[governance] Demands to IGF host nation and UNDESA over funding (was: Fwd: [Internet Policy] IGF Bali)

Suresh Ramasubramanian suresh at hserus.net
Sun Jul 28 08:27:18 EDT 2013 

It is interesting but googling the animal farm quote gives me more than one 
article and blog post that talks about institutionalized racism. Which this 
smug and automatic assumption of superiority over other stakeholders 
actually is, after a fashion.

We have seen more than one attempt to redefine civil society in such a 
manner as to shut out, say, the technical community, which makes your 
calling out this behavior quite a good idea.

--srs (htc one x)



On 28 July 2013 5:30:46 PM Deirdre Williams <williams.deirdre at gmail.com> wrote:
> I want to comment on Jeremy's second sentence because I think it
> demonstrates the accepted presence of something that we should try very
> hard to get rid of.
> One of the great gifts of the original Internet was the fact that it made
> true anonymity possible. If one chose to read someone else's ideas and
> suggestions then one was forced to pay attention to the proposal itself
> without jumping to pre-conclusions based on the perceived identity of the
> "speaker".
> If we are really interested in multistakeholder participation in governance
> then ALL participants must be given an equal quality of attention.
> I agree with Jeremy's sentence, but deplore the fact that he found it
> necessary to include it.
> Multistakeholder means listening to everyone with an open mind.
> Civil society should not consider itself as being "more equal than others"*
> although it may well be more inclusive than others (surely ALL of us belong
> to it)
> Deirdre
> * In George Orwell's "Animal Farm" Napoleon, one of the pigs who led the
> revolution, reduces the original "Seven Principles of Animalism" to one -
> "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others".
>
>
> On 27 July 2013 06:05, Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org> wrote:
>
> > Forwarding with permission.  Let's not dismiss these recommendations by
> > dint of where they come from.  I would like to see us discussing and
> > supporting them if appropriate.
> >
> > Begin forwarded message:
> >
> > *From: *Patrick Ryan <patrickryan at google.com>
> > *Subject: **Re: [Internet Policy] IGF Bali*
> > *Date: *27 July 2013 12:56:37 PM GMT+08:00
> > *To: *"Smith, Bill" <bill.smith at paypal-inc.com>
> > *Cc: *"internetpolicy at elists.isoc.org" <internetpolicy at elists.isoc.org>
> >
> > Dear all,
> >
> > As many of you know, the budget and funding issue has been a pet project
> > of mine since February, and has been quite intense since I joined the MAG
> > in May.  It's a frustrating process because the way that the UN accounts
> > for projects is not standard (they don't use GAAP accounting, for example),
> > it's obscure, and the details are limited to donors.  This makes it really
> > complicated: there's no way to attract donors unless there is transparency,
> > and even when one becomes a donor, there is still much to be desired. I'll
> > spare further soap-boxing on this point for another day, but offer some of
> > the following facts for the community.  I don't claim to understand all of
> > this nor have any of us verified them, but at this point sharing them is
> > the only thing that I can see as a path towards resolution.  We have two
> > concrete asks that we think can be helpful.
> > *
> > *
> > *#1, Request for ID-IGF: tell us what number is needed.*
> > The organization in Indonesia that is now sponsoring the IGF is ID-IGF,
> > and their fundraising brochure is 
> here<https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BylRrf_lFlA9OXhieGt5WUJsMkU/edit>. It's
> > actually a $2m total figure (although we've also heard $2.5), but the
> > source for the $2m number is on p. 8 ("The overall fundraising target for
> > hosting the IGF in 2013 is USD $1,966,560.20")  There are certainly many
> > things that can be reduced, as Vint mentions.* Thus, we ask ID-IGF to
> > provide us with a bottom-line number on what they need to raise to move
> > forward.*
> > *
> > *
> > *#2, Request for UNDESA: clear the path for Tides. * As of right now, if
> > any individual wants to fund the IGF, they need an individual contract with
> > UNDESA to do so.  That is a complicated process and does not scale (it took
> > Google more than six months to negotiate the contract last year).  While
> > crowdsourcing would be wonderful, it's completely impossible.  We have a
> > proposed solution, but it is stalled.  We propose working with Tides.org,
> > a non-profit that can aggregate funds.  Through Tides, we could set up a
> > simple website and crowdsource. Here is my email about 
> Tides<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1x9qkyvKcIr8acXahMXHf-WI3MeaWlKLahFVYMSGJpgw/edit> 
> as
> > sent to donors and MAG in Feb and in May, and here the actual Tides
> > 
> proposal<https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BylRrf_lFlA9WUtncWlrc192Y1U/edit?usp=sharing> 
> that
> > Tides sent to the IGF. * **Our request to UNDESA: clear the path for the
> > Tides proposal so that crowdsourcing can be enabled (UNDESA and Tides have
> > met various times and have exchanged documents, but after five months, it
> > is still open, but should be able to wrap quickly).*
> > *
> > *
> > *#3, Request for UNDESA: share the budget details with the community.  *We've
> > asked many times for more transparency in the budget, as noted above. I've
> > documented this request with UN officials as well.  It's crucial and not at
> > all controversial in government entities, and it's fundamental to create
