[governance] Re: [bestbits] PRISM - is it about the territorial location of data or its legal ownership

Suresh Ramasubramanian suresh at hserus.net
Thu Jun 27 01:22:29 EDT 2013


Thanks for sharing this. Looks like a further rebuttal of some long 
recycled canards is in order. Now for a letter to the editor of the indian 
express

--srs (htc one x)



On 27 June 2013 10:43:20 AM parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> wrote:
>
>  From the Indian Express, of yesterday..... The author recently retired
> as India's Permanent Representative to the UN.
>
>
>
>
>   Wide asleep on the net
>
> *Hardeep S Puri* Posted online: Thu Jun 27 2013, 05:15 hrs
> **/The Snowden revelations point to the urgency to overhaul the current 
> architecture of global internet governance/
>
> Disclosures by Edward Snowden of the PRISM project by the National Security 
> Agency of the United States government have revived discussions about the 
> need for democratisation of the current architecture of global internet 
> governance. Notwithstanding the sophistry and grandstanding about 
> preserving the multi-stakeholder model, freedom of expression and avoiding 
> control of content, the current system is anything but any of these. Behind 
> this veneer, the economic, commercial and political interests of a powerful 
> group are sought to be entrenched.
>
> The US not only possesses the capacity to keep our citizens under 
> surveillance, but in fact tracks telephone calls, emails, chats and other 
> communications based on the internet every month, in the name of 
> counter-terrorism. Being ranked fifth, bracketed with Jordan and Pakistan 
> and ahead of Saudi Arabia, China and Russia, should be a matter of concern 
> for India.
>
> Apologists among Indian IT majors and industry associations can be expected 
> to rise in defence of the current model of internet governance; after all, 
> many of them depend on global internet majors for their business, and have 
> always spoken and acted on behalf of the latter. Whenever discussions are 
> held on the subject, the former find ways of occupying the space and 
> manipulating opinions that echo the interests of the latter.
>
> India called for democratisation of global internet governance and proposed 
> in October 2011 the setting up of a Committee for Internet-Related Policies 
> (CIRP), accountable to the United Nations General Assembly, to deal with 
> international public policies relating to the internet. Instead of 
> discussing the pros and cons of different elements of the proposal, there 
> was an orchestrated cacophony in the media designed to drown any reasoned 
> debate. Calls were made to force India to withdraw the proposal. India’s 
> proposal was characterised as catastrophic, threatening a “UN takeover of 
> the internet”, and doomed to bring down Indian IT firms.
>
> India’s policy on this subject of considerable strategic significance has 
> been consistent for over a decade. The initial calls for democratisation of 
> global internet governance were made by then ministers Arun Shourie in 
> December 2003 in Geneva and Dayanidhi Maran in Tunis in November 2005, at 
> the World Summit on Information Society (WSIS). India pursued the 
> implementation of the report of the Working Group on Internet Governance 
> (WGIG) chaired by Nitin Desai on the subject during the 2003 -05 period and 
> the Tunis Agenda, which mandated that the “International management of the 
> internet should be multilateral, transparent and democratic”. The report 
> got implemented only in parts, through the setting up of the Internet 
> Governance Forum whose ineffectiveness has been increasingly recognised in 
> recent months even by Western commentators and academics. The more 
> important recommendations on dealing with public policy issues were buried 
> deep, without any meaningful discussion of the options presented in the report.
>
> The WGIG had identified significant governance gaps with regard to the 
> internet: these included unilateral control of the root zone files and 
> systems and lack of accountability of root zone operators; concerns over 
> allocation policies for IP addresses and domain names; confusion about 
> application of intellectual property rights in cyberspace; substantially 
> higher connectivity costs in developing countries located far from internet 
> backbones; lack of multilateral mechanisms to ensure network stability and 
> security; lack of effective mechanisms to prevent and prosecute internet 
> crimes and spam; barriers to multi-stakeholder participation; restrictions 
> on freedom of expression; inconsistent application of privacy and 
> data-protection rights; absence of global standards for consumer rights; 
> insufficient progress towards multilingualism; and insufficient 
> capacity-building in developing countries. The Indian proposal had only 
> suggested that these very same issues, as well as policy issues that have 
> evolved since WSIS, be considered by the CIRP; it had not proposed that the 
> UN “take over the internet”, or that the current technical arrangements be 
> overturned, as argued by the detractors.
