From jefsey at jefsey.com Sat Sep 1 05:10:46 2012 From: jefsey at jefsey.com (JFC Morfin) Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2012 11:10:46 +0200 Subject: [governance] Starving the Future In-Reply-To: <503F9501.8090201@panamo.eu> References: <503F9501.8090201@panamo.eu> Message-ID: At 18:29 30/08/2012, Dominique Lacroix wrote: >http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/25/opinion/blow-starving-the-future.html They do not even house the babies: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/02/opinion/sunday/young-and-homeless.html Charity Gamboa says that money goes to technology: now, IAB, IETF, IEEE, ISOC, W3C are market driven: http://open-stand.org Interesting that no one cares the change. Another "solitary campaign" for me: http://open-use.org jfc -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From baudouin.schombe at gmail.com Sat Sep 1 06:25:19 2012 From: baudouin.schombe at gmail.com (Baudouin Schombe) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2012 11:25:19 +0100 Subject: [governance] visas for azerbaijan on arrival In-Reply-To: References: <5028E26F.6020805@cafonso.ca> Message-ID: Hello, I'm in the same situation and I do not understand what is happening. No response so far. Baudouin 2012/8/27 Ginger Paque > Has anyone received the described letter for the visa on arrival, after > emailing visainquiries at igf2012.az ? > I emailed August 13, but have had no response. > Does anyone have more information? I don't want to re-send if it is just a > matter of giving them time... > > I refer to: > > b) Host Country’s Invitation letter which can be obtained by the > participant if they send an email request with their ‘confirmation of > registration’-form and the scanned passport copy to the host country's IGF > visa support desk at visainquiries at igf2012.az > > Thanks, > Ginger > Ginger (Virginia) Paque > > > > Foreigners or stateless persons coming to the Republic of Azerbaijan for > Internet Governance Forum-2012, which will be held in Baku, can receive > visas from the structural sections of the Consular Department of the > Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Azerbaijan, which are > located in the Baku Heydar Aliyev International Airport or from the > Consular Depatments of the Republic of Azerbaijan located in foreign > countries. > > *The upon arrival visa application period starts from 15 October to 8 > November, 2012. > There are two supporting documents which will serve as the basis for > granting the visa:* > > a) ‘Confirmation of registration’-form which will be provided by the IGF > Secretariat at http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/ > and > b) Host Country’s Invitation letter which can be obtained by the > participant if they send an email request with their ‘confirmation of > registration’-form and the scanned passport copy to the host country's IGF > visa support desk at visainquiries at igf2012.az > > VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu > Diplo Foundation > Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme > www.diplomacy.edu/ig > ** > ** > > > > On 14 August 2012 04:56, Adam Peake wrote: > >> Baudouin, Hi. >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 10:46 PM, Baudouin Schombe >> wrote: >> > Hello, >> > For countries that have no diplomatic representation, is it possible to >> have >> > the visa on arrival? >> > >> >> Yes, exactly. If your country does not have and Azerbaijan >> embassy/consular office you can get a visa on arrival. >> >> See the link Carlos provided >> for more >> information about the forms you need. >> >> Adam >> >> >> >> > >> > I think these are provisions that must be considered! >> > >> > Baudouin >> > >> > 2012/8/13 Mawaki Chango >> >> >> >> [Sigh of relief] Thanks! >> >> >> >> m. >> >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 8:29 AM, Adam Peake wrote: >> >> > On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Carlos A. Afonso >> wrote: >> >> >> Hi people, >> >> >> >> >> >> Maybe most of you have already seen this info. >> >> >> >> >> >> I've just got confirmation email of my registration for Baku IGF >> >> >> reminding me of the info regarding visas in the IGF 2012 website. I >> >> >> think the issues regarding visas are settled now (see below). There >> is >> >> >> no info on costs though. >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > My understanding is that the visa will be free. However, checking >> >> > this and will get back with confirmation. >> >> > >> >> > Adam >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> frt rgds >> >> >> >> >> >> --c.a. >> >> >> >> >> >> http://igf2012.com/?mod=content&sub=bottom&id=116&lang=en >> >> >> >> >> >> General information >> >> >> >> >> >> Foreigners or stateless persons coming to the Republic of Azerbaijan >> >> >> for >> >> >> Internet Governance Forum-2012, which will be held in Baku, can >> receive >> >> >> visas from the structural sections of the Consular Department of the >> >> >> Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Azerbaijan, which are >> >> >> located in the Baku Heydar Aliyev International Airport or from the >> >> >> Consular Depatments of the Republic of Azerbaijan located in foreign >> >> >> countries. >> >> >> >> >> >> The upon arrival visa application period starts from 15 October to 8 >> >> >> November, 2012. There are two supporting documents which will serve >> as >> >> >> the basis for granting the visa: >> >> >> >> >> >> a) ‘Confirmation of registration’-form which will be provided by the >> >> >> IGF >> >> >> Secretariat at http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/ >> >> >> and >> >> >> b) Host Country’s Invitation letter which can be obtained by the >> >> >> participant if they send an email request with their ‘confirmation >> of >> >> >> registration’-form and the scanned passport copy to the host >> country's >> >> >> IGF visa support desk at visainquiries at igf2012.az >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> >> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> >> >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> >> >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> >> >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> >> >> >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> >> >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> >> >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> >> >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> >> >> >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > ____________________________________________________________ >> >> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> >> > governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> >> > To be removed from the list, visit: >> >> > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> > >> >> > For all other list information and functions, see: >> >> > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> >> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> >> > http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> > >> >> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN >> > CENTRE AFRICAIN D'ECHANGE CULTUREL/ >> > ACADEMIE DES TIC >> > FACILITATEUR GAID/AFRIQUE Membre >> > At-Large Member >> > NCSG Member >> > >> > email:baudouin.schombe at gmail.com >> > baudouin.schombe at ticafrica.net >> > tél:+243998983491 >> > skype:b.schombe >> > wite web:http://webmail.ticafrica.net >> > blog:http://akimambo.unblog.fr >> > >> > >> > ____________________________________________________________ >> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> > governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> > To be removed from the list, visit: >> > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> > >> > For all other list information and functions, see: >> > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> > http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> > >> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> > >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN CENTRE AFRICAIN D'ECHANGE CULTUREL/ ACADEMIE DES TIC FACILITATEUR GAID/AFRIQUE Membre At-Large Member NCSG Member email:baudouin.schombe at gmail.com baudouin.schombe at ticafrica.net tél:+243998983491 skype:b.schombe wite web:http://webmail.ticafrica.net blog:http://akimambo.unblog.fr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From dl at panamo.eu Sat Sep 1 07:13:46 2012 From: dl at panamo.eu (Dominique Lacroix) Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2012 13:13:46 +0200 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220B5DE@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> References: <50332E85.8060106@itforchange.net> <50333A5C.7060908@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD21F9B4D@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <5038BD70.7080909@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD22082FD@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <503F0CA3.3020801@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220B5DE@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: <5041EDEA.2050903@panamo.eu> Le 31/08/12 23:44, Milton L Mueller a écrit : > */[Milton L Mueller] It was decided when ICANN was created that it > would NOT be immune from antitrust law. /* Thank you Milton. That seems an important point, indeed. I'd like a lot to learn from you where that decision was written? Some can consider that as long as the USG oversights ICANN, it means that ICANN should escape anti-trust laws. Other claim that ICANN is nearly an international ONG, that should receive a sort of immunity. Actually, in the recent .XXX trial, ICANN alleged: "/ICANN does not engage in “trade or commerce./” Microsoft Word - JD_3157966_2.DOCX 12. "/ICANN is engaged in “charitable //(Noncommercial) and public” activities intended to “lessen[] the burdens of government and promot[e] //the global public interest in the operational stability of the Internet./” Microsoft Word - JD_3157966_2.DO From:ICANN's Motion to Dismiss Complaint [PDF, 235 KB] The true nature and rules of Internet Governance (IG) may be sometimes uneasy to clarify for people in Europe. I don't dare imagine what a nightmare it could be for us, you and me, if IG was managed by Indians or Chinese people (just as examples), with devanagari or hanzi writings, Indians or Chinese laws, Indian or judicial systems, etc. Best, Microsoft Word - JD_3157966_2.DOCX @+, Dominique -- Dominique Lacroix Société européenne de l'Internet http://www.ies-france.eu +33 (0)6 63 24 39 14 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From gpaque at gmail.com Sat Sep 1 09:31:41 2012 From: gpaque at gmail.com (Ginger Paque) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2012 08:31:41 -0500 Subject: [governance] visas for azerbaijan on arrival In-Reply-To: References: <5028E26F.6020805@cafonso.ca> Message-ID: Hi Baudouin, I re-sent my original email, and got a response saying that my email had been received and was in processing or accepted. I am now waiting for another response. Good luck. Ginger Ginger (Virginia) Paque VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu Diplo Foundation Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme www.diplomacy.edu/ig ** ** On 1 September 2012 05:25, Baudouin Schombe wrote: > Hello, > > I'm in the same situation and I do not understand what is happening. No > response so far. > > Baudouin > > 2012/8/27 Ginger Paque > >> Has anyone received the described letter for the visa on arrival, after >> emailing visainquiries at igf2012.az ? >> I emailed August 13, but have had no response. >> Does anyone have more information? I don't want to re-send if it is just >> a matter of giving them time... >> >> I refer to: >> >> b) Host Country’s Invitation letter which can be obtained by the >> participant if they send an email request with their ‘confirmation of >> registration’-form and the scanned passport copy to the host country's IGF >> visa support desk at visainquiries at igf2012.az >> >> Thanks, >> Ginger >> Ginger (Virginia) Paque >> >> >> >> Foreigners or stateless persons coming to the Republic of Azerbaijan for >> Internet Governance Forum-2012, which will be held in Baku, can receive >> visas from the structural sections of the Consular Department of the >> Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Azerbaijan, which are >> located in the Baku Heydar Aliyev International Airport or from the >> Consular Depatments of the Republic of Azerbaijan located in foreign >> countries. >> >> *The upon arrival visa application period starts from 15 October to 8 >> November, 2012. >> There are two supporting documents which will serve as the basis for >> granting the visa:* >> >> a) ‘Confirmation of registration’-form which will be provided by the IGF >> Secretariat at http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/ >> and >> b) Host Country’s Invitation letter which can be obtained by the >> participant if they send an email request with their ‘confirmation of >> registration’-form and the scanned passport copy to the host country's IGF >> visa support desk at visainquiries at igf2012.az >> >> VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu >> Diplo Foundation >> Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme >> www.diplomacy.edu/ig >> ** >> ** >> >> >> >> On 14 August 2012 04:56, Adam Peake wrote: >> >>> Baudouin, Hi. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 10:46 PM, Baudouin Schombe >>> wrote: >>> > Hello, >>> > For countries that have no diplomatic representation, is it possible >>> to have >>> > the visa on arrival? >>> > >>> >>> Yes, exactly. If your country does not have and Azerbaijan >>> embassy/consular office you can get a visa on arrival. >>> >>> See the link Carlos provided >>> for more >>> information about the forms you need. >>> >>> Adam >>> >>> >>> >>> > >>> > I think these are provisions that must be considered! >>> > >>> > Baudouin >>> > >>> > 2012/8/13 Mawaki Chango >>> >> >>> >> [Sigh of relief] Thanks! >>> >> >>> >> m. >>> >> >>> >> On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 8:29 AM, Adam Peake wrote: >>> >> > On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Carlos A. Afonso >>> wrote: >>> >> >> Hi people, >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Maybe most of you have already seen this info. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> I've just got confirmation email of my registration for Baku IGF >>> >> >> reminding me of the info regarding visas in the IGF 2012 website. I >>> >> >> think the issues regarding visas are settled now (see below). >>> There is >>> >> >> no info on costs though. >>> >> >> >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > My understanding is that the visa will be free. However, checking >>> >> > this and will get back with confirmation. >>> >> > >>> >> > Adam >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> >> frt rgds >>> >> >> >>> >> >> --c.a. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> http://igf2012.com/?mod=content&sub=bottom&id=116&lang=en >>> >> >> >>> >> >> General information >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Foreigners or stateless persons coming to the Republic of >>> Azerbaijan >>> >> >> for >>> >> >> Internet Governance Forum-2012, which will be held in Baku, can >>> receive >>> >> >> visas from the structural sections of the Consular Department of >>> the >>> >> >> Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Azerbaijan, which >>> are >>> >> >> located in the Baku Heydar Aliyev International Airport or from the >>> >> >> Consular Depatments of the Republic of Azerbaijan located in >>> foreign >>> >> >> countries. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> The upon arrival visa application period starts from 15 October to >>> 8 >>> >> >> November, 2012. There are two supporting documents which will >>> serve as >>> >> >> the basis for granting the visa: >>> >> >> >>> >> >> a) ‘Confirmation of registration’-form which will be provided by >>> the >>> >> >> IGF >>> >> >> Secretariat at http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/ >>> >> >> and >>> >> >> b) Host Country’s Invitation letter which can be obtained by the >>> >> >> participant if they send an email request with their ‘confirmation >>> of >>> >> >> registration’-form and the scanned passport copy to the host >>> country's >>> >> >> IGF visa support desk at visainquiries at igf2012.az >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >>> >> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>> >> >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >>> >> >> To be removed from the list, visit: >>> >> >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >>> >> >> >>> >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >>> >> >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >>> >> >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>> >> >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >>> >> >> >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > ____________________________________________________________ >>> >> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>> >> > governance at lists.igcaucus.org >>> >> > To be removed from the list, visit: >>> >> > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >>> >> > >>> >> > For all other list information and functions, see: >>> >> > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >>> >> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>> >> > http://www.igcaucus.org/ >>> >> > >>> >> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> ____________________________________________________________ >>> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>> >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >>> >> To be removed from the list, visit: >>> >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >>> >> >>> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >>> >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >>> >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>> >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >>> >> >>> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN >>> > CENTRE AFRICAIN D'ECHANGE CULTUREL/ >>> > ACADEMIE DES TIC >>> > FACILITATEUR GAID/AFRIQUE Membre >>> > At-Large Member >>> > NCSG Member >>> > >>> > email:baudouin.schombe at gmail.com >>> > baudouin.schombe at ticafrica.net >>> > tél:+243998983491 >>> > skype:b.schombe >>> > wite web:http://webmail.ticafrica.net >>> > blog:http://akimambo.unblog.fr >>> > >>> > >>> > ____________________________________________________________ >>> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>> > governance at lists.igcaucus.org >>> > To be removed from the list, visit: >>> > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >>> > >>> > For all other list information and functions, see: >>> > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >>> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>> > http://www.igcaucus.org/ >>> > >>> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >>> > >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >>> To be removed from the list, visit: >>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >>> >>> For all other list information and functions, see: >>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >>> >>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >>> >>> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > > -- > SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN > CENTRE AFRICAIN D'ECHANGE CULTUREL/ > ACADEMIE DES TIC > FACILITATEUR GAID/AFRIQUE Membre > At-Large Member > NCSG Member > > email:baudouin.schombe at gmail.com > baudouin.schombe at ticafrica.net > tél:+243998983491 > skype:b.schombe > wite web:http://webmail.ticafrica.net > blog:http://akimambo.unblog.fr > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Sat Sep 1 09:50:55 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2012 19:20:55 +0530 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: <5041EDEA.2050903@panamo.eu> References: <50332E85.8060106@itforchange.net> <50333A5C.7060908@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD21F9B4D@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <5038BD70.7080909@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD22082FD@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <503F0CA3.3020801@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220B5DE@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <5041EDEA.2050903@panamo.eu> Message-ID: If it were managed by the Indian government you would probably only be able to register domains Jan - April and then you'd have to file the list of domains in writing with the revenue office. Indeed ICANN *IS* doing a splendid job in terms of a clean simple non-bureaucratic process for the public. -C On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 4:43 PM, Dominique Lacroix
wrote: > Le 31/08/12 23:44, Milton L Mueller a écrit : > > *[Milton L Mueller] It was decided when ICANN was created that it would > NOT be immune from antitrust law. * > > Thank you Milton. That seems an important point, indeed. > I'd like a lot to learn from you where that decision was written? > Some can consider that as long as the USG oversights ICANN, it means that > ICANN should escape anti-trust laws. > Other claim that ICANN is nearly an international ONG, that should receive > a sort of immunity. > > Actually, in the recent .XXX trial, ICANN alleged: > > "*ICANN does not engage in “trade or commerce.*” > > > 1. > > "*ICANN is engaged in “charitable **(Noncommercial) and public” > activities intended to “lessen[] the burdens of government and promot[e] > **the global public interest in the operational stability of the > Internet.*” > > > > > From:ICANN's Motion to Dismiss Complaint[PDF, 235 KB] > > The true nature and rules of Internet Governance (IG) may be sometimes > uneasy to clarify for people in Europe. I don't dare imagine what a > nightmare it could be for us, you and me, if IG was managed by Indians or > Chinese people (just as examples), with devanagari or hanzi writings, > Indians or Chinese laws, Indian or judicial systems, etc. > > > Best, > > @+, Dominique > > -- > Dominique Lacroix > Société européenne de l'Internethttp://www.ies-france.eu > +33 (0)6 63 24 39 14 > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ggithaiga at hotmail.com Sat Sep 1 09:58:51 2012 From: ggithaiga at hotmail.com (Grace Githaiga) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2012 13:58:51 +0000 Subject: [governance] visas for azerbaijan on arrival In-Reply-To: References: <5028E26F.6020805@cafonso.ca>,,,,, , Message-ID: Hi Ginger Your letter should come soon. I just got my confirmation/invitation letter yesterday evening. RgdsGrace From: gpaque at gmail.com Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2012 08:31:41 -0500 To: baudouin.schombe at gmail.com CC: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; ajp at glocom.ac.jp Subject: Re: [governance] visas for azerbaijan on arrival Hi Baudouin, I re-sent my original email, and got a response saying that my email had been received and was in processing or accepted. I am now waiting for another response. Good luck. Ginger Ginger (Virginia) Paque VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu Diplo Foundation Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme www.diplomacy.edu/ig On 1 September 2012 05:25, Baudouin Schombe wrote: Hello, I'm in the same situation and I do not understand what is happening. No response so far. Baudouin 2012/8/27 Ginger Paque Has anyone received the described letter for the visa on arrival, after emailing visainquiries at igf2012.az ? I emailed August 13, but have had no response. Does anyone have more information? I don't want to re-send if it is just a matter of giving them time... I refer to: b) Host Country’s Invitation letter which can be obtained by the participant if they send an email request with their ‘confirmation of registration’-form and the scanned passport copy to the host country's IGF visa support desk at visainquiries at igf2012.az Thanks, GingerGinger (Virginia) Paque Foreigners or stateless persons coming to the Republic of Azerbaijan for Internet Governance Forum-2012, which will be held in Baku, can receive visas from the structural sections of the Consular Department of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Azerbaijan, which are located in the Baku Heydar Aliyev International Airport or from the Consular Depatments of the Republic of Azerbaijan located in foreign countries. The upon arrival visa application period starts from 15 October to 8 November, 2012. There are two supporting documents which will serve as the basis for granting the visa: a) ‘Confirmation of registration’-form which will be provided by the IGF Secretariat at http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/ and b) Host Country’s Invitation letter which can be obtained by the participant if they send an email request with their ‘confirmation of registration’-form and the scanned passport copy to the host country's IGF visa support desk at visainquiries at igf2012.az VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu Diplo Foundation Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme www.diplomacy.edu/ig On 14 August 2012 04:56, Adam Peake wrote: Baudouin, Hi. On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 10:46 PM, Baudouin Schombe wrote: > Hello, > For countries that have no diplomatic representation, is it possible to have > the visa on arrival? > Yes, exactly. If your country does not have and Azerbaijan embassy/consular office you can get a visa on arrival. See the link Carlos provided for more information about the forms you need. Adam > > I think these are provisions that must be considered! > > Baudouin > > 2012/8/13 Mawaki Chango >> >> [Sigh of relief] Thanks! >> >> m. >> >> On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 8:29 AM, Adam Peake wrote: >> > On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Carlos A. Afonso wrote: >> >> Hi people, >> >> >> >> Maybe most of you have already seen this info. >> >> >> >> I've just got confirmation email of my registration for Baku IGF >> >> reminding me of the info regarding visas in the IGF 2012 website. I >> >> think the issues regarding visas are settled now (see below). There is >> >> no info on costs though. >> >> >> > >> > >> > My understanding is that the visa will be free. However, checking >> > this and will get back with confirmation. >> > >> > Adam >> > >> > >> > >> >> frt rgds >> >> >> >> --c.a. >> >> >> >> http://igf2012.com/?mod=content&sub=bottom&id=116&lang=en >> >> >> >> General information >> >> >> >> Foreigners or stateless persons coming to the Republic of Azerbaijan >> >> for >> >> Internet Governance Forum-2012, which will be held in Baku, can receive >> >> visas from the structural sections of the Consular Department of the >> >> Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Azerbaijan, which are >> >> located in the Baku Heydar Aliyev International Airport or from the >> >> Consular Depatments of the Republic of Azerbaijan located in foreign >> >> countries. >> >> >> >> The upon arrival visa application period starts from 15 October to 8 >> >> November, 2012. There are two supporting documents which will serve as >> >> the basis for granting the visa: >> >> >> >> a) ‘Confirmation of registration’-form which will be provided by the >> >> IGF >> >> Secretariat at http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/ >> >> and >> >> b) Host Country’s Invitation letter which can be obtained by the >> >> participant if they send an email request with their ‘confirmation of >> >> registration’-form and the scanned passport copy to the host country's >> >> IGF visa support desk at visainquiries at igf2012.az >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> >> > >> > >> > ____________________________________________________________ >> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> > governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> > To be removed from the list, visit: >> > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> > >> > For all other list information and functions, see: >> > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> > http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> > >> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> > >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> > > > > -- > SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN > CENTRE AFRICAIN D'ECHANGE CULTUREL/ > ACADEMIE DES TIC > FACILITATEUR GAID/AFRIQUE Membre > At-Large Member > NCSG Member > > email:baudouin.schombe at gmail.com > baudouin.schombe at ticafrica.net > tél:+243998983491 > skype:b.schombe > wite web:http://webmail.ticafrica.net > blog:http://akimambo.unblog.fr > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -- SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN CENTRE AFRICAIN D'ECHANGE CULTUREL/ ACADEMIE DES TIC FACILITATEUR GAID/AFRIQUE Membre At-Large Member NCSG Member email:baudouin.schombe at gmail.com baudouin.schombe at ticafrica.net tél:+243998983491 skype:b.schombe wite web:http://webmail.ticafrica.net blog:http://akimambo.unblog.fr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From dl at panamo.eu Sat Sep 1 10:12:55 2012 From: dl at panamo.eu (Dominique Lacroix) Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2012 16:12:55 +0200 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: References: <50332E85.8060106@itforchange.net> <50333A5C.7060908@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD21F9B4D@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <5038BD70.7080909@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD22082FD@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <503F0CA3.3020801@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220B5DE@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <5041EDEA.2050903@panamo.eu> Message-ID: <504217E7.3030204@panamo.eu> Le 01/09/12 15:50, Chaitanya Dhareshwar a écrit : > Indeed ICANN *IS* doing a splendid job in terms of a clean simple > non-bureaucratic process for the public. Yes, of course, dear Chaitanya. But, as in every activity, the world needs to know what sort of organization it is. A US private one, submitted to commercial laws? An international quasi-public organization, immune vis-a-vis commercial laws? An American agency, working for the American nation interests through the world? Your analyse on this point could help. Cheers, @+, Dominique -- Dominique Lacroix Société européenne de l'Internet http://www.ies-france.eu +33 (0)6 63 24 39 14 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From cafec3m at yahoo.fr Sat Sep 1 10:42:12 2012 From: cafec3m at yahoo.fr (CAFEC) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2012 15:42:12 +0100 (BST) Subject: [governance] visas for azerbaijan on arrival In-Reply-To: References: <5028E26F.6020805@cafonso.ca> Message-ID: <1346510532.41109.YahooMailNeo@web28702.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> I will do so. But I think I can have visa on arrival. thanks Ginger     COORDINATION NATIONALE CAFEC COORDINATION NATIONALE REPRONTIC courriel:cafec3m at yahoo.fr/repronticrdc3m at yahoo.fr/sam2006 at francophone.net téléphone: 00243 998983491 ________________________________ De : Ginger Paque À : Baudouin Schombe Cc : governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Adam Peake Envoyé le : Samedi 1 septembre 2012 14h31 Objet : Re: [governance] visas for azerbaijan on arrival Hi Baudouin, I re-sent my original email, and got a response saying that my email had been received and was in processing or accepted. I am now waiting for another response. Good luck. Ginger Ginger (Virginia) Paque VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu Diplo Foundation Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme www.diplomacy.edu/ig On 1 September 2012 05:25, Baudouin Schombe wrote: Hello, > >I'm in the same situation and I do not understand what is happening. No response so far. > >Baudouin > > >2012/8/27 Ginger Paque > >Has anyone received the described letter for the visa on arrival, after emailing visainquiries at igf2012.az ? >>I emailed August 13, but have had no response. >>Does anyone have more information? I don't want to re-send if it is just a matter of giving them time... >> >>I refer to: >> >>b) Host Country’s Invitation letter which can be obtained by the participant if they send an email request with their ‘confirmation of registration’-form and the scanned passport copy to the host country's IGF visa support desk at visainquiries at igf2012.az >> >>Thanks, >>Ginger >>Ginger (Virginia) Paque >> >> >> >> >>Foreigners or stateless persons coming to the Republic of Azerbaijan for Internet Governance Forum-2012, which will be held in Baku, can receive visas from the structural sections of the Consular Department of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Azerbaijan, which are located in the Baku Heydar Aliyev International Airport or from the Consular Depatments of the Republic of Azerbaijan located in foreign countries. >>The upon arrival visa application period starts from 15 October to 8 November, 2012. >>There are two supporting documents which will serve as the basis for granting the visa: >>a) ‘Confirmation of registration’-form which will be provided by the IGF Secretariat at http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/ >>and >>b) Host Country’s Invitation letter which can be obtained by the participant if they send an email request with their ‘confirmation of registration’-form and the scanned passport copy to the host country's IGF visa support desk at visainquiries at igf2012.az >> >>VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu >>Diplo Foundation >>Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme >>www.diplomacy.edu/ig >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>On 14 August 2012 04:56, Adam Peake wrote: >> >>Baudouin, Hi. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 10:46 PM, Baudouin Schombe >>> wrote: >>>> Hello, >>>> For countries that have no diplomatic representation, is it possible to have >>>> the visa on arrival? >>>> >>> >>>Yes, exactly.  If your country does not have and Azerbaijan >>>embassy/consular office you can get a visa on arrival. >>> >>>See the link Carlos provided >>> for more >>>information about the forms you need. >>> >>>Adam >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> I think these are provisions that must be considered! >>>> >>>> Baudouin >>>> >>>> 2012/8/13 Mawaki Chango >>>>> >>>>> [Sigh of relief] Thanks! >>>>> >>>>> m. >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 8:29 AM, Adam Peake wrote: >>>>> > On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Carlos A. Afonso wrote: >>>>> >> Hi people, >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Maybe most of you have already seen this info. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I've just got confirmation email of my registration for Baku IGF >>>>> >> reminding me of the info regarding visas in the IGF 2012 website. I >>>>> >> think the issues regarding visas are settled now (see below). There is >>>>> >> no info on costs though. >>>>> >> >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > My understanding is that the visa will be free.  However, checking >>>>> > this and will get back with confirmation. >>>>> > >>>>> > Adam >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> >> frt rgds >>>>> >> >>>>> >> --c.a. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> http://igf2012.com/?mod=content&sub=bottom&id=116&lang=en >>>>> >> >>>>> >> General information >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Foreigners or stateless persons coming to the Republic of Azerbaijan >>>>> >> for >>>>> >> Internet Governance Forum-2012, which will be held in Baku, can receive >>>>> >> visas from the structural sections of the Consular Department of the >>>>> >> Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Azerbaijan, which are >>>>> >> located in the Baku Heydar Aliyev International Airport or from the >>>>> >> Consular Depatments of the Republic of Azerbaijan located in foreign >>>>> >> countries. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> The upon arrival visa application period starts from 15 October to 8 >>>>> >> November, 2012. There are two supporting documents which will serve as >>>>> >> the basis for granting the visa: >>>>> >> >>>>> >> a) ‘Confirmation of registration’-form which will be provided by the >>>>> >> IGF >>>>> >> Secretariat at http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/ >>>>> >> and >>>>> >> b) Host Country’s Invitation letter which can be obtained by the >>>>> >> participant if they send an email request with their ‘confirmation of >>>>> >> registration’-form and the scanned passport copy to the host country's >>>>> >> IGF visa support desk at visainquiries at igf2012.az >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> ____________________________________________________________ >>>>> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>>>> >>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org >>>>> >> To be removed from the list, visit: >>>>> >>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >>>>> >> >>>>> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >>>>> >>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >>>>> >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>>>> >>      http://www.igcaucus.org/ >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >>>>> >> >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > ____________________________________________________________ >>>>> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>>>> >      governance at lists.igcaucus.org >>>>> > To be removed from the list, visit: >>>>> >      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >>>>> > >>>>> > For all other list information and functions, see: >>>>> >      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >>>>> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>>>> >      http://www.igcaucus.org/ >>>>> > >>>>> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>>>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org >>>>> To be removed from the list, visit: >>>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >>>>> >>>>> For all other list information and functions, see: >>>>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >>>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/ >>>>> >>>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN >>>> CENTRE AFRICAIN D'ECHANGE CULTUREL/ >>>> ACADEMIE DES TIC >>>> FACILITATEUR GAID/AFRIQUE Membre >>>> At-Large Member >>>> NCSG Member >>>> >>>> email:baudouin.schombe at gmail.com >>>>          baudouin.schombe at ticafrica.net >>>> tél:+243998983491 >>>> skype:b.schombe >>>> wite web:http://webmail.ticafrica.net >>>> blog:http://akimambo.unblog.fr >>>> >>>> >>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org >>>> To be removed from the list, visit: >>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >>>> >>>> For all other list information and functions, see: >>>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/ >>>> >>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >>>> >>> >>> >>>____________________________________________________________ >>>You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org >>>To be removed from the list, visit: >>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >>> >>>For all other list information and functions, see: >>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >>>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/ >>> >>>Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >>> >>> >> >>____________________________________________________________ >>You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org >>To be removed from the list, visit: >>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >>For all other list information and functions, see: >>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>     http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >>Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > >-- >SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN >CENTRE AFRICAIN D'ECHANGE CULTUREL/ >ACADEMIE DES TIC >FACILITATEUR GAID/AFRIQUE Membre >At-Large Member >NCSG Member > >email:baudouin.schombe at gmail.com >         baudouin.schombe at ticafrica.net >tél:+243998983491 >skype:b.schombe >wite web:http://webmail.ticafrica.net >blog:http://akimambo.unblog.fr > > ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list:     governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit:     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see:     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:     http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Sat Sep 1 10:57:07 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2012 20:27:07 +0530 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: <504217E7.3030204@panamo.eu> References: <50332E85.8060106@itforchange.net> <50333A5C.7060908@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD21F9B4D@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <5038BD70.7080909@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD22082FD@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <503F0CA3.3020801@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220B5DE@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <5041EDEA.2050903@panamo.eu> <504217E7.3030204@panamo.eu> Message-ID: These points seem to be something ICANN needs to declare - there's little we can guess about it's status unless they make a solid stand on these points. Again my knowledge of how this would affect us at large is limited so no comments there. I keep thinking about companies like toyota, hyundai, philips, etc - all multinational companies and each handling their own work with pride and happy to admit they're a professional commercial entity. They all diversify across continents while keeping their HQ in one place - maybe US, maybe Japan, whatever. The primary thing I'm seeing here is - these companies are based on archaic laws and rules (ok, some new ones) - but still manage to handle a multi national operation. And they're dealing with tangible goods - but they DO get the goods to the consumer irrespective of the laws of their HQ country? I mean if they can do it, without trying to be above and beyond the law, there must be some way this can apply to ICANN too. My thinking is - yes, ICANN has to pick out what and how they want to be, and stick with that image, and live with the consequences of it. We (technically 'outsiders', like me) cannot pick this for them. -C On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 7:42 PM, Dominique Lacroix
wrote: > Le 01/09/12 15:50, Chaitanya Dhareshwar a écrit : > > Indeed ICANN *IS* doing a splendid job in terms of a clean simple > non-bureaucratic process for the public. > > Yes, of course, dear Chaitanya. > But, as in every activity, the world needs to know what sort of > organization it is. > A US private one, submitted to commercial laws? > An international quasi-public organization, immune vis-a-vis commercial > laws? > An American agency, working for the American nation interests through the > world? > > Your analyse on this point could help. > > Cheers, @+, Dominique > > -- > Dominique Lacroix > Société européenne de l'Internethttp://www.ies-france.eu > +33 (0)6 63 24 39 14 > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Sat Sep 1 11:04:49 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2012 20:34:49 +0530 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: References: <50332E85.8060106@itforchange.net> <50333A5C.7060908@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD21F9B4D@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <5038BD70.7080909@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD22082FD@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <503F0CA3.3020801@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220B5DE@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <5041EDEA.2050903@panamo.eu> <504217E7.3030204@panamo.eu> Message-ID: Btw, if I've written something here that seems stupid, please feel free to point out. Always a good learning, for me in this case. -C On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 8:27 PM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar wrote: > These points seem to be something ICANN needs to declare - there's little > we can guess about it's status unless they make a solid stand on these > points. Again my knowledge of how this would affect us at large is limited > so no comments there. > > I keep thinking about companies like toyota, hyundai, philips, etc - all > multinational companies and each handling their own work with pride and > happy to admit they're a professional commercial entity. They all diversify > across continents while keeping their HQ in one place - maybe US, maybe > Japan, whatever. > > The primary thing I'm seeing here is - these companies are based on > archaic laws and rules (ok, some new ones) - but still manage to handle a > multi national operation. And they're dealing with tangible goods - but > they DO get the goods to the consumer irrespective of the laws of their HQ > country? > > I mean if they can do it, without trying to be above and beyond the law, > there must be some way this can apply to ICANN too. > > My thinking is - yes, ICANN has to pick out what and how they want to be, > and stick with that image, and live with the consequences of it. We > (technically 'outsiders', like me) cannot pick this for them. > > > -C > > On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 7:42 PM, Dominique Lacroix
wrote: > >> Le 01/09/12 15:50, Chaitanya Dhareshwar a écrit : >> >> Indeed ICANN *IS* doing a splendid job in terms of a clean simple >> non-bureaucratic process for the public. >> >> Yes, of course, dear Chaitanya. >> But, as in every activity, the world needs to know what sort of >> organization it is. >> A US private one, submitted to commercial laws? >> An international quasi-public organization, immune vis-a-vis commercial >> laws? >> An American agency, working for the American nation interests through the >> world? >> >> Your analyse on this point could help. >> >> Cheers, @+, Dominique >> >> -- >> Dominique Lacroix >> Société européenne de l'Internethttp://www.ies-france.eu >> +33 (0)6 63 24 39 14 >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From gpaque at gmail.com Sat Sep 1 11:12:52 2012 From: gpaque at gmail.com (Ginger Paque) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2012 10:12:52 -0500 Subject: [governance] visas for azerbaijan on arrival In-Reply-To: <1346510532.41109.YahooMailNeo@web28702.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> References: <5028E26F.6020805@cafonso.ca> <1346510532.41109.YahooMailNeo@web28702.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Getting the visa on arrival seems to be much easier if you get the email/letter from Azerbaijan, print it out, take it with you, along with your registration for the IGF. Good luck Ginger Ginger (Virginia) Paque VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu Diplo Foundation Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme www.diplomacy.edu/ig ** ** On 1 September 2012 09:42, CAFEC wrote: > I will do so. But I think I can have visa on arrival. > > thanks Ginger > > * > COORDINATION NATIONALE CAFEC > COORDINATION NATIONALE REPRONTIC* > courriel:cafec3m at yahoo.fr/repronticrdc3m at yahoo.fr/sam2006 at francophone.net > téléphone: 00243 998983491 > ------------------------------ > *De :* Ginger Paque > *À :* Baudouin Schombe > *Cc :* governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Adam Peake > *Envoyé le :* Samedi 1 septembre 2012 14h31 > *Objet :* Re: [governance] visas for azerbaijan on arrival > > Hi Baudouin, > I re-sent my original email, and got a response saying that my email had > been received and was in processing or accepted. I am now waiting for > another response. > > Good luck. > Ginger > > Ginger (Virginia) Paque > > VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu > Diplo Foundation > Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme > www.diplomacy.edu/ig > ** > ** > > > > On 1 September 2012 05:25, Baudouin Schombe wrote: > > Hello, > > I'm in the same situation and I do not understand what is happening. No > response so far. > > Baudouin > > 2012/8/27 Ginger Paque > > Has anyone received the described letter for the visa on arrival, after > emailing visainquiries at igf2012.az ? > I emailed August 13, but have had no response. > Does anyone have more information? I don't want to re-send if it is just a > matter of giving them time... > > I refer to: > > b) Host Country’s Invitation letter which can be obtained by the > participant if they send an email request with their ‘confirmation of > registration’-form and the scanned passport copy to the host country's IGF > visa support desk at visainquiries at igf2012.az > > Thanks, > Ginger > Ginger (Virginia) Paque > > > > Foreigners or stateless persons coming to the Republic of Azerbaijan for > Internet Governance Forum-2012, which will be held in Baku, can receive > visas from the structural sections of the Consular Department of the > Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Azerbaijan, which are > located in the Baku Heydar Aliyev International Airport or from the > Consular Depatments of the Republic of Azerbaijan located in foreign > countries. > *The upon arrival visa application period starts from 15 October to 8 > November, 2012. > There are two supporting documents which will serve as the basis for > granting the visa:* > a) ‘Confirmation of registration’-form which will be provided by the IGF > Secretariat at http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/ > and > b) Host Country’s Invitation letter which can be obtained by the > participant if they send an email request with their ‘confirmation of > registration’-form and the scanned passport copy to the host country's IGF > visa support desk at visainquiries at igf2012.az > > VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu > Diplo Foundation > Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme > www.diplomacy.edu/ig > ** > ** > > > > On 14 August 2012 04:56, Adam Peake wrote: > > Baudouin, Hi. > > > > > On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 10:46 PM, Baudouin Schombe > wrote: > > Hello, > > For countries that have no diplomatic representation, is it possible to > have > > the visa on arrival? > > > > Yes, exactly. If your country does not have and Azerbaijan > embassy/consular office you can get a visa on arrival. > > See the link Carlos provided > for more > information about the forms you need. > > Adam > > > > > > > I think these are provisions that must be considered! > > > > Baudouin > > > > 2012/8/13 Mawaki Chango > >> > >> [Sigh of relief] Thanks! > >> > >> m. > >> > >> On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 8:29 AM, Adam Peake wrote: > >> > On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Carlos A. Afonso > wrote: > >> >> Hi people, > >> >> > >> >> Maybe most of you have already seen this info. > >> >> > >> >> I've just got confirmation email of my registration for Baku IGF > >> >> reminding me of the info regarding visas in the IGF 2012 website. I > >> >> think the issues regarding visas are settled now (see below). There > is > >> >> no info on costs though. > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > My understanding is that the visa will be free. However, checking > >> > this and will get back with confirmation. > >> > > >> > Adam > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >> frt rgds > >> >> > >> >> --c.a. > >> >> > >> >> http://igf2012.com/?mod=content&sub=bottom&id=116&lang=en > >> >> > >> >> General information > >> >> > >> >> Foreigners or stateless persons coming to the Republic of Azerbaijan > >> >> for > >> >> Internet Governance Forum-2012, which will be held in Baku, can > receive > >> >> visas from the structural sections of the Consular Department of the > >> >> Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Azerbaijan, which are > >> >> located in the Baku Heydar Aliyev International Airport or from the > >> >> Consular Depatments of the Republic of Azerbaijan located in foreign > >> >> countries. > >> >> > >> >> The upon arrival visa application period starts from 15 October to 8 > >> >> November, 2012. There are two supporting documents which will serve > as > >> >> the basis for granting the visa: > >> >> > >> >> a) ‘Confirmation of registration’-form which will be provided by the > >> >> IGF > >> >> Secretariat at http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/ > >> >> and > >> >> b) Host Country’s Invitation letter which can be obtained by the > >> >> participant if they send an email request with their ‘confirmation of > >> >> registration’-form and the scanned passport copy to the host > country's > >> >> IGF visa support desk at visainquiries at igf2012.az > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> ____________________________________________________________ > >> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > >> >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org > >> >> To be removed from the list, visit: > >> >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > >> >> > >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: > >> >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > >> >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > >> >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ > >> >> > >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > ____________________________________________________________ > >> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > >> > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > >> > To be removed from the list, visit: > >> > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > >> > > >> > For all other list information and functions, see: > >> > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > >> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > >> > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > >> > > >> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > >> > > >> > >> > >> ____________________________________________________________ > >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org > >> To be removed from the list, visit: > >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > >> > >> For all other list information and functions, see: > >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ > >> > >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN > > CENTRE AFRICAIN D'ECHANGE CULTUREL/ > > ACADEMIE DES TIC > > FACILITATEUR GAID/AFRIQUE Membre > > At-Large Member > > NCSG Member > > > > email:baudouin.schombe at gmail.com > > baudouin.schombe at ticafrica.net > > tél:+243998983491 > > skype:b.schombe > > wite web:http://webmail.ticafrica.net > > blog:http://akimambo.unblog.fr > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > > To be removed from the list, visit: > > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > > > For all other list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > > > -- > SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN > CENTRE AFRICAIN D'ECHANGE CULTUREL/ > ACADEMIE DES TIC > FACILITATEUR GAID/AFRIQUE Membre > At-Large Member > NCSG Member > > email:baudouin.schombe at gmail.com > baudouin.schombe at ticafrica.net > tél:+243998983491 > skype:b.schombe > wite web:http://webmail.ticafrica.net > blog:http://akimambo.unblog.fr > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From cafec3m at yahoo.fr Sat Sep 1 11:29:23 2012 From: cafec3m at yahoo.fr (CAFEC) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2012 16:29:23 +0100 (BST) Subject: [governance] visas for azerbaijan on arrival In-Reply-To: References: <5028E26F.6020805@cafonso.ca> <1346510532.41109.YahooMailNeo@web28702.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1346513363.14017.YahooMailNeo@web28705.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> I raised the query with the registration confirmation for the IGF 2012 in Baku.     COORDINATION NATIONALE CAFEC COORDINATION NATIONALE REPRONTIC courriel:cafec3m at yahoo.fr/repronticrdc3m at yahoo.fr téléphone: 00243 998983491 ________________________________ De : Ginger Paque À : CAFEC Cc : "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" ; Baudouin Schombe ; Adam Peake Envoyé le : Samedi 1 septembre 2012 16h12 Objet : Re: [governance] visas for azerbaijan on arrival Getting the visa on arrival seems to be much easier if you get the email/letter from Azerbaijan, print it out, take it with you, along with your registration for the IGF. Good luck Ginger Ginger (Virginia) Paque VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu Diplo Foundation Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme www.diplomacy.edu/ig On 1 September 2012 09:42, CAFEC wrote: I will do so. But I think I can have visa on arrival. > > > >thanks Ginger >  >  >COORDINATION NATIONALE CAFEC >COORDINATION NATIONALE REPRONTIC >courriel:cafec3m at yahoo.fr/repronticrdc3m at yahoo.fr/sam2006 at francophone.net >téléphone: 00243 998983491 > > >________________________________ > De : Ginger Paque >À : Baudouin Schombe >Cc : governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Adam Peake >Envoyé le : Samedi 1 septembre 2012 14h31 >Objet : Re: [governance] visas for azerbaijan on arrival > > >Hi Baudouin, >I re-sent my original email, and got a response saying that my email had been received and was in processing or accepted. I am now waiting for another response. > >Good luck. >Ginger > >Ginger (Virginia) Paque > > >VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu >Diplo Foundation >Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme >www.diplomacy.edu/ig > > > > > > >On 1 September 2012 05:25, Baudouin Schombe wrote: > >Hello, >> >>I'm in the same situation and I do not understand what is happening. No response so far. >> >>Baudouin >> >> >>2012/8/27 Ginger Paque >> >>Has anyone received the described letter for the visa on arrival, after emailing visainquiries at igf2012.az ? >>>I emailed August 13, but have had no response. >>>Does anyone have more information? I don't want to re-send if it is just a matter of giving them time... >>> >>>I refer to: >>> >>>b) Host Country’s Invitation letter which can be obtained by the participant if they send an email request with their ‘confirmation of registration’-form and the scanned passport copy to the host country's IGF visa support desk at visainquiries at igf2012.az >>> >>>Thanks, >>>Ginger >>>Ginger (Virginia) Paque >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Foreigners or stateless persons coming to the Republic of Azerbaijan for Internet Governance Forum-2012, which will be held in Baku, can receive visas from the structural sections of the Consular Department of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Azerbaijan, which are located in the Baku Heydar Aliyev International Airport or from the Consular Depatments of the Republic of Azerbaijan located in foreign countries. >>>The upon arrival visa application period starts from 15 October to 8 November, 2012. >>>There are two supporting documents which will serve as the basis for granting the visa: >>>a) ‘Confirmation of registration’-form which will be provided by the IGF Secretariat at http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/ >>>and >>>b) Host Country’s Invitation letter which can be obtained by the participant if they send an email request with their ‘confirmation of registration’-form and the scanned passport copy to the host country's IGF visa support desk at visainquiries at igf2012.az >>> >>>VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu >>>Diplo Foundation >>>Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme >>>www.diplomacy.edu/ig >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>On 14 August 2012 04:56, Adam Peake wrote: >>> >>>Baudouin, Hi. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 10:46 PM, Baudouin Schombe >>>> wrote: >>>>> Hello, >>>>> For countries that have no diplomatic representation, is it possible to have >>>>> the visa on arrival? >>>>> >>>> >>>>Yes, exactly.  If your country does not have and Azerbaijan >>>>embassy/consular office you can get a visa on arrival. >>>> >>>>See the link Carlos provided >>>> for more >>>>information about the forms you need. >>>> >>>>Adam >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> I think these are provisions that must be considered! >>>>> >>>>> Baudouin >>>>> >>>>> 2012/8/13 Mawaki Chango >>>>>> >>>>>> [Sigh of relief] Thanks! >>>>>> >>>>>> m. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 8:29 AM, Adam Peake wrote: >>>>>> > On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Carlos A. Afonso wrote: >>>>>> >> Hi people, >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Maybe most of you have already seen this info. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> I've just got confirmation email of my registration for Baku IGF >>>>>> >> reminding me of the info regarding visas in the IGF 2012 website. I >>>>>> >> think the issues regarding visas are settled now (see below). There is >>>>>> >> no info on costs though. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > My understanding is that the visa will be free.  However, checking >>>>>> > this and will get back with confirmation. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Adam >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> >> frt rgds >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> --c.a. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> http://igf2012.com/?mod=content&sub=bottom&id=116&lang=en >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> General information >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Foreigners or stateless persons coming to the Republic of Azerbaijan >>>>>> >> for >>>>>> >> Internet Governance Forum-2012, which will be held in Baku, can receive >>>>>> >> visas from the structural sections of the Consular Department of the >>>>>> >> Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Azerbaijan, which are >>>>>> >> located in the Baku Heydar Aliyev International Airport or from the >>>>>> >> Consular Depatments of the Republic of Azerbaijan located in foreign >>>>>> >> countries. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> The upon arrival visa application period starts from 15 October to 8 >>>>>> >> November, 2012. There are two supporting documents which will serve as >>>>>> >> the basis for granting the visa: >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> a) ‘Confirmation of registration’-form which will be provided by the >>>>>> >> IGF >>>>>> >> Secretariat at http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/ >>>>>> >> and >>>>>> >> b) Host Country’s Invitation letter which can be obtained by the >>>>>> >> participant if they send an email request with their ‘confirmation of >>>>>> >> registration’-form and the scanned passport copy to the host country's >>>>>> >> IGF visa support desk at visainquiries at igf2012.az >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> ____________________________________________________________ >>>>>> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>>>>> >>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org >>>>>> >> To be removed from the list, visit: >>>>>> >>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >>>>>> >>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >>>>>> >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>>>>> >>      http://www.igcaucus.org/ >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >>>>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > ____________________________________________________________ >>>>>> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>>>>> >      governance at lists.igcaucus.org >>>>>> > To be removed from the list, visit: >>>>>> >      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >>>>>> > >>>>>> > For all other list information and functions, see: >>>>>> >      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >>>>>> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>>>>> >      http://www.igcaucus.org/ >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>>>>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org >>>>>> To be removed from the list, visit: >>>>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >>>>>> >>>>>> For all other list information and functions, see: >>>>>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >>>>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>>>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/ >>>>>> >>>>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN >>>>> CENTRE AFRICAIN D'ECHANGE CULTUREL/ >>>>> ACADEMIE DES TIC >>>>> FACILITATEUR GAID/AFRIQUE Membre >>>>> At-Large Member >>>>> NCSG Member >>>>> >>>>> email:baudouin.schombe at gmail.com >>>>>          baudouin.schombe at ticafrica.net >>>>> tél:+243998983491 >>>>> skype:b.schombe >>>>> wite web:http://webmail.ticafrica.net >>>>> blog:http://akimambo.unblog.fr >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>>>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org >>>>> To be removed from the list, visit: >>>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >>>>> >>>>> For all other list information and functions, see: >>>>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >>>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/ >>>>> >>>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>____________________________________________________________ >>>>You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org >>>>To be removed from the list, visit: >>>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >>>> >>>>For all other list information and functions, see: >>>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >>>>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/ >>>> >>>>Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >>>> >>>> >>> >>>____________________________________________________________ >>>You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org >>>To be removed from the list, visit: >>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >>> >>>For all other list information and functions, see: >>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >>>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/ >>> >>>Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >>> >>> >> >> >>-- >>SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN >>CENTRE AFRICAIN D'ECHANGE CULTUREL/ >>ACADEMIE DES TIC >>FACILITATEUR GAID/AFRIQUE Membre >>At-Large Member >>NCSG Member >> >>email:baudouin.schombe at gmail.com >>         baudouin.schombe at ticafrica.net >>tél:+243998983491 >>skype:b.schombe >>wite web:http://webmail.ticafrica.net >>blog:http://akimambo.unblog.fr >> >> > >____________________________________________________________ >You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >    governance at lists.igcaucus.org >To be removed from the list, visit: >    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > >For all other list information and functions, see: >    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >    http://www.igcaucus.org/ > >Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list:     governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit:     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see:     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:     http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ms.narine.khachatryan at gmail.com Sat Sep 1 12:56:11 2012 From: ms.narine.khachatryan at gmail.com (Narine Khachatryan) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2012 20:56:11 +0400 Subject: [governance] Azerbaijan persuaded Hungary to release a convicted murderer Message-ID: *Azerbaijan persuaded Hungary to release a convicted murderer * The Azeri serviceman, Ramil Safarov, was *given a life sentence *without parole in 2006 by the Budapest City *Court* for axing to death an unarmed Armenian Gurgen Markarian during a NATO-sponsored training program in 2004 in Budapest. The murder was done with a particular brutality: *Safarov *had struck Markaryan *16* times with an *axe*, decapitating him while the latter was sleeping in his dormitory room. On Friday (August 31, 2012), Safarov was flown to his home countryAzerbaijan from Hungary and upon arrival pardoned by president Aliev. The White House immediately criticized the decision to free convicted murderer, and some US newspapers touched upon an Azerbaijan and Hungary’s deal to purchase by Azerbaijan of 3 billion euros in Hungarian bonds. The Hungarian opposition started demanding the resignation of the Vice-Prime Minister of Hungary, minister of Justice Tibor Navracsics over the freed prisoner, while Armenia cut off diplomatic ties with Hungary. The question remains, is semi-feudal and oil-rich Azerbaijan so powerful to buy justice and engage a European country in its dishonest deals? http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2012/08/197250.htm http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/08/31/statement-nsc-spokesman-tommy-vietor-azerbaijan-s-decision-pardon-ramil-?utm_source=wh.gov&utm_medium=shorturl&utm_campaign=shorturl http://www.armenianweekly.com/2012/08/31/obama-deeply-concerned-about-safarov-pardon/ http://iwpr.net/report-news/murder-case-judgement-reverberates-around-caucasus http://budapest.sumgait.info/safarov-interrogation.htm Narine Khachatryan Media Education Center Yerevan, Armenia www.mediaeducation.am www.safe.am www.immasin.am -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From pouzin at well.com Sat Sep 1 13:40:14 2012 From: pouzin at well.com (Louis Pouzin (well)) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2012 19:40:14 +0200 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest Message-ID: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/news/internet/Domain-names-spark-dispute-among-religious-groups/articleshow/16130800.cms Today, more than 6600 complaints for 1931 gTLD applications https://gtldcomment.icann.org/comments-feedback/applicationcomment/viewcomments *Let's put up a $185K award for the last one !* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Sat Sep 1 14:00:06 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2012 23:30:06 +0530 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wasn't that expected? And what about health and charity and city and rugby and other absurdly broad TLDs like that. I guess they're pretty much obliged to tread the fine line, and get scratched on both sides. This won't be the end of it. -C On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 11:10 PM, Louis Pouzin (well) wrote: > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/news/internet/Domain-names-spark-dispute-among-religious-groups/articleshow/16130800.cms > > Today, more than 6600 complaints for 1931 gTLD applications > > > https://gtldcomment.icann.org/comments-feedback/applicationcomment/viewcomments > > *Let's put up a $185K award for the last one !* > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Sat Sep 1 14:37:31 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2012 06:37:31 +1200 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: *Juliet:* "What's in a name? That which we call a rose By any other name would smell as sweet." Romeo and Juliet (II, ii, 1-2) *Summary of Relevance * "Romeo Montague and Juliet Capulet meet and fall in love in Shakespeare's lyrical tale of "star-cross'd" lovers. They are doomed from the start as members of two warring families. Here Juliet tells Romeo that a name is an *artificial and meaningless convention*, and that she loves the person who is called "Montague", not the Montague name and not the Montague family. Romeo, out of his passion for Juliet, rejects his family name and vows, as Juliet asks, to "deny (his) father" and instead be "new baptized" as Juliet's lover. This one short line encapsulates the central struggle and tragedy of the play." Clearly there are people squabbling over generic names, yes the "g" in gTLD is "generic" which means "Characteristic of or relating to a class or group". It would be great for those who have issues or comments to make them where they matter in terms of impact which is https://gtldcomment.icann.org/comments-feedback/applicationcomment/login The new Application Comment Window has been extended to an additional 45 days which means it's open for comments till the 26th September, 2012. Sala On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 6:00 AM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar wrote: > Wasn't that expected? And what about health and charity and city and rugby > and other absurdly broad TLDs like that. > > I guess they're pretty much obliged to tread the fine line, and get > scratched on both sides. This won't be the end of it. > > -C > > On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 11:10 PM, Louis Pouzin (well) wrote: > >> >> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/news/internet/Domain-names-spark-dispute-among-religious-groups/articleshow/16130800.cms >> >> Today, more than 6600 complaints for 1931 gTLD applications >> >> >> https://gtldcomment.icann.org/comments-feedback/applicationcomment/viewcomments >> >> *Let's put up a $185K award for the last one !* >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From lmcknigh at syr.edu Sat Sep 1 15:01:29 2012 From: lmcknigh at syr.edu (Lee W McKnight) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2012 19:01:29 +0000 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B134698@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> Only 4 comments on average per application? Internet lawyers and consultants have a growth market here clearly. And sure igcers should file comments early and often. Lee ________________________________ From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] on behalf of Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro [salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2012 2:37 PM To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Chaitanya Dhareshwar Cc: Louis Pouzin (well) Subject: Re: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest Juliet: "What's in a name? That which we call a rose By any other name would smell as sweet." Romeo and Juliet (II, ii, 1-2) Summary of Relevance "Romeo Montague and Juliet Capulet meet and fall in love in Shakespeare's lyrical tale of "star-cross'd" lovers. They are doomed from the start as members of two warring families. Here Juliet tells Romeo that a name is an artificial and meaningless convention, and that she loves the person who is called "Montague", not the Montague name and not the Montague family. Romeo, out of his passion for Juliet, rejects his family name and vows, as Juliet asks, to "deny (his) father" and instead be "new baptized" as Juliet's lover. This one short line encapsulates the central struggle and tragedy of the play." Clearly there are people squabbling over generic names, yes the "g" in gTLD is "generic" which means "Characteristic of or relating to a class or group". It would be great for those who have issues or comments to make them where they matter in terms of impact which is https://gtldcomment.icann.org/comments-feedback/applicationcomment/login The new Application Comment Window has been extended to an additional 45 days which means it's open for comments till the 26th September, 2012. Sala On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 6:00 AM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar > wrote: Wasn't that expected? And what about health and charity and city and rugby and other absurdly broad TLDs like that. I guess they're pretty much obliged to tread the fine line, and get scratched on both sides. This won't be the end of it. -C On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 11:10 PM, Louis Pouzin (well) > wrote: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/news/internet/Domain-names-spark-dispute-among-religious-groups/articleshow/16130800.cms Today, more than 6600 complaints for 1931 gTLD applications https://gtldcomment.icann.org/comments-feedback/applicationcomment/viewcomments Let's put up a $185K award for the last one ! ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From karl at cavebear.com Sat Sep 1 16:07:51 2012 From: karl at cavebear.com (Karl Auerbach) Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2012 13:07:51 -0700 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50426B17.3080201@cavebear.com> When I was on the ICANN board of directors some well intended person called me up and said that he wanted to apply to ICANN for a top level domain, something like .christian. Of course he, like anyone else, should be free to use the internet, including the domain name system, in ways that are privately beneficial as long as they don't cause public harm. Detouring in the story a bit ... Several years back John Romkey and I proposed an April 1 RFC for a Zen MIB (Management Information Base). It would contain zero management variables. Jon Postel responded by telling us that we should contemplate the matter for another year. Back to .christian ... Having learned from Jon my response to this person was that he ought to consider the difficulties he would encounter on the road he was considering. Did he really want to be in the position of determining who is and who is not appropriate for .christian? I reminded him that many wars had been fought over things similar to that. In terms of ICANN's new TLD program ... ICANN is, to use what is perhaps an idiom, between a rock and a hard place. ICANN could block words - but an argument can be made that just about any word has troublesome aspects. ICANN would then have to make policies about the degree of troublesomeness and that would strike many of us as verging on censorship. (Indeed ICANN has already engaged in this kind of thing via its pro-trademark policies and that has already extensively shaped DNS as a world of haves and have-nots.) Or ICANN could turn a blind eye to the strings and simply administer add/delete requests to the root zone. But that would allow some people to "own" some words. And people would grumble about .christian or .islam or .church or .nike or ... Personally I prefer the latter course because it allows the interplay of forces, many yet invisible, rather than the creation of a catholic (small 'c', pun intended) overlord of names. Someone who acquires .islam or .jew will be acquiring trouble. We will see money enter the temple as people who buy these kinds of names offload these difficult assets. --karl-- -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From roland at internetpolicyagency.com Sun Sep 2 03:27:56 2012 From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2012 08:27:56 +0100 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> In message , at 19:40:14 on Sat, 1 Sep 2012, "Louis Pouzin (well)" writes >Today, more than 6600 complaints for 1931 gTLD applications Actually, an average of less than four complaints per application seems extraordinarily low to me. If you regard the comments as an online petition, then typically you'd expect it to require a few tens of thousands of people with a common view (about each complained-of application) to be persuasive, after all there's a worldwide audience for this process. What's different about the ICANN system is that a lone voice can make a complaint which will be heard. -- Roland Perry -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From dl at panamo.eu Sun Sep 2 06:37:44 2012 From: dl at panamo.eu (Dominique Lacroix) Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2012 12:37:44 +0200 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> Message-ID: <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> Le 02/09/12 09:27, Roland Perry a écrit : > What's different about the ICANN system is that a lone voice can make > a complaint which will be heard. > -- Aren't you joking, Roland, are you? @+, best, Dominique -- Dominique Lacroix Société européenne de l'Internet http://www.ies-france.eu +33 (0)6 63 24 39 14 -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Sun Sep 2 06:58:58 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2012 12:58:58 +0200 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> Message-ID: <50433BF2.5020000@gmail.com> The facts certainly do bear out such an interpretation. On the other hand, these facts may speak to the point that, there may be huge barriers to entry ranging from: 1. "Stakeholders" may not know they do not know (about how to influence the system - a huge comparative advantage to the US who has specialists linked to the praxis). 2. Cost and familiarity with processes, players and importantly prospects of success. 3. Perversity, jeopardy and futility of engagement - linked to prospects of success on initiating a "claim"/policy cahnge/intervention. 4. Lack of legitimacy renders every rejected proposal/complaint (yes this sounds extreme I know) dubious, notwithstanding the exceptions of complaints heard. 5. How decisions are made contextualised in its institutional context matters. Corn cannot expect justice from a court of chickens (African proverb) or in South Africa. Or analogously as some poet critics said about White art in South Africa, we see the bit, the stirrup, the lead and the saddle, but where is the horse (paraphrased...) Perhaps it is not just Parminder, although he seems singled out more than others, for posing conjecture/opinion (however well justified and reflecting kaleidescopic reality) as fact. Riaz On 2012/09/02 09:27 AM, Roland Perry wrote: > In message > , > at 19:40:14 on Sat, 1 Sep 2012, "Louis Pouzin (well)" > writes >> Today, more than 6600 complaints for 1931 gTLD applications > > Actually, an average of less than four complaints per application > seems extraordinarily low to me. > > If you regard the comments as an online petition, then typically you'd > expect it to require a few tens of thousands of people with a common > view (about each complained-of application) to be persuasive, after > all there's a worldwide audience for this process. > > What's different about the ICANN system is that a lone voice can make > a complaint which will be heard. -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Sun Sep 2 07:42:45 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2012 17:12:45 +0530 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <50433BF2.5020000@gmail.com> References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <50433BF2.5020000@gmail.com> Message-ID: I agree with you on this Riaz. In fact if I am to think from my point of view (a quite limited one) - I don't really see any of these TLDs making any sort of impact to me or people in similar positions/situations. For example the ".travel" extension recently was quite a big thing for us (travel industry) but I dont see any such thing happening with ".rugby" or ".health" or any of them. We already have a ".travel" that has our company name on it, so we wouldnt even dream of investing in something bigger (say ".banyan" given that's my current company's name) - it just doesnt make sense for us. So what reason would I (or any technology person in the same situation) have to participate? (just illustrating the mindset) -C On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 4:28 PM, Riaz K Tayob wrote: > The facts certainly do bear out such an interpretation. > > On the other hand, these facts may speak to the point that, there may be > huge barriers to entry ranging from: > > 1. "Stakeholders" may not know they do not know (about how to influence > the system - a huge comparative advantage to the US who has specialists > linked to the praxis). > 2. Cost and familiarity with processes, players and importantly prospects > of success. > 3. Perversity, jeopardy and futility of engagement - linked to prospects > of success on initiating a "claim"/policy cahnge/intervention. > 4. Lack of legitimacy renders every rejected proposal/complaint (yes this > sounds extreme I know) dubious, notwithstanding the exceptions of > complaints heard. > 5. How decisions are made contextualised in its institutional context > matters. Corn cannot expect justice from a court of chickens (African > proverb) or in South Africa. Or analogously as some poet critics said about > White art in South Africa, we see the bit, the stirrup, the lead and the > saddle, but where is the horse (paraphrased...) > > Perhaps it is not just Parminder, although he seems singled out more than > others, for posing conjecture/opinion (however well justified and > reflecting kaleidescopic reality) as fact. > > Riaz > > > On 2012/09/02 09:27 AM, Roland Perry wrote: > >> In message > mail.gmail.com>, >> at 19:40:14 on Sat, 1 Sep 2012, "Louis Pouzin (well)" >> writes >> >>> Today, more than 6600 complaints for 1931 gTLD applications >>> >> >> Actually, an average of less than four complaints per application seems >> extraordinarily low to me. >> >> If you regard the comments as an online petition, then typically you'd >> expect it to require a few tens of thousands of people with a common view >> (about each complained-of application) to be persuasive, after all there's >> a worldwide audience for this process. >> >> What's different about the ICANN system is that a lone voice can make a >> complaint which will be heard. >> > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ca at cafonso.ca Sun Sep 2 09:42:17 2012 From: ca at cafonso.ca (Carlos A. Afonso) Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2012 10:42:17 -0300 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B134698@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> References: , <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B134698@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: <50436239.5000809@cafonso.ca> Not comments, Lee. Complaints. --c.a. On 09/01/2012 04:01 PM, Lee W McKnight wrote: > Only 4 comments on average per application? > > Internet lawyers and consultants have a growth market here clearly. > > And sure igcers should file comments early and often. > > Lee > > > ________________________________ > From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] on behalf of Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro [salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2012 2:37 PM > To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Chaitanya Dhareshwar > Cc: Louis Pouzin (well) > Subject: Re: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest > > > Juliet: > "What's in a name? That which we call a rose > By any other name would smell as sweet." > > Romeo and Juliet (II, ii, 1-2) > > Summary of Relevance > > "Romeo Montague and Juliet Capulet meet and fall in love in Shakespeare's lyrical tale of "star-cross'd" lovers. They are doomed from the start as members of two warring families. Here Juliet tells Romeo that a name is an artificial and meaningless convention, and that she loves the person who is called "Montague", not the Montague name and not the Montague family. Romeo, out of his passion for Juliet, rejects his family name and vows, as Juliet asks, to "deny (his) father" and instead be "new baptized" as Juliet's lover. This one short line encapsulates the central struggle and tragedy of the play." > > > Clearly there are people squabbling over generic names, yes the "g" in gTLD is "generic" which means "Characteristic of or relating to a class or group". It would be great for those who have issues or comments to make them where they matter in terms of impact which is https://gtldcomment.icann.org/comments-feedback/applicationcomment/login > > The new Application Comment Window has been extended to an additional 45 days which means it's open for comments till the 26th September, 2012. > > Sala > > On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 6:00 AM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar > wrote: > Wasn't that expected? And what about health and charity and city and rugby and other absurdly broad TLDs like that. > > I guess they're pretty much obliged to tread the fine line, and get scratched on both sides. This won't be the end of it. > > -C > > On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 11:10 PM, Louis Pouzin (well) > wrote: > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/news/internet/Domain-names-spark-dispute-among-religious-groups/articleshow/16130800.cms > > Today, more than 6600 complaints for 1931 gTLD applications > > https://gtldcomment.icann.org/comments-feedback/applicationcomment/viewcomments > > > Let's put up a $185K award for the last one ! > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From drc at virtualized.org Sun Sep 2 10:19:53 2012 From: drc at virtualized.org (David Conrad) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2012 07:19:53 -0700 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <50436239.5000809@cafonso.ca> References: , <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B134698@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> <50436239.5000809@cafonso.ca> Message-ID: On Sep 2, 2012, at 6:42 AM, Carlos A. Afonso wrote: > Not comments, Lee. Complaints. There are also statements of support. It'll be interesting to see the distribution. Regards, -drc -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ca at cafonso.ca Sun Sep 2 10:35:13 2012 From: ca at cafonso.ca (Carlos A. Afonso) Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2012 11:35:13 -0300 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: References: , <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B134698@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> <50436239.5000809@cafonso.ca> Message-ID: <50436EA1.3060303@cafonso.ca> I imagine that there is at least one statement of support per domain: the one coming from the applicant :) --c.a. On 09/02/2012 11:19 AM, David Conrad wrote: > On Sep 2, 2012, at 6:42 AM, Carlos A. Afonso wrote: >> Not comments, Lee. Complaints. > > There are also statements of support. It'll be interesting to see the distribution. > > Regards, > -drc > > > > -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From apisan at unam.mx Sun Sep 2 10:39:14 2012 From: apisan at unam.mx (Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2012 14:39:14 +0000 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com>,<504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> Message-ID: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483D7F75@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> Dominique, Roland is right. Having served in the ICANN Board for eight years and in other committees and task forces for a bit longer, I can vouch for that. Several participants of this list can also testify that a single voice may derail a process and certainly contribute tons of sand and the occassional wrench in the gearbox. Alejandro Pisanty ! !! !!! !!!! NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475 Dr. Alejandro Pisanty UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ________________________________________ Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Dominique Lacroix [dl at panamo.eu] Enviado el: domingo, 02 de septiembre de 2012 05:37 Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org Asunto: Re: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest Le 02/09/12 09:27, Roland Perry a écrit : > What's different about the ICANN system is that a lone voice can make > a complaint which will be heard. > -- Aren't you joking, Roland, are you? @+, best, Dominique -- Dominique Lacroix Société européenne de l'Internet http://www.ies-france.eu +33 (0)6 63 24 39 14 -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ajp at glocom.ac.jp Sun Sep 2 10:48:55 2012 From: ajp at glocom.ac.jp (Adam Peake) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2012 23:48:55 +0900 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <50436EA1.3060303@cafonso.ca> References: , <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B134698@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> <50436239.5000809@cafonso.ca> <50436EA1.3060303@cafonso.ca> Message-ID: Expect someone will do some analysis of objections (.NXT and Domain Incite might have started, but as a pay-for service.) I've looked at some comments, mostly boiler-plate responses from corporations wanting further brand protection. Might be interesting to see comments on community and geographic applications. And the "books", "cloud", "blog", "kids" type. Adam >I imagine that there is at least one statement of support per domain: >the one coming from the applicant :) > >--c.a. > >On 09/02/2012 11:19 AM, David Conrad wrote: >> On Sep 2, 2012, at 6:42 AM, Carlos A. Afonso wrote: >>> Not comments, Lee. Complaints. >> >> There are also statements of support. It'll be interesting to see >>the distribution. >> >> Regards, >> -drc >> >> >> >> > > >____________________________________________________________ >You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org >To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > >For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > >Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From drc at virtualized.org Sun Sep 2 11:02:50 2012 From: drc at virtualized.org (David Conrad) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2012 08:02:50 -0700 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: References: , <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B134698@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> <50436239.5000809@cafonso.ca> <50436EA1.3060303@cafonso.ca> Message-ID: > I've looked at some > comments, mostly boiler-plate responses from corporations wanting > further brand protection. Picking pages at random, I noticed a number of statements of support for .art, .bible, and .church and against .patagonia, .sex, .adult, and .porn. It might be interesting to track the statements (either in support or against) of individual strings over time -- I suspect there will be some interesting patterns. Regards, -drc -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From lmcknigh at syr.edu Sun Sep 2 14:00:45 2012 From: lmcknigh at syr.edu (Lee W McKnight) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2012 18:00:45 +0000 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: References: , <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B134698@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> <50436239.5000809@cafonso.ca>, Message-ID: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B13480D@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> Since some of us may get in the game and - comment - let's be precise on the ICANN rules of the game. To quote: "Comments for evaluation panels - Comments may be submitted on any active New gTLD application. Comments directed to the evaluation panels and submitted between 13 June 2012 and 12 August 2012 26 September 2012 will be forwarded to the evaluation panels to review and consider as part of the application's evaluations. Comments submitted outside of this period will be available for public viewing in the View Comments section of this Forum. Comments on objection grounds - On this forum, you may also submit comments on any application on the basis of one of the four available objection grounds (string confusion, legal rights, limited public interest, community)" So Carlos, there are only - comments. Admittedly in 2 varieties: 'Comments for evaluation panels' and 'comments on objection grounds.' Some may think 'comments on objection grounds' should usually be referred to as complaints I admit. So there you go, file a 'comment on objection grounds.' ; ) Lee ________________________________________ From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] on behalf of David Conrad [drc at virtualized.org] Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 10:19 AM To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org Subject: Re: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest On Sep 2, 2012, at 6:42 AM, Carlos A. Afonso wrote: > Not comments, Lee. Complaints. There are also statements of support. It'll be interesting to see the distribution. Regards, -drc -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From jefsey at jefsey.com Sun Sep 2 07:46:48 2012 From: jefsey at jefsey.com (JFC Morfin) Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2012 13:46:48 +0200 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> Message-ID: At 09:27 02/09/2012, Roland Perry wrote: >What's different about the ICANN system is that a lone voice can >make a complaint which will be heard. I am afraid that what is different about the ICANN system is that no one in the world really cares (except those who gambled K$ 185+ in this make believe). This is only for the ICANN/NTIA "IN" class of the US legacy Internet DNS system. Time has come to discuss a CS class and a possible ITU class. jfc -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ca at cafonso.ca Sun Sep 2 14:30:41 2012 From: ca at cafonso.ca (Carlos A. Afonso) Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2012 15:30:41 -0300 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B13480D@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> References: , <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B134698@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> <50436239.5000809@cafonso.ca>, <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B13480D@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: <5043A5D1.1020004@cafonso.ca> I do not have any, since the "new gTLDs policy" has been approved and Icann has already loaded itself with all that money -- point of no return. Let them have it :) --c.a. On 09/02/2012 03:00 PM, Lee W McKnight wrote: > Since some of us may get in the game and - comment - let's be precise on the ICANN rules of the game. > > To quote: > > "Comments for evaluation panels - Comments may be submitted on any active New gTLD application. Comments directed to the evaluation panels and submitted between 13 June 2012 and 12 August 2012 26 September 2012 will be forwarded to the evaluation panels to review and consider as part of the application's evaluations. Comments submitted outside of this period will be available for public viewing in the View Comments section of this Forum. > > Comments on objection grounds - On this forum, you may also submit comments on any application on the basis of one of the four available objection grounds (string confusion, legal rights, limited public interest, community)" > > So Carlos, there are only - comments. > > Admittedly in 2 varieties: 'Comments for evaluation panels' and 'comments on objection grounds.' > > Some may think 'comments on objection grounds' should usually be referred to as complaints I admit. So there you go, file a 'comment on objection grounds.' ; ) > > Lee > ________________________________________ > From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] on behalf of David Conrad [drc at virtualized.org] > Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 10:19 AM > To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org > Subject: Re: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest > > On Sep 2, 2012, at 6:42 AM, Carlos A. Afonso wrote: >> Not comments, Lee. Complaints. > > There are also statements of support. It'll be interesting to see the distribution. > > Regards, > -drc > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Sun Sep 2 16:34:31 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2012 23:34:31 +0300 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It seems that these religious applications are gaining lots of attention from the media. I was interviewed by Reuters last week, and the reporter who interviewed me tried to understand the nature of the sensitivity of applying for TLDs such as .islam, .halal, and .shia. The Arab region (Libya, Iraq, Syria...) and the Islamic world (Pakistan, Kashmir, Afghanistan...) have enough issues to deal with, leave alone dealing with issues related to the online world. Fahd On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 8:40 PM, Louis Pouzin (well) wrote: > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/news/internet/Domain-names-spark-dispute-among-religious-groups/articleshow/16130800.cms > > Today, more than 6600 complaints for 1931 gTLD applications > > > https://gtldcomment.icann.org/comments-feedback/applicationcomment/viewcomments > > *Let's put up a $185K award for the last one !* > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Sun Sep 2 16:39:44 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2012 23:39:44 +0300 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Chaitanya, .rugby was approved by the IRB ( http://www.irb.com/newsmedia/mediazone/pressrelease/newsid=2061834.html) before the applicant applied for it. As for the city TLDs, and since they are geography/community based TLDs, they also received approvals from their respective cities. Fahd On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 9:00 PM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar wrote: > Wasn't that expected? And what about health and charity and city and rugby > and other absurdly broad TLDs like that. > > I guess they're pretty much obliged to tread the fine line, and get > scratched on both sides. This won't be the end of it. > > -C > > On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 11:10 PM, Louis Pouzin (well) wrote: > >> >> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/news/internet/Domain-names-spark-dispute-among-religious-groups/articleshow/16130800.cms >> >> Today, more than 6600 complaints for 1931 gTLD applications >> >> >> https://gtldcomment.icann.org/comments-feedback/applicationcomment/viewcomments >> >> *Let's put up a $185K award for the last one !* >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Sun Sep 2 16:41:39 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2012 23:41:39 +0300 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B134698@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> References: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B134698@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: I have already reviewed all applications and made 37 comments in total. A very interesting process though. Fahd On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 10:01 PM, Lee W McKnight wrote: > Only 4 comments on average per application? > > Internet lawyers and consultants have a growth market here clearly. > > And sure igcers should file comments early and often. > > Lee > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [ > governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] on behalf of Salanieta T. > Tamanikaiwaimaro [salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com] > *Sent:* Saturday, September 01, 2012 2:37 PM > *To:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Chaitanya Dhareshwar > *Cc:* Louis Pouzin (well) > *Subject:* Re: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest > > *Juliet:* > "What's in a name? That which we call a rose > By any other name would smell as sweet." > Romeo and Juliet (II, ii, 1-2) > > *Summary of Relevance > * > > "Romeo Montague and Juliet Capulet meet and fall in love in Shakespeare's > lyrical tale of "star-cross'd" lovers. They are doomed from the start as > members of two warring families. Here Juliet tells Romeo that a name is an > *artificial and meaningless convention*, and that she loves the person > who is called "Montague", not the Montague name and not the Montague > family. Romeo, out of his passion for Juliet, rejects his family name and > vows, as Juliet asks, to "deny (his) father" and instead be "new baptized" > as Juliet's lover. This one short line encapsulates the central struggle > and tragedy of the play." > > > Clearly there are people squabbling over generic names, yes the "g" in > gTLD is "generic" which means "Characteristic of or relating to a class > or group". It would be great for those who have issues or comments to make > them where they matter in terms of impact which is > https://gtldcomment.icann.org/comments-feedback/applicationcomment/login > > The new Application Comment Window has been extended to an additional 45 > days which means it's open for comments till the 26th September, 2012. > > Sala > > On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 6:00 AM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar < > chaitanyabd at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Wasn't that expected? And what about health and charity and city and >> rugby and other absurdly broad TLDs like that. >> >> I guess they're pretty much obliged to tread the fine line, and get >> scratched on both sides. This won't be the end of it. >> >> -C >> >> On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 11:10 PM, Louis Pouzin (well) wrote: >> >>> >>> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/news/internet/Domain-names-spark-dispute-among-religious-groups/articleshow/16130800.cms >>> >>> Today, more than 6600 complaints for 1931 gTLD applications >>> >>> >>> https://gtldcomment.icann.org/comments-feedback/applicationcomment/viewcomments >>> >>> >>> *Let's put up a $185K award for the last one !* >>> >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >>> To be removed from the list, visit: >>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >>> >>> For all other list information and functions, see: >>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >>> >>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >>> >>> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Sun Sep 2 16:47:22 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2012 23:47:22 +0300 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: References: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B134698@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> <50436239.5000809@cafonso.ca> Message-ID: > > There are also statements of support. It'll be interesting to see the > distribution. > True. One of the comments that attracted my attention was made my an Indian singer (or maybe claimed to be so) regarding .music. Fahd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Sun Sep 2 16:49:07 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2012 23:49:07 +0300 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> Message-ID: Dominique, On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Dominique Lacroix
wrote: > Le 02/09/12 09:27, Roland Perry a écrit : > > What's different about the ICANN system is that a lone voice can make a >> complaint which will be heard. >> -- >> > Aren't you joking, Roland, are you? > Maybe a good example would be the court case that was filed by an earlier ICANN board member to get access to documents that ICANN rejected to reveal to him. Fahd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Sun Sep 2 16:54:16 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2012 23:54:16 +0300 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <50433BF2.5020000@gmail.com> Message-ID: Chaitanya, In fact if I am to think from my point of view (a quite limited one) - I > don't really see any of these TLDs making any sort of impact to me or > people in similar positions/situations. > WIPO's latest report on trademarks shows that more than 5 million new trademarks were registered in 2011, and the same amount during 2010. Trademark protection is a target here. In addition, from the many applicants I have talked to, many have set a target of 100,000 domain names to be sold at the cost of USD 10; thus making 1 million USD per year. They find the amount to suffice to their needs. Fahd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Sun Sep 2 17:00:14 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 00:00:14 +0300 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: And here is the Reuters report. http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/31/internet-religion-names-idUSL6E8JV2VA20120831 Fahd On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 11:34 PM, Fahd A. Batayneh wrote: > It seems that these religious applications are gaining lots of attention > from the media. I was interviewed by Reuters last week, and the reporter > who interviewed me tried to understand the nature of the sensitivity of > applying for TLDs such as .islam, .halal, and .shia. > > The Arab region (Libya, Iraq, Syria...) and the Islamic world (Pakistan, > Kashmir, Afghanistan...) have enough issues to deal with, leave alone > dealing with issues related to the online world. > > Fahd > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Sun Sep 2 17:16:53 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 09:16:53 +1200 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <50433BF2.5020000@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 8:54 AM, Fahd A. Batayneh wrote: > Chaitanya, > > > In fact if I am to think from my point of view (a quite limited one) - I >> don't really see any of these TLDs making any sort of impact to me or >> people in similar positions/situations. >> > > WIPO's latest report on trademarks shows that more than 5 million new > trademarks were registered in 2011, and the same amount during 2010. > Trademark protection is a target here. > > In addition, from the many applicants I have talked to, many have set a > target of 100,000 domain names to be sold at the cost of USD 10; thus > making 1 million USD per year. They find the amount to suffice to their > needs. > > To see the WIPO 2011 Report, visit: http://www.wipo.int/export/sites/www/freepublications/en/intproperty/941/wipo_pub_941_2011.pdf The impact of trademarks as well as other things like patents have a significant impact on countries GDPs. > Fahd > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Sun Sep 2 23:04:07 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 06:04:07 +0300 Subject: [governance] Jurisdiction on the Internet In-Reply-To: <503FAFEE.7080901@gmx.net> References: <503FAFEE.7080901@gmx.net> Message-ID: An interesting article. I liked the part that said "*For copyright infringement cases, could ICANN establish a Uniform Copyright Dispute Resolution Procedure?*". The article goes on to say "*Under a UCDRP, a registrar would be compelled to require its registrants to comply with takedown orders or face the loss of the registration*". Fahd On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 9:24 PM, Norbert Klein wrote: > Problems With Defining Jurisdiction on the Internet > > - > > Aug 27, 2012, By *David Maher* > > > http://www.circleid.com/posts/20120827_problems_with_defining_jurisdiction_on_the_internet/ > > > Norbert Klein > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Sun Sep 2 23:06:51 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 06:06:51 +0300 Subject: [governance] Microsoft NZ exposes TechEd delegates' passwords #Leaked Passwords #Global Unique Identifiers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Way to go Microsoft and good-bye Privacy (at least to those who had their passwords out in the air). Fahd On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 12:17 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > :( > > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/08/30/microsoft_new_zealand_exposes_teched_passwords/ > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Mon Sep 3 00:20:59 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 09:50:59 +0530 Subject: [governance] Microsoft NZ exposes TechEd delegates' passwords #Leaked Passwords #Global Unique Identifiers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It could have been worse. I mean people could have actually trusted them with valuable data and lost that. Nothing like a healthy password leak every now and then - with all the internet bigwigs - linkedin, FB, etc -C On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 8:36 AM, Fahd A. Batayneh wrote: > Way to go Microsoft and good-bye Privacy (at least to those who had their > passwords out in the air). > > Fahd > > On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 12:17 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < > salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > >> :( >> >> >> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/08/30/microsoft_new_zealand_exposes_teched_passwords/ >> >> >> -- >> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala >> P.O. Box 17862 >> Suva >> Fiji >> >> Twitter: @SalanietaT >> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro >> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 >> >> >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From roland at internetpolicyagency.com Mon Sep 3 03:42:21 2012 From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 08:42:21 +0100 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <50433BF2.5020000@gmail.com> Message-ID: In message , at 17:12:45 on Sun, 2 Sep 2012, Chaitanya Dhareshwar writes >In fact if I am to think from my point of view (a quite limited one) - >I don't really see any of these TLDs making any sort of impact to me or >people in similar positions/situations. For example the ".travel" >extension recently was quite a big thing for us (travel industry) but I >dont see any such thing happening with ".rugby" or ".health" or any of >them. We already have a ".travel" that has our company name on it, so >we wouldnt even dream of investing in something bigger (say ".banyan" >given that's my current company's name) - it just doesnt make sense for us. >  >So what reason would I (or any technology person in the same >situation) have to participate? (just illustrating the mindset) The reason people should participate is because ICANN is an environment where they can. We hear so many complaints about environments where people say they can't (with various degrees of justification) that it seems to me that failing to contribute to the new gTLD process disqualifies you from ever complaining about the outcome. But you do have to know it's possible. Maybe most people on this list know, but I accept there are some outsiders who don't. It was instructive seeing a representative from the OECD turn up in Prague in June to complain bitterly that the "NGO protection" for 'Red Cross' and 'Olympics' hadn't been extended to other well known NGOs (including, but not limited to, the OECD). The reaction of many in the audience was "where have you been the last four years?" As for whether there's a need for new gTLDS, as we say in Europe this is "closing the stable door after the horse has bolted". But one of ICANN's mission statements is to increase choice and competition at the gTLD level, and it's often forgotten that the ones launched piecemeal over the last ten years were done as a pilot study, to see what worked and what didn't, what was popular and what wasn't. I think most people would agree that .cat is a success, as is .eu (which I prefer to regard as a 2-letter gTLD for Europe, rather than a ccTLD) so that bodes well for other "Regional and sub-regional" gTLDs. On the other hand, .museum and .aero have not gained much traction, and .pro and .name have not attracted the following they were expected to. Which might indicate that it's more difficult than people think to make registrants self-identify with a non-geographic community. Meanwhile, I don't see much harm in a very well known trademark such as .ibm being used for an organisation's email and web presence (most browsers will add a .com today, to make such a url resolve, so it's not really a new idea at all. Time will tell how many of these new gTLDs succeed when registered, and which will fall by the wayside during the evaluation phase (because of being too similar, too controversial etc). Now's the time to give the ones you have objections to, a nudge towards obscurity. -- Roland Perry -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From roland at internetpolicyagency.com Mon Sep 3 03:48:28 2012 From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 08:48:28 +0100 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <20120902181555.16F4E21AB6@inbound-queue-3.mail.thdo.gradwell.net> References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <20120902181555.16F4E21AB6@inbound-queue-3.mail.thdo.gradwell.net> Message-ID: In message <20120902181555.16F4E21AB6 at inbound-queue-3.mail.thdo.gradwell.net>, at 13:46:48 on Sun, 2 Sep 2012, JFC Morfin writes >I am afraid that what is different about the ICANN system is that no >one in the world really cares (except those who gambled K$ 185+ in this >make believe). This is only for the ICANN/NTIA "IN" class of the US >legacy Internet DNS system. If people don't care, what's the harm in them ignoring the whole thing and living with the results? Because if they don't care, I assume you mean whatever the results are, it won't significantly affect them. I don't care that Beach Volleyball is now an Olympic sport. I think it's a bit lightweight for such a competition, but if the officials and athletes are happy, what business of mine is it to spoil their party? I'll simply continue to not-watch it, like I don't watch most of the other sports. -- Roland Perry -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From shahzad at bytesforall.pk Mon Sep 3 03:47:03 2012 From: shahzad at bytesforall.pk (Shahzad Ahmad) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2012 12:47:03 +0500 Subject: [governance] New policy directive for Internet Filtering in Pakistan In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, More bad news coming out from PakistanŠ so seemingly much talked about Internet filtering system effectively gets an implementation through this policy directive. http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-13-17209-Govt-orders-blocking-of-all-- blasphemous-pornographic-material-on-net Best wishes Shahzad www.bytesforall.pk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Mon Sep 3 04:36:46 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2012 11:36:46 +0300 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <20120902181555.16F4E21AB6@inbound-queue-3.mail.thdo.gradwell.net> Message-ID: <50446C1E.7090402@gmail.com> Many NGOs etc participate in settings where they feel compromised (eg WTO, WHO, etc). The problem is not participation per se (although a strong case can also be made for this), but the relationship from reform to more equitable solutions on the radical spectrum. In other words, what is the middle path... exhortations that intimate that participation is the way to go develop this are correct. But from what we see in both tenor and substance, this does not seem to be intended as an equitable process (on process applying same standards/norms irrespective of who is saying it - equitable treatment). Unless there is some modicum of openness the quest can be seen as an occupation/colonisation of legitimacy. That said, there is always the paradox of participation... As indicated in other threads, what is the trajectory beyond status quoism? Minimal accomodationist (where even ICANN shows up "progressive" civil society) platforms are simply not it for some of us(/me)... (And about living with the results, one presumes that meaningful change is possible within these fora for issues that are determined by some in the South...such optimism is lauded, but we can as always, agree to disagree...) On 2012/09/03 10:48 AM, Roland Perry wrote: > In message > <20120902181555.16F4E21AB6 at inbound-queue-3.mail.thdo.gradwell.net>, at > 13:46:48 on Sun, 2 Sep 2012, JFC Morfin writes >> I am afraid that what is different about the ICANN system is that no >> one in the world really cares (except those who gambled K$ 185+ in >> this make believe). This is only for the ICANN/NTIA "IN" class of the >> US legacy Internet DNS system. > > If people don't care, what's the harm in them ignoring the whole thing > and living with the results? Because if they don't care, I assume you > mean whatever the results are, it won't significantly affect them. > > I don't care that Beach Volleyball is now an Olympic sport. I think > it's a bit lightweight for such a competition, but if the officials > and athletes are happy, what business of mine is it to spoil their > party? I'll simply continue to not-watch it, like I don't watch most > of the other sports. -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From sana at bolobhi.org Mon Sep 3 04:41:28 2012 From: sana at bolobhi.org (Sana Saleem) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 13:41:28 +0500 Subject: [governance] New policy directive for Internet Filtering in Pakistan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Shahzad, Thanks for this, we have been corresponding with Wahaj us Siraj, ISPAK and ICT R & & D fund for clarity over the recent statements, and have been able to get an extensive interview and will be publishing it shortly. Furthermore, since after our constitutional petition that resulted in a stay order, fortunately we have legal rights to inquire details regarding the mentioned method of URL blocking and filtering. Given the state of right to information act in Pakistan, the process is arduous but will bring much needed clarity to the situation. [ Constitution Petition Accepted For Fundamental Rights Online: See here] Needless to say, the uncertainty is worrisome. Best, Sana -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Executive Director, Bolo Bhi, Advocacy-Policy-Research [http://bolobhi.org] Blogger: Dawn.com [http://blog.dawn.com/author/sana-saleem/] Global Voices: [http://globalvoicesonline.org/author/sana-saleem/] The Guardian:[ www.guardian.co.uk/profile/sana-saleem] Blog: http://sanasaleem.com] Twitter: @sanasaleem< http://twitter.com/sanasaleem> @bolobhi On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 12:47 PM, Shahzad Ahmad wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > More bad news coming out from Pakistan… so seemingly much talked about > Internet filtering system effectively gets an implementation through this > policy directive. > > > http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-13-17209-Govt-orders-blocking-of-all--blasphemous-pornographic-material-on-net > > Best wishes > Shahzad > www.bytesforall.pk > * > * > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Mon Sep 3 04:43:35 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 14:13:35 +0530 Subject: [governance] New policy directive for Internet Filtering in Pakistan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That's good to hear Sana. Do keep us informed here - this is big news. -C On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 2:11 PM, Sana Saleem wrote: > Hi Shahzad, > Thanks for this, we have been corresponding with Wahaj us Siraj, ISPAK and > ICT R & & D fund for clarity over the recent statements, and have been able > to get an extensive interview and will be publishing it shortly. > > Furthermore, since after our constitutional petition that resulted in a > stay order, fortunately we have legal rights to inquire details regarding > the mentioned method of URL blocking and filtering. Given the state of > right to information act in Pakistan, the process is arduous but will bring > much needed clarity to the situation. > > [ Constitution Petition Accepted For Fundamental Rights Online: See here] > > Needless to say, the uncertainty is worrisome. > > Best, > Sana > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Executive Director, Bolo Bhi, Advocacy-Policy-Research [http://bolobhi.org] > > Blogger: Dawn.com [http://blog.dawn.com/author/sana-saleem/] > Global Voices: [http://globalvoicesonline.org/author/sana-saleem/] > The Guardian:[ www.guardian.co.uk/profile/sana-saleem] > Blog: http://sanasaleem.com] Twitter: @sanasaleem< > http://twitter.com/sanasaleem> > @bolobhi > > > > > On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 12:47 PM, Shahzad Ahmad wrote: > >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> More bad news coming out from Pakistan… so seemingly much talked about >> Internet filtering system effectively gets an implementation through this >> policy directive. >> >> >> http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-13-17209-Govt-orders-blocking-of-all--blasphemous-pornographic-material-on-net >> >> Best wishes >> Shahzad >> www.bytesforall.pk >> * >> * >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fulvio.frati at unimi.it Mon Sep 3 04:45:46 2012 From: fulvio.frati at unimi.it (Fulvio Frati) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2012 10:45:46 +0200 Subject: [governance] DEADLINE EXTENSION: 8th Int. Conf. on SIGNAL IMAGE TECHNOLOGY & INTERNET BASED SYSTEMS (SITIS2012)- SIT Track Message-ID: <034901cd89b0$82b71b60$88255220$@unimi.it> !!!!!!!! DEADLINE EXTENSION : SEPTEMBER 21, 2012 !!!!!!!!!! CALL FOR PAPERS (Our apologies if you receive multiple copies of this CFP ====================================================================== Track Signal and Image Technologies (SIT) - SITIS 2012 The 8th International Conference on SIGNAL IMAGE TECHNOLOGY & INTERNET BASED SYSTEMS November 25 - 29, 2012, SORRENTO Naples - Italy (Sponsored by IEEE, ACM, IFIP pending) http://www.sitis-conf.org/ The SITIS conference is dedicated to research on the technologies used to represent, share and process information in various forms, ranging from signal, image, and multimedia data to traditional structured data and semi structured data found in the web. The track "Signal & Image Technologies" (SIT) focuses on recent developments in digital signal processing and pays particular attention to evolutions in audiovisual signal processing, analysis, coding and authentication, and retrieval techniques. The Topics of interest include but not limited to: *Image Processing and Analysis Image filtering, Restoration, Enhancement Image segmentation Image acquisition, manipulation and compression Image synthesis Image databases Content based image retrieval Pattern analysis and recognition Shape matching Learning and classification Colour Imaging Multispectral processing Stereoscopic and 3D processing 3D Object Extraction Surface reconstruction Geometric algorithms Computational geometry *Signal processing Theory and Methods Gibbs models and MRFS Digital Filters and Filter Banks design Wavelets and Multirate Signal Processing Spectral analysis Time frequency signal analysis Nonlinear and Multidimensional Signal Processing Variational formulations PDE Radar, sonar Antennas Mobile Signal Processing Fast algorithms Real time signal processing Signal noise control * Applications Archiving Digital video broadcasting Biomedical Imaging Nuclear Xray, and magnetic resonance imaging Tomographic imaging Remote Sensing Document Image Processing and Analysis Astronomy Geosciences and environment Artificial intelligence applications Neural networks applications Fuzzy logic applications Biometrics and Applications *Image/Video Coding and Authentication Coding standards Image and video over networks Error resilience Video processing and streaming Motion detection and estimation Object tracking Image sequence processing and analysis Multimedia processing Video streaming Watermark Embedding and Detection Reliable Watermark Recovery Stochastic Aspects of Data Hiding Submission and publication -------------------------- The conference will include keynote addresses, tutorials, and regular and workshop sessions. SITIS’12 invites submission of high quality and original papers on the topics listed above. All submitted papers will be peer-reviewed by at least two reviewers for technical merit, originality, significance and relevance to track topics. Papers must be up to 8 pages and follow IEEE double columns publication format. Accepted papers will be included in the conference proceedings and published by IEEE Computer Society and referenced in IEEE explore and major indexes. Important dates --------------- * Paper Submission: September 21, 2012 * Acceptance/Reject notification: October 07, 2012 * Camera ready: October 15, 2012 * Author registration: October 20, 2012 Track Chairs ------------ Bruno Apolloni, University of Milan, Italy Albert Dipanda, University of Burgundy, France General Chair ------------- Ernesto Damiani, Università degli Studi di Milano, Italy Program Chair ------------- Giuseppe De Pietro, ICAR-CNR, Italy Local Organization Committee -------------------------- Luigi Gallo, ICAR-CNR, Italy Marco Anisetti, Università degli Studi di Milano, Italy Valerio Bellandi, Università degli Studi di Milano, Italy Fulvio Frati, Università degli Studi di Milano, Italy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From sana at bolobhi.org Mon Sep 3 04:46:42 2012 From: sana at bolobhi.org (Sana Saleem) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 13:46:42 +0500 Subject: [governance] New policy directive for Internet Filtering in Pakistan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Chaitanya, thank you. Will definitely do. I think it is most important to back all our advocacy for research. In the past govt's throwing away directive and rolling it back has been exhausting. As advocacy group that focuses researched backed advocacy to influence policy change, I feel it's important to inform netizens and subsequently encourage them to ask questions of the government. Following the issue very closely and will release more information. Best, Sana -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Executive Director, Bolo Bhi, Advocacy-Policy-Research [http://bolobhi.org] Blogger: Dawn.com [http://blog.dawn.com/author/sana-saleem/] Global Voices: [http://globalvoicesonline.org/author/sana-saleem/] The Guardian:[ www.guardian.co.uk/profile/sana-saleem] Blog: http://sanasaleem.com] Twitter: @sanasaleem< http://twitter.com/sanasaleem> @bolobhi On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 1:43 PM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar wrote: > That's good to hear Sana. Do keep us informed here - this is big news. > > -C > > On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 2:11 PM, Sana Saleem wrote: > >> Hi Shahzad, >> Thanks for this, we have been corresponding with Wahaj us Siraj, ISPAK >> and ICT R & & D fund for clarity over the recent statements, and have been >> able to get an extensive interview and will be publishing it shortly. >> >> Furthermore, since after our constitutional petition that resulted in a >> stay order, fortunately we have legal rights to inquire details regarding >> the mentioned method of URL blocking and filtering. Given the state of >> right to information act in Pakistan, the process is arduous but will bring >> much needed clarity to the situation. >> >> [ Constitution Petition Accepted For Fundamental Rights Online: See here] >> >> Needless to say, the uncertainty is worrisome. >> >> Best, >> Sana >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Executive Director, Bolo Bhi, Advocacy-Policy-Research [ >> http://bolobhi.org] >> Blogger: Dawn.com [http://blog.dawn.com/author/sana-saleem/] >> Global Voices: [http://globalvoicesonline.org/author/sana-saleem/] >> The Guardian:[ www.guardian.co.uk/profile/sana-saleem] >> Blog: http://sanasaleem.com] Twitter: @sanasaleem< >> http://twitter.com/sanasaleem> >> @bolobhi >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 12:47 PM, Shahzad Ahmad wrote: >> >>> Dear Colleagues, >>> >>> More bad news coming out from Pakistan… so seemingly much talked about >>> Internet filtering system effectively gets an implementation through this >>> policy directive. >>> >>> >>> http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-13-17209-Govt-orders-blocking-of-all--blasphemous-pornographic-material-on-net >>> >>> Best wishes >>> Shahzad >>> www.bytesforall.pk >>> * >>> * >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >>> To be removed from the list, visit: >>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >>> >>> For all other list information and functions, see: >>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >>> >>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >>> >>> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fulvio.frati at unimi.it Mon Sep 3 05:12:03 2012 From: fulvio.frati at unimi.it (Fulvio Frati) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2012 11:12:03 +0200 Subject: [governance] DEADLINE EXTENSION: 8th Int. Conf. on SIGNAL IMAGE TECHNOLOGY & INTERNET BASED SYSTEMS (SITIS2012)- IBCS Track Message-ID: <040601cd89b4$2f3b33a0$8db19ae0$@unimi.it> [Apologies if you receive multiple copies of this message] ============================================================================ CALL FOR PAPERS Internet-Based Computing and Systems (IBCS) track at SITIS 2012 - The 8th International Conference on SIGNAL IMAGE TECHNOLOGY & INTERNET BASED SYSTEMS In cooperation with IEEE Technical Committee on Multimedia Computing (pending) November 25-29, 2012, SORRENTO - Naples, Italy http://www.sitis-conf.org/ ============================================================================ The SITIS conference is dedicated to research on the technologies used to represent, share and process information in various forms, ranging from signal, image, and multimedia data to traditional structured data and semi structured data found in the web. The focus of the track on Internet Based Systems and Computing is on emerging and novel concepts, architectures and methodologies for information management. Novel architectures are being proposed to allow resource sharing and distributed processing of data with increasing complexity. Cloud computing, peer to peer computing, mobile information systems, semantic based applications, and decision support systems are a few examples of these applications and systems. The Topics of interest include (but are not limited to): Data semantics * Multiple Representation * Ontologies * Conceptual Data Modeling * Knowledge Representation and Reasoning * Metadata * Evolution and Change * Web Semantics and Semi Structured Data * Semantic Caching * Data Warehousing and Semantic * Semantics in Data Visualization * Semantic Services for Mobile Users * Applications of Semantic-Driven Approaches Web-Centric Systems * Semantic Web and Web Service * Web Services and Service Computing * Semantics of Web Services Compositions * Future Internet for Enterprise Systems * Hypermedia and Adaptation * E-Commerce and E-Learning * Data Mining Methods and Web * Machine Learning Advanced Information Systems and Applications * Spatial Modeling and Geographical Information Systems (GIS) * GIS and Sustainable Development * Environmental GIS * GIS and Remote Sensing * Urban GIS * Spatial, temporal modeling semantics Information System Interoperability * Digital Libraries * Semantic Interoperability and Semantic Mediators * Ontologies Based Systems * Contextual Reasoning in Distributed Ontologies Emergent Semantics * Context-Dependent Semantics * Contextual Reasoning in Distributed Ontologies * Ontologies Based Systems * Context-Dependent Semantics * Communication in Multi-Agents Systems * Emergent Semantic Interoperability in Large-Scale Systems * Emergent Semantics in Content Retrieval Systems Cooperative information and Distributed Systems * Information Sharing * Cloud computing for Business * Peer To Peer Computing and Applications * Knowledge and Semantic Grid * Semantics Of Peer Data Management Systems * Mobile Information Systems and Computing Multimedia and application * Image and Video Databases * Image and Video Indexing and Retrieval * Emergent Semantics in Content Retrieval Systems * Semantics and Meta Data in Multimedia Systems * Content-Based Indexing and Search * Multimedia Data Modeling and Visualization * Tools, Benchmarks, Evaluation Protocols and Standards Information security * Security Modeling and Access Control Protocol * Intrusion Avoidance, Detection, and Response * Web Security and Supporting Systems Security * Denial of Service: Attacks and Countermeasures * Intellectual Property Protection * Fundamental Services on Network and Distributed Systems * Security and Privacy for Emerging Technologies * Trust based systems ==== Submission and publication ==== The conference will include keynote addresses, tutorials, and regular and workshop sessions. SITIS'12 invites submission of high quality and original papers on the topics listed above. Papers must be up to 8 pages and follow IEEE double columns publication format. All submitted papers will be peer-reviewed by at least two reviewers for technical merit, originality, significance and relevance to track topics. Accepted papers will be included in the conference proceedings and published by IEEE Computer Society and referenced in IEEE explore and major indexes. SITIS'12 online submission system: http://www.easychair.org/conferences/?conf=sitis2012 ==== Important Dates ==== * Paper Submission: September 21, 2012 * Acceptance/Reject notification: October 07, 2012 * Camera ready: October 15, 2012 * Author registration: October 20, 2012 ==== Program Committee ==== General Chair * Ernesto Damiani, University of Milan, Italy Program Chair * Giuseppe De Pietro, ICAR-CNR, Italy Track Chairs * Giandomenico Spezzano, ICAR-CNR, Italy * William I. Grosky, University of Michigan-Dearborn, USA Local Organizing Committee * Luigi Gallo, ICAR-CNR, Italy * Marco Anisetti, University of Milan, Italy * Valerio Bellandi, University of Milan, Italy * Fulvio Frati, University of Milan, Italy ==== Contact ==== info at sitis-conf.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From avri at ella.com Mon Sep 3 06:13:53 2012 From: avri at ella.com (Avri Doria) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 06:13:53 -0400 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: <5038BD70.7080909@itforchange.net> References: <50332E85.8060106@itforchange.net> <50333A5C.7060908@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD21F9B4D@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <5038BD70.7080909@itforchange.net> Message-ID: On 25 Aug 2012, at 07:56, parminder wrote: > No, it will make European/ Indian decision applicable *only* to ICM registry and *not* to the ICANN. This is a straight forward and obvious fact despite your very clever attempt to twist it to suit you. On the contrary various rulings in various countries against Internet companies such as Google and Twitter (I think there are examples in other fields like mining), show that when a company has an office/staff in a country, not only is the company liable for negative rulings, sometimes the employees are arrested. I would think that qualifies as having an effect. But certainly, the US courts have the greatest leverage by far so far. I agree full heartedly that ICANN MUST internationalize and have thought so since the days of WGIG. And while it creeps toward more international accountability, it is true that it remains primarily under US legal control, and has agreed to maintain that. Additionally the IANA contract bid required a US company, which did not help things. Part of the problem with changing over to a more international arrangements, e.g. a host country agreement + with some country (perhaps even the US), is that it is hard to do and no one has come up with a good detailed plan* yet for dealing with of ICANN governance-by-contract in an internationalized environment. Well that, and ICANN also does not seem to have the will for such a change. For years, a few people inside ICANN have been pushing for real work on solving the problem of ICANN internationalization to little avail - maybe with a new regime in charge of ICANN over the next year, this will happen. I'll keep pushing for it. avri * there have been hand-waving plans that could be explored -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Mon Sep 3 06:20:30 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 15:50:30 +0530 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: References: <50332E85.8060106@itforchange.net> <50333A5C.7060908@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD21F9B4D@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <5038BD70.7080909@itforchange.net> Message-ID: Very true Avri, telecom has a very good example here in India Take Vodafone as an example. The government here modified the tax law with retrospective effect from 1960-something just to get them to pay a few billion rupees extra in taxes. Though Vodafone wasnt an Indian entity they bought an office (and linked services) in India - yet the rules in India - modified RETROSPECTIVELY - still affect them. So if the government were to pursue they could technically recover taxes from them. What are the hand-waving options btw? They sound interesting :) -C On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 3:43 PM, Avri Doria wrote: > > On 25 Aug 2012, at 07:56, parminder wrote: > > > No, it will make European/ Indian decision applicable *only* to ICM > registry and *not* to the ICANN. This is a straight forward and obvious > fact despite your very clever attempt to twist it to suit you. > > > On the contrary various rulings in various countries against Internet > companies such as Google and Twitter (I think there are examples in other > fields like mining), show that when a company has an office/staff in a > country, not only is the company liable for negative rulings, sometimes the > employees are arrested. I would think that qualifies as having an effect. > But certainly, the US courts have the greatest leverage by far so far. > > I agree full heartedly that ICANN MUST internationalize and have thought > so since the days of WGIG. And while it creeps toward more international > accountability, it is true that it remains primarily under US legal > control, and has agreed to maintain that. Additionally the IANA contract > bid required a US company, which did not help things. Part of the problem > with changing over to a more international arrangements, e.g. a host > country agreement + with some country (perhaps even the US), is that it is > hard to do and no one has come up with a good detailed plan* yet for > dealing with of ICANN governance-by-contract in an internationalized > environment. Well that, and ICANN also does not seem to have the will for > such a change. > > For years, a few people inside ICANN have been pushing for real work on > solving the problem of ICANN internationalization to little avail - maybe > with a new regime in charge of ICANN over the next year, this will happen. > I'll keep pushing for it. > > avri > > * there have been hand-waving plans that could be explored > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From roland at internetpolicyagency.com Mon Sep 3 07:07:06 2012 From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 12:07:06 +0100 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> Message-ID: In message <504336F8.90809 at panamo.eu>, at 12:37:44 on Sun, 2 Sep 2012, Dominique Lacroix
writes >> What's different about the ICANN system is that a lone voice can make >>a complaint which will be heard. >Aren't you joking, Roland, are you? You've not seen Paul Foody in action then? -- Roland Perry -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From roland at internetpolicyagency.com Mon Sep 3 07:56:42 2012 From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 12:56:42 +0100 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> Message-ID: In message , at 23:49:07 on Sun, 2 Sep 2012, Fahd A. Batayneh writes >What's different about the ICANN system is that a lone voice can make a >complaint which will be heard. >-- >Aren't you joking, Roland, are you? > >Maybe a good example would be the court case that was filed by an >earlier ICANN board member to get access to documents that ICANN >rejected to reveal to him I've never understood what kind of deadlock they got themselves into for that to be necessary. However, it's a very different exercise to making yourself heard within the Policy Development Process. -- Roland Perry -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From dl at panamo.eu Mon Sep 3 08:06:33 2012 From: dl at panamo.eu (Dominique Lacroix) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2012 14:06:33 +0200 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> Message-ID: <50449D49.5040502@panamo.eu> Le 03/09/12 13:07, Roland Perry a écrit : > In message <504336F8.90809 at panamo.eu>, at 12:37:44 on Sun, 2 Sep 2012, > Dominique Lacroix
writes >>> What's different about the ICANN system is that a lone voice can >>> make a complaint which will be heard. >> Aren't you joking, Roland, are you? > You've not seen Paul Foody in action then? Of course, not. Who is he, please? @+, Dom -- Dominique Lacroix Société européenne de l'Internet http://www.ies-france.eu +33 (0)6 63 24 39 14 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From roland at internetpolicyagency.com Mon Sep 3 08:59:11 2012 From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 13:59:11 +0100 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <50449D49.5040502@panamo.eu> References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> <50449D49.5040502@panamo.eu> Message-ID: In message <50449D49.5040502 at panamo.eu>, at 14:06:33 on Mon, 3 Sep 2012, Dominique Lacroix
writes >What's different about the ICANN system is that a lone voice can make a >complaint which will be heard. --- >Aren't you joking, Roland, are you? --- >You've not seen Paul Foody in action then? --- >Of course, not. Who is he, please He's a regular contributor to ICANN meetings, and no doubt also their public comment process. http://prague44.icann.org/node/31829 -- Roland Perry -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From hakik at hakik.org Mon Sep 3 09:21:26 2012 From: hakik at hakik.org (Hakikur Rahman) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2012 14:21:26 +0100 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: References: <50332E85.8060106@itforchange.net> <50333A5C.7060908@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD21F9B4D@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <5038BD70.7080909@itforchange.net> Message-ID: Totally agree. In case of Bangladesh, I remember those monopoly days when cellular phone came first. Now with the soft policy of the government and the increased competition, penetration to the Internet through the cellular phone is becoming more popular (and acceptable) due to various pricing plans. Best regards, Hakikur At 11:20 AM 9/3/2012, Chaitanya Dhareshwar wrote: >Very true Avri, telecom has a very good example here in India > >Take Vodafone as an example. The government here modified the tax >law with retrospective effect from 1960-something just to get them >to pay a few billion rupees extra in taxes. Though Vodafone wasnt an >Indian entity they bought an office (and linked services) in India - >yet the rules in India - modified RETROSPECTIVELY - still affect >them. So if the government were to pursue they could technically >recover taxes from them. > >What are the hand-waving options btw? They sound interesting :) > >-C > >On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 3:43 PM, Avri Doria ><avri at ella.com> wrote: > >On 25 Aug 2012, at 07:56, parminder wrote: > > > No, it will make European/ Indian decision applicable *only* to > ICM registry and *not* to the ICANN. This is a straight forward and > obvious fact despite your very clever attempt to twist it to suit you. > > >On the contrary various rulings in various countries against >Internet companies such as Google and Twitter (I think there are >examples in other fields like mining), show that when a company has >an office/staff in a country, not only is the company liable for >negative rulings, sometimes the employees are arrested. I would >think that qualifies as having an effect. But certainly, the US >courts have the greatest leverage by far so far. > >I agree full heartedly that ICANN MUST internationalize and have >thought so since the days of WGIG. And while it creeps toward more >international accountability, it is true that it remains primarily >under US legal control, and has agreed to maintain that. >Additionally the IANA contract bid required a US company, which did >not help things. Part of the problem with changing over to a more >international arrangements, e.g. a host country agreement + with >some country (perhaps even the US), is that it is hard to do and no >one has come up with a good detailed plan* yet for dealing with of >ICANN governance-by-contract in an internationalized >environment. Well that, and ICANN also does not seem to have the >will for such a change. > >For years, a few people inside ICANN have been pushing for real work >on solving the problem of ICANN internationalization to little avail >- maybe with a new regime in charge of ICANN over the next year, >this will happen. I'll keep pushing for it. > >avri > >* there have been hand-waving plans that could be explored > >____________________________________________________________ >You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org >To be removed from the list, visit: > >http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > >For all other list information and functions, see: > >http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > >Translate this email: >http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > >____________________________________________________________ >You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org >To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > >For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > >Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From shahzad at bytesforall.pk Mon Sep 3 12:39:29 2012 From: shahzad at bytesforall.pk (Shahzad Ahmad) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2012 21:39:29 +0500 Subject: [governance] Pakistan: PTA blocks website against its own chief In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Folks, This is one classic example that how PTA will use different reasons and excuses to filter the Internet to curb citizens voices and that may eventually include political discourse. http://www.pakistanpressfoundation.org/latest-news/56863 Best wishes and regards Shahzad From: Shahzad Ahmad Reply-To: , Shahzad Ahmad Date: Monday, September 3, 2012 12:47 PM To: "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" Subject: [governance] New policy directive for Internet Filtering in Pakistan Dear Colleagues, More bad news coming out from PakistanŠ so seemingly much talked about Internet filtering system effectively gets an implementation through this policy directive. http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-13-17209-Govt-orders-blocking-of-all-- blasphemous-pornographic-material-on-net Best wishes Shahzad www.bytesforall.pk ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From karl at cavebear.com Mon Sep 3 13:31:04 2012 From: karl at cavebear.com (Karl Auerbach) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2012 10:31:04 -0700 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> Message-ID: <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> On 09/02/2012 01:49 PM, Fahd A. Batayneh wrote: Le 02/09/12 09:27, Roland Perry a écrit : > > What's different about the ICANN system is that a lone voice can > make a complaint which will be heard. > Maybe a good example would be the court case that was filed by an > earlier ICANN board member to get access to documents that ICANN > rejected to reveal to him. I am that board member. Have you ever tried to chop eucalyptus logs with an ax? The wood is so rubbery that the blade just bounces off, leaving only a small notch: a lot of effort for little progress. ICANN is like a eucalyptus log. If you want to affect it don't bring an ax; bring a chain saw. ICANN did not change much after my law suite prevailed. In fact in some ways they changed their procedures to become even more secretive. For instance their law firm changed their billing procedures so that rather than enumerating the specific items of work and charges for that work the monthly statements became a one-line statement of the total amount of money due for the month's work. This was done, I believe, to prevent any future board member from evaluating the nature and quality of ICANN's massive outflows of money to the law firm that created ICANN. Attacks on me made by ICANN in their legal filings were, to my mind, personal, gratuitous, unprofessional, and, of course, unfounded. A decade has passed and I can't remember whether we moved to exclude those on the grounds that ICANN's "evidence" was not relevant to the case at hand or whether we left it in as demonstrative of ICANN's way of reacting to those it considered hostile. Even after the court threw out ICANN's defenses and granted me nearly every thing that I had asked ICANN's press releases tried to characterize their utter defeat as if they had won a great victory. And I am still ostracized by many former ICANN board members for taking (and, of course, winning) that completely justified legal action. Many of the case materials are online: > https://w2.eff.org/Infrastructure/DNS_control/ICANN_IANA_IAHC/Auerbach_v_ICANN/ What surprised me the most was the degree to which ICANN was, and I believe remains, an entity that does not comprehend the role of its board of directors, both as a collective body and as individual members. The larger consideration is that ICANN has always had an institutional paranoia the engenders an automatic, visceral hostility to things that are not delivered wrapped with almost sycophantic deference. --karl-- -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From jstyre at jstyre.com Mon Sep 3 14:00:34 2012 From: jstyre at jstyre.com (James S. Tyre) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 11:00:34 -0700 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> Message-ID: <00d201cd89fe$0462e160$0d28a420$@jstyre.com> > I am that board member. And I was your lead lawyer. (Which, obviously, you know, but most here presumably don't.) > Attacks on me made by ICANN in their legal filings were, to my mind, personal, > gratuitous, unprofessional, and, of course, unfounded. A decade has passed and I > can't remember whether we moved to exclude those on the grounds that ICANN's > "evidence" was not relevant to the case at hand or whether we left it in as > demonstrative of ICANN's way of reacting to those it considered hostile. We filed token objections to some of it. The Court ruled in your favor without really addressing those objections. My particular favorite was Vint introducing a strongly worded email from John Gilmore to Vint as "evidence" of your supposedly bad character. > Even after the court threw out ICANN's defenses and granted me nearly every thing that > I had asked ICANN's press releases tried to characterize their utter defeat as if they > had won a great victory. At least Louis gave us ICANN Staff coffee mugs to show for it. I still have mine. '-) -- James S. Tyre Law Offices of James S. Tyre 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) jstyre at jstyre.com Policy Fellow, Electronic Frontier Foundation https://www.eff.org > -----Original Message----- > From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance- > request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Karl Auerbach > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 10:31 AM > To: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com > Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org > Subject: Re: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest > > On 09/02/2012 01:49 PM, Fahd A. Batayneh wrote: > Le 02/09/12 09:27, Roland Perry a écrit : > > > > What's different about the ICANN system is that a lone voice can > > make a complaint which will be heard. > > > Maybe a good example would be the court case that was filed by an > > earlier ICANN board member to get access to documents that ICANN > > rejected to reveal to him. > > I am that board member. > > Have you ever tried to chop eucalyptus logs with an ax? The wood is so rubbery that > the blade just bounces off, leaving only a small notch: a lot of effort for little > progress. > > ICANN is like a eucalyptus log. If you want to affect it don't bring an ax; bring a > chain saw. > > ICANN did not change much after my law suite prevailed. In fact in some ways they > changed their procedures to become even more secretive. For instance their law firm > changed their billing procedures so that rather than enumerating the specific items of > work and charges for that work the monthly statements became a one-line statement of > the total amount of money due for the month's work. This was done, I believe, to > prevent any future board member from evaluating the nature and quality of ICANN's > massive outflows of money to the law firm that created ICANN. > > Attacks on me made by ICANN in their legal filings were, to my mind, personal, > gratuitous, unprofessional, and, of course, unfounded. A decade has passed and I > can't remember whether we moved to exclude those on the grounds that ICANN's > "evidence" was not relevant to the case at hand or whether we left it in as > demonstrative of ICANN's way of reacting to those it considered hostile. > > Even after the court threw out ICANN's defenses and granted me nearly every thing that > I had asked ICANN's press releases tried to characterize their utter defeat as if they > had won a great victory. > > And I am still ostracized by many former ICANN board members for taking (and, of > course, winning) that completely justified legal action. > > Many of the case materials are online: > > > https://w2.eff.org/Infrastructure/DNS_control/ICANN_IANA_IAHC/Auerbach > > _v_ICANN/ > > What surprised me the most was the degree to which ICANN was, and I believe remains, > an entity that does not comprehend the role of its board of directors, both as a > collective body and as individual members. > > The larger consideration is that ICANN has always had an institutional paranoia the > engenders an automatic, visceral hostility to things that are not delivered wrapped > with almost sycophantic deference. > > --karl-- > > > -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Mon Sep 3 14:30:48 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 06:30:48 +1200 Subject: [governance] Pakistan: PTA blocks website against its own chief In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Shahzad, If your Constitution has certain civil liberties enshrined in it. Why don't you consider constitutional redress and you can suss out if people and organisations are keen to support you in sending in amicus briefs with appropriate case authorities for the matter once it is in motion. Kind Regards, Sala On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 4:39 AM, Shahzad Ahmad wrote: > Folks, > > This is one classic example that how PTA will use different reasons and > excuses to filter the Internet to curb citizens voices and that may > eventually include political discourse. > > http://www.pakistanpressfoundation.org/latest-news/56863 > > Best wishes and regards > > Shahzad > > > > From: Shahzad Ahmad > Reply-To: , Shahzad Ahmad < > shahzad at bytesforall.pk> > Date: Monday, September 3, 2012 12:47 PM > To: "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" > Subject: [governance] New policy directive for Internet Filtering in > Pakistan > > Dear Colleagues, > > More bad news coming out from Pakistan… so seemingly much talked about > Internet filtering system effectively gets an implementation through this > policy directive. > > > http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-13-17209-Govt-orders-blocking-of-all--blasphemous-pornographic-material-on-net > > Best wishes > Shahzad > www.bytesforall.pk > * > * > ____________________________________________________________ You received > this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.orgTo be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and > functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your > profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/Translate this email: > http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From shahzad at bytesforall.pk Mon Sep 3 14:41:28 2012 From: shahzad at bytesforall.pk (Shahzad Ahmad) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2012 23:41:28 +0500 Subject: [governance] Pakistan: PTA blocks website against its own chief In-Reply-To: Message-ID: That may not work Sala for several reasons, Constitutional provisions are marred with several vague definitions and qualifications ;) But yes we are consulting with our partners and will get back with updates. Best wishes and regards Shahzad From: "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" Reply-To: , "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" Date: Monday, September 3, 2012 11:30 PM To: , Shahzad Ahmad Subject: Re: [governance] Pakistan: PTA blocks website against its own chief Dear Shahzad, If your Constitution has certain civil liberties enshrined in it. Why don't you consider constitutional redress and you can suss out if people and organisations are keen to support you in sending in amicus briefs with appropriate case authorities for the matter once it is in motion. Kind Regards, Sala On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 4:39 AM, Shahzad Ahmad wrote: > Folks, > > This is one classic example that how PTA will use different reasons and > excuses to filter the Internet to curb citizens voices and that may eventually > include political discourse. > > http://www.pakistanpressfoundation.org/latest-news/56863 > > Best wishes and regards > > Shahzad > > > > From: Shahzad Ahmad > Reply-To: , Shahzad Ahmad > > Date: Monday, September 3, 2012 12:47 PM > To: "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" > Subject: [governance] New policy directive for Internet Filtering in Pakistan > > Dear Colleagues, > > More bad news coming out from PakistanŠ so seemingly much talked about > Internet filtering system effectively gets an implementation through this > policy directive. > > http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-13-17209-Govt-orders-blocking-of-all--bl > asphemous-pornographic-material-on-net > > Best wishes > Shahzad > www.bytesforall.pk > > ____________________________________________________________ You received this > message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be > removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all > other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the > IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: > http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From nne75 at yahoo.com Mon Sep 3 14:47:56 2012 From: nne75 at yahoo.com (Nnenna) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 11:47:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [governance] Visa letters for Baku are being sent. I have received one Message-ID: <1346698076.15752.YahooMailNeo@web130106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi people,   I reveived:   "Hello, pls. find attached the respective invitation letter. Looking forward to see you in Baku. -- Best Regards, Murad Maksudov IGF Host Country Secretariat, Visa Department +994 70 2100900"   FYI Nnenna  Nwakanma |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG  |  Consultants Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471 |Mob. 07416820 Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065| http://www.nnenna.org nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 | nnennaorg.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From sana at bolobhi.org Mon Sep 3 15:15:16 2012 From: sana at bolobhi.org (Sana Saleem) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 00:15:16 +0500 Subject: [governance] Pakistan: PTA blocks website against its own chief In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Sala, You're spot on about suing constitutional rights to fight back. We along with other civil society members filed a constitutional petition for fundamental rights online and were able to get a stay order on ad hoc blocking by the PTA, see here: http://bolobhi.org/press-release-public-statements/press-releases/constitutional-petition-accepted-for-fundamental-rights-online/ Also your point about other organizations teaming up is spot on, again. We issued a joint statement with ten global organizations working on freedom of expression and their support helped a great deal: http://bolobhi.org/press-release-public-statements/press-releases/global-coalition-of-ngos-call-for-official-withdrawal-of-censorship-plans/ Important to note that all ad hoc blocking since after the stay order is contempt of court, and we are already working on following up and challenging it in Sindh, Islamabad and Lahore High Court with our Partner organization Subh-e-Nau. Meanwhile all these directives are being collected as proof, you can find e-legislation timeline since 2006 here: http://bolobhi.org/resources/state-of-internet-in-pakistan-e-regulations-timeline/ Best and thank you for your support for freedom of expression and internet freedom in Pakistan. Best, Sana -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Executive Director, Bolo Bhi, Advocacy-Policy-Research [http://bolobhi.org] Blogger: Dawn.com [http://blog.dawn.com/author/sana-saleem/] Global Voices: [http://globalvoicesonline.org/author/sana-saleem/] The Guardian:[ www.guardian.co.uk/profile/sana-saleem] Blog: http://sanasaleem.com] Twitter: @sanasaleem< http://twitter.com/sanasaleem> @bolobhi On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 11:41 PM, Shahzad Ahmad wrote: > That may not work Sala for several reasons, > > Constitutional provisions are marred with several vague definitions and > qualifications ;) > > But yes we are consulting with our partners and will get back with > updates. > > Best wishes and regards > Shahzad > > > From: "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" < > salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> > Reply-To: , "Salanieta T. > Tamanikaiwaimaro" > Date: Monday, September 3, 2012 11:30 PM > > To: , Shahzad Ahmad > > Subject: Re: [governance] Pakistan: PTA blocks website against its own > chief > > Dear Shahzad, > > If your Constitution has certain civil liberties enshrined in it. Why > don't you consider constitutional redress and you can suss out if people > and organisations are keen to support you in sending in amicus briefs with > appropriate case authorities for the matter once it is in motion. > > Kind Regards, > Sala > > On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 4:39 AM, Shahzad Ahmad wrote: > >> Folks, >> >> This is one classic example that how PTA will use different reasons and >> excuses to filter the Internet to curb citizens voices and that may >> eventually include political discourse. >> >> http://www.pakistanpressfoundation.org/latest-news/56863 >> >> Best wishes and regards >> >> Shahzad >> >> >> >> From: Shahzad Ahmad >> Reply-To: , Shahzad Ahmad < >> shahzad at bytesforall.pk> >> Date: Monday, September 3, 2012 12:47 PM >> To: "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" >> Subject: [governance] New policy directive for Internet Filtering in >> Pakistan >> >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> More bad news coming out from Pakistan… so seemingly much talked about >> Internet filtering system effectively gets an implementation through this >> policy directive. >> >> >> http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-13-17209-Govt-orders-blocking-of-all--blasphemous-pornographic-material-on-net >> >> Best wishes >> Shahzad >> www.bytesforall.pk >> * >> * >> ____________________________________________________________ You received >> this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.orgTo be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and >> functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your >> profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/Translate this email: >> http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ You received > this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.orgTo be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and > functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your > profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/Translate this email: > http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Mon Sep 3 15:32:11 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 07:32:11 +1200 Subject: [governance] Pakistan: PTA blocks website against its own chief In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Sana, Excellent update. Without a doubt the Court won't find it amusing as well. It is good that you are exhausting all avenues locally within Pakistan to get traction. It will also be great to work towards strategic expansion of outreach into educating people in non confrontational, creative ways of having respect for collaboration. I have no doubt that you are already engaged in doing this. It will help to start witha few and peer education is critical whether trainings are for Judges, Judges can train Judges so seeking assistance from countries where they can allocate human resource training in specific areas. It will need a long term strategic approach and the point is to identify all possible fears such as "erosion of culture" or "trampling of values etc" and find ways to build bridges. A good neutral way to do this would be through projects where you can all work on. You probably are already doing this. I am excited about the good work that you are all doing in Pakistan. Well wishes Sana. Best Regards, Sala On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 7:15 AM, Sana Saleem wrote: > Hi Sala, > > You're spot on about suing constitutional rights to fight back. We along > with other civil society members filed a constitutional petition for > fundamental rights online and were able to get a stay order on ad hoc > blocking by the PTA, > see here: > http://bolobhi.org/press-release-public-statements/press-releases/constitutional-petition-accepted-for-fundamental-rights-online/ > > Also your point about other organizations teaming up is spot on, again. > > We issued a joint statement with ten global organizations working on > freedom of expression and their support helped a great deal: > http://bolobhi.org/press-release-public-statements/press-releases/global-coalition-of-ngos-call-for-official-withdrawal-of-censorship-plans/ > > Important to note that all ad hoc blocking since after the stay order is > contempt of court, and we are already working on following up and > challenging it in Sindh, Islamabad and Lahore High Court with our Partner > organization Subh-e-Nau. > Meanwhile all these directives are being collected as proof, you can find > e-legislation timeline since 2006 here: > > http://bolobhi.org/resources/state-of-internet-in-pakistan-e-regulations-timeline/ > > > Best and thank you for your support for freedom of expression and internet > freedom in Pakistan. > > Best, > Sana > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Executive Director, Bolo Bhi, Advocacy-Policy-Research [http://bolobhi.org] > > Blogger: Dawn.com [http://blog.dawn.com/author/sana-saleem/] > Global Voices: [http://globalvoicesonline.org/author/sana-saleem/] > The Guardian:[ www.guardian.co.uk/profile/sana-saleem] > Blog: http://sanasaleem.com] Twitter: @sanasaleem< > http://twitter.com/sanasaleem> > @bolobhi > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 11:41 PM, Shahzad Ahmad wrote: > >> That may not work Sala for several reasons, >> >> Constitutional provisions are marred with several vague definitions and >> qualifications ;) >> >> But yes we are consulting with our partners and will get back with >> updates. >> >> Best wishes and regards >> Shahzad >> >> >> From: "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" < >> salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> >> Reply-To: , "Salanieta T. >> Tamanikaiwaimaro" >> Date: Monday, September 3, 2012 11:30 PM >> >> To: , Shahzad Ahmad < >> shahzad at bytesforall.pk> >> Subject: Re: [governance] Pakistan: PTA blocks website against its own >> chief >> >> Dear Shahzad, >> >> If your Constitution has certain civil liberties enshrined in it. Why >> don't you consider constitutional redress and you can suss out if people >> and organisations are keen to support you in sending in amicus briefs with >> appropriate case authorities for the matter once it is in motion. >> >> Kind Regards, >> Sala >> >> On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 4:39 AM, Shahzad Ahmad wrote: >> >>> Folks, >>> >>> This is one classic example that how PTA will use different reasons and >>> excuses to filter the Internet to curb citizens voices and that may >>> eventually include political discourse. >>> >>> http://www.pakistanpressfoundation.org/latest-news/56863 >>> >>> Best wishes and regards >>> >>> Shahzad >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Shahzad Ahmad >>> Reply-To: , Shahzad Ahmad < >>> shahzad at bytesforall.pk> >>> Date: Monday, September 3, 2012 12:47 PM >>> To: "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" >>> Subject: [governance] New policy directive for Internet Filtering in >>> Pakistan >>> >>> Dear Colleagues, >>> >>> More bad news coming out from Pakistan… so seemingly much talked about >>> Internet filtering system effectively gets an implementation through this >>> policy directive. >>> >>> >>> http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-13-17209-Govt-orders-blocking-of-all--blasphemous-pornographic-material-on-net >>> >>> Best wishes >>> Shahzad >>> www.bytesforall.pk >>> * >>> * >>> ____________________________________________________________ You >>> received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: >>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information >>> and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit >>> your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>> http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: >>> http://translate.google.com/translate_t >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >>> To be removed from the list, visit: >>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >>> >>> For all other list information and functions, see: >>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >>> >>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala >> P.O. Box 17862 >> Suva >> Fiji >> >> Twitter: @SalanietaT >> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro >> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 >> >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ You received >> this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.orgTo be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and >> functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your >> profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/Translate this email: >> http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From sana at bolobhi.org Mon Sep 3 15:44:30 2012 From: sana at bolobhi.org (Sana Saleem) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 00:44:30 +0500 Subject: [governance] Pakistan: PTA blocks website against its own chief In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Sala, Thanks so much. The support from the global community is overwhelming. Indeed we are focusing on training especially of judges,lawyers as well as journalist in order to encourage collaboration and use all avenues possible. In complete agreement here regarding focusing on non-confrontational and creative methods. Will be happy to hear more suggestions from the group, or perhaps we can take this off the list. Shameless plug, since we believe in research backed advocacy to influence policy change, one of our usual strategies is to engage key players and help bring facts to educate audience and motivate them to take action. One such recent campaign is against the blackout of cellular services as a security measure, we are doing a series of video interviews with security experts, telecom representatives as well as human rights to educate people about the facts and to enable them to enable them to make informed choices. Here's part one of the series with security experts: http://bolobhi.org/pakistans-suspension-of-mobile-services-was-it-necessary/ Very excited and eager to hear more suggestions on creative methods we can adapt for strategic expansion of outreach, Best, Sana -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Executive Director, Bolo Bhi, Advocacy-Policy-Research [http://bolobhi.org] Blogger: Dawn.com [http://blog.dawn.com/author/sana-saleem/] Global Voices: [http://globalvoicesonline.org/author/sana-saleem/] The Guardian:[ www.guardian.co.uk/profile/sana-saleem] Blog: http://sanasaleem.com] Twitter: @sanasaleem< http://twitter.com/sanasaleem> @bolobhi On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 12:32 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear Sana, > > Excellent update. Without a doubt the Court won't find it amusing as well. > > It is good that you are exhausting all avenues locally within Pakistan to > get traction. It will also be great to work towards strategic expansion of > outreach into educating people in non confrontational, creative ways of > having respect for collaboration. > > I have no doubt that you are already engaged in doing this. It will help > to start witha few and peer education is critical whether trainings are > for Judges, Judges can train Judges so seeking assistance from countries > where they can allocate human resource training in specific areas. It will > need a long term strategic approach and the point is to identify all > possible fears such as "erosion of culture" or "trampling of values etc" > and find ways to build bridges. > > A good neutral way to do this would be through projects where you can all > work on. You probably are already doing this. I am excited about the good > work that you are all doing in Pakistan. Well wishes Sana. > > Best Regards, > Sala > > On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 7:15 AM, Sana Saleem wrote: > >> Hi Sala, >> >> You're spot on about suing constitutional rights to fight back. We along >> with other civil society members filed a constitutional petition for >> fundamental rights online and were able to get a stay order on ad hoc >> blocking by the PTA, >> see here: >> http://bolobhi.org/press-release-public-statements/press-releases/constitutional-petition-accepted-for-fundamental-rights-online/ >> >> Also your point about other organizations teaming up is spot on, again. >> >> We issued a joint statement with ten global organizations working on >> freedom of expression and their support helped a great deal: >> http://bolobhi.org/press-release-public-statements/press-releases/global-coalition-of-ngos-call-for-official-withdrawal-of-censorship-plans/ >> >> Important to note that all ad hoc blocking since after the stay order is >> contempt of court, and we are already working on following up and >> challenging it in Sindh, Islamabad and Lahore High Court with our Partner >> organization Subh-e-Nau. >> Meanwhile all these directives are being collected as proof, you can find >> e-legislation timeline since 2006 here: >> >> http://bolobhi.org/resources/state-of-internet-in-pakistan-e-regulations-timeline/ >> >> >> Best and thank you for your support for freedom of expression and >> internet freedom in Pakistan. >> >> Best, >> Sana >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Executive Director, Bolo Bhi, Advocacy-Policy-Research [ >> http://bolobhi.org] >> Blogger: Dawn.com [http://blog.dawn.com/author/sana-saleem/] >> Global Voices: [http://globalvoicesonline.org/author/sana-saleem/] >> The Guardian:[ www.guardian.co.uk/profile/sana-saleem] >> Blog: http://sanasaleem.com] Twitter: @sanasaleem< >> http://twitter.com/sanasaleem> >> @bolobhi >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 11:41 PM, Shahzad Ahmad wrote: >> >>> That may not work Sala for several reasons, >>> >>> Constitutional provisions are marred with several vague definitions and >>> qualifications ;) >>> >>> But yes we are consulting with our partners and will get back with >>> updates. >>> >>> Best wishes and regards >>> Shahzad >>> >>> >>> From: "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" < >>> salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> >>> Reply-To: , "Salanieta T. >>> Tamanikaiwaimaro" >>> Date: Monday, September 3, 2012 11:30 PM >>> >>> To: , Shahzad Ahmad < >>> shahzad at bytesforall.pk> >>> Subject: Re: [governance] Pakistan: PTA blocks website against its own >>> chief >>> >>> Dear Shahzad, >>> >>> If your Constitution has certain civil liberties enshrined in it. Why >>> don't you consider constitutional redress and you can suss out if people >>> and organisations are keen to support you in sending in amicus briefs with >>> appropriate case authorities for the matter once it is in motion. >>> >>> Kind Regards, >>> Sala >>> >>> On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 4:39 AM, Shahzad Ahmad wrote: >>> >>>> Folks, >>>> >>>> This is one classic example that how PTA will use different reasons and >>>> excuses to filter the Internet to curb citizens voices and that may >>>> eventually include political discourse. >>>> >>>> http://www.pakistanpressfoundation.org/latest-news/56863 >>>> >>>> Best wishes and regards >>>> >>>> Shahzad >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Shahzad Ahmad >>>> Reply-To: , Shahzad Ahmad < >>>> shahzad at bytesforall.pk> >>>> Date: Monday, September 3, 2012 12:47 PM >>>> To: "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" >>>> Subject: [governance] New policy directive for Internet Filtering in >>>> Pakistan >>>> >>>> Dear Colleagues, >>>> >>>> More bad news coming out from Pakistan… so seemingly much talked about >>>> Internet filtering system effectively gets an implementation through this >>>> policy directive. >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-13-17209-Govt-orders-blocking-of-all--blasphemous-pornographic-material-on-net >>>> >>>> Best wishes >>>> Shahzad >>>> www.bytesforall.pk >>>> * >>>> * >>>> ____________________________________________________________ You >>>> received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: >>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information >>>> and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit >>>> your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: >>>> http://translate.google.com/translate_t >>>> >>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >>>> To be removed from the list, visit: >>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >>>> >>>> For all other list information and functions, see: >>>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >>>> >>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala >>> P.O. Box 17862 >>> Suva >>> Fiji >>> >>> Twitter: @SalanietaT >>> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro >>> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ You >>> received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: >>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information >>> and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit >>> your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>> http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: >>> http://translate.google.com/translate_t >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >>> To be removed from the list, visit: >>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >>> >>> For all other list information and functions, see: >>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >>> >>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >>> >>> >> > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Mon Sep 3 16:09:14 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 22:09:14 +0200 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> Message-ID: Way to go Karl, I admire your stance. To be honest here, I am not very happy with some current board members of ICANN as I feel that they are in to fill-out numbers and show the world the diversity ICANN possesses (I do not want to mention anyone in specific here). On the contrary, it is a pity when professional people devote their time to a cause that is running against the waves. Fahd On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 7:31 PM, Karl Auerbach wrote: > On 09/02/2012 01:49 PM, Fahd A. Batayneh wrote: > Le 02/09/12 09:27, Roland Perry a écrit : > > > > What's different about the ICANN system is that a lone voice can > > make a complaint which will be heard. > > > Maybe a good example would be the court case that was filed by an > earlier ICANN board member to get access to > documents that ICANN > rejected to reveal to him. > > I am that board member. > > Have you ever tried to chop eucalyptus logs with an ax? The wood is so > rubbery that the blade just bounces off, leaving only a small notch: a lot > of effort for little progress. > > ICANN is like a eucalyptus log. If you want to affect it don't bring an > ax; bring a chain saw. > > ICANN did not change much after my law suite prevailed. In fact in some > ways they changed their procedures to become even more secretive. For > instance their law firm changed their billing procedures so that rather > than enumerating the specific items of work and charges for that work the > monthly statements became a one-line statement of the total amount of money > due for the month's work. This was done, I believe, to prevent any future > board member from evaluating the nature and quality of ICANN's massive > outflows of money to the law firm that created ICANN. > > Attacks on me made by ICANN in their legal filings were, to my mind, > personal, gratuitous, unprofessional, and, of course, unfounded. A decade > has passed and I can't remember whether we moved to exclude those on the > grounds that ICANN's "evidence" was not relevant to the case at hand or > whether we left it in as demonstrative of ICANN's way of > reacting to those it considered hostile. > > Even after the court threw out ICANN's defenses and granted me nearly > every thing that I had asked ICANN's press releases tried to characterize > their utter defeat as if they had won a great victory. > > And I am still ostracized by many former ICANN board members for taking > (and, of course, winning) that completely justified legal action. > > Many of the case materials are online: > > > > https://w2.eff.org/Infrastructure/DNS_control/ICANN_IANA_IAHC/Auerbach_v_ICANN/ > > What surprised me the most was the degree to which ICANN was, and I > believe remains, an entity that does not comprehend the role of its board > of directors, both as a collective body and as individual members. > > The larger consideration is that ICANN has always had an institutional > paranoia the engenders an automatic, visceral hostility to things that are > not delivered wrapped with almost sycophantic deference. > > --karl-- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Mon Sep 3 16:10:22 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 22:10:22 +0200 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <00d201cd89fe$0462e160$0d28a420$@jstyre.com> References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> <00d201cd89fe$0462e160$0d28a420$@jstyre.com> Message-ID: Way to go, the whole family is on-board now! Fahd On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 8:00 PM, James S. Tyre wrote: > > I am that board member. > > And I was your lead lawyer. (Which, obviously, you know, but most here > presumably don't.) > > > Attacks on me made by ICANN in their legal filings were, to my mind, > personal, > > gratuitous, unprofessional, and, of course, unfounded. A decade has > passed and I > > can't remember whether we moved to exclude those on the grounds that > ICANN's > > "evidence" was not relevant to the case at hand or whether we left it in > as > > demonstrative of ICANN's way of reacting to those it considered hostile. > > We filed token objections to some of it. The Court ruled in your favor > without really addressing those objections. My particular favorite was > Vint introducing a strongly worded email from John Gilmore to Vint as > "evidence" of your supposedly bad character. > > > Even after the court threw out ICANN's defenses and granted me nearly > every thing that > > I had asked ICANN's press releases tried to characterize their utter > defeat as if they > > had won a great victory. > > At least Louis gave us ICANN Staff coffee mugs to show for it. I still > have mine. '-) > > -- > James S. Tyre > Law Offices of James S. Tyre > 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 > Culver City, CA 90230-4969 > 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) > jstyre at jstyre.com > Policy Fellow, Electronic Frontier Foundation > https://www.eff.org > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance- > > request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Karl Auerbach > > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 10:31 AM > > To: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com > > Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org > > Subject: Re: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest > > > > On 09/02/2012 01:49 PM, Fahd A. Batayneh wrote: > > Le 02/09/12 09:27, Roland Perry a écrit : > > > > > > What's different about the ICANN system is that a lone voice > can > > > make a complaint which will be heard. > > > > > Maybe a good example would be the court case that was filed by an > > > earlier ICANN board member to get access to documents that ICANN > > > rejected to reveal to him. > > > > I am that board member. > > > > Have you ever tried to chop eucalyptus logs with an ax? The wood is so > rubbery that > > the blade just bounces off, leaving only a small notch: a lot of effort > for little > > progress. > > > > ICANN is like a eucalyptus log. If you want to affect it don't bring an > ax; bring a > > chain saw. > > > > ICANN did not change much after my law suite prevailed. In fact in some > ways they > > changed their procedures to become even more secretive. For instance > their law firm > > changed their billing procedures so that rather than enumerating the > specific items of > > work and charges for that work the monthly statements became a one-line > statement of > > the total amount of money due for the month's work. This was done, I > believe, to > > prevent any future board member from evaluating the nature and quality > of ICANN's > > massive outflows of money to the law firm that created ICANN. > > > > Attacks on me made by ICANN in their legal filings were, to my mind, > personal, > > gratuitous, unprofessional, and, of course, unfounded. A decade has > passed and I > > can't remember whether we moved to exclude those on the grounds that > ICANN's > > "evidence" was not relevant to the case at hand or whether we left it in > as > > demonstrative of ICANN's way of reacting to those it considered hostile. > > > > Even after the court threw out ICANN's defenses and granted me nearly > every thing that > > I had asked ICANN's press releases tried to characterize their utter > defeat as if they > > had won a great victory. > > > > And I am still ostracized by many former ICANN board members for taking > (and, of > > course, winning) that completely justified legal action. > > > > Many of the case materials are online: > > > > > https://w2.eff.org/Infrastructure/DNS_control/ICANN_IANA_IAHC/Auerbach > > > _v_ICANN/ > > > > What surprised me the most was the degree to which ICANN was, and I > believe remains, > > an entity that does not comprehend the role of its board of directors, > both as a > > collective body and as individual members. > > > > The larger consideration is that ICANN has always had an institutional > paranoia the > > engenders an automatic, visceral hostility to things that are not > delivered wrapped > > with almost sycophantic deference. > > > > --karl-- > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Mon Sep 3 18:02:04 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 10:02:04 +1200 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 5:31 AM, Karl Auerbach wrote: > On 09/02/2012 01:49 PM, Fahd A. Batayneh wrote: > Le 02/09/12 09:27, Roland Perry a écrit : > > > > What's different about the ICANN system is that a lone voice can > > make a complaint which will be heard. > > > Maybe a good example would be the court case that was filed by an > > earlier ICANN board member to get access to documents that ICANN > > rejected to reveal to him. > > I am that board member. > > Karl, which seat number was it that you occupied at the time? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From dogwallah at gmail.com Mon Sep 3 19:38:56 2012 From: dogwallah at gmail.com (McTim) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 19:38:56 -0400 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <50446C1E.7090402@gmail.com> References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <20120902181555.16F4E21AB6@inbound-queue-3.mail.thdo.gradwell.net> <50446C1E.7090402@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 4:36 AM, Riaz K Tayob wrote: > Many NGOs etc participate in settings where they feel compromised (eg WTO, > WHO, etc). The problem is not participation per se (although a strong case > can also be made for this), but the relationship from reform to more > equitable solutions on the radical spectrum. > > In other words, what is the middle path... exhortations that intimate that > participation is the way to go develop this are correct. But from what we > see in both tenor and substance, this does not seem to be intended as an > equitable process (on process applying same standards/norms irrespective of > who is saying it - equitable treatment). Unless there is some modicum of > openness the quest can be seen as an occupation/colonisation of legitimacy. > That said, there is always the paradox of participation... > > As indicated in other threads, what is the trajectory beyond status quoism? There is no such position as status quo-ism. There has been tremendous evolution in the Internet ecosystem over the last decade, and all signs are that this will continue. -- Cheers, McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Mon Sep 3 19:41:59 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 11:41:59 +1200 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <20120902181555.16F4E21AB6@inbound-queue-3.mail.thdo.gradwell.net> <50446C1E.7090402@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 11:38 AM, McTim wrote: > On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 4:36 AM, Riaz K Tayob wrote: > > Many NGOs etc participate in settings where they feel compromised (eg > WTO, > > WHO, etc). The problem is not participation per se (although a strong > case > > can also be made for this), but the relationship from reform to more > > equitable solutions on the radical spectrum. > > > > In other words, what is the middle path... exhortations that intimate > that > > participation is the way to go develop this are correct. But from what we > > see in both tenor and substance, this does not seem to be intended as an > > equitable process (on process applying same standards/norms irrespective > of > > who is saying it - equitable treatment). Unless there is some modicum of > > openness the quest can be seen as an occupation/colonisation of > legitimacy. > > That said, there is always the paradox of participation... > > > > As indicated in other threads, what is the trajectory beyond status > quoism? > > > There is no such position as status quo-ism. There has been > tremendous evolution in the Internet ecosystem over the last decade, > and all signs are that this will continue. > > I agree with McTim, there are only divergent and convergent interests...;) > -- > Cheers, > > McTim > "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A > route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From karl at cavebear.com Mon Sep 3 21:39:50 2012 From: karl at cavebear.com (Karl Auerbach) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2012 18:39:50 -0700 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> Message-ID: <50455BE6.7030802@cavebear.com> On 09/03/2012 03:02 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote: > I am that board member. > > Karl, which seat number was it that you occupied at the time? I don't remember having a number. I was the first (and only) publicly elected board member for the so-called "North American" area. (I use quote marks because I thought it odd that ICANN's "North America" included Greenland but not Mexico.) There were five of these publicly elected seats, one for each of ICANN's geographic regions. ICANN erased all of these seats so that there would never again be a public election. For the most part I thought that the five publicly elected directors were quite good - and in the North American election I felt that every candidate, except perhaps one, was extremely well qualified. Because we all had to endure at least some degree of public selection the election process brought to the fore people who tended to be more opinionated than people who came to their board seats by a "nominating committee" process in which the criteria is sometimes that of choosing the least objectionable, most mainstream, rather than those who might give discomfort or ask too many questions. There were complaints about the election process in that in some areas there was a lot of nationalistic and corporate activity; but that is to be expected when there are democratic processes - the winner often tends to be he/she who is the best organized. (For online elections in these days of social media the value of corporate money and organization does not seem as strong an advantage as it is in more political governmental elections; I hope that this isn't just a transitory or illusory situation.) Here in the US there were seven of us running for the seat. Some you may have heard of - such as Larry Lessig. All were very good and we had a very vibrant election process including face-to-face debates (at Harvard and Stanford universities and several open online debates.) My campaign platform is still online at: http://www.cavebear.com/archive/icann-board/platform.htm Many aspects of that platform remain important, but I'd like to draw your attention to one that is close to my heart: http://www.cavebear.com/archive/icann-board/platform.htm#full-members I regret one aspect of that platform - I misjudged Louis Touton and did not give him the credit he deserved. I also felt that it was important to give to the public the reasons for what I did when I was on the board, so I kept an on-line diary of my decisions. (In order not to step on the toes of others I tried to record my points of view and not to reflect too much about what other board members were thinking - I figured that that was their obligation to perform, or not.) I received a whole lot of subtle flak from ICANN for publishing that diary, although it now seems that what I did back then that was found so objectionable has been adopted to a degree in ICANN's inclusion of a rationale section in its board meeting minutes. That diary is still online at: http://www.cavebear.com/archive/icann-board/diary/index.htm One of the reasons that I maintained that public diary was that I was (and am) quite aware of the tremendous risks of personal liability that hang over every director of a non-profit corporation. Some of these liabilities seem to be such that they can not be protected against by any kind of insurance policy. So, in addition to it simply being "the right thing to do" I created and maintained that diary so that I, should the occasion arise, have means to demonstrate that my acts were legitimately within the "business judgment rule" that protects corporate directors. --karl-- -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Mon Sep 3 21:47:59 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 13:47:59 +1200 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <50455BE6.7030802@cavebear.com> References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> <50455BE6.7030802@cavebear.com> Message-ID: This is very interesting, thanks Karl. On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 1:39 PM, Karl Auerbach wrote: > On 09/03/2012 03:02 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote: > > > I am that board member. > > > > Karl, which seat number was it that you occupied at the time? > > I don't remember having a number. > > I was the first (and only) publicly elected board member for the > so-called "North American" area. (I use quote marks because I thought > it odd that ICANN's "North America" included Greenland but not Mexico.) > > There were five of these publicly elected seats, one for each of ICANN's > geographic regions. ICANN erased all of these seats so that there would > never again be a public election. > > For the most part I thought that the five publicly elected directors > were quite good - and in the North American election I felt that every > candidate, except perhaps one, was extremely well qualified. Because we > all had to endure at least some degree of public selection the election > process brought to the fore people who tended to be more opinionated > than people who came to their board seats by a "nominating committee" > process in which the criteria is sometimes that of choosing the least > objectionable, most mainstream, rather than those who might give > discomfort or ask too many questions. There were complaints about the > election process in that in some areas there was a lot of nationalistic > and corporate activity; but that is to be expected when there are > democratic processes - the winner often tends to be he/she who is the > best organized. (For online elections in these days of social media the > value of corporate money and organization does not seem as strong an > advantage as it is in more political governmental elections; I hope that > this isn't just a transitory or illusory situation.) > > Here in the US there were seven of us running for the seat. Some you > may have heard of - such as Larry Lessig. All were very good and we had > a very vibrant election process including face-to-face debates (at > Harvard and Stanford universities and several open online debates.) My > campaign platform is still online at: > > http://www.cavebear.com/archive/icann-board/platform.htm > > Many aspects of that platform remain important, but I'd like to draw > your attention to one that is close to my heart: > > http://www.cavebear.com/archive/icann-board/platform.htm#full-members > > I regret one aspect of that platform - I misjudged Louis Touton and did > not give him the credit he deserved. > > I also felt that it was important to give to the public the reasons for > what I did when I was on the board, so I kept an on-line diary of my > decisions. (In order not to step on the toes of others I tried to > record my points of view and not to reflect too much about what other > board members were thinking - I figured that that was their obligation > to perform, or not.) I received a whole lot of subtle flak from ICANN > for publishing that diary, although it now seems that what I did back > then that was found so objectionable has been adopted to a degree in > ICANN's inclusion of a rationale section in its board meeting minutes. > > That diary is still online at: > > http://www.cavebear.com/archive/icann-board/diary/index.htm > > One of the reasons that I maintained that public diary was that I was > (and am) quite aware of the tremendous risks of personal liability that > hang over every director of a non-profit corporation. Some of these > liabilities seem to be such that they can not be protected against by > any kind of insurance policy. So, in addition to it simply being "the > right thing to do" I created and maintained that diary so that I, should > the occasion arise, have means to demonstrate that my acts were > legitimately within the "business judgment rule" that protects corporate > directors. > > --karl-- > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Mon Sep 3 22:19:46 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 07:49:46 +0530 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <50455BE6.7030802@cavebear.com> References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> <50455BE6.7030802@cavebear.com> Message-ID: O_O No more public seats!? Gone the voice of reason is..? There's QUITE some detail in your diary Karl. I understand how this gives the public information - but how does this become insurance? Could you elaborate please? -C On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 7:09 AM, Karl Auerbach wrote: > On 09/03/2012 03:02 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote: > > > I am that board member. > > > > Karl, which seat number was it that you occupied at the time? > > I don't remember having a number. > > I was the first (and only) publicly elected board member for the > so-called "North American" area. (I use quote marks because I thought > it odd that ICANN's "North America" included Greenland but not Mexico.) > > There were five of these publicly elected seats, one for each of ICANN's > geographic regions. ICANN erased all of these seats so that there would > never again be a public election. > > For the most part I thought that the five publicly elected directors > were quite good - and in the North American election I felt that every > candidate, except perhaps one, was extremely well qualified. Because we > all had to endure at least some degree of public selection the election > process brought to the fore people who tended to be more opinionated > than people who came to their board seats by a "nominating committee" > process in which the criteria is sometimes that of choosing the least > objectionable, most mainstream, rather than those who might give > discomfort or ask too many questions. There were complaints about the > election process in that in some areas there was a lot of nationalistic > and corporate activity; but that is to be expected when there are > democratic processes - the winner often tends to be he/she who is the > best organized. (For online elections in these days of social media the > value of corporate money and organization does not seem as strong an > advantage as it is in more political governmental elections; I hope that > this isn't just a transitory or illusory situation.) > > Here in the US there were seven of us running for the seat. Some you > may have heard of - such as Larry Lessig. All were very good and we had > a very vibrant election process including face-to-face debates (at > Harvard and Stanford universities and several open online debates.) My > campaign platform is still online at: > > http://www.cavebear.com/archive/icann-board/platform.htm > > Many aspects of that platform remain important, but I'd like to draw > your attention to one that is close to my heart: > > http://www.cavebear.com/archive/icann-board/platform.htm#full-members > > I regret one aspect of that platform - I misjudged Louis Touton and did > not give him the credit he deserved. > > I also felt that it was important to give to the public the reasons for > what I did when I was on the board, so I kept an on-line diary of my > decisions. (In order not to step on the toes of others I tried to > record my points of view and not to reflect too much about what other > board members were thinking - I figured that that was their obligation > to perform, or not.) I received a whole lot of subtle flak from ICANN > for publishing that diary, although it now seems that what I did back > then that was found so objectionable has been adopted to a degree in > ICANN's inclusion of a rationale section in its board meeting minutes. > > That diary is still online at: > > http://www.cavebear.com/archive/icann-board/diary/index.htm > > One of the reasons that I maintained that public diary was that I was > (and am) quite aware of the tremendous risks of personal liability that > hang over every director of a non-profit corporation. Some of these > liabilities seem to be such that they can not be protected against by > any kind of insurance policy. So, in addition to it simply being "the > right thing to do" I created and maintained that diary so that I, should > the occasion arise, have means to demonstrate that my acts were > legitimately within the "business judgment rule" that protects corporate > directors. > > --karl-- > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Mon Sep 3 22:53:29 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 14:53:29 +1200 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> <50455BE6.7030802@cavebear.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 2:19 PM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar wrote: > O_O > > No more public seats!? Gone the voice of reason is..? > ICANN has evolved since. The Board has seats where Seats Number 1 -8 are voting members appointed by the NomCom. Seats 9-10 are voting members supported by the Address Supporting Organisation, Seats 11-12 are voting members supported by the ccNSO, Seats 13-14 are voting members supported by the gNSO and Seat 15 is the voting member supported by the ALAC. The ICANN President is also an ex officio member of the Board. To answer your question it would be the holder of Seat 15. > > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 00:07:58 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 09:37:58 +0530 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> <50455BE6.7030802@cavebear.com> Message-ID: So that's Sebastian Bachollet currently right? (Ref: http://www.icann.org/en/groups/board) -C On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 8:23 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 2:19 PM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar < > chaitanyabd at gmail.com> wrote: > >> O_O >> >> No more public seats!? Gone the voice of reason is..? >> > ICANN has evolved since. The Board has seats where Seats Number 1 -8 are > voting members appointed by the NomCom. Seats 9-10 are voting members > supported by the Address Supporting Organisation, Seats 11-12 are voting > members supported by the ccNSO, Seats 13-14 are voting members supported by > the gNSO and Seat 15 is the voting member supported by the ALAC. The ICANN > President is also an ex officio member of the Board. > > To answer your question it would be the holder of Seat 15. > >> >> >> -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 00:17:15 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 16:17:15 +1200 Subject: [governance] Google Lifts The Veil On Copyright Takedowns: Reveals Detailed Data On Who Requests Link Removals In-Reply-To: <4FC16395.5070302@gmail.com> References: <4FC16395.5070302@gmail.com> Message-ID: This is very interesting. On Sun, May 27, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Riaz K Tayob wrote: > Nice one from Google... > > > http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120523/17520119054/google-lifts-veil-copyright-takedowns-reveals-detailed-data-who-requests-link-removals.shtml > Google Lifts The Veil On Copyright Takedowns: Reveals Detailed Data On Who > Requests Link Removals from the *data-data-data* dept > > As part of Google's ongoing Transparency Reportefforts, today the company has released a whole new section on copyright > takedowns , > containing a huge amount of information on the many takedown requests > Google receives. > It focuses specifically on the takedowns for *search* links, but I > wouldn't be surprised to see them add other areas later. As you may recall, > we were among those who were victimizedby a bogus takedown, and a key post about SOPA that we had written was > missing from Google search for about a month. > > The new transparency platform lets you dig in and see quite a few details > about exactly *who* is issuing takedowns and what they're removing from > search. It's using data since last July (when Google set up an organized > web-form, so the data is consistent). It may be a bit surprising, but at > the top of the list? *Microsoft*, who has apparently taken down over *2.5 > million URLs* from Google's search results. Most of the the others in the > top 10 aren't too surprising. There's NBC Universal at number two. The RIAA > at number three (representing all its member companies). BPI at number > five. Universal Music at number seven. Sony Music at number eight. Warner > Music doesn't clock in until number 12. > There's also data on which sites are most > frequently *targeted*, which (not surprisingly) lists out a bunch of > torrent search sites and file lockers and such. Don't be surprised to see > some try to claim that this is an accurate list of "rogue sites" that > Google should block entirely. However, if you look carefully at the data, > Google also highlights the *percentage* of pages on those sites for which > they've received takedowns, and the vast majority of them are well below > 1%. In other words, no one has complained about well over 99% of the pages > on these sites. It seems pretty drastic to suggest that these sites are > obviously nothing but evil, when so many of their pages don't seem to > receive any complaints at all. Perhaps more > important, however, is that Google is also revealing the incredible * > deluge* of takedown requests it receives in search, each of which it > tries to check to make sure they're legitimate. As it stands now, Google is > processing *over 250,000 such requests per week* -- which is more than > they got *in the entire year* of 2009. For all of 2011, Google receive > 3.3 million copyright takedowns for search... and here we are in just May > of 2012, and they're already processing over 1.2 million *per month*. And > while we've heard reports from the usual Google haters that Google is slow > to respond to takedowns, it says that its average turnaround time last week > was 11 hours. Think about that for a second. It's reviewing each one of > these takedowns, getting 250,000 per week... and can still process them in > less than 12 hours. That's pretty impressive. > > It's also interesting to hear that these reviews catch some pretty > flagrant bogus takedown requests: > > * At the same time, we try to catch erroneous or abusive removal > requests. For example, we recently rejected two requests from an > organization representing a major entertainment company, asking us to > remove a search result that linked to a major newspaper’s review of a TV > show. The requests mistakenly claimed copyright violations of the show, > even though there was no infringing content. We’ve also seen baseless > copyright removal requests being used for anticompetitive purposes, or to > remove content unfavorable to a particular person or company from our > search results. * > > It's good to see Google catch these, as plenty of other sites would > automatically take such content down, just to avoid any question of > liability. Of course, it doesn't catch them all. Some get through -- as we > ourselves discovered a few months ago. That led us to wonder if this tool > could drill down and find the details about takedowns targeting Techdirt, but > unfortunately at the moment there doesn't seem to be any way to actually * > search* the list. Hopefully that will change soon. *Update:* The search > function is not currently advertised anywhere, but you can access it by > using a URL: * > http://www.google.com/transparencyreport/removals/copyright/domains/ > yourdomain.com/* Of course, this is also a good > reminder -- as they note in the Google blog post -- that if you run a > website, you should absolutely sign up to use Google's Webmaster tools, > which will quickly inform you when one of your URLs are targeted by such a > takedown, allowing you to easily file a counternotice. > > Either way, this is really fascinating data and an interesting platform, > shedding some significant light on just how often copyright holders are > trying to take links out of Google, who's doing it and who they're > targeting. > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: TdAvX.png Type: image/png Size: 121213 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ca8BN.png Type: image/png Size: 127068 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: fGWWb.png Type: image/png Size: 130844 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From apisan at unam.mx Tue Sep 4 01:22:08 2012 From: apisan at unam.mx (Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 05:22:08 +0000 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> <50455BE6.7030802@cavebear.com> , Message-ID: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483DAADB@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> Sala, that is really a stretch of the imagination. Alejandro Pisanty ! !! !!! !!!! NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475 Dr. Alejandro Pisanty UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ________________________________ Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro [salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com] Enviado el: lunes, 03 de septiembre de 2012 21:53 Hasta: Chaitanya Dhareshwar CC: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Karl Auerbach Asunto: Re: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 2:19 PM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar > wrote: O_O No more public seats!? Gone the voice of reason is..? ICANN has evolved since. The Board has seats where Seats Number 1 -8 are voting members appointed by the NomCom. Seats 9-10 are voting members supported by the Address Supporting Organisation, Seats 11-12 are voting members supported by the ccNSO, Seats 13-14 are voting members supported by the gNSO and Seat 15 is the voting member supported by the ALAC. The ICANN President is also an ex officio member of the Board. To answer your question it would be the holder of Seat 15. -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 01:27:11 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 17:27:11 +1200 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483DAADB@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> <50455BE6.7030802@cavebear.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483DAADB@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> Message-ID: Alejandro, you are absolutely correct. Directors of all Boards have a duty to the entity which they hold "Directorship" over, irrespective of their interests. It follows that they are all accountable to the organisation that they hold Directorship and to administer in good faith as per the organising Articles to the best of their ability. Their voices combined are the "voice of reason". However, when I made reference to Seat 15, I meant to say that it was the one appointment from the At Large community that advocates At Large concerns at the Board level. Sala On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 5:22 PM, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch wrote: > Sala, > > that is really a stretch of the imagination. > > Alejandro Pisanty > > > ! !! !!! !!!! > NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO > > > > +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD > > +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO > > SMS +525541444475 > Dr. Alejandro Pisanty > UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico > > Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty > Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, > http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 > Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty > ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > ------------------------------ > *Desde:* governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [ > governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Salanieta T. > Tamanikaiwaimaro [salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com] > *Enviado el:* lunes, 03 de septiembre de 2012 21:53 > *Hasta:* Chaitanya Dhareshwar > *CC:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Karl Auerbach > *Asunto:* Re: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest > > > > On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 2:19 PM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar < > chaitanyabd at gmail.com> wrote: > >> O_O >> >> No more public seats!? Gone the voice of reason is..? >> > ICANN has evolved since. The Board has seats where Seats Number 1 -8 are > voting members appointed by the NomCom. Seats 9-10 are voting members > supported by the Address Supporting Organisation, Seats 11-12 are voting > members supported by the ccNSO, Seats 13-14 are voting members supported by > the gNSO and Seat 15 is the voting member supported by the ALAC. The ICANN > President is also an ex officio member of the Board. > > To answer your question it would be the holder of Seat 15. > >> >> >> -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From apisan at unam.mx Tue Sep 4 01:40:45 2012 From: apisan at unam.mx (Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 05:40:45 +0000 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> <50455BE6.7030802@cavebear.com>, Message-ID: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483DAAEE@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> Chaitanya, all, 1. the At-Large election procedure was deprecated because of its serious flaws, which Karl unfortunately fails to mention. They break the most basic principles of democratic election theory. Elections are meant to split a given electorate among options (propositions, parties, or individual candidates.) The At Large election fails to do that. Instead, a candidate like Karl can bring in more voters than, say, the former President of the University of Maryland - not more votes: more voters - and the election result therefore is prescribed. This is like when in older Mexico or in India a party can ferry voters in trucks. Similarly, in the At-Large election Karl so unfairly romanticizes, arguments like "it is time Germany gets its deserved place in governing the Internet" were used by German-speaking media (not only in Germany but also in Austria) and there you are, the European space is taken. The same thing happened in Latin America. In every country there were 100-300 people interested in ICANN who took part in the election. "It is time Brazil gets its deserved place in governing the Internet" was argued by some entities in Brazil, including the ccTLD manager CGI Brazil (Internet Steering Committee), and action was directed even to non-Brazilians. There you get 2000 votes from Brazil. In most cases not a word was heard again from any of the voters so we can be sure that the results were at best a flare-up. We substituted this supposedly ideal mechanism by a more complicated one but which ensures at least some level of trust in who is participating and some accountability and transparency. It hurts when you ask for accountability and transparency from individuals or organizations which are used to asking for it but not for providing it. We continue to struggle to build the At-Large organizational space but are light-years better than with the old "bring your electorate" (not win over your fraction of the electorate) method. Add to that the NomCom, which usually can look much further out, and the At-Large influence in the NomCom. Count also the enormous contributions to deliver the At-Large views made by Roberto Gaetano and Vittorio Bertola. 2. Karl's lawsuit's victory in court had no more result for Karl than a victory in court. He never found enough skeletons in the closets to avenge the fact that the ICANN proponents defeated the Boston Working Group in the bid for "Newco" as the concept-ICANN was known till the organization was formed. I have a long-standing (albeit at times contentious) friendship with Karl, I like a lot of what he does,have learned a lot from him, appreciate his many interests beyond technology and politics (we had a delightful run over the National Gallery in DC once, for example, and ask him about rebuilding old locomotives), and have always been sad that he wasted the opportunity to teach more and contribute more as a good engineer for trying to outlawyer the lawyers. I still expect to see that Karl Auerbach's contributions make a difference. 3. There is something called esprit de corps and/or duty of loyalty to the organization. It is not in conflict with the duty of independence. There is a slight generralization that some non-USians tend to decide for a balance in favor of performing on both instead of privileging individual independence. Your mileage may vary. Maybe it was time for some in this group to find out that some histories are not as one-sided and clear cut as they may seem. Apologies if I bored you (Sala, Fahd, Riaz, Chaitanya, especially.) Yours, Alejandro Pisanty ! !! !!! !!!! NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475 Dr. Alejandro Pisanty UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ________________________________ Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Chaitanya Dhareshwar [chaitanyabd at gmail.com] Enviado el: lunes, 03 de septiembre de 2012 21:19 Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Karl Auerbach CC: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro Asunto: Re: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest O_O No more public seats!? Gone the voice of reason is..? There's QUITE some detail in your diary Karl. I understand how this gives the public information - but how does this become insurance? Could you elaborate please? -C On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 7:09 AM, Karl Auerbach > wrote: On 09/03/2012 03:02 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote: > I am that board member. > > Karl, which seat number was it that you occupied at the time? I don't remember having a number. I was the first (and only) publicly elected board member for the so-called "North American" area. (I use quote marks because I thought it odd that ICANN's "North America" included Greenland but not Mexico.) There were five of these publicly elected seats, one for each of ICANN's geographic regions. ICANN erased all of these seats so that there would never again be a public election. For the most part I thought that the five publicly elected directors were quite good - and in the North American election I felt that every candidate, except perhaps one, was extremely well qualified. Because we all had to endure at least some degree of public selection the election process brought to the fore people who tended to be more opinionated than people who came to their board seats by a "nominating committee" process in which the criteria is sometimes that of choosing the least objectionable, most mainstream, rather than those who might give discomfort or ask too many questions. There were complaints about the election process in that in some areas there was a lot of nationalistic and corporate activity; but that is to be expected when there are democratic processes - the winner often tends to be he/she who is the best organized. (For online elections in these days of social media the value of corporate money and organization does not seem as strong an advantage as it is in more political governmental elections; I hope that this isn't just a transitory or illusory situation.) Here in the US there were seven of us running for the seat. Some you may have heard of - such as Larry Lessig. All were very good and we had a very vibrant election process including face-to-face debates (at Harvard and Stanford universities and several open online debates.) My campaign platform is still online at: http://www.cavebear.com/archive/icann-board/platform.htm Many aspects of that platform remain important, but I'd like to draw your attention to one that is close to my heart: http://www.cavebear.com/archive/icann-board/platform.htm#full-members I regret one aspect of that platform - I misjudged Louis Touton and did not give him the credit he deserved. I also felt that it was important to give to the public the reasons for what I did when I was on the board, so I kept an on-line diary of my decisions. (In order not to step on the toes of others I tried to record my points of view and not to reflect too much about what other board members were thinking - I figured that that was their obligation to perform, or not.) I received a whole lot of subtle flak from ICANN for publishing that diary, although it now seems that what I did back then that was found so objectionable has been adopted to a degree in ICANN's inclusion of a rationale section in its board meeting minutes. That diary is still online at: http://www.cavebear.com/archive/icann-board/diary/index.htm One of the reasons that I maintained that public diary was that I was (and am) quite aware of the tremendous risks of personal liability that hang over every director of a non-profit corporation. Some of these liabilities seem to be such that they can not be protected against by any kind of insurance policy. So, in addition to it simply being "the right thing to do" I created and maintained that diary so that I, should the occasion arise, have means to demonstrate that my acts were legitimately within the "business judgment rule" that protects corporate directors. --karl-- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 01:55:22 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 07:55:22 +0200 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483DAAEE@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> <50455BE6.7030802@cavebear.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483DAAEE@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> Message-ID: > > (snip) > > Apologies if I bored you (Sala, Fahd, Riaz, Chaitanya, especially. > Not at all Alejandro, interesting points made there. Fahd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 01:56:32 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 11:26:32 +0530 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483DAAEE@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> <50455BE6.7030802@cavebear.