[governance] Re: [bestbits] HLLM in LOndon - CS reps
Jean-Christophe Nothias
jeanchristophe.nothias at gmail.com
Mon Dec 9 13:23:39 EST 2013
All of this is very impressive! Does the lists feel comfortable with that type of situation?
It seems that, in this IG world, many things have no stable definition at all.
What's about the definition of 'trust', or 'respect'? Too complex?
I think what we observe here is not the right path to heal the 'governance gap'* , nor to come to a 'single definition of Internet Governance'**, nor to address 'orphan issues'*** and certainly not a good way to look at a 'single list of governance issues'****. And obviously not help to define a 'single set of principles'*****. We should not worry about that. Why? see below.
These 'expressions' are forbidden since ICANN48, as per Alejandro Pisanty, chair of ISOC Mexico, stated that these expressions have to be banned from the I stars (I*, 1Net, ISOC...) narrative. Surprisingly everyone in the room seemed to enjoy that rather odd collection of 'NO'! I need t to find a couple of speeches by notorious totalitarians using such a restrictive vision of a democratic debate.
Here what ISOC Mexico Chair suggested to all ISOCs around the planet:
*
"We should not accept the term 'governance gap'. That’s an invention that has been a very popular invention (inaudible) but we should not use it in our vocabulary."
**
"We should have 'no single definition of Internet governance'. We should push against the idea that the Brazil meeting, or anything else, will produce a definition of Internet Governance which would be good for everybody, every time and for many years. We have different definitions of Internet Governance depending of countries, regions, interests, religions and so forth and we should thrive for them to stay diverse."
***
"We should not use in our vocabulary ‘orphan issues’. It might be argued that there are organ, sorry orphan issues in IG but most of the time if something is an issue, there is already someone, some organization, couple of engineers trying to work on it. They may be not of enough scale or expertise to grow globally or to split up multi regionally. There are very few real orphan issues in IG. Many of the things that appear as orphan issues are not IG issue but legal issues. Your judges are not well trained to identify cybercrime as a form of crime, or you do not have that law but it’s a national law not a global law."
****
"We should not have a 'single list of issues for governance'. There are people who got it one way, people who got it another way. There are people who put spam and pfishing together. Other pfishing and cybersecurity together. Let that happen. Let these thousand flowers of definition blossom."
*****
"We should avoid to establish a 'single set of principles' which is among other things, one declared an objective of the Brazilian meeting. During the eight years of IGF, there are already been two dozens or so of IG definition. They are not all compatible."
etc, etc, etc...
Former president of South Africa, back in the 50's once explained to the media and their audiences, the meaning of 'APARTHEID'. "This Afrikaner word meant 'GOOD NEIGHBORING'. An expression of progress". A beautiful way to twist reality.
Manipulating and alluding people, erasing definitions, avoiding debates... All of these drive toward what the worst regimes can offer to its subordinates.
"We are the revolutionaries. They are the counter revolutionaries."
Comfortable?
JC
Off-list: Now that Bill is part of the HLP as an expert, members of the lists could kindly suggest that Bill serves as a CS liaison to the HLP. At the end of the day, that would have been a good way for ICANN to...
More trust coming.
Le 9 déc. 2013 à 18:18, Lee W McKnight a écrit :
> Point taken Milton given this ongoing rush of events, as much cs-self-transparency as possible is welcome/required, so thanks Bill for sharing and good luck!
>
> There is a difference in role/responsibility between being an appointed cs expert contributor and process facilitator, and designated CS rep.
>
> And there's room for more than a few more cesers in both categories I suggest, which would also help distribute the work-load.
>
> And, would lend further instant global credibility by demonstrate Fadi's/ICANN's/1net's/hllm's/whomever's good faith efforts to lead an all-inclusive step-forward effort towards and beyond Brazil.
