[governance] Update from today's MAG call
parminder
parminder at itforchange.net
Sat Aug 3 02:52:54 EDT 2013
There is an interesting multistakeholderism* versus democracy dimension
to this - in fact, that is the main thing behind this discussion.
(I would use the term multistakeholderism* for that version of MSism
which is dominant in the IG space, while I do otherwise associate this
term MSism also with some rather benign versions that are subsumed
within democracy and do not try to stand above it.)
I have often argued on this list and other IG spaces that if we are so
particular about public policies only being made, finally, by
representatives of people and groups (however faulty that process of
representation may be) why do we abandon this principle at the global
level (which would mean giving UN a central role, and seeking
progressive improvements as we do at national levels). The answer I get
from MS-ism* proponents is that democracy may be well at the national
level, but it does not work at the global level, and thus a MS model
should be promoted .
Well enough, maybe something is quite incongruent at the global level to
be able to support democracy and its basic principles!
But, in the present discussion the logic is fully inverted.
We have established, and recently re-confirmed, democratic principles
and norms about a public policy participative space called the IGF. When
one insists that the same norms should apply at the regional level and
the national level, we are told that the conditions at regional and
national level are different..... And they may or may not support
application of such basic democratic norms....
What comes out of this seem to be that: whenever multistakeholderism*
confronts democracy, multistakeholderism* wins.....
That is the biggest problem for me with MSism*.... Its attempt to
trounce the democratic model rather than be subservient to it.
As said, democracy is a human right, and all public policy processes
should be subject to democratic norms and principles. To that extent, it
is not a matter of taking bottom up decisions.
Let me add another dimension to the MSism* versus democracy issue...
UN IGF does make it a necessary principle that all regional and national
IGFs should compulsorily be multistakeholder (whereby, I understand,
inclusion of business reps in all proceedings will be enforced as a
necessary criterion)... We may ask, why is this not left to a bottom up
decision, but democratic norm of neutral funding of public policy spaces
should be left to bottom up decision.
(In fact, it normal, say in India, to hold various public policy
meetings in various areas, and constitute committees etc - with only
pulbic interest actors, i.e, government agencies and civil society, and
often no one even thinks of including corporate players in all this.)
Why and how can multistakeholderism* principles be imposed top-down, but
not democratic principles, which should be left for each to decide for
itself?
Shows again, how the ideology of MSism* is becoming more powerful than
that of democracy. And this is a matter of great concern to my
organisation and the civil society networks that we work with..
parminder
parminder
On Saturday 03 August 2013 11:39 AM, parminder wrote:
>
> It is important to first agree on what the IGF is....
>
> One view may be that it is just an annual conference on IG (and
> George's latter email suggests that this is what he takes it to be).
>
> Another, and my, view, is to see the IGF as a new experiment in
> democracy.. In an earlier posting I had called it as representing
> version 3 of democracy where participative spaces are no longer ad hoc
> but attempted to be institutionalised, with an ongoing and a rather
> autonomous presence.
>
> Now, what norms we agree on for the IGF depends on how we see the IGF.
> One cannot be loosely shifting between these two conceptions, choosing
> norms that would rightly apply to one kind (for instance, the IGF
> being just a regular annual conference) and then, at other times,
> pushing its certain 'monopoly' legitimacy in the area of developing
> public policies.... That is the biggest problem in the current context.
>
> For those who consider the IGF just as any annual conference, my
> response is that the term 'IGF' came out of a world summit, and has a
> specific meaning and context attached to it. It cannot be loosely
> mis-used by anyone. And if they just want to arrange an annual
> conferece why do they not use any other name - why do they want to
> borrow from the special legitmacy of the IGF, given to it by a world
> summit, and thus seek to eat their cake and have it too.... This
> merits a clarification/ response.
>
> For those who really consider IGF as a special policy related body,
> they need to accept univeral democratic norms for public institutions,
> and there is nothing bottom up or top down about such democratic
> norms. Democracy is a human right, and human rights, and the norms
> related to them, are not open for different groups and communities to
> interpret as they would like to.