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483DAAEE@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> Message-ID: It wasnt boring at all Alex - thanks - yes it is indeed surprising to see there are many angles to the same issue. -Chaitanya PS: I was actually reading through Jovan Kurbalija's excellent "Introduction to IG" - and I feel it's a reminder of how different people perceive IG differently. More so the people that publicize it (but dont know what it is - I'll say 'media' in general here). On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch < apisan at unam.mx> wrote: > Chaitanya, all, > > 1. the At-Large election procedure was deprecated because of its serious > flaws, which Karl unfortunately fails to mention. They break the most basic > principles of democratic election theory. > > Elections are meant to split a given electorate among options > (propositions, parties, or individual candidates.) The At Large election > fails to do that. Instead, a candidate like Karl can bring in more voters > than, say, the former President of the University of Maryland - not more > votes: more voters - and the election result therefore is prescribed. > > This is like when in older Mexico or in India a party can ferry voters > in trucks. > > Similarly, in the At-Large election Karl so unfairly romanticizes, > arguments like "it is time Germany gets its deserved place in governing the > Internet" were used by German-speaking media (not only in Germany but also > in Austria) and there you are, the European space is taken. > > The same thing happened in Latin America. In every country there were > 100-300 people interested in ICANN who took part in the election. "It is > time Brazil gets its deserved place in governing the Internet" was argued > by some entities in Brazil, including the ccTLD manager CGI Brazil > (Internet Steering Committee), and action was directed even to > non-Brazilians. There you get 2000 votes from Brazil. > > In most cases not a word was heard again from any of the voters so we > can be sure that the results were at best a flare-up. > > We substituted this supposedly ideal mechanism by a more complicated one > but which ensures at least some level of trust in who is participating and > some accountability and transparency. It hurts when you ask for > accountability and transparency from individuals or organizations which are > used to asking for it but not for providing it. > > We continue to struggle to build the At-Large organizational space but > are light-years better than with the old "bring your electorate" (not win > over your fraction of the electorate) method. Add to that the NomCom, which > usually can look much further out, and the At-Large influence in the > NomCom. Count also the enormous contributions to deliver the At-Large views > made by Roberto Gaetano and Vittorio Bertola. > > 2. Karl's lawsuit's victory in court had no more result for Karl than a > victory in court. He never found enough skeletons in the closets to avenge > the fact that the ICANN proponents defeated the Boston Working Group in the > bid for "Newco" as the concept-ICANN was known till the organization was > formed. I have a long-standing (albeit at times contentious) friendship > with Karl, I like a lot of what he does,have learned a lot from him, > appreciate his many interests beyond technology and politics (we had a > delightful run over the National Gallery in DC once, for example, and ask > him about rebuilding old locomotives), and have always been sad that he > wasted the opportunity to teach more and contribute more as a good engineer > for trying to outlawyer the lawyers. I still expect to see that Karl > Auerbach's contributions make a difference. > > 3. There is something called esprit de corps and/or duty of loyalty to > the organization. It is not in conflict with the duty of independence. > There is a slight generralization that some non-USians tend to decide for a > balance in favor of performing on both instead of privileging individual > independence. Your mileage may vary. > > Maybe it was time for some in this group to find out that some histories > are not as one-sided and clear cut as they may seem. Apologies if I bored > you (Sala, Fahd, Riaz, Chaitanya, especially.) > > Yours, > > Alejandro Pisanty > > ! !! !!! !!!! > NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO > > > > +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD > > +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO > > SMS +525541444475 > Dr. Alejandro Pisanty > UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico > > Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty > Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, > http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 > Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty > ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > ------------------------------ > *Desde:* governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [ > governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Chaitanya Dhareshwar [ > chaitanyabd at gmail.com] > *Enviado el:* lunes, 03 de septiembre de 2012 21:19 > *Hasta:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Karl Auerbach > *CC:* Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro > > *Asunto:* Re: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest > > O_O > > No more public seats!? Gone the voice of reason is..? > > There's QUITE some detail in your diary Karl. I understand how this gives > the public information - but how does this become insurance? Could you > elaborate please? > > -C > > On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 7:09 AM, Karl Auerbach wrote: > >> On 09/03/2012 03:02 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote: >> >> > I am that board member. >> > >> > Karl, which seat number was it that you occupied at the time? >> >> I don't remember having a number. >> >> I was the first (and only) publicly elected board member for the >> so-called "North American" area. (I use quote marks because I thought >> it odd that ICANN's "North America" included Greenland but not Mexico.) >> >> There were five of these publicly elected seats, one for each of ICANN's >> geographic regions. ICANN erased all of these seats so that there would >> never again be a public election. >> >> For the most part I thought that the five publicly elected directors >> were quite good - and in the North American election I felt that every >> candidate, except perhaps one, was extremely well qualified. Because we >> all had to endure at least some degree of public selection the election >> process brought to the fore people who tended to be more opinionated >> than people who came to their board seats by a "nominating committee" >> process in which the criteria is sometimes that of choosing the least >> objectionable, most mainstream, rather than those who might give >> discomfort or ask too many questions. There were complaints about the >> election process in that in some areas there was a lot of nationalistic >> and corporate activity; but that is to be expected when there are >> democratic processes - the winner often tends to be he/she who is the >> best organized. (For online elections in these days of social media the >> value of corporate money and organization does not seem as strong an >> advantage as it is in more political governmental elections; I hope that >> this isn't just a transitory or illusory situation.) >> >> Here in the US there were seven of us running for the seat. Some you >> may have heard of - such as Larry Lessig. All were very good and we had >> a very vibrant election process including face-to-face debates (at >> Harvard and Stanford universities and several open online debates.) My >> campaign platform is still online at: >> >> http://www.cavebear.com/archive/icann-board/platform.htm >> >> Many aspects of that platform remain important, but I'd like to draw >> your attention to one that is close to my heart: >> >> http://www.cavebear.com/archive/icann-board/platform.htm#full-members >> >> I regret one aspect of that platform - I misjudged Louis Touton and did >> not give him the credit he deserved. >> >> I also felt that it was important to give to the public the reasons for >> what I did when I was on the board, so I kept an on-line diary of my >> decisions. (In order not to step on the toes of others I tried to >> record my points of view and not to reflect too much about what other >> board members were thinking - I figured that that was their obligation >> to perform, or not.) I received a whole lot of subtle flak from ICANN >> for publishing that diary, although it now seems that what I did back >> then that was found so objectionable has been adopted to a degree in >> ICANN's inclusion of a rationale section in its board meeting minutes. >> >> That diary is still online at: >> >> http://www.cavebear.com/archive/icann-board/diary/index.htm >> >> One of the reasons that I maintained that public diary was that I was >> (and am) quite aware of the tremendous risks of personal liability that >> hang over every director of a non-profit corporation. Some of these >> liabilities seem to be such that they can not be protected against by >> any kind of insurance policy. So, in addition to it simply being "the >> right thing to do" I created and maintained that diary so that I, should >> the occasion arise, have means to demonstrate that my acts were >> legitimately within the "business judgment rule" that protects corporate >> directors. >> >> --karl-- >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 02:16:50 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 18:16:50 +1200 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> <50455BE6.7030802@cavebear.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483DAAEE@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 5:55 PM, Fahd A. Batayneh wrote: > (snip) >> >> Apologies if I bored you (Sala, Fahd, Riaz, Chaitanya, especially. >> > > Not at all Alejandro, interesting points made there. > Interesting indeed. > > Fahd > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ajp at glocom.ac.jp Tue Sep 4 02:39:42 2012 From: ajp at glocom.ac.jp (Adam Peake) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 15:39:42 +0900 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> <50455BE6.7030802@cavebear.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483DAAEE@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> Message-ID: Anyone interested in some history of the at large election might look here: A one page summary and reports: http://web.archive.org/web/20030621172016/http://www.naisproject.org/report/final/execsummaryA4.pdf http://web.archive.org/web/20030621172016/http://www.naisproject.org/report/final/naisreportUSLetter.pdf At the time, I thought the problems were fixable and ICANN should have tried a second round, a lot of the problems would not have been hard to fix. Now I'm much less sure, I think an annual election would be a massive distraction for the organization and volunteers who already have too little time. But should not be discounted. A new study as a new ATRT round starts might be useful. Adam -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From jstyre at jstyre.com Tue Sep 4 02:46:19 2012 From: jstyre at jstyre.com (James S. Tyre) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 23:46:19 -0700 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483DAAEE@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> <50455BE6.7030802@cavebear.com>, <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483DAAEE@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> Message-ID: <008b01cd8a68$fe131df0$fa3959d0$@jstyre.com> See below -- James S. Tyre Law Offices of James S. Tyre 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) jstyre at jstyre.com Policy Fellow, Electronic Frontier Foundation https://www.eff.org From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 10:41 PM To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Chaitanya Dhareshwar; Karl Auerbach Cc: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro Subject: RE: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest Chaitanya, all, 1. the At-Large election procedure was deprecated because of its serious flaws, which Karl unfortunately fails to mention. They break the most basic principles of democratic election theory. Elections are meant to split a given electorate among options (propositions, parties, or individual candidates.) The At Large election fails to do that. Instead, a candidate like Karl can bring in more voters than, say, the former President of the University of Maryland - not more votes: more voters - and the election result therefore is prescribed. [] Alejandro, this makes no sense. Please explain the difference between more votes and more voters. In any event, who, other than the voters, is to say whether Karl, the former President of the University of Maryland, Larry Lessig, Barbara Simons or others was the best candidate? This is like when in older Mexico or in India a party can ferry voters in trucks. Similarly, in the At-Large election Karl so unfairly romanticizes, arguments like "it is time Germany gets its deserved place in governing the Internet" were used by German-speaking media (not only in Germany but also in Austria) and there you are, the European space is taken. [] Pretty much all is fair in political campaigns. What was inherently wrong with that? Or are you just upset that the winner of that seat, Andy M-M, was almost as unlikely to toe the ICANN party line as Karl? The same thing happened in Latin America. In every country there were 100-300 people interested in ICANN who took part in the election. "It is time Brazil gets its deserved place in governing the Internet" was argued by some entities in Brazil, including the ccTLD manager CGI Brazil (Internet Steering Committee), and action was directed even to non-Brazilians. There you get 2000 votes from Brazil. In most cases not a word was heard again from any of the voters so we can be sure that the results were at best a flare-up. [] In the 2008 US Presidential election, I voted for [Obama or McCain, take your pick]. I have done nothing involving presidential politics (other than to vote in the primary this year) since. At best, then, according to your logic, I’m a flare-up. That’s a fairly serious misapprehension of politics and voting in a democracy (or Republic, as the case may be). We substituted this supposedly ideal mechanism by a more complicated one but which ensures at least some level of trust in who is participating and some accountability and transparency. It hurts when you ask for accountability and transparency from individuals or organizations which are used to asking for it but not for providing it. [] ICANN had, and has, less trust in the electorate, than do virtually all elected governments. Good to know. We continue to struggle to build the At-Large organizational space but are light-years better than with the old "bring your electorate" (not win over your fraction of the electorate) method. Add to that the NomCom, which usually can look much further out, and the At-Large influence in the NomCom. Count also the enormous contributions to deliver the At-Large views made by Roberto Gaetano and Vittorio Bertola. 2. Karl's lawsuit's victory in court had no more result for Karl than a victory in court. He never found enough skeletons in the closets to avenge the fact that the ICANN proponents defeated the Boston Working Group in the bid for "Newco" as the concept-ICANN was known till the organization was formed. I have a long-standing (albeit at times contentious) friendship with Karl, I like a lot of what he does,have learned a lot from him, appreciate his many interests beyond technology and politics (we had a delightful run over the National Gallery in DC once, for example, and ask him about rebuilding old locomotives), and have always been sad that he wasted the opportunity to teach more and contribute more as a good engineer for trying to outlawyer the lawyers. I still expect to see that Karl Auerbach's contributions make a difference. [] Please give some actual evidence that Karl had any objective other than to assert the right that ICANN unlawfully denied him, that he had to go to court to assert because ICANN was so intransigent, and that he won. 3. There is something called esprit de corps and/or duty of loyalty to the organization. It is not in conflict with the duty of independence. There is a slight generralization that some non-USians tend to decide for a balance in favor of performing on both instead of privileging individual independence. Your mileage may vary. Maybe it was time for some in this group to find out that some histories are not as one-sided and clear cut as they may seem. Apologies if I bored you (Sala, Fahd, Riaz, Chaitanya, especially.) Yours, Alejandro Pisanty ! !! !!! !!!! NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475 Dr. Alejandro Pisanty UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . _____ Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Chaitanya Dhareshwar [chaitanyabd at gmail.com] Enviado el: lunes, 03 de septiembre de 2012 21:19 Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Karl Auerbach CC: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro Asunto: Re: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest O_O No more public seats!? Gone the voice of reason is..? There's QUITE some detail in your diary Karl. I understand how this gives the public information - but how does this become insurance? Could you elaborate please? -C On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 7:09 AM, Karl Auerbach wrote: On 09/03/2012 03:02 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote: > I am that board member. > > Karl, which seat number was it that you occupied at the time? I don't remember having a number. I was the first (and only) publicly elected board member for the so-called "North American" area. (I use quote marks because I thought it odd that ICANN's "North America" included Greenland but not Mexico.) There were five of these publicly elected seats, one for each of ICANN's geographic regions. ICANN erased all of these seats so that there would never again be a public election. For the most part I thought that the five publicly elected directors were quite good - and in the North American election I felt that every candidate, except perhaps one, was extremely well qualified. Because we all had to endure at least some degree of public selection the election process brought to the fore people who tended to be more opinionated than people who came to their board seats by a "nominating committee" process in which the criteria is sometimes that of choosing the least objectionable, most mainstream, rather than those who might give discomfort or ask too many questions. There were complaints about the election process in that in some areas there was a lot of nationalistic and corporate activity; but that is to be expected when there are democratic processes - the winner often tends to be he/she who is the best organized. (For online elections in these days of social media the value of corporate money and organization does not seem as strong an advantage as it is in more political governmental elections; I hope that this isn't just a transitory or illusory situation.) Here in the US there were seven of us running for the seat. Some you may have heard of - such as Larry Lessig. All were very good and we had a very vibrant election process including face-to-face debates (at Harvard and Stanford universities and several open online debates.) My campaign platform is still online at: http://www.cavebear.com/archive/icann-board/platform.htm Many aspects of that platform remain important, but I'd like to draw your attention to one that is close to my heart: http://www.cavebear.com/archive/icann-board/platform.htm#full-members I regret one aspect of that platform - I misjudged Louis Touton and did not give him the credit he deserved. I also felt that it was important to give to the public the reasons for what I did when I was on the board, so I kept an on-line diary of my decisions. (In order not to step on the toes of others I tried to record my points of view and not to reflect too much about what other board members were thinking - I figured that that was their obligation to perform, or not.) I received a whole lot of subtle flak from ICANN for publishing that diary, although it now seems that what I did back then that was found so objectionable has been adopted to a degree in ICANN's inclusion of a rationale section in its board meeting minutes. That diary is still online at: http://www.cavebear.com/archive/icann-board/diary/index.htm One of the reasons that I maintained that public diary was that I was (and am) quite aware of the tremendous risks of personal liability that hang over every director of a non-profit corporation. Some of these liabilities seem to be such that they can not be protected against by any kind of insurance policy. So, in addition to it simply being "the right thing to do" I created and maintained that diary so that I, should the occasion arise, have means to demonstrate that my acts were legitimately within the "business judgment rule" that protects corporate directors. --karl-- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 03:23:32 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 10:23:32 +0300 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <20120902181555.16F4E21AB6@inbound-queue-3.mail.thdo.gradwell.net> <50446C1E.7090402@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5045AC74.3020804@gmail.com> For present purposes _I _have defined status quo-ism as the ruling mantra of the minimal accomodationists for ICANN fads. And yes changes will continue, but that is a qualitative question - description is inadequate. As has been stated, ICANN is even more "radical" that some/many on this list. So perspectives differ. On 2012/09/04 02:38 AM, McTim wrote: > There is no such position as status quo-ism. There has been > tremendous evolution in the Internet ecosystem over the last decade, > and all signs are that this will continue. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From karl at cavebear.com Tue Sep 4 03:25:37 2012 From: karl at cavebear.com (Karl Auerbach) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 00:25:37 -0700 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> <50455BE6.7030802@cavebear.com> Message-ID: <5045ACF1.3050500@cavebear.com> On 09/03/2012 07:19 PM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar wrote: > No more public seats!? Gone the voice of reason is..? > > There's QUITE some detail in your diary Karl. I understand how this > gives the public information - but how does this become insurance? Could > you elaborate please? That is an extremely complex question and it is affected by laws that vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. I can only begin to touch the surface in an email. Let me begin by reflecting that ICANN obtains it legal existence from the laws of the State of California under a provision pertaining to non-profit/public-benefit corporations. (There are many kinds of corporations and many kinds of non-profits, so the public-benefit part is important.) California isn't particularly unique in its laws - it, like much of the world, is a blend of Civil Law and Common Law concepts diluted by a lot of modern thought and pragmatic experience. As such one will tend to find that what is true in California will often have counterparts in the laws of other places. As a result I tend to be mildly amused by those who argue that ICANN should be moved elsewhere - my amusement comes from my thought that "the corporations laws of all those other places are probably more similar to those of California than they are different". The USA is also a federal system in which power is divided between the national level and the state level. As such ICANN also has status under the national tax law as a "501(c)(3)" which means that it gets an exemption from taxation because of charitable of scientific purposes. It is important to distinguish between those two things. With regard to the US national, 501(c)(3) status there is a thing called "intermediate sanctions" which occurs when a body of that status pays an "excess benefit" to a closely related party. Generally that means paying above fair market value to someone who is a director, officer, founder, or in some other way exercises a strong level of control. That sanction is cast as a 200% tax and insurance policies tend not to insure against the risk of taxation. This law was intended to be draconian. Since those intermediate sanctions can fall directly onto the personal assets of corporate directors there is a possibility that ICANN's insurance for directors may not provide protection. (The situation gets even more complicated when directors are compensated - one can drown in the details of this stuff. Suffice it to say that prudence suggests that one should try to avoid getting anywhere near entangled by this stuff. The point about the diary is more at the level of state law. Typical corporate law imposes very heavy duties on corporate directors - the word is "fiduciary duty". It is a very, very heavy burden and contains a large amount of risk to a director's personal assets. It is also an extremely complicated duty. For example, as a California public benefit corporation ICANN's directors are obligated to consider the impact upon the public well being when evaluating whether a proposed action is in the best interest of the corporation or not. Many directors do not understand this and consider only the best interest of the public benefit corporation without recognizing the need to incorporate the effect upon the public. Because of the difficult and potentially draconian nature of fiduciary responsibilities there is an escape valve built into most corporation laws - which is the idea that directors are allowed some flexibility as long as they act in certain ways. One of those ways is that a corporate director obtains a degree of protection if he/she can demonstrate that he is making an informed, reasonable decision in the context of a business purpose. The rule allows a director to make a mistake and yet avoid liability for that mistake - It's a rather sensible idea, otherwise no one would risk taking on the role of a director. So my diary was intended to demonstrate that when I was making a choice that I had tried to become informed, that I tried to evaluate the alternatives, and that the decision was being made in the context of the purpose of the business. That point about being "informed" is more tricky than one might think ... being on ICANN's board requires an enormous amount of work just to keep up, and much more to understand, and even more to really comprehend the competing issues. Any person who considers the role should recognize that it is more than a full-time job. Becoming informed is hard - that is why when I was on the board I'd ask many questions, often to the point of annoying those who wanted to move ahead. But I discovered that some disputes coming before ICANN were really not disputes at all, but rather were people who were talking past one another using different words. Asking questions tends to reveal when their are real differences or merely much more easily correct mis-understandings. There are plenty of real and hard issues in internet governance, so it is nice to be able to find the easy ones by asking some questions. And the diary was also meant to be a two-way street - by exposing my thought processes others could see where I had gone awry and could try to change my point of view. I found that very valuable - there is nothing like disagreement to cause two people to explain themselves to one another. ;-) This is an area in which internet governance is weak - We Americans tend to feel comfortable with a rough-and-tumble dialog - an argument - as a means to illuminate and comprehend issues. Other cultures work through less confrontational means. Both methods are correct, neither method is wrong. I found, however, that there is not enough accommodation by those who use one of these methods for those who use the other. As an American I found myself often upbraided (often rather subtly) for being very direct in my questions and words. And as an American I often found it difficult to comprehend how I was to learn enough about issues if I did not ask direct questions and used, instead, indirect means. --karl-- -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 03:27:49 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 12:57:49 +0530 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <008b01cd8a68$fe131df0$fa3959d0$@jstyre.com> References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> <50455BE6.7030802@cavebear.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483DAAEE@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> <008b01cd8a68$fe131df0$fa3959d0$@jstyre.com> Message-ID: James, I think what Alex wanted to illustrate is that it's easy enough to 'buy' votes - maybe by making a commitment, or people are 'sold' because they see the candidate's profile and are happy to have a leap of faith believing their choice of candidate will make a difference. The difference between voters and votes - in India at least - is usually the number of people that get pulled in by the campaign versus the number of people that made a researched choice to vote for a given candidate. The flare up effect would happen because of this - say I advertise that I intend to bring in massive projects for farmers - maybe free electricity - the farmers are likely to vote for me; however these are the 'flares' that may not have any real interest in me, my capability or my future in that seat. The last part about evidence, etc - see Alex is not saying that he didnt deserve the win. He's just saying that the result of that didnt change much - which is in line with what Karl said "ICANN did not change much after my law suite prevailed." -Chaitanya On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 12:16 PM, James S. Tyre wrote: > See below**** > > ** ** > > --**** > > James S. Tyre**** > > Law Offices of James S. Tyre**** > > 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512**** > > Culver City, CA 90230-4969**** > > 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax)**** > > jstyre at jstyre.com**** > > Policy Fellow, Electronic Frontier Foundation**** > > https://www.eff.org**** > > ** ** > > *From:* governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto: > governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] *On Behalf Of *Dr. Alejandro > Pisanty Baruch > *Sent:* Monday, September 03, 2012 10:41 PM > *To:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Chaitanya Dhareshwar; Karl Auerbach > *Cc:* Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro > *Subject:* RE: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest**** > > ** ** > > Chaitanya, all, **** > > ** ** > > 1. the At-Large election procedure was deprecated because of its serious > flaws, which Karl unfortunately fails to mention. They break the most basic > principles of democratic election theory.**** > > ** ** > > Elections are meant to split a given electorate among options > (propositions, parties, or individual candidates.) The At Large election > fails to do that. Instead, a candidate like Karl can bring in more voters > than, say, the former President of the University of Maryland - not more > votes: more voters - and the election result therefore is prescribed.**** > > [] **** > > Alejandro, this makes no sense. Please explain the difference between > more votes and more voters. In any event, who, other than the voters, is > to say whether Karl, the former President of the University of Maryland, > Larry Lessig, Barbara Simons or others was the best candidate?**** > > ** ** > > This is like when in older Mexico or in India a party can ferry voters in > trucks. **** > > ** ** > > Similarly, in the At-Large election Karl so unfairly romanticizes, > arguments like "it is time Germany gets its deserved place in governing the > Internet" were used by German-speaking media (not only in Germany but also > in Austria) and there you are, the European space is taken.**** > > [] **** > > Pretty much all is fair in political campaigns. What was inherently wrong > with that? Or are you just upset that the winner of that seat, Andy M-M, > was almost as unlikely to toe the ICANN party line as Karl?**** > > ** ** > > The same thing happened in Latin America. In every country there were > 100-300 people interested in ICANN who took part in the election. "It is > time Brazil gets its deserved place in governing the Internet" was argued > by some entities in Brazil, including the ccTLD manager CGI Brazil > (Internet Steering Committee), and action was directed even to > non-Brazilians. There you get 2000 votes from Brazil. **** > > ** ** > > In most cases not a word was heard again from any of the voters so we can > be sure that the results were at best a flare-up. **** > > [] **** > > In the 2008 US Presidential election, I voted for [Obama or McCain, take > your pick]. I have done nothing involving presidential politics (other > than to vote in the primary this year) since. At best, then, according to > your logic, I’m a flare-up.**** > > ** ** > > That’s a fairly serious misapprehension of politics and voting in a > democracy (or Republic, as the case may be).**** > > ** ** > > We substituted this supposedly ideal mechanism by a more complicated one > but which ensures at least some level of trust in who is participating and > some accountability and transparency. It hurts when you ask for > accountability and transparency from individuals or organizations which are > used to asking for it but not for providing it.**** > > [] **** > > ICANN had, and has, less trust in the electorate, than do virtually all > elected governments. Good to know.**** > > ** ** > > We continue to struggle to build the At-Large organizational space but are > light-years better than with the old "bring your electorate" (not win over > your fraction of the electorate) method. Add to that the NomCom, which > usually can look much further out, and the At-Large influence in the > NomCom. Count also the enormous contributions to deliver the At-Large views > made by Roberto Gaetano and Vittorio Bertola. **** > > ** ** > > 2. Karl's lawsuit's victory in court had no more result for Karl than a > victory in court. He never found enough skeletons in the closets to avenge > the fact that the ICANN proponents defeated the Boston Working Group in the > bid for "Newco" as the concept-ICANN was known till the organization was > formed. I have a long-standing (albeit at times contentious) friendship > with Karl, I like a lot of what he does,have learned a lot from him, > appreciate his many interests beyond technology and politics (we had a > delightful run over the National Gallery in DC once, for example, and ask > him about rebuilding old locomotives), and have always been sad that he > wasted the opportunity to teach more and contribute more as a good engineer > for trying to outlawyer the lawyers. I still expect to see that Karl > Auerbach's contributions make a difference.**** > > [] **** > > Please give some actual evidence that Karl had any objective other than to > assert the right that ICANN unlawfully denied him, that he had to go to > court to assert because ICANN was so intransigent, and that he won.**** > > ** ** > > 3. There is something called esprit de corps and/or duty of loyalty to the > organization. It is not in conflict with the duty of independence. There is > a slight generralization that some non-USians tend to decide for a balance > in favor of performing on both instead of privileging individual > independence. Your mileage may vary.**** > > ** ** > > Maybe it was time for some in this group to find out that some histories > are not as one-sided and clear cut as they may seem. Apologies if I bored > you (Sala, Fahd, Riaz, Chaitanya, especially.)**** > > ** ** > > Yours,**** > > ** ** > > Alejandro Pisanty**** > > **** > > ! !! !!! !!!!**** > > NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO**** > > **** > > +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD **** > > +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO **** > > SMS +525541444475 > Dr. Alejandro Pisanty > UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico > > Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty > Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, > http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 > Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty > ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . **** > ------------------------------ > > *Desde:* governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [ > governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Chaitanya Dhareshwar [ > chaitanyabd at gmail.com] > *Enviado el:* lunes, 03 de septiembre de 2012 21:19 > *Hasta:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Karl Auerbach > *CC:* Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro > *Asunto:* Re: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest**** > > O_O**** > > **** > > No more public seats!? Gone the voice of reason is..?**** > > **** > > There's QUITE some detail in your diary Karl. I understand how this gives > the public information - but how does this become insurance? Could you > elaborate please?**** > > **** > > -C**** > > On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 7:09 AM, Karl Auerbach wrote:** > ** > > On 09/03/2012 03:02 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote: > > > I am that board member. > > > > Karl, which seat number was it that you occupied at the time?**** > > I don't remember having a number. > > I was the first (and only) publicly elected board member for the > so-called "North American" area. (I use quote marks because I thought > it odd that ICANN's "North America" included Greenland but not Mexico.) > > There were five of these publicly elected seats, one for each of ICANN's > geographic regions. ICANN erased all of these seats so that there would > never again be a public election. > > For the most part I thought that the five publicly elected directors > were quite good - and in the North American election I felt that every > candidate, except perhaps one, was extremely well qualified. Because we > all had to endure at least some degree of public selection the election > process brought to the fore people who tended to be more opinionated > than people who came to their board seats by a "nominating committee" > process in which the criteria is sometimes that of choosing the least > objectionable, most mainstream, rather than those who might give > discomfort or ask too many questions. There were complaints about the > election process in that in some areas there was a lot of nationalistic > and corporate activity; but that is to be expected when there are > democratic processes - the winner often tends to be he/she who is the > best organized. (For online elections in these days of social media the > value of corporate money and organization does not seem as strong an > advantage as it is in more political governmental elections; I hope that > this isn't just a transitory or illusory situation.) > > Here in the US there were seven of us running for the seat. Some you > may have heard of - such as Larry Lessig. All were very good and we had > a very vibrant election process including face-to-face debates (at > Harvard and Stanford universities and several open online debates.) My > campaign platform is still online at: > > http://www.cavebear.com/archive/icann-board/platform.htm > > Many aspects of that platform remain important, but I'd like to draw > your attention to one that is close to my heart: > > http://www.cavebear.com/archive/icann-board/platform.htm#full-members > > I regret one aspect of that platform - I misjudged Louis Touton and did > not give him the credit he deserved. > > I also felt that it was important to give to the public the reasons for > what I did when I was on the board, so I kept an on-line diary of my > decisions. (In order not to step on the toes of others I tried to > record my points of view and not to reflect too much about what other > board members were thinking - I figured that that was their obligation > to perform, or not.) I received a whole lot of subtle flak from ICANN > for publishing that diary, although it now seems that what I did back > then that was found so objectionable has been adopted to a degree in > ICANN's inclusion of a rationale section in its board meeting minutes. > > That diary is still online at: > > http://www.cavebear.com/archive/icann-board/diary/index.htm > > One of the reasons that I maintained that public diary was that I was > (and am) quite aware of the tremendous risks of personal liability that > hang over every director of a non-profit corporation. Some of these > liabilities seem to be such that they can not be protected against by > any kind of insurance policy. So, in addition to it simply being "the > right thing to do" I created and maintained that diary so that I, should > the occasion arise, have means to demonstrate that my acts were > legitimately within the "business judgment rule" that protects corporate > directors. > > --karl-- > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t**** > > ** ** > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From apisan at unam.mx Tue Sep 4 03:28:44 2012 From: apisan at unam.mx (Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 07:28:44 +0000 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <008b01cd8a68$fe131df0$fa3959d0$@jstyre.com> References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> <50455BE6.7030802@cavebear.com>, <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483DAAEE@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local>,<008b01cd8a68$fe131df0$fa3959d0$@jstyre.com> Message-ID: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483DAD3E@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> James, there was no pre-defined electorate in the At-Large election. That blows up all fair constructs of democratic elections. Andy was a fair contributor to the ICANN Board. He succeeded in creating awareness of a different generation and its views, of security approaches not everybody was acquainted with, and, most importantly, in pushing a privacy/data-protection agenda that got recognized and eventually developed. Yours, Alejandro Pisanty ! !! !!! !!!! NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475 Dr. Alejandro Pisanty UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ________________________________ Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de James S. Tyre [jstyre at jstyre.com] Enviado el: martes, 04 de septiembre de 2012 01:46 Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch; 'Chaitanya Dhareshwar'; 'Karl Auerbach' CC: 'Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro' Asunto: RE: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest See below -- James S. Tyre Law Offices of James S. Tyre 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) jstyre at jstyre.com Policy Fellow, Electronic Frontier Foundation https://www.eff.org From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 10:41 PM To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Chaitanya Dhareshwar; Karl Auerbach Cc: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro Subject: RE: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest Chaitanya, all, 1. the At-Large election procedure was deprecated because of its serious flaws, which Karl unfortunately fails to mention. They break the most basic principles of democratic election theory. Elections are meant to split a given electorate among options (propositions, parties, or individual candidates.) The At Large election fails to do that. Instead, a candidate like Karl can bring in more voters than, say, the former President of the University of Maryland - not more votes: more voters - and the election result therefore is prescribed. [] Alejandro, this makes no sense. Please explain the difference between more votes and more voters. In any event, who, other than the voters, is to say whether Karl, the former President of the University of Maryland, Larry Lessig, Barbara Simons or others was the best candidate? This is like when in older Mexico or in India a party can ferry voters in trucks. Similarly, in the At-Large election Karl so unfairly romanticizes, arguments like "it is time Germany gets its deserved place in governing the Internet" were used by German-speaking media (not only in Germany but also in Austria) and there you are, the European space is taken. [] Pretty much all is fair in political campaigns. What was inherently wrong with that? Or are you just upset that the winner of that seat, Andy M-M, was almost as unlikely to toe the ICANN party line as Karl? The same thing happened in Latin America. In every country there were 100-300 people interested in ICANN who took part in the election. "It is time Brazil gets its deserved place in governing the Internet" was argued by some entities in Brazil, including the ccTLD manager CGI Brazil (Internet Steering Committee), and action was directed even to non-Brazilians. There you get 2000 votes from Brazil. In most cases not a word was heard again from any of the voters so we can be sure that the results were at best a flare-up. [] In the 2008 US Presidential election, I voted for [Obama or McCain, take your pick]. I have done nothing involving presidential politics (other than to vote in the primary this year) since. At best, then, according to your logic, I’m a flare-up. That’s a fairly serious misapprehension of politics and voting in a democracy (or Republic, as the case may be). We substituted this supposedly ideal mechanism by a more complicated one but which ensures at least some level of trust in who is participating and some accountability and transparency. It hurts when you ask for accountability and transparency from individuals or organizations which are used to asking for it but not for providing it. [] ICANN had, and has, less trust in the electorate, than do virtually all elected governments. Good to know. We continue to struggle to build the At-Large organizational space but are light-years better than with the old "bring your electorate" (not win over your fraction of the electorate) method. Add to that the NomCom, which usually can look much further out, and the At-Large influence in the NomCom. Count also the enormous contributions to deliver the At-Large views made by Roberto Gaetano and Vittorio Bertola. 2. Karl's lawsuit's victory in court had no more result for Karl than a victory in court. He never found enough skeletons in the closets to avenge the fact that the ICANN proponents defeated the Boston Working Group in the bid for "Newco" as the concept-ICANN was known till the organization was formed. I have a long-standing (albeit at times contentious) friendship with Karl, I like a lot of what he does,have learned a lot from him, appreciate his many interests beyond technology and politics (we had a delightful run over the National Gallery in DC once, for example, and ask him about rebuilding old locomotives), and have always been sad that he wasted the opportunity to teach more and contribute more as a good engineer for trying to outlawyer the lawyers. I still expect to see that Karl Auerbach's contributions make a difference. [] Please give some actual evidence that Karl had any objective other than to assert the right that ICANN unlawfully denied him, that he had to go to court to assert because ICANN was so intransigent, and that he won. 3. There is something called esprit de corps and/or duty of loyalty to the organization. It is not in conflict with the duty of independence. There is a slight generralization that some non-USians tend to decide for a balance in favor of performing on both instead of privileging individual independence. Your mileage may vary. Maybe it was time for some in this group to find out that some histories are not as one-sided and clear cut as they may seem. Apologies if I bored you (Sala, Fahd, Riaz, Chaitanya, especially.) Yours, Alejandro Pisanty ! !! !!! !!!! NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475 Dr. Alejandro Pisanty UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ________________________________ Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Chaitanya Dhareshwar [chaitanyabd at gmail.com] Enviado el: lunes, 03 de septiembre de 2012 21:19 Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Karl Auerbach CC: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro Asunto: Re: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest O_O No more public seats!? Gone the voice of reason is..? There's QUITE some detail in your diary Karl. I understand how this gives the public information - but how does this become insurance? Could you elaborate please? -C On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 7:09 AM, Karl Auerbach > wrote: On 09/03/2012 03:02 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote: > I am that board member. > > Karl, which seat number was it that you occupied at the time? I don't remember having a number. I was the first (and only) publicly elected board member for the so-called "North American" area. (I use quote marks because I thought it odd that ICANN's "North America" included Greenland but not Mexico.) There were five of these publicly elected seats, one for each of ICANN's geographic regions. ICANN erased all of these seats so that there would never again be a public election. For the most part I thought that the five publicly elected directors were quite good - and in the North American election I felt that every candidate, except perhaps one, was extremely well qualified. Because we all had to endure at least some degree of public selection the election process brought to the fore people who tended to be more opinionated than people who came to their board seats by a "nominating committee" process in which the criteria is sometimes that of choosing the least objectionable, most mainstream, rather than those who might give discomfort or ask too many questions. There were complaints about the election process in that in some areas there was a lot of nationalistic and corporate activity; but that is to be expected when there are democratic processes - the winner often tends to be he/she who is the best organized. (For online elections in these days of social media the value of corporate money and organization does not seem as strong an advantage as it is in more political governmental elections; I hope that this isn't just a transitory or illusory situation.) Here in the US there were seven of us running for the seat. Some you may have heard of - such as Larry Lessig. All were very good and we had a very vibrant election process including face-to-face debates (at Harvard and Stanford universities and several open online debates.) My campaign platform is still online at: http://www.cavebear.com/archive/icann-board/platform.htm Many aspects of that platform remain important, but I'd like to draw your attention to one that is close to my heart: http://www.cavebear.com/archive/icann-board/platform.htm#full-members I regret one aspect of that platform - I misjudged Louis Touton and did not give him the credit he deserved. I also felt that it was important to give to the public the reasons for what I did when I was on the board, so I kept an on-line diary of my decisions. (In order not to step on the toes of others I tried to record my points of view and not to reflect too much about what other board members were thinking - I figured that that was their obligation to perform, or not.) I received a whole lot of subtle flak from ICANN for publishing that diary, although it now seems that what I did back then that was found so objectionable has been adopted to a degree in ICANN's inclusion of a rationale section in its board meeting minutes. That diary is still online at: http://www.cavebear.com/archive/icann-board/diary/index.htm One of the reasons that I maintained that public diary was that I was (and am) quite aware of the tremendous risks of personal liability that hang over every director of a non-profit corporation. Some of these liabilities seem to be such that they can not be protected against by any kind of insurance policy. So, in addition to it simply being "the right thing to do" I created and maintained that diary so that I, should the occasion arise, have means to demonstrate that my acts were legitimately within the "business judgment rule" that protects corporate directors. --karl-- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From apisan at unam.mx Tue Sep 4 03:36:22 2012 From: apisan at unam.mx (Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 07:36:22 +0000 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> <50455BE6.7030802@cavebear.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483DAAEE@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> <008b01cd8a68$fe131df0$fa3959d0$@jstyre.com>, Message-ID: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483DAD86@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> Chaitanya, a precision point: no, I don't speak about "buying votes" because I don't think any of the candidates who won the At-Large elections offered their voters material benefits in exchange for the vote. But I think you did capture the ferrying in of masses of voters who would not be in the active voters list otherwise. For the record, I found other candidates in the election preferrable to some who won but have no complaints about the elected ones. We were reasonably lucky that the gaming of the election didn't go any further. The process was just not robust enough to be fixable, as Adam thought at the time. I had been very closed to how elections are set up and run to be more sanguine. With the experience accumulated since then I'm even more skeptical about the possibility of this type of open-ended processes until a number of conditions change. Yours, Alejandro Pisanty ! !! !!! !!!! NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475 Dr. Alejandro Pisanty UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ________________________________ Desde: Chaitanya Dhareshwar [chaitanyabd at gmail.com] Enviado el: martes, 04 de septiembre de 2012 02:27 Hasta: James S. Tyre CC: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch; Karl Auerbach; Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro Asunto: Re: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest James, I think what Alex wanted to illustrate is that it's easy enough to 'buy' votes - maybe by making a commitment, or people are 'sold' because they see the candidate's profile and are happy to have a leap of faith believing their choice of candidate will make a difference. The difference between voters and votes - in India at least - is usually the number of people that get pulled in by the campaign versus the number of people that made a researched choice to vote for a given candidate. The flare up effect would happen because of this - say I advertise that I intend to bring in massive projects for farmers - maybe free electricity - the farmers are likely to vote for me; however these are the 'flares' that may not have any real interest in me, my capability or my future in that seat. The last part about evidence, etc - see Alex is not saying that he didnt deserve the win. He's just saying that the result of that didnt change much - which is in line with what Karl said "ICANN did not change much after my law suite prevailed." -Chaitanya On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 12:16 PM, James S. Tyre > wrote: See below -- James S. Tyre Law Offices of James S. Tyre 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) jstyre at jstyre.com Policy Fellow, Electronic Frontier Foundation https://www.eff.org From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 10:41 PM To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Chaitanya Dhareshwar; Karl Auerbach Cc: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro Subject: RE: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest Chaitanya, all, 1. the At-Large election procedure was deprecated because of its serious flaws, which Karl unfortunately fails to mention. They break the most basic principles of democratic election theory. Elections are meant to split a given electorate among options (propositions, parties, or individual candidates.) The At Large election fails to do that. Instead, a candidate like Karl can bring in more voters than, say, the former President of the University of Maryland - not more votes: more voters - and the election result therefore is prescribed. [] Alejandro, this makes no sense. Please explain the difference between more votes and more voters. In any event, who, other than the voters, is to say whether Karl, the former President of the University of Maryland, Larry Lessig, Barbara Simons or others was the best candidate? This is like when in older Mexico or in India a party can ferry voters in trucks. Similarly, in the At-Large election Karl so unfairly romanticizes, arguments like "it is time Germany gets its deserved place in governing the Internet" were used by German-speaking media (not only in Germany but also in Austria) and there you are, the European space is taken. [] Pretty much all is fair in political campaigns. What was inherently wrong with that? Or are you just upset that the winner of that seat, Andy M-M, was almost as unlikely to toe the ICANN party line as Karl? The same thing happened in Latin America. In every country there were 100-300 people interested in ICANN who took part in the election. "It is time Brazil gets its deserved place in governing the Internet" was argued by some entities in Brazil, including the ccTLD manager CGI Brazil (Internet Steering Committee), and action was directed even to non-Brazilians. There you get 2000 votes from Brazil. In most cases not a word was heard again from any of the voters so we can be sure that the results were at best a flare-up. [] In the 2008 US Presidential election, I voted for [Obama or McCain, take your pick]. I have done nothing involving presidential politics (other than to vote in the primary this year) since. At best, then, according to your logic, I’m a flare-up. That’s a fairly serious misapprehension of politics and voting in a democracy (or Republic, as the case may be). We substituted this supposedly ideal mechanism by a more complicated one but which ensures at least some level of trust in who is participating and some accountability and transparency. It hurts when you ask for accountability and transparency from individuals or organizations which are used to asking for it but not for providing it. [] ICANN had, and has, less trust in the electorate, than do virtually all elected governments. Good to know. We continue to struggle to build the At-Large organizational space but are light-years better than with the old "bring your electorate" (not win over your fraction of the electorate) method. Add to that the NomCom, which usually can look much further out, and the At-Large influence in the NomCom. Count also the enormous contributions to deliver the At-Large views made by Roberto Gaetano and Vittorio Bertola. 2. Karl's lawsuit's victory in court had no more result for Karl than a victory in court. He never found enough skeletons in the closets to avenge the fact that the ICANN proponents defeated the Boston Working Group in the bid for "Newco" as the concept-ICANN was known till the organization was formed. I have a long-standing (albeit at times contentious) friendship with Karl, I like a lot of what he does,have learned a lot from him, appreciate his many interests beyond technology and politics (we had a delightful run over the National Gallery in DC once, for example, and ask him about rebuilding old locomotives), and have always been sad that he wasted the opportunity to teach more and contribute more as a good engineer for trying to outlawyer the lawyers. I still expect to see that Karl Auerbach's contributions make a difference. [] Please give some actual evidence that Karl had any objective other than to assert the right that ICANN unlawfully denied him, that he had to go to court to assert because ICANN was so intransigent, and that he won. 3. There is something called esprit de corps and/or duty of loyalty to the organization. It is not in conflict with the duty of independence. There is a slight generralization that some non-USians tend to decide for a balance in favor of performing on both instead of privileging individual independence. Your mileage may vary. Maybe it was time for some in this group to find out that some histories are not as one-sided and clear cut as they may seem. Apologies if I bored you (Sala, Fahd, Riaz, Chaitanya, especially.) Yours, Alejandro Pisanty ! !! !!! !!!! NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475 Dr. Alejandro Pisanty UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ________________________________ Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Chaitanya Dhareshwar [chaitanyabd at gmail.com] Enviado el: lunes, 03 de septiembre de 2012 21:19 Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Karl Auerbach CC: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro Asunto: Re: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest O_O No more public seats!? Gone the voice of reason is..? There's QUITE some detail in your diary Karl. I understand how this gives the public information - but how does this become insurance? Could you elaborate please? -C On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 7:09 AM, Karl Auerbach > wrote: On 09/03/2012 03:02 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote: > I am that board member. > > Karl, which seat number was it that you occupied at the time? I don't remember having a number. I was the first (and only) publicly elected board member for the so-called "North American" area. (I use quote marks because I thought it odd that ICANN's "North America" included Greenland but not Mexico.) There were five of these publicly elected seats, one for each of ICANN's geographic regions. ICANN erased all of these seats so that there would never again be a public election. For the most part I thought that the five publicly elected directors were quite good - and in the North American election I felt that every candidate, except perhaps one, was extremely well qualified. Because we all had to endure at least some degree of public selection the election process brought to the fore people who tended to be more opinionated than people who came to their board seats by a "nominating committee" process in which the criteria is sometimes that of choosing the least objectionable, most mainstream, rather than those who might give discomfort or ask too many questions. There were complaints about the election process in that in some areas there was a lot of nationalistic and corporate activity; but that is to be expected when there are democratic processes - the winner often tends to be he/she who is the best organized. (For online elections in these days of social media the value of corporate money and organization does not seem as strong an advantage as it is in more political governmental elections; I hope that this isn't just a transitory or illusory situation.) Here in the US there were seven of us running for the seat. Some you may have heard of - such as Larry Lessig. All were very good and we had a very vibrant election process including face-to-face debates (at Harvard and Stanford universities and several open online debates.) My campaign platform is still online at: http://www.cavebear.com/archive/icann-board/platform.htm Many aspects of that platform remain important, but I'd like to draw your attention to one that is close to my heart: http://www.cavebear.com/archive/icann-board/platform.htm#full-members I regret one aspect of that platform - I misjudged Louis Touton and did not give him the credit he deserved. I also felt that it was important to give to the public the reasons for what I did when I was on the board, so I kept an on-line diary of my decisions. (In order not to step on the toes of others I tried to record my points of view and not to reflect too much about what other board members were thinking - I figured that that was their obligation to perform, or not.) I received a whole lot of subtle flak from ICANN for publishing that diary, although it now seems that what I did back then that was found so objectionable has been adopted to a degree in ICANN's inclusion of a rationale section in its board meeting minutes. That diary is still online at: http://www.cavebear.com/archive/icann-board/diary/index.htm One of the reasons that I maintained that public diary was that I was (and am) quite aware of the tremendous risks of personal liability that hang over every director of a non-profit corporation. Some of these liabilities seem to be such that they can not be protected against by any kind of insurance policy. So, in addition to it simply being "the right thing to do" I created and maintained that diary so that I, should the occasion arise, have means to demonstrate that my acts were legitimately within the "business judgment rule" that protects corporate directors. --karl-- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 03:39:46 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 10:39:46 +0300 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <20120902181555.16F4E21AB6@inbound-queue-3.mail.thdo.gradwell.net> <50446C1E.7090402@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5045B042.1060608@gmail.com> and space for ethics - as Karl's post shows, not least regarding finances? In general, the US polity may accept cutting of welfare while big corporates rip their taxes off (from the Iraq war through to big corporates getting small business grants) but this may not be acceptable others of us. The system IS open enough to allow some dissent, but there are systemic imbalances... this is different from many countries as critics are not necessarily crowded out totally (and here credit is due to the rich countries - exceptionalism - but this does not mean that critics are not ostracised... as someone put it, why does the toast always fall butter side down? and as Hegel put it, to paraphrase, in the contest of interests - what space for virtue...? And how is this position any different from 'might is right'? It would serve as a good reminder for those who are 'disinterested' that even Mandela was a terrorist according to the US until about five years after he became president... On 2012/09/04 02:41 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote: > I agree with McTim, there are only divergent and convergent interests...;) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From karl at cavebear.com Tue Sep 4 03:40:33 2012 From: karl at cavebear.com (Karl Auerbach) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 00:40:33 -0700 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> <50455BE6.7030802@cavebear.com> Message-ID: <5045B071.9070803@cavebear.com> On 09/03/2012 07:53 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote: > To answer your question it would be the holder of Seat 15. By-the-way, to ring my own bell more than a bit excessively - I was a member of the 2008 Board Review Committee that pushed hard for that seat to be created - our report may be viewed at: > http://www.icann.org/en/groups/reviews/alac/final-report-alac-review-28jan09-en.pdf (I agreed with the report, but I went a bit further and wrote Appendix 3 starting on page 32.) I am a strong advocate of the idea that bodies of governance should have strong, even dominant, elements of public control. But we all must recognize that there is a legitimate fear held by many of a notion that I will ungraciously call "the mob" - we have all seen how in electronic discussions that a few can derail the progress of the many. In any body of internet governance we need to have a seed of public participation - I prefer a large seed others prefer a smaller one - from which can grow a respectful and disciplined body and process for debate and decision making. --karl-- -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From rudi.vansnick at isoc.be Tue Sep 4 03:48:03 2012 From: rudi.vansnick at isoc.be (Rudi Vansnick) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 09:48:03 +0200 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483DAAEE@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> <50455BE6.7030802@cavebear.com>, <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483DAAEE@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> Message-ID: <7DE45377-56E6-4741-BE1F-65FD4DF467B0@isoc.be> Really a very good analytical view and summary ... basis for further discussion i would say. Rudi Vansnick Op 4-sep-2012, om 07:40 heeft Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch het volgende geschreven: > Chaitanya, all, > > 1. the At-Large election procedure was deprecated because of its serious flaws, which Karl unfortunately fails to mention. They break the most basic principles of democratic election theory. > > Elections are meant to split a given electorate among options (propositions, parties, or individual candidates.) The At Large election fails to do that. Instead, a candidate like Karl can bring in more voters than, say, the former President of the University of Maryland - not more votes: more voters - and the election result therefore is prescribed. > > This is like when in older Mexico or in India a party can ferry voters in trucks. > > Similarly, in the At-Large election Karl so unfairly romanticizes, arguments like "it is time Germany gets its deserved place in governing the Internet" were used by German-speaking media (not only in Germany but also in Austria) and there you are, the European space is taken. > > The same thing happened in Latin America. In every country there were 100-300 people interested in ICANN who took part in the election. "It is time Brazil gets its deserved place in governing the Internet" was argued by some entities in Brazil, including the ccTLD manager CGI Brazil (Internet Steering Committee), and action was directed even to non-Brazilians. There you get 2000 votes from Brazil. > > In most cases not a word was heard again from any of the voters so we can be sure that the results were at best a flare-up. > > We substituted this supposedly ideal mechanism by a more complicated one but which ensures at least some level of trust in who is participating and some accountability and transparency. It hurts when you ask for accountability and transparency from individuals or organizations which are used to asking for it but not for providing it. > > We continue to struggle to build the At-Large organizational space but are light-years better than with the old "bring your electorate" (not win over your fraction of the electorate) method. Add to that the NomCom, which usually can look much further out, and the At-Large influence in the NomCom. Count also the enormous contributions to deliver the At-Large views made by Roberto Gaetano and Vittorio Bertola. > > 2. Karl's lawsuit's victory in court had no more result for Karl than a victory in court. He never found enough skeletons in the closets to avenge the fact that the ICANN proponents defeated the Boston Working Group in the bid for "Newco" as the concept-ICANN was known till the organization was formed. I have a long-standing (albeit at times contentious) friendship with Karl, I like a lot of what he does,have learned a lot from him, appreciate his many interests beyond technology and politics (we had a delightful run over the National Gallery in DC once, for example, and ask him about rebuilding old locomotives), and have always been sad that he wasted the opportunity to teach more and contribute more as a good engineer for trying to outlawyer the lawyers. I still expect to see that Karl Auerbach's contributions make a difference. > > 3. There is something called esprit de corps and/or duty of loyalty to the organization. It is not in conflict with the duty of independence. There is a slight generralization that some non-USians tend to decide for a balance in favor of performing on both instead of privileging individual independence. Your mileage may vary. > > Maybe it was time for some in this group to find out that some histories are not as one-sided and clear cut as they may seem. Apologies if I bored you (Sala, Fahd, Riaz, Chaitanya, especially.) > > Yours, > > Alejandro Pisanty > > ! !! !!! !!!! > NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO > > +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD > > +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO > > SMS +525541444475 > Dr. Alejandro Pisanty > UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico > > Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty > Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 > Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty > ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Chaitanya Dhareshwar [chaitanyabd at gmail.com] > Enviado el: lunes, 03 de septiembre de 2012 21:19 > Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Karl Auerbach > CC: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro > Asunto: Re: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest > > O_O > > No more public seats!? Gone the voice of reason is..? > > There's QUITE some detail in your diary Karl. I understand how this gives the public information - but how does this become insurance? Could you elaborate please? > > -C > > On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 7:09 AM, Karl Auerbach wrote: > On 09/03/2012 03:02 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote: > > > I am that board member. > > > > Karl, which seat number was it that you occupied at the time? > > I don't remember having a number. > > I was the first (and only) publicly elected board member for the > so-called "North American" area. (I use quote marks because I thought > it odd that ICANN's "North America" included Greenland but not Mexico.) > > There were five of these publicly elected seats, one for each of ICANN's > geographic regions. ICANN erased all of these seats so that there would > never again be a public election. > > For the most part I thought that the five publicly elected directors > were quite good - and in the North American election I felt that every > candidate, except perhaps one, was extremely well qualified. Because we > all had to endure at least some degree of public selection the election > process brought to the fore people who tended to be more opinionated > than people who came to their board seats by a "nominating committee" > process in which the criteria is sometimes that of choosing the least > objectionable, most mainstream, rather than those who might give > discomfort or ask too many questions. There were complaints about the > election process in that in some areas there was a lot of nationalistic > and corporate activity; but that is to be expected when there are > democratic processes - the winner often tends to be he/she who is the > best organized. (For online elections in these days of social media the > value of corporate money and organization does not seem as strong an > advantage as it is in more political governmental elections; I hope that > this isn't just a transitory or illusory situation.) > > Here in the US there were seven of us running for the seat. Some you > may have heard of - such as Larry Lessig. All were very good and we had > a very vibrant election process including face-to-face debates (at > Harvard and Stanford universities and several open online debates.) My > campaign platform is still online at: > > http://www.cavebear.com/archive/icann-board/platform.htm > > Many aspects of that platform remain important, but I'd like to draw > your attention to one that is close to my heart: > > http://www.cavebear.com/archive/icann-board/platform.htm#full-members > > I regret one aspect of that platform - I misjudged Louis Touton and did > not give him the credit he deserved. > > I also felt that it was important to give to the public the reasons for > what I did when I was on the board, so I kept an on-line diary of my > decisions. (In order not to step on the toes of others I tried to > record my points of view and not to reflect too much about what other > board members were thinking - I figured that that was their obligation > to perform, or not.) I received a whole lot of subtle flak from ICANN > for publishing that diary, although it now seems that what I did back > then that was found so objectionable has been adopted to a degree in > ICANN's inclusion of a rationale section in its board meeting minutes. > > That diary is still online at: > > http://www.cavebear.com/archive/icann-board/diary/index.htm > > One of the reasons that I maintained that public diary was that I was > (and am) quite aware of the tremendous risks of personal liability that > hang over every director of a non-profit corporation. Some of these > liabilities seem to be such that they can not be protected against by > any kind of insurance policy. So, in addition to it simply being "the > right thing to do" I created and maintained that diary so that I, should > the occasion arise, have means to demonstrate that my acts were > legitimately within the "business judgment rule" that protects corporate > directors. > > --karl-- > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From karl at cavebear.com Tue Sep 4 04:05:04 2012 From: karl at cavebear.com (Karl Auerbach) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 01:05:04 -0700 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483DAAEE@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> <50455BE6.7030802@cavebear.com>, <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483DAAEE@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> Message-ID: <5045B630.4080806@cavebear.com> By-the-way, our original BWG - Boston Working Group - materials are online at: http://cavebear.com/bwg/ The BWG has been sort of a mysterious body, and it is made more mysterious by the fact that over the years several members have served on ICANN's board of directors (including chair). After our submissions to NTIA in 1998 we evolved into closed debating group. One of the things that glues us together is that we have gone beyond electronics - nearly all of us have worked together face to face. In the world of the internet it is easy to forget that once one has broken bread with another person it becomes hard to dismiss or be disrespectful to that person. --karl-- -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 03:44:42 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 10:44:42 +0300 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483DAAEE@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> <50455BE6.7030802@cavebear.com>, <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483DAAEE@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> Message-ID: <5045B16A.6020008@gmail.com> This is not boring, as was said previously we (or I) am happy to engage.. so long as our democratic/ethical choices are valued based on reason (i.e. justifiable even if not acceptable). Conrad made some wonderful interventions... and so do you... so let not robustness limit the discussions, there is virtue in openness and candour... On 2012/09/04 08:40 AM, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch wrote: > > Maybe it was time for some in this group to find out that some > histories are not as one-sided and clear cut as they may seem. > Apologies if I bored you (Sala, Fahd, Riaz, Chaitanya, especially.) -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From karl at cavebear.com Tue Sep 4 05:10:41 2012 From: karl at cavebear.com (Karl Auerbach) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 02:10:41 -0700 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <7DE45377-56E6-4741-BE1F-65FD4DF467B0@isoc.be> References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> <50455BE6.7030802@cavebear.com>, <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483DAAEE@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> <7DE45377-56E6-4741-BE1F-65FD4DF467B0@isoc.be> Message-ID: <5045C591.9010904@cavebear.com> On 09/04/2012 12:48 AM, Rudi Vansnick wrote: > Really a very good analytical view and summary ... basis for further > discussion i would say. Well to initiate that discussion let me throw out this thought: Internet governance is about who gets to exercise power (and power's right-hand, money). Throughout history control of power and selection of those to exercise that power have been the number one and number two issues for those who study systems of governance. In a sense these are questions of how one contains a battle and divides the spoils of that battle. Some try to manage and confine the battle. Others try to use the dynamics of that battle to create systems in which "ambition counters ambition". Such, for example, is the mechanism underlying the US Constitution with its "separation of powers". (Many other modern nations structure their systems of governance along these principles.) In our discussion on this thread it seems to me that Alejandro has been the advocate of the managed point of view and I the advocate of the "ambition counter ambition" point of view. To my mind trying to control or manage the fight over who gets to be in charge of power is to swim upriver against a strong current of human nature. And the power to manage can create an almost irresistible urge in the managers to shape the outcome. Under the way that ICANN initially tried to manage the election - by requiring that all candidates be placed on the ballot by a nominating committee - I would not even have been able to be a candidate. How did I win the ICANN election? By being the best candidate offering the best platform and building a strong constituency of backers. I formed a party with Barbara Simons and Larry Lessig - it did not really matter to us which one of us won. Our positions differed slightly but interlocked so that our voices would aggregate and our differences would give three dimensional depth to the issues. We talked to the electorate - I traveled, at my own expense, across the North American continent several times. And I was an active participant in debates, on discussion boards, on radio shows, in and interviews. Another candidate (who would have made an excellent board member) campaigned at a very local level. (There is an amusing story how he ordered a campaign banner that, in the style of the movie Spinal Tap, was almost made 12x the requested size due to confusion over the units of measurement.) We were far from the most wealthy of the contestants - one candidate was the head of a sizable intellectual protection body with large financial resources. He lost. But I knew that in the next round of elections (which were never held) that he would be far better organized and might win. During my term I maintained strong contact with the electorate - Yes, I was actively building a base for the next election. That wasn't a craven or improper act - it meant a better ICANN better in touch with the community of internet users. All in all I felt that the election of year 2000 for the North American seat was a fine exercise in public democracy that deserved another round in 2002. That election did have some problems - mostly ICANN's very flawed voter registration system that disenfranchised many people who tried to vote. Those could have been easily and relatively inexpensively repaired for the election cycle two years hence. I can't agree that the Asian experience with nationalist and corporate efforts to get-out-the-vote were reason to abandon elections within ICANN. I don't agree with the implicit assertion that residents of a country or workers for a corporation are automatons who are unable to think for themselves. And if some regions had low voter turnout - to me that is an opportunity to do better next time not a reason to declare failure and close the shop. In a good election candidates clearly state positions. Clearly my positions about ICANN's role and structure made some incumbents uncomfortable. --karl-- -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From nkurunziza1999 at yahoo.fr Tue Sep 4 07:02:18 2012 From: nkurunziza1999 at yahoo.fr (Jean Paul NKURUNZIZA) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 12:02:18 +0100 (BST) Subject: [governance] Visa letters for Baku are being sent. I have received one In-Reply-To: <1346698076.15752.YahooMailNeo@web130106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <1346698076.15752.YahooMailNeo@web130106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1346756538.49042.YahooMailNeo@web171404.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi Nnenna,  That's a good news. I have sent a request of the visa letter on 30 August 2012, but I have not got it yet. When did you send your request ? Regards   NKURUNZIZA Jean Paul TRAINER IN COMPUTING AND INTERNET POLICY ISOC BURUNDI : VICE PRESIDENT Réseau des Télécentres Communautaires du Burundi : Président www.rtcb.bi Burundi Youth Training Centre : Secrétaire Général www.bytc.bi Facebook :  http://www.facebook.com/jeanpaul.nkurunziza Tel : +257 79 981459 ________________________________ De : Nnenna À : IG Caucus Cc : Baudouin Schombe Envoyé le : Lundi 3 septembre 2012 20h47 Objet : [governance] Visa letters for Baku are being sent. I have received one Hi people,   I reveived:   "Hello, pls. find attached the respective invitation letter. Looking forward to see you in Baku. -- Best Regards, Murad Maksudov IGF Host Country Secretariat, Visa Department +994 70 2100900"   FYI   Nnenna  Nwakanma |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG  |  Consultants Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471 |Mob. 07416820 Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065| http://www.nnenna.org nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 | nnennaorg.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list:     governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit:     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see:     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:     http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From nkurunziza1999 at yahoo.fr Tue Sep 4 07:14:21 2012 From: nkurunziza1999 at yahoo.fr (Jean Paul NKURUNZIZA) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 12:14:21 +0100 (BST) Subject: [governance] Visa letters for Baku are being sent. I have received one In-Reply-To: <1346756538.49042.YahooMailNeo@web171404.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> References: <1346698076.15752.YahooMailNeo@web130106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1346756538.49042.YahooMailNeo@web171404.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1346757261.69821.YahooMailNeo@web171402.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi all, I am really sorry for the confusion : I have just found that the visa letter was sent to me. Sorry for previous message. Regards   NKURUNZIZA Jean Paul TRAINER IN COMPUTING AND INTERNET POLICY ISOC BURUNDI : VICE PRESIDENT Réseau des Télécentres Communautaires du Burundi : Président www.rtcb.bi Burundi Youth Training Centre : Secrétaire Général www.bytc.bi Facebook :  http://www.facebook.com/jeanpaul.nkurunziza Tel : +257 79 981459 ________________________________ De : Jean Paul NKURUNZIZA À : "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" ; Nnenna Cc : Baudouin Schombe Envoyé le : Mardi 4 septembre 2012 13h02 Objet : Re: [governance] Visa letters for Baku are being sent. I have received one Hi Nnenna,  That's a good news. I have sent a request of the visa letter on 30 August 2012, but I have not got it yet. When did you send your request ? Regards   NKURUNZIZA Jean Paul TRAINER IN COMPUTING AND INTERNET POLICY ISOC BURUNDI : VICE PRESIDENT Réseau des Télécentres Communautaires du Burundi : Président www.rtcb.bi Burundi Youth Training Centre : Secrétaire Général www.bytc.bi Facebook :  http://www.facebook.com/jeanpaul.nkurunziza Tel : +257 79 981459 ________________________________ De : Nnenna À : IG Caucus Cc : Baudouin Schombe Envoyé le : Lundi 3 septembre 2012 20h47 Objet : [governance] Visa letters for Baku are being sent. I have received one Hi people,   I reveived:   "Hello, pls. find attached the respective invitation letter. Looking forward to see you in Baku. -- Best Regards, Murad Maksudov IGF Host Country Secretariat, Visa Department +994 70 2100900"   FYI   Nnenna  Nwakanma |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG  |  Consultants Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471 |Mob. 07416820 Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065| http://www.nnenna.org nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 | nnennaorg.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list:     governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit:     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see:     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:     http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From nb at bollow.ch Tue Sep 4 08:07:25 2012 From: nb at bollow.ch (Norbert Bollow) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 14:07:25 +0200 Subject: [governance] Caribbean Internet Governance Forum [Lessons the world can learn] #Enhanced Cooperation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120904140725.334619f0@quill.bollow.ch> On Wed, 29 Aug 2012 15:10:56 +1200 "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" wrote: > Some of you may be aware that the Caribbean will be hosting their > Regional IGF soon. I think the world has alot to learn from the > approach that the Caribbean is taking, remote participation is > available but you need to register via: http://www.ctu.int/cigf8 > It will run from the 29th -30th August, 2012. > > For those interested in seeing "enhanced cooperation" in action, > please download a copy of the Caribbean Internet Governance > Framework. You will see very clear the values based engagement that > is apparent in the collaborative manner in which they are engaging. Is there a direct link to the document (that does't require registering first?) Greetings, Norbert -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 09:33:33 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 01:33:33 +1200 Subject: [governance] Caribbean Internet Governance Forum [Lessons the world can learn] #Enhanced Cooperation In-Reply-To: <20120904140725.334619f0@quill.bollow.ch> References: <20120904140725.334619f0@quill.bollow.ch> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 12:07 AM, Norbert Bollow wrote: > On Wed, 29 Aug 2012 15:10:56 +1200 > "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" > wrote: > > > Some of you may be aware that the Caribbean will be hosting their > > Regional IGF soon. I think the world has alot to learn from the > > approach that the Caribbean is taking, remote participation is > > available but you need to register via: http://www.ctu.int/cigf8 > > It will run from the 29th -30th August, 2012. > > > > For those interested in seeing "enhanced cooperation" in action, > > please download a copy of the Caribbean Internet Governance > > Framework. You will see very clear the values based engagement that > > is apparent in the collaborative manner in which they are engaging. > > Is there a direct link to the document (that does't require registering > first?) The document is accessible without registering. If you are sill unable to access it I can forward you a soft copy of the version I have before the CIGF. The document has since been revised at the CIGF. > > Greetings, > Norbert > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From mueller at syr.edu Tue Sep 4 12:19:00 2012 From: mueller at syr.edu (Milton L Mueller) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 16:19:00 +0000 Subject: [governance] ICANN's legal status Message-ID: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220CD2E@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Dominique Lacroix Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2012 10:13 AM To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org Subject: Re: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs Le 01/09/12 15:50, Chaitanya Dhareshwar a écrit : Indeed ICANN *IS* doing a splendid job in terms of a clean simple non-bureaucratic process for the public. Yes, of course, dear Chaitanya. But, as in every activity, the world needs to know what sort of organization it is. A US private one, submitted to commercial laws? An international quasi-public organization, immune vis-a-vis commercial laws? An American agency, working for the American nation interests through the world? MM: It is a California "nonprofit public benefit" corporation" (or at least, it is pretending to be one, until such time as it really pisses someone off and they challenge its nonprofit status). Which means quite a bit to a California lawyer, and is meaningless to Indians, Chinese, Europeans and many, many others. For those who read English, the California public benefit corporation law is not that difficult to decipher; however, fully understanding the case law and interpretations around it would take some work. However, as I have emphasized again and again, California Corp. law does not dictate what policies ICANN makes, it only structures the organizational form of the corporation that runs the policy development process. As legal frameworks go, it could be better or it could be worse. As such, those who insist that it would be more legitimate and accountable under international law are almost certainly mistaken, given that governments and international law would give the corporation all kinds of immunities that would actually insulate it from certain forms of legal accountability and public input. Not to mention the severe geopolitics that would be involved in getting 150 governments to agree on anything. So to answer your specific questions: It is a US private corporation, incorporated under nonprofit law in California, not commercial law. I would say that it is ALSO an international organization, in that it is expressly charged with a global coordination role, but it is NOT immune from antitrust law -- it is illegal to collude to constrain trade whether or not you are a 'commercial' corporation. E.g., a nonprofit association of soybean producers could be subject to antitrust law. ICANN itself is not working for American national interests throughout the world, but because of the remaining tethers to the Commerce Department, it is subject to more pressure from the US government than other governments. But it is important to understand that ICANN itself would prefer not to be tied to the USG via the IANA contract. ICANN's staff and CEO have made this clear in numerous filings and comments. Further, ICANN embodies a policy preference that is supported by the US - and many other governments - to keep the Internet relatively insulated from national governments. Hope that answers your questions. Disclaimer: the foregoing words were meant to be an accurate description of ICANN's legal status. Nothing in the foregoing should be construed as a defense of US hegemony, support for the Vietnam war, support for any ICANN decision or board member, Big Pharma, the RIAA, obesity, Chuck Norris or Clint Eastwood. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From mueller at syr.edu Tue Sep 4 12:21:01 2012 From: mueller at syr.edu (Milton L Mueller) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 16:21:01 +0000 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220CD63@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> Surely we all know that ICANN has been in this hornet's nest since at least 2004, when .xxx was first mooted. From: pouzin at gmail.com [mailto:pouzin at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Louis Pouzin (well) Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2012 1:40 PM To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/news/internet/Domain-names-spark-dispute-among-religious-groups/articleshow/16130800.cms Today, more than 6600 complaints for 1931 gTLD applications https://gtldcomment.icann.org/comments-feedback/applicationcomment/viewcomments Let's put up a $185K award for the last one ! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From sana.pryhod at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 12:45:48 2012 From: sana.pryhod at gmail.com (Oksana Prykhodko) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 19:45:48 +0300 Subject: [governance] global events in non-democratic countries Message-ID: Dear all, I would like to add new food to our old discussion about propriety to hold international events in non-democratic countries. Kiev just now is hosting World Newspaper Congress, with participation of the most influential editors and journalists from the whole world. Yesterday Jacob Mathew, President of the World Association of Newspapers and News Publishers (WAN-IFRA), gave excellent analysis of media situation in Ukraine, underlined main threats to media freedom. Then Ukrainian president Victor Yanulovich gave his interpretation of the same situation, stating, that there are no problems for the freedom of speech in Ukraine. During his speech 12 Ukrainian journalists and media activists (I was among them) stood up with critical banners. And were brutally attacked by Yanukovich securities. It was excellent illustration to his words, and received world-wide coverage (except of Ukrainian TV channels). Today 14 the most influential editors met Yanukovich and demanded to investigate this incident and not to persecute protesters. I really highly appreciate support of WAN-IFRA and all lessons, that it gave to Ukraine. And I hope that IGF in Baku will be also of great use to Azeris. Best regards, Oksana http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2012/09/03/world/europe/03reuters-ukraine-journalists-protest.html?_r=2&ref=politics http://www.wan-ifra.org/articles/2012/09/06/press-freedom-an-own-goal-for-ukraine -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From jstyre at jstyre.com Tue Sep 4 12:49:13 2012 From: jstyre at jstyre.com (James S. Tyre) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 09:49:13 -0700 Subject: [governance] Securing Digital Democracy Message-ID: <00cc01cd8abd$375ce7e0$a616b7a0$@jstyre.com> This is a free online course by University of Michigan CS Prof Alex Halderman, an expert in the field. Officially it started yesterday, but one can register and start when one wants. I could be wrong (I often am), but I thought it might interest some here. https://www.coursera.org/course/digitaldemocracy Securing Digital Democracy J. Alex Halderman In this course, you'll learn what every citizen should know about the security risks--and future potential - of electronic voting and Internet voting. Sign Up Watch intro video Started on: 3 September 2012 (5 weeks long) Workload: 2-3 hours/week Information, Technology, and Design Computer Science: Systems, Security, Networking About the Course Computer technology has transformed how we participate in democracy. The way we cast our votes, the way our votes are counted, and the way we choose who will lead are increasingly controlled by invisible computer software. Most U.S. states have adopted electronic voting, and countries around the world are starting to collect votes over the Internet. However, computerized voting raises startling security risks that are only beginning to be understood outside the research lab, from voting machine viruses that can silently change votes to the possibility that hackers in foreign countries could steal an election. This course will provide the technical background and public policy foundation that 21st century citizens need to understand the electronic voting debate. You'll learn how electronic voting and Internet voting technologies work, why they're being introduced, and what problems they aim to solve. You'll also learn about the computer- and Internet-security risks these systems face and the serious vulnerabilities that recent research has demonstrated. We'll cover widely used safeguards, checks, and balances - and why they are often inadequate. Finally, we'll see how computer technology has the potential to improve election security, if it's applied intelligently. Along the way, you'll hear stories from the lab and from the trenches on a journey that leads from Mumbai jail cells to the halls of Washington, D.C. You'll come away from this course understanding why you can be confident your own vote will count - or why you should reasonably be skeptical. About the Instructor(s) J. Alex Halderman is an assistant professor of computer science and engineering at the University of Michigan. His research spans computer security and tech-centric public policy, including topics such as software security, data privacy, electronic voting, censorship resistance, and cybercrime, as well as technological aspects of intellectual property law and government regulation. He holds a Ph.D. from Princeton University. A noted expert on electronic voting security, Prof. Halderman helped demonstrate the first voting machine virus, participated in California's "top-to-bottom" electronic voting review, and exposed election security flaws in India, the world's largest democracy. He recently led a team from the University of Michigan that hacked into Washington D.C.'s Internet voting system. In his spare time, he reprogrammed a touch-screen voting machine to play Pac-Man Recommended Background Most of this course will be accessible to non-technical students. We will provide optional materials for those with some college-level computer science background. -- James S. Tyre Law Offices of James S. Tyre 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) jstyre at jstyre.com Policy Fellow, Electronic Frontier Foundation https://www.eff.org -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From nne75 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 4 12:58:17 2012 From: nne75 at yahoo.com (Nnenna) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 09:58:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [governance] Securing Digital Democracy In-Reply-To: <00cc01cd8abd$375ce7e0$a616b7a0$@jstyre.com> References: <00cc01cd8abd$375ce7e0$a616b7a0$@jstyre.com> Message-ID: <1346777897.85430.YahooMailNeo@web130101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks for the info, James.  I just signed up for the course! N   Nnenna  Nwakanma |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG  |  Consultants Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471 |Mob. 07416820 Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065| http://www.nnenna.org nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 | nnennaorg.blogspot.com ________________________________ From: James S. Tyre To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 4:49 PM Subject: [governance] Securing Digital Democracy This is a free online course by University of Michigan CS Prof Alex Halderman, an expert in the field.  Officially it started yesterday, but one can register and start when one wants.  I could be wrong (I often am), but I thought it might interest some here. https://www.coursera.org/course/digitaldemocracy Securing Digital Democracy J. Alex Halderman In this course, you'll learn what every citizen should know about the security risks--and future potential - of electronic voting and Internet voting. Sign Up Watch intro video Started on: 3 September 2012 (5 weeks long) Workload: 2-3 hours/week Information, Technology, and Design Computer Science: Systems, Security, Networking About the Course Computer technology has transformed how we participate in democracy. The way we cast our votes, the way our votes are counted, and the way we choose who will lead are increasingly controlled by invisible computer software. Most U.S. states have adopted electronic voting, and countries around the world are starting to collect votes over the Internet. However, computerized voting raises startling security risks that are only beginning to be understood outside the research lab, from voting machine viruses that can silently change votes to the possibility that hackers in foreign countries could steal an election. This course will provide the technical background and public policy foundation that 21st century citizens need to understand the electronic voting debate. You'll learn how electronic voting and Internet voting technologies work, why they're being introduced, and what problems they aim to solve. You'll also learn about the computer- and Internet-security risks these systems face and the serious vulnerabilities that recent research has demonstrated. We'll cover widely used safeguards, checks, and balances - and why they are often inadequate. Finally, we'll see how computer technology has the potential to improve election security, if it's applied intelligently. Along the way, you'll hear stories from the lab and from the trenches on a journey that leads from Mumbai jail cells to the halls of Washington, D.C. You'll come away from this course understanding why you can be confident your own vote will count - or why you should reasonably be skeptical. About the Instructor(s) J. Alex Halderman is an assistant professor of computer science and engineering at the University of Michigan. His research spans computer security and tech-centric public policy, including topics such as software security, data privacy, electronic voting, censorship resistance, and cybercrime, as well as technological aspects of intellectual property law and government regulation. He holds a Ph.D. from Princeton University. A noted expert on electronic voting security, Prof. Halderman helped demonstrate the first voting machine virus, participated in California's "top-to-bottom" electronic voting review, and exposed election security flaws in India, the world's largest democracy. He recently led a team from the University of Michigan that hacked into Washington D.C.'s Internet voting system. In his spare time, he reprogrammed a touch-screen voting machine to play Pac-Man Recommended Background Most of this course will be accessible to non-technical students. We will provide optional materials for those with some college-level computer science background. -- James S. Tyre Law Offices of James S. Tyre 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) jstyre at jstyre.com Policy Fellow, Electronic Frontier Foundation https://www.eff.org ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list:     governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit:     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see:     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:     http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From cveraq at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 13:15:32 2012 From: cveraq at gmail.com (Carlos Vera Quintana) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 12:15:32 -0500 Subject: [governance] Securing Digital Democracy In-Reply-To: <1346777897.85430.YahooMailNeo@web130101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <00cc01cd8abd$375ce7e0$a616b7a0$@jstyre.com> <1346777897.85430.YahooMailNeo@web130101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1DB3FD59-B9B3-4397-81C3-A9891DC28E50@gmail.com> +1 excelent! Carlos Enviado desde mi iPhone El 04/09/2012, a las 11:58, Nnenna escribió: > Thanks for the info, James. I just signed up for the course! > > N > > > > Nnenna Nwakanma | Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG | Consultants > Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development > Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax 224 26471 |Mob. 07416820 > Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065| http://www.nnenna.org > nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 | nnennaorg.blogspot.com > > From: James S. Tyre > To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org > Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 4:49 PM > Subject: [governance] Securing Digital Democracy > > This is a free online course by University of Michigan CS Prof Alex Halderman, an expert > in the field. Officially it started yesterday, but one can register and start when one > wants. I could be wrong (I often am), but I thought it might interest some here. > > https://www.coursera.org/course/digitaldemocracy > > Securing Digital Democracy > J. Alex Halderman > In this course, you'll learn what every citizen should know about the security risks--and > future potential - of electronic voting and Internet voting. > > Sign Up > > > Watch intro video > Started on: 3 September 2012 (5 weeks long) > Workload: 2-3 hours/week > Information, Technology, and Design > Computer Science: Systems, Security, Networking > > > About the Course > Computer technology has transformed how we participate in democracy. The way we cast our > votes, the way our votes are counted, and the way we choose who will lead are increasingly > controlled by invisible computer software. Most U.S. states have adopted electronic > voting, and countries around the world are starting to collect votes over the Internet. > However, computerized voting raises startling security risks that are only beginning to be > understood outside the research lab, from voting machine viruses that can silently change > votes to the possibility that hackers in foreign countries could steal an election. This > course will provide the technical background and public policy foundation that 21st > century citizens need to understand the electronic voting debate. You'll learn how > electronic voting and Internet voting technologies work, why they're being introduced, and > what problems they aim to solve. You'll also learn about the computer- and > Internet-security risks these systems face and the serious vulnerabilities that recent > research has demonstrated. We'll cover widely used safeguards, checks, and balances - and > why they are often inadequate. Finally, we'll see how computer technology has the > potential to improve election security, if it's applied intelligently. Along the way, > you'll hear stories from the lab and from the trenches on a journey that leads from Mumbai > jail cells to the halls of Washington, D.C. You'll come away from this course > understanding why you can be confident your own vote will count - or why you should > reasonably be skeptical. > > About the Instructor(s) > J. Alex Halderman is an assistant professor of computer science and engineering at the > University of Michigan. His research spans computer security and tech-centric public > policy, including topics such as software security, data privacy, electronic voting, > censorship resistance, and cybercrime, as well as technological aspects of intellectual > property law and government regulation. He holds a Ph.D. from Princeton University. > A noted expert on electronic voting security, Prof. Halderman helped demonstrate the first > voting machine virus, participated in California's "top-to-bottom" electronic voting > review, and exposed election security flaws in India, the world's largest democracy. He > recently led a team from the University of Michigan that hacked into Washington D.C.'s > Internet voting system. In his spare time, he reprogrammed a touch-screen voting machine > to play Pac-Man > > Recommended Background > Most of this course will be accessible to non-technical students. We will provide optional > materials for those with some college-level computer science background. > > -- > James S. Tyre > Law Offices of James S. Tyre > 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 > Culver City, CA 90230-4969 > 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) > jstyre at jstyre.com > Policy Fellow, Electronic Frontier Foundation > https://www.eff.org > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ca at cafonso.ca Tue Sep 4 13:42:36 2012 From: ca at cafonso.ca (Carlos A. Afonso) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 14:42:36 -0300 Subject: [governance] ICANN's legal status In-Reply-To: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220CD2E@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> References: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220CD2E@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: <50463D8C.3000208@cafonso.ca> On 09/04/2012 01:19 PM, Milton L Mueller wrote: > > > From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org > [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Dominique > Lacroix Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2012 10:13 AM To: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org Subject: Re: [governance] Big Porn v. > Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs [...] > > MM: It is a California "nonprofit public benefit" corporation" (or at > least, it is pretending to be one, until such time as it really > pisses someone off and they challenge its nonprofit status). > Hmmm... like now, in which a non-profit gets hundreds of millions in fees from the sale (should we use a different word?) at absolutely arbitrary prices of mnemonics to blocks of Internet addresses? --c.a. -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 13:48:17 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 19:48:17 +0200 Subject: [governance] global events in non-democratic countries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In Jordan, and in order to tighten up what the media publishes, the government started with censoring the Internet, and then a couple of days later they try to pass a law with the speed of light restricting the media from publishing flaws of the government, or writing negatively about the ruling family of Jordan. It was obvious for many of us that Internet censorship was the first building block of regulating media freedom of expression online. Fahd On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 6:45 PM, Oksana Prykhodko wrote: > Dear all, > > I would like to add new food to our old discussion about propriety to hold > international events in non-democratic countries. > > Kiev just now is hosting World Newspaper Congress, with participation of > the most influential editors and journalists from the whole world. > > Yesterday Jacob Mathew, President of the World Association of Newspapers > and News Publishers (WAN-IFRA), gave excellent analysis of media situation > in Ukraine, underlined main threats to media freedom. Then Ukrainian > president Victor Yanulovich gave his interpretation of the same situation, > stating, that there are no problems for the freedom of speech in Ukraine. > During his speech 12 Ukrainian journalists and media activists (I was among > them) stood up with critical banners. And were brutally attacked by > Yanukovich securities. > > It was excellent illustration to his words, and received world-wide > coverage (except of Ukrainian TV channels). > > Today 14 the most influential editors met Yanukovich and demanded to > investigate this incident and not to persecute protesters. > > I really highly appreciate support of WAN-IFRA and all lessons, that it > gave to Ukraine. And I hope that IGF in Baku will be also of great use to > Azeris. > > Best regards, > Oksana > > > http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2012/09/03/world/europe/03reuters-ukraine-journalists-protest.html?_r=2&ref=politics > > http://www.wan-ifra.org/articles/2012/09/06/press-freedom-an-own-goal-for-ukraine > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From nyangkweagien at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 14:23:25 2012 From: nyangkweagien at gmail.com (Nyangkwe Agien Aaron) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 20:23:25 +0200 Subject: [governance] Securing Digital Democracy In-Reply-To: <1DB3FD59-B9B3-4397-81C3-A9891DC28E50@gmail.com> References: <00cc01cd8abd$375ce7e0$a616b7a0$@jstyre.com> <1346777897.85430.YahooMailNeo@web130101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1DB3FD59-B9B3-4397-81C3-A9891DC28E50@gmail.com> Message-ID: Many thanks Jim I just registered Aaron On 9/4/12, Carlos Vera Quintana wrote: > +1 excelent! > > Carlos > > Enviado desde mi iPhone > > El 04/09/2012, a las 11:58, Nnenna escribió: > >> Thanks for the info, James. I just signed up for the course! >> >> N >> >> >> >> Nnenna Nwakanma | Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG | Consultants >> Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development >> Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax 224 26471 |Mob. 07416820 >> Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065| http://www.nnenna.org >> nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 | nnennaorg.blogspot.com >> >> From: James S. Tyre >> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 4:49 PM >> Subject: [governance] Securing Digital Democracy >> >> This is a free online course by University of Michigan CS Prof Alex >> Halderman, an expert >> in the field. Officially it started yesterday, but one can register and >> start when one >> wants. I could be wrong (I often am), but I thought it might interest >> some here. >> >> https://www.coursera.org/course/digitaldemocracy >> >> Securing Digital Democracy >> J. Alex Halderman >> In this course, you'll learn what every citizen should know about the >> security risks--and >> future potential - of electronic voting and Internet voting. >> >> Sign Up >> >> >> Watch intro video >> Started on: 3 September 2012 (5 weeks long) >> Workload: 2-3 hours/week >> Information, Technology, and Design >> Computer Science: Systems, Security, Networking >> >> >> About the Course >> Computer technology has transformed how we participate in democracy. The >> way we cast our >> votes, the way our votes are counted, and the way we choose who will lead >> are increasingly >> controlled by invisible computer software. Most U.S. states have adopted >> electronic >> voting, and countries around the world are starting to collect votes over >> the Internet. >> However, computerized voting raises startling security risks that are only >> beginning to be >> understood outside the research lab, from voting machine viruses that can >> silently change >> votes to the possibility that hackers in foreign countries could steal an >> election. This >> course will provide the technical background and public policy foundation >> that 21st >> century citizens need to understand the electronic voting debate. You'll >> learn how >> electronic voting and Internet voting technologies work, why they're being >> introduced, and >> what problems they aim to solve. You'll also learn about the computer- >> and >> Internet-security risks these systems face and the serious vulnerabilities >> that recent >> research has demonstrated. We'll cover widely used safeguards, checks, and >> balances - and >> why they are often inadequate. Finally, we'll see how computer technology >> has the >> potential to improve election security, if it's applied intelligently. >> Along the way, >> you'll hear stories from the lab and from the trenches on a journey that >> leads from Mumbai >> jail cells to the halls of Washington, D.C. You'll come away from this >> course >> understanding why you can be confident your own vote will count - or why >> you should >> reasonably be skeptical. >> >> About the Instructor(s) >> J. Alex Halderman is an assistant professor of computer science and >> engineering at the >> University of Michigan. His research spans computer security and >> tech-centric public >> policy, including topics such as software security, data privacy, >> electronic voting, >> censorship resistance, and cybercrime, as well as technological aspects of >> intellectual >> property law and government regulation. He holds a Ph.D. from Princeton >> University. >> A noted expert on electronic voting security, Prof. Halderman helped >> demonstrate the first >> voting machine virus, participated in California's "top-to-bottom" >> electronic voting >> review, and exposed election security flaws in India, the world's largest >> democracy. He >> recently led a team from the University of Michigan that hacked into >> Washington D.C.'s >> Internet voting system. In his spare time, he reprogrammed a touch-screen >> voting machine >> to play Pac-Man >> >> Recommended Background >> Most of this course will be accessible to non-technical students. We will >> provide optional >> materials for those with some college-level computer science background. >> >> -- >> James S. Tyre >> Law Offices of James S. Tyre >> 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 >> Culver City, CA 90230-4969 >> 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) >> jstyre at jstyre.com >> Policy Fellow, Electronic Frontier Foundation >> https://www.eff.org >> >> >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > -- Aaron Agien Nyangkwe Journalist-OutCome Mapper P.O.Box 5213 Douala-Cameroon Telephone +237 73 42 71 27 -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From pouzin at well.com Tue Sep 4 14:59:46 2012 From: pouzin at well.com (Louis Pouzin (well)) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 20:59:46 +0200 Subject: [governance] ICANN's legal status In-Reply-To: <50463D8C.3000208@cafonso.ca> References: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220CD2E@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <50463D8C.3000208@cafonso.ca> Message-ID: per http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/*racket* which definition would best match ICANN activities ? 1. a loud noise or clamor, especially of a disturbing or confusing kind; din; uproar: 2. social excitement, gaiety, or dissipation. 3. an organized illegal activity, such as bootlegging or the extortion of money from legitimate business people by threat or violence. 4. a dishonest scheme, trick, business, activity, etc.: the latest weight-reducing racket. Louis - - - On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 7:42 PM, Carlos A. Afonso wrote: > Hmmm... like now, in which a non-profit gets hundreds of millions in fees > from the sale (should we use a different word?) at absolutely arbitrary > prices of mnemonics to blocks of Internet addresses? > > --c.a. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From roland at internetpolicyagency.com Tue Sep 4 15:30:09 2012 From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 20:30:09 +0100 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220CD63@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> References: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220CD63@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: In message <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220CD63 at SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>, at 16:21:01 on Tue, 4 Sep 2012, Milton L Mueller writes > >Surely we all know that ICANN has been in this hornet's nest since at >least 2004, when .xxx was first mooted. The current new-gTLD process was conceived as a way to "never have to repeat" the problems ICANN encountered with one-off applications such as .xxx according to then chair Vint Cerf. -- Roland Perry -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From vanda at uol.com.br Tue Sep 4 15:31:40 2012 From: vanda at uol.com.br (Vanda UOL) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 16:31:40 -0300 Subject: RES: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <5045ACF1.3050500@cavebear.com> References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> <50455BE6.7030802@cavebear.com> <5045ACF1.3050500@cavebear.com> Message-ID: <018701cd8ad3$ed103f90$c730beb0$@uol.com.br> Karl, very clear thoughts! At my time in the board I have learned a lot about California Legal System, and dedicate lots of time to understand each decision clearly and act accordingly. Even not belonging to the culture of "direct question" I believe I left the impression among my pairs that I would not accept anything without a clear explanation. Be Board member is not an easy task and sure adds lots of possible liability, but the task itself, even in our time, without any compensation ( that I consider a better choice), worth the experience! Best, -----Mensagem original----- De: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] Em nome de Karl Auerbach Enviada em: terça-feira, 4 de setembro de 2012 04:26 Para: Chaitanya Dhareshwar Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro Assunto: Re: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest On 09/03/2012 07:19 PM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar wrote: > No more public seats!? Gone the voice of reason is..? > > There's QUITE some detail in your diary Karl. I understand how this > gives the public information - but how does this become insurance? > Could you elaborate please? That is an extremely complex question and it is affected by laws that vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. I can only begin to touch the surface in an email. Let me begin by reflecting that ICANN obtains it legal existence from the laws of the State of California under a provision pertaining to non-profit/public-benefit corporations. (There are many kinds of corporations and many kinds of non-profits, so the public-benefit part is important.) California isn't particularly unique in its laws - it, like much of the world, is a blend of Civil Law and Common Law concepts diluted by a lot of modern thought and pragmatic experience. As such one will tend to find that what is true in California will often have counterparts in the laws of other places. As a result I tend to be mildly amused by those who argue that ICANN should be moved elsewhere - my amusement comes from my thought that "the corporations laws of all those other places are probably more similar to those of California than they are different". The USA is also a federal system in which power is divided between the national level and the state level. As such ICANN also has status under the national tax law as a "501(c)(3)" which means that it gets an exemption from taxation because of charitable of scientific purposes. It is important to distinguish between those two things. With regard to the US national, 501(c)(3) status there is a thing called "intermediate sanctions" which occurs when a body of that status pays an "excess benefit" to a closely related party. Generally that means paying above fair market value to someone who is a director, officer, founder, or in some other way exercises a strong level of control. That sanction is cast as a 200% tax and insurance policies tend not to insure against the risk of taxation. This law was intended to be draconian. Since those intermediate sanctions can fall directly onto the personal assets of corporate directors there is a possibility that ICANN's insurance for directors may not provide protection. (The situation gets even more complicated when directors are compensated - one can drown in the details of this stuff. Suffice it to say that prudence suggests that one should try to avoid getting anywhere near entangled by this stuff. The point about the diary is more at the level of state law. Typical corporate law imposes very heavy duties on corporate directors - the word is "fiduciary duty". It is a very, very heavy burden and contains a large amount of risk to a director's personal assets. It is also an extremely complicated duty. For example, as a California public benefit corporation ICANN's directors are obligated to consider the impact upon the public well being when evaluating whether a proposed action is in the best interest of the corporation or not. Many directors do not understand this and consider only the best interest of the public benefit corporation without recognizing the need to incorporate the effect upon the public. Because of the difficult and potentially draconian nature of fiduciary responsibilities there is an escape valve built into most corporation laws - which is the idea that directors are allowed some flexibility as long as they act in certain ways. One of those ways is that a corporate director obtains a degree of protection if he/she can demonstrate that he is making an informed, reasonable decision in the context of a business purpose. The rule allows a director to make a mistake and yet avoid liability for that mistake - It's a rather sensible idea, otherwise no one would risk taking on the role of a director. So my diary was intended to demonstrate that when I was making a choice that I had tried to become informed, that I tried to evaluate the alternatives, and that the decision was being made in the context of the purpose of the business. That point about being "informed" is more tricky than one might think ... being on ICANN's board requires an enormous amount of work just to keep up, and much more to understand, and even more to really comprehend the competing issues. Any person who considers the role should recognize that it is more than a full-time job. Becoming informed is hard - that is why when I was on the board I'd ask many questions, often to the point of annoying those who wanted to move ahead. But I discovered that some disputes coming before ICANN were really not disputes at all, but rather were people who were talking past one another using different words. Asking questions tends to reveal when their are real differences or merely much more easily correct mis-understandings. There are plenty of real and hard issues in internet governance, so it is nice to be able to find the easy ones by asking some questions. And the diary was also meant to be a two-way street - by exposing my thought processes others could see where I had gone awry and could try to change my point of view. I found that very valuable - there is nothing like disagreement to cause two people to explain themselves to one another. ;-) This is an area in which internet governance is weak - We Americans tend to feel comfortable with a rough-and-tumble dialog - an argument - as a means to illuminate and comprehend issues. Other cultures work through less confrontational means. Both methods are correct, neither method is wrong. I found, however, that there is not enough accommodation by those who use one of these methods for those who use the other. As an American I found myself often upbraided (often rather subtly) for being very direct in my questions and words. And as an American I often found it difficult to comprehend how I was to learn enough about issues if I did not ask direct questions and used, instead, indirect means. --karl-- -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From apisan at unam.mx Tue Sep 4 15:35:21 2012 From: apisan at unam.mx (Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 19:35:21 +0000 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220CD63@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> References: ,<855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220CD63@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483DC29C@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> Milton, many of us do, but does everybody know of your role in bringing .xxx back to business? Alejandro Pisanty ! !! !!! !!!! NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475 Dr. Alejandro Pisanty UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ________________________________ Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Milton L Mueller [mueller at syr.edu] Enviado el: martes, 04 de septiembre de 2012 11:21 Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; 'Louis Pouzin (well)' Asunto: RE: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest Surely we all know that ICANN has been in this hornet's nest since at least 2004, when .xxx was first mooted. From: pouzin at gmail.com [mailto:pouzin at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Louis Pouzin (well) Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2012 1:40 PM To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/news/internet/Domain-names-spark-dispute-among-religious-groups/articleshow/16130800.cms Today, more than 6600 complaints for 1931 gTLD applications https://gtldcomment.icann.org/comments-feedback/applicationcomment/viewcomments Let's put up a $185K award for the last one ! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From mueller at syr.edu Tue Sep 4 15:50:07 2012 From: mueller at syr.edu (Milton L Mueller) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 19:50:07 +0000 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483DC29C@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> References: ,<855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220CD63@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483DC29C@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> Message-ID: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220CF33@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> If they don't, I will proudly tell them that I was an expert witness in the first-ever ICANN Independent Review Process. Along with half a dozen other witnesses, I helped to prove to an independent international tribunal that ICANN had been unduly influenced by the U.S. Commerce Department to reject the .xxx domain and that its rejection of the domain was arbitrary, unfair, discriminatory and did not follow its own stated criteria for approving domains. Relevant documents can be found here: http://www.icann.org/en/news/irp/icm-v-icann I was too modest to point this out myself, but I know I can always count on Alejandro to toot my horn. ;-) From: Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch [mailto:apisan at unam.mx] but does everybody know of your role in bringing .xxx back to business? Alejandro Pisanty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From drc at virtualized.org Tue Sep 4 15:51:58 2012 From: drc at virtualized.org (David Conrad) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 12:51:58 -0700 Subject: [governance] ICANN's legal status In-Reply-To: <50463D8C.3000208@cafonso.ca> References: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220CD2E@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <50463D8C.3000208@cafonso.ca> Message-ID: <16A6E29C-EB94-4250-994E-578E1E48BD84@virtualized.org> Carlos, On Sep 4, 2012, at 10:42 AM, Carlos A. Afonso wrote: >> MM: It is a California "nonprofit public benefit" corporation" (or at >> least, it is pretending to be one, until such time as it really >> pisses someone off and they challenge its nonprofit status). > Hmmm... like now, in which a non-profit gets hundreds of millions in > fees from the sale (should we use a different word?) at absolutely > arbitrary prices of mnemonics to blocks of Internet addresses? "Non-profit" does not mean "can't engage in commerce". Given the likelihood of lawsuits, I suspect the "hundreds of millions in fees" will not add up to much in the way of profits (well, for anyone but the lawyers)... Regards, -drc -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From vanda at uol.com.br Tue Sep 4 15:54:25 2012 From: vanda at uol.com.br (Vanda UOL) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 16:54:25 -0300 Subject: RES: [governance] global events in non-democratic countries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01a701cd8ad7$1724c5a0$456e50e0$@uol.com.br> Just a thought: if the media went there may they believe, as I also do, that learn about freedom needs experience, examples and lots of talk. These events may be the best opportunity these countries need to go one step forward into real freedom. -----Mensagem original----- De: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] Em nome de Oksana Prykhodko Enviada em: terça-feira, 4 de setembro de 2012 13:46 Para: IG Caucus Assunto: [governance] global events in non-democratic countries Dear all, I would like to add new food to our old discussion about propriety to hold international events in non-democratic countries. Kiev just now is hosting World Newspaper Congress, with participation of the most influential editors and journalists from the whole world. Yesterday Jacob Mathew, President of the World Association of Newspapers and News Publishers (WAN-IFRA), gave excellent analysis of media situation in Ukraine, underlined main threats to media freedom. Then Ukrainian president Victor Yanulovich gave his interpretation of the same situation, stating, that there are no problems for the freedom of speech in Ukraine. During his speech 12 Ukrainian journalists and media activists (I was among them) stood up with critical banners. And were brutally attacked by Yanukovich securities. It was excellent illustration to his words, and received world-wide coverage (except of Ukrainian TV channels). Today 14 the most influential editors met Yanukovich and demanded to investigate this incident and not to persecute protesters. I really highly appreciate support of WAN-IFRA and all lessons, that it gave to Ukraine. And I hope that IGF in Baku will be also of great use to Azeris. Best regards, Oksana http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2012/09/03/world/europe/03reuters-ukraine-journalists-protest.html?_r=2&ref=politics http://www.wan-ifra.org/articles/2012/09/06/press-freedom-an-own-goal-for-ukraine -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From mueller at syr.edu Tue Sep 4 16:13:46 2012 From: mueller at syr.edu (Milton L Mueller) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 20:13:46 +0000 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> <50455BE6.7030802@cavebear.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483DAAEE@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> Message-ID: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220CF9C@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> Adam, The distractions associated with running a members election are miniscule compared to the vast amount of money ICANN spent, and spends, on the At Large Advisory Committee. And don't forget the substantial amount of time, money and energy that is dumped into At Large by volunteers in the Regional At Large Organizations (RALOs). The ALAC and RALOs are jokes, with mostly dead mailing lists dominated in discussion by a handful of people, perhaps a dozen at most. There are some very good individuals in ALAC and in RALOs, who contribute greatly to policy making and to ICANN, but their participation could just as easily be channeled into ICANN the way the GNSO does it, through working groups. What At Large is NOT is an accountability mechanism - which is what the whole ICANN members/voting system was supposed to be. When creating ICANN, everyone involved (except, of course, for the people who were helicoptered onto the interim Board) thought it was absolutely crazy to create a powerful global institution without a membership to which the organization could be held accountable. If you look at California public benefit corporation law, it is all about how these corporations should be held accountable to their members. The current form of At Large was devised as an ESCAPE from that. The idea that At large is a form of global participation and (more importantly) global accountability is just not defensible; many of the people in ALAC, far from holding the Board accountable, are trying very hard to get onto the board and are very interested in ingratiating themselves to the Board and to GAC. Their incentives are to rise up the organizational ladder, not to keep ICANN accountable. The point about voting is that it gives each individual the right to express _their own_ preference, and it makes that preference count, in the aggregate, in a very clearly measured way. The organizational pyramid that Alejandro helped to create, in contrast, pretends that 3 people represent an entire world region - and one of those people is not even selected by people in that region, but by a Nominating Committee which the ALAC itself selects! Alejandro's contrast of the admitted but fixable flaws of an election does not include any real analysis of the very obvious and fundamentally unfixable flaws in an organizational pyramid scheme that is the At Large. --MM > -----Original Message----- > From: apeake at gmail.com [mailto:apeake at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Adam > Peake > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 2:40 AM > To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org > Subject: Re: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest > > Anyone interested in some history of the at large election might look here: > > A one page summary > report/final/010907abstract.shtml> > > and reports: > > http://web.archive.org/web/20030621172016/http://www.naisproject.org/r > eport/final/execsummaryA4.pdf > > http://web.archive.org/web/20030621172016/http://www.naisproject.org/r > eport/final/naisreportUSLetter.pdf > > At the time, I thought the problems were fixable and ICANN should have > tried a second round, a lot of the problems would not have been hard > to fix. Now I'm much less sure, I think an annual election would be a > massive distraction for the organization and volunteers who already > have too little time. But should not be discounted. A new study as a > new ATRT round starts might be useful. > > Adam -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fouadbajwa at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 16:31:34 2012 From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Bajwa) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 01:31:34 +0500 Subject: [governance] ICANN's legal status In-Reply-To: References: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220CD2E@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <50463D8C.3000208@cafonso.ca> Message-ID: One thing I fail to understand is that rhetoric around the possibility that if ICANN was and International body moved beyond US territory and incorporation laws into an international treaty that it would become immune to certain international laws? I tend to believe that whenever any new political process evolves into an international treaty or agreement it is bound to some kind of political instruments that are constructed to benefit that particular international setting. I cannot pick up WIPO processes and apply them directly to the Human Rights Declaration but I can definitely identify a development agenda and apply it in WIPO's existing processes to challenge and extract a new set of insights and understanding that can positively affect international development through influencing public policy of member states. I would agree to some extent that a majority of countries would like to see some independent international body or structure to address issues related to Internet and Public Policy but I would always defend the 'and' in between Internet 'and' Public Policy. International institution development or negotiation instruments can evolve into policy but that cannot be directly taken as public policy, it can influence public policy in stakeholder countries but itself cannot stand as public policy and only complement it. Thats where I see ICANN but since its incorporated in the US without a multilateral treaty, it would be stand outside the scope of a recognized International Policy setting. You may call it a 'defacto' industry evolved activity but within International Treaty or Agreements, it simply does not exist and I would not defend it. I have developed a belief over time that we are dealing with the politics of two different societies in terms of Internet Public Policy or Internet Governance per se. I believe that the IG process would have benefited from taking into account that there are two multistakeholder-"isms" (very dissimilar) and must be tackled in a very different light. I have always found Milton's and Parminder's point of views to clearly show this dissimilarity and I have stopped putting their arguments and disagreements as two contesting ideologies. Its a dissimilarity of these isms and societies. As for the sake of this discussion, these two schools of political thought in terms of Internet Public Policy will remain side by side whether we want to accept it or not. The two contexts will continue to have their different understandings and struggles. ICANN's status will be digestible to some and indigestible to most and there is no single medicine that can change this point of views. Where will arguments go if the origin of all political thought was the same? fOO-da-bytes On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 11:59 PM, Louis Pouzin (well) wrote: > per http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racket > > which definition would best match ICANN activities ? > > 1. a loud noise or clamor, especially of a disturbing or confusing kind; > din; uproar: > 2. social excitement, gaiety, or dissipation. > 3. an organized illegal activity, such as bootlegging or the extortion of > money from legitimate business people by threat or violence. > 4. a dishonest scheme, trick, business, activity, etc.: the latest > weight-reducing racket. > > Louis > - - - > > > On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 7:42 PM, Carlos A. Afonso wrote: >> >> Hmmm... like now, in which a non-profit gets hundreds of millions in fees >> from the sale (should we use a different word?) at absolutely arbitrary >> prices of mnemonics to blocks of Internet addresses? >> >> --c.a. > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fouadbajwa at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 16:40:09 2012 From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Bajwa) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 01:40:09 +0500 Subject: [governance] global events in non-democratic countries In-Reply-To: <01a701cd8ad7$1724c5a0$456e50e0$@uol.com.br> References: <01a701cd8ad7$1724c5a0$456e50e0$@uol.com.br> Message-ID: This school of thought that events that encourage and promote dialogue on Freedom of Expression online should not happen in repressive countries should be discouraged as such events can help in changing or atleast challenging repression. I have known people and groups to participate in the IGF and have a dialogue on issues that would otherwise be very hard to carryout outside the IGF setting. We can be very critical to countries like Azerbaijan but we would not want to prevent such countries from experiencing the trigger to towards opportunities to change their thought even if it benefits only a handful. ...FoO-da-bytes On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 12:54 AM, Vanda UOL wrote: > Just a thought: if the media went there may they believe, as I also do, that learn about freedom needs experience, examples and lots of talk. These events may be the best opportunity these countries need to go one step forward into real freedom. > > -----Mensagem original----- > De: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] Em nome de Oksana Prykhodko > Enviada em: terça-feira, 4 de setembro de 2012 13:46 > Para: IG Caucus > Assunto: [governance] global events in non-democratic countries > > Dear all, > > I would like to add new food to our old discussion about propriety to hold international events in non-democratic countries. > > Kiev just now is hosting World Newspaper Congress, with participation of the most influential editors and journalists from the whole world. > > Yesterday Jacob Mathew, President of the World Association of Newspapers and News Publishers (WAN-IFRA), gave excellent analysis of media situation in Ukraine, underlined main threats to media freedom. > Then Ukrainian president Victor Yanulovich gave his interpretation of the same situation, stating, that there are no problems for the freedom of speech in Ukraine. > During his speech 12 Ukrainian journalists and media activists (I was among them) stood up with critical banners. And were brutally attacked by Yanukovich securities. > > It was excellent illustration to his words, and received world-wide coverage (except of Ukrainian TV channels). > > Today 14 the most influential editors met Yanukovich and demanded to investigate this incident and not to persecute protesters. > > I really highly appreciate support of WAN-IFRA and all lessons, that it gave to Ukraine. And I hope that IGF in Baku will be also of great use to Azeris. > > Best regards, > Oksana > > http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2012/09/03/world/europe/03reuters-ukraine-journalists-protest.html?_r=2&ref=politics > http://www.wan-ifra.org/articles/2012/09/06/press-freedom-an-own-goal-for-ukraine > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > -- -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From sana.pryhod at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 16:40:27 2012 From: sana.pryhod at gmail.com (Oksana Prykhodko) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 23:40:27 +0300 Subject: [governance] global events in non-democratic countries In-Reply-To: <01a701cd8ad7$1724c5a0$456e50e0$@uol.com.br> References: <01a701cd8ad7$1724c5a0$456e50e0$@uol.com.br> Message-ID: Thank you, Milton, I am OK. I even received recognition for my deadly weapon - earsplitting shriek) 2012/9/4 Vanda UOL : > Just a thought: if the media went there may they believe, as I also do, that learn about freedom needs experience, examples and lots of talk. These events may be the best opportunity these countries need to go one step forward into real freedom. > > -----Mensagem original----- > De: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] Em nome de Oksana Prykhodko > Enviada em: terça-feira, 4 de setembro de 2012 13:46 > Para: IG Caucus > Assunto: [governance] global events in non-democratic countries > > Dear all, > > I would like to add new food to our old discussion about propriety to hold international events in non-democratic countries. > > Kiev just now is hosting World Newspaper Congress, with participation of the most influential editors and journalists from the whole world. > > Yesterday Jacob Mathew, President of the World Association of Newspapers and News Publishers (WAN-IFRA), gave excellent analysis of media situation in Ukraine, underlined main threats to media freedom. > Then Ukrainian president Victor Yanulovich gave his interpretation of the same situation, stating, that there are no problems for the freedom of speech in Ukraine. > During his speech 12 Ukrainian journalists and media activists (I was among them) stood up with critical banners. And were brutally attacked by Yanukovich securities. > > It was excellent illustration to his words, and received world-wide coverage (except of Ukrainian TV channels). > > Today 14 the most influential editors met Yanukovich and demanded to investigate this incident and not to persecute protesters. > > I really highly appreciate support of WAN-IFRA and all lessons, that it gave to Ukraine. And I hope that IGF in Baku will be also of great use to Azeris. > > Best regards, > Oksana > > http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2012/09/03/world/europe/03reuters-ukraine-journalists-protest.html?_r=2&ref=politics > http://www.wan-ifra.org/articles/2012/09/06/press-freedom-an-own-goal-for-ukraine > > -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From sana.pryhod at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 16:51:20 2012 From: sana.pryhod at gmail.com (Oksana Prykhodko) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 23:51:20 +0300 Subject: [governance] global events in non-democratic countries In-Reply-To: References: <01a701cd8ad7$1724c5a0$456e50e0$@uol.com.br> Message-ID: Roni, exactly! 2012/9/4 Fouad Bajwa : > This school of thought that events that encourage and promote dialogue > on Freedom of Expression online should not happen in repressive > countries should be discouraged as such events can help in changing or > atleast challenging repression. > > I have known people and groups to participate in the IGF and have a > dialogue on issues that would otherwise be very hard to carryout > outside the IGF setting. > > We can be very critical to countries like Azerbaijan but we would not > want to prevent such countries from experiencing the trigger to > towards opportunities to change their thought even if it benefits only > a handful. > > ...FoO-da-bytes > > On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 12:54 AM, Vanda UOL wrote: >> Just a thought: if the media went there may they believe, as I also do, that learn about freedom needs experience, examples and lots of talk. These events may be the best opportunity these countries need to go one step forward into real freedom. >> >> -----Mensagem original----- >> De: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] Em nome de Oksana Prykhodko >> Enviada em: terça-feira, 4 de setembro de 2012 13:46 >> Para: IG Caucus >> Assunto: [governance] global events in non-democratic countries >> >> Dear all, >> >> I would like to add new food to our old discussion about propriety to hold international events in non-democratic countries. >> >> Kiev just now is hosting World Newspaper Congress, with participation of the most influential editors and journalists from the whole world. >> >> Yesterday Jacob Mathew, President of the World Association of Newspapers and News Publishers (WAN-IFRA), gave excellent analysis of media situation in Ukraine, underlined main threats to media freedom. >> Then Ukrainian president Victor Yanulovich gave his interpretation of the same situation, stating, that there are no problems for the freedom of speech in Ukraine. >> During his speech 12 Ukrainian journalists and media activists (I was among them) stood up with critical banners. And were brutally attacked by Yanukovich securities. >> >> It was excellent illustration to his words, and received world-wide coverage (except of Ukrainian TV channels). >> >> Today 14 the most influential editors met Yanukovich and demanded to investigate this incident and not to persecute protesters. >> >> I really highly appreciate support of WAN-IFRA and all lessons, that it gave to Ukraine. And I hope that IGF in Baku will be also of great use to Azeris. >> >> Best regards, >> Oksana >> >> http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2012/09/03/world/europe/03reuters-ukraine-journalists-protest.html?_r=2&ref=politics >> http://www.wan-ifra.org/articles/2012/09/06/press-freedom-an-own-goal-for-ukraine >> >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> > > > > -- > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 17:11:37 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 09:11:37 +1200 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220CF9C@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> <50455BE6.7030802@cavebear.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483DAAEE@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220CF9C@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: Disclosure: I am a member of the ALAC by virtue of being elected within the Asian Australasian Pacific Regional At Large Organisation to the ALAC. I will respond as always in my individual capacity and not as an ALAC member. I have always held the view that dialogue is important in understanding perspectives. Snip The ALAC and RALOs are jokes, with mostly dead mailing lists dominated in discussion by a handful of people, perhaps a dozen at most. I would say that the ALAC and RALOs are a mechanisms that enable participation into policy processes in an organised manner. The like ALAC like other Advisory Committees and Supporting Organisations continue to work towards expanding their base to enable others to participate. As you can imagine the Policy work within ICANN is mainly technical so building capacity within At Large Structures its members is critical to enable meaningful participation within these policy processes. I am also mindful that aside from capacity there are regions around the world who also struggle with internet connectivity (aside from cost - access there is also avalabiity - access) and as such participation is challenging. I would not call the ALAC and RALO jokes but I would say that there is always room for improvement and expansion of a critical mass. I am open to suggestions as I am also preparing a capacity building and outreach paper to follow the one that I published on the Wiki after Dakar last year. There are some very good individuals in ALAC and in RALOs, who contribute greatly to policy making and to ICANN, but their participation could just as easily be channeled into ICANN the way the GNSO does it, through working groups. I hear what you are saying but my views are that the fundamental difference is that GNSO who have a stake in the pie. The ALAC are kind of like the Levites or priests, they stand in representation of the people but don't own land or have vested interests. If they do have vested interests then they are duty bound to declare those interests. As people who do not have vested interests but for volunteering to ensure that global public interest is protected in the best way that they can, it is hard and extremely challenging to get volunteers to engage in robust discussion on a wide range of policy and administration matters consistently at an average of 5 hours per day and staying on calls at weird hours like 2am for some consistently and to do this out of the spirit of volunteerism and in the name of global public interest. To ridicule this effort is a choice but I will differ with you on this and say that I stand in admiration of man, woman and child who in the name of volunteerism have given up sleep, lost a bit of comfort for the sake of the many. Yes, often times they will go unappreciated, misunderstood but they are in it because they believe that people can make a difference. > > What At Large is NOT is an accountability mechanism - which is what the > whole ICANN members/voting system was supposed to be. At Large in itself is not an accountability mechanism it is all of the global community within ICANN that exists to add to the potpourri and balance each other's voices. I know you would have looked at the Bylaws and they are very clear in terms of the mechanisms available to make the system accountable. > When creating ICANN, everyone involved (except, of course, for the people > who were helicoptered onto the interim Board) thought it was absolutely > crazy to create a powerful global institution without a membership to which > the organization could be held accountable. > > > > The idea that At large is a form of global participation and (more > importantly) global accountability is just not defensible; many of the > people in ALAC, far from holding the Board accountable, are trying very > hard to get onto the board and are very interested in ingratiating > themselves to the Board and to GAC. Their incentives are to rise up the > organizational ladder, not to keep ICANN accountable. > I believe that the ALAC does its best to hold the Board accountable. As members of the community, we liaise with all stakeholders within ICANN and we may disagree on issues but that does not mean we can't leave shaking hands. I know no ALAC member whose incentive it is to rise up the organisational ladder, in fact quite the contrary. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: apeake at gmail.com [mailto:apeake at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Adam > > Peake > > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 2:40 AM > > To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org > > Subject: Re: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest > > > > Anyone interested in some history of the at large election might look > here: > > > > A one page summary > > > report/final/010907abstract.shtml> > > > > and reports: > > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20030621172016/http://www.naisproject.org/r > > eport/final/execsummaryA4.pdf > > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20030621172016/http://www.naisproject.org/r > > eport/final/naisreportUSLetter.pdf > > > > At the time, I thought the problems were fixable and ICANN should have > > tried a second round, a lot of the problems would not have been hard > > to fix. Now I'm much less sure, I think an annual election would be a > > massive distraction for the organization and volunteers who already > > have too little time. But should not be discounted. A new study as a > > new ATRT round starts might be useful. > > > > Adam > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 17:13:29 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 09:13:29 +1200 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> <50455BE6.7030802@cavebear.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483DAAEE@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220CF9C@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: Please excuse the typos and grammatical errors, " are a mechanisms" should read "are mechanisms"....been up the entire night reviewing policy and making submissions...yes ALAC work. ;) On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 9:11 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > Disclosure: I am a member of the ALAC by virtue of being elected within > the Asian Australasian Pacific Regional At Large Organisation to the ALAC. > > I will respond as always in my individual capacity and not as an ALAC > member. I have always held the view that dialogue is important in > understanding perspectives. > > Snip > > > The ALAC and RALOs are jokes, with mostly dead mailing lists dominated in > discussion by a handful of people, perhaps a dozen at most. > > I would say that the ALAC and RALOs are a mechanisms that enable > participation into policy processes in an organised manner. The like ALAC > like other Advisory Committees and Supporting Organisations continue to > work towards expanding their base to enable others to participate. As you > can imagine the Policy work within ICANN is mainly technical so building > capacity within At Large Structures its members is critical to enable > meaningful participation within these policy processes. I am also mindful > that aside from capacity there are regions around the world who also > struggle with internet connectivity (aside from cost - access there is also > avalabiity - access) and as such participation is challenging. > > I would not call the ALAC and RALO jokes but I would say that there is > always room for improvement and expansion of a critical mass. I am open to > suggestions as I am also preparing a capacity building and outreach paper > to follow the one that I published on the Wiki after Dakar last year. > > There are some very good individuals in ALAC and in RALOs, who contribute > greatly to policy making and to ICANN, but their participation could just > as easily be channeled into ICANN the way the GNSO does it, through working > groups. > > I hear what you are saying but my views are that the fundamental > difference is that GNSO who have a stake in the pie. The ALAC are kind of > like the Levites or priests, they stand in representation of the people but > don't own land or have vested interests. If they do have vested interests > then they are duty bound to declare those interests. As people who do not > have vested interests but for volunteering to ensure that global public > interest is protected in the best way that they can, it is hard and > extremely challenging to get volunteers to engage in robust discussion on a > wide range of policy and administration matters consistently at an average > of 5 hours per day and staying on calls at weird hours like 2am for some > consistently and to do this out of the spirit of volunteerism and in the > name of global public interest. To ridicule this effort is a choice but I > will differ with you on this and say that I stand in admiration of man, > woman and child who in the name of volunteerism have given up sleep, lost a > bit of comfort for the sake of the many. Yes, often times they will go > unappreciated, misunderstood but they are in it because they believe that > people can make a difference. > >> >> What At Large is NOT is an accountability mechanism - which is what the >> whole ICANN members/voting system was supposed to be. > > > At Large in itself is not an accountability mechanism it is all of the > global community within ICANN that exists to add to the potpourri and > balance each other's voices. I know you would have looked at the Bylaws and > they are very clear in terms of the mechanisms available to make the system > accountable. > > >> When creating ICANN, everyone involved (except, of course, for the people >> who were helicoptered onto the interim Board) thought it was absolutely >> crazy to create a powerful global institution without a membership to which >> the organization could be held accountable. >> > > >> >> >> The idea that At large is a form of global participation and (more >> importantly) global accountability is just not defensible; many of the >> people in ALAC, far from holding the Board accountable, are trying very >> hard to get onto the board and are very interested in ingratiating >> themselves to the Board and to GAC. Their incentives are to rise up the >> organizational ladder, not to keep ICANN accountable. >> > I believe that the ALAC does its best to hold the Board accountable. As > members of the community, we liaise with all stakeholders within ICANN and > we may disagree on issues but that does not mean we can't leave shaking > hands. I know no ALAC member whose incentive it is to rise up the > organisational ladder, in fact quite the contrary. > > > >> >> >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: apeake at gmail.com [mailto:apeake at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Adam >> > Peake >> > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 2:40 AM >> > To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> > Subject: Re: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest >> > >> > Anyone interested in some history of the at large election might look >> here: >> > >> > A one page summary >> > > > report/final/010907abstract.shtml> >> > >> > and reports: >> > >> > http://web.archive.org/web/20030621172016/http://www.naisproject.org/r >> > eport/final/execsummaryA4.pdf >> > >> > http://web.archive.org/web/20030621172016/http://www.naisproject.org/r >> > eport/final/naisreportUSLetter.pdf >> > >> > At the time, I thought the problems were fixable and ICANN should have >> > tried a second round, a lot of the problems would not have been hard >> > to fix. Now I'm much less sure, I think an annual election would be a >> > massive distraction for the organization and volunteers who already >> > have too little time. But should not be discounted. A new study as a >> > new ATRT round starts might be useful. >> > >> > Adam >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 17:23:19 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 09:23:19 +1200 Subject: [governance] global events in non-democratic countries In-Reply-To: References: <01a701cd8ad7$1724c5a0$456e50e0$@uol.com.br> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 8:40 AM, Oksana Prykhodko wrote: > Thank you, Milton, I am OK. I even received recognition for my deadly > weapon - earsplitting shriek) > > lol @ ear splitting shriek. I agree with Vanda. I suppose it is a hard decision to make and each context/situation differs and requires a subjective assessment. > 2012/9/4 Vanda UOL : > > Just a thought: if the media went there may they believe, as I also do, > that learn about freedom needs experience, examples and lots of talk. These > events may be the best opportunity these countries need to go one step > forward into real freedom. > > > > -----Mensagem original----- > > De: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto: > governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] Em nome de Oksana Prykhodko > > Enviada em: terça-feira, 4 de setembro de 2012 13:46 > > Para: IG Caucus > > Assunto: [governance] global events in non-democratic countries > > > > Dear all, > > > > I would like to add new food to our old discussion about propriety to > hold international events in non-democratic countries. > > > > Kiev just now is hosting World Newspaper Congress, with participation of > the most influential editors and journalists from the whole world. > > > > Yesterday Jacob Mathew, President of the World Association of Newspapers > and News Publishers (WAN-IFRA), gave excellent analysis of media situation > in Ukraine, underlined main threats to media freedom. > > Then Ukrainian president Victor Yanulovich gave his interpretation of > the same situation, stating, that there are no problems for the freedom of > speech in Ukraine. > > During his speech 12 Ukrainian journalists and media activists (I was > among them) stood up with critical banners. And were brutally attacked by > Yanukovich securities. > > > > It was excellent illustration to his words, and received world-wide > coverage (except of Ukrainian TV channels). > > > > Today 14 the most influential editors met Yanukovich and demanded to > investigate this incident and not to persecute protesters. > > > > I really highly appreciate support of WAN-IFRA and all lessons, that it > gave to Ukraine. And I hope that IGF in Baku will be also of great use to > Azeris. > > > > Best regards, > > Oksana > > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2012/09/03/world/europe/03reuters-ukraine-journalists-protest.html?_r=2&ref=politics > > > http://www.wan-ifra.org/articles/2012/09/06/press-freedom-an-own-goal-for-ukraine > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From apisan at unam.mx Tue Sep 4 17:38:16 2012 From: apisan at unam.mx (Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 21:38:16 +0000 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220CF9C@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> <50455BE6.7030802@cavebear.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483DAAEE@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> ,<855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220CF9C@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483DC585@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> Milton, the trained eye discerns that you have not forgiven Internet users for deciding to go around your bully pulpit in the non-commercial constituency. How slow and hard it has been to create spaces deprived of the dominance of your insult and disqualification. One of the most interesting flaws in your argument is that the scheme of the At-Large election you espouse gives each region of the world only one seat in the Board, instead of three, and creates incentives for the easy hijack that was narrowly prevented in the At-Large election. The At-Large structures and processes were largely a design of Esther Dyson and are a work in progress. Another interesting fact that does not appear in your note is that the ICANN reform of 2003 (yes, friends, we have been taken to 2003) had very simple premises. One of them was to bring some responsibility to participation. Previous to that, anyone could disrupt the policy process by many games (politics of delay among others) without having to abide by the result. Talk about perverse incentives!! Now it's only you who can do that. Alejandro Pisanty ! !! !!! !!!! NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475 Dr. Alejandro Pisanty UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ________________________________________ Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Milton L Mueller [mueller at syr.edu] Enviado el: martes, 04 de septiembre de 2012 15:13 Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; 'Adam Peake' Asunto: RE: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest Adam, The distractions associated with running a members election are miniscule compared to the vast amount of money ICANN spent, and spends, on the At Large Advisory Committee. And don't forget the substantial amount of time, money and energy that is dumped into At Large by volunteers in the Regional At Large Organizations (RALOs). The ALAC and RALOs are jokes, with mostly dead mailing lists dominated in discussion by a handful of people, perhaps a dozen at most. There are some very good individuals in ALAC and in RALOs, who contribute greatly to policy making and to ICANN, but their participation could just as easily be channeled into ICANN the way the GNSO does it, through working groups. What At Large is NOT is an accountability mechanism - which is what the whole ICANN members/voting system was supposed to be. When creating ICANN, everyone involved (except, of course, for the people who were helicoptered onto the interim Board) thought it was absolutely crazy to create a powerful global institution without a membership to which the organization could be held accountable. If you look at California public benefit corporation law, it is all about how these corporations should be held accountable to their members. The current form of At Large was devised as an ESCAPE from that. The idea that At large is a form of global participation and (more importantly) global accountability is just not defensible; many of the people in ALAC, far from holding the Board accountable, are trying very hard to get onto the board and are very interested in ingratiating themselves to the Board and to GAC. Their incentives are to rise up the organizational ladder, not to keep ICANN accountable. The point about voting is that it gives each individual the right to express _their own_ preference, and it makes that preference count, in the aggregate, in a very clearly measured way. The organizational pyramid that Alejandro helped to create, in contrast, pretends that 3 people represent an entire world region - and one of those people is not even selected by people in that region, but by a Nominating Committee which the ALAC itself selects! Alejandro's contrast of the admitted but fixable flaws of an election does not include any real analysis of the very obvious and fundamentally unfixable flaws in an organizational pyramid scheme that is the At Large. --MM > -----Original Message----- > From: apeake at gmail.com [mailto:apeake at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Adam > Peake > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 2:40 AM > To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org > Subject: Re: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest > > Anyone interested in some history of the at large election might look here: > > A one page summary > report/final/010907abstract.shtml> > > and reports: > > http://web.archive.org/web/20030621172016/http://www.naisproject.org/r > eport/final/execsummaryA4.pdf > > http://web.archive.org/web/20030621172016/http://www.naisproject.org/r > eport/final/naisreportUSLetter.pdf > > At the time, I thought the problems were fixable and ICANN should have > tried a second round, a lot of the problems would not have been hard > to fix. Now I'm much less sure, I think an annual election would be a > massive distraction for the organization and volunteers who already > have too little time. But should not be discounted. A new study as a > new ATRT round starts might be useful. > > Adam -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From karl at cavebear.com Tue Sep 4 18:14:20 2012 From: karl at cavebear.com (Karl Auerbach) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 15:14:20 -0700 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220CF9C@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> <50455BE6.7030802@cavebear.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483DAAEE@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220CF9C@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: <50467D3C.4090307@cavebear.com> For economy I've addressed two emails in the comment below, one from mueller at syr.edu the other from salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com On 09/04/2012 01:13 PM, Milton L Mueller wrote: > If you look at California public benefit corporation law, it is all > about how these corporations should be held accountable to their > members. The current form of At Large was devised as an ESCAPE from > that. Here is ICANN's own analysis. I note that ICANN worked very hard to escape the obligations of accountability and transparency that are imposed by the California laws governing non-profit/public-benefit corporations. http://archive.icann.org/en/meetings/santiago/membership-analysis.htm The exception to these obligations lays in the distinction between a membership organization and a non-membership organization with the key element being "elections". Apart from the fact that ICANN rather transparently tried to escape - or evade - these obligations by characterizing the voting in year 2000 as a "selection" rather than as an "election" one might ask why does the law have this distinction? Consider that there are public-benefit/non-profits such as performing arts groups. Those often hew to the vision of a particular artist and it would not make sense to call those "membership" corporations. ICANN, clearly, is not a performing arts corporation - although sometimes the meetings may take on that flavor. ;-) Perhaps an apt model for what ICANN seems to be trying to accomplish is found in a book by Jonathan Swift. In that book Swift envisions an island floating in the air, independent of the earth, and populated by philosopher kings. (Pardon the crudity in some languages of the name that Swift chose.) > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laputa -------- > salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com wrote: > At Large in itself is not an accountability mechanism ... I would substantially differ with that assessment. If ICANN is not accountable to those for whose benefit it exists, i.e. the public community of internet users, then to whom is it accountable, and how? As it currently stands the only person who clearly has the power to hold ICANN accountable is the Attorney General of California, Kamala Harris. It strikes me that in these matters of internet governance that a body of governance should be subject to a clear, unambiguous, and viable chain of accountability to those for whose benefit that body exists. I would recommend that you take a look at the accountability mechanisms that California does impose on California public-benefit/non-profits that, unlike ICANN, have not tried to use semantic handwaving to try to evade those obligations. Here's the URL again to ICANN's own staff report: http://archive.icann.org/en/meetings/santiago/membership-analysis.htm I do not find these obligations unreasonable. Nor are these obligations unique to California; many, perhaps most, places impose similar responsibilities upon those who claim special legal and taxation privileges and immunities (such as those that accrue to non-profit corporations). --karl-- -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 18:15:02 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 00:15:02 +0200 Subject: [governance] Jordan's Internet Goes Dark Message-ID: http://mideast.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/08/31/jordans_internet_goes_dark With Internet Censorship, restricting freedom of expression on online newspapers, and more recently (last week) increasing gas prices, it seems that Jordan's current prime minister is counting down his days. He is the worst prime minister Jordan has had for quite sometime now. Fahd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From vanda at uol.com.br Tue Sep 4 18:25:36 2012 From: vanda at uol.com.br (Vanda UOL) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 19:25:36 -0300 Subject: RES: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483DAAEE@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> <50455BE6.7030802@cavebear.com>, <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483DAAEE@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> Message-ID: <01e201cd8aec$3b057220$b1105660$@uol.com.br> Despite the personal value of Ivan - Brazil, which he really had, that election was everything but a democratic election. NomCom with its representatives still the best alternative to choose members to the leadership positions inside ICANN. All five at large representatives inside NomCom, elected by their community, has voting mandate while other Advisory Committees inside ICANN has no vote. I also agree with Alejandro here that ICANN did not find yet the best solution for the at-large organization. I believe it is time to call for a review to set up a more balanced bylaws for the regional representations. My 2 cents Vanda De: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] Em nome de Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch Enviada em: terça-feira, 4 de setembro de 2012 02:41 Para: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Chaitanya Dhareshwar; Karl Auerbach Cc: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro Assunto: RE: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest Chaitanya, all, 1. the At-Large election procedure was deprecated because of its serious flaws, which Karl unfortunately fails to mention. They break the most basic principles of democratic election theory. Elections are meant to split a given electorate among options (propositions, parties, or individual candidates.) The At Large election fails to do that. Instead, a candidate like Karl can bring in more voters than, say, the former President of the University of Maryland - not more votes: more voters - and the election result therefore is prescribed. This is like when in older Mexico or in India a party can ferry voters in trucks. Similarly, in the At-Large election Karl so unfairly romanticizes, arguments like "it is time Germany gets its deserved place in governing the Internet" were used by German-speaking media (not only in Germany but also in Austria) and there you are, the European space is taken. The same thing happened in Latin America. In every country there were 100-300 people interested in ICANN who took part in the election. "It is time Brazil gets its deserved place in governing the Internet" was argued by some entities in Brazil, including the ccTLD manager CGI Brazil (Internet Steering Committee), and action was directed even to non-Brazilians. There you get 2000 votes from Brazil. In most cases not a word was heard again from any of the voters so we can be sure that the results were at best a flare-up. We substituted this supposedly ideal mechanism by a more complicated one but which ensures at least some level of trust in who is participating and some accountability and transparency. It hurts when you ask for accountability and transparency from individuals or organizations which are used to asking for it but not for providing it. We continue to struggle to build the At-Large organizational space but are light-years better than with the old "bring your electorate" (not win over your fraction of the electorate) method. Add to that the NomCom, which usually can look much further out, and the At-Large influence in the NomCom. Count also the enormous contributions to deliver the At-Large views made by Roberto Gaetano and Vittorio Bertola. 2. Karl's lawsuit's victory in court had no more result for Karl than a victory in court. He never found enough skeletons in the closets to avenge the fact that the ICANN proponents defeated the Boston Working Group in the bid for "Newco" as the concept-ICANN was known till the organization was formed. I have a long-standing (albeit at times contentious) friendship with Karl, I like a lot of what he does,have learned a lot from him, appreciate his many interests beyond technology and politics (we had a delightful run over the National Gallery in DC once, for example, and ask him about rebuilding old locomotives), and have always been sad that he wasted the opportunity to teach more and contribute more as a good engineer for trying to outlawyer the lawyers. I still expect to see that Karl Auerbach's contributions make a difference. 3. There is something called esprit de corps and/or duty of loyalty to the organization. It is not in conflict with the duty of independence. There is a slight generralization that some non-USians tend to decide for a balance in favor of performing on both instead of privileging individual independence. Your mileage may vary. Maybe it was time for some in this group to find out that some histories are not as one-sided and clear cut as they may seem. Apologies if I bored you (Sala, Fahd, Riaz, Chaitanya, especially.) Yours, Alejandro Pisanty ! !! !!! !!!! NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475 Dr. Alejandro Pisanty UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . _____ Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Chaitanya Dhareshwar [chaitanyabd at gmail.com] Enviado el: lunes, 03 de septiembre de 2012 21:19 Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Karl Auerbach CC: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro Asunto: Re: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest O_O No more public seats!? Gone the voice of reason is..? There's QUITE some detail in your diary Karl. I understand how this gives the public information - but how does this become insurance? Could you elaborate please? -C On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 7:09 AM, Karl Auerbach wrote: On 09/03/2012 03:02 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote: > I am that board member. > > Karl, which seat number was it that you occupied at the time? I don't remember having a number. I was the first (and only) publicly elected board member for the so-called "North American" area. (I use quote marks because I thought it odd that ICANN's "North America" included Greenland but not Mexico.) There were five of these publicly elected seats, one for each of ICANN's geographic regions. ICANN erased all of these seats so that there would never again be a public election. For the most part I thought that the five publicly elected directors were quite good - and in the North American election I felt that every candidate, except perhaps one, was extremely well qualified. Because we all had to endure at least some degree of public selection the election process brought to the fore people who tended to be more opinionated than people who came to their board seats by a "nominating committee" process in which the criteria is sometimes that of choosing the least objectionable, most mainstream, rather than those who might give discomfort or ask too many questions. There were complaints about the election process in that in some areas there was a lot of nationalistic and corporate activity; but that is to be expected when there are democratic processes - the winner often tends to be he/she who is the best organized. (For online elections in these days of social media the value of corporate money and organization does not seem as strong an advantage as it is in more political governmental elections; I hope that this isn't just a transitory or illusory situation.) Here in the US there were seven of us running for the seat. Some you may have heard of - such as Larry Lessig. All were very good and we had a very vibrant election process including face-to-face debates (at Harvard and Stanford universities and several open online debates.) My campaign platform is still online at: http://www.cavebear.com/archive/icann-board/platform.htm Many aspects of that platform remain important, but I'd like to draw your attention to one that is close to my heart: http://www.cavebear.com/archive/icann-board/platform.htm#full-members I regret one aspect of that platform - I misjudged Louis Touton and did not give him the credit he deserved. I also felt that it was important to give to the public the reasons for what I did when I was on the board, so I kept an on-line diary of my decisions. (In order not to step on the toes of others I tried to record my points of view and not to reflect too much about what other board members were thinking - I figured that that was their obligation to perform, or not.) I received a whole lot of subtle flak from ICANN for publishing that diary, although it now seems that what I did back then that was found so objectionable has been adopted to a degree in ICANN's inclusion of a rationale section in its board meeting minutes. That diary is still online at: http://www.cavebear.com/archive/icann-board/diary/index.htm One of the reasons that I maintained that public diary was that I was (and am) quite aware of the tremendous risks of personal liability that hang over every director of a non-profit corporation. Some of these liabilities seem to be such that they can not be protected against by any kind of insurance policy. So, in addition to it simply being "the right thing to do" I created and maintained that diary so that I, should the occasion arise, have means to demonstrate that my acts were legitimately within the "business judgment rule" that protects corporate directors. --karl-- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 18:42:08 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 10:42:08 +1200 Subject: [governance] Jordan's Internet Goes Dark In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: :( Am sorry to hear that....Oh dear, would it work if someone can persuade him to instead utilise social media to generate ideas on how to improve the economy? On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 10:15 AM, Fahd A. Batayneh wrote: > > http://mideast.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/08/31/jordans_internet_goes_dark > > With Internet Censorship, restricting freedom of expression on online > newspapers, and more recently (last week) increasing gas prices, it seems > that Jordan's current prime minister is counting down his days. He is the > worst prime minister Jordan has had for quite sometime now. > > Fahd > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 18:52:20 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 10:52:20 +1200 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: <50467D3C.4090307@cavebear.com> References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> <50455BE6.7030802@cavebear.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483DAAEE@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220CF9C@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <50467D3C.4090307@cavebear.com> Message-ID: > > Snip > > > -------- > > salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@**gmail.comwrote: >> > > > At Large in itself is not an accountability mechanism ... >> > > I would substantially differ with that assessment. If ICANN is not > accountable to those for whose benefit it exists, i.e. the public community > of internet users, then to whom is it accountable, and how? > > If we use your rationale who then comprises of the public community of internet users? There is space for anyone within the broad public community to engage whether they wish to opt and join the Non Commercial Stakeholders or At Large etc? > As it currently stands the only person who clearly has the power to hold > ICANN accountable is the Attorney General of California, Kamala Harris. > > and so does the AG of every other country if you really think about it. Whilst ICANN is a body corporate registered under Californian laws, it can also be seen as a MNC by virtue of its dealings in virtually every country that has a ccTLD or gTLD. That is just one dimension of analysis. The internal checks and balances that are created from the cross constituencies and support organisations also exist to check and balance each other's voices so that everyone's interests in the information infrastructure space is accounted for. > It strikes me that in these matters of internet governance that a body of > governance should be subject to a clear, unambiguous, and viable chain of > accountability to those for whose benefit that body exists. > It already does, last time I check and if it does not, then one can raise it formally through mechanisms provided for within the Bylaws. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From karl at cavebear.com Tue Sep 4 20:00:41 2012 From: karl at cavebear.com (Karl Auerbach) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 17:00:41 -0700 Subject: [governance] ICANN stumbling on a hornet nest In-Reply-To: References: <05kkMMC8pwQQFAuz@internetpolicyagency.com> <504336F8.90809@panamo.eu> <5044E958.1040909@cavebear.com> <50455BE6.7030802@cavebear.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483DAAEE@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220CF9C@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <50467D3C.4090307@cavebear.com> Message-ID: <50469629.6080306@cavebear.com> On 09/04/2012 03:52 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote: > At Large in itself is not an accountability mechanism ... > > > I would substantially differ with that assessment. If ICANN is not > accountable to those for whose benefit it exists, i.e. the public > community of internet users, then to whom is it accountable, and how? > > If we use your rationale who then comprises of the public community of > internet users? > > There is space for anyone within the broad public community to engage > whether they wish to opt and join the Non Commercial Stakeholders or At > Large etc? However, as you said, those are not accountability mechanisms. They have no power to take compel ICANN. We ought not to conflate accountability - which is a power to march before a third party and demand that ICANN do what it is obligated to do - from supplication, and have that third party coerce ICANN to comply. > As it currently stands the only person who clearly has the power to > hold ICANN accountable is the Attorney General of California, Kamala > Harris. > > and so does the AG of every other country if you really think about it. Thinking about it... thinking about it ... thinking about it ... ;-) I disagree. There is a matter called "jurisdiction" and except perhaps for those rather few countries where ICANN has business offices it is unlikely that any country than the US, and within the US the State of California, would find that it has jurisdictional power over ICANN. As you allude there is the notion of jurisdiction based on contacts. However, I very much doubt that more than a handful, if any, national courts would find that TLDs form a basis for jursididiction. And if they did it would most likely only be for matters pertaining to a particular TLD. As for "cross constituencies" and "support organizations" - again that conflates the power to hold accountable with the power to make supplications. Suppose that ICANN violates a law - as it did when it refused to let me, a sitting member of its Board of Directors, inspect its financial records. There is no means that any ICANN constituency or support organization could retain redress. Sure they could ask, but ICANN is free to ignore. > It strikes me that in these matters of internet governance that a > body of governance should be subject to a clear, unambiguous, and > viable chain of accountability to those for whose benefit that body > exists. > > It already does, last time I check and if it does not, then one can > raise it formally through mechanisms provided for within the Bylaws. Again you are conflating supplication with true accountability. Suppose, for instance ICANN simply refuses to seat a liason or ALAC representative. How are you going to force ICANN to meet its obligation to do so? This is not a game of softball and hopes and wishes; this, as I mentioned last night, is a game of power politics. --karl-- -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From kovenronald at aol.com Wed Sep 5 01:43:10 2012 From: kovenronald at aol.com (Koven Ronald) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 01:43:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fwd: [governance] global events in non-democratic countries In-Reply-To: <8CF58F1FC2F34A2-458-6FA3@webmail-d004.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CF58F1FC2F34A2-458-6FA3@webmail-d004.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CF5940776C882B-1250-B6AE@webmail-d141.sysops.aol.com> Dear Oksana Pryhod and All -- I'm not at all sure that you're right that WAN's maintenance of its plan to hold its congress in Kyiv was the right decision. Only time will tell. Yes, it gave you a very good opportunity to demonstrate against the President, but who knows whether he will act to get even with you ? His goons took photos of all of you demonstrating. I heard a fair amount of hypocrisy in the statements about Ukraine at the conference. Not once did anyone mention how the government has been persecuting Yulia T. Was that a self-imposed red line by the conference participants ? I recall the debates over whether to hold a UNESCO conference on press freedom in Kazakhstan 20 years ago. I argued against going there and was told to wait and see, that it would improve things. We went and protested violations of press freedom. Things did improve for 2-3 years, apparently as a direct result. But the government gradually returned to its old habits and the situation now seems to be as bad or worse than when we went 20 years ago. And now the Kazakh government is about to hold a new conference to commemorate the one from 20 years ago -- in other words, they are wrapping its current repressive policies in the legitimacy that we gave them by going there back then. We had the same debate over holding the World Summit on the Information Society in Tunis. I do think that going there and letting the world see the real nature of the Ben Ali regime did prepare world opinion for the need for a revolution, even if freedom of expression isn't doing so well in Tunisia now. So, I'm not at all sure that holding the next Internet Governance Forum in Azerbaijan will be a net plus. On balance, I think we shouldn't be lending our legitimacy to dictatorships. They compete to get us to hold conferences in their countries precisely because they mean to use us to strengthen their grip on power. It doesn't always work out that way, but sometimes it does achieve exactly what the dictators wanted. Best regards, Rony Koven, World Press Freedom Committee -----Original Message----- From: Koven Ronald To: oprytula ; oprytula ; idmytrychyn Cc: sana.pryhod Sent: Tue, Sep 4, 2012 10:21 pm Subject: Fwd: [governance] global events in non-democratic countries FYI, one of the editors in the delegation that met with the President today told me that he replied to the criticisms by saying that Ukraine is "a country in transition." As a Balkan colleague remarked uopoin hearing that, "Maybe he meant 'in transition' from democracy." Buzi, Rony Koven -----Original Message----- From: Oksana Prykhodko To: IG Caucus Sent: Tue, Sep 4, 2012 6:46 pm Subject: [governance] global events in non-democratic countries Dear all, I would like to add new food to our old discussion about propriety to hold international events in non-democratic countries. Kiev just now is hosting World Newspaper Congress, with participation of the most influential editors and journalists from the whole world. Yesterday Jacob Mathew, President of the World Association of Newspapers and News Publishers (WAN-IFRA), gave excellent analysis of media situation in Ukraine, underlined main threats to media freedom. Then Ukrainian president Victor Yanulovich gave his interpretation of the same situation, stating, that there are no problems for the freedom of speech in Ukraine. During his speech 12 Ukrainian journalists and media activists (I was among them) stood up with critical banners. And were brutally attacked by Yanukovich securities. It was excellent illustration to his words, and received world-wide coverage (except of Ukrainian TV channels). Today 14 the most influential editors met Yanukovich and demanded to investigate this incident and not to persecute protesters. I really highly appreciate support of WAN-IFRA and all lessons, that it gave to Ukraine. And I hope that IGF in Baku will be also of great use to Azeris. Best regards, Oksana http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2012/09/03/world/europe/03reuters-ukraine-journalists-protest.html?_r=2&ref=politics http://www.wan-ifra.org/articles/2012/09/06/press-freedom-an-own-goal-for-ukraine ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 02:14:09 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 08:14:09 +0200 Subject: [governance] global events in non-democratic countries In-Reply-To: <8CF5940776C882B-1250-B6AE@webmail-d141.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CF58F1FC2F34A2-458-6FA3@webmail-d004.sysops.aol.com> <8CF5940776C882B-1250-B6AE@webmail-d141.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Koven, On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 7:43 AM, Koven Ronald wrote: > (snip) > > We had the same debate over holding the World Summit on the Information > Society in Tunis. I do think that going there and letting the world see the > real nature of the Ben Ali regime did prepare world opinion for the need > for a revolution, *even if freedom of expression isn't doing so well in > Tunisia now.* > On what basis did you base these claims? Fahd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 02:18:42 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 08:18:42 +0200 Subject: [governance] Jordan's Internet Goes Dark In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I am assuming that the law will not last long and the next Jordanian PM shall revert the decision (reverting decisions in Jordan is VERY common, and that is why many projects never gain any momentum over the long run). Fahd On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 12:42 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > :( Am sorry to hear that....Oh dear, would it work if someone can persuade > him to instead utilise social media to generate ideas on how to improve the > economy? > > On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 10:15 AM, Fahd A. Batayneh > wrote: > >> >> http://mideast.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/08/31/jordans_internet_goes_dark >> >> With Internet Censorship, restricting freedom of expression on online >> newspapers, and more recently (last week) increasing gas prices, it seems >> that Jordan's current prime minister is counting down his days. He is the >> worst prime minister Jordan has had for quite sometime now. >> >> Fahd >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From kovenronald at aol.com Wed Sep 5 02:31:09 2012 From: kovenronald at aol.com (Koven Ronald) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 02:31:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [governance] global events in non-democratic countries In-Reply-To: References: <8CF58F1FC2F34A2-458-6FA3@webmail-d004.sysops.aol.com> <8CF5940776C882B-1250-B6AE@webmail-d141.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CF59472BFFDABE-1250-B82E@webmail-d141.sysops.aol.com> And on what basis would you contend the contrary ? I'm an active member of the Tunisia Monitoring Group, and we have noted the reluctance of the new authorities to enact meaningful free speech/press freedom measures.I refer you to various TMG alerts on the situation. The resignation in frustration of Kamel Labidi as head of the official body formed to promote media freedom measures speaks volumes. He is about to testify on the deterioration of the situation before the UN Human Rights Council in Geneva. When I was in Tunis for World Press Freedom Day this May, lack of official commitment to furthering media freedom was obvious. There are numerous well-documented concrete signs and examples. Bests, Rony Koven -----Original Message----- From: Fahd A. Batayneh To: Koven Ronald Cc: IG Caucus Sent: Wed, Sep 5, 2012 8:14 am Subject: Re: [governance] global events in non-democratic countries Koven, On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 7:43 AM, Koven Ronald wrote: (snip) We had the same debate over holding the World Summit on the Information Society in Tunis. I do think that going there and letting the world see the real nature of the Ben Ali regime did prepare world opinion for the need for a revolution, even if freedom of expression isn't doing so well in Tunisia now. On what basis did you base these claims? Fahd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From sana.pryhod at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 02:33:39 2012 From: sana.pryhod at gmail.com (Oksana Prykhodko) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 09:33:39 +0300 Subject: [governance] global events in non-democratic countries In-Reply-To: <8CF5940776C882B-1250-B6AE@webmail-d141.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CF58F1FC2F34A2-458-6FA3@webmail-d004.sysops.aol.com> <8CF5940776C882B-1250-B6AE@webmail-d141.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Dear Roni, Thank you very much for your letter. I fully understand your concerns and share some of them. Yes, the fact, that we showed our posters to stop censorship, will not stop it. But we demonstrated, first of all - sorry, not we, but Yanukovich gangsters demonstrated, that Yanukovich lies, when he says, that there is no censorship in Ukraine at all. Second - our faces, names, e-mail addresses and telephone numbers are known for Yanukovich regime very well (they wiretapped us, reviewed our correspondence, checked our personals). But now our faces and names are known to a lot of people throughout the world. I am sure that they will not imprison me for this action. But they really can imprison me, for example, for Adobe Connect on my PC, claiming, that they just fulfill their "international obligations" (even if this Adobe is open). And I hope, a lot of people then can understand real reasons for it. Third, about Timoshenko and so on. No boycott or international isolation will stop Yanukovich and his banda - only bank accounts blocking and no visa for them and their families from international community and real protests within Ukraine. That is why it is very sad, that World Newspaper Congress has very high fee for participation, and very few Ukrainians could join it to hear about Mexican or even Russian journalists and media activists and to establish personal contacts with foreign colleagues. You can try to follow media coverage of WAN-IFRA in Ukraine to understand, that Ukrainians did not receive adequate information about it at all from national media. But they read a lot in foreign media. Hoping to see more such events in Ukraine and in other postSoviet countries, Best regards, Oksana Prykhodko, director of iNGO European Media Platform 2012/9/5 Koven Ronald : > Dear Oksana Pryhod and All -- > > I'm not at all sure that you're right that WAN's maintenance of its plan to > hold its congress in Kyiv was the right decision. Only time will tell. Yes, > it gave you a very good opportunity to demonstrate against the President, > but who knows whether he will act to get even with you ? His goons took > photos of all of you demonstrating. > > I heard a fair amount of hypocrisy in the statements about Ukraine at the > conference. Not once did anyone mention how the government has been > persecuting Yulia T. Was that a self-imposed red line by the conference > participants ? > > I recall the debates over whether to hold a UNESCO conference on press > freedom in Kazakhstan 20 years ago. I argued against going there and was > told to wait and see, that it would improve things. We went and protested > violations of press freedom. Things did improve for 2-3 years, apparently as > a direct result. But the government gradually returned to its old habits and > the situation now seems to be as bad or worse than when we went 20 years > ago. And now the Kazakh government is about to hold a new conference to > commemorate the one from 20 years ago -- in other words, they are wrapping > its current repressive policies in the legitimacy that we gave them by going > there back then. > > We had the same debate over holding the World Summit on the Information > Society in Tunis. I do think that going there and letting the world see the > real nature of the Ben Ali regime did prepare world opinion for the need for > a revolution, even if freedom of expression isn't doing so well in Tunisia > now. > > So, I'm not at all sure that holding the next Internet Governance Forum in > Azerbaijan will be a net plus. On balance, I think we shouldn't be lending > our legitimacy to dictatorships. They compete to get us to hold conferences > in their countries precisely because they mean to use us to strengthen their > grip on power. It doesn't always work out that way, but sometimes it does > achieve exactly what the dictators wanted. > > Best regards, > > Rony Koven, World Press Freedom Committee > > -----Original Message----- > From: Koven Ronald > To: oprytula ; oprytula ; > idmytrychyn > Cc: sana.pryhod > Sent: Tue, Sep 4, 2012 10:21 pm > Subject: Fwd: [governance] global events in non-democratic countries > > FYI, one of the editors in the delegation that met with the President today > told me that he replied to the criticisms by saying that Ukraine is "a > country in transition." > > As a Balkan colleague remarked uopoin hearing that, "Maybe he meant 'in > transition' from democracy." > > Buzi, Rony Koven > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Oksana Prykhodko > To: IG Caucus > Sent: Tue, Sep 4, 2012 6:46 pm > Subject: [governance] global events in non-democratic countries > > Dear all, > > I would like to add new food to our old discussion about propriety to > hold international events in non-democratic countries. > > Kiev just now is hosting World Newspaper Congress, with participation > of the most influential editors and journalists from the whole world. > > Yesterday Jacob Mathew, President of the World Association of > Newspapers and News Publishers (WAN-IFRA), gave excellent analysis of > media situation in Ukraine, underlined main threats to media freedom. > Then Ukrainian president Victor Yanulovich gave his interpretation of > the same situation, stating, that there are no problems for the > freedom of speech in Ukraine. > During his speech 12 Ukrainian journalists and media activists (I was > among them) stood up with critical banners. And were brutally attacked > by Yanukovich securities. > > It was excellent illustration to his words, and received world-wide > coverage (except of Ukrainian TV channels). > > Today 14 the most influential editors met Yanukovich and demanded to > investigate this incident and not to persecute protesters. > > I really highly appreciate support of WAN-IFRA and all lessons, that > it gave to Ukraine. And I hope that IGF in Baku will be also of great > use to Azeris. > > Best regards, > Oksana > > http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2012/09/03/world/europe/03reuters-ukraine-journalists-protest.html?_r=2&ref=politics > http://www.wan-ifra.org/articles/2012/09/06/press-freedom-an-own-goal-for-ukraine > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 02:33:57 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 08:33:57 +0200 Subject: [governance] global events in non-democratic countries In-Reply-To: <8CF59472BFFDABE-1250-B82E@webmail-d141.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CF58F1FC2F34A2-458-6FA3@webmail-d004.sysops.aol.com> <8CF5940776C882B-1250-B6AE@webmail-d141.sysops.aol.com> <8CF59472BFFDABE-1250-B82E@webmail-d141.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Thank you Koven. I withdraw the term "claims" from my previous e-mail. Fahd On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 8:31 AM, Koven Ronald wrote: > And on what basis would you contend the contrary ? > > I'm an active member of the Tunisia Monitoring Group, and we have noted > the reluctance of the new authorities to enact meaningful free speech/press > freedom measures.I refer you to various TMG alerts on the situation. The > resignation in frustration of Kamel Labidi as head of the official body > formed to promote media freedom measures speaks volumes. He is about to > testify on the deterioration of the situation before the UN Human Rights > Council in Geneva. When I was in Tunis for World Press Freedom Day this > May, lack of official commitment to furthering media freedom was obvious. > There are numerous well-documented concrete signs and examples. > > Bests, Rony Koven > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Fahd A. Batayneh > To: Koven Ronald > Cc: IG Caucus > Sent: Wed, Sep 5, 2012 8:14 am > Subject: Re: [governance] global events in non-democratic countries > > Koven, > > On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 7:43 AM, Koven Ronald wrote: > >> (snip) >> >> We had the same debate over holding the World Summit on the Information >> Society in Tunis. I do think that going there and letting the world see the >> real nature of the Ben Ali regime did prepare world opinion for the need >> for a revolution, *even if freedom of expression isn't doing so well in >> Tunisia now.* >> > > On what basis did you base these claims? > > Fahd > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From kovenronald at aol.com Wed Sep 5 02:56:33 2012 From: kovenronald at aol.com (Koven Ronald) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 02:56:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [governance] global events in non-democratic countries In-Reply-To: References: <8CF58F1FC2F34A2-458-6FA3@webmail-d004.sysops.aol.com> <8CF5940776C882B-1250-B6AE@webmail-d141.sysops.aol.com> <8CF59472BFFDABE-1250-B82E@webmail-d141.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CF594AB7D16D52-1250-B8DC@webmail-d141.sysops.aol.com> Dear Fahd -- Here below is the latest Tunisia Monitoring Group statement on the situation. I had argued internally that it was too long and detailed for an exercise in public communication, but it does provide the chapter and verse to answer your questions on what we base our concerns. It is also available in Arabic and French on the TMG web site. Bests, Rony Koven Old-style repression resurfaces to threaten freedom of expression in new Tunisia, says IFEX-TMG A hundred Tunisian journalists gathered on 22 August in the Kasbah, Tunis to criticising appointments in the public media. (El Watan) (IFEX-TMG) - 29 August 2012 - In the wake of recent government appointments to heads of prominent media outlets, as well as attacks on journalists, writers and artists, the International Freedom of Expression Exchange Tunisia Monitoring Group (IFEX-TMG), a coalition of 21 IFEX members, expresses serious concern over what has been a wave of setbacks for freedom of expression in Tunisia. The IFEX-TMG strongly condemns the increasing use of violence and threats against journalists, artists and writers by police and ultra-conservative groups, and the government's failure to put an end to the impunity of those carrying out these attacks. Furthermore, members of the media are in the midst of an ongoing battle to safeguard the freedoms gained during the democratic transition period, after the revolution. Lack of transparency and consultation On 22 August 2012, the Tunisian government appointed Imane Bahroun as the head of National Television and Lotfi Touati, a former security officer, as director of media group Dar Assabah, the company which publishes two influential daily newspapers and a weekly magazine. The government had relieved former Dar Assabah director, Kamel Sammari, of his duties despite plans by the company's board to discuss the issue on 15 September 2012. The move was strongly condemned by journalists and public figures, who protested outside the building for several days and ran blank front pages in Assabbah and Le Temps in solidarity. The National Syndicate for Tunisian Journalists (SNJT) has strongly condemned the removal and has since called for a strike on 15 September 2012 to express its concerns about the erosion of media freedoms. Both of these new appointments were made without consultation with relevant media bodies such as the SNJT, who along with several political parties, rejected the decision as lacking transparency. This is the second time the government has appointed directors of public media unilaterally and without consultation, after appointments were made to public service media in January 2012. These were later rescinded after a public outcry. The IFEX-TMG considers the appointments a setback on promises made by the government to act transparently and to safeguard media freedom. "Instead of introducing fair media laws after proper consultation, the government has created a legislative dead zone, and given itself sole freedom to exploit it," said Rohan Jayasekera of Index on Censorship, a member of the IFEX-TMG. Arrests and intimidation in the workplace On 25 August 2012, the Court of Appeal in Tunis issued an order to arrest Sami Fehri, the director of Attounisia TV station on charges of financial impropriety at a production company he co-owned that was contracted by the national TV station prior to the revolution. His arrest came two days after he was told the government was annoyed by his satirical programme the Political Logic, in which he criticised the government and Ennahda party leaders including Rachid Al-Ghannouchi. Fehri declared before his arrest that Lutfi Zaitoun, the Prime Minister's media advisor, called him and asked him to suspend the programme. If convicted, he faces up to ten years in prison. According to Fehri's lawyer, the arrest violated the Tunisian Penal Code and the accused was not given the right to defend himself nor to be informed about the charges against him. “The lawyer's explanation shows the case is purely political,” said the Tunis Centre for Freedom of Press. Other journalists have been pressured at work. On 21 August 2012, Boutheina Gouia, who presents the News and Rumour programme on national radio, was informed by her boss that she was suspended for hosting SNJT officials whom she invited to discuss the latest appointment of managers to the national TV and Assabah newspaper. The guests on the programme criticised the government's approach to dealing with the public media. “There has been a change in the attitude of employees with the national radio, it looks like a policy of intimidation has succeeded,” Gouia told the IFEX-TMG. As part of the pattern of intimidation, previously on 6 July 2012, Nadia Al-Hadawi, a journalist at the national radio, was prevented from entering the building where she was supposed to present her morning programme with well-known writer Naziha Rjiba, a critic of the government. The IFEX-TMG says the suspension of Gouia appears to be an arbitrary act designed to punish her for exercising her right to freedom of expression, and an attempt to deter others from criticising government actions. Physical and verbal attacks by police and Salafist groups The IFEX-TMG is also alarmed at a number of recent physical and verbal attacks on journalists that have taken place in Tunis and other cities, coming at the hands of police, union members and ultra-conservative religious groups (also referred to as Salafists.) On 6 August 2012, Monji Akasha, a journalist with Sfax Radio, was attacked by some of the Housing and Planning Office's union members while covering strikes in the Sfax area. Also on 6 August, journalist Sihem al-Mohammedi and photographer Abdul Hamid Al-Omary from Al-Hiwar Attounisi TV station, journalist Nai'ma Al-Sharmeeti from Arabiske TV station, and journalist Seif Eddin Al-Ameri from Akhir Khabar online news site were physically attacked by police on Avenue Bourguiba while covering the violent dispersal of protestors by police officers. Al-Omary suffered injuries to his legs after being badly beaten by the police. Around the same time, on 5 August, Tunisian blogger Lina ben Mhenni was reportedly deliberately targeted and beaten by police during a demonstration on Avenue Bourguiba. On 14 August 2012, ultra-conservative Islamists attacked the comedian Lutfi Al-Abdali and prevented him from presenting his show in the town of Manzil Bourguiba after they claimed he was offensive to Islam. On 23 August 2012, a group of Salafist men physically attacked and severely beat prominent poet Sghir Awlad Ahmed after he appeared on a programme on Attounisia TV in which he criticised Ennahda and its leaders. Afterwards, Awlad Ahmed said, “No officers or officials will be saved from the bombs of my poetry and prose if they continue to turn a blind eye to such attacks.” On 24 August 2012, poet Mohammed Al-Hadi Al-Waslati was attacked by a group of Salafist men in Tunis. He was later taken to hospital and is still in a critical condition. In an interview broadcast on 25 August 2012 on Express FM Radio, the Minister of Culture, Mehdi Mabrouk, stated that the phenomenon of Salafist attacks has to be confronted but claimed the situation was under control. This contradicts the reality that attacks are reportedly on the increase. The IFEX-TMG calls on the authorities, including the Ministry of Culture, to investigate these attacks and bring the perpetrators to justice in order to create a safe environment in which journalists, artists and writers can work freely, without threat or censorship. The IFEX-TMG once again calls on the government to implement Decree 2011-115 (also known as the new Press Code), especially article 14, which guarantees the protection of journalists from harassment and attacks and criminalises any act of violence against them. “We think that the government is buying time with too many promises and no actions. We are worried about freedom of the press in Tunisia. Many factors indicate that that there is a setback regarding freedom of expression. Attacks on writers, journalists and artists continue without any punishment or action. This situation takes us back to 1988 when Ben Ali had a U-turn on freedom of expression. We must fight against that,” says SNJT Chair Najiba Hamrouni. The IFEX-TMG states that by implementing the media laws which came into force in November 2011, better safeguards would be put in place to protect freedom of expression. It therefore urges the government to implement Decree 2011-115 and Decree 2011-116, which laid the groundwork for a newly independent broadcast media with the creation of the Independent High Authority for Audiovisual Communications (HAICA), which will have the power to appoint directors of the public media. IFEX Tunisia Monitoring Group Virginie Jouan, Chair on behalf of the World Association of Newspapers and News Publishers (WAN-IFRA) c/o campaigns (@) ifex.org http://www.facebook.com/IFEXTMG @IFEXTMG Arabic Network for Human Rights Information ARTICLE 19 Bahrain Center for Human Rights Cairo Institute for Human Rights Studies Canadian Journalists for Free Expression Cartoonists Rights Network International Egyptian Organization for Human Rights Freedom House Index on Censorship International Federation of Journalists International Federation of Library Associations and Institutions International Press Institute International Publishers Association Journaliste en danger Maharat Foundation Media Institute of Southern Africa Norwegian PEN World Association of Community Radio Broadcasters - AMARC World Association of Newspapers and News Publishers World Press Freedom Committee Writers in Prison Committee, PEN International -----Original Message----- From: Fahd A. Batayneh To: Koven Ronald Cc: IG Caucus Sent: Wed, Sep 5, 2012 8:34 am Subject: Re: [governance] global events in non-democratic countries Thank you Koven. I withdraw the term "claims" from my previous e-mail. Fahd On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 8:31 AM, Koven Ronald wrote: And on what basis would you contend the contrary ? I'm an active member of the Tunisia Monitoring Group, and we have noted the reluctance of the new authorities to enact meaningful free speech/press freedom measures.I refer you to various TMG alerts on the situation. The resignation in frustration of Kamel Labidi as head of the official body formed to promote media freedom measures speaks volumes. He is about to testify on the deterioration of the situation before the UN Human Rights Council in Geneva. When I was in Tunis for World Press Freedom Day this May, lack of official commitment to furthering media freedom was obvious. There are numerous well-documented concrete signs and examples. Bests, Rony Koven -----Original Message----- From: Fahd A. Batayneh To: Koven Ronald Cc: IG Caucus Sent: Wed, Sep 5, 2012 8:14 am Subject: Re: [governance] global events in non-democratic countries Koven, On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 7:43 AM, Koven Ronald wrote: (snip) We had the same debate over holding the World Summit on the Information Society in Tunis. I do think that going there and letting the world see the real nature of the Ben Ali regime did prepare world opinion for the need for a revolution, even if freedom of expression isn't doing so well in Tunisia now. On what basis did you base these claims? Fahd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 13830 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3919 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From baudouin.schombe at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 04:24:41 2012 From: baudouin.schombe at gmail.com (Baudouin Schombe) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 09:24:41 +0100 Subject: [governance] Visa letters for Baku are being sent. I have received one In-Reply-To: <1346698076.15752.YahooMailNeo@web130106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <1346698076.15752.YahooMailNeo@web130106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hello Nnenna, Good news for you. This is the second time I introduce my request and still no response. I wait. Baudouin 2012/9/3 Nnenna > Hi people, > > I reveived: > > "Hello, > > > pls. find attached the respective invitation letter. Looking forward to > see you in Baku. > > -- > Best Regards, > > > Murad Maksudov > IGF Host Country Secretariat, > Visa Department > +994 70 2100900" > > FYI > > > > > Nnenna Nwakanma | Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG | Consultants > Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development > Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax 224 26471 |Mob. 07416820 > Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065| http://www.nnenna.org > nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 | nnennaorg.blogspot.com > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN CENTRE AFRICAIN D'ECHANGE CULTUREL/ ACADEMIE DES TIC FACILITATEUR GAID/AFRIQUE Membre At-Large Member NCSG Member email:baudouin.schombe at gmail.com baudouin.schombe at ticafrica.net tél:+243998983491 skype:b.schombe wite web:http://webmail.ticafrica.net blog:http://akimambo.unblog.fr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 04:37:26 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2012 11:37:26 +0300 Subject: [governance] global events in non-democratic countries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50470F46.4060806@gmail.com> To this we must add the coverage of systemic issues to the critique of the more common and formally analysed aspects of freedom of expression (repression, censorship, advertising control impacts, etc) namely, the coverage of issues from different perspectives... an example is a case in point: of the major financial and mainstream media outlets few if any were attuned to the systemic risks posed by derivatives and other shenanigans of the big banks... and this in the context of where they WERE following the money... in other words, press freedom needs to be contextualised in the social, productive, cultural relations of a society (and to anticipate possible crits - this is not an excuse for violations of universal human rights; even the European Union tolerates difference with its legal concept of "margin of appreciation"...) On 2012/09/04 07:45 PM, Oksana Prykhodko wrote: > Dear all, > > I would like to add new food to our old discussion about propriety to > hold international events in non-democratic countries. > > Kiev just now is hosting World Newspaper Congress, with participation > of the most influential editors and journalists from the whole world. > > Yesterday Jacob Mathew, President of the World Association of > Newspapers and News Publishers (WAN-IFRA), gave excellent analysis of > media situation in Ukraine, underlined main threats to media freedom. > Then Ukrainian president Victor Yanulovich gave his interpretation of > the same situation, stating, that there are no problems for the > freedom of speech in Ukraine. > During his speech 12 Ukrainian journalists and media activists (I was > among them) stood up with critical banners. And were brutally attacked > by Yanukovich securities. > > It was excellent illustration to his words, and received world-wide > coverage (except of Ukrainian TV channels). > > Today 14 the most influential editors met Yanukovich and demanded to > investigate this incident and not to persecute protesters. > > I really highly appreciate support of WAN-IFRA and all lessons, that > it gave to Ukraine. And I hope that IGF in Baku will be also of great > use to Azeris. > > Best regards, > Oksana > > http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2012/09/03/world/europe/03reuters-ukraine-journalists-protest.html?_r=2&ref=politics > http://www.wan-ifra.org/articles/2012/09/06/press-freedom-an-own-goal-for-ukraine > -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 04:42:54 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2012 11:42:54 +0300 Subject: [governance] ICANN's legal status In-Reply-To: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220CD2E@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> References: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220CD2E@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: <5047108E.1080506@gmail.com> Thanks for the great info and disclaimer! Just to note that the derivation of this opinion from the facts is one in which we may disagree, as this depends on one's predilection. Unless cautiously stated (not necessary on this list) this kind of view is apt for abuse to forestall evolutionary change. Immunities can and certainly are abused (e.g. Ban Ki Moon was the first SG to sit in on military planning for the bombardment of Libya) but there are reasons for the immunity - once an organisation is perceived as carrying out _legitimate_ international functions these immunities are a means to get the job done. On getting many countries to agree on anything, well global financial liberalisation (pre-crisis and even now) is continuing unabated - so I guess there is optimism of a sort. Riaz On 2012/09/04 07:19 PM, Milton L Mueller wrote: > However, as I have emphasized again and again, California Corp. law > does not dictate what policies ICANN makes, it only structures the > organizational form of the corporation that runs the policy > development process. As legal frameworks go, it could be better or it > could be worse. As such, those who insist that it would be more > legitimate and accountable under international law are almost > certainly mistaken, given that governments and international law would > give the corporation all kinds of immunities that would actually > insulate it from certain forms of legal accountability and public > input. Not to mention the severe geopolitics that would be involved in > getting 150 governments to agree on anything. