[governance] NET NEUTRALITY AND MORE

Wed May 29 06:16:23 EDT 2013

Kerry

I agree about metrics. But metrics are essentially proxies. There is an
economics type academic imperialism, that the complex world can be rendered
into measurements. On the one hand there are issues that are tractable. And
issues that are not tractable. As long as this is kept in mind, it will
contribute to the discourse. One need only look at employment stats in the
US to get the point. They measure who has worked + making no distinction
between full time work and someone who has worked an hour in a week. There
is a huge difference, and this needs to be borne in mind.

Riaz

On 28 May 2013 16:28, Kerry Brown <kerry at kdbsystems.com> wrote:

>  I agree with much of what Avri says here particularly the ideas about
> balance. What is needed to ensure net neutrality (however it is defined)
> are objective measurements and statistics. One of the biggest problems to
> defining net neutrality is we don’t have this. Most of the measurements we
> have are provided by commercial interests that are obviously not neutral.
> In order to get to a balanced Internet we need to define what measurements
> are needed and work towards finding ways to get them. We need a neutral
> party to measure and acquire data in IXPs then provide that data to
> regulators and civil society. In order to achieve balance we need data free
> from commercial bias.****
>
> ** **
>
> Kerry Brown****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:
> governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] *On Behalf Of *Avri Doria
> *Sent:* May-28-13 5:40 AM
> *To:* IGC
> *Subject:* Re: [governance] NET NEUTRALITY AND MORE****
>
> ** **
>
>
> hi,
>
> While I am in true confessions mode, I think today is my day for inviting
> attack.
>
> The fact that this thread calls itself NET NEUTRALITY and I have only
> spoken about  AND MORE keeps tickling at me.
>
> [so to borrow an old time alt.newsgroup discussion list motif - donning my
> asbestos underwear, i venture forth]
>
> I admit that this is a term I considered overloaded, and while I have seen
> various efforts to try and untangle the term, I don't beleive any of the
> attempts at untangling has ever taken.  So  i find coherent conversations
> on the topic few and far between.
>
> Some of my simplistic yet contradictory impressions on the topic:
>
> I have no doubt that in terms of the technical implications, there needs
> to be preferred treatment for some traffic: i.a. control, system
> monitoring, routing etc.  So the mechanisms for behaviors that thwart
> network neutrality are needed and will exist.
>
> In terms of one commercial outfit wanting to collect money when some other
> commercial outfit that uses its plant gains profit: I understand that being
> a problem for those who run corporations and beleive that making a profit
> for their investors is their responsibility.  Why should the service
> provider suffer so that the content provider can rake it in? So some
> differential charging for content providers seems unavoidable, no mater how
> complex or problematic it might be.
>
> Some  companies want to sell and some people/users/consumers want to buy
> better than best effort service for their gaming or streaming pleasure.
> From one perspective it seems reasonable.  But it seems that this might be
> at the expense of the bandwidth/service available for best effort.
> Whenever there is a premium product, the standard product gets short shrift
> because they want people to buy the premium product:  Marketing 102. But
> while I am not a fan of the so-called free market, I accept that the world
> I live in is populated mostly by people who do beleive in it. People want
> to sell what people want to buy and people want to make money. I might
> prefer it was otherwise, but that is the way it is. So it is a problem that
> needs to be dealt with.
>
> In terms of NGOs, people with small businesses and users with something to
> say/read/learn/share/inform,  anything that moves the Internet away from
> the best universal best effort service harm peoples' rights to proper (for
> some definition of proper) access to the Internet.
>
> Net neutrality is a classic tussle of interests in an overloaded
> discussion.  This is a problem that I beleive can only be solved by a
> continuous balancing of interests in an ongoing fully participatory
> mult-stakeholder process where these and the many other considerations I am
> ignoring in this short note, can be discussed and understanding can be
> developed.  But first I think we need unpack the term Net Neutrality and
> actually agree on what we are talking about.
>
> avri
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ****
>
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