DMP} Re: [Final draft for final comments] Letter to Pres. Rousseff Re: [bestbits] [governance] Dilma Rousseff's speech at UN

michael gurstein gurstein at gmail.com
Thu Sep 26 14:05:54 EDT 2013 

Parminder, I believe that I was the one who gave the final compromise
formulation as per below and my reasons were as follows

1. it was meant specifically to replace a clause which univocally and
without condtions endorsed MSism--something I am for reasons I outline in my
blogpost
<http://gurstein.wordpress.com/2013/03/21/in-defense-of-multistakeholder-pro
cesses/>  on this subject unwilling to do

2. it does specify Internet Governance specifically and thus isn't as open
ended as you suggest although I agree it could and should be more specific
within that sphere

3. Refers to the specifics of the Brazil/CGI case which have as much (or as
little) broad application as one chooses to define the Brazil/CGI experience

4. Refers to the "experiences" of the Brazil model and not to the specifics
of the model itself

 

But I take your overall point and accept that the formulation is rather
overbroad and perhaps should be restated as something like

"Reinforce our qualified support for an extension into selected areas of
Internet Governance of the experiences from the Brazilian multistakeholder
model of Internet governance, led by CGI.br" (or some such.

 

M

 

From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
[mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of parminder
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2013 8:20 AM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
Subject: Re: DMP} Re: [Final draft for final comments] Letter to Pres.
Rousseff Re: [bestbits] [governance] Dilma Rousseff's speech at UN

 

resent since it seem not to have bene delivered the first time

On Thursday 26 September 2013 08:25 PM, parminder wrote:

 

On Thursday 26 September 2013 07:38 PM, Joana Varon wrote:

Ok. so here is what we will do.  

 

1) Item 4 will be changed to: 

"Reinforce our support for an extension into broader spheres of Internet
Governance of the experiences from the Brazilian multistakeholder model of
Internet governance, led by CGI.br",



How can one sign it without knowing what broader spheres should CGI.Br model
be extended to? The criticism of Marco Civil process here  tells me that the
intention is that what marco civil process did - culminating in the
parliament - should instead be done by CGI'Br..... That s killing democracy.
If that is the intention, it should be made clear, and not be a kind of back
door thing. If not so, pl tell us what other spheres are mean there. 

You must tell us which broader spheres do you want to extend it to....
Before one signs one needs to know

By this 'broader sphere' phrase you obviously do not mean global levels,
which I agreed already that it can be extended to....  If you indeed mean
'global levels' then too pl make it clear.

Anja also just asked for reference to multistakeholderism in terms of global
IG.... which is fine..... But why does the text go to a very old formulation
which is something about extending CGI.Br model to other IG areas in Brazil,
which is not discussed, neither one is very clear about... 



parminder 




 

2) Jeremy and I will send an email noting it to all the people who already
endorsed, noting this change and giving them the posibility to withdraw
their support (which I think will be unlikely). Well, thats not the ideal
process to do that. But, we will be happy to have ICG, APC, etc  supporting
the statement and more important, we got your points on the dangerous of the
current version. 

 

 

OK????

 

 

On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 4:03 PM, Avri Doria <avri at acm.org> wrote:


+1 to Anja's point.

with this change I will recommend that it be signed by IGC and groups I am a
member of,  and will sign it myself on the bestbits site

>From Carolina
> Pls, Avri, refer to CA and my email

But since


> not that it will change at this point, but it would be good to be sure we
have your language

Not sure why we are still trying.

Without a statement supporting a well formed multistakeholder model, I do
not want to contribute to a statement that seems to me to approve the way
Governments currently work.

re:


> "Reinforce our support for an extension into broader spheres of Internet
Governance of the experiences from the Brazilian multistakeholder model of
Internet governance, led by CGI.br",



Prefer the previous 4.