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 05:27:04 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2012 12:27:04 +0300 Subject: [governance] Obama platform: 'Open' internet, strong IP protection Message-ID: <50471AE8.7000107@gmail.com> Obama platform: 'Open' internet, strong IP protection Democrats duck specific net neutrality pledge By Iain Thomson in San Francisco . Get more from this author Posted in Government , 4th September 2012 20:54 GMT The Democratic Party has published its platform for the coming election with a nod to net neutrality rules, support for tougher IP protection, and a commitment to get 98 per cent of the population onto wireless broadband. The 40-page document devotes just a single sentence to net neutrality: "President Obama is strongly committed to protecting an open Internet that fosters investment, innovation, creativity, consumer choice, and free speech, unfettered by censorship or undue violations of privacy." Given the complexities of the issues involved, this covers a multitude of potential sins. Most telecommunications providers are very keen to sponsor new investment by slicing and pricing bandwidth to the bigger payers, for example, but that hardly constitutes "open" in the minds of many. Supporting free speech and opposing censorship are noble principles, although hardly earth-shattering demonstrations of political courage -- but the devil is in the details. There's no clear support for the current FCC net-neutrality rules, Chairman Genachowski's vaunted "third way " that the Republican platform , published last week, extensively trashed. In addition, the EFF will certainly be curious as to exactly what constitutes "undue violations of privacy." In contrast to its brevity on internet freedoms, the platform document goes to comparatively great lengths to support the rights of intellectual property holders. While the administration wants to look at voluntary regulation that "supports the free flow of information," it's also promising an increasing crackdown on IP violations and the protection of America's trade secrets. The platform says that seizures of fake critical technology are up 200 per cent, and that the Department of Justice is aggressively going after those who seek to steal or counterfeit. Kim Dotcom and the New Zealand police would certainly agree. To be fair, the current administration has taken some interesting decisions on this front. White House disapproval with SOPA and PIPA was helpful in stalling those bills, and it has threatened a veto of CISPA cybersecurity laws over privacy protections. Then again, the administration still hasn't totally given up on ACTA yet, and the Trans Pacific Partnership negotiations are worrying many . On the infrastructure side, the platform commits to getting 98 per cent of the US population on wireless broadband, but no specific timescale is mentioned. The auction of spare wireless spectrum will be accelerated by having existing holders trade their allowances, as opposed to the Republican platform of selling spectrum off to the highest bidder. "Democrats know that the United States must preserve our leadership in the Internet economy," the platform states. "We will ensure that America has a 21st century digital infrastructure -- robust wired and wireless broadband capability, a smarter electrical grid, and upgraded information technology infrastructure in key sectors such as health care and education." Meanwhile, on cybersecurity the platform points out that this administration has made positive steps, included creating the first military command dedicated to cybersecurity and auditing federal government vulnerabilities. The platform commits to setting up national and international security partnerships and doing more with private sector sources to lock down critical infrastructure. Apart from that, there was very little mention of technology in the platform, which largely focused on ways to get the economy moving again. The next Mars mission, the static seismic InSight mission scheduled for 2016, will go ahead, and there'll be more support for science and technology teaching. Based on the two party's platforms, neither has really made many firm commitments one way or the other -- which is exactly what you'd expect with political commitments. The Republicans are vocal on what's wrong with the current system (pretty much everything, they say), and offer a few solutions in the form of public/private partnership projects with industry and "reform " of regulations -- with a legislative chainsaw. Meanwhile, in the Democratic world there are a lot of high ideals but very little in practical terms of how to get there, other than the spectrum trading system currently stalled in Congress. The cybersecurity stuff looks good, but one major hack and that could well turn into a liability. ® -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From bavouc at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 05:35:54 2012 From: bavouc at gmail.com (Martial Bavou[Private Business Account]) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 10:35:54 +0100 Subject: [governance] Visa letters for Baku are being sent. I have received one In-Reply-To: References: <1346698076.15752.YahooMailNeo@web130106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi I received this one week back, make sure you mail Visa Inquiries ; and visainquiries at igf2012.az ; for reminding Regards From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Baudouin Schombe Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 9:25 AM To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Nnenna Cc: Baudouin Schombe Subject: Re: [governance] Visa letters for Baku are being sent. I have received one Hello Nnenna, Good news for you. This is the second time I introduce my request and still no response. I wait. Baudouin 2012/9/3 Nnenna Hi people, I reveived: "Hello, pls. find attached the respective invitation letter. Looking forward to see you in Baku. -- Best Regards, Murad Maksudov IGF Host Country Secretariat, Visa Department +994 70 2100900" FYI Nnenna Nwakanma | Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG | Consultants Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax 224 26471 |Mob. 07416820 Ghana: +233 249561345 | Nigeria: +234 8101887065 | http://www.nnenna.org nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 | nnennaorg.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -- SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN CENTRE AFRICAIN D'ECHANGE CULTUREL/ ACADEMIE DES TIC FACILITATEUR GAID/AFRIQUE Membre At-Large Member NCSG Member email:baudouin.schombe at gmail.com baudouin.schombe at ticafrica.net tél:+243998983491 skype:b.schombe wite web:http://webmail.ticafrica.net blog:http://akimambo.unblog.fr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fouadbajwa at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 05:43:05 2012 From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Bajwa) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 14:43:05 +0500 Subject: [governance] Obama platform: 'Open' internet, strong IP protection In-Reply-To: <50471AE8.7000107@gmail.com> References: <50471AE8.7000107@gmail.com> Message-ID: Why worry when we know the political drama and its outcomes. SOPA, PIPA, ACTA and all that and now this, makes me smile and see more clearly why the WCIT/ITRs to other countries.....we know to a great deal who is committed to what in the US political landscape so why do our buzzers go off at the very sight of such "grab anything while you can" election year issues abuse? -- FoO-da-Bytes! On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 2:27 PM, Riaz K Tayob wrote: > Obama platform: 'Open' internet, strong IP protection > > Democrats duck specific net neutrality pledge > > By Iain Thomson in San Francisco • Get more from this author > > Posted in Government, 4th September 2012 20:54 GMT > > The Democratic Party has published its platform for the coming election with > a nod to net neutrality rules, support for tougher IP protection, and a > commitment to get 98 per cent of the population onto wireless broadband. > > The 40-page document devotes just a single sentence to net neutrality: > "President Obama is strongly committed to protecting an open Internet that > fosters investment, innovation, creativity, consumer choice, and free > speech, unfettered by censorship or undue violations of privacy." > -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From skiden at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 05:53:39 2012 From: skiden at gmail.com (Sarah Kiden) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 12:53:39 +0300 Subject: [governance] Visa letters for Baku are being sent. I have received one In-Reply-To: References: <1346698076.15752.YahooMailNeo@web130106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hello Baudouin, I hope you are well. I think you should be patient and you should receive your letter soon. The letters are being prepared, signed and scanned individually and I am guessing it could take some time though you should be able to receive your letter real soon. I received mine after about a week of receiving an email informing me that my request had been accepted for processing. Regards, Sarah On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 11:24 AM, Baudouin Schombe < baudouin.schombe at gmail.com> wrote: > Hello Nnenna, > > Good news for you. This is the second time I introduce my request and still > no response. > I wait. > Baudouin > > 2012/9/3 Nnenna > >> Hi people, >> >> I reveived: >> >> "Hello, >> >> >> pls. find attached the respective invitation letter. Looking forward to >> see you in Baku. >> >> -- >> Best Regards, >> >> >> Murad Maksudov >> IGF Host Country Secretariat, >> Visa Department >> +994 70 2100900" >> >> FYI >> >> >> >> >> Nnenna Nwakanma | Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG | Consultants >> Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development >> Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax 224 26471 |Mob. 07416820 >> Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065| http://www.nnenna.org >> nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 | nnennaorg.blogspot.com >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > > -- > SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN > CENTRE AFRICAIN D'ECHANGE CULTUREL/ > ACADEMIE DES TIC > FACILITATEUR GAID/AFRIQUE Membre > At-Large Member > NCSG Member > > email:baudouin.schombe at gmail.com > baudouin.schombe at ticafrica.net > tél:+243998983491 > skype:b.schombe > wite web:http://webmail.ticafrica.net > blog:http://akimambo.unblog.fr > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From nb at bollow.ch Wed Sep 5 06:24:45 2012 From: nb at bollow.ch (Norbert Bollow) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 12:24:45 +0200 Subject: [governance] Caribbean Internet Governance Forum [Lessons the world can learn] #Enhanced Cooperation In-Reply-To: <20120904140725.334619f0@quill.bollow.ch> References: <20120904140725.334619f0@quill.bollow.ch> Message-ID: <20120905122445.66d492d7@quill.bollow.ch> Norbert Bollow wrote: > "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" > wrote: > > For those interested in seeing "enhanced cooperation" in action, > > please download a copy of the Caribbean Internet Governance > > Framework. You will see very clear the values based engagement that > > is apparent in the collaborative manner in which they are engaging. > > Is there a direct link to the document (that does't require > registering first?) As a matter of fact you can't even "register" anymore, but the framework document (both the released version from 2009 and the current draft for a new version) seems to be available from http://www.ctu.int/internet-governance Greetings, Norbert -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From gpaque at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 14:51:28 2012 From: gpaque at gmail.com (Ginger Paque) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 13:51:28 -0500 Subject: [governance] Choice of venue for meetings Message-ID: I have been wondering how/why venues are chosen for global meetings. Obviously, a host country must offer, and not every country will be willing to invest the time, money and energy into the work involved, so options may be limited. There are so many pros and cons for the topics/principles, the host and the participants--it is mind-boggling. A (more or less) recent blog post 'No such thing as bad publicity' http://www.diplomacy.edu/blog/no-such-thing-bad-publicity#comment-2258 by Liz Galvez explored this question from a slightly different angle: why would prospective hosts expose their vulnerabilities to public discussion? With Azerbaijan on the horizon, I have revisited the topic, and you may find it interesting as well. Does the choice of Azerbaijan as the venue for IGF 2012 affect your decision to attend/not attend? An excerpt from Liz's post: "It seems the temptation proves irresistible for the leaders of some countries which are seldom in the global eye to push ahead with staging a grand event to showcase their country’s assets. Their population can bask in an orgy of nationalist sentiment and propaganda while the media will be so carried away by the spectacular organisation, or the beauty of the hostesses, or the excitement of the event itself, that they will ignore the political context and any nasty goings-on beneath the surface. They hope the mismatch between official image and reality remains hidden. Or they may simply underestimate the media’s appetite to ferret out bad news. But in what world would anyone with even a remote understanding of independent media expect a high-profile sports or cultural event to be covered purely for its own sake, particularly when the host country does its best to smother controversial stories? Credibility is an essential element in any image-building endeavour. Where it is missing, it is difficult to regain, as the US Administration have learnt the hard way." Ginger Ginger (Virginia) Paque VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu Diplo Foundation Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme www.diplomacy.edu/ig ** ** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 15:30:58 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 07:30:58 +1200 Subject: [governance] Re: Choice of venue for meetings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: @ Ginger, as I reflect on your post, these are some things that come to mind. There are numerous reasons why countries want to host global events. They could be because of:- - convenience (there may be other meetings held in conjunction or immediately preceding the meeting; - affordability - cheaper to have it adjoining; - accessibility - for meeting participants if they have been brought in for other meetings; - convergence of a pool of global knowledge manifesting in the form of experts, resource persons, best practices, challenges etc which they can draw from to develop certain areas in country; - (from Liz's excerpt) showcasing national assets - it is natural for countries to have a sense of patriotism and desire to show off their country; - if they have been subject to bad press or reported to have been "mischievous", then to improve media relations etc; So bottom line the question is "what's in it for them?". I think the question is also a two way street. Where one must also examine the persons doing the selection because this also affects the type of decisions that are made. For instance, if country A is at war with country B, then there is a greater likelihood that country A if they have a say in the selection process will not want to country B to host such a global meeting. So it follows that it more or less is a subjective experience hence the need to discuss whether there should be a consistent set of rules that should be applicable when selecting host countries. And in the course of these discussions, it must also never be forgotten that sometimes engagement rather than confrontation can be a catalyst for change. Thoughts from the far seas, Sala On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 6:51 AM, Ginger Paque wrote: > I have been wondering how/why venues are chosen for global meetings. > Obviously, a host country must offer, and not every country will be willing > to invest the time, money and energy into the work involved, so options may > be limited. There are so many pros and cons for the topics/principles, the > host and the participants--it is mind-boggling. > > A (more or less) recent blog post 'No such thing as bad publicity' > http://www.diplomacy.edu/blog/no-such-thing-bad-publicity#comment-2258 by > Liz Galvez explored this question from a slightly different angle: why > would prospective hosts expose their vulnerabilities to public discussion? > With Azerbaijan on the horizon, I have revisited the topic, and you may > find it interesting as well. > > Does the choice of Azerbaijan as the venue for IGF 2012 affect your > decision to attend/not attend? > > An excerpt from Liz's post: > "It seems the temptation proves irresistible for the leaders of some > countries which are seldom in the global eye to push ahead with staging a > grand event to showcase their country’s assets. Their population can bask > in an orgy of nationalist sentiment and propaganda while the media will be > so carried away by the spectacular organisation, or the beauty of the > hostesses, or the excitement of the event itself, that they will ignore the > political context and any nasty goings-on beneath the surface. They hope > the mismatch between official image and reality remains hidden. Or they may > simply underestimate the media’s appetite to ferret out bad news. But in > what world would anyone with even a remote understanding of independent > media expect a high-profile sports or cultural event to be covered purely > for its own sake, particularly when the host country does its best to > smother controversial stories? Credibility is an essential element in any > image-building endeavour. Where it is missing, it is difficult to regain, > as the US Administration have learnt the hard way." > > Ginger > > > Ginger (Virginia) Paque > > VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu > Diplo Foundation > Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme > www.diplomacy.edu/ig > ** > ** > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From gtw at gtwassociates.com Wed Sep 5 15:40:45 2012 From: gtw at gtwassociates.com (GTW) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 15:40:45 -0400 Subject: [governance] Re: Choice of venue for meetings References: Message-ID: add to the list of reasons a county may offer to host ... influx of hard currency spending from international participants to local & national economies George T. Willingmyre, P.E. www.gtwassociates.com 301 421 4138 ----- Original Message ----- From: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro To: Ginger Paque Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org ; Narine Khachatryan Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 3:30 PM Subject: [governance] Re: Choice of venue for meetings @ Ginger, as I reflect on your post, these are some things that come to mind. There are numerous reasons why countries want to host global events. They could be because of:- a.. convenience (there may be other meetings held in conjunction or immediately preceding the meeting; b.. affordability - cheaper to have it adjoining; c.. accessibility - for meeting participants if they have been brought in for other meetings; d.. convergence of a pool of global knowledge manifesting in the form of experts, resource persons, best practices, challenges etc which they can draw from to develop certain areas in country; e.. (from Liz's excerpt) showcasing national assets - it is natural for countries to have a sense of patriotism and desire to show off their country; f.. if they have been subject to bad press or reported to have been "mischievous", then to improve media relations etc; So bottom line the question is "what's in it for them?". I think the question is also a two way street. Where one must also examine the persons doing the selection because this also affects the type of decisions that are made. For instance, if country A is at war with country B, then there is a greater likelihood that country A if they have a say in the selection process will not want to country B to host such a global meeting. So it follows that it more or less is a subjective experience hence the need to discuss whether there should be a consistent set of rules that should be applicable when selecting host countries. And in the course of these discussions, it must also never be forgotten that sometimes engagement rather than confrontation can be a catalyst for change. Thoughts from the far seas, Sala On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 6:51 AM, Ginger Paque wrote: I have been wondering how/why venues are chosen for global meetings. Obviously, a host country must offer, and not every country will be willing to invest the time, money and energy into the work involved, so options may be limited. There are so many pros and cons for the topics/principles, the host and the participants--it is mind-boggling. A (more or less) recent blog post 'No such thing as bad publicity' http://www.diplomacy.edu/blog/no-such-thing-bad-publicity#comment-2258 by Liz Galvez explored this question from a slightly different angle: why would prospective hosts expose their vulnerabilities to public discussion? With Azerbaijan on the horizon, I have revisited the topic, and you may find it interesting as well. Does the choice of Azerbaijan as the venue for IGF 2012 affect your decision to attend/not attend? An excerpt from Liz's post: "It seems the temptation proves irresistible for the leaders of some countries which are seldom in the global eye to push ahead with staging a grand event to showcase their country’s assets. Their population can bask in an orgy of nationalist sentiment and propaganda while the media will be so carried away by the spectacular organisation, or the beauty of the hostesses, or the excitement of the event itself, that they will ignore the political context and any nasty goings-on beneath the surface. They hope the mismatch between official image and reality remains hidden. Or they may simply underestimate the media’s appetite to ferret out bad news. But in what world would anyone with even a remote understanding of independent media expect a high-profile sports or cultural event to be covered purely for its own sake, particularly when the host country does its best to smother controversial stories? Credibility is an essential element in any image-building endeavour. Where it is missing, it is difficult to regain, as the US Administration have learnt the hard way." Ginger Ginger (Virginia) Paque VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu Diplo Foundation Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme www.diplomacy.edu/ig -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From devonrb at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 17:27:52 2012 From: devonrb at gmail.com (devonrb at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 21:27:52 +0000 Subject: [governance] Re: Choice of venue for meetings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1513922266-1346880427-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1940184494-@b18.c6.bise6.blackberry> It is an interesting question, with respect to the IGC why do we select the countries we do. Is there any tangible benefits from the country to the Caucus. How does a particular prospective host country be more attractive for an event than another. Seems to me there should be a standard set of criteria for making the choice. Off course these criteria will have to be carefully thought out, so as not to discriminate against a potential host on the basis of Internal social, political or economic circumstance. Sent from my BlackBerry® device from Digicel -----Original Message----- From: "GTW" Sender: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 15:40:45 To: ; Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro; Ginger Paque Reply-To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org,"GTW" Cc: Narine Khachatryan Subject: Re: [governance] Re: Choice of venue for meetings add to the list of reasons a county may offer to host ... influx of hard currency spending from international participants to local & national economies George T. Willingmyre, P.E. www.gtwassociates.com 301 421 4138 ----- Original Message ----- From: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro To: Ginger Paque Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org ; Narine Khachatryan Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 3:30 PM Subject: [governance] Re: Choice of venue for meetings @ Ginger, as I reflect on your post, these are some things that come to mind. There are numerous reasons why countries want to host global events. They could be because of:- a.. convenience (there may be other meetings held in conjunction or immediately preceding the meeting; b.. affordability - cheaper to have it adjoining; c.. accessibility - for meeting participants if they have been brought in for other meetings; d.. convergence of a pool of global knowledge manifesting in the form of experts, resource persons, best practices, challenges etc which they can draw from to develop certain areas in country; e.. (from Liz's excerpt) showcasing national assets - it is natural for countries to have a sense of patriotism and desire to show off their country; f.. if they have been subject to bad press or reported to have been "mischievous", then to improve media relations etc; So bottom line the question is "what's in it for them?". I think the question is also a two way street. Where one must also examine the persons doing the selection because this also affects the type of decisions that are made. For instance, if country A is at war with country B, then there is a greater likelihood that country A if they have a say in the selection process will not want to country B to host such a global meeting. So it follows that it more or less is a subjective experience hence the need to discuss whether there should be a consistent set of rules that should be applicable when selecting host countries. And in the course of these discussions, it must also never be forgotten that sometimes engagement rather than confrontation can be a catalyst for change. Thoughts from the far seas, Sala On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 6:51 AM, Ginger Paque wrote: I have been wondering how/why venues are chosen for global meetings. Obviously, a host country must offer, and not every country will be willing to invest the time, money and energy into the work involved, so options may be limited. There are so many pros and cons for the topics/principles, the host and the participants--it is mind-boggling. A (more or less) recent blog post 'No such thing as bad publicity' http://www.diplomacy.edu/blog/no-such-thing-bad-publicity#comment-2258 by Liz Galvez explored this question from a slightly different angle: why would prospective hosts expose their vulnerabilities to public discussion? With Azerbaijan on the horizon, I have revisited the topic, and you may find it interesting as well. Does the choice of Azerbaijan as the venue for IGF 2012 affect your decision to attend/not attend? An excerpt from Liz's post: "It seems the temptation proves irresistible for the leaders of some countries which are seldom in the global eye to push ahead with staging a grand event to showcase their country’s assets. Their population can bask in an orgy of nationalist sentiment and propaganda while the media will be so carried away by the spectacular organisation, or the beauty of the hostesses, or the excitement of the event itself, that they will ignore the political context and any nasty goings-on beneath the surface. They hope the mismatch between official image and reality remains hidden. Or they may simply underestimate the media’s appetite to ferret out bad news. But in what world would anyone with even a remote understanding of independent media expect a high-profile sports or cultural event to be covered purely for its own sake, particularly when the host country does its best to smother controversial stories? Credibility is an essential element in any image-building endeavour. Where it is missing, it is difficult to regain, as the US Administration have learnt the hard way." Ginger Ginger (Virginia) Paque VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu Diplo Foundation Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme www.diplomacy.edu/ig -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From dogwallah at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 18:22:13 2012 From: dogwallah at gmail.com (McTim) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 18:22:13 -0400 Subject: [governance] Re: Choice of venue for meetings In-Reply-To: <1513922266-1346880427-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1940184494-@b18.c6.bise6.blackberry> References: <1513922266-1346880427-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1940184494-@b18.c6.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 5:27 PM, wrote: > It is an interesting question, with respect to the IGC why do we select the > countries we do. The IGC has nothing to do with selection of IGF host nations. Is there any tangible benefits from the country to the > Caucus. no ;-) -- Cheers, McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 21:21:40 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 06:51:40 +0530 Subject: [governance] Re: Choice of venue for meetings In-Reply-To: References: <1513922266-1346880427-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1940184494-@b18.c6.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: The Caucus doesn't get ANYTHING out of it? Not even funding or such if required? That aside - what intangible benefits (if any) are derived from this process? More participation? -C On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 3:52 AM, McTim wrote: > On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 5:27 PM, wrote: > > It is an interesting question, with respect to the IGC why do we select > the > > countries we do. > > The IGC has nothing to do with selection of IGF host nations. > > > Is there any tangible benefits from the country to the > > Caucus. > > no ;-) > > -- > Cheers, > > McTim > "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A > route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From jeremy at ciroap.org Thu Sep 6 01:50:17 2012 From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2012 13:50:17 +0800 Subject: [governance] Fwd: Joint civil society letter to ITU member states In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50483999.7080301@ciroap.org> Forwarding this from the Center for Democracy and Technology, in case either we as the Internet Governance Caucus, or any of our individual groups, may wish to sign on. Since the IGC seems not to be drafting too many of its own statements or submissions nowadays, this seems like a worthwhile opportunity. The content is quite good. (It is not to be confused with a separate statement which will come out of the "Best Bits" meeting at Baku, and about which I will write soon.) Anyway, I leave this to the coordinators to take up if there is any interest from the members. -------- Original Message -------- An international group of civil society organizations has drafted the attached letter to member states/WCIT delegates expressing their concerns about the ITU process and about specific proposals that would threaten Internet openness and the exercise of human rights online. The letter is open for sign-on from any civil society group from any part of the world--if you/your organization wishes to sign, please send an email with your/your organization's name as you would like it to appear on the letter to signon at cdt.org . The letter will be published on the website of the Center for Democracy and Technology . If you're able, please consider circulating the letter among your civil society colleagues or helping to deliver the letter to relevant government officials. *- Send the letter to government officials *who are participating in the ITU process. The following link [http://www.itu.int/cgi-bin/htsh/mm/scripts/mm.list?_search=ITUstates&_languageid=1] leads to a full list of ITU member states. By clicking on a member state, you will be taken to a screen that shows various government ministries associated with the ITU. Click on any of these ministries, and you will find a page of contact information for individuals in those ministries. This should be a good starting point for those who are not sure who to contact in their governments. Of course, in many countries there will be multiple civil society groups wanting to get the letter to government officials, so folks should consider how to coordinate this effort in-country. *- Circulate the letter among your networks*--the greater the quantity and diversity of signatories, the better! *- Post the letter to your own website*--add a PDF of the letter, or a link to the live page at CDT's website (where sign-ons will be added as they are received.) * * **- Translate the letter to the language *of your country/region--the letter will be most effective if it is written in the primary language of the government to which it is addressed.* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: WCITletter 09_05_12.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 57016 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 01:54:48 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 17:54:48 +1200 Subject: [governance] Fwd: Joint civil society letter to ITU member states In-Reply-To: <50483999.7080301@ciroap.org> References: <50483999.7080301@ciroap.org> Message-ID: Actually Jeremy, I was just about to send a note to the list to invite them to comment on areas that they would like to make dedicated submissions to etc. This was going to be via the etherpad. Once this is finalised, we will create a survey monkey to generate feedback from the IGC. This is so people can own the process each step of the way. On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 5:50 PM, Jeremy Malcolm wrote: > Forwarding this from the Center for Democracy and Technology, in case > either we as the Internet Governance Caucus, or any of our individual > groups, may wish to sign on. Since the IGC seems not to be drafting too > many of its own statements or submissions nowadays, this seems like a > worthwhile opportunity. The content is quite good. (It is not to be > confused with a separate statement which will come out of the "Best Bits" > meeting at Baku, and about which I will write soon.) > > Anyway, I leave this to the coordinators to take up if there is any > interest from the members. > > -------- Original Message -------- > > An international group of civil society organizations has drafted the > attached letter to member states/WCIT delegates expressing their concerns > about the ITU process and about specific proposals that would threaten > Internet openness and the exercise of human rights online. The letter is > open for sign-on from any civil society group from any part of the > world--if you/your organization wishes to sign, please send an email with > your/your organization's name as you would like it to appear on the letter > to signon at cdt.org. The letter will be published on the website of the Center > for Democracy and Technology > . > > If you're able, please consider circulating the letter among your civil > society colleagues or helping to deliver the letter to relevant government > officials. > > *- Send the letter to government officials *who are participating in the > ITU process. The following link [ > http://www.itu.int/cgi-bin/htsh/mm/scripts/mm.list?_search=ITUstates&_languageid=1] > leads to a full list of ITU member states. By clicking on a member state, > you will be taken to a screen that shows various government ministries > associated with the ITU. Click on any of these ministries, and you will > find a page of contact information for individuals in those ministries. > This should be a good starting point for those who are not sure who to > contact in their governments. Of course, in many countries there will be > multiple civil society groups wanting to get the letter to government > officials, so folks should consider how to coordinate this effort > in-country. > > *- Circulate the letter among your networks*--the greater the quantity > and diversity of signatories, the better! > > *- Post the letter to your own website*--add a PDF of the letter, or a > link to the live page at CDT's website (where sign-ons will be added as > they are received.) > * > * > *- Translate the letter to the language of your country/region--the > letter will be most effective if it is written in the primary language of > the government to which it is addressed.* > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From william.drake at uzh.ch Thu Sep 6 03:25:09 2012 From: william.drake at uzh.ch (William Drake) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 09:25:09 +0200 Subject: [governance] Fwd: Joint civil society letter to ITU member states In-Reply-To: <50483999.7080301@ciroap.org> References: <50483999.7080301@ciroap.org> Message-ID: Hi On Sep 6, 2012, at 7:50 AM, Jeremy Malcolm wrote: > in case either we as the Internet Governance Caucus, or any of our individual groups, may wish to sign on It would be good if the IGC could sign on, inter alia to help build connections to other advocacy networks & audiences that don't see themselves as focused on IG per se. > It is not to be confused with a separate statement which will come out of the "Best Bits" meeting at Baku, and about which I will write soon. I hope that BB can agree on a different sort of letter that speaks directly to the main motivations and specific issues in play in the telecom world. That would be complementary to more broadly framed procedural & human rights oriented statements like this. It would also serve as a useful input to the WCIT workshop on day 1 and the WCIT discussion in the CIR main session on day 2 of IGF. Best, Bill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From lnalwoga at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 03:33:53 2012 From: lnalwoga at gmail.com (Lillian Nalwoga) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 10:33:53 +0300 Subject: [governance] Freedom Online Conference Nairobi now live Message-ID: Hello members, You can now follow the Freedom Online Conference Nairobi live @ http://trincmedia.com/live/ and on twitter #ofKe , #FreedomOnlineKe Regards, Lillian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chris.mulola at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 03:35:27 2012 From: chris.mulola at gmail.com (Chris Mulola) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 09:35:27 +0200 Subject: [governance] Freedom Online Conference Nairobi now live In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thx lillian, On Sep 6, 2012 9:34 AM, "Lillian Nalwoga" wrote: > Hello members, > > You can now follow the Freedom Online Conference Nairobi live @ > http://trincmedia.com/live/ and on twitter #ofKe , #FreedomOnlineKe > > Regards, > > Lillian > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 03:36:15 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 19:36:15 +1200 Subject: [governance] Evaluating the IGC [Draft] #Sneak Preview Message-ID: Dear All, This is just to advise that I am in the process of preparing an evaluation survey to assess the IGC. To get a sneak preview of the type of questions (we have left it open ended so you will not feel restricted/confined), please visit the etherpad at http://igcaucus.org:9001/p/IGC_2012_Survey Essentially the Background includes the vision and mission of the IGC and the questions are primarily based on the Objectives as set out in the Charter. This is still Draft and is being translated into an electronic survey. Kind Regards, -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From joana at varonferraz.com Thu Sep 6 03:37:36 2012 From: joana at varonferraz.com (Joana Varon) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 04:37:36 -0300 Subject: [governance] Freedom Online Conference Nairobi now live In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Very good transmission!! On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 4:33 AM, Lillian Nalwoga wrote: > Hello members, > > You can now follow the Freedom Online Conference Nairobi live @ > http://trincmedia.com/live/ and on twitter #ofKe , #FreedomOnlineKe > > Regards, > > Lillian > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- -- Joana Varon Ferraz Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade (CTS-FGV) http://direitorio.fgv.br/cts/ www.freenetfilm.org @joana_varon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From parminder at itforchange.net Thu Sep 6 03:41:40 2012 From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2012 13:11:40 +0530 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220B5DE@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> References: <50332E85.8060106@itforchange.net> <50333A5C.7060908@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD21F9B4D@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <5038BD70.7080909@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD22082FD@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <503F0CA3.3020801@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220B5DE@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: <504853B4.6080300@itforchange.net> On Saturday 01 September 2012 03:14 AM, Milton L Mueller wrote: > */[Milton L Mueller] Any law from ANY jurisdiction constraining or > dictating ICANN’s action would have global effect, insofar as the > global Internet relies on ICANN to administer the DNS./* Milton, In face of clear facts to the contrary, you continue to claim that EU's, India's, Ghana's, all of 192 government's, jurisdictions have similar implication and impact on ICANN. I dont think I need to labour to disprove this patently absurd proposition. But just to continue with the present discussion on the .xxx case, even if the ICM registry was * not* US based, the porn industry majors could/ would have brought the case against ICANN for instituting .xxx (since the registry would of course have serviced domain name demands from the US among others). ICANN would still be forced to defend itself in the case, and if it lost the case to annul or modify .xxx agreement. It does not take a political scientist to understand that the same is not true vis a vis the jurisdiction of any other of 192 countries. Let someone bring up a similar case, say, in a court in Bangladesh, And you will find ICANN etc merrily laughing at the impertinence of it. This is inequity, Milton, but you dont seem to be trained to recognise it. > */The only unique thing about the US is the IANA contract. Please try > to concentrate your fire on that./* IANA contract is a problem, but special application of US law and jurisdiction on all actions of ICANN is at least as big a problem. You cannot banish the 'problem' merely becuase you dont have a response to it. > */And if your solution is to have 192 governments share that power, I > suggest it will be a long time before most people involved in Internet > matters support you./* One, you say above that ICANN is already equally subject to the jurisdiction of all the 192 governments. Are you not therefore contradicting yourself here? And if it indeed is already subject to 192 jurisdiction, even efficiency, since you dont recognise issues of equity and democracy, would demand that there be some forum to help harmonise these 192 jurisdictional claims on ICANN, especially the world gets more and more into the digital thick. Otherwise we are in a rather unsustainable and dangerous situation, dont you think! Secondly, I have heard similar arguments in India against Indian democratic system and I completely understand the sentiment - it is better to have a dictator rather than be governed by the '550 tyrants' sitting in the parliament. Do you also believe/ propose so about the US democratic system? Just looking for some consistency here. parminder -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 03:44:34 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 19:44:34 +1200 Subject: [governance] Freedom Online Conference Nairobi now live In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Excellent transmission On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 7:37 PM, Joana Varon wrote: > Very good transmission!! > > On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 4:33 AM, Lillian Nalwoga wrote: > >> Hello members, >> >> You can now follow the Freedom Online Conference Nairobi live @ >> http://trincmedia.com/live/ and on twitter #ofKe , #FreedomOnlineKe >> >> Regards, >> >> Lillian >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > > -- > > -- > > Joana Varon Ferraz > Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade (CTS-FGV) > http://direitorio.fgv.br/cts/ > www.freenetfilm.org > @joana_varon > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 03:57:14 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 13:27:14 +0530 Subject: [governance] Freedom Online Conference Nairobi now live In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Very good transmission here, too. -C On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 1:14 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > Excellent transmission > > > On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 7:37 PM, Joana Varon wrote: > >> Very good transmission!! >> >> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 4:33 AM, Lillian Nalwoga wrote: >> >>> Hello members, >>> >>> You can now follow the Freedom Online Conference Nairobi live @ >>> http://trincmedia.com/live/ and on twitter #ofKe , #FreedomOnlineKe >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Lillian >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >>> To be removed from the list, visit: >>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >>> >>> For all other list information and functions, see: >>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >>> >>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> >> -- >> >> Joana Varon Ferraz >> Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade (CTS-FGV) >> http://direitorio.fgv.br/cts/ >> www.freenetfilm.org >> @joana_varon >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 04:14:51 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 10:14:51 +0200 Subject: [governance] ICANN: 4 New gTLD Applications Withdrawn, 3 By Google Message-ID: http://www.thedomains.com/2012/09/05/icann-4-new-gtld-applications-withdrawn-3-by-google/ According to ICANN’s site, four applications for new gTLD’s have been withdrawn by the applicants so far, including three by Google. The strings Google has withdrawn its new gTLD application for are: .And .Are .Est All of Google applications were submitted by Charleston Road Registry Inc. The fourth withdrawn application belongs to KSB Aktiengesellschaft who applied for .KSB Fahd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From jeremy at ciroap.org Thu Sep 6 04:26:12 2012 From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2012 16:26:12 +0800 Subject: [governance] Evaluating the IGC [Draft] #Sneak Preview In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50485E24.8090403@ciroap.org> On 06/09/12 15:36, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote: > This is just to advise that I am in the process of preparing an > evaluation survey to assess the IGC. To get a sneak preview of the > type of questions (we have left it open ended so you will not feel > restricted/confined), please visit the etherpad at > http://igcaucus.org:9001/p/IGC_2012_Survey > > Essentially the Background includes the vision and mission of the IGC > and the questions are primarily based on the Objectives as set out in > the Charter. This is still Draft and is being translated into an > electronic survey. This is a very good initiative which poses some key questions that are on my mind too. I still regard myself as a relative newcomer to the IGC, despite having joined in 2006, because when the IGC was first formed a few years earlier, it served a much more operative purpose as one of the thematic caucuses of the Civil Society Plenary at WSIS, with a very important role in that overall process (including for example successfully nominating all of the civil society candidates to the WGIG). Today it is more of a discussion forum than a representative body, and this raises the question of whether it should remain so (and perhaps it should - due to the now even greater diversity of our members than during WSIS), and the subsidiary question of whether in that case there should be some other coordinating peak body for civil society activism on Internet governance issues - as this is also arguably needed (like a CSISAC or an EDRI, but global). This is one of the topics to be addressed at Best Bits http://igf-online.net/bestbits, which (again, I promise!) I will post an update about to this list soon. I hope as many IGC members as possible will be able to attend. Let me know if you need help putting your draft into our Limesurvey. -- *Dr Jeremy Malcolm Senior Policy Officer Consumers International | the global campaigning voice for consumers* Office for Asia-Pacific and the Middle East Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Tel: +60 3 7726 1599 *Your rights, our mission – download CI's Strategy 2015:* http://consint.info/RightsMission @Consumers_Int | www.consumersinternational.org | www.facebook.com/consumersinternational Read our email confidentiality notice . Don't print this email unless necessary. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 05:07:08 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 21:07:08 +1200 Subject: [governance] Freedom Online Conference Nairobi now live In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Robert Guerra's speaking right now...:) On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 7:57 PM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar wrote: > Very good transmission here, too. > > -C > > On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 1:14 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < > salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Excellent transmission >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 7:37 PM, Joana Varon wrote: >> >>> Very good transmission!! >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 4:33 AM, Lillian Nalwoga wrote: >>> >>>> Hello members, >>>> >>>> You can now follow the Freedom Online Conference Nairobi live @ >>>> http://trincmedia.com/live/ and on twitter #ofKe , #FreedomOnlineKe >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Lillian >>>> >>>> >>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >>>> To be removed from the list, visit: >>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >>>> >>>> For all other list information and functions, see: >>>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >>>> >>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Joana Varon Ferraz >>> Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade (CTS-FGV) >>> http://direitorio.fgv.br/cts/ >>> www.freenetfilm.org >>> @joana_varon >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >>> To be removed from the list, visit: >>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >>> >>> For all other list information and functions, see: >>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >>> >>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala >> P.O. Box 17862 >> Suva >> Fiji >> >> Twitter: @SalanietaT >> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro >> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 >> >> >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 05:32:43 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 21:32:43 +1200 Subject: [governance] Evaluating the IGC [Draft] #Sneak Preview In-Reply-To: <50485E24.8090403@ciroap.org> References: <50485E24.8090403@ciroap.org> Message-ID: > > Snip > > Let me know if you need help putting your draft into our Limesurvey. > The Survey has already been uploaded into Survey Monkey but the next survey which will be focussed strategically on policy areas etc can go into the Limesurvey. I am still working on the questions for the focal areas etc. > > -- > > *Dr Jeremy Malcolm > Senior Policy Officer > Consumers International | the global campaigning voice for consumers* > Office for Asia-Pacific and the Middle East > Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, > Malaysia > Tel: +60 3 7726 1599 > > *Your rights, our mission – download CI's Strategy 2015:* > http://consint.info/RightsMission > > @Consumers_Int | www.consumersinternational.org | > www.facebook.com/consumersinternational > > Read our email confidentiality notice. > Don't print this email unless necessary. > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 06:55:33 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 22:55:33 +1200 Subject: [governance] Evaluating the IGC [Survey 1 of 2012] Message-ID: Dear All, This survey is designed to extract feedback from the IGC. It is designed to evaluate how the IGC is facilitating the Objectives under the Charter.There are 10 questions. The Survey will run from the 6th September, 2012 to the 13th September, 2012. You can access the Survey via https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/IGCEvaluation I encourage everyone to find time to complete this Survey. I would also like to acknowledge and thank Chaitanya Dhareshwar one of our new subscribers to the IGC from India for volunteering to put the questions into the Survey Monkey. Kind Regards -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 07:07:25 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 13:07:25 +0200 Subject: [governance] Evaluating the IGC [Survey 1 of 2012] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you Salanieta. I think questions 4 to 10 should have been multiple-choice (unless I am not understanding something here). Fahd On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear All, > > This survey is designed to extract feedback from the IGC. It is designed > to evaluate how the IGC is facilitating the Objectives under the > Charter.There are 10 questions. The Survey will run from the 6th > September, 2012 to the 13th September, 2012. > > You can access the Survey via > https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/IGCEvaluation > > I encourage everyone to find time to complete this Survey. > > I would also like to acknowledge and thank Chaitanya Dhareshwar one of our > new subscribers to the IGC from India for volunteering to put the questions > into the Survey Monkey. > > Kind Regards > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 07:09:22 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 23:09:22 +1200 Subject: [governance] Evaluating the IGC [Survey 1 of 2012] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: @Fahd, we had multiple choice last year but the feedback was that people felt confined. So I decided to leave it open and not restrictive. Feel free to give either short answers or otherwise. It's your perspective that we are after. On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 11:07 PM, Fahd A. Batayneh wrote: > Thank you Salanieta. I think questions 4 to 10 should have been > multiple-choice (unless I am not understanding something here). > > Fahd > > On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < > salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Dear All, >> >> This survey is designed to extract feedback from the IGC. It is designed >> to evaluate how the IGC is facilitating the Objectives under the >> Charter.There are 10 questions. The Survey will run from the 6th >> September, 2012 to the 13th September, 2012. >> >> You can access the Survey via >> https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/IGCEvaluation >> >> I encourage everyone to find time to complete this Survey. >> >> I would also like to acknowledge and thank Chaitanya Dhareshwar one of >> our new subscribers to the IGC from India for volunteering to put the >> questions into the Survey Monkey. >> >> Kind Regards >> >> -- >> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala >> P.O. Box 17862 >> Suva >> Fiji >> >> Twitter: @SalanietaT >> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro >> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 >> >> >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 07:27:43 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 13:27:43 +0200 Subject: [governance] Re: Choice of venue for meetings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Add to the list that some countries hosting events via their respective governments do so as means to extend the term of the government or maybe the term of the minister(s) working on the event. Fahd On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 9:30 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > @ Ginger, as I reflect on your post, these are some things that come to > mind. There are numerous reasons why countries want to host global events. > They could be because of:- > > > - convenience (there may be other meetings held in conjunction or > immediately preceding the meeting; > - affordability - cheaper to have it adjoining; > - accessibility - for meeting participants if they have been brought > in for other meetings; > - convergence of a pool of global knowledge manifesting in the form of > experts, resource persons, best practices, challenges etc which they can > draw from to develop certain areas in country; > - (from Liz's excerpt) showcasing national assets - it is natural for > countries to have a sense of patriotism and desire to show off their > country; > - if they have been subject to bad press or reported to have been > "mischievous", then to improve media relations etc; > > So bottom line the question is "what's in it for them?". I think the > question is also a two way street. Where one must also examine the persons > doing the selection because this also affects the type of decisions that > are made. For instance, if country A is at war with country B, then there > is a greater likelihood that country A if they have a say in the selection > process will not want to country B to host such a global meeting. > > So it follows that it more or less is a subjective experience hence the > need to discuss whether there should be a consistent set of rules that > should be applicable when selecting host countries. And in the course of > these discussions, it must also never be forgotten that sometimes > engagement rather than confrontation can be a catalyst for change. > > Thoughts from the far seas, > Sala > > On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 6:51 AM, Ginger Paque wrote: > >> I have been wondering how/why venues are chosen for global meetings. >> Obviously, a host country must offer, and not every country will be willing >> to invest the time, money and energy into the work involved, so options may >> be limited. There are so many pros and cons for the topics/principles, the >> host and the participants--it is mind-boggling. >> >> A (more or less) recent blog post 'No such thing as bad publicity' >> http://www.diplomacy.edu/blog/no-such-thing-bad-publicity#comment-2258by Liz Galvez explored this question from a slightly different angle: why >> would prospective hosts expose their vulnerabilities to public discussion? >> With Azerbaijan on the horizon, I have revisited the topic, and you may >> find it interesting as well. >> >> Does the choice of Azerbaijan as the venue for IGF 2012 affect your >> decision to attend/not attend? >> >> An excerpt from Liz's post: >> "It seems the temptation proves irresistible for the leaders of some >> countries which are seldom in the global eye to push ahead with staging a >> grand event to showcase their country’s assets. Their population can bask >> in an orgy of nationalist sentiment and propaganda while the media will be >> so carried away by the spectacular organisation, or the beauty of the >> hostesses, or the excitement of the event itself, that they will ignore the >> political context and any nasty goings-on beneath the surface. They hope >> the mismatch between official image and reality remains hidden. Or they may >> simply underestimate the media’s appetite to ferret out bad news. But in >> what world would anyone with even a remote understanding of independent >> media expect a high-profile sports or cultural event to be covered purely >> for its own sake, particularly when the host country does its best to >> smother controversial stories? Credibility is an essential element in any >> image-building endeavour. Where it is missing, it is difficult to regain, >> as the US Administration have learnt the hard way." >> >> Ginger >> >> >> Ginger (Virginia) Paque >> >> VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu >> Diplo Foundation >> Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme >> www.diplomacy.edu/ig >> > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > ___________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From dogwallah at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 07:35:25 2012 From: dogwallah at gmail.com (McTim) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 07:35:25 -0400 Subject: [governance] Re: Choice of venue for meetings In-Reply-To: References: <1513922266-1346880427-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1940184494-@b18.c6.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 9:21 PM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar wrote: > The Caucus doesn't get ANYTHING out of it? no, nothing. > > That aside - what intangible benefits (if any) are derived from this > process? Which process are you asking about? the IGF or the IGC, or the way that IGF host nations are selected? -- Cheers, McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 07:37:45 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 17:07:45 +0530 Subject: [governance] Re: Choice of venue for meetings In-Reply-To: References: <1513922266-1346880427-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1940184494-@b18.c6.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: Thanks, I meant The host nation selection process. On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 5:05 PM, McTim wrote: > On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 9:21 PM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar > wrote: > > The Caucus doesn't get ANYTHING out of it? > > > > no, nothing. > > > > > > > That aside - what intangible benefits (if any) are derived from this > > process? > > Which process are you asking about? > > the IGF or the IGC, or the way that IGF host nations are selected? > > -- > Cheers, > > McTim > "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A > route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 07:43:54 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 13:43:54 +0200 Subject: [governance] Al-Jazeera Website Defaced by Pro-Syrian Hackers Message-ID: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19488739 The Arabic website of news network al-Jazeera has been defaced, apparently by hackers loyal to the Syrian regime. Fahd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From dogwallah at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 07:45:11 2012 From: dogwallah at gmail.com (McTim) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 07:45:11 -0400 Subject: [governance] Re: Choice of venue for meetings In-Reply-To: References: <1513922266-1346880427-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1940184494-@b18.c6.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: hi, On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 7:37 AM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar wrote: > Thanks, I meant The host nation selection process. The way host nations are chosen is sort of a black box, it seems that some countries volunteer, hoping to burnish their image or bring visitor revenue, and there is some UN process whereby one is selected, and if two or more volunteer, they work out which country gets which year. there isn't a long line of nations volunteering for this, barely enough to plan for a year or two out. We don't get any intangible benefits per se, although some members have a little holiday around the IGF. Holiday in Baku?? I'm going to pass. -- Cheers, McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From mueller at syr.edu Thu Sep 6 13:12:59 2012 From: mueller at syr.edu (Milton L Mueller) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 17:12:59 +0000 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: <504853B4.6080300@itforchange.net> References: <50332E85.8060106@itforchange.net> <50333A5C.7060908@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD21F9B4D@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <5038BD70.7080909@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD22082FD@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <503F0CA3.3020801@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220B5DE@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <504853B4.6080300@itforchange.net> Message-ID: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220ED52@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> Parminder, your responses are degenerating beyond the point where it is worth responding. You seem to be more interested in playing rhetorical games than in reaching agreement or improving understanding. I will point out the reasons I say these things and then suspend any further communication with you on these issues [Milton L Mueller] Any law from ANY jurisdiction constraining or dictating ICANN’s action would have global effect, insofar as the global Internet relies on ICANN to administer the DNS. Milton, In face of clear facts to the contrary, you continue to claim that EU's, India's, Ghana's, all of 192 government's, jurisdictions have similar implication and impact on ICANN. I dont think I need to labour to disprove this patently absurd proposition. Ø Read my sentence, which is a conditional statement and says that if "any law from any jurisdiction" Ø could "constrain or dictate ICANN's action" it would have global effect. But just to continue with the present discussion on the .xxx case, even if the ICM registry was * not* US based, the porn industry majors could/ would have brought the case against ICANN for instituting .xxx (since the registry would of course have serviced domain name demands from the US among others). ICANN would still be forced to defend itself in the case, and if it lost the case to annul or modify .xxx agreement. Ø I have asked you two questions related to this that you have steadfastly ducked: Ø 1) Do you think ICANN should be immune from antitrust? Yes or no. Ø 2) What stops such a case from being brought in the EU? ICANN has offices in Brussels, and its "service" or operations could be considered global, thus in the EU. It does not take a political scientist to understand that the same is not true vis a vis the jurisdiction of any other of 192 countries. Ø You have not made any argument to explain why this is true. You have merely asserted it. Ø The US antitrust case is in fact no different from an antitrust case that might be brought in the EU, Ø If indeed ICANN were engaged in restraint of the domain name trade in conjunction with a EU-based Ø registry, the effect would be exactly the same in both cases. ICANN's status as a California Corp. Ø makes no difference here. The only unique thing about the US is the IANA contract. Please try to concentrate your fire on that. IANA contract is a problem, but special application of US law and jurisdiction on all actions of ICANN is at least as big a problem. You cannot banish the 'problem' merely becuase you dont have a response to it. And if your solution is to have 192 governments share that power, I suggest it will be a long time before most people involved in Internet matters support you. One, you say above that ICANN is already equally subject to the jurisdiction of all the 192 governments. Are you not therefore contradicting yourself here? Ø No, either you are not reading carefully or you are playing games Ø I am talking about the sharing the power conferred by the IANA contract. 192 governments do not share that. Ø And applicability of antitrust law or other forms of territorial law to ICANN by 192 jursidictions is not "sharing" it is multiplying and fragmenting. And if it indeed is already subject to 192 jurisdiction, even efficiency, since you dont recognise issues of equity and democracy Ø You lost me here. I am the one in favor of democracy (e.g., election of ICANN board), you are the one in favor of control by states. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From pouzin at well.com Thu Sep 6 20:34:16 2012 From: pouzin at well.com (Louis Pouzin (well)) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 02:34:16 +0200 Subject: [governance] When will ACTA II be fought out ? Message-ID: Even though they got a rout on SOPA, ACTA, etc, the US IPR lobbies, as expected, are stealthily cooking up ACTA II. Their strategy, however, is now resorting to the well known divide and rule stereotype. It seems a bit late to force an agreement before the US presidential election. But whatever happens in November, the next USG is unlikely to change policy on IPR. Watch out. Louis http://www.ip-watch.org/2012/09/06/us-congressional-push-for-release-of-tpp-text-us-pressuring-nations-bilaterally/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=alerts -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 21:44:35 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 13:44:35 +1200 Subject: [governance] When will ACTA II be fought out ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 12:34 PM, Louis Pouzin (well) wrote: > Even though they got a rout on SOPA, ACTA, etc, the US IPR lobbies, as > expected, are stealthily cooking up ACTA II. Their strategy, however, is > now resorting to the well known divide and rule stereotype. It seems a bit > late to force an agreement before the US presidential election. But > whatever happens in November, the next USG is unlikely to change policy on > IPR. Watch out. > > Louis > > > http://www.ip-watch.org/2012/09/06/us-congressional-push-for-release-of-tpp-text-us-pressuring-nations-bilaterally/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=alerts > > Louis, there is legitimacy in what is being reported. The TPP where > parties include the US, South Korea, Columbia, Australia, Brunei Darusalem, > Chile, Malaysia, New Zealand, Peru and Singapore. Countries that have just > recently joined the negotiations are Mexico and Canada. The US Secretary of > State has been making the rounds around the Pacific rim for many reasons > but one of the main ones being to advocate the TPP. The link that you > mentioned where the TPP is being sold in return for Free Trade Agreements > (FTA) is legitimate. Fouad in a separate post was true that it should not > come as a surprise that since this is election year in the US, candidates > that may have made a firm stance against SOPA/PIPA may also "wobble" and > time will soon tell. Whilst I am not against Intellectual Property Rights > advocacy, there are boundaries that one should consider where it infringes > on things like "open internet", "fair use". > See Statement of Jose Fernandez Assistant Secretary , Bureau of Economic and Business Affairs that was issued on the 5th August 2012 that states the official US position on the matter. In other words Fernandez is saying, "Sign the TPP or forget free trade". In a separate post, I remember posting on targeted sanctions etc etc. Whilst analysts have factored in the impact on free trade and consumer rights with regards to access to information and to knowledge (think of underserved communities who are accessing bodies of knowledge via the internet like never before and whilst they have to deal with issues such as access, availability, affordability etc this access will now be further undercut by treaties like the TPP). We all know the impact that policy has on communities, just yesterday as we were streaming into the Freedom Online Kenya, it was interesting to hear Ambassador Olof mention that India is an older democracy that even most European nation states, what I found even more interesting was when he talked about how the world has learnt from the impact of sanctions on the Balkans and how it led to more "underworld activities"...no not vampires but illicit and criminal trafficking etc. But back to Fernandez's statements as published on 5 August, 2012. *Strengthening the U.S.-Taiwan Economic Relationship* Remarks Jose W. Fernandez Assistant Secretary, Bureau of Economic and Business Affairs American Chamber of Commerce Taipei, Taiwan August 5, 2012 ------------------------------ *I. Introduction* Thank you. This is my first trip to Taiwan and I continue to marvel at the numerous cultural and economic ties that bind our people. One of our ties was illustrated to me as I read the paper this morning. I enjoyed seeing that Jeremy Lin’s visit took top billing in the newspaper, and the meeting between President Ma and I drew a little less attention. Let me give you just one example that is illustrative of the larger U.S. – Taiwan relationship. It is a great American tradition to start new companies in a home garage. In an Irvine, California garage in 1988 Linksys was born. The creators of this now ubiquitous line of home computer networking devices were Taiwan immigrants Janie and Victor Tsao. At the time they founded Linksys, they were also working as consultants specializing in pairing U.S. technology vendors with manufacturers in Taiwan. That pairing has become emblematic of the U.S. – Taiwan economic relationship. The latest numbers show that two-way trade between the United States and Taiwan in electrical machinery hovers around $23 billion per year. *II. Strategic Rebalancing Toward Asia* While Taiwan has been exemplary as one of the so-called “Asian Tigers,” I want to put our economic relationship with Taiwan in the larger Asian context before discussing Taiwan specifically. That larger context is our work on the Trans Pacific Partnership, and the Select USA initiative. As you know, the global economic crisis of the past few years has pushed us in the United States to pursue our own economic recovery. This is a two-sided coin, with an eye toward regional trade liberalization on one side, and concerted efforts to attract more foreign investment to the United States on the other. At all levels of the U.S. government, we are broadening and deepening our economic relationships throughout the Asia Pacific region. We are acutely aware that reinvigorating our economy at home goes hand in hand with partnering on economic growth abroad. The United States has long been involved in developments in the Asia Pacific region. We are proud that our contributions to regional security here helped create the conditions that brought more people out of poverty faster than anywhere else in history. That engagement continues today and the futures of the United States and the Asia Pacific are inextricably linked. As Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has highlighted, we are not just a diplomatic or military power here. We are an economic force as well. In 2010 alone, our exports to the Pacific Rim were over $320 billion, supporting 850,000 American jobs. But our work is not finished. One of our country’s great challenges in this century will be to establish a stronger network of trade links and practices around the Pacific Rim. Our recently enacted Free Trade Agreements with South Korea and Colombia, and our commitment to the Trans-Pacific Partnership, are clear demonstrations that we are here to stay. I am proud to note that the American Institute in Taiwan (AIT) has been a very active promoter of these efforts. In fact, they have been so successful in working to promote America’s economic relationship with Taiwan that I was able to personally congratulate the former Director, Bill Stanton, on winning my award for export promotion in 2011. He also received the State Department’s coveted Cobb award for global trade promotion efforts. That’s two awards in the same year to one man, something that doesn’t happen very often in the State Department. The AIT team in Taipei and Kaohsiung (“GOW shung”) is carrying on that tradition and I expect great achievements from the incoming leadership team here in Taipei. All of these individual efforts fit into our larger work toward regional trade liberalization. Also supporting this effort is our commitment to the Trans-Pacific Partnership. Looking ahead to the next generation of trade agreements, we are aiming at crafting an agreement that addresses new and emerging trade issues and challenges. The Trans-Pacific Partnership, or TPP, includes the United States, along with Australia, Brunei Darussalam, Chile, Malaysia, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore, and Vietnam. It is a high-standard, broad-based regional agreement. We see the TPP as the most credible pathway to broader Asia-Pacific regional economic integration. The agreement will include core issues traditionally found in trade agreements, such as industrial goods, agriculture, and textiles as well as rules on intellectual property, technical barriers to trade, labor, and the environment. But it will also address cross-cutting issues not previously found in trade agreements, such as making the regulatory systems of TPP countries more compatible so U.S. companies can operate more seamlessly in TPP markets. It will also help innovative, job-creating small- and medium-sized enterprises participate more actively in international trade. Equally important is addressing new emerging trade issues, such as trade and investment in innovative products and services, and ensuring that state-owned enterprises compete fairly with private companies and do not distort competition in ways that put U.S. companies and workers at a disadvantage. The United States is participating in the TPP as the best vehicle to advance our economic interests and to promote economic growth and development in the critical Asia-Pacific region. Expanding U.S. exports is critical to our economic recovery and to the creation and retention of high-quality jobs in the United States. With its rapid growth and large markets, there is no region with which expanding our trade is more vital than the Asia Pacific. The TPP countries recently announced the addition of Mexico and Canada to the negotiations. Late last year Japan also formally expressed interest in beginning consultations with TPP member countries with a view to possibly joining the negotiations. Candidate countries for TPP must demonstrate through their actions and through bilateral consultations with each TPP country their readiness to meet the standards and objectives of the agreement. Once those bilateral processes are concluded, the current TPP partners must decide by consensus before a new member can participate. In short, we are excited by the possibilities created in the Asia-Pacific by the TPP, and are working very hard to make it a reality by the end of this year. Let’s move on to another program we just started, Select USA. So one side of the coin of economic recovery is expanding opportunities for U.S. companies to do business effectively abroad. The other side of that coin is the work that we do at home to encourage investment in the United States. The United States consistently ranks at the top of most major indicators for its attractive business and investment climate. In fact, from 2006 through 2010, the United States received more FDI than any other country. The FDI flow into the United States in 2010 - $228 billion - was more than double the flow into any other country in the world, and despite economic difficulties of the time, 49 percent greater than the FDI flow into the United States in 2009. At the same time, total Taiwan direct investment flow in the United States was over $5 billion in 2010, an increase of 14.7% from 2009. Under a program called SelectUSA, the U.S. Departments of Commerce and State engage partners around the world, as I am doing here, to promote investment into our dynamic economy. SelectUSA showcases how the United States is the world’s premier business location and provides easy access to federal-level programs and services related to business investment. Why do I say that the United States is the world’s premier business location? Because we are the world’s largest economy; we consistently rank at the top of most major indicators for our attractive business and investment climate; our own investment in research and development makes us the world’s center for innovation; and our leadership in protecting intellectual property with a transparent and predictable legal system makes doing business in the U.S. both cost-efficient and secure. Also, one of the strongest reasons will always be the quality of our higher education, particularly in science and engineering. Taiwan people in the United States are well aware of this: 80 percent have achieved some level of higher education, particularly in these fields and in medicine. I understand that the U.S. regulatory environment can be daunting to some investors, but through our hardworking representatives at the American Institute in Taiwan, and SelectUSA and other U.S. government partners back in Washington, we can help connect investors with the business counseling and training they may need to comply with applicable regulations. We can also direct you to the different states’ economic development agencies, making sure you get connected to the right partners for your investment selection process. *III. U. S. – Taiwan Economic Relations* Where does Taiwan figure into this picture? How can Taiwan partner with us and benefit from this wealth creation? Today, Taiwan is our 10th largest trading partner and our 15th largest export market. It would surprise many people but the United States actually trades more with Taiwan than with France; and Taiwan-U.S. trade is at near the same level as India-U.S. bilateral trade. The United States is Taiwan’s largest foreign investor, and Taiwan companies have made significant investments in the United States. Historically, the United States has been the strongest champion of Taiwan’s participation in global trade bodies such as the World Trade Organization and the APEC forum. Our strong economic relationship covers more than six decades. Taiwan has been an invaluable partner in influencing others to embrace reform and strive for economic growth. In recent years, however, this immensely valuable relationship has hit some bumps in the road that hinder our partnership and progress. We can’t afford these bumps and need to make sure that they do not detract from efforts to make full use of our potential. We were pleased to see that the Legislative Yuan recently took action that will clear the path for Taiwan to establish a maximum residue limit for ractopamine in beef, eliminating a serious impediment to U.S. beef imports. U.S. trade agencies will be monitoring implementation of the regulatory measures needed to allow U.S. beef imports to resume. These steps will be important in helping to rebuild confidence in our bilateral trade relationship. We know from our own experience that adhering to bilateral and multilateral trade commitments is not always easy, but it is essential to maintaining the credibility that serves as the foundation of what has long been a positive, constructive relationship between trading partners. Of course our bilateral economic relationship goes well beyond this particular issue and we have continued to engage Taiwan at the working level and via our capable colleagues at AIT on the full range of important bilateral trade and investment issues. For example, the United States worked for many years in support of Taiwan’s candidacy to join the WTO Government Procurement Agreement. These joint efforts were rewarded when Taiwan acceded to the Agreement in 2009. Taiwan has already made many reforms to its procurement practices, and we stand ready to assist as Taiwan continues to harmonize its measures with global best practices with regard to transparency, contract terms, and licensing. Taiwan has made tremendous progress over the years in improving intellectual property rights protection and enforcement, and the United States has carried out significant bilateral cooperation activities on intellectual property rights—IPR—issues. Still, challenges remain, including with regard to online infringement and the theft of trade secrets. During my time here in Taiwan I have visited companies that have had their technology stolen and heard their stories. For U.S. firms the protection of IPR is so vital because so many of our exports derive from IPR. A recent study estimated that 75% of U.S. exports involve IPR. Taiwan aspires to be an economy based on innovation, and together our unceasing efforts will ensure that Taiwan’s IPR enforcement regime meets the highest standards. Improved protection of trade secrets in Taiwan will help both foreign and domestic firms be competitive and innovative in today’s knowledge-based economy. The bottom line: we have made major progress over the years on many critical issues when both sides have been prepared to work together. The United States sincerely desires a reinvigorated trade relationship with Taiwan. It’s already generally good, but we can do better. Like the United States, Taiwan is also pursuing trade liberalization. We understand the Ma Administration has indicated a desire to be considered for the TPP in eight years. As a gold standard for future trade agreements in the region, the TPP requires members to embrace ambitious and comprehensive liberalization and open their markets to competition. We commend President Ma for recognizing the importance of trade integration, and for his expressed determination to push forward liberalization measures that would help Taiwan make its case as a possible candidate for future trade agreements. Change will not be easy, but the benefits of liberalization are clear: stronger and more competitive firms, better services, wider availability of products at lower prices, greater efficiency, and smoother integration into the world marketplace. More comprehensive economic liberalization will be an essential component for securing Taiwan's economic future. Real liberalization will demonstrate Taiwan's commitment to trade integration and potential inclusion in various trade arrangements. This includes comprehensive, bilateral FTAs—such as Taiwan's ongoing negotiations with Singapore—which is an important first step. As Taiwan's leaders implement meaningful market liberalization measures and pursue new trade agreements, firm resolve and commitment to free market principles as a responsible WTO member are essential attributes to live by. We look forward to deepening our trade and economic interaction with Taiwan. We will support Taiwan as it embraces these fundamental prerequisites to effective and meaningful trade integration. Everyone in this room is an important element of what we hope to do. *IV. Next Steps & Conclusion* Just as Janie and Victor Tsao understood when they founded Linksys nearly 25 years ago, trade between Taiwan and the United States is vital to the prosperity of both. The United States and Taiwan have a long and positive history of cooperation and many shared interests in the region. We are hopeful that the positive recent steps Taiwan has taken to address the beef issue are a demonstration of the sustained commitment that will be needed to reenergize our bilateral trade dialogue. To be sure, Taiwan, like any democracy, will face tough choices in order to live up to its international obligations and to put its long-term economic interests above domestic politics. Taiwan is a part of the Asia-Pacific region’s economic future. We look forward to working with Taiwan as it builds cooperative and credible partnerships throughout the region, including with the United States. *Ends* > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 21:45:38 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 13:45:38 +1200 Subject: [governance] When will ACTA II be fought out ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: p.s it certainly does'nt take a genius to know how Mexico will vote with its stance in the NAFTA. ;) On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 1:44 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 12:34 PM, Louis Pouzin (well) wrote: > >> Even though they got a rout on SOPA, ACTA, etc, the US IPR lobbies, as >> expected, are stealthily cooking up ACTA II. Their strategy, however, is >> now resorting to the well known divide and rule stereotype. It seems a bit >> late to force an agreement before the US presidential election. But >> whatever happens in November, the next USG is unlikely to change policy on >> IPR. Watch out. >> >> Louis >> >> >> http://www.ip-watch.org/2012/09/06/us-congressional-push-for-release-of-tpp-text-us-pressuring-nations-bilaterally/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=alerts >> >> Louis, there is legitimacy in what is being reported. The TPP where >> parties include the US, South Korea, Columbia, Australia, Brunei Darusalem, >> Chile, Malaysia, New Zealand, Peru and Singapore. Countries that have just >> recently joined the negotiations are Mexico and Canada. The US Secretary of >> State has been making the rounds around the Pacific rim for many reasons >> but one of the main ones being to advocate the TPP. The link that you >> mentioned where the TPP is being sold in return for Free Trade Agreements >> (FTA) is legitimate. Fouad in a separate post was true that it should not >> come as a surprise that since this is election year in the US, candidates >> that may have made a firm stance against SOPA/PIPA may also "wobble" and >> time will soon tell. Whilst I am not against Intellectual Property Rights >> advocacy, there are boundaries that one should consider where it infringes >> on things like "open internet", "fair use". >> > > See Statement of Jose Fernandez Assistant Secretary , Bureau of Economic > and Business Affairs that was issued on the 5th August 2012 that states the > official US position on the matter. In other words Fernandez is saying, > "Sign the TPP or forget free trade". In a separate post, I remember posting > on targeted sanctions etc etc. Whilst analysts have factored in the impact > on free trade and consumer rights with regards to access to information and > to knowledge (think of underserved communities who are accessing bodies of > knowledge via the internet like never before and whilst they have to deal > with issues such as access, availability, affordability etc this access > will now be further undercut by treaties like the TPP). We all know the > impact that policy has on communities, just yesterday as we were streaming > into the Freedom Online Kenya, it was interesting to hear Ambassador Olof > mention that India is an older democracy that even most European nation > states, what I found even more interesting was when he talked about how the > world has learnt from the impact of sanctions on the Balkans and how it led > to more "underworld activities"...no not vampires but illicit and criminal > trafficking etc. > > But back to Fernandez's statements as published on 5 August, 2012. > > *Strengthening the U.S.-Taiwan Economic Relationship* > > > > Remarks > > Jose W. Fernandez > Assistant Secretary, Bureau of Economic and Business Affairs > > American Chamber of Commerce > > Taipei, Taiwan > > August 5, 2012 > > > ------------------------------ > > *I. Introduction* > > Thank you. This is my first trip to Taiwan and I continue to marvel at the > numerous cultural and economic ties that bind our people. One of our ties > was illustrated to me as I read the paper this morning. I enjoyed seeing > that Jeremy Lin’s visit took top billing in the newspaper, and the meeting > between President Ma and I drew a little less attention. > > Let me give you just one example that is illustrative of the larger U.S. – > Taiwan relationship. It is a great American tradition to start new > companies in a home garage. In an Irvine, California garage in 1988 Linksys > was born. The creators of this now ubiquitous line of home computer > networking devices were Taiwan immigrants Janie and Victor Tsao. At the > time they founded Linksys, they were also working as consultants > specializing in pairing U.S. technology vendors with manufacturers in > Taiwan. That pairing has become emblematic of the U.S. – Taiwan economic > relationship. The latest numbers show that two-way trade between the United > States and Taiwan in electrical machinery hovers around $23 billion per > year. > > *II. Strategic Rebalancing Toward Asia* > > While Taiwan has been exemplary as one of the so-called “Asian Tigers,” I > want to put our economic relationship with Taiwan in the larger Asian > context before discussing Taiwan specifically. That larger context is our > work on the Trans Pacific Partnership, and the Select USA initiative. > > As you know, the global economic crisis of the past few years has pushed > us in the United States to pursue our own economic recovery. This is a > two-sided coin, with an eye toward regional trade liberalization on one > side, and concerted efforts to attract more foreign investment to the > United States on the other. At all levels of the U.S. government, we are > broadening and deepening our economic relationships throughout the Asia > Pacific region. We are acutely aware that reinvigorating our economy at > home goes hand in hand with partnering on economic growth abroad. > > The United States has long been involved in developments in the Asia > Pacific region. We are proud that our contributions to regional security > here helped create the conditions that brought more people out of poverty > faster than anywhere else in history. That engagement continues today and > the futures of the United States and the Asia Pacific are inextricably > linked. As Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has highlighted, we are not > just a diplomatic or military power here. We are an economic force as well. > In 2010 alone, our exports to the Pacific Rim were over $320 billion, > supporting 850,000 American jobs. > > But our work is not finished. One of our country’s great challenges in > this century will be to establish a stronger network of trade links and > practices around the Pacific Rim. Our recently enacted Free Trade > Agreements with South Korea and Colombia, and our commitment to the > Trans-Pacific Partnership, are clear demonstrations that we are here to > stay. > > I am proud to note that the American Institute in Taiwan (AIT) has been a > very active promoter of these efforts. In fact, they have been so > successful in working to promote America’s economic relationship with > Taiwan that I was able to personally congratulate the former Director, Bill > Stanton, on winning my award for export promotion in 2011. He also received > the State Department’s coveted Cobb award for global trade promotion > efforts. That’s two awards in the same year to one man, something that > doesn’t happen very often in the State Department. The AIT team in Taipei > and Kaohsiung (“GOW shung”) is carrying on that tradition and I expect > great achievements from the incoming leadership team here in Taipei. > > All of these individual efforts fit into our larger work toward regional > trade liberalization. Also supporting this effort is our commitment to the > Trans-Pacific Partnership. > > Looking ahead to the next generation of trade agreements, we are aiming at > crafting an agreement that addresses new and emerging trade issues and > challenges. The Trans-Pacific Partnership, or TPP, includes the United > States, along with Australia, Brunei Darussalam, Chile, Malaysia, New > Zealand, Peru, Singapore, and Vietnam. It is a high-standard, broad-based > regional agreement. We see the TPP as the most credible pathway to broader > Asia-Pacific regional economic integration. > > The agreement will include core issues traditionally found in trade > agreements, such as industrial goods, agriculture, and textiles as well as > rules on intellectual property, technical barriers to trade, labor, and the > environment. But it will also address cross-cutting issues not previously > found in trade agreements, such as making the regulatory systems of TPP > countries more compatible so U.S. companies can operate more seamlessly in > TPP markets. It will also help innovative, job-creating small- and > medium-sized enterprises participate more actively in international trade. > Equally important is addressing new emerging trade issues, such as trade > and investment in innovative products and services, and ensuring that > state-owned enterprises compete fairly with private companies and do not > distort competition in ways that put U.S. companies and workers at a > disadvantage. > > The United States is participating in the TPP as the best vehicle to > advance our economic interests and to promote economic growth and > development in the critical Asia-Pacific region. Expanding U.S. exports is > critical to our economic recovery and to the creation and retention of > high-quality jobs in the United States. With its rapid growth and large > markets, there is no region with which expanding our trade is more vital > than the Asia Pacific. > > The TPP countries recently announced the addition of Mexico and Canada to > the negotiations. Late last year Japan also formally expressed interest in > beginning consultations with TPP member countries with a view to possibly > joining the negotiations. Candidate countries for TPP must demonstrate > through their actions and through bilateral consultations with each TPP > country their readiness to meet the standards and objectives of the > agreement. Once those bilateral processes are concluded, the current TPP > partners must decide by consensus before a new member can participate. In > short, we are excited by the possibilities created in the Asia-Pacific by > the TPP, and are working very hard to make it a reality by the end of this > year. > > Let’s move on to another program we just started, Select USA. So one side > of the coin of economic recovery is expanding opportunities for U.S. > companies to do business effectively abroad. The other side of that coin is > the work that we do at home to encourage investment in the United States. > The United States consistently ranks at the top of most major indicators > for its attractive business and investment climate. In fact, from 2006 > through 2010, the United States received more FDI than any other country. > The FDI flow into the United States in 2010 - $228 billion - was more than > double the flow into any other country in the world, and despite economic > difficulties of the time, 49 percent greater than the FDI flow into the > United States in 2009. At the same time, total Taiwan direct investment > flow in the United States was over $5 billion in 2010, an increase of 14.7% > from 2009. > > Under a program called SelectUSA, the U.S. Departments of Commerce and > State engage partners around the world, as I am doing here, to promote > investment into our dynamic economy. SelectUSA showcases how the United > States is the world’s premier business location and provides easy access to > federal-level programs and services related to business investment. > > Why do I say that the United States is the world’s premier business > location? Because we are the world’s largest economy; we consistently rank > at the top of most major indicators for our attractive business and > investment climate; our own investment in research and development makes us > the world’s center for innovation; and our leadership in protecting > intellectual property with a transparent and predictable legal system makes > doing business in the U.S. both cost-efficient and secure. Also, one of the > strongest reasons will always be the quality of our higher education, > particularly in science and engineering. Taiwan people in the United States > are well aware of this: 80 percent have achieved some level of higher > education, particularly in these fields and in medicine. I understand that > the U.S. regulatory environment can be daunting to some investors, but > through our hardworking representatives at the American Institute in > Taiwan, and SelectUSA and other U.S. government partners back in > Washington, we can help connect investors with the business counseling and > training they may need to comply with applicable regulations. > > We can also direct you to the different states’ economic development > agencies, making sure you get connected to the right partners for your > investment selection process. > > *III. U. S. – Taiwan Economic Relations* > > Where does Taiwan figure into this picture? How can Taiwan partner with us > and benefit from this wealth creation? Today, Taiwan is our 10th largest > trading partner and our 15th largest export market. It would surprise > many people but the United States actually trades more with Taiwan than > with France; and Taiwan-U.S. trade is at near the same level as India-U.S. > bilateral trade. The United States is Taiwan’s largest foreign investor, > and Taiwan companies have made significant investments in the United > States. Historically, the United States has been the strongest champion of > Taiwan’s participation in global trade bodies such as the World Trade > Organization and the APEC forum. Our strong economic relationship covers > more than six decades. Taiwan has been an invaluable partner in influencing > others to embrace reform and strive for economic growth. > > In recent years, however, this immensely valuable relationship has hit > some bumps in the road that hinder our partnership and progress. We can’t > afford these bumps and need to make sure that they do not detract from > efforts to make full use of our potential. We were pleased to see that the > Legislative Yuan recently took action that will clear the path for Taiwan > to establish a maximum residue limit for ractopamine in beef, eliminating a > serious impediment to U.S. beef imports. U.S. trade agencies will be > monitoring implementation of the regulatory measures needed to allow U.S. > beef imports to resume. These steps will be important in helping to rebuild > confidence in our bilateral trade relationship. > > We know from our own experience that adhering to bilateral and > multilateral trade commitments is not always easy, but it is essential to > maintaining the credibility that serves as the foundation of what has long > been a positive, constructive relationship between trading partners. > > Of course our bilateral economic relationship goes well beyond this > particular issue and we have continued to engage Taiwan at the working > level and via our capable colleagues at AIT on the full range of important > bilateral trade and investment issues. For example, the United States > worked for many years in support of Taiwan’s candidacy to join the WTO > Government Procurement Agreement. These joint efforts were rewarded when > Taiwan acceded to the Agreement in 2009. Taiwan has already made many > reforms to its procurement practices, and we stand ready to assist as > Taiwan continues to harmonize its measures with global best practices with > regard to transparency, contract terms, and licensing. > > Taiwan has made tremendous progress over the years in improving > intellectual property rights protection and enforcement, and the United > States has carried out significant bilateral cooperation activities on > intellectual property rights—IPR—issues. Still, challenges remain, > including with regard to online infringement and the theft of trade > secrets. During my time here in Taiwan I have visited companies that have > had their technology stolen and heard their stories. For U.S. firms the > protection of IPR is so vital because so many of our exports derive from > IPR. A recent study estimated that 75% of U.S. exports involve IPR. Taiwan > aspires to be an economy based on innovation, and together our unceasing > efforts will ensure that Taiwan’s IPR enforcement regime meets the highest > standards. Improved protection of trade secrets in Taiwan will help both > foreign and domestic firms be competitive and innovative in today’s > knowledge-based economy. The bottom line: we have made major progress over > the years on many critical issues when both sides have been prepared to > work together. The United States sincerely desires a reinvigorated trade > relationship with Taiwan. It’s already generally good, but we can do better. > > Like the United States, Taiwan is also pursuing trade liberalization. We > understand the Ma Administration has indicated a desire to be considered > for the TPP in eight years. As a gold standard for future trade agreements > in the region, the TPP requires members to embrace ambitious and > comprehensive liberalization and open their markets to competition. We > commend President Ma for recognizing the importance of trade integration, > and for his expressed determination to push forward liberalization measures > that would help Taiwan make its case as a possible candidate for future > trade agreements. > > Change will not be easy, but the benefits of liberalization are clear: > stronger and more competitive firms, better services, wider availability of > products at lower prices, greater efficiency, and smoother integration into > the world marketplace. More comprehensive economic liberalization will be > an essential component for securing Taiwan's economic future. Real > liberalization will demonstrate Taiwan's commitment to trade integration > and potential inclusion in various trade arrangements. This includes > comprehensive, bilateral FTAs—such as Taiwan's ongoing negotiations with > Singapore—which is an important first step. As Taiwan's leaders implement > meaningful market liberalization measures and pursue new trade agreements, > firm resolve and commitment to free market principles as a responsible WTO > member are essential attributes to live by. We look forward to deepening > our trade and economic interaction with Taiwan. We will support Taiwan as > it embraces these fundamental prerequisites to effective and meaningful > trade integration. Everyone in this room is an important element of what we > hope to do. > > *IV. Next Steps & Conclusion* > > Just as Janie and Victor Tsao understood when they founded Linksys nearly > 25 years ago, trade between Taiwan and the United States is vital to the > prosperity of both. The United States and Taiwan have a long and positive > history of cooperation and many shared interests in the region. We are > hopeful that the positive recent steps Taiwan has taken to address the beef > issue are a demonstration of the sustained commitment that will be needed > to reenergize our bilateral trade dialogue. To be sure, Taiwan, like any > democracy, will face tough choices in order to live up to its international > obligations and to put its long-term economic interests above domestic > politics. Taiwan is a part of the Asia-Pacific region’s economic future. We > look forward to working with Taiwan as it builds cooperative and credible > partnerships throughout the region, including with the United States. > > > > *Ends* > >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Fri Sep 7 00:36:01 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 16:36:01 +1200 Subject: [governance] Thank you Civil Society representatives to the MAG Message-ID: Subject was originally: "Re: FOR MAG Representatives -Fwd: Consolidated Themes MAG Consultations [FINAL] " Dear All, I would like to take this time to acknowledge the excellent efforts that Civil Society representatives to the MAG have been doing so far. You all deserve to be commended and thanked for the excellent work in taking forward the views of your colleagues that was raised via this listserv as well. It is also pleasing to see the huge number of workshops that are being organised in Baku and I am sure the discussions are bound to be stimulating and will enable the sharing of best practices amongst those that attend the various forums. Thank you also to all in the IGC that contributed to help shaping the discussions pre Baku. As you know we had consolidated our suggestions and sent them to the various MAG working Groups in late April and on 1st May 2012. Kind Regards, Sala On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 3:49 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > *Attention to MAG members*, > > This was put together by the IGC through various responses to the threads, > skypes, wiki for the MAG Working Groups on the last occassion and am > re-sending this. You can keep a tab on the general pulse of things and > factor this into your discussions where necessary. > > Kind Regards, > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro > Date: Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 4:29 AM > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Fri Sep 7 02:30:10 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2012 09:30:10 +0300 Subject: [governance] When will ACTA II be fought out ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50499472.7050508@gmail.com> Why do you think this is the case? On 2012/09/07 03:34 AM, Louis Pouzin (well) wrote: > But whatever happens in November, the next USG is unlikely to change > policy on IPR. Watch out. -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From roland at internetpolicyagency.com Fri Sep 7 03:43:47 2012 From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 08:43:47 +0100 Subject: [governance] ICANN: 4 New gTLD Applications Withdrawn, 3 By Google In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In message , at 10:14:51 on Thu, 6 Sep 2012, Fahd A. Batayneh writes >According to ICANN’s site, four applications for new gTLD’s have >been withdrawn by the applicants so far, including three by Google. > >The strings Google has withdrawn its new gTLD application for are: > >.And > >.Are > >.Est These are all ISO 3166-3 strings, and should never have been applied for. There's another (.idn), which needs to be withdrawn. Maybe that's one of the remaining two that haven't been identified yet. >All of Google applications were submitted by Charleston Road Registry >Inc. > >The fourth withdrawn application belongs to KSB Aktiengesellschaft who >applied for .KSB But this one isn't (an ISO3166-3 string). -- Roland Perry -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Fri Sep 7 03:55:07 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 10:55:07 +0300 Subject: [governance] =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?Why_=2Ecom_Still_Doesn=92t_Have_a_T?= =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?hick_Whois?= Message-ID: http://domainincite.com/10300-why-com-still-doesnt-have-a-thick-whois ICANN’s board of directors quizzed staff about the lack of a “thick” Whois obligation in Verisign’s .com contract, according to meeting minutes released on August 30, 2012. Fahd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Fri Sep 7 05:32:41 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 12:32:41 +0300 Subject: [governance] global events in non-democratic countries In-Reply-To: <8CF594AB7D16D52-1250-B8DC@webmail-d141.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CF58F1FC2F34A2-458-6FA3@webmail-d004.sysops.aol.com> <8CF5940776C882B-1250-B6AE@webmail-d141.sysops.aol.com> <8CF59472BFFDABE-1250-B82E@webmail-d141.sysops.aol.com> <8CF594AB7D16D52-1250-B8DC@webmail-d141.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Thank you Ronald. Reading the article, it is a bit shocking since this was the exact scenario during the days of Ben Ali. Even when the article mentions Salafist Muslims, Tunisia does not have hardcore extreme Salafists. This all comes as a surprise to me. I just returned back from Cairo yesterday, and every time I took a taxi, I seized the opportunity to open a dialogue with the taxi driver regarding the situation in Egypt now vs. during Mubarak's regime. While they all hate Mubarak for what he did to Egypt, they agree that Egypt was much safer during his days. However, they claim that Egypt has become less safe nowadays since those who commit all sorts of bad acts are in fact followers and mercenaries of Mubarak, and they are trying to revenge for him as means to convince the Egyptians that the days of Mubarak were much better. So it makes me wonder, is the case in Tunisia the same? Are those restricting freedom of speech followers and mercenaries of Ben Ali and his wife, while the government is not fully aware of the situation since they are focused on resurrecting the country? I guess media is like a cube, it covers a story from one angle while not focusing - or neglecting at times - on the cube at-large. Fahd On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 9:56 AM, Koven Ronald wrote: > Dear Fahd -- > > Here below is the latest Tunisia Monitoring Group statement on the > situation. I had argued internally that it was too long and detailed for an > exercise in public communication, but it does provide the chapter and verse > to answer your questions on what we base our concerns. It is also available > in Arabic and French on the TMG web site. > > Bests, Rony Koven > > *Old-style repression resurfaces to threaten freedom of expression in > new Tunisia, says IFEX-TMG* > > [image: A hundred Tunisian journalists gathered on 22 August in the > Kasbah, Tunis to criticising appointments in the public media.] > A hundred Tunisian journalists gathered on 22 August in the Kasbah, Tunis > to criticising appointments in the public media. (El Watan) > > (IFEX-TMG) - 29 August 2012 - In the wake of recent government > appointments to heads of prominent media outlets, as well as attacks on > journalists, writers and artists, the International Freedom of Expression > Exchange Tunisia Monitoring Group (IFEX-TMG), a coalition of 21 IFEX > members, expresses serious concern over what has been a wave of setbacks > for freedom of expression in Tunisia. > > The IFEX-TMG strongly condemns the increasing use of violence and threats > against journalists, artists and writers by police and ultra-conservative > groups, and the government's failure to put an end to the impunity of those > carrying out these attacks. Furthermore, members of the media are in the > midst of an ongoing battle to safeguard the freedoms gained during the > democratic transition period, after the revolution. > > *Lack of transparency and consultation* > > On 22 August 2012, the Tunisian government appointed Imane Bahroun as the > head of National Television and Lotfi Touati, a former security officer, as > director of media group Dar Assabah, the company which publishes two > influential daily newspapers and a weekly magazine. > > The government had relieved former Dar Assabah director, Kamel Sammari, > of his duties despite plans by the company's board to discuss the issue on > 15 September 2012. The move was strongly condemned by journalists and > public figures, who protested outside the building for several days and ran > blank front pages in *Assabbah* and *Le Temps* in solidarity. The > National Syndicate for Tunisian Journalists (SNJT) has strongly condemned > the removal and has since called for a strike on 15 September 2012 to > express its concerns about the erosion of media freedoms. > > Both of these new appointments were made without consultation with > relevant media bodies such as the SNJT, who along with several political > parties, rejected the decision as lacking transparency. This is the second > time the government has appointed directors of public media unilaterally > and without consultation, after appointments were made to public service > media in January 2012. > These were later rescinded after a public outcry. > > The IFEX-TMG considers the appointments a setback on promises made by the > government to act transparently and to safeguard media freedom. "Instead of > introducing fair media laws after proper consultation, the government has > created a legislative dead zone, and given itself sole freedom to exploit > it," said Rohan Jayasekera of Index on Censorship, a member of the > IFEX-TMG. > > *Arrests and intimidation in the workplace* > > On 25 August 2012, the Court of Appeal in Tunis issued an order to arrest > Sami Fehri , > the director of Attounisia TV station on charges of financial impropriety > at a production company he co-owned that was contracted by the national TV > station prior to the revolution. His arrest came two days after he was told > the government was annoyed by his satirical programme the *Political Logic > *, in which he criticised the government and Ennahda party leaders > including Rachid Al-Ghannouchi. Fehri declared before his arrest that Lutfi > Zaitoun, the Prime Minister's media advisor, called him and asked him to > suspend the programme. If convicted, he faces up to ten years in prison > . > > According to Fehri's lawyer, the arrest violated the Tunisian Penal Code > and the accused was not given the right to defend himself nor to be > informed about the charges against him. “The lawyer's explanation shows the > case is purely political,” said the Tunis Centre for Freedom of Press. > > Other journalists have been pressured at work. On 21 August 2012, > Boutheina Gouia, who presents the News and Rumour programme on national > radio, was informed by her boss that she was suspended for hosting SNJT > officials whom she invited to discuss the latest appointment of managers to > the national TV and *Assabah* newspaper. > > The guests on the programme criticised the government's approach to > dealing with the public media. “There has been a change in the attitude of > employees with the national radio, it looks like a policy of intimidation > has succeeded,” Gouia told the IFEX-TMG. > > As part of the pattern of intimidation, previously on 6 July 2012, Nadia > Al-Hadawi, a journalist at the national radio, was prevented from entering > the building where she was supposed to present her morning programme with > well-known writer Naziha Rjiba, a critic of the government. > > The IFEX-TMG says the suspension of Gouia appears to be an arbitrary act > designed to punish her for exercising her right to freedom of expression, > and an attempt to deter others from criticising government actions. > > *Physical and verbal attacks by police and Salafist groups* > > The IFEX-TMG is also alarmed at a number of recent physical and verbal > attacks on journalists that have taken place in Tunis and other cities, > coming at the hands of police, union members and ultra-conservative > religious groups (also referred to as Salafists.) On 6 August 2012, Monji > Akasha, a journalist with Sfax Radio, was attacked by some of the Housing > and Planning Office's union members while covering strikes in the Sfax > area. > > Also on 6 August, journalist Sihem al-Mohammedi and photographer Abdul > Hamid Al-Omary from Al-Hiwar Attounisi TV station, journalist Nai'ma > Al-Sharmeeti from Arabiske TV station, and journalist Seif Eddin Al-Ameri > from Akhir Khabar online news site were physically attacked by police on > Avenue Bourguiba while covering the violent dispersal of protestors by > police officers. Al-Omary suffered injuries to his legs after being badly > beaten by the police. > > Around the same time, on 5 August, Tunisian blogger Lina ben Mhenni was > reportedly deliberately targeted and beaten by police during > a demonstration on Avenue Bourguiba. > > On 14 August 2012, ultra-conservative Islamists attacked the comedian > Lutfi Al-Abdali and prevented him from presenting his show in the town of > Manzil Bourguiba after they claimed he was offensive to Islam. > On 23 August 2012, a group of Salafist men physically attacked and > severely beat prominent poet Sghir Awlad Ahmed after he appeared on a > programme on Attounisia TV in which he criticised Ennahda and its leaders. > Afterwards, Awlad Ahmed said, “No officers or officials will be saved from > the bombs of my poetry and prose if they continue to turn a blind eye to > such attacks.” > > On 24 August 2012, poet Mohammed Al-Hadi Al-Waslati was attacked by a > group of Salafist men in Tunis. He was later taken to hospital and is still > in a critical condition. > > In an interview broadcast on 25 August 2012 on Express FM Radio, the > Minister of Culture, Mehdi Mabrouk, stated that the phenomenon of Salafist > attacks has to be confronted but claimed the situation was under control. > This contradicts the reality that attacks are reportedly on the increase. > > The IFEX-TMG calls on the authorities, including the Ministry of Culture, > to investigate these attacks and bring the perpetrators to justice in order > to create a safe environment in which journalists, artists and writers can > work freely, without threat or censorship. > > The IFEX-TMG once again calls on the government to implement Decree > 2011-115 (also known as the new Press Code), especially article 14, which > guarantees the protection of journalists from harassment and attacks and > criminalises any act of violence against them. > > “We think that the government is buying time with too many promises and no > actions. We are worried about freedom of the press in Tunisia. Many factors > indicate that that there is a setback regarding freedom of expression. > Attacks on writers, journalists and artists continue without any punishment > or action. This situation takes us back to 1988 when Ben Ali had a U-turn > on freedom of expression. We must fight against that,” says SNJT Chair > Najiba Hamrouni. > > The IFEX-TMG states that by implementing the media laws which came into > force in November 2011, better safeguards would be put in place to protect > freedom of expression. It therefore urges the government to implement > Decree 2011-115 and Decree 2011-116, which laid the groundwork for a newly > independent broadcast media with the creation of the Independent High > Authority for Audiovisual Communications (HAICA), which will have the power > to appoint directors of the public media. > [image: > http://ifex.org/middle_east_north_africa/2010/06/30/tmg_new_2010_90.jpg]IFEX > Tunisia Monitoring Group > Virginie Jouan, Chair > on behalf of the World Association of Newspapers and News Publishers > (WAN-IFRA) > c/o campaigns (@) ifex.org > http://www.facebook.com/IFEXTMG > > > @IFEXTMG > > > Arabic Network for Human Rights Information > ARTICLE 19 > Bahrain Center for Human Rights > Cairo Institute for Human Rights Studies > Canadian Journalists for Free Expression > Cartoonists Rights Network International > > Egyptian Organization for Human Rights > Freedom House > Index on Censorship > International Federation of Journalists > International Federation of Library Associations and Institutions > International Press Institute > International Publishers Association > > Journaliste en danger > Maharat Foundation > Media Institute of Southern Africa > Norwegian PEN > World Association of Community Radio Broadcasters - AMARC > > > World Association of Newspapers and News Publishers > > World Press Freedom Committee > Writers in Prison Committee, PEN International > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Fahd A. Batayneh > To: Koven Ronald > Cc: IG Caucus > Sent: Wed, Sep 5, 2012 8:34 am > Subject: Re: [governance] global events in non-democratic countries > > Thank you Koven. I withdraw the term "claims" from my previous e-mail. > > Fahd > > On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 8:31 AM, Koven Ronald wrote: > >> And on what basis would you contend the contrary ? >> >> I'm an active member of the Tunisia Monitoring Group, and we have noted >> the reluctance of the new authorities to enact meaningful free speech/press >> freedom measures.I refer you to various TMG alerts on the situation. The >> resignation in frustration of Kamel Labidi as head of the official body >> formed to promote media freedom measures speaks volumes. He is about to >> testify on the deterioration of the situation before the UN Human Rights >> Council in Geneva. When I was in Tunis for World Press Freedom Day this >> May, lack of official commitment to furthering media freedom was obvious. >> There are numerous well-documented concrete signs and examples. >> >> Bests, Rony Koven >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Fahd A. Batayneh >> To: Koven Ronald >> Cc: IG Caucus >> Sent: Wed, Sep 5, 2012 8:14 am >> Subject: Re: [governance] global events in non-democratic countries >> >> Koven, >> >> On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 7:43 AM, Koven Ronald wrote: >> >>> (snip) >>> >>> We had the same debate over holding the World Summit on the >>> Information Society in Tunis. I do think that going there and letting the >>> world see the real nature of the Ben Ali regime did prepare world opinion >>> for the need for a revolution, *even if freedom of expression isn't >>> doing so well in Tunisia now.* >>> >> >> On what basis did you base these claims? >> >> Fahd >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 13830 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3919 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From vladar at diplomacy.edu Fri Sep 7 08:31:41 2012 From: vladar at diplomacy.edu (Vladimir Radunovic) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 14:31:41 +0200 Subject: [governance] Net neutrality debate goes to the ITU WCIT Message-ID: <00d601cd8cf4$bd8521a0$388f64e0$@diplomacy.edu> Dear colleagues, As you might have followed, ETNO (the European association of telecom operators) has submitted a proposal within ITU WCIT process asking the ITR to allow a multi-tier Internet - i.e. that '...the operators are free to negotiate commercial agreements beyond best effort' as their chair Gambardella explained. It is a very interesting move: the telecom operators asking for a global regulation on net neutrality (well, against it, in fact) to prevent moves of the national regulations... I have reflected on both the subject and the process in my recent blog: http://www.diplomacy.edu/blog/net-neutrality-debate-goes-itu-wcit I would appreciate your views (you can use comments option on the blog page for easier records) Best, Vlada *** The latest from Diplo... Diplo's 2013 Master/Postgraduate Diploma in Contemporary Diplomacy focusses on contemporary issues and challenges in theory and practice of diplomacy. Apply by 30 September 2012: http://www.diplomacy.edu/courses/MAPGD *** _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Vladimir Radunovic Internet Governance and e-Diplomacy DiploFoundation email: vladar at diplomacy.edu web: www.diplomacy.edu twitter: @vradunovic _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Fri Sep 7 15:41:24 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 22:41:24 +0300 Subject: [governance] Google to Open First Latin America Data Centre in Chile Message-ID: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-19518307 Search giant Google has decided to base its first Latin American data centre in Chile, near the capital Santiago. Fahd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Fri Sep 7 15:51:57 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 22:51:57 +0300 Subject: [governance] The Global Web Index Message-ID: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-19478298 http://www.webfoundation.org/projects/the-web-index/ Sweden tops Tim Berners-Lee's web index Fahd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From sana.pryhod at gmail.com Fri Sep 7 16:06:13 2012 From: sana.pryhod at gmail.com (Oksana Prykhodko) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 23:06:13 +0300 Subject: [governance] The Global Web Index In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you very much, Fahd! Very interesting information) Best regards, Oksana 2012/9/7 Fahd A. Batayneh : > http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-19478298 > > http://www.webfoundation.org/projects/the-web-index/ > > Sweden tops Tim Berners-Lee's web index > > Fahd > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Sat Sep 8 02:15:56 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 09:15:56 +0300 Subject: [governance] United Airlines 'Network Outage' Snarls Air Travel Message-ID: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57502077-92/united-airlines-network-outage-snarls-air-travel/ This is the ugly side of relying heavily on technology. Fahd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de Sat Sep 8 07:25:14 2012 From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang=22?=) Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2012 13:25:14 +0200 Subject: [governance] UNDESA References: Message-ID: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD282@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> FYI http://www.un.org/en/development/desa/usg/index.shtml wolfgang -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From kovenronald at aol.com Sat Sep 8 08:16:01 2012 From: kovenronald at aol.com (Koven Ronald) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 08:16:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [governance] UNDESA In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD282@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> References: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD282@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> Message-ID: <8CF5BD2D855290A-EF0-2BFA8@webmail-m014.sysops.aol.com> Wolfgang -- What do you reckon this means in policy terms affecting cyber-freedom ? Bests, Rony -----Original Message----- From: "Kleinwächter, Wolf gang" To: governance Sent: Sat, Sep 8, 2012 1:26 pm Subject: [governance] UNDESA FYI http://www.un.org/en/development/desa/usg/index.shtml wolfgang ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From william.drake at uzh.ch Sat Sep 8 08:49:56 2012 From: william.drake at uzh.ch (William Drake) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 14:49:56 +0200 Subject: [governance] UNDESA In-Reply-To: <8CF5BD2D855290A-EF0-2BFA8@webmail-m014.sysops.aol.com> References: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD282@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <8CF5BD2D855290A-EF0-2BFA8@webmail-m014.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4EEF79DE-2D77-4BB7-860A-65806C13CC90@uzh.ch> China pays only 3.189% of the UN budget but apparently has a lock on the UnderSec General slot, pretty bon marché for the world's second largest economy…. Bill On Sep 8, 2012, at 2:16 PM, Koven Ronald wrote: > Wolfgang -- > > What do you reckon this means in policy terms affecting cyber-freedom ? > > Bests, Rony > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Kleinwächter, Wolf > gang" > To: governance > Sent: Sat, Sep 8, 2012 1:26 pm > Subject: [governance] UNDESA > > FYI > > http://www.un.org/en/development/desa/usg/index.shtml > > wolfgang > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From avri at ella.com Sat Sep 8 10:53:27 2012 From: avri at ella.com (Avri Doria) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 10:53:27 -0400 Subject: [governance] Fwd: [] The New WCITLeaks References: <97F541CE86D742D789DCA51364C4FED3@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6237F675-1D9D-4D5E-AC1A-1E758BB26F59@ella.com> Begin forwarded message: > > Subject: [WCIT] The New WCITLeaks > Date: 6 September 2012 11:58:16 EDT > > All, > > I am pleased to announce a major update to WCITLeaks.org, our site to host leaked ITU documents. > > Allow me especially to draw your attention to our new section on resources from civil society. Our hope is to build out this section with a lot of policy analysis and advocacy resources from a broad spectrum of civil society. > > We invite you to take the opportunity of this update to send us the documents you think are important. If you feel so inspired, we could also use your help publicizing the site. > > Many thanks! > > Eli Dourado > Research Fellow > Mercatus Center > George Mason University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Sat Sep 8 16:54:16 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 08:54:16 +1200 Subject: [governance] The TPP is worse than ACTAand SOPA/ was When will ACTA II be fought out ? Message-ID: The TPP will be worse than the SOPA. See the analysis by EFF: - https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/08/tpp-creates-liabilities-isps-and-put-your-rights-risk There have been other reports, see: - http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/27/pacific-free-trade-deal - http://www.alternet.org/story/156059/trans-pacific_partnership%3A_under_cover_of_darkness%2C_a_corporate_coup_is_underway Pay particular attention to the "NAFTA" on steroids bit. What is also interesting is the news that Russia has just signed an MoU with the US strengthening greater partnership, notwithstanding the support that it got from the US in joining the WTO, You can imagine that if Russia is persuaded to join the TPP then the likelihood that they will receive the relevant traction to widen the circle of the TPP Party/Parade will definitely cause the concerns that was raised by the EFF to be a reality in the not too distant future. This means ISP liabilities amongst a host of other things. For developing countries, the concept of "free trade" may sound lucrative but the reality is that it only disadvantages one (the loser). I find the US position on this to be schizophrenic because on one end they are proclaiming an open and free internet and taking extraordinary measures to criticise threats to an open internet yet are going to extraordinary lengths to go around the world by sending their highest political officer to gain momentum for the TPP. It brings to mind that nations at the end of the day are about interests and "as long as it suits them". I will also hasten to add that there are many citizens in the US who are also wanting greater transparency around the TPP negotiations as it is likely to impact the architecture of the Internet and the rules of the game. Kind Regards, Sala -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Sat Sep 8 21:02:13 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 13:02:13 +1200 Subject: [governance] Business Class for Human Rights? In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD1BC@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> References: <1346245938.124121609@apps.rackspace.com> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD1B5@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD1BC@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> Message-ID: Hi Wolfgang, I think that there is a distinction between what ordinary access is. Take Finland where they hold that 1MB access of Broadband as a Human Right. Whilst 1MB is a human right in Finland it is not so for much of the world where access, availability, affordability is still an issue. Recently talks about US FCC proposed Universal Service Funds on global submarine cable investments to benefit much of the developing world where they land had been met with much criticism. (sigh) The reality is all Telcos all over the world charge different prices for different products and the more the bandwidth and increase in QoS, the more you pay. If we take Finland's position and say X Bandwidth is a human right and therefore either (FREE) or heavily subsidised by Government, then anything on top of it is chargeable to whoever wants ti pay for it...would be commercial sense. On the other hand declaring access as a human right may mean getting massive subsidies for global submarine deployment in developing countries but of course I am dreaming...lol But on the issue raised by Luigi Gambardella, it follows that a proposal by the European Network Operators Association (ETNO) on the principle that Sender Party pays in terms of Traffic is similar to the principle of Calling Party pays. The irony is that the link mentions that there is significant traffic sent to Europe from the US which will mean that the US would be placed in a "checkmate" position. The EC and the US have no doubt been at loggerheads where it comes to the issue of taxation and the US of course has since the passage of the US Congress's Tax Freedom Act 1998[ (*authored by Representative Christopher Cox and Senator Ron Wyden and signed into law on October 21 1998 by then President Clinton*) which following expiry continued to be reauthorised and it most recent reauthorisation) was in October 2007 where this has been extended till 2014] consistently held that taxation for them would be from source, which means "no tax" as opposed to EC's attempts to tax at consumption. Cheers, Sala There are many reasons for the US to oppose the ETNO on this front. On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 4:24 AM, "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" < wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de> wrote: > Will the ETNO/WCIT proposal lead to a mechanism where we have different > classes for use of the human right to freedom of expression and to > communicate? And even more: If you introduce a "business class" you have to > introduce a checkpoint to seperate business from eceonomy and this can be > done only via content control and DPI and leads directly to censorship. Any > comments? > > > http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57501754-38/euro-isps-defend-new-fees-as-business-class-internet-q-a/ > > Wolfgang > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From parminder at itforchange.net Sun Sep 9 02:30:13 2012 From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder) Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2012 12:00:13 +0530 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220ED52@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> References: <50332E85.8060106@itforchange.net> <50333A5C.7060908@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD21F9B4D@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <5038BD70.7080909@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD22082FD@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <503F0CA3.3020801@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220B5DE@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <504853B4.6080300@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220ED52@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: <504C3775.10709@itforchange.net> On Thursday 06 September 2012 10:42 PM, Milton L Mueller wrote: > > Parminder, your responses are degenerating beyond the point where it > is worth responding. > You are just getting desperate, Milton... > > You seem to be more interested in playing rhetorical games than in > reaching agreement or improving understanding. > Meaning, rather than simply agreeing with your most untenable proposition about parity of application of jurisdiction over ICANN between US and all other 191 states. > I will point out the reasons I say these things and then suspend any > further communication with you on these issues > > */[Milton L Mueller] Any law from ANY jurisdiction constraining or > dictating ICANN’s action would have global effect, insofar as the > global Internet relies on ICANN to administer the DNS./* > > > Milton, In face of clear facts to the contrary, you continue to claim > that EU's, India's, Ghana's, all of 192 government's, jurisdictions > have similar implication and impact on ICANN. I dont think I need to > labour to disprove this patently absurd proposition. > > ØRead my sentence, which is a conditional statement and says that if > "any law from any jurisdiction" > > Øcould "constrain or dictate ICANN's action" it would have global effect. > Your above statement - 'If' any law from any jurisdiction 'could' constrain or dictate ICANN's action, it would have global effect - says nothing at all other that that 'ICANN's actions have global effect', something which no one disputes. What other meaning does this sentence carry? What is under disputation is - laws from '*/which/*' jurisdiction can constraint or dictate ICANN's '/*global*/' actions? You say that laws from all 192 country jurisdictions have the 'same' (or at least similar) effect as from US's jurisdiction of 'constraining or dictating ICANN's /*global*/ action'. This is what I call as a /*patently absurd proposition. */ > But just to continue with the present discussion on the .xxx case, > even if the ICM registry was * not* US based, the porn industry majors > could/ would have brought the case against ICANN for instituting .xxx > (since the registry would of course have serviced domain name demands > from the US among others). ICANN would still be forced to defend > itself in the case, and if it lost the case to annul or modify .xxx > agreement. > > ØI have asked you two questions related to this that you have > steadfastly ducked: > > Ø1) Do you think ICANN should be immune from antitrust? Yes or no. > Of course ICANN should be subject to all kinds of public interest laws, as every entity should be - anti-trust, but also others, like those aimed at preserving and deepening public domain..... ( thus being prevented from giving off generic names like school, kid, beauty, cloud etc as private tlds). > Ø2) What stops such a case from being brought in the EU? ICANN has > offices in Brussels, and its "service" or operations could be > considered global, thus in the EU. > First of all, you are cleverly skipping examples of India, Ghana and Bangladesh that I used, and only employing EU's case becuase ICANN has an office there... Your argument can be challenged simply on this ground, what about the other countries, especially the developing ones where ICANN chooses not to have an office. (Equity, Milton, equity, dont lose sight of this simple democratic value!) On the other hand, even if ICANN has a Brussels office, this fact does not put EU's jurisdiction over ICANN anywhere close to a similar level to US's. Apart from the fact that, if the push comes to shove, ICANN can simply close or shift Brussels office, offshore offices have often claimed lack of control over and accountability for parent bodies decisions vis a vis the jurisdictions in which they are located. (This is well known, but if you want examples, I can give them.) > It does not take a political scientist to understand that the same is > not true vis a vis the jurisdiction of any other of 192 countries. > > ØYou have not made any argument to explain why this is true. You have > merely asserted it. > No, I did make a clear argument using the scenario of an .xxx related case being brought in a Bangladesh court. Pl see my last email to which you respond. But you completely ignored that argument. > ØThe US antitrust case is in fact no different from an antitrust case > that might be brought in the EU, > Completely wrong. For such a case brought in the EU, even if .xxx registry was based in EU, (1) ICANN is not obliged to defend the case (2) even if .xxx was to lose the case, it is the registry that will have to renege from the ICANN agreement, ICANN would have to do 'nothing'. However if the case is lost in the US, ICANN itself has to undertake certain actions- and also keep the judicial verdict in mind for future actions - something which is incongruent with ICANN's global governance status. That is the point. On the other hand, and I said this in the previous email as well, which you seem to read selectively, even if .xxx registry was not in the US, the porn industry could still have brought the case to a US court against ICANN- .xxx agreement, which is simply not possible vis a vis any other country jurisdiction. > ØIf indeed ICANN were engaged in restraint of the domain name trade in > conjunction with a EU-based > > Øregistry, the effect would be exactly the same in both cases. ICANN's > status as a California Corp. > > Ømakes no difference here. > see above > > snip > > And if it indeed is already subject to 192 jurisdiction, even > efficiency, since you dont recognise issues of equity and democracy > > ØYou lost me here. I am the one in favor of democracy (e.g., election > of ICANN board), you are the one in favor of control by states. > I am glad to have an elected board if you can assemble the electorate in a manner that is equitous and then ensure fair polling. Please tell me your proposal. As for 'control by the states' I am happy to have any kind of direct democracy not only in IG space but also all other spaces of global governance (your view on this please). And till we have it, instead of one country dictating to the world, representational democracy will do (while all efforts at national and international level should be kept up to see that these purported 'representatives' are indeed democratically so). Imperfect democracy and representativity cannot be taken as an excuse for perpetuating hegemony and one-country dictatorship. with regards parminder > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 05:34:58 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2012 12:34:58 +0300 Subject: [governance] UNDESA In-Reply-To: <4EEF79DE-2D77-4BB7-860A-65806C13CC90@uzh.ch> References: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD282@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <8CF5BD2D855290A-EF0-2BFA8@webmail-m014.sysops.aol.com> <4EEF79DE-2D77-4BB7-860A-65806C13CC90@uzh.ch> Message-ID: <504C62C2.8070602@gmail.com> Power politics rules. Kinda like the US with Bush and Bolton that saw the dumping of the Development Decades and the launch of the easy to measure Millennium Development Goals (of course putting an ex-CIA person to run it) so this is just par for the course, so to speak... On 2012/09/08 03:49 PM, William Drake wrote: > China pays only 3.189% of the UN budget but apparently has a lock on > the UnderSec General slot, pretty bon marché for the world's second > largest economy…. > > Bill > > > On Sep 8, 2012, at 2:16 PM, Koven Ronald wrote: > >> Wolfgang -- >> >> What do you reckon this means in policy terms affecting cyber-freedom ? >> >> Bests, Rony >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: "Kleinwächter, Wolf >> gang" > > >> To: governance > > >> Sent: Sat, Sep 8, 2012 1:26 pm >> Subject: [governance] UNDESA >> >> FYI >> >> http://www.un.org/en/development/desa/usg/index.shtml >> >> wolfgang >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email:http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From jeremy at ciroap.org Sun Sep 9 07:38:58 2012 From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 07:38:58 -0400 Subject: [governance] Best Bits - 3-4 November, Days Hotel, Baku, Azerbaijan Message-ID: Following on from my earlier "save the date" message, I would like to confirm that "Best Bits", a strategic gathering of NGOs around Internet governance and Internet principles, will be taking place at the Days Hotel, Azerbaijan on 3-4 November 2012, and that Internet Governance Caucus members are warmly invited to participate. There is a website (currently a pad, though that may change) for the event at http://igf-online.net/bestbits and a mailing list at http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/bestbits. The main motivation for this meeting was the recognition by a number of individuals and groups of the potential benefits of a "big tent" gathering that would bring together NGOs and experts from global North and South who are working on Internet policy advocacy from different perspectives, and who could benefit from broadening both their input and their outreach through an event like this. Rather than detracting from the diversity of these approaches, the event will seek to share and build upon the "best bits" of each of them. But rather than "just" networking, tangible outputs are also expected from the event: firstly finalisation of the civil society statement of Internet governance principles that we announced our intention to draft at last year's IGF (coordinated by Wolfgang Kleinwächter), and a statement to the ITU WCIT on the revision of the ITRs (coordinated by Bill Drake). We are also soliciting background briefing papers on the topics of discussion that Andrew Puddephatt will be compiling as a resource for those attending. Please visit http://igf-online.net/bestbits to read more about the agenda for the meeting, and the motivations behind it. In lieu of a formal registration form, you can add your name to the pad if you will be coming. At this stage no further requests for travel assistance are likely to be able to be considered, as a number of existing requests are still pending, so you are asked to cover your own travel expenses. However you can benefit from our group rate at the hotel (contact me about this), and the IGF's visa on arrival procedure. Please feel free to share this announcement through your other networks. Thanks, and we look forward to seeing many of you at Best Bits and the IGF. -- Dr Jeremy Malcolm Senior Policy Officer Consumers International | the global campaigning voice for consumers Office for Asia-Pacific and the Middle East Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Tel: +60 3 7726 1599 Your rights, our mission – download CI's Strategy 2015: http://consint.info/RightsMission @Consumers_Int | www.consumersinternational.org | www.facebook.com/consumersinternational Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From bdelachapelle at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 08:52:10 2012 From: bdelachapelle at gmail.com (Bertrand de La Chapelle) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 14:52:10 +0200 Subject: [governance] UNDESA In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD282@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> References: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD282@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> Message-ID: Successor to Sha Zukang ... (Mr "the IGF is uniiiiique") B. On Sat, Sep 8, 2012 at 1:25 PM, "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" < wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de> wrote: > FYI > > http://www.un.org/en/development/desa/usg/index.shtml > > wolfgang > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- ____________________ Bertrand de La Chapelle Internet & Jurisdiction Project Director, International Diplomatic Academy ( www.internetjurisdiction.net) Member, ICANN Board of Directors Tel : +33 (0)6 11 88 33 32 "Le plus beau métier des hommes, c'est d'unir les hommes" Antoine de Saint Exupéry ("there is no greater mission for humans than uniting humans") -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 14:50:57 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 06:50:57 +1200 Subject: [governance] FRIENDLY REMINDER Evaluating the IGC [Survey 1 of 2012] Message-ID: Dear All, This is a friendly reminder that we will be closing the Survey soon and it is important for you to have your say in assessing whether the IGC is meeting its objectives under the Charter. This Survey will run till the 13th September, 2012. Thank you to those who have filled in the Survey. For those that have yet to do so, please take the time to fill it: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/IGCEvaluation Kind Regards, Sala On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 10:55 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear All, > > This survey is designed to extract feedback from the IGC. It is designed > to evaluate how the IGC is facilitating the Objectives under the > Charter.There are 10 questions. The Survey will run from the 6th > September, 2012 to the 13th September, 2012. > > You can access the Survey via > https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/IGCEvaluation > > I encourage everyone to find time to complete this Survey. > > I would also like to acknowledge and thank Chaitanya Dhareshwar one of our > new subscribers to the IGC from India for volunteering to put the questions > into the Survey Monkey. > > Kind Regards > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 15:10:24 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 07:10:24 +1200 Subject: [governance] #UN members /was Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling .... Message-ID: Hi, I just thought I should point out that there are 193 members of the UN, see http://www.un.org/en/members/growth.shtml with South Sudan being its most recent inclusion in 2011. Kind Regards, Sala -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From qshatti at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 16:00:32 2012 From: qshatti at gmail.com (Qusai AlShatti) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 23:00:32 +0300 Subject: [governance] Fellowship Program for the First Arab IGF Meeting in Kuwait In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear All: We would like to announce the fellowship program for the first Arab IGF meeting in Kuwait. Find attached two documents: The fellowship eligibility document and Applicantion. Applicants who would require support to attend the first Arab IGF meeting They should read the eligibility document, fill the application and forward it to the following email: fellowships at igfarab.org . We would like to note that the fellowship program covers only accomodation and/or air travel. Any further expenses are not included. We would like to note also that the fellowship program have limited funding, Best Regards, Qusai AlShatti -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Arab IGF Fellowship Application_0609.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 34412 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Arab IGF Fellowship Program_0609.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 35178 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From lmcknigh at syr.edu Sun Sep 9 16:41:01 2012 From: lmcknigh at syr.edu (Lee W McKnight) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 20:41:01 +0000 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: <504C3775.10709@itforchange.net> References: <50332E85.8060106@itforchange.net> <50333A5C.7060908@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD21F9B4D@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <5038BD70.7080909@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD22082FD@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <503F0CA3.3020801@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220B5DE@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <504853B4.6080300@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220ED52@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>,<504C3775.10709@itforchange.net> Message-ID: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B135E25@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> Hey Parminder, If Milton's signing off, I'll sign on for one more attempt. My aim is not to encourage lawsuits against the hegemon's proxy ICANN - but I feel them coming on anyway, with the .xxx one just the tip of the hegemon's melting iceberg. (I'm enjoying this 70s flashback, don't get to use the word hegemon twice in one sentence often these days : ) So here's my free legal counsel for you: anyone anywhere can play. Just as there was nothing to prevent Google or Yahoo, or earlier Compuserve being taken to court in France or Brazil, or Germany and Italy, and senior executives threatened, tried, sentenced and/or subject to arrest if they set foot in those countries - meaning even if they had no staff there, but just passed through say the Frankfurt airport, or stopped in Rome for a vacation - so too could ICANN staff be subject to arrest; and ICANN fined for example, should it not obey a court order in Pakistan or India or anywhere else. We can review the specific circumstances in the various cases I mentioned in passing if you want, but basically the message is as the Internet and Internet services pervades more deeply into all nation's daily lives, then we should not be surprised when ICANN is, eventually, challenged in various nation's courts. Most readily where the organization has an establishment, meaning staff as in Brussels and Australia. But even absent staff presence, I could roll out 100 hypothetical scenarios on how ICANN decisions could be challenged, in Pakistani or Indian, or Brunei's, really any nation's legal system. Just cuz it's a non-profit with a SoCal HQ does not mean the organization is exempt from - any - legal sanction, anywhere. Whether the balance of power over the administration of changes to the root zone file, and/or the creation of this or that new gtld, should be a matter of hundreds of national jurisdictions, or handled through some form of global collective action, is indeed the question. But while I am practicing law without a license here, as the saying goes in US domestic politics, at least I am making reality based statements. Every single thing ICANN does could be challenged in any national court. Winning a case, and/or explaining to a judge or jury why a case was brought, is of course never a sure thing. But the ability in principle of Indian courts to rule on cases in which Indian citizens, businesses, and/or government agencies claim injury, is not in any way impaired by the location of ICANN's HQ. ICANN, on the other hand, if established under international public or private law, could indeed gain various immunities, which its actions do not now enjoy. Milton's 100% right to say careful what we wish for here, since moving to a treaty or international convention as the source of ICANN's legal status, could just as easily make ICANN less responsive as more responsive to national jurisdictions, and individuals. ANY national jurisdiction. But that is a possibility and not a certainty, as it would depend on the specifics agreed to by nations signing onto that hypothetical treaty. If you don't believe me, just ask any practicing international (private) lawyer. I'm guessing her answer would be another question: how deep are your pockets? : ) But anyone with enough money to make the challenge to for example - any - gtld string, can follow ICANN procedures, or they can turn to their own national courts. Although those courts might find it annoying if they are dragged into the middle of an arcane dispute if remedies from within the ICANN system were not exhausted first. Unfortunately, like I said some time back, this whole dialogue has gotten - more or less nowhere - since apparently it is more fun to flash back to the 80s or hegemonic 70s than try to make sense of what should be done next, to align ICANN and other elements of Internet governance more closely with all of the global communities that are affected by those decisions. Since there has been no new or original suggestions made, then we do seem to be stuck in a time warp. A domestic US non-profit corporation, albeit one that strives mightily to - should I say sucker, or invite? : ) - people from around the world to do the heavy volunteer lifting to keep the global net up and operating, is the main game in the global Internet governance village, still. Seeing as apparently noone has a better idea, or has even concrete suggestions on how to get from here to there, there being a more globally equitable future, then yeah we are stuck. Bummer. Or maybe, I repeat again, this dialogue, while at times fun, really suggests it is time to get serious about Norbert's enhanced cooperation task force idea to figure a way forward. Since none of us are managing to do any better, absent that. imho. If we are counting on the ITU to do so in December....well I got a few virtual bridges for sale that are more solid. Better to give the (IGF-responsive) task force idea a shot, I suggest. Lee ________________________________ From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] on behalf of parminder [parminder at itforchange.net] Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 2:30 AM To: Milton L Mueller Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org Subject: Re: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs On Thursday 06 September 2012 10:42 PM, Milton L Mueller wrote: Parminder, your responses are degenerating beyond the point where it is worth responding. You are just getting desperate, Milton... You seem to be more interested in playing rhetorical games than in reaching agreement or improving understanding. Meaning, rather than simply agreeing with your most untenable proposition about parity of application of jurisdiction over ICANN between US and all other 191 states. I will point out the reasons I say these things and then suspend any further communication with you on these issues [Milton L Mueller] Any law from ANY jurisdiction constraining or dictating ICANN’s action would have global effect, insofar as the global Internet relies on ICANN to administer the DNS. Milton, In face of clear facts to the contrary, you continue to claim that EU's, India's, Ghana's, all of 192 government's, jurisdictions have similar implication and impact on ICANN. I dont think I need to labour to disprove this patently absurd proposition. Ø Read my sentence, which is a conditional statement and says that if "any law from any jurisdiction" Ø could "constrain or dictate ICANN's action" it would have global effect. Your above statement - 'If' any law from any jurisdiction 'could' constrain or dictate ICANN's action, it would have global effect - says nothing at all other that that 'ICANN's actions have global effect', something which no one disputes. What other meaning does this sentence carry? What is under disputation is - laws from 'which' jurisdiction can constraint or dictate ICANN's 'global' actions? You say that laws from all 192 country jurisdictions have the 'same' (or at least similar) effect as from US's jurisdiction of 'constraining or dictating ICANN's global action'. This is what I call as a patently absurd proposition. But just to continue with the present discussion on the .xxx case, even if the ICM registry was * not* US based, the porn industry majors could/ would have brought the case against ICANN for instituting .xxx (since the registry would of course have serviced domain name demands from the US among others). ICANN would still be forced to defend itself in the case, and if it lost the case to annul or modify .xxx agreement. Ø I have asked you two questions related to this that you have steadfastly ducked: Ø 1) Do you think ICANN should be immune from antitrust? Yes or no. Of course ICANN should be subject to all kinds of public interest laws, as every entity should be - anti-trust, but also others, like those aimed at preserving and deepening public domain..... ( thus being prevented from giving off generic names like school, kid, beauty, cloud etc as private tlds). Ø 2) What stops such a case from being brought in the EU? ICANN has offices in Brussels, and its "service" or operations could be considered global, thus in the EU. First of all, you are cleverly skipping examples of India, Ghana and Bangladesh that I used, and only employing EU's case becuase ICANN has an office there... Your argument can be challenged simply on this ground, what about the other countries, especially the developing ones where ICANN chooses not to have an office. (Equity, Milton, equity, dont lose sight of this simple democratic value!) On the other hand, even if ICANN has a Brussels office, this fact does not put EU's jurisdiction over ICANN anywhere close to a similar level to US's. Apart from the fact that, if the push comes to shove, ICANN can simply close or shift Brussels office, offshore offices have often claimed lack of control over and accountability for parent bodies decisions vis a vis the jurisdictions in which they are located. (This is well known, but if you want examples, I can give them.) It does not take a political scientist to understand that the same is not true vis a vis the jurisdiction of any other of 192 countries. Ø You have not made any argument to explain why this is true. You have merely asserted it. No, I did make a clear argument using the scenario of an .xxx related case being brought in a Bangladesh court. Pl see my last email to which you respond. But you completely ignored that argument. Ø The US antitrust case is in fact no different from an antitrust case that might be brought in the EU, Completely wrong. For such a case brought in the EU, even if .xxx registry was based in EU, (1) ICANN is not obliged to defend the case (2) even if .xxx was to lose the case, it is the registry that will have to renege from the ICANN agreement, ICANN would have to do 'nothing'. However if the case is lost in the US, ICANN itself has to undertake certain actions- and also keep the judicial verdict in mind for future actions - something which is incongruent with ICANN's global governance status. That is the point. On the other hand, and I said this in the previous email as well, which you seem to read selectively, even if .xxx registry was not in the US, the porn industry could still have brought the case to a US court against ICANN- .xxx agreement, which is simply not possible vis a vis any other country jurisdiction. Ø If indeed ICANN were engaged in restraint of the domain name trade in conjunction with a EU-based Ø registry, the effect would be exactly the same in both cases. ICANN's status as a California Corp. Ø makes no difference here. see above snip And if it indeed is already subject to 192 jurisdiction, even efficiency, since you dont recognise issues of equity and democracy Ø You lost me here. I am the one in favor of democracy (e.g., election of ICANN board), you are the one in favor of control by states. I am glad to have an elected board if you can assemble the electorate in a manner that is equitous and then ensure fair polling. Please tell me your proposal. As for 'control by the states' I am happy to have any kind of direct democracy not only in IG space but also all other spaces of global governance (your view on this please). And till we have it, instead of one country dictating to the world, representational democracy will do (while all efforts at national and international level should be kept up to see that these purported 'representatives' are indeed democratically so). Imperfect democracy and representativity cannot be taken as an excuse for perpetuating hegemony and one-country dictatorship. with regards parminder -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 19:52:46 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 11:52:46 +1200 Subject: [governance] Brainstorming [Improvements to IGC Coordination on IG Policies] #Working Groups Message-ID: Dear All, As you can imagine, we are constantly faced with the challenges of improving the manner in which we coordinate advocacy in policy areas pertaining to Internet Governance. Following the current evaluation of the IGC, we will issue another Survey to generate suggestions on how we can improve out internal coordination as the IGC. Things like developing positions on Policy areas. The IGC has following consensus developed positions on certain areas such as Freedom of Expression, Remote Participation, Human Rights etc. Noting that with critical forums looming namely, the IGF and other forums that will require global input from the IGC, I have put together some thoughts. Let me have your comments. *Background* Following the recent Survey conducted by the IGC there is consensus that there is a need to enhance the coordination of advocacy of critical Internet Governance issues in key Forums aside from the IGF. As such, we would like to gather your views about how we are going to go about achieving the same. The WGIG 2005 Report had identified 4 Public Policy Clusters namely[1]<#_ftn1> :- a) (a) Issues Relating to Infrastructure and Management of Critical Internet Resources, including administration of domain name systems and Internet Protocol Addresses, Administration of the root server system, technical standards, peering and interconnection, telecommunications infrastructure, including innovative and convergent technologies, as well as multilingualization; b) (b) Issues relating to the use of the Internet including spam, network security and cyber crime; c) (c.) Issues that are relevant to the Internet but have an impact much wider than the Internet such as Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) and International Trade; d) (d.) Issues relating to the developmental aspects of Internet Governance in particular capacity building in developing countries. The WGIG then highlighted critical policy areas for the attention of the WSIS[2] <#_ftn2>. The Table below illustrates the Policy Cluster as well as the policy issues. *No.* *#* *POLICY AREAS* *POLICY CLUSTER* 1 Administration of the Root Zones, Files and Systems a 2 Interconnection Costs a 3 Allocation of Domain Names a 4 IP Addressing a 5 Multilingualism a 6 Internet Stability, Security and Cyber Crime b 7 Spam b 8 Intellectual Property Rights c 9 Meaningful Participation in Global Policy Development a, b, c, d 10 Capacity Building A,b,c,d 11 Freedom of Expression A,b,c,d 12 Data Protection and Privacy Rights A,b,c,d 13 Consumer Rights A,b,c,d *Working Groups* Having read the feedback from the Survey that was done by Norbert Bollow some time ago, it is clear that it is far more beneficial to develop positions on key issues prior to deciding which forums the IGC is going to engage in. The Working Groups will mean that interested IGC subscribers can volunteer their names to be part of the Working Group. They can also volunteer to lead the Groups. For now it will be good if we agreed on a model for coordination, enlist volunteers etc. *Focus of Working Groups* Working Groups can be tasked to do the following in each of their Policy Areas, namely:- 1. *Create a repository of all submissions and Statements made by the IGC or other Civil Society organizations: *This can be done by going through the ListServe Archives, UN Publications etc; 2. *Identify the issues:* What the issues are? Have these been addressed? Recommendations 3. *Identify Forums for Advocacy:* presentation of the IGC position 4. *Preparation of an Information Paper : *summary of issues, advocacy options 5. *Generating Discussion:* Generating Discussion with the IGC and assisting the IGC in formulating consensus position in the policy area There are a few options available to the IGC and that is whether we would like to have Working Groups that is based on the Policy Clusters could mean something like this. Please note that the Policy Clusters are far more expansive and include things like International Trade and issues tabled for discussions in relation to the WCIT. *Model 1* *Working Group* *Policy Cluster Description* *Policy Areas* A Issues Relating to Infrastructure and Management of Critical Internet Resources, including administration of domain name systems and Internet Protocol Addresses, Administration of the root server system, technical standards, peering and interconnection, telecommunications infrastructure, including innovative and convergent technologies, as well as multilingualization #1, #2, #3, #4, #5 B Issues relating to the use of the Internet including spam, network security and cyber crime; #6, #7 C Issues that are relevant to the Internet but have an impact much wider than the Internet such as Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) and International Trade #8, #9, #10, #11, #12, #13 d Issues relating to the developmental aspects of Internet Governance in particular capacity building in developing countries #8, #9, #10, #11, #12, #13 * * *Model 2* To have 13 Working Groups to specifically work in the following policy areas. *No.* *#* *POLICY AREAS* *POLICY CLUSTER* 1 Administration of the Root Zones, Files and Systems a 2 Interconnection Costs a 3 Allocation of Domain Names a 4 IP Addressing a 5 Multilingualism a 6 Internet Stability, Security and Cyber Crime b 7 Spam b 8 Intellectual Property Rights c 9 Meaningful Participation in Global Policy Development a, b, c, d 10 Capacity Building A,b,c,d 11 Freedom of Expression A,b,c,d 12 Data Protection and Privacy Rights A,b,c,d 13 Consumer Rights A,b,c,d * * ------------------------------ [1] <#_ftnref1> Report of the Working Group on Internet Governance 2005, Chateau de Bossey in http://www.wgig.org/docs/WGIGREPORT.pdf [2] <#_ftnref2> ibid -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Mon Sep 10 01:51:02 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 17:51:02 +1200 Subject: [governance] Congratulations Charles Mok from the IGC! #Hong Kong Elections Message-ID: Dear All, Please join me in warmly congratulating Charles Mok who has just won a seat of the Information Technology Functional Constituency for the Hong Kong Legislative Council with 2, 828 votes, against Samson Tam his only opponent (2063) votes. I am super glad that Hong Kong has a dynamic, intelligent, hard working advocate as one of its Legislative Councillor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Mok With every best wish Charles! Sala On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 3:42 PM, Charles Mok (gmail) wrote: > Similar happened in HK yesterday and about 10 social activists including > one opposition legislator had their fb accounts suspended for a few hours. > I contacted fb public policy people and around the same time their > accounts gradually came back unblocked. fb has not provided clear > explanation of the reasons. > > English report: (paid content) > > http://www.scmp.com/portal/site/SCMP/menuitem.2c913216495213d5df646910cba0a0a0/?vgnextoid=445f1383709a7310VgnVCM100000360a0a0aRCRD&vgnextfmt=teaser&ss=Hong+Kong&s=News > > Widely reported in Chinese newspapers also. > > Charles > > > On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 9:00 AM, michael gurstein wrote: > >> Oksana, >> >> Why/on whose orders/recommendation were they blocked? >> >> M >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org >> [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Oksana >> Prykhodko >> Sent: Friday, June 01, 2012 6:24 PM >> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; William Drake >> Subject: Re: [governance] Facebook profiles blocked and content removed in >> Brazil >> >> >> Hi, all >> >> Today Facebook blocked accounts of nearly 10 Ukrainian independent >> journalists. But, after active campaign in social media and addresses to >> Facebook CEO, these accounts were unblocked. >> >> May be it is time to think about ombudsmen for social media - as a >> mediator >> between users and CEO? >> >> Best regards, >> Oksana >> >> 2012/6/1 William Drake : >> > Hi Marilia >> > >> > >> > On May 31, 2012, at 11:28 PM, Marilia Maciel wrote: >> > >> > I am totally in favor of achieving "harmony" on this and other topics. >> > But this is a crossborder issue that involves private forces and >> > public interest. Tell me the place where we can globally tackle this >> > issue, all together, in a multistakeholder fashion and I will be the >> > first to attend and try to contribute so that “harmony” can come >> > about. But first we probably need to fight for such a space to exist. >> > >> > >> > I guess I'm with Roland and others who'd note that the Internet is not >> > the web and the web is not FB, so while FB's TOR are overly paranoid >> > and restrictive, there are other places to post stuff, and it's at >> > least debatable whether this rises to the level of being global >> > Internet governance. But I have different questions. In >> > conversations in Geneva and here (and the IT4C letter did the same), >> > you've cited FB policies as evidence there's an urgent need for >> > enhanced cooperation in the form of a platform under the UN. But why >> > not organize an online campaign---per ACTA SOPA PIPA—of fellow FB >> > users to put pressure on FB directly (and for that matter, use the IGF >> > in parallel to stoke the debate), rather than creating a centralized >> > uber mechanism responsible for this and all else? >> > Why do you think a WG/CIRP/whatever that would be populated inter alia >> by >> > Geneva reps of the very governments that make FB paranoid in the first >> place >> > would be more likely to agree that nudity is ok and FB should allow it >> > without fear of government reprisals? >> > >> > There are many CS and other actors who share your concerns about >> > individual issues---FoE IPR privacy surveillance etc---and the meta >> > issue of concentrated power but just have trouble seeing a one-stop >> > shop in the UN as the right solution. Since the case for why it would >> > be really hasn't been made in any detail, isn't there a risk that >> > insisting it's the only option left-minded people may consider (and in >> > some tellings, that any nonbelievers are morally suspect, don't care >> > about developing countries, etc) just limits coalition building? Can >> > we agree that at the Baku pre-event and beyond, it'd be useful to work >> > through the relative merits of different institutional designs? >> > Personally, I've always favored WGs in the IGF & >> > strengthening/connecting advocacy coalitions working in different >> > spaces (although as the APC network of networks effort showed, that's >> > difficult), but there are other options, a new UN body being just one. >> > So let's compare and contrast? >> > >> > Best, >> > >> > Bill >> > >> > >> > >> > ____________________________________________________________ >> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> > governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> > To be removed from the list, visit: >> > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> > >> > For all other list information and functions, see: >> > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> > http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> > >> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> > >> >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From naveedpta at hotmail.com Mon Sep 10 02:13:21 2012 From: naveedpta at hotmail.com (Naveed haq) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 06:13:21 +0000 Subject: [governance] Congratulations Charles Mok from the IGC! #Hong Kong Elections In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would be joining Sala here to pay a deep appreciation and congratualtions to Charles Mok. A well deserved and bright win for people of Hong Kong. ! I wish him all the best for future endeavours. Best Regards, Naveed. Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 17:51:02 +1200 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; charlespmok at gmail.com Subject: [governance] Congratulations Charles Mok from the IGC! #Hong Kong Elections Dear All, Please join me in warmly congratulating Charles Mok who has just won a seat of the Information Technology Functional Constituency for the Hong Kong Legislative Council with 2, 828 votes, against Samson Tam his only opponent (2063) votes. I am super glad that Hong Kong has a dynamic, intelligent, hard working advocate as one of its Legislative Councillor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Mok With every best wish Charles! Sala On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 3:42 PM, Charles Mok (gmail) wrote: Similar happened in HK yesterday and about 10 social activists including one opposition legislator had their fb accounts suspended for a few hours. I contacted fb public policy people and around the same time their accounts gradually came back unblocked. fb has not provided clear explanation of the reasons. English report: (paid content) http://www.scmp.com/portal/site/SCMP/menuitem.2c913216495213d5df646910cba0a0a0/?vgnextoid=445f1383709a7310VgnVCM100000360a0a0aRCRD&vgnextfmt=teaser&ss=Hong+Kong&s=News Widely reported in Chinese newspapers also. Charles On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 9:00 AM, michael gurstein wrote: Oksana, Why/on whose orders/recommendation were they blocked? M -----Original Message----- From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Oksana Prykhodko Sent: Friday, June 01, 2012 6:24 PM To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; William Drake Subject: Re: [governance] Facebook profiles blocked and content removed in Brazil Hi, all Today Facebook blocked accounts of nearly 10 Ukrainian independent journalists. But, after active campaign in social media and addresses to Facebook CEO, these accounts were unblocked. May be it is time to think about ombudsmen for social media - as a mediator between users and CEO? Best regards, Oksana 2012/6/1 William Drake : > Hi Marilia > > > On May 31, 2012, at 11:28 PM, Marilia Maciel wrote: > > I am totally in favor of achieving "harmony" on this and other topics. > But this is a crossborder issue that involves private forces and > public interest. Tell me the place where we can globally tackle this > issue, all together, in a multistakeholder fashion and I will be the > first to attend and try to contribute so that “harmony” can come > about. But first we probably need to fight for such a space to exist. > > > I guess I'm with Roland and others who'd note that the Internet is not > the web and the web is not FB, so while FB's TOR are overly paranoid > and restrictive, there are other places to post stuff, and it's at > least debatable whether this rises to the level of being global > Internet governance. But I have different questions. In > conversations in Geneva and here (and the IT4C letter did the same), > you've cited FB policies as evidence there's an urgent need for > enhanced cooperation in the form of a platform under the UN. But why > not organize an online campaign---per ACTA SOPA PIPA—of fellow FB > users to put pressure on FB directly (and for that matter, use the IGF > in parallel to stoke the debate), rather than creating a centralized > uber mechanism responsible for this and all else? > Why do you think a WG/CIRP/whatever that would be populated inter alia by > Geneva reps of the very governments that make FB paranoid in the first place > would be more likely to agree that nudity is ok and FB should allow it > without fear of government reprisals? > > There are many CS and other actors who share your concerns about > individual issues---FoE IPR privacy surveillance etc---and the meta > issue of concentrated power but just have trouble seeing a one-stop > shop in the UN as the right solution. Since the case for why it would > be really hasn't been made in any detail, isn't there a risk that > insisting it's the only option left-minded people may consider (and in > some tellings, that any nonbelievers are morally suspect, don't care > about developing countries, etc) just limits coalition building? Can > we agree that at the Baku pre-event and beyond, it'd be useful to work > through the relative merits of different institutional designs? > Personally, I've always favored WGs in the IGF & > strengthening/connecting advocacy coalitions working in different > spaces (although as the APC network of networks effort showed, that's > difficult), but there are other options, a new UN body being just one. > So let's compare and contrast? > > Best, > > Bill > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Mon Sep 10 02:27:21 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 11:57:21 +0530 Subject: [governance] Congratulations Charles Mok from the IGC! #Hong Kong Elections In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Congratulations Charles!! A well earned victory indeed; HK's future is bright!! -Chaitanya On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 11:21 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear All, > > Please join me in warmly congratulating Charles Mok who has just won a > seat of the Information Technology Functional Constituency for the Hong > Kong Legislative Council with 2, 828 votes, against Samson Tam his only > opponent (2063) votes. > > I am super glad that Hong Kong has a dynamic, intelligent, hard working > advocate as one of its Legislative Councillor. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Mok > > With every best wish Charles! > > Sala > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From zads911 at msn.com Mon Sep 10 02:36:57 2012 From: zads911 at msn.com (Mohamed zahran) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 06:36:57 +0000 Subject: [governance] Congratulations Charles Mok from the IGC! #Hong Kong Elections In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Congratulations Charles, Regards, Mohamed Zahran Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 11:57:21 +0530 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com CC: charlespmok at gmail.com Subject: Re: [governance] Congratulations Charles Mok from the IGC! #Hong Kong Elections Congratulations Charles!! A well earned victory indeed; HK's future is bright!! -Chaitanya On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 11:21 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote: Dear All, Please join me in warmly congratulating Charles Mok who has just won a seat of the Information Technology Functional Constituency for the Hong Kong Legislative Council with 2, 828 votes, against Samson Tam his only opponent (2063) votes. I am super glad that Hong Kong has a dynamic, intelligent, hard working advocate as one of its Legislative Councillor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Mok With every best wish Charles! Sala -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Mon Sep 10 03:27:07 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 10:27:07 +0300 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B135E25@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> References: <50332E85.8060106@itforchange.net> <50333A5C.7060908@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD21F9B4D@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <5038BD70.7080909@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD22082FD@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <503F0CA3.3020801@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220B5DE@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <504853B4.6080300@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220ED52@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>,<504C3775.10709@itforchange.net> <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B135E25@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: <504D964B.3050309@gmail.com> On 2012/09/09 11:41 PM, Lee W McKnight wrote: > ICANN, on the other hand, if established under international public or > private law, could indeed gain various immunities, which its actions > do not now enjoy. Milton's 100% right to say careful what we wish for > here, since moving to a treaty or international convention as the > source of ICANN's legal status, could just as easily make ICANN less > responsive as more responsive to national jurisdictions, and > individuals. ANY national jurisdiction. But that is a possibility and > not a certainty, as it would depend on the specifics agreed to by > nations signing onto that hypothetical treaty. Of course there is an indeterminacy in these arrangements. Question is, is it legitimate (albeit effective)? ICANN enjoys the discretion of complying or not. At national levels court's may refuse to even hear a case over which it will render an "empty judgement" - hence issues of jurisdiction and effective enforcement would play up here to even ensure legal standing. So the sufficiency of the argument on national (other than US) control is much more complicated than at first sight. > > If you don't believe me, just ask any practicing international > (private) lawyer. I'm guessing her answer would be another question: > how deep are your pockets? : ) But anyone with enough money to make > the challenge to for example - any - gtld string, can follow ICANN > procedures, or they can turn to their own national courts. Although > those courts might find it annoying if they are dragged into the > middle of an arcane dispute if remedies from within the ICANN system > were not exhausted first. Question, would I be wrong to read this as a veiled anti-multilateralism position? I ask because if it is then it is merely a variation of the US exceptionalism view. If it is not then there are transformative reform possibilities - and these need to address the non-binding nature of the IGF (and the posse of marginalisation that typically - hope this is not too strong a term - actively marginalises this issue) as well as other paths to change (different roots, non-governmental control flowering autonomous control, enhanced cooperation, etc). These are matters of refined judgement. Based on what line one takes - reformist reform (accomodation - based largely on the ICANN - or USG - won't/can't change view), tranformative reform (as claimed by Pisanty et al) and radical reform (as claimed by Parminder) [categorisation based on my reading _only_] and here we may well have a fork in the road. Aside from the contest of ideas, on a practical level, the issue is there sufficient representation of these diverse views, are they cultivated and nurtured or are some more equal than others. [Where we may differ of course is on first principles, i.e. is legitimacy a valid grounds upon which to make a claim - and while not explicit, these reformist reform positions put this to question (which is the fork in the road where company does part).... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From pouzin at well.com Mon Sep 10 04:01:21 2012 From: pouzin at well.com (Louis Pouzin (well)) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 10:01:21 +0200 Subject: [governance] When will ACTA II be fought out ? In-Reply-To: <50499472.7050508@gmail.com> References: <50499472.7050508@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Riaz, Why I think this is the case ? It takes a bit of revisiting some history to set the scene. Who remembers, or has forgotten, the ATT-NSA spying net story between 2002 and 2005 ? You can glance through: https://www.eff.org/files/filenode/att/presskit/ATT_onepager.pdf http://cryptogon.com/?p=877 In a nutshell, an ATT technician discovers in 2002 that the whole ATT backbone traffic (phone, voice, data, web) is mirrored illegally to NSA. Once retired in 2005 he talks to newspapers, and after much effort gets an article in the NYT. EFF files a class action lawsuit against ATT. The Bush admin moves to kill the case, calling the State secret exception. Once Obama elected the new admin legalizes retroactively NSA's spying, and declares immune from prosecution all phone companies involved in tapping. Ergo, Bush or Obama, same tricks. Whatever is illegal becomes legal if the president says so. A first step into dictatorship ? The US is no exception. Many governments have deployed illegal and secret mass surveillance systems. Their motivation is primarily controlling political opponents. Their natural allies (and financial donators) are marketing organisations eager to know everything on everybody, i.e. controlling consumers. If admins need justifications with their parliament (to get a budget) they conjure up terrorism, pedophilia, child protection, obscenity, social disorder, religion, IPR, what have you. It's the sort of decor adequate for painting spying as a public protection acceptable by the population or the political opposition, if any. During the GW Bush admin the first three were the excuse. Now those slogans have lost emotional drive. IPR is the new excuse, supported by the republican opposition and their media lobbies, working on more drastic laws to protect their revenues. Since the market is international the US has to coax other countries to get on the bandwagon and adopt similar legal provisions, .. thus similar control systems (a bonanza for the US surveillance industry), and an easy way for NSA to collect other countries data. Apparently this is part of what's going on under the TPP umbrella. It should be easier for the US to maneuver this limited coalition than the rest of the world. Last July general Keith Alexander, NSA's head, became Cyber Command's Commander. You can google his recent declarations and interviews. He is dead set on security (read spying). It seems DHS was not good enough, as Cyber Command (read NSA) is now to coordinate all US departments for securing ALL networks (read domestic and abroad). Ok, he may have a dream. All that leaves little else to be interpreted other than a determination to build a worldwide mass surveillance system centered in USA. IPR and other opportunistic lures serve as negotiation jokers for aggregating lobbies and other governments in the gang. It will be quite interesting to observe what approach will be taken with China, India, Russia, and EU. ACTA 2012 won't be forgotten any time soon. New convincing arguments for IPR will sound deja vu. The prospect of US controlled mass surveillance will look as attractive as a scarecrow. Then, what else US can offer ? Probably rude arm twisting, a not unusual tactic in real politics. I just read that EFF is up against TPP. Resistance goes on. Cheers, Louis - - - More on the subject http://www.eff.org/legal/cases/att/SER_klein_decl.pdf http://www.eff.org/legal/cases/att/SER_marcus_decl.pdf * The two previous documents were on the web for several years, and have vanished recently *https://www.eff.org/issues/nsa-spying https://www.eff.org/nsa/faq http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ NSA_warrantless_surveillance_controversy http://www.huffingtonpost.com/timothy-karr/one-us-corporations-role-_b_815281.html http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/01/obama-sides-wit/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Klein http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/07/AR2007110700006_pf.html http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/05/70944 http://www.wired.com/politics/onlinerights/news/2007/05/kleininterview http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/01/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-mark-klein-author-of-wiring-up-the-big-brother-machine/ http://www.mainheadlinenews.com/video/qrBapXsLcro http://www.technewsworld.com/story/60204.html http://osdir.com/ml/culture.war.guerrelec/2006-04/msg00040.html http://www.dailytech.com/ATT+Accidentally+Leaks+Incriminating+NSA+Info/article2558.htm http://www.spamdailynews.com/publish/Bush_administration_to_intervene_in_ATT_surveillance_case.asp http://www.infowars.com/att-whistleblower-spy-bill-creates-%E2%80%98infrastructure-for-a-police-state%E2%80%99/ http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=74c_1243652643&c=1 https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/04/obama-doj-worse-than-bush http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/nsa-denies-wired/ - - - On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 8:30 AM, Riaz K Tayob wrote: > Why do you think this is the case? > > On 2012/09/07 03:34 AM, Louis Pouzin (well) wrote: > >> But whatever happens in November, the next USG is unlikely to change >> policy on IPR. Watch out. >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Mon Sep 10 04:17:06 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 11:17:06 +0300 Subject: [governance] When will ACTA II be fought out ? In-Reply-To: References: <50499472.7050508@gmail.com> Message-ID: <504DA202.2020303@gmail.com> Thanks for this... informative and very useful links... I was hoping that middle class America would realise that ONE of the principle means that "good jobs" are lost is through the internationalisation of intellectual property rights... but Ihave no idea what passes for progressives or how issues come to light in these societies so your take is not only useful, but also puts forward some grounds for common interests... It is a pity that more was not done to raise the issue of conflation of domain names and trade marks... Just as a side issue, the close affiliation of govt and telecoms companies also had a material/technological basis - with fibre optics, govt needed to be at the telecom HQs (but I may be wrong)... and with the Bush retrospective legalisation - well that is about the worst thing in legal terms... retrospectivity... On 2012/09/10 11:01 AM, Louis Pouzin (well) wrote: > Hi Riaz, > > Why I think this is the case ? > > It takes a bit of revisiting some history to set the scene. Who > remembers, or has forgotten, the ATT-NSA spying net story between 2002 > and 2005 ? > > You can glance through: > > https://www.eff.org/files/filenode/att/presskit/ATT_onepager.pdf > http://cryptogon.com/?p=877 > > In a nutshell, an ATT technician discovers in 2002 that the whole ATT > backbone traffic (phone, voice, data, web) is mirrored illegally to > NSA. Once retired in 2005 he talks to newspapers, and after much > effort gets an article in the NYT. EFF files a class action lawsuit > against ATT. The Bush admin moves to kill the case, calling the State > secret exception. Once Obama elected the new admin legalizes > retroactively NSA's spying, and declares immune from prosecution all > phone companies involved in tapping. > > Ergo, Bush or Obama, same tricks. Whatever is illegal becomes legal if > the president says so. A first step into dictatorship ? > > The US is no exception. Many governments have deployed illegal and > secret mass surveillance systems. Their motivation is primarily > controlling political opponents. Their natural allies (and financial > donators) are marketing organisations eager to know everything on > everybody, i.e. controlling consumers. > > If admins need justifications with their parliament (to get a budget) > they conjure up terrorism, pedophilia, child protection, obscenity, > social disorder, religion, IPR, what have you. It's the sort of decor > adequate for painting spying as a public protection acceptable by the > population or the political opposition, if any. > > During the GW Bush admin the first three were the excuse. Now those > slogans have lost emotional drive. IPR is the new excuse, supported by > the republican opposition and their media lobbies, working on more > drastic laws to protect their revenues. Since the market is > international the US has to coax other countries to get on the > bandwagon and adopt similar legal provisions, .. thus similar control > systems (a bonanza for the US surveillance industry), and an easy way > for NSA to collect other countries data. > > Apparently this is part of what's going on under the TPP umbrella. It > should be easier for the US to maneuver this limited coalition than > the rest of the world. > > Last July general Keith Alexander, NSA's head, became Cyber Command's > Commander. You can google his recent declarations and interviews. He > is dead set on security (read spying). It seems DHS was not good > enough, as Cyber Command (read NSA) is now to coordinate all US > departments for securing ALL networks (read domestic and abroad). Ok, > he may have a dream. > > All that leaves little else to be interpreted other than a > determination to build a worldwide mass surveillance system centered > in USA. IPR and other opportunistic lures serve as negotiation jokers > for aggregating lobbies and other governments in the gang. > > It will be quite interesting to observe what approach will be taken > with China, India, Russia, and EU. ACTA 2012 won't be forgotten any > time soon. New convincing arguments for IPR will sound deja vu. The > prospect of US controlled mass surveillance will look as attractive as > a scarecrow. Then, what else US can offer ? Probably rude arm > twisting, a not unusual tactic in real politics. > > I just read that EFF is up against TPP. Resistance goes on. > > Cheers, Louis > - - - > > More on the subject > http://www.eff.org/legal/cases/att/SER_klein_decl.pdf > http://www.eff.org/legal/cases/att/SER_marcus_decl.pdf > / The two previous documents were on the web for several years, and > have vanished recently > /https://www.eff.org/issues/nsa-spying > https://www.eff.org/nsa/faq > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ > NSA_warrantless_surveillance_controversy > > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/timothy-karr/one-us-corporations-role-_b_815281.html > http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/01/obama-sides-wit/ > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Klein > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/07/AR2007110700006_pf.html > http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/05/70944 > http://www.wired.com/politics/onlinerights/news/2007/05/kleininterview > http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/01/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-mark-klein-author-of-wiring-up-the-big-brother-machine/ > http://www.mainheadlinenews.com/video/qrBapXsLcro > http://www.technewsworld.com/story/60204.html > http://osdir.com/ml/culture.war.guerrelec/2006-04/msg00040.html > http://www.dailytech.com/ATT+Accidentally+Leaks+Incriminating+NSA+Info/article2558.htm > http://www.spamdailynews.com/publish/Bush_administration_to_intervene_in_ATT_surveillance_case.asp > http://www.infowars.com/att-whistleblower-spy-bill-creates-%E2%80%98infrastructure-for-a-police-state%E2%80%99/ > http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=74c_1243652643&c=1 > https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/04/obama-doj-worse-than-bush > http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/nsa-denies-wired/ > > - - - > On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 8:30 AM, Riaz K Tayob > wrote: > > Why do you think this is the case? > > On 2012/09/07 03:34 AM, Louis Pouzin (well) wrote: > > But whatever happens in November, the next USG is unlikely to > change policy on IPR. Watch out. > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Mon Sep 10 04:41:01 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 20:41:01 +1200 Subject: [governance] When will ACTA II be fought out ? In-Reply-To: <504DA202.2020303@gmail.com> References: <50499472.7050508@gmail.com> <504DA202.2020303@gmail.com> Message-ID: Currently the TPP negotiations, the 14th round is being held in Leesburg, Virginia from September 6-15, 2012 . Today is the day allocated for those who have registered to take part in the Stakeholders discussions. You had to register to participate. You can visit: http://www.ustr.gov/tpp to access highlights and overviews and actual FTAs. It has been reported from other news sources that His Excellency B. Obama wants to conclude the TPP by this year's end. There is an interesting article by Gordon Campbell, see: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1209/S00040/gordon-campbell-on-apec-and-its-significance-for-tpp-talks.htm On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 8:17 PM, Riaz K Tayob wrote: > Thanks for this... informative and very useful links... > > I was hoping that middle class America would realise that ONE of the > principle means that "good jobs" are lost is through the > internationalisation of intellectual property rights... but Ihave no idea > what passes for progressives or how issues come to light in these societies > so your take is not only useful, but also puts forward some grounds for > common interests... > > It is a pity that more was not done to raise the issue of conflation of > domain names and trade marks... > > Just as a side issue, the close affiliation of govt and telecoms companies > also had a material/technological basis - with fibre optics, govt needed to > be at the telecom HQs (but I may be wrong)... and with the Bush > retrospective legalisation - well that is about the worst thing in legal > terms... retrospectivity... > > On 2012/09/10 11:01 AM, Louis Pouzin (well) wrote: > > Hi Riaz, > > Why I think this is the case ? > > It takes a bit of revisiting some history to set the scene. Who remembers, > or has forgotten, the ATT-NSA spying net story between 2002 and 2005 ? > > You can glance through: > > https://www.eff.org/files/filenode/att/presskit/ATT_onepager.pdf > http://cryptogon.com/?p=877 > > In a nutshell, an ATT technician discovers in 2002 that the whole ATT > backbone traffic (phone, voice, data, web) is mirrored illegally to NSA. > Once retired in 2005 he talks to newspapers, and after much effort gets an > article in the NYT. EFF files a class action lawsuit against ATT. The Bush > admin moves to kill the case, calling the State secret exception. Once > Obama elected the new admin legalizes retroactively NSA's spying, and > declares immune from prosecution all phone companies involved in tapping. > > Ergo, Bush or Obama, same tricks. Whatever is illegal becomes legal if the > president says so. A first step into dictatorship ? > > The US is no exception. Many governments have deployed illegal and secret > mass surveillance systems. Their motivation is primarily controlling > political opponents. Their natural allies (and financial donators) are > marketing organisations eager to know everything on everybody, i.e. > controlling consumers. > > If admins need justifications with their parliament (to get a budget) they > conjure up terrorism, pedophilia, child protection, obscenity, social > disorder, religion, IPR, what have you. It's the sort of decor adequate for > painting spying as a public protection acceptable by the population or the > political opposition, if any. > > During the GW Bush admin the first three were the excuse. Now those > slogans have lost emotional drive. IPR is the new excuse, supported by the > republican opposition and their media lobbies, working on more drastic laws > to protect their revenues. Since the market is international the US has to > coax other countries to get on the bandwagon and adopt similar legal > provisions, .. thus similar control systems (a bonanza for the US > surveillance industry), and an easy way for NSA to collect other countries > data. > > Apparently this is part of what's going on under the TPP umbrella. It > should be easier for the US to maneuver this limited coalition than the > rest of the world. > > Last July general Keith Alexander, NSA's head, became Cyber Command's > Commander. You can google his recent declarations and interviews. He is > dead set on security (read spying). It seems DHS was not good enough, as > Cyber Command (read NSA) is now to coordinate all US departments for > securing ALL networks (read domestic and abroad). Ok, he may have a dream. > > All that leaves little else to be interpreted other than a determination > to build a worldwide mass surveillance system centered in USA. IPR and > other opportunistic lures serve as negotiation jokers for aggregating > lobbies and other governments in the gang. > > It will be quite interesting to observe what approach will be taken with > China, India, Russia, and EU. ACTA 2012 won't be forgotten any time soon. > New convincing arguments for IPR will sound deja vu. The prospect of US > controlled mass surveillance will look as attractive as a scarecrow. Then, > what else US can offer ? Probably rude arm twisting, a not unusual tactic > in real politics. > > I just read that EFF is up against TPP. Resistance goes on. > > Cheers, Louis > - - - > > More on the subject > http://www.eff.org/legal/cases/att/SER_klein_decl.pdf > http://www.eff.org/legal/cases/att/SER_marcus_decl.pdf > * The two previous documents were on the web for several years, and have > vanished recently > *https://www.eff.org/issues/nsa-spying > https://www.eff.org/nsa/faq > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ > NSA_warrantless_surveillance_controversy > > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/timothy-karr/one-us-corporations-role-_b_815281.html > http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/01/obama-sides-wit/ > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Klein > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/07/AR2007110700006_pf.html > http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/05/70944 > http://www.wired.com/politics/onlinerights/news/2007/05/kleininterview > > http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/01/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-mark-klein-author-of-wiring-up-the-big-brother-machine/ > http://www.mainheadlinenews.com/video/qrBapXsLcro > http://www.technewsworld.com/story/60204.html > http://osdir.com/ml/culture.war.guerrelec/2006-04/msg00040.html > > http://www.dailytech.com/ATT+Accidentally+Leaks+Incriminating+NSA+Info/article2558.htm > > http://www.spamdailynews.com/publish/Bush_administration_to_intervene_in_ATT_surveillance_case.asp > > http://www.infowars.com/att-whistleblower-spy-bill-creates-%E2%80%98infrastructure-for-a-police-state%E2%80%99/ > http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=74c_1243652643&c=1 > https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/04/obama-doj-worse-than-bush > http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/nsa-denies-wired/ > > - - - > On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 8:30 AM, Riaz K Tayob wrote: > >> Why do you think this is the case? >> >> On 2012/09/07 03:34 AM, Louis Pouzin (well) wrote: >> >>> But whatever happens in November, the next USG is unlikely to change >>> policy on IPR. Watch out. >>> >> >> > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From sonigituekpe at crossriverstate.gov.ng Mon Sep 10 05:16:02 2012 From: sonigituekpe at crossriverstate.gov.ng (Sonigitu Ekpe) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 10:16:02 +0100 Subject: [governance] Congratulations Charles Mok from the IGC! #Hong Kong Elections In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1347268562397084500@crossriverstate.gov.ng> Dear All, The cap fits Charles Mok, hence the overwhelming victory.Congrats Charles. -- Sonigitu Ekpe Project Support Officer[Agriculturist] Cross River Farm Credit Scheme Ministry of Agriculture and Natural Resources 3 Barracks Road P.M.B. 1119 Calabar - Cross River State, Nigeria. Mobile +234 805 0232 469 Office + 234 802 751 0179 "LIFE is all about love and thanksgiving" Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote: > Dear All, > Please join me in warmly congratulating Charles Mok who has just won a seat of the Information Technology Functional Constituency for the Hong Kong Legislative Council with 2, 828 votes, against Samson Tam his only opponent (2063) votes. > I am super glad that Hong Kong has a dynamic, intelligent, hard working advocate as one of its Legislative Councillor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Mok > With every best wish Charles! > Sala > > On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 3:42 PM, Charles Mok (gmail) wrote: > Similar happened in HK yesterday and about 10 social activists including one opposition legislator had their fb accounts suspended for a few hours. I contacted fb public policy people and around the same time their accounts gradually came back unblocked. fb has not provided clear explanation of the reasons. > English report: (paid content) > http://www.scmp.com/portal/site/SCMP/menuitem.2c913216495213d5df646910cba0a0a0/?vgnextoid=445f1383709a7310VgnVCM100000360a0a0aRCRD&vgnextfmt=teaser&ss=Hong+Kong&s=News > Widely reported in Chinese newspapers also. > Charles > > On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 9:00 AM, michael gurstein wrote: > Oksana, > > Why/on whose orders/recommendation were they blocked? > > M > > -----Original Message----- > From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org > [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Oksana Prykhodko > Sent: Friday, June 01, 2012 6:24 PM > To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; William Drake > Subject: Re: [governance] Facebook profiles blocked and content removed in > Brazil > > > Hi, all > > Today Facebook blocked accounts of nearly 10 Ukrainian independent > journalists. But, after active campaign in social media and addresses to > Facebook CEO, these accounts were unblocked. > > May be it is time to think about ombudsmen for social media - as a mediator > between users and CEO? > > Best regards, > Oksana > > 2012/6/1 William Drake : > > Hi Marilia > > > > > > On May 31, 2012, at 11:28 PM, Marilia Maciel wrote: > > > > I am totally in favor of achieving "harmony" on this and other topics. > > But this is a crossborder issue that involves private forces and > > public interest. Tell me the place where we can globally tackle this > > issue, all together, in a multistakeholder fashion and I will be the > > first to attend and try to contribute so that “harmony” can come > > about. But first we probably need to fight for such a space to exist. > > > > > > I guess I'm with Roland and others who'd note that the Internet is not > > the web and the web is not FB, so while FB's TOR are overly paranoid > > and restrictive, there are other places to post stuff, and it's at > > least debatable whether this rises to the level of being global > > Internet governance. But I have different questions. In > > conversations in Geneva and here (and the IT4C letter did the same), > > you've cited FB policies as evidence there's an urgent need for > > enhanced cooperation in the form of a platform under the UN. But why > > not organize an online campaign---per ACTA SOPA PIPA—of fellow FB > > users to put pressure on FB directly (and for that matter, use the IGF > > in parallel to stoke the debate), rather than creating a centralized > > uber mechanism responsible for this and all else? > > Why do you think a WG/CIRP/whatever that would be populated inter alia by > > Geneva reps of the very governments that make FB paranoid in the first > place > > would be more likely to agree that nudity is ok and FB should allow it > > without fear of government reprisals? > > > > There are many CS and other actors who share your concerns about > > individual issues---FoE IPR privacy surveillance etc---and the meta > > issue of concentrated power but just have trouble seeing a one-stop > > shop in the UN as the right solution. Since the case for why it would > > be really hasn't been made in any detail, isn't there a risk that > > insisting it's the only option left-minded people may consider (and in > > some tellings, that any nonbelievers are morally suspect, don't care > > about developing countries, etc) just limits coalition building? Can > > we agree that at the Baku pre-event and beyond, it'd be useful to work > > through the relative merits of different institutional designs? > > Personally, I've always favored WGs in the IGF & > > strengthening/connecting advocacy coalitions working in different > > spaces (although as the APC network of networks effort showed, that's > > difficult), but there are other options, a new UN body being just one. > > So let's compare and contrast? > > > > Best, > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka SalaP.O. Box 17862SuvaFiji > Twitter: @SalanietaTSkype:Salanieta.TamanikaiwaimaroFiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > __________________________________________________________________________ The information contained in this communication is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and others authorized to receive it. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in reliance of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. Kindly destroy this message and notify the sender by replying the email in such instances. We do not accept responsibility for any changes made to this message after it was originally sent and any views, opinions, conclusions or other information in this message which do not relate to the business of this firm or are not authorized by us.The Cross River State Government is not liable neither for the proper and complete transmission of the information contained in this communication nor any delay in its receipt. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From qshatti at gmail.com Mon Sep 10 05:19:22 2012 From: qshatti at gmail.com (Qusai AlShatti) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 12:19:22 +0300 Subject: [governance] Congratulations Charles Mok from the IGC! #Hong Kong Elections In-Reply-To: <1347268562397084500@crossriverstate.gov.ng> References: <1347268562397084500@crossriverstate.gov.ng> Message-ID: Congratulation Charles on your new position and thank you Sala for the announcement. Qusai AlShatti On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 12:16 PM, Sonigitu Ekpe < sonigituekpe at crossriverstate.gov.ng> wrote: > Dear All, > > The cap fits Charles Mok, hence the overwhelming victory. > Congrats Charles. > > -- > Sonigitu Ekpe > *Project Support Officer[Agriculturist]* > Cross River Farm Credit Scheme > Ministry of Agriculture and Natural Resources > 3 Barracks Road P.M.B. 1119 > Calabar - Cross River State, Nigeria. > Mobile +234 805 0232 469 Office + 234 802 751 0179 > *"LIFE is all about love and thanksgiving" * > Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote: > > Dear All, > > Please join me in warmly congratulating Charles Mok who has just won a > seat of the Information Technology Functional Constituency for the Hong > Kong Legislative Council with 2, 828 votes, against Samson Tam his only > opponent (2063) votes. > > I am super glad that Hong Kong has a dynamic, intelligent, hard working > advocate as one of its Legislative Councillor. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Mok > > With every best wish Charles! > > Sala > > On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 3:42 PM, Charles Mok (gmail) > wrote: > Similar happened in HK yesterday and about 10 social activists including > one opposition legislator had their fb accounts suspended for a few hours. > I contacted fb public policy people and around the same time their > accounts gradually came back unblocked. fb has not provided clear > explanation of the reasons. > > English report: (paid content) > > http://www.scmp.com/portal/site/SCMP/menuitem.2c913216495213d5df646910cba0a0a0/?vgnextoid=445f1383709a7310VgnVCM100000360a0a0aRCRD&vgnextfmt=teaser&ss=Hong+Kong&s=News > > Widely reported in Chinese newspapers also. > > Charles > > > On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 9:00 AM, michael gurstein wrote: > Oksana, > > Why/on whose orders/recommendation were they blocked? > > M > > -----Original Message----- > From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org > [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Oksana > Prykhodko > Sent: Friday, June 01, 2012 6:24 PM > To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; William Drake > Subject: Re: [governance] Facebook profiles blocked and content removed in > Brazil > > > Hi, all > > Today Facebook blocked accounts of nearly 10 Ukrainian independent > journalists. But, after active campaign in social media and addresses to > Facebook CEO, these accounts were unblocked. > > May be it is time to think about ombudsmen for social media - as a mediator > between users and CEO? > > Best regards, > Oksana > > 2012/6/1 William Drake : > > Hi Marilia > > > > > > On May 31, 2012, at 11:28 PM, Marilia Maciel wrote: > > > > I am totally in favor of achieving "harmony" on this and other topics. > > But this is a crossborder issue that involves private forces and > > public interest. Tell me the place where we can globally tackle this > > issue, all together, in a multistakeholder fashion and I will be the > > first to attend and try to contribute so that “harmony” can come > > about. But first we probably need to fight for such a space to exist. > > > > > > I guess I'm with Roland and others who'd note that the Internet is not > > the web and the web is not FB, so while FB's TOR are overly paranoid > > and restrictive, there are other places to post stuff, and it's at > > least debatable whether this rises to the level of being global > > Internet governance. But I have different questions. In > > conversations in Geneva and here (and the IT4C letter did the same), > > you've cited FB policies as evidence there's an urgent need for > > enhanced cooperation in the form of a platform under the UN. But why > > not organize an online campaign---per ACTA SOPA PIPA—of fellow FB > > users to put pressure on FB directly (and for that matter, use the IGF > > in parallel to stoke the debate), rather than creating a centralized > > uber mechanism responsible for this and all else? > > Why do you think a WG/CIRP/whatever that would be populated inter alia > by > > Geneva reps of the very governments that make FB paranoid in the first > place > > would be more likely to agree that nudity is ok and FB should allow it > > without fear of government reprisals? > > > > There are many CS and other actors who share your concerns about > > individual issues---FoE IPR privacy surveillance etc---and the meta > > issue of concentrated power but just have trouble seeing a one-stop > > shop in the UN as the right solution. Since the case for why it would > > be really hasn't been made in any detail, isn't there a risk that > > insisting it's the only option left-minded people may consider (and in > > some tellings, that any nonbelievers are morally suspect, don't care > > about developing countries, etc) just limits coalition building? Can > > we agree that at the Baku pre-event and beyond, it'd be useful to work > > through the relative merits of different institutional designs? > > Personally, I've always favored WGs in the IGF & > > strengthening/connecting advocacy coalitions working in different > > spaces (although as the APC network of networks effort showed, that's > > difficult), but there are other options, a new UN body being just one. > > So let's compare and contrast? > > > > Best, > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > The information contained in this communication is confidential and may be > legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or > entity to whom it is addressed and others authorized to receive it. If you > are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any disclosure, > copying, distribution or taking action in reliance of the contents of this > information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. Kindly destroy this > message and notify the sender by replying the email in such instances. We > do not accept responsibility for any changes made to this message after it > was originally sent and any views, opinions, conclusions or other > information in this message which do not relate to the business of this > firm or are not authorized by us.The Cross River State Government is not > liable neither for the proper and complete transmission of the information > contained in this communication nor any delay in its receipt. > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From shailam at yahoo.com Mon Sep 10 05:38:02 2012 From: shailam at yahoo.com (shaila mistry) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 02:38:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [governance] Congratulations Charles Mok from the IGC! #Hong Kong Elections Message-ID: <1347269882.53247.YahooMailMobile@web160504.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Congratulations Charles. Well deserved I'm sure ! Shaila Rao Mistry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From gpaque at gmail.com Mon Sep 10 06:05:31 2012 From: gpaque at gmail.com (Ginger Paque) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 05:05:31 -0500 Subject: [governance] Congratulations Charles Mok from the IGC! #Hong Kong Elections In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Congratulations to Charles, and to HK! This is wonderful news. Good luck and energy, Charles! Warm regards, with wonderful memories of HK... Ginger Ginger (Virginia) Paque VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu Diplo Foundation Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme www.diplomacy.edu/ig ** ** On 10 September 2012 00:51, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear All, > > Please join me in warmly congratulating Charles Mok who has just won a > seat of the Information Technology Functional Constituency for the Hong > Kong Legislative Council with 2, 828 votes, against Samson Tam his only > opponent (2063) votes. > > I am super glad that Hong Kong has a dynamic, intelligent, hard working > advocate as one of its Legislative Councillor. