomic table.

Another good point for a good start would be to call a cat a cat: I know only one country, moreover a self-proclaimed champion of freedom of speech that has the technical power to organize and handle mass surveillance, thanks to its dominant private sector champions. So even though we can agree on the idea not to play the antagonistic game, we still have to agree on definitions and meanings, we still need to have acceptance for diversity of views and opinions. We also have to accept to speak truth to power: there was no power grab attempt from ITU in December 2012, neither before, nor after. And there is still not. The current asymmetry cannot be but condemned. And we need more US voices to honestly admit that things have to change. 

All of that means democracy. To cherish it means to use it.

JC


Le 4 août 2014 à 17:04, Daniel Kalchev a écrit :

> 
> On 04.08.14 12:18, Jean-Christophe NOTHIAS I The Global Journal wrote:
>> Nota Bene: Wolfgang, I hope you noticed that I did not mention the troubling fact that the US surveillance of all Internet users browsing and emailing over the beautiful unified, un-fragmented Internet under one single root-zone management, and of all phone users, including president Rousseff, Chancellor Merkel, European diplomats, BRICS diplomats, all diplomats, politicians, citizens, that were hostage of the US surveillance paranoia and infernalia. We all pay for that.
> 
> Yes, we do all pay for that.
> 
> But then, what can we do to resolve this situation? The US secret services agencies will continue to do all of this, no matter what. This is why they exist. Most of them run on military style management, and obeying orders is mandatory there. The same can be said about the secret services of any other country. Or any special interests group.
> 
> My experience dealing with this kind of 'operations' is that your working route is publicity. Talk about it. Don't let them do it in secret. Cops hate being exposed. Let Internet users become aware what is going on. Don't waste your time politicizing it, in the sense of "those bad XYZ spying on us good ABC", because this is nonsense (and not true in general). If Internet users don't mind being subject of surveillance, who are we to force them?
> 
> If Internet users are so upset about this situation, they as individuals having (whatever - voting, buying, etc) power will act up and fix it.
> 
> Isn't this how democracy should function? :-)
> 
> Daniel
> 
> 
>> 
>> So yes let's the CS write to USG and its digital champions. Let's start to balance our role.
>> 
>> That is something everyone has obviously in mind when considering the fact that governments are no longer to be seen out of the IG game. One good reason to have CS coming strong into the democratic multistakeholder model, JNC and others are advocating.
>> 
>> JC
>> 
>> Le 4 août 2014 à 10:46, Kleinwächter, Wolfgang a écrit :
>> 
>>> http://www.outlookindia.com/news/article/UN-Adopts-Resolution-on-Bridging-Digital-Divide/852511
>>> 
>>> Outlook India:
>>> The resolution decided that the overall review will be concluded in December 2015 by a two-day General Assembly high-level meeting to be preceded by an inter-governmental preparatory process that also takes into account inputs from all relevant stakeholders of WSIS.  The intergovernmental negotiation process would begin in June 2015 and lead to an inter-governmentally agreed outcome document for adoption at the UNGA meeting. The process retains the ownership of the preparatory meetings and the final outcome document with member states alone. Mukerji said the resolution ensures that leaders, "at the highest possible level" will meet at the high-level plenary meeting in December next year to adopt the outcome of the intergovernmental negotiations.
>>> 
>>> Wolfgang:
>>> One of the big achievements in the WSIS process was that civil society got a voice in the process. A Milestone was the CS WSIS Declaratzion from December 2003 which was handed over to the president of the first summit, WSIS 1. It became an official document. The Tunis Agenda confirmed and enhanced the role of civil society. As you can see from the text above, ten years later this process is back in the hands of "governments only". The final outcome document will be with member states only by taking into account inputs from all relevant stakeholders (which sounds like a joke with the experiences of a enhanced communicartion and cooperation over the last ten years, including the UNCSTD WGs. Should civil society write a letter to UN Secretary General Ban Kin Moon?
>>> <ATT00001.png>____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>> 
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>> 
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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From iza at anr.org  Tue Aug  5 03:14:33 2014
From: iza at anr.org (Izumi AIZU)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2014 16:14:33 +0900
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [IGFmaglist] Invitation to High Level Leaders
 Meeting on 1 September 2014
In-Reply-To: <1090E9E9E3CD4143B984C488E07FDABC0ABBBA4E@EXCSRV2.tk.local>
References: <1090E9E9E3CD4143B984C488E07FDABC0ABBBA4E@EXCSRV2.tk.local>
Message-ID: <CA+YNoKiMN5wpfeve2kCTr=mMqO9g8vjTJQyQc+hBS0p2xbCUgQ@mail.gmail.com>

Being a Civil Society MAG member, I just received the following invitation
to High Level Leaders Meeting on Sep. 1

To be honest, I have some ambiguous feeling about this. Having looked at
the list of invited speakers, I see very few Civil Society
people/organizations. There is no good balance.

Not knowing how the selection made, maybe some well-respected CS people
might have declined to be there, with schedule conflict with other events,
or with some reservation etc.
I honestly don't know.

Just sitting there and listening to all speeches don't make sense, on the
one hand.
On the other, I don't want to see this meeting with much fewer participants
from the civil society.

Just sharing my feeling and thought now.

Will decide after hearing from you guys ;-).

many thanks,

izumi



---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Aysel KANDEMİR <akandemir at btk.gov.tr>
Date: 2014-08-04 23:21 GMT+09:00
Subject: [IGFmaglist] Invitation to High Level Leaders Meeting on 1
September 2014
To: "Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org" <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>
Cc: Ahmet ÇAVUŞOĞLU <acavusoglu at btk.gov.tr>

 Dear MAG members,

Enclosed is the invitation letter of Dr. Tayfun ACARER, Chairman of the
Board and President of ICTA to the “High Level Leaders Meeting” to be held
on 1 September 2014 prior to IGF 2014. Draft programme of High Level
Leaders Meeting is enclosed to this letter. Indeed, you may already
received invitation letter prepared for your name already. To ensure it is
well received by all MAG members, we are also sending the invitation
through this e-mail.

We would be very pleased with your attendance at the High Level Leaders
Meeting.



You are kindly requested to furnish us with your confirmation of
participation by 11 August 2014.



Best regards,



Aysel Kandemir

ICTA, Turkey



_______________________________________________
Igfmaglist mailing list
Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org
http://mail.intgovforum.org/mailman/listinfo/igfmaglist_intgovforum.org
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From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com  Tue Aug  5 03:27:10 2014
From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2014 19:27:10 +1200
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [IGFmaglist] Invitation to High Level Leaders
 Meeting on 1 September 2014
In-Reply-To: <CA+YNoKiMN5wpfeve2kCTr=mMqO9g8vjTJQyQc+hBS0p2xbCUgQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1090E9E9E3CD4143B984C488E07FDABC0ABBBA4E@EXCSRV2.tk.local>
	<CA+YNoKiMN5wpfeve2kCTr=mMqO9g8vjTJQyQc+hBS0p2xbCUgQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJwbTiBCsTw3Ryi3mXqMviQuP2XsrkDPxri4agTeZD2fqZ9h_A@mail.gmail.com>

Precisely because there are very few CS people there is the reason you need
to be there and report back on developments.

Let us know and be our eyes and ears.

Many thanks,
Sala


On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 7:14 PM, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:

> Being a Civil Society MAG member, I just received the following invitation
> to High Level Leaders Meeting on Sep. 1
>
> To be honest, I have some ambiguous feeling about this. Having looked at
> the list of invited speakers, I see very few Civil Society
> people/organizations. There is no good balance.
>
> Not knowing how the selection made, maybe some well-respected CS people
> might have declined to be there, with schedule conflict with other events,
> or with some reservation etc.
> I honestly don't know.
>
> Just sitting there and listening to all speeches don't make sense, on the
> one hand.
> On the other, I don't want to see this meeting with much fewer
> participants from the civil society.
>
> Just sharing my feeling and thought now.
>
> Will decide after hearing from you guys ;-).
>
> many thanks,
>
> izumi
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Aysel KANDEMİR <akandemir at btk.gov.tr>
> Date: 2014-08-04 23:21 GMT+09:00
> Subject: [IGFmaglist] Invitation to High Level Leaders Meeting on 1
> September 2014
> To: "Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org" <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>
> Cc: Ahmet ÇAVUŞOĞLU <acavusoglu at btk.gov.tr>
>
>  Dear MAG members,
>
> Enclosed is the invitation letter of Dr. Tayfun ACARER, Chairman of the
> Board and President of ICTA to the “High Level Leaders Meeting” to be held
> on 1 September 2014 prior to IGF 2014. Draft programme of High Level
> Leaders Meeting is enclosed to this letter. Indeed, you may already
> received invitation letter prepared for your name already. To ensure it is
> well received by all MAG members, we are also sending the invitation
> through this e-mail.
>
> We would be very pleased with your attendance at the High Level Leaders
> Meeting.
>
>
>
> You are kindly requested to furnish us with your confirmation of
> participation by 11 August 2014.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Aysel Kandemir
>
> ICTA, Turkey
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Igfmaglist mailing list
> Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org
> http://mail.intgovforum.org/mailman/listinfo/igfmaglist_intgovforum.org
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
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From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com  Tue Aug  5 06:08:49 2014
From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2014 22:08:49 +1200
Subject: [governance] Digital Divide [Asia Pacific Regional Internet
 Governance Forum]
Message-ID: <CAJwbTiDNnxcA15UVLuJTOjVoV-FDrUBxCBkuTOxpGzRKa7TsCQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear All,

You are all invited to participate in a Workshop on the Digital Divide
which will take place in New Delhi, India at the Asia Pacific Regional
Internet Governance Forum tomorrow. Remote streaming and participation is
available. It will feature a video showcasing perspectives from Asia
Pacific from Regulators in Vanuatu, Immediate Past President of the
Australian Computer Society and some other surprise guests who will give
their take on the Digital Divide.



Remote Participation Link

Video <http://www.webcastlive.in/aprigf/tapas2/> / Text
<http://www.streamtext.net/player?event=CFI-RPC2> / Adobe Connect
<https://meet49852487.adobeconnect.com/tapas2/>



Venue

Tapa Room 2

See Agenda and other Sessions

http://2014.rigf.asia/agenda/

Digital Divide in South East Asia and the Pacific Workshop









http://2014.rigf.asia/agenda/workshop-proposals/workshop-proposal-14/

Date

Wednesday, 6th August, 2014

Time:



10:00am-12:30 New Delhi Time

4:30pm-6:00pm Fiji, Tuvalu, NZ Time UTC +12

5:30pm-7:00pm Samoa Time

3:30pm-5:00pm Vanuatu Time

12:30pm-3:00pm Indonesia, Malaysia, Queensland AU Time

11:30am-2:00pm Cambodia Time

9:30pm-12:00am Long Beach, California

With every best wish,
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro
*[South Computer Society]*
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From ias_pk at yahoo.com  Tue Aug  5 09:18:38 2014
From: ias_pk at yahoo.com (Imran Ahmed Shah)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2014 06:18:38 -0700
Subject: [governance] Workshop at APrIGF 2014 on Governance for the Internet
 of Kids, Teenagers and Youngsters
In-Reply-To: <CAJwbTiDNnxcA15UVLuJTOjVoV-FDrUBxCBkuTOxpGzRKa7TsCQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJwbTiDNnxcA15UVLuJTOjVoV-FDrUBxCBkuTOxpGzRKa7TsCQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1407244718.16629.YahooMailNeo@web125103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Dear
All,
I would like to invite you to participate
on "Governance for the
Internet of Kids, Teenagers and Youngsters", which is being
held tomorrow, 6th August 2014 at 10:30am-12:00 (New Delhi Time), in New
Delhi, India at the Asia Pacific Regional Internet Governance Forum 2014. 
Those who are attending the APrIGF 2014
Forum are invited in person other may join us remotely. 
Remote Participation
Links:Video / Text / Adobe Connect

Further detail is available on the following URLs:
APrIGF 2014 Website:http://2014.rigf.asia/
APrIGF 2014 Agenda:http://2014.rigf.asia/agenda/

Our workshop at APrIGF:http://2014.rigf.asia/agenda/workshop-proposals/workshop-proposal-10/

Thanking you and Best Regards

Imran Ahmed Shah
Founder
& Executive Member
Linguistic Internet Council,
Urdu Internet Society
Internet Governance Forum of
Pakistan
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From jaryn56 at gmail.com  Tue Aug  5 10:59:20 2014
From: jaryn56 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?Sm9zw6kgRsOpbGl4IEFyaWFzIFluY2hl?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2014 09:59:20 -0500
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [IGFmaglist] Invitation to High Level Leaders
 Meeting on 1 September 2014
In-Reply-To: <CAJwbTiBCsTw3Ryi3mXqMviQuP2XsrkDPxri4agTeZD2fqZ9h_A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1090E9E9E3CD4143B984C488E07FDABC0ABBBA4E@EXCSRV2.tk.local>
 <CA+YNoKiMN5wpfeve2kCTr=mMqO9g8vjTJQyQc+hBS0p2xbCUgQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAJwbTiBCsTw3Ryi3mXqMviQuP2XsrkDPxri4agTeZD2fqZ9h_A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAYFVLvmWU-d2Az_9_gNWrqmVo4RjZc4EMZJXGSQf_dw2bN=TA@mail.gmail.com>

Estoy de acuerdo con Salanieta...



*Cordialmente:         José Félix Arias Ynche*
*                        Investigador Social Para El Desarrollo*


2014-08-05 2:27 GMT-05:00 Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <
salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com>:

> Precisely because there are very few CS people there is the reason you
> need to be there and report back on developments.
>
> Let us know and be our eyes and ears.
>
> Many thanks,
> Sala
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 7:14 PM, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:
>
>> Being a Civil Society MAG member, I just received the following
>> invitation to High Level Leaders Meeting on Sep. 1
>>
>> To be honest, I have some ambiguous feeling about this. Having looked at
>> the list of invited speakers, I see very few Civil Society
>> people/organizations. There is no good balance.
>>
>> Not knowing how the selection made, maybe some well-respected CS people
>> might have declined to be there, with schedule conflict with other events,
>> or with some reservation etc.
>> I honestly don't know.
>>
>> Just sitting there and listening to all speeches don't make sense, on the
>> one hand.
>> On the other, I don't want to see this meeting with much fewer
>> participants from the civil society.
>>
>> Just sharing my feeling and thought now.
>>
>> Will decide after hearing from you guys ;-).
>>
>> many thanks,
>>
>> izumi
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Aysel KANDEMİR <akandemir at btk.gov.tr>
>> Date: 2014-08-04 23:21 GMT+09:00
>> Subject: [IGFmaglist] Invitation to High Level Leaders Meeting on 1
>> September 2014
>> To: "Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org" <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>
>> Cc: Ahmet ÇAVUŞOĞLU <acavusoglu at btk.gov.tr>
>>
>>  Dear MAG members,
>>
>> Enclosed is the invitation letter of Dr. Tayfun ACARER, Chairman of the
>> Board and President of ICTA to the “High Level Leaders Meeting” to be held
>> on 1 September 2014 prior to IGF 2014. Draft programme of High Level
>> Leaders Meeting is enclosed to this letter. Indeed, you may already
>> received invitation letter prepared for your name already. To ensure it is
>> well received by all MAG members, we are also sending the invitation
>> through this e-mail.
>>
>> We would be very pleased with your attendance at the High Level Leaders
>> Meeting.
>>
>>
>>
>> You are kindly requested to furnish us with your confirmation of
>> participation by 11 August 2014.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Aysel Kandemir
>>
>> ICTA, Turkey
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Igfmaglist mailing list
>> Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org
>> http://mail.intgovforum.org/mailman/listinfo/igfmaglist_intgovforum.org
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
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From nnenna75 at gmail.com  Tue Aug  5 11:31:20 2014
From: nnenna75 at gmail.com (Nnenna Nwakanma)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2014 15:31:20 +0000
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [IGFmaglist] Invitation to High Level Leaders
 Meeting on 1 September 2014
In-Reply-To: <CAAYFVLvmWU-d2Az_9_gNWrqmVo4RjZc4EMZJXGSQf_dw2bN=TA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1090E9E9E3CD4143B984C488E07FDABC0ABBBA4E@EXCSRV2.tk.local>
 <CA+YNoKiMN5wpfeve2kCTr=mMqO9g8vjTJQyQc+hBS0p2xbCUgQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJwbTiBCsTw3Ryi3mXqMviQuP2XsrkDPxri4agTeZD2fqZ9h_A@mail.gmail.com> <CAAYFVLvmWU-d2Az_9_gNWrqmVo4RjZc4EMZJXGSQf_dw2bN=TA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADFgh13P8v3aW2g4UUASM8QZaOtfjtrPyx8XbyL-6F-ntE5Jog@mail.gmail.com>

Hi people

 I have opened a pad here for CS folks to jot down our ideas. I have also
suggested that we may have a quick face2face around the BB-organised
meeting to prep further.  By then, we would have a better handle..

Pad is on: http://pad.bestbits.net/Istanbul_HLM

N


On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 2:59 PM, José Félix Arias Ynche <jaryn56 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Estoy de acuerdo con Salanieta...
>
>
>
> *Cordialmente:         José Félix Arias Ynche*
> *                        Investigador Social Para El Desarrollo*
>
>
> 2014-08-05 2:27 GMT-05:00 Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <
> salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com>:
>
> Precisely because there are very few CS people there is the reason you
>> need to be there and report back on developments.
>>
>> Let us know and be our eyes and ears.
>>
>> Many thanks,
>> Sala
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 7:14 PM, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Being a Civil Society MAG member, I just received the following
>>> invitation to High Level Leaders Meeting on Sep. 1
>>>
>>> To be honest, I have some ambiguous feeling about this. Having looked at
>>> the list of invited speakers, I see very few Civil Society
>>> people/organizations. There is no good balance.
>>>
>>> Not knowing how the selection made, maybe some well-respected CS people
>>> might have declined to be there, with schedule conflict with other events,
>>> or with some reservation etc.
>>> I honestly don't know.
>>>
>>> Just sitting there and listening to all speeches don't make sense, on
>>> the one hand.
>>> On the other, I don't want to see this meeting with much fewer
>>> participants from the civil society.
>>>
>>> Just sharing my feeling and thought now.
>>>
>>> Will decide after hearing from you guys ;-).
>>>
>>> many thanks,
>>>
>>> izumi
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Aysel KANDEMİR <akandemir at btk.gov.tr>
>>> Date: 2014-08-04 23:21 GMT+09:00
>>> Subject: [IGFmaglist] Invitation to High Level Leaders Meeting on 1
>>> September 2014
>>> To: "Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org" <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>
>>> Cc: Ahmet ÇAVUŞOĞLU <acavusoglu at btk.gov.tr>
>>>
>>>  Dear MAG members,
>>>
>>> Enclosed is the invitation letter of Dr. Tayfun ACARER, Chairman of the
>>> Board and President of ICTA to the “High Level Leaders Meeting” to be held
>>> on 1 September 2014 prior to IGF 2014. Draft programme of High Level
>>> Leaders Meeting is enclosed to this letter. Indeed, you may already
>>> received invitation letter prepared for your name already. To ensure it is
>>> well received by all MAG members, we are also sending the invitation
>>> through this e-mail.
>>>
>>> We would be very pleased with your attendance at the High Level Leaders
>>> Meeting.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You are kindly requested to furnish us with your confirmation of
>>> participation by 11 August 2014.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Aysel Kandemir
>>>
>>> ICTA, Turkey
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Igfmaglist mailing list
>>> Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org
>>> http://mail.intgovforum.org/mailman/listinfo/igfmaglist_intgovforum.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
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>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
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>
>
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From williams.deirdre at gmail.com  Tue Aug  5 13:44:56 2014
From: williams.deirdre at gmail.com (Deirdre Williams)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2014 13:44:56 -0400
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [IGFmaglist] Invitation to High Level Leaders
 Meeting on 1 September 2014
In-Reply-To: <CADFgh13P8v3aW2g4UUASM8QZaOtfjtrPyx8XbyL-6F-ntE5Jog@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1090E9E9E3CD4143B984C488E07FDABC0ABBBA4E@EXCSRV2.tk.local>
	<CA+YNoKiMN5wpfeve2kCTr=mMqO9g8vjTJQyQc+hBS0p2xbCUgQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJwbTiBCsTw3Ryi3mXqMviQuP2XsrkDPxri4agTeZD2fqZ9h_A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAYFVLvmWU-d2Az_9_gNWrqmVo4RjZc4EMZJXGSQf_dw2bN=TA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADFgh13P8v3aW2g4UUASM8QZaOtfjtrPyx8XbyL-6F-ntE5Jog@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMz5XN7OMfwXcucBY1Jjha-b4Txzd90y9KVyUvM_38WO-N6_qQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Nnenna,
Added my name to the list.
At airport. Will be in touch later or tomorrow
De
On 5 Aug 2014 11:32, "Nnenna Nwakanma" <nnenna75 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi people
>
>  I have opened a pad here for CS folks to jot down our ideas. I have also
> suggested that we may have a quick face2face around the BB-organised
> meeting to prep further.  By then, we would have a better handle..
>
> Pad is on: http://pad.bestbits.net/Istanbul_HLM
>
> N
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 2:59 PM, José Félix Arias Ynche <jaryn56 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Estoy de acuerdo con Salanieta...
>>
>>
>>
>> *Cordialmente:         José Félix Arias Ynche*
>> *                        Investigador Social Para El Desarrollo*
>>
>>
>> 2014-08-05 2:27 GMT-05:00 Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <
>> salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com>:
>>
>> Precisely because there are very few CS people there is the reason you
>>> need to be there and report back on developments.
>>>
>>> Let us know and be our eyes and ears.
>>>
>>> Many thanks,
>>> Sala
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 7:14 PM, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Being a Civil Society MAG member, I just received the following
>>>> invitation to High Level Leaders Meeting on Sep. 1
>>>>
>>>> To be honest, I have some ambiguous feeling about this. Having looked
>>>> at the list of invited speakers, I see very few Civil Society
>>>> people/organizations. There is no good balance.
>>>>
>>>> Not knowing how the selection made, maybe some well-respected CS people
>>>> might have declined to be there, with schedule conflict with other events,
>>>> or with some reservation etc.
>>>> I honestly don't know.
>>>>
>>>> Just sitting there and listening to all speeches don't make sense, on
>>>> the one hand.
>>>> On the other, I don't want to see this meeting with much fewer
>>>> participants from the civil society.
>>>>
>>>> Just sharing my feeling and thought now.
>>>>
>>>> Will decide after hearing from you guys ;-).
>>>>
>>>> many thanks,
>>>>
>>>> izumi
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>> From: Aysel KANDEMİR <akandemir at btk.gov.tr>
>>>> Date: 2014-08-04 23:21 GMT+09:00
>>>> Subject: [IGFmaglist] Invitation to High Level Leaders Meeting on 1
>>>> September 2014
>>>> To: "Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org" <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>
>>>> Cc: Ahmet ÇAVUŞOĞLU <acavusoglu at btk.gov.tr>
>>>>
>>>>  Dear MAG members,
>>>>
>>>> Enclosed is the invitation letter of Dr. Tayfun ACARER, Chairman of the
>>>> Board and President of ICTA to the “High Level Leaders Meeting” to be held
>>>> on 1 September 2014 prior to IGF 2014. Draft programme of High Level
>>>> Leaders Meeting is enclosed to this letter. Indeed, you may already
>>>> received invitation letter prepared for your name already. To ensure it is
>>>> well received by all MAG members, we are also sending the invitation
>>>> through this e-mail.
>>>>
>>>> We would be very pleased with your attendance at the High Level Leaders
>>>> Meeting.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You are kindly requested to furnish us with your confirmation of
>>>> participation by 11 August 2014.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Aysel Kandemir
>>>>
>>>> ICTA, Turkey
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Igfmaglist mailing list
>>>> Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org
>>>> http://mail.intgovforum.org/mailman/listinfo/igfmaglist_intgovforum.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>>
>>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>>
>>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
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>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
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>
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From anja at internetdemocracy.in  Tue Aug  5 14:52:01 2014
From: anja at internetdemocracy.in (Anja Kovacs)
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2014 00:22:01 +0530
Subject: [governance] WSIS 10+
In-Reply-To: <9B82DF7F-8579-43E6-BFCC-62A2C3764EDB@theglobaljournal.net>
References: <53B928BE.3040603@itforchange.net>
	<53B93A3B.6090707@ITforChange.net>
	<53DB56F7.3070702@digsys.bg>
	<a8ce3c8ab2dc4efc8c97c73b09608e69@EX13-MBX-07.ad.syr.edu>
	<2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A801642514@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
	<4D8B9C3E-9136-4DE7-A295-57C742166B11@theglobaljournal.net>
	<53DFA103.2090808@digsys.bg>
	<9B82DF7F-8579-43E6-BFCC-62A2C3764EDB@theglobaljournal.net>
Message-ID: <CAJqNAHAvqz8ju=MFiFeQrZiFm_0chcNU8QG1ZxVMtt5SHKXptA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,

For those who are interested, there is a plenary session on "Developing the
information society beyond 2015: lessons from the WSIS+10 Review and
NETmundial", organised by the Internet Democracy Project, tomorrow, 6
August, at 1 pm IST at the APrIGF. I have pasted the full details of the
plenary below this message.

Remote participation should be available, (see http://2014.rigf.asia/remote/)
though I heard that unfortunately today there were quite a few problems
with it.

And +1 to the proposals to write a letter to the UN Secretary General, as
well as to the USG and, I would propose, to Fadi Chehade, who seems to have
become the undisputed cheerleader of the USG position now that the latter
in many ways stands publicly discredited when it comes to "Internet
freedom" and multistakeholderism.

As for Parminder's question "Did we ever ask for the WSIS model (of course
with evolutionary improvements) for WSIS plus 10 review. No, no one did" -
I thought that I share again this letter that some of us (including some
who have been following the WSIS+10 Review quite closely) wrote to the
facilitators of the governmental negotiation processes in February. I think
it quite clearly disproves the points that Parminder was making in his
message above.

http://internetdemocracy.in/2014/02/letter-to-co-facilitators-calling-for-civil-society-input-into-negotiations-on-wsis10-modalities/

Best regards,
Anja

*Title:* "*Developing the information society beyond 2015: lessons from the
WSIS+10 Review and NETmundial*"

Format: Panel discussion

Invited panelists:

Mr. Adam Peake - GLOCOM
Dr. Anja Kovacs - Internet Democracy Project
Dr. Govind - NIXI
Mr. Hardeep Singh Puri - Bharatiya Janata Party and formerly Government of
India
Mr. Paul Wilson - APNIC
Mr. Rajnesh Singh - ISOC

Moderator: Prof. Ang Peng Hwa - Nanyan Technological University, Singapore

Abstract:

In 2015 the WSIS is up for an overall review. Though strictly speaking the
WSIS was supposed to be about ICTs and development, the Internet governance
issues that are contained in it have obtained a growing role. In fact,
during the multistakeholder WSIS+10 MPP meetings, the debate on many more
'hard core' development issues often seemed to be held hostage to the IG
debate, in that there was a reluctance to agree on new language for fear of
the possible wider implications of such language.

The ICTs for development agenda continues, however, to be of great
importance for many countries in our region. This then raises the question
of how the development agenda contained in the WSIS can be revitalised.
What shape do we want the WSIS agenda and process to take beyond 2015? What
shape do the overall review in 2015 and its preparatory processes need to
take for this to be possible? What lessons can we learn from both the
content and form of discussions at the WSIS+10 MPP and the WGEC to take the
Internet governance debate forward in a way that serves the Asia-Pacific
region and ensures that the development debate can gain greater prominence
again? What role can and do efforts such as the NETmundial, but also
national Internet governance processes play in shaping this?

The session will reflect on our experiences of the past 11 years as part of
the WSIS process to move forward towards a better future, and include a
consideration of lessons learned from multistakeholder processes such as
the NETmundial, the MPP and the WGEC on how to best get the IG part of the
WSIS agenda unstuck.






On 4 August 2014 21:39, Jean-Christophe NOTHIAS I The Global Journal <
jc.nothias at theglobaljournal.net> wrote:

> Thanks Daniel, for your point about Democracy. We all agree that Democracy
> is a fragile world that can easily be twisted or lost. It is rather
> difficult to admit that such a failure or loss can be the result of the
> wrong acting by a dominating player, presumably not a rogue state.
>
> Applied to mass surveillance, it seems indeed a good idea to put Democracy
> in practice: a well-balanced (and checked) democratic system allows
> separation of powers (1), and counter-power (2) within its own governing
> system. I am glad to act as a responsible citizen, as you suggest, and
> bring my voice to the protesting ones, but that still sounds a bit naive
> without the two previous settings. So it seems to me that the surveillance
> planet is not a flat one where all countries show the same surveillance
> power and desire. So maybe we should not close our eyes so to pass on from
> on secret to another, concluding that all secret services are equal. I
> don't think secret services are supposed to spy simply every citizen on
> this planet. That was the Stasi dream, or the Stalinist bureaucratic
> terror. In Democracy, where trust and willingness to act together are
> fundamental assets, this is a great loss of taxpayer money. So, please
> allow me to disagree: the US have to prove better, and not worse. See their
> whistleblower new legal vision: a whistleblower should be allowed to speak
> to its boss! This is presented as a progress, when it is just the opposite.
>
> As Internet governance cannot be contained within the boundaries of one
> single country, neither be managed by one single country, how do we deal
> with a democratic approach taking into account the two previous points (1)
> and (2)?
>
> Publicity is a good starting point at citizen level. But CS might push a
> little further its thinking and influence to offer governance innovation to
> politicians if they have some trouble to understand what citizens are
> concerned about, and not just lobbyists or PR consultants are telling them
> over a nice gastronomic table.
>
> Another good point for a good start would be to call a cat a cat: I know
> only one country, moreover a self-proclaimed champion of freedom of speech
> that has the technical power to organize and handle mass surveillance,
> thanks to its dominant private sector champions. So even though we can
> agree on the idea not to play the antagonistic game, we still have to agree
> on definitions and meanings, we still need to have acceptance for diversity
> of views and opinions. We also have to accept to speak truth to power:
> there was no power grab attempt from ITU in December 2012, neither before,
> nor after. And there is still not. The current asymmetry cannot be but
> condemned. And we need more US voices to honestly admit that things have to
> change.
>
> All of that means democracy. To cherish it means to use it.
>
> JC
>
>
> Le 4 août 2014 à 17:04, Daniel Kalchev a écrit :
>
>
> On 04.08.14 12:18, Jean-Christophe NOTHIAS I The Global Journal wrote:
>
> Nota Bene: Wolfgang, I hope you noticed that I did not mention the
> troubling fact that the US surveillance of all Internet users browsing and
> emailing over the beautiful unified, un-fragmented Internet under one
> single root-zone management, and of all phone users, including president
> Rousseff, Chancellor Merkel, European diplomats, BRICS diplomats, all
> diplomats, politicians, citizens, that were hostage of the US surveillance
> paranoia and infernalia. We all pay for that.
>
>
> Yes, we do all pay for that.
>
> But then, what can we do to resolve this situation? The US secret services
> agencies will continue to do all of this, no matter what. This is why they
> exist. Most of them run on military style management, and obeying orders is
> mandatory there. The same can be said about the secret services of any
> other country. Or any special interests group.
>
> My experience dealing with this kind of 'operations' is that your working
> route is publicity. Talk about it. Don't let them do it in secret. Cops
> hate being exposed. Let Internet users become aware what is going on. Don't
> waste your time politicizing it, in the sense of "those bad XYZ spying on
> us good ABC", because this is nonsense (and not true in general). If
> Internet users don't mind being subject of surveillance, who are we to
> force them?
>
> If Internet users are so upset about this situation, they as individuals
> having (whatever - voting, buying, etc) power will act up and fix it.
>
> Isn't this how democracy should function? :-)
>
> Daniel
>
>
>
>  So yes let's the CS write to USG and its digital champions. Let's start
> to balance our role.
>
>  That is something everyone has obviously in mind when considering the
> fact that governments are no longer to be seen out of the IG game. One good
> reason to have CS coming strong into the democratic multistakeholder model,
> JNC and others are advocating.
>
>  JC
>
>  Le 4 août 2014 à 10:46, Kleinwächter, Wolfgang a écrit :
>
>
> http://www.outlookindia.com/news/article/UN-Adopts-Resolution-on-Bridging-Digital-Divide/852511
>
> Outlook India:
> The resolution decided that the overall review will be concluded in
> December 2015 by a two-day General Assembly high-level meeting to be
> preceded by an inter-governmental preparatory process that also takes into
> account inputs from all relevant stakeholders of WSIS.  The
> intergovernmental negotiation process would begin in June 2015 and lead to
> an inter-governmentally agreed outcome document for adoption at the UNGA
> meeting. The process retains the ownership of the preparatory meetings and
> the final outcome document with member states alone. Mukerji said the
> resolution ensures that leaders, "at the highest possible level" will meet
> at the high-level plenary meeting in December next year to adopt the
> outcome of the intergovernmental negotiations.
>
> Wolfgang:
> One of the big achievements in the WSIS process was that civil society got
> a voice in the process. A Milestone was the CS WSIS Declaratzion from
> December 2003 which was handed over to the president of the first summit,
> WSIS 1. It became an official document. The Tunis Agenda confirmed and
> enhanced the role of civil society. As you can see from the text above, ten
> years later this process is back in the hands of "governments only". The
> final outcome document will be with member states only by taking into
> account inputs from all relevant stakeholders (which sounds like a joke
> with the experiences of a enhanced communicartion and cooperation over the
> last ten years, including the UNCSTD WGs. Should civil society write a
> letter to UN Secretary General Ban Kin Moon?
> <ATT00001.png>____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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>
>
>
>  ____________________________________________________________
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> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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-- 
Dr. Anja Kovacs
The Internet Democracy Project

+91 9899028053 | @anjakovacs
www.internetdemocracy.in
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From remmyn at gmail.com  Tue Aug  5 17:14:49 2014
From: remmyn at gmail.com (Remmy Nweke)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2014 23:14:49 +0200
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [IGFmaglist] Invitation to High Level Leaders
 Meeting on 1 September 2014
In-Reply-To: <CAJwbTiBCsTw3Ryi3mXqMviQuP2XsrkDPxri4agTeZD2fqZ9h_A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1090E9E9E3CD4143B984C488E07FDABC0ABBBA4E@EXCSRV2.tk.local>
	<CA+YNoKiMN5wpfeve2kCTr=mMqO9g8vjTJQyQc+hBS0p2xbCUgQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJwbTiBCsTw3Ryi3mXqMviQuP2XsrkDPxri4agTeZD2fqZ9h_A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMc__opsxrVAawD9vJaVyMxG9sc6cU-gLTK8gWip+3Q7h7JA4w@mail.gmail.com>

I think Sala was right
Izumi, Kindly attend and be our eyes on he high-level session.
Remmy


On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 9:27 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <
salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote:

> Precisely because there are very few CS people there is the reason you
> need to be there and report back on developments.
>
> Let us know and be our eyes and ears.
>
> Many thanks,
> Sala
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 7:14 PM, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:
>
>> Being a Civil Society MAG member, I just received the following
>> invitation to High Level Leaders Meeting on Sep. 1
>>
>> To be honest, I have some ambiguous feeling about this. Having looked at
>> the list of invited speakers, I see very few Civil Society
>> people/organizations. There is no good balance.
>>
>> Not knowing how the selection made, maybe some well-respected CS people
>> might have declined to be there, with schedule conflict with other events,
>> or with some reservation etc.
>> I honestly don't know.
>>
>> Just sitting there and listening to all speeches don't make sense, on the
>> one hand.
>> On the other, I don't want to see this meeting with much fewer
>> participants from the civil society.
>>
>> Just sharing my feeling and thought now.
>>
>> Will decide after hearing from you guys ;-).
>>
>> many thanks,
>>
>> izumi
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Aysel KANDEMİR <akandemir at btk.gov.tr>
>> Date: 2014-08-04 23:21 GMT+09:00
>> Subject: [IGFmaglist] Invitation to High Level Leaders Meeting on 1
>> September 2014
>> To: "Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org" <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>
>> Cc: Ahmet ÇAVUŞOĞLU <acavusoglu at btk.gov.tr>
>>
>>  Dear MAG members,
>>
>> Enclosed is the invitation letter of Dr. Tayfun ACARER, Chairman of the
>> Board and President of ICTA to the “High Level Leaders Meeting” to be held
>> on 1 September 2014 prior to IGF 2014. Draft programme of High Level
>> Leaders Meeting is enclosed to this letter. Indeed, you may already
>> received invitation letter prepared for your name already. To ensure it is
>> well received by all MAG members, we are also sending the invitation
>> through this e-mail.
>>
>> We would be very pleased with your attendance at the High Level Leaders
>> Meeting.
>>
>>
>>
>> You are kindly requested to furnish us with your confirmation of
>> participation by 11 August 2014.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Aysel Kandemir
>>
>> ICTA, Turkey
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Igfmaglist mailing list
>> Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org
>> http://mail.intgovforum.org/mailman/listinfo/igfmaglist_intgovforum.org
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
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>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
____
REMMY NWEKE,
Lead Strategist/Group Executive Editor,
DigitalSENSE Africa Media Ltd
(publishers of) DigitalSENSE Business News;
ITREALMS, NaijaAgroNet
(Multiple-award winning medium)
Published by: DigitalSENSE Africa Media Ltd
Block F1, Shop 133 Moyosore Aboderin Plaza
Bolade Junction, Oshodi-Lagos
M: 234-8033592762, 8023122558, 8051000475,
T: @ITRealms <http://www.twitter.com/ITRealms>
[Member, NIRA Executive Board]
Author: A Decade of ICT Reportage in Nigeria
<https://www.facebook.com/adecadeofictreportageinnigeria‎>
NDS Forum on Internet Governance for Development (IG4D) 2014<
http://www.digitalsenseafrica.com.ng>- June 5
Nigeria IPv6 Roundtable 2014 <http://www.ipv6forumnigeria.ng> - June 6
@Welcome Centre Hotels. Register now. Email: remnekkv at gmail.com
_____________________________________________________________________
*Confidentiality Notice:* The information in this document and attachments
are confidential and may also be privileged information. It is intended
only for the use of the named recipient. Remmy Nweke does not accept legal
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not disclose the contents of this document to any other person, nor make
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From jaryn56 at gmail.com  Wed Aug  6 13:58:38 2014
From: jaryn56 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?Sm9zw6kgRsOpbGl4IEFyaWFzIFluY2hl?=)
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2014 12:58:38 -0500
Subject: [governance] WSIS 10+
In-Reply-To: <CAJqNAHAvqz8ju=MFiFeQrZiFm_0chcNU8QG1ZxVMtt5SHKXptA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <53B928BE.3040603@itforchange.net> <53B93A3B.6090707@ITforChange.net>
 <53DB56F7.3070702@digsys.bg> <a8ce3c8ab2dc4efc8c97c73b09608e69@EX13-MBX-07.ad.syr.edu>
 <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A801642514@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
 <4D8B9C3E-9136-4DE7-A295-57C742166B11@theglobaljournal.net>
 <53DFA103.2090808@digsys.bg> <9B82DF7F-8579-43E6-BFCC-62A2C3764EDB@theglobaljournal.net>
 <CAJqNAHAvqz8ju=MFiFeQrZiFm_0chcNU8QG1ZxVMtt5SHKXptA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAYFVLvbmQrn2ekCrMHiTRTAj=Nmr2xG=unU9ubUCpvTCbMBDA@mail.gmail.com>

Creo que debemos conversar este tema todos los que integramos la lista, y
sacar conclusiones valederas. No solamente un pequeño grupo puede tener la
razón o la suficiente inteligencia para opinar por todos, necesitamos que
la Democracia se instale en nuestra agrupación.



*Cordialmente:         José Félix Arias Ynche*
*                        Investigador Social Para El Desarrollo*


2014-08-05 13:52 GMT-05:00 Anja Kovacs <anja at internetdemocracy.in>:

> Dear all,
>
> For those who are interested, there is a plenary session on "Developing
> the information society beyond 2015: lessons from the WSIS+10 Review and
> NETmundial", organised by the Internet Democracy Project, tomorrow, 6
> August, at 1 pm IST at the APrIGF. I have pasted the full details of the
> plenary below this message.
>
> Remote participation should be available, (see
> http://2014.rigf.asia/remote/) though I heard that unfortunately today
> there were quite a few problems with it.
>
> And +1 to the proposals to write a letter to the UN Secretary General, as
> well as to the USG and, I would propose, to Fadi Chehade, who seems to have
> become the undisputed cheerleader of the USG position now that the latter
> in many ways stands publicly discredited when it comes to "Internet
> freedom" and multistakeholderism.
>
> As for Parminder's question "Did we ever ask for the WSIS model (of
> course with evolutionary improvements) for WSIS plus 10 review. No, no one
> did" - I thought that I share again this letter that some of us (including
> some who have been following the WSIS+10 Review quite closely) wrote to the
> facilitators of the governmental negotiation processes in February. I think
> it quite clearly disproves the points that Parminder was making in his
> message above.
>
>
> http://internetdemocracy.in/2014/02/letter-to-co-facilitators-calling-for-civil-society-input-into-negotiations-on-wsis10-modalities/
>
> Best regards,
> Anja
>
> *Title:* "*Developing the information society beyond 2015: lessons from
> the WSIS+10 Review and NETmundial*"
>
> Format: Panel discussion
>
> Invited panelists:
>
> Mr. Adam Peake - GLOCOM
> Dr. Anja Kovacs - Internet Democracy Project
> Dr. Govind - NIXI
> Mr. Hardeep Singh Puri - Bharatiya Janata Party and formerly Government of
> India
> Mr. Paul Wilson - APNIC
> Mr. Rajnesh Singh - ISOC
>
> Moderator: Prof. Ang Peng Hwa - Nanyan Technological University, Singapore
>
> Abstract:
>
> In 2015 the WSIS is up for an overall review. Though strictly speaking the
> WSIS was supposed to be about ICTs and development, the Internet governance
> issues that are contained in it have obtained a growing role. In fact,
> during the multistakeholder WSIS+10 MPP meetings, the debate on many more
> 'hard core' development issues often seemed to be held hostage to the IG
> debate, in that there was a reluctance to agree on new language for fear of
> the possible wider implications of such language.
>
> The ICTs for development agenda continues, however, to be of great
> importance for many countries in our region. This then raises the question
> of how the development agenda contained in the WSIS can be revitalised.
> What shape do we want the WSIS agenda and process to take beyond 2015? What
> shape do the overall review in 2015 and its preparatory processes need to
> take for this to be possible? What lessons can we learn from both the
> content and form of discussions at the WSIS+10 MPP and the WGEC to take the
> Internet governance debate forward in a way that serves the Asia-Pacific
> region and ensures that the development debate can gain greater prominence
> again? What role can and do efforts such as the NETmundial, but also
> national Internet governance processes play in shaping this?
>
> The session will reflect on our experiences of the past 11 years as part
> of the WSIS process to move forward towards a better future, and include a
> consideration of lessons learned from multistakeholder processes such as
> the NETmundial, the MPP and the WGEC on how to best get the IG part of the
> WSIS agenda unstuck.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 4 August 2014 21:39, Jean-Christophe NOTHIAS I The Global Journal <
> jc.nothias at theglobaljournal.net> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Daniel, for your point about Democracy. We all agree that
>> Democracy is a fragile world that can easily be twisted or lost. It is
>> rather difficult to admit that such a failure or loss can be the result of
>> the wrong acting by a dominating player, presumably not a rogue state.
>>
>> Applied to mass surveillance, it seems indeed a good idea to put
>> Democracy in practice: a well-balanced (and checked) democratic system
>> allows separation of powers (1), and counter-power (2) within its own
>> governing system. I am glad to act as a responsible citizen, as you
>> suggest, and bring my voice to the protesting ones, but that still sounds a
>> bit naive without the two previous settings. So it seems to me that the
>> surveillance planet is not a flat one where all countries show the same
>> surveillance power and desire. So maybe we should not close our eyes so to
>> pass on from on secret to another, concluding that all secret services are
>> equal. I don't think secret services are supposed to spy simply every
>> citizen on this planet. That was the Stasi dream, or the Stalinist
>> bureaucratic terror. In Democracy, where trust and willingness to act
>> together are fundamental assets, this is a great loss of taxpayer money.
>> So, please allow me to disagree: the US have to prove better, and not
>> worse. See their whistleblower new legal vision: a whistleblower should be
>> allowed to speak to its boss! This is presented as a progress, when it is
>> just the opposite.
>>
>> As Internet governance cannot be contained within the boundaries of one
>> single country, neither be managed by one single country, how do we deal
>> with a democratic approach taking into account the two previous points (1)
>> and (2)?
>>
>> Publicity is a good starting point at citizen level. But CS might push a
>> little further its thinking and influence to offer governance innovation to
>> politicians if they have some trouble to understand what citizens are
>> concerned about, and not just lobbyists or PR consultants are telling them
>> over a nice gastronomic table.
>>
>> Another good point for a good start would be to call a cat a cat: I know
>> only one country, moreover a self-proclaimed champion of freedom of speech
>> that has the technical power to organize and handle mass surveillance,
>> thanks to its dominant private sector champions. So even though we can
>> agree on the idea not to play the antagonistic game, we still have to agree
>> on definitions and meanings, we still need to have acceptance for diversity
>> of views and opinions. We also have to accept to speak truth to power:
>> there was no power grab attempt from ITU in December 2012, neither before,
>> nor after. And there is still not. The current asymmetry cannot be but
>> condemned. And we need more US voices to honestly admit that things have to
>> change.
>>
>> All of that means democracy. To cherish it means to use it.
>>
>> JC
>>
>>
>> Le 4 août 2014 à 17:04, Daniel Kalchev a écrit :
>>
>>
>> On 04.08.14 12:18, Jean-Christophe NOTHIAS I The Global Journal wrote:
>>
>> Nota Bene: Wolfgang, I hope you noticed that I did not mention the
>> troubling fact that the US surveillance of all Internet users browsing and
>> emailing over the beautiful unified, un-fragmented Internet under one
>> single root-zone management, and of all phone users, including president
>> Rousseff, Chancellor Merkel, European diplomats, BRICS diplomats, all
>> diplomats, politicians, citizens, that were hostage of the US surveillance
>> paranoia and infernalia. We all pay for that.
>>
>>
>> Yes, we do all pay for that.
>>
>> But then, what can we do to resolve this situation? The US secret
>> services agencies will continue to do all of this, no matter what. This is
>> why they exist. Most of them run on military style management, and obeying
>> orders is mandatory there. The same can be said about the secret services
>> of any other country. Or any special interests group.
>>
>> My experience dealing with this kind of 'operations' is that your working
>> route is publicity. Talk about it. Don't let them do it in secret. Cops
>> hate being exposed. Let Internet users become aware what is going on. Don't
>> waste your time politicizing it, in the sense of "those bad XYZ spying on
>> us good ABC", because this is nonsense (and not true in general). If
>> Internet users don't mind being subject of surveillance, who are we to
>> force them?
>>
>> If Internet users are so upset about this situation, they as individuals
>> having (whatever - voting, buying, etc) power will act up and fix it.
>>
>> Isn't this how democracy should function? :-)
>>
>> Daniel
>>
>>
>>
>>  So yes let's the CS write to USG and its digital champions. Let's start
>> to balance our role.
>>
>>  That is something everyone has obviously in mind when considering the
>> fact that governments are no longer to be seen out of the IG game. One good
>> reason to have CS coming strong into the democratic multistakeholder model,
>> JNC and others are advocating.
>>
>>  JC
>>
>>  Le 4 août 2014 à 10:46, Kleinwächter, Wolfgang a écrit :
>>
>>
>> http://www.outlookindia.com/news/article/UN-Adopts-Resolution-on-Bridging-Digital-Divide/852511
>>
>> Outlook India:
>> The resolution decided that the overall review will be concluded in
>> December 2015 by a two-day General Assembly high-level meeting to be
>> preceded by an inter-governmental preparatory process that also takes into
>> account inputs from all relevant stakeholders of WSIS.  The
>> intergovernmental negotiation process would begin in June 2015 and lead to
>> an inter-governmentally agreed outcome document for adoption at the UNGA
>> meeting. The process retains the ownership of the preparatory meetings and
>> the final outcome document with member states alone. Mukerji said the
>> resolution ensures that leaders, "at the highest possible level" will meet
>> at the high-level plenary meeting in December next year to adopt the
>> outcome of the intergovernmental negotiations.
>>
>> Wolfgang:
>> One of the big achievements in the WSIS process was that civil society
>> got a voice in the process. A Milestone was the CS WSIS Declaratzion from
>> December 2003 which was handed over to the president of the first summit,
>> WSIS 1. It became an official document. The Tunis Agenda confirmed and
>> enhanced the role of civil society. As you can see from the text above, ten
>> years later this process is back in the hands of "governments only". The
>> final outcome document will be with member states only by taking into
>> account inputs from all relevant stakeholders (which sounds like a joke
>> with the experiences of a enhanced communicartion and cooperation over the
>> last ten years, including the UNCSTD WGs. Should civil society write a
>> letter to UN Secretary General Ban Kin Moon?
>> <ATT00001.png>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>  ____________________________________________________________
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>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
> --
> Dr. Anja Kovacs
> The Internet Democracy Project
>
> +91 9899028053 | @anjakovacs
> www.internetdemocracy.in
>
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From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com  Wed Aug  6 21:29:13 2014
From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2014 13:29:13 +1200
Subject: [governance] WSIS 10+
In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A801642514@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
References: <53B928BE.3040603@itforchange.net>
	<53B93A3B.6090707@ITforChange.net>
	<53DB56F7.3070702@digsys.bg>
	<a8ce3c8ab2dc4efc8c97c73b09608e69@EX13-MBX-07.ad.syr.edu>
	<2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A801642514@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
Message-ID: <CAJwbTiAhcqO_ry8aVY+Kz7dZzz2=G1gzg2GO278+VEwtrfTQ=Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Wolfgang,

>From the Pacific, we can shoot the proposal down as we can secure at least
16 votes in the UNGA to support enhanced civil society input.

Sad that it has to come to this.

Sala


On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 8:46 PM, "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" <
wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de> wrote:

>
> http://www.outlookindia.com/news/article/UN-Adopts-Resolution-on-Bridging-Digital-Divide/852511
>
> Outlook India:
> The resolution decided that the overall review will be concluded in
> December 2015 by a two-day General Assembly high-level meeting to be
> preceded by an inter-governmental preparatory process that also takes into
> account inputs from all relevant stakeholders of WSIS.  The
> intergovernmental negotiation process would begin in June 2015 and lead to
> an inter-governmentally agreed outcome document for adoption at the UNGA
> meeting. The process retains the ownership of the preparatory meetings and
> the final outcome document with member states alone. Mukerji said the
> resolution ensures that leaders, "at the highest possible level" will meet
> at the high-level plenary meeting in December next year to adopt the
> outcome of the intergovernmental negotiations.
>
> Wolfgang:
> One of the big achievements in the WSIS process was that civil society got
> a voice in the process. A Milestone was the CS WSIS Declaratzion from
> December 2003 which was handed over to the president of the first summit,
> WSIS 1. It became an official document. The Tunis Agenda confirmed and
> enhanced the role of civil society. As you can see from the text above, ten
> years later this process is back in the hands of "governments only". The
> final outcome document will be with member states only by taking into
> account inputs from all relevant stakeholders (which sounds like a joke
> with the experiences of a enhanced communicartion and cooperation over the
> last ten years, including the UNCSTD WGs. Should civil society write a
> letter to UN Secretary General Ban Kin Moon?
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
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From wjdrake at gmail.com  Thu Aug  7 04:09:23 2014
From: wjdrake at gmail.com (William Drake)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2014 10:09:23 +0200
Subject: [governance] Visa for IGF Turkey
References: <44977FEA-AD1F-4A9C-8F90-0D9A716B62E4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <221E1301-637A-451D-9051-D53C3F65DE64@gmail.com>

of potential interest

Begin forwarded message:

> From: William Drake <wjdrake at gmail.com>
> Subject: Visa for IGF Turkey
> Date: August 7, 2014 at 9:56:25 AM GMT+2
> To: NCUC-discuss <ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org>
> 
> Hi
> 
> Anyway who is planning on going to the IGF in Istanbul and has yet to get a visa may want to hold off a bit.  I’ve asked about free courtesy visas and the government has said yes to that but the final options for collecting them are TBD.
> 
> Bill
> 
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
> 
>> From: William Drake <william.drake at uzh.ch>
>> Subject: Re: Visa for Turkey
>> Date: August 6, 2014 at 12:38:08 PM GMT+2
>> To: Samet TUNCER <stuncer at btk.gov.tr>
>> Cc: "igfmaglist-bounces at intgovforum.org" <igfmaglist-bounces at intgovforum.org>, Aysel KANDEMİR <akandemir at btk.gov.tr>, Meral ÖZTARHAN <moztarhan at btk.gov.tr>
>> 
>> Hello Samet
>> 
>> Thank you for this excellent news, I’m sure it will be greatly appreciated by participants!
>> 
>> Just to be sure, are you saying that in order to receive a courtesy visa, one must go to an embassy or consulate?  While in my case there’s a Turkish consulate in Geneva, many other people won’t have this local option, and I assume it wouldn’t be possible to do with the online visa.  But could it be logistically possible to allow collection of a courtesy visa upon arrival at the airport with the IGF registration letter?  
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Bill 
>> 
>> On Aug 6, 2014, at 12:18 PM, Samet TUNCER <stuncer at btk.gov.tr> wrote:
>> 
>>> Dear Sir/Madam,
>>>  
>>> I would like to inform you that Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs have made an arrangement for visa for IGF participants. Accordingly, the “IGF Registration Confirmation Letter” sent by IGF Secretariat via e-mail  will be considered as valid proof for visa without fee in all Turkish Embassies/Consulates. So, you do not need to pay visa fee as IGF participants.
>>>  
>>> Best regards,
>>>  
>>> Samet Tuncer
>>> Junior ICT Expert
>>> Information and Communication Technologies Authority
> 
>> Begin forwarded message:
> 
>> From: William Drake <wjdrake at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
>> Date: August 4, 2014 at 4:05:18 PM GMT+2
>> To: Filiz Yilmaz <koalafil at gmail.com>
>> Cc: MAG-public <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>, IGF <IGF at unog.ch>
>> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> Sorry, I couldn’t find an answer on the website or the list archive, so could someone please remind me: has there been an arrangement made for courtesy visas, as with previous IGFs?  Or do we just follow the normal application process and pay the full fee, as applicable?
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
> 

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From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com  Thu Aug  7 04:11:07 2014
From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2014 20:11:07 +1200
Subject: [governance] Visa for IGF Turkey
In-Reply-To: <221E1301-637A-451D-9051-D53C3F65DE64@gmail.com>
References: <44977FEA-AD1F-4A9C-8F90-0D9A716B62E4@gmail.com>
	<221E1301-637A-451D-9051-D53C3F65DE64@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJwbTiBZRK=PjmW+gi2RhHmLXJ+8k184T9NvFkAZQb8iCmiyuA@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Bill, much appreciated


On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 8:09 PM, William Drake <wjdrake at gmail.com> wrote:

> of potential interest
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> *From: *William Drake <wjdrake at gmail.com>
> *Subject: **Visa for IGF Turkey*
> *Date: *August 7, 2014 at 9:56:25 AM GMT+2
> *To: *NCUC-discuss <ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org>
>
> Hi
>
> Anyway who is planning on going to the IGF in Istanbul and has yet to get
> a visa may want to hold off a bit.  I’ve asked about free courtesy visas
> and the government has said yes to that but the final options for
> collecting them are TBD.
>
> Bill
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> *From: *William Drake <william.drake at uzh.ch>
> *Subject: **Re: Visa for Turkey*
> *Date: *August 6, 2014 at 12:38:08 PM GMT+2
> *To: *Samet TUNCER <stuncer at btk.gov.tr>
> *Cc: *"igfmaglist-bounces at intgovforum.org" <
> igfmaglist-bounces at intgovforum.org>, Aysel KANDEMİR <akandemir at btk.gov.tr>,
> Meral ÖZTARHAN <moztarhan at btk.gov.tr>
>
> Hello Samet
>
> Thank you for this excellent news, I’m sure it will be greatly appreciated
> by participants!
>
> Just to be sure, are you saying that in order to receive a courtesy visa,
> one must go to an embassy or consulate?  While in my case there’s a Turkish
> consulate in Geneva, many other people won’t have this local option, and I
> assume it wouldn’t be possible to do with the online visa.  But could it be
> logistically possible to allow collection of a courtesy visa upon arrival
> at the airport with the IGF registration letter?
>
> Best
>
> Bill
>
> On Aug 6, 2014, at 12:18 PM, Samet TUNCER <stuncer at btk.gov.tr> wrote:
>
> Dear Sir/Madam,
>
> I would like to inform you that Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs have
> made an arrangement for visa for IGF participants. Accordingly, the “IGF
> Registration Confirmation Letter” sent by IGF Secretariat via e-mail  will
> be considered as valid proof for visa without fee in all Turkish
> Embassies/Consulates. So, you do not need to pay visa fee as IGF
> participants.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Samet Tuncer
> Junior ICT Expert
> Information and Communication Technologies Authority
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>
> *From: *William Drake <wjdrake at gmail.com>
> *Subject: **Re: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey*
> *Date: *August 4, 2014 at 4:05:18 PM GMT+2
> *To: *Filiz Yilmaz <koalafil at gmail.com>
> *Cc: *MAG-public <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>, IGF <IGF at unog.ch>
>
> Hi
>
> Sorry, I couldn’t find an answer on the website or the list archive, so
> could someone please remind me: has there been an arrangement made for
> courtesy visas, as with previous IGFs?  Or do we just follow the normal
> application process and pay the full fee, as applicable?
>
> Thanks
>
> Bill
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
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>
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From nnenna75 at gmail.com  Thu Aug  7 04:41:27 2014
From: nnenna75 at gmail.com (Nnenna Nwakanma)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2014 08:41:27 +0000
Subject: [governance] Web We Want festival
Message-ID: <CADFgh11FgskO9gSS6yJjrp6PvFkY30qrKFsRySTGGHA6_r2NRQ@mail.gmail.com>

*Dear all, Apologies for crossposting WEB WE WANT FESTIVAL 25 years ago,
Sir Tim Berners-Lee invented the World Wide Web and gave it to the world.
To mark the anniversary - this turning point for humanity - we are creating
Web We Want - a major new three-part festival at Southbank Centre - which
will be designed by YOU. WE NEED YOU Inspired by the World Wide Web
Foundation <http://webfoundation.org/> and working in partnership with the
Foundation’s ‘Web We Want <https://webwewant.org/>’ global campaign for a
free, open and universal Web, the festival will be an extensive celebration
of how the Web has changed our lives. It will also explore some of the
things that threaten the web as we know it and what solutions there might
be. Mirroring Tim Berners-Lee’s vision for the web as a place for equality,
we’re asking you - local and distant community groups, neighbours and
strangers, techies and technophobes, old and young, urban and rural, with
any level of web-literacy - to create the content. To do this, we are
asking everybody to answer these five questions: 1. What Web projects have
you encountered that leap borders or conventional approaches to change
people's lives? #LeapBorders 2.     What do you think are the best examples
of creativity and artistic imagination on the Web? #creativity 3.     What
examples of personal, corporate or government online action threatens the
future of a free, open and universal Web? #OpenWeb 4.     What aspects of
the Web give you the greatest joy and the greatest worry? #joy  #worry 5.
    What ideas, projects or schemes would you suggest we present at the
festival to celebrate the 25th Anniversary of the Web? #ideas You can
answer these on social media or write to us at Web We Want Festival,
Southbank Centre, Belvedere Road, London, SE1 8XX. The deadline for ideas
for the September weekend is 29 August 2014, but keep ideas coming until
May 2015. Twitter - https://twitter.com/webwewantfest
<https://twitter.com/webwewantfest> #WebWeWantFest YouTube -
https://www.youtube.com/SouthbankCentre
<https://www.youtube.com/SouthbankCentre> Facebook -
https://www.facebook.com/southbankcentre
<https://www.facebook.com/southbankcentre>   Anyone can contribute, all
contributions will be treated equally, and you can answer the questions as
many times as you like and on behalf of other people, with their
permission. Email webwewant at southbankcentre.co.uk
<webwewant at southbankcentre.co.uk> with any questions. WHAT NEXT? Your
content will come to life online and across three real life festival
weekends at Southbank Centre - 26-28 September 2014, 28-30 November 2014
and 29-31 May 2015 - curated by Southbank Centre and World Wide Web
Foundation. Keep checking back to
<http://www.southbankcentre.co.uk/webwewant>http://www.southbankcentre.co.uk/webwewantfest
<http://www.southbankcentre.co.uk/webwewantfes>, social media and our
Tumblr page http://webwewantfest.tumblr.com
<http://webwewantfest.tumblr.com/> for updates. Please send this invitation
to anyone you think might be interested in contributing. We are looking
forward to hearing from you, and seeing you for the first instalment of the
Web We Want Festival in September. With thanks, Jude Kelly and the Web We
Want team, Southbank Centre. [image: f_logo.jpg]
<https://www.facebook.com/southbankcentre>[image: YouTube.jpg]
<https://www.youtube.com/SouthbankCentre>  [image: Twitter.JPG]
<https://twitter.com/webwewantfest> *
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From fouadbajwa at gmail.com  Fri Aug  8 12:28:31 2014
From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Bajwa)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2014 21:28:31 +0500
Subject: [governance] All Facebook Messenger App users are spied upon
 willingly?
Message-ID: <CAHuaJtMrXbCnkW2kxW4-ccPtGBFARr5hLcDVFh_gEh+6xGmC6g@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.cosmopolitan.co.uk/reports/news/a28527/facebook-messenger-app-spy-record/

-- 
Regards.
--------------------------
Fouad Bajwa
ICT4D and Internet Governance Advisor
My Blog: Internet's Governance: http://internetsgovernance.blogspot.com/
Follow my Tweets: http://twitter.com/fouadbajwa
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From nb at bollow.ch  Sat Aug  9 04:28:41 2014
From: nb at bollow.ch (Norbert Bollow)
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 10:28:41 +0200
Subject: [governance] Russia demands Internet users show ID to access public
 Wifi
Message-ID: <20140809102841.13bf17b5@quill>

Reuters:

Russia demands Internet users show ID to access public Wifi

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/08/us-russia-internet-idUSKBN0G81RV20140808

In my view this is a clear human rights violation and something that I
would expect us all to be able to agree to condemn.

May I request the IGC coordinators to coordinate some action in regard
to this matter?

Greetings,
Norbert

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From chaitanyabd at gmail.com  Sat Aug  9 04:46:04 2014
From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar)
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 14:16:04 +0530
Subject: [governance] Russia demands Internet users show ID to access
 public Wifi
In-Reply-To: <20140809102841.13bf17b5@quill>
References: <20140809102841.13bf17b5@quill>
Message-ID: <CAEP5zKQO9mAtNN7ZLPVT0sc9edXUy9gNt8VG-5H7KWP8oEh=GQ@mail.gmail.com>

I don't see why this would be a human rights violation (speaking from India
pov) given the fact that:

1. You need to submit ID proof when you take an internet connection at your
residence/office
2. You need to product ID proof while using a cyber cafe

So since this regulatory aspect is already put in place one would naturally
expect that if there's some form of public wifi the service provider would
ask for ID proof...?

Best,

*Chaitanya Dhareshwar*

Linkedin <http://in.linkedin.com/in/chaitanyabd> | Blog <http://cbd.vcio.in> |
Skype: chaitanyabd
Mobile: +91.9820760253


On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch> wrote:

> Reuters:
>
> Russia demands Internet users show ID to access public Wifi
>
>
> http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/08/us-russia-internet-idUSKBN0G81RV20140808
>
> In my view this is a clear human rights violation and something that I
> would expect us all to be able to agree to condemn.
>
> May I request the IGC coordinators to coordinate some action in regard
> to this matter?
>
> Greetings,
> Norbert
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
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>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
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From chlebrum at gmail.com  Sat Aug  9 04:51:40 2014
From: chlebrum at gmail.com (chlebrum .)
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 10:51:40 +0200
Subject: [governance] Russia demands Internet users show ID to access
 public Wifi
In-Reply-To: <CAEP5zKQO9mAtNN7ZLPVT0sc9edXUy9gNt8VG-5H7KWP8oEh=GQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20140809102841.13bf17b5@quill> <CAEP5zKQO9mAtNN7ZLPVT0sc9edXUy9gNt8VG-5H7KWP8oEh=GQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANMQhZiP90rE_NWXbQnyF82aAeVgLCtC-Zt9gDgD_FvPCofeUA@mail.gmail.com>

It is a rule already established for *public* hotspots, not applicable to
the private wifi network.




2014-08-09 10:46 GMT+02:00 Chaitanya Dhareshwar <chaitanyabd at gmail.com>:

> I don't see why this would be a human rights violation (speaking from
> India pov) given the fact that:
>
> 1. You need to submit ID proof when you take an internet connection at
> your residence/office
> 2. You need to product ID proof while using a cyber cafe
>
> So since this regulatory aspect is already put in place one would
> naturally expect that if there's some form of public wifi the service
> provider would ask for ID proof...?
>
> Best,
>
> *Chaitanya Dhareshwar*
>
> Linkedin <http://in.linkedin.com/in/chaitanyabd> | Blog
> <http://cbd.vcio.in> | Skype: chaitanyabd
> Mobile: +91.9820760253
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch> wrote:
>
>>  Reuters:
>>
>> Russia demands Internet users show ID to access public Wifi
>>
>>
>> http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/08/us-russia-internet-idUSKBN0G81RV20140808
>>
>> In my view this is a clear human rights violation and something that I
>> would expect us all to be able to agree to condemn.
>>
>> May I request the IGC coordinators to coordinate some action in regard
>> to this matter?
>>
>> Greetings,
>> Norbert
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
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> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
Chantal Lebrument

​Courriel: lebrument at open-root.eu
Mob: +33 6 8369 5460
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From nb at bollow.ch  Sat Aug  9 05:48:54 2014
From: nb at bollow.ch (Norbert Bollow)
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 11:48:54 +0200
Subject: [governance] Russia demands Internet users show ID to access
 public Wifi
In-Reply-To: <CAEP5zKQO9mAtNN7ZLPVT0sc9edXUy9gNt8VG-5H7KWP8oEh=GQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20140809102841.13bf17b5@quill>
	<CAEP5zKQO9mAtNN7ZLPVT0sc9edXUy9gNt8VG-5H7KWP8oEh=GQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140809114854.5e8c6204@quill>

On Sat, 9 Aug 2014 14:16:04 +0530
Chaitanya Dhareshwar <chaitanyabd at gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't see why this would be a human rights violation

You need to look at the measure in its context. There is no way that
the intention behind this measure and the human right to freedom of
speech could possibly be reconciled. In this case, the goals clearly
include an intention to reduce legitimate but critical political speech,
and to gain information on critics.

That said, it wouldn't hurt to think deeply and honestly about whether
similar identification requirements are really acceptable in contexts
where the objectives are legitimate law enforcement goals.

As the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights has recently
noted:

  19. In a similar vein, it has been suggested that the interception or
  collection of data about a communication, as opposed to the content of
  the communication, does not on its own constitute an interference with
  privacy. From the perspective of the right to privacy, this
  distinction is not persuasive. The aggregation of information
  commonly referred to as “metadata” may give an insight into an
  individual’s behaviour, social relationships, private preferences and
  identity that go beyond even that conveyed by accessing the content
  of a private communication. As the European Union Court of Justice
  recently observed, communications metadata “taken as a whole may
  allow very precise conclusions to be drawn concerning the private
  lives of the persons whose data has been retained.” Recognition of
  this evolution has prompted initiatives to reform existing policies
  and practices to ensure stronger protection of privacy.

  20. It follows that any capture of communications data is potentially
  an interference with privacy and, further, that the collection and
  retention of communications data amounts to an interference with
  privacy whether or not those data are subsequently consulted or used.
  Even the mere possibility of communications information being
  captured creates an interference with privacy, with a potential
  chilling effect on rights, including those to free expression and
  association. The very existence of a mass surveillance programme thus
  creates an interference with privacy. The onus would be on the State
  to demonstrate that such interference is neither arbitrary nor
  unlawful.

Source:
http://www.ohchr.org/EN/Issues/DigitalAge/Pages/DigitalAgeIndex.aspx

Note in particular the last sentence. It is true that many states
have some kinds of ID requirements in relation to electronic
communications, but they are currently not even attempting to fulfill
this responsibility “to demonstrate that such interference is neither
arbitrary nor unlawful.”

Greetings,
Norbert


On Sat, 9 Aug 2014 14:16:04 +0530
Chaitanya Dhareshwar <chaitanyabd at gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't see why this would be a human rights violation (speaking from
> India pov) given the fact that:
> 
> 1. You need to submit ID proof when you take an internet connection
> at your residence/office
> 2. You need to product ID proof while using a cyber cafe
> 
> So since this regulatory aspect is already put in place one would
> naturally expect that if there's some form of public wifi the service
> provider would ask for ID proof...?
> 
> Best,
> 
> *Chaitanya Dhareshwar*
> 
> Linkedin <http://in.linkedin.com/in/chaitanyabd> | Blog
> <http://cbd.vcio.in> | Skype: chaitanyabd
> Mobile: +91.9820760253
> 
> 
> On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch> wrote:
> 
> > Reuters:
> >
> > Russia demands Internet users show ID to access public Wifi
> >
> >
> > http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/08/us-russia-internet-idUSKBN0G81RV20140808
> >
> > In my view this is a clear human rights violation and something
> > that I would expect us all to be able to agree to condemn.
> >
> > May I request the IGC coordinators to coordinate some action in
> > regard to this matter?
> >
> > Greetings,
> > Norbert
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> > To be removed from the list, visit:
> >      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >
> > For all other list information and functions, see:
> >      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >      http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >
> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >
> >


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From chaitanyabd at gmail.com  Sat Aug  9 05:59:23 2014
From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar)
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 15:29:23 +0530
Subject: [governance] Russia demands Internet users show ID to access
 public Wifi
In-Reply-To: <20140809114854.5e8c6204@quill>
References: <20140809102841.13bf17b5@quill>
	<CAEP5zKQO9mAtNN7ZLPVT0sc9edXUy9gNt8VG-5H7KWP8oEh=GQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20140809114854.5e8c6204@quill>
Message-ID: <CAEP5zKS80vnLNH0PL8G1nvc1cqeX6gkGsuyWLOypURtTZsrH6g@mail.gmail.com>

That being the case India has some of the more interesting contraventions
of this policy - just google "arrested for facebook post" and India has the
best hits on there.

Sure while giving ID proof while utilizing the internet may not be a legal
requirement (as per local or international law) - its enforced by most
service providers here.

*Chaitanya Dhareshwar*

Linkedin <http://in.linkedin.com/in/chaitanyabd> | Blog <http://cbd.vcio.in> |
Skype: chaitanyabd
Mobile: +91.9820760253


On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 3:18 PM, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch> wrote:

> On Sat, 9 Aug 2014 14:16:04 +0530
> Chaitanya Dhareshwar <chaitanyabd at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I don't see why this would be a human rights violation
>
> You need to look at the measure in its context. There is no way that
> the intention behind this measure and the human right to freedom of
> speech could possibly be reconciled. In this case, the goals clearly
> include an intention to reduce legitimate but critical political speech,
> and to gain information on critics.
>
> That said, it wouldn't hurt to think deeply and honestly about whether
> similar identification requirements are really acceptable in contexts
> where the objectives are legitimate law enforcement goals.
>
> As the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights has recently
> noted:
>
>   19. In a similar vein, it has been suggested that the interception or
>   collection of data about a communication, as opposed to the content of
>   the communication, does not on its own constitute an interference with
>   privacy. From the perspective of the right to privacy, this
>   distinction is not persuasive. The aggregation of information
>   commonly referred to as “metadata” may give an insight into an
>   individual’s behaviour, social relationships, private preferences and
>   identity that go beyond even that conveyed by accessing the content
>   of a private communication. As the European Union Court of Justice
>   recently observed, communications metadata “taken as a whole may
>   allow very precise conclusions to be drawn concerning the private
>   lives of the persons whose data has been retained.” Recognition of
>   this evolution has prompted initiatives to reform existing policies
>   and practices to ensure stronger protection of privacy.
>
>   20. It follows that any capture of communications data is potentially
>   an interference with privacy and, further, that the collection and
>   retention of communications data amounts to an interference with
>   privacy whether or not those data are subsequently consulted or used.
>   Even the mere possibility of communications information being
>   captured creates an interference with privacy, with a potential
>   chilling effect on rights, including those to free expression and
>   association. The very existence of a mass surveillance programme thus
>   creates an interference with privacy. The onus would be on the State
>   to demonstrate that such interference is neither arbitrary nor
>   unlawful.
>
> Source:
> http://www.ohchr.org/EN/Issues/DigitalAge/Pages/DigitalAgeIndex.aspx
>
> Note in particular the last sentence. It is true that many states
> have some kinds of ID requirements in relation to electronic
> communications, but they are currently not even attempting to fulfill
> this responsibility “to demonstrate that such interference is neither
> arbitrary nor unlawful.”
>
> Greetings,
> Norbert
>
>
> On Sat, 9 Aug 2014 14:16:04 +0530
> Chaitanya Dhareshwar <chaitanyabd at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I don't see why this would be a human rights violation (speaking from
> > India pov) given the fact that:
> >
> > 1. You need to submit ID proof when you take an internet connection
> > at your residence/office
> > 2. You need to product ID proof while using a cyber cafe
> >
> > So since this regulatory aspect is already put in place one would
> > naturally expect that if there's some form of public wifi the service
> > provider would ask for ID proof...?
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > *Chaitanya Dhareshwar*
> >
> > Linkedin <http://in.linkedin.com/in/chaitanyabd> | Blog
> > <http://cbd.vcio.in> | Skype: chaitanyabd
> > Mobile: +91.9820760253
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch> wrote:
> >
> > > Reuters:
> > >
> > > Russia demands Internet users show ID to access public Wifi
> > >
> > >
> > >
> http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/08/us-russia-internet-idUSKBN0G81RV20140808
> > >
> > > In my view this is a clear human rights violation and something
> > > that I would expect us all to be able to agree to condemn.
> > >
> > > May I request the IGC coordinators to coordinate some action in
> > > regard to this matter?
> > >
> > > Greetings,
> > > Norbert
> > >
> > >
> > > ____________________________________________________________
> > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> > >      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> > > To be removed from the list, visit:
> > >      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> > >
> > > For all other list information and functions, see:
> > >      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> > > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> > >      http://www.igcaucus.org/
> > >
> > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> > >
> > >
>
>
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From suresh at hserus.net  Sat Aug  9 07:40:11 2014
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 17:10:11 +0530
Subject: [governance] Russia demands Internet users show ID to access
 public Wifi
In-Reply-To: <CANMQhZiP90rE_NWXbQnyF82aAeVgLCtC-Zt9gDgD_FvPCofeUA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20140809102841.13bf17b5@quill> <CAEP5zKQO9mAtNN7ZLPVT0sc9edXUy9gNt8VG-5H7KWP8oEh=GQ@mail.gmail.com> <CANMQhZiP90rE_NWXbQnyF82aAeVgLCtC-Zt9gDgD_FvPCofeUA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B49BED65-6183-4913-93C2-D1BC15590D48@hserus.net>

Agreed. But where are they asking for ID to access private wifi?  Public wifi by definition is coffee shops, airports etc.

Russia has its fair share of human rights issues but this is fairly standard practice at least from the standpoint of preventing these from being used by scam artists etc.

The ID for public hotspots and cyber cafés rule in India came about after a series of bombings where the terrorists were sending taunting emails to the police from public wifi hotspots and open woof access points.

--srs (iPad)

> On 09-Aug-2014, at 14:21, "chlebrum ." <chlebrum at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> It is a rule already established for public hotspots, not applicable to the private wifi network. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2014-08-09 10:46 GMT+02:00 Chaitanya Dhareshwar <chaitanyabd at gmail.com>:
>> I don't see why this would be a human rights violation (speaking from India pov) given the fact that:
>> 
>> 1. You need to submit ID proof when you take an internet connection at your residence/office
>> 2. You need to product ID proof while using a cyber cafe
>> 
>> So since this regulatory aspect is already put in place one would naturally expect that if there's some form of public wifi the service provider would ask for ID proof...? 
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Chaitanya Dhareshwar
>> 
>> Linkedin | Blog | Skype: chaitanyabd
>> Mobile: +91.9820760253
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch> wrote:
>>> Reuters:
>>> 
>>> Russia demands Internet users show ID to access public Wifi
>>> 
>>> http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/08/us-russia-internet-idUSKBN0G81RV20140808
>>> 
>>> In my view this is a clear human rights violation and something that I
>>> would expect us all to be able to agree to condemn.
>>> 
>>> May I request the IGC coordinators to coordinate some action in regard
>>> to this matter?
>>> 
>>> Greetings,
>>> Norbert
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>> 
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>> 
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> 
>> 
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> 
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> 
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Chantal Lebrument
> 
> ​Courriel: lebrument at open-root.eu
> Mob: +33 6 8369 5460
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
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>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
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From williams.deirdre at gmail.com  Sat Aug  9 08:23:19 2014
From: williams.deirdre at gmail.com (Deirdre Williams)
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 08:23:19 -0400
Subject: [governance] Russia demands Internet users show ID to access
 public Wifi
In-Reply-To: <CAEP5zKQO9mAtNN7ZLPVT0sc9edXUy9gNt8VG-5H7KWP8oEh=GQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20140809102841.13bf17b5@quill>
	<CAEP5zKQO9mAtNN7ZLPVT0sc9edXUy9gNt8VG-5H7KWP8oEh=GQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMz5XN54FPShV+WS=OQ3StH6aZpVvnVBc-v4vDsnw0ua8hGXnw@mail.gmail.com>

Does anyone else have an opinion on this issue? Norbert and Chaitanya offer
very different perspectives.
Currently I'm sitting in an airport using public WiFi, but I had to be very
well documented to get to this point.
Deirdre
On 9 Aug 2014 04:46, "Chaitanya Dhareshwar" <chaitanyabd at gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't see why this would be a human rights violation (speaking from
> India pov) given the fact that:
>
> 1. You need to submit ID proof when you take an internet connection at
> your residence/office
> 2. You need to product ID proof while using a cyber cafe
>
> So since this regulatory aspect is already put in place one would
> naturally expect that if there's some form of public wifi the service
> provider would ask for ID proof...?
>
> Best,
>
> *Chaitanya Dhareshwar*
>
> Linkedin <http://in.linkedin.com/in/chaitanyabd> | Blog
> <http://cbd.vcio.in> | Skype: chaitanyabd
> Mobile: +91.9820760253
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch> wrote:
>
>> Reuters:
>>
>> Russia demands Internet users show ID to access public Wifi
>>
>>
>> http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/08/us-russia-internet-idUSKBN0G81RV20140808
>>
>> In my view this is a clear human rights violation and something that I
>> would expect us all to be able to agree to condemn.
>>
>> May I request the IGC coordinators to coordinate some action in regard
>> to this matter?
>>
>> Greetings,
>> Norbert
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
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From kstubbs at afilias.info  Sat Aug  9 09:45:25 2014
From: kstubbs at afilias.info (Ken Stubbs)
Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2014 09:45:25 -0400
Subject: [governance] Russia demands Internet users show ID to access
 public Wifi
In-Reply-To: <CAMz5XN54FPShV+WS=OQ3StH6aZpVvnVBc-v4vDsnw0ua8hGXnw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20140809102841.13bf17b5@quill>	<CAEP5zKQO9mAtNN7ZLPVT0sc9edXUy9gNt8VG-5H7KWP8oEh=GQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAMz5XN54FPShV+WS=OQ3StH6aZpVvnVBc-v4vDsnw0ua8hGXnw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53E625F5.5050907@afilias.info>

Let's be frank here...

Use of the Internet is not a human right..
Countries have the right to enact laws which place certain requirements
for Internet access.

We can have a discussion on limitations on the requirements, equality of 
access, etc but, like it or not,
this ability to require identification is a legitimate right of that 
country or domicile.

I see it as no different than, in certain countries (like spain, etc.) , 
I am required to present a passport
(even if I pay cash in advance) to secure a hotel room.

In both cases,I am giving up privacy in exchange for something of value.

It is a continuing fact of life in today's times.

Ken Stubbs





On 8/9/2014 8:23 AM, Deirdre Williams wrote:
>
> Does anyone else have an opinion on this issue? Norbert and Chaitanya 
> offer very different perspectives.
> Currently I'm sitting in an airport using public WiFi, but I had to be 
> very well documented to get to this point.
> Deirdre
>
> On 9 Aug 2014 04:46, "Chaitanya Dhareshwar" <chaitanyabd at gmail.com 
> <mailto:chaitanyabd at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     I don't see why this would be a human rights violation (speaking
>     from India pov) given the fact that:
>
>     1. You need to submit ID proof when you take an internet
>     connection at your residence/office
>     2. You need to product ID proof while using a cyber cafe
>
>     So since this regulatory aspect is already put in place one would
>     naturally expect that if there's some form of public wifi the
>     service provider would ask for ID proof...?
>
>     Best,
>
>     *Chaitanya Dhareshwar*
>     **
>     Linkedin <http://in.linkedin.com/in/chaitanyabd>| Blog
>     <http://cbd.vcio.in>| Skype: chaitanyabd
>     Mobile: +91.9820760253 <tel:%2B91.9820760253>
>
>
>     On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch
>     <mailto:nb at bollow.ch>> wrote:
>
>         Reuters:
>
>         Russia demands Internet users show ID to access public Wifi
>
>         http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/08/us-russia-internet-idUSKBN0G81RV20140808
>
>         In my view this is a clear human rights violation and
>         something that I
>         would expect us all to be able to agree to condemn.
>
>         May I request the IGC coordinators to coordinate some action
>         in regard
>         to this matter?
>
>         Greetings,
>         Norbert
>
>
>         ____________________________________________________________
>         You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>         governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>         <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
>         To be removed from the list, visit:
>         http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
>         For all other list information and functions, see:
>         http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>         To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>         http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
>         Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>
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>     You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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From cveraq at gmail.com  Sat Aug  9 08:32:25 2014
From: cveraq at gmail.com (Carlos Vera Quintana)
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 14:32:25 +0200
Subject: [governance] Russia demands Internet users show ID to access
 public Wifi
In-Reply-To: <CAEP5zKQO9mAtNN7ZLPVT0sc9edXUy9gNt8VG-5H7KWP8oEh=GQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20140809102841.13bf17b5@quill> <CAEP5zKQO9mAtNN7ZLPVT0sc9edXUy9gNt8VG-5H7KWP8oEh=GQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <98552F51-7447-46AA-A64C-21F1B481E158@gmail.com>

I spend last month traveling all around Europe and in London, France, Italy, Spain, etc you can access free public wifi only if you proof your identity by one or several ways: 1. They send you an SMS to your phone so they confirm your ID, 2. You register from Home, 3. You send a credit card number and pay 0.50 cents to prove this is your credit card and so..

So there are lot of ways to force and ID proof no only on east countries but mainly in west ones 

Carlos Vera Quintana
0988141143
Sígueme @cveraq

> El 09/08/2014, a las 10:46, Chaitanya Dhareshwar <chaitanyabd at gmail.com> escribió:
> 
> I don't see why this would be a human rights violation (speaking from India pov) given the fact that:
> 
> 1. You need to submit ID proof when you take an internet connection at your residence/office
> 2. You need to product ID proof while using a cyber cafe
> 
> So since this regulatory aspect is already put in place one would naturally expect that if there's some form of public wifi the service provider would ask for ID proof...? 
> 
> Best,
> 
> Chaitanya Dhareshwar
> 
> Linkedin | Blog | Skype: chaitanyabd
> Mobile: +91.9820760253
> 
> 
>> On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch> wrote:
>> Reuters:
>> 
>> Russia demands Internet users show ID to access public Wifi
>> 
>> http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/08/us-russia-internet-idUSKBN0G81RV20140808
>> 
>> In my view this is a clear human rights violation and something that I
>> would expect us all to be able to agree to condemn.
>> 
>> May I request the IGC coordinators to coordinate some action in regard
>> to this matter?
>> 
>> Greetings,
>> Norbert
>> 
>> 
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> 
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> 
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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> To be removed from the list, visit:
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From Kivuva at transworldafrica.com  Sat Aug  9 13:50:31 2014
From: Kivuva at transworldafrica.com (Mwendwa Kivuva)
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 20:50:31 +0300
Subject: [governance] Russia demands Internet users show ID to access
 public Wifi
In-Reply-To: <53E625F5.5050907@afilias.info>
References: <20140809102841.13bf17b5@quill>
	<CAEP5zKQO9mAtNN7ZLPVT0sc9edXUy9gNt8VG-5H7KWP8oEh=GQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMz5XN54FPShV+WS=OQ3StH6aZpVvnVBc-v4vDsnw0ua8hGXnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<53E625F5.5050907@afilias.info>
Message-ID: <CAEhPqwo2Crm9J7t8ohWcx3uMrECxEQMzTT5RNpHMiuDJBoJkSQ@mail.gmail.com>

Ken, the statement "use of Internet is not a human right" is
disreputable. When we say the Internet is a human right, we mean we
should not restrict anybody from access. But all rights have
limitations, like requiring public wifi users to identify themselves.
But we should not deny anybody access

On 09/08/2014, Ken Stubbs <kstubbs at afilias.info> wrote:
> Let's be frank here...
>
> Use of the Internet is not a human right..
> Countries have the right to enact laws which place certain requirements
> for Internet access.
>
> We can have a discussion on limitations on the requirements, equality of
> access, etc but, like it or not,
> this ability to require identification is a legitimate right of that
> country or domicile.
>
> I see it as no different than, in certain countries (like spain, etc.) ,
> I am required to present a passport
> (even if I pay cash in advance) to secure a hotel room.
>
> In both cases,I am giving up privacy in exchange for something of value.
>
> It is a continuing fact of life in today's times.
>
> Ken Stubbs
>
>
>
>
>
> On 8/9/2014 8:23 AM, Deirdre Williams wrote:
>>
>> Does anyone else have an opinion on this issue? Norbert and Chaitanya
>> offer very different perspectives.
>> Currently I'm sitting in an airport using public WiFi, but I had to be
>> very well documented to get to this point.
>> Deirdre
>>
>> On 9 Aug 2014 04:46, "Chaitanya Dhareshwar" <chaitanyabd at gmail.com
>> <mailto:chaitanyabd at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     I don't see why this would be a human rights violation (speaking
>>     from India pov) given the fact that:
>>
>>     1. You need to submit ID proof when you take an internet
>>     connection at your residence/office
>>     2. You need to product ID proof while using a cyber cafe
>>
>>     So since this regulatory aspect is already put in place one would
>>     naturally expect that if there's some form of public wifi the
>>     service provider would ask for ID proof...?
>>
>>     Best,
>>
>>     *Chaitanya Dhareshwar*
>>     **
>>     Linkedin <http://in.linkedin.com/in/chaitanyabd>| Blog
>>     <http://cbd.vcio.in>| Skype: chaitanyabd
>>     Mobile: +91.9820760253 <tel:%2B91.9820760253>
>>
>>
>>     On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch
>>     <mailto:nb at bollow.ch>> wrote:
>>
>>         Reuters:
>>
>>         Russia demands Internet users show ID to access public Wifi
>>
>>
>> http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/08/us-russia-internet-idUSKBN0G81RV20140808
>>
>>         In my view this is a clear human rights violation and
>>         something that I
>>         would expect us all to be able to agree to condemn.
>>
>>         May I request the IGC coordinators to coordinate some action
>>         in regard
>>         to this matter?
>>
>>         Greetings,
>>         Norbert
>>
>>
>>         ____________________________________________________________
>>         You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>         governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>         <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
>>         To be removed from the list, visit:
>>         http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>>         For all other list information and functions, see:
>>         http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>         To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>         http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>>         Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>>
>>     ____________________________________________________________
>>     You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
>>     To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>>     For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>     To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>>     Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>
>
>
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-- 
______________________
Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya
twitter.com/lordmwesh

The best athletes never started as the best athletes.
You have to think anyway, so why not think big? - Donald Trump.
"You miss 100 percent of the shots you never take." - Wayne Gretzky.
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From kstubbs at afilias.info  Sat Aug  9 14:21:41 2014
From: kstubbs at afilias.info (Ken Stubbs)
Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2014 14:21:41 -0400
Subject: [governance] Russia demands Internet users show ID to access
 public Wifi
In-Reply-To: <CAEhPqwo2Crm9J7t8ohWcx3uMrECxEQMzTT5RNpHMiuDJBoJkSQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20140809102841.13bf17b5@quill>	<CAEP5zKQO9mAtNN7ZLPVT0sc9edXUy9gNt8VG-5H7KWP8oEh=GQ@mail.gmail.com>	<CAMz5XN54FPShV+WS=OQ3StH6aZpVvnVBc-v4vDsnw0ua8hGXnw@mail.gmail.com>	<53E625F5.5050907@afilias.info> <CAEhPqwo2Crm9J7t8ohWcx3uMrECxEQMzTT5RNpHMiuDJBoJkSQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53E666B5.9040808@afilias.info>

You miss-interpret my words here Mwendwa ..

It is a matter of definition. I was referring to a "legal entitlement".

Your interpretation of the term is clearly different than mine.

This does not make my statement disreputable.

The UN commission on human rights states

" All human rights are indivisible, whether they are civil and political 
rights, such as the right to life,
equality before the law and freedom of expression; economic, social and 
cultural rights, such as the rights to work, social security and 
education ,
or collective rights, such as the rights to development and 
self-determination, are indivisible, interrelated and interdependent. "

It would appear that some parties feel that requiring identification 
represents a "restriction to access" which
you apparently define as a denial of human rights.

I am not at all comfortable with that definition.

Ken


On 8/9/2014 1:50 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva wrote:
> Ken, the statement "use of Internet is not a human right" is
> disreputable. When we say the Internet is a human right, we mean we
> should not restrict anybody from access. But all rights have
> limitations, like requiring public wifi users to identify themselves.
> But we should not deny anybody access
>
> On 09/08/2014, Ken Stubbs <kstubbs at afilias.info> wrote:
>> Let's be frank here...
>>
>> Use of the Internet is not a human right..
>> Countries have the right to enact laws which place certain requirements
>> for Internet access.
>>
>> We can have a discussion on limitations on the requirements, equality of
>> access, etc but, like it or not,
>> this ability to require identification is a legitimate right of that
>> country or domicile.
>>
>> I see it as no different than, in certain countries (like spain, etc.) ,
>> I am required to present a passport
>> (even if I pay cash in advance) to secure a hotel room.
>>
>> In both cases,I am giving up privacy in exchange for something of value.
>>
>> It is a continuing fact of life in today's times.
>>
>> Ken Stubbs
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8/9/2014 8:23 AM, Deirdre Williams wrote:
>>> Does anyone else have an opinion on this issue? Norbert and Chaitanya
>>> offer very different perspectives.
>>> Currently I'm sitting in an airport using public WiFi, but I had to be
>>> very well documented to get to this point.
>>> Deirdre
>>>
>>> On 9 Aug 2014 04:46, "Chaitanya Dhareshwar" <chaitanyabd at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:chaitanyabd at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>      I don't see why this would be a human rights violation (speaking
>>>      from India pov) given the fact that:
>>>
>>>      1. You need to submit ID proof when you take an internet
>>>      connection at your residence/office
>>>      2. You need to product ID proof while using a cyber cafe
>>>
>>>      So since this regulatory aspect is already put in place one would
>>>      naturally expect that if there's some form of public wifi the
>>>      service provider would ask for ID proof...?
>>>
>>>      Best,
>>>
>>>      *Chaitanya Dhareshwar*
>>>      **
>>>      Linkedin <http://in.linkedin.com/in/chaitanyabd>| Blog
>>>      <http://cbd.vcio.in>| Skype: chaitanyabd
>>>      Mobile: +91.9820760253 <tel:%2B91.9820760253>
>>>
>>>
>>>      On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch
>>>      <mailto:nb at bollow.ch>> wrote:
>>>
>>>          Reuters:
>>>
>>>          Russia demands Internet users show ID to access public Wifi
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/08/us-russia-internet-idUSKBN0G81RV20140808
>>>
>>>          In my view this is a clear human rights violation and
>>>          something that I
>>>          would expect us all to be able to agree to condemn.
>>>
>>>          May I request the IGC coordinators to coordinate some action
>>>          in regard
>>>          to this matter?
>>>
>>>          Greetings,
>>>          Norbert
>>>
>>>
>>>          ____________________________________________________________
>>>          You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>          governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>>          <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
>>>          To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>          http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>>          For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>          http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>>          To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>          http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>>          Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      ____________________________________________________________
>>>      You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
>>>      To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
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>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>>      Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>
>>
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From bzs at world.std.com  Sat Aug  9 14:21:06 2014
From: bzs at world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 14:21:06 -0400
Subject: [governance] Russia demands Internet users show ID to access
 public Wifi
In-Reply-To: <CAMz5XN54FPShV+WS=OQ3StH6aZpVvnVBc-v4vDsnw0ua8hGXnw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20140809102841.13bf17b5@quill>
	<CAEP5zKQO9mAtNN7ZLPVT0sc9edXUy9gNt8VG-5H7KWP8oEh=GQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMz5XN54FPShV+WS=OQ3StH6aZpVvnVBc-v4vDsnw0ua8hGXnw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <21478.26258.422645.968954@world.std.com>


From: Deirdre Williams <williams.deirdre at gmail.com>
>Does anyone else have an opinion on this issue? Norbert and Chaitanya offer
>very different perspectives.

Perhaps Putin is trying to win some international love by cracking
down on the spam/phish gangs?

Ok, silly optimism.

I wonder how effective an infrastructure Russia has to make use of
such IDs? It's a lot of transactions running through coffee shops etc.

Or maybe the idea is really to consolidate the wi-fi hot spot industry
so only those with "sufficient" identification infrastructure can be
in this business which likely means PTTs and similar and not just ad
hoc wi-fi hotspots. All you need technically is a general purpose
internet connection and a ~US$25 wi-fi box (access point.)

P.S. In my experience criminals are very good at obtaining false id
documents. But it might discourage novices.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

The World              | bzs at TheWorld.com           | http://www.TheWorld.com
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD        | Dial-Up: US, PR, Canada
Software Tool & Die    | Public Access Internet     | SINCE 1989     *oo*

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From remmyn at gmail.com  Sat Aug  9 21:01:33 2014
From: remmyn at gmail.com (Remmy Nweke)
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 02:01:33 +0100
Subject: [governance] Russia demands Internet users show ID to access
 public Wifi
In-Reply-To: <CAEP5zKQO9mAtNN7ZLPVT0sc9edXUy9gNt8VG-5H7KWP8oEh=GQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20140809102841.13bf17b5@quill>
	<CAEP5zKQO9mAtNN7ZLPVT0sc9edXUy9gNt8VG-5H7KWP8oEh=GQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMc__ooYYJ60pMT_aNW8DWFpqEe=Rrk_0SrTtEwnaYBosY-UJw@mail.gmail.com>

Sure, I wish to back up Chaitanya as long as the public wifi would not have
some site blocking.
It is VIP to have identification of those using your network in this era of
internet warfare.
Remmy Nweke


On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 9:46 AM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar <chaitanyabd at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I don't see why this would be a human rights violation (speaking from
> India pov) given the fact that:
>
> 1. You need to submit ID proof when you take an internet connection at
> your residence/office
> 2. You need to product ID proof while using a cyber cafe
>
> So since this regulatory aspect is already put in place one would
> naturally expect that if there's some form of public wifi the service
> provider would ask for ID proof...?
>
> Best,
>
> *Chaitanya Dhareshwar*
>
> Linkedin <http://in.linkedin.com/in/chaitanyabd> | Blog
> <http://cbd.vcio.in> | Skype: chaitanyabd
> Mobile: +91.9820760253
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch> wrote:
>
>> Reuters:
>>
>> Russia demands Internet users show ID to access public Wifi
>>
>>
>> http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/08/us-russia-internet-idUSKBN0G81RV20140808
>>
>> In my view this is a clear human rights violation and something that I
>> would expect us all to be able to agree to condemn.
>>
>> May I request the IGC coordinators to coordinate some action in regard
>> to this matter?
>>
>> Greetings,
>> Norbert
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
____
REMMY NWEKE,
Lead Strategist/Group Executive Editor,
DigitalSENSE Africa Media Ltd
(publishers of) DigitalSENSE Business News;
ITREALMS, NaijaAgroNet
(Multiple-award winning medium)
Published by: DigitalSENSE Africa Media Ltd
Block F1, Shop 133 Moyosore Aboderin Plaza
Bolade Junction, Oshodi-Lagos
M: 234-8033592762, 8023122558, 8051000475,
T: @ITRealms <http://www.twitter.com/ITRealms>
[Member, NIRA Executive Board]
Author: A Decade of ICT Reportage in Nigeria
<https://www.facebook.com/adecadeofictreportageinnigeria>
NDS Forum on Internet Governance for Development (IG4D) 2014<
http://www.digitalsenseafrica.com.ng>- June 5
Nigeria IPv6 Roundtable 2014 <http://www.ipv6forumnigeria.ng> - June 6
@Welcome Centre Hotels. Register now. Email: remnekkv at gmail.com
_____________________________________________________________________
*Confidentiality Notice:* The information in this document and attachments
are confidential and may also be privileged information. It is intended
only for the use of the named recipient. Remmy Nweke does not accept legal
responsibility for the contents of this e-mail. If you are not the intended
recipient, please notify me immediately, then delete this document and do
not disclose the contents of this document to any other person, nor make
any copies. Violators may face court persecution.
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From sana.pryhod at gmail.com  Sun Aug 10 04:44:57 2014
From: sana.pryhod at gmail.com (Oksana Prykhodko)
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 11:44:57 +0300
Subject: [governance] Russia demands Internet users show ID to access
 public Wifi
In-Reply-To: <CAMc__ooYYJ60pMT_aNW8DWFpqEe=Rrk_0SrTtEwnaYBosY-UJw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20140809102841.13bf17b5@quill>
	<CAEP5zKQO9mAtNN7ZLPVT0sc9edXUy9gNt8VG-5H7KWP8oEh=GQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMc__ooYYJ60pMT_aNW8DWFpqEe=Rrk_0SrTtEwnaYBosY-UJw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+C8XC+guoSEeO+6mgurXuO50ohMdw=8GfZ2-wcanQAw38ZoXA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,

I am writing to you from Ukraine - I hope you know that we are in the stage
of undeclared war with Russia.

The issue of WiFi access is extremely important, I travelled a lot, I saw
the demand to picture yourself in Hungary to get access to Internet at
railway station. No problems.

The problem is with censorship. It was great to participate in EuroDIG this
year in Berlin. It was a disaster not to be heard at all. Few minutes ago I
did receive information that German ISP Hetzner Online AG apologized for
their attempts to block Ukrainian media Glavcom on demand of Russian
censorship.

On October 2 2014  we will organize our traditional Forum in Kiev
(Ukraine). This time we will change its title - from Media for information
society to Media for information society and against war.

We have very limited budget. We can't pay for participations of a lot of
foreign experts. We would be happy to see all of you in Kiev. At least on
remote basis))))

Best regards,
Oksana


On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 4:01 AM, Remmy Nweke <remmyn at gmail.com> wrote:

> Sure, I wish to back up Chaitanya as long as the public wifi would not
> have some site blocking.
> It is VIP to have identification of those using your network in this era
> of internet warfare.
> Remmy Nweke
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 9:46 AM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar <
> chaitanyabd at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I don't see why this would be a human rights violation (speaking from
>> India pov) given the fact that:
>>
>> 1. You need to submit ID proof when you take an internet connection at
>> your residence/office
>> 2. You need to product ID proof while using a cyber cafe
>>
>> So since this regulatory aspect is already put in place one would
>> naturally expect that if there's some form of public wifi the service
>> provider would ask for ID proof...?
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> *Chaitanya Dhareshwar*
>>
>> Linkedin <http://in.linkedin.com/in/chaitanyabd> | Blog
>> <http://cbd.vcio.in> | Skype: chaitanyabd
>> Mobile: +91.9820760253
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch> wrote:
>>
>>>  Reuters:
>>>
>>> Russia demands Internet users show ID to access public Wifi
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/08/us-russia-internet-idUSKBN0G81RV20140808
>>>
>>> In my view this is a clear human rights violation and something that I
>>> would expect us all to be able to agree to condemn.
>>>
>>> May I request the IGC coordinators to coordinate some action in regard
>>> to this matter?
>>>
>>> Greetings,
>>> Norbert
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> ____
> REMMY NWEKE,
> Lead Strategist/Group Executive Editor,
> DigitalSENSE Africa Media Ltd
> (publishers of) DigitalSENSE Business News;
> ITREALMS, NaijaAgroNet
> (Multiple-award winning medium)
> Published by: DigitalSENSE Africa Media Ltd
> Block F1, Shop 133 Moyosore Aboderin Plaza
> Bolade Junction, Oshodi-Lagos
> M: 234-8033592762, 8023122558, 8051000475,
> T: @ITRealms <http://www.twitter.com/ITRealms>
> [Member, NIRA Executive Board]
> Author: A Decade of ICT Reportage in Nigeria
> <https://www.facebook.com/adecadeofictreportageinnigeria>
> NDS Forum on Internet Governance for Development (IG4D) 2014<
> http://www.digitalsenseafrica.com.ng>- June 5
> Nigeria IPv6 Roundtable 2014 <http://www.ipv6forumnigeria.ng> - June 6
> @Welcome Centre Hotels. Register now. Email: remnekkv at gmail.com
> _____________________________________________________________________
> *Confidentiality Notice:* The information in this document and attachments
> are confidential and may also be privileged information. It is intended
> only for the use of the named recipient. Remmy Nweke does not accept legal
> responsibility for the contents of this e-mail. If you are not the
> intended
> recipient, please notify me immediately, then delete this document and do
> not disclose the contents of this document to any other person, nor make
> any copies. Violators may face court persecution.
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
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____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From dvbirve at yandex.ru  Sun Aug 10 10:41:57 2014
From: dvbirve at yandex.ru (Shcherbovich Andrey)
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 18:41:57 +0400
Subject: [governance] Russia demands Internet users show ID to access
 public Wifi
In-Reply-To: <20140809102841.13bf17b5@quill>
References: <20140809102841.13bf17b5@quill>
Message-ID: <9091511407681717@web25h.yandex.ru>



09.08.2014, 12:29, "Norbert Bollow" <nb at bollow.ch>:
> Reuters:
>
> Russia demands Internet users show ID to access public Wifi
>
> http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/08/us-russia-internet-idUSKBN0G81RV20140808
>
> In my view this is a clear human rights violation and something that I
> would expect us all to be able to agree to condemn.
>
> May I request the IGC coordinators to coordinate some action in regard
> to this matter?
>
> Greetings,
> Norbert
>
> ,
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
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     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From dvbirve at yandex.ru  Sun Aug 10 10:44:36 2014
From: dvbirve at yandex.ru (Shcherbovich Andrey)
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 18:44:36 +0400
Subject: [governance] Russia demands Internet users show ID to access
 public Wifi
In-Reply-To: <20140809102841.13bf17b5@quill>
References: <20140809102841.13bf17b5@quill>
Message-ID: <9095141407681876@web25h.yandex.ru>

Dear Norbert and colleagues!

Will be glad to discuss this with the interested in Istanbul.

With kind regards, Andrey

09.08.2014, 12:29, "Norbert Bollow" <nb at bollow.ch>:
> Reuters:
>
> Russia demands Internet users show ID to access public Wifi
>
> http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/08/us-russia-internet-idUSKBN0G81RV20140808
>
> In my view this is a clear human rights violation and something that I
> would expect us all to be able to agree to condemn.
>
> May I request the IGC coordinators to coordinate some action in regard
> to this matter?
>
> Greetings,
> Norbert
>
> ,
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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To be removed from the list, visit:
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For all other list information and functions, see:
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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From analia.aspis at gmail.com  Sun Aug 10 11:24:06 2014
From: analia.aspis at gmail.com (Analia Aspis)
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 12:24:06 -0300
Subject: [governance] Russia demands Internet users show ID to access
 public Wifi
In-Reply-To: <CA+C8XC+guoSEeO+6mgurXuO50ohMdw=8GfZ2-wcanQAw38ZoXA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20140809102841.13bf17b5@quill>
	<CAEP5zKQO9mAtNN7ZLPVT0sc9edXUy9gNt8VG-5H7KWP8oEh=GQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMc__ooYYJ60pMT_aNW8DWFpqEe=Rrk_0SrTtEwnaYBosY-UJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+C8XC+guoSEeO+6mgurXuO50ohMdw=8GfZ2-wcanQAw38ZoXA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABi6_T_JugqhDu4w7h2b85r=2ZWam8HQ+cJeELuCtTK1EFcvWA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Oksana,

Greetings from Argentina. Will you have streaming for the event?

Kind regards,
Analía Aspis


On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 5:44 AM, Oksana Prykhodko <sana.pryhod at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> I am writing to you from Ukraine - I hope you know that we are in the
> stage of undeclared war with Russia.
>
> The issue of WiFi access is extremely important, I travelled a lot, I saw
> the demand to picture yourself in Hungary to get access to Internet at
> railway station. No problems.
>
> The problem is with censorship. It was great to participate in EuroDIG
> this year in Berlin. It was a disaster not to be heard at all. Few minutes
> ago I did receive information that German ISP Hetzner Online AG
> apologized for their attempts to block Ukrainian media Glavcom on demand of
> Russian censorship.
>
> On October 2 2014  we will organize our traditional Forum in Kiev
> (Ukraine). This time we will change its title - from Media for information
> society to Media for information society and against war.
>
> We have very limited budget. We can't pay for participations of a lot of
> foreign experts. We would be happy to see all of you in Kiev. At least on
> remote basis))))
>
> Best regards,
> Oksana
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 4:01 AM, Remmy Nweke <remmyn at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Sure, I wish to back up Chaitanya as long as the public wifi would not
>> have some site blocking.
>> It is VIP to have identification of those using your network in this era
>> of internet warfare.
>> Remmy Nweke
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 9:46 AM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar <
>> chaitanyabd at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't see why this would be a human rights violation (speaking from
>>> India pov) given the fact that:
>>>
>>> 1. You need to submit ID proof when you take an internet connection at
>>> your residence/office
>>> 2. You need to product ID proof while using a cyber cafe
>>>
>>> So since this regulatory aspect is already put in place one would
>>> naturally expect that if there's some form of public wifi the service
>>> provider would ask for ID proof...?
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> *Chaitanya Dhareshwar*
>>>
>>> Linkedin <http://in.linkedin.com/in/chaitanyabd> | Blog
>>> <http://cbd.vcio.in> | Skype: chaitanyabd
>>> Mobile: +91.9820760253
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch> wrote:
>>>
>>>>  Reuters:
>>>>
>>>> Russia demands Internet users show ID to access public Wifi
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/08/us-russia-internet-idUSKBN0G81RV20140808
>>>>
>>>> In my view this is a clear human rights violation and something that I
>>>> would expect us all to be able to agree to condemn.
>>>>
>>>> May I request the IGC coordinators to coordinate some action in regard
>>>> to this matter?
>>>>
>>>> Greetings,
>>>> Norbert
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>>
>>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>>
>>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ____
>> REMMY NWEKE,
>> Lead Strategist/Group Executive Editor,
>> DigitalSENSE Africa Media Ltd
>> (publishers of) DigitalSENSE Business News;
>> ITREALMS, NaijaAgroNet
>> (Multiple-award winning medium)
>> Published by: DigitalSENSE Africa Media Ltd
>> Block F1, Shop 133 Moyosore Aboderin Plaza
>> Bolade Junction, Oshodi-Lagos
>> M: 234-8033592762, 8023122558, 8051000475,
>> T: @ITRealms <http://www.twitter.com/ITRealms>
>> [Member, NIRA Executive Board]
>> Author: A Decade of ICT Reportage in Nigeria
>> <https://www.facebook.com/adecadeofictreportageinnigeria>
>> NDS Forum on Internet Governance for Development (IG4D) 2014<
>> http://www.digitalsenseafrica.com.ng>- June 5
>> Nigeria IPv6 Roundtable 2014 <http://www.ipv6forumnigeria.ng> - June 6
>> @Welcome Centre Hotels. Register now. Email: remnekkv at gmail.com
>> _____________________________________________________________________
>> *Confidentiality Notice:* The information in this document and
>> attachments
>> are confidential and may also be privileged information. It is intended
>> only for the use of the named recipient. Remmy Nweke does not accept
>> legal
>> responsibility for the contents of this e-mail. If you are not the
>> intended
>> recipient, please notify me immediately, then delete this document and do
>> not disclose the contents of this document to any other person, nor make
>> any copies. Violators may face court persecution.
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
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____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
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     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From sana.pryhod at gmail.com  Mon Aug 11 02:11:38 2014
From: sana.pryhod at gmail.com (Oksana Prykhodko)
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 09:11:38 +0300
Subject: [governance] Russia demands Internet users show ID to access
 public Wifi
In-Reply-To: <CABi6_T_JugqhDu4w7h2b85r=2ZWam8HQ+cJeELuCtTK1EFcvWA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20140809102841.13bf17b5@quill>
	<CAEP5zKQO9mAtNN7ZLPVT0sc9edXUy9gNt8VG-5H7KWP8oEh=GQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMc__ooYYJ60pMT_aNW8DWFpqEe=Rrk_0SrTtEwnaYBosY-UJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+C8XC+guoSEeO+6mgurXuO50ohMdw=8GfZ2-wcanQAw38ZoXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABi6_T_JugqhDu4w7h2b85r=2ZWam8HQ+cJeELuCtTK1EFcvWA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+C8XC+DW-+h1rqmJzjUnO+vLzYhSObSu-Thkjt5aTGFU+WU7w@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Analia,
I will provide details on streaming later.
Best regards,
Oksana
On Sunday, August 10, 2014, Analia Aspis <analia.aspis at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Oksana,
> Greetings from Argentina. Will you have streaming for the event?
> Kind regards,
> Analía Aspis
>
> On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 5:44 AM, Oksana Prykhodko <sana.pryhod at gmail.com>
wrote:
>>
>> Dear all,
>> I am writing to you from Ukraine - I hope you know that we are in the
stage of undeclared war with Russia.
>> The issue of WiFi access is extremely important, I travelled a lot, I
saw the demand to picture yourself in Hungary to get access to Internet at
railway station. No problems.
>> The problem is with censorship. It was great to participate in EuroDIG
this year in Berlin. It was a disaster not to be heard at all. Few minutes
ago I did receive information that German ISP Hetzner Online AG apologized
for their attempts to block Ukrainian media Glavcom on demand of Russian
censorship.
>> On October 2 2014  we will organize our traditional Forum in Kiev
(Ukraine). This time we will change its title - from Media for information
society to Media for information society and against war.
>> We have very limited budget. We can't pay for participations of a lot of
foreign experts. We would be happy to see all of you in Kiev. At least on
remote basis))))
>> Best regards,
>> Oksana
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 4:01 AM, Remmy Nweke <remmyn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Sure, I wish to back up Chaitanya as long as the public wifi would not
have some site blocking.
>>> It is VIP to have identification of those using your network in this
era of internet warfare.
>>> Remmy Nweke
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 9:46 AM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar <
chaitanyabd at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I don't see why this would be a human rights violation (speaking from
India pov) given the fact that:
>>>> 1. You need to submit ID proof when you take an internet connection at
your residence/office
>>>> 2. You need to product ID proof while using a cyber cafe
>>>> So since this regulatory aspect is already put in place one would
naturally expect that if there's some form of public wifi the service
provider would ask for ID proof...?
>>>> Best,
>>>> Chaitanya Dhareshwar
>>>> Linkedin | Blog | Skype: chaitanyabd
>>>> Mobile: +91.9820760253
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Reuters:
>>>>>
>>>>> Russia demands Internet users show ID to access public Wifi
>>>>>
>>>>>
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/08/us-russia-internet-idUSKBN0G81RV20140808
>>>>>
>>>>> In my view this is a clear human rights violation and something that I
>>>>> would expect us all to be able to agree to condemn.
>>>>>
>>>>> May I request the IGC coordinators to coordinate some action in regard
>>>>> to this matter?
>>>>>
>>>>> Greetings,
>>>>> Norbert
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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>>>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>>>
>>>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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>>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ____
>>> REMMY NWEKE,
>>> Lead Strategist/Group Executive Editor,
>>> DigitalSENSE Africa Media Ltd
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>>> ITREALMS, NaijaAgroNet
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http://www.digitalsenseafrica.com.ng>- June 5
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>>
>>
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From jlfullsack at orange.fr  Mon Aug 11 08:47:20 2014
From: jlfullsack at orange.fr (Jean-Louis FULLSACK)
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 14:47:20 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [governance] WSIS 10+
Message-ID: <983253854.9303.1407761240616.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f26>

Dear all
  
I refer to my mail I sent earlier on the list (August 4th) for replying to Wolfgang who asserts that the CS Declaration at the Geneva WSIS Summit (2003)  as an "official WSIS outcome document". Unfortunately this doesn't reflect the reality as I justified it in my earlier mail. See its content hereafter :

  


    Wolfgang wrote :

 

> One of the big achievements in the WSIS process was that civil society got a voice in the process. A Milestone was the CS WSIS Declaratzion from December 2003 which was handed over to the president of the first summit, WSIS 1.>

  

This enthousiastic view on the civil society's voice at WSIS doesn't reflect the reality.

 
First, the "milestone" CS WSIS Declaration was in fact a document resulting from a schism in the "WSIS multistakeholder community", precisely decided by the CS Plenary during PrepCom 3b because the very voice of CS wasn't sufficiently taken in account during the PrepCom process. Remember Adama Samassekou's desperate but vain efforts to convince the CS Plenary to join the official Geneva Declaration !

Second, the CS Declaration, despite the assertion of the WSIS Secretariate, isn't considered as an official WSIS outcome document. The latter are the WSIS Declaration of Principles and the Geneva Action Plan, as well as the Tunis Commitment and the Tunis Agenda for the Information Society (see http://www.itu.int/wsis/outcome/booklet/index-fr.html ). 

  

In a nutshell : If "CS got a voice", it's expression was at best considered to be pseudo-official ! This is pure WSIS/ITU multistakeholderism !

 

 (End of mail wording)


 

 

Therefore we should base any further discussion about WSIS+10 on this reality rather than on a "sweet dream" ...

 

Best regards


 

Jean-Louis Fullsack


  


 

 

 

 




 

 

> Message du 07/08/14 03:31
> De : "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" 
> A : "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" , "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" 
> Copie à : "Daniel Kalchev" 
> Objet : Re: [governance] WSIS 10+
> 
>


Hi Wolfgang,
> 
>
>From the Pacific, we can shoot the proposal down as we can secure at least 16 votes in the UNGA to support enhanced civil society input.
> 
> Sad that it has to come to this.
> 
>
Sala
>

> 
>
On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 8:46 PM, "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang"  wrote:
>
http://www.outlookindia.com/news/article/UN-Adopts-Resolution-on-Bridging-Digital-Divide/852511
> 
> Outlook India:
> The resolution decided that the overall review will be concluded in December 2015 by a two-day General Assembly high-level meeting to be preceded by an inter-governmental preparatory process that also takes into account inputs from all relevant stakeholders of WSIS.  The intergovernmental negotiation process would begin in June 2015 and lead to an inter-governmentally agreed outcome document for adoption at the UNGA meeting. The process retains the ownership of the preparatory meetings and the final outcome document with member states alone. Mukerji said the resolution ensures that leaders, "at the highest possible level" will meet at the high-level plenary meeting in December next year to adopt the outcome of the intergovernmental negotiations.
> 
> Wolfgang:
> One of the big achievements in the WSIS process was that civil society got a voice in the process. A Milestone was the CS WSIS Declaratzion from December 2003 which was handed over to the president of the first summit, WSIS 1. It became an official document. The Tunis Agenda confirmed and enhanced the role of civil society. As you can see from the text above, ten years later this process is back in the hands of "governments only". The final outcome document will be with member states only by taking into account inputs from all relevant stakeholders (which sounds like a joke with the experiences of a enhanced communicartion and cooperation over the last ten years, including the UNCSTD WGs. Should civil society write a letter to UN Secretary General Ban Kin Moon?
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
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> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> 
>


>



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From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de  Mon Aug 11 12:26:10 2014
From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang=22?=)
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 18:26:10 +0200
Subject: AW: [governance] WSIS 10+
References: <983253854.9303.1407761240616.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f26>
Message-ID:  <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A80164254F@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>


Jean Louis is right, the Geneva CS Declaration is not an "official document". However the Geneva summit "took note" of the document and the CS declaration is still listed under the WSIS documents on the ITU Website. http://www.itu.int/wsis/geneva/index.html . It is qualified there as " Civil Society Declaration: handed out to the President of the Summit at the last Plenary meeting on 12 December 2003". This was the compromise. Civil Society did not walk out in Geneva but got for its own declaration an "official recognition" in form of the agreed procedure of an "accepted handover of the document to the president". Such an "handover" of a non-governmental document was new within the procedures of an intergovernmental summit meeting (as WSIS I) and seen - from the CS perspective - as a "door opener" for next steps. 

Now it seems that WSIS 10+ is sailing backwards and we are where we have been before PrepCom1 (2002). Obviously governments reject "to share decision making", as agreed (and promised) in the Tunis Agenda with regard to Internet Governance. Insofar we should make noise for a deeper CS involvement into the negotiations for the final NY document.

One option for Civil Society in preparing for the WSIS 10+ Summit in December 2015 could be to have its own (independent) WSIS Review. This could lead to an own final document. Such a document could become part of the "package" of the planned NY WSIS 10+ documents in December 2015.  As a minimum we should call for the same procedure we had in Geneva. Otherwise Civil Socity should make clear that it will not accept to be "used" to give WSIS 10+ an image of "multistakeholder involvment" and reject "invitations" to be consulted in the preparatory phase for the NY Meeting as long as this "invitations" are not more than "window dressing" and do not have substantial and measurable input into the final documents.  

Best wishes

wolfgang


Dear all
  
I refer to my mail I sent earlier on the list (August 4th) for replying to Wolfgang who asserts that the CS Declaration at the Geneva WSIS Summit (2003)  as an "official WSIS outcome document". Unfortunately this doesn't reflect the reality as I justified it in my earlier mail. See its content hereafter :

  


    Wolfgang wrote :

 

> One of the big achievements in the WSIS process was that civil society got a voice in the process. A Milestone was the CS WSIS Declaratzion from December 2003 which was handed over to the president of the first summit, WSIS 1.>

  

This enthousiastic view on the civil society's voice at WSIS doesn't reflect the reality.

 
First, the "milestone" CS WSIS Declaration was in fact a document resulting from a schism in the "WSIS multistakeholder community", precisely decided by the CS Plenary during PrepCom 3b because the very voice of CS wasn't sufficiently taken in account during the PrepCom process. Remember Adama Samassekou's desperate but vain efforts to convince the CS Plenary to join the official Geneva Declaration !

Second, the CS Declaration, despite the assertion of the WSIS Secretariate, isn't considered as an official WSIS outcome document. The latter are the WSIS Declaration of Principles and the Geneva Action Plan, as well as the Tunis Commitment and the Tunis Agenda for the Information Society (see http://www.itu.int/wsis/outcome/booklet/index-fr.html ). 

  

In a nutshell : If "CS got a voice", it's expression was at best considered to be pseudo-official ! This is pure WSIS/ITU multistakeholderism !

 

 (End of mail wording)


 

 

Therefore we should base any further discussion about WSIS+10 on this reality rather than on a "sweet dream" ...

 

Best regards


 

Jean-Louis Fullsack


  


 

 

 

 




 

 

> Message du 07/08/14 03:31
> De : "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" 
> A : "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" , "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" 
> Copie à : "Daniel Kalchev" 
> Objet : Re: [governance] WSIS 10+
> 
>


Hi Wolfgang,
> 
>
>From the Pacific, we can shoot the proposal down as we can secure at least 16 votes in the UNGA to support enhanced civil society input.
> 
> Sad that it has to come to this.
> 
>
Sala
>

> 
>
On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 8:46 PM, "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang"  wrote:
>
http://www.outlookindia.com/news/article/UN-Adopts-Resolution-on-Bridging-Digital-Divide/852511
> 
> Outlook India:
> The resolution decided that the overall review will be concluded in December 2015 by a two-day General Assembly high-level meeting to be preceded by an inter-governmental preparatory process that also takes into account inputs from all relevant stakeholders of WSIS.  The intergovernmental negotiation process would begin in June 2015 and lead to an inter-governmentally agreed outcome document for adoption at the UNGA meeting. The process retains the ownership of the preparatory meetings and the final outcome document with member states alone. Mukerji said the resolution ensures that leaders, "at the highest possible level" will meet at the high-level plenary meeting in December next year to adopt the outcome of the intergovernmental negotiations.
> 
> Wolfgang:
> One of the big achievements in the WSIS process was that civil society got a voice in the process. A Milestone was the CS WSIS Declaratzion from December 2003 which was handed over to the president of the first summit, WSIS 1. It became an official document. The Tunis Agenda confirmed and enhanced the role of civil society. As you can see from the text above, ten years later this process is back in the hands of "governments only". The final outcome document will be with member states only by taking into account inputs from all relevant stakeholders (which sounds like a joke with the experiences of a enhanced communicartion and cooperation over the last ten years, including the UNCSTD WGs. Should civil society write a letter to UN Secretary General Ban Kin Moon?
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> 
>


>



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From gurstein at gmail.com  Mon Aug 11 13:04:47 2014
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 10:04:47 -0700
Subject: [governance] WSIS 10+
In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A80164254F@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
References: <983253854.9303.1407761240616.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f26> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A80164254F@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
Message-ID: <056c01cfb586$5c665850$153308f0$@gmail.com>

Alongside or even in front of these discussions about the role of civil
society in these processes shouldn't there be an equivalent discussion about
what the content of the contribution from civil society might be i.e. what
positions civil society might be advocating.  

Once that content is articulated then the efforts to make that content heard
and effectual might be easier and have wider resonance in broader civil
society circles and even beyond.