>
> Lee
>
> PS Yeah Fadi that's a hint that we want more ; )
>
>
> From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] on behalf of Milton L Mueller [mueller at syr.edu]
> Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 11:53 AM
> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> Cc: bestbits at lists.bestbits.net> Best Bits
> Subject: RE: [governance] Re: [bestbits] HLLM in LOndon - CS reps
>
> Let me be indelicate enough to raise an issue that probably no one wants to deal with but needs to be raised. And despite certain appearances, it is not a personal interest here but a process one.
> The IGC, and several other groups, worked together to forward two recommended names to the President of ICANN.
>
> Congrats to some extent on being appointed to this HLLM, but your name was not on that CS-provided list, Bill. At this stage of the game I am certainly not suggesting that you turn it down, but one does want to know what kind of a process we are in and what kind of criteria are being applied?
>
> Other people are asking us for recommended lists of names for various positions. Aside from the usual junk associated with people positioning for these things, we need to assess the good faith and cooperative spirit of those who are making these requests. To put a finer point on it, what are the implications of CS being asked to provide recommended names, providing them, and then having a completely different name selected?
>
> I know it’s an uncomfortable topic but I think we’d have to be self-delusional not to discuss it.
>
> From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of William Drake
> Sent: Monday, December 9, 2013 4:57 AM
> To: Governance; Adam Peake
> Cc: McTim McTim; bestbits at lists.bestbits.net> Best Bits
> Subject: Re: [governance] Re: [bestbits] HLLM in LOndon - CS reps
>
> Hello
>
> I’ve mentioned this to a couple people privately and should probably state publicly as well that I will be participating in the High Level Panel process as an “expert” advisor, e.g. in London I’ll be giving a talk about the nature of IG, running a break out session, etc. I believe there may be a couple other people from other SGs similarly appointed, TBC. I don’t know how they intend to deal with the request for a CS “representative” panel member, but understand nothing will happen in time for the London meeting.
>
> I have suggested publicly announcing the agenda and providing options for people to provide written inputs, we’ll see what happens. The London meeting is in four days and there’s a lot late rushing around to pull it together, so it’s a bit difficult to predict exactly how everything will play out.
>
> Best,
>
> Bill
>
> **********************************************************
> William J. Drake
> International Fellow & Lecturer
> Media Change & Innovation Division, IPMZ
> University of Zurich, Switzerland
> Chair, Noncommercial Users Constituency,
> ICANN, www.ncuc.org
> william.drake at uzh.ch (w), wjdrake at gmail.com (h),
> www.williamdrake.org
> ***********************************************************
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 9, 2013, at 3:27 AM, Adam Peake <ajp at glocom.ac.jp> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Dec 8, 2013, at 11:34 PM, McTim wrote:
>
>
> cc list trimmed to only one list.
>
> /transcript-president-opening-18nov13-en.pdf
>
> "USC, University of Southern California-Annenberg Foundation as well
> as the World Economic Forum, the WEF, have partnered with us so we
> ensure that this panel has some level of independency and is functioning
> on a broader scale globally"
>
>
>
>
> WEF <http://www.weforum.org/content/global-agenda-council-future-internet-2012-2014>
>
> Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 10:49 PM, michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks for this Ian, could someone please explain to me what is meant by
> this fifth panel as more independent (in partnership with two other
> organizations.. Is he referring to Inet here? Who are the other two
> organizations?
>
>
>
> M
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net
> [mailto:bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net] On Behalf Of Ian Peter
> Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 10:34 AM
> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Adam Peake
> Cc: bestbits at lists.bestbits.net
> Subject: Re: [governance] Re: [bestbits] HLLM in LOndon - CS reps
>
>
>
> Hi Adam,
>
>
>
> Because it would be inappropriate I am deliberately not taking on a role of
> coordinating back to various networks as that is what the various reps
> should do. But here is the reply from Fadi to Robin (copied to the reps
> earlier).
>
>
>
> Hello Robin,
>
>
>
> I hope you had a good thanksgiving holiday. I took several days off and
> regained a lot of energy after our busy week in Buenos Aires. I just got
> back and ready for the next phase of work.