>
> Therefore, those who consider IGF just as an annual conference on IG
> are requested to chose another name for their conference, and not to
> usurp a term that the global community has already invested with a
> deep democratic meaning.
>
> And those who do consider the IGF as a key public policy related body,
> with an exclusive legitimacy of some kind, should then not swing
> between the above two possible conceptions of the IGF, and when it
> comes to funding try to see the IGF as just any conference, but for
> other purposes see it as a special policy related body.
>
> parminder
>
> On Friday 02 August 2013 09:35 PM, George Sadowsky wrote:
>> All,
>>
>> I think that national and regional IGFs should be able to make the
>> decisions regarding the nature of their IGFs that are consistent with
>> the needs an desires of those countries and regions. The IGF is not a
>> franchise operation within which the top can dictate the behavior of
>> the smaller meetings presumably feeding into it.
>>
>> In fact, it would be more appropriate if representatives of those
>> smaller meetings agreed upon the policies associated with the global
>> IGF, not the other way around. This should not be a top down operation.
>>
>> The reason that the "no commercial recognition" policy applies to the
>> global IGF is that it is a UN sponsord meetng, and therefore UN rules
>> apply. This is not true for regional and national IGFs.
>>
>> Note that I am not saying anything about the desirability or
>> non-desirability of such a policy at lower levels, but rather that it
>> is their decision to make on an individual basis, not a decision or
>> even a recommendation that should be made at a global level.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 2, 2013, at 5:49 PM, parminder wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Friday 02 August 2013 02:09 PM, Grace Githaiga wrote:
>>>> "Can one now expect that this is also made a basic condition for
>>>> regional and national IGFs, among some basic conditions that are
>>>> listed for such initiatives, and these conditions are enforced".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Parminder, can you clarify on this sentence?
>>>>
>>>> In my opinion, I do not think that this is a sound proposal to
>>>> start imposing conditions on say national IGFs. Is
>>>> multistakeholdersim not about getting all stakeholders on board to
>>>> discuss these issues? For example if say Kenya is holding the Kenya
>>>> IGF and a telco company decides it will put in money since it has
>>>> been part of the process, should that not be accepted? At KICTANet,
>>>> we have a multistakeholder model that brings even the corporate
>>>> stakeholders on board, NOT necessarily to influence the IGF but as
>>>> partners. Further, different national IGFs have different models
>>>> of fundraising. What works in Kenya may not work in say Tanzania.
>>>> Kindly clarify.
>>>
>>> Grace,
>>>
>>> Happy to clarify.
>>>
>>> First of all, it should be clear that I only seek that those
>>> conditions be made applicable to national and regional IGFs that
>>> many of us here ( as also the UN IGF MAG Chair and others) agree
>>> that it is appropriate and necessary to apply to the UN IGF.
>>>
>>> Inter alia, such conditions are that while private companies can
>>> donate money to the IGF, which goes into a trust fund, all measures
>>> will be taken to ensure that there is not the least possibility of
>>> any quid pro quo at all for these donations, including providing
>>> positions on the MAG, giving speaking/ chairing slots, special
>>> recommendations for speaking slots, special invitations to what
>>> could otherwise be selectively closed high-level (policy related)
>>> meetings, logos in and around the spaces where actual policy
>>> deliberation takes place, and so on....
>>>
>>> Do you indeed disagree with my position, whereby do you think that
>>> these above conditions, with regard to policy spaces, that
>>> democratic propriety demands UN IGF must observe, should not be made
>>> applicable to national or regional IGFs?
>>>
>>> Before I go on, I just want to make sure that I really understand
>>> what you are saying here, and you understand my position.