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Mok > > With every best wish Charles! > > Sala > > On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 3:42 PM, Charles Mok (gmail) > wrote: > >> Similar happened in HK yesterday and about 10 social activists including >> one opposition legislator had their fb accounts suspended for a few hours. >> I contacted fb public policy people and around the same time their >> accounts gradually came back unblocked. fb has not provided clear >> explanation of the reasons. >> >> English report: (paid content) >> >> http://www.scmp.com/portal/site/SCMP/menuitem.2c913216495213d5df646910cba0a0a0/?vgnextoid=445f1383709a7310VgnVCM100000360a0a0aRCRD&vgnextfmt=teaser&ss=Hong+Kong&s=News >> >> Widely reported in Chinese newspapers also. >> >> Charles >> >> >> On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 9:00 AM, michael gurstein wrote: >> >>> Oksana, >>> >>> Why/on whose orders/recommendation were they blocked? >>> >>> M >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org >>> [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Oksana >>> Prykhodko >>> Sent: Friday, June 01, 2012 6:24 PM >>> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; William Drake >>> Subject: Re: [governance] Facebook profiles blocked and content removed >>> in >>> Brazil >>> >>> >>> Hi, all >>> >>> Today Facebook blocked accounts of nearly 10 Ukrainian independent >>> journalists. But, after active campaign in social media and addresses to >>> Facebook CEO, these accounts were unblocked. >>> >>> May be it is time to think about ombudsmen for social media - as a >>> mediator >>> between users and CEO? >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Oksana >>> >>> 2012/6/1 William Drake : >>> > Hi Marilia >>> > >>> > >>> > On May 31, 2012, at 11:28 PM, Marilia Maciel wrote: >>> > >>> > I am totally in favor of achieving "harmony" on this and other topics. >>> > But this is a crossborder issue that involves private forces and >>> > public interest. Tell me the place where we can globally tackle this >>> > issue, all together, in a multistakeholder fashion and I will be the >>> > first to attend and try to contribute so that “harmony” can come >>> > about. But first we probably need to fight for such a space to exist. >>> > >>> > >>> > I guess I'm with Roland and others who'd note that the Internet is not >>> > the web and the web is not FB, so while FB's TOR are overly paranoid >>> > and restrictive, there are other places to post stuff, and it's at >>> > least debatable whether this rises to the level of being global >>> > Internet governance. But I have different questions. In >>> > conversations in Geneva and here (and the IT4C letter did the same), >>> > you've cited FB policies as evidence there's an urgent need for >>> > enhanced cooperation in the form of a platform under the UN. But why >>> > not organize an online campaign---per ACTA SOPA PIPA—of fellow FB >>> > users to put pressure on FB directly (and for that matter, use the IGF >>> > in parallel to stoke the debate), rather than creating a centralized >>> > uber mechanism responsible for this and all else? >>> > Why do you think a WG/CIRP/whatever that would be populated inter >>> alia by >>> > Geneva reps of the very governments that make FB paranoid in the first >>> place >>> > would be more likely to agree that nudity is ok and FB should allow it >>> > without fear of government reprisals? >>> > >>> > There are many CS and other actors who share your concerns about >>> > individual issues---FoE IPR privacy surveillance etc---and the meta >>> > issue of concentrated power but just have trouble seeing a one-stop >>> > shop in the UN as the right solution. Since the case for why it would >>> > be really hasn't been made in any detail, isn't there a risk that >>> > insisting it's the only option left-minded people may consider (and in >>> > some tellings, that any nonbelievers are morally suspect, don't care >>> > about developing countries, etc) just limits coalition building? Can >>> > we agree that at the Baku pre-event and beyond, it'd be useful to work >>> > through the relative merits of different institutional designs? >>> > Personally, I've always favored WGs in the IGF & >>> > strengthening/connecting advocacy coalitions working in different >>> > spaces (although as the APC network of networks effort showed, that's >>> > difficult), but there are other options, a new UN body being just one. >>> >>> > So let's compare and contrast? >>> > >>> > Best, >>> > >>> > Bill >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > ____________________________________________________________ >>> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>> > governance at lists.igcaucus.org >>> > To be removed from the list, visit: >>> > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >>> > >>> > For all other list information and functions, see: >>> > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >>> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>> > http://www.igcaucus.org/ >>> > >>> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >>> To be removed from the list, visit: >>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >>> >>> For all other list information and functions, see: >>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >>> >>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >>> >>> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Mon Sep 10 08:45:08 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 15:45:08 +0300 Subject: [governance] When will ACTA II be fought out ? In-Reply-To: References: <50499472.7050508@gmail.com> <504DA202.2020303@gmail.com> Message-ID: <504DE0D4.2090703@gmail.com> [No transparency, no access, and for the pursuit of life liberty and copyright protection... so much for exceptionalism...] http://amnesty.org/en/for-media/press-releases/tpp-must-not-trade-away-free-speech-and-health-2012-09-06 6 September 2012 TPP Must Not Trade Away Free Speech and Health Negotiators from nine countries gathering outside Washington DC to draft a new Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) trade agreement must ensure that any new rules on copyright and patents adhere to core principles of transparency and uphold human rights, Amnesty International said today. "No one has the right to trade away our hard-fought legal protections for free speech and the right to health, and much less to do it behind closed doors," said Suzanne Nossel, executive director for Amnesty International USA. "It is time for TPP negotiators to show the public their cards and, more importantly, the draft text of the agreement." This text has been kept a secret since negotiations began in 2007, but leaked information suggests that it would attempt to achieve some of the same objectives of the widely criticized Anti-Counterfeiting Agreement (ACTA). Specifically, leaked TPP draft text neglects protections for fair use and standard judicial guarantees - such as the presumption of innocence - and includes copyright provisions that could compromise free speech on the internet and access to educational materials. Moreover, draft TPP provisions related to patents for pharmaceuticals risk stifling the development and production of generic medicines, by strengthening and deepening monopoly protections. "Access to life-saving medicines is a right, not a privilege, and the TPP must put people ahead of profits," Nossel said. In 2007, negotiations on the Trans-Pacific Partnership started between Chile, New Zealand, and Singapore. The United States joined the negotiations in 2008, with Canada and Mexico expected to join negotiations soon. The TPP countries account for 27 per cent of global Gross Domestic Product. The talks that start today in Leesburg, Virginia, hosted by the United States Trade Representative, are the 14th round of negotiations. AI Index: PRE01/424/2012 On 2012/09/10 11:41 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote: > Currently the TPP negotiations, the 14th round is being held in > Leesburg, Virginia from September 6-15, 2012 . > > Today is the day allocated for those who have registered to take part > in the Stakeholders discussions. You had to register to participate. > You can visit: http://www.ustr.gov/tpp to access highlights and > overviews and actual FTAs. It has been reported from other news > sources that His Excellency B. Obama wants to conclude the TPP by this > year's end. > > There is an interesting article by Gordon Campbell, see: > http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1209/S00040/gordon-campbell-on-apec-and-its-significance-for-tpp-talks.htm > > > On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 8:17 PM, Riaz K Tayob > wrote: > > Thanks for this... informative and very useful links... > > I was hoping that middle class America would realise that ONE of > the principle means that "good jobs" are lost is through the > internationalisation of intellectual property rights... but Ihave > no idea what passes for progressives or how issues come to light > in these societies so your take is not only useful, but also puts > forward some grounds for common interests... > > It is a pity that more was not done to raise the issue of > conflation of domain names and trade marks... > > Just as a side issue, the close affiliation of govt and telecoms > companies also had a material/technological basis - with fibre > optics, govt needed to be at the telecom HQs (but I may be > wrong)... and with the Bush retrospective legalisation - well that > is about the worst thing in legal terms... retrospectivity... > > On 2012/09/10 11:01 AM, Louis Pouzin (well) wrote: >> Hi Riaz, >> >> Why I think this is the case ? >> >> It takes a bit of revisiting some history to set the scene. Who >> remembers, or has forgotten, the ATT-NSA spying net story between >> 2002 and 2005 ? >> >> You can glance through: >> >> https://www.eff.org/files/filenode/att/presskit/ATT_onepager.pdf >> http://cryptogon.com/?p=877 >> >> In a nutshell, an ATT technician discovers in 2002 that the whole >> ATT backbone traffic (phone, voice, data, web) is mirrored >> illegally to NSA. Once retired in 2005 he talks to newspapers, >> and after much effort gets an article in the NYT. EFF files a >> class action lawsuit against ATT. The Bush admin moves to kill >> the case, calling the State secret exception. Once Obama elected >> the new admin legalizes retroactively NSA's spying, and declares >> immune from prosecution all phone companies involved in tapping. >> >> Ergo, Bush or Obama, same tricks. Whatever is illegal becomes >> legal if the president says so. A first step into dictatorship ? >> >> The US is no exception. Many governments have deployed illegal >> and secret mass surveillance systems. Their motivation is >> primarily controlling political opponents. Their natural allies >> (and financial donators) are marketing organisations eager to >> know everything on everybody, i.e. controlling consumers. >> >> If admins need justifications with their parliament (to get a >> budget) they conjure up terrorism, pedophilia, child protection, >> obscenity, social disorder, religion, IPR, what have you. It's >> the sort of decor adequate for painting spying as a public >> protection acceptable by the population or the political >> opposition, if any. >> >> During the GW Bush admin the first three were the excuse. Now >> those slogans have lost emotional drive. IPR is the new excuse, >> supported by the republican opposition and their media lobbies, >> working on more drastic laws to protect their revenues. Since the >> market is international the US has to coax other countries to get >> on the bandwagon and adopt similar legal provisions, .. thus >> similar control systems (a bonanza for the US surveillance >> industry), and an easy way for NSA to collect other countries data. >> >> Apparently this is part of what's going on under the TPP >> umbrella. It should be easier for the US to maneuver this limited >> coalition than the rest of the world. >> >> Last July general Keith Alexander, NSA's head, became Cyber >> Command's Commander. You can google his recent declarations and >> interviews. He is dead set on security (read spying). It seems >> DHS was not good enough, as Cyber Command (read NSA) is now to >> coordinate all US departments for securing ALL networks (read >> domestic and abroad). Ok, he may have a dream. >> >> All that leaves little else to be interpreted other than a >> determination to build a worldwide mass surveillance system >> centered in USA. IPR and other opportunistic lures serve as >> negotiation jokers for aggregating lobbies and other governments >> in the gang. >> >> It will be quite interesting to observe what approach will be >> taken with China, India, Russia, and EU. ACTA 2012 won't be >> forgotten any time soon. New convincing arguments for IPR will >> sound deja vu. The prospect of US controlled mass surveillance >> will look as attractive as a scarecrow. Then, what else US can >> offer ? Probably rude arm twisting, a not unusual tactic in real >> politics. >> >> I just read that EFF is up against TPP. Resistance goes on. >> >> Cheers, Louis >> - - - >> >> More on the subject >> http://www.eff.org/legal/cases/att/SER_klein_decl.pdf >> http://www.eff.org/legal/cases/att/SER_marcus_decl.pdf >> / The two previous documents were on the web for several years, >> and have vanished recently >> /https://www.eff.org/issues/nsa-spying >> https://www.eff.org/nsa/faq >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ >> NSA_warrantless_surveillance_controversy >> >> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/timothy-karr/one-us-corporations-role-_b_815281.html >> http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/01/obama-sides-wit/ >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Klein >> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/07/AR2007110700006_pf.html >> http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/05/70944 >> http://www.wired.com/politics/onlinerights/news/2007/05/kleininterview >> http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/01/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-mark-klein-author-of-wiring-up-the-big-brother-machine/ >> http://www.mainheadlinenews.com/video/qrBapXsLcro >> http://www.technewsworld.com/story/60204.html >> http://osdir.com/ml/culture.war.guerrelec/2006-04/msg00040.html >> http://www.dailytech.com/ATT+Accidentally+Leaks+Incriminating+NSA+Info/article2558.htm >> http://www.spamdailynews.com/publish/Bush_administration_to_intervene_in_ATT_surveillance_case.asp >> http://www.infowars.com/att-whistleblower-spy-bill-creates-%E2%80%98infrastructure-for-a-police-state%E2%80%99/ >> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=74c_1243652643&c=1 >> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/04/obama-doj-worse-than-bush >> http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/nsa-denies-wired/ >> >> - - - >> On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 8:30 AM, Riaz K Tayob >> > wrote: >> >> Why do you think this is the case? >> >> On 2012/09/07 03:34 AM, Louis Pouzin (well) wrote: >> >> But whatever happens in November, the next USG is >> unlikely to change policy on IPR. Watch out. >> >> >> > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From mueller at syr.edu Mon Sep 10 09:57:45 2012 From: mueller at syr.edu (Milton L Mueller) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 13:57:45 +0000 Subject: [governance] Congratulations Charles Mok from the IGC! #Hong Kong Elections In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD2210EAE@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> Fantastic, Congratulations, Charles! I also note that Hong Kong people seem to have successfully resisted P.R. China's plans to "re-educate" their population. There are also news reports here that HK democrats will win 60% of the 'super' seats (which of course would be a minority overall, given HK's manipulated-multistakeholder governance model) It was also reported that Tunisia officially abandoned internet censorship last weekend At least democracy and rights are progressing in some places... From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 1:51 AM To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Charles Mok (gmail) Subject: [governance] Congratulations Charles Mok from the IGC! #Hong Kong Elections Dear All, Please join me in warmly congratulating Charles Mok who has just won a seat of the Information Technology Functional Constituency for the Hong Kong Legislative Council with 2, 828 votes, against Samson Tam his only opponent (2063) votes. I am super glad that Hong Kong has a dynamic, intelligent, hard working advocate as one of its Legislative Councillor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Mok With every best wish Charles! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From kabani.asif at gmail.com Mon Sep 10 11:38:23 2012 From: kabani.asif at gmail.com (Kabani) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 20:38:23 +0500 Subject: [governance] Congratulations Charles Mok from the IGC! #Hong Kong Elections In-Reply-To: <1347268562397084500@crossriverstate.gov.ng> References: <1347268562397084500@crossriverstate.gov.ng> Message-ID: Congratulation, - Charles Mok From Asif Kabani On 10 September 2012 14:16, Sonigitu Ekpe < sonigituekpe at crossriverstate.gov.ng> wrote: > Dear All, > > The cap fits Charles Mok, hence the overwhelming victory. > Congrats Charles. > > -- > Sonigitu Ekpe > *Project Support Officer[Agriculturist]* > Cross River Farm Credit Scheme > Ministry of Agriculture and Natural Resources > 3 Barracks Road P.M.B. 1119 > Calabar - Cross River State, Nigeria. > Mobile +234 805 0232 469 Office + 234 802 751 0179 > *"LIFE is all about love and thanksgiving" * > Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote: > > Dear All, > > Please join me in warmly congratulating Charles Mok who has just won a > seat of the Information Technology Functional Constituency for the Hong > Kong Legislative Council with 2, 828 votes, against Samson Tam his only > opponent (2063) votes. > > I am super glad that Hong Kong has a dynamic, intelligent, hard working > advocate as one of its Legislative Councillor. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Mok > > With every best wish Charles! > > Sala > > On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 3:42 PM, Charles Mok (gmail) > wrote: > Similar happened in HK yesterday and about 10 social activists including > one opposition legislator had their fb accounts suspended for a few hours. > I contacted fb public policy people and around the same time their > accounts gradually came back unblocked. fb has not provided clear > explanation of the reasons. > > English report: (paid content) > > http://www.scmp.com/portal/site/SCMP/menuitem.2c913216495213d5df646910cba0a0a0/?vgnextoid=445f1383709a7310VgnVCM100000360a0a0aRCRD&vgnextfmt=teaser&ss=Hong+Kong&s=News > > Widely reported in Chinese newspapers also. > > Charles > > > On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 9:00 AM, michael gurstein wrote: > Oksana, > > Why/on whose orders/recommendation were they blocked? > > M > > -----Original Message----- > From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org > [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Oksana > Prykhodko > Sent: Friday, June 01, 2012 6:24 PM > To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; William Drake > Subject: Re: [governance] Facebook profiles blocked and content removed in > Brazil > > > Hi, all > > Today Facebook blocked accounts of nearly 10 Ukrainian independent > journalists. But, after active campaign in social media and addresses to > Facebook CEO, these accounts were unblocked. > > May be it is time to think about ombudsmen for social media - as a mediator > between users and CEO? > > Best regards, > Oksana > > 2012/6/1 William Drake : > > Hi Marilia > > > > > > On May 31, 2012, at 11:28 PM, Marilia Maciel wrote: > > > > I am totally in favor of achieving "harmony" on this and other topics. > > But this is a crossborder issue that involves private forces and > > public interest. Tell me the place where we can globally tackle this > > issue, all together, in a multistakeholder fashion and I will be the > > first to attend and try to contribute so that “harmony” can come > > about. But first we probably need to fight for such a space to exist. > > > > > > I guess I'm with Roland and others who'd note that the Internet is not > > the web and the web is not FB, so while FB's TOR are overly paranoid > > and restrictive, there are other places to post stuff, and it's at > > least debatable whether this rises to the level of being global > > Internet governance. But I have different questions. In > > conversations in Geneva and here (and the IT4C letter did the same), > > you've cited FB policies as evidence there's an urgent need for > > enhanced cooperation in the form of a platform under the UN. But why > > not organize an online campaign---per ACTA SOPA PIPA—of fellow FB > > users to put pressure on FB directly (and for that matter, use the IGF > > in parallel to stoke the debate), rather than creating a centralized > > uber mechanism responsible for this and all else? > > Why do you think a WG/CIRP/whatever that would be populated inter alia > by > > Geneva reps of the very governments that make FB paranoid in the first > place > > would be more likely to agree that nudity is ok and FB should allow it > > without fear of government reprisals? > > > > There are many CS and other actors who share your concerns about > > individual issues---FoE IPR privacy surveillance etc---and the meta > > issue of concentrated power but just have trouble seeing a one-stop > > shop in the UN as the right solution. Since the case for why it would > > be really hasn't been made in any detail, isn't there a risk that > > insisting it's the only option left-minded people may consider (and in > > some tellings, that any nonbelievers are morally suspect, don't care > > about developing countries, etc) just limits coalition building? Can > > we agree that at the Baku pre-event and beyond, it'd be useful to work > > through the relative merits of different institutional designs? > > Personally, I've always favored WGs in the IGF & > > strengthening/connecting advocacy coalitions working in different > > spaces (although as the APC network of networks effort showed, that's > > difficult), but there are other options, a new UN body being just one. > > So let's compare and contrast? > > > > Best, > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > The information contained in this communication is confidential and may be > legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or > entity to whom it is addressed and others authorized to receive it. If you > are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any disclosure, > copying, distribution or taking action in reliance of the contents of this > information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. Kindly destroy this > message and notify the sender by replying the email in such instances. We > do not accept responsibility for any changes made to this message after it > was originally sent and any views, opinions, conclusions or other > information in this message which do not relate to the business of this > firm or are not authorized by us.The Cross River State Government is not > liable neither for the proper and complete transmission of the information > contained in this communication nor any delay in its receipt. > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- *Follow me @* * **Before you print think about the** **ENVIRONMENT* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From nb at bollow.ch Mon Sep 10 14:42:01 2012 From: nb at bollow.ch (Norbert Bollow) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 20:42:01 +0200 Subject: [governance] deliberative democracy (was Re: Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN...) In-Reply-To: <504C3775.10709@itforchange.net> References: <50332E85.8060106@itforchange.net> <50333A5C.7060908@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD21F9B4D@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <5038BD70.7080909@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD22082FD@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <503F0CA3.3020801@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220B5DE@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <504853B4.6080300@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220ED52@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <504C3775.10709@itforchange.net> Message-ID: <20120910204201.0c1acd9a@quill.bollow.ch> Parminder wrote: As for 'control by the states' I am happy to > have any kind of direct democracy not only in IG space but also all > other spaces of global governance (your view on this please). And > till we have it, instead of one country dictating to the world, > representational democracy will do (while all efforts at national and > international level should be kept up to see that these purported > 'representatives' are indeed democratically so). Imperfect democracy > and representativity cannot be taken as an excuse for perpetuating > hegemony and one-country dictatorship. This is very true. At the same time, while seeking to improve the functional systems of democracy, we can also work on providing these (imperfect but better than all currently available alternatives) decision making systems with better information on what policy options are available and what the likely outcomes are. As a matter of fact I have been thinking quite a bit about what can be done (as per the theme of this year's IGF) in Internet governance to make an effective and significant contribution towards sustainable human, social and economic development which goes beyond what happens anyway (quite independently of the IGF) if IETF, IANA, the RIRs & co continue to do what they have been doing, and governments and ITU etc. don't get in the way. I mean, what is the value that the IGF process can potentially add towards this particular, rather ambitious but quite important and absolutely needed, objective? I have come to the conclusion that this added value will, if it is to be successfully brought into existence at all, have to be in the area of catalysing the development of a culture of deliberative democracy regarding Internet governance topics, together with the development of suitable online tools. I mean this not as a replacement for existing decision making systems of representative democracy, but to complement them, with the goal of those decision making processes becoming better informed. If this succeeds, it can inspire broader application of similar approaches in other topic areas, including those that are more directly critically relevant to achieving the goal of sustainable human, social and economic development. (I'm of course talking about my ECTF proposal again, using different words in trying again to communicate what I've tried to communicate before, but which I maybe have not succeeded in communicating effectively enough.) Greetings, Norbert -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From mariliamaciel at gmail.com Mon Sep 10 14:58:01 2012 From: mariliamaciel at gmail.com (Marilia Maciel) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 15:58:01 -0300 Subject: [governance] CGI.br holds its 1st itinerant open meeting Message-ID: Hello all, I would like to share the information that CGI.br has started today an initiative of holding open meetings in several Brazilian cities, to help with the democratization and outreach of internet governance issues. The Civil Rights Framework, network neutrality, principles for Internet Governance, infrastructure and security issues are on the agenda of this first two-day meeting that is being held in the city of Manaus, capital of the state of Amazonas. The idea is to communicate the activities that are being developed by CGI.br and to listen to the views and needs of local people, to incorporate this in CGI's policies. Most of the members of CGI's multistakeholder steering committee are there, which is great. The link to the live webcast is: http://cgi.br/reuniao-manaus/ (in Portuguese only). Another recent development was the creation of multistakeholder consultative chambers on issues such as access, digital content, security, innovation, education, to help to introduce different perspectives to CGI's steering committee discussions. The first meeting of these chambers took place last month and an annual plan of action is being finalized. I would be happy to share further information about that. Best wishes! Marília -- Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade FGV Direito Rio Center for Technology and Society Getulio Vargas Foundation Rio de Janeiro - Brazil -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Mon Sep 10 15:52:17 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 07:52:17 +1200 Subject: [governance] CGI.br holds its 1st itinerant open meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is really awesome Marilia especially that they are open meetings in several Braziliian cities. Congratulations CGI.br It is important that discussions are encouraged at grassroots level. I will send the link to the people in Timor Leste also who speak Portugese as I am sure they will be interested. Best wishes and please keep us updated. On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 6:58 AM, Marilia Maciel wrote: > Hello all, > > I would like to share the information that CGI.br has started today an > initiative of holding open meetings in several Brazilian cities, to help > with the democratization and outreach of internet governance issues. The > Civil Rights Framework, network neutrality, principles for Internet > Governance, infrastructure and security issues are on the agenda of this > first two-day meeting that is being held in the city of Manaus, capital of > the state of Amazonas. > > The idea is to communicate the activities that are being developed by > CGI.br and to listen to the views and needs of local people, to incorporate > this in CGI's policies. Most of the members of CGI's multistakeholder > steering committee are there, which is great. > > The link to the live webcast is: http://cgi.br/reuniao-manaus/ (in > Portuguese only). > > Another recent development was the creation of multistakeholder > consultative chambers on issues such as access, digital content, security, > innovation, education, to help to introduce different perspectives to CGI's > steering committee discussions. The first meeting of these chambers took > place last month and an annual plan of action is being finalized. I would > be happy to share further information about that. > > Best wishes! > Marília > > > -- > Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade > FGV Direito Rio > > Center for Technology and Society > Getulio Vargas Foundation > Rio de Janeiro - Brazil > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From nb at bollow.ch Mon Sep 10 15:55:00 2012 From: nb at bollow.ch (Norbert Bollow) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:55:00 +0200 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: <504D964B.3050309@gmail.com> References: <50332E85.8060106@itforchange.net> <50333A5C.7060908@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD21F9B4D@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <5038BD70.7080909@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD22082FD@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <503F0CA3.3020801@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220B5DE@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <504853B4.6080300@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220ED52@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <504C3775.10709@itforchange.net> <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B135E25@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> <504D964B.3050309@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20120910215500.38dd57c1@quill.bollow.ch> Riaz K Tayob wrote: > ICANN enjoys the discretion of complying or not. At national levels > court's may refuse to even hear a case over which it will render an > "empty judgement" - hence issues of jurisdiction and effective > enforcement would play up here to even ensure legal standing. So the > sufficiency of the argument on national (other than US) control is > much more complicated than at first sight. Another aspect which complicates the matter, even if we assume that a non-US national court would agree to assert jurisdiction, is the following: Given that the kind of Internet governance questions that could become court cases almost certainly weren't explicitly considered when the relevant national laws were written, chances are that the written laws will not be strictly deterministic of what the outcome of the court case should be. National courts outside the US might, even in countries with strong independence of the courts from the preferences of other branches of government, choose to exercise their discretion by following the example of how US courts have ruled on that kind of matter. It certainly seems to me that there is an international tendency of more and more adopting the US ways of thinking about various legal matters even when other ways of thinking about those topics locally have a longer tradition and are at least equally justifiable. In countries where the court system is less independent, a similar outcome might result after the executive branch of government receives a more or less veiled threat of retaliation from the US embassy. My conclusion is that the legal foundation of ICANN really should be fixed so that such questions of jurisdiction have answers which are reasonably clear and internationally acceptable (which US hegemony in any form or shape clearly isn't.) Greetings, Norbert -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From charityg at diplomacy.edu Tue Sep 11 01:04:21 2012 From: charityg at diplomacy.edu (Charity Gamboa) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 00:04:21 -0500 Subject: [governance] United Airlines 'Network Outage' Snarls Air Travel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You know - network outage may happen anywhere. We rely so much on technology we sometimes feel "handicapped" without it. I taught using smartboards and have made accommodations on computer use for people who are handicapped or with learning disabilities. When our network crashed, I had no choice but to teach the old-fashioned way of paper, highlighter and pen. We can't cancel classes just because the Internet is down or the local network is out. This goes to airlines who are as vulnerable as any company who rely on the network to do its work. I don't see how tweeting every minute until the plane leaves will accomplish anything other than you have no choice but for you to wait until the plane leaves. A couple of months ago my city had a power outage which messed up all the traffic lights. Networks went down for 6 hours. I was stuck in traffic and the intersection becomes a 4-way stop until uniformed and even off-duty cops directed traffic. Has anyone ever seen how traffic enforcers in the Philippines would dance while directing traffic in order to entertain motorists? I just think that people complain too much. My students complain too much. Would you expect a college student to run back for a textbook to their dorm? Nope - but they will if they forgot their phone. We only just seem to think we are powerless when in fact human ingenuity is still alive. Regards, Charity On Sat, Sep 8, 2012 at 1:15 AM, Fahd A. Batayneh wrote: > > http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57502077-92/united-airlines-network-outage-snarls-air-travel/ > > This is the ugly side of relying heavily on technology. > > Fahd > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From shailam at yahoo.com Tue Sep 11 04:15:47 2012 From: shailam at yahoo.com (shaila mistry) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 01:15:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [governance] United Airlines 'Network Outage' Snarls Air Travel Message-ID: <1347351347.27029.YahooMailMobile@web160501.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Well said. We have too much dependence on technology and have suspended common sense !! What is even more scary is that we have raised a generation that is rendered helpless without computers and cell phones ! Shaila Rao Mistry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Tue Sep 11 04:47:13 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 14:17:13 +0530 Subject: [governance] United Airlines 'Network Outage' Snarls Air Travel In-Reply-To: <1347351347.27029.YahooMailMobile@web160501.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1347351347.27029.YahooMailMobile@web160501.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: * > > "...we have raised a generation that is rendered helpless without > computers and cell phones..." * Agreed. I'm going to make it a point to have my kids learn to survive without these "modern" conveniences... -C On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 1:45 PM, shaila mistry wrote: > Well said. We have too much dependence on technology and have suspended > common sense !! What is even more scary is that we have raised a generation > that is rendered helpless without computers and cell phones ! > Shaila Rao Mistry > > ------------------------------ > * From: * Charity Gamboa ; > * To: * ; Fahd A. Batayneh < > fahd.batayneh at gmail.com>; > * Subject: * Re: [governance] United Airlines 'Network Outage' Snarls Air > Travel > * Sent: * Tue, Sep 11, 2012 5:04:21 AM > > You know - network outage may happen anywhere. We rely so much on > technology we sometimes feel "handicapped" without it. I taught using > smartboards and have made accommodations on computer use for people who are > handicapped or with learning disabilities. When our network crashed, I had > no choice but to teach the old-fashioned way of paper, highlighter and pen. > We can't cancel classes just because the Internet is down or the local > network is out. This goes to airlines who are as vulnerable as any company > who rely on the network to do its work. I don't see how tweeting every > minute until the plane leaves will accomplish anything other than > you have no choice but for you to wait until the plane leaves. A couple of > months ago my city had a power outage which messed up all the traffic > lights. Networks went down for 6 hours. I was stuck in traffic and the > intersection becomes a 4-way stop until uniformed and even off-duty cops > directed traffic. Has anyone ever seen how traffic enforcers in the > Philippines would dance while directing traffic in order to entertain > motorists? I just think that people complain too much. My students > complain too much. Would you expect a college student to run back for a > textbook to their dorm? Nope - but they will if they forgot their phone. > We only just seem to think we are powerless when in fact human ingenuity > is still alive. > > Regards, > Charity > > On Sat, Sep 8, 2012 at 1:15 AM, Fahd A. Batayneh wrote: > >> >> http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57502077-92/united-airlines-network-outage-snarls-air-travel/ >> >> This is the ugly side of relying heavily on technology. >> >> Fahd >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Tue Sep 11 04:53:08 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 11:53:08 +0300 Subject: [governance] United Airlines 'Network Outage' Snarls Air Travel In-Reply-To: References: <1347351347.27029.YahooMailMobile@web160501.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <504EFBF4.5040708@gmail.com> Not so clear cut I am afraid (not saying there should not be contingencies...) technology attenuates (strengthens, compensates, enhances, etc) humans... because well we are partly so ill adapted to our environment (hence a "technological fetish",however commodified or not)... and this brings convenience... so we use technology... and at some point as someone famous once said, technology uses us... it is a dialectical relationship... On 2012/09/11 11:47 AM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar wrote: > / > > "...we have raised a generation that is rendered helpless without > computers and cell phones..." > > / > Agreed. I'm going to make it a point to have my kids learn to survive > without these "modern" conveniences... > -C > > On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 1:45 PM, shaila mistry > wrote: > > Well said. We have too much dependence on technology and have > suspended common sense !! What is even more scary is that we have > raised a generation that is rendered helpless without computers > and cell phones ! > Shaila Rao Mistry > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From: * Charity Gamboa >; > *To: * >; Fahd A. Batayneh > >; > *Subject: * Re: [governance] United Airlines 'Network Outage' > Snarls Air Travel > *Sent: * Tue, Sep 11, 2012 5:04:21 AM > > You know - network outage may happen anywhere. We rely so much on > technology we sometimes feel "handicapped" without it. I taught > using smartboards and have made accommodations on computer use for > people who are handicapped or with learning disabilities. When our > network crashed, I had no choice but to teach the old-fashioned > way of paper, highlighter and pen. We can't cancel classes just > because the Internet is down or the local network is out. This > goes to airlines who are as vulnerable as any company who rely on > the network to do its work. I don't see how tweeting every minute > until the plane leaves will accomplish anything other than > you have no choice but for you to wait until the plane leaves. A > couple of months ago my city had a power outage which messed up > all the traffic lights. Networks went down for 6 hours. I was > stuck in traffic and the intersection becomes a 4-way stop until > uniformed and even off-duty cops directed traffic. Has anyone ever > seen how traffic enforcers in the Philippines would dance while > directing traffic in order to entertain motorists? I just think > that people complain too much. My students complain too much. > Would you expect a college student to run back for a textbook to > their dorm? Nope - but they will if they forgot their phone. We > only just seem to think we are powerless when in fact human > ingenuity is still alive. > > Regards, > Charity > > On Sat, Sep 8, 2012 at 1:15 AM, Fahd A. Batayneh > wrote: > > http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57502077-92/united-airlines-network-outage-snarls-air-travel/ > > This is the ugly side of relying heavily on technology. > > Fahd > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Tue Sep 11 05:01:17 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 14:31:17 +0530 Subject: [governance] United Airlines 'Network Outage' Snarls Air Travel In-Reply-To: <504EFBF4.5040708@gmail.com> References: <1347351347.27029.YahooMailMobile@web160501.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <504EFBF4.5040708@gmail.com> Message-ID: True. However it's not that there's no workaround in most on-the-ground circumstances - if the computer doesnt work we use a paper and pencil so the work gets done (it actually means a bit of a vacation for me since I'm the it manager)... "tech-fetish" is very true; even the most non-techie of non-techies wants a laptop and an iPad today.... I dont know they seem to think it's a status symbol or a trophy of some kind. And every so often we get the device back a few months later, completely unused with a dead battery. Still in the original casing. Dust free. -C On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 2:23 PM, Riaz K Tayob wrote: > Not so clear cut I am afraid (not saying there should not be > contingencies...) technology attenuates (strengthens, compensates, > enhances, etc) humans... because well we are partly so ill adapted to our > environment (hence a "technological fetish",however commodified or not)... > and this brings convenience... so we use technology... and at some point as > someone famous once said, technology uses us... > > it is a dialectical relationship... > > > > On 2012/09/11 11:47 AM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar wrote: > > * >> >> "...we have raised a generation that is rendered helpless without >> computers and cell phones..." > > * > > Agreed. I'm going to make it a point to have my kids learn to survive > without these "modern" conveniences... > > -C > > On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 1:45 PM, shaila mistry wrote: > >> Well said. We have too much dependence on technology and have >> suspended common sense !! What is even more scary is that we have raised a >> generation that is rendered helpless without computers and cell phones ! >> Shaila Rao Mistry >> >> ------------------------------ >> * From: * Charity Gamboa ; >> * To: * ; Fahd A. Batayneh < >> fahd.batayneh at gmail.com>; >> * Subject: * Re: [governance] United Airlines 'Network Outage' Snarls >> Air Travel >> * Sent: * Tue, Sep 11, 2012 5:04:21 AM >> >> You know - network outage may happen anywhere. We rely so much on >> technology we sometimes feel "handicapped" without it. I taught using >> smartboards and have made accommodations on computer use for people who are >> handicapped or with learning disabilities. When our network crashed, I had >> no choice but to teach the old-fashioned way of paper, highlighter and pen. >> We can't cancel classes just because the Internet is down or the local >> network is out. This goes to airlines who are as vulnerable as any company >> who rely on the network to do its work. I don't see how tweeting every >> minute until the plane leaves will accomplish anything other than >> you have no choice but for you to wait until the plane leaves. A couple of >> months ago my city had a power outage which messed up all the traffic >> lights. Networks went down for 6 hours. I was stuck in traffic and the >> intersection becomes a 4-way stop until uniformed and even off-duty cops >> directed traffic. Has anyone ever seen how traffic enforcers in the >> Philippines would dance while directing traffic in order to entertain >> motorists? I just think that people complain too much. My students >> complain too much. Would you expect a college student to run back for a >> textbook to their dorm? Nope - but they will if they forgot their phone. >> We only just seem to think we are powerless when in fact human ingenuity >> is still alive. >> >> Regards, >> Charity >> >> On Sat, Sep 8, 2012 at 1:15 AM, Fahd A. Batayneh > > wrote: >> >>> >>> http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57502077-92/united-airlines-network-outage-snarls-air-travel/ >>> >>> This is the ugly side of relying heavily on technology. >>> >>> Fahd >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >>> To be removed from the list, visit: >>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >>> >>> For all other list information and functions, see: >>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >>> >>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >>> >>> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From nb at bollow.ch Tue Sep 11 05:09:33 2012 From: nb at bollow.ch (Norbert Bollow) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 11:09:33 +0200 Subject: [governance] United Airlines 'Network Outage' Snarls Air Travel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120911110933.70c0c56a@quill.bollow.ch> Charity Gamboa wrote: > You know - network outage may happen anywhere. It's possible to design a network for resilience, with enough redundancy to avoid any single points of failure. This is significantly more expensive (you don't only have to pay for more equipment, but also more expensive experts to design and implement it), but I think that an airline which doesn't have this kind of robust network really doesn't have any excuse. Greetings, Norbert -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From daniel at digsys.bg Tue Sep 11 05:45:30 2012 From: daniel at digsys.bg (Daniel Kalchev) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 12:45:30 +0300 Subject: [governance] United Airlines 'Network Outage' Snarls Air Travel In-Reply-To: <20120911110933.70c0c56a@quill.bollow.ch> References: <20120911110933.70c0c56a@quill.bollow.ch> Message-ID: <504F083A.2050401@digsys.bg> On 11.09.12 12:09, Norbert Bollow wrote: > Charity Gamboa wrote: > >> You know - network outage may happen anywhere. > It's possible to design a network for resilience, with enough > redundancy to avoid any single points of failure. This is significantly > more expensive (you don't only have to pay for more equipment, but > also more expensive experts to design and implement it), but I think > that an airline which doesn't have this kind of robust network really > doesn't have any excuse. Very much agree. The thing is, all these airlines claim, and are "obviously" certified to have such infrastructure in place. Not only the airlines, but everywhere around us there is too much public infrastructure, that implemented in so many naive ways, that it barely "somehow works". It is not only about being "more expensive". These airlines probably already paid more than enough to bunch of "certified experts" and all sorts of consultants. Since networking of this kind is relatively "new", the principle "anything goes" applies. And, those people who endorse such lousy network implementations are the same people who insist they should govern the Internet? Daniel -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From parminder at itforchange.net Tue Sep 11 05:49:31 2012 From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 15:19:31 +0530 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B135E25@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> References: <50332E85.8060106@itforchange.net> <50333A5C.7060908@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD21F9B4D@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <5038BD70.7080909@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD22082FD@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <503F0CA3.3020801@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220B5DE@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <504853B4.6080300@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220ED52@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>,<504C3775.10709@itforchange.net> <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B135E25@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: <504F092B.1090807@itforchange.net> Hi Lee, We live in a world that is made of territorially defined and bound jurisdictions. Plus, there is some international law/ jurisdiction, albeit rather weak. There are no doubts exceptions, whereby territorial jurisdictions are able to, in some way or the other, reach out to other parts of the world. (This mostly happens on the 'powerful gets his way' principle, which is not to be recommended.) Admittedly, there are more such instances in a more connected world today then ever before, but they still are 'exceptions'. The problem is that Milton and you are trying to propose a governance system out of these exceptions. No, it doesn't work that way. We cant work with exceptions, we have to work with the main system. And the main system is broken, for which please see below... On Monday 10 September 2012 02:11 AM, Lee W McKnight wrote: > Hey Parminder, > > If Milton's signing off, I'll sign on for one more attempt. > > My aim is not to encourage lawsuits against the hegemon's proxy ICANN > - but I feel them coming on anyway, with the .xxx one just the tip of > the hegemon's melting iceberg. (I'm enjoying this 70s flashback, > don't get to use the word hegemon twice in one sentence often these > days : ) You do agree that there are many lawsuits coming ICANN's way. Are we prepared for the outcomes of these lawsuits, which are as inevitable. How long will the US executive be able to put persuasive pressure on the US judiciary to not do anything that may rock the boat. I dont think the US judiciary is that subservient, and, sooner or later,it will decisively apply the law. In an email on 27th Aug, responding to my specific poser,David Conrad developed the scenario that may follow an adverse decision in the .xxx case. It culminated in the 'possibility' of .xxx having to be removed from the root. Are we prepared for this eventuality. Would the legitimacy of the system not collapse right away! (I must mention here that David thought it wont). There could be other impacts of an adverse decision in the .xxx case; ICANN may be directed by the court to review all its policies and actions vis a vis whatever the court thinks needs to be done to ensure consistent application of US's anti-trust (or any other) law. ICANN will immediately *have* to do so.... Are you/ we prepared for this very plausible scenario? Responsible governance systems and its stakeholders do not just sit around and wait for such a 'very probable' eventuality to happen. What is our response/ preparation to it? Does this not suggest that the present system of oversight of, and jurisdiction application over, ICANN is broken? Your and Milton's response to it seems to be: it does not matter if ICANN has to do all the above things on directions of a US court; we will simply tell all the outraged/ protesting people from other countries that ICANN will also respond *exactly" in the same manner if a court from their countries (India, Ghana, Nepa, Indonesia, Brazil etc) were to find faults with ICANN and propose remedial measures. /This will be a patently untrue statement/. I can assure you that no one will buy it. So, I advice you, please be ready for some other response. As for your and Milton's claim that if ICANN is subject to international law, the corresponding immunities that it will get from national jurisdiction could be a problem. Yes, it could be a problem for USians, since at present ICANN is subject to their national law. It is not a such problem to people of other countries. On the other hand, it should be obvious that any international law will be framed in a manner that takes as much account of ICANN functions as possible.Even if specific legal provisions do not exist in some aspects, the international system is capable of delivering on basis of principles of natural justice and other such forms of jurisprudence. Thanks, but we can do without US law getting imposed on the whole world, which, to me, is what your and Milton's critique of 'any' international system/ jurisdiction is all about. parminder > > So here's my free legal counsel for you: anyone anywhere can play. > > Just as there was nothing to prevent Google or Yahoo, or earlier > Compuserve being taken to court in France or Brazil, or Germany and > Italy, and senior executives threatened, tried, sentenced and/or > subject to arrest if they set foot in those countries - meaning even > if they had no staff there, but just passed through say the Frankfurt > airport, or stopped in Rome for a vacation - so too could ICANN > staff be subject to arrest; and ICANN fined for example, should it not > obey a court order in Pakistan or India or anywhere else. > > We can review the specific circumstances in the various cases I > mentioned in passing if you want, but basically the message is as the > Internet and Internet services pervades more deeply into all nation's > daily lives, then we should not be surprised when ICANN is, > eventually, challenged in various nation's courts. Most readily where > the organization has an establishment, meaning staff as in Brussels > and Australia. But even absent staff presence, I could roll out 100 > hypothetical scenarios on how ICANN decisions could be challenged, in > Pakistani or Indian, or Brunei's, really any nation's legal system. > > Just cuz it's a non-profit with a SoCal HQ does not mean the > organization is exempt from - any - legal sanction, anywhere. > > Whether the balance of power over the administration of changes to the > root zone file, and/or the creation of this or that new gtld, should > be a matter of hundreds of national jurisdictions, or handled through > some form of global collective action, is indeed the question. But > while I am practicing law without a license here, as the saying goes > in US domestic politics, at least I am making reality based > statements. Every single thing ICANN does could be challenged in any > national court. Winning a case, and/or explaining to a judge or jury > why a case was brought, is of course never a sure thing. But the > ability in principle of Indian courts to rule on cases in which Indian > citizens, businesses, and/or government agencies claim injury, is not > in any way impaired by the location of ICANN's HQ. > > ICANN, on the other hand, if established under international public or > private law, could indeed gain various immunities, which its actions > do not now enjoy. Milton's 100% right to say careful what we wish for > here, since moving to a treaty or international convention as the > source of ICANN's legal status, could just as easily make ICANN less > responsive as more responsive to national jurisdictions, and > individuals. ANY national jurisdiction. But that is a possibility and > not a certainty, as it would depend on the specifics agreed to by > nations signing onto that hypothetical treaty. > > If you don't believe me, just ask any practicing international > (private) lawyer. I'm guessing her answer would be another question: > how deep are your pockets? : ) But anyone with enough money to make > the challenge to for example - any - gtld string, can follow ICANN > procedures, or they can turn to their own national courts. Although > those courts might find it annoying if they are dragged into the > middle of an arcane dispute if remedies from within the ICANN system > were not exhausted first. > > Unfortunately, like I said some time back, this whole dialogue has > gotten - more or less nowhere - since apparently it is more fun to > flash back to the 80s or hegemonic 70s than try to make sense of what > should be done next, to align ICANN and other elements of Internet > governance more closely with all of the global communities that are > affected by those decisions. > > Since there has been no new or original suggestions made, then we do > seem to be stuck in a time warp. A domestic US non-profit corporation, > albeit one that strives mightily to - should I say sucker, or invite? > : ) - people from around the world to do the heavy volunteer lifting > to keep the global net up and operating, is the main game in the > global Internet governance village, still. > > Seeing as apparently noone has a better idea, or has even concrete > suggestions on how to get from here to there, there being a more > globally equitable future, then yeah we are stuck. Bummer. > > Or maybe, I repeat again, this dialogue, while at times fun, really > suggests it is time to get serious about Norbert's enhanced > cooperation task force idea to figure a way forward. Since none of us > are managing to do any better, absent that. imho. If we are counting > on the ITU to do so in December....well I got a few virtual bridges > for sale that are more solid. Better to give the (IGF-responsive) > task force idea a shot, I suggest. > > Lee > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org > [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] on behalf of parminder > [parminder at itforchange.net] > *Sent:* Sunday, September 09, 2012 2:30 AM > *To:* Milton L Mueller > *Cc:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org > *Subject:* Re: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell > Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs > > > On Thursday 06 September 2012 10:42 PM, Milton L Mueller wrote: >> >> Parminder, your responses are degenerating beyond the point where it >> is worth responding. >> > > You are just getting desperate, Milton... >> >> You seem to be more interested in playing rhetorical games than in >> reaching agreement or improving understanding. >> > > Meaning, rather than simply agreeing with your most untenable > proposition about parity of application of jurisdiction over ICANN > between US and all other 191 states. > >> I will point out the reasons I say these things and then suspend any >> further communication with you on these issues >> >> */[Milton L Mueller] Any law from ANY jurisdiction constraining >> or dictating ICANN’s action would have global effect, insofar as >> the global Internet relies on ICANN to administer the DNS./* >> >> >> Milton, In face of clear facts to the contrary, you continue to claim >> that EU's, India's, Ghana's, all of 192 government's, jurisdictions >> have similar implication and impact on ICANN. I dont think I need to >> labour to disprove this patently absurd proposition. >> >> ØRead my sentence, which is a conditional statement and says that if >> "any law from any jurisdiction" >> >> Øcould "constrain or dictate ICANN's action" it would have global >> effect. >> > > Your above statement - 'If' any law from any jurisdiction 'could' > constrain or dictate ICANN's action, it would have global effect - > says nothing at all other that that 'ICANN's actions have global > effect', something which no one disputes. What other meaning does this > sentence carry? > > What is under disputation is - laws from '*/which/*' jurisdiction can > constraint or dictate ICANN's '/*global*/' actions? You say that laws > from all 192 country jurisdictions have the 'same' (or at least > similar) effect as from US's jurisdiction of 'constraining or > dictating ICANN's /*global*/ action'. This is what I call as a > /*patently absurd proposition. */ > >> But just to continue with the present discussion on the .xxx case, >> even if the ICM registry was * not* US based, the porn industry >> majors could/ would have brought the case against ICANN for >> instituting .xxx (since the registry would of course have serviced >> domain name demands from the US among others). ICANN would still be >> forced to defend itself in the case, and if it lost the case to annul >> or modify .xxx agreement. >> >> ØI have asked you two questions related to this that you have >> steadfastly ducked: >> >> Ø1) Do you think ICANN should be immune from antitrust? Yes or no. >> > > Of course ICANN should be subject to all kinds of public interest > laws, as every entity should be - anti-trust, but also others, like > those aimed at preserving and deepening public domain..... ( thus > being prevented from giving off generic names like school, kid, > beauty, cloud etc as private tlds). > >> Ø2) What stops such a case from being brought in the EU? ICANN has >> offices in Brussels, and its "service" or operations could be >> considered global, thus in the EU. >> > > First of all, you are cleverly skipping examples of India, Ghana and > Bangladesh that I used, and only employing EU's case becuase ICANN has > an office there... Your argument can be challenged simply on this > ground, what about the other countries, especially the developing ones > where ICANN chooses not to have an office. (Equity, Milton, equity, > dont lose sight of this simple democratic value!) > > On the other hand, even if ICANN has a Brussels office, this fact does > not put EU's jurisdiction over ICANN anywhere close to a similar level > to US's. Apart from the fact that, if the push comes to shove, ICANN > can simply close or shift Brussels office, offshore offices have > often claimed lack of control over and accountability for parent > bodies decisions vis a vis the jurisdictions in which they are > located. (This is well known, but if you want examples, I can give them.) > >> It does not take a political scientist to understand that the same is >> not true vis a vis the jurisdiction of any other of 192 countries. >> >> ØYou have not made any argument to explain why this is true. You have >> merely asserted it. >> > > No, I did make a clear argument using the scenario of an .xxx related > case being brought in a Bangladesh court. Pl see my last email to > which you respond. But you completely ignored that argument. > >> ØThe US antitrust case is in fact no different from an antitrust case >> that might be brought in the EU, >> > > Completely wrong. For such a case brought in the EU, even if .xxx > registry was based in EU, (1) ICANN is not obliged to defend the case > (2) even if .xxx was to lose the case, it is the registry that will > have to renege from the ICANN agreement, ICANN would have to do > 'nothing'. However if the case is lost in the US, ICANN itself has to > undertake certain actions- and also keep the judicial verdict in mind > for future actions - something which is incongruent with ICANN's > global governance status. That is the point. > > On the other hand, and I said this in the previous email as well, > which you seem to read selectively, even if .xxx registry was not in > the US, the porn industry could still have brought the case to a US > court against ICANN- .xxx agreement, which is simply not possible vis > a vis any other country jurisdiction. > >> ØIf indeed ICANN were engaged in restraint of the domain name trade >> in conjunction with a EU-based >> >> Øregistry, the effect would be exactly the same in both cases. >> ICANN's status as a California Corp. >> >> Ømakes no difference here. >> > > see above >> >> snip >> >> And if it indeed is already subject to 192 jurisdiction, even >> efficiency, since you dont recognise issues of equity and democracy >> >> ØYou lost me here. I am the one in favor of democracy (e.g., election >> of ICANN board), you are the one in favor of control by states. >> > > I am glad to have an elected board if you can assemble the electorate > in a manner that is equitous and then ensure fair polling. Please tell > me your proposal. As for 'control by the states' I am happy to have > any kind of direct democracy not only in IG space but also all other > spaces of global governance (your view on this please). And till we > have it, instead of one country dictating to the world, > representational democracy will do (while all efforts at national and > international level should be kept up to see that these purported > 'representatives' are indeed democratically so). Imperfect democracy > and representativity cannot be taken as an excuse for perpetuating > hegemony and one-country dictatorship. > > with regards > > parminder > >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Tue Sep 11 06:19:24 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 13:19:24 +0300 Subject: [governance] United Airlines 'Network Outage' Snarls Air Travel In-Reply-To: <504F083A.2050401@digsys.bg> References: <20120911110933.70c0c56a@quill.bollow.ch> <504F083A.2050401@digsys.bg> Message-ID: <504F102C.6020505@gmail.com> Those people who brought us the financial crisis are carrying on as before and in fact are in charge of implementing remedial measures... so par for the course on internet governance I am afraid... just look at the Intellectual Property lobby and coups they have engineered on an open framework in multiple spheres... or how competitive markets are largely and essentially just oligopolistic... for me the latter is most worrying particularly in an MSG context... but this just may be me, perhaps they do want "public interest"to take a knife to a gun fight ; ) On 2012/09/11 12:45 PM, Daniel Kalchev wrote: > > And, those people who endorse such lousy network implementations are > the same people who insist they should govern the Internet? > > Daniel -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Tue Sep 11 06:24:43 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 13:24:43 +0300 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: <504F092B.1090807@itforchange.net> References: <50332E85.8060106@itforchange.net> <50333A5C.7060908@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD21F9B4D@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <5038BD70.7080909@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD22082FD@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <503F0CA3.3020801@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220B5DE@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <504853B4.6080300@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220ED52@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>,<504C3775.10709@itforchange.net> <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B135E25@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> <504F092B.1090807@itforchange.net> Message-ID: <504F116B.1040400@gmail.com> Parminder One can put is also differently... if it is just US law then it does have de facto global application... now if these proposals were to be take seriously... then how would ICANN deal with the issues at the edges... porn in Saudi, religious and political symbols in France, sacred issues in India, etc... most international regimes are adept (if oft inept) at dealing with diversity... do you even see a trace of this in ICANN (although it is improving) or in the discourse... If difference cannot be dealt with operationally in a sound way (i.e. deal with national sentiments, cultures, approaches, alternative conceptions of the good life, etc) then it remains an American imposition at least at the edges (where it does tend to count more than other issues).... And it is not just national or individualistic diversity one is talking about... it is also policy diversity... riaz On 2012/09/11 12:49 PM, parminder wrote: > > > Hi Lee, > > We live in a world that is made of territorially defined and bound > jurisdictions. Plus, there is some international law/ jurisdiction, > albeit rather weak. There are no doubts exceptions, whereby > territorial jurisdictions are able to, in some way or the other, reach > out to other parts of the world. (This mostly happens on the > 'powerful gets his way' principle, which is not to be recommended.) > Admittedly, there are more such instances in a more connected world > today then ever before, but they still are 'exceptions'. The problem > is that Milton and you are trying to propose a governance system out > of these exceptions. No, it doesn't work that way. We cant work with > exceptions, we have to work with the main system. And the main system > is broken, for which please see below... > > > On Monday 10 September 2012 02:11 AM, Lee W McKnight wrote: >> Hey Parminder, >> >> If Milton's signing off, I'll sign on for one more attempt. >> >> My aim is not to encourage lawsuits against the hegemon's proxy ICANN >> - but I feel them coming on anyway, with the .xxx one just the tip of >> the hegemon's melting iceberg. (I'm enjoying this 70s flashback, >> don't get to use the word hegemon twice in one sentence often these >> days : ) > > You do agree that there are many lawsuits coming ICANN's way. Are we > prepared for the outcomes of these lawsuits, which are as inevitable. > How long will the US executive be able to put persuasive pressure on > the US judiciary to not do anything that may rock the boat. I dont > think the US judiciary is that subservient, and, sooner or later,it > will decisively apply the law. In an email on 27th Aug, responding to > my specific poser,David Conrad developed the scenario that may follow > an adverse decision in the .xxx case. It culminated in the > 'possibility' of .xxx having to be removed from the root. Are we > prepared for this eventuality. Would the legitimacy of the system not > collapse right away! (I must mention here that David thought it wont). > > There could be other impacts of an adverse decision in the .xxx case; > ICANN may be directed by the court to review all its policies and > actions vis a vis whatever the court thinks needs to be done to ensure > consistent application of US's anti-trust (or any other) law. ICANN > will immediately *have* to do so.... > > Are you/ we prepared for this very plausible scenario? Responsible > governance systems and its stakeholders do not just sit around and > wait for such a 'very probable' eventuality to happen. What is our > response/ preparation to it? Does this not suggest that the present > system of oversight of, and jurisdiction application over, ICANN is > broken? > > Your and Milton's response to it seems to be: it does not matter if > ICANN has to do all the above things on directions of a US court; we > will simply tell all the outraged/ protesting people from other > countries that ICANN will also respond *exactly" in the same manner if > a court from their countries (India, Ghana, Nepa, Indonesia, Brazil > etc) were to find faults with ICANN and propose remedial measures. > /This will be a patently untrue statement/. I can assure you that no > one will buy it. So, I advice you, please be ready for some other > response. > > As for your and Milton's claim that if ICANN is subject to > international law, the corresponding immunities that it will get from > national jurisdiction could be a problem. Yes, it could be a problem > for USians, since at present ICANN is subject to their national law. > It is not a such problem to people of other countries. On the other > hand, it should be obvious that any international law will be framed > in a manner that takes as much account of ICANN functions as > possible.Even if specific legal provisions do not exist in some > aspects, the international system is capable of delivering on basis of > principles of natural justice and other such forms of jurisprudence. > > Thanks, but we can do without US law getting imposed on the whole > world, which, to me, is what your and Milton's critique of 'any' > international system/ jurisdiction is all about. > > parminder > >> >> So here's my free legal counsel for you: anyone anywhere can play. >> >> Just as there was nothing to prevent Google or Yahoo, or earlier >> Compuserve being taken to court in France or Brazil, or Germany and >> Italy, and senior executives threatened, tried, sentenced and/or >> subject to arrest if they set foot in those countries - meaning even >> if they had no staff there, but just passed through say the Frankfurt >> airport, or stopped in Rome for a vacation - so too could ICANN >> staff be subject to arrest; and ICANN fined for example, should it >> not obey a court order in Pakistan or India or anywhere else. >> >> We can review the specific circumstances in the various cases I >> mentioned in passing if you want, but basically the message is as the >> Internet and Internet services pervades more deeply into all nation's >> daily lives, then we should not be surprised when ICANN is, >> eventually, challenged in various nation's courts. Most readily where >> the organization has an establishment, meaning staff as in Brussels >> and Australia. But even absent staff presence, I could roll out 100 >> hypothetical scenarios on how ICANN decisions could be challenged, in >> Pakistani or Indian, or Brunei's, really any nation's legal system. >> >> Just cuz it's a non-profit with a SoCal HQ does not mean the >> organization is exempt from - any - legal sanction, anywhere. >> >> Whether the balance of power over the administration of changes to >> the root zone file, and/or the creation of this or that new gtld, >> should be a matter of hundreds of national jurisdictions, or handled >> through some form of global collective action, is indeed the >> question. But while I am practicing law without a license here, as >> the saying goes in US domestic politics, at least I am making reality >> based statements. Every single thing ICANN does could be challenged >> in any national court. Winning a case, and/or explaining to a judge >> or jury why a case was brought, is of course never a sure thing. But >> the ability in principle of Indian courts to rule on cases in which >> Indian citizens, businesses, and/or government agencies claim injury, >> is not in any way impaired by the location of ICANN's HQ. >> >> ICANN, on the other hand, if established under international public >> or private law, could indeed gain various immunities, which its >> actions do not now enjoy. Milton's 100% right to say careful what we >> wish for here, since moving to a treaty or international convention >> as the source of ICANN's legal status, could just as easily make >> ICANN less responsive as more responsive to national jurisdictions, >> and individuals. ANY national jurisdiction. But that is a possibility >> and not a certainty, as it would depend on the specifics agreed to by >> nations signing onto that hypothetical treaty. >> >> If you don't believe me, just ask any practicing international >> (private) lawyer. I'm guessing her answer would be another question: >> how deep are your pockets? : ) But anyone with enough money to make >> the challenge to for example - any - gtld string, can follow ICANN >> procedures, or they can turn to their own national courts. Although >> those courts might find it annoying if they are dragged into the >> middle of an arcane dispute if remedies from within the ICANN system >> were not exhausted first. >> >> Unfortunately, like I said some time back, this whole dialogue has >> gotten - more or less nowhere - since apparently it is more fun to >> flash back to the 80s or hegemonic 70s than try to make sense of what >> should be done next, to align ICANN and other elements of Internet >> governance more closely with all of the global communities that are >> affected by those decisions. >> >> Since there has been no new or original suggestions made, then we do >> seem to be stuck in a time warp. A domestic US non-profit >> corporation, albeit one that strives mightily to - should I say >> sucker, or invite? : ) - people from around the world to do the heavy >> volunteer lifting to keep the global net up and operating, is the >> main game in the global Internet governance village, still. >> >> Seeing as apparently noone has a better idea, or has even concrete >> suggestions on how to get from here to there, there being a more >> globally equitable future, then yeah we are stuck. Bummer. >> >> Or maybe, I repeat again, this dialogue, while at times fun, really >> suggests it is time to get serious about Norbert's enhanced >> cooperation task force idea to figure a way forward. Since none of us >> are managing to do any better, absent that. imho. If we are >> counting on the ITU to do so in December....well I got a few virtual >> bridges for sale that are more solid. Better to give the >> (IGF-responsive) task force idea a shot, I suggest. >> >> Lee >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> *From:* governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org >> [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] on behalf of parminder >> [parminder at itforchange.net] >> *Sent:* Sunday, September 09, 2012 2:30 AM >> *To:* Milton L Mueller >> *Cc:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> *Subject:* Re: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell >> Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs >> >> >> On Thursday 06 September 2012 10:42 PM, Milton L Mueller wrote: >>> >>> Parminder, your responses are degenerating beyond the point where it >>> is worth responding. >>> >> >> You are just getting desperate, Milton... >>> >>> You seem to be more interested in playing rhetorical games than in >>> reaching agreement or improving understanding. >>> >> >> Meaning, rather than simply agreeing with your most untenable >> proposition about parity of application of jurisdiction over ICANN >> between US and all other 191 states. >> >>> I will point out the reasons I say these things and then suspend any >>> further communication with you on these issues >>> >>> */[Milton L Mueller] Any law from ANY jurisdiction constraining >>> or dictating ICANN’s action would have global effect, insofar as >>> the global Internet relies on ICANN to administer the DNS./* >>> >>> >>> Milton, In face of clear facts to the contrary, you continue to >>> claim that EU's, India's, Ghana's, all of 192 government's, >>> jurisdictions have similar implication and impact on ICANN. I dont >>> think I need to labour to disprove this patently absurd proposition. >>> >>> ØRead my sentence, which is a conditional statement and says that if >>> "any law from any jurisdiction" >>> >>> Øcould "constrain or dictate ICANN's action" it would have global >>> effect. >>> >> >> Your above statement - 'If' any law from any jurisdiction 'could' >> constrain or dictate ICANN's action, it would have global effect - >> says nothing at all other that that 'ICANN's actions have global >> effect', something which no one disputes. What other meaning does >> this sentence carry? >> >> What is under disputation is - laws from '*/which/*' jurisdiction >> can constraint or dictate ICANN's '/*global*/' actions? You say that >> laws from all 192 country jurisdictions have the 'same' (or at least >> similar) effect as from US's jurisdiction of 'constraining or >> dictating ICANN's /*global*/ action'. This is what I call as a >> /*patently absurd proposition. */ >> >>> But just to continue with the present discussion on the .xxx case, >>> even if the ICM registry was * not* US based, the porn industry >>> majors could/ would have brought the case against ICANN for >>> instituting .xxx (since the registry would of course have serviced >>> domain name demands from the US among others). ICANN would still be >>> forced to defend itself in the case, and if it lost the case to >>> annul or modify .xxx agreement. >>> >>> ØI have asked you two questions related to this that you have >>> steadfastly ducked: >>> >>> Ø1) Do you think ICANN should be immune from antitrust? Yes or no. >>> >> >> Of course ICANN should be subject to all kinds of public interest >> laws, as every entity should be - anti-trust, but also others, like >> those aimed at preserving and deepening public domain..... ( thus >> being prevented from giving off generic names like school, kid, >> beauty, cloud etc as private tlds). >> >>> Ø2) What stops such a case from being brought in the EU? ICANN has >>> offices in Brussels, and its "service" or operations could be >>> considered global, thus in the EU. >>> >> >> First of all, you are cleverly skipping examples of India, Ghana and >> Bangladesh that I used, and only employing EU's case becuase ICANN >> has an office there... Your argument can be challenged simply on this >> ground, what about the other countries, especially the developing >> ones where ICANN chooses not to have an office. (Equity, Milton, >> equity, dont lose sight of this simple democratic value!) >> >> On the other hand, even if ICANN has a Brussels office, this fact >> does not put EU's jurisdiction over ICANN anywhere close to a similar >> level to US's. Apart from the fact that, if the push comes to shove, >> ICANN can simply close or shift Brussels office, offshore offices >> have often claimed lack of control over and accountability for parent >> bodies decisions vis a vis the jurisdictions in which they are >> located. (This is well known, but if you want examples, I can give >> them.) >> >>> It does not take a political scientist to understand that the same >>> is not true vis a vis the jurisdiction of any other of 192 countries. >>> >>> ØYou have not made any argument to explain why this is true. You >>> have merely asserted it. >>> >> >> No, I did make a clear argument using the scenario of an .xxx related >> case being brought in a Bangladesh court. Pl see my last email to >> which you respond. But you completely ignored that argument. >> >>> ØThe US antitrust case is in fact no different from an antitrust >>> case that might be brought in the EU, >>> >> >> Completely wrong. For such a case brought in the EU, even if .xxx >> registry was based in EU, (1) ICANN is not obliged to defend the case >> (2) even if .xxx was to lose the case, it is the registry that will >> have to renege from the ICANN agreement, ICANN would have to do >> 'nothing'. However if the case is lost in the US, ICANN itself has to >> undertake certain actions- and also keep the judicial verdict in mind >> for future actions - something which is incongruent with ICANN's >> global governance status. That is the point. >> >> On the other hand, and I said this in the previous email as well, >> which you seem to read selectively, even if .xxx registry was not in >> the US, the porn industry could still have brought the case to a US >> court against ICANN- .xxx agreement, which is simply not possible vis >> a vis any other country jurisdiction. >> >>> ØIf indeed ICANN were engaged in restraint of the domain name trade >>> in conjunction with a EU-based >>> >>> Øregistry, the effect would be exactly the same in both cases. >>> ICANN's status as a California Corp. >>> >>> Ømakes no difference here. >>> >> >> see above >>> >>> snip >>> >>> And if it indeed is already subject to 192 jurisdiction, even >>> efficiency, since you dont recognise issues of equity and democracy >>> >>> ØYou lost me here. I am the one in favor of democracy (e.g., >>> election of ICANN board), you are the one in favor of control by >>> states. >>> >> >> I am glad to have an elected board if you can assemble the electorate >> in a manner that is equitous and then ensure fair polling. Please >> tell me your proposal. As for 'control by the states' I am happy to >> have any kind of direct democracy not only in IG space but also all >> other spaces of global governance (your view on this please). And >> till we have it, instead of one country dictating to the world, >> representational democracy will do (while all efforts at national and >> international level should be kept up to see that these purported >> 'representatives' are indeed democratically so). Imperfect democracy >> and representativity cannot be taken as an excuse for perpetuating >> hegemony and one-country dictatorship. >> >> with regards >> >> parminder >> >>> >>> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Tue Sep 11 06:27:15 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 13:27:15 +0300 Subject: [governance] Chinese Official Gains Oversight Of UN Internet Governance Forum Message-ID: <504F1203.4090407@gmail.com> Chinese Official Gains Oversight Of UN Internet Governance Forum Published on 10 September 2012 @ 7:09 pm Print This Post Print This Post Intellectual Property Watch By Monika Ermert for /Intellectual Property Watch/ The United Nations Department for Economic and Social Affairs (UNDESA) has a new boss. Chinese career diplomat Wu Hongbo was nominated earlier this year by the UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon, UNDESA only recently announced on its website. Taking office as UN Undersecretary-General for Economic and Social Affairs on 1 August, Wu became responsible for the UN Internet Governance Forum (IGF) as UNDESA oversees the work of the UN Committee on Science and Technology and thereby the follow-up activities to the 2003-2005 UN World Summit of the Information Society (WSIS). In the role, Wu follows Sha Zukang, also from China. According to experts, UNDESA has taken on the proxy for the UN Secretary General who officially convenes the IGF and acted as de-facto supervising agency of the IGF. Many stakeholders of the IGF -- which has been said to be not an official UN body and therefore had to seek financing elsewhere -- have urged the UN administration for quite some time now to fill the vacant positions of the IGF Executive Secretary and also of the "Special Adviser to the UN Secretary General for Internet Governance". Whether Wu will address this before the upcoming IGF meeting in Azerbaijan remains to be seen. Wu formerly held diplomatic positions in Germany, Manila, Hong Kong and at the Sino-British Joint Liaison Group that worked to integrate Hong Kong's administration into China. Related Articles: * Internet Governance Forum Faces Challenges As UN Hears Proposals For New Bodies * At WSIS Forum, Divisions Arise Over Future Of Internet Governance * Enhanced Cooperation Task Force For Internet Governance? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: printer_famfamfam.gif Type: image/gif Size: 1035 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From parminder at itforchange.net Tue Sep 11 07:24:33 2012 From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 16:54:33 +0530 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: <504F116B.1040400@gmail.com> References: <50332E85.8060106@itforchange.net> <50333A5C.7060908@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD21F9B4D@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <5038BD70.7080909@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD22082FD@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <503F0CA3.3020801@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220B5DE@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <504853B4.6080300@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220ED52@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>,<504C3775.10709@itforchange.net> <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B135E25@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> <504F092B.1090807@itforchange.net> <504F116B.1040400@gmail.com> Message-ID: <504F1F71.3000708@itforchange.net> On Tuesday 11 September 2012 03:54 PM, Riaz K Tayob wrote: > Parminder > > One can put is also differently... if it is just US law then it does > have de facto global application... Of course, it is so. Riaz. The exceptions to general rule of national territoriality of jurisdictions has mostly been to US's benefit, given its global power. The principle target of my argument was the proposition that other countries, especially developing ones, could exercise their jurisdiction, to a significant extent, over an US based institution. I simply see no basis for it. While on the issue, exceptions to international law have also mostly been exercised by the US, again, because of its global power. parminder > now if these proposals were to be take seriously... then how would > ICANN deal with the issues at the edges... porn in Saudi, religious > and political symbols in France, sacred issues in India, etc... most > international regimes are adept (if oft inept) at dealing with > diversity... do you even see a trace of this in ICANN (although it is > improving) or in the discourse... > > If difference cannot be dealt with operationally in a sound way (i.e. > deal with national sentiments, cultures, approaches, alternative > conceptions of the good life, etc) then it remains an American > imposition at least at the edges (where it does tend to count more > than other issues).... And it is not just national or individualistic > diversity one is talking about... it is also policy diversity... > > riaz > > > On 2012/09/11 12:49 PM, parminder wrote: >> >> >> Hi Lee, >> >> We live in a world that is made of territorially defined and bound >> jurisdictions. Plus, there is some international law/ jurisdiction, >> albeit rather weak. There are no doubts exceptions, whereby >> territorial jurisdictions are able to, in some way or the other, >> reach out to other parts of the world. (This mostly happens on the >> 'powerful gets his way' principle, which is not to be recommended.) >> Admittedly, there are more such instances in a more connected world >> today then ever before, but they still are 'exceptions'. The problem >> is that Milton and you are trying to propose a governance system out >> of these exceptions. No, it doesn't work that way. We cant work with >> exceptions, we have to work with the main system. And the main system >> is broken, for which please see below... >> >> >> On Monday 10 September 2012 02:11 AM, Lee W McKnight wrote: >>> Hey Parminder, >>> >>> If Milton's signing off, I'll sign on for one more attempt. >>> >>> My aim is not to encourage lawsuits against the hegemon's proxy >>> ICANN - but I feel them coming on anyway, with the .xxx one just the >>> tip of the hegemon's melting iceberg. (I'm enjoying this 70s >>> flashback, don't get to use the word hegemon twice in one sentence >>> often these days : ) >> >> You do agree that there are many lawsuits coming ICANN's way. Are we >> prepared for the outcomes of these lawsuits, which are as inevitable. >> How long will the US executive be able to put persuasive pressure on >> the US judiciary to not do anything that may rock the boat. I dont >> think the US judiciary is that subservient, and, sooner or later,it >> will decisively apply the law. In an email on 27th Aug, responding to >> my specific poser,David Conrad developed the scenario that may follow >> an adverse decision in the .xxx case. It culminated in the >> 'possibility' of .xxx having to be removed from the root. Are we >> prepared for this eventuality. Would the legitimacy of the system not >> collapse right away! (I must mention here that David thought it wont). >> >> There could be other impacts of an adverse decision in the .xxx case; >> ICANN may be directed by the court to review all its policies and >> actions vis a vis whatever the court thinks needs to be done to >> ensure consistent application of US's anti-trust (or any other) law. >> ICANN will immediately *have* to do so.... >> >> Are you/ we prepared for this very plausible scenario? Responsible >> governance systems and its stakeholders do not just sit around and >> wait for such a 'very probable' eventuality to happen. What is our >> response/ preparation to it? Does this not suggest that the present >> system of oversight of, and jurisdiction application over, ICANN is >> broken? >> >> Your and Milton's response to it seems to be: it does not matter if >> ICANN has to do all the above things on directions of a US court; we >> will simply tell all the outraged/ protesting people from other >> countries that ICANN will also respond *exactly" in the same manner >> if a court from their countries (India, Ghana, Nepa, Indonesia, >> Brazil etc) were to find faults with ICANN and propose remedial >> measures. /This will be a patently untrue statement/. I can assure >> you that no one will buy it. So, I advice you, please be ready for >> some other response. >> >> As for your and Milton's claim that if ICANN is subject to >> international law, the corresponding immunities that it will get from >> national jurisdiction could be a problem. Yes, it could be a problem >> for USians, since at present ICANN is subject to their national law. >> It is not a such problem to people of other countries. On the other >> hand, it should be obvious that any international law will be framed >> in a manner that takes as much account of ICANN functions as >> possible.Even if specific legal provisions do not exist in some >> aspects, the international system is capable of delivering on basis >> of principles of natural justice and other such forms of jurisprudence. >> >> Thanks, but we can do without US law getting imposed on the whole >> world, which, to me, is what your and Milton's critique of 'any' >> international system/ jurisdiction is all about. >> >> parminder >> >>> >>> So here's my free legal counsel for you: anyone anywhere can play. >>> >>> Just as there was nothing to prevent Google or Yahoo, or earlier >>> Compuserve being taken to court in France or Brazil, or Germany and >>> Italy, and senior executives threatened, tried, sentenced and/or >>> subject to arrest if they set foot in those countries - meaning even >>> if they had no staff there, but just passed through say the >>> Frankfurt airport, or stopped in Rome for a vacation - so too could >>> ICANN staff be subject to arrest; and ICANN fined for example, >>> should it not obey a court order in Pakistan or India or anywhere else. >>> >>> We can review the specific circumstances in the various cases I >>> mentioned in passing if you want, but basically the message is as >>> the Internet and Internet services pervades more deeply into all >>> nation's daily lives, then we should not be surprised when ICANN is, >>> eventually, challenged in various nation's courts. Most readily >>> where the organization has an establishment, meaning staff as in >>> Brussels and Australia. But even absent staff presence, I could roll >>> out 100 hypothetical scenarios on how ICANN decisions could be >>> challenged, in Pakistani or Indian, or Brunei's, really any nation's >>> legal system. >>> >>> Just cuz it's a non-profit with a SoCal HQ does not mean the >>> organization is exempt from - any - legal sanction, anywhere. >>> >>> Whether the balance of power over the administration of changes to >>> the root zone file, and/or the creation of this or that new gtld, >>> should be a matter of hundreds of national jurisdictions, or handled >>> through some form of global collective action, is indeed the >>> question. But while I am practicing law without a license here, as >>> the saying goes in US domestic politics, at least I am making >>> reality based statements. Every single thing ICANN does could be >>> challenged in any national court. Winning a case, and/or explaining >>> to a judge or jury why a case was brought, is of course never a sure >>> thing. But the ability in principle of Indian courts to rule on >>> cases in which Indian citizens, businesses, and/or government >>> agencies claim injury, is not in any way impaired by the location of >>> ICANN's HQ. >>> >>> ICANN, on the other hand, if established under international public >>> or private law, could indeed gain various immunities, which its >>> actions do not now enjoy. Milton's 100% right to say careful what we >>> wish for here, since moving to a treaty or international convention >>> as the source of ICANN's legal status, could just as easily make >>> ICANN less responsive as more responsive to national jurisdictions, >>> and individuals. ANY national jurisdiction. But that is a >>> possibility and not a certainty, as it would depend on the specifics >>> agreed to by nations signing onto that hypothetical treaty. >>> >>> If you don't believe me, just ask any practicing international >>> (private) lawyer. I'm guessing her answer would be another question: >>> how deep are your pockets? : ) But anyone with enough money to make >>> the challenge to for example - any - gtld string, can follow ICANN >>> procedures, or they can turn to their own national courts. Although >>> those courts might find it annoying if they are dragged into the >>> middle of an arcane dispute if remedies from within the ICANN system >>> were not exhausted first. >>> >>> Unfortunately, like I said some time back, this whole dialogue has >>> gotten - more or less nowhere - since apparently it is more fun to >>> flash back to the 80s or hegemonic 70s than try to make sense of >>> what should be done next, to align ICANN and other elements of >>> Internet governance more closely with all of the global communities >>> that are affected by those decisions. >>> >>> Since there has been no new or original suggestions made, then we do >>> seem to be stuck in a time warp. A domestic US non-profit >>> corporation, albeit one that strives mightily to - should I say >>> sucker, or invite? : ) - people from around the world to do the >>> heavy volunteer lifting to keep the global net up and operating, is >>> the main game in the global Internet governance village, still. >>> >>> Seeing as apparently noone has a better idea, or has even concrete >>> suggestions on how to get from here to there, there being a more >>> globally equitable future, then yeah we are stuck. Bummer. >>> >>> Or maybe, I repeat again, this dialogue, while at times fun, really >>> suggests it is time to get serious about Norbert's enhanced >>> cooperation task force idea to figure a way forward. Since none of >>> us are managing to do any better, absent that. imho. If we are >>> counting on the ITU to do so in December....well I got a few virtual >>> bridges for sale that are more solid. Better to give the >>> (IGF-responsive) task force idea a shot, I suggest. >>> >>> Lee >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> *From:* governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org >>> [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] on behalf of parminder >>> [parminder at itforchange.net] >>> *Sent:* Sunday, September 09, 2012 2:30 AM >>> *To:* Milton L Mueller >>> *Cc:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org >>> *Subject:* Re: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell >>> Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs >>> >>> >>> On Thursday 06 September 2012 10:42 PM, Milton L Mueller wrote: >>>> >>>> Parminder, your responses are degenerating beyond the point where >>>> it is worth responding. >>>> >>> >>> You are just getting desperate, Milton... >>>> >>>> You seem to be more interested in playing rhetorical games than in >>>> reaching agreement or improving understanding. >>>> >>> >>> Meaning, rather than simply agreeing with your most untenable >>> proposition about parity of application of jurisdiction over ICANN >>> between US and all other 191 states. >>> >>>> I will point out the reasons I say these things and then suspend >>>> any further communication with you on these issues >>>> >>>> */[Milton L Mueller] Any law from ANY jurisdiction constraining >>>> or dictating ICANN’s action would have global effect, insofar >>>> as the global Internet relies on ICANN to administer the DNS./* >>>> >>>> >>>> Milton, In face of clear facts to the contrary, you continue to >>>> claim that EU's, India's, Ghana's, all of 192 government's, >>>> jurisdictions have similar implication and impact on ICANN. I dont >>>> think I need to labour to disprove this patently absurd proposition. >>>> >>>> ØRead my sentence, which is a conditional statement and says that >>>> if "any law from any jurisdiction" >>>> >>>> Øcould "constrain or dictate ICANN's action" it would have global >>>> effect. >>>> >>> >>> Your above statement - 'If' any law from any jurisdiction 'could' >>> constrain or dictate ICANN's action, it would have global effect - >>> says nothing at all other that that 'ICANN's actions have global >>> effect', something which no one disputes. What other meaning does >>> this sentence carry? >>> >>> What is under disputation is - laws from '*/which/*' jurisdiction >>> can constraint or dictate ICANN's '/*global*/' actions? You say that >>> laws from all 192 country jurisdictions have the 'same' (or at least >>> similar) effect as from US's jurisdiction of 'constraining or >>> dictating ICANN's /*global*/ action'. This is what I call as a >>> /*patently absurd proposition. */ >>> >>>> But just to continue with the present discussion on the .xxx case, >>>> even if the ICM registry was * not* US based, the porn industry >>>> majors could/ would have brought the case against ICANN for >>>> instituting .xxx (since the registry would of course have serviced >>>> domain name demands from the US among others). ICANN would still be >>>> forced to defend itself in the case, and if it lost the case to >>>> annul or modify .xxx agreement. >>>> >>>> ØI have asked you two questions related to this that you have >>>> steadfastly ducked: >>>> >>>> Ø1) Do you think ICANN should be immune from antitrust? Yes or no. >>>> >>> >>> Of course ICANN should be subject to all kinds of public interest >>> laws, as every entity should be - anti-trust, but also others, like >>> those aimed at preserving and deepening public domain..... ( thus >>> being prevented from giving off generic names like school, kid, >>> beauty, cloud etc as private tlds). >>> >>>> Ø2) What stops such a case from being brought in the EU? ICANN has >>>> offices in Brussels, and its "service" or operations could be >>>> considered global, thus in the EU. >>>> >>> >>> First of all, you are cleverly skipping examples of India, Ghana and >>> Bangladesh that I used, and only employing EU's case becuase ICANN >>> has an office there... Your argument can be challenged simply on >>> this ground, what about the other countries, especially the >>> developing ones where ICANN chooses not to have an office. (Equity, >>> Milton, equity, dont lose sight of this simple democratic value!) >>> >>> On the other hand, even if ICANN has a Brussels office, this fact >>> does not put EU's jurisdiction over ICANN anywhere close to a >>> similar level to US's. Apart from the fact that, if the push comes >>> to shove, ICANN can simply close or shift Brussels office, offshore >>> offices have often claimed lack of control over and accountability >>> for parent bodies decisions vis a vis the jurisdictions in which >>> they are located. (This is well known, but if you want examples, I >>> can give them.) >>> >>>> It does not take a political scientist to understand that the same >>>> is not true vis a vis the jurisdiction of any other of 192 countries. >>>> >>>> ØYou have not made any argument to explain why this is true. You >>>> have merely asserted it. >>>> >>> >>> No, I did make a clear argument using the scenario of an .xxx >>> related case being brought in a Bangladesh court. Pl see my last >>> email to which you respond. But you completely ignored that argument. >>> >>>> ØThe US antitrust case is in fact no different from an antitrust >>>> case that might be brought in the EU, >>>> >>> >>> Completely wrong. For such a case brought in the EU, even if .xxx >>> registry was based in EU, (1) ICANN is not obliged to defend the >>> case (2) even if .xxx was to lose the case, it is the registry that >>> will have to renege from the ICANN agreement, ICANN would have to do >>> 'nothing'. However if the case is lost in the US, ICANN itself has >>> to undertake certain actions- and also keep the judicial verdict in >>> mind for future actions - something which is incongruent with >>> ICANN's global governance status. That is the point. >>> >>> On the other hand, and I said this in the previous email as well, >>> which you seem to read selectively, even if .xxx registry was not in >>> the US, the porn industry could still have brought the case to a US >>> court against ICANN- .xxx agreement, which is simply not possible >>> vis a vis any other country jurisdiction. >>> >>>> ØIf indeed ICANN were engaged in restraint of the domain name trade >>>> in conjunction with a EU-based >>>> >>>> Øregistry, the effect would be exactly the same in both cases. >>>> ICANN's status as a California Corp. >>>> >>>> Ømakes no difference here. >>>> >>> >>> see above >>>> >>>> snip >>>> >>>> And if it indeed is already subject to 192 jurisdiction, even >>>> efficiency, since you dont recognise issues of equity and democracy >>>> >>>> ØYou lost me here. I am the one in favor of democracy (e.g., >>>> election of ICANN board), you are the one in favor of control by >>>> states. >>>> >>> >>> I am glad to have an elected board if you can assemble the >>> electorate in a manner that is equitous and then ensure fair >>> polling. Please tell me your proposal. As for 'control by the >>> states' I am happy to have any kind of direct democracy not only in >>> IG space but also all other spaces of global governance (your view >>> on this please). And till we have it, instead of one country >>> dictating to the world, representational democracy will do (while >>> all efforts at national and international level should be kept up to >>> see that these purported 'representatives' are indeed democratically >>> so). Imperfect democracy and representativity cannot be taken as an >>> excuse for perpetuating hegemony and one-country dictatorship. >>> >>> with regards >>> >>> parminder >>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Tue Sep 11 07:50:57 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 17:20:57 +0530 Subject: [governance] United Airlines 'Network Outage' Snarls Air Travel In-Reply-To: <504F083A.2050401@digsys.bg> References: <20120911110933.70c0c56a@quill.bollow.ch> <504F083A.2050401@digsys.bg> Message-ID: Daniel, Further to lousy networks - I've seen some airline network setups here - they are resilient to _only_ one disaster. That is fire. Anything else (i.e. if the circuit breaker trips) will take the network down. The guilty shall not be named - but it's likely a fair few organizations skip out on the obvious where this is concerned. -C On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 3:15 PM, Daniel Kalchev wrote: > > > On 11.09.12 12:09, Norbert Bollow wrote: > >> Charity Gamboa wrote: >> >> You know - network outage may happen anywhere. >>> >> It's possible to design a network for resilience, with enough >> redundancy to avoid any single points of failure. This is significantly >> more expensive (you don't only have to pay for more equipment, but >> also more expensive experts to design and implement it), but I think >> that an airline which doesn't have this kind of robust network really >> doesn't have any excuse. >> > > Very much agree. The thing is, all these airlines claim, and are > "obviously" certified to have such infrastructure in place. > Not only the airlines, but everywhere around us there is too much public > infrastructure, that implemented in so many naive ways, that it barely > "somehow works". > > It is not only about being "more expensive". These airlines probably > already paid more than enough to bunch of "certified experts" and all sorts > of consultants. Since networking of this kind is relatively "new", the > principle "anything goes" applies. > > And, those people who endorse such lousy network implementations are the > same people who insist they should govern the Internet? > > Daniel > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Tue Sep 11 07:52:13 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 17:22:13 +0530 Subject: [governance] United Airlines 'Network Outage' Snarls Air Travel In-Reply-To: <504F102C.6020505@gmail.com> References: <20120911110933.70c0c56a@quill.bollow.ch> <504F083A.2050401@digsys.bg> <504F102C.6020505@gmail.com> Message-ID: Like the y2k problem where some consultants just took a vacation November to January and came back to an "it's all OK now!!" and collected consultancy fees ;) -C On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 3:49 PM, Riaz K Tayob wrote: > Those people who brought us the financial crisis are carrying on as before > and in fact are in charge of implementing remedial measures... so par for > the course on internet governance I am afraid... just look at the > Intellectual Property lobby and coups they have engineered on an open > framework in multiple spheres... or how competitive markets are largely and > essentially just oligopolistic... for me the latter is most worrying > particularly in an MSG context... but this just may be me, perhaps they do > want "public interest"to take a knife to a gun fight ; ) > > > > > > On 2012/09/11 12:45 PM, Daniel Kalchev wrote: > >> >> And, those people who endorse such lousy network implementations are the >> same people who insist they should govern the Internet? >> >> Daniel >> > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From daniel at digsys.bg Tue Sep 11 08:33:51 2012 From: daniel at digsys.bg (Daniel Kalchev) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 15:33:51 +0300 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: <504F1F71.3000708@itforchange.net> References: <50332E85.8060106@itforchange.net> <50333A5C.7060908@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD21F9B4D@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <5038BD70.7080909@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD22082FD@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <503F0CA3.3020801@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220B5DE@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <504853B4.6080300@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220ED52@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>,<504C3775.10709@itforchange.net> <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B135E25@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> <504F092B.1090807@itforchange.net> <504F116B.1040400@gmail.com> <504F1F71.3000708@itforchange.net> Message-ID: <504F2FAF.1010904@digsys.bg> On 11.09.12 14:24, parminder wrote: > > On Tuesday 11 September 2012 03:54 PM, Riaz K Tayob wrote: >> Parminder >> >> One can put is also differently... if it is just US law then it does >> have de facto global application... > > Of course, it is so. Riaz. The exceptions to general rule of national > territoriality of jurisdictions has mostly been to US's benefit, given > its global power. The principle target of my argument was the > proposition that other countries, especially developing ones, could > exercise their jurisdiction, to a significant extent, over an US based > institution. I simply see no basis for it. There is one fundamental problem with exercising one's sovereignty: you remain isolated. Example: the former "East Block" -- it has all the sovereignty it desired but it came with certain isolation from the rest of the world. Other examples are the various countries that experiment with their sovereignty only to discover they are subject to some sort of embargo. The world has always been this way, since "laws" exist. Most laws have as their primary purpose to restrict the individual's freedom (their ability to exercise their very own sovereignty) in exchange for "public good" promises etc. > While on the issue, exceptions to international law have also mostly > been exercised by the US, again, because of its global power. > Everyone discovers one day that justice is always on the side of the stronger party. It has been so for millenniums. It is the lion that eats the gazelle and would not care less if the gazelle intends to exercise it's sovereignty in any way. A while ago we discussed what everyone and anyone can do to behave on Internet. Many people mistakenly believe that ICANN has any powers when it comes to operation of the Internet. ICANN is just a forum. Even if you could usurp an forum, that won't change anything. If someone wants their country to become important player in Internet, then just make it so: invest in whatever infrastructure and services it takes and that country will be important player in Internet. Typically, insistence by strangers that they should control something, that someone else built is ignored -- unless those strangers turn out to be the prevailing party... Daniel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Tue Sep 11 12:30:57 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 22:00:57 +0530 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: <504F2FAF.1010904@digsys.bg> References: <50332E85.8060106@itforchange.net> <50333A5C.7060908@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD21F9B4D@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <5038BD70.7080909@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD22082FD@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <503F0CA3.3020801@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220B5DE@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <504853B4.6080300@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220ED52@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <504C3775.10709@itforchange.net> <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B135E25@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> <504F092B.1090807@itforchange.net> <504F116B.1040400@gmail.com> <504F1F71.3000708@itforchange.net> <504F2FAF.1010904@digsys.bg> Message-ID: > > Everyone discovers one day that justice is always on the side of the > stronger party. It has been so for millenniums. > > Exactly! I was trying to figure a great way to say this - but that's about as perfect as that line can get. Always with the stronger party, so true! (I would say 'millennia' but that's cool too) -C On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 6:03 PM, Daniel Kalchev wrote: > On 11.09.12 14:24, parminder wrote: > > > On Tuesday 11 September 2012 03:54 PM, Riaz K Tayob wrote: > > Parminder > > One can put is also differently... if it is just US law then it does have > de facto global application... > > > Of course, it is so. Riaz. The exceptions to general rule of national > territoriality of jurisdictions has mostly been to US's benefit, given its > global power. The principle target of my argument was the proposition that > other countries, especially developing ones, could exercise their > jurisdiction, to a significant extent, over an US based institution. I > simply see no basis for it. > > > There is one fundamental problem with exercising one's sovereignty: you > remain isolated. > Example: the former "East Block" -- it has all the sovereignty it desired > but it came with certain isolation from the rest of the world. > Other examples are the various countries that experiment with their > sovereignty only to discover they are subject to some sort of embargo. > The world has always been this way, since "laws" exist. Most laws have as > their primary purpose to restrict the individual's freedom (their ability > to exercise their very own sovereignty) in exchange for "public good" > promises etc. > > > While on the issue, exceptions to international law have also mostly been > exercised by the US, again, because of its global power. > > > Everyone discovers one day that justice is always on the side of the > stronger party. It has been so for millenniums. > It is the lion that eats the gazelle and would not care less if the > gazelle intends to exercise it's sovereignty in any way. > > A while ago we discussed what everyone and anyone can do to behave on > Internet. Many people mistakenly believe that ICANN has any powers when it > comes to operation of the Internet. ICANN is just a forum. Even if you > could usurp an forum, that won't change anything. > > If someone wants their country to become important player in Internet, > then just make it so: invest in whatever infrastructure and services it > takes and that country will be important player in Internet. > Typically, insistence by strangers that they should control something, > that someone else built is ignored -- unless those strangers turn out to be > the prevailing party... > > Daniel > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From pranesh at cis-india.org Tue Sep 11 14:14:25 2012 From: pranesh at cis-india.org (Pranesh Prakash) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 23:44:25 +0530 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: <50333A5C.7060908@itforchange.net> References: <50332E85.8060106@itforchange.net> <50333A5C.7060908@itforchange.net> Message-ID: <504F7F81.6020705@cis-india.org> parminder [2012-08-21 13:05]: > I am > speaking about applicability of the jurisdiction of US courts on all ICANN > decisions. And since US courts apply US law, it is the applicability of US > laws over all ICANN decisions, which is also called 'oversight'. And I dont > like anything that calls itself a global system/ infrastructure to be > subject to laws that I do not have an opportunity to participate in making. Which law would you like ICANN to be subject to? After all, given that they are a brick-and-mortar organization, they will have to subject themselves to one nation's law or another's. Which one should it be, then? ~ Pranesh -- Pranesh Prakash Policy Director Centre for Internet and Society T: +91 80 40926283 | W: http://cis-india.org PGP ID: 0x1D5C5F07 | Twitter: @pranesh_prakash -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 259 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From pranesh at cis-india.org Tue Sep 11 14:23:02 2012 From: pranesh at cis-india.org (Pranesh Prakash) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 23:53:02 +0530 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: <50333A5C.7060908@itforchange.net> References: <50332E85.8060106@itforchange.net> <50333A5C.7060908@itforchange.net> Message-ID: <504F8186.4090005@cis-india.org> parminder [2012-08-21 13:05]: > Simple democratic principle. No legislation without representation....... Section 1(2) of India's Information Technology Act, 2000: 1. Short title, extent, commencement and application (1) This Act may be called the Information Technology Act, 2000. (2) It shall extend to the whole of India and, save as otherwise provided in this Act, it applies also to any offence or contravention thereunder committed outside India by any person. Section 75 of India's Information Technology Act, 2000: 75. Act to apply for offence or contravention committed outside India. (1) Subject to the provisions of sub-section (2), the provisions of this Act shall apply also to any offence or contravention committed outside India by any person irrespective of his nationality. (2) For the purposes of sub-section (1), this Act shall apply to an offence or contravention committed outside India by any person if the act or conduct constituting the offence or contravention involves a computer, computer system or computer network located in India. -- Pranesh Prakash Policy Director Centre for Internet and Society T: +91 80 40926283 | W: http://cis-india.org PGP ID: 0x1D5C5F07 | Twitter: @pranesh_prakash -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 259 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From pranesh at cis-india.org Tue Sep 11 14:34:32 2012 From: pranesh at cis-india.org (Pranesh Prakash) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 00:04:32 +0530 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: <503A0B86.6040707@itforchange.net> References: <50332E85.8060106@itforchange.net> <011001cd7fba$fbd55840$f38008c0$@jstyre.com> <5035C7C5.4030706@itforchange.net> ,<50388380.4000905@itforchange.net> <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B13088C@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> <503A0B86.6040707@itforchange.net> Message-ID: <504F8438.804@cis-india.org> parminder [2012-08-26 17:11]: > On Saturday 25 August 2012 09:40 PM, Lee W McKnight wrote: >> Where we go from here is the question. >> >> 1 scenario is status quo, 2nd is ICANN as a free-floating international org. > > >> >> Several of us have been asking you to try again to come up with a viable >> 'Third Way' model. >> >> You're saying we academic weenies should go next or what are we good for. > > No, Lee, this is not true. Many aspects of such a viable alternatives have > been discussed here in good detail - like, a OECD's CCICP like body to look > at global Internet policy matters but not CIR oversight, a kind of > international CIR Oversight Board with very clearly delimited remit, > judicial review with the International Court of Justice, a better > geographic distribution of root servers etc..... 1. Which of these alternatives would help address jurisdictional issues over ICANN which was the issue at the beginning of this thread, and how exactly would that work? Even if the ICJ had jurisdiction (!), which law would it apply, i.e., what would the lex causae be? In short: which (inter)national law would ICANN be subject to in case of a competition law / antitrust case? 2. Are you talking about geographic distribution of root servers or geographic distribution of headquarters of root server operators? The first seems a pointless ask. The second is perhaps a more genuine concern, but runs into the same questions as in 1, and the same questions that you yourself raised. -- Pranesh Prakash Policy Director Centre for Internet and Society T: +91 80 40926283 | W: http://cis-india.org PGP ID: 0x1D5C5F07 | Twitter: @pranesh_prakash -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 259 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Tue Sep 11 15:18:42 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 07:18:42 +1200 Subject: [governance] Freedom Online Conference Nairobi now live In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Lillian, Thank you for alerting us to an excellent conference and there are many of us who followed the sessions closely and were tweeting at the same time. The streaming was excellent. We also anticipate the 2014 Conference that will be hosted in Tunisia. Warm Regards, Sala On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 7:33 PM, Lillian Nalwoga wrote: > Hello members, > > You can now follow the Freedom Online Conference Nairobi live @ > http://trincmedia.com/live/ and on twitter #ofKe , #FreedomOnlineKe > > Regards, > > Lillian > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Tue Sep 11 15:37:14 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 07:37:14 +1200 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: <504F116B.1040400@gmail.com> References: <50332E85.8060106@itforchange.net> <50333A5C.7060908@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD21F9B4D@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <5038BD70.7080909@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD22082FD@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <503F0CA3.3020801@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220B5DE@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <504853B4.6080300@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220ED52@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <504C3775.10709@itforchange.net> <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B135E25@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> <504F092B.1090807@itforchange.net> <504F116B.1040400@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 10:24 PM, Riaz K Tayob wrote: > Parminder > > One can put is also differently... if it is just US law then it does have > de facto global application... now if these proposals were to be take > seriously... then how would ICANN deal with the issues at the edges... porn > in Saudi, religious and political symbols in France, sacred issues in > India, etc... most international regimes are adept (if oft inept) at > dealing with diversity... do you even see a trace of this in ICANN > (although it is improving) or in the discourse... > > In relation to the issues you raise, Article 19 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) already raises the three exceptions, national security, public morality and if provided for by law. I think there is some confusion with governance. ICANN is kind of like a phone book. Countries are sovereign and free to have a McDonalds in their country and if it is their preference not to create "beef-based" products in India or "pork based products in other countries just means that countries choose what they want in their own countries. Even with the case of Vinay Rai, the Editor of an Indian newspaper who went to the New Delhi courts to take Facebook and Google to take down certain sites which he demanded were in violation of India's national laws. > If difference cannot be dealt with operationally in a sound way (i.e. deal > with national sentiments, cultures, approaches, alternative conceptions of > the good life, etc) then it remains an American imposition at least at the > edges. > Having participated in policy processes and commenting on them, I can say that they welcome input and diversity. How can one complain unless one participates? > (where it does tend to count more than other issues).... And it is not > just national or individualistic diversity one is talking about... it is > also policy diversity... > > Participate in the Policy discussions and you will see the Policy diversity. I mean look at the IDNs and the policies being developed, is that not diversity enough? I riaz > > > > On 2012/09/11 12:49 PM, parminder wrote: > > > > Hi Lee, > > We live in a world that is made of territorially defined and bound > jurisdictions. Plus, there is some international law/ jurisdiction, albeit > rather weak. There are no doubts exceptions, whereby territorial > jurisdictions are able to, in some way or the other, reach out to other > parts of the world. (This mostly happens on the 'powerful gets his way' > principle, which is not to be recommended.) Admittedly, there are more such > instances in a more connected world today then ever before, but they still > are 'exceptions'. The problem is that Milton and you are trying to propose > a governance system out of these exceptions. No, it doesn't work that way. > We cant work with exceptions, we have to work with the main system. And the > main system is broken, for which please see below... > > > On Monday 10 September 2012 02:11 AM, Lee W McKnight wrote: > > Hey Parminder, > > If Milton's signing off, I'll sign on for one more attempt. > > My aim is not to encourage lawsuits against the hegemon's proxy ICANN - > but I feel them coming on anyway, with the .xxx one just the tip of the > hegemon's melting iceberg. (I'm enjoying this 70s flashback, don't get to > use the word hegemon twice in one sentence often these days : ) > > > You do agree that there are many lawsuits coming ICANN's way. Are we > prepared for the outcomes of these lawsuits, which are as inevitable. How > long will the US executive be able to put persuasive pressure on the US > judiciary to not do anything that may rock the boat. I dont think the US > judiciary is that subservient, and, sooner or later, it will decisively > apply the law. In an email on 27th Aug, responding to my specific poser,David Conrad developed the scenario that may follow an adverse decision in > the .xxx case. It culminated in the 'possibility' of .xxx having to be > removed from the root. Are we prepared for this eventuality. Would the > legitimacy of the system not collapse right away! (I must mention here that > David thought it wont). > > There could be other impacts of an adverse decision in the .xxx case; > ICANN may be directed by the court to review all its policies and actions > vis a vis whatever the court thinks needs to be done to ensure consistent > application of US's anti-trust (or any other) law. ICANN will immediately *have* > to do so.... > > Are you/ we prepared for this very plausible scenario? Responsible > governance systems and its stakeholders do not just sit around and wait for > such a 'very probable' eventuality to happen. What is our response/ > preparation to it? Does this not suggest that the present system of > oversight of, and jurisdiction application over, ICANN is broken? > > Your and Milton's response to it seems to be: it does not matter if ICANN > has to do all the above things on directions of a US court; we will simply > tell all the outraged/ protesting people from other countries that ICANN > will also respond *exactly" in the same manner if a court from their > countries (India, Ghana, Nepa, Indonesia, Brazil etc) were to find faults > with ICANN and propose remedial measures. *This will be a patently untrue > statement*. I can assure you that no one will buy it. So, I advice you, > please be ready for some other response. > > As for your and Milton's claim that if ICANN is subject to international > law, the corresponding immunities that it will get from national > jurisdiction could be a problem. Yes, it could be a problem for USians, > since at present ICANN is subject to their national law. It is not a such > problem to people of other countries. On the other hand, it should be > obvious that any international law will be framed in a manner that takes as > much account of ICANN functions as possible. Even if specific legal > provisions do not exist in some aspects, the international system is > capable of delivering on basis of principles of natural justice and other > such forms of jurisprudence. > > Thanks, but we can do without US law getting imposed on the whole world, > which, to me, is what your and Milton's critique of 'any' international > system/ jurisdiction is all about. > > parminder > > > So here's my free legal counsel for you: anyone anywhere can play. > > Just as there was nothing to prevent Google or Yahoo, or earlier > Compuserve being taken to court in France or Brazil, or Germany and Italy, > and senior executives threatened, tried, sentenced and/or subject to arrest > if they set foot in those countries - meaning even if they had no staff > there, but just passed through say the Frankfurt airport, or stopped in > Rome for a vacation - so too could ICANN staff be subject to arrest; and > ICANN fined for example, should it not obey a court order in Pakistan or > India or anywhere else. > > We can review the specific circumstances in the various cases I mentioned > in passing if you want, but basically the message is as the Internet and > Internet services pervades more deeply into all nation's daily lives, then > we should not be surprised when ICANN is, eventually, challenged in various > nation's courts. Most readily where the organization has an establishment, > meaning staff as in Brussels and Australia. But even absent staff presence, > I could roll out 100 hypothetical scenarios on how ICANN decisions could be > challenged, in Pakistani or Indian, or Brunei's, really any nation's legal > system. > > Just cuz it's a non-profit with a SoCal HQ does not mean the organization > is exempt from - any - legal sanction, anywhere. > > Whether the balance of power over the administration of changes to the > root zone file, and/or the creation of this or that new gtld, should be a > matter of hundreds of national jurisdictions, or handled through some form > of global collective action, is indeed the question. But while I am > practicing law without a license here, as the saying goes in US domestic > politics, at least I am making reality based statements. Every single > thing ICANN does could be challenged in any national court. Winning a > case, and/or explaining to a judge or jury why a case was brought, is of > course never a sure thing. But the ability in principle of Indian courts to > rule on cases in which Indian citizens, businesses, and/or government > agencies claim injury, is not in any way impaired by the location of > ICANN's HQ. > > ICANN, on the other hand, if established under international public or > private law, could indeed gain various immunities, which its actions do not > now enjoy. Milton's 100% right to say careful what we wish for here, since > moving to a treaty or international convention as the source of ICANN's > legal status, could just as easily make ICANN less responsive as more > responsive to national jurisdictions, and individuals. ANY national > jurisdiction. But that is a possibility and not a certainty, as it would > depend on the specifics agreed to by nations signing onto that hypothetical > treaty. > > If you don't believe me, just ask any practicing international (private) > lawyer. I'm guessing her answer would be another question: how deep are > your pockets? : ) But anyone with enough money to make the challenge to for > example - any - gtld string, can follow ICANN procedures, or they can turn > to their own national courts. Although those courts might find it annoying > if they are dragged into the middle of an arcane dispute if remedies from > within the ICANN system were not exhausted first. > > Unfortunately, like I said some time back, this whole dialogue has gotten > - more or less nowhere - since apparently it is more fun to flash back to > the 80s or hegemonic 70s than try to make sense of what should be done > next, to align ICANN and other elements of Internet governance more closely > with all of the global communities that are affected by those decisions. > > Since there has been no new or original suggestions made, then we do seem > to be stuck in a time warp. A domestic US non-profit corporation, albeit > one that strives mightily to - should I say sucker, or invite? : ) - people > from around the world to do the heavy volunteer lifting to keep the global > net up and operating, is the main game in the global Internet governance > village, still. > > Seeing as apparently noone has a better idea, or has even concrete > suggestions on how to get from here to there, there being a more globally > equitable future, then yeah we are stuck. Bummer. > > Or maybe, I repeat again, this dialogue, while at times fun, really > suggests it is time to get serious about Norbert's enhanced cooperation > task force idea to figure a way forward. Since none of us are managing to > do any better, absent that. imho. If we are counting on the ITU to do so > in December....well I got a few virtual bridges for sale that are more > solid. Better to give the (IGF-responsive) task force idea a shot, I > suggest. > > Lee > > ------------------------------ > *From:* governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [ > governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] on behalf of parminder [ > parminder at itforchange.net] > *Sent:* Sunday, September 09, 2012 2:30 AM > *To:* Milton L Mueller > *Cc:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org > *Subject:* Re: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell > Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs > > > On Thursday 06 September 2012 10:42 PM, Milton L Mueller wrote: > > Parminder, your responses are degenerating beyond the point where it is > worth responding. > > > You are just getting desperate, Milton... > > You seem to be more interested in playing rhetorical games than in > reaching agreement or improving understanding. > > > Meaning, rather than simply agreeing with your most untenable proposition > about parity of application of jurisdiction over ICANN between US and all > other 191 states. > > I will point out the reasons I say these things and then suspend any > further communication with you on these issues > > > > *[Milton L Mueller] Any law from ANY jurisdiction constraining or > dictating ICANN’s action would have global effect, insofar as the global > Internet relies on ICANN to administer the DNS.* > > > Milton, In face of clear facts to the contrary, you continue to claim that > EU's, India's, Ghana's, all of 192 government's, jurisdictions have similar > implication and impact on ICANN. I dont think I need to labour to disprove > this patently absurd proposition. > > > > Ø Read my sentence, which is a conditional statement and says that if > "any law from any jurisdiction" > > Ø could "constrain or dictate ICANN's action" it would have global > effect. > > > Your above statement - 'If' any law from any jurisdiction 'could' > constrain or dictate ICANN's action, it would have global effect - says > nothing at all other that that 'ICANN's actions have global effect', > something which no one disputes. What other meaning does this sentence > carry? > > What is under disputation is - laws from '*which*' jurisdiction can > constraint or dictate ICANN's '*global*' actions? You say that laws from > all 192 country jurisdictions have the 'same' (or at least similar) effect > as from US's jurisdiction of 'constraining or dictating ICANN's *global*action'. This is what I call as a > *patently absurd proposition. * > > > > But just to continue with the present discussion on the .xxx case, even if > the ICM registry was * not* US based, the porn industry majors could/ would > have brought the case against ICANN for instituting .xxx (since the > registry would of course have serviced domain name demands from the US > among others). ICANN would still be forced to defend itself in the case, > and if it lost the case to annul or modify .xxx agreement. > > > > Ø I have asked you two questions related to this that you have > steadfastly ducked: > > Ø 1) Do you think ICANN should be immune from antitrust? Yes or no. > > > Of course ICANN should be subject to all kinds of public interest laws, as > every entity should be - anti-trust, but also others, like those aimed at > preserving and deepening public domain..... ( thus being prevented from > giving off generic names like school, kid, beauty, cloud etc as private > tlds). > > Ø 2) What stops such a case from being brought in the EU? ICANN has > offices in Brussels, and its "service" or operations could be considered > global, thus in the EU. > > > First of all, you are cleverly skipping examples of India, Ghana and > Bangladesh that I used, and only employing EU's case becuase ICANN has an > office there... Your argument can be challenged simply on this ground, what > about the other countries, especially the developing ones where ICANN > chooses not to have an office. (Equity, Milton, equity, dont lose sight of > this simple democratic value!) > > On the other hand, even if ICANN has a Brussels office, this fact does not > put EU's jurisdiction over ICANN anywhere close to a similar level to US's. > Apart from the fact that, if the push comes to shove, ICANN can simply > close or shift Brussels office, offshore offices have often claimed lack > of control over and accountability for parent bodies decisions vis a vis > the jurisdictions in which they are located. (This is well known, but if > you want examples, I can give them.) > > > > It does not take a political scientist to understand that the same is not > true vis a vis the jurisdiction of any other of 192 countries. > > > > Ø You have not made any argument to explain why this is true. You have > merely asserted it. > > > No, I did make a clear argument using the scenario of an .xxx related case > being brought in a Bangladesh court. Pl see my last email to which you > respond. But you completely ignored that argument. > > Ø The US antitrust case is in fact no different from an antitrust case > that might be brought in the EU, > > > Completely wrong. For such a case brought in the EU, even if .xxx registry > was based in EU, (1) ICANN is not obliged to defend the case (2) even if > .xxx was to lose the case, it is the registry that will have to renege from > the ICANN agreement, ICANN would have to do 'nothing'. However if the case > is lost in the US, ICANN itself has to undertake certain actions- and also > keep the judicial verdict in mind for future actions - something which is > incongruent with ICANN's global governance status. That is the point. > > On the other hand, and I said this in the previous email as well, which > you seem to read selectively, even if .xxx registry was not in the US, the > porn industry could still have brought the case to a US court against > ICANN- .xxx agreement, which is simply not possible vis a vis any other > country jurisdiction. > > Ø If indeed ICANN were engaged in restraint of the domain name trade > in conjunction with a EU-based > > Ø registry, the effect would be exactly the same in both cases. ICANN's > status as a California Corp. > > Ø makes no difference here. > > > see above > > snip > > > > And if it indeed is already subject to 192 jurisdiction, even efficiency, > since you dont recognise issues of equity and democracy > > Ø You lost me here. I am the one in favor of democracy (e.g., election > of ICANN board), you are the one in favor of control by states. > > > I am glad to have an elected board if you can assemble the electorate in a > manner that is equitous and then ensure fair polling. Please tell me your > proposal. As for 'control by the states' I am happy to have any kind of > direct democracy not only in IG space but also all other spaces of global > governance (your view on this please). And till we have it, instead of one > country dictating to the world, representational democracy will do (while > all efforts at national and international level should be kept up to see > that these purported 'representatives' are indeed democratically so). > Imperfect democracy and representativity cannot be taken as an excuse for > perpetuating hegemony and one-country dictatorship. > > with regards > > parminder > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From mariliamaciel at gmail.com Tue Sep 11 16:12:59 2012 From: mariliamaciel at gmail.com (Marilia Maciel) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 17:12:59 -0300 Subject: [governance] Facebook and the nipplegate: New Yorker temporarily banned Message-ID: A funnier way to continue the discussion about FB policy and their awkward views on nudity. http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/cartoonists/2012/09/nipplegate-why-the-new-yorker-cartoon-department-is-about-to-be-banned-from-facebook.html?currentPage=all -- Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade FGV Direito Rio Center for Technology and Society Getulio Vargas Foundation Rio de Janeiro - Brazil -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From lmcknigh at syr.edu Tue Sep 11 17:33:43 2012 From: lmcknigh at syr.edu (Lee W McKnight) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 21:33:43 +0000 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: References: <50332E85.8060106@itforchange.net> <50333A5C.7060908@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD21F9B4D@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <5038BD70.7080909@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD22082FD@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <503F0CA3.3020801@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220B5DE@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <504853B4.6080300@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220ED52@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <504C3775.10709@itforchange.net> <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B135E25@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> <504F092B.1090807@itforchange.net> <504F116B.1040400@gmail.com>, Message-ID: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B137626@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> Hi again, I will try one last time to assist moving the dialog along. A) By now it should be clear that when we talk about matters of non-profit law, it is a state-level matter in the US although it also ties into federal law for an organization wishing to avoid national income taxes. As Milton and I have pointed out, we can all complain about things Californian including their rather dysfunctional state government; but California non-profit law is pretty benign and compares reasonably well with most others. 2 Conclusions: 1) We can reincorporate ICANN somewhere else but to get away from California state law for non-profits is not a great reason for what would be a big effort. 2) Some may prefer Indian or European or Brazilian or whomever's law for non-profits but this is really not going to work as a rallying cry for a dramatic change in ICANN. 3) As Sala and otehrs have pointed out, getting away from the extraterritorial arm of the US, or Indian, or EU, governments - ain't happening. (Unless there is consensus we should grant immunity to ICANN from national laws. All in favor of strengthening the IPR lobby in ICANN? : ( Or, all in favor of calling for a convention to explore what a future international oversight framework would look like? Some of us suggested that many years back, and got nowhere. B) When we get into CIR issues like the mechanics/administrative procedures for overseeing changes to the root-zone file, as I have pointed out right now US federal government/DOC/NTIA tries to do - nothing - other than make sure others follow fair administrative procedures. However, and there is a super-legit however here, in a world where approximately 80% or is it 90% of Internet users are outside the US, any tie back to just one government does not pass the smell test. I think we IGCers are unanimous on that. 2 possible conclusions: 1) Free ICANN from hypothetical future USDOC/NTIA interference as Ian Peter suggested. Which would also free ICANN from any other government mucking around at that level, in a hypothetical future. Fine by me. Though I worry ever so slightly that the latest example of ICANN's immaturity (oh yeah we forgot to put in place a conflict of interest policy for folks about to launch a new ICANN-created market) is not the last example of ICANN proving in practice to be not really as grown up as ICANN, like most 14 year olds, claims it is. Still, the proud parent USG will be more inclined to want to let the organization grow up and graduate from needing a babysitter, than accept other's suggestions that they would be better parents. Still we can imagine... 2) Developing some form of international oversight as Parminder suggests. Which, sorry to say, I have yet to hear a clear credible plan for anything workable that would not lead the volunteers of the net to wander off the job and recreate something else that looks just like the Internet but is not the Internet. Which would keep the government's of the world away from running the engine rooms of that not-Internet. As -not- documented, root zone operators and mirror server operators are all autonomous free agents and are not - save for certain exceptions like specific root zone operators that are part of the USG - beholden to the USG or any other government. So yes doing anything here, we could indeed imagine it getting done by governments of the world agreeing, in principle. But it is not so easy to imagine what changes might obtain the consent of the net. C) With regard to an OECD ICCP-like meeting forum for the whole world, rather than just the 15%? - of world government's that are full participants in OECD, that is an idea I am quite sympathetic too. Imho, just as G20 has become the main gathering of the mighty, and G7 mainly a few day photo op, it would be up to the BRICs + South Africa, Nigeria, and some Middle Eastern states to determine that they need something like the ICCP badly enough - to pay for it. Meaning, in the first instance this requires some number of the - excluded from OECD - government's to feel there is enough benefit to them of something like that getting going in the UN system, to promise to put up the $$ to fund it. Absent that, the government's already paying the costs of OECD's Parisian HQ are not likely to feel they can explain to their own citizens why something similar in the UN is also needed. Conclusions: 1) while us academics love the OECD's data collection and experts, industry elite + government leading policy edge schmooze-a-thons (I confess), and would love the UN to create another analagous thing, I suspect it will be - very - difficult to get that instituted in the UN system. UNDESA will claim they already do it; as will ITU; as will WIPO and UNCTAD. On finance and tax policy issues which OECD also deals with, WTO and IMF will say they got that covered. Therefore 2) This looks to be a heavy slog, even if it is one I agree is needed/helpful in principle and which the example of the ICCP can illustrate the benefits of. However, 3) ICCP at best pays its excellent staffers to write - policy background docs which encourages nations to harmonize policies and do things like - ensure information privacy and security standards are followed by public sector agencies. OECD is the penultimate talk shop with no formal power to do anything, including offer - oversight - of anything. Unless explicitly invited to comment and offer feedback by member governments. So...the ICCP2 could offer ongoing, periodic oversight of ICANN, and IGF, RIRs, W3C, etc - if invited. I can imagine those organizations welcoming a structured way to put themselves up occasionally for voluntary self-assessmemts and critiques by governments, aided and abetted by a new crack squad of (global IG savvy) ICCP2 staffers, with industry whispering more or less loudly but politely in the government's ear just as they do at ICCP meetings. Or, cough, governments and business could get out of the way and let the IGF belatedly begin to grow up and do more or less the same thing. However, ongoing oversight of one specific agency or function or non-profit is not an OECD strength and certainly not an ICCP capability. Periodic monitoring and feedback, however, that can be imagined. Meaning again, cough, oversight of those pesky CIRs is really beyond OECD in any kind of operationally meaningful way. And it would be difficult to imagine a UN-centered ICCP2 analogue that could obtain that authority and expertise. Which takes us back to 4) ICANN's GAC as the only government-inclusive game in town, with enough knowledge and expertise of what is going on in (most) of the various Internet engine rooms we care about. That then leaves the world's government's also without formal authority to dictate anything to ICANN, which Parminder you seem to be claiming is required for global legitimacy. Others may find - the consent of the net - and the open participatory processes of ICANN which would suck up every spare minute of every volunteer, worldwide, which it can persuade to help, as preferrable to a more traditional state-centric approach. Most any company, worldwide, and most civil society folks may consider it to be just fine that national governments do not enjoy their usual - hegemony - over the net. Since GAC is merely advisory, it is indeed frustrating for national governments to be in the position of - humbly offering ICANN's board advice it may or may not take. Of course various punitive actions can be taken and/or threatened, and carried out in one or another national jurisdiction. But not readily at global level. So in sum, I still see us as stuck in the muddy waters of an imperfect system which is however the only one around. And we have no clear path to go from a situation in which one nation's laws, at both state and federal level, provide the framework for ICANN to operate. But as many others have noted, what happens for real in ICANN day to day has very little direct connection to either the federal IRS tax code or California non-profit law. Saying but hey the US is the hegemon, and look how crazy the US Congress is; so therefore the USG should agree to let another state or group of states take over oversight...does not sound like a logical conclusion or high likelihood outcome either does it. Finally, aA WGIG2-like gathering of experts as Wolfgang has suggested, and/or Norbert's more open bottom-up Enhanced Cooperation Task Force - possibly - could move us ahead here. But I'm not holding my breath for either since critical mass of opinion in favor of any particular method for finding a way forward is not apparent. Now, like Milton, I am done with this dialog. At least until I hear from someone, anyone, with a way out of the fog. best, Lee ________________________________ From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] on behalf of Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro [salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 3:37 PM To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Riaz K Tayob Cc: parminder Subject: Re: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 10:24 PM, Riaz K Tayob > wrote: Parminder One can put is also differently... if it is just US law then it does have de facto global application... now if these proposals were to be take seriously... then how would ICANN deal with the issues at the edges... porn in Saudi, religious and political symbols in France, sacred issues in India, etc... most international regimes are adept (if oft inept) at dealing with diversity... do you even see a trace of this in ICANN (although it is improving) or in the discourse... In relation to the issues you raise, Article 19 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) already raises the three exceptions, national security, public morality and if provided for by law. I think there is some confusion with governance. ICANN is kind of like a phone book. Countries are sovereign and free to have a McDonalds in their country and if it is their preference not to create "beef-based" products in India or "pork based products in other countries just means that countries choose what they want in their own countries. Even with the case of Vinay Rai, the Editor of an Indian newspaper who went to the New Delhi courts to take Facebook and Google to take down certain sites which he demanded were in violation of India's national laws. If difference cannot be dealt with operationally in a sound way (i.e. deal with national sentiments, cultures, approaches, alternative conceptions of the good life, etc) then it remains an American imposition at least at the edges. Having participated in policy processes and commenting on them, I can say that they welcome input and diversity. How can one complain unless one participates? (where it does tend to count more than other issues).... And it is not just national or individualistic diversity one is talking about... it is also policy diversity... Participate in the Policy discussions and you will see the Policy diversity. I mean look at the IDNs and the policies being developed, is that not diversity enough? I riaz On 2012/09/11 12:49 PM, parminder wrote: Hi Lee, We live in a world that is made of territorially defined and bound jurisdictions. Plus, there is some international law/ jurisdiction, albeit rather weak. There are no doubts exceptions, whereby territorial jurisdictions are able to, in some way or the other, reach out to other parts of the world. (This mostly happens on the 'powerful gets his way' principle, which is not to be recommended.) Admittedly, there are more such instances in a more connected world today then ever before, but they still are 'exceptions'. The problem is that Milton and you are trying to propose a governance system out of these exceptions. No, it doesn't work that way. We cant work with exceptions, we have to work with the main system. And the main system is broken, for which please see below... On Monday 10 September 2012 02:11 AM, Lee W McKnight wrote: Hey Parminder, If Milton's signing off, I'll sign on for one more attempt. My aim is not to encourage lawsuits against the hegemon's proxy ICANN - but I feel them coming on anyway, with the .xxx one just the tip of the hegemon's melting iceberg. (I'm enjoying this 70s flashback, don't get to use the word hegemon twice in one sentence often these days : ) You do agree that there are many lawsuits coming ICANN's way. Are we prepared for the outcomes of these lawsuits, which are as inevitable. How long will the US executive be able to put persuasive pressure on the US judiciary to not do anything that may rock the boat. I dont think the US judiciary is that subservient, and, sooner or later, it will decisively apply the law. In an email on 27th Aug, responding to my specific poser, David Conrad developed the scenario that may follow an adverse decision in the .xxx case. It culminated in the 'possibility' of .xxx having to be removed from the root. Are we prepared for this eventuality. Would the legitimacy of the system not collapse right away! (I must mention here that David thought it wont). There could be other impacts of an adverse decision in the .xxx case; ICANN may be directed by the court to review all its policies and actions vis a vis whatever the court thinks needs to be done to ensure consistent application of US's anti-trust (or any other) law. ICANN will immediately *have* to do so.... Are you/ we prepared for this very plausible scenario? Responsible governance systems and its stakeholders do not just sit around and wait for such a 'very probable' eventuality to happen. What is our response/ preparation to it? Does this not suggest that the present system of oversight of, and jurisdiction application over, ICANN is broken? Your and Milton's response to it seems to be: it does not matter if ICANN has to do all the above things on directions of a US court; we will simply tell all the outraged/ protesting people from other countries that ICANN will also respond *exactly" in the same manner if a court from their countries (India, Ghana, Nepa, Indonesia, Brazil etc) were to find faults with ICANN and propose remedial measures. This will be a patently untrue statement. I can assure you that no one will buy it. So, I advice you, please be ready for some other response. As for your and Milton's claim that if ICANN is subject to international law, the corresponding immunities that it will get from national jurisdiction could be a problem. Yes, it could be a problem for USians, since at present ICANN is subject to their national law. It is not a such problem to people of other countries. On the other hand, it should be obvious that any international law will be framed in a manner that takes as much account of ICANN functions as possible. Even if specific legal provisions do not exist in some aspects, the international system is capable of delivering on basis of principles of natural justice and other such forms of jurisprudence. Thanks, but we can do without US law getting imposed on the whole world, which, to me, is what your and Milton's critique of 'any' international system/ jurisdiction is all about. parminder So here's my free legal counsel for you: anyone anywhere can play. Just as there was nothing to prevent Google or Yahoo, or earlier Compuserve being taken to court in France or Brazil, or Germany and Italy, and senior executives threatened, tried, sentenced and/or subject to arrest if they set foot in those countries - meaning even if they had no staff there, but just passed through say the Frankfurt airport, or stopped in Rome for a vacation - so too could ICANN staff be subject to arrest; and ICANN fined for example, should it not obey a court order in Pakistan or India or anywhere else. We can review the specific circumstances in the various cases I mentioned in passing if you want, but basically the message is as the Internet and Internet services pervades more deeply into all nation's daily lives, then we should not be surprised when ICANN is, eventually, challenged in various nation's courts. Most readily where the organization has an establishment, meaning staff as in Brussels and Australia. But even absent staff presence, I could roll out 100 hypothetical scenarios on how ICANN decisions could be challenged, in Pakistani or Indian, or Brunei's, really any nation's legal system. Just cuz it's a non-profit with a SoCal HQ does not mean the organization is exempt from - any - legal sanction, anywhere. Whether the balance of power over the administration of changes to the root zone file, and/or the creation of this or that new gtld, should be a matter of hundreds of national jurisdictions, or handled through some form of global collective action, is indeed the question. But while I am practicing law without a license here, as the saying goes in US domestic politics, at least I am making reality based statements. Every single thing ICANN does could be challenged in any national court. Winning a case, and/or explaining to a judge or jury why a case was brought, is of course never a sure thing. But the ability in principle of Indian courts to rule on cases in which Indian citizens, businesses, and/or government agencies claim injury, is not in any way impaired by the location of ICANN's HQ. ICANN, on the other hand, if established under international public or private law, could indeed gain various immunities, which its actions do not now enjoy. Milton's 100% right to say careful what we wish for here, since moving to a treaty or international convention as the source of ICANN's legal status, could just as easily make ICANN less responsive as more responsive to national jurisdictions, and individuals. ANY national jurisdiction. But that is a possibility and not a certainty, as it would depend on the specifics agreed to by nations signing onto that hypothetical treaty. If you don't believe me, just ask any practicing international (private) lawyer. I'm guessing her answer would be another question: how deep are your pockets? : ) But anyone with enough money to make the challenge to for example - any - gtld string, can follow ICANN procedures, or they can turn to their own national courts. Although those courts might find it annoying if they are dragged into the middle of an arcane dispute if remedies from within the ICANN system were not exhausted first. Unfortunately, like I said some time back, this whole dialogue has gotten - more or less nowhere - since apparently it is more fun to flash back to the 80s or hegemonic 70s than try to make sense of what should be done next, to align ICANN and other elements of Internet governance more closely with all of the global communities that are affected by those decisions. Since there has been no new or original suggestions made, then we do seem to be stuck in a time warp. A domestic US non-profit corporation, albeit one that strives mightily to - should I say sucker, or invite? : ) - people from around the world to do the heavy volunteer lifting to keep the global net up and operating, is the main game in the global Internet governance village, still. Seeing as apparently noone has a better idea, or has even concrete suggestions on how to get from here to there, there being a more globally equitable future, then yeah we are stuck. Bummer. Or maybe, I repeat again, this dialogue, while at times fun, really suggests it is time to get serious about Norbert's enhanced cooperation task force idea to figure a way forward. Since none of us are managing to do any better, absent that. imho. If we are counting on the ITU to do so in December....well I got a few virtual bridges for sale that are more solid. Better to give the (IGF-responsive) task force idea a shot, I suggest. Lee ________________________________ From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] on behalf of parminder [parminder at itforchange.net] Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 2:30 AM To: Milton L Mueller Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org Subject: Re: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs On Thursday 06 September 2012 10:42 PM, Milton L Mueller wrote: Parminder, your responses are degenerating beyond the point where it is worth responding. You are just getting desperate, Milton... You seem to be more interested in playing rhetorical games than in reaching agreement or improving understanding. Meaning, rather than simply agreeing with your most untenable proposition about parity of application of jurisdiction over ICANN between US and all other 191 states. I will point out the reasons I say these things and then suspend any further communication with you on these issues [Milton L Mueller] Any law from ANY jurisdiction constraining or dictating ICANN's action would have global effect, insofar as the global Internet relies on ICANN to administer the DNS. Milton, In face of clear facts to the contrary, you continue to claim that EU's, India's, Ghana's, all of 192 government's, jurisdictions have similar implication and impact on ICANN. I dont think I need to labour to disprove this patently absurd proposition. > Read my sentence, which is a conditional statement and says that if "any law from any jurisdiction" > could "constrain or dictate ICANN's action" it would have global effect. Your above statement - 'If' any law from any jurisdiction 'could' constrain or dictate ICANN's action, it would have global effect - says nothing at all other that that 'ICANN's actions have global effect', something which no one disputes. What other meaning does this sentence carry? What is under disputation is - laws from 'which' jurisdiction can constraint or dictate ICANN's 'global' actions? You say that laws from all 192 country jurisdictions have the 'same' (or at least similar) effect as from US's jurisdiction of 'constraining or dictating ICANN's global action'. This is what I call as a patently absurd proposition. But just to continue with the present discussion on the .xxx case, even if the ICM registry was * not* US based, the porn industry majors could/ would have brought the case against ICANN for instituting .xxx (since the registry would of course have serviced domain name demands from the US among others). ICANN would still be forced to defend itself in the case, and if it lost the case to annul or modify .xxx agreement. > I have asked you two questions related to this that you have steadfastly ducked: > 1) Do you think ICANN should be immune from antitrust? Yes or no. Of course ICANN should be subject to all kinds of public interest laws, as every entity should be - anti-trust, but also others, like those aimed at preserving and deepening public domain..... ( thus being prevented from giving off generic names like school, kid, beauty, cloud etc as private tlds). > 2) What stops such a case from being brought in the EU? ICANN has offices in Brussels, and its "service" or operations could be considered global, thus in the EU. First of all, you are cleverly skipping examples of India, Ghana and Bangladesh that I used, and only employing EU's case becuase ICANN has an office there... Your argument can be challenged simply on this ground, what about the other countries, especially the developing ones where ICANN chooses not to have an office. (Equity, Milton, equity, dont lose sight of this simple democratic value!) On the other hand, even if ICANN has a Brussels office, this fact does not put EU's jurisdiction over ICANN anywhere close to a similar level to US's. Apart from the fact that, if the push comes to shove, ICANN can simply close or shift Brussels office, offshore offices have often claimed lack of control over and accountability for parent bodies decisions vis a vis the jurisdictions in which they are located. (This is well known, but if you want examples, I can give them.) It does not take a political scientist to understand that the same is not true vis a vis the jurisdiction of any other of 192 countries. > You have not made any argument to explain why this is true. You have merely asserted it. No, I did make a clear argument using the scenario of an .xxx related case being brought in a Bangladesh court. Pl see my last email to which you respond. But you completely ignored that argument. > The US antitrust case is in fact no different from an antitrust case that might be brought in the EU, Completely wrong. For such a case brought in the EU, even if .xxx registry was based in EU, (1) ICANN is not obliged to defend the case (2) even if .xxx was to lose the case, it is the registry that will have to renege from the ICANN agreement, ICANN would have to do 'nothing'. However if the case is lost in the US, ICANN itself has to undertake certain actions- and also keep the judicial verdict in mind for future actions - something which is incongruent with ICANN's global governance status. That is the point. On the other hand, and I said this in the previous email as well, which you seem to read selectively, even if .xxx registry was not in the US, the porn industry could still have brought the case to a US court against ICANN- .xxx agreement, which is simply not possible vis a vis any other country jurisdiction. > If indeed ICANN were engaged in restraint of the domain name trade in conjunction with a EU-based > registry, the effect would be exactly the same in both cases. ICANN's status as a California Corp. > makes no difference here. see above snip And if it indeed is already subject to 192 jurisdiction, even efficiency, since you dont recognise issues of equity and democracy > You lost me here. I am the one in favor of democracy (e.g., election of ICANN board), you are the one in favor of control by states. I am glad to have an elected board if you can assemble the electorate in a manner that is equitous and then ensure fair polling. Please tell me your proposal. As for 'control by the states' I am happy to have any kind of direct democracy not only in IG space but also all other spaces of global governance (your view on this please). And till we have it, instead of one country dictating to the world, representational democracy will do (while all efforts at national and international level should be kept up to see that these purported 'representatives' are indeed democratically so). Imperfect democracy and representativity cannot be taken as an excuse for perpetuating hegemony and one-country dictatorship. with regards parminder ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From avri at ella.com Tue Sep 11 18:28:28 2012 From: avri at ella.com (Avri Doria) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 18:28:28 -0400 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B137626@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> References: <50332E85.8060106@itforchange.net> <50333A5C.7060908@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD21F9B4D@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <5038BD70.7080909@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD22082FD@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <503F0CA3.3020801@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220B5DE@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <504853B4.6080300@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220ED52@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <504C3775.10709@itforchange.net> <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B135E25@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> <504F092B.1090807@itforchange.net> <504F116B.1040400@gmail.com>, <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B137626@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: <0B42E5DB-BFF4-4599-A9A0-2B0A61957917@ella.com> On 11 Sep 2012, at 17:33, Lee W McKnight wrote: > 1) Free ICANN from hypothetical future USDOC/NTIA interference as Ian Peter suggested. Which would also free ICANN from any other government mucking around at that level, in a hypothetical future. Fine by me. Though I worry ever so slightly that the latest example of ICANN's immaturity (oh yeah we forgot to put in place a conflict of interest policy for folks about to launch a new ICANN-created market) is not the last example of ICANN proving in practice to be not really as grown up as ICANN, like most 14 year olds, claims it is. Still, the proud parent USG will be more inclined to want to let the organization grow up and graduate from needing a babysitter, than accept other's suggestions that they would be better parents. Still we can imagine... This is basically the option I opt for. First work to get ICANN to grow up and deserve to move out of the house. Then convince the parents and all the aunts and uncles that it is time for ICANN to move out on the NTIA house because they are gown-up and have a viable life plan. I bet that if this state is reached, NTIA would even help. Just a guess, but I'd bet. But first we ICANN folks (Staff, Board and Volunteers) gotta get a shit together and grow up. And start working on its life plan. I think progress is being made, but is it as good as we would like of course not. More time and participation is needed. I beleive it can happen. In fact I expect that it eventually will. I just have no idea how long eventually will take. avri -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ian.peter at ianpeter.com Tue Sep 11 18:32:40 2012 From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 08:32:40 +1000 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: <0B42E5DB-BFF4-4599-A9A0-2B0A61957917@ella.com> Message-ID: Glad to see these comments by Lee and Avri. Here is my original proposition I come back to my original position ­ and perhaps the only one where we might get some agreement and also even the possibility of some action. The authorisation role is completely unnecessary, whether carried out by USA or UN or whatever. Please do not transfer it to another body ­ just remove it. The authorisation is based on recommendations involving a set of very consultative and exhaustive procedures. Once the ICANN processes recommend a change after these consultations, let that be the final authorisation. I can perceive a situation where USA might actually accept that proposition, consistent with increasing independence of ICANN. I cant see a situation where they transfer their authorisation function to any other body. Ian Peter > From: Avri Doria > Reply-To: , Avri Doria > Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 18:28:28 -0400 > To: IGC > Subject: Re: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for > ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs > > > On 11 Sep 2012, at 17:33, Lee W McKnight wrote: > >> 1) Free ICANN from hypothetical future USDOC/NTIA interference as Ian Peter >> suggested. Which would also free ICANN from any other government mucking >> around at that level, in a hypothetical future. Fine by me. Though I worry >> ever so slightly that the latest example of ICANN's immaturity (oh yeah we >> forgot to put in place a conflict of interest policy for folks about to >> launch a new ICANN-created market) is not the last example of ICANN proving >> in practice to be not really as grown up as ICANN, like most 14 year olds, >> claims it is. Still, the proud parent USG will be more inclined to want to >> let the organization grow up and graduate from needing a babysitter, than >> accept other's suggestions that they would be better parents. Still we can >> imagine... > > > This is basically the option I opt for. > > First work to get ICANN to grow up and deserve to move out of the house. > > Then convince the parents and all the aunts and uncles that it is time for > ICANN to move out on the NTIA house because they are gown-up and have a viable > life plan. > > I bet that if this state is reached, NTIA would even help. Just a guess, but > I'd bet. > > But first we ICANN folks (Staff, Board and Volunteers) gotta get a shit > together and grow up. > And start working on its life plan. > > I think progress is being made, but is it as good as we would like of course > not. > More time and participation is needed. > > I beleive it can happen. > In fact I expect that it eventually will. > I just have no idea how long eventually will take. > > avri > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ocl at gih.com Tue Sep 11 19:23:30 2012 From: ocl at gih.com (Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 01:23:30 +0200 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <504FC7F2.8030201@gih.com> +1 It's all about maturity. Can a multi-stakeholder system become mature enough to *not* require a top-down oversight body? I'd like to believe that. Kindest regards, Olivier (my own views) On 12/09/2012 00:32, Ian Peter wrote: > Glad to see these comments by Lee and Avri. Here is my original proposition > > I come back to my original position ­ and perhaps the only one where we > might get some agreement and also even the possibility of some action. The > authorisation role is completely unnecessary, whether carried out by USA or > UN or whatever. Please do not transfer it to another body ­ just remove it. > The authorisation is based on recommendations involving a set of very > consultative and exhaustive procedures. Once the ICANN processes recommend a > change after these consultations, let that be the final authorisation. > > > I can perceive a situation where USA might actually accept that proposition, > consistent with increasing independence of ICANN. I cant see a situation > where they transfer their authorisation function to any other body. > > > Ian Peter > > >> From: Avri Doria >> Reply-To: , Avri Doria >> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 18:28:28 -0400 >> To: IGC >> Subject: Re: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for >> ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs >> >> >> On 11 Sep 2012, at 17:33, Lee W McKnight wrote: >> >>> 1) Free ICANN from hypothetical future USDOC/NTIA interference as Ian Peter >>> suggested. Which would also free ICANN from any other government mucking >>> around at that level, in a hypothetical future. Fine by me. Though I worry >>> ever so slightly that the latest example of ICANN's immaturity (oh yeah we >>> forgot to put in place a conflict of interest policy for folks about to >>> launch a new ICANN-created market) is not the last example of ICANN proving >>> in practice to be not really as grown up as ICANN, like most 14 year olds, >>> claims it is. Still, the proud parent USG will be more inclined to want to >>> let the organization grow up and graduate from needing a babysitter, than >>> accept other's suggestions that they would be better parents. Still we can >>> imagine... >> >> This is basically the option I opt for. >> >> First work to get ICANN to grow up and deserve to move out of the house. >> >> Then convince the parents and all the aunts and uncles that it is time for >> ICANN to move out on the NTIA house because they are gown-up and have a viable >> life plan. >> >> I bet that if this state is reached, NTIA would even help. Just a guess, but >> I'd bet. >> >> But first we ICANN folks (Staff, Board and Volunteers) gotta get a shit >> together and grow up. >> And start working on its life plan. >> >> I think progress is being made, but is it as good as we would like of course >> not. >> More time and participation is needed. >> >> I beleive it can happen. >> In fact I expect that it eventually will. >> I just have no idea how long eventually will take. >> >> avri >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD http://www.gih.com/ocl.html -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Tue Sep 11 20:50:41 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 12:50:41 +1200 Subject: [governance] FRIENDLY REMINDER Evaluating the IGC [Survey 1 of 2012] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear All, This is another friendly reminder that we are in the process of receiving feedback on whether the IGC is facilitating the objectives that are listed in the IGC Charter. Thank you to those who have sent in their feedback. For those who have yet to fill the Survey, please take the time to do so. It will be open for another 48 hours before the Survey is closed. Kind Regards, Sala On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 6:50 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear All, > > This is a friendly reminder that we will be closing the Survey soon and it > is important for you to have your say in assessing whether the IGC is > meeting its objectives under the Charter. > > This Survey will run till the 13th September, 2012. Thank you to those who > have filled in the Survey. For those that have yet to do so, please take > the time to fill it: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/IGCEvaluation > > Kind Regards, > Sala > > On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 10:55 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < > salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Dear All, >> >> This survey is designed to extract feedback from the IGC. It is designed >> to evaluate how the IGC is facilitating the Objectives under the >> Charter.There are 10 questions. The Survey will run from the 6th >> September, 2012 to the 13th September, 2012. >> >> You can access the Survey via >> https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/IGCEvaluation >> >> I encourage everyone to find time to complete this Survey. >> >> I would also like to acknowledge and thank Chaitanya Dhareshwar one of >> our new subscribers to the IGC from India for volunteering to put the >> questions into the Survey Monkey. >> >> Kind Regards >> >> -- >> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala >> P.O. Box 17862 >> Suva >> Fiji >> >> Twitter: @SalanietaT >> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro >> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Tue Sep 11 22:53:04 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 08:23:04 +0530 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: <504FC7F2.8030201@gih.com> References: <504FC7F2.8030201@gih.com> Message-ID: +1 on the maturity bit. Here we normally consider a 14 year old organization "mature" - but like Avri says > "But first we ICANN folks (Staff, Board and Volunteers) gotta get a shit > together and grow up. > *And start working on its life plan*." I feel, too, that ICANN should be able to take care of itself sufficiently not to need a babysitter. I think most would agree on this. But how do we do the 'working on it's life plan' bit? -C On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 4:53 AM, Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond wrote: > +1 > It's all about maturity. Can a multi-stakeholder system become mature > enough to *not* require a top-down oversight body? I'd like to believe > that. > > Kindest regards, > > Olivier > (my own views) > > > On 12/09/2012 00:32, Ian Peter wrote: > > Glad to see these comments by Lee and Avri. Here is my original > proposition > > > > I come back to my original position ­ and perhaps the only one where we > > might get some agreement and also even the possibility of some action. > The > > authorisation role is completely unnecessary, whether carried out by USA > or > > UN or whatever. Please do not transfer it to another body ­ just remove > it. > > The authorisation is based on recommendations involving a set of very > > consultative and exhaustive procedures. Once the ICANN processes > recommend a > > change after these consultations, let that be the final authorisation. > > > > > > I can perceive a situation where USA might actually accept that > proposition, > > consistent with increasing independence of ICANN. I cant see a situation > > where they transfer their authorisation function to any other body. > > > > > > Ian Peter > > > > > >> From: Avri Doria > >> Reply-To: , Avri Doria > >> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 18:28:28 -0400 > >> To: IGC > >> Subject: Re: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell > Trouble for > >> ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs > >> > >> > >> On 11 Sep 2012, at 17:33, Lee W McKnight wrote: > >> > >>> 1) Free ICANN from hypothetical future USDOC/NTIA interference as Ian > Peter > >>> suggested. Which would also free ICANN from any other government > mucking > >>> around at that level, in a hypothetical future. Fine by me. Though I > worry > >>> ever so slightly that the latest example of ICANN's immaturity (oh > yeah we > >>> forgot to put in place a conflict of interest policy for folks about to > >>> launch a new ICANN-created market) is not the last example of ICANN > proving > >>> in practice to be not really as grown up as ICANN, like most 14 year > olds, > >>> claims it is. Still, the proud parent USG will be more inclined to > want to > >>> let the organization grow up and graduate from needing a babysitter, > than > >>> accept other's suggestions that they would be better parents. Still we > can > >>> imagine... > >> > >> This is basically the option I opt for. > >> > >> First work to get ICANN to grow up and deserve to move out of the house. > >> > >> Then convince the parents and all the aunts and uncles that it is time > for > >> ICANN to move out on the NTIA house because they are gown-up and have a > viable > >> life plan. > >> > >> I bet that if this state is reached, NTIA would even help. Just a > guess, but > >> I'd bet. > >> > >> But first we ICANN folks (Staff, Board and Volunteers) gotta get a shit > >> together and grow up. > >> And start working on its life plan. > >> > >> I think progress is being made, but is it as good as we would like of > course > >> not. > >> More time and participation is needed. > >> > >> I beleive it can happen. > >> In fact I expect that it eventually will. > >> I just have no idea how long eventually will take. > >> > >> avri > >> > >> > >> > >> ____________________________________________________________ > >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org > >> To be removed from the list, visit: > >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > >> > >> For all other list information and functions, see: > >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ > >> > >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > > > > -- > Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD > http://www.gih.com/ocl.html > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From parminder at itforchange.net Tue Sep 11 23:52:17 2012 From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 09:22:17 +0530 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: <504F7F81.6020705@cis-india.org> References: <50332E85.8060106@itforchange.net> <50333A5C.7060908@itforchange.net> <504F7F81.6020705@cis-india.org> Message-ID: <505006F1.3020903@itforchange.net> On Tuesday 11 September 2012 11:44 PM, Pranesh Prakash wrote: > snip > > Which law would you like ICANN to be subject to? After all, given > that they are a brick-and-mortar organization, they will have to > subject themselves to one nation's law or another's. Which one should > it be, then? Pranesh, you work with WIPO which is a brick and mortar organisation which , in terms of its substantive work, is subject to no nation's jurisdiction. It is only subject to international law. In fact all UN organisations are brick and mortar organisations, arent they; they are physically located in one country or the other without their substantive activities being subject to the respective national law. Do I take from your framing of the above question that, therefore, you are fine for a global governance institution like ICANN to be subject to US's law and jurisdiction in terms of its substantive governance activities? parminder > > ~ Pranesh > -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From parminder at itforchange.net Wed Sep 12 00:34:27 2012 From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 10:04:27 +0530 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <505010D3.9020508@itforchange.net> Avri and Ian, Will weigh in with more responses to your and other's comments later on when I have a little more time, but just to say for the present that; Firstly, IANA function that US may or may not hand over to someone else, in one issue. Another one, the main one in the present thread, is, whether IANA function is voluntary abandoned or not by the US (your choice of what should happen), ICANN as a US non profit would remain subject to all kinds of US laws vis a vis all its activities and policies. As a part of the .xxx judgement for instance, the courts can ask ICANN to revise all its domain name policies to bring them in accordance with US anti trust and possibly other laws (say IP related), in 'such a such', manner. ICANN would have no option other than to do it right away. You will agree that with the .xxxx case already been taken up, and its basic tenability also been accepted by a court ruling, such an eventuality is quite possible. This issue is at quite a different level than that of who exercises IANA authority, which you address in your emails. What is your response to this particular, i'd say, imminent, problem? How is ICANN going to deal with it? With the .xxx case already in the court, and many more expected in the present round of new gtlds, should ICANN not already be ready for what is certainly going to happen sooner or later? Secondly, if some kind of immunity for ICANN from US's domestic law through some kind of international agreement is part of your response to the above, and I may be being presumptuous in this regard, please note that Milton and even Lee do not seem particularly sanguine about it; not just about the likelihood that it would happen, but even of its desirability. They seem to prefer that ICANN remains subject to US laws, to ensure that some kind of public interest control is kept over it. What is your position on this? I mention this because evidently, even leaving my and Riaz's position in this thread of discussion out, there is much less general agreement on the way to go ahead, that may appear on the surface. And the disagreement is not just on the time frames involved or the path to follow, but, and this is most significant to assert, also vis a vis the eventual desirable state of affairs. I understand that the mainstream view in the US, including but not just limited to the 'establishment', is closer to that of Milton/ Lee's above view. We know that EU also rejects the possibility of ICANN being subject to no kind of jurisdiction what so ever. These facts will have to be kept in mind. Regards, parminder On Wednesday 12 September 2012 04:02 AM, Ian Peter wrote: > Glad to see these comments by Lee and Avri. Here is my original proposition > > I come back to my original position ­ and perhaps the only one where we > might get some agreement and also even the possibility of some action. The > authorisation role is completely unnecessary, whether carried out by USA or > UN or whatever. Please do not transfer it to another body ­ just remove it. > The authorisation is based on recommendations involving a set of very > consultative and exhaustive procedures. Once the ICANN processes recommend a > change after these consultations, let that be the final authorisation. > > > I can perceive a situation where USA might actually accept that proposition, > consistent with increasing independence of ICANN. I cant see a situation > where they transfer their authorisation function to any other body. > > > Ian Peter > > >> From: Avri Doria >> Reply-To: , Avri Doria >> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 18:28:28 -0400 >> To: IGC >> Subject: Re: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for >> ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs >> >> >> On 11 Sep 2012, at 17:33, Lee W McKnight wrote: >> >>> 1) Free ICANN from hypothetical future USDOC/NTIA interference as Ian Peter >>> suggested. Which would also free ICANN from any other government mucking >>> around at that level, in a hypothetical future. Fine by me. Though I worry >>> ever so slightly that the latest example of ICANN's immaturity (oh yeah we >>> forgot to put in place a conflict of interest policy for folks about to >>> launch a new ICANN-created market) is not the last example of ICANN proving >>> in practice to be not really as grown up as ICANN, like most 14 year olds, >>> claims it is. Still, the proud parent USG will be more inclined to want to >>> let the organization grow up and graduate from needing a babysitter, than >>> accept other's suggestions that they would be better parents. Still we can >>> imagine... >> >> This is basically the option I opt for. >> >> First work to get ICANN to grow up and deserve to move out of the house. >> >> Then convince the parents and all the aunts and uncles that it is time for >> ICANN to move out on the NTIA house because they are gown-up and have a viable >> life plan. >> >> I bet that if this state is reached, NTIA would even help. Just a guess, but >> I'd bet. >> >> But first we ICANN folks (Staff, Board and Volunteers) gotta get a shit >> together and grow up. >> And start working on its life plan. >> >> I think progress is being made, but is it as good as we would like of course >> not. >> More time and participation is needed. >> >> I beleive it can happen. >> In fact I expect that it eventually will. >> I just have no idea how long eventually will take. >> >> avri >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ian.peter at ianpeter.com Wed Sep 12 01:01:29 2012 From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 15:01:29 +1000 Subject: [governance] Meanwhile back at the ranch - Was Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: <505010D3.9020508@itforchange.net> Message-ID: Hi Parminder, I would certainly like to see ICANN as an international organisation, and I think from previous posts Avri would too. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, 2012 may well go down in history as the year that the internet collapse began ­ and it’s not just the USA responsible. Everywhere it seems under threat from unilateral government decisions, corporate takedowns at the behest of the powerful rather than according to any clear policy for such actions, security issues, the replacement of internet protocols with dedicated apps in the mobile sector, and a host of other cybersecurity, cybercrime, copyright and patent decisions. What we are seeing is a swathe of unilateral government decisions and corporate decisions without reference to common law, common sense, and common interest. The list goes on and on. South Korea and USA (and others) delivering different court judgments on Apple/Samsung patents, websites being taken down by a host of governments without notice or explanation and then being reinstated without charges being laid, Paypal and others suspending payments to Wikileaks, SOPA, PIPA, user data being hacked and released in response to government measures aimed at personal data retention without warrant or court order, and political censorship in many countries including countries who would normally speak out against this. End to end, it’s a mess. No that’s nothing to do with ICANN or IETF. And probably nothing to do with Internet Governance Forum either which, if it discusses any of these issues in detail, will probably only do so in the corridors. But it sure has a lot to do with Internet governance, and Internet governance is in a mess. Sorry to change the topic. Ian Peter From: parminder Reply-To: , parminder Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 10:04:27 +0530 To: Subject: Re: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs Avri and Ian, Will weigh in with more responses to your and other's comments later on when I have a little more time, but just to say for the present that; Firstly, IANA function that US may or may not hand over to someone else, in one issue. Another one, the main one in the present thread, is, whether IANA function is voluntary abandoned or not by the US (your choice of what should happen), ICANN as a US non profit would remain subject to all kinds of US laws vis a vis all its activities and policies. As a part of the .xxx judgement for instance, the courts can ask ICANN to revise all its domain name policies to bring them in accordance with US anti trust and possibly other laws (say IP related), in 'such a such', manner. ICANN would have no option other than to do it right away. You will agree that with the .xxxx case already been taken up, and its basic tenability also been accepted by a court ruling, such an eventuality is quite possible. This issue is at quite a different level than that of who exercises IANA authority, which you address in your emails. What is your response to this particular, i'd say, imminent, problem? How is ICANN going to deal with it? With the .xxx case already in the court, and many more expected in the present round of new gtlds, should ICANN not already be ready for what is certainly going to happen sooner or later? Secondly, if some kind of immunity for ICANN from US's domestic law through some kind of international agreement is part of your response to the above, and I may be being presumptuous in this regard, please note that Milton and even Lee do not seem particularly sanguine about it; not just about the likelihood that it would happen, but even of its desirability. They seem to prefer that ICANN remains subject to US laws, to ensure that some kind of public interest control is kept over it. What is your position on this? I mention this because evidently, even leaving my and Riaz's position in this thread of discussion out, there is much less general agreement on the way to go ahead, that may appear on the surface. And the disagreement is not just on the time frames involved or the path to follow, but, and this is most significant to assert, also vis a vis the eventual desirable state of affairs. I understand that the mainstream view in the US, including but not just limited to the 'establishment', is closer to that of Milton/ Lee's above view. We know that EU also rejects the possibility of ICANN being subject to no kind of jurisdiction what so ever. These facts will have to be kept in mind. Regards, parminder On Wednesday 12 September 2012 04:02 AM, Ian Peter wrote: > > Glad to see these comments by Lee and Avri. Here is my original proposition > > I come back to my original position ­ and perhaps the only one where we > might get some agreement and also even the possibility of some action. The > authorisation role is completely unnecessary, whether carried out by USA or > UN or whatever. Please do not transfer it to another body ­ just remove it. > The authorisation is based on recommendations involving a set of very > consultative and exhaustive procedures. Once the ICANN processes recommend a > change after these consultations, let that be the final authorisation. > > > I can perceive a situation where USA might actually accept that proposition, > consistent with increasing independence of ICANN. I cant see a situation > where they transfer their authorisation function to any other body. > > > Ian Peter > > > >> >> From: Avri Doria >> Reply-To: >> , Avri Doria >> >> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 18:28:28 -0400 >> To: IGC >> >> Subject: Re: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for >> ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs >> >> >> On 11 Sep 2012, at 17:33, Lee W McKnight wrote: >> >> >>> >>> 1) Free ICANN from hypothetical future USDOC/NTIA interference as Ian Peter >>> suggested. Which would also free ICANN from any other government mucking >>> around at that level, in a hypothetical future. Fine by me. Though I worry >>> ever so slightly that the latest example of ICANN's immaturity (oh yeah we >>> forgot to put in place a conflict of interest policy for folks about to >>> launch a new ICANN-created market) is not the last example of ICANN proving >>> in practice to be not really as grown up as ICANN, like most 14 year olds, >>> claims it is. Still, the proud parent USG will be more inclined to want to >>> let the organization grow up and graduate from needing a babysitter, than >>> accept other's suggestions that they would be better parents. Still we can >>> imagine... >>> >> >> >> >> This is basically the option I opt for. >> >> First work to get ICANN to grow up and deserve to move out of the house. >> >> Then convince the parents and all the aunts and uncles that it is time for >> ICANN to move out on the NTIA house because they are gown-up and have a >> viable >> life plan. >> >> I bet that if this state is reached, NTIA would even help. Just a guess, but >> I'd bet. >> >> But first we ICANN folks (Staff, Board and Volunteers) gotta get a shit >> together and grow up. >> And start working on its life plan. >> >> I think progress is being made, but is it as good as we would like of course >> not. >> More time and participation is needed. >> >> I beleive it can happen. >> In fact I expect that it eventually will. >> I just have no idea how long eventually will take. >> >> avri >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From daniel at digsys.bg Wed Sep 12 03:14:36 2012 From: daniel at digsys.bg (Daniel Kalchev) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 10:14:36 +0300 Subject: [governance] Meanwhile back at the ranch - Was Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <857EA828-A697-4E65-9DD9-EC0CAC3E0C3D@digsys.bg> On 12.09.2012, at 08:01, Ian Peter wrote: > End to end, it’s a mess. No that’s nothing to do with ICANN or IETF. Let's not forget Internet was designed to be this way. It is not supposed to have any centralised governance or control structure. Many will try, as they have always done. Anything is a mess for those who try to define it in the wrong terms. Daniel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ian.peter at ianpeter.com Wed Sep 12 03:20:54 2012 From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 17:20:54 +1000 Subject: [governance] Meanwhile back at the ranch - Was Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: <857EA828-A697-4E65-9DD9-EC0CAC3E0C3D@digsys.bg> Message-ID: The problem is, Daniel, that because we havent evolved enough to have global policies, guidelines and/or structures to deal with significant issues, we are experiencing significant interference from many governments, and also from large corporations, operating unilaterally to interfere with the free flow of information without having to justify their actions or co-ordinate their actions with other affected parties. No, the Internet was not designed to be like that. Ian Peter From: Daniel Kalchev Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 10:14:36 +0300 To: "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" , Ian Peter Cc: "" , parminder Subject: Re: [governance] Meanwhile back at the ranch - Was Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs On 12.09.2012, at 08:01, Ian Peter wrote: > End to end, it¹s a mess. No that¹s nothing to do with ICANN or IETF. Let's not forget Internet was designed to be this way. It is not supposed to have any centralised governance or control structure. Many will try, as they have always done. Anything is a mess for those who try to define it in the wrong terms. Daniel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From dogwallah at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 06:19:52 2012 From: dogwallah at gmail.com (McTim) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 06:19:52 -0400 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: <505010D3.9020508@itforchange.net> References: <505010D3.9020508@itforchange.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 12:34 AM, parminder wrote: > > Avri and Ian, > > Will weigh in with more responses to your and other's comments later on when > I have a little more time, but just to say for the present that; > > Firstly, IANA function that US may or may not hand over to someone else, in > one issue. Another one, the main one in the present thread, is, whether IANA > function is voluntary abandoned or not by the US (your choice of what should > happen), ICANN as a US non profit would remain subject to all kinds of US > laws vis a vis all its activities and policies. As a part of the .xxx > judgement for instance, the courts can ask ICANN to revise all its domain > name policies to bring them in accordance with US anti trust and possibly > other laws (say IP related), in 'such a such', manner. ICANN would have no > option other than to do it right away. Not true, they would certainly appeal if they lost (which they won't). The new gTLD fee was high, mostly because the US is a litigious place. They are well capable of defending themselves. -- Cheers, McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From parminder at itforchange.net Wed Sep 12 06:45:30 2012 From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 16:15:30 +0530 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: References: <505010D3.9020508@itforchange.net> Message-ID: <505067CA.8060609@itforchange.net> On Wednesday 12 September 2012 03:49 PM, McTim wrote: > Not true, they would certainly appeal if they lost (which they won't). > The new gTLD fee was high, mostly because the US is a litigious place. > They are well capable of defending themselves. Yes, appeal to another US court(s), all of which will apply the relevant US law... And what happens if ICANN loses the appeal(s). For the purpose of my present argument it is bad enough even if it loses partly, as in, say, the courts holds that .xxx can stay but the registry agreement must be amended in such and such manner. .. You say confidently, they wont lose.... But a governance system cannot stand on pre judging the outcomes of all the cases that will ever come against it as necessarily in its favour, can it, vis a vis a jurisdiction that it is clearly and fully subject to. And not being ready at all for the scenario of what happens if they lose even one case, even partly, whereby they are forced to do something on a US court's order vis a vis their global governance role..... That is the point. parminder -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From daniel at digsys.bg Wed Sep 12 06:58:05 2012 From: daniel at digsys.bg (Daniel Kalchev) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 13:58:05 +0300 Subject: [governance] Meanwhile back at the ranch - Was Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01CFFDF4-9164-4786-B9C4-784B54D87BC6@digsys.bg> On Sep 12, 2012, at 10:20 AM, Ian Peter wrote: > The problem is, Daniel, that because we havent evolved enough to have global policies, guidelines and/or structures to deal with significant issues, we are experiencing significant interference from many governments, and also from large corporations, operating unilaterally to interfere with the free flow of information without having to justify their actions or co-ordinate their actions with other affected parties. > This is all correct. However my personal opinion is that global consensus and therefore global policy is not achievable, because such is human nature. > No, the Internet was not designed to be like that. Apparently, we look at it from different perspective. Internet is certainly designed to operate without any centralised control system. Any part of Internet can function independently from the other parts and all they can function independently from any external party. This clashes with the "government" concept, or even with the "corporate" concept that everything should be centrally managed and policed. The Internet architecture however matches very closely how human society works (i.e. peer pressure). If we narrow our discussion to DNS only, it seems centralised. It does seem centralised, because most players prefer it this way (people are lazy). However, there are many players on Internet, that don't buy the centralised DNS concept and have for decades operated around it. There are also, other name resolution technologies in use in Internet, that do not use DNS (partially or at all). So, even DNS on Internet is not centralised, strictly speaking. The "problem" of "governments" (of any kind, not only national) with Internet is that this beast simply cannot be framed to their model. On the other side, Internet can accommodate any "government" system ... but that happens within Internet, integrated together with other governments and behaving, not "over" it. I also understand you read my comment in the sense "Internet means anarchy". It doesn't. It's simply the next history wave of returning to normal human interaction model. No doubt, some day, some "bright" mind, perhaps the next Emperor will figure out how to take over Internet --- or so he and his subjects will think for a while. Since I do repeat this opinion form time to time, you might ask, what I think of "Internet Governance". Well, that would depend of what you define by "Governance" here. If it is to build an global control structure of any kind, I will always call it waste of time and resources. If it is to educate those who think the world depends on their wishes (almost any human being falls here), then I am all for it -- people simply have no clue what Internet is and it will be more beneficial for everybody if they learn what they can't do to/with Internet. That will result in much less resources and time wasted. I do remember the statements from several representatives from Africa, during the IGF in Athens: "For the money you all spend here, you could rather provide stable electricity to one of our countries, and then we can talk about Internet" (I know, that's not enough, of course) Daniel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From nb at bollow.ch Wed Sep 12 08:58:05 2012 From: nb at bollow.ch (Norbert Bollow) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 14:58:05 +0200 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: References: <505010D3.9020508@itforchange.net> Message-ID: <20120912145805.043434a3@quill.bollow.ch> McTim wrote: > The new gTLD fee was high, mostly because the US is a litigious > place. So, if ICANN were based in a country with a less litigious culture, it would be more feasible for organizations that don't have huge amounts of financial capital, including organizations in developing countries, to establish a TLD? Greetings, Norbert -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 09:09:52 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (riaz.tayob at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 16:09:52 +0300 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B137626@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> References: <50332E85.8060106@itforchange.net> <50333A5C.7060908@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD21F9B4D@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <5038BD70.7080909@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD22082FD@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <503F0CA3.3020801@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220B5DE@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <504853B4.6080300@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220ED52@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <504C3775.10709@itforchange.net> <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B135E25@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> <504F092B.1090807@itforchange.net> <504F116B.1040400@gmail.com> <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B137626@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: <187CCEAF-33B1-4983-813F-7E374F334A71@gmail.com> Thanks for this effort. Perhaps to add to the synopsis and opinions expressed, there is one implicit angle that is not included would be. That the positions taken by par minder and other transformers is that they have already included accommodation to these concerns. Where issues of substance cannot be adressed process solutions may be competent. Here we could consider hosting discussions (as shaped by these interactions) that are chaired sensibly so that these matters can get a hearing. That I think is challenge enough, and I hope we can make this modest advance that in light of past experience would be monumental. And here this is one of the bones of contention with reformers... Because they suffer from either or both 1 unwilling to entertain this difference, 2 do not see this even capable of discussion in these fora. With these modest aims, given there has Been some discussion, the terrain is largely mapped... Let's see what can happen, even if substance wise it is distant to a common position... ...,... On 12 Sep 2012, at 12:33 AM, Lee W McKnight wrote: > Hi again, > > I will try one last time to assist moving the dialog along. > > A) By now it should be clear that when we talk about matters of non-profit law, it is a state-level matter in the US although it also ties into federal law for an organization wishing to avoid national income taxes. As Milton and I have pointed out, we can all complain about things Californian including their rather dysfunctional state government; but California non-profit law is pretty benign and compares reasonably well with most others. > 2 Conclusions: 1) We can reincorporate ICANN somewhere else but to get away from California state law for non-profits is not a great reason for what would be a big effort. 2) Some may prefer Indian or European or Brazilian or whomever's law for non-profits but this is really not going to work as a rallying cry for a dramatic change in ICANN. 3) As Sala and otehrs have pointed out, getting away from the extraterritorial arm of the US, or Indian, or EU, governments - ain't happening. (Unless there is consensus we should grant immunity to ICANN from national laws. All in favor of strengthening the IPR lobby in ICANN? : ( Or, all in favor of calling for a convention to explore what a future international oversight framework would look like? Some of us suggested that many years back, and got nowhere. > > B) When we get into CIR issues like the mechanics/administrative procedures for overseeing changes to the root-zone file, as I have pointed out right now US federal government/DOC/NTIA tries to do - nothing - other than make sure others follow fair administrative procedures. However, and there is a super-legit however here, in a world where approximately 80% or is it 90% of Internet users are outside the US, any tie back to just one government does not pass the smell test. I think we IGCers are unanimous on that. > > 2 possible conclusions: > > 1) Free ICANN from hypothetical future USDOC/NTIA interference as Ian Peter suggested. Which would also free ICANN from any other government mucking around at that level, in a hypothetical future. Fine by me. Though I worry ever so slightly that the latest example of ICANN's immaturity (oh yeah we forgot to put in place a conflict of interest policy for folks about to launch a new ICANN-created market) is not the last example of ICANN proving in practice to be not really as grown up as ICANN, like most 14 year olds, claims it is. Still, the proud parent USG will be more inclined to want to let the organization grow up and graduate from needing a babysitter, than accept other's suggestions that they would be better parents. Still we can imagine... > > 2) Developing some form of international oversight as Parminder suggests. Which, sorry to say, I have yet to hear a clear credible plan for anything workable that would not lead the volunteers of the net to wander off the job and recreate something else that looks just like the Internet but is not the Internet. Which would keep the government's of the world away from running the engine rooms of that not-Internet. As -not- documented, root zone operators and mirror server operators are all autonomous free agents and are not - save for certain exceptions like specific root zone operators that are part of the USG - beholden to the USG or any other government. So yes doing anything here, we could indeed imagine it getting done by governments of the world agreeing, in principle. But it is not so easy to imagine what changes might obtain the consent of the net. > > C) With regard to an OECD ICCP-like meeting forum for the whole world, rather than just the 15%? - of world government's that are full participants in OECD, that is an idea I am quite sympathetic too. Imho, just as G20 has become the main gathering of the mighty, and G7 mainly a few day photo op, it would be up to the BRICs + South Africa, Nigeria, and some Middle Eastern states to determine that they need something like the ICCP badly enough - to pay for it. > > Meaning, in the first instance this requires some number of the - excluded from OECD - government's to feel there is enough benefit to them of something like that getting going in the UN system, to promise to put up the $$ to fund it. Absent that, the government's already paying the costs of OECD's Parisian HQ are not likely to feel they can explain to their own citizens why something similar in the UN is also needed. > > Conclusions: 1) while us academics love the OECD's data collection and experts, industry elite + government leading policy edge schmooze-a-thons (I confess), and would love the UN to create another analagous thing, I suspect it will be - very - difficult to get that instituted in the UN system. UNDESA will claim they already do it; as will ITU; as will WIPO and UNCTAD. On finance and tax policy issues which OECD also deals with, WTO and IMF will say they got that covered. Therefore 2) This looks to be a heavy slog, even if it is one I agree is needed/helpful in principle and which the example of the ICCP can illustrate the benefits of. However, 3) ICCP at best pays its excellent staffers to write - policy background docs which encourages nations to harmonize policies and do things like - ensure information privacy and security standards are followed by public sector agencies. OECD is the penultimate talk shop with no formal power to do anything, including offer - oversight - of anything. Unless explicitly invited to comment and offer feedback by member governments. So...the ICCP2 could offer ongoing, periodic oversight of ICANN, and IGF, RIRs, W3C, etc - if invited. I can imagine those organizations welcoming a structured way to put themselves up occasionally for voluntary self-assessmemts and critiques by governments, aided and abetted by a new crack squad of (global IG savvy) ICCP2 staffers, with industry whispering more or less loudly but politely in the government's ear just as they do at ICCP meetings. > > Or, cough, governments and business could get out of the way and let the IGF belatedly begin to grow up and do more or less the same thing. > However, ongoing oversight of one specific agency or function or non-profit is not an OECD strength and certainly not an ICCP capability. Periodic monitoring and feedback, however, that can be imagined. > > Meaning again, cough, oversight of those pesky CIRs is really beyond OECD in any kind of operationally meaningful way. And it would be difficult to imagine a UN-centered ICCP2 analogue that could obtain that authority and expertise. > > Which takes us back to 4) ICANN's GAC as the only government-inclusive game in town, with enough knowledge and expertise of what is going on in (most) of the various Internet engine rooms we care about. That then leaves the world's government's also without formal authority to dictate anything to ICANN, which Parminder you seem to be claiming is required for global legitimacy. > > Others may find - the consent of the net - and the open participatory processes of ICANN which would suck up every spare minute of every volunteer, worldwide, which it can persuade to help, as preferrable to a more traditional state-centric approach. Most any company, worldwide, and most civil society folks may consider it to be just fine that national governments do not enjoy their usual - hegemony - over the net. Since GAC is merely advisory, it is indeed frustrating for national governments to be in the position of - humbly offering ICANN's board advice it may or may not take. Of course various punitive actions can be taken and/or threatened, and carried out in one or another national jurisdiction. But not readily at global level. > > So in sum, I still see us as stuck in the muddy waters of an imperfect system which is however the only one around. And we have no clear path to go from a situation in which one nation's laws, at both state and federal level, provide the framework for ICANN to operate. But as many others have noted, what happens for real in ICANN day to day has very little direct connection to either the federal IRS tax code or California non-profit law. Saying but hey the US is the hegemon, and look how crazy the US Congress is; so therefore the USG should agree to let another state or group of states take over oversight...does not sound like a logical conclusion or high likelihood outcome either does it. > > Finally, aA WGIG2-like gathering of experts as Wolfgang has suggested, and/or Norbert's more open bottom-up Enhanced Cooperation Task Force - possibly - could move us ahead here. But I'm not holding my breath for either since critical mass of opinion in favor of any particular method for finding a way forward is not apparent. > > Now, like Milton, I am done with this dialog. At least until I hear from someone, anyone, with a way out of the fog. > > best, > > Lee > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] on behalf of Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro [salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 3:37 PM > To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Riaz K Tayob > Cc: parminder > Subject: Re: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs > > > > On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 10:24 PM, Riaz K Tayob wrote: > Parminder > > One can put is also differently... if it is just US law then it does have de facto global application... now if these proposals were to be take seriously... then how would ICANN deal with the issues at the edges... porn in Saudi, religious and political symbols in France, sacred issues in India, etc... most international regimes are adept (if oft inept) at dealing with diversity... do you even see a trace of this in ICANN (although it is improving) or in the discourse... > > In relation to the issues you raise, Article 19 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) already raises the three exceptions, national security, public morality and if provided for by law. I think there is some confusion with governance. ICANN is kind of like a phone book. Countries are sovereign and free to have a McDonalds in their country and if it is their preference not to create "beef-based" products in India or "pork based products in other countries just means that countries choose what they want in their own countries. Even with the case of Vinay Rai, the Editor of an Indian newspaper who went to the New Delhi courts to take Facebook and Google to take down certain sites which he demanded were in violation of India's national laws. > > > If difference cannot be dealt with operationally in a sound way (i.e. deal with national sentiments, cultures, approaches, alternative conceptions of the good life, etc) then it remains an American imposition at least at the edges. > > Having participated in policy processes and commenting on them, I can say that they welcome input and diversity. How can one complain unless one participates? > > (where it does tend to count more than other issues).... And it is not just national or individualistic diversity one is talking about... it is also policy diversity... > > Participate in the Policy discussions and you will see the Policy diversity. I mean look at the IDNs and the policies being developed, is that not diversity enough? > > I > > riaz > > > > On 2012/09/11 12:49 PM, parminder wrote: >> >> >> Hi Lee, >> >> We live in a world that is made of territorially defined and bound jurisdictions. Plus, there is some international law/ jurisdiction, albeit rather weak. There are no doubts exceptions, whereby territorial jurisdictions are able to, in some way or the other, reach out to other parts of the world. (This mostly happens on the 'powerful gets his way' principle, which is not to be recommended.) Admittedly, there are more such instances in a more connected world today then ever before, but they still are 'exceptions'. The problem is that Milton and you are trying to propose a governance system out of these exceptions. No, it doesn't work that way. We cant work with exceptions, we have to work with the main system. And the main system is broken, for which please see below... >> >> >> On Monday 10 September 2012 02:11 AM, Lee W McKnight wrote: >>> Hey Parminder, >>> >>> If Milton's signing off, I'll sign on for one more attempt. >>> >>> My aim is not to encourage lawsuits against the hegemon's proxy ICANN - but I feel them coming on anyway, with the .xxx one just the tip of the hegemon's melting iceberg. (I'm enjoying this 70s flashback, don't get to use the word hegemon twice in one sentence often these days : ) >> >> You do agree that there are many lawsuits coming ICANN's way. Are we prepared for the outcomes of these lawsuits, which are as inevitable. How long will the US executive be able to put persuasive pressure on the US judiciary to not do anything that may rock the boat. I dont think the US judiciary is that subservient, and, sooner or later, it will decisively apply the law. In an email on 27th Aug, responding to my specific poser, David Conrad developed the scenario that may follow an adverse decision in the .xxx case. It culminated in the 'possibility' of .xxx having to be removed from the root. Are we -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From dogwallah at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 09:19:23 2012 From: dogwallah at gmail.com (McTim) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 09:19:23 -0400 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: <20120912145805.043434a3@quill.bollow.ch> References: <505010D3.9020508@itforchange.net> <20120912145805.043434a3@quill.bollow.ch> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 8:58 AM, Norbert Bollow wrote: > McTim wrote: > >> The new gTLD fee was high, mostly because the US is a litigious >> place. > > So, if ICANN were based in a country with a less litigious culture, it > would be would have been, perhaps. -- Cheers, McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 09:23:26 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (riaz.tayob at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 16:23:26 +0300 Subject: [governance] Meanwhile back at the ranch - Was Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: <01CFFDF4-9164-4786-B9C4-784B54D87BC6@digsys.bg> References: <01CFFDF4-9164-4786-B9C4-784B54D87BC6@digsys.bg> Message-ID: There are a number of issues with kalchevs position from my point of view. 1. No global consensus is passed off as a pure case when as far as cir goes the is an imperfect case of de facto control. 2. Saying there is no global consensus possibility unfairness the reality of choice for us seeking change... And hides the fact that certain kinds of agreements are possible... Wipo treaties, upcoming top, nafta, etc... So while the opinion of anti-multilateralism (or even any form of cooperation) may be valid, the arguments used o support this are not... 3. I wonder what you would have made of the techie single rooters arguments in this context historically... ...,... On 12 Sep 2012, at 1:58 PM, Daniel Kalchev wrote: > > On Sep 12, 2012, at 10:20 AM, Ian Peter wrote: > >> The problem is, Daniel, that because we havent evolved enough to have global policies, guidelines and/or structures to deal with significant issues, we are experiencing significant interference from many governments, and also from large corporations, operating unilaterally to interfere with the free flow of information without having to justify their actions or co-ordinate their actions with other affected parties. >> > > This is all correct. However my personal opinion is that global consensus and therefore global policy is not achievable, because such is human nature. > > >> No, the Internet was not designed to be like that. > > Apparently, we look at it from different perspective. Internet is certainly designed to operate without any centralised control system. Any part of Internet can function independently from the other parts and all they can function independently from any external party. This clashes with the "government" concept, or even with the "corporate" concept that everything should be centrally managed and policed. The Internet architecture however matches very closely how human society works (i.e. peer pressure). > > If we narrow our discussion to DNS only, it seems centralised. It does seem centralised, because most players prefer it this way (people are lazy). However, there are many players on Internet, that don't buy the centralised DNS concept and have for decades operated around it. There are also, other name resolution technologies in use in Internet, that do not use DNS (partially or at all). So, even DNS on Internet is not centralised, strictly speaking. > > The "problem" of "governments" (of any kind, not only national) with Internet is that this beast simply cannot be framed to their model. On the other side, Internet can accommodate any "government" system ... but that happens within Internet, integrated together with other governments and behaving, not "over" it. > > I also understand you read my comment in the sense "Internet means anarchy". It doesn't. It's simply the next history wave of returning to normal human interaction model. No doubt, some day, some "bright" mind, perhaps the next Emperor will figure out how to take over Internet --- or so he and his subjects will think for a while. > > Since I do repeat this opinion form time to time, you might ask, what I think of "Internet Governance". Well, that would depend of what you define by "Governance" here. If it is to build an global control structure of any kind, I will always call it waste of time and resources. If it is to educate those who think the world depends on their wishes (almost any human being falls here), then I am all for it -- people simply have no clue what Internet is and it will be more beneficial for everybody if they learn what they can't do to/with Internet. That will result in much less resources and time wasted. I do remember the statements from several representatives from Africa, during the IGF in Athens: "For the money you all spend here, you could rather provide stable electricity to one of our countries, and then we can talk about Internet" (I know, that's not enough, of course) > > Daniel > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From dogwallah at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 09:23:35 2012 From: dogwallah at gmail.com (McTim) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 09:23:35 -0400 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: <505067CA.8060609@itforchange.net> References: <505010D3.9020508@itforchange.net> <505067CA.8060609@itforchange.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 6:45 AM, parminder wrote: > > On Wednesday 12 September 2012 03:49 PM, McTim wrote: >> >> Not true, they would certainly appeal if they lost (which they won't). The >> new gTLD fee was high, mostly because the US is a litigious place. They are >> well capable of defending themselves. > > > Yes, appeal to another US court(s), all of which will apply the relevant US > law... And what happens if ICANN loses the appeal(s). For the purpose of my > present argument it is bad enough even if it loses partly, as in, say, the > courts holds that .xxx can stay but the registry agreement must be amended > in such and such manner. > > .. You say confidently, they wont lose.... But a governance system cannot > stand on pre judging the outcomes of all the cases that will ever come > against it as necessarily in its favour, can it, vis a vis a jurisdiction > that it is clearly and fully subject to. And not being ready at all for the > scenario of what happens if they lose even one case, even partly, whereby > they are forced to do something on a US court's order vis a vis their global > governance role..... > > That is the point. then there is only one solution. ICANN should use their new gTLD cash to buy a private island (I suggest a tropical location), declare sovereignty and move its HQ there ;-) -- Cheers, McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From daniel at digsys.bg Wed Sep 12 09:49:35 2012 From: daniel at digsys.bg (Daniel Kalchev) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 16:49:35 +0300 Subject: [governance] Meanwhile back at the ranch - Was Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: References: <01CFFDF4-9164-4786-B9C4-784B54D87BC6@digsys.bg> Message-ID: <592CCE16-7A68-4995-9DB3-DBDE658CBCA3@digsys.bg> On Sep 12, 2012, at 4:23 PM, riaz.tayob at gmail.com wrote: > There are a number of issues with kalchevs position from my point of view. > > 1. No global consensus is passed off as a pure case when as far as cir goes the is an imperfect case of de facto control. There is no known case of global consensus, where *everyone* agrees. Not in human history. > 2. Saying there is no global consensus possibility unfairness the reality of choice for us seeking change... And hides the fact that certain kinds of agreements are possible... Wipo treaties, upcoming top, nafta, etc... So while the opinion of anti-multilateralism (or even any form of cooperation) may be valid, the arguments used o support this are not... All of these treaties are accepted by a limited number of parties. This, by definition makes them not "global consensus". As I previously commented, "the law sides with the stronger parties". All of the examples you give, reflect that observation perfectly. > 3. I wonder what you would have made of the techie single rooters arguments in this context historically... Interesting question. When I am faced with choices like this, I make decisions based on my own values and (then current) views and needs. Nothing more, nothing less. I have made some choices, that did result in certain aspects of today's Internet. Others made other choices, some of these choices in concert with mine, some the opposite direction. When the forces were opposite, the stronger party prevailed :) (sometimes by pure persuasion of the masses or even politics) Another fact to consider is that most people dimply do not care. This is the primary reason, why "government" structures exist at all. If everyone cared, those structures could not form in the first place... Internet has this interesting property, that it makes it much easier for anyone to care... even if temporarily, even if for a bit. On the single root issue, the cold reality is that the Internet has as many roots, as there are computers connected to Internet. Each of these computers _independently_ choses who the roots are. Thing is, common sense made so that most computers on the planet point to the same root. Almost (*) I am not trying to coach anyone with these comments: just pointing to some fundamental facts that are often overlooked in these discussions. Daniel (*) There is an effort to keep the list of root servers constant over time. However, from time to time there are changes. There are many computers on Internet, that have out-of-sync root server information and therefore, strictly speaking are not using exactly the same root. Again, most people won't care, as long as it "somehow works". -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 10:31:02 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 20:01:02 +0530 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: References: <505010D3.9020508@itforchange.net> <505067CA.8060609@itforchange.net> Message-ID: (Kidding) Sealand? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 6:53 PM, McTim wrote: > On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 6:45 AM, parminder > wrote: > > > > On Wednesday 12 September 2012 03:49 PM, McTim wrote: > >> > >> Not true, they would certainly appeal if they lost (which they won't). > The > >> new gTLD fee was high, mostly because the US is a litigious place. They > are > >> well capable of defending themselves. > > > > > > Yes, appeal to another US court(s), all of which will apply the relevant > US > > law... And what happens if ICANN loses the appeal(s). For the purpose of > my > > present argument it is bad enough even if it loses partly, as in, say, > the > > courts holds that .xxx can stay but the registry agreement must be > amended > > in such and such manner. > > > > .. You say confidently, they wont lose.... But a governance system cannot > > stand on pre judging the outcomes of all the cases that will ever come > > against it as necessarily in its favour, can it, vis a vis a > jurisdiction > > that it is clearly and fully subject to. And not being ready at all for > the > > scenario of what happens if they lose even one case, even partly, whereby > > they are forced to do something on a US court's order vis a vis their > global > > governance role..... > > > > That is the point. > > > > then there is only one solution. ICANN should use their new gTLD cash > to buy a private island (I suggest a tropical location), declare > sovereignty and move its HQ there ;-) > > -- > Cheers, > > McTim > "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A > route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From dogwallah at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 10:43:09 2012 From: dogwallah at gmail.com (McTim) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 10:43:09 -0400 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: References: <505010D3.9020508@itforchange.net> <505067CA.8060609@itforchange.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 10:31 AM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar wrote: > (Kidding) Sealand? > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand Sealand is far too small and waaaayyy too cold! -- Cheers, McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From pouzin at well.com Wed Sep 12 14:46:12 2012 From: pouzin at well.com (Louis Pouzin (well)) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 20:46:12 +0200 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: References: <505010D3.9020508@itforchange.net> <505067CA.8060609@itforchange.