M

-----Original Message-----
From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
[mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of "Kleinwächter,
Wolfgang"
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 9:26 AM
To: Jean-Louis FULLSACK; governance at lists.igcaucus.org;
SalanietaT.Tamanikaiwaimaro
Cc: DanielKalchev
Subject: AW: [governance] WSIS 10+


Jean Louis is right, the Geneva CS Declaration is not an "official
document". However the Geneva summit "took note" of the document and the CS
declaration is still listed under the WSIS documents on the ITU Website.
http://www.itu.int/wsis/geneva/index.html . It is qualified there as " Civil
Society Declaration: handed out to the President of the Summit at the last
Plenary meeting on 12 December 2003". This was the compromise. Civil Society
did not walk out in Geneva but got for its own declaration an "official
recognition" in form of the agreed procedure of an "accepted handover of the
document to the president". Such an "handover" of a non-governmental
document was new within the procedures of an intergovernmental summit
meeting (as WSIS I) and seen - from the CS perspective - as a "door opener"
for next steps. 

Now it seems that WSIS 10+ is sailing backwards and we are where we have
been before PrepCom1 (2002). Obviously governments reject "to share decision
making", as agreed (and promised) in the Tunis Agenda with regard to
Internet Governance. Insofar we should make noise for a deeper CS
involvement into the negotiations for the final NY document.

One option for Civil Society in preparing for the WSIS 10+ Summit in
December 2015 could be to have its own (independent) WSIS Review. This could
lead to an own final document. Such a document could become part of the
"package" of the planned NY WSIS 10+ documents in December 2015.  As a
minimum we should call for the same procedure we had in Geneva. Otherwise
Civil Socity should make clear that it will not accept to be "used" to give
WSIS 10+ an image of "multistakeholder involvment" and reject "invitations"
to be consulted in the preparatory phase for the NY Meeting as long as this
"invitations" are not more than "window dressing" and do not have
substantial and measurable input into the final documents.  

Best wishes

wolfgang


Dear all
  
I refer to my mail I sent earlier on the list (August 4th) for replying to
Wolfgang who asserts that the CS Declaration at the Geneva WSIS Summit
(2003)  as an "official WSIS outcome document". Unfortunately this doesn't
reflect the reality as I justified it in my earlier mail. See its content
hereafter :

  


    Wolfgang wrote :

 

> One of the big achievements in the WSIS process was that civil society got
a voice in the process. A Milestone was the CS WSIS Declaratzion from
December 2003 which was handed over to the president of the first summit,
WSIS 1.>

  

This enthousiastic view on the civil society's voice at WSIS doesn't reflect
the reality.

 
First, the "milestone" CS WSIS Declaration was in fact a document resulting
from a schism in the "WSIS multistakeholder community", precisely decided by
the CS Plenary during PrepCom 3b because the very voice of CS wasn't
sufficiently taken in account during the PrepCom process. Remember Adama
Samassekou's desperate but vain efforts to convince the CS Plenary to join
the official Geneva Declaration !

Second, the CS Declaration, despite the assertion of the WSIS Secretariate,
isn't considered as an official WSIS outcome document. The latter are the
WSIS Declaration of Principles and the Geneva Action Plan, as well as the
Tunis Commitment and the Tunis Agenda for the Information Society (see
http://www.itu.int/wsis/outcome/booklet/index-fr.html ). 

  

In a nutshell : If "CS got a voice", it's expression was at best considered
to be pseudo-official ! This is pure WSIS/ITU multistakeholderism !

 

 (End of mail wording)


 

 

Therefore we should base any further discussion about WSIS+10 on this
reality rather than on a "sweet dream" ...

 

Best regards


 

Jean-Louis Fullsack


  


 

 

 

 




 

 

> Message du 07/08/14 03:31
> De : "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" 
> A : "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" , "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" 
> Copie à : "Daniel Kalchev" 
> Objet : Re: [governance] WSIS 10+
> 
>


Hi Wolfgang,
> 
>
>From the Pacific, we can shoot the proposal down as we can secure at least
16 votes in the UNGA to support enhanced civil society input.
> 
> Sad that it has to come to this.
> 
>
Sala
>

> 
>
On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 8:46 PM, "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang"  wrote:
>
http://www.outlookindia.com/news/article/UN-Adopts-Resolution-on-Bridging-Di
gital-Divide/852511
> 
> Outlook India:
> The resolution decided that the overall review will be concluded in
December 2015 by a two-day General Assembly high-level meeting to be
preceded by an inter-governmental preparatory process that also takes into
account inputs from all relevant stakeholders of WSIS.  The
intergovernmental negotiation process would begin in June 2015 and lead to
an inter-governmentally agreed outcome document for adoption at the UNGA
meeting. The process retains the ownership of the preparatory meetings and
the final outcome document with member states alone. Mukerji said the
resolution ensures that leaders, "at the highest possible level" will meet
at the high-level plenary meeting in December next year to adopt the outcome
of the intergovernmental negotiations.
> 
> Wolfgang:
> One of the big achievements in the WSIS process was that civil society got
a voice in the process. A Milestone was the CS WSIS Declaratzion from
December 2003 which was handed over to the president of the first summit,
WSIS 1. It became an official document. The Tunis Agenda confirmed and
enhanced the role of civil society. As you can see from the text above, ten
years later this process is back in the hands of "governments only". The
final outcome document will be with member states only by taking into
account inputs from all relevant stakeholders (which sounds like a joke with
the experiences of a enhanced communicartion and cooperation over the last
ten years, including the UNCSTD WGs. Should civil society write a letter to
UN Secretary General Ban Kin Moon?
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> 
>


>



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From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de  Mon Aug 11 13:08:53 2014
From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang=22?=)
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 19:08:53 +0200
Subject: AW: [governance] WSIS 10+
References: <983253854.9303.1407761240616.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f26>
 <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A80164254F@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
 <056c01cfb586$5c665850$153308f0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID:  <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A801642550@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>

1+ to Michael

w



-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org im Auftrag von michael gurstein
Gesendet: Mo 11.08.2014 19:04
An: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Kleinwächter, Wolfgang; 'Jean-Louis FULLSACK'; 'SalanietaT.Tamanikaiwaimaro'
Cc: 'DanielKalchev'
Betreff: RE: [governance] WSIS 10+
 
Alongside or even in front of these discussions about the role of civil
society in these processes shouldn't there be an equivalent discussion about
what the content of the contribution from civil society might be i.e. what
positions civil society might be advocating.  

Once that content is articulated then the efforts to make that content heard
and effectual might be easier and have wider resonance in broader civil
society circles and even beyond.

M

-----Original Message-----
From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
[mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of "Kleinwächter,
Wolfgang"
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 9:26 AM
To: Jean-Louis FULLSACK; governance at lists.igcaucus.org;
SalanietaT.Tamanikaiwaimaro
Cc: DanielKalchev
Subject: AW: [governance] WSIS 10+


Jean Louis is right, the Geneva CS Declaration is not an "official
document". However the Geneva summit "took note" of the document and the CS
declaration is still listed under the WSIS documents on the ITU Website.
http://www.itu.int/wsis/geneva/index.html . It is qualified there as " Civil
Society Declaration: handed out to the President of the Summit at the last
Plenary meeting on 12 December 2003". This was the compromise. Civil Society
did not walk out in Geneva but got for its own declaration an "official
recognition" in form of the agreed procedure of an "accepted handover of the
document to the president". Such an "handover" of a non-governmental
document was new within the procedures of an intergovernmental summit
meeting (as WSIS I) and seen - from the CS perspective - as a "door opener"
for next steps. 

Now it seems that WSIS 10+ is sailing backwards and we are where we have
been before PrepCom1 (2002). Obviously governments reject "to share decision
making", as agreed (and promised) in the Tunis Agenda with regard to
Internet Governance. Insofar we should make noise for a deeper CS
involvement into the negotiations for the final NY document.

One option for Civil Society in preparing for the WSIS 10+ Summit in
December 2015 could be to have its own (independent) WSIS Review. This could
lead to an own final document. Such a document could become part of the
"package" of the planned NY WSIS 10+ documents in December 2015.  As a
minimum we should call for the same procedure we had in Geneva. Otherwise
Civil Socity should make clear that it will not accept to be "used" to give
WSIS 10+ an image of "multistakeholder involvment" and reject "invitations"
to be consulted in the preparatory phase for the NY Meeting as long as this
"invitations" are not more than "window dressing" and do not have
substantial and measurable input into the final documents.  

Best wishes

wolfgang


Dear all
  
I refer to my mail I sent earlier on the list (August 4th) for replying to
Wolfgang who asserts that the CS Declaration at the Geneva WSIS Summit
(2003)  as an "official WSIS outcome document". Unfortunately this doesn't
reflect the reality as I justified it in my earlier mail. See its content
hereafter :

  


    Wolfgang wrote :

 

> One of the big achievements in the WSIS process was that civil society got
a voice in the process. A Milestone was the CS WSIS Declaratzion from
December 2003 which was handed over to the president of the first summit,
WSIS 1.>

  

This enthousiastic view on the civil society's voice at WSIS doesn't reflect
the reality.

 
First, the "milestone" CS WSIS Declaration was in fact a document resulting
from a schism in the "WSIS multistakeholder community", precisely decided by
the CS Plenary during PrepCom 3b because the very voice of CS wasn't
sufficiently taken in account during the PrepCom process. Remember Adama
Samassekou's desperate but vain efforts to convince the CS Plenary to join
the official Geneva Declaration !

Second, the CS Declaration, despite the assertion of the WSIS Secretariate,
isn't considered as an official WSIS outcome document. The latter are the
WSIS Declaration of Principles and the Geneva Action Plan, as well as the
Tunis Commitment and the Tunis Agenda for the Information Society (see
http://www.itu.int/wsis/outcome/booklet/index-fr.html ). 

  

In a nutshell : If "CS got a voice", it's expression was at best considered
to be pseudo-official ! This is pure WSIS/ITU multistakeholderism !

 

 (End of mail wording)


 

 

Therefore we should base any further discussion about WSIS+10 on this
reality rather than on a "sweet dream" ...

 

Best regards


 

Jean-Louis Fullsack


  


 

 

 

 




 

 

> Message du 07/08/14 03:31
> De : "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" 
> A : "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" , "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" 
> Copie à : "Daniel Kalchev" 
> Objet : Re: [governance] WSIS 10+
> 
>


Hi Wolfgang,
> 
>
>From the Pacific, we can shoot the proposal down as we can secure at least
16 votes in the UNGA to support enhanced civil society input.
> 
> Sad that it has to come to this.
> 
>
Sala
>

> 
>
On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 8:46 PM, "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang"  wrote:
>
http://www.outlookindia.com/news/article/UN-Adopts-Resolution-on-Bridging-Di
gital-Divide/852511
> 
> Outlook India:
> The resolution decided that the overall review will be concluded in
December 2015 by a two-day General Assembly high-level meeting to be
preceded by an inter-governmental preparatory process that also takes into
account inputs from all relevant stakeholders of WSIS.  The
intergovernmental negotiation process would begin in June 2015 and lead to
an inter-governmentally agreed outcome document for adoption at the UNGA
meeting. The process retains the ownership of the preparatory meetings and
the final outcome document with member states alone. Mukerji said the
resolution ensures that leaders, "at the highest possible level" will meet
at the high-level plenary meeting in December next year to adopt the outcome
of the intergovernmental negotiations.
> 
> Wolfgang:
> One of the big achievements in the WSIS process was that civil society got
a voice in the process. A Milestone was the CS WSIS Declaratzion from
December 2003 which was handed over to the president of the first summit,
WSIS 1. It became an official document. The Tunis Agenda confirmed and
enhanced the role of civil society. As you can see from the text above, ten
years later this process is back in the hands of "governments only". The
final outcome document will be with member states only by taking into
account inputs from all relevant stakeholders (which sounds like a joke with
the experiences of a enhanced communicartion and cooperation over the last
ten years, including the UNCSTD WGs. Should civil society write a letter to
UN Secretary General Ban Kin Moon?
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
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> 
>


>



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From analia.aspis at gmail.com  Mon Aug 11 22:31:13 2014
From: analia.aspis at gmail.com (Analia Aspis)
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 23:31:13 -0300
Subject: [governance] WSIS 10+
In-Reply-To: <CAJqNAHAvqz8ju=MFiFeQrZiFm_0chcNU8QG1ZxVMtt5SHKXptA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <53B928BE.3040603@itforchange.net>
	<53B93A3B.6090707@ITforChange.net>
	<53DB56F7.3070702@digsys.bg>
	<a8ce3c8ab2dc4efc8c97c73b09608e69@EX13-MBX-07.ad.syr.edu>
	<2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A801642514@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
	<4D8B9C3E-9136-4DE7-A295-57C742166B11@theglobaljournal.net>
	<53DFA103.2090808@digsys.bg>
	<9B82DF7F-8579-43E6-BFCC-62A2C3764EDB@theglobaljournal.net>
	<CAJqNAHAvqz8ju=MFiFeQrZiFm_0chcNU8QG1ZxVMtt5SHKXptA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABi6_T_w356qVoXMabHDWuPBk+DvA55XYD9vjPW1FthrBL57yw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,

Do you have a record of the session?

Kind regards,
Analía


On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 3:52 PM, Anja Kovacs <anja at internetdemocracy.in>
wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> For those who are interested, there is a plenary session on "Developing
> the information society beyond 2015: lessons from the WSIS+10 Review and
> NETmundial", organised by the Internet Democracy Project, tomorrow, 6
> August, at 1 pm IST at the APrIGF. I have pasted the full details of the
> plenary below this message.
>
> Remote participation should be available, (see
> http://2014.rigf.asia/remote/) though I heard that unfortunately today
> there were quite a few problems with it.
>
> And +1 to the proposals to write a letter to the UN Secretary General, as
> well as to the USG and, I would propose, to Fadi Chehade, who seems to have
> become the undisputed cheerleader of the USG position now that the latter
> in many ways stands publicly discredited when it comes to "Internet
> freedom" and multistakeholderism.
>
> As for Parminder's question "Did we ever ask for the WSIS model (of
> course with evolutionary improvements) for WSIS plus 10 review. No, no one
> did" - I thought that I share again this letter that some of us (including
> some who have been following the WSIS+10 Review quite closely) wrote to the
> facilitators of the governmental negotiation processes in February. I think
> it quite clearly disproves the points that Parminder was making in his
> message above.
>
>
> http://internetdemocracy.in/2014/02/letter-to-co-facilitators-calling-for-civil-society-input-into-negotiations-on-wsis10-modalities/
>
> Best regards,
> Anja
>
> *Title:* "*Developing the information society beyond 2015: lessons from
> the WSIS+10 Review and NETmundial*"
>
> Format: Panel discussion
>
> Invited panelists:
>
> Mr. Adam Peake - GLOCOM
> Dr. Anja Kovacs - Internet Democracy Project
> Dr. Govind - NIXI
> Mr. Hardeep Singh Puri - Bharatiya Janata Party and formerly Government of
> India
> Mr. Paul Wilson - APNIC
> Mr. Rajnesh Singh - ISOC
>
> Moderator: Prof. Ang Peng Hwa - Nanyan Technological University, Singapore
>
> Abstract:
>
> In 2015 the WSIS is up for an overall review. Though strictly speaking the
> WSIS was supposed to be about ICTs and development, the Internet governance
> issues that are contained in it have obtained a growing role. In fact,
> during the multistakeholder WSIS+10 MPP meetings, the debate on many more
> 'hard core' development issues often seemed to be held hostage to the IG
> debate, in that there was a reluctance to agree on new language for fear of
> the possible wider implications of such language.
>
> The ICTs for development agenda continues, however, to be of great
> importance for many countries in our region. This then raises the question
> of how the development agenda contained in the WSIS can be revitalised.
> What shape do we want the WSIS agenda and process to take beyond 2015? What
> shape do the overall review in 2015 and its preparatory processes need to
> take for this to be possible? What lessons can we learn from both the
> content and form of discussions at the WSIS+10 MPP and the WGEC to take the
> Internet governance debate forward in a way that serves the Asia-Pacific
> region and ensures that the development debate can gain greater prominence
> again? What role can and do efforts such as the NETmundial, but also
> national Internet governance processes play in shaping this?
>
> The session will reflect on our experiences of the past 11 years as part
> of the WSIS process to move forward towards a better future, and include a
> consideration of lessons learned from multistakeholder processes such as
> the NETmundial, the MPP and the WGEC on how to best get the IG part of the
> WSIS agenda unstuck.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 4 August 2014 21:39, Jean-Christophe NOTHIAS I The Global Journal <
> jc.nothias at theglobaljournal.net> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Daniel, for your point about Democracy. We all agree that
>> Democracy is a fragile world that can easily be twisted or lost. It is
>> rather difficult to admit that such a failure or loss can be the result of
>> the wrong acting by a dominating player, presumably not a rogue state.
>>
>> Applied to mass surveillance, it seems indeed a good idea to put
>> Democracy in practice: a well-balanced (and checked) democratic system
>> allows separation of powers (1), and counter-power (2) within its own
>> governing system. I am glad to act as a responsible citizen, as you
>> suggest, and bring my voice to the protesting ones, but that still sounds a
>> bit naive without the two previous settings. So it seems to me that the
>> surveillance planet is not a flat one where all countries show the same
>> surveillance power and desire. So maybe we should not close our eyes so to
>> pass on from on secret to another, concluding that all secret services are
>> equal. I don't think secret services are supposed to spy simply every
>> citizen on this planet. That was the Stasi dream, or the Stalinist
>> bureaucratic terror. In Democracy, where trust and willingness to act
>> together are fundamental assets, this is a great loss of taxpayer money.
>> So, please allow me to disagree: the US have to prove better, and not
>> worse. See their whistleblower new legal vision: a whistleblower should be
>> allowed to speak to its boss! This is presented as a progress, when it is
>> just the opposite.
>>
>> As Internet governance cannot be contained within the boundaries of one
>> single country, neither be managed by one single country, how do we deal
>> with a democratic approach taking into account the two previous points (1)
>> and (2)?
>>
>> Publicity is a good starting point at citizen level. But CS might push a
>> little further its thinking and influence to offer governance innovation to
>> politicians if they have some trouble to understand what citizens are
>> concerned about, and not just lobbyists or PR consultants are telling them
>> over a nice gastronomic table.
>>
>> Another good point for a good start would be to call a cat a cat: I know
>> only one country, moreover a self-proclaimed champion of freedom of speech
>> that has the technical power to organize and handle mass surveillance,
>> thanks to its dominant private sector champions. So even though we can
>> agree on the idea not to play the antagonistic game, we still have to agree
>> on definitions and meanings, we still need to have acceptance for diversity
>> of views and opinions. We also have to accept to speak truth to power:
>> there was no power grab attempt from ITU in December 2012, neither before,
>> nor after. And there is still not. The current asymmetry cannot be but
>> condemned. And we need more US voices to honestly admit that things have to
>> change.
>>
>> All of that means democracy. To cherish it means to use it.
>>
>> JC
>>
>>
>> Le 4 août 2014 à 17:04, Daniel Kalchev a écrit :
>>
>>
>> On 04.08.14 12:18, Jean-Christophe NOTHIAS I The Global Journal wrote:
>>
>> Nota Bene: Wolfgang, I hope you noticed that I did not mention the
>> troubling fact that the US surveillance of all Internet users browsing and
>> emailing over the beautiful unified, un-fragmented Internet under one
>> single root-zone management, and of all phone users, including president
>> Rousseff, Chancellor Merkel, European diplomats, BRICS diplomats, all
>> diplomats, politicians, citizens, that were hostage of the US surveillance
>> paranoia and infernalia. We all pay for that.
>>
>>
>> Yes, we do all pay for that.
>>
>> But then, what can we do to resolve this situation? The US secret
>> services agencies will continue to do all of this, no matter what. This is
>> why they exist. Most of them run on military style management, and obeying
>> orders is mandatory there. The same can be said about the secret services
>> of any other country. Or any special interests group.
>>
>> My experience dealing with this kind of 'operations' is that your working
>> route is publicity. Talk about it. Don't let them do it in secret. Cops
>> hate being exposed. Let Internet users become aware what is going on. Don't
>> waste your time politicizing it, in the sense of "those bad XYZ spying on
>> us good ABC", because this is nonsense (and not true in general). If
>> Internet users don't mind being subject of surveillance, who are we to
>> force them?
>>
>> If Internet users are so upset about this situation, they as individuals
>> having (whatever - voting, buying, etc) power will act up and fix it.
>>
>> Isn't this how democracy should function? :-)
>>
>> Daniel
>>
>>
>>
>>  So yes let's the CS write to USG and its digital champions. Let's start
>> to balance our role.
>>
>>  That is something everyone has obviously in mind when considering the
>> fact that governments are no longer to be seen out of the IG game. One good
>> reason to have CS coming strong into the democratic multistakeholder model,
>> JNC and others are advocating.
>>
>>  JC
>>
>>  Le 4 août 2014 à 10:46, Kleinwächter, Wolfgang a écrit :
>>
>>
>> http://www.outlookindia.com/news/article/UN-Adopts-Resolution-on-Bridging-Digital-Divide/852511
>>
>> Outlook India:
>> The resolution decided that the overall review will be concluded in
>> December 2015 by a two-day General Assembly high-level meeting to be
>> preceded by an inter-governmental preparatory process that also takes into
>> account inputs from all relevant stakeholders of WSIS.  The
>> intergovernmental negotiation process would begin in June 2015 and lead to
>> an inter-governmentally agreed outcome document for adoption at the UNGA
>> meeting. The process retains the ownership of the preparatory meetings and
>> the final outcome document with member states alone. Mukerji said the
>> resolution ensures that leaders, "at the highest possible level" will meet
>> at the high-level plenary meeting in December next year to adopt the
>> outcome of the intergovernmental negotiations.
>>
>> Wolfgang:
>> One of the big achievements in the WSIS process was that civil society
>> got a voice in the process. A Milestone was the CS WSIS Declaratzion from
>> December 2003 which was handed over to the president of the first summit,
>> WSIS 1. It became an official document. The Tunis Agenda confirmed and
>> enhanced the role of civil society. As you can see from the text above, ten
>> years later this process is back in the hands of "governments only". The
>> final outcome document will be with member states only by taking into
>> account inputs from all relevant stakeholders (which sounds like a joke
>> with the experiences of a enhanced communicartion and cooperation over the
>> last ten years, including the UNCSTD WGs. Should civil society write a
>> letter to UN Secretary General Ban Kin Moon?
>> <ATT00001.png>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>>
>>  ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
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>>
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>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Anja Kovacs
> The Internet Democracy Project
>
> +91 9899028053 | @anjakovacs
> www.internetdemocracy.in
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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From gurstein at gmail.com  Tue Aug 12 00:28:30 2014
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 21:28:30 -0700
Subject: [governance] Blogpost: Q: Who are "Internet Users"? A: Everyone
Message-ID: <086001cfb5e5$df50b3a0$9df21ae0$@gmail.com>

Blogpost: Q: Who are "Internet Users"? A: Everyone

http://gurstein.wordpress.com/2014/08/11/q-who-are-internet-users-a-everyone
/

http://tinyurl.com/k7vxvop

M




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From subi.igp at gmail.com  Tue Aug 12 05:11:48 2014
From: subi.igp at gmail.com (Subi Chaturvedi)
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 14:41:48 +0530
Subject: [governance] Fwd: RE: Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
In-Reply-To: <CANRKRpKLHwYjr48GRC7TQgB6ayUFq-DpVCMDKt2-rzO4e79sOQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANRKRpLVWhrQXVgcD=WQkyZhMwJD8=SuEWwibdEqW4sfxQWGmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANRKRpKLHwYjr48GRC7TQgB6ayUFq-DpVCMDKt2-rzO4e79sOQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,

Heads up on the IGF 2014 participation.  Government of Turkey has confirmed
courtesy visas for all.

They will however need you to apply at your local Turkish Embassy/ Mission
in person.

The letter confirming your paticipation at the IGF and the visa support
letter will entitle you to the visa application fee waiver ( Courtesy Visa).

Hope to see you all in large numbers at the IGF. Thanks Bill for raising
the issue.Glad to see that this story has a happy ending.

In addition to the Visa we'd also put out a call to raise funding support
for civil society and academia participants. Most major organisations are
past their application deadlines. But this is a shout out to all CS
networks and donors to pool resources and assist others. Large universities
and grant making bodies included, through travel grants/fellowships. Even
if you can do part funding it will amplify CS participation.

Given the fact that we are close to the #post2015 agenda we must be present
physically in large nos. Though we have remote participation, there's
nothing like being there.

This year there's also a designated Open space which allows for greater
engagement and informal spontaneous discussions.

I'd also like to see greater synergies between different networks in
amplyfying support for each other and becoming enablers. ( Just my Santa
wishlist).

If possible donors could volunteer then co-cos could maybe match the
receipients organically with donors off-list. I am aware of many worthy
participants/ experts and new comers who would add tremendous value by
being there. Let's try and do all that we can to facilitate their
presence-Our presence at the IGF.

Warmest

Subi Chaturvedi

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr>
> Date: 12 Aug 2014 11:49
> Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
> To: "Subi Chaturvedi" <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
> Cc: "visa" <visa at igf2014.org.tr>, "Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org" <
Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>, "Aysel KANDEMİR" <akandemir at btk.gov.tr>
>
> > Dear Ms. Chaturvedi,
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Sir/Madam,
> >
> >
> >
> > All IGF participants will be given a visa without fee by Turkish
missions abroad when they submit the “IGF Registration Confirmation Letter”
including civil society, academia and business participants.
> >
> >
> >
> > Looking forward to see you all in Istanbul.
> >
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> >
> >
> > Samet Tuncer
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Subi Chaturvedi [mailto:subichaturvedi at gmail.com]
> > Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 5:35 PM
> > To: Samet TUNCER
> > Cc: visa;Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org; Aysel KANDEMİR
> > Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Samet,
> >
> > Many thanks for this wonderful gesture. We respect your compulsions and
remain immensely grateful to you, our wonderful and generous hosts.
> >
> > The solution is acceptable and welcome. I do have a question is this
valid for all the IGF participants?
> >
> > This would be great for all the civil society, academia and small
business participatants who come and paticipate in the IGF against all odds
and enrich the discourse.
> >
> > I thank you again for playing our gracious hosts.
> >
> > Looking forward to the best ever IGF.
> >
> > Warmest
> >
> > Subi
> >
> > On 11 Aug 2014 19:06, "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr> wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Sir/Madam,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > As a result of our correspondence with Turkish Ministry of Foreign
Affairs, it seems impossible to reimburse the costs of visa application fee
at the IGF venue due to internal rules of the Ministry. In this respect, we
encourage you to apply Turkish embassies and consulates directly for visa.
IGF Registration Confirmation Letter will be enough to get visa without fee
according to a communique issued by Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs
dated 21/07/2014 Ref No. KVUD/6749221.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Samet
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >> From: Subi Chaturvedi <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
> > >> Date: 9 Ağustos 2014 09:09:40 GMT+3
> > >> To: Noël Yao <noelyao2002 at yahoo.fr>, CAVUSOGLU Ahmet Erdinç <
acavusoglu at btk.gov.tr>
> > >> Cc: "amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr" <amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr>, IGF <
IGF at unog.ch>, MAG-public <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>
> > >> Subject: Re: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
> > >>
> > >> Dear All,
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Reiterating the request for courtesy visa's for IGF participants. As
has been the previous practice. The previous hosts have been able to
successfully set up kiosks at the IGF venues and reimburse participants the
cost towards the visa application fee. It is a positive gesture and
deserves all attempts at prolongation and continuity.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Regards
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Subi
> > >>
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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From chlebrum at gmail.com  Tue Aug 12 05:20:49 2014
From: chlebrum at gmail.com (chlebrum .)
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 11:20:49 +0200
Subject: [governance] Fwd: RE: Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
In-Reply-To: <CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANRKRpLVWhrQXVgcD=WQkyZhMwJD8=SuEWwibdEqW4sfxQWGmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANRKRpKLHwYjr48GRC7TQgB6ayUFq-DpVCMDKt2-rzO4e79sOQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANMQhZjHi+os5yNdfCeLa14KLaE=wEbuS1AbYyAFcZHx6J=pww@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, but... a bit too late, especially for East European and African
people


2014-08-12 11:11 GMT+02:00 Subi Chaturvedi <subi.igp at gmail.com>:

> Dear all,
>
> Heads up on the IGF 2014 participation.  Government of Turkey has
> confirmed courtesy visas for all.
>
> They will however need you to apply at your local Turkish Embassy/ Mission
> in person.
>
> The letter confirming your paticipation at the IGF and the visa support
> letter will entitle you to the visa application fee waiver ( Courtesy Visa).
>
> Hope to see you all in large numbers at the IGF. Thanks Bill for raising
> the issue.Glad to see that this story has a happy ending.
>
> In addition to the Visa we'd also put out a call to raise funding support
> for civil society and academia participants. Most major organisations are
> past their application deadlines. But this is a shout out to all CS
> networks and donors to pool resources and assist others. Large universities
> and grant making bodies included, through travel grants/fellowships. Even
> if you can do part funding it will amplify CS participation.
>
> Given the fact that we are close to the #post2015 agenda we must be
> present physically in large nos. Though we have remote participation,
> there's nothing like being there.
>
> This year there's also a designated Open space which allows for greater
> engagement and informal spontaneous discussions.
>
> I'd also like to see greater synergies between different networks in
> amplyfying support for each other and becoming enablers. ( Just my Santa
> wishlist).
>
> If possible donors could volunteer then co-cos could maybe match the
> receipients organically with donors off-list. I am aware of many worthy
> participants/ experts and new comers who would add tremendous value by
> being there. Let's try and do all that we can to facilitate their
> presence-Our presence at the IGF.
>
> Warmest
>
> Subi Chaturvedi
>
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr>
> > Date: 12 Aug 2014 11:49
> > Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
> > To: "Subi Chaturvedi" <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
> > Cc: "visa" <visa at igf2014.org.tr>, "Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org" <
> Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>, "Aysel KANDEMİR" <akandemir at btk.gov.tr>
> >
> > > Dear Ms. Chaturvedi,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Sir/Madam,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > All IGF participants will be given a visa without fee by Turkish
> missions abroad when they submit the “IGF Registration Confirmation Letter”
> including civil society, academia and business participants.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Looking forward to see you all in Istanbul.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Samet Tuncer
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Subi Chaturvedi [mailto:subichaturvedi at gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 5:35 PM
> > > To: Samet TUNCER
> > > Cc: visa;Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org; Aysel KANDEMİR
> > > Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Samet,
> > >
> > > Many thanks for this wonderful gesture. We respect your compulsions
> and remain immensely grateful to you, our wonderful and generous hosts.
> > >
> > > The solution is acceptable and welcome. I do have a question is this
> valid for all the IGF participants?
> > >
> > > This would be great for all the civil society, academia and small
> business participatants who come and paticipate in the IGF against all odds
> and enrich the discourse.
> > >
> > > I thank you again for playing our gracious hosts.
> > >
> > > Looking forward to the best ever IGF.
> > >
> > > Warmest
> > >
> > > Subi
> > >
> > > On 11 Aug 2014 19:06, "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dear Sir/Madam,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > As a result of our correspondence with Turkish Ministry of Foreign
> Affairs, it seems impossible to reimburse the costs of visa application fee
> at the IGF venue due to internal rules of the Ministry. In this respect, we
> encourage you to apply Turkish embassies and consulates directly for visa.
> IGF Registration Confirmation Letter will be enough to get visa without fee
> according to a communique issued by Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs
> dated 21/07/2014 Ref No. KVUD/6749221.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Samet
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >> From: Subi Chaturvedi <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
> > > >> Date: 9 Ağustos 2014 09:09:40 GMT+3
> > > >> To: Noël Yao <noelyao2002 at yahoo.fr>, CAVUSOGLU Ahmet Erdinç <
> acavusoglu at btk.gov.tr>
> > > >> Cc: "amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr" <amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr>, IGF <
> IGF at unog.ch>, MAG-public <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>
> > > >> Subject: Re: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
> > > >>
> > > >> Dear All,
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Reiterating the request for courtesy visa's for IGF participants.
> As has been the previous practice. The previous hosts have been able to
> successfully set up kiosks at the IGF venues and reimburse participants the
> cost towards the visa application fee. It is a positive gesture and
> deserves all attempts at prolongation and continuity.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Regards
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Subi
> > > >>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
Chantal Lebrument

​Courriel: lebrument at open-root.eu
Mob: +33 6 8369 5460
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____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From ias_pk at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 12 05:50:08 2014
From: ias_pk at yahoo.com (Imran Ahmed Shah)
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 02:50:08 -0700
Subject: [governance] Fwd: RE: Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
In-Reply-To: <CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANRKRpLVWhrQXVgcD=WQkyZhMwJD8=SuEWwibdEqW4sfxQWGmA@mail.gmail.com>	<CANRKRpKLHwYjr48GRC7TQgB6ayUFq-DpVCMDKt2-rzO4e79sOQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1407837008.46150.YahooMailNeo@web125101.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Dear Subi Chaturvedi,
Thanking you for sharing important information. If you could also intimate if there is any possibility for travel and accommodation grants/ fellowships is yet available and applicable for us (as representing CS from Pakistan), I will be highly appreciate you.

Thanking you and Best Regards

Imran Ahmed Shah


>________________________________
> From: Subi Chaturvedi <subi.igp at gmail.com>
>To: bestbits at lists.bestbits.net; governance at lists.igcaucus.org 
>Sent: Tuesday, 12 August 2014, 14:11
>Subject: [governance] Fwd: RE: Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
> 
>
>
>Dear all,
>Heads up on the IGF 2014 participation.  Government of Turkey has confirmed courtesy visas for all.
>They will however need you to apply at your local Turkish Embassy/ Mission in person.
>The letter confirming your paticipation at the IGF and the visa support letter will entitle you to the visa application fee waiver ( Courtesy Visa).
>Hope to see you all in large numbers at the IGF. Thanks Bill for raising the issue.Glad to see that this story has a happy ending.
>In addition to the Visa we'd also put out a call to raise funding support for civil society and academia participants. Most major organisations are past their application deadlines. But this is a shout out to all CS networks and donors to pool resources and assist others. Large universities and grant making bodies included, through travel grants/fellowships. Even if you can do part funding it will amplify CS participation.
>Given the fact that we are close to the #post2015 agenda we must be present physically in large nos. Though we have remote participation, there's nothing like being there.
>This year there's also a designated Open space which allows for greater engagement and informal spontaneous discussions.
>I'd also like to see greater synergies between different networks in amplyfying support for each other and becoming enablers. ( Just my Santa wishlist).
>If possible donors could volunteer then co-cos could maybe match the receipients organically with donors off-list. I am aware of many worthy participants/ experts and new comers who would add tremendous value by being there. Let's try and do all that we can to facilitate their presence-Our presence at the IGF.
>Warmest
>Subi Chaturvedi
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr>
>> Date: 12 Aug 2014 11:49
>> Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
>> To: "Subi Chaturvedi" <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
>> Cc: "visa" <visa at igf2014.org.tr>, "Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org" <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>, "Aysel KANDEMİR" <akandemir at btk.gov.tr>
>>
>> > Dear Ms. Chaturvedi,
>> >
>> >  
>> >
>> > Dear Sir/Madam,
>> >
>> >  
>> >
>> > All IGF participants will be given a visa without fee by Turkish missions abroad when they submit the “IGF Registration Confirmation Letter” including civil society, academia and business participants.
>> >
>> >  
>> >
>> > Looking forward to see you all in Istanbul.
>> >
>> >  
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> >
>> >  
>> >
>> > Samet Tuncer
>> >
>> >  
>> >
>> > From: Subi Chaturvedi [mailto:subichaturvedi at gmail.com]
>> > Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 5:35 PM
>> > To: Samet TUNCER
>> > Cc: visa;Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org; Aysel KANDEMİR
>> > Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
>> >
>> >  
>> >
>> > Dear Samet,
>> >
>> > Many thanks for this wonderful gesture. We respect your compulsions and remain immensely grateful to you, our wonderful and generous hosts.
>> >
>> > The solution is acceptable and welcome. I do have a question is this valid for all the IGF participants?
>> >
>> > This would be great for all the civil society, academia and small business participatants who come and paticipate in the IGF against all odds and enrich the discourse.
>> >
>> > I thank you again for playing our gracious hosts.
>> >
>> > Looking forward to the best ever IGF.
>> >
>> > Warmest
>> >
>> > Subi
>> >
>> > On 11 Aug 2014 19:06, "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Dear Sir/Madam,
>> > >
>> > >  
>> > >
>> > > As a result of our correspondence with Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs, it seems impossible to reimburse the costs of visa application fee at the IGF venue due to internal rules of the Ministry. In this respect, we encourage you to apply Turkish embassies and consulates directly for visa. IGF Registration Confirmation Letter will be enough to get visa without fee according to a communique issued by Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs dated 21/07/2014 Ref No. KVUD/6749221.
>> > >
>> > >  
>> > >
>> > > Regards,
>> > >
>> > >  
>> > >
>> > > Samet
>> > >
>> > >  
>> > >>
>> > >> From: Subi Chaturvedi <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
>> > >> Date: 9 Ağustos 2014 09:09:40 GMT+3
>> > >> To: Noël Yao <noelyao2002 at yahoo.fr>, CAVUSOGLU Ahmet Erdinç <acavusoglu at btk.gov.tr>
>> > >> Cc: "amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr" <amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr>, IGF <IGF at unog.ch>, MAG-public <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>
>> > >> Subject: Re: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
>> > >>
>> > >> Dear All,
>> > >>
>> > >>  
>> > >>
>> > >> Reiterating the request for courtesy visa's for IGF participants. As has been the previous practice. The previous hosts have been able to successfully set up kiosks at the IGF venues and reimburse participants the cost towards the visa application fee. It is a positive gesture and deserves all attempts at prolongation and continuity.
>> > >>
>> > >>  
>> > >>
>> > >> Regards
>> > >>
>> > >>  
>> > >>
>> > >> Subi
>> > >>
>____________________________________________________________
>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>To be removed from the list, visit:
>    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
>For all other list information and functions, see:
>    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
>Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>
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____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From suresh at hserus.net  Tue Aug 12 05:57:24 2014
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 04:57:24 -0500
Subject: [governance] Fwd: RE: Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
In-Reply-To: <1407837008.46150.YahooMailNeo@web125101.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <CANRKRpLVWhrQXVgcD=WQkyZhMwJD8=SuEWwibdEqW4sfxQWGmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANRKRpKLHwYjr48GRC7TQgB6ayUFq-DpVCMDKt2-rzO4e79sOQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1407837008.46150.YahooMailNeo@web125101.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20140812095724.GA23362@hserus.net>

I think she covered that part in her email. Quoting from it - looks like if
some organization doesn't have travel budget available to spare this late
in the game, and so doesn't step up with an offer, you're out of luck.

> In addition to the Visa we'd also put out a call to raise funding support
> for civil society and academia participants. Most major organisations are
> past their application deadlines. But this is a shout out to all CS
> networks and donors to pool resources and assist others. Large
> universities and grant making bodies included, through travel
> grants/fellowships. Even if you can do part funding it will amplify CS
> participation.  

Imran Ahmed Shah [12/08/14 02:50 -0700]:
>Dear Subi Chaturvedi,
>Thanking you for sharing important information. If you could also intimate if there is any possibility for travel and accommodation grants/ fellowships is yet available and applicable for us (as representing CS from Pakistan), I will be highly appreciate you.
>
>Thanking you and Best Regards
>
>Imran Ahmed Shah
>
>
>>________________________________
>> From: Subi Chaturvedi <subi.igp at gmail.com>
>>To: bestbits at lists.bestbits.net; governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>Sent: Tuesday, 12 August 2014, 14:11
>>Subject: [governance] Fwd: RE: Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
>>
>>
>>
>>Dear all,
>>Heads up on the IGF 2014 participation.  Government of Turkey has confirmed courtesy visas for all.
>>They will however need you to apply at your local Turkish Embassy/ Mission in person.
>>The letter confirming your paticipation at the IGF and the visa support letter will entitle you to the visa application fee waiver ( Courtesy Visa).
>>Hope to see you all in large numbers at the IGF. Thanks Bill for raising the issue.Glad to see that this story has a happy ending.
>>In addition to the Visa we'd also put out a call to raise funding support for civil society and academia participants. Most major organisations are past their application deadlines. But this is a shout out to all CS networks and donors to pool resources and assist others. Large universities and grant making bodies included, through travel grants/fellowships. Even if you can do part funding it will amplify CS participation.
>>Given the fact that we are close to the #post2015 agenda we must be present physically in large nos. Though we have remote participation, there's nothing like being there.
>>This year there's also a designated Open space which allows for greater engagement and informal spontaneous discussions.
>>I'd also like to see greater synergies between different networks in amplyfying support for each other and becoming enablers. ( Just my Santa wishlist).
>>If possible donors could volunteer then co-cos could maybe match the receipients organically with donors off-list. I am aware of many worthy participants/ experts and new comers who would add tremendous value by being there. Let's try and do all that we can to facilitate their presence-Our presence at the IGF.
>>Warmest
>>Subi Chaturvedi
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr>
>>> Date: 12 Aug 2014 11:49
>>> Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
>>> To: "Subi Chaturvedi" <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
>>> Cc: "visa" <visa at igf2014.org.tr>, "Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org" <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>, "Aysel KANDEMİR" <akandemir at btk.gov.tr>
>>>
>>> > Dear Ms. Chaturvedi,
>>> >
>>> >  
>>> >
>>> > Dear Sir/Madam,
>>> >
>>> >  
>>> >
>>> > All IGF participants will be given a visa without fee by Turkish missions abroad when they submit the “IGF Registration Confirmation Letter” including civil society, academia and business participants.
>>> >
>>> >  
>>> >
>>> > Looking forward to see you all in Istanbul.
>>> >
>>> >  
>>> >
>>> > Best regards,
>>> >
>>> >  
>>> >
>>> > Samet Tuncer
>>> >
>>> >  
>>> >
>>> > From: Subi Chaturvedi [mailto:subichaturvedi at gmail.com]
>>> > Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 5:35 PM
>>> > To: Samet TUNCER
>>> > Cc: visa;Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org; Aysel KANDEMİR
>>> > Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
>>> >
>>> >  
>>> >
>>> > Dear Samet,
>>> >
>>> > Many thanks for this wonderful gesture. We respect your compulsions and remain immensely grateful to you, our wonderful and generous hosts.
>>> >
>>> > The solution is acceptable and welcome. I do have a question is this valid for all the IGF participants?
>>> >
>>> > This would be great for all the civil society, academia and small business participatants who come and paticipate in the IGF against all odds and enrich the discourse.
>>> >
>>> > I thank you again for playing our gracious hosts.
>>> >
>>> > Looking forward to the best ever IGF.
>>> >
>>> > Warmest
>>> >
>>> > Subi
>>> >
>>> > On 11 Aug 2014 19:06, "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > Dear Sir/Madam,
>>> > >
>>> > >  
>>> > >
>>> > > As a result of our correspondence with Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs, it seems impossible to reimburse the costs of visa application fee at the IGF venue due to internal rules of the Ministry. In this respect, we encourage you to apply Turkish embassies and consulates directly for visa. IGF Registration Confirmation Letter will be enough to get visa without fee according to a communique issued by Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs dated 21/07/2014 Ref No. KVUD/6749221.
>>> > >
>>> > >  
>>> > >
>>> > > Regards,
>>> > >
>>> > >  
>>> > >
>>> > > Samet
>>> > >
>>> > >  
>>> > >>
>>> > >> From: Subi Chaturvedi <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
>>> > >> Date: 9 Ağustos 2014 09:09:40 GMT+3
>>> > >> To: Noël Yao <noelyao2002 at yahoo.fr>, CAVUSOGLU Ahmet Erdinç <acavusoglu at btk.gov.tr>
>>> > >> Cc: "amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr" <amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr>, IGF <IGF at unog.ch>, MAG-public <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>
>>> > >> Subject: Re: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Dear All,
>>> > >>
>>> > >>  
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Reiterating the request for courtesy visa's for IGF participants. As has been the previous practice. The previous hosts have been able to successfully set up kiosks at the IGF venues and reimburse participants the cost towards the visa application fee. It is a positive gesture and deserves all attempts at prolongation and continuity.
>>> > >>
>>> > >>  
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Regards
>>> > >>
>>> > >>  
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Subi
>>> > >>
>>____________________________________________________________
>>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>To be removed from the list, visit:
>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>>For all other list information and functions, see:
>>    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>>Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>>

>____________________________________________________________
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From subi.igp at gmail.com  Tue Aug 12 05:57:26 2014
From: subi.igp at gmail.com (Subi Chaturvedi)
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 15:27:26 +0530
Subject: [governance] Fwd: RE: Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
In-Reply-To: <1407837008.46150.YahooMailNeo@web125101.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <CANRKRpLVWhrQXVgcD=WQkyZhMwJD8=SuEWwibdEqW4sfxQWGmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANRKRpKLHwYjr48GRC7TQgB6ayUFq-DpVCMDKt2-rzO4e79sOQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1407837008.46150.YahooMailNeo@web125101.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAFfuWVkbhTwMH=2ko76t=UJwQpZoR5Bcp-ZNsvDr-=8aGJkBdA@mail.gmail.com>

You're welcome Imran.

At the moment we're trying in the best way we know how, by asking everone
we know.

Realise it is a common issue that all CS participants are faced with
including many academics since travel funding isn't available for meetings
of this nature because they do not fall into the realm of accepted papers/
conferences.

Will come back to you if I hear anything from anyone in the affirmative.

There are a couple of others also that I am aware of.

Let’s make a collective attempt to resolve this.

So that we can make better and more productive use of our time.

An appeal to all for common greater good.

Warmest

Subi

On 12 Aug 2014 15:20, "Imran Ahmed Shah" <ias_pk at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Subi Chaturvedi,
> Thanking you for sharing important information. If you could also
intimate if there is any possibility for travel and accommodation grants/
fellowships is yet available and applicable for us (as representing CS from
Pakistan), I will be highly appreciate you.
>
> Thanking you and Best Regards
>
> Imran Ahmed Shah
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Subi Chaturvedi <subi.igp at gmail.com>
>> To: bestbits at lists.bestbits.net; governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> Sent: Tuesday, 12 August 2014, 14:11
>> Subject: [governance] Fwd: RE: Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
>>
>> Dear all,
>> Heads up on the IGF 2014 participation.  Government of Turkey has
confirmed courtesy visas for all.
>> They will however need you to apply at your local Turkish Embassy/
Mission in person.
>> The letter confirming your paticipation at the IGF and the visa support
letter will entitle you to the visa application fee waiver ( Courtesy Visa).
>> Hope to see you all in large numbers at the IGF. Thanks Bill for raising
the issue.Glad to see that this story has a happy ending.
>> In addition to the Visa we'd also put out a call to raise funding
support for civil society and academia participants. Most major
organisations are past their application deadlines. But this is a shout out
to all CS networks and donors to pool resources and assist others. Large
universities and grant making bodies included, through travel
grants/fellowships. Even if you can do part funding it will amplify CS
participation.
>> Given the fact that we are close to the #post2015 agenda we must be
present physically in large nos. Though we have remote participation,
there's nothing like being there.
>> This year there's also a designated Open space which allows for greater
engagement and informal spontaneous discussions.
>> I'd also like to see greater synergies between different networks in
amplyfying support for each other and becoming enablers. ( Just my Santa
wishlist).
>> If possible donors could volunteer then co-cos could maybe match the
receipients organically with donors off-list. I am aware of many worthy
participants/ experts and new comers who would add tremendous value by
being there. Let's try and do all that we can to facilitate their
presence-Our presence at the IGF.
>> Warmest
>> Subi Chaturvedi
>> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> > From: "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr>
>> > Date: 12 Aug 2014 11:49
>> > Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
>> > To: "Subi Chaturvedi" <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
>> > Cc: "visa" <visa at igf2014.org.tr>, "Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org" <
Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>, "Aysel KANDEMİR" <akandemir at btk.gov.tr>
>> >
>> > > Dear Ms. Chaturvedi,
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Dear Sir/Madam,
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > All IGF participants will be given a visa without fee by Turkish
missions abroad when they submit the “IGF Registration Confirmation Letter”
including civil society, academia and business participants.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Looking forward to see you all in Istanbul.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Best regards,
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Samet Tuncer
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > From: Subi Chaturvedi [mailto:subichaturvedi at gmail.com]
>> > > Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 5:35 PM
>> > > To: Samet TUNCER
>> > > Cc: visa;Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org; Aysel KANDEMİR
>> > > Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Dear Samet,
>> > >
>> > > Many thanks for this wonderful gesture. We respect your compulsions
and remain immensely grateful to you, our wonderful and generous hosts.
>> > >
>> > > The solution is acceptable and welcome. I do have a question is this
valid for all the IGF participants?
>> > >
>> > > This would be great for all the civil society, academia and small
business participatants who come and paticipate in the IGF against all odds
and enrich the discourse.
>> > >
>> > > I thank you again for playing our gracious hosts.
>> > >
>> > > Looking forward to the best ever IGF.
>> > >
>> > > Warmest
>> > >
>> > > Subi
>> > >
>> > > On 11 Aug 2014 19:06, "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > Dear Sir/Madam,
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > As a result of our correspondence with Turkish Ministry of Foreign
Affairs, it seems impossible to reimburse the costs of visa application fee
at the IGF venue due to internal rules of the Ministry. In this respect, we
encourage you to apply Turkish embassies and consulates directly for visa.
IGF Registration Confirmation Letter will be enough to get visa without fee
according to a communique issued by Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs
dated 21/07/2014 Ref No. KVUD/6749221.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Regards,
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Samet
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >>
>> > > >> From: Subi Chaturvedi <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
>> > > >> Date: 9 Ağustos 2014 09:09:40 GMT+3
>> > > >> To: Noël Yao <noelyao2002 at yahoo.fr>, CAVUSOGLU Ahmet Erdinç <
acavusoglu at btk.gov.tr>
>> > > >> Cc: "amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr" <amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr>, IGF <
IGF at unog.ch>, MAG-public <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>
>> > > >> Subject: Re: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Dear All,
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Reiterating the request for courtesy visa's for IGF participants.
As has been the previous practice. The previous hosts have been able to
successfully set up kiosks at the IGF venues and reimburse participants the
cost towards the visa application fee. It is a positive gesture and
deserves all attempts at prolongation and continuity.
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Regards
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Subi
>> > > >>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
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From remmyn at gmail.com  Tue Aug 12 05:57:44 2014
From: remmyn at gmail.com (Remmy Nweke)
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 10:57:44 +0100
Subject: [governance] Fwd: RE: Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
In-Reply-To: <CANMQhZjHi+os5yNdfCeLa14KLaE=wEbuS1AbYyAFcZHx6J=pww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANRKRpLVWhrQXVgcD=WQkyZhMwJD8=SuEWwibdEqW4sfxQWGmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANRKRpKLHwYjr48GRC7TQgB6ayUFq-DpVCMDKt2-rzO4e79sOQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANMQhZjHi+os5yNdfCeLa14KLaE=wEbuS1AbYyAFcZHx6J=pww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMc__oqeczgE7QXZ2xx5AkpvqRG3Q-DG7AkZPc8VNdxC6O2X9g@mail.gmail.com>

Good news for those of us heading Turkey.
thanks for sharing.
Remmy


On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 10:20 AM, chlebrum . <chlebrum at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks, but... a bit too late, especially for East European and African
> people
>
>
> 2014-08-12 11:11 GMT+02:00 Subi Chaturvedi <subi.igp at gmail.com>:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Heads up on the IGF 2014 participation.  Government of Turkey has
>> confirmed courtesy visas for all.
>>
>> They will however need you to apply at your local Turkish Embassy/
>> Mission in person.
>>
>> The letter confirming your paticipation at the IGF and the visa support
>> letter will entitle you to the visa application fee waiver ( Courtesy Visa).
>>
>> Hope to see you all in large numbers at the IGF. Thanks Bill for raising
>> the issue.Glad to see that this story has a happy ending.
>>
>> In addition to the Visa we'd also put out a call to raise funding support
>> for civil society and academia participants. Most major organisations are
>> past their application deadlines. But this is a shout out to all CS
>> networks and donors to pool resources and assist others. Large universities
>> and grant making bodies included, through travel grants/fellowships. Even
>> if you can do part funding it will amplify CS participation.
>>
>> Given the fact that we are close to the #post2015 agenda we must be
>> present physically in large nos. Though we have remote participation,
>> there's nothing like being there.
>>
>> This year there's also a designated Open space which allows for greater
>> engagement and informal spontaneous discussions.
>>
>> I'd also like to see greater synergies between different networks in
>> amplyfying support for each other and becoming enablers. ( Just my Santa
>> wishlist).
>>
>> If possible donors could volunteer then co-cos could maybe match the
>> receipients organically with donors off-list. I am aware of many worthy
>> participants/ experts and new comers who would add tremendous value by
>> being there. Let's try and do all that we can to facilitate their
>> presence-Our presence at the IGF.
>>
>> Warmest
>>
>> Subi Chaturvedi
>>
>> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> > From: "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr>
>> > Date: 12 Aug 2014 11:49
>> > Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
>> > To: "Subi Chaturvedi" <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
>> > Cc: "visa" <visa at igf2014.org.tr>, "Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org" <
>> Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>, "Aysel KANDEMİR" <akandemir at btk.gov.tr>
>> >
>> > > Dear Ms. Chaturvedi,
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Dear Sir/Madam,
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > All IGF participants will be given a visa without fee by Turkish
>> missions abroad when they submit the “IGF Registration Confirmation Letter”
>> including civil society, academia and business participants.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Looking forward to see you all in Istanbul.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Best regards,
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Samet Tuncer
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > From: Subi Chaturvedi [mailto:subichaturvedi at gmail.com]
>> > > Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 5:35 PM
>> > > To: Samet TUNCER
>> > > Cc: visa;Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org; Aysel KANDEMİR
>> > > Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Dear Samet,
>> > >
>> > > Many thanks for this wonderful gesture. We respect your compulsions
>> and remain immensely grateful to you, our wonderful and generous hosts.
>> > >
>> > > The solution is acceptable and welcome. I do have a question is this
>> valid for all the IGF participants?
>> > >
>> > > This would be great for all the civil society, academia and small
>> business participatants who come and paticipate in the IGF against all odds
>> and enrich the discourse.
>> > >
>> > > I thank you again for playing our gracious hosts.
>> > >
>> > > Looking forward to the best ever IGF.
>> > >
>> > > Warmest
>> > >
>> > > Subi
>> > >
>> > > On 11 Aug 2014 19:06, "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > Dear Sir/Madam,
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > As a result of our correspondence with Turkish Ministry of Foreign
>> Affairs, it seems impossible to reimburse the costs of visa application fee
>> at the IGF venue due to internal rules of the Ministry. In this respect, we
>> encourage you to apply Turkish embassies and consulates directly for visa.
>> IGF Registration Confirmation Letter will be enough to get visa without fee
>> according to a communique issued by Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs
>> dated 21/07/2014 Ref No. KVUD/6749221.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Regards,
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Samet
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >>
>> > > >> From: Subi Chaturvedi <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
>> > > >> Date: 9 Ağustos 2014 09:09:40 GMT+3
>> > > >> To: Noël Yao <noelyao2002 at yahoo.fr>, CAVUSOGLU Ahmet Erdinç <
>> acavusoglu at btk.gov.tr>
>> > > >> Cc: "amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr" <amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr>, IGF <
>> IGF at unog.ch>, MAG-public <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>
>> > > >> Subject: Re: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Dear All,
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Reiterating the request for courtesy visa's for IGF participants.
>> As has been the previous practice. The previous hosts have been able to
>> successfully set up kiosks at the IGF venues and reimburse participants the
>> cost towards the visa application fee. It is a positive gesture and
>> deserves all attempts at prolongation and continuity.
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Regards
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Subi
>> > > >>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Chantal Lebrument
>
> ​Courriel: lebrument at open-root.eu
> Mob: +33 6 8369 5460
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


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You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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To be removed from the list, visit:
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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From b.schombe at gmail.com  Tue Aug 12 06:28:11 2014
From: b.schombe at gmail.com (Baudouin SCHOMBE)
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 12:28:11 +0200
Subject: [governance] Fwd: RE: Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
In-Reply-To: <CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANRKRpLVWhrQXVgcD=WQkyZhMwJD8=SuEWwibdEqW4sfxQWGmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANRKRpKLHwYjr48GRC7TQgB6ayUFq-DpVCMDKt2-rzO4e79sOQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHj_20g6WiG+rUOUwtXfv2tTBzPtczMera5E5mxmoqgbchco8w@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

It is appropriate to recognize the efforts that you provide to facilitate
the participation of different stakeholders in the IGF 2014 in Istanbul.
This show of solidarity can not go unnoticed and would like to thank you
sincerely for your efforts.
On our side, to materialize this trust and show of solidarity, we must
receive qualitative and constructive given the challenges of the future of
the Internet in its own ecosystem.
We are involved in this development but also to us to arrange for a
positive and constructive internet.

*SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN*
*REPRESENTANT  TICAFRICA ET CYBERVILLAGE at FRICA/RDC*

*COORDINATION NATIONALE CAFECCOORDINATION NATIONALE REPRONTIC*

Téléphone mobile:+243998983491/+243813684512
email                  : b.schombe at gmail.com
skype                 : b.schombe
blog                    : http://akimambo.unblog.fr





2014-08-12 11:11 GMT+02:00 Subi Chaturvedi <subi.igp at gmail.com>:

> Dear all,
>
> Heads up on the IGF 2014 participation.  Government of Turkey has
> confirmed courtesy visas for all.
>
> They will however need you to apply at your local Turkish Embassy/ Mission
> in person.
>
> The letter confirming your paticipation at the IGF and the visa support
> letter will entitle you to the visa application fee waiver ( Courtesy Visa).
>
> Hope to see you all in large numbers at the IGF. Thanks Bill for raising
> the issue.Glad to see that this story has a happy ending.
>
> In addition to the Visa we'd also put out a call to raise funding support
> for civil society and academia participants. Most major organisations are
> past their application deadlines. But this is a shout out to all CS
> networks and donors to pool resources and assist others. Large universities
> and grant making bodies included, through travel grants/fellowships. Even
> if you can do part funding it will amplify CS participation.
>
> Given the fact that we are close to the #post2015 agenda we must be
> present physically in large nos. Though we have remote participation,
> there's nothing like being there.
>
> This year there's also a designated Open space which allows for greater
> engagement and informal spontaneous discussions.
>
> I'd also like to see greater synergies between different networks in
> amplyfying support for each other and becoming enablers. ( Just my Santa
> wishlist).
>
> If possible donors could volunteer then co-cos could maybe match the
> receipients organically with donors off-list. I am aware of many worthy
> participants/ experts and new comers who would add tremendous value by
> being there. Let's try and do all that we can to facilitate their
> presence-Our presence at the IGF.
>
> Warmest
>
> Subi Chaturvedi
>
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr>
> > Date: 12 Aug 2014 11:49
> > Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
> > To: "Subi Chaturvedi" <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
> > Cc: "visa" <visa at igf2014.org.tr>, "Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org" <
> Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>, "Aysel KANDEMİR" <akandemir at btk.gov.tr>
> >
> > > Dear Ms. Chaturvedi,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Sir/Madam,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > All IGF participants will be given a visa without fee by Turkish
> missions abroad when they submit the “IGF Registration Confirmation Letter”
> including civil society, academia and business participants.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Looking forward to see you all in Istanbul.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Samet Tuncer
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Subi Chaturvedi [mailto:subichaturvedi at gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 5:35 PM
> > > To: Samet TUNCER
> > > Cc: visa;Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org; Aysel KANDEMİR
> > > Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Samet,
> > >
> > > Many thanks for this wonderful gesture. We respect your compulsions
> and remain immensely grateful to you, our wonderful and generous hosts.
> > >
> > > The solution is acceptable and welcome. I do have a question is this
> valid for all the IGF participants?
> > >
> > > This would be great for all the civil society, academia and small
> business participatants who come and paticipate in the IGF against all odds
> and enrich the discourse.
> > >
> > > I thank you again for playing our gracious hosts.
> > >
> > > Looking forward to the best ever IGF.
> > >
> > > Warmest
> > >
> > > Subi
> > >
> > > On 11 Aug 2014 19:06, "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dear Sir/Madam,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > As a result of our correspondence with Turkish Ministry of Foreign
> Affairs, it seems impossible to reimburse the costs of visa application fee
> at the IGF venue due to internal rules of the Ministry. In this respect, we
> encourage you to apply Turkish embassies and consulates directly for visa.
> IGF Registration Confirmation Letter will be enough to get visa without fee
> according to a communique issued by Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs
> dated 21/07/2014 Ref No. KVUD/6749221.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Samet
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >> From: Subi Chaturvedi <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
> > > >> Date: 9 Ağustos 2014 09:09:40 GMT+3
> > > >> To: Noël Yao <noelyao2002 at yahoo.fr>, CAVUSOGLU Ahmet Erdinç <
> acavusoglu at btk.gov.tr>
> > > >> Cc: "amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr" <amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr>, IGF <
> IGF at unog.ch>, MAG-public <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>
> > > >> Subject: Re: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
> > > >>
> > > >> Dear All,
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Reiterating the request for courtesy visa's for IGF participants.
> As has been the previous practice. The previous hosts have been able to
> successfully set up kiosks at the IGF venues and reimburse participants the
> cost towards the visa application fee. It is a positive gesture and
> deserves all attempts at prolongation and continuity.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Regards
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Subi
> > > >>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
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From cveraq at gmail.com  Tue Aug 12 06:50:36 2014
From: cveraq at gmail.com (Carlos Vera Quintana)
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 12:50:36 +0200
Subject: [governance] Fwd: RE: Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
In-Reply-To: <CANMQhZjHi+os5yNdfCeLa14KLaE=wEbuS1AbYyAFcZHx6J=pww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANRKRpLVWhrQXVgcD=WQkyZhMwJD8=SuEWwibdEqW4sfxQWGmA@mail.gmail.com> <CANRKRpKLHwYjr48GRC7TQgB6ayUFq-DpVCMDKt2-rzO4e79sOQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com> <CANMQhZjHi+os5yNdfCeLa14KLaE=wEbuS1AbYyAFcZHx6J=pww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <07E3B3B4-1D1C-4579-BE9A-273F1C0017AD@gmail.com>

And also for Latinoamerican people

Carlos Vera Quintana
0988141143
Sígueme @cveraq

> El 12/08/2014, a las 11:20, "chlebrum ." <chlebrum at gmail.com> escribió:
> 
> Thanks, but... a bit too late, especially for East European and African people 
> 
> 
> 2014-08-12 11:11 GMT+02:00 Subi Chaturvedi <subi.igp at gmail.com>:
>> Dear all,
>> 
>> Heads up on the IGF 2014 participation.  Government of Turkey has confirmed courtesy visas for all.
>> 
>> They will however need you to apply at your local Turkish Embassy/ Mission in person.
>> 
>> The letter confirming your paticipation at the IGF and the visa support letter will entitle you to the visa application fee waiver ( Courtesy Visa).
>> 
>> Hope to see you all in large numbers at the IGF. Thanks Bill for raising the issue.Glad to see that this story has a happy ending.
>> 
>> In addition to the Visa we'd also put out a call to raise funding support for civil society and academia participants. Most major organisations are past their application deadlines. But this is a shout out to all CS networks and donors to pool resources and assist others. Large universities and grant making bodies included, through travel grants/fellowships. Even if you can do part funding it will amplify CS participation.
>> 
>> Given the fact that we are close to the #post2015 agenda we must be present physically in large nos. Though we have remote participation, there's nothing like being there.
>> 
>> This year there's also a designated Open space which allows for greater engagement and informal spontaneous discussions.
>> 
>> I'd also like to see greater synergies between different networks in amplyfying support for each other and becoming enablers. ( Just my Santa wishlist).
>> 
>> If possible donors could volunteer then co-cos could maybe match the receipients organically with donors off-list. I am aware of many worthy participants/ experts and new comers who would add tremendous value by being there. Let's try and do all that we can to facilitate their presence-Our presence at the IGF.
>> 
>> Warmest
>> 
>> Subi Chaturvedi
>> 
>> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> > From: "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr>
>> > Date: 12 Aug 2014 11:49
>> > Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
>> > To: "Subi Chaturvedi" <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
>> > Cc: "visa" <visa at igf2014.org.tr>, "Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org" <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>, "Aysel KANDEMİR" <akandemir at btk.gov.tr>
>> >
>> > > Dear Ms. Chaturvedi,
>> > >
>> > >  
>> > >
>> > > Dear Sir/Madam,
>> > >
>> > >  
>> > >
>> > > All IGF participants will be given a visa without fee by Turkish missions abroad when they submit the “IGF Registration Confirmation Letter” including civil society, academia and business participants.
>> > >
>> > >  
>> > >
>> > > Looking forward to see you all in Istanbul.
>> > >
>> > >  
>> > >
>> > > Best regards,
>> > >
>> > >  
>> > >
>> > > Samet Tuncer
>> > >
>> > >  
>> > >
>> > > From: Subi Chaturvedi [mailto:subichaturvedi at gmail.com]
>> > > Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 5:35 PM
>> > > To: Samet TUNCER
>> > > Cc: visa;Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org; Aysel KANDEMİR
>> > > Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
>> > >
>> > >  
>> > >
>> > > Dear Samet,
>> > >
>> > > Many thanks for this wonderful gesture. We respect your compulsions and remain immensely grateful to you, our wonderful and generous hosts.
>> > >
>> > > The solution is acceptable and welcome. I do have a question is this valid for all the IGF participants?
>> > >
>> > > This would be great for all the civil society, academia and small business participatants who come and paticipate in the IGF against all odds and enrich the discourse.
>> > >
>> > > I thank you again for playing our gracious hosts.
>> > >
>> > > Looking forward to the best ever IGF.
>> > >
>> > > Warmest
>> > >
>> > > Subi
>> > >
>> > > On 11 Aug 2014 19:06, "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > Dear Sir/Madam,
>> > > >
>> > > >  
>> > > >
>> > > > As a result of our correspondence with Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs, it seems impossible to reimburse the costs of visa application fee at the IGF venue due to internal rules of the Ministry. In this respect, we encourage you to apply Turkish embassies and consulates directly for visa. IGF Registration Confirmation Letter will be enough to get visa without fee according to a communique issued by Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs dated 21/07/2014 Ref No. KVUD/6749221.
>> > > >
>> > > >  
>> > > >
>> > > > Regards,
>> > > >
>> > > >  
>> > > >
>> > > > Samet
>> > > >
>> > > >  
>> > > >>
>> > > >> From: Subi Chaturvedi <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
>> > > >> Date: 9 Ağustos 2014 09:09:40 GMT+3
>> > > >> To: Noël Yao <noelyao2002 at yahoo.fr>, CAVUSOGLU Ahmet Erdinç <acavusoglu at btk.gov.tr>
>> > > >> Cc: "amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr" <amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr>, IGF <IGF at unog.ch>, MAG-public <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>
>> > > >> Subject: Re: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Dear All,
>> > > >>
>> > > >>  
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Reiterating the request for courtesy visa's for IGF participants. As has been the previous practice. The previous hosts have been able to successfully set up kiosks at the IGF venues and reimburse participants the cost towards the visa application fee. It is a positive gesture and deserves all attempts at prolongation and continuity.
>> > > >>
>> > > >>  
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Regards
>> > > >>
>> > > >>  
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Subi
>> > > >>
>> 
>> 
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> 
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> 
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Chantal Lebrument
> 
> ​Courriel: lebrument at open-root.eu
> Mob: +33 6 8369 5460
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
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>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
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From kichango at gmail.com  Tue Aug 12 09:43:09 2014
From: kichango at gmail.com (Mawaki Chango)
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 13:43:09 +0000
Subject: [governance] Re: [bestbits] Fwd: RE: Courtesy Visa for Turkey and
 funding
In-Reply-To: <CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANRKRpLVWhrQXVgcD=WQkyZhMwJD8=SuEWwibdEqW4sfxQWGmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANRKRpKLHwYjr48GRC7TQgB6ayUFq-DpVCMDKt2-rzO4e79sOQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACTo+v9fLCccaA2Vt=FvaOe7+OUJpEpScTVjSi1e8JTeQcUJmQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Thanks, Subi, for this update.
A question just to clarify the visa process: So we still need to collect
the courtesy visa from the consulate before traveling or we just need to
drop our application there and then collect the visa upon arrival?

Concerning attendance and travel support, I was happy to learn yesterday
that my colleague IGC co-co now has funding to attend (hope I got that
right, De) so at least one of us will be there. That is not my case as of
today, and that is my fault. Frankly I wasn't planning to be there at first
under the rationale that I do not see it necessary to attend the IGF every
year and that the next year Forum (the 10th edition) might turn out to be
more critical for me and many others to participate in. But that was to
forget that this year meeting might well be my only one as IGC's coco and
at a time we are soul searching, I owe it to myself and to the IGC
community to try and be there (esp. after I learned that De, my
coordinatorship mate, also didn't have funding support to attend, while for
some reasons I was then under the impression that she did.) In the
meantime, I started shooting emails to a number of organizations I thought
might help but as one might expect, it is a bit late in the process (so far
responses have confirmed this.) Now I'm glad she at least can be there and
we'll see whatever happens to my participation - I'll try and help from
wherever I am.

That was my confession segment, thanks for listening ;)

Mawaki


On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 9:11 AM, Subi Chaturvedi <subi.igp at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> Heads up on the IGF 2014 participation.  Government of Turkey has
> confirmed courtesy visas for all.
>
> They will however need you to apply at your local Turkish Embassy/ Mission
> in person.
>
> The letter confirming your paticipation at the IGF and the visa support
> letter will entitle you to the visa application fee waiver ( Courtesy Visa).
>
> Hope to see you all in large numbers at the IGF. Thanks Bill for raising
> the issue.Glad to see that this story has a happy ending.
>
> In addition to the Visa we'd also put out a call to raise funding support
> for civil society and academia participants. Most major organisations are
> past their application deadlines. But this is a shout out to all CS
> networks and donors to pool resources and assist others. Large universities
> and grant making bodies included, through travel grants/fellowships. Even
> if you can do part funding it will amplify CS participation.
>
> Given the fact that we are close to the #post2015 agenda we must be
> present physically in large nos. Though we have remote participation,
> there's nothing like being there.
>
> This year there's also a designated Open space which allows for greater
> engagement and informal spontaneous discussions.
>
> I'd also like to see greater synergies between different networks in
> amplyfying support for each other and becoming enablers. ( Just my Santa
> wishlist).
>
> If possible donors could volunteer then co-cos could maybe match the
> receipients organically with donors off-list. I am aware of many worthy
> participants/ experts and new comers who would add tremendous value by
> being there. Let's try and do all that we can to facilitate their
> presence-Our presence at the IGF.
>
> Warmest
>
> Subi Chaturvedi
>
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr>
> > Date: 12 Aug 2014 11:49
> > Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
> > To: "Subi Chaturvedi" <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
> > Cc: "visa" <visa at igf2014.org.tr>, "Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org" <
> Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>, "Aysel KANDEMİR" <akandemir at btk.gov.tr>
> >
> > > Dear Ms. Chaturvedi,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Sir/Madam,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > All IGF participants will be given a visa without fee by Turkish
> missions abroad when they submit the “IGF Registration Confirmation Letter”
> including civil society, academia and business participants.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Looking forward to see you all in Istanbul.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Samet Tuncer
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Subi Chaturvedi [mailto:subichaturvedi at gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 5:35 PM
> > > To: Samet TUNCER
> > > Cc: visa;Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org; Aysel KANDEMİR
> > > Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Samet,
> > >
> > > Many thanks for this wonderful gesture. We respect your compulsions
> and remain immensely grateful to you, our wonderful and generous hosts.
> > >
> > > The solution is acceptable and welcome. I do have a question is this
> valid for all the IGF participants?
> > >
> > > This would be great for all the civil society, academia and small
> business participatants who come and paticipate in the IGF against all odds
> and enrich the discourse.
> > >
> > > I thank you again for playing our gracious hosts.
> > >
> > > Looking forward to the best ever IGF.
> > >
> > > Warmest
> > >
> > > Subi
> > >
> > > On 11 Aug 2014 19:06, "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dear Sir/Madam,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > As a result of our correspondence with Turkish Ministry of Foreign
> Affairs, it seems impossible to reimburse the costs of visa application fee
> at the IGF venue due to internal rules of the Ministry. In this respect, we
> encourage you to apply Turkish embassies and consulates directly for visa.
> IGF Registration Confirmation Letter will be enough to get visa without fee
> according to a communique issued by Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs
> dated 21/07/2014 Ref No. KVUD/6749221.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Samet
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >> From: Subi Chaturvedi <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
> > > >> Date: 9 Ağustos 2014 09:09:40 GMT+3
> > > >> To: Noël Yao <noelyao2002 at yahoo.fr>, CAVUSOGLU Ahmet Erdinç <
> acavusoglu at btk.gov.tr>
> > > >> Cc: "amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr" <amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr>, IGF <
> IGF at unog.ch>, MAG-public <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>
> > > >> Subject: Re: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
> > > >>
> > > >> Dear All,
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Reiterating the request for courtesy visa's for IGF participants.
> As has been the previous practice. The previous hosts have been able to
> successfully set up kiosks at the IGF venues and reimburse participants the
> cost towards the visa application fee. It is a positive gesture and
> deserves all attempts at prolongation and continuity.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Regards
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Subi
> > > >>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      bestbits at lists.bestbits.net.
> To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:
>      http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits
>
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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From subi.igp at gmail.com  Tue Aug 12 10:53:52 2014
From: subi.igp at gmail.com (Subi Chaturvedi)
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 20:23:52 +0530
Subject: [governance] Re: [bestbits] Fwd: RE: Courtesy Visa for Turkey and
 funding
In-Reply-To: <CACTo+v9fLCccaA2Vt=FvaOe7+OUJpEpScTVjSi1e8JTeQcUJmQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANRKRpLVWhrQXVgcD=WQkyZhMwJD8=SuEWwibdEqW4sfxQWGmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANRKRpKLHwYjr48GRC7TQgB6ayUFq-DpVCMDKt2-rzO4e79sOQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACTo+v9fLCccaA2Vt=FvaOe7+OUJpEpScTVjSi1e8JTeQcUJmQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFfuWVmNaPjN-kwnqWhA9fjz5xoGMncN6CPYCL0MQc37PX2i8Q@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Mawaki,

You're very welcome. I really hope you can make it.

Have written to as many people as I could think of, for creating a pool of
resources for part funding for CS, Academia and Small and medium
enterprises.

I sincerely hope both the co-cos can be there and we can collectively
attempt wider and greater participation.

Both of you have been stellar.

On the visa, yes it is important to physically collect the visa before
departure from your local embassy or mission.

In most instances courtesy visas are either physically pasted or stapled on
the passport by the local embassy/ mission.

Also the 10th meeting of the IGF will be crucial but it might come too
close to the renewal process. While there are advantages of recency and
things staying fresh in public memory we need sufficient inputs to go
through, with adequate time for reflection and engagement with the text to
make an impact.

There have been many innovations learning from Netmundial and other IG
processes unfolding globally, at the IGF this year. We do hope that
amplyfying participation will also lead to a sincere and genuine attempt at
strengthening/ improving the IGF through varied inputs.

Trust this is helpful.

Warmest

Subi Chaturvedi

On 12 Aug 2014 19:13, "Mawaki Chango" <kichango at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Thanks, Subi, for this update.
> A question just to clarify the visa process: So we still need to collect
the courtesy visa from the consulate before traveling or we just need to
drop our application there and then collect the visa upon arrival?
>
> Concerning attendance and travel support, I was happy to learn yesterday
that my colleague IGC co-co now has funding to attend (hope I got that
right, De) so at least one of us will be there. That is not my case as of
today, and that is my fault. Frankly I wasn't planning to be there at first
under the rationale that I do not see it necessary to attend the IGF every
year and that the next year Forum (the 10th edition) might turn out to be
more critical for me and many others to participate in. But that was to
forget that this year meeting might well be my only one as IGC's coco and
at a time we are soul searching, I owe it to myself and to the IGC
community to try and be there (esp. after I learned that De, my
coordinatorship mate, also didn't have funding support to attend, while for
some reasons I was then under the impression that she did.) In the
meantime, I started shooting emails to a number of organizations I thought
might help but as one might expect, it is a bit late in the process (so far
responses have confirmed this.) Now I'm glad she at least can be there and
we'll see whatever happens to my participation - I'll try and help from
wherever I am.
>
> That was my confession segment, thanks for listening ;)
>
> Mawaki
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 9:11 AM, Subi Chaturvedi <subi.igp at gmail.com>
wrote:
>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Heads up on the IGF 2014 participation.  Government of Turkey has
confirmed courtesy visas for all.
>>
>> They will however need you to apply at your local Turkish Embassy/
Mission in person.
>>
>> The letter confirming your paticipation at the IGF and the visa support
letter will entitle you to the visa application fee waiver ( Courtesy Visa).
>>
>> Hope to see you all in large numbers at the IGF. Thanks Bill for raising
the issue.Glad to see that this story has a happy ending.
>>
>> In addition to the Visa we'd also put out a call to raise funding
support for civil society and academia participants. Most major
organisations are past their application deadlines. But this is a shout out
to all CS networks and donors to pool resources and assist others. Large
universities and grant making bodies included, through travel
grants/fellowships. Even if you can do part funding it will amplify CS
participation.
>>
>> Given the fact that we are close to the #post2015 agenda we must be
present physically in large nos. Though we have remote participation,
there's nothing like being there.
>>
>> This year there's also a designated Open space which allows for greater
engagement and informal spontaneous discussions.
>>
>> I'd also like to see greater synergies between different networks in
amplyfying support for each other and becoming enablers. ( Just my Santa
wishlist).
>>
>> If possible donors could volunteer then co-cos could maybe match the
receipients organically with donors off-list. I am aware of many worthy
participants/ experts and new comers who would add tremendous value by
being there. Let's try and do all that we can to facilitate their
presence-Our presence at the IGF.
>>
>> Warmest
>>
>> Subi Chaturvedi
>>
>> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> > From: "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr>
>> > Date: 12 Aug 2014 11:49
>> > Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
>> > To: "Subi Chaturvedi" <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
>> > Cc: "visa" <visa at igf2014.org.tr>, "Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org" <
Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>, "Aysel KANDEMİR" <akandemir at btk.gov.tr>
>> >
>> > > Dear Ms. Chaturvedi,
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Dear Sir/Madam,
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > All IGF participants will be given a visa without fee by Turkish
missions abroad when they submit the “IGF Registration Confirmation Letter”
including civil society, academia and business participants.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Looking forward to see you all in Istanbul.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Best regards,
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Samet Tuncer
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > From: Subi Chaturvedi [mailto:subichaturvedi at gmail.com]
>> > > Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 5:35 PM
>> > > To: Samet TUNCER
>> > > Cc: visa;Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org; Aysel KANDEMİR
>> > > Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Dear Samet,
>> > >
>> > > Many thanks for this wonderful gesture. We respect your compulsions
and remain immensely grateful to you, our wonderful and generous hosts.
>> > >
>> > > The solution is acceptable and welcome. I do have a question is this
valid for all the IGF participants?
>> > >
>> > > This would be great for all the civil society, academia and small
business participatants who come and paticipate in the IGF against all odds
and enrich the discourse.
>> > >
>> > > I thank you again for playing our gracious hosts.
>> > >
>> > > Looking forward to the best ever IGF.
>> > >
>> > > Warmest
>> > >
>> > > Subi
>> > >
>> > > On 11 Aug 2014 19:06, "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > Dear Sir/Madam,
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > As a result of our correspondence with Turkish Ministry of Foreign
Affairs, it seems impossible to reimburse the costs of visa application fee
at the IGF venue due to internal rules of the Ministry. In this respect, we
encourage you to apply Turkish embassies and consulates directly for visa.
IGF Registration Confirmation Letter will be enough to get visa without fee
according to a communique issued by Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs
dated 21/07/2014 Ref No. KVUD/6749221.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Regards,
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Samet
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >>
>> > > >> From: Subi Chaturvedi <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
>> > > >> Date: 9 Ağustos 2014 09:09:40 GMT+3
>> > > >> To: Noël Yao <noelyao2002 at yahoo.fr>, CAVUSOGLU Ahmet Erdinç <
acavusoglu at btk.gov.tr>
>> > > >> Cc: "amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr" <amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr>, IGF <
IGF at unog.ch>, MAG-public <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>
>> > > >> Subject: Re: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Dear All,
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Reiterating the request for courtesy visa's for IGF participants.
As has been the previous practice. The previous hosts have been able to
successfully set up kiosks at the IGF venues and reimburse participants the
cost towards the visa application fee. It is a positive gesture and
deserves all attempts at prolongation and continuity.
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Regards
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Subi
>> > > >>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      bestbits at lists.bestbits.net.
>> To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:
>>      http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits
>
>
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From mueller at syr.edu  Tue Aug 12 12:26:07 2014
From: mueller at syr.edu (Milton L Mueller)
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 16:26:07 +0000
Subject: [governance] Fwd: RE: Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
In-Reply-To: <CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANRKRpLVWhrQXVgcD=WQkyZhMwJD8=SuEWwibdEqW4sfxQWGmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANRKRpKLHwYjr48GRC7TQgB6ayUFq-DpVCMDKt2-rzO4e79sOQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <db1ffc796a464992a3e67e0645f0a95a@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>

Oh, I love this. In order to avoid a $20 visa payment we get to spend $200-$500 to travel to a city where there is an embassy and waste hours applying in person
--MM

Government of Turkey has confirmed courtesy visas for all.

They will however need you to apply at your local Turkish Embassy/ Mission in person.









The letter confirming your paticipation at the IGF and the visa support letter will entitle you to the visa application fee waiver ( Courtesy Visa).

Hope to see you all in large numbers at the IGF. Thanks Bill for raising the issue.Glad to see that this story has a happy ending.

In addition to the Visa we'd also put out a call to raise funding support for civil society and academia participants. Most major organisations are past their application deadlines. But this is a shout out to all CS networks and donors to pool resources and assist others. Large universities and grant making bodies included, through travel grants/fellowships. Even if you can do part funding it will amplify CS participation.

Given the fact that we are close to the #post2015 agenda we must be present physically in large nos. Though we have remote participation, there's nothing like being there.

This year there's also a designated Open space which allows for greater engagement and informal spontaneous discussions.

I'd also like to see greater synergies between different networks in amplyfying support for each other and becoming enablers. ( Just my Santa wishlist).

If possible donors could volunteer then co-cos could maybe match the receipients organically with donors off-list. I am aware of many worthy participants/ experts and new comers who would add tremendous value by being there. Let's try and do all that we can to facilitate their presence-Our presence at the IGF.

Warmest

Subi Chaturvedi

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr<mailto:stuncer at btk.gov.tr>>
> Date: 12 Aug 2014 11:49
> Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
> To: "Subi Chaturvedi" <subichaturvedi at gmail.com<mailto:subichaturvedi at gmail.com>>
> Cc: "visa" <visa at igf2014.org.tr<mailto:visa at igf2014.org.tr>>, "Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org<mailto:Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>" <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org<mailto:Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>>, "Aysel KANDEMİR" <akandemir at btk.gov.tr<mailto:akandemir at btk.gov.tr>>
>
> > Dear Ms. Chaturvedi,
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Sir/Madam,
> >
> >
> >
> > All IGF participants will be given a visa without fee by Turkish missions abroad when they submit the “IGF Registration Confirmation Letter” including civil society, academia and business participants.
> >
> >
> >
> > Looking forward to see you all in Istanbul.
> >
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> >
> >
> > Samet Tuncer
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Subi Chaturvedi [mailto:subichaturvedi at gmail.com<mailto:subichaturvedi at gmail.com>]
> > Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 5:35 PM
> > To: Samet TUNCER
> > Cc: visa;Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org<mailto:visa%3BIgfmaglist at intgovforum.org>; Aysel KANDEMİR
> > Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Samet,
> >
> > Many thanks for this wonderful gesture. We respect your compulsions and remain immensely grateful to you, our wonderful and generous hosts.
> >
> > The solution is acceptable and welcome. I do have a question is this valid for all the IGF participants?
> >
> > This would be great for all the civil society, academia and small business participatants who come and paticipate in the IGF against all odds and enrich the discourse.
> >
> > I thank you again for playing our gracious hosts.
> >
> > Looking forward to the best ever IGF.
> >
> > Warmest
> >
> > Subi
> >
> > On 11 Aug 2014 19:06, "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr<mailto:stuncer at btk.gov.tr>> wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Sir/Madam,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > As a result of our correspondence with Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs, it seems impossible to reimburse the costs of visa application fee at the IGF venue due to internal rules of the Ministry. In this respect, we encourage you to apply Turkish embassies and consulates directly for visa. IGF Registration Confirmation Letter will be enough to get visa without fee according to a communique issued by Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs dated 21/07/2014 Ref No. KVUD/6749221.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Samet
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >> From: Subi Chaturvedi <subichaturvedi at gmail.com<mailto:subichaturvedi at gmail.com>>
> > >> Date: 9 Ağustos 2014 09:09:40 GMT+3
> > >> To: Noël Yao <noelyao2002 at yahoo.fr<mailto:noelyao2002 at yahoo.fr>>, CAVUSOGLU Ahmet Erdinç <acavusoglu at btk.gov.tr<mailto:acavusoglu at btk.gov.tr>>
> > >> Cc: "amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr<mailto:amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr>" <amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr<mailto:amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr>>, IGF <IGF at unog.ch<mailto:IGF at unog.ch>>, MAG-public <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org<mailto:Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>>
> > >> Subject: Re: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
> > >>
> > >> Dear All,
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Reiterating the request for courtesy visa's for IGF participants. As has been the previous practice. The previous hosts have been able to successfully set up kiosks at the IGF venues and reimburse participants the cost towards the visa application fee. It is a positive gesture and deserves all attempts at prolongation and continuity.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Regards
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Subi
> > >>
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____________________________________________________________
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From suresh at hserus.net  Tue Aug 12 12:33:55 2014
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 22:03:55 +0530
Subject: [governance] Fwd: RE: Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
In-Reply-To: <db1ffc796a464992a3e67e0645f0a95a@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
References: <CANRKRpLVWhrQXVgcD=WQkyZhMwJD8=SuEWwibdEqW4sfxQWGmA@mail.gmail.com> <CANRKRpKLHwYjr48GRC7TQgB6ayUFq-DpVCMDKt2-rzO4e79sOQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com> <db1ffc796a464992a3e67e0645f0a95a@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <5C198A4A-8E01-4AB7-9B40-7DD11FD902A6@hserus.net>

Most embassies allow you to either use a travel agent or mail in your passport.

Turkey offers an e visa, is this still the case for these gratis IGF visas? I doubt it but ..

www.mfa.gov.tr/visa-information-for-foreigners.en.mfa

--srs (iPad)

> On 12-Aug-2014, at 21:56, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu> wrote:
> 
> Oh, I love this. In order to avoid a $20 visa payment we get to spend $200-$500 to travel to a city where there is an embassy and waste hours applying in person
> --MM
> Government of Turkey has confirmed courtesy visas for all.
> 
> They will however need you to apply at your local Turkish Embassy/ Mission in person.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> The letter confirming your paticipation at the IGF and the visa support letter will entitle you to the visa application fee waiver ( Courtesy Visa).
> 
> Hope to see you all in large numbers at the IGF. Thanks Bill for raising the issue.Glad to see that this story has a happy ending.
> 
> In addition to the Visa we'd also put out a call to raise funding support for civil society and academia participants. Most major organisations are past their application deadlines. But this is a shout out to all CS networks and donors to pool resources and assist others. Large universities and grant making bodies included, through travel grants/fellowships. Even if you can do part funding it will amplify CS participation.
> 
> Given the fact that we are close to the #post2015 agenda we must be present physically in large nos. Though we have remote participation, there's nothing like being there.
> 
> This year there's also a designated Open space which allows for greater engagement and informal spontaneous discussions.
> 
> I'd also like to see greater synergies between different networks in amplyfying support for each other and becoming enablers. ( Just my Santa wishlist).
> 
> If possible donors could volunteer then co-cos could maybe match the receipients organically with donors off-list. I am aware of many worthy participants/ experts and new comers who would add tremendous value by being there. Let's try and do all that we can to facilitate their presence-Our presence at the IGF.
> 
> Warmest
> 
> Subi Chaturvedi
> 
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr>
> > Date: 12 Aug 2014 11:49
> > Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
> > To: "Subi Chaturvedi" <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
> > Cc: "visa" <visa at igf2014.org.tr>, "Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org" <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>, "Aysel KANDEMİR" <akandemir at btk.gov.tr>
> >
> > > Dear Ms. Chaturvedi,
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > > Dear Sir/Madam,
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > > All IGF participants will be given a visa without fee by Turkish missions abroad when they submit the “IGF Registration Confirmation Letter” including civil society, academia and business participants.
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > > Looking forward to see you all in Istanbul.
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > > Samet Tuncer
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > > From: Subi Chaturvedi [mailto:subichaturvedi at gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 5:35 PM
> > > To: Samet TUNCER
> > > Cc: visa;Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org; Aysel KANDEMİR
> > > Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > > Dear Samet,
> > >
> > > Many thanks for this wonderful gesture. We respect your compulsions and remain immensely grateful to you, our wonderful and generous hosts.
> > >
> > > The solution is acceptable and welcome. I do have a question is this valid for all the IGF participants?
> > >
> > > This would be great for all the civil society, academia and small business participatants who come and paticipate in the IGF against all odds and enrich the discourse.
> > >
> > > I thank you again for playing our gracious hosts.
> > >
> > > Looking forward to the best ever IGF.
> > >
> > > Warmest
> > >
> > > Subi
> > >
> > > On 11 Aug 2014 19:06, "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dear Sir/Madam,
> > > >
> > > >  
> > > >
> > > > As a result of our correspondence with Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs, it seems impossible to reimburse the costs of visa application fee at the IGF venue due to internal rules of the Ministry. In this respect, we encourage you to apply Turkish embassies and consulates directly for visa. IGF Registration Confirmation Letter will be enough to get visa without fee according to a communique issued by Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs dated 21/07/2014 Ref No. KVUD/6749221.
> > > >
> > > >  
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > >  
> > > >
> > > > Samet
> > > >
> > > >  
> > > >>
> > > >> From: Subi Chaturvedi <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
> > > >> Date: 9 Ağustos 2014 09:09:40 GMT+3
> > > >> To: Noël Yao <noelyao2002 at yahoo.fr>, CAVUSOGLU Ahmet Erdinç <acavusoglu at btk.gov.tr>
> > > >> Cc: "amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr" <amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr>, IGF <IGF at unog.ch>, MAG-public <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>
> > > >> Subject: Re: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
> > > >>
> > > >> Dear All,
> > > >>
> > > >>  
> > > >>
> > > >> Reiterating the request for courtesy visa's for IGF participants. As has been the previous practice. The previous hosts have been able to successfully set up kiosks at the IGF venues and reimburse participants the cost towards the visa application fee. It is a positive gesture and deserves all attempts at prolongation and continuity.
> > > >>
> > > >>  
> > > >>
> > > >> Regards
> > > >>
> > > >>  
> > > >>
> > > >> Subi
> > > >>
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
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From mueller at syr.edu  Tue Aug 12 12:44:05 2014
From: mueller at syr.edu (Milton L Mueller)
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 16:44:05 +0000
Subject: [governance] Fwd: RE: Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
In-Reply-To: <5C198A4A-8E01-4AB7-9B40-7DD11FD902A6@hserus.net>
References: <CANRKRpLVWhrQXVgcD=WQkyZhMwJD8=SuEWwibdEqW4sfxQWGmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANRKRpKLHwYjr48GRC7TQgB6ayUFq-DpVCMDKt2-rzO4e79sOQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <db1ffc796a464992a3e67e0645f0a95a@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
 <5C198A4A-8E01-4AB7-9B40-7DD11FD902A6@hserus.net>
Message-ID: <927e47597f9b4e39823a3cdb9f8810f0@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>



From: Suresh Ramasubramanian [mailto:suresh at hserus.net]

Most embassies allow you to either use a travel agent or mail in your passport.

And the intermediaries charge no less than $90 for this service. This is just such a lovely demonstration of the economic obliviousness of governments. To avoid less than $50 in costs we incur $90 - $1,000 in expenses. I went through the same thing for Netmundial, ended up spending 36 hours and $800 to get that “free” visa (and by the way, Brazil would not accept any intermediaries for this free visa, you had to apply for it in person.) No thanks!


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____________________________________________________________
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From kichango at gmail.com  Tue Aug 12 13:10:22 2014
From: kichango at gmail.com (Mawaki Chango)
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 17:10:22 +0000
Subject: [governance] Fwd: RE: Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
In-Reply-To: <927e47597f9b4e39823a3cdb9f8810f0@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
References: <CANRKRpLVWhrQXVgcD=WQkyZhMwJD8=SuEWwibdEqW4sfxQWGmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANRKRpKLHwYjr48GRC7TQgB6ayUFq-DpVCMDKt2-rzO4e79sOQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <db1ffc796a464992a3e67e0645f0a95a@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu> <5C198A4A-8E01-4AB7-9B40-7DD11FD902A6@hserus.net>
 <927e47597f9b4e39823a3cdb9f8810f0@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <CACTo+v9uKNzPP0bkrAHdrqQi8iOYDuPtUM6m6xAZPE-biosjcw@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah, the thing is that it doesn't get any better if it were a paid tourist
or regular business/meeting visa, as the locations involved don't get
closer one way or another ;)

Maybe your last hope in this kind of situation is to find out whether the
consulate would accept an online or a mail-in application whereby you can
send them your paperwork (whether with scanned passport pages or with the
passport itself if mail-in.) The idea here is that they might be willing to
let you know in a timely fashion if and when your application is cleared so
that you can book combined but decoupled itineraries (ie, 2 separate
tickets) so as to include a stop at the consulate in order to collect your
visa on your way out. For instance: (Syracuse - NYC) in the morning + trip
to the consulate + (NYC - Istanbul) in the evening, assuming flights
availability.

This is just a suggestion based on some of the travel gymnastic I remember
doing in similar cases, but of course it depends on what is acceptable
administrative procedure for the consulate at hand.
Good luck,

Mawaki


On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 4:44 PM, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> *From:* Suresh Ramasubramanian [mailto:suresh at hserus.net]
>
>  Most embassies allow you to either use a travel agent or mail in your
> passport.
>
>
>
> And the intermediaries charge no less than $90 for this service. This is
> just such a lovely demonstration of the economic obliviousness of
> governments. To avoid less than $50 in costs we incur $90 - $1,000 in
> expenses. I went through the same thing for Netmundial, ended up spending
> 36 hours and $800 to get that "free" visa (and by the way, Brazil would not
> accept any intermediaries for this free visa, you had to apply for it in
> person.) No thanks!
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
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From suresh at hserus.net  Tue Aug 12 13:24:43 2014
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 12:24:43 -0500
Subject: [governance] Fwd: RE: Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
In-Reply-To: <CACTo+v9uKNzPP0bkrAHdrqQi8iOYDuPtUM6m6xAZPE-biosjcw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANRKRpLVWhrQXVgcD=WQkyZhMwJD8=SuEWwibdEqW4sfxQWGmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANRKRpKLHwYjr48GRC7TQgB6ayUFq-DpVCMDKt2-rzO4e79sOQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <db1ffc796a464992a3e67e0645f0a95a@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
 <5C198A4A-8E01-4AB7-9B40-7DD11FD902A6@hserus.net>
 <927e47597f9b4e39823a3cdb9f8810f0@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
 <CACTo+v9uKNzPP0bkrAHdrqQi8iOYDuPtUM6m6xAZPE-biosjcw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140812172443.GA19074@hserus.net>

Mawaki Chango [12/08/14 17:10 +0000]:
>Yeah, the thing is that it doesn't get any better if it were a paid tourist
>or regular business/meeting visa, as the locations involved don't get
>closer one way or another ;)

"e-visa" - you apply for it online.

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From wjdrake at gmail.com  Tue Aug 12 23:55:03 2014
From: wjdrake at gmail.com (William Drake)
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 12:55:03 +0900
Subject: [governance] Re: [bestbits] Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
In-Reply-To: <CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANRKRpLVWhrQXVgcD=WQkyZhMwJD8=SuEWwibdEqW4sfxQWGmA@mail.gmail.com> <CANRKRpKLHwYjr48GRC7TQgB6ayUFq-DpVCMDKt2-rzO4e79sOQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <741502C1-36BA-4B07-AD5D-774A94079597@gmail.com>

Hi

Yes, no change from when I reported this last week, at missions/embassies only, alas not upon arrival or online.

Bill

On Aug 12, 2014, at 6:11 PM, Subi Chaturvedi <subi.igp at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear all,
> 
> Heads up on the IGF 2014 participation.  Government of Turkey has confirmed courtesy visas for all.
> 
> They will however need you to apply at your local Turkish Embassy/ Mission in person.
> 
> The letter confirming your paticipation at the IGF and the visa support letter will entitle you to the visa application fee waiver ( Courtesy Visa).
> 
> Hope to see you all in large numbers at the IGF. Thanks Bill for raising the issue.Glad to see that this story has a happy ending.
> 
> In addition to the Visa we'd also put out a call to raise funding support for civil society and academia participants. Most major organisations are past their application deadlines. But this is a shout out to all CS networks and donors to pool resources and assist others. Large universities and grant making bodies included, through travel grants/fellowships. Even if you can do part funding it will amplify CS participation.
> 
> Given the fact that we are close to the #post2015 agenda we must be present physically in large nos. Though we have remote participation, there's nothing like being there.
> 
> This year there's also a designated Open space which allows for greater engagement and informal spontaneous discussions.
> 
> I'd also like to see greater synergies between different networks in amplyfying support for each other and becoming enablers. ( Just my Santa wishlist).
> 
> If possible donors could volunteer then co-cos could maybe match the receipients organically with donors off-list. I am aware of many worthy participants/ experts and new comers who would add tremendous value by being there. Let's try and do all that we can to facilitate their presence-Our presence at the IGF.
> 
> Warmest
> 
> Subi Chaturvedi
> 
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr>
> > Date: 12 Aug 2014 11:49
> > Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
> > To: "Subi Chaturvedi" <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
> > Cc: "visa" <visa at igf2014.org.tr>, "Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org" <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>, "Aysel KANDEMİR" <akandemir at btk.gov.tr>
> >
> > > Dear Ms. Chaturvedi,
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > > Dear Sir/Madam,
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > > All IGF participants will be given a visa without fee by Turkish missions abroad when they submit the “IGF Registration Confirmation Letter” including civil society, academia and business participants.
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > > Looking forward to see you all in Istanbul.
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > > Samet Tuncer
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > > From: Subi Chaturvedi [mailto:subichaturvedi at gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 5:35 PM
> > > To: Samet TUNCER
> > > Cc: visa;Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org; Aysel KANDEMİR
> > > Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > > Dear Samet,
> > >
> > > Many thanks for this wonderful gesture. We respect your compulsions and remain immensely grateful to you, our wonderful and generous hosts.
> > >
> > > The solution is acceptable and welcome. I do have a question is this valid for all the IGF participants?
> > >
> > > This would be great for all the civil society, academia and small business participatants who come and paticipate in the IGF against all odds and enrich the discourse.
> > >
> > > I thank you again for playing our gracious hosts.
> > >
> > > Looking forward to the best ever IGF.
> > >
> > > Warmest
> > >
> > > Subi
> > >
> > > On 11 Aug 2014 19:06, "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dear Sir/Madam,
> > > >
> > > >  
> > > >
> > > > As a result of our correspondence with Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs, it seems impossible to reimburse the costs of visa application fee at the IGF venue due to internal rules of the Ministry. In this respect, we encourage you to apply Turkish embassies and consulates directly for visa. IGF Registration Confirmation Letter will be enough to get visa without fee according to a communique issued by Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs dated 21/07/2014 Ref No. KVUD/6749221.
> > > >
> > > >  
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > >  
> > > >
> > > > Samet
> > > >
> > > >  
> > > >>
> > > >> From: Subi Chaturvedi <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
> > > >> Date: 9 Ağustos 2014 09:09:40 GMT+3
> > > >> To: Noël Yao <noelyao2002 at yahoo.fr>, CAVUSOGLU Ahmet Erdinç <acavusoglu at btk.gov.tr>
> > > >> Cc: "amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr" <amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr>, IGF <IGF at unog.ch>, MAG-public <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>
> > > >> Subject: Re: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
> > > >>
> > > >> Dear All,
> > > >>
> > > >>  
> > > >>
> > > >> Reiterating the request for courtesy visa's for IGF participants. As has been the previous practice. The previous hosts have been able to successfully set up kiosks at the IGF venues and reimburse participants the cost towards the visa application fee. It is a positive gesture and deserves all attempts at prolongation and continuity.
> > > >>
> > > >>  
> > > >>
> > > >> Regards
> > > >>
> > > >>  
> > > >>
> > > >> Subi
> > > >>
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     bestbits at lists.bestbits.net.
> To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:
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From tijani.benjemaa at planet.tn  Wed Aug 13 05:04:59 2014
From: tijani.benjemaa at planet.tn (Tijani BEN JEMAA)
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 10:04:59 +0100
Subject: [governance] Fwd: RE: Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
In-Reply-To: <927e47597f9b4e39823a3cdb9f8810f0@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
References: <CANRKRpLVWhrQXVgcD=WQkyZhMwJD8=SuEWwibdEqW4sfxQWGmA@mail.gmail.com> <CANRKRpKLHwYjr48GRC7TQgB6ayUFq-DpVCMDKt2-rzO4e79sOQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com> <db1ffc796a464992a3e67e0645f0a95a@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu> <5C198A4A-8E01-4AB7-9B40-7DD11FD902A6@hserus.net> <927e47597f9b4e39823a3cdb9f8810f0@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <004a01cfb6d5$aee6e310$0cb4a930$@benjemaa@planet.tn>

We have to thank Turkey for offering a courtesy visa for all IGF participants. I understand that some, who never had a problem with obtaining a visa,  complain about le cost, but our community from Africa and some other regions will be happy with it, especially because they were prevented to attend the ICANN meetings of Toronto and London because their application for an entry visa was simply rejected.



Yes, NetMundial was another example of inclusiveness because all participants were given the necessary entry visa, including the ones rejected by Canada and UK. I’m sad to say that, and I hope it will never happen in the future.



Tijani BEN JEMAA







De : governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] De la part de Milton L Mueller
Envoyé : mardi 12 août 2014 17:44
À : Governance (governance at lists.igcaucus.org)
Objet : RE: [governance] Fwd: RE: Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding







From: Suresh Ramasubramanian [mailto:suresh at hserus.net]

Most embassies allow you to either use a travel agent or mail in your passport.



And the intermediaries charge no less than $90 for this service. This is just such a lovely demonstration of the economic obliviousness of governments. To avoid less than $50 in costs we incur $90 - $1,000 in expenses. I went through the same thing for Netmundial, ended up spending 36 hours and $800 to get that “free” visa (and by the way, Brazil would not accept any intermediaries for this free visa, you had to apply for it in person.) No thanks!







---
Ce courrier électronique ne contient aucun virus ou logiciel malveillant parce que la protection avast! Antivirus est active.
http://www.avast.com
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From hadja.sanon at gmail.com  Wed Aug 13 05:45:00 2014
From: hadja.sanon at gmail.com (Hadja OUATTARA/ SANON)
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:45:00 +0000
Subject: [governance] Fwd: RE: Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
In-Reply-To: <53eb2a6e.144db40a.4f50.ffffa698SMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com>
References: <CANRKRpLVWhrQXVgcD=WQkyZhMwJD8=SuEWwibdEqW4sfxQWGmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANRKRpKLHwYjr48GRC7TQgB6ayUFq-DpVCMDKt2-rzO4e79sOQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<db1ffc796a464992a3e67e0645f0a95a@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
	<5C198A4A-8E01-4AB7-9B40-7DD11FD902A6@hserus.net>
	<927e47597f9b4e39823a3cdb9f8810f0@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
	<53eb2a6e.144db40a.4f50.ffffa698SMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CANt0wwMAfmpNPVPLjXPzTZ-NDM+d=FEkGZh8GEpU3T6YdLYr+g@mail.gmail.com>

++1 Tijani

Hadja

2014-08-13 9:04 GMT+00:00 Tijani BEN JEMAA <tijani.benjemaa at planet.tn>:

>  We have to thank Turkey for offering a courtesy visa for all IGF
> participants. I understand that some, who never had a problem with
> obtaining a visa,  complain about le cost, but our community from Africa
> and some other regions will be happy with it, especially because they were
> prevented to attend the ICANN meetings of Toronto and London because their
> application for an entry visa was simply rejected.
>
>
>
> Yes, NetMundial was another example of inclusiveness because all
> participants were given the necessary entry visa, including the ones
> rejected by Canada and UK. I’m sad to say that, and I hope it will never
> happen in the future.
>
>
>
> *Tijani BEN JEMAA*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *De :* governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:
> governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] *De la part de* Milton L Mueller
> *Envoyé :* mardi 12 août 2014 17:44
> *À :* Governance (governance at lists.igcaucus.org)
> *Objet :* RE: [governance] Fwd: RE: Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Suresh Ramasubramanian [mailto:suresh at hserus.net]
>
> Most embassies allow you to either use a travel agent or mail in your
> passport.
>
>
>
> And the intermediaries charge no less than $90 for this service. This is
> just such a lovely demonstration of the economic obliviousness of
> governments. To avoid less than $50 in costs we incur $90 - $1,000 in
> expenses. I went through the same thing for Netmundial, ended up spending
> 36 hours and $800 to get that “free” visa (and by the way, Brazil would not
> accept any intermediaries for this free visa, you had to apply for it in
> person.) No thanks!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>    <http://www.avast.com/>
>
> Ce courrier électronique ne contient aucun virus ou logiciel malveillant
> parce que la protection Antivirus avast! <http://www.avast.com/> est
> active.
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
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>


-- 
Hadja OUATTARA / SANON
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From jc.nothias at theglobaljournal.net  Wed Aug 13 05:51:05 2014
From: jc.nothias at theglobaljournal.net (Jean-Christophe NOTHIAS I The Global Journal)
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 11:51:05 +0200
Subject: [governance] Fwd: RE: Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
In-Reply-To: <004a01cfb6d5$aee6e310$0cb4a930$@benjemaa@planet.tn>
References: <CANRKRpLVWhrQXVgcD=WQkyZhMwJD8=SuEWwibdEqW4sfxQWGmA@mail.gmail.com> <CANRKRpKLHwYjr48GRC7TQgB6ayUFq-DpVCMDKt2-rzO4e79sOQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com> <db1ffc796a464992a3e67e0645f0a95a@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu> <5C198A4A-8E01-4AB7-9B40-7DD11FD902A6@hserus.net> <927e47597f9b4e39823a3cdb9f8810f0@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu> <004a01cfb6d5$aee6e310$0cb4a930$@benjemaa@planet.tn>
Message-ID: <22C41E83-6D80-40F4-A37F-13B33C594CB8@theglobaljournal.net>

Fair enough, I would say. Thanks Tijani.


Le 13 août 2014 à 11:04, Tijani BEN JEMAA a écrit :

> We have to thank Turkey for offering a courtesy visa for all IGF participants. I understand that some, who never had a problem with obtaining a visa,  complain about le cost, but our community from Africa and some other regions will be happy with it, especially because they were prevented to attend the ICANN meetings of Toronto and London because their application for an entry visa was simply rejected.
>  
> Yes, NetMundial was another example of inclusiveness because all participants were given the necessary entry visa, including the ones rejected by Canada and UK. I’m sad to say that, and I hope it will never happen in the future.
>  
> Tijani BEN JEMAA
>  
>    
>  
> De : governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] De la part de Milton L Mueller
> Envoyé : mardi 12 août 2014 17:44
> À : Governance (governance at lists.igcaucus.org)
> Objet : RE: [governance] Fwd: RE: Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
>  
>  
>  
> From: Suresh Ramasubramanian [mailto:suresh at hserus.net]
> 
> Most embassies allow you to either use a travel agent or mail in your passport.
>  
> And the intermediaries charge no less than $90 for this service. This is just such a lovely demonstration of the economic obliviousness of governments. To avoid less than $50 in costs we incur $90 - $1,000 in expenses. I went through the same thing for Netmundial, ended up spending 36 hours and $800 to get that “free” visa (and by the way, Brazil would not accept any intermediaries for this free visa, you had to apply for it in person.) No thanks!
>  
>  
> 
> 
> 	
> Ce courrier électronique ne contient aucun virus ou logiciel malveillant parce que la protection Antivirus avast! est active.
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
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From nb at bollow.ch  Wed Aug 13 07:10:15 2014
From: nb at bollow.ch (Norbert Bollow)
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 13:10:15 +0200
Subject: [governance] Fwd: RE: Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
In-Reply-To: <db1ffc796a464992a3e67e0645f0a95a@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
References: <CANRKRpLVWhrQXVgcD=WQkyZhMwJD8=SuEWwibdEqW4sfxQWGmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANRKRpKLHwYjr48GRC7TQgB6ayUFq-DpVCMDKt2-rzO4e79sOQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<db1ffc796a464992a3e67e0645f0a95a@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <20140813131015.195c14b1@quill>

On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 16:26:07 +0000
Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu> wrote:

> Oh, I love this. In order to avoid a $20 visa payment we get to spend
> $200-$500 to travel to a city where there is an embassy and waste
> hours applying in person --MM

I'd expect that very likely the host country agreement between Turkey
and the UN foresees that it should be possible to pick up the free visa
at Istanbul airport. 

At least that would be the natural way for the relevant blank in the
UN's model host country agreement, see page 15 at
http://www.intgovforum.org/cmsold/ST-AI-342-HCA.pdf , to be filled
in:

“All persons referred to in article II shall have the right of entry
and exit from (host state), and no impediment shall be imposed on their
transit to and from the conference area. They shall be granted
facilities for speedy travel. Visas and entry permits, where required,
shall be granted free of charge, as speedily as possible and no later
than two weeks before the date of the Conference, provided the
application for the visa is made at least three weeks before the
opening of the conference; if the application is made later, the visa
shall be granted not later than three days from the receipt of the
application. Arrangements shall also be made to ensure that visas for
the duration of the conference are delivered at [specified point(s) of
entry] to participants who were unable to obtain them prior to arrival.”

Of course, the IGF Sekretariat should be able to confirm this with
specificy.

Greetings,
Norbert

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From mueller at syr.edu  Wed Aug 13 10:28:09 2014
From: mueller at syr.edu (Milton L Mueller)
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:28:09 +0000
Subject: [governance] Fwd: RE: Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
In-Reply-To: <20140813131015.195c14b1@quill>
References: <CANRKRpLVWhrQXVgcD=WQkyZhMwJD8=SuEWwibdEqW4sfxQWGmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANRKRpKLHwYjr48GRC7TQgB6ayUFq-DpVCMDKt2-rzO4e79sOQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<db1ffc796a464992a3e67e0645f0a95a@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
 <20140813131015.195c14b1@quill>
Message-ID: <99c7da080a044cd4aaec7e681210e55b@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>



> -----Original Message-----
> 
> I'd expect that very likely the host country agreement between Turkey and
> the UN foresees that it should be possible to pick up the free visa at Istanbul
> airport.

Now that would make sense. That would actually be an offer that has value.

--MM
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From avri at acm.org  Wed Aug 13 12:14:11 2014
From: avri at acm.org (Avri Doria)
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 12:14:11 -0400
Subject: [governance] Fwd: RE: Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
In-Reply-To: <99c7da080a044cd4aaec7e681210e55b@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
References: <CANRKRpLVWhrQXVgcD=WQkyZhMwJD8=SuEWwibdEqW4sfxQWGmA@mail.gmail.com>	<CANRKRpKLHwYjr48GRC7TQgB6ayUFq-DpVCMDKt2-rzO4e79sOQ@mail.gmail.com>	<CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com>	<db1ffc796a464992a3e67e0645f0a95a@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu> <20140813131015.195c14b1@quill> <99c7da080a044cd4aaec7e681210e55b@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <53EB8ED3.9060106@acm.org>

Hi,

The only thing to be sure of is that some airlines require visas for
boarding, so there will need to be documentations from the Turkish
government you can carry saying this will be ok.

Definitely needed that in the past, I think in Bali, for example.

avri

On 13-Aug-14 10:28, Milton L Mueller wrote:
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>> I'd expect that very likely the host country agreement between Turkey and
>> the UN foresees that it should be possible to pick up the free visa at Istanbul
>> airport.
> 
> Now that would make sense. That would actually be an offer that has value.
> 
> --MM
> 

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From gurstein at gmail.com  Wed Aug 13 18:11:38 2014
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 15:11:38 -0700
Subject: [governance] FW: Netmundial Initiative
In-Reply-To: <02e301cfb741$70ce9de0$526bd9a0$@gmail.com>
References: <02e301cfb741$70ce9de0$526bd9a0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <02fa01cfb743$8e1ab300$aa501900$@gmail.com>

Evidently this has just been leaked.

 

http://t.co/xUxOf0AvLl

 

M

 

 

                                          NETmundial Initiative

During ICANN 50 in London, Fadi Chehadé, the president and CEO of ICANN, has
announced the idea of creating a  NETMundial Initiative. 

After that, a launch event has been scheduled for August, 28th, in Geneva.
There is no public information available about this initiative or event. 

Please help us and the public understand this better by submitting your
documents.

 

Brief_NETmundial_Initiative.pdf
<https://k52lcjc5fws3jbqf.onion.lt/Files/Brief_NETmundial_Initiative.pdf>
NETmundial Initiative - Briefing                                   August
13, 2014

Invitations_NETmundial_Initiative.pdf
<https://k52lcjc5fws3jbqf.onion.lt/Files/Invitations_NETmundial_Initiative.p
df>        Launch Event - List of invitees
August 13, 2014

Agenda_NETmundial_Initiative.pdf
<https://k52lcjc5fws3jbqf.onion.lt/Files/Agenda_NETmundial_Initiative.pdf>
Launch Event - Meeting Agenda                                      August
13, 2014

 

 

 

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From ian.peter at ianpeter.com  Wed Aug 13 18:39:32 2014
From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter)
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 08:39:32 +1000
Subject: [governance] FW: Netmundial Initiative
In-Reply-To: <02fa01cfb743$8e1ab300$aa501900$@gmail.com>
References: <02e301cfb741$70ce9de0$526bd9a0$@gmail.com> <02fa01cfb743$8e1ab300$aa501900$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F734E8166BC44A0494E6CCBA495EC6C5@Toshiba>

you could go to town on the total imbalance of perspectives evident in choice of stakeholder representatives in every single category. Nice to see a few good civil society reps (along with some strange inclusions in that category), but the overall balance of the attendees is dominated by western perspectives (100% of academia, over 90% of business, etc). 

Ian Peter

From: michael gurstein 
Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2014 8:11 AM
To: members at justnetcoalition.org ; governance at lists.igcaucus.org 
Subject: [governance] FW: Netmundial Initiative

Evidently this has just been leaked.

 

http://t.co/xUxOf0AvLl

 

M

 

 

                                          NETmundial Initiative

During ICANN 50 in London, Fadi Chehadé, the president and CEO of ICANN, has announced the idea of creating a  NETMundial Initiative. 

After that, a launch event has been scheduled for August, 28th, in Geneva. There is no public information available about this initiative or event. 

Please help us and the public understand this better by submitting your documents.

 

Brief_NETmundial_Initiative.pdf             NETmundial Initiative - Briefing                                   August 13, 2014

Invitations_NETmundial_Initiative.pdf       Launch Event - List of invitees                                    August 13, 2014

Agenda_NETmundial_Initiative.pdf            Launch Event - Meeting Agenda                                      August 13, 2014

 

 

 



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From wjdrake at gmail.com  Wed Aug 13 21:52:16 2014
From: wjdrake at gmail.com (William Drake)
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 10:52:16 +0900
Subject: [governance] Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
In-Reply-To: <99c7da080a044cd4aaec7e681210e55b@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
References: <CANRKRpLVWhrQXVgcD=WQkyZhMwJD8=SuEWwibdEqW4sfxQWGmA@mail.gmail.com> <CANRKRpKLHwYjr48GRC7TQgB6ayUFq-DpVCMDKt2-rzO4e79sOQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com> <db1ffc796a464992a3e67e0645f0a95a@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu> <20140813131015.195c14b1@quill> <99c7da080a044cd4aaec7e681210e55b@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <1401B695-E4C7-4C4D-8E38-0F8B36C93632@gmail.com>

Hi

I asked the Turkish reps on the MAG list if there’d be courtesy visas as in previous years and they replied with the pick it up at a consulate/embassy solution.  I then asked if it would be possible to simply collect it upon arrival at the airport since getting to a consulate/embassy is not easy for everyone and they responded that one could pick it up at a consulate/embassy.  I took this to mean no it can’t be done, so unless we hear something else I wouldn’t advise simply assuming this will work.

Bill

On Aug 13, 2014, at 11:28 PM, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu> wrote:

> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> 
>> I'd expect that very likely the host country agreement between Turkey and
>> the UN foresees that it should be possible to pick up the free visa at Istanbul
>> airport.
> 
> Now that would make sense. That would actually be an offer that has value.
> 
> --MM
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


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From pranesh at cis-india.org  Thu Aug 14 00:28:58 2014
From: pranesh at cis-india.org (Pranesh Prakash)
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 00:28:58 -0400
Subject: [governance] FW: Netmundial Initiative
In-Reply-To: <F734E8166BC44A0494E6CCBA495EC6C5@Toshiba>
References: <02e301cfb741$70ce9de0$526bd9a0$@gmail.com> <02fa01cfb743$8e1ab300$aa501900$@gmail.com> <F734E8166BC44A0494E6CCBA495EC6C5@Toshiba>
Message-ID: <53EC3B0A.805@cis-india.org>

Some quick going-to-town figures on the imbalance:

A very quick/rushed survey shows 17 women out of 104 participants.

[all actors by their nationality / country of their institutional
affiliation x 104]

     36 USA
      9 Switzerland
      5 France
      4 United Kingdom
      4 Italy
      4 Germany
      4 Brazil
      3 South Africa
      2 Uruguay
      2 Singapore
      2 PR China
      2 Norway
      2 Netherlands
      2 South Korea
      2 Japan
      2 India
      2 Belgium
      2 Australia
      1 UAE
      1 Turkey
      1 Thailand
      1 Sweden
      1 Russia
      1 Nigeria
      1 Mauritius
      1 Macedonia
      1 Kenya
      1 Finland
      1 Estonia
      1 Egypt
      1 Cote D'Ivoire
      1 Costa Rica
      1 Colombia

By UN regional groupings:
WEOG	: 73
A-P	: 12
GRULAC	: 8
Africa	: 8
EEG	: 3

Total	: 104

[governments x 37]
      4 USA
      4 Brazil
      3 Germany
      2 Singapore
      2 Japan
      2 Italy
      2 France
      1 United Kingdom
      1 UAE
      1 Switzerland
      1 Sweden
      1 South Africa
      1 Russia
      1 PR China
      1 Norway
      1 Nigeria
      1 Macedonia
      1 Korea
      1 India
      1 Estonia
      1 Egypt
      1 Costa Rica
      1 Colombia
      1 Belgium
      1 Australia

[business x 34]

     19 USA
      3 United Kingdom
      3 France
      2 Italy
      1 Turkey
      1 South Africa
      1 Norway
      1 Netherlands
      1 Korea
      1 India
      1 Finland
      1 Business

[civil society x 15 (counting IGOs as 'civil society')]

      7 USA
      4 Switzerland
      1 Thailand
      1 South Africa
      1 Germany
      1 Cote D'Ivoire

[technical community x 14]

      6 USA
      3 Switzerland
      2 Uruguay
      1 PR China
      1 Netherlands
      1 Mauritius
      1 Kenya
      1 Belgium
      1 Australia

[World Economic Forum x 4]

      3 Switzerland
      1 USA



Ian Peter <ian.peter at ianpeter.com> [2014-08-14 08:39:32 +1000]:
> you could go to town on the total imbalance of perspectives evident in choice of stakeholder representatives in every single category. Nice to see a few good civil society reps (along with some strange inclusions in that category), but the overall balance of the attendees is dominated by western perspectives (100% of academia, over 90% of business, etc). 
> 
> Ian Peter
> 
> From: michael gurstein 
> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2014 8:11 AM
> To: members at justnetcoalition.org ; governance at lists.igcaucus.org 
> Subject: [governance] FW: Netmundial Initiative
> 
> Evidently this has just been leaked.
> 
>  
> 
> http://t.co/xUxOf0AvLl
> 
>  
> 
> M
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>                                           NETmundial Initiative
> 
> During ICANN 50 in London, Fadi Chehadé, the president and CEO of ICANN, has announced the idea of creating a  NETMundial Initiative. 
> 
> After that, a launch event has been scheduled for August, 28th, in Geneva. There is no public information available about this initiative or event. 
> 
> Please help us and the public understand this better by submitting your documents.
> 
>  
> 
> Brief_NETmundial_Initiative.pdf             NETmundial Initiative - Briefing                                   August 13, 2014
> 
> Invitations_NETmundial_Initiative.pdf       Launch Event - List of invitees                                    August 13, 2014
> 
> Agenda_NETmundial_Initiative.pdf            Launch Event - Meeting Agenda                                      August 13, 2014
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
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>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
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> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> 

-- 
Pranesh Prakash
Policy Director, Centre for Internet and Society
T: +91 80 40926283 | W: http://cis-india.org
-------------------
Access to Knowledge Fellow, Information Society Project, Yale Law School
M: +1 520 314 7147 | W: http://yaleisp.org
PGP ID: 0x1D5C5F07 | Twitter: https://twitter.com/pranesh_prakash

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From ajp at glocom.ac.jp  Thu Aug 14 01:35:34 2014
From: ajp at glocom.ac.jp (Adam)
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 14:35:34 +0900
Subject: [governance] FW: Netmundial Initiative
In-Reply-To: <53EC3B0A.805@cis-india.org>
References: <02e301cfb741$70ce9de0$526bd9a0$@gmail.com> <02fa01cfb743$8e1ab300$aa501900$@gmail.com> <F734E8166BC44A0494E6CCBA495EC6C5@Toshiba> <53EC3B0A.805@cis-india.org>
Message-ID: <FD582F9C-5898-45F6-8E04-DBF65AE6695E@glocom.ac.jp>

except the participant list seems wrong:  is Janis Karklins from Thailand?  and a few more.