>
> We need to recognise the implications of the current model. On the one 
> hand, India is asked to ratify the Budapest Convention on Cybercrime, in 
> the negotiation of which India played no part, in order for us to be 
> eligible to be qualified as a “data-secure” country. On the other, India is 
> sought to be excluded from any forum or deliberations where the global 
> rules for governance of the internet or management of critical internet 
> resources and logical infrastructure are evolved. Another aspect that is 
> seldom appreciated here is the discomfort that European countries have with 
> the current US-dominated model of global governance of the internet, as 
> demonstrated by statements emanating from their officials, the number of 
> legal disputes European bodies have launched against US internet majors, 
> and attempts by countries like France to modify the existing system.
>
> Well before the Snowden disclosures, the security, socio-economic and legal 
> implications of the current model of internet governance had become quite 
> apparent. Just to take one example, the Julian Assange phenomenon and the 
> WikiLeaks disclosures had amply demonstrated some of them. Concerns about 
> shell companies and tax avoidance by global internet majors provide another 
> instance. The use of Stuxnet was a third one.
>
> The US is clearly determined to continue its relentless pursuit of the 
> current model of global internet governance, for preserving its economic 
> and strategic interests. It is unlikely that there will be any change in 
> its policy even after the Snowden disclosures.
>
> Some representatives of Indian industry associations have been warning that 
> Indian IT companies are heavily dependent on global internet majors and 
> that they will suffer by India’s championing of the cause of 
> democratisation of internet governance. This lie needs to be nailed. First, 
> there has been no evidence of any such impact. Second, independent of 
> India’s proposal, Indian IT companies have been demonstrating that they 
> have more or less reached the maximum of the current models of their 
> growth. Third, we need to work for the next generation of Indian IT 
> companies, which can move up the value chain by creating their own branded 
> services and products and leading global innovation in IT. In other words, 
> we need to produce the next generation of Murthys and Premjis. This 
> requires modifying the eco-system, architecture and infrastructure, both 
> nationally and internationally, where such ventures can grow. This makes it 
> imperative for India to become a lead player and shape the global ICT 
> industry architecture that helps Indian ICT companies of the future.
>
> None of this is going to be easy, however. We need a dedicated group of 
> people — within the establishment, industry, technical and scientific 
> community, academia, civil society and media — who can reflect upon and 
> define India’s long-term interests in advancing the cause of democratising 
> global internet governance and free ourselves from the current model where 
> the space for discussion is arrogated by apologists for the current model 
> of unilateral control.
>
> The UN has launched a process for observing the 10th anniversary of WSIS in 
> 2015. This provides an opportunity for India to work with other leading 
> democratic countries like Brazil and South Africa within the IBSA platform 
> and with other like-minded countries in the UN for democratising global 
> internet governance to make it truly “multilateral, transparent and 
> democratic”, as envisioned in the Tunis Agenda.
>
> The writer, a retired diplomat, was India’s permanent representative to the UN
>
> ***
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday 26 June 2013 03:54 PM, parminder wrote:
> >
> > While building on the past is important, I think, there is also a keen 
> realisation  that we are passing - and mostly, missing - a series of what 
> could be 'constitutional moments' for a new Internet mediated society... 
> And that the global civil society should pause, and retrospect. I see this 
> from emails of Gene, Andrew, Michael, Marianne and others - on diverse 
> issues, ranging from the recently concluded meeting of ITU WG on Internet 
> related public policy issues to PRISM plus disclosures.
> >
> > Let me try to pick what in my view are some 'big points' of the present 
> moment... and then drill downwards. The biggest I think is that we need to 
> get over that age of innocence, whereby most civil society took the stance 
> that less rather than more global IG is better..... That was a mistake, and 
> continues to be a mistake... Internet is big, it is global, it transforms 
> everything. And the prescription of less rather than more - appropriate - 
> governance of it can only serve dominant interests. We need to accept that 
> - whether it is human rights, or it is distributional issues - we need more 
> global IG. And since Internet itself is new, its global governance too will 
> involve many new elements. It is, to a good measure, up to the civil 
> society to be innovative and brave in this regard..... Something, 
> unfortunately, we have consistently shrunk from doing...
> >
> > First of all, we urgently need an appropriate focal point - and around it 
> a webbed architecture - of global IG.... And that focal point I think 
> should be body like the OECD's Committee on Computers, Information and 
> Communication Policy, which can be attached to the UN General Assembly, and 
> should be new age in its structure, form, participation avenues etc... And 
> this committee should be fed in by the IGF. Everyone who knows about the 
> OECD's CCICP, knows how intensively it works, and what quality of output it 
> produces, and how how consultative, multi-stakeholder etc it is.....