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar wrote: > (Kidding) Sealand? > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand > > An off-shore casino would be a logical HQ for ICANN ;-)) Louis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From apisan at unam.mx Wed Sep 12 15:07:57 2012 From: apisan at unam.mx (Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 19:07:57 +0000 Subject: [governance] ICT4Change participating in ICANN & response Message-ID: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483E3B96@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> Hi all, I'm glad to see IT4Change decided to submit a comment on new gTLD strings along the lines they had previously discussed here. Kudos to Parminder for becoming a participant. There is a response to it in https://community.icann.org/display/newgtldrg/multiple-strings-by-IT-for-change_OG "Evan Leibovitch On a personal level, I am extremely sympathetic to, and agree with many of, the concerns expressed in the objection by "IT for Change". I could easily see myself advocating for its policy goals. However, given the current process it is extremely doubtful that this objection is in scope, and it contains some factual errors in its assumptions: Most specifically, this gTLD expansion program does not mark the introduction of strings longer than three characters, but is rather a massive expansion of an existing program. The group did not seem to have a problem with the existing use of ".aero", ".name" and ".museum", therefore the principle of objecting to all strings longer than three characters has long been mooted. The relative failure to date of three-letter TLDs such as ".pro" and ".biz" indicate that three-letter TLDs did not provide the level of domain expansion/relief that appears to be sought. Furthermore, this objection appears not to be against any single application but indeed against all applications for strings that are dictionary words or longer than three characters. This is far too broad an objection to be applicable for the ALAC-driven review process; indeed, it indicates an objection to policy as opposed to any specific application. While I share the concerns and have expressed many myself, the ability to affect gTLD expansion policy in this direction is also long passed. Without claims of offensiveness or community harm caused by any specific strings, the gTLD review process really will be unable to properly evaluate this objection. And finally, there is something puzzling and inconsistent regarding the objection to monopolizing words at the top level of domains but not at lower levels. For instance, why is single ownership of the "book" TLD more objectionable than single ownership of "book.com"? Arguably, if domains such as "book.com" and "book.co.in" (etc) were not allowed to be privately owned and monopolized, and the domains could be used by multiple book-related destinations, there would be no need for the expansion happening now. Without previous objection to private ownership of common words at lower levels, there is less justification (and less credibility) to now object to private ownership at the top level." A thing of beauty, this multistakeholder open participatory model. Yours, Alejandro Pisanty ! !! !!! !!!! NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475 Dr. Alejandro Pisanty UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ________________________________ Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Milton L -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 15:49:34 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (riaz.tayob at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 22:49:34 +0300 Subject: [governance] ICT4Change participating in ICANN & response In-Reply-To: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483E3B96@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> References: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483E3B96@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> Message-ID: <36CCEB69-621B-49FF-90DF-1A7DECC92DDB@gmail.com> But it is out of scope, irrelevant, or am I wrong? ...,... On 12 Sep 2012, at 10:07 PM, "Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch" wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm glad to see IT4Change decided to submit a comment on new gTLD strings along the lines they had previously discussed here. Kudos to Parminder for becoming a participant. > > There is a response to it in https://community.icann.org/display/newgtldrg/multiple-strings-by-IT-for-change_OG > > "Evan Leibovitch > On a personal level, I am extremely sympathetic to, and agree with many of, the concerns expressed in the objection by "IT for Change". I could easily see myself advocating for its policy goals. However, given the current process it is extremely doubtful that this objection is in scope, and it contains some factual errors in its assumptions: > > Most specifically, this gTLD expansion program does not mark the introduction of strings longer than three characters, but is rather a massive expansion of an existing program. The group did not seem to have a problem with the existing use of ".aero", ".name" and ".museum", therefore the principle of objecting to all strings longer than three characters has long been mooted. The relative failure to date of three-letter TLDs such as ".pro" and ".biz" indicate that three-letter TLDs did not provide the level of domain expansion/relief that appears to be sought. > > Furthermore, this objection appears not to be against any single application but indeed against all applications for strings that are dictionary words or longer than three characters. This is far too broad an objection to be applicable for the ALAC-driven review process; indeed, it indicates an objection to policy as opposed to any specific application. While I share the concerns and have expressed many myself, the ability to affect gTLD expansion policy in this direction is also long passed. Without claims of offensiveness or community harm caused by any specific strings, the gTLD review process really will be unable to properly evaluate this objection. > > And finally, there is something puzzling and inconsistent regarding the objection to monopolizing words at the top level of domains but not at lower levels. For instance, why is single ownership of the "book" TLD more objectionable than single ownership of "book.com"? Arguably, if domains such as "book.com" and "book.co.in" (etc) were not allowed to be privately owned and monopolized, and the domains could be used by multiple book-related destinations, there would be no need for the expansion happening now. Without previous objection to private ownership of common words at lower levels, there is less justification (and less credibility) to now object to private ownership at the top level." > > A thing of beauty, this multistakeholder open participatory model. > > Yours, > > Alejandro Pisanty > > ! !! !!! !!!! > NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO > > > +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD > > +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO > > SMS +525541444475 > Dr. Alejandro Pisanty > UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico > > Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty > Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 > Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty > ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Milton L > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ca at cafonso.ca Wed Sep 12 16:39:10 2012 From: ca at cafonso.ca (Carlos A. Afonso) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 17:39:10 -0300 Subject: [governance] Best Bits - 3-4 November, Days Hotel, Baku, Azerbaijan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5050F2EE.5030105@cafonso.ca> Thx, Malcolm. I will try to arrive on time. Any suggestion of hotels less expensive than the outrageous IGF venue? frt rgds --c.a. On 09/09/2012 08:38 AM, Jeremy Malcolm wrote: > Following on from my earlier "save the date" message, I would like to > confirm that "Best Bits", a strategic gathering of NGOs around Internet > governance and Internet principles, will be taking place at the Days > Hotel, Azerbaijan on 3-4 November 2012, and that Internet Governance > Caucus members are warmly invited to participate. There is a website > (currently a pad, though that may change) for the event at > http://igf-online.net/bestbits and a mailing list at > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/bestbits. > > The main motivation for this meeting was the recognition by a number of > individuals and groups of the potential benefits of a "big tent" > gathering that would bring together NGOs and experts from global North > and South who are working on Internet policy advocacy from different > perspectives, and who could benefit from broadening both their input and > their outreach through an event like this. Rather than detracting from > the diversity of these approaches, the event will seek to share and > build upon the "best bits" of each of them. > > But rather than "just" networking, tangible outputs are also expected > from the event: firstly finalisation of the civil society statement of > Internet governance principles that we announced our intention to draft > at last year's IGF (coordinated by Wolfgang Kleinwächter), and a > statement to the ITU WCIT on the revision of the ITRs (coordinated by > Bill Drake). We are also soliciting background briefing papers on the > topics of discussion that Andrew Puddephatt will be compiling as a > resource for those attending. > > Please visit http://igf-online.net/bestbits to read more about the > agenda for the meeting, and the motivations behind it. In lieu of a > formal registration form, you can add your name to the pad if you will > be coming. At this stage no further requests for travel assistance are > likely to be able to be considered, as a number of existing requests are > still pending, so you are asked to cover your own travel expenses. > However you can benefit from our group rate at the hotel (contact me > about this), and the IGF's visa on arrival procedure. > > Please feel free to share this announcement through your other networks. > Thanks, and we look forward to seeing many of you at Best Bits and the > IGF. > > -- > > *Dr Jeremy Malcolm > Senior Policy Officer > Consumers International | the global campaigning voice for consumers* > Office for Asia-Pacific and the Middle East > Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, > Malaysia > Tel: +60 3 7726 1599 > > *Your rights, our mission – download CI's Strategy 2015:* > http://consint.info/RightsMission > > @Consumers_Int | www.consumersinternational.org > | > www.facebook.com/consumersinternational > > > Read our email confidentiality notice > . Don't > print this email unless necessary. > -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ian.peter at ianpeter.com Wed Sep 12 17:05:59 2012 From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 07:05:59 +1000 Subject: [governance] Meanwhile back at the ranch - Was Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: <01CFFDF4-9164-4786-B9C4-784B54D87BC6@digsys.bg> Message-ID: Daniel, the trouble with these philosophical arguments is they divert us from giving attention to real issues that should be addressed. Of course consensus is achievable, be it in internet standards or international agreements. Of course we are capable of working together for the common good, even if that is a big leap from unilateralism. And I could describe the USG as a decentralised system if I wanted to. All interconnected systems be they governments, international agreements or networks, have elements of centralisation and decentralisation. All of that is missing the point, which is that that because we havent evolved enough to have global policies, guidelines and/or structures to deal with significant issues, we are experiencing significant interference from many governments, and also from large corporations, operating unilaterally to interfere with the free flow of information without having to justify their actions or co-ordinate their actions with other affected parties. Ian Peter From: Daniel Kalchev Reply-To: , Daniel Kalchev Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 13:58:05 +0300 To: "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" Subject: Re: [governance] Meanwhile back at the ranch - Was Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs On Sep 12, 2012, at 10:20 AM, Ian Peter wrote: > Re: [governance] Meanwhile back at the ranch - Was Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling > Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs > The problem is, Daniel, that because we havent evolved enough to have global > policies, guidelines and/or structures to deal with significant issues, we are > experiencing significant interference from many governments, and also from > large corporations, operating unilaterally to interfere with the free flow of > information without having to justify their actions or co-ordinate their > actions with other affected parties. > This is all correct. However my personal opinion is that global consensus and therefore global policy is not achievable, because such is human nature. > No, the Internet was not designed to be like that. Apparently, we look at it from different perspective. Internet is certainly designed to operate without any centralised control system. Any part of Internet can function independently from the other parts and all they can function independently from any external party. This clashes with the "government" concept, or even with the "corporate" concept that everything should be centrally managed and policed. The Internet architecture however matches very closely how human society works (i.e. peer pressure). If we narrow our discussion to DNS only, it seems centralised. It does seem centralised, because most players prefer it this way (people are lazy). However, there are many players on Internet, that don't buy the centralised DNS concept and have for decades operated around it. There are also, other name resolution technologies in use in Internet, that do not use DNS (partially or at all). So, even DNS on Internet is not centralised, strictly speaking. The "problem" of "governments" (of any kind, not only national) with Internet is that this beast simply cannot be framed to their model. On the other side, Internet can accommodate any "government" system ... but that happens within Internet, integrated together with other governments and behaving, not "over" it. I also understand you read my comment in the sense "Internet means anarchy". It doesn't. It's simply the next history wave of returning to normal human interaction model. No doubt, some day, some "bright" mind, perhaps the next Emperor will figure out how to take over Internet --- or so he and his subjects will think for a while. Since I do repeat this opinion form time to time, you might ask, what I think of "Internet Governance". Well, that would depend of what you define by "Governance" here. If it is to build an global control structure of any kind, I will always call it waste of time and resources. If it is to educate those who think the world depends on their wishes (almost any human being falls here), then I am all for it -- people simply have no clue what Internet is and it will be more beneficial for everybody if they learn what they can't do to/with Internet. That will result in much less resources and time wasted. I do remember the statements from several representatives from Africa, during the IGF in Athens: "For the money you all spend here, you could rather provide stable electricity to one of our countries, and then we can talk about Internet" (I know, that's not enough, of course) Daniel ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 18:25:04 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 10:25:04 +1200 Subject: [governance] ICT4Change participating in ICANN & response In-Reply-To: <36CCEB69-621B-49FF-90DF-1A7DECC92DDB@gmail.com> References: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483E3B96@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> <36CCEB69-621B-49FF-90DF-1A7DECC92DDB@gmail.com> Message-ID: It is excellent that they commented and also within the Comment Period. I hope that there are others who have raised concerns also engage the systems by making submissions etc. This is similar to discussions we were having on the TPP here as people were meeting in Virginia, US in the 14th round of negotiations etc. The email which had the subject line "Brainstorming" is designed to gather feedback on primarily 3 things:- - Which model should we select; - Which Policy areas are of interest; - Enlisting of people to populate and lead the Working Groups. Whilst it is one thing to be involved in the CSTD, appoint suitable candidates for MAG, host workshops at the IGFs but we need to create sustainable systems where we can advocate and address issues better than just reacting. Best Regards, Sala On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 7:49 AM, wrote: > But it is out of scope, irrelevant, or am I wrong? > > ...,... > > On 12 Sep 2012, at 10:07 PM, "Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch" < > apisan at unam.mx> wrote: > > Hi all, > > I'm glad to see IT4Change decided to submit a comment on new gTLD > strings along the lines they had previously discussed here. Kudos to > Parminder for becoming a participant. > > There is a response to it in > https://community.icann.org/display/newgtldrg/multiple-strings-by-IT-for-change_OG > > "Evan Leibovitch > > On a personal level, I am extremely sympathetic to, and agree with many > of, the concerns expressed in the objection by "IT for Change". I could > easily see myself advocating for its policy goals. However, given the > current process it is extremely doubtful that this objection is in scope, > and it contains some factual errors in its assumptions: > > Most specifically, this gTLD expansion program does not mark the > introduction of strings longer than three characters, but is rather a > massive expansion of an existing program. The group did not seem to have a > problem with the existing use of ".aero", ".name" and ".museum", therefore > the principle of objecting to all strings longer than three characters has > long been mooted. The relative failure to date of three-letter TLDs such as > ".pro" and ".biz" indicate that three-letter TLDs did not provide the level > of domain expansion/relief that appears to be sought. > > Furthermore, this objection appears not to be against any single > application but indeed against all applications for strings that are > dictionary words or longer than three characters. This is far too broad an > objection to be applicable for the ALAC-driven review process; indeed, it > indicates an objection to policy as opposed to any specific application. > While I share the concerns and have expressed many myself, the ability to > affect gTLD expansion policy in this direction is also long passed. Without > claims of offensiveness or community harm caused by any specific strings, > the gTLD review process really will be unable to properly evaluate this > objection. > > And finally, there is something puzzling and inconsistent regarding the > objection to monopolizing words at the top level of domains but not at > lower levels. For instance, why is single ownership of the "book" TLD more > objectionable than single ownership of "book.com"? Arguably, if domains > such as "book.com" and "book.co.in" (etc) were not allowed to be > privately owned and monopolized, and the domains could be used by multiple > book-related destinations, there would be no need for the expansion > happening now. Without previous objection to private ownership of common > words at lower levels, there is less justification (and less credibility) > to now object to private ownership at the top level." > A thing of beauty, this multistakeholder open participatory model. > > Yours, > > Alejandro Pisanty > > ! !! !!! !!!! > NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO > > > > +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD > > +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO > > SMS +525541444475 > Dr. Alejandro Pisanty > UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico > > Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty > Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, > http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 > Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty > ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > ------------------------------ > *Desde:* governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [ > governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Milton L > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From jeremy at ciroap.org Wed Sep 12 22:49:44 2012 From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 10:49:44 +0800 Subject: [governance] Best Bits - 3-4 November, Days Hotel, Baku, Azerbaijan In-Reply-To: <5050F2EE.5030105@cafonso.ca> References: <5050F2EE.5030105@cafonso.ca> Message-ID: <505149C8.8090100@ciroap.org> On 13/09/12 04:39, Carlos A. Afonso wrote: > Thx, Malcolm. I will try to arrive on time. Any suggestion of hotels > less expensive than the outrageous IGF venue? We have a rate of €80 for single room or €90 for twin share, both plus tax, at the Days Hotel... you can contact me for a room at this rate. -- *Dr Jeremy Malcolm Senior Policy Officer Consumers International | the global campaigning voice for consumers* Office for Asia-Pacific and the Middle East Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Tel: +60 3 7726 1599 *Your rights, our mission – download CI's Strategy 2015:* http://consint.info/RightsMission @Consumers_Int | www.consumersinternational.org | www.facebook.com/consumersinternational Read our email confidentiality notice . Don't print this email unless necessary. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From nb at bollow.ch Thu Sep 13 03:53:56 2012 From: nb at bollow.ch (Norbert Bollow) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 09:53:56 +0200 Subject: [governance] Spanish website gets back seized domain names. After 18 months. Message-ID: <20120913095356.5b6bb17a@quill.bollow.ch> From EDRi-gram (licensed under CC-BY) http://edri.org/edrigram/number10.17/rojadirecta-gets-back-seized-domains-after-18-months Spanish website gets back seized domain names. After 18 months. ======================================================================= After one year and a half battle with the US authorities, the sports streaming and download Spanish site Rojadirecta has succeeded in winning back its domain names, after the authorities dropped the lawsuit against it on 29 August 2012. The .org and .com domains of Rojadirecta were seized in January 2011 as part of operation “Operation In Our Sites”, on a very questionable basis of intellectual property rights violation, and without any court order. The site had already been considered as legally operating in Spain by two Spanish courts. After the seizure, Rojadirecta continued its operation as usual under .es and .me domains and decided to fight back and sued the US government. “We immediately initiated talks with the government, through our legal representatives in San Francisco and New York, in order to obtain the return of (our domains). Since it was impossible at that stage to recover domains amicably, we filed a complaint against the Government, the Department of Homeland Security and the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency of the United States of America,” said Rojadirecta’s owner, the Spanish company Puerto 80. This is not the first case of this type. In 2010 music blog Dajaz1 had its domain name seized which was returned after more than 12 months. It turned out that the seizure, initiated by the RIAA, was a mistake. The concern is that the US government may repeat such abuses without any consequence for them. “I expect that we may see a few more such cases as well. Unfortunately, though, we may not get a clear legal ruling telling the government it can't do this – meaning that they'll be free to continue to abuse their powers in such a manner going forward,” stated Mark Lemley from Puerto 80 legal team. U.S. Returns Seized Domains to Streaming Links Site (After 18 Months) (30.08.2012) http://torrentfreak.com/u-s-returns-seized-domains-to-streaming-links-site-after-18-months-120830/ Oops: After Seizing & Censoring Rojadirecta For 18 Months, Feds Give Up & Drop Case (29.08.2012) http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120829/12370820209/oops-after-seizing-censoring-rojadirecta-18-months-feds-give-up-drop-case.shtml The U.S. Government withdraws complaint against the Rojadirecta domains and the Court orders their return (up-dated 5.09.2012) http://blog.rojadirecta.me/2012/08/30/us-government-withdraws-lawsuit-against-rojadirecta-domains-and-court-orders-their-return/ Rojadirecta wins the fight with the USA Government and recovers its domains (only in Spanish, 30.08.2012) http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2012/08/30/navegante/1346315790.html EDRi-gram: Spanish sports streaming domain seized by US authorities without warning (9.02.2011) http://www.edri.org/edrigram/number9.3/rojadirecta-domain-name-seized-us -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 03:31:42 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 10:31:42 +0300 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: <504F2FAF.1010904@digsys.bg> References: <50332E85.8060106@itforchange.net> <50333A5C.7060908@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD21F9B4D@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <5038BD70.7080909@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD22082FD@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <503F0CA3.3020801@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220B5DE@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <504853B4.6080300@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD220ED52@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>,<504C3775.10709@itforchange.net> <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B135E25@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> <504F092B.1090807@itforchange.net> <504F116B.1040400@gmail.com> <504F1F71.3000708@itforchange.net> <504F2FAF.1010904@digsys.bg> Message-ID: <50518BDE.4050200@gmail.com> Thanks Daniel for this. You put it succinctly, that power does matter a great deal - and it may not be all that matters, but it is the determining factor in many instances... Using this analysis/perspective it is possible to categorise the various strands of views on CIR and internet governance,: namely the evolutionists, the Social Darwinists (as distinct from the evolutionists) which is quite vogue on this list for ethical or pragmatic reasons, realists, pragmatists... and also helps to locate where the reformists (accomodationist reform, or transformative) regarding CIR... Yours is a better stated position than most because of its clarity and simplicity. Not that I agree, but it is stated in a way without obfuscation of issues... it is one thing to say power matters, it is quite another to say there is an ethical basis for the power (which some reformists use to coat the NECESSITY of engagement)... when this is clearly understood, then those with ethical positions can certainly call to task the ethics of the reformists who engage... On 2012/09/11 03:33 PM, Daniel Kalchev wrote: > On 11.09.12 14:24, parminder wrote: >> >> On Tuesday 11 September 2012 03:54 PM, Riaz K Tayob wrote: >>> Parminder >>> >>> One can put is also differently... if it is just US law then it does >>> have de facto global application... >> >> Of course, it is so. Riaz. The exceptions to general rule of national >> territoriality of jurisdictions has mostly been to US's benefit, >> given its global power. The principle target of my argument was the >> proposition that other countries, especially developing ones, could >> exercise their jurisdiction, to a significant extent, over an US >> based institution. I simply see no basis for it. > > There is one fundamental problem with exercising one's sovereignty: > you remain isolated. > Example: the former "East Block" -- it has all the sovereignty it > desired but it came with certain isolation from the rest of the world. > Other examples are the various countries that experiment with their > sovereignty only to discover they are subject to some sort of embargo. > The world has always been this way, since "laws" exist. Most laws have > as their primary purpose to restrict the individual's freedom (their > ability to exercise their very own sovereignty) in exchange for > "public good" promises etc. > >> While on the issue, exceptions to international law have also mostly >> been exercised by the US, again, because of its global power. >> > > Everyone discovers one day that justice is always on the side of the > stronger party. It has been so for millenniums. > It is the lion that eats the gazelle and would not care less if the > gazelle intends to exercise it's sovereignty in any way. > > A while ago we discussed what everyone and anyone can do to behave on > Internet. Many people mistakenly believe that ICANN has any powers > when it comes to operation of the Internet. ICANN is just a forum. > Even if you could usurp an forum, that won't change anything. > > If someone wants their country to become important player in Internet, > then just make it so: invest in whatever infrastructure and services > it takes and that country will be important player in Internet. > Typically, insistence by strangers that they should control something, > that someone else built is ignored -- unless those strangers turn out > to be the prevailing party... > > Daniel > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 03:39:21 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 10:39:21 +0300 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: References: <505010D3.9020508@itforchange.net> <505067CA.8060609@itforchange.net> Message-ID: <50518DA9.8040407@gmail.com> Well if there is rejection of well established multilateral processes (WIPO, UN, WTO, Bretton Wood Institutions) as precedent to usher in a new era of control by the rich countries I guess then anything will do? Why be picky then if democratic and ethical concerns can be sidelined...? On 2012/09/12 09:46 PM, Louis Pouzin (well) wrote: > On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar > > wrote: > > (Kidding) Sealand? > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand > > An off-shore casino would be a logical HQ for ICANN ;-)) > Louis > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 03:43:58 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 10:43:58 +0300 Subject: [governance] ICT4Change participating in ICANN & response In-Reply-To: References: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D483E3B96@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> <36CCEB69-621B-49FF-90DF-1A7DECC92DDB@gmail.com> Message-ID: <50518EBE.6070103@gmail.com> Do others feel the submission is "out of scope"? If those who are interested in change, as opposed to legitimation by increased participation, feel it is out of scope then there is a process question of how to keep the out of scope issues in the discussion while while the issues that can be dealt with inside are... that is policy diversity... otherwise the centrifugal forces of the ICANN vortex could exclude third world concerns ... you see the issue is whether ICANN is relevant for IT4C or whether IT4C is relevant for ICANN = it would not do to conflate these ... On 2012/09/13 01:25 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote: > It is excellent that they commented and also within the Comment > Period. I hope that there are others who have raised concerns also > engage the systems by making submissions etc. -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From jlfullsack at wanadoo.fr Thu Sep 13 05:01:30 2012 From: jlfullsack at wanadoo.fr (jlfullsack at wanadoo.fr) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 11:01:30 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [governance] United Airlines 'Network Outage' Snarls Air Travel In-Reply-To: <20120911110933.70c0c56a@quill.bollow.ch> References: <20120911110933.70c0c56a@quill.bollow.ch> Message-ID: <1714520951.64416.1347526890538.JavaMail.www@wwinf1m15> dear members of the list Norbert wrote : redundancy to avoid any single points of failure. This is significantly > more expensive This may be wrong especially in a "competitItion driven environment" as it exists in most parts in the developing world, in particular in Africa. This neoliberal "networking" leads to multiple networks competing one another, and this happens at both national and (sub)regional levels. See Kenya with its five "backbones" and South Africa with its multiple subregional links where Liquid Telecom is just building its own "panafrican network" ! The total costs (CAPEX + OPEX) of this kind of "multiple networking", which mostly doesn't rely on any serious nor state-of-the-art surveys and planning, are far more expensive than those of BT (UK), DT(Germany) or FT (France) self-healing networks ! But "multiple networking" is so in-tune with the neoliberal melody ... and therefore especially appreciated and promoted by all international institutions, WB and ITU first !    Greetings Jean-Louis Fullsack   > Message du 11/09/12 11:09 > De : "Norbert Bollow" > A : governance at lists.igcaucus.org > Copie à : "Charity Gamboa" > Objet : Re: [governance] United Airlines 'Network Outage' Snarls Air Travel > > Charity Gamboa wrote: > > > You know - network outage may happen anywhere. > > It's possible to design a network for resilience, with enough > redundancy to avoid any single points of failure. This is significantly > more expensive (you don't only have to pay for more equipment, but > also more expensive experts to design and implement it), but I think > that an airline which doesn't have this kind of robust network really > doesn't have any excuse. > > Greetings, > Norbert > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 05:21:51 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 14:51:51 +0530 Subject: [governance] United Airlines 'Network Outage' Snarls Air Travel In-Reply-To: <1714520951.64416.1347526890538.JavaMail.www@wwinf1m15> References: <20120911110933.70c0c56a@quill.bollow.ch> <1714520951.64416.1347526890538.JavaMail.www@wwinf1m15> Message-ID: Mushroom networks has some really interesting internet bonding and sharing appliances that may help implement redundancy with some degree of economy. Yes it's not quite as powerful as a self healing - not even the same range of technology - but it would help to reduce downtime drastically. We depend on the ISP (airtel in our case) for redundancy. For example our network downtime for the last 1 year and 8 months, has been a total of 5 minutes (give or take a few seconds) - and the network switch seems seamless to the users. -C On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 2:31 PM, wrote: > dear members of the list > > > Norbert wrote : > > > redundancy to avoid any single points of failure. This is significantly > > more expensive > > This may be wrong especially in a "competitItion driven environment" as it > exists in most parts in the developing world, in particular in Africa. > > This neoliberal "networking" leads to multiple networks competing one > another, and this happens at both national and (sub)regional levels. See > Kenya with its five "backbones" and South Africa with its multiple > subregional links where Liquid Telecom is just building its own "panafrican > network" ! > > The total costs (CAPEX + OPEX) of this kind of "multiple networking", > which mostly doesn't rely on any serious nor state-of-the-art surveys and > planning, are far more expensive than those of BT (UK), DT(Germany) or FT > (France) self-healing networks ! > > But "multiple networking" is so in-tune with the neoliberal melody ... and > therefore especially appreciated and promoted by all international > institutions, WB and ITU first ! > > > > Greetings > > Jean-Louis Fullsack > > > > > Message du 11/09/12 11:09 > > De : "Norbert Bollow" > > A : governance at lists.igcaucus.org > > Copie à : "Charity Gamboa" > > Objet : Re: [governance] United Airlines 'Network Outage' Snarls Air > Travel > > > > > Charity Gamboa wrote: > > > > > You know - network outage may happen anywhere. > > > > It's possible to design a network for resilience, with enough > > redundancy to avoid any single points of failure. This is significantly > > more expensive (you don't only have to pay for more equipment, but > > also more expensive experts to design and implement it), but I think > > that an airline which doesn't have this kind of robust network really > > doesn't have any excuse. > > > > Greetings, > > Norbert > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > > To be removed from the list, visit: > > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > > > For all other list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From TPHANG at ntu.edu.sg Thu Sep 13 06:17:17 2012 From: TPHANG at ntu.edu.sg (Ang Peng Hwa (Prof)) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 18:17:17 +0800 Subject: [governance] Completely Ignored [was East Africa IGF - day 2, discussion of ITRs] In-Reply-To: <504051ED.9090208@itforchange.net> References: <504051ED.9090208@itforchange.net> Message-ID: Parminder, This looks like a long slow rally in a tennis game. > However please do not claim that there is a 'record' of the fact that you have addressed these issues. Ah, but that’s what I claim. Look at the Subject line. It’s my point: Your claim was that the issues were raised were “completely ignored”. >> I think Peng Hwa must clarify this issue at this stage, on how >>consistently we have raised the same issues and how consistently have >>they been completely ignored, even when promises were made that they >>would be addressed. My rebuttal is that the issues you raised were not completely ignored. Maybe you felt they were not answered to your satisfaction. But they were not COMPLETELY ignored. The record is of that point—that neither you nor the issues were completely ignored. Period. On the other hand, my questions to you have also not been answered. See below. I’m not protesting though. I don’t play tennis any more. Can’t find the racket. Knees are bad. Thank you for agreeing to stop the rally. We should move on. The programme committee of the recent APrIGF will be drawing up some process for forming a multistakeholder steering group and for hosting the next conference. This would be the time to send the list of issues to be addressed and questions answered. From our emails, I doubt that our responses will completely satisfy you. But I still think you do ask some good questions. And I can guarantee that you will not bre “completely ignored”. This is for the record. Regards, Peng Hwa From: parminder [mailto:parminder at itforchange.net] Sent: Friday, 31 August, 2012 1:56 PM To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Ang Peng Hwa (Prof) Subject: Re: [governance] Completely Ignored [was East Africa IGF - day 2, discussion of ITRs] Dear Peng Hwa, Sorry, didnt respond to this earlier. Your email on another elist reminded me so. On Sunday 12 August 2012 11:01 PM, Ang Peng Hwa (Prof) wrote: Dear Parminder, Thank you for your email. I cannot imagine ignoring your email. (In fact, the 2011 email shows that neither you nor the issue was ever "completely ignored.") As the evidence in the email trail and the conversations you agreed we show that neither you nor the issue have been ignored. It's on the record. I dont think we will agree on this. However, the email trail does not at all show the issues that I had raised have 'not been ignored', which is the same as 'they have not been addressed'. Almost none of them have been. (Do you think telling me, well we should talk about these issues some time f2f amount to addressing these issues) Like: you have not told me if you did approach AP UN regional commission or not, and if not why so, and whether you do intend to approach it in future? No information has been forthcoming about direct questions I asked - who are the funders, was the participation of some participants funded, if so, whose and on which criteria (all the the questions that we regularly ask the UN IGF) Who sets up the advisory or steering committee, and on what basis. You havent even declared the names of the members of this committee even on my persistent asking. As someone living in AP area, I have at least a basic right to know such simple things about something which purports to, in some way, represent me. How is your handing over of the ownership of what you call as the regional IGF to a group of technical community organisations (not that I have ever been clear what this term means) makes it 'community owned' and thus self legitimising. And all those old questions/ issues that I have raised about why did you not perhaps start with civil society groups that were active at WSIS, and then build upwards, which would be a really participative excercise, and as you claim your initiative to be, *really* civil society led. I understand that it is entirely up to you to respond to these questions / issues or not ... However please do not claim that there is a 'record' of the fact that you have addressed these issues. snip You havent told me why UNESCAP was not approached when most other regional IGF involve the regional UN commissions, I reacted to this right away when you told me this the first time in 2010 by emailing you either immediately or very soon after I got your email. I remember you saying that with the endorsement of UNESCAP we could then use the IGF logo. I also remember asking with astonishment why we had to get the endorsement of UNESCAP in order to use the IGF moniker. There was no rule for or against holding an IGF. We spoke at the APrIGF in Hongkong and I remember asking you who says so. You could not give me a good answer. This does not correspond to my recollection of our exchange, at least certainly of what I was saying. I have associated closely enough the UN IGF processes to know that there is no such rule. I only said that such connecting to established 'public' regional instutions gives the initiative the kind of credibility which is needed for anyone to call it an AP regional IGF. Reminding you again that in both the existing regional IGFs in developing regions of the world, Africa and Latin America, the regional UN regional commissions play an important part. It is you who must really have a good reason to exclude the UN regional commission in AP region. best regards, parminder In my mind therefore, you and I had therefore come to a stalemate (glass half-empty POV) or an understanding (glass half-full POV). That was why I sent you the invite in 2011. Now, before you hasten to think that I am being especially non understanding and harsh on you, pl know that I ask the same questions from the global IGF (in fact IGC has been doing it consistently) and I/ we also did our best to get much of this into the report of the CSTD WG on IGF improvements. So, if I dont ask these question vis a vis an event calling itself the regional AP IGF, I will be being very inconsistent (which unfortunately, some people on this list are being) With the greatest of due respect, I think your consistency is misplaced. The first two APrIGFs were in essence startups. For the 2010 meeting, Edmon was raising funds, organizing logistics, chairing the programme committee, designing the website, sending out the publicity, etc. And Edmon actually had three overlapping meetings happening in that week. In the following year, Edmon certainly helped but most of what he did the year earlier was handed over to me. With any new effort, it is natural that people are cautious about how much weight to give to it. The most obvious group to appeal to are those directly involved in the more technical matters of the Internet. It is the also a point of having a regional meeting—to publicise Internet governance to the larger community. This year was a lot better as there were three different groups—the local organising committee in Tokyo to handle logistics, the secretariat handled by Edmon’s dotAsia and the programme committee that I chaired. With the workload more spread out, it’s easier to give more thought to some of the issues you have raised. In this background, your claim that your AP rIGF is legitimate because 'now' it is under a loose unclear technical community umbrella group sounds to me rather revisionist from a civil society point of view. What do you propose as a solution then? This year, there was a call for panels and some of the panelists were funded. The next APrIGF will have a similar CFP. No, that is not enough. There has to a representative, participative, transparent process from the very start. I am most surprised that you are still not committing to one. You are just saying there was a call for proposals, and next year too there will be one. Also, I want information of which panels were funded and on what creteria. Who can disagree with representative participation and a transparent process? Fwiw, the organisers of the 2012 meeting will have meeting to discuss ways to improve the APrIGF. Izumi has been at the forefront in sending the group a wish list of things that the next committee should look into. You are welcome to send us your wish list. Regards, Peng Hwa PS. For those who want to know more about AP*, the APStar.org website gives more details about the group. AP* is a loose grouping of mostly technical associations in the Asia Pacific region involved with the Internet, a sort of association of associations. From: Parminder Singh > Date: Thursday, August 2, 2012 4:18 PM To: "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" >, AngPH >, Izumi Aizu > Subject: Re: [governance] Completely Ignored [was East Africa IGF - day 2, discussion of ITRs] Peng Hwa (and Izumi) On Tuesday 24 July 2012 05:17 PM, Ang Peng Hwa (Prof) wrote: Parminder, Back from a meeting between the emails. First things first. Thank you for your email. I cannot imagine ignoring your email. (In fact, the 2011 email shows that neither you nor the issue was ever "completely ignored.") It is not about ignoring me. It is about the issues that not only were ignored, they are still being ignored. You still havent answered, any of the questions that I raised in my 2010 conversations, 2011 email or even in the present exchange. You havent told me why UNESCAP was not approached when most other regional IGF involve the regional UN commissions, you havent told me why efforts were not made to connect to non-technical community NGOs before preparation begun, including those persons/ groups who were involved with WSIS Asia Pacific caucus for instance, why almost no government seems to be involved, i have no clear information on who were on the organising committee (simple information, isnt it, why not share it), who set up the organising committee, who all funded the event, how many and which all participants to the event were funded and on what criteria etc...... Now, before you hasten to think that I am being especially non understanding and harsh on you, pl know that I ask the same questions from the global IGF (in fact IGC has been doing it consistently) and I/ we also did our best to get much of this into the report of the CSTD WG on IGF improvements. So, if I dont ask these question vis a vis an event calling itself the regional AP IGF, I will be being very inconsistent (which unfortunately, some people on this list are being) I like to think that I would have answered at least some of your suggestions but I honestly cannot recall it now. No, you did not. The proof of it is, you still havent even when I ask again. Be that as it may, I may have felt that you were "mollified" (aka agree to disagree) because at that time, you had questioned the legitimacy of the APrIGF. I had said that the legitimacy argument would in fact play into the hands of those who question the legitimacy of civil society, an argument that I thought you accepted. Hence the friendly invite for 2011. I'm wondering if the debate is now moot because: 1. The IGF Secretariat has now come up with the guidelines for what a regional or national IGF should contain. (The Secretariat itself clearly has no problems with others using the IGF to indicate their national or regional IGF is part of the UN-level IGF.) This is a rather low bar and the APrIGF meets it. It is not enough if they set the bar low , it is not that civil society is just sitting to receive with fulsome gratitude whatever the IGF secretariat does or communicates (no, that is not how we have worked traditionally) . We make and let know our positions. The question is, are you fine with the low bar set for regional IGFs? If so, why did we fight so much for raising the bar for the global IGF through our engagements with the WG on IGF improvements, Will be very grateful for an answer, especially from Izumi who was on the WG. 1. The APrIGF is now under AP*. Some processes have been put in place for approval of the venue, chair of the PC, etc. I dont think many people here know what AP* is, and therefore you will have to elaborate. I see it as a group largely of organisations that tend to see themselves as the technical community, right! So, perhaps, the equivalent of what you are declaring as the grounds of legitimacy for the so call AP IGF will be someone saying global IGF is now very fine and immune from criticism because' it is now under ISOC'..... I dont know whether you are aware of it or not, but some such proposal, to put IGF under the ISOCs, were mooted during the IGF, but most civil society strongly opposed it. In this background, your claim that your AP rIGF is legitimate because 'now' it is under a loose unclear technical community umbrella group sounds to me rather revisionist from a civil society point of view. 1. This year, there was a call for panels and some of the panelists were funded. The next APrIGF will have a similar CFP. No, that is not enough. There has to be a representative, participative, transparent process from the very start. I am most surprised that you are still not committing to one. You are just saying there was a call for proposals, and next year too there will be one. Also, I want information of which panels were funded and on what creteria. thanks for your engagement, parminder You can expect the APrIGF to be more transparent in the future. And of course your suggestions to improve its governance and processes are always welcome. Regards, Peng Hwa From: Parminder Singh > Date: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 1:30 PM To: "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" >, AngPH > Subject: Re: [governance] Completely Ignored [was East Africa IGF - day 2, discussion of ITRs] Peng Hwa, You have mentioned in your email how I had raised a number of issues when you had first organised the so-called APrIGF in Hongkong in 2010. Indeed, after a few exchanges IT for Change agreed to be present at the meeting on the condition that we would basically say the same things at the meeting about its legitimacy etc as we had been arguing. You kindly consented and we did attend the meeting and made our point. However, what surprises me is your conclusion that we were somehow mollified by our conversations with you at Hongkong and then at Vilnius. There is no question of such mollification without the issues we raised being addressed, and as is evident, they never were. What is even more surprising are your comments, quote below from your email of the last week, about the second so called APrIGF in Singapore. "When I organized the meeting in Singapore, you did not raise any objection." and, again later in the email " In Singapore, you did not raise any objections. And I thought that's where the issue stood." (Peng Hwa) It has obviously entirely skipped your memory, but when you wrote to me inviting me for the Singapore meeting, I wrote a detailed email to you which not only raised the same issues that I had raised earlier, but also suggested, in considerable detail, what in our opinion is the right way to go about organising the APrIGF (so much so for all this talk from various parties that I should be constructive etc, which I must say is a more than a bit patronising). I reproduce below my email to you before Singapore. I would not make your response public which is up to you to decide whatever to do about. I however must say that I had even at that time asked for your permission to make my email public but was persuaded not to, pending further f2f discussions etc which never happened. parminder My email in response to an invitation to attend the Singapore so called APrIGF is below. On 5/3/11 12:36 AM, "Parminder Singh" wrote: Dear Peng Hwa, It is always nice to hear from you, and hope you are doing well! Thank you for inviting me to chair a session during the proposed meeting. I do quite appreciate the utmost sincerely and serious application that you bring to your efforts to keep a dialogue on Internet Governance alive in the Asia Pacific region. However, for the reason mentioned below in some detail , I am constrained to decline your kind invitation. As mentioned in our conversations before the similar meeting last year, I do not think it legitimate to call any meeting as a regional IGF without a minimum standard of broad participation and 'ownership', especially of public interest actors. Last year I was told that it was the first time and the meeting has been planned in haste, and that things should improve for subsequent meetings. However, in this invite for the 2011 meeting I see no indication about who all are on the organizing committee, how was the agenda and speaker selection arrived at, etc. Apart from the basic legitimacy question, holding of such meetings under the banner of national/regional IGFs has a negative reverse impact on the global IGF to make it look like it too was just another annual conference on IG, which I do not think it is (though some people do) . I think that the global IGF is, or at least is supposed to be, an innovative experiment in deliberative and participatory democracy for global governance of the Internet. At least some basic features of the global IGF suggests the possibility that the global IGF can, if we have the political will for it, hopefully evolve to be something close to this ideal. These features are; strong mooring in a public institution - or a set of them, a good amount of public funding (though not at all of the kind, and extent, that can be considered satisfactory), a multistakeholder group deciding the agenda of the meeting and the speakers through an intensively consultative process, and such. While some of us are struggling to ensure that the annual IGF has an even greater public and democratic character, organization of completely private meetings opaquely planned and executed, with unknown sponsors and key drivers, like the proposed meeting being called the Asia Pacific Regional IGF, is to us a retrograde step. It is for this reason that we cannot associate with it, and in fact oppose it to be held under its proposed name. I do understand how difficult it is to be innovative and entrepreneurial in such matters and actually pull an event like this together; and in relation how facile it may be considered to criticize such almost valiant efforts. I must therefore engage constructively and suggest what could alternatively have been done and would, in my opinion, have been the better option. Though I cannot suggest funding options right away, it is possible that the Asia Pacific UN regional commission (ESCAP) could have shown some interest in this event. Was it even approached at all? Funding from governments of some countries could also been explored apart from sourcing 'monopoly funds' (akin to Internet tax) that are collected by registrars and such registries that use the commons resources of geo-political expressions like ctlds. In any case, wider participation of public interest actors is always possible to seek. There was this Asia Pacific Civil Society Caucus at WSIS, which is now defunct but one can recollect some key names of those - individuals and organizations - who participated actively. Then there are Civil Society Internet Governance Caucus members from Asia Pacific quite active in the Internet Governance Caucus. There are also MAG members from this region. I have no indication that these actors had any role at all in shaping an activity which is being called the Asia Pacific Regional IGF. I must once again mention that I hold you and your sincere efforts towards a continued dialogue on Internet governance in our region in great esteem. And this statement is made most sincerely because I have known you and your work closely. The proposed meeting should simply have been named something like 'an regional dialogue on IG' or some such thing rather than a regional IGF. In this regard we have the example of EURODIG. I do hope that such a change can still be made so that it leaves no room for confusion regarding the nature of the proposed meeting. We should do nothing to contribute to promoting privatized realms of governance for such an important social, economic, political and cultural phenomenon as the Internet. We fear that through privatized governance models for the Internet, what is really being done is to challenge the very essentials of democratic thought and ideals for all aspects of our social life. I look forward to hear your response to the issues that I have raised, and discuss them at as much length as may be required. However, meanwhile, I may have to take the contents of this letter to the public domain, since it really is not a response to you individually but a much larger engagement with issues concerning democracy and public interest, specifically about the nature of institutions that can serve these ideals. With respect, and the very best regards Parminder On Thursday 28 April 2011 06:38 AM, Ang Peng Hwa (Prof) wrote: APrIGF Dear Parminder, Greetings from Singapore! I append below the draft programme for the coming APrIGF in Singapore. This will be jus before the ICANN meeting. 1. Can you make it? 2. Can you participate in a panel or chair one? We have the plenaries as well as the workshops. 3. Regards, Peng Hwa ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY:This email is intended solely for the person(s) named and may be confidential and/or privileged.If you are not the intended recipient,please delete it,notify us and do not copy,use,or disclose its content. Towards A Sustainable Earth:Print Only When Necessary.Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ca at cafonso.ca Thu Sep 13 06:52:01 2012 From: ca at cafonso.ca (Carlos A. Afonso) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 07:52:01 -0300 Subject: [governance] Best Bits - 3-4 November, Days Hotel, Baku, Azerbaijan In-Reply-To: <505149C8.8090100@ciroap.org> References: <5050F2EE.5030105@cafonso.ca> <505149C8.8090100@ciroap.org> Message-ID: <5051BAD1.1080703@cafonso.ca> Thx, Malcolm! Michael Gurstein also offered shelter in the apt he is renting with Parminder. Now I have two choices! Great! Let me first get the exact arrival date (CGI.br is issuing my e-ticket), but I guess it will be Nov.02. Back to you soon. frt rgds --c.a. On 09/12/2012 11:49 PM, Jeremy Malcolm wrote: > On 13/09/12 04:39, Carlos A. Afonso wrote: >> Thx, Malcolm. I will try to arrive on time. Any suggestion of hotels >> less expensive than the outrageous IGF venue? > > We have a rate of €80 for single room or €90 for twin share, both plus > tax, at the Days Hotel... you can contact me for a room at this rate. > > -- > > *Dr Jeremy Malcolm > Senior Policy Officer > Consumers International | the global campaigning voice for consumers* > Office for Asia-Pacific and the Middle East > Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, > Malaysia > Tel: +60 3 7726 1599 > > *Your rights, our mission – download CI's Strategy 2015:* > http://consint.info/RightsMission > > @Consumers_Int | www.consumersinternational.org > | > www.facebook.com/consumersinternational > > > Read our email confidentiality notice > . Don't > print this email unless necessary. > -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From lehto.paul at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 08:38:30 2012 From: lehto.paul at gmail.com (Paul Lehto) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 08:38:30 -0400 Subject: [governance] Brainstorming [Improvements to IGC Coordination on IG Policies] #Working Groups In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: To take some offlist discussion back on the list, I'd be interested in serving with respect to topics 8, 9, 11, 12 and 13 or any larger committee that incorporated any of those as a major part. Paul Lehto, J.D. On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 7:52 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear All, > > As you can imagine, we are constantly faced with the challenges of > improving the manner in which we coordinate advocacy in policy areas > pertaining to Internet Governance. Following the current evaluation of the > IGC, we will issue another Survey to generate suggestions on how we can > improve out internal coordination as the IGC. Things like developing > positions on Policy areas. > The IGC has following consensus developed positions on certain areas such > as Freedom of Expression, Remote Participation, Human Rights etc. Noting > that with critical forums looming namely, the IGF and other forums that > will require global input from the IGC, I have put together some thoughts. > Let me have your comments. > > > *Background* > > Following the recent Survey conducted by the IGC there is consensus that > there is a need to enhance the coordination of advocacy of critical > Internet Governance issues in key Forums aside from the IGF. As such, we > would like to gather your views about how we are going to go about > achieving the same. > > > The WGIG 2005 Report had identified 4 Public Policy Clusters namely[1]<#139ad7396623bca6__ftn1> > :- > > a) (a) Issues Relating to Infrastructure and Management of Critical > Internet Resources, including administration of domain name systems and > Internet Protocol Addresses, Administration of the root server system, > technical standards, peering and interconnection, telecommunications > infrastructure, including innovative and convergent technologies, as well > as multilingualization; > > b) (b) Issues relating to the use of the Internet including spam, > network security and cyber crime; > > c) (c.) Issues that are relevant to the Internet but have an impact > much wider than the Internet such as Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) and > International Trade; > > d) (d.) Issues relating to the developmental aspects of Internet > Governance in particular capacity building in developing countries. > > The WGIG then highlighted critical policy areas for the attention of the > WSIS[2] <#139ad7396623bca6__ftn2>. The Table below illustrates the Policy > Cluster as well as the policy issues. > > *No.* > > *#* > > *POLICY AREAS* > > *POLICY CLUSTER* > > 1 > > Administration of the Root Zones, Files and Systems > > a > > 2 > > Interconnection Costs > > a > > 3 > > Allocation of Domain Names > > a > > 4 > > IP Addressing > > a > > 5 > > Multilingualism > > a > > 6 > > Internet Stability, Security and Cyber Crime > > b > > 7 > > Spam > > b > > 8 > > Intellectual Property Rights > > c > > 9 > > Meaningful Participation in Global Policy Development > > a, b, c, d > > 10 > > Capacity Building > > A,b,c,d > > 11 > > Freedom of Expression > > A,b,c,d > > 12 > > Data Protection and Privacy Rights > > A,b,c,d > > 13 > > Consumer Rights > > A,b,c,d > > > > > > > > *Working Groups* > > Having read the feedback from the Survey that was done by Norbert Bollow > some time ago, it is clear that it is far more beneficial to develop > positions on key issues prior to deciding which forums the IGC is going to > engage in. The Working Groups will mean that interested IGC subscribers > can volunteer their names to be part of the Working Group. They can also > volunteer to lead the Groups. For now it will be good if we agreed on a > model for coordination, enlist volunteers etc. > > > *Focus of Working Groups* > > Working Groups can be tasked to do the following in each of their Policy > Areas, namely:- > > > 1. *Create a repository of all submissions and Statements > made by the IGC or other Civil Society organizations: *This can be > done by going through the ListServe Archives, UN Publications etc; > 2. *Identify the issues:* What the issues are? Have these > been addressed? Recommendations > 3. *Identify Forums for Advocacy:* presentation of the IGC > position > 4. *Preparation of an Information Paper : *summary of issues, > advocacy options > 5. *Generating Discussion:* Generating Discussion with the > IGC and assisting the IGC in formulating consensus position in the policy > area > > There are a few options available to the IGC and that is whether we would > like to have Working Groups that is based on the Policy Clusters could mean > something like this. Please note that the Policy Clusters are far more > expansive and include things like International Trade and issues tabled for > discussions in relation to the WCIT. > > > > *Model 1* > > *Working Group* > > *Policy Cluster Description* > > *Policy Areas* > > A > > Issues Relating to Infrastructure and Management of Critical Internet > Resources, including administration of domain name systems and Internet > Protocol Addresses, Administration of the root server system, technical > standards, peering and interconnection, telecommunications infrastructure, > including innovative and convergent technologies, as well as > multilingualization > > > > > > #1, #2, #3, #4, #5 > > B > > Issues relating to the use of the Internet including spam, network > security and cyber crime; > > > > #6, #7 > > C > > Issues that are relevant to the Internet but have an impact much wider > than the Internet such as Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) and > International Trade > > #8, #9, #10, #11, #12, #13 > > d > > Issues relating to the developmental aspects of Internet Governance in > particular capacity building in developing countries > > #8, #9, #10, #11, #12, #13 > > > > * * > > *Model 2* > > To have 13 Working Groups to specifically work in the following policy > areas. > > *No.* > > *#* > > *POLICY AREAS* > > *POLICY CLUSTER* > > 1 > > Administration of the Root Zones, Files and Systems > > a > > 2 > > Interconnection Costs > > a > > 3 > > Allocation of Domain Names > > a > > 4 > > IP Addressing > > a > > 5 > > Multilingualism > > a > > 6 > > Internet Stability, Security and Cyber Crime > > b > > 7 > > Spam > > b > > 8 > > Intellectual Property Rights > > c > > 9 > > Meaningful Participation in Global Policy Development > > a, b, c, d > > 10 > > Capacity Building > > A,b,c,d > > 11 > > Freedom of Expression > > A,b,c,d > > 12 > > Data Protection and Privacy Rights > > A,b,c,d > > 13 > > Consumer Rights > > A,b,c,d > > > > * * > > ------------------------------ > > [1] <#139ad7396623bca6__ftnref1> Report of the Working Group on Internet > Governance 2005, Chateau de Bossey in > http://www.wgig.org/docs/WGIGREPORT.pdf > > [2] <#139ad7396623bca6__ftnref2> ibid > > > > > > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Paul R Lehto, J.D. P.O. Box 1 Ishpeming, MI 49849 lehto.paul at gmail.com 906-204-4965 (cell) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From lnalwoga at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 10:37:30 2012 From: lnalwoga at gmail.com (Lillian Nalwoga) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 17:37:30 +0300 Subject: [governance] Re: Freedom Online Conference Nairobi now live In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You are welcome Sala. Yes, we look forward to even more participation and interactions in Tunisia. Kind regards, Lillian On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 10:18 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear Lillian, > > Thank you for alerting us to an excellent conference and there are many of > us who followed the sessions closely and were tweeting at the same time. > The streaming was excellent. > > We also anticipate the 2014 Conference that will be hosted in Tunisia. > > Warm Regards, > Sala > > On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 7:33 PM, Lillian Nalwoga wrote: > >> Hello members, >> >> You can now follow the Freedom Online Conference Nairobi live @ >> http://trincmedia.com/live/ and on twitter #ofKe , #FreedomOnlineKe >> >> Regards, >> >> Lillian >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From pouzin at well.com Thu Sep 13 13:21:44 2012 From: pouzin at well.com (Louis Pouzin (well)) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 19:21:44 +0200 Subject: [governance] When will ACTA II be fought out ? In-Reply-To: <504DE0D4.2090703@gmail.com> References: <50499472.7050508@gmail.com> <504DA202.2020303@gmail.com> <504DE0D4.2090703@gmail.com> Message-ID: It seems the TPP negotiators have not learnt much from ACTA's rout. Reactions after leaking their draft agreement are clear indicators that their secret agenda is bound to turn as broken as ACTA. US lobbies have been vying to impose a hard consensus to a small coalition of countries, and then snowballing it into a de facto dominant international order. Oops ! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/13/obama-trade-document-leak_n_1592593.html http://www.citizenstrade.org/ctc/blog/2012/06/13/newly-leaked-tpp-investment-chapter-contains-special-rights-for-corporations/ TPP draft http://www.citizenstrade.org/ctc/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/tppinvestment.pdf - - - On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 2:45 PM, Riaz K Tayob wrote: > [No transparency, no access, and for the pursuit of life liberty and copyright protection... so much for exceptionalism...] > http://amnesty.org/en/for-media/press-releases/tpp-must-not-trade-away-free-speech-and-health-2012-09-06 > > 6 September 2012 > TPP Must Not Trade Away Free Speech and Health > > Negotiators from nine countries gathering outside Washington DC to draft a new Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) trade agreement must ensure that any new rules on copyright and patents adhere to core principles of transparency and uphold human rights, Amnesty International said today. > > "No one has the right to trade away our hard-fought legal protections for free speech and the right to health, and much less to do it behind closed doors," said Suzanne Nossel, executive director for Amnesty International USA. > > "It is time for TPP negotiators to show the public their cards and, more importantly, the draft text of the agreement." > > This text has been kept a secret since negotiations began in 2007, but leaked information suggests that it would attempt to achieve some of the same objectives of the widely criticized Anti-Counterfeiting Agreement (ACTA). > > Specifically, leaked TPP draft text neglects protections for fair use and standard judicial guarantees - such as the presumption of innocence - and includes copyright provisions that could compromise free speech on the internet and access to educational materials. > > Moreover, draft TPP provisions related to patents for pharmaceuticals risk stifling the development and production of generic medicines, by strengthening and deepening monopoly protections. > > "Access to life-saving medicines is a right, not a privilege, and the TPP must put people ahead of profits," Nossel said. > > In 2007, negotiations on the Trans-Pacific Partnership started between Chile, New Zealand, and Singapore. The United States joined the negotiations in 2008, with Canada and Mexico expected to join negotiations soon. > > The TPP countries account for 27 per cent of global Gross Domestic Product. > > The talks that start today in Leesburg, Virginia, hosted by the United States Trade Representative, are the 14th round of negotiations. > AI Index: PRE01/424/2012 > > > On 2012/09/10 11:41 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote: > > Currently the TPP negotiations, the 14th round is being held in Leesburg, > Virginia from September 6-15, 2012 . > > Today is the day allocated for those who have registered to take part in > the Stakeholders discussions. You had to register to participate. You can > visit: http://www.ustr.gov/tpp to access highlights and overviews and > actual FTAs. It has been reported from other news sources that His > Excellency B. Obama wants to conclude the TPP by this year's end. > > There is an interesting article by Gordon Campbell, see: > http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1209/S00040/gordon-campbell-on-apec-and-its-significance-for-tpp-talks.htm > > > On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 8:17 PM, Riaz K Tayob wrote: > >> Thanks for this... informative and very useful links... >> >> I was hoping that middle class America would realise that ONE of the >> principle means that "good jobs" are lost is through the >> internationalisation of intellectual property rights... but Ihave no idea >> what passes for progressives or how issues come to light in these societies >> so your take is not only useful, but also puts forward some grounds for >> common interests... >> >> It is a pity that more was not done to raise the issue of conflation of >> domain names and trade marks... >> >> Just as a side issue, the close affiliation of govt and telecoms >> companies also had a material/technological basis - with fibre optics, govt >> needed to be at the telecom HQs (but I may be wrong)... and with the Bush >> retrospective legalisation - well that is about the worst thing in legal >> terms... retrospectivity... >> >> On 2012/09/10 11:01 AM, Louis Pouzin (well) wrote: >> >> Hi Riaz, >> >> Why I think this is the case ? >> >> It takes a bit of revisiting some history to set the scene. Who >> remembers, or has forgotten, the ATT-NSA spying net story between 2002 and >> 2005 ? >> >> [snip] >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From rrangnath at publicknowledge.org Thu Sep 13 13:49:11 2012 From: rrangnath at publicknowledge.org (Rashmi Rangnath) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 13:49:11 -0400 Subject: [governance] When will ACTA II be fought out ? In-Reply-To: References: <50499472.7050508@gmail.com> <504DA202.2020303@gmail.com> <504DE0D4.2090703@gmail.com> Message-ID: All: My name is Rashmi Rangnath and I work for a Washington DC based organization called Public Knowledge. I have been following discussions on this list for a few months and have found it very informative. My organization, with EFF and many others, has been fighting against various aspects of the TPP for about two years. Public Knowledge's primary focus is the copyright chapter. But we have grave concerns about the secretive nature of the process as well. We have collected some information and analysis at this website: http://tppinfo.org. I would welcome any thoughts and comments you have on the analysis presented there. Also, if any of you are also working on any aspect of the TPP, I would welcome an opportunity to have a conversation with you. Regards, Rashmi On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Louis Pouzin (well) wrote: > It seems the TPP negotiators have not learnt much from ACTA's rout. > Reactions after leaking their draft agreement are clear indicators that > their secret agenda is bound to turn as broken as ACTA. US lobbies have > been vying to impose a hard consensus to a small coalition of countries, > and then snowballing it into a de facto dominant international order. Oops ! > > > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/13/obama-trade-document-leak_n_1592593.html > > http://www.citizenstrade.org/ctc/blog/2012/06/13/newly-leaked-tpp-investment-chapter-contains-special-rights-for-corporations/ > > TPP draft > > http://www.citizenstrade.org/ctc/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/tppinvestment.pdf > - - - > > > On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 2:45 PM, Riaz K Tayob wrote: > >> [No transparency, no access, and for the pursuit of life liberty and copyright protection... so much for exceptionalism...] >> http://amnesty.org/en/for-media/press-releases/tpp-must-not-trade-away-free-speech-and-health-2012-09-06 >> >> 6 September 2012 >> TPP Must Not Trade Away Free Speech and Health >> >> Negotiators from nine countries gathering outside Washington DC to draft a new Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) trade agreement must ensure that any new rules on copyright and patents adhere to core principles of transparency and uphold human rights, Amnesty International said today. >> >> "No one has the right to trade away our hard-fought legal protections for free speech and the right to health, and much less to do it behind closed doors," said Suzanne Nossel, executive director for Amnesty International USA. >> >> "It is time for TPP negotiators to show the public their cards and, more importantly, the draft text of the agreement." >> >> This text has been kept a secret since negotiations began in 2007, but leaked information suggests that it would attempt to achieve some of the same objectives of the widely criticized Anti-Counterfeiting Agreement (ACTA). >> >> Specifically, leaked TPP draft text neglects protections for fair use and standard judicial guarantees - such as the presumption of innocence - and includes copyright provisions that could compromise free speech on the internet and access to educational materials. >> >> Moreover, draft TPP provisions related to patents for pharmaceuticals risk stifling the development and production of generic medicines, by strengthening and deepening monopoly protections. >> >> "Access to life-saving medicines is a right, not a privilege, and the TPP must put people ahead of profits," Nossel said. >> >> In 2007, negotiations on the Trans-Pacific Partnership started between Chile, New Zealand, and Singapore. The United States joined the negotiations in 2008, with Canada and Mexico expected to join negotiations soon. >> >> The TPP countries account for 27 per cent of global Gross Domestic Product. >> >> The talks that start today in Leesburg, Virginia, hosted by the United States Trade Representative, are the 14th round of negotiations. >> AI Index: PRE01/424/2012 >> >> >> On 2012/09/10 11:41 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote: >> >> Currently the TPP negotiations, the 14th round is being held in Leesburg, >> Virginia from September 6-15, 2012 . >> >> Today is the day allocated for those who have registered to take part >> in the Stakeholders discussions. You had to register to participate. You >> can visit: http://www.ustr.gov/tpp to access highlights and overviews >> and actual FTAs. It has been reported from other news sources that His >> Excellency B. Obama wants to conclude the TPP by this year's end. >> >> There is an interesting article by Gordon Campbell, see: >> http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1209/S00040/gordon-campbell-on-apec-and-its-significance-for-tpp-talks.htm >> >> >> On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 8:17 PM, Riaz K Tayob wrote: >> >>> Thanks for this... informative and very useful links... >>> >>> I was hoping that middle class America would realise that ONE of the >>> principle means that "good jobs" are lost is through the >>> internationalisation of intellectual property rights... but Ihave no idea >>> what passes for progressives or how issues come to light in these societies >>> so your take is not only useful, but also puts forward some grounds for >>> common interests... >>> >>> It is a pity that more was not done to raise the issue of conflation of >>> domain names and trade marks... >>> >>> Just as a side issue, the close affiliation of govt and telecoms >>> companies also had a material/technological basis - with fibre optics, govt >>> needed to be at the telecom HQs (but I may be wrong)... and with the Bush >>> retrospective legalisation - well that is about the worst thing in legal >>> terms... retrospectivity... >>> >>> On 2012/09/10 11:01 AM, Louis Pouzin (well) wrote: >>> >>> Hi Riaz, >>> >>> Why I think this is the case ? >>> >>> It takes a bit of revisiting some history to set the scene. Who >>> remembers, or has forgotten, the ATT-NSA spying net story between 2002 and >>> 2005 ? >>> >>> [snip] >>> >>> > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Rashmi Rangnath Director, Global Knowledge Initiative and Staff Attorney Public Knowledge 1818 N Street NW Suite 410 Washington, D.C. 20036 202 861 0020 rrangnath at publicknowledge.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ms.narine.khachatryan at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 14:24:58 2012 From: ms.narine.khachatryan at gmail.com (Narine Khachatryan) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 22:24:58 +0400 Subject: [governance] European Parliament adopted on 13 September the Resolution on Azerbaijan Message-ID: Dear friends, Today the European Parliament adopted the Resolution on Azerbaijan. ( http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?type=TA&reference=20120913&secondRef=TOC&language=EN , also in attachment) And this is not surprising at all. Since Azerbaijan continues to demonstrate that it is an intolerant country, inciting national and religious hatred, constantly violating human rights and destabilizing the situation in the region. Over years Azeri authorities have been publicly and furiously advocating Armenia-phobia among its people. Recently Azerbaijani authorities have been glorifying and making a hero from an axe-murderer of the sleeping man. Upon arrival to Baku the murderer was granted the rank of army major, a new flat in the capital city and a salary for years spent in prison (!!!). The main message of most Azeri media within recent two weeks has been "axe murderer = hero". This is a simple call to kill innocent people on ethnic and religious grounds to become national heroes and receive promotions in Baku. This policy is the easiest way to distract people’s attention from the problems existing in the country: corruption, authoritarian and oligarchic government, the inherited power from the father to the son, constant violation of human rights and intimidations against the civil society, suppression of the free press. Why to focus on the everyday social-economic problems, if the president can easily gain support of thousands of nationalists, having just murderer’s photo published as a cover image on his FB official page. The glorification of the xenophobic, racist “value system” reaffirms the simple truth stated by the nation of Nagorno Karabakh for decades: the only warrant for the security of the whole region is the international recognition of the Republic of Nagorno-Karabakh. This will serve as a barrier against the constant Azeri threats and will assure sustainable development for the whole Caucasus region. Non-democratic and autocratic regime in Azerbaijan is one of the serious threats to the regional development and security. In fact, Baku is using oil con tracts with the western companies to suppress freedom and democracy. Using oil revenues, Azerbaijan* *increases offensive weapons violating all the possible ceilings of the OSCE and the Treaty on Conventional Forces in Europe. What this country with the oil-autocracy-xenophobia-barbarism-axe value system can give to the region? Narine Khachatryan Yerevan, Armenia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: getDoc.doc Type: application/msword Size: 1528320 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 15:07:01 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 07:07:01 +1200 Subject: [governance] Network Neutrality/ Was Business Class for Human Rights? Message-ID: Dear All, Apologies Wolfgang for changing the subject to Net Neutrality. I am mindful that the European Commission has opened public consultation on the preservation of the "open internet", see: http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/12/817&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en This closes on the 15th October, 2012. On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 4:24 AM, "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" < wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de> wrote: > Will the ETNO/WCIT proposal lead to a mechanism where we have different > classes for use of the human right to freedom of expression and to > communicate? And even more: If you introduce a "business class" you have to > introduce a checkpoint to seperate business from eceonomy and this can be > done only via content control and DPI and leads directly to censorship. Any > comments? > > > http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57501754-38/euro-isps-defend-new-fees-as-business-class-internet-q-a/ > > Wolfgang > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 16:16:38 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 08:16:38 +1200 Subject: [governance] Freedom of Expression #FoX #FoE #Yemen #Libya Message-ID: Dear All, International law is clear about Freedom of Expression not being an unfettered right as espoused within these laws themselves and has been discussed at great length on the list numerous times over. I was also saddened that the irresponsible production of "content" was used to enflame tension and accelerate unrest and cause a massive revolt amongst those that were deeply offended by it. There is a piece written by Aldo, see: http://www.diplomacy.edu/blog/168-%E2%80%93-i%E2%80%99m-deeply-saddened-today Kind Regards, -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 17:08:02 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 00:08:02 +0300 Subject: [governance] Markey Introduces Mobile Privacy Bill Message-ID: http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/249055-markey-introduces-mobile-privacy-bill An interesting development. Fahd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From caribe at entropia.blog.br Thu Sep 13 18:30:41 2012 From: caribe at entropia.blog.br (Joao Carlos Caribe) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 19:30:41 -0300 Subject: [governance] =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?The_world=92s_first_bill_of_interne?= =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?t_rights?= Message-ID: <4D450DFE-FE40-42C3-AA7A-3C94C56D5F21@entropia.blog.br> Dear Colleagues, This text is about the "Marco Civil da Internet" from Brazil that I developed with Marta Cooper http://uncut.indexoncensorship.org/2012/09/brazil-marco-civil-internet/ Enjoy -- João Carlos Caribé Publicitário e Consultor de mídias sociais http://entropia.blog.br caribe at entropia.blog.br twitter @caribe / skype joaocaribe (21) 8761 1967 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From kovenronald at aol.com Thu Sep 13 19:15:14 2012 From: kovenronald at aol.com (Koven Ronald) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 19:15:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [governance] =?UTF-8?Q?The_world=E2=80=99s_first_bill_of_inte?= =?UTF-8?Q?rnet_rights?= In-Reply-To: <4D450DFE-FE40-42C3-AA7A-3C94C56D5F21@entropia.blog.br> References: <4D450DFE-FE40-42C3-AA7A-3C94C56D5F21@entropia.blog.br> Message-ID: <8CF601CC3F68D94-10B0-2A024@webmail-m096.sysops.aol.com> What is the actual text of the Brazilian Internet Bill of Rights ? It's not attached to the article on the link. Bests, Rony Koven -----Original Message----- From: Joao Carlos Caribe To: governance Sent: Fri, Sep 14, 2012 12:36 am Subject: [governance] The world’s first bill of internet rights Dear Colleagues, This text is about the "Marco Civil da Internet" from Brazil that I developed with Marta Cooper http://uncut.indexoncensorship.org/2012/09/brazil-marco-civil-internet/ Enjoy -- João Carlos Caribé Publicitário e Consultor de mídias sociais http://entropia.blog.br caribe at entropia.blog.br twitter @caribe / skype joaocaribe (21) 8761 1967 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From cveraq at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 19:57:10 2012 From: cveraq at gmail.com (Carlos Vera Quintana) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 18:57:10 -0500 Subject: [governance] =?UTF-8?Q?The_world=E2=80=99s_first_bill_of_inte?= =?UTF-8?Q?rnet_rights?= In-Reply-To: <4D450DFE-FE40-42C3-AA7A-3C94C56D5F21@entropia.blog.br> References: <4D450DFE-FE40-42C3-AA7A-3C94C56D5F21@entropia.blog.br> Message-ID: Ecuador has this in the 2008 Constitution Carlos Vera Enviado desde mi iPhone El 13/09/2012, a las 17:30, Joao Carlos Caribe escribió: > Dear Colleagues, > > This text is about the "Marco Civil da Internet" from Brazil that I developed with Marta Cooper > http://uncut.indexoncensorship.org/2012/09/brazil-marco-civil-internet/ > > Enjoy > -- > João Carlos Caribé > Publicitário e Consultor de mídias sociais > http://entropia.blog.br > caribe at entropia.blog.br > twitter @caribe / skype joaocaribe > (21) 8761 1967 > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From caribe at entropia.blog.br Thu Sep 13 20:45:36 2012 From: caribe at entropia.blog.br (Joao Carlos Caribe) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 21:45:36 -0300 Subject: [governance] =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?The_world=92s_first_bill_of_int?= =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?ernet_rights?= In-Reply-To: <8CF601CC3F68D94-10B0-2A024@webmail-m096.sysops.aol.com> References: <4D450DFE-FE40-42C3-AA7A-3C94C56D5F21@entropia.blog.br> <8CF601CC3F68D94-10B0-2A024@webmail-m096.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: The actual text is here http://www.molon1313.com.br/relatorio-marco-civil-da-internet/ Em 13/09/2012, às 20:15, Koven Ronald escreveu: > What is the actual text of the Brazilian Internet Bill of Rights ? It's not attached to the article on the link. > > Bests, Rony Koven > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joao Carlos Caribe > To: governance > Sent: Fri, Sep 14, 2012 12:36 am > Subject: [governance] The world’s first bill of internet rights > > Dear Colleagues, > > This text is about the "Marco Civil da Internet" from Brazil that I developed with Marta Cooper > http://uncut.indexoncensorship.org/2012/09/brazil-marco-civil-internet/ > > Enjoy > -- > João Carlos Caribé > Publicitário e Consultor de mídias sociais > http://entropia.blog.br > caribe at entropia.blog.br > twitter @caribe / skype joaocaribe > (21) 8761 1967 > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -- João Carlos Caribé Publicitário e Consultor de mídias sociais http://entropia.blog.br caribe at entropia.blog.br twitter @caribe / skype joaocaribe (21) 8761 1967 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From caribe at entropia.blog.br Thu Sep 13 20:48:22 2012 From: caribe at entropia.blog.br (Joao Carlos Caribe) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 21:48:22 -0300 Subject: [governance] =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?The_world=92s_first_bill_of_int?= =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?ernet_rights?= In-Reply-To: References: <4D450DFE-FE40-42C3-AA7A-3C94C56D5F21@entropia.blog.br> Message-ID: <122DBABD-E92F-4E6C-8F06-9C2D10CA97EE@entropia.blog.br> Cool! Can you share with us? The existence of this rights on the Internet on one constitution, must be an interesting fact to share to world. So the Iceland are developing something like that. Regards, Joao Carlos Caribe Em 13/09/2012, às 20:57, Carlos Vera Quintana escreveu: > Ecuador has this in the 2008 Constitution > > Carlos Vera > > Enviado desde mi iPhone > > El 13/09/2012, a las 17:30, Joao Carlos Caribe escribió: > >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> This text is about the "Marco Civil da Internet" from Brazil that I developed with Marta Cooper >> http://uncut.indexoncensorship.org/2012/09/brazil-marco-civil-internet/ >> >> Enjoy >> -- >> João Carlos Caribé >> Publicitário e Consultor de mídias sociais >> http://entropia.blog.br >> caribe at entropia.blog.br >> twitter @caribe / skype joaocaribe >> (21) 8761 1967 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -- João Carlos Caribé Publicitário e Consultor de mídias sociais http://entropia.blog.br caribe at entropia.blog.br twitter @caribe / skype joaocaribe (21) 8761 1967 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From gurstein at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 21:15:54 2012 From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 03:15:54 +0200 Subject: [governance] FW: [TriumphOfContent] Worried government moves to block anti-Islam film In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <006601cd9216$7ecb4940$7c61dbc0$@gmail.com> Asymmetries in action. global reach, national response. Who you gonna call. M From: TriumphOfContent at yahoogroups.com [mailto:TriumphOfContent at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anjana Basu Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 2:55 AM Subject: [TriumphOfContent] Worried government moves to block anti-Islam film Worried government moves to block anti-Islam film TNN | Sep 14, 2012, 04.17AM IST NEW DELHI: Apprehending disturbances over a controversial anti-Islam movie that sparked massive anti-US protests in Libya, Egypt and Yemen, the government on Thursday asked Google to block 11 URLs of the popular video site YouTube containing objectionable excerpts from the film. The US-based Google, which owns YouTube, is likely to ban these URLs soon. "A request to Google was made acting on the request of the Jammu & Kashmir government which forwarded a court order for getting those web pages removed as soon as possible," said a home ministry official. He said the request had been sent by the department of telecommunication through the director general of Computer Emergency Response Team India(CERT-In) for immediate action. As reports came in of Afghanistan and Pakistan also blocking access to these sites, Google in a statement said, "We work hard to create a community everyone can enjoy and which also enables people to express different opinions. This can be a challenge because what's OK in one country can be offensive elsewhere. This video - which is widely available on the Web - is clearly within our guidelines and so will stay on YouTube. However, given the very difficult situation in Libya and Egypt we have temporarily restricted access in both countries." Government has already beefed up security at the US embassy and four of its consulates - Mumbai, Kolkata, Chennai and Hyderabad. The five US diplomatic missions are being provided round-the-clock security. Times View Internet search engines and social media platforms need to exhibit a greater awareness of varying cultural sensibilities given the fact that their reach extends to the whole world. Sticking to the letter of the law may be a tenable legal position, but they must take into account the consequences of doing so. Where waiting for the legal process to unfold or for governments to ask them to take something off the net can mean several lives getting lost or communities and nations getting pitted against each other, they must show more common sense and act before they are asked to do so. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Worried-government-moves-to-block-a nti-Islam-film/articleshow/16390107.cms __._,_.___ Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (1) Recent Activity: Visit Your Group Yahoo! Groups Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest . Unsubscribe . Terms of Use . __,_._,___ !DSPAM:2676,5052807525488915244179! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 21:22:13 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 13:22:13 +1200 Subject: [governance] Re: Freedom of Expression #FoX #FoE #Yemen #Libya In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sadly, two more lives have been claimed because of "hate speech"Statement on the Deaths of Tyrone S. Woods and Glen A. Doherty in Benghazi, Libya Press Statement Hillary Rodham Clinton Secretary of State Washington, DC September 13, 2012 ------------------------------ The attack on our diplomatic post in Benghazi, Libya on Tuesday claimed the lives of four Americans. Yesterday, I spoke about two: Ambassador Chris Stevens and Information Management Officer Sean Smith. Today, we also recognize the two security personnel who died helping protect their colleagues. Tyrone S. Woods and Glen A. Doherty were both decorated military veterans who served our country with honor and distinction. Our thoughts, prayers, and deepest gratitude are with their families and friends. Our embassies could not carry on our critical work around the world without the service and sacrifice of brave people like Tyrone and Glen. Tyrone’s friends and colleagues called him “Rone,” and they relied on his courage and skill, honed over two decades as a Navy SEAL. In uniform, he served multiple tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. Since 2010, he protected American diplomatic personnel in dangerous posts from Central America to the Middle East. He had the hands of a healer as well as the arm of a warrior, earning distinction as a registered nurse and certified paramedic. All our hearts go out to Tyrone’s wife Dorothy and his three sons, Tyrone Jr., Hunter, and Kai, who was born just a few months ago. We also grieve for Glen Doherty, called Bub, and his family: his father Bernard, his mother Barbara, his brother Gregory, and his sister Kathleen. Glen was also a former Navy SEAL and an experienced paramedic. And he put his life on the line many times, protecting Americans in Iraq, Afghanistan, and other hotspots. In the end, he died the way he lived – with selfless honor and unstinting valor. We condemn the attack that took the lives of these heroes in the strongest terms, and we are taking additional steps to safeguard American embassies, consulates, and citizens around the world. This violence should shock the conscience of people of all faiths and traditions. We appreciate the statements of support that have poured in from across the region and beyond. People of conscience and goodwill everywhere must stand together in these difficult days against violence, hate, and division. I am enormously proud of the men and women who risk their lives every day in the service of our country and our values. They help make the United States the greatest force for peace, progress, and human dignity that the world has ever known. We honor the memory of our fallen colleagues by continuing their work and carrying on the best traditions of a bold and generous nation. PRN: 2012/1440 On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 8:16 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear All, > > International law is clear about Freedom of Expression not being an > unfettered right as espoused within these laws themselves and has been > discussed at great length on the list numerous times over. I was also > saddened that the irresponsible production of "content" was used to enflame > tension and accelerate unrest and cause a massive revolt amongst those that > were deeply offended by it. > > There is a piece written by Aldo, see: > http://www.diplomacy.edu/blog/168-%E2%80%93-i%E2%80%99m-deeply-saddened-today > > > Kind Regards, > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From vanda at uol.com.br Thu Sep 13 21:36:32 2012 From: vanda at uol.com.br (Vanda UOL) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 22:36:32 -0300 Subject: RES: [governance] =?UTF-8?Q?The_world=E2=80=99s_first_bill_of_int?= =?UTF-8?Q?ernet_rights?= In-Reply-To: References: <4D450DFE-FE40-42C3-AA7A-3C94C56D5F21@entropia.blog.br> Message-ID: <002201cd9219$60af6ec0$220e4c40$@uol.com.br> Good to know that Carlos. De: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] Em nome de Carlos Vera Quintana Enviada em: quinta-feira, 13 de setembro de 2012 20:57 Para: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Joao Carlos Caribe Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org Assunto: Re: [governance] The world’s first bill of internet rights Ecuador has this in the 2008 Constitution Carlos Vera Enviado desde mi iPhone El 13/09/2012, a las 17:30, Joao Carlos Caribe escribió: Dear Colleagues, This text is about the "Marco Civil da Internet" from Brazil that I developed with Marta Cooper http://uncut.indexoncensorship.org/2012/09/brazil-marco-civil-internet/ Enjoy -- João Carlos Caribé Publicitário e Consultor de mídias sociais http://entropia.blog.br caribe at entropia.blog.br twitter @caribe / skype joaocaribe (21) 8761 1967 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ivarhartmann at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 21:39:05 2012 From: ivarhartmann at gmail.com (Ivar A. M. Hartmann) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 22:39:05 -0300 Subject: [governance] =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?The_world=92s_first_bill_of_int?= =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?ernet_rights?= In-Reply-To: <8CF601CC3F68D94-10B0-2A024@webmail-m096.sysops.aol.com> References: <4D450DFE-FE40-42C3-AA7A-3C94C56D5F21@entropia.blog.br> <8CF601CC3F68D94-10B0-2A024@webmail-m096.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Dear Koven I participated in a group effort over a year ago to fully translate the draft framework to English. The version that was translated is now somewhat outdated, but the overall organization of the bill, the themes covered and even most of the articles remain unchanged. You'll find it attached. There's also an good article by Carlos Affonso (list member) briefly describing the bill and how it was created. See here . Carlos, to your point about Ecuador already having established this in its Constitution: this piece of legislation that we're currently hoping will be voted by the Brazilian Congress contains both a bill of rights *and *a legal framework. While it's true that Ecuador (and other countries) have ICT-related rights enshrined in their Constitutions - and even art. 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights could be described as one - Brazil will soon be the first country to adopt a detailed legal framework for the enjoyment of internet-related rights. Just to give and example: it mentions, among other issues, net neutrality, which is not present in the Ecuador Constitution. But above all, what sets the Civil Rights Framework for the Internet in Brazil is the decentralized, collaborative and multistakeholder fashion by way of which it was conceived. Best regards, Ivar On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 8:15 PM, Koven Ronald wrote: > What is the actual text of the Brazilian Internet Bill of Rights ? It's > not attached to the article on the link. > > Bests, Rony Koven > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joao Carlos Caribe > To: governance > Sent: Fri, Sep 14, 2012 12:36 am > Subject: [governance] The world’s first bill of internet rights > > Dear Colleagues, > > This text is about the "Marco Civil da Internet" from Brazil that I > developed with Marta Cooper > http://uncut.indexoncensorship.org/2012/09/brazil-marco-civil-internet/ > > Enjoy > -- > João Carlos Caribé > Publicitário e Consultor de mídias sociais > http://entropia.blog.br > caribe at entropia.blog.br > twitter @caribe / skype joaocaribe > (21) 8761 1967 > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Marco Civil - English Version sept2011.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 128411 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 22:05:11 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 07:35:11 +0530 Subject: [governance] FW: [TriumphOfContent] Worried government moves to block anti-Islam film In-Reply-To: <006601cd9216$7ecb4940$7c61dbc0$@gmail.com> References: <006601cd9216$7ecb4940$7c61dbc0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: "Tor". It'll still spread; the blocking measures are superficial. -C On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 6:45 AM, michael gurstein wrote: > Asymmetries in action… global reach, national response… Who you gonna call… > **** > > ** ** > > M**** > > ** ** > > *From:* TriumphOfContent at yahoogroups.com [mailto: > TriumphOfContent at yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Anjana Basu > *Sent:* Friday, September 14, 2012 2:55 AM > *Subject:* [TriumphOfContent] Worried government moves to block > anti-Islam film**** > > ** ** > > **** > Worried government moves to block anti-Islam film**** > > TNN | Sep 14, 2012, 04.17AM IST **** > > ** ** > > NEW DELHI: Apprehending disturbances over a controversial anti-Islam movie > that sparked massive anti-US protests in Libya, Egypt > andYemen , the > government on Thursday asked Google to block 11 URLs of the popular video > site YouTube containing > objectionable excerpts from the film. The US-based Google, which owns > YouTube, is likely to ban these URLs soon. > > "A request to Google was made acting on the request of the Jammu & Kashmir > government which forwarded a court order for getting those web pages > removed as soon as possible," said a home ministry official. He said the > request had been sent by the department of telecommunication through the > director general of Computer Emergency Response Team India(CERT-In) > for immediate action. > > As reports came in of Afghanistan > and Pakistan also > blocking access to these sites, Google in a statement said, "We work hard > to create a community everyone can enjoy and which also enables people to > express different opinions. This can be a challenge because what's OK in > one country can be offensive elsewhere. This video — which is widely > available on the Web — is clearly within our guidelines and so will stay on > YouTube. However, given the very difficult situation in Libya and > Egypt we have temporarily restricted access in both countries." > > Government has already beefed up security at the US embassy and four of > its consulates — Mumbai, Kolkata, Chennai and Hyderabad. The five US > diplomatic missions are being provided round-the-clock security. > > *Times View* > > Internet search engines and social media platforms need to exhibit a > greater awareness of varying cultural sensibilities given the fact that > their reach extends to the whole world. Sticking to the letter of the law > may be a tenable legal position, but they must take into account the > consequences of doing so. Where waiting for the legal process to unfold or > for governments to ask them to take something off the net can mean several > lives getting lost or communities and nations getting pitted against each > other, they must show more common sense and act before they are asked to do > so.**** > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Worried-government-moves-to-block-anti-Islam-film/articleshow/16390107.cms > **** > > __._,_.___**** > > Reply to *sender*| Reply > to *group*| Reply > *via web post*| > *Start a New Topic* > **** > > Messages in this topic( > *1*) **** > > *Recent Activity:* **** > > Visit Your Group > **** > > [image: Yahoo! Groups] > **** > > Switch to: Text-Only, > Daily Digest• > Unsubscribe• Terms > of Use **** > > .**** > > **** > > __,_._,___**** > > !DSPAM:2676,5052807525488915244179! **** > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From george.sadowsky at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 22:22:22 2012 From: george.sadowsky at gmail.com (George Sadowsky) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 19:22:22 -0700 Subject: [governance] Fwd: SILK COP post - Looking for someone to fill a position in Cambodia (with attachment) References: <014801cd911b$7225d940$56718bc0$@internautconsulting.com> Message-ID: <03CB78FF-D468-40DB-B5BD-EACFBE474353@gmail.com> Anyone interested? Reply directly to Jonathan Begin forwarded message: > From: Jonathan Peizer > Date: September 12, 2012 12:18:47 PM PDT > To: George Sadowsky > Subject: FW: SILK COP post - Looking for someone to fill a position in Cambodia (with attachment) > > George, > > Long time no speak -- hope you and yours are well. > > Am looking for someone for a 3 year position heading up a social media / social innovation project in Cambodia for a large USAID funded project. > > Know of anyone that might fit this bill? > > RGDS > > JP > > > > Better Strategies for Better Outcomes > Jonathan Peizer > President > Internaut Consulting / Greentealovers > 850 Napoleon Street > Woodmere, NY 11598 > jpeizer at internautconsulting.com > http://internautconsulting.com > tel: > fax: > mobile: > Skype/Twitter: > (516) 374-6538 > (516) 374-6538 > (646) 706-2678 > jpeizer > Want to always have my latest info? > > Follow me on: FACEBOOK TWITTER LINKEDIN PHILANTHERAPY BLOG > > Want to learn how to implement ICT for social change? http://technologyforsocialchange.org > > Looking for NGO capacity resources? http://capaciteria.org > > Need something healthy, tasty and calming? http://greentealovers.com > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 13721 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EWMI_Chief of Party (COP).docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 42134 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From cveraq at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 22:43:26 2012 From: cveraq at gmail.com (Carlos Vera Quintana) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 21:43:26 -0500 Subject: [governance] =?UTF-8?Q?The_world=E2=80=99s_first_bill_of_inte?= =?UTF-8?Q?rnet_rights?= In-Reply-To: References: <4D450DFE-FE40-42C3-AA7A-3C94C56D5F21@entropia.blog.br> <8CF601CC3F68D94-10B0-2A024@webmail-m096.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <36D1F72E-73BF-43D0-8F89-4F7C810D4830@gmail.com> Very Interesting. Of course a Constitution is not to contain details such as net neutrality or similar. This is for lower level legal bodies. Very interesting initiative but my point is if the objective is to be the "first" obvious not so let's concentrate on the core of the initiative not in the envelope Carlos Enviado desde mi iPhone El 13/09/2012, a las 20:39, "Ivar A. M. Hartmann" escribió: > Dear Koven > > I participated in a group effort over a year ago to fully translate the draft framework to English. The version that was translated is now somewhat outdated, but the overall organization of the bill, the themes covered and even most of the articles remain unchanged. You'll find it attached. > > There's also an good article by Carlos Affonso (list member) briefly describing the bill and how it was created. See here. > > Carlos, to your point about Ecuador already having established this in its Constitution: this piece of legislation that we're currently hoping will be voted by the Brazilian Congress contains both a bill of rights and a legal framework. While it's true that Ecuador (and other countries) have ICT-related rights enshrined in their Constitutions - and even art. 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights could be described as one - Brazil will soon be the first country to adopt a detailed legal framework for the enjoyment of internet-related rights. Just to give and example: it mentions, among other issues, net neutrality, which is not present in the Ecuador Constitution. > > But above all, what sets the Civil Rights Framework for the Internet in Brazil is the decentralized, collaborative and multistakeholder fashion by way of which it was conceived. > > Best regards, > Ivar > > On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 8:15 PM, Koven Ronald wrote: > What is the actual text of the Brazilian Internet Bill of Rights ? It's not attached to the article on the link. > > Bests, Rony Koven > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joao Carlos Caribe > To: governance > Sent: Fri, Sep 14, 2012 12:36 am > Subject: [governance] The world’s first bill of internet rights > > Dear Colleagues, > > This text is about the "Marco Civil da Internet" from Brazil that I developed with Marta Cooper > http://uncut.indexoncensorship.org/2012/09/brazil-marco-civil-internet/ > > Enjoy > -- > João Carlos Caribé > Publicitário e Consultor de mídias sociais > http://entropia.blog.br > caribe at entropia.blog.br > twitter @caribe / skype joaocaribe > (21) 8761 1967 > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From nhklein at gmx.net Thu Sep 13 22:53:48 2012 From: nhklein at gmx.net (Norbert Klein) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 09:53:48 +0700 Subject: [governance] =?UTF-8?Q?The_world=E2=80=99s_first_bill_of_inte?= =?UTF-8?Q?rnet_rights?= In-Reply-To: <4D450DFE-FE40-42C3-AA7A-3C94C56D5F21@entropia.blog.br> References: <4D450DFE-FE40-42C3-AA7A-3C94C56D5F21@entropia.blog.br> Message-ID: <50529C3C.5000600@gmx.net> Thanks a lot, muito obrigado, Please have a look: The world’s first bill of internet rights - in Brazil http://www.isoc-kh.org/?p=333 I put it up, because we are under a very different direction. Norbert Klein nhklein at gmx.net http://www.thinking21.org President - ISOC Cambodia Chapter president at isoc-kh.org http://www.isoc-kh.org = = On 9/14/2012 5:30 AM, Joao Carlos Caribe wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > This text is about the "Marco Civil da Internet" from Brazil that I > developed with Marta Cooper > http://uncut.indexoncensorship.org/2012/09/brazil-marco-civil-internet/ > > Enjoy > -- > João Carlos Caribé > Publicitário e Consultor de mídias sociais > http://entropia.blog.br > caribe at entropia.blog.br > twitter @caribe / skype joaocaribe > (21) 8761 1967 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From nhklein at gmx.net Thu Sep 13 22:59:14 2012 From: nhklein at gmx.net (Norbert Klein) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 09:59:14 +0700 Subject: [governance] =?UTF-8?Q?The_world=E2=80=99s_first_bill_of_inte?= =?UTF-8?Q?rnet_rights?= In-Reply-To: References: <4D450DFE-FE40-42C3-AA7A-3C94C56D5F21@entropia.blog.br> Message-ID: <50529D82.9020701@gmx.net> On 9/14/2012 6:57 AM, Carlos Vera Quintana wrote: > Ecuador has this in the 2008 Constitution > > Carlos Vera > > Enviado desde mi iPhone Carlos, could you please share this section of the 2008 Constitution of Ecuador, in the original Spanish (and if there is a translation, that would also be OK in addition). Thanks, Norbert -- Norbert Klein nhklein at gmx.net http://www.thinking21.org President - ISOC Cambodia Chapter president at isoc-kh.org http://www.isoc-kh.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From cveraq at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 23:20:26 2012 From: cveraq at gmail.com (Carlos Vera Quintana) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 22:20:26 -0500 Subject: [governance] =?UTF-8?Q?The_world=E2=80=99s_first_bill_of_inte?= =?UTF-8?Q?rnet_rights?= In-Reply-To: <122DBABD-E92F-4E6C-8F06-9C2D10CA97EE@entropia.blog.br> References: <4D450DFE-FE40-42C3-AA7A-3C94C56D5F21@entropia.blog.br> <122DBABD-E92F-4E6C-8F06-9C2D10CA97EE@entropia.blog.br> Message-ID: <4220BBF1-DBB2-453C-A6AB-613638250552@gmail.com> You can find the Ecuadorian Constitution in www.asambleanacional.gob.ec Carlos Enviado desde mi iPhone El 13/09/2012, a las 19:48, Joao Carlos Caribe escribió: > Cool! > > Can you share with us? The existence of this rights on the Internet on one constitution, must be an interesting fact to share to world. So the Iceland are developing something like that. > > > Regards, > > Joao Carlos Caribe > Em 13/09/2012, às 20:57, Carlos Vera Quintana escreveu: > >> Ecuador has this in the 2008 Constitution >> >> Carlos Vera >> >> Enviado desde mi iPhone >> >> El 13/09/2012, a las 17:30, Joao Carlos Caribe escribió: >> >>> Dear Colleagues, >>> >>> This text is about the "Marco Civil da Internet" from Brazil that I developed with Marta Cooper >>> http://uncut.indexoncensorship.org/2012/09/brazil-marco-civil-internet/ >>> >>> Enjoy >>> -- >>> João Carlos Caribé >>> Publicitário e Consultor de mídias sociais >>> http://entropia.blog.br >>> caribe at entropia.blog.br >>> twitter @caribe / skype joaocaribe >>> (21) 8761 1967 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >>> To be removed from the list, visit: >>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >>> >>> For all other list information and functions, see: >>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >>> >>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Fri Sep 14 01:24:26 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 17:24:26 +1200 Subject: [governance] LAST FRIENDLY REMINDER Evaluating the IGC [Survey 1 of 2012] Message-ID: Dear All, This is the last Friendly reminder that we will be closing the Survey in 8 hours time. *Visit*: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/IGCEvaluation For those of you who have yet to fill the Survey, please try and fill it in. For those who have already, thank you for taking the time to send us your feedback. Kind Regards, Sala On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 6:50 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear All, > > This is a friendly reminder that we will be closing the Survey soon and it > is important for you to have your say in assessing whether the IGC is > meeting its objectives under the Charter. > > This Survey will run till the 13th September, 2012. Thank you to those who > have filled in the Survey. For those that have yet to do so, please take > the time to fill it: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/IGCEvaluation > > Kind Regards, > Sala > > On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 10:55 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < > salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Dear All, >> >> This survey is designed to extract feedback from the IGC. It is designed >> to evaluate how the IGC is facilitating the Objectives under the >> Charter.There are 10 questions. The Survey will run from the 6th >> September, 2012 to the 13th September, 2012. >> >> You can access the Survey via >> https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/IGCEvaluation >> >> I encourage everyone to find time to complete this Survey. >> >> I would also like to acknowledge and thank Chaitanya Dhareshwar one of >> our new subscribers to the IGC from India for volunteering to put the >> questions into the Survey Monkey. >> >> Kind Regards >> >> -- >> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala >> P.O. Box 17862 >> Suva >> Fiji >> >> Twitter: @SalanietaT >> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro >> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From parminder at itforchange.net Fri Sep 14 01:31:50 2012 From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 11:01:50 +0530 Subject: [governance] LAST FRIENDLY REMINDER Evaluating the IGC [Survey 1 of 2012] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5052C146.6090401@itforchange.net> Sala Is there any way you could extend it by a few days.... (Also want to know how many responses are in already). I am out and not able to fill it in right away but would like to do over the weekend... maybe there are a few others who may have a little more time over the weekend... parminder On Friday 14 September 2012 10:54 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote: > Dear All, > > This is the last Friendly reminder that we will be closing the Survey > in 8 hours time. > > /Visit/: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/IGCEvaluation > > For those of you who have yet to fill the Survey, please try and fill > it in. For those who have already, thank you for taking the time to > send us your feedback. > > > Kind Regards, > Sala > On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 6:50 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro > > wrote: > > Dear All, > > This is a friendly reminder that we will be closing the Survey > soon and it is important for you to have your say in assessing > whether the IGC is meeting its objectives under the Charter. > > This Survey will run till the 13th September, 2012. Thank you to > those who have filled in the Survey. For those that have yet to do > so, please take the time to fill it: > https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/IGCEvaluation > > Kind Regards, > Sala > > On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 10:55 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro > > wrote: > > Dear All, > > This survey is designed to extract feedback from the IGC. It > is designed to evaluate how the IGC is facilitating the > Objectives under the Charter.There are 10 questions. The > Survey will run from the 6th September, 2012 to the 13th > September, 2012. > > You can access the Survey via > https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/IGCEvaluation > > I encourage everyone to find time to complete this Survey. > > I would also like to acknowledge and thank Chaitanya > Dhareshwar one of our new subscribers to the IGC from India > for volunteering to put the questions into the Survey Monkey. > > Kind Regards > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Fri Sep 14 01:50:12 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 17:50:12 +1200 Subject: [governance] EXTENSION Evaluating the IGC [Survey 1 of 2012] Message-ID: Dear All, Following requests to extend the Survey to enable subscribers to evaluate the IGC, we will extend this Survey for another 4 days. Kindly disregard the Friendly Last Reminder notification. I regret the inconvenience. *Visit*: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/IGCEvaluation You are encouraged to evaluate the IGC as your perspective and feedback matters. For your general information, we have received 24 completed survey forms. Kind Regards, Sala -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 12:05:17 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 19:05:17 +0300 Subject: [governance] TPP: A Worldwide Corporate Power Grab of Enormous Proportions Message-ID: <5052043D.8090806@gmail.com> TPP: A Worldwide Corporate Power Grab of Enormous Proportions By Laurel Sutherlin, The Understory 12 September 12 s international trade negotiators gathered this week at a posh golf resort in rural Virginia to hammer out details of the proposed Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP), they sought to project an image of inclusion and receptivity to public input. In reality, this high-stakes global corporate pact, now in its 14th round of discussions, is heavily guarded by paramilitary teams with machine guns and helicopters as it is developed behind closed doors under a dangerous and unprecedented veil of secrecy. What the hell is the TPP, you may ask? While it is among the largest and potentially most important 'free trade' agreements the world has ever seen, one can hardly be blamed for not being familiar with it yet. The corporate cabal behind it, including names like Cargill , Pfizer, Nike and WalMart, has done an exceptional job of maintaining an almost total lack of transparency as they literally design the future we will all inhabit. While 600 corporate lobbyists have been granted access and input on the draft texts from the beginning, even high-ranking members of Congress have been denied access to the most basic content of what US negotiators are proposing in our names. Demand transparency now! Write to US trade representative Ron Kirk and lead Cargil trade lobbyist Devry Boughner to demand they make the text public . Thankfully, draft texts of the proposal have appeared on Wikileaks and the website of Citizen's Trade Campaign . It is difficult to overstate the potential implications on the lives of people around the world if anything like the agreement in these leaked documents were to be implemented with the force of law. The TPP is called a 'trade agreement,' but in actuality it is a long-dreamed-of template for implementing a binding system of global corporate governance as bold as anything the world's wealthiest elite has attempted before. Of the 26 chapters under negotiation, only a few have to do directly with trade. The other chapters enshrine new rights and privileges for major corporations while weakening the power of nation states to oppose them. The TPP essentially proposes to establish a parallel system of justice where companies can sue countries in a tribunal of judges composed of unaccountable international trade lawyers with little to no process for appeal. This wild bastardization of the concept of justice endangers everything from affordable medicines, internet freedoms and intellectual property rights to democratically enacted labor laws and environmental protections. And that's not to mention the massive outsourcing of middle class jobs from the US to countries like Vietnam and Brunei. This isn't just a bad trade agreement, it's a wish list of the 1%---a worldwide corporate power grab of enormous proportions. This week, in an empty warehouse on the outskirts of downtown Baltimore, a group of activists from around the US gathered to plan a spirited week of resistance to the TPP. Finally, after three years of secret negotiations, the momentum of an opposition movement is building. On Sunday, a diverse and raucous crowd of a couple hundred people descended on this exclusive golf resort to demand their voices be heard , chanting after each speaker: "Flush the TPP!" NAFTA was the last straw that sent the Zapatistas into armed rebellion. The WTO negotiations spawned a robust and global anti-globalization movement the likes of which the world had never seen. Even after 9/11, the FTAA elicited a pushback of people power that even a fully militarized Miami police force could not completely suppress. But near as I can tell, even though the TPP is bigger, bolder and badder than any trade agreement before it, the small group gathered this week on a grassy hillside in rural Virginia is the backbone of resistance to the TPP today. The elements are there: a diverse coalition of wonky NGOs, social justice and trade policy experts, urban anarchists, Occupiers and suburban activists painting banners and scheming pranks---labor leaders, environmental groups and representatives from Mexico, Peru and beyond, but the scale is so far totally out of proportion to the threat we're facing. But this is beginning to change. Speakers at Sunday's rally included key labor leaders from the Teamsters, and the Communications Workers of America joined with the leaders of environmental groups from the Sierra Club, Friends of the Earth and Rainforest Action Network. The TPP was conceived under the second Bush administration, but it has been embraced and nurtured into maturity under Obama's watch. The widespread belief among people here opposing it is that the current Administration is in a race to finish much of the negotiations while they can bank on the fact that labor leaders and environmental and human rights advocates will shy away from challenging a democratic president in an election year. Free trade agreements are particularly unpopular in the key swing states Obama needs to win this election---making right now a crucial moment of opportunity to pull the TPP out of the shadows and leverage our combined political power to kill it before it takes root any deeper. Stay tuned, one way or another history will be made in the coming months and the outcome will forever influence how our communities and countries relate to each other in an ever-shrinking world. Flush the TPP! http://readersupportednews.org/news-section2/318-66/13444-tpp-a-worldwide-corporate-power-grab-of-enormous-proportions -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: rsn-A.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 682 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Fri Sep 14 07:12:46 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 14:12:46 +0300 Subject: [governance] Freedom of Expression #FoX #FoE #Yemen #Libya In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: One thing I can assure you all - as a Muslim - that Islam condemns such acts of killing innocent souls. While the video against our Prophet Muhammed was not the right thing, neither were the reactions of killing innocent citizens and attacking diplomatic missions. Fahd On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:16 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear All, > > International law is clear about Freedom of Expression not being an > unfettered right as espoused within these laws themselves and has been > discussed at great length on the list numerous times over. I was also > saddened that the irresponsible production of "content" was used to enflame > tension and accelerate unrest and cause a massive revolt amongst those that > were deeply offended by it. > > There is a piece written by Aldo, see: > http://www.diplomacy.edu/blog/168-%E2%80%93-i%E2%80%99m-deeply-saddened-today > > > Kind Regards, > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From kovenronald at aol.com Fri Sep 14 08:10:52 2012 From: kovenronald at aol.com (Koven Ronald) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 08:10:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [governance] Freedom of Expression #FoX #FoE #Yemen #Libya In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CF60891E839C44-128C-60CD7@webmail-m155.sysops.aol.com> Dear Sala -- I was very bothered by this statement of yours justifying restrictions on freedom of expression. Of course, we all know that freedom of speech can't be absolute. But proclaiming that evident home truth in difficult contexts like the present crisis can only lend comfort to the restrictionists of freedom of expression. There is a generally accepted Anglo-Saxon legal dictum: "Hard cases make bad law." We seem to be confronted with just such a "hard case." Here is a NYTimes article today on the dilemma of major I'net service providers over stopping access to the offensive anti-Mohammed film: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/14/technology/google-blocks-inflammatory-video-in-egypt-and-libya.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20120914 The article reflects the understandably ambivalent responses of free speech advocates to this crisis. The issue should be approached in a more nuanced way than merely noting that freedom of expression isn't absolute. It seems to me that a more helpful approach, for example, is to note that incitement to violence with the likelihood that the violence will ensue is not legal anywhere, including under the anti-restrictionist US First Amendment. One could argue that the film in question is just such an incitement -- and that its producers likely knew that to be the case. That would put a rather different light on restricting access to the film than simply making a blanket statement to the effect that freedom of expression is not absolute. Best regards, Rony Koven, World Press Freedom Committee -----Original Message----- From: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro To: governance Sent: Thu, Sep 13, 2012 10:17 pm Subject: [governance] Freedom of Expression #FoX #FoE #Yemen #Libya Dear All, International law is clear about Freedom of Expression not being an unfettered right as espoused within these laws themselves and has been discussed at great length on the list numerous times over. I was also saddened that the irresponsible production of "content" was used to enflame tension and accelerate unrest and cause a massive revolt amongst those that were deeply offended by it. There is a piece written by Aldo, see: http://www.diplomacy.edu/blog/168-%E2%80%93-i%E2%80%99m-deeply-saddened-today Kind Regards, -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From william.drake at uzh.ch Fri Sep 14 08:37:22 2012 From: william.drake at uzh.ch (William Drake) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 14:37:22 +0200 Subject: [governance] Freedom of Expression #FoX #FoE #Yemen #Libya In-Reply-To: <8CF60891E839C44-128C-60CD7@webmail-m155.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CF60891E839C44-128C-60CD7@webmail-m155.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <12354DA3-7DCB-4952-8D32-AE6AAE7684E8@uzh.ch> On Sep 14, 2012, at 2:10 PM, Koven Ronald wrote: > It seems to me that a more helpful approach, for example, is to note that incitement to violence with the likelihood that the violence will ensue is not legal anywhere, including under the anti-restrictionist US First Amendment. One could argue that the film in question is just such an incitement -- and that its producers likely knew that to be the case. That would put a rather different light on restricting access to the film than simply making a blanket statement to the effect that freedom of expression is not absolute. To repeat what I said a bit ago on another list, I was intrigued yesterday to see Jane Harman, former heavyweight Congressperson on Internet issues and now head of the Woodrow Wilson Center in DC, suggesting that the film could meet the criteria for Incitement to violence and thus be banned within the US on the grounds it falls under the exceptions to protected speech. I've not heard many US politicians, particularly from her side of the aisle, take that line on Internet speech issues before. Do we have any lawyers here who know whether that could be a plausible line of action? Is this an argument that's gathering steam, Rony? Bill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From kovenronald at aol.com Fri Sep 14 08:45:19 2012 From: kovenronald at aol.com (Koven Ronald) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 08:45:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [governance] Freedom of Expression #FoX #FoE #Yemen #Libya In-Reply-To: <12354DA3-7DCB-4952-8D32-AE6AAE7684E8@uzh.ch> References: <8CF60891E839C44-128C-60CD7@webmail-m155.sysops.aol.com> <12354DA3-7DCB-4952-8D32-AE6AAE7684E8@uzh.ch> Message-ID: <8CF608DEE7E8512-128C-60F67@webmail-m155.sysops.aol.com> Dear Bill -- I wasn't aware of Jane Harman's statement but am gratified to see that approach make headway. Bests, Rony -----Original Message----- From: William Drake To: governance ; Koven Ronald Sent: Fri, Sep 14, 2012 2:37 pm Subject: Re: [governance] Freedom of Expression #FoX #FoE #Yemen #Libya On Sep 14, 2012, at 2:10 PM, Koven Ronald wrote: It seems to me that a more helpful approach, for example, is to note that incitement to violence with the likelihood that the violence will ensue is not legal anywhere, including under the anti-restrictionist US First Amendment. One could argue that the film in question is just such an incitement -- and that its producers likely knew that to be the case. That would put a rather different light on restricting access to the film than simply making a blanket statement to the effect that freedom of expression is not absolute. To repeat what I said a bit ago on another list, I was intrigued yesterday to see Jane Harman, former heavyweight Congressperson on Internet issues and now head of the Woodrow Wilson Center in DC, suggesting that the film could meet the criteria for Incitement to violence and thus be banned within the US on the grounds it falls under the exceptions to protected speech. I've not heard many US politicians, particularly from her side of the aisle, take that line on Internet speech issues before. Do we have any lawyers here who know whether that could be a plausible line of action? Is this an argument that's gathering steam, Rony? Bill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From baudouin.schombe at gmail.com Fri Sep 14 10:42:08 2012 From: baudouin.schombe at gmail.com (Baudouin Schombe) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 15:42:08 +0100 Subject: [governance] EXTENSION Evaluating the IGC [Survey 1 of 2012] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sala apologize for now, I'm overwhelmed. This survey will be completed in a timely. Baudouin 2012/9/14 Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> > Dear All, > > Following requests to extend the Survey to enable subscribers to evaluate > the IGC, we will extend this Survey for another 4 days. Kindly disregard > the Friendly Last Reminder notification. I regret the inconvenience. > > *Visit*: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/IGCEvaluation > > You are encouraged to evaluate the IGC as your perspective and feedback > matters. For your general information, we have received 24 completed survey > forms. > > Kind Regards, > Sala > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN CENTRE AFRICAIN D'ECHANGE CULTUREL/ ACADEMIE DES TIC FACILITATEUR GAID/AFRIQUE Membre At-Large Member NCSG Member email:baudouin.schombe at gmail.com baudouin.schombe at ticafrica.net tél:+243998983491 skype:b.schombe wite web:http://webmail.ticafrica.net blog:http://akimambo.unblog.fr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From alice at apc.org Fri Sep 14 11:01:39 2012 From: alice at apc.org (Alice Munyua) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 18:01:39 +0300 Subject: [governance] ICANN Africa Strategy In-Reply-To: <8CF608DEE7E8512-128C-60F67@webmail-m155.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CF60891E839C44-128C-60CD7@webmail-m155.sysops.aol.com> <12354DA3-7DCB-4952-8D32-AE6AAE7684E8@uzh.ch> <8CF608DEE7E8512-128C-60F67@webmail-m155.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <505346D3.20305@apc.org> Dear Colleagues, During the ICANN Prague meeting an ICANN Africa Strategy working group (ASWG) was set up to develop a framework for ICANN's Africa strategy . The strategy will aim to support a stronger presence for ICANN in Africa and to increase African participation in ICANN as well as promote the multi-stakeholder model. This effort forms part of ICANN's global strategy with a special focus on developing countries. The group has now posted working documents for comments and contributions here: http://www.afrinic.net/en/community/icann-aswg Please visit and share your views. Best regards Alice Munyua -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From kovenronald at aol.com Fri Sep 14 12:29:45 2012 From: kovenronald at aol.com (Koven Ronald) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 12:29:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [governance] The Guardian suggests deliberate provocation In-Reply-To: <12354DA3-7DCB-4952-8D32-AE6AAE7684E8@uzh.ch> References: <8CF60891E839C44-128C-60CD7@webmail-m155.sysops.aol.com> <12354DA3-7DCB-4952-8D32-AE6AAE7684E8@uzh.ch> Message-ID: <8CF60AD48B964A8-128C-627BD@webmail-m155.sysops.aol.com> Sign into the Guardian using your Facebook account Hide Printing sponsored by: Inside the strange Hollywood scam that spread chaos across the Middle East A group of rightwing extremists aimed to destabilize post-Mubarak Egypt and roil US politicians. They got their wish Max Blumenthal guardian.co.uk, Thursday 13 September 2012 17.00 BST Palestinians protest against The Innocence of Muslims. Officials confirmed 'Sam Bacile' was an alias used by Nakoula Basseley Nakoula. Photograph: EPA Did an inflammatory anti-Muslim film trailer that appeared spontaneously on YouTube prompt the attack that left four US diplomats dead, including US ambassador to Libya Christopher Stevens? American officials have suggested that the assault was pre-planned, allegedly by of one of the Jihadist groups that emerged since the Nato-led overthrow of Libya's Gaddafi regime. So even though the deadly scene in Benghazi may not have resulted directly from the angry reaction to the Islamophobic video, the violence has helped realize the apocalyptic visions of the film's backers. Produced and promoted by a strange collection of rightwing Christian evangelicals and exiled Egyptian Copts, the trailer was created with the intention of both destabilizing post-Mubarak Egypt and roiling the US presidential election. As a consultant for the film named Steve Klein said: "We went into this knowing this was probably going to happen." The Associated Press's initial report on the trailer – an amateurish, practically unwatchable production called The Innocence of Muslims – identified a mysterious character, "Sam Bacile", as its producer. Bacile told the Associated Press that he was a Jewish Israeli real estate developer living in California. He said that he raised $5m for the production of the film from "100 Jewish donors", an unusual claim echoing Protocols of the Elders of Zion-style fantasies. Unfortunately, the extensive history of Israeli and ultra-Zionist funding and promotion of Islamophobic propaganda in theUnited States provided Bacile's remarkable statement with the ring of truth. Who was Bacile? The Israeli government could not confirm his citizenship, and for a full day, no journalist was able to determine whether he existed or not. After being duped by Bacile, AP traced his address to the home of Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, a militant Coptic separatist and felon convicted of check fraud. On September 13, US law enforcement officials confirmed that "Sam Bacile" was an alias Nakoula used to advance his various scams, which apparently included the production of The Innocence of Muslims. According to an actor in the film, the all-volunteer cast was deceived into believing they were acting in a benign biblical epic about "how things were 2,000 years ago". The script was titled Desert Warrior, and its contents made no mention of Muhammad – his name was dubbed into the film during post-production. On the set, a gray-haired Egyptian man who identified himself only as "Sam" (Nakoula) chatted aimlessly in Arabic with a group of friends while posing as the director. A casting notice for Desert Warrior listed the film's real director as "Alan Roberts". This could likewise be a pseudonym, although there is a veteran Hollywood hand responsible for such masterpieces as The Happy Hooker Goes Hollywood and The Sexpert who goes by the same name. Before Nakoula was unmasked, the only person to publicly claim any role in the film was Klein, an insurance salesman and Vietnam veteran from Hemet, California, who emerged from the same Islamophobic movement that produced the Norwegian mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik. Styling themselves as "counter-Jihadists", anti-Muslim crusaders like Klein took their cues from top propagandists like Pamela Geller, the blogger who once suggested that Barack Obama was the lovechild of Malcolm X, and Robert Spencer, a pseudo-academic expert on Muslim radicalization who claimed that Islam was no more than "a developed doctrine and tradition of warfare against unbelievers". Both Geller and Spencer were labeled hate group leaders by the Southern Poverty Law Center. Klein is an enthusiastic commenter on Geller's website, Atlas Shrugged, where he recently complained about Mitt Romney's "support for a Muslim state in Israel's heartland". In July 2011, Spencer's website, Jihad Watch, promoted a rally Klein organized to demand the firing of Los Angeles County sheriff Lee Baca, whom he painted as a dupe for the Muslim Brotherhood. On his personal Facebook page, Altar or Abolish, Klein obsesses over the Muslim Brotherhood, describing the organization as "a global network of Muslims attacking to convert the world's 6 billion people to Islam or kill them". Klein urges a violent response to the perceived threat of Islam in the United States, posting an image to his website depicting a middle-American family with a mock tank turret strapped to the roof of their car. "Can you direct us to the nearest mosque?" read a caption Klein added to the photo. In 2011, during his campaign to oust Sheriff Baca, Klein forged an alliance with Joseph Nasrallah, an extremist Coptic broadcaster who shared his fear and resentment of the Muslim Brotherhood. Nasrallah appeared from out of nowhere at a boisterous rally against the construction of an Islamic community center in downtown Manhattan on September 11, 2010, warning a few hundred riled-up Tea Party types that Muslims "came and conquered our country the same way they want to conquer America". Organized by Geller and Spencer, the rally was carefully timed to coincide with the peak of the midterm congressional election campaign, in which many rightwing Republicans hoped to leverage rising anti-Muslim sentiment into resentment against the presidency of Obama. Through his friendship with Nasrallah, Klein encountered another radical Coptic separatist named Morris Sadek. Sadek has been banned from returning to his Egypt, where he is widely hated for his outrageous anti-Muslim displays. On the day of the Ground Zero rally, for instance, Sadek was seen parading around the streets of Washington, DC, on September 11, 2010, with a crucifix in one hand and a Bible implanted with the American flag in the other. "Islam is evil!" he shouted. "Islam is a cult religion!" With another US election approaching, and the Egyptian government suddenly under the control of the Muslim Brotherhood, Klein and Sadek joined Nakoula in preparing what would be their greatest propaganda stunt to date: the Innocence of Muslims. As soon as the film appeared on YouTube, Sadek promoted it on his website, transforming the obscure clip into a viral source of outrage in the Middle East. And like clockwork, on September 11, crowds of Muslim protesters stormed the walls of the US embassy in Cairo, demanding retribution for the insult to the prophet Muhammad. The demonstrations ricocheted into Libya, where the deadly attack that may have been only peripherally related to the film occurred. For Sadek, the chaos was an encouraging development. He and his allies had been steadfastly opposed to the Egyptian revolution, fearing that it would usher in the Muslim Brotherhood as the country's new leaders. Now that their worst fears were realized, Coptic extremists and other pro-Mubarak dead-enders were resorting to subterfuge to undermine the ruling party, while pointing to the destabilizing impact of their efforts as proof of the government's bankruptcy. As Sadek said, "the violence that [the film] caused in Egypt is further evidence of how violent the religion and people". For far-right Christian right activists like Klein, the attacks on American interests abroad seemed likely to advance their ambitions back in the US. With Americans confronted with shocking images of violent Muslims in Egypt and Libya on the evening news, their already negative attitudes toward their Muslim neighbors were likely to harden. In turn, the presidential candidates, Obama and Romney, would be forced to compete for who could take the hardest line against Islamic "terror". A patrician moderate constantly on the defensive against his own right flank, Romney fell for the bait, baselessly accusing Obama of "sympathiz[ing] with those who waged the attacks" and of issuing "an apology for America's values". The clumsy broadside backfired in dramatic fashion, opening Romney to strident criticism from across the spectrum, including from embarrassed Republican members of Congress. Obama wasted no time in authorizing a round of drone strikes on targets across Libya, which are likely to deepen regional hostility to the US. A group of fringe extremists had proven that with a little bit of money and an unbelievably cynical scam, they could shape history to fit their apocalyptic vision. But in the end, they were not immune to the violence they incited. According to Copts Today, an Arabic news outlet focusing on Coptic affairs, Sadek was seen taking a leisurely stroll down Washington's M Street on September 11, soaking in the sun on a perfect autumn day. All of a sudden, he found himself surrounded by four angry Coptic women. Berating Sadek for fueling the flames of sectarian violence, the women took off their heels and began beating him over the head. "If anything happens to a Christian in Egypt," one of them shouted at him, "you'll be the reason!" © 2012 Guardian News and Media Limited or its affiliated companies. All rights reserved. -----Original Message----- From: William Drake To: governance ; Koven Ronald Sent: Fri, Sep 14, 2012 2:37 pm Subject: Re: [governance] Freedom of Expression #FoX #FoE #Yemen #Libya On Sep 14, 2012, at 2:10 PM, Koven Ronald wrote: It seems to me that a more helpful approach, for example, is to note that incitement to violence with the likelihood that the violence will ensue is not legal anywhere, including under the anti-restrictionist US First Amendment. One could argue that the film in question is just such an incitement -- and that its producers likely knew that to be the case. That would put a rather different light on restricting access to the film than simply making a blanket statement to the effect that freedom of expression is not absolute. To repeat what I said a bit ago on another list, I was intrigued yesterday to see Jane Harman, former heavyweight Congressperson on Internet issues and now head of the Woodrow Wilson Center in DC, suggesting that the film could meet the criteria for Incitement to violence and thus be banned within the US on the grounds it falls under the exceptions to protected speech. I've not heard many US politicians, particularly from her side of the aisle, take that line on Internet speech issues before. Do we have any lawyers here who know whether that could be a plausible line of action? Is this an argument that's gathering steam, Rony? Bill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From anriette at apc.org Fri Sep 14 13:03:45 2012 From: anriette at apc.org (Anriette Esterhuysen) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 19:03:45 +0200 Subject: [governance] African CS dialogue on IG: Invitation In-Reply-To: <2FFF6C8B-AB51-44C3-9F4A-59B48F743D4B@apc.org> References: <2FFF6C8B-AB51-44C3-9F4A-59B48F743D4B@apc.org> Message-ID: <50536371.6020100@apc.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Dear friends and colleagues [French below] INVITATION TO JOIN ONLINE DIALOGUE! We invite you to join an online dialogue among African civil society, media and other people who care about a free, open and accessible internet to share their views and increase their understanding of current trends in internet regulation and governance. The UN's Human Rights Council adopted a landmark resolution in 2012 that 'human rights apply online as well as offline'. We need to be aware of this and help promote the application of this decision at all levels of internet policy and regulation. The dialogue should help us consider questions such as: 1. What are the implications of the HRC resolution for our work? 2. How does it relate to broader debates on human rights, governance and development? 3. What do you think are the fundamental principles that should frame and guide the decision-making processes that shape the evolution of the internet - at infrastructure level as well as at access and usage level? 4. What are your suggestions to improve the participation of African constituencies in the coordination of the internet global resources as well as in related policy-making processes? 5. What are the specific changes you would like to see, if any, across the range of entities and processes that carry out the governance of the internet? Aside from these broader questions it is also crucial that we consider upcoming processes such as the African Internet Governance Forum (Oct), the global Internet Governance Forum (Nov) and the review of the International Telecommunications Regulations (ITRs) at the ITU's World Conference on International Telecommunications (WCIT) (Dec). It is hoped that this platform will strengthen African civil society's engagement with internet governance processes at national, regional and global levels and enable us to contribute to shaping the future development of the internet and the telecommunications networks most of us depend on for access. To join this discussion do one of the following: 1) Go to https://lists.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/africs-ig and follow the instructions to join the mailing list. 2) Write to Mawaki Chango at mawaki at apc.org and he will add your email to the list. 3) Visit our background page http://africa-ig.wiki.apc.org/index.php/Main_Page to learn more about this process. Looking forward to hearing your views and questions. Remember there is no such thing as a 'stupid question'! Don't feel intimidated by jargon and concepts that you don't fully understand. As a community of African internet users we will be able to learn from one another. Staff and members of the Association for Progressive Communications will help facilitate this discusssion. Participants are free to post in English and French. We will develop regular summaries and post them in both languages. Warm regards from the APC Africa policy team Mawaki Chango Emilar Vushe Anriette Esterhuysen ============================================================== Chers amis et collègues, here you go: Chers amis et collègues, Nous vous invitons à vous joindre à un dialogue tenu par les groupes africains de société civile, les médias et d'autres groupes qui tiennent à coeur un internet libre, accessible et abordable afin de partager vos opinions et ainsi accroître la compréhension de tous des tendances actuelles par rapport à la régulation et la gouvernance de l'internet. Le Conseil des droits de l'homme des Nations unies a adopté une résolution historique en 2012 qui dicte que les « droits de l'homme s'appliquent tant en ligne qu’hors ligne ». Nous devons être vigilants et aider à promouvoir l'application de cette décision à tous les niveaux de la régulation et la formulation de politiques d'internet. Le dialogue nous aidera à considérer des questions comme : Quel est l'effet de la résolution du Conseil des droits de l'homme sur notre travail? Comment celle-ci se place t-elle en relation avec les plus grandes questions qui traitent des droits humains, la gouvernance et le développement? Selon vous, quels sont les principes fondamentaux qui devraient encadrer le guide et le processus de prise de décision pour façonner l'évolution de l'internet – au niveau de l'infrastructure ainsi qu'au niveau d'accès et d'usage? Selon vous, comment pourrait-on améliorer la participation des circonscriptions africaines dans la coordination des ressources globales de l'internet, ainsi que dans le processus de formulation de politiques? Quels changements spécifiques aimeriez-vous voir dans le processus et les organisations impliquées dans la gouvernance de l'internet? Au-delà de ces grandes questions, il est aussi important de considérer les processus à venir, tels que le Forum sur la gouvernance de l'internet africain (en octobre), le Forum sur la gouvernance de l'internet mondial (novembre) et la revue des Régulateurs internationaux des télécommunications (RIT) lors de la conférence par mondiale Union internationale des télécommunications (UIT) (décembre) Nous espérons que cette plateforme renforcera l'engagement de la société civile africaine dans le processus de la gouvernance de l'internet aux niveaux national, régional et global, et nous permettra de contribuer au développement de l'internet et des réseaux de télécommunications sur lesquels la plupart d'entre nous sommes dépendants pour accéder à l'internet. Afin de vous joindre à la discussion, vous n'avez qu'à : 1) vous inscrire à la liste https://lists.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/africs-ig 2) envoyer une demande à Mawaki Chango mawaki at apc.org pour qu'il vous ajoute à la liste 3) vous renseigner davantage sur le processus http://africa-ig.wiki.apc.org/index.php/Main_Page Nous attendons avec impatience vos opinions et questions. Rappelez-vous qu'il n'existe pas de « question stupide ». Ne vous laissez pas intimider par les mots techniques ou concepts que vous ne comprenez pas. En tant que communauté d'utilisateurs internet africains, nous pouvons apprendre l'un de l'autre. Le personnel et les membres de l'Associaition pour le progrès des communications aideront à faciliter la discussion. Les participants sont libres à écrire en anglais ou français. Nous allons régulièrement produire des sommaires et les afficher dans les deux langues. Bien à vous, Lisa Cyr Communications, Media and Promotions Associate Adjointe aux communications Equipo de comunicación Skype: lisac_apc Association for Progressive Communications | www.apc.org @APC_News | @APCNouvelles |@APCNoticias - ------------------------------------------------------ anriette esterhuysen anriette at apc.org executive director, association for progressive communications www.apc.org po box 29755, melville 2109 south africa tel/fax +27 11 726 1692 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJQU2NxAAoJEJ0z+TtuxKewS18H/0M6zTicWFQTRaCnJmpcOXyA JkKAUbjZmmQbrckpn/kUDRhVIAgVV5QC+hsvbSNOzbKcUgOA0ULKd+OVyu/e/PQn qzJ6JFCPP7g52VtNI2WDSJndfziNq1o2J1NXKPXOzyrSgMfbN+ygIrQaL8LvR6GL OHp0U8WT0tPqzLiZtjIbohk0k+tVCjgxhFf8Hb/Acmx2l+dKD+ffYD2ywUmp7ZYU Rt2TRwBRbgjdSsCTAAZXP8GSWVB2s74M+pDwY3f/BwbvKLIYmaezTtIhTp39U4Dd /1GvlYRg3HRPw4qKtLCJxJ3iaCwa6mKy1GWxu5sl5jGUEFr+4t32AGSm0DeHfJk= =FVkY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From kovenronald at aol.com Fri Sep 14 13:40:20 2012 From: kovenronald at aol.com (Koven Ronald) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 13:40:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [governance] African CS dialogue on IG: Invitation In-Reply-To: <50536371.6020100@apc.org> References: <2FFF6C8B-AB51-44C3-9F4A-59B48F743D4B@apc.org> <50536371.6020100@apc.org> Message-ID: <8CF60B72476B741-128C-62EFC@webmail-m155.sysops.aol.com> Dear Anriette -- I'm afraid the Human Rights Council's "landmark" resolution is something of a Johnny-come-lately. Back in 1997, the General Conference of the UNESCO member states formally endorsed the Declaration of Sofia of the UN/UNESCO European Seminar on Promoting Independent and Pluralistic Media, saying:in its Point 10: "The advent of new information and communication technologies representing new channels for the free flow of information could and should contribute to pluralism, economic and social development, democracy and peace. The access to and the use of these new media should be afforded the same freedom of expression protections as traditional media." (Immodestly, that was an amendment I introduced.) Cheers, Rony Koven -----Original Message----- From: Anriette Esterhuysen To: governance Sent: Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:04 pm Subject: [governance] African CS dialogue on IG: Invitation -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Dear friends and colleagues [French below] INVITATION TO JOIN ONLINE DIALOGUE! We invite you to join an online dialogue among African civil society, media and other people who care about a free, open and accessible internet to share their views and increase their understanding of current trends in internet regulation and governance. The UN's Human Rights Council adopted a landmark resolution in 2012 that 'human rights apply online as well as offline'. We need to be aware of this and help promote the application of this decision at all levels of internet policy and regulation. The dialogue should help us consider questions such as: 1. What are the implications of the HRC resolution for our work? 2. How does it relate to broader debates on human rights, governance and development? 3. What do you think are the fundamental principles that should frame and guide the decision-making processes that shape the evolution of the internet - at infrastructure level as well as at access and usage level? 4. What are your suggestions to improve the participation of African constituencies in the coordination of the internet global resources as well as in related policy-making processes? 5. What are the specific changes you would like to see, if any, across the range of entities and processes that carry out the governance of the internet? Aside from these broader questions it is also crucial that we consider upcoming processes such as the African Internet Governance Forum (Oct), the global Internet Governance Forum (Nov) and the review of the International Telecommunications Regulations (ITRs) at the ITU's World Conference on International Telecommunications (WCIT) (Dec). It is hoped that this platform will strengthen African civil society's engagement with internet governance processes at national, regional and global levels and enable us to contribute to shaping the future development of the internet and the telecommunications networks most of us depend on for access. To join this discussion do one of the following: 1) Go to https://lists.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/africs-ig and follow the instructions to join the mailing list. 2) Write to Mawaki Chango at mawaki at apc.org and he will add your email to the list. 3) Visit our background page http://africa-ig.wiki.apc.org/index.php/Main_Page to learn more about this process. Looking forward to hearing your views and questions. Remember there is no such thing as a 'stupid question'! Don't feel intimidated by jargon and concepts that you don't fully understand. As a community of African internet users we will be able to learn from one another. Staff and members of the Association for Progressive Communications will help facilitate this discusssion. Participants are free to post in English and French. We will develop regular summaries and post them in both languages. Warm regards from the APC Africa policy team Mawaki Chango Emilar Vushe Anriette Esterhuysen ============================================================== Chers amis et collègues, here you go: Chers amis et collègues, Nous vous invitons à vous joindre à un dialogue tenu par les groupes africains de société civile, les médias et d'autres groupes qui tiennent à coeur un internet libre, accessible et abordable afin de partager vos opinions et ainsi accroître la compréhension de tous des tendances actuelles par rapport à la régulation et la gouvernance de l'internet. Le Conseil des droits de l'homme des Nations unies a adopté une résolution historique en 2012 qui dicte que les « droits de l'homme s'appliquent tant en ligne qu’hors ligne ». Nous devons être vigilants et aider à promouvoir l'application de cette décision à tous les niveaux de la régulation et la formulation de politiques d'internet. Le dialogue nous aidera à considérer des questions comme : Quel est l'effet de la résolution du Conseil des droits de l'homme sur notre travail? Comment celle-ci se place t-elle en relation avec les plus grandes questions qui traitent des droits humains, la gouvernance et le développement? Selon vous, quels sont les principes fondamentaux qui devraient encadrer le guide et le processus de prise de décision pour façonner l'évolution de l'internet – au niveau de l'infrastructure ainsi qu'au niveau d'accès et d'usage? Selon vous, comment pourrait-on améliorer la participation des circonscriptions africaines dans la coordination des ressources globales de l'internet, ainsi que dans le processus de formulation de politiques? Quels changements spécifiques aimeriez-vous voir dans le processus et les organisations impliquées dans la gouvernance de l'internet? Au-delà de ces grandes questions, il est aussi important de considérer les processus à venir, tels que le Forum sur la gouvernance de l'internet africain (en octobre), le Forum sur la gouvernance de l'internet mondial (novembre) et la revue des Régulateurs internationaux des télécommunications (RIT) lors de la conférence par mondiale Union internationale des télécommunications (UIT) (décembre) Nous espérons que cette plateforme renforcera l'engagement de la société civile africaine dans le processus de la gouvernance de l'internet aux niveaux national, régional et global, et nous permettra de contribuer au développement de l'internet et des réseaux de télécommunications sur lesquels la plupart d'entre nous sommes dépendants pour accéder à l'internet. Afin de vous joindre à la discussion, vous n'avez qu'à : 1) vous inscrire à la liste https://lists.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/africs-ig 2) envoyer une demande à Mawaki Chango mawaki at apc.org pour qu'il vous ajoute à la liste 3) vous renseigner davantage sur le processus http://africa-ig.wiki.apc.org/index.php/Main_Page Nous attendons avec impatience vos opinions et questions. Rappelez-vous qu'il n'existe pas de « question stupide ». Ne vous laissez pas intimider par les mots techniques ou concepts que vous ne comprenez pas. En tant que communauté d'utilisateurs internet africains, nous pouvons apprendre l'un de l'autre. Le personnel et les membres de l'Associaition pour le progrès des communications aideront à faciliter la discussion. Les participants sont libres à écrire en anglais ou français. Nous allons régulièrement produire des sommaires et les afficher dans les deux langues. Bien à vous, Lisa Cyr Communications, Media and Promotions Associate Adjointe aux communications Equipo de comunicación Skype: lisac_apc Association for Progressive Communications | www.apc.org @APC_News | @APCNouvelles |@APCNoticias - ------------------------------------------------------ anriette esterhuysen anriette at apc.org executive director, association for progressive communications www.apc.org po box 29755, melville 2109 south africa tel/fax +27 11 726 1692 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJQU2NxAAoJEJ0z+TtuxKewS18H/0M6zTicWFQTRaCnJmpcOXyA JkKAUbjZmmQbrckpn/kUDRhVIAgVV5QC+hsvbSNOzbKcUgOA0ULKd+OVyu/e/PQn qzJ6JFCPP7g52VtNI2WDSJndfziNq1o2J1NXKPXOzyrSgMfbN+ygIrQaL8LvR6GL OHp0U8WT0tPqzLiZtjIbohk0k+tVCjgxhFf8Hb/Acmx2l+dKD+ffYD2ywUmp7ZYU Rt2TRwBRbgjdSsCTAAZXP8GSWVB2s74M+pDwY3f/BwbvKLIYmaezTtIhTp39U4Dd /1GvlYRg3HRPw4qKtLCJxJ3iaCwa6mKy1GWxu5sl5jGUEFr+4t32AGSm0DeHfJk= =FVkY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Fri Sep 14 13:59:01 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 05:59:01 +1200 Subject: [governance] African CS dialogue on IG: Invitation In-Reply-To: <8CF60B72476B741-128C-62EFC@webmail-m155.sysops.aol.com> References: <2FFF6C8B-AB51-44C3-9F4A-59B48F743D4B@apc.org> <50536371.6020100@apc.org> <8CF60B72476B741-128C-62EFC@webmail-m155.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Dear Anriette, Rony This is an excellent initiative by APC in encouraging the dialogue on this important subject. Now we have two things to reference both the UNESCO Declaration and the Human Rights Council Resolution in the quest for a free and open and accessible Internet. Kind Regards, Sala On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 5:40 AM, Koven Ronald wrote: > Dear Anriette -- > > I'm afraid the Human Rights Council's "landmark" resolution is something > of a Johnny-come-lately. > > Back in 1997, the General Conference of the UNESCO member states > formally endorsed the Declaration of Sofia of the UN/UNESCO European > Seminar on Promoting Independent and Pluralistic Media, saying:in its Point > 10: > > *"The advent of new information and communication technologies > representing new channels for the free flow of information could and should > contribute to pluralism, economic and social development, democracy and > peace. The access to and the use of these new media should be afforded the > same freedom of expression protections as traditional media."* > * > * > (Immodestly, that was an amendment I introduced.) > > Cheers, Rony Koven > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anriette Esterhuysen > To: governance > Sent: Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:04 pm > Subject: [governance] African CS dialogue on IG: Invitation > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Dear friends and colleagues > > [French below] > > INVITATION TO JOIN ONLINE DIALOGUE! > > We invite you to join an online dialogue among African civil > society, media and other people who care about a free, open and > accessible internet to share their views and increase their > understanding of current trends in internet regulation and governance. > > The UN's Human Rights Council adopted a landmark resolution in 2012 that > 'human rights apply online as well as offline'. We need to be aware of > this and help promote the application of this decision at all levels of > internet policy and regulation. > > The dialogue should help us consider questions such as: > > 1. What are the implications of the HRC resolution for our work? > > 2. How does it relate to broader debates on human rights, governance and > development? > > 3. What do you think are the fundamental principles that should frame > and guide the decision-making processes that shape the evolution of the > internet - at infrastructure level as well as at access and usage level? > > 4. What are your suggestions to improve the participation of African > constituencies in the coordination of the internet global resources as > well as in related policy-making processes? > > 5. What are the specific changes you would like to see, if any, across > the range of entities and processes that carry out the governance of the > internet? > > Aside from these broader questions it is also crucial that we consider > upcoming processes such as the African Internet Governance Forum (Oct), > the global Internet Governance Forum (Nov) and the review of the > International Telecommunications Regulations (ITRs) at the > ITU's World Conference on International Telecommunications (WCIT) (Dec). > > It is hoped that this platform will strengthen African civil society's > engagement with internet governance processes at national, regional and > global levels and enable us to contribute to shaping the future > development of the internet and the telecommunications networks most of > us depend on for access. > > To join this discussion do one of the following: > > 1) Go to https://lists.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/africs-ig and follow the > instructions to join the mailing list. > 2) Write to Mawaki Chango at mawaki at apc.org and he will add your email > to the list. > 3) Visit our background pagehttp://africa-ig.wiki.apc.org/index.php/Main_Page to learn more about > this process. > > Looking forward to hearing your views and questions. Remember there is > no such thing as a 'stupid question'! Don't feel intimidated by jargon > and concepts that you don't fully understand. As a community of African > internet users we will be able to learn from one another. > > Staff and members of the Association for Progressive Communications will > help facilitate this discusssion. Participants are free to post in > English and French. We will develop regular summaries and post them in > both languages. > > Warm regards from the APC Africa policy team > > Mawaki Chango > Emilar Vushe > Anriette Esterhuysen > > ============================================================== > Chers amis et collègues, > here you go: > Chers amis et collègues, > Nous vous invitons à vous joindre à un dialogue tenu par les groupes > africains de société civile, les médias et d'autres groupes qui > tiennent à coeur un internet libre, accessible et abordable afin de > partager vos opinions et ainsi accroître la compréhension de tous des > tendances actuelles par rapport à la régulation et la gouvernance de > l'internet. > > Le Conseil des droits de l'homme des Nations unies a adopté une > résolution historique en 2012 qui dicte que les « droits de l'homme > s'appliquent tant en ligne qu’hors ligne ». Nous devons être vigilants > et aider à promouvoir l'application de cette décision à tous les > niveaux de la régulation et la formulation de politiques d'internet. > > Le dialogue nous aidera à considérer des questions comme : > > Quel est l'effet de la résolution du Conseil des droits de l'homme sur > notre travail? > Comment celle-ci se place t-elle en relation avec les plus grandes > questions qui traitent des droits humains, la gouvernance et le > développement? > Selon vous, quels sont les principes fondamentaux qui devraient > encadrer le guide et le processus de prise de décision pour façonner > l'évolution de l'internet – au niveau de l'infrastructure ainsi qu'au > niveau d'accès et d'usage? > Selon vous, comment pourrait-on améliorer la participation des > circonscriptions africaines dans la coordination des ressources > globales de l'internet, ainsi que dans le processus de formulation de > politiques? > Quels changements spécifiques aimeriez-vous voir dans le processus et > les organisations impliquées dans la gouvernance de l'internet? > > Au-delà de ces grandes questions, il est aussi important de considérer > les processus à venir, tels que le Forum sur la gouvernance de > l'internet africain (en octobre), le Forum sur la gouvernance de > l'internet mondial (novembre) et la revue des Régulateurs > internationaux des télécommunications (RIT) lors de la conférence par > mondiale Union internationale des télécommunications (UIT) (décembre) > > Nous espérons que cette plateforme renforcera l'engagement de la > société civile africaine dans le processus de la gouvernance de > l'internet aux niveaux national, régional et global, et nous permettra > de contribuer au développement de l'internet et des réseaux de > télécommunications sur lesquels la plupart d'entre nous sommes > dépendants pour accéder à l'internet. > > Afin de vous joindre à la discussion, vous n'avez qu'à : > > 1) vous inscrire à la listehttps://lists.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/africs-ig > 2) envoyer une demande à Mawaki Chango mawaki at apc.org pour qu'il vous > ajoute à la liste > 3) vous renseigner davantage sur le processushttp://africa-ig.wiki.apc.org/index.php/Main_Page > > Nous attendons avec impatience vos opinions et questions. > Rappelez-vous qu'il n'existe pas de « question stupide ». Ne vous > laissez pas intimider par les mots techniques ou concepts que vous ne > comprenez pas. En tant que communauté d'utilisateurs internet > africains, nous pouvons apprendre l'un de l'autre. > > Le personnel et les membres de l'Associaition pour le progrès des > communications aideront à faciliter la discussion. Les participants > sont libres à écrire en anglais ou français. Nous allons régulièrement > produire des sommaires et les afficher dans les deux langues. > > Bien à vous, > > > Lisa Cyr > Communications, Media and Promotions Associate > Adjointe aux communications > Equipo de comunicación > Skype: lisac_apc > Association for Progressive Communications | www.apc.org > @APC_News | @APCNouvelles |@APCNoticias > > - ------------------------------------------------------ > anriette esterhuysen anriette at apc.org > executive director, association for progressive communicationswww.apc.org > po box 29755, melville 2109 > south africa > tel/fax +27 11 726 1692 > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJQU2NxAAoJEJ0z+TtuxKewS18H/0M6zTicWFQTRaCnJmpcOXyA > JkKAUbjZmmQbrckpn/kUDRhVIAgVV5QC+hsvbSNOzbKcUgOA0ULKd+OVyu/e/PQn > qzJ6JFCPP7g52VtNI2WDSJndfziNq1o2J1NXKPXOzyrSgMfbN+ygIrQaL8LvR6GL > OHp0U8WT0tPqzLiZtjIbohk0k+tVCjgxhFf8Hb/Acmx2l+dKD+ffYD2ywUmp7ZYU > Rt2TRwBRbgjdSsCTAAZXP8GSWVB2s74M+pDwY3f/BwbvKLIYmaezTtIhTp39U4Dd > /1GvlYRg3HRPw4qKtLCJxJ3iaCwa6mKy1GWxu5sl5jGUEFr+4t32AGSm0DeHfJk= > =FVkY > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Fri Sep 14 14:16:45 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 06:16:45 +1200 Subject: [governance] ICANN Africa Strategy In-Reply-To: <505346D3.20305@apc.org> References: <8CF60891E839C44-128C-60CD7@webmail-m155.sysops.aol.com> <12354DA3-7DCB-4952-8D32-AE6AAE7684E8@uzh.ch> <8CF608DEE7E8512-128C-60F67@webmail-m155.sysops.aol.com> <505346D3.20305@apc.org> Message-ID: Dear Alice, This is an excellent example of a region exercising leadership and working in collaboration to grow a robust information society within African region. I went through the material and I congratulate the Working Group for increasing its efforts to strengthen and build systems that will encourage meaningful participation into the various Policy spaces within ICANN. I like the metrics and the Draft SWOT Analysis and this should encourage other regions to organise the same. Kind Regards, Sala On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 3:01 AM, Alice Munyua wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > During the ICANN Prague meeting an ICANN Africa Strategy working group > (ASWG) was set up to develop a framework for ICANN's Africa strategy . > The strategy will aim to support a stronger presence for ICANN in Africa > and to increase African participation in ICANN as well as promote the > multi-stakeholder model. > > This effort forms part of ICANN's global strategy with a special focus on > developing countries. > > The group has now posted working documents for comments and contributions > here: http://www.afrinic.net/en/community/icann-aswg > > Please visit and share your views. > > Best regards > Alice Munyua > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Fri Sep 14 14:38:47 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 06:38:47 +1200 Subject: [governance] ICANN Africa Strategy In-Reply-To: <505346D3.20305@apc.org> References: <8CF60891E839C44-128C-60CD7@webmail-m155.sysops.aol.com> <12354DA3-7DCB-4952-8D32-AE6AAE7684E8@uzh.ch> <8CF608DEE7E8512-128C-60F67@webmail-m155.sysops.aol.com> <505346D3.20305@apc.org> Message-ID: Dear Alice, I cannot speak for At Large or ALAC but capacity building within At Large is something of a priority. Speaking in my own personal capacity, there is a need to increase diversity of participation and voices into the policy making process. Following the ICANN meeting in Dakar, I had written a proposal to At Large which was transferred to another part of the Wiki, see: https://community.icann.org/x/J5vbAQ As you can imagine the figures need to be updated etc.We are also preparing dashboard that should help us measure meaningful participation. Kind Regards, Sala On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 3:01 AM, Alice Munyua wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > During the ICANN Prague meeting an ICANN Africa Strategy working group > (ASWG) was set up to develop a framework for ICANN's Africa strategy . > The strategy will aim to support a stronger presence for ICANN in Africa > and to increase African participation in ICANN as well as promote the > multi-stakeholder model. > > This effort forms part of ICANN's global strategy with a special focus on > developing countries. > > The group has now posted working documents for comments and contributions > here: http://www.afrinic.net/en/community/icann-aswg > > Please visit and share your views. > > Best regards > Alice Munyua > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From anriette at apc.org Fri Sep 14 15:52:56 2012 From: anriette at apc.org (Anriette Esterhuysen) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 21:52:56 +0200 Subject: [governance] African CS dialogue on IG: Invitation In-Reply-To: <8CF60B72476B741-128C-62EFC@webmail-m155.sysops.aol.com> References: <2FFF6C8B-AB51-44C3-9F4A-59B48F743D4B@apc.org> <50536371.6020100@apc.org> <8CF60B72476B741-128C-62EFC@webmail-m155.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <50538B18.8070204@apc.org> Dear Rony The potential of the HRC resolution is that it pressurises existing human rights mechanisms at national, regional and global levels to enforce these rights. It is not just a principle. It empowers/compels mechanisms. It also means that mandate holders of the HRC can be requested to visit and investigate conditions in particular countries. And, it means that these rights can be monitored in the Universal Periodic Review process where governments have to make commitments to implemented changes and they have 4 years to do so. For civil society watch dogs and rights defenders this is all incredibly useful. Read about the 'real name' policy case in South Korea - Jinbonet started its struggle against this policy (intended to prevent people from communicating under aliases online) at the Human Rights Council. They have just won a huge victory with this policy being declared unconstitutional. It is not the end of the struggle, and it has taken many years, but it demonstrates that human rights mechanisms and standards can work. http://www.apc.org/en/news/victory-freedom-expression-south-korea Anriette On 14/09/2012 19:40, Koven Ronald wrote: > Dear Anriette -- > > > I'm afraid the Human Rights Council's "landmark" resolution is > something of a Johnny-come-lately. > > > Back in 1997, the General Conference of the UNESCO member states > formally endorsed the Declaration of Sofia of the UN/UNESCO European > Seminar on Promoting Independent and Pluralistic Media, saying:in its > Point 10: > > > "The advent of new information and communication technologies > representing new channels for the free flow of information could and > should contribute to pluralism, economic and social development, > democracy and peace. The access to and the use of these new media > should be afforded the same freedom of expression protections as > traditional media." > > > (Immodestly, that was an amendment I introduced.) > > > Cheers, Rony Koven > > > > -----Original Message----- From: Anriette Esterhuysen > To: governance > Sent: Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:04 pm Subject: [governance] African CS > dialogue on IG: Invitation > > > Dear friends and colleagues > > [French below] > > INVITATION TO JOIN ONLINE DIALOGUE! > > We invite you to join an online dialogue among African civil society, > media and other people who care about a free, open and accessible > internet to share their views and increase their understanding of > current trends in internet regulation and governance. > > The UN's Human Rights Council adopted a landmark resolution in 2012 > that 'human rights apply online as well as offline'. We need to be > aware of this and help promote the application of this decision at > all levels of internet policy and regulation. > > The dialogue should help us consider questions such as: > > 1. What are the implications of the HRC resolution for our work? > > 2. How does it relate to broader debates on human rights, governance > and development? > > 3. What do you think are the fundamental principles that should > frame and guide the decision-making processes that shape the > evolution of the internet - at infrastructure level as well as at > access and usage level? > > 4. What are your suggestions to improve the participation of African > constituencies in the coordination of the internet global resources > as well as in related policy-making processes? > > 5. What are the specific changes you would like to see, if any, > across the range of entities and processes that carry out the > governance of the internet? > > Aside from these broader questions it is also crucial that we > consider upcoming processes such as the African Internet Governance > Forum (Oct), the global Internet Governance Forum (Nov) and the > review of the International Telecommunications Regulations (ITRs) at > the ITU's World Conference on International Telecommunications (WCIT) > (Dec). > > It is hoped that this platform will strengthen African civil > society's engagement with internet governance processes at national, > regional and global levels and enable us to contribute to shaping the > future development of the internet and the telecommunications > networks most of us depend on for access. > > To join this discussion do one of the following: > > 1) Go to https://lists.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/africs-ig and follow > the instructions to join the mailing list. 2) Write to Mawaki Chango > at mawaki at apc.org and he will add your email to the list. 3) Visit > our background page http://africa-ig.wiki.apc.org/index.php/Main_Page > to learn more about this process. > > Looking forward to hearing your views and questions. Remember there > is no such thing as a 'stupid question'! Don't feel intimidated by > jargon and concepts that you don't fully understand. As a community > of African internet users we will be able to learn from one another. > > Staff and members of the Association for Progressive Communications > will help facilitate this discusssion. Participants are free to post > in English and French. We will develop regular summaries and post > them in both languages. > > Warm regards from the APC Africa policy team > > Mawaki Chango Emilar Vushe Anriette Esterhuysen > > ============================================================== Chers > amis et collègues, here you go: Chers amis et collègues, Nous vous > invitons à vous joindre à un dialogue tenu par les groupes africains > de société civile, les médias et d'autres groupes qui tiennent à > coeur un internet libre, accessible et abordable afin de partager vos > opinions et ainsi accroître la compréhension de tous des tendances > actuelles par rapport à la régulation et la gouvernance de > l'internet. > > Le Conseil des droits de l'homme des Nations unies a adopté une > résolution historique en 2012 qui dicte que les « droits de l'homme > s'appliquent tant en ligne qu’hors ligne ». Nous devons être > vigilants et aider à promouvoir l'application de cette décision à > tous les niveaux de la régulation et la formulation de politiques > d'internet. > > Le dialogue nous aidera à considérer des questions comme : > > Quel est l'effet de la résolution du Conseil des droits de l'homme > sur notre travail? Comment celle-ci se place t-elle en relation avec > les plus grandes questions qui traitent des droits humains, la > gouvernance et le développement? Selon vous, quels sont les principes > fondamentaux qui devraient encadrer le guide et le processus de prise > de décision pour façonner l'évolution de l'internet – au niveau de > l'infrastructure ainsi qu'au niveau d'accès et d'usage? Selon vous, > comment pourrait-on améliorer la participation des circonscriptions > africaines dans la coordination des ressources globales de > l'internet, ainsi que dans le processus de formulation de > politiques? Quels changements spécifiques aimeriez-vous voir dans le > processus et les organisations impliquées dans la gouvernance de > l'internet? > > Au-delà de ces grandes questions, il est aussi important de > considérer les processus à venir, tels que le Forum sur la > gouvernance de l'internet africain (en octobre), le Forum sur la > gouvernance de l'internet mondial (novembre) et la revue des > Régulateurs internationaux des télécommunications (RIT) lors de la > conférence par mondiale Union internationale des télécommunications > (UIT) (décembre) > > Nous espérons que cette plateforme renforcera l'engagement de la > société civile africaine dans le processus de la gouvernance de > l'internet aux niveaux national, régional et global, et nous > permettra de contribuer au développement de l'internet et des réseaux > de télécommunications sur lesquels la plupart d'entre nous sommes > dépendants pour accéder à l'internet. > > Afin de vous joindre à la discussion, vous n'avez qu'à : > > 1) vous inscrire à la liste > https://lists.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/africs-ig 2) envoyer une > demande à Mawaki Chango mawaki at apc.org pour qu'il vous ajoute à la > liste 3) vous renseigner davantage sur le processus > http://africa-ig.wiki.apc.org/index.php/Main_Page > > Nous attendons avec impatience vos opinions et questions. > Rappelez-vous qu'il n'existe pas de « question stupide ». Ne vous > laissez pas intimider par les mots techniques ou concepts que vous > ne comprenez pas. En tant que communauté d'utilisateurs internet > africains, nous pouvons apprendre l'un de l'autre. > > Le personnel et les membres de l'Associaition pour le progrès des > communications aideront à faciliter la discussion. Les participants > sont libres à écrire en anglais ou français. Nous allons > régulièrement produire des sommaires et les afficher dans les deux > langues. > > Bien à vous, > > > Lisa Cyr Communications, Media and Promotions Associate Adjointe aux > communications Equipo de comunicación Skype: lisac_apc Association > for Progressive Communications | www.apc.org @APC_News | > @APCNouvelles |@APCNoticias > > ------------------------------------------------------ anriette > esterhuysen anriette at apc.org executive director, association for > progressive communications www.apc.org po box 29755, melville 2109 > south africa tel/fax +27 11 726 1692 > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ You > received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to > find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > -- ------------------------------------------------------ anriette esterhuysen anriette at apc.org executive director, association for progressive communications www.apc.org po box 29755, melville 2109 south africa tel/fax +27 11 726 1692 -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From nne75 at yahoo.com Fri Sep 14 18:40:54 2012 From: nne75 at yahoo.com (Nnenna) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 15:40:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [governance] ICANN Africa Strategy In-Reply-To: References: <8CF60891E839C44-128C-60CD7@webmail-m155.sysops.aol.com> <12354DA3-7DCB-4952-8D32-AE6AAE7684E8@uzh.ch> <8CF608DEE7E8512-128C-60F67@webmail-m155.sysops.aol.com> <505346D3.20305@apc.org> Message-ID: <1347662454.39560.YahooMailNeo@web120106.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Dear all. I am reading through the various documents, especially the SWOT analysis and I think a great work is underway.  Alice, shall we be contributing more to the work during the AfIGF? Best Nnenna Nnenna  Nwakanma |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG  |  Consultants Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471 |Mob. 07416820 Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065| http://www.nnenna.org nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 | nnennaorg.blogspot.com ________________________________ From: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Alice Munyua Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 6:16 PM Subject: Re: [governance] ICANN Africa Strategy Dear Alice, This is an excellent example of a region exercising leadership and working in collaboration to grow a robust information society within African region. I went through the material and I congratulate the Working Group for increasing its efforts to strengthen and build systems that will encourage meaningful participation into the various Policy spaces within ICANN. I like the metrics and the Draft SWOT Analysis and this should encourage other regions to organise the same.  Kind Regards, Sala On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 3:01 AM, Alice Munyua wrote: Dear Colleagues, > >During the ICANN Prague meeting an ICANN Africa Strategy working group (ASWG) was set up to develop a framework for ICANN's Africa strategy . >The strategy will aim to support a stronger presence for ICANN in Africa and to increase African participation in ICANN as well as promote the multi-stakeholder model. > >This effort forms part of ICANN's  global strategy with a special focus on developing countries. >The group has now posted working documents for comments and contributions here: http://www.afrinic.net/en/community/icann-aswg > >Please visit and share your views. > >Best regards >Alice Munyua >  > > >____________________________________________________________ >You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >     governance at lists.igcaucus.org >To be removed from the list, visit: >     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > >For all other list information and functions, see: >     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >     http://www.igcaucus.org/ > >Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851   ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list:     governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit:     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see:     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:     http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From charityg at diplomacy.edu Sat Sep 15 00:47:15 2012 From: charityg at diplomacy.edu (Charity Gamboa) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 23:47:15 -0500 Subject: [governance] Brainstorming [Improvements to IGC Coordination on IG Policies] #Working Groups In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I can work on groups pertaining to capacity building or anything that would lean on education. Thanks! Charity On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 6:52 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear All, > > As you can imagine, we are constantly faced with the challenges of > improving the manner in which we coordinate advocacy in policy areas > pertaining to Internet Governance. Following the current evaluation of the > IGC, we will issue another Survey to generate suggestions on how we can > improve out internal coordination as the IGC. Things like developing > positions on Policy areas. > The IGC has following consensus developed positions on certain areas such > as Freedom of Expression, Remote Participation, Human Rights etc. Noting > that with critical forums looming namely, the IGF and other forums that > will require global input from the IGC, I have put together some thoughts. > Let me have your comments. > > > *Background* > > Following the recent Survey conducted by the IGC there is consensus that > there is a need to enhance the coordination of advocacy of critical > Internet Governance issues in key Forums aside from the IGF. As such, we > would like to gather your views about how we are going to go about > achieving the same. > > > The WGIG 2005 Report had identified 4 Public Policy Clusters namely[1]<#139ad738dd8aa2f7__ftn1> > :- > > a) (a) Issues Relating to Infrastructure and Management of Critical > Internet Resources, including administration of domain name systems and > Internet Protocol Addresses, Administration of the root server system, > technical standards, peering and interconnection, telecommunications > infrastructure, including innovative and convergent technologies, as well > as multilingualization; > > b) (b) Issues relating to the use of the Internet including spam, > network security and cyber crime; > > c) (c.) Issues that are relevant to the Internet but have an impact > much wider than the Internet such as Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) and > International Trade; > > d) (d.) Issues relating to the developmental aspects of Internet > Governance in particular capacity building in developing countries. > > The WGIG then highlighted critical policy areas for the attention of the > WSIS[2] <#139ad738dd8aa2f7__ftn2>. The Table below illustrates the Policy > Cluster as well as the policy issues. > > *No.* > > *#* > > *POLICY AREAS* > > *POLICY CLUSTER* > > 1 > > Administration of the Root Zones, Files and Systems > > a > > 2 > > Interconnection Costs > > a > > 3 > > Allocation of Domain Names > > a > > 4 > > IP Addressing > > a > > 5 > > Multilingualism > > a > > 6 > > Internet Stability, Security and Cyber Crime > > b > > 7 > > Spam > > b > > 8 > > Intellectual Property Rights > > c > > 9 > > Meaningful Participation in Global Policy Development > > a, b, c, d > > 10 > > Capacity Building > > A,b,c,d > > 11 > > Freedom of Expression > > A,b,c,d > > 12 > > Data Protection and Privacy Rights > > A,b,c,d > > 13 > > Consumer Rights > > A,b,c,d > > > > > > > > *Working Groups* > > Having read the feedback from the Survey that was done by Norbert Bollow > some time ago, it is clear that it is far more beneficial to develop > positions on key issues prior to deciding which forums the IGC is going to > engage in. The Working Groups will mean that interested IGC subscribers > can volunteer their names to be part of the Working Group. They can also > volunteer to lead the Groups. For now it will be good if we agreed on a > model for coordination, enlist volunteers etc. > > > *Focus of Working Groups* > > Working Groups can be tasked to do the following in each of their Policy > Areas, namely:- > > > 1. *Create a repository of all submissions and Statements > made by the IGC or other Civil Society organizations: *This can be > done by going through the ListServe Archives, UN Publications etc; > 2. *Identify the issues:* What the issues are? Have these > been addressed? Recommendations > 3. *Identify Forums for Advocacy:* presentation of the IGC > position > 4. *Preparation of an Information Paper : *summary of issues, > advocacy options > 5. *Generating Discussion:* Generating Discussion with the > IGC and assisting the IGC in formulating consensus position in the policy > area > > There are a few options available to the IGC and that is whether we would > like to have Working Groups that is based on the Policy Clusters could mean > something like this. Please note that the Policy Clusters are far more > expansive and include things like International Trade and issues tabled for > discussions in relation to the WCIT. > > > > *Model 1* > > *Working Group* > > *Policy Cluster Description* > > *Policy Areas* > > A > > Issues Relating to Infrastructure and Management of Critical Internet > Resources, including administration of domain name systems and Internet > Protocol Addresses, Administration of the root server system, technical > standards, peering and interconnection, telecommunications infrastructure, > including innovative and convergent technologies, as well as > multilingualization > > > > > > #1, #2, #3, #4, #5 > > B > > Issues relating to the use of the Internet including spam, network > security and cyber crime; > > > > #6, #7 > > C > > Issues that are relevant to the Internet but have an impact much wider > than the Internet such as Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) and > International Trade > > #8, #9, #10, #11, #12, #13 > > d > > Issues relating to the developmental aspects of Internet Governance in > particular capacity building in developing countries > > #8, #9, #10, #11, #12, #13 > > > > * * > > *Model 2* > > To have 13 Working Groups to specifically work in the following policy > areas. > > *No.* > > *#* > > *POLICY AREAS* > > *POLICY CLUSTER* > > 1 > > Administration of the Root Zones, Files and Systems > > a > > 2 > > Interconnection Costs > > a > > 3 > > Allocation of Domain Names > > a > > 4 > > IP Addressing > > a > > 5 > > Multilingualism > > a > > 6 > > Internet Stability, Security and Cyber Crime > > b > > 7 > > Spam > > b > > 8 > > Intellectual Property Rights > > c > > 9 > > Meaningful Participation in Global Policy Development > > a, b, c, d > > 10 > > Capacity Building > > A,b,c,d > > 11 > > Freedom of Expression > > A,b,c,d > > 12 > > Data Protection and Privacy Rights > > A,b,c,d > > 13 > > Consumer Rights > > A,b,c,d > > > > * * > > ------------------------------ > > [1] <#139ad738dd8aa2f7__ftnref1> Report of the Working Group on Internet > Governance 2005, Chateau de Bossey in > http://www.wgig.org/docs/WGIGREPORT.pdf > > [2] <#139ad738dd8aa2f7__ftnref2> ibid > > > > > > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Sat Sep 15 00:54:45 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 16:54:45 +1200 Subject: [governance] Brainstorming [Improvements to IGC Coordination on IG Policies] #Working Groups In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Paul and Charity, I am noting your areas of interest. Kind Regards, Sala On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 4:47 PM, Charity Gamboa wrote: > I can work on groups pertaining to capacity building or anything that > would lean on education. Thanks! > > Charity > > On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 6:52 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < > salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Dear All, >> >> As you can imagine, we are constantly faced with the challenges of >> improving the manner in which we coordinate advocacy in policy areas >> pertaining to Internet Governance. Following the current evaluation of the >> IGC, we will issue another Survey to generate suggestions on how we can >> improve out internal coordination as the IGC. Things like developing >> positions on Policy areas. >> The IGC has following consensus developed positions on certain areas such >> as Freedom of Expression, Remote Participation, Human Rights etc. Noting >> that with critical forums looming namely, the IGF and other forums that >> will require global input from the IGC, I have put together some thoughts. >> Let me have your comments. >> >> >> *Background* >> >> Following the recent Survey conducted by the IGC there is consensus that >> there is a need to enhance the coordination of advocacy of critical >> Internet Governance issues in key Forums aside from the IGF. As such, we >> would like to gather your views about how we are going to go about >> achieving the same. >> >> >> The WGIG 2005 Report had identified 4 Public Policy Clusters namely[1]<#139c8408bad861cc_139ad738dd8aa2f7__ftn1> >> :- >> >> a) (a) Issues Relating to Infrastructure and Management of Critical >> Internet Resources, including administration of domain name systems and >> Internet Protocol Addresses, Administration of the root server system, >> technical standards, peering and interconnection, telecommunications >> infrastructure, including innovative and convergent technologies, as well >> as multilingualization; >> >> b) (b) Issues relating to the use of the Internet including spam, >> network security and cyber crime; >> >> c) (c.) Issues that are relevant to the Internet but have an impact >> much wider than the Internet such as Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) and >> International Trade; >> >> d) (d.) Issues relating to the developmental aspects of Internet >> Governance in particular capacity building in developing countries. >> >> The WGIG then highlighted critical policy areas for the attention of the >> WSIS[2] <#139c8408bad861cc_139ad738dd8aa2f7__ftn2>. The Table below >> illustrates the Policy Cluster as well as the policy issues. >> >> *No.* >> >> *#* >> >> *POLICY AREAS* >> >> *POLICY CLUSTER* >> >> 1 >> >> Administration of the Root Zones, Files and Systems >> >> a >> >> 2 >> >> Interconnection Costs >> >> a >> >> 3 >> >> Allocation of Domain Names >> >> a >> >> 4 >> >> IP Addressing >> >> a >> >> 5 >> >> Multilingualism >> >> a >> >> 6 >> >> Internet Stability, Security and Cyber Crime >> >> b >> >> 7 >> >> Spam >> >> b >> >> 8 >> >> Intellectual Property Rights >> >> c >> >> 9 >> >> Meaningful Participation in Global Policy Development >> >> a, b, c, d >> >> 10 >> >> Capacity Building >> >> A,b,c,d >> >> 11 >> >> Freedom of Expression >> >> A,b,c,d >> >> 12 >> >> Data Protection and Privacy Rights >> >> A,b,c,d >> >> 13 >> >> Consumer Rights >> >> A,b,c,d >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *Working Groups* >> >> Having read the feedback from the Survey that was done by Norbert Bollow >> some time ago, it is clear that it is far more beneficial to develop >> positions on key issues prior to deciding which forums the IGC is going to >> engage in. The Working Groups will mean that interested IGC subscribers >> can volunteer their names to be part of the Working Group. They can also >> volunteer to lead the Groups. For now it will be good if we agreed on a >> model for coordination, enlist volunteers etc. >> >> >> *Focus of Working Groups* >> >> Working Groups can be tasked to do the following in each of their Policy >> Areas, namely:- >> >> >> 1. *Create a repository of all submissions and Statements >> made by the IGC or other Civil Society organizations: *This can be >> done by going through the ListServe Archives, UN Publications etc; >> 2. *Identify the issues:* What the issues are? Have these >> been addressed? Recommendations >> 3. *Identify Forums for Advocacy:* presentation of the IGC >> position >> 4. *Preparation of an Information Paper : *summary of >> issues, advocacy options >> 5. *Generating Discussion:* Generating Discussion with the >> IGC and assisting the IGC in formulating consensus position in the policy >> area >> >> There are a few options available to the IGC and that is whether we would >> like to have Working Groups that is based on the Policy Clusters could mean >> something like this. Please note that the Policy Clusters are far more >> expansive and include things like International Trade and issues tabled for >> discussions in relation to the WCIT. >> >> >> >> *Model 1* >> >> *Working Group* >> >> *Policy Cluster Description* >> >> *Policy Areas* >> >> A >> >> Issues Relating to Infrastructure and Management of Critical Internet >> Resources, including administration of domain name systems and Internet >> Protocol Addresses, Administration of the root server system, technical >> standards, peering and interconnection, telecommunications infrastructure, >> including innovative and convergent technologies, as well as >> multilingualization >> >> >> >> >> >> #1, #2, #3, #4, #5 >> >> B >> >> Issues relating to the use of the Internet including spam, network >> security and cyber crime; >> >> >> >> #6, #7 >> >> C >> >> Issues that are relevant to the Internet but have an impact much wider >> than the Internet such as Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) and >> International Trade >> >> #8, #9, #10, #11, #12, #13 >> >> d >> >> Issues relating to the developmental aspects of Internet Governance in >> particular capacity building in developing countries >> >> #8, #9, #10, #11, #12, #13 >> >> >> >> * * >> >> *Model 2* >> >> To have 13 Working Groups to specifically work in the following policy >> areas. >> >> *No.* >> >> *#* >> >> *POLICY AREAS* >> >> *POLICY CLUSTER* >> >> 1 >> >> Administration of the Root Zones, Files and Systems >> >> a >> >> 2 >> >> Interconnection Costs >> >> a >> >> 3 >> >> Allocation of Domain Names >> >> a >> >> 4 >> >> IP Addressing >> >> a >> >> 5 >> >> Multilingualism >> >> a >> >> 6 >> >> Internet Stability, Security and Cyber Crime >> >> b >> >> 7 >> >> Spam >> >> b >> >> 8 >> >> Intellectual Property Rights >> >> c >> >> 9 >> >> Meaningful Participation in Global Policy Development >> >> a, b, c, d >> >> 10 >> >> Capacity Building >> >> A,b,c,d >> >> 11 >> >> Freedom of Expression >> >> A,b,c,d >> >> 12 >> >> Data Protection and Privacy Rights >> >> A,b,c,d >> >> 13 >> >> Consumer Rights >> >> A,b,c,d >> >> >> >> * * >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> [1] <#139c8408bad861cc_139ad738dd8aa2f7__ftnref1> Report of the Working >> Group on Internet Governance 2005, Chateau de Bossey in >> http://www.wgig.org/docs/WGIGREPORT.pdf >> >> [2] <#139c8408bad861cc_139ad738dd8aa2f7__ftnref2> ibid >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala >> P.O. Box 17862 >> Suva >> Fiji >> >> Twitter: @SalanietaT >> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro >> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 >> >> >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Sat Sep 15 02:35:41 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 09:35:41 +0300 Subject: [governance] African CS dialogue on IG: Invitation In-Reply-To: <50538B18.8070204@apc.org> References: <2FFF6C8B-AB51-44C3-9F4A-59B48F743D4B@apc.org> <50536371.6020100@apc.org> <8CF60B72476B741-128C-62EFC@webmail-m155.sysops.aol.com> <50538B18.8070204@apc.org> Message-ID: <505421BD.2050402@gmail.com> The HRC, and in general there "General Commentaries" clarifying, elucidating and expanding, are typically late to arrive. This is because of the "natural" tendency for issues to evolve slowly until they are capable of crisply rendered in rather minimalist laws (minimalist in the sense of capable of definition and delineation)... For an interesting historical take on social change see perhaps http://socserv2.socsci.mcmaster.ca/econ/ugcm/3ll3/schmoller/justice Riaz On 2012/09/14 10:52 PM, Anriette Esterhuysen wrote: > Dear Rony > > The potential of the HRC resolution is that it pressurises existing > human rights mechanisms at national, regional and global levels to > enforce these rights. > > It is not just a principle. It empowers/compels mechanisms. It also > means that mandate holders of the HRC can be requested to visit and > investigate conditions in particular countries. > > And, it means that these rights can be monitored in the Universal > Periodic Review process where governments have to make commitments to > implemented changes and they have 4 years to do so. For civil society > watch dogs and rights defenders this is all incredibly useful. > > Read about the 'real name' policy case in South Korea - Jinbonet started > its struggle against this policy (intended to prevent people from > communicating under aliases online) at the Human Rights Council. They > have just won a huge victory with this policy being declared > unconstitutional. It is not the end of the struggle, and it has taken > many years, but it demonstrates that human rights mechanisms and > standards can work. > > http://www.apc.org/en/news/victory-freedom-expression-south-korea > > Anriette > > > > > On 14/09/2012 19:40, Koven Ronald wrote: >> Dear Anriette -- >> >> >> I'm afraid the Human Rights Council's "landmark" resolution is >> something of a Johnny-come-lately. >> >> >> Back in 1997, the General Conference of the UNESCO member states >> formally endorsed the Declaration of Sofia of the UN/UNESCO European >> Seminar on Promoting Independent and Pluralistic Media, saying:in its >> Point 10: >> >> >> "The advent of new information and communication technologies >> representing new channels for the free flow of information could and >> should contribute to pluralism, economic and social development, >> democracy and peace. The access to and the use of these new media >> should be afforded the same freedom of expression protections as >> traditional media." >> >> >> (Immodestly, that was an amendment I introduced.) >> >> >> Cheers, Rony Koven >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Anriette Esterhuysen >> To: governance >> Sent: Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:04 pm Subject: [governance] African CS >> dialogue on IG: Invitation >> >> >> Dear friends and colleagues >> >> [French below] >> >> INVITATION TO JOIN ONLINE DIALOGUE! >> >> We invite you to join an online dialogue among African civil society, >> media and other people who care about a free, open and accessible >> internet to share their views and increase their understanding of >> current trends in internet regulation and governance. >> >> The UN's Human Rights Council adopted a landmark resolution in 2012 >> that 'human rights apply online as well as offline'. We need to be >> aware of this and help promote the application of this decision at >> all levels of internet policy and regulation. >> >> The dialogue should help us consider questions such as: >> >> 1. What are the implications of the HRC resolution for our work? >> >> 2. How does it relate to broader debates on human rights, governance >> and development? >> >> 3. What do you think are the fundamental principles that should >> frame and guide the decision-making processes that shape the >> evolution of the internet - at infrastructure level as well as at >> access and usage level? >> >> 4. What are your suggestions to improve the participation of African >> constituencies in the coordination of the internet global resources >> as well as in related policy-making processes? >> >> 5. What are the specific changes you would like to see, if any, >> across the range of entities and processes that carry out the >> governance of the internet? >> >> Aside from these broader questions it is also crucial that we >> consider upcoming processes such as the African Internet Governance >> Forum (Oct), the global Internet Governance Forum (Nov) and the >> review of the International Telecommunications Regulations (ITRs) at >> the ITU's World Conference on International Telecommunications (WCIT) >> (Dec). >> >> It is hoped that this platform will strengthen African civil >> society's engagement with internet governance processes at national, >> regional and global levels and enable us to contribute to shaping the >> future development of the internet and the telecommunications >> networks most of us depend on for access. >> >> To join this discussion do one of the following: >> >> 1) Go to https://lists.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/africs-ig and follow >> the instructions to join the mailing list. 2) Write to Mawaki Chango >> at mawaki at apc.org and he will add your email to the list. 3) Visit >> our background page http://africa-ig.wiki.apc.org/index.php/Main_Page >> to learn more about this process. >> >> Looking forward to hearing your views and questions. Remember there >> is no such thing as a 'stupid question'! Don't feel intimidated by >> jargon and concepts that you don't fully understand. As a community >> of African internet users we will be able to learn from one another. >> >> Staff and members of the Association for Progressive Communications >> will help facilitate this discusssion. Participants are free to post >> in English and French. We will develop regular summaries and post >> them in both languages. >> >> Warm regards from the APC Africa policy team >> >> Mawaki Chango Emilar Vushe Anriette Esterhuysen >> >> ============================================================== Chers >> amis et collègues, here you go: Chers amis et collègues, Nous vous >> invitons à vous joindre à un dialogue tenu par les groupes africains >> de société civile, les médias et d'autres groupes qui tiennent à >> coeur un internet libre, accessible et abordable afin de partager vos >> opinions et ainsi accroître la compréhension de tous des tendances >> actuelles par rapport à la régulation et la gouvernance de >> l'internet. >> >> Le Conseil des droits de l'homme des Nations unies a adopté une >> résolution historique en 2012 qui dicte que les « droits de l'homme >> s'appliquent tant en ligne qu’hors ligne ». Nous devons être >> vigilants et aider à promouvoir l'application de cette décision à >> tous les niveaux de la régulation et la formulation de politiques >> d'internet. >> >> Le dialogue nous aidera à considérer des questions comme : >> >> Quel est l'effet de la résolution du Conseil des droits de l'homme >> sur notre travail? Comment celle-ci se place t-elle en relation avec >> les plus grandes questions qui traitent des droits humains, la >> gouvernance et le développement? Selon vous, quels sont les principes >> fondamentaux qui devraient encadrer le guide et le processus de prise >> de décision pour façonner l'évolution de l'internet – au niveau de >> l'infrastructure ainsi qu'au niveau d'accès et d'usage? Selon vous, >> comment pourrait-on améliorer la participation des circonscriptions >> africaines dans la coordination des ressources globales de >> l'internet, ainsi que dans le processus de formulation de >> politiques? Quels changements spécifiques aimeriez-vous voir dans le >> processus et les organisations impliquées dans la gouvernance de >> l'internet? >> >> Au-delà de ces grandes questions, il est aussi important de >> considérer les processus à venir, tels que le Forum sur la >> gouvernance de l'internet africain (en octobre), le Forum sur la >> gouvernance de l'internet mondial (novembre) et la revue des >> Régulateurs internationaux des télécommunications (RIT) lors de la >> conférence par mondiale Union internationale des télécommunications >> (UIT) (décembre) >> >> Nous espérons que cette plateforme renforcera l'engagement de la >> société civile africaine dans le processus de la gouvernance de >> l'internet aux niveaux national, régional et global, et nous >> permettra de contribuer au développement de l'internet et des réseaux >> de télécommunications sur lesquels la plupart d'entre nous sommes >> dépendants pour accéder à l'internet. >> >> Afin de vous joindre à la discussion, vous n'avez qu'à : >> >> 1) vous inscrire à la liste >> https://lists.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/africs-ig 2) envoyer une >> demande à Mawaki Chango mawaki at apc.org pour qu'il vous ajoute à la >> liste 3) vous renseigner davantage sur le processus >> http://africa-ig.wiki.apc.org/index.php/Main_Page >> >> Nous attendons avec impatience vos opinions et questions. >> Rappelez-vous qu'il n'existe pas de « question stupide ». Ne vous >> laissez pas intimider par les mots techniques ou concepts que vous >> ne comprenez pas. En tant que communauté d'utilisateurs internet >> africains, nous pouvons apprendre l'un de l'autre. >> >> Le personnel et les membres de l'Associaition pour le progrès des >> communications aideront à faciliter la discussion. Les participants >> sont libres à écrire en anglais ou français. Nous allons >> régulièrement produire des sommaires et les afficher dans les deux >> langues. >> >> Bien à vous, >> >> >> Lisa Cyr Communications, Media and Promotions Associate Adjointe aux >> communications Equipo de comunicación Skype: lisac_apc Association >> for Progressive Communications | www.apc.org @APC_News | >> @APCNouvelles |@APCNoticias >> >> ------------------------------------------------------ anriette >> esterhuysen anriette at apc.org executive director, association for >> progressive communications www.apc.org po box 29755, melville 2109 >> south africa tel/fax +27 11 726 1692 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ You >> received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to >> find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From bavouc at gmail.com Sat Sep 15 04:00:51 2012 From: bavouc at gmail.com (Martial Bavou[Private Business Account]) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 09:00:51 +0100 Subject: [governance] Brainstorming [Improvements to IGC Coordination on IG Policies] #Working Groups In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear, I can work on the following group: 6 Internet Stability, Security and Cyber Crime b 7 Spam b Regards From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Charity Gamboa Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 5:47 AM To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro Subject: Re: [governance] Brainstorming [Improvements to IGC Coordination on IG Policies] #Working Groups I can work on groups pertaining to capacity building or anything that would lean on education. Thanks! Charity On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 6:52 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote: Dear All, As you can imagine, we are constantly faced with the challenges of improving the manner in which we coordinate advocacy in policy areas pertaining to Internet Governance. Following the current evaluation of the IGC, we will issue another Survey to generate suggestions on how we can improve out internal coordination as the IGC. Things like developing positions on Policy areas. The IGC has following consensus developed positions on certain areas such as Freedom of Expression, Remote Participation, Human Rights etc. Noting that with critical forums looming namely, the IGF and other forums that will require global input from the IGC, I have put together some thoughts. Let me have your comments. Background Following the recent Survey conducted by the IGC there is consensus that there is a need to enhance the coordination of advocacy of critical Internet Governance issues in key Forums aside from the IGF. As such, we would like to gather your views about how we are going to go about achieving the same. The WGIG 2005 Report had identified 4 Public Policy Clusters namely[1]:- a) (a) Issues Relating to Infrastructure and Management of Critical Internet Resources, including administration of domain name systems and Internet Protocol Addresses, Administration of the root server system, technical standards, peering and interconnection, telecommunications infrastructure, including innovative and convergent technologies, as well as multilingualization; b) (b) Issues relating to the use of the Internet including spam, network security and cyber crime; c) (c.) Issues that are relevant to the Internet but have an impact much wider than the Internet such as Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) and International Trade; d) (d.) Issues relating to the developmental aspects of Internet Governance in particular capacity building in developing countries. The WGIG then highlighted critical policy areas for the attention of the WSIS[2]. The Table below illustrates the Policy Cluster as well as the policy issues. No. # POLICY AREAS POLICY CLUSTER 1 Administration of the Root Zones, Files and Systems a 2 Interconnection Costs a 3 Allocation of Domain Names a 4 IP Addressing a 5 Multilingualism a 6 Internet Stability, Security and Cyber Crime b 7 Spam b 8 Intellectual Property Rights c 9 Meaningful Participation in Global Policy Development a, b, c, d 10 Capacity Building A,b,c,d 11 Freedom of Expression A,b,c,d 12 Data Protection and Privacy Rights A,b,c,d 13 Consumer Rights A,b,c,d Working Groups Having read the feedback from the Survey that was done by Norbert Bollow some time ago, it is clear that it is far more beneficial to develop positions on key issues prior to deciding which forums the IGC is going to engage in. The Working Groups will mean that interested IGC subscribers can volunteer their names to be part of the Working Group. They can also volunteer to lead the Groups. For now it will be good if we agreed on a model for coordination, enlist volunteers etc. Focus of Working Groups Working Groups can be tasked to do the following in each of their Policy Areas, namely:- 1. Create a repository of all submissions and Statements made by the IGC or other Civil Society organizations: This can be done by going through the ListServe Archives, UN Publications etc; 2. Identify the issues: What the issues are? Have these been addressed? Recommendations 3. Identify Forums for Advocacy: presentation of the IGC position 4. Preparation of an Information Paper : summary of issues, advocacy options 5. Generating Discussion: Generating Discussion with the IGC and assisting the IGC in formulating consensus position in the policy area There are a few options available to the IGC and that is whether we would like to have Working Groups that is based on the Policy Clusters could mean something like this. Please note that the Policy Clusters are far more expansive and include things like International Trade and issues tabled for discussions in relation to the WCIT. Model 1 Working Group Policy Cluster Description Policy Areas A Issues Relating to Infrastructure and Management of Critical Internet Resources, including administration of domain name systems and Internet Protocol Addresses, Administration of the root server system, technical standards, peering and interconnection, telecommunications infrastructure, including innovative and convergent technologies, as well as multilingualization #1, #2, #3, #4, #5 B Issues relating to the use of the Internet including spam, network security and cyber crime; #6, #7 C Issues that are relevant to the Internet but have an impact much wider than the Internet such as Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) and International Trade #8, #9, #10, #11, #12, #13 d Issues relating to the developmental aspects of Internet Governance in particular capacity building in developing countries #8, #9, #10, #11, #12, #13 Model 2 To have 13 Working Groups to specifically work in the following policy areas. No. # POLICY AREAS POLICY CLUSTER 1 Administration of the Root Zones, Files and Systems a 2 Interconnection Costs a 3 Allocation of Domain Names a 4 IP Addressing a 5 Multilingualism a 6 Internet Stability, Security and Cyber Crime b 7 Spam b 8 Intellectual Property Rights c 9 Meaningful Participation in Global Policy Development a, b, c, d 10 Capacity Building A,b,c,d 11 Freedom of Expression A,b,c,d 12 Data Protection and Privacy Rights A,b,c,d 13 Consumer Rights A,b,c,d _____ [1] Report of the Working Group on Internet Governance 2005, Chateau de Bossey in http://www.wgig.org/docs/WGIGREPORT.pdf [2] ibid -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Sat Sep 15 04:20:04 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 20:20:04 +1200 Subject: [governance] Freedom of Expression #FoX #FoE #Yemen #Libya In-Reply-To: <8CF60891E839C44-128C-60CD7@webmail-m155.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CF60891E839C44-128C-60CD7@webmail-m155.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Dear Rony, One of the things that don't get discussed in my view often enough as far as Article 19 of the ICCPR is concerned is the exception and the abuse of the exceptions. This is because from observation, we are witnessing both extremes of the spectrum. These are what I perceive to be extremes:- - Absolute Freedom of Expression where there is a perception that this is an unfettered right; - Abuse of the Exceptions in Article 19 where this goes against the preamble of the ICCPR or the spirit in which these provisions were crafted. The events that occurred in Libya resulting from a person's freedom of expression led to the causing turbulence which resulted in a "viral spill over" (Aldo Matteuci) that not only threatened law and order but lives were taken. In Aldo's piece, he points to the French Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen 1789, see: "Article 10—No-one should be harassed for his opinions, even religious views, provided that the expression of such opinions does not cause a breach of the peace as established by law. Article 11—The free communication of thought and opinions is one of the most precious rights of man. Any citizen can therefore speak, write and publish freely; however, they are answerable for abuse of this freedom as determined by law." Source: http://www.diplomacy.edu/blog/168-%E2%80%93-i%E2%80%99m-deeply-saddened-today In my view, Article 19 of the ICCPR was not designed to be interpreted according to the two extremes, they were meant to be read in the spirit of the preamble. The reality is that the two extremes have the potential to bring about much harm to the ordinary person on the street. In the first extreme, we see with the case the effect that one "video" could incite such vehemence and hatred leading to the loss of innocent lives. The fact that the crafters of the French Declaration of the Rights of Man or the ICCPR could foresee challenges of both extremes meant that they had witnessed and made observations.History has been a great teacher but not so great if we continue to repeat our errors. Of course all this is based on the assumption that we all want "peace". On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 12:10 AM, Koven Ronald wrote: > Dear Sala -- > > I was very bothered by this statement of yours justifying restrictions > on freedom of expression. Of course, we all know that freedom of speech > can't be absolute. But proclaiming that evident home truth in difficult > contexts like the present crisis can only lend comfort to the > restrictionists of freedom of expression. > > There is a generally accepted Anglo-Saxon legal dictum: "Hard cases make > bad law." We seem to be confronted with just such a "hard case." Here is > a NYTimes article today on the dilemma of major I'net service providers > over stopping access to the offensive anti-Mohammed film: > http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/14/technology/google-blocks-inflammatory-video-in-egypt-and-libya.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20120914 > > The article reflects the understandably ambivalent responses of free > speech advocates to this crisis. The issue should be approached in a more > nuanced way than merely noting that freedom of expression isn't absolute. > > It seems to me that a more helpful approach, for example, is to note > that incitement to violence with the likelihood that the violence will > ensue is not legal anywhere, including under the anti-restrictionist US > First Amendment. One could argue that the film in question is just such an > incitement -- and that its producers likely knew that to be the case. That > would put a rather different light on restricting access to the film than > simply making a blanket statement to the effect that freedom of expression > is not absolute. > > Best regards, Rony Koven, World Press Freedom Committee > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro > To: governance > Sent: Thu, Sep 13, 2012 10:17 pm > Subject: [governance] Freedom of Expression #FoX #FoE #Yemen #Libya > > Dear All, > > International law is clear about Freedom of Expression not being an > unfettered right as espoused within these laws themselves and has been > discussed at great length on the list numerous times over. I was also > saddened that the irresponsible production of "content" was used to enflame > tension and accelerate unrest and cause a massive revolt amongst those that > were deeply offended by it. > > There is a piece written by Aldo, see: > http://www.diplomacy.edu/blog/168-%E2%80%93-i%E2%80%99m-deeply-saddened-today > > > Kind Regards, > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From zads911 at msn.com Sat Sep 15 04:58:13 2012 From: zads911 at msn.com (Mohamed zahran) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 08:58:13 +0000 Subject: [governance] Brainstorming [Improvements to IGC Coordination on IG Policies] #Working Groups In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: I cam work with the following group: 10 Capacity Building A,b,c,d 6 Internet Stability, Security and Cyber Crime b Regards, Mohamed Zahran From: bavouc at gmail.com To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; charityg at diplomacy.edu; salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 09:00:51 +0100 Subject: RE: [governance] Brainstorming [Improvements to IGC Coordination on IG Policies] #Working Groups Dear, I can work on the following group: 6Internet Stability, Security and Cyber Crimeb7Spamb Regards From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Charity Gamboa Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 5:47 AM To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro Subject: Re: [governance] Brainstorming [Improvements to IGC Coordination on IG Policies] #Working Groups I can work on groups pertaining to capacity building or anything that would lean on education. Thanks! CharityOn Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 6:52 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote:Dear All, As you can imagine, we are constantly faced with the challenges of improving the manner in which we coordinate advocacy in policy areas pertaining to Internet Governance. Following the current evaluation of the IGC, we will issue another Survey to generate suggestions on how we can improve out internal coordination as the IGC. Things like developing positions on Policy areas.The IGC has following consensus developed positions on certain areas such as Freedom of Expression, Remote Participation, Human Rights etc. Noting that with critical forums looming namely, the IGF and other forums that will require global input from the IGC, I have put together some thoughts. Let me have your comments. BackgroundFollowing the recent Survey conducted by the IGC there is consensus that there is a need to enhance the coordination of advocacy of critical Internet Governance issues in key Forums aside from the IGF. As such, we would like to gather your views about how we are going to go about achieving the same. The WGIG 2005 Report had identified 4 Public Policy Clusters namely[1]:-a) (a) Issues Relating to Infrastructure and Management of Critical Internet Resources, including administration of domain name systems and Internet Protocol Addresses, Administration of the root server system, technical standards, peering and interconnection, telecommunications infrastructure, including innovative and convergent technologies, as well as multilingualization;b) (b) Issues relating to the use of the Internet including spam, network security and cyber crime;c) (c.) Issues that are relevant to the Internet but have an impact much wider than the Internet such as Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) and International Trade;d) (d.) Issues relating to the developmental aspects of Internet Governance in particular capacity building in developing countries.The WGIG then highlighted critical policy areas for the attention of the WSIS[2]. The Table below illustrates the Policy Cluster as well as the policy issues.No.