Adam



On Aug 14, 2014, at 1:28 PM, Pranesh Prakash wrote:

> Some quick going-to-town figures on the imbalance:
> 
> A very quick/rushed survey shows 17 women out of 104 participants.
> 
> [all actors by their nationality / country of their institutional
> affiliation x 104]
> 
>     36 USA
>      9 Switzerland
>      5 France
>      4 United Kingdom
>      4 Italy
>      4 Germany
>      4 Brazil
>      3 South Africa
>      2 Uruguay
>      2 Singapore
>      2 PR China
>      2 Norway
>      2 Netherlands
>      2 South Korea
>      2 Japan
>      2 India
>      2 Belgium
>      2 Australia
>      1 UAE
>      1 Turkey
>      1 Thailand
>      1 Sweden
>      1 Russia
>      1 Nigeria
>      1 Mauritius
>      1 Macedonia
>      1 Kenya
>      1 Finland
>      1 Estonia
>      1 Egypt
>      1 Cote D'Ivoire
>      1 Costa Rica
>      1 Colombia
> 
> By UN regional groupings:
> WEOG	: 73
> A-P	: 12
> GRULAC	: 8
> Africa	: 8
> EEG	: 3
> 
> Total	: 104
> 
> [governments x 37]
>      4 USA
>      4 Brazil
>      3 Germany
>      2 Singapore
>      2 Japan
>      2 Italy
>      2 France
>      1 United Kingdom
>      1 UAE
>      1 Switzerland
>      1 Sweden
>      1 South Africa
>      1 Russia
>      1 PR China
>      1 Norway
>      1 Nigeria
>      1 Macedonia
>      1 Korea
>      1 India
>      1 Estonia
>      1 Egypt
>      1 Costa Rica
>      1 Colombia
>      1 Belgium
>      1 Australia
> 
> [business x 34]
> 
>     19 USA
>      3 United Kingdom
>      3 France
>      2 Italy
>      1 Turkey
>      1 South Africa
>      1 Norway
>      1 Netherlands
>      1 Korea
>      1 India
>      1 Finland
>      1 Business
> 
> [civil society x 15 (counting IGOs as 'civil society')]
> 
>      7 USA
>      4 Switzerland
>      1 Thailand
>      1 South Africa
>      1 Germany
>      1 Cote D'Ivoire
> 
> [technical community x 14]
> 
>      6 USA
>      3 Switzerland
>      2 Uruguay
>      1 PR China
>      1 Netherlands
>      1 Mauritius
>      1 Kenya
>      1 Belgium
>      1 Australia
> 
> [World Economic Forum x 4]
> 
>      3 Switzerland
>      1 USA
> 
> 
> 
> Ian Peter <ian.peter at ianpeter.com> [2014-08-14 08:39:32 +1000]:
>> you could go to town on the total imbalance of perspectives evident in choice of stakeholder representatives in every single category. Nice to see a few good civil society reps (along with some strange inclusions in that category), but the overall balance of the attendees is dominated by western perspectives (100% of academia, over 90% of business, etc). 
>> 
>> Ian Peter
>> 
>> From: michael gurstein 
>> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2014 8:11 AM
>> To: members at justnetcoalition.org ; governance at lists.igcaucus.org 
>> Subject: [governance] FW: Netmundial Initiative
>> 
>> Evidently this has just been leaked.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> http://t.co/xUxOf0AvLl
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> M
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>                                          NETmundial Initiative
>> 
>> During ICANN 50 in London, Fadi Chehadé, the president and CEO of ICANN, has announced the idea of creating a  NETMundial Initiative. 
>> 
>> After that, a launch event has been scheduled for August, 28th, in Geneva. There is no public information available about this initiative or event. 
>> 
>> Please help us and the public understand this better by submitting your documents.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Brief_NETmundial_Initiative.pdf             NETmundial Initiative - Briefing                                   August 13, 2014
>> 
>> Invitations_NETmundial_Initiative.pdf       Launch Event - List of invitees                                    August 13, 2014
>> 
>> Agenda_NETmundial_Initiative.pdf            Launch Event - Meeting Agenda                                      August 13, 2014
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> 
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> 
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Pranesh Prakash
> Policy Director, Centre for Internet and Society
> T: +91 80 40926283 | W: http://cis-india.org
> -------------------
> Access to Knowledge Fellow, Information Society Project, Yale Law School
> M: +1 520 314 7147 | W: http://yaleisp.org
> PGP ID: 0x1D5C5F07 | Twitter: https://twitter.com/pranesh_prakash
> 


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From chlebrum at gmail.com  Thu Aug 14 03:02:46 2014
From: chlebrum at gmail.com (chlebrum .)
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 09:02:46 +0200
Subject: [governance] FW: Netmundial Initiative
In-Reply-To: <53EC3B0A.805@cis-india.org>
References: <02e301cfb741$70ce9de0$526bd9a0$@gmail.com> <02fa01cfb743$8e1ab300$aa501900$@gmail.com>
 <F734E8166BC44A0494E6CCBA495EC6C5@Toshiba> <53EC3B0A.805@cis-india.org>
Message-ID: <CANMQhZgMeFa2K_WKEAqrzbNzfaTmDVj4PA7=HvTQacBucsuw5w@mail.gmail.com>

there is no one from the French government, only two representatives of
associations based in France. From the industry side there are two
operators and a multinational, Accenture.
I got the answer this morning from the person who represented the
government at the GAC, he will not be present at the IGF because its
hierarchy did not see the benefit to be there ...
That's all.

Chantal Lebrument


2014-08-14 6:28 GMT+02:00 Pranesh Prakash <pranesh at cis-india.org>:

> Some quick going-to-town figures on the imbalance:
>
> A very quick/rushed survey shows 17 women out of 104 participants.
>
> [all actors by their nationality / country of their institutional
> affiliation x 104]
>
>      36 USA
>       9 Switzerland
>       5 France
>       4 United Kingdom
>       4 Italy
>       4 Germany
>       4 Brazil
>       3 South Africa
>       2 Uruguay
>       2 Singapore
>       2 PR China
>       2 Norway
>       2 Netherlands
>       2 South Korea
>       2 Japan
>       2 India
>       2 Belgium
>       2 Australia
>       1 UAE
>       1 Turkey
>       1 Thailand
>       1 Sweden
>       1 Russia
>       1 Nigeria
>       1 Mauritius
>       1 Macedonia
>       1 Kenya
>       1 Finland
>       1 Estonia
>       1 Egypt
>       1 Cote D'Ivoire
>       1 Costa Rica
>       1 Colombia
>
> By UN regional groupings:
> WEOG    : 73
> A-P     : 12
> GRULAC  : 8
> Africa  : 8
> EEG     : 3
>
> Total   : 104
>
> [governments x 37]
>       4 USA
>       4 Brazil
>       3 Germany
>       2 Singapore
>       2 Japan
>       2 Italy
>       2 France
>       1 United Kingdom
>       1 UAE
>       1 Switzerland
>       1 Sweden
>       1 South Africa
>       1 Russia
>       1 PR China
>       1 Norway
>       1 Nigeria
>       1 Macedonia
>       1 Korea
>       1 India
>       1 Estonia
>       1 Egypt
>       1 Costa Rica
>       1 Colombia
>       1 Belgium
>       1 Australia
>
> [business x 34]
>
>      19 USA
>       3 United Kingdom
>       3 France
>       2 Italy
>       1 Turkey
>       1 South Africa
>       1 Norway
>       1 Netherlands
>       1 Korea
>       1 India
>       1 Finland
>       1 Business
>
> [civil society x 15 (counting IGOs as 'civil society')]
>
>       7 USA
>       4 Switzerland
>       1 Thailand
>       1 South Africa
>       1 Germany
>       1 Cote D'Ivoire
>
> [technical community x 14]
>
>       6 USA
>       3 Switzerland
>       2 Uruguay
>       1 PR China
>       1 Netherlands
>       1 Mauritius
>       1 Kenya
>       1 Belgium
>       1 Australia
>
> [World Economic Forum x 4]
>
>       3 Switzerland
>       1 USA
>
>
>
> Ian Peter <ian.peter at ianpeter.com> [2014-08-14 08:39:32 +1000]:
> > you could go to town on the total imbalance of perspectives evident in
> choice of stakeholder representatives in every single category. Nice to see
> a few good civil society reps (along with some strange inclusions in that
> category), but the overall balance of the attendees is dominated by western
> perspectives (100% of academia, over 90% of business, etc).
> >
> > Ian Peter
> >
> > From: michael gurstein
> > Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2014 8:11 AM
> > To: members at justnetcoalition.org ; governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> > Subject: [governance] FW: Netmundial Initiative
> >
> > Evidently this has just been leaked.
> >
> >
> >
> > http://t.co/xUxOf0AvLl
> >
> >
> >
> > M
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >                                           NETmundial Initiative
> >
> > During ICANN 50 in London, Fadi Chehadé, the president and CEO of ICANN,
> has announced the idea of creating a  NETMundial Initiative.
> >
> > After that, a launch event has been scheduled for August, 28th, in
> Geneva. There is no public information available about this initiative or
> event.
> >
> > Please help us and the public understand this better by submitting your
> documents.
> >
> >
> >
> > Brief_NETmundial_Initiative.pdf             NETmundial Initiative -
> Briefing                                   August 13, 2014
> >
> > Invitations_NETmundial_Initiative.pdf       Launch Event - List of
> invitees                                    August 13, 2014
> >
> > Agenda_NETmundial_Initiative.pdf            Launch Event - Meeting
> Agenda                                      August 13, 2014
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> > To be removed from the list, visit:
> >      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >
> > For all other list information and functions, see:
> >      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >      http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >
> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >
>
> --
> Pranesh Prakash
> Policy Director, Centre for Internet and Society
> T: +91 80 40926283 | W: http://cis-india.org
> -------------------
> Access to Knowledge Fellow, Information Society Project, Yale Law School
> M: +1 520 314 7147 | W: http://yaleisp.org
> PGP ID: 0x1D5C5F07 | Twitter: https://twitter.com/pranesh_prakash
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
Chantal Lebrument

​Courriel: lebrument at open-root.eu
Mob: +33 6 8369 5460
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From chlebrum at gmail.com  Thu Aug 14 03:32:05 2014
From: chlebrum at gmail.com (chlebrum .)
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 09:32:05 +0200
Subject: [governance] FW: Netmundial Initiative
In-Reply-To: <FD582F9C-5898-45F6-8E04-DBF65AE6695E@glocom.ac.jp>
References: <02e301cfb741$70ce9de0$526bd9a0$@gmail.com> <02fa01cfb743$8e1ab300$aa501900$@gmail.com>
 <F734E8166BC44A0494E6CCBA495EC6C5@Toshiba> <53EC3B0A.805@cis-india.org> <FD582F9C-5898-45F6-8E04-DBF65AE6695E@glocom.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <CANMQhZgk+2PjUGHOsiOr17jQgMBCfirj=LiTC94tyFk3G-P8Fg@mail.gmail.com>

In fact there is no one from the French government, only two
representatives of associations based in France. From the industry side
there are two operators (Free and Orange) plus Accenture, a multinational.
That's it.
I got the answer this morning from the person who represented the French
government in the GAC, he will not be present at the IGF because its
hierarchy did not see the benefit to be there ...
That's all.

Chantal Lebrument



2014-08-14 7:35 GMT+02:00 Adam <ajp at glocom.ac.jp>:

> except the participant list seems wrong:  is Janis Karklins from
> Thailand?  and a few more.
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> On Aug 14, 2014, at 1:28 PM, Pranesh Prakash wrote:
>
> > Some quick going-to-town figures on the imbalance:
> >
> > A very quick/rushed survey shows 17 women out of 104 participants.
> >
> > [all actors by their nationality / country of their institutional
> > affiliation x 104]
> >
> >     36 USA
> >      9 Switzerland
> >      5 France
> >      4 United Kingdom
> >      4 Italy
> >      4 Germany
> >      4 Brazil
> >      3 South Africa
> >      2 Uruguay
> >      2 Singapore
> >      2 PR China
> >      2 Norway
> >      2 Netherlands
> >      2 South Korea
> >      2 Japan
> >      2 India
> >      2 Belgium
> >      2 Australia
> >      1 UAE
> >      1 Turkey
> >      1 Thailand
> >      1 Sweden
> >      1 Russia
> >      1 Nigeria
> >      1 Mauritius
> >      1 Macedonia
> >      1 Kenya
> >      1 Finland
> >      1 Estonia
> >      1 Egypt
> >      1 Cote D'Ivoire
> >      1 Costa Rica
> >      1 Colombia
> >
> > By UN regional groupings:
> > WEOG  : 73
> > A-P   : 12
> > GRULAC        : 8
> > Africa        : 8
> > EEG   : 3
> >
> > Total : 104
> >
> > [governments x 37]
> >      4 USA
> >      4 Brazil
> >      3 Germany
> >      2 Singapore
> >      2 Japan
> >      2 Italy
> >      2 France
> >      1 United Kingdom
> >      1 UAE
> >      1 Switzerland
> >      1 Sweden
> >      1 South Africa
> >      1 Russia
> >      1 PR China
> >      1 Norway
> >      1 Nigeria
> >      1 Macedonia
> >      1 Korea
> >      1 India
> >      1 Estonia
> >      1 Egypt
> >      1 Costa Rica
> >      1 Colombia
> >      1 Belgium
> >      1 Australia
> >
> > [business x 34]
> >
> >     19 USA
> >      3 United Kingdom
> >      3 France
> >      2 Italy
> >      1 Turkey
> >      1 South Africa
> >      1 Norway
> >      1 Netherlands
> >      1 Korea
> >      1 India
> >      1 Finland
> >      1 Business
> >
> > [civil society x 15 (counting IGOs as 'civil society')]
> >
> >      7 USA
> >      4 Switzerland
> >      1 Thailand
> >      1 South Africa
> >      1 Germany
> >      1 Cote D'Ivoire
> >
> > [technical community x 14]
> >
> >      6 USA
> >      3 Switzerland
> >      2 Uruguay
> >      1 PR China
> >      1 Netherlands
> >      1 Mauritius
> >      1 Kenya
> >      1 Belgium
> >      1 Australia
> >
> > [World Economic Forum x 4]
> >
> >      3 Switzerland
> >      1 USA
> >
> >
> >
> > Ian Peter <ian.peter at ianpeter.com> [2014-08-14 08:39:32 +1000]:
> >> you could go to town on the total imbalance of perspectives evident in
> choice of stakeholder representatives in every single category. Nice to see
> a few good civil society reps (along with some strange inclusions in that
> category), but the overall balance of the attendees is dominated by western
> perspectives (100% of academia, over 90% of business, etc).
> >>
> >> Ian Peter
> >>
> >> From: michael gurstein
> >> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2014 8:11 AM
> >> To: members at justnetcoalition.org ; governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> >> Subject: [governance] FW: Netmundial Initiative
> >>
> >> Evidently this has just been leaked.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> http://t.co/xUxOf0AvLl
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> M
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>                                          NETmundial Initiative
> >>
> >> During ICANN 50 in London, Fadi Chehadé, the president and CEO of
> ICANN, has announced the idea of creating a  NETMundial Initiative.
> >>
> >> After that, a launch event has been scheduled for August, 28th, in
> Geneva. There is no public information available about this initiative or
> event.
> >>
> >> Please help us and the public understand this better by submitting your
> documents.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Brief_NETmundial_Initiative.pdf             NETmundial Initiative -
> Briefing                                   August 13, 2014
> >>
> >> Invitations_NETmundial_Initiative.pdf       Launch Event - List of
> invitees                                    August 13, 2014
> >>
> >> Agenda_NETmundial_Initiative.pdf            Launch Event - Meeting
> Agenda                                      August 13, 2014
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> ____________________________________________________________
> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> >> To be removed from the list, visit:
> >>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >>
> >> For all other list information and functions, see:
> >>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >>
> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >>
> >
> > --
> > Pranesh Prakash
> > Policy Director, Centre for Internet and Society
> > T: +91 80 40926283 | W: http://cis-india.org
> > -------------------
> > Access to Knowledge Fellow, Information Society Project, Yale Law School
> > M: +1 520 314 7147 | W: http://yaleisp.org
> > PGP ID: 0x1D5C5F07 | Twitter: https://twitter.com/pranesh_prakash
> >
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
Chantal Lebrument

​Courriel: lebrument at open-root.eu
Mob: +33 6 8369 5460
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From wolfgang.benedek at uni-graz.at  Thu Aug 14 05:20:05 2014
From: wolfgang.benedek at uni-graz.at (Benedek, Wolfgang (wolfgang.benedek@uni-graz.at))
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 11:20:05 +0200
Subject: [governance] Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
In-Reply-To: <1401B695-E4C7-4C4D-8E38-0F8B36C93632@gmail.com>
References: <CANRKRpLVWhrQXVgcD=WQkyZhMwJD8=SuEWwibdEqW4sfxQWGmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANRKRpKLHwYjr48GRC7TQgB6ayUFq-DpVCMDKt2-rzO4e79sOQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <db1ffc796a464992a3e67e0645f0a95a@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
 <20140813131015.195c14b1@quill>
 <99c7da080a044cd4aaec7e681210e55b@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
 <1401B695-E4C7-4C4D-8E38-0F8B36C93632@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D0124B36.6348D%wolfgang.benedek@uni-graz.at>

Just to inform that visas can be obtained at the airport for a fee of
about 20 Euro for certain nationals like myself.

So, this might be the easier solution.

But I do not know to which nationals this applies.

Best regards

Wolfgang Benedek







Am 14.08.14 03:52 schrieb "William Drake" unter <wjdrake at gmail.com>:

>Hi
>
>I asked the Turkish reps on the MAG list if there¹d be courtesy visas as
>in previous years and they replied with the pick it up at a
>consulate/embassy solution.  I then asked if it would be possible to
>simply collect it upon arrival at the airport since getting to a
>consulate/embassy is not easy for everyone and they responded that one
>could pick it up at a consulate/embassy.  I took this to mean no it can¹t
>be done, so unless we hear something else I wouldn¹t advise simply
>assuming this will work.
>
>Bill
>
>On Aug 13, 2014, at 11:28 PM, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu> wrote:
>
>> 
>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> 
>>> I'd expect that very likely the host country agreement between Turkey
>>>and
>>> the UN foresees that it should be possible to pick up the free visa at
>>>Istanbul
>>> airport.
>> 
>> Now that would make sense. That would actually be an offer that has
>>value.
>> 
>> --MM
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> 
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> 
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


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From suresh at hserus.net  Thu Aug 14 05:23:25 2014
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 04:23:25 -0500
Subject: [governance] Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
In-Reply-To: <D0124B36.6348D%wolfgang.benedek@uni-graz.at>
References: <CANRKRpLVWhrQXVgcD=WQkyZhMwJD8=SuEWwibdEqW4sfxQWGmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANRKRpKLHwYjr48GRC7TQgB6ayUFq-DpVCMDKt2-rzO4e79sOQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <db1ffc796a464992a3e67e0645f0a95a@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
 <20140813131015.195c14b1@quill>
 <99c7da080a044cd4aaec7e681210e55b@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
 <1401B695-E4C7-4C4D-8E38-0F8B36C93632@gmail.com>
 <D0124B36.6348D%wolfgang.benedek@uni-graz.at>
Message-ID: <20140814092325.GA6900@hserus.net>

Benedek, Wolfgang (wolfgang.benedek at uni-graz.at) [14/08/14 11:20 +0200]:
>Just to inform that visas can be obtained at the airport for a fee of
>about 20 Euro for certain nationals like myself.
>
>So, this might be the easier solution.
>
>But I do not know to which nationals this applies.

Not the nationals that face the most difficulty getting visas, generally :)

The bonus is that turkey does allow "e-visas" so you can apply online if
you don't mind paying the visa fee.

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From lorena at collaboratory.de  Thu Aug 14 05:31:44 2014
From: lorena at collaboratory.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lorena_Jaume-Palas=ED?=)
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 11:31:44 +0200
Subject: AW: Re: [governance] Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
Message-ID: <tia29bh2mhxqsm4ywx0w0tdp.1408008704866@email.android.com>

Here's an overview
www.mfa.gov.tr/visa-information-for-foreigners.en.mfa
If you download the document "fees for e-visas and on arrival" at the upper left side you will also get a list of the countries that can get a visa at the airport.
Cheers, Lorena




Von Samsung Galaxy Note gesendetSuresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net> hat geschrieben:Benedek, Wolfgang (wolfgang.benedek at uni-graz.at) [14/08/14 11:20 +0200]:
>Just to inform that visas can be obtained at the airport for a fee of
>about 20 Euro for certain nationals like myself.
>
>So, this might be the easier solution.
>
>But I do not know to which nationals this applies.

Not the nationals that face the most difficulty getting visas, generally :)

The bonus is that turkey does allow "e-visas" so you can apply online if
you don't mind paying the visa fee.

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From anriette at apc.org  Thu Aug 14 06:06:10 2014
From: anriette at apc.org (Anriette Esterhuysen)
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 12:06:10 +0200
Subject: [governance] =?UTF-8?Q?Global_Survey_on_Sexual_Rights_=26_Interne?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?t_Regulation_/_Sondage_sur_la_r=C3=A9gulation_de_l=27internet_e?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?t_les_droits_sexuels=2E?=
In-Reply-To: <53EC6221.2010501@apcwomen.org>
References: <53EC6221.2010501@apcwomen.org>
Message-ID: <53EC8A12.4090507@apc.org>

Dear all

APC's Global Survey on Sexual Rights & Internet Regulation

Please pass this around to all your networks.

Apologies for cross posting and for weird character conversions.

Please pass this around. It is available in 9 languages:

  * English <https://www.apc.org/limesurvey/index.php/731667/lang-en>
  * Spanish <https://www.apc.org/limesurvey/index.php/731667/lang-es>
  * French <https://www.apc.org/limesurvey/index.php/731667/lang-fr>
  * Arabic العربية <https://www.apc.org/limesurvey/index.php/731667/lang-ar>
  * Chinese <https://www.apc.org/limesurvey/index.php/731667/lang-zh-Hans>
    (simplified)
  * Portuguese <https://www.apc.org/limesurvey/index.php/731667/lang-pt>
  * Russian <http://www.apc.org/https//www.apc.org/limesurvey/index.php/731667/lang-ru>
  * Hindi <https://www.apc.org/limesurvey/index.php/731667/lang-hi>
  * Bahasa Indonesia <https://www.apc.org/limesurvey/index.php/731667/lang-id>

More information below.

Best

Anriette

-



(la version française de ce message ci-dessous. En español abajo)

The Association for Progressive Communications <https://apc.org> and its
Women’s Rights Program are inviting you to participate in a survey on Internet
regulation undertaken within the framework of its EROTICS project
(http://erotics.apc.org <http://erotics.apc.org/>).

*This survey aims to find out how activists working on sexuality rights
use the Internet in their work, and what difficulties they face in using it
freely and fully.
* So if you are an LGBT activist, SRHR activist, women's rights activist,
a queer blogger or a feminist, please take 15 minutes to fill in our survey in
any of the following languages:

  * English <https://www.apc.org/limesurvey/index.php/731667/lang-en>
  * Spanish <https://www.apc.org/limesurvey/index.php/731667/lang-es>
  * French <https://www.apc.org/limesurvey/index.php/731667/lang-fr>
  * Arabic العربية <https://www.apc.org/limesurvey/index.php/731667/lang-ar>
  * Chinese <https://www.apc.org/limesurvey/index.php/731667/lang-zh-Hans>
    (simplified)
  * Portuguese <https://www.apc.org/limesurvey/index.php/731667/lang-pt>
  * Russian <http://www.apc.org/https//www.apc.org/limesurvey/index.php/731667/lang-ru>
  * Hindi <https://www.apc.org/limesurvey/index.php/731667/lang-hi>
  * Bahasa Indonesia <https://www.apc.org/limesurvey/index.php/731667/lang-id>


This knowledge is important for us to explore strategic ways to support the
digital security of sexual rights activists and also to advocate for
gender & sexuality among internet rights activists. Results and findings from the
2013 survey can be found here <http://www.genderit.org/es/node/3838/>.

/*How You Can Help:*/

  * Please forward this survey to your organizations and networks of sexual
    rights activists and ask them to take it.

  * Post it on your blogs or organization websites.

  * Tweet or Facebook this post using #eroticsproject.

Please note that the deadline to fill in the survey is *September 12, 2014*.

/For more information regarding this survey:
//http://erotics.apc.org/article/2014-survey-now-launched/

//

/Questions? Please contact: Caroline Tagny (//caroline at apcwomen.org
<mailto:caroline at apcwomen.org>//) or Nadine Moawad (//nadine at apcwomen.org
<mailto:nadine at apcwomen.org>//)./

  ==================

[fr]


L'Association pour le Progrès des Communications <https://apc.org> et son
programme de droits des femmes vous invite à participer à un sondage sur la
régulation d'internet dans le cadre de son projet EROTICS
(http://erotics.apc.org <http://erotics.apc.org/>).

*Ce sondage vise à savoir comment les activistes travaillant sur les droits
sexuels utlisent internet dans le cadre de leur travail, et quelles sont
les difficultés qu'ils/elles rencontrent afin de l'utiliser librement et
pleinement.

* Si vous êtes activiste pour les LGBT, les SDSR ou les droits des femmes,
un/une blogueur(se) homosexuel(le) ou une féministe, veuillez prendre 15
minutes pour remplir notre questionnaire dans une des langues suivantes :

  * Anglais <https://www.apc.org/limesurvey/index.php/731667/lang-en>
  * Espagnol <https://www.apc.org/limesurvey/index.php/731667/lang-es>
  * Français <https://www.apc.org/limesurvey/index.php/731667/lang-fr>
  * Arabe العربية <https://www.apc.org/limesurvey/index.php/731667/lang-ar>
  * Chinois <https://www.apc.org/limesurvey/index.php/731667/lang-zh-Hans>
    (simplifié)
  * Portugais <https://www.apc.org/limesurvey/index.php/731667/lang-pt>
  * Russe <http://www.apc.org/https//www.apc.org/limesurvey/index.php/731667/lang-ru>
  * Hindi <https://www.apc.org/limesurvey/index.php/731667/lang-hi>
  * Bahasa Indonesia <https://www.apc.org/limesurvey/index.php/731667/lang-id>

Il est important d'acquérir cette connaissance pour trouver des moyens
stratégiques de soutenir les activistes travaillant pour la sécurité
numérique et les droits sexuels et pour plaider pour le genre et la sexualité
parmi les activistes des droits de l'internet. On peut consulter les résultats et les
conclusions du sondage de 2013 ici <http://www.genderit.org/es/node/3838/>.


/*Comment nous aider :*/

  * Veuillez envoyer le questionnaire à vos organisations et vos réseaux
    d'activistes des droits sexuels et demandez-leur d'y participer.

  * Affichez le sur vos blogues ou sur les sites de vos organisations.

  * Diffusez cet article sur Twitter ou Facebook en utilisant #eroticsproject.

La date limite pour remplir le questionnaire est le *12 septembre 2014*.

/Pour plus d'information sur ce sondage:
http://www.apc.org/fr/news/le-sexe-les-droits-et-linternet-sondage-sur-la-reg/

// /Questions? Veuillez contacter: Caroline Tagny (//caroline at apcwomen.org
<mailto:caroline at apcwomen.org>//) ou Nadine Moawad (//nadine at apcwomen.org
<mailto:nadine at apcwomen.org>//).


-



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From nursesacrosstheborders at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 14 06:49:20 2014
From: nursesacrosstheborders at yahoo.com (NURSES ACROSS THE BORDERS)
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 11:49:20 +0100
Subject: [governance] Fwd: RE: Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
In-Reply-To: <CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANRKRpLVWhrQXVgcD=WQkyZhMwJD8=SuEWwibdEqW4sfxQWGmA@mail.gmail.com>	<CANRKRpKLHwYjr48GRC7TQgB6ayUFq-DpVCMDKt2-rzO4e79sOQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1408013360.55711.YahooMailNeo@web172506.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>

Thank you Subi.

I do not know if other organizations are facing the problems we are facing with the IGF Secretariat that has refused to confirm the participation of our members at the event.
Right now, we have escalated the matter to the highest quarters at the UN DESA in New York and shall get all posted on the developments.

Why deliberate subtle efforts are made to restrict and constrict CS Participation beats our imagination.  This of course is not the making of the host country, but by some over zealous officials at the IGF Secretariat... 

We are fighting on...till justice is done.
Best
 
Pastor Peters Osawaru OMORAGBON, 

Treasurer, Central Association of Nigerians in the UK-CANUK 

Executive President/CEO-Nurses Across the Borders Inc.(USA & NIGERIA) 
President, Diaspora Nurses Association of Nigeria- DNAN   
International Liaison Officer, Nigerian Nurses Charitable Association-UK (NNCA-UK 
General Secretary, Civil Society Network on Climate Change in Nigeria    

Fellow-Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers- ICANN Fellow-Open Society Institute, BudapestDesignated Focal Person-United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change- UNFCCC in Nigeria 
Board Member, Conference of NGOs in Consultative Relationship with the UN- CONGO 

Member, Steering Committee, Regional Committee for Africa-Conference of NGOs in Consultative Relationship with the UN- CONGO
Tel: +441438729726, +234-8052658024,
Email: nursesacrosstheborders at yahoo.com, petersomoragbon2 at yahoo.co.uk, 

www.nursesacrosstheborders.org


On Tuesday, 12 August 2014, 10:12, Subi Chaturvedi <subi.igp at gmail.com> wrote:
 


Dear all,
Heads up on the IGF 2014 participation.  Government of Turkey has confirmed courtesy visas for all.
They will however need you to apply at your local Turkish Embassy/ Mission in person.
The letter confirming your paticipation at the IGF and the visa support letter will entitle you to the visa application fee waiver ( Courtesy Visa).
Hope to see you all in large numbers at the IGF. Thanks Bill for raising the issue.Glad to see that this story has a happy ending.
In addition to the Visa we'd also put out a call to raise funding support for civil society and academia participants. Most major organisations are past their application deadlines. But this is a shout out to all CS networks and donors to pool resources and assist others. Large universities and grant making bodies included, through travel grants/fellowships. Even if you can do part funding it will amplify CS participation.
Given the fact that we are close to the #post2015 agenda we must be present physically in large nos. Though we have remote participation, there's nothing like being there.
This year there's also a designated Open space which allows for greater engagement and informal spontaneous discussions.
I'd also like to see greater synergies between different networks in amplyfying support for each other and becoming enablers. ( Just my Santa wishlist).
If possible donors could volunteer then co-cos could maybe match the receipients organically with donors off-list. I am aware of many worthy participants/ experts and new comers who would add tremendous value by being there. Let's try and do all that we can to facilitate their presence-Our presence at the IGF.
Warmest
Subi Chaturvedi
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr>
> Date: 12 Aug 2014 11:49
> Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
> To: "Subi Chaturvedi" <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
> Cc: "visa" <visa at igf2014.org.tr>, "Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org" <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>, "Aysel KANDEMİR" <akandemir at btk.gov.tr>
>
> > Dear Ms. Chaturvedi,
> >
> >  
> >
> > Dear Sir/Madam,
> >
> >  
> >
> > All IGF participants will be given a visa without fee by Turkish missions abroad when they submit the “IGF Registration Confirmation Letter” including civil society, academia and business participants.
> >
> >  
> >
> > Looking forward to see you all in Istanbul.
> >
> >  
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> >  
> >
> > Samet Tuncer
> >
> >  
> >
> > From: Subi Chaturvedi [mailto:subichaturvedi at gmail.com]
> > Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 5:35 PM
> > To: Samet TUNCER
> > Cc: visa;Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org; Aysel KANDEMİR
> > Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
> >
> >  
> >
> > Dear Samet,
> >
> > Many thanks for this wonderful gesture. We respect your compulsions and remain immensely grateful to you, our wonderful and generous hosts.
> >
> > The solution is acceptable and welcome. I do have a question is this valid for all the IGF participants?
> >
> > This would be great for all the civil society, academia and small business participatants who come and paticipate in the IGF against all odds and enrich the discourse.
> >
> > I thank you again for playing our gracious hosts.
> >
> > Looking forward to the best ever IGF.
> >
> > Warmest
> >
> > Subi
> >
> > On 11 Aug 2014 19:06, "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr> wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Sir/Madam,
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > > As a result of our correspondence with Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs, it seems impossible to reimburse the costs of visa application fee at the IGF venue due to internal rules of the Ministry. In this respect, we encourage you to apply Turkish embassies and consulates directly for visa. IGF Registration Confirmation Letter will be enough to get visa without fee according to a communique issued by Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs dated 21/07/2014 Ref No. KVUD/6749221.
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > > Samet
> > >
> > >  
> > >>
> > >> From: Subi Chaturvedi <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
> > >> Date: 9 Ağustos 2014 09:09:40 GMT+3
> > >> To: Noël Yao <noelyao2002 at yahoo.fr>, CAVUSOGLU Ahmet Erdinç <acavusoglu at btk.gov.tr>
> > >> Cc: "amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr" <amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr>, IGF <IGF at unog.ch>, MAG-public <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>
> > >> Subject: Re: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
> > >>
> > >> Dear All,
> > >>
> > >>  
> > >>
> > >> Reiterating the request for courtesy visa's for IGF participants. As has been the previous practice. The previous hosts have been able to successfully set up kiosks at the IGF venues and reimburse participants the cost towards the visa application fee. It is a positive gesture and deserves all attempts at prolongation and continuity.
> > >>
> > >>  
> > >>
> > >> Regards
> > >>
> > >>  
> > >>
> > >> Subi
> > >>
____________________________________________________________
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From francois.ullmann at ingenieursdumonde.org  Thu Aug 14 07:17:11 2014
From: francois.ullmann at ingenieursdumonde.org (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois?= Ullmann)
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 13:17:11 +0200
Subject: [governance] Fwd: RE: Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
In-Reply-To: <1408013360.55711.YahooMailNeo@web172506.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1408015031-3bf58eb3c3360e7a033ec71a68f112ad@ingenieursdumonde.org>

I refuse to go in Turkey

Dr. Francois ULLMANN

President of "Ingenieurs du Monde"

www.ingenieursdumonde.org

 	----- Message d'origine -----	
De: NURSES ACROSS THE BORDERS <nursesacrosstheborders at yahoo.com>	
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 11:49:20 +0100	
Sujet: Re: [governance] Fwd: RE: Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding	
À: "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>,         "bestbits at lists.bestbits.net" <bestbits at lists.bestbits.net>,         Subi Chaturvedi <subi.igp at gmail.com>,         "igf2012visa at gmail.com" <igf2012visa at gmail.com>,         "info at igf2014.org.tr" <info at igf2014.org.tr>	
Thank you Subi.
I do not know if other organizations are facing the problems we are facing with the IGF Secretariat that has refused to confirm the participation of our members at the event.Right now, we have escalated the matter to the highest quarters at the UN DESA in New York and shall get all posted on the developments.
Why deliberate subtle efforts are made to restrict and constrict CS Participation beats our imagination.  This of course is not the making of the host country, but by some over zealous officials at the IGF Secretariat... 
We are fighting on...till justice is done.Best Pastor Peters Osawaru OMORAGBON, 
 
Treasurer, Central Association of Nigerians in the UK-CANUK 
 
Executive President/CEO-Nurses Across the Borders Inc.(USA & NIGERIA) 
President, Diaspora Nurses Association of Nigeria- DNAN   
International Liaison Officer, Nigerian Nurses Charitable Association-UK (NNCA-UK 
General Secretary, Civil Society Network on Climate Change in Nigeria     
 
Fellow-Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers- ICANN Fellow-Open Society Institute, BudapestDesignated Focal Person-United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change- UNFCCC in Nigeria Board Member, Conference of NGOs in Consultative Relationship with the UN- CONGO 
 
Member, Steering Committee, Regional Committee for Africa-Conference of NGOs in Consultative Relationship with the UN- CONGOTel: +441438729726, +234-8052658024,Email: nursesacrosstheborders at yahoo.com, petersomoragbon2 at yahoo.co.uk,  
 
www.nursesacrosstheborders.org

 On Tuesday, 12 August 2014, 10:12, Subi Chaturvedi <subi.igp at gmail.com> wrote:
 

Dear all,Heads up on the IGF 2014 participation.  Government of Turkey has confirmed courtesy visas for all.They will however need you to apply at your local Turkish Embassy/ Mission in person.The letter confirming your paticipation at the IGF and the visa support letter will entitle you to the visa application fee waiver ( Courtesy Visa).Hope to see you all in large numbers at the IGF. Thanks Bill for raising the issue.Glad to see that this story has a happy ending.In addition to the Visa we'd also put out a call to raise funding support for civil society and academia participants. Most major organisations are past their application deadlines. But this is a shout out to all CS networks and donors to pool resources and assist others. Large universities and grant making bodies included, through travel grants/fellowships. Even if you can do part funding it will amplify CS participation.Given the fact that we are close to the #post2015 agenda we must be present physically in large nos. Though we have remote participation, there's nothing like being there.This year there's also a designated Open space which allows for greater engagement and informal spontaneous discussions.I'd also like to see greater synergies between different networks in amplyfying support for each other and becoming enablers. ( Just my Santa wishlist).If possible donors could volunteer then co-cos could maybe match the receipients organically with donors off-list. I am aware of many worthy participants/ experts and new comers who would add tremendous value by being there. Let's try and do all that we can to facilitate their presence-Our presence at the IGF.WarmestSubi Chaturvedi> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
 > From: "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr>
 > Date: 12 Aug 2014 11:49
 > Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
 > To: "Subi Chaturvedi" <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
 > Cc: "visa" <visa at igf2014.org.tr>, "Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org" <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>, "Aysel KANDEMİR" <akandemir at btk.gov.tr>
 >
 > > Dear Ms. Chaturvedi,
 > >
 > >  
 > >
 > > Dear Sir/Madam,
 > >
 > >  
 > >
 > > All IGF participants will be given a visa without fee by Turkish missions abroad when they submit the &ldquo;IGF Registration Confirmation Letter&rdquo; including civil society, academia and business participants.
 > >
 > >  
 > >
 > > Looking forward to see you all in Istanbul.
 > >
 > >  
 > >
 > > Best regards,
 > >
 > >  
 > >
 > > Samet Tuncer
 > >
 > >  
 > >
 > > From: Subi Chaturvedi [mailto:subichaturvedi at gmail.com]
 > > Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 5:35 PM
 > > To: Samet TUNCER
 > > Cc: visa;Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org; Aysel KANDEMİR
 > > Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
 > >
 > >  
 > >
 > > Dear Samet,
 > >
 > > Many thanks for this wonderful gesture. We respect your compulsions and remain immensely grateful to you, our wonderful and generous hosts.
 > >
 > > The solution is acceptable and welcome. I do have a question is this valid for all the IGF participants?
 > >
 > > This would be great for all the civil society, academia and small business participatants who come and paticipate in the IGF against all odds and enrich the discourse.
 > >
 > > I thank you again for playing our gracious hosts.
 > >
 > > Looking forward to the best ever IGF.
 > >
 > > Warmest
 > >
 > > Subi
 > >
 > > On 11 Aug 2014 19:06, "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr> wrote:
 > > >
 > > > Dear Sir/Madam,
 > > >
 > > >  
 > > >
 > > > As a result of our correspondence with Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs, it seems impossible to reimburse the costs of visa application fee at the IGF venue due to internal rules of the Ministry. In this respect, we encourage you to apply Turkish embassies and consulates directly for visa. IGF Registration Confirmation Letter will be enough to get visa without fee according to a communique issued by Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs dated 21/07/2014 Ref No. KVUD/6749221.
 > > >
 > > >  
 > > >
 > > > Regards,
 > > >
 > > >  
 > > >
 > > > Samet
 > > >
 > > >  
 > > >>
 > > >> From: Subi Chaturvedi <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
 > > >> Date: 9 Ağustos 2014 09:09:40 GMT+3
 > > >> To: Noël Yao <noelyao2002 at yahoo.fr>, CAVUSOGLU Ahmet Erdinç <acavusoglu at btk.gov.tr>
 > > >> Cc: "amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr" <amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr>, IGF <IGF at unog.ch>, MAG-public <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>
 > > >> Subject: Re: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
 > > >>
 > > >> Dear All,
 > > >>
 > > >>  
 > > >>
 > > >> Reiterating the request for courtesy visa's for IGF participants. As has been the previous practice. The previous hosts have been able to successfully set up kiosks at the IGF venues and reimburse participants the cost towards the visa application fee. It is a positive gesture and deserves all attempts at prolongation and continuity.
 > > >>
 > > >>  
 > > >>
 > > >> Regards
 > > >>
 > > >>  
 > > >>
 > > >> Subi
 > > >>
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

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From chlebrum at gmail.com  Thu Aug 14 07:24:43 2014
From: chlebrum at gmail.com (chlebrum .)
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 13:24:43 +0200
Subject: [governance] Fwd: RE: Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
In-Reply-To: <1408015031-3bf58eb3c3360e7a033ec71a68f112ad@ingenieursdumonde.org>
References: <1408013360.55711.YahooMailNeo@web172506.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <1408015031-3bf58eb3c3360e7a033ec71a68f112ad@ingenieursdumonde.org>
Message-ID: <CANMQhZhOoBJv8yOQoTV=nHiQgGWvoB29G2CgCnGkCYS916AR3w@mail.gmail.com>

First time I heard about a negative response to attend an IGF...

Chantal Lebrument


2014-08-14 13:17 GMT+02:00 François Ullmann <
francois.ullmann at ingenieursdumonde.org>:

> I refuse to go in Turkey
>
> Dr. Francois ULLMANN
>
> President of "Ingenieurs du Monde"
>
> www.ingenieursdumonde.org
>       ----- Message d'origine -----  *De:* NURSES ACROSS THE BORDERS <
> nursesacrosstheborders at yahoo.com>  *Date:* Thu, 14 Aug 2014 11:49:20 +0100
> *Sujet:* Re: [governance] Fwd: RE: Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
> *À:* "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>, "
> bestbits at lists.bestbits.net" <bestbits at lists.bestbits.net>, Subi
> Chaturvedi <subi.igp at gmail.com>, "igf2012visa at gmail.com" <
> igf2012visa at gmail.com>, "info at igf2014.org.tr" <info at igf2014.org.tr>
> Thank you Subi.
>
> I do not know if other organizations are facing the problems we are facing
> with the IGF Secretariat that has refused to confirm the participation of
> our members at the event.
> Right now, we have escalated the matter to the highest quarters at the UN
> DESA in New York and shall get all posted on the developments.
>
> Why deliberate subtle efforts are made to restrict and constrict CS
> Participation beats our imagination.  This of course is not the making of
> the host country, but by some over zealous officials at the IGF
> Secretariat...
>
> We are fighting on...till justice is done.
> Best
>
> Pastor Peters Osawaru OMORAGBON,
>
> Treasurer, Central Association of Nigerians in the UK-CANUK
>
> Executive President/CEO-Nurses Across the Borders Inc.(USA & NIGERIA)
> President, Diaspora Nurses Association of Nigeria- DNAN
> International Liaison Officer, Nigerian Nurses Charitable Association-UK
> (NNCA-UK
> General Secretary, Civil Society Network on Climate Change in Nigeria
>
> Fellow-Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers- ICANN
> Fellow-Open Society Institute, BudapestDesignated Focal Person-United
> Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change- UNFCCC in Nigeria
> Board Member, Conference of NGOs in Consultative Relationship with the UN-
> CONGO
>
> Member, Steering Committee, Regional Committee for Africa-Conference of
> NGOs in Consultative Relationship with the UN- CONGO
> Tel: +441438729726, +234-8052658024,
> Email: nursesacrosstheborders at yahoo.com, petersomoragbon2 at yahoo.co.uk,
>
> www.nursesacrosstheborders.org
>
>
>   On Tuesday, 12 August 2014, 10:12, Subi Chaturvedi <subi.igp at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>  Dear all,
> Heads up on the IGF 2014 participation.  Government of Turkey has
> confirmed courtesy visas for all.
> They will however need you to apply at your local Turkish Embassy/ Mission
> in person.
> The letter confirming your paticipation at the IGF and the visa support
> letter will entitle you to the visa application fee waiver ( Courtesy Visa).
> Hope to see you all in large numbers at the IGF. Thanks Bill for raising
> the issue.Glad to see that this story has a happy ending.
> In addition to the Visa we'd also put out a call to raise funding support
> for civil society and academia participants. Most major organisations are
> past their application deadlines. But this is a shout out to all CS
> networks and donors to pool resources and assist others. Large universities
> and grant making bodies included, through travel grants/fellowships. Even
> if you can do part funding it will amplify CS participation.
> Given the fact that we are close to the #post2015 agenda we must be
> present physically in large nos. Though we have remote participation,
> there's nothing like being there.
> This year there's also a designated Open space which allows for greater
> engagement and informal spontaneous discussions.
> I'd also like to see greater synergies between different networks in
> amplyfying support for each other and becoming enablers. ( Just my Santa
> wishlist).
> If possible donors could volunteer then co-cos could maybe match the
> receipients organically with donors off-list. I am aware of many worthy
> participants/ experts and new comers who would add tremendous value by
> being there. Let's try and do all that we can to facilitate their
> presence-Our presence at the IGF.
> Warmest
> Subi Chaturvedi
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr>
> > Date: 12 Aug 2014 11:49
> > Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
> > To: "Subi Chaturvedi" <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
> > Cc: "visa" <visa at igf2014.org.tr>, "Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org" <
> Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>, "Aysel KANDEMİR" <akandemir at btk.gov.tr>
> >
> > > Dear Ms. Chaturvedi,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Sir/Madam,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > All IGF participants will be given a visa without fee by Turkish
> missions abroad when they submit the “IGF Registration Confirmation Letter”
> including civil society, academia and business participants.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Looking forward to see you all in Istanbul.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Samet Tuncer
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Subi Chaturvedi [mailto:subichaturvedi at gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 5:35 PM
> > > To: Samet TUNCER
> > > Cc: visa;Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org; Aysel KANDEMİR
> > > Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Samet,
> > >
> > > Many thanks for this wonderful gesture. We respect your compulsions
> and remain immensely grateful to you, our wonderful and generous hosts.
> > >
> > > The solution is acceptable and welcome. I do have a question is this
> valid for all the IGF participants?
> > >
> > > This would be great for all the civil society, academia and small
> business participatants who come and paticipate in the IGF against all odds
> and enrich the discourse.
> > >
> > > I thank you again for playing our gracious hosts.
> > >
> > > Looking forward to the best ever IGF.
> > >
> > > Warmest
> > >
> > > Subi
> > >
> > > On 11 Aug 2014 19:06, "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dear Sir/Madam,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > As a result of our correspondence with Turkish Ministry of Foreign
> Affairs, it seems impossible to reimburse the costs of visa application fee
> at the IGF venue due to internal rules of the Ministry. In this respect, we
> encourage you to apply Turkish embassies and consulates directly for visa.
> IGF Registration Confirmation Letter will be enough to get visa without fee
> according to a communique issued by Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs
> dated 21/07/2014 Ref No. KVUD/6749221.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Samet
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >> From: Subi Chaturvedi <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
> > > >> Date: 9 Ağustos 2014 09:09:40 GMT+3
> > > >> To: Noël Yao <noelyao2002 at yahoo.fr>, CAVUSOGLU Ahmet Erdinç <
> acavusoglu at btk.gov.tr>
> > > >> Cc: "amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr" <amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr>, IGF <
> IGF at unog.ch>, MAG-public <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>
> > > >> Subject: Re: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
> > > >>
> > > >> Dear All,
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Reiterating the request for courtesy visa's for IGF participants.
> As has been the previous practice. The previous hosts have been able to
> successfully set up kiosks at the IGF venues and reimburse participants the
> cost towards the visa application fee. It is a positive gesture and
> deserves all attempts at prolongation and continuity.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Regards
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Subi
> > > >>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
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>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
Chantal Lebrument

​Courriel: lebrument at open-root.eu
Mob: +33 6 8369 5460
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From jam at jacquelinemorris.com  Thu Aug 14 11:24:31 2014
From: jam at jacquelinemorris.com (Jacqueline Morris)
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 11:24:31 -0400
Subject: [governance] FW: Netmundial Initiative
In-Reply-To: <CANMQhZgk+2PjUGHOsiOr17jQgMBCfirj=LiTC94tyFk3G-P8Fg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <02e301cfb741$70ce9de0$526bd9a0$@gmail.com>
	<02fa01cfb743$8e1ab300$aa501900$@gmail.com>
	<F734E8166BC44A0494E6CCBA495EC6C5@Toshiba>
	<53EC3B0A.805@cis-india.org>
	<FD582F9C-5898-45F6-8E04-DBF65AE6695E@glocom.ac.jp>
	<CANMQhZgk+2PjUGHOsiOr17jQgMBCfirj=LiTC94tyFk3G-P8Fg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADVv0CLCSM8qVqp3bLv9BjAbd1TAXu3POkqwAViXMdyXqTRyoQ@mail.gmail.com>

I guess the Caribbean and other SIS don't count?

Jacqueline A. Morris
Technology should be like oxygen: Ubiquitous, Necessary, Invisible and
Free. (after Chris Lehmann <http://twitter.com/chrislehmann> )


On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 3:32 AM, chlebrum . <chlebrum at gmail.com> wrote:

> In fact there is no one from the French government, only two
> representatives of associations based in France. From the industry side
> there are two operators (Free and Orange) plus Accenture, a multinational.
> That's it.
> I got the answer this morning from the person who represented the French
> government in the GAC, he will not be present at the IGF because its
> hierarchy did not see the benefit to be there ...
> That's all.
>
> Chantal Lebrument
>
>
>
> 2014-08-14 7:35 GMT+02:00 Adam <ajp at glocom.ac.jp>:
>
> except the participant list seems wrong:  is Janis Karklins from
>> Thailand?  and a few more.
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 14, 2014, at 1:28 PM, Pranesh Prakash wrote:
>>
>> > Some quick going-to-town figures on the imbalance:
>> >
>> > A very quick/rushed survey shows 17 women out of 104 participants.
>> >
>> > [all actors by their nationality / country of their institutional
>> > affiliation x 104]
>> >
>> >     36 USA
>> >      9 Switzerland
>> >      5 France
>> >      4 United Kingdom
>> >      4 Italy
>> >      4 Germany
>> >      4 Brazil
>> >      3 South Africa
>> >      2 Uruguay
>> >      2 Singapore
>> >      2 PR China
>> >      2 Norway
>> >      2 Netherlands
>> >      2 South Korea
>> >      2 Japan
>> >      2 India
>> >      2 Belgium
>> >      2 Australia
>> >      1 UAE
>> >      1 Turkey
>> >      1 Thailand
>> >      1 Sweden
>> >      1 Russia
>> >      1 Nigeria
>> >      1 Mauritius
>> >      1 Macedonia
>> >      1 Kenya
>> >      1 Finland
>> >      1 Estonia
>> >      1 Egypt
>> >      1 Cote D'Ivoire
>> >      1 Costa Rica
>> >      1 Colombia
>> >
>> > By UN regional groupings:
>> > WEOG  : 73
>> > A-P   : 12
>> > GRULAC        : 8
>> > Africa        : 8
>> > EEG   : 3
>> >
>> > Total : 104
>> >
>> > [governments x 37]
>> >      4 USA
>> >      4 Brazil
>> >      3 Germany
>> >      2 Singapore
>> >      2 Japan
>> >      2 Italy
>> >      2 France
>> >      1 United Kingdom
>> >      1 UAE
>> >      1 Switzerland
>> >      1 Sweden
>> >      1 South Africa
>> >      1 Russia
>> >      1 PR China
>> >      1 Norway
>> >      1 Nigeria
>> >      1 Macedonia
>> >      1 Korea
>> >      1 India
>> >      1 Estonia
>> >      1 Egypt
>> >      1 Costa Rica
>> >      1 Colombia
>> >      1 Belgium
>> >      1 Australia
>> >
>> > [business x 34]
>> >
>> >     19 USA
>> >      3 United Kingdom
>> >      3 France
>> >      2 Italy
>> >      1 Turkey
>> >      1 South Africa
>> >      1 Norway
>> >      1 Netherlands
>> >      1 Korea
>> >      1 India
>> >      1 Finland
>> >      1 Business
>> >
>> > [civil society x 15 (counting IGOs as 'civil society')]
>> >
>> >      7 USA
>> >      4 Switzerland
>> >      1 Thailand
>> >      1 South Africa
>> >      1 Germany
>> >      1 Cote D'Ivoire
>> >
>> > [technical community x 14]
>> >
>> >      6 USA
>> >      3 Switzerland
>> >      2 Uruguay
>> >      1 PR China
>> >      1 Netherlands
>> >      1 Mauritius
>> >      1 Kenya
>> >      1 Belgium
>> >      1 Australia
>> >
>> > [World Economic Forum x 4]
>> >
>> >      3 Switzerland
>> >      1 USA
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Ian Peter <ian.peter at ianpeter.com> [2014-08-14 08:39:32 +1000]:
>> >> you could go to town on the total imbalance of perspectives evident in
>> choice of stakeholder representatives in every single category. Nice to see
>> a few good civil society reps (along with some strange inclusions in that
>> category), but the overall balance of the attendees is dominated by western
>> perspectives (100% of academia, over 90% of business, etc).
>> >>
>> >> Ian Peter
>> >>
>> >> From: michael gurstein
>> >> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2014 8:11 AM
>> >> To: members at justnetcoalition.org ; governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> >> Subject: [governance] FW: Netmundial Initiative
>> >>
>> >> Evidently this has just been leaked.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> http://t.co/xUxOf0AvLl
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> M
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>                                          NETmundial Initiative
>> >>
>> >> During ICANN 50 in London, Fadi Chehadé, the president and CEO of
>> ICANN, has announced the idea of creating a  NETMundial Initiative.
>> >>
>> >> After that, a launch event has been scheduled for August, 28th, in
>> Geneva. There is no public information available about this initiative or
>> event.
>> >>
>> >> Please help us and the public understand this better by submitting
>> your documents.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Brief_NETmundial_Initiative.pdf             NETmundial Initiative -
>> Briefing                                   August 13, 2014
>> >>
>> >> Invitations_NETmundial_Initiative.pdf       Launch Event - List of
>> invitees                                    August 13, 2014
>> >>
>> >> Agenda_NETmundial_Initiative.pdf            Launch Event - Meeting
>> Agenda                                      August 13, 2014
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> ____________________________________________________________
>> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>> >>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> >> To be removed from the list, visit:
>> >>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> >>
>> >> For all other list information and functions, see:
>> >>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>> >>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> >>
>> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
>> > Pranesh Prakash
>> > Policy Director, Centre for Internet and Society
>> > T: +91 80 40926283 | W: http://cis-india.org
>> > -------------------
>> > Access to Knowledge Fellow, Information Society Project, Yale Law School
>> > M: +1 520 314 7147 | W: http://yaleisp.org
>> > PGP ID: 0x1D5C5F07 | Twitter: https://twitter.com/pranesh_prakash
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Chantal Lebrument
>
> ​Courriel: lebrument at open-root.eu
> Mob: +33 6 8369 5460
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Thu Aug 14 12:13:26 2014
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 12:13:26 -0400
Subject: [governance] FW: Netmundial Initiative
In-Reply-To: <CADVv0CLCSM8qVqp3bLv9BjAbd1TAXu3POkqwAViXMdyXqTRyoQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <02e301cfb741$70ce9de0$526bd9a0$@gmail.com>	<02fa01cfb743$8e1ab300$aa501900$@gmail.com>	<F734E8166BC44A0494E6CCBA495EC6C5@Toshiba>	<53EC3B0A.805@cis-india.org>	<FD582F9C-5898-45F6-8E04-DBF65AE6695E@glocom.ac.jp>	<CANMQhZgk+2PjUGHOsiOr17jQgMBCfirj=LiTC94tyFk3G-P8Fg@mail.gmail.com> <CADVv0CLCSM8qVqp3bLv9BjAbd1TAXu3POkqwAViXMdyXqTRyoQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53ECE026.9010300@mail.utoronto.ca>

Noone from Canada either...
On 2014-08-14, 11:24, Jacqueline Morris wrote:
> I guess the Caribbean and other SIS don't count?
>
> Jacqueline A. Morris
> Technology should be like oxygen: Ubiquitous, Necessary, Invisible and 
> Free. (after Chris Lehmann <http://twitter.com/chrislehmann> )
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 3:32 AM, chlebrum . <chlebrum at gmail.com 
> <mailto:chlebrum at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     In fact there is no one from the French government, only two
>     representatives of associations based in France. From the industry
>     side there are two operators (Free and Orange) plus Accenture, a
>     multinational. That's it.
>     I got the answer this morning from the person who represented the
>     French government in the GAC, he will not be present at the IGF
>     because its hierarchy did not see the benefit to be there ...
>     That's all.
>
>     Chantal Lebrument
>
>
>
>     2014-08-14 7:35 GMT+02:00 Adam <ajp at glocom.ac.jp
>     <mailto:ajp at glocom.ac.jp>>:
>
>         except the participant list seems wrong:  is Janis Karklins
>         from Thailand?  and a few more.
>
>         Adam
>
>
>
>         On Aug 14, 2014, at 1:28 PM, Pranesh Prakash wrote:
>
>         > Some quick going-to-town figures on the imbalance:
>         >
>         > A very quick/rushed survey shows 17 women out of 104
>         participants.
>         >
>         > [all actors by their nationality / country of their
>         institutional
>         > affiliation x 104]
>         >
>         >     36 USA
>         >      9 Switzerland
>         >      5 France
>         >      4 United Kingdom
>         >      4 Italy
>         >      4 Germany
>         >      4 Brazil
>         >      3 South Africa
>         >      2 Uruguay
>         >      2 Singapore
>         >      2 PR China
>         >      2 Norway
>         >      2 Netherlands
>         >      2 South Korea
>         >      2 Japan
>         >      2 India
>         >      2 Belgium
>         >      2 Australia
>         >      1 UAE
>         >      1 Turkey
>         >      1 Thailand
>         >      1 Sweden
>         >      1 Russia
>         >      1 Nigeria
>         >      1 Mauritius
>         >      1 Macedonia
>         >      1 Kenya
>         >      1 Finland
>         >      1 Estonia
>         >      1 Egypt
>         >      1 Cote D'Ivoire
>         >      1 Costa Rica
>         >      1 Colombia
>         >
>         > By UN regional groupings:
>         > WEOG  : 73
>         > A-P   : 12
>         > GRULAC        : 8
>         > Africa        : 8
>         > EEG   : 3
>         >
>         > Total : 104
>         >
>         > [governments x 37]
>         >      4 USA
>         >      4 Brazil
>         >      3 Germany
>         >      2 Singapore
>         >      2 Japan
>         >      2 Italy
>         >      2 France
>         >      1 United Kingdom
>         >      1 UAE
>         >      1 Switzerland
>         >      1 Sweden
>         >      1 South Africa
>         >      1 Russia
>         >      1 PR China
>         >      1 Norway
>         >      1 Nigeria
>         >      1 Macedonia
>         >      1 Korea
>         >      1 India
>         >      1 Estonia
>         >      1 Egypt
>         >      1 Costa Rica
>         >      1 Colombia
>         >      1 Belgium
>         >      1 Australia
>         >
>         > [business x 34]
>         >
>         >     19 USA
>         >      3 United Kingdom
>         >      3 France
>         >      2 Italy
>         >      1 Turkey
>         >      1 South Africa
>         >      1 Norway
>         >      1 Netherlands
>         >      1 Korea
>         >      1 India
>         >      1 Finland
>         >      1 Business
>         >
>         > [civil society x 15 (counting IGOs as 'civil society')]
>         >
>         >      7 USA
>         >      4 Switzerland
>         >      1 Thailand
>         >      1 South Africa
>         >      1 Germany
>         >      1 Cote D'Ivoire
>         >
>         > [technical community x 14]
>         >
>         >      6 USA
>         >      3 Switzerland
>         >      2 Uruguay
>         >      1 PR China
>         >      1 Netherlands
>         >      1 Mauritius
>         >      1 Kenya
>         >      1 Belgium
>         >      1 Australia
>         >
>         > [World Economic Forum x 4]
>         >
>         >      3 Switzerland
>         >      1 USA
>         >
>         >
>         >
>         > Ian Peter <ian.peter at ianpeter.com
>         <mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com>> [2014-08-14 08:39:32 +1000]:
>         >> you could go to town on the total imbalance of perspectives
>         evident in choice of stakeholder representatives in every
>         single category. Nice to see a few good civil society reps
>         (along with some strange inclusions in that category), but the
>         overall balance of the attendees is dominated by western
>         perspectives (100% of academia, over 90% of business, etc).
>         >>
>         >> Ian Peter
>         >>
>         >> From: michael gurstein
>         >> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2014 8:11 AM
>         >> To: members at justnetcoalition.org
>         <mailto:members at justnetcoalition.org> ;
>         governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>         <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
>         >> Subject: [governance] FW: Netmundial Initiative
>         >>
>         >> Evidently this has just been leaked.
>         >>
>         >>
>         >>
>         >> http://t.co/xUxOf0AvLl
>         >>
>         >>
>         >>
>         >> M
>         >>
>         >>
>         >>
>         >>
>         >>
>         >>       NETmundial Initiative
>         >>
>         >> During ICANN 50 in London, Fadi Chehadé, the president and
>         CEO of ICANN, has announced the idea of creating a  NETMundial
>         Initiative.
>         >>
>         >> After that, a launch event has been scheduled for August,
>         28th, in Geneva. There is no public information available
>         about this initiative or event.
>         >>
>         >> Please help us and the public understand this better by
>         submitting your documents.
>         >>
>         >>
>         >>
>         >> Brief_NETmundial_Initiative.pdf          NETmundial
>         Initiative - Briefing                                August
>         13, 2014
>         >>
>         >> Invitations_NETmundial_Initiative.pdf  Launch Event - List
>         of invitees                         August 13, 2014
>         >>
>         >> Agenda_NETmundial_Initiative.pdf         Launch Event -
>         Meeting Agenda                               August 13, 2014
>         >>
>         >>
>         >>
>         >>
>         >>
>         >>
>         >>
>         >>
>         >>
>         >>
>         --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>         >> ____________________________________________________________
>         >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>         >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>         <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
>         >> To be removed from the list, visit:
>         >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>         >>
>         >> For all other list information and functions, see:
>         >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>         >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>         >> http://www.igcaucus.org/
>         >>
>         >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>         >>
>         >
>         > --
>         > Pranesh Prakash
>         > Policy Director, Centre for Internet and Society
>         > T: +91 80 40926283 <tel:%2B91%2080%2040926283> | W:
>         http://cis-india.org
>         > -------------------
>         > Access to Knowledge Fellow, Information Society Project,
>         Yale Law School
>         > M: +1 520 314 7147 <tel:%2B1%20520%20314%207147> | W:
>         http://yaleisp.org
>         > PGP ID: 0x1D5C5F07 | Twitter:
>         https://twitter.com/pranesh_prakash
>         >
>
>
>
>         ____________________________________________________________
>         You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>         governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>         <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
>         To be removed from the list, visit:
>         http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
>         For all other list information and functions, see:
>         http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>         To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>         http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
>         Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>
>
>     -- 
>     Chantal Lebrument
>
>     ​Courriel: lebrument at open-root.eu <mailto:lebrument at open-root.eu>
>     Mob: +33 6 8369 5460 <tel:%2B33%206%208369%205460>
>
>     ____________________________________________________________
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From roland at internetpolicyagency.com  Fri Aug 15 05:04:56 2014
From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry)
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 10:04:56 +0100
Subject: [governance] Fwd: RE: Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
In-Reply-To: <CACTo+v9uKNzPP0bkrAHdrqQi8iOYDuPtUM6m6xAZPE-biosjcw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANRKRpLVWhrQXVgcD=WQkyZhMwJD8=SuEWwibdEqW4sfxQWGmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANRKRpKLHwYjr48GRC7TQgB6ayUFq-DpVCMDKt2-rzO4e79sOQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <db1ffc796a464992a3e67e0645f0a95a@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
 <5C198A4A-8E01-4AB7-9B40-7DD11FD902A6@hserus.net>
 <927e47597f9b4e39823a3cdb9f8810f0@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
 <CACTo+v9uKNzPP0bkrAHdrqQi8iOYDuPtUM6m6xAZPE-biosjcw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <df+Olep40c7TFAdB@internetpolicyagency.com>

In message 
<CACTo+v9uKNzPP0bkrAHdrqQi8iOYDuPtUM6m6xAZPE-biosjcw at mail.gmail.com>, at 
17:10:22 on Tue, 12 Aug 2014, Mawaki Chango <kichango at gmail.com> writes
> include a stop at the consulate in order to collect your visa on your 
>way out. For instance: (Syracuse - NYC) in the morning + trip to the 
>consulate + (NYC - Istanbul) in the evening, assuming flights 
>availability.

I tried something like that to get my free visa for an ITU meeting in 
Hyderabad - about a year after the IGF there - planning on calling in on 
the consulate on my way home from another trip.

Unfortunately the plane on that leg was cancelled [thanks, KLM] so I had 
to make a special trip the following day, so it cost me an additional 
day and about $100 in extra travel costs.

However, there was no practical way to get a suitable visa for India any 
other way, and it did indeed cost me less in both time and money than 
going down the regular route.
-- 
Roland Perry

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From gurstein at gmail.com  Fri Aug 15 18:42:16 2014
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 15:42:16 -0700
Subject: [governance] FW: Humans Need Not Apply: The Robots are Coming
 (Actually they are already here
In-Reply-To: <044401cfb8d9$e79c7c00$b6d57400$@gmail.com>
References: <044401cfb8d9$e79c7c00$b6d57400$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <044501cfb8da$2a3bb0d0$7eb31270$@gmail.com>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU

So what do we do?

M



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From gurstein at gmail.com  Fri Aug 15 19:39:31 2014
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 16:39:31 -0700
Subject: [governance] FW: #Ferguson and NetNeutrality
Message-ID: <046701cfb8e2$2a3834c0$7ea89e40$@gmail.com>

https://medium.com/message/ferguson-is-also-a-net-neutrality-issue-6d2f3db51
eb0

http://tinyurl.com/qgzs8dt





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From toml at communisphere.com  Fri Aug 15 23:41:50 2014
From: toml at communisphere.com (Thomas Lowenhaupt)
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 23:41:50 -0400
Subject: [governance] Humans Need Not Apply: The Robots are Coming (Actually
 they are already here
In-Reply-To: <044501cfb8da$2a3bb0d0$7eb31270$@gmail.com>
References: <044401cfb8d9$e79c7c00$b6d57400$@gmail.com> <044501cfb8da$2a3bb0d0$7eb31270$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53EED2FE.5050300@communisphere.com>

Mike,

Long ago I thought this problem could be solved by reallocating 
resources: The availability of farm machinery has created more food than 
we know what to do with; and half of New York seems to be filled with 
storage bins filled with the abundance of manufactured goods. And I 
thought that people be happy to retire at 30.

But assuming an abundance of energy and no environmental limitations, 
would I like a 50 year retirement? These days I seem to live for my 
work. If some machine takes it away, I'd be left with a diminished life.

How important is work to most peoples lives?

Yes, I agree with the video, and the clock seems to be ticking.

By posting on the governance list are you suggesting that Internet 
governance and "technology management" be combined?

Tom Lowenhaupt


On 8/15/2014 6:42 PM, michael gurstein wrote:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU
>
> So what do we do?
>
> M
>
>
>

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From gurstein at gmail.com  Sat Aug 16 00:10:07 2014
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 21:10:07 -0700
Subject: [governance] RE: Humans Need Not Apply: The Robots are Coming
 (Actually they are already here
In-Reply-To: <53EED2FE.5050300@communisphere.com>
References: <044401cfb8d9$e79c7c00$b6d57400$@gmail.com> <044501cfb8da$2a3bb0d0$7eb31270$@gmail.com> <53EED2FE.5050300@communisphere.com>
Message-ID: <04d701cfb907$fa80d310$ef827930$@gmail.com>

Good question Tom.

 

I see the need for very broad frameworks of management at a global level (these issues are ultimately global ones or at least their solutions can only be global … and of course they have to do with mechanisms and processes of “governance… 

 

If we can get it right for Internet governance maybe we can find ways forward for these even more formidable challenges.

 

M

 

From: Thomas Lowenhaupt [mailto:toml at communisphere.com] 
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2014 8:42 PM
To: michael gurstein; governance list IG Caucus
Subject: Humans Need Not Apply: The Robots are Coming (Actually they are already here

 

Mike,

Long ago I thought this problem could be solved by reallocating resources: The availability of farm machinery has created more food than we know what to do with; and half of New York seems to be filled with storage bins filled with the abundance of manufactured goods. And I thought that people be happy to retire at 30. 

But assuming an abundance of energy and no environmental limitations, would I like a 50 year retirement? These days I seem to live for my work. If some machine takes it away, I'd be left with a diminished life. 

How important is work to most peoples lives? 

Yes, I agree with the video, and the clock seems to be ticking.

By posting on the governance list are you suggesting that Internet governance and "technology management" be combined?

Tom Lowenhaupt



On 8/15/2014 6:42 PM, michael gurstein wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU
 
So what do we do?
 
M
 
 
 

 

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From parminder at itforchange.net  Sat Aug 16 01:53:29 2014
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 11:23:29 +0530
Subject: [governance] Humans Need Not Apply: The Robots are Coming
 (Actually they are already here
In-Reply-To: <53EED2FE.5050300@communisphere.com>
References: <044401cfb8d9$e79c7c00$b6d57400$@gmail.com> <044501cfb8da$2a3bb0d0$7eb31270$@gmail.com> <53EED2FE.5050300@communisphere.com>
Message-ID: <53EEF1D9.3020808@itforchange.net>

Tom/ All

A much bigger problem than of allocating technology provided gains 
between work (along with over consumption) and leisure (with more 
controlled consumption) is of the allocation between different groups 
and classes of people, and between different geo-regions. It is a 
completely inexcusable crime of all those who participate in the 
management of our societies today that even with such stupendous 
technology/ productivity gains, about 13 percent of the world's 
population still goes to bed hungry, and more than 30 percent of the 
children in developing countries are stunted due to malnourishment (In 
India, close to 40 percent). Nearly half the world's population lives on 
less that 2.5 dollars a day.

"The world produces enough food to feed everyone...... the principal 
underlying cause of poverty and hunger is the ordinary operation of the 
economic and political systems in the world. Essentially control over 
resources and income is based on military, political and economic power 
that typically ends up in the hands of a minority, who live well, while 
those at the bottom barely survive, if they do." 
http://www.worldhunger.org/articles/Learn/world%20hunger%20facts%202002.htm

Meanwhile, wealth disparities are rising globally, at most places very 
rapidly. A recent report says that "the lower half of the global 
population possesses barely 1% of global wealth, while the richest 10% 
of adults own 86% of all wealth, and the top 1% account for 46% of the 
total. " And the concentration of wealth is worsening almost everywhere.

Nice time one would say to attempt to move the locus of global Internet 
governance to the World Economic Forum <http://t.co/xUxOf0AvLl>, that 
Mecca of the 1 percent, where 'they' develop blue prints for where the 
world should go from here. We certainly need their advice and leadership 
for shaping and governing the global Internet. Power on the Internet 
isnt already concentrated enough!

One can only congratulate all those involved with the initiative, and 
those contributing to it!

Poor those who have been trying to occupy places that signified wealth 
concentration - the occupy movement. It appears that it is the civil 
society that is getting occupied in reverse. And it is running into the 
trap gleefully, with open arms.

parminder


On Saturday 16 August 2014 09:11 AM, Thomas Lowenhaupt wrote:
> Mike,
>
> Long ago I thought this problem could be solved by reallocating 
> resources: The availability of farm machinery has created more food 
> than we know what to do with; and half of New York seems to be filled 
> with storage bins filled with the abundance of manufactured goods. And 
> I thought that people be happy to retire at 30.
>
> But assuming an abundance of energy and no environmental limitations, 
> would I like a 50 year retirement? These days I seem to live for my 
> work. If some machine takes it away, I'd be left with a diminished life.
>
> How important is work to most peoples lives?
>
> Yes, I agree with the video, and the clock seems to be ticking.
>
> By posting on the governance list are you suggesting that Internet 
> governance and "technology management" be combined?
>
> Tom Lowenhaupt
>
>
> On 8/15/2014 6:42 PM, michael gurstein wrote:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU
>>
>> So what do we do?
>>
>> M
>>
>>
>>
>

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From parminder at itforchange.net  Sat Aug 16 07:56:03 2014
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 17:26:03 +0530
Subject: [governance] WEF's NetMundial Initiative and civil society
In-Reply-To: <53EEF1D9.3020808@itforchange.net>
References: <044401cfb8d9$e79c7c00$b6d57400$@gmail.com> <044501cfb8da$2a3bb0d0$7eb31270$@gmail.com> <53EED2FE.5050300@communisphere.com> <53EEF1D9.3020808@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <53EF46D3.7050707@itforchange.net>


Let me try and put down my views on the World Economic Forum's 
NetMundial Initiative <http://t.co/xUxOf0AvLl> being launched in Geneva 
on 28th of Aug, of which quite a number of people here seem to be a part 
of, in one way or the other.

1. On the face of it, one does not have any problem with the World 
Economic Forum (WEF) undertaking an initiative on global Internet 
governance. They have initiatives and reports on practically everything 
under the sun. And it is not that WEF havent  had an initiative on IG 
ever before. They had for instance the 'Global Agenda Council on the 
Future of the Internet'. We could pass by another WEF initiative on IG 
without major attention or alarm. Although, overall most progressive 
actors globally remain considerably worried by the new global political 
assertion by the richest and the most powerful people in the world 
through the form and agency of the WEF and its outputs. But that larger 
concern is less of an issue here.

2. Organisations and networks that I work with had expressed 
dis-satisfaction with the NetMundial process and outcomes. However, 
there are a larger number of civil society persons and groups who 
considered NetMundial just about what the doctor ordered, and have since 
been celebrating NetMundial as the way to go forward with regard to 
global Internet governance. Now, the surprise and the question is: when 
these civil society actors who have shown such deep commitment to 
NetMundial event and process as the ideal - or close by, received word 
on the WEF's taking over of the NetMundial process, /*why did they not 
simply and strongly CRY FOUL*/... Why did they not just say, this is not 
acceptable. You guys cannot highjack and run away with the brand of 
NetMundial. We own it 'together'. It was never supposed to be a forum 
led and guided by the richest and the most powerful of the world, and so 
on... And tell them to just back off. And tell them that they can forget 
any cooperation, much less, attendance, from any civil society person or 
group. Surely 'we ourselves' would in no way whatsoever lend any 
legitimacy to this process - forget about attending the meeting.

3. But I see nothing of such a kind. (In fact, very unfortunately we got 
to hear about this initiative through online leaks.) Yes, a feeble 
protestation and lament or two, with others not even doing that and 
giving all the benefit of doubt to WEF and ICANN and whoever is behind 
it, of all the possible good intentions. If only, civil society groups 
and persons have reacted as I lay out above, /*this process could have 
been stopped in its tracks*/. '/They/' need to have civil society play 
along, for the masquerade of multistakeholderism covering status quo 
power structures to work. Unfortunately, our civil society leaders never 
seem to show the strength of character, and leverage our collective 
strength which if properly used can be such strong force in shaping 
global IG regimes. We seem always so eager to give in. Lets be good, and 
trust other people's good intention! We failed to speak up when ICANN 
(at US's behest) so completely took over the Brazil meeting, and threw 
civil society's (direct) representational claims aside; we stood quite 
when 'they' foisted on us a civil society 'leader' at the Brazil meeting 
; and we whimpered and pulled back again when 'they' ran away with what 
they wanted from the NetMundial outcome documents. Civil society always 
gives in. It was not supposed to be list this.

4. What will happen next? Yes, the civil society participants at the WEF 
meeting will certainly say; no, this, is not the right way to do things. 
And 'they' will say, sorry, we did not mean to hurt you. We can always 
figure out the right way. And some concessions will be thrown civil 
society's way, like: ok, we will allow you to choose your reps (and then 
some groups/ persons will choose one another and be right back, now on 
the behalf of the global civil society), we will have a second phase 
after Feb 2015, which will be so much better (there is always a promised 
second phase, isnt it), and so on. With the hiccups accounted for, 
global IG civil society will again put back its pretty smile, and off it 
would sail, happily hereafter, in the lap of the richest and the most 
powerful, precisely from whom the Internet needs to be saved. But forget 
such petty details! We must celebrate the spirit and actions of 
multistakeholderism and not allow minor issues to come in its way!

But then maybe I am just a niggardly conspiracy theorist, and civil 
society actors here are going to get together and shoot a letter to the 
WEF to the effect that - it is none of their business to
take up leadership of the NetMundial process, and we strongly resent 
efforts to highjack it. The plans for the proposed NetMundial Initiative 
must be shelved immediately, while WEF is welcome to undertake any IG 
initiative under any name that it deems fit, which is not a stolen one. 
In any case, do NOT expect any civil society actor to turn up, or at 
least none of those undersigned are going to be there... May, I suggest 
that we write such a letter from various civil society groups. Because I 
am bored with making up conspiracy theories :)

parminder



On Saturday 16 August 2014 11:23 AM, parminder wrote:
> Tom/ All
>
> A much bigger problem than of allocating technology provided gains 
> between work (along with over consumption) and leisure (with more 
> controlled consumption) is of the allocation between different groups 
> and classes of people, and between different geo-regions. It is a 
> completely inexcusable crime of all those who participate in the 
> management of our societies today that even with such stupendous 
> technology/ productivity gains, about 13 percent of the world's 
> population still goes to bed hungry, and more than 30 percent of the 
> children in developing countries are stunted due to malnourishment (In 
> India, close to 40 percent). Nearly half the world's population lives 
> on less that 2.5 dollars a day.
>
> "The world produces enough food to feed everyone...... the principal 
> underlying cause of poverty and hunger is the ordinary operation of 
> the economic and political systems in the world. Essentially control 
> over resources and income is based on military, political and economic 
> power that typically ends up in the hands of a minority, who live 
> well, while those at the bottom barely survive, if they do." 
> http://www.worldhunger.org/articles/Learn/world%20hunger%20facts%202002.htm 
>
>
> Meanwhile, wealth disparities are rising globally, at most places very 
> rapidly. A recent report says that "the lower half of the global 
> population possesses barely 1% of global wealth, while the richest 10% 
> of adults own 86% of all wealth, and the top 1% account for 46% of the 
> total. " And the concentration of wealth is worsening almost everywhere.
>
> Nice time one would say to attempt to move the locus of global 
> Internet governance to the World Economic Forum 
> <http://t.co/xUxOf0AvLl>, that Mecca of the 1 percent, where 'they' 
> develop blue prints for where the world should go from here. We 
> certainly need their advice and leadership for shaping and governing 
> the global Internet. Power on the Internet isnt already concentrated 
> enough!
>
> One can only congratulate all those involved with the initiative, and 
> those contributing to it!
>
> Poor those who have been trying to occupy places that signified wealth 
> concentration - the occupy movement. It appears that it is the civil 
> society that is getting occupied in reverse. And it is running into 
> the trap gleefully, with open arms.
>
> parminder
>
>
> On Saturday 16 August 2014 09:11 AM, Thomas Lowenhaupt wrote:
>> Mike,
>>
>> Long ago I thought this problem could be solved by reallocating 
>> resources: The availability of farm machinery has created more food 
>> than we know what to do with; and half of New York seems to be filled 
>> with storage bins filled with the abundance of manufactured goods. 
>> And I thought that people be happy to retire at 30.
>>
>> But assuming an abundance of energy and no environmental limitations, 
>> would I like a 50 year retirement? These days I seem to live for my 
>> work. If some machine takes it away, I'd be left with a diminished life.
>>
>> How important is work to most peoples lives?
>>
>> Yes, I agree with the video, and the clock seems to be ticking.
>>
>> By posting on the governance list are you suggesting that Internet 
>> governance and "technology management" be combined?
>>
>> Tom Lowenhaupt
>>
>>
>> On 8/15/2014 6:42 PM, michael gurstein wrote:
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU
>>>
>>> So what do we do?
>>>
>>> M
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

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From jefsey at jefsey.com  Sat Aug 16 14:51:35 2014
From: jefsey at jefsey.com (Jefsey)
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 20:51:35 +0200
Subject: [governance] WEF's NetMundial Initiative and civil society
In-Reply-To: <53EF46D3.7050707@itforchange.net>
References: <044401cfb8d9$e79c7c00$b6d57400$@gmail.com>
 <044501cfb8da$2a3bb0d0$7eb31270$@gmail.com>
 <53EED2FE.5050300@communisphere.com>
 <53EEF1D9.3020808@itforchange.net>
 <53EF46D3.7050707@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <E1XIiyM-0007vq-GG@igcaucus.org>

At 13:56 16/08/2014, parminder wrote:
>It was never supposed to be a forum led and guided by the richest 
>and the most powerful of the world, and so on...

Who did tell you this?
Certainly not FSP4.NET people.

It was led by those who can foot the T&L for CS people to be there.
Who pays for the next flight and stay owns the voice and the vote.
There is no mystery about that.

jfc 


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From bzs at world.std.com  Sat Aug 16 15:12:41 2014
From: bzs at world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 15:12:41 -0400
Subject: [governance] FW: Humans Need Not Apply: The Robots are Coming
 (Actually they are already here
In-Reply-To: <044501cfb8da$2a3bb0d0$7eb31270$@gmail.com>
References: <044401cfb8d9$e79c7c00$b6d57400$@gmail.com>
	<044501cfb8da$2a3bb0d0$7eb31270$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <21487.44329.643108.984474@world.std.com>


From: "michael gurstein" <gurstein at gmail.com>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU
>
>So what do we do?

I have never needed a job in my life. However, I have at times needed
money badly enough that I was willing to work for it.

The message of the video is a world where we can produce much of what
we need with robots but without jobs we don't know how to distribute
it all.

Right now people have jobs, they get wages, they buy things they and
others produce.

But what's the point of producing all that with robots if you have no
way to get it into the hands of consumers?

It's a paradox which I doubt will stand very long though transition,
as with many large transitions, is likely to be painful for some.

Essentially this is the milieu of the very poor populations of the
world. Nobody with money etc. wants whatever it is they do have (let's
ignore others "stealing" their resources through power, etc.) so they
are poor.

Take comfort in the fact that the very wealthy never worry about their
"jobs" being automated out of existence.


-- 
        -Barry Shein

The World              | bzs at TheWorld.com           | http://www.TheWorld.com
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD        | Dial-Up: US, PR, Canada
Software Tool & Die    | Public Access Internet     | SINCE 1989     *oo*

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From ian.peter at ianpeter.com  Sat Aug 16 17:21:25 2014
From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter)
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 07:21:25 +1000
Subject: [governance] WEF's NetMundial Initiative and civil society
In-Reply-To: <53EF46D3.7050707@itforchange.net>
References: <044401cfb8d9$e79c7c00$b6d57400$@gmail.com> <044501cfb8da$2a3bb0d0$7eb31270$@gmail.com> <53EED2FE.5050300@communisphere.com> <53EEF1D9.3020808@itforchange.net> <53EF46D3.7050707@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <77E567DB63574E358BE65317A21A0CA9@Toshiba>

From a personal perspective -

I was also annoyed at the use of netmundial as a brand by WEF – their letterhead on the leaked documents shows netmundial.org as a document footer on World Economic Forum letterhead.

I asked about this with no reply, and a whois search reveals a private owner of netmundial.org. However, given its existence and historical use prior to the Brazilian event, it would appear that the domain name is owned by ICANN. It would therefore seem that ICANN allowed WEF use of the name.

I would be keen to know the conditions (if any) attached to this use. I would also think that perhaps the original netmundial site (netmundial.br) should be watching this closely and reacting if the brand is compromised. As far as I can see netmundial.br is not ICANN property.

In any case; at this stage the WEF initiative is to bring together some people to form an initiative – it is not announcing WEF or the meeting attendees as the NetMundial initiative, but a group of people discussing how to form such an initiative. 

If CS withdraws, people will claim that CS was represented anyway, given that in that category the meeting organisers include (erroneously) ISOC, technical community reps, and UN officials. They will just say a radical fringe withdrew.

So, much though I think the representation is unbalanced, and much though I think the use of the term netmundial by WEF should be strongly challenged, I think the best approach to dealing with this is for the (very few) CS reps to attend and say this strongly, pointing forcefully to the netmundial principles including transparency and inclusiveness, and insisting that these be followed in any initiative. If there is to be a walkout because the emerging initiative does not take account of these and associated netmundial principles, I think a walkout during the meeting would draw more attention than a boycott beforehand.

What I would actually hope for, and what would be consistent with the multistakeholder beliefs espoused (but not always practiced) by ICANN, USG et al who are key participants of this meeting, would be for WEF to commit funds *with no conditions whatsoever* to an ongoing initiative which ensures inclusiveness, equitable representation for civil society, and looks to develop equitable participation in internet governance. If there was an outcome where such funds were committed to an ongoing initiative without conditions, that could be useful. And it the resulting initiative was formed with the right principles, and carried forward the name netmundial, that would be fine I think. A lot to hope for I know...

But we certainly need something to happen.  This years IGC looks like it will be without one of our IGC co ordinators, because of lack of funding. I will not be able to attend for similar reasons, nor will Gunela, organising a disability workshop. I am sure there are many others. The current situation where funding bodies work independently and in an ad hoc manner to fund whoever *they* want to attend IGF etc is problematic in the extreme, and I would welcome some independent funding source that could transparently support diverse and  representative CS participation in such events. Otherwise multistakeholder is meaningless. 

Ian Peter

From: parminder 
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 9:56 PM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org 
Subject: [governance] WEF's NetMundial Initiative and civil society


Let me try and put down my views on the World Economic Forum's NetMundial Initiative being launched in Geneva on 28th of Aug, of which quite a number of people here seem to be a part of, in one way or the other.

1. On the face of it, one does not have any problem with the World Economic Forum (WEF) undertaking an initiative on global Internet governance. They have initiatives and reports on practically everything under the sun. And it is not that WEF havent  had an initiative on IG ever before. They had for instance the 'Global Agenda Council on the Future of the Internet'. We could pass by another WEF initiative on IG without major attention or alarm. Although, overall most progressive actors globally remain considerably worried by the new global political assertion by the richest and the most powerful people in the world through the form and agency of the WEF and its outputs. But that larger concern is less of an issue here.

2. Organisations and networks that I work with had expressed dis-satisfaction with the NetMundial process and outcomes. However, there are a larger number of civil society persons and groups who considered NetMundial just about what the doctor ordered, and have since been celebrating NetMundial as the way to go forward with regard to global Internet governance. Now, the surprise and the question is: when these civil society actors who have shown such deep commitment to NetMundial event and process as the ideal - or close by, received word on the WEF's taking over of the NetMundial process, why did they not simply and strongly CRY FOUL... Why did they not just say, this is not acceptable. You guys cannot highjack and run away with the brand of NetMundial. We own it 'together'. It was never supposed to be a forum led and guided by the richest and the most powerful of the world, and so on... And tell them to just back off. And tell them that they can forget any cooperation, much less, attendance, from any civil society person or group. Surely 'we ourselves' would in no way whatsoever lend any legitimacy to this process - forget about attending the meeting. 

3. But I see nothing of such a kind. (In fact, very unfortunately we got to hear about this initiative through online leaks.) Yes, a feeble protestation and lament or two, with others not even doing  that and giving all the benefit of doubt to WEF and ICANN and whoever is behind it, of all the possible good intentions. If only, civil society groups and persons have reacted as I lay out above, this process could have been stopped in its tracks. 'They' need to have civil society play along, for the masquerade of multistakeholderism covering status quo power structures to work. Unfortunately, our civil society leaders never seem to show the strength of character, and leverage our collective strength which if properly used can be such strong force in shaping global IG regimes. We seem always so eager to give in. Lets be good, and trust other people's good intention! We failed to speak up when ICANN (at US's behest) so completely took over the Brazil meeting, and threw civil society's (direct) representational claims aside; we stood quite when 'they' foisted on us a civil society 'leader' at the Brazil meeting ; and we whimpered and pulled back again when 'they' ran away with what they wanted from the NetMundial outcome documents. Civil society always gives in. It was not supposed to be list this.

4. What will happen next? Yes, the civil society participants at the WEF meeting will certainly say; no, this, is not the right way to do things. And 'they' will say, sorry, we did not mean to hurt you. We can always figure out the right way. And some concessions will be thrown civil society's way, like: ok, we will allow you to choose your reps (and then some groups/ persons will choose one another and be right back, now on the behalf of the global civil society), we will have a second phase after Feb 2015, which will be so much better (there is always a promised second phase, isnt it), and so on. With the hiccups accounted for, global IG civil society will again put back its pretty smile, and off it would sail, happily hereafter, in the lap of the richest and the most powerful, precisely from whom the Internet needs to be saved. But forget such petty details! We must celebrate the spirit and actions of multistakeholderism and not allow minor issues to come in its way!

But then maybe I am just a niggardly conspiracy theorist, and civil society actors here are going to get together and shoot a letter to the WEF to the effect that - it is none of their business to 
take up leadership of the NetMundial process, and we strongly resent efforts to highjack it. The plans for the proposed NetMundial Initiative must be shelved immediately, while WEF is welcome to undertake any IG initiative under any name that it deems fit, which is not a stolen one. In any case, do NOT expect any civil society actor to turn up, or at least none of those undersigned are going to be there... May, I suggest that we write such a letter from various civil society groups. Because I am bored with making up conspiracy theories :) 

parminder 




On Saturday 16 August 2014 11:23 AM, parminder wrote:

  Tom/ All

  A much bigger problem than of allocating technology provided gains between work (along with over consumption) and leisure (with more controlled consumption) is of the allocation between different groups and classes of people, and between different geo-regions. It is a completely inexcusable crime of all those who participate in the management of our societies today that even with such stupendous technology/ productivity gains, about 13 percent of the world's population still goes to bed hungry, and more than 30 percent of the children in developing countries are stunted due to malnourishment (In India, close to 40 percent). Nearly half the world's population lives on less that 2.5 dollars a day. 

  "The world produces enough food to feed everyone...... the principal underlying cause of poverty and hunger is the ordinary operation of the economic and political systems in the world. Essentially control over resources and income is based on military, political and economic power that typically ends up in the hands of a minority, who live well, while those at the bottom barely survive, if they do."  http://www.worldhunger.org/articles/Learn/world%20hunger%20facts%202002.htm 

  Meanwhile, wealth disparities are rising globally, at most places very rapidly. A recent report says that "the lower half of the global population possesses barely 1% of global wealth, while the richest 10% of adults own 86% of all wealth, and the top 1% account for 46% of the total. " And the concentration of wealth is worsening almost everywhere.

  Nice time one would say to attempt to move the locus of global Internet governance to the World Economic Forum, that Mecca of the 1 percent, where 'they' develop blue prints for where the world should go from here. We certainly need their advice and leadership for shaping and governing the global Internet. Power on the Internet isnt already concentrated enough! 

  One can only congratulate all those involved with the initiative, and those contributing to it!

  Poor those who have been trying to occupy places that signified wealth concentration - the occupy movement. It appears that it is the civil society that is getting occupied in reverse. And it is running into the trap gleefully, with open arms.

  parminder



  On Saturday 16 August 2014 09:11 AM, Thomas Lowenhaupt wrote:

    Mike,

    Long ago I thought this problem could be solved by reallocating resources: The availability of farm machinery has created more food than we know what to do with; and half of New York seems to be filled with storage bins filled with the abundance of manufactured goods. And I thought that people be happy to retire at 30. 

    But assuming an abundance of energy and no environmental limitations, would I like a 50 year retirement? These days I seem to live for my work. If some machine takes it away, I'd be left with a diminished life. 

    How important is work to most peoples lives? 

    Yes, I agree with the video, and the clock seems to be ticking.

    By posting on the governance list are you suggesting that Internet governance and "technology management" be combined?

    Tom Lowenhaupt



    On 8/15/2014 6:42 PM, michael gurstein wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU

So what do we do?

M











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From angelacdaly at gmail.com  Sat Aug 16 20:16:20 2014
From: angelacdaly at gmail.com (Angela Daly)
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 10:16:20 +1000
Subject: [governance] Australian Internet Governance Forum...
Message-ID: <CAKh3=soGY29ddAUgaT6_8BG3F_T8g_sfwMF1DqWd6CLNMME9Zg@mail.gmail.com>

... coming soon in Melbourne, 26 and 27 August.

More details here: http://www.igf.org.au/
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From parminder at itforchange.net  Sun Aug 17 00:35:23 2014
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 10:05:23 +0530
Subject: [governance] WEF's NetMundial Initiative and civil society
In-Reply-To: <77E567DB63574E358BE65317A21A0CA9@Toshiba>
References: <044401cfb8d9$e79c7c00$b6d57400$@gmail.com> <044501cfb8da$2a3bb0d0$7eb31270$@gmail.com> <53EED2FE.5050300@communisphere.com> <53EEF1D9.3020808@itforchange.net> <53EF46D3.7050707@itforchange.net> <77E567DB63574E358BE65317A21A0CA9@Toshiba>
Message-ID: <53F0310B.4080008@itforchange.net>

Not responding to Ian who is basically telling us not to do anything , 
which is very fine with me, since my organisation and networks in any 
case did not approve of the NetMundial process very much, as it finally 
ended up. And so if it is now headed rather more clearly and visibly to 
what we have been saying it is leaning towards (corporate capture) we 
can simply say - did we not tell you! However painful for us it is to 
say so.

I will here just point to the fact, about which much blindness is being 
practised - that the WEF initiative is but an obvious effort to scuttle 
and undermine the WSIS plus 10 process. After US and its allies tried 
their best inside the UN to prevent a high level plus 10 review, which 
they could not because it is mandated in the Tunis agenda, it is now up 
to their lackeys in the private sector and the so called techncial 
sector (ICANN) to take forward the dirty tricks work - to do just 
everything to prevent a more democratic addressing of the global 
Internet policy issues, which to almost everyone's mind are becoming 
more and more serious by the day. And civil society is playing along......

Meanwhile, do remember (and a lot of effort is being put to forget that 
fact) that developing countries had been asking for a full fledged WSIS 
review process on the same lines as the original WSIS, with prepcoms and 
all (this was repeatedly stated in G 77 draft resolution for WSIS 10 
review) . Once it were mandated so by th Gen Assembly, we could have 
sought and perhaps got even better participation methods beyond WSIS 
(which was itself highly participatoy) by some on the floor tactics (as 
we did in the original WSIS). But I do not understand why civil society 
positions always seem to go with that of the US in such forums. In any 
case, after trying not to allow any high level review at all, the 
developed countires then managed to box the review process into as 
limited a space and time as possible, in NY (and Not Geneva, mind it) 
*/which is primarily responsible for making the participatory processes 
around it so poor./* But the fun is, civil society now joins the US and 
its allies to again blame the developing countries for this outcome that 
WSIS plus 10 will not be as participatory as WSIS was. (Developing 
countries do not have the time, resources or skills to confront such 
propaganda, and so it goes on..) . Just how powerful some people are...

And now since the developed countries have screwed up WSIS plus 10 and 
its participatory processes - so would the spiel go - the real processes 
have to work outside the UN system. That is what the new NetMundial 
Initiative is supposed to be, now under the powerful arua and resources 
of the WEF .... But we can keep taking about trifles and the good 
intention of all people. Good to keep civil society occupied.

parminder


On Sunday 17 August 2014 02:51 AM, Ian Peter wrote:
> From a personal perspective -
> I was also annoyed at the use of netmundial as a brand by WEF – their 
> letterhead on the leaked documents shows netmundial.org as a document 
> footer on World Economic Forum letterhead.
> I asked about this with no reply, and a whois search reveals a private 
> owner of netmundial.org. However, given its existence and historical 
> use prior to the Brazilian event, it would appear that the domain name 
> is owned by ICANN. It would therefore seem that ICANN allowed WEF use 
> of the name.
> I would be keen to know the conditions (if any) attached to this use. 
> I would also think that perhaps the original netmundial site 
> (netmundial.br) should be watching this closely and reacting if the 
> brand is compromised. As far as I can see netmundial.br is not ICANN 
> property.
> In any case; at this stage the WEF initiative is to bring together 
> some people to form an initiative – it is not announcing WEF or the 
> meeting attendees as the NetMundial initiative, but a group of people 
> discussing how to form such an initiative.
> If CS withdraws, people will claim that CS was represented anyway, 
> given that in that category the meeting organisers include 
> (erroneously) ISOC, technical community reps, and UN officials. They 
> will just say a radical fringe withdrew.
> So, much though I think the representation is unbalanced, and much 
> though I think the use of the term netmundial by WEF should be 
> strongly challenged, I think the best approach to dealing with this is 
> for the (very few) CS reps to attend and say this strongly, pointing 
> forcefully to the netmundial principles including transparency and 
> inclusiveness, and insisting that these be followed in any initiative. 
> If there is to be a walkout because the emerging initiative does not 
> take account of these and associated netmundial principles, I think a 
> walkout during the meeting would draw more attention than a boycott 
> beforehand.
> What I would actually hope for, and what would be consistent with the 
> multistakeholder beliefs espoused (but not always practiced) by ICANN, 
> USG et al who are key participants of this meeting, would be for WEF 
> to commit funds *with no conditions whatsoever* to an ongoing 
> initiative which ensures inclusiveness, equitable representation for 
> civil society, and looks to develop equitable participation in 
> internet governance. If there was an outcome where such funds were 
> committed to an ongoing initiative without conditions, that could be 
> useful. And it the resulting initiative was formed with the right 
> principles, and carried forward the name netmundial, that would be 
> fine I think. A lot to hope for I know...
> But we certainly need something to happen.  This years IGC looks like 
> it will be without one of our IGC co ordinators, because of lack of 
> funding. I will not be able to attend for similar reasons, nor will 
> Gunela, organising a disability workshop. I am sure there are many 
> others. The current situation where funding bodies work independently 
> and in an ad hoc manner to fund whoever *they* want to attend IGF etc 
> is problematic in the extreme, and I would welcome some independent 
> funding source that could transparently support diverse and  
> representative CS participation in such events. Otherwise 
> multistakeholder is meaningless.
> Ian Peter
> *From:* parminder <mailto:parminder at itforchange.net>
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 16, 2014 9:56 PM
> *To:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org 
> <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
> *Subject:* [governance] WEF's NetMundial Initiative and civil society
>
> Let me try and put down my views on the World Economic Forum's 
> NetMundial Initiative <http://t.co/xUxOf0AvLl> being launched in 
> Geneva on 28th of Aug, of which quite a number of people here seem to 
> be a part of, in one way or the other.
>
> 1. On the face of it, one does not have any problem with the World 
> Economic Forum (WEF) undertaking an initiative on global Internet 
> governance. They have initiatives and reports on practically 
> everything under the sun. And it is not that WEF havent  had an 
> initiative on IG ever before. They had for instance the 'Global Agenda 
> Council on the Future of the Internet'. We could pass by another WEF 
> initiative on IG without major attention or alarm. Although, overall 
> most progressive actors globally remain considerably worried by the 
> new global political assertion by the richest and the most powerful 
> people in the world through the form and agency of the WEF and its 
> outputs. But that larger concern is less of an issue here.
>
> 2. Organisations and networks that I work with had expressed 
> dis-satisfaction with the NetMundial process and outcomes. However, 
> there are a larger number of civil society persons and groups who 
> considered NetMundial just about what the doctor ordered, and have 
> since been celebrating NetMundial as the way to go forward with regard 
> to global Internet governance. Now, the surprise and the question is: 
> when these civil society actors who have shown such deep commitment to 
> NetMundial event and process as the ideal - or close by, received word 
> on the WEF's taking over of the NetMundial process, /*why did they not 
> simply and strongly CRY FOUL*/... Why did they not just say, this is 
> not acceptable. You guys cannot highjack and run away with the brand 
> of NetMundial. We own it 'together'. It was never supposed to be a 
> forum led and guided by the richest and the most powerful of the 
> world, and so on... And tell them to just back off. And tell them that 
> they can forget any cooperation, much less, attendance, from any civil 
> society person or group. Surely 'we ourselves' would in no way 
> whatsoever lend any legitimacy to this process - forget about 
> attending the meeting.
>
> 3. But I see nothing of such a kind. (In fact, very unfortunately we 
> got to hear about this initiative through online leaks.) Yes, a feeble 
> protestation and lament or two, with others not even doing  that and 
> giving all the benefit of doubt to WEF and ICANN and whoever is behind 
> it, of all the possible good intentions. If only, civil society groups 
> and persons have reacted as I lay out above, /*this process could have 
> been stopped in its tracks*/. '/They/' need to have civil society play 
> along, for the masquerade of multistakeholderism covering status quo 
> power structures to work. Unfortunately, our civil society leaders 
> never seem to show the strength of character, and leverage our 
> collective strength which if properly used can be such strong force in 
> shaping global IG regimes. We seem always so eager to give in. Lets be 
> good, and trust other people's good intention! We failed to speak up 
> when ICANN (at US's behest) so completely took over the Brazil 
> meeting, and threw civil society's (direct) representational claims 
> aside; we stood quite when 'they' foisted on us a civil society 
> 'leader' at the Brazil meeting ; and we whimpered and pulled back 
> again when 'they' ran away with what they wanted from the NetMundial 
> outcome documents. Civil society always gives in. It was not supposed 
> to be list this.
>
> 4. What will happen next? Yes, the civil society participants at the 
> WEF meeting will certainly say; no, this, is not the right way to do 
> things. And 'they' will say, sorry, we did not mean to hurt you. We 
> can always figure out the right way. And some concessions will be 
> thrown civil society's way, like: ok, we will allow you to choose your 
> reps (and then some groups/ persons will choose one another and be 
> right back, now on the behalf of the global civil society), we will 
> have a second phase after Feb 2015, which will be so much better 
> (there is always a promised second phase, isnt it), and so on. With 
> the hiccups accounted for, global IG civil society will again put back 
> its pretty smile, and off it would sail, happily hereafter, in the lap 
> of the richest and the most powerful, precisely from whom the Internet 
> needs to be saved. But forget such petty details! We must celebrate 
> the spirit and actions of multistakeholderism and not allow minor 
> issues to come in its way!
>
> But then maybe I am just a niggardly conspiracy theorist, and civil 
> society actors here are going to get together and shoot a letter to 
> the WEF to the effect that - it is none of their business to
> take up leadership of the NetMundial process, and we strongly resent 
> efforts to highjack it. The plans for the proposed NetMundial 
> Initiative must be shelved immediately, while WEF is welcome to 
> undertake any IG initiative under any name that it deems fit, which is 
> not a stolen one. In any case, do NOT expect any civil society actor 
> to turn up, or at least none of those undersigned are going to be 
> there... May, I suggest that we write such a letter from various civil 
> society groups. Because I am bored with making up conspiracy theories :)
>
> parminder
>
>
>
> On Saturday 16 August 2014 11:23 AM, parminder wrote:
>> Tom/ All
>>
>> A much bigger problem than of allocating technology provided gains 
>> between work (along with over consumption) and leisure (with more 
>> controlled consumption) is of the allocation between different groups 
>> and classes of people, and between different geo-regions. It is a 
>> completely inexcusable crime of all those who participate in the 
>> management of our societies today that even with such stupendous 
>> technology/ productivity gains, about 13 percent of the world's 
>> population still goes to bed hungry, and more than 30 percent of the 
>> children in developing countries are stunted due to malnourishment 
>> (In India, close to 40 percent). Nearly half the world's population 
>> lives on less that 2.5 dollars a day.
>>
>> "The world produces enough food to feed everyone...... the principal 
>> underlying cause of poverty and hunger is the ordinary operation of 
>> the economic and political systems in the world. Essentially control 
>> over resources and income is based on military, political and 
>> economic power that typically ends up in the hands of a minority, who 
>> live well, while those at the bottom barely survive, if they do." 
>> http://www.worldhunger.org/articles/Learn/world%20hunger%20facts%202002.htm 
>>
>>
>> Meanwhile, wealth disparities are rising globally, at most places 
>> very rapidly. A recent report says that "the lower half of the global 
>> population possesses barely 1% of global wealth, while the richest 
>> 10% of adults own 86% of all wealth, and the top 1% account for 46% 
>> of the total. " And the concentration of wealth is worsening almost 
>> everywhere.
>>
>> Nice time one would say to attempt to move the locus of global 
>> Internet governance to the World Economic Forum 
>> <http://t.co/xUxOf0AvLl>, that Mecca of the 1 percent, where 'they' 
>> develop blue prints for where the world should go from here. We 
>> certainly need their advice and leadership for shaping and governing 
>> the global Internet. Power on the Internet isnt already concentrated 
>> enough!
>>
>> One can only congratulate all those involved with the initiative, and 
>> those contributing to it!
>>
>> Poor those who have been trying to occupy places that signified 
>> wealth concentration - the occupy movement. It appears that it is the 
>> civil society that is getting occupied in reverse. And it is running 
>> into the trap gleefully, with open arms.
>>
>> parminder
>>
>>
>> On Saturday 16 August 2014 09:11 AM, Thomas Lowenhaupt wrote:
>>> Mike,
>>>
>>> Long ago I thought this problem could be solved by reallocating 
>>> resources: The availability of farm machinery has created more food 
>>> than we know what to do with; and half of New York seems to be 
>>> filled with storage bins filled with the abundance of manufactured 
>>> goods. And I thought that people be happy to retire at 30.
>>>
>>> But assuming an abundance of energy and no environmental 
>>> limitations, would I like a 50 year retirement? These days I seem to 
>>> live for my work. If some machine takes it away, I'd be left with a 
>>> diminished life.
>>>
>>> How important is work to most peoples lives?
>>>
>>> Yes, I agree with the video, and the clock seems to be ticking.
>>>
>>> By posting on the governance list are you suggesting that Internet 
>>> governance and "technology management" be combined?
>>>
>>> Tom Lowenhaupt
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/15/2014 6:42 PM, michael gurstein wrote:
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU
>>>>
>>>> So what do we do?
>>>>
>>>> M
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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From suresh at hserus.net  Sun Aug 17 00:48:57 2014
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 10:18:57 +0530
Subject: [governance] WEF's NetMundial Initiative and civil society
In-Reply-To: <53F0310B.4080008@itforchange.net>
References: <044401cfb8d9$e79c7c00$b6d57400$@gmail.com> <044501cfb8da$2a3bb0d0$7eb31270$@gmail.com> <53EED2FE.5050300@communisphere.com> <53EEF1D9.3020808@itforchange.net> <53EF46D3.7050707@itforchange.net> <77E567DB63574E358BE65317A21A0CA9@Toshiba> <53F0310B.4080008@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <F6C2095C-8252-4335-9BA9-AF93D0917808@hserus.net>

You're responding to him actually, for all the formality of that denial.

Lackeys, and dirty tricks, eh? Wonderful.  Love your wonderful command over the more vituperative parts of the english language.

Civil society is about seeking common ground. Which Ian is trying to seek here, to give him a lot of credit.

Not about saying anything at all abusive that you like while running crying to teacher (or co-co, or list admin or whatever) whenever someone says something that you don't like.

--srs (iPad)

> On 17-Aug-2014, at 10:05, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> wrote:
> 
> Not responding to Ian who is basically telling us not to do anything , which is very fine with me, since my organisation and networks in any case did not approve of the NetMundial process very much, as it finally ended up. And so if it is now headed rather more clearly and visibly to what we have been saying it is leaning towards (corporate capture) we can simply say - did we not tell you! However painful for us it is to say so. 
> 
> I will here just point to the fact, about which much blindness is being practised - that the WEF initiative is but an obvious effort to scuttle and undermine the WSIS plus 10 process. After US and its allies tried their best inside the UN to prevent a high level plus 10 review, which they could not because it is mandated in the Tunis agenda, it is now up to their lackeys in the private sector and the so called techncial sector (ICANN) to take forward the dirty tricks work - to do just everything to prevent a more democratic addressing of the global Internet policy issues, which to almost everyone's mind are becoming more and more serious by the day. And civil society is playing along......
> 
> Meanwhile, do remember (and a lot of effort is being put to forget that fact) that developing countries had been asking for a full fledged WSIS review process on the same lines as the original WSIS, with prepcoms and all (this was repeatedly stated in G 77 draft resolution for WSIS 10 review) . Once it were mandated so by th Gen Assembly, we could have sought and perhaps got even better participation methods beyond WSIS (which was itself highly participatoy) by some on the floor tactics (as we did in the original WSIS). But I do not understand why civil society positions always seem to go with that of the US in such forums. In any case, after trying not to allow any high level review at all, the developed countires then managed to box the review process into as limited a space and time as possible, in NY (and Not Geneva, mind it) which is primarily responsible for making the participatory processes around it so poor. But the fun is, civil society now joins the US and its allies to again blame the     developing countries for this outcome that WSIS plus 10 will not be as participatory as WSIS was. (Developing countries do not have the time, resources or skills to confront such propaganda, and so it goes on..) . Just how powerful some people are...
> 
> And now since the developed countries have screwed up WSIS plus 10 and its participatory processes - so would the spiel go - the real processes have to work outside the UN system. That is what the new NetMundial Initiative is supposed to be, now under the powerful arua and resources of the WEF .... But we can keep taking about trifles and the good intention of all people. Good to keep civil society occupied. 
> 
> parminder
> 
> 
>> On Sunday 17 August 2014 02:51 AM, Ian Peter wrote:
>> From a personal perspective -
>>  
>> I was also annoyed at the use of netmundial as a brand by WEF – their letterhead on the leaked documents shows netmundial.org as a document footer on World Economic Forum letterhead.
>>  
>> I asked about this with no reply, and a whois search reveals a private owner of netmundial.org. However, given its existence and historical use prior to the Brazilian event, it would appear that the domain name is owned by ICANN. It would therefore seem that ICANN allowed WEF use of the name.
>>  
>> I would be keen to know the conditions (if any) attached to this use. I would also think that perhaps the original netmundial site (netmundial.br) should be watching this closely and reacting if the brand is compromised. As far as I can see netmundial.br is not ICANN property.
>>  
>> In any case; at this stage the WEF initiative is to bring together some people to form an initiative – it is not announcing WEF or the meeting attendees as the NetMundial initiative, but a group of people discussing how to form such an initiative.
>>  
>> If CS withdraws, people will claim that CS was represented anyway, given that in that category the meeting organisers include (erroneously) ISOC, technical community reps, and UN officials. They will just say a radical fringe withdrew.
>>  
>> So, much though I think the representation is unbalanced, and much though I think the use of the term netmundial by WEF should be strongly challenged, I think the best approach to dealing with this is for the (very few) CS reps to attend and say this strongly, pointing forcefully to the netmundial principles including transparency and inclusiveness, and insisting that these be followed in any initiative. If there is to be a walkout because the emerging initiative does not take account of these and associated netmundial principles, I think a walkout during the meeting would draw more attention than a boycott beforehand.
>>  
>> What I would actually hope for, and what would be consistent with the multistakeholder beliefs espoused (but not always practiced) by ICANN, USG et al who are key participants of this meeting, would be for WEF to commit funds *with no conditions whatsoever* to an ongoing initiative which ensures inclusiveness, equitable representation for civil society, and looks to develop equitable participation in internet governance. If there was an outcome where such funds were committed to an ongoing initiative without conditions, that could be useful. And it the resulting initiative was formed with the right principles, and carried forward the name netmundial, that would be fine I think. A lot to hope for I know...
>>  
>> But we certainly need something to happen.  This years IGC looks like it will be without one of our IGC co ordinators, because of lack of funding. I will not be able to attend for similar reasons, nor will Gunela, organising a disability workshop. I am sure there are many others. The current situation where funding bodies work independently and in an ad hoc manner to fund whoever *they* want to             attend IGF etc is problematic in the extreme, and I would welcome some independent funding source that could transparently support diverse and  representative CS participation in such events. Otherwise multistakeholder is meaningless.
>>  
>> Ian Peter
>>  
>> From: parminder
>> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 9:56 PM
>> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> Subject: [governance] WEF's NetMundial Initiative and civil society
>>  
>> 
>> Let me try and put down my views on the World Economic Forum's NetMundial Initiative being launched in Geneva on 28th of Aug, of which quite a number of people here seem to be a part of, in one way or the other.
>> 
>> 1. On the face of it, one does not have any problem with the World Economic Forum (WEF) undertaking an initiative on global Internet governance. They have initiatives and reports on practically everything under the sun. And it is not that WEF havent  had an initiative on IG ever before. They had for instance the 'Global Agenda Council on the Future of the Internet'. We could pass by another WEF initiative on IG without major attention or alarm. Although, overall most progressive actors globally remain considerably worried by the new global political assertion by the richest and the most powerful people in the world through the form and agency of the WEF and its outputs. But that larger concern is less of an issue here.
>> 
>> 2. Organisations and networks that I work with had expressed dis-satisfaction with the NetMundial process and outcomes. However, there are a larger number of civil society persons and groups who considered NetMundial just about what the doctor ordered, and have since been celebrating NetMundial as the way to go forward with regard to global Internet governance. Now, the surprise and the question is: when these civil society actors who have shown such deep commitment to NetMundial event and process as the ideal - or close by, received word on the WEF's taking over of the NetMundial process, why did they not simply and strongly CRY FOUL... Why did they not just say, this is not acceptable. You guys cannot highjack and run away with the brand of NetMundial. We own it 'together'. It was never supposed to be a forum led and guided by the richest and the most powerful of the world, and so on... And tell them to just back off. And tell them that they can forget any cooperation, much less, attendance, from any civil society person or group. Surely 'we ourselves' would in no way whatsoever lend any legitimacy to this process - forget about attending the meeting. 
>> 
>> 3. But I see nothing of such a kind. (In fact, very unfortunately we got to hear about this initiative through online leaks.) Yes, a feeble protestation and lament or two, with others not even doing  that and giving all the benefit of doubt to WEF and ICANN and whoever is behind it, of all the possible good intentions. If only, civil society groups and persons have reacted as I lay out above, this process could have been stopped in its tracks. 'They' need to have civil society play along, for the masquerade of multistakeholderism covering status quo power structures to work. Unfortunately, our civil society leaders never seem to show the strength of character, and leverage our collective strength which if properly used can be such strong force in shaping global IG regimes. We seem always so eager to give in. Lets be good, and trust other people's good intention! We failed to speak up when ICANN (at US's behest) so completely took over the Brazil meeting, and threw civil society's (direct) representational claims aside; we stood quite when 'they' foisted on us a civil society 'leader' at the Brazil meeting ; and we whimpered and pulled back again when 'they' ran away with what they wanted from the NetMundial outcome documents. Civil society always gives in. It was not supposed to be list this.
>> 
>> 4. What will happen next? Yes, the civil society participants at the WEF meeting will certainly say; no, this, is not the right way to do things. And 'they' will say, sorry, we did not mean to hurt you. We can always figure out the right way. And some concessions will be thrown civil society's way, like: ok, we will allow you to choose your reps (and then some groups/ persons will choose one another and be right back, now on the behalf of the global civil society), we will have a second phase after Feb 2015, which will be so much better (there is always a promised second phase, isnt it), and so on. With the hiccups accounted for, global IG civil society will again put back its pretty smile, and off it would sail, happily hereafter, in the lap of the richest and the most powerful, precisely from whom the Internet needs to be saved. But forget such petty details! We must celebrate the spirit and actions of multistakeholderism and not allow minor issues to come in its way!
>> 
>> But then maybe I am just a niggardly conspiracy theorist, and civil society actors here are going to get together and shoot a letter to the WEF to the effect that - it is none of their business to 
>> take up leadership of the NetMundial process, and we strongly resent efforts to highjack it. The plans for the proposed NetMundial Initiative must be shelved immediately, while WEF is welcome to undertake any IG initiative under any name that it deems fit, which is not a stolen one. In any case, do NOT expect any civil society actor to turn up, or at least none of those undersigned are going to be there... May, I suggest that we write such a letter from various civil society groups. Because I am bored with making up conspiracy theories :) 
>> 
>> parminder 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Saturday 16 August 2014 11:23 AM, parminder wrote:
>>> Tom/ All
>>> 
>>> A much bigger problem than of allocating technology provided gains between work (along with over consumption) and leisure (with more controlled consumption) is of the allocation between different groups and classes of people, and between different geo-regions. It is a completely inexcusable crime of all those who participate in the management of our societies today that even with such stupendous technology/ productivity gains, about 13 percent of the world's population still goes to bed hungry, and more than 30 percent of the children in developing countries are stunted due to malnourishment (In India, close to 40 percent). Nearly half the world's population lives on less that 2.5 dollars a day. 
>>> 
>>> "The world produces enough food to feed everyone...... the principal underlying cause of poverty and hunger is the ordinary operation of the economic and political systems in the world. Essentially control over resources and income is based on military, political and economic power that typically ends up in the hands of a minority, who live well, while those at the bottom barely survive, if they do."  http://www.worldhunger.org/articles/Learn/world%20hunger%20facts%202002.htm 
>>> 
>>> Meanwhile, wealth disparities are rising globally, at most places very rapidly. A recent report says that "the lower half of the global population possesses barely 1% of global wealth, while the richest 10% of adults own 86% of all wealth, and the top 1% account for 46% of the total. " And the concentration of wealth is worsening almost everywhere.
>>> 
>>> Nice time one would say to attempt to move the locus of global Internet governance to the World Economic Forum, that Mecca of the 1 percent, where 'they' develop blue prints for where the world should go from here. We certainly need their advice and leadership for shaping and governing the global Internet. Power on the Internet isnt already concentrated enough! 
>>> 
>>> One can only congratulate all those involved with the initiative, and those contributing to it!
>>> 
>>> Poor those who have been trying to occupy places that signified wealth concentration - the occupy movement. It appears that it is the civil society that is getting occupied in reverse. And it is running into the trap gleefully, with open arms.
>>> 
>>> parminder
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Saturday 16 August 2014 09:11 AM, Thomas Lowenhaupt wrote:
>>>> Mike,
>>>> 
>>>> Long ago I thought this problem could be solved by reallocating resources: The availability of farm machinery has created more food than we know what to do with; and half of New York seems to be filled with storage bins filled with the abundance of manufactured goods. And I thought that people be happy to retire at 30. 
>>>> 
>>>> But assuming an abundance of energy and no environmental limitations, would I like a 50 year retirement? These days I seem to live for my work. If some machine takes it away, I'd be left with a diminished life. 
>>>> 
>>>> How important is work to most peoples lives? 
>>>> 
>>>> Yes, I agree with the video, and the clock seems to be ticking.
>>>> 
>>>> By posting on the governance list are you suggesting that Internet governance and "technology management" be combined?
>>>> 
>>>> Tom Lowenhaupt
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 8/15/2014 6:42 PM, michael gurstein wrote:
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU
>>>>> 
>>>>> So what do we do?
>>>>> 
>>>>> M
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>> 
>> ____________________________________________________________
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> 
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From jefsey at jefsey.com  Sun Aug 17 08:03:12 2014
From: jefsey at jefsey.com (Jefsey)
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 14:03:12 +0200
Subject: [governance] WEF's NetMundial Initiative and civil society
In-Reply-To: <77E567DB63574E358BE65317A21A0CA9@Toshiba>
References: <044401cfb8d9$e79c7c00$b6d57400$@gmail.com>
 <044501cfb8da$2a3bb0d0$7eb31270$@gmail.com>
 <53EED2FE.5050300@communisphere.com>
 <53EEF1D9.3020808@itforchange.net>
 <53EF46D3.7050707@itforchange.net>
 <77E567DB63574E358BE65317A21A0CA9@Toshiba>
Message-ID: <E1XIz4S-0002fl-E1@igcaucus.org>

At 23:21 16/08/2014, Ian Peter wrote:
>  I would welcome some independent funding source that could 
> transparently support diverse and  representative CS participation 
> in such events. Otherwise multistakeholder is meaningless.