>>>
>>> parminder
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rgds
>>>> GG
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 09:38:55 +0530
>>>> From: parminder at itforchange.net
>>>> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [governance] Update from today's MAG call
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Kudos to Markus for making a such clear affirmative statement on
>>>> the isuue of commercialisation of IGF...... And for also having
>>>> strongly disapproved of the Indonesian fund raising document/
>>>> strategy in February itself, and for asking the local organising
>>>> team to discontinue it and take the document off their website. To
>>>> make things clear in such strong words is really good " the only
>>>> thing that can be sold on the premises of the UN meeting is food,
>>>> and that has to be at a reasonable price".
>>>>
>>>> Can one now expect that this is also made a basic condition for
>>>> regional and national IGFs, among some basic conditions that are
>>>> listed for such initiatives, and these conditions are enforced.
>>>> Safeguarding policy spaces from commercial/ corporatist influences
>>>> is as important at regional and national levels as at the global level.
>>>>
>>>> As mentioned earlier, I remain rather concerned that the Chair of
>>>> Asia Pacific IGF called the provisions in the controversial
>>>> Indonesian IGF fund raising document as, and I quote
>>>>
>>>> ".....providing some traditional "value" back to contributors. The
>>>> deal is nothing new - it seems to be a rather standard sponsorship
>>>> arrangement."
>>>>
>>>> If indeed it was a rather standard sponsorship document, why did
>>>> then the MAG Chair disapprove of it and ask for its withdrawal?
>>>>
>>>> I am not sure therefore how they do it at the AP IGF, but I do see
>>>> enough reason to be concerned about it. If any clarification in
>>>> this regard is to be forthcoming, I would welcome it.
>>>>
>>>> There seems to be a consdierable lack of clarity about what the
>>>> IGFs - as a somewhat formal (and therefore, and to that extent,
>>>> monopolistic) 'policy dialogue space' and a new insitutionalised
>>>> form of 'participation in governance' and a new experiment in
>>>> participative democracy - mean and how they must be organised, and
>>>> strongly insulated from private interests. And for this sake, one
>>>> need to be almost paranoidly pro-active rather than being slack and
>>>> accommodative. Insitutions of democracy are built with such extreme
>>>> care and caution, and being stickler to basic norms.
>>>>
>>>> parminder
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday 31 July 2013 06:32 PM, Norbert Bollow wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Here's a quick update from today's MAG call (I listened in as an
>>>> observer.)
>>>>
>>>> Almost all of the discussion was around how to proceed in regard to
>>>> 2013 IGF meeting. Markus said that cancellation is not an option. There
>>>> are two serious expressions of interest from potential host countries
>>>> to step in on short notice if Bali doesn't work out. Failing that,
>>>> there's the option of having the meeting at the relevant UN HQ, which
>>>> for the IGF would mean Geneva, but since it might be difficult to get
>>>> so many rooms, that might mean that only a scaled down meeting could be
>>>> held. Also hotel rooms can be problematic in Geneva. Google/Vint Cerf is
>>>> willing to do a fundraising effort to try and save the Bali IGF. Some
>>>> preliminary news, on the basis of which the MAG might be able to
>>>> recommend something, is hoped for by the end of next week.
>>>>
>>>> The current recommendation is not to cancel flights to Bali that have
>>>> already been booked, but also not to book a flight to Bali if you have
>>>> not booked yet.
>>>>
>>>> The commercialization problem was only touched on briefly. Markus said
>>>> that the basic rules are fairly simple: UN meetings cannot be
>>>> commercialized, there can be no sponsor's logos on the premises of the
>>>> UN meeting (and this rule has been enforced, he gave an example where a
>>>> compromise had been made in which sponsor's banners were put up outside
>>>> the premises of the UN meeting but in a place where they were visible
>>>> from the meeting's cafeteria), the only thing that can be sold on the
>>>> premises of the UN meeting is food and that has to be at a reasonable
>>>> price.
>>>>
>>>> So it seems clear that the IGF is not in direct danger of getting
>>>> commercialized - that objectionable Indonesian fundraising strategy has
>>>> simply been declared dead.
>>>>
>>>> Greetings,
>>>> Norbert
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>
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