#POLICY AREASPOLICY CLUSTER1Administration of the Root Zones, Files and Systemsa2Interconnection Costsa3Allocation of Domain Namesa4IP Addressinga5Multilingualisma6Internet Stability, Security and Cyber Crimeb7Spamb8Intellectual Property Rightsc9Meaningful Participation in Global Policy Developmenta, b, c, d10Capacity BuildingA,b,c,d11Freedom of ExpressionA,b,c,d12Data Protection and Privacy RightsA,b,c,d13Consumer RightsA,b,c,d Working GroupsHaving read the feedback from the Survey that was done by Norbert Bollow some time ago, it is clear that it is far more beneficial to develop positions on key issues prior to deciding which forums the IGC is going to engage in. The Working Groups will mean that interested IGC subscribers can volunteer their names to be part of the Working Group. They can also volunteer to lead the Groups. For now it will be good if we agreed on a model for coordination, enlist volunteers etc. Focus of Working GroupsWorking Groups can be tasked to do the following in each of their Policy Areas, namely:- Create a repository of all submissions and Statements made by the IGC or other Civil Society organizations: This can be done by going through the ListServe Archives, UN Publications etc; Identify the issues: What the issues are? Have these been addressed? Recommendations Identify Forums for Advocacy: presentation of the IGC position Preparation of an Information Paper : summary of issues, advocacy options Generating Discussion: Generating Discussion with the IGC and assisting the IGC in formulating consensus position in the policy areaThere are a few options available to the IGC and that is whether we would like to have Working Groups that is based on the Policy Clusters could mean something like this. Please note that the Policy Clusters are far more expansive and include things like International Trade and issues tabled for discussions in relation to the WCIT. Model 1Working GroupPolicy Cluster DescriptionPolicy AreasAIssues Relating to Infrastructure and Management of Critical Internet Resources, including administration of domain name systems and Internet Protocol Addresses, Administration of the root server system, technical standards, peering and interconnection, telecommunications infrastructure, including innovative and convergent technologies, as well as multilingualization #1, #2, #3, #4, #5BIssues relating to the use of the Internet including spam, network security and cyber crime; #6, #7CIssues that are relevant to the Internet but have an impact much wider than the Internet such as Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) and International Trade#8, #9, #10, #11, #12, #13dIssues relating to the developmental aspects of Internet Governance in particular capacity building in developing countries#8, #9, #10, #11, #12, #13 Model 2To have 13 Working Groups to specifically work in the following policy areas.No.#POLICY AREASPOLICY CLUSTER1Administration of the Root Zones, Files and Systemsa2Interconnection Costsa3Allocation of Domain Namesa4IP Addressinga5Multilingualisma6Internet Stability, Security and Cyber Crimeb7Spamb8Intellectual Property Rightsc9Meaningful Participation in Global Policy Developmenta, b, c, d10Capacity BuildingA,b,c,d11Freedom of ExpressionA,b,c,d12Data Protection and Privacy RightsA,b,c,d13Consumer RightsA,b,c,d [1] Report of the Working Group on Internet Governance 2005, Chateau de Bossey in http://www.wgig.org/docs/WGIGREPORT.pdf[2] ibid -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka SalaP.O. Box 17862SuvaFiji Twitter: @SalanietaTSkype:Salanieta.TamanikaiwaimaroFiji Cell: +679 998 2851 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From nne75 at yahoo.com Sun Sep 16 10:58:22 2012 From: nne75 at yahoo.com (Nnenna) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 07:58:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [governance] Brainstorming [Improvements to IGC Coordination on IG Policies] #Working Groups In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1347807502.84981.YahooMailNeo@web120101.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Color me D. Development.   Nnenna  Nwakanma |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG  |  Consultants Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471 |Mob. 07416820 Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065| http://www.nnenna.org nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 | nnennaorg.blogspot.com ________________________________ From: Charity Gamboa To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 4:47 AM Subject: Re: [governance] Brainstorming [Improvements to IGC Coordination on IG Policies] #Working Groups I can work on groups pertaining to capacity building or anything that would lean on education. Thanks! Charity On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 6:52 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote: Dear All, > > >As you can imagine, we are constantly faced with the challenges of improving the manner in which we coordinate advocacy in policy areas pertaining to Internet Governance. Following the current evaluation of the IGC, we will issue another Survey to generate suggestions on how we can improve out internal coordination as the IGC. Things like developing positions on Policy areas. >The IGC has following consensus developed positions on certain areas such as Freedom of Expression, Remote Participation, Human Rights etc. Noting that with critical forums looming namely, the IGF and other forums that will require global input from the IGC, I have put together some thoughts. Let me have your comments. > > > > >Background >Following the recent Survey conducted by the IGC there is consensus that there is a need to enhance the coordination of advocacy of critical Internet Governance issues in key Forums aside from the IGF.  As such, we would like to gather your views about how we are going to go about achieving the same. > > >The WGIG 2005 Report had identified 4 Public Policy Clusters namely[1]:- >a)     (a) Issues Relating to Infrastructure and Management of Critical Internet Resources, including administration of domain name systems and Internet Protocol Addresses, Administration of the root server system, technical standards, peering and interconnection, telecommunications infrastructure, including innovative and convergent technologies, as well as multilingualization; >b)     (b) Issues relating to the use of the Internet including spam, network security and cyber crime; >c)      (c.) Issues that are relevant to the Internet but have an impact much wider than the Internet such as Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) and International Trade; >d)    (d.) Issues relating to the developmental aspects of Internet Governance in particular capacity building in developing countries. >The WGIG then highlighted critical policy areas for the attention of the WSIS[2]. The Table below illustrates the Policy Cluster as well as the policy issues. >No. ># POLICY AREAS POLICY CLUSTER >1 Administration of the Root Zones, Files and Systems a >2 Interconnection Costs a >3 Allocation of Domain Names a >4 IP Addressing a >5 Multilingualism a >6 Internet Stability, Security and Cyber Crime b >7 Spam b >8 Intellectual Property Rights c >9 Meaningful Participation in Global Policy Development a, b, c, d >10 Capacity Building A,b,c,d >11 Freedom of Expression A,b,c,d >12 Data Protection and Privacy Rights A,b,c,d >13 Consumer Rights A,b,c,d >  > >  >  >Working Groups >Having read the feedback from the Survey that was done by Norbert Bollow some time ago, it is clear that it is far more beneficial to develop positions on key issues prior to deciding which forums the IGC is going to engage in.  The Working Groups will mean that interested IGC subscribers can volunteer their names to be part of the Working Group. They can also volunteer to lead the Groups. For now it will be good if we agreed on a model for coordination, enlist volunteers etc.  > > >Focus of Working Groups >Working Groups can be tasked to do the following in each of their Policy Areas, namely:- > 1.          Create a repository of all submissions and Statements made by the IGC or other Civil Society organizations: This can be done by going through the ListServe Archives, UN Publications etc; > 2.          Identify the issues:What the issues are? Have these been addressed? Recommendations > 3.          Identify Forums for Advocacy:presentation of the IGC position > 4.          Preparation of an Information Paper : summary of issues, advocacy options > 5.          Generating Discussion:Generating Discussion with the IGC and assisting the IGC in formulating consensus position in the policy area >There are a few options available to the IGC and that is whether we would like to have Working Groups that is based on the Policy Clusters could mean something like this. Please note that the Policy Clusters are far more expansive and include things like International Trade and issues tabled for discussions in relation to the WCIT. > > > > >Model  1 >Working Group Policy Cluster Description Policy Areas >A Issues Relating to Infrastructure and Management of Critical Internet Resources, including administration of domain name systems and Internet Protocol Addresses, Administration of the root server system, technical standards, peering and interconnection, telecommunications infrastructure, including innovative and convergent technologies, as well as multilingualization   >  >#1, #2, #3, #4, #5 >B Issues relating to the use of the Internet including spam, network security and cyber crime; >  #6, #7 >C Issues that are relevant to the Internet but have an impact much wider than the Internet such as Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) and International Trade #8, #9, #10, #11, #12, #13 >d Issues relating to the developmental aspects of Internet Governance in particular capacity building in developing countries #8, #9, #10, #11, #12, #13 >  >  >Model 2 >To have 13 Working Groups to specifically work in the following policy areas. >No. ># POLICY AREAS POLICY CLUSTER >1 Administration of the Root Zones, Files and Systems a >2 Interconnection Costs a >3 Allocation of Domain Names a >4 IP Addressing a >5 Multilingualism a >6 Internet Stability, Security and Cyber Crime b >7 Spam b >8 Intellectual Property Rights c >9 Meaningful Participation in Global Policy Development a, b, c, d >10 Capacity Building A,b,c,d >11 Freedom of Expression A,b,c,d >12 Data Protection and Privacy Rights A,b,c,d >13 Consumer Rights A,b,c,d >  >  > >>________________________________ > >[1] Report of the Working Group on Internet Governance 2005, Chateau de Bossey in  http://www.wgig.org/docs/WGIGREPORT.pdf >[2] ibid > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > >Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala >P.O. Box 17862 >Suva >Fiji > > >Twitter: @SalanietaT >Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro >Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > >  > > > >____________________________________________________________ >You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >     governance at lists.igcaucus.org >To be removed from the list, visit: >     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > >For all other list information and functions, see: >     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >     http://www.igcaucus.org/ > >Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list:     governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit:     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see:     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:     http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From anriette at apc.org Sun Sep 16 12:34:54 2012 From: anriette at apc.org (Anriette Esterhuysen) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 18:34:54 +0200 Subject: [governance] Brainstorming [Improvements to IGC Coordination on IG Policies] #Working Groups In-Reply-To: <1347807502.84981.YahooMailNeo@web120101.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1347807502.84981.YahooMailNeo@web120101.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5055FFAE.5030608@apc.org> Dear all I am not able to volunteer for a working group - apologies. As it is I am battling to stay up to date with the list. I do have a suggestion for improving coordination. 1) Subject lines Can the coordinators help us to make sure subject lines match the actual discussion? It would make it much easier for people who don't have time to read constantly. 2) Summaries There have been some really good discussions and debates. Summarising some of them would be a great way of recording progress in these discussions and debates, as well as making it easier for people who can't read everything every day to follow. Best Anriette -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From charlespmok at gmail.com Sun Sep 16 12:46:11 2012 From: charlespmok at gmail.com (Charles Mok (gmail)) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 00:46:11 +0800 Subject: [governance] Congratulations Charles Mok from the IGC! #Hong Kong Elections In-Reply-To: References: <1347268562397084500@crossriverstate.gov.ng> Message-ID: Dear friends, Thank you for your kind messages!! Sorry for my late reply here....I am still catching up with the messages I have received! But every message is important and so kind to me, and such encouragement! Thank you again! Charles On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 11:38 PM, Kabani wrote: > Congratulation, - Charles Mok > > From > Asif Kabani > > > On 10 September 2012 14:16, Sonigitu Ekpe < > sonigituekpe at crossriverstate.gov.ng> wrote: > >> Dear All, >> >> The cap fits Charles Mok, hence the overwhelming victory. >> Congrats Charles. >> >> -- >> Sonigitu Ekpe >> *Project Support Officer[Agriculturist]* >> Cross River Farm Credit Scheme >> Ministry of Agriculture and Natural Resources >> 3 Barracks Road P.M.B. 1119 >> Calabar - Cross River State, Nigeria. >> Mobile +234 805 0232 469 Office + 234 802 751 0179 >> *"LIFE is all about love and thanksgiving" * >> Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote: >> >> Dear All, >> >> Please join me in warmly congratulating Charles Mok who has just won a >> seat of the Information Technology Functional Constituency for the Hong >> Kong Legislative Council with 2, 828 votes, against Samson Tam his only >> opponent (2063) votes. >> >> I am super glad that Hong Kong has a dynamic, intelligent, hard working >> advocate as one of its Legislative Councillor. >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Mok >> >> With every best wish Charles! >> >> Sala >> >> On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 3:42 PM, Charles Mok (gmail) < >> charlespmok at gmail.com> wrote: >> Similar happened in HK yesterday and about 10 social activists including >> one opposition legislator had their fb accounts suspended for a few hours. >> I contacted fb public policy people and around the same time their >> accounts gradually came back unblocked. fb has not provided clear >> explanation of the reasons. >> >> English report: (paid content) >> >> http://www.scmp.com/portal/site/SCMP/menuitem.2c913216495213d5df646910cba0a0a0/?vgnextoid=445f1383709a7310VgnVCM100000360a0a0aRCRD&vgnextfmt=teaser&ss=Hong+Kong&s=News >> >> Widely reported in Chinese newspapers also. >> >> Charles >> >> >> On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 9:00 AM, michael gurstein wrote: >> Oksana, >> >> Why/on whose orders/recommendation were they blocked? >> >> M >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org >> [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Oksana >> Prykhodko >> Sent: Friday, June 01, 2012 6:24 PM >> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; William Drake >> Subject: Re: [governance] Facebook profiles blocked and content removed in >> Brazil >> >> >> Hi, all >> >> Today Facebook blocked accounts of nearly 10 Ukrainian independent >> journalists. But, after active campaign in social media and addresses to >> Facebook CEO, these accounts were unblocked. >> >> May be it is time to think about ombudsmen for social media - as a >> mediator >> between users and CEO? >> >> Best regards, >> Oksana >> >> 2012/6/1 William Drake : >> > Hi Marilia >> > >> > >> > On May 31, 2012, at 11:28 PM, Marilia Maciel wrote: >> > >> > I am totally in favor of achieving "harmony" on this and other topics. >> > But this is a crossborder issue that involves private forces and >> > public interest. Tell me the place where we can globally tackle this >> > issue, all together, in a multistakeholder fashion and I will be the >> > first to attend and try to contribute so that “harmony” can come >> > about. But first we probably need to fight for such a space to exist. >> > >> > >> > I guess I'm with Roland and others who'd note that the Internet is not >> > the web and the web is not FB, so while FB's TOR are overly paranoid >> > and restrictive, there are other places to post stuff, and it's at >> > least debatable whether this rises to the level of being global >> > Internet governance. But I have different questions. In >> > conversations in Geneva and here (and the IT4C letter did the same), >> > you've cited FB policies as evidence there's an urgent need for >> > enhanced cooperation in the form of a platform under the UN. But why >> > not organize an online campaign---per ACTA SOPA PIPA—of fellow FB >> > users to put pressure on FB directly (and for that matter, use the IGF >> > in parallel to stoke the debate), rather than creating a centralized >> > uber mechanism responsible for this and all else? >> > Why do you think a WG/CIRP/whatever that would be populated inter alia >> by >> > Geneva reps of the very governments that make FB paranoid in the first >> place >> > would be more likely to agree that nudity is ok and FB should allow it >> > without fear of government reprisals? >> > >> > There are many CS and other actors who share your concerns about >> > individual issues---FoE IPR privacy surveillance etc---and the meta >> > issue of concentrated power but just have trouble seeing a one-stop >> > shop in the UN as the right solution. Since the case for why it would >> > be really hasn't been made in any detail, isn't there a risk that >> > insisting it's the only option left-minded people may consider (and in >> > some tellings, that any nonbelievers are morally suspect, don't care >> > about developing countries, etc) just limits coalition building? Can >> > we agree that at the Baku pre-event and beyond, it'd be useful to work >> > through the relative merits of different institutional designs? >> > Personally, I've always favored WGs in the IGF & >> > strengthening/connecting advocacy coalitions working in different >> > spaces (although as the APC network of networks effort showed, that's >> > difficult), but there are other options, a new UN body being just one. >> > So let's compare and contrast? >> > >> > Best, >> > >> > Bill >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> -- >> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala >> P.O. Box 17862 >> Suva >> Fiji >> >> Twitter: @SalanietaT >> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro >> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> __________________________________________________________________________ >> The information contained in this communication is confidential and may >> be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual >> or entity to whom it is addressed and others authorized to receive it. If >> you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any >> disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in reliance of the >> contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. >> Kindly destroy this message and notify the sender by replying the email in >> such instances. We do not accept responsibility for any changes made to >> this message after it was originally sent and any views, opinions, >> conclusions or other information in this message which do not relate to the >> business of this firm or are not authorized by us.The Cross River State >> Government is not liable neither for the proper and complete transmission >> of the information contained in this communication nor any delay in its >> receipt. >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > > -- > *Follow me @* > > > * **Before you print think about the** **ENVIRONMENT* > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From avri at ella.com Sun Sep 16 13:18:41 2012 From: avri at ella.com (Avri Doria) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 13:18:41 -0400 Subject: [governance] Brainstorming [Improvements to IGC Coordination on IG Policies] #Working Groups In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0EF44AC6-D668-4A45-9CC0-D5D084CB6421@ella.com> I think model 1 has a better chance of working than model 2. Ie. creating 4 productive WGs is less unlikely than creating 13 product WGs. i wish us luck because i think we should have productive WGs. but rarely have we managed to achieve it. I am glad to see the chairs have the energy to try once again. once the model is defined, I will try to volunteer. avri On 9 Sep 2012, at 19:52, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote: > Dear All, > > As you can imagine, we are constantly faced with the challenges of improving the manner in which we coordinate advocacy in policy areas pertaining to Internet Governance. Following the current evaluation of the IGC, we will issue another Survey to generate suggestions on how we can improve out internal coordination as the IGC. Things like developing positions on Policy areas. > The IGC has following consensus developed positions on certain areas such as Freedom of Expression, Remote Participation, Human Rights etc. Noting that with critical forums looming namely, the IGF and other forums that will require global input from the IGC, I have put together some thoughts. Let me have your comments. > > > Background > > Following the recent Survey conducted by the IGC there is consensus that there is a need to enhance the coordination of advocacy of critical Internet Governance issues in key Forums aside from the IGF. As such, we would like to gather your views about how we are going to go about achieving the same. > > > > The WGIG 2005 Report had identified 4 Public Policy Clusters namely[1]:- > > a) (a) Issues Relating to Infrastructure and Management of Critical Internet Resources, including administration of domain name systems and Internet Protocol Addresses, Administration of the root server system, technical standards, peering and interconnection, telecommunications infrastructure, including innovative and convergent technologies, as well as multilingualization; > > b) (b) Issues relating to the use of the Internet including spam, network security and cyber crime; > > c) (c.) Issues that are relevant to the Internet but have an impact much wider than the Internet such as Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) and International Trade; > > d) (d.) Issues relating to the developmental aspects of Internet Governance in particular capacity building in developing countries. > > The WGIG then highlighted critical policy areas for the attention of the WSIS[2]. The Table below illustrates the Policy Cluster as well as the policy issues. > > No. > # > POLICY AREAS > POLICY CLUSTER > 1 > Administration of the Root Zones, Files and Systems > a > 2 > Interconnection Costs > a > 3 > Allocation of Domain Names > a > 4 > IP Addressing > a > 5 > Multilingualism > a > 6 > Internet Stability, Security and Cyber Crime > b > 7 > Spam > b > 8 > Intellectual Property Rights > c > 9 > Meaningful Participation in Global Policy Development > a, b, c, d > 10 > Capacity Building > A,b,c,d > 11 > Freedom of Expression > A,b,c,d > 12 > Data Protection and Privacy Rights > A,b,c,d > 13 > Consumer Rights > A,b,c,d > > > > > Working Groups > > Having read the feedback from the Survey that was done by Norbert Bollow some time ago, it is clear that it is far more beneficial to develop positions on key issues prior to deciding which forums the IGC is going to engage in. The Working Groups will mean that interested IGC subscribers can volunteer their names to be part of the Working Group. They can also volunteer to lead the Groups. For now it will be good if we agreed on a model for coordination, enlist volunteers etc. > > > > Focus of Working Groups > > Working Groups can be tasked to do the following in each of their Policy Areas, namely:- > > > • Create a repository of all submissions and Statements made by the IGC or other Civil Society organizations: This can be done by going through the ListServe Archives, UN Publications etc; > • Identify the issues: What the issues are? Have these been addressed? Recommendations > • Identify Forums for Advocacy: presentation of the IGC position > • Preparation of an Information Paper : summary of issues, advocacy options > • Generating Discussion: Generating Discussion with the IGC and assisting the IGC in formulating consensus position in the policy area > > There are a few options available to the IGC and that is whether we would like to have Working Groups that is based on the Policy Clusters could mean something like this. Please note that the Policy Clusters are far more expansive and include things like International Trade and issues tabled for discussions in relation to the WCIT. > > > > > > Model 1 > > Working Group > Policy Cluster Description > Policy Areas > A > Issues Relating to Infrastructure and Management of Critical Internet Resources, including administration of domain name systems and Internet Protocol Addresses, Administration of the root server system, technical standards, peering and interconnection, telecommunications infrastructure, including innovative and convergent technologies, as well as multilingualization > > > #1, #2, #3, #4, #5 > B > Issues relating to the use of the Internet including spam, network security and cyber crime; > > #6, #7 > C > Issues that are relevant to the Internet but have an impact much wider than the Internet such as Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) and International Trade > #8, #9, #10, #11, #12, #13 > d > Issues relating to the developmental aspects of Internet Governance in particular capacity building in developing countries > #8, #9, #10, #11, #12, #13 > > > > Model 2 > > To have 13 Working Groups to specifically work in the following policy areas. > > No. > # > POLICY AREAS > POLICY CLUSTER > 1 > Administration of the Root Zones, Files and Systems > a > 2 > Interconnection Costs > a > 3 > Allocation of Domain Names > a > 4 > IP Addressing > a > 5 > Multilingualism > a > 6 > Internet Stability, Security and Cyber Crime > b > 7 > Spam > b > 8 > Intellectual Property Rights > c > 9 > Meaningful Participation in Global Policy Development > a, b, c, d > 10 > Capacity Building > A,b,c,d > 11 > Freedom of Expression > A,b,c,d > 12 > Data Protection and Privacy Rights > A,b,c,d > 13 > Consumer Rights > A,b,c,d > > > > > [1] Report of the Working Group on Internet Governance 2005, Chateau de Bossey in http://www.wgig.org/docs/WGIGREPORT.pdf > > [2] ibid > > > > > > > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From sana.pryhod at gmail.com Sun Sep 16 14:08:01 2012 From: sana.pryhod at gmail.com (Oksana Prykhodko) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 21:08:01 +0300 Subject: [governance] Brainstorming [Improvements to IGC Coordination on IG Policies] #Working Groups In-Reply-To: <0EF44AC6-D668-4A45-9CC0-D5D084CB6421@ella.com> References: <0EF44AC6-D668-4A45-9CC0-D5D084CB6421@ella.com> Message-ID: Dear all, I am extremely interested in multilangualism. Best regards, Oksana 2012/9/16 Avri Doria : > > I think model 1 has a better chance of working than model 2. > Ie. creating 4 productive WGs is less unlikely than creating 13 product WGs. > > i wish us luck because i think we should have productive WGs. > but rarely have we managed to achieve it. > I am glad to see the chairs have the energy to try once again. > > once the model is defined, I will try to volunteer. > > avri > > > > > On 9 Sep 2012, at 19:52, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote: > >> Dear All, >> >> As you can imagine, we are constantly faced with the challenges of improving the manner in which we coordinate advocacy in policy areas pertaining to Internet Governance. Following the current evaluation of the IGC, we will issue another Survey to generate suggestions on how we can improve out internal coordination as the IGC. Things like developing positions on Policy areas. >> The IGC has following consensus developed positions on certain areas such as Freedom of Expression, Remote Participation, Human Rights etc. Noting that with critical forums looming namely, the IGF and other forums that will require global input from the IGC, I have put together some thoughts. Let me have your comments. >> >> >> Background >> >> Following the recent Survey conducted by the IGC there is consensus that there is a need to enhance the coordination of advocacy of critical Internet Governance issues in key Forums aside from the IGF. As such, we would like to gather your views about how we are going to go about achieving the same. >> >> >> >> The WGIG 2005 Report had identified 4 Public Policy Clusters namely[1]:- >> >> a) (a) Issues Relating to Infrastructure and Management of Critical Internet Resources, including administration of domain name systems and Internet Protocol Addresses, Administration of the root server system, technical standards, peering and interconnection, telecommunications infrastructure, including innovative and convergent technologies, as well as multilingualization; >> >> b) (b) Issues relating to the use of the Internet including spam, network security and cyber crime; >> >> c) (c.) Issues that are relevant to the Internet but have an impact much wider than the Internet such as Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) and International Trade; >> >> d) (d.) Issues relating to the developmental aspects of Internet Governance in particular capacity building in developing countries. >> >> The WGIG then highlighted critical policy areas for the attention of the WSIS[2]. The Table below illustrates the Policy Cluster as well as the policy issues. >> >> No. >> # >> POLICY AREAS >> POLICY CLUSTER >> 1 >> Administration of the Root Zones, Files and Systems >> a >> 2 >> Interconnection Costs >> a >> 3 >> Allocation of Domain Names >> a >> 4 >> IP Addressing >> a >> 5 >> Multilingualism >> a >> 6 >> Internet Stability, Security and Cyber Crime >> b >> 7 >> Spam >> b >> 8 >> Intellectual Property Rights >> c >> 9 >> Meaningful Participation in Global Policy Development >> a, b, c, d >> 10 >> Capacity Building >> A,b,c,d >> 11 >> Freedom of Expression >> A,b,c,d >> 12 >> Data Protection and Privacy Rights >> A,b,c,d >> 13 >> Consumer Rights >> A,b,c,d >> >> >> >> >> Working Groups >> >> Having read the feedback from the Survey that was done by Norbert Bollow some time ago, it is clear that it is far more beneficial to develop positions on key issues prior to deciding which forums the IGC is going to engage in. The Working Groups will mean that interested IGC subscribers can volunteer their names to be part of the Working Group. They can also volunteer to lead the Groups. For now it will be good if we agreed on a model for coordination, enlist volunteers etc. >> >> >> >> Focus of Working Groups >> >> Working Groups can be tasked to do the following in each of their Policy Areas, namely:- >> >> >> • Create a repository of all submissions and Statements made by the IGC or other Civil Society organizations: This can be done by going through the ListServe Archives, UN Publications etc; >> • Identify the issues: What the issues are? Have these been addressed? Recommendations >> • Identify Forums for Advocacy: presentation of the IGC position >> • Preparation of an Information Paper : summary of issues, advocacy options >> • Generating Discussion: Generating Discussion with the IGC and assisting the IGC in formulating consensus position in the policy area >> >> There are a few options available to the IGC and that is whether we would like to have Working Groups that is based on the Policy Clusters could mean something like this. Please note that the Policy Clusters are far more expansive and include things like International Trade and issues tabled for discussions in relation to the WCIT. >> >> >> >> >> >> Model 1 >> >> Working Group >> Policy Cluster Description >> Policy Areas >> A >> Issues Relating to Infrastructure and Management of Critical Internet Resources, including administration of domain name systems and Internet Protocol Addresses, Administration of the root server system, technical standards, peering and interconnection, telecommunications infrastructure, including innovative and convergent technologies, as well as multilingualization >> >> >> #1, #2, #3, #4, #5 >> B >> Issues relating to the use of the Internet including spam, network security and cyber crime; >> >> #6, #7 >> C >> Issues that are relevant to the Internet but have an impact much wider than the Internet such as Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) and International Trade >> #8, #9, #10, #11, #12, #13 >> d >> Issues relating to the developmental aspects of Internet Governance in particular capacity building in developing countries >> #8, #9, #10, #11, #12, #13 >> >> >> >> Model 2 >> >> To have 13 Working Groups to specifically work in the following policy areas. >> >> No. >> # >> POLICY AREAS >> POLICY CLUSTER >> 1 >> Administration of the Root Zones, Files and Systems >> a >> 2 >> Interconnection Costs >> a >> 3 >> Allocation of Domain Names >> a >> 4 >> IP Addressing >> a >> 5 >> Multilingualism >> a >> 6 >> Internet Stability, Security and Cyber Crime >> b >> 7 >> Spam >> b >> 8 >> Intellectual Property Rights >> c >> 9 >> Meaningful Participation in Global Policy Development >> a, b, c, d >> 10 >> Capacity Building >> A,b,c,d >> 11 >> Freedom of Expression >> A,b,c,d >> 12 >> Data Protection and Privacy Rights >> A,b,c,d >> 13 >> Consumer Rights >> A,b,c,d >> >> >> >> >> [1] Report of the Working Group on Internet Governance 2005, Chateau de Bossey in http://www.wgig.org/docs/WGIGREPORT.pdf >> >> [2] ibid >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala >> P.O. Box 17862 >> Suva >> Fiji >> >> Twitter: @SalanietaT >> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro >> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 >> >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Sun Sep 16 14:29:54 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 06:29:54 +1200 Subject: [governance] Brainstorming [Improvements to IGC Coordination on IG Policies] #Working Groups In-Reply-To: References: <0EF44AC6-D668-4A45-9CC0-D5D084CB6421@ella.com> Message-ID: Dear All, Thank you for your feedback, and we are noting your areas of interests as well. Thank you also for suggestions, comments, feedback and to indicate your areas of interest. Warm Regards, Sala On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 6:08 AM, Oksana Prykhodko wrote: > Dear all, > > I am extremely interested in multilangualism. > > Best regards, > Oksana > > 2012/9/16 Avri Doria : > > > > I think model 1 has a better chance of working than model 2. > > Ie. creating 4 productive WGs is less unlikely than creating 13 product > WGs. > > > > i wish us luck because i think we should have productive WGs. > > but rarely have we managed to achieve it. > > I am glad to see the chairs have the energy to try once again. > > > > once the model is defined, I will try to volunteer. > > > > avri > > > > > > > > > > On 9 Sep 2012, at 19:52, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote: > > > >> Dear All, > >> > >> As you can imagine, we are constantly faced with the challenges of > improving the manner in which we coordinate advocacy in policy areas > pertaining to Internet Governance. Following the current evaluation of the > IGC, we will issue another Survey to generate suggestions on how we can > improve out internal coordination as the IGC. Things like developing > positions on Policy areas. > >> The IGC has following consensus developed positions on certain areas > such as Freedom of Expression, Remote Participation, Human Rights etc. > Noting that with critical forums looming namely, the IGF and other forums > that will require global input from the IGC, I have put together some > thoughts. Let me have your comments. > >> > >> > >> Background > >> > >> Following the recent Survey conducted by the IGC there is consensus > that there is a need to enhance the coordination of advocacy of critical > Internet Governance issues in key Forums aside from the IGF. As such, we > would like to gather your views about how we are going to go about > achieving the same. > >> > >> > >> > >> The WGIG 2005 Report had identified 4 Public Policy Clusters namely[1]:- > >> > >> a) (a) Issues Relating to Infrastructure and Management of Critical > Internet Resources, including administration of domain name systems and > Internet Protocol Addresses, Administration of the root server system, > technical standards, peering and interconnection, telecommunications > infrastructure, including innovative and convergent technologies, as well > as multilingualization; > >> > >> b) (b) Issues relating to the use of the Internet including spam, > network security and cyber crime; > >> > >> c) (c.) Issues that are relevant to the Internet but have an > impact much wider than the Internet such as Intellectual Property Rights > (IPR) and International Trade; > >> > >> d) (d.) Issues relating to the developmental aspects of Internet > Governance in particular capacity building in developing countries. > >> > >> The WGIG then highlighted critical policy areas for the attention of > the WSIS[2]. The Table below illustrates the Policy Cluster as well as the > policy issues. > >> > >> No. > >> # > >> POLICY AREAS > >> POLICY CLUSTER > >> 1 > >> Administration of the Root Zones, Files and Systems > >> a > >> 2 > >> Interconnection Costs > >> a > >> 3 > >> Allocation of Domain Names > >> a > >> 4 > >> IP Addressing > >> a > >> 5 > >> Multilingualism > >> a > >> 6 > >> Internet Stability, Security and Cyber Crime > >> b > >> 7 > >> Spam > >> b > >> 8 > >> Intellectual Property Rights > >> c > >> 9 > >> Meaningful Participation in Global Policy Development > >> a, b, c, d > >> 10 > >> Capacity Building > >> A,b,c,d > >> 11 > >> Freedom of Expression > >> A,b,c,d > >> 12 > >> Data Protection and Privacy Rights > >> A,b,c,d > >> 13 > >> Consumer Rights > >> A,b,c,d > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Working Groups > >> > >> Having read the feedback from the Survey that was done by Norbert > Bollow some time ago, it is clear that it is far more beneficial to develop > positions on key issues prior to deciding which forums the IGC is going to > engage in. The Working Groups will mean that interested IGC subscribers > can volunteer their names to be part of the Working Group. They can also > volunteer to lead the Groups. For now it will be good if we agreed on a > model for coordination, enlist volunteers etc. > >> > >> > >> > >> Focus of Working Groups > >> > >> Working Groups can be tasked to do the following in each of their > Policy Areas, namely:- > >> > >> > >> • Create a repository of all submissions and Statements > made by the IGC or other Civil Society organizations: This can be done by > going through the ListServe Archives, UN Publications etc; > >> • Identify the issues: What the issues are? Have these > been addressed? Recommendations > >> • Identify Forums for Advocacy: presentation of the IGC > position > >> • Preparation of an Information Paper : summary of > issues, advocacy options > >> • Generating Discussion: Generating Discussion with the > IGC and assisting the IGC in formulating consensus position in the policy > area > >> > >> There are a few options available to the IGC and that is whether we > would like to have Working Groups that is based on the Policy Clusters > could mean something like this. Please note that the Policy Clusters are > far more expansive and include things like International Trade and issues > tabled for discussions in relation to the WCIT. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Model 1 > >> > >> Working Group > >> Policy Cluster Description > >> Policy Areas > >> A > >> Issues Relating to Infrastructure and Management of Critical Internet > Resources, including administration of domain name systems and Internet > Protocol Addresses, Administration of the root server system, technical > standards, peering and interconnection, telecommunications infrastructure, > including innovative and convergent technologies, as well as > multilingualization > >> > >> > >> #1, #2, #3, #4, #5 > >> B > >> Issues relating to the use of the Internet including spam, network > security and cyber crime; > >> > >> #6, #7 > >> C > >> Issues that are relevant to the Internet but have an impact much wider > than the Internet such as Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) and > International Trade > >> #8, #9, #10, #11, #12, #13 > >> d > >> Issues relating to the developmental aspects of Internet Governance in > particular capacity building in developing countries > >> #8, #9, #10, #11, #12, #13 > >> > >> > >> > >> Model 2 > >> > >> To have 13 Working Groups to specifically work in the following policy > areas. > >> > >> No. > >> # > >> POLICY AREAS > >> POLICY CLUSTER > >> 1 > >> Administration of the Root Zones, Files and Systems > >> a > >> 2 > >> Interconnection Costs > >> a > >> 3 > >> Allocation of Domain Names > >> a > >> 4 > >> IP Addressing > >> a > >> 5 > >> Multilingualism > >> a > >> 6 > >> Internet Stability, Security and Cyber Crime > >> b > >> 7 > >> Spam > >> b > >> 8 > >> Intellectual Property Rights > >> c > >> 9 > >> Meaningful Participation in Global Policy Development > >> a, b, c, d > >> 10 > >> Capacity Building > >> A,b,c,d > >> 11 > >> Freedom of Expression > >> A,b,c,d > >> 12 > >> Data Protection and Privacy Rights > >> A,b,c,d > >> 13 > >> Consumer Rights > >> A,b,c,d > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> [1] Report of the Working Group on Internet Governance 2005, Chateau de > Bossey in http://www.wgig.org/docs/WGIGREPORT.pdf > >> > >> [2] ibid > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > >> P.O. Box 17862 > >> Suva > >> Fiji > >> > >> Twitter: @SalanietaT > >> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > >> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ____________________________________________________________ > >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org > >> To be removed from the list, visit: > >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > >> > >> For all other list information and functions, see: > >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ > >> > >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > > To be removed from the list, visit: > > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > > > For all other list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From mariliamaciel at gmail.com Sun Sep 16 15:07:11 2012 From: mariliamaciel at gmail.com (Marilia Maciel) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 16:07:11 -0300 Subject: [governance] Re: Facebook and the nipplegate: New Yorker temporarily banned In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: More censorship. From Apple, this time. I wonder why FoE fighters do not seem to care as much when censorship comes from the private sector, which has a much more subtle (and efficient) way to affect standards of right, wrong and morality. http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/sep/13/naomi-wolf-vagina-apple-itunes-censors On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Marilia Maciel wrote: > A funnier way to continue the discussion about FB policy and their awkward > views on nudity. > > > http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/cartoonists/2012/09/nipplegate-why-the-new-yorker-cartoon-department-is-about-to-be-banned-from-facebook.html?currentPage=all > > > -- > Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade > FGV Direito Rio > > Center for Technology and Society > Getulio Vargas Foundation > Rio de Janeiro - Brazil > > -- Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade FGV Direito Rio Center for Technology and Society Getulio Vargas Foundation Rio de Janeiro - Brazil -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From shahzad at bytesforall.pk Sun Sep 16 15:07:59 2012 From: shahzad at bytesforall.pk (Shahzad Ahmad) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 00:07:59 +0500 Subject: [governance] Brainstorming [Improvements to IGC Coordination on IG Policies] #Working Groups In-Reply-To: <5055FFAE.5030608@apc.org> Message-ID: Summarizing important discussions is a very good suggestion Anriette. It is also important to document some of the useful threads. We used to do the same for our Forum and at that time it used to get published too in couple of publications. Best wishes and regards Shahzad On 9/16/12 9:34 PM, "Anriette Esterhuysen" wrote: >Dear all > >I am not able to volunteer for a working group - apologies. As it is I >am battling to stay up to date with the list. > >I do have a suggestion for improving coordination. > >1) Subject lines > >Can the coordinators help us to make sure subject lines match the actual >discussion? It would make it much easier for people who don't have time >to read constantly. > >2) Summaries > >There have been some really good discussions and debates. Summarising >some of them would be a great way of recording progress in these >discussions and debates, as well as making it easier for people who >can't read everything every day to follow. > >Best > >Anriette > >____________________________________________________________ >You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org >To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > >For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > >Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Sun Sep 16 15:12:20 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 07:12:20 +1200 Subject: [governance] Re: Facebook and the nipplegate: New Yorker temporarily banned In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 7:07 AM, Marilia Maciel wrote: > More censorship. From Apple, this time. I wonder why FoE fighters do not > seem to care as much when censorship comes from the private sector, which > has a much more subtle (and efficient) way to affect standards of right, > wrong and morality. > > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/sep/13/naomi-wolf-vagina-apple-itunes-censors > > You are right Marilia. > > On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Marilia Maciel wrote: > >> A funnier way to continue the discussion about FB policy and their >> awkward views on nudity. >> >> >> http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/cartoonists/2012/09/nipplegate-why-the-new-yorker-cartoon-department-is-about-to-be-banned-from-facebook.html?currentPage=all >> >> >> -- >> Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade >> FGV Direito Rio >> >> Center for Technology and Society >> Getulio Vargas Foundation >> Rio de Janeiro - Brazil >> >> > > > -- > Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade > FGV Direito Rio > > Center for Technology and Society > Getulio Vargas Foundation > Rio de Janeiro - Brazil > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From william.drake at uzh.ch Sun Sep 16 15:24:04 2012 From: william.drake at uzh.ch (William Drake) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 21:24:04 +0200 Subject: [governance] Re: Facebook and the nipplegate: New Yorker temporarily banned In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20719399-B692-4054-A8A6-8FCBF76BC8EA@uzh.ch> Maybe because the cases pale in comparison to the types of repression said FoE fighters tend to focus on, and because people can mobilize to redress them if they care enough without having to resort to intergovernmental politics? Bill On Sep 16, 2012, at 21:07, Marilia Maciel wrote: > More censorship. From Apple, this time. I wonder why FoE fighters do not seem to care as much when censorship comes from the private sector, which has a much more subtle (and efficient) way to affect standards of right, wrong and morality. > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/sep/13/naomi-wolf-vagina-apple-itunes-censors > > On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Marilia Maciel wrote: > A funnier way to continue the discussion about FB policy and their awkward views on nudity. > > http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/cartoonists/2012/09/nipplegate-why-the-new-yorker-cartoon-department-is-about-to-be-banned-from-facebook.html?currentPage=all > > > -- > Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade > FGV Direito Rio > > Center for Technology and Society > Getulio Vargas Foundation > Rio de Janeiro - Brazil > > > > > -- > Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade > FGV Direito Rio > > Center for Technology and Society > Getulio Vargas Foundation > Rio de Janeiro - Brazil > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Sun Sep 16 15:26:47 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 07:26:47 +1200 Subject: [governance] Re: Facebook and the nipplegate: New Yorker temporarily banned In-Reply-To: <20719399-B692-4054-A8A6-8FCBF76BC8EA@uzh.ch> References: <20719399-B692-4054-A8A6-8FCBF76BC8EA@uzh.ch> Message-ID: This is something that the Working Group on this can include in their work so that all focus areas are covered. On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 7:24 AM, William Drake wrote: > Maybe because the cases pale in comparison to the types of repression said > FoE fighters tend to focus on, and because people can mobilize to redress > them if they care enough without having to resort to intergovernmental > politics? > > Bill > > On Sep 16, 2012, at 21:07, Marilia Maciel wrote: > > More censorship. From Apple, this time. I wonder why FoE fighters do not > seem to care as much when censorship comes from the private sector, which > has a much more subtle (and efficient) way to affect standards of right, > wrong and morality. > > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/sep/13/naomi-wolf-vagina-apple-itunes-censors > > On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Marilia Maciel wrote: > >> A funnier way to continue the discussion about FB policy and their >> awkward views on nudity. >> >> >> http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/cartoonists/2012/09/nipplegate-why-the-new-yorker-cartoon-department-is-about-to-be-banned-from-facebook.html?currentPage=all >> >> >> -- >> Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade >> FGV Direito Rio >> >> Center for Technology and Society >> Getulio Vargas Foundation >> Rio de Janeiro - Brazil >> >> > > > -- > Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade > FGV Direito Rio > > Center for Technology and Society > Getulio Vargas Foundation > Rio de Janeiro - Brazil > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From mariliamaciel at gmail.com Sun Sep 16 15:37:19 2012 From: mariliamaciel at gmail.com (Marilia Maciel) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 16:37:19 -0300 Subject: [governance] Re: Facebook and the nipplegate: New Yorker temporarily banned In-Reply-To: <20719399-B692-4054-A8A6-8FCBF76BC8EA@uzh.ch> References: <20719399-B692-4054-A8A6-8FCBF76BC8EA@uzh.ch> Message-ID: Hi Bill, What is more important than what is a highly arguable, and, in my opinion, fruitless debate. Ask any woman who has been engaged in activism on sexual and reproductive rights the importance of this globally omnipresent company's censorship on the word "vagina". In addition, in my opinion, private censorship can be much more dangerous exactly because they do not come from imposition (rough power), but from soft power. To organize and resist soft power and to distinguish where "the enemy lies" is much harder. Conservative ideas get embedded in our minds before we have the chance to question them. It is certainly easier to identify that "chinese firewall is bad". I hope we learn to split our attention among these important cases of censorship more wisely. Marília On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 4:24 PM, William Drake wrote: > Maybe because the cases pale in comparison to the types of repression said > FoE fighters tend to focus on, and because people can mobilize to redress > them if they care enough without having to resort to intergovernmental > politics? > > Bill > > On Sep 16, 2012, at 21:07, Marilia Maciel wrote: > > More censorship. From Apple, this time. I wonder why FoE fighters do not > seem to care as much when censorship comes from the private sector, which > has a much more subtle (and efficient) way to affect standards of right, > wrong and morality. > > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/sep/13/naomi-wolf-vagina-apple-itunes-censors > > On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Marilia Maciel wrote: > >> A funnier way to continue the discussion about FB policy and their >> awkward views on nudity. >> >> >> http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/cartoonists/2012/09/nipplegate-why-the-new-yorker-cartoon-department-is-about-to-be-banned-from-facebook.html?currentPage=all >> >> >> -- >> Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade >> FGV Direito Rio >> >> Center for Technology and Society >> Getulio Vargas Foundation >> Rio de Janeiro - Brazil >> >> > > > -- > Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade > FGV Direito Rio > > Center for Technology and Society > Getulio Vargas Foundation > Rio de Janeiro - Brazil > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade FGV Direito Rio Center for Technology and Society Getulio Vargas Foundation Rio de Janeiro - Brazil -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From judyokite at gmail.com Sun Sep 16 15:41:51 2012 From: judyokite at gmail.com (Judy Okite) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 22:41:51 +0300 Subject: [governance] Brainstorming [Improvements to IGC Coordination on IG Policies] #Working Groups In-Reply-To: References: <5055FFAE.5030608@apc.org> Message-ID: I second your thoughts Anriette, it would be of great importance, as all of us, may not always have connection etc and it would be difficult to catch up after awhile. Areas of interest: 9 Meaningful Participation in Global Policy Development 10 Capacity Building Kind Regards, *“Don't undertake a project unless it is manifestly important and nearly impossible” Edwin Land* On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:07 PM, Shahzad Ahmad wrote: > Summarizing important discussions is a very good suggestion Anriette. It > is also important to document some of the useful threads. > > We used to do the same for our Forum and at that time it used to get > published too in couple of publications. > > Best wishes and regards > Shahzad > > > On 9/16/12 9:34 PM, "Anriette Esterhuysen" wrote: > > >Dear all > > > >I am not able to volunteer for a working group - apologies. As it is I > >am battling to stay up to date with the list. > > > >I do have a suggestion for improving coordination. > > > >1) Subject lines > > > >Can the coordinators help us to make sure subject lines match the actual > >discussion? It would make it much easier for people who don't have time > >to read constantly. > > > >2) Summaries > > > >There have been some really good discussions and debates. Summarising > >some of them would be a great way of recording progress in these > >discussions and debates, as well as making it easier for people who > >can't read everything every day to follow. > > > >Best > > > >Anriette > > > >____________________________________________________________ > >You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > >To be removed from the list, visit: > > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > > >For all other list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > >To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > > >Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From william.drake at uzh.ch Sun Sep 16 15:48:35 2012 From: william.drake at uzh.ch (William Drake) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 21:48:35 +0200 Subject: [governance] Brainstorming [Improvements to IGC Coordination on IG Policies] #Working Groups In-Reply-To: <0EF44AC6-D668-4A45-9CC0-D5D084CB6421@ella.com> References: <0EF44AC6-D668-4A45-9CC0-D5D084CB6421@ella.com> Message-ID: <4817AFFE-10E4-441D-81C6-4AE88E0184F7@uzh.ch> Hi Sala Unfortunately I've been unable to process all your prodigious output on all the listservs we co-habitate and thus am unable to recall when we collectively agreed on the need for a WG on CIR and to engage in forums beond the IGF. Would you mind resending the relevant surveys response totals and whatever else you are basing this on? If indeed there is consensus on doing something like this, I as a WGIG member I would argue against using the WGIG's construction of the topography as a starting point. That was a stabbing in the dark exercise from almost a decade ago that may not reflect the best way of thinking about these things today. It was also a politically negotiated document that was subject to constraints that don't apply here. I do strongly agree on the need to do this, as I've said many times since 2003: >> • Create a repository of all submissions and Statements made by the IGC or other Civil Society organizations: This can be done by going through the ListServe Archives, UN Publications etc; thanks, Bill > > > On 9 Sep 2012, at 19:52, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote: > >> Dear All, >> >> As you can imagine, we are constantly faced with the challenges of improving the manner in which we coordinate advocacy in policy areas pertaining to Internet Governance. Following the current evaluation of the IGC, we will issue another Survey to generate suggestions on how we can improve out internal coordination as the IGC. Things like developing positions on Policy areas. >> The IGC has following consensus developed positions on certain areas such as Freedom of Expression, Remote Participation, Human Rights etc. Noting that with critical forums looming namely, the IGF and other forums that will require global input from the IGC, I have put together some thoughts. Let me have your comments. >> >> >> Background >> >> Following the recent Survey conducted by the IGC there is consensus that there is a need to enhance the coordination of advocacy of critical Internet Governance issues in key Forums aside from the IGF. As such, we would like to gather your views about how we are going to go about achieving the same. >> >> >> >> The WGIG 2005 Report had identified 4 Public Policy Clusters namely[1]:- >> >> a) (a) Issues Relating to Infrastructure and Management of Critical Internet Resources, including administration of domain name systems and Internet Protocol Addresses, Administration of the root server system, technical standards, peering and interconnection, telecommunications infrastructure, including innovative and convergent technologies, as well as multilingualization; >> >> b) (b) Issues relating to the use of the Internet including spam, network security and cyber crime; >> >> c) (c.) Issues that are relevant to the Internet but have an impact much wider than the Internet such as Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) and International Trade; >> >> d) (d.) Issues relating to the developmental aspects of Internet Governance in particular capacity building in developing countries. >> >> The WGIG then highlighted critical policy areas for the attention of the WSIS[2]. The Table below illustrates the Policy Cluster as well as the policy issues. >> >> No. >> # >> POLICY AREAS >> POLICY CLUSTER >> 1 >> Administration of the Root Zones, Files and Systems >> a >> 2 >> Interconnection Costs >> a >> 3 >> Allocation of Domain Names >> a >> 4 >> IP Addressing >> a >> 5 >> Multilingualism >> a >> 6 >> Internet Stability, Security and Cyber Crime >> b >> 7 >> Spam >> b >> 8 >> Intellectual Property Rights >> c >> 9 >> Meaningful Participation in Global Policy Development >> a, b, c, d >> 10 >> Capacity Building >> A,b,c,d >> 11 >> Freedom of Expression >> A,b,c,d >> 12 >> Data Protection and Privacy Rights >> A,b,c,d >> 13 >> Consumer Rights >> A,b,c,d >> >> >> >> >> Working Groups >> >> Having read the feedback from the Survey that was done by Norbert Bollow some time ago, it is clear that it is far more beneficial to develop positions on key issues prior to deciding which forums the IGC is going to engage in. The Working Groups will mean that interested IGC subscribers can volunteer their names to be part of the Working Group. They can also volunteer to lead the Groups. For now it will be good if we agreed on a model for coordination, enlist volunteers etc. >> >> >> >> Focus of Working Groups >> >> Working Groups can be tasked to do the following in each of their Policy Areas, namely:- >> >> >> • Create a repository of all submissions and Statements made by the IGC or other Civil Society organizations: This can be done by going through the ListServe Archives, UN Publications etc; >> • Identify the issues: What the issues are? Have these been addressed? Recommendations >> • Identify Forums for Advocacy: presentation of the IGC position >> • Preparation of an Information Paper : summary of issues, advocacy options >> • Generating Discussion: Generating Discussion with the IGC and assisting the IGC in formulating consensus position in the policy area >> >> There are a few options available to the IGC and that is whether we would like to have Working Groups that is based on the Policy Clusters could mean something like this. Please note that the Policy Clusters are far more expansive and include things like International Trade and issues tabled for discussions in relation to the WCIT. >> >> >> >> >> >> Model 1 >> >> Working Group >> Policy Cluster Description >> Policy Areas >> A >> Issues Relating to Infrastructure and Management of Critical Internet Resources, including administration of domain name systems and Internet Protocol Addresses, Administration of the root server system, technical standards, peering and interconnection, telecommunications infrastructure, including innovative and convergent technologies, as well as multilingualization >> >> >> #1, #2, #3, #4, #5 >> B >> Issues relating to the use of the Internet including spam, network security and cyber crime; >> >> #6, #7 >> C >> Issues that are relevant to the Internet but have an impact much wider than the Internet such as Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) and International Trade >> #8, #9, #10, #11, #12, #13 >> d >> Issues relating to the developmental aspects of Internet Governance in particular capacity building in developing countries >> #8, #9, #10, #11, #12, #13 >> >> >> >> Model 2 >> >> To have 13 Working Groups to specifically work in the following policy areas. >> >> No. >> # >> POLICY AREAS >> POLICY CLUSTER >> 1 >> Administration of the Root Zones, Files and Systems >> a >> 2 >> Interconnection Costs >> a >> 3 >> Allocation of Domain Names >> a >> 4 >> IP Addressing >> a >> 5 >> Multilingualism >> a >> 6 >> Internet Stability, Security and Cyber Crime >> b >> 7 >> Spam >> b >> 8 >> Intellectual Property Rights >> c >> 9 >> Meaningful Participation in Global Policy Development >> a, b, c, d >> 10 >> Capacity Building >> A,b,c,d >> 11 >> Freedom of Expression >> A,b,c,d >> 12 >> Data Protection and Privacy Rights >> A,b,c,d >> 13 >> Consumer Rights >> A,b,c,d >> >> >> >> >> [1] Report of the Working Group on Internet Governance 2005, Chateau de Bossey in http://www.wgig.org/docs/WGIGREPORT.pdf >> >> [2] ibid >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala >> P.O. Box 17862 >> Suva >> Fiji >> >> Twitter: @SalanietaT >> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro >> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 >> >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From william.drake at uzh.ch Sun Sep 16 16:00:45 2012 From: william.drake at uzh.ch (William Drake) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 22:00:45 +0200 Subject: [governance] Re: Facebook and the nipplegate: New Yorker temporarily banned In-Reply-To: References: <20719399-B692-4054-A8A6-8FCBF76BC8EA@uzh.ch> Message-ID: Hi Marilia On Sep 16, 2012, at 21:37, Marilia Maciel wrote: > Hi Bill, > > What is more important than what is a highly arguable, If you say vagina on FaceBook, do police come to your place in the middle of the night, toss you in jail, and throw away the key? Do they harass your friends and family and anyone else who's been associated with you? And are you unable to read about vaginas anywhere else on the net because they they get hypersensitive about what's on their site due to government pressures? > and, in my opinion, fruitless debate. Ask any woman who has been engaged in activism on sexual and reproductive rights the importance of this globally omnipresent company's censorship on the word "vagina". I certainly agree it's dumb. Why not try to mobilize FB users who care about this and start a dialogue, put some pressure on FB? > > In addition, in my opinion, private censorship can be much more dangerous exactly because they do not come from imposition (rough power), but from soft power. To organize and resist soft power and to distinguish where "the enemy lies" is much harder. Conservative ideas get embedded in our minds before we have the chance to question them. It is certainly easier to identify that "chinese firewall is bad". I don't think it is conservative to point out that people are rotting in jails and otherwise seriously repressed by that firewall and actions like it. > > I hope we learn to split our attention among these important cases of censorship more wisely. Agreed Best Bill > > Marília > > On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 4:24 PM, William Drake wrote: > Maybe because the cases pale in comparison to the types of repression said FoE fighters tend to focus on, and because people can mobilize to redress them if they care enough without having to resort to intergovernmental politics? > > Bill > > On Sep 16, 2012, at 21:07, Marilia Maciel wrote: > >> More censorship. From Apple, this time. I wonder why FoE fighters do not seem to care as much when censorship comes from the private sector, which has a much more subtle (and efficient) way to affect standards of right, wrong and morality. >> >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/sep/13/naomi-wolf-vagina-apple-itunes-censors >> >> On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Marilia Maciel wrote: >> A funnier way to continue the discussion about FB policy and their awkward views on nudity. >> >> http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/cartoonists/2012/09/nipplegate-why-the-new-yorker-cartoon-department-is-about-to-be-banned-from-facebook.html?currentPage=all >> >> >> -- >> Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade >> FGV Direito Rio >> >> Center for Technology and Society >> Getulio Vargas Foundation >> Rio de Janeiro - Brazil >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade >> FGV Direito Rio >> >> Center for Technology and Society >> Getulio Vargas Foundation >> Rio de Janeiro - Brazil >> ____________________________________________________________ >> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > > -- > Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade > FGV Direito Rio > > Center for Technology and Society > Getulio Vargas Foundation > Rio de Janeiro - Brazil -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ian.peter at ianpeter.com Sun Sep 16 16:14:49 2012 From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 06:14:49 +1000 Subject: [governance] Re: Facebook and the nipplegate: New Yorker temporarily banned In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Agree with Marilia. The Paypal actions against Wikileaks stays in my mind as another example. Yes, unilateral corporate censorship is a growing problem. But in dealing with it we have to point out that the dangers of unilateral government censorship without consultation with other affected jurisdictions presents similar problems. At the very least, we need some universally agreed to guiding principles for such actions ­ and this would be in the interests of corporations, who must be driven crazy dealing with the whims and political motivations of 180 odd separate nation state entities all demanding separate actions within their jurisdictions on a network which was not designed to be able to affect separate national content variations. Ian Peter From: Marilia Maciel Reply-To: , Marilia Maciel Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 16:37:19 -0300 To: William Drake Cc: "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" Subject: Re: [governance] Re: Facebook and the nipplegate: New Yorker temporarily banned Hi Bill,  What is more important than what is a highly arguable, and, in my opinion, fruitless debate. Ask any woman who has been engaged in activism on sexual and reproductive rights the importance of this globally omnipresent company's censorship on the word "vagina".  In addition, in my opinion, private censorship can be much more dangerous exactly because they do not come from imposition (rough power), but from soft power. To organize and resist soft power and to distinguish where "the enemy lies" is much harder. Conservative ideas get embedded in our minds before we have the chance to question them. It is certainly easier to identify that "chinese firewall is bad".  I hope we learn to split our attention among these important cases of censorship more wisely. Marília On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 4:24 PM, William Drake wrote: > Maybe because the cases pale in comparison to the types of repression said FoE > fighters tend to focus on, and because people can mobilize to redress them if > they care enough without having to resort to intergovernmental politics? > > Bill > > On Sep 16, 2012, at 21:07, Marilia Maciel wrote: > >> More censorship. From Apple, this time. I wonder why FoE fighters do not seem >> to care as much when censorship comes from the private sector, which has a >> much more subtle (and efficient) way to affect standards of right, wrong and >> morality. >> >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/sep/13/naomi-wolf-vagina-apple-itunes-ce >> nsors >> >> On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Marilia Maciel >> wrote: >>> A funnier way to continue the discussion about FB policy and their awkward >>> views on nudity. >>> >>> http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/cartoonists/2012/09/nipplegate-why-the >>> -new-yorker-cartoon-department-is-about-to-be-banned-from-facebook.html?curr >>> entPage=all >>> >>> >>> --  >>> Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade >>> FGV Direito Rio >>> >>> Center for Technology and Society >>> Getulio Vargas Foundation >>> Rio de Janeiro - Brazil >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade >> FGV Direito Rio >> >> Center for Technology and Society >> Getulio Vargas Foundation >> Rio de Janeiro - Brazil >> ____________________________________________________________ >> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>     http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -- Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade FGV Direito Rio Center for Technology and Society Getulio Vargas Foundation Rio de Janeiro - Brazil ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From mariliamaciel at gmail.com Sun Sep 16 16:25:29 2012 From: mariliamaciel at gmail.com (Marilia Maciel) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 17:25:29 -0300 Subject: [governance] Re: Facebook and the nipplegate: New Yorker temporarily banned In-Reply-To: References: <20719399-B692-4054-A8A6-8FCBF76BC8EA@uzh.ch> Message-ID: > > > If you say vagina on FaceBook, do police come to your place in the middle > of the night, toss you in jail, and throw away the key? Do they harass > your friends and family and anyone else who's been associated with you? > And are you unable to read about vaginas anywhere else on the net because > they they get hypersensitive about what's on their site due to government > pressures? > According to official numbers, which are probably underestimated, four women per hour are victims of gender-biased violence in my country, especially sexual violence. This type of violence stems from conservative values, from patriachalism, from an attempt to deny women the right to freely express their sexuality. These conservative values are being reinforced and made "natural" by policies adopted by companies like FB and Apple. So don't tell me that this private censorship is a fact without real, concrete and painful consequences only because the world media has chosen to place the spotlight on the several (horrible and unacceptable) cases about political censorship, and not on violence against women. > > and, in my opinion, fruitless debate. Ask any woman who has been engaged > in activism on sexual and reproductive rights the importance of this > globally omnipresent company's censorship on the word "vagina". > > > I certainly agree it's dumb. Why not try to mobilize FB users who care > about this and start a dialogue, put some pressure on FB? > Trying, including here :) > > > In addition, in my opinion, private censorship can be much more dangerous > exactly because they do not come from imposition (rough power), but from > soft power. To organize and resist soft power and to distinguish where "the > enemy lies" is much harder. Conservative ideas get embedded in our minds > before we have the chance to question them. It is certainly easier to > identify that "chinese firewall is bad". > > > I don't think it is conservative to point out that people are rotting in > jails and otherwise seriously repressed by that firewall and actions like > it. > Not at all what I meant. Conservative ideas = aforementioned conservative values. > > > I hope we learn to split our attention among these important cases of > censorship more wisely. > > > Agreed > Then we agree to agree :) > > Best > > Bill > > > Marília > > On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 4:24 PM, William Drake wrote: > >> Maybe because the cases pale in comparison to the types of repression >> said FoE fighters tend to focus on, and because people can mobilize to >> redress them if they care enough without having to resort to >> intergovernmental politics? >> >> Bill >> >> On Sep 16, 2012, at 21:07, Marilia Maciel >> wrote: >> >> More censorship. From Apple, this time. I wonder why FoE fighters do not >> seem to care as much when censorship comes from the private sector, which >> has a much more subtle (and efficient) way to affect standards of right, >> wrong and morality. >> >> >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/sep/13/naomi-wolf-vagina-apple-itunes-censors >> >> On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Marilia Maciel wrote: >> >>> A funnier way to continue the discussion about FB policy and their >>> awkward views on nudity. >>> >>> >>> http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/cartoonists/2012/09/nipplegate-why-the-new-yorker-cartoon-department-is-about-to-be-banned-from-facebook.html?currentPage=all >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade >>> FGV Direito Rio >>> >>> Center for Technology and Society >>> Getulio Vargas Foundation >>> Rio de Janeiro - Brazil >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade >> FGV Direito Rio >> >> Center for Technology and Society >> Getulio Vargas Foundation >> Rio de Janeiro - Brazil >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > > -- > Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade > FGV Direito Rio > > Center for Technology and Society > Getulio Vargas Foundation > Rio de Janeiro - Brazil > > -- Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade FGV Direito Rio Center for Technology and Society Getulio Vargas Foundation Rio de Janeiro - Brazil -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Sun Sep 16 16:29:41 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 08:29:41 +1200 Subject: [governance] Brainstorming [Improvements to IGC Coordination on IG Policies] #Working Groups In-Reply-To: <4817AFFE-10E4-441D-81C6-4AE88E0184F7@uzh.ch> References: <0EF44AC6-D668-4A45-9CC0-D5D084CB6421@ella.com> <4817AFFE-10E4-441D-81C6-4AE88E0184F7@uzh.ch> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 7:48 AM, William Drake wrote: > Hi Sala > > Unfortunately I've been unable to process all your prodigious output on > all the listservs we co-habitate and thus am unable to recall when we > collectively agreed on the need for a WG on CIR and to engage in forums > beond the IGF. Would you mind resending the relevant surveys response > totals and whatever else you are basing this on? > Thank you Bill, my comments are inline. *Status of the Current IGC Survey* * * The current Survey that is being carried out by the IGC is in relation to whether the IGC is meeting its objectives under the Charter will close today after 24 hours (following requests for extension). So far there are 28 responses. The results will be published in due course. *Survey on IG Mapping and Feedback from the IGC* The Survey that I was referring to in my introductory email was the one which was on Internet Governance mapping that was done by Norbert Bollow following questions that were designed by Jeremy Malcolm. Norbert has done excellent work in mapping policy areas and forums. The Mapping IG concept evolved from discussions on the IGC mailing list and Norbert suggests that McTim was one of the central contributors to this concept of mapping. i will send you the IG Mapping Survey offlist as it is a few attachments. Aside from these, there have been numerous instances both online and offline where suggestions have been made on the IGC getting its act together to work strategically in meeting its core objectives. There are numerous forums other than the IGF which highlights areas of concerns. *The Idea of Working Groups* * * The idea of the Working Group is not something new, the IGC has had them in the past. It makes reasonable sense for focus groups specifically focused on discussing critical issues, preparing positions, inviting input from the IGC community, arriving at consensus in a manner that is collaborative, inclusive and engages people. This is one way of ensuring that the process is managed as a Team and is owned. If there are alternative suggestions, please feel free to raise them. *The Invitation to Brainstorm* * * This email thread is entitled: Brainstorming where everyone is encouraged to offer suggestions on how improvements can be made in coordinating feedback etc. This is premised from the philosophy that the people should decide which model works for them and how we should go about this. Once we have decided on what model works best for us as the IGC, we can then use the IG Map and also those that may not be included in the map at the moment to clearly identify which forums we would like to engage in over the next year, or couple of years and how we would like to participate. *Classification of Focus Areas (Policy Clusters or Policy Areas)* > > If indeed there is consensus on doing something like this, I as a WGIG > member I would argue against using the WGIG's construction of the > topography as a starting point. That was a stabbing in the dark exercise > from almost a decade ago that may not reflect the best way of thinking > about these things today. It was also a politically negotiated document > that was subject to constraints that don't apply here. > There is a need to identify focal areas to enable the IGC to work efficiently towards fulfilling its mission and objectives under the Charter. The areas that were identified in the WGIG Team are still classification methods being used by the IGF and the MAG today. For the purpose of ensuring that we have clear systems in place that will help us to fulfil our mission and objectives as an IGC, we need to identify which areas we would like to focus on. The Policy Cluster areas that were identified are still cluster areas that we are grappling with today. Yes these may have evolved somewhat but it helps to work from a generally acceptable baseline of categorisation. We need to look at means of organising coordinated responses that are developed. There are areas which Norbert Bollow in one of his studies on Internet Governance mapping suggested were currently not being addressed in certain foras. It follows that the two Models I had thrown into the list for comments are possible categorisations of policy spaces. *Creating Repository for Civil Society* > > I do strongly agree on the need to do this, as I've said many times since > 2003: > > >> • Create a repository of all submissions and Statements > made by the IGC or other Civil Society organizations: This can be done by > going through the ListServe Archives, UN Publications etc; > > Yes and in order to do this we need human resources and volunteers who will commit to making an effort to consolidate this. I am assuming that people will tend to do so only if it interests them, hence asking people what areas resonate with them where they would like to apply their energy. If this is done within Working Groups and in clear focal areas this will mean efficiency, productivity and collaboration to produce synergy. > > thanks, > > Bill > > > > > > > On 9 Sep 2012, at 19:52, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote: > > > >> Dear All, > >> > >> As you can imagine, we are constantly faced with the challenges of > improving the manner in which we coordinate advocacy in policy areas > pertaining to Internet Governance. Following the current evaluation of the > IGC, we will issue another Survey to generate suggestions on how we can > improve out internal coordination as the IGC. Things like developing > positions on Policy areas. > >> The IGC has following consensus developed positions on certain areas > such as Freedom of Expression, Remote Participation, Human Rights etc. > Noting that with critical forums looming namely, the IGF and other forums > that will require global input from the IGC, I have put together some > thoughts. Let me have your comments. > >> > >> > >> Background > >> > >> Following the recent Survey conducted by the IGC there is consensus > that there is a need to enhance the coordination of advocacy of critical > Internet Governance issues in key Forums aside from the IGF. As such, we > would like to gather your views about how we are going to go about > achieving the same. > >> > >> > >> > >> The WGIG 2005 Report had identified 4 Public Policy Clusters namely[1]:- > >> > >> a) (a) Issues Relating to Infrastructure and Management of Critical > Internet Resources, including administration of domain name systems and > Internet Protocol Addresses, Administration of the root server system, > technical standards, peering and interconnection, telecommunications > infrastructure, including innovative and convergent technologies, as well > as multilingualization; > >> > >> b) (b) Issues relating to the use of the Internet including spam, > network security and cyber crime; > >> > >> c) (c.) Issues that are relevant to the Internet but have an > impact much wider than the Internet such as Intellectual Property Rights > (IPR) and International Trade; > >> > >> d) (d.) Issues relating to the developmental aspects of Internet > Governance in particular capacity building in developing countries. > >> > >> The WGIG then highlighted critical policy areas for the attention of > the WSIS[2]. The Table below illustrates the Policy Cluster as well as the > policy issues. > >> > >> No. > >> # > >> POLICY AREAS > >> POLICY CLUSTER > >> 1 > >> Administration of the Root Zones, Files and Systems > >> a > >> 2 > >> Interconnection Costs > >> a > >> 3 > >> Allocation of Domain Names > >> a > >> 4 > >> IP Addressing > >> a > >> 5 > >> Multilingualism > >> a > >> 6 > >> Internet Stability, Security and Cyber Crime > >> b > >> 7 > >> Spam > >> b > >> 8 > >> Intellectual Property Rights > >> c > >> 9 > >> Meaningful Participation in Global Policy Development > >> a, b, c, d > >> 10 > >> Capacity Building > >> A,b,c,d > >> 11 > >> Freedom of Expression > >> A,b,c,d > >> 12 > >> Data Protection and Privacy Rights > >> A,b,c,d > >> 13 > >> Consumer Rights > >> A,b,c,d > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Working Groups > >> > >> Having read the feedback from the Survey that was done by Norbert > Bollow some time ago, it is clear that it is far more beneficial to develop > positions on key issues prior to deciding which forums the IGC is going to > engage in. The Working Groups will mean that interested IGC subscribers > can volunteer their names to be part of the Working Group. They can also > volunteer to lead the Groups. For now it will be good if we agreed on a > model for coordination, enlist volunteers etc. > >> > >> > >> > >> Focus of Working Groups > >> > >> Working Groups can be tasked to do the following in each of their > Policy Areas, namely:- > >> > >> > >> • Create a repository of all submissions and Statements > made by the IGC or other Civil Society organizations: This can be done by > going through the ListServe Archives, UN Publications etc; > >> • Identify the issues: What the issues are? Have these been > addressed? Recommendations > >> • Identify Forums for Advocacy: presentation of the IGC > position > >> • Preparation of an Information Paper : summary of issues, > advocacy options > >> • Generating Discussion: Generating Discussion with the IGC > and assisting the IGC in formulating consensus position in the policy area > >> > >> There are a few options available to the IGC and that is whether we > would like to have Working Groups that is based on the Policy Clusters > could mean something like this. Please note that the Policy Clusters are > far more expansive and include things like International Trade and issues > tabled for discussions in relation to the WCIT. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Model 1 > >> > >> Working Group > >> Policy Cluster Description > >> Policy Areas > >> A > >> Issues Relating to Infrastructure and Management of Critical Internet > Resources, including administration of domain name systems and Internet > Protocol Addresses, Administration of the root server system, technical > standards, peering and interconnection, telecommunications infrastructure, > including innovative and convergent technologies, as well as > multilingualization > >> > >> > >> #1, #2, #3, #4, #5 > >> B > >> Issues relating to the use of the Internet including spam, network > security and cyber crime; > >> > >> #6, #7 > >> C > >> Issues that are relevant to the Internet but have an impact much wider > than the Internet such as Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) and > International Trade > >> #8, #9, #10, #11, #12, #13 > >> d > >> Issues relating to the developmental aspects of Internet Governance in > particular capacity building in developing countries > >> #8, #9, #10, #11, #12, #13 > >> > >> > >> > >> Model 2 > >> > >> To have 13 Working Groups to specifically work in the following policy > areas. > >> > >> No. > >> # > >> POLICY AREAS > >> POLICY CLUSTER > >> 1 > >> Administration of the Root Zones, Files and Systems > >> a > >> 2 > >> Interconnection Costs > >> a > >> 3 > >> Allocation of Domain Names > >> a > >> 4 > >> IP Addressing > >> a > >> 5 > >> Multilingualism > >> a > >> 6 > >> Internet Stability, Security and Cyber Crime > >> b > >> 7 > >> Spam > >> b > >> 8 > >> Intellectual Property Rights > >> c > >> 9 > >> Meaningful Participation in Global Policy Development > >> a, b, c, d > >> 10 > >> Capacity Building > >> A,b,c,d > >> 11 > >> Freedom of Expression > >> A,b,c,d > >> 12 > >> Data Protection and Privacy Rights > >> A,b,c,d > >> 13 > >> Consumer Rights > >> A,b,c,d > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> [1] Report of the Working Group on Internet Governance 2005, Chateau de > Bossey in http://www.wgig.org/docs/WGIGREPORT.pdf > >> > >> [2] ibid > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > >> P.O. Box 17862 > >> Suva > >> Fiji > >> > >> Twitter: @SalanietaT > >> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > >> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ____________________________________________________________ > >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org > >> To be removed from the list, visit: > >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > >> > >> For all other list information and functions, see: > >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ > >> > >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > > To be removed from the list, visit: > > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > > > For all other list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From mariliamaciel at gmail.com Sun Sep 16 16:29:44 2012 From: mariliamaciel at gmail.com (Marilia Maciel) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 17:29:44 -0300 Subject: [governance] Re: Facebook and the nipplegate: New Yorker temporarily banned In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I totally agree, Ian. Caught on the mess, it is natural that companies will chose the lowest common denominator to avoid legal problems - after all, they are committed to gain profit, not to fight for civil liberties - and this happens on the disadvantage of FoE. Best, Marília On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 5:14 PM, Ian Peter wrote: > Agree with Marilia. The Paypal actions against Wikileaks stays in my > mind as another example. > > Yes, unilateral corporate censorship is a growing problem. But in dealing > with it we have to point out that the dangers of unilateral government > censorship without consultation with other affected jurisdictions presents > similar problems. At the very least, we need some universally agreed to > guiding principles for such actions – and this would be in the interests of > corporations, who must be driven crazy dealing with the whims and political > motivations of 180 odd separate nation state entities all demanding > separate actions within their jurisdictions on a network which was not > designed to be able to affect separate national content variations. > > Ian Peter > > ------------------------------ > *From: *Marilia Maciel > *Reply-To: *, Marilia Maciel < > mariliamaciel at gmail.com> > *Date: *Sun, 16 Sep 2012 16:37:19 -0300 > *To: *William Drake > *Cc: *"governance at lists.igcaucus.org" > *Subject: *Re: [governance] Re: Facebook and the nipplegate: New Yorker > temporarily banned > > > Hi Bill, > > What is more important than what is a highly arguable, and, in my opinion, > fruitless debate. Ask any woman who has been engaged in activism on sexual > and reproductive rights the importance of this globally omnipresent > company's censorship on the word "vagina". > > In addition, in my opinion, private censorship can be much more dangerous > exactly because they do not come from imposition (rough power), but from > soft power. To organize and resist soft power and to distinguish where "the > enemy lies" is much harder. Conservative ideas get embedded in our minds > before we have the chance to question them. It is certainly easier to > identify that "chinese firewall is bad". > > I hope we learn to split our attention among these important cases of > censorship more wisely. > > Marília > > On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 4:24 PM, William Drake > wrote: > > Maybe because the cases pale in comparison to the types of repression said > FoE fighters tend to focus on, and because people can mobilize to redress > them if they care enough without having to resort to intergovernmental > politics? > > Bill > > On Sep 16, 2012, at 21:07, Marilia Maciel wrote: > > More censorship. From Apple, this time. I wonder why FoE fighters do not > seem to care as much when censorship comes from the private sector, which > has a much more subtle (and efficient) way to affect standards of right, > wrong and morality. > > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/sep/13/naomi-wolf-vagina-apple-itunes-censors > > On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Marilia Maciel > wrote: > > A funnier way to continue the discussion about FB policy and their awkward > views on nudity. > > > http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/cartoonists/2012/09/nipplegate-why-the-new-yorker-cartoon-department-is-about-to-be-banned-from-facebook.html?currentPage=all > > > -- > Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade > FGV Direito Rio > > Center for Technology and Society > Getulio Vargas Foundation > Rio de Janeiro - Brazil > > > > > -- > Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade > FGV Direito Rio > > Center for Technology and Society > Getulio Vargas Foundation > Rio de Janeiro - Brazil > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > > > -- > Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade > FGV Direito Rio > > Center for Technology and Society > Getulio Vargas Foundation > Rio de Janeiro - Brazil > > ------------------------------ > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > -- Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade FGV Direito Rio Center for Technology and Society Getulio Vargas Foundation Rio de Janeiro - Brazil -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ian.peter at ianpeter.com Sun Sep 16 16:56:10 2012 From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 06:56:10 +1000 Subject: [governance] Re: Facebook and the nipplegate: New Yorker temporarily banned In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Perhaps in analysing this it is worth looking at the range of unilateral options that can be pursued by corporations or governments acting without consultation to affect censorship. I am sure my list is not exhaustive, but it includes * national firewalls * removing content from affected sites by complying corporations * removing host servers from networks by complying nations or corporations within nations hosting servers * removing host names by registries or registrars in the nations hosting such registries and registrars * compliance following court orders within the country of citizenship of an offending individual to remove offending material These of course can all be in competing jurisdictions. And I only need to get one of the above acting in my interest in blocking freedom of expression, not all. From: Marilia Maciel Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 17:29:44 -0300 To: Ian Peter Cc: Subject: Re: [governance] Re: Facebook and the nipplegate: New Yorker temporarily banned I totally agree, Ian. Caught on the mess, it is natural that companies will chose the lowest common denominator to avoid legal problems - after all, they are committed to gain profit, not to fight for civil liberties - and this happens on the disadvantage of FoE.  Best, Marília On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 5:14 PM, Ian Peter wrote: > Agree with Marilia. The Paypal actions against Wikileaks stays in my mind as > another example. > > Yes, unilateral corporate censorship is a growing problem. But in dealing with > it we have to point out that the dangers of unilateral government censorship > without consultation with other affected jurisdictions presents similar > problems. At the very least, we need some universally agreed to guiding > principles for such actions ­ and this would be in the interests of > corporations, who must be driven crazy dealing with the whims and political > motivations of 180 odd separate nation state entities all demanding separate > actions within their jurisdictions on a network which was not designed to be > able to affect separate national content variations. > > Ian Peter > > > From: Marilia Maciel > > > Reply-To: >, Marilia Maciel > > > Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 16:37:19 -0300 > To: William Drake > > Cc: "governance at lists.igcaucus.org " > > > Subject: Re: [governance] Re: Facebook and the nipplegate: New Yorker > temporarily banned > > > Hi Bill,  > > What is more important than what is a highly arguable, and, in my opinion, > fruitless debate. Ask any woman who has been engaged in activism on sexual and > reproductive rights the importance of this globally omnipresent company's > censorship on the word "vagina".  > > In addition, in my opinion, private censorship can be much more dangerous > exactly because they do not come from imposition (rough power), but from soft > power. To organize and resist soft power and to distinguish where "the enemy > lies" is much harder. Conservative ideas get embedded in our minds before we > have the chance to question them. It is certainly easier to identify that > "chinese firewall is bad".  > > I hope we learn to split our attention among these important cases of > censorship more wisely. > > Marília > > On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 4:24 PM, William Drake > wrote: >> Maybe because the cases pale in comparison to the types of repression said >> FoE fighters tend to focus on, and because people can mobilize to redress >> them if they care enough without having to resort to intergovernmental >> politics? >> >> Bill >> >> On Sep 16, 2012, at 21:07, Marilia Maciel > > wrote: >> >>> More censorship. From Apple, this time. I wonder why FoE fighters do not >>> seem to care as much when censorship comes from the private sector, which >>> has a much more subtle (and efficient) way to affect standards of right, >>> wrong and morality. >>> >>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/sep/13/naomi-wolf-vagina-apple-itunes-c >>> ensors >>> >>> On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Marilia Maciel >> > wrote: >>>> A funnier way to continue the discussion about FB policy and their awkward >>>> views on nudity. >>>> >>>> http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/cartoonists/2012/09/nipplegate-why-th >>>> e-new-yorker-cartoon-department-is-about-to-be-banned-from-facebook.html?cu >>>> rrentPage=all >>>> >>>> >>>> --  >>>> Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade >>>> FGV Direito Rio >>>> >>>> Center for Technology and Society >>>> Getulio Vargas Foundation >>>> Rio de Janeiro - Brazil >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade >>> FGV Direito Rio >>> >>> Center for Technology and Society >>> Getulio Vargas Foundation >>> Rio de Janeiro - Brazil >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org >>> To be removed from the list, visit: >>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >>> >>> For all other list information and functions, see: >>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/ >>> >>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > > -- > Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade > FGV Direito Rio > > Center for Technology and Society > Getulio Vargas Foundation > Rio de Janeiro - Brazil > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >      governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: >      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: >      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >      http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -- Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade FGV Direito Rio Center for Technology and Society Getulio Vargas Foundation Rio de Janeiro - Brazil -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Sun Sep 16 18:28:50 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 10:28:50 +1200 Subject: [governance] Brainstorming [Improvements to IGC Coordination on IG Policies] #Working Groups In-Reply-To: References: <0EF44AC6-D668-4A45-9CC0-D5D084CB6421@ella.com> <4817AFFE-10E4-441D-81C6-4AE88E0184F7@uzh.ch> Message-ID: The 2011 Survey that I had made reference to was sent to the list by Norbert on May 5, 2011. The links were also shared below. Kind Regards, Sala ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Norbert Bollow Date: Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 11:00 PM Subject: Re: "Mapping IG" [Request for Update] To: "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" Cc: coordinators at igcaucus.org Dear Sala Here is a copy of my posting regarding this that I sent on May 5. The analysis papers have been published in the Proceedings of the conference "Consumer Represensation in Information Society", and are also publicly available online, at the link given below. Greetings, Norbert ==snip============================================================= From: Norbert Bollow MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org Subject: Survey results: Public Interest Representation in Information Society Message-Id: <20120505174227.5E4E52FE at quill.bollow.ch> Date: Sat, 5 May 2012 19:42:27 +0200 (CEST) The results of the 2011 survey on Public Interest Representation in Information Society are available here: http://idgovmap.org/Survey_2011 together with two analysis papers (one by me, one by Elena Pavan). Furthermore, the online Map of Internet Governance is now reasonably complete with regard to the Internet governance fora that have been identified as particulrly important on the basis of these survey results: http://idgovmap.org/map/inst_category/key As a next step, if you have practical experiences in engaging at one or more of these fora, it would be good if you could share what you have learned that can empower others. Each page of the Map has an "Edit source" link that allows you add information and email your modified version to the "editors" of the map, currently Jeremy Malcolm and myself. Don't worry too much about whether the syntax is perfect, we can fix such details, just freely write what you think would be valuable for others to read in preparation for engaging in Internet governance. Many thanks in advance for your contributions to the Map, and also of course my sincere thanks again to all who have responded to the survey. Greetings, Norbert > Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 04:38:37 +1200 > From: "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> > Cc: coordinators at igcaucus.org > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Dear Norbert, > > I was wondering whether the papers you did concerning Public Interest > Representation in Information Society are public documents and can be > shared for discussion. I was also wondering whether this was also > shared within the IGC at any stage. > > I think that they are excellent and critical because you had consulted > widely and presented your analysis in a critical manner. I was > wondering whether you would consider sharing this with the IGC with > the view of concentrating on how we wish to engage. > > Kind Regards, > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 9:35 PM, Norbert Bollow wrote: > > Hello Sala > > > > Thanks for writing, and your interest! Your greetings from Fiji make me > > dream of warm temperatures, palms and beaches! It is cold here, it's winter > > and there's fresh snow outside. > > > > About Mapping IG: The preparatory phase for the IGC workshop has resulted in > > the formation of a "Dynamic Working Coalition for Internet Governance > > Mapping" with a website and mailing list at http://idgovmap.org and a good > > collaboration in particular with Consumers International, leading to a > > survey on "Public Interest Representation in Information Society". Jeremy > > presented preliminary results at the workshop, and I've written a report > > (draft attached), which is currently being proofread. As soon as this is > > finalized and published, I'll incorporate much of its text into the online > > draft Map. > > > > The workshop in Nairobi itself was good but not quite up to my expectations. > > One major challenge was that the remote participation infrastructure was > > simply not working, so that neither our two remote panelists nor any other > > remote participants were able to interact as expected. I'm attaching what > > I've submitted as *preliminary* workshop report, to be amended if/when the > > IGF secretariat finally succeeds in making the workshop transcript > > available. (The real-time transcription is not usable as it was also > > affected by whatever technical problems they were having with our workshop > > room, but the IGF secretariat has promised to make a transcript available on > > the basis of a video recording of the workshop. This hasn't happened yet > > though.) A picture, the definitive list of panelists and links are available > > online at http://idgovmap.org/Workshop_Nairobi_2011 . > > > > As you may recall, the "Mapping IG" workshop idea was something that really > > resulted from the discussions on the IGC mailing list, with McTim perhaps > > being the most central contributor to the emergence of this idea. However it > > is not worth much to just talk about the need for a Map: The work to > > actually create and maintain it must somehow be done, and financed, etc. For > > now, I'm going forward with this as I can, although my ability to work on > > this is severely hindered by the current lack of funding. (Consumers > > International has helped me very significantly in that respect last year, > > and Andrea Glorioso of the European Commission has indicated that they might > > be able to fund a bit of work, but there are no concrete offers yet.) > > > > The next major step for me is a talk that I'll give about the Mapping IG > > project and survey at the conference "Consumers in the Information Society" > > in Kuala Lumpur in early March. I hope to be able to convince some consumer > > organizations to become active users of the draft map and contributors to > > its further development. > > > > I'm also planning to be at the next IGF in Baku and I'm thinking about > > proposing another "Mapping IG" related workshop: I feel that should be one > > that is narrower in scope, to focus on one or two aspects of Mapping IG and > > making such a Map practically useful. I have little to no idea yet though > > what these focus areas should be, so any thoughts in relation to that which > > you might have would be most welcome! > > > > Greetings, > > Norbert > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From lmcknigh at syr.edu Sun Sep 16 18:35:05 2012 From: lmcknigh at syr.edu (Lee W McKnight) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 22:35:05 +0000 Subject: [governance] IPv4, R.I.P.: Europe hits old internet address limits Message-ID: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B138739@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> Please note we are all on the 'old internet' : ( http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-19600718 Lee -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ivarhartmann at gmail.com Sun Sep 16 21:17:40 2012 From: ivarhartmann at gmail.com (Ivar A. M. Hartmann) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 22:17:40 -0300 Subject: [governance] Re: Facebook and the nipplegate: New Yorker temporarily banned In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Trying to figure out which kind of censorship is worst or with more perverse impact - if from government or from private companies - is simply besides the point. Both must be denounced and fought. This kind of differentiation reminds me of the old hierarchy of human rights, whereby some argued that human right X is more important and therefore violations of human right Y should not be addressed until violations of X are fully protected against. Furthermore, when it comes to free speech in a digital environment completely controlled by private companies (I'm certainly not talking about social networks alone), censorship practices that more often than not go unnoticed (how do you learn about something that isn't there for you to read/see) surely deserve everyone's full attention. A jail full of dissidents is evidence of repression, but where's the evidence of thousands of deleted posts and pictures? Twitter is for the most part alone in trying to make content removal transparent. Best, Ivar On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 5:56 PM, Ian Peter wrote: > Perhaps in analysing this it is worth looking at the range of unilateral > options that can be pursued by corporations or governments acting without > consultation to affect censorship. I am sure my list is not exhaustive, but > it includes > > > - national firewalls > - removing content from affected sites by complying corporations > - removing host servers from networks by complying nations or > corporations within nations hosting servers > - removing host names by registries or registrars in the nations > hosting such registries and registrars > - compliance following court orders within the country of citizenship > of an offending individual to remove offending material > > > > These of course can all be in competing jurisdictions. And I only need to > get one of the above acting in my interest in blocking freedom of > expression, not all. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > *From: *Marilia Maciel > *Date: *Sun, 16 Sep 2012 17:29:44 -0300 > *To: *Ian Peter > *Cc: * > > *Subject: *Re: [governance] Re: Facebook and the nipplegate: New Yorker > temporarily banned > > I totally agree, Ian. Caught on the mess, it is natural that companies > will chose the lowest common denominator to avoid legal problems - after > all, they are committed to gain profit, not to fight for civil liberties - > and this happens on the disadvantage of FoE. > > Best, > Marília > > On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 5:14 PM, Ian Peter wrote: > > Agree with Marilia. The Paypal actions against Wikileaks stays in my mind > as another example. > > Yes, unilateral corporate censorship is a growing problem. But in dealing > with it we have to point out that the dangers of unilateral government > censorship without consultation with other affected jurisdictions presents > similar problems. At the very least, we need some universally agreed to > guiding principles for such actions – and this would be in the interests of > corporations, who must be driven crazy dealing with the whims and political > motivations of 180 odd separate nation state entities all demanding > separate actions within their jurisdictions on a network which was not > designed to be able to affect separate national content variations. > > Ian Peter > > ------------------------------ > *From: *Marilia Maciel http://mariliamaciel at gmail.com> > > *Reply-To: * http://governance at lists.igcaucus.org> >, Marilia Maciel < > mariliamaciel at gmail.com > > > *Date: *Sun, 16 Sep 2012 16:37:19 -0300 > *To: *William Drake > > *Cc: *"governance at lists.igcaucus.org > " > > > *Subject: *Re: [governance] Re: Facebook and the nipplegate: New Yorker > temporarily banned > > > Hi Bill, > > What is more important than what is a highly arguable, and, in my opinion, > fruitless debate. Ask any woman who has been engaged in activism on sexual > and reproductive rights the importance of this globally omnipresent > company's censorship on the word "vagina". > > In addition, in my opinion, private censorship can be much more dangerous > exactly because they do not come from imposition (rough power), but from > soft power. To organize and resist soft power and to distinguish where "the > enemy lies" is much harder. Conservative ideas get embedded in our minds > before we have the chance to question them. It is certainly easier to > identify that "chinese firewall is bad". > > I hope we learn to split our attention among these important cases of > censorship more wisely. > > Marília > > On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 4:24 PM, William Drake http://william.drake at uzh.ch> > wrote: > > Maybe because the cases pale in comparison to the types of repression said > FoE fighters tend to focus on, and because people can mobilize to redress > them if they care enough without having to resort to intergovernmental > politics? > > Bill > > On Sep 16, 2012, at 21:07, Marilia Maciel http://mariliamaciel at gmail.com> > wrote: > > More censorship. From Apple, this time. I wonder why FoE fighters do not > seem to care as much when censorship comes from the private sector, which > has a much more subtle (and efficient) way to affect standards of right, > wrong and morality. > > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/sep/13/naomi-wolf-vagina-apple-itunes-censors > > On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Marilia Maciel http://mariliamaciel at gmail.com> > wrote: > > A funnier way to continue the discussion about FB policy and their awkward > views on nudity. > > > http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/cartoonists/2012/09/nipplegate-why-the-new-yorker-cartoon-department-is-about-to-be-banned-from-facebook.html?currentPage=all > > > -- > Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade > FGV Direito Rio > > Center for Technology and Society > Getulio Vargas Foundation > Rio de Janeiro - Brazil > > > > > -- > Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade > FGV Direito Rio > > Center for Technology and Society > Getulio Vargas Foundation > Rio de Janeiro - Brazil > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > > > -- > Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade > FGV Direito Rio > > Center for Technology and Society > Getulio Vargas Foundation > Rio de Janeiro - Brazil > > ------------------------------ > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > > > -- > Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade > FGV Direito Rio > > Center for Technology and Society > Getulio Vargas Foundation > Rio de Janeiro - Brazil > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Sun Sep 16 21:55:25 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 07:25:25 +0530 Subject: [governance] IPv4, R.I.P.: Europe hits old internet address limits In-Reply-To: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B138739@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> References: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B138739@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: And Kudos Norway for heading the internet "shift" movement! (I always thought it would be the UK or the US at #1; funny they're not even top 10) http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-17938580 -C On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 4:05 AM, Lee W McKnight wrote: > Please note we are all on the 'old internet' : ( > > http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-19600718 > > Lee > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From admin at alkasir.com Mon Sep 17 04:40:25 2012 From: admin at alkasir.com (Walid AL-SAQAF ) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 10:40:25 +0200 Subject: [governance] IPv4, R.I.P.: Europe hits old internet address limits In-Reply-To: References: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B138739@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: Thanks Lee for bringing this up, I've been asked by my students what is causing this slow shift for the rest of the world. I tell them that it is a combination of determination by the ISPs and the costs associated with new equipment, software, and solutions to maintain a co-existence of both IPv4 and IPv6 (e.g., dual/IP stacking, tunneling, etc.). Apparently, Norway has both a determination and enough cash to get things moving quicker than the rest. Though a bit old, this fine article by Geoff Duncan is very useful to have a full idea of what is going on: http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/world-ipv6-launch-day-explained-the-next-unseen-evolution-of-the-web/ Geoff says: > Most ISPs don’t offer IPv6 connectivity to their customers — even if > they’re starting to use it on their own networks — so even if you’re savvy > enough to set up IPv6 on your own, the odds are good that you’ll be > tunneling down to IPv4 as soon as you try to connect to the broader > Internet. I just tested with my own ISP here in Sweden and can verify the above! Sincerely, Walid ----------------- Walid Al-Saqaf Founder & Administrator alkasir for mapping and circumventing cyber censorship https://alkasir.com On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 3:55 AM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar wrote: > And Kudos Norway for heading the internet "shift" movement! (I always > thought it would be the UK or the US at #1; funny they're not even top 10) > > http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-17938580 > > > -C > > On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 4:05 AM, Lee W McKnight wrote: > >> Please note we are all on the 'old internet' : ( >> >> http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-19600718 >> >> Lee >> >> >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From daniel at digsys.bg Mon Sep 17 06:45:44 2012 From: daniel at digsys.bg (Daniel Kalchev) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 13:45:44 +0300 Subject: [governance] Re: Facebook and the nipplegate: New Yorker temporarily banned In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5056FF58.9010502@digsys.bg> On 17.09.12 04:17, Ivar A. M. Hartmann wrote: > A jail full of dissidents is evidence of repression, but where's the > evidence of thousands of deleted posts and pictures? Twitter is for > the most part alone in trying to make content removal transparent. > Why you believe this is the case? Daniel -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From divina.meigs at orange.fr Mon Sep 17 06:57:20 2012 From: divina.meigs at orange.fr (Divina MEIGS) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 12:57:20 +0200 Subject: [governance] New book on NWICO-WSIS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear colleagues Please note that a New ECREA Series book published by Intellect is available >From NWICO to WSIS: 30 Years of Communication Geopolitics Actors and Flows, Structures and Divides, a new book in the ECREA series, edited by Divina Frau-Meigs, Jérémie Nicey, Patricio Tupper, Michael Palmer and Julia Pohle, has been published. http://www.ecrea.eu/news/article/id/187 Two major regulatory activities have framed global media policies since World War II: the New World Information and Communication Order (NWICO) and the more recent World Summit on the Information Society (WSIS). Through extensive research and testimonies from those involved, this book presents an in-depth account from the 1970s to the present of the major issues concerning information flow in international geopolitics, including a look at the negotiations surrounding the major policy debates. Few studies of NWICO and WSIS have considered the continuity between the two activities ­ or included in the debate the crucial intermediary period between ­ and this book provides new insight into an issue of multilingual and multicultural importance. > Book profile on the publisher's website, Intellect The ECREA book series consists of books arising from the intellectual work of ECREA members. Books address themes relevant to the ECREA¹s interests; make a major contribution to the theory, research, practice and/or policy literature; are European in scope; and represent a diversity of perspectives. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From f.massit at orange.fr Mon Sep 17 07:01:34 2012 From: f.massit at orange.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?fran=E7oise?=) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 13:01:34 +0200 Subject: [governance] New book on NWICO-WSIS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bonjour Divina Merci de cette info. Serait-il possible de consulter le sommaire de l'ouvrage ? A très bientôt pour le nouveau Glossaire CF UNESCO Bises FMF Le 17 sept. 12 à 12:57, Divina MEIGS a écrit : > > > Dear colleagues > > Please note that a New ECREA Series book published by Intellect is > available > > From NWICO to WSIS: 30 Years of Communication Geopolitics Actors and > Flows, Structures and Divides, a new book in the ECREA series, > edited by Divina Frau-Meigs, Jérémie Nicey, Patricio Tupper, Michael > Palmer and Julia Pohle, has been published. > > http://www.ecrea.eu/news/article/id/187 > > > Two major regulatory activities have framed global media policies > since World War II: the New World Information and Communication > Order (NWICO) and the more recent World Summit on the Information > Society (WSIS). Through extensive research and testimonies from > those involved, this book presents an in-depth account from the > 1970s to the present of the major issues concerning information flow > in international geopolitics, including a look at the negotiations > surrounding the major policy debates. > > Few studies of NWICO and WSIS have considered the continuity between > the two activities – or included in the debate the crucial > intermediary period between – and this book provides new insight > into an issue of multilingual and multicultural importance. > > > Book profile on the publisher's website, Intellect > > > The ECREA book series consists of books arising from the > intellectual work of ECREA members. Books address themes relevant to > the ECREA’s interests; make a major contribution to the theory, > research, practice and/or policy literature; are European in scope; > and represent a diversity of perspectives. > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From bavouc at gmail.com Mon Sep 17 07:04:39 2012 From: bavouc at gmail.com (Martial Bavou[Private Business Account]) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 12:04:39 +0100 Subject: [governance] New book on NWICO-WSIS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Divina, Thanks for the information about the book, is there a way to have a glance idea of the book summary? Table of content? Regards From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Divina MEIGS Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 11:57 AM To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; governance at lists.cpsr.org Subject: [governance] New book on NWICO-WSIS Importance: High Dear colleagues Please note that a New ECREA Series book published by Intellect is available >From NWICO to WSIS: 30 Years of Communication Geopolitics Actors and Flows, Structures and Divides, a new book in the ECREA series, edited by Divina Frau-Meigs, Jérémie Nicey, Patricio Tupper, Michael Palmer and Julia Pohle, has been published. http://www.ecrea.eu/news/article/id/187 Two major regulatory activities have framed global media policies since World War II: the New World Information and Communication Order (NWICO) and the more recent World Summit on the Information Society (WSIS). Through extensive research and testimonies from those involved, this book presents an in-depth account from the 1970s to the present of the major issues concerning information flow in international geopolitics, including a look at the negotiations surrounding the major policy debates. Few studies of NWICO and WSIS have considered the continuity between the two activities – or included in the debate the crucial intermediary period between – and this book provides new insight into an issue of multilingual and multicultural importance. > Book profile on the publisher's website, Intellect The ECREA book series consists of books arising from the intellectual work of ECREA members. Books address themes relevant to the ECREA’s interests; make a major contribution to the theory, research, practice and/or policy literature; are European in scope; and represent a diversity of perspectives. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Mon Sep 17 08:02:37 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 00:02:37 +1200 Subject: [governance] IPv4, R.I.P.: Europe hits old internet address limits In-Reply-To: References: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B138739@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: Hi Walid, Your students raised a very important question and one that the world is still trying to answer. If the estimation that there will be somewhere around 3 billion users by 2016 and that judging from current internet traffic, volume will continue to increase in days to come, we wonder why the transitioning phase across the world is still slow. I have a few questions for discussion *NATs* Network Address Translators (NATs) were meant to be short term "temporary solutions" whilst working out "complex far reaching solutions" [see: Egevang, K., and P. Francis, "The IP Network Address Translator (NAT)," RFC 1631, May 1994. and Huston, G, "Anatomy: A Look Inside Network Address Translators". Huston talks about the advantages and disadvantages of NATs as he discusses its anatomy at length. *Questions* 1. Why are carriers generally resistant to transitioning to IPv6 and prefer to deal with address shortages through NATs? 2. Is there a possibility that Carriers who in the advent of the Internet have been losing revenue (preference for VOIP over traditional telephony, mobile substitution etc) and have found that a growing revenue pool in content? [What are the possible drivers behind the ETNO?] 3. Is there are possibility that with IPv4 addresses, carriers know exactly what IPv4 addresses are doing, behaving and can "sell" (without our express permission) this information to Advertisers? [Imagine the Privacy issues - Australia, UK and France have called on Google to completely destroy their data or investigate its contents, see: http://www.itnews.com.au/News/311216,privacy-commissioner-orders-google-to-destroy-data.aspx]; In the US, Google was recently fined US $22.5million for Apple Safari Tracking, this was a Privacy Settlement and the largest US FTC Penalty ever for violation of a Commission Order, see: http://www.bgr.com/2012/08/09/google-ftc-safari-tracking-22-5-million-fine/ 4. Are Network Operators and Content Providers fearful of the WCIT because they could potentially lose traditional revenues? *Some Interesting Readings* - Network Service Models and the Internet, his views published on his website this month, see: http://www.potaroo.net/ispcol/2012-09/telecommsandip.html - On the Content economy, his views published on his website in 2001, see: http://www.potaroo.net/ispcol/2001-06/2001-06-content.html - On Carriage v Content, his views published on his website in July, 2012, see: http://www.potaroo.net/ispcol/2012-07/carriagevcontent.html. He talks briefly about ITRs and ETNO proposal in relation to the ITRs - Anatomy: A Look Inside Network Address Translators, see: http://www.cisco.com/web/about/ac123/ac147/archived_issues/ipj_7-3/anatomy.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ivarhartmann at gmail.com Mon Sep 17 08:32:50 2012 From: ivarhartmann at gmail.com (Ivar A. M. Hartmann) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 09:32:50 -0300 Subject: [governance] Re: Facebook and the nipplegate: New Yorker temporarily banned In-Reply-To: <5056FF58.9010502@digsys.bg> References: <5056FF58.9010502@digsys.bg> Message-ID: Which of the two statements are you referring to, Daniel? On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 7:45 AM, Daniel Kalchev wrote: > > > On 17.09.12 04:17, Ivar A. M. Hartmann wrote: > >> A jail full of dissidents is evidence of repression, but where's the >> evidence of thousands of deleted posts and pictures? Twitter is for the >> most part alone in trying to make content removal transparent. >> >> > Why you believe this is the case? > > Daniel > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From lmcknigh at syr.edu Mon Sep 17 08:42:05 2012 From: lmcknigh at syr.edu (Lee W McKnight) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 12:42:05 +0000 Subject: [governance] IPv4, R.I.P.: Europe hits old internet address limits In-Reply-To: References: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B138739@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> , Message-ID: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B138888@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> Sala, Walid, Good to open another discussion, now that we've got the future of ICANN as a free agent all figured out. (Right Parminder? ; ). My views are that IPv6 though a relatively cooked 16 year old technology, is also still a pain in the...to get up and going even for the net guru types. Which is another way of saying it is not ready for primetime/for every average net user to self-configure for their local lane on the Internet. But it is already the baseline for the Internet of Things, so v6 addresses as identifiers of things on the net will be the default for a lot of - things. And there are many more billions of things than people, who are a minority already on the net. So my prediction is the machines will be the early adopters and we humans will be the later adopters. People will rely on IPv4 and NATs until there is a tipping point/x% of human net users directly reachable on IPv6. What that number is...well maybe someone has a good model now, but all the early IPv6 adoption forecasts way way way underestimated the complexity and challenges of upgrading a global net. Except mine, since back at y2k time 13 years ago I was saying - the upgrade to IPv6 was going to be a bigger headache. : ) Lots of net engineers have consumed lots of aspirin since then confirming I was right. Still, from the code perspective, IPv6 is not that complicated - we are after all mainly talking about having a bigger address space. Still, remember also IPv6 was basically developed early-mid-90s. Which is a reminder also of the decades of genius tinkering that got us to where we are on the IPv4 Internet, since its ~1981 initial address block allocations. Therefore, my forecast is for a heterogeneous messy mish-mash of IPv4 and IPv6 networks interconnected at lots of dual-stack points; with legacy IPv4 and NATs living on for quite some time. Until...that tipping point. Lee ________________________________ From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] on behalf of Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro [salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 8:02 AM To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org Subject: Re: [governance] IPv4, R.I.P.: Europe hits old internet address limits Hi Walid, Your students raised a very important question and one that the world is still trying to answer. If the estimation that there will be somewhere around 3 billion users by 2016 and that judging from current internet traffic, volume will continue to increase in days to come, we wonder why the transitioning phase across the world is still slow. I have a few questions for discussion NATs Network Address Translators (NATs) were meant to be short term "temporary solutions" whilst working out "complex far reaching solutions" [see: Egevang, K., and P. Francis, "The IP Network Address Translator (NAT)," RFC 1631, May 1994. and Huston, G, "Anatomy: A Look Inside Network Address Translators". Huston talks about the advantages and disadvantages of NATs as he discusses its anatomy at length. Questions 1. Why are carriers generally resistant to transitioning to IPv6 and prefer to deal with address shortages through NATs? 2. Is there a possibility that Carriers who in the advent of the Internet have been losing revenue (preference for VOIP over traditional telephony, mobile substitution etc) and have found that a growing revenue pool in content? [What are the possible drivers behind the ETNO?] 3. Is there are possibility that with IPv4 addresses, carriers know exactly what IPv4 addresses are doing, behaving and can "sell" (without our express permission) this information to Advertisers? [Imagine the Privacy issues - Australia, UK and France have called on Google to completely destroy their data or investigate its contents, see: http://www.itnews.com.au/News/311216,privacy-commissioner-orders-google-to-destroy-data.aspx]; In the US, Google was recently fined US $22.5million for Apple Safari Tracking, this was a Privacy Settlement and the largest US FTC Penalty ever for violation of a Commission Order, see: http://www.bgr.com/2012/08/09/google-ftc-safari-tracking-22-5-million-fine/ 4. Are Network Operators and Content Providers fearful of the WCIT because they could potentially lose traditional revenues? Some Interesting Readings * Network Service Models and the Internet, his views published on his website this month, see: http://www.potaroo.net/ispcol/2012-09/telecommsandip.html * On the Content economy, his views published on his website in 2001, see: http://www.potaroo.net/ispcol/2001-06/2001-06-content.html * On Carriage v Content, his views published on his website in July, 2012, see: http://www.potaroo.net/ispcol/2012-07/carriagevcontent.html. He talks briefly about ITRs and ETNO proposal in relation to the ITRs * Anatomy: A Look Inside Network Address Translators, see: http://www.cisco.com/web/about/ac123/ac147/archived_issues/ipj_7-3/anatomy.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From daniel at digsys.bg Mon Sep 17 08:48:20 2012 From: daniel at digsys.bg (Daniel Kalchev) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 15:48:20 +0300 Subject: [governance] Re: Facebook and the nipplegate: New Yorker temporarily banned In-Reply-To: References: <5056FF58.9010502@digsys.bg> Message-ID: <50571C14.4080306@digsys.bg> The one about Twitter. I can understand Twitter claiming transparency, but can't believe for a moment they are indeed transparent about it (makes no sense). If you are not 100% transparent, because that is simply not possible, how much is "enough"? Daniel On 17.09.12 15:32, Ivar A. M. Hartmann wrote: > Which of the two statements are you referring to, Daniel? > > On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 7:45 AM, Daniel Kalchev > wrote: > > > > On 17.09.12 04:17, Ivar A. M. Hartmann wrote: > > A jail full of dissidents is evidence of repression, but > where's the evidence of thousands of deleted posts and > pictures? Twitter is for the most part alone in trying to make > content removal transparent. > > > Why you believe this is the case? > > Daniel > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ivarhartmann at gmail.com Mon Sep 17 09:48:06 2012 From: ivarhartmann at gmail.com (Ivar A. M. Hartmann) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 10:48:06 -0300 Subject: [governance] Re: Facebook and the nipplegate: New Yorker temporarily banned In-Reply-To: <50571C14.4080306@digsys.bg> References: <5056FF58.9010502@digsys.bg> <50571C14.4080306@digsys.bg> Message-ID: I don't believe Twitter or any other profit-seeking corporation makes an effort to protect free speech systematically when it threatens their income. Twitter's strategy of making content removals visible is a business (PR) one, not a human rights protection mechanism. How much transparency is enough transparency is indeed the key question here. This can't be answered in a simple email, but I dare say enough transparency is that which enables full scrutiny of a company or government's actions. Best, Ivar On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 9:48 AM, Daniel Kalchev wrote: > The one about Twitter. > > I can understand Twitter claiming transparency, but can't believe for a > moment they are indeed transparent about it (makes no sense). > > If you are not 100% transparent, because that is simply not possible, how > much is "enough"? > > Daniel > > > On 17.09.12 15:32, Ivar A. M. Hartmann wrote: > > Which of the two statements are you referring to, Daniel? > > On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 7:45 AM, Daniel Kalchev wrote: > >> >> >> On 17.09.12 04:17, Ivar A. M. Hartmann wrote: >> >>> A jail full of dissidents is evidence of repression, but where's the >>> evidence of thousands of deleted posts and pictures? Twitter is for the >>> most part alone in trying to make content removal transparent. >>> >>> >> Why you believe this is the case? >> >> Daniel >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From dogwallah at gmail.com Mon Sep 17 09:56:16 2012 From: dogwallah at gmail.com (McTim) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 09:56:16 -0400 Subject: [governance] Facebook and the nipplegate: New Yorker temporarily banned In-Reply-To: References: <5056FF58.9010502@digsys.bg> <50571C14.4080306@digsys.bg> Message-ID: On Monday, September 17, 2012, Ivar A. M. Hartmann wrote: > I don't believe Twitter or any other profit-seeking corporation makes an > effort to protect free speech systematically when it threatens their > income. Twitter's strategy of making content removals visible is a business > (PR) one, not a human rights protection mechanism. > How much transparency is enough transparency is indeed the key question > here. This can't be answered in a simple email, but I dare say enough > transparency is that which enables full scrutiny of a company or > government's actions. Like this: http://www.google.com/transparencyreport/ Rgds, McTim Mct > Best, > Ivar > > On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 9:48 AM, Daniel Kalchev > > wrote: > >> The one about Twitter. >> >> I can understand Twitter claiming transparency, but can't believe for a >> moment they are indeed transparent about it (makes no sense). >> >> If you are not 100% transparent, because that is simply not possible, how >> much is "enough"? >> >> Daniel >> >> >> On 17.09.12 15:32, Ivar A. M. Hartmann wrote: >> >> Which of the two statements are you referring to, Daniel? >> >> On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 7:45 AM, Daniel Kalchev >> > wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On 17.09.12 04:17, Ivar A. M. Hartmann wrote: >>> >>>> A jail full of dissidents is evidence of repression, but where's the >>>> evidence of thousands of deleted posts and pictures? Twitter is for the >>>> most part alone in trying to make content removal transparent. >>>> >>>> >>> Why you believe this is the case? >>> >>> Daniel >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> 'governance at lists.igcaucus.org');> >>> To be removed from the list, visit: >>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >>> >>> For all other list information and functions, see: >>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >>> >>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >>> >>> >> > -- Cheers, McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ivarhartmann at gmail.com Mon Sep 17 10:02:07 2012 From: ivarhartmann at gmail.com (Ivar A. M. Hartmann) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 11:02:07 -0300 Subject: [governance] Facebook and the nipplegate: New Yorker temporarily banned In-Reply-To: References: <5056FF58.9010502@digsys.bg> <50571C14.4080306@digsys.bg> Message-ID: That's a great example! It had slipped my mind. Thank you for poiting it out! On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 10:56 AM, McTim wrote: > > > On Monday, September 17, 2012, Ivar A. M. Hartmann wrote: > >> I don't believe Twitter or any other profit-seeking corporation makes an >> effort to protect free speech systematically when it threatens their >> income. Twitter's strategy of making content removals visible is a business >> (PR) one, not a human rights protection mechanism. >> How much transparency is enough transparency is indeed the key question >> here. This can't be answered in a simple email, but I dare say enough >> transparency is that which enables full scrutiny of a company or >> government's actions. > > > > Like this: > > > http://www.google.com/transparencyreport/ > > Rgds, McTim > > > > > > Mct > > > > > > > >> Best, >> Ivar >> >> On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 9:48 AM, Daniel Kalchev wrote: >> >>> The one about Twitter. >>> >>> I can understand Twitter claiming transparency, but can't believe for a >>> moment they are indeed transparent about it (makes no sense). >>> >>> If you are not 100% transparent, because that is simply not possible, >>> how much is "enough"? >>> >>> Daniel >>> >>> >>> On 17.09.12 15:32, Ivar A. M. Hartmann wrote: >>> >>> Which of the two statements are you referring to, Daniel? >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 7:45 AM, Daniel Kalchev wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 17.09.12 04:17, Ivar A. M. Hartmann wrote: >>>> >>>>> A jail full of dissidents is evidence of repression, but where's the >>>>> evidence of thousands of deleted posts and pictures? Twitter is for the >>>>> most part alone in trying to make content removal transparent. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Why you believe this is the case? >>>> >>>> Daniel >>>> >>>> >>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >>>> To be removed from the list, visit: >>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >>>> >>>> For all other list information and functions, see: >>>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >>>> >>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >>>> >>>> >>> >> > > -- > Cheers, > > McTim > "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route > indicates how we get there." Jon Postel > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From drc at virtualized.org Mon Sep 17 10:03:39 2012 From: drc at virtualized.org (David Conrad) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 07:03:39 -0700 Subject: [governance] IPv4, R.I.P.: Europe hits old internet address limits In-Reply-To: References: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B138739@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: On Sep 17, 2012, at 1:40 AM, Walid AL-SAQAF wrote: > I've been asked by my students what is causing this slow shift for the rest of the world. One reason (as mentioned by a person from an Iranian ISP on the RIPE-NCC Address Policy Working Group mailing list): "Nationwide Fiber optic infrastructure and internet gateway operated by government and they do not have a short-term plan for IPv6 at this moment also using any type of tunnel in Iran is illegal and if we use this it is push me to jail for at least 6 months." Regards, -drc -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From divina.meigs at orange.fr Mon Sep 17 11:03:28 2012 From: divina.meigs at orange.fr (Divina MEIGS) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 17:03:28 +0200 Subject: [governance] New book on NWICO-WSIS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I¹ll do my best to get Intellect to send me one, and i¹ll resend via the list as several people are looking for it too divina Le 17/09/12 13:04, « Martial Bavou[Private Business Account] » a écrit : > Hi Divina, > > Thanks for the information about the book, is there a way to have a glance > idea of the book summary? Table of content? > > Regards > > > From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org > [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Divina MEIGS > Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 11:57 AM > To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; governance at lists.cpsr.org > Subject: [governance] New book on NWICO-WSIS > Importance: High > > > > Dear colleagues > > Please note that a New ECREA Series book published by Intellect is available > > From NWICO to WSIS: 30 Years of Communication Geopolitics Actors and Flows, > Structures and Divides, a new book in the ECREA series, edited by Divina > Frau-Meigs, Jérémie Nicey, Patricio Tupper, Michael Palmer and Julia Pohle, > has been published. > > http://www.ecrea.eu/news/article/id/187 > > > Two major regulatory activities have framed global media policies since World > War II: the New World Information and Communication Order (NWICO) and the more > recent World Summit on the Information Society (WSIS). Through extensive > research and testimonies from those involved, this book presents an in-depth > account from the 1970s to the present of the major issues concerning > information flow in international geopolitics, including a look at the > negotiations surrounding the major policy debates. > > Few studies of NWICO and WSIS have considered the continuity between the two > activities ­ or included in the debate the crucial intermediary period between > ­ and this book provides new insight into an issue of multilingual and > multicultural importance. > >> > Book profile on the publisher's website, Intellect >> > > The ECREA book series consists of books arising from the intellectual work of > ECREA members. Books address themes relevant to the ECREA¹s interests; make a > major contribution to the theory, research, practice and/or policy literature; > are European in scope; and represent a diversity of perspectives. > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From avri at ella.com Mon Sep 17 15:30:56 2012 From: avri at ella.com (Avri Doria) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 15:30:56 -0400 Subject: [governance] IPv4, R.I.P.: Europe hits old internet address limits In-Reply-To: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B138888@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> References: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B138739@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> , <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B138888@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: <359E2F5D-EA54-4C2D-A11A-7C55B5A07183@ella.com> On 17 Sep 2012, at 08:42, Lee W McKnight wrote: > Therefore, my forecast is for a heterogeneous messy mish-mash of IPv4 and IPv6 networks interconnected at lots of dual-stack points; with legacy IPv4 and NATs living on for quite some time. > > Until...that tipping point. Hopefully by that tipping point there will be a better solution that integrates v4 and v6 and fixes the routing. Also are we sure the v6 will be the address of choice for IoT? I understand that is not yet a given. avri -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From hasansf at gmail.com Mon Sep 17 16:19:15 2012 From: hasansf at gmail.com (Faisal Hasan) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 02:19:15 +0600 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube Message-ID: Dear all, Bangladesh govt. blocks youTube from today in order to avoid impending violence. This is a serious concern for us who advocate that "content filtering is not a solution rather it should be removed at the source." We understand that this is an issue of "freedom of expression" and due to the corresponding legislation Google is not being able to remove it. On behalf of the Internet Society Bangladesh Dhaka Chapter may I request chapter delegates and people concerned with Internet governance issues to think about ways how we can address this sort of issues in future. There should be a global consensus about the content that fuels deadly violence shouldn't be hosted by anybody, content that has been flagged by thousands of people should be removed, content about which one third of the worlds population has unequivocal objection can definitely set aside from other contents. I guess most of you will agree that this is a very sensitive issue and Muslims around the world are deeply shocked by the violence thats being erupting all over the world killing innocent lives as well as by the fact that the content still stays at the source. Kind Regards Faisal Hasan, PhD Chapter President Internet Society Bangladesh Dhaka Chapter -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Mon Sep 17 16:43:44 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 08:43:44 +1200 Subject: [governance] IPv4, R.I.P.: Europe hits old internet address limits In-Reply-To: <359E2F5D-EA54-4C2D-A11A-7C55B5A07183@ella.com> References: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B138739@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B138888@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> <359E2F5D-EA54-4C2D-A11A-7C55B5A07183@ella.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 7:30 AM, Avri Doria wrote: > > On 17 Sep 2012, at 08:42, Lee W McKnight wrote: > > > Therefore, my forecast is for a heterogeneous messy mish-mash of IPv4 > and IPv6 networks interconnected at lots of dual-stack points; with legacy > IPv4 and NATs living on for quite some time. > > > > Until...that tipping point. > > > Hopefully by that tipping point there will be a better solution that > integrates v4 and v6 and fixes the routing. > > Also are we sure the v6 will be the address of choice for IoT? I > understand that is not yet a given. > That is indeed an interesting question about whether v6 will be an address of choice for the Internet of Things. I was wondering whether the same can be said for gTLDs and their future in light of dotless domains. > > > avri > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From lmcknigh at syr.edu Mon Sep 17 16:56:27 2012 From: lmcknigh at syr.edu (Lee W McKnight) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 20:56:27 +0000 Subject: [governance] IPv4, R.I.P.: Europe hits old internet address limits In-Reply-To: References: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B138739@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B138888@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> <359E2F5D-EA54-4C2D-A11A-7C55B5A07183@ella.com>, Message-ID: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B138A6C@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> My initial guesstimate that 'things' will tip the balance is extrapolating from the thing in most of your pockets, or on which you are currently reading this message, which already comes with IPv6 inside. And has for several years. IPv6 has just not been turned on and used yet by (most) mobile carriers. Still yeah there is a wide array of things, and for some the overhead of IPv6 is too much. And lots of other tags exist which do not presume a specific form of - IP - to identify a thing. So yes, it may well be too soon to say which way the Internet of Things will - vote? Though I am still predicting the 20 billion things on the net by 2020, per Cisco, will outvote us humans in making the call. (I haven't seen any polling numbers on the things preferences just yet, to back that hunch up just yet, I admit. ; : ) Lee ________________________________ From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] on behalf of Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro [salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 4:43 PM To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Avri Doria Subject: Re: [governance] IPv4, R.I.P.: Europe hits old internet address limits On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 7:30 AM, Avri Doria > wrote: On 17 Sep 2012, at 08:42, Lee W McKnight wrote: > Therefore, my forecast is for a heterogeneous messy mish-mash of IPv4 and IPv6 networks interconnected at lots of dual-stack points; with legacy IPv4 and NATs living on for quite some time. > > Until...that tipping point. Hopefully by that tipping point there will be a better solution that integrates v4 and v6 and fixes the routing. Also are we sure the v6 will be the address of choice for IoT? I understand that is not yet a given. That is indeed an interesting question about whether v6 will be an address of choice for the Internet of Things. I was wondering whether the same can be said for gTLDs and their future in light of dotless domains. avri ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Mon Sep 17 16:58:22 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 08:58:22 +1200 Subject: [governance] Freedom of Expression #FoX #FoE #Yemen #Libya In-Reply-To: References: <8CF60891E839C44-128C-60CD7@webmail-m155.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Faisal (ISOC Bangladesh) has shared about the Bangladesh Government blocking You Tube. This in my view would be the second extreme that I was highlighting in my earlier response to Rony, namely: Abuse of the Exceptions in Article 19 where this goes against the preamble of the ICCPR or the spirit in which these provisions were crafted. On one hand for the Bangladesh Government to make that call, they are entitled to want to maintain and preserve law and order given the violent outbreak in Karachi, Pakistan that was reported in the news as a result of a "particular" content on You Tube. Does this mean that they should be able to block the entire You Tube? They were probably scared of the various versions that have been made of the film and probably felt that this was the right thing to do. On other hand, there is legitimate content like the Khan videos that are being blocked out. What are some of the solutions that the Bangladesh government could have done to solve the problem of stopping a mass riot yet enable access? Dear all, Bangladesh govt. blocks youTube from today in order to avoid impending violence. This is a serious concern for us who advocate that "content filtering is not a solution rather it should be removed at the source." We understand that this is an issue of "freedom of expression" and due to the corresponding legislation Google is not being able to remove it. On behalf of the Internet Society Bangladesh Dhaka Chapter may I request chapter delegates and people concerned with Internet governance issues to think about ways how we can address this sort of issues in future. There should be a global consensus about the content that fuels deadly violence shouldn't be hosted by anybody, content that has been flagged by thousands of people should be removed, content about which one third of the worlds population has unequivocal objection can definitely set aside from other contents. I guess most of you will agree that this is a very sensitive issue and Muslims around the world are deeply shocked by the violence thats being erupting all over the world killing innocent lives as well as by the fact that the content still stays at the source. Kind Regards Faisal Hasan, PhD Chapter President Internet Society Bangladesh Dhaka Chapter On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 8:20 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear Rony, > > One of the things that don't get discussed in my view often enough as far > as Article 19 of the ICCPR is concerned is the exception and the abuse of > the exceptions. This is because from observation, we are witnessing both > extremes of the spectrum. These are what I perceive to be extremes:- > > - Absolute Freedom of Expression where there is a perception that this > is an unfettered right; > - Abuse of the Exceptions in Article 19 where this goes against the > preamble of the ICCPR or the spirit in which these provisions were crafted. > > The events that occurred in Libya resulting from a person's freedom of > expression led to the causing turbulence which resulted in a "viral spill > over" (Aldo Matteuci) that not only threatened law and order but lives > were taken. > > In Aldo's piece, he points to the French Declaration of the Rights of Man > and of the Citizen 1789, see: > > "Article 10—No-one should be harassed for his opinions, even religious > views, provided that the expression of such opinions does not cause a > breach of the peace as established by law. > > Article 11—The free communication of thought and opinions is one of the > most precious rights of man. Any citizen can therefore speak, write and > publish freely; however, they are answerable for abuse of this freedom as > determined by law." > > Source: > http://www.diplomacy.edu/blog/168-%E2%80%93-i%E2%80%99m-deeply-saddened-today > > > In my view, Article 19 of the ICCPR was not designed to be interpreted > according to the two extremes, they were meant to be read in the spirit of > the preamble. The reality is that the two extremes have the potential to > bring about much harm to the ordinary person on the street. In the first > extreme, we see with the case the effect that one "video" could incite such > vehemence and hatred leading to the loss of innocent lives. > > The fact that the crafters of the French Declaration of the Rights of Man > or the ICCPR could foresee challenges of both extremes meant that they had > witnessed and made observations.History has been a great teacher but not > so great if we continue to repeat our errors. > > Of course all this is based on the assumption that we all want "peace". > > > > On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 12:10 AM, Koven Ronald wrote: > >> Dear Sala -- >> >> I was very bothered by this statement of yours justifying restrictions >> on freedom of expression. Of course, we all know that freedom of speech >> can't be absolute. But proclaiming that evident home truth in difficult >> contexts like the present crisis can only lend comfort to the >> restrictionists of freedom of expression. >> >> There is a generally accepted Anglo-Saxon legal dictum: "Hard cases >> make bad law." We seem to be confronted with just such a "hard case." Here >> is a NYTimes article today on the dilemma of major I'net service providers >> over stopping access to the offensive anti-Mohammed film: >> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/14/technology/google-blocks-inflammatory-video-in-egypt-and-libya.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20120914 >> >> The article reflects the understandably ambivalent responses of free >> speech advocates to this crisis. The issue should be approached in a more >> nuanced way than merely noting that freedom of expression isn't absolute. >> >> It seems to me that a more helpful approach, for example, is to note >> that incitement to violence with the likelihood that the violence will >> ensue is not legal anywhere, including under the anti-restrictionist US >> First Amendment. One could argue that the film in question is just such an >> incitement -- and that its producers likely knew that to be the case. That >> would put a rather different light on restricting access to the film than >> simply making a blanket statement to the effect that freedom of expression >> is not absolute. >> >> Best regards, Rony Koven, World Press Freedom Committee >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro > > >> To: governance >> Sent: Thu, Sep 13, 2012 10:17 pm >> Subject: [governance] Freedom of Expression #FoX #FoE #Yemen #Libya >> >> Dear All, >> >> International law is clear about Freedom of Expression not being an >> unfettered right as espoused within these laws themselves and has been >> discussed at great length on the list numerous times over. I was also >> saddened that the irresponsible production of "content" was used to enflame >> tension and accelerate unrest and cause a massive revolt amongst those that >> were deeply offended by it. >> >> There is a piece written by Aldo, see: >> http://www.diplomacy.edu/blog/168-%E2%80%93-i%E2%80%99m-deeply-saddened-today >> >> >> Kind Regards, >> >> -- >> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala >> P.O. Box 17862 >> Suva >> Fiji >> >> Twitter: @SalanietaT >> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro >> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 >> >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ias_pk at yahoo.com Mon Sep 17 17:03:38 2012 From: ias_pk at yahoo.com (Imran Ahmed Shah) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 14:03:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube Message-ID: <1347915818.61887.BPMail_low_noncarrier@web125103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Youtube was first blocked by Afghanistan and today Government of Pakistan also blocked its access in protest. Prime Minister asked to block youtube access until youtube remove anti-Islam contents/videos. Pakistan Telecommunication Authority also blocked about 700+ websites yesterday to follow the Supreme Court Orders. Regards Imran Ahmed Shah for IGFPAK ------------------------------ On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 1:19 AM PKT Faisal Hasan wrote: >Dear all, > >Bangladesh govt. blocks youTube from today in order to avoid impending >violence. This is a serious concern for us who advocate that "content >filtering is not a solution rather it should be removed at the source." We >understand that this is an issue of "freedom of expression" and due to the >corresponding legislation Google is not being able to remove it. > >On behalf of the Internet Society Bangladesh Dhaka Chapter may I request >chapter delegates and people concerned with Internet governance issues to >think about ways how we can address this sort of issues in future. There >should be a global consensus about the content that fuels deadly violence >shouldn't be hosted by anybody, content that has been flagged by thousands >of people should be removed, content about which one third of the worlds >population has unequivocal objection can definitely set aside from other >contents. > >I guess most of you will agree that this is a very sensitive issue and >Muslims around the world are deeply shocked by the violence thats being >erupting all over the world killing innocent lives as well as by the fact >that the content still stays at the source. > >Kind Regards >Faisal Hasan, PhD >Chapter President >Internet Society Bangladesh Dhaka Chapter -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Mon Sep 17 17:08:12 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 09:08:12 +1200 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: <1347915818.61887.BPMail_low_noncarrier@web125103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1347915818.61887.BPMail_low_noncarrier@web125103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Faisal and Imran, It is really sad that we are witnessing this volatile conflict all because of the polarisation of Article 19 of the ICCPR. If people think that it we should make a statement in relation to what is happening, let us know. We can develop a statement. Sala On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 9:03 AM, Imran Ahmed Shah wrote: > > Youtube was first blocked by Afghanistan and today Government of Pakistan > also blocked its access in protest. Prime Minister asked to block youtube > access until youtube remove anti-Islam contents/videos. > > Pakistan Telecommunication Authority also blocked about 700+ websites > yesterday to follow the Supreme Court Orders. > > Regards > > Imran Ahmed Shah > for IGFPAK > ------------------------------ > On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 1:19 AM PKT Faisal Hasan wrote: > > >Dear all, > > > >Bangladesh govt. blocks youTube from today in order to avoid impending > >violence. This is a serious concern for us who advocate that "content > >filtering is not a solution rather it should be removed at the source." > We > >understand that this is an issue of "freedom of expression" and due to > the > >corresponding legislation Google is not being able to remove it. > > > >On behalf of the Internet Society Bangladesh Dhaka Chapter may I request > >chapter delegates and people concerned with Internet governance issues to > >think about ways how we can address this sort of issues in future. There > >should be a global consensus about the content that fuels deadly violence > >shouldn't be hosted by anybody, content that has been flagged by > thousands > >of people should be removed, content about which one third of the worlds > >population has unequivocal objection can definitely set aside from other > >contents. > > > >I guess most of you will agree that this is a very sensitive issue and > >Muslims around the world are deeply shocked by the violence thats being > >erupting all over the world killing innocent lives as well as by the fact > >that the content still stays at the source. > > > >Kind Regards > >Faisal Hasan, PhD > >Chapter President > >Internet Society Bangladesh Dhaka Chapter > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From hasansf at gmail.com Mon Sep 17 17:14:29 2012 From: hasansf at gmail.com (Faisal Hasan) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 03:14:29 +0600 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: References: <1347915818.61887.BPMail_low_noncarrier@web125103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Sala, I agree with you that we can make a statement together. As far as I know Indian government has also blocked YouTube. This is a global Internet Governance issue. With WCIT approaching, Governments will definitely raise this issue. So, if we donot play our parts governments will vote for content filtering. Thanks Faisal On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 3:08 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear Faisal and Imran, > > It is really sad that we are witnessing this volatile conflict all because > of the polarisation of Article 19 of the ICCPR. If people think that it we > should make a statement in relation to what is happening, let us know. We > can develop a statement. > > Sala > > On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 9:03 AM, Imran Ahmed Shah wrote: > >> >> Youtube was first blocked by Afghanistan and today Government of Pakistan >> also blocked its access in protest. Prime Minister asked to block youtube >> access until youtube remove anti-Islam contents/videos. >> >> Pakistan Telecommunication Authority also blocked about 700+ websites >> yesterday to follow the Supreme Court Orders. >> >> Regards >> >> Imran Ahmed Shah >> for IGFPAK >> ------------------------------ >> On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 1:19 AM PKT Faisal Hasan wrote: >> >> >Dear all, >> > >> >Bangladesh govt. blocks youTube from today in order to avoid impending >> >violence. This is a serious concern for us who advocate that "content >> >filtering is not a solution rather it should be removed at the source." >> We >> >understand that this is an issue of "freedom of expression" and due to >> the >> >corresponding legislation Google is not being able to remove it. >> > >> >On behalf of the Internet Society Bangladesh Dhaka Chapter may I request >> >chapter delegates and people concerned with Internet governance issues >> to >> >think about ways how we can address this sort of issues in future. There >> >should be a global consensus about the content that fuels deadly >> violence >> >shouldn't be hosted by anybody, content that has been flagged by >> thousands >> >of people should be removed, content about which one third of the worlds >> >population has unequivocal objection can definitely set aside from other >> >contents. >> > >> >I guess most of you will agree that this is a very sensitive issue and >> >Muslims around the world are deeply shocked by the violence thats being >> >erupting all over the world killing innocent lives as well as by the >> fact >> >that the content still stays at the source. >> > >> >Kind Regards >> >Faisal Hasan, PhD >> >Chapter President >> >Internet Society Bangladesh Dhaka Chapter >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From cveraq at gmail.com Mon Sep 17 18:09:15 2012 From: cveraq at gmail.com (Carlos Vera Quintana) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 17:09:15 -0500 Subject: [governance] Re: [Chapter-delegates] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43C3D59D-AF9D-4CC4-B7AA-91E09D381368@gmail.com> I totally agree with this position. For less google block or delete content and in this situation they can not wait for more blod and violence Carlos Vera Enviado desde mi iPhone El 17/09/2012, a las 15:19, Faisal Hasan escribió: > Dear all, > > Bangladesh govt. blocks youTube from today in order to avoid impending violence. This is a serious concern for us who advocate that "content filtering is not a solution rather it should be removed at the source." We understand that this is an issue of "freedom of expression" and due to the corresponding legislation Google is not being able to remove it. > > On behalf of the Internet Society Bangladesh Dhaka Chapter may I request chapter delegates and people concerned with Internet governance issues to think about ways how we can address this sort of issues in future. There should be a global consensus about the content that fuels deadly violence shouldn't be hosted by anybody, content that has been flagged by thousands of people should be removed, content about which one third of the worlds population has unequivocal objection can definitely set aside from other contents. > > I guess most of you will agree that this is a very sensitive issue and Muslims around the world are deeply shocked by the violence thats being erupting all over the world killing innocent lives as well as by the fact that the content still stays at the source. > > Kind Regards > Faisal Hasan, PhD > Chapter President > Internet Society Bangladesh Dhaka Chapter > > _______________________________________________ > As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed > to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society > Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Mon Sep 17 18:22:13 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 10:22:13 +1200 Subject: [governance] Re: [Chapter-delegates] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: <43C3D59D-AF9D-4CC4-B7AA-91E09D381368@gmail.com> References: <43C3D59D-AF9D-4CC4-B7AA-91E09D381368@gmail.com> Message-ID: The reality is that both these Governments and Google are struggling with answering what is a very "Sensitive issue". For Google, they would have to consider the ramifications of when it is acceptable to take down a certain content from a policy perspective. For eg. they can view their role as a "neutral service provider" which means they merely host content and they are not political, religious etc. Their challenge (or difficulty) would be determining whether removing this content off You Tube would create a precedent for others who could say that they or their communities were enraged at "various types of content", making this a "policy and enforcement" nightmare. For Governments, they have numerous duties to the people depending on their various Constitutions and one of this roles is to ensure that there is some acceptable levels of "peace and order". Anything threatening national security, public morality is something that they are generally mandated to watch out for. Then there are those who may be suffering from the impact and effect of both the decisions. There there is us, spectators. It makes me think about the potential that various civil society groups in these areas to generate discussions, dialogue and debate about this "conflict" and discuss holistically. What should the solution be? On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 10:09 AM, Carlos Vera Quintana wrote: > I totally agree with this position. For less google block or delete > content and in this situation they can not wait for more blod and violence > > Carlos Vera > > Enviado desde mi iPhone > > El 17/09/2012, a las 15:19, Faisal Hasan escribió: > > > Dear all, > > > > Bangladesh govt. blocks youTube from today in order to avoid impending > violence. This is a serious concern for us who advocate that "content > filtering is not a solution rather it should be removed at the source." We > understand that this is an issue of "freedom of expression" and due to the > corresponding legislation Google is not being able to remove it. > > > > On behalf of the Internet Society Bangladesh Dhaka Chapter may I request > chapter delegates and people concerned with Internet governance issues to > think about ways how we can address this sort of issues in future. There > should be a global consensus about the content that fuels deadly violence > shouldn't be hosted by anybody, content that has been flagged by thousands > of people should be removed, content about which one third of the worlds > population has unequivocal objection can definitely set aside from other > contents. > > > > I guess most of you will agree that this is a very sensitive issue and > Muslims around the world are deeply shocked by the violence thats being > erupting all over the world killing innocent lives as well as by the fact > that the content still stays at the source. > > > > Kind Regards > > Faisal Hasan, PhD > > Chapter President > > Internet Society Bangladesh Dhaka Chapter > > > > _______________________________________________ > > As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed > > to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society > > Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ivarhartmann at gmail.com Mon Sep 17 18:27:38 2012 From: ivarhartmann at gmail.com (Ivar A. M. Hartmann) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 19:27:38 -0300 Subject: [governance] Re: [Chapter-delegates] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: References: <43C3D59D-AF9D-4CC4-B7AA-91E09D381368@gmail.com> Message-ID: In all fairness, Google has already considered the ramifications of tampering with a "neutral" platform in order to remove content that it deems inappropriate. It removes allegedly-copyright-infringing content from autocomplete in the search engine and from Youtube without having to legally do so under the DMCA. They have already created the precedent. Now all they have ahead of them is the slippery slope. Ivar On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 7:22 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > The reality is that both these Governments and Google are struggling with > answering what is a very "Sensitive issue". > > For Google, they would have to consider the ramifications of when it is > acceptable to take down a certain content from a policy perspective. For > eg. they can view their role as a "neutral service provider" which means > they merely host content and they are not political, religious etc. Their > challenge (or difficulty) would be determining whether removing this > content off You Tube would create a precedent for others who could say that > they or their communities were enraged at "various types of content", > making this a "policy and enforcement" nightmare. > > For Governments, they have numerous duties to the people depending on > their various Constitutions and one of this roles is to ensure that there > is some acceptable levels of "peace and order". Anything threatening > national security, public morality is something that they are generally > mandated to watch out for. > > Then there are those who may be suffering from the impact and effect of > both the decisions. There there is us, spectators. It makes me think about > the potential that various civil society groups in these areas to generate > discussions, dialogue and debate about this "conflict" and discuss > holistically. > > What should the solution be? > > > > On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 10:09 AM, Carlos Vera Quintana wrote: > >> I totally agree with this position. For less google block or delete >> content and in this situation they can not wait for more blod and violence >> >> Carlos Vera >> >> Enviado desde mi iPhone >> >> El 17/09/2012, a las 15:19, Faisal Hasan escribió: >> >> > Dear all, >> > >> > Bangladesh govt. blocks youTube from today in order to avoid impending >> violence. This is a serious concern for us who advocate that "content >> filtering is not a solution rather it should be removed at the source." We >> understand that this is an issue of "freedom of expression" and due to the >> corresponding legislation Google is not being able to remove it. >> > >> > On behalf of the Internet Society Bangladesh Dhaka Chapter may I >> request chapter delegates and people concerned with Internet governance >> issues to think about ways how we can address this sort of issues in >> future. There should be a global consensus about the content that fuels >> deadly violence shouldn't be hosted by anybody, content that has been >> flagged by thousands of people should be removed, content about which one >> third of the worlds population has unequivocal objection can definitely set >> aside from other contents. >> > >> > I guess most of you will agree that this is a very sensitive issue and >> Muslims around the world are deeply shocked by the violence thats being >> erupting all over the world killing innocent lives as well as by the fact >> that the content still stays at the source. >> > >> > Kind Regards >> > Faisal Hasan, PhD >> > Chapter President >> > Internet Society Bangladesh Dhaka Chapter >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed >> > to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society >> > Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Mon Sep 17 18:56:22 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 10:56:22 +1200 Subject: [governance] IPv4, R.I.P.: Europe hits old internet address limits In-Reply-To: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B138A6C@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> References: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B138739@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B138888@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> <359E2F5D-EA54-4C2D-A11A-7C55B5A07183@ella.com> <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B138A6C@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: > > Though I am still predicting the 20 billion things on the net by 2020, per > Cisco, will outvote us humans in making the call. (I haven't seen any > polling numbers on the things preferences just yet, to back that hunch up > just yet, I admit. ; : ) > This was released on October 2011 last year: "The GSMA with the support of AT&T, Deutsche Bank, KT, Telenor Connexion and Vodafone, and in partnership with Machina Research, today released research that outlines the market opportunity and revenue potential for connected devices. The research shows that the number of total connected devices(1) is expected to increase from approximately 9 billion today to more than 24 billion in 2020, and within that, mobile connected devices(2) will grow 100 per cent from more than 6 billion today to 12 billion in 2020. This explosive growth will support an addressable revenue opportunity for mobile operators of nearly US$1.2 trillion(3) by 2020, a sevenfold increase from expected revenues in 2011, and will also provide significant growth potential for the entire ecosystem." To read more, visit: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/gsma-announces-that-the-proliferation-of-connected-devices-will-create-a-us12-trillion-revenue-opportunity-for-mobile-operators-by-2020-131484733.html > > Lee > ------------------------------ > *From:* governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [ > governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] on behalf of Salanieta T. > Tamanikaiwaimaro [salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com] > *Sent:* Monday, September 17, 2012 4:43 PM > *To:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Avri Doria > > *Subject:* Re: [governance] IPv4, R.I.P.: Europe hits old internet > address limits > > > > On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 7:30 AM, Avri Doria wrote: > >> >> On 17 Sep 2012, at 08:42, Lee W McKnight wrote: >> >> > Therefore, my forecast is for a heterogeneous messy mish-mash of IPv4 >> and IPv6 networks interconnected at lots of dual-stack points; with legacy >> IPv4 and NATs living on for quite some time. >> > >> > Until...that tipping point. >> >> >> Hopefully by that tipping point there will be a better solution that >> integrates v4 and v6 and fixes the routing. >> >> Also are we sure the v6 will be the address of choice for IoT? I >> understand that is not yet a given. >> > > That is indeed an interesting question about whether v6 will be an > address of choice for the Internet of Things. I was wondering whether the > same can be said for gTLDs and their future in light of dotless domains. > >> >> >> avri >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From saper at saper.info Mon Sep 17 19:00:21 2012 From: saper at saper.info (Marcin Cieslak) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 23:00:21 +0000 Subject: [governance] Re: [Chapter-delegates] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube - Sam Bacile videos? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Sep 2012, Faisal Hasan wrote: > On behalf of the Internet Society Bangladesh Dhaka Chapter may I request > chapter delegates and people concerned with Internet governance issues to > think about ways how we can address this sort of issues in future. Dear Faisal, I think we have this discussion pretty much everywhere now. But first to take a position we need to gather some facts. Here are some questions to you: Are you relating to the so-called "Sam Bacile" videos posted on YouTube (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innocence_of_Muslims)? If yes, I would be grateful for more information especially from the Muslim countries about how those relatively obscure videos (posted in June) started to generate such a turmoil. Here's what English Wikipedia says about the proliferation of the video: By September, the film been dubbed into Arabic and was brought to the attention of the Arabic-speaking world by Coptic blogger Morris Sadek, whose Egyptian citizenship had been revoked for promoting calls for an attack on Egypt.[63][64] A two-minute excerpt dubbed in Arabic was broadcast on September 8 by Sheikh Khalad Abdalla[65] on Al-Nas, an Egyptian television station,[10][66] On September 11, "Sam Bacile" YouTube account commented in Egyptian Arabic on a video from Al-Nahar TV uploaded 2 days earlier "يابهايم دة فيلم امريكي 100%" which means: "Idiots, this is an American film 100%".[67] Can anyone confirm the above? Does anyone have links to the Arabic version of those videos? I am interested (among others) in number of views and comments. Does anyone have an access to the alleged full version of the movie? Or is the whole discussion only about those two 14 minute pieces? One of the German influential politicians on internal affairs, Mr Dieter Wiefelspütz, commented today that "foreign policy reasons are not enough to compromise constitutional values". Marcin Cieślak Internet Society Poland -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From Guru at ITforChange.net Tue Sep 18 02:34:24 2012 From: Guru at ITforChange.net (=?UTF-8?B?R3VydSDgpJfgpYHgpLDgpYE=?=) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 12:04:24 +0530 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: References: <1347915818.61887.BPMail_low_noncarrier@web125103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <505815F0.2040409@ITforChange.net> On Tuesday 18 September 2012 02:44 AM, Faisal Hasan wrote: > Dear Sala, > > I agree with you that we can make a statement together. As far as I > know Indian government has also blocked YouTube. No, Youtube is not blocked in India, but there is news that Google has blocked access to the film from India http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/384478/20120914/innocence-muslims-youtube-block-take-down.htm > This is a global Internet Governance issue. With WCIT approaching, > Governments will definitely raise this issue. So, if we donot play our > parts governments will vote for content filtering. > > Thanks > Faisal > > On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 3:08 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro > > wrote: > > Dear Faisal and Imran, > > It is really sad that we are witnessing this volatile conflict all > because of the polarisation of Article 19 of the ICCPR. If people > think that it we should make a statement in relation to what is > happening, let us know. We can develop a statement. > > Sala > > On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 9:03 AM, Imran Ahmed Shah > > wrote: > > > Youtube was first blocked by Afghanistan and today Government > of Pakistan also blocked its access in protest. Prime Minister > asked to block youtube access until youtube remove anti-Islam > contents/videos. > > Pakistan Telecommunication Authority also blocked about 700+ > websites yesterday to follow the Supreme Court Orders. > > Regards > > Imran Ahmed Shah > for IGFPAK > ------------------------------ > On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 1:19 AM PKT Faisal Hasan wrote: > > >Dear all, > > > >Bangladesh govt. blocks youTube from today in order to avoid > impending > >violence. This is a serious concern for us who advocate that > "content > >filtering is not a solution rather it should be removed at > the source." We > >understand that this is an issue of "freedom of expression" > and due to the > >corresponding legislation Google is not being able to remove it. > > > >On behalf of the Internet Society Bangladesh Dhaka Chapter > may I request > >chapter delegates and people concerned with Internet > governance issues to > >think about ways how we can address this sort of issues in > future. There > >should be a global consensus about the content that fuels > deadly violence > >shouldn't be hosted by anybody, content that has been > flagged by thousands > >of people should be removed, content about which one third > of the worlds > >population has unequivocal objection can definitely set > aside from other > >contents. > > > >I guess most of you will agree that this is a very sensitive > issue and > >Muslims around the world are deeply shocked by the violence > thats being > >erupting all over the world killing innocent lives as well > as by the fact > >that the content still stays at the source. > > > >Kind Regards > >Faisal Hasan, PhD > >Chapter President > >Internet Society Bangladesh Dhaka Chapter > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 02:38:54 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 18:38:54 +1200 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: <505815F0.2040409@ITforChange.net> References: <1347915818.61887.BPMail_low_noncarrier@web125103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <505815F0.2040409@ITforChange.net> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 6:34 PM, Guru गुरु wrote: > On Tuesday 18 September 2012 02:44 AM, Faisal Hasan wrote: > > Dear Sala, > > I agree with you that we can make a statement together. As far as I know > Indian government has also blocked YouTube. > > > No, Youtube is not blocked in India, > > but there is news that Google has blocked access to the film from India > > http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/384478/20120914/innocence-muslims-youtube-block-take-down.htm > > I wonder if this has anything to do with Vinay Rai's prior petitions in > the courts in New Delhi, does anyone have an update on that matter? > > This is a global Internet Governance issue. With WCIT approaching, > Governments will definitely raise this issue. So, if we donot play our > parts governments will vote for content filtering. > > Thanks > Faisal > > On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 3:08 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < > salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Dear Faisal and Imran, >> >> It is really sad that we are witnessing this volatile conflict all >> because of the polarisation of Article 19 of the ICCPR. If people think >> that it we should make a statement in relation to what is happening, let us >> know. We can develop a statement. >> >> Sala >> >> On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 9:03 AM, Imran Ahmed Shah wrote: >> >>> >>> Youtube was first blocked by Afghanistan and today Government of >>> Pakistan also blocked its access in protest. Prime Minister asked to block >>> youtube access until youtube remove anti-Islam contents/videos. >>> >>> Pakistan Telecommunication Authority also blocked about 700+ websites >>> yesterday to follow the Supreme Court Orders. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Imran Ahmed Shah >>> for IGFPAK >>> ------------------------------ >>> On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 1:19 AM PKT Faisal Hasan wrote: >>> >>> >Dear all, >>> > >>> >Bangladesh govt. blocks youTube from today in order to avoid impending >>> >violence. This is a serious concern for us who advocate that "content >>> >filtering is not a solution rather it should be removed at the >>> source." We >>> >understand that this is an issue of "freedom of expression" and due to >>> the >>> >corresponding legislation Google is not being able to remove it. >>> > >>> >On behalf of the Internet Society Bangladesh Dhaka Chapter may I >>> request >>> >chapter delegates and people concerned with Internet governance issues >>> to >>> >think about ways how we can address this sort of issues in future. >>> There >>> >should be a global consensus about the content that fuels deadly >>> violence >>> >shouldn't be hosted by anybody, content that has been flagged by >>> thousands >>> >of people should be removed, content about which one third of the >>> worlds >>> >population has unequivocal objection can definitely set aside from >>> other >>> >contents. >>> > >>> >I guess most of you will agree that this is a very sensitive issue and >>> >Muslims around the world are deeply shocked by the violence thats being >>> >erupting all over the world killing innocent lives as well as by the >>> fact >>> >that the content still stays at the source. >>> > >>> >Kind Regards >>> >Faisal Hasan, PhD >>> >Chapter President >>> >Internet Society Bangladesh Dhaka Chapter >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >>> To be removed from the list, visit: >>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >>> >>> For all other list information and functions, see: >>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >>> >>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala >> P.O. Box 17862 >> Suva >> Fiji >> >> Twitter: @SalanietaT >> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro >> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 >> >> >> >> >> > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 02:40:58 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 09:40:58 +0300 Subject: [governance] America's new cyber attacks on Middle East Message-ID: <5058177A.3020400@gmail.com> America's new cyber attacks on Middle East Reuters Tuesday 18 September 2012 Researchers have found evidence suggesting the United States may have developed three previously unknown computer viruses for use in cyber warfare. Anti-virus software makers Symantec of the US and Kaspersky Lab of Russia say about a dozen computers in Iran and Lebanon are infected. The researchers say the malware fits the profile of military operations. The US has already been linked to the Stuxnet Trojan that attacked Iran's nuclear programme in 2010 and the Flame cyber surveillance tool that was uncovered in May. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ias_pk at yahoo.com Tue Sep 18 03:07:16 2012 From: ias_pk at yahoo.com (Imran Ahmed Shah) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 00:07:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: References: <1347915818.61887.BPMail_low_noncarrier@web125103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1347952036.74845.YahooMailNeo@web125102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Sala, I am strongly agreed with you for the development of a statement, however, that would elaborate the conflict and abuse of the FoE Rights, and would ask for the immediate removal of such offensive type of contents that violate religious norms, values, morality, believe and ethics. International legislation (treaty)  restrict the hosting and/or distribution of such type of contents prohibiting blasphemy and if the contents are not removed by the hosting company, the removal & banning the entire website should be the responsibility of the Registry. India and Malaysia already has signed agreements with Google for the removal of ‘offensive’ contents. Regards Imran Ahmed Shah [imran at IGFPAK.org] >________________________________ > From: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro >To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Imran Ahmed Shah >Cc: hasansf at gmail.com; chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org >Sent: Tuesday, 18 September 2012, 2:08 >Subject: Re: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube > > >Dear Faisal and Imran, > > >It is really sad that we are witnessing this volatile conflict all because of the polarisation of Article 19 of the ICCPR. If people think that it we should make a statement in relation to what is happening, let us know. We can develop a statement.  > > >Sala > > > >On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 9:03 AM, Imran Ahmed Shah wrote: > > >>Youtube was first blocked by Afghanistan and today Government of Pakistan also blocked its access in protest. Prime Minister asked to block youtube access until youtube remove anti-Islam contents/videos. >> >>Pakistan Telecommunication Authority also blocked about 700+ websites yesterday to follow the Supreme Court Orders. >> >>Regards >> >>Imran Ahmed Shah >>for IGFPAK >>------------------------------ >> >> On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 1:19 AM PKT Faisal Hasan wrote: >> >> >Dear all, >> > >> >Bangladesh govt. blocks youTube from today in order to avoid impending >> >violence. This is a serious concern for us who advocate that "content >> >filtering is not a solution rather it should be removed at the source." We >> >understand that this is an issue of "freedom of expression" and due to the >> >corresponding legislation Google is not being able to remove it. >> > >> >On behalf of the Internet Society Bangladesh Dhaka Chapter may I request >> >chapter delegates and people concerned with Internet governance issues to >> >think about ways how we can address this sort of issues in future. There >> >should be a global consensus about the content that fuels deadly violence >> >shouldn't be hosted by anybody, content that has been flagged by thousands >> >of people should be removed, content about which one third of the worlds >> >population has unequivocal objection can definitely set aside from other >> >contents. >> > >> >I guess most of you will agree that this is a very sensitive issue and >> >Muslims around the world are deeply shocked by the violence thats being >> >erupting all over the world killing innocent lives as well as by the fact >> >that the content still stays at the source. >> > >> >Kind Regards >> >Faisal Hasan, PhD >> >Chapter President >> >Internet Society Bangladesh Dhaka Chapter >> >> >>____________________________________________________________ >>You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org >>To be removed from the list, visit: >>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >>For all other list information and functions, see: >>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>     http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >>Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > > >-- > >Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala >P.O. Box 17862 >Suva >Fiji > > >Twitter: @SalanietaT >Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro >Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ias_pk at yahoo.com Tue Sep 18 03:22:54 2012 From: ias_pk at yahoo.com (Imran Ahmed Shah) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 00:22:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [governance] Re: [Chapter-delegates] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube - Sam Bacile videos? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1347952974.84646.YahooMailNeo@web125102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Marcin Cieślak, I strongly condemn to start any discussion about the contents on this forum mailing list, because discussing about the abuse and offensive contents will serve the negative purpose of the producer of this contents/movie.   Thanks   Imran >________________________________ > From: Marcin Cieslak >To: Faisal Hasan >Cc: Chapter Delegates ; governance at lists.igcaucus.org >Sent: Tuesday, 18 September 2012, 4:00 >Subject: [governance] Re: [Chapter-delegates] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube - Sam Bacile videos? > >On Tue, 18 Sep 2012, Faisal Hasan wrote: > >> On behalf of the Internet Society Bangladesh Dhaka Chapter may I request >> chapter delegates and people concerned with Internet governance issues to >> think about ways how we can address this sort of issues in future. > >Dear Faisal, > >I think we have this discussion pretty much everywhere now. > >But first to take a position we need to gather some facts. >Here are some questions to you: > >Are you relating to the so-called "Sam Bacile" videos >posted on YouTube (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innocence_of_Muslims)? > >If yes, I would be grateful for more information especially from >the Muslim countries about how those relatively obscure videos >(posted in June) started to generate such a turmoil. > >Here's what English Wikipedia says about the proliferation >of the video: > >  By September, the film been dubbed into >  Arabic and was brought to the attention >  of the Arabic-speaking world by Coptic >  blogger Morris Sadek, whose Egyptian >  citizenship had been revoked for promoting >  calls for an attack on Egypt.[63][64] >  A two-minute excerpt dubbed in Arabic >  was broadcast on September 8 by Sheikh >  Khalad Abdalla[65] on Al-Nas, an Egyptian >  television station,[10][66] On September >  11, "Sam Bacile" YouTube account commented >  in Egyptian Arabic on a video from >  Al-Nahar TV uploaded 2 days earlier >  "يابهايم دة فيلم امريكي >  100%" which means: "Idiots, this is an >  American film 100%".[67] > >Can anyone confirm the above? > >Does anyone have links to the Arabic version >of those videos? I am interested (among >others) in number of views and comments. > >Does anyone have an access to the alleged >full version of the movie? Or is the whole >discussion only about those two 14 minute >pieces? > > >One of the German influential politicians >on internal affairs, Mr Dieter Wiefelspütz, >commented today that "foreign policy reasons >are not enough to compromise constitutional >values". > >Marcin Cieślak >Internet Society Poland > > >____________________________________________________________ >You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >    governance at lists.igcaucus.org >To be removed from the list, visit: >    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > >For all other list information and functions, see: >    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >    http://www.igcaucus.org/ > >Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From tapani.tarvainen at effi.org Tue Sep 18 03:32:49 2012 From: tapani.tarvainen at effi.org (Tapani Tarvainen) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 10:32:49 +0300 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: <1347952036.74845.YahooMailNeo@web125102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1347915818.61887.BPMail_low_noncarrier@web125103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1347952036.74845.YahooMailNeo@web125102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20120918073249.GB1326@baribal.tarvainen.info> On Sep 18 00:07, Imran Ahmed Shah (ias_pk at yahoo.com) wrote: > Sala, > I am strongly agreed with you for the development of a statement, > however, that would elaborate the conflict and abuse of the FoE > Rights, and would ask for the immediate removal of such offensive > type of contents that violate religious norms, values, morality, > believe and ethics. I'm not sure I understand what you mean, but the core meaning of Freedom of Expression is the right to offend, and in particular to disparage and ridicule opinions and creeds of any kind, whether political, religious, moral, ethical, whatever. (Exceptions like libel apply to people, individuals, not creeds or opinions.) After all, speech that does not offend anyone does not need protection, does it. And if someone resorts to violence to counter non-violent speech or other expression, the blame falls squarely on the former. No matter what someone says, countering and trying to suppress it with violence is wrong, period. I would strongly disagree with any statement that would support anything like censorship under threat of violence. > International legislation (treaty) restrict the hosting and/or > distribution of such type of contents prohibiting blasphemy and if > the contents are not removed by the hosting company, the removal & > banning the entire website should be the responsibility of the > Registry. I hope there will never be such a treaty of any real force. That would be the end of not only of Freedom of Expression but of Freedom of Religion as well, for there is no way to define blasphemy without selecting a (small) set of religions that'd be specially protected. Indeed, central tenets of many religions are blasphemous to others. -- Tapani Tarvainen -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 03:46:42 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 19:46:42 +1200 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: <20120918073249.GB1326@baribal.tarvainen.info> References: <1347915818.61887.BPMail_low_noncarrier@web125103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1347952036.74845.YahooMailNeo@web125102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <20120918073249.GB1326@baribal.tarvainen.info> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 7:32 PM, Tapani Tarvainen wrote: > On Sep 18 00:07, Imran Ahmed Shah (ias_pk at yahoo.com) wrote: > > > Sala, > > > I am strongly agreed with you for the development of a statement, > > however, that would elaborate the conflict and abuse of the FoE > > Rights, and would ask for the immediate removal of such offensive > > type of contents that violate religious norms, values, morality, > > believe and ethics. > > I'm not sure I understand what you mean, but the core meaning of > Freedom of Expression is the right to offend, and in particular to > disparage and ridicule opinions and creeds of any kind, whether > political, religious, moral, ethical, whatever. > (Exceptions like libel apply to people, individuals, not > creeds or opinions.) > > After all, speech that does not offend anyone does not need > protection, does it. > > At the end of the day, it is up to people to decide whether a statement under the current situation is warranted. However, we had issued a Statement on Freedom of Expression generally during the UN Human Rights Council Meeting on Freedom of Expression which was developed here on the list. > And if someone resorts to violence to counter non-violent > speech or other expression, the blame falls squarely on > the former. No matter what someone says, countering and > trying to suppress it with violence is wrong, period. > > I would strongly disagree with any statement that would > support anything like censorship under threat of violence. > > > International legislation (treaty) restrict the hosting and/or > > distribution of such type of contents prohibiting blasphemy and if > > the contents are not removed by the hosting company, the removal & > > banning the entire website should be the responsibility of the > > Registry. > > I hope there will never be such a treaty of any real force. > That would be the end of not only of Freedom of Expression > but of Freedom of Religion as well, for there is no way > to define blasphemy without selecting a (small) set of > religions that'd be specially protected. > Indeed, central tenets of many religions are blasphemous to others. > > -- > Tapani Tarvainen > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From daniel at digsys.bg Tue Sep 18 04:13:12 2012 From: daniel at digsys.bg (Daniel Kalchev) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 11:13:12 +0300 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: <1347952036.74845.YahooMailNeo@web125102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1347915818.61887.BPMail_low_noncarrier@web125103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1347952036.74845.YahooMailNeo@web125102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <50582D18.2040000@digsys.bg> On 18.09.12 10:07, Imran Ahmed Shah wrote: > Sala, > I am strongly agreed with you for the development of a statement, > however, that would elaborate the conflict and abuse of the FoE > Rights, and would ask for the immediate removal of such offensive type > of contents that violate religious norms, values, morality, believe > and ethics. > International legislation (treaty) restrict the hosting and/or > distribution of such type of contents prohibiting blasphemy and if the > contents are not removed by the hosting company, the removal & banning > the entire website should be the responsibility of the Registry. > India and Malaysia already has signed agreements with Google for the > removal of ‘offensive’ contents. I see few problems with this position: - As Tapani already outlined, responding to anything with violence should not be encouraged (not that it isn't happening all the time and will continue to happen until there are more than two human beings around). - What offends one, might bring joy to others. There are many examples, including religion based. - Removal of an registration, based on someone's desires is not any of TLD Registry's business. Dragging in registries in such debates is not productive. This has already been demonstrated number of times. The content will just move elsewhere. Registries deal with labels, not content. This is like asking the whatever agency to rename an street, because serious crime was committed on that address. - It is absurd that an Government has to sign a contract with a private company (Google) to do mutual favors. This has never ended well for both sides... It also occurs to me, that the various "religious" (*) norms were formed and flourished because it was possible to achieve certain level of isolation and encapsulation of the various groups. Internet broke all this, as there is practically no way to separate yourself from the rest of the Internet, except to disconnect. Daniel (*) It is always for the power grab and exploitation of others, unfortunately. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 03:42:16 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 10:42:16 +0300 Subject: [governance] Facebook and the nipplegate: New Yorker temporarily banned In-Reply-To: References: <5056FF58.9010502@digsys.bg> <50571C14.4080306@digsys.bg> Message-ID: <505825D8.9090505@gmail.com> For me it is important not to conflate issues. It is one thing to have a business model that relies on transparency - this is a virtuous circle. But there is also the issue of business sense being made on "silent" cooperation with govts. In general I am more with Nader's sentiments on these matters... we need to identify if corporations are playing or serving a public interest function... simply leaving things to the market is not enough... that (self-supervision) was tried in the financial sector and even the Oracle Alan Greenspan was "shocked" at the behaviour of the Bankers (Atlas did not quite shrug given the idiotic debates in the run up to the election in the US). Human Rights values need to pervade public interest functions... scale is good for companies, and there ought to be a quid pro quo on rights after a certain point. It is banal to say leave the private sector to its own devices, especially in contexts where they have market dominance (rather than abusing dominant position)... On 2012/09/17 05:02 PM, Ivar A. M. Hartmann wrote: > That's a great example! It had slipped my mind. Thank you for poiting > it out! > > On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 10:56 AM, McTim > wrote: > > > > On Monday, September 17, 2012, Ivar A. M. Hartmann wrote: > > I don't believe Twitter or any other profit-seeking > corporation makes an effort to protect free speech > systematically when it threatens their income. Twitter's > strategy of making content removals visible is a business (PR) > one, not a human rights protection mechanism. > How much transparency is enough transparency is indeed the key > question here. This can't be answered in a simple email, but I > dare say enough transparency is that which enables full > scrutiny of a company or government's actions. > > > > Like this: > > > http://www.google.com/transparencyreport/ > > Rgds, McTim > > > > > > Mct > > > > > > > > Best, > Ivar > > On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 9:48 AM, Daniel Kalchev > wrote: > > The one about Twitter. > > I can understand Twitter claiming transparency, but can't > believe for a moment they are indeed transparent about it > (makes no sense). > > If you are not 100% transparent, because that is simply > not possible, how much is "enough"? > > Daniel > > > On 17.09.12 15:32, Ivar A. M. Hartmann wrote: >> Which of the two statements are you referring to, Daniel? >> >> On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 7:45 AM, Daniel Kalchev >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On 17.09.12 04:17, Ivar A. M. Hartmann wrote: >> >> A jail full of dissidents is evidence of >> repression, but where's the evidence of thousands >> of deleted posts and pictures? Twitter is for the >> most part alone in trying to make content removal >> transparent. >> >> >> Why you believe this is the case? >> >> Daniel >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: >> http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > > > -- > Cheers, > > McTim > "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. > A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 03:54:25 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 10:54:25 +0300 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <505828B1.8080400@gmail.com> I am not so sure I would go for global consensus on issues like this. It is precisely difference that needs to be accommodated. It is one thing for muslims to take umbrage at these matters, quite another to insist on their extra-territoriality. Like others should "tolerate" muslims, muslims need to tolerate the other as well - and here the function of power matters... Like it is fine for France to ban Nazi memorobelia (because of it is history and values) it should be ok for muslim countries to take REASONABLE measures to protect their values in their polity. But global law, I am not so sure... The issue is however more complex than that... with the Rand Corporation and the State Dept funding its version of Islam (so much for separation of state and religion, with the usual Israeli exception in Western discourse), and the retracted "Crusade", the context that muslims find themselves in something else, perhaps much like that of Japanese in the US during WWII. FOE is a precious right, and essential to a meaningful polity, but that does not mean there are no taboos... while egregious insults are certainly contraindicated in many muslim societies there is also a healthy historical tradition of satire and academic (or like critique) of the sacred. With the Western self-righteousness on this issue (notwithstanding double standards i.e. everyone can build any religious house they like, but not muslims in Switzerland for eg) it would be hard to get a reasonable debate with the muslims (first for the west to understand the relationship with the Prophet... and second for the muslims to understand the historical trajectory of Western rights as against the "Church")... Let us also remember that the context of the Rushdie affair cannot be ignored. This was a time when the US, UK and much of EU was clandestinely and openly supporting WMD being used against Iranians. So debarred from context, it is easy to talk about rights. In context, the whole situation is fraught with difficulty... On 2012/09/17 11:19 PM, Faisal Hasan wrote: > Dear all, > > Bangladesh govt. blocks youTube from today in order to avoid impending > violence. This is a serious concern for us who advocate that "content > filtering is not a solution rather it should be removed at the > source." We understand that this is an issue of "freedom of > expression" and due to the corresponding legislation Google is not > being able to remove it. > > On behalf of the Internet Society Bangladesh Dhaka Chapter may I > request chapter delegates and people concerned with Internet > governance issues to think about ways how we can address this sort of > issues in future. There should be a global consensus about the content > that fuels deadly violence shouldn't be hosted by anybody, content > that has been flagged by thousands of people should be removed, > content about which one third of the worlds population has unequivocal > objection can definitely set aside from other contents. > > I guess most of you will agree that this is a very sensitive issue and > Muslims around the world are deeply shocked by the violence thats > being erupting all over the world killing innocent lives as well as by > the fact that the content still stays at the source. > > Kind Regards > Faisal Hasan, PhD > Chapter President > Internet Society Bangladesh Dhaka Chapter > -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From daniel at digsys.bg Tue Sep 18 04:45:48 2012 From: daniel at digsys.bg (Daniel Kalchev) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 11:45:48 +0300 Subject: [governance] Re: [Chapter-delegates] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube - Sam Bacile videos? In-Reply-To: <1347952974.84646.YahooMailNeo@web125102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1347952974.84646.YahooMailNeo@web125102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <505834BC.9020200@digsys.bg> On 18.09.12 10:22, Imran Ahmed Shah wrote: > Marcin Cieślak, > *I strongly condemn to start any discussion about the contents on this > forum mailing list*, because discussing about the abuse and offensive > contents will serve the negative purpose of the producer of this > contents/movie. > I understand your concerns, but we discuss here whether and how to drag ourselves into this case - which might have serious implications for many. Siding with anyone is not the right way to propose policy. We do not know yet who created the havoc and why. Today, our national TV had lengthy discussion on the topic. One thing I heard was, that the movie in question was filmed two years ago. Is this true. If so, why it was reacted on just now? I don't believe anyone is interested to discuss content, but rather circumstances. Daniel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 05:05:57 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 14:35:57 +0530 Subject: [governance] America's new cyber attacks on Middle East In-Reply-To: <5058177A.3020400@gmail.com> References: <5058177A.3020400@gmail.com> Message-ID: That's like the rumour back when they said the US was spreading swine flu because the then Sec. of Def Mr Rumsfield was on Tamiflu's board of directors. It may be hard to conclusively link back to the US. It may be military ops or something else - but does that prove it's America attacking? -C On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 12:10 PM, Riaz K Tayob wrote: > America's new cyber attacks on Middle East > > Reuters > > Tuesday 18 September 2012 > > Researchers have found evidence suggesting the United States may have > developed three previously unknown computer viruses for use in cyber > warfare. > > Anti-virus software makers Symantec of the US and Kaspersky Lab of Russia > say about a dozen computers in Iran and Lebanon are infected. The > researchers say the malware fits the profile of military operations. > > The US has already been linked to the Stuxnet Trojan that attacked Iran's > nuclear programme in 2010 and the Flame cyber surveillance tool that was > uncovered in May. > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 05:09:10 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 21:09:10 +1200 Subject: [Chapter-delegates] [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, we must continue to advocate an open and free internet. On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 9:03 PM, Niel Hirjee wrote: > Dear Faisal bahi, all, > > I can confirm that the Indian Government has not blocked YouTube, either > in its workspaces or for its citizens. We must play our part in keeping the > net open and free and I hope my feedback will contribute towards that end. > > > Dear Sala, > > > I agree with you that we can make a statement > > together. As far as I know Indian government > > has also blocked YouTube. > > This is a global Internet Governance issue. With > > WCIT approaching, Governments will definitely > > raise this issue. So, if we donot play our > > parts governments will vote for content > > filtering. > > > > Thanks > > Faisal > > > > On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 3:08 AM, Salanieta T. > > Tamanikaiwaimaro > > wrote: > > Dear Faisal and Imran, > > > > It is really sad that we are witnessing this > > volatile conflict all because of the > > polarisation of Article 19 of the ICCPR. If > > people think that it we should make a statement > > in relation to what is happening, let us know. > > We can develop a statement. > > > > Sala > > > > > On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 9:03 AM, Imran Ahmed > > Shah wrote: > > > > Youtube was first blocked by Afghanistan and > > today Government of Pakistan also blocked its > > access in protest. Prime Minister asked to > > block youtube access until youtube remove > > anti-Islam contents/videos. > > > > Pakistan Telecommunication Authority also > > blocked about 700+ websites yesterday to follow > > the Supreme Court Orders. > > > > Regards > > > > Imran Ahmed Shah > > for IGFPAK > > ------------------------------ > > > > > On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 1:19 AM PKT Faisal Hasan > > wrote: > > > > >Dear all, > > > > > >Bangladesh govt. blocks youTube from today in > > order to avoid impending > > >violence. This is a serious concern for us > > who advocate that "content > > >filtering is not a solution rather it should > > be removed at the source." We > > >understand that this is an issue of "freedom > > of expression" and due to the > > >corresponding legislation Google is not being > > able to remove it. > > > > > >On behalf of the Internet Society Bangladesh > > Dhaka Chapter may I request > > >chapter delegates and people concerned with > > Internet governance issues to > > >think about ways how we can address this sort > > of issues in future. There > > >should be a global consensus about the > > content that fuels deadly violence > > >shouldn't be hosted by anybody, content that > > has been flagged by thousands > > >of people should be removed, content about > > which one third of the worlds > > >population has unequivocal objection can > > definitely set aside from other > > >contents. > > > > > >I guess most of you will agree that this is a > > very sensitive issue and > > >Muslims around the world are deeply shocked > > by the violence thats being > > >erupting all over the world killing innocent > > lives as well as by the fact > > >that the content still stays at the source. > > > > > >Kind Regards > > >Faisal Hasan, PhD > > >Chapter President > > >Internet Society Bangladesh Dhaka Chapter > > > > > > ________________________________________________ > > ____________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on > > the list: > > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > > To be removed from the list, visit: > > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > > > For all other list information and functions, > > see: > > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's > > charter, see: > > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > > > Translate this email: > > http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > > > > > > -- > > > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > > P.O. Box 17862 > > Suva > > Fiji > > > > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > Niel Hirjee > -- > Calport Technologies - Professional Internet Services > 3 Dover Road, Kolkata 700019, INDIA > +91 (33) 2475-5884 www.calport.com > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 05:36:59 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 18:36:59 +0900 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: While the video was uploaded back in July, it seems that the Arabic translation/dubbing caused all this mess. And while this is not the first time our Prophet Mohammad has been insulted this way, this is the first time it is happening after the Arab spring. Fahd On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 5:19 AM, Faisal Hasan wrote: > Dear all, > > Bangladesh govt. blocks youTube from today in order to avoid impending > violence. This is a serious concern for us who advocate that "content > filtering is not a solution rather it should be removed at the source." We > understand that this is an issue of "freedom of expression" and due to the > corresponding legislation Google is not being able to remove it. > > On behalf of the Internet Society Bangladesh Dhaka Chapter may I request > chapter delegates and people concerned with Internet governance issues to > think about ways how we can address this sort of issues in future. There > should be a global consensus about the content that fuels deadly violence > shouldn't be hosted by anybody, content that has been flagged by thousands > of people should be removed, content about which one third of the worlds > population has unequivocal objection can definitely set aside from other > contents. > > I guess most of you will agree that this is a very sensitive issue and > Muslims around the world are deeply shocked by the violence thats being > erupting all over the world killing innocent lives as well as by the fact > that the content still stays at the source. > > Kind Regards > Faisal Hasan, PhD > Chapter President > Internet Society Bangladesh Dhaka Chapter > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From kabani.asif at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 06:11:16 2012 From: kabani.asif at gmail.com (Kabani) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 15:11:16 +0500 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear All, Firstly, thank to my friends, Faisal, Imran and other from different part of the world to hight this important issues of Internet Governance. Since most of us are already busy with Civil Society and Govt to find a way out of this mess in our countries, created by the Video on Youtube. Submitted here is requested that we theIGC form a Committee that will develop a draft statement and will share with the community and will make it final and disseminate will all the stakeholders, Corp, and Govt, including youtube, FB, UN, Etc. This is a turning point in the History of Man kind that a mass media (internet) is used to create a situation that is creating conflicts among regions, culture, nations. It is reported now that several people are killed, loss of public and private, and Strike and street protest have started in many countries, due to this video upload, These type of Videos if not stop now will lead to extremism and then Wars in the history of Mankind. Facts are available in history in Past. Please we the IGC community of multi culture and multistakeholder must take note of this event of publication of video, and try to keep the internet open and free to everyone. A strong statement of IGC is must. Sincerely Asif Kabani On 18 September 2012 01:19, Faisal Hasan wrote: > Dear all, > > Bangladesh govt. blocks youTube from today in order to avoid impending > violence. This is a serious concern for us who advocate that "content > filtering is not a solution rather it should be removed at the source." We > understand that this is an issue of "freedom of expression" and due to the > corresponding legislation Google is not being able to remove it. > > On behalf of the Internet Society Bangladesh Dhaka Chapter may I request > chapter delegates and people concerned with Internet governance issues to > think about ways how we can address this sort of issues in future. There > should be a global consensus about the content that fuels deadly violence > shouldn't be hosted by anybody, content that has been flagged by thousands > of people should be removed, content about which one third of the worlds > population has unequivocal objection can definitely set aside from other > contents. > > I guess most of you will agree that this is a very sensitive issue and > Muslims around the world are deeply shocked by the violence thats being > erupting all over the world killing innocent lives as well as by the fact > that the content still stays at the source. > > Kind Regards > Faisal Hasan, PhD > Chapter President > Internet Society Bangladesh Dhaka Chapter > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- *Follow me @* * **Before you print think about the** **ENVIRONMENT* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 06:27:57 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 19:27:57 +0900 Subject: [governance] IPv4, R.I.P.: Europe hits old internet address limits In-Reply-To: References: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B138739@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: > > (snip) > > (I always thought it would be the UK or the US at #1; funny they're not > even top 10 > For a country having a v4 pool of IP addresses ~3 times the number of its population, why on earth would they think about IPv6 seriously (taking into account the cost vs. revenue structure it currently possesses for them and the fact that the rest of the world has other more important issues to deal with such as accessing the Internet itself). Fahd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 06:32:51 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 19:32:51 +0900 Subject: [governance] IPv4, R.I.P.: Europe hits old internet address limits In-Reply-To: References: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B138739@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: Walid, I've been asked by my students what is causing this slow shift for the rest > of the world. I tell them that it is a combination of determination by the > ISPs and the costs associated with new equipment, software, and solutions > to maintain a co-existence of both IPv4 and IPv6 (e.g., dual/IP stacking, > tunneling, etc.). > A fact in Jordan is that the government was the first to implement IPv6. Of course, this has nothing to do with the idea that it should be the government of Jordan who initiates such new technologies, but the fact that when we approached some Jordanian ISPs to encourage them to update their networks so that we can go international using IPv6 (rather than tunneling), they used to offer us their current free pool of addresses rather than getting themselves involved. Why? - Additional cost. - Additional work. - Fear of network failure once switching on. - Lack of will to learn and create success stories. - No additional benefits for the technical engineers (bonuses or pay raise) Fahd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From tapani.tarvainen at effi.org Tue Sep 18 08:45:57 2012 From: tapani.tarvainen at effi.org (Tapani Tarvainen) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 15:45:57 +0300 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120918124557.GD30201@baribal.tarvainen.info> On Sep 18 15:11, Kabani (kabani.asif at gmail.com) wrote: > It is reported now that several people are killed, loss of public > and private, and Strike and street protest have started in many > countries, due to this video upload, These type of Videos if not > stop now will lead to extremism and then Wars in the history of > Mankind. If the video distribution is stopped because of threats of violence, it will encourage more violence whenever someone wants to prevent some expression from being distributed or some opinion from being said. It would send the message that violence is an effective way to silence views you don't agree with. Is that the message we want to send? > Please we the IGC community of multi culture and multistakeholder must > take note of this event of publication of video, and try to keep the > internet open and free to everyone. Everyone except those whose views offend ? -- Tapani Tarvainen -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From info at freshmail.de Tue Sep 18 09:14:46 2012 From: info at freshmail.de (Matthias Pfeifer Freshmail) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 15:14:46 +0200 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube References: Message-ID: <915A0BA1B37E4E8792429EA5383E5D98@stateless> Hello Fahd. Can you please go deeper in that translation issue? This would be very interesting i guess. Thank you. Matthias. ----- Original Message ----- From: Fahd A. Batayneh To: IG Caucus Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 11:36 AM Subject: Re: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube While the video was uploaded back in July, it seems that the Arabic translation/dubbing caused all this mess. And while this is not the first time our Prophet Mohammad has been insulted this way, this is the first time it is happening after the Arab spring. Fahd On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 5:19 AM, Faisal Hasan wrote: Dear all, Bangladesh govt. blocks youTube from today in order to avoid impending violence. This is a serious concern for us who advocate that "content filtering is not a solution rather it should be removed at the source." We understand that this is an issue of "freedom of expression" and due to the corresponding legislation Google is not being able to remove it. On behalf of the Internet Society Bangladesh Dhaka Chapter may I request chapter delegates and people concerned with Internet governance issues to think about ways how we can address this sort of issues in future. There should be a global consensus about the content that fuels deadly violence shouldn't be hosted by anybody, content that has been flagged by thousands of people should be removed, content about which one third of the worlds population has unequivocal objection can definitely set aside from other contents. I guess most of you will agree that this is a very sensitive issue and Muslims around the world are deeply shocked by the violence thats being erupting all over the world killing innocent lives as well as by the fact that the content still stays at the source. Kind Regards Faisal Hasan, PhD Chapter President Internet Society Bangladesh Dhaka Chapter ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 09:22:23 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 22:22:23 +0900 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: <915A0BA1B37E4E8792429EA5383E5D98@stateless> References: <915A0BA1B37E4E8792429EA5383E5D98@stateless> Message-ID: Thank you Matthias. ** > (snip) > > Can you please go deeper in that translation issue? This would be very > interesting i guess. > To start with, I did not watch the video. However, I have heard from some friends + read in various sources that the video was translated and dubbed recently, thus causing this flame of rage. It is just that I am trying to connect the recent translation/dubbing to the outrages that followed since not all Muslims are at ease with using English. I am not sure if the translation/dubbing are right though or were done using the right tone (word-by-word translation amongst languages tend to change the meaning of a sentence). Fahd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From hakik at hakik.org Tue Sep 18 10:04:38 2012 From: hakik at hakik.org (Hakikur Rahman) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 15:04:38 +0100 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: References: <915A0BA1B37E4E8792429EA5383E5D98@stateless> Message-ID: At 14:22 18-09-2012, Fahd A. Batayneh wrote: >Thank you Matthias. > >(snip) > >Can you please go deeper in that translation >issue? This would be very interesting i guess. > > >To start with, I did not watch the video. >However, I have heard from some friends + read >in various sources that the video was translated >and dubbed recently, thus causing this flame of >rage. It is just that I am trying to connect the >recent translation/dubbing to the outrages that >followed since not all Muslims are at ease with >using English. I am not sure if the >translation/dubbing are right though or were >done using the right tone (word-by-word >translation amongst languages tend to change the meaning of a sentence). Dear Fahd, I, also did not watch the video. But, agreed about the translation or dubbing issue. Also agree that, sometimes the ´right tone´ as you have mentioned may change due to miss-translation, or misguided interpretation. Like to learn about it more. Best regards, Hakikur >Fahd >____________________________________________________________ >You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org >To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > >For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > >Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 10:16:34 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (riaz.tayob at gmail.com) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 17:16:34 +0300 Subject: [governance] America's new cyber attacks on Middle East In-Reply-To: References: <5058177A.3020400@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5F0935DE-76B0-411B-A1BA-B6CB313C0104@gmail.com> Not necessarily, but Reuters is hardly a conspiracy mag... In any event, where there is this kind of issue it can be likened to bio defence (where bio weapons are banned but preparation for defence is allowed... So just where do you get the dangerous stuff?). The reason for the post is to somewhat counterbalance the foci on poorer countries by assessing the rich countries Ito their internal standards... Which is fair? Or no? ...,... On 18 Sep 2012, at 12:05 PM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar wrote: > That's like the rumour back when they said the US was spreading swine flu because the then Sec. of Def Mr Rumsfield was on Tamiflu's board of directors. It may be hard to conclusively link back to the US. > > It may be military ops or something else - but does that prove it's America attacking? > > -C > > On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 12:10 PM, Riaz K Tayob wrote: > America's new cyber attacks on Middle East > > Reuters > Tuesday 18 September 2012 > > > Researchers have found evidence suggesting the United States may have developed three previously unknown computer viruses for use in cyber warfare. > > Anti-virus software makers Symantec of the US and Kaspersky Lab of Russia say about a dozen computers in Iran and Lebanon are infected. The researchers say the malware fits the profile of military operations. > > The US has already been linked to the Stuxnet Trojan that attacked Iran's nuclear programme in 2010 and the Flame cyber surveillance tool that was uncovered in May. > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 10:23:36 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 23:23:36 +0900 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: References: <915A0BA1B37E4E8792429EA5383E5D98@stateless> Message-ID: BTW, this does not mean that I am with the video and that I am happy at what is going on. It is very upsetting, and what makes things even worst is that Google is doing nothing about it. I believe that respect for every community and religion is an essential requirement of our lives. The holy book of Qur'an mentions (this is a translation from Arabic) "*We created you as nations and tribes to meet and coexist together. The best of you within the eyes of God are those who are faithful*". The Holy book of Qur'an also strongly condemns those who kill innocent people, make negative gestures towards other believes and religions, or take bad about other prophets and messengers. Fahd On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 11:04 PM, Hakikur Rahman wrote: > > At 14:22 18-09-2012, Fahd A. Batayneh wrote: > > Thank you Matthias. > > (snip) > > Can you please go deeper in that translation issue? This would be very > interesting i guess. > > > To start with, I did not watch the video. However, I have heard from some > friends + read in various sources that the video was translated and dubbed > recently, thus causing this flame of rage. It is just that I am trying to > connect the recent translation/dubbing to the outrages that followed since > not all Muslims are at ease with using English. I am not sure if the > translation/dubbing are right though or were done using the right tone > (word-by-word translation amongst languages tend to change the meaning of a > sentence). > > > Dear Fahd, > > I, also did not watch the video. But, agreed about the translation or > dubbing issue. Also agree that, sometimes the ´right tone´ as you have > mentioned may change due to miss-translation, or misguided interpretation. > Like to learn about it more. > > Best regards, > Hakikur > > > > Fahd > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From bavouc at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 10:28:08 2012 From: bavouc at gmail.com (Martial Bavou[Private Business Account]) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 15:28:08 +0100 Subject: [governance] IPA 2013 Message-ID: Africa innovation by Africa people… http://www.lemauricien.com/article/nations-unies-commission-economique-l%E2%80%99afrique-concours-continental-favoriser-l%E2%80%99innovation -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From drc at virtualized.org Tue Sep 18 10:30:02 2012 From: drc at virtualized.org (David Conrad) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 07:30:02 -0700 Subject: [governance] IPv4, R.I.P.: Europe hits old internet address limits In-Reply-To: References: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B138739@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: <4D150CAB-51A4-4187-93E2-109D40699C8A@virtualized.org> On Sep 18, 2012, at 3:27 AM, Fahd A. Batayneh wrote: > For a country having a v4 pool of IP addresses ~3 times the number of its population, why on earth would they think about IPv6 seriously. But they do take it seriously, probably because those IPv4 addresses are already allocated and the ISPs in the US, like ISPs everywhere, wish to continue to grow at minimal cost. In many cases, the challenge is dealing with the installed base of equipment that is not capable of supporting IPv6. When you have 25 million customers (like Comcast does so I hear) and each customer has a $30 piece of equipment that has to be replaced, you might begin to see why end user take up can be a bit slow. Regards, -drc -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From daniel at digsys.bg Tue Sep 18 10:34:00 2012 From: daniel at digsys.bg (Daniel Kalchev) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 17:34:00 +0300 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: References: <915A0BA1B37E4E8792429EA5383E5D98@stateless> Message-ID: <50588658.8020202@digsys.bg> On 18.09.12 17:23, Fahd A. Batayneh wrote: > BTW, this does not mean that I am with the video and that I am happy > at what is going on. It is very upsetting, and what makes things even > worst is that Google is doing nothing about it. I believe Google are just trying to save their business. You can't blame them about this stance. Imagine, you post something, that someone who doesn't agree with you claims is offensive to them. Should Google remove it? Why? > > I believe that respect for every community and religion is an > essential requirement of our lives. The holy book of Qur'an mentions > (this is a translation from Arabic) "*We created you as nations and > tribes to meet and coexist together. The best of you within the eyes > of God are those who are faithful*". The Holy book of Qur'an also > strongly condemns those who kill innocent people, make negative > gestures towards other believes and religions, or take bad about other > prophets and messengers. > This forum is not appropriate for religious propaganda. I happen to live in a country, that was subject to mass extinction for half a millennium because of that same religion. Please. To me such statements are no less offensive than what you claim to be the video to you (which you haven't even seen). You yourself said we should not discuss the contents. This is ok. But let's discuss the circumstances. Who made that translation? In my opinion, those who made the translation are those who seek the present conflict. Daniel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 10:34:56 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 23:34:56 +0900 Subject: [governance] IPv4, R.I.P.: Europe hits old internet address limits In-Reply-To: <4D150CAB-51A4-4187-93E2-109D40699C8A@virtualized.org> References: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B138739@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> <4D150CAB-51A4-4187-93E2-109D40699C8A@virtualized.