> > trust and attract further donors.  We've asked UNDESA to share that and
> > think it's important that it be acted upon. * Request for UNDESA: share
> > the overall budget details on the IGF with the community, both for the
> > IGF activities and for in-country budgets. *
> >
> > These requests are straightforward but we'll need the community to support
> > us if you agree.
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> > ------
> > *patrick ryan *
> > public policy & gov't relations sr. counsel, free expression and int'l
> > relations
> > patrickryan at google.com | +1.512.751.5346
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 8:52 PM, Smith, Bill 
> <bill.smith at paypal-inc.com>wrote:
> >
> >>  ... and I don't believe we have ever been able to get what in business
> >> we might call a reasonable budget. Large-scale events like the IGF are
> >> expensive and a figure of 2.5mm USD is not unreasonable. I can also state
> >> the 900k USD figure for UN "security and support" is in line with estimates
> >> I have hear bandied about. I have also been told that those costs are
> >> unavoidable for a UN event.
> >>
> >>  I, and I expect many others, would consider an attendance fee quite
> >> acceptable. Of course there will be issues that would have to be addressed
> >> but they are manageable. Perhaps tomorrow will be a better day.
> >>
> >> On Jul 26, 2013, at 7:23 PM, "Vint Cerf" <vint at google.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>   the numbers i have are not quite that favorable. I have been told the
> >> target is $2.5M and that the Indonesian ISP Alliance has raised $900K of
> >> that leaving a shortfall of $1.6M. I don't have adequate breakout to know
> >> what is included in these figures. In Azerbaijan, the government apparently
> >> tried to pay for all the food and maybe we could ask the attendees to pay
> >> an attendance fee to cover that? Until there is more clarity as to out of
> >> pocket expense for the venue, networking, other services, it will be hard
> >> to raise funds, I think.
> >>
> >>
> >>  v
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 7:49 PM, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch <
> >> apisan at unam.mx> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Wyn,
> >>>
> >>> the consideration that good and trusted friend Peng Hwa conveys is
> >>> contained (having read him) in my question re unreasonable demands by the
> >>> UN - and it sure looks like one!
> >>>
> >>> It's very tempting to second-guess what is going on, it's sure the full
> >>> truth may never out, there does seem to be a lot of mischief and games
> >>> going on... so let's keep a watchful eye.
> >>>
> >>> One sure thing we will need to do is more transparency in the use of
> >>> this kind of funds and to understand whether such a bill can be justified
> >>> and accepted at all. Keep in mind for the right time.
> >>>
> >>> Yours,
> >>>
> >>> Alejandro Pisanty
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> >>>      Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
> >>> Facultad de Química UNAM
> >>> Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
> >>>
> >>> +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475
> >>> Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
> >>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
> >>> Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,
> >>> http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
> >>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
> >>> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
> >>> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
> >>>
> >>> ________________________________________
> >>>  Desde: internetpolicy-bounces at elists.isoc.org [
> >>> internetpolicy-bounces at elists.isoc.org] en nombre de Winthrop Yu [
> >>> w.yu at gmx.net]
> >>> Enviado el: viernes, 26 de julio de 2013 18:17
> >>> Hasta: internetpolicy at elists.isoc.org
> >>> Asunto: Re: [Internet Policy] IGF Bali
> >>>
> >>>     In that vein Dr. Alejandro, the numbers show that the Indonesian
> >>> organizers
> >>> had already successfully raised US$1.15M, a not insubstantial amount.
> >>>  Yes,
> >>> there is still a shortfall of US$1.05M. But it seems to me that without
> >>> that
> >>> single $900K expense item (mentioned by Prof. Ang below), then the
> >>> Indons are
> >>> already very close (only $105K remaining) to meeting their target budget?
> >>>
> >>> WYn
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>  > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >>>  > From: *Ang Peng Hwa (Prof)* <TPHANG at ... <mailto:TPHANG at ...
> >>>  > Date: 26 July 2013 08:50
> >>>  > Subject: [Rigf_program] IGF in Indonesia cancelled
> >>>  > To: "program at ... <mailto:program at ..." <program at ...
> >>>  > <mailto:program at ...
> >>>  >
> >>>  >
> >>>  > Folks,
> >>>  >
> >>>  > This is sad but official: the Indonesian organizers have cancelled
> >>> the IGF.
> >>>  > The announcement was made by the chair of the organizing committee (a
> >>>  > businessman) after a meeting with the minister and the civil society
> >>> group.
> >>>  >
> >>>  > There is a news report in Bahasa Indonesia at
> >>>  >
> >>>
> >>> 
> http://inet.detik.com/read/2013/07/25/135130/2314218/328/kurang-dana-forum-internet-dunia-batal-digelar-di-bali
> >>> .
> >>>
> >>>  >
> >>>  >   Use Google translate and you will be able to read.
> >>>  >
> >>>  > I had met the civil society organizers just this week. They were
> >>> asking for
> >>>  > possible tips on fund raising. After exploring the options, we
> >>> concluded that
> >>>  > they had approached most of the likely sponsors. Yes, there were some