Ian,
you will say that I keep repeating myself, but the internet is a 
system made of our machines. If we were paying attention to it in a 
proper CS manner we would run it and make money enough to fund our 
agendas and make it behave the way we want, etc. People with money 
just earned it. Nothing prevents us from doing the same together. 
Nothing forced us to go for so long by rules we are not pleased with. ...
jfc




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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Sun Aug 17 13:12:31 2014
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 13:12:31 -0400
Subject: [governance] WEF's NetMundial Initiative and civil society
In-Reply-To: <53F0310B.4080008@itforchange.net>
References: <044401cfb8d9$e79c7c00$b6d57400$@gmail.com> <044501cfb8da$2a3bb0d0$7eb31270$@gmail.com> <53EED2FE.5050300@communisphere.com> <53EEF1D9.3020808@itforchange.net> <53EF46D3.7050707@itforchange.net> <77E567DB63574E358BE65317A21A0CA9@Toshiba> <53F0310B.4080008@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <53F0E27F.40606@mail.utoronto.ca>

There have been many good and useful things said on this list, and the 
1net list.  I wanted to respond to some; I will try to be brief and 
round them all up here, ccing the folks on the 1net list whom I wish to 
respond to, not knowing whether others on this list want their views shared.
1.  I tend to agree with Nnenna's comment last week that moving forward 
is better than going in circles.  However, the fact that she cannot 
attend the August meeting yet is listed is troubling.  Tick box checked, 
African civil society person invited.  The fact that the visa is a 
problem is also, I think, a matter we should try and fix.  As a spoiled 
westerner, I must confess I was shocked at the discussion about the 
hassles of getting visas for IGF.  Surely host countries of Internet 
governance and ICANN meetings can do better, in terms of streamlining 
the visa process?  IF not, it makes a mockery of the multi-stakeholder 
process that is supposed to be embracing developing countries.  I was 
surprised to learn that when Toronto hosted the ICANN meeting a couple 
of years ago, many people could not get visas, and if anyone can give me 
further details on that, I would like to be enlightened.  I know we 
could not get one of our experts on the EWG into Buenos Aires for that 
ICANN meeting last year, and I am sure there are many other examples.  I 
see this as a problem that needs fixing, and yes I understand the 
sovereign rights of states, which is why fixing it could take time and 
serious effort.  Necessary if we are not to be hypocritical though.  I 
will refrain from breaking into a separate rant about free trade without 
free movement of people.
2.  I must confess a bias against Davos and the WEF.  I have never been, 
but I have seen folks in both public and private sector who went, coming 
back with a glitter in their eyes indicating a sense of their own 
importance in global governance that I regard as worrisome.  Perhaps it 
is the altitude, but I suspect it is the sense of exclusiveness.  This 
is not the spirit we want for global internet governance.  I make no 
apology for sounding like a Puritan.
3.  Re WSIS....I might not go so far as Parminder does, but I think he 
has a point.  Those who go to the Netmundial meeting in August must be 
very careful to re-steer the ship towards open, fair, multi-stakeholder 
processes.  The Brazilian Netmundial was not perfect, but our hosts 
worked very hard, trying very hard, to manage the politics and be 
inclusive (here, of course, I am disagreeing with Parminder's 
conclusions about that meeting).  I think it was a real step forward and 
we must ensure we don't step backwards.  RE Parminder's last line, which 
I think bears repetition..../Good to keep civil society occupied..../I 
think this is a very real issue/risk.  I cannot keep up with the number 
of processes going on, things to read and comment on, etc.  Every minute 
spent on that is a minute not spent on fixing a tangible problem (eg.  
Visas, long term funding for IGF, lobbying government to pitch in and 
take a stand on a few key issues, locating new and young talent to get 
engaged, writing a new privacy policy for ICANN, developing a plan for 
anonymous domain registration, etc etc.)  All these meetings in exotic 
places must be assessed re outcomes, or we are wasting our time.  
Meetings in exotic places (being puritanical again) cannot become the 
golden apples that Hippomenes used to divert Atalanta and win the 
race...having said that, I am very encouraged to see who is going, and I 
am sure that this tiny crew will represent us nobly.
Stephanie Perrin
On 14-08-17 12:35 AM, parminder wrote:
> Not responding to Ian who is basically telling us not to do anything , 
> which is very fine with me, since my organisation and networks in any 
> case did not approve of the NetMundial process very much, as it 
> finally ended up. And so if it is now headed rather more clearly and 
> visibly to what we have been saying it is leaning towards (corporate 
> capture) we can simply say - did we not tell you! However painful for 
> us it is to say so.
>
> I will here just point to the fact, about which much blindness is 
> being practised - that the WEF initiative is but an obvious effort to 
> scuttle and undermine the WSIS plus 10 process. After US and its 
> allies tried their best inside the UN to prevent a high level plus 10 
> review, which they could not because it is mandated in the Tunis 
> agenda, it is now up to their lackeys in the private sector and the so 
> called techncial sector (ICANN) to take forward the dirty tricks work 
> - to do just everything to prevent a more democratic addressing of the 
> global Internet policy issues, which to almost everyone's mind are 
> becoming more and more serious by the day. And civil society is 
> playing along......
>
> Meanwhile, do remember (and a lot of effort is being put to forget 
> that fact) that developing countries had been asking for a full 
> fledged WSIS review process on the same lines as the original WSIS, 
> with prepcoms and all (this was repeatedly stated in G 77 draft 
> resolution for WSIS 10 review) . Once it were mandated so by th Gen 
> Assembly, we could have sought and perhaps got even better 
> participation methods beyond WSIS (which was itself highly 
> participatoy) by some on the floor tactics (as we did in the original 
> WSIS). But I do not understand why civil society positions always seem 
> to go with that of the US in such forums. In any case, after trying 
> not to allow any high level review at all, the developed countires 
> then managed to box the review process into as limited a space and 
> time as possible, in NY (and Not Geneva, mind it) */which is primarily 
> responsible for making the participatory processes around it so 
> poor./* But the fun is, civil society now joins the US and its allies 
> to again blame the developing countries for this outcome that WSIS 
> plus 10 will not be as participatory as WSIS was. (Developing 
> countries do not have the time, resources or skills to confront such 
> propaganda, and so it goes on..) . Just how powerful some people are...
>
> And now since the developed countries have screwed up WSIS plus 10 and 
> its participatory processes - so would the spiel go - the real 
> processes have to work outside the UN system. That is what the new 
> NetMundial Initiative is supposed to be, now under the powerful arua 
> and resources of the WEF .... But we can keep taking about trifles and 
> the good intention of all people. Good to keep civil society occupied.
>
> parminder
>
>
> On Sunday 17 August 2014 02:51 AM, Ian Peter wrote:
>> From a personal perspective -
>> I was also annoyed at the use of netmundial as a brand by WEF – their 
>> letterhead on the leaked documents shows netmundial.org as a document 
>> footer on World Economic Forum letterhead.
>> I asked about this with no reply, and a whois search reveals a 
>> private owner of netmundial.org. However, given its existence and 
>> historical use prior to the Brazilian event, it would appear that the 
>> domain name is owned by ICANN. It would therefore seem that ICANN 
>> allowed WEF use of the name.
>> I would be keen to know the conditions (if any) attached to this use. 
>> I would also think that perhaps the original netmundial site 
>> (netmundial.br) should be watching this closely and reacting if the 
>> brand is compromised. As far as I can see netmundial.br is not ICANN 
>> property.
>> In any case; at this stage the WEF initiative is to bring together 
>> some people to form an initiative – it is not announcing WEF or the 
>> meeting attendees as the NetMundial initiative, but a group of people 
>> discussing how to form such an initiative.
>> If CS withdraws, people will claim that CS was represented anyway, 
>> given that in that category the meeting organisers include 
>> (erroneously) ISOC, technical community reps, and UN officials. They 
>> will just say a radical fringe withdrew.
>> So, much though I think the representation is unbalanced, and much 
>> though I think the use of the term netmundial by WEF should be 
>> strongly challenged, I think the best approach to dealing with this 
>> is for the (very few) CS reps to attend and say this strongly, 
>> pointing forcefully to the netmundial principles including 
>> transparency and inclusiveness, and insisting that these be followed 
>> in any initiative. If there is to be a walkout because the emerging 
>> initiative does not take account of these and associated netmundial 
>> principles, I think a walkout during the meeting would draw more 
>> attention than a boycott beforehand.
>> What I would actually hope for, and what would be consistent with the 
>> multistakeholder beliefs espoused (but not always practiced) by 
>> ICANN, USG et al who are key participants of this meeting, would be 
>> for WEF to commit funds *with no conditions whatsoever* to an ongoing 
>> initiative which ensures inclusiveness, equitable representation for 
>> civil society, and looks to develop equitable participation in 
>> internet governance. If there was an outcome where such funds were 
>> committed to an ongoing initiative without conditions, that could be 
>> useful. And it the resulting initiative was formed with the right 
>> principles, and carried forward the name netmundial, that would be 
>> fine I think. A lot to hope for I know...
>> But we certainly need something to happen.  This years IGC looks like 
>> it will be without one of our IGC co ordinators, because of lack of 
>> funding. I will not be able to attend for similar reasons, nor will 
>> Gunela, organising a disability workshop. I am sure there are many 
>> others. The current situation where funding bodies work independently 
>> and in an ad hoc manner to fund whoever *they* want to attend IGF etc 
>> is problematic in the extreme, and I would welcome some independent 
>> funding source that could transparently support diverse and 
>> representative CS participation in such events. Otherwise 
>> multistakeholder is meaningless.
>> Ian Peter
>> *From:* parminder <mailto:parminder at itforchange.net>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 16, 2014 9:56 PM
>> *To:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org 
>> <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
>> *Subject:* [governance] WEF's NetMundial Initiative and civil society
>>
>> Let me try and put down my views on the World Economic Forum's 
>> NetMundial Initiative <http://t.co/xUxOf0AvLl> being launched in 
>> Geneva on 28th of Aug, of which quite a number of people here seem to 
>> be a part of, in one way or the other.
>>
>> 1. On the face of it, one does not have any problem with the World 
>> Economic Forum (WEF) undertaking an initiative on global Internet 
>> governance. They have initiatives and reports on practically 
>> everything under the sun. And it is not that WEF havent  had an 
>> initiative on IG ever before. They had for instance the 'Global 
>> Agenda Council on the Future of the Internet'. We could pass by 
>> another WEF initiative on IG without major attention or alarm. 
>> Although, overall most progressive actors globally remain 
>> considerably worried by the new global political assertion by the 
>> richest and the most powerful people in the world through the form 
>> and agency of the WEF and its outputs. But that larger concern is 
>> less of an issue here.
>>
>> 2. Organisations and networks that I work with had expressed 
>> dis-satisfaction with the NetMundial process and outcomes. However, 
>> there are a larger number of civil society persons and groups who 
>> considered NetMundial just about what the doctor ordered, and have 
>> since been celebrating NetMundial as the way to go forward with 
>> regard to global Internet governance. Now, the surprise and the 
>> question is: when these civil society actors who have shown such deep 
>> commitment to NetMundial event and process as the ideal - or close 
>> by, received word on the WEF's taking over of the NetMundial process, 
>> /*why did they not simply and strongly CRY FOUL*/... Why did they not 
>> just say, this is not acceptable. You guys cannot highjack and run 
>> away with the brand of NetMundial. We own it 'together'. It was never 
>> supposed to be a forum led and guided by the richest and the most 
>> powerful of the world, and so on... And tell them to just back off. 
>> And tell them that they can forget any cooperation, much less, 
>> attendance, from any civil society person or group. Surely 'we 
>> ourselves' would in no way whatsoever lend any legitimacy to this 
>> process - forget about attending the meeting.
>>
>> 3. But I see nothing of such a kind. (In fact, very unfortunately we 
>> got to hear about this initiative through online leaks.) Yes, a 
>> feeble protestation and lament or two, with others not even doing  
>> that and giving all the benefit of doubt to WEF and ICANN and whoever 
>> is behind it, of all the possible good intentions. If only, civil 
>> society groups and persons have reacted as I lay out above, /*this 
>> process could have been stopped in its tracks*/. '/They/' need to 
>> have civil society play along, for the masquerade of 
>> multistakeholderism covering status quo power structures to work. 
>> Unfortunately, our civil society leaders never seem to show the 
>> strength of character, and leverage our collective strength which if 
>> properly used can be such strong force in shaping global IG regimes. 
>> We seem always so eager to give in. Lets be good, and trust other 
>> people's good intention! We failed to speak up when ICANN (at US's 
>> behest) so completely took over the Brazil meeting, and threw civil 
>> society's (direct) representational claims aside; we stood quite when 
>> 'they' foisted on us a civil society 'leader' at the Brazil meeting ; 
>> and we whimpered and pulled back again when 'they' ran away with what 
>> they wanted from the NetMundial outcome documents. Civil society 
>> always gives in. It was not supposed to be list this.
>>
>> 4. What will happen next? Yes, the civil society participants at the 
>> WEF meeting will certainly say; no, this, is not the right way to do 
>> things. And 'they' will say, sorry, we did not mean to hurt you. We 
>> can always figure out the right way. And some concessions will be 
>> thrown civil society's way, like: ok, we will allow you to choose 
>> your reps (and then some groups/ persons will choose one another and 
>> be right back, now on the behalf of the global civil society), we 
>> will have a second phase after Feb 2015, which will be so much better 
>> (there is always a promised second phase, isnt it), and so on. With 
>> the hiccups accounted for, global IG civil society will again put 
>> back its pretty smile, and off it would sail, happily hereafter, in 
>> the lap of the richest and the most powerful, precisely from whom the 
>> Internet needs to be saved. But forget such petty details! We must 
>> celebrate the spirit and actions of multistakeholderism and not allow 
>> minor issues to come in its way!
>>
>> But then maybe I am just a niggardly conspiracy theorist, and civil 
>> society actors here are going to get together and shoot a letter to 
>> the WEF to the effect that - it is none of their business to
>> take up leadership of the NetMundial process, and we strongly resent 
>> efforts to highjack it. The plans for the proposed NetMundial 
>> Initiative must be shelved immediately, while WEF is welcome to 
>> undertake any IG initiative under any name that it deems fit, which 
>> is not a stolen one. In any case, do NOT expect any civil society 
>> actor to turn up, or at least none of those undersigned are going to 
>> be there... May, I suggest that we write such a letter from various 
>> civil society groups. Because I am bored with making up conspiracy 
>> theories :)
>>
>> parminder
>>
>>
>>
>> On Saturday 16 August 2014 11:23 AM, parminder wrote:
>>> Tom/ All
>>>
>>> A much bigger problem than of allocating technology provided gains 
>>> between work (along with over consumption) and leisure (with more 
>>> controlled consumption) is of the allocation between different 
>>> groups and classes of people, and between different geo-regions. It 
>>> is a completely inexcusable crime of all those who participate in 
>>> the management of our societies today that even with such stupendous 
>>> technology/ productivity gains, about 13 percent of the world's 
>>> population still goes to bed hungry, and more than 30 percent of the 
>>> children in developing countries are stunted due to malnourishment 
>>> (In India, close to 40 percent). Nearly half the world's population 
>>> lives on less that 2.5 dollars a day.
>>>
>>> "The world produces enough food to feed everyone...... the principal 
>>> underlying cause of poverty and hunger is the ordinary operation of 
>>> the economic and political systems in the world. Essentially control 
>>> over resources and income is based on military, political and 
>>> economic power that typically ends up in the hands of a minority, 
>>> who live well, while those at the bottom barely survive, if they 
>>> do." 
>>> http://www.worldhunger.org/articles/Learn/world%20hunger%20facts%202002.htm 
>>>
>>>
>>> Meanwhile, wealth disparities are rising globally, at most places 
>>> very rapidly. A recent report says that "the lower half of the 
>>> global population possesses barely 1% of global wealth, while the 
>>> richest 10% of adults own 86% of all wealth, and the top 1% account 
>>> for 46% of the total. " And the concentration of wealth is worsening 
>>> almost everywhere.
>>>
>>> Nice time one would say to attempt to move the locus of global 
>>> Internet governance to the World Economic Forum 
>>> <http://t.co/xUxOf0AvLl>, that Mecca of the 1 percent, where 'they' 
>>> develop blue prints for where the world should go from here. We 
>>> certainly need their advice and leadership for shaping and governing 
>>> the global Internet. Power on the Internet isnt already concentrated 
>>> enough!
>>>
>>> One can only congratulate all those involved with the initiative, 
>>> and those contributing to it!
>>>
>>> Poor those who have been trying to occupy places that signified 
>>> wealth concentration - the occupy movement. It appears that it is 
>>> the civil society that is getting occupied in reverse. And it is 
>>> running into the trap gleefully, with open arms.
>>>
>>> parminder
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday 16 August 2014 09:11 AM, Thomas Lowenhaupt wrote:
>>>> Mike,
>>>>
>>>> Long ago I thought this problem could be solved by reallocating 
>>>> resources: The availability of farm machinery has created more food 
>>>> than we know what to do with; and half of New York seems to be 
>>>> filled with storage bins filled with the abundance of manufactured 
>>>> goods. And I thought that people be happy to retire at 30.
>>>>
>>>> But assuming an abundance of energy and no environmental 
>>>> limitations, would I like a 50 year retirement? These days I seem 
>>>> to live for my work. If some machine takes it away, I'd be left 
>>>> with a diminished life.
>>>>
>>>> How important is work to most peoples lives?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I agree with the video, and the clock seems to be ticking.
>>>>
>>>> By posting on the governance list are you suggesting that Internet 
>>>> governance and "technology management" be combined?
>>>>
>>>> Tom Lowenhaupt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 8/15/2014 6:42 PM, michael gurstein wrote:
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU
>>>>>
>>>>> So what do we do?
>>>>>
>>>>> M
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ____________________________________________________________
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From joly at punkcast.com  Sun Aug 17 14:15:57 2014
From: joly at punkcast.com (Joly MacFie)
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 14:15:57 -0400
Subject: [governance] ICANN Report: Overview and History of the IANA
 Functions
Message-ID: <CAM9VJk0F8EpVb5ZJHpY1WESr7=Lk1U=6JYoL3rNKuU_6ksGiNQ@mail.gmail.com>

As discussion continues on the US NTIA prposal to transfer stewardship of
the IANA functions  to the multistakeholder community continues, there is
still a fair degree of ignorance as to just what the functions are, and
their history.  This report serves as a valuable primer.

 joly posted: "ICANN's Security and Stability Advisory Committee (SSAC) has
issued a report "Overview and History of the IANA Functions". The report
describes the activities included in the IANA Functions contract as well as
the functions performed under the IETF MoU in"


ICANN's Security and Stability Advisory Committee
<https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/ssac-2012-02-25-en> (SSAC) has
issued a report "*Overview and History of the IANA Functions*
<https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/sac-067-en.pdf>". The report
describes the activities included in the IANA Functions contract as well as
the functions performed under the IETF MoU in order to establish a baseline
of understanding for those interested in how the upper-most level of the
Internet’s system of unique identifiers is managed. It focuses primarily on
the IANA Functions contract, but is intended to describe all of the
activities related to the IANA Functions as they are currently performed,
including those that lie outside of the IANA Functions contract.
[image: IANA Fig 1]
 <https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/sac-067-en.pdf>

*Report*: https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/sac-067-en.pdf
*Infographic*:
http://www.slideshare.net/icannpresentations/the-iana-functions
*Twitter*: #‎IANASteward
<https://twitter.com/search?f=realtime&q=%23IANASteward%E2%80%AC&src=typd>‬




Comment <http://isoc-ny.org/p2/6898#respond>    See all comments
<http://isoc-ny.org/p2/6898#comments>





*Permalink*
http://isoc-ny.org/p2/6898








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From parminder at itforchange.net  Mon Aug 18 02:36:35 2014
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 12:06:35 +0530
Subject: [governance] WSIS 10+
In-Reply-To: <CAJqNAHAvqz8ju=MFiFeQrZiFm_0chcNU8QG1ZxVMtt5SHKXptA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <53B928BE.3040603@itforchange.net>	<53B93A3B.6090707@ITforChange.net>	<53DB56F7.3070702@digsys.bg>	<a8ce3c8ab2dc4efc8c97c73b09608e69@EX13-MBX-07.ad.syr.edu>	<2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A801642514@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>	<4D8B9C3E-9136-4DE7-A295-57C742166B11@theglobaljournal.net>	<53DFA103.2090808@digsys.bg>	<9B82DF7F-8579-43E6-BFCC-62A2C3764EDB@theglobaljournal.net> <CAJqNAHAvqz8ju=MFiFeQrZiFm_0chcNU8QG1ZxVMtt5SHKXptA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53F19EF3.9050801@itforchange.net>


On Wednesday 06 August 2014 12:22 AM, Anja Kovacs wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> For those who are interested, there is a plenary session on 
> "Developing the information society beyond 2015: lessons from the 
> WSIS+10 Review and NETmundial", organised by the Internet Democracy 
> Project, tomorrow, 6 August, at 1 pm IST at the APrIGF. I have pasted 
> the full details of the plenary below this message.
>
> Remote participation should be available, (see 
> http://2014.rigf.asia/remote/) though I heard that unfortunately today 
> there were quite a few problems with it.
>
> And +1 to the proposals to write a letter to the UN Secretary General, 
> as well as to the USG and, I would propose, to Fadi Chehade, who seems 
> to have become the undisputed cheerleader of the USG position now that 
> the latter in many ways stands publicly discredited when it comes to 
> "Internet freedom" and multistakeholderism.
>
> As for Parminder's question "Did we ever ask for the WSIS model (of 
> course with evolutionary improvements) for WSIS plus 10 review. No, no 
> one did" - I thought that I share again this letter that some of us 
> (including some who have been following the WSIS+10 Review quite 
> closely) wrote to the facilitators of the governmental negotiation 
> processes in February. I think it quite clearly disproves the points 
> that Parminder was making in his message above.
>
> http://internetdemocracy.in/2014/02/letter-to-co-facilitators-calling-for-civil-society-input-into-negotiations-on-wsis10-modalities/

Sorry Anja, that I did not respond to this earlier. The recent exchange 
about WSIS 10 reminded me of it.

I am aware of the letter that you refer to. However, the issue is 
deeper. I am sure that you know that developing countries, through the G 
77 drafts, have been asking for a full scale WSIS plus 10 review on the 
lines of the original WSIS which would included prepcoms and all (this 
was the specific language of the G 77 drafts) . If the developed 
countries had agreed to this demand - and at least civil society groups 
supported it - we could have had the WSIS level openness and 
participativeness as the baseline, which we would certainly have 
improved upon through on the floor tactics, as were employed during the 
WSIS - 2014 being much different from 2003-5

However, for the last two years, US and its allies have been resisting 
tooth and nail the demand for a WSIS 10 review that is of the scale and 
pattern of the original WSIS, with its very open prepcoms. And civil 
society groups have either directly, or indirectly, supported the US and 
its allies in this.  This is the reason we have a truncated review 
process, with truncated participatory processes, and in NY rather than 
Geneva, which venue has developed better participatory processes.

Now, if civil society groups really wanted a participatory and open WSIS 
plus 10, the simple expedient would have been to support the G 77's 
efforts in this direction... But would that not been to do the 
unmentionable! And obviously, not a single word got said by civil 
society, much less a letter, to support G 77 demand for full scale WSIS 
plus 10 with prepcoms.... When over the many months, to do this was the 
right imperative, we heard all kinds of voices - including from civil 
society - that WSIS 10 should be merged with SDG review - also US's 
demand - which even a child can make out is nothing other than to make 
sure that political issues like those related to global IG do not become 
prominent enough. This was plain disingenuous.

(I am of course completely cognisant to the elements within G 77 who do 
not want open participatory processes. However, the case is not helped 
by civil society, business and technical community engagements, which 
simply *do not* want any real UN based reviews or other IG processes. 
That kind of attitude simple makes those within G 77 opposed to 
participatory processes feel more self -justified, and justified to 
others within G 77 who otherwise are more open to participatory processes.)

Such a role having been played by most non state actors involved in the 
process for the past many months, now to rue that we have a push back 
from even the WSIS level of participation I think needs to be seen 
through a critical, if not out-rightly doubtful, eyes... We got it upon 
ourselves, because of our eagerness to side with the US and its allies 
to hamstring any worthwhile UN based global IG processes, either 
directly, or through entirely unsustainable demands that actual 
developments of what would be summit level binding documents be done on 
an equal-footing, where inter alia, big business has a veto... A process 
that is followed nowhere, not in the developed countries, and not in 
OECD and Council of Europe's Internet policy development processes. It 
is simply impossible to follow it, becuase it is simply unconstitutional 
for almost all policy forums including the ones mentioned... But 
somehow, UN should follow it, and it is a villain if it does not, hell 
be upon it.

parminder



>
> Best regards,
> Anja
>
> *Title:* "*Developing the information society beyond 2015: lessons 
> from the WSIS+10 Review and NETmundial*"
>
> Format: Panel discussion
>
> Invited panelists:
>
> Mr. Adam Peake - GLOCOM
> Dr. Anja Kovacs - Internet Democracy Project
> Dr. Govind - NIXI
> Mr. Hardeep Singh Puri - Bharatiya Janata Party and formerly 
> Government of India
> Mr. Paul Wilson - APNIC
> Mr. Rajnesh Singh - ISOC
>
> Moderator: Prof. Ang Peng Hwa - Nanyan Technological University, 
> Singapore
>
> Abstract:
>
> In 2015 the WSIS is up for an overall review. Though strictly speaking 
> the WSIS was supposed to be about ICTs and development, the Internet 
> governance issues that are contained in it have obtained a growing 
> role. In fact, during the multistakeholder WSIS+10 MPP meetings, the 
> debate on many more 'hard core' development issues often seemed to be 
> held hostage to the IG debate, in that there was a reluctance to agree 
> on new language for fear of the possible wider implications of such 
> language.
>
> The ICTs for development agenda continues, however, to be of great 
> importance for many countries in our region. This then raises the 
> question of how the development agenda contained in the WSIS can be 
> revitalised. What shape do we want the WSIS agenda and process to take 
> beyond 2015? What shape do the overall review in 2015 and its 
> preparatory processes need to take for this to be possible? What 
> lessons can we learn from both the content and form of discussions at 
> the WSIS+10 MPP and the WGEC to take the Internet governance debate 
> forward in a way that serves the Asia-Pacific region and ensures that 
> the development debate can gain greater prominence again? What role 
> can and do efforts such as the NETmundial, but also national Internet 
> governance processes play in shaping this?
>
> The session will reflect on our experiences of the past 11 years as 
> part of the WSIS process to move forward towards a better future, and 
> include a consideration of lessons learned from multistakeholder 
> processes such as the NETmundial, the MPP and the WGEC on how to best 
> get the IG part of the WSIS agenda unstuck.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 4 August 2014 21:39, Jean-Christophe NOTHIAS I The Global Journal 
> <jc.nothias at theglobaljournal.net 
> <mailto:jc.nothias at theglobaljournal.net>> wrote:
>
>     Thanks Daniel, for your point about Democracy. We all agree that
>     Democracy is a fragile world that can easily be twisted or lost.
>     It is rather difficult to admit that such a failure or loss can be
>     the result of the wrong acting by a dominating player, presumably
>     not a rogue state.
>
>     Applied to mass surveillance, it seems indeed a good idea to put
>     Democracy in practice: a well-balanced (and checked) democratic
>     system allows separation of powers (1), and counter-power (2)
>     within its own governing system. I am glad to act as a responsible
>     citizen, as you suggest, and bring my voice to the protesting
>     ones, but that still sounds a bit naive without the two previous
>     settings. So it seems to me that the surveillance planet is not a
>     flat one where all countries show the same surveillance power and
>     desire. So maybe we should not close our eyes so to pass on from
>     on secret to another, concluding that all secret services are
>     equal. I don't think secret services are supposed to spy simply
>     every citizen on this planet. That was the Stasi dream, or the
>     Stalinist bureaucratic terror. In Democracy, where trust and
>     willingness to act together are fundamental assets, this is a
>     great loss of taxpayer money. So, please allow me to disagree: the
>     US have to prove better, and not worse. See their whistleblower
>     new legal vision: a whistleblower should be allowed to speak to
>     its boss! This is presented as a progress, when it is just the
>     opposite.
>
>     As Internet governance cannot be contained within the boundaries
>     of one single country, neither be managed by one single country,
>     how do we deal with a democratic approach taking into account the
>     two previous points (1) and (2)?
>
>     Publicity is a good starting point at citizen level. But CS might
>     push a little further its thinking and influence to offer
>     governance innovation to politicians if they have some trouble to
>     understand what citizens are concerned about, and not just
>     lobbyists or PR consultants are telling them over a nice
>     gastronomic table.
>
>     Another good point for a good start would be to call a cat a cat:
>     I know only one country, moreover a self-proclaimed champion of
>     freedom of speech that has the technical power to organize and
>     handle mass surveillance, thanks to its dominant private sector
>     champions. So even though we can agree on the idea not to play the
>     antagonistic game, we still have to agree on definitions and
>     meanings, we still need to have acceptance for diversity of views
>     and opinions. We also have to accept to speak truth to power:
>     there was no power grab attempt from ITU in December 2012, neither
>     before, nor after. And there is still not. The current asymmetry
>     cannot be but condemned. And we need more US voices to honestly
>     admit that things have to change.
>
>     All of that means democracy. To cherish it means to use it.
>
>     JC
>
>
>     Le 4 août 2014 à 17:04, Daniel Kalchev a écrit :
>
>>
>>     On 04.08.14 12:18, Jean-Christophe NOTHIAS I The Global Journal
>>     wrote:
>>>     Nota Bene: Wolfgang, I hope you noticed that I did not mention
>>>     the troubling fact that the US surveillance of all Internet
>>>     users browsing and emailing over the beautiful unified,
>>>     un-fragmented Internet under one single root-zone management,
>>>     and of all phone users, including president Rousseff, Chancellor
>>>     Merkel, European diplomats, BRICS diplomats, all diplomats,
>>>     politicians, citizens, that were hostage of the US surveillance
>>>     paranoia and infernalia. We all pay for that.
>>
>>     Yes, we do all pay for that.
>>
>>     But then, what can we do to resolve this situation? The US secret
>>     services agencies will continue to do all of this, no matter
>>     what. This is why they exist. Most of them run on military style
>>     management, and obeying orders is mandatory there. The same can
>>     be said about the secret services of any other country. Or any
>>     special interests group.
>>
>>     My experience dealing with this kind of 'operations' is that your
>>     working route is publicity. Talk about it. Don't let them do it
>>     in secret. Cops hate being exposed. Let Internet users become
>>     aware what is going on. Don't waste your time politicizing it, in
>>     the sense of "those bad XYZ spying on us good ABC", because this
>>     is nonsense (and not true in general). If Internet users don't
>>     mind being subject of surveillance, who are we to force them?
>>
>>     If Internet users are so upset about this situation, they as
>>     individuals having (whatever - voting, buying, etc) power will
>>     act up and fix it.
>>
>>     Isn't this how democracy should function? :-)
>>
>>     Daniel
>>
>>
>>>
>>>     So yes let's the CS write to USG and its digital champions.
>>>     Let's start to balance our role.
>>>
>>>     That is something everyone has obviously in mind when
>>>     considering the fact that governments are no longer to be seen
>>>     out of the IG game. One good reason to have CS coming strong
>>>     into the democratic multistakeholder model, JNC and others are
>>>     advocating.
>>>
>>>     JC
>>>
>>>     Le 4 août 2014 à 10:46, Kleinwächter, Wolfgang a écrit :
>>>
>>>>     http://www.outlookindia.com/news/article/UN-Adopts-Resolution-on-Bridging-Digital-Divide/852511
>>>>
>>>>     Outlook India:
>>>>     The resolution decided that the overall review will be
>>>>     concluded in December 2015 by a two-day General Assembly
>>>>     high-level meeting to be preceded by an inter-governmental
>>>>     preparatory process that also takes into account inputs from
>>>>     all relevant stakeholders of WSIS.  The intergovernmental
>>>>     negotiation process would begin in June 2015 and lead to an
>>>>     inter-governmentally agreed outcome document for adoption at
>>>>     the UNGA meeting. The process retains the ownership of the
>>>>     preparatory meetings and the final outcome document with member
>>>>     states alone. Mukerji said the resolution ensures that leaders,
>>>>     "at the highest possible level" will meet at the high-level
>>>>     plenary meeting in December next year to adopt the outcome of
>>>>     the intergovernmental negotiations.
>>>>
>>>>     Wolfgang:
>>>>     One of the big achievements in the WSIS process was that civil
>>>>     society got a voice in the process. A Milestone was the CS WSIS
>>>>     Declaratzion from December 2003 which was handed over to the
>>>>     president of the first summit, WSIS 1. It became an official
>>>>     document. The Tunis Agenda confirmed and enhanced the role of
>>>>     civil society. As you can see from the text above, ten years
>>>>     later this process is back in the hands of "governments only".
>>>>     The final outcome document will be with member states only by
>>>>     taking into account inputs from all relevant stakeholders
>>>>     (which sounds like a joke with the experiences of a enhanced
>>>>     communicartion and cooperation over the last ten years,
>>>>     including the UNCSTD WGs. Should civil society write a letter
>>>>     to UN Secretary General Ban Kin Moon?
>>>>     <ATT00001.png>____________________________________________________________
>>>>     You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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>>>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>>
>>>>     Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>
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From jlfullsack at orange.fr  Mon Aug 18 18:17:28 2014
From: jlfullsack at orange.fr (Jean-Louis FULLSACK)
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 00:17:28 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [governance] WEF's NetMundial Initiative and civil society
In-Reply-To: <53EF46D3.7050707@itforchange.net>
References: <044401cfb8d9$e79c7c00$b6d57400$@gmail.com>
 <044501cfb8da$2a3bb0d0$7eb31270$@gmail.com>
 <53EED2FE.5050300@communisphere.com> <53EEF1D9.3020808@itforchange.net>
 <53EF46D3.7050707@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <439225787.20590.1408400248826.JavaMail.www@wwinf1e19>

 +1 for this, Parminder !

 

 

This reminds me an attempt -actually a hidden "coup d'Etat"- from Bertrand de la Chapelle during a PrepCom CS Plenary meeting in the Geneva phase for establishing a "mixed PS-CS body" for having a stronger voice in WSIS decision making ....  With the WEF as a "stakeholder" in the IG process, CS is definitely in progress !



Jean-Louis Fullsack




> Message du 16/08/14 13:56
> De : "parminder" 

> A : "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" 
> Copie à : 
> Objet : [governance] WEF's NetMundial Initiative and civil society
> 
>
> Let me try and put down my views on the World Economic Forum's NetMundial Initiative being launched in Geneva on 28th of Aug, of which quite a number of people here seem to be a part of, in one way or the other.
> 
> 1. On the face of it, one does not have any problem with the World Economic Forum (WEF) undertaking an initiative on global Internet governance. They have initiatives and reports on practically everything under the sun. And it is not that WEF havent  had an initiative on IG ever before. They had for instance the 'Global Agenda Council on the Future of the Internet'. We could pass by another WEF initiative on IG without major attention or alarm. Although, overall most progressive actors globally remain considerably worried by the new global political assertion by the richest and the most powerful people in the world through the form and agency of the WEF and its outputs. But that larger concern is less of an issue here.
> 
> 2. Organisations and networks that I work with had expressed dis-satisfaction with the NetMundial process and outcomes. However, there are a larger number of civil society persons and groups who considered NetMundial just about what the doctor ordered, and have since been celebrating NetMundial as the way to go forward with regard to global Internet governance. Now, the surprise and the question is: when these civil society actors who have shown such deep commitment to NetMundial event and process as the ideal - or close by, received word on the WEF's taking over of the NetMundial process, why did they not simply and strongly CRY FOUL... Why did they not just say, this is not acceptable. You guys cannot highjack and run away with the brand of NetMundial. We own it 'together'. It was never supposed to be a forum led and guided by the richest and the most powerful of the world, and so on... And tell them to just back off. And tell them that they can forget any cooperation, much less, attendance, from any civil society person or group. Surely 'we ourselves' would in no way whatsoever lend any legitimacy to this process - forget about attending the meeting. 
> 
> 3. But I see nothing of such a kind. (In fact, very unfortunately we got to hear about this initiative through online leaks.) Yes, a feeble protestation and lament or two, with others not even doing  that and giving all the benefit of doubt to WEF and ICANN and whoever is behind it, of all the possible good intentions. If only, civil society groups and persons have reacted as I lay out above, this process could have been stopped in its tracks. 'They' need to have civil society play along, for the masquerade of multistakeholderism covering status quo power structures to work. Unfortunately, our civil society leaders never seem to show the strength of character, and leverage our collective strength which if properly used can be such strong force in shaping global IG regimes. We seem always so eager to give in. Lets be good, and trust other people's good intention! We failed to speak up when ICANN (at US's behest) so completely took over the Brazil meeting, and threw civil society's (direct) representational claims aside; we stood quite when 'they' foisted on us a civil society 'leader' at the Brazil meeting ; and we whimpered and pulled back again when 'they' ran away with what they wanted from the NetMundial outcome documents. Civil society always gives in. It was not supposed to be list this.
> 
> 4. What will happen next? Yes, the civil society participants at the WEF meeting will certainly say; no, this, is not the right way to do things. And 'they' will say, sorry, we did not mean to hurt you. We can always figure out the right way. And some concessions will be thrown civil society's way, like: ok, we will allow you to choose your reps (and then some groups/ persons will choose one another and be right back, now on the behalf of the global civil society), we will have a second phase after Feb 2015, which will be so much better (there is always a promised second phase, isnt it), and so on. With the hiccups accounted for, global IG civil society will again put back its pretty smile, and off it would sail, happily hereafter, in the lap of the richest and the most powerful, precisely from whom the Internet needs to be saved. But forget such petty details! We must celebrate the spirit and actions of multistakeholderism and not allow minor issues to come in its way!
> 
> But then maybe I am just a niggardly conspiracy theorist, and civil society actors here are going to get together and shoot a letter to the WEF to the effect that - it is none of their business to 
> take up leadership of the NetMundial process, and we strongly resent efforts to highjack it. The plans for the proposed NetMundial Initiative must be shelved immediately, while WEF is welcome to undertake any IG initiative under any name that it deems fit, which is not a stolen one. In any case, do NOT expect any civil society actor to turn up, or at least none of those undersigned are going to be there... May, I suggest that we write such a letter from various civil society groups. Because I am bored with making up conspiracy theories :) 
> 
> parminder 
> 
> 
> 
>
On Saturday 16 August 2014 11:23 AM, parminder wrote:
>
Tom/ All
> 
> A much bigger problem than of allocating technology provided gains between work (along with over consumption) and leisure (with more controlled consumption) is of the allocation between different groups and classes of people, and between different geo-regions. It is a completely inexcusable crime of all those who participate in the management of our societies today that even with such stupendous technology/ productivity gains, about 13 percent of the world's population still goes to bed hungry, and more than 30 percent of the children in developing countries are stunted due to malnourishment (In India, close to 40 percent). Nearly half the world's population lives on less that 2.5 dollars a day. 
> 
> "The world produces enough food to feed everyone...... the principal underlying cause of poverty and hunger is the ordinary operation of the economic and political systems in the world. Essentially control over resources and income is based on military, political and economic power that typically ends up in the hands of a minority, who live well, while those at the bottom barely survive, if they do."  http://www.worldhunger.org/articles/Learn/world%20hunger%20facts%202002.htm 
> 
> Meanwhile, wealth disparities are rising globally, at most places very rapidly. A recent report says that "the lower half of the global population possesses barely 1% of global wealth, while the richest 10% of adults own 86% of all wealth, and the top 1% account for 46% of the total. " And the concentration of wealth is worsening almost everywhere.
> 
> Nice time one would say to attempt to move the locus of global Internet governance to the World Economic Forum, that Mecca of the 1 percent, where 'they' develop blue prints for where the world should go from here. We certainly need their advice and leadership for shaping and governing the global Internet. Power on the Internet isnt already concentrated enough! 
> 
> One can only congratulate all those involved with the initiative, and those contributing to it!
> 
> Poor those who have been trying to occupy places that signified wealth concentration - the occupy movement. It appears that it is the civil society that is getting occupied in reverse. And it is running into the trap gleefully, with open arms.
> 
> parminder
> 
> 
> 
On Saturday 16 August 2014 09:11 AM, Thomas Lowenhaupt wrote:
>
Mike,
> 
> Long ago I thought this problem could be solved by reallocating resources: The availability of farm machinery has created more food than we know what to do with; and half of New York seems to be filled with storage bins filled with the abundance of manufactured goods. And I thought that people be happy to retire at 30. 
> 
> But assuming an abundance of energy and no environmental limitations, would I like a 50 year retirement? These days I seem to live for my work. If some machine takes it away, I'd be left with a diminished life. 
> 
> How important is work to most peoples lives? 
> 
> Yes, I agree with the video, and the clock seems to be ticking.
> 
> By posting on the governance list are you suggesting that Internet governance and "technology management" be combined?
> 
> Tom Lowenhaupt
> 
> 
>
On 8/15/2014 6:42 PM, michael gurstein wrote:
>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU

So what do we do?

M






>

>

>


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From gurstein at gmail.com  Mon Aug 18 19:47:53 2014
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 16:47:53 -0700
Subject: [governance] Blog (Feld): What we learn from the analysis of the
 FCC Net Neutrality Comments
Message-ID: <01a501cfbb3e$d7a56160$86f02420$@gmail.com>

1.1  million comments yield a lot of very interesting data. The most important thing we learn? People are actually thinking about this issue and getting very passionate about it.

http://www.wetmachine.com/tales-of-the-sausage-factory/what-do-we-learn-from-big-data-visualizations-of-net-neutrality-comments/

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From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de  Tue Aug 19 03:49:59 2014
From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang=22?=)
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 09:49:59 +0200
Subject: [governance] WSIS 10+
References: <044401cfb8d9$e79c7c00$b6d57400$@gmail.com>
 <044501cfb8da$2a3bb0d0$7eb31270$@gmail.com>
 <53EED2FE.5050300@communisphere.com> <53EEF1D9.3020808@itforchange.net>
 <53EF46D3.7050707@itforchange.net>
 <439225787.20590.1408400248826.JavaMail.www@wwinf1e19>
Message-ID:  <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A801642594@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>

http://www.circleid.com/posts/20140818_sailing_backwards_wsis_10_avoids_entering_unchartered_territory/

Here I have summarized my observations, remebering the "good old days". My key proposal is the formation of a multistakeholder WSIS 10+ Drafting Team which would do the main work before the intergovernmental process starts in NY. This could be launched by the Interessional Meeting of the UNCSTD in November.

Wolfgang

  

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From parminder at itforchange.net  Tue Aug 19 04:00:54 2014
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 13:30:54 +0530
Subject: [governance] Discussants for Net Neutrality main session at IGF
Message-ID: <53F30436.4060109@itforchange.net>

Dear All

Please do let know names of civil society people from developing 
countries who will be at the IGF and who could be possible discussants 
at the main session on net neutrality. The session seems dominated by 
reps of telecoms and people from developed countries. We need more 
public interest views from developing countries.  Please use discretion 
while forwarding names so that the persons we put forward will be really 
good additions to the list of discussants, and be able to forcefully 
provide progressive views from developing countries...

Thanks, parminder
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From ekenyanito at gmail.com  Tue Aug 19 04:42:12 2014
From: ekenyanito at gmail.com (Ephraim Percy Kenyanito)
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 11:42:12 +0300
Subject: [governance] Discussants for Net Neutrality main session at IGF
In-Reply-To: <53F30436.4060109@itforchange.net>
References: <53F30436.4060109@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <7E25C77C-60AD-44DE-8C89-439EEABD5DDC@gmail.com>

Hi Parminder,

I am interested in this session and would love to assist.

Ephraim Percy Kenyanito
Nairobi, Kenya 
Website: www.about.me/ekenyanito

> On 19 Aug 2014, at 11:00 AM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> wrote:
> 
> Dear All
> 
> Please do let know names of civil society people from developing countries who will be at the IGF and who could be possible discussants at the main session on net neutrality. The session seems dominated by reps of telecoms and people from developed countries. We need more public interest views from developing countries.  Please use discretion while forwarding names so that the persons we put forward will be really good additions to the list of discussants, and be able to forcefully provide progressive views from developing countries... 
> 
> Thanks, parminder
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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From chlebrum at gmail.com  Tue Aug 19 04:49:53 2014
From: chlebrum at gmail.com (chlebrum .)
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 10:49:53 +0200
Subject: [governance] Discussants for Net Neutrality main session at IGF
In-Reply-To: <53F30436.4060109@itforchange.net>
References: <53F30436.4060109@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <CANMQhZhmYmVuMz-fDRrKohNc3t7XhjhXqyiArXKU2aNh+=uJUw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Parminder,

Our colleague Djibril Sane <djisane at hotmail.com>
from Africa (Benin? Senegal?) will participe with us in the Pre-Event day
(Sept. 1st). He works on digital
literacy of local people.
Also, a Moroccan researcher Farid Toumi <ftoumi2000 at gmail.com>, a
specialist in Berber language
(very specific script).
Otherwise, there is Ms. May Abdallah, Lebanon, Beirut University, she will
talk about e-diasporas and
migrants people, also on this Pre-Event day (I share the leaflet about this
VIP).
Fill free to contact them, I do not know if they are interested in net
neutrality and whether they know what it is.

Chantal

2014-08-19 10:00 GMT+02:00 parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>:

>  Dear All
>
> Please do let know names of civil society people from developing countries
> who will be at the IGF and who could be possible discussants at the main
> session on net neutrality. The session seems dominated by reps of telecoms
> and people from developed countries. We need more public interest views
> from developing countries.  Please use discretion while forwarding names so
> that the persons we put forward will be really good additions to the list
> of discussants, and be able to forcefully provide progressive views from
> developing countries...
>
> Thanks, parminder
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
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>


-- 
Chantal Lebrument

​Courriel: lebrument at open-root.eu
Mob: +33 6 8369 5460
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From seth.p.johnson at gmail.com  Tue Aug 19 06:38:04 2014
From: seth.p.johnson at gmail.com (Seth Johnson)
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 06:38:04 -0400
Subject: [governance] WSIS 10+
In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A801642594@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
References: <044401cfb8d9$e79c7c00$b6d57400$@gmail.com> <044501cfb8da$2a3bb0d0$7eb31270$@gmail.com>
 <53EED2FE.5050300@communisphere.com> <53EEF1D9.3020808@itforchange.net>
 <53EF46D3.7050707@itforchange.net> <439225787.20590.1408400248826.JavaMail.www@wwinf1e19>
 <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A801642594@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
Message-ID: <CAJkfFBwnwrmW-bt8oA1jes0L-U9+qChsd1f_hVfSm8j4BTzy3A@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for this summary of the progression of things, Wolfgang!  My
reconstruction of things observed the UN ICT Task Force prior to the
two World Summits for the Information Society but not the processes
that arose within in greater detail.

Your account seems to me to accentuate how distinct in nature the
international arena is from more familiar contexts at national levels,
and of how little clear vision there is of how to adapt it
effectively, nor for that matter a conception on the part of
governments of how adaptations should gain sway.


Seth



On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 3:49 AM, "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang"
<wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de> wrote:
> http://www.circleid.com/posts/20140818_sailing_backwards_wsis_10_avoids_entering_unchartered_territory/
>
> Here I have summarized my observations, remebering the "good old days". My key proposal is the formation of a multistakeholder WSIS 10+ Drafting Team which would do the main work before the intergovernmental process starts in NY. This could be launched by the Interessional Meeting of the UNCSTD in November.
>
> Wolfgang
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
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>
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From subi.igp at gmail.com  Tue Aug 19 09:17:55 2014
From: subi.igp at gmail.com (Subi Chaturvedi)
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 18:47:55 +0530
Subject: [governance] Nominations invited from CS for the Closing Ceremony
 at IGF 2014
Message-ID: <CAFfuWV=WuQHkBsCH_UozWk_JGEKikujT9KwZRyDRUw1cse5hbQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear All,

Nominations have been invited by the IGF Secretariat for CS reps for the
closing ceremony at IGF ISTANBUL,  2014.

Once we arrive at some sort of consensus a couple of names can be emailed
to the secretariat at IGF at unog.ch by the co-cos. We must consolidate to
send in strong representation to articulate the varied interests and issues
that CS leads and champions globally. While there might be the thank you
speeches expressing gratitude where it is rightfully deserved this is an
opportunity we must seize.

Warmest

Subi
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From williams.deirdre at gmail.com  Tue Aug 19 09:41:03 2014
From: williams.deirdre at gmail.com (Deirdre Williams)
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 09:41:03 -0400
Subject: [governance] Opening cermony
Message-ID: <CAMz5XN7=MQWf7kpNu1oSQbzvL6-gJAgnrFPhK2a9NwMhc7u-GQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,
Yesterday I heard that I have been selected by the  MAG  to make the civil
society presentation at the opening ceremony. Please send me your
suggestions of topics for inclusion so that, as far as it's possible in
such a short time, I can say what all of us want to be said.
The IGC and Bestbits are not all of civil society;please help me to as
large a view as possible by passing on this message to others in as wide a
reach as possible.
Thank you
Deirdre Williams
Co-coordinator, IG Caucua.


-- 
“The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
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From subi.igp at gmail.com  Tue Aug 19 10:14:22 2014
From: subi.igp at gmail.com (Subi Chaturvedi)
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 19:44:22 +0530
Subject: [governance] Re: [bestbits] Opening cermony
In-Reply-To: <CAMz5XN7=MQWf7kpNu1oSQbzvL6-gJAgnrFPhK2a9NwMhc7u-GQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMz5XN7=MQWf7kpNu1oSQbzvL6-gJAgnrFPhK2a9NwMhc7u-GQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFfuWVmrYdbx14dg8pU-cv_7NtGuR37nzDFABt4AAxTqz1kuEA@mail.gmail.com>

Many thanks for sharing Deirdre. Delighted and proud.

From this part of the world (India) some points for your consideration

- increasingly global world leaders are telling women to stay in their
place, we would like to give a shout out to all the women and girls in tech
journalists and online media practioners too that internet is indeed their
rightful place and we will do all, to enable and celebrate their role in
#netgov
2. Focus on the quality and not just quantity in representational terms of
CS actors in net gov and also highlight the role that the net is playing in
bridging gaps in governance and improving democracies
3. Funding-Despite confirmed invites even on Mains many CS participants
struggled and unfortunately will not join us in person this year. We need
to find sustainable solutions.
4. Responding to Netmundial and articulating our support for perpetuity and
continuity of IGF with a mandate beyond 2015 hopefully until 2025 if not
2050 :)
5. Access -connecting the unconnected bringing the next billion online
6. Human rights and free speech. GOVERNMENTS must engage with new media and
not clamp down/fear the medium if they do not understand it. Help is just
around the corner. We welcome them at IGF and would like to see more of
them at the table especially from developing countries, emerging economies
and small island nations.

Thank you for your consideration. And many congratulations.  We have an
excellent amplifier and integrator, in you.

Warmest

Subi Chaturvedi

On 19 Aug 2014 19:11, "Deirdre Williams" <williams.deirdre at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Colleagues,
> Yesterday I heard that I have been selected by the  MAG  to make the
civil society presentation at the opening ceremony. Please send me your
suggestions of topics for inclusion so that, as far as it's possible in
such a short time, I can say what all of us want to be said.
> The IGC and Bestbits are not all of civil society;please help me to as
large a view as possible by passing on this message to others in as wide a
reach as possible.
> Thank you
> Deirdre Williams
> Co-coordinator, IG Caucua.
>
>
> --
> “The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      bestbits at lists.bestbits.net.
> To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:
>      http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits
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From subi.igp at gmail.com  Tue Aug 19 10:26:07 2014
From: subi.igp at gmail.com (Subi Chaturvedi)
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 19:56:07 +0530
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [IGFmaglist] Invitation to High Level Leaders
 Meeting on 1 September 2014
In-Reply-To: <CAMc__opsxrVAawD9vJaVyMxG9sc6cU-gLTK8gWip+3Q7h7JA4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1090E9E9E3CD4143B984C488E07FDABC0ABBBA4E@EXCSRV2.tk.local>
	<CA+YNoKiMN5wpfeve2kCTr=mMqO9g8vjTJQyQc+hBS0p2xbCUgQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJwbTiBCsTw3Ryi3mXqMviQuP2XsrkDPxri4agTeZD2fqZ9h_A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMc__opsxrVAawD9vJaVyMxG9sc6cU-gLTK8gWip+3Q7h7JA4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFfuWVkeHyYDAE1DwTYwzLM_bT2+Jev9MeW+Knp_QL-AToKM0Q@mail.gmail.com>

While the decision lies with the our hosts it has always been suggested
that the High Level Ministerial remain open, multi-stakeholder and
inclusive. In Bali we had an excellent example with a full room and active
participation from the floor as well. It is a pool to find governments all
under one roof and most reps make themselves available for this session.
While they travel out by the end of Day 2 mostly.  So listen to us they
must.

In Jovan we have an experienced and excellent contributor.

The stakeholder balance however has room for improvement.  This was raised
again today and a request to relook at the "draft -agenda" for the HLM" has
been tabled for our gracious and generous hosts to consider from CS. I'd
like to see more of us in the room speaking truth to power.

Regards

Subi Chaturvedi

On 6 Aug 2014 02:45, "Remmy Nweke" <remmyn at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I think Sala was right
> Izumi, Kindly attend and be our eyes on he high-level session.
> Remmy
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 9:27 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <
salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Precisely because there are very few CS people there is the reason you
need to be there and report back on developments.
>>
>> Let us know and be our eyes and ears.
>>
>> Many thanks,
>> Sala
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 7:14 PM, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Being a Civil Society MAG member, I just received the following
invitation to High Level Leaders Meeting on Sep. 1
>>>
>>> To be honest, I have some ambiguous feeling about this. Having looked
at the list of invited speakers, I see very few Civil Society
people/organizations. There is no good balance.
>>>
>>> Not knowing how the selection made, maybe some well-respected CS people
might have declined to be there, with schedule conflict with other events,
or with some reservation etc.
>>> I honestly don't know.
>>>
>>> Just sitting there and listening to all speeches don't make sense, on
the one hand.
>>> On the other, I don't want to see this meeting with much fewer
participants from the civil society.
>>>
>>> Just sharing my feeling and thought now.
>>>
>>> Will decide after hearing from you guys ;-).
>>>
>>> many thanks,
>>>
>>> izumi
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Aysel KANDEMİR <akandemir at btk.gov.tr>
>>> Date: 2014-08-04 23:21 GMT+09:00
>>> Subject: [IGFmaglist] Invitation to High Level Leaders Meeting on 1
September 2014
>>> To: "Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org" <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>
>>> Cc: Ahmet ÇAVUŞOĞLU <acavusoglu at btk.gov.tr>
>>>
>>> Dear MAG members,
>>>
>>> Enclosed is the invitation letter of Dr. Tayfun ACARER, Chairman of the
Board and President of ICTA to the “High Level Leaders Meeting” to be held
on 1 September 2014 prior to IGF 2014. Draft programme of High Level
Leaders Meeting is enclosed to this letter. Indeed, you may already
received invitation letter prepared for your name already. To ensure it is
well received by all MAG members, we are also sending the invitation
through this e-mail.
>>>
>>> We would be very pleased with your attendance at the High Level Leaders
Meeting.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You are kindly requested to furnish us with your confirmation of
participation by 11 August 2014.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Aysel Kandemir
>>>
>>> ICTA, Turkey
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Igfmaglist mailing list
>>> Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org
>>> http://mail.intgovforum.org/mailman/listinfo/igfmaglist_intgovforum.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
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>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
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>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> ____
> REMMY NWEKE,
> Lead Strategist/Group Executive Editor,
> DigitalSENSE Africa Media Ltd
> (publishers of) DigitalSENSE Business News;
> ITREALMS, NaijaAgroNet
> (Multiple-award winning medium)
> Published by: DigitalSENSE Africa Media Ltd
> Block F1, Shop 133 Moyosore Aboderin Plaza
> Bolade Junction, Oshodi-Lagos
> M: 234-8033592762, 8023122558, 8051000475,
> T: @ITRealms
> [Member, NIRA Executive Board]
> Author: A Decade of ICT Reportage in Nigeria
> NDS Forum on Internet Governance for Development (IG4D) 2014<
http://www.digitalsenseafrica.com.ng>- June 5
> Nigeria IPv6 Roundtable 2014 <http://www.ipv6forumnigeria.ng> - June 6
> @Welcome Centre Hotels. Register now. Email: remnekkv at gmail.com
> _____________________________________________________________________
> *Confidentiality Notice:* The information in this document and
attachments
> are confidential and may also be privileged information. It is intended
> only for the use of the named recipient. Remmy Nweke does not accept
legal
> responsibility for the contents of this e-mail. If you are not the
intended
> recipient, please notify me immediately, then delete this document and do
> not disclose the contents of this document to any other person, nor make
> any copies. Violators may face court persecution.
>
> ____________________________________________________________
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>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
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>
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From williams.deirdre at gmail.com  Tue Aug 19 12:35:19 2014
From: williams.deirdre at gmail.com (Deirdre Williams)
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 12:35:19 -0400
Subject: [governance] IGC Housekeeping
Message-ID: <CAMz5XN6u7G=2p1BjUZMk+F30waMH2RKEAUU6En1D1JEbO9PX8w@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,
Last year's Civil Society Coordination Group is being revitalised, and
there is a call for nominations for the non-voting Chair.
The IGC representative is Mawaki, and the current composition of the group
is:

Chat Garcia Ramilo - APC
Ian Peter - independent chair
Jeremy Malcolm - Best Bits
Mawaki Chango - IGC
Robin Gross - ICANN NCSG
Virginia Paque - Diplo Foundation
Mandeep Tiwana - Civicus*
Norbert Bollow - Just Net Coalition*

* added in 2014

Please indicate who you would like to nominate.

Arrangements are being made for a room for an IGC face to face meeting at
the IGF. Meanwhile please make suggestions for the agenda.

So far we have:
the discussion of a way forward for the IGC (being led by Mawaki).

Other issues like the IGC perspective on what multi-stakeholderism  means
to us,and finding a common position on the NETmundial/WEF initiative (that
launch comes before the IGF begins) are probably beyond the scope of the
meeting
As usual there will be only a short time available for the meeting, and of
course only a few of us will be able to be present.

Looking forward to your suggestions
Best wishes
Mawaki Chango, Deirdre Williams
Co- coordinators, IGC

-- 
“The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
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From vanda at uol.com.br  Tue Aug 19 12:56:32 2014
From: vanda at uol.com.br (Vanda Scartezini)
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 13:56:32 -0300
Subject: [governance] Opening cermony
In-Reply-To: <CAMz5XN7=MQWf7kpNu1oSQbzvL6-gJAgnrFPhK2a9NwMhc7u-GQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMz5XN7=MQWf7kpNu1oSQbzvL6-gJAgnrFPhK2a9NwMhc7u-GQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D0190760.4911C%vanda@uol.com.br>

First of all Congratulations! This makes me feel comfortable that will be
wonderfully represented!!
 I believe the topics we all have in minds a key points are: enlarge
participation, transparency, respect to human rights.
 Kisses 
Vanda Scartezini
Polo Consultores Associados
Av. Paulista 1159, cj 1004
01311-200- Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil
Land Line: +55 11 3266.6253
Mobile: + 55 11 98181.1464




From:  "williams.deirdre at gmail.com" <williams.deirdre at gmail.com>
Reply-To:  "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>,
"williams.deirdre at gmail.com" <williams.deirdre at gmail.com>
Date:  Tuesday, August 19, 2014 at 10:41
To:  "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>,
"bestbits at lists.bestbits.net" <bestbits at lists.bestbits.net>
Subject:  [governance] Opening cermony

Dear Colleagues,
Yesterday I heard that I have been selected by the  MAG  to make the civil
society presentation at the opening ceremony. Please send me your
suggestions of topics for inclusion so that, as far as it's possible in such
a short time, I can say what all of us want to be said.
The IGC and Bestbits are not all of civil society;please help me to as large
a view as possible by passing on this message to others in as wide a reach
as possible.
Thank you
Deirdre Williams
Co-coordinator, IG Caucua.


-- 
³The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
____________________________________________________________ You received
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From gurstein at gmail.com  Tue Aug 19 13:21:16 2014
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 10:21:16 -0700
Subject: [governance] Geist Blog: Government Control Over Internet
 Governance: Proposal Would Give the GAC Increased Power over ICANN Board
 Decisions
Message-ID: <063101cfbbd2$05095e20$0f1c1a60$@gmail.com>

Government Control Over Internet Governance: Proposal Would Give the GAC Increased Power over ICANN Board Decisions

By Michael Geist

Aug 18 2014

<http://www.michaelgeist.ca/2014/08/government-control-internet-governance-icann-proposes-giving-gac-increased-power-board-decisions/>

The debate over Internet governance for much of the past decade has often come down to a battle between  <http://www.circleid.com/posts/the_geo_politics_of_icann_vs_itu/> ICANN and the ITU (a UN body), which in turn is characterized as a choice between a private-sector led, bottoms-up, consensus model (ICANN) or a governmental-controlled approach. The reality has always been far more complicated. The U.S. still maintains  <http://www.michaelgeist.ca/2014/03/us-gov-on-iana-2/> contractual control over ICANN, while all governments exert considerable power within the ICANN model through the  <https://gacweb.icann.org/display/gacweb/Governmental+Advisory+Committee> Governmental Advisory Committee (GAC).

While the GAC claims its role is merely to provide “advice” to ICANN, it often seems to take the view that its suggestions can’t be refused. Indeed, late on Friday, ICANN  <https://www.icann.org/public-comments/bylaws-amend-gac-advice-2014-08-15-en> proposed a by-law change that would grant governments even greater control over its decision-making process. At the moment, ICANN looks to various supporting organizations to develop policies designed to represent the views of many different stakeholders, including the GAC. Where the GAC and the ICANN board disagree on a policy issue, the ICANN board decision governs provided that a simple majority of board members vote against the GAC advice and that ICANN provide an explanation for the decision.

ICANN is now proposing that the threshold be increased so that 2/3 of eligible ICANN board members would be required to vote against GAC advice in order to reject it. The by-law change  <https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/proposed-revisions-gac-advice-15aug14-en.pdf> states:

A final decision by the ICANN Board to not follow the advice of the Governmental Advisory Committee must be supported by a two-thirds vote of all members of the Board that are eligible to vote on the matter.

The increased threshold would grant governments enormous power over ICANN, coming close to an effective veto over decisions based on broad consultations and participation from around the world. With the GAC intervening with increasing frequency (particularly on  <http://domainincite.com/16969-gac-rejects-multistakeholderism-tells-icann-to-ignore-the-gnso> new generic TLD issues), ICANN has  <http://www.worldipreview.com/news/gac-advice-on-gtlds-not-binding-icann> maintained that it is not required to follow the governmental advice. That is technically true, but the proposed by-law chance would make it exceptionally difficult to overcome government demands. In effect, governments would be given near-complete veto power over ICANN board decisions. The  <https://www.icann.org/public-comments/bylaws-amend-gac-advice-2014-08-15-en> comment period on the proposal is open until September 14, 2014.

 


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From ivissioninternational at yahoo.fr  Tue Aug 19 15:06:30 2014
From: ivissioninternational at yahoo.fr (International Ivission)
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 20:06:30 +0100
Subject: [governance] Discussants for Net Neutrality main session at
 IGF
In-Reply-To: <53F30436.4060109@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <1408475190.85486.YahooMailBasic@web172106.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>


I am working on a project to promote net neutrality in Cameroon through  multi stakeholder capacity building and dialogue (www.netnogcm.net) funded by the Web We Want Campaign. We have gathered alot of experience in the field which I will surely want to share in any session.

Kind regards,
___________________________________
Asama Abel Excel
President and CEO
I-VISSION INTERNATIONAL

3rd Floor immeuble Centre Médical de Bessengué
 Box 13040 Blvd de la rep., Feu Rouge Bessengué
Douala Cameroon
 E: ivissioninternational at yahoo.fr / excelasama at yahoo.fr : info at ivission.net
 T (bur): +237 33 76 55 76  (Mob): 99 44 43 91 / 76 14 26 23Skype (office): i-vission (personal): excelasama, My blog
Web: www.ivission.net 
 Web album: www.flickr.com/ivission
 Facebook: ivission.internationl
Twitter: www.twitter.com/ivission 
 NWK: www.meetup.com/ivission


--------------------------------------------
En date de : Mar 19.8.14, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> a écrit :

 Objet: [governance] Discussants for Net Neutrality main session at IGF
 À: "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
 Date: Mardi 19 août 2014, 10h00
 
 
   
 
     
   
   
     Dear All
 
       
 
       Please do let know names of civil society people from
 developing
       countries who will be at the IGF and who could be
 possible
       discussants at the main session on net neutrality. The
 session
       seems dominated by reps of telecoms and people from
 developed
       countries. We need more public interest views from
 developing
       countries.  Please use discretion while forwarding
 names so that
       the persons we put forward will be really good
 additions to the
       list of discussants, and be able to forcefully provide
 progressive
       views from developing countries... 
 
       
 
       Thanks, parminder
 
     
   
 
 
 -----La pièce jointe associée suit-----
 
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From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com  Tue Aug 19 15:16:54 2014
From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 07:16:54 +1200
Subject: [governance] Opening cermony
In-Reply-To: <CAMz5XN7=MQWf7kpNu1oSQbzvL6-gJAgnrFPhK2a9NwMhc7u-GQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMz5XN7=MQWf7kpNu1oSQbzvL6-gJAgnrFPhK2a9NwMhc7u-GQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0549A46E-877D-44AF-B0BD-B2E5D16D8F75@gmail.com>

Fantastic to hear, De, will send you some notes soon.

Sent from my iPad

> On Aug 20, 2014, at 1:41 AM, Deirdre Williams <williams.deirdre at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear Colleagues,
> Yesterday I heard that I have been selected by the  MAG  to make the civil society presentation at the opening ceremony. Please send me your suggestions of topics for inclusion so that, as far as it's possible in such a short time, I can say what all of us want to be said.
> The IGC and Bestbits are not all of civil society;please help me to as large a view as possible by passing on this message to others in as wide a reach as possible.
> Thank you
> Deirdre Williams
> Co-coordinator, IG Caucua.
> 
> 
> -- 
> “The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
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>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
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From nnenna75 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 19 17:49:01 2014
From: nnenna75 at gmail.com (Nnenna Nwakanma)
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 21:49:01 +0000
Subject: [governance] Opening cermony
In-Reply-To: <0549A46E-877D-44AF-B0BD-B2E5D16D8F75@gmail.com>
References: <CAMz5XN7=MQWf7kpNu1oSQbzvL6-gJAgnrFPhK2a9NwMhc7u-GQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <0549A46E-877D-44AF-B0BD-B2E5D16D8F75@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADFgh13BbPAQjQK7k0OTvrxh9Nrh9c60T-8f5LAi0QzUS=m5WQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi De

So I am smiling, hoping you will be funded, one way or the other. Is that
correct?

   1. Since you are from the Islands, you need to raise the challenges that
   affect you.
   2. Respect of Human Rights is still tops on our principles. This is
   going down.. in many countries and we need to shout it out..
   3. + 1 on Affordability
   4. There are bloggers in jail. Ethiopia is a huge case in question.
   5. Do you want to throw out a challenge to countries who want to be
   brave enough, like Brazil to adopt a bill of rights?
   6. At the Web We Want, we are throwing open the idea of  an Internet
   "Magna Carta"..

All for now


Nnenna


On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 7:16 PM, Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro <
salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote:

> Fantastic to hear, De, will send you some notes soon.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Aug 20, 2014, at 1:41 AM, Deirdre Williams <williams.deirdre at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Dear Colleagues,
> Yesterday I heard that I have been selected by the  MAG  to make the
> civil society presentation at the opening ceremony. Please send me your
> suggestions of topics for inclusion so that, as far as it's possible in
> such a short time, I can say what all of us want to be said.
> The IGC and Bestbits are not all of civil society;please help me to as
> large a view as possible by passing on this message to others in as wide a
> reach as possible.
> Thank you
> Deirdre Williams
> Co-coordinator, IG Caucua.
>
>
> --
> “The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
> Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
>
> ____________________________________________________________
>
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
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>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
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From mueller at syr.edu  Tue Aug 19 20:37:37 2014
From: mueller at syr.edu (Milton L Mueller)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 00:37:37 +0000
Subject: [governance] RE: WSIS 10+
In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A801642594@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
References: <044401cfb8d9$e79c7c00$b6d57400$@gmail.com>
 <044501cfb8da$2a3bb0d0$7eb31270$@gmail.com>
 <53EED2FE.5050300@communisphere.com> <53EEF1D9.3020808@itforchange.net>
 <53EF46D3.7050707@itforchange.net>
 <439225787.20590.1408400248826.JavaMail.www@wwinf1e19>
 <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A801642594@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
Message-ID: <e8057e486b514aecb974e2ef6039e90f@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>

Great post, Wolfgang! 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-
> request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang"
> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 3:50 AM
> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Jean-Louis FULLSACK;
> governance at lists.igcaucus.org; parminder
> Subject: [governance] WSIS 10+
> 
> http://www.circleid.com/posts/20140818_sailing_backwards_wsis_10_avoids_
> entering_unchartered_territory/
> 
> Here I have summarized my observations, remebering the "good old days". My
> key proposal is the formation of a multistakeholder WSIS 10+ Drafting Team
> which would do the main work before the intergovernmental process starts in
> NY. This could be launched by the Interessional Meeting of the UNCSTD in
> November.
> 
> Wolfgang
> 
> 


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From suresh at hserus.net  Tue Aug 19 21:37:18 2014
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 07:07:18 +0530
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [IP] Next on the road -- Istanbul  30 Auguest to
 6 September
In-Reply-To: <E31EB5A7-C513-46E5-8C1E-BB8AB660F209@gmail.com>
References: <E31EB5A7-C513-46E5-8C1E-BB8AB660F209@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <147f10f94e0.27e9.4f968dcf8ecd56c9cb8acab6370fcfe0@hserus.net>

Looks like a great opportunity.


--- Forwarded message ---
From: "David Farber via ip" <ip at listbox.com>
Date: 20 August 2014 6:34:01 am
Subject: [IP] Next on the road -- Istanbul  30 Auguest to 6 September
To: "ip" <ip at listbox.com>

I will be attending the  Internet Governance Forum (IGF) and staying the 
the Intercontinentalk. Any IPers for coffee, touring etc, yell

Dave

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From pouzin at well.com  Wed Aug 20 04:51:28 2014
From: pouzin at well.com (Louis Pouzin (well))
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 10:51:28 +0200
Subject: [governance] Geist Blog: Government Control Over Internet
 Governance: Proposal Would Give the GAC Increased Power over ICANN Board
 Decisions
In-Reply-To: <063101cfbbd2$05095e20$0f1c1a60$@gmail.com>
References: <063101cfbbd2$05095e20$0f1c1a60$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+EjHYqjXZnX6aPpDPZ39NZ85uEZrFJWm_Y3SvUfuaa4m7q00A@mail.gmail.com>

To sum up, the board would need 2/3 of its votes to ignore GAC positions.
No big deal. It's still unilateral dominance.

Louis
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From fulvio.frati at unimi.it  Wed Aug 20 06:30:41 2014
From: fulvio.frati at unimi.it (Fulvio Frati)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 12:30:41 +0200
Subject: [governance] CFP: Fourth International Symposium on Data-driven
 Process Discovery and Analysis
Message-ID: <00bd01cfbc61$ca7f1750$5f7d45f0$@unimi.it>

[Apologies if you receives multiple copies of this CFP]

############################################################################

Fourth International Symposium on Data-driven Process Discovery and Analysis

################################ SIMPDA 2014 ###############################

- http://simpda2014.di.unimi.it/

- IFIP Working Groups 2.6 and 2.12/12.4 - 

- Milano, Italy, November 19th-21th -

# About SIMPDA #

With the increasing automation of business processes, growing amounts of
process data become available. This opens new research opportunities for
business process data 

analysis, mining and modeling. The aim of the IFIP 2.6 - 2.12 International
Symposium on Data-Driven Process Discovery and Analysis is to offer a forum
where researchers 

from different communities and the industry can share their insight in this
hot new field.

The Symposium will feature a number of keynotes illustrating advanced
approaches, shorter presentations on recent research, a competitive PhD
seminar and selected 

research and industrial demonstrations. This year the symposium will be held
in Milan, the city of Expo 2015.

        

# Call for Papers #

The IFIP International Symposium on Data-Driven Process Discovery and
Analysis (SIMPDA 2013) offers a unique opportunity to present new approaches
and research results 

to researchers and practitioners working in business process data modeling,
representation and privacy-aware analysis. 

The symposium will bring together leading researchers, engineers and
scientists from around the world. Full papers must not exceed 15 pages.
Short papers are limited to 

at most 4 pages. All papers must be original contributions, not previously
published or under review for publication elsewhere. All contributions must
be written in 

English and must follow the LNCS Springer Verlag format. Templates can be
downloaded from: http://www.springer.de/comp/lncs/authors.html

Accepted papers will be published in a pre-proceeding volume with an ISBN.
The authors of the accepted papers will be invited to submit extended
articles to a 

post-symposium proceedings volume which will be published in the LNBIP
series (Lecture Notes in Business Information Processing,
http://www.springer.com/series/7911), 

scheduled for early 2014 (extended papers length will be between 7000 and
9000 words). Around 10-15 papers will be selected for publication after a
second round of review.

– Topics –

Topics of interest for submission include, but are not limited to:

- Business Process modeling languages, notations and methods

- Data-aware and data-centric approaches 

- Variability and configuration of process models

- Process Mining with Big Data 

- Process simulation and static analyses

- Process data query languages

- Process data mining

- Privacy-aware process data mining

- Process metadata and semantic reasoning

- Process patterns and standards

- Foundations of business process models

- Resource management in business process execution

- Process tracing and monitoring

- Process change management and evolution

- Business process lifecycle

- Case studies and experience reports 

- Social process discovery

- Crowdsourced process definition and discovery

– Workshop Format –

In accordance to our historical tradition of proposing SIMPDA as a
symposium, we propose an innovative format for this workshop:

The number of sessions depend on the number of submissions but, considering
the previous editions, we envisage to have four sessions, with 4-5 related
papers assigned to

each session. A special session (with a specific review process) will be
dedicated to discuss research plan from PhD students.

Papers are pre-circulated to the authors that will be expected to read all
papers in advance but to avoid exceptional overhead, two are assigned to be
prepared with 

particular care,  making ready comments and suggestions. 

The bulk of the time during each session will be dedicated to open
conversations about all of the papers in a given session, along with any
linkages to the papers and

discussions within an earlier session. 

The closing session (30 minutes), will include a panel about open challenges
during which every participant will be asked to assemble their
thoughts/project

ideas/goals/etc
 that they got out of the workshop.

# Call for PhD Research Plans #

The SIMPDA PhD Seminar is a workshop for Ph.D. students from all over the
world. The goal of the Seminar is to help students with their thesis and
research plans by 

providing feedback and general advice on how to use their research results.

Students interested in participating in the Seminar should submit an
extended abstract describing their research. Submissions can relate to any
aspect of Process Data:

technical advances, usage and impact studies, policy analyses, social and
institutional implications, theoretical contributions, interaction and
design advances,

innovative applications, and social implications.

Research plans should be at most of 4 page long and should be organized
following the following structure: 

Abstract: summarizes, in 5 line, the research aims and significance.

Research Question: defines what will be accomplished by eliciting the
relevant the research questions.

Background: defines the background knowledge providing the 5 most relevant
references (papers or books).

Significance: explains the relevance of the general topic and of the
specific contribution.

Research design and methods: describes and motivates the method adopted
focusing on: assumptions, solutions, data sources, validation of results,
limitations of the approach.

Research stage: describes what the student has done so far.

- SIMPDA PhD award -

A doctoral award will be given by the SIMPDA PhD Jury to the best research
plan submitted.

Student Scholarships

An application for a limited number of scholarships aimed at students coming
from emerging countries has been submitted to IFIP.

In order to apply, please contact paolo.ceravolo at unimi.it

# Keynote Speakers #

Jorge Cardoso

University of Coimbra, Portugal

- Compliance of Business Processes with Reference Models -

Reference models provide best practices to design effective and efficient
business processes. However, a main challenge is to evaluate how these best
practices are

implemented. One limitation of existing approaches is the assumption that
compliance can be determined using the notion of process equivalence.
Nonetheless, the use of 

 equivalence algorithms is not suitable since two models can have different
structures but one process can still be compliant with the other. This talk
presents an 

 approach to measure the compliance of process models with reference models,
which was used by a German passenger airline using IT Infrastructure Library
(ITIL)

reference models. The talk also covers various initiatives to evaluate the
quality and understandability of process models.

 

# Industrial Talks #

 

Claudia Sebastiani

Creativi Quadrati, Partner openERP

 

- Business Process Measurement in small enterprises after the installation
of an ERP software -

We report the observation of the first six months of operation after the
installation of an ERP software in a group of small Italian enterprises
(some dealers of various

products and one manufacturer). Before the ERP, no explicit process
descriptions existed within the companies: the operations were manually
performed, using office

automation software or legacy programs that were not process oriented. The
new ERP is equipped with a workflow engine, a number of standard processes
that should be 

 followed by the users, and a tracking system that logs the main steps of
the processes. We use process mining tools to analyze the events logged by
the ERP during the

sales, the purchases and the manufacture cycles. Our aim is to 1) compare
the ideal processes suggested by the ERP with the real paths followed by the
users 2) describe 

 the eventual adaptation of these paths, as the users became acquainted with
the ERP 3) highlight critical segments in terms of time spent, iterations,
etc. 4) compare

the processes of different companies that are in similar business areas. The
final goal is to get a better understanding of the processes and a
rationalization of the

operations. It must be stressed that both the ERP and the main tools used
are open source, so that the process measurement is affordable even for very
small (micro) 

 enterprises.

 

Gregorio Piccoli

Zucchetti

 

- Hierarchical clustering for managers -

Data Mining and Process Mining over big amount of data are today more and
more requested by companies. However managers do not have the necessary
competences for handling the results of analysis ran using these techniques.
For this reason data visualization is a key element to exploit the full
potential of data analysis. Zucchetti spa has developed an in-house approach
for constructing user-friendly data visualizers.

 

Gabriele Ruffati

Engineering Ingegneria Informatica

 

- A living story: measuring quality of developments in a large industrial
software factory with Open Source Software -

Open Source has no more intrinsic value per se. Nowadays it is facing new
challenges, such as stimulating creativity and bringing innovation into
market. One of its

major challenges consists in delivering valuable outcomes, which requires a
PMAI approach: Plan metrics and dimensions of analysis, get Measures and
global performance

value from data, Assess results and Improve processes by solving issues and
removing bottlenecks. Engineering Group uses Open Source Software to makes
this happen.

Spago4Q, the analytic of the business intelligence suite SpagoBI, allows the
company to measure the quality of products, processes and services and to
monitor the 

 continuous improvement of quality practices. The measurement and
enhancement of productivity complies with quality certifications such as ISO
and CMMi standards. QESTnd

- an n-dimensional measurement model - allows to collect performance values
on three dimensions of analysis (Economical, Social and Technical) in order
to identify

process areas that need improvements. Drill-down capabilities provide both a
unified view of the global performance of the Labs and detailed views of the
single process

dimensions.

 

# Organizers #

CHAIRS 

- Rafael Accorsi, University of Freiburg, Germany

- Paolo Ceravolo, Università degli Studi di Milano, Italy

- Barbara Russo, Free University of Bozen - Bolzano, Italy

ADVISORY BOARD 

- Karl Aberer, EPFL, Switzerland

- Ernesto Damiani, Università degli Studi di Milano, Italy

- Tharam Dillon, La Trobe University, Australia

- Dragan Gasevic, Athabasca University, Canada

- Erich Neuhold, University of Vienna, Austria

- Maurice van Keulen, University of Twente, The Netherlands

- Philippe Cudré-Mauroux , University of Fribourg, Switzerland

# Important Dates #

- Submission of Full Papers: September 15th 2014

- Submission of PhD Research Plans: September 15th 2014

- Notification of Acceptance: October 15th 2014

- Submission of Camera Ready Papers: November 10th 2014

 

# Program Committee #

- Irene Vanderfeesten, Eindhoven University of Technology, The Netherlands

- Maurice van Keulen, University of Twente, The Netherlands

- Manfred Reichert, University of Ulm, Germany

- Schahram         Dustdar, Vienna University of Technology, Austria

- Mohamed Mosbah, University of Bordeaux, France

- Meiko Jensen, Ruhr-Uni­ver­si­ty Bo­chum, Germany

- Helen Balinsky, Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, UK

- Valentina Emilia Balas, University of Arad, Romania

- Karima               Boudaoud, Ecole Polytechnique de Nice Sophia
Antipolis, France

- George Spanoudakis, City University London, UK

- Richard Chbeir, University of Bourgogne, France

- Gregorio Martinez Perez, University of Murcia, Spain

- Ebrahim Bagheri, Ryerson University, Canada

- Jan Mendling, Vienna University of Economics and Business, Austria

- Farookh Hussain, University of Technology Sydney, Australia

- Marcello Leida,              EBTIC (Etisalat BT Innovation Centre), UAE

- Wil Van der Aalst, Technische Universiteit Eindhoven, The Netherlands

- Ronald Maier, University of Innsbruck, Austria

- Chintan             Amrit, University of Twente, The Netherlands

- Marco Montali, Free Unviersity of Bozen - Bolzano, Italy

- Elizabeth Chang, University New South Wales, Australia

- Peter Spyns, Flemish Government, Belgium

- Angelo Corallo, University of Salento, Italy

- Antonio Maña Gómez, University of Málaga, Spain

- Mustafa Jarrar, Birzeit University, Palestinian Territory

- Isabella Seeber, University of Innsbruck, Austria

- Chi Hung, Tsinghua University, China

- Alessandra Toninelli, Engineering Group, Italy

- Haris Mouratidis, University of Brighton, UK

- Abder Koukam, University of Technology, UTBM France

- Fabrizio Maria Maggi, University of Tartu, Estonia

- Massimiliano  De Leoni, Eindhoven TU, Netherlands

- Edgar Weippl, TU Vienna, Austria

- Pnina Soffer, University of Haifa, Israel

- Jianmin Wang, Tsinghua University Beijing, China

- Minseok Song, UNIST, South Korea

- Roland Rieke, Fraunhofer SIT, Germany

- Josep Carmona, UPC - Barcelona, Spain

- Mark Strembeck, WU Vienna, Austria

- Matthias Weidlich, Imperial College, UK

- Mohamed Mosbah, University of Bordeaux

- Maria Leitner, University of Vienna, Austria

- Benoit Depaire, University of Hasselt, Belgium

- Barbara Weber,            University of Innsbruck, Austria

- Babiga               Birregah, University of Technology of Troyes, France

# Historical Information on Previous Editions #

SIMPDA was proposed in 2011 and 2012 by IFIP WG 2.6 and 2.12/12.4 as the
International Symposium on Data-Driven Process Discovery and Analysis. 

The symposium had around 30 attendees in 2011 and 20 in 2012. It featured a
number of keynotes illustrating new approaches, shorter presentations on
recent research, and

a competitive PhD seminar, together with selected research and industrial
demonstrations. The authors of the accepted papers have been invited to
submit extended 

 articles to a post-symposium proceedings volume published in the Springer
LNBIP series.

Several events and activities arose off these symposia, among the most
notables we have two Dagstuhl seminars: 

Dagstuhl Seminar on Semantic Challenges in Sensor Networks, January 24-29,
2010.

Dagstuhl Seminar on Unleashing Operational Process Mining, November 24-29,
2010. 

The venue was for both editions Campione d’Italia, the Italian enclave
surrounded by Swiss territory, on the shores of Lake Lugano.

    

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From williams.deirdre at gmail.com  Wed Aug 20 09:48:43 2014
From: williams.deirdre at gmail.com (Deirdre Williams)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 09:48:43 -0400
Subject: [governance] Closing ceremony - CS speaker - URGENT
Message-ID: <CAMz5XN5yzE0i7s=L=-Ye3_eoWj8+EhSVuEV4srqzqbs_Yzusfw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,
This is a reminder about the message from Subi yesterday morning.

"Nominations have been invited by the IGF Secretariat for CS reps for the
closing ceremony at IGF ISTANBUL,  2014."

Please make your suggestions to the list; nominees should be people who
will be physically present in Istanbul and willing to accept nomination.

If you wish to make a nomination please do so within the next 24 hours.

Thank you

Mawaki Chango, Deirdre Williams
Co-coordinators

-- 
“The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
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From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com  Wed Aug 20 15:14:56 2014
From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro)
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 07:14:56 +1200
Subject: [governance] Foley and Internet Governance
Message-ID: <EBFBF3F1-7D18-4683-A15A-89353B2E87AB@gmail.com>

Dear All,

The world seems to be going mad with news of  beheading and Ukrainian plane being shot down all in several hours time.

Jim Foley a Journalist who brought to light a lot of atrocities and his beheading marks the escalation of insanity when ISIS fanatic beheads him in a message to Obama.

YouTube and Twitter have taken down aspects of the beheading so as to not give credence to terrorists. Some are demanding on Twitter that this is a breach of rights to access.

However, when terrorists want to invoke fear and spread their message of "hate" it becomes linked to "hate speech" which is an exception under Article 19 of the ICCPR and by right should be removed. Also out of sensitivity to the Foley family, we don't want the video becoming viral....

Really sad day. #worldgoingmad

Sala

Sent from my iPad
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From joly at punkcast.com  Wed Aug 20 16:32:47 2014
From: joly at punkcast.com (Joly MacFie)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 16:32:47 -0400
Subject: [governance] =?UTF-8?Q?WEBINAR_MONDAY=3A_Vint_Cerf_=E2=80=9CInter?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?net_2025=3A_Can_We_Keep_It_Open_and_Evolving=3F=E2=80=9D?=
Message-ID: <CAM9VJk345vCZxhKkiBSR5G9V4COtG8av1ZG1MJKeyuMt79=wFg@mail.gmail.com>

As those of you who tuned in to the ISOC-NY remote breakout
<http://new.livestream.com/internetsociety3/igf-usa-2014/videos/56760981>
at IGF-USA will well know Dave Burstein does not pull his punches when it
comes to Internet Governance. We can expect him to take Vint fully to task,
so this should be a very interesting and entertaining session. Feel free to
submit your own questions. As noted we will also be webcasting the full
Marconi Symposium on Oct 2. Save the date!

 joly posted: "On Monday August 25 2014 the Marconi Society will present a
webinar "Internet 2025: Can We Keep It Open and Evolving?" with Vint Cerf.
“Internet 2025” will be moderated by ISOC-NY member Dave Burstein. Advance
questions may be sent to info at marconisociety."

[image: The Marconi Society] <http://www.marconisociety.org>On *Monday
August 25 2014* the Marconi Society <http://www.marconisociety.org> will
present a webinar "*Internet 2025: Can We Keep It Open and Evolving?*
<http://www.marconisociety.org/press/2014Cerfwebinar.html>" with *Vint Cerf*.
“Internet 2025” will be moderated by ISOC-NY member *Dave Burstein*.
Advance questions may be sent to info at marconisociety.org
<info at marconisociety?subject=Webinar%20Question>. Put “Webinar question” in
the subject line. This webinar serves as a prologue for the *Marconi
Society Symposium* <http://marconisociety.org/Symposium2014.html> on *October
2 2014* which will be webcast live on the *Internet Society's livestream
channel* <http://new.livestream.com/internetsociety>.

*What*: VintCerf “Internet 2025: Can We Keep It Open and Evolving?”
<http://www.marconisociety.org/press/2014Cerfwebinar.html>
*When*: Monday August 25 2014 1pm EDT | 1700 UTC
*Register*: https://marconisociety.webex.com/
*Questions*: mailto:info at marconisociety?subject=Webinar%20Question
*Twitter*: #vintcerf
<https://twitter.com/search?f=realtime&q=%23vintcerf&src=typd> |
#internet2025
<https://twitter.com/search?f=realtime&q=%23internet2025&src=typd>


Comment <http://isoc-ny.org/p2/6910#respond>    See all comments
<http://isoc-ny.org/p2/6910#comments>





*Permalink*
http://isoc-ny.org/p2/6910







-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
Joly MacFie  218 565 9365 Skype:punkcast
WWWhatsup NYC - http://wwwhatsup.com
 http://pinstand.com - http://punkcast.com
 VP (Admin) - ISOC-NY - http://isoc-ny.org
--------------------------------------------------------------
-
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From katitza at eff.org  Wed Aug 20 18:19:33 2014
From: katitza at eff.org (Katitza Rodriguez)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 17:19:33 -0500
Subject: [governance] EFF Announces 2014 Pioneer Award Winners
In-Reply-To: <53F4F0C8.2020709@eff.org>
References: <53F4F0C8.2020709@eff.org>
Message-ID: <53F51EF5.6090706@eff.org>

Eletronic Frontier Foundation Media Release

For Immediate Release: Wednesday, August 20, 2014

Contact:

Dave Maass
  Media Relations Coordinator
  Electronic Frontier Foundation
  press at eff.org
  +1 415 436-9333 x177

U.N. Free Expression Champion, Congressional Internet
Defender, and Groundbreaking Counter-surveillance Artist Win
EFF Pioneer Awards

EFF to Honor Former U.N. Special Rapporteur Frank La Rue,
U.S. Rep. Zoe Lofgren, and artist Trevor Paglen at San
Francisco Ceremony Featuring the Yes Men

San Francisco - The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) is
pleased to announce the distinguished winners of the 2014
Pioneer Awards: United Nations Special Rapporteur Frank La
Rue, U.S. Rep. Zoe Lofgren, and groundbreaking
counter-surveillance artist Trevor Paglen.

The award ceremony will be held the evening of October 2 at
the Lodge at the Regency Center in San Francisco.  Keynote
speakers will be Jacques Servin and Igor Vamos, better
known as the Yes Men, who are known for their elaborate
parodies and impersonations to fight government and
corporate malfeasance.

Frank La Rue is the former U.N. Special Rapporteur on the
Promotion and Protection of the Right to Freedom of Opinion
and Expression.  From his appointment in 2008 to the end of
his term in 2014, La Rue brought technology to the
forefront of the fight for free expression around the
world, declaring that access to the Internet is a
fundamental human right and highlighting the importance of
uncensored communication and anonymous speech in
increasingly filtered and tracked networks.  La Rue also
fought the global "book famine" for people with visual and
reading disabilities, advocating for an international
Treaty of the Blind to reform over-restrictive copyright
that hindered the production and distribution of books in
accessible formats.  Last year, La Rue published a highly
influential report on the dangers of widespread state
surveillance, arguing that privacy is an essential
requirement for true freedom of expression.  Before taking
his post at the U.N., La Rue spent years working on human
rights issues, including bringing genocide cases against
the military dictatorship in his native Guatemala in 2000
and 2001.

For nearly 20 years, Rep. Zoe Lofgren has been a crucial
voice in Congress on technology, innovation, and free
speech--defending the free and open Internet, fighting for
privacy and free speech, and blocking dangerous copyright
laws while pushing for sensible alternatives. Lofgren
rallied congressional opposition to the Stop Online Piracy
Act (SOPA), one of the defining moments of Internet
activism.  Currently, Lofgren is fighting to reform some of
the worst legal threats to our digital rights: the
Electronic Communications Privacy Act, which regulates our
email privacy with outdated standards; the Digital
Millennium Copyright Act, which has been used to block
phone unlocking, jailbreaking, and our freedom to tinker;
and the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, the law used to
unfairly prosecute Aaron Swartz. Lofgren chairs the
California Democratic Congressional Delegation, the largest
delegation in Congress.

Trevor Paglen is an artist whose work uses methods from
science, journalism, and other disciplines in an attempt to
"see" the historical moment we live in.  Paglen's
groundbreaking projects exposing government secrecy have
included documenting U.S. government drone flights, using
high-end optical systems to photograph top-secret
governmental sites, and tracking classified spacecraft in
Earth's orbit.  In a recent project, Paglen photographed
the National Security Agency, the National Reconnaissance
Office, and the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency,
releasing the images without restriction for public use.
Paglen's visual art has been exhibited at the Metropolitan
Museum of Art in New York, the Tate Modern in London, and
the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art, among many other
places. Paglen is also the author of five books, including
Torture Taxi, an early look at the CIA's extraordinary
rendition program.

"Each of our Pioneer Award winners has helped the world
understand how technology and civil liberties are
interwoven into our lives, and each is still working to
protect our freedom and fight abuses," EFF Executive
Director Shari Steele said.  "We are so proud to be able to
present them with this year's Pioneer Awards."

Tickets to the Pioneer Awards, which includes access to the
general reception and ceremony, are $65 for EFF members and
$75 for non-members.  Also available are tickets for a
special, advance reception featuring some past and present
Pioneer Award winners as well as keynoters, the Yes Men.
The special advance reception tickets are $250, which
includes entry for the ticket holder plus a guest.

Awarded every year since 1992, EFF's Pioneer Awards
recognize the leaders who are extending freedom and
innovation on the electronic frontier.  Previous honorees
include Aaron Swartz, Glenn Greenwald and Laura Poitras,
Tim Berners-Lee, and the Tor Project, among many others.

To buy tickets to the Pioneer
Awards:
https://supporters.eff.org/civicrm/event/register?id=87

For this release:
https://www.eff.org/press/releases/un-free-expression-champion-congressional-internet-defender-and-groundbreaking

About EFF

The Electronic Frontier Foundation is the leading
organization protecting civil liberties in the digital
world. Founded in 1990, we defend free speech online, fight
illegal surveillance, promote the rights of digital
innovators, and work to ensure that the rights and freedoms
we enjoy are enhanced, rather than eroded, as our use of
technology grows. EFF is a member-supported organization.
Find out more at https://www.eff.org.


    -end-








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From gideonrop at gmail.com  Thu Aug 21 03:06:12 2014
From: gideonrop at gmail.com (Gideon)
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 10:06:12 +0300
Subject: [governance] Foley and Internet Governance
In-Reply-To: <EBFBF3F1-7D18-4683-A15A-89353B2E87AB@gmail.com>
References: <EBFBF3F1-7D18-4683-A15A-89353B2E87AB@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP2ohHHEW9W0VdEUFZRoF466dFA1fBt18Fsa6E9JMgWmY0xGhA@mail.gmail.com>

Here is a perspective on the same tragic story

James Foley and the daily horrors of the internet: think hard before
clicking
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/20/james-foley-daily-horrors-internet-think-clicking-beheading?CMP=fb_gu

Regards
Gideon Rop
DotConnectAfrica


On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 10:14 PM, Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro <
salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> The world seems to be going mad with news of  beheading and Ukrainian
> plane being shot down all in several hours time.
>
> Jim Foley a Journalist who brought to light a lot of atrocities and his
> beheading marks the escalation of insanity when ISIS fanatic beheads him in
> a message to Obama.
>
> YouTube and Twitter have taken down aspects of the beheading so as to not
> give credence to terrorists. Some are demanding on Twitter that this is a
> breach of rights to access.
>
> However, when terrorists want to invoke fear and spread their message of
> "hate" it becomes linked to "hate speech" which is an exception under
> Article 19 of the ICCPR and by right should be removed. Also out of
> sensitivity to the Foley family, we don't want the video becoming viral....
>
> Really sad day. #worldgoingmad
>
> Sala
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
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From b.schombe at gmail.com  Thu Aug 21 04:45:02 2014
From: b.schombe at gmail.com (Baudouin SCHOMBE)
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 10:45:02 +0200
Subject: [governance] Closing ceremony - CS speaker - URGENT
In-Reply-To: <CAMz5XN5yzE0i7s=L=-Ye3_eoWj8+EhSVuEV4srqzqbs_Yzusfw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMz5XN5yzE0i7s=L=-Ye3_eoWj8+EhSVuEV4srqzqbs_Yzusfw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHj_20gfcvuMp3y0+FQLUmgDCT6L0E8C5Uht8S=Zh-7v2u9hrg@mail.gmail.com>

I give 3 names

1. Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro
2. Nnenna Nwankama
3. Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond

*SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN*
*REPRESENTANT  TICAFRICA ET CYBERVILLAGE at FRICA/RDC*

*COORDINATION NATIONALE CAFECCOORDINATION NATIONALE REPRONTIC*

Téléphone mobile:+243998983491/+243813684512
email                  : b.schombe at gmail.com
skype                 : b.schombe
blog                    : http://akimambo.unblog.fr





2014-08-20 15:48 GMT+02:00 Deirdre Williams <williams.deirdre at gmail.com>:

> Dear Colleagues,
> This is a reminder about the message from Subi yesterday morning.
>
> "Nominations have been invited by the IGF Secretariat for CS reps for the
> closing ceremony at IGF ISTANBUL,  2014."
>
> Please make your suggestions to the list; nominees should be people who
> will be physically present in Istanbul and willing to accept nomination.
>
> If you wish to make a nomination please do so within the next 24 hours.
>
> Thank you
>
> Mawaki Chango, Deirdre Williams
> Co-coordinators
>
> --
> "The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
> Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
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From b.schombe at gmail.com  Thu Aug 21 05:31:27 2014
From: b.schombe at gmail.com (Baudouin SCHOMBE)
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 11:31:27 +0200
Subject: [governance] Opening cermony
In-Reply-To: <CAMz5XN7=MQWf7kpNu1oSQbzvL6-gJAgnrFPhK2a9NwMhc7u-GQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMz5XN7=MQWf7kpNu1oSQbzvL6-gJAgnrFPhK2a9NwMhc7u-GQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHj_20hAA41aNaFMeNi_KiyA1JiNi=CGHwjJ3oWYPHhihEo51Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Nnenna,

IGF over time becomes a platform for increasingly important as the global,
regional and subregional levels.

It is important that the IGF must very well established in each
country respecting
the multi-stakeholder approach. IGF nationally is the foundation of the
edifice on which consolidates the IGF at the sub regional, regional and
global levels. It is here also that all local actors can talk and discuss face
to face.

It is also important that the debate on the NetMundial intensifies and he
emerges a consensus reading on "NetMundial" initiative and its interaction with
IGF.

It will emphasize the need for the participation of African media in
all IGF and
consider the training and the level of the media has on the IGF process at
all levels.


*SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN*
*REPRESENTANT  TICAFRICA ET CYBERVILLAGE at FRICA/RDC*

*COORDINATION NATIONALE CAFECCOORDINATION NATIONALE REPRONTIC*

Téléphone mobile:+243998983491/+243813684512
email                  : b.schombe at gmail.com
skype                 : b.schombe
blog                    : http://akimambo.unblog.fr





2014-08-19 15:41 GMT+02:00 Deirdre Williams <williams.deirdre at gmail.com>:

> Dear Colleagues,
> Yesterday I heard that I have been selected by the  MAG  to make the
> civil society presentation at the opening ceremony. Please send me your
> suggestions of topics for inclusion so that, as far as it's possible in
> such a short time, I can say what all of us want to be said.
> The IGC and Bestbits are not all of civil society;please help me to as
> large a view as possible by passing on this message to others in as wide a
> reach as possible.
> Thank you
> Deirdre Williams
> Co-coordinator, IG Caucua.
>
>
> --
> "The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
> Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
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From williams.deirdre at gmail.com  Thu Aug 21 09:19:22 2014
From: williams.deirdre at gmail.com (Deirdre Williams)
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 09:19:22 -0400
Subject: [governance] Opening cermony
In-Reply-To: <CAHj_20hAA41aNaFMeNi_KiyA1JiNi=CGHwjJ3oWYPHhihEo51Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMz5XN7=MQWf7kpNu1oSQbzvL6-gJAgnrFPhK2a9NwMhc7u-GQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHj_20hAA41aNaFMeNi_KiyA1JiNi=CGHwjJ3oWYPHhihEo51Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMz5XN610LghRr2f87W+=kahm5S3VYBWqV=ViwtY6S-V9NvnKA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Baudoin,
It's De not Nnenna, but I'll take that as an ENORMOUS vote of confidence.
Thank you :-) And thank you for the suggestions.
De


On 21 August 2014 05:31, Baudouin SCHOMBE <b.schombe at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Nnenna,
>
> IGF over time becomes a platform for increasingly important as the global,
> regional and subregional levels.
>
> It is important that the IGF must very well established in each country respecting
> the multi-stakeholder approach. IGF nationally is the foundation of the
> edifice on which consolidates the IGF at the sub regional, regional and
> global levels. It is here also that all local actors can talk and discuss face
> to face.
>
> It is also important that the debate on the NetMundial intensifies and he
> emerges a consensus reading on "NetMundial" initiative and its interaction with
> IGF.
>
> It will emphasize the need for the participation of African media in all
> IGF and consider the training and the level of the media has on the IGF
> process at all levels.
>
>
> *SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN*
> *REPRESENTANT  TICAFRICA ET CYBERVILLAGE at FRICA/RDC*
>
> *COORDINATION NATIONALE CAFECCOORDINATION NATIONALE REPRONTIC*
>
> Téléphone mobile:+243998983491/+243813684512
> email                  : b.schombe at gmail.com
> skype                 : b.schombe
> blog                    : http://akimambo.unblog.fr
>
>
>
>
>
> 2014-08-19 15:41 GMT+02:00 Deirdre Williams <williams.deirdre at gmail.com>:
>
>>  Dear Colleagues,
>> Yesterday I heard that I have been selected by the  MAG  to make the
>> civil society presentation at the opening ceremony. Please send me your
>> suggestions of topics for inclusion so that, as far as it's possible in
>> such a short time, I can say what all of us want to be said.
>> The IGC and Bestbits are not all of civil society;please help me to as
>> large a view as possible by passing on this message to others in as wide a
>> reach as possible.
>> Thank you
>> Deirdre Williams
>> Co-coordinator, IG Caucua.
>>
>>
>> --
>> “The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
>> Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>


-- 
“The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
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From b.schombe at gmail.com  Thu Aug 21 10:05:25 2014
From: b.schombe at gmail.com (Baudouin SCHOMBE)
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 16:05:25 +0200
Subject: [governance] Opening cermony
In-Reply-To: <CAMz5XN610LghRr2f87W+=kahm5S3VYBWqV=ViwtY6S-V9NvnKA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMz5XN7=MQWf7kpNu1oSQbzvL6-gJAgnrFPhK2a9NwMhc7u-GQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHj_20hAA41aNaFMeNi_KiyA1JiNi=CGHwjJ3oWYPHhihEo51Q@mail.gmail.com> <CAMz5XN610LghRr2f87W+=kahm5S3VYBWqV=ViwtY6S-V9NvnKA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHj_20hhKRKk1J=xK8m1em+KLbf63XZMVV=oPi2L=nC-Q7AmHg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks De for rectification, so we still thinking about IGF in future

*SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN*
*REPRESENTANT  TICAFRICA ET CYBERVILLAGE at FRICA/RDC*

*COORDINATION NATIONALE CAFECCOORDINATION NATIONALE REPRONTIC*

Téléphone mobile:+243998983491/+243813684512
email                  : b.schombe at gmail.com
skype                 : b.schombe
blog                    : http://akimambo.unblog.fr





2014-08-21 15:19 GMT+02:00 Deirdre Williams <williams.deirdre at gmail.com>:

> Dear Baudoin,
> It's De not Nnenna, but I'll take that as an ENORMOUS vote of confidence.
> Thank you :-) And thank you for the suggestions.
> De
>
>
> On 21 August 2014 05:31, Baudouin SCHOMBE <b.schombe at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Nnenna,
>>
>> IGF over time becomes a platform for increasingly important as the global,
>> regional and subregional levels.
>>
>> It is important that the IGF must very well established in each country respecting
>> the multi-stakeholder approach. IGF nationally is the foundation of the
>> edifice on which consolidates the IGF at the sub regional, regional and
>> global levels. It is here also that all local actors can talk and discuss face
>> to face.
>>
>> It is also important that the debate on the NetMundial intensifies and he
>> emerges a consensus reading on "NetMundial" initiative and its
>> interaction with IGF.
>>
>> It will emphasize the need for the participation of African media in all
>> IGF and consider the training and the level of the media has on the IGF
>> process at all levels.
>>
>>
>> *SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN*
>> *REPRESENTANT  TICAFRICA ET CYBERVILLAGE at FRICA/RDC*
>>
>> *COORDINATION NATIONALE CAFECCOORDINATION NATIONALE REPRONTIC*
>>
>> Téléphone mobile:+243998983491/+243813684512
>> email                  : b.schombe at gmail.com
>> skype                 : b.schombe
>> blog                    : http://akimambo.unblog.fr
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2014-08-19 15:41 GMT+02:00 Deirdre Williams <williams.deirdre at gmail.com>:
>>
>>>  Dear Colleagues,
>>> Yesterday I heard that I have been selected by the  MAG  to make the
>>> civil society presentation at the opening ceremony. Please send me your
>>> suggestions of topics for inclusion so that, as far as it's possible in
>>> such a short time, I can say what all of us want to be said.
>>> The IGC and Bestbits are not all of civil society;please help me to as
>>> large a view as possible by passing on this message to others in as wide a
>>> reach as possible.
>>> Thank you
>>> Deirdre Williams
>>> Co-coordinator, IG Caucua.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> "The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir
>>> William Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> "The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
> Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
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>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
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From parminder at itforchange.net  Thu Aug 21 12:07:00 2014
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 21:37:00 +0530
Subject: [governance] Re: [bestbits] Fwd: [ianatransition] ICANN
 Accountability & Governance Public Experts Group Members Announced
In-Reply-To: <CAK-FJAc4-=GTLaRujwmi_WFF3uXjk8vm_hVeJEPFq5ZVRvKbpw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D01926E5.8CCC%grace.abuhamad@icann.org> <CAK-FJAc4-=GTLaRujwmi_WFF3uXjk8vm_hVeJEPFq5ZVRvKbpw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53F61924.8080002@itforchange.net>



The fact that ICANN can announce a team of experts to guide what should 
be a process of democratic global governance which consists of two 
members from the US and two from EU, in this time and age is close to 
sick...

But then they are able to do so because those who should ask questions 
have forgotten how to ask questions from those who wield power, and seem 
more busy cosying up to them from whatever reasons.

Civil society groups in the IG space really need to sit back and think 
what they have been doing and what they have achieved in all these years.

I would not even participate in a discussion on an ICANN accountability 
process which starts on this note, which is such a big affront to such a 
big part of the world.

parminder

On Wednesday 20 August 2014 02:00 AM, Carolina Rossini wrote:
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: *Grace Abuhamad* <grace.abuhamad at icann.org 
> <mailto:grace.abuhamad at icann.org>>
> Date: Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 4:08 PM
> Subject: [ianatransition] ICANN Accountability & Governance Public 
> Experts Group Members Announced
> To: "ianatransition at icann.org <mailto:ianatransition at icann.org>" 
> <ianatransition at icann.org <mailto:ianatransition at icann.org>>
>
>
> Please see original announcement at 
> https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2014-08-19-en
>
>
>   ICANN Accountability & Governance Public Experts Group Members Announced
>
>
> As described in the 14 August 2014 posting of the Enhancing 
> ICANN Accountability: Process and Next Steps 
> <https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/process-next-steps-2014-08-14-en>, 
> four respected individuals with backgrounds in academia, governmental 
> relations, global insight, and the Affirmation of Commitments (AoC), 
> will form the Accountability & Governance Public Expsible for the 
> *selection of up to seven Advisors to sit on the Coordination 
> Group* to assure that best practices are brought from the larger 
> global community. Once selected by the Public Experts Group, these 
> Advisors will contribute research and advice, as well as bring 
> perspectives on global best practices to enrich the discussion, all 
> while engaging with a broader network of accountability experts from 
> around the world.
>
> The members of the Public Experts Group are:
>
>   * *Brian Cute*erts Group. Selected by ICANN's President and CEO,
>     Fadi Chehadé, members of the Public Experts Group will be respon
>
>     CEO of The Public Interest Registry and Chair of ICANN's first and
>     second Accountability and Transparency Review Teams
>     <https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/accountability-2012-02-25-en> (ATRT).^1
>     <https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2014-08-19-en#foot1>
>
>   * *Jeanette Hofmann*
>
>     Director, Alexander von Humboldt Institute for Internet and
>     Society, in Berlin, Germany. She also conducts research at the
>     Social Science Research Center Berlin. She represented the
>     academic community as one of four co-chairs of the NETmundial
>     Global Multistakeholder Meeting on the Future of Internet
>     Governance in São Paulo, Brazil, in April 2014.
>
>   * *Ambassador Janis Karklins*
>
>     Latvian Ambassador. Chair of the Multistakeholder Advisory Group
>     (MAG); former Chairman of the Governmental Advisory Committee,
>     GAC Liaison to the ICANN Board and co-selector of the ATRT1.
>
>   * *Lawrence E. Strickling*
>
>     NTIA Administrator and Assistant Secretary for Communication and
>     Information of the U.S. Department of Commerce; and member of both
>     ATRT1 and ATRT2.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ^1 <https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2014-08-19-en#note1> 
>  Mandated by the Affirmation of Commitments (AoC), the ATRT is a team 
> of community representatives responsible for reviewing ICANN's 
> accountability, transparency and pursuit of the interests of global 
> Internet users on a recurring basis.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ianatransition mailing list
> ianatransition at icann.org <mailto:ianatransition at icann.org>
> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ianatransition
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> -- 
> /Carolina Rossini /
> /Vice President, International Policy/
> *Public Knowledge*
> _http://www.publicknowledge.org/_
> + 1 6176979389 | skype: carolrossini | @carolinarossini
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>       bestbits at lists.bestbits.net.
> To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:
>       http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits

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From parminder at itforchange.net  Thu Aug 21 12:18:05 2014
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 21:48:05 +0530
Subject: [governance] Closing ceremony - CS speaker - URGENT
In-Reply-To: <CAMz5XN5yzE0i7s=L=-Ye3_eoWj8+EhSVuEV4srqzqbs_Yzusfw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMz5XN5yzE0i7s=L=-Ye3_eoWj8+EhSVuEV4srqzqbs_Yzusfw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53F61BBD.6010109@itforchange.net>

I am all for Dierdre for the opening ceremony, but one thing I could not 
understand.

How was the selection for opening ceremony slot made by MAG (or whoever 
made it), but that of closing ceremony passed to CS groups to give 
nominations for... Isnt is it a bit ad hoc, and I think civil society 
should ask questions about ad hoc and unexplained processes of public 
institutions..

parminder

On Wednesday 20 August 2014 07:18 PM, Deirdre Williams wrote:
> Dear Colleagues,
> This is a reminder about the message from Subi yesterday morning.
>
> "Nominations have been invited by the IGF Secretariat for CS reps for 
> the closing ceremony at IGF ISTANBUL,  2014."
>
> Please make your suggestions to the list; nominees should be people 
> who will be physically present in Istanbul and willing to accept 
> nomination.
>
> If you wish to make a nomination please do so within the next 24 hours.
>
> Thank you
>
> Mawaki Chango, Deirdre Williams
> Co-coordinators
>
> -- 
> “The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir 
> William Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979

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From nhklein at gmx.net  Thu Aug 21 12:26:19 2014
From: nhklein at gmx.net (Norbert Klein)
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 23:26:19 +0700
Subject: [governance] Re: [bestbits] Fwd: [ianatransition] ICANN
 Accountability & Governance Public Experts Group Members Announced
In-Reply-To: <53F61924.8080002@itforchange.net>
References: <D01926E5.8CCC%grace.abuhamad@icann.org> <CAK-FJAc4-=GTLaRujwmi_WFF3uXjk8vm_hVeJEPFq5ZVRvKbpw@mail.gmail.com> <53F61924.8080002@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <53F61DAB.6040806@gmx.net>


On 8/21/2014 11:07 PM, parminder wrote:
>
>
> The fact that ICANN can announce a team of experts to guide what 
> should be a process of democratic global governance which consists of 
> two members from the US and two from EU, in this time and age is close 
> to sick...
>
> But then they are able to do so because those who should ask questions 
> have forgotten how to ask questions from those who wield power, and 
> seem more busy cosying up to them from whatever reasons.
>
> Civil society groups in the IG space really need to sit back and think 
> what they have been doing and what they have achieved in all these years.
>
> I would not even participate in a discussion on an ICANN 
> accountability process which starts on this note, which is such a big 
> affront to such a big part of the world.
>
> parminder

As far as I can remember, in the old Non-Commercial Users Constituence 
(NCUC) of ICANN, we were always concerned for regional ballance in our 
structures, reflecting the official ICANN regions of the world, and the 
concern continues in the Non-Commercial Stakeholders Group (NCSG).

This had always been a real concerns of NCUC. It was not carried through 
similarly strictly in many other ICANN section and related issues.

The Experts Group Members announced for theICANN Accountability Process 
are such an example of the result when such basic broad inclusiveness 
principles are disregarded.


Norbert Klein
Cambodia


>
> On Wednesday 20 August 2014 02:00 AM, Carolina Rossini wrote:
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: *Grace Abuhamad* <grace.abuhamad at icann.org 
>> <mailto:grace.abuhamad at icann.org>>
>> Date: Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 4:08 PM
>> Subject: [ianatransition] ICANN Accountability & Governance Public 
>> Experts Group Members Announced
>> To: "ianatransition at icann.org <mailto:ianatransition at icann.org>" 
>> <ianatransition at icann.org <mailto:ianatransition at icann.org>>
>>
>>
>> Please see original announcement at 
>> https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2014-08-19-en
>>
>>
>>   ICANN Accountability & Governance Public Experts Group Members
>>   Announced
>>
>>
>> As described in the 14 August 2014 posting of the Enhancing 
>> ICANN Accountability: Process and Next Steps 
>> <https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/process-next-steps-2014-08-14-en>, 
>> four respected individuals with backgrounds in academia, governmental 
>> relations, global insight, and the Affirmation of Commitments (AoC), 
>> will form the Accountability & Governance Public Expsible for the 
>> *selection of up to seven Advisors to sit on the Coordination 
>> Group* to assure that best practices are brought from the larger 
>> global community. Once selected by the Public Experts Group, these 
>> Advisors will contribute research and advice, as well as bring 
>> perspectives on global best practices to enrich the discussion, all 
>> while engaging with a broader network of accountability experts from 
>> around the world.
>>
>> The members of the Public Experts Group are:
>>
>>   * *Brian Cute*erts Group. Selected by ICANN's President and CEO,
>>     Fadi Chehadé, members of the Public Experts Group will be respon
>>
>>     CEO of The Public Interest Registry and Chair of ICANN's first
>>     and second Accountability and Transparency Review Teams
>>     <https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/accountability-2012-02-25-en> (ATRT).^1
>>     <https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2014-08-19-en#foot1>
>>
>>   * *Jeanette Hofmann*
>>
>>     Director, Alexander von Humboldt Institute for Internet and
>>     Society, in Berlin, Germany. She also conducts research at the
>>     Social Science Research Center Berlin. She represented the
>>     academic community as one of four co-chairs of the NETmundial
>>     Global Multistakeholder Meeting on the Future of Internet
>>     Governance in São Paulo, Brazil, in April 2014.
>>
>>   * *Ambassador Janis Karklins*
>>
>>     Latvian Ambassador. Chair of the Multistakeholder Advisory Group
>>     (MAG); former Chairman of the Governmental Advisory Committee,
>>     GAC Liaison to the ICANN Board and co-selector of the ATRT1.
>>
>>   * *Lawrence E. Strickling*
>>
>>     NTIA Administrator and Assistant Secretary for Communication and
>>     Information of the U.S. Department of Commerce; and member of
>>     both ATRT1 and ATRT2.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> ^1 <https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2014-08-19-en#note1> 
>>  Mandated by the Affirmation of Commitments (AoC), the ATRT is a team 
>> of community representatives responsible for reviewing ICANN's 
>> accountability, transparency and pursuit of the interests of global 
>> Internet users on a recurring basis.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ianatransition mailing list
>> ianatransition at icann.org <mailto:ianatransition at icann.org>
>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ianatransition
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> -- 
>> /Carolina Rossini /
>> /Vice President, International Policy/
>> *Public Knowledge*
>> _http://www.publicknowledge.org/_
>> + 1 6176979389 | skype: carolrossini | @carolinarossini
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>       bestbits at lists.bestbits.net.
>> To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:
>>       http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits
>


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From pouzin at well.com  Thu Aug 21 14:03:13 2014
From: pouzin at well.com (Louis Pouzin (well))
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 20:03:13 +0200
Subject: [governance] Closing ceremony - CS speaker - URGENT
In-Reply-To: <53F61BBD.6010109@itforchange.net>
References: <CAMz5XN5yzE0i7s=L=-Ye3_eoWj8+EhSVuEV4srqzqbs_Yzusfw@mail.gmail.com>
 <53F61BBD.6010109@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <CA+EjHYr8dQKN6t-5zjyo-GNxH5ugyqar3JJmrHuOANuP8EnmKg@mail.gmail.com>

Propaganda: bottom-up.
Reality: top-down
What's new ?

Luckily Deirdre is a fine choice.

Louis
- - -

On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 6:18 PM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
wrote:

>  I am all for Dierdre for the opening ceremony, but one thing I could not
> understand.
>
> How was the selection for opening ceremony slot made by MAG (or whoever
> made it), but that of closing ceremony passed to CS groups to give
> nominations for... Isnt is it a bit ad hoc, and I think civil society
> should ask questions about ad hoc and unexplained processes of public
> institutions..
>
> parminder
>
>
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From robin at ipjustice.org  Thu Aug 21 18:57:57 2014
From: robin at ipjustice.org (Robin Gross)
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 15:57:57 -0700
Subject: [governance] =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?Quelle_Suprise!__ICANN=92s_Accounta?=
 =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?bility_Plan_Gives_ICANN_Board_Total_Control?=
Message-ID: <D2FB6ACF-6098-4A55-9C52-8D93BC256BBD@ipjustice.org>

Here's my evaluation of ICANN's recently announced plan to address the accountability crisis at the organization.

Thanks,
Robin
http://ipjustice.org/wp/2014/08/21/quelle-suprise-icann’s-accountability-plan-gives-icann-board-total-control-icann-limits-accountability-improvement-measures-to-toothless-self-policing/

Quelle Suprise!  ICANN’s Accountability Plan Gives ICANN Board Total Control

ICANN Limits Accountability Improvement Measures to Toothless Self-Policing

By Robin Gross

I.  ICANN’s So-Called “Enhancing Accountability” Process

After a long wait, ICANN’s senior management finally released its plan for “Enhancing Accountability” at the private California corporation that makes global Internet domain name policy.  Unfortunately, the accountability deficit crisis created by ICANN’s longstanding policy of purely “self-policing” with no meaningful external accountability mechanisms will not be solved by this weak plan for more self-policing. 

Perhaps telling was the organization’s initial and consistent framing of the issue as “maintaining” accountability beyond the end of the US Government’s stewardship role, rather than acknowledging that this effort was in response to widespread community outcry expressing major dissatisfaction with ICANN’s inadequate existing accountability measures.

Conflict of Interest Disregarded by ICANN in Formulation of Plan

Many organizations and individuals commented online and during the London ICANN #50 meeting about the inherent conflict of interest with respect to an organization that proposes to manage the process that could reveal the organization’s accountability shortcomings and thus not always show the organization in its best light if the process is rigorously pursued.  Rather than heed the numerous cautions from the community regarding ICANN’s conflict of interest in attempting to design the process to hold itself accountable, ICANN plans to be in charge of every key element of the process.

Irregular Process Employed in Development of ICANN Plan

>From the beginning, ICANN’s senior management has driven the entire process for creating this plan, from posting a series of leading and somewhat irrelevant questions on which it would take public comment on accountability, and then developing the plan 100% internally without an opportunity for the community to provide meaningful input.  ICANN should have invited the community to make proposals for a plan based on the public comment, but ICANN senior management reserved the plan development right exclusively to itself.

No Bottom-up Proposal For Consideration, Only Top-Down Edict for Implementation

Nor is ICANN permitting a public comment period on its accountability plan, which is odd given the importance of the issue, ICANN’s inherent conflict of interest in the underlying issue, and the stated regular practice of providing an opportunity for public comment on an ICANN proposal.  But in this case, it isn’t a proposal for the public to comment on, or which the community may influence; rather, it is ICANN’s plan for what it intends do (not much) and ICANN isn’t taking input on it.  There is not the usual pretense of “bottom-up” from senior staff about this ICANN plan.  Instead ICANN senior staff fully admits its judgment supersedes the community’s judgment in ICANN’s belated written explanation for its plan.

Irregular Delay of Publication of Qualities Recognized to be Built into Plan

Another irregular aspect of this process, which coincidentally disempowered the community’s ability to engage in the plan’s development, was senior management’s decision to withhold its synthesis of the public comments until after staff developed and published its plan as a fait-de-complait.  And even then, the belated synthesis was framed as an argument in favor of staff’s specific plan forward, rather than a neutral evaluation of the public comments and inviting community discussion about the specific needs and desired characteristics to build into the plan.  

ICANN senior staff claims there was no time to entertain proposals from the community.  The initial public comment period ended before the London ICANN meeting in June, so ICANN could have invited proposals at any time over the last 6-8 weeks of public delay but behind the scenes engineering.  Whatever the intent was in delaying the release of this information to the public, it was inappropriate for staff to delay the sharing of its plan until it was too far along in the process for the community to provide meaningful input.  That just isn’t how “bottom-up” policy is made, if we are being honest. 

At best, ICANN senior staff’s handling of the process was another half-baked and hurried mistake that breeds mistrust.  At worst, it demonstrates a troubling misuse of staff position in the process to engineer an outcome favoring the organization at the expense of other legitimate interests.

ICANN Declares Itself Top Decision Maker

Despite ICANN senior management assurances in London when speaking to community groups, that the community would primarily be making these key decisions, ICANN now openly claims it is in a position to over-rule the community and impose its own judgment over that of the community on these key decisions about how to hold the organization accountable for its actions.

Although ICANN senior management frequently claims the organization is “bottom up” and therefore legitimate in its authority, ICANN has not explained on what authority it may replace the bottom up community’s judgment with its own in the formulation of this plan/edict.  It remains to be seen if the community will quietly accept this ICANN power play and further usurpation of the interest ultimately served by ICANN away from the public interest.  What if the community actually calls ICANN on its flimsy and self-serving justifications?

II.  Substance of the ICANN Plan

Don’t Get Too Excited

It should come as no surprise that a plan which was developed through a process entirely controlled by ICANN senior management favors the organization in its substance as well.  Bad process produces outcomes equally bad in substance.   

In short, the plan will be largely ineffective about addressing ICANN’s major accountability problems, such as constant mission creep, top-down decision making, transparency shortcomings, failing to respect human rights in org policies, and meaningless internal redress measures when the board/staff fail to follow the organization’s bylaws or other stated processes.

Under its plan, ICANN is creating three new bodies to work under the banner “Enhancing ICANN Accountability and Governance”.  The “Coordination Group” prioritizes issues and makes decisions about final recommendations and solutions on issues identified by the “Cross Community Group”.  ICANN has also created the “Public Experts Group” which is comprised of 4 individuals that ICANN has deemed “respectable” to appoint 7 people onto the key decision making “Coordination Group”.

ICANN Board Will Exclusively Decide Which Improvements to Accept

All one really needs to know is that under ICANN’s plan, its board may adopt or reject any recommendation of this accountability effort at its own option.  So despite widespread calls for independent accountability measures from the community, ICANN board will make all final decisions about what accountability improvements may actually be made.  Under ICANN’s plan, recommendations that call for the board to operate in a more transparent manner could be rejected by the board for example.  A plan for more self-policing does not provide confidence that meaningful accountability reform will result from this effort, unfortunately.

ICANN Board Will Exclusively Develop Groups’ Charters

Since the power to decide which of the groups’ recommendations are implemented was not enough control over this effort for ICANN’s board, the plan further provides for the board to be in total control of the development of the charters under which the accountability groups will operate.   Not exactly “bottom up” operations.   Nothing gets in that the board doesn’t want, and nothing coming out will be adopted that the board doesn’t approve.

Group Members Include Several Obliged to Protect ICANN

The Coordination Group, which is empowered with prioritizing issues and recommending solutions, is far too heavily stacked with individuals who are beholden to ICANN for their appointment or are a representatives of the organization and under a legal obligation to always act in the best interests of the corporation.  Besides the stakeholders who represent communities ICANN was established to serve, ICANN has installed a staff member, which management confirmed would be one of ICANN’s lawyers, onto the Coordination Group.  ICANN has also decided that a board member should additionally serve as a liaison on the Coordination Group.  Both the ICANN board member and ICANN staff lawyer are under strict legal obligations to protect the corporation under California law by virtue of their fiduciary role with respect to the organization and attending legal obligations.  So there are at least two members of the Coordination Group with strong incentives to avoid finding any fault with the organization or need for serious improvement.  ICANN additionally plans to appoint someone who is an “expert on the ATRT process” (aka “ICANN insider”) to the Coordination Group.

What this process highlights is that the public’s interest to rigorously pursue accountability improvements in a global governance organization clashes with hard and cold corporate legal obligations to protect the corporation.  ICANN’s board, senior staff, and lawyers hold obligations under California law to always act in the best interests of the corporation – not the public interest.   This means they can’t admit mistakes, and will be legally obligated to mitigate ICANN’s responsibility for any wrongdoing.  Board member and lawyer “whistle blowers” are generally illegal in California.   Given reports of disgruntled ex-ICANN board members receiving cease and desist letters citing this legal obligation to keep quiet, there is little incentive for these group members to push for a thorough and rigorous examination of ICANN’s accountability shortcomings within the group.

Anti-Democratic: Comprised too Heavily of Non-Stakeholder “Advisors”

As a global public governance institution, ICANN has an obligation to aspire to and operate in accordance with democratic principles for it to have any legitimacy to govern.   Unfortunately this plan takes ICANN and its unique model of multi-stakeholder governance several steps away from “democratic”, in which decisions are made by the stakeholders, those impacted by the decisions -- and more towards a top-down corporate structure that operates in the interest of the private organization, instead of the public interest.

