[governance] Have there been any statements re: PRISM from the "technical community"

[Riaz K Tayob]

McTim /et al/

On Kafka we can always agree :)

But we differ on first principles. As stated in the thread on 
internationalisation (of yours and Milton's), we disagree at the level 
of first principles. The freedom/liberty/voluntrism implicit in those 
articulations is one I characterised of a particular kind, as Fischer I 
think wrote - free to choose; which I did not share. The repost at that 
time from more heterodox views appended, free to loose. It is a 
particular type of voluntrism - where everyone is free to sleep under 
bridges, rich or poor. Kinda like Marie Antoinette who allegedly said, 
why don't they eat cake. I doubt she said it because of her type of 
upbringing as later historians argue as she was brought up with strict 
noblesse oblige and was active in caring for the destitute despite her 
privileges.

For purposes of taking matters forward, if constructive action/s are 
possible in this vein, perhaps you could clarify your views on 
internationalisation, multistakeholderism (equity in representation of 
estates, public interest, commercial sector, revolving door appointed 
'regulators'), legitimacy of governance of CIR including ICANN. You have 
been vocal on this so perhaps you do not want to go through these, but I 
do think it may dispel any misapprehensions of others on your views some 
critiques/dialogues of ours may have caused.

Then there is the procedural aspects of political practice (not right or 
wrong, just about processes; kinda yes/no) regarding the relevance of 
IGC list discussion on - whether there is a common set of issues between 
the technical and regulatory/public interest; - the US ecosystem of laws 
and institutions as a subject of debate for the Global Internet; - the 
role and practice of corporations in internet governance; procedures for 
selection of and composition of technical team members; - whether it is 
a valid democratic option to opt not to deal with ICANN and related 
institutions to object to their illegitimacy, whether (legitimate) 
vested interests have the same standing as public interests,  and if the 
same standards of universal human rights and democratic norms should 
apply to all countries.

Since you feel pilloried, and I have my notes, this may clarify it for 
others - far be it for me to characterise your views at this point. As 
you know, chopping the head off of the many hydra that is Internet 
Governance and replacing it with a legitimate one while retaining all 
other arrangements (for incremental change) is valid for discussion as 
is the Parminder/ IT4Change proposals (not speaking for them, just a 
reference). This is no less idealistic than your utopian/conception of 
government '/free/' internet governance (italics because the state is 
still called upon to regulate and enforce property rights - the /a 
priori/ contradiction at the heart of many libertarian views, just fyi :).

Riaz

On 2013/06/10 11:39 PM, McTim wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 4:00 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian 
> <suresh at hserus.net <mailto:suresh at hserus.net>> wrote:
>
>     More worryingly, I have found neimoller's great words often sadly
>     cheapened by dragging them into any debate at all about a
>     government's actions.  Possibly in effect comparing said
>     government to the evil regime that targeted him and everybody else
>     in his poem?
>
>
>
> What I find worrying is that those of us who have always been 
> concerned about giving gov'ts too much power in IG arenas are now 
> pilloried for blocking attempts at giving gov't too much power when it 
> is in fact a gov't that is responsible for this fiasco  (not the T&A 
> folks, nor biz folks who are also pilloried).
>
> Kafkaesque!!
>
>
> -- 
> Cheers,
>
> McTim
> "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A 
> route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel 

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