avri



On 26 Sep 2013, at 09:51, Anja Kovacs wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Not sure which version you mean, Norbert, but if it is the one in which
point 4 starts as follows:
>
> "Reinforce our support for an extension into broader spheres of Internet
Governance of the experiences from the Brazilian multistakeholder model of
Internet governance, led by CGI.br",
>
> My answer is yes, we would support that.
>
> Thanks,
> Anja
>
>
> On 26 September 2013 19:15, Avri Doria <avri at acm.org> wrote:
> Hi
>
> Yes, i would, I did,  accept that, as it balances support to the Marco
Civil with support for the multistakeholder governance.
>
> When 4 was dropped it put the emphasis on approving the process of the
past as opposed to suggesting a way to improve in the future.
>
> That works for me.
>
> avri
>
> On 26 Sep 2013, at 09:25, Norbert Bollow wrote:
>
> > [with IGC coordinator hat on]
> >
> > Suppose the drafters of the letter were willing to backtrack to this
> > version, would the IGC then be able to endorse the letter?
> >
> > Avri and Anja, do I understand correctly that your objections would
> > be moot in this case?
> >
> > Parminder, are you firmly objecting to this version of point 4, or would
> > the shortened version just have been strongly preferable from your
> > perspective?
> >
> > Greetings,
> > Norbert
> >
> >
> >>
>
>
> >> Letter from International Civil Society Organizations to President
> >> Dilma Rousseff in support of her statement at the 68th Session of the
> >> UNGA
> >>
> >>
> >> Your Excellency,
> >>
> >> We, the undersigned organizations and individuals from around the
> >> world, committed to the development of the Internet and its use for
> >> advancing social and economic justice, would like to express our
> >> strong support for the statement delivered this week by your
> >> Excellency at the 68th Session of the United Nations General
> >> Assembly. We commend you for taking a leading role on these issues
> >> and would like to:
> >>
> >> 1. Fully endorse the five principles enunciated on the occasion, in
> >> clear accordance with the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee's
> >> Principles for the Governance and Use of the Internet.
> >>
> >> 2. Stress the importance of the timely adoption of the Brazilian
> >> Draft Bill of Internet Rights (Marco Civil da Internet) in a way that
> >> upholds these principles.
>
>
> >> 3. Commend the courage of Brazil in
> >> expressing disapproval and demanding explanations from the USA about
> >> the procedures of illegal interception of  information and data,
> >> framing it as a grave violation of human rights and of civil liberties
> >>
> >> 4. Reinforce our support for an extension into broader spheres of
> >> Internet Governance of the experiences from the Brazilian
> >> multistakeholder model of Internet governance, led by CGI.br, which
> >> comprises representatives from Government, Scientific and Technology
> >> Community, private sector and Civil Society on an equal footing.
> >>
> >> We express our deep appreciation for your serious commitment to
> >> social justice and development, of which an open, stable, and
> >> reliable Internet is a fundamental pillar.
> >>
> >> Signatories:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 3:35 AM, Diego Rafael Canabarro
> >> <diegocanabarro at gmail.com > wrote: Ian is helping Joanna and me in
> >> drafting this reduced optimal version. : ) On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at
> >> 10:33 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> Agree. Stick to the first paragraph and we are all set. --srs (htc
> >> one x) On 26 September 2013 6:14:04 AM "Louis Pouzin (well)" wrote:
> >> Agree with Ian. This parag is all that matters. Louis - - - On Thu,
> >> Sep 26, 2013 at 2:03 AM, Ian Peter <ian.peter at ianpeter.com > wrote:
> >>
> >> Ive just looked again at this and it is getting longer and at the
> >> same time worse.   I think it needs a very substantial edit. Any more
> >> than two paragraphs and the chance of it being read is meagre.   To
> >> be honest, I think no more than this is necessary. - the first
> >> paragraph   We, the undersigned organizations and individuals from
> >> around the world, committed to the development of the Internet and
> >> its use for advancing social justice, would like to express our
> >> strong support for the statement delivered this week by your
> >> Excellency at the 68th Session of the United Nations General
> >> Assembly.   (reference the speech if you wish for those who would
> >> like to read more, but dont repeat it, interpret it, and elaborate on
> >> it).   And specifically I dont think we need to talk post Snowden,
> >> and demand apologies from the USA. That ain't going to happen.   Ian
> >> Peter ____________________________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
> >> -- Diego R. Canabarro http://lattes.cnpq.br/4980585945314597 --
> >> diego.canabarro [at] ufrgs.br diego [at] pubpol.umass.edu MSN:
> >> diegocanabarro [at] gmail.com Skype: diegocanabarro Cell #
> >> +55-51-9244-3425 <tel:%2B55-51-9244-3425>  (Brasil) / +1-413-362-0133
<tel:%2B1-413-362-0133>  (USA) --
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> >> --
> >> --
> >>
> >> Joana Varon Ferraz
> >> @joana_varon
> >> PGP 0x016B8E73
> >>
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> --
> Dr. Anja Kovacs
> The Internet Democracy Project
>
> +91 9899028053 <tel:%2B91%209899028053>  | @anjakovacs
> www.internetdemocracy.in
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-- 
-- 

Joana Varon Ferraz
@joana_varon
PGP 0x016B8E73



 

 

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