[governance] [bestbits] HLLM in LOndon - CS reps
George Sadowsky
george.sadowsky at gmail.com
Tue Dec 10 10:58:05 EST 2013
I strongly share Jeanette's opinion.
Representatives of civil society causes (RCSC) (that characterization typifies many of the people on the list, I think) have both positive messages and concerns. The positive messages are those that many of us automatically subscribe to when they are expressed at the highest level, such as 'freedom of expression. These are positive messages.
The concerns come because such desired states are often weakened by others, typically by governments but also by certain trends in other sectors. Hence the need, often expressed by RCSCs to be 'at the table' with other sectors, comes from the possibility that these positions will be eroded, consciously or unconsciously, by other sectors. The desire to be included is a quite understandable reaction to that possibility.
But what I don't understand is the intense internal process and disputes regarding who gets to represent a group that appears homogeneous at the top level. Is the homogeneity superficial? If so, it would be more useful to explore and understand the differences within the RCSC. Is the dispute based upon ideological purity of the process for selection? That seems counterproductive and generally a waste of time to me. Is the dispute based upon lack of trust among group members? Are there other reasons. Is the representation process an end in itself, regardless of its effect upon pursuing other CS goals. If so, then perhaps this should be reconstituted as a political science theory group.
It seems to me that rather than spending so much time discussing and debating representation issues, it would be more useful to discuss why representation issues are so important, often IMO to the detriment of working on real civil society issues.
I'm with Jeanette. Concentrate upon issues, and that means areas of agreement and disagreement with other sectors as well as within the RCSC community. Disputes about representation seem unproductive, unless they imply unaddressed issues within the community. If so, it surely seems more productive to address them directly rather than through this proxy dispute based on representation.
George
On Dec 10, 2013, at 10:29 AM, Jeanette Hofmann wrote:
> I fully agree with Rafik's concern. In fact, both the IGC and the
> bestbits list seem to have become rather obsessed with filling positions
> on various committtees.
>
> In another message from last week that probably got lost or still awaits
> the moderator's approvement, I noticed a growing madness about committee
> positions and other appointments which is more or less pushing aside
> the debate over issues and opinions.
>
> Besides, I also think that a distinction should be made between
> appointed experts and stakeholder representatives. Generally, I wished
> we paid less attention to the issue of representatives and focused more
> on the message we want to convey.
>
> jeanette
>
> Am 10.12.13 14:49, schrieb Rafik Dammak:
>> Hello,dfasfd
>>
>> I am wondering if we are not giving too much weight to HLM than it
>> should be and doing for it a free promotion! honestly, I was not in
>> favour of the ICANN strategic panels since they are not bottom-up,
>> formed by handpicked members and bypassing the usual process. I found
>> now that we want badly to be in that high level panel and making it
>> relevant and maybe even giving it a big role for Brazil meeting! hope
>> that we wont regret such decision later.
>>
>> we can ask for giving inputs, openness etc but that will be definitely
>> depending to the will ICANN/WEF/Anneberg Foundation and there won't be
>> any guarantee on how they process the inputs or how it will be included
>> in their deliverable. everything is ad-hoc there and any decision will
>> depend to the will of the organisers. why shall we encourage such process?
>>
>> Back to the previous discussion, Bill was invited as expert and the name
>> of panel is not "an expert group" , I don't see the confusion here.
>>
>> Rafik
>>
>>
>> 2013/12/10 Marilia Maciel <mariliamaciel at gmail.com
>> <mailto:mariliamaciel at gmail.com>>
>>
>> Milton is right about the (lack of) process. On the one hand, it is
>> positive that we have someone we trust there. On the other hand, it
>> does seem that they are including who they want and how they want,
>> totally disregarding the serious process we have been conducting to
>> appoint names.
>>
>> I think that a letter signed by all organizations that participated
>> in the nomination process should be sent to ICANN and ideally read
>> during the meeting, expressing our frustration and adding some
>> concrete suggestions. I come back to the points I made earlier:
>> - the agenda of the HL panel meetings should be publicized in advance
>> - channels to receive inputs (procedural or substantive) should be
>> created or clarified
>> - their meetings should be open to observers (like the meetings of
>> the CSTD ECWG)
>> - Reports of the meetings should be published. They could follow
>> Chatam House rules
>> And
>> - CS representatives (names), who were appointed following an
>> internal and legitimate process carried out by CS, should be
>> immediately included in the HL panel to ensure minimum CS
>> representation.
>>
>> Marília
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 8:35 AM, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch
>> <mailto:nb at bollow.ch>> wrote:
>>
>> Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu <mailto:mueller at syr.edu>> wrote:
>>
>> > The distinction between Bill's appointment as an expert and
>> the CS
>> > groups' nomination of people to be on the committee is not so
>> clear
>> > to me, and we cannot assume that it is clear to Fadi, especially
>> > since the London meeting of the group starts in two days.
>> Either one
>> > could be seen as Fadi making a concession to CS demands to be
>> > included in the HLLM, and he may consider one to be a
>> substitute for
>> > the other. At this stage, I would assume that if there is no
>> > appointment of another CS rep to the HL Panel by now, that
>> there will
>> > not be one at all, and Bill is all we will be given. The fact
>> that
>> > Bill's appointment came from a random F2F hallway meeting isn't
>> > something that inspires confidence, is it?
>>
>> +1
>>
>> Especially given that there was in fact a coordinated civil society
>> process through which names have been put forward.
>>
>> Greetings,
>> Norbert
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Marília Maciel*
>> Pesquisadora Gestora
>> Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade - FGV Direito Rio
>>
>> Researcher and Coordinator
>> Center for Technology & Society - FGV Law School
>> http://direitorio.fgv.br/cts
>>
>> DiploFoundation associate
>> www.diplomacy.edu <http://www.diplomacy.edu>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
>
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