[governance] proposal re committee selection
Baudouin SCHOMBE
b.schombe at gmail.com
Tue Dec 10 12:53:31 EST 2013
I can even close my eyes and vote for ISOC chapter Kenya.
*SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN*
*REPRESENTANT OFFICIEL TICAFRICA ET CYBERVILLAGE at FRICA/RDC*
*COORDINATION NATIONALE CAFECCOORDINATION NATIONALE REPRONTIC*
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2013/12/10 Jeanette Hofmann <jeanette at wzb.eu>
>
> There seems to be a flooding of committees at the moment, and we have no
> way of knowing how important each of them will be. Moreover, we have no way
> of knowing what specific stances the people we are considered as
> representatives will take up on the issues addressed. Still it seems we
> make a lot of a fuss on procedures for nominating them.
>
> Here is a practical proposal for simplifying the process and creating more
> room for substantive discussion:
>
> Lets create a balanced pool of people who enjoy respect and trust on the
> various lists, balanced in terms of gender and region. With such a pool of
> people in place, we can leave the question of who participates in what
> venue, or more precisely, who is proposed to join a given committee, to
> that very pool of people. The price the people have to pay for being among
> these talented few is going again and again through the torture of
> selecting the best candidates for each individual job.
>
> Each request for cs representation would be forwarded to this pool. The
> pool would be given a "best before" time stamp of, say, 18 or 24 months.
>
> jeanette
>
> Am 10.12.13 17:32, schrieb Marilia Maciel:
>
>> I'm sorry, but to me this discussion does not reflect fundamental
>> divergence of views with any of the names - Bill, Milton or Anriette -
>> and it is certainly not about lack of trust. The underpinning reason
>> here is not a disagreement among CS people, it is a disagreement with
>> how the HL panel matter has been conducted.
>>
>> Do we need one HL panel? Many ppl think we dont, yet we have it. Since
>> we have it, do we have space for CS? No, there is an appalling lack of
>> CS representation. "Then give us names", they said. And we engaged in a
>> process to do it, because we want to be constructive and to participate.
>> Just to see that effort being disregarded without any convincing
>> explanation. To my knowledge, we will not have any representative there
>> to convey any substantial message that we wish to convey. Bill is
>> invited as expert. What bothers me is the feeling that CS - and all
>> organizations that participated in the NonCom process - were made fool
>> in a way. If they wanted experts, not CS representatives, why not be
>> clear about it? Sometimes a blunt no is better than a unfulfilled yes.
>>
>> With that I am not saying that I do not agree with Jeanette and George.
>> I think we are missing the point of the most important thing, the
>> substance. Then, let's unbury Andrew's thread about substance, answer
>> the survey (deadline today) and move on with concrete stuff, as soon as
>> we have this compilation/mapping of replies back. But this present
>> thread is about "HL and CS reps". So I think it is understandable that
>> we are talking about process. Process is all we have to talk about
>> without knowing not even what the agenda is, and without having an idea
>> of how to contribute.
>>
>> Anyway, reinforcing previous suggestions to communicate concerns, I rest
>> my case about this.
>>
>> Marília
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 1:58 PM, George Sadowsky
>> <george.sadowsky at gmail.com <mailto:george.sadowsky at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I strongly share Jeanette's opinion.
>>
>> Representatives of civil society causes (RCSC) (that
>> characterization typifies many of the people on the list, I think)
>> have both positive messages and concerns. The positive messages are
>> those that many of us automatically subscribe to when they are
>> expressed at the highest level, such as 'freedom of expression.
>> These are positive messages.
>>
>> The concerns come because such desired states are often weakened by
>> others, typically by governments but also by certain trends in other
>> sectors. Hence the need, often expressed by RCSCs to be 'at the
>> table' with other sectors, comes from the possibility that these
>> positions will be eroded, consciously or unconsciously, by other
>> sectors. The desire to be included is a quite understandable
>> reaction to that possibility.
>>
>> But what I don't understand is the intense internal process and
>> disputes regarding who gets to represent a group that appears
>> homogeneous at the top level. Is the homogeneity superficial? If
>> so, it would be more useful to explore and understand the
>> differences within the RCSC. Is the dispute based upon ideological
>> purity of the process for selection? That seems counterproductive
>> and generally a waste of time to me. Is the dispute based upon lack
>> of trust among group members? Are there other reasons. Is the
>> representation process an end in itself, regardless of its effect
>> upon pursuing other CS goals. If so, then perhaps this should be
>> reconstituted as a political science theory group.
>>
>> It seems to me that rather than spending so much time discussing and
>> debating representation issues, it would be more useful to discuss
>> why representation issues are so important, often IMO to the
>> detriment of working on real civil society issues.
>>
>> I'm with Jeanette. Concentrate upon issues, and that means areas of
>> agreement and disagreement with other sectors as well as within the
>> RCSC community. Disputes about representation seem unproductive,
>> unless they imply unaddressed issues within the community. If so,
>> it surely seems more productive to address them directly rather than
>> through this proxy dispute based on representation.
>>
>> George
>>
>>
>> On Dec 10, 2013, at 10:29 AM, Jeanette Hofmann wrote:
>>
>> > I fully agree with Rafik's concern. In fact, both the IGC and the
>> > bestbits list seem to have become rather obsessed with filling
>> positions
>> > on various committtees.