> >>>  > possibilities they had overlooked but these were not many.
> >>>  >
> >>>  > According to the news report, out of the US$2.2M (Rp22 billion)
> >>> budget, they
> >>>  > had raised US$900k. The Ministry had given US$250k. So they had a
> >>> shortfall of
> >>>  > US$1.05M.
> >>>  >
> >>>  > Third party sources I checked (i.e. Not the Indonesians themselves)
> >>> said that
> >>>  > one major cost was that the UN had asked for US$900k to fly personnel
> >>> and
> >>>  > security apparatus to the meeting.
> >>>  >
> >>>  > Knowing a little of the inside story, I would say the situation is
> >>> more
> >>>  > complex than one might have guessed. Next year is the election year
> >>> for
> >>>  > Indonesia. So companies are asking: if I support you now but you do
> >>> not win,
> >>>  > what happens? Then two weeks before the IGF, there is the APEC
> >>> meeting in the
> >>>  > same venue. So the feeling that is Indonesia will be on the world's
> >>> stage at
> >>>  > that time already. Meanwhile, the Minister of Communication, whose
> >>> ministry
> >>>  > oversees the IGF, is under allegations of corruption. It's one of
> >>> those series
> >>>  > of unfortunate events.
> >>>  >
> >>>  > Regards,
> >>>  > Peng Hwa
> >>>  >
> >>>  >
> >>> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>  > CONFIDENTIALITY:This email is intended solely for the person(s) named
> >>> and may
> >>>  > be confidential and/or privileged.If you are not the intended
> >>> recipient,please
> >>>  > delete it,notify us and do not copy,use,or disclose its content.
> >>>  >
> >>>  > Towards A Sustainable Earth:Print Only When Necessary.Thank you.
> >>>  >
> >>>  > _______________________________________________
> >>>  > Rigf_program mailing list
> >>>  > Rigf_program at ... <mailto:Rigf_program at ...
> >>>  > https://mailman.dotasia.org/mailman/listinfo/rigf_program
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 7/27/2013 4:12 AM, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch wrote:
> >>> > Hi all,
> >>> >
> >>> > for all I know ISOC and ICANN already make substantial monetary
> >>> contributions to
> >>> > the IGF, in different forms. They have been key all over the years.
> >>> >
> >>> > I am glad to see that Google is making a commitment of the right size
> >>> - enough
> >>> > of a fraction of the total cost to be significant, a real commitment,
> >>> and also
> >>> > leaving enough space for others to co-own the sustainability of the
> >>> IGF.
> >>> >
> >>> > I regret that this situation can also be seen as a victory for
> >>> extortion -
> >>> > parties not honoring their initial expected commitments finding
> >>> someone to pay
> >>> > for that - and think that we will need to understand the details
> >>> better (was the
> >>> > UN demanding too much or something unfair? were the parties in
> >>> Indonesia missing
> >>> > their targets?) in order to judge and to manage this into the future.
> >>> >
> >>> > It remains to be seen whether the extortion worked, or an honest deal
> >>> is
> >>> > stricken, in Indonesia or elsewhere, and the result will help distill
> >>> who is
> >>> > actually committed to an open IGF and who may be not so. Certainly
> >>> Google's
> >>> > contribution has to be welcomed and one would hope that it starts a
> >>> sort of
> >>> > bidding process in which parties compete to complete the support the
> >>> ITF needs.
> >>> > Much remains to be sorted out.
> >>> >
> >>> > But it is undeniable good news that there is a way to provide
> >>> sustainability to
> >>> > the IGF from a multistakeholder set of contributions, and for now I'll
> >>> reserve
> >>> > all other judgment and celebrate!
> >>> >
> >>> > Yours,
> >>> >
> >>> > Alejandro Pisanty
> >>> >
> >>> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> >>> >       Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
> >>> > Facultad de Química UNAM
> >>> > Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
> >>> >
> >>> > +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
> >>> >
> >>> > +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475
> >>> > Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
> >>> > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
> >>> > Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,
> >>> http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
> >>> > Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
> >>> > ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
> >>> > .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>
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> >>>
> >>
> >>   _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
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> >>
> >
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> >
> >
> > --
> > Jeremy Malcolm PhD LLB (Hons) B Com
> > Internet and Open Source lawyer, consumer advocate and geek
> > host -t NAPTR 5.9.8.5.2.8.2.2.1.0.6.e164.org|awk -F! '{print $3}'
> >
> >
> >
> >     --
> >
> > *Dr Jeremy Malcolm
> > Senior Policy Officer
> > Consumers International | the global campaigning voice for consumers*
> > Office for Asia-Pacific and the Middle East
> > Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
> > Malaysia
> > Tel: +60 3 7726 1599
> >
> > Explore our new Resource Zone - the global consumer movement knowledge hub
> > |http://www.consumersinternational.org/news-and-media/resource-zone
> >
> > @Consumers_Int | www.consumersinternational.org |
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> >
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> Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
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