[governance] WGEC: Questionnaire on internet governance

Carlos A. Afonso ca at cafonso.ca
Fri Aug 30 10:49:46 EDT 2013 

BTW, "a WG members's organization" is a dubious phrase. We are there in
our personal capacities, but not as philosophic monks who need to be
isolated from our bases during the process.

--c.a.

On 08/30/2013 05:48 AM, William Drake wrote:
> 
> On Aug 30, 2013, at 10:00 AM, Adam Peake <ajp at glocom.ac.jp
> <mailto:ajp at glocom.ac.jp>> wrote:
> 
>> Dear Carlos,
>>
>> I did not say there were rules.  I did not suggest that a WG members's
>> organization could not/should not submit a contribution; on the
>> contrary I would expect organizations like APC, IT For Change (ISOC,
>> ICANN, etc etc) to submit comments, and hope they do.  But I am
>> uncomfortable with a WGEC member shopping around such contributions so
>> they become a statement of some stakeholder group or sub-set of (and I
>> guess by association imbued with some greater weight etc.)  
> 
> And if a WG members's organization does this, it would seem reasonable
> to expect the member to remain neutral, if not recused, when contrary CS
> views/inputs are discussed so that the full diversity of perspectives is
> allowed to blossom and no false sense of uniformity is established.
> 
> Bill
>>
>> Please relax, read what people have to say.  We are still allowed
>> opinions I hope.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 30, 2013, at 5:59 AM, Carlos A. Afonso wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Avri, I respect your position, of course.
>>>
>>> My understanding is that we are in the WGEC (like some of us were in the
>>> WGIG) because we are expected to bring to the dialogue what we think are
>>> the views of the stakeholders we are supposed to represent, and I think
>>> the questionnaire is a good (although imperfect) instrument to help
>>> convey these views. So, even if WGEC members themselves decided to
>>> respond and provide their views, I would welcome it.
>>>
>>> Thus, I do not agree we should exclude the organizations we are related
>>> to from this survey, and this is the position of several other
>>> participants who are helping to build institutional responses to the
>>> questionnaire.
>>>
>>> fraternal regards
>>>
>>> --c.a.
>>>
>>> On 08/29/2013 04:17 PM, Avri Doria wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I do not know Adam's reasons.
>>>>
>>>> I know my own reasons for not doing so.  
>>>>
>>>> I think that in order to the job in WGEC as I feel I should do it, I
>>>> should not be arguing for responses I have crafted, but rather
>>>> should be taking the input from others who are commenting, and from
>>>> the respective and understanding I bring,  do the analysis.  For
>>>> myself I beleive that if I contributed to the writing of several
>>>> proposals I would risk my objectivity in taking the work of others
>>>> and treating it fairly in the context of WGEC.  I also beleive that
>>>> my contributions in the WGEC might be colored, as if arguments I
>>>> would make in the WGEC were just a bolstering of opinions I had put
>>>> before the group in many other ways.
>>>>
>>>> I am speaking only for myself and the way I think such appointments
>>>> should be handled.  This is why I avoided active participation in
>>>> any of the several efforts I might have engaged in.
>>>>
>>>> You are right, there was no rule.  I am just doing the job in the
>>>> best way I know how.  I have followed this process many time before
>>>> and find it works for me.
>>>>
>>>> avri
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 29 Aug 2013, at 13:57, Carlos A. Afonso wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi people, as a member of WGEC, I do not recall any decision that would
>>>>> preclude its members' organizations from presenting their responses to
>>>>> the questionnaire. As is well known, WGEC (like the MAG) members are
>>>>> there in their personal capacities as members of stakeholder
>>>>> groups, not
>>>>> as reps or "ambassadors" of their respective organizations. Where did
>>>>> you get this from, Adam?
>>>>>
>>>>> fraternal regards
>>>>>
>>>>> --c.a.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 08/29/2013 08:07 AM, Adam Peake wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 29, 2013, at 7:17 PM, Avri Doria wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Perhaps he was referring to the statement Parminder is sending
>>>>>>> around looking for support.  It is perhaps confusing having two
>>>>>>> statements in circulation: one by the Best Bits and one by
>>>>>>> Parminder who is a participant in both the Best Bits collective
>>>>>>> and a member of the WGEC.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, not so good when working group members are advising
>>>>>> themselves in this way, multiple ways.  The IT for Change position
>>>>>> makes many unsubstantiated claims, and again repeats that the
>>>>>> Internet is a global commons, which it clearly is not (what's the
>>>>>> point of engaging in honest debate on this list if ignored for the
>>>>>> sake of some political doctrine?)  And bestbits, which I
>>>>>> personally disagree with enough not to be able to support, but it
>>>>>> much more thoughtful, but is also somewhat undermined by having WG
>>>>>> members as authors.  Poor process.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Adam
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> avri
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 28 Aug 2013, at 06:57, Jeremy Malcolm wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 27/08/2013, at 12:13 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian
>>>>>>>> <suresh at hserus.net <mailto:suresh at hserus.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 27-Aug-2013, at 7:21, Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:jeremy at ciroap.org>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Although the Caucus is a little fractured at the moment,
>>>>>>>>>> Norbert and Sala might nevertheless wish to gauge the feeling
>>>>>>>>>> of the Caucus towards signing on corporately.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It would help gain broader consensus if the worst bits of that
>>>>>>>>> statement were removed.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bringing ICANN under UN oversight, really?  
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Since there is nothing in the submission that suggests that, I
>>>>>>>> have to ask, did you read it?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>> Dr Jeremy Malcolm
>>>>>>>> Senior Policy Officer
>>>>>>>> Consumers International | the global campaigning voice for consumers
>>>>>>>> Office for Asia-Pacific and the Middle East
>>>>>>>> Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala
>>>>>>>> Lumpur, Malaysia
>>>>>>>> Tel: +60 3 7726 1599
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Explore our new Resource Zone - the global consumer movement
>>>>>>>> knowledge hub
>>>>>>>> |http://www.consumersinternational.org/news-and-media/resource-zone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> @Consumers_Int | www.consumersinternational.org
>>>>>>>> <http://www.consumersinternational.org> |
>>>>>>>> www.facebook.com/consumersinternational
>>>>>>>> <http://www.facebook.com/consumersinternational>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email
>>>>>>>> unless necessary.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> WARNING: This email has not been encrypted. You are strongly
>>>>>>>> recommended to enable PGP or S/MIME encryption at your end. For
>>>>>>>> instructions, see http://jere.my/l/8m.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>>>>>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
>>>>>>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>>>>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>>>>>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>>>>>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>>>>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>>>>>  governance at lists.igcaucus.org <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
>>>>>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>>>>>  http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>>>>>  http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>>>>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>>>>>  http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>    governance at lists.igcaucus.org <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> 
> **********************************************************
> William J. Drake
> International Fellow & Lecturer
>   Media Change & Innovation Division, IPMZ
>   University of Zurich, Switzerland
> Chair, Noncommercial Users Constituency, 
>   ICANN, www.ncuc.org <http://www.ncuc.org>
> william.drake at uzh.ch <mailto:william.drake at uzh.ch>
> (w), wjdrake at gmail.com <mailto:wjdrake at gmail.com> (h),
>   www.williamdrake.org <http://www.williamdrake.org>
> ***********************************************************
> 

-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

More information about the Governance mailing list