[governance] Secret Surveillance Puts Internet Governance System at Risk

[joy]

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Well said Avri - esp:

'As for Internet governance being at risk, I don't buy it.  Yes it again
shows us why governments can never be more than equal partners in the
participatory democracy that we call the multistakeholder model.  But it
again reinforces the need for all of us to be involved in Ig, and for us
all to fight for transparency and accountability without vilifying the
other.  Or at least that is the lesson I take from it.'
 

Joy

On 8/08/2013 1:07 a.m., Avri Doria wrote:
>
> On 7 Aug 2013, at 05:39, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote:
>
>> there are countries where Manning would have been tortured
>
>
> Suresh, I really do respect the way you stand up to those who wish to
make as much capital as possible from the sins of the US.  You have more
fortitude than I could ever muster. 
>
> However, several thoughts occur to me:
>
> - when we need to resort to examples such as N. Korea, Iran, Saudi
Arabia, and Russia or Uganda and  ...  to make excuses for our own sins
and infractions, we have already sunk too low;
>
> - when the rule of law is perverted as it has been in the US on the
FISA/Prism issue and by other governments on many other issues, we are
reminded of the frailty of the rule of law that always serves the regime
in power and the money behind their power and are reminded that often
law serves the basest instincts of people (e.g. in the US our common
fears can be used to excuse anything);
>
> - Manning was tortured to get a confession.  It might not have been
anything more that what the US has defined as extreme questioning, or
whatever euphemism we use, by most humanitarian definitions of torture
it was torture and we need to admit that we tortured and that this is
not the first tim we used torture for our security mania and we MUST stop;
>
> Neither am I one to beatify Manning or Snowden, I think that while
they did the world a favor I think they went about it quite badly and
they did break vows taken voluntarily. I understand civil disobedience
and the need sometimes to break a vow, but that does not excuse breaking
a vow, it just explains it and mitigates it. I also strongly beleive in
having good whistle blower protection and mechanism for revealing that
things that need to be revealed.  We mistreated Manning and I expect we
would do the same to Snowden if we ever got our hands on him.  So I
understand his wanting to stay out of our reach, though I would have
respected and supported him more had he stood his ground in his act of
civil disobedience.
>
> And yes I say we, for as long as I travel on a US passport and am
honored to be a civil society type who occasionally serves on US
delegations, I am responsible for what the US government does.
>
> As for Internet governance being at risk, I don't buy it.  Yes it
again shows us why governments can never be more than equal partners in
the participatory democracy that we call the multistakeholder model. 
But it again reinforces the need for all of us to be involved in Ig, and
for us all to fight for transparency and accountability without
vilifying the other.  Or at least that is the lesson I take from it.
>
> avri
>
>
>

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