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 11:30 PM, David Conrad wrote: > (snip) > > But they do take it seriously, probably because those IPv4 addresses are > already allocated and the ISPs in the US, like ISPs everywhere, wish to > continue to grow at minimal cost. In many cases, the challenge is dealing > with the installed base of equipment that is not capable of supporting > IPv6. When you have 25 million customers (like Comcast does so I hear) and > each customer has a $30 piece of equipment that has to be replaced, you > might begin to see why end user take up can be a bit slow. > I would never agree less, but a country having the majority of Tier-1 ISPs should do much better when it comes to IPv6. Fahd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From nhklein at gmx.net Tue Sep 18 10:55:20 2012 From: nhklein at gmx.net (Norbert Klein) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 21:55:20 +0700 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: <915A0BA1B37E4E8792429EA5383E5D98@stateless> References: <915A0BA1B37E4E8792429EA5383E5D98@stateless> Message-ID: <50588B58.6080709@gmx.net> On 9/18/2012 8:14 PM, Matthias Pfeifer Freshmail wrote: > Hello Fahd. > Can you please go deeper in that translation issue? This would be very > interesting i guess. > Thank you. > Matthias. My example is not strictly similar, but also an uproar created by a translation. Some years ago I translated a newspaper article into English in October, which was originally published in Khmer in August. It was a fairly precise description of an alleged case of accepting bribes by a higher level official. I was called to court several times and it took quite some explanation and effort to get me off the hook. What had happened? When the article was published in a newspaper in Khmer, nobody cared, because accusations of corruption were made frequently - and there was a widely held opinion that corruption - payments under the table - are common, and nobody can do much about it anyway. But after my English translation was published, one of the local foreign embassies wanted to know what was going on - and only then the "accused" thought it was time to do some explaining: first of all that I should withdraw what I had published. But it was only a translation... That may mean - for this stupid film - as long as it was in English, it did not catch much attention. But after there was a translated Arab language version, some more people saw what it was - and many others who had not seen it followed those who had seen it in their own language. Norbert Klein nhklein at gmx.net http://www.thinking21.org Phnom Penh/Cambodia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 10:59:15 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 23:59:15 +0900 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: <50588658.8020202@digsys.bg> References: <915A0BA1B37E4E8792429EA5383E5D98@stateless> <50588658.8020202@digsys.bg> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 11:34 PM, Daniel Kalchev wrote: > (snip) > > I believe Google are just trying to save their business. You can't blame > them about this stance. > Saving their business must not be at the cost of any religion or social norm. More, it must not be at the cost of mocking religious figures who changed humanity with their message and beliefs. Would you accept anyone to "save their business" at the cost of depriving you of something that is owned by you? > Imagine, you post something, that someone who doesn't agree with you > claims is offensive to them. Should Google remove it? Why? > I would not wait for Google to remove, I will do it myself. Even better, I would not get myself into such a position by posting content that could offend someone. > This forum is not appropriate for religious propaganda. > I remember last year when the Arab spring erupted, I was watching CNN showing peaceful demonstrations in Jordan as chaotic. The scene was less than 5 seconds, and it did not reflect what was exactly going on. I started receiving e-mails from friends and colleagues overseas that were worried. I told them that nothing is going on and that the media is not showing what is exactly happening. Bottom line, what you call "Religious Propaganda" is more of "The Proper Side of a Story ". The media is not reflecting what is exactly going on. > I happen to live in a country, that was subject to mass extinction for > half a millennium because of that same religion. > Do you mean the Persian empire? Or Andalus (Spain under the Arab rule)? Either ways, historians interpret different timelines of history differently (they have different points of views), and there is no difference regarding Islamic history. Since neither your good self nor myself lived during the "... mass extinction for half a millennium ..." period, none of us are in a state to claim that " ... that same religion" did so. I guess this is not a place to discuss un-proven history, thus - as in your words - "... not a place for * history * propaganda" > Please. To me such statements are no less offensive than what you claim to > be the video to you (which you haven't even seen). > I have not seen the video because when I started watching the first couple of minutes of it, I realized that it is a waste of my time and that those who created it are a bunch of mindless amateurs who are seeking fame. You cannot claim that such statements are offensive since they did not insult you or your believes in any ways. Religions are meant to coexist in much the same way humans coexist. This is called Freedom of Expression. > You yourself said we should not discuss the contents. This is ok. But > let's discuss the circumstances. Who made that translation? In my opinion, > those who made the translation are those who seek the present conflict. > What I was referring to in my discussion is the negative image the religion is further gaining from issues and debates that it has nothing to do with (it all started with 9/11). I would agree though that discussions like these would lead no where, but it is more of an education and exchange of points of view :-) Fahd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 11:01:14 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 00:01:14 +0900 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: <50588B58.6080709@gmx.net> References: <915A0BA1B37E4E8792429EA5383E5D98@stateless> <50588B58.6080709@gmx.net> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 11:55 PM, Norbert Klein wrote: > (snip) > > That may mean - for this stupid film - as long as it was in English, it > did not catch much attention. But after there was a translated Arab > language version, some more people saw what it was - and many others who > had not seen it followed those who had seen it in their own language. > Thank you Norbert, you nailed it down :-) Fahd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From joy at apc.org Tue Sep 18 11:01:40 2012 From: joy at apc.org (Joy Liddicoat) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 17:01:40 +0200 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: <50588B58.6080709@gmx.net> References: <915A0BA1B37E4E8792429EA5383E5D98@stateless> <50588B58.6080709@gmx.net> Message-ID: <1DA6D942-4AEF-45FF-8347-DDCA68CE474A@apc.org> FYI sharing this statement from Bytes For All in Pakistan: http://content.bytesforall.pk/node/69 Joy Liddicoat Sent from my phone On 18/09/2012, at 4:55 PM, Norbert Klein wrote: > On 9/18/2012 8:14 PM, Matthias Pfeifer Freshmail wrote: >> Hello Fahd. >> >> Can you please go deeper in that translation issue? This would be very interesting i guess. >> >> Thank you. >> >> Matthias. > > My example is not strictly similar, but also an uproar created by a translation. > > Some years ago I translated a newspaper article into English in October, which was originally published in Khmer in August. It was a fairly precise description of an alleged case of accepting bribes by a higher level official. > > I was called to court several times and it took quite some explanation and effort to get me off the hook. What had happened? > > When the article was published in a newspaper in Khmer, nobody cared, because accusations of corruption were made frequently - and there was a widely held opinion that corruption - payments under the table - are common, and nobody can do much about it anyway. > > But after my English translation was published, one of the local foreign embassies wanted to know what was going on - and only then the "accused" thought it was time to do some explaining: first of all that I should withdraw what I had published. But it was only a translation... > > That may mean - for this stupid film - as long as it was in English, it did not catch much attention. But after there was a translated Arab language version, some more people saw what it was - and many others who had not seen it followed those who had seen it in their own language. > > > Norbert Klein > nhklein at gmx.net > http://www.thinking21.org > Phnom Penh/Cambodia > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From kabani.asif at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 11:13:06 2012 From: kabani.asif at gmail.com (Kabani) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 20:13:06 +0500 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: <20120918124557.GD30201@baribal.tarvainen.info> References: <20120918124557.GD30201@baribal.tarvainen.info> Message-ID: Dear Tapani, Thanks for the input, Do you think that this type of video should be post on the Internet? (Yes/No) Do you want more people to make more videos like this one on all other regions and cultures of the world? In context of Freedom of Expression. We as community need to prevent these type of act, used in name freedom of expression, Violence in any form is not acceptable on street or through any means including internet. The Internet must remain natural and should not support any one , and we must respect everyone human rights. Pl. dont mis-lead the group, lets keep the discussion in neutral way, and stay focus on topic. Thanks & Regards On 18 September 2012 17:45, Tapani Tarvainen wrote: > On Sep 18 15:11, Kabani (kabani.asif at gmail.com) wrote: > > > It is reported now that several people are killed, loss of public > > and private, and Strike and street protest have started in many > > countries, due to this video upload, These type of Videos if not > > stop now will lead to extremism and then Wars in the history of > > Mankind. > > If the video distribution is stopped because of threats of violence, > it will encourage more violence whenever someone wants to prevent some > expression from being distributed or some opinion from being said. > > It would send the message that violence is an effective way to > silence views you don't agree with. > > Is that the message we want to send? > > > Please we the IGC community of multi culture and multistakeholder must > > take note of this event of publication of video, and try to keep the > > internet open and free to everyone. > > Everyone except those whose views offend here>? > > -- > Tapani Tarvainen > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- *Follow me @* * **Before you print think about the** **ENVIRONMENT* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From drc at virtualized.org Tue Sep 18 11:14:15 2012 From: drc at virtualized.org (David Conrad) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 08:14:15 -0700 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: <50588658.8020202@digsys.bg> References: <915A0BA1B37E4E8792429EA5383E5D98@stateless> <50588658.8020202@digsys.bg> Message-ID: Daniel, On Sep 18, 2012, at 7:34 AM, Daniel Kalchev wrote: > On 18.09.12 17:23, Fahd A. Batayneh wrote: >> >> BTW, this does not mean that I am with the video and that I am happy at what is going on. It is very upsetting, and what makes things even worst is that Google is doing nothing about it. A quick search suggests that Google has, at the request of the government (or by determination of Google in that country that the video violated the law or Google's terms and conditions), blocked access to the video in India, Libya, Egypt, Indonesia, and Malaysia. > You yourself said we should not discuss the contents. Actually, I believe Imran Ahmed Shah said we should not discuss contents. > Who made that translation? According to news reports, an Egyptian-born "human rights attorney" living in Washington DC by the name of Morris Sadek claims he translated the film, sent it to Egyptian journalists on Sep 6, promoted it on his website, and posted it on social media. According to http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2012/09/egyptian-outrage-peddler-who-sent-anti-islam-youtube-clip-viral/56826/, on Sep 8, Sheik Khaled Abdullah in Egypt broadcast parts of the video in Egypt. Subsequently, (according to that article) youm7.com reported that the 'leader of an Egyptian political party "denounced the production of the film with the participation of vengeful Copts."' > In my opinion, those who made the translation are those who seek the present conflict. Yes. One quote about Mr. Sadek I saw was "He likes to use inflammatory and abrasive language to insult Muslims and Islam. As his actions agitate more the Islamic extremists, some people wonder if he is not in fact working to fulfill their agenda." From my perspective, this appears to have played into the hands of Sheik Khaled Abdullah and political opportunists and spiraled out of control. Regards, -drc -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From daniel at digsys.bg Tue Sep 18 11:36:10 2012 From: daniel at digsys.bg (Daniel Kalchev) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 18:36:10 +0300 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: References: <915A0BA1B37E4E8792429EA5383E5D98@stateless> <50588658.8020202@digsys.bg> Message-ID: <505894EA.3070603@digsys.bg> On 18.09.12 17:59, Fahd A. Batayneh wrote: > On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 11:34 PM, Daniel Kalchev > wrote: > > (snip) > > I believe Google are just trying to save their business. You can't > blame them about this stance. > > > Saving their business must not be at the cost of any religion or > social norm. More, it must not be at the cost of mocking religious > figures who changed humanity with their message and beliefs. Imagine, that daily Google offends the religious beliefs of people they have never, ever heard of. Also imagine, that the beliefs of those who rule Google will likely not match yours or mine. We can claim anything we wish, but as long as we rely on Google for (whatever), we will be frustrated with their decisions, when they do not match ours. In the end, it seems that Google indeed restricted access to that particular video in certain countries. This costs them business. Like any enterprise they need to balance their business interests. > Would you accept anyone to "save their business" at the cost of > depriving you of something that is owned by you? This happens all the day. Every day. I do not know about you, but I have learned to live with this reality and turn it the way I see fit. When someone tries to deprive me of something I believe is mine, I fight back -- one way or another. But I also understand, that from time to time my decisions and actions might be considered the same way by someone else. > Imagine, you post something, that someone who doesn't agree with > you claims is offensive to them. Should Google remove it? Why? > > > I would not wait for Google to remove, I will do it myself. Even > better, I would not get myself into such a position by posting content > that could offend someone. Maybe I wasn't clear. You post something. It offends John Doe. He doesn't know about you. You don't know about him. He knows Google and posts there. You know Google, you see the posting and complain. Google won't intervene. If you are not convinced John Doe is right, would you remove your very own posting? Why? > > I happen to live in a country, that was subject to mass extinction > for half a millennium because of that same religion. > > > Do you mean the Persian empire? Or Andalus (Spain under the Arab rule)? I live in Bulgaria. I know the most typical answer, "it was old times, barbarian tribes, nobody knows now etc, so a different religion". Noticeable part of this country's population still suffers. I have my opinion on this and do not insist it be accepted by everyone. I also have no problem with anyone's religion --- as long as they stay out of my door. About history interpretation: I also lived trough the so called "communist regime" and the today's "democracy" -- this let me observe enough interpretations of history of all kinds -- most of them, pathetic at best. None of this has anything to do with the situation at hand, however. Daniel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 11:49:02 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 21:19:02 +0530 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: <505894EA.3070603@digsys.bg> References: <915A0BA1B37E4E8792429EA5383E5D98@stateless> <50588658.8020202@digsys.bg> <505894EA.3070603@digsys.bg> Message-ID: Further it appears that although news coverage about this (on youtube) isnt blocked, the original video itself is blocked in India. An amazing shift from their "blanket ban" strategy. -C On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 9:06 PM, Daniel Kalchev wrote: > > > On 18.09.12 17:59, Fahd A. Batayneh wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 11:34 PM, Daniel Kalchev wrote: > >> (snip) >> >> I believe Google are just trying to save their business. You can't blame >> them about this stance. >> > > Saving their business must not be at the cost of any religion or social > norm. More, it must not be at the cost of mocking religious figures who > changed humanity with their message and beliefs. > > > Imagine, that daily Google offends the religious beliefs of people they > have never, ever heard of. Also imagine, that the beliefs of those who rule > Google will likely not match yours or mine. > > We can claim anything we wish, but as long as we rely on Google for > (whatever), we will be frustrated with their decisions, when they do not > match ours. > > In the end, it seems that Google indeed restricted access to that > particular video in certain countries. This costs them business. Like any > enterprise they need to balance their business interests. > > > Would you accept anyone to "save their business" at the cost of > depriving you of something that is owned by you? > > > This happens all the day. Every day. I do not know about you, but I have > learned to live with this reality and turn it the way I see fit. When > someone tries to deprive me of something I believe is mine, I fight back -- > one way or another. > But I also understand, that from time to time my decisions and actions > might be considered the same way by someone else. > > > > >> Imagine, you post something, that someone who doesn't agree with you >> claims is offensive to them. Should Google remove it? Why? >> > > I would not wait for Google to remove, I will do it myself. Even better, I > would not get myself into such a position by posting content that could > offend someone. > > > Maybe I wasn't clear. You post something. It offends John Doe. He doesn't > know about you. You don't know about him. He knows Google and posts there. > You know Google, you see the posting and complain. Google won't intervene. > If you are not convinced John Doe is right, would you remove your very own > posting? Why? > > > > I happen to live in a country, that was subject to mass extinction for >> half a millennium because of that same religion. >> > > Do you mean the Persian empire? Or Andalus (Spain under the Arab rule)? > > > I live in Bulgaria. I know the most typical answer, "it was old times, > barbarian tribes, nobody knows now etc, so a different religion". > Noticeable part of this country's population still suffers. I have my > opinion on this and do not insist it be accepted by everyone. I also have > no problem with anyone's religion --- as long as they stay out of my door. > About history interpretation: I also lived trough the so called "communist > regime" and the today's "democracy" -- this let me observe enough > interpretations of history of all kinds -- most of them, pathetic at best. > > None of this has anything to do with the situation at hand, however. > > Daniel > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 16:30:14 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 05:30:14 +0900 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: <505894EA.3070603@digsys.bg> References: <915A0BA1B37E4E8792429EA5383E5D98@stateless> <50588658.8020202@digsys.bg> <505894EA.3070603@digsys.bg> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 12:36 AM, Daniel Kalchev wrote: > > (snip) > > Imagine, that daily Google offends the religious beliefs of people they > have never, ever heard of. Also imagine, that the beliefs of those who rule > Google will likely not match yours or mine. > I agree. But let us not forget that some religions are known to everyone worldwide. Islam, Christianity, Jewish, Buddhism are some of the very well known religions regardless of who follows what religion. When web content tend to abuse a certain religion/nation/region/..., there must be a policy in-hand to re-stabilize things. If the Youtube video was brought down in the first place, we might have not had this discussion in the first place since there would have nothing to discuss. > We can claim anything we wish, but as long as we rely on Google for > (whatever), we will be frustrated with their decisions, when they do not > match ours. > +1 > In the end, it seems that Google indeed restricted access to that > particular video in certain countries. > Yes, upon their request. > This costs them business. Like any enterprise they need to balance their > business interests. > While I agree this is how the business world runs, it should not be at the cost of citizens raging over insulting content. But this - I admit - is the perfect world we all seek for. > Maybe I wasn't clear. You post something. It offends John Doe. He doesn't > know about you. You don't know about him. He knows Google and posts there. > You know Google, you see the posting and complain. Google won't intervene. > If you are not convinced John Doe is right, would you remove your very own > posting? Why? > Well, the discussion was about a well known religion, while I agree that John Doe is someone I do not know. These are two different issues IMO. Thus, I would NEVER post anything that could rage followers of a religion or a certain community, and if I did that unintentionally, I would definitely remove it. As for John Doe... I have never created my own video, so I really do not know what my answer would be. If I was in the business of creating videos of hilarious nature, I might have had my thinking in a different direction :-) I live in Bulgaria. > Of course you do, we are on the Root LGR VIP Working Group :-) > I know the most typical answer, "it was old times, barbarian tribes, > nobody knows now etc, so a different religion". > Not exactly. As I stated in my earlier e-mail, historians can interpret history from the way they see things. Look at the Youtube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtqJhvSydMU&feature=related for a different view that insults no one. Fahd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ocl at gih.com Tue Sep 18 18:05:41 2012 From: ocl at gih.com (Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 00:05:41 +0200 Subject: [governance] IPv4, R.I.P.: Europe hits old internet address limits In-Reply-To: References: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B138739@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: <5058F035.8060208@gih.com> On 18/09/2012 12:27, Fahd A. Batayneh wrote: > > (I always thought it would be the UK or the US at #1; funny > they're not even top 10 > > > For a country having a v4 pool of IP addresses ~3 times the number of > its population, why on earth would they think about IPv6 seriously > (taking into account the cost vs. revenue structure it currently > possesses for them and the fact that the rest of the world has other > more important issues to deal with such as accessing the Internet itself). If you look at the Internet using the current prism, of course there's no real need to move to IPv6. But then consider the day when a whizz kid will invent a killer app that needs native IPv6 to run and that everyone and their dog will want to have. What then? Implementing IPv6 takes time and investment, we all know, and those who will not be ready will be crying about how unfair the Internet is, just like many are crying today... many of whom laughed at the Internet in 1992. Kind regards, Olivier -- Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD http://www.gih.com/ocl.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 19:23:00 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 11:23:00 +1200 Subject: [governance] IGC Principles In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8D2C76C@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> References: <4EB3C3D2.1070801@wzb.eu> <4EBB9481.1000707@itforchange.net> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8D2C725@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8D2C76C@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> Message-ID: The numerous controversies surrounding Internet Governance makes it abundantly and inherently clear of the need for Civil Society to develop Internet Governance Principles. In light of the same, I thought I would pull an email from Wolfgang Kleinwachter on the same. For continued dialogue, even with the IGC as per the email on Brainstorming, an additional Working Group could be added to look into this and it would be great Wolfgang if you could take the lead in developing this and whoever wants to volunteer can indicate their interest Sala On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 9:37 PM, "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" < wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de> wrote: > Thanks Izumi for pushing this forward, > > Indeed, it was one of the outcomes of Nairobi that CS should start to > draft its own set of Internet Governance principles after various groups of > governments have tabled half a dozens "declarations" and the private sector > has formulated its own principles. > > How this could be achieved? Here are some basic ideas how to move forward. > > 1. Where we are and what is on the table: > > a. there is a growing number of intergovernmental initiatives which are > aimed to create a political (soft law) framework of guiding principles for > Internet Governance. > > So far we have at the table > * the OECD Communique (June 2011) with 15 principles (the plan is to > enhance this document into a status of "guidelines"). The OECD has 34 > members > * the Council of Europe Internet Governance Declaration with ten > principles (September 2011). The CoE has 47 members > * the G 8 Deauville Declaration with six principles (May 2011). The G 8 > has eight members. > * the OSCE Tbilissi Declaration (October 2011). The OSCE has 53 members > * the NATO Cybersecurity Principles (draft from May 2011). NATO has 28 > members > > In the UN there are two proposals under consideration by the UNGA (fall > 2011) > * the IBSA proposal for an intergovernmental council for Internet Policy > (India, Brazil, South Africa) > * the "Shanghai Group" proposal for an Internet Code of Conduct (Russia, > China, Uzbekistan, Tadjikistan) > > Additioanlly official policy papers and proposals are tabled by > * the US president in his "US International Strategy for Cyberspace" (May > 2011) and > * the EU Commissioner Nelly Kroes in her "Internet Compact" (June 2011) > * the UK Foreign Minister William Hague in his "London Agenda" (seven > principles in November 2011). > > b. the private sector in the US has also drafted a policy paper which > includes principles for Internet governance (October 2011). The supporters > of the paper include inter alia, the US Council for International Business > (USCIB), the Business Software Alliance (BSA), the Information Technology > Industry Council (ITI), Google, Microsoft, GoDaddy, IBM, Oracle, Visa, > MasterCard and others. > > 2. Outcome of Nairobi > > One of the discussions points on Nairobi was whether we should move > towards a "constitutional moment" in the history of the Internet where all > those initiatives will lead to something like a "Framework of Understanding > for the Governance of the Internet" (FoU-GI), comparable with the > "Universal Declaration of Human Rights" or whether we will move towards a > "patchwork regulation" with inter-institutional competition and individual > "principle picking". > > Another point was that to get a sustainable agreement, the involvement of > all stakeholders in the development and adoption of universally recognized > principles is needed. However, it remained unclear how this > multistakeholder involvement could be organigzed on the practical level. > > So far different intergovernmental projects have different models for > non-govenrmental stakeholder inclusion: > * the OECD has three advisory bodies (including CISAC, representing civil > society). CISAC disagreed with the June Document and it remains open, > whether the planned guidelines will included civil society concerns > * the Council of Europe had included non-governmental representatives in > all stages of the drafting process, however the final decision was made by > the Ministerial Committee for an "intergovernmental declaration". The plan > is now for 2012 to move to a "phase 2" to work on a multistakeholder basis > to get a common understanding among governments and non-governmental > stakeholders probably in form of a new type of document. > * G 8, US, UK and EU pay lip service to the "multistakeholder model" or > the "multistakeholder philosophy" but it remains unclear how to > operationalize this "philosophy" into practical policy projects. > * IBSA proposes the establishment of "advisory groups" for > non-governmental stakeholders which would give advice to the new > intergovernmental body, but the decision making power would remain in the > hands of the 50 governments only. > * the Shanghai proposal ignores the multistakeholder principle. > > 3. What to do in 2012? > > There will be an ongoing discussion on "Internet Governance Principles" on > the global level, including the G8 meeting in the US, the Budapest meeting > of the "London Agenda", the follow up of the OECD and Council of Europe > projects and the follow up of the IBSA and Shanghai proposals. > > It would be very useful that the civil society comes with an own concept > and a set of principles to contribute to this debate and to position itself > for future institutional arrangements which could emerge from this debate. > The IGC alone can certainly not speak on behalf of the whole civil society, > but its history, legitimacy and reputation positions the IGC as the right > place to start the discussion and to coordinate CS activities in this field. > > Here is a proposal how to move forward: > 1. formation of a small working group with the mandate to draft a first > text for open discussion (until February 2012) > 2. organization of a workshop on "CS & Internet Governance Principles" in > connection with the IGF consultations in February 2012 in Geneva > 3. continuation of the work and production of a second draft until May 2012 > 4. organization of a second workshop in connection with the WSIS week and > the IGF consultation in May 2012 in Geneva. > 5. organisation of small workshops in regional IGFs (AsiaPacific, Europe, > Africa, Latin America). > 6. preparation of a third draft for presentation at the 7th IGF in Baku > (September 2012). > 7. Outreach to non-governmental and civil society organisations active in > the field of Internet. > 8. Drafts of the document should be send also to the G 8 meeting, the > Budapest meeting and the 67th UN General Assembly (October 2012). > > Best wishes > > wolfgang > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From apisan at unam.mx Tue Sep 18 19:32:31 2012 From: apisan at unam.mx (Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 23:32:31 +0000 Subject: [governance] IGC Principles In-Reply-To: References: <4EB3C3D2.1070801@wzb.eu> <4EBB9481.1000707@itforchange.net> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8D2C725@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8D2C76C@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>, Message-ID: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D4840113E@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> Sala, can you codify "permanent beta"? show me... I hope Wolfgang is directing some PhD's theses just to poll the contradictions among all of those documents. Yours, Alejandro Pisanty ! !! !!! !!!! NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475 Dr. Alejandro Pisanty UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ________________________________ Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro [salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com] Enviado el: martes, 18 de septiembre de 2012 18:23 Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org Asunto: Re: [governance] IGC Principles The numerous controversies surrounding Internet Governance makes it abundantly and inherently clear of the need for Civil Society to develop Internet Governance Principles. In light of the same, I thought I would pull an email from Wolfgang Kleinwachter on the same. For continued dialogue, even with the IGC as per the email on Brainstorming, an additional Working Group could be added to look into this and it would be great Wolfgang if you could take the lead in developing this and whoever wants to volunteer can indicate their interest Sala On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 9:37 PM, "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" > wrote: Thanks Izumi for pushing this forward, Indeed, it was one of the outcomes of Nairobi that CS should start to draft its own set of Internet Governance principles after various groups of governments have tabled half a dozens "declarations" and the private sector has formulated its own principles. How this could be achieved? Here are some basic ideas how to move forward. 1. Where we are and what is on the table: a. there is a growing number of intergovernmental initiatives which are aimed to create a political (soft law) framework of guiding principles for Internet Governance. So far we have at the table * the OECD Communique (June 2011) with 15 principles (the plan is to enhance this document into a status of "guidelines"). The OECD has 34 members * the Council of Europe Internet Governance Declaration with ten principles (September 2011). The CoE has 47 members * the G 8 Deauville Declaration with six principles (May 2011). The G 8 has eight members. * the OSCE Tbilissi Declaration (October 2011). The OSCE has 53 members * the NATO Cybersecurity Principles (draft from May 2011). NATO has 28 members In the UN there are two proposals under consideration by the UNGA (fall 2011) * the IBSA proposal for an intergovernmental council for Internet Policy (India, Brazil, South Africa) * the "Shanghai Group" proposal for an Internet Code of Conduct (Russia, China, Uzbekistan, Tadjikistan) Additioanlly official policy papers and proposals are tabled by * the US president in his "US International Strategy for Cyberspace" (May 2011) and * the EU Commissioner Nelly Kroes in her "Internet Compact" (June 2011) * the UK Foreign Minister William Hague in his "London Agenda" (seven principles in November 2011). b. the private sector in the US has also drafted a policy paper which includes principles for Internet governance (October 2011). The supporters of the paper include inter alia, the US Council for International Business (USCIB), the Business Software Alliance (BSA), the Information Technology Industry Council (ITI), Google, Microsoft, GoDaddy, IBM, Oracle, Visa, MasterCard and others. 2. Outcome of Nairobi One of the discussions points on Nairobi was whether we should move towards a "constitutional moment" in the history of the Internet where all those initiatives will lead to something like a "Framework of Understanding for the Governance of the Internet" (FoU-GI), comparable with the "Universal Declaration of Human Rights" or whether we will move towards a "patchwork regulation" with inter-institutional competition and individual "principle picking". Another point was that to get a sustainable agreement, the involvement of all stakeholders in the development and adoption of universally recognized principles is needed. However, it remained unclear how this multistakeholder involvement could be organigzed on the practical level. So far different intergovernmental projects have different models for non-govenrmental stakeholder inclusion: * the OECD has three advisory bodies (including CISAC, representing civil society). CISAC disagreed with the June Document and it remains open, whether the planned guidelines will included civil society concerns * the Council of Europe had included non-governmental representatives in all stages of the drafting process, however the final decision was made by the Ministerial Committee for an "intergovernmental declaration". The plan is now for 2012 to move to a "phase 2" to work on a multistakeholder basis to get a common understanding among governments and non-governmental stakeholders probably in form of a new type of document. * G 8, US, UK and EU pay lip service to the "multistakeholder model" or the "multistakeholder philosophy" but it remains unclear how to operationalize this "philosophy" into practical policy projects. * IBSA proposes the establishment of "advisory groups" for non-governmental stakeholders which would give advice to the new intergovernmental body, but the decision making power would remain in the hands of the 50 governments only. * the Shanghai proposal ignores the multistakeholder principle. 3. What to do in 2012? There will be an ongoing discussion on "Internet Governance Principles" on the global level, including the G8 meeting in the US, the Budapest meeting of the "London Agenda", the follow up of the OECD and Council of Europe projects and the follow up of the IBSA and Shanghai proposals. It would be very useful that the civil society comes with an own concept and a set of principles to contribute to this debate and to position itself for future institutional arrangements which could emerge from this debate. The IGC alone can certainly not speak on behalf of the whole civil society, but its history, legitimacy and reputation positions the IGC as the right place to start the discussion and to coordinate CS activities in this field. Here is a proposal how to move forward: 1. formation of a small working group with the mandate to draft a first text for open discussion (until February 2012) 2. organization of a workshop on "CS & Internet Governance Principles" in connection with the IGF consultations in February 2012 in Geneva 3. continuation of the work and production of a second draft until May 2012 4. organization of a second workshop in connection with the WSIS week and the IGF consultation in May 2012 in Geneva. 5. organisation of small workshops in regional IGFs (AsiaPacific, Europe, Africa, Latin America). 6. preparation of a third draft for presentation at the 7th IGF in Baku (September 2012). 7. Outreach to non-governmental and civil society organisations active in the field of Internet. 8. Drafts of the document should be send also to the G 8 meeting, the Budapest meeting and the 67th UN General Assembly (October 2012). Best wishes wolfgang ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 22:15:16 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 07:45:16 +0530 Subject: [governance] IPv4, R.I.P.: Europe hits old internet address limits In-Reply-To: <5058F035.8060208@gih.com> References: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B138739@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> <5058F035.8060208@gih.com> Message-ID: > > "But then consider the day when a whizz kid will invent a killer app that > needs native IPv6 to run and that everyone and their dog will want to have. > What then?" +1 On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 3:35 AM, Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond wrote: > > On 18/09/2012 12:27, Fahd A. Batayneh wrote: > > (I always thought it would be the UK or the US at #1; funny they're not >> even top 10 >> > > For a country having a v4 pool of IP addresses ~3 times the number of its > population, why on earth would they think about IPv6 seriously (taking into > account the cost vs. revenue structure it currently possesses for them and > the fact that the rest of the world has other more important issues to deal > with such as accessing the Internet itself). > > > If you look at the Internet using the current prism, of course there's no > real need to move to IPv6. > But then consider the day when a whizz kid will invent a killer app that > needs native IPv6 to run and that everyone and their dog will want to have. > What then? Implementing IPv6 takes time and investment, we all know, and > those who will not be ready will be crying about how unfair the Internet > is, just like many are crying today... many of whom laughed at the Internet > in 1992. > Kind regards, > > Olivier > > -- > Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhDhttp://www.gih.com/ocl.html > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From tapani.tarvainen at effi.org Wed Sep 19 00:23:57 2012 From: tapani.tarvainen at effi.org (Tapani Tarvainen) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 07:23:57 +0300 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: References: <20120918124557.GD30201@baribal.tarvainen.info> Message-ID: <20120919042357.GA3625@musti> On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 08:13:06PM +0500, Kabani (kabani.asif at gmail.com) wrote: > Dear Tapani, > > Thanks for the input, > > Do you think that this type of video should be post on the Internet? > (Yes/No) > > Do you want more people to make more videos like this one on all other > regions and cultures of the world? In context of Freedom of Expression. I haven't actually seen the video, but it doesn't really matter, I can answer anyway: First, I think it would be better if people wouldn't post such videos. But that applies to a lot of stuff in the Internet, including some I'm sure you consider good and useful. Second, much more important, I think people should *have the right* to post such videos if they want to. It should be up to them, up to each individual, to decide what they want to say, not up to any government to judge whether or not it is true or useful and ban or allow it accordingly. > We as community need to prevent these type of act, used in name freedom of > expression, Violence in any form is not acceptable on street or through any > means including internet. Yet you seem to be supporting the use of violence to suppress this specific case of expression. > The Internet must remain natural and should not support any one , I'm not sure I understand that. > and we must respect everyone human rights. With that I agree 100%. > Pl. dont mis-lead the group, lets keep the discussion in neutral > way, and stay focus on topic. I thought the topic was a possible caucus statement on the censorship of youtube, and I've tried to stick to that. And if it hasn't become clear yet, I would support a statement condemning violence but not one demanding censorship. -- Tapani Tarvainen -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 00:26:38 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 16:26:38 +1200 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: <20120919042357.GA3625@musti> References: <20120918124557.GD30201@baribal.tarvainen.info> <20120919042357.GA3625@musti> Message-ID: > > > > I thought the topic was a possible caucus statement on the censorship > of youtube, and I've tried to stick to that. > And if it hasn't become clear yet, I would support a statement > condemning violence but not one demanding censorship. > @ Tapani there was never any discussion on demanding censorship > > -- > Tapani Tarvainen > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From tapani.tarvainen at effi.org Wed Sep 19 01:47:52 2012 From: tapani.tarvainen at effi.org (Tapani Tarvainen) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 08:47:52 +0300 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: References: <20120918124557.GD30201@baribal.tarvainen.info> <20120919042357.GA3625@musti> Message-ID: <20120919054752.GA3690@baribal.tarvainen.info> On Sep 19 16:26, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro (salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com) wrote: > > I thought the topic was a possible caucus statement on the censorship > > of youtube, and I've tried to stick to that. > > And if it hasn't become clear yet, I would support a statement > > condemning violence but not one demanding censorship. > @ Tapani there was never any discussion on demanding censorship I must have misunderstood some messages, then. My apologies for all concerned. -- Tapani Tarvainen -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 01:52:25 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 17:52:25 +1200 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: <20120919054752.GA3690@baribal.tarvainen.info> References: <20120918124557.GD30201@baribal.tarvainen.info> <20120919042357.GA3625@musti> <20120919054752.GA3690@baribal.tarvainen.info> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 5:47 PM, Tapani Tarvainen wrote: > On Sep 19 16:26, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro ( > salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com) wrote: > > > > I thought the topic was a possible caucus statement on the censorship > > > of youtube, and I've tried to stick to that. > > > And if it hasn't become clear yet, I would support a statement > > > condemning violence but not one demanding censorship. > > > @ Tapani there was never any discussion on demanding censorship > > I must have misunderstood some messages, then. > My apologies for all concerned. > We are all advocates of an open and free internet at least I think we are. Developing a statement will help to give us an opportunity to craft messages about our position in the midst of the turmoil. How we wordsmith would be collaborative but first it has to resonate within the IGC. If the general consensus is not to develop a statement, then we won't. > > -- > Tapani Tarvainen > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 01:59:58 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 11:29:58 +0530 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: References: <20120918124557.GD30201@baribal.tarvainen.info> <20120919042357.GA3625@musti> <20120919054752.GA3690@baribal.tarvainen.info> Message-ID: I think we all agree 1. Freedom of speech is important 2. What is said must be carefully said - if it's likely to hurt the sentiments of the masses ("perceived compliance") something should be done to prevent that hurt sentiment - strongest being censorship (but what other measures could be used? - as Riaz said 'Reasonable' measures) 3. Service providers like youtube (google) that have a large reach and huge client base should consider possible methods to prevent hate/racist/etc messages (measures werent mentioned - we could work on this) 4. Governments need to know there are measures (point 2 & 3) that can be used without opting for censorship - as Faisal said we need to do our part on this or Governments will probably opt for blanket censorship 5. Violence and censorship are not viable solutions - the damage is just too great -C On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 5:47 PM, Tapani Tarvainen < > tapani.tarvainen at effi.org> wrote: > >> On Sep 19 16:26, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro ( >> salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com) wrote: >> >> > > I thought the topic was a possible caucus statement on the censorship >> > > of youtube, and I've tried to stick to that. >> > > And if it hasn't become clear yet, I would support a statement >> > > condemning violence but not one demanding censorship. >> >> > @ Tapani there was never any discussion on demanding censorship >> >> I must have misunderstood some messages, then. >> My apologies for all concerned. >> > > We are all advocates of an open and free internet at least I think we are. > Developing a statement will help to give us an opportunity to craft > messages about our position in the midst of the turmoil. How we wordsmith > would be collaborative but first it has to resonate within the IGC. If the > general consensus is not to develop a statement, then we won't. > >> >> -- >> Tapani Tarvainen >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 02:05:14 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 11:35:14 +0530 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: References: <20120918124557.GD30201@baribal.tarvainen.info> <20120919042357.GA3625@musti> <20120919054752.GA3690@baribal.tarvainen.info> Message-ID: What we could do (before making a statement) - IMHO - is: 1. work out the reasonable measures that should be used to precede/prevent censorship without impeding internet freedom (for governments and other controlling institutions) 2. whether google/etc should be requested to 'process' the content that is uploaded - specially ones with words targeting a particular community/religeon -C On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 11:29 AM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar < chaitanyabd at gmail.com> wrote: > I think we all agree > > 1. Freedom of speech is important > 2. What is said must be carefully said - if it's likely to hurt the > sentiments of the masses ("perceived compliance") something should be done > to prevent that hurt sentiment - strongest being censorship (but what other > measures could be used? - as Riaz said 'Reasonable' measures) > 3. Service providers like youtube (google) that have a large reach and > huge client base should consider possible methods to prevent > hate/racist/etc messages (measures werent mentioned - we could work on this) > 4. Governments need to know there are measures (point 2 & 3) that can be > used without opting for censorship - as Faisal said we need to do our part > on this or Governments will probably opt for blanket censorship > 5. Violence and censorship are not viable solutions - the damage is just > too great > > -C > > On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < > salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 5:47 PM, Tapani Tarvainen < >> tapani.tarvainen at effi.org> wrote: >> >>> On Sep 19 16:26, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro ( >>> salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com) wrote: >>> >>> > > I thought the topic was a possible caucus statement on the censorship >>> > > of youtube, and I've tried to stick to that. >>> > > And if it hasn't become clear yet, I would support a statement >>> > > condemning violence but not one demanding censorship. >>> >>> > @ Tapani there was never any discussion on demanding censorship >>> >>> I must have misunderstood some messages, then. >>> My apologies for all concerned. >>> >> >> We are all advocates of an open and free internet at least I think we >> are. Developing a statement will help to give us an opportunity to craft >> messages about our position in the midst of the turmoil. How we wordsmith >> would be collaborative but first it has to resonate within the IGC. If the >> general consensus is not to develop a statement, then we won't. >> >>> >>> -- >>> Tapani Tarvainen >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >>> To be removed from the list, visit: >>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >>> >>> For all other list information and functions, see: >>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >>> >>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala >> P.O. Box 17862 >> Suva >> Fiji >> >> Twitter: @SalanietaT >> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro >> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 >> >> >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From jeremy at ciroap.org Wed Sep 19 02:08:47 2012 From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 14:08:47 +0800 Subject: [governance] IGC Principles In-Reply-To: References: <4EB3C3D2.1070801@wzb.eu> <4EBB9481.1000707@itforchange.net> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8D2C725@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8D2C76C@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> Message-ID: <5059616F.6050803@ciroap.org> On 19 Sep, 2012, at 7:23 AM, "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" > wrote: > The numerous controversies surrounding Internet Governance makes it > abundantly and inherently clear of the need for Civil Society to > develop Internet Governance Principles. In light of the same, I > thought I would pull an email from Wolfgang Kleinwachter on the same. > > For continued dialogue, even with the IGC as per the email on > Brainstorming, an additional Working Group could be added to look into > this and it would be great Wolfgang if you could take the lead in > developing this and whoever wants to volunteer can indicate their interest There is sort of a working group for this already, as the IG Principles you speak of are one of the output documents planned to be opened for signature at the Best Bits meeting http://igf-online.net/bestbits. Wolfgang had reconfirmed that he would take the lead in developing it through an online working group, though he has been quite busy so the work hasn't progressed far. Meanwhile there has been some discussion on the Best Bits list on whether or not this statement of principles should be merged with the other planned output from Best Bits, which is a statement to WCIT about the ITU's role in Internet governance (if you have a view on that, please feel free to express it either here or on the Best Bits list). This isn't intended to steal any of the IGC's thunder, but rather to grease the wheels a bit so that the opportunity doesn't slip. Whilst Best Bits isn't officially under the IGC, it is full of IGC members, so please feel free to regard the working group as already formed if this helps. :-) It makes sense for everyone who is interested to work together. -- *Dr Jeremy Malcolm Senior Policy Officer Consumers International | the global campaigning voice for consumers* Office for Asia-Pacific and the Middle East Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Tel: +60 3 7726 1599 *Your rights, our mission – download CI's Strategy 2015:* http://consint.info/RightsMission @Consumers_Int | www.consumersinternational.org | www.facebook.com/consumersinternational Read our email confidentiality notice . Don't print this email unless necessary. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 02:17:31 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 18:17:31 +1200 Subject: [governance] IGC Principles In-Reply-To: <5059616F.6050803@ciroap.org> References: <4EB3C3D2.1070801@wzb.eu> <4EBB9481.1000707@itforchange.net> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8D2C725@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8D2C76C@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <5059616F.6050803@ciroap.org> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 6:08 PM, Jeremy Malcolm wrote: > On 19 Sep, 2012, at 7:23 AM, "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" < > salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > > The numerous controversies surrounding Internet Governance makes it > abundantly and inherently clear of the need for Civil Society to develop > Internet Governance Principles. In light of the same, I thought I would > pull an email from Wolfgang Kleinwachter on the same. > > For continued dialogue, even with the IGC as per the email on > Brainstorming, an additional Working Group could be added to look into this > and it would be great Wolfgang if you could take the lead in developing > this and whoever wants to volunteer can indicate their interest > > > There is sort of a working group for this already, as the IG Principles > you speak of are one of the output documents planned to be opened for > signature at the Best Bits meeting http://igf-online.net/bestbits. > This is excellent Jeremy. > Wolfgang had reconfirmed that he would take the lead in developing it > through an online working group, though he has been quite busy so the work > hasn't progressed far. > > Meanwhile there has been some discussion on the Best Bits list on whether > or not this statement of principles should be merged with the other planned > output from Best Bits, which is a statement to WCIT about the ITU's role in > Internet governance (if you have a view on that, please feel free to > express it either here or on the Best Bits list). > > I would suggest keeping the principles separate. Be good once we get a firm feel of how we want to improve coordination of IGC input in critical areas (brainstorming) that groups can quickly work on gathering input and discussion in various areas. > This isn't intended to steal any of the IGC's thunder, but rather to > grease the wheels a bit so that the opportunity doesn't slip. > All about collaboration, it's good that there's a cross-lateral approach but at the same time we need sustainable systems to be able to effectively build up positions and analysis. > Whilst Best Bits isn't officially under the IGC, it is full of IGC > members, so please feel free to regard the working group as already formed > if this helps. > Yes I did notice the mailing list also rides on the IGC. > :-) It makes sense for everyone who is interested to work together. > It makes sense. > > -- > > *Dr Jeremy Malcolm > Senior Policy Officer > Consumers International | the global campaigning voice for consumers* > Office for Asia-Pacific and the Middle East > Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, > Malaysia > Tel: +60 3 7726 1599 > > *Your rights, our mission – download CI's Strategy 2015:* > http://consint.info/RightsMission > > @Consumers_Int | www.consumersinternational.org | > www.facebook.com/consumersinternational > > Read our email confidentiality notice. > Don't print this email unless necessary. > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ian.peter at ianpeter.com Wed Sep 19 02:23:41 2012 From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 16:23:41 +1000 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In this context people might find this article by Tim Wu interesting in that it outlines some of the current Google/You Tube principles and suggests improvements based on a Wikipedia style model http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/107404/when-censorship-makes-sense-how-youtube -should-police-hate-speech# Ian Peter From: Chaitanya Dhareshwar Reply-To: , Chaitanya Dhareshwar Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 11:29:58 +0530 To: , "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" Cc: Tapani Tarvainen Subject: Re: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube I think we all agree   1. Freedom of speech is important 2. What is said must be carefully said - if it's likely to hurt the sentiments of the masses ("perceived compliance") something should be done to prevent that hurt sentiment - strongest being censorship (but what other measures could be used? - as Riaz said  'Reasonable' measures) 3. Service providers like youtube (google) that have a large reach and huge client base should consider possible methods to prevent hate/racist/etc messages (measures werent mentioned - we could work on this) 4. Governments need to know there are measures (point 2 & 3) that can be used without opting for censorship - as Faisal said we need to do our part on this or Governments will probably opt for blanket censorship 5. Violence and censorship are not viable solutions - the damage is just too great   -C On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote: > > > On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 5:47 PM, Tapani Tarvainen > wrote: >> On Sep 19 16:26, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro >> (salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com) wrote: >> >>>> > > I thought the topic was a possible caucus statement on the censorship >>>> > > of youtube, and I've tried to stick to that. >>>> > > And if it hasn't become clear yet, I would support a statement >>>> > > condemning violence but not one demanding censorship. >> >>> > @ Tapani there was never any discussion on demanding censorship >> >> I must have misunderstood some messages, then. >> My apologies for all concerned. > > We are all advocates of an open and free internet at least I think we are. > Developing a statement will help to give us an opportunity to craft messages > about our position in the midst of the turmoil. How we wordsmith would be > collaborative but first it has to resonate within the IGC. If the general > consensus is not to develop a statement, then we won't. >> >> -- >> Tapani Tarvainen >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>      http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> > > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > >   > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >      governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: >      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: >      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >      http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From tapani.tarvainen at effi.org Wed Sep 19 02:58:43 2012 From: tapani.tarvainen at effi.org (Tapani Tarvainen) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 09:58:43 +0300 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: References: <20120918124557.GD30201@baribal.tarvainen.info> <20120919042357.GA3625@musti> <20120919054752.GA3690@baribal.tarvainen.info> Message-ID: <20120919065843.GB3690@baribal.tarvainen.info> On Sep 19 11:29, Chaitanya Dhareshwar (chaitanyabd at gmail.com) wrote: > I think we all agree > > 1. Freedom of speech is important Yes. > 2. What is said must be carefully said - if it's likely to hurt the > sentiments of the masses ("perceived compliance") something should be done > to prevent that hurt sentiment - strongest being censorship (but what other > measures could be used? - as Riaz said 'Reasonable' measures) I'm not sure I agree with that. It isn't always possible or indeed even useful to prevent hurting someone's sentiments in the first place, and moreover attempts to do so can cause much bigger damage in the long term. People believe in the strangest things and someone's sentiments can be hurt by more or less anything, notably by any suggestion that some of their ideas are wrong - and *everybody* has some wrong ideas. (I'm sure I have, I just don't know which ones.) But, I'm rather offended by the word "masses" there. It's as if the people concerned were somehow subhuman, unable to think for themselves, undeserving of human rights such as Freedom of Expression - which includes the right to freely _receive_ information, in order to judge it for themselves. If you argue "masses" should not hear about or see something like the video in question, that they would be better of not knowing about it, you are in effect saying they should not be granted full human rights because they're incompetent to handle them. I would have to agree, however, if your suggesting _their governments_ may think like that and are thus likely to resort to censorship unless some easier ways are available, as suggested by your point 4 below. Also, with all that said, I appreciate the need to strive for more courteous ways of arguing over disagreements and would very much like to seek any non-violent, not-government-enforced means to encourage such. And "reasonable measures" to reduce hurting people's sentiments unnecessarily sounds good. > 3. Service providers like youtube (google) that have a large reach and huge > client base should consider possible methods to prevent hate/racist/etc > messages (measures werent mentioned - we could work on this) I could agree with that, although it depends on the details - I'm not sure we can come up with anything really useful. > 4. Governments need to know there are measures (point 2 & 3) that can be > used without opting for censorship - as Faisal said we need to do our part > on this or Governments will probably opt for blanket censorship Sigh. I must concede you could be right there,even though there's a strong stench of "realpolitik" in there that makes my stomach turn. But I'm old enough to know that compromises are sometimes necessary, and could support something based on that notion. Again, details are crucial. > 5. Violence and censorship are not viable solutions - the damage is just > too great Full agreement here. -- Tapani Tarvainen -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From hasansf at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 03:09:33 2012 From: hasansf at gmail.com (Faisal Hasan) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:09:33 +0600 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear All, I have been closely following the conversations thats going on about this topic. Thanks to those who have replied or following this discussion. I completely agree with Chaitanya's point. Also, thanks to Ian Peter for the article by Tim Wu, that truly outlines a possible solution. As advocates of free and open Internet that serves the good of humanity, global Internet Society and IGC can come together and play our roles. We can definitely provide a join statement about the issue and we can start a working group who will work together to devise a possible solution. Let us put forward our names (or chapters) who wants to work together. Thanks Faisal On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 12:23 PM, Ian Peter wrote: > In this context people might find this article by Tim Wu interesting in > that it outlines some of the current Google/You Tube principles and > suggests improvements based on a Wikipedia style model > > > http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/107404/when-censorship-makes-sense-how-youtube-should-police-hate-speech# > > Ian Peter > > > > > ------------------------------ > *From: *Chaitanya Dhareshwar > *Reply-To: *, Chaitanya Dhareshwar < > chaitanyabd at gmail.com> > *Date: *Wed, 19 Sep 2012 11:29:58 +0530 > *To: *, "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" < > salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> > *Cc: *Tapani Tarvainen > *Subject: *Re: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube > > I think we all agree > > 1. Freedom of speech is important > 2. What is said must be carefully said - if it's likely to hurt the > sentiments of the masses ("perceived compliance") something should be done > to prevent that hurt sentiment - strongest being censorship (but what other > measures could be used? - as Riaz said 'Reasonable' measures) > 3. Service providers like youtube (google) that have a large reach and > huge client base should consider possible methods to prevent > hate/racist/etc messages (measures werent mentioned - we could work on this) > 4. Governments need to know there are measures (point 2 & 3) that can be > used without opting for censorship - as Faisal said we need to do our part > on this or Governments will probably opt for blanket censorship > 5. Violence and censorship are not viable solutions - the damage is just > too great > > -C > > On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < > salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 5:47 PM, Tapani Tarvainen < > tapani.tarvainen at effi.org> wrote: > > On Sep 19 16:26, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro ( > salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com) wrote: > > > > I thought the topic was a possible caucus statement on the censorship > > > of youtube, and I've tried to stick to that. > > > And if it hasn't become clear yet, I would support a statement > > > condemning violence but not one demanding censorship. > > > @ Tapani there was never any discussion on demanding censorship > > I must have misunderstood some messages, then. > My apologies for all concerned. > > > We are all advocates of an open and free internet at least I think we are. > Developing a statement will help to give us an opportunity to craft > messages about our position in the midst of the turmoil. How we wordsmith > would be collaborative but first it has to resonate within the IGC. If the > general consensus is not to develop a statement, then we won't. > > > -- > Tapani Tarvainen > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > > ------------------------------ > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 03:24:26 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 12:54:26 +0530 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: <20120919065843.GB3690@baribal.tarvainen.info> References: <20120918124557.GD30201@baribal.tarvainen.info> <20120919042357.GA3625@musti> <20120919054752.GA3690@baribal.tarvainen.info> <20120919065843.GB3690@baribal.tarvainen.info> Message-ID: Hi Tapani, Ref point #2, > I would have to agree, however, if your suggesting _their governments_ > may think like that and are thus likely to resort to censorship unless > some easier ways are available, as suggested by your point 4 below. > Yes that's pretty much what I mean - but "government or other controlling entity". I specifically mention the other controlling entity due to the nature of the internet. -C On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 12:28 PM, Tapani Tarvainen < tapani.tarvainen at effi.org> wrote: > On Sep 19 11:29, Chaitanya Dhareshwar (chaitanyabd at gmail.com) wrote: > > > I think we all agree > > > > 1. Freedom of speech is important > > Yes. > > > 2. What is said must be carefully said - if it's likely to hurt the > > sentiments of the masses ("perceived compliance") something should be > done > > to prevent that hurt sentiment - strongest being censorship (but what > other > > measures could be used? - as Riaz said 'Reasonable' measures) > > I'm not sure I agree with that. It isn't always possible or indeed > even useful to prevent hurting someone's sentiments in the first place, > and moreover attempts to do so can cause much bigger damage in the long > term. > People believe in the strangest things and someone's sentiments can be > hurt by more or less anything, notably by any suggestion that some > of their ideas are wrong - and *everybody* has some wrong ideas. > (I'm sure I have, I just don't know which ones.) > > But, I'm rather offended by the word "masses" there. > It's as if the people concerned were somehow subhuman, unable to > think for themselves, undeserving of human rights such as > Freedom of Expression - which includes the right to freely _receive_ > information, in order to judge it for themselves. > > If you argue "masses" should not hear about or see something like the > video in question, that they would be better of not knowing about it, > you are in effect saying they should not be granted full human rights > because they're incompetent to handle them. > > I would have to agree, however, if your suggesting _their governments_ > may think like that and are thus likely to resort to censorship unless > some easier ways are available, as suggested by your point 4 below. > > Also, with all that said, I appreciate the need to strive for more > courteous ways of arguing over disagreements and would very much like > to seek any non-violent, not-government-enforced means to encourage such. > And "reasonable measures" to reduce hurting people's sentiments > unnecessarily sounds good. > > > 3. Service providers like youtube (google) that have a large reach and > huge > > client base should consider possible methods to prevent hate/racist/etc > > messages (measures werent mentioned - we could work on this) > > I could agree with that, although it depends on the details - > I'm not sure we can come up with anything really useful. > > > 4. Governments need to know there are measures (point 2 & 3) that can be > > used without opting for censorship - as Faisal said we need to do our > part > > on this or Governments will probably opt for blanket censorship > > Sigh. I must concede you could be right there,even though there's > a strong stench of "realpolitik" in there that makes my stomach turn. > But I'm old enough to know that compromises are sometimes necessary, > and could support something based on that notion. > Again, details are crucial. > > > 5. Violence and censorship are not viable solutions - the damage is just > > too great > > Full agreement here. > > -- > Tapani Tarvainen > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From tapani.tarvainen at effi.org Wed Sep 19 03:45:38 2012 From: tapani.tarvainen at effi.org (Tapani Tarvainen) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 10:45:38 +0300 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: References: <20120918124557.GD30201@baribal.tarvainen.info> <20120919042357.GA3625@musti> <20120919054752.GA3690@baribal.tarvainen.info> <20120919065843.GB3690@baribal.tarvainen.info> Message-ID: <20120919074537.GD3690@baribal.tarvainen.info> On Sep 19 12:54, Chaitanya Dhareshwar (chaitanyabd at gmail.com) wrote: > Hi Tapani, > > Ref point #2, > > > > I would have to agree, however, if your suggesting _their governments_ > > may think like that and are thus likely to resort to censorship unless > > some easier ways are available, as suggested by your point 4 below. > > > > Yes that's pretty much what I mean - but "government or other controlling > entity". I specifically mention the other controlling entity due to the > nature of the internet. Right you are. We're in perfect agreement, then. I'll just highlight one more thing in what you said: > > > 2. What is said must be carefully said Indeed. -- Tapani Tarvainen -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From admin at alkasir.com Wed Sep 19 03:50:34 2012 From: admin at alkasir.com (Walid AL-SAQAF ) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 09:50:34 +0200 Subject: [governance] IPv4, R.I.P.: Europe hits old internet address limits In-Reply-To: <5058F035.8060208@gih.com> References: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B138739@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> <5058F035.8060208@gih.com> Message-ID: Well-said Olivier. It kind of reminds me of a famous quote by Thomas Edison *"The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work."* And the opportunity to be IPv6-ready is staring at us in the face. Sincerely, Walid ----------------- Walid Al-Saqaf Founder & Administrator alkasir for mapping and circumventing cyber censorship https://alkasir.com On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 12:05 AM, Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond wrote: > > On 18/09/2012 12:27, Fahd A. Batayneh wrote: > > (I always thought it would be the UK or the US at #1; funny they're not >> even top 10 >> > > For a country having a v4 pool of IP addresses ~3 times the number of its > population, why on earth would they think about IPv6 seriously (taking into > account the cost vs. revenue structure it currently possesses for them and > the fact that the rest of the world has other more important issues to deal > with such as accessing the Internet itself). > > > If you look at the Internet using the current prism, of course there's no > real need to move to IPv6. > But then consider the day when a whizz kid will invent a killer app that > needs native IPv6 to run and that everyone and their dog will want to have. > What then? Implementing IPv6 takes time and investment, we all know, and > those who will not be ready will be crying about how unfair the Internet > is, just like many are crying today... many of whom laughed at the Internet > in 1992. > Kind regards, > > Olivier > > -- > Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhDhttp://www.gih.com/ocl.html > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From jlfullsack at orange.fr Wed Sep 19 03:50:46 2012 From: jlfullsack at orange.fr (Jean-Louis FULLSACK) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 09:50:46 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [governance] Search engines and US laws Message-ID: <1155532419.5024.1348041046610.JavaMail.www@wwinf1e15> For your information   See attached document   Source : IBLS website     greetings Jean-Louis Fullsack -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Internet_Search engines and US laws.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 28299 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From info at freshmail.de Wed Sep 19 06:24:23 2012 From: info at freshmail.de (Matthias Pfeifer Freshmail) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 12:24:23 +0200 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube References: <20120918124557.GD30201@baribal.tarvainen.info><20120919042357.GA3625@musti><20120919054752.GA3690@baribal.tarvainen.info> Message-ID: <516565A8A1BC4BC6AA2C3DEA7C5B8CA8@stateless> Hello Chaitanya. >1. work out the reasonable measures that should be used to precede/prevent censorship without impeding >internet freedom (for governments and other controlling institutions) >2. whether google/etc should be requested to 'process' the content that is uploaded - specially ones with words >targeting a particular community/religeon Point 2 sounds like a censorship-tool to me. Additionally, techniques based on keywords were never a good idea because its lack of knowledge the context. So, for example, google would need to run a team to review each clip or message which contains one or more of the "badwords". And who should build such a badword list? I think that we have learned that such techniques just move a problem to another stage and the issue will never be solved. Matthias ----- Original Message ----- From: Chaitanya Dhareshwar To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org ; Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro Cc: Tapani Tarvainen Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 8:05 AM Subject: Re: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube What we could do (before making a statement) - IMHO - is: 1. work out the reasonable measures that should be used to precede/prevent censorship without impeding internet freedom (for governments and other controlling institutions) 2. whether google/etc should be requested to 'process' the content that is uploaded - specially ones with words targeting a particular community/religeon -C On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 11:29 AM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar wrote: I think we all agree 1. Freedom of speech is important 2. What is said must be carefully said - if it's likely to hurt the sentiments of the masses ("perceived compliance") something should be done to prevent that hurt sentiment - strongest being censorship (but what other measures could be used? - as Riaz said 'Reasonable' measures) 3. Service providers like youtube (google) that have a large reach and huge client base should consider possible methods to prevent hate/racist/etc messages (measures werent mentioned - we could work on this) 4. Governments need to know there are measures (point 2 & 3) that can be used without opting for censorship - as Faisal said we need to do our part on this or Governments will probably opt for blanket censorship 5. Violence and censorship are not viable solutions - the damage is just too great -C On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote: On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 5:47 PM, Tapani Tarvainen wrote: On Sep 19 16:26, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro (salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com) wrote: > > I thought the topic was a possible caucus statement on the censorship > > of youtube, and I've tried to stick to that. > > And if it hasn't become clear yet, I would support a statement > > condemning violence but not one demanding censorship. > @ Tapani there was never any discussion on demanding censorship I must have misunderstood some messages, then. My apologies for all concerned. We are all advocates of an open and free internet at least I think we are. Developing a statement will help to give us an opportunity to craft messages about our position in the midst of the turmoil. How we wordsmith would be collaborative but first it has to resonate within the IGC. If the general consensus is not to develop a statement, then we won't. -- Tapani Tarvainen ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From nb at bollow.ch Wed Sep 19 06:31:02 2012 From: nb at bollow.ch (Norbert Bollow) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 12:31:02 +0200 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: References: <20120918124557.GD30201@baribal.tarvainen.info> <20120919042357.GA3625@musti> <20120919054752.GA3690@baribal.tarvainen.info> Message-ID: <20120919123102.372823e0@quill.bollow.ch> Chaitanya Dhareshwar wrote: > 2. What is said must be carefully said - if it's likely to hurt the > sentiments of the masses ("perceived compliance") something should be > done to prevent that hurt sentiment - strongest being censorship (but > what other measures could be used? - as Riaz said 'Reasonable' > measures) One measure which IMO is eminently reasonable and should be used more is: Specific education on the issues related to media literacy and influencing the future of humanity in the globalized world. On one hand, such education is obviously lacking in Western countries. In fact I think that a key aspect of what leads to the making of such films is that the people who created it (and also their friends and other people in their social circles who knew about the project and could have influenced them to stop it, but didn't try to do that) had too little understanding of what emotions this film would trigger, and what this could potentially lead to. (I don't think that any of these people would have desired to cause the quite predictably possible, huge negative impact on the ability of their country's ability to safeguard her interests and the interests of her citizens in relation to the countries where excessive reactions are likely!) On the other hand, an analogous but different lack of understanding obviously also exists in the countries where the excessive and even violent reactions are happening. Greetings, Norbert -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From kabani.asif at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 06:40:13 2012 From: kabani.asif at gmail.com (Kabani) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 15:40:13 +0500 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: <20120919042357.GA3625@musti> References: <20120918124557.GD30201@baribal.tarvainen.info> <20120919042357.GA3625@musti> Message-ID: Tapani, Thank you for understanding the context of issues her for policy statement. Secondly, You are mis-quotating me on the subject, Pl read carefully the text. AK: We as community need to prevent these type of act, used in name freedom of > expression, Violence in any form is not acceptable on street or through any > means including internet. I said "Violence in any form is not acceptable on street or through any > means including internet." Pl correct your statement, "Yet you seem to be supporting the use of violence to suppress this specific case of expression" Regards On 19 September 2012 09:23, Tapani Tarvainen wrote: > On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 08:13:06PM +0500, Kabani (kabani.asif at gmail.com) > wrote: > > > Dear Tapani, > > > > Thanks for the input, > > > > Do you think that this type of video should be post on the Internet? > > (Yes/No) > > > > Do you want more people to make more videos like this one on all other > > regions and cultures of the world? In context of Freedom of Expression. > > I haven't actually seen the video, but it doesn't really matter, I can > answer anyway: > > First, I think it would be better if people wouldn't post such videos. > But that applies to a lot of stuff in the Internet, including some > I'm sure you consider good and useful. > > Second, much more important, I think people should *have the right* > to post such videos if they want to. It should be up to them, up to > each individual, to decide what they want to say, not up to any > government to judge whether or not it is true or useful and ban > or allow it accordingly. > > > We as community need to prevent these type of act, used in name freedom > of > > expression, Violence in any form is not acceptable on street or through > any > > means including internet. > > Yet you seem to be supporting the use of violence to suppress this > specific case of expression. > > > The Internet must remain natural and should not support any one , > > I'm not sure I understand that. > > > and we must respect everyone human rights. > > With that I agree 100%. > > > Pl. dont mis-lead the group, lets keep the discussion in neutral > > way, and stay focus on topic. > > I thought the topic was a possible caucus statement on the censorship > of youtube, and I've tried to stick to that. > And if it hasn't become clear yet, I would support a statement > condemning violence but not one demanding censorship. > > -- > Tapani Tarvainen > -- *Follow me @* * **Before you print think about the** **ENVIRONMENT* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 06:42:22 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 22:42:22 +1200 Subject: [governance] Survey Results [Evaluating the IGC] Message-ID: Dear All, This is to advise that the Survey where the community was invited to evaluate the IGC has been closed. The IGC was invited to assess and evaluate and offer their perspective on whether the IGC was meeting its objectives under the Charter. The Survey was open from Thursday September 6, 2012 till Wednesday September 19, 2012 and there were 29 respondents. We thank all those that participated in the Survey to offer feedback in this important process as it will enable us as a community to see how we can better improve things. Thank you again to all those that participated in the Survey. We would also like to thank Chaitanya Dhareshwar for volunteering to assist us with the preparation of this Survey. To see the list of those who particpated visit page 6 and to see how they responded to each question, read further along. Hopefully this can assist us in brainstorming to discuss continued IGC improvements. Kind Regards, -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IGC Evaluation Survey 2012.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 59163 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From hasansf at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 06:44:49 2012 From: hasansf at gmail.com (Faisal Hasan) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 16:44:49 +0600 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: <20120919123102.372823e0@quill.bollow.ch> References: <20120918124557.GD30201@baribal.tarvainen.info> <20120919042357.GA3625@musti> <20120919054752.GA3690@baribal.tarvainen.info> <20120919123102.372823e0@quill.bollow.ch> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Norbert Bollow wrote: > Chaitanya Dhareshwar wrote: > > > 2. What is said must be carefully said - if it's likely to hurt the > > sentiments of the masses ("perceived compliance") something should be > > done to prevent that hurt sentiment - strongest being censorship (but > > what other measures could be used? - as Riaz said 'Reasonable' > > measures) > > One measure which IMO is eminently reasonable and should be used more > is: Specific education on the issues related to media literacy and > influencing the future of humanity in the globalized world. > > On one hand, such education is obviously lacking in Western countries. > In fact I think that a key aspect of what leads to the making of such > films is that the people who created it (and also their friends and > other people in their social circles who knew about the project and > could have influenced them to stop it, but didn't try to do that) had > too little understanding of what emotions this film would trigger, and > what this could potentially lead to. (I don't think that any of these > people would have desired to cause the quite predictably possible, huge > negative impact on the ability of their country's ability to safeguard > her interests and the interests of her citizens in relation to the > countries where excessive reactions are likely!) > > I agree with this. Lack of education is one of the reasons why some people donot understand the seriousness / implication of a small clip that can wound millions of people around the world. On the other hand, an analogous but different lack of understanding > obviously also exists in the countries where the excessive and > even violent reactions are happening. > > Violence is not a solution and it must be condemned where ever that is. We also should be careful about the content that has the potential to erupt mass violence around the world not just one place, content that deeply hurts not just thousands but millions of people. We donot need to filter through key words and expensive algorithms/logistics to determine such content, simple conscience and compassion for others is enough. Greetings, > Norbert > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From daniel at digsys.bg Wed Sep 19 06:49:09 2012 From: daniel at digsys.bg (Daniel Kalchev) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:49:09 +0300 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: <516565A8A1BC4BC6AA2C3DEA7C5B8CA8@stateless> References: <20120918124557.GD30201@baribal.tarvainen.info><20120919042357.GA3625@musti><20120919054752.GA3690@baribal.tarvainen.info> <516565A8A1BC4BC6AA2C3DEA7C5B8CA8@stateless> Message-ID: <5059A325.5090104@digsys.bg> On 19.09.12 13:24, Matthias Pfeifer Freshmail wrote: > Hello Chaitanya. > >2. whether google/etc should be requested to 'process' the content > that is uploaded - specially ones with words >targeting a particular > community/religeon > Point 2 sounds like a censorship-tool to me. Additionally, techniques > based on keywords were never a good idea > because its lack of knowledge the context. > This is nicely illustrated by the recent "problem" with Apple censuring the word Vagina in any text. That was apparently fully automated and with "good intentions". The issue with censorship is very serious. In this particular "global" coverage of YouTube, there should be experts in about any culture imaginable and it is certain there will be cases where some society's members will be offended. Restricting censorship to well known subjects/languages/cultures is exactly what we have today: "If it doesn't sound offensive in my language/English, then it's ok". Censorship is what reduces our ability to learn in particular about other cultures and views. It should not be encourages in any way. Which is sort of easy today, because Internet let's censorship be avoided. Daniel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From tapani.tarvainen at effi.org Wed Sep 19 06:59:26 2012 From: tapani.tarvainen at effi.org (Tapani Tarvainen) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:59:26 +0300 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: References: <20120918124557.GD30201@baribal.tarvainen.info> <20120919042357.GA3625@musti> Message-ID: <20120919105925.GE3690@baribal.tarvainen.info> On Sep 19 15:40, Kabani (kabani.asif at gmail.com) wrote: > You are mis-quotating me on the subject, Pl read carefully the > text. My apologies, although I didn't so much misquote as misunderstood you. >> AK: We as community need to prevent these type of act, used in name >> freedom of expression, Violence in any form is not acceptable on >> street or through any means including internet. > I said > > "Violence in any form is not acceptable on street or through any > > means including internet." Yes, which seemed to me to contradict the previous sentence: >> We as community need to prevent these type of act, used in name >> freedom of expression The way I interpreted that was that you wanted to stop such videos from being distributed because of the violence, and that in turn to me sounded like supporting said violence, as its apparent purpose is stopping distribution of the video. > Pl correct your statement, > "Yet you seem to be supporting the use of violence to suppress this > specific case of expression" So, my misunderstanding of your statements made them seem contradictory to me, which is why I said "... seem to ..." - not to suggest that it was what you actually meant but to indicate my uncertainty of your intention. I do not and did not intend to suggest that you actually condone violence, only that your words could be so (mis)interpreted - as noted we do need to choose our words very carefully. Thank you for clarification, and my apologies for misunderstanding and expressing myself unclearly. -- Tapani Tarvainen -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From kabani.asif at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 07:05:15 2012 From: kabani.asif at gmail.com (Kabani) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 16:05:15 +0500 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: <20120919105925.GE3690@baribal.tarvainen.info> References: <20120918124557.GD30201@baribal.tarvainen.info> <20120919042357.GA3625@musti> <20120919105925.GE3690@baribal.tarvainen.info> Message-ID: Tapani, Thank you for your understanding and apologies. We respect your view as community. Regards On 19 September 2012 15:59, Tapani Tarvainen wrote: > On Sep 19 15:40, Kabani (kabani.asif at gmail.com) wrote: > > > You are mis-quotating me on the subject, Pl read carefully the > > text. > > My apologies, although I didn't so much misquote as misunderstood you. > > >> AK: We as community need to prevent these type of act, used in name > >> freedom of expression, Violence in any form is not acceptable on > >> street or through any means including internet. > > > I said > > > "Violence in any form is not acceptable on street or through any > > > means including internet." > > Yes, which seemed to me to contradict the previous sentence: > > >> We as community need to prevent these type of act, used in name > >> freedom of expression > > The way I interpreted that was that you wanted to stop such videos > from being distributed because of the violence, and that in turn to me > sounded like supporting said violence, as its apparent purpose is > stopping distribution of the video. > > > Pl correct your statement, > > "Yet you seem to be supporting the use of violence to suppress this > > specific case of expression" > > So, my misunderstanding of your statements made them seem contradictory > to me, which is why I said "... seem to ..." - not to suggest that > it was what you actually meant but to indicate my uncertainty of > your intention. > > I do not and did not intend to suggest that you actually condone > violence, only that your words could be so (mis)interpreted - > as noted we do need to choose our words very carefully. > > Thank you for clarification, and my apologies for misunderstanding > and expressing myself unclearly. > > -- > Tapani Tarvainen > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- *Follow me @* * **Before you print think about the** **ENVIRONMENT* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From daniel at digsys.bg Wed Sep 19 07:12:12 2012 From: daniel at digsys.bg (Daniel Kalchev) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 14:12:12 +0300 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: References: <915A0BA1B37E4E8792429EA5383E5D98@stateless> <50588658.8020202@digsys.bg> <505894EA.3070603@digsys.bg> Message-ID: <5059A88C.40201@digsys.bg> On 18.09.12 23:30, Fahd A. Batayneh wrote: > > Thus, I would NEVER post anything that could rage followers of a > religion or a certain community, and if I did that unintentionally, I > would definitely remove it. Never say never. We learn new things all the time and often discover that our old behavior or beliefs were.. not appropriate. > > I know the most typical answer, "it was old times, barbarian > tribes, nobody knows now etc, so a different religion". > > > Not exactly. As I stated in my earlier e-mail, historians can > interpret history from the way they see things. Look at the Youtube > video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtqJhvSydMU&feature=related > for a > different view that insults no one. > I can understand the sentiment of this video. I can also understand why it is necessary to say all these things. American made? :) The video actually proves my point... It also has nothing to do with religion. But this is getting way of topic. I believe it is more appropriate we move the discussion about damages caused by religion off line. My apologies to the list for dragging it up to here. But if you insist that it is the same religion, I must warn everyone around that it is *extremely dangerous* for the future of mankind. I hope not.. (and hope leaves last) Daniel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 07:23:48 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 20:23:48 +0900 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: <5059A88C.40201@digsys.bg> References: <915A0BA1B37E4E8792429EA5383E5D98@stateless> <50588658.8020202@digsys.bg> <505894EA.3070603@digsys.bg> <5059A88C.40201@digsys.bg> Message-ID: > > (snip) > > But if you insist that it is the same religion, I must warn everyone > around that it is *extremely dangerous* for the future of mankind. I hope > not.. (and hope leaves last). > I am not insisting on anything here, and I am starting to wonder which religion are you referring to (whatever religion that is). Anyways, you are not the one to judge on such issues (being * extremely dangerous *) for any religion regardless. Let us leave it to the experts on the subject matter. This is EOT for me. Fahd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From drc at virtualized.org Wed Sep 19 11:21:01 2012 From: drc at virtualized.org (David Conrad) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 08:21:01 -0700 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: References: <20120918124557.GD30201@baribal.tarvainen.info> <20120919042357.GA3625@musti> <20120919054752.GA3690@baribal.tarvainen.info> <20120919123102.372823e0@quill.bollow.ch> Message-ID: <596AFC4B-8822-413D-9EFF-FB1884020F62@virtualized.org> Faisal, On Sep 19, 2012, at 3:44 AM, Faisal Hasan wrote: > Lack of education is one of the reasons why some people donot understand the seriousness / implication of a small clip that can wound millions of people around the world. This seems reversed to me. My impression, looking at news reports on the background of how the video became such an item of note, is that the creators/distributors of the video knew what the implications of creating/releasing the video would be and, in fact, were counting on the over-reaction in order to put the Muslim world in a bad light. The instigators of the rioting (TV personalities and politicians) and the people rioting played directly into the desires of the video's creators/distributors. There are a lot of crazy people out there who are going to do bad things on purpose, regardless of their education. Given the Internet allows pretty much anyone to be a content producer, regardless of their sanity or intent, I would think it important to educate everyone else that there are people who, for whatever reason, will say things that you don't like, you will find offensive, etc., but the correct response is _never_ violence and not to assume it is, as one commentator in Egypt said, "100% the US" (or whatever). Regards, -drc -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From daniel at digsys.bg Wed Sep 19 11:57:02 2012 From: daniel at digsys.bg (Daniel Kalchev) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 18:57:02 +0300 Subject: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: <596AFC4B-8822-413D-9EFF-FB1884020F62@virtualized.org> References: <20120918124557.GD30201@baribal.tarvainen.info> <20120919042357.GA3625@musti> <20120919054752.GA3690@baribal.tarvainen.info> <20120919123102.372823e0@quill.bollow.ch> <596AFC4B-8822-413D-9EFF-FB1884020F62@virtualized.org> Message-ID: <5059EB4E.5050002@digsys.bg> On 19.09.12 18:21, David Conrad wrote: > My impression, looking at news reports on the background of how the > video became such an item of note, is that the creators/distributors > of the video knew what the implications of creating/releasing the > video would be and, in fact, were counting on the over-reaction in > order to put the Muslim world in a bad light. The instigators of the > rioting (TV personalities and politicians) and the people rioting > played directly into the desires of the video's creators/distributors. Good observation. This reminds me of the time the "Eastern block failed". The quote are here, because this is not what happened in reality. But, at the time it turned out there are large scientific units in the US and elsewhere that were working in the field of "behavioral sciences" -- that more or less had country-specific, community-specific and even religion-specific (not to say, history-related) studies, that suggested how the particular community may be manipulated to react to an otherwise innocent provocation. Including appropriate wording... It all worked amazingly well in some societies and failed in some others. Most people, who were subject to that.. "scientific experiment", didn't even realize it actually happened. The question still remains. Who ordered this? I have the probably unpopular suspicion that it was those regimes that didn't like much the Arab spring outcome. What better way to suppress freedom voices, than to create an (religious in this case) enemy and ask everyone to be united... Daniel -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From cveraq at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 12:01:36 2012 From: cveraq at gmail.com (Carlos Vera Quintana) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 11:01:36 -0500 Subject: [Chapter-delegates] [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube In-Reply-To: <5059E982.4000500@gmail.com> References: <5059E982.4000500@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2A109077-0B3F-4D1B-BC66-BD26CB1DEE78@gmail.com> >From my point of view the content shouldn't be related to the media or cloud (container) Google or hp or X company are private companies and have to have the right to decide what and what not publish. Of course in legal terms their face some legal issues as container... Even if they can not be responsible for third part publications, except when warned or enforced by law to shutdown some service o to block some content. Free expression has nothing to do with "publish whatever you want without being responsible for that" because there will be always a subsequent responsibility for owner, publisher or container. We are here in ethical arena where we must use logical and common sense.. and more when there are evidences of negative consequences all around the world for some content or publication. Carlos Vera Internet Society Ecuador Enviado desde mi iPhone El 19/09/2012, a las 10:49, "Carlos M. Martinez" escribió: > Agreed. I don't think Google (or any other organization for that matter) should have either the 'right' nor the obligation of policing content. It's a very dangerous slippery slope that quickly leads to restrictions on freedom of expression and other crackdowns on content on the name of 'safety' or 'religion'. > > Additionally, if the community should choose to follow this path of content policing, it will quickly become unmanageable as there are thousands of possible communities that might find themselves 'offended' by something or other that other community says. > > Someone mentioned before, Google has 'big pockets' and could possibly maintain an army of censors, each trained on the particulars of different religions and cultures trying to flag content as 'possibly offensive'. If you make this a requirement, where does this leave smaller content providers? What about individual bloggers? What about individual Facebook profiles? Should they be policed too? > > As Mr. McNamara puts it, nobody is being forced to watch the video. And I can't help but feel that the video is just an excuse useful for getting people on the streets for political reasons. This is not the first time this has happened. Off the top of my head, without doing any research, I can remember the Danish cartoons, and way before that, even before the Internet went commercial, it was Salman Rushdie and the 'Satanic Verses'. > > So, personally, I don't think the problem here lies with the Internet or with Google, or with Wikipedia. They may be the symptom, but there are deeper issues at play. > > Warm regards, > > ~Carlos > > On 9/19/12 4:20 AM, G. S. McNamara wrote: >> I completely disagree. Simply because a group of people have an issue with the content does not mean that the it should be banned from the Internet or removed at the source. Those people can simply avoid viewing the content themselves, instead of asking that it be removed for the whole world. >> >> Google has a policy to remove content that has threats in it. However, if people become violent in response to a video, that is beyond their control. >> >> I am only speaking for myself. >> >> Garrett McNamara >> >> >> On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 3:09 AM, Faisal Hasan wrote: >> Dear All, >> >> I have been closely following the conversations thats going on about this topic. Thanks to those who have replied or following this discussion. I completely agree with Chaitanya's point. Also, thanks to Ian Peter for the article by Tim Wu, that truly outlines a possible solution. >> >> As advocates of free and open Internet that serves the good of humanity, global Internet Society and IGC can come together and play our roles. We can definitely provide a join statement about the issue and we can start a working group who will work together to devise a possible solution. Let us put forward our names (or chapters) who wants to work together. >> >> Thanks >> Faisal >> >> >> >> On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 12:23 PM, Ian Peter wrote: >> In this context people might find this article by Tim Wu interesting in that it outlines some of the current Google/You Tube principles and suggests improvements based on a Wikipedia style model >> >> http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/107404/when-censorship-makes-sense-how-youtube-should-police-hate-speech# >> >> Ian Peter >> >> >> >> >> From: Chaitanya Dhareshwar >> Reply-To: , Chaitanya Dhareshwar >> Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 11:29:58 +0530 >> To: , "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" >> Cc: Tapani Tarvainen >> Subject: Re: [governance] Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube >> >> I think we all agree >> >> 1. Freedom of speech is important >> 2. What is said must be carefully said - if it's likely to hurt the sentiments of the masses ("perceived compliance") something should be done to prevent that hurt sentiment - strongest being censorship (but what other measures could be used? - as Riaz said 'Reasonable' measures) >> 3. Service providers like youtube (google) that have a large reach and huge client base should consider possible methods to prevent hate/racist/etc messages (measures werent mentioned - we could work on this) >> 4. Governments need to know there are measures (point 2 & 3) that can be used without opting for censorship - as Faisal said we need to do our part on this or Governments will probably opt for blanket censorship >> 5. Violence and censorship are not viable solutions - the damage is just too great >> >> -C >> >> On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote: >> >> >> On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 5:47 PM, Tapani Tarvainen wrote: >> On Sep 19 16:26, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro (salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com) wrote: >> >> > > I thought the topic was a possible caucus statement on the censorship >> > > of youtube, and I've tried to stick to that. >> > > And if it hasn't become clear yet, I would support a statement >> > > condemning violence but not one demanding censorship. >> >> > @ Tapani there was never any discussion on demanding censorship >> >> I must have misunderstood some messages, then. >> My apologies for all concerned. >> >> We are all advocates of an open and free internet at least I think we are. Developing a statement will help to give us an opportunity to craft messages about our position in the midst of the turmoil. How we wordsmith would be collaborative but first it has to resonate within the IGC. If the general consensus is not to develop a statement, then we won't. >> >> -- >> Tapani Tarvainen >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala >> P.O. Box 17862 >> Suva >> Fiji >> >> Twitter: @SalanietaT >> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro >> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 >> >> >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed >> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society >> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed >> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society >> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org > > _______________________________________________ > As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed > to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society > Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From anupamagrawal.in at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 15:11:29 2012 From: anupamagrawal.in at gmail.com (Anupam Agrawal) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 00:41:29 +0530 Subject: [governance] IPv4, R.I.P.: Europe hits old internet address limit In-Reply-To: References: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B138739@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu> <5058F035.8060208@gih.com> Message-ID: <9796BEA0-C6D1-4549-A3A0-E8DF9567AB92@gmail.com> Hi Olivier Indeed a true scenario and based on the volume projections of Internet, countries which have no Ipv4 are the best ones to have ipv6. It's time that we all seriously start thinking in terms implementation. Anupam Agrawal On 19-Sep-2012, at 1:20 PM, "Walid AL-SAQAF " wrote: > Well-said Olivier. > > It kind of reminds me of a famous quote by Thomas Edison "The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work." > > And the opportunity to be IPv6-ready is staring at us in the face. > > Sincerely, > > Walid > > ----------------- > > Walid Al-Saqaf > Founder & Administrator > alkasir for mapping and circumventing cyber censorship > https://alkasir.com > > > On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 12:05 AM, Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond wrote: > > On 18/09/2012 12:27, Fahd A. Batayneh wrote: >> (I always thought it would be the UK or the US at #1; funny they're not even top 10 >> >> For a country having a v4 pool of IP addresses ~3 times the number of its population, why on earth would they think about IPv6 seriously (taking into account the cost vs. revenue structure it currently possesses for them and the fact that the rest of the world has other more important issues to deal with such as accessing the Internet itself). > > If you look at the Internet using the current prism, of course there's no real need to move to IPv6. > But then consider the day when a whizz kid will invent a killer app that needs native IPv6 to run and that everyone and their dog will want to have. What then? Implementing IPv6 takes time and investment, we all know, and those who will not be ready will be crying about how unfair the Internet is, just like many are crying today... many of whom laughed at the Internet in 1992. > Kind regards, > > Olivier > > -- > Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD > http://www.gih.com/ocl.html > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From pranesh at cis-india.org Wed Sep 19 17:54:35 2012 From: pranesh at cis-india.org (Pranesh Prakash) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 17:54:35 -0400 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: <505006F1.3020903@itforchange.net> References: <50332E85.8060106@itforchange.net> <50333A5C.7060908@itforchange.net> <504F7F81.6020705@cis-india.org> <505006F1.3020903@itforchange.net> Message-ID: <505A3F1B.2090803@cis-india.org> parminder [2012-09-11 23:52]: > On Tuesday 11 September 2012 11:44 PM, Pranesh Prakash wrote: >> Which law would you like ICANN to be subject to? After all, given that >> they are a brick-and-mortar organization, they will have to subject >> themselves to one nation's law or another's. Which one should it be, then? > > Pranesh, you work with WIPO which is a brick and mortar organisation which > , in terms of its substantive work, is subject to no nation's jurisdiction. > It is only subject to international law. In fact all UN organisations are > brick and mortar organisations, arent they; they are physically located in > one country or the other without their substantive activities being subject > to the respective national law. There's a difference between WIPO and ICANN. Almost none of WIPO's decisions are self-executing: the existence of something like the WIPO Copyright Treaty doesn't mean countries automatically follow it. However, ICANN (and IANA) allowing a registry for a new TLD means that anyone using the standard root automatically has access to that TLD. In that sense, decisions made by ICANN/IANA are self-executing — unlike most other UN bodies, whose policies outcomes need either prior- or post-outcome endorsement in some treaty and in national accession. And for what it's worth, WIPO *is* subject to Swiss laws on everything from fire safety onwards. And for what it's worth, the decision by the WIPO secretariat to provide technological support in the form of computers to Iran and North Korea, inter alia, to upgrade their patent offices has come under the scrutiny of the American Congress for provision of dual-use technology — whether rightly or wrongly so. > Do I take from your framing of the above question that, therefore, you are > fine for a global governance institution like ICANN to be subject to US's > law and jurisdiction in terms of its substantive governance activities? A question isn't an argument, and people's view are often more complicated than binaries. Testing the alternatives' worthiness doesn't mean giving up on the quest to find viable alternatives. -- Pranesh Prakash Policy Director Centre for Internet and Society T: +91 80 40926283 | W: http://cis-india.org PGP ID: 0x1D5C5F07 | Twitter: @pranesh_prakash -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 259 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 22:25:19 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 11:25:19 +0900 Subject: [governance] Broadband: Presidential Policies Primer Message-ID: "*The Information Technology & Innovation Foundation last week released a side-by-side comparison of the broadband telecom policy positions of President Obama and Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney, based on “campaign websites, party platforms, Administration documents, and media reports.” There was agreement on Internet freedom when it came to international governance issues. Not so much when it came to the Federal Communications Commission’s network-neutrality rules. Many of the differences were rooted in the basic Democratic-Republican divide over the role of government regulation*" http://www.multichannel.com/news-article/broadband-presidential-policies-primer/133562 Fahd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Thu Sep 20 04:21:31 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 11:21:31 +0300 Subject: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos Message-ID: <505AD20B.8030308@gmail.com> USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos * View * What links here Submitted by James Love on 18. September 2012 - 12:32 *Update:* At 5 pm the USPTO called and said that the public access wifi network was using a filter, provided by a contractor, to block "political activist" sites. This filter was not used by the network providing Internet access for the USPTO staff. After our meeting, the USPTO reviewed its policies, and has removed the filter. USPTO says the filter was implemented by a contractor, and no one we talked to at USPTO was aware of who was being blocked. In any event, the filter has been removed. Today I was visiting the USPTO, for a high level meeting on global negotiations on intellectual property and access to medicine. The meeting was held in the Stockholm Room, on the 2nd floor of the USPTO library, at the main USPTO building at 600 Dulany Street, Alexandria, VA. The USPTO also uses these meeting rooms for its Global Intellectual Property Academy (GIPA). The USPTO offers free Wifi for the visitors. But when I tried to login to http://keionline.org, I received this message: Access Denied (content_filter_denied) Your request was denied because this URL contains content that is categorized as: "Political/Activist Groups" which is blocked by USPTO policy. If you believe the categorization is inaccurate, please contact the USPTO Service Desk and request a manual review of the URL. For assistance, contact USPTO OCIO IT Service Desk. (io-proxy4) We checked and found that the USPTO blocks access to a number of groups that have followed SOPA and the TPP intellectual property negotiations, particularly those critical of the USPTO positions on intellectual property issues. Among the NGOs that were blocked were aclu.org, cdt.org, citizen.org, eff.org, healthgap.org, keionline.org and publicknowledge.org. Among the sites NOT BLOCKED were the industry lobby groups BSA, MPPA, RIIA, and PhRMA. The USPTO also selectively blocks certain blogs and new sites, including, for example, dailykos.coms, firedoglake.com, redstate.org, rushlimbaugh.com and talkingpointsmemo.com., Here are examples of what the USPTO blocks, and does not block. *Blocked NGOs* aclu.org cdt.org citizen.org eff.org healthgap.org keionline.org publicknowledge.org *NGOs that are NOT blocked* bsa.org creativecommons.org iipa.com iipi.org ipi.org mpaa.org PhRMA.org pubpat.org RIIA.Org stockholm-network.org *Blocked Blogs and news outlets* dailykos.coms firedoglake.com redstate.org rushlimbaugh.com talkingpointsmemo.com *Blogs and new outlets that are NOT blocked * 71patent.blogspot.com aljazeera.com boingboing.net dailycaller.com democracynow.org drudgereport.com groklaw.net huffingtonpost.com ip-watch.org itcblog.com lessig.org michaelgeist.ca nationalreview.com spicyipindia.blogspot.com techdirt.com washingtonmonthly.com * James Love's blog * Add new comment * Printer-friendly version * Send by email Cause of foul up Submitted by Anonymous dude or dudess on 19. September 2012 - 12:02. 'Ex-Patent Examiner here. If this was anything other than a contractor foul-up, I'll eat my hat. There were a dozen instances where I'd need to call the help desk to access a website that would enable me to do my job.' If true, this means no one at USPTO tried to access those sites and asked for the filter to be removed since it was implemented. * reply -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Thu Sep 20 06:02:03 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 22:02:03 +1200 Subject: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos In-Reply-To: <505AD20B.8030308@gmail.com> References: <505AD20B.8030308@gmail.com> Message-ID: If what is reported is legitimate, we are in for some troubling times ahead of us. :( :(:( Sala On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:21 PM, Riaz K Tayob wrote: > USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, > ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos > > - View > - What links here > > Submitted by James Love on 18. September 2012 - 12:32 > > *Update:* At 5 pm the USPTO called and said that the public access wifi > network was using a filter, provided by a contractor, to block "political > activist" sites. This filter was not used by the network providing Internet > access for the USPTO staff. After our meeting, the USPTO reviewed its > policies, and has removed the filter. USPTO says the filter was implemented > by a contractor, and no one we talked to at USPTO was aware of who was > being blocked. In any event, the filter has been removed. > > Today I was visiting the USPTO, for a high level meeting on global > negotiations on intellectual property and access to medicine. The meeting > was held in the Stockholm Room, on the 2nd floor of the USPTO library, at > the main USPTO building at 600 Dulany Street, Alexandria, VA. The USPTO > also uses these meeting rooms for its Global Intellectual Property Academy > (GIPA). The USPTO offers free Wifi for the visitors. But when I tried to > login to http://keionline.org, I received this message: > > Access Denied (content_filter_denied) > > Your request was denied because this URL contains content that is > categorized as: "Political/Activist Groups" which is blocked by USPTO > policy. If you believe the categorization is inaccurate, please contact the > USPTO Service Desk and request a manual review of the URL. > > For assistance, contact USPTO OCIO IT Service Desk. (io-proxy4) > > We checked and found that the USPTO blocks access to a number of groups > that have followed SOPA and the TPP intellectual property negotiations, > particularly those critical of the USPTO positions on intellectual property > issues. Among the NGOs that were blocked were aclu.org, cdt.org, > citizen.org, eff.org, healthgap.org, keionline.org and publicknowledge.org. > Among the sites NOT BLOCKED were the industry lobby groups BSA, MPPA, RIIA, > and PhRMA. > > The USPTO also selectively blocks certain blogs and new sites, including, > for example, dailykos.coms, firedoglake.com, redstate.org, > rushlimbaugh.com and talkingpointsmemo.com., > > Here are examples of what the USPTO blocks, and does not block. > *Blocked NGOs* aclu.org > cdt.org > citizen.org > eff.org > healthgap.org > keionline.org > publicknowledge.org *NGOs that are NOT blocked* bsa.org > creativecommons.org > iipa.com > iipi.org > ipi.org > mpaa.org > PhRMA.org > pubpat.org > RIIA.Org > stockholm-network.org *Blocked Blogs and news outlets* dailykos.coms > firedoglake.com > redstate.org > rushlimbaugh.com > talkingpointsmemo.com *Blogs and new outlets that are NOT blocked * > 71patent.blogspot.com > aljazeera.com > boingboing.net > dailycaller.com > democracynow.org > drudgereport.com > groklaw.net > huffingtonpost.com > ip-watch.org > itcblog.com > lessig.org > michaelgeist.ca > nationalreview.com > spicyipindia.blogspot.com > techdirt.com > washingtonmonthly.com > > - James Love's blog > - Add new comment > - Printer-friendly version > - Send by email > > Cause of foul up > Submitted by Anonymous dude or dudess on 19. September 2012 - 12:02. > > 'Ex-Patent Examiner here. If this was anything other than a contractor > foul-up, I'll eat my hat. There were a dozen instances where I'd need to > call the help desk to access a website that would enable me to do my job.' > If true, this means no one at USPTO tried to access those sites and asked > for the filter to be removed since it was implemented. > > - reply > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From admin at alkasir.com Thu Sep 20 06:28:41 2012 From: admin at alkasir.com (Walid AL-SAQAF ) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 12:28:41 +0200 Subject: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos In-Reply-To: References: <505AD20B.8030308@gmail.com> Message-ID: Simply, unbelievable! Sincerely, Walid ----------------- Walid Al-Saqaf Founder & Administrator alkasir for mapping and circumventing cyber censorship https://alkasir.com On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 12:02 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > If what is reported is legitimate, we are in for some troubling times > ahead of us. :( :(:( > > Sala > > On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:21 PM, Riaz K Tayob wrote: > >> USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, >> ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos >> >> - View >> - What links here >> >> Submitted by James Love on 18. September 2012 - 12:32 >> >> *Update:* At 5 pm the USPTO called and said that the public access wifi >> network was using a filter, provided by a contractor, to block "political >> activist" sites. This filter was not used by the network providing Internet >> access for the USPTO staff. After our meeting, the USPTO reviewed its >> policies, and has removed the filter. USPTO says the filter was implemented >> by a contractor, and no one we talked to at USPTO was aware of who was >> being blocked. In any event, the filter has been removed. >> >> Today I was visiting the USPTO, for a high level meeting on global >> negotiations on intellectual property and access to medicine. The meeting >> was held in the Stockholm Room, on the 2nd floor of the USPTO library, at >> the main USPTO building at 600 Dulany Street, Alexandria, VA. The USPTO >> also uses these meeting rooms for its Global Intellectual Property Academy >> (GIPA). The USPTO offers free Wifi for the visitors. But when I tried to >> login to http://keionline.org, I received this message: >> >> Access Denied (content_filter_denied) >> >> Your request was denied because this URL contains content that is >> categorized as: "Political/Activist Groups" which is blocked by USPTO >> policy. If you believe the categorization is inaccurate, please contact the >> USPTO Service Desk and request a manual review of the URL. >> >> For assistance, contact USPTO OCIO IT Service Desk. (io-proxy4) >> >> We checked and found that the USPTO blocks access to a number of groups >> that have followed SOPA and the TPP intellectual property negotiations, >> particularly those critical of the USPTO positions on intellectual property >> issues. Among the NGOs that were blocked were aclu.org, cdt.org, >> citizen.org, eff.org, healthgap.org, keionline.org and >> publicknowledge.org. Among the sites NOT BLOCKED were the industry lobby >> groups BSA, MPPA, RIIA, and PhRMA. >> >> The USPTO also selectively blocks certain blogs and new sites, including, >> for example, dailykos.coms, firedoglake.com, redstate.org, >> rushlimbaugh.com and talkingpointsmemo.com., >> >> Here are examples of what the USPTO blocks, and does not block. >> *Blocked NGOs* aclu.org >> cdt.org >> citizen.org >> eff.org >> healthgap.org >> keionline.org >> publicknowledge.org *NGOs that are NOT blocked* bsa.org >> creativecommons.org >> iipa.com >> iipi.org >> ipi.org >> mpaa.org >> PhRMA.org >> pubpat.org >> RIIA.Org >> stockholm-network.org *Blocked Blogs and news outlets* dailykos.coms >> firedoglake.com >> redstate.org >> rushlimbaugh.com >> talkingpointsmemo.com *Blogs and new outlets that are NOT blocked * >> 71patent.blogspot.com >> aljazeera.com >> boingboing.net >> dailycaller.com >> democracynow.org >> drudgereport.com >> groklaw.net >> huffingtonpost.com >> ip-watch.org >> itcblog.com >> lessig.org >> michaelgeist.ca >> nationalreview.com >> spicyipindia.blogspot.com >> techdirt.com >> washingtonmonthly.com >> >> - James Love's blog >> - Add new comment >> - Printer-friendly version >> - Send by email >> >> Cause of foul up >> Submitted by Anonymous dude or dudess on 19. September 2012 - 12:02. >> >> 'Ex-Patent Examiner here. If this was anything other than a contractor >> foul-up, I'll eat my hat. There were a dozen instances where I'd need to >> call the help desk to access a website that would enable me to do my job.' >> If true, this means no one at USPTO tried to access those sites and asked >> for the filter to be removed since it was implemented. >> >> - reply >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Thu Sep 20 08:17:22 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz Tayob) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 15:17:22 +0300 Subject: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos In-Reply-To: References: <505AD20B.8030308@gmail.com> Message-ID: I have not reason to doubt the reports put out by KEI / James Love... On 20 September 2012 13:02, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > If what is reported is legitimate, we are in for some troubling times > ahead of us. :( :(:( > > Sala > > On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:21 PM, Riaz K Tayob wrote: > >> USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, >> ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos >> >> - View >> - What links here >> >> Submitted by James Love on 18. September 2012 - 12:32 >> >> *Update:* At 5 pm the USPTO called and said that the public access wifi >> network was using a filter, provided by a contractor, to block "political >> activist" sites. This filter was not used by the network providing Internet >> access for the USPTO staff. After our meeting, the USPTO reviewed its >> policies, and has removed the filter. USPTO says the filter was implemented >> by a contractor, and no one we talked to at USPTO was aware of who was >> being blocked. In any event, the filter has been removed. >> >> Today I was visiting the USPTO, for a high level meeting on global >> negotiations on intellectual property and access to medicine. The meeting >> was held in the Stockholm Room, on the 2nd floor of the USPTO library, at >> the main USPTO building at 600 Dulany Street, Alexandria, VA. The USPTO >> also uses these meeting rooms for its Global Intellectual Property Academy >> (GIPA). The USPTO offers free Wifi for the visitors. But when I tried to >> login to http://keionline.org, I received this message: >> >> Access Denied (content_filter_denied) >> >> Your request was denied because this URL contains content that is >> categorized as: "Political/Activist Groups" which is blocked by USPTO >> policy. If you believe the categorization is inaccurate, please contact the >> USPTO Service Desk and request a manual review of the URL. >> >> For assistance, contact USPTO OCIO IT Service Desk. (io-proxy4) >> >> We checked and found that the USPTO blocks access to a number of groups >> that have followed SOPA and the TPP intellectual property negotiations, >> particularly those critical of the USPTO positions on intellectual property >> issues. Among the NGOs that were blocked were aclu.org, cdt.org, >> citizen.org, eff.org, healthgap.org, keionline.org and >> publicknowledge.org. Among the sites NOT BLOCKED were the industry lobby >> groups BSA, MPPA, RIIA, and PhRMA. >> >> The USPTO also selectively blocks certain blogs and new sites, including, >> for example, dailykos.coms, firedoglake.com, redstate.org, >> rushlimbaugh.com and talkingpointsmemo.com., >> >> Here are examples of what the USPTO blocks, and does not block. >> *Blocked NGOs* aclu.org >> cdt.org >> citizen.org >> eff.org >> healthgap.org >> keionline.org >> publicknowledge.org *NGOs that are NOT blocked* bsa.org >> creativecommons.org >> iipa.com >> iipi.org >> ipi.org >> mpaa.org >> PhRMA.org >> pubpat.org >> RIIA.Org >> stockholm-network.org *Blocked Blogs and news outlets* dailykos.coms >> firedoglake.com >> redstate.org >> rushlimbaugh.com >> talkingpointsmemo.com *Blogs and new outlets that are NOT blocked * >> 71patent.blogspot.com >> aljazeera.com >> boingboing.net >> dailycaller.com >> democracynow.org >> drudgereport.com >> groklaw.net >> huffingtonpost.com >> ip-watch.org >> itcblog.com >> lessig.org >> michaelgeist.ca >> nationalreview.com >> spicyipindia.blogspot.com >> techdirt.com >> washingtonmonthly.com >> >> - James Love's blog >> - Add new comment >> - Printer-friendly version >> - Send by email >> >> Cause of foul up >> Submitted by Anonymous dude or dudess on 19. September 2012 - 12:02. >> >> 'Ex-Patent Examiner here. If this was anything other than a contractor >> foul-up, I'll eat my hat. There were a dozen instances where I'd need to >> call the help desk to access a website that would enable me to do my job.' >> If true, this means no one at USPTO tried to access those sites and asked >> for the filter to be removed since it was implemented. >> >> - reply >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From apisan at unam.mx Thu Sep 20 10:09:01 2012 From: apisan at unam.mx (Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 14:09:01 +0000 Subject: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos In-Reply-To: References: <505AD20B.8030308@gmail.com>, Message-ID: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D48408998@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> Sala, any knowledge of corporate IT will tell you that this is a pretty standard filter used in private as well as public offices. Usually installed by third parties who set up the networks or even run them, or accessed by IT at third-party sites. As Jamie Love writes as well, the filter was removed upon request. It is the same type of filter that would have caused some hotel reservation sites to be blocked "for sexual content." Clues... they used to be more widely available. Alejandro Pisanty ! !! !!! !!!! NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475 Dr. Alejandro Pisanty UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ________________________________ Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro [salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com] Enviado el: jueves, 20 de septiembre de 2012 05:02 Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Riaz K Tayob Asunto: Re: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos If what is reported is legitimate, we are in for some troubling times ahead of us. :( :(:( Sala On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:21 PM, Riaz K Tayob > wrote: USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos * View * What links here Submitted by James Love on 18. September 2012 - 12:32 Update: At 5 pm the USPTO called and said that the public access wifi network was using a filter, provided by a contractor, to block "political activist" sites. This filter was not used by the network providing Internet access for the USPTO staff. After our meeting, the USPTO reviewed its policies, and has removed the filter. USPTO says the filter was implemented by a contractor, and no one we talked to at USPTO was aware of who was being blocked. In any event, the filter has been removed. Today I was visiting the USPTO, for a high level meeting on global negotiations on intellectual property and access to medicine. The meeting was held in the Stockholm Room, on the 2nd floor of the USPTO library, at the main USPTO building at 600 Dulany Street, Alexandria, VA. The USPTO also uses these meeting rooms for its Global Intellectual Property Academy (GIPA). The USPTO offers free Wifi for the visitors. But when I tried to login to http://keionline.org, I received this message: Access Denied (content_filter_denied) Your request was denied because this URL contains content that is categorized as: "Political/Activist Groups" which is blocked by USPTO policy. If you believe the categorization is inaccurate, please contact the USPTO Service Desk and request a manual review of the URL. For assistance, contact USPTO OCIO IT Service Desk. (io-proxy4) We checked and found that the USPTO blocks access to a number of groups that have followed SOPA and the TPP intellectual property negotiations, particularly those critical of the USPTO positions on intellectual property issues. Among the NGOs that were blocked were aclu.org, cdt.org, citizen.org, eff.org, healthgap.org, keionline.org and publicknowledge.org. Among the sites NOT BLOCKED were the industry lobby groups BSA, MPPA, RIIA, and PhRMA. The USPTO also selectively blocks certain blogs and new sites, including, for example, dailykos.coms, firedoglake.com, redstate.org, rushlimbaugh.com and talkingpointsmemo.com., Here are examples of what the USPTO blocks, and does not block. Blocked NGOs aclu.org cdt.org citizen.org eff.org healthgap.org keionline.org publicknowledge.org NGOs that are NOT blocked bsa.org creativecommons.org iipa.com iipi.org ipi.org mpaa.org PhRMA.org pubpat.org RIIA.Org stockholm-network.org Blocked Blogs and news outlets dailykos.coms firedoglake.com redstate.org rushlimbaugh.com talkingpointsmemo.com Blogs and new outlets that are NOT blocked 71patent.blogspot.com aljazeera.com boingboing.net dailycaller.com democracynow.org drudgereport.com groklaw.net huffingtonpost.com ip-watch.org itcblog.com lessig.org michaelgeist.ca nationalreview.com spicyipindia.blogspot.com techdirt.com washingtonmonthly.com * James Love's blog * Add new comment * Printer-friendly version * Send by email Cause of foul up Submitted by Anonymous dude or dudess on 19. September 2012 - 12:02. 'Ex-Patent Examiner here. If this was anything other than a contractor foul-up, I'll eat my hat. There were a dozen instances where I'd need to call the help desk to access a website that would enable me to do my job.' If true, this means no one at USPTO tried to access those sites and asked for the filter to be removed since it was implemented. * reply ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From anupamagrawal.in at gmail.com Thu Sep 20 11:58:30 2012 From: anupamagrawal.in at gmail.com (Anupam Agrawal) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 21:28:30 +0530 Subject: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos In-Reply-To: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D48408998@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> References: <505AD20B.8030308@gmail.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D48408998@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> Message-ID: Hi All, I would agree with the observation of Alejandro. That's indeed the case in my organisation (TCS) as well where in the standard filters at times block the genuine sites. The process is then simple, inform the email I'd given in the error message with a business case for opening it. Infact my observation is that most of the people in corporate world take it on as is basis and don't report back. Regards Anupam Agrawal On 20-Sep-2012, at 7:39 PM, "Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch" wrote: > Sala, > > any knowledge of corporate IT will tell you that this is a pretty standard filter used in private as well as public offices. Usually installed by third parties who set up the networks or even run them, or accessed by IT at third-party sites. As Jamie Love writes as well, the filter was removed upon request. It is the same type of filter that would have caused some hotel reservation sites to be blocked "for sexual content." > > Clues... they used to be more widely available. > > Alejandro Pisanty > > > ! !! !!! !!!! > NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO > > > +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD > > +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO > > SMS +525541444475 > Dr. Alejandro Pisanty > UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico > > Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty > Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 > Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty > ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro [salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com] > Enviado el: jueves, 20 de septiembre de 2012 05:02 > Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Riaz K Tayob > Asunto: Re: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos > > If what is reported is legitimate, we are in for some troubling times ahead of us. :( :(:( > > Sala > > On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:21 PM, Riaz K Tayob wrote: > USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos > > View > What links here > Submitted by James Love on 18. September 2012 - 12:32 > Update: At 5 pm the USPTO called and said that the public access wifi network was using a filter, provided by a contractor, to block "political activist" sites. This filter was not used by the network providing Internet access for the USPTO staff. After our meeting, the USPTO reviewed its policies, and has removed the filter. USPTO says the filter was implemented by a contractor, and no one we talked to at USPTO was aware of who was being blocked. In any event, the filter has been removed. > Today I was visiting the USPTO, for a high level meeting on global negotiations on intellectual property and access to medicine. The meeting was held in the Stockholm Room, on the 2nd floor of the USPTO library, at the main USPTO building at 600 Dulany Street, Alexandria, VA. The USPTO also uses these meeting rooms for its Global Intellectual Property Academy (GIPA). The USPTO offers free Wifi for the visitors. But when I tried to login to http://keionline.org, I received this message: > > Access Denied (content_filter_denied) > Your request was denied because this URL contains content that is categorized as: "Political/Activist Groups" which is blocked by USPTO policy. If you believe the categorization is inaccurate, please contact the USPTO Service Desk and request a manual review of the URL. > > For assistance, contact USPTO OCIO IT Service Desk. (io-proxy4) > > We checked and found that the USPTO blocks access to a number of groups that have followed SOPA and the TPP intellectual property negotiations, particularly those critical of the USPTO positions on intellectual property issues. Among the NGOs that were blocked were aclu.org, cdt.org, citizen.org, eff.org, healthgap.org, keionline.org and publicknowledge.org. Among the sites NOT BLOCKED were the industry lobby groups BSA, MPPA, RIIA, and PhRMA. > > The USPTO also selectively blocks certain blogs and new sites, including, for example, dailykos.coms, firedoglake.com, redstate.org, rushlimbaugh.com and talkingpointsmemo.com., > > Here are examples of what the USPTO blocks, and does not block. > > Blocked NGOs aclu.org > cdt.org > citizen.org > eff.org > healthgap.org > keionline.org > publicknowledge.org > NGOs that are NOT blocked bsa.org > creativecommons.org > iipa.com > iipi.org > ipi.org > mpaa.org > PhRMA.org > pubpat.org > RIIA.Org > stockholm-network.org > Blocked Blogs and news outlets dailykos.coms > firedoglake.com > redstate.org > rushlimbaugh.com > talkingpointsmemo.com > Blogs and new outlets that are NOT blocked 71patent.blogspot.com > aljazeera.com > boingboing.net > dailycaller.com > democracynow.org > drudgereport.com > groklaw.net > huffingtonpost.com > ip-watch.org > itcblog.com > lessig.org > michaelgeist.ca > nationalreview.com > spicyipindia.blogspot.com > techdirt.com > washingtonmonthly.com > James Love's blog > Add new comment > Printer-friendly version > Send by email > Cause of foul up > > Submitted by Anonymous dude or dudess on 19. September 2012 - 12:02. > 'Ex-Patent Examiner here. If this was anything other than a contractor foul-up, I'll eat my hat. There were a dozen instances where I'd need to call the help desk to access a website that would enable me to do my job.' If true, this means no one at USPTO tried to access those sites and asked for the filter to be removed since it was implemented. > > reply > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From jstyre at jstyre.com Thu Sep 20 12:34:19 2012 From: jstyre at jstyre.com (James S. Tyre) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 09:34:19 -0700 Subject: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos In-Reply-To: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D48408998@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> References: <505AD20B.8030308@gmail.com>, <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D48408998@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> Message-ID: <010a01cd974d$c9ea1690$5dbe43b0$@jstyre.com> Alejandro, It isn’t really that simple at all. Before I begin, however, let me state two things. First, I do not question that PTO turned the thing off shortly after becoming aware of it. Second, I assume that you’re not aware of some of the relevant facts and law, rather than that you’re ignoring them. PTO is a US government agency. A government agency as employer is not held to the same First Amendment restrictions as a government agency as government, but, unlike private sector employers, the government as employer is subject to some First Amendment restrictions. This particular filter was not in any way supposed to be similar to what is seen in corporate IT. It’s specific purpose, it’s only purpose, was to block access to terrorist sites and similar. (Some of that is required by US law, whether that’s a good or bad law is not something I plan on discussing here.) How any of the blacklisted sites could be found to be terrorist sites is incomprehensible. This was never supposed to be a pretty standard filter. Incidentally, the filter is the handiwork of Blue Coat, which did such a marvelous job of promoting free expression on the Internet in Syria, among other places, see, e.g., https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/10/blue-coat-acknowledges-syrian-government-use-its-pro ducts -- James S. Tyre Law Offices of James S. Tyre 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) jstyre at jstyre.com Policy Fellow, Electronic Frontier Foundation https://www.eff.org From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 7:09 AM To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro; Riaz K Tayob Subject: RE: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos Sala, any knowledge of corporate IT will tell you that this is a pretty standard filter used in private as well as public offices. Usually installed by third parties who set up the networks or even run them, or accessed by IT at third-party sites. As Jamie Love writes as well, the filter was removed upon request. It is the same type of filter that would have caused some hotel reservation sites to be blocked "for sexual content." Clues... they used to be more widely available. Alejandro Pisanty ! !! !!! !!!! NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475 Dr. Alejandro Pisanty UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . _____ Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro [salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com] Enviado el: jueves, 20 de septiembre de 2012 05:02 Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Riaz K Tayob Asunto: Re: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos If what is reported is legitimate, we are in for some troubling times ahead of us. :( :(:( Sala On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:21 PM, Riaz K Tayob wrote: USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos * View * What links here Submitted by James Love on 18. September 2012 - 12:32 Update: At 5 pm the USPTO called and said that the public access wifi network was using a filter, provided by a contractor, to block "political activist" sites. This filter was not used by the network providing Internet access for the USPTO staff. After our meeting, the USPTO reviewed its policies, and has removed the filter. USPTO says the filter was implemented by a contractor, and no one we talked to at USPTO was aware of who was being blocked. In any event, the filter has been removed. Today I was visiting the USPTO, for a high level meeting on global negotiations on intellectual property and access to medicine. The meeting was held in the Stockholm Room, on the 2nd floor of the USPTO library, at the main USPTO building at 600 Dulany Street, Alexandria, VA. The USPTO also uses these meeting rooms for its Global Intellectual Property Academy (GIPA). The USPTO offers free Wifi for the visitors. But when I tried to login to http://keionline.org, I received this message: Access Denied (content_filter_denied) Your request was denied because this URL contains content that is categorized as: "Political/Activist Groups" which is blocked by USPTO policy. If you believe the categorization is inaccurate, please contact the USPTO Service Desk and request a manual review of the URL. For assistance, contact USPTO OCIO IT Service Desk. (io-proxy4) We checked and found that the USPTO blocks access to a number of groups that have followed SOPA and the TPP intellectual property negotiations, particularly those critical of the USPTO positions on intellectual property issues. Among the NGOs that were blocked were aclu.org, cdt.org, citizen.org, eff.org, healthgap.org, keionline.org and publicknowledge.org. Among the sites NOT BLOCKED were the industry lobby groups BSA, MPPA, RIIA, and PhRMA. The USPTO also selectively blocks certain blogs and new sites, including, for example, dailykos.coms, firedoglake.com, redstate.org, rushlimbaugh.com and talkingpointsmemo.com., Here are examples of what the USPTO blocks, and does not block. Blocked NGOs aclu.org cdt.org citizen.org eff.org healthgap.org keionline.org publicknowledge.org NGOs that are NOT blocked bsa.org creativecommons.org iipa.com iipi.org ipi.org mpaa.org PhRMA.org pubpat.org RIIA.Org stockholm-network.org Blocked Blogs and news outlets dailykos.coms firedoglake.com redstate.org rushlimbaugh.com talkingpointsmemo.com Blogs and new outlets that are NOT blocked 71patent.blogspot.com aljazeera.com boingboing.net dailycaller.com democracynow.org drudgereport.com groklaw.net huffingtonpost.com ip-watch.org itcblog.com lessig.org michaelgeist.ca nationalreview.com spicyipindia.blogspot.com techdirt.com washingtonmonthly.com * James Love's blog * Add new comment * Printer-friendly version * Send by email Cause of foul up Submitted by Anonymous dude or dudess on 19. September 2012 - 12:02. 'Ex-Patent Examiner here. If this was anything other than a contractor foul-up, I'll eat my hat. There were a dozen instances where I'd need to call the help desk to access a website that would enable me to do my job.' If true, this means no one at USPTO tried to access those sites and asked for the filter to be removed since it was implemented. * reply ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From apisan at unam.mx Thu Sep 20 13:00:24 2012 From: apisan at unam.mx (Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 17:00:24 +0000 Subject: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos In-Reply-To: <010a01cd974d$c9ea1690$5dbe43b0$@jstyre.com> References: <505AD20B.8030308@gmail.com>, <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D48408998@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local>,<010a01cd974d$c9ea1690$5dbe43b0$@jstyre.com> Message-ID: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D48408C30@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> Jim, thanks - I still see IT SOP gone wild but am in no position to test or contest. Guess I'll see pics of you and Jamie picketing (this IS a local, not global, issue, right?) Yours, Alejandro Pisanty ! !! !!! !!!! NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475 Dr. Alejandro Pisanty UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ________________________________ Desde: James S. Tyre [jstyre at jstyre.com] Enviado el: jueves, 20 de septiembre de 2012 11:34 Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch; 'Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro'; 'Riaz K Tayob' Asunto: RE: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos Alejandro, It isn’t really that simple at all. Before I begin, however, let me state two things. First, I do not question that PTO turned the thing off shortly after becoming aware of it. Second, I assume that you’re not aware of some of the relevant facts and law, rather than that you’re ignoring them. PTO is a US government agency. A government agency as employer is not held to the same First Amendment restrictions as a government agency as government, but, unlike private sector employers, the government as employer is subject to some First Amendment restrictions. This particular filter was not in any way supposed to be similar to what is seen in corporate IT. It’s specific purpose, it’s only purpose, was to block access to terrorist sites and similar. (Some of that is required by US law, whether that’s a good or bad law is not something I plan on discussing here.) How any of the blacklisted sites could be found to be terrorist sites is incomprehensible. This was never supposed to be a pretty standard filter. Incidentally, the filter is the handiwork of Blue Coat, which did such a marvelous job of promoting free expression on the Internet in Syria, among other places, see, e.g., https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/10/blue-coat-acknowledges-syrian-government-use-its-products -- James S. Tyre Law Offices of James S. Tyre 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) jstyre at jstyre.com Policy Fellow, Electronic Frontier Foundation https://www.eff.org From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 7:09 AM To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro; Riaz K Tayob Subject: RE: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos Sala, any knowledge of corporate IT will tell you that this is a pretty standard filter used in private as well as public offices. Usually installed by third parties who set up the networks or even run them, or accessed by IT at third-party sites. As Jamie Love writes as well, the filter was removed upon request. It is the same type of filter that would have caused some hotel reservation sites to be blocked "for sexual content." Clues... they used to be more widely available. Alejandro Pisanty ! !! !!! !!!! NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475 Dr. Alejandro Pisanty UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ________________________________ Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro [salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com] Enviado el: jueves, 20 de septiembre de 2012 05:02 Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Riaz K Tayob Asunto: Re: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos If what is reported is legitimate, we are in for some troubling times ahead of us. :( :(:( Sala On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:21 PM, Riaz K Tayob > wrote: USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos * View * What links here Submitted by James Love on 18. September 2012 - 12:32 Update: At 5 pm the USPTO called and said that the public access wifi network was using a filter, provided by a contractor, to block "political activist" sites. This filter was not used by the network providing Internet access for the USPTO staff. After our meeting, the USPTO reviewed its policies, and has removed the filter. USPTO says the filter was implemented by a contractor, and no one we talked to at USPTO was aware of who was being blocked. In any event, the filter has been removed. Today I was visiting the USPTO, for a high level meeting on global negotiations on intellectual property and access to medicine. The meeting was held in the Stockholm Room, on the 2nd floor of the USPTO library, at the main USPTO building at 600 Dulany Street, Alexandria, VA. The USPTO also uses these meeting rooms for its Global Intellectual Property Academy (GIPA). The USPTO offers free Wifi for the visitors. But when I tried to login to http://keionline.org, I received this message: Access Denied (content_filter_denied) Your request was denied because this URL contains content that is categorized as: "Political/Activist Groups" which is blocked by USPTO policy. If you believe the categorization is inaccurate, please contact the USPTO Service Desk and request a manual review of the URL. For assistance, contact USPTO OCIO IT Service Desk. (io-proxy4) We checked and found that the USPTO blocks access to a number of groups that have followed SOPA and the TPP intellectual property negotiations, particularly those critical of the USPTO positions on intellectual property issues. Among the NGOs that were blocked were aclu.org, cdt.org, citizen.org, eff.org, healthgap.org, keionline.org and publicknowledge.org. Among the sites NOT BLOCKED were the industry lobby groups BSA, MPPA, RIIA, and PhRMA. The USPTO also selectively blocks certain blogs and new sites, including, for example, dailykos.coms, firedoglake.com, redstate.org, rushlimbaugh.com and talkingpointsmemo.com., Here are examples of what the USPTO blocks, and does not block. Blocked NGOs aclu.org cdt.org citizen.org eff.org healthgap.org keionline.org publicknowledge.org NGOs that are NOT blocked bsa.org creativecommons.org iipa.com iipi.org ipi.org mpaa.org PhRMA.org pubpat.org RIIA.Org stockholm-network.org Blocked Blogs and news outlets dailykos.coms firedoglake.com redstate.org rushlimbaugh.com talkingpointsmemo.com Blogs and new outlets that are NOT blocked 71patent.blogspot.com aljazeera.com boingboing.net dailycaller.com democracynow.org drudgereport.com groklaw.net huffingtonpost.com ip-watch.org itcblog.com lessig.org michaelgeist.ca nationalreview.com spicyipindia.blogspot.com techdirt.com washingtonmonthly.com * James Love's blog * Add new comment * Printer-friendly version * Send by email Cause of foul up Submitted by Anonymous dude or dudess on 19. September 2012 - 12:02. 'Ex-Patent Examiner here. If this was anything other than a contractor foul-up, I'll eat my hat. There were a dozen instances where I'd need to call the help desk to access a website that would enable me to do my job.' If true, this means no one at USPTO tried to access those sites and asked for the filter to be removed since it was implemented. * reply ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From jstyre at jstyre.com Thu Sep 20 13:17:49 2012 From: jstyre at jstyre.com (James S. Tyre) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 10:17:49 -0700 Subject: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos In-Reply-To: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D48408C30@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> References: <505AD20B.8030308@gmail.com>, <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D48408998@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local>,<010a01cd974d$c9ea1690$5dbe43b0$@jstyre.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D48408C30@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> Message-ID: <015d01cd9753$dc75a670$9560f350$@jstyre.com> No, I don’t think you’ll see pics of me picketing at PTO. Jamie is based in DC, he can just walk over. But using a point of reference that you’ll appreciate, I’m about 7 minutes away from ICANN’s old MdR office (and about the same from the new one, though I’ve not been to it). I’m not nearly so lathered up about this that I’m planning on flying cross-country to picket. ‘-) More seriously, I don’t see this as a global issue. But I didn’t start this thread, I’m pretty new to this list, and I’m not sure I have a good understanding of what IGC considers to be local v. global. -Jim -- James S. Tyre Law Offices of James S. Tyre 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) jstyre at jstyre.com Policy Fellow, Electronic Frontier Foundation https://www.eff.org From: Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch [mailto:apisan at unam.mx] Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 10:00 AM To: James S. Tyre; governance at lists.igcaucus.org; 'Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro'; 'Riaz K Tayob' Subject: RE: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos Jim, thanks - I still see IT SOP gone wild but am in no position to test or contest. Guess I'll see pics of you and Jamie picketing (this IS a local, not global, issue, right?) Yours, Alejandro Pisanty ! !! !!! !!!! NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475 Dr. Alejandro Pisanty UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . _____ Desde: James S. Tyre [jstyre at jstyre.com] Enviado el: jueves, 20 de septiembre de 2012 11:34 Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch; 'Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro'; 'Riaz K Tayob' Asunto: RE: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos Alejandro, It isn’t really that simple at all. Before I begin, however, let me state two things. First, I do not question that PTO turned the thing off shortly after becoming aware of it. Second, I assume that you’re not aware of some of the relevant facts and law, rather than that you’re ignoring them. PTO is a US government agency. A government agency as employer is not held to the same First Amendment restrictions as a government agency as government, but, unlike private sector employers, the government as employer is subject to some First Amendment restrictions. This particular filter was not in any way supposed to be similar to what is seen in corporate IT. It’s specific purpose, it’s only purpose, was to block access to terrorist sites and similar. (Some of that is required by US law, whether that’s a good or bad law is not something I plan on discussing here.) How any of the blacklisted sites could be found to be terrorist sites is incomprehensible. This was never supposed to be a pretty standard filter. Incidentally, the filter is the handiwork of Blue Coat, which did such a marvelous job of promoting free expression on the Internet in Syria, among other places, see, e.g., https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/10/blue-coat-acknowledges-syrian-government-use-its-pro ducts -- James S. Tyre Law Offices of James S. Tyre 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) jstyre at jstyre.com Policy Fellow, Electronic Frontier Foundation https://www.eff.org From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 7:09 AM To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro; Riaz K Tayob Subject: RE: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos Sala, any knowledge of corporate IT will tell you that this is a pretty standard filter used in private as well as public offices. Usually installed by third parties who set up the networks or even run them, or accessed by IT at third-party sites. As Jamie Love writes as well, the filter was removed upon request. It is the same type of filter that would have caused some hotel reservation sites to be blocked "for sexual content." Clues... they used to be more widely available. Alejandro Pisanty ! !! !!! !!!! NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475 Dr. Alejandro Pisanty UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . _____ Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro [salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com] Enviado el: jueves, 20 de septiembre de 2012 05:02 Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Riaz K Tayob Asunto: Re: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos If what is reported is legitimate, we are in for some troubling times ahead of us. :( :(:( Sala On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:21 PM, Riaz K Tayob wrote: USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos * View * What links here Submitted by James Love on 18. September 2012 - 12:32 Update: At 5 pm the USPTO called and said that the public access wifi network was using a filter, provided by a contractor, to block "political activist" sites. This filter was not used by the network providing Internet access for the USPTO staff. After our meeting, the USPTO reviewed its policies, and has removed the filter. USPTO says the filter was implemented by a contractor, and no one we talked to at USPTO was aware of who was being blocked. In any event, the filter has been removed. Today I was visiting the USPTO, for a high level meeting on global negotiations on intellectual property and access to medicine. The meeting was held in the Stockholm Room, on the 2nd floor of the USPTO library, at the main USPTO building at 600 Dulany Street, Alexandria, VA. The USPTO also uses these meeting rooms for its Global Intellectual Property Academy (GIPA). The USPTO offers free Wifi for the visitors. But when I tried to login to http://keionline.org, I received this message: Access Denied (content_filter_denied) Your request was denied because this URL contains content that is categorized as: "Political/Activist Groups" which is blocked by USPTO policy. If you believe the categorization is inaccurate, please contact the USPTO Service Desk and request a manual review of the URL. For assistance, contact USPTO OCIO IT Service Desk. (io-proxy4) We checked and found that the USPTO blocks access to a number of groups that have followed SOPA and the TPP intellectual property negotiations, particularly those critical of the USPTO positions on intellectual property issues. Among the NGOs that were blocked were aclu.org, cdt.org, citizen.org, eff.org, healthgap.org, keionline.org and publicknowledge.org. Among the sites NOT BLOCKED were the industry lobby groups BSA, MPPA, RIIA, and PhRMA. The USPTO also selectively blocks certain blogs and new sites, including, for example, dailykos.coms, firedoglake.com, redstate.org, rushlimbaugh.com and talkingpointsmemo.com., Here are examples of what the USPTO blocks, and does not block. Blocked NGOs aclu.org cdt.org citizen.org eff.org healthgap.org keionline.org publicknowledge.org NGOs that are NOT blocked bsa.org creativecommons.org iipa.com iipi.org ipi.org mpaa.org PhRMA.org pubpat.org RIIA.Org stockholm-network.org Blocked Blogs and news outlets dailykos.coms firedoglake.com redstate.org rushlimbaugh.com talkingpointsmemo.com Blogs and new outlets that are NOT blocked 71patent.blogspot.com aljazeera.com boingboing.net dailycaller.com democracynow.org drudgereport.com groklaw.net huffingtonpost.com ip-watch.org itcblog.com lessig.org michaelgeist.ca nationalreview.com spicyipindia.blogspot.com techdirt.com washingtonmonthly.com * James Love's blog * Add new comment * Printer-friendly version * Send by email Cause of foul up Submitted by Anonymous dude or dudess on 19. September 2012 - 12:02. 'Ex-Patent Examiner here. If this was anything other than a contractor foul-up, I'll eat my hat. There were a dozen instances where I'd need to call the help desk to access a website that would enable me to do my job.' If true, this means no one at USPTO tried to access those sites and asked for the filter to be removed since it was implemented. * reply ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Thu Sep 20 15:21:39 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 07:21:39 +1200 Subject: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos In-Reply-To: <010a01cd974d$c9ea1690$5dbe43b0$@jstyre.com> References: <505AD20B.8030308@gmail.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D48408998@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> <010a01cd974d$c9ea1690$5dbe43b0$@jstyre.com> Message-ID: Now that I know that James Love's blog has been verified, here are my comments. The scenario that is described as being "local" has "global" implications and I will try to briefly point out why. What we are seeing is only the "tip" of an iceberg which is scary. Alejandro and Anupam make a good point about standard filters and how they are used in private and sometimes public offices. Alejandro mentions the filtering of "sexual content". We all know that Freedom of Expression is not absolute and there are rules. From International Law, we know of the exceptions, they have been regurgitated on the list for a long time. So we know that there are "exceptions" but what often does not get talked about is the abuse of these exceptions. James in his email pointed us to some of the relevant facts. Primarily where filtering goes "beyond" the scope of what it was intended to which was to block "access to terrorist sites". Last year, the European Court of Justice (ECJ) ruled that EU law precludes the imposition of an injunction by a national court which requires an Internet Service Provider (ISP) to install a filtering system with a view to preventing the illegal downloading of files. Revisit the Press Release: http://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2011-11/ The actual Judgement was released on the 24th November, 2011 and is available here: http://curia.europa.eu/jurisp/cgi-bin/form.pl?lang=EN&Submit=Submit&numaff=C-70/10 What was interesting about the Judgement was in relation to how they dealt with the prioritisation of rights, that is the rights if intellectual property owners, the rights of ISPs to conduct their business freely, the freedom to receive and impart information and the rights of consumers to privacy. "The injunction requiring installation of the contested filtering system involve a systematic analysis of all content, and the collection and identification of users' IP addresses from which unlawful content on the network is sent. Those addresses are protected personal data because they allow those users to be precisely identified". The consideration in how the Judges arrived at their decision is on [para 52, 53] where there is no guarantee that lawful content would not be blocked. After considering all the rights stemming from the Directives listed in para 55, the courts held in favour of "privacy" of consumers that is fundamental rights trumping when reading all of the Directives together. Although the European Court of Justice recommended that harmonization take place. The world revolted against SOPA, we lobbied against both SOPA and ACTA and there were countries who rejected them. However, it is no secret that the US is pro- Intellectual Property Rights protection. The same US Department of Commerce that is in charge of IANA is in charge of US PTO. Its actions whether a genuine mistake or otherwise have global ramifications. Don't get me wrong, I am not against the US, I quite love the country and have great respect for its governance systems and the rule of law etc. If anything we can see that the clear abuse of the exceptions is something happening globally and sadly it is something that does not get discussed all too often which is why absolutely loved the Freedom Online conference that took place in Nairobi of late. On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 4:34 AM, James S. Tyre wrote: > Alejandro,**** > > ** ** > > It isn’t really that simple at all. Before I begin, however, let me state > two things. First, I do not question that PTO turned the thing off shortly > after becoming aware of it. Second, I assume that you’re not aware of some > of the relevant facts and law, rather than that you’re ignoring them.**** > > ** ** > > PTO is a US government agency. A government agency as employer is not > held to the same First Amendment restrictions as a government agency as > government, but, unlike private sector employers, the government as > employer is subject to some First Amendment restrictions.**** > > ** ** > > This particular filter was not in any way supposed to be similar to what > is seen in corporate IT. It’s specific purpose, it’s only purpose, was to > block access to terrorist sites and similar. (Some of that is required by > US law, whether that’s a good or bad law is not something I plan on > discussing here.) How any of the blacklisted sites could be found to be > terrorist sites is incomprehensible. This was never supposed to be a > pretty standard filter.**** > > ** ** > > Incidentally, the filter is the handiwork of Blue Coat, which did such a > marvelous job of promoting free expression on the Internet in Syria, among > other places, see, e.g., > https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/10/blue-coat-acknowledges-syrian-government-use-its-products > **** > > ** > Interesting times ahead. > ** > > --**** > > James S. Tyre**** > > Law Offices of James S. Tyre**** > > 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512**** > > Culver City, CA 90230-4969**** > > 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax)**** > > jstyre at jstyre.com**** > > Policy Fellow, Electronic Frontier Foundation**** > > https://www.eff.org**** > > ** ** > > *From:* governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto: > governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] *On Behalf Of *Dr. Alejandro > Pisanty Baruch > *Sent:* Thursday, September 20, 2012 7:09 AM > *To:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro; Riaz > K Tayob > *Subject:* RE: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to > "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, > Redstate, DailyKos**** > > ** ** > > Sala, **** > > ** ** > > any knowledge of corporate IT will tell you that this is a pretty standard > filter used in private as well as public offices. Usually installed by > third parties who set up the networks or even run them, or accessed by IT > at third-party sites. As Jamie Love writes as well, the filter was removed > upon request. It is the same type of filter that would have caused some > hotel reservation sites to be blocked "for sexual content."**** > > ** ** > > Clues... they used to be more widely available.**** > > ** ** > > Alejandro Pisanty**** > > ** ** > > **** > > ! !! !!! !!!!**** > > NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO**** > > **** > > +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD **** > > +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO **** > > SMS +525541444475 > Dr. Alejandro Pisanty > UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico > > Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty > Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, > http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 > Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty > ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . **** > ------------------------------ > > *Desde:* governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [ > governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Salanieta T. > Tamanikaiwaimaro [salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com] > *Enviado el:* jueves, 20 de septiembre de 2012 05:02 > *Hasta:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Riaz K Tayob > *Asunto:* Re: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist > Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos**** > > If what is reported is legitimate, we are in for some troubling times > ahead of us. :( :(:( **** > > ** ** > > Sala**** > > On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:21 PM, Riaz K Tayob > wrote:**** > *USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, > ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos > * > > - View **** > - What links here **** > > Submitted by James Love on 18. September 2012 - 12:32 **** > > *Update:* At 5 pm the USPTO called and said that the public access wifi > network was using a filter, provided by a contractor, to block "political > activist" sites. This filter was not used by the network providing Internet > access for the USPTO staff. After our meeting, the USPTO reviewed its > policies, and has removed the filter. USPTO says the filter was implemented > by a contractor, and no one we talked to at USPTO was aware of who was > being blocked. In any event, the filter has been removed. **** > > Today I was visiting the USPTO, for a high level meeting on global > negotiations on intellectual property and access to medicine. The meeting > was held in the Stockholm Room, on the 2nd floor of the USPTO library, at > the main USPTO building at 600 Dulany Street, Alexandria, VA. The USPTO > also uses these meeting rooms for its Global Intellectual Property Academy > (GIPA). The USPTO offers free Wifi for the visitors. But when I tried to > login to http://keionline.org, I received this message:**** > > Access Denied (content_filter_denied) **** > > Your request was denied because this URL contains content that is > categorized as: "Political/Activist Groups" which is blocked by USPTO > policy. If you believe the categorization is inaccurate, please contact the > USPTO Service Desk and request a manual review of the URL.**** > > For assistance, contact USPTO OCIO IT Service Desk. (io-proxy4)**** > > We checked and found that the USPTO blocks access to a number of groups > that have followed SOPA and the TPP intellectual property negotiations, > particularly those critical of the USPTO positions on intellectual property > issues. Among the NGOs that were blocked were aclu.org, cdt.org, > citizen.org, eff.org, healthgap.org, keionline.org and publicknowledge.org. > Among the sites NOT BLOCKED were the industry lobby groups BSA, MPPA, RIIA, > and PhRMA. **** > > The USPTO also selectively blocks certain blogs and new sites, including, > for example, dailykos.coms, firedoglake.com, redstate.org, > rushlimbaugh.com and talkingpointsmemo.com., **** > > Here are examples of what the USPTO blocks, and does not block. **** > > *Blocked NGOs***** > > aclu.org > cdt.org > citizen.org > eff.org > healthgap.org > keionline.org > publicknowledge.org **** > > *NGOs that are NOT blocked***** > > bsa.org > creativecommons.org > iipa.com > iipi.org > ipi.org > mpaa.org > PhRMA.org > pubpat.org > RIIA.Org > stockholm-network.org **** > > *Blocked Blogs and news outlets***** > > dailykos.coms > firedoglake.com > redstate.org > rushlimbaugh.com > talkingpointsmemo.com **** > > *Blogs and new outlets that are NOT blocked ***** > > 71patent.blogspot.com > aljazeera.com > boingboing.net > dailycaller.com > democracynow.org > drudgereport.com > groklaw.net > huffingtonpost.com > ip-watch.org > itcblog.com > lessig.org > michaelgeist.ca > nationalreview.com > spicyipindia.blogspot.com > techdirt.com > washingtonmonthly.com **** > > - James Love's blog **** > - Add new comment > **** > - Printer-friendly version **** > - Send by email **** > > *Cause of foul up * > > Submitted by Anonymous dude or dudess on 19. September 2012 - 12:02. **** > > 'Ex-Patent Examiner here. If this was anything other than a contractor > foul-up, I'll eat my hat. There were a dozen instances where I'd need to > call the help desk to access a website that would enable me to do my job.' > If true, this means no one at USPTO tried to access those sites and asked > for the filter to be removed since it was implemented.**** > > - reply **** > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t**** > > > > **** > > ** ** > > -- **** > > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala**** > > P.O. Box 17862**** > > Suva**** > > Fiji**** > > ** ** > > Twitter: @SalanietaT**** > > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro**** > > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851**** > > ** ** > > **** > > ** ** > > ** ** > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Thu Sep 20 15:23:54 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 07:23:54 +1200 Subject: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos In-Reply-To: References: <505AD20B.8030308@gmail.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D48408998@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> <010a01cd974d$c9ea1690$5dbe43b0$@jstyre.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D48408C30@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> <015d01cd9753$dc75a670$9560f350$@jstyre.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 7:22 AM, Jamie Love wrote: > I was not paying that much attention to this issue, and I was surprised to > learn how ubiquitous at the enterprise/government/school level these > technologies have become, often directed at blocking malware, pornography, > hate speech, or even sports or shopping, and apparently > political activism too. (Here are some of the categories > http://goo.gl/UY4fz). Thank you Jamie for an excellent blog. I love how you wrote about the matter. :):) > > As others have mentioned, the Blue Coat filters (and probably their > competitors products) are used in several countries as inexpensive ways to > control access to some types of content. When used to block access to > information, it's just another thing to worry about or route around. > > > On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 1:17 PM, James S. Tyre wrote: > >> No, I don’t think you’ll see pics of me picketing at PTO. Jamie is based >> in DC, he can just walk over. But using a point of reference that you’ll >> appreciate, I’m about 7 minutes away from ICANN’s old MdR office (and about >> the same from the new one, though I’ve not been to it). I’m not nearly so >> lathered up about this that I’m planning on flying cross-country to >> picket. ‘-)**** >> >> ** ** >> >> More seriously, I don’t see this as a global issue. But I didn’t start >> this thread, I’m pretty new to this list, and I’m not sure I have a good >> understanding of what IGC considers to be local v. global.**** >> >> ** ** >> >> -Jim**** >> >> ** ** >> >> --**** >> >> James S. Tyre**** >> >> Law Offices of James S. Tyre**** >> >> 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512**** >> >> Culver City, CA 90230-4969**** >> >> 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax)**** >> >> jstyre at jstyre.com**** >> >> Policy Fellow, Electronic Frontier Foundation**** >> >> https://www.eff.org**** >> >> ** ** >> >> *From:* Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch [mailto:apisan at unam.mx] >> *Sent:* Thursday, September 20, 2012 10:00 AM >> *To:* James S. Tyre; governance at lists.igcaucus.org; 'Salanieta T. >> Tamanikaiwaimaro'; 'Riaz K Tayob' >> >> *Subject:* RE: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to >> "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, >> Redstate, DailyKos**** >> >> ** ** >> >> Jim, **** >> >> ** ** >> >> thanks - I still see IT SOP gone wild but am in no position to test or >> contest. **** >> >> ** ** >> >> Guess I'll see pics of you and Jamie picketing (this IS a local, not >> global, issue, right?)**** >> >> ** ** >> >> Yours,**** >> >> ** ** >> >> Alejandro Pisanty**** >> >> ** ** >> >> **** >> >> ! !! !!! !!!!**** >> >> NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO**** >> >> **** >> >> +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD **** >> >> +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO **** >> >> SMS +525541444475 >> Dr. Alejandro Pisanty >> UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico >> >> Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com >> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty >> Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, >> http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 >> Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty >> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org >> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . **** >> ------------------------------ >> >> *Desde:* James S. Tyre [jstyre at jstyre.com] >> *Enviado el:* jueves, 20 de septiembre de 2012 11:34 >> *Hasta:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch; >> 'Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro'; 'Riaz K Tayob' >> *Asunto:* RE: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to >> "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, >> Redstate, DailyKos**** >> >> Alejandro,**** >> >> **** >> >> It isn’t really that simple at all. Before I begin, however, let me >> state two things. First, I do not question that PTO turned the thing off >> shortly after becoming aware of it. Second, I assume that you’re not aware >> of some of the relevant facts and law, rather than that you’re ignoring >> them.**** >> >> **** >> >> PTO is a US government agency. A government agency as employer is not >> held to the same First Amendment restrictions as a government agency as >> government, but, unlike private sector employers, the government as >> employer is subject to some First Amendment restrictions.**** >> >> **** >> >> This particular filter was not in any way supposed to be similar to what >> is seen in corporate IT. It’s specific purpose, it’s only purpose, was to >> block access to terrorist sites and similar. (Some of that is required by >> US law, whether that’s a good or bad law is not something I plan on >> discussing here.) How any of the blacklisted sites could be found to be >> terrorist sites is incomprehensible. This was never supposed to be a >> pretty standard filter.**** >> >> **** >> >> Incidentally, the filter is the handiwork of Blue Coat, which did such a >> marvelous job of promoting free expression on the Internet in Syria, among >> other places, see, e.g., >> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/10/blue-coat-acknowledges-syrian-government-use-its-products >> **** >> >> **** >> >> --**** >> >> James S. Tyre**** >> >> Law Offices of James S. Tyre**** >> >> 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512**** >> >> Culver City, CA 90230-4969**** >> >> 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax)**** >> >> jstyre at jstyre.com**** >> >> Policy Fellow, Electronic Frontier Foundation**** >> >> https://www.eff.org**** >> >> **** >> >> *From:* governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org >> [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] *On Behalf Of *Dr. >> Alejandro Pisanty Baruch >> *Sent:* Thursday, September 20, 2012 7:09 AM >> *To:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro; Riaz >> K Tayob >> *Subject:* RE: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to >> "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, >> Redstate, DailyKos**** >> >> **** >> >> Sala, **** >> >> **** >> >> any knowledge of corporate IT will tell you that this is a pretty >> standard filter used in private as well as public offices. Usually >> installed by third parties who set up the networks or even run them, or >> accessed by IT at third-party sites. As Jamie Love writes as well, the >> filter was removed upon request. It is the same type of filter that would >> have caused some hotel reservation sites to be blocked "for sexual content." >> **** >> >> **** >> >> Clues... they used to be more widely available.**** >> >> **** >> >> Alejandro Pisanty**** >> >> **** >> >> **** >> >> ! !! !!! !!!!**** >> >> NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO**** >> >> **** >> >> +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD **** >> >> +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO **** >> >> SMS +525541444475 >> Dr. Alejandro Pisanty >> UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico >> >> Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com >> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty >> Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, >> http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 >> Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty >> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org >> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . **** >> ------------------------------ >> >> *Desde:* governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [ >> governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Salanieta T. >> Tamanikaiwaimaro [salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com] >> *Enviado el:* jueves, 20 de septiembre de 2012 05:02 >> *Hasta:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Riaz K Tayob >> *Asunto:* Re: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to >> "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, >> Redstate, DailyKos**** >> >> If what is reported is legitimate, we are in for some troubling times >> ahead of us. :( :(:( **** >> >> **** >> >> Sala**** >> >> On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:21 PM, Riaz K Tayob >> wrote:**** >> *USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, >> ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos >> * >> >> - View **** >> - What links here **** >> >> Submitted by James Love on 18. September 2012 - 12:32 **** >> >> *Update:* At 5 pm the USPTO called and said that the public access wifi >> network was using a filter, provided by a contractor, to block "political >> activist" sites. This filter was not used by the network providing Internet >> access for the USPTO staff. After our meeting, the USPTO reviewed its >> policies, and has removed the filter. USPTO says the filter was implemented >> by a contractor, and no one we talked to at USPTO was aware of who was >> being blocked. In any event, the filter has been removed. **** >> >> Today I was visiting the USPTO, for a high level meeting on global >> negotiations on intellectual property and access to medicine. The meeting >> was held in the Stockholm Room, on the 2nd floor of the USPTO library, at >> the main USPTO building at 600 Dulany Street, Alexandria, VA. The USPTO >> also uses these meeting rooms for its Global Intellectual Property Academy >> (GIPA). The USPTO offers free Wifi for the visitors. But when I tried to >> login to http://keionline.org, I received this message:**** >> >> Access Denied (content_filter_denied) **** >> >> Your request was denied because this URL contains content that is >> categorized as: "Political/Activist Groups" which is blocked by USPTO >> policy. If you believe the categorization is inaccurate, please contact the >> USPTO Service Desk and request a manual review of the URL.**** >> >> For assistance, contact USPTO OCIO IT Service Desk. (io-proxy4)**** >> >> We checked and found that the USPTO blocks access to a number of groups >> that have followed SOPA and the TPP intellectual property negotiations, >> particularly those critical of the USPTO positions on intellectual property >> issues. Among the NGOs that were blocked were aclu.org, cdt.org, >> citizen.org, eff.org, healthgap.org, keionline.org and >> publicknowledge.org. Among the sites NOT BLOCKED were the industry lobby >> groups BSA, MPPA, RIIA, and PhRMA. **** >> >> The USPTO also selectively blocks certain blogs and new sites, including, >> for example, dailykos.coms, firedoglake.com, redstate.org, >> rushlimbaugh.com and talkingpointsmemo.com., **** >> >> Here are examples of what the USPTO blocks, and does not block. **** >> >> *Blocked NGOs***** >> >> aclu.org >> cdt.org >> citizen.org >> eff.org >> healthgap.org >> keionline.org >> publicknowledge.org **** >> >> *NGOs that are NOT blocked***** >> >> bsa.org >> creativecommons.org >> iipa.com >> iipi.org >> ipi.org >> mpaa.org >> PhRMA.org >> pubpat.org >> RIIA.Org >> stockholm-network.org **** >> >> *Blocked Blogs and news outlets***** >> >> dailykos.coms >> firedoglake.com >> redstate.org >> rushlimbaugh.com >> talkingpointsmemo.com **** >> >> *Blogs and new outlets that are NOT blocked ***** >> >> 71patent.blogspot.com >> aljazeera.com >> boingboing.net >> dailycaller.com >> democracynow.org >> drudgereport.com >> groklaw.net >> huffingtonpost.com >> ip-watch.org >> itcblog.com >> lessig.org >> michaelgeist.ca >> nationalreview.com >> spicyipindia.blogspot.com >> techdirt.com >> washingtonmonthly.com **** >> >> - James Love's blog **** >> - Add new comment >> **** >> - Printer-friendly version **** >> - Send by email **** >> >> *Cause of foul up * >> >> Submitted by Anonymous dude or dudess on 19. September 2012 - 12:02. **** >> >> 'Ex-Patent Examiner here. If this was anything other than a contractor >> foul-up, I'll eat my hat. There were a dozen instances where I'd need to >> call the help desk to access a website that would enable me to do my job.' >> If true, this means no one at USPTO tried to access those sites and asked >> for the filter to be removed since it was implemented.**** >> >> - reply **** >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t**** >> >> >> >> **** >> >> **** >> >> -- **** >> >> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala**** >> >> P.O. Box 17862**** >> >> Suva**** >> >> Fiji**** >> >> **** >> >> Twitter: @SalanietaT**** >> >> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro**** >> >> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851**** >> >> **** >> >> **** >> >> **** >> >> **** >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > > -- > James Love. Knowledge Ecology International > http://www.keionline.org, +1.202.332.2670, US Mobile: +1.202.361.3040, > Geneva Mobile: +41.76.413.6584, efax: +1.888.245.3140. > twitter.com/jamie_love > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Thu Sep 20 14:40:49 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 21:40:49 +0300 Subject: [governance] US, trade allies push for international services talks In-Reply-To: <505AA6A3.5030908@bluewin.ch> References: <505AA6A3.5030908@bluewin.ch> Message-ID: <505B6331.3040607@gmail.com> http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/19/wto-services-idUSL1E8KJ8Q520120919 US, trade allies push for international services talks September 19, 2012, 12:59pm EDT By Doug Palmer WASHINGTON, Sept 19 (Reuters) - A proposed international agreement to reduce barriers to trade in service sectors ranging from banking to telecommunications would give the global economy a much-needed boost, top trade officials said on Wednesday. "This is a huge opportunity to spur economic prosperity and job growth," U.S. Trade Representative Ron Kirk said in a speech at a conference of global companies eager for new markets to sell their services. With the nearly 11-year-old Doha round of world trade talks all but officially dead, the United States and 19 other members of the World Trade Organization have been exploring the idea of negotiating an international services agreement. "It is our collective plea to the world to take the open shot," Kirk said, using a basketball analogy to argue for countries to launch talks aimed at quickly reaching a high-quality pact. "We need to put points on the board." Major emerging economies such as China, Brazil and India have been cool to the idea. But global services companies want the 20 members, which include the 27-nation European Union and other developed and developing countries, to press ahead. "I think the important thing is just to get something moving," New Zealand Trade Minister Tim Groser said, expressing optimism that "other important countries" could be brought into the negotiations once they start. Mexico's Ambassador to the WTO Fernando De Mateo said negotiators should aim for a pact within 12 months, once talks start. Other negotiators also expressed the desire for a speedy negotiation. Michael Punke, U.S. ambassador to the WTO, said the 20 countries would meet again in Geneva in early October to consider the next steps. "I think we should skip the ritual dance and dive right in," said Punke, who also expressed hope that more WTO members would join in. Canadian Trade Minister Ed Fast said negotiators should shoot for an ambitious agreement that sets a high-standard of market openness without "constantly keeping our eyes on the emerging economies" and worrying if they can match the commitments. South Korean Trade Minister Taeho Bark and several other speakers said the agreement should be crafted in way that its commitments can eventually be "multilateralized" among all WTO members. A number of negotiators said the pact could be forged by consolidating the most ambitious services chapters of existing free trade agreements, and complementing that with new market-opening commitments. Kirk said the United States favored a "negative list" to the talks, meaning the pact would cover all services sectors unless they are specifically excluded. Others favor a "positive" list, which liberalizes only those sectors specifically mentioned. Punke and senior EU trade official Joao Machado said a compromise on that issue was likely, with countries using a "hybrid" approach. "The imperative for us is to get this train rolling down the tracks," while keeping open the possibility for Brazil, India, China and other countries to join, Kirk said. "This is a train with nothing but first-class service. So if you get on late, you're not going to have to get on in the back with the cows and the pigs ... This is a Eurostar," Kirk said. ---- © Thomson Reuters 2011. All rights reserved. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Thu Sep 20 15:37:04 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 07:37:04 +1200 Subject: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos In-Reply-To: References: <505AD20B.8030308@gmail.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D48408998@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> <010a01cd974d$c9ea1690$5dbe43b0$@jstyre.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D48408C30@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> <015d01cd9753$dc75a670$9560f350$@jstyre.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 7:22 AM, Jamie Love wrote: > I was not paying that much attention to this issue, and I was surprised to > learn how ubiquitous at the enterprise/government/school level these > technologies have become, often directed at blocking malware, pornography, > hate speech, or even sports or shopping, and apparently > political activism too. (Here are some of the categories > http://goo.gl/UY4fz). > > I just saw the categories. It worries me :( particularly more so when we think of what was reported in the media, in Iran and Syria who had created an elite army to hunt down dissidents. The potential for abuse is of concern :( As others have mentioned, the Blue Coat filters (and probably their > competitors products) are used in several countries as inexpensive ways to > control access to some types of content. When used to block access to > information, it's just another thing to worry about or route around. > > > On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 1:17 PM, James S. Tyre wrote: > >> No, I don’t think you’ll see pics of me picketing at PTO. Jamie is based >> in DC, he can just walk over. But using a point of reference that you’ll >> appreciate, I’m about 7 minutes away from ICANN’s old MdR office (and about >> the same from the new one, though I’ve not been to it). I’m not nearly so >> lathered up about this that I’m planning on flying cross-country to >> picket. ‘-)**** >> >> ** ** >> >> More seriously, I don’t see this as a global issue. But I didn’t start >> this thread, I’m pretty new to this list, and I’m not sure I have a good >> understanding of what IGC considers to be local v. global.**** >> >> ** ** >> >> -Jim**** >> >> ** ** >> >> --**** >> >> James S. Tyre**** >> >> Law Offices of James S. Tyre**** >> >> 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512**** >> >> Culver City, CA 90230-4969**** >> >> 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax)**** >> >> jstyre at jstyre.com**** >> >> Policy Fellow, Electronic Frontier Foundation**** >> >> https://www.eff.org**** >> >> ** ** >> >> *From:* Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch [mailto:apisan at unam.mx] >> *Sent:* Thursday, September 20, 2012 10:00 AM >> *To:* James S. Tyre; governance at lists.igcaucus.org; 'Salanieta T. >> Tamanikaiwaimaro'; 'Riaz K Tayob' >> >> *Subject:* RE: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to >> "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, >> Redstate, DailyKos**** >> >> ** ** >> >> Jim, **** >> >> ** ** >> >> thanks - I still see IT SOP gone wild but am in no position to test or >> contest. **** >> >> ** ** >> >> Guess I'll see pics of you and Jamie picketing (this IS a local, not >> global, issue, right?)**** >> >> ** ** >> >> Yours,**** >> >> ** ** >> >> Alejandro Pisanty**** >> >> ** ** >> >> **** >> >> ! !! !!! !!!!**** >> >> NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO**** >> >> **** >> >> +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD **** >> >> +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO **** >> >> SMS +525541444475 >> Dr. Alejandro Pisanty >> UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico >> >> Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com >> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty >> Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, >> http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 >> Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty >> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org >> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . **** >> ------------------------------ >> >> *Desde:* James S. Tyre [jstyre at jstyre.com] >> *Enviado el:* jueves, 20 de septiembre de 2012 11:34 >> *Hasta:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch; >> 'Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro'; 'Riaz K Tayob' >> *Asunto:* RE: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to >> "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, >> Redstate, DailyKos**** >> >> Alejandro,**** >> >> **** >> >> It isn’t really that simple at all. Before I begin, however, let me >> state two things. First, I do not question that PTO turned the thing off >> shortly after becoming aware of it. Second, I assume that you’re not aware >> of some of the relevant facts and law, rather than that you’re ignoring >> them.**** >> >> **** >> >> PTO is a US government agency. A government agency as employer is not >> held to the same First Amendment restrictions as a government agency as >> government, but, unlike private sector employers, the government as >> employer is subject to some First Amendment restrictions.**** >> >> **** >> >> This particular filter was not in any way supposed to be similar to what >> is seen in corporate IT. It’s specific purpose, it’s only purpose, was to >> block access to terrorist sites and similar. (Some of that is required by >> US law, whether that’s a good or bad law is not something I plan on >> discussing here.) How any of the blacklisted sites could be found to be >> terrorist sites is incomprehensible. This was never supposed to be a >> pretty standard filter.**** >> >> **** >> >> Incidentally, the filter is the handiwork of Blue Coat, which did such a >> marvelous job of promoting free expression on the Internet in Syria, among >> other places, see, e.g., >> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/10/blue-coat-acknowledges-syrian-government-use-its-products >> **** >> >> **** >> >> --**** >> >> James S. Tyre**** >> >> Law Offices of James S. Tyre**** >> >> 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512**** >> >> Culver City, CA 90230-4969**** >> >> 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax)**** >> >> jstyre at jstyre.com**** >> >> Policy Fellow, Electronic Frontier Foundation**** >> >> https://www.eff.org**** >> >> **** >> >> *From:* governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org >> [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] *On Behalf Of *Dr. >> Alejandro Pisanty Baruch >> *Sent:* Thursday, September 20, 2012 7:09 AM >> *To:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro; Riaz >> K Tayob >> *Subject:* RE: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to >> "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, >> Redstate, DailyKos**** >> >> **** >> >> Sala, **** >> >> **** >> >> any knowledge of corporate IT will tell you that this is a pretty >> standard filter used in private as well as public offices. Usually >> installed by third parties who set up the networks or even run them, or >> accessed by IT at third-party sites. As Jamie Love writes as well, the >> filter was removed upon request. It is the same type of filter that would >> have caused some hotel reservation sites to be blocked "for sexual content." >> **** >> >> **** >> >> Clues... they used to be more widely available.**** >> >> **** >> >> Alejandro Pisanty**** >> >> **** >> >> **** >> >> ! !! !!! !!!!**** >> >> NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO**** >> >> **** >> >> +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD **** >> >> +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO **** >> >> SMS +525541444475 >> Dr. Alejandro Pisanty >> UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico >> >> Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com >> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty >> Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, >> http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 >> Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty >> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org >> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . **** >> ------------------------------ >> >> *Desde:* governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [ >> governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Salanieta T. >> Tamanikaiwaimaro [salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com] >> *Enviado el:* jueves, 20 de septiembre de 2012 05:02 >> *Hasta:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Riaz K Tayob >> *Asunto:* Re: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to >> "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, >> Redstate, DailyKos**** >> >> If what is reported is legitimate, we are in for some troubling times >> ahead of us. :( :(:( **** >> >> **** >> >> Sala**** >> >> On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:21 PM, Riaz K Tayob >> wrote:**** >> *USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, >> ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos >> * >> >> - View **** >> - What links here **** >> >> Submitted by James Love on 18. September 2012 - 12:32 **** >> >> *Update:* At 5 pm the USPTO called and said that the public access wifi >> network was using a filter, provided by a contractor, to block "political >> activist" sites. This filter was not used by the network providing Internet >> access for the USPTO staff. After our meeting, the USPTO reviewed its >> policies, and has removed the filter. USPTO says the filter was implemented >> by a contractor, and no one we talked to at USPTO was aware of who was >> being blocked. In any event, the filter has been removed. **** >> >> Today I was visiting the USPTO, for a high level meeting on global >> negotiations on intellectual property and access to medicine. The meeting >> was held in the Stockholm Room, on the 2nd floor of the USPTO library, at >> the main USPTO building at 600 Dulany Street, Alexandria, VA. The USPTO >> also uses these meeting rooms for its Global Intellectual Property Academy >> (GIPA). The USPTO offers free Wifi for the visitors. But when I tried to >> login to http://keionline.org, I received this message:**** >> >> Access Denied (content_filter_denied) **** >> >> Your request was denied because this URL contains content that is >> categorized as: "Political/Activist Groups" which is blocked by USPTO >> policy. If you believe the categorization is inaccurate, please contact the >> USPTO Service Desk and request a manual review of the URL.**** >> >> For assistance, contact USPTO OCIO IT Service Desk. (io-proxy4)**** >> >> We checked and found that the USPTO blocks access to a number of groups >> that have followed SOPA and the TPP intellectual property negotiations, >> particularly those critical of the USPTO positions on intellectual property >> issues. Among the NGOs that were blocked were aclu.org, cdt.org, >> citizen.org, eff.org, healthgap.org, keionline.org and >> publicknowledge.org. Among the sites NOT BLOCKED were the industry lobby >> groups BSA, MPPA, RIIA, and PhRMA. **** >> >> The USPTO also selectively blocks certain blogs and new sites, including, >> for example, dailykos.coms, firedoglake.com, redstate.org, >> rushlimbaugh.com and talkingpointsmemo.com., **** >> >> Here are examples of what the USPTO blocks, and does not block. **** >> >> *Blocked NGOs***** >> >> aclu.org >> cdt.org >> citizen.org >> eff.org >> healthgap.org >> keionline.org >> publicknowledge.org **** >> >> *NGOs that are NOT blocked***** >> >> bsa.org >> creativecommons.org >> iipa.com >> iipi.org >> ipi.org >> mpaa.org >> PhRMA.org >> pubpat.org >> RIIA.Org >> stockholm-network.org **** >> >> *Blocked Blogs and news outlets***** >> >> dailykos.coms >> firedoglake.com >> redstate.org >> rushlimbaugh.com >> talkingpointsmemo.com **** >> >> *Blogs and new outlets that are NOT blocked ***** >> >> 71patent.blogspot.com >> aljazeera.com >> boingboing.net >> dailycaller.com >> democracynow.org >> drudgereport.com >> groklaw.net >> huffingtonpost.com >> ip-watch.org >> itcblog.com >> lessig.org >> michaelgeist.ca >> nationalreview.com >> spicyipindia.blogspot.com >> techdirt.com >> washingtonmonthly.com **** >> >> - James Love's blog **** >> - Add new comment >> **** >> - Printer-friendly version **** >> - Send by email **** >> >> *Cause of foul up * >> >> Submitted by Anonymous dude or dudess on 19. September 2012 - 12:02. **** >> >> 'Ex-Patent Examiner here. If this was anything other than a contractor >> foul-up, I'll eat my hat. There were a dozen instances where I'd need to >> call the help desk to access a website that would enable me to do my job.' >> If true, this means no one at USPTO tried to access those sites and asked >> for the filter to be removed since it was implemented.**** >> >> - reply **** >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t**** >> >> >> >> **** >> >> **** >> >> -- **** >> >> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala**** >> >> P.O. Box 17862**** >> >> Suva**** >> >> Fiji**** >> >> **** >> >> Twitter: @SalanietaT**** >> >> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro**** >> >> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851**** >> >> **** >> >> **** >> >> **** >> >> **** >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > > -- > James Love. Knowledge Ecology International > http://www.keionline.org, +1.202.332.2670, US Mobile: +1.202.361.3040, > Geneva Mobile: +41.76.413.6584, efax: +1.888.245.3140. > twitter.com/jamie_love > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From mueller at syr.edu Thu Sep 20 20:30:09 2012 From: mueller at syr.edu (Milton L Mueller) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 00:30:09 +0000 Subject: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos In-Reply-To: References: <505AD20B.8030308@gmail.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D48408998@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> <010a01cd974d$c9ea1690$5dbe43b0$@jstyre.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D48408C30@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> <015d01cd9753$dc75a670$9560f350$@jstyre.com> Message-ID: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD2234815@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> This is one of the topics in my class on Information Policy. We talk about the scalability of online censorship and the role of DPI and other technologies in attempting to filter access. Attached is a list of categories used by the DPI company Blue Coat to classify web sites. From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 3:37 PM To: Jamie Love Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; James S. Tyre; Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch; Riaz K Tayob Subject: Re: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 7:22 AM, Jamie Love > wrote: I was not paying that much attention to this issue, and I was surprised to learn how ubiquitous at the enterprise/government/school level these technologies have become, often directed at blocking malware, pornography, hate speech, or even sports or shopping, and apparently political activism too. (Here are some of the categories http://goo.gl/UY4fz). I just saw the categories. It worries me :( particularly more so when we think of what was reported in the media, in Iran and Syria who had created an elite army to hunt down dissidents. The potential for abuse is of concern :( As others have mentioned, the Blue Coat filters (and probably their competitors products) are used in several countries as inexpensive ways to control access to some types of content. When used to block access to information, it's just another thing to worry about or route around. On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 1:17 PM, James S. Tyre > wrote: No, I don't think you'll see pics of me picketing at PTO. Jamie is based in DC, he can just walk over. But using a point of reference that you'll appreciate, I'm about 7 minutes away from ICANN's old MdR office (and about the same from the new one, though I've not been to it). I'm not nearly so lathered up about this that I'm planning on flying cross-country to picket. '-) More seriously, I don't see this as a global issue. But I didn't start this thread, I'm pretty new to this list, and I'm not sure I have a good understanding of what IGC considers to be local v. global. -Jim -- James S. Tyre Law Offices of James S. Tyre 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) jstyre at jstyre.com Policy Fellow, Electronic Frontier Foundation https://www.eff.org From: Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch [mailto:apisan at unam.mx] Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 10:00 AM To: James S. Tyre; governance at lists.igcaucus.org; 'Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro'; 'Riaz K Tayob' Subject: RE: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos Jim, thanks - I still see IT SOP gone wild but am in no position to test or contest. Guess I'll see pics of you and Jamie picketing (this IS a local, not global, issue, right?) Yours, Alejandro Pisanty ! !! !!! !!!! NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475 Dr. Alejandro Pisanty UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ________________________________ Desde: James S. Tyre [jstyre at jstyre.com] Enviado el: jueves, 20 de septiembre de 2012 11:34 Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch; 'Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro'; 'Riaz K Tayob' Asunto: RE: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos Alejandro, It isn't really that simple at all. Before I begin, however, let me state two things. First, I do not question that PTO turned the thing off shortly after becoming aware of it. Second, I assume that you're not aware of some of the relevant facts and law, rather than that you're ignoring them. PTO is a US government agency. A government agency as employer is not held to the same First Amendment restrictions as a government agency as government, but, unlike private sector employers, the government as employer is subject to some First Amendment restrictions. This particular filter was not in any way supposed to be similar to what is seen in corporate IT. It's specific purpose, it's only purpose, was to block access to terrorist sites and similar. (Some of that is required by US law, whether that's a good or bad law is not something I plan on discussing here.) How any of the blacklisted sites could be found to be terrorist sites is incomprehensible. This was never supposed to be a pretty standard filter. Incidentally, the filter is the handiwork of Blue Coat, which did such a marvelous job of promoting free expression on the Internet in Syria, among other places, see, e.g., https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/10/blue-coat-acknowledges-syrian-government-use-its-products -- James S. Tyre Law Offices of James S. Tyre 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) jstyre at jstyre.com Policy Fellow, Electronic Frontier Foundation https://www.eff.org From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 7:09 AM To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro; Riaz K Tayob Subject: RE: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos Sala, any knowledge of corporate IT will tell you that this is a pretty standard filter used in private as well as public offices. Usually installed by third parties who set up the networks or even run them, or accessed by IT at third-party sites. As Jamie Love writes as well, the filter was removed upon request. It is the same type of filter that would have caused some hotel reservation sites to be blocked "for sexual content." Clues... they used to be more widely available. Alejandro Pisanty ! !! !!! !!!! NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475 Dr. Alejandro Pisanty UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ________________________________ Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro [salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com] Enviado el: jueves, 20 de septiembre de 2012 05:02 Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Riaz K Tayob Asunto: Re: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos If what is reported is legitimate, we are in for some troubling times ahead of us. :( :(:( Sala On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:21 PM, Riaz K Tayob > wrote: USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos * View * What links here Submitted by James Love on 18. September 2012 - 12:32 Update: At 5 pm the USPTO called and said that the public access wifi network was using a filter, provided by a contractor, to block "political activist" sites. This filter was not used by the network providing Internet access for the USPTO staff. After our meeting, the USPTO reviewed its policies, and has removed the filter. USPTO says the filter was implemented by a contractor, and no one we talked to at USPTO was aware of who was being blocked. In any event, the filter has been removed. Today I was visiting the USPTO, for a high level meeting on global negotiations on intellectual property and access to medicine. The meeting was held in the Stockholm Room, on the 2nd floor of the USPTO library, at the main USPTO building at 600 Dulany Street, Alexandria, VA. The USPTO also uses these meeting rooms for its Global Intellectual Property Academy (GIPA). The USPTO offers free Wifi for the visitors. But when I tried to login to http://keionline.org, I received this message: Access Denied (content_filter_denied) Your request was denied because this URL contains content that is categorized as: "Political/Activist Groups" which is blocked by USPTO policy. If you believe the categorization is inaccurate, please contact the USPTO Service Desk and request a manual review of the URL. For assistance, contact USPTO OCIO IT Service Desk. (io-proxy4) We checked and found that the USPTO blocks access to a number of groups that have followed SOPA and the TPP intellectual property negotiations, particularly those critical of the USPTO positions on intellectual property issues. Among the NGOs that were blocked were aclu.org, cdt.org, citizen.org, eff.org, healthgap.org, keionline.org and publicknowledge.org. Among the sites NOT BLOCKED were the industry lobby groups BSA, MPPA, RIIA, and PhRMA. The USPTO also selectively blocks certain blogs and new sites, including, for example, dailykos.coms, firedoglake.com, redstate.org, rushlimbaugh.com and talkingpointsmemo.com., Here are examples of what the USPTO blocks, and does not block. Blocked NGOs aclu.org cdt.org citizen.org eff.org healthgap.org keionline.org publicknowledge.org NGOs that are NOT blocked bsa.org creativecommons.org iipa.com iipi.org ipi.org mpaa.org PhRMA.org pubpat.org RIIA.Org stockholm-network.org Blocked Blogs and news outlets dailykos.coms firedoglake.com redstate.org rushlimbaugh.com talkingpointsmemo.com Blogs and new outlets that are NOT blocked 71patent.blogspot.com aljazeera.com boingboing.net dailycaller.com democracynow.org drudgereport.com groklaw.net huffingtonpost.com ip-watch.org itcblog.com lessig.org michaelgeist.ca nationalreview.com spicyipindia.blogspot.com techdirt.com washingtonmonthly.com * James Love's blog * Add new comment * Printer-friendly version * Send by email Cause of foul up Submitted by Anonymous dude or dudess on 19. September 2012 - 12:02. 'Ex-Patent Examiner here. If this was anything other than a contractor foul-up, I'll eat my hat. There were a dozen instances where I'd need to call the help desk to access a website that would enable me to do my job.' If true, this means no one at USPTO tried to access those sites and asked for the filter to be removed since it was implemented. * reply ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -- James Love. Knowledge Ecology International http://www.keionline.org, +1.202.332.2670, US Mobile: +1.202.361.3040, Geneva Mobile: +41.76.413.6584, efax: +1.888.245.3140. twitter.com/jamie_love -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Blue_Coat_WebFilter_URL_Categories.