ICANN has installed (up to) 7 “advisors” to additionally serve on the Coordination Group, who are not stakeholders, but should provide expertise on specific issues related to accountability.  The two main problems with this plan is that any external “advisors” should be selected by a legitimate bottom-up process, and should serve, in fact, in an “advisory” role -- and not in a decision making role.  The non-democratic “advisors” is another sign from ICANN that it doesn’t actually trust bottom-up governance, but instead relies heavily on hand-picked “experts” to temper the will of the stakeholders – those who are subject to ICANN’s policies.  No rationale was provided by ICANN for why it needs so many non-stakeholder decision makers in proportion to actual stakeholders given democratic principles of self-governance.  

As noted, these non-stakeholder “advisors” shall be appointed by 4 individuals that ICANN has deemed “respectable” (which means not likely to cause any trouble for the organization), who together ICANN calls “the Public Experts Group”.  Despite ICANN’s attempt at slight-of-hand regarding the organization’s unacceptable appointment of these “advisors” (shifting from board to staff appointment, but still ICANN-appointed), these appointments are not truly independent if they were selected by someone that ICANN senior management had to approve in the first place.  The source of authority (the corporation, not the bottom-up public) is still the same in both cases and illegitimate for being anti-democratic.  The community should be making these appointments, especially given the organization’s inherent conflict of interest in the underlying issue.

Decision Making Roles Mislabeled as Advisory Roles in ICANN Plan

Furthermore, they are not truly “advisors” used for “specific expertise”, but rather are appointments empowered to make decisions about final recommendations.  Those are entirely different roles with different sources of authority.  Democratic values require “advisors” to in fact serve in an “advisory” role, and not in a decisional role, which is reserved for stakeholders – those governed by the decisions this group makes.  Experts are certainly welcome and should be utilized in a true advisory role.   It is simply dishonest for ICANN to label people “advisors” while empowering them to be key decision makers in the process.

ICANN Decided It is the Primary Interest to be Served by the ICANN Plan

It was a remarkable move for ICANN to so openly claim in its plan that its own corporate interest supersedes the interest of the Internet community that the organization was established to serve.  ICANN boldly stated in its “analysis of comments” that ICANN itself is a stakeholder in this process as a holder of resources, and as such is entitled to be the predominant decisional point and interest served in this effort.

With this plan ICANN has officially usurped the authority of those stakeholders that the organization is supposed to serve.  The public interest must yield to the organization’s separate interest.   ICANN has become an “end” in and of itself with a blank checkbook and unbounded ambition.

III.  Conclusion: Search For True ICANN Accountability Must Move Elsewhere

Despite the overwhelming call for the community creation of an independent accountability process, board-controlled toothless, self-policing is all ICANN senior management will permit with this effort.  The community will have to come together and build a plan of its own in order to get the much needed accountability improvements that are necessary for the management of critical Internet resources.  Certainly some painless minor cosmetic type improvements could be achieved with ICANN’s plan, but the painful efforts required to achieve meaningful accountability from ICANN will have to move to another forum, outside of ICANN’s control.

Addendum:  ICANN Accountability Discussion at IGF 2014

We can take a closer look at the ICANN accountability crisis at the United Nations Internet Governance Forum (IGF), which meets in Istanbul from 2-5 September 2014 to explore Internet governance issues.  A panel discussion to tackle the issue of ICANN accountability will be held on Wednesday, 3 September from 9:00 – 10:30 a.m. in Istanbul (9:00am PDT), with online remote participation available. 

The IGF workshop panelists include Larry Strictling of the US NTIA, Pat Kane of Verisign, ICANN Board Member Gonzalo Navarro, Carlos Afonso of CGI.br, Avri Doria, Jordan Carter of InternetNZ, and ICANN Ombudsman Chris LaHatte.  The IGF workshop #23 entitled “Accountability in the ICANN Multi-Stakeholder Governance Regime” is moderated by Robin Gross and co-sponsored by IP Justice, CGI.br, the Internet Governance Project, the Public Interest Registry, the Internet Commerce Association, and InternetNZ.   David Cake of Electronic Frontiers Australia is the remote participation moderator for this IGF session, which will be held in the IGF venue room #2.

 More information on this IGF Workshop #23 is available here.

http://ipjustice.org/wp/2014/08/21/igf-2014-workshop-23-accountability-in-the-icann-multi-stakeholder-governance-regime/
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From ca at cafonso.ca  Thu Aug 21 19:21:49 2014
From: ca at cafonso.ca (Carlos A. Afonso)
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 20:21:49 -0300
Subject: [governance] =?UTF-8?Q?Quelle_Suprise!__ICANN=E2=80=99s_Accou?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?ntability_Plan_Gives_ICANN_Board_Total_Control?=
In-Reply-To: <D2FB6ACF-6098-4A55-9C52-8D93BC256BBD@ipjustice.org>
References: <D2FB6ACF-6098-4A55-9C52-8D93BC256BBD@ipjustice.org>
Message-ID: <53F67F0D.8070006@cafonso.ca>

Tremendous evaluation, Robin! And, by the way, votre français est 
impeccable! :)

[] fraterno

--c.a.

On 08/21/2014 07:57 PM, Robin Gross wrote:
> Here's my evaluation of ICANN's recently announced plan to address the accountability crisis at the organization.
>
> Thanks,
> Robin
> http://ipjustice.org/wp/2014/08/21/quelle-suprise-icann’s-accountability-plan-gives-icann-board-total-control-icann-limits-accountability-improvement-measures-to-toothless-self-policing/
>
> Quelle Suprise!  ICANN’s Accountability Plan Gives ICANN Board Total Control
>
> ICANN Limits Accountability Improvement Measures to Toothless Self-Policing
>
> By Robin Gross
>
> I.  ICANN’s So-Called “Enhancing Accountability” Process
>
> After a long wait, ICANN’s senior management finally released its plan for “Enhancing Accountability” at the private California corporation that makes global Internet domain name policy.  Unfortunately, the accountability deficit crisis created by ICANN’s longstanding policy of purely “self-policing” with no meaningful external accountability mechanisms will not be solved by this weak plan for more self-policing.
>
> Perhaps telling was the organization’s initial and consistent framing of the issue as “maintaining” accountability beyond the end of the US Government’s stewardship role, rather than acknowledging that this effort was in response to widespread community outcry expressing major dissatisfaction with ICANN’s inadequate existing accountability measures.
>
> Conflict of Interest Disregarded by ICANN in Formulation of Plan
>
> Many organizations and individuals commented online and during the London ICANN #50 meeting about the inherent conflict of interest with respect to an organization that proposes to manage the process that could reveal the organization’s accountability shortcomings and thus not always show the organization in its best light if the process is rigorously pursued.  Rather than heed the numerous cautions from the community regarding ICANN’s conflict of interest in attempting to design the process to hold itself accountable, ICANN plans to be in charge of every key element of the process.
>
> Irregular Process Employed in Development of ICANN Plan
>
>>From the beginning, ICANN’s senior management has driven the entire process for creating this plan, from posting a series of leading and somewhat irrelevant questions on which it would take public comment on accountability, and then developing the plan 100% internally without an opportunity for the community to provide meaningful input.  ICANN should have invited the community to make proposals for a plan based on the public comment, but ICANN senior management reserved the plan development right exclusively to itself.
>
> No Bottom-up Proposal For Consideration, Only Top-Down Edict for Implementation
>
> Nor is ICANN permitting a public comment period on its accountability plan, which is odd given the importance of the issue, ICANN’s inherent conflict of interest in the underlying issue, and the stated regular practice of providing an opportunity for public comment on an ICANN proposal.  But in this case, it isn’t a proposal for the public to comment on, or which the community may influence; rather, it is ICANN’s plan for what it intends do (not much) and ICANN isn’t taking input on it.  There is not the usual pretense of “bottom-up” from senior staff about this ICANN plan.  Instead ICANN senior staff fully admits its judgment supersedes the community’s judgment in ICANN’s belated written explanation for its plan.
>
> Irregular Delay of Publication of Qualities Recognized to be Built into Plan
>
> Another irregular aspect of this process, which coincidentally disempowered the community’s ability to engage in the plan’s development, was senior management’s decision to withhold its synthesis of the public comments until after staff developed and published its plan as a fait-de-complait.  And even then, the belated synthesis was framed as an argument in favor of staff’s specific plan forward, rather than a neutral evaluation of the public comments and inviting community discussion about the specific needs and desired characteristics to build into the plan.
>
> ICANN senior staff claims there was no time to entertain proposals from the community.  The initial public comment period ended before the London ICANN meeting in June, so ICANN could have invited proposals at any time over the last 6-8 weeks of public delay but behind the scenes engineering.  Whatever the intent was in delaying the release of this information to the public, it was inappropriate for staff to delay the sharing of its plan until it was too far along in the process for the community to provide meaningful input.  That just isn’t how “bottom-up” policy is made, if we are being honest.
>
> At best, ICANN senior staff’s handling of the process was another half-baked and hurried mistake that breeds mistrust.  At worst, it demonstrates a troubling misuse of staff position in the process to engineer an outcome favoring the organization at the expense of other legitimate interests.
>
> ICANN Declares Itself Top Decision Maker
>
> Despite ICANN senior management assurances in London when speaking to community groups, that the community would primarily be making these key decisions, ICANN now openly claims it is in a position to over-rule the community and impose its own judgment over that of the community on these key decisions about how to hold the organization accountable for its actions.
>
> Although ICANN senior management frequently claims the organization is “bottom up” and therefore legitimate in its authority, ICANN has not explained on what authority it may replace the bottom up community’s judgment with its own in the formulation of this plan/edict.  It remains to be seen if the community will quietly accept this ICANN power play and further usurpation of the interest ultimately served by ICANN away from the public interest.  What if the community actually calls ICANN on its flimsy and self-serving justifications?
>
> II.  Substance of the ICANN Plan
>
> Don’t Get Too Excited
>
> It should come as no surprise that a plan which was developed through a process entirely controlled by ICANN senior management favors the organization in its substance as well.  Bad process produces outcomes equally bad in substance.
>
> In short, the plan will be largely ineffective about addressing ICANN’s major accountability problems, such as constant mission creep, top-down decision making, transparency shortcomings, failing to respect human rights in org policies, and meaningless internal redress measures when the board/staff fail to follow the organization’s bylaws or other stated processes.
>
> Under its plan, ICANN is creating three new bodies to work under the banner “Enhancing ICANN Accountability and Governance”.  The “Coordination Group” prioritizes issues and makes decisions about final recommendations and solutions on issues identified by the “Cross Community Group”.  ICANN has also created the “Public Experts Group” which is comprised of 4 individuals that ICANN has deemed “respectable” to appoint 7 people onto the key decision making “Coordination Group”.
>
> ICANN Board Will Exclusively Decide Which Improvements to Accept
>
> All one really needs to know is that under ICANN’s plan, its board may adopt or reject any recommendation of this accountability effort at its own option.  So despite widespread calls for independent accountability measures from the community, ICANN board will make all final decisions about what accountability improvements may actually be made.  Under ICANN’s plan, recommendations that call for the board to operate in a more transparent manner could be rejected by the board for example.  A plan for more self-policing does not provide confidence that meaningful accountability reform will result from this effort, unfortunately.
>
> ICANN Board Will Exclusively Develop Groups’ Charters
>
> Since the power to decide which of the groups’ recommendations are implemented was not enough control over this effort for ICANN’s board, the plan further provides for the board to be in total control of the development of the charters under which the accountability groups will operate.   Not exactly “bottom up” operations.   Nothing gets in that the board doesn’t want, and nothing coming out will be adopted that the board doesn’t approve.
>
> Group Members Include Several Obliged to Protect ICANN
>
> The Coordination Group, which is empowered with prioritizing issues and recommending solutions, is far too heavily stacked with individuals who are beholden to ICANN for their appointment or are a representatives of the organization and under a legal obligation to always act in the best interests of the corporation.  Besides the stakeholders who represent communities ICANN was established to serve, ICANN has installed a staff member, which management confirmed would be one of ICANN’s lawyers, onto the Coordination Group.  ICANN has also decided that a board member should additionally serve as a liaison on the Coordination Group.  Both the ICANN board member and ICANN staff lawyer are under strict legal obligations to protect the corporation under California law by virtue of their fiduciary role with respect to the organization and attending legal obligations.  So there are at least two members of the Coordination Group with strong incentives to avoid finding any fault with the or
 g
anization or need for serious improvement.  ICANN additionally plans to appoint someone who is an “expert on the ATRT process” (aka “ICANN insider”) to the Coordination Group.
>
> What this process highlights is that the public’s interest to rigorously pursue accountability improvements in a global governance organization clashes with hard and cold corporate legal obligations to protect the corporation.  ICANN’s board, senior staff, and lawyers hold obligations under California law to always act in the best interests of the corporation – not the public interest.   This means they can’t admit mistakes, and will be legally obligated to mitigate ICANN’s responsibility for any wrongdoing.  Board member and lawyer “whistle blowers” are generally illegal in California.   Given reports of disgruntled ex-ICANN board members receiving cease and desist letters citing this legal obligation to keep quiet, there is little incentive for these group members to push for a thorough and rigorous examination of ICANN’s accountability shortcomings within the group.
>
> Anti-Democratic: Comprised too Heavily of Non-Stakeholder “Advisors”
>
> As a global public governance institution, ICANN has an obligation to aspire to and operate in accordance with democratic principles for it to have any legitimacy to govern.   Unfortunately this plan takes ICANN and its unique model of multi-stakeholder governance several steps away from “democratic”, in which decisions are made by the stakeholders, those impacted by the decisions -- and more towards a top-down corporate structure that operates in the interest of the private organization, instead of the public interest.
>
> ICANN has installed (up to) 7 “advisors” to additionally serve on the Coordination Group, who are not stakeholders, but should provide expertise on specific issues related to accountability.  The two main problems with this plan is that any external “advisors” should be selected by a legitimate bottom-up process, and should serve, in fact, in an “advisory” role -- and not in a decision making role.  The non-democratic “advisors” is another sign from ICANN that it doesn’t actually trust bottom-up governance, but instead relies heavily on hand-picked “experts” to temper the will of the stakeholders – those who are subject to ICANN’s policies.  No rationale was provided by ICANN for why it needs so many non-stakeholder decision makers in proportion to actual stakeholders given democratic principles of self-governance.
>
> As noted, these non-stakeholder “advisors” shall be appointed by 4 individuals that ICANN has deemed “respectable” (which means not likely to cause any trouble for the organization), who together ICANN calls “the Public Experts Group”.  Despite ICANN’s attempt at slight-of-hand regarding the organization’s unacceptable appointment of these “advisors” (shifting from board to staff appointment, but still ICANN-appointed), these appointments are not truly independent if they were selected by someone that ICANN senior management had to approve in the first place.  The source of authority (the corporation, not the bottom-up public) is still the same in both cases and illegitimate for being anti-democratic.  The community should be making these appointments, especially given the organization’s inherent conflict of interest in the underlying issue.
>
> Decision Making Roles Mislabeled as Advisory Roles in ICANN Plan
>
> Furthermore, they are not truly “advisors” used for “specific expertise”, but rather are appointments empowered to make decisions about final recommendations.  Those are entirely different roles with different sources of authority.  Democratic values require “advisors” to in fact serve in an “advisory” role, and not in a decisional role, which is reserved for stakeholders – those governed by the decisions this group makes.  Experts are certainly welcome and should be utilized in a true advisory role.   It is simply dishonest for ICANN to label people “advisors” while empowering them to be key decision makers in the process.
>
> ICANN Decided It is the Primary Interest to be Served by the ICANN Plan
>
> It was a remarkable move for ICANN to so openly claim in its plan that its own corporate interest supersedes the interest of the Internet community that the organization was established to serve.  ICANN boldly stated in its “analysis of comments” that ICANN itself is a stakeholder in this process as a holder of resources, and as such is entitled to be the predominant decisional point and interest served in this effort.
>
> With this plan ICANN has officially usurped the authority of those stakeholders that the organization is supposed to serve.  The public interest must yield to the organization’s separate interest.   ICANN has become an “end” in and of itself with a blank checkbook and unbounded ambition.
>
> III.  Conclusion: Search For True ICANN Accountability Must Move Elsewhere
>
> Despite the overwhelming call for the community creation of an independent accountability process, board-controlled toothless, self-policing is all ICANN senior management will permit with this effort.  The community will have to come together and build a plan of its own in order to get the much needed accountability improvements that are necessary for the management of critical Internet resources.  Certainly some painless minor cosmetic type improvements could be achieved with ICANN’s plan, but the painful efforts required to achieve meaningful accountability from ICANN will have to move to another forum, outside of ICANN’s control.
>
> Addendum:  ICANN Accountability Discussion at IGF 2014
>
> We can take a closer look at the ICANN accountability crisis at the United Nations Internet Governance Forum (IGF), which meets in Istanbul from 2-5 September 2014 to explore Internet governance issues.  A panel discussion to tackle the issue of ICANN accountability will be held on Wednesday, 3 September from 9:00 – 10:30 a.m. in Istanbul (9:00am PDT), with online remote participation available.
>
> The IGF workshop panelists include Larry Strictling of the US NTIA, Pat Kane of Verisign, ICANN Board Member Gonzalo Navarro, Carlos Afonso of CGI.br, Avri Doria, Jordan Carter of InternetNZ, and ICANN Ombudsman Chris LaHatte.  The IGF workshop #23 entitled “Accountability in the ICANN Multi-Stakeholder Governance Regime” is moderated by Robin Gross and co-sponsored by IP Justice, CGI.br, the Internet Governance Project, the Public Interest Registry, the Internet Commerce Association, and InternetNZ.   David Cake of Electronic Frontiers Australia is the remote participation moderator for this IGF session, which will be held in the IGF venue room #2.
>
>   More information on this IGF Workshop #23 is available here.
>
> http://ipjustice.org/wp/2014/08/21/igf-2014-workshop-23-accountability-in-the-icann-multi-stakeholder-governance-regime/
>

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From pouzin at well.com  Thu Aug 21 20:36:34 2014
From: pouzin at well.com (Louis Pouzin (well))
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 02:36:34 +0200
Subject: [governance] Quelle Suprise! ICANN's Accountability Plan Gives
 ICANN Board Total Control
In-Reply-To: <53F67F0D.8070006@cafonso.ca>
References: <D2FB6ACF-6098-4A55-9C52-8D93BC256BBD@ipjustice.org> <53F67F0D.8070006@cafonso.ca>
Message-ID: <CA+EjHYpvxBZ_fRkGXnDYdFCh449xw1J+BisfEUTKjHQqojydbw@mail.gmail.com>

Congrats Robin for this thorough and so well written report.

Actually, ICANN stance is none of a surprise. It's been stinking for so
long.

Let it's protector, the USG, deal with it for US consumption. And let us,
other nations, move into a UN space to work out a democratic system.
 .
Louis.
- - -

On 08/21/2014 07:57 PM, Robin Gross wrote:
>
>> Here's my evaluation of ICANN's recently announced plan to address the
>> accountability crisis at the organization.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Robin
>> http://ipjustice.org/wp/2014/08/21/quelle-suprise-icann's-
>> accountability-plan-gives-icann-board-total-control-
>> icann-limits-accountability-improvement-measures-to-
>> toothless-self-policing/
>>
>> Quelle Suprise!  ICANN's Accountability Plan Gives ICANN Board Total
>> Control
>>
>> ICANN Limits Accountability Improvement Measures to Toothless
>> Self-Policing
>>
>> By Robin Gross
>>
>>
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From pouzin at well.com  Fri Aug 22 00:21:12 2014
From: pouzin at well.com (Louis Pouzin (well))
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 06:21:12 +0200
Subject: [governance] Quelle Suprise! ICANN's Accountability Plan Gives
 ICANN Board Total Control
In-Reply-To: <53F67F0D.8070006@cafonso.ca>
References: <D2FB6ACF-6098-4A55-9C52-8D93BC256BBD@ipjustice.org> <53F67F0D.8070006@cafonso.ca>
Message-ID: <CA+EjHYpXqjhrcVUDBNG1rbY0N4Q5Kg-WQ2YO8oGhWFQqJh9NdQ@mail.gmail.com>

A specially lucid view on ICANN corruption.

Letter to Congress from ex-ICANN Board Member Karl Auerbach
http://cavebear.com/docs/ntia-icann-2014-others.pdf
 .
Louis
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From chinmayiarun at gmail.com  Fri Aug 22 00:59:24 2014
From: chinmayiarun at gmail.com (Chinmayi Arun)
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 10:29:24 +0530
Subject: [governance] Why we are boycotting the IGF (by Yaman Akdeniz and
 Kerem Altiparmak)
Message-ID: <CACu5V_ug3HTEdYJ1z5M9Mw4zdXbz2ALbEjLTRDjhgiqp_V1QfQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear All,

I just ran into this piece
<http://www.indexoncensorship.org/2014/08/boycotting-internet-governance-forum/>
by Yaman Akdeniz and Kerem Altiparmak. Civil society folks who will be at
the IGF this year may find it interesting- it flags significant
 internet-related concerns in Turkey.

Best,
Chinmayi
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From pouzin at well.com  Fri Aug 22 01:33:15 2014
From: pouzin at well.com (Louis Pouzin (well))
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 07:33:15 +0200
Subject: [governance] Why we are boycotting the IGF (by Yaman Akdeniz
 and Kerem Altiparmak)
In-Reply-To: <CA+EjHYrBEk3n=rowDq2k0nwQvvv-Z4AudAqG7zKHWmVbmBQNDQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACu5V_ug3HTEdYJ1z5M9Mw4zdXbz2ALbEjLTRDjhgiqp_V1QfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+EjHYrBEk3n=rowDq2k0nwQvvv-Z4AudAqG7zKHWmVbmBQNDQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+EjHYp2vgEShaaEOLOHNjkLAZCif7N9ksb3RQafsQRO8vM34g@mail.gmail.com>

Instead of boycotting the IGF they could boycott using the internet.
Louis
- - -

>
> On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 6:59 AM, Chinmayi Arun <chinmayiarun at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> I just ran into this piece
>> <http://www.indexoncensorship.org/2014/08/boycotting-internet-governance-forum/>
>> by Yaman Akdeniz and Kerem Altiparmak. Civil society folks who will be at
>> the IGF this year may find it interesting- it flags significant
>>  internet-related concerns in Turkey.
>>
>> Best,
>> Chinmayi
>>
>>
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From parminder at itforchange.net  Fri Aug 22 01:41:03 2014
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:11:03 +0530
Subject: [governance] Why we are boycotting the IGF (by Yaman Akdeniz
 and Kerem Altiparmak)
In-Reply-To: <CACu5V_ug3HTEdYJ1z5M9Mw4zdXbz2ALbEjLTRDjhgiqp_V1QfQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACu5V_ug3HTEdYJ1z5M9Mw4zdXbz2ALbEjLTRDjhgiqp_V1QfQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53F6D7EF.2030506@itforchange.net>


This is serious, and civil society groups should issue a statement in 
support, preferably on the venue during the IGF days.. parminder


On Friday 22 August 2014 10:29 AM, Chinmayi Arun wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> I just ran into this piece 
> <http://www.indexoncensorship.org/2014/08/boycotting-internet-governance-forum/> 
> by Yaman Akdeniz and Kerem Altiparmak. Civil society folks who will be 
> at the IGF this year may find it interesting- it flags significant 
>  internet-related concerns in Turkey.
>
> Best,
> Chinmayi

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From isolatedn at gmail.com  Fri Aug 22 02:03:09 2014
From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian M)
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:33:09 +0530
Subject: [governance] Why we are boycotting the IGF (by Yaman Akdeniz
 and Kerem Altiparmak)
In-Reply-To: <53F6D7EF.2030506@itforchange.net>
References: <CACu5V_ug3HTEdYJ1z5M9Mw4zdXbz2ALbEjLTRDjhgiqp_V1QfQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<53F6D7EF.2030506@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <CAHyAo0Hyy1i+HtqB1L6=jAT4DXb=Qo_rzNF4-1U11K=bJ+-knQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Parminder

Yes, I fully support your idea of a Civil Society statement against
Government censorship of Internet, with laws such as controversial Internet
Law No 5651
<http://www.indexoncensorship.org/2014/02/amendments-internet-law-approved-turkish-parliament-remain-murky/>.
In this instance, "the law is ostensibly aimed to protect children from
harmful content, from the very beginning it has been used to prevent
adults’ access to information" so the focus of the statement could be
against the exploitation of of Security concerns of popular appeal so as to
bring in unfair censorship laws that could be abused for control over
citizens, in Turkey, in United States, India, China, Pakistan and Europe
and elsewhere. The Civil Society statement could be emphatically against
blocking Internet and against unbalanced directives to Social Media and
oppression of free speech in all the free world.

Civil Society could also invite Yaman Akdeniz & Kerem Altiparmak to take
part to emphasize their views rather than boycott.

Thank you.





Sivasubramanian M <https://www.facebook.com/sivasubramanian.muthusamy>



On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 11:11 AM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
wrote:

>
> This is serious, and civil society groups should issue a statement in
> support, preferably on the venue during the IGF days.. parminder
>
>
>  On Friday 22 August 2014 10:29 AM, Chinmayi Arun wrote:
>
> Dear All,
>
>  I just ran into this piece
> <http://www.indexoncensorship.org/2014/08/boycotting-internet-governance-forum/>
> by Yaman Akdeniz and Kerem Altiparmak. Civil society folks who will be at
> the IGF this year may find it interesting- it flags significant
>  internet-related concerns in Turkey.
>
>  Best,
> Chinmayi
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
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From parminder at itforchange.net  Fri Aug 22 02:38:12 2014
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 12:08:12 +0530
Subject: [governance] Quelle Suprise! ICANN's Accountability Plan Gives
 ICANN Board Total Control
In-Reply-To: <CA+EjHYpXqjhrcVUDBNG1rbY0N4Q5Kg-WQ2YO8oGhWFQqJh9NdQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D2FB6ACF-6098-4A55-9C52-8D93BC256BBD@ipjustice.org> <53F67F0D.8070006@cafonso.ca> <CA+EjHYpXqjhrcVUDBNG1rbY0N4Q5Kg-WQ2YO8oGhWFQqJh9NdQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53F6E554.8090706@itforchange.net>


It was always clear that the real issue was about the oversight of ICANN 
- at least since the WSIS, if not before... As Karl also says, it is 
pure deception that the core oversight issue has somehow been 
transformed into a series of different, hardly comprehensible, issues. 
One can understand why the US and ICANN would like to exercise such 
deception. What is far more difficult to understand is why should so 
many of us be ready to be so deceived, and  raise not a wiff protest 
against this elaborate shenanigans of the so called IANA transition and 
the related stuff.

parminder


On Friday 22 August 2014 09:51 AM, Louis Pouzin (well) wrote:
> A specially lucid view on ICANN corruption.
>
> Letter to Congress from ex-ICANN Board Member Karl Auerbach
> http://cavebear.com/docs/ntia-icann-2014-others.pdf
>  .
> Louis

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From subi.igp at gmail.com  Fri Aug 22 07:20:05 2014
From: subi.igp at gmail.com (Subi Chaturvedi)
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 16:50:05 +0530
Subject: [governance] The #netgov icebucket challenge-Call for comments -
 Shape IGF Best Practices!
Message-ID: <CAFfuWVnoxJJ6FbEtEmE9uhD9nMAKzVDmEXAWQTrH=9rZQJiW=g@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,

I thank Jeremy for raising this. You will recall that he has shared
information about the Best Practice Forum on enhancing multistakeholder
participation. And has pointed out gaps in engagement. The IGF secretariat
has just issued a call for inputs on BPFs draft.  This is a significant
step forward and one of the many ways in which the IGF is trying to respond
to community inputs which have crystalised over the last year for
strengthening the IGF and the IGF itself evolving in response to the
changing internet ecosystem.

This is important, also because the Tunis agenda, though for many may
remain contested but is still largely the genesis of what we do at IGF. And
it is this agenda which mandates the IGF to build capacity especially for
developing countries and emerging economies.

At the moment we have about 40 national and regional initiatives. We want
to see more. There are also important issues which need mapping and urgent
responses for new users and the growing community of early adapters.

During the first meeting of the MAG early this year there was a call by
some of us to work towards this goal. Of responding towards building the
knowledge agenda. And it was suggested with community inputs at the Paris
consultation, ISOC working closely with and through the MAG will provide
leadership in mapping and diseminating Best practices. Our colleague
Constance has been leading this effort with valuable inputs coming from the
different stakeholder groups.

This is to share with you, that the IGF Secretariat just issued a call for
comments on the draft IGF Best Practices. All stakeholders are invited to
provide input by by 5 September 2014 on the following themes:

1.     Developing meaningful multistakeholder participation mechanisms

2.     Regulation and mitigation of unwanted communications (e.g. "spam")

3.     Establishing and supporting Computer Emergency Response Teams
(CERTs) for Internet security

4.     Creating an enabling environment for the development of local content

5.     Best practices for online child protection

You can also explore resources for each issue (lead experts, background
documentation, etc.), available on the IGF Best Practices homepage:
http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/best-practice-forums

We encourage you to take an active part in this opportunity to shape
concrete outcomes of IGF 2014!

More about the process:
Over the past weeks, communities gathering experts from government,
business, Civil Society, and the academic and technical communities, have
been working through open mailing lists and online virtual meetings on IGF
Best Practices.

The discussion was documented by independent experts that will feed into
five 90 minute Forums in Istanbul and that will in turn report into a Best
Practices Main Session.  A summary booklet on each Best Practices theme is
the intended outcome. The drafts are open for comments until 5 September
and will be published after the IGF 2014 meeting.

Read more about the IGF: http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/

Please spread the word through your networks!

A big thank you to all who have already contributed and those who haven't
yet,  urge you to send in your inputs about these very critical themes.
While negotiated outcomes are complex and come with their own set of
challenges,  sure there are advantages but this is an opportunity to create
and ecosystem bottom up through your contributions and participation with
outcomes and specific take aways at the IGF 2014.
I thank you for your time. Constance Bommelaer for not not dropping the
ball and providing excellent leadership.
For #netgov this is our icebucket. Pour and spread the word.

Best regards,

Subi Chaturvedi
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From anja at internetdemocracy.in  Fri Aug 22 09:06:30 2014
From: anja at internetdemocracy.in (Anja Kovacs)
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 18:36:30 +0530
Subject: [governance] Closing ceremony - CS speaker - URGENT
In-Reply-To: <CA+EjHYr8dQKN6t-5zjyo-GNxH5ugyqar3JJmrHuOANuP8EnmKg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMz5XN5yzE0i7s=L=-Ye3_eoWj8+EhSVuEV4srqzqbs_Yzusfw@mail.gmail.com>
	<53F61BBD.6010109@itforchange.net>
	<CA+EjHYr8dQKN6t-5zjyo-GNxH5ugyqar3JJmrHuOANuP8EnmKg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJqNAHBTwvsioi9J81b_msO122s6gSfa91p-Z1-Rx=ziDR4aMg@mail.gmail.com>

On the Best Bits email list, the name of Dr Burcu Kilic, was proposed, who
works for Public Citizen mainly on trade and access to
medicines issues.  She is Turkish so she has a good perspective on the
political
situation there. Several people on the BB list know her well and have
worked with her, and there was widespread support for her nomination (more
than fifteen messages). Burcu would be willing to serve if nominated.

Perhaps it is wortwhile for IGC to consider nominating Burcu as well, and
maybe even only her (there were no other nominations on the BB list
either), as this would make maximise the chances that the voices and
concerns of Turkish CS get heard within the IGF as well. So far, the space
provided is extremely limited.

If we propose the same name, and at the same time note that counter the
tradition, we were not consulted on the name of the person for the opening
ceremony (I agree with Parminder that we should do so, though I also agree
that we're very lucky to have Deirdre!), we might actually be able to get
this through.

Thanks and best,
Anja





On 21 August 2014 23:33, Louis Pouzin (well) <pouzin at well.com> wrote:

> Propaganda: bottom-up.
> Reality: top-down
> What's new ?
>
> Luckily Deirdre is a fine choice.
>
> Louis
> - - -
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 6:18 PM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
> wrote:
>
>>  I am all for Dierdre for the opening ceremony, but one thing I could
>> not understand.
>>
>> How was the selection for opening ceremony slot made by MAG (or whoever
>> made it), but that of closing ceremony passed to CS groups to give
>> nominations for... Isnt is it a bit ad hoc, and I think civil society
>> should ask questions about ad hoc and unexplained processes of public
>> institutions..
>>
>> parminder
>>
>>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
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>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
Dr. Anja Kovacs
The Internet Democracy Project

+91 9899028053 | @anjakovacs
www.internetdemocracy.in
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From anja at internetdemocracy.in  Fri Aug 22 09:10:41 2014
From: anja at internetdemocracy.in (Anja Kovacs)
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 18:40:41 +0530
Subject: [governance] Opening cermony
In-Reply-To: <CAHj_20hhKRKk1J=xK8m1em+KLbf63XZMVV=oPi2L=nC-Q7AmHg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMz5XN7=MQWf7kpNu1oSQbzvL6-gJAgnrFPhK2a9NwMhc7u-GQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHj_20hAA41aNaFMeNi_KiyA1JiNi=CGHwjJ3oWYPHhihEo51Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMz5XN610LghRr2f87W+=kahm5S3VYBWqV=ViwtY6S-V9NvnKA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHj_20hhKRKk1J=xK8m1em+KLbf63XZMVV=oPi2L=nC-Q7AmHg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJqNAHC7DkPPsZRs2wwo5sEh8kS6GwnnkeC+sA93YmUv_VUAAA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Deirdre,

Many suggestions already, but may I propose that you link the concern for
human rights specifically to what is happening in Turkey? The Index on
Censorship article Chinmayi posted earlier today gives a good overview.
Seeing that it seems none of the workshops proposed by Turkish activists
were accepted for this year's IGF, I think it is important that we send out
a strong signal of solidarity and raise their concerns as often as we can.

And very happy to have you as our opening speaker!

Many thanks,


On 21 August 2014 19:35, Baudouin SCHOMBE <b.schombe at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks De for rectification, so we still thinking about IGF in future
>
> *SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN*
> *REPRESENTANT  TICAFRICA ET CYBERVILLAGE at FRICA/RDC*
>
> *COORDINATION NATIONALE CAFECCOORDINATION NATIONALE REPRONTIC*
>
> Téléphone mobile:+243998983491/+243813684512
> email                  : b.schombe at gmail.com
> skype                 : b.schombe
> blog                    : http://akimambo.unblog.fr
>
>
>
>
>
> 2014-08-21 15:19 GMT+02:00 Deirdre Williams <williams.deirdre at gmail.com>:
>
> Dear Baudoin,
>> It's De not Nnenna, but I'll take that as an ENORMOUS vote of confidence.
>> Thank you :-) And thank you for the suggestions.
>> De
>>
>>
>> On 21 August 2014 05:31, Baudouin SCHOMBE <b.schombe at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Nnenna,
>>>
>>> IGF over time becomes a platform for increasingly important as the
>>> global, regional and subregional levels.
>>>
>>> It is important that the IGF must very well established in each country respecting
>>> the multi-stakeholder approach. IGF nationally is the foundation of the
>>> edifice on which consolidates the IGF at the sub regional, regional and
>>> global levels. It is here also that all local actors can talk and
>>> discuss face to face.
>>>
>>> It is also important that the debate on the NetMundial intensifies and
>>> he emerges a consensus reading on "NetMundial" initiative and its
>>> interaction with IGF.
>>>
>>> It will emphasize the need for the participation of African media in all
>>> IGF and consider the training and the level of the media has on the IGF
>>> process at all levels.
>>>
>>>
>>> *SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN*
>>> *REPRESENTANT  TICAFRICA ET CYBERVILLAGE at FRICA/RDC*
>>>
>>> *COORDINATION NATIONALE CAFECCOORDINATION NATIONALE REPRONTIC*
>>>
>>> Téléphone mobile:+243998983491/+243813684512
>>> email                  : b.schombe at gmail.com
>>> skype                 : b.schombe
>>> blog                    : http://akimambo.unblog.fr
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2014-08-19 15:41 GMT+02:00 Deirdre Williams <williams.deirdre at gmail.com>
>>> :
>>>
>>>>  Dear Colleagues,
>>>> Yesterday I heard that I have been selected by the  MAG  to make the
>>>> civil society presentation at the opening ceremony. Please send me your
>>>> suggestions of topics for inclusion so that, as far as it's possible in
>>>> such a short time, I can say what all of us want to be said.
>>>> The IGC and Bestbits are not all of civil society;please help me to as
>>>> large a view as possible by passing on this message to others in as wide a
>>>> reach as possible.
>>>> Thank you
>>>> Deirdre Williams
>>>> Co-coordinator, IG Caucua.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> “The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir
>>>> William Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
>>>>
>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>>
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>>>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
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>>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>>
>>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> “The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
>> Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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>>
>>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
Dr. Anja Kovacs
The Internet Democracy Project

+91 9899028053 | @anjakovacs
www.internetdemocracy.in
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From williams.deirdre at gmail.com  Fri Aug 22 09:21:54 2014
From: williams.deirdre at gmail.com (Deirdre Williams)
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 09:21:54 -0400
Subject: [governance] Opening cermony
In-Reply-To: <CAJqNAHC7DkPPsZRs2wwo5sEh8kS6GwnnkeC+sA93YmUv_VUAAA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMz5XN7=MQWf7kpNu1oSQbzvL6-gJAgnrFPhK2a9NwMhc7u-GQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHj_20hAA41aNaFMeNi_KiyA1JiNi=CGHwjJ3oWYPHhihEo51Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMz5XN610LghRr2f87W+=kahm5S3VYBWqV=ViwtY6S-V9NvnKA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHj_20hhKRKk1J=xK8m1em+KLbf63XZMVV=oPi2L=nC-Q7AmHg@mail.gmail.com> <CAJqNAHC7DkPPsZRs2wwo5sEh8kS6GwnnkeC+sA93YmUv_VUAAA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMz5XN5j2p0jKMf2MGohXQbB12-kpoM+D0PuiN3m8s3G3zPShw@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you Anja
Deirdre


On 22 August 2014 09:10, Anja Kovacs <anja at internetdemocracy.in> wrote:

> Dear Deirdre,
>
> Many suggestions already, but may I propose that you link the concern for
> human rights specifically to what is happening in Turkey? The Index on
> Censorship article Chinmayi posted earlier today gives a good overview.
> Seeing that it seems none of the workshops proposed by Turkish activists
> were accepted for this year's IGF, I think it is important that we send out
> a strong signal of solidarity and raise their concerns as often as we can.
>
> And very happy to have you as our opening speaker!
>
> Many thanks,
>
>
> On 21 August 2014 19:35, Baudouin SCHOMBE <b.schombe at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks De for rectification, so we still thinking about IGF in future
>>
>> *SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN*
>> *REPRESENTANT  TICAFRICA ET CYBERVILLAGE at FRICA/RDC*
>>
>> *COORDINATION NATIONALE CAFECCOORDINATION NATIONALE REPRONTIC*
>>
>> Téléphone mobile:+243998983491/+243813684512
>> email                  : b.schombe at gmail.com
>> skype                 : b.schombe
>> blog                    : http://akimambo.unblog.fr
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2014-08-21 15:19 GMT+02:00 Deirdre Williams <williams.deirdre at gmail.com>:
>>
>> Dear Baudoin,
>>> It's De not Nnenna, but I'll take that as an ENORMOUS vote of
>>> confidence. Thank you :-) And thank you for the suggestions.
>>> De
>>>
>>>
>>> On 21 August 2014 05:31, Baudouin SCHOMBE <b.schombe at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Nnenna,
>>>>
>>>> IGF over time becomes a platform for increasingly important as the
>>>> global, regional and subregional levels.
>>>>
>>>> It is important that the IGF must very well established in each country respecting
>>>> the multi-stakeholder approach. IGF nationally is the foundation of the
>>>> edifice on which consolidates the IGF at the sub regional, regional and
>>>> global levels. It is here also that all local actors can talk and
>>>> discuss face to face.
>>>>
>>>> It is also important that the debate on the NetMundial intensifies and
>>>> he emerges a consensus reading on "NetMundial" initiative and its
>>>> interaction with IGF.
>>>>
>>>> It will emphasize the need for the participation of African media in
>>>> all IGF and consider the training and the level of the media has on the
>>>> IGF process at all levels.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN*
>>>> *REPRESENTANT  TICAFRICA ET CYBERVILLAGE at FRICA/RDC*
>>>>
>>>> *COORDINATION NATIONALE CAFECCOORDINATION NATIONALE REPRONTIC*
>>>>
>>>> Téléphone mobile:+243998983491/+243813684512
>>>> email                  : b.schombe at gmail.com
>>>> skype                 : b.schombe
>>>> blog                    : http://akimambo.unblog.fr
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2014-08-19 15:41 GMT+02:00 Deirdre Williams <williams.deirdre at gmail.com
>>>> >:
>>>>
>>>>>  Dear Colleagues,
>>>>> Yesterday I heard that I have been selected by the  MAG  to make the
>>>>> civil society presentation at the opening ceremony. Please send me your
>>>>> suggestions of topics for inclusion so that, as far as it's possible in
>>>>> such a short time, I can say what all of us want to be said.
>>>>> The IGC and Bestbits are not all of civil society;please help me to as
>>>>> large a view as possible by passing on this message to others in as wide a
>>>>> reach as possible.
>>>>> Thank you
>>>>> Deirdre Williams
>>>>> Co-coordinator, IG Caucua.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> “The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir
>>>>> William Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
>>>>>
>>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>>>
>>>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>>>
>>>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> “The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir
>>> William Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Anja Kovacs
> The Internet Democracy Project
>
> +91 9899028053 | @anjakovacs
> www.internetdemocracy.in
>



-- 
“The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
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____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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To be removed from the list, visit:
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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From kichango at gmail.com  Fri Aug 22 09:38:50 2014
From: kichango at gmail.com (Mawaki Chango)
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 13:38:50 +0000
Subject: [governance] Closing ceremony - CS speaker - URGENT
In-Reply-To: <CAJqNAHBTwvsioi9J81b_msO122s6gSfa91p-Z1-Rx=ziDR4aMg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMz5XN5yzE0i7s=L=-Ye3_eoWj8+EhSVuEV4srqzqbs_Yzusfw@mail.gmail.com>
 <53F61BBD.6010109@itforchange.net> <CA+EjHYr8dQKN6t-5zjyo-GNxH5ugyqar3JJmrHuOANuP8EnmKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJqNAHBTwvsioi9J81b_msO122s6gSfa91p-Z1-Rx=ziDR4aMg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACTo+v9wqp_xs75EhyZLtGdRSTsx1k1O_-GnnHTmG2QETb_1XQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Anja,

On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Anja Kovacs <anja at internetdemocracy.in>
wrote:

>
> Perhaps it is wortwhile for IGC to consider nominating Burcu as well, and
> maybe even only her (there were no other nominations on the BB list
> either),
>

In fact, there are other nominations received and being considered by the
CS coordination committee (hoping that's the correct name, which I'm still
not used to despite being the IGC liaison in that committee.) But it's also
true that Burcu Kilic has a lot of support.

Now, what I'm confused about is this: Are we still within the time for
submitting name from IGC? I have to check back the timeline given by De in
an earlier message. Because the above committee is currently running a
process to short list the nominees, which would be at odds with the IGC
timeline for input in that process assuming nomination is still open here.
Thanks,

Mawaki

> as this would make maximise the chances that the voices and concerns of
> Turkish CS get heard within the IGF as well. So far, the space provided is
> extremely limited.
>
> If we propose the same name, and at the same time note that counter the
> tradition, we were not consulted on the name of the person for the opening
> ceremony (I agree with Parminder that we should do so, though I also agree
> that we're very lucky to have Deirdre!), we might actually be able to get
> this through.
>
> Thanks and best,
> Anja
>
>
>
>
>
>  On 21 August 2014 23:33, Louis Pouzin (well) <pouzin at well.com> wrote:
>
>>  Propaganda: bottom-up.
>> Reality: top-down
>> What's new ?
>>
>> Luckily Deirdre is a fine choice.
>>
>> Louis
>> - - -
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 6:18 PM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>  I am all for Dierdre for the opening ceremony, but one thing I could
>>> not understand.
>>>
>>> How was the selection for opening ceremony slot made by MAG (or whoever
>>> made it), but that of closing ceremony passed to CS groups to give
>>> nominations for... Isnt is it a bit ad hoc, and I think civil society
>>> should ask questions about ad hoc and unexplained processes of public
>>> institutions..
>>>
>>> parminder
>>>
>>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Anja Kovacs
> The Internet Democracy Project
>
> +91 9899028053 | @anjakovacs
> www.internetdemocracy.in
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
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____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From kichango at gmail.com  Fri Aug 22 09:45:33 2014
From: kichango at gmail.com (Mawaki Chango)
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 13:45:33 +0000
Subject: [governance] Closing ceremony - CS speaker - URGENT
In-Reply-To: <CACTo+v9wqp_xs75EhyZLtGdRSTsx1k1O_-GnnHTmG2QETb_1XQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMz5XN5yzE0i7s=L=-Ye3_eoWj8+EhSVuEV4srqzqbs_Yzusfw@mail.gmail.com>
 <53F61BBD.6010109@itforchange.net> <CA+EjHYr8dQKN6t-5zjyo-GNxH5ugyqar3JJmrHuOANuP8EnmKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJqNAHBTwvsioi9J81b_msO122s6gSfa91p-Z1-Rx=ziDR4aMg@mail.gmail.com> <CACTo+v9wqp_xs75EhyZLtGdRSTsx1k1O_-GnnHTmG2QETb_1XQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACTo+v_a9PuViOKHU+ZhK5Rs8+H99o8Q9qjek3ddmRao47MrAQ@mail.gmail.com>

Ok, from what I see from De's call for nomination, the "next 24 hours" have
already ran out since Aug. 20 (my time) which is the date of the post.
I would guess some of the IGC nominees are among the names being considered
right now for short list by the CS committee.
Best,

Mawaki


On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Mawaki Chango <kichango at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Anja,
>
> On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Anja Kovacs <anja at internetdemocracy.in>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Perhaps it is wortwhile for IGC to consider nominating Burcu as well, and
>> maybe even only her (there were no other nominations on the BB list
>> either),
>>
>
> In fact, there are other nominations received and being considered by the
> CS coordination committee (hoping that's the correct name, which I'm still
> not used to despite being the IGC liaison in that committee.) But it's also
> true that Burcu Kilic has a lot of support.
>
> Now, what I'm confused about is this: Are we still within the time for
> submitting name from IGC? I have to check back the timeline given by De in
> an earlier message. Because the above committee is currently running a
> process to short list the nominees, which would be at odds with the IGC
> timeline for input in that process assuming nomination is still open here.
> Thanks,
>
> Mawaki
>
>> as this would make maximise the chances that the voices and concerns of
>> Turkish CS get heard within the IGF as well. So far, the space provided is
>> extremely limited.
>>
>> If we propose the same name, and at the same time note that counter the
>> tradition, we were not consulted on the name of the person for the opening
>> ceremony (I agree with Parminder that we should do so, though I also agree
>> that we're very lucky to have Deirdre!), we might actually be able to get
>> this through.
>>
>> Thanks and best,
>> Anja
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  On 21 August 2014 23:33, Louis Pouzin (well) <pouzin at well.com> wrote:
>>
>>>  Propaganda: bottom-up.
>>> Reality: top-down
>>> What's new ?
>>>
>>> Luckily Deirdre is a fine choice.
>>>
>>> Louis
>>> - - -
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 6:18 PM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>  I am all for Dierdre for the opening ceremony, but one thing I could
>>>> not understand.
>>>>
>>>> How was the selection for opening ceremony slot made by MAG (or whoever
>>>> made it), but that of closing ceremony passed to CS groups to give
>>>> nominations for... Isnt is it a bit ad hoc, and I think civil society
>>>> should ask questions about ad hoc and unexplained processes of public
>>>> institutions..
>>>>
>>>> parminder
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dr. Anja Kovacs
>> The Internet Democracy Project
>>
>> +91 9899028053 | @anjakovacs
>> www.internetdemocracy.in
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>
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____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From williams.deirdre at gmail.com  Fri Aug 22 11:24:33 2014
From: williams.deirdre at gmail.com (Deirdre Williams)
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:24:33 -0400
Subject: [governance] IGC Funds
Message-ID: <CAMz5XN6TtWd2pUoYdZGo3OWpL6YfufdUjzYOR2LOhKsBtvpaMA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,
Ever since the handover in January/February paying the hosting bill for the
IGC website has been a problem.
The first bill found me in London taking care of my daughter and new
grandson. When the payment process wouldn't work I assumed that I was
distracted and making mistakes, so I paid the bill from my own funds.
The second time the same thing happened with the same result - Paypal
refused to release the funds, even though there was more than enough
available to pay, so I paid myself.
I was consulting with Jeremy all of the time because he initially set up
the Paypal account. The second time we decided that the account needed a
credit card to back it. Jeremy generously used his card. For reasons
connected with the Paypal account mine wasn't acceptable.
The latest bill arrived earlier this month. This time Paypal wanted
verification to a cell phone number, but of course it wanted to use
Jeremy's number, and there was no way we could find to change the number.
Then we thought that I could open a new IGC account and Jeremy could
transfer the funds - except that Paypal here only allows you to send money,
not to receive payments.
So - Jeremy has now transferred all of the IGC fund to Evorack, the
webhosting service, as a credit. When the hosting bill arrives the co-cos
simply need to release the funds in payment.. The credit is enough to cover
several years of hosting.
This is not a very satisfactory solution but it was the best that we could
manage. Please accept the payments that I made as a general contribution to
the cause:-)
I am furious with Paypal for causing so much grief. I assume that the
arrangement worked for Norbert and Sala? So why not for me?
If anyone on the list has suggestions for a more efficient and less painful
way of managing funds that the IGC might have from time to time then I'm
sure we would all be very grateful to hear about it.
I hope that this is a satisfactory explanation, but please ask if you need
any clarification.
I am SO relieved to have escaped from Paypal!
Best wishes
Deirdre


-- 
“The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
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____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
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For all other list information and functions, see:
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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From jhuns at vt.edu  Fri Aug 22 11:33:48 2014
From: jhuns at vt.edu (Jeremy Hunsinger)
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:33:48 -0400
Subject: [governance] IGC Funds
In-Reply-To: <CAMz5XN6TtWd2pUoYdZGo3OWpL6YfufdUjzYOR2LOhKsBtvpaMA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMz5XN6TtWd2pUoYdZGo3OWpL6YfufdUjzYOR2LOhKsBtvpaMA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABvxTGqK_PyH1iK3SCJMpx7o2HO+emH3301VEhL3UCqJBN5=Fg@mail.gmail.com>

Maybe switch to a host that gives non-profits free hosting?  i know
dreamhost does this. .

>
>
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____________________________________________________________
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     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From toml at communisphere.com  Fri Aug 22 12:00:41 2014
From: toml at communisphere.com (toml at communisphere.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 09:00:41 -0700
Subject: [governance] IGC Funds
Message-ID: <20140822090041.3256046495ccff5cef1c856a37184d19.65044f7b03.mailapi@mailapi17.secureserver.net>

We use Dreamhost as a US 501c3. It's free and seems to work well.

Tom Lowenhaupt
http://connectingnyc.org

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [governance] IGC Funds
From: Jeremy Hunsinger <jhuns at vt.edu>
Date: Aug 22, 2014 11:34 AM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org,"Deirdre Williams" <williams.deirdre at gmail.com>
CC: "Mawaki Chango" <kichango at gmail.com>,"Jeremy Malcolm" <Jeremy at malcolm.id.au>

Maybe switch to a host that gives non-profits free hosting?  i know<br/>dreamhost does this. .<br/><br/>><br/>><br/>____________________________________________________________<br/>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br/>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org<br/>To be removed from the list, visit:<br/>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing<br/><br/>For all other list information and functions, see:<br/>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance<br/>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:<br/>     http://www.igcaucus.org/<br/><br/>Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t<br/>

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____________________________________________________________
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To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From williams.deirdre at gmail.com  Fri Aug 22 12:11:59 2014
From: williams.deirdre at gmail.com (Deirdre Williams)
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 12:11:59 -0400
Subject: [governance] IGC Funds
In-Reply-To: <CABvxTGqK_PyH1iK3SCJMpx7o2HO+emH3301VEhL3UCqJBN5=Fg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMz5XN6TtWd2pUoYdZGo3OWpL6YfufdUjzYOR2LOhKsBtvpaMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABvxTGqK_PyH1iK3SCJMpx7o2HO+emH3301VEhL3UCqJBN5=Fg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMz5XN4MSPUF9Q+RfRGjTZZr2=8sXvEhfux+hu_XRwFHhoaVXQ@mail.gmail.com>

Please can the IGC  discuss the issue and reach some conclusions?
We note what Jeremy and Tom are saying.
As well as the hosting issue we need to think seriously about how to deal
with any funds that we may have. If you have any knowledge or expertise in
that area please share with the rest of us.
Thank you all
Deirdre and Mawaki
Co-coordinators


On 22 August 2014 11:33, Jeremy Hunsinger <jhuns at vt.edu> wrote:

> Maybe switch to a host that gives non-profits free hosting?  i know
> dreamhost does this. .
>
>>
>>


-- 
“The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
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From subi.igp at gmail.com  Fri Aug 22 14:40:56 2014
From: subi.igp at gmail.com (Subi Chaturvedi)
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2014 00:10:56 +0530
Subject: [governance] Why IGF? Chair's blog on 2014 IGF- Istanbul
In-Reply-To: <CAFfuWVkszfNtYBNt0L4znnhzjqus_ygbWHx18ytsTH2fOyB7Aw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFfuWVkszfNtYBNt0L4znnhzjqus_ygbWHx18ytsTH2fOyB7Aw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFfuWV=EJfYSqWchNXveJkgZXtaVbBdKV5NADpDmk9F2-G53Qw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear All,

Hope you will make time to please see the attached blog written by the
Chair of the MAG Amb. Janis Karklins about the 2014 IGF- Istanbul.

You may also wish to translate it into your language, for your local press
and share it amongst your networks and communities.

While the choice always exists, to critique and engage constructively,
especially when you see room for improvement. The IGF, is a space which
remains an amplifier of issues around a free, open , secure, interoperable
Internet. CS has always looked at the internet as an enabler of free speech
and expression. Human rights violations and policies/laws which are
ambiguous or loosely worded impact digital trust and our ability to
actualise potential. Enacted without public consultation they are often
misused and interpreted at will more often than not failing to address the
core problem. Privacy and surveillance are increasingly being pitted
against national security and the two being posited as mutually exclusive.
Governments globally have had a history of engaging with the private
sector. When we look at the issues from purely resources standpoint, they
win. Many friends and colleagues have rightly pointed out that it is
important to recognise the voices which aren't in the room in
multistakeholder participation. And venues are expensive, in destination
cities for meetings. Most CS can ill afford, being present at these
meetings in person, keeping track alone of all the different events on the
IG calendar is a challenge. But it is our tenacity and will to hang in
there, our sheer determination through continuous engagement that, ushers
in change. Friends and colleagues who can't make it this year largely due
to resource gaps will be missed. Each voice brings in a diversity of
perspective and plurality of issues. While we recognise the conflicts and
discourses within, there is undeniable value in speaking truth to power and
being in the room and on the table. Change is slow but it is certain.

There is value in engaging because we have the most at stake. Internet and
Freedom. Both we care for, deeply. The IGF is a safe space and we must not
shy away from raising issues that concern us as a community, however thorny
or uncomfortable they might be.

Hope to see you in Istanbul, dialogue, debate discuss.

warmest

Subi Chaturvedi
 Dear All,

Hope you will make time to please see the attached blog written by the
Chair of the MAG Amb. Janis Karklins about the 2014 IGF- Istanbul.

You may also wish to translate it into your language, for your local press
and share it amongst your networks and communities.

While the choice always remains, to critique and engage constructively, the
IGF still, is a space which remains an amplifier of issues around a free,
open , secure, interoperable Internet. CS has always looked at the internet
as an enabler of free speech and expression. Human rights violations and
policies/laws which are ambiguous or loosely worded impact digital trust
and our ability to actualise potential. Enacted without public consultation
they are often misused and interpreted at will more often than not failing
to address the core problem. Privacy and surveillance are increasingly
being pitted against national security and the two being posited as
mutually exclusive. Governments globally have had a history of engaging
with the private sector. When we look at the issues from purely resources
standpoint, they win. Many friends and colleagues have rightly pointed out
that it is important to recognise the voices which aren't in the room in
multistakeholder participation. And venues are expensive more often than
not, in destination cities for meetings. Most CS can ill afford, being
present at meetings, keeping track alone of all the different events on the
IG calendar is a challenge. But it is our tenacity and will to hang in
there, our sheer determination through continuous engagement that, ushers
in change. Friends and colleagues who can't make it for whatever reason and
most often due to resource gaps will be missed. Each voice brings in a
diversity of perspective and plurality of issues. While we recognise
the conflicts and discourses within, there is undeniable value in speaking
truth to power and being in the room and on the table. Change is slow but
it is certain.

There is value in engaging because we have the most at stake. Internet and
Freedom. Both we care for, deeply. The IGF is a safe space and we must not
shy away from raising issues that concern us as a community, however thorny
or uncomfortable they might be.

Hope to see you in Istanbul, dialogue, debate discuss.

warmest

Subi Chaturvedi
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From anja at internetdemocracy.in  Fri Aug 22 15:43:22 2014
From: anja at internetdemocracy.in (Anja Kovacs)
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2014 01:13:22 +0530
Subject: [bestbits] [governance] Opening cermony
In-Reply-To: <53F74BDB.10108@gold.ac.uk>
References: <CAMz5XN7=MQWf7kpNu1oSQbzvL6-gJAgnrFPhK2a9NwMhc7u-GQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHj_20hAA41aNaFMeNi_KiyA1JiNi=CGHwjJ3oWYPHhihEo51Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMz5XN610LghRr2f87W+=kahm5S3VYBWqV=ViwtY6S-V9NvnKA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHj_20hhKRKk1J=xK8m1em+KLbf63XZMVV=oPi2L=nC-Q7AmHg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJqNAHC7DkPPsZRs2wwo5sEh8kS6GwnnkeC+sA93YmUv_VUAAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<53F74BDB.10108@gold.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <CAJqNAHCmWPPHKCJJ0pTEjxViuf=0D1mj7QrAKUqcoMeW1CNNAg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for clarifying that, Marianne. Glad to hear at least one workshop
did get approved. Many thanks to all involved!

By the way, as many of you may already know, there has recently been a
crackdown on human rights defenders in Azerbaijan again as well, including
on bloggers and others who attended the IGF there, such as Rasul Jafarov. I
think this deserves repeated mention - and protest - in the IGF as well
(though Deirdre, I understand that you may not be able to include it in
your speech, and that you have some very difficult to make already!).

Best,
Anja
 On Aug 22, 2014 7:25 PM, "Marianne Franklin" <m.i.franklin at gold.ac.uk>
wrote:

>  Dear all
>
> +1 from me.
>
> Anja, just to reassure you and others that one workshop from Turkish
> activists did make the program, thanks to a lot of effort from Turkish folk
> in Turkey and elsewhere, and with a collaborative effort between the IRPC
> and Freedom House to make sure this session made the program. It is on
> Friday morning at 9am and has support from the Turkish Pirate Party. Would
> be good to have a wide awake and supportive audience for this new
> initiative. There are a lot of events happening in and beyond the IGF venue
> on this day.
>
> It is WS 225 entitled Online Freedoms and Access to Information Online
> <http://igf2014.sched.org/event/108673c90f772a94e889c94a72651104?iframe=yes&w=i:100;&sidebar=yes&bg=no>.
>
>
> cheers
> MF
>
> On 22/08/2014 15:10, Anja Kovacs wrote:
>
> Dear Deirdre,
>
>  Many suggestions already, but may I propose that you link the concern
> for human rights specifically to what is happening in Turkey? The Index on
> Censorship article Chinmayi posted earlier today gives a good overview.
> Seeing that it seems none of the workshops proposed by Turkish activists
> were accepted for this year's IGF, I think it is important that we send out
> a strong signal of solidarity and raise their concerns as often as we can.
>
>  And very happy to have you as our opening speaker!
>
>  Many thanks,
>
>
> On 21 August 2014 19:35, Baudouin SCHOMBE <b.schombe at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks De for rectification, so we still thinking about IGF in future
>>
>>  *SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN*
>> *REPRESENTANT  TICAFRICA ET CYBERVILLAGE at FRICA/RDC*
>>
>> *COORDINATION NATIONALE CAFEC COORDINATION NATIONALE REPRONTIC*
>>
>> Téléphone mobile:+243998983491/+243813684512
>> email                  : b.schombe at gmail.com
>> skype                 : b.schombe
>> blog                    : http://akimambo.unblog.fr
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  2014-08-21 15:19 GMT+02:00 Deirdre Williams <williams.deirdre at gmail.com>:
>>
>>
>>  Dear Baudoin,
>>> It's De not Nnenna, but I'll take that as an ENORMOUS vote of
>>> confidence. Thank you :-) And thank you for the suggestions.
>>> De
>>>
>>>
>>>  On 21 August 2014 05:31, Baudouin SCHOMBE <b.schombe at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Nnenna,
>>>>
>>>> IGF over time becomes a platform for increasingly important as the
>>>> global, regional and subregional levels.
>>>>
>>>> It is important that the IGF must very well established in each country respecting
>>>> the multi-stakeholder approach. IGF nationally is the foundation of the
>>>> edifice on which consolidates the IGF at the sub regional, regional and
>>>> global levels. It is here also that all local actors can talk and
>>>> discuss face to face.
>>>>
>>>> It is also important that the debate on the NetMundial intensifies and
>>>> he emerges a consensus reading on "NetMundial" initiative and its
>>>> interaction with IGF.
>>>>
>>>> It will emphasize the need for the participation of African media in
>>>> all IGF and consider the training and the level of the media has on the
>>>> IGF process at all levels.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  *SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN*
>>>> *REPRESENTANT  TICAFRICA ET CYBERVILLAGE at FRICA/RDC*
>>>>
>>>> *COORDINATION NATIONALE CAFEC COORDINATION NATIONALE REPRONTIC*
>>>>
>>>> Téléphone mobile:+243998983491/+243813684512
>>>> email                  : b.schombe at gmail.com
>>>> skype                 : b.schombe
>>>> blog                    : http://akimambo.unblog.fr
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2014-08-19 15:41 GMT+02:00 Deirdre Williams <williams.deirdre at gmail.com
>>>> >:
>>>>
>>>>>  Dear Colleagues,
>>>>> Yesterday I heard that I have been selected by the  MAG  to make the
>>>>> civil society presentation at the opening ceremony. Please send me your
>>>>> suggestions of topics for inclusion so that, as far as it's possible in
>>>>> such a short time, I can say what all of us want to be said.
>>>>> The IGC and Bestbits are not all of civil society;please help me to as
>>>>> large a view as possible by passing on this message to others in as wide a
>>>>> reach as possible.
>>>>> Thank you
>>>>>  Deirdre Williams
>>>>> Co-coordinator, IG Caucua.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  --
>>>>> “The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir
>>>>> William Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
>>>>>
>>>>>  ____________________________________________________________
>>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>>>
>>>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>>>
>>>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  --
>>> “The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir
>>> William Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>
>
>  --
> Dr. Anja Kovacs
> The Internet Democracy Project
>
> +91 9899028053 | @anjakovacs
> www.internetdemocracy.in
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      bestbits at lists.bestbits.net.
> To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:
>      http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits
>
>
> --
> Dr Marianne Franklin
> Professor of Global Media and Politics
> Convener: Global Media & Transnational Communications Program
> Goldsmiths (University of London)
> Department of Media & Communications
> New Cross, London SE14 6NW
> Tel: +44 20 7919 7072<m.i.franklin at gold.ac.uk> <m.i.franklin at gold.ac.uk>
> @GloCommhttps://twitter.com/GloCommhttp://www.gold.ac.uk/media-communications/staff/franklin/https://www.gold.ac.uk/pg/ma-global-media-transnational-communications/
> Co-Chair Internet Rights & Principles Coalition (UN IGF)www.internetrightsandprinciples.org
> @netrights
>
>
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From anja at internetdemocracy.in  Fri Aug 22 15:48:10 2014
From: anja at internetdemocracy.in (Anja Kovacs)
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2014 01:18:10 +0530
Subject: [governance] Closing ceremony - CS speaker - URGENT
In-Reply-To: <CACTo+v_a9PuViOKHU+ZhK5Rs8+H99o8Q9qjek3ddmRao47MrAQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMz5XN5yzE0i7s=L=-Ye3_eoWj8+EhSVuEV4srqzqbs_Yzusfw@mail.gmail.com>
	<53F61BBD.6010109@itforchange.net>
	<CA+EjHYr8dQKN6t-5zjyo-GNxH5ugyqar3JJmrHuOANuP8EnmKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJqNAHBTwvsioi9J81b_msO122s6gSfa91p-Z1-Rx=ziDR4aMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACTo+v9wqp_xs75EhyZLtGdRSTsx1k1O_-GnnHTmG2QETb_1XQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACTo+v_a9PuViOKHU+ZhK5Rs8+H99o8Q9qjek3ddmRao47MrAQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJqNAHBtK1LVPS_MmS3xsEN9MbLAN-+9MYpeAt4AKyRrxjAujw@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry for causing various kinds of confusion Mawaki, my bad. Thanks for
double-checking and clarifying.

Best,
Anja
On Aug 22, 2014 7:16 PM, "Mawaki Chango" <kichango at gmail.com> wrote:

> Ok, from what I see from De's call for nomination, the "next 24 hours"
> have already ran out since Aug. 20 (my time) which is the date of the post.
> I would guess some of the IGC nominees are among the names being
> considered right now for short list by the CS committee.
> Best,
>
> Mawaki
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Mawaki Chango <kichango at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Anja,
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Anja Kovacs <anja at internetdemocracy.in>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Perhaps it is wortwhile for IGC to consider nominating Burcu as well,
>>> and maybe even only her (there were no other nominations on the BB list
>>> either),
>>>
>>
>> In fact, there are other nominations received and being considered by the
>> CS coordination committee (hoping that's the correct name, which I'm still
>> not used to despite being the IGC liaison in that committee.) But it's also
>> true that Burcu Kilic has a lot of support.
>>
>> Now, what I'm confused about is this: Are we still within the time for
>> submitting name from IGC? I have to check back the timeline given by De in
>> an earlier message. Because the above committee is currently running a
>> process to short list the nominees, which would be at odds with the IGC
>> timeline for input in that process assuming nomination is still open here.
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Mawaki
>>
>>> as this would make maximise the chances that the voices and concerns of
>>> Turkish CS get heard within the IGF as well. So far, the space provided is
>>> extremely limited.
>>>
>>> If we propose the same name, and at the same time note that counter the
>>> tradition, we were not consulted on the name of the person for the opening
>>> ceremony (I agree with Parminder that we should do so, though I also agree
>>> that we're very lucky to have Deirdre!), we might actually be able to get
>>> this through.
>>>
>>> Thanks and best,
>>> Anja
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  On 21 August 2014 23:33, Louis Pouzin (well) <pouzin at well.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>  Propaganda: bottom-up.
>>>> Reality: top-down
>>>> What's new ?
>>>>
>>>> Luckily Deirdre is a fine choice.
>>>>
>>>> Louis
>>>> - - -
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 6:18 PM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>  I am all for Dierdre for the opening ceremony, but one thing I could
>>>>> not understand.
>>>>>
>>>>> How was the selection for opening ceremony slot made by MAG (or
>>>>> whoever made it), but that of closing ceremony passed to CS groups to give
>>>>> nominations for... Isnt is it a bit ad hoc, and I think civil society
>>>>> should ask questions about ad hoc and unexplained processes of public
>>>>> institutions..
>>>>>
>>>>> parminder
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>>
>>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>>
>>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dr. Anja Kovacs
>>> The Internet Democracy Project
>>>
>>> +91 9899028053 | @anjakovacs
>>> www.internetdemocracy.in
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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____________________________________________________________
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From williams.deirdre at gmail.com  Sat Aug 23 08:11:57 2014
From: williams.deirdre at gmail.com (Deirdre Williams)
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2014 08:11:57 -0400
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [igcbp-talk] Looking for your input - NetMundial
 Initiative
In-Reply-To: <CAK-FJAdYqXwXPXzEMiT-SdMypBA=DdCO+WtGeTTiMN0jqWqBkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK-FJAdYqXwXPXzEMiT-SdMypBA=DdCO+WtGeTTiMN0jqWqBkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMz5XN7urghHKfpavaDZ-XtkDN18gghZW=mRBGhJfx4wD5g+WA@mail.gmail.com>

In case anyone missed this message from Carolina yesterday ...
Dear all,

As some of you might have heard and also seen the leaked documents, the
World Economic Forum, supported by ICANN, will host the workshop
"NetMundial Initiative" on 28th of August, in Geneva.

Besides leaked documents, an "official" site is now up (as of yesterday) at
http://www.weforum.org/issues/global-internet-governance, with list of
participants, agenda, a short briefing and a FAQ. It worth reading it - the
FAQ is a very "interesting" piece. See it here -
http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_2NETmundialInitiativeFAQ.pdf.

*Background regarding invitations and communication with NMI organizers: *None
of the CS members invited to the workshop know exactly how the selection
process happened. In my personal case, I heard I was being invited from
colleagues in Brazil, but you can refer to Brett's previous email (I paste
it below) regarding to some of our earlier concerns regarding the lack of
transparency related to the invitation process.

Yesterday, a group of CS members had a call with Fadi and folks from the WEF
- the first of its kind. The call was arranged in response to a request from
CS invited for the Geneva meeting.  Below are some key concerns that were
drafted ahead of the call. A primary theme on the call was lack of
transparency and failure to adequately engage CS as part of the planning
process for this workshop and its follow-up processes.  We also conveyed
how problematic that it was about the lack of southern CS
representation. Besides
the issues below, and in regard to participation, we asked ICANN and WEF to
let CS chose its own representatives and that the representation should
rotate, so it is inclusive. We also asked for remote participation and that
the WEF sets a platform for remote commentary, which should happen in
advance, during and after the meeting. The initiative was presented to us
as an experiment that will initially last for roughly 6 months.  Nobody
from CS who is attending the workshop has decided to publicly support or
not the initiative. At the workshop, we will observe, understand what is
still up in the air and what may have been decided in advance by the
conveners, and then decide.  But for that to happen, it would be very
helpful to hear more in the main IG lists.

*So, the primary purpose of this email is to** reach out to you with a very
practical ask**:* The agenda presents a series of questions this
"Initiative" wants to address. Those on the call thought it would be a good
idea to ask in a series of CS lists involved in IG for *your views and**
comments regardin**g** those questions*. Refer to the agenda here:
http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_3NETmundialInitiativeLaunchAgenda.pdf

It would be extremely helpful to those attending to get your input on the
questions and issues presented in the agenda by Tuesday Aug 26, so we can
incorporate your thoughts and comments into our interventions at the
workshop. Please let us know if you have any other questions or concerns.

 Cheers,

 C



   - Welcome the interest and desire of ICANN and the WEF to leverage and
   further build on the NETmundial outcomes


   - Recognize that there have been some challenges in bringing this group
   together and many concerns as to the processes by which this occurred


   - Convey broader civil society concerns that the convening process was
   inconsistent with the NETmundial principles - greater openness and
   transparency is required in order to achieve any legitimacy


   - Insist that the process going forward be true to principles of
   openness, transparency and inclusivity and that there be mechanisms to
   ensure that fullest participation is facilitated


   - Insist that the NMI support, underpin and strengthen the IGF and its
   work


   - Insist that the NMI not duplicate or subsume work of existing entities
   to promote NETmundial outcomes but rather support and encourage such work
   and find new avenues


   - Seek clarification and work to identify the medium to long term goals
   of NMI - what is the NMI's added value, specific purpose and what are (at
   most) the three clearly identifiable and achievable goals that it is going
   to set for itself


   - Work to ensure that NMI is not operating in a vacuum and that it is
   appropriately linked to 1NET, the IGF, the various business and civil
   society platforms, etc., and to ensure that it is appropriately taking into
   account other processes such as the WSIS+10 review


   - Suggest that a meeting in January around the fringes of Davos may not
   be suitably accessible to the majority of interested parties given the
   costs, etc., of that particular event


   - Seek to put "more meat on the bones" of the proposed actions, noting
   where such actions are already taking place (and their progress), and
   suggest that it may be wise to start with one action rather than multiple
   [encouraging the implementation of NETmundial outcomes - particularly
   governance principles and processes - at the national and regional levels,
   for example]


   - Suggest an open brainstorming session at Aug meeting and an online
   process to solicit ideas for taking the NETmundial outcomes forward.
   (Perhaps the Initiative should be open to suggestions as to possible
   actions on an ongoing basis.)


   - Better understand the role of the WEF and how the "host" is going to
   rotate and how the meetings will be structured so that they can encourage
   the greatest possible engagement and participation


   - Ensure that the steering committee going forward is put together
   through appropriately transparent and inclusive processes.




---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Brett Solomon <brett at accessnow.org>
Date: Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 2:41 PM
Subject: [bestbits] NetMundial Initiative
To: "&lt,bestbits at lists.bestbits.net&gt," <bestbits at lists.bestbits.net>

Hey there,
>
> As many of you know there is a post-Sao Paolo process emerging, proposed
> by Fadi Chehadi at ICANN, called the Net Mundial Initiative. Various
> versions of the documents laying out this concept have been floating around
> and are now leaked <https://twitter.com/IGtransparency>.
>
>
> A number of individuals including myself were alerted to this process
> before the documents were 'leaked' and have since communicated it more
> broadly amongst civil society. Clearly there are a number of procedural
> and substantive questions about what the Net Mundial Initiative will seek
> to accomplish, who will be involved, and what the processes for inclusion
> and decision-making will be moving forward.
>
>
> As the documents indicate, the next step of the Net Mundial Initiative
> will be a meeting in Geneva on August 28th. A number of members of civil
> society who have been invited to join the Net Mundial Initiative will
> attend this event, including Carolina Rossini (Public Knowledge), Eileen
> Donahoe (HRW), and Bill Drake (though perhaps more there as a
> representative of the academic community).
>
> I have not communicated this yet to the organizers, but I’m  planning on
> going to the event to learn more, but Access has not decided yet whether we
> will accept the invitation to join the Steering Committee. Regardless, I
> personally will consult our global membership and other civil society
> partners to garner an array of perspectives before attending.
>
> From what I have been told, the process will be hosted by the World
> Economic Forum for a temporary period from August to February 2015. In
> addition to those listed above, a number of concerns have been raised about
> the Initiative including:
>
>
>
>    -
>
>    Participation: selection process, attendance, and representation from
>    the global south
>    -
>
>    WEF as host: corporate nature of the host, perceptions of corporate
>    capture, approach to development and elitism
>    -
>
>    Objectives: what is the NMI trying to achieve, and how does it relate
>    to other key elements of the IG landscape, in particular the IGF.
>
>
> All of the people that Fadi and WEF reached out to that I’ve talked to
> have expressed pretty deep concerns back to the organizers, including
> pushing hard to make sure civil society is represented and for this process
> in general to be more open, transparent, and inclusive of those from the
> global south. It would be good if we could have as open lines of
> communication as possible, including at the event, so if people have any
> thoughts or concerns they can then share them on or off list. Those who are
> attending should be a conduit for communication.
>
>
> Additionally, we have requested a meeting between civil society
> representatives and Fadi and Klaus (of WEF), so there will be a further
> opportunity to voice concerns there, which those going to Geneva will
> report back on.
>
>
> Best wishes
>
> Brett
>
> PS I am on Access team offsite so might be slow to respond.
>
> Brett Solomon
> Executive Director
> Access | accessnow.org
>
> +1 917 969 6077
> @solomonbrett
> Key ID: 0x4EDC17EB
> Fingerprint: C02C A886 B0FC 3A25 FF9F ECE8 FCDF BA23 4EDC 17EB
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      bestbits at lists.bestbits.net.
> To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:
>      http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits
>



-- 
-- 
*Carolina Rossini *
*Vice President, International Policy*
*Public Knowledge*
*http://www.publicknowledge.org/ <http://www.publicknowledge.org/>*
+ 1 6176979389 | skype: carolrossini | @carolinarossini

 --
-- 
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-- 
“The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
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From ajp at glocom.ac.jp  Sat Aug 23 08:38:30 2014
From: ajp at glocom.ac.jp (Adam)
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2014 21:38:30 +0900
Subject: [governance] Re: [bestbits] Looking for your input - NetMundial
 Initiative
In-Reply-To: <CAK-FJAdYqXwXPXzEMiT-SdMypBA=DdCO+WtGeTTiMN0jqWqBkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK-FJAdYqXwXPXzEMiT-SdMypBA=DdCO+WtGeTTiMN0jqWqBkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4DC51A4B-4361-441A-A324-EDB576F08177@glocom.ac.jp>

Dear Carolina,

Thank you for sharing this.  A few comments below.


On Aug 23, 2014, at 9:24 AM, Carolina Rossini wrote:

> 
> 
> Dear all,
> 
> 
> 
> As some of you might have heard and also seen the leaked documents, the World Economic Forum, supported by ICANN, will host the workshop "NetMundial Initiative" on 28th of August, in Geneva. 
> 
> 
> Besides leaked documents, an "official" site is now up (as of yesterday) at http://www.weforum.org/issues/global-internet-governance, with list of participants, agenda, a short briefing and a FAQ. It worth reading it - the FAQ is a very "interesting" piece. See it here - http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_2NETmundialInitiativeFAQ.pdf. 
> 
> 


Shame it had to leak.  Fadi announced the initiative at the ICANN meeting in London (around 23rd June) and the lead CS participants were already known at that time.  But only rumor, no information, until the leak of course...


> Background regarding invitations and communication with NMI organizers: None of the CS members invited to the workshop know exactly how the selection process happened. In my personal case, I heard I was being invited from colleagues in Brazil, but you can refer to Brett's previous email (I paste it below) regarding to some of our earlier concerns regarding the lack of transparency related to the invitation process. 
> 
> 
> Yesterday, a group of CS members had a call with Fadi and folks from the WEF - the first of its kind. The call was arranged in response to a request from CS invited for the Geneva meeting.  


Who were the other "civil society" people who joined the call with Fadi/WEF?  

And news on membership of the Steering Committee?


> Below are some key concerns that were drafted ahead of the call. A primary theme on the call was lack of transparency and failure to adequately engage CS as part of the planning process for this workshop and its follow-up processes.  We also conveyed how problematic that it was about the lack of southern CS representation. 


Except for yourself, is there anyone?  Skimming the participant list, the only other person I recognize as having a experience of Internet governance at national/regional level global south is Barrack Otieno (tech community, Kenya and East Africa IGFs and other).


> Besides the issues below, and in regard to participation, we asked ICANN and WEF to let CS chose its own representatives and that the representation should rotate, so it is inclusive.


from <http://www.weforum.org/issues/global-internet-governance>  this initiative is "Inspired by the NETmundial..." "Carry forward the spirit of NETmundial..."'

NETmundial document is couldn't be clearer "Stakeholder representatives appointed to multistakeholder Internet governance processes should be selected through open, democratic, and transparent processes. Different stakeholder groups should self-manage their processes based on inclusive, publicly known, well defined and accountable mechanisms."  

Please ask WEF to cut the sweet words and either follow the "spirit" or find another brand :-)  Quite an issue over this during the lead-up to NETmundial.  Should be a civil society non-negotiable.  


> We also asked for remote participation and that the WEF sets a platform for remote commentary, which should happen in advance, during and after the meeting. The initiative was presented to us as an experiment that will initially last for roughly 6 months.  Nobody from CS who is attending the workshop has decided to publicly support or not the initiative.


Will you attend as representatives of civil society or for your own organizations? 

Is WEF (etc) covering costs of participation, travel to Geneva?  


> At the workshop, we will observe, understand what is still up in the air and what may have been decided in advance by the conveners, and then decide.  But for that to happen, it would be very helpful to hear more in the main IG lists.
> 
> 
> So, the primary purpose of this email is to reach out to you with a very practical ask: The agenda presents a series of questions this "Initiative" wants to address. Those on the call thought it would be a good idea to ask in a series of CS lists involved in IG for your views and comments regarding those questions. Refer to the agenda here: http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_3NETmundialInitiativeLaunchAgenda.pdf
>     
> It would be extremely helpful to those attending to get your input on the questions and issues presented in the agenda by Tuesday Aug 26, so we can incorporate your thoughts and comments into our interventions at the workshop. Please let us know if you have any other questions or concerns.
> 
>  


Long way to go for an agenda doesn't have much time for discussion.  

Topic that most interests me is (from the NETmundial document) "There is a need to develop multistakeholder mechanisms at the national level owing to the fact that a good portion of Internet governance issues should be tackled at this level. National multistakeholder mechanisms should serve as a link between local discussions and regional and global instances. Therefore a fluent coordination and dialogue across those different dimensions is essential."  Two items on the agenda seem to address this.

and text I think perhaps helpful :

"National and regional level Internet governance structures and mechanisms must emerge, guided by the same global principles to ensure alignment [*]. The synchronization between the different levels ensures a healthy, inclusive, and balanced stakeholder representation locally while contributing to the coordination of activities taking place at the global level and avoiding additional frictions in the Internet."

[* i.e. NETmunudal principles, and text from the Panel On Global Internet Cooperation and Governance Mechanisms, contribution to NETmundial http://internetgovernancepanel.org/ ]

How can this new WEF initiative help develop, support/sustain such national level mechanisms, will the members commit to supporting such activities.  Does need commitment, we have been talking about such mechanisms since 2000/01.  

The bullets below look good. 

Adam  

(not subscribed to redlatam at lists.accessnow.org, igcbp-talk <igcbp-talk at googlegroups.com> and steering at lists.bestbits.net so removed from cc list, but added "governance at lists.igcaucus.org IGC" <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>)





>  Cheers,
>  
>  C
> 
> 
>  
> 	• 
> Welcome the interest and desire of ICANN and the WEF to leverage and further build on the NETmundial outcomes
> 
> 	• Recognize that there have been some challenges in bringing this group together and many concerns as to the processes by which this occurred
> 
> 
> 	• Convey broader civil society concerns that the convening process was inconsistent with the NETmundial principles - greater openness and transparency is required in order to achieve any legitimacy 
> 
> 
> 	• Insist that the process going forward be true to principles of openness, transparency and inclusivity and that there be mechanisms to ensure that fullest participation is facilitated
> 
> 
> 	• Insist that the NMI support, underpin and strengthen the IGF and its work 
> 
> 	• Insist that the NMI not duplicate or subsume work of existing entities to promote NETmundial outcomes but rather support and encourage such work and find new avenues
> 
> 
> 	• Seek clarification and work to identify the medium to long term goals of NMI - what is the NMI's added value, specific purpose and what are (at most) the three clearly identifiable and achievable goals that it is going to set for itself
> 
> 
> 	• Work to ensure that NMI is not operating in a vacuum and that it is appropriately linked to 1NET, the IGF, the various business and civil society platforms, etc., and to ensure that it is appropriately taking into account other processes such as the WSIS+10 review 
> 
> 
> 	• Suggest that a meeting in January around the fringes of Davos may not be suitably accessible to the majority of interested parties given the costs, etc., of that particular event
> 
> 
> 	• Seek to put "more meat on the bones" of the proposed actions, noting where such actions are already taking place (and their progress), and suggest that it may be wise to start with one action rather than multiple [encouraging the implementation of NETmundial outcomes - particularly governance principles and processes - at the national and regional levels, for example]
> 
> 
> 	• Suggest an open brainstorming session at Aug meeting and an online process to solicit ideas for taking the NETmundial outcomes forward. (Perhaps the Initiative should be open to suggestions as to possible actions on an ongoing basis.)
> 
> 
> 	• Better understand the role of the WEF and how the "host" is going to rotate and how the meetings will be structured so that they can encourage the greatest possible engagement and participation
> 
> 
> 	• Ensure that the steering committee going forward is put together through appropriately transparent and inclusive processes. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Brett Solomon <brett at accessnow.org>
> Date: Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 2:41 PM
> Subject: [bestbits] NetMundial Initiative
> To: "&lt,bestbits at lists.bestbits.net&gt," <bestbits at lists.bestbits.net>
> 
> Hey there,
> 
> As many of you know there is a post-Sao Paolo process emerging, proposed by Fadi Chehadi at ICANN, called the Net Mundial Initiative. Various versions of the documents laying out this concept have been floating around and are now leaked.
> 
> A number of individuals including myself were alerted to this process before the documents were 'leaked' and have since communicated it more broadly amongst civil society. Clearly there are a number of procedural and substantive questions about what the Net Mundial Initiative will seek to accomplish, who will be involved, and what the processes for inclusion and decision-making will be moving forward.
> 
> As the documents indicate, the next step of the Net Mundial Initiative will be a meeting in Geneva on August 28th. A number of members of civil society who have been invited to join the Net Mundial Initiative will attend this event, including Carolina Rossini (Public Knowledge), Eileen Donahoe (HRW), and Bill Drake (though perhaps more there as a representative of the academic community).
> 
> I have not communicated this yet to the organizers, but I’m  planning on going to the event to learn more, but Access has not decided yet whether we will accept the invitation to join the Steering Committee. Regardless, I personally will consult our global membership and other civil society partners to garner an array of perspectives before attending. 
> 
> From what I have been told, the process will be hosted by the World Economic Forum for a temporary period from August to February 2015. In addition to those listed above, a number of concerns have been raised about the Initiative including:
> 
> 	• Participation: selection process, attendance, and representation from the global south
> 	• WEF as host: corporate nature of the host, perceptions of corporate capture, approach to development and elitism
> 	• Objectives: what is the NMI trying to achieve, and how does it relate to other key elements of the IG landscape, in particular the IGF.
> 
> All of the people that Fadi and WEF reached out to that I’ve talked to have expressed pretty deep concerns back to the organizers, including pushing hard to make sure civil society is represented and for this process in general to be more open, transparent, and inclusive of those from the global south. It would be good if we could have as open lines of communication as possible, including at the event, so if people have any thoughts or concerns they can then share them on or off list. Those who are attending should be a conduit for communication. 
> 
> Additionally, we have requested a meeting between civil society representatives and Fadi and Klaus (of WEF), so there will be a further opportunity to voice concerns there, which those going to Geneva will report back on. 
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Brett
> 
> PS I am on Access team offsite so might be slow to respond. 
> 
> Brett Solomon
> Executive Director 
> Access | accessnow.org 
> 
> +1 917 969 6077 
> @solomonbrett
> Key ID: 0x4EDC17EB
> Fingerprint: C02C A886 B0FC 3A25 FF9F ECE8 FCDF BA23 4EDC 17EB
> 
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      bestbits at lists.bestbits.net.
> To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:
>      http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> -- 
> Carolina Rossini 
> Vice President, International Policy
> Public Knowledge
> http://www.publicknowledge.org/
> + 1 6176979389 | skype: carolrossini | @carolinarossini
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     bestbits at lists.bestbits.net.
> To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:
>     http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits


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From parminder at itforchange.net  Sat Aug 23 08:54:52 2014
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2014 18:24:52 +0530
Subject: [governance] Closing ceremony - CS speaker - URGENT
In-Reply-To: <53F61BBD.6010109@itforchange.net>
References: <CAMz5XN5yzE0i7s=L=-Ye3_eoWj8+EhSVuEV4srqzqbs_Yzusfw@mail.gmail.com> <53F61BBD.6010109@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <53F88F1C.8050702@itforchange.net>


On Thursday 21 August 2014 09:48 PM, parminder wrote:
> I am all for Dierdre for the opening ceremony, but one thing I could 
> not understand.
>
> How was the selection for opening ceremony slot made by MAG (or 
> whoever made it), but that of closing ceremony passed to CS groups to 
> give nominations for... Isnt is it a bit ad hoc, and I think civil 
> society should ask questions about ad hoc and unexplained processes of 
> public institutions..

I had hoped that one or more of civil society members of MAG, especially 
the ones who were either nominated or supported by IGC, would respond to 
this simple and direct question.... Both CSTD IGF improvements group, 
whose report was ratified by the UN GA, and the NetMundial's informal 
outcome document says that stakeholders should manage their nomination 
processes, and it would be transparent and so on... parminder

>
> parminder
>
> On Wednesday 20 August 2014 07:18 PM, Deirdre Williams wrote:
>> Dear Colleagues,
>> This is a reminder about the message from Subi yesterday morning.
>>
>> "Nominations have been invited by the IGF Secretariat for CS reps for 
>> the closing ceremony at IGF ISTANBUL,  2014."
>>
>> Please make your suggestions to the list; nominees should be people 
>> who will be physically present in Istanbul and willing to accept 
>> nomination.
>>
>> If you wish to make a nomination please do so within the next 24 hours.
>>
>> Thank you
>>
>> Mawaki Chango, Deirdre Williams
>> Co-coordinators
>>
>> -- 
>> “The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir 
>> William Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
>

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From kichango at gmail.com  Sat Aug 23 12:02:06 2014
From: kichango at gmail.com (Mawaki Chango)
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2014 16:02:06 +0000
Subject: [governance] Re: [bestbits] Why IGF? Chair's blog on 2014 IGF-
 Istanbul
In-Reply-To: <CAFfuWV=EJfYSqWchNXveJkgZXtaVbBdKV5NADpDmk9F2-G53Qw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFfuWVkszfNtYBNt0L4znnhzjqus_ygbWHx18ytsTH2fOyB7Aw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFfuWV=EJfYSqWchNXveJkgZXtaVbBdKV5NADpDmk9F2-G53Qw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACTo+v_HWUENe+JsJ1yVCSkj8XgYF-snAYKtp8Wg2SP3avezPg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Subi, for forwarding this.

Just a thought while reading Amb. Janis Karklins' blog entry... and a
question. I admit I haven't paid as much attention as I should have to the
outcomes of some of the consultations held over the last year or so. Has
the idea ever come up to make the IGF become a more autonomous
entity/process from the UN? I explain. A UN process has set up the IGF.
After 10 years, now that everybody including those who initially opposed it
seems to agree that it's useful to have it, can we start thinking of a
different model from one where UN (UNDESA, CSTD, UNGA, etc.) only calls the
shot as to whether the IGF will survive or not, etc.? Maybe link IGF to a
collegial process where the UN for sure plus CSOs and individuals,
Academics, Regional Intergovernmental Organizations (EU, AU, etc.) and I*
Organizations (ICANN, ISOC, etc.) will come together and make the
"meta-decisions" about IGF? With all those entities (or groups of entities)
bringing their legitimacy to the process (so the UN is not off the hook)
but not a single one will have to decide about the fate of IGF, and they
will also take some responsibility to bring funding to the process at
whatever level they can afford.

Please don't yet assume that I fully agree with myself here; just thinking
out loud.

Mawaki

 ==========================================
Mawaki Chango, PhD
Founder and CEO
DIGILEXIS
http://www.digilexis.com
m.chango at digilexis.com | *kichango at gmail.com <kichango at gmail.com>*
Twitter: @digilexis & @prodigilexis
Mob. (+225) 57 55 57 53 | 44 48 77 64
Skype: digilexis
==========================================


On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 6:40 PM, Subi Chaturvedi <subi.igp at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> Hope you will make time to please see the attached blog written by the
> Chair of the MAG Amb. Janis Karklins about the 2014 IGF- Istanbul.
>
> You may also wish to translate it into your language, for your local press
> and share it amongst your networks and communities.
>
> While the choice always exists, to critique and engage constructively,
> especially when you see room for improvement. The IGF, is a space which
> remains an amplifier of issues around a free, open , secure, interoperable
> Internet. CS has always looked at the internet as an enabler of free speech
> and expression. Human rights violations and policies/laws which are
> ambiguous or loosely worded impact digital trust and our ability to
> actualise potential. Enacted without public consultation they are often
> misused and interpreted at will more often than not failing to address the
> core problem. Privacy and surveillance are increasingly being pitted
> against national security and the two being posited as mutually exclusive.
> Governments globally have had a history of engaging with the private
> sector. When we look at the issues from purely resources standpoint, they
> win. Many friends and colleagues have rightly pointed out that it is
> important to recognise the voices which aren't in the room in
> multistakeholder participation. And venues are expensive, in destination
> cities for meetings. Most CS can ill afford, being present at these
> meetings in person, keeping track alone of all the different events on the
> IG calendar is a challenge. But it is our tenacity and will to hang in
> there, our sheer determination through continuous engagement that, ushers
> in change. Friends and colleagues who can't make it this year largely due
> to resource gaps will be missed. Each voice brings in a diversity of
> perspective and plurality of issues. While we recognise the conflicts and
> discourses within, there is undeniable value in speaking truth to power and
> being in the room and on the table. Change is slow but it is certain.
>
> There is value in engaging because we have the most at stake. Internet and
> Freedom. Both we care for, deeply. The IGF is a safe space and we must not
> shy away from raising issues that concern us as a community, however thorny
> or uncomfortable they might be.
>
> Hope to see you in Istanbul, dialogue, debate discuss.
>
> warmest
>
> Subi Chaturvedi
>  Dear All,
>
> Hope you will make time to please see the attached blog written by the
> Chair of the MAG Amb. Janis Karklins about the 2014 IGF- Istanbul.
>
> You may also wish to translate it into your language, for your local press
> and share it amongst your networks and communities.
>
> While the choice always remains, to critique and engage constructively,
> the IGF still, is a space which remains an amplifier of issues around a
> free, open , secure, interoperable Internet. CS has always looked at the
> internet as an enabler of free speech and expression. Human rights
> violations and policies/laws which are ambiguous or loosely worded impact
> digital trust and our ability to actualise potential. Enacted without
> public consultation they are often misused and interpreted at will more
> often than not failing to address the core problem. Privacy
> and surveillance are increasingly being pitted against national security
> and the two being posited as mutually exclusive. Governments globally have
> had a history of engaging with the private sector. When we look at the
> issues from purely resources standpoint, they win. Many friends and
> colleagues have rightly pointed out that it is important to recognise the
> voices which aren't in the room in multistakeholder participation. And
> venues are expensive more often than not, in destination cities for
> meetings. Most CS can ill afford, being present at meetings, keeping track
> alone of all the different events on the IG calendar is a challenge. But it
> is our tenacity and will to hang in there, our sheer determination through
> continuous engagement that, ushers in change. Friends and colleagues who
> can't make it for whatever reason and most often due to resource gaps will
> be missed. Each voice brings in a diversity of perspective and plurality of
> issues. While we recognise the conflicts and discourses within, there is
> undeniable value in speaking truth to power and being in the room and on
> the table. Change is slow but it is certain.
>
> There is value in engaging because we have the most at stake. Internet and
> Freedom. Both we care for, deeply. The IGF is a safe space and we must not
> shy away from raising issues that concern us as a community, however thorny
> or uncomfortable they might be.
>
> Hope to see you in Istanbul, dialogue, debate discuss.
>
> warmest
>
> Subi Chaturvedi
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      bestbits at lists.bestbits.net.
> To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:
>      http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits
>
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From williams.deirdre at gmail.com  Sat Aug 23 12:27:49 2014
From: williams.deirdre at gmail.com (Deirdre Williams)
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2014 12:27:49 -0400
Subject: [governance] IGC meeting in Istanbul
Message-ID: <CAMz5XN41EQrisWd+6OKVHy6goaTfMdefOJTBACvjsQODevE2jQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,

We just received confirmation that  the IGC has been allocated Bilateral
Room 1 (Rumeli -1 Level / Room 9)  for Friday, 5 September, 12.30 - 14.00
for our meeting in part due to lack of availability of an adequate time
slot on an earlier day in the week. On the other hand, a meeting on the
last day will also give us an opportunity to share impressions of this
year's IGF.

We are proposing to add to the agenda the web-hosting for the IGC, and an
appropriate arrangement to hold IGC funds. If you won't be present at the
meeting could you please send any suggestions you may have? We can
brainstorm possible solutions for presentation to the list for discussion
and approval.

Therefore the agenda now looks like:
Way forward for the IGC (with possible action items for re-focusing and
re-energizing IGC)
Web hosting arrangements
Alternative to Paypal for IGC funds
Review of this year's IGF from a civil society perspective

Looking forward to seeing you there

Mawaki and Deirdre
Co-coordinators.

-- 
“The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
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From suresh at hserus.net  Sat Aug 23 12:50:03 2014
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2014 22:20:03 +0530
Subject: [governance] IGC meeting in Istanbul
In-Reply-To: <CAMz5XN41EQrisWd+6OKVHy6goaTfMdefOJTBACvjsQODevE2jQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMz5XN41EQrisWd+6OKVHy6goaTfMdefOJTBACvjsQODevE2jQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <73C04E81-B00C-44C2-A875-8DB0366CDE41@hserus.net>

Is IGC registered as a non profit somewhere? The funds would be best held in that jurisdiction, to satisfy tax norms.  

Registering a 501 c3 and getting tax exemption is rather complicated stateside, maybe it is easier in say Geneva?

--srs (iPad)

> On 23-Aug-2014, at 21:57, Deirdre Williams <williams.deirdre at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear Colleagues,
> 
> We just received confirmation that  the IGC has been allocated Bilateral Room 1 (Rumeli -1 Level / Room 9)  for Friday, 5 September, 12.30 - 14.00 for our meeting in part due to lack of availability of an adequate time slot on an earlier day in the week. On the other hand, a meeting on the last day will also give us an opportunity to share impressions of this year's IGF.
> 
> We are proposing to add to the agenda the web-hosting for the IGC, and an appropriate arrangement to hold IGC funds. If you won't be present at the meeting could you please send any suggestions you may have? We can brainstorm possible solutions for presentation to the list for discussion and approval.
> 
> Therefore the agenda now looks like:
> Way forward for the IGC (with possible action items for re-focusing and re-energizing IGC) 
> Web hosting arrangements
> Alternative to Paypal for IGC funds
> Review of this year's IGF from a civil society perspective
> 
> Looking forward to seeing you there
> 
> Mawaki and Deirdre
> Co-coordinators.
> 
> -- 
> “The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From williams.deirdre at gmail.com  Sat Aug 23 13:05:11 2014
From: williams.deirdre at gmail.com (Deirdre Williams)
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2014 13:05:11 -0400
Subject: [governance] IGC meeting in Istanbul
In-Reply-To: <73C04E81-B00C-44C2-A875-8DB0366CDE41@hserus.net>
References: <CAMz5XN41EQrisWd+6OKVHy6goaTfMdefOJTBACvjsQODevE2jQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <73C04E81-B00C-44C2-A875-8DB0366CDE41@hserus.net>
Message-ID: <CAMz5XN57gG0gAmUqi+rWYggfoVb0jZ0_nKXAqPvNQcUBMgFHzg@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you for the comment Suresh. Can anyone clarify these points?
Deirdre


On 23 August 2014 12:50, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net> wrote:

> Is IGC registered as a non profit somewhere? The funds would be best held
> in that jurisdiction, to satisfy tax norms.
>
> Registering a 501 c3 and getting tax exemption is rather complicated
> stateside, maybe it is easier in say Geneva?
>
> --srs (iPad)
>
> On 23-Aug-2014, at 21:57, Deirdre Williams <williams.deirdre at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Dear Colleagues,
>
> We just received confirmation that  the IGC has been allocated Bilateral
> Room 1 (Rumeli -1 Level / Room 9)  for Friday, 5 September, 12.30 - 14.00
> for our meeting in part due to lack of availability of an adequate time
> slot on an earlier day in the week. On the other hand, a meeting on the
> last day will also give us an opportunity to share impressions of this
> year's IGF.
>
> We are proposing to add to the agenda the web-hosting for the IGC, and an
> appropriate arrangement to hold IGC funds. If you won't be present at the
> meeting could you please send any suggestions you may have? We can
> brainstorm possible solutions for presentation to the list for discussion
> and approval.
>
> Therefore the agenda now looks like:
> Way forward for the IGC (with possible action items for re-focusing and
> re-energizing IGC)
> Web hosting arrangements
> Alternative to Paypal for IGC funds
> Review of this year's IGF from a civil society perspective
>
> Looking forward to seeing you there
>
> Mawaki and Deirdre
> Co-coordinators.
>
> --
> “The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
> Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
“The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
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From suresh at hserus.net  Sat Aug 23 13:14:36 2014
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2014 22:44:36 +0530
Subject: [governance] IGC meeting in Istanbul
In-Reply-To: <CAMz5XN57gG0gAmUqi+rWYggfoVb0jZ0_nKXAqPvNQcUBMgFHzg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMz5XN41EQrisWd+6OKVHy6goaTfMdefOJTBACvjsQODevE2jQ@mail.gmail.com> <73C04E81-B00C-44C2-A875-8DB0366CDE41@hserus.net> <CAMz5XN57gG0gAmUqi+rWYggfoVb0jZ0_nKXAqPvNQcUBMgFHzg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2F865227-5B1F-4DA6-BCCB-103D7A1F4040@hserus.net>

Note - if paying for webhosting is the only financial transaction you expect to make, ever, for IGC, then it would be easier for any individual to pay for the hosting from his personal card.

Non profit tax exempt status lets you receive funding for, for example, co co travel, day to day expenses of operating IGC etc, but there is of course a bit (ha) of bookkeeping you will be stuck with.

--srs (iPad)

> On 23-Aug-2014, at 22:35, Deirdre Williams <williams.deirdre at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Thank you for the comment Suresh. Can anyone clarify these points?
> Deirdre
> 
> 
>> On 23 August 2014 12:50, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net> wrote:
>> Is IGC registered as a non profit somewhere? The funds would be best held in that jurisdiction, to satisfy tax norms.  
>> 
>> Registering a 501 c3 and getting tax exemption is rather complicated stateside, maybe it is easier in say Geneva?
>> 
>> --srs (iPad)
>> 
>>> On 23-Aug-2014, at 21:57, Deirdre Williams <williams.deirdre at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>> 
>>> We just received confirmation that  the IGC has been allocated Bilateral Room 1 (Rumeli -1 Level / Room 9)  for Friday, 5 September, 12.30 - 14.00 for our meeting in part due to lack of availability of an adequate time slot on an earlier day in the week. On the other hand, a meeting on the last day will also give us an opportunity to share impressions of this year's IGF.
>>> 
>>> We are proposing to add to the agenda the web-hosting for the IGC, and an appropriate arrangement to hold IGC funds. If you won't be present at the meeting could you please send any suggestions you may have? We can brainstorm possible solutions for presentation to the list for discussion and approval.
>>> 
>>> Therefore the agenda now looks like:
>>> Way forward for the IGC (with possible action items for re-focusing and re-energizing IGC) 
>>> Web hosting arrangements
>>> Alternative to Paypal for IGC funds
>>> Review of this year's IGF from a civil society perspective
>>> 
>>> Looking forward to seeing you there
>>> 
>>> Mawaki and Deirdre
>>> Co-coordinators.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> “The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>> 
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>> 
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> “The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
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From williams.deirdre at gmail.com  Sat Aug 23 14:06:25 2014
From: williams.deirdre at gmail.com (Deirdre Williams)
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2014 14:06:25 -0400
Subject: [governance] IGC meeting in Istanbul
In-Reply-To: <2F865227-5B1F-4DA6-BCCB-103D7A1F4040@hserus.net>
References: <CAMz5XN41EQrisWd+6OKVHy6goaTfMdefOJTBACvjsQODevE2jQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <73C04E81-B00C-44C2-A875-8DB0366CDE41@hserus.net> <CAMz5XN57gG0gAmUqi+rWYggfoVb0jZ0_nKXAqPvNQcUBMgFHzg@mail.gmail.com>
 <2F865227-5B1F-4DA6-BCCB-103D7A1F4040@hserus.net>
Message-ID: <CAMz5XN59iy59gb919RMK+7fpw2Jmunk+DLdDdzW0Up7D90w_ng@mail.gmail.com>

On 23 August 2014 13:14, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net> wrote:

> ...
>
> Non profit tax exempt status lets you receive funding for, for example, co
> co travel, day to day expenses of operating IGC etc, but there is of course
> a bit (ha) of bookkeeping you will be stuck with.
>

This aspect (not the bookkeeping necessarly) needs to be part of the "way
forward" discussion.
Deirdre

>
> --srs (iPad)
>
> On 23-Aug-2014, at 22:35, Deirdre Williams <williams.deirdre at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Thank you for the comment Suresh. Can anyone clarify these points?
> Deirdre
>
>
> On 23 August 2014 12:50, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net> wrote:
>
>> Is IGC registered as a non profit somewhere? The funds would be best held
>> in that jurisdiction, to satisfy tax norms.
>>
>> Registering a 501 c3 and getting tax exemption is rather complicated
>> stateside, maybe it is easier in say Geneva?
>>
>> --srs (iPad)
>>
>> On 23-Aug-2014, at 21:57, Deirdre Williams <williams.deirdre at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Colleagues,
>>
>> We just received confirmation that  the IGC has been allocated Bilateral
>> Room 1 (Rumeli -1 Level / Room 9)  for Friday, 5 September, 12.30 -
>> 14.00 for our meeting in part due to lack of availability of an adequate
>> time slot on an earlier day in the week. On the other hand, a meeting on
>> the last day will also give us an opportunity to share impressions of this
>> year's IGF.
>>
>> We are proposing to add to the agenda the web-hosting for the IGC, and an
>> appropriate arrangement to hold IGC funds. If you won't be present at the
>> meeting could you please send any suggestions you may have? We can
>> brainstorm possible solutions for presentation to the list for discussion
>> and approval.
>>
>> Therefore the agenda now looks like:
>> Way forward for the IGC (with possible action items for re-focusing and
>> re-energizing IGC)
>> Web hosting arrangements
>> Alternative to Paypal for IGC funds
>> Review of this year's IGF from a civil society perspective
>>
>> Looking forward to seeing you there
>>
>> Mawaki and Deirdre
>> Co-coordinators.
>>
>> --
>> “The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
>> Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> “The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
> Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
>
>


-- 
“The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
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From subi.igp at gmail.com  Sat Aug 23 14:22:39 2014
From: subi.igp at gmail.com (Subi Chaturvedi)
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2014 23:52:39 +0530
Subject: [governance] Re: [bestbits] Why IGF? Chair's blog on 2014 IGF-
 Istanbul
In-Reply-To: <CACTo+v_HWUENe+JsJ1yVCSkj8XgYF-snAYKtp8Wg2SP3avezPg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFfuWVkszfNtYBNt0L4znnhzjqus_ygbWHx18ytsTH2fOyB7Aw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFfuWV=EJfYSqWchNXveJkgZXtaVbBdKV5NADpDmk9F2-G53Qw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACTo+v_HWUENe+JsJ1yVCSkj8XgYF-snAYKtp8Wg2SP3avezPg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFfuWVn8W+KOFEUZVJLPw+kM--P6T+s-uMKWbWcq5PTtxHMCyg@mail.gmail.com>

Many thanks Mawaki for raising this. While cutting the umbilical chord
never actually cropped up, the ambiguity around several issues has been a
major cause for concern.  When we could be engaging with other most
substantive issues we have over the last couple of years atleast during my
tenure have often deliberated over both the continuation and perpetuity.
Recently the questions have become more acute and sharper. I am certain
others before me have too. Institutional memory points towards. Many
colleagues have steadfastly tried to turn the lens inwards- how do we do
more, be more and not just rate better?  Vlada in particular has been
consistent in ensuring we look at self improvement. Colleagues have also
shared rolling docs and working papers inadditon to the official reports
from IGF improvements from WGEC and other fora. Many suggestions have been
implemented but there's a lot more that needs to be done.  It has been an
incredible team to work with. The secretariat does an amazing job as well
but they need strengthening too and resources have often been a concern.
With Netmundial and other fora globally asking more of, and from the IGF
and rightly so, we are in the process of serious introspection and
reflection. This is a good time- of churning and flux. There have been
significant changes this year at the IGF planning, process and content. We
hope the programme content will reflect some of these. We also called for
an open space and the same has been created at the IGF this year to convene
informally and share freely and can be used by all the participants.  In
Janis we have an excellent Chair who brings with him a vast repertoire of
expertise, having worked with a multitude of stakeholders and
intergovernmental organisations alike.

I strongly urge all of you to join us on Day 3 -September 4th from
9.30-12.30. Main session -main room. It has been a long and evolutionary
process. This year the main will have two segments.

The first is about The role of IGF and the evolving internet ecosystem
especially in response to Netmundial, ITU, WSIS, UNGA and other Fora.

The second segment which is being conducted in a town hall format
simulation, is about Strengthening and improving the IGF and examining the
way forward.

The IGF secretariat had put out a call for policy questions seeking
community input. In addition to the questions we received excellent inputs
and several questions too, that we would like to see addressed-including
the elephant in the room. Should IGF be looking at negotiated outcome docs.
Panelists with brief opening remarks will speak to these questions keeping
a major portion of the main open for comments, suggestions and inputs. All
the participants present and online will be encouraged to (JAM) in the
Just-A-Minute spirit. No more passive audience in the room, going forward.

This session will hope to see maximum interventions from the floor. We hope
in the Netmundial spirit many, minute long inputs will emerge from the
participants and we have collectively attempted through innovations in both
format and substance to change how main mains at IGFs will unfold.

I remember Milton distinctly saying at the open Consultation and MAG
meeting in 2012 that we need to make main sessions more productive. Last
year under Markus's leadership the idea of 5-7 policy questions was
introduced at the Main sessions.  Mathew Shears made another valuable
intervention by refocusing our energies and asking each main to have a
distinct focus and address specific questions. Best Practice Forums are a
welcome addition this year.

ISOC has initiatiated a new initiative which will provide a platform for
all donors to support the IGF. An open meeting is scheduled on day 0. This
allows us and all small and medium donors also to bypass the complex
agreement process which has been in place. Contributions however small will
now be channelled and processed easily.

Looking forward to more free thinking and lots of thinking aloud :)

The session will have 3 substantive rapporteurs and will attempt to capture
all the suggestions made.

I do hope that we have a productive IGF 2014 optimised towards playing its
rightful role in #netgov.  And it is upto us to chart the way forward.  Do
please join us for the session on day 3 morning.

Warmest

Subi Chaturvedi

On 23 Aug 2014 21:32, "Mawaki Chango" <kichango at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Subi, for forwarding this.
>
> Just a thought while reading Amb. Janis Karklins' blog entry... and a
question. I admit I haven't paid as much attention as I should have to the
outcomes of some of the consultations held over the last year or so. Has
the idea ever come up to make the IGF become a more autonomous
entity/process from the UN? I explain. A UN process has set up the IGF.
After 10 years, now that everybody including those who initially opposed it
seems to agree that it's useful to have it, can we start thinking of a
different model from one where UN (UNDESA, CSTD, UNGA, etc.) only calls the
shot as to whether the IGF will survive or not, etc.? Maybe link IGF to a
collegial process where the UN for sure plus CSOs and individuals,
Academics, Regional Intergovernmental Organizations (EU, AU, etc.) and I*
Organizations (ICANN, ISOC, etc.) will come together and make the
"meta-decisions" about IGF? With all those entities (or groups of entities)
bringing their legitimacy to the process (so the UN is not off the hook)
but not a single one will have to decide about the fate of IGF, and they
will also take some responsibility to bring funding to the process at
whatever level they can afford.
>
> Please don't yet assume that I fully agree with myself here; just
thinking out loud.
>
> Mawaki
>
> ==========================================
> Mawaki Chango, PhD
> Founder and CEO
> DIGILEXIS
> http://www.digilexis.com
> m.chango at digilexis.com | kichango at gmail.com
> Twitter: @digilexis & @prodigilexis
> Mob. (+225) 57 55 57 53 | 44 48 77 64
> Skype: digilexis
> ==========================================
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 6:40 PM, Subi Chaturvedi <subi.igp at gmail.com>
wrote:
>>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> Hope you will make time to please see the attached blog written by the
Chair of the MAG Amb. Janis Karklins about the 2014 IGF- Istanbul.
>>
>> You may also wish to translate it into your language, for your local
press and share it amongst your networks and communities.
>>
>> While the choice always exists, to critique and engage constructively,
especially when you see room for improvement. The IGF, is a space which
remains an amplifier of issues around a free, open , secure, interoperable
Internet. CS has always looked at the internet as an enabler of free speech
and expression. Human rights violations and policies/laws which are
ambiguous or loosely worded impact digital trust and our ability to
actualise potential. Enacted without public consultation they are often
misused and interpreted at will more often than not failing to address the
core problem. Privacy and surveillance are increasingly being pitted
against national security and the two being posited as mutually exclusive.
Governments globally have had a history of engaging with the private
sector. When we look at the issues from purely resources standpoint, they
win. Many friends and colleagues have rightly pointed out that it is
important to recognise the voices which aren't in the room in
multistakeholder participation. And venues are expensive, in destination
cities for meetings. Most CS can ill afford, being present at these
meetings in person, keeping track alone of all the different events on the
IG calendar is a challenge. But it is our tenacity and will to hang in
there, our sheer determination through continuous engagement that, ushers
in change. Friends and colleagues who can't make it this year largely due
to resource gaps will be missed. Each voice brings in a diversity of
perspective and plurality of issues. While we recognise the conflicts and
discourses within, there is undeniable value in speaking truth to power and
being in the room and on the table. Change is slow but it is certain.
>>
>> There is value in engaging because we have the most at stake. Internet
and Freedom. Both we care for, deeply. The IGF is a safe space and we must
not shy away from raising issues that concern us as a community, however
thorny or uncomfortable they might be.
>>
>> Hope to see you in Istanbul, dialogue, debate discuss.
>>
>> warmest
>>
>> Subi Chaturvedi
>>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> Hope you will make time to please see the attached blog written by the
Chair of the MAG Amb. Janis Karklins about the 2014 IGF- Istanbul.
>>
>> You may also wish to translate it into your language, for your local
press and share it amongst your networks and communities.
>>
>> While the choice always remains, to critique and engage constructively,
the IGF still, is a space which remains an amplifier of issues around a
free, open , secure, interoperable Internet. CS has always looked at the
internet as an enabler of free speech and expression. Human rights
violations and policies/laws which are ambiguous or loosely worded impact
digital trust and our ability to actualise potential. Enacted without
public consultation they are often misused and interpreted at will more
often than not failing to address the core problem. Privacy
and surveillance are increasingly being pitted against national security
and the two being posited as mutually exclusive. Governments globally have
had a history of engaging with the private sector. When we look at the
issues from purely resources standpoint, they win. Many friends and
colleagues have rightly pointed out that it is important to recognise the
voices which aren't in the room in multistakeholder participation. And
venues are expensive more often than not, in destination cities for
meetings. Most CS can ill afford, being present at meetings, keeping track
alone of all the different events on the IG calendar is a challenge. But it
is our tenacity and will to hang in there, our sheer determination through
continuous engagement that, ushers in change. Friends and colleagues who
can't make it for whatever reason and most often due to resource gaps will
be missed. Each voice brings in a diversity of perspective and plurality of
issues. While we recognise the conflicts and discourses within, there is
undeniable value in speaking truth to power and being in the room and on
the table. Change is slow but it is certain.
>>
>> There is value in engaging because we have the most at stake. Internet
and Freedom. Both we care for, deeply. The IGF is a safe space and we must
not shy away from raising issues that concern us as a community, however
thorny or uncomfortable they might be.
>>
>> Hope to see you in Istanbul, dialogue, debate discuss.
>>
>> warmest
>>
>> Subi Chaturvedi
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      bestbits at lists.bestbits.net.
>> To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:
>>      http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits
>
>
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From bzs at world.std.com  Sat Aug 23 18:44:51 2014
From: bzs at world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2014 18:44:51 -0400
Subject: [governance] Why we are boycotting the IGF (by Yaman Akdeniz
 and Kerem Altiparmak)
In-Reply-To: <CACu5V_ug3HTEdYJ1z5M9Mw4zdXbz2ALbEjLTRDjhgiqp_V1QfQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACu5V_ug3HTEdYJ1z5M9Mw4zdXbz2ALbEjLTRDjhgiqp_V1QfQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <21497.6499.147349.307627@world.std.com>


From: Chinmayi Arun <chinmayiarun at gmail.com>
>I just ran into this piece
><http://www.indexoncensorship.org/2014/08/boycotting-internet-governance-forum/>
>by Yaman Akdeniz and Kerem Altiparmak. Civil society folks who will be at
>the IGF this year may find it interesting- it flags significant
> internet-related concerns in Turkey.

Although I certainly understand the utility of making a statement vis
a vis such a boycott I have a different view.

Personally I'd encourage an IGF in Pyongyang and everyone attend it.

To boycott such an event is, other than the hope someone might notice
the press releases, nearly indistinguishable from being forbidden from
attending.

Silence is silence.

I suppose if a boycott mounted to the point that it crippled or even
cancelled the meeting that might attract some more attention to the
underlying issue at least among the I* community. It hasn't gone
unnoticed.

But to my mind better to bring everyone together in the clear light of
day and confront these issues than to hope that one's non-appearance
will effect a statement.

Notice, for example, some of the state pariahs who are welcomed to the
United Nations and even given a podium.

It's not that I have a polyanna-ish hope in dialogue so much as a
pessimistic view of non-dialogue.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

The World              | bzs at TheWorld.com           | http://www.TheWorld.com
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD        | Dial-Up: US, PR, Canada
Software Tool & Die    | Public Access Internet     | SINCE 1989     *oo*

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From isolatedn at gmail.com  Sun Aug 24 03:18:39 2014
From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian M)
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2014 12:48:39 +0530
Subject: [governance] Why we are boycotting the IGF (by Yaman Akdeniz
 and Kerem Altiparmak)
In-Reply-To: <21497.6499.147349.307627@world.std.com>
References: <CACu5V_ug3HTEdYJ1z5M9Mw4zdXbz2ALbEjLTRDjhgiqp_V1QfQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<21497.6499.147349.307627@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <CAHyAo0EtmUF+++bO1RNdpZZX0MKWS72=2QaXqXn_xSN9ixPx1A@mail.gmail.com>

+1 Barry.

Sivasubramanian M <https://www.facebook.com/sivasubramanian.muthusamy>



On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 4:14 AM, Barry Shein <bzs at world.std.com> wrote:

>
> From: Chinmayi Arun <chinmayiarun at gmail.com>
> >I just ran into this piece
> ><
> http://www.indexoncensorship.org/2014/08/boycotting-internet-governance-forum/
> >
> >by Yaman Akdeniz and Kerem Altiparmak. Civil society folks who will be at
> >the IGF this year may find it interesting- it flags significant
> > internet-related concerns in Turkey.
>
> Although I certainly understand the utility of making a statement vis
> a vis such a boycott I have a different view.
>
> Personally I'd encourage an IGF in Pyongyang and everyone attend it.
>
> To boycott such an event is, other than the hope someone might notice
> the press releases, nearly indistinguishable from being forbidden from
> attending.
>
> Silence is silence.
>
> I suppose if a boycott mounted to the point that it crippled or even
> cancelled the meeting that might attract some more attention to the
> underlying issue at least among the I* community. It hasn't gone
> unnoticed.
>
> But to my mind better to bring everyone together in the clear light of
> day and confront these issues than to hope that one's non-appearance
> will effect a statement.
>
> Notice, for example, some of the state pariahs who are welcomed to the
> United Nations and even given a podium.
>
> It's not that I have a polyanna-ish hope in dialogue so much as a
> pessimistic view of non-dialogue.
>
> --
>         -Barry Shein
>
> The World              | bzs at TheWorld.com           |
> http://www.TheWorld.com
> Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD        | Dial-Up: US, PR,
> Canada
> Software Tool & Die    | Public Access Internet     | SINCE 1989     *oo*
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
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From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de  Sun Aug 24 14:00:55 2014
From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang=22?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2014 20:00:55 +0200
Subject: AW: [governance] Re: [bestbits] Looking for your input - NetMundial
 Initiative
References:  <CAK-FJAdYqXwXPXzEMiT-SdMypBA=DdCO+WtGeTTiMN0jqWqBkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <4DC51A4B-4361-441A-A324-EDB576F08177@glocom.ac.jp>
Message-ID:  <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8016425CA@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>

Hi Adam,

good questions. I also support Rauls approach. Key point at this stage is to broaden the support for the IGF and NMI is one great option to do this. BTW, I got yesterday an invitation to join the Geneva meeting but I can not go due to our 14th Meeting of the ICANN Studienkreis in Sofia (Bulgaria), August 28/29. 

In the light of the Monday Meeting in Istanbul we should use the IGC Meeting on Friday to enhance a CSmid-term strategy.

Wolfgang



DAM;




-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org im Auftrag von Adam
Gesendet: Sa 23.08.2014 14:38
An: Carolina Rossini
Cc: Brett Solomon; <bestbits at lists.bestbits.net> bestbits at lists.bestbits.net&gt; irp at lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org; governance at lists.igcaucus.org IGC
Betreff: [governance] Re: [bestbits] Looking for your input - NetMundial Initiative
 
Dear Carolina,

Thank you for sharing this.  A few comments below.


On Aug 23, 2014, at 9:24 AM, Carolina Rossini wrote:

> 
> 
> Dear all,
> 
> 
> 
> As some of you might have heard and also seen the leaked documents, the World Economic Forum, supported by ICANN, will host the workshop "NetMundial Initiative" on 28th of August, in Geneva. 
> 
> 
> Besides leaked documents, an "official" site is now up (as of yesterday) at http://www.weforum.org/issues/global-internet-governance, with list of participants, agenda, a short briefing and a FAQ. It worth reading it - the FAQ is a very "interesting" piece. See it here - http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_2NETmundialInitiativeFAQ.pdf. 
> 
> 


Shame it had to leak.  Fadi announced the initiative at the ICANN meeting in London (around 23rd June) and the lead CS participants were already known at that time.  But only rumor, no information, until the leak of course...


> Background regarding invitations and communication with NMI organizers: None of the CS members invited to the workshop know exactly how the selection process happened. In my personal case, I heard I was being invited from colleagues in Brazil, but you can refer to Brett's previous email (I paste it below) regarding to some of our earlier concerns regarding the lack of transparency related to the invitation process. 
> 
> 
> Yesterday, a group of CS members had a call with Fadi and folks from the WEF - the first of its kind. The call was arranged in response to a request from CS invited for the Geneva meeting.  


Who were the other "civil society" people who joined the call with Fadi/WEF?  

And news on membership of the Steering Committee?


> Below are some key concerns that were drafted ahead of the call. A primary theme on the call was lack of transparency and failure to adequately engage CS as part of the planning process for this workshop and its follow-up processes.  We also conveyed how problematic that it was about the lack of southern CS representation. 