> >
> > We simply must create a similar focal point at the global level, right 
> away..... Lets at least discuss it... I have raised this proposal several 
> times, but have have no real response on why such a body at the global 
> level is not appropriate, and why is it appropriate at OECD level.... This 
> single step would go a long way it setting us on the right direction....
> >
> > And then, this is the second imperative, we need to go down to some real 
> work.... not just the highest level principles that have been around but 
> seem not to really work... For example, Andrew quotes privacy principles 
> from GNI document. Well, its provisions clearly were violated what what 
> Snowden tells us... So?? Nothing happens. Right. We have provisions in the 
> IRP doc as well....
> >
> > What we need to do now is to move to the next serious level.... Speak 
> about actual due process, guarantees for transit data. how these guarantees 
> operate, and the such. We were informed recently on the IGC list that EU 
> does not subject data that is merely in transit to data retention 
> requirements. How this obligation can be extended to others. ... What 
> disclosures can and should the telecom and application companies share 
> about data hosting and transit, and applicability of different 
> jursidictions over the data they carry and process.... We need to drill 
> down to such real issues. And that kind of thing happens only when there 
> are clear focal points for policy development that exist  (See for instance 
> the real work that is going on right now in Marrakesh for writing out a new 
> treaty  guaranteeing access to printed material for the visually 
> impaired).... We have on the other hand seen the kind of joke that the IGF 
> has rendered itself into as a policy dialogue forum.... We need to take 
> preventive action against such motivated obfuscations....
> >
> > So, as I said, two things - (1) look for a real institutional focal point 
> for global IG, where all can participate, and (2), work on real norms, 
> policy frameworks, in the manner OECD's CCICP does.... I see no other 
> option... but as always wiling, to hear about them, if they exist....
> >
> > parminder
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wednesday 26 June 2013 02:45 PM, Andrew Puddephatt wrote:
> >>
> >> Entirely agree Marianne – this seems  a sensible way of proceeding
> >>
> >> *Andrew Puddephatt***| *GLOBAL PARTNERS*DIGITAL
> >>
> >> Executive Director
> >>
> >> Development House, 56–64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT
> >>
> >> T: +44 (0)20 7549 0336 | M: +44 (0)771 339 9597 | Skype: andrewpuddephatt
> >> *gp-digital.org*
> >>
> >> *From:*Marianne Franklin [mailto:m.i.franklin at gold.ac.uk]
> >> *Sent:* 26 June 2013 08:30
> >> *To:* Andrew Puddephatt
> >> *Cc:* 'parminder'; bestbits at lists.bestbits.net; 
> governance at lists.igcaucus.org; irp at lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org
> >> *Subject:* Re: [bestbits] PRISM - is it about the territorial location 
> of data or its legal ownership
> >>
> >> Dear Andrew
> >>
> >> Have been following the conversation with interest. The point Parminder 
> raises about the responsibilities of companies in ensuring that human 
> rights in the fullest sense of the term are not jeopardised at the deepest 
> levels of the internet's architecture is one that indeed needs attention. 
> However, the conversation so far is proceeding as if no work at all has 
> been done around human rights norms and principles for the internet. This 
> is not the case. A lot of work has been done, indeed stretching back many 
> year into the WSIS period. If we choose to forget or ignore what came 
> before we are all doomed to repeat past mistakes (as a great sage once 
> remarked)!
> >>
> >> With the Bali IGF as a venue for meeting and moving forward I do think 
> it is important to note that the Charter of Human Rights and Principles 
> already goes a *long* way in defining these 'global' (I use the term 
> advisedly) norms and principles carefully. The reason for the cautious 
> approach in 2010-2011 when the IRP Coalition was drafting this current 
> version was precisely in order to be precise and coherent. Many people on 
> all these lists were involved in this process and can share the credit for 
> what has been achieved. The cautiousness then, criticised at the time, has 
> paid off in retrospect.
> >>
> >> As a wide-ranging Charter of human rights and principles focusing on the 
> online environment, then picked up by Frank La Rue thanks to the work of 
> the then IRP Coalition Chairs, Lisa Horner and Dixie Hawtin in turn, based 
> on the UDHR and its successors it was, and is not intended to be a 
> prescriptive, or one-size-fits-all document. What was intended and to my 
> mind has been achieved is rather a baseline, inspirational framing for the 
> work that is now emerging around specific cases and situations such as 
> privacy, freedom of expression and so on that have been thrown into relief 
> by the events around PRISM. The IRP Charter is also careful to include the 
> responsibility of companies as integral to these emerging norms. Events 
> have underscored that the IRP Charter was a project worth engaging in and 
> for that the 'we' on these lists did achieve something quite remarkable.
