[governance] China's next-generation internet is a world-beater - tech - 10 March 2013 - New Scientist
Norbert Bollow
nb at bollow.ch
Wed Mar 13 13:28:58 EDT 2013
Alejandro,
the assertion about the IGF and some other fora which don't
"stem from the Internet community" that "the Internet
community must see these as bumps (sometimes tall hurdles!!) on the
road to our single goal" is not putting words into your mouth.
It is something that you have explicitly written.
Greetings,
Norbert
Am Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:04:00 +0000
schrieb "Alejandro Pisanty" <apisan at unam.mx>:
> Norbert,
>
> The only "only" goal is the organic growth of a free Internet, able
> to serve all people with interoperability and innovation.
>
> Anything else is putting words in my mouth. "It isn't even wrong".
>
> Alejandro Pisanty
> Enviado desde/Sent from BlackBerry®
>
> ! !! !!! !!!!
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>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch>
> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:42:38
> To: <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>; Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
> Baruch<apisan at unam.mx> Cc: Jeremy Malcolm<jeremy at ciroap.org>
> Subject: Re: [governance] China's next-generation internet is a
> world-beater
> - tech - 10 March 2013 - New Scientist
>
> Alejandro,
>
> Jeremy's "only" is a reasonable extrapolation from your
> characterization of various fora including the IGF that don't "stem
> from the Internet community" with the words "The Internet
> community must see these as bumps (sometimes tall hurdles!!) on the
> road to our single goal".
>
> While I strongly agree with the goal that you describe, I equally
> strongly disagree with the view that it is the only goal that matters.
>
> Greetings,
> Norbert
>
> Alejandro Pisanty Baruch <apisan at unam.mx> wrote:
>
> > Jeremy,
> >
> > there is no "only" in what I wrote.
> >
> > Sad to read that an academic finds critique of his/her work, and
> > questions on his opinions about an organization he belongs to, an
> > "attack", but we already went throught that and I am done here.
> >
> > Your misread of my statements is lamentable and once again, "not
> > even wrong", to quote Wolfgang Pauli yet again.
> >
> >
> > Alejandro Pisanty
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
> > Facultad de Química UNAM
> > Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
> >
> >
> >
> > +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
> >
> > +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475
> > Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
> > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
> > Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,
> > http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter:
> > http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico,
> > http://www.isoc.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> >
> > ________________________________
> > Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
> > [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Jeremy Malcolm
> > [jeremy at ciroap.org] Enviado el: miércoles, 13 de marzo de 2013 00:03
> > Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org Asunto: Re: [governance]
> > China's next-generation internet is a world-beater - tech - 10
> > March 2013 - New Scientist
> >
> > On 13/03/13 13:19, parminder wrote:
> > In fact, I am often deeply touched by the deep value based work that
> > goes on in the multilateral systems, for instance what I saw
> > recently at a ECOSOC committee working on access to scientific
> > knowledge. Such kind of work stands out even more when seen against
> > the open and blatant private interest based discussions and deal
> > making that mark the so called loosely structured private
> > governance systems that dominate Internet governance.
> >
> > What is happening at the larger social-structural level, and which I
> > consider as the greatest threat to democracy, is a clear move from
> > public governance, based on social contract, to private governance,
> > based on private, interest-based, contracts. And the shift is rather
> > systemic.
> >
> > Not too long ago, Alejandro attacked me on an ISOC list over
> > something that I had posted to the governance list, so I'm now going
> > to return the favour and repost something that he recently posted to
> > the ISOC list, which I think exemplifies the mindset that you are
> > referring to:
> >
> >
> > 4. Looking forward, we will have the WTPF and the Plenipot, and a
> > number of other fora which are either already planned or in the
> > making. Some of them are not strictly under the ITU umbrella, like
> > the IGF; others are outside, like the OECD's reports and meetings.
> > The Internet community must see these as bumps (sometimes tall
> > hurdles!!) on the road to our single goal: keeping the Internet
> > open, interoperable, end-to-end, able to evolve, and as a basis for
> > permissionless innovation. Internet Governance must continue to
> > evolve with the full range of stakeholders taking part and avoiding
> > all excess attempts to control the Internet for a single party, be
> > it political or private.
> >
> > 5. To that end we must continue to strengthen and make widely known
> > the work of ISOC, the IETF, ICANN, the RIRs, the ccTLDs, MAAWG, APWG
> > and the many other - existing or emerging - bodies and mechanisms
> > that stem from the Internet community.
> >
> >
> > So here we have it that only the "bodies and mechanisms that stem
> > from the Internet community" are entitled to participate in global
> > norm-setting, and that "other fora like the IGF" are to be "seen as
> > bumps on the road". A very telling observation, and one that goes
> > far to explain the persistence of Alejandro and his colleagues in
> > constraining the development of the IGF.
> >
> > Meanwhile, as Michael's link to Commissioner McDowell's speech
> > showed, even he, underneath the usual crackpot fear-mongering, did
> > acknowledge that the IGF would need to develop if it were to provide
> > an alternative forum than the ITU to which developing countries
> > could turn to address their concerns.
> >
> > Just wondering how long it will take for the technical community to
> > realise that their little universe of Internet community bodies is
> > not, and can never be, the be-all and end-all of Internet
> > governance, and that they can't sweep away intergovernmental
> > processes (especially multi-stakeholder ones) as just "bumps in the
> > road"...
> >
> > --
> >
> > Dr Jeremy Malcolm
> > Senior Policy Officer
> > Consumers International | the global campaigning voice for consumers
> > Office for Asia-Pacific and the Middle East
> > Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala
> > Lumpur, Malaysia Tel: +60 3 7726 1599
> >
> > WCRD 2013 – Consumer Justice Now! | Consumer Protection Map:
> > https://wcrd2013.crowdmap.com/main | #wcrd2013
> >
> > @Consumers_Int |
> > www.consumersinternational.org<http://www.consumersinternational.org>
> > |
> > www.facebook.com/consumersinternational<http://www.facebook.com/consumersinternational>
> >
> > Read our email confidentiality
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> > Don't print this email unless necessary.
>
>
>
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