Except for yourself, is there anyone?  Skimming the participant list, the only other person I recognize as having a experience of Internet governance at national/regional level global south is Barrack Otieno (tech community, Kenya and East Africa IGFs and other).


> Besides the issues below, and in regard to participation, we asked ICANN and WEF to let CS chose its own representatives and that the representation should rotate, so it is inclusive.


from <http://www.weforum.org/issues/global-internet-governance>  this initiative is "Inspired by the NETmundial..." "Carry forward the spirit of NETmundial..."'

NETmundial document is couldn't be clearer "Stakeholder representatives appointed to multistakeholder Internet governance processes should be selected through open, democratic, and transparent processes. Different stakeholder groups should self-manage their processes based on inclusive, publicly known, well defined and accountable mechanisms."  

Please ask WEF to cut the sweet words and either follow the "spirit" or find another brand :-)  Quite an issue over this during the lead-up to NETmundial.  Should be a civil society non-negotiable.  


> We also asked for remote participation and that the WEF sets a platform for remote commentary, which should happen in advance, during and after the meeting. The initiative was presented to us as an experiment that will initially last for roughly 6 months.  Nobody from CS who is attending the workshop has decided to publicly support or not the initiative.


Will you attend as representatives of civil society or for your own organizations? 

Is WEF (etc) covering costs of participation, travel to Geneva?  


> At the workshop, we will observe, understand what is still up in the air and what may have been decided in advance by the conveners, and then decide.  But for that to happen, it would be very helpful to hear more in the main IG lists.
> 
> 
> So, the primary purpose of this email is to reach out to you with a very practical ask: The agenda presents a series of questions this "Initiative" wants to address. Those on the call thought it would be a good idea to ask in a series of CS lists involved in IG for your views and comments regarding those questions. Refer to the agenda here: http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_3NETmundialInitiativeLaunchAgenda.pdf
>     
> It would be extremely helpful to those attending to get your input on the questions and issues presented in the agenda by Tuesday Aug 26, so we can incorporate your thoughts and comments into our interventions at the workshop. Please let us know if you have any other questions or concerns.
> 
>  


Long way to go for an agenda doesn't have much time for discussion.  

Topic that most interests me is (from the NETmundial document) "There is a need to develop multistakeholder mechanisms at the national level owing to the fact that a good portion of Internet governance issues should be tackled at this level. National multistakeholder mechanisms should serve as a link between local discussions and regional and global instances. Therefore a fluent coordination and dialogue across those different dimensions is essential."  Two items on the agenda seem to address this.

and text I think perhaps helpful :

"National and regional level Internet governance structures and mechanisms must emerge, guided by the same global principles to ensure alignment [*]. The synchronization between the different levels ensures a healthy, inclusive, and balanced stakeholder representation locally while contributing to the coordination of activities taking place at the global level and avoiding additional frictions in the Internet."

[* i.e. NETmunudal principles, and text from the Panel On Global Internet Cooperation and Governance Mechanisms, contribution to NETmundial http://internetgovernancepanel.org/ ]

How can this new WEF initiative help develop, support/sustain such national level mechanisms, will the members commit to supporting such activities.  Does need commitment, we have been talking about such mechanisms since 2000/01.  

The bullets below look good. 

Adam  

(not subscribed to redlatam at lists.accessnow.org, igcbp-talk <igcbp-talk at googlegroups.com> and steering at lists.bestbits.net so removed from cc list, but added "governance at lists.igcaucus.org IGC" <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>)





>  Cheers,
>  
>  C
> 
> 
>  
> 	. 
> Welcome the interest and desire of ICANN and the WEF to leverage and further build on the NETmundial outcomes
> 
> 	. Recognize that there have been some challenges in bringing this group together and many concerns as to the processes by which this occurred
> 
> 
> 	. Convey broader civil society concerns that the convening process was inconsistent with the NETmundial principles - greater openness and transparency is required in order to achieve any legitimacy 
> 
> 
> 	. Insist that the process going forward be true to principles of openness, transparency and inclusivity and that there be mechanisms to ensure that fullest participation is facilitated
> 
> 
> 	. Insist that the NMI support, underpin and strengthen the IGF and its work 
> 
> 	. Insist that the NMI not duplicate or subsume work of existing entities to promote NETmundial outcomes but rather support and encourage such work and find new avenues
> 
> 
> 	. Seek clarification and work to identify the medium to long term goals of NMI - what is the NMI's added value, specific purpose and what are (at most) the three clearly identifiable and achievable goals that it is going to set for itself
> 
> 
> 	. Work to ensure that NMI is not operating in a vacuum and that it is appropriately linked to 1NET, the IGF, the various business and civil society platforms, etc., and to ensure that it is appropriately taking into account other processes such as the WSIS+10 review 
> 
> 
> 	. Suggest that a meeting in January around the fringes of Davos may not be suitably accessible to the majority of interested parties given the costs, etc., of that particular event
> 
> 
> 	. Seek to put "more meat on the bones" of the proposed actions, noting where such actions are already taking place (and their progress), and suggest that it may be wise to start with one action rather than multiple [encouraging the implementation of NETmundial outcomes - particularly governance principles and processes - at the national and regional levels, for example]
> 
> 
> 	. Suggest an open brainstorming session at Aug meeting and an online process to solicit ideas for taking the NETmundial outcomes forward. (Perhaps the Initiative should be open to suggestions as to possible actions on an ongoing basis.)
> 
> 
> 	. Better understand the role of the WEF and how the "host" is going to rotate and how the meetings will be structured so that they can encourage the greatest possible engagement and participation
> 
> 
> 	. Ensure that the steering committee going forward is put together through appropriately transparent and inclusive processes. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Brett Solomon <brett at accessnow.org>
> Date: Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 2:41 PM
> Subject: [bestbits] NetMundial Initiative
> To: "&lt,bestbits at lists.bestbits.net&gt," <bestbits at lists.bestbits.net>
> 
> Hey there,
> 
> As many of you know there is a post-Sao Paolo process emerging, proposed by Fadi Chehadi at ICANN, called the Net Mundial Initiative. Various versions of the documents laying out this concept have been floating around and are now leaked.
> 
> A number of individuals including myself were alerted to this process before the documents were 'leaked' and have since communicated it more broadly amongst civil society. Clearly there are a number of procedural and substantive questions about what the Net Mundial Initiative will seek to accomplish, who will be involved, and what the processes for inclusion and decision-making will be moving forward.
> 
> As the documents indicate, the next step of the Net Mundial Initiative will be a meeting in Geneva on August 28th. A number of members of civil society who have been invited to join the Net Mundial Initiative will attend this event, including Carolina Rossini (Public Knowledge), Eileen Donahoe (HRW), and Bill Drake (though perhaps more there as a representative of the academic community).
> 
> I have not communicated this yet to the organizers, but I'm  planning on going to the event to learn more, but Access has not decided yet whether we will accept the invitation to join the Steering Committee. Regardless, I personally will consult our global membership and other civil society partners to garner an array of perspectives before attending. 
> 
> From what I have been told, the process will be hosted by the World Economic Forum for a temporary period from August to February 2015. In addition to those listed above, a number of concerns have been raised about the Initiative including:
> 
> 	. Participation: selection process, attendance, and representation from the global south
> 	. WEF as host: corporate nature of the host, perceptions of corporate capture, approach to development and elitism
> 	. Objectives: what is the NMI trying to achieve, and how does it relate to other key elements of the IG landscape, in particular the IGF.
> 
> All of the people that Fadi and WEF reached out to that I've talked to have expressed pretty deep concerns back to the organizers, including pushing hard to make sure civil society is represented and for this process in general to be more open, transparent, and inclusive of those from the global south. It would be good if we could have as open lines of communication as possible, including at the event, so if people have any thoughts or concerns they can then share them on or off list. Those who are attending should be a conduit for communication. 
> 
> Additionally, we have requested a meeting between civil society representatives and Fadi and Klaus (of WEF), so there will be a further opportunity to voice concerns there, which those going to Geneva will report back on. 
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Brett
> 
> PS I am on Access team offsite so might be slow to respond. 
> 
> Brett Solomon
> Executive Director 
> Access | accessnow.org 
> 
> +1 917 969 6077 
> @solomonbrett
> Key ID: 0x4EDC17EB
> Fingerprint: C02C A886 B0FC 3A25 FF9F ECE8 FCDF BA23 4EDC 17EB
> 
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      bestbits at lists.bestbits.net.
> To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:
>      http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> -- 
> Carolina Rossini 
> Vice President, International Policy
> Public Knowledge
> http://www.publicknowledge.org/
> + 1 6176979389 | skype: carolrossini | @carolinarossini
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     bestbits at lists.bestbits.net.
> To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:
>     http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits





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From bzs at world.std.com  Sun Aug 24 15:08:25 2014
From: bzs at world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2014 15:08:25 -0400
Subject: [governance] Why we are boycotting the IGF (by Yaman Akdeniz
 and Kerem Altiparmak)
In-Reply-To: <CAHyAo0EtmUF+++bO1RNdpZZX0MKWS72=2QaXqXn_xSN9ixPx1A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACu5V_ug3HTEdYJ1z5M9Mw4zdXbz2ALbEjLTRDjhgiqp_V1QfQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<21497.6499.147349.307627@world.std.com>
	<CAHyAo0EtmUF+++bO1RNdpZZX0MKWS72=2QaXqXn_xSN9ixPx1A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <21498.14377.536363.975717@world.std.com>


Thank you Siva.

The one exception I would add would be a situation where a venue made
certain potential attendees feel unsafe or unreasonably constrained.

For example there are venues where women would feel unsafe and at best
confined to airport<->hotel more or less. Those should be considered
unworkable venues. There are countries some can't travel to or only
with great bureaucratic difficulty as another example. There are other
analagous examples. I'm not sure I'd be comfortable traveling to
Mogadishu for a conference at present, or Mosul, though I hope that
will change one day.

As an act of protest, again, I think the press release has some merit
in raising awareness of an issue. But the actual act of boycott itself
is probably counter-productive. Perhaps a paradox, or just a
problematic approach.


From: Sivasubramanian M <isolatedn at gmail.com>
>+1 Barry.

On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 4:14 AM, Barry Shein <bzs at world.std.com> wrote:

>
> From: Chinmayi Arun <chinmayiarun at gmail.com>
> >I just ran into this piece
> ><
> http://www.indexoncensorship.org/2014/08/boycotting-internet-governance-forum/
> >
> >by Yaman Akdeniz and Kerem Altiparmak. Civil society folks who will be at
> >the IGF this year may find it interesting- it flags significant
> > internet-related concerns in Turkey.
>
> Although I certainly understand the utility of making a statement vis
> a vis such a boycott I have a different view.
>
> Personally I'd encourage an IGF in Pyongyang and everyone attend it.
>
> To boycott such an event is, other than the hope someone might notice
> the press releases, nearly indistinguishable from being forbidden from
> attending.
>
> Silence is silence.
>
> I suppose if a boycott mounted to the point that it crippled or even
> cancelled the meeting that might attract some more attention to the
> underlying issue at least among the I* community. It hasn't gone
> unnoticed.
>
> But to my mind better to bring everyone together in the clear light of
> day and confront these issues than to hope that one's non-appearance
> will effect a statement.
>
> Notice, for example, some of the state pariahs who are welcomed to the
> United Nations and even given a podium.
>
> It's not that I have a polyanna-ish hope in dialogue so much as a
> pessimistic view of non-dialogue.
>
> --
>         -Barry Shein
>
> The World              | bzs at TheWorld.com           |
> http://www.TheWorld.com
> Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD        | Dial-Up: US, PR,
> Canada
> Software Tool & Die    | Public Access Internet     | SINCE 1989     *oo*
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
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>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
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>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
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>
>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,=
sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#333333">+1 Barry.</div></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><a href=3D"https:/=
/www.facebook.com/sivasubramanian.muthusamy" target=3D"_blank">Sivasubraman=
ian M</a><br>
<br></div></div>
<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 4:14 AM, Barry S=
hein <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bzs at world.std.com" target=3D"_=
blank">bzs at world.std.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmai=
l_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left=
:1ex">
<br>
From: Chinmayi Arun &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:chinmayiarun at gmail.com">chinmayia=
run at gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<div class=3D"">&gt;I just ran into this piece<br>
</div>&gt;&lt;<a href=3D"http://www.indexoncensorship.org/2014/08/boycottin=
g-internet-governance-forum/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.indexoncensorshi=
p.org/2014/08/boycotting-internet-governance-forum/</a>&gt;<br>
<div class=3D"">&gt;by Yaman Akdeniz and Kerem Altiparmak. Civil society fo=
lks who will be at<br>
&gt;the IGF this year may find it interesting- it flags significant<br>
&gt; internet-related concerns in Turkey.<br>
<br>
</div>Although I certainly understand the utility of making a statement vis=
<br>
a vis such a boycott I have a different view.<br>
<br>
Personally I&#39;d encourage an IGF in Pyongyang and everyone attend it.<br=
>
<br>
To boycott such an event is, other than the hope someone might notice<br>
the press releases, nearly indistinguishable from being forbidden from<br>
attending.<br>
<br>
Silence is silence.<br>
<br>
I suppose if a boycott mounted to the point that it crippled or even<br>
cancelled the meeting that might attract some more attention to the<br>
underlying issue at least among the I* community. It hasn&#39;t gone<br>
unnoticed.<br>
<br>
But to my mind better to bring everyone together in the clear light of<br>
day and confront these issues than to hope that one&#39;s non-appearance<br=
>
will effect a statement.<br>
<br>
Notice, for example, some of the state pariahs who are welcomed to the<br>
United Nations and even given a podium.<br>
<br>
It&#39;s not that I have a polyanna-ish hope in dialogue so much as a<br>
pessimistic view of non-dialogue.<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
--<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -Barry Shein<br>
<br>
The World=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | bzs at TheWorld.co=
m=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| <a href=3D"http://www.TheWorld.=
com" target=3D"_blank">http://www.TheWorld.com</a><br>
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | D=
ial-Up: US, PR, Canada<br>
Software Tool &amp; Die=C2=A0 =C2=A0 | Public Access Internet=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0| SINCE 1989=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*oo*<br>
<br>
</font></span><br>_________________________________________________________=
___<br>
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For all other list information and functions, see:<br>
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=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.igcaucus.org/" target=3D"_blank">=
http://www.igcaucus.org/</a><br>
<br>
Translate this email: <a href=3D"http://translate.google.com/translate_t" t=
arget=3D"_blank">http://translate.google.com/translate_t</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

-- 
        -Barry Shein

The World              | bzs at TheWorld.com           | http://www.TheWorld.com
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD        | Dial-Up: US, PR, Canada
Software Tool & Die    | Public Access Internet     | SINCE 1989     *oo*

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From avri at acm.org  Sun Aug 24 16:17:38 2014
From: avri at acm.org (Avri Doria)
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2014 16:17:38 -0400
Subject: [governance] Why we are boycotting the IGF (by Yaman Akdeniz
 and Kerem Altiparmak)
In-Reply-To: <21498.14377.536363.975717@world.std.com>
References: <CACu5V_ug3HTEdYJ1z5M9Mw4zdXbz2ALbEjLTRDjhgiqp_V1QfQ@mail.gmail.com>	<21497.6499.147349.307627@world.std.com>	<CAHyAo0EtmUF+++bO1RNdpZZX0MKWS72=2QaXqXn_xSN9ixPx1A@mail.gmail.com> <21498.14377.536363.975717@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <53FA4862.2060903@acm.org>

Hi,

It think people boycotting the IGF will have a rich selection at the
Ungoverance Forum (which I pref to think of as an IGFringe - something
every IGF should have).  I also think there is real value in boycotts.
Especially when people not boycotting, work to make sure the message of
the boycotters is brought into the boycotted event.

For those of us not boycotting, we should find way to make sure the
message of the boycotters is heard inside the IGF.  I think visiting
locations that are engaged in Autocracy 2.0 makes sense for something
like the IGF, though best when there is an IGFringe and there is support
for the boycott's message inside the venue.  Locations still engaged in
Autocracy 1.0 and those that are dangerous for groups like women and
LGBTQI are best avoided.

avri


On 24-Aug-14 15:08, Barry Shein wrote:
> 
> Thank you Siva.
> 
> The one exception I would add would be a situation where a venue made
> certain potential attendees feel unsafe or unreasonably constrained.
> 
> For example there are venues where women would feel unsafe and at best
> confined to airport<->hotel more or less. Those should be considered
> unworkable venues. There are countries some can't travel to or only
> with great bureaucratic difficulty as another example. There are other
> analagous examples. I'm not sure I'd be comfortable traveling to
> Mogadishu for a conference at present, or Mosul, though I hope that
> will change one day.
> 
> As an act of protest, again, I think the press release has some merit
> in raising awareness of an issue. But the actual act of boycott itself
> is probably counter-productive. Perhaps a paradox, or just a
> problematic approach.
> 
> 
> From: Sivasubramanian M <isolatedn at gmail.com>
>> +1 Barry.
> 
> On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 4:14 AM, Barry Shein <bzs at world.std.com> wrote:
> 
>>
>> From: Chinmayi Arun <chinmayiarun at gmail.com>
>>> I just ran into this piece
>>> <
>> http://www.indexoncensorship.org/2014/08/boycotting-internet-governance-forum/
>>>
>>> by Yaman Akdeniz and Kerem Altiparmak. Civil society folks who will be at
>>> the IGF this year may find it interesting- it flags significant
>>> internet-related concerns in Turkey.
>>
>> Although I certainly understand the utility of making a statement vis
>> a vis such a boycott I have a different view.
>>
>> Personally I'd encourage an IGF in Pyongyang and everyone attend it.
>>
>> To boycott such an event is, other than the hope someone might notice
>> the press releases, nearly indistinguishable from being forbidden from
>> attending.
>>
>> Silence is silence.
>>
>> I suppose if a boycott mounted to the point that it crippled or even
>> cancelled the meeting that might attract some more attention to the
>> underlying issue at least among the I* community. It hasn't gone
>> unnoticed.
>>
>> But to my mind better to bring everyone together in the clear light of
>> day and confront these issues than to hope that one's non-appearance
>> will effect a statement.
>>
>> Notice, for example, some of the state pariahs who are welcomed to the
>> United Nations and even given a podium.
>>
>> It's not that I have a polyanna-ish hope in dialogue so much as a
>> pessimistic view of non-dialogue.
>>
>> --
>>         -Barry Shein
>>
>> The World              | bzs at TheWorld.com           |
>> http://www.TheWorld.com
>> Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD        | Dial-Up: US, PR,
>> Canada
>> Software Tool & Die    | Public Access Internet     | SINCE 1989     *oo*
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
> <div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,=
> sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#333333">+1 Barry.</div></div><div class=
> =3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><a href=3D"https:/=
> /www.facebook.com/sivasubramanian.muthusamy" target=3D"_blank">Sivasubraman=
> ian M</a><br>
> <br></div></div>
> <br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 4:14 AM, Barry S=
> hein <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bzs at world.std.com" target=3D"_=
> blank">bzs at world.std.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmai=
> l_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left=
> :1ex">
> <br>
> From: Chinmayi Arun &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:chinmayiarun at gmail.com">chinmayia=
> run at gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
> <div class=3D"">&gt;I just ran into this piece<br>
> </div>&gt;&lt;<a href=3D"http://www.indexoncensorship.org/2014/08/boycottin=
> g-internet-governance-forum/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.indexoncensorshi=
> p.org/2014/08/boycotting-internet-governance-forum/</a>&gt;<br>
> <div class=3D"">&gt;by Yaman Akdeniz and Kerem Altiparmak. Civil society fo=
> lks who will be at<br>
> &gt;the IGF this year may find it interesting- it flags significant<br>
> &gt; internet-related concerns in Turkey.<br>
> <br>
> </div>Although I certainly understand the utility of making a statement vis=
> <br>
> a vis such a boycott I have a different view.<br>
> <br>
> Personally I&#39;d encourage an IGF in Pyongyang and everyone attend it.<br=
>>
> <br>
> To boycott such an event is, other than the hope someone might notice<br>
> the press releases, nearly indistinguishable from being forbidden from<br>
> attending.<br>
> <br>
> Silence is silence.<br>
> <br>
> I suppose if a boycott mounted to the point that it crippled or even<br>
> cancelled the meeting that might attract some more attention to the<br>
> underlying issue at least among the I* community. It hasn&#39;t gone<br>
> unnoticed.<br>
> <br>
> But to my mind better to bring everyone together in the clear light of<br>
> day and confront these issues than to hope that one&#39;s non-appearance<br=
>>
> will effect a statement.<br>
> <br>
> Notice, for example, some of the state pariahs who are welcomed to the<br>
> United Nations and even given a podium.<br>
> <br>
> It&#39;s not that I have a polyanna-ish hope in dialogue so much as a<br>
> pessimistic view of non-dialogue.<br>
> <span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
> --<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -Barry Shein<br>
> <br>
> The World=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | bzs at TheWorld.co=
> m=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| <a href=3D"http://www.TheWorld.=
> com" target=3D"_blank">http://www.TheWorld.com</a><br>
> Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | D=
> ial-Up: US, PR, Canada<br>
> Software Tool &amp; Die=C2=A0 =C2=A0 | Public Access Internet=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
> =C2=A0| SINCE 1989=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*oo*<br>
> <br>
> </font></span><br>_________________________________________________________=
> ___<br>
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org">govern=
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> For all other list information and functions, see:<br>
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> arget=3D"_blank">http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance</a><br>
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> 

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From gideonrop at gmail.com  Mon Aug 25 01:57:05 2014
From: gideonrop at gmail.com (Gideon)
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 08:57:05 +0300
Subject: [governance] Call for ICANN to Educate and Not Mislead GAC
Message-ID: <CAP2ohHFNmfiYfbQ2GbJ-HWesi1bRrvdTG5GxouLqpCTZ+6Ck2A@mail.gmail.com>

FYI...

*Call for ICANN to Educate and Not Mislead GAC*

http://www.circleid.com/posts/20140814_call_for_icann_to_educate_and_not_mislead_gac/

I read with interest the recent blog
<https://www.icann.org/news/blog/update-enhancing-icann-accountability#.U9lCqV_YeVI>
written by Theresa Swinehart a Sr. Advisor to the President on Strategy.
She wrote: "The most critical element of this [ICANN Transition] process is
trust and alignment. To ensure success on this accountability track, we
must as a community work closely together to make sure that the final
process is meaningful. There is plenty of work to be done in an ambitious
period of time."

Post the completion of the ICANN 50 London meeting, I wrote a Commentary on
this forum titled "Thank You GNSO - From the SHE.africa
<http://www.circleid.com/posts/20140703_thank_you_gnso_from_the_she_dot_africa/>”,
endorsing a call by the ICANN's Generic Names Supporting Organization
(GNSO) which unanimously endorsed a joint statement in support of the
creation of an independent accountability mechanism. As a former GNSO
member I thanked GNSO for their good efforts and reminded them of DCA
Trust's call for the same mechanisms. This was even before the NTIA
transition became an issue. I also pointed the concerns we expressed to US
Congress. We pointed out in our letter Congress has the overarching
responsibility for the oversight of ICANN. I also commented on some of my
observations from the outcome of the ICANN 50 London meeting regarding the
misleading message that was being conveyed by ICANN CEO on DCA's .africa
gTLD application.

*DCA GAC Responses valuable to ICANN's Accountability improvements*

In a follow up note, I wrote directly to the GNSO to bring to their
attention the above mentioned matters. The letter can be found here
<http://www.dotconnectafrica.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/DotConnectAfrica-Letter-to-GNSO-Note-of-Thanks-on-the-unanimous-endorsement-in-support-of-creation-of-an-Independent-Accountability-mechanism-14-Aug-2014.pdf>
[PDF]. In this letter, I also referenced DCA's response to the recent GAC
Advice conveyed in the GAC London Communiqué on africa. DCA pointed out
specific deficiencies that could be cited in various forms. These included
inappropriate communications, misleading information, incompetency and a
lack of understanding that exists within the ICANN structures in handling
its matters. Our response and observations should be taken in this context,
and in adherence to any accountability and transparency improvement
measures.

It is within this context that I am compelled to post again DCA's case to
shed *more* light on what I think would be of public interest. In
particular the activities of GAC and ICANN's reaction to it.

*Inappropriate GAC Advice on .Africa in London GAC Communiqué, while under
an IRP*

Amid these developments and in a surprising move, the London meeting saw
the GAC give yet another Advice to the ICANN board concerning DCA Trust's
application on .africa, an application which is currently going through
ICANN's Independent Review process (IRP) created by ICANN and set forth in
its Bylaws.

In reality, the IRP is a process for independent third-party review of
Board actions. DCA Trust initiated an IRP seeking that an independent
third-party panel adjudicate the rights that DCA has asserted in its Notice
of IRP, and in particular, the right to have its application treated
fairly, transparently, and with due diligence by ICANN in accordance with
ICANN's Bylaws, Article of Incorporation, and the gTLD Applicant Guidebook.
The IRP is currently ongoing and the discussions and Panel discussions are
hosted both on ICANN and DCA site here
<http://www.dotconnectafrica.org/icann-related-2/independent-review-process-dca-vs-icann/>.


Where the New gTLD Program is concerned, the role of GAC requires the
representatives to understand the gTLD Applicant Guidebook, the ICANN
Bylaws and the IRP process contained therein, a process which as noted is
independent of both ICANN and the applicants. *From the questions raised in
the GAC Advice and in the available transcripts of the various GAC meetings
during ICANN 50 and during past ICANN meetings, it is our deep concern that
ICANN allows the GAC to intervene in ICANN's evaluation and delegation of
new gTLDs without ensuring that the GAC representatives actually understand
ICANN processes.*

*Lack of Proper Education of GAC members*

A lack of proper education is the clear explanation for certain GAC members
urging ICANN to truncate the IRP and/or compromise the independence of the
proceeding, which is according to ICANN, an applicant's only method of
legal recourse. Based upon the GAC's recent actions and advice,
DotConnectAfrica has also raised various questions to ICANN which are of
the public interest.

*ICANN has a duty to educate the members of the Internet community at large
as well as the members of the GAC themselves, as part of its obligation to
act in a transparent and accountable manner.*

It is on this basis and others which we incorporated in our full GAC
response that we felt strongly that the GAC Advice given to ICANN during
ICANN 50 in London demonstrated both the African Union's inappropriate
efforts to determine the outcome of the applications for .africa and
ICANN's improper acquiescence to the GAC's demands. We strongly urged ICANN
not to accept this advice.

*In addition, ICANN must prevent that a GAC member use its position on the
GAC as a tool to promote its own interest, as the African Union has
attempted to do with respect to .Africa, by prompting a GAC advice for
ICANN to delegate .africa to the AU-backed applicant competing with DCA
Trust.*

In summary, we objected to the GAC's advice as improper and showing a
failure on the part of ICANN to adequately educate and inform GAC
representatives. We expect ICANN to decline to follow the London GAC Advice
with regard to .africa, consistent with its obligations under the Bylaws
and other documents governing ICANN and the IRP.

Our response was detailed and the full response can be found here
<http://www.dotconnectafrica.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/DotConnectAfrica-Trust-GAC-Response-August-3-2014.pdf>
[PDF]. Additionally for those following the IRP, the direct links can also
be found here
<http://www.dotconnectafrica.org/icann-related-2/independent-review-process-dca-vs-icann/>.


*By Sophia Bekele <http://www.circleid.com/members/5906/>, CEO of
DotConnectAfrica. Ms. Sophia Bekele is a former ICANN generic Names
Supporting Organization (gNSO) Council policy advisor from 2005-2007 &
contributed to policy over the new gTLD programme and IDNs. She is a
founder and spearhead of the Yes2DotAfrica campaign
<http://www.dotconnectafrica.org/>. Bekele is a business and corporate
executive, an international entrepreneur, a thought leader in Corporate and
ICT Governance, international policy, Business Strategy, Internet, ICT &
development. Her Profiles on sophiabekele.com <http://www.sophiabekele.com>
/ wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophia_Bekele>.*


Regards

Gideon Rop

DotConnectAfrica
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From nnenna75 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 25 02:51:27 2014
From: nnenna75 at gmail.com (Nnenna Nwakanma)
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 06:51:27 +0000
Subject: The IGC is not an organisation. Was Re: [governance] IGC meeting in
 Istanbul
Message-ID: <CADFgh13ZtvSN6WeM6UE0EFYhe+DaQOYiY51e3Dv=jFOFN73ycQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi there

No, the IGC  has is not an organisation.  It is an online forum.
The Charter and other stuff are still on http://igcaucus.org

Best

Nnenna




> On 23 August 2014 12:50, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net> wrote:
>
>> Is IGC registered as a non profit somewhere? The funds would be best held
>> in that jurisdiction, to satisfy tax norms.
>>
>>
>>
>
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From nnenna75 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 25 03:00:29 2014
From: nnenna75 at gmail.com (Nnenna Nwakanma)
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 07:00:29 +0000
Subject: [governance] Re: [bestbits] Looking for your input - NetMundial
 Initiative
In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8016425CA@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
References: <CAK-FJAdYqXwXPXzEMiT-SdMypBA=DdCO+WtGeTTiMN0jqWqBkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <4DC51A4B-4361-441A-A324-EDB576F08177@glocom.ac.jp> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8016425CA@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
Message-ID: <CADFgh1341tqzDoeKe99C6rFAf0edqG+VsgTqChk=n1N83PSGMg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all

The position of the World Wide Web Foundation is open and on the blog:
https://webfoundation.org/2014/08/the-fall-of-internet-governance/

SNIP = = =

Here are the proposals we’ll be bringing to these forums to help ensure
that international commitment leverages change on the ground:

   - *Commit to policy coherence.* Companies and governments who espouse
   participatory, democratic processes and defend human rights in Internet
   governance forums should not turn around and negotiate away our Web rights
   in secretive negotiations on topics such as digital copyright,
   cybersecurity, spectrum licensing and surveillance cooperation.
   - *Popularise the issues. *Companies won’t change until they feel their
   profits are threatened. Governments won’t change unless they fear being
   voted out of power. So we need a collective effort to ensure that people
   around the globe understand and care about these issues. We’re playing our
   part by leading the Web We Want <http://webwewant.org/> campaign — and
   as part of this we’re planning a major festival with the UK’s Southbank
   Centre
   <http://www.southbankcentre.co.uk/whatson/festivals-series/web-we-want>,
   which will take place across three weekends, beginning in September. We
   also fund and connect local activists working for a free and open Web all
   over the world, from Privacy Cafes
   <https://webwewant.org/projects/The_Cryptoparty_Tour_by_Privacy_Cafe> in
   the Netherlands, to public awareness efforts and advocacy campaigns in
   Mexico <https://webwewant.org/projects/CriptoRally_in_Mexico>, Nigeria
   <https://webwewant.org/projects/Web_We_Want_Radio_Phone_Ins> and beyond
   <https://webwewant.org/news/Announcing_the_Web_25_Year_of_Action_Grants>.
   Through our Web Index <http://www.thewebindex.org/> project, we’re
   tracking the performance of countries around the world on digital rights
   issues such as access, affordability, and online privacy. How can you help?
   - *Include more voices.* Technical guidance from “Internet Governance
   Experts” is critical in this field to avoid policy blunders, but the
   conversation is too important to be left to them alone. Representatives of
   other constituencies need to turn their minds to this issue and put forward
   solutions. The World Economic Forum initiative will reach wider business
   interests beyond the tech sector, which is positive in itself — but not
   everybody gets to go to Davos. We need equally creative and well-resourced
   ways to engage small-medium enterprises and start-ups, union leaders, the
   arts and culture community, anti-poverty campaigners, women’s rights
   groups, youth movements, parliamentarians and more.
   - *Open up.* Internet governance affects everyone, and so discussions
   should happen in the open, supported by transparent mechanisms that
   strengthen the accountability of governments, technical bodies, and
   technology corporations to the public. The Internet Governance Forum is to
   be commended for live-streaming their sessions, and we call on the
   organisers of the NETmundial Initiative and the Plenipotentiary to do the
   same. We’ll be providing full and honest write-ups of all our participation
   here too.
   - *Invest in national level change. *International norms are important —
   and we’ve gone as far as to call for a global “Magna Carta” for the
   Internet. Yet it is national level laws, regulations, business practices,
   and market incentives that most powerfully shape the Internet—for better or
   worse. It’s time for a concerted effort to build and pass an “Internet bill
   of rights” in every country that will enshrine citizens’ rights to access,
   privacy, and freedom of expression and association online. To do this
   requires sustained attention, political leadership, and investment in the
   capacity and resources of local civil society.

SNIP =  = =


Nnenna



On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 6:00 PM, "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" <
wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de> wrote:

> Hi Adam,
>
> good questions. I also support Rauls approach. Key point at this stage is
> to broaden the support for the IGF and NMI is one great option to do this.
> BTW, I got yesterday an invitation to join the Geneva meeting but I can not
> go due to our 14th Meeting of the ICANN Studienkreis in Sofia (Bulgaria),
> August 28/29.
>
> In the light of the Monday Meeting in Istanbul we should use the IGC
> Meeting on Friday to enhance a CSmid-term strategy.
>
> Wolfgang
>
>
>
> DAM;
>
>
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org im Auftrag von Adam
> Gesendet: Sa 23.08.2014 14:38
> An: Carolina Rossini
> Cc: Brett Solomon; <bestbits at lists.bestbits.net>
> bestbits at lists.bestbits.net&gt; irp at lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org;
> governance at lists.igcaucus.org IGC
> Betreff: [governance] Re: [bestbits] Looking for your input - NetMundial
> Initiative
>
> Dear Carolina,
>
> Thank you for sharing this.  A few comments below.
>
>
> On Aug 23, 2014, at 9:24 AM, Carolina Rossini wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Dear all,
> >
> >
> >
> > As some of you might have heard and also seen the leaked documents, the
> World Economic Forum, supported by ICANN, will host the workshop
> "NetMundial Initiative" on 28th of August, in Geneva.
> >
> >
> > Besides leaked documents, an "official" site is now up (as of yesterday)
> at http://www.weforum.org/issues/global-internet-governance, with list of
> participants, agenda, a short briefing and a FAQ. It worth reading it - the
> FAQ is a very "interesting" piece. See it here -
> http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_2NETmundialInitiativeFAQ.pdf.
> >
> >
>
>
> Shame it had to leak.  Fadi announced the initiative at the ICANN meeting
> in London (around 23rd June) and the lead CS participants were already
> known at that time.  But only rumor, no information, until the leak of
> course...
>
>
> > Background regarding invitations and communication with NMI organizers:
> None of the CS members invited to the workshop know exactly how the
> selection process happened. In my personal case, I heard I was being
> invited from colleagues in Brazil, but you can refer to Brett's previous
> email (I paste it below) regarding to some of our earlier concerns
> regarding the lack of transparency related to the invitation process.
> >
> >
> > Yesterday, a group of CS members had a call with Fadi and folks from the
> WEF - the first of its kind. The call was arranged in response to a request
> from CS invited for the Geneva meeting.
>
>
> Who were the other "civil society" people who joined the call with
> Fadi/WEF?
>
> And news on membership of the Steering Committee?
>
>
> > Below are some key concerns that were drafted ahead of the call. A
> primary theme on the call was lack of transparency and failure to
> adequately engage CS as part of the planning process for this workshop and
> its follow-up processes.  We also conveyed how problematic that it was
> about the lack of southern CS representation.
>
>
> Except for yourself, is there anyone?  Skimming the participant list, the
> only other person I recognize as having a experience of Internet governance
> at national/regional level global south is Barrack Otieno (tech community,
> Kenya and East Africa IGFs and other).
>
>
> > Besides the issues below, and in regard to participation, we asked ICANN
> and WEF to let CS chose its own representatives and that the representation
> should rotate, so it is inclusive.
>
>
> from <http://www.weforum.org/issues/global-internet-governance>  this
> initiative is "Inspired by the NETmundial..." "Carry forward the spirit of
> NETmundial..."'
>
> NETmundial document is couldn't be clearer "Stakeholder representatives
> appointed to multistakeholder Internet governance processes should be
> selected through open, democratic, and transparent processes. Different
> stakeholder groups should self-manage their processes based on inclusive,
> publicly known, well defined and accountable mechanisms."
>
> Please ask WEF to cut the sweet words and either follow the "spirit" or
> find another brand :-)  Quite an issue over this during the lead-up to
> NETmundial.  Should be a civil society non-negotiable.
>
>
> > We also asked for remote participation and that the WEF sets a platform
> for remote commentary, which should happen in advance, during and after the
> meeting. The initiative was presented to us as an experiment that will
> initially last for roughly 6 months.  Nobody from CS who is attending the
> workshop has decided to publicly support or not the initiative.
>
>
> Will you attend as representatives of civil society or for your own
> organizations?
>
> Is WEF (etc) covering costs of participation, travel to Geneva?
>
>
> > At the workshop, we will observe, understand what is still up in the air
> and what may have been decided in advance by the conveners, and then
> decide.  But for that to happen, it would be very helpful to hear more in
> the main IG lists.
> >
> >
> > So, the primary purpose of this email is to reach out to you with a very
> practical ask: The agenda presents a series of questions this "Initiative"
> wants to address. Those on the call thought it would be a good idea to ask
> in a series of CS lists involved in IG for your views and comments
> regarding those questions. Refer to the agenda here:
> http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_3NETmundialInitiativeLaunchAgenda.pdf
> >
> > It would be extremely helpful to those attending to get your input on
> the questions and issues presented in the agenda by Tuesday Aug 26, so we
> can incorporate your thoughts and comments into our interventions at the
> workshop. Please let us know if you have any other questions or concerns.
> >
> >
>
>
> Long way to go for an agenda doesn't have much time for discussion.
>
> Topic that most interests me is (from the NETmundial document) "There is a
> need to develop multistakeholder mechanisms at the national level owing to
> the fact that a good portion of Internet governance issues should be
> tackled at this level. National multistakeholder mechanisms should serve as
> a link between local discussions and regional and global instances.
> Therefore a fluent coordination and dialogue across those different
> dimensions is essential."  Two items on the agenda seem to address this.
>
> and text I think perhaps helpful :
>
> "National and regional level Internet governance structures and mechanisms
> must emerge, guided by the same global principles to ensure alignment [*].
> The synchronization between the different levels ensures a healthy,
> inclusive, and balanced stakeholder representation locally while
> contributing to the coordination of activities taking place at the global
> level and avoiding additional frictions in the Internet."
>
> [* i.e. NETmunudal principles, and text from the Panel On Global Internet
> Cooperation and Governance Mechanisms, contribution to NETmundial
> http://internetgovernancepanel.org/ ]
>
> How can this new WEF initiative help develop, support/sustain such
> national level mechanisms, will the members commit to supporting such
> activities.  Does need commitment, we have been talking about such
> mechanisms since 2000/01.
>
> The bullets below look good.
>
> Adam
>
> (not subscribed to redlatam at lists.accessnow.org, igcbp-talk <
> igcbp-talk at googlegroups.com> and steering at lists.bestbits.net so removed
> from cc list, but added "governance at lists.igcaucus.org IGC" <
> governance at lists.igcaucus.org>)
>
>
>
>
>
> >  Cheers,
> >
> >  C
> >
> >
> >
> >       .
> > Welcome the interest and desire of ICANN and the WEF to leverage and
> further build on the NETmundial outcomes
> >
> >       . Recognize that there have been some challenges in bringing this
> group together and many concerns as to the processes by which this occurred
> >
> >
> >       . Convey broader civil society concerns that the convening process
> was inconsistent with the NETmundial principles - greater openness and
> transparency is required in order to achieve any legitimacy
> >
> >
> >       . Insist that the process going forward be true to principles of
> openness, transparency and inclusivity and that there be mechanisms to
> ensure that fullest participation is facilitated
> >
> >
> >       . Insist that the NMI support, underpin and strengthen the IGF and
> its work
> >
> >       . Insist that the NMI not duplicate or subsume work of existing
> entities to promote NETmundial outcomes but rather support and encourage
> such work and find new avenues
> >
> >
> >       . Seek clarification and work to identify the medium to long term
> goals of NMI - what is the NMI's added value, specific purpose and what are
> (at most) the three clearly identifiable and achievable goals that it is
> going to set for itself
> >
> >
> >       . Work to ensure that NMI is not operating in a vacuum and that it
> is appropriately linked to 1NET, the IGF, the various business and civil
> society platforms, etc., and to ensure that it is appropriately taking into
> account other processes such as the WSIS+10 review
> >
> >
> >       . Suggest that a meeting in January around the fringes of Davos
> may not be suitably accessible to the majority of interested parties given
> the costs, etc., of that particular event
> >
> >
> >       . Seek to put "more meat on the bones" of the proposed actions,
> noting where such actions are already taking place (and their progress),
> and suggest that it may be wise to start with one action rather than
> multiple [encouraging the implementation of NETmundial outcomes -
> particularly governance principles and processes - at the national and
> regional levels, for example]
> >
> >
> >       . Suggest an open brainstorming session at Aug meeting and an
> online process to solicit ideas for taking the NETmundial outcomes forward.
> (Perhaps the Initiative should be open to suggestions as to possible
> actions on an ongoing basis.)
> >
> >
> >       . Better understand the role of the WEF and how the "host" is
> going to rotate and how the meetings will be structured so that they can
> encourage the greatest possible engagement and participation
> >
> >
> >       . Ensure that the steering committee going forward is put together
> through appropriately transparent and inclusive processes.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: Brett Solomon <brett at accessnow.org>
> > Date: Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 2:41 PM
> > Subject: [bestbits] NetMundial Initiative
> > To: "&lt,bestbits at lists.bestbits.net&gt," <bestbits at lists.bestbits.net>
> >
> > Hey there,
> >
> > As many of you know there is a post-Sao Paolo process emerging, proposed
> by Fadi Chehadi at ICANN, called the Net Mundial Initiative. Various
> versions of the documents laying out this concept have been floating around
> and are now leaked.
> >
> > A number of individuals including myself were alerted to this process
> before the documents were 'leaked' and have since communicated it more
> broadly amongst civil society. Clearly there are a number of procedural and
> substantive questions about what the Net Mundial Initiative will seek to
> accomplish, who will be involved, and what the processes for inclusion and
> decision-making will be moving forward.
> >
> > As the documents indicate, the next step of the Net Mundial Initiative
> will be a meeting in Geneva on August 28th. A number of members of civil
> society who have been invited to join the Net Mundial Initiative will
> attend this event, including Carolina Rossini (Public Knowledge), Eileen
> Donahoe (HRW), and Bill Drake (though perhaps more there as a
> representative of the academic community).
> >
> > I have not communicated this yet to the organizers, but I'm  planning on
> going to the event to learn more, but Access has not decided yet whether we
> will accept the invitation to join the Steering Committee. Regardless, I
> personally will consult our global membership and other civil society
> partners to garner an array of perspectives before attending.
> >
> > From what I have been told, the process will be hosted by the World
> Economic Forum for a temporary period from August to February 2015. In
> addition to those listed above, a number of concerns have been raised about
> the Initiative including:
> >
> >       . Participation: selection process, attendance, and representation
> from the global south
> >       . WEF as host: corporate nature of the host, perceptions of
> corporate capture, approach to development and elitism
> >       . Objectives: what is the NMI trying to achieve, and how does it
> relate to other key elements of the IG landscape, in particular the IGF.
> >
> > All of the people that Fadi and WEF reached out to that I've talked to
> have expressed pretty deep concerns back to the organizers, including
> pushing hard to make sure civil society is represented and for this process
> in general to be more open, transparent, and inclusive of those from the
> global south. It would be good if we could have as open lines of
> communication as possible, including at the event, so if people have any
> thoughts or concerns they can then share them on or off list. Those who are
> attending should be a conduit for communication.
> >
> > Additionally, we have requested a meeting between civil society
> representatives and Fadi and Klaus (of WEF), so there will be a further
> opportunity to voice concerns there, which those going to Geneva will
> report back on.
> >
> > Best wishes
> >
> > Brett
> >
> > PS I am on Access team offsite so might be slow to respond.
> >
> > Brett Solomon
> > Executive Director
> > Access | accessnow.org
> >
> > +1 917 969 6077
> > @solomonbrett
> > Key ID: 0x4EDC17EB
> > Fingerprint: C02C A886 B0FC 3A25 FF9F ECE8 FCDF BA23 4EDC 17EB
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >      bestbits at lists.bestbits.net.
> > To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:
> >      http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > --
> > Carolina Rossini
> > Vice President, International Policy
> > Public Knowledge
> > http://www.publicknowledge.org/
> > + 1 6176979389 | skype: carolrossini | @carolinarossini
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >     bestbits at lists.bestbits.net.
> > To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:
> >     http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
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From ajp at glocom.ac.jp  Mon Aug 25 03:02:09 2014
From: ajp at glocom.ac.jp (Adam)
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 16:02:09 +0900
Subject: [governance] IGC Funds
In-Reply-To: <CAMz5XN4MSPUF9Q+RfRGjTZZr2=8sXvEhfux+hu_XRwFHhoaVXQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMz5XN6TtWd2pUoYdZGo3OWpL6YfufdUjzYOR2LOhKsBtvpaMA@mail.gmail.com> <CABvxTGqK_PyH1iK3SCJMpx7o2HO+emH3301VEhL3UCqJBN5=Fg@mail.gmail.com> <CAMz5XN4MSPUF9Q+RfRGjTZZr2=8sXvEhfux+hu_XRwFHhoaVXQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7D0BC507-E7F6-416D-8FC7-D7B82E36600A@glocom.ac.jp>

How much is needed each year ?

Adam


On Aug 23, 2014, at 1:11 AM, Deirdre Williams wrote:

> Please can the IGC  discuss the issue and reach some conclusions?
> We note what Jeremy and Tom are saying.
> As well as the hosting issue we need to think seriously about how to deal with any funds that we may have. If you have any knowledge or expertise in that area please share with the rest of us.
> Thank you all
> Deirdre and Mawaki
> Co-coordinators
> 
> 
> On 22 August 2014 11:33, Jeremy Hunsinger <jhuns at vt.edu> wrote:
> Maybe switch to a host that gives non-profits free hosting?  i know dreamhost does this. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> “The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


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From suresh at hserus.net  Mon Aug 25 03:56:47 2014
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 13:26:47 +0530
Subject: The IGC is not an organisation. Was Re: [governance] IGC
 meeting in Istanbul
In-Reply-To: <CADFgh13ZtvSN6WeM6UE0EFYhe+DaQOYiY51e3Dv=jFOFN73ycQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADFgh13ZtvSN6WeM6UE0EFYhe+DaQOYiY51e3Dv=jFOFN73ycQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1480c2aca60.27e9.4f968dcf8ecd56c9cb8acab6370fcfe0@hserus.net>

Then some individual donor had better step up and pay for the hosting in 
his or her own name and capacity


On 25 August 2014 12:22:13 pm Nnenna Nwakanma <nnenna75 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi there
>
> No, the IGC  has is not an organisation.  It is an online forum.
> The Charter and other stuff are still on http://igcaucus.org
>
> Best
>
> Nnenna
>
>
>
>
> > On 23 August 2014 12:50, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Is IGC registered as a non profit somewhere? The funds would be best held
> >> in that jurisdiction, to satisfy tax norms.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
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To be removed from the list, visit:
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From kichango at gmail.com  Mon Aug 25 04:47:13 2014
From: kichango at gmail.com (Mawaki Chango)
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 08:47:13 +0000
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [cs-coord] Internet Governance Civil Society
 Co-ordination Group
In-Reply-To: <9654C72A204645ADB76611DDEFB39038@Toshiba>
References: <9654C72A204645ADB76611DDEFB39038@Toshiba>
Message-ID: <CACTo+v8ustc6Po+7+q7jVggi=SHKiCpY7xgGWx0gwZPZCaK69g@mail.gmail.com>

FYI, this was released to the media moments ago.

 Mawaki

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Ian Peter <ian.peter at ianpeter.com>
Date: Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 8:36 AM
Subject: [cs-coord] Internet Governance Civil Society Co-ordination Group
To: cs-coord at lists.bestbits.net


  The Internet Governance Civil Society Co-ordination Group (CSCG) would
like to announce the addition of new members and the reappointment of an
independent chairperson.

Formed in 2013 in response to the need for civil society groups to work
more closely together, particularly on appointing representatives  to
outside bodies, the founding members of this "coalition of coalitions" were

·         Internet Governance Caucus, an organisation with over 200
organisational and individual members founded in 2004 to specifically
address emerging internet governance issues. Represented by Dr Mawaki
Chango, Co-Coordinator

·         Association for Progressive Communications,  an international
membership-based network founded in 1990 who work together in using ICTs to
empower and support others to build strategic communities and promote easy
and affordable access to a free and open internet. Represented by Chat
Garcia Ramilo, Deputy Executive Director

·         Best Bits, a network of civil society organisations from across
the world, who come together to share and collaborate on individual and
joint initiatives in support of human rights and other broadly shared civil
society interests in Internet governance. Represented by Jeremy Malcolm,
Steering Committee member.

·         The Non-Commercial Stakeholders Group, (NCSG) an organization of
more than 400 non-commercial organizations and individuals who develop
Internet policy through participation in ICANN's policy development process.
NCSG promotes noncommercial interests in the formulation of ICANN policy
including human rights, academic, development, educational, and cultural
interests.  Represented by Robin Gross, NCSG Executive Committee

·         Diplo Foundation, which has a focus on assisting participants
from small and developing states to build the capacity to engage
effectively in Internet Governance and diplomacy. Since 2003, Diplo's
Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme (IGCBP) has involved over
1500 professionals and activists from 163 states. Diplo Foundation is
represented by Ginger (Virginia) Paque,  Internet Governance Programmes.



The new members announced today are

·         Just Net Coalition, formed in 2014, a global coalition with
specific interests in democracy, human rights and social justice.
Represented by Norbert Bollow, Co-convenor

·         Civicus, a global civil society alliance with over 1000 members
in 120 countries. Represented by Mandeep Tiwana, Head of Policy and Research



The newly expanded group announced as its first task the reappointment of
Ian Peter as independent chair, with a term expiring in September 2016. Ian
Peter has been involved in internet public access initiatives for over 25
years with various civil society organisations and was approached to be the
first independent chairperson when CSCG was formed in 2013.

"I am honoured to be able to work with such a group of representative civil
society bodies", Ian Peter stated. "My aim in facilitating decision making
with CSCG will be to ensure that the diverse range of voices and
perspectives within civil society are heard, respected, and represented,
and that civil society works together to advance its causes in the internet
governance area".

CSCG sees its primary role as ensuring a co-ordinated civil society
response and conduit when it comes to making civil society appointments to
outside bodies (such as IGF, NetMundial, and 1Net). It does not see itself
as a policy making body. Further developments are expected in coming months
as the expanded group begins to address a range of issues where civil
society presence and effectiveness can be enhanced.

CSCG can be contacted initially through cscg at internetgov-cs.org






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From kichango at gmail.com  Mon Aug 25 04:53:55 2014
From: kichango at gmail.com (Mawaki Chango)
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 08:53:55 +0000
Subject: The IGC is not an organisation. Was Re: [governance] IGC
 meeting in Istanbul
In-Reply-To: <1480c2aca60.27e9.4f968dcf8ecd56c9cb8acab6370fcfe0@hserus.net>
References: <CADFgh13ZtvSN6WeM6UE0EFYhe+DaQOYiY51e3Dv=jFOFN73ycQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1480c2aca60.27e9.4f968dcf8ecd56c9cb8acab6370fcfe0@hserus.net>
Message-ID: <CACTo+v-VXLjV8yJk1EADYRzARnuiVQgOCRKCUVxFWbns5RqC4g@mail.gmail.com>

This might be an item to put on the agenda (in fact it is the sub-item of
an item already there) for the Istanbul meeting and beyond for further
discussion here.
Not for the sake of web hosting cost, but in the context of the way forward
for IGC. I don't remember that option having ever been discussed in the
open.

Mawaki



On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 7:56 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net>
wrote:

>   Then some individual donor had better step up and pay for the hosting
> in his or her own name and capacity
>
> On 25 August 2014 12:22:13 pm Nnenna Nwakanma <nnenna75 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi there
>>
>> No, the IGC  has is not an organisation.  It is an online forum.
>> The Charter and other stuff are still on http://igcaucus.org
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Nnenna
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 23 August 2014 12:50, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Is IGC registered as a non profit somewhere? The funds would be best
>>>> held in that jurisdiction, to satisfy tax norms.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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From ajp at glocom.ac.jp  Mon Aug 25 05:02:06 2014
From: ajp at glocom.ac.jp (Adam)
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 18:02:06 +0900
Subject: The IGC is not an organisation. Was Re: [governance] IGC
 meeting in Istanbul
In-Reply-To: <CACTo+v-VXLjV8yJk1EADYRzARnuiVQgOCRKCUVxFWbns5RqC4g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADFgh13ZtvSN6WeM6UE0EFYhe+DaQOYiY51e3Dv=jFOFN73ycQ@mail.gmail.com> <1480c2aca60.27e9.4f968dcf8ecd56c9cb8acab6370fcfe0@hserus.net> <CACTo+v-VXLjV8yJk1EADYRzARnuiVQgOCRKCUVxFWbns5RqC4g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <92A74791-AAA7-44E0-8A04-F12F45A0EDE7@glocom.ac.jp>

But do you have an idea of how much is needed?

If donations made to the coordinators (or others, Jeremy?) in person, what currency?  Would be good to know before we met, or all you'll get from me is Turkish Lira :-)

Adam


On Aug 25, 2014, at 5:53 PM, Mawaki Chango wrote:

> This might be an item to put on the agenda (in fact it is the sub-item of an item already there) for the Istanbul meeting and beyond for further discussion here.
> Not for the sake of web hosting cost, but in the context of the way forward for IGC. I don't remember that option having ever been discussed in the open.
> 
> Mawaki
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 7:56 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net> wrote:
> Then some individual donor had better step up and pay for the hosting in his or her own name and capacity
> 
> On 25 August 2014 12:22:13 pm Nnenna Nwakanma <nnenna75 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi there
>> 
>> No, the IGC  has is not an organisation.  It is an online forum. 
>> The Charter and other stuff are still on http://igcaucus.org
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Nnenna
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> On 23 August 2014 12:50, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net> wrote:
>>> Is IGC registered as a non profit somewhere? The funds would be best held in that jurisdiction, to satisfy tax norms.  
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
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>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
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>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
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> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
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> 
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>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
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From ajp at glocom.ac.jp  Mon Aug 25 06:11:05 2014
From: ajp at glocom.ac.jp (Adam)
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 19:11:05 +0900
Subject: [governance] =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?How_the_web_lost_its_way_=96_and_it?=
 =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?s_founding_principles?=
Message-ID: <AC3FE8AF-02F1-4D60-9ADA-3EB739FA4AD1@glocom.ac.jp>

When Tim Berners-Lee invented the world wide web 24 years ago he thought he'd created an egalitarian tool that would share information for the greater good. But it hasn't quite worked out like that. What went wrong?

more at:

<http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/aug/24/internet-lost-its-way-tim-berners-lee-world-wide-web>

Adam
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From parminder at itforchange.net  Mon Aug 25 06:26:48 2014
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 15:56:48 +0530
Subject: [governance] =?UTF-8?Q?How_the_web_lost_its_way_=E2=80=93_and?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?_its_founding_principles?=
In-Reply-To: <AC3FE8AF-02F1-4D60-9ADA-3EB739FA4AD1@glocom.ac.jp>
References: <AC3FE8AF-02F1-4D60-9ADA-3EB739FA4AD1@glocom.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <53FB0F68.6060405@itforchange.net>


On Monday 25 August 2014 03:41 PM, Adam wrote:
> When Tim Berners-Lee invented the world wide web 24 years ago he thought he'd created an egalitarian tool that would share information for the greater good. But it hasn't quite worked out like that. What went wrong?
>
> more at:
>
> <http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/aug/24/internet-lost-its-way-tim-berners-lee-world-wide-web>

Precisely, what went wrong! And for us, the IG civil society, we can 
probably do our own introspection... Even till mid 2000 there was much 
hope from the web and the Internet, which is around the time this civil 
society space begin to become active.. And then in 2010, Wired magazine 
brought out that cover page with 'the web is dead', and still we only 
are going down hill since....

Ok, my hypothesis is, civil society simply let big Internet business off 
the hook, entirely, did not at all focus on it, rather preferred to cosy 
up to it, as the tale with the WEF goes on. Do note that all the above 
articles put the blame for killing the egalitarian Internet/ web 
exclusively on Internet big business .... But despite repeated 
exhortations by some people here, we simply never had a strategy for 
Internet big business. Our exclusive focus has been the UN and 
developing country govs - those bad guys!

parminder

>
> Adam


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From hananeb at diplomacy.edu  Mon Aug 25 07:17:29 2014
From: hananeb at diplomacy.edu (Hanane Boujemi)
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 13:17:29 +0200
Subject: [IRPCoalition] [governance] Re: [bestbits] Looking for your
 input - NetMundial Initiative
In-Reply-To: <CAESPhBWqj-=WtSpmK-u4fdJ2EoCOQYsstHpPHu+JYppsrNRZTw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK-FJAdYqXwXPXzEMiT-SdMypBA=DdCO+WtGeTTiMN0jqWqBkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DC51A4B-4361-441A-A324-EDB576F08177@glocom.ac.jp>
	<2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8016425CA@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
	<CADFgh1341tqzDoeKe99C6rFAf0edqG+VsgTqChk=n1N83PSGMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAESPhBWqj-=WtSpmK-u4fdJ2EoCOQYsstHpPHu+JYppsrNRZTw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAESPhBVVhw-EOKCr8hQMp8BYS_Gsf+qzQQyTWcnh2sEE5TKS+A@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Carolina for keeping us in the loop. While the new list of invited
people is more balanced ( unlike the leaked doc). I think specific
attention has to be allocated to having a concrete outcome out of this
meeting which will feed into the whole process.  The list of concerns and
what Nneena added is in my opinion sufficient .

Hanane


>
> On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 9:00 AM, Nnenna Nwakanma <nnenna75 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear all
>>
>> The position of the World Wide Web Foundation is open and on the blog:
>> https://webfoundation.org/2014/08/the-fall-of-internet-governance/
>>
>> SNIP = = =
>>
>> Here are the proposals we’ll be bringing to these forums to help ensure
>> that international commitment leverages change on the ground:
>>
>>    - *Commit to policy coherence.* Companies and governments who espouse
>>    participatory, democratic processes and defend human rights in Internet
>>    governance forums should not turn around and negotiate away our Web rights
>>    in secretive negotiations on topics such as digital copyright,
>>    cybersecurity, spectrum licensing and surveillance cooperation.
>>    - *Popularise the issues. *Companies won’t change until they feel
>>    their profits are threatened. Governments won’t change unless they fear
>>    being voted out of power. So we need a collective effort to ensure that
>>    people around the globe understand and care about these issues. We’re
>>    playing our part by leading the Web We Want <http://webwewant.org/>
>>    campaign — and as part of this we’re planning a major festival with the UK’s
>>    Southbank Centre
>>    <http://www.southbankcentre.co.uk/whatson/festivals-series/web-we-want>,
>>    which will take place across three weekends, beginning in September. We
>>    also fund and connect local activists working for a free and open Web all
>>    over the world, from Privacy Cafes
>>    <https://webwewant.org/projects/The_Cryptoparty_Tour_by_Privacy_Cafe>
>>    in the Netherlands, to public awareness efforts and advocacy campaigns in
>>    Mexico <https://webwewant.org/projects/CriptoRally_in_Mexico>, Nigeria
>>    <https://webwewant.org/projects/Web_We_Want_Radio_Phone_Ins> and
>>    beyond
>>    <https://webwewant.org/news/Announcing_the_Web_25_Year_of_Action_Grants>.
>>    Through our Web Index <http://www.thewebindex.org/> project, we’re
>>    tracking the performance of countries around the world on digital rights
>>    issues such as access, affordability, and online privacy. How can you help?
>>    - *Include more voices.* Technical guidance from “Internet Governance
>>    Experts” is critical in this field to avoid policy blunders, but the
>>    conversation is too important to be left to them alone. Representatives of
>>    other constituencies need to turn their minds to this issue and put forward
>>    solutions. The World Economic Forum initiative will reach wider business
>>    interests beyond the tech sector, which is positive in itself — but not
>>    everybody gets to go to Davos. We need equally creative and well-resourced
>>    ways to engage small-medium enterprises and start-ups, union leaders, the
>>    arts and culture community, anti-poverty campaigners, women’s rights
>>    groups, youth movements, parliamentarians and more.
>>    - *Open up.* Internet governance affects everyone, and so discussions
>>    should happen in the open, supported by transparent mechanisms that
>>    strengthen the accountability of governments, technical bodies, and
>>    technology corporations to the public. The Internet Governance Forum is to
>>    be commended for live-streaming their sessions, and we call on the
>>    organisers of the NETmundial Initiative and the Plenipotentiary to do the
>>    same. We’ll be providing full and honest write-ups of all our participation
>>    here too.
>>    - *Invest in national level change. *International norms are
>>    important — and we’ve gone as far as to call for a global “Magna Carta” for
>>    the Internet. Yet it is national level laws, regulations, business
>>    practices, and market incentives that most powerfully shape the
>>    Internet—for better or worse. It’s time for a concerted effort to build and
>>    pass an “Internet bill of rights” in every country that will enshrine
>>    citizens’ rights to access, privacy, and freedom of expression and
>>    association online. To do this requires sustained attention, political
>>    leadership, and investment in the capacity and resources of local civil
>>    society.
>>
>> SNIP =  = =
>>
>>
>> Nnenna
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 6:00 PM, "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" <
>> wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Adam,
>>>
>>> good questions. I also support Rauls approach. Key point at this stage
>>> is to broaden the support for the IGF and NMI is one great option to do
>>> this. BTW, I got yesterday an invitation to join the Geneva meeting but I
>>> can not go due to our 14th Meeting of the ICANN Studienkreis in Sofia
>>> (Bulgaria), August 28/29.
>>>
>>> In the light of the Monday Meeting in Istanbul we should use the IGC
>>> Meeting on Friday to enhance a CSmid-term strategy.
>>>
>>> Wolfgang
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> DAM;
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>> Von: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org im Auftrag von Adam
>>> Gesendet: Sa 23.08.2014 14:38
>>> An: Carolina Rossini
>>> Cc: Brett Solomon; <bestbits at lists.bestbits.net>
>>> bestbits at lists.bestbits.net&gt;
>>> irp at lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org; governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> IGC
>>> Betreff: [governance] Re: [bestbits] Looking for your input - NetMundial
>>> Initiative
>>>
>>> Dear Carolina,
>>>
>>> Thank you for sharing this.  A few comments below.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 23, 2014, at 9:24 AM, Carolina Rossini wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Dear all,
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > As some of you might have heard and also seen the leaked documents,
>>> the World Economic Forum, supported by ICANN, will host the workshop
>>> "NetMundial Initiative" on 28th of August, in Geneva.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Besides leaked documents, an "official" site is now up (as of
>>> yesterday) at http://www.weforum.org/issues/global-internet-governance,
>>> with list of participants, agenda, a short briefing and a FAQ. It worth
>>> reading it - the FAQ is a very "interesting" piece. See it here -
>>> http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_2NETmundialInitiativeFAQ.pdf.
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> Shame it had to leak.  Fadi announced the initiative at the ICANN
>>> meeting in London (around 23rd June) and the lead CS participants were
>>> already known at that time.  But only rumor, no information, until the leak
>>> of course...
>>>
>>>
>>> > Background regarding invitations and communication with NMI
>>> organizers: None of the CS members invited to the workshop know exactly how
>>> the selection process happened. In my personal case, I heard I was being
>>> invited from colleagues in Brazil, but you can refer to Brett's previous
>>> email (I paste it below) regarding to some of our earlier concerns
>>> regarding the lack of transparency related to the invitation process.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Yesterday, a group of CS members had a call with Fadi and folks from
>>> the WEF - the first of its kind. The call was arranged in response to a
>>> request from CS invited for the Geneva meeting.
>>>
>>>
>>> Who were the other "civil society" people who joined the call with
>>> Fadi/WEF?
>>>
>>> And news on membership of the Steering Committee?
>>>
>>>
>>> > Below are some key concerns that were drafted ahead of the call. A
>>> primary theme on the call was lack of transparency and failure to
>>> adequately engage CS as part of the planning process for this workshop and
>>> its follow-up processes.  We also conveyed how problematic that it was
>>> about the lack of southern CS representation.
>>>
>>>
>>> Except for yourself, is there anyone?  Skimming the participant list,
>>> the only other person I recognize as having a experience of Internet
>>> governance at national/regional level global south is Barrack Otieno (tech
>>> community, Kenya and East Africa IGFs and other).
>>>
>>>
>>> > Besides the issues below, and in regard to participation, we asked
>>> ICANN and WEF to let CS chose its own representatives and that the
>>> representation should rotate, so it is inclusive.
>>>
>>>
>>> from <http://www.weforum.org/issues/global-internet-governance>  this
>>> initiative is "Inspired by the NETmundial..." "Carry forward the spirit of
>>> NETmundial..."'
>>>
>>> NETmundial document is couldn't be clearer "Stakeholder representatives
>>> appointed to multistakeholder Internet governance processes should be
>>> selected through open, democratic, and transparent processes. Different
>>> stakeholder groups should self-manage their processes based on inclusive,
>>> publicly known, well defined and accountable mechanisms."
>>>
>>> Please ask WEF to cut the sweet words and either follow the "spirit" or
>>> find another brand :-)  Quite an issue over this during the lead-up to
>>> NETmundial.  Should be a civil society non-negotiable.
>>>
>>>
>>> > We also asked for remote participation and that the WEF sets a
>>> platform for remote commentary, which should happen in advance, during and
>>> after the meeting. The initiative was presented to us as an experiment that
>>> will initially last for roughly 6 months.  Nobody from CS who is attending
>>> the workshop has decided to publicly support or not the initiative.
>>>
>>>
>>> Will you attend as representatives of civil society or for your own
>>> organizations?
>>>
>>> Is WEF (etc) covering costs of participation, travel to Geneva?
>>>
>>>
>>> > At the workshop, we will observe, understand what is still up in the
>>> air and what may have been decided in advance by the conveners, and then
>>> decide.  But for that to happen, it would be very helpful to hear more in
>>> the main IG lists.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > So, the primary purpose of this email is to reach out to you with a
>>> very practical ask: The agenda presents a series of questions this
>>> "Initiative" wants to address. Those on the call thought it would be a good
>>> idea to ask in a series of CS lists involved in IG for your views and
>>> comments regarding those questions. Refer to the agenda here:
>>> http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_3NETmundialInitiativeLaunchAgenda.pdf
>>> >
>>> > It would be extremely helpful to those attending to get your input on
>>> the questions and issues presented in the agenda by Tuesday Aug 26, so we
>>> can incorporate your thoughts and comments into our interventions at the
>>> workshop. Please let us know if you have any other questions or concerns.
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> Long way to go for an agenda doesn't have much time for discussion.
>>>
>>> Topic that most interests me is (from the NETmundial document) "There is
>>> a need to develop multistakeholder mechanisms at the national level owing
>>> to the fact that a good portion of Internet governance issues should be
>>> tackled at this level. National multistakeholder mechanisms should serve as
>>> a link between local discussions and regional and global instances.
>>> Therefore a fluent coordination and dialogue across those different
>>> dimensions is essential."  Two items on the agenda seem to address this.
>>>
>>> and text I think perhaps helpful :
>>>
>>> "National and regional level Internet governance structures and
>>> mechanisms must emerge, guided by the same global principles to ensure
>>> alignment [*]. The synchronization between the different levels ensures a
>>> healthy, inclusive, and balanced stakeholder representation locally while
>>> contributing to the coordination of activities taking place at the global
>>> level and avoiding additional frictions in the Internet."
>>>
>>> [* i.e. NETmunudal principles, and text from the Panel On Global
>>> Internet Cooperation and Governance Mechanisms, contribution to NETmundial
>>> http://internetgovernancepanel.org/ ]
>>>
>>> How can this new WEF initiative help develop, support/sustain such
>>> national level mechanisms, will the members commit to supporting such
>>> activities.  Does need commitment, we have been talking about such
>>> mechanisms since 2000/01.
>>>
>>> The bullets below look good.
>>>
>>> Adam
>>>
>>> (not subscribed to redlatam at lists.accessnow.org, igcbp-talk <
>>> igcbp-talk at googlegroups.com> and steering at lists.bestbits.net so removed
>>> from cc list, but added "governance at lists.igcaucus.org IGC" <
>>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org>)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >  Cheers,
>>> >
>>> >  C
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >       .
>>> > Welcome the interest and desire of ICANN and the WEF to leverage and
>>> further build on the NETmundial outcomes
>>> >
>>> >       . Recognize that there have been some challenges in bringing
>>> this group together and many concerns as to the processes by which this
>>> occurred
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >       . Convey broader civil society concerns that the convening
>>> process was inconsistent with the NETmundial principles - greater openness
>>> and transparency is required in order to achieve any legitimacy
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >       . Insist that the process going forward be true to principles of
>>> openness, transparency and inclusivity and that there be mechanisms to
>>> ensure that fullest participation is facilitated
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >       . Insist that the NMI support, underpin and strengthen the IGF
>>> and its work
>>> >
>>> >       . Insist that the NMI not duplicate or subsume work of existing
>>> entities to promote NETmundial outcomes but rather support and encourage
>>> such work and find new avenues
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >       . Seek clarification and work to identify the medium to long
>>> term goals of NMI - what is the NMI's added value, specific purpose and
>>> what are (at most) the three clearly identifiable and achievable goals that
>>> it is going to set for itself
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >       . Work to ensure that NMI is not operating in a vacuum and that
>>> it is appropriately linked to 1NET, the IGF, the various business and civil
>>> society platforms, etc., and to ensure that it is appropriately taking into
>>> account other processes such as the WSIS+10 review
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >       . Suggest that a meeting in January around the fringes of Davos
>>> may not be suitably accessible to the majority of interested parties given
>>> the costs, etc., of that particular event
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >       . Seek to put "more meat on the bones" of the proposed actions,
>>> noting where such actions are already taking place (and their progress),
>>> and suggest that it may be wise to start with one action rather than
>>> multiple [encouraging the implementation of NETmundial outcomes -
>>> particularly governance principles and processes - at the national and
>>> regional levels, for example]
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >       . Suggest an open brainstorming session at Aug meeting and an
>>> online process to solicit ideas for taking the NETmundial outcomes forward.
>>> (Perhaps the Initiative should be open to suggestions as to possible
>>> actions on an ongoing basis.)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >       . Better understand the role of the WEF and how the "host" is
>>> going to rotate and how the meetings will be structured so that they can
>>> encourage the greatest possible engagement and participation
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >       . Ensure that the steering committee going forward is put
>>> together through appropriately transparent and inclusive processes.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> > From: Brett Solomon <brett at accessnow.org>
>>> > Date: Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 2:41 PM
>>> > Subject: [bestbits] NetMundial Initiative
>>> > To: "&lt,bestbits at lists.bestbits.net&gt," <bestbits at lists.bestbits.net
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Hey there,
>>> >
>>> > As many of you know there is a post-Sao Paolo process emerging,
>>> proposed by Fadi Chehadi at ICANN, called the Net Mundial Initiative.
>>> Various versions of the documents laying out this concept have been
>>> floating around and are now leaked.
>>> >
>>> > A number of individuals including myself were alerted to this process
>>> before the documents were 'leaked' and have since communicated it more
>>> broadly amongst civil society. Clearly there are a number of procedural and
>>> substantive questions about what the Net Mundial Initiative will seek to
>>> accomplish, who will be involved, and what the processes for inclusion and
>>> decision-making will be moving forward.
>>> >
>>> > As the documents indicate, the next step of the Net Mundial Initiative
>>> will be a meeting in Geneva on August 28th. A number of members of civil
>>> society who have been invited to join the Net Mundial Initiative will
>>> attend this event, including Carolina Rossini (Public Knowledge), Eileen
>>> Donahoe (HRW), and Bill Drake (though perhaps more there as a
>>> representative of the academic community).
>>> >
>>> > I have not communicated this yet to the organizers, but I'm  planning
>>> on going to the event to learn more, but Access has not decided yet whether
>>> we will accept the invitation to join the Steering Committee. Regardless, I
>>> personally will consult our global membership and other civil society
>>> partners to garner an array of perspectives before attending.
>>> >
>>> > From what I have been told, the process will be hosted by the World
>>> Economic Forum for a temporary period from August to February 2015. In
>>> addition to those listed above, a number of concerns have been raised about
>>> the Initiative including:
>>> >
>>> >       . Participation: selection process, attendance, and
>>> representation from the global south
>>> >       . WEF as host: corporate nature of the host, perceptions of
>>> corporate capture, approach to development and elitism
>>> >       . Objectives: what is the NMI trying to achieve, and how does it
>>> relate to other key elements of the IG landscape, in particular the IGF.
>>> >
>>> > All of the people that Fadi and WEF reached out to that I've talked to
>>> have expressed pretty deep concerns back to the organizers, including
>>> pushing hard to make sure civil society is represented and for this process
>>> in general to be more open, transparent, and inclusive of those from the
>>> global south. It would be good if we could have as open lines of
>>> communication as possible, including at the event, so if people have any
>>> thoughts or concerns they can then share them on or off list. Those who are
>>> attending should be a conduit for communication.
>>> >
>>> > Additionally, we have requested a meeting between civil society
>>> representatives and Fadi and Klaus (of WEF), so there will be a further
>>> opportunity to voice concerns there, which those going to Geneva will
>>> report back on.
>>> >
>>> > Best wishes
>>> >
>>> > Brett
>>> >
>>> > PS I am on Access team offsite so might be slow to respond.
>>> >
>>> > Brett Solomon
>>> > Executive Director
>>> > Access | accessnow.org
>>> >
>>> > +1 917 969 6077
>>> > @solomonbrett
>>> > Key ID: 0x4EDC17EB
>>> > Fingerprint: C02C A886 B0FC 3A25 FF9F ECE8 FCDF BA23 4EDC 17EB
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ____________________________________________________________
>>> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>> >      bestbits at lists.bestbits.net.
>>> > To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:
>>> >      http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > --
>>> > Carolina Rossini
>>> > Vice President, International Policy
>>> > Public Knowledge
>>> > http://www.publicknowledge.org/
>>> > + 1 6176979389 | skype: carolrossini | @carolinarossini
>>> >
>>> > ____________________________________________________________
>>> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>> >     bestbits at lists.bestbits.net.
>>> > To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:
>>> >     http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> IRP mailing list
>> IRP at lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org
>> https://lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org/mailman/listinfo/irp
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> ---
>
>
>
>
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From williams.deirdre at gmail.com  Mon Aug 25 07:38:51 2014
From: williams.deirdre at gmail.com (Deirdre Williams)
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 07:38:51 -0400
Subject: The IGC is not an organisation. Was Re: [governance] IGC
 meeting in Istanbul
In-Reply-To: <92A74791-AAA7-44E0-8A04-F12F45A0EDE7@glocom.ac.jp>
References: <CADFgh13ZtvSN6WeM6UE0EFYhe+DaQOYiY51e3Dv=jFOFN73ycQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1480c2aca60.27e9.4f968dcf8ecd56c9cb8acab6370fcfe0@hserus.net>
 <CACTo+v-VXLjV8yJk1EADYRzARnuiVQgOCRKCUVxFWbns5RqC4g@mail.gmail.com> <92A74791-AAA7-44E0-8A04-F12F45A0EDE7@glocom.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <CAMz5XN501R-UFozF2CmYHmqc0GKF-=KORLGphcrvKhLjgATwNg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello :-)
There is a Donate button on the Welcome page of the website. It leads to
the Paypal account for IGC.
Earlier this year we received a generous donation from a member who I have
thanked.
The hosting bill is 13.47 GB pounds every three months.
This seems to be the IGC's entire financial responsibility.
Suresh's suggestion is certainly the most practical, but it seems an unfair
burden to place on the co-ordinators who anyway might not, for several
reasons, be able to make the payments.
This is a long way from discussing policy, but it does need to be sorted
out with some urgency. It seems to me that the Donate button should be
de-activated until we know what we are doing.
Over to you - this is an area which needs input and decisions from the
group as a whole.
Deirdre



On 25 August 2014 05:02, Adam <ajp at glocom.ac.jp> wrote:

> But do you have an idea of how much is needed?
>
> If donations made to the coordinators (or others, Jeremy?) in person, what
> currency?  Would be good to know before we met, or all you'll get from me
> is Turkish Lira :-)
>
> Adam
>
>
> On Aug 25, 2014, at 5:53 PM, Mawaki Chango wrote:
>
> > This might be an item to put on the agenda (in fact it is the sub-item
> of an item already there) for the Istanbul meeting and beyond for further
> discussion here.
> > Not for the sake of web hosting cost, but in the context of the way
> forward for IGC. I don't remember that option having ever been discussed in
> the open.
> >
> > Mawaki
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 7:56 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <
> suresh at hserus.net> wrote:
> > Then some individual donor had better step up and pay for the hosting in
> his or her own name and capacity
> >
> > On 25 August 2014 12:22:13 pm Nnenna Nwakanma <nnenna75 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi there
> >>
> >> No, the IGC  has is not an organisation.  It is an online forum.
> >> The Charter and other stuff are still on http://igcaucus.org
> >>
> >> Best
> >>
> >> Nnenna
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> On 23 August 2014 12:50, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net>
> wrote:
> >>> Is IGC registered as a non profit somewhere? The funds would be best
> held in that jurisdiction, to satisfy tax norms.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> > To be removed from the list, visit:
> >      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >
> > For all other list information and functions, see:
> >      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >      http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >
> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> > To be removed from the list, visit:
> >     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >
> > For all other list information and functions, see:
> >     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >
> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
“The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
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From nb at bollow.ch  Mon Aug 25 08:38:50 2014
From: nb at bollow.ch (Norbert Bollow)
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 14:38:50 +0200
Subject: The IGC is not an organisation. Was Re: [governance] IGC
 meeting in Istanbul
In-Reply-To: <CAMz5XN501R-UFozF2CmYHmqc0GKF-=KORLGphcrvKhLjgATwNg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADFgh13ZtvSN6WeM6UE0EFYhe+DaQOYiY51e3Dv=jFOFN73ycQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1480c2aca60.27e9.4f968dcf8ecd56c9cb8acab6370fcfe0@hserus.net>
	<CACTo+v-VXLjV8yJk1EADYRzARnuiVQgOCRKCUVxFWbns5RqC4g@mail.gmail.com>
	<92A74791-AAA7-44E0-8A04-F12F45A0EDE7@glocom.ac.jp>
	<CAMz5XN501R-UFozF2CmYHmqc0GKF-=KORLGphcrvKhLjgATwNg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140825143850.25b2450e@quill>

On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 07:38:51 -0400
Deirdre Williams <williams.deirdre at gmail.com> wrote:

> The hosting bill is 13.47 GB pounds every three months.
> This seems to be the IGC's entire financial responsibility.

Does that already include the cost of keeping the igcaucus.org domain
name alive? (igcaucus.org seems to be registered at hover.com which
seems to charge USD 15/year for a .org domain.)

Greetings,
Norbert 

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From avri at acm.org  Mon Aug 25 08:56:31 2014
From: avri at acm.org (Avri Doria)
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 08:56:31 -0400
Subject: The IGC is not an organisation. Was Re: [governance] IGC
 meeting in Istanbul
In-Reply-To: <20140825143850.25b2450e@quill>
References: <CADFgh13ZtvSN6WeM6UE0EFYhe+DaQOYiY51e3Dv=jFOFN73ycQ@mail.gmail.com>	<1480c2aca60.27e9.4f968dcf8ecd56c9cb8acab6370fcfe0@hserus.net>	<CACTo+v-VXLjV8yJk1EADYRzARnuiVQgOCRKCUVxFWbns5RqC4g@mail.gmail.com>	<92A74791-AAA7-44E0-8A04-F12F45A0EDE7@glocom.ac.jp>	<CAMz5XN501R-UFozF2CmYHmqc0GKF-=KORLGphcrvKhLjgATwNg@mail.gmail.com> <20140825143850.25b2450e@quill>
Message-ID: <53FB327F.2050405@acm.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


hi,



On 25-Aug-14 08:38, Norbert Bollow wrote:

> 
> Does that already include the cost of keeping the igcaucus.org
> domain name alive? (igcaucus.org seems to be registered at
> hover.com which seems to charge USD 15/year for a .org domain.)
> 

i have just been paying that.
it is on autocharge.

Thought my name was on the whois.

haven't used privacy or proxy on that one as far as i know.
will check.

avri


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From williams.deirdre at gmail.com  Mon Aug 25 09:04:34 2014
From: williams.deirdre at gmail.com (Deirdre Williams)
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 09:04:34 -0400
Subject: The IGC is not an organisation. Was Re: [governance] IGC
 meeting in Istanbul
In-Reply-To: <20140825143850.25b2450e@quill>
References: <CADFgh13ZtvSN6WeM6UE0EFYhe+DaQOYiY51e3Dv=jFOFN73ycQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1480c2aca60.27e9.4f968dcf8ecd56c9cb8acab6370fcfe0@hserus.net>
 <CACTo+v-VXLjV8yJk1EADYRzARnuiVQgOCRKCUVxFWbns5RqC4g@mail.gmail.com>
 <92A74791-AAA7-44E0-8A04-F12F45A0EDE7@glocom.ac.jp> <CAMz5XN501R-UFozF2CmYHmqc0GKF-=KORLGphcrvKhLjgATwNg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140825143850.25b2450e@quill>
Message-ID: <CAMz5XN740oqyUanHLQrcSmh1Vj=3i=d-GmHJ4ykpJEs4H=HVRQ@mail.gmail.com>

Please tell me if it does. I haven't received an invoice yet.
Several circumstances unfortunately coincided at the co-coordinator
handover (my new grandson was very definitely one of them) with the result
that to an extent we, Mawaki and I, have been feeling our way in the dark.
My own feeling is that a lot of this "background stuff" needs to be put
right out in the open in plain sight.
I suggest that each person holding a "piece of the jigsaw" sends that piece
to the list;
that those present at the Friday lunchtime meeting in Istanbul, together
with anyone able to join via skype/google hangout/ whatever, put the pieces
together as tidily as possible;
that the completed picture is discussed by the whole group online, tweaked
as necessary, and sent through the approval process.
Is it too ambitious to suggest that we might complete this by the 30th
September?
And Avri - your message arrived while I was writing. Thank you.
Deirdre



On 25 August 2014 08:38, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch> wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 07:38:51 -0400
> Deirdre Williams <williams.deirdre at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The hosting bill is 13.47 GB pounds every three months.
> > This seems to be the IGC's entire financial responsibility.
>
> Does that already include the cost of keeping the igcaucus.org domain
> name alive? (igcaucus.org seems to be registered at hover.com which
> seems to charge USD 15/year for a .org domain.)
>
> Greetings,
> Norbert
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
“The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
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From williams.deirdre at gmail.com  Mon Aug 25 09:09:25 2014
From: williams.deirdre at gmail.com (Deirdre Williams)
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 09:09:25 -0400
Subject: [governance] =?UTF-8?Q?How_the_web_lost_its_way_=E2=80=93_and?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?_its_founding_principles?=
In-Reply-To: <AC3FE8AF-02F1-4D60-9ADA-3EB739FA4AD1@glocom.ac.jp>
References: <AC3FE8AF-02F1-4D60-9ADA-3EB739FA4AD1@glocom.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <CAMz5XN4v9ZvfKmd0M8-jdBH2R80dzpS-Jzi9O-O35am4ngx+AQ@mail.gmail.com>

This article seems to point to something which has concerned me a lot for a
long time. The information has a tendency to become inextricably confused
with the technology so that the communication becomes degraded. To explain
better - the technology appears to become more important than either the
information or the communication, rather than being a tool at the service
of the communication of the information.

I believe that if we could adjust this imbalance several other difficulties
might automatically correct themselves.

What do others think?

Deirdre


On 25 August 2014 06:11, Adam <ajp at glocom.ac.jp> wrote:

> When Tim Berners-Lee invented the world wide web 24 years ago he thought
> he'd created an egalitarian tool that would share information for the
> greater good. But it hasn't quite worked out like that. What went wrong?
>
> more at:
>
> <
> http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/aug/24/internet-lost-its-way-tim-berners-lee-world-wide-web
> >
>
> Adam
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
“The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
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From kichango at gmail.com  Mon Aug 25 10:09:33 2014
From: kichango at gmail.com (Mawaki Chango)
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 14:09:33 +0000
Subject: The IGC is not an organisation. Was Re: [governance] IGC
 meeting in Istanbul
In-Reply-To: <CAMz5XN740oqyUanHLQrcSmh1Vj=3i=d-GmHJ4ykpJEs4H=HVRQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADFgh13ZtvSN6WeM6UE0EFYhe+DaQOYiY51e3Dv=jFOFN73ycQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1480c2aca60.27e9.4f968dcf8ecd56c9cb8acab6370fcfe0@hserus.net>
 <CACTo+v-VXLjV8yJk1EADYRzARnuiVQgOCRKCUVxFWbns5RqC4g@mail.gmail.com>
 <92A74791-AAA7-44E0-8A04-F12F45A0EDE7@glocom.ac.jp> <CAMz5XN501R-UFozF2CmYHmqc0GKF-=KORLGphcrvKhLjgATwNg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140825143850.25b2450e@quill> <CAMz5XN740oqyUanHLQrcSmh1Vj=3i=d-GmHJ4ykpJEs4H=HVRQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACTo+v-7WJc9LsAZ4t4k_PMjd77aEm_aF=frDfLfuLO6A8+gsg@mail.gmail.com>

 On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 1:04 PM, Deirdre Williams <
williams.deirdre at gmail.com> wrote:

(snip)

> My own feeling is that a lot of this "background stuff" needs to be put
> right out in the open in plain sight.
> I suggest that each person holding a "piece of the jigsaw" sends that
> piece to the list;
> that those present at the Friday lunchtime meeting in Istanbul, together
> with anyone able to join via skype/google hangout/ whatever, put the pieces
> together as tidily as possible;
> that the completed picture is discussed by the whole group online, tweaked
> as necessary, and sent through the approval process.
>

+1

Is it too ambitious to suggest that we might complete this by the 30th
> September?
>

+1+1 :)

>  And Avri - your message arrived while I was writing. Thank you.
> Deirdre
>
>
>
> On 25 August 2014 08:38, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 07:38:51 -0400
>> Deirdre Williams <williams.deirdre at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > The hosting bill is 13.47 GB pounds every three months.
>> > This seems to be the IGC's entire financial responsibility.
>>
>> Does that already include the cost of keeping the igcaucus.org domain
>> name alive? (igcaucus.org seems to be registered at hover.com which
>> seems to charge USD 15/year for a .org domain.)
>>
>> Greetings,
>> Norbert
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> "The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
> Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
>
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From jlfullsack at orange.fr  Mon Aug 25 12:08:14 2014
From: jlfullsack at orange.fr (Jean-Louis FULLSACK)
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 18:08:14 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [governance] Re: [bestbits] Looking for your input - NetMundial
 Initiative
Message-ID: <1270153161.22985.1408982894204.JavaMail.www@wwinf1m11>

 

Dear all

 

The Web Foundation position paper states in its final paragraph



 

I don't remember having read such a concentrate of naivety for a long time ! At best, the Web Foundation is dreaming. Or isnt its language putting the CS to sleep ? 

CS committed in an actual Internet governance should better try to keep the Internet and its use by the world citizens out of the business-centered web and try to focus its efforts against its unfair and harmful commercial exploitation (tag : cloud and Internet of things). For those of our lists members who are able to read a french newspaper (there may be a "significative minority" :-) ), I warmly recommend the article entitled "De l'utopie numerique au choc social" (From the digital utopia to the social shock) by Evgeni Morozov*, in the August issue of Le Monde Diplomatique. It deals fairly well with these issues.    


* Morozov is also the author of To Save Everything. Click Here. Technology, Solutionsm, and the Urge to Fix Problems That Don't Exist, Allen Lane, London, 2013 

 

In addition, I wonder if these < events in Ethiopia, Swaziland, and Turkey (that) highlight just a few of the many ways in which countries continue to violate citizens’ basic human rights online> are more important than the permament and systematic spying practiced by the USG and its NSA with the active complicity of its Internet Giants which is ignored in this paper. 


 

Best


 

Jean-Louis Fullsack


 

 

> Message du 25/08/14 09:01
> De : "Nnenna Nwakanma" 
> A : "Governance" 
> Copie à : "" , "irp at lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org" 
> Objet : Re: [governance] Re: [bestbits] Looking for your input - NetMundial Initiative
> 
>


Dear all
> 
>
The position of the World Wide Web Foundation is open and on the blog: https://webfoundation.org/2014/08/the-fall-of-internet-governance/
> 
>
SNIP = = = 
> 
>
> Here are the proposals we’ll be bringing to these forums to help ensure that international commitment leverages change on the ground:


Commit to policy coherence. Companies and governments who espouse participatory, democratic processes and defend human rights in Internet governance forums should not turn around and negotiate away our Web rights in secretive negotiations on topics such as digital copyright, cybersecurity, spectrum licensing and surveillance cooperation.
Popularise the issues. Companies won’t change until they feel their profits are threatened. Governments won’t change unless they fear being voted out of power. So we need a collective effort to ensure that people around the globe understand and care about these issues. We’re playing our part by leading the Web We Want campaign — and as part of this we’re planning a major festival with the UK’s Southbank Centre, which will take place across three weekends, beginning in September. We also fund and connect local activists working for a free and open Web all over the world, from Privacy Cafes in the Netherlands, to public awareness efforts and advocacy campaigns in Mexico, Nigeria and beyond. Through our Web Index project, we’re tracking the performance of countries around the world on digital rights issues such as access, affordability, and online privacy. How can you help?
Include more voices. Technical guidance from “Internet Governance Experts” is critical in this field to avoid policy blunders, but the conversation is too important to be left to them alone. Representatives of other constituencies need to turn their minds to this issue and put forward solutions. The World Economic Forum initiative will reach wider business interests beyond the tech sector, which is positive in itself — but not everybody gets to go to Davos. We need equally creative and well-resourced ways to engage small-medium enterprises and start-ups, union leaders, the arts and culture community, anti-poverty campaigners, women’s rights groups, youth movements, parliamentarians and more.
Open up. Internet governance affects everyone, and so discussions should happen in the open, supported by transparent mechanisms that strengthen the accountability of governments, technical bodies, and technology corporations to the public. The Internet Governance Forum is to be commended for live-streaming their sessions, and we call on the organisers of the NETmundial Initiative and the Plenipotentiary to do the same. We’ll be providing full and honest write-ups of all our participation here too.
Invest in national level change. International norms are important — and we’ve gone as far as to call for a global “Magna Carta” for the Internet. Yet it is national level laws, regulations, business practices, and market incentives that most powerfully shape the Internet—for better or worse. It’s time for a concerted effort to build and pass an “Internet bill of rights” in every country that will enshrine citizens’ rights to access, privacy, and freedom of expression and association online. To do this requires sustained attention, political leadership, and investment in the capacity and resources of local civil society.

> SNIP =  = = 
>

> 
>

> Nnenna
>


>

> 
>
On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 6:00 PM, "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang"  wrote:
>
Hi Adam,
> 
> good questions. I also support Rauls approach. Key point at this stage is to broaden the support for the IGF and NMI is one great option to do this. BTW, I got yesterday an invitation to join the Geneva meeting but I can not go due to our 14th Meeting of the ICANN Studienkreis in Sofia (Bulgaria), August 28/29.
> 
> In the light of the Monday Meeting in Istanbul we should use the IGC Meeting on Friday to enhance a CSmid-term strategy.
> 
> Wolfgang
> 
> 
> 
> DAM;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org im Auftrag von Adam
> Gesendet: Sa 23.08.2014 14:38
> An: Carolina Rossini
> Cc: Brett Solomon;  bestbits at lists.bestbits.net> irp at lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org; governance at lists.igcaucus.org IGC
> Betreff: [governance] Re: [bestbits] Looking for your input - NetMundial Initiative
>


> Dear Carolina,
> 
> Thank you for sharing this.  A few comments below.
> 
> 
> On Aug 23, 2014, at 9:24 AM, Carolina Rossini wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > Dear all,
> >
> >
> >
> > As some of you might have heard and also seen the leaked documents, the World Economic Forum, supported by ICANN, will host the workshop "NetMundial Initiative" on 28th of August, in Geneva.
> >
> >
> > Besides leaked documents, an "official" site is now up (as of yesterday) at http://www.weforum.org/issues/global-internet-governance, with list of participants, agenda, a short briefing and a FAQ. It worth reading it - the FAQ is a very "interesting" piece. See it here - http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_2NETmundialInitiativeFAQ.pdf.
> >
> >
> 
> 
> Shame it had to leak.  Fadi announced the initiative at the ICANN meeting in London (around 23rd June) and the lead CS participants were already known at that time.  But only rumor, no information, until the leak of course...
> 
> 
> > Background regarding invitations and communication with NMI organizers: None of the CS members invited to the workshop know exactly how the selection process happened. In my personal case, I heard I was being invited from colleagues in Brazil, but you can refer to Brett's previous email (I paste it below) regarding to some of our earlier concerns regarding the lack of transparency related to the invitation process.
> >
> >
> > Yesterday, a group of CS members had a call with Fadi and folks from the WEF - the first of its kind. The call was arranged in response to a request from CS invited for the Geneva meeting.
> 
> 
> Who were the other "civil society" people who joined the call with Fadi/WEF?
> 
> And news on membership of the Steering Committee?
> 
> 
> > Below are some key concerns that were drafted ahead of the call. A primary theme on the call was lack of transparency and failure to adequately engage CS as part of the planning process for this workshop and its follow-up processes.  We also conveyed how problematic that it was about the lack of southern CS representation.
> 
> 
> Except for yourself, is there anyone?  Skimming the participant list, the only other person I recognize as having a experience of Internet governance at national/regional level global south is Barrack Otieno (tech community, Kenya and East Africa IGFs and other).
> 
> 
> > Besides the issues below, and in regard to participation, we asked ICANN and WEF to let CS chose its own representatives and that the representation should rotate, so it is inclusive.
> 
> 
> from   this initiative is "Inspired by the NETmundial..." "Carry forward the spirit of NETmundial..."'
> 
> NETmundial document is couldn't be clearer "Stakeholder representatives appointed to multistakeholder Internet governance processes should be selected through open, democratic, and transparent processes. Different stakeholder groups should self-manage their processes based on inclusive, publicly known, well defined and accountable mechanisms."
> 
> Please ask WEF to cut the sweet words and either follow the "spirit" or find another brand :-)  Quite an issue over this during the lead-up to NETmundial.  Should be a civil society non-negotiable.
> 
> 
> > We also asked for remote participation and that the WEF sets a platform for remote commentary, which should happen in advance, during and after the meeting. The initiative was presented to us as an experiment that will initially last for roughly 6 months.  Nobody from CS who is attending the workshop has decided to publicly support or not the initiative.
> 
> 
> Will you attend as representatives of civil society or for your own organizations?
> 
> Is WEF (etc) covering costs of participation, travel to Geneva?
> 
> 
> > At the workshop, we will observe, understand what is still up in the air and what may have been decided in advance by the conveners, and then decide.  But for that to happen, it would be very helpful to hear more in the main IG lists.
> >
> >
> > So, the primary purpose of this email is to reach out to you with a very practical ask: The agenda presents a series of questions this "Initiative" wants to address. Those on the call thought it would be a good idea to ask in a series of CS lists involved in IG for your views and comments regarding those questions. Refer to the agenda here: http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_3NETmundialInitiativeLaunchAgenda.pdf
> >
> > It would be extremely helpful to those attending to get your input on the questions and issues presented in the agenda by Tuesday Aug 26, so we can incorporate your thoughts and comments into our interventions at the workshop. Please let us know if you have any other questions or concerns.
> >
> >
> 
> 
> Long way to go for an agenda doesn't have much time for discussion.
> 
> Topic that most interests me is (from the NETmundial document) "There is a need to develop multistakeholder mechanisms at the national level owing to the fact that a good portion of Internet governance issues should be tackled at this level. National multistakeholder mechanisms should serve as a link between local discussions and regional and global instances. Therefore a fluent coordination and dialogue across those different dimensions is essential."  Two items on the agenda seem to address this.
> 
> and text I think perhaps helpful :
> 
> "National and regional level Internet governance structures and mechanisms must emerge, guided by the same global principles to ensure alignment [*]. The synchronization between the different levels ensures a healthy, inclusive, and balanced stakeholder representation locally while contributing to the coordination of activities taking place at the global level and avoiding additional frictions in the Internet."
> 
> [* i.e. NETmunudal principles, and text from the Panel On Global Internet Cooperation and Governance Mechanisms, contribution to NETmundial http://internetgovernancepanel.org/ ]
> 
> How can this new WEF initiative help develop, support/sustain such national level mechanisms, will the members commit to supporting such activities.  Does need commitment, we have been talking about such mechanisms since 2000/01.
> 
> The bullets below look good.
> 
> Adam
> 
> (not subscribed to redlatam at lists.accessnow.org, igcbp-talk  and steering at lists.bestbits.net so removed from cc list, but added "governance at lists.igcaucus.org IGC" )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >  Cheers,
> >
> >  C
> >
> >
> >
> >       .
> > Welcome the interest and desire of ICANN and the WEF to leverage and further build on the NETmundial outcomes
> >
> >       . Recognize that there have been some challenges in bringing this group together and many concerns as to the processes by which this occurred
> >
> >
> >       . Convey broader civil society concerns that the convening process was inconsistent with the NETmundial principles - greater openness and transparency is required in order to achieve any legitimacy
> >
> >
> >       . Insist that the process going forward be true to principles of openness, transparency and inclusivity and that there be mechanisms to ensure that fullest participation is facilitated
> >
> >
> >       . Insist that the NMI support, underpin and strengthen the IGF and its work
> >
> >       . Insist that the NMI not duplicate or subsume work of existing entities to promote NETmundial outcomes but rather support and encourage such work and find new avenues
> >
> >
> >       . Seek clarification and work to identify the medium to long term goals of NMI - what is the NMI's added value, specific purpose and what are (at most) the three clearly identifiable and achievable goals that it is going to set for itself
> >
> >
> >       . Work to ensure that NMI is not operating in a vacuum and that it is appropriately linked to 1NET, the IGF, the various business and civil society platforms, etc., and to ensure that it is appropriately taking into account other processes such as the WSIS+10 review
> >
> >
> >       . Suggest that a meeting in January around the fringes of Davos may not be suitably accessible to the majority of interested parties given the costs, etc., of that particular event
> >
> >
> >       . Seek to put "more meat on the bones" of the proposed actions, noting where such actions are already taking place (and their progress), and suggest that it may be wise to start with one action rather than multiple [encouraging the implementation of NETmundial outcomes - particularly governance principles and processes - at the national and regional levels, for example]
> >
> >
> >       . Suggest an open brainstorming session at Aug meeting and an online process to solicit ideas for taking the NETmundial outcomes forward. (Perhaps the Initiative should be open to suggestions as to possible actions on an ongoing basis.)
> >
> >
> >       . Better understand the role of the WEF and how the "host" is going to rotate and how the meetings will be structured so that they can encourage the greatest possible engagement and participation
> >
> >
> >       . Ensure that the steering committee going forward is put together through appropriately transparent and inclusive processes.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: Brett Solomon 

> > Date: Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 2:41 PM
> > Subject: [bestbits] NetMundial Initiative
> > To: "&lt,bestbits at lists.bestbits.net&gt," 
> >
> > Hey there,
> >
> > As many of you know there is a post-Sao Paolo process emerging, proposed by Fadi Chehadi at ICANN, called the Net Mundial Initiative. Various versions of the documents laying out this concept have been floating around and are now leaked.
> >
> > A number of individuals including myself were alerted to this process before the documents were 'leaked' and have since communicated it more broadly amongst civil society. Clearly there are a number of procedural and substantive questions about what the Net Mundial Initiative will seek to accomplish, who will be involved, and what the processes for inclusion and decision-making will be moving forward.
> >
> > As the documents indicate, the next step of the Net Mundial Initiative will be a meeting in Geneva on August 28th. A number of members of civil society who have been invited to join the Net Mundial Initiative will attend this event, including Carolina Rossini (Public Knowledge), Eileen Donahoe (HRW), and Bill Drake (though perhaps more there as a representative of the academic community).
> >
> > I have not communicated this yet to the organizers, but I'm  planning on going to the event to learn more, but Access has not decided yet whether we will accept the invitation to join the Steering Committee. Regardless, I personally will consult our global membership and other civil society partners to garner an array of perspectives before attending.
> >
> > From what I have been told, the process will be hosted by the World Economic Forum for a temporary period from August to February 2015. In addition to those listed above, a number of concerns have been raised about the Initiative including:
> >
> >       . Participation: selection process, attendance, and representation from the global south
> >       . WEF as host: corporate nature of the host, perceptions of corporate capture, approach to development and elitism
> >       . Objectives: what is the NMI trying to achieve, and how does it relate to other key elements of the IG landscape, in particular the IGF.
> >
> > All of the people that Fadi and WEF reached out to that I've talked to have expressed pretty deep concerns back to the organizers, including pushing hard to make sure civil society is represented and for this process in general to be more open, transparent, and inclusive of those from the global south. It would be good if we could have as open lines of communication as possible, including at the event, so if people have any thoughts or concerns they can then share them on or off list. Those who are attending should be a conduit for communication.
> >
> > Additionally, we have requested a meeting between civil society representatives and Fadi and Klaus (of WEF), so there will be a further opportunity to voice concerns there, which those going to Geneva will report back on.
> >
> > Best wishes
> >
> > Brett
> >
> > PS I am on Access team offsite so might be slow to respond.
> >
> > Brett Solomon
> > Executive Director
> > Access | accessnow.org
> >
> > +1 917 969 6077
> > @solomonbrett
> > Key ID: 0x4EDC17EB
> > Fingerprint: C02C A886 B0FC 3A25 FF9F ECE8 FCDF BA23 4EDC 17EB
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >      bestbits at lists.bestbits.net.
> > To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:
> >      http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > --
> > Carolina Rossini
> > Vice President, International Policy
> > Public Knowledge
> > http://www.publicknowledge.org/
> > + 1 6176979389 | skype: carolrossini | @carolinarossini
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >     bestbits at lists.bestbits.net.
> > To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:
> >     http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>


> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
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> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> 
>


>



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From jmalcolm at eff.org  Mon Aug 25 12:18:01 2014
From: jmalcolm at eff.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 09:18:01 -0700
Subject: The IGC is not an organisation. Was Re: [governance] IGC
 meeting in Istanbul
In-Reply-To: <92A74791-AAA7-44E0-8A04-F12F45A0EDE7@glocom.ac.jp>
References: <CADFgh13ZtvSN6WeM6UE0EFYhe+DaQOYiY51e3Dv=jFOFN73ycQ@mail.gmail.com> <1480c2aca60.27e9.4f968dcf8ecd56c9cb8acab6370fcfe0@hserus.net> <CACTo+v-VXLjV8yJk1EADYRzARnuiVQgOCRKCUVxFWbns5RqC4g@mail.gmail.com> <92A74791-AAA7-44E0-8A04-F12F45A0EDE7@glocom.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <53FB61B9.5080605@eff.org>

On 25/08/2014 2:02 am, Adam wrote:
> But do you have an idea of how much is needed?
>
> If donations made to the coordinators (or others, Jeremy?) in person, what currency?  Would be good to know before we met, or all you'll get from me is Turkish Lira :-)

Currently no money is needed; the issue is simply that in the longer
term, whenever we do need money, we have no convenient way of banking
it.  For all the reasons that Deirdre gave (to which I could add a dozen
more reasons), Paypal is the just about the worst of all possible
options.  However, alternatives are thin on the ground.  Maybe Bitcoin?

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Senior Global Policy Analyst
Electronic Frontier Foundation
https://eff.org
jmalcolm at eff.org

Tel: 415.436.9333 ext 161

:: Defending Your Rights in the Digital World ::


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From suresh at hserus.net  Mon Aug 25 12:41:17 2014
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 22:11:17 +0530
Subject: The IGC is not an organisation. Was Re: [governance] IGC
 meeting in Istanbul
In-Reply-To: <53FB61B9.5080605@eff.org>
References: <CADFgh13ZtvSN6WeM6UE0EFYhe+DaQOYiY51e3Dv=jFOFN73ycQ@mail.gmail.com> <1480c2aca60.27e9.4f968dcf8ecd56c9cb8acab6370fcfe0@hserus.net> <CACTo+v-VXLjV8yJk1EADYRzARnuiVQgOCRKCUVxFWbns5RqC4g@mail.gmail.com> <92A74791-AAA7-44E0-8A04-F12F45A0EDE7@glocom.ac.jp> <53FB61B9.5080605@eff.org>
Message-ID: <9F76E92A-00A1-4B1F-824A-E2B44F063C05@hserus.net>

If this simply involves paying in kind for webhosting or domain registration, individuals can step up and use their personal credit cards with the payment gateway of the webhost and registrar.

--srs (iPad)

> On 25-Aug-2014, at 21:48, Jeremy Malcolm <jmalcolm at eff.org> wrote:
> 
>> On 25/08/2014 2:02 am, Adam wrote:
>> But do you have an idea of how much is needed?
>> 
>> If donations made to the coordinators (or others, Jeremy?) in person, what currency?  Would be good to know before we met, or all you'll get from me is Turkish Lira :-)
> 
> Currently no money is needed; the issue is simply that in the longer
> term, whenever we do need money, we have no convenient way of banking
> it.  For all the reasons that Deirdre gave (to which I could add a dozen
> more reasons), Paypal is the just about the worst of all possible
> options.  However, alternatives are thin on the ground.  Maybe Bitcoin?
> 
> -- 
> Jeremy Malcolm
> Senior Global Policy Analyst
> Electronic Frontier Foundation
> https://eff.org
> jmalcolm at eff.org
> 
> Tel: 415.436.9333 ext 161
> 
> :: Defending Your Rights in the Digital World ::
> 
> 

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From chinmayiarun at gmail.com  Mon Aug 25 12:58:39 2014
From: chinmayiarun at gmail.com (Chinmayi Arun)
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 22:28:39 +0530
Subject: [governance] Why we are boycotting the IGF (by Yaman Akdeniz
 and Kerem Altiparmak)
In-Reply-To: <53FA4862.2060903@acm.org>
References: <CACu5V_ug3HTEdYJ1z5M9Mw4zdXbz2ALbEjLTRDjhgiqp_V1QfQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<21497.6499.147349.307627@world.std.com>
	<CAHyAo0EtmUF+++bO1RNdpZZX0MKWS72=2QaXqXn_xSN9ixPx1A@mail.gmail.com>
	<21498.14377.536363.975717@world.std.com>
	<53FA4862.2060903@acm.org>
Message-ID: <CACu5V_s7B6KcPTCaQ+N+02zRs7Fe=BDnEChVha3hOts6t_Syew@mail.gmail.com>

+1 Avri. Couldn't agree more. Especially when these are people like Yaman
Akdeniz who have written extensively on internet and human rights issues.



On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 1:47 AM, Avri Doria <avri at acm.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> It think people boycotting the IGF will have a rich selection at the
> Ungoverance Forum (which I pref to think of as an IGFringe - something
> every IGF should have).  I also think there is real value in boycotts.
> Especially when people not boycotting, work to make sure the message of
> the boycotters is brought into the boycotted event.
>
> For those of us not boycotting, we should find way to make sure the
> message of the boycotters is heard inside the IGF.  I think visiting
> locations that are engaged in Autocracy 2.0 makes sense for something
> like the IGF, though best when there is an IGFringe and there is support
> for the boycott's message inside the venue.  Locations still engaged in
> Autocracy 1.0 and those that are dangerous for groups like women and
> LGBTQI are best avoided.
>
> avri
>
>
> On 24-Aug-14 15:08, Barry Shein wrote:
> >
> > Thank you Siva.
> >
> > The one exception I would add would be a situation where a venue made
> > certain potential attendees feel unsafe or unreasonably constrained.
> >
> > For example there are venues where women would feel unsafe and at best
> > confined to airport<->hotel more or less. Those should be considered
> > unworkable venues. There are countries some can't travel to or only
> > with great bureaucratic difficulty as another example. There are other
> > analagous examples. I'm not sure I'd be comfortable traveling to
> > Mogadishu for a conference at present, or Mosul, though I hope that
> > will change one day.
> >
> > As an act of protest, again, I think the press release has some merit
> > in raising awareness of an issue. But the actual act of boycott itself
> > is probably counter-productive. Perhaps a paradox, or just a
> > problematic approach.
> >
> >
> > From: Sivasubramanian M <isolatedn at gmail.com>
> >> +1 Barry.
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 4:14 AM, Barry Shein <bzs at world.std.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> From: Chinmayi Arun <chinmayiarun at gmail.com>
> >>> I just ran into this piece
> >>> <
> >>
> http://www.indexoncensorship.org/2014/08/boycotting-internet-governance-forum/
> >>>
> >>> by Yaman Akdeniz and Kerem Altiparmak. Civil society folks who will be
> at
> >>> the IGF this year may find it interesting- it flags significant
> >>> internet-related concerns in Turkey.
> >>
> >> Although I certainly understand the utility of making a statement vis
> >> a vis such a boycott I have a different view.
> >>
> >> Personally I'd encourage an IGF in Pyongyang and everyone attend it.
> >>
> >> To boycott such an event is, other than the hope someone might notice
> >> the press releases, nearly indistinguishable from being forbidden from
> >> attending.
> >>
> >> Silence is silence.
> >>
> >> I suppose if a boycott mounted to the point that it crippled or even
> >> cancelled the meeting that might attract some more attention to the
> >> underlying issue at least among the I* community. It hasn't gone
> >> unnoticed.
> >>
> >> But to my mind better to bring everyone together in the clear light of
> >> day and confront these issues than to hope that one's non-appearance
> >> will effect a statement.
> >>
> >> Notice, for example, some of the state pariahs who are welcomed to the
> >> United Nations and even given a podium.
> >>
> >> It's not that I have a polyanna-ish hope in dialogue so much as a
> >> pessimistic view of non-dialogue.
> >>
> >> --
> >>         -Barry Shein
> >>
> >> The World              | bzs at TheWorld.com           |
> >> http://www.TheWorld.com
> >> Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD        | Dial-Up: US, PR,
> >> Canada
> >> Software Tool & Die    | Public Access Internet     | SINCE 1989
>  *oo*
> >>
> >>
> >> ____________________________________________________________
> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> >> To be removed from the list, visit:
> >>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >>
> >> For all other list information and functions, see:
> >>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >>
> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >>
> >>
> > <div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default"
> style=3D"font-family:verdana,=
> > sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#333333">+1 Barry.</div></div><div
> class=
> > =3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><a
> href=3D"https:/=
> > /www.facebook.com/sivasubramanian.muthusamy"
> target=3D"_blank">Sivasubraman=
> > ian M</a><br>
> > <br></div></div>
> > <br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 4:14 AM,
> Barry S=
> > hein <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bzs at world.std.com"
> target=3D"_=
> > blank">bzs at world.std.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote
> class=3D"gmai=
> > l_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
> solid;padding-left=
> > :1ex">
> > <br>
> > From: Chinmayi Arun &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:chinmayiarun at gmail.com
> ">chinmayia=
> > run at gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
> > <div class=3D"">&gt;I just ran into this piece<br>
> > </div>&gt;&lt;<a href=3D"
> http://www.indexoncensorship.org/2014/08/boycottin=
> > g-internet-governance-forum/" target=3D"_blank">
> http://www.indexoncensorshi=
> > p.org/2014/08/boycotting-internet-governance-forum/</a>&gt;<br>
> > <div class=3D"">&gt;by Yaman Akdeniz and Kerem Altiparmak. Civil society
> fo=
> > lks who will be at<br>
> > &gt;the IGF this year may find it interesting- it flags significant<br>
> > &gt; internet-related concerns in Turkey.<br>
> > <br>
> > </div>Although I certainly understand the utility of making a statement
> vis=
> > <br>
> > a vis such a boycott I have a different view.<br>
> > <br>
> > Personally I&#39;d encourage an IGF in Pyongyang and everyone attend
> it.<br=
> >>
> > <br>
> > To boycott such an event is, other than the hope someone might notice<br>
> > the press releases, nearly indistinguishable from being forbidden
> from<br>
> > attending.<br>
> > <br>
> > Silence is silence.<br>
> > <br>
> > I suppose if a boycott mounted to the point that it crippled or even<br>
> > cancelled the meeting that might attract some more attention to the<br>
> > underlying issue at least among the I* community. It hasn&#39;t gone<br>
> > unnoticed.<br>
> > <br>
> > But to my mind better to bring everyone together in the clear light
> of<br>
> > day and confront these issues than to hope that one&#39;s
> non-appearance<br=
> >>
> > will effect a statement.<br>
> > <br>
> > Notice, for example, some of the state pariahs who are welcomed to
> the<br>
> > United Nations and even given a podium.<br>
> > <br>
> > It&#39;s not that I have a polyanna-ish hope in dialogue so much as a<br>
> > pessimistic view of non-dialogue.<br>
> > <span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
> > --<br>
> > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -Barry Shein<br>
> > <br>
> > The World=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |
> bzs at TheWorld.co=
> > m=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| <a href=3D"
> http://www.TheWorld.=
> > com" target=3D"_blank">http://www.TheWorld.com</a><br>
> > Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
> | D=
> > ial-Up: US, PR, Canada<br>
> > Software Tool &amp; Die=C2=A0 =C2=A0 | Public Access Internet=C2=A0
> =C2=A0 =
> > =C2=A0| SINCE 1989=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*oo*<br>
> > <br>
> >
> </font></span><br>_________________________________________________________=
> > ___<br>
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br>
> > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> ">govern=
> > ance at lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>
> > To be removed from the list, visit:<br>
> > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing"
> targe=
> > t=3D"_blank">http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing</a><br>
> > <br>
> > For all other list information and functions, see:<br>
> > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance"
> t=
> > arget=3D"_blank">http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance</a><br>
> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC&#39;s charter, see:<br>
> > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.igcaucus.org/"
> target=3D"_blank">=
> > http://www.igcaucus.org/</a><br>
> > <br>
> > Translate this email: <a href=3D"http://translate.google.com/translate_t"
> t=
> > arget=3D"_blank">http://translate.google.com/translate_t</a><br>
> > <br></blockquote></div><br></div>
> >
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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>
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From bzs at world.std.com  Mon Aug 25 15:02:40 2014
From: bzs at world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 15:02:40 -0400
Subject: [governance] =?UTF-8?Q?How_the_web_lost_its_way_=E2=80=93_and?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?_its_founding_principles?=
In-Reply-To: <53FB0F68.6060405@itforchange.net>
References: <AC3FE8AF-02F1-4D60-9ADA-3EB739FA4AD1@glocom.ac.jp>
	<53FB0F68.6060405@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <21499.34896.39209.342874@world.std.com>


I'm not sure I'm convinced that anything went particularly wrong.

But if I were to characterize a big picture sort of thing it's that
little or no economy emerged for activities which weren't inherently
profitable such as selling books or shoes or eyeballs.

The internet generally prides itself in its tax avoidance yet taxes,
as Justice Brandeis said, pay for civilization.

Add to that a period of govt austerity largely brought on by vast
financial industry errors (I'm being kind) and it's not surprising
that non-profitable activities have waned even as the internet grew.

And of course a nearly Stockholm Syndrome mentality by the voting
populace -- at least in the US but I don't think it's really limited
to the US -- which identifies with the notion that if an activity
isn't inherently profitable then it isn't worthwhile. Profiterianism.

Who needs fresh water when you have music videos?

War remains one notable exception. Not terribly profitable except
inasmuch as it skims the common weal, yet always extremely well
funded, even on the internet in the form of "intelligence" and
propaganda warfare.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

The World              | bzs at TheWorld.com           | http://www.TheWorld.com
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD        | Dial-Up: US, PR, Canada
Software Tool & Die    | Public Access Internet     | SINCE 1989     *oo*

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From joly at punkcast.com  Mon Aug 25 16:02:30 2014
From: joly at punkcast.com (Joly MacFie)
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 16:02:30 -0400
Subject: [governance] =?UTF-8?Q?How_the_web_lost_its_way_=E2=80=93_and?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?_its_founding_principles?=
In-Reply-To: <21499.34896.39209.342874@world.std.com>
References: <AC3FE8AF-02F1-4D60-9ADA-3EB739FA4AD1@glocom.ac.jp>
 <53FB0F68.6060405@itforchange.net> <21499.34896.39209.342874@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <CAM9VJk2M=N+Go+sx0gpbLWeGDXZDaCSYV0O3SowDORcpRHPswQ@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah, I don't so much agree. How many one's daily gets are http or https? A
lot!




On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 3:02 PM, Barry Shein <bzs at world.std.com> wrote:

>
> I'm not sure I'm convinced that anything went particularly wrong.
>

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
Joly MacFie  218 565 9365 Skype:punkcast
WWWhatsup NYC - http://wwwhatsup.com
 http://pinstand.com - http://punkcast.com
 VP (Admin) - ISOC-NY - http://isoc-ny.org
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From lucabelli at hotmail.it  Tue Aug 26 03:38:57 2014
From: lucabelli at hotmail.it (Luca Belli)
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 09:38:57 +0200
Subject: [governance] Dynamic Coalition on Network Neutrality @ IGF
Message-ID: <DUB122-W2324488CD1C9B50D83B665C6DC0@phx.gbl>






Dear all (apologies for cross-posting),  As the IGF
is approaching I would like to invite you to attend - on site or remotely - the
Annual Meeting of the Dynamic Coalition on Network Neutrality that will be held on 2 September from 11:00 to 12:30, Istanbul
time (see: http://sched.co/1rDzuvQ ). The meeting will be
live-streamed. Info regarding remote participation will be posted on the IGF
website in the forthcoming days. 

The DC NN meeting will offer the occasion to discuss the papers selected
for the annual report of the dynamic coalition. Below, you will find the agenda
of the DC meeting as well as the outline of the 2014 report. The 2014 Report
will be officially released at the IGF meeting and will be subsequently published
on the DC NN website under CC BY License. 

Best regards, Luca Belli
  Meeting Agenda:  Introduction & moderation: Luca BelliKeynote: Vint Cerf, GoogleDebate with the authors of the annual DC NN report (or their spokespeople): Chris Riley, MozillaRoslyn Layton, Aalborg UniversityØrnulf Storm, Norwegian Post and Telecommunications AuthorityPatricia Vargas-Leon, Syracuse UniversityAlejandro  Pisanty, National Autonomous University of Mexico & ISOC MexicoAngela Daly, Swinburne University  Open debate with the audienceConclusion and next steps 

Network Neutrality: an Ongoing Regulatory Debate

2nd Report of the Dynamic Coalition on
Network Neutrality

                

·        
Preface (Vint Cerf)

·        
Introduction - Network Neutrality: an Unfinished Debate (Luca Belli & Primavera De Filippi)

·        
The net neutrality service model and specialized services
(Frode Sørensen)

·        
Net Neutrality: an overview of enacted laws in Latin America
(Patricia Vargas-Leon)

·        
Network Neutrality debates in Telecommunications Reform –
Actors, Incentives, Risks (Alejandro Pisanty)

·        
Net Neutrality in Australia: an emerging debate (Angela Daly)

·        
A New Way Forward for Net Neutrality (Chris Riley)

·        
There’s no economic imperative to reconsider on open Internet
(Benoît Felten)

·        
Net Neutrality Regulation and Broadband Infrastructure
Investment:  How to Make an Empirical
Assessment (Roslyn Layton)

 

 The 2013
Report is available at http://www.networkneutrality.info/sources.html 




 		 	   		  
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From kichango at gmail.com  Tue Aug 26 05:48:33 2014
From: kichango at gmail.com (Mawaki Chango)
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 09:48:33 +0000
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for IGF Closing
 Ceremony
In-Reply-To: <CE1414F0127E4948BEBABF0080B655F7@Toshiba>
References: <CE1414F0127E4948BEBABF0080B655F7@Toshiba>
Message-ID: <CACTo+v_+c76SbvTkUrEuk=8SaNWT3uhCDwywv3Ysr_XOQsDKkg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,

The Civil Society Coordination Group (CSCG) has forwarded the below two CS
nominations to the IGF Secretariat for speaker spots at the Istanbul IGF's
closing ceremony. As one of your two IGC co-Coordinators, I have been
tasked to represent this Caucus within that Group. Therefore and for your
information, I am hereby forwarding the letter addressed by the CSCG Chair
to the IGF Secretariat to that effect. At this point in time and in absence
of well-developed and established selection procedures, all the Group
members have done the best we could to choose those we believe (for various
reasons) to be the strongest candidates for this opportunity among all
strong candidates. It is our intent and part of our post-Istanbul agenda to
work on clearly developing such procedures.

For now, let us congratulate the nominees, Milton and Burcu.
Best regards,

Mawaki
IGC Co-Coordinator and IGC Rep. to CS Coordination Group


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Ian Peter <ian.peter at ianpeter.com>
Date: Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:21 AM
Subject: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for IGF Closing Ceremony
To: igf at unog.ch
Cc: cs-coord at lists.bestbits.net, Subi Chaturvedi <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>


  Dear Secretariat,

Subi Chaturvedi passed on to us your request for civil society nominations
for speakers for this years IGF Closing Ceremony. Thank you for ensuring
that civil society is involved in choosing its representatives to speak on
this occasion.

This request was dealt with by the Internet Governance Civil Society Co
ordination Group (CSCG). This peak group consists of representatives of the
major civil society coalitions involved in Internet Governance issues,
including Internet Governance Caucus, Best Bits, Association for
Progressive Communications, Diplo Foundation, Just Net Coalition, Civicus,
and Non Commercial Stakeholders Group of ICANN. The group, founded in 2013,
has a primary role to ensure a co-ordinated civil society response and
conduit when it comes to making civil society appointments to outside
bodies. This was accepted and respected during the NetMundial (Brazil)
process, and by the 1net community, and we will be pleased to also work
with IGF in the future as regards civil society representation.

It was therefore appropriate for this body to consider the question of
speakers for the IGF closing session as requested.

After calling for expressions of interest and nominations through the
various networks, the CSCG discussed prospective speakers and makes the
following recommendations.

Firstly, we believe that civil society must have two speakers. Just like
governments or any other stakeholder group, we have more perspectives than
can be handled with just one speaking slot,  and even with two speakers we
feel we are under-represented.

With this in mind, and bearing also in mind the multistakeholder principle
that stakeholders should choose their own representatives, we submit the
following two names.

