[governance] Re: [bestbits] Comments asking ICANN to deny application for .pharmacy registration

[parminder]

On Monday 13 May 2013 07:41 PM, Milton L Mueller wrote:
> Parminder you have completely missed the point. In a rather disturbing way.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> It is surprising to what elegantly logical length people can go to shirk
>> responsibility.... It seems to be written all over the report that
>> 'closed generic' TLDs are bad for public interest, but it is amusing how
>> the Independent Objector (IO) wriggles out of the responsibility of
>> having to do anything about them.
> The IO said that the specific, limited criteria on which he is allowed to object do not allow him to object to a TLD simply because it is a closed generic.
> He is correct.

[parminder] Pl see my email. I said, either IO is wrong (he  applied 
creteria inappropriately) or ICANN is wrong to have laid inappropriate 
and insufficient creteria......

> What is disturbing about your response is that you apparently want the IO to arbitrarily and unilaterally decide what is in the "public interest"
[parminder] I can easily relieve you of this particular disturbance.... 
I am no great believer in 'experts' deciding such major things . Such so 
called 'independent' objectors or arbitrators have a very limited role, 
if any, in my democratic scheme of things..... But maybe, the community 
criterion could have been applied..... English speaking people 
constitute a community whose collective rights are compromised by 
allowing, for instance. the products of Amazon such close exclusive 
association with the word 'book' which is so widely used in a different 
meaning by this community..... But the IO chose not to apply the 
criterion...... But IMHO such 'independent experts' mostly do not give 
rulings that could upset things too much - and an adverse ruling would 
have had too far reaching an impact on ICANN...

>   - an undefined and almost inherently undefinable term

[parminder] A polity's essential job is to define and determine "public 
interest" in a given context...... In the same way as the essential task 
of the institution of market is to determine the appropriate 'exchange 
value' of anything.....No institution does thus essential tasks 
perfectly... but these terms do not lose meaning becuase of that. It is 
just your deep anti-governmentalism speaking here.

> - and then impose it on us, without any process or any checks and balances. And you want this because YOU have decided that closed generics are bad.

[parminder] In fact, it is you who have 'decided' that 'public interest' 
being indefinable should not be spoken of, whereby I cant understand 
what are we doing at all in what is supposed to be a political space.

>
> The distinction here is between rule of law and arbitrary rule. So you need to understand that "democratic governance" means neither rule of momentary majorities, mobs, or powerful individuals acting arbitrarily based on whatever they feel is in the public interest. It means  laws and policies made through a representative and participatory process,
[parminder] Yes, lets discuss what is democracy... I agree it 'means 
laws and policies made through a representative and participatory 
process', which are apparently aimed at 'public interest', right! You 
seem to have earlier agreed that ICANN should stick to narrow technical 
policy stuff, and for wider public interest/ policy issues be guided by 
a framework provided from the outside. Am I right! Most times you seemed 
satisfied by the US legal system providing this larger framework, but I 
also noted that you recently agreed to some kind of multilateral system 
setting this framework (something you were also inclined to just after 
WSIS in the form of framework convention).

That brings us to a very important context - the meeting of the WG on 
Enhanced Cooperation (EC) later this month. I see two sides of EC - one 
is the 'larger public policies' side and other is 'CIR oversight' part. 
On the side of 'CIR oversight' one of the biggest task is, and I quote 
Tunis agenda "the development of globally-applicable principles on 
public policy issues associated with the coordination and management of 
critical Internet resources".

How do you propose these principles can and should be developed?If we 
can agree on that, or even make progress towards possible agreement,we 
will have made a great contribution to global IG. I request your 
comments on this .

My problem is that the current default framework is the US 
establishment's thinking in the Internet area - which is that markets 
will take care of pubic interest. Period. . I dont agree with this 
framework... But that should not matter. The real problem is that this 
framework was never arrived at democratically... And since you insist on 
democracy, and I fully agree, lets find out the democratic means to 
arrive at these overall public policy principles for CIR management.  
What do you suggest?


> constrained by due process and individual rights. It is disappointing that you just want a populist dictator to impose the 'right' decision

[parminder] On the contrary, it if you who are rooting for the dictator 
- the US establishment,  which is imposing its public policy framework 
on the whole world ...
>   'right' being defined as whatever you want.

[parminder] Just becuase US establishment's market fundamentalist stance 
for global IG suits you thinking and preferences .

> And of course, when someone exploits that arbitrary power to do something you don't like, you will scream about violation of process and how ICANN is undemocratic.

[parminder] I have several times pointed out that you, Milton, would 
never have agreed to any other country having the same level of 
unilateral control as US . Neither would you have countenanced even US 
control if by some magic it had been pro commons and public goods nature 
of the Internet .....
> But you are revealing your true colors here.

[parminder] You dont even have reveal your true colors :)

> It is in fact a common problem with so-called "progressives," they don't have a very deep understanding of how and why one needs to constrain power, they just believe that if you give the 'right people' with the right ideas (i.e., their ideas) absolute
> power then everything will be fine.

[parminder] OK, all progressives are stupid.....
>
>> In fact, it is really surprising the extent to which people within what
>> is called as the ICANN community seem to agree that 'closed generic'
>> TLDs are not quite right but still insist that it is somehow someone
>> else's responsibility to do something about it... All kinds of
> No, in the public comments it is obvious that the arguments against closed generics were weak and rhetorical. The arguments for allowing the closed generic model as one of many possible models of managing a TLD were clearly more intelligently argued. The anti-closed generic arguments relied entirely on fear-based claims about monopoly power which had no basis in economic facts or theory, or anti-corporate rhetoric, or the attempts of business competitors attempting to hamstring a rival. The whole thing was pretty comical.

[parminder] And neoliberals are all very intelligent....... With your 
permission, may I tap into your intelligence to know how should we 
develop "globally-applicable principles on public policy issues 
associated with the coordination and management of critical Internet 
resources".

parminder
>
>

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