[governance] Yet another new -strategy - thread title: It may be broke - politically - but how to fix it, technopolitically? ; )
Suresh Ramasubramanian
suresh at hserus.net
Thu Jan 24 00:50:55 EST 2013
Come to think of it, the phrase used was "involuntary poverty". Which does exist in that people can suddenly become poor due to no fault of theirs (economic recession, layoffs ...)
Voluntary poverty might actually exist - as in cases where you become a monk and decide to cast away all your worldly goods and attachments. But I fail to see where that has a bearing on this issue, or where it suddenly becomes "politically sensitive".
--srs (iPad)
On 24-Jan-2013, at 10:57, "Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch" <apisan at unam.mx> wrote:
> Parminder,
>
> thanks. At least we have a choice to follow you or Sandra Bullock in our search for world peace.
>
> Please, though, help me: who has used the term "voluntary poverty"?
>
> Yours,
>
> Alejandro Pisanty
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
> Facultad de Química UNAM
> Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>
>
>
> +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
>
> +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475
> Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
> Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>
> ________________________________________
> Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de parminder [parminder at itforchange.net]
> Enviado el: miércoles, 23 de enero de 2013 23:15
> Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> Asunto: Re: [governance] Yet another new -strategy - thread title: It may be broke - politically - but how to fix it, technopolitically? ; )
>
> On Thursday 24 January 2013 06:12 AM, Ian Peter wrote:
>> Alx, perhaps the compelling question over and above all of these
>> issues, particularly for those who praise and promote the
>> multistakeholder model as a guiding principle of internet governance,
>> is what can we do to make the IGC more effective in dealing with all
>> of these issues?
>>
>> Ian Peter
>>
>> PS while agreeing that involuntary poverty and greenhouse emissions
>> have better places to be discussed, internet can do things as regards
>> these issues. As regards tax - again there are probably wider fora
>> that are better for discussing this issue, but we need to acknowledge
>> that the tax implication of significant volumes of internet based
>> trade are a new and significant problems for nation states. Best we
>> try to address these in a multistakeholder forum, perhaps?
>
> I would strongly object to any formulation that suggests that civil and
> political rights/ justice issues somehow belong to core of Internet
> governance, and social/ economic rights/ justice issues either do not
> belong to IG or belong to its peripheries.
>
> Why, to make the above point explicit, for instance, dont we argue that
> there are other forums to discuss issues like freedom of expression or
> the nature of our governance systems (MSism etc) rather than do it as a
> part of IG.
>
> What is so inherently IG about FoE or about how our collective political
> decisions are taken? These issues can very well be discussed in forums
> devoted specifically to these issues. Let IG remain confined to core
> technical areas... Unthinkable right! Similarly, new paradigms and
> manners of economic distribution and social justice are tied to core
> socio-technical architectural decisions about the Internet, which is
> what IG is all about.
>
> Any kind of negation or even 'accommodative language' regarding social
> and economic rights/ justice issues - yes, poverty, taxations and such -
> in the IG space is not acceptable. It is core IG, period.
>
> Parminder
>
> PS: I also take strong objection to the ideology implied in the use of
> the term 'voluntary poverty' in such global political discussions as the
> present one.
>
>
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch
>> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 7:46 AM
>> To: Ian Peter ; governance at lists.igcaucus.org ; "Kleinwächter,
>> Wolfgang" ; Norbert Bollow ; Lee W McKnight
>> Subject: RE: [governance] Yet another new -strategy - thread title: It
>> may be broke - politically - but how to fix it, technopolitically? ; )
>>
>> Ian,
>>
>> let's start by trimming and paring... involuntary poverty, greenhous
>> emissions, and taxation have so far eluded the IGC's grasp.
>>
>> What are the problems, say on the WGIG list of 40, where you see the
>> IGC has had more success?
>>
>> Yours,
>>
>> Alejandro Pisanty
>>
>>
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>> Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
>> Facultad de Química UNAM
>> Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>>
>>
>>
>> +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
>>
>> +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475
>> Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
>> Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,
>> http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
>> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> Desde: Ian Peter [ian.peter at ianpeter.com]
>> Enviado el: miércoles, 23 de enero de 2013 13:46
>> Hasta: Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch; governance at lists.igcaucus.org;
>> "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang"; Norbert Bollow; Lee W McKnight
>> Asunto: Re: [governance] Yet another new -strategy - thread title: It
>> may be broke - politically - but how to fix it, technopolitically? ; )
>>
>> Alx, I'm all for quick wins if we can find them - what are the "more
>> approachable problems of internet governance" on which you think we
>> should
>> focus?
>>
>> Ian Peter
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch
>> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 6:36 AM
>> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org ; "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" ; Norbert
>> Bollow ; Lee W McKnight
>> Subject: RE: [governance] Yet another new -strategy - thread title: It
>> may
>> be broke - politically - but how to fix it, technopolitically? ; )
>>
>> Wolfgang,
>>
>> "and world peace", from the eminent and much admired philosopher Sandra
>> Bullock.
>>
>> Sala-now-Norbert, disclaimer, this is meant as a sort of joke containing
>> irony with a tongue-in-cheek gesture and some eye-rolling as a
>> humor-intended framework for a call to focus on the more approachable
>> problems of Internet Governance. It may not be understood by some and may
>> not be liked by others. Dismiss me from posting at will.
>>
>> Alejandro Pisanty
>>
>>
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>> Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
>> Facultad de Química UNAM
>> Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>>
>>
>>
>> +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
>>
>> +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475
>> Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
>> Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,
>> http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
>> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
>> [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de "Kleinwächter,
>> Wolfgang" [wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de]
>> Enviado el: miércoles, 23 de enero de 2013 11:09
>> Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Norbert Bollow;
>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Lee W McKnight
>> Asunto: AW: [governance] Yet another new -strategy - thread title: It
>> may be
>> broke - politically - but how to fix it, technopolitically? ; )
>>
>> Norbert:
>>> From my perspective, I'm inclined to suggest that the key goal should
>>> be to
>> solve the problems of eradicating involuntary poverty and
>> sufficiently limiting greenhouse gas emissions.
>>
>> Wolfgang:
>> Good issues. However we have to link this to the Internet related aspects
>> and we have to continue with our main priorities as human rights,
>> consumer
>> rights, bridging the digital divde, infrastructure development, privacy,
>> (free) access, further conceptual enhancement of the multistakehoder IG
>> model in ongoing international Internet negotiations in 2013 (WSIS 10+,
>> WTPF, UNCSTD, WTDC, UNGA, HRC, IGF, ICAAN etc.) among others.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
For all other list information and functions, see:
http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
http://www.igcaucus.org/
Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
More information about the Governance
mailing list