 SPEAKER NO 1

Our first speaker is Dr Burcu Kilic. Dr Kilic is a Turkish citizen who is
an expert on legal, economic and political issues surrounding intellectual
property law, policy, development and innovation. We are pleased to be able
to nominate such a talented speaker from the host country.

SPEAKER NO 2

Our second speaker is Dr Milton Mueller. Dr Mueller is a Professor at
Syracuse University. His research, teaching and public service for the last
15 years have been concentrated on the internet governance arena.

Please let us know if you need any further information or contact details.



Sincerely,





Ian Peter

Independent Chair, on behalf of the Internet Governance Civil Society
Coordination Group


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From Stuart.Hamilton at ifla.org  Tue Aug 26 06:12:05 2014
From: Stuart.Hamilton at ifla.org (Stuart Hamilton)
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 10:12:05 +0000
Subject: [governance] Dynamic Coalition on Public Access in Libraries
 meeting at IGF, Tuesday 2nd September 9.00am
Message-ID: <43A796BFD05CCD49A3A513599E2C948E01F1EA80@MFP02.IFLA.lan>

Dear Colleagues

[Apologies for Cross Posting]

On behalf of the Dynamic Coalition on Public Access in Libraries (DC-PAL) I'd like to invite you to join us at our meeting at the IGF in Istanbul on Tuesday 2nd September. It's at 9am, right at the start of the event so if you join it should set you up nicely to engage in any discussions relating to access later in the week. Further details are below, please feel free to mail me if you have any questions. If you are at IGF and want to confirm your attendance, the new system lets you do just that - check here: http://igf2014.sched.org/event/8fa1da8a0715a51df7c02d2a12f486d5#.U_xS-WNWLhW


Dynamic Coalition on Public Access (DC-PAL) in Libraries
Tuesday 2nd September
9am-10.30am
Workshop Room 07 (Rumeli Terrace / Halic)

The DC-PAL meeting at the 2014 IGF will concentrate on the intersection of public access to ICTs and development. Building on feedback from workshops held at the African and LAC IGFs, and the WSIS+10 HLE, as well as experiences gained at the meetings of the Open Working Group on Sustainable Development Goals in New York during 2014, the meeting will look at the prospects for ICTs within the post-2015 framework, and the way that the framework could create new realities for Internet Governance. The meeting will also review two new policy briefs on public access launched by coalition members during 2014, discuss the importance of public access for women and girls, and assess the progress of the Beyond Access and Global Libraries projects funded by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.

While there will be a number of short presentations to help set the scene, the DC-PAL is intended to be more of a discussion than a business meeting, and participants are encouraged to come prepared to share how they are working with public access in their countries. Panellists will bring their viewpoints and discuss how their organisations intend to engage during 2015 to ensure that public access to ICTs stays on the agenda at national and international levels.

Agenda

*         Introduction and welcomes

o   Stuart Hamilton (International Federation of Library Associations and Institutions (IFLA) and DC-PAL Convenor)

*         The Dynamic Coalition and the IGF - reports from the regional IGFs

o   Martha Giraldo, ICT for Development Specialist, Colombia

o   Emilar Vushe, Association for Progressive Communications (APC) and/or Victoria Okojie, IFLA

*         Briefing documents on public access to ICTS<http://www.ifla.org/node/8626?og=7407>

o   Mike Jensen, APC

*         NetMundial, WSIS+10 and the post-2015 development framework: what are the opportunities for public access?

o   Stuart Hamilton (IFLA)

o   Leana Mayzlina (Worldpulse)

o   Sonia Jorge (Alliance for Affordable Internet)

o   Gabriele Guillemin, Article 19 (TBC)

o   Mike Jensen, APC

o   Professor Pedro Teta, Deputy Minister and Chairman of the National Information Technology Commission, Angola (TBC)

*         Discussion on partnerships, objectives and next steps for public access issues in 2015

o   Including discussion of The Lyon Declaration on Access to Information and Development<http://www.lyondeclaration.org/>, Stuart Hamilton (IFLA)

Important: As members of the DC-PAL mailing list, if you have any input to share or wish to see any issues addressed at the meeting, please don't hesitate to contact me and we will ensure they are tackled.

Please feel free to share this mail with your contacts and networks, and note that remote participation for the event is available. For more details on this, see here: http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/remote-participation-2014

Kind regards,

Stuart


Dr. Stuart Hamilton
Deputy Secretary General
International Federation of Library Associations and Institutions (IFLA)
P.O. Box 95312
2509 CH The Hague
Netherlands

00 31 70 314 0884

Twitter: @ifladpa


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From ggithaiga at hotmail.com  Tue Aug 26 13:52:10 2014
From: ggithaiga at hotmail.com (Grace Githaiga)
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 17:52:10 +0000
Subject: [governance] UNESCO call for proposals: Research on Internet
 governance principles
In-Reply-To: <DUB111-W6847753E84D6C899E9EEAAB4DC0@phx.gbl>
References: <DUB111-W6847753E84D6C899E9EEAAB4DC0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <DUB111-W124BC50D173F636DFC11AC5B4DC0@phx.gbl>

Dear Colleagues, UNESCO is seeking research proposals for a review of international and regional declarations, normative frameworks and accountability measures related to Internet governance principles. The timeline for the research is September 2014-March 2015, and it will feed into the Organization’s comprehensive Internet Study.
More information on the call for proposals can be found online: http://www.unesco.org/new/en/communication-and-information/resources/news-and-in-focus-articles/all-news/news/call_for_proposals_research_on_internet_governance_principles/Interested parties should send their proposal, including approach to the assignment and overall cost, by 20 September to Ms Xianhong Hu (x.hu at unesco.org).
We very much encourage you to apply and would appreciate if you could circulate this message among your networks.
Kind regards,Xianhong
Ms Xianhong HU, PhDDivision for Freedom of Expression and Media DevelopmentCommunication and Information SectorUNESCO7 place de Fontenoy75007 Paris, FRANCETel: +33(0)1 45 68 40 33E-mail: x.hu at unesco.org 		 	   		  

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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications. 		 	   		  
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From robin at ipjustice.org  Tue Aug 26 17:10:05 2014
From: robin at ipjustice.org (Robin Gross)
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 14:10:05 -0700
Subject: [governance] Upcoming IGF Workshops on ICANN Accountability &
 Privacy Issues
Message-ID: <33C82577-8717-4995-B731-AF97127C5D1F@ipjustice.org>

Hi Folks,

IP Justice has co-organized a couple IGF 2014 panel sessions dealing with ICANN policy issues and on which a number of civil society members are participating (including Stephanie Perrin, Pranesh Prakash, David Cake, Rafik Dammak, Carlos Afonso, Avri Doria, Joy Liddicoat).  One of the panels is on ICANN accountability and the other session is about ICANN privacy issues (details below).

There will be remote participation available for these workshops, so I hope those who won't be in Istanbul for IGF will still consider dialing-in and joining the discussion via Rafik and David.  Should be some lively discussions!

Thanks,
Robin

IGF 2014 Workshop #23: "Accountability at the ICANN Multistakeholder Governance Regime"
Wednesday 3 September from 9:00 - 10:30 am EEST (other time zones)
IGF Venue Workshop Room #2
Panel Speakers:  

Larry Strictling, US NTIA
Pat Kane, Verisign
Gonzalo Navarro, ICANN Board of Directors
Carlos Afonso, CGI.BR
Avri Doria, NCSG
Chris LaHatte, ICANN Ombudsman
Jordan Carter, InternetNZ
Panel Moderator: Robin Gross, IP Justice

Remote Moderator:  David Cake, Electronic Frontiers Australia  

More Info: http://bit.ly/1pDwm1x
=================================

IGF 2014 Workshop #149: "Aligning ICANN Policy with the Privacy Rights of Internet Users"

Friday 5 September from 11:00 am - 12:30pm EEST (other time zones)
IGF Venue Workshop Room #6 
Panel Speakers:

Sjoera Nas, Article 29 Working Party
Stephanie Perrin, University of Toronto
Paul Diaz, Public Interest Registry (PIR)
Joy Liddicoat, Association for Progressive Communications (APC)
Richard Leaning, EUROPOL
Michele Neylon, Blacknight
Monika Zalnieriute, Council of Europe
Panel Moderator:  Pranesh Prakash, Yale Information Society Project 

Remote Moderator: Rafik Dammak, ICANN’s Non-Commercial Stakeholders Group (NCSG)
More Info:  http://bit.ly/1pzrJWr
   


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From mueller at syr.edu  Tue Aug 26 22:56:58 2014
From: mueller at syr.edu (Milton L Mueller)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 02:56:58 +0000
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for IGF
 Closing Ceremony
In-Reply-To: <CACTo+v_+c76SbvTkUrEuk=8SaNWT3uhCDwywv3Ysr_XOQsDKkg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CE1414F0127E4948BEBABF0080B655F7@Toshiba>
 <CACTo+v_+c76SbvTkUrEuk=8SaNWT3uhCDwywv3Ysr_XOQsDKkg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <959f7a9b422c47038a5dcfeb6b0316b8@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>

This is quite an honor, all the more so for being totally unexpected. I will wait to see if the Secretariat approves these nominees; if so, I promise to have some interesting things to say! Congratulations to Dr Burcu Kilic as well; I look forward to listening to her.

Milton L Mueller
Syracuse University School of Information Studies
http://faculty.ischool.syr.edu/mueller/
Internet Governance Project
http://internetgovernance.org


From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Mawaki Chango
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 5:49 AM
To: Internet Governance
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for IGF Closing Ceremony

Dear all,

The Civil Society Coordination Group (CSCG) has forwarded the below two CS nominations to the IGF Secretariat for speaker spots at the Istanbul IGF's closing ceremony. As one of your two IGC co-Coordinators, I have been tasked to represent this Caucus within that Group. Therefore and for your information, I am hereby forwarding the letter addressed by the CSCG Chair to the IGF Secretariat to that effect. At this point in time and in absence of well-developed and established selection procedures, all the Group members have done the best we could to choose those we believe (for various reasons) to be the strongest candidates for this opportunity among all strong candidates. It is our intent and part of our post-Istanbul agenda to work on clearly developing such procedures.

For now, let us congratulate the nominees, Milton and Burcu.
Best regards,

Mawaki
IGC Co-Coordinator and IGC Rep. to CS Coordination Group


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Ian Peter <ian.peter at ianpeter.com<mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com>>
Date: Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:21 AM
Subject: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for IGF Closing Ceremony
To: igf at unog.ch<mailto:igf at unog.ch>
Cc: cs-coord at lists.bestbits.net<mailto:cs-coord at lists.bestbits.net>, Subi Chaturvedi <subichaturvedi at gmail.com<mailto:subichaturvedi at gmail.com>>

Dear Secretariat,
Subi Chaturvedi passed on to us your request for civil society nominations for speakers for this years IGF Closing Ceremony. Thank you for ensuring that civil society is involved in choosing its representatives to speak on this occasion.
This request was dealt with by the Internet Governance Civil Society Co ordination Group (CSCG). This peak group consists of representatives of the major civil society coalitions involved in Internet Governance issues, including Internet Governance Caucus, Best Bits, Association for Progressive Communications, Diplo Foundation, Just Net Coalition, Civicus, and Non Commercial Stakeholders Group of ICANN. The group, founded in 2013, has a primary role to ensure a co-ordinated civil society response and conduit when it comes to making civil society appointments to outside bodies. This was accepted and respected during the NetMundial (Brazil) process, and by the 1net community, and we will be pleased to also work with IGF in the future as regards civil society representation.
It was therefore appropriate for this body to consider the question of speakers for the IGF closing session as requested.
After calling for expressions of interest and nominations through the various networks, the CSCG discussed prospective speakers and makes the following recommendations.
Firstly, we believe that civil society must have two speakers. Just like governments or any other stakeholder group, we have more perspectives than can be handled with just one speaking slot,  and even with two speakers we feel we are under-represented.
With this in mind, and bearing also in mind the multistakeholder principle that stakeholders should choose their own representatives, we submit the following two names.
 SPEAKER NO 1
Our first speaker is Dr Burcu Kilic. Dr Kilic is a Turkish citizen who is an expert on legal, economic and political issues surrounding intellectual property law, policy, development and innovation. We are pleased to be able to nominate such a talented speaker from the host country.
SPEAKER NO 2
Our second speaker is Dr Milton Mueller. Dr Mueller is a Professor at Syracuse University. His research, teaching and public service for the last 15 years have been concentrated on the internet governance arena.
Please let us know if you need any further information or contact details.

Sincerely,


Ian Peter
Independent Chair, on behalf of the Internet Governance Civil Society Coordination Group


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From wjdrake at gmail.com  Wed Aug 27 01:38:00 2014
From: wjdrake at gmail.com (William Drake)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 07:38:00 +0200
Subject: [governance] NCUC workshops & Day 0 NM event at IGF
Message-ID: <6A15EF9D-3167-4895-9AAE-782DB8D22843@gmail.com>

Hi

Since folks are sharing….

The Noncommercial Users Constituency (NCUC) has organized two workshops:

WS185: ICANN Globalization and the Affirmation of Commitments
Wednesday, September 3 • 11:00am - 12:30pm
http://sched.co/1j2XqWB

WS153: Institutionalizing the “Clearing House” Function
Thursday, September 4 • 2:30pm - 4:00pm
http://sched.co/1mJ0A2M

and in collaboration with The Noncommercial Stakeholders Group (NCSG) another:

WS114: Developing Countries Participation in Global IG
Thursday, September 4 • 4:30pm - 6:00pm
http://sched.co/1mJ2JLU
(this is actually about developing countries in the GNSO, but a few people on the IGF MAG argued that the GNSO was “too narrow” a concern so the title was made broader)


And a number of groups have banded together to organize an all-day event on Day 0, NETmundial: Looking Back, Learning Lessons and Mapping the Road Ahead, in which context we’ll be releasing a 16-chapter e-‘book’ on NM Roadmap implementation that I put together for the Internet Policy Observatory (Annenberg School of Communication, University of Pennsylvania), called, Beyond NETmundial: The Roadmap for Institutional Improvements to the Global Internet Governance Ecosystem.  Many familiar authors from BB/IGC.

Monday, September 1, 9:00am - 6:30pm
http://sched.co/1r7K8s3

Best,

Bill

 ***********************************************
William J. Drake
International Fellow & Lecturer
  Media Change & Innovation Division, IPMZ
  University of Zurich, Switzerland
Chair, Noncommercial Users Constituency, 
  ICANN, www.ncuc.org
william.drake at uzh.ch (direct), wjdrake at gmail.com (lists),
  www.williamdrake.org
***********************************************

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From wjdrake at gmail.com  Wed Aug 27 02:11:22 2014
From: wjdrake at gmail.com (William Drake)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 08:11:22 +0200
Subject: [governance] IGF workshop, Perspectives on Internet Governance
 Research and Scholarship
References: <644D91E4-9F8B-49CF-B2D5-4E24FA41551F@uzh.ch>
Message-ID: <E403FFDD-04AF-4A13-BDF0-3E25E7D15D6A@gmail.com>

Hi

This one might also be of interest to some folks here.  It is connected to the Network of Centers initiative http://networkofcenters.net

Perspectives on Internet Governance Research and Scholarship 
Wednesday, September 3, 2:30pm - 4:00pm, Workshop Room 06 (Rumeli Mezzanine / Hisar)
http://sched.co/1mZwy4X

Best

Bill

***********************************************
William J. Drake
International Fellow & Lecturer
  Media Change & Innovation Division, IPMZ
  University of Zurich, Switzerland
Chair, Noncommercial Users Constituency, 
  ICANN, www.ncuc.org
william.drake at uzh.ch (direct), wjdrake at gmail.com (lists),
  www.williamdrake.org
***********************************************
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From joy at apc.org  Wed Aug 27 02:37:21 2014
From: joy at apc.org (joy)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 18:37:21 +1200
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [APC-IGF] Invitation to Disco-tech Istanbul
In-Reply-To: <53FCC740.7010404@apc.org>
References: <53FCC740.7010404@apc.org>
Message-ID: <53FD7CA1.7080805@apc.org>

Dear friends,
Apologies for any cross postings, but sharing this invitation for those
travelling to Istanbul for the various events next.
Kind regards
Joy

Announcement available in 
English:
https://www.apc.org/en/news/turkish-international-activists-share-circumventio
French:
https://www.apc.org/fr/news/les-militants-internationaux-partagent-des-tactiqu
Spanish:
https://www.apc.org/es/news/activistas-internacionales-y-de-turquia-comparten

_______


Dear all

This year we saw the insecurity of digital networks and information at
the hands of the Turkish government. World-wide it is becoming
increasingly important to all internet users due to the increase in
incidences of governments and corporations complicit in internet
blackouts and mass surveillance of netizens and human rights defenders.
Journalists, democracy activists, women human rights defenders and
sexual rights activists, who use ICTs to report on and campaign against
human rights abuses face surveillance, censorship, information security
vulnerabilities, and information security compromises that can be life
threatening.

To shed light on the practical steps that members of civil society can
take to protect themselves and their activism, APC, Tactical Tech and
Web Foundation are hosting a peer-learning session on the night before
the global IGF in Istanbul, 1 September 2014.

For those in Bali last year, it is our second Disco-tech at the IGF. For
newcomers, we call it a "Disco-tech" because the format of the event is
very unique. Participants can learn about technological solutions in an
inspiring and relaxed yet high-energy atmosphere.

Short talks on online censorship, internet blocking and circumvention
will inspire and mix up discussion among participants. Participants are
also invited to follow up their learnings at our "help desk" booth
stationed throught the IGF in the exhibition hall.

Event details

Date/time: 19:00 -- 22:00 Monday, 1 September 2014
Venue: Sofa Hotel[1]
Transport: walking distance from IGF venue; Osmanbey metro station
Attendance: Approx. 150 people
Food: Light snacks and drinks

We really hope that you can join us and please bring your colleagues and
partners as well. Speakers include: Amie Stepanovich, Access; Ahmet A.
Sabanc?, Alternatif Bilis,im; Andrew Gardner, Amnesty International;
Mohammad Tarakiyee, Association for Progressive Communications; Fieke
Jansen, Hivos; Jessica Dheere, Social Media Exchange; Paz Pena, Derechos
Digitales; Serhat Koç, Pirate Party Turkey; Bishakha Datta, Point of
View -- an excellent lineup!

An RSVP to mallory at apc.org would be much appreciated.



Mallory Knodel, APC
Gillo Cutrupi, TTC

1 http://www.thesofahotel.com
-- 
Mallory Knodel
Association for Progressive Communications :: apc.org <https://apc.org>
gpg fingerprint :: E3EB 63E0 65A3 B240 BCD9 B071 0C32 A271 BD3C C780



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From jeanchristophe.nothias at gmail.com  Wed Aug 27 03:57:51 2014
From: jeanchristophe.nothias at gmail.com (Jean-Christophe Nothias)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 09:57:51 +0200
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for IGF
 Closing Ceremony
In-Reply-To: <959f7a9b422c47038a5dcfeb6b0316b8@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
References: <CE1414F0127E4948BEBABF0080B655F7@Toshiba> <CACTo+v_+c76SbvTkUrEuk=8SaNWT3uhCDwywv3Ysr_XOQsDKkg@mail.gmail.com> <959f7a9b422c47038a5dcfeb6b0316b8@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <30EB9EE1-9C3F-41FB-A037-6834F9F34BCB@gmail.com>

Hi,

Unexpected is quite the word.

Milton, is it your intent to wrap-up your ideas or try to speak for all the different views expressed during the IGF? You show constantly so much disdain to others' ideas that I feel a bit concerned? Or shall we get some pure libertarian/US juice, still pro-US-dominatio? Would be interested to learn how you envision your role at this closing ceremony. What means "interesting things to say"? Hmm.

By the way, with all due respect, do you think Milton this is fair for the IGF closing ceremony to have the two closing speakers at IGF 2014 to be supported by US fundings? Burcu is based in DC - indeed a Turkish expat-, and you are based in Syracuse.
Dr Kilic is listed as a staff at the President's Office of Public Citizen, a US organization that states: "We fight on behalf of all Americans - to make sure you government works for you". Burcu's twitter account present here as: "Patent geek, digital rights advocate, IP scholar, lawyer, globetrotter and wannabe photographer; Public Citizen's Global Access to Medicines Program"

I can imagine that such a debate for selecting the two final CS speakers was far from easy.

But then Milton, assuming that we agree on a multi-view approach, why don't you simply pass on the mic to someone else, for a change, and for a less asymmetric closing ceremony. That would be quite a signal and elegant move. Let's see what the secretariat has to say.

And maybe one last question to Ian (congratulations for your nomination), what do we expect as CS from the last two speakers? Have you got a pitch on this?

JC



Le 27 août 2014 à 04:56, Milton L Mueller a écrit :

> This is quite an honor, all the more so for being totally unexpected. I will wait to see if the Secretariat approves these nominees; if so, I promise to have some interesting things to say! Congratulations to Dr Burcu Kilic as well; I look forward to listening to her.
>  
> Milton L Mueller
> Syracuse University School of Information Studies
> http://faculty.ischool.syr.edu/mueller/
> Internet Governance Project
> http://internetgovernance.org
>  
>  
> From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Mawaki Chango
> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 5:49 AM
> To: Internet Governance
> Subject: [governance] Fwd: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for IGF Closing Ceremony
>  
> Dear all,
>  
> The Civil Society Coordination Group (CSCG) has forwarded the below two CS nominations to the IGF Secretariat for speaker spots at the Istanbul IGF's closing ceremony. As one of your two IGC co-Coordinators, I have been tasked to represent this Caucus within that Group. Therefore and for your information, I am hereby forwarding the letter addressed by the CSCG Chair to the IGF Secretariat to that effect. At this point in time and in absence of well-developed and established selection procedures, all the Group members have done the best we could to choose those we believe (for various reasons) to be the strongest candidates for this opportunity among all strong candidates. It is our intent and part of our post-Istanbul agenda to work on clearly developing such procedures.
>  
> For now, let us congratulate the nominees, Milton and Burcu.
> Best regards,
>  
> Mawaki 
> IGC Co-Coordinator and IGC Rep. to CS Coordination Group
>  
>  
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Ian Peter <ian.peter at ianpeter.com>
> Date: Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:21 AM
> Subject: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for IGF Closing Ceremony
> To: igf at unog.ch
> Cc: cs-coord at lists.bestbits.net, Subi Chaturvedi <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
> 
> 
> Dear Secretariat,
> 
> Subi Chaturvedi passed on to us your request for civil society nominations for speakers for this years IGF Closing Ceremony. Thank you for ensuring that civil society is involved in choosing its representatives to speak on this occasion.
> 
> This request was dealt with by the Internet Governance Civil Society Co ordination Group (CSCG). This peak group consists of representatives of the major civil society coalitions involved in Internet Governance issues, including Internet Governance Caucus, Best Bits, Association for Progressive Communications, Diplo Foundation, Just Net Coalition, Civicus, and Non Commercial Stakeholders Group of ICANN. The group, founded in 2013, has a primary role to ensure a co-ordinated civil society response and conduit when it comes to making civil society appointments to outside bodies. This was accepted and respected during the NetMundial (Brazil) process, and by the 1net community, and we will be pleased to also work with IGF in the future as regards civil society representation.
> 
> It was therefore appropriate for this body to consider the question of speakers for the IGF closing session as requested.
> 
> After calling for expressions of interest and nominations through the various networks, the CSCG discussed prospective speakers and makes the following recommendations.
> 
> Firstly, we believe that civil society must have two speakers. Just like governments or any other stakeholder group, we have more perspectives than can be handled with just one speaking slot,  and even with two speakers we feel we are under-represented.
> 
> With this in mind, and bearing also in mind the multistakeholder principle that stakeholders should choose their own representatives, we submit the following two names.
> 
>  SPEAKER NO 1
> 
> Our first speaker is Dr Burcu Kilic. Dr Kilic is a Turkish citizen who is an expert on legal, economic and political issues surrounding intellectual property law, policy, development and innovation. We are pleased to be able to nominate such a talented speaker from the host country.
> 
> SPEAKER NO 2
> 
> Our second speaker is Dr Milton Mueller. Dr Mueller is a Professor at Syracuse University. His research, teaching and public service for the last 15 years have been concentrated on the internet governance arena. 
> 
> Please let us know if you need any further information or contact details.
> 
>  
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Ian Peter
> 
> Independent Chair, on behalf of the Internet Governance Civil Society Coordination Group
> 
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list cs-coord at lists.bestbits.net
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From suresh at hserus.net  Wed Aug 27 04:04:59 2014
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 03:04:59 -0500
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for IGF
 Closing Ceremony
In-Reply-To: <30EB9EE1-9C3F-41FB-A037-6834F9F34BCB@gmail.com>
References: <CE1414F0127E4948BEBABF0080B655F7@Toshiba>
 <CACTo+v_+c76SbvTkUrEuk=8SaNWT3uhCDwywv3Ysr_XOQsDKkg@mail.gmail.com>
 <959f7a9b422c47038a5dcfeb6b0316b8@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
 <30EB9EE1-9C3F-41FB-A037-6834F9F34BCB@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140827080459.GA14311@hserus.net>

Jean-Christophe Nothias [27/08/14 09:57 +0200]:
>Milton, is it your intent to wrap-up your ideas or try to speak for all
>the different views expressed during the IGF? You show constantly so much
>disdain to others' ideas that I feel a bit concerned? Or shall we get some

Has IG Caucus ever reached a consensus in recent times on anything at all
substantative?

Or else, what you're demanding of Milton is practically impossible.

Even if the extremely fringe opinions are, rightly, excluded, there is a
very wide middle ground

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From jeanchristophe.nothias at gmail.com  Wed Aug 27 04:31:33 2014
From: jeanchristophe.nothias at gmail.com (Jean-Christophe Nothias)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 10:31:33 +0200
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for IGF
 Closing Ceremony
In-Reply-To: <20140827080459.GA14311@hserus.net>
References: <CE1414F0127E4948BEBABF0080B655F7@Toshiba> <CACTo+v_+c76SbvTkUrEuk=8SaNWT3uhCDwywv3Ysr_XOQsDKkg@mail.gmail.com> <959f7a9b422c47038a5dcfeb6b0316b8@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu> <30EB9EE1-9C3F-41FB-A037-6834F9F34BCB@gmail.com> <20140827080459.GA14311@hserus.net>
Message-ID: <83395D44-7E21-4825-8072-37B8D99BDA3D@gmail.com>

Thanks for sharing with us your views.

Two very disturbing things though in you comment:

 "...opinions are, rightly, excluded..."
That must reflect on your highly democratic conception of an open debate. To exclude rightly is usually part of the extreme right parties narrative. Weren't you a multistakeholder equal footing blabla model advocate?

"..extremely fringe opinions..."
Happy to know that you are able to make measurements! Give us the meter. Looking around you, with different binoculars, you would see that some ideas, if not many of the ideas promoted by the "extremely fringe opinions" are gaining, rightly, a lot of attention. From France to Germany, from India to Brazil... Maybe it is time for the pro-US clique to understand that the world on IG has changed and the self ruling self-proclaimed clerics and courtisans have lost their golden age.

I still think Milton should suggest someone else, in a democratic multistakeholder approach. Nothing impossible there. Unless he feels he can wrap up the different major ideas expressed in that IGF


Le 27 août 2014 à 10:04, Suresh Ramasubramanian a écrit :

> Jean-Christophe Nothias [27/08/14 09:57 +0200]:
>> Milton, is it your intent to wrap-up your ideas or try to speak for all
>> the different views expressed during the IGF? You show constantly so much
>> disdain to others' ideas that I feel a bit concerned? Or shall we get some
> 
> Has IG Caucus ever reached a consensus in recent times on anything at all
> substantative?
> 
> Or else, what you're demanding of Milton is practically impossible.
> 
> Even if the extremely fringe opinions are, rightly, excluded, there is a
> very wide middle ground

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From suresh at hserus.net  Wed Aug 27 04:42:54 2014
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 03:42:54 -0500
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for IGF
 Closing Ceremony
In-Reply-To: <83395D44-7E21-4825-8072-37B8D99BDA3D@gmail.com>
References: <CE1414F0127E4948BEBABF0080B655F7@Toshiba>
 <CACTo+v_+c76SbvTkUrEuk=8SaNWT3uhCDwywv3Ysr_XOQsDKkg@mail.gmail.com>
 <959f7a9b422c47038a5dcfeb6b0316b8@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
 <30EB9EE1-9C3F-41FB-A037-6834F9F34BCB@gmail.com>
 <20140827080459.GA14311@hserus.net>
 <83395D44-7E21-4825-8072-37B8D99BDA3D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140827084254.GA16060@hserus.net>

Jean-Christophe Nothias [27/08/14 10:31 +0200]:
> "...opinions are, rightly, excluded..."
>That must reflect on your highly democratic conception of an open debate.
>To exclude rightly is usually part of the extreme right parties narrative.
>Weren't you a multistakeholder equal footing blabla model advocate?

Let us put it this way - 

Personally, I am a centrist. I disagree with the extreme left just as much
as I do the extreme right.

In this case, I am a believer in a consensus, which in this case, forms a
bell curve from which the tail has, necessarily, to be excluded in order to
get a sense of what the vast majority of the group wants.


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From dl at panamo.eu  Wed Aug 27 05:00:55 2014
From: dl at panamo.eu (Dominique Lacroix)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 11:00:55 +0200
Subject: [governance] ...call to declassify Transatlantic Trade and
 Investment Partnership mandate
Message-ID: <53FD9E47.300@panamo.eu>

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ttip-italy-eu-commissioner-demand-negotiation-mandate-be-made-public-1462593

@+, best, Dom

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From jeanchristophe.nothias at gmail.com  Wed Aug 27 05:11:15 2014
From: jeanchristophe.nothias at gmail.com (Jean-Christophe Nothias)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 11:11:15 +0200
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for IGF
 Closing Ceremony
In-Reply-To: <20140827084254.GA16060@hserus.net>
References: <CE1414F0127E4948BEBABF0080B655F7@Toshiba> <CACTo+v_+c76SbvTkUrEuk=8SaNWT3uhCDwywv3Ysr_XOQsDKkg@mail.gmail.com> <959f7a9b422c47038a5dcfeb6b0316b8@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu> <30EB9EE1-9C3F-41FB-A037-6834F9F34BCB@gmail.com> <20140827080459.GA14311@hserus.net> <83395D44-7E21-4825-8072-37B8D99BDA3D@gmail.com> <20140827084254.GA16060@hserus.net>
Message-ID: <8EB48327-BFE8-414B-970D-349669263D72@gmail.com>

Well, I don't know of any centrist- still a democrat - that could write (regarding the diversity of opinions and views in the IG debate) that some opinions should  "rightly" be excluded. You wrote that!

In Switzerland, in France, in many countries where Democracy is vivid, all opinions are there, and force people to consider them, even if they fundamentally disagree. I would add that in the US, anything can be expressed even the darkest most dangerous views, when, to the contrary, Europe regards some opinions as equivalent of  "incitation à la haine" and are therefore banned from the public space.

Now, who is asking for "consensus" in Istanbul? You forget a preliminary step. 

Can't we simply recognize the diversity of views and opinions, even list them if it helps. That would be a first good step and help everyone's reflection.

This is what happen in any democratic congress/parliament where all views are there. So instead of selling la pensée unique du parti unique, a great progress would be : let's assume these diverging opinions, and let's see where some convergence can be achieved. By excluding, rightly in your eyes, views you disagree with, you feed the distrust that has now fully contaminated the IG debate.

There is a moment for maturity in politics. I am waiting for Milton's decision.




Le 27 août 2014 à 10:42, Suresh Ramasubramanian a écrit :

> Jean-Christophe Nothias [27/08/14 10:31 +0200]:
>> "...opinions are, rightly, excluded..."
>> That must reflect on your highly democratic conception of an open debate.
>> To exclude rightly is usually part of the extreme right parties narrative.
>> Weren't you a multistakeholder equal footing blabla model advocate?
> 
> Let us put it this way - 
> Personally, I am a centrist. I disagree with the extreme left just as much
> as I do the extreme right.
> 
> In this case, I am a believer in a consensus, which in this case, forms a
> bell curve from which the tail has, necessarily, to be excluded in order to
> get a sense of what the vast majority of the group wants.
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
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>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
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From lucabelli at hotmail.it  Wed Aug 27 05:11:54 2014
From: lucabelli at hotmail.it (Luca Belli)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 11:11:54 +0200
Subject: [governance] Human Rights @ IGF
Message-ID: <DUB122-W41911436813E4ADF11FE96C6DD0@phx.gbl>



Dear all (apologies for cross-posting),

 

The Council of Europe’s Internet Governance Unit would like
to invite you to two IGF events aimed at nurturing discussions on human rights
and the Internet.

 

The Open Forum “Your Internet, Our Aim: Guide Internet
Users to Their Human Rights!” will take place on 3 September, from 9:00
to 10.30, in room 8 (see http://sched.co/1k5wUqN
). The Open Forum will
ignite discussion with regard to the role and the future of the Guide on Human Rights for Internet Users. You will have the
possibility to take an active
role in shaping the implementation of the Guide, proposing concrete actions
that may be included in the Guide Implementation Project.

 

The Side Meeting on ICANN and human rights, which
will take place on 3 September, from 11.30 to 13.30, in room 11 (see: http://sched.co/1k5OqLz ).The Side Meeting
aims at triggering an open and inclusive dialogue on ICANN’s procedures and
policies in the light of human rights, fundamental freedoms and democratic
values. It will be based on the CoE
report, written by Dr Monika Zalnieriute and Thomas Schneider, that was
presented and discussed at ICANN50 meeting.  

 

Both events will be live-streamed and remote participation
will be possible. Instructions for remote participation will be posted on http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/ 

 

We look forward to seeing you.

Best regards, 

Luca  

 


 
  
   
  
   
   
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
   
   
   
  
   
  
  
  
   
  Luca Belli 

  Internet Governance Unit 
  DGI –
  Human Rights and Rule of Law
  Tel. + 33 (0)
  3 88 41 43 13
  E-mail : luca.belli at coe.int 
  Hub www.coe.int/informationsociety 
  
 



 		 	   		  
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From suresh at hserus.net  Wed Aug 27 05:31:29 2014
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 15:01:29 +0530
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for IGF
 Closing Ceremony
In-Reply-To: <8EB48327-BFE8-414B-970D-349669263D72@gmail.com>
References: <CE1414F0127E4948BEBABF0080B655F7@Toshiba> <CACTo+v_+c76SbvTkUrEuk=8SaNWT3uhCDwywv3Ysr_XOQsDKkg@mail.gmail.com> <959f7a9b422c47038a5dcfeb6b0316b8@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu> <30EB9EE1-9C3F-41FB-A037-6834F9F34BCB@gmail.com> <20140827080459.GA14311@hserus.net> <83395D44-7E21-4825-8072-37B8D99BDA3D@gmail.com> <20140827084254.GA16060@hserus.net> <8EB48327-BFE8-414B-970D-349669263D72@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6BA89CB0-7EF9-42DC-9EAC-7FF16918A824@hserus.net>

A centre generally does exclude extreme opinions on either side of the political spectrum

Feel free to list them, but if you wish to proceed further than just a laundry list of statements, then working toward consensus - across stakeholder groups - becomes inevitable.

--srs (iPad)

> On 27-Aug-2014, at 14:41, Jean-Christophe Nothias <jeanchristophe.nothias at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Well, I don't know of any centrist- still a democrat - that could write (regarding the diversity of opinions and views in the IG debate) that some opinions should  "rightly" be excluded. You wrote that!
> 
> In Switzerland, in France, in many countries where Democracy is vivid, all opinions are there, and force people to consider them, even if they fundamentally disagree. I would add that in the US, anything can be expressed even the darkest most dangerous views, when, to the contrary, Europe regards some opinions as equivalent of  "incitation à la haine" and are therefore banned from the public space.
> 
> Now, who is asking for "consensus" in Istanbul? You forget a preliminary step. 
> 
> Can't we simply recognize the diversity of views and opinions, even list them if it helps. That would be a first good step and help everyone's reflection.
> 
> This is what happen in any democratic congress/parliament where all views are there. So instead of selling la pensée unique du parti unique, a great progress would be : let's assume these diverging opinions, and let's see where some convergence can be achieved. By excluding, rightly in your eyes, views you disagree with, you feed the distrust that has now fully contaminated the IG debate.
> 
> There is a moment for maturity in politics. I am waiting for Milton's decision.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> Le 27 août 2014 à 10:42, Suresh Ramasubramanian a écrit :
>> 
>> Jean-Christophe Nothias [27/08/14 10:31 +0200]:
>>> "...opinions are, rightly, excluded..."
>>> That must reflect on your highly democratic conception of an open debate.
>>> To exclude rightly is usually part of the extreme right parties narrative.
>>> Weren't you a multistakeholder equal footing blabla model advocate?
>> 
>> Let us put it this way - 
>> Personally, I am a centrist. I disagree with the extreme left just as much
>> as I do the extreme right.
>> 
>> In this case, I am a believer in a consensus, which in this case, forms a
>> bell curve from which the tail has, necessarily, to be excluded in order to
>> get a sense of what the vast majority of the group wants.
>> 
>> 
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> 
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> 
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> 
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From jefsey at jefsey.com  Wed Aug 27 07:39:29 2014
From: jefsey at jefsey.com (Jefsey)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 13:39:29 +0200
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for  IGF
 Closing Ceremony
In-Reply-To: <6BA89CB0-7EF9-42DC-9EAC-7FF16918A824@hserus.net>
References: <CE1414F0127E4948BEBABF0080B655F7@Toshiba>
 <CACTo+v_+c76SbvTkUrEuk=8SaNWT3uhCDwywv3Ysr_XOQsDKkg@mail.gmail.com>
 <959f7a9b422c47038a5dcfeb6b0316b8@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
 <30EB9EE1-9C3F-41FB-A037-6834F9F34BCB@gmail.com>
 <20140827080459.GA14311@hserus.net>
 <83395D44-7E21-4825-8072-37B8D99BDA3D@gmail.com>
 <20140827084254.GA16060@hserus.net>
 <8EB48327-BFE8-414B-970D-349669263D72@gmail.com>
 <6BA89CB0-7EF9-42DC-9EAC-7FF16918A824@hserus.net>
Message-ID: <E1XMbSx-0008DF-Ux@igcaucus.org>

At 11:31 27/08/2014, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote:
>A centre generally does exclude extreme opinions on either side of 
>the political spectrum
>Feel free to list them, but if you wish to proceed further than just 
>a laundry list of statements, then working toward consensus - across 
>stakeholder groups - becomes inevitable.

Trimmed for commercial community pads receivers and to stay as 
non-partisan as possible.

Suresh,

We confuse the usual consensus/compromise issue. We disagree on 
compromise: therefore the consensus can only be a multi-consensus. It 
means that we have consensually described and report our lack of 
consensus, which the sub-consensus are, and the way for the various 
identified sub-consensual communities interelate.

The question is: "do we trust Milton to present this multi-consensus, 
or do we fear he introduces his own vision of a compromise?"
The issue is: "what is to be enhanced cooperation within the Internet 
Governance?".

The IGF is the Internet Governance Forum, for Govs, Corps, 
International Orgs and CS to concert about the Internet and develop 
enhanced cooperations supported by dynamic coalitions. The task of 
understanding what is enhanced cooperation was to be worked on 
through the IGF.

This has been done:

- most of the CS (most people on this list) and Govs have worked 
along an intellectual/legal point approach of the Governance.

- for two years last week, those (including CS people like me) who 
have worked from a pragmatic evaluation of the Internet have
   - come to a paradigmatic/consensual understanding,
   - published it,
   - and acted upon it.

   - I questionned that understanding (IETF appeal) because it could 
be out of tune with the CS and Govs (WCIT) majority approaches.

   - However, while I was reaching the ultimate layer (ISOC appeal), 
the NTIA preempted their response in bridging their minority (WCIT) 
Government position both with the technical community consensus, and 
with the common thinking of the industry incumbents (which 
geographically fall under US legal jurisdiction).

The question becomes: "do we think Milton will think and speak along 
an obsolete or an up to date reality framework?".

Depending on the case Milton will either sound as:
- out of tune with all those who have accepted it (we are talking 
about their "huge bounty").
- or able to correct the probably suicidal money centric creep and 
lead it back to its people centered assignement.


For the time being "Enhanced cooperation" has therefore been:

- defined:  at the normative layer
   by the OpenStand (RFC 6852) Affirmation,

- approved: at the strategic layer
   by the Montevideo Statement,

- enacted: at the political layer
   by SaoPaulo's NetMundial

- now pursued: at global governance layer
   by its economical WEF planned mentors.

The eventual questions therefore are:

1. "do we trust Milton to present this multi-consensus, or do we fear 
he introduces his own vision of a compromise?"
2. "do we believe Milton will think and speak along an obsolete or an 
up to date reality framework?".
3. more seriously: "is the US/WEF scheme credible in the middle range?"

jfc


NB. WEF/Davos:

- Wikipedia: "The foundation is funded by its 1,000 member companies, 
typically global enterprises with more than five billion dollars in 
turnover (varying by industry and region). These enterprises rank 
among the top companies within their industry and/or country and play 
a leading role in shaping the future of their industry and/or region").

- In our internet world we know them as the US GAFAM+:  they are the 
leaders of RFC 6852 business "global communities" accumulating the 
RFC 6852 "huge bounty".

   
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From suresh at hserus.net  Wed Aug 27 07:47:53 2014
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 17:17:53 +0530
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for IGF
 Closing Ceremony
References: <CE1414F0127E4948BEBABF0080B655F7@Toshiba>
 <CACTo+v_+c76SbvTkUrEuk=8SaNWT3uhCDwywv3Ysr_XOQsDKkg@mail.gmail.com>
 <959f7a9b422c47038a5dcfeb6b0316b8@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
 <30EB9EE1-9C3F-41FB-A037-6834F9F34BCB@gmail.com>
 <20140827080459.GA14311@hserus.net>
 <83395D44-7E21-4825-8072-37B8D99BDA3D@gmail.com>
 <20140827084254.GA16060@hserus.net>
 <8EB48327-BFE8-414B-970D-349669263D72@gmail.com>
 <6BA89CB0-7EF9-42DC-9EAC-7FF16918A824@hserus.net>
Message-ID: <148174afb18.27e9.4f968dcf8ecd56c9cb8acab6370fcfe0@hserus.net>

Whether you trust milton or not is a rather separate issue, surely?


On 27 August 2014 5:09:56 pm Jefsey <jefsey at jefsey.com> wrote:

> At 11:31 27/08/2014, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote:
> >A centre generally does exclude extreme opinions on either side of
> >the political spectrum
> >Feel free to list them, but if you wish to proceed further than just
> >a laundry list of statements, then working toward consensus - across
> >stakeholder groups - becomes inevitable.
>
> Trimmed for commercial community pads receivers and to stay as
> non-partisan as possible.
>
> Suresh,
>
> We confuse the usual consensus/compromise issue. We disagree on
> compromise: therefore the consensus can only be a multi-consensus. It
> means that we have consensually described and report our lack of
> consensus, which the sub-consensus are, and the way for the various
> identified sub-consensual communities interelate.
>
> The question is: "do we trust Milton to present this multi-consensus,
> or do we fear he introduces his own vision of a compromise?"
> The issue is: "what is to be enhanced cooperation within the Internet
> Governance?".
>
> The IGF is the Internet Governance Forum, for Govs, Corps,
> International Orgs and CS to concert about the Internet and develop
> enhanced cooperations supported by dynamic coalitions. The task of
> understanding what is enhanced cooperation was to be worked on
> through the IGF.
>
> This has been done:
>
> - most of the CS (most people on this list) and Govs have worked
> along an intellectual/legal point approach of the Governance.
>
> - for two years last week, those (including CS people like me) who
> have worked from a pragmatic evaluation of the Internet have
>    - come to a paradigmatic/consensual understanding,
>    - published it,
>    - and acted upon it.
>
>    - I questionned that understanding (IETF appeal) because it could
> be out of tune with the CS and Govs (WCIT) majority approaches.
>
>    - However, while I was reaching the ultimate layer (ISOC appeal),
> the NTIA preempted their response in bridging their minority (WCIT)
> Government position both with the technical community consensus, and
> with the common thinking of the industry incumbents (which
> geographically fall under US legal jurisdiction).
>
> The question becomes: "do we think Milton will think and speak along
> an obsolete or an up to date reality framework?".
>
> Depending on the case Milton will either sound as:
> - out of tune with all those who have accepted it (we are talking
> about their "huge bounty").
> - or able to correct the probably suicidal money centric creep and
> lead it back to its people centered assignement.
>
>
> For the time being "Enhanced cooperation" has therefore been:
>
> - defined:  at the normative layer
>    by the OpenStand (RFC 6852) Affirmation,
>
> - approved: at the strategic layer
>    by the Montevideo Statement,
>
> - enacted: at the political layer
>    by SaoPaulo's NetMundial
>
> - now pursued: at global governance layer
>    by its economical WEF planned mentors.
>
> The eventual questions therefore are:
>
> 1. "do we trust Milton to present this multi-consensus, or do we fear
> he introduces his own vision of a compromise?"
> 2. "do we believe Milton will think and speak along an obsolete or an
> up to date reality framework?".
> 3. more seriously: "is the US/WEF scheme credible in the middle range?"
>
> jfc
>
>
> NB. WEF/Davos:
>
> - Wikipedia: "The foundation is funded by its 1,000 member companies,
> typically global enterprises with more than five billion dollars in
> turnover (varying by industry and region). These enterprises rank
> among the top companies within their industry and/or country and play
> a leading role in shaping the future of their industry and/or region").
>
> - In our internet world we know them as the US GAFAM+:  they are the
> leaders of RFC 6852 business "global communities" accumulating the
> RFC 6852 "huge bounty".
>
>
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From jyoti at cis-india.org  Wed Aug 27 08:02:43 2014
From: jyoti at cis-india.org (Jyoti Panday)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 17:32:43 +0530
Subject: [governance] IGF workshop An evidence based intermediary liability
 policy framework
Message-ID: <53FDC8E3.7000206@cis-india.org>

Dear All,

The Centre for Internet and Society, Bangalore, India and Centre for
Internet and Society, Stanford, USA would like to invite you to attend
their IGF 2014 workshop aimed at nurturing a liability framework
consistent with international human-rights standards.

'An evidence based intermediary liability policy framework' will take
place on Wednesday, September 3 between 4:30pm - 6:00pm (see
http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/schedule-igf2014).

The workshop  and will be an opportunity to present and discuss ongoing
research on the changing definition of intermediaries and their
responsibilities across jurisdictions and technologies.

The workshop will be live-streamed and remote participation
will be possible. Instructions for remote participation will be posted
on http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/

We look forward to your participation and apologies for cross-posting.

Regards,

Jyoti Panday

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From jlfullsack at orange.fr  Wed Aug 27 08:24:41 2014
From: jlfullsack at orange.fr (Jean-Louis FULLSACK)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 14:24:41 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for IGF
 Closing Ceremony
In-Reply-To: <30EB9EE1-9C3F-41FB-A037-6834F9F34BCB@gmail.com>
References: <CE1414F0127E4948BEBABF0080B655F7@Toshiba>
 <CACTo+v_+c76SbvTkUrEuk=8SaNWT3uhCDwywv3Ysr_XOQsDKkg@mail.gmail.com>
 <959f7a9b422c47038a5dcfeb6b0316b8@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
 <30EB9EE1-9C3F-41FB-A037-6834F9F34BCB@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <258288833.13616.1409142281273.JavaMail.www@wwinf1e27>

Un cordial "+1",  Jean-Chrostophe !

 

Jean-Louis Fullsack








> Message du 27/08/14 09:59
> De : "Jean-Christophe Nothias" 
> A : "Ian Peter" , "Civil Society Internet Governance Caucus - IGC" , "Milton L Mueller" 
> Copie à : "Mawaki Chango" 
> Objet : Re: [governance] Fwd: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for IGF Closing Ceremony
> 
>Hi,

>
Unexpected is quite the word.

>
Milton, is it your intent to wrap-up your ideas or try to speak for all the different views expressed during the IGF? You show constantly so much disdain to others' ideas that I feel a bit concerned? Or shall we get some pure libertarian/US juice, still pro-US-dominatio? Would be interested to learn how you envision your role at this closing ceremony. What means "interesting things to say"? Hmm.

>
By the way, with all due respect, do you think Milton this is fair for the IGF closing ceremony to have the two closing speakers at IGF 2014 to be supported by US fundings? Burcu is based in DC - indeed a Turkish expat-, and you are based in Syracuse.
Dr Kilic is listed as a staff at the President's Office of Public Citizen, a US organization that states: "We fight on behalf of all Americans - to make sure you government works for you". Burcu's twitter account present here as: "Patent geek, digital rights advocate, IP scholar, lawyer, globetrotter and wannabe photographer; Public Citizen's Global Access to Medicines Program"

>
I can imagine that such a debate for selecting the two final CS speakers was far from easy.

>
But then Milton, assuming that we agree on a multi-view approach, why don't you simply pass on the mic to someone else, for a change, and for a less asymmetric closing ceremony. That would be quite a signal and elegant move. Let's see what the secretariat has to say.

>
And maybe one last question to Ian (congratulations for your nomination), what do we expect as CS from the last two speakers? Have you got a pitch on this?

>
JC

>

>

>

Le 27 août 2014 à 04:56, Milton L Mueller a écrit :




This is quite an honor, all the more so for being totally unexpected. I will wait to see if the Secretariat approves these nominees; if so, I promise to have some interesting things to say! Congratulations to Dr Burcu Kilic as well; I look forward to listening to her.
 
Milton L Mueller
Syracuse University School of Information Studies
http://faculty.ischool.syr.edu/mueller/
Internet Governance Project
http://internetgovernance.org
 
 
 



From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Mawaki Chango
> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 5:49 AM
> To: Internet Governance
> Subject: [governance] Fwd: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for IGF Closing Ceremony


 


Dear all,


 


The Civil Society Coordination Group (CSCG) has forwarded the below two CS nominations to the IGF Secretariat for speaker spots at the Istanbul IGF's closing ceremony. As one of your two IGC co-Coordinators, I have been tasked to represent this Caucus within that Group. Therefore and for your information, I am hereby forwarding the letter addressed by the CSCG Chair to the IGF Secretariat to that effect. At this point in time and in absence of well-developed and established selection procedures, all the Group members have done the best we could to choose those we believe (for various reasons) to be the strongest candidates for this opportunity among all strong candidates. It is our intent and part of our post-Istanbul agenda to work on clearly developing such procedures.


 


For now, let us congratulate the nominees, Milton and Burcu.


Best regards,


 


Mawaki 


IGC Co-Coordinator and IGC Rep. to CS Coordination Group


 

 

---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Ian Peter 
> Date: Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:21 AM
> Subject: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for IGF Closing Ceremony
> To: igf at unog.ch
> Cc: cs-coord at lists.bestbits.net, Subi Chaturvedi 
> 
>




Dear Secretariat,

Subi Chaturvedi passed on to us your request for civil society nominations for speakers for this years IGF Closing Ceremony. Thank you for ensuring that civil society is involved in choosing its representatives to speak on this occasion.

This request was dealt with by the Internet Governance Civil Society Co ordination Group (CSCG). This peak group consists of representatives of the major civil society coalitions involved in Internet Governance issues, including Internet Governance Caucus, Best Bits, Association for Progressive Communications, Diplo Foundation, Just Net Coalition, Civicus, and Non Commercial Stakeholders Group of ICANN. The group, founded in 2013, has a primary role to ensure a co-ordinated civil society response and conduit when it comes to making civil society appointments to outside bodies. This was accepted and respected during the NetMundial (Brazil) process, and by the 1net community, and we will be pleased to also work with IGF in the future as regards civil society representation.

It was therefore appropriate for this body to consider the question of speakers for the IGF closing session as requested.

After calling for expressions of interest and nominations through the various networks, the CSCG discussed prospective speakers and makes the following recommendations.

Firstly, we believe that civil society must have two speakers. Just like governments or any other stakeholder group, we have more perspectives than can be handled with just one speaking slot,  and even with two speakers we feel we are under-represented.

With this in mind, and bearing also in mind the multistakeholder principle that stakeholders should choose their own representatives, we submit the following two names.

 SPEAKER NO 1

Our first speaker is Dr Burcu Kilic. Dr Kilic is a Turkish citizen who is an expert on legal, economic and political issues surrounding intellectual property law, policy, development and innovation. We are pleased to be able to nominate such a talented speaker from the host country.

SPEAKER NO 2

Our second speaker is Dr Milton Mueller. Dr Mueller is a Professor at Syracuse University. His research, teaching and public service for the last 15 years have been concentrated on the internet governance arena. 

Please let us know if you need any further information or contact details.

 

Sincerely,

 

 

Ian Peter

Independent Chair, on behalf of the Internet Governance Civil Society Coordination Group





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>




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From gurstein at gmail.com  Wed Aug 27 10:59:13 2014
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 07:59:13 -0700
Subject: [governance] FW: [IP] Internet down for 12m US households as Time
 Warner Cable suffers outage | Technology | The Guardian
In-Reply-To: <583B8996-7DFF-4301-B057-EF6173E75D65@gmail.com>
References: <583B8996-7DFF-4301-B057-EF6173E75D65@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0e5301cfc207$775f7d20$661e7760$@gmail.com>



-----Original Message-----
From: David Farber via ip [mailto:ip at listbox.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 6:29 AM
To: ip
Subject: [IP] Internet down for 12m US households as Time Warner Cable
suffers outage | Technology | The Guardian


http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/aug/27/internet-down-time-warner-
cable-outage?CMP=ema_565 



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From gurstein at gmail.com  Wed Aug 27 10:59:13 2014
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 07:59:13 -0700
Subject: [governance] Major Internet Outages in the US
Message-ID: <0e5401cfc207$77e74ac0$67b5e040$@gmail.com>

The Internet apparently has been down for millions in the US for several
hours. Problems with Time Warner Cable.

 

M

 


Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 7:31 AM
Subject: Learnings from @DownDetector

 

Time Warner Cable has been down for hours here in New York City. Also Los
Angeles, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and dozens of other cities. Go to
DownDetector.com <http://downdetector.com/>  and you'll see charts and maps
for many ISPs and Web services. Interesting stuff. Never saw it before. (I'm
getting on the Net by grace of T-Mobile and my cell phone. Guess TWC doesn't
handle T-M's backhaul.)

 

Here is TWC's outage chart <http://downdetector.com/> , and here's a map of
current outage areas <http://downdetector.com/status/time-warner-cable> .

 

Here is
<http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/vrm/2014/08/27/learning-from-bad-twc-cx/>
something reported earlier (with a map) when it was worse. 

 

Here is @TWC_Help <https://twitter.com/twc_help> . It's so unhelpful that it
reminds me of National Lampoon's old Tell Debby column. (Look up "Debby" in
this archive here
<https://archive.org/stream/National_Lampoon_v1n45_1973-12_Self-Indulgence/N
ational_Lampoon_v1n45_1973-12_Self-Indulgence_djvu.txt> . Her advice to the
agonized was usually something like "How very unfortunate.") @TWC_Help's
last three posts were a few hours ago, five days ago and twelve days ago.
The latest one says "We're working to restore services to all areas as
quickly as possible; no ETR. Tweets will be delayed while this is
addressed." I guess @TWC_Help's lone tweeter needs to put on a hard hat and
work down a manhole somewhere. "All hands on... something!"

 

As you can see from the chart above, TWC seems to be getting on top of the
problem. The Net just came back up here at my corner of Manhattan (the north
one). Meanwhile, it's interesting to scan across DownDetector to see what's
up, at least around the U.S. Particulars: AT
<http://downdetector.com/status/att> &T, Charter
<http://downdetector.com/status/charter-communications> , Netflix
<http://downdetector.com/status/netflix> . All the others (and they are
legion) go to 404s.

 

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From mueller at syr.edu  Wed Aug 27 12:26:20 2014
From: mueller at syr.edu (Milton L Mueller)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 16:26:20 +0000
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for IGF
 Closing Ceremony
In-Reply-To: <20140827084254.GA16060@hserus.net>
References: <CE1414F0127E4948BEBABF0080B655F7@Toshiba>
 <CACTo+v_+c76SbvTkUrEuk=8SaNWT3uhCDwywv3Ysr_XOQsDKkg@mail.gmail.com>
 <959f7a9b422c47038a5dcfeb6b0316b8@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
 <30EB9EE1-9C3F-41FB-A037-6834F9F34BCB@gmail.com>
 <20140827080459.GA14311@hserus.net>
 <83395D44-7E21-4825-8072-37B8D99BDA3D@gmail.com>
 <20140827084254.GA16060@hserus.net>
Message-ID: <d87516996d0b4cd38120e763ec719540@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>

A few words about the broader issues related to speaker selection:

In a group as large and diverse as this, any speaker who does not make any one of us just a little bit uncomfortable is probably not saying anything meaningful or worthwhile. This is one of the reasons IGF as a whole is perilously close to being broken; there are too many lowest common denominator filtering mechanisms that prevent anything challenging from being said or done, especially in main sessions.

The idea that any speaker would speak for all of civil society, much less every individual on this list,  is not just an impossible standard; to my mind it reflects a misunderstanding of what civil society is supposed to be and to do in these environments. We are the free and diverse elements of the governance institution; we are supposed to reflect new and challenging ideas, not to conform or be acceptable. There is not now and never will be a "peak association" that speaks for all of us as if we were a trade association of oil producers or farmers.

I have 15 years of history in fighting for an institutionalized presence for civil society in Internet governance institutions; I was there when IGF was created and played a role shaping its initial consultations. Throughout that process I've helped to provide representation, speaking platforms and even funding to many people I don't agree with wholly, but am willing to fight for their right to be heard. As a scholar and writer I've taken a number of well-considered positions and performed analyses of key issues. I suspect that the committee chose me for those reasons.

Drawing on that experience, and these perspectives, I will say what I believe needs to be said in the context of the IGF closing. 

Milton L Mueller
Laura J and L. Douglas Meredith Professor 
Syracuse University School of Information Studies
http://faculty.ischool.syr.edu/mueller/ 



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Suresh Ramasubramanian [mailto:suresh at hserus.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 4:43 AM
> To: Jean-Christophe Nothias
> Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Ian Peter; Milton L Mueller; Mawaki
> Chango
> Subject: Re: [governance] Fwd: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for IGF
> Closing Ceremony
> 
> Jean-Christophe Nothias [27/08/14 10:31 +0200]:
> > "...opinions are, rightly, excluded..."
> >That must reflect on your highly democratic conception of an open debate.
> >To exclude rightly is usually part of the extreme right parties narrative.
> >Weren't you a multistakeholder equal footing blabla model advocate?
> 
> Let us put it this way -
> 
> Personally, I am a centrist. I disagree with the extreme left just as much as I
> do the extreme right.
> 
> In this case, I am a believer in a consensus, which in this case, forms a bell
> curve from which the tail has, necessarily, to be excluded in order to get a
> sense of what the vast majority of the group wants.


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From jefsey at jefsey.com  Wed Aug 27 13:37:41 2014
From: jefsey at jefsey.com (Jefsey)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 19:37:41 +0200
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for  IGF
 Closing Ceremony
In-Reply-To: <148174afb18.27e9.4f968dcf8ecd56c9cb8acab6370fcfe0@hserus.n
 et>
References: <CE1414F0127E4948BEBABF0080B655F7@Toshiba>
 <CACTo+v_+c76SbvTkUrEuk=8SaNWT3uhCDwywv3Ysr_XOQsDKkg@mail.gmail.com>
 <959f7a9b422c47038a5dcfeb6b0316b8@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
 <30EB9EE1-9C3F-41FB-A037-6834F9F34BCB@gmail.com>
 <20140827080459.GA14311@hserus.net>
 <83395D44-7E21-4825-8072-37B8D99BDA3D@gmail.com>
 <20140827084254.GA16060@hserus.net>
 <8EB48327-BFE8-414B-970D-349669263D72@gmail.com>
 <6BA89CB0-7EF9-42DC-9EAC-7FF16918A824@hserus.net>
 <148174afb18.27e9.4f968dcf8ecd56c9cb8acab6370fcfe0@hserus.net>
Message-ID: <E1XMh3P-0001Kc-4C@igcaucus.org>

At 13:47 27/08/2014, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote:

>Whether you trust milton or not is a rather separate issue, surely?

I am sorry, but I do not understand your question.
jfc



>On 27 August 2014 5:09:56 pm Jefsey <jefsey at jefsey.com> wrote:
>>At 11:31 27/08/2014, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote:
>>>A centre generally does exclude extreme opinions on either side of 
>>>the political spectrum
>>>Feel free to list them, but if you wish to proceed further than 
>>>just a laundry list of statements, then working toward consensus - 
>>>across stakeholder groups - becomes inevitable.
>>
>>Trimmed for commercial community pads receivers and to stay as 
>>non-partisan as possible.
>>
>>Suresh,
>>
>>We confuse the usual consensus/compromise issue. We disagree on 
>>compromise: therefore the consensus can only be a multi-consensus. 
>>It means that we have consensually described and report our lack of 
>>consensus, which the sub-consensus are, and the way for the various 
>>identified sub-consensual communities interelate.
>>
>>The question is: "do we trust Milton to present this 
>>multi-consensus, or do we fear he introduces his own vision of a compromise?"
>>The issue is: "what is to be enhanced cooperation within the 
>>Internet Governance?".
>>
>>The IGF is the Internet Governance Forum, for Govs, Corps, 
>>International Orgs and CS to concert about the Internet and develop 
>>enhanced cooperations supported by dynamic coalitions. The task of 
>>understanding what is enhanced cooperation was to be worked on 
>>through the IGF.
>>
>>This has been done:
>>
>>- most of the CS (most people on this list) and Govs have worked 
>>along an intellectual/legal point approach of the Governance.
>>
>>- for two years last week, those (including CS people like me) who 
>>have worked from a pragmatic evaluation of the Internet have
>>   - come to a paradigmatic/consensual understanding,
>>   - published it,
>>   - and acted upon it.
>>
>>   - I questionned that understanding (IETF appeal) because it 
>> could be out of tune with the CS and Govs (WCIT) majority approaches.
>>
>>   - However, while I was reaching the ultimate layer (ISOC 
>> appeal), the NTIA preempted their response in bridging their 
>> minority (WCIT) Government position both with the technical 
>> community consensus, and with the common thinking of the industry 
>> incumbents (which geographically fall under US legal jurisdiction).
>>
>>The question becomes: "do we think Milton will think and speak 
>>along an obsolete or an up to date reality framework?".
>>
>>Depending on the case Milton will either sound as:
>>- out of tune with all those who have accepted it (we are talking 
>>about their "huge bounty").
>>- or able to correct the probably suicidal money centric creep and 
>>lead it back to its people centered assignement.
>>
>>
>>For the time being "Enhanced cooperation" has therefore been:
>>
>>- defined:  at the normative layer
>>   by the OpenStand (RFC 6852) Affirmation,
>>
>>- approved: at the strategic layer
>>   by the Montevideo Statement,
>>
>>- enacted: at the political layer
>>   by SaoPaulo's NetMundial
>>
>>- now pursued: at global governance layer
>>   by its economical WEF planned mentors.
>>
>>The eventual questions therefore are:
>>
>>1. "do we trust Milton to present this multi-consensus, or do we 
>>fear he introduces his own vision of a compromise?"
>>2. "do we believe Milton will think and speak along an obsolete or 
>>an up to date reality framework?".
>>3. more seriously: "is the US/WEF scheme credible in the middle range?"
>>
>>jfc
>>
>>
>>NB. WEF/Davos:
>>
>>- Wikipedia: "The foundation is funded by its 1,000 member 
>>companies, typically global enterprises with more than five billion 
>>dollars in turnover (varying by industry and region). These 
>>enterprises rank among the top companies within their industry 
>>and/or country and play a leading role in shaping the future of 
>>their industry and/or region").
>>
>>- In our internet world we know them as the US GAFAM+:  they are 
>>the leaders of RFC 6852 business "global communities" accumulating 
>>the RFC 6852 "huge bounty".
>>
>>
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>Content-Disposition: inline; filename="message-footer.txt"
>
>____________________________________________________________
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From jeanchristophe.nothias at gmail.com  Wed Aug 27 13:41:05 2014
From: jeanchristophe.nothias at gmail.com (Jean-Christophe Nothias)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 19:41:05 +0200
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for IGF
 Closing Ceremony
In-Reply-To: <d87516996d0b4cd38120e763ec719540@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
References: <CE1414F0127E4948BEBABF0080B655F7@Toshiba> <CACTo+v_+c76SbvTkUrEuk=8SaNWT3uhCDwywv3Ysr_XOQsDKkg@mail.gmail.com> <959f7a9b422c47038a5dcfeb6b0316b8@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu> <30EB9EE1-9C3F-41FB-A037-6834F9F34BCB@gmail.com> <20140827080459.GA14311@hserus.net> <83395D44-7E21-4825-8072-37B8D99BDA3D@gmail.com> <20140827084254.GA16060@hserus.net> <d87516996d0b4cd38120e763ec719540@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <D848333D-DE22-4561-A3A7-376F06B41D1A@gmail.com>

Milton,

Why is it that you hardly make a difference between: 
- One hero  delivering a speech that would be a "rough-consensus" summary, some sort of fusion of all ideas expressed by CS
and
- One decent honest broker trying to express what are the diverse opinions, highlighting where he might see ground for possible consensus/progress/convergence (don't need to be "rough" under a democratic flag)
?

Who talks about that bizarre pot where everything would melt and reappear in a fabulous narrative turned non sense. I am really wondering.

The point is not for the closing ceremony speakers to invent a consensus. Just maybe to speak for all the diversity of views and opinions. Out of partisanship. 


By trying to rush to these minimalist grounds (I agree with you over the danger that they represent), all debates, all discussions are simply lost for any progress or pragmatism, to the profit of the dominant party. This is where this game, in all venues, is being twisted for years. And your answer is simply made of the same poor glue. Stick to the mainstream powerful, with some kinder gardens here and there for the "good guys" to enjoy a ride to Montevideo, Sao Paulo... And sometime stands-up and say "what you believe need to be said".

In your answer, you precisely use the existence of these minimalist results, part of your own thinking and handling of the IG debate, to refuse the debate. When you should to the contrary come to think over that little moment, as something that could be different. A signal for progress!

But by refusing to have a diversity of views, the two brilliants US CS members, speakers at the closing ceremony will betray the need for a democratic MS build-up called in by the Sao Paulo declaration. Do you remember the statement on that?

Say what "YOU" believe needs to be said. Fine. I am sure you will have the two standard laughing moments like all good US speakers do.  Good for you indeed. But this will simply be another shot in the air.

IG doesn't need heroes carrying dead rough consensus, it needs debates, honest debates, and diversity of expressions and views, before it can even think of converging to a form/state of progress. I am simply one among many that speaks in the open on this issue. Sorry about that.

JC
(I still wish you the best for your speech)



Le 27 août 2014 à 18:26, Milton L Mueller a écrit :

> A few words about the broader issues related to speaker selection:
> 
> In a group as large and diverse as this, any speaker who does not make any one of us just a little bit uncomfortable is probably not saying anything meaningful or worthwhile. This is one of the reasons IGF as a whole is perilously close to being broken; there are too many lowest common denominator filtering mechanisms that prevent anything challenging from being said or done, especially in main sessions.
> 
> The idea that any speaker would speak for all of civil society, much less every individual on this list,  is not just an impossible standard; to my mind it reflects a misunderstanding of what civil society is supposed to be and to do in these environments. We are the free and diverse elements of the governance institution; we are supposed to reflect new and challenging ideas, not to conform or be acceptable. There is not now and never will be a "peak association" that speaks for all of us as if we were a trade association of oil producers or farmers.
> 
> I have 15 years of history in fighting for an institutionalized presence for civil society in Internet governance institutions; I was there when IGF was created and played a role shaping its initial consultations. Throughout that process I've helped to provide representation, speaking platforms and even funding to many people I don't agree with wholly, but am willing to fight for their right to be heard. As a scholar and writer I've taken a number of well-considered positions and performed analyses of key issues. I suspect that the committee chose me for those reasons.
> 
> Drawing on that experience, and these perspectives, I will say what I believe needs to be said in the context of the IGF closing. 
> 
> Milton L Mueller
> Laura J and L. Douglas Meredith Professor 
> Syracuse University School of Information Studies
> http://faculty.ischool.syr.edu/mueller/ 
> 
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Suresh Ramasubramanian [mailto:suresh at hserus.net]
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 4:43 AM
>> To: Jean-Christophe Nothias
>> Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Ian Peter; Milton L Mueller; Mawaki
>> Chango
>> Subject: Re: [governance] Fwd: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for IGF
>> Closing Ceremony
>> 
>> Jean-Christophe Nothias [27/08/14 10:31 +0200]:
>>> "...opinions are, rightly, excluded..."
>>> That must reflect on your highly democratic conception of an open debate.
>>> To exclude rightly is usually part of the extreme right parties narrative.
>>> Weren't you a multistakeholder equal footing blabla model advocate?
>> 
>> Let us put it this way -
>> 
>> Personally, I am a centrist. I disagree with the extreme left just as much as I
>> do the extreme right.
>> 
>> In this case, I am a believer in a consensus, which in this case, forms a bell
>> curve from which the tail has, necessarily, to be excluded in order to get a
>> sense of what the vast majority of the group wants.
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
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>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
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>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
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From bzs at world.std.com  Wed Aug 27 14:03:37 2014
From: bzs at world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 14:03:37 -0400
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for IGF
 Closing Ceremony
In-Reply-To: <d87516996d0b4cd38120e763ec719540@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
References: <CE1414F0127E4948BEBABF0080B655F7@Toshiba>
	<CACTo+v_+c76SbvTkUrEuk=8SaNWT3uhCDwywv3Ysr_XOQsDKkg@mail.gmail.com>
	<959f7a9b422c47038a5dcfeb6b0316b8@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
	<30EB9EE1-9C3F-41FB-A037-6834F9F34BCB@gmail.com>
	<20140827080459.GA14311@hserus.net>
	<83395D44-7E21-4825-8072-37B8D99BDA3D@gmail.com>
	<20140827084254.GA16060@hserus.net>
	<d87516996d0b4cd38120e763ec719540@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <21502.7545.389458.405086@world.std.com>


Well said, Milton.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

The World              | bzs at TheWorld.com           | http://www.TheWorld.com
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD        | Dial-Up: US, PR, Canada
Software Tool & Die    | Public Access Internet     | SINCE 1989     *oo*

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From rguerra at privaterra.org  Wed Aug 27 15:02:36 2014
From: rguerra at privaterra.org (Robert Guerra)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 15:02:36 -0400
Subject: [governance] IGF Workshop session #107 - Internet blocking: When
 well intentioned measures go too far
Message-ID: <069062DC-0638-4DAF-8D16-DC10686F4400@privaterra.org>

Dear all,

Paul Vixie and I are co-organizing ICANN SSAC’s workshop session #107 on an aspect of Internet Blocking that, IMHO, hasn’t received the attention it has needed. That being the unfortunate, at times large scale blocking that can occur by third parties/ intermediaries. Two recent examples - SpamHouse’s block of Sweden recently & Microsoft’s seizure of No-IP’s domain names . The later getting a lot of attention by experts and NGO’s such as EFF - https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/07/microsoft-and-noip-what-were-they-thinking

The session is being run as an facilitated dialogue - with short opening comments, and then a conversation with the panelists and those attending the session.

To help inform the conversation, Paul, myself and others members of the SSAC have developed a discussion paper for the workshop. The document can be found at the following URL - http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/wks2014/uploads/proposal_background_paper/2014-ssac-igf-briefing-paper1.pdf

Look forward to having those interested join us Wed. Sept 3rd at 11am in Workshop Room 07 (Rumeli Terrace / Halic)

regards,

Robert

--
Robert Guerra
Phone: +1 416-893-0377 
Twitter: twitter.com/netfreedom 
Email: rguerra at privaterra.org

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From rguerra at privaterra.org  Wed Aug 27 15:08:31 2014
From: rguerra at privaterra.org (Robert Guerra)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 15:08:31 -0400
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for IGF
 Closing Ceremony
In-Reply-To: <d87516996d0b4cd38120e763ec719540@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
References: <CE1414F0127E4948BEBABF0080B655F7@Toshiba> <CACTo+v_+c76SbvTkUrEuk=8SaNWT3uhCDwywv3Ysr_XOQsDKkg@mail.gmail.com> <959f7a9b422c47038a5dcfeb6b0316b8@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu> <30EB9EE1-9C3F-41FB-A037-6834F9F34BCB@gmail.com> <20140827080459.GA14311@hserus.net> <83395D44-7E21-4825-8072-37B8D99BDA3D@gmail.com> <20140827084254.GA16060@hserus.net> <d87516996d0b4cd38120e763ec719540@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <4F483211-EAA0-4385-9196-CD7FA5B49560@privaterra.org>

Milton,

Very well said. I wholeheartedly and without reservation trust your judgement on this.

regards

Robert



On Aug 27, 2014, at 12:26 PM, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu> wrote:

> A few words about the broader issues related to speaker selection:
> 
> In a group as large and diverse as this, any speaker who does not make any one of us just a little bit uncomfortable is probably not saying anything meaningful or worthwhile. This is one of the reasons IGF as a whole is perilously close to being broken; there are too many lowest common denominator filtering mechanisms that prevent anything challenging from being said or done, especially in main sessions.
> 
> The idea that any speaker would speak for all of civil society, much less every individual on this list,  is not just an impossible standard; to my mind it reflects a misunderstanding of what civil society is supposed to be and to do in these environments. We are the free and diverse elements of the governance institution; we are supposed to reflect new and challenging ideas, not to conform or be acceptable. There is not now and never will be a "peak association" that speaks for all of us as if we were a trade association of oil producers or farmers.
> 
> I have 15 years of history in fighting for an institutionalized presence for civil society in Internet governance institutions; I was there when IGF was created and played a role shaping its initial consultations. Throughout that process I've helped to provide representation, speaking platforms and even funding to many people I don't agree with wholly, but am willing to fight for their right to be heard. As a scholar and writer I've taken a number of well-considered positions and performed analyses of key issues. I suspect that the committee chose me for those reasons.
> 
> Drawing on that experience, and these perspectives, I will say what I believe needs to be said in the context of the IGF closing. 
> 
> Milton L Mueller
> Laura J and L. Douglas Meredith Professor 
> Syracuse University School of Information Studies
> http://faculty.ischool.syr.edu/mueller/ 
> 
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Suresh Ramasubramanian [mailto:suresh at hserus.net]
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 4:43 AM
>> To: Jean-Christophe Nothias
>> Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Ian Peter; Milton L Mueller; Mawaki
>> Chango
>> Subject: Re: [governance] Fwd: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for IGF
>> Closing Ceremony
>> 
>> Jean-Christophe Nothias [27/08/14 10:31 +0200]:
>>> "...opinions are, rightly, excluded..."
>>> That must reflect on your highly democratic conception of an open debate.
>>> To exclude rightly is usually part of the extreme right parties narrative.
>>> Weren't you a multistakeholder equal footing blabla model advocate?
>> 
>> Let us put it this way -
>> 
>> Personally, I am a centrist. I disagree with the extreme left just as much as I
>> do the extreme right.
>> 
>> In this case, I am a believer in a consensus, which in this case, forms a bell
>> curve from which the tail has, necessarily, to be excluded in order to get a
>> sense of what the vast majority of the group wants.
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


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From gurstein at gmail.com  Wed Aug 27 17:45:58 2014
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 14:45:58 -0700
Subject: [governance] Blogpost: Ooh-la-la, the French Get (Inter)Net
 Neutrality Right: Its All About the Platform Monopolies--Google, Amazon,
 Facebook, Twitter etc.
Message-ID: <10c501cfc240$4a640c80$df2c2580$@gmail.com>

http://gurstein.wordpress.com/2014/08/27/ooh-la-la-the-french-get-internet-neutrality-right-its-all-about-the-monopolies-google-amazon-facebook-twitter-etc/

 

http://tinyurl.com/qzlbzwc

 

M

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From ca at cafonso.ca  Wed Aug 27 19:18:26 2014
From: ca at cafonso.ca (Carlos A. Afonso)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 20:18:26 -0300
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for IGF
 Closing Ceremony
In-Reply-To: <959f7a9b422c47038a5dcfeb6b0316b8@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
References: <CE1414F0127E4948BEBABF0080B655F7@Toshiba> <CACTo+v_+c76SbvTkUrEuk=8SaNWT3uhCDwywv3Ysr_XOQsDKkg@mail.gmail.com> <959f7a9b422c47038a5dcfeb6b0316b8@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <53FE6742.6050401@cafonso.ca>

I am quite happy with the choices of Dr Burcu Kiliç and Dr Milton Müller
as speakers for civil society in the closing session.

fraternal regards

--c.a.

On 08/26/2014 11:56 PM, Milton L Mueller wrote:
> This is quite an honor, all the more so for being totally unexpected. I
> will wait to see if the Secretariat approves these nominees; if so, I
> promise to have some interesting things to say! Congratulations to Dr
> Burcu Kilic as well; I look forward to listening to her.
> 
>  
> 
> Milton L Mueller
> 
> Syracuse University School of Information Studies
> 
> http://faculty.ischool.syr.edu/mueller/
> 
> Internet Governance Project
> 
> http://internetgovernance.org
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> *From:*governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
> [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] *On Behalf Of *Mawaki Chango
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 26, 2014 5:49 AM
> *To:* Internet Governance
> *Subject:* [governance] Fwd: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for IGF
> Closing Ceremony
> 
>  
> 
> Dear all,
> 
>  
> 
> The Civil Society Coordination Group (CSCG) has forwarded the below two
> CS nominations to the IGF Secretariat for speaker spots at the Istanbul
> IGF's closing ceremony. As one of your two IGC co-Coordinators, I have
> been tasked to represent this Caucus within that Group. Therefore and
> for your information, I am hereby forwarding the letter addressed by the
> CSCG Chair to the IGF Secretariat to that effect. At this point in time
> and in absence of well-developed and established selection procedures,
> all the Group members have done the best we could to choose those we
> believe (for various reasons) to be the strongest candidates for this
> opportunity among all strong candidates. It is our intent and part of
> our post-Istanbul agenda to work on clearly developing such procedures.
> 
>  
> 
> For now, let us congratulate the nominees, Milton and Burcu.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
>  
> 
> Mawaki 
> 
> IGC Co-Coordinator and IGC Rep. to CS Coordination Group
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: *Ian Peter* <ian.peter at ianpeter.com <mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com>>
> Date: Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:21 AM
> Subject: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for IGF Closing Ceremony
> To: igf at unog.ch <mailto:igf at unog.ch>
> Cc: cs-coord at lists.bestbits.net <mailto:cs-coord at lists.bestbits.net>,
> Subi Chaturvedi <subichaturvedi at gmail.com <mailto:subichaturvedi at gmail.com>>
> 
> Dear Secretariat,
> 
> Subi Chaturvedi passed on to us your request for civil society
> nominations for speakers for this years IGF Closing Ceremony. Thank you
> for ensuring that civil society is involved in choosing its
> representatives to speak on this occasion.
> 
> This request was dealt with by the Internet Governance Civil Society Co
> ordination Group (CSCG). This peak group consists of representatives of
> the major civil society coalitions involved in Internet Governance
> issues, including Internet Governance Caucus, Best Bits, Association for
> Progressive Communications, Diplo Foundation, Just Net Coalition,
> Civicus, and Non Commercial Stakeholders Group of ICANN. The group,
> founded in 2013, has a primary role to ensure a co-ordinated civil
> society response and conduit when it comes to making civil society
> appointments to outside bodies. This was accepted and respected during
> the NetMundial (Brazil) process, and by the 1net community, and we will
> be pleased to also work with IGF in the future as regards civil society
> representation.
> 
> It was therefore appropriate for this body to consider the question of
> speakers for the IGF closing session as requested.
> 
> After calling for expressions of interest and nominations through the
> various networks, the CSCG discussed prospective speakers and makes the
> following recommendations.
> 
> Firstly, we believe that civil society must have two speakers. Just like
> governments or any other stakeholder group, we have more perspectives
> than can be handled with just one speaking slot,  and even with two
> speakers we feel we are under-represented.
> 
> With this in mind, and bearing also in mind the multistakeholder
> principle that stakeholders should choose their own representatives, we
> submit the following two names.
> 
>  SPEAKER NO 1
> 
> Our first speaker is Dr Burcu Kilic. Dr Kilic is a Turkish citizen who
> is an expert on legal, economic and political issues surrounding
> intellectual property law, policy, development and innovation. We are
> pleased to be able to nominate such a talented speaker from the host
> country.
> 
> SPEAKER NO 2
> 
> Our second speaker is Dr Milton Mueller. Dr Mueller is a Professor at
> Syracuse University. His research, teaching and public service for the
> last 15 years have been concentrated on the internet governance arena. 
> 
> Please let us know if you need any further information or contact details.
> 
>  
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Ian Peter
> 
> Independent Chair, on behalf of the Internet Governance Civil Society
> Coordination Group
> 
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list
> cs-coord at lists.bestbits.net <mailto:cs-coord at lists.bestbits.net>
> 
> For list archives, member roster, unsubscription and other functions visit:
>       http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/summit
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> 
>  
> 

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From jefsey at jefsey.com  Wed Aug 27 20:31:41 2014
From: jefsey at jefsey.com (Jefsey)
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 02:31:41 +0200
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for  IGF
 Closing Ceremony
In-Reply-To: <D848333D-DE22-4561-A3A7-376F06B41D1A@gmail.com>
References: <CE1414F0127E4948BEBABF0080B655F7@Toshiba>
 <CACTo+v_+c76SbvTkUrEuk=8SaNWT3uhCDwywv3Ysr_XOQsDKkg@mail.gmail.com>
 <959f7a9b422c47038a5dcfeb6b0316b8@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
 <30EB9EE1-9C3F-41FB-A037-6834F9F34BCB@gmail.com>
 <20140827080459.GA14311@hserus.net>
 <83395D44-7E21-4825-8072-37B8D99BDA3D@gmail.com>
 <20140827084254.GA16060@hserus.net>
 <d87516996d0b4cd38120e763ec719540@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
 <D848333D-DE22-4561-A3A7-376F06B41D1A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1XMnVv-0003Ru-HD@igcaucus.org>

At 19:41 27/08/2014, Jean-Christophe Nothias wrote:
>Milton,
>
>Why is it that you hardly make a difference between:
>- One hero  delivering a speech that would be a "rough-consensus" 
>summary, some sort of fusion of all ideas expressed by CS and
>- One decent honest broker trying to express what are the diverse 
>opinions, highlighting where he might see ground for possible 
>consensus/progress/convergence (don't need to be "rough" under a 
>democratic flag) ?

Dear Milton

I have 36 years of history in fighting for an institutionalized and 
architectural presence of the international network users. Sometimes 
with more, and most of the time, with less resources than you have. I 
also wish you the best for your speech, and I wish us the best  too 
if you gallantly adopt the most realistic and up to date JC's second option.

It is up to you to chose between making a nth speech and history.

Further on it will be too late, because the new technical and 
economic internet governances which "embrace a modern paradigm for 
standards where the economics of global markets, fueled by 
technological advancements, drive global deployment of standards 
regardless of their formal status" (RFC 6852), may not consider the 
"CS" anymore, except as a waste of time and T&L expenses.

Best

jfc


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From suresh at hserus.net  Wed Aug 27 20:55:30 2014
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 06:25:30 +0530
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for IGF
 Closing Ceremony
In-Reply-To: <4F483211-EAA0-4385-9196-CD7FA5B49560@privaterra.org>
References: <CE1414F0127E4948BEBABF0080B655F7@Toshiba> <CACTo+v_+c76SbvTkUrEuk=8SaNWT3uhCDwywv3Ysr_XOQsDKkg@mail.gmail.com> <959f7a9b422c47038a5dcfeb6b0316b8@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu> <30EB9EE1-9C3F-41FB-A037-6834F9F34BCB@gmail.com> <20140827080459.GA14311@hserus.net> <83395D44-7E21-4825-8072-37B8D99BDA3D@gmail.com> <20140827084254.GA16060@hserus.net> <d87516996d0b4cd38120e763ec719540@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu> <4F483211-EAA0-4385-9196-CD7FA5B49560@privaterra.org>
Message-ID: <66851E65-88C5-44D1-889F-A361411A77AB@hserus.net>

agree, sort of - but Milton, having represented my day job in industry associations before, I can assure you that consensus plays just as large a role there. 

There is a lot more cohesion though, mostly from a perception that everybody is on the same side and with shared interests, which this caucus sorely lacks from what I can see.

So yes, please do present your own positions. I find myself agreeing with them more often than not, these days :)

--srs (iPad)

> On 28-Aug-2014, at 0:38, Robert Guerra <rguerra at privaterra.org> wrote:
> 
> Milton,
> 
> Very well said. I wholeheartedly and without reservation trust your judgement on this.
> 
> regards
> 
> Robert
> 
> 
> 
>> On Aug 27, 2014, at 12:26 PM, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> A few words about the broader issues related to speaker selection:
>> 
>> In a group as large and diverse as this, any speaker who does not make any one of us just a little bit uncomfortable is probably not saying anything meaningful or worthwhile. This is one of the reasons IGF as a whole is perilously close to being broken; there are too many lowest common denominator filtering mechanisms that prevent anything challenging from being said or done, especially in main sessions.
>> 
>> The idea that any speaker would speak for all of civil society, much less every individual on this list,  is not just an impossible standard; to my mind it reflects a misunderstanding of what civil society is supposed to be and to do in these environments. We are the free and diverse elements of the governance institution; we are supposed to reflect new and challenging ideas, not to conform or be acceptable. There is not now and never will be a "peak association" that speaks for all of us as if we were a trade association of oil producers or farmers.
>> 
>> I have 15 years of history in fighting for an institutionalized presence for civil society in Internet governance institutions; I was there when IGF was created and played a role shaping its initial consultations. Throughout that process I've helped to provide representation, speaking platforms and even funding to many people I don't agree with wholly, but am willing to fight for their right to be heard. As a scholar and writer I've taken a number of well-considered positions and performed analyses of key issues. I suspect that the committee chose me for those reasons.
>> 
>> Drawing on that experience, and these perspectives, I will say what I believe needs to be said in the context of the IGF closing. 
>> 
>> Milton L Mueller
>> Laura J and L. Douglas Meredith Professor 
>> Syracuse University School of Information Studies
>> http://faculty.ischool.syr.edu/mueller/ 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Suresh Ramasubramanian [mailto:suresh at hserus.net]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 4:43 AM
>>> To: Jean-Christophe Nothias
>>> Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Ian Peter; Milton L Mueller; Mawaki
>>> Chango
>>> Subject: Re: [governance] Fwd: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for IGF
>>> Closing Ceremony
>>> 
>>> Jean-Christophe Nothias [27/08/14 10:31 +0200]:
>>>> "...opinions are, rightly, excluded..."
>>>> That must reflect on your highly democratic conception of an open debate.
>>>> To exclude rightly is usually part of the extreme right parties narrative.
>>>> Weren't you a multistakeholder equal footing blabla model advocate?
>>> 
>>> Let us put it this way -
>>> 
>>> Personally, I am a centrist. I disagree with the extreme left just as much as I
>>> do the extreme right.
>>> 
>>> In this case, I am a believer in a consensus, which in this case, forms a bell
>>> curve from which the tail has, necessarily, to be excluded in order to get a
>>> sense of what the vast majority of the group wants.
>> 
>> 
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> 
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> 
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
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From hindenburgo at gmail.com  Wed Aug 27 21:02:14 2014
From: hindenburgo at gmail.com (Hindenburgo Pires)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 22:02:14 -0300
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for IGF
 Closing Ceremony
In-Reply-To: <66851E65-88C5-44D1-889F-A361411A77AB@hserus.net>
References: <CE1414F0127E4948BEBABF0080B655F7@Toshiba>
	<CACTo+v_+c76SbvTkUrEuk=8SaNWT3uhCDwywv3Ysr_XOQsDKkg@mail.gmail.com>
	<959f7a9b422c47038a5dcfeb6b0316b8@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
	<30EB9EE1-9C3F-41FB-A037-6834F9F34BCB@gmail.com>
	<20140827080459.GA14311@hserus.net>
	<83395D44-7E21-4825-8072-37B8D99BDA3D@gmail.com>
	<20140827084254.GA16060@hserus.net>
	<d87516996d0b4cd38120e763ec719540@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
	<4F483211-EAA0-4385-9196-CD7FA5B49560@privaterra.org>
	<66851E65-88C5-44D1-889F-A361411A77AB@hserus.net>
Message-ID: <CAPM93kWBtqHd3rA_iUMDkS6uDw2afSQ1d_M+MbX4PHSPCWUFHQ@mail.gmail.com>

I agree with Jean-Christophe Nothias! +1
It's time to change, please no more multistakeholder blabla!
Give a chance an other multivocality.


2014-08-27 21:55 GMT-03:00 Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net>:

> agree, sort of - but Milton, having represented my day job in industry
> associations before, I can assure you that consensus plays just as large a
> role there.
>
> There is a lot more cohesion though, mostly from a perception that
> everybody is on the same side and with shared interests, which this caucus
> sorely lacks from what I can see.
>
> So yes, please do present your own positions. I find myself agreeing with
> them more often than not, these days :)
>
> --srs (iPad)
>
> > On 28-Aug-2014, at 0:38, Robert Guerra <rguerra at privaterra.org> wrote:
> >
> > Milton,
> >
> > Very well said. I wholeheartedly and without reservation trust your
> judgement on this.
> >
> > regards
> >
> > Robert
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Aug 27, 2014, at 12:26 PM, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >> A few words about the broader issues related to speaker selection:
> >>
> >> In a group as large and diverse as this, any speaker who does not make
> any one of us just a little bit uncomfortable is probably not saying
> anything meaningful or worthwhile. This is one of the reasons IGF as a
> whole is perilously close to being broken; there are too many lowest common
> denominator filtering mechanisms that prevent anything challenging from
> being said or done, especially in main sessions.
> >>
> >> The idea that any speaker would speak for all of civil society, much
> less every individual on this list,  is not just an impossible standard; to
> my mind it reflects a misunderstanding of what civil society is supposed to
> be and to do in these environments. We are the free and diverse elements of
> the governance institution; we are supposed to reflect new and challenging
> ideas, not to conform or be acceptable. There is not now and never will be
> a "peak association" that speaks for all of us as if we were a trade
> association of oil producers or farmers.
> >>
> >> I have 15 years of history in fighting for an institutionalized
> presence for civil society in Internet governance institutions; I was there
> when IGF was created and played a role shaping its initial consultations.
> Throughout that process I've helped to provide representation, speaking
> platforms and even funding to many people I don't agree with wholly, but am
> willing to fight for their right to be heard. As a scholar and writer I've
> taken a number of well-considered positions and performed analyses of key
> issues. I suspect that the committee chose me for those reasons.
> >>
> >> Drawing on that experience, and these perspectives, I will say what I
> believe needs to be said in the context of the IGF closing.
> >>
> >> Milton L Mueller
> >> Laura J and L. Douglas Meredith Professor
> >> Syracuse University School of Information Studies
> >> http://faculty.ischool.syr.edu/mueller/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Suresh Ramasubramanian [mailto:suresh at hserus.net]
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 4:43 AM
> >>> To: Jean-Christophe Nothias
> >>> Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Ian Peter; Milton L Mueller; Mawaki
> >>> Chango
> >>> Subject: Re: [governance] Fwd: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for
> IGF
> >>> Closing Ceremony
> >>>
> >>> Jean-Christophe Nothias [27/08/14 10:31 +0200]:
> >>>> "...opinions are, rightly, excluded..."
> >>>> That must reflect on your highly democratic conception of an open
> debate.
> >>>> To exclude rightly is usually part of the extreme right parties
> narrative.
> >>>> Weren't you a multistakeholder equal footing blabla model advocate?
> >>>
> >>> Let us put it this way -
> >>>
> >>> Personally, I am a centrist. I disagree with the extreme left just as
> much as I
> >>> do the extreme right.
> >>>
> >>> In this case, I am a believer in a consensus, which in this case,
> forms a bell
> >>> curve from which the tail has, necessarily, to be excluded in order to
> get a
> >>> sense of what the vast majority of the group wants.
> >>
> >>
> >> ____________________________________________________________
> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> >> To be removed from the list, visit:
> >>    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >>
> >> For all other list information and functions, see:
> >>    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >>
> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> > To be removed from the list, visit:
> >     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >
> > For all other list information and functions, see:
> >     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >
> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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> To be removed from the list, visit:
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>


-- 
Hindenburgo Francisco Pires

Universidade do Estado do Rio de Janeiro
Departamento de Geografia Humana
*Sítio-web: http://www.cibergeo.org <http://www.cibergeo.org>*
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From chlebrum at gmail.com  Thu Aug 28 01:42:49 2014
From: chlebrum at gmail.com (Chantal Lebrument)
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 08:42:49 +0300
Subject: [governance] Re: [Members] Blogpost: Ooh-la-la, the French Get
 (Inter)Net Neutrality Right: Its All About the Platform
 Monopolies--Google, Amazon, Facebook, Twitter etc.
In-Reply-To: <10c501cfc240$4a640c80$df2c2580$@gmail.com>
References: <10c501cfc240$4a640c80$df2c2580$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41526302-6A55-4985-8922-F9AE0C8C8041@gmail.com>

C'est tout à fait mon avis!
Bravo Mike

Envoyé de mon iPhone

> Le 28 août 2014 à 00:45, "michael gurstein" <gurstein at gmail.com> a écrit :
> 
> http://gurstein.wordpress.com/2014/08/27/ooh-la-la-the-french-get-internet-neutrality-right-its-all-about-the-monopolies-google-amazon-facebook-twitter-etc/
>  
> http://tinyurl.com/qzlbzwc
>  
> M
> _______________________________________________
> Members mailing list
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From subi.igp at gmail.com  Thu Aug 28 02:21:06 2014
From: subi.igp at gmail.com (Subi Chaturvedi)
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 11:51:06 +0530
Subject: [governance] Re: [bestbits] Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
In-Reply-To: <D023912E.BB9F%mgodwin@internews.org>
References: <CANRKRpLVWhrQXVgcD=WQkyZhMwJD8=SuEWwibdEqW4sfxQWGmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANRKRpKLHwYjr48GRC7TQgB6ayUFq-DpVCMDKt2-rzO4e79sOQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<741502C1-36BA-4B07-AD5D-774A94079597@gmail.com>
	<D023912E.BB9F%mgodwin@internews.org>
Message-ID: <CAFfuWVmRunhuTUJ2DgE3LH1akANQAm6rPJBbK0STgJxHbTQG8w@mail.gmail.com>

Mike, just the confirmation of participation will suffice issued by the IGF
Secretariat.

The embassy here was quite efficient and the turn around time was less than
a day.

Safe travels all.

Regards

Subi Chaturvedi
On 27 Aug 2014 23:15, "Mike Godwin (mgodwin at INTERNEWS.ORG)" <
mgodwin at internews.org> wrote:
>
>
> Sorry to come back to this so late, but preparations have been a
distraction.
>
> I have confirmation of my attendance at IGF, of course, but I’m not sure
what is being referred to with regard to the “visa support letter.” Since I
am planning to visit the embassy in Washington, DC, tomorrow to ask for the
courtesy visa, can someone here advise?
>
>
> —Mike
>
>
> --
>
> Mike Godwin | Senior Legal Advisor, Global Internet Policy Project
>
> mnemonic at gmail.com| Mobile 415-793-4446
>
> Skype mnemonic1026
>
> Address 1640 Rhode Island Ave., 7th Floor,  Washington, DC 20036 USA
>
>
>
> INTERNEWS | Local Voices. Global Change.
>
> www.internews.org | @internews | facebook.com/internews
>
>
> From: William Drake <wjdrake at gmail.com>
> Reply-To: William Drake <wjdrake at gmail.com>
> Date: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 at 11:55 PM
> To: Subi Chaturvedi <subi.igp at gmail.com>
> Cc: Best Bits <bestbits at lists.bestbits.net>, Governance <
governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
> Subject: Re: [bestbits] Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
>
> Hi
>
> Yes, no change from when I reported this last week, at missions/embassies
only, alas not upon arrival or online.
>
> Bill
>
> On Aug 12, 2014, at 6:11 PM, Subi Chaturvedi <subi.igp at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Heads up on the IGF 2014 participation.  Government of Turkey has
confirmed courtesy visas for all.
>>
>> They will however need you to apply at your local Turkish Embassy/
Mission in person.
>>
>> The letter confirming your paticipation at the IGF and the visa support
letter will entitle you to the visa application fee waiver ( Courtesy Visa).
>>
>> Hope to see you all in large numbers at the IGF. Thanks Bill for raising
the issue.Glad to see that this story has a happy ending.
>>
>> In addition to the Visa we'd also put out a call to raise funding
support for civil society and academia participants. Most major
organisations are past their application deadlines. But this is a shout out
to all CS networks and donors to pool resources and assist others. Large
universities and grant making bodies included, through travel
grants/fellowships. Even if you can do part funding it will amplify CS
participation.
>>
>> Given the fact that we are close to the #post2015 agenda we must be
present physically in large nos. Though we have remote participation,
there's nothing like being there.
>>
>> This year there's also a designated Open space which allows for greater
engagement and informal spontaneous discussions.
>>
>> I'd also like to see greater synergies between different networks in
amplyfying support for each other and becoming enablers. ( Just my Santa
wishlist).
>>
>> If possible donors could volunteer then co-cos could maybe match the
receipients organically with donors off-list. I am aware of many worthy
participants/ experts and new comers who would add tremendous value by
being there. Let's try and do all that we can to facilitate their
presence-Our presence at the IGF.
>>
>> Warmest
>>
>> Subi Chaturvedi
>>
>> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> > From: "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr>
>> > Date: 12 Aug 2014 11:49
>> > Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
>> > To: "Subi Chaturvedi" <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
>> > Cc: "visa" <visa at igf2014.org.tr>, "Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org" <
Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>, "Aysel KANDEMİR" <akandemir at btk.gov.tr>
>> >
>> > > Dear Ms. Chaturvedi,
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Dear Sir/Madam,
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > All IGF participants will be given a visa without fee by Turkish
missions abroad when they submit the “IGF Registration Confirmation Letter”
including civil society, academia and business participants.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Looking forward to see you all in Istanbul.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Best regards,
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Samet Tuncer
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > From: Subi Chaturvedi [mailto:subichaturvedi at gmail.com]
>> > > Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 5:35 PM
>> > > To: Samet TUNCER
>> > > Cc: visa;Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org; Aysel KANDEMİR
>> > > Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Dear Samet,
>> > >
>> > > Many thanks for this wonderful gesture. We respect your compulsions
and remain immensely grateful to you, our wonderful and generous hosts.
>> > >
>> > > The solution is acceptable and welcome. I do have a question is this
valid for all the IGF participants?
>> > >
>> > > This would be great for all the civil society, academia and small
business participatants who come and paticipate in the IGF against all odds
and enrich the discourse.
>> > >
>> > > I thank you again for playing our gracious hosts.
>> > >
>> > > Looking forward to the best ever IGF.
>> > >
>> > > Warmest
>> > >
>> > > Subi
>> > >
>> > > On 11 Aug 2014 19:06, "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > Dear Sir/Madam,
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > As a result of our correspondence with Turkish Ministry of Foreign
Affairs, it seems impossible to reimburse the costs of visa application fee
at the IGF venue due to internal rules of the Ministry. In this respect, we
encourage you to apply Turkish embassies and consulates directly for visa.
IGF Registration Confirmation Letter will be enough to get visa without fee
according to a communique issued by Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs
dated 21/07/2014 Ref No. KVUD/6749221.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Regards,
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Samet
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >>
>> > > >> From: Subi Chaturvedi <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
>> > > >> Date: 9 Ağustos 2014 09:09:40 GMT+3
>> > > >> To: Noël Yao <noelyao2002 at yahoo.fr>, CAVUSOGLU Ahmet Erdinç <
acavusoglu at btk.gov.tr>
>> > > >> Cc: "amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr" <amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr>, IGF <
IGF at unog.ch>, MAG-public <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>
>> > > >> Subject: Re: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Dear All,
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Reiterating the request for courtesy visa's for IGF participants.
As has been the previous practice. The previous hosts have been able to
successfully set up kiosks at the IGF venues and reimburse participants the
cost towards the visa application fee. It is a positive gesture and
deserves all attempts at prolongation and continuity.
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Regards
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Subi
>> > > >>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     bestbits at lists.bestbits.net.
>> To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:
>>     http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits
>
>
>
>
> Click here to report this email as spam.
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From pouzin at well.com  Thu Aug 28 03:57:43 2014
From: pouzin at well.com (Louis Pouzin (well))
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 09:57:43 +0200
Subject: [governance] Re: [Members] Blogpost: Ooh-la-la, the French Get
 (Inter)Net Neutrality Right: Its All About the Platform
 Monopolies--Google, Amazon, Facebook, Twitter etc.
In-Reply-To: <10c501cfc240$4a640c80$df2c2580$@gmail.com>
References: <10c501cfc240$4a640c80$df2c2580$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+EjHYrAofk=6phF68uHWgeXmB01m_7bx42q6hXRKntOAcWBNQ@mail.gmail.com>

Indeed the title of this report is completely misleading. It's all
about the U turn of the USG politics. In the past abusive market
dominance was detrimental to the public, and the likes of Standard
Oil, ITT, ATT, were split in parts. Now the USG favors its giant
monopolies that both feed the NSA with illegally collected personal
data and economic spying. Objective, colonize other countries, in view
of US world dominance. China counteracted 10 years ago.

Louis
- - -

On 8/27/14, michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:
> http://gurstein.wordpress.com/2014/08/27/ooh-la-la-the-french-get-internet-neutrality-right-its-all-about-the-monopolies-google-amazon-facebook-twitter-etc/
>
> http://tinyurl.com/qzlbzwc
>
> M

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From anriette at apc.org  Thu Aug 28 04:13:12 2014
From: anriette at apc.org (Anriette Esterhuysen)
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 10:13:12 +0200
Subject: [governance] Civil Society Speakers for IGF Closing Ceremony
In-Reply-To: <53FE6742.6050401@cafonso.ca>
References: <CE1414F0127E4948BEBABF0080B655F7@Toshiba> <CACTo+v_+c76SbvTkUrEuk=8SaNWT3uhCDwywv3Ysr_XOQsDKkg@mail.gmail.com> <959f7a9b422c47038a5dcfeb6b0316b8@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu> <53FE6742.6050401@cafonso.ca>
Message-ID: <53FEE498.4050906@apc.org>

Dear C

Will we be able to have two speakers, or will the Secretariat select one
of these two?

Anriette


On 28/08/2014 01:18, Carlos A. Afonso wrote:
> I am quite happy with the choices of Dr Burcu Kiliç and Dr Milton Müller
> as speakers for civil society in the closing session.
>
> fraternal regards
>
> --c.a.
>
> On 08/26/2014 11:56 PM, Milton L Mueller wrote:
>> This is quite an honor, all the more so for being totally unexpected. I
>> will wait to see if the Secretariat approves these nominees; if so, I
>> promise to have some interesting things to say! Congratulations to Dr
>> Burcu Kilic as well; I look forward to listening to her.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Milton L Mueller
>>
>> Syracuse University School of Information Studies
>>
>> http://faculty.ischool.syr.edu/mueller/
>>
>> Internet Governance Project
>>
>> http://internetgovernance.org
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>> *From:*governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
>> [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] *On Behalf Of *Mawaki Chango
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 26, 2014 5:49 AM
>> *To:* Internet Governance
>> *Subject:* [governance] Fwd: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for IGF
>> Closing Ceremony
>>
>>  
>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>>  
>>
>> The Civil Society Coordination Group (CSCG) has forwarded the below two
>> CS nominations to the IGF Secretariat for speaker spots at the Istanbul
>> IGF's closing ceremony. As one of your two IGC co-Coordinators, I have
>> been tasked to represent this Caucus within that Group. Therefore and
>> for your information, I am hereby forwarding the letter addressed by the
>> CSCG Chair to the IGF Secretariat to that effect. At this point in time
>> and in absence of well-developed and established selection procedures,
>> all the Group members have done the best we could to choose those we
>> believe (for various reasons) to be the strongest candidates for this
>> opportunity among all strong candidates. It is our intent and part of
>> our post-Istanbul agenda to work on clearly developing such procedures.
>>
>>  
>>
>> For now, let us congratulate the nominees, Milton and Burcu.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>>  
>>
>> Mawaki 
>>
>> IGC Co-Coordinator and IGC Rep. to CS Coordination Group
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: *Ian Peter* <ian.peter at ianpeter.com <mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com>>
>> Date: Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:21 AM
>> Subject: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for IGF Closing Ceremony
>> To: igf at unog.ch <mailto:igf at unog.ch>
>> Cc: cs-coord at lists.bestbits.net <mailto:cs-coord at lists.bestbits.net>,
>> Subi Chaturvedi <subichaturvedi at gmail.com <mailto:subichaturvedi at gmail.com>>
>>
>> Dear Secretariat,
>>
>> Subi Chaturvedi passed on to us your request for civil society
>> nominations for speakers for this years IGF Closing Ceremony. Thank you
>> for ensuring that civil society is involved in choosing its
>> representatives to speak on this occasion.
>>
>> This request was dealt with by the Internet Governance Civil Society Co
>> ordination Group (CSCG). This peak group consists of representatives of
>> the major civil society coalitions involved in Internet Governance
>> issues, including Internet Governance Caucus, Best Bits, Association for
>> Progressive Communications, Diplo Foundation, Just Net Coalition,
>> Civicus, and Non Commercial Stakeholders Group of ICANN. The group,
>> founded in 2013, has a primary role to ensure a co-ordinated civil
>> society response and conduit when it comes to making civil society
>> appointments to outside bodies. This was accepted and respected during
>> the NetMundial (Brazil) process, and by the 1net community, and we will
>> be pleased to also work with IGF in the future as regards civil society
>> representation.
>>
>> It was therefore appropriate for this body to consider the question of
>> speakers for the IGF closing session as requested.
>>
>> After calling for expressions of interest and nominations through the
>> various networks, the CSCG discussed prospective speakers and makes the
>> following recommendations.
>>
>> Firstly, we believe that civil society must have two speakers. Just like
>> governments or any other stakeholder group, we have more perspectives
>> than can be handled with just one speaking slot,  and even with two
>> speakers we feel we are under-represented.
>>
>> With this in mind, and bearing also in mind the multistakeholder
>> principle that stakeholders should choose their own representatives, we
>> submit the following two names.
>>
>>  SPEAKER NO 1
>>
>> Our first speaker is Dr Burcu Kilic. Dr Kilic is a Turkish citizen who
>> is an expert on legal, economic and political issues surrounding
>> intellectual property law, policy, development and innovation. We are
>> pleased to be able to nominate such a talented speaker from the host
>> country.
>>
>> SPEAKER NO 2
>>
>> Our second speaker is Dr Milton Mueller. Dr Mueller is a Professor at
>> Syracuse University. His research, teaching and public service for the
>> last 15 years have been concentrated on the internet governance arena. 
>>
>> Please let us know if you need any further information or contact details.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>> Ian Peter
>>
>> Independent Chair, on behalf of the Internet Governance Civil Society
>> Coordination Group
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list
>> cs-coord at lists.bestbits.net <mailto:cs-coord at lists.bestbits.net>
>>
>> For list archives, member roster, unsubscription and other functions visit:
>>       http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/summit
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>  
>>

-- 
`````````````````````````````````
anriette esterhuysen
executive director
association for progressive communications
po box 29755, melville, 2109, south africa
anriette at apc.org
www.apc.org

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From jeanchristophe.nothias at gmail.com  Thu Aug 28 04:40:41 2014
From: jeanchristophe.nothias at gmail.com (Jean-Christophe Nothias)
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 10:40:41 +0200
Subject: [governance] Civil Society Speakers for IGF Closing Ceremony
In-Reply-To: <53FEE498.4050906@apc.org>
References: <CE1414F0127E4948BEBABF0080B655F7@Toshiba> <CACTo+v_+c76SbvTkUrEuk=8SaNWT3uhCDwywv3Ysr_XOQsDKkg@mail.gmail.com> <959f7a9b422c47038a5dcfeb6b0316b8@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu> <53FE6742.6050401@cafonso.ca> <53FEE498.4050906@apc.org>
Message-ID: <AB5AA0AD-24F3-4488-81DF-01FB56EDB15C@gmail.com>

Dear C,

Will we be able to have two speakers, or will the Secretariat select one of these two?

JC

Nota Bene : I presume Dear Anriette that you might already have some knowledge about the fact that the final cut for the closing will be one speaker. I have no idea why "Dear C" would know better than others, but I am happy to rely upon his insights. Then Milton might already be prepared to give to Dr Kilic some of what he believes need to be said. I am following from a distance all that amusing masquerade.
No offense Anriette! Just having fun when I take a look at the IG kinder garden.


Le 28 août 2014 à 10:13, Anriette Esterhuysen a écrit :

> Dear C
> 
> Will we be able to have two speakers, or will the Secretariat select one of these two?
> 
> Anriette
> 
> 
> On 28/08/2014 01:18, Carlos A. Afonso wrote:
>> I am quite happy with the choices of Dr Burcu Kiliç and Dr Milton Müller
>> as speakers for civil society in the closing session.
>> 
>> fraternal regards
>> 
>> --c.a.
>> 
>> On 08/26/2014 11:56 PM, Milton L Mueller wrote:
>>> This is quite an honor, all the more so for being totally unexpected. I
>>> will wait to see if the Secretariat approves these nominees; if so, I
>>> promise to have some interesting things to say! Congratulations to Dr
>>> Burcu Kilic as well; I look forward to listening to her.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Milton L Mueller
>>> 
>>> Syracuse University School of Information Studies
>>> 
>>> http://faculty.ischool.syr.edu/mueller/
>>> 
>>> Internet Governance Project
>>> 
>>> http://internetgovernance.org
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> *From:*governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] *On Behalf Of *Mawaki Chango
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 26, 2014 5:49 AM
>>> *To:* Internet Governance
>>> *Subject:* [governance] Fwd: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for IGF
>>> Closing Ceremony
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Dear all,
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> The Civil Society Coordination Group (CSCG) has forwarded the below two
>>> CS nominations to the IGF Secretariat for speaker spots at the Istanbul
>>> IGF's closing ceremony. As one of your two IGC co-Coordinators, I have
>>> been tasked to represent this Caucus within that Group. Therefore and
>>> for your information, I am hereby forwarding the letter addressed by the
>>> CSCG Chair to the IGF Secretariat to that effect. At this point in time
>>> and in absence of well-developed and established selection procedures,
>>> all the Group members have done the best we could to choose those we
>>> believe (for various reasons) to be the strongest candidates for this
>>> opportunity among all strong candidates. It is our intent and part of
>>> our post-Istanbul agenda to work on clearly developing such procedures.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> For now, let us congratulate the nominees, Milton and Burcu.
>>> 
>>> Best regards,
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Mawaki 
>>> 
>>> IGC Co-Coordinator and IGC Rep. to CS Coordination Group
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: *Ian Peter* <ian.peter at ianpeter.com <mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com>>
>>> Date: Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:21 AM
>>> Subject: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for IGF Closing Ceremony
>>> To: igf at unog.ch <mailto:igf at unog.ch>
>>> Cc: cs-coord at lists.bestbits.net <mailto:cs-coord at lists.bestbits.net>,
>>> Subi Chaturvedi <subichaturvedi at gmail.com <mailto:subichaturvedi at gmail.com>>
>>> 
>>> Dear Secretariat,
>>> 
>>> Subi Chaturvedi passed on to us your request for civil society
>>> nominations for speakers for this years IGF Closing Ceremony. Thank you
>>> for ensuring that civil society is involved in choosing its
>>> representatives to speak on this occasion.
>>> 
>>> This request was dealt with by the Internet Governance Civil Society Co
>>> ordination Group (CSCG). This peak group consists of representatives of
>>> the major civil society coalitions involved in Internet Governance
>>> issues, including Internet Governance Caucus, Best Bits, Association for
>>> Progressive Communications, Diplo Foundation, Just Net Coalition,
>>> Civicus, and Non Commercial Stakeholders Group of ICANN. The group,
>>> founded in 2013, has a primary role to ensure a co-ordinated civil
>>> society response and conduit when it comes to making civil society
>>> appointments to outside bodies. This was accepted and respected during
>>> the NetMundial (Brazil) process, and by the 1net community, and we will
>>> be pleased to also work with IGF in the future as regards civil society
>>> representation.
>>> 
>>> It was therefore appropriate for this body to consider the question of
>>> speakers for the IGF closing session as requested.
>>> 
>>> After calling for expressions of interest and nominations through the
>>> various networks, the CSCG discussed prospective speakers and makes the
>>> following recommendations.
>>> 
>>> Firstly, we believe that civil society must have two speakers. Just like
>>> governments or any other stakeholder group, we have more perspectives
>>> than can be handled with just one speaking slot,  and even with two
>>> speakers we feel we are under-represented.
>>> 
>>> With this in mind, and bearing also in mind the multistakeholder
>>> principle that stakeholders should choose their own representatives, we
>>> submit the following two names.
>>> 
>>>  SPEAKER NO 1
>>> 
>>> Our first speaker is Dr Burcu Kilic. Dr Kilic is a Turkish citizen who
>>> is an expert on legal, economic and political issues surrounding
>>> intellectual property law, policy, development and innovation. We are
>>> pleased to be able to nominate such a talented speaker from the host
>>> country.
>>> 
>>> SPEAKER NO 2
>>> 
>>> Our second speaker is Dr Milton Mueller. Dr Mueller is a Professor at
>>> Syracuse University. His research, teaching and public service for the
>>> last 15 years have been concentrated on the internet governance arena. 
>>> 
>>> Please let us know if you need any further information or contact details.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Sincerely,
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Ian Peter
>>> 
>>> Independent Chair, on behalf of the Internet Governance Civil Society
>>> Coordination Group
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list
>>> cs-coord at lists.bestbits.net <mailto:cs-coord at lists.bestbits.net>
>>> 
>>> For list archives, member roster, unsubscription and other functions visit:
>>>       http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/summit
>>> 
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
> 
> -- 
> `````````````````````````````````
> anriette esterhuysen
> executive director
> association for progressive communications
> po box 29755, melville, 2109, south africa
> anriette at apc.org
> www.apc.org
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

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From qshatti at gmail.com  Thu Aug 28 05:05:39 2014
From: qshatti at gmail.com (Qusai AlShatti)
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 12:05:39 +0300
Subject: [governance] Fwd: RE: Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
In-Reply-To: <CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANRKRpLVWhrQXVgcD=WQkyZhMwJD8=SuEWwibdEqW4sfxQWGmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANRKRpKLHwYjr48GRC7TQgB6ayUFq-DpVCMDKt2-rzO4e79sOQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAC2SYrNZo2idnCry=eyoL1mGrk=aorX0FETo-VmHAJuP3ro7qQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear All:
By the way I just tried applying through the e-visa website and received my
electronic visa by e-mail. Have our dear colleagues from CS and Academia
tried the e-visa.

Best Regards,

Qusai AlShatti


On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 12:11 PM, Subi Chaturvedi <subi.igp at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> Heads up on the IGF 2014 participation.  Government of Turkey has
> confirmed courtesy visas for all.
>
> They will however need you to apply at your local Turkish Embassy/ Mission
> in person.
>
> The letter confirming your paticipation at the IGF and the visa support
> letter will entitle you to the visa application fee waiver ( Courtesy Visa).
>
> Hope to see you all in large numbers at the IGF. Thanks Bill for raising
> the issue.Glad to see that this story has a happy ending.
>
> In addition to the Visa we'd also put out a call to raise funding support
> for civil society and academia participants. Most major organisations are
> past their application deadlines. But this is a shout out to all CS
> networks and donors to pool resources and assist others. Large universities
> and grant making bodies included, through travel grants/fellowships. Even
> if you can do part funding it will amplify CS participation.
>
> Given the fact that we are close to the #post2015 agenda we must be
> present physically in large nos. Though we have remote participation,
> there's nothing like being there.
>
> This year there's also a designated Open space which allows for greater
> engagement and informal spontaneous discussions.
>
> I'd also like to see greater synergies between different networks in
> amplyfying support for each other and becoming enablers. ( Just my Santa
> wishlist).
>
> If possible donors could volunteer then co-cos could maybe match the
> receipients organically with donors off-list. I am aware of many worthy
> participants/ experts and new comers who would add tremendous value by
> being there. Let's try and do all that we can to facilitate their
> presence-Our presence at the IGF.
>
> Warmest
>
> Subi Chaturvedi
>
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr>
> > Date: 12 Aug 2014 11:49
> > Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
> > To: "Subi Chaturvedi" <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
> > Cc: "visa" <visa at igf2014.org.tr>, "Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org" <
> Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>, "Aysel KANDEMİR" <akandemir at btk.gov.tr>
> >
> > > Dear Ms. Chaturvedi,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Sir/Madam,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > All IGF participants will be given a visa without fee by Turkish
> missions abroad when they submit the “IGF Registration Confirmation Letter”
> including civil society, academia and business participants.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Looking forward to see you all in Istanbul.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Samet Tuncer
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Subi Chaturvedi [mailto:subichaturvedi at gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 5:35 PM
> > > To: Samet TUNCER
> > > Cc: visa;Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org; Aysel KANDEMİR
> > > Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Samet,
> > >
> > > Many thanks for this wonderful gesture. We respect your compulsions
> and remain immensely grateful to you, our wonderful and generous hosts.
> > >
> > > The solution is acceptable and welcome. I do have a question is this
> valid for all the IGF participants?
> > >
> > > This would be great for all the civil society, academia and small
> business participatants who come and paticipate in the IGF against all odds
> and enrich the discourse.
> > >
> > > I thank you again for playing our gracious hosts.
> > >
> > > Looking forward to the best ever IGF.
> > >
> > > Warmest
> > >
> > > Subi
> > >
> > > On 11 Aug 2014 19:06, "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dear Sir/Madam,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > As a result of our correspondence with Turkish Ministry of Foreign
> Affairs, it seems impossible to reimburse the costs of visa application fee
> at the IGF venue due to internal rules of the Ministry. In this respect, we
> encourage you to apply Turkish embassies and consulates directly for visa.
> IGF Registration Confirmation Letter will be enough to get visa without fee
> according to a communique issued by Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs
> dated 21/07/2014 Ref No. KVUD/6749221.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Samet
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >> From: Subi Chaturvedi <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
> > > >> Date: 9 Ağustos 2014 09:09:40 GMT+3
> > > >> To: Noël Yao <noelyao2002 at yahoo.fr>, CAVUSOGLU Ahmet Erdinç <
> acavusoglu at btk.gov.tr>
> > > >> Cc: "amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr" <amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr>, IGF <
> IGF at unog.ch>, MAG-public <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>
> > > >> Subject: Re: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
> > > >>
> > > >> Dear All,
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Reiterating the request for courtesy visa's for IGF participants.
> As has been the previous practice. The previous hosts have been able to
> successfully set up kiosks at the IGF venues and reimburse participants the
> cost towards the visa application fee. It is a positive gesture and
> deserves all attempts at prolongation and continuity.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Regards
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Subi
> > > >>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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From lucabelli at hotmail.it  Thu Aug 28 05:09:17 2014
From: lucabelli at hotmail.it (Luca Belli)
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 11:09:17 +0200
Subject: [governance] Network Neutrality: a Roadmap for Infrastructure
 Enhancement
Message-ID: <DUB122-W471EAFA6443FA5720CC740C6DA0@phx.gbl>




Dear all, 



I would like to invite you to participate – in situ
or remotely – to IGF workshop 172: Network Neutrality: a Roadmap for Infrastructure
Enhancement  that will be held on 3 September from 11:00 to 12:30 (see: http://sched.co/1k5ALnS )

 

The
workshop will interrogate such questions as: 

(i) how does Network Neutrality* (NN) relates to network enhancement? 

(ii) is the market alone able to provide appropriate answers to guarantee
network enhancement in accordance with the NN principle?

(iii) how can governmental policies promote private investments in network
enhancement without impinging upon the NN principle?

(iv) is there room or need for State-subsidized network infrastructures?


Moderators:

·        
Luca
Belli, Council of Europe & Université Paris 2

·        
Primavera
De Filippi, CNRS & Berkman Center

Panellists:

·        
Ana
Olmos, Universidad Politécnica de Madrid

·        
Carolina
Rossini, New America Foundation 

·        
Chris
Riley, Mozilla

·        
Elvana
Thaçi, Council of Europe

·        
Michele
Bellavite, ETNO

·        
Parminder
Singh, ICT for Change

Remote moderator:

·        
Nicolo'
Zingales, Tilburg University & CTS-FGV

 

Looking
forward to seeing you in Istanbul.

Best, 

Luca 





*the IGF Dynamic
Coalition on Network Neutrality elaborated the following NN definition: “Network neutrality is the principle according to which Internet traffic
shall be treated equally, without discrimination, restriction or interference
regardless of its sender, recipient, type or content, so that Internet users’
freedom of choice is not restricted by favouring or disfavouring the
transmission of Internet traffic associated with particular content, services,
applications, or devices”
see:  http://www.networkneutrality.info/sources.html


The abovementioned
definition inspired the European Parliament that, in the first reading of
the “Connected Continent Regulation”, affirmed that “The principle
of ‘net neutrality’ in the open internet means that traffic should be treated
equally, without discrimination, restriction or interference, independent of
the sender, receiver, type, content, device, service or application” see :
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?type=TA&reference=P7-TA-2014-0281&language=EN



 		 	   		  
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From nb at bollow.ch  Thu Aug 28 06:04:51 2014
From: nb at bollow.ch (Norbert Bollow)
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 12:04:51 +0200
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for IGF
 Closing Ceremony
In-Reply-To: <d87516996d0b4cd38120e763ec719540@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
References: <CE1414F0127E4948BEBABF0080B655F7@Toshiba>
	<CACTo+v_+c76SbvTkUrEuk=8SaNWT3uhCDwywv3Ysr_XOQsDKkg@mail.gmail.com>
	<959f7a9b422c47038a5dcfeb6b0316b8@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
	<30EB9EE1-9C3F-41FB-A037-6834F9F34BCB@gmail.com>
	<20140827080459.GA14311@hserus.net>
	<83395D44-7E21-4825-8072-37B8D99BDA3D@gmail.com>
	<20140827084254.GA16060@hserus.net>
	<d87516996d0b4cd38120e763ec719540@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <20140828120451.6574a52d@quill>

On Wed, 27 Aug 2014 16:26:20 +0000
Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu> wrote:

> A few words about the broader issues related to speaker selection:
> 
> In a group as large and diverse as this, any speaker who does not
> make any one of us just a little bit uncomfortable is probably not
> saying anything meaningful or worthwhile. This is one of the reasons
> IGF as a whole is perilously close to being broken; there are too
> many lowest common denominator filtering mechanisms that prevent
> anything challenging from being said or done, especially in main
> sessions.
> 
> The idea that any speaker would speak for all of civil society, much
> less every individual on this list,  is not just an impossible
> standard; to my mind it reflects a misunderstanding of what civil
> society is supposed to be and to do in these environments. We are the
> free and diverse elements of the governance institution; we are
> supposed to reflect new and challenging ideas, not to conform or be
> acceptable. There is not now and never will be a "peak association"
> that speaks for all of us as if we were a trade association of oil
> producers or farmers.

Very well said. I'm one of those who disagree with Milton in very many
quite fundamental ways, but I agree wholeheartedly here. It's much
better to have some thought-provoking statements which may challenge us
to maybe disagree or change our mind than to have yet another statement
giving the same kind of list of concerns that has been given many times
already.

Greetings.
Norbert

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From nb at bollow.ch  Thu Aug 28 06:14:49 2014
From: nb at bollow.ch (Norbert Bollow)
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 12:14:49 +0200
Subject: [governance] Civil Society Speakers for IGF Closing Ceremony
In-Reply-To: <53FEE498.4050906@apc.org>
References: <CE1414F0127E4948BEBABF0080B655F7@Toshiba>
	<CACTo+v_+c76SbvTkUrEuk=8SaNWT3uhCDwywv3Ysr_XOQsDKkg@mail.gmail.com>
	<959f7a9b422c47038a5dcfeb6b0316b8@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
	<53FE6742.6050401@cafonso.ca>
	<53FEE498.4050906@apc.org>
Message-ID: <20140828121449.0f971257@quill>

On Thu, 28 Aug 2014 10:13:12 +0200
Anriette Esterhuysen <anriette at apc.org> wrote:

> Will we be able to have two speakers, or will the Secretariat select
> one of these two?

Given that the diversity of civil society stakeholders, I would suggest
that it would be quite absurd to think that civil society as a whole
can be represented by a single speaker. In fact this would be even more
absurd than trying to have all governments of the world represented by
a single governmental speaker.

Greetings,
Norbert
co-convenor, Just Net Coalition 

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From joly at punkcast.com  Thu Aug 28 06:26:28 2014
From: joly at punkcast.com (Joly MacFie)
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 06:26:28 -0400
Subject: [governance] WEBCAST TODAY: WEF NETmundial Initiative Initial
 Scoping Meeting in Geneva
Message-ID: <CAM9VJk3pLzxMLUSUk-1NGH3g=O8qK_UzLZhxtioNyaf5_fOUdg@mail.gmail.com>

This is well underway. You can go back down the live timeline to catch up.
. Look to the tweets for some summary. It seems with Tim B-L and others
sounding cautious notes about preserving openness the outlook is generally
positive.  Myself I am tuned into the AfPIF
<https://new.livestream.com/internetsociety/AfPIF2014day3/> but in my brief
visit to the livestream I heard Fadi announce "CYBERSPACE IS DEAD!"...

 joly posted: "As a followup the NetMundial meeting in Brazil in April 2014
the World Economic Forum has initiated the NETmundial Initiative for
Internet Governance Cooperation & Development. Today Thursday 28 August
2014 they are holding the Initial Scoping Meeting"


[image: WEF Netmundial]
<https://webcasts.weforum.org/widget/1/NETmundial?p=1&pi=1&ms=1&th=2>As a
followup the *NetMundial* <http://netmundial.br/> meeting in Brazil in
April 2014 the *World Economic Forum* <http://www.weforum.org/> has
initiated the
*NETmundial Initiative for Internet Governance Cooperation & Development*
<http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_1NetmundialInitiativeBrief.pdf>.
Today *Thursday
28 August 2014* they are holding the *Initial Scoping Meeting*
<https://webcasts.weforum.org/widget/1/NETmundial?p=1&pi=1&ms=1&th=2> in
Geneva with leaders from government, business, civil society and
academia. *Participants
<http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_4NETmundialListofParticipants.pdf>*
include *Kathryn Brown* of the Internet Society, *Fadi Chehadé* of ICANN, *Tim
Berners Lee* of WWWF, *Hamadoun Touré* of the ITU, and *Lawrence Strickling*
of the NTIA. It is being webcast live the WEF Livestream Channel.

*What*: *NETmundial Initiative Initial Scoping Meeting
<https://webcasts.weforum.org/widget/1/NETmundial?p=1&pi=1&ms=1&th=2>*
*Where*: Geneva Switzerland
*When*: Thursday 28 August 2014 0900-1800 CEST | 0700-1600 UTC
*Agenda*:
http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_3NETmundialInitiativeLaunchAgenda.pdf
*Webcast*: http://new.livestream.com/wef/events/3320009
*Twitter*: #netmundial
<https://twitter.com/search?f=realtime&q=%23netmundial&src=typd>
Comment <http://isoc-ny.org/p2/6931#respond>    See all comments
<http://isoc-ny.org/p2/6931#comments>





*Permalink*:
http://isoc-ny.org/p2/6931





-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
Joly MacFie  218 565 9365 Skype:punkcast
WWWhatsup NYC - http://wwwhatsup.com
 http://pinstand.com - http://punkcast.com
 VP (Admin) - ISOC-NY - http://isoc-ny.org
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From anriette at apc.org  Thu Aug 28 07:19:32 2014
From: anriette at apc.org (Anriette Esterhuysen)
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 13:19:32 +0200
Subject: [governance] APC Remarks on the occasion of the NMI Scoping
 Meeting, 28 August 2014
Message-ID: <53FF1044.7000206@apc.org>


*Remarks from the Association for Progressive Communications on the
NETmundial Initiative (NMI) Initial Scoping Meeting to be held in Geneva
on 28 August 2014*


By the time most members of civil society active in Internet governance
heard of the NETmundial Initiative (or Alliance as it as originally
termed) it was already a fait accompli. A few carefully selected civil
society invitees were given a choice to get on board, or miss their
chance to participate in internet governance's next 'great event'. A
further few were invited to the initial scoping meeting.^^1
<#sdfootnote1sym>


APC was one of the organizations that received an invitation but as we
are not attending the meeting we are sharing these remarks.


The NMI appropriates the name of NETMundial, the multistakeholder event
held in Brazil earlier this year. Yet there are few resemblances between
the NMI and NETMundial outside of the name. The initiative was conceived
of in a top down manner, and efforts to implement it so far – the
scoping meeting- have reflected this approach. It has been neither
inclusive nor transparent. It is of great concern to APC that
information about the event was only released to the public by the
organisers after it had been leaked. This is not an appropriate profile
for any event that purports to operate in the spirit of the NETMundial
principles. And it does not bode well for its future success as a
multistakeholder initiative. It is hard to grasp how an initiative that
starts off in this manner can become a democratic, transparent and
participatory venue for the global community serving human rights and
the public good.

Started, it appears, by the Chief Executive of ICANN, and facilitated
and hosted by World Economic Forum (WEF), the NMI appears to have good
intentions, namely to (quoting from the brief): 1) “Facilitate a
distributed environment of effective global cooperation among
stakeholders through innovative and legitimate mechanisms to tackle
current and future Internet issues; 2) Inform and equip capacity
development initiatives to ensure global participation in Internet
cooperation, especially from under-represented regions; and 3) Work to
build trust in the Internet and its governance ecosystem.” ^^2
<#sdfootnote2sym>

But is the WEF an appropriate forum for these processes? The WEF has
close links to business, and is mostly financed by bigbusiness. It has
expertise in facilitating engagement between business and governments,
and sometimes also with civil society, and its interest in internet
governance should be seen as positive. But very few civil society
organisations, particularly from the developing world (or Global South)
would feel comfortable in WEF spaces. Many identify with the World
Social Forum, the alternative forum which was established to challenge
approaches to globalization and development promoted at the WEF. Many
developing country governments also do not feel that they have equal
voice at theWEF.


Looking at the list of participants at the NMI Scoping Meeting it is
clear who is present, and who is not. By far the majority of
participants come from Europe and North America. Business representation
dramatically outweighs that of civil society.


WEF events are seen as grand events for the rich and powerful that have
very little, if anything, to do with civil society and the daily lives
and struggles of the general population This discomfort leads to
questions and concerns:


  *

    There is a general lack of diversity among the civil society
    participants in most WEF events in general, and in this event – the
    NMI Scoping Meeting - specifically. What will be done to remedy this
    situation as the process continues?


  *

    Does WEF have the capacity to establish something sustained,
    inclusive and bottom up that can gradually lead the way in building
    the legitimacy and inclusiveness needed to operationalise the
    NETmundial outcomes at global, regional, and national levels?


  *

    What experience does WEF have at bridging the gap between those who
    hold power and influence, and a civil society that has neither power
    nor, frequently, influence?


  *

    Most the pressing internet governance challenges of the moment
    involve containing actions by governments and businesses to fragment
    the internet (intentionally or unintentionally). For example,
    insufficient data protection, and new challenges to protecting
    user's rights, and business models which rely on data mining
    practices which put these rights at risk? While business and
    governments need to be part of these solutions, is a forum dominated
    by them (the case for the WEF and thus far for the NMI) likely to
    come up with solutions that challenges their interests?

  *

    How can WEF help to integrate what the NETmundial stands for (public
    interested, multistakeholder, democratic, and human rights oriented
    internet governance) into the day to day running of the internet in
    ways that will be felt by existing and future users?


  *

    What is the NMI relationship to the IGF? Will it focus on
    strengthening it? Or will it attempt to be complimentary? How can it
    guarantee that it will not disrupt the work of thousands that has
    gone into building the IGF over the last decade?


  *

    Will the NMI stand for human rights and make them a priority in
    internet governance?



  *

    How will those developing country governments that currently feel
    excluded and disaffected with multistakeholder internet governance
    processes (and this includes both the NETmundial and the IGF) be
    included and how will they be challenged to change their behaviours
    with regard to, particularly, civil society participation in
    national internet policy processes?



  *

    Will it approach capacity building as a process needed by the
    developing world only? Will it look beyond attributing the primary
    reason for the lack of support for multistakeholder processes among
    developing country governments to lack of capacity and knowledge? Or
    will it use capacity building is often used as a bandaid, with rich
    countries proposing resources/aid for multistakeholder processes as
    means of securing political support at international processes? If
    capacity, and its building, is to be defined by the north for the
    south it will only reinforce existing inequalities in power and will
    fail to strengthen multistakeholder processes at either national or
    global levels.

Having pointed to our concerns, we also want to point to our wishes.
Since this meeting is happening, we wish it the greatest success. We
strongly support its goal of building support for a strong IGF. We would
be willing to assist the WEF during the next six months in trying to
make this initiative a genuinely multistakeholder effort that pays heed
to democratic and bottom-up processes with outreach and accountability
to the global stakeholder community. APC also believes that there is
value in expanding the conversation to include people who have
heretofore been absent from the discussion; we realize that cooperation
with the WEF is one way to build awareness of critical issues and
processes among those actors they have an established relationship with.
Broadening the range of business voices involved in internet governance
is needed. But dominance of business voices in the internet governance
ecosystem is not only not needed, it will destroy any chance that this
distributed, decentralised system has of being regarded as legitimate
and focused on the public interest.


APC insists that greater transparency and inclusiveness going forward is
vital. WEF has committed to a six month period of consultations
regarding whether and how to establish a dedicated organizational
structure to support the NMI going forward, whether or not connected to
the Forum.^^3 <#sdfootnote3sym> The next six months will determine the
degree to which this effort can reach the global community in all of its
diversity in a manner that is worthy of the brand NETMundial.


28 August 2014


1 <#sdfootnote1anc>http://www.weforum.org/issues/global-internet-governance

2
<#sdfootnote2anc>http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_1NetmundialInitiativeBrief.pdf

3
<#sdfootnote3anc>http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_2NETmundialInitiativeFAQ.pdf

-- 
`````````````````````````````````
anriette esterhuysen
executive director
association for progressive communications
po box 29755, melville, 2109, south africa
anriette at apc.org
www.apc.org

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From parminder at itforchange.net  Thu Aug 28 07:18:42 2014
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 16:48:42 +0530
Subject: [governance] from Netmundial to WEF, an expected journey
Message-ID: <53FF1012.5060705@itforchange.net>

  - Please excuse multiple posts -

Hi All,

I did a piece on 'Global Internet governance: a developing-country 
perspective' 
<http://www.twn.my/title2/resurgence/2014/287-288/cover02.htm> in the 
current issue of the magazine 'Third World Resurgence 
<http://www.twn.my/title2/resurgence/2014/287-288.htm>" which is 
published by the Third World Network, Malaysia and Geneva. The news 
about the WEF NetMundial initiative came along as I was writing it, and 
I put my views on the initiative into a box in the article. In fact, it 
fitted quite well with my arguments that I was making in the article in 
any case.

