[governance] stakeholder categories (was Re: NSA sabotage of Internet security standards...)

[Peter H. Hellmonds]

Norbert,

How would you determine who has "a high degree of independence from government and from commercial interests related to the topics on which they engage"? Do you think that everyone of those who work for, or even speak for, a specific government or business is by virtue of that association not independent? 

And what value should lie in that independence? I presume that you have lost trust in government agencies who spy on us just as much as I do. And that you mistrust companies who have followed legal orders or who have willingly cooperated or collaborated with those spy agencies. That you have lost trust in the system of checks and balances where those checks have clearly failed. I am fully with you on that. But throwing all government or business people into the same category  of "untrustworthy because not independent" does not do justice to the majority of people working in these organizations. 

To answer your question: there is value in individuals, regardless of affiliation, to maintain an independence of thought and to work together in achieving common public policy goals. 

Finally, I feel like you are trying to preach from a high tower when you claim that "as every honest person will admit", the "trappings of political power and of commercial interest" can "easily lead people astray in their thinking."

Do you mean by this that everyone who works in government or business is suspicious of leaving his civil conscience, his ethics and morals, behind by virtue of drawing a paycheck from a particular organization?

Maybe you should throw that "holier-than-though" attitude that I sense behind that claim and start engaging with those people and see who they really are and how they think before making such broad generalizations. 

Respectfully

Peter 

On 18.09.2013, at 11:39, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch> wrote:

> Do you deny that there is value in the efforts of individuals and
> groups to be able to engage in a way that has a high degree of
> independence from government and from commercial interests related
> to the topics on which they engage?
> 
> Or would you suggest that a different term instead of “civil society”
> should be used to describe the people and organizations who engage with
> a high degree of independence from the trappings of political power and
> of commercial interests (which, as every honest person will admit, can
> easily lead people astray in their thinking)?

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