> >>
> >> Moving the IRP Charter up a level is a focus for two workshops at least 
> in Bali, and the IRP Meeting there I would like to propose that these are 
> very suitable places to continue these discussions, online and of course in 
> person. The Best Bits meeting prior to the IGF is in this respect a great 
> way to get started as the next stage of the IRP Charter in substantive 
> terms gets underway i.e. addressing the weaker parts of the current Beta 
> version (http://internetrightsandprinciples.org/site/charter/) and widen 
> awareness amongst the human rights community and inter-govn organizations. 
> A huge step in the latter has already been achieved in recent weeks and I 
> would like to add these moves to the work being done through Best Bits.
> >>
> >> Finally, on principles seeing as this focus is also on the IGF agenda, 
> here too the IRP Charter developed precursor models (such as the APC Bill 
> of Rights, the Marco Civil principles too) the IRP Ten Principles are 
> intended as an educational, outreach version of the actual Charter. So here 
> the work being initiated around Internet Goverance Principles (however 
> defined) is something the IRP coalition supports implicitly.
> >>
> >> The only question I am getting from members is about how better to work 
> together, which is why the current Charter goes quite some way in 
> establishing the sort of framework that is being advocated here. No need to 
> reinvent the wheel in other words!
> >>
> >> best
> >> MF
> >>
> >> On 25/06/2013 17:59, Andrew Puddephatt wrote:
> >>
> >>     Just welcoming Parminder’s focus on companies here.  I feel that
> >>     the current situation is an opportunity to push the companies a
> >>     lot more rigorously than we have been able to do so far.   I like
> >>     the idea of global norms and principles and I wonder if anyone
> >>     has done any detailed work on this in relation to
> >>     security/surveillance and jurisdictional questions – specifically
> >>     the role of global companies rooted in one jurisdiction
> >>     (principally the US I would guess?).    I note that some German
> >>     MPs are calling for US companies to establish a German cloud
> >>     distinct and separate from US jurisdiction..
> >>
> >>     I think we can strategically link the two issues that Parminder
> >>     has flagged up – we can reinforce the push for norms and
> >>     principles pointing out this is a way for country’s to escape the
> >>     US orbit – as long as we can avoid the danger of breaking the
> >>     internet into separate national infrastructures – which is where
> >>     the norms and principles need to be carefully defined.   Is this
> >>     something we can discuss online and then discuss in person at Bali?
> >>
> >>     Looking at the GNI principle on privacy it says:
> >>
> >>     Privacy is a human right and guarantor of human dignity. Privacy
> >>     is important to maintaining personal security, protecting
> >>     identity and promoting freedom of expression in the digital age.
> >>
> >>     Everyone should be free from illegal or arbitrary interference
> >>     with the right to privacy and should have the right to the
> >>     protection of the law against such interference or attacks.
> >>
> >>     The right to privacy should not be restricted by governments,
> >>     except in narrowly defined circumstances based on internationally
> >>     recognized laws and standards. These restrictions should be
> >>     consistent with international human rights laws and standards,
> >>     the rule of law and be necessary and proportionate for the
> >>     relevant purpose.
> >>
> >>     Participating companies will employ protections with respect to
> >>     personal information in all countries where they operate in order
> >>     to protect the privacy rights of users.
> >>
> >>     Participating companies will respect and protect the privacy
> >>     rights of users when confronted with government demands, laws or
> >>     regulations that compromise privacy in a manner inconsistent with
> >>     internationally recognized laws and standards.
> >>
> >>     Is this something to build upon?   The final clause is
> >>     interesting – it implies that signatory companies will respect
> >>     privacy even when asked to comply with laws that breach
> >>     internationally recognized laws and standards which I assume
> >>     everyone thinks that FISA does?