(The issue of Resurgence has primary focus on global Internet 
governance, and contains several articles on the issue. It can seen at 
http://www.twn.my/title2/resurgence/2014/287-288.htm . The pdf version 
of the magazine is at 
http://www.twn.my/title2/resurgence/2014/287-288.htm . A promotional 
email will be circulated separately.)

parminder

(/*Excerpt from the article*/ /*related to the WEF NetMundial initiative 
are be*//*low*//*)*/

Even after Snowden had so thoroughly rattled public perceptions about 
the Internet, and there has been an intense desire to 'do something' 
about it, which is why the world initially rallied behind Brazil in its 
initiative, the status quo-ists were able to completely hijack the 
NETmundial event. It should prima facie be considered strange that a 
meeting called to address a global horror unveiled by Snowden regarding 
the practices of the US government and its corporations ended such that 
the meeting and its outcomes were most celebrated by these very actors. 
Through the practices at NETmundial and its outcome document, they were 
able to lay out a roadmap which points in exactly the opposite direction 
to where the developing countries need to go. It is little surprise then 
that the next stop is the World Economic Forum, where a new 'NETmundial 
Initiative' is now being cooked up (see box). Such processes and 
meetings are sought to supplant traditional, UN-based global governance 
fora.

*From NETmundial to the World Economic Forum*

Walking the tightrope of seeking as wide a global legitimacy as possible 
while still keeping things under full control, the protectors of the 
status quo Internet governance order now seem to be seeking the cover of 
the World Economic Forum (WEF). A NETmundial Initiative1 has been 
announced to be launched at WEF headquarters in Geneva on 28 August 
2014, 'to carry forward the cooperative spirit of Sao Paulo [where the 
NETmundial meeting was held] and work together to apply the NETmundial 
Principles...'.  As can be expected, the list of invited participants is 
heavily dominated by Northern corporations. A select group of government 
leaders and a few civil society organisations are also invited.

In this context, it will be useful to look at the kind of views on 
global Internet governance that have been expressed in WEF reports over 
the last few years. This is what an analysis2 of the WEF's Global 
Redesign Initiative (GRI) has to say about the initiative:

    "One of GRI's major recommendations is that experiences with
    "multistakeholder consultations" on global matters should evolve
    into "multi-stakeholder governance" arrangements. This
    transformation means that non-state actors would no longer just
    provide input to decision-makers (e.g. governments or multinational
    corporations) but would actually be responsible for making global
    policy decisions..."

    'Their recommendations for multistakeholder governance include the
    introduction of parallel meetings with the governing bodies of the
    WHO, UNESCO, and FAO where non-state actors will hold independent
    sessions as a complement to the official government meetings. GRI
    also recommends a second new form of multi-stakeholder governance
    for conflict zones in developing countries. They propose that the
    non-state actors, particularly the business community, join with the
    UN system to jointly administer these conflict zones."

    'There are some sharp differences between "multistakeholder
    consultations" and "multistakeholder governance", some of which are
    often blurred by the loose use of the term "multistakeholder"' .

Multistakeholderism apparently is a new, post-democratic form of 
governance which gives big business a major, institutionalised, 
political role and authority. Multistakeholderism in this form is the 
preferred neoliberal model of governance, whose application begins at 
the global level and with Internet governance but is certainly meant to 
be taken to national levels as well as to all sectors of governance. The 
plan is dead serious, with clear calls for setting up multistakeholder 
organisations that will do policy-making and governance. To quote the 
WEF's Global Agenda Council on the Future of the Internet from GRI's 
final report3:

    'This means designing multistakeholder structures for the
    institutions that deal with global problems with an online
    dimension. Thus the establishment of a multistakeholder institution
    to address such issues as Internet privacy, copyright, crime and
    dispute resolution is necessary. The government voice would be one
    among many, without always being the final arbiter. And as ever more
    problems come to acquire an online dimension, the multistakeholder
    institution would become the default in international cooperation"

The continuing and inevitable digitalisation of our social systems 
appears to be the chosen path for their de-democratisation through 
multistakeholderisation (read: the rule of big business, with some 
crumbs thrown to other parties). //

1 See Internet Governance Transparency Initiative website, 
https://k52lcjc5fws3jbqf.onion.lt/

2 
http://www.umb.edu/gri/appraisal_of_wefs_perspectives_first_objective_enhanced_
legitimacy/multistakeholderism 
<http://www.umb.edu/gri/appraisal_of_wefs_perspectives_first_objective_enhanced_legitimacy/multistakeholderism>

3 'Everybody's Business: Strengthening International Cooperation in a 
More Interdependent World', pp. 317-21. 
http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_GRI_EverybodysBusiness_Report_2010.pdf


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From capdasiege at gmail.com  Thu Aug 28 08:33:46 2014
From: capdasiege at gmail.com (CAPDA CAPDA)
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 14:33:46 +0200
Subject: [governance] APC Remarks on the occasion of the NMI Scoping
 Meeting, 28 August 2014
In-Reply-To: <53FF1044.7000206@apc.org>
References: <53FF1044.7000206@apc.org>
Message-ID: <CAPm5NK5Bi_ez-+DfcSx9VMxgDN+keQ_isDcx4Ny9-nAjTmmjfQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Anriette,

Congratulation for this proposition, these remarks in very insterresting.

Best


2014-08-28 13:19 GMT+02:00 Anriette Esterhuysen <anriette at apc.org>:

>
>  *Remarks from the Association for Progressive Communications on the
> NETmundial Initiative (NMI) Initial Scoping Meeting to be held in Geneva on
> 28 August 2014*
>
>
>  By the time most members of civil society active in Internet governance
> heard of the NETmundial Initiative (or Alliance as it as originally termed)
> it was already a fait accompli. A few carefully selected civil society
> invitees were given a choice to get on board, or miss their chance to
> participate in internet governance's next 'great event'. A further few were
> invited to the initial scoping meeting.1
> <#1481c574ab3c7463_sdfootnote1sym>
>
>
>  APC was one of the organizations that received an invitation but as we
> are not attending the meeting we are sharing these remarks.
>
>
>  The NMI appropriates the name of NETMundial, the multistakeholder event
> held in Brazil earlier this year. Yet there are few resemblances between
> the NMI and NETMundial outside of the name. The initiative was conceived of
> in a top down manner, and efforts to implement it so far - the scoping
> meeting- have reflected this approach. It has been neither inclusive nor
> transparent. It is of great concern to APC that information about the event
> was only released to the public by the organisers after it had been leaked.
> This is not an appropriate profile for any event that purports to operate
> in the spirit of the NETMundial principles. And it does not bode well for
> its future success as a multistakeholder initiative. It is hard to grasp
> how an initiative that starts off in this manner can become a democratic,
> transparent and participatory venue for the global community serving human
> rights and the public good.
>
> Started, it appears, by the Chief Executive of ICANN, and facilitated and
> hosted by World Economic Forum (WEF), the NMI appears to have good
> intentions, namely to (quoting from the brief): 1) "Facilitate a
> distributed environment of effective global cooperation among stakeholders
> through innovative and legitimate mechanisms to tackle current and future
> Internet issues; 2) Inform and equip capacity development initiatives to
> ensure global participation in Internet cooperation, especially from
> under-represented regions; and 3) Work to build trust in the Internet and
> its governance ecosystem." 2 <#1481c574ab3c7463_sdfootnote2sym>
>
> But is the WEF an appropriate forum for these processes? The WEF has
> close links to business, and is mostly financed by big business. It has
> expertise in facilitating engagement between business and governments, and
> sometimes also with civil society, and its interest in internet governance
> should be seen as positive. But very few civil society organisations,
> particularly from the developing world (or Global South) would feel
> comfortable in WEF spaces. Many identify with the World Social Forum, the
> alternative forum which was established to challenge approaches to
> globalization and development promoted at the WEF. Many developing country
> governments also do not feel that they have equal voice at the WEF.
>
>
>  Looking at the list of participants at the NMI Scoping Meeting it is
> clear who is present, and who is not. By far the majority of participants
> come from Europe and North America. Business representation dramatically
> outweighs that of civil society.
>
>
>  WEF events are seen as grand events for the rich and powerful that have
> very little, if anything, to do with civil society and the daily lives and
> struggles of the general population This discomfort leads to questions and
> concerns:
>
>
>
>    -
>
>    There is a general lack of diversity among the civil society
>    participants in most WEF events in general, and in this event - the NMI
>    Scoping Meeting - specifically. What will be done to remedy this situation
>    as the process continues?
>
>
>
>    -
>
>    Does WEF have the capacity to establish something sustained, inclusive
>    and bottom up that can gradually lead the way in building the legitimacy
>    and inclusiveness needed to operationalise the NETmundial outcomes at
>    global, regional, and national levels?
>
>
>
>    -
>
>    What experience does WEF have at bridging the gap between those who
>    hold power and influence, and a civil society that has neither power nor,
>    frequently, influence?
>
>
>
>    -
>
>    Most the pressing internet governance challenges of the moment involve
>    containing actions by governments and businesses to fragment the internet
>    (intentionally or unintentionally). For example, insufficient data
>    protection, and new challenges to protecting user's rights, and business
>    models which rely on data mining practices which put these rights at risk?
>    While business and governments need to be part of these solutions, is a
>    forum dominated by them (the case for the WEF and thus far for the NMI)
>    likely to come up with solutions that challenges their interests?
>     -
>
>    How can WEF help to integrate what the NETmundial stands for (public
>    interested, multistakeholder, democratic, and human rights oriented
>    internet governance) into the day to day running of the internet in ways
>    that will be felt by existing and future users?
>
>
>
>    -
>
>    What is the NMI relationship to the IGF? Will it focus on
>    strengthening it? Or will it attempt to be complimentary? How can it
>    guarantee that it will not disrupt the work of thousands that has gone into
>    building the IGF over the last decade?
>
>
>
>    -
>
>    Will the NMI stand for human rights and make them a priority in
>    internet governance?
>
>
>
>
>    -
>
>    How will those developing country governments that currently feel
>    excluded and disaffected with multistakeholder internet governance
>    processes (and this includes both the NETmundial and the IGF) be included
>    and how will they be challenged to change their behaviours with regard to,
>    particularly, civil society participation in national internet policy
>    processes?
>
>
>
>
>    -
>
>    Will it approach capacity building as a process needed by the
>    developing world only? Will it look beyond attributing the primary reason
>    for the lack of support for multistakeholder processes among developing
>    country governments to lack of capacity and knowledge? Or will it use
>    capacity building is often used as a bandaid, with rich countries proposing
>    resources/aid for multistakeholder processes as means of securing political
>    support at international processes? If capacity, and its building, is to be
>    defined by the north for the south it will only reinforce existing
>    inequalities in power and will fail to strengthen multistakeholder
>    processes at either national or global levels.
>
> Having pointed to our concerns, we also want to point to our wishes. Since
> this meeting is happening, we wish it the greatest success. We strongly
> support its goal of building support for a strong IGF. We would be willing
> to assist the WEF during the next six months in trying to make this
> initiative a genuinely multistakeholder effort that pays heed to democratic
> and bottom-up processes with outreach and accountability to the global
> stakeholder community. APC also believes that there is value in expanding
> the conversation to include people who have heretofore been absent from the
> discussion; we realize that cooperation with the WEF is one way to build
> awareness of critical issues and processes among those actors they have an
> established relationship with. Broadening the range of business voices
> involved in internet governance is needed. But dominance of business voices
> in the internet governance ecosystem is not only not needed, it will
> destroy any chance that this distributed, decentralised system has of being
> regarded as legitimate and focused on the public interest.
>
>
>  APC insists that greater transparency and inclusiveness going forward is
> vital. WEF has committed to a six month period of consultations regarding
> whether and how to establish a dedicated organizational structure to
> support the NMI going forward, whether or not connected to the Forum.3
> <#1481c574ab3c7463_sdfootnote3sym> The next six months will determine the
> degree to which this effort can reach the global community in all of its
> diversity in a manner that is worthy of the brand NETMundial.
>
>
>  28 August 2014
>
>
>  1 <#1481c574ab3c7463_sdfootnote1anc>
> http://www.weforum.org/issues/global-internet-governance
>
> 2 <#1481c574ab3c7463_sdfootnote2anc>
> http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_1NetmundialInitiativeBrief.pdf
>
> 3 <#1481c574ab3c7463_sdfootnote3anc>
> http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_2NETmundialInitiativeFAQ.pdf
>
> --
> `````````````````````````````````
> anriette esterhuysen
> executive director
> association for progressive communications
> po box 29755, melville, 2109, south africaanriette at apc.orgwww.apc.org
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
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>
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>


-- 

*Michel TCHONANG LINZE*
Coordinateur Général

Coordonnateur Régional Afrique Centrale Réseau Panafricain Société Civile
(ACSIS)
*ÉVÈNEMENTS SUR LES TIC** !*


* ·        9ème FGI du 02 au 05 Septembre 2014.à Istanbul, Turquie ·
19ème réunion GCDT à Genève - Suisse, du 29/09 au 1er /10/2014 ·
PP14 de l'UIT du 20 Octobre - 7 Novembre 2014, à Busan - République de
Corée *

CAPDA (Consortium d'Appui aux Actions pour la Promotion et le Développement
de l'Afrique)

BP : 15 151 DOUALA - CAMEROUN Tél. : (237) 7775-39-63 / 2212-9493

Email : capdasiege at gmail.com / forumtic2005 at yahoo.fr
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From jefsey at jefsey.com  Thu Aug 28 09:15:53 2014
From: jefsey at jefsey.com (JFC Morfin)
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 15:15:53 +0200
Subject: [governance] Civil Society Speakers for IGF Closing  Ceremony
In-Reply-To: <20140828121449.0f971257@quill>
References: <CE1414F0127E4948BEBABF0080B655F7@Toshiba>
 <CACTo+v_+c76SbvTkUrEuk=8SaNWT3uhCDwywv3Ysr_XOQsDKkg@mail.gmail.com>
 <959f7a9b422c47038a5dcfeb6b0316b8@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
 <53FE6742.6050401@cafonso.ca>
 <53FEE498.4050906@apc.org>
 <20140828121449.0f971257@quill>
Message-ID: <E1XMzWC-0007KD-OR@igcaucus.org>

At 12:14 28/08/2014, Norbert Bollow wrote:
>Given that the diversity of civil society stakeholders, I would suggest
>that it would be quite absurd to think that civil society as a whole
>can be represented by a single speaker. In fact this would be even more
>absurd than trying to have all governments of the world represented by
>a single governmental speaker.

Norbert,
I think it would be acceptable if the person was an acknowledged or 
intended neutral expert. Network Neutrality is also the way you 
describe the network stakeholders. Fairly introducing the CS 
diversity is good material for thoughts. Attempting to explain it, or 
worse to represent it, is divisive.
jfc



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From rguerra at privaterra.org  Thu Aug 28 10:22:30 2014
From: rguerra at privaterra.org (Robert Guerra)
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 10:22:30 -0400
Subject: [governance] Re: [bestbits] Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
In-Reply-To: <D023912E.BB9F%mgodwin@internews.org>
References: <CANRKRpLVWhrQXVgcD=WQkyZhMwJD8=SuEWwibdEqW4sfxQWGmA@mail.gmail.com> <CANRKRpKLHwYjr48GRC7TQgB6ayUFq-DpVCMDKt2-rzO4e79sOQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com> <741502C1-36BA-4B07-AD5D-774A94079597@gmail.com> <D023912E.BB9F%mgodwin@internews.org>
Message-ID: <EED69264-A28A-481C-AFA8-0EF5213E59EE@privaterra.org>

Mike,

I just got a e-visa as mentioned on the IGF host country website. It wasn’t free, but just took 5 min to obtain.

The Indonesian govt last year refunded participants who paid for a visa. Will the same occur this year?

Robert

On Aug 27, 2014, at 1:45 PM, Mike Godwin (mgodwin at INTERNEWS.ORG) <mgodwin at INTERNEWS.ORG> wrote:

> 
> Sorry to come back to this so late, but preparations have been a distraction.
> 
> I have confirmation of my attendance at IGF, of course, but I’m not sure what is being referred to with regard to the “visa support letter.” Since I am planning to visit the embassy in Washington, DC, tomorrow to ask for the courtesy visa, can someone here advise?
> 
> 
> —Mike
> 
> 
> -- 
> Mike Godwin | Senior Legal Advisor, Global Internet Policy Project
> mnemonic at gmail.com| Mobile 415-793-4446
> Skype mnemonic1026
> Address 1640 Rhode Island Ave., 7th Floor,  Washington, DC 20036 USA
>  
> INTERNEWS | Local Voices. Global Change.
> www.internews.org | @internews | facebook.com/internews
> 
> From: William Drake <wjdrake at gmail.com>
> Reply-To: William Drake <wjdrake at gmail.com>
> Date: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 at 11:55 PM
> To: Subi Chaturvedi <subi.igp at gmail.com>
> Cc: Best Bits <bestbits at lists.bestbits.net>, Governance <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
> Subject: Re: [bestbits] Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
> 
> Hi
> 
> Yes, no change from when I reported this last week, at missions/embassies only, alas not upon arrival or online.
> 
> Bill
> 
> On Aug 12, 2014, at 6:11 PM, Subi Chaturvedi <subi.igp at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Dear all,
>> Heads up on the IGF 2014 participation.  Government of Turkey has confirmed courtesy visas for all.
>> They will however need you to apply at your local Turkish Embassy/ Mission in person.
>> The letter confirming your paticipation at the IGF and the visa support letter will entitle you to the visa application fee waiver ( Courtesy Visa).
>> Hope to see you all in large numbers at the IGF. Thanks Bill for raising the issue.Glad to see that this story has a happy ending.
>> In addition to the Visa we'd also put out a call to raise funding support for civil society and academia participants. Most major organisations are past their application deadlines. But this is a shout out to all CS networks and donors to pool resources and assist others. Large universities and grant making bodies included, through travel grants/fellowships. Even if you can do part funding it will amplify CS participation.
>> Given the fact that we are close to the #post2015 agenda we must be present physically in large nos. Though we have remote participation, there's nothing like being there.
>> This year there's also a designated Open space which allows for greater engagement and informal spontaneous discussions.
>> I'd also like to see greater synergies between different networks in amplyfying support for each other and becoming enablers. ( Just my Santa wishlist).
>> If possible donors could volunteer then co-cos could maybe match the receipients organically with donors off-list. I am aware of many worthy participants/ experts and new comers who would add tremendous value by being there. Let's try and do all that we can to facilitate their presence-Our presence at the IGF.
>> Warmest
>> Subi Chaturvedi
>> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> > From: "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr>
>> > Date: 12 Aug 2014 11:49
>> > Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
>> > To: "Subi Chaturvedi" <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
>> > Cc: "visa" <visa at igf2014.org.tr>, "Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org" <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>, "Aysel KANDEMİR" <akandemir at btk.gov.tr>
>> >
>> > > Dear Ms. Chaturvedi,
>> > >
>> > >  
>> > >
>> > > Dear Sir/Madam,
>> > >
>> > >  
>> > >
>> > > All IGF participants will be given a visa without fee by Turkish missions abroad when they submit the “IGF Registration Confirmation Letter” including civil society, academia and business participants.
>> > >
>> > >  
>> > >
>> > > Looking forward to see you all in Istanbul.
>> > >
>> > >  
>> > >
>> > > Best regards,
>> > >
>> > >  
>> > >
>> > > Samet Tuncer
>> > >
>> > >  
>> > >
>> > > From: Subi Chaturvedi [mailto:subichaturvedi at gmail.com]
>> > > Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 5:35 PM
>> > > To: Samet TUNCER
>> > > Cc: visa;Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org; Aysel KANDEMİR
>> > > Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
>> > >
>> > >  
>> > >
>> > > Dear Samet,
>> > >
>> > > Many thanks for this wonderful gesture. We respect your compulsions and remain immensely grateful to you, our wonderful and generous hosts.
>> > >
>> > > The solution is acceptable and welcome. I do have a question is this valid for all the IGF participants?
>> > >
>> > > This would be great for all the civil society, academia and small business participatants who come and paticipate in the IGF against all odds and enrich the discourse.
>> > >
>> > > I thank you again for playing our gracious hosts.
>> > >
>> > > Looking forward to the best ever IGF.
>> > >
>> > > Warmest
>> > >
>> > > Subi
>> > >
>> > > On 11 Aug 2014 19:06, "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > Dear Sir/Madam,
>> > > >
>> > > >  
>> > > >
>> > > > As a result of our correspondence with Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs, it seems impossible to reimburse the costs of visa application fee at the IGF venue due to internal rules of the Ministry. In this respect, we encourage you to apply Turkish embassies and consulates directly for visa. IGF Registration Confirmation Letter will be enough to get visa without fee according to a communique issued by Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs dated 21/07/2014 Ref No. KVUD/6749221.
>> > > >
>> > > >  
>> > > >
>> > > > Regards,
>> > > >
>> > > >  
>> > > >
>> > > > Samet
>> > > >
>> > > >  
>> > > >>
>> > > >> From: Subi Chaturvedi <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
>> > > >> Date: 9 Ağustos 2014 09:09:40 GMT+3
>> > > >> To: Noël Yao <noelyao2002 at yahoo.fr>, CAVUSOGLU Ahmet Erdinç <acavusoglu at btk.gov.tr>
>> > > >> Cc: "amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr" <amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr>, IGF <IGF at unog.ch>, MAG-public <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>
>> > > >> Subject: Re: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Dear All,
>> > > >>
>> > > >>  
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Reiterating the request for courtesy visa's for IGF participants. As has been the previous practice. The previous hosts have been able to successfully set up kiosks at the IGF venues and reimburse participants the cost towards the visa application fee. It is a positive gesture and deserves all attempts at prolongation and continuity.
>> > > >>
>> > > >>  
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Regards
>> > > >>
>> > > >>  
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Subi
>> > > >>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     bestbits at lists.bestbits.net.
>> To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:
>>     http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits
> 
> 
> 
> Click here to report this email as spam.
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From anriette at apc.org  Thu Aug 28 11:19:55 2014
From: anriette at apc.org (Anriette Esterhuysen)
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 17:19:55 +0200
Subject: [governance] IGF 2014 Final agenda for Day 0 NETmundial event
In-Reply-To: <53FF1FE3.5000103@apc.org>
References: <53FF1FE3.5000103@apc.org>
Message-ID: <53FF489B.80500@apc.org>

Dear all

Apologies for cross posting.

We really want you there!  Please join us.

Anriette


*NETmundial: Looking Back, Learning Lessons and Mapping the Road Ahead*

Organized by:

• Association for Progressive Communication
• CGI.br <http://CGI.br>
• Center for Technology and Society, Getulio Vargas Foundation
• Diplo Foundation
• Internet Policy Observatory, Annenberg School of Communication,
University of Pennsylvania/

===Morning ===

8:30-9:00 Registration

9:00-9:15 Opening and overview of the day - Mr. Virgílio Almeida and
Ms. Anriette Esterhuysen

9:15 – 10.45 *Round-table 1: NETmundial multistakeholder model:
organizing the meeting, getting contributions, configuring the
participation and building the agenda *

In this round-table session, panelists will describe different aspects
of the NETmundial process (committees, drafting activities, consensus
building) and will present their views on how it can strengthen the
Internet Governance multistakeholder model. Special attention will be on
the contributions received, the registration process and the discussions
mainly at the EMC (Executive Multistakeholder Committee)

- Mr. Virgílio Almeida (NETmundial chairman): Overall description of
the NETmundial multistakeholder model – process, committees and
drafting exercise (15 min)
- Mr. Raul Echeberría and Mr. Demi Getschko (Co-Chairs of the EMC): The
work of the EMC – benefits and challenges (5 min each)
- Mr. Adam Peake and Ms. Marilia Maciel (EMC, civil society) (10 min each)
- Mr. Zahid Jamil (EMC, private sector) (10 min)
- Open debate (20 min)

10:45-11:00 Coffee Break

11:00 – 12:30 *Round-table 2: The "NETmundial multistakeholder
statement" *

This session will debate the construction of "NETmundial
Multistakeholder Statement". While describing the specific sessions of
the outcome document, panelists will present their assessment of the
principles and roadmap agreed during the meeting, the participacion of
the HLMC (High-Level Multistakeholder Commitee) and how these can
influence Internet Governance. In particular, the round-table will
discuss the NETmundial recommendations for improvement of the IGF.

- Ambassador Benedicto Fonseca Filho (Ministry of External Relations
Brazil): Overall description of the NETmundial outcome document –
principles and roadmap (10 min)
- Mr. Vinay Kwatra (Ministry of External Affairs India): The view of the
Government of India (10 min)
- Ms. Kathy Brown (President – Internet Society): The assessment of
ISOC (10 min)
- Ms. Jeanette Hofmann (Member of the HLMC): The role of the HMC (10 min)
- Mr. Joseph Alhadeff (Representative from the private sector at the
HLMC) The role of the HLMC (10 min)
- Mr. Alan Marcus (WEF), Mr. Fadi Chehade (ICANN) and Mr. Janis Karklins
(Ambassador of Latvia, Chair of the IGF MAG)about NETmundial Initiative
(10 min each)
- Open Debate (10 min)

12:30-13:30Â  Lunch Break/

===Afternoon===

13:30 - 14:30 *Achieving bottom-up and multistakeholder outcomes from
global IG policy discussions:Â  Extracting lessons from NETmundial*
Presentation of the results of the research initiative conducted by
CTS/FGV, APC and Diplo, including a survey of NETmundial participants
Speakers: Marilia Maciel, Vladimir Radunovic, Renato Leite, Deborah Brown
Moderators: Carlos Afonso

14:30-16:00 *Book launch— **Beyond NETmundial: The Roadmap for
Institutional Improvements to the Global Internet Governance Ecosystem*
(organized by the Internet Policy Observatory, Annenberg School of
Communication, University of Pennsylvania)
Introduction: Monroe Price  (IPO)
Moderator: William J. Drake  (U. Zurich)
Speakers: Jeremy Malcolm  (EFF) ; Markus Kummer (Internet Society) ;
Lea Kaspar (Global Partners Digital) ; Anriette Esterhuysen (APC) ;
Carlos Affonso Pereira de Souza (ITS) ; Emma Llansó  and Matt Shears
(CDT) ; Wolfgang Kleinwächter  (U. Aarhus)

16:00-16:15Â  Coffee Break

16:15-17:15 *Open moderated dialogue on the NETmundial Initiative and
operationalizing the NETmundial principles and roadmap* (organized by
APC, CTS/FGV, CGI.br and Diplo and supported by the IDRC)
Moderator: Anriette Esterhuysen and Raul Echeberría

17:15-18:15 *Open moderated dialogue on strengthening the IGF*
(organized by APC, CTS/FGV CGI.br, and Diplo)
Moderators: Anja Kovacs and Markus Kummer

Resource people for the open dialogues:

Jandyr Ferreira
Flávio Wagner
Fernando Perini
Anja Kovacs
Henrique Faulhaber
Valeria Betancourt
Carlos Affonso Pereira de Souza
Avri Doria
Alice Munyua
Ayesha Hassan
Vladimir Radunovic

NOTE: Resource persons may be called upon by the moderator(s) to provide
a reflection on a specific discussion thread.

18:15-18:45 *Summary of the Day and linkages to the IGF program*

Comments: Anriette Esterhuysen, Marilia Maciel, Carlos Afonso, Vladimir
Radunovic, Raul Echeberría, Markus Kummer
Moderator: Bill Drake


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http://intgovforum.org/mailman/listinfo/igfmaglist_intgovforum.org

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From ca at cafonso.ca  Thu Aug 28 12:08:32 2014
From: ca at cafonso.ca (Carlos A. Afonso)
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 13:08:32 -0300
Subject: [governance] Civil Society Speakers for IGF Closing Ceremony
In-Reply-To: <53FEE498.4050906@apc.org>
References: <CE1414F0127E4948BEBABF0080B655F7@Toshiba> <CACTo+v_+c76SbvTkUrEuk=8SaNWT3uhCDwywv3Ysr_XOQsDKkg@mail.gmail.com> <959f7a9b422c47038a5dcfeb6b0316b8@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu> <53FE6742.6050401@cafonso.ca> <53FEE498.4050906@apc.org>
Message-ID: <53FF5400.5060802@cafonso.ca>

We are trying to have both!

frt rgds

--c.a.

On 08/28/2014 05:13 AM, Anriette Esterhuysen wrote:
> Dear C
> 
> Will we be able to have two speakers, or will the Secretariat select one
> of these two?
> 
> Anriette
> 
> 
> On 28/08/2014 01:18, Carlos A. Afonso wrote:
>> I am quite happy with the choices of Dr Burcu Kiliç and Dr Milton Müller
>> as speakers for civil society in the closing session.
>>
>> fraternal regards
>>
>> --c.a.
>>
>> On 08/26/2014 11:56 PM, Milton L Mueller wrote:
>>> This is quite an honor, all the more so for being totally unexpected. I
>>> will wait to see if the Secretariat approves these nominees; if so, I
>>> promise to have some interesting things to say! Congratulations to Dr
>>> Burcu Kilic as well; I look forward to listening to her.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Milton L Mueller
>>>
>>> Syracuse University School of Information Studies
>>>
>>> http://faculty.ischool.syr.edu/mueller/
>>>
>>> Internet Governance Project
>>>
>>> http://internetgovernance.org
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> *From:*governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] *On Behalf Of *Mawaki Chango
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 26, 2014 5:49 AM
>>> *To:* Internet Governance
>>> *Subject:* [governance] Fwd: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for IGF
>>> Closing Ceremony
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> The Civil Society Coordination Group (CSCG) has forwarded the below two
>>> CS nominations to the IGF Secretariat for speaker spots at the Istanbul
>>> IGF's closing ceremony. As one of your two IGC co-Coordinators, I have
>>> been tasked to represent this Caucus within that Group. Therefore and
>>> for your information, I am hereby forwarding the letter addressed by the
>>> CSCG Chair to the IGF Secretariat to that effect. At this point in time
>>> and in absence of well-developed and established selection procedures,
>>> all the Group members have done the best we could to choose those we
>>> believe (for various reasons) to be the strongest candidates for this
>>> opportunity among all strong candidates. It is our intent and part of
>>> our post-Istanbul agenda to work on clearly developing such procedures.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> For now, let us congratulate the nominees, Milton and Burcu.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Mawaki 
>>>
>>> IGC Co-Coordinator and IGC Rep. to CS Coordination Group
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: *Ian Peter* <ian.peter at ianpeter.com <mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com>>
>>> Date: Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:21 AM
>>> Subject: [cs-coord] Civil Society Speakers for IGF Closing Ceremony
>>> To: igf at unog.ch <mailto:igf at unog.ch>
>>> Cc: cs-coord at lists.bestbits.net <mailto:cs-coord at lists.bestbits.net>,
>>> Subi Chaturvedi <subichaturvedi at gmail.com <mailto:subichaturvedi at gmail.com>>
>>>
>>> Dear Secretariat,
>>>
>>> Subi Chaturvedi passed on to us your request for civil society
>>> nominations for speakers for this years IGF Closing Ceremony. Thank you
>>> for ensuring that civil society is involved in choosing its
>>> representatives to speak on this occasion.
>>>
>>> This request was dealt with by the Internet Governance Civil Society Co
>>> ordination Group (CSCG). This peak group consists of representatives of
>>> the major civil society coalitions involved in Internet Governance
>>> issues, including Internet Governance Caucus, Best Bits, Association for
>>> Progressive Communications, Diplo Foundation, Just Net Coalition,
>>> Civicus, and Non Commercial Stakeholders Group of ICANN. The group,
>>> founded in 2013, has a primary role to ensure a co-ordinated civil
>>> society response and conduit when it comes to making civil society
>>> appointments to outside bodies. This was accepted and respected during
>>> the NetMundial (Brazil) process, and by the 1net community, and we will
>>> be pleased to also work with IGF in the future as regards civil society
>>> representation.
>>>
>>> It was therefore appropriate for this body to consider the question of
>>> speakers for the IGF closing session as requested.
>>>
>>> After calling for expressions of interest and nominations through the
>>> various networks, the CSCG discussed prospective speakers and makes the
>>> following recommendations.
>>>
>>> Firstly, we believe that civil society must have two speakers. Just like
>>> governments or any other stakeholder group, we have more perspectives
>>> than can be handled with just one speaking slot,  and even with two
>>> speakers we feel we are under-represented.
>>>
>>> With this in mind, and bearing also in mind the multistakeholder
>>> principle that stakeholders should choose their own representatives, we
>>> submit the following two names.
>>>
>>>  SPEAKER NO 1
>>>
>>> Our first speaker is Dr Burcu Kilic. Dr Kilic is a Turkish citizen who
>>> is an expert on legal, economic and political issues surrounding
>>> intellectual property law, policy, development and innovation. We are
>>> pleased to be able to nominate such a talented speaker from the host
>>> country.
>>>
>>> SPEAKER NO 2
>>>
>>> Our second speaker is Dr Milton Mueller. Dr Mueller is a Professor at
>>> Syracuse University. His research, teaching and public service for the
>>> last 15 years have been concentrated on the internet governance arena. 
>>>
>>> Please let us know if you need any further information or contact details.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Ian Peter
>>>
>>> Independent Chair, on behalf of the Internet Governance Civil Society
>>> Coordination Group
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list
>>> cs-coord at lists.bestbits.net <mailto:cs-coord at lists.bestbits.net>
>>>
>>> For list archives, member roster, unsubscription and other functions visit:
>>>       http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/summit
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>>  
>>>
> 
> -- 
> `````````````````````````````````
> anriette esterhuysen
> executive director
> association for progressive communications
> po box 29755, melville, 2109, south africa
> anriette at apc.org
> www.apc.org
> 

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From meryem at marzouki.info  Thu Aug 28 12:14:35 2014
From: meryem at marzouki.info (Meryem Marzouki)
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 12:14:35 -0400
Subject: [governance] Re: [bestbits] IGF 2014 Final agenda for Day 0
 NETmundial event
In-Reply-To: <53FF489B.80500@apc.org>
References: <53FF1FE3.5000103@apc.org> <53FF489B.80500@apc.org>
Message-ID: <7BEA0873-86D6-4D8E-8367-8D975005E9AD@marzouki.info>

Hi Anriette and all,

The event sounds really great! Is there any recording of the discussions planned, for those people like me who won't be able to
make it even remotely, due to travelllng that day? Also, will the book be available online (or on site) for free or will it be one those awfully expensive academic books -- and I know what I'm talking about:( 
Best
Meryem

> Le 28 août 2014 à 11:19, Anriette Esterhuysen <anriette at apc.org> a écrit :
> 
> Dear all
> 
> Apologies for cross posting.
> 
> We really want you there!  Please join us.
> 
> Anriette
> 
> 
> NETmundial: Looking Back, Learning Lessons and Mapping the Road Ahead
> 
> Organized by: 
> 
> • Association for Progressive Communication 
> • CGI.br <http://CGI.br> 
> • Center for Technology and Society, Getulio Vargas Foundation 
> • Diplo Foundation 
> • Internet Policy Observatory, Annenberg School of Communication, University of Pennsylvania/ 
> 
> ===Morning ===
> 
> 8:30-9:00 Registration 
> 
> 9:00-9:15 Opening and overview of the day - Mr. Virgílio Almeida and Ms. Anriette Esterhuysen 
> 
> 9:15 – 10.45 *Round-table 1: NETmundial multistakeholder model: organizing the meeting, getting contributions, configuring the participation and building the agenda * 
> 
> In this round-table session, panelists will describe different           aspects of the NETmundial process (committees, drafting activities, consensus building) and will present their views on how it can strengthen the Internet Governance multistakeholder model. Special attention will be on the           contributions received, the registration process and the discussions mainly at the EMC (Executive Multistakeholder Committee) 
> 
> - Mr. Virgílio Almeida (NETmundial chairman): Overall description of the NETmundial multistakeholder model – process, committees and drafting exercise (15 min) 
> - Mr. Raul Echeberría and Mr. Demi Getschko (Co-Chairs of the EMC): The work of the EMC – benefits and challenges (5 min each) 
> - Mr. Adam Peake and Ms. Marilia Maciel (EMC, civil society) (10 min each) 
> - Mr. Zahid Jamil (EMC, private sector) (10 min) 
> - Open debate (20 min) 
> 
> 10:45-11:00 Coffee Break 
> 
> 11:00 – 12:30 *Round-table 2: The "NETmundial multistakeholder statement" * 
> 
> This session will debate the construction of "NETmundial Multistakeholder Statement". While describing the specific sessions of the outcome document, panelists will present their assessment of the principles and roadmap agreed during the meeting, the participacion of the HLMC (High-Level Multistakeholder Commitee) and how these can influence Internet Governance. In particular, the round-table will discuss the NETmundial recommendations for improvement of the IGF. 
> 
> - Ambassador Benedicto Fonseca Filho (Ministry of External Relations Brazil): Overall description of the NETmundial outcome document – principles and roadmap (10 min) 
> - Mr. Vinay Kwatra (Ministry of External Affairs India): The view of the Government of India (10 min) 
> - Ms. Kathy Brown (President – Internet Society): The assessment of ISOC (10 min) 
> - Ms. Jeanette Hofmann (Member of the HLMC): The role of the HMC (10 min) 
> - Mr. Joseph Alhadeff (Representative from the private sector at the HLMC) The role of the HLMC (10 min) 
> - Mr. Alan Marcus (WEF), Mr. Fadi Chehade (ICANN) and Mr.           Janis Karklins (Ambassador of Latvia, Chair of the IGF MAG) about NETmundial Initiative (10 min each) 
> - Open Debate (10 min) 
> 
> 12:30-13:30Â  Lunch Break/ 
> 
> ===Afternoon===
> 
> 13:30 - 14:30 *Achieving bottom-up and multistakeholder outcomes from global IG policy discussions:Â  Extracting lessons from NETmundial* 
> Presentation of the results of the research initiative conducted by CTS/FGV, APC and Diplo, including a survey of NETmundial participants 
> Speakers: Marilia Maciel, Vladimir Radunovic, Renato Leite, Deborah Brown 
> Moderators: Carlos Afonso 
> 
> 14:30-16:00 *Book launch— **Beyond NETmundial: The Roadmap for Institutional Improvements to the Global Internet Governance Ecosystem* (organized by the Internet Policy Observatory, Annenberg School of Communication, University of Pennsylvania) 
> Introduction: Monroe Price  (IPO) 
> Moderator: William J. Drake  (U. Zurich) 
> Speakers: Jeremy Malcolm  (EFF) ; Markus Kummer (Internet Society) ; Lea Kaspar (Global Partners Digital) ; Anriette Esterhuysen (APC) ; Carlos Affonso Pereira de Souza (ITS) ; Emma Llansó  and Matt Shears (CDT) ; Wolfgang Kleinwächter  (U. Aarhus) 
> 
> 16:00-16:15Â  Coffee Break 
> 
> 16:15-17:15 *Open moderated dialogue on the NETmundial Initiative and operationalizing the NETmundial principles and           roadmap* (organized by APC, CTS/FGV, CGI.br and Diplo and supported by the IDRC) 
> Moderator: Anriette Esterhuysen and Raul Echeberría 
> 
> 17:15-18:15 *Open moderated dialogue on strengthening the IGF* (organized by APC, CTS/FGV CGI.br, and Diplo) 
> Moderators: Anja Kovacs and Markus Kummer 
> 
> Resource people for the open dialogues: 
> 
> Jandyr Ferreira 
> Flávio Wagner 
> Fernando Perini 
> Anja Kovacs 
> Henrique Faulhaber 
> Valeria Betancourt 
> Carlos Affonso Pereira de Souza 
> Avri Doria 
> Alice Munyua 
> Ayesha Hassan 
> Vladimir Radunovic 
> 
> NOTE: Resource persons may be called upon by the moderator(s) to provide a reflection on a specific discussion thread. 
> 
> 18:15-18:45 *Summary of the Day and linkages to the IGF program* 
> 
> Comments: Anriette Esterhuysen, Marilia Maciel, Carlos Afonso, Vladimir Radunovic, Raul Echeberría, Markus Kummer 
> Moderator: Bill Drake
> 
> 
> <Attached Message Part>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     bestbits at lists.bestbits.net.
> To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:
>     http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits
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From nb at bollow.ch  Thu Aug 28 12:16:37 2014
From: nb at bollow.ch (Norbert Bollow)
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 18:16:37 +0200
Subject: [governance] Internet Ungovernance Forum
Message-ID: <20140828181637.28682ab9@quill>

The “Internet Ungovernance Forum” seems to not yet have been mentioned
here...

https://iuf.alternatifbilisim.org/

"""
We're organizing the Internet Ungovernance Forum on September 4-5, for
people who demand that fundamental freedoms, openness, unity and net
neutrality remain the building blocks of the Internet. Our ambition is
to talk about the real problems of the internet, how we can solve these
and to chart a path for action.

Our forum will be in parallel to the Internet Governance Forum (IGF)
2014 which will also be held in Istanbul between September 2-5.
Interested parties all around the world will join and follow this
important event. We see that at IGF the most urgent problems of the
Internet do not get the right attention. Due to the
"multi-stakeholderism" format, the main perpetrators of many of the
Internet's problems, governments and corporations, are getting
representation in IGF they don’t deserve. Given these circumstances, we
decided to take initiative to defend the Internet as we know it and to
create a space to raise the voices of civil society initiatives,
activists and common people.

For us, the most vital problems today are censorship and freedom of
speech; surveillance and privacy; excessive commercialization and
super-monopolies; protective, prohibitionist and conservative
governance approaches; awful governance examples as in the case of
Turkey and the list goes on. Further, we do not see any of these
problems independent of the greater political, social and economic
contexts in which the Internet and related digital infrastructures are
embedded in. We call on our participants to resist seeing the problems
of the Internet as only technological and void of its materiality. We
want to reclaim the Internet as a fundamental infrastructure of our
societies, cities, education, health, work, media, communications,
culture and everyday activities. 
"""

This is organized by a Turkish group named Alternative Informatics
Association.

Greetings,
Norbert

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From anriette at apc.org  Thu Aug 28 12:17:52 2014
From: anriette at apc.org (Anriette Esterhuysen)
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 18:17:52 +0200
Subject: [governance] Re: [bestbits] IGF 2014 Final agenda for Day 0
 NETmundial event
In-Reply-To: <CAG+du62NsmBsDGGhDtUdmnoAWWfRO2gdQAb2YA2dYnz-nAQOwA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <53FF1FE3.5000103@apc.org>	<53FF489B.80500@apc.org> <CAG+du62NsmBsDGGhDtUdmnoAWWfRO2gdQAb2YA2dYnz-nAQOwA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53FF5630.5030908@apc.org>

Apologies all!  I left the date off the agenda. Thanks for pointing this
out Burcu!

It is on Day 0 which is 1 September.

More information here:

http://sched.co/1r7K8s3


Anriette


On 28/08/2014 18:07, Burcu Bakioglu wrote:
> Hi Anriette,
> I don't see a date on this schedule. Do you know which day this is on?
>
> Kind regards.
>
> BsB
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 10:19 AM, Anriette Esterhuysen
> <anriette at apc.org <mailto:anriette at apc.org>> wrote:
>
>     Dear all
>
>     Apologies for cross posting.
>
>     We really want you there!  Please join us.
>
>     Anriette
>
>
>     *NETmundial: Looking Back, Learning Lessons and Mapping the Road
>     Ahead*
>
>     Organized by:
>
>     • Association for Progressive Communication
>     • CGI.br <http://CGI.br> <http://CGI.br>
>     • Center for Technology and Society, Getulio Vargas Foundation
>     • Diplo Foundation
>     • Internet Policy Observatory, Annenberg School of
>     Communication, University of Pennsylvania/
>
>     ===Morning ===
>
>     8:30-9:00 Registration
>
>     9:00-9:15 Opening and overview of the day - Mr. Virgílio Almeida
>     and Ms. Anriette Esterhuysen
>
>     9:15 – 10.45 *Round-table 1: NETmundial multistakeholder model:
>     organizing the meeting, getting contributions, configuring the
>     participation and building the agenda *
>
>     In this round-table session, panelists will describe different
>     aspects of the NETmundial process (committees, drafting
>     activities, consensus building) and will present their views on
>     how it can strengthen the Internet Governance multistakeholder
>     model. Special attention will be on the contributions received,
>     the registration process and the discussions mainly at the EMC
>     (Executive Multistakeholder Committee)
>
>     - Mr. Virgílio Almeida (NETmundial chairman): Overall description
>     of the NETmundial multistakeholder model – process, committees
>     and drafting exercise (15 min)
>     - Mr. Raul Echeberría and Mr. Demi Getschko (Co-Chairs of the
>     EMC): The work of the EMC – benefits and challenges (5 min each)
>     - Mr. Adam Peake and Ms. Marilia Maciel (EMC, civil society) (10
>     min each)
>     - Mr. Zahid Jamil (EMC, private sector) (10 min)
>     - Open debate (20 min)
>
>     10:45-11:00 Coffee Break
>
>     11:00 – 12:30 *Round-table 2: The "NETmundial multistakeholder
>     statement" *
>
>     This session will debate the construction of "NETmundial
>     Multistakeholder Statement". While describing the specific
>     sessions of the outcome document, panelists will present their
>     assessment of the principles and roadmap agreed during the
>     meeting, the participacion of the HLMC (High-Level
>     Multistakeholder Commitee) and how these can influence Internet
>     Governance. In particular, the round-table will discuss the
>     NETmundial recommendations for improvement of the IGF.
>
>     - Ambassador Benedicto Fonseca Filho (Ministry of External
>     Relations Brazil): Overall description of the NETmundial outcome
>     document – principles and roadmap (10 min)
>     - Mr. Vinay Kwatra (Ministry of External Affairs India): The view
>     of the Government of India (10 min)
>     - Ms. Kathy Brown (President – Internet Society): The assessment
>     of ISOC (10 min)
>     - Ms. Jeanette Hofmann (Member of the HLMC): The role of the HMC
>     (10 min)
>     - Mr. Joseph Alhadeff (Representative from the private sector at
>     the HLMC) The role of the HLMC (10 min)
>     - Mr. Alan Marcus (WEF), Mr. Fadi Chehade (ICANN) and Mr. Janis
>     Karklins (Ambassador of Latvia, Chair of the IGF MAG) about
>     NETmundial Initiative (10 min each)
>     - Open Debate (10 min)
>
>     12:30-13:30Â  Lunch Break/
>
>     ===Afternoon===
>
>     13:30 - 14:30 *Achieving bottom-up and multistakeholder outcomes
>     from global IG policy discussions:Â  Extracting lessons from
>     NETmundial*
>     Presentation of the results of the research initiative conducted
>     by CTS/FGV, APC and Diplo, including a survey of NETmundial
>     participants
>     Speakers: Marilia Maciel, Vladimir Radunovic, Renato Leite,
>     Deborah Brown
>     Moderators: Carlos Afonso
>
>     14:30-16:00 *Book launch— **Beyond NETmundial: The Roadmap for
>     Institutional Improvements to the Global Internet Governance
>     Ecosystem* (organized by the Internet Policy Observatory,
>     Annenberg School of Communication, University of Pennsylvania)
>     Introduction: Monroe Price  (IPO)
>     Moderator: William J. Drake  (U. Zurich)
>     Speakers: Jeremy Malcolm  (EFF) ; Markus Kummer (Internet
>     Society) ; Lea Kaspar (Global Partners Digital) ; Anriette
>     Esterhuysen (APC) ; Carlos Affonso Pereira de Souza (ITS) ; Emma
>     Llansó  and Matt Shears (CDT) ; Wolfgang Kleinwächter  (U.
>     Aarhus)
>
>     16:00-16:15Â  Coffee Break
>
>     16:15-17:15 *Open moderated dialogue on the NETmundial Initiative
>     and operationalizing the NETmundial principles and roadmap*
>     (organized by APC, CTS/FGV, CGI.br and Diplo and supported by the
>     IDRC)
>     Moderator: Anriette Esterhuysen and Raul Echeberría
>
>     17:15-18:15 **Open moderated dialogue on strengthening the IGF**
>     (organized by APC, CTS/FGV CGI.br, and Diplo)
>     Moderators: Anja Kovacs and Markus Kummer
>
>     Resource people for the open dialogues:
>
>     Jandyr Ferreira
>     Flávio Wagner
>     Fernando Perini
>     Anja Kovacs
>     Henrique Faulhaber
>     Valeria Betancourt
>     Carlos Affonso Pereira de Souza
>     Avri Doria
>     Alice Munyua
>     Ayesha Hassan
>     Vladimir Radunovic
>
>     NOTE: Resource persons may be called upon by the moderator(s) to
>     provide a reflection on a specific discussion thread.
>
>     18:15-18:45 **Summary of the Day and linkages to the IGF program**
>
>     Comments: Anriette Esterhuysen, Marilia Maciel, Carlos Afonso,
>     Vladimir Radunovic, Raul Echeberría, Markus Kummer
>     Moderator: Bill Drake
>
>
>
>     ____________________________________________________________
>     You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>          bestbits at lists.bestbits.net <mailto:bestbits at lists.bestbits.net>.
>     To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:
>          http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Thanks,
>
> Burcu S. Bakioglu, Ph.D.
> Postdoctoral Fellow in New Media
> Lawrence University
>
> http://www.palefirer.com
>
> -- "There is nothing more frightening than a clown after midnight."
> Lon Chaney
>  

-- 
`````````````````````````````````
anriette esterhuysen
executive director
association for progressive communications
po box 29755, melville, 2109, south africa
anriette at apc.org
www.apc.org

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From ca at cafonso.ca  Thu Aug 28 13:00:33 2014
From: ca at cafonso.ca (Carlos A. Afonso)
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 14:00:33 -0300
Subject: [governance] Re: [Internet Policy] Network Neutrality: a Roadmap
 for Infrastructure Enhancement
In-Reply-To: <DUB122-W471EAFA6443FA5720CC740C6DA0@phx.gbl>
References: <DUB122-W471EAFA6443FA5720CC740C6DA0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <53FF6031.7010005@cafonso.ca>

There is a real glut of relevant workshops in the morning Sept 03.
Trying to accomodate without resorting to teleporting... :)

fraternal regards

--c.a.

On 08/28/2014 06:09 AM, Luca Belli wrote:
> 
> Dear all,
> 
> 
> I would like to invite you to participate – /in situ/ or remotely – to
> IGF workshop 172: Network Neutrality: a Roadmap for Infrastructure
> Enhancement
> <https://mail.coe.int/owa/redir.aspx?C=h0jdb1wydUyHxeFhr52TPIafqdIrltEI4QyNOxdVubo09HQWKIBRrAfH8epXRTlQAsI4G7dyx6Q.&URL=http%3a%2f%2figf2014.sched.org%2fevent%2fccbce0baab66d26f55de10d7fd5ba953%3fiframe%3dno>_ _that
> will be held on 3 September from 11:00 to 12:30 (see:
> http://sched.co/1k5ALnS)
> 
>  
> 
> The workshop will interrogate such questions as:
> (i) how does Network Neutrality* (NN) relates to network enhancement?
> (ii) is the market alone able to provide appropriate answers to
> guarantee network enhancement in accordance with the NN principle?
> (iii) how can governmental policies promote private investments in
> network enhancement without impinging upon the NN principle?
> (iv) is there room or need for State-subsidized network infrastructures?
> 
> 
>     Moderators:
> 
>     ·         Luca Belli, Council of Europe & Université Paris 2
> 
>     ·         Primavera De Filippi, CNRS & Berkman Center
> 
>     Panellists:
> 
>     ·         Ana Olmos, Universidad Politécnica de Madrid
> 
>     ·         Carolina Rossini, New America Foundation
> 
>     ·         Chris Riley, Mozilla
> 
>     ·         Elvana Thaçi, Council of Europe
> 
>     ·         Michele Bellavite, ETNO
> 
>     ·         Parminder Singh, ICT for Change
> 
>     Remote moderator:
> 
>     ·         Nicolo' Zingales, Tilburg University & CTS-FGV
> 
>  
> 
> Looking forward to seeing you in Istanbul.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Luca
> 
> 
> 
> *the IGF Dynamic Coalition on Network Neutrality elaborated the
> following NN definition: “Network neutrality is the principle according
> to which Internet traffic shall be treated equally, without
> discrimination, restriction or interference regardless of its sender,
> recipient, type or content, so that Internet users’ freedom of choice is
> not restricted by favouring or disfavouring the transmission of Internet
> traffic associated with particular content, services, applications, or
> devices”see:  http://www.networkneutrality.info/sources.html
> 
> The abovementioned definition inspired the European Parliament that, in
> the first reading of the “Connected Continent Regulation”, affirmed that
> “The principle of ‘net neutrality’ in the open internet means that
> traffic should be treated equally, without discrimination, restriction
> or interference, independent of the sender, receiver, type, content,
> device, service or application” see :
> http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?type=TA&reference=P7-TA-2014-0281&language=EN
> 
> 
> /
> /
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> To manage your ISOC subscriptions or unsubscribe,
> please log into the ISOC Member Portal:
> https://portal.isoc.org/
> Then choose Interests & Subscriptions from the My Account menu.
> 

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From ms.narine.khachatryan at gmail.com  Thu Aug 28 13:50:10 2014
From: ms.narine.khachatryan at gmail.com (Narine Khachatryan)
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 21:50:10 +0400
Subject: [governance] Freedom House: The Struggle for Turkey's Internet
Message-ID: <CAPVtaumSypd_Wuufe137K+QXgfMdWu_6GfbJ+DB0Rd+O+5THjw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,

The Freedom House has released a special report​​ on Internet freedoms in
Turkey, titled “The struggle for Turkey’s Internet
<https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Ffreedomhouse.org%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2FThe%2520Struggle%2520for%2520Turkey%2527s%2520Internet.pdf>
​",
 in advance of the IGF 2014.
In its report The Freedom House has criticized the Turkish government over
increasing restrictions on the Internet, expressed concerns over the
growing role of state in Internet governance, describing Turkey as a
“battleground country” in relation to Internet freedoms.

To learn more you can visit
http://www.freedomhouse.org/article/turkey-struggle-internet#.U_9l9_mSygw

Regards,
Narine

-- 
Narine Khachatryan
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From anriette at apc.org  Thu Aug 28 14:24:16 2014
From: anriette at apc.org (Anriette Esterhuysen)
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 20:24:16 +0200
Subject: [governance] APC Remarks on the occasion of the NMI Scoping
 Meeting, 28 August 2014
In-Reply-To: <CAPm5NK5Bi_ez-+DfcSx9VMxgDN+keQ_isDcx4Ny9-nAjTmmjfQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <53FF1044.7000206@apc.org> <CAPm5NK5Bi_ez-+DfcSx9VMxgDN+keQ_isDcx4Ny9-nAjTmmjfQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53FF73D0.5070206@apc.org>

Document available online at
http://www.apc.org/en/news/remarks-apc-netmundial-initiative-nmi-initial-scop

Anriette

-- 
`````````````````````````````````
anriette esterhuysen
executive director
association for progressive communications
po box 29755, melville, 2109, south africa
anriette at apc.org
www.apc.org

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From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com  Thu Aug 28 17:36:31 2014
From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro)
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2014 09:36:31 +1200
Subject: [governance] IGF 2014 and UN SIDS Conference
Message-ID: <CAJwbTiDZtkqvMKeN6GVQ+0WJYWOLN8bJJmem=9EaQcc1Y4mHBQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear All,

I trust that you are all excited as I am about this year's IGF. There are
three pressing things requiring my attendance all within the span of the
same time - the IGF and the South East Asia Computer Confederation
Executive meeting in Sri Lanka. As it takes quite some time to travel from
the South seas to the North, my current responsibilities demand my
maximizing efficiency, although I know the IGF is going to be pretty
awesome. I will be streaming in from the Pacific.

I will say this though, we have got some developmental initiatives in the
Pacific lined up that is going to be pretty dynamic in terms of advancing
development and I am excited about the future of the Internet in the
Pacific.

Whilst I cannot be there at the IGF in person this time, I will be
participating remotely.

For those of you who have friends who will be attending the UN SIDS
conference, kindly invite them to attend the ICT for Sustainable
Development Side event.

We (University of the South Pacific) are organising a Side Event at the
this year's* United Nations Small Islands Developing States* Conference
called:

ICT for Sustainable Development
Date: *4th September 2014*
Time: *11:00am - 12:30pm*
Venue: CR1 Faleata Sports Complex Apia, Samoa

For more information, kindly contact USP's ICT Outreach Coordinator - Mr
Sakaio Manoa on manoa_s at usp.ac.fj


With every best wish,
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro
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From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com  Thu Aug 28 18:03:18 2014
From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro)
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2014 10:03:18 +1200
Subject: [governance] Re: IGF 2014 and UN SIDS Conference
In-Reply-To: <CAJwbTiDZtkqvMKeN6GVQ+0WJYWOLN8bJJmem=9EaQcc1Y4mHBQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJwbTiDZtkqvMKeN6GVQ+0WJYWOLN8bJJmem=9EaQcc1Y4mHBQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJwbTiBcBifTLWxpk=OsDOS-PtSRTRtg=ro9t5f1k6d89-Mj0A@mail.gmail.com>

Dear All,

Kindly find  the Brochure about the Event attached.

Regards,
Sala


On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 9:36 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <
salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> I trust that you are all excited as I am about this year's IGF. There are
> three pressing things requiring my attendance all within the span of the
> same time - the IGF and the South East Asia Computer Confederation
> Executive meeting in Sri Lanka. As it takes quite some time to travel from
> the South seas to the North, my current responsibilities demand my
> maximizing efficiency, although I know the IGF is going to be pretty
> awesome. I will be streaming in from the Pacific.
>
> I will say this though, we have got some developmental initiatives in the
> Pacific lined up that is going to be pretty dynamic in terms of advancing
> development and I am excited about the future of the Internet in the
> Pacific.
>
> Whilst I cannot be there at the IGF in person this time, I will be
> participating remotely.
>
> For those of you who have friends who will be attending the UN SIDS
> conference, kindly invite them to attend the ICT for Sustainable
> Development Side event.
>
> We (University of the South Pacific) are organising a Side Event at the
> this year's* United Nations Small Islands Developing States* Conference
> called:
>
> ICT for Sustainable Development
> Date: *4th September 2014*
> Time: *11:00am - 12:30pm*
> Venue: CR1 Faleata Sports Complex Apia, Samoa
>
> For more information, kindly contact USP's ICT Outreach Coordinator - Mr
> Sakaio Manoa on manoa_s at usp.ac.fj
>
>
> With every best wish,
> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro
>
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From subi.igp at gmail.com  Fri Aug 29 00:59:54 2014
From: subi.igp at gmail.com (Subi Chaturvedi)
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2014 10:29:54 +0530
Subject: [governance] Re: [bestbits] Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
In-Reply-To: <EED69264-A28A-481C-AFA8-0EF5213E59EE@privaterra.org>
References: <CANRKRpLVWhrQXVgcD=WQkyZhMwJD8=SuEWwibdEqW4sfxQWGmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANRKRpKLHwYjr48GRC7TQgB6ayUFq-DpVCMDKt2-rzO4e79sOQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFfuWVmJbTqS1vbAfdgcs68Jrk-XXNmprL-BV4qjYuoeQv0QxQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<741502C1-36BA-4B07-AD5D-774A94079597@gmail.com>
	<D023912E.BB9F%mgodwin@internews.org>
	<EED69264-A28A-481C-AFA8-0EF5213E59EE@privaterra.org>
Message-ID: <CAFfuWV=Z+Hk=nq5ta+=EMALU2LwUeFteqK07-H7KLDWzRPJ0zg@mail.gmail.com>

Robert I checked on the refund early. The host country reps have
confirmed,  due to internal processes a refund is not possible at the
venue.

If a courtesy visa is to be availed one needs to apply in person at the
embassy.

The e-visa is a simpler process. But the visa fee will have to be paid.

Regards

Subi Chaturvedi

On 28 Aug 2014 19:52, "Robert Guerra" <rguerra at privaterra.org> wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> I just got a e-visa as mentioned on the IGF host country website. It
wasn’t free, but just took 5 min to obtain.
>
> The Indonesian govt last year refunded participants who paid for a visa.
Will the same occur this year?
>
> Robert
>
> On Aug 27, 2014, at 1:45 PM, Mike Godwin (mgodwin at INTERNEWS.ORG) <
mgodwin at INTERNEWS.ORG> wrote:
>
>>
>> Sorry to come back to this so late, but preparations have been a
distraction.
>>
>> I have confirmation of my attendance at IGF, of course, but I’m not sure
what is being referred to with regard to the “visa support letter.” Since I
am planning to visit the embassy in Washington, DC, tomorrow to ask for the
courtesy visa, can someone here advise?
>>
>>
>> —Mike
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mike Godwin | Senior Legal Advisor, Global Internet Policy Project
>> mnemonic at gmail.com| Mobile 415-793-4446
>> Skype mnemonic1026
>> Address 1640 Rhode Island Ave., 7th Floor,  Washington, DC 20036 USA
>>
>> INTERNEWS | Local Voices. Global Change.
>> www.internews.org | @internews | facebook.com/internews
>>
>> From: William Drake <wjdrake at gmail.com>
>> Reply-To: William Drake <wjdrake at gmail.com>
>> Date: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 at 11:55 PM
>> To: Subi Chaturvedi <subi.igp at gmail.com>
>> Cc: Best Bits <bestbits at lists.bestbits.net>, Governance <
governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
>> Subject: Re: [bestbits] Courtesy Visa for Turkey and funding
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> Yes, no change from when I reported this last week, at
missions/embassies only, alas not upon arrival or online.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> On Aug 12, 2014, at 6:11 PM, Subi Chaturvedi <subi.igp at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear all,
>>> Heads up on the IGF 2014 participation.  Government of Turkey has
confirmed courtesy visas for all.
>>> They will however need you to apply at your local Turkish Embassy/
Mission in person.
>>> The letter confirming your paticipation at the IGF and the visa support
letter will entitle you to the visa application fee waiver ( Courtesy Visa).
>>> Hope to see you all in large numbers at the IGF. Thanks Bill for
raising the issue.Glad to see that this story has a happy ending.
>>> In addition to the Visa we'd also put out a call to raise funding
support for civil society and academia participants. Most major
organisations are past their application deadlines. But this is a shout out
to all CS networks and donors to pool resources and assist others. Large
universities and grant making bodies included, through travel
grants/fellowships. Even if you can do part funding it will amplify CS
participation.
>>> Given the fact that we are close to the #post2015 agenda we must be
present physically in large nos. Though we have remote participation,
there's nothing like being there.
>>> This year there's also a designated Open space which allows for greater
engagement and informal spontaneous discussions.
>>> I'd also like to see greater synergies between different networks in
amplyfying support for each other and becoming enablers. ( Just my Santa
wishlist).
>>> If possible donors could volunteer then co-cos could maybe match the
receipients organically with donors off-list. I am aware of many worthy
participants/ experts and new comers who would add tremendous value by
being there. Let's try and do all that we can to facilitate their
presence-Our presence at the IGF.
>>> Warmest
>>> Subi Chaturvedi
>>> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> > From: "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr>
>>> > Date: 12 Aug 2014 11:49
>>> > Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
>>> > To: "Subi Chaturvedi" <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
>>> > Cc: "visa" <visa at igf2014.org.tr>, "Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org" <
Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>, "Aysel KANDEMİR" <akandemir at btk.gov.tr>
>>> >
>>> > > Dear Ms. Chaturvedi,
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Dear Sir/Madam,
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > All IGF participants will be given a visa without fee by Turkish
missions abroad when they submit the “IGF Registration Confirmation Letter”
including civil society, academia and business participants.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Looking forward to see you all in Istanbul.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Best regards,
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Samet Tuncer
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > From: Subi Chaturvedi [mailto:subichaturvedi at gmail.com]
>>> > > Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 5:35 PM
>>> > > To: Samet TUNCER
>>> > > Cc: visa;Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org; Aysel KANDEMİR
>>> > > Subject: RE: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Dear Samet,
>>> > >
>>> > > Many thanks for this wonderful gesture. We respect your compulsions
and remain immensely grateful to you, our wonderful and generous hosts.
>>> > >
>>> > > The solution is acceptable and welcome. I do have a question is
this valid for all the IGF participants?
>>> > >
>>> > > This would be great for all the civil society, academia and small
business participatants who come and paticipate in the IGF against all odds
and enrich the discourse.
>>> > >
>>> > > I thank you again for playing our gracious hosts.
>>> > >
>>> > > Looking forward to the best ever IGF.
>>> > >
>>> > > Warmest
>>> > >
>>> > > Subi
>>> > >
>>> > > On 11 Aug 2014 19:06, "Samet TUNCER" <stuncer at btk.gov.tr> wrote:
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Dear Sir/Madam,
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > As a result of our correspondence with Turkish Ministry of
Foreign Affairs, it seems impossible to reimburse the costs of visa
application fee at the IGF venue due to internal rules of the Ministry. In
this respect, we encourage you to apply Turkish embassies and consulates
directly for visa. IGF Registration Confirmation Letter will be enough to
get visa without fee according to a communique issued by Turkish Ministry
of Foreign Affairs dated 21/07/2014 Ref No. KVUD/6749221.
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Regards,
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Samet
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >> From: Subi Chaturvedi <subichaturvedi at gmail.com>
>>> > > >> Date: 9 Ağustos 2014 09:09:40 GMT+3
>>> > > >> To: Noël Yao <noelyao2002 at yahoo.fr>, CAVUSOGLU Ahmet Erdinç <
acavusoglu at btk.gov.tr>
>>> > > >> Cc: "amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr" <amessinoukossi at yahoo.fr>, IGF <
IGF at unog.ch>, MAG-public <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>
>>> > > >> Subject: Re: [IGFmaglist] Visa for Turkey
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >> Dear All,
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >> Reiterating the request for courtesy visa's for IGF
participants. As has been the previous practice. The previous hosts have
been able to successfully set up kiosks at the IGF venues and reimburse
participants the cost towards the visa application fee. It is a positive
gesture and deserves all attempts at prolongation and continuity.
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >> Regards
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >> Subi
>>> > > >>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>     bestbits at lists.bestbits.net.
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From wjdrake at gmail.com  Fri Aug 29 01:23:19 2014
From: wjdrake at gmail.com (William Drake)
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2014 07:23:19 +0200
Subject: [governance] Re: [bestbits] IGF 2014 Final agenda for Day 0
 NETmundial event
In-Reply-To: <7BEA0873-86D6-4D8E-8367-8D975005E9AD@marzouki.info>
References: <53FF1FE3.5000103@apc.org> <53FF489B.80500@apc.org> <7BEA0873-86D6-4D8E-8367-8D975005E9AD@marzouki.info>
Message-ID: <93E0C171-41D3-421C-958B-650AFD192D22@gmail.com>

Hi Meryem

The ‘book’ is just a PDF file with 16 chapters, so no expensive hardcovers here.  It was pulled together very quickly over the summer, so it’s not like an academic volume.  It should be posted by IPO this weekend, Monday latest.  When it happens there’ll be announcements.

As Day 0 events are entirely community initiated and not formally part of the meeting program, there’s no remote participation budgeted.  In the context of the current debate on strengthening the IGF (which will be covered in the Day 0 event and several main sessions, particularly this one http://sched.co/1n76j1g ) this could be something that we push to correct.  By this point I think we ought to treat Day 0 as an integral part of the program rather than something that just sort of happens and whoever can show up does.  But there would be questions of budget, staff, host country facilities, MAG role and so on to contend with….

Best

Bill



On Aug 28, 2014, at 6:14 PM, Meryem Marzouki <meryem at marzouki.info> wrote:

> Hi Anriette and all,
> 
> The event sounds really great! Is there any recording of the discussions planned, for those people like me who won't be able to
> make it even remotely, due to travelllng that day? Also, will the book be available online (or on site) for free or will it be one those awfully expensive academic books -- and I know what I'm talking about:( 
> Best
> Meryem
> 
> Le 28 août 2014 à 11:19, Anriette Esterhuysen <anriette at apc.org> a écrit :
> 
>> Dear all
>> 
>> Apologies for cross posting.
>> 
>> We really want you there!  Please join us.
>> 
>> Anriette
>> 
>> 
>> NETmundial: Looking Back, Learning Lessons and Mapping the Road Ahead
>> 
>> Organized by: 
>> 
>> • Association for Progressive Communication 
>> • CGI.br <http://CGI.br> 
>> • Center for Technology and Society, Getulio Vargas Foundation 
>> • Diplo Foundation 
>> • Internet Policy Observatory, Annenberg School of Communication, University of Pennsylvania/ 
>> 
>> ===Morning ===
>> 
>> 8:30-9:00 Registration 
>> 
>> 9:00-9:15 Opening and overview of the day - Mr. Virgílio Almeida and Ms. Anriette Esterhuysen 
>> 
>> 9:15 – 10.45 *Round-table 1: NETmundial multistakeholder model: organizing the meeting, getting contributions, configuring the participation and building the agenda * 
>> 
>> In this round-table session, panelists will describe different aspects of the NETmundial process (committees, drafting activities, consensus building) and will present their views on how it can strengthen the Internet Governance multistakeholder model. Special attention will be on the contributions received, the registration process and the discussions mainly at the EMC (Executive Multistakeholder Committee) 
>> 
>> - Mr. Virgílio Almeida (NETmundial chairman): Overall description of the NETmundial multistakeholder model – process, committees and drafting exercise (15 min) 
>> - Mr. Raul Echeberría and Mr. Demi Getschko (Co-Chairs of the EMC): The work of the EMC – benefits and challenges (5 min each) 
>> - Mr. Adam Peake and Ms. Marilia Maciel (EMC, civil society) (10 min each) 
>> - Mr. Zahid Jamil (EMC, private sector) (10 min) 
>> - Open debate (20 min) 
>> 
>> 10:45-11:00 Coffee Break 
>> 
>> 11:00 – 12:30 *Round-table 2: The "NETmundial multistakeholder statement" * 
>> 
>> This session will debate the construction of "NETmundial Multistakeholder Statement". While describing the specific sessions of the outcome document, panelists will present their assessment of the principles and roadmap agreed during the meeting, the participacion of the HLMC (High-Level Multistakeholder Commitee) and how these can influence Internet Governance. In particular, the round-table will discuss the NETmundial recommendations for improvement of the IGF. 
>> 
>> - Ambassador Benedicto Fonseca Filho (Ministry of External Relations Brazil): Overall description of the NETmundial outcome document – principles and roadmap (10 min) 
>> - Mr. Vinay Kwatra (Ministry of External Affairs India): The view of the Government of India (10 min) 
>> - Ms. Kathy Brown (President – Internet Society): The assessment of ISOC (10 min) 
>> - Ms. Jeanette Hofmann (Member of the HLMC): The role of the HMC (10 min) 
>> - Mr. Joseph Alhadeff (Representative from the private sector at the HLMC) The role of the HLMC (10 min) 
>> - Mr. Alan Marcus (WEF), Mr. Fadi Chehade (ICANN) and Mr. Janis Karklins (Ambassador of Latvia, Chair of the IGF MAG) about NETmundial Initiative (10 min each) 
>> - Open Debate (10 min) 
>> 
>> 12:30-13:30Â  Lunch Break/ 
>> 
>> ===Afternoon===
>> 
>> 13:30 - 14:30 *Achieving bottom-up and multistakeholder outcomes from global IG policy discussions:Â  Extracting lessons from NETmundial* 
>> Presentation of the results of the research initiative conducted by CTS/FGV, APC and Diplo, including a survey of NETmundial participants 
>> Speakers: Marilia Maciel, Vladimir Radunovic, Renato Leite, Deborah Brown 
>> Moderators: Carlos Afonso 
>> 
>> 14:30-16:00 *Book launch— **Beyond NETmundial: The Roadmap for Institutional Improvements to the Global Internet Governance Ecosystem* (organized by the Internet Policy Observatory, Annenberg School of Communication, University of Pennsylvania) 
>> Introduction: Monroe Price  (IPO) 
>> Moderator: William J. Drake  (U. Zurich) 
>> Speakers: Jeremy Malcolm  (EFF) ; Markus Kummer (Internet Society) ; Lea Kaspar (Global Partners Digital) ; Anriette Esterhuysen (APC) ; Carlos Affonso Pereira de Souza (ITS) ; Emma Llansó  and Matt Shears (CDT) ; Wolfgang Kleinwächter  (U. Aarhus) 
>> 
>> 16:00-16:15Â  Coffee Break 
>> 
>> 16:15-17:15 *Open moderated dialogue on the NETmundial Initiative and operationalizing the NETmundial principles and roadmap* (organized by APC, CTS/FGV, CGI.br and Diplo and supported by the IDRC) 
>> Moderator: Anriette Esterhuysen and Raul Echeberría 
>> 
>> 17:15-18:15 *Open moderated dialogue on strengthening the IGF* (organized by APC, CTS/FGV CGI.br, and Diplo) 
>> Moderators: Anja Kovacs and Markus Kummer 
>> 
>> Resource people for the open dialogues: 
>> 
>> Jandyr Ferreira 
>> Flávio Wagner 
>> Fernando Perini 
>> Anja Kovacs 
>> Henrique Faulhaber 
>> Valeria Betancourt 
>> Carlos Affonso Pereira de Souza 
>> Avri Doria 
>> Alice Munyua 
>> Ayesha Hassan 
>> Vladimir Radunovic 
>> 
>> NOTE: Resource persons may be called upon by the moderator(s) to provide a reflection on a specific discussion thread. 
>> 
>> 18:15-18:45 *Summary of the Day and linkages to the IGF program* 
>> 
>> Comments: Anriette Esterhuysen, Marilia Maciel, Carlos Afonso, Vladimir Radunovic, Raul Echeberría, Markus Kummer 
>> Moderator: Bill Drake
>> 
>> 
>> <Attached Message Part>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     bestbits at lists.bestbits.net.
>> To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:
>>     http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     bestbits at lists.bestbits.net.
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***********************************************
William J. Drake
International Fellow & Lecturer
  Media Change & Innovation Division, IPMZ
  University of Zurich, Switzerland
Chair, Noncommercial Users Constituency, 
  ICANN, www.ncuc.org
william.drake at uzh.ch (direct), wjdrake at gmail.com (lists),
  www.williamdrake.org
***********************************************

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From anriette at apc.org  Fri Aug 29 05:57:17 2014
From: anriette at apc.org (Anriette Esterhuysen)
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2014 11:57:17 +0200
Subject: [governance] APC priorities for IGF 2014
Message-ID: <54004E7D.1050904@apc.org>

Attached.

Anriette

-- 
`````````````````````````````````
anriette esterhuysen
executive director
association for progressive communications
po box 29755, melville, 2109, south africa
anriette at apc.org
www.apc.org

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From jac at apcwomen.org  Fri Aug 29 06:35:28 2014
From: jac at apcwomen.org (Jac sm Kee)
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2014 18:35:28 +0800
Subject: [governance] Dynamic Coalition on Gender and Internet Governance -
 Day 1, 9am
In-Reply-To: <CAP5RF7Gyh4FwxnQ1JmPj3w+pffrZs+=HCLqyzjNQ_9rBqS8kqw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP5RF7Gyh4FwxnQ1JmPj3w+pffrZs+=HCLqyzjNQ_9rBqS8kqw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54005770.7020802@apcwomen.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


Extending the invitation to join us at the Gender DC

jac

- -------- Original Message --------


Hello friends,

We invite you to join us for the Gender Dynamic Coalition workshop on
Day 1, 9am. Here's the link to the workshop and speakers:

http://igf2014.sched.org/event/ea10f2f79e6fa88367379d0feca17060#.U_2ydLySzVs

We're excited, in particular, about launching a set of Feminist
Principles of the Internet - which is a document we drafted together
with 50 women's rights and internet rights activists in a meeting
earlier this year.

We look forward to your participation and feedback. Please spread the
word to gender advocates and sexual rights activists.

Thanks,
Nadz

- -- 
Nadine Moawad
EROTICS Coordinator, APC
Beirut, Lebanon
www.apc.org <http://www.apc.org/> | erotics.apc.org
<http://erotics.apc.org/>
Skype: nadine.moawad | Twitter: @nmoawad <http://www.twitter.com/nmoawad>


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From mueller at syr.edu  Fri Aug 29 10:50:00 2014
From: mueller at syr.edu (Milton L Mueller)
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2014 14:50:00 +0000
Subject: [governance] APC priorities for IGF 2014
In-Reply-To: <54004E7D.1050904@apc.org>
References: <54004E7D.1050904@apc.org>
Message-ID: <ebd9f2d0c0254f2c9d4d575da45e6cac@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>

Anriette
On the whole it is an impressive document, and shows that APC is taking laudable initiatives on a number of fronts.
I was astounded however by the document’s complete lack of familiarity with the ongoing discussion of the IANA transition.
Specifically, your document writes:

Completing the plan to bring The Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA)
functions under Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) as
originally documented in the White Paper is an advisable and overdue milestone

One of the key issues here is WHETHER IANA will remain in ICANN or be structurally separated. Typically, only ICANN staff, board members and others with an organizational self-interest in retaining control of IANA view the transition as a simple matter of “bring[ing] the IANA functions under ICANN…”
Has APC actually come up with a deliberate position on this, and if so on what basis? Have you bothered to read any of the discussions of this topic coming from IGP, ccTLD operators, gTLDs, registrars? Are you unaware of the accountability issue raised by the status of IANA?

Milton L Mueller
Laura J and L. Douglas Meredith Professor
Syracuse University School of Information Studies
http://faculty.ischool.syr.edu/mueller/


From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Anriette Esterhuysen
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2014 5:57 AM
To: bestbits at lists.bestbits.net; governance at lists.igcaucus.org
Subject: [governance] APC priorities for IGF 2014

Attached.

Anriette



--

`````````````````````````````````

anriette esterhuysen

executive director

association for progressive communications

po box 29755, melville, 2109, south africa

anriette at apc.org<mailto:anriette at apc.org>

www.apc.org<http://www.apc.org>
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From anriette at apc.org  Fri Aug 29 11:45:09 2014
From: anriette at apc.org (Anriette Esterhuysen)
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2014 17:45:09 +0200
Subject: [governance] APC priorities for IGF 2014
In-Reply-To: <ebd9f2d0c0254f2c9d4d575da45e6cac@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
References: <54004E7D.1050904@apc.org> <ebd9f2d0c0254f2c9d4d575da45e6cac@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <5400A005.8070106@apc.org>

Dear Milton

Thanks so much for the heads up on this! 

We quoted from the original submission on this by Avri - made to
NETmundial online - which we supported. We should have udpated it. You
are quite right in raising concerns.

We are working right now with Avri to update that part of the document
to reflect recent discussions. We will change the online version.

Anriette


On 29/08/2014 16:50, Milton L Mueller wrote:
>
> Anriette
>
> On the whole it is an impressive document, and shows that APC is
> taking laudable initiatives on a number of fronts.
>
> I was astounded however by the document’s complete lack of familiarity
> with the ongoing discussion of the IANA transition.
>
> Specifically, your document writes:
>
>  
>
> Completing the plan to bring The Internet Assigned Numbers Authority
> (IANA)
>
> functions under Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
> (ICANN) as
>
> originally documented in the White Paper is an advisable and overdue
> milestone
>
>  
>
> One of the key issues here is WHETHER IANA will remain in ICANN or be
> structurally separated. Typically, only ICANN staff, board members and
> others with an organizational self-interest in retaining control of
> IANA view the transition as a simple matter of “bring[ing] the IANA
> functions under ICANN…”
>
> Has APC actually come up with a deliberate position on this, and if so
> on what basis? Have you bothered to read any of the discussions of
> this topic coming from IGP, ccTLD operators, gTLDs, registrars? Are
> you unaware of the accountability issue raised by the status of IANA?
>
>  
>
> Milton L Mueller
>
> Laura J and L. Douglas Meredith Professor
>
> Syracuse University School of Information Studies
>
> http://faculty.ischool.syr.edu/mueller/
>
>  
>
>  
>
> *From:*governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
> [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] *On Behalf Of *Anriette
> Esterhuysen
> *Sent:* Friday, August 29, 2014 5:57 AM
> *To:* bestbits at lists.bestbits.net; governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> *Subject:* [governance] APC priorities for IGF 2014
>
>  
>
> Attached.
>
> Anriette
>
>
> -- 
> `````````````````````````````````
> anriette esterhuysen
> executive director
> association for progressive communications
> po box 29755, melville, 2109, south africa
> anriette at apc.org <mailto:anriette at apc.org>
> www.apc.org <http://www.apc.org>

-- 
`````````````````````````````````
anriette esterhuysen
executive director
association for progressive communications
po box 29755, melville, 2109, south africa
anriette at apc.org
www.apc.org

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From anriette at apc.org  Fri Aug 29 12:05:23 2014
From: anriette at apc.org (Anriette Esterhuysen)
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2014 18:05:23 +0200
Subject: [governance] APC priorities for IGF 2014
In-Reply-To: <5400A005.8070106@apc.org>
References: <54004E7D.1050904@apc.org> <ebd9f2d0c0254f2c9d4d575da45e6cac@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu> <5400A005.8070106@apc.org>
Message-ID: <5400A4C3.2010506@apc.org>

I checked in with Avri who helps us with this and here is the updated
text. Thanks again Milton.

Anriette



In March 2014, the U.S. Commerce Department’s National
Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA) made an
historic announcement of its “intent to transition key internet domain
name functions to the global multistakeholder community.” This
development has triggered a process to identify a new system to replace
NTIA’s “historic steward” of the DNS (internet domain name system),
which has been cause for concern and debate among governments and other
stakeholders for more than a decade.

We applaud the progress made in establishing the IANA Stewardship
Coordination Group (ICG). We remain concerned about the accountability
of ICANN and look forward to a genuine process of review and improvement
by ICANN of its accountability to the global community. We are concerned
that the ICG is focusing too much on the individual operational
communities and not paying attention to any cross cutting IANA
transition issues. While improvements in ICANN accountability are
necessary, the goals of separation of policy and operation
responsibility mean that IANA accountability needs to be dealt with as a
separate issue by the ICG.


On 29/08/2014 17:45, Anriette Esterhuysen wrote:
> Dear Milton
>
> Thanks so much for the heads up on this! 
>
> We quoted from the original submission on this by Avri - made to
> NETmundial online - which we supported. We should have udpated it. You
> are quite right in raising concerns.
>
> We are working right now with Avri to update that part of the document
> to reflect recent discussions. We will change the online version.
>
> Anriette
>
>
> On 29/08/2014 16:50, Milton L Mueller wrote:
>>
>> Anriette
>>
>> On the whole it is an impressive document, and shows that APC is
>> taking laudable initiatives on a number of fronts.
>>
>> I was astounded however by the document’s complete lack of
>> familiarity with the ongoing discussion of the IANA transition.
>>
>> Specifically, your document writes:
>>
>>  
>>
>> Completing the plan to bring The Internet Assigned Numbers Authority
>> (IANA)
>>
>> functions under Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
>> (ICANN) as
>>
>> originally documented in the White Paper is an advisable and overdue
>> milestone
>>
>>  
>>
>> One of the key issues here is WHETHER IANA will remain in ICANN or be
>> structurally separated. Typically, only ICANN staff, board members
>> and others with an organizational self-interest in retaining control
>> of IANA view the transition as a simple matter of “bring[ing] the
>> IANA functions under ICANN…”
>>
>> Has APC actually come up with a deliberate position on this, and if
>> so on what basis? Have you bothered to read any of the discussions of
>> this topic coming from IGP, ccTLD operators, gTLDs, registrars? Are
>> you unaware of the accountability issue raised by the status of IANA?
>>
>>  
>>
>> Milton L Mueller
>>
>> Laura J and L. Douglas Meredith Professor
>>
>> Syracuse University School of Information Studies
>>
>> http://faculty.ischool.syr.edu/mueller/
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>> *From:*governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
>> [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] *On Behalf Of
>> *Anriette Esterhuysen
>> *Sent:* Friday, August 29, 2014 5:57 AM
>> *To:* bestbits at lists.bestbits.net; governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> *Subject:* [governance] APC priorities for IGF 2014
>>
>>  
>>
>> Attached.
>>
>> Anriette
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> `````````````````````````````````
>> anriette esterhuysen
>> executive director
>> association for progressive communications
>> po box 29755, melville, 2109, south africa
>> anriette at apc.org <mailto:anriette at apc.org>
>> www.apc.org <http://www.apc.org>
>
> -- 
> `````````````````````````````````
> anriette esterhuysen
> executive director
> association for progressive communications
> po box 29755, melville, 2109, south africa
> anriette at apc.org
> www.apc.org

-- 
`````````````````````````````````
anriette esterhuysen
executive director
association for progressive communications
po box 29755, melville, 2109, south africa
anriette at apc.org
www.apc.org

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From fatimacambronero at gmail.com  Fri Aug 29 13:02:19 2014
From: fatimacambronero at gmail.com (Fatima Cambronero)
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2014 14:02:19 -0300
Subject: [governance] Invitation to participate in the Orientation Session
 IGF 2014
Message-ID: <CAHY4F=zwfpCYoE-3ghgiF=oTxokbg41UvtGce27tFQzkdmM7fg@mail.gmail.com>

*(Apologies for cross posting)*

Dear All,



You are invited to participate in the IGF 2014 Orientation Session to be
held on Day 1 -September, 2, from 9:30 to 11:00 in the Main Meeting Hall.


More information here:
http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/main-focus-sessions/1914-orientation-session


And here:
http://igf2014.sched.org/event/3e99b7802e37508efae856e6df2e2e6e#.VACkN2NPwix


Orientation sessions are intended for both newcomers to the IGF and those
who are already involved but would need to get a more holistic view of
Internet governance. It gathers experts, fellows, decision-makers and
practitioners to engage meaningfully by discussing actors and topics
related to Internet governance. The session will be interactive, educative,
inclusive, at the same time creative and fun, it will be open but also
guided in order to be effective.


We will be discussing several issues like the history of WSIS and IGF and
mandate of the IGF; the role of the diplomacy in the global Internet
governance; the main IG-related process and actors involved; how to
navigate the IGF to get the best out of it and for it; how to stay involved
with the IGF and IG process beyond IGF2014, among others interesting topics.


We will have among the panelists members of the IGF Secretariat, MAG
members, regional and global leaders on Internet governance issues, IGFers
experienced from governments, academia, civil society, private sector and
technical community.


Please join us and share your questions, experiences and comments to build
together the best IGF for all of us!


Best Regards,

Fatima, on behalf of the MAG Capacity Building track

-- 
*Fatima Cambronero*
Abogada-Argentina

Phone: +54 9351 5282 668
Twitter: @facambronero
Skype: fatima.cambronero
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From mueller at syr.edu  Fri Aug 29 14:45:41 2014
From: mueller at syr.edu (Milton L Mueller)
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2014 18:45:41 +0000
Subject: [governance] APC priorities for IGF 2014
In-Reply-To: <5400A4C3.2010506@apc.org>
References: <54004E7D.1050904@apc.org>
 <ebd9f2d0c0254f2c9d4d575da45e6cac@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
 <5400A005.8070106@apc.org> <5400A4C3.2010506@apc.org>
Message-ID: <42daa3689df54b5887453ea7bf808034@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>

Much better.
As Avri knows I support the breakdown of the transition process to distribute control over proposals to the three distinct operational communities. Although we disagree about the best way to handle ICANN/IANA accountability, your updated statement at least takes a reform-oriented, progressive perspective on the transition and makes a coherent agument for its approach.

Milton L Mueller
Laura J and L. Douglas Meredith Professor
Syracuse University School of Information Studies
http://faculty.ischool.syr.edu/mueller/


From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Anriette Esterhuysen
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2014 12:05 PM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
Subject: Re: [governance] APC priorities for IGF 2014

I checked in with Avri who helps us with this and here is the updated text. Thanks again Milton.

Anriette



In March 2014, the U.S. Commerce Department’s National Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA) made an historic announcement of its “intent to transition key internet domain name functions to the global multistakeholder community.” This development has triggered a process to identify a new system to replace NTIA’s “historic steward” of the DNS (internet domain name system), which has been cause for concern and debate among governments and other stakeholders for more than a decade.

We applaud the progress made in establishing the IANA Stewardship Coordination Group (ICG). We remain concerned about the accountability of ICANN and look forward to a genuine process of review and improvement by ICANN of its accountability to the global community. We are concerned that the ICG is focusing too much on the individual operational communities and not paying attention to any cross cutting IANA transition issues. While improvements in ICANN accountability are necessary, the goals of separation of policy and operation responsibility mean that IANA accountability needs to be dealt with as a separate issue by the ICG.

On 29/08/2014 17:45, Anriette Esterhuysen wrote:
Dear Milton

Thanks so much for the heads up on this!

We quoted from the original submission on this by Avri - made to NETmundial online - which we supported. We should have udpated it. You are quite right in raising concerns.

We are working right now with Avri to update that part of the document to reflect recent discussions. We will change the online version.

Anriette

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From wjdrake at gmail.com  Sat Aug 30 01:04:25 2014
From: wjdrake at gmail.com (William Drake)
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2014 07:04:25 +0200
Subject: [governance] Beyond NETmundial e-book released
Message-ID: <41EF2DE2-254F-4A26-962E-6D0FD7332F44@gmail.com>

Hello

Apologies in advance if you receive this notice from more than one list, but in case anyone is coming to the IGF and wants some reading for the plane, I thought I would share the below.

On Day 0, Monday 1 September, a group of partners have organized an event called, NETmundial: Looking Back, Learning Lessons and Mapping the Road Ahead.  http://sched.co/1r7K8s3  It will run from 9:00 - 18:30 in Workshop Room 02 (Rumeli Ground Floor / Room B2), and the IGF Secretariat informed me yesterday that remote participation will be available via the IGF website, albeit in “test mode.”  

As part of this event, from 14:30-16:00 there will be an e-“book” launch of a project I coordinated.  Authors who will be speaking will include myself and Jeremy Malcolm  (EFF), Markus Kummer (Internet Society), Anriette Esterhuysen (APC), Carlos Affonso Pereira de Souza (ITS), Emma Llansó  and Matt Shears (CDT), Wolfgang Kleinwächter  (U. Aarhus), and perhaps one or two others.

In advance of the launch discussion, the book has been released today.  Please see the announcement below.  We hope you find the material useful.

Best,

Bill
 
 
Beyond NETmundial: The Roadmap for Institutional Improvements to the Global Internet Governance Ecosystem explores options for the implementation of a key section of the “NETmundial Multistakeholder Statement” that was adopted at the Global Meeting on the Future of Internet Governance (NETmundial) held on April 23rd and 24th 2014 in São Paulo, Brazil. The Roadmap section of the statement concisely sets out a series of proposed enhancements to existing mechanisms for global internet governance, as well as suggestions of possible new initiatives that the global community may wish to consider. The sixteen chapters by leading practitioners and scholars are grouped into six sections: The NETmundial Meeting; Strengthening the Internet Governance Forum; Filling the Gaps; Improving ICANN; Broader Analytical Perspectives; and Moving Forward.
 
The book was produced as a part of the Internet Policy Observatory, a program at the Center for Global Communication Studies (http://www.global.asc.upenn.edu/), the Annenberg School for Communication at the University of Pennsylvania. It was edited by William J. Drake of the University of Zurich and Monroe Price of the Annenberg School for Communication. They were assisted by Laura Schwartz-Henderson, Briar Smith, and Alexandra Esenler.
 
You can view the publication here: http://www.global.asc.upenn.edu/app/uploads/2014/08/BeyondNETmundial_FINAL.pdf
 


***********************************************
William J. Drake
International Fellow & Lecturer
  Media Change & Innovation Division, IPMZ
  University of Zurich, Switzerland
Chair, Noncommercial Users Constituency, 
  ICANN, www.ncuc.org
william.drake at uzh.ch (direct), wjdrake at gmail.com (lists),
  www.williamdrake.org
***********************************************
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From sana.pryhod at gmail.com  Sat Aug 30 02:50:32 2014
From: sana.pryhod at gmail.com (Oksana Prykhodko)
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2014 09:50:32 +0300
Subject: [governance] Beyond NETmundial e-book released
In-Reply-To: <41EF2DE2-254F-4A26-962E-6D0FD7332F44@gmail.com>
References: <41EF2DE2-254F-4A26-962E-6D0FD7332F44@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+C8XCL0km6EVzFswFixdxP0WaOxvrEBWQWbLFmrkjc+wSQDVA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Bill,
Are you going to share paper version of this book?

If yes, please keep over copy for me.

Thank you very much in advance,
Best regards,
Oksana


On Saturday, August 30, 2014, William Drake <wjdrake at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello
> Apologies in advance if you receive this notice from more than one list,
but in case anyone is coming to the IGF and wants some reading for the
plane, I thought I would share the below.
> On Day 0, Monday 1 September, a group of partners have organized an event
called, NETmundial: Looking Back, Learning Lessons and Mapping the Road
Ahead.  http://sched.co/1r7K8s3  It will run from 9:00 - 18:30 in Workshop
Room 02 (Rumeli Ground Floor / Room B2), and the IGF Secretariat informed
me yesterday that remote participation will be available via the IGF
website, albeit in “test mode.”
> As part of this event, from 14:30-16:00 there will be an e-“book” launch
of a project I coordinated.  Authors who will be speaking will include
myself and Jeremy Malcolm  (EFF), Markus Kummer (Internet Society),
Anriette Esterhuysen (APC), Carlos Affonso Pereira de Souza (ITS), Emma
Llansó  and Matt Shears (CDT), Wolfgang Kleinwächter  (U. Aarhus), and
perhaps one or two others.
> In advance of the launch discussion, the book has been released today.
 Please see the announcement below.  We hope you find the material useful.
> Best,
> Bill
>
>
> Beyond NETmundial: The Roadmap for Institutional Improvements to the
Global Internet Governance Ecosystem explores options for the
implementation of a key section of the “NETmundial Multistakeholder
Statement” that was adopted at the Global Meeting on the Future of Internet
Governance (NETmundial) held on April 23rd and 24th 2014 in São Paulo,
Brazil. The Roadmap section of the statement concisely sets out a series of
proposed enhancements to existing mechanisms for global internet
governance, as well as suggestions of possible new initiatives that the
global community may wish to consider. The sixteen chapters by leading
practitioners and scholars are grouped into six sections: The NETmundial
Meeting; Strengthening the Internet Governance Forum; Filling the Gaps;
Improving ICANN; Broader Analytical Perspectives; and Moving Forward.
>
> The book was produced as a part of the Internet Policy Observatory, a
program at the Center for Global Communication Studies (
http://www.global.asc.upenn.edu/), the Annenberg School for Communication
at the University of Pennsylvania. It was edited by William J. Drake of the
University of Zurich and Monroe Price of the Annenberg School for
Communication. They were assisted by Laura Schwartz-Henderson, Briar Smith,
and Alexandra Esenler.
>
> You can view the publication here:
http://www.global.asc.upenn.edu/app/uploads/2014/08/BeyondNETmundial_FINAL.pdf
>
>
> ***********************************************
> William J. Drake
> International Fellow & Lecturer
>   Media Change & Innovation Division, IPMZ
>   University of Zurich, Switzerland
> Chair, Noncommercial Users Constituency,
>   ICANN, www.ncuc.org
> william.drake at uzh.ch (direct), wjdrake at gmail.com (lists),
>   www.williamdrake.org
> ***********************************************
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From pouzin at well.com  Sat Aug 30 06:30:42 2014
From: pouzin at well.com (Louis Pouzin (well))
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2014 12:30:42 +0200
Subject: [governance] Beyond NETmundial e-book released
In-Reply-To: <41EF2DE2-254F-4A26-962E-6D0FD7332F44@gmail.com>
References: <41EF2DE2-254F-4A26-962E-6D0FD7332F44@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+EjHYpB8W_bjB751grkwsr+tQC5V1VsjB25djLnSD7_ZUHGoA@mail.gmail.com>

n Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 7:04 AM, William Drake <wjdrake at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello
>
> Apologies in advance if you receive this notice from more than one list,
> but in case anyone is coming to the IGF and wants some reading for the
> plane, I thought I would share the below.
>
> On Day 0, Monday 1 September, a group of partners have organized an event
> called, *NETmundial: Looking Back, Learning Lessons and Mapping the Road
> Ahead. * http://sched.co/1r7K8s3  It will run from 9:00 - 18:30
> in Workshop Room 02 (Rumeli Ground Floor / Room B2), and the IGF
> Secretariat informed me yesterday that remote participation will be
> available via the IGF website, albeit in "test mode."
>
> As part of this event, from 14:30-16:00 there will be an e-"book" launch
> of a project I coordinated.  Authors who will be speaking will include
> myself and Jeremy Malcolm  (EFF), Markus Kummer (Internet Society),
> Anriette Esterhuysen (APC), Carlos Affonso Pereira de Souza (ITS), Emma
> Llansó  and Matt Shears (CDT), Wolfgang Kleinwächter  (U. Aarhus), and
> perhaps one or two others.
>
> In advance of the launch discussion, the book has been released today.
>  Please see the announcement below.  We hope you find the material useful.
>
> Best,
>
> Bill
>
> *Beyond NETmundial: The Roadmap for Institutional Improvements to the
> Global Internet Governance Ecosystem* explores options for the
> implementation of a key section of the "NETmundial Multistakeholder
> Statement" that was adopted at the Global Meeting on the Future of Internet
> Governance (NETmundial) held on April 23rd and 24th 2014 in São Paulo,
> Brazil.
>

The term *"adopted"* caught my eye. *Adopted by whom ?*
Louis
- - -
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From joana at varonferraz.com  Sat Aug 30 10:18:27 2014
From: joana at varonferraz.com (Joana Varon)
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2014 11:18:27 -0300
Subject: [governance] Latin america in a glimpse: Human Rights and the
 internet (IGF 2014)
Message-ID: <CALTAiTpmMH_e+VL8gTZDf7fhCcWXXU76mTc2eUJMcTsn+BsYQA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,

Sorry for eventual cross-posting. I'm happy to share the briefing: *Latin
america in a glimpse: Human Rights and the internet,*
<https://www.derechosdigitales.org/wp-content/uploads/igf_2014.pdf>*, which
is *a summary about the status of the debate in some fields of digital
rights in LatAm.

Our goal was particularly increase the understanding of the region within
the international community that will gather durign the IGF2014.

It was an initiative by ONG Derechos Digitales, in partnership with the
Communications and Information Policy Programme of the Association for
Progressive Communications (APC), and myself :)

I hope you enjoy. The document is CC:BY licensed, so please be free to
spread it out!

best

joana


-- 
-- 

Joana Varon Ferraz
@joana_varon
PGP 0x016B8E73
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From pouzin at well.com  Sat Aug 30 10:35:20 2014
From: pouzin at well.com (Louis Pouzin (well))
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2014 16:35:20 +0200
Subject: [governance] APC priorities for IGF 2014
In-Reply-To: <5400A4C3.2010506@apc.org>
References: <54004E7D.1050904@apc.org> <ebd9f2d0c0254f2c9d4d575da45e6cac@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
 <5400A005.8070106@apc.org> <5400A4C3.2010506@apc.org>
Message-ID: <CA+EjHYqGDhhcvOFRQuz2s1_u3U2tRUFxWWb8OZ9=5beir=sz3w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Anriette,

Your report is highly relevant. There is no need to worry about the
playground of the IANA transition. It's quite clear that it is a
diversion to smoke out the gist of the guile. The USG is determined to
keep unilateral control of the net via ICANN. Only national
counteractions may somehow limit this hegemonic and totalitarian
strategy.

Louis
- - -

On 8/29/14, Anriette Esterhuysen <anriette at apc.org> wrote:
> I checked in with Avri who helps us with this and here is the updated
> text. Thanks again Milton.
>
> Anriette

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From tracyhackshaw at gmail.com  Sat Aug 30 16:41:57 2014
From: tracyhackshaw at gmail.com (Tracy F. Hackshaw @ Google)
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2014 16:41:57 -0400
Subject: [governance] Invitation to attend IGF 2014 Small Island Developing
 States Roundtable
Message-ID: <CAC0JwGNV8M=c1erGKQecTz6KKtOShqtb9E9bzfJu9BOK4gfRKA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello colleagues,

(Apologies for cross-posting)

Please accept this invitation to attend the 2014 Small Island Developing
States (SIDS) Roundtable being held at the 2014 Internet Governance Forum
in Istanbul, Turkey as follows:

Tuesday September 2, 2014 9:00am - 10:30am (Istanbul time)
Workshop Room 09 (Rumeli -1 Floor / Room 6)
<http://igf2014.sched.org/venue/Workshop+Room+09+%28Rumeli+-1+Floor+%2F+Room+6%29>
   Internet as an Engine for Growth & Development
<http://igf2014.sched.org/type/internet+as+an+engine+for+growth+%26+development>
, Roundtable
<http://igf2014.sched.org/type/internet+as+an+engine+for+growth+%26+development/roundtable>

   - *Host Organization* Tracy Hackshaw Technical Community Internet
   Society Trinidad and Tobago Chapter Patrick Hosein Technical Community
   Trinidad & Tobago Network Information Centre (TTNIC)
   <http://igf2014.sched.org/host_org/Tracy+Hackshaw+Technical+Community+Internet+Society+Trinidad+and+Tobago+Chapter+Patrick+Hosein+Technical+Community+Trinidad+%26+Tobago+Network+Information+Centre+%28TTNIC%29>
   - *Tags* #ICT4D #Development #Infrastructure
   <http://igf2014.sched.org/tag/%23ICT4D+%23Development+%23Infrastructure>


The topic for discussion at this year's Roundtable is: *Do the elements
required to promote the Information Society/Knowledge Economy complement
"basic" infrastructural development needs?*

Links to the Roundtable details are as follows:

http://igf2014.sched.org/event/e918bb3602cb478dd7c195869035a060#.VAI06_BX-ub

http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/wks2014/index.php/proposal/view_public/68

I look forward to seeing you there, whether in person, or remotely!


---

Best Regards,

Tracy F. Hackshaw | T&T Mobile: +1 868 678 8710 | US/Google Voice: +1 786
273 9344 | tracyhackshaw at gmail.com | www.OurFutureisNow.info
<http://www.ourfutureisnow.info/> |

Skype: hackshawt / tracyhackshaw at hotmail.com | Google: tracyhackshaw |
Yahoo: tracyhackshaw |

----------------------------

Social Footprint

Google Me: http://goo.gl/p4xs6 | Google+: http://plus.ly/tracy | Google
Profile: http://goo.gl/8j2xk | LinkedIn:
http://www.linkedin.com/in/tracyhackshaw | Quora:
http://www.quora.com/Tracy-Hackshaw |  Twitter: @thackshaw
<http://twitter.com/#!/@thackshaw> | facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/tracyhackshaw | Storify:
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From anriette at apc.org  Sun Aug 31 05:28:04 2014
From: anriette at apc.org (Anriette Esterhuysen)
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 11:28:04 +0200
Subject: [governance] IGF 2014 HLM
In-Reply-To: <004301cfc4f2$79d389f0$6d7a9dd0$@unog.ch>
References: <004301cfc4f2$79d389f0$6d7a9dd0$@unog.ch>
Message-ID: <5402EAA4.3030609@apc.org>

Dear all

Note that the High Level Leaders meeting will apparently be open to all.

Anriette




-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: 	[IGFmaglist] HLM
Date: 	Sun, 31 Aug 2014 11:06:29 +0300
From: 	Chengetai Masango <cmasango at unog.ch>
Reply-To: 	cmasango at unog.ch
Organization: 	IGF Secretariat
To: 	'MAG-public' <Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org>



Dear All,

 

Please note that the High Level Meeting on Monday is open to all
interested individuals.

 

Best regards,

 

Chengetai

 

 

 

 

 



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_______________________________________________
Igfmaglist mailing list
Igfmaglist at intgovforum.org
http://intgovforum.org/mailman/listinfo/igfmaglist_intgovforum.org

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From gurstein at gmail.com  Sun Aug 31 09:09:48 2014
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 06:09:48 -0700
Subject: [governance] A Two-Faced Friendship: Turkey Is 'Partner and Target'
 for the NSA
Message-ID: <003c01cfc51c$d7e37d00$87aa7700$@gmail.com>

Perhaps of interest to some (via Renata Avila…

 

http://www.spiegel.de/international/documents-show-nsa-and-gchq-spied-on-partner-turkey-a-989011.html


 

Just published. 

 

-- 

Renata Avila 
Global Campaign Lead, Web We Want <https://webwewant.org/> 
Human Rights - Intellectual Property Lawyer

+44 2032897004 (UK)

World Wide Web Foundation | 1110 Vermont Ave NW, Suite 500, Washington D.C. 20005 USA |  <http://www.webfoundation.org/> www.webfoundation.org | Twitter: @webfoundation

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From kichango at gmail.com  Sun Aug 31 15:24:05 2014
From: kichango at gmail.com (Mawaki Chango)
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 19:24:05 +0000
Subject: [governance] Inquiry for a new vision into the future of IGC -
 Summary of the online discussion outcome
Message-ID: <CACTo+v8UZpRG=1Dyqk+XYuqmPp8CCgQ7tDod3iRi1T=MJgFLgw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,

Between June 26 and 30, we had here a discussion running by the following
subject line:
Inquiry for a new vision into the future of IGC
Following is the summary of the main points I got from
your contributions to this discussion
[adding my summary notes, observations/comments in square brackets].

Suggestions include:

-
H
olding a face to face workshop, accommodating remote participation, on the
topic at Istanbul IGF

[This will be taking place at IGF 2014 this
Friday, 5 September, 12.30 - 14.00 is Bilateral Room 1 (Rumeli -1 Level /
Room 9).

-
C
ontemplating the possibility of national or regional chapters for IGC
[Make sure this not be confused with IGFs at the base. One thing for sure
is that IGC is meant to embody the CS component while IGF for all
stakeholders.]

-
N
eed for mutual respect between participants
[D
ifferences in positions should be aired with the predicate that no matter
how strong
we feel
about being right, contradicting positions may still be
both
valid under
different
 circumstances or with different assumptions than our
own
(and sure we all have assumptions!)
]


-
A
 minimum level of decorum or "netiquette" to ensure it is safe for
everybody to participate
[It's critical to make it comfortable for people to participate
whatever their level of familiarity
(or unfamiliarity)
with the issues,
their level of
knowledge or

self-confidence
(or lack thereof)
as regards the relevance of their contribution.
]

-
E
nabling and fostering trust
[M
aybe a number of basic principles
and ideas
should be spelled out here (
including for possible
charter
revision
?)
as to how to achieve that and
ensure a
baseline in expectations with regard to
our respective and mutual commitments. This might be the place to consider
the question of 'conflict of interests' policy for those in leadership
position, if relevant.]

-  IGC still provides a space to aggregate many of the differing views that
"civil society" holds about Internet governance.

-
IGC should engage in Social
C
apacity building
in
 I
G and
related activism

"
People need to be educated through any extensive
[as well as extension]
program in various level of literacy and knowledge regarding their
vulnerability
" in the face of the d
evelopment
of the cyber-environment
.
"
People needs to be educated and know how to participate in procedure of
governance and how to share their concerns. I believe, it would be great,
if IGC opens a chapter for educating people in this area.
"

-
IGC should engage in (enabling)
Customer protection
based on
 Human rights, multilingualism
, regional/
cultural diversity
: Seek best practices in the field of customer protection and help empower
end-users.
-
W
e absolutely need a credible broadly accepted civil society coordination
entity

[This is being taken care of through the newly set up Civil Society
Coordination Group, CSCG]

-
R
eform is needed to enable
such entity

with
 reasonable and reasonably fast decision-making
with
regard to all the decisions that need to be made in the context of a civil
society coordination function

[In process with the CSCG]

- Criticism or fear was raised with the notion that the CSCG might be
exclusionary or the fact that it is so far perceived by some as such.
[This might be addressed through the operating procedures to be developed
by the CSCG]

- "
The alternative
[to CSCG in coordinating CS appointments]
would be IGC. However that would require a few changes so that IGC could
respond more promptly, and also for the role and processes of IGC in doing
this to be acceptable to the myriad parties who in the past few years have
forwarded their own civil society MAG nominations. Quite clearly some
substantial groups within IGC have not been happy for IGC to do this on
their behalf in the past few years, thus leading to them making their own
nominations.
"

[Please note that the CSCG is not meant to develop policies or submit
policy positions on behalf of its members' constituents. So the question
remains: How can we as IGC get there from here?]

- "a
s regards the broader question of policy statements and policy co
ordination - I do not think CSCG is a good vehicle for this.  IGC is
potentially, but there has been difficulty in getting consensus positions
here in the past, which led to the creation of Best Bits (where sign on
statements not acceptable to 100% of civil society became a useful tool)
and later to Just Net Coalition. Where there is potentially a broader
consensus, I think IGC can play a very useful role, providing it continues
to enjoy strong support from all groups.
"

- In the discussion it was also noted that "
IGC is the big tent for Internet governance geeks of all persuasions
...
who will never agree on much
."

Now questions:
- How do we get there from here?
- Is there any remedy to this (the fact that IGC cab "never agree on much")
beyond the above points for improvements? Or are these points sufficient?
- How can we detect and handle cases where there is a potential for broader
consensus?
- Where there is not such potential how do we deal with the coordination of
policy positions and making policy statements? Shall we create some sort of
internal Dynamic Coalitions mechanism? Can these find some level of
compromise after they develop their baseline positions, and if not how will
those positions relate to IGC as a whole as they may be contradicting?

If I have missed any issues, please feel free to forward it in reply to
this message (or raise them directly at the meeting, of course, if you
happen to be attending) so that we make sure our colleagues at the IGF 2014
have a chance to address them.

Have productive deliberations as well as safe trips to and from Istanbul,
and enjoy your stay over there!
Cheers,

Mawaki
IGC Co-coordinator
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From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com  Sun Aug 31 18:53:40 2014
From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 10:53:40 +1200
Subject: [governance] Watch UN SIDS Conference LIVE
Message-ID: <CAJwbTiD-2hezH-ZJbo43=uAbW3Bu2acqKJunrd004whOvsCmgw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear All,

The UN SIDS Conference can be accessed and watched remotely via UN TV, see:
http://webtv.un.org/


Kind Regards,
Sala
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