>> >
>> > In another message from last week that probably got lost or still
>> awaits
>> > the moderator's approvement, I noticed a growing madness about
>> committee
>> > positions and other appointments which is more or less pushing
>> aside
>> > the debate over issues and opinions.
>> >
>> > Besides, I also think that a distinction should be made between
>> > appointed experts and stakeholder representatives. Generally, I
>> wished
>> > we paid less attention to the issue of representatives and
>> focused more
>> > on the message we want to convey.
>> >
>> > jeanette
>> >
>> > Am 10.12.13 14:49, schrieb Rafik Dammak:
>> >> Hello,dfasfd
>> >>
>> >> I am wondering if we are not giving too much weight to HLM than it
>> >> should be and doing for it a free promotion! honestly, I was
>> not in
>> >> favour of the ICANN strategic panels since they are not bottom-up,
>> >> formed by handpicked members and bypassing the usual process. I
>> found
>> >> now that we want badly to be in that high level panel and making
>> it
>> >> relevant and maybe even giving it a big role for Brazil meeting!
>> hope
>> >> that we wont regret such decision later.
>> >>
>> >> we can ask for giving inputs, openness etc but that will be
>> definitely
>> >> depending to the will ICANN/WEF/Anneberg Foundation and there
>> won't be
>> >> any guarantee on how they process the inputs or how it will be
>> included
>> >> in their deliverable. everything is ad-hoc there and any
>> decision will
>> >> depend to the will of the organisers. why shall we encourage
>> such process?
>> >>
>> >> Back to the previous discussion, Bill was invited as expert and
>> the name
>> >> of panel is not "an expert group" , I don't see the confusion
>> here.
>> >>
>> >> Rafik
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> 2013/12/10 Marilia Maciel <mariliamaciel at gmail.com
>> <mailto:mariliamaciel at gmail.com>
>> >> <mailto:mariliamaciel at gmail.com <mailto:mariliamaciel at gmail.com
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> Milton is right about the (lack of) process. On the one hand,
>> it is
>> >> positive that we have someone we trust there. On the other
>> hand, it
>> >> does seem that they are including who they want and how they
>> want,
>> >> totally disregarding the serious process we have been
>> conducting to
>> >> appoint names.
>> >>
>> >> I think that a letter signed by all organizations that
>> participated
>> >> in the nomination process should be sent to ICANN and ideally
>> read
>> >> during the meeting, expressing our frustration and adding some
>> >> concrete suggestions. I come back to the points I made earlier:
>> >> - the agenda of the HL panel meetings should be publicized in
>> advance
>> >> - channels to receive inputs (procedural or substantive)
>> should be
>> >> created or clarified
>> >> - their meetings should be open to observers (like the
>> meetings of
>> >> the CSTD ECWG)
>> >> - Reports of the meetings should be published. They could
>> follow
>> >> Chatam House rules
>> >> And
>> >> - CS representatives (names), who were appointed following an
>> >> internal and legitimate process carried out by CS, should be
>> >> immediately included in the HL panel to ensure minimum CS
>> >> representation.
>> >>
>> >> Marília
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 8:35 AM, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch
>> <mailto:nb at bollow.ch>
>> >> <mailto:nb at bollow.ch <mailto:nb at bollow.ch>>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu
>> <mailto:mueller at syr.edu> <mailto:mueller at syr.edu
>> <mailto:mueller at syr.edu>>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > The distinction between Bill's appointment as an
>> expert and
>> >> the CS
>> >> > groups' nomination of people to be on the committee is
>> not so
>> >> clear
>> >> > to me, and we cannot assume that it is clear to Fadi,
>> especially
>> >> > since the London meeting of the group starts in two
>> days.
>> >> Either one
>> >> > could be seen as Fadi making a concession to CS
>> demands to be
>> >> > included in the HLLM, and he may consider one to be a
>> >> substitute for
>> >> > the other. At this stage, I would assume that if
>> there is no
>> >> > appointment of another CS rep to the HL Panel by now,
>> that
>> >> there will
>> >> > not be one at all, and Bill is all we will be given.
>> The fact
>> >> that
>> >> > Bill's appointment came from a random F2F hallway
>> meeting isn't
>> >> > something that inspires confidence, is it?
>> >>
>> >> +1
>> >>
>> >> Especially given that there was in fact a coordinated
>> civil society
>> >> process through which names have been put forward.
>> >>
>> >> Greetings,
>> >> Norbert
>> >>
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> *Marília Maciel*
>> >> Pesquisadora Gestora
>> >> Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade - FGV Direito Rio
>> >>
>> >> Researcher and Coordinator
>> >> Center for Technology & Society - FGV Law School
>> >> http://direitorio.fgv.br/cts
>> >>
>> >> DiploFoundation associate
>> >> www.diplomacy.edu <http://www.diplomacy.edu>
>> <http://www.diplomacy.edu>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
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>>
>> --
>> *Marília Maciel*
>> Pesquisadora Gestora
>> Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade - FGV Direito Rio
>>
>> Researcher and Coordinator
>> Center for Technology & Society - FGV Law School
>> http://direitorio.fgv.br/cts
>>
>> DiploFoundation associate
>> www.diplomacy.edu <http://www.diplomacy.edu>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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