> >>
> >>     *Andrew Puddephatt***| *GLOBAL PARTNERS*DIGITAL
> >>
> >>     Executive Director
> >>
> >>     Development House, 56–64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT
> >>
> >>     T: +44 (0)20 7549 0336 | M: +44 (0)771 339 9597 | Skype:
> >>     andrewpuddephatt
> >>     *gp-digital.org*
> >>
> >>     *From:*bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net
> >>     <mailto:bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net>
> >>     [mailto:bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net] *On Behalf Of *parminder
> >>     *Sent:* 25 June 2013 09:25
> >>     *To:* bestbits at lists.bestbits.net
> >>     <mailto:bestbits at lists.bestbits.net>;
> >>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
> >>     *Subject:* Re: [bestbits] PRISM - is it about the territorial
> >>     location of data or its legal ownership
> >>
> >>
> >>     This is how I think it works overall - the digital imperialist
> >>     system..... Global Internet companies - mostly US based -  know
> >>     that much of their operations worldwide legally are on slippery
> >>     grounds.... They find it safest to hang on to the apron strings
> >>     of the one superpower in the world today, the US... They know
> >>     that the US establishement is their best political and legal
> >>     cover.  The US of course finds so much military, political,
> >>     economic, social and cultural capital in being the team leader...
> >>     It is an absolutely win win... That is what PRISM plus has been
> >>     about. And this is what most global (non) Internet governance has
> >>     been about - with the due role of the civil society often spoken
> >>     of here.
> >>
> >>     Incidentally, it was only a few days before these disclosures
> >>     that Julian Assange spoke of "technocratic imperialism
> >>     
> <http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/02/opinion/sunday/the-banality-of-googles-dont-be-evil.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0>"
> >>     led by the US-Google combine... How quite to the point he was...
> >>     Although so many of us are so eager to let the big companies off
> >>     the hook with respect to the recent episodes.
> >>
> >>     What got to be done now? If we indeed are eager to do something,
> >>     two things (1) do everything to decentralise the global
> >>     Internet's architecture, and (2) get on with putting in place
> >>     global norms, principles, rules and where needed treaties that
> >>     will govern our collective Internet behaviour, and provide us
> >>     with our rights and responsibilities vis a vis the global Internet.
> >>
> >>     But if there are other possible prescriptions, one is all ears.
> >>
> >>     parminder
> >>
> >>
> >>     On Tuesday 25 June 2013 01:04 PM, parminder wrote:
> >>
> >>         On Monday 24 June 2013 08:18 PM, Katitza Rodriguez wrote:
> >>
> >>             Only answering one of the questions on jurisdictional
> >>             issues: The answer is somewhat complex
> >>
> >>             if data is hosted in the US by US companies (or hosted in
> >>             the US by companies based overseas), the government has
> >>             taken the position that it is subject to U.S. legal
> >>             processes, including National Security Letters, 2703(d)
> >>             Orders, Orders under section 215 of the Patriot Act and
> >>             regular warrants and subpoenas, regardless of where the
> >>             user is located.
> >>
> >>             The legal standard for production of information by a
> >>             third party, including cloud computing services under US
> >>             civil (http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcp/rule_45) and
> >>             criminal (http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcrmp/rule_16) law
> >>             is whether the information is under the "possession,
> >>             custody or control" of a party that is subject to US
> >>             jurisdiction. It doesn’t matter where the information is
> >>             physically stored, where the company is headquartered or,
> >>             importantly, where the person whose information is sought
> >>             is located. The issue for users is whether the US has
> >>             jurisdiction over the cloud computing service they use,
> >>             and whether the cloud computing service has “possession,
> >>             custody or control” of their data, wherever it rests
> >>             physically. For example, one could imagine a situation in
> >>             which a large US-based company was loosely related to a
> >>             subsidiary overseas, but did not have “possession,
> >>             custody, or control” of the data held by the subsidiary
> >>             and thus the data wasn’t subject to US jurisdiction.
> >>
> >>
> >>         Interesting, although maybe somewhat obvious! So, even if an
> >>         European sends a email (gmail) to another European, and the
> >>         transit and storage of the content never in fact reaches US
> >>         borders, Google would still be obliged to hand over the
> >>         contents to US officials under PRISM...... Can a country
> >>         claim that Google broke its law in the process, a law perhaps
> >>         as serious as espionage, whereby the hypothesized European to
> >>         European email could have carried classified information!
> >>         Here, Google, on instructions of US authorities would have
> >>         actually transported a piece of classified - or otherwise
> >>         illegal to access - information from beyond US borders into
> >>         US borders.
