[governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs

[Riaz K Tayob]

Thanks Daniel for this. You put it succinctly, that power does matter a 
great deal - and it may not be all that matters, but it is the 
determining factor in many instances...

Using this analysis/perspective it is possible to categorise the various 
strands of views on CIR and internet governance,: namely the 
evolutionists, the Social Darwinists (as distinct from the 
evolutionists) which is quite vogue on this list for ethical or 
pragmatic reasons, realists, pragmatists... and also helps to locate 
where the reformists (accomodationist reform, or transformative) 
regarding CIR...

Yours is a better stated position than most because of its clarity and 
simplicity. Not that I agree, but it is stated in a way without 
obfuscation of issues... it is one thing to say power matters, it is 
quite another to say there is an ethical basis for the power (which some 
reformists use to coat the NECESSITY of engagement)... when this is 
clearly understood, then those with ethical positions can certainly call 
to task the ethics of the reformists who engage...

On 2012/09/11 03:33 PM, Daniel Kalchev wrote:
> On 11.09.12 14:24, parminder wrote:
>>
>> On Tuesday 11 September 2012 03:54 PM, Riaz K Tayob wrote:
>>> Parminder
>>>
>>> One can put is also differently... if it is just US law then it does 
>>> have de facto global application...
>>
>> Of course, it is so. Riaz. The exceptions to general rule of national 
>> territoriality of jurisdictions has mostly been to US's benefit, 
>> given its global power. The principle target of my argument was the 
>> proposition that other countries, especially developing ones, could 
>> exercise their jurisdiction, to a significant extent, over an US 
>> based institution. I simply see no basis for it.
>
> There is one fundamental problem with exercising one's sovereignty: 
> you remain isolated.
> Example: the former "East Block" -- it has all the sovereignty it 
> desired but it came with certain isolation from the rest of the world.
> Other examples are the various countries that experiment with their 
> sovereignty only to discover they are subject to some sort of embargo.
> The world has always been this way, since "laws" exist. Most laws have 
> as their primary purpose to restrict the individual's freedom (their 
> ability to exercise their very own sovereignty) in exchange for 
> "public good" promises etc.
>
>> While on the issue, exceptions to international law have also mostly 
>> been exercised by the US, again, because of its global power.
>>
>
> Everyone discovers one day that justice is always on the side of the 
> stronger party. It has been so for millenniums.
> It is the lion that eats the gazelle and would not care less if the 
> gazelle intends to exercise it's sovereignty in any way.
>
> A while ago we discussed what everyone and anyone can do to behave on 
> Internet. Many people mistakenly believe that ICANN has any powers 
> when it comes to operation of the Internet. ICANN is just a forum. 
> Even if you could usurp an forum, that won't change anything.
>
> If someone wants their country to become important player in Internet, 
> then just make it so: invest in whatever infrastructure and services 
> it takes and that country will be important player in Internet.
> Typically, insistence by strangers that they should control something, 
> that someone else built is ignored -- unless those strangers turn out 
> to be the prevailing party...
>
> Daniel
>

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