>
>
>
> As I noted below and in Buenos Aires, we were never in a position to grow
> the panel any further. In BA, however, after the panel was announced, we
> made a final commitment to add only one panelist from the cc community, and
> only one more from civil society -- understanding the need for broader
> participation. Byron Holland from the cc community agreed to serve while in
> Buenos Aires.
>
>
>
> At this stage, and now that we have established this fifth panel as more
> independent (in partnership with two other organizations), I will need to
> confer with our partners on your request, as well as with the Chairman of
> the panel. I predict that they will be sensitive to diversity.
>
>
>
> I cannot meet with the chairman until next week on Wednesday. I will keep
> you posted. It may be a little late for London but rest assured that Frank
> La Rue, Lynn St. Amour, and myself will have our communities interests very
> vigilantly on top of our agendas.
>
>
>
> Fadi
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Adam Peake
>
> Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 10:03 PM
>
> To: Ian Peter
>
> Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org ; bestbits at lists.bestbits.net
>
> Subject: [governance] Re: [bestbits] HLLM in LOndon - CS reps
>
>
>
> Hi Ian,
>
>
>
> Any reply to the CS coalition's recommendations? The high level panel is
> due to meet December 12-13 (London), a week from now.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> Adam
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 30, 2013, at 5:50 AM, Ian Peter wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Please find a letter just send to Fadi Chehade under my signatory as
>
>
> an independent facilitator as regards civil society representation at
>
>
> this meeting in two weeks time.
>
>
>
>
>
> Let me be the first to admit the process was imperfect, the result was
>
>
> imperfect. But so was the task we were given, the timeframe, the
>
>
> people involved in making the decision, and the facilitation process.
>
>
>
>
>
> I can only say that there was widespread agreement we should submit
>
>
> names, and for the names submitted. And that doing and saying nothing
>
>
> would have been the alternative in this timeframe.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Ian Peter
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 29 November 2013
>
>
> RE: Civil Society Representation on High Level Panel in London
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Fadi and Nora:
>
>
>
>
>
> I am writing to you following from discussions held by a coalition of
>
>
> representatives of the civil society networks most involved in
>
>
> Internet governance deliberations, we appreciate your willingness to
>
>
> engage civil society in discussions regarding the future of Internet
>
>
> governance. We also appreciate your recognition that civil society is
>
>
> under-represented on your High Level Panel and your willingness to
>
>
> accept additional civil society participants to this panel to provide
>
>
> more balance.
>
>
> After consultations with our networks, we propose adding the following
>
>
> 2 civil society representatives to begin to balance against the much
>
>
> larger numbers from government, the private sector, and technical
>
>
> representatives placed on the initial panel.
>
>
> Civil society’s two nominated representatives for the London High
>
>
> Level Panel are:
>
>
> 1. Anriette Esterhuysen (anriette at apc.org) 2. Milton Mueller
>
>
> (mueller at syr.edu) Would you please kindly confirm your acceptance of
>
>
> these names, and contact our representatives directly to arrange their
>
>
> participation?
>
>
> We also strongly recommend the involvement of Jovan Kurbalija of the
>
>
> Diplo Foundation as a highly experienced and knowledgeable
>
>
> facilitator.
>
>
> We trust that in future we will be able to look at much more equitable
>
>
> representation of civil society in such panels and committees.
>
>
> Persons involved with these deliberations and choice of names from
>
>
> various civil society networks were:
>
>
> Virginia Paque, Diplo Foundation
>
>
> Anriette Esterhuysen, Association for Progressive Communications (APC)
>
>
> Robin Gross, ICANN's Non-Commercial Stakeholders Group (NCSG) Norbert
>
>
> Bollow and Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro, Internet Governance Caucus
>
>
> (IGC)
>
>
> Jeremy Malcolm, Best Bits
>
>
> Signed,
>
>
> Ian Peter, Independent Facilitator
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
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