> >>
> >>         What about US telcos working in other countries, say in
> >>         India. AT&T (through a majority held JV) claims to be the
> >>         largest enterprise service provider in India. And we know AT
> >>         & T has been a somewhat over enthusiastic partner in US's
> >>         global espionage (for instance see here
> >>         <http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100121/1418107862.shtml>
> >>         )... Would all the information that AT & T has the
> >>         "possession. custody and control" of in India in this matter
> >>         not be considered fair game to access by the US...... All
> >>         this looks like a sliding progression to me.  Where are the
> >>         limits, who lays the rules in this global space....
> >>
> >>         parminder
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>         On 6/24/13 5:28 AM, parminder wrote:
> >>
> >>             Hi All
> >>
> >>             There was some demand on the bestbits list that we still
> >>             need to ask a lot of questions from the involved
> >>             companies in terms of the recent PRISM plus disclosures.
> >>             We are being too soft on them. I refuse to believe that
> >>             everything they did was forced upon on them. Apart from
> >>             the fact that there are news reports
> >>             
> <http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-14/u-s-agencies-said-to-swap-data-with-thousands-of-firms.html>
> >>             that US based tech companies regularly share data with US
> >>             gov for different kinds of favours in return, or even
> >>             simply motivated by nationalistic feeling, we should not
> >>             forget that many of these companies have strong political
> >>             agenda which are closely associated with that of the US
> >>             gov.   You must all know about 'Google Ideas
> >>             <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Ideas>', its
> >>             revolving doors with US gov's security apparatus, and its
> >>             own aggressive regime change ideas
> >>             <http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article34535.htm>.
> >>             Facebook also is known to 'like' some things, say in MENA
> >>             region, and not other things in the same region.....
> >>
> >>             Firstly, one would want to know whether the obligations
> >>             to share data with US government extended only to such
> >>             data that is actually located in, or flows, through, the
> >>             US. Or, does it extend to all data within the legal
> >>             control/ ownership of these companies wherever it may
> >>             reside.  (I think, certainly hope, it must be the former,
> >>             but still I want to be absolutely sure, and hear directly
> >>             from these companies.)
> >>
> >>             Now, if the obligation was to share only such data that
> >>             actually resided in servers inside the US, why did these
> >>             companies, in face of what was obviously very broad and
> >>             intrusive demands for sharing data about non US citizens,
> >>             not simply locate much of such data outside the US. For
> >>             instance, it could pick up the top 10 countries, the data
> >>             of whose citizens was repeatedly sought by US
> >>             authorities, and shift all their data to servers in other
> >>             countries that made no such demand? Now, we know that
> >>             many of the involved companies have set up near
> >>             fictitious companies headquartered in strange places for
> >>             the purpose of tax avoidance/ evasion. Why could they not
> >>             do for the sake of protecting human rights, well, lets
> >>             only say, the trust, of non US citizens/ consumers, what
> >>             they so very efficiently did for enhancing their
> >>             bottom-lines?
> >>
> >>             Are there any such plan even now? While I can understand
> >>             that there can be some laws to force a company to hold
> >>             the data of citizens of a country within its border,
> >>             there isnt any law which can force these companies to
> >>             hold foreign data within a country's borders... Or would
> >>             any such act perceived to be too unfriendly an act by the
> >>             US gov?
> >>
> >>
> >>             I am sure others may have other questions to ask these
> >>             companies.....
> >>
> >>             parminder
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>         -- >>
> >>         Katitza Rodriguez
> >>
> >>         International Rights Director
> >>
> >>         Electronic Frontier Foundation
> >>
> >>         katitza at eff.org  <mailto:katitza at eff.org>
> >>
> >>         katitza at datos-personales.org  
> <mailto:katitza at datos-personales.org>  (personal email)
> >>
> >> >>
> >>         Please support EFF - Working to protect your digital rights and 
> freedom of speech since 1990
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -- Dr Marianne Franklin
> >> Reader
> >> Convener: Global Media & Transnational Communications Program
> >> Co-Chair Internet Rights & Principles Coalition (UN IGF)
> >> Goldsmiths, University of London
> >> Dept. of Media & Communications
> >> New Cross, London SE14 6NW
> >> Tel: +44 20 7919 7072
> >> <m.i.franklin at gold.ac.uk>  <mailto:m.i.franklin at gold.ac.uk>
> >> @GloComm
> >> https://twitter.com/GloComm
> >> http://www.gold.ac.uk/media-communications/staff/franklin/
> >> https://www.gold.ac.uk/pg/ma-global-media-transnational-communications/
> >> www.internetrightsandprinciples.org  
> <http://www.internetrightsandprinciples.org>
> >> @netrights
> >
>
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