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 276174 bytes Desc: Blue_Coat_WebFilter_URL_Categories.pdf URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Thu Sep 20 23:48:22 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 15:48:22 +1200 Subject: [governance] Fwd: ICANN SSAC Publications #Blind Men and the Elephant In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear All, It will be great if you all could come and participate in the meetings in Toronto where ICANN 45 will be held. There will no doubt be many interesting things discussed and ICANN meetings are open to all. After all why complain when you can attend and engage in dialogue and discussions if not debates. Meetings are accessible and there is remote participation available. For now, here is the latest from the SSAC, see below: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro Date: Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 3:37 PM Subject: ICANN SSAC Publications #Blind Men and the Elephant To: pacnog at pacnog.org, Pacific Islands Chapter of the Internet Society Discussion List , igf-pacific < igf-pacific at googlegroups.com>, fjcswg at googlegroups.com Dear All, The Security Stability Advisory Committee (SSAC) is to advise the ICANN community and Board on matters relating to security and integrity of the Internet's naming and address allocation systems. The SSAC have just released the following: 1. The latest SSAC document published, see: http://www.icann.org/en/groups/ssac/documents; and 2. The SSAC Comment on the WHOIS Review Team Final Report of 14th September, 2012, see: http://www.icann.org/en/groups/ssac/documents/sac-055-en.pdf They have reviewed the WHOIS Review Final Report and its Recommendations and highlighted the need to focus on the core purpose of the "information" and labelled as High Priority the recommendation to have a Single Whois Policy. The WHOIS Review Final Report can be accessed via http://www.icann.org/en/about/**aoc-review/whois/final-report-** 11may12-en.pdf This is relevant for all those who have a stake in WHOIS whether they are Network Operators, Registries, Registrars, Resellers, country code top level domain name operators (ccTLDs), Internet Service Providers, Law Enforcement Officers who use WHOIS lookups and rely on them for investigations, Revenue Authorities, Policy Makers and of course last but certainly not the least, end users. Kind Regards, -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From parminder at itforchange.net Fri Sep 21 10:02:44 2012 From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 19:32:44 +0530 Subject: [governance] Big Porn v. Big Web Ruling Could Spell Trouble for ICANN / was Re: new gTLDs In-Reply-To: <505A3F1B.2090803@cis-india.org> References: <50332E85.8060106@itforchange.net> <50333A5C.7060908@itforchange.net> <504F7F81.6020705@cis-india.org> <505006F1.3020903@itforchange.net> <505A3F1B.2090803@cis-india.org> Message-ID: <505C7384.5040705@itforchange.net> Dear Pranesh, Thanks for your response. Before I respond to the specific issues raised by you let me state the larger context of what I see as being discussed here. Since you do mention in your email about 'not giving up the quest for alternatives' I see three alternative positions that are emerging. (1) Meaningful internationalisation of ICANN is not possible. Milton takes this view with some sympathy from Lee. I saw your questions in the two mails you sent as expressing grave doubts about possibilities of meaningful internationalisation. But if that is not what you are expressing, it is very fine. (With meaningful internationalisation I mean not only that US pulls itself out of the loop of the decision making on root changes, but also that ICANN's decisions, of root change, or related to its policies etc , are not subject to any kind of post facto review either by US courts or US executive authority. ) (2) ICANN should be internationalised without imposing any new oversight authority replacing US gov's. Ian and Avri have strongly supported this position, and apparently the ICANN plus system itself wants this to happen, and have made representations to this end. (I am not sure whether those holding this position think that some international law will be needed for any such internationalisation or not. And if not, how would any internationalisation of this kind be 'meaningful'. The proponents of this view may want to clarify) (3) (This is ITfC's position) ICANN's internationalisation will require it to be incorporated under international law and we need to find out how such a law will be arrived at. We think that an external international oversight mechanism of some kind is also necessary, although any such mechanism should have a very clearly circumscribed and minimal role, and should employ innovations in its manner of constitution - not going the typical UN kind of gov representation role, but employing some kind of regional process of selection, maybe taking people from public tech institutes or professional associations etc.... Now to the points in your email. On Thursday 20 September 2012 03:24 AM, Pranesh Prakash wrote: > parminder [2012-09-11 23:52]: >> snip > > There's a difference between WIPO and ICANN. Yes, there are differences. But what I am pointing to is the similarity between WIPO and a possibly internationalised ICANN. It is about the fact that the global policies that WIPO makes are not subject to review by Switzerland's courts or government. Right!. In the case of ICANN, its global policies are subject to such reviews at present. The protection or immunity we want under an international law is to make sure that ICANN's global decisions cannot be reviewed and thus struck down by US courts/ government. Do tell me why such protection/ immunities available to WIPO's policy making process and outcomes against review/ interference by local jurisdictions are not possible to be made available under international law to ICANN's global policies and other actions. > Almost none of WIPO's decisions are self-executing: Yes this is a difference. As we all know Internet is indeed different as a unitary infrastructure for the world. And if we want to protect both such globalness of it, and political principles that we hold dear like democracy and the such, we need to be ready to get into innovative thinking that meets both these important objectives rather than jettison one for the other. Going into the operational details, I dont see what is the problem if ICANN, duly protected by international law, was to make changes in the authoritative root zone server, located in its protected premises, and US under the same international law being obligated to give safe passage to these changes from ICANN servers to the root servers outside the US. If the US, exercising its legitimate jurisdiction over root servers and other infrastructure located within its jurisdiction does not want these changes to apply in the US territory, it will be well within its legitimate power to can take action at that level. Therefore, I see no problem with making, what you call as, the self-executing functions of ICANN immune to US jurisdiction under an appropriate international law. snip > > And for what it's worth, WIPO *is* subject to Swiss laws on everything > from fire safety onwards. Yes, these are the kind of things that host country arrangements deal with. Nothing new, and does not change anything. We are not asking ICANN to be immune from fire safely regulation, or other building regulations and also a host of other things as well. That would be quite silly to ask, and therefore no one does. . > And for what it's worth, the decision by the WIPO secretariat to > provide technological support in the form of computers to Iran and > North Korea, inter alia, to upgrade their patent offices has come > under the scrutiny of the American Congress for provision of dual-use > technology — whether rightly or wrongly so. The controversy was whether WIPO is following UN sanctions or not, and not whether it was following US law or not.... > >> Do I take from your framing of the above question that, therefore, >> you are >> fine for a global governance institution like ICANN to be subject to >> US's >> law and jurisdiction in terms of its substantive governance activities? > > A question isn't an argument, and people's view are often more > complicated than binaries. Testing the alternatives' worthiness > doesn't mean giving up on the quest to find viable alternatives. Sure. Neither posing counter questions should be considered wrong. It is very much the tradition of political discussions to explore linkages of any position/ question to possible political stances that it may appear to be aliening with. regards, parminder -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From gpaque at gmail.com Fri Sep 21 11:13:43 2012 From: gpaque at gmail.com (Ginger Paque) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 10:13:43 -0500 Subject: [governance] Fwd: [Programa FRIDA Program] INTERNET GOVERNANCE FORUM (IGF): Don't forget to... In-Reply-To: <38cb8e3215a76f79c9342861b6edbe87@async.facebook.com> References: <10152106042905567-163236095566@groups.facebook.com> <38cb8e3215a76f79c9342861b6edbe87@async.facebook.com> Message-ID: Apologies for cross posting, but this is very important. Cheers, Ginger ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Alexandra Dans Puiggros Date: 21 September 2012 09:54 Subject: [Programa FRIDA Program] INTERNET GOVERNANCE FORUM (IGF): Don't forget to... To: Programa FRIDA Program <163236095566 at groups.facebook.com> ** Alexandra Dans Puiggros posted in Programa FRIDA Program [image: INTERNET GOVERNANCE FORUM (IGF): Don't forget...] Alexandra Dans Puiggros 9:54am Sep 21 INTERNET GOVERNANCE FORUM (IGF): Don't forget to register your remote hubs for Baku! Spread the word! Instructions and registration form here: Hub Registration www.intgovforum.org IGF - The Internet Governance Forum View Post on Facebook· Edit Email Settings· Reply to this email to add a comment. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From charityg at diplomacy.edu Fri Sep 21 14:35:29 2012 From: charityg at diplomacy.edu (Charity Gamboa) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 13:35:29 -0500 Subject: [governance] Why Wikipedia Does Belong in the Classroom Message-ID: Hi all, Below is a good read in case you are interested about using wikipedia as a teaching tool. The article utlines the pros and cons. My stand has always been to use it as a teaching incentive and really to teach students how to use resources online appropriately. http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/why-wikipedia-does-belong-in-the-classroom.php Regards, Charity Gamboa-Embley -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Fri Sep 21 22:00:54 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 14:00:54 +1200 Subject: [governance] New Leadership/ was Ethiopia loses its PM/ Ethiopia criminalises the use of VOIP Message-ID: Ethiopia’s selection of Hailemariam Desalegn as the country’s new Prime Minister and Demeke Mekonnen as the new Deputy Prime Minister may signal new changes to the telecommunications landscape. On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 7:57 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear All, > > Just a few months ago (feels like years in the internet world), we were > having discussions on the criminalisation of VOIP in Ethiopia. As the > country mourns the passing of Meles Zenawi the Prime Minister who was in > power for more than 20 years, this is going to be a massive time of > transition for the nation of Ethiopia. Without a doubt the new leader will > face the extraordinary challenges of prioritising resources where there are > serious resource constraints. > > We wish our Ethiopian friends well during this time of transition. > > Kind Regards, > Sala > > On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 1:40 PM, Lee W McKnight wrote: > >> FYI, >> >> 12 years ago 70 countries banned voice over Internet; I don't have the >> current numbers but Ethiopia isn't the only nation to still declare voice >> over Internet illegal. It is however reversing the general trend of >> relaxing such bans, for Ethiopia to be passing new legislation. >> >> Even if as many have noted, in countries with official 'bans' VoIP >> services like Skype are widely used. >> >> Some of you may be amused by my presentation to an ITU workshop, attended >> by the secretary general, entitled 'How to Regulate a Platypus.' >> http://www.itu.int/osg/spu/ni/iptel/workshop/mcknight.pdf In which I >> suggested such efforts were bound to fail, and that it would not to easy to >> 'kill the duck.' >> >> Now to our present concerns: ITU actions can indeed legitimate actions >> which I would argue are not in the interests of a nation's citizens, but >> may be in the interests of a state ministry of telecoms, and/or a national >> telecom provider. Which is reason enough to remain - observant - of what >> WCIT is up to, in all areas. >> >> Lee >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [ >> governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] on behalf of Salanieta T. >> Tamanikaiwaimaro [salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com] >> *Sent:* Saturday, June 16, 2012 5:24 PM >> *To:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org; William Drake >> *Cc:* International Ivission; Gaël Hernandez >> *Subject:* Re: [governance] Ethiopia criminalises the use of VOIP >> >> My personal view is that each context is different and has unique >> challenges. In this instance, Ethiopia Telecommunication Corporation is >> licensed to provide the following:- >> >> - Public Switched Telecommunication Service >> - GSM 900 MHz Mobile Telecommunication Service >> - Internet Service >> - Digital Data Communication >> >> Of the 153 countries ranked in the 2011 IDI ranks as 151 which is very >> low. Ethiopia is also classified as a low income economy. Ethiopia is >> considered as the second most populous country in Africa and this affects >> issues of "accessibility" and teledensity. They are also dealing with their >> Financial Crisis and there is a Study on the Impact on Human Development by >> the UNFPA. >> >> The World Bank Ethiopia Director, Ken Ohashi is reported by Bloomberg >> in 2011 to have said that Ethiopia's dependence on foreign capital to >> finance budget deficits and a five year investment plan is unsustainable. >> >> According to the Bloomberg article, telecommunications is owned by the >> State, >> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-08/ethiopia-s-investment-plan-may-be-unsustainable-world-bank-official-says.html >> . >> >> The challenges of having a sole provider of telecommunications. Is the >> market liberalised? Are there incentives for liberalisation. >> >> Liberalisation of markets aside - if VOIP is banned, the first thing >> that comes to mind is the inference that the conflict lies between >> providing affordable access and operating a business where the bottom line >> helps to increase "access". >> >> The Internet Governance Forum is an excellent place that allows >> developing countries like Ethiopia who rank very poorly on the IDI to be >> able to mingle and discuss history of growth of telecommunications with >> others from around the world who are at different stages in development. >> They may be inspired to figure our creative and innovative ways and means >> to advance access and also give room for innovation and sustainability of >> business models. >> >> This is why collaboration and the rich sharing of information and >> resources through dialogue. It is normal and usual for people to be in >> their comfortable cliques at some of these forums. The rich diversity of >> the global landscape and terrain and its challenges truly make the world a >> diverse place. >> >> > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Fri Sep 21 22:22:30 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 14:22:30 +1200 Subject: [governance] Russia - US relations #trade #TPP #ITRs/ was TPP is worse than SOPA Message-ID: Dear All, I must say that I was shocked to hear US Aid being booted out of Russia of late. particularly in light of the recent MoU it signed with the US on permanent trade relations it reminds of paper mache and don't ask me why. It appears that the US strategy is to shift key aspects highlighted in the proposals on revision of ITRs to enveloping them first via the TPP and positioning the debate in the WTO. See Assistant Secretary Phillip Gordon remarks below at the Center for European Analysis: Press Gaggle Following Remarks at the Center for European Policy Analysis Remarks Philip H. Gordon Assistant Secretary, Bureau of European and Eurasian Affairs Center for European Policy Analysis Washington, DC September 20, 2012 ------------------------------ *QUESTION:* I just wanted to follow up, Assistant Secretary, about USAID and Russia. You mentioned that the United States is not going to back away from supporting civil organizations in Russia, but what kind of symbol do you think this sends that Russia has booted USAID out of the country? What does it mean for the country and the government? *ASSISTANT SECRETARY GORDON:* I think a lot of those who support democracy and human rights around the world see this as Russia backing away from commitments for a democratic society that allows for free expression and it’s not just the ending of the USAID mission. There’s a pattern going on over recent months in terms of treatment of NGOs, and deeming them foreign agents, and raising fines on protestors and other interventions in the media that lead people to the conclusion that Russia is somehow resisting the trend towards democracy, free expression and human rights. The United States has been consistent, will continue to support democracy, free expression and human rights. So it sends a negative signal, but not in isolation -- combined with other measures that the Russian government has taken. *QUESTION:* Did the U.S. see this coming? *ASSISTANT SECRETARY GORDON:* There’s been talk for some time about the Russian government desire to end the USAID mission specifically and more generally to end this sort of activity which again, as I say, is consistent with their other measures on NGOs. *QUESTION:* Do you see that in any way this may affect the reset in the Russian-American relations? *ASSISTANT SECRETARY GORDON:* We’ve been clear about the reset from the start. It was never naively assuming that we wouldn’t have our differences, and we’ve had differences over democracy and human rights from the start. We’ve been clear about those. The President and Secretary Clinton have raised it consistently in their meetings with Russian government officials. So it doesn’t mean that we’re not going to continue to try to work together in areas where we have common interests like non-proliferation, security, global challenges, nuclear issues, economic relations, we still welcome Russia’s joining of the WTO and want to boost U.S. investment in Russia. So it doesn’t change anything about the approach that we have taken to Russia. *QUESTION:* Mr. Secretary, in Poland there is growing fear that Poland would be left over; Poland and the region during transformation of American foreign policy when the stress is more on Asia than on the European effort. Are these fears justified? *ASSISTANT SECRETARY GORDON:* I think we’ve been very clear about what the renewed focus on Asia and the greater Middle East means, and means for Europe. It’s in no way walking away from the longstanding commitments we have to our partnership with Europe. In some ways, as I’ve made clear, the partnership for Europe is even more important to us because we face these great challenges in Asia and the Middle East -- that’s why we’re increasing our partnering with European countries. Nor is it in any way a diminishment of our rock solid support for all NATO allies, and I’ve described here and elsewhere how we’ve continued to maintain the viability of Article 5, by taking steps to enhance deterrence in Europe and Poland in particular -- we have the aviation detachment that we have established at a Polish air base; we’re moving forward with plans for missile defense that will involve the deployment of land-based interceptors in Poland with American military personnel involved with that. We will continue even after the restructuring of our global forces to have more troops in Europe deployed permanently than anywhere else in the world. We’re going to rotate in American personnel so that we continue to partner with European forces. I think objectively there’s no way to see this evolution as, in any way, a diminishment of our strong and continued commitment to Poland and other allies in the region. I wanted to come back to one more thing on the USAID point. You asked whether we saw it coming and what it means. The Russian government -- and what it means for democracy and human rights -- the Russian government has described this as a reflection of its new degree of economic development, and it’s not, they have said, a walking away from their support for these activities, but that Russia doesn’t need this anymore. We hope that they will follow up and provide support for the types of things that USAID has been supporting over the years. If they want to act on the basis of being a G8 country and an advanced economy and believe that they can support these goals without the United States, given that we support those goals, that’s what we’d like to see them do. *QUESTION:* How would you describe the chances of their doing that? *ASSISTANT SECRETARY GORDON:* That remains to be seen. *QUESTION:* Two very quick questions on the Caucasus, if I may. You mentioned in the discussion the Safarov case with Azerbaijan and Hungary. I know that the U.S. has reached out to both to follow up. I wanted to ask you, what have their responses been? And has the U.S. been satisfied with those responses? *ASSISTANT SECRETARY GORDON:* I think you’ve seen the public remarks of both in explaining what they did, and we continue to express our dismay and disappointment. We’re not satisfied with what has happened here. In our view this is someone who should have continued to serve out his sentence and certainly we were appalled by the glorification that we heard in some corridors of somebody who was convicted of murder, and so no, we’re not satisfied with the responses. *QUESTION:* A second quick question from the Caucasus. In Georgia there was this huge scandal that erupted in the past few days about the prison abuse videos. I’m wondering what the State Department’s, what has been the extent of the State Department’s contact with Georgia on this issue, and the reaction to it? *ASSISTANT SECRETARY GORDON:* As you know it’s evolving as we speak, especially yesterday more news came out so we are following it closely. We’re in touch with the Georgians, but we’re gathering information. *QUESTION:* A very quick question on Libya. There was a report this morning on NPR about extremist groups setting up camps in Libya and especially in the city where the horrible tragedy happened. Is the administration concerned about this situation? And whether, is it going to take any measures? *ASSISTANT SECRETARY GORDON:* We’re taking measures all around the world as we speak. Of course we’re very, we’re concerned first and foremost with the security of our people everywhere around the world in the wake of the protests and violence that we’ve seen -- obviously particularly in Libya given the tragedy last Tuesday. So yes, we are doing everything we can to make sure that we’re prepared to deal with any contingency that might emerge. *QUESTION:* In terms of the development of democracy in Libya, this may be very concerning -- *ASSISTANT SECRETARY GORDON:* Of course it’s concerning, but I would say no one should take this setback as an indication that it’s not possible to continue on the positive, forward path in Libya. This was a tragic incident; it was a horrible incident; it’s a sign that there are bad actors in Libya and that there’s not going to be a smooth and direct path to a stable democracy, but we knew that before –- and it would be wrong to extrapolate that because some individuals or groups are seeking to undermine the democracy. We’ve been very encouraged by both the words and actions of the Libyan government in denouncing this violence, in trying to help us deal with the perpetrators -- don’t forget that part of the firefight that took place around our facility was Libyan security forces against these armed groups, so there are still a lot of Libyans who value what the United States is doing, what others are doing, and who want to see a democracy in Libya and we’re not going to let these bad actors interfere with that goal. *QUESTION:* Mr. Secretary, talking about unfinished business in this part of Europe, especially Belarus, Ukraine, Moldova. How do you evaluate the role which was played by the new NATO members towards let’s say exporting democracy to this region? And how would you see the role of those countries in bringing democracy to, for example, Belarus? *ASSISTANT SECRETARY GORDON:* These countries are new partners in supporting democracy throughout Europe. They are no longer the objects of efforts to support democracy because they are democracies themselves, and in many ways they’ve been leaders in this effort. As I say, the Eastern Partnership was in some ways a Central European idea, and that’s not surprising because they have an even greater stake than we do -- they live next to the Ukraines and Belaruses of Europe -- so we’re partners in this common effort and we value what they’re doing. *QUESTION:* Yesterday the Senate Foreign Relations Committee I believe supported a resolution to institute perhaps visa bans on people involved in the alleged mistreatment of Yulia Tymoshenko in Ukraine. Would that be possible, do you think? And do you think it would be an effective way to get some movement on the issue? *ASSISTANT SECRETARY GORDON:* We share the concerns expressed by both Houses of Congress about the upcoming elections in Ukraine and about selective prosecutions. I think we’ve been very clear ourselves, directly and privately with Ukrainian leaders and in public about our concerns about selective prosecutions, and the need for free and fair elections. It is already the policy of the United States to deny visas to people who commit serious violations of human rights. It is not our policy at present to cut off ties with the Ukrainian government as part of an effort to get them to do the right thing on elections or prosecutions -- we don’t believe that that would be effective. We want to continue to engage and make clear that there are other consequences to failure to act in these areas and I think they know what those consequences are, they’re already in effect. Our bilateral relationship can’t be what we would like it to be so long as they’re doing this. I think they’re going to struggle to get support from IMF members for the economic assistance they need, so long as they haven’t dealt with this. The European Union has made clear that the Association Agreement, a Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade Agreement, won’t move forward. So there are other pressures the Ukrainians are feeling -- and that’s what we’re going to continue to pursue. *QUESTION:* On the Magnitsky list, do you see any situation in which the administration might support the efforts in the Congress to adopt the Magnitsky list? *ASSISTANT SECRETARY GORDON:* Well, it depends on what you mean by the Magnitsky list. As you know, we strongly support Permanent Normal Trade Relations with Russia because now that Russia’s going to join the WTO it’s in American firms’ interest to have PNTR extended to Russia -- we’ve just been very clear that that should happen as a core American economic interest. Congress in both houses has attached legislation to the PNTR measure that would have implications for democracy and human rights in Russia, including what you’re referring to in the case of those responsible for the imprisonment and death of Sergei Magnitsky. We completely share Congress’ intent in making sure that those who were responsible for this crime are punished. But as I noted before, it’s already our policy to deny visas to anyone who would be implicated in such a crime, and we’ve already done so. We’ve been clear that there are people who will not get a visa to the United States because of this. So in that sense, there are still some differences between the two Houses on what exactly -- that’s why it’s impossible to say do we support that legislation because there are still different versions that they have to work out. We certainly share Congress’ view that there should be consequences for those involved in suppression of democracy, grave human rights violations -- but we’re also absolutely clear that PNTR should move ahead -- it’s in America’s interest to do so; it’s not a gift to Russia; it’s something that’s in our own interest to do. *QUESTION:* Thank you so much. On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 8:54 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > The TPP will be worse than the SOPA. See the analysis by EFF: > > - > https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/08/tpp-creates-liabilities-isps-and-put-your-rights-risk > > > > There have been other reports, see: > > > - > http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/27/pacific-free-trade-deal > - > http://www.alternet.org/story/156059/trans-pacific_partnership%3A_under_cover_of_darkness%2C_a_corporate_coup_is_underway > > > Pay particular attention to the "NAFTA" on steroids bit. What is also > interesting is the news that Russia has just signed an MoU with the US > strengthening greater partnership, notwithstanding the support that it got > from the US in joining the WTO, You can imagine that if Russia is persuaded > to join the TPP then the likelihood that they will receive the relevant > traction to widen the circle of the TPP Party/Parade will definitely cause > the concerns that was raised by the EFF to be a reality in the not too > distant future. This means ISP liabilities amongst a host of other things. > > > For developing countries, the concept of "free trade" may sound lucrative > but the reality is that it only disadvantages one (the loser). > > > I find the US position on this to be schizophrenic because on one end they > are proclaiming an open and free internet and taking extraordinary measures > to criticise threats to an open internet yet are going to extraordinary > lengths to go around the world by sending their highest political officer > to gain momentum for the TPP. > > > It brings to mind that nations at the end of the day are about interests > and "as long as it suits them". I will also hasten to add that there are > many citizens in the US who are also wanting greater transparency around > the TPP negotiations as it is likely to impact the architecture of the > Internet and the rules of the game. > > > Kind Regards, > > Sala > > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Sat Sep 22 00:56:53 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 16:56:53 +1200 Subject: [governance] USPTO blocks web access to "Political/Activist Groups" including KEI, ACLU, EFF, Public Citizen, Redstate, DailyKos In-Reply-To: <010a01cd974d$c9ea1690$5dbe43b0$@jstyre.com> References: <505AD20B.8030308@gmail.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D48408998@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> <010a01cd974d$c9ea1690$5dbe43b0$@jstyre.com> Message-ID: > > Snip > James Tyre: > How any of the blacklisted sites could be found to be terrorist sites is > incomprehensible. This was never supposed to be a pretty standard filter. > **** > > ** ** > > Incidentally, the filter is the handiwork of Blue Coat, which did such a > marvelous job of promoting free expression on the Internet in Syria, among > other places, see, e.g., > https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/10/blue-coat-acknowledges-syrian-government-use-its-products > **** > > ** > What is also worrying is that here you have both US and Syria using the same contractor, in this case Blue Coat to or "filter" to block access. We are seeing the trends in both developed democracies and countries where democracy is still a challenge that freedom of expression. Today I was visiting the USPTO, for a high level meeting on global > negotiations on intellectual property and access to medicine. The meeting > was held in the Stockholm Room, on the 2nd floor of the USPTO library, at > the main USPTO building at 600 Dulany Street, Alexandria, VA. The USPTO > also uses these meeting rooms for its Global Intellectual Property Academy > (GIPA). The USPTO offers free Wifi for the visitors. But when I tried to > login to http://keionline.org, I received this message:**** > > Access Denied (content_filter_denied) **** > > Your request was denied because this URL contains content that is > categorized as: "Political/Activist Groups" which is blocked by USPTO > policy. If you believe the categorization is inaccurate, please contact the > USPTO Service Desk and request a manual review of the URL.**** > > For assistance, contact USPTO OCIO IT Service Desk. (io-proxy4)**** > > We checked and found that the USPTO blocks access to a number of groups > that have followed SOPA and the TPP intellectual property negotiations, > particularly those critical of the USPTO positions on intellectual property > issues. Among the NGOs that were blocked were aclu.org, cdt.org, > citizen.org, eff.org, healthgap.org, keionline.org and publicknowledge.org. > Among the sites NOT BLOCKED were the industry lobby groups BSA, MPPA, RIIA, > and PhRMA. **** > > The USPTO also selectively blocks certain blogs and new sites, including, > for example, dailykos.coms, firedoglake.com, redstate.org, > rushlimbaugh.com and talkingpointsmemo.com., **** > > Here are examples of what the USPTO blocks, and does not block. **** > > *Blocked NGOs***** > > aclu.org > cdt.org > citizen.org > eff.org > healthgap.org > keionline.org > publicknowledge.org **** > > *NGOs that are NOT blocked***** > > bsa.org > creativecommons.org > iipa.com > iipi.org > ipi.org > mpaa.org > PhRMA.org > pubpat.org > RIIA.Org > stockholm-network.org **** > > *Blocked Blogs and news outlets***** > > dailykos.coms > firedoglake.com > redstate.org > rushlimbaugh.com > talkingpointsmemo.com **** > > *Blogs and new outlets that are NOT blocked ***** > > 71patent.blogspot.com > aljazeera.com > boingboing.net > dailycaller.com > democracynow.org > drudgereport.com > groklaw.net > huffingtonpost.com > ip-watch.org > itcblog.com > lessig.org > michaelgeist.ca > nationalreview.com > spicyipindia.blogspot.com > techdirt.com > washingtonmonthly.com **** > > - James Love's blog **** > - Add new comment > **** > - Printer-friendly version **** > - Send by email **** > > *Cause of foul up * > > Submitted by Anonymous dude or dudess on 19. September 2012 - 12:02. **** > > 'Ex-Patent Examiner here. If this was anything other than a contractor > foul-up, I'll eat my hat. There were a dozen instances where I'd need to > call the help desk to access a website that would enable me to do my job.' > If true, this means no one at USPTO tried to access those sites and asked > for the filter to be removed since it was implemented.**** > > - reply **** > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t**** > > > > **** > > ** ** > > -- **** > > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala**** > > P.O. Box 17862**** > > Suva**** > > Fiji**** > > ** ** > > Twitter: @SalanietaT**** > > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro**** > > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851**** > > ** ** > > **** > > ** ** > > ** ** > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From dvbirve at yandex.ru Sat Sep 22 07:48:05 2012 From: dvbirve at yandex.ru (Shcherbovich Andrey) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 15:48:05 +0400 Subject: [governance] How to Block Pornographic Websites Message-ID: <976351348314485@web1d.yandex.ru> Dear colleagues. In Russia there is a criminal pornographic website http:\\shockmodels.info Child porn, cyberslapping, bullying, fraud. It has different mirrors in Germany, Czech Rep. and other countries. Please tell me how to block it generally. Is there a way to go? Thank you! Andrey -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From aldo.matteucci at gmail.com Sat Sep 22 07:59:40 2012 From: aldo.matteucci at gmail.com (Aldo Matteucci) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 13:59:40 +0200 Subject: [governance] How to Block Pornographic Websites In-Reply-To: <976351348314485@web1d.yandex.ru> References: <976351348314485@web1d.yandex.ru> Message-ID: and since you are on the topic, also let me know how come youTube systematically blocks animal cruelty, but not cruelty among humans aldo On 22 September 2012 13:48, Shcherbovich Andrey wrote: > Dear colleagues. > > In Russia there is a criminal pornographic website http:\\shockmodels.infoChild porn, cyberslapping, bullying, fraud. It has different mirrors in > Germany, Czech Rep. and other countries. Please tell me how to block it > generally. Is there a way to go? > > Thank you! > > Andrey > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Aldo Matteucci 65, Pourtalèsstr. CH 3074 MURI b. Bern Switzerland aldo.matteucci at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From williams.deirdre at gmail.com Sat Sep 22 09:06:50 2012 From: williams.deirdre at gmail.com (Deirdre Williams) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 09:06:50 -0400 Subject: [governance] How to Block Pornographic Websites In-Reply-To: References: <976351348314485@web1d.yandex.ru> Message-ID: Or why Facebook objects so much to nipples (see Marilia's posts) but needs a private campaign to "end illicit images and videos of children being posted and shared on their website". Deirdre On 22 September 2012 07:59, Aldo Matteucci wrote: > and since you are on the topic, also let me know how come youTube > systematically blocks animal cruelty, > but not cruelty among humans > > aldo > > On 22 September 2012 13:48, Shcherbovich Andrey wrote: > >> Dear colleagues. >> >> In Russia there is a criminal pornographic website http:\\ >> shockmodels.info Child porn, cyberslapping, bullying, fraud. It has >> different mirrors in Germany, Czech Rep. and other countries. Please tell >> me how to block it generally. Is there a way to go? >> >> Thank you! >> >> Andrey >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > > -- > Aldo Matteucci > 65, Pourtalèsstr. > CH 3074 MURI b. Bern > Switzerland > aldo.matteucci at gmail.com > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- “The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From jcurran at istaff.org Sat Sep 22 10:36:28 2012 From: jcurran at istaff.org (John Curran) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 10:36:28 -0400 Subject: [governance] How to Block Pornographic Websites In-Reply-To: <976351348314485@web1d.yandex.ru> References: <976351348314485@web1d.yandex.ru> Message-ID: On Sep 22, 2012, at 7:48 AM, Shcherbovich Andrey wrote: > Dear colleagues. > > In Russia there is a criminal pornographic website http:\\shockmodels.info Child porn, cyberslapping, bullying, fraud. It has different mirrors in Germany, Czech Rep. and other countries. Please tell me how to block it generally. Is there a way to go? Andrey - Blocking of websites is fairly difficult due to their ability to rapidly change both domain names and their hosted IP address. However, production and distribution of child pornography is nearly universally recognized as a criminal matter and as such there are additional steps one should consider. Note - I do not know what can be done about the other categories that you have identified (nor even whether they represent a criminal matter), but with respect to child pornography, please report it promptly here: Click on banner at the top of the page entitled "MAKE A CYBERTIPLINE REPORT ->" This information will reviewed and made available to USG Internet Crimes Against Children (ICAC) Task Forces, as well as pertinent international federal, state, and international authorities. Thank you! /John -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From aldo.matteucci at gmail.com Sat Sep 22 10:41:25 2012 From: aldo.matteucci at gmail.com (Aldo Matteucci) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 16:41:25 +0200 Subject: [governance] How to Block Pornographic Websites In-Reply-To: References: <976351348314485@web1d.yandex.ru> Message-ID: John, this is fine, and importan but misses the point. This is what we as users can do, not what the provider is able to do preventively. youTube seems to be able to screen in some areas, and declares itself unable to do the same for other areas. If they can elide animal cruelty, why can't they use the same algorithms for people? Or do we scream differently than a tortured dog or cat? Please advise Aldo On 22 September 2012 16:36, John Curran wrote: > On Sep 22, 2012, at 7:48 AM, Shcherbovich Andrey > wrote: > > > Dear colleagues. > > > > In Russia there is a criminal pornographic website http:\\ > shockmodels.info Child porn, cyberslapping, bullying, fraud. It has > different mirrors in Germany, Czech Rep. and other countries. Please tell > me how to block it generally. Is there a way to go? > > Andrey - > > Blocking of websites is fairly difficult due to their ability to rapidly > change both domain names and their hosted IP address. However, production > and distribution of child pornography is nearly universally recognized > as a criminal matter and as such there are additional steps one should > consider. > > Note - I do not know what can be done about the other categories that > you have identified (nor even whether they represent a criminal matter), > but with respect to child pornography, please report it promptly here: > > < > http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PageServlet?LanguageCountry=en_US&PageId=2936 > > > > Click on banner at the top of the page entitled "MAKE A CYBERTIPLINE > REPORT ->" > > This information will reviewed and made available to USG Internet Crimes > Against Children (ICAC) Task Forces, as well as pertinent international > federal, state, and international authorities. > > Thank you! > /John > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Aldo Matteucci 65, Pourtalèsstr. CH 3074 MURI b. Bern Switzerland aldo.matteucci at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Sat Sep 22 10:42:08 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 20:12:08 +0530 Subject: [governance] How to Block Pornographic Websites In-Reply-To: References: <976351348314485@web1d.yandex.ru> Message-ID: One method that's worked for me in the past (I use this when I see lots of spam from a domain/IP) is to use Whois and identify the registrar or last allocation authority, then complain to the registrar/authority in question. Usually quite fast, the longest delay I've seen in action was 2 weeks. Plus if they maintain a blacklist or something perhaps a long term effect could happen. -C On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 8:06 PM, John Curran wrote: > On Sep 22, 2012, at 7:48 AM, Shcherbovich Andrey > wrote: > > > Dear colleagues. > > > > In Russia there is a criminal pornographic website http:\\ > shockmodels.info Child porn, cyberslapping, bullying, fraud. It has > different mirrors in Germany, Czech Rep. and other countries. Please tell > me how to block it generally. Is there a way to go? > > Andrey - > > Blocking of websites is fairly difficult due to their ability to rapidly > change both domain names and their hosted IP address. However, production > and distribution of child pornography is nearly universally recognized > as a criminal matter and as such there are additional steps one should > consider. > > Note - I do not know what can be done about the other categories that > you have identified (nor even whether they represent a criminal matter), > but with respect to child pornography, please report it promptly here: > > < > http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PageServlet?LanguageCountry=en_US&PageId=2936 > > > > Click on banner at the top of the page entitled "MAKE A CYBERTIPLINE > REPORT ->" > > This information will reviewed and made available to USG Internet Crimes > Against Children (ICAC) Task Forces, as well as pertinent international > federal, state, and international authorities. > > Thank you! > /John > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Sat Sep 22 10:46:43 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 20:16:43 +0530 Subject: [governance] How to Block Pornographic Websites In-Reply-To: References: <976351348314485@web1d.yandex.ru> Message-ID: The option I noted was also from an end-user (or service manager) point of view - I've rarely seen providers be very proactive about content - usually items that are auto-screened vanish quickly - but otherwise manual comments/reports are needed before they even know about the fact. (This is strangely overlapping with our 'freedom of speech' and 'censorship' discussion - or am I the only one who feels that way?) -C On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 8:11 PM, Aldo Matteucci wrote: > John, > > this is fine, and importan but misses the point. This is what we as users > can do, not what the provider is able to do preventively. > > youTube seems to be able to screen in some areas, and declares itself > unable to do the same for other areas. If they can elide animal cruelty, > why can't they use the same algorithms for people? Or do we scream > differently than a tortured dog or cat? > > Please advise > > Aldo > > On 22 September 2012 16:36, John Curran wrote: > >> On Sep 22, 2012, at 7:48 AM, Shcherbovich Andrey >> wrote: >> >> > Dear colleagues. >> > >> > In Russia there is a criminal pornographic website http:\\ >> shockmodels.info Child porn, cyberslapping, bullying, fraud. It has >> different mirrors in Germany, Czech Rep. and other countries. Please tell >> me how to block it generally. Is there a way to go? >> >> Andrey - >> >> Blocking of websites is fairly difficult due to their ability to rapidly >> change both domain names and their hosted IP address. However, >> production >> and distribution of child pornography is nearly universally recognized >> as a criminal matter and as such there are additional steps one should >> consider. >> >> Note - I do not know what can be done about the other categories that >> you have identified (nor even whether they represent a criminal matter), >> but with respect to child pornography, please report it promptly here: >> >> < >> http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PageServlet?LanguageCountry=en_US&PageId=2936 >> > >> >> Click on banner at the top of the page entitled "MAKE A CYBERTIPLINE >> REPORT ->" >> >> This information will reviewed and made available to USG Internet Crimes >> Against Children (ICAC) Task Forces, as well as pertinent international >> federal, state, and international authorities. >> >> Thank you! >> /John >> >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > > -- > Aldo Matteucci > 65, Pourtalèsstr. > CH 3074 MURI b. Bern > Switzerland > aldo.matteucci at gmail.com > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From jcurran at istaff.org Sat Sep 22 11:14:47 2012 From: jcurran at istaff.org (John Curran) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 11:14:47 -0400 Subject: [governance] How to Block Pornographic Websites In-Reply-To: References: <976351348314485@web1d.yandex.ru> Message-ID: <572DE0FE-B5B0-4D38-8E36-75745F7F8168@istaff.org> On Sep 22, 2012, at 10:46 AM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar wrote: > The option I noted was also from an end-user (or service manager) point of view - I've rarely seen providers be very proactive about content - usually items that are auto-screened vanish quickly - but otherwise manual comments/reports are needed before they even know about the fact. > > (This is strangely overlapping with our 'freedom of speech' and 'censorship' discussion - or am I the only one who feels that way?) Indeed. In the perfect world, such reports would nearly always result in appropriate action by service providers, and the occasional escalation to law enforcement anywhere would result (by prompt liaison) with the incident being investigated by law enforcement with the relevant experience and jurisdiction over the service provider serving questioned content, regardless of the nature of the concern or dispute. Until that perfect world is found, in my humble opinion, it would be best if freedom of speech and commercial disputes wound their way through the existing national and international mechanisms for inter-governmental cooperation, thus enjoying a benefit of the doubt and a preference against undue action by governments towards parties in another country. My own views are quite different w.r.t child pornography (due to the nature of the victims) and present US law enforcement mechanisms on the Internet turn out to be similarly aligned. Folks should be aware that a CyberTipLine report which is reasonably credible upon review can result in notices for action to any and all electronic service providers which are facilitating the distribution of the materials, regardless of its actual physical location on the Internet. I am told that existing US law is far reaching with respect to range of actions for knowingly failing to comply with such notices, including accessory criminal liability for dissemination of child pornography. FYI, /John Disclaimers: My views alone. This email message is provided AS-IS, without warranty, including implied warranty for suitability for any purpose. This email message is not to be used for navigation to "the perfect world" and author is not liable for any such use. You are ultimately responsible for relying upon your own information, sources, and judgement to reach "the perfect world". -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From dvbirve at yandex.ru Sat Sep 22 11:28:29 2012 From: dvbirve at yandex.ru (Shcherbovich Andrey) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 19:28:29 +0400 Subject: [governance] How to Block Pornographic Websites In-Reply-To: <572DE0FE-B5B0-4D38-8E36-75745F7F8168@istaff.org> References: <976351348314485@web1d.yandex.ru> <572DE0FE-B5B0-4D38-8E36-75745F7F8168@istaff.org> Message-ID: <1037991348327709@web22f.yandex.ru> Thank you all people, I will do everything possible. As for the freedom discussion, we will organize as workshop in Baku for these matters (No 134) Now i am going to make a practical thing. BUT, if we would have an universal authority to ban definately criminal content (maybe IGF-based?) With regards, Andrey 22.09.2012, 19:14, "John Curran" : > On Sep 22, 2012, at 10:46 AM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar wrote: > >>  The option I noted was also from an end-user (or service manager) point of view - I've rarely seen providers be very proactive about content - usually items that are auto-screened vanish quickly - but otherwise manual comments/reports are needed before they even know about the fact. >> >>  (This is strangely overlapping with our 'freedom of speech' and 'censorship' discussion - or am I the only one who feels that way?) > > Indeed.  In the perfect world, such reports would nearly always result in appropriate action > by service providers, and the occasional escalation to law enforcement anywhere would > result (by prompt liaison) with the incident being investigated by law enforcement with the > relevant experience and jurisdiction over the service provider serving questioned content, > regardless of the nature of the concern or dispute. > > Until that perfect world is found, in my humble opinion, it would be best if freedom of speech > and commercial disputes wound their way through the existing national and international > mechanisms for inter-governmental cooperation, thus enjoying a benefit of the doubt and > a preference against undue action by governments towards parties in another country. > > My own views are quite different w.r.t child pornography (due to the nature of the victims) > and present US law enforcement mechanisms on the Internet turn out to be similarly aligned. > Folks should be aware that a CyberTipLine report which is reasonably credible upon review > can result in notices for action to any and all electronic service providers which are facilitating > the distribution of the materials, regardless of its actual physical location on the Internet. > I am told that existing US law is far reaching with respect to range of actions for knowingly > failing to comply with such notices, including accessory criminal liability for dissemination > of child pornography. > > FYI, > /John > > Disclaimers:  My views alone.   This email message is provided AS-IS, without warranty, > including implied warranty for suitability for any purpose.  This email message is not to be > used for navigation to "the perfect world" and author is not liable for any such use.  You > are ultimately responsible for relying upon your own information, sources, and judgement > to reach "the perfect world". > > , > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >      governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: >      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: >      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >      http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ms.narine.khachatryan at gmail.com Sat Sep 22 12:18:32 2012 From: ms.narine.khachatryan at gmail.com (Narine Khachatryan) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 20:18:32 +0400 Subject: [governance] How to Block Pornographic Websites In-Reply-To: <1037991348327709@web22f.yandex.ru> References: <976351348314485@web1d.yandex.ru> <572DE0FE-B5B0-4D38-8E36-75745F7F8168@istaff.org> <1037991348327709@web22f.yandex.ru> Message-ID: Dear Andrey, There is a Russian organization Friendly Runet Foundation ( http://www.friendlyrunet.ru/en/index.phtml) which operates a hotline and examines users' reports concerning web sites with illegal content. Moreover, Friendly Runet is an INHOPE member, cooperation with which helps to quickly achieve the removal of illegal content hosted in other countries. INHOPE - an International Association of Internet Hotlines all over the world, (about 40 hotlines to the moment) ensure that the matter is investigated and if found to be illegal the information is passed to the relevant law enforcement agency, etc. Regards, Narine -- Media Education Center Yerevan, Armenia www.safe.am www.mediaeducation.am -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From jcurran at istaff.org Sat Sep 22 12:32:18 2012 From: jcurran at istaff.org (John Curran) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 12:32:18 -0400 Subject: [governance] How to Block Pornographic Websites In-Reply-To: References: <976351348314485@web1d.yandex.ru> <572DE0FE-B5B0-4D38-8E36-75745F7F8168@istaff.org> <1037991348327709@web22f.yandex.ru> Message-ID: <706F0C0E-CC16-486A-AFE7-9A6C9B65C4B2@istaff.org> On Sep 22, 2012, at 12:18 PM, Narine Khachatryan wrote: > Dear Andrey, > > There is a Russian organization Friendly Runet Foundation (http://www.friendlyrunet.ru/en/index.phtml) which operates a hotline and examines users' reports concerning web sites with illegal content. Moreover, Friendly Runet is an INHOPE member, cooperation with which helps to quickly achieve the removal of illegal content hosted in other countries. > > INHOPE - an International Association of Internet Hotlines all over the world, (about 40 hotlines to the moment) ensure that the matter is investigated and if found to be illegal the information is passed to the relevant law enforcement agency, etc. Narine - Thanks for the pointer to the Friendly Runet Foundation, and also INHOPE! INHOPE in particular is particularly valuable to know about, since getting initial reports to the right place early in the process is very helpful. I was unaware of them but they will likely soon become one of my most frequent referrals of inquiries. Thanks again! /John Disclaimer: My views alone. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From dvbirve at yandex.ru Sat Sep 22 12:40:33 2012 From: dvbirve at yandex.ru (Shcherbovich Andrey) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 20:40:33 +0400 Subject: [governance] How to Block Pornographic Websites In-Reply-To: <706F0C0E-CC16-486A-AFE7-9A6C9B65C4B2@istaff.org> References: <976351348314485@web1d.yandex.ru> <572DE0FE-B5B0-4D38-8E36-75745F7F8168@istaff.org> <1037991348327709@web22f.yandex.ru> <706F0C0E-CC16-486A-AFE7-9A6C9B65C4B2@istaff.org> Message-ID: <578681348332033@web28f.yandex.ru> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ms.narine.khachatryan at gmail.com Sat Sep 22 12:53:02 2012 From: ms.narine.khachatryan at gmail.com (Narine Khachatryan) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 20:53:02 +0400 Subject: [governance] How to Block Pornographic Websites In-Reply-To: <578681348332033@web28f.yandex.ru> References: <976351348314485@web1d.yandex.ru> <572DE0FE-B5B0-4D38-8E36-75745F7F8168@istaff.org> <1037991348327709@web22f.yandex.ru> <706F0C0E-CC16-486A-AFE7-9A6C9B65C4B2@istaff.org> <578681348332033@web28f.yandex.ru> Message-ID: Dear John, The organization you mentioned the US-based National Center for Missing and Exploited Children is part of INHOPE network http://www.ncmec.org/missingkids/servlet/PublicHomeServlet?LanguageCountry=en_US . Yes, it is important to report to right place, and in cases when an illegal content is hosted abroad and the procedure of removing it across borders can be long-lasting and ineffective, INHOPE can help. Regards, Narine On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 8:40 PM, Shcherbovich Andrey wrote: > Colleagues, I've applied to the Friendly Runet, but at the time there is > no answer. > > Maybe there is better to contact them directly, not by the form. I'm in > Moscow now. > > Regards, Andrey > > 22.09.2012, 20:32, "John Curran" : > > On Sep 22, 2012, at 12:18 PM, Narine Khachatryan < > ms.narine.khachatryan at gmail.com> wrote: > > Dear Andrey, > > There is a Russian organization Friendly Runet Foundation ( > http://www.friendlyrunet.ru/en/index.phtml) which operates a hotline and > examines users' reports concerning web sites with illegal content. > Moreover, Friendly Runet is an INHOPE member, cooperation with which helps > to quickly achieve the removal of illegal content hosted in other > countries. > > INHOPE - an International Association of Internet Hotlines all over the > world, (about 40 hotlines to the moment) ensure that the matter is > investigated and if found to be illegal the information is passed to the > relevant law enforcement agency, etc. > > Narine - > > Thanks for the pointer to the Friendly Runet Foundation, and also > INHOPE! > INHOPE in particular is particularly valuable to know about, since > getting > initial reports to the right place early in the process is very > helpful. I was > unaware of them but they will likely soon become one of my most frequent > referrals of inquiries. > Thanks again! > /John > Disclaimer: My views alone. > > -- Media Education Center Yerevan, Armenia www.mediaeducation.am www.safe.am www.immasin.am -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ca at cafonso.ca Sat Sep 22 13:38:29 2012 From: ca at cafonso.ca (Carlos A. Afonso) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 14:38:29 -0300 Subject: [governance] How to Block Pornographic Websites In-Reply-To: <976351348314485@web1d.yandex.ru> References: <976351348314485@web1d.yandex.ru> Message-ID: <505DF795.5050201@cafonso.ca> Hmmmm.... The domain is held by a Larisa I Pshemiska, based in Prague. From here (BR) shockmodels.info pings to IP 188.138.84.202, part of a /16 IPv4 block assigned by RIPE/NCC to PLUSSERVER-AS PlusServer AG, Germany. The site uses DNS servers from Host29 Ltd, based in London, UK. So, maybe not Russian at all... --c.a. On 09/22/2012 08:48 AM, Shcherbovich Andrey wrote: > Dear colleagues. > > In Russia there is a criminal pornographic website http:\\shockmodels.info Child porn, cyberslapping, bullying, fraud. It has different mirrors in Germany, Czech Rep. and other countries. Please tell me how to block it generally. Is there a way to go? > > Thank you! > > Andrey > -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From nhklein at gmx.net Sat Sep 22 14:26:14 2012 From: nhklein at gmx.net (Norbert Klein) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 01:26:14 +0700 Subject: [governance] How to Block Pornographic Websites In-Reply-To: <505DF795.5050201@cafonso.ca> References: <976351348314485@web1d.yandex.ru> <505DF795.5050201@cafonso.ca> Message-ID: <505E02C6.7090308@gmx.net> +1 - thanks Carlos, for checking the technical operators, some work; - they are not secret. So who is going to start the legal processes? More work. Norbert Klein = On 9/23/2012 12:38 AM, Carlos A. Afonso wrote: > Hmmmm.... The domain is held by a Larisa I Pshemiska, based in Prague. > > From here (BR) shockmodels.info pings to IP 188.138.84.202, part of a > /16 IPv4 block assigned by RIPE/NCC to PLUSSERVER-AS PlusServer AG, > Germany. > > The site uses DNS servers from Host29 Ltd, based in London, UK. > > So, maybe not Russian at all... > > --c.a. > > On 09/22/2012 08:48 AM, Shcherbovich Andrey wrote: >> Dear colleagues. >> >> In Russia there is a criminal pornographic website >> http:\\shockmodels.info Child porn, cyberslapping, bullying, fraud. >> It has different mirrors in Germany, Czech Rep. and other countries. >> Please tell me how to block it generally. Is there a way to go? >> >> Thank you! >> >> Andrey >> > -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From bavouc at gmail.com Sat Sep 22 16:17:26 2012 From: bavouc at gmail.com (Martial Bavou[Private Business Account]) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 21:17:26 +0100 Subject: [governance] How to Block Pornographic Websites In-Reply-To: <976351348314485@web1d.yandex.ru> References: <976351348314485@web1d.yandex.ru> Message-ID: Dear All, Blocking a website may be a very difficult task as the owner may change DNS, change IP address, or redirection. But we have today countless stuff both software and hardware, some automatically filter nude image, so even if the website is open, image are blocked. The second option is to block using keyword in your firewall, Router, Access point depending on your network configuration. You may have to keep monitoring this, and add the keyword if the website owner change his IP. The last option is to make the website IP blacklisted, this may take some time to be active. Child Pornography is completely prohibited, for production, distribution and viewing in Cameroon, hope is the same legislation at your country level, so this case also need to be reported to your country Internet authority for prompt action. Also, I think discussion on Child Pornography need to be discussed in Major even such as IGF, and come out with policy for immediate application. Best Regards -----Original Message----- From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Shcherbovich Andrey Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 12:48 PM To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; governance at lists.cpsr.org Subject: [governance] How to Block Pornographic Websites Dear colleagues. In Russia there is a criminal pornographic website http:\\shockmodels.info Child porn, cyberslapping, bullying, fraud. It has different mirrors in Germany, Czech Rep. and other countries. Please tell me how to block it generally. Is there a way to go? Thank you! Andrey -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From gpaque at gmail.com Sat Sep 22 16:57:11 2012 From: gpaque at gmail.com (Ginger Paque) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 15:57:11 -0500 Subject: [governance] LAC IGF Remote Link Message-ID: Hi everyone, This is the preliminary link I have for the LAC IGF meetings to be held in Bogota Colombia next week. http://www.ustream.tv/channel/fgicolombia http://www.lacigf.org/en/lacigf5/index.html If I have more information later, I will let you know. We do hope you will join us online, starting Monday morning. Cheers, Ginger Ginger (Virginia) Paque VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu Diplo Foundation Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme www.diplomacy.edu/ig ** ** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ms.narine.khachatryan at gmail.com Sat Sep 22 17:01:30 2012 From: ms.narine.khachatryan at gmail.com (Narine Khachatryan) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 01:01:30 +0400 Subject: [governance] How to Block Pornographic Websites In-Reply-To: <1037991348327709@web22f.yandex.ru> References: <976351348314485@web1d.yandex.ru> <572DE0FE-B5B0-4D38-8E36-75745F7F8168@istaff.org> <1037991348327709@web22f.yandex.ru> Message-ID: On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 7:28 PM, Shcherbovich Andrey wrote: > > Now i am going to make a practical thing. BUT, if we would have an > universal authority to ban definately criminal content (maybe IGF-based?) > > The International Center for Missing and Exploited Children reported last year, that 89 countries have insufficient legislation to fight child pornography, about 52 countries do not define child pornography, 33 countries do not criminalize possession of child pornography, many countries do not mandate ISP reporting. Narine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From dvbirve at yandex.ru Sat Sep 22 18:32:38 2012 From: dvbirve at yandex.ru (Shcherbovich Andrey) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 02:32:38 +0400 Subject: [governance] How to Block Pornographic Websites In-Reply-To: <505E02C6.7090308@gmx.net> References: <976351348314485@web1d.yandex.ru> <505DF795.5050201@cafonso.ca> <505E02C6.7090308@gmx.net> Message-ID: <1104351348353158@web25g.yandex.ru> I'll start by contacting Russian domain administrator legal services. But I ask my IG colleagues for any assistance possible. ALSO, the problem is the victims don't like to go to any officials. SHOCKMODELS.INFO is a target website. It is pornographic, fraud, cyberslapping, etc. Thanks! Andrey 22.09.2012, 22:26, "Norbert Klein" : > +1  -  thanks Carlos, for checking the technical operators, some work; - > they are not secret. So who is going to start the legal processes? More > work. > > Norbert Klein > > = > > On 9/23/2012 12:38 AM, Carlos A. Afonso wrote: > >>  Hmmmm.... The domain is held by a Larisa I Pshemiska, based in Prague. >> >>  From here (BR) shockmodels.info pings to IP 188.138.84.202, part of a >>  /16 IPv4 block assigned by RIPE/NCC to PLUSSERVER-AS PlusServer AG, >>  Germany. >> >>  The site uses DNS servers from Host29 Ltd, based in London, UK. >> >>  So, maybe not Russian at all... >> >>  --c.a. >> >>  On 09/22/2012 08:48 AM, Shcherbovich Andrey wrote: >>>  Dear colleagues. >>> >>>  In Russia there is a criminal pornographic website >>>  http:\\shockmodels.info Child porn, cyberslapping, bullying, fraud. >>>  It has different mirrors in Germany, Czech Rep. and other countries. >>>  Please tell me how to block it generally. Is there a way to go? >>> >>>  Thank you! >>> >>>  Andrey > > , > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >      governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: >      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: >      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >      http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Sun Sep 23 01:15:15 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 10:45:15 +0530 Subject: [governance] How to Block Pornographic Websites In-Reply-To: <1104351348353158@web25g.yandex.ru> References: <976351348314485@web1d.yandex.ru> <505DF795.5050201@cafonso.ca> <505E02C6.7090308@gmx.net> <1104351348353158@web25g.yandex.ru> Message-ID: The IP is based in Germany - here's the relevant bits of the WHOIS if anyone would like to take this forward - I'm guessing they will need a formal request in two languages (english/german) as most formal/official requests are. role: NMC PlusServer AG address: PlusServer AG address: Daimlerstr. 9-11 address: 50354 Huerth phone: +49 1801 119991 fax-no: +49 2233 612-53500 abuse-mailbox: remarks: remarks: ******************************************************** remarks: * PLEASE READ CAREFULLY: * remarks: * and choose the right addresses for contacting our * remarks: * staff. * remarks: * This will fasten up processing your request ! * remarks: ******************************************************** remarks: * ABUSE-Complaints are only handled at: * remarks: * * remarks: ******************************************************** remarks: * Auskunftsersuchen gemaess TKG werden nur unter * remarks: * Fax: +49 2233 612 5150 * remarks: * bearbeitet! * remarks: ******************************************************** remarks: * Informational Contact: * remarks: * or http://www.plusserver.de * remarks: ******************************************************** remarks: remarks: ******************************************************** remarks: * If you have a routing-related request you * remarks: * may contact us at : * remarks: * Phone: +49 1801 119 991 * remarks: * Fax: +49 2233 612 53500 * remarks: * * remarks: ******************************************************** On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 4:02 AM, Shcherbovich Andrey wrote: > > I'll start by contacting Russian domain administrator legal services. But > I ask my IG colleagues for any assistance possible. > > ALSO, the problem is the victims don't like to go to any officials. > > SHOCKMODELS.INFO is a target website. It is pornographic, fraud, > cyberslapping, etc. > > Thanks! > > Andrey > > 22.09.2012, 22:26, "Norbert Klein" : > > +1 - thanks Carlos, for checking the technical operators, some work; - > > they are not secret. So who is going to start the legal processes? More > > work. > > > > Norbert Klein > > > > = > > > > On 9/23/2012 12:38 AM, Carlos A. Afonso wrote: > > > >> Hmmmm.... The domain is held by a Larisa I Pshemiska, based in Prague. > >> > >> From here (BR) shockmodels.info pings to IP 188.138.84.202, part of a > >> /16 IPv4 block assigned by RIPE/NCC to PLUSSERVER-AS PlusServer AG, > >> Germany. > >> > >> The site uses DNS servers from Host29 Ltd, based in London, UK. > >> > >> So, maybe not Russian at all... > >> > >> --c.a. > >> > >> On 09/22/2012 08:48 AM, Shcherbovich Andrey wrote: > >>> Dear colleagues. > >>> > >>> In Russia there is a criminal pornographic website > >>> http:\\shockmodels.info Child porn, cyberslapping, bullying, fraud. > >>> It has different mirrors in Germany, Czech Rep. and other countries. > >>> Please tell me how to block it generally. Is there a way to go? > >>> > >>> Thank you! > >>> > >>> Andrey > > > > , > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > > To be removed from the list, visit: > > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > > > For all other list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From apisan at unam.mx Sun Sep 23 02:44:47 2012 From: apisan at unam.mx (Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 06:44:47 +0000 Subject: [governance] How to Block Pornographic Websites In-Reply-To: References: <976351348314485@web1d.yandex.ru> <505DF795.5050201@cafonso.ca> <505E02C6.7090308@gmx.net> <1104351348353158@web25g.yandex.ru>, Message-ID: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D4840B9ED@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> Chaitanya, in this quest, how relevant is whois data accuracy, for the IP address and for the domain name registration? Alejandro Pisanty ! !! !!! !!!! NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475 Dr. Alejandro Pisanty UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ________________________________ Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Chaitanya Dhareshwar [chaitanyabd at gmail.com] Enviado el: domingo, 23 de septiembre de 2012 00:15 Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Shcherbovich Andrey CC: Norbert Klein; governance at lists.cpsr.org Asunto: Re: [governance] How to Block Pornographic Websites The IP is based in Germany - here's the relevant bits of the WHOIS if anyone would like to take this forward - I'm guessing they will need a formal request in two languages (english/german) as most formal/official requests are. role: NMC PlusServer AG address: PlusServer AG address: Daimlerstr. 9-11 address: 50354 Huerth phone: +49 1801 119991 fax-no: +49 2233 612-53500 abuse-mailbox: [http://source.domaintools.com/email.pgif?md5=1a4661cdd0ab51368ea534cb5db427a9&face=arial&size=9&color=000000&bgcolor=FFFFFF&face=arial&size=9&color=0000FF&bgcolor=FFFFFF&format[]=underline&format[]=transparent&format[]=transparent] remarks: remarks: ******************************************************** remarks: * PLEASE READ CAREFULLY: * remarks: * and choose the right addresses for contacting our * remarks: * staff. * remarks: * This will fasten up processing your request ! * remarks: ******************************************************** remarks: * ABUSE-Complaints are only handled at: * remarks: * [http://source.domaintools.com/email.pgif?md5=1a4661cdd0ab51368ea534cb5db427a9&face=arial&size=9&color=000000&bgcolor=FFFFFF&face=arial&size=9&color=0000FF&bgcolor=FFFFFF&format[]=underline&format[]=transparent&format[]=transparent] * remarks: ******************************************************** remarks: * Auskunftsersuchen gemaess TKG werden nur unter * remarks: * Fax: +49 2233 612 5150 * remarks: * bearbeitet! * remarks: ******************************************************** remarks: * Informational Contact: [http://source.domaintools.com/email.pgif?md5=a9e9b3dabd3db88d7415e857263f3d04&face=arial&size=9&color=000000&bgcolor=FFFFFF&face=arial&size=9&color=0000FF&bgcolor=FFFFFF&format[]=underline&format[]=transparent&format[]=transparent] * remarks: * or http://www.plusserver.de * remarks: ******************************************************** remarks: remarks: ******************************************************** remarks: * If you have a routing-related request you * remarks: * may contact us at : * remarks: * Phone: +49 1801 119 991 * remarks: * Fax: +49 2233 612 53500 * remarks: * * remarks: ******************************************************** On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 4:02 AM, Shcherbovich Andrey > wrote: I'll start by contacting Russian domain administrator legal services. But I ask my IG colleagues for any assistance possible. ALSO, the problem is the victims don't like to go to any officials. SHOCKMODELS.INFO is a target website. It is pornographic, fraud, cyberslapping, etc. Thanks! Andrey 22.09.2012, 22:26, "Norbert Klein" >: > +1 - thanks Carlos, for checking the technical operators, some work; - > they are not secret. So who is going to start the legal processes? More > work. > > Norbert Klein > > = > > On 9/23/2012 12:38 AM, Carlos A. Afonso wrote: > >> Hmmmm.... The domain is held by a Larisa I Pshemiska, based in Prague. >> >> From here (BR) shockmodels.info pings to IP 188.138.84.202, part of a >> /16 IPv4 block assigned by RIPE/NCC to PLUSSERVER-AS PlusServer AG, >> Germany. >> >> The site uses DNS servers from Host29 Ltd, based in London, UK. >> >> So, maybe not Russian at all... >> >> --c.a. >> >> On 09/22/2012 08:48 AM, Shcherbovich Andrey wrote: >>> Dear colleagues. >>> >>> In Russia there is a criminal pornographic website >>> http:\\shockmodels.info Child porn, cyberslapping, bullying, fraud. >>> It has different mirrors in Germany, Czech Rep. and other countries. >>> Please tell me how to block it generally. Is there a way to go? >>> >>> Thank you! >>> >>> Andrey > > , > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Sun Sep 23 02:46:48 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 15:46:48 +0900 Subject: [governance] How to Block Pornographic Websites In-Reply-To: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D4840B9ED@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> References: <976351348314485@web1d.yandex.ru> <505DF795.5050201@cafonso.ca> <505E02C6.7090308@gmx.net> <1104351348353158@web25g.yandex.ru> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D4840B9ED@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> Message-ID: I know where you're getting at Alejandro, and I tend to agree. Fahd On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 3:44 PM, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch < apisan at unam.mx> wrote: > Chaitanya, > > in this quest, how relevant is whois data accuracy, for the IP address > and for the domain name registration? > > Alejandro Pisanty > > > ! !! !!! !!!! > NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO > > > > +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD > > +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO > > SMS +525541444475 > Dr. Alejandro Pisanty > UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico > > Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty > Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, > http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 > Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty > ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > ------------------------------ > *Desde:* governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [ > governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Chaitanya Dhareshwar [ > chaitanyabd at gmail.com] > *Enviado el:* domingo, 23 de septiembre de 2012 00:15 > *Hasta:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Shcherbovich Andrey > *CC:* Norbert Klein; governance at lists.cpsr.org > *Asunto:* Re: [governance] How to Block Pornographic Websites > > The IP is based in Germany - here's the relevant bits of the WHOIS if > anyone would like to take this forward - I'm guessing they will need a > formal request in two languages (english/german) as most formal/official > requests are. > > role: NMC PlusServer AG > address: PlusServer AG > address: Daimlerstr. 9-11 > address: 50354 Huerth > phone: +49 1801 119991 > fax-no: +49 2233 612-53500 > abuse-mailbox: > remarks: > remarks: ******************************************************** > remarks: * PLEASE READ CAREFULLY: * > remarks: * and choose the right addresses for contacting our * > remarks: * staff. * > remarks: * This will fasten up processing your request ! * > remarks: ******************************************************** > remarks: * ABUSE-Complaints are only handled at: * > remarks: * * > remarks: ******************************************************** > remarks: * Auskunftsersuchen gemaess TKG werden nur unter * > remarks: * Fax: +49 2233 612 5150 * > remarks: * bearbeitet! * > remarks: ******************************************************** > remarks: * Informational Contact: * > remarks: * or http://www.plusserver.de * > remarks: ******************************************************** > remarks: > remarks: ******************************************************** > remarks: * If you have a routing-related request you * > remarks: * may contact us at : * > remarks: * Phone: +49 1801 119 991 * > remarks: * Fax: +49 2233 612 53500 * > remarks: * * > remarks: ******************************************************** > > On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 4:02 AM, Shcherbovich Andrey wrote: > >> >> I'll start by contacting Russian domain administrator legal services. But >> I ask my IG colleagues for any assistance possible. >> >> ALSO, the problem is the victims don't like to go to any officials. >> >> SHOCKMODELS.INFO is a target website. It is pornographic, fraud, >> cyberslapping, etc. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Andrey >> >> 22.09.2012, 22:26, "Norbert Klein" : >> > +1 - thanks Carlos, for checking the technical operators, some >> work; - >> > they are not secret. So who is going to start the legal processes? More >> > work. >> > >> > Norbert Klein >> > >> > = >> > >> > On 9/23/2012 12:38 AM, Carlos A. Afonso wrote: >> > >> >> Hmmmm.... The domain is held by a Larisa I Pshemiska, based in Prague. >> >> >> >> From here (BR) shockmodels.info pings to IP 188.138.84.202, part of a >> >> /16 IPv4 block assigned by RIPE/NCC to PLUSSERVER-AS PlusServer AG, >> >> Germany. >> >> >> >> The site uses DNS servers from Host29 Ltd, based in London, UK. >> >> >> >> So, maybe not Russian at all... >> >> >> >> --c.a. >> >> >> >> On 09/22/2012 08:48 AM, Shcherbovich Andrey wrote: >> >>> Dear colleagues. >> >>> >> >>> In Russia there is a criminal pornographic website >> >>> http:\\shockmodels.info Child porn, cyberslapping, bullying, fraud. >> >>> It has different mirrors in Germany, Czech Rep. and other countries. >> >>> Please tell me how to block it generally. Is there a way to go? >> >>> >> >>> Thank you! >> >>> >> >>> Andrey >> > >> > , >> > ____________________________________________________________ >> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> > governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> > To be removed from the list, visit: >> > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> > >> > For all other list information and functions, see: >> > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> > http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> > >> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Sun Sep 23 04:57:36 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 14:27:36 +0530 Subject: [governance] How to Block Pornographic Websites In-Reply-To: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D4840B9ED@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> References: <976351348314485@web1d.yandex.ru> <505DF795.5050201@cafonso.ca> <505E02C6.7090308@gmx.net> <1104351348353158@web25g.yandex.ru> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D4840B9ED@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> Message-ID: No you're right - in the long term it'll make little or no difference probably - but with the goal of removing this particular site it could help. Best regards, Chaitanya On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 12:14 PM, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch < apisan at unam.mx> wrote: > Chaitanya, > > in this quest, how relevant is whois data accuracy, for the IP address > and for the domain name registration? > > Alejandro Pisanty > > > ! !! !!! !!!! > NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO > > > > +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD > > +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO > > SMS +525541444475 > Dr. Alejandro Pisanty > UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico > > Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty > Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, > http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 > Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty > ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > ------------------------------ > *Desde:* governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [ > governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Chaitanya Dhareshwar [ > chaitanyabd at gmail.com] > *Enviado el:* domingo, 23 de septiembre de 2012 00:15 > *Hasta:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Shcherbovich Andrey > *CC:* Norbert Klein; governance at lists.cpsr.org > *Asunto:* Re: [governance] How to Block Pornographic Websites > > The IP is based in Germany - here's the relevant bits of the WHOIS if > anyone would like to take this forward - I'm guessing they will need a > formal request in two languages (english/german) as most formal/official > requests are. > > role: NMC PlusServer AG > address: PlusServer AG > address: Daimlerstr. 9-11 > address: 50354 Huerth > phone: +49 1801 119991 > fax-no: +49 2233 612-53500 > abuse-mailbox: > remarks: > remarks: ******************************************************** > remarks: * PLEASE READ CAREFULLY: * > remarks: * and choose the right addresses for contacting our * > remarks: * staff. * > remarks: * This will fasten up processing your request ! * > remarks: ******************************************************** > remarks: * ABUSE-Complaints are only handled at: * > remarks: * * > remarks: ******************************************************** > remarks: * Auskunftsersuchen gemaess TKG werden nur unter * > remarks: * Fax: +49 2233 612 5150 * > remarks: * bearbeitet! * > remarks: ******************************************************** > remarks: * Informational Contact: * > remarks: * or http://www.plusserver.de * > remarks: ******************************************************** > remarks: > remarks: ******************************************************** > remarks: * If you have a routing-related request you * > remarks: * may contact us at : * > remarks: * Phone: +49 1801 119 991 * > remarks: * Fax: +49 2233 612 53500 * > remarks: * * > remarks: ******************************************************** > > On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 4:02 AM, Shcherbovich Andrey wrote: > >> >> I'll start by contacting Russian domain administrator legal services. But >> I ask my IG colleagues for any assistance possible. >> >> ALSO, the problem is the victims don't like to go to any officials. >> >> SHOCKMODELS.INFO is a target website. It is pornographic, fraud, >> cyberslapping, etc. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Andrey >> >> 22.09.2012, 22:26, "Norbert Klein" : >> > +1 - thanks Carlos, for checking the technical operators, some >> work; - >> > they are not secret. So who is going to start the legal processes? More >> > work. >> > >> > Norbert Klein >> > >> > = >> > >> > On 9/23/2012 12:38 AM, Carlos A. Afonso wrote: >> > >> >> Hmmmm.... The domain is held by a Larisa I Pshemiska, based in Prague. >> >> >> >> From here (BR) shockmodels.info pings to IP 188.138.84.202, part of a >> >> /16 IPv4 block assigned by RIPE/NCC to PLUSSERVER-AS PlusServer AG, >> >> Germany. >> >> >> >> The site uses DNS servers from Host29 Ltd, based in London, UK. >> >> >> >> So, maybe not Russian at all... >> >> >> >> --c.a. >> >> >> >> On 09/22/2012 08:48 AM, Shcherbovich Andrey wrote: >> >>> Dear colleagues. >> >>> >> >>> In Russia there is a criminal pornographic website >> >>> http:\\shockmodels.info Child porn, cyberslapping, bullying, fraud. >> >>> It has different mirrors in Germany, Czech Rep. and other countries. >> >>> Please tell me how to block it generally. Is there a way to go? >> >>> >> >>> Thank you! >> >>> >> >>> Andrey >> > >> > , >> > ____________________________________________________________ >> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> > governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> > To be removed from the list, visit: >> > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> > >> > For all other list information and functions, see: >> > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> > http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> > >> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From nb at bollow.ch Sun Sep 23 05:08:30 2012 From: nb at bollow.ch (Norbert Bollow) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 11:08:30 +0200 Subject: [governance] 3322.org seized by Microsoft from Chinese DNS service provider Message-ID: <20120923110830.0038af8b@quill.bollow.ch> Krebs on Security: "Malware Dragnet Snags Millions of Infected PCs" http://krebsonsecurity.com/2012/09/malware-dragnet-snags-millions-of-infected-pcs/ (I'm more concerned about the innocent third parties affected by this kind of action, though. --Norbert.) "Last week, Microsoft Corp. made headlines when it scored an unconventional if not unprecedented legal victory: Convincing a U.S. court to let it seize control of a Chinese Internet service provider’s network as part of a crackdown on piracy..." -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From pouzin at well.com Sun Sep 23 07:12:22 2012 From: pouzin at well.com (Louis Pouzin (well)) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 13:12:22 +0200 Subject: [governance] 3322.org seized by Microsoft from Chinese DNS service provider In-Reply-To: <20120923110830.0038af8b@quill.bollow.ch> References: <20120923110830.0038af8b@quill.bollow.ch> Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 11:08 AM, Norbert Bollow wrote: > Krebs on Security: "Malware Dragnet Snags Millions of Infected PCs" > > http://krebsonsecurity.com/2012/09/malware-dragnet-snags-millions-of-infected-pcs/ > [snip] > Perhaps a coincidence, or a malicious google ad-sense, but the link above brought up an ad for the distinguished Kevin Mitnick's expertise. [image: Inline image 1] http://www.knowbe4.com/products/kevin-mitnick-security-awareness-training/ Whether this link points to a front door or a back door is not mentioned. More on Mitnick: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Mitnick.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 11626 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fouadbajwa at gmail.com Sun Sep 23 07:13:10 2012 From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Bajwa) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 16:13:10 +0500 Subject: [governance] Shutting down the mobile phone service means that you are shutting your own eyes and ears! Message-ID: A story that appeared in the Pakistani Daily Dawn sheds some light on what happened with the nation a day or two ago: http://dawn.com/2012/09/22/cellphone-service-rehman-malik-strikes-again/ As the story goes: One security agency official told Dawn: “Our job also became more troublesome. We could not get in touch with each other except those of us who were on wireless communication.” He then narrated a story from Oct 12, 1999, when the military coup happened. “The 111 Brigade had taken over the national telecommunication grid and we were considering jamming the cellphone communication also.” But he added that the military leadership immediately realised that this would be a mistake because the officers were using mobile phones to communicate with each other as federal government installations were being secured. “Shutting down the mobile phone service means that you are shutting your own eyes and ears. Communication is the backbone of swift intelligence operations in such crisis and rioting,” the official said." Yet another episode that sheds light on the "far-sightedness" and "intelligent thinking" of this stupid jerk who JUST. WON'T. QUIT! Rehman Malik, you are a bloody idiot. - - FoOdaFied! -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Sun Sep 23 08:09:25 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 21:09:25 +0900 Subject: [governance] Shutting down the mobile phone service means that you are shutting your own eyes and ears! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Fouad, there is a version of Pakistan's interior minister in almost every country in the world. They hold such high positions as means to add spice to an already yummy fiesta of corruption and political craziness. Bottom line, take it easy my friend :-) Will all have to live with it. Fahd On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 8:13 PM, Fouad Bajwa wrote: > A story that appeared in the Pakistani Daily Dawn sheds some light on what > happened with the nation a day or two ago: > > http://dawn.com/2012/09/22/cellphone-service-rehman-malik-strikes-again/ > > As the story goes: > > One security agency official told Dawn: “Our job also became more > troublesome. We could not get in touch with each other except those of us > who were on wireless communication.” > > He then narrated a story from Oct 12, 1999, when the military coup > happened. “The 111 Brigade had taken over the national telecommunication > grid and we were considering jamming the cellphone communication also.” But > he added that the military leadership immediately realised that this would > be a mistake because the officers were using mobile phones to communicate > with each other as federal government installations were being secured. > > “Shutting down the mobile phone service means that you are shutting your > own eyes and ears. Communication is the backbone of swift intelligence > operations in such crisis and rioting,” the official said." > > Yet another episode that sheds light on the "far-sightedness" and > "intelligent thinking" of this stupid jerk who JUST. WON'T. QUIT! Rehman > Malik, you are a bloody idiot. > > - - FoOdaFied! > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From parminder at itforchange.net Sun Sep 23 08:47:37 2012 From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 18:17:37 +0530 Subject: [governance] 3322.org seized by Microsoft from Chinese DNS service provider In-Reply-To: <20120923110830.0038af8b@quill.bollow.ch> References: <20120923110830.0038af8b@quill.bollow.ch> Message-ID: <505F04E9.5080206@itforchange.net> On Sunday 23 September 2012 02:38 PM, Norbert Bollow wrote: > Krebs on Security: "Malware Dragnet Snags Millions of Infected PCs" > http://krebsonsecurity.com/2012/09/malware-dragnet-snags-millions-of-infected-pcs/ > > (I'm more concerned about the innocent third parties affected by this > kind of action, though. --Norbert.) Equally concerning is the trans border exercise of coercive force in such a blatant and sweeping manner... Do such kind of things not give grist to the mills that advocate nationalised DNS systems that the recent proposal of China on 'autonomous Internet' to the IETF does...... We should know that the same kind of trans border excercise of power done in this case for an apparently good reason can be done for many other, more objectionable, kinds of reasons, if all it takes is a US judge getting convinced that US law/ interests are implicated. There should be more legitimate international systems taking care of the kind of problem that Microsoft detected than the way it got done. But there are people who remain convinced that nothing is broken that needs to be fixed - the broken record that we have been hearing for more than a decade now. parminder > > "Last week, Microsoft Corp. made headlines when it scored an > unconventional if not unprecedented legal victory: Convincing a U.S. > court to let it seize control of a Chinese Internet service provider’s > network as part of a crackdown on piracy..." > -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Sun Sep 23 09:16:00 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 01:16:00 +1200 Subject: [governance] 3322.org seized by Microsoft from Chinese DNS service provider In-Reply-To: <505F04E9.5080206@itforchange.net> References: <20120923110830.0038af8b@quill.bollow.ch> <505F04E9.5080206@itforchange.net> Message-ID: > > Snip.... > > > Equally concerning is the trans border exercise of coercive force in such > a blatant and sweeping manner... Do such kind of things not give grist to > the mills that advocate nationalised DNS systems that the recent proposal > of China on 'autonomous Internet' to the IETF does...... We should know > that the same kind of trans border excercise of power done in this case for > an apparently good reason can be done for many other, more objectionable, > kinds of reasons, if all it takes is a US judge getting convinced that US > law/ interests are implicated. > > There should be more legitimate international systems taking care of the > kind of problem that Microsoft detected than the way it got done. But there > are people who remain convinced that nothing is broken that needs to be > fixed - the broken record that we have been hearing for more than a decade > now. > > parminder This reminds me of Operation Ghostnet that was brought down. Now here's a recent take down by Microsoft following a Court Order that it received from the US District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia in Alexandria, see: *Microsoft Corporation a Washington corporation v Peng Yong*, *an individual; Changzhou Bei Te Kang Mu Software Technology Co., Ltd,, d/b/a Bitcomm, Ltd; John Does 1-3* * * http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/09/13/botnet_takedown/ The Article also contains links to the Pleadings (court documents that were filed). In my personal view the Judge did the correct thing. "Microsoft said that within hours of the takeover order being granted, it saw more than 35 million unique Internet addresses phoning home to those 70,000 malicious domains. " *Peng Yong*, *an individual; Changzhou Bei Te Kang Mu Software Technology Co., Ltd,, d/b/a Bitcomm, Ltd *had the opportunity to defend itself as we can see from the Pleadings that were filed in Virginia. A maturity that we may be seeing is that Microsoft is moving away from past unilateral actions as reported in the article that Norbert shared. The reality is that clampdowns on Botnets etc can be filed in any court provided you have the appropriate legislations in place that recognise it as a crime in the first place. It is the option of whoever is filing to select their jurisdiction of choice. I don't feel that we need new legitimate international systems to address the problem of botnets. This is a collective responsibility of all stakeholders within the Internet Universe. > > > >> "Last week, Microsoft Corp. made headlines when it scored an >> unconventional if not unprecedented legal victory: Convincing a U.S. >> court to let it seize control of a Chinese Internet service provider’s >> network as part of a crackdown on piracy..." >> >> > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From yrjo_lansipuro at hotmail.com Sun Sep 23 09:39:24 2012 From: yrjo_lansipuro at hotmail.com (=?Windows-1252?B?WXJq9iBM5G5zaXB1cm8=?=) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 16:39:24 +0300 Subject: [governance] Shutting down the mobile phone service means that you are shutting your own eyes and ears! In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: ...and their problem is called "dictator's dilemma". Yrjö From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 21:09:25 +0900 To: fouadbajwa at gmail.com CC: governance at lists.igcaucus.org Subject: Re: [governance] Shutting down the mobile phone service means that you are shutting your own eyes and ears! Fouad, there is a version of Pakistan's interior minister in almost every country in the world. They hold such high positions as means to add spice to an already yummy fiesta of corruption and political craziness. Bottom line, take it easy my friend :-) Will all have to live with it. Fahd On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 8:13 PM, Fouad Bajwa wrote: A story that appeared in the Pakistani Daily Dawn sheds some light on what happened with the nation a day or two ago: http://dawn.com/2012/09/22/cellphone-service-rehman-malik-strikes-again/ As the story goes: One security agency official told Dawn: “Our job also became more troublesome. We could not get in touch with each other except those of us who were on wireless communication.” He then narrated a story from Oct 12, 1999, when the military coup happened. “The 111 Brigade had taken over the national telecommunication grid and we were considering jamming the cellphone communication also.” But he added that the military leadership immediately realised that this would be a mistake because the officers were using mobile phones to communicate with each other as federal government installations were being secured. “Shutting down the mobile phone service means that you are shutting your own eyes and ears. Communication is the backbone of swift intelligence operations in such crisis and rioting,” the official said." Yet another episode that sheds light on the "far-sightedness" and "intelligent thinking" of this stupid jerk who JUST. WON'T. QUIT! Rehman Malik, you are a bloody idiot. - - FoOdaFied! ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From nb at bollow.ch Sun Sep 23 09:52:48 2012 From: nb at bollow.ch (Norbert Bollow) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 15:52:48 +0200 Subject: [governance] Culture sensitivity education (was Re: Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube) Message-ID: <20120923155248.6646c475@quill.bollow.ch> David Conrad wrote: > On Sep 19, 2012, at 3:44 AM, Faisal Hasan wrote: >> Lack of education is one of the reasons why some people donot >> understand the seriousness / implication of a small clip that can >> wound millions of people around the world. {{These three lines had been written in response to a posting from me in which I had suggested that "a key aspect of what leads to the making of such films is that the people who created it (and also their friends and other people in their social circles who knew about the project and could have influenced them to stop it, but didn't try to do that) had too little understanding of what emotions this film would trigger, and what this could potentially lead to."}} > This seems reversed to me. > > My impression, looking at news reports on the background of how the > video became such an item of note, is that the creators/distributors > of the video knew what the implications of creating/releasing the > video would be I think that it's important to distinguish here between (a) the creators of the original English-language video, which as far as I know did not achieve any kind of notability on YouTube before the rabble-rousing Egyptian tele-Islamist Sheikh Khaled Abdullah started drawing attention to it, and (b) that tele-Islamist and other rabble-rousers who drew the attention of Muslims to this hurtful video. > and, in fact, were counting on the over-reaction in order to put the > Muslim world in a bad light. What is the evidence on which you're basing this assertion? I do not doubt that the people whom I have above called rabble-rousers knew what they were doing. But that does not imply that the creators of the video also understood, at the time of creating and uploading the video, the potential outcomes of their actions. And it certainly does not imply that kind of understanding among the people in their social circle who knew about the project and who could have used their influence to prevent this risky course of action. > The instigators of the rioting (TV personalities and politicians) > and the people rioting played directly into the desires of the video's > creators/distributors. Sure these acts give outsiders a very bad impression of the instigators and of the rioters, and badly-informed people might confuse the rioters with Muslims in general. As the same time, a similarly bad impression is created about the creators of the video, and badly-informed people outside the US who might just as easily associate the creators of the video with the US in general. (The latter association is by the way not totally unjustified as long as US is a democracy and US law protects the publication of this kind of video as part of "freedom of speech". Not all countries that have a strong principle of freedom of speech interpret it so broadly that just any kind of hurtful, hate-inspiring ideology in included. Under Swiss law for example, "any person who publicly disseminates ideologies that have as their object the systematic denigration or defamation of the members of a race, ethnic group or religion...shall be liable to a custodial sentence not exceeding three years or to a monetary penalty." [1]) [1] http://www.admin.ch/ch/e/rs/311_0/a261bis.html And IMO more significant than all of that is the damage to the foreign relations capability of the US (and possibly other Western nations). In conclusion, I think it likely that Faisal's assertion "Lack of education is one of the reasons why some people do not understand the seriousness / implication of a small clip that can wound millions of people around the world" is not only absolutely true, but very much relevant to the events that we have been discussing. With relatively few exceptions, US citizens generally give (to people with cultural roots outside their own cultural circle) the impression of being very poorly educated on matters of cultural sensitivity. > There are a lot of crazy people out there who are going to do bad > things on purpose, regardless of their education. This is very true. But some percentage of the bad actions could be prevented by making these people more aware, in advance of them doing bad things, of side effects which are undesirable not only objectively but also from their crazy personal perspective. And some percentage of the bad things can also be prevented by making them illegal. This would reinforce the education objective and it would also have the effect of making it less likely that the whole nation will be blamed for the bad actions of a few crazy people. My understanding is that in the US it would be particularly difficult to achieve the legal change that public denigration of all the members of a race, ethnic group or religion would no longer be considered protected "speech" (it would be necessary to amend the US constitution or otherwise change how the First Amendment is interpreted.) Again better education on matters of international cultural sensitivity would probably have to be the first step. > Given the Internet allows pretty much anyone to be a content > producer, regardless of their sanity or intent, I would think it > important to educate everyone else that there are people who, for > whatever reason, will say things that you don't like, you will find > offensive, etc., but the correct response is _never_ violence and not > to assume it is, as one commentator in Egypt said, "100% the US" (or > whatever). I very strongly agree. Clearly it is a good goal to educate all non-crazy people to (1) protect their computers/phones/etc. against unauthorized access by crazy people and criminals, and (2) otherwise avoid paying undue attention to crazy people and rabble-rousers. But this is not the complete solution! Culture sensitivity education is also needed. Maybe the US government would be well advised to request developmental aid from countries which are more advanced in this regard? Actually I'd be surprised if Switzerland were really the only country able to provide assistance regarding this kind of topic. In fact, perhaps some poor "third world" country could be the giver of such developmental aid for a change? :-) Greetings, Norbert -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From nb at bollow.ch Sun Sep 23 10:42:59 2012 From: nb at bollow.ch (Norbert Bollow) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 16:42:59 +0200 Subject: [governance] 3322.org seized by Microsoft from Chinese DNS service provider In-Reply-To: References: <20120923110830.0038af8b@quill.bollow.ch> <505F04E9.5080206@itforchange.net> Message-ID: <20120923164259.28de7c65@quill.bollow.ch> Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote: > I don't feel that we need new legitimate international systems to > address the problem of botnets. I also certainly wouldn't ask for a "legitimate international systems to address the problem of botnets" specifically, but I share the concern that I believe Parminder was expressing, and I think that domain name seizures by US courts when the domain name holder is outside the US need to be either stopped or made subject to legitimate internationally agreed rules. It is part of the responsibility of courts to weigh the effects of an order that is requested not only with regard to the litigants, but also with regard to the public interest and with regard to innocent third parties that might be affected. Third parties who would be affected by the order must be given a fair opportunity to inform the court about how they would be affected. Does anyone seriously believe that in this case there was any chance for the effects on the innocent third parties in China to be explained, or appropriately weighted, or weighted as strongly as if they had been US residents? All website addresses and email addresses at subdomains of 3322.org were destroyed by the seizure. In my understanding that was "arbitrary or unlawful interference with" the "correspondence" of innocent people, and therefore a human rights violation (see ICCPR [1], article 17). [1] http://idgovmap.org/map/treaty/ICCPR (IMO, if the US court did not consider the effects on the innocent third parties, then the seizure was *arbitrary* interference. If the court considered those side-effects but considered them justifiable, then the seizure was *unlawful* interference, because US courts lack jurisdiction to decide that the correspondence of a Chinese person in China with other people in China may for some reason lawfully be interfered with.) Greetings, Norbert -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From apisan at unam.mx Sun Sep 23 11:04:12 2012 From: apisan at unam.mx (Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 15:04:12 +0000 Subject: [governance] How to Block Pornographic Websites In-Reply-To: References: <976351348314485@web1d.yandex.ru> <505DF795.5050201@cafonso.ca> <505E02C6.7090308@gmx.net> <1104351348353158@web25g.yandex.ru> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D4840B9ED@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local>, Message-ID: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D4840BBA3@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> Chaitanya, rather, for each site you decide to block/take down/whatever, accurate whois information is of the essence. So, accurate whois information is not the unalloyed evil we read about in general statements. So, it seems, for blocking and filtering. Now on to some discussions where such nuance is once again ignored. Yours, Alejandro Pisanty ! !! !!! !!!! NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475 Dr. Alejandro Pisanty UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ________________________________ Desde: Chaitanya Dhareshwar [chaitanyabd at gmail.com] Enviado el: domingo, 23 de septiembre de 2012 03:57 Hasta: Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch CC: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Shcherbovich Andrey; governance at lists.cpsr.org Asunto: Re: [governance] How to Block Pornographic Websites No you're right - in the long term it'll make little or no difference probably - but with the goal of removing this particular site it could help. Best regards, Chaitanya On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 12:14 PM, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch > wrote: Chaitanya, in this quest, how relevant is whois data accuracy, for the IP address and for the domain name registration? Alejandro Pisanty ! !! !!! !!!! NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475 Dr. Alejandro Pisanty UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ________________________________ Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Chaitanya Dhareshwar [chaitanyabd at gmail.com] Enviado el: domingo, 23 de septiembre de 2012 00:15 Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Shcherbovich Andrey CC: Norbert Klein; governance at lists.cpsr.org Asunto: Re: [governance] How to Block Pornographic Websites The IP is based in Germany - here's the relevant bits of the WHOIS if anyone would like to take this forward - I'm guessing they will need a formal request in two languages (english/german) as most formal/official requests are. role: NMC PlusServer AG address: PlusServer AG address: Daimlerstr. 9-11 address: 50354 Huerth phone: +49 1801 119991 fax-no: +49 2233 612-53500 abuse-mailbox: [X] remarks: remarks: ******************************************************** remarks: * PLEASE READ CAREFULLY: * remarks: * and choose the right addresses for contacting our * remarks: * staff. * remarks: * This will fasten up processing your request ! * remarks: ******************************************************** remarks: * ABUSE-Complaints are only handled at: * remarks: * [X] * remarks: ******************************************************** remarks: * Auskunftsersuchen gemaess TKG werden nur unter * remarks: * Fax: +49 2233 612 5150 * remarks: * bearbeitet! * remarks: ******************************************************** remarks: * Informational Contact: [X] * remarks: * or http://www.plusserver.de * remarks: ******************************************************** remarks: remarks: ******************************************************** remarks: * If you have a routing-related request you * remarks: * may contact us at : * remarks: * Phone: +49 1801 119 991 * remarks: * Fax: +49 2233 612 53500 * remarks: * * remarks: ******************************************************** On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 4:02 AM, Shcherbovich Andrey > wrote: I'll start by contacting Russian domain administrator legal services. But I ask my IG colleagues for any assistance possible. ALSO, the problem is the victims don't like to go to any officials. SHOCKMODELS.INFO is a target website. It is pornographic, fraud, cyberslapping, etc. Thanks! Andrey 22.09.2012, 22:26, "Norbert Klein" >: > +1 - thanks Carlos, for checking the technical operators, some work; - > they are not secret. So who is going to start the legal processes? More > work. > > Norbert Klein > > = > > On 9/23/2012 12:38 AM, Carlos A. Afonso wrote: > >> Hmmmm.... The domain is held by a Larisa I Pshemiska, based in Prague. >> >> From here (BR) shockmodels.info pings to IP 188.138.84.202, part of a >> /16 IPv4 block assigned by RIPE/NCC to PLUSSERVER-AS PlusServer AG, >> Germany. >> >> The site uses DNS servers from Host29 Ltd, based in London, UK. >> >> So, maybe not Russian at all... >> >> --c.a. >> >> On 09/22/2012 08:48 AM, Shcherbovich Andrey wrote: >>> Dear colleagues. >>> >>> In Russia there is a criminal pornographic website >>> http:\\shockmodels.info Child porn, cyberslapping, bullying, fraud. >>> It has different mirrors in Germany, Czech Rep. and other countries. >>> Please tell me how to block it generally. Is there a way to go? >>> >>> Thank you! >>> >>> Andrey > > , > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fouadbajwa at gmail.com Sun Sep 23 15:30:24 2012 From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Bajwa) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 00:30:24 +0500 Subject: [governance] Shutting down the mobile phone service means that you are shutting your own eyes and ears! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Fahad, My intention was to only share the source of the news article and an excerpt from it for information. I pasted the last few lines by accident that were in response to the article by an angry stakeholder in our group. Kindly accept my disclaimer and apologies for the language displayed and does not represent my intention. I notified the moderators as soon as I found the error. FoO On Sep 23, 2012 5:09 PM, "Fahd A. Batayneh" wrote: > Fouad, there is a version of Pakistan's interior minister in almost every > country in the world. They hold such high positions as means to add spice > to an already yummy fiesta of corruption and political craziness. > > Bottom line, take it easy my friend :-) Will all have to live with it. > > Fahd > > On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 8:13 PM, Fouad Bajwa wrote: > >> A story that appeared in the Pakistani Daily Dawn sheds some light on >> what happened with the nation a day or two ago: >> >> http://dawn.com/2012/09/22/cellphone-service-rehman-malik-strikes-again/ >> >> As the story goes: >> >> One security agency official told Dawn: “Our job also became more >> troublesome. We could not get in touch with each other except those of us >> who were on wireless communication.” >> >> He then narrated a story from Oct 12, 1999, when the military coup >> happened. “The 111 Brigade had taken over the national telecommunication >> grid and we were considering jamming the cellphone communication also.” But >> he added that the military leadership immediately realised that this would >> be a mistake because the officers were using mobile phones to communicate >> with each other as federal government installations were being secured. >> >> “Shutting down the mobile phone service means that you are shutting your >> own eyes and ears. Communication is the backbone of swift intelligence >> operations in such crisis and rioting,” the official said." >> >> Yet another episode that sheds light on the "far-sightedness" and >> "intelligent thinking" of this stupid jerk who JUST. WON'T. QUIT! Rehman >> Malik, you are a bloody idiot. >> >> - - FoOdaFied! >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Sun Sep 23 16:12:00 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 08:12:00 +1200 Subject: [governance] 3322.org seized by Microsoft from Chinese DNS service provider In-Reply-To: <20120923164259.28de7c65@quill.bollow.ch> References: <20120923110830.0038af8b@quill.bollow.ch> <505F04E9.5080206@itforchange.net> <20120923164259.28de7c65@quill.bollow.ch> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 2:42 AM, Norbert Bollow wrote: > Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro > wrote: > > > I don't feel that we need new legitimate international systems to > > address the problem of botnets. > > I also certainly wouldn't ask for a "legitimate international systems to > address the problem of botnets" specifically, but I share the concern > that I believe Parminder was expressing, and I think that domain name > seizures by US courts when the domain name holder is outside the US > need to be either stopped or made subject to legitimate internationally > agreed rules. > The reality is that countries differ in the manner of categorising cyber crime and this poses a challenge as far as extra-territorial jurisdictional enforcement. If country A and country B both have the same categorisation of what they consider to be a cyber crime, then chances of law enforcement cooperation are higher then if they were'nt. For instance even despite things like the Budapest Convention it does not mean that categorisation is the same for countries who have ratified it. For example, if we take "child pornography", Article 9(2) limits this content related offence, see: "For the purpose of paragraph 1 above, the term "child pornography" shall include pornographic material that visually depicts" On one hand you have blind persons claiming "visual impairment" as a defence. It is part of the responsibility of courts to weigh the effects of an > order that is requested not only with regard to the litigants, but also > with regard to the public interest and with regard to innocent third > parties that might be affected. The third parties are those computers who have been infected by "Malware" andl who have no idea that their machines are being unscrupulously used by a few. > Third parties who would be affected by > the order must be given a fair opportunity to inform the court about > how they would be affected. > Imagine in this case identifying the John Does and flying 35 million persons for one trial. So it follows that enforcement in this regard is not that simple. > > Does anyone seriously believe that in this case there was any chance > for the effects on the innocent third parties in China to be explained, > or appropriately weighted, or weighted as strongly as if they had been > US residents? > Botnets are global and so end users computers who are caught in the "dragnet" are from the world over. You are right there should be robust dialogue and discussions on this matter as far as establishing criminal liability, rights of parties etc etc. > > All website addresses and email addresses at subdomains of 3322.org > were destroyed by the seizure. In my understanding that was "arbitrary > or unlawful interference with" the "correspondence" of innocent > people, and therefore a human rights violation (see ICCPR [1], article > 17). > [1] http://idgovmap.org/map/treaty/ICCPR Well this is something that should be robustly discussed etc where we collectively explore all sides and weigh the matter thoroughly. > > > (IMO, if the US court did not consider the effects on the innocent > third parties, then the seizure was *arbitrary* interference. If the > court considered those side-effects but considered them justifiable, > then the seizure was *unlawful* interference, because US courts lack > jurisdiction to decide that the correspondence of a Chinese person in > China with other people in China may for some reason lawfully be > interfered with.) > > > Greetings, > Norbert > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From cveraq at gmail.com Sun Sep 23 16:27:18 2012 From: cveraq at gmail.com (Carlos Vera Quintana) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 15:27:18 -0500 Subject: [governance] Project Censores In-Reply-To: References: <20120923110830.0038af8b@quill.bollow.ch> <505F04E9.5080206@itforchange.net> <20120923164259.28de7c65@quill.bollow.ch> Message-ID: <7FB6F210-7285-48A9-8222-DAF1B5608392@gmail.com> Some opinion please? http://www.projectcensored.org/ Carlos Vera Enviado desde mi iPhone El 23/09/2012, a las 15:12, "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" escribió: > > > On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 2:42 AM, Norbert Bollow wrote: >> Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro >> wrote: >> >> > I don't feel that we need new legitimate international systems to >> > address the problem of botnets. >> >> I also certainly wouldn't ask for a "legitimate international systems to >> address the problem of botnets" specifically, but I share the concern >> that I believe Parminder was expressing, and I think that domain name >> seizures by US courts when the domain name holder is outside the US >> need to be either stopped or made subject to legitimate internationally >> agreed rules. > > The reality is that countries differ in the manner of categorising cyber crime and this poses a challenge as far as extra-territorial jurisdictional enforcement. If country A and country B both have the same categorisation of what they consider to be a cyber crime, then chances of law enforcement cooperation are higher then if they were'nt. For instance even despite things like the Budapest Convention it does not mean that categorisation is the same for countries who have ratified it. For example, if we take "child pornography", Article 9(2) limits this content related offence, see: "For the purpose of paragraph 1 above, the term "child pornography" shall include pornographic material that visually depicts" > > On one hand you have blind persons claiming "visual impairment" as a defence. > > > >> It is part of the responsibility of courts to weigh the effects of an >> order that is requested not only with regard to the litigants, but also >> with regard to the public interest and with regard to innocent third >> parties that might be affected. > The third parties are those computers who have been infected by "Malware" andl who have no idea that their machines are being unscrupulously used by a few. > >> Third parties who would be affected by >> the order must be given a fair opportunity to inform the court about >> how they would be affected. > Imagine in this case identifying the John Does and flying 35 million persons for one trial. So it follows that enforcement in this regard is not that simple. >> >> Does anyone seriously believe that in this case there was any chance >> for the effects on the innocent third parties in China to be explained, >> or appropriately weighted, or weighted as strongly as if they had been >> US residents? > Botnets are global and so end users computers who are caught in the "dragnet" are from the world over. You are right there should be robust dialogue and discussions on this matter as far as establishing criminal liability, rights of parties etc etc. >> >> All website addresses and email addresses at subdomains of 3322.org >> were destroyed by the seizure. In my understanding that was "arbitrary >> or unlawful interference with" the "correspondence" of innocent >> people, and therefore a human rights violation (see ICCPR [1], article >> 17). >> [1] http://idgovmap.org/map/treaty/ICCPR > > Well this is something that should be robustly discussed etc where we collectively explore all sides and weigh the matter thoroughly. >> >> >> (IMO, if the US court did not consider the effects on the innocent >> third parties, then the seizure was *arbitrary* interference. If the >> court considered those side-effects but considered them justifiable, >> then the seizure was *unlawful* interference, because US courts lack >> jurisdiction to decide that the correspondence of a Chinese person in >> China with other people in China may for some reason lawfully be >> interfered with.) > > >> >> Greetings, >> Norbert > > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From drc at virtualized.org Sun Sep 23 16:35:09 2012 From: drc at virtualized.org (David Conrad) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 13:35:09 -0700 Subject: [governance] Culture sensitivity education (was Re: Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube) In-Reply-To: <20120923155248.6646c475@quill.bollow.ch> References: <20120923155248.6646c475@quill.bollow.ch> Message-ID: Norbert, On Sep 23, 2012, at 6:52 AM, Norbert Bollow wrote: > Culture sensitivity education is also needed. Do you seriously think the folks who created the "Innocence of Muslims" abomination were ignorant of how their 'movie' would be received? The reality is that people will make irritating, inflammatory, offensive, obscene, etc., statements, regardless of education or laws that attempt to ban those statements. The problem is not with the words, but with the intent. If it is someone's intent to be offensive, cultural sensitivity training is not going to stop it (if fact, I suspect it'll make it easier to know exactly what to say/do to cause the most offense). Even laws won't stop it -- people are amazingly inventive when it comes to figuring out how to be offensive. Given this, and given the Internet allows pretty much anyone, anywhere, at any time to broadcast their speech (anonymously if necessary), it seems to me that education would more usefully be applied to helping people understand that it takes two to be offended and how, if one chooses to be offended, to best demonstrate against that offense (e.g., _not_ by rioting or storming/burning embassies). > Maybe the US government would be well advised to request developmental > aid from countries which are more advanced in this regard? Actually > I'd be surprised if Switzerland were really the only country able to > provide assistance regarding this kind of topic. I figure pretty much every country has their strengths and weaknesses in this area and often people within those countries are unaware of how their actions are perceived. For example, some might perceive that a country passing a constitutional amendment banning the construction of minarets would suggest a certain lack of cultural sensitivity and/or perhaps may not be the best to lecture others on cultural sensitivity. YMMV. Regards, -drc -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From nashton at ccianet.org Sun Sep 23 16:37:48 2012 From: nashton at ccianet.org (Nick Ashton-Hart) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 22:37:48 +0200 Subject: [governance] Culture sensitivity education (was Re: Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube) In-Reply-To: References: <20120923155248.6646c475@quill.bollow.ch> Message-ID: <7656125584711701107@unknownmsgid> +1 to David's sentiments, FWIW. > Norbert, > > On Sep 23, 2012, at 6:52 AM, Norbert Bollow wrote: >> Culture sensitivity education is also needed. > > > Do you seriously think the folks who created the "Innocence of Muslims" abomination were ignorant of how their 'movie' would be received? > > The reality is that people will make irritating, inflammatory, offensive, obscene, etc., statements, regardless of education or laws that attempt to ban those statements. The problem is not with the words, but with the intent. If it is someone's intent to be offensive, cultural sensitivity training is not going to stop it (if fact, I suspect it'll make it easier to know exactly what to say/do to cause the most offense). Even laws won't stop it -- people are amazingly inventive when it comes to figuring out how to be offensive. > > Given this, and given the Internet allows pretty much anyone, anywhere, at any time to broadcast their speech (anonymously if necessary), it seems to me that education would more usefully be applied to helping people understand that it takes two to be offended and how, if one chooses to be offended, to best demonstrate against that offense (e.g., _not_ by rioting or storming/burning embassies). > >> Maybe the US government would be well advised to request developmental >> aid from countries which are more advanced in this regard? Actually >> I'd be surprised if Switzerland were really the only country able to >> provide assistance regarding this kind of topic. > > I figure pretty much every country has their strengths and weaknesses in this area and often people within those countries are unaware of how their actions are perceived. For example, some might perceive that a country passing a constitutional amendment banning the construction of minarets would suggest a certain lack of cultural sensitivity and/or perhaps may not be the best to lecture others on cultural sensitivity. YMMV. > > Regards, > -drc > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Sun Sep 23 21:34:01 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 07:04:01 +0530 Subject: [governance] Shutting down the mobile phone service means that you are shutting your own eyes and ears! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That *was* the most entertaining part of the article though. -C On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 1:00 AM, Fouad Bajwa wrote: > Hi Fahad, > > My intention was to only share the source of the news article and an > excerpt from it for information. > > I pasted the last few lines by accident that were in response to the > article by an angry stakeholder in our group. Kindly accept my disclaimer > and apologies for the language displayed and does not represent my > intention. > > I notified the moderators as soon as I found the error. > > FoO > On Sep 23, 2012 5:09 PM, "Fahd A. Batayneh" > wrote: > >> Fouad, there is a version of Pakistan's interior minister in almost every >> country in the world. They hold such high positions as means to add spice >> to an already yummy fiesta of corruption and political craziness. >> >> Bottom line, take it easy my friend :-) Will all have to live with it. >> >> Fahd >> >> On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 8:13 PM, Fouad Bajwa wrote: >> >>> A story that appeared in the Pakistani Daily Dawn sheds some light on >>> what happened with the nation a day or two ago: >>> >>> http://dawn.com/2012/09/22/cellphone-service-rehman-malik-strikes-again/ >>> >>> As the story goes: >>> >>> One security agency official told Dawn: “Our job also became more >>> troublesome. We could not get in touch with each other except those of us >>> who were on wireless communication.” >>> >>> He then narrated a story from Oct 12, 1999, when the military coup >>> happened. “The 111 Brigade had taken over the national telecommunication >>> grid and we were considering jamming the cellphone communication also.” But >>> he added that the military leadership immediately realised that this would >>> be a mistake because the officers were using mobile phones to communicate >>> with each other as federal government installations were being secured. >>> >>> “Shutting down the mobile phone service means that you are shutting your >>> own eyes and ears. Communication is the backbone of swift intelligence >>> operations in such crisis and rioting,” the official said." >>> >>> Yet another episode that sheds light on the "far-sightedness" and >>> "intelligent thinking" of this stupid jerk who JUST. WON'T. QUIT! Rehman >>> Malik, you are a bloody idiot. >>> >>> - - FoOdaFied! >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >>> To be removed from the list, visit: >>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >>> >>> For all other list information and functions, see: >>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >>> >>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >>> >> > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Sun Sep 23 21:50:56 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 07:20:56 +0530 Subject: [governance] Project Censores In-Reply-To: <7FB6F210-7285-48A9-8222-DAF1B5608392@gmail.com> References: <20120923110830.0038af8b@quill.bollow.ch> <505F04E9.5080206@itforchange.net> <20120923164259.28de7c65@quill.bollow.ch> <7FB6F210-7285-48A9-8222-DAF1B5608392@gmail.com> Message-ID: It's nice (in that they try to be candid) - but chances are they'll end up prosecuted like most others. -C On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 1:57 AM, Carlos Vera Quintana wrote: > Some opinion please? > > http://www.projectcensored.org/ > > Carlos Vera > > Enviado desde mi iPhone > > El 23/09/2012, a las 15:12, "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" < > salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> escribió: > > > > On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 2:42 AM, Norbert Bollow wrote: > >> Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro >> wrote: >> >> > I don't feel that we need new legitimate international systems to >> > address the problem of botnets. >> >> I also certainly wouldn't ask for a "legitimate international systems to >> address the problem of botnets" specifically, but I share the concern >> that I believe Parminder was expressing, and I think that domain name >> seizures by US courts when the domain name holder is outside the US >> need to be either stopped or made subject to legitimate internationally >> agreed rules. >> > > The reality is that countries differ in the manner of categorising cyber > crime and this poses a challenge as far as extra-territorial jurisdictional > enforcement. If country A and country B both have the same categorisation > of what they consider to be a cyber crime, then chances of law enforcement > cooperation are higher then if they were'nt. For instance even despite > things like the Budapest Convention it does not mean that categorisation is > the same for countries who have ratified it. For example, if we take "child > pornography", Article 9(2) limits this content related offence, see: "For > the purpose of paragraph 1 above, the term "child pornography" shall > include pornographic material that visually depicts" > > On one hand you have blind persons claiming "visual impairment" as a > defence. > > > It is part of the responsibility of courts to weigh the effects of an >> order that is requested not only with regard to the litigants, but also >> with regard to the public interest and with regard to innocent third >> parties that might be affected. > > The third parties are those computers who have been infected by "Malware" > andl who have no idea that their machines are being unscrupulously used by > a few. > > >> Third parties who would be affected by >> the order must be given a fair opportunity to inform the court about >> how they would be affected. >> > Imagine in this case identifying the John Does and flying 35 million > persons for one trial. So it follows that enforcement in this regard is not > that simple. > >> >> Does anyone seriously believe that in this case there was any chance >> for the effects on the innocent third parties in China to be explained, >> or appropriately weighted, or weighted as strongly as if they had been >> US residents? >> > Botnets are global and so end users computers who are caught in the > "dragnet" are from the world over. You are right there should be robust > dialogue and discussions on this matter as far as establishing criminal > liability, rights of parties etc etc. > >> >> All website addresses and email addresses at subdomains of 3322.org >> were destroyed by the seizure. In my understanding that was "arbitrary >> or unlawful interference with" the "correspondence" of innocent >> people, and therefore a human rights violation (see ICCPR [1], article >> 17). >> [1] http://idgovmap.org/map/treaty/ICCPR > > > Well this is something that should be robustly discussed etc where we > collectively explore all sides and weigh the matter thoroughly. > >> >> >> (IMO, if the US court did not consider the effects on the innocent >> third parties, then the seizure was *arbitrary* interference. If the >> court considered those side-effects but considered them justifiable, >> then the seizure was *unlawful* interference, because US courts lack >> jurisdiction to decide that the correspondence of a Chinese person in >> China with other people in China may for some reason lawfully be >> interfered with.) >> > > > >> >> Greetings, >> Norbert >> > > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Mon Sep 24 00:13:50 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 13:13:50 +0900 Subject: [governance] Shutting down the mobile phone service means that you are shutting your own eyes and ears! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No worries Fouad :-) Fahd On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 4:30 AM, Fouad Bajwa wrote: > Hi Fahad, > > My intention was to only share the source of the news article and an > excerpt from it for information. > > I pasted the last few lines by accident that were in response to the > article by an angry stakeholder in our group. Kindly accept my disclaimer > and apologies for the language displayed and does not represent my > intention. > > I notified the moderators as soon as I found the error. > > FoO > On Sep 23, 2012 5:09 PM, "Fahd A. Batayneh" > wrote: > >> Fouad, there is a version of Pakistan's interior minister in almost every >> country in the world. They hold such high positions as means to add spice >> to an already yummy fiesta of corruption and political craziness. >> >> Bottom line, take it easy my friend :-) Will all have to live with it. >> >> Fahd >> >> On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 8:13 PM, Fouad Bajwa wrote: >> >>> A story that appeared in the Pakistani Daily Dawn sheds some light on >>> what happened with the nation a day or two ago: >>> >>> http://dawn.com/2012/09/22/cellphone-service-rehman-malik-strikes-again/ >>> >>> As the story goes: >>> >>> One security agency official told Dawn: “Our job also became more >>> troublesome. We could not get in touch with each other except those of us >>> who were on wireless communication.” >>> >>> He then narrated a story from Oct 12, 1999, when the military coup >>> happened. “The 111 Brigade had taken over the national telecommunication >>> grid and we were considering jamming the cellphone communication also.” But >>> he added that the military leadership immediately realised that this would >>> be a mistake because the officers were using mobile phones to communicate >>> with each other as federal government installations were being secured. >>> >>> “Shutting down the mobile phone service means that you are shutting your >>> own eyes and ears. Communication is the backbone of swift intelligence >>> operations in such crisis and rioting,” the official said." >>> >>> Yet another episode that sheds light on the "far-sightedness" and >>> "intelligent thinking" of this stupid jerk who JUST. WON'T. QUIT! Rehman >>> Malik, you are a bloody idiot. >>> >>> - - FoOdaFied! >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >>> To be removed from the list, visit: >>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >>> >>> For all other list information and functions, see: >>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >>> >>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >>> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From daniel at digsys.bg Mon Sep 24 02:14:01 2012 From: daniel at digsys.bg (Daniel Kalchev) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 09:14:01 +0300 Subject: [governance] 3322.org seized by Microsoft from Chinese DNS service provider In-Reply-To: <20120923110830.0038af8b@quill.bollow.ch> References: <20120923110830.0038af8b@quill.bollow.ch> Message-ID: <505FFA29.1040807@digsys.bg> On 23.09.12 12:08, Norbert Bollow wrote: > Krebs on Security: "Malware Dragnet Snags Millions of Infected PCs" > http://krebsonsecurity.com/2012/09/malware-dragnet-snags-millions-of-infected-pcs/ > > (I'm more concerned about the innocent third parties affected by this > kind of action, though. --Norbert.) > > "Last week, Microsoft Corp. made headlines when it scored an > unconventional if not unprecedented legal victory: Convincing a U.S. > court to let it seize control of a Chinese Internet service provider’s > network as part of a crackdown on piracy..." > This is an perfect example of abusing market share. In this case, the victims computers were infected because of flaws in the software supplied by Microsoft. The irony is that all those people paid Microsoft for that software. Instead of spending some effort to fix the software on the infected computers, Microsoft is taking the "cheaper" route to shut down the command centers of the botnet. Or so they think. Or so they try to make everyone think. The rest of the story is just collateral damages. I am more worried that Microsoft is not brought to court for letting those victims computers become infected in the first place. This is no different than letting a company sell medicine that is known to have bad side effects -- the US it seems has double standard here as in "No to Canadian drugs!" and "But Microsoft software is ok" :). Of course, the story with the shutdown domains remain, but the moral there is (and has been for years!): If you don't want to be subject to arbitrary US actions, don't register domain names with US-based registries and registrars. Daniel -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ajp at glocom.ac.jp Mon Sep 24 02:18:19 2012 From: ajp at glocom.ac.jp (Adam Peake) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 15:18:19 +0900 Subject: [governance] 3322.org seized by Microsoft from Chinese DNS service provider In-Reply-To: <505FFA29.1040807@digsys.bg> References: <20120923110830.0038af8b@quill.bollow.ch> <505FFA29.1040807@digsys.bg> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 3:14 PM, Daniel Kalchev wrote: > > > On 23.09.12 12:08, Norbert Bollow wrote: >> >> Krebs on Security: "Malware Dragnet Snags Millions of Infected PCs" >> >> http://krebsonsecurity.com/2012/09/malware-dragnet-snags-millions-of-infected-pcs/ >> >> (I'm more concerned about the innocent third parties affected by this >> kind of action, though. --Norbert.) >> >> "Last week, Microsoft Corp. made headlines when it scored an >> unconventional if not unprecedented legal victory: Convincing a U.S. >> court to let it seize control of a Chinese Internet service provider’s >> network as part of a crackdown on piracy..." >> > > This is an perfect example of abusing market share. In this case, the > victims computers were infected because of flaws in the software supplied by > Microsoft. The irony is that all those people paid Microsoft for that > software. > no. From the article Norbert sent: "First, the short version of how we got here: Microsoft investigators found that computer stores in China were selling PCs equipped with Windows operating system versions that were pre-loaded with the “Nitol” malware, and that these systems were phoning home to subdomains at 3322.org." Adam > Instead of spending some effort to fix the software on the infected > computers, Microsoft is taking the "cheaper" route to shut down the command > centers of the botnet. Or so they think. Or so they try to make everyone > think. > The rest of the story is just collateral damages. > > I am more worried that Microsoft is not brought to court for letting those > victims computers become infected in the first place. This is no different > than letting a company sell medicine that is known to have bad side effects > -- the US it seems has double standard here as in "No to Canadian drugs!" > and "But Microsoft software is ok" :). > > Of course, the story with the shutdown domains remain, but the moral there > is (and has been for years!): If you don't want to be subject to arbitrary > US actions, don't register domain names with US-based registries and > registrars. > > Daniel > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From chaitanyabd at gmail.com Mon Sep 24 02:30:29 2012 From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 12:00:29 +0530 Subject: [governance] 3322.org seized by Microsoft from Chinese DNS service provider In-Reply-To: References: <20120923110830.0038af8b@quill.bollow.ch> <505FFA29.1040807@digsys.bg> Message-ID: Further if there was a pre-loaded malware chances are windows firewall/defender would have been patched to prevent detection of the same - or maybe even removed altogether. Very likely the OS installed on those 'pre-loaded PCs' would have been pirated - if it was, MS would technically have no obligation to support them in any manner. Yes the move to grab the domain was hugely unprecedented, unexpected, and a very bold move even for MS. Why would they waste their time with un-licensed PCs that were pre-compromised? I think there's a larger threat here that's not being made public knowledge. Not a conspiracy - just that details are too sketchy and the move too bold for this to be very minor. -C > > > > > no. From the article Norbert sent: > > "First, the short version of how we got here: Microsoft investigators > found that computer stores in China were selling PCs equipped with > Windows operating system versions that were pre-loaded with the > “Nitol” malware, and that these systems were phoning home to > subdomains at 3322.org." > > Adam > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From daniel at digsys.bg Mon Sep 24 02:53:58 2012 From: daniel at digsys.bg (Daniel Kalchev) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 09:53:58 +0300 Subject: [governance] 3322.org seized by Microsoft from Chinese DNS service provider In-Reply-To: References: <20120923110830.0038af8b@quill.bollow.ch> <505FFA29.1040807@digsys.bg> Message-ID: <50600386.40305@digsys.bg> On 24.09.12 09:30, Chaitanya Dhareshwar wrote: > Further if there was a pre-loaded malware chances are windows > firewall/defender would have been patched to prevent detection of the > same - or maybe even removed altogether. I stand corrected on this part, but then it is indeed curious why Microsoft would react this way. It seems that even although the computers in question might not have come with "genuine" Microsoft OS, they do present threat to other Windows computers. Here, again, the fault is with Microsoft. Microsoft insists in their OEM agreement, that builders of PCs with Windows pre-installed do not install it from the original media, but use the OEM Preinstallation Kit instead. The OPK builds a new installation DVD media, containing Windows + your additions, from which you must install the PC. If you install the customer's PC directly from the Windows DVD media, Microsoft claims, the customer copy is not properly licensed. Weird! So I could imagine the vendor's administrative workstation, where OPK is being used might well have been infected with this malware. This whole story might have been saved if Microsoft's OEM agreement was different. But it is not, because for "direct installation" they sell the same DVD are much higher price. There is hope they have revised this attitude with Windows 8. > Very likely the OS installed on those 'pre-loaded PCs' would have > been pirated - if it was, MS would technically have no obligation to > support them in any manner. As far as I understand, Microsoft's problem was not those "pirated" Windows computers in China, but the fact that other Windows computers all around the world were being infected and joining the botnet. > Yes the move to grab the domain was hugely unprecedented, unexpected, > and a very bold move even for MS. Why would they waste their time with > un-licensed PCs that were pre-compromised? I think there's a larger > threat here that's not being made public knowledge. Not a conspiracy - > just that details are too sketchy and the move too bold for this to be > very minor. Short version: Microsoft saving face. By the way this is not the first time Microsoft engages in such activity. They have had a number of cases, some involving the takedown of huge number of domains in ccTLDs all over the world. All in order to stop a botnet infecting computers running Windows. Daniel -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From nb at bollow.ch Mon Sep 24 06:07:31 2012 From: nb at bollow.ch (Norbert Bollow) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 12:07:31 +0200 Subject: [governance] Culture sensitivity education (was Re: Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube) In-Reply-To: References: <20120923155248.6646c475@quill.bollow.ch> Message-ID: <20120924120731.4e7e1d15@quill.bollow.ch> David Conrad wrote: > Do you seriously think the folks who created the "Innocence of > Muslims" abomination were ignorant of how their 'movie' would be > received? At least one of the actors publicly insists that he was even ignorant of what the 'movie' was truly about: "I was invited to an audition at what looked like an old nightclub on La Cienega. There, I met the director and another man who identified himself as Sam Bacile. The part I read for was that of a doctor in a clinic. The director read the part of the other character, a military officer of some kind. There was no mention of Muhammad or Islam in the script I saw. ... A guy named Jeffrey introduced himself as the assistant director of the film and told me I would be playing a character named Amir. He gave me that day's script and sent me off to makeup. Then I went to wardrobe, where I was given a pair of sandals, a robe and a turban. It didn't seem like doctor's clothing, but I didn't question it. ... The next morning, I was handed a script and issued a sword, and we shot a scene in which the character George told me to go and kill a pregnant woman." (Source: http://articles.latimes.com/2012/sep/18/opinion/la-oe-crawley-innocence-of-muslims-actor-20120918 ) If this actor's words are to be believed (and I have no reason not to believe them), he truly did not realize at the time what kind of project he was participating in, even though (with more cultural sensitivity) he could have realized that inspiring anti-Islamic hatred must be among the goals of a film which shows someone who is dressed according to stereotypes of Muslims as killing a pregnant woman with a sword. Those who knew what the film was to be about (and who reportedly told lies to the others) obviously knew about the extremely offensive nature of the film and that it would be particularly hurtful and anger-provoking among Muslims. Obviously, that part was intentional. But I seriously think that they probably did not think far enough to realize the likely more long term consequences (some of which I seriously think would have looked very negative even from their warped perspective, if they would only have thought about those consequences). What I can tell you with certainty is that the vast majority of the people who here in Switzerland argued in favor of the ban on the construction of minarets had absolutely no understanding of how that would affect the ability of Switzerland-based people to be taken seriously in international discussions on any topic related to freedom of culture, religion, justice, or human rights in general. Switzerland has gotten some education in cultural sensitivity through this now, although in a very expensive way. > I figure pretty much every country has their strengths and weaknesses > in this area and often people within those countries are unaware of > how their actions are perceived. For example, some might perceive > that a country passing a constitutional amendment banning the > construction of minarets would suggest a certain lack of cultural > sensitivity and/or perhaps may not be the best to lecture others on > cultural sensitivity. YMMV. It is of course true that "pretty much every country has their strengths and weaknesses in this area and often people within those countries are unaware of how their actions are perceived". However it is also a fact that US people often come across as being particularly insensitive, much more so than people from elsewhere. You're of course free to disbelieve me on this point, be it because of the minarets issue or for some other reason. I would add though that I'm tired of people rubbing salt into the wounds of the minarets debacle so often when Switzerland is mentioned, even though I have never advocated in favor of that ban on minarets. For some reason it seems to be much much more fashionable to bash Switzerland in this regard than to discuss e.g. the very serious persecution of Christians happening in several countries. Those persecutions by the way are significantly contributing to the fear of Islam and anger about Islam, and should therefore be looked at as part of the problem. To get back to the question of where insights and/or lecturing on topics of cultural sensitivity could reasonably be sourced from, my only idea for sourcing educational resources on cultural sensitivity would be to look for help from international intercultural teams. (What I had written about sourcing this as "developmental aid" from Switzerland or from "so-called third world countries" was of course not meant seriously, as I had hoped the ":-)" at the end of that paragraph to make sufficiently clear.) Greetings, Norbert -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Mon Sep 24 07:57:40 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 14:57:40 +0300 Subject: [governance] Kim Dotcom: New Zealand to investigate unlawful spying Message-ID: <50604AB4.9080907@gmail.com> Kim Dotcom: New Zealand to investigate unlawful spying PM orders inquiry into actions of government agents in lead-up to arrest of Megaupload founder, who is fighting US extradition * Reuters in Wellington * guardian.co.uk , Monday 24 September 2012 09.57 BST Megaupload founder Dotcom at court in Wellington Megaupload founder Kim Dotcom outside the New Zealand court of appeals in Wellington. Photograph: Mark Coote/Reuters New Zealand 's prime minister, John Key, has launched a inquiry into "unlawful" spying by government agents leading to the arrest of Megaupload founder Kim Dotcom , who is fighting extradition to the US where he faces charges of internet piracy and breaking copyright laws. The investigation may deal another blow to the US case after a New Zealand court ruled in June that search warrants used in the raid on Dotcom's home earlier this year, requested by the FBI, were illegal. Key has asked the government's intelligence and security division to investigate "circumstances of unlawful interception of communications of certain individuals by the government communications security bureau", his office said in a statement on Monday. Key's spokesman would not comment on whether the "certain individuals" referred to Dotcom, his three colleagues also arrested and facing US charges, or all of them. "The bureau had acquired communications in some instances without statutory authority," Key's statement said. New Zealand authorities arrested Dotcom and his colleagues at his rented country estate near Auckland in January, confiscating computers and hard drives, works of art, and cars. The FBI accuses the flamboyant Dotcom, a 38-year-old German national also known as Kim Schmitz, of leading a group that netted $175m (£100m) since 2005 by copying and distributing music, films and other copyrighted content without authorisation. "I welcome the inquiry by [Key] into unlawful acts by the GCSB," Dotcom said on his Twitter account. Dotcom maintains that the Megaupload site was no more than an online storage facility, and has accused Hollywood of lobbying the US government to vilify him. The raid and evidence seizure has already been ruled illegal and a court has ruled that Dotcom should be allowed to see the evidence on which the extradition hearing will be based. US authorities have appealed against that ruling, and a decision is pending. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Megaupload-founder-Dotcom-008.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 37613 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From aldo.matteucci at gmail.com Mon Sep 24 08:01:29 2012 From: aldo.matteucci at gmail.com (Aldo Matteucci) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 14:01:29 +0200 Subject: [governance] Culture sensitivity education (was Re: Bangladesh Govt blocks YouTube) In-Reply-To: <20120924120731.4e7e1d15@quill.bollow.ch> References: <20120923155248.6646c475@quill.bollow.ch> <20120924120731.4e7e1d15@quill.bollow.ch> Message-ID: Norbert, three points: the Swiss discussion over minarets is a reply of the same discussion that enflamed protestant towns at the beginning of the XXth century, when rural catholics moved into the cities, built their clocktowers (rather phallic things if you allow) and thus changed the clean protestant landscape. The reciprocity argument has been much used and misused: they don't allow churches, why should we allow minarets? It is difficult to explain to people that we should live by their own principles - freedom of religion - and that other religions are entitlesd to a different regime - e.g. dar el islam. Same thing with outward sings of belief: we have abolished them recently, and expect others to interiorize their beliefs as well. This will shedding of outward signs come, but will take time. And we should stop harping on it: it's counterproductive. It becomes "pars pro toto" behaviour. Just because one wears a beard or a chaddor one is a "good" Muslim. Experts? For heavens sake - experimentation, trial and error is the answer. Experts are worth less than a farthing when it comes to behaviour of communities. It's about time we abandoned the belief that we KNOW - the truth, the behaviour of people, and humbly make our experiences like everyone else. As they evolve toward tolerance, we might use the time to rid ourselves of our arrogance of truth. Aldo On 24 September 2012 12:07, Norbert Bollow wrote: > David Conrad wrote: > > > Do you seriously think the folks who created the "Innocence of > > Muslims" abomination were ignorant of how their 'movie' would be > > received? > > At least one of the actors publicly insists that he was even ignorant > of what the 'movie' was truly about: "I was invited to an audition at > what looked like an old nightclub on La Cienega. There, I met the > director and another man who identified himself as Sam Bacile. The part > I read for was that of a doctor in a clinic. The director read the part > of the other character, a military officer of some kind. There was no > mention of Muhammad or Islam in the script I saw. ... A guy named > Jeffrey introduced himself as the assistant director of the film and > told me I would be playing a character named Amir. He gave me that > day's script and sent me off to makeup. Then I went to wardrobe, where > I was given a pair of sandals, a robe and a turban. It didn't seem like > doctor's clothing, but I didn't question it. ... The next morning, I > was handed a script and issued a sword, and we shot a scene in which > the character George told me to go and kill a pregnant woman." (Source: > > http://articles.latimes.com/2012/sep/18/opinion/la-oe-crawley-innocence-of-muslims-actor-20120918) > > If this actor's words are to be believed (and I have no reason not to > believe them), he truly did not realize at the time what kind of > project he was participating in, even though (with more cultural > sensitivity) he could have realized that inspiring anti-Islamic hatred > must be among the goals of a film which shows someone who is dressed > according to stereotypes of Muslims as killing a pregnant woman with a > sword. > > Those who knew what the film was to be about (and who reportedly told > lies to the others) obviously knew about the extremely offensive nature > of the film and that it would be particularly hurtful and > anger-provoking among Muslims. Obviously, that part was intentional. > But I seriously think that they probably did not think far enough to > realize the likely more long term consequences (some of which I > seriously think would have looked very negative even from their warped > perspective, if they would only have thought about those consequences). > > What I can tell you with certainty is that the vast majority of the > people who here in Switzerland argued in favor of the ban on the > construction of minarets had absolutely no understanding of how that > would affect the ability of Switzerland-based people to be taken > seriously in international discussions on any topic related to > freedom of culture, religion, justice, or human rights in general. > > Switzerland has gotten some education in cultural sensitivity through > this now, although in a very expensive way. > > > I figure pretty much every country has their strengths and weaknesses > > in this area and often people within those countries are unaware of > > how their actions are perceived. For example, some might perceive > > that a country passing a constitutional amendment banning the > > construction of minarets would suggest a certain lack of cultural > > sensitivity and/or perhaps may not be the best to lecture others on > > cultural sensitivity. YMMV. > > It is of course true that "pretty much every country has their > strengths and weaknesses in this area and often people within those > countries are unaware of how their actions are perceived". However it > is also a fact that US people often come across as being particularly > insensitive, much more so than people from elsewhere. You're of course > free to disbelieve me on this point, be it because of the minarets > issue or for some other reason. I would add though that I'm tired of > people rubbing salt into the wounds of the minarets debacle so often > when Switzerland is mentioned, even though I have never advocated in > favor of that ban on minarets. For some reason it seems to be much much > more fashionable to bash Switzerland in this regard than to discuss > e.g. the very serious persecution of Christians happening in several > countries. Those persecutions by the way are significantly contributing > to the fear of Islam and anger about Islam, and should therefore be > looked at as part of the problem. > > To get back to the question of where insights and/or lecturing on > topics of cultural sensitivity could reasonably be sourced from, my > only idea for sourcing educational resources on cultural sensitivity > would be to look for help from international intercultural teams. (What > I had written about sourcing this as "developmental aid" from > Switzerland or from "so-called third world countries" was of course not > meant seriously, as I had hoped the ":-)" at the end of that paragraph > to make sufficiently clear.) > > Greetings, > Norbert > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Aldo Matteucci 65, Pourtalèsstr. CH 3074 MURI b. Bern Switzerland aldo.matteucci at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From kerry at kdbsystems.com Mon Sep 24 09:06:09 2012 From: kerry at kdbsystems.com (Kerry Brown) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 13:06:09 +0000 Subject: [governance] 3322.org seized by Microsoft from Chinese DNS service provider In-Reply-To: <505FFA29.1040807@digsys.bg> References: <20120923110830.0038af8b@quill.bollow.ch> <505FFA29.1040807@digsys.bg> Message-ID: > This is an perfect example of abusing market share. In this case, the victims > computers were infected because of flaws in the software supplied by > Microsoft. Actually most computers are infected through social engineering and/or flaws in Adobe Flash, Reader, and Oracle Java. The underlying OS is becoming less relevant. An argument could be made that Windows 7 is currently the most secure of all the popular desktop OS's, at least until you start adding 3rd party software. In any case the rationale behind why Microsoft did this isn't important to the debate over if what they did is right or wrong. The end result was good for the Internet. Is that enough to justify what they did? Personally I'm torn. I applaud Microsoft for taking down some criminals, even if only temporarily. At the same time the issue of who has jurisdiction over a gTLD is a vexing question for which I have no answers. I think some successful gTLDs in jurisdictions other than the US may over time solve the problem. Consumers will have a choice of which jurisdiction they want their domain to fall under. They have that now with ccTLDs but more choice is always better. Kerry Brown -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From cveraq at gmail.com Mon Sep 24 09:27:24 2012 From: cveraq at gmail.com (Carlos Vera Quintana) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 08:27:24 -0500 Subject: [governance] Project Censores In-Reply-To: References: <20120923110830.0038af8b@quill.bollow.ch> <505F04E9.5080206@itforchange.net> <20120923164259.28de7c65@quill.bollow.ch> <7FB6F210-7285-48A9-8222-DAF1B5608392@gmail.com> Message-ID: This is also bout freedom of speech... Carlos Enviado desde mi iPhone El 23/09/2012, a las 20:50, Chaitanya Dhareshwar escribió: > It's nice (in that they try to be candid) - but chances are they'll end up prosecuted like most others. > > -C > > On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 1:57 AM, Carlos Vera Quintana wrote: >> Some opinion please? >> >> http://www.projectcensored.org/ >> >> Carlos Vera >> >> Enviado desde mi iPhone >> >> El 23/09/2012, a las 15:12, "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" escribió: >> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 2:42 AM, Norbert Bollow wrote: >>>> Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> > I don't feel that we need new legitimate international systems to >>>> > address the problem of botnets. >>>> >>>> I also certainly wouldn't ask for a "legitimate international systems to >>>> address the problem of botnets" specifically, but I share the concern >>>> that I believe Parminder was expressing, and I think that domain name >>>> seizures by US courts when the domain name holder is outside the US >>>> need to be either stopped or made subject to legitimate internationally >>>> agreed rules. >>> >>> The reality is that countries differ in the manner of categorising cyber crime and this poses a challenge as far as extra-territorial jurisdictional enforcement. If country A and country B both have the same categorisation of what they consider to be a cyber crime, then chances of law enforcement cooperation are higher then if they were'nt. For instance even despite things like the Budapest Convention it does not mean that categorisation is the same for countries who have ratified it. For example, if we take "child pornography", Article 9(2) limits this content related offence, see: "For the purpose of paragraph 1 above, the term "child pornography" shall include pornographic material that visually depicts" >>> >>> On one hand you have blind persons claiming "visual impairment" as a defence. >>> >>> >>> >>>> It is part of the responsibility of courts to weigh the effects of an >>>> order that is requested not only with regard to the litigants, but also >>>> with regard to the public interest and with regard to innocent third >>>> parties that might be affected. >>> The third parties are those computers who have been infected by "Malware" andl who have no idea that their machines are being unscrupulously used by a few. >>> >>>> Third parties who would be affected by >>>> the order must be given a fair opportunity to inform the court about >>>> how they would be affected. >>> Imagine in this case identifying the John Does and flying 35 million persons for one trial. So it follows that enforcement in this regard is not that simple. >>>> >>>> Does anyone seriously believe that in this case there was any chance >>>> for the effects on the innocent third parties in China to be explained, >>>> or appropriately weighted, or weighted as strongly as if they had been >>>> US residents? >>> Botnets are global and so end users computers who are caught in the "dragnet" are from the world over. You are right there should be robust dialogue and discussions on this matter as far as establishing criminal liability, rights of parties etc etc. >>>> >>>> All website addresses and email addresses at subdomains of 3322.org >>>> were destroyed by the seizure. In my understanding that was "arbitrary >>>> or unlawful interference with" the "correspondence" of innocent >>>> people, and therefore a human rights violation (see ICCPR [1], article >>>> 17). >>>> [1] http://idgovmap.org/map/treaty/ICCPR >>> >>> Well this is something that should be robustly discussed etc where we collectively explore all sides and weigh the matter thoroughly. >>>> >>>> >>>> (IMO, if the US court did not consider the effects on the innocent >>>> third parties, then the seizure was *arbitrary* interference. If the >>>> court considered those side-effects but considered them justifiable, >>>> then the seizure was *unlawful* interference, because US courts lack >>>> jurisdiction to decide that the correspondence of a Chinese person in >>>> China with other people in China may for some reason lawfully be >>>> interfered with.) >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Greetings, >>>> Norbert >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala >>> P.O. Box 17862 >>> Suva >>> Fiji >>> >>> Twitter: @SalanietaT >>> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro >>> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >>> To be removed from the list, visit: >>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >>> >>> For all other list information and functions, see: >>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >>> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >>> >>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From gpaque at gmail.com Mon Sep 24 09:43:53 2012 From: gpaque at gmail.com (Ginger Paque) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 08:43:53 -0500 Subject: [governance] LACIGF Remote Participation Message-ID: Please note that the streaming of the LAC IGF meeting is already available at http://www.ustream.tv/channel/fgicolombia although the meeting does not start for almost an hour. Please follow and add your tweets/comments/questions to #fgicolombia The stream also has a chat window which will be monitored on site so that your interventions can be read into the meeting. The agenda for today is Access and Diversity (see the agenda at http://www.lacigf.org/en/lacigf5/agenda.html). Please distribute this information to your interested colleagues and join us! Best, Ginger Ginger (Virginia) Paque VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu Diplo Foundation Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme www.diplomacy.edu/ig ** ** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From parminder at itforchange.net Mon Sep 24 12:26:21 2012 From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 21:56:21 +0530 Subject: [governance] implications of private TLDs Message-ID: <506089AD.3020007@itforchange.net> Hi All Below is the link to an op ed in a top Indian daily 'The Hindu' that we did on the implications of private top level domains being allowed in the new gtld policy ... parminder http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/beauty-lies-in-the-domain-of-the-highest-bidder/article3929612.ece -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From nb at bollow.ch Mon Sep 24 12:29:22 2012 From: nb at bollow.ch (Norbert Bollow) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 18:29:22 +0200 Subject: [governance] 3322.org seized by Microsoft from Chinese DNS service provider In-Reply-To: References: <20120923110830.0038af8b@quill.bollow.ch> <505FFA29.1040807@digsys.bg> Message-ID: <20120924182922.42d2f72b@quill.bollow.ch> Kerry Brown wrote: > I think some successful gTLDs in jurisdictions other > than the US may over time solve the problem. Consumers will have a > choice of which jurisdiction they want their domain to fall under. > They have that now with ccTLDs but more choice is always better. Do we have any assurance that if a gTLD applies policies that are not in line with US law, the same thing that has happened to 3322.org won't happen to that gTLD? Isn't ICANN under US jurisdiction as much as the .org registry is? Greetings, Norbert -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From kerry at kdbsystems.com Mon Sep 24 13:09:01 2012 From: kerry at kdbsystems.com (Kerry Brown) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 17:09:01 +0000 Subject: [governance] 3322.org seized by Microsoft from Chinese DNS service provider In-Reply-To: <20120924182922.42d2f72b@quill.bollow.ch> References: <20120923110830.0038af8b@quill.bollow.ch> <505FFA29.1040807@digsys.bg> <20120924182922.42d2f72b@quill.bollow.ch> Message-ID: To date this hasn't happened. For many reasons, both technical and political, I think it unlikely to happen. It's easy to change a second level record in a TLD name server or a third level record in a DNS host's name server. It's not so easy to block or redirect one second level domain or several third level domains at the root level. It would introduce more complexity at the root level. It can certainly be done but I think it is unlikely it would be. Kerry Brown > -----Original Message----- > From: Norbert Bollow [mailto:nb at bollow.ch] > Sent: September-24-12 9:29 AM > To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org > Cc: Kerry Brown > Subject: Re: [governance] 3322.org seized by Microsoft from Chinese DNS > service provider > > Kerry Brown wrote: > > > I think some successful gTLDs in jurisdictions other than the US may > > over time solve the problem. Consumers will have a choice of which > > jurisdiction they want their domain to fall under. > > They have that now with ccTLDs but more choice is always better. > > Do we have any assurance that if a gTLD applies policies that are not in line > with US law, the same thing that has happened to 3322.org won't happen to > that gTLD? Isn't ICANN under US jurisdiction as much as the .org registry is? > > Greetings, > Norbert -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From nb at bollow.ch Mon Sep 24 13:43:58 2012 From: nb at bollow.ch (Norbert Bollow) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 19:43:58 +0200 Subject: [governance] 3322.org seized by Microsoft from Chinese DNS service provider In-Reply-To: References: <20120923110830.0038af8b@quill.bollow.ch> <505FFA29.1040807@digsys.bg> <20120924182922.42d2f72b@quill.bollow.ch> Message-ID: <20120924194358.5600c776@quill.bollow.ch> Hi Kerry, your response sounds like you may have missed one of the main points about the 3322.org takedown: 3322.org had a role similar to one of the ways in which one of the new gTLDs might conceivably be used. I am not talking about a hypothetical demand "to block or redirect one second level domain or several third level domains at the root level", but I'm asking about whether we have any assurance that ICANN won't be subject to a US court order to take down an entire foreign-based gTLD for reasons of non-compliance with US views on how "piracy" should be combated. Greetings, Norbert Kerry Brown wrote: > To date this hasn't happened. For many reasons, both technical and > political, I think it unlikely to happen. It's easy to change a > second level record in a TLD name server or a third level record in a > DNS host's name server. It's not so easy to block or redirect one > second level domain or several third level domains at the root level. > It would introduce more complexity at the root level. It can > certainly be done but I think it is unlikely it would be. > > Kerry Brown > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Norbert Bollow [mailto:nb at bollow.ch] > > Sent: September-24-12 9:29 AM > > To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org > > Cc: Kerry Brown > > Subject: Re: [governance] 3322.org seized by Microsoft from Chinese > > DNS service provider > > > > Kerry Brown wrote: > > > > > I think some successful gTLDs in jurisdictions other than the US > > > may over time solve the problem. Consumers will have a choice of > > > which jurisdiction they want their domain to fall under. > > > They have that now with ccTLDs but more choice is always better. > > > > Do we have any assurance that if a gTLD applies policies that are > > not in line with US law, the same thing that has happened to > > 3322.org won't happen to that gTLD? Isn't ICANN under US > > jurisdiction as much as the .org registry is? > > > > Greetings, > > Norbert > -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From info at freshmail.de Mon Sep 24 13:46:00 2012 From: info at freshmail.de (Matthias Pfeifer Freshmail) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 19:46:00 +0200 Subject: [governance] implications of private TLDs References: <506089AD.3020007@itforchange.net> Message-ID: Hello Parminder. In case of Loreal, the article is not 100% correct. Sure, it is treated as a private TLD, but they don't say (yet) that subdomains can only used by Loreal itself. Some hints of how they would operate the TLD can be found in section "18(a). Describe the mission/purpose of your proposed gTLD." See the "Stages" :) http://gtldresult.icann.org/application-result/applicationstatus/applicationdetails:downloadapplication/1027?t:ac=1027 But anyway, private usage of generic terms is questionable. Matthias Pfeifer IT-Consulting ----- Original Message ----- From: parminder To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 6:26 PM Subject: [governance] implications of private TLDs Hi All Below is the link to an op ed in a top Indian daily 'The Hindu' that we did on the implications of private top level domains being allowed in the new gtld policy ... parminder http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/beauty-lies-in-the-domain-of-the-highest-bidder/article3929612.ece ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ajp at glocom.ac.jp Mon Sep 24 14:05:18 2012 From: ajp at glocom.ac.jp (Adam Peake) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 03:05:18 +0900 Subject: [governance] implications of private TLDs In-Reply-To: References: <506089AD.3020007@itforchange.net> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 2:46 AM, Matthias Pfeifer Freshmail wrote: > Hello Parminder. > > In case of Loreal, the article is not 100% correct. > yes, and it's also contested so not certain L'Oreal will get the name. Adam > Sure, it is treated as a private TLD, but they don't say (yet) that > subdomains can only > used by Loreal itself. > > Some hints of how they would operate the TLD can be found in section > "18(a). Describe the mission/purpose of your proposed gTLD." > > See the "Stages" :) > > http://gtldresult.icann.org/application-result/applicationstatus/applicationdetails:downloadapplication/1027?t:ac=1027 > > But anyway, private usage of generic terms is questionable. > > > > > Matthias Pfeifer IT-Consulting > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: parminder > To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org > Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 6:26 PM > Subject: [governance] implications of private TLDs > > Hi All > > Below is the link to an op ed in a top Indian daily 'The Hindu' that we did > on the implications of private top level domains being allowed in the new > gtld policy ... parminder > > http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/beauty-lies-in-the-domain-of-the-highest-bidder/article3929612.ece > > > ________________________________ > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From mmarius at ict-pulse.com Mon Sep 24 14:12:17 2012 From: mmarius at ict-pulse.com (mmarius at ict-pulse.com) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 12:12:17 -0600 Subject: [governance] Kim Dotcom: New Zealand to investigate unlawful spying In-Reply-To: <50604AB4.9080907@gmail.com> References: <50604AB4.9080907@gmail.com> Message-ID: <992ff2ab60602080e5dca390a3a8ff28.squirrel@ict-pulse.com> This inquiry is not surprising, all things considered. Looking back on the arrest of Kim Dotcom - and not taking anything away from the myrid of allegations against him and Megaupload - the arrest and efforts to extradite him appeared a bit over-zealous, especially on the part of the NZ police... Having said this, many countries can be intimidated when the US comes a-knocking, but it incumbent for those countries to do their own due diligence to ensure that due process according to their legal system are followed... Regards, Michele Marius Blog: http://www.ict-pulse.com Twitter: @ictpulse Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ICTPulse LinkedIn: http://jm.linkedin.com/in/mariusms =============== > > Kim Dotcom: New Zealand to investigate unlawful spying > > PM orders inquiry into actions of government agents in lead-up to arrest > of Megaupload founder, who is fighting US extradition > > > * > Reuters in Wellington > * guardian.co.uk , Monday 24 September > 2012 09.57 BST > > Megaupload founder Dotcom at court in Wellington > Megaupload founder Kim Dotcom outside the New Zealand court of appeals > in Wellington. Photograph: Mark Coote/Reuters > > New Zealand 's prime > minister, John Key, has launched a inquiry into "unlawful" spying by > government agents leading to the arrest of Megaupload > founder Kim Dotcom > , who is fighting > extradition to the US where he faces charges of internet > piracy and breaking > copyright laws. > > The investigation may deal another blow to the US case after a New > Zealand court ruled in June that search warrants used in the raid on > Dotcom's home earlier this year, requested by the FBI, were illegal. > > Key has asked the government's intelligence and security division to > investigate "circumstances of unlawful interception of communications of > certain individuals by the government communications security bureau", > his office said in a statement on Monday. > > Key's spokesman would not comment on whether the "certain individuals" > referred to Dotcom, his three colleagues also arrested and facing US > charges, or all of them. > > "The bureau had acquired communications in some instances without > statutory authority," Key's statement said. > > New Zealand authorities arrested Dotcom and his colleagues at his rented > country estate near Auckland in January, confiscating computers and hard > drives, works of art, and cars. > > The FBI accuses the flamboyant Dotcom, a 38-year-old German national > also known as Kim Schmitz, of leading a group that netted $175m (£100m) > since 2005 by copying and distributing music, films and other > copyrighted content without authorisation. > > "I welcome the inquiry by [Key] into unlawful acts by the GCSB," Dotcom > said on his Twitter account. > > Dotcom maintains that the Megaupload site was no more than an online > storage facility, and has accused Hollywood of lobbying the US > government to vilify him. > > The raid and evidence seizure has already been ruled illegal and a court > has ruled that Dotcom should be allowed to see the evidence on which the > extradition hearing will be based. > > US authorities have appealed against that ruling, and a decision is > pending. > > -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Mon Sep 24 15:45:57 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 07:45:57 +1200 Subject: [governance] 3322.org seized by Microsoft from Chinese DNS service provider In-Reply-To: References: <20120923110830.0038af8b@quill.bollow.ch> <505FFA29.1040807@digsys.bg> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 1:06 AM, Kerry Brown wrote: > > > This is an perfect example of abusing market share. In this case, the > victims > > computers were infected because of flaws in the software supplied by > > Microsoft. > > Actually most computers are infected through social engineering and/or > flaws in Adobe Flash, Reader, and Oracle Java. The underlying OS is > becoming less relevant. An argument could be made that Windows 7 is > currently the most secure of all the popular desktop OS's, at least until > you start adding 3rd party software. > > In any case the rationale behind why Microsoft did this isn't important to > the debate over if what they did is right or wrong. The end result was good > for the Internet. Is that enough to justify what they did? Personally I'm > torn. +1 It is indeed challenging and there are no easy answers. > I applaud Microsoft for taking down some criminals, even if only > temporarily. At the same time the issue of who has jurisdiction over a gTLD > is a vexing question for which I have no answers. I think some successful > gTLDs in jurisdictions other than the US may over time solve the problem. > Consumers will have a choice of which jurisdiction they want their domain > to fall under. They have that now with ccTLDs but more choice is always > better. > > Kerry Brown > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Mon Sep 24 17:44:57 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 09:44:57 +1200 Subject: [governance] Freedom of Expression #FoX #FoE #Vietnamese Bloggers Arrested Message-ID: Dear All, The recent convictions of three Vietnamese bloggers who appear to have done nothing more than exercise their right to freedom of expression. Nguyen Van Hai (aka Dieu Cay) was sentenced to twelve years, Ta Phong Tan received ten years, and Phan Thanh Hai, four years. All face house arrest following completion of their sentences. This highlights the need to generate discussion, dialogue on the exceptions and abuse of exceptions of Article 19 of the ICCPR. Sala On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 8:20 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear Rony, > > One of the things that don't get discussed in my view often enough as far > as Article 19 of the ICCPR is concerned is the exception and the abuse of > the exceptions. This is because from observation, we are witnessing both > extremes of the spectrum. These are what I perceive to be extremes:- > > - Absolute Freedom of Expression where there is a perception that this > is an unfettered right; > - Abuse of the Exceptions in Article 19 where this goes against the > preamble of the ICCPR or the spirit in which these provisions were crafted. > > The events that occurred in Libya resulting from a person's freedom of > expression led to the causing turbulence which resulted in a "viral spill > over" (Aldo Matteuci) that not only threatened law and order but lives > were taken. > > In Aldo's piece, he points to the French Declaration of the Rights of Man > and of the Citizen 1789, see: > > "Article 10—No-one should be harassed for his opinions, even religious > views, provided that the expression of such opinions does not cause a > breach of the peace as established by law. > > Article 11—The free communication of thought and opinions is one of the > most precious rights of man. Any citizen can therefore speak, write and > publish freely; however, they are answerable for abuse of this freedom as > determined by law." > > Source: > http://www.diplomacy.edu/blog/168-%E2%80%93-i%E2%80%99m-deeply-saddened-today > > > In my view, Article 19 of the ICCPR was not designed to be interpreted > according to the two extremes, they were meant to be read in the spirit of > the preamble. The reality is that the two extremes have the potential to > bring about much harm to the ordinary person on the street. In the first > extreme, we see with the case the effect that one "video" could incite such > vehemence and hatred leading to the loss of innocent lives. > > The fact that the crafters of the French Declaration of the Rights of Man > or the ICCPR could foresee challenges of both extremes meant that they had > witnessed and made observations.History has been a great teacher but not > so great if we continue to repeat our errors. > > Of course all this is based on the assumption that we all want "peace". > > > > On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 12:10 AM, Koven Ronald wrote: > >> Dear Sala -- >> >> I was very bothered by this statement of yours justifying restrictions >> on freedom of expression. Of course, we all know that freedom of speech >> can't be absolute. But proclaiming that evident home truth in difficult >> contexts like the present crisis can only lend comfort to the >> restrictionists of freedom of expression. >> >> There is a generally accepted Anglo-Saxon legal dictum: "Hard cases >> make bad law." We seem to be confronted with just such a "hard case." Here >> is a NYTimes article today on the dilemma of major I'net service providers >> over stopping access to the offensive anti-Mohammed film: >> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/14/technology/google-blocks-inflammatory-video-in-egypt-and-libya.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20120914 >> >> The article reflects the understandably ambivalent responses of free >> speech advocates to this crisis. The issue should be approached in a more >> nuanced way than merely noting that freedom of expression isn't absolute. >> >> It seems to me that a more helpful approach, for example, is to note >> that incitement to violence with the likelihood that the violence will >> ensue is not legal anywhere, including under the anti-restrictionist US >> First Amendment. One could argue that the film in question is just such an >> incitement -- and that its producers likely knew that to be the case. That >> would put a rather different light on restricting access to the film than >> simply making a blanket statement to the effect that freedom of expression >> is not absolute. >> >> Best regards, Rony Koven, World Press Freedom Committee >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro > > >> To: governance >> Sent: Thu, Sep 13, 2012 10:17 pm >> Subject: [governance] Freedom of Expression #FoX #FoE #Yemen #Libya >> >> Dear All, >> >> International law is clear about Freedom of Expression not being an >> unfettered right as espoused within these laws themselves and has been >> discussed at great length on the list numerous times over. I was also >> saddened that the irresponsible production of "content" was used to enflame >> tension and accelerate unrest and cause a massive revolt amongst those that >> were deeply offended by it. >> >> There is a piece written by Aldo, see: >> http://www.diplomacy.edu/blog/168-%E2%80%93-i%E2%80%99m-deeply-saddened-today >> >> >> Kind Regards, >> >> -- >> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala >> P.O. Box 17862 >> Suva >> Fiji >> >> Twitter: @SalanietaT >> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro >> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 >> >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From vanda at uol.com.br Mon Sep 24 18:19:55 2012 From: vanda at uol.com.br (Vanda UOL) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 19:19:55 -0300 Subject: [governance] Peace for your Yon Kippur ! Message-ID: <045901cd9aa2$ec0c2210$c4246630$@uol.com.br> To all friends that will guard the Yon Kippur tomorrow, Vanda Scartezini Polo Consultores Associados IT Trend Avenida Paulista 1159 cj 1004 01311-200 São Paulo,SP, Brasil Tel + 5511 3266.6253 Mob + 5511 98181.1464 Domain dialing Descrição: Descrição: Siter-16-square.png www.siter.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2817 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image005.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 7456 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 11574 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image004.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1020 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image009.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 957 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Mon Sep 24 19:55:11 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 11:55:11 +1200 Subject: [governance] Peace for your Yon Kippur ! In-Reply-To: <045901cd9aa2$ec0c2210$c4246630$@uol.com.br> References: <045901cd9aa2$ec0c2210$c4246630$@uol.com.br> Message-ID: Best wishes to all those celebrating Yom Kippur! Warm Regards, Sala 2012/9/25 Vanda UOL > To all friends that will guard the Yon Kippur tomorrow, **** > > * * > > **** > *Vanda Scartezini* > > *****Polo Consultores Associados* ** > > *IT Trend* > > *Avenida Paulista 1159 cj 1004* > > *01311-200 São Paulo,SP, Brasil* > > *Tel + 5511 3266.6253* > > *Mob + 5511 98181.1464* > > Domain dialing **** > > * **[image: Descrição: Descrição: Siter-16-square.png]** **www.siter.com* > * ***** > > ** ** > > * ***** > > ** ** > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image009.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 957 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image004.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1020 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 11574 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From kerry at kdbsystems.com Mon Sep 24 20:19:46 2012 From: kerry at kdbsystems.com (Kerry Brown) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 00:19:46 +0000 Subject: [governance] 3322.org seized by Microsoft from Chinese DNS service provider In-Reply-To: <20120924194358.5600c776@quill.bollow.ch> References: <20120923110830.0038af8b@quill.bollow.ch> <505FFA29.1040807@digsys.bg> <20120924182922.42d2f72b@quill.bollow.ch> <20120924194358.5600c776@quill.bollow.ch> Message-ID: My understanding is they redirected "took control" of several subdomains of the second level domain 3322.org. This would make them third level domains. I agree that theoretically the US courts could try to compel ICANN to do something like this at the root level. I don't think that would happen for reasons both technical and political. I could very well be wrong. Kerry Brown > -----Original Message----- > From: Norbert Bollow [mailto:nb at bollow.ch] > Sent: September-24-12 10:44 AM > To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org > Cc: Kerry Brown > Subject: Re: [governance] 3322.org seized by Microsoft from Chinese DNS > service provider > > Hi Kerry, > > your response sounds like you may have missed one of the main points > about the 3322.org takedown: 3322.org had a role similar to one of the ways > in which one of the new gTLDs might conceivably be used. I am not talking > about a hypothetical demand "to block or redirect one second level domain > or several third level domains at the root level", but I'm asking about > whether we have any assurance that ICANN won't be subject to a US court > order to take down an entire foreign-based gTLD for reasons of non- > compliance with US views on how "piracy" > should be combated. > > Greetings, > Norbert > > Kerry Brown wrote: > > > To date this hasn't happened. For many reasons, both technical and > > political, I think it unlikely to happen. It's easy to change a second > > level record in a TLD name server or a third level record in a DNS > > host's name server. It's not so easy to block or redirect one second > > level domain or several third level domains at the root level. > > It would introduce more complexity at the root level. It can > > certainly be done but I think it is unlikely it would be. > > > > Kerry Brown > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Norbert Bollow [mailto:nb at bollow.ch] > > > Sent: September-24-12 9:29 AM > > > To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org > > > Cc: Kerry Brown > > > Subject: Re: [governance] 3322.org seized by Microsoft from Chinese > > > DNS service provider > > > > > > Kerry Brown wrote: > > > > > > > I think some successful gTLDs in jurisdictions other than the US > > > > may over time solve the problem. Consumers will have a choice of > > > > which jurisdiction they want their domain to fall under. > > > > They have that now with ccTLDs but more choice is always better. > > > > > > Do we have any assurance that if a gTLD applies policies that are > > > not in line with US law, the same thing that has happened to > > > 3322.org won't happen to that gTLD? Isn't ICANN under US > > > jurisdiction as much as the .org registry is? > > > > > > Greetings, > > > Norbert > > -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Mon Sep 24 20:23:40 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 12:23:40 +1200 Subject: [governance] 3322.org seized by Microsoft from Chinese DNS service provider In-Reply-To: References: <20120923110830.0038af8b@quill.bollow.ch> <505FFA29.1040807@digsys.bg> <20120924182922.42d2f72b@quill.bollow.ch> <20120924194358.5600c776@quill.bollow.ch> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 12:19 PM, Kerry Brown wrote: > My understanding is they redirected "took control" of several subdomains > of the second level domain 3322.org. This would make them third level > domains. I agree that theoretically the US courts could try to compel ICANN > to do something like this at the root level. I don't think that would > happen for reasons both technical and political. I could very well be wrong. > > Kerry Brown > > That in itself would threaten the security and stability of the Internet. I thought that this would be a good time to discuss the potential ramifications of DNSfiltering and how this affects the Internet and the ordinary end user. Circle ID on May 26, 2011 had published a paper which was submitted to US Congress by Experts on the danger of DNS filtering, see: http://www.circleid.com/posts/20110525_experts_urge_congress_to_reject_proposed_dns_filtering_protect_ip/ > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Norbert Bollow [mailto:nb at bollow.ch] > > Sent: September-24-12 10:44 AM > > To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org > > Cc: Kerry Brown > > Subject: Re: [governance] 3322.org seized by Microsoft from Chinese DNS > > service provider > > > > Hi Kerry, > > > > your response sounds like you may have missed one of the main points > > about the 3322.org takedown: 3322.org had a role similar to one of the > ways > > in which one of the new gTLDs might conceivably be used. I am not talking > > about a hypothetical demand "to block or redirect one second level domain > > or several third level domains at the root level", but I'm asking about > > whether we have any assurance that ICANN won't be subject to a US court > > order to take down an entire foreign-based gTLD for reasons of non- > > compliance with US views on how "piracy" > > should be combated. > > > > Greetings, > > Norbert > > > > Kerry Brown wrote: > > > > > To date this hasn't happened. For many reasons, both technical and > > > political, I think it unlikely to happen. It's easy to change a second > > > level record in a TLD name server or a third level record in a DNS > > > host's name server. It's not so easy to block or redirect one second > > > level domain or several third level domains at the root level. > > > It would introduce more complexity at the root level. It can > > > certainly be done but I think it is unlikely it would be. > > > > > > Kerry Brown > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Norbert Bollow [mailto:nb at bollow.ch] > > > > Sent: September-24-12 9:29 AM > > > > To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org > > > > Cc: Kerry Brown > > > > Subject: Re: [governance] 3322.org seized by Microsoft from Chinese > > > > DNS service provider > > > > > > > > Kerry Brown wrote: > > > > > > > > > I think some successful gTLDs in jurisdictions other than the US > > > > > may over time solve the problem. Consumers will have a choice of > > > > > which jurisdiction they want their domain to fall under. > > > > > They have that now with ccTLDs but more choice is always better. > > > > > > > > Do we have any assurance that if a gTLD applies policies that are > > > > not in line with US law, the same thing that has happened to > > > > 3322.org won't happen to that gTLD? Isn't ICANN under US > > > > jurisdiction as much as the .org registry is? > > > > > > > > Greetings, > > > > Norbert > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From kerry at kdbsystems.com Mon Sep 24 20:37:29 2012 From: kerry at kdbsystems.com (Kerry Brown) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 00:37:29 +0000 Subject: [governance] 3322.org seized by Microsoft from Chinese DNS service provider In-Reply-To: References: <20120923110830.0038af8b@quill.bollow.ch> <505FFA29.1040807@digsys.bg> <20120924182922.42d2f72b@quill.bollow.ch> <20120924194358.5600c776@quill.bollow.ch> Message-ID: I think this section of the paper says it all: DNS filters would be evaded easily, and would likely prove ineffective at reducing online infringement. Unless the filtering is done at the root it is trivial to evade. Filtering at the IANA root level would introduce a lot of complexity that would definitely have some technical and political hurdles to overcome. It is obviously being done in some countries but it is usually easily worked around. The only effective filtering that is hard to work around is IP address filtering. DNS is so resilient it's hard to enforce filters. In any case as DPI becomes easy and cheaper repressive regimes will probably want to allow access so they can monitor users rather than block them. I think DPI and MITM attacks are a much bigger threat than DNS filtering. This doesn't mean I'm OK with DNS filtering. I think even "benign" filtering like openDNS is wrong. Kerry Brown From: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro [mailto:salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com] Sent: September-24-12 5:24 PM To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Kerry Brown Subject: Re: [governance] 3322.org seized by Microsoft from Chinese DNS service provider On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 12:19 PM, Kerry Brown > wrote: My understanding is they redirected "took control" of several subdomains of the second level domain 3322.org. This would make them third level domains. I agree that theoretically the US courts could try to compel ICANN to do something like this at the root level. I don't think that would happen for reasons both technical and political. I could very well be wrong. Kerry Brown That in itself would threaten the security and stability of the Internet. I thought that this would be a good time to discuss the potential ramifications of DNSfiltering and how this affects the Internet and the ordinary end user. Circle ID on May 26, 2011 had published a paper which was submitted to US Congress by Experts on the danger of DNS filtering, see: http://www.circleid.com/posts/20110525_experts_urge_congress_to_reject_proposed_dns_filtering_protect_ip/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Norbert Bollow [mailto:nb at bollow.ch] > Sent: September-24-12 10:44 AM > To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org > Cc: Kerry Brown > Subject: Re: [governance] 3322.org seized by Microsoft from Chinese DNS > service provider > > Hi Kerry, > > your response sounds like you may have missed one of the main points > about the 3322.org takedown: 3322.org had a role similar to one of the ways > in which one of the new gTLDs might conceivably be used. I am not talking > about a hypothetical demand "to block or redirect one second level domain > or several third level domains at the root level", but I'm asking about > whether we have any assurance that ICANN won't be subject to a US court > order to take down an entire foreign-based gTLD for reasons of non- > compliance with US views on how "piracy" > should be combated. > > Greetings, > Norbert > > Kerry Brown > wrote: > > > To date this hasn't happened. For many reasons, both technical and > > political, I think it unlikely to happen. It's easy to change a second > > level record in a TLD name server or a third level record in a DNS > > host's name server. It's not so easy to block or redirect one second > > level domain or several third level domains at the root level. > > It would introduce more complexity at the root level. It can > > certainly be done but I think it is unlikely it would be. > > > > Kerry Brown > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Norbert Bollow [mailto:nb at bollow.ch] > > > Sent: September-24-12 9:29 AM > > > To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org > > > Cc: Kerry Brown > > > Subject: Re: [governance] 3322.org seized by Microsoft from Chinese > > > DNS service provider > > > > > > Kerry Brown > wrote: > > > > > > > I think some successful gTLDs in jurisdictions other than the US > > > > may over time solve the problem. Consumers will have a choice of > > > > which jurisdiction they want their domain to fall under. > > > > They have that now with ccTLDs but more choice is always better. > > > > > > Do we have any assurance that if a gTLD applies policies that are > > > not in line with US law, the same thing that has happened to > > > 3322.org won't happen to that gTLD? Isn't ICANN under US > > > jurisdiction as much as the .org registry is? > > > > > > Greetings, > > > Norbert > > ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From parminder at itforchange.net Mon Sep 24 22:08:19 2012 From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 07:38:19 +0530 Subject: [governance] implications of private TLDs In-Reply-To: References: <506089AD.3020007@itforchange.net> Message-ID: <50611213.8000404@itforchange.net> Matthias, Thanks for your observations. I did read the Loreal application before I wrote the article. Stage 1 and stage 2 are what they commit to which consists of allowing only Loreal and close partners (as selected by Loreal) to register.... This is consistent with saying that Loreal will be able use it like its private property..... In any case, the article explicates the meaning of private against public use in specifically giving the example of how a corner beauty salon would not be able to freely seek registration under .beauty. parminder On Monday 24 September 2012 11:16 PM, Matthias Pfeifer Freshmail wrote: > Hello Parminder. > In case of Loreal, the article is not 100% correct. > Sure, it is treated as a private TLD, but they don't say (yet) that > subdomains can only > used by Loreal itself. > Some hints of how they would operate the TLD can be found in section > "18(a). Describe the mission/purpose of your proposed gTLD." > See the "Stages" :) > http://gtldresult.icann.org/application-result/applicationstatus/applicationdetails:downloadapplication/1027?t:ac=1027 > But anyway, private usage of generic terms is questionable. > Matthias Pfeifer IT-Consulting > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* parminder > *To:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org > > *Sent:* Monday, September 24, 2012 6:26 PM > *Subject:* [governance] implications of private TLDs > > Hi All > > Below is the link to an op ed in a top Indian daily 'The Hindu' > that we did on the implications of private top level domains > being allowed in the new gtld policy ... parminder > > http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/beauty-lies-in-the-domain-of-the-highest-bidder/article3929612.ece > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From daniel at digsys.bg Tue Sep 25 00:58:16 2012 From: daniel at digsys.bg (Daniel Kalchev) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 07:58:16 +0300 Subject: [governance] 3322.org seized by Microsoft from Chinese DNS service provider In-Reply-To: References: <20120923110830.0038af8b@quill.bollow.ch> <505FFA29.1040807@digsys.bg> <20120924182922.42d2f72b@quill.bollow.ch> <20120924194358.5600c776@quill.bollow.ch> Message-ID: On Sep 25, 2012, at 3:23 AM, "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" wrote: > > > On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 12:19 PM, Kerry Brown wrote: > My understanding is they redirected "took control" of several subdomains of the second level domain 3322.org. This would make them third level domains. I agree that theoretically the US courts could try to compel ICANN to do something like this at the root level. I don't think that would happen for reasons both technical and political. I could very well be wrong. > > Kerry Brown > > That in itself would threaten the security and stability of the Internet. According to whois, the domain 3322.org is resolved by two servers, apparently property of Microsoft. It seems that Microsoft has cloned the 3322.org zone and is selectively editing out any subdomain they do not like. So much about 'sophisticated' technology. Such ideas and even provisions exist with TLDs. gTLDs are contractually obliged to provide their zone data (and more) to ICANN or "trusted third party". While not contractually obliged to do so, I believe many ccTLDs are subject to the same policy (even worse, data is copied without their consent). The general idea is that ICANN should be able to "restore the service" if the TLD operator fails. Not much different than what happened with 3322.org, if you think of it. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Daniel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Tue Sep 25 03:52:01 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 10:52:01 +0300 Subject: [governance] FT: Intellectual property: A new world of royalties In-Reply-To: <2d67357e2e269ba4046d7704b09415ae.squirrel@webmail.keionline.org> References: <2d67357e2e269ba4046d7704b09415ae.squirrel@webmail.keionline.org> Message-ID: <506162A1.6070205@gmail.com> September 23, 2012 9:15 pm Intellectual property: A new world of royalties By Alan Beattie The US wants tougher IP rules in new trade deals but emerging markets are worried about the terms ©Getty While 16th-century explorers secured royalties armed with 'letters patent', US companies now want to protect theirs through trade deals The early-modern European pioneers of global trade ventured abroad with “letters patent” from their monarchs and sent back royalties for the use of the sovereign’s name. These days, royalties accrue to the rising barons of the global economy: the makers of internet technology, pharmaceuticals, music and films. Global trade, once a matter of ports, trucks and container ships, is increasingly a question of patents, trademarks and copyright. The US, the imperial capital of intellectual property (IP) rights, now earns almost as much in royalty and licence fee payments from abroad as from its famed farm exports – and the net surplus in royalties for the US last year was twice as big as for agriculture. But the global spread of IP rules, with Washington as their most enthusiastic advocate, has met resistance. Critics charge that, through its attempts to write IP rules into trade agreements, the US is promoting a one-sided – even dysfunctional – IP rights culture around the world. Keith Maskus, an expert IP and trade at the University of Colorado, says: “There is a lot of truth to the claim that the US has exported its IP law – and the pathology of its IP law.” Intellectual property has been an established if controversial part of trade deals since the early 1990s, when Washington succeeded in writing the Trips (trade-related aspects of intellectual property rights) agreement into WTO law. Trips, to the anger of some developing countries dependent on generic pharmaceutical production, forced WTO members to enact a minimum level of patent, copyright and trademark protection. Many nations argued this was onerous and the move also disturbed some orthodox free-trade economists, who noted that granting a monopoly right like a patent is a very different principle to lowering import tariffs to liberalise commerce. As the software, technology and entertainment industries have grown, and the digitisation of media and the internet have integrated global markets, the US – continually lobbied by the likes of Disney, Universal and Microsoft – has pushed for ever tougher rules. For them, it is about rule of law: for some developing countries, and campaigners already sceptical of trade pacts, it is another power-grab by rich-world companies. Strong opposition to IP from developing countries kept the issue out of the global “Doha round” of WTO trade talks, launched in 2001. But with the Doha round in effect dead, the US has pursued the issue in smaller deals where it has relatively more clout. Chief among them is the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) with eight other Asia-Pacific countries, for which talks were launched in 2010 and which the US wants to turn into a global template for future pacts. It is hard to assess progress in the TPP talks: apart from occasional leaked copies, the negotiating documents are largely kept secret. But there is no doubt that IP, and particularly copyright, is controversial. The US administration insists that it is only trying to extend principles that already exist in American law, trading off incentives for producers with access for users. “It is important to make clear that we are looking for a balanced copyright ecosystem,” a US official says. Even that is too much for some. The US, under continual lobbying from the entertainment industries, has relatively stringent laws on copyright. Its Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998 placed more onus on online service providers such as YouTube or eBay to take down copyrighted material, shielding them from liability for posting unlicensed photos or video only if they followed a precise set of rules. It also criminalised attempts to circumvent the digital locks used to protect against copyright infringement, such as “jailbreaking” cellphones to allow them to run unapproved applications. The provisions in US law for “fair use” of copyrighted material – for example for teaching or research – are relatively tight. Debates over intellectual property rights, free speech and the internet are hardly new or exclusive to international trade pacts. Earlier this year the US Congress staged a fierce argument over two proposed bills – the Stop Online Piracy Act (Sopa) and the Protect IP Act (Pipa). According to their opponents, the bills sought to turn search engines and media sites into IP police by preventing them doing business with, linking to or providing internet service for websites selling pirated material. To continue reading, click here Susan Aaronson, professor of international affairs at George Washington University, says: “The US has a limited idea of fair use, which we largely delegate to companies. This is not how it is done in other countries.” While lower-income nations in the TPP, such as Vietnam, often have straightforward rule-of-law IP problems like counterfeiting, even TPP members with more advanced economies, such as Chile, would have to make sweeping changes under the US proposals. . . . Chile, which last rewrote its copyright law in 2010, has relatively strong protection for internet service providers and users against action for copyright infringement, and would prefer that the TPP simply reaffirm existing treaties such as Trips. Instead, the US has pressed Chile to tighten its rules, placing it on its “priority watch list” for IP violations along with nations such as Russia, China and Venezuela, and pushed the issue hard in TPP. Leaked negotiating documents have shown the TPP countries far apart on copyright, with Chile’s resistance to US pressure shared by others including New Zealand, Malaysia and Vietnam. Reports suggest Chilean officials have mused publicly about whether it is worth participating in the TPP, given that its exports already have good access to the US market through a bilateral trade deal. Even those who broadly support the US IP regime say the Obama administration’s negotiating strategy risks exporting an unbalanced version. In the US, so-called “limitations and exceptions” to copyright have been carved out through case law and administrative decision, with powerful internet and telecoms companies acting as a counterweight to the entertainment lobby (see sidebar). The Librarian of Congress, for example, has exercised a right to issue temporary exemptions from the digital lock circumvention rules for certain types of material, such as DVD clips used for university teaching. Matthew Schruers, vice-president for law and policy at the Computer & Communications Industry Association (CCIA), is concerned that the countervailing forces in the domestic debate have less sway in trade talks. “The US gives lip service to limitations but they tend to be optional, whereas the obligations are compulsory,” he says. “If you only export half a law, you can expect a bad reaction.” The US administration says it has taken such concerns into account, though it took a long time to articulate them. This July, more than two years into the talks, the US trade representative’s office (USTR) publicly released the outlines of a proposal to enshrine limitations and exceptions to copyright law in the TPP. Campaigners were instantly suspicious, not least because actual texts, as ever, remained confidential. “This proposal could actually make things worse by subjecting existing exceptions to a new and restrictive test,” says Carolina Rossini of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, an internet rights campaign group. US officials say such concerns are unwarranted and that they have no intention of changing the rules governing so-called “small exceptions” in international treaties. These protect copyrighted material in quotations, news reporting and teaching. USTR also defends its secrecy policy, saying it has conducted “unprecedented outreach ... while maintaining a level of confidentiality necessary to preserve the strategic ability of US negotiators to strike a strong agreement”. Yet the precise details of the talks remain largely closed from the public, stoking suspicion about the version of IP law that the US is trying to foist on its trading partners. Moreover, whatever the original intent of the negotiators, the experience of IP in past trade agreements counsels caution. Australia, another TPP country, has discovered how IP rules in international pacts can turn a domestic policy area of cherished sovereignty like public health into an unexpected battleground. Last year Australia passed a law requiring all cigarettes to be sold in plain olive-green packaging to discourage smoking. Canberra has been embroiled in legal fights with the global tobacco lobby ever since, cigarette manufacturers claiming the action violates IP rights by assaulting the value of their trademarks. Last month Australia’s high court dismissed a constitutional challenge on those grounds by manufacturers. But Canberra still faces litigation in international forums. Ukraine, Honduras and the Dominican Republic have started cases against Australia at the WTO, arguing that the plain-packaging rules break the Trips agreement. Philip Morris, like other tobacco companies, is working with the Dominican Republic on its case, including covering some of the governments’ legal costs, as is common practice in WTO litigation. The company has also aroused particular irritation in Australia by bringing a separate claim of unfair expropriation using the “investor-state” litigation mechanism, which allows a company to sue a government directly, in an Australian bilateral investment treaty with Hong Kong. Philip Morris shifted its holdings from Australia to Hong Kong shortly before launching the case to give it legal standing under the treaty – raising concerns that foreign companies have more rights in Australia than domestic businesses. Philip Morris defends both that manoeuvre – which predated the introduction of the plain packaging bill, though not the government’s promise to legislate – and the substance of the complaint. “This is an IP issue because nobody has produced any credible evidence to demonstrate that plain packaging would benefit public health,” the company says. Australia’s government, in a sharp break with the country’s tradition – and to the concern of Australian companies operating abroad – now says it will refuse to sign future treaties with investor-state provisions, and has demanded an exemption from a proposed such mechanism in the TPP. . . . Whether the WTO and investment treaty litigation against Australia will succeed is unclear. Refusing to allow tobacco companies to use their branding is not the same as the government stealing trademarks by copying them for its own use. But the case underlines the potential for IP rules in trade deals to arouse fierce dissent. Luke Nottage, a law professor at Sydney University, argues that the Australian government’s decision is an overreaction, and says that it could simply rewrite investment treaties to exclude IP assets. But he notes: “IP is an area where national interests are strong and often in conflict ... it is overtaking other issues like services agreements in its ability to create controversy.” As the global economy shifts online and more of its value-added comes from research and design rather than fields and factories, few doubt the need for rules allowing the creators of valuable content to be properly rewarded. But acceptance and adoption of those laws may depend on their flexibility over time and between different countries. For now, a widespread suspicion remains that such rules are mainly being written by their beneficiaries. -- -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Tue Sep 25 04:01:23 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 11:01:23 +0300 Subject: [governance] Kim Dotcom: New Zealand to investigate unlawful spying In-Reply-To: <992ff2ab60602080e5dca390a3a8ff28.squirrel@ict-pulse.com> References: <50604AB4.9080907@gmail.com> <992ff2ab60602080e5dca390a3a8ff28.squirrel@ict-pulse.com> Message-ID: <506164D3.3020004@gmail.com> Agree with you. Of course we would be less than disinterested if we underestimated the non-formal persuasion evident in many issues related to US interests, especially when countries ride rough shod over their own laws... or where (like in finance or telecoms spying) the US does so to its own laws... On 2012/09/24 09:12 PM, mmarius at ict-pulse.com wrote: > This inquiry is not surprising, all things considered. > > Looking back on the arrest of Kim Dotcom - and not taking anything away > from the myrid of allegations against him and Megaupload - the arrest and > efforts to extradite him appeared a bit over-zealous, especially on the > part of the NZ police... > > Having said this, many countries can be intimidated when the US comes > a-knocking, but it incumbent for those countries to do their own due > diligence to ensure that due process according to their legal system are > followed... > > > Regards, > > Michele Marius > > > Blog: http://www.ict-pulse.com > Twitter: @ictpulse > Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ICTPulse > LinkedIn: http://jm.linkedin.com/in/mariusms > =============== >> Kim Dotcom: New Zealand to investigate unlawful spying >> >> PM orders inquiry into actions of government agents in lead-up to arrest >> of Megaupload founder, who is fighting US extradition >> >> >> * >> Reuters in Wellington >> * guardian.co.uk , Monday 24 September >> 2012 09.57 BST >> >> Megaupload founder Dotcom at court in Wellington >> Megaupload founder Kim Dotcom outside the New Zealand court of appeals >> in Wellington. Photograph: Mark Coote/Reuters >> >> New Zealand 's prime >> minister, John Key, has launched a inquiry into "unlawful" spying by >> government agents leading to the arrest of Megaupload >> founder Kim Dotcom >> , who is fighting >> extradition to the US where he faces charges of internet >> piracy and breaking >> copyright laws. >> >> The investigation may deal another blow to the US case after a New >> Zealand court ruled in June that search warrants used in the raid on >> Dotcom's home earlier this year, requested by the FBI, were illegal. >> >> Key has asked the government's intelligence and security division to >> investigate "circumstances of unlawful interception of communications of >> certain individuals by the government communications security bureau", >> his office said in a statement on Monday. >> >> Key's spokesman would not comment on whether the "certain individuals" >> referred to Dotcom, his three colleagues also arrested and facing US >> charges, or all of them. >> >> "The bureau had acquired communications in some instances without >> statutory authority," Key's statement said. >> >> New Zealand authorities arrested Dotcom and his colleagues at his rented >> country estate near Auckland in January, confiscating computers and hard >> drives, works of art, and cars. >> >> The FBI accuses the flamboyant Dotcom, a 38-year-old German national >> also known as Kim Schmitz, of leading a group that netted $175m (£100m) >> since 2005 by copying and distributing music, films and other >> copyrighted content without authorisation. >> >> "I welcome the inquiry by [Key] into unlawful acts by the GCSB," Dotcom >> said on his Twitter account. >> >> Dotcom maintains that the Megaupload site was no more than an online >> storage facility, and has accused Hollywood of lobbying the US >> government to vilify him. >> >> The raid and evidence seizure has already been ruled illegal and a court >> has ruled that Dotcom should be allowed to see the evidence on which the >> extradition hearing will be based. >> >> US authorities have appealed against that ruling, and a decision is >> pending. >> >> > > > > -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Tue Sep 25 04:06:35 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 11:06:35 +0300 Subject: [governance] Can a Company Trademark the Colors On Its Website? Message-ID: <5061660B.8070904@gmail.com> Opinion | September 15, 2012 Can a Company Trademark the Colors On Its Website? http://www.brookings.edu/research/opinions/2012/09/15-trademark-villasenor?cid=em_alert Earlier this month, a federal appeals court ruled [PDF] that the contrasting red soles on shoes from designer Christian Louboutin are sufficiently distinctive to warrant trademark protection. The ruling adds an important chapter to the history of color trademarks, and has broad implications that go well beyond the fashion industry. To what extent, for example, might colors on web sites be eligible for trademark protection? A trademark is "a word, phrase, symbol, and/or design that identifies and distinguishes the source of the goods of one party from those of others." Examples of famous trademarks include the Nike swoosh symbol, the McDonald's Golden Arches, and the phrase "Intel Inside." In the landmark 1995 /Qualitex/ ruling involving the color of dry cleaning equipment, the Supreme Court held that U.S. trademark law as established under the 1940s-era Lanham Act "permits the registration of a trademark that consists, purely and simply, of a color." Color alone, wrote the Court, can at least sometimes "meet the basic legal requirements for use as a trademark. It can act as a symbol that distinguishes a firm's goods and identifies their source, without serving any other significant function." Mr. Louboutin started coloring shoe outsoles in the early 1990s, choosing red because he considered it "engaging, flirtatious, memorable and the color of passion ." Over the subsequent years, the red soles became a widely recognized identifier of the Louboutin brand. "When it comes to women's shoes made for style rather than walking," Reuters wrote in 2007, "Christian Louboutin footwear with their distinctive red soles lead the pack, according to a survey of wealthy American consumers." In 2008, the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office granted Louboutin a trademark [PDF] for a "lacquered red sole on footwear," and in 2011, when the company learned that Yves Saint Laurent was selling shoes with both a red sole and a monochrome red "upper," it filed a trademark infringement claim in a New York federal district court. After the court refused to grant an injunction against Yves Saint Laurent, Louboutin appealed. In a September 5 ruling that both Louboutin and Yves Saint Laurent described as a victory, the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit held [PDF] that Louboutin's lacquered red outsole is "a distinctive symbol that qualifies for trademark protection," but only when contrasted with a different color used for the other visible portions of the shoe. In other words, Yves Saint Laurent's monochrome red shoes walk free, and Louboutin's trademark survives, though with a narrower scope. What does this mean for the ability to trademark colors on web sites? Consider the thick, red, horizontal stripe at the top of CNN's web site . A person seeing a computer from the other side of a room who might not be able to read the print on the screen would nonetheless be likely to recognize that it was displaying a page from the cnn.com domain. In the context of online news sites, CNN's red stripe placed across the top of the screen plays an important role in brand identification. But does it establish trademark rights? The answer turns, among other things, on whether the stripe's color and placement are distinctive (most likely, yes), whether its use by competitors would create customer confusion (quite possibly), and whether it steers clear of being functional (maybe). A product feature cannot serve as a trademark "if it is essential to the use or purpose of the article or if it affects the cost or quality of the article ." This functionality doctrine is intended to avoid granting trademarks that would give a single company control over a useful feature, and thus impede competition. Under some circumstances color can have an important functional role -- for instance, if it is used to identify the type of medication contained in a gelatin capsule. Preventing a generic drug maker from choosing the same capsule color as the brand name manufacturer could create confusion for both pharmacists and patients. More subtly and controversially, some courts -- including the Second Circuit that issued the Louboutin ruling -- have viewed product features that are "aesthetically functional" as ineligible for trademark protection. Even a feature that is not functional in the traditional sense can be aesthetically functional if allowing it to be trademarked "/significantly/ undermines competitors' ability to compete in the relevant market " [PDF]. It could be argued that CNN's red stripe is not functional in either the traditional utilitarian sense or aesthetically. After all, a competing news site barred from using it could choose to use a green stripe, or no stripe at all. But there is also a case to be made in favor of functionality: Unlike the sole of a shoe, which has a function tied to its non-color attributes, color in a web site can help visitors navigate the site. Another issue is the limited number of basic colors to choose from when designing a web site, and the limited number of basic shapes they can be used to fill. What would happen if there were no more colors left to trademark? In the 1995 /Qualitex/ ruling , the Supreme Court considered and rejected depletion as an argument against granting trademark protection for colors. At some point, the Court reasoned, color choices become functional and thus ineligible for protection. And, the Court wrote, when "a color serves as a mark, normally alternative colors will likely be available for similar use by others." That may have been true for dry cleaning equipment manufacturers in 1995, and for makers of fiberglass insulation in 1985 and outboard motor companies in 1994. But is it well matched to an era when almost every company has a web site, and in some industries, such as online news, or, for that matter, high end shoes and jewelry , there can be dozens or hundreds of competing companies? In this context, the assumptions of the /Qualitex/ Court regarding depletion may warrant reexamination. Lynne Beresford, who served as Commissioner for Trademarks at the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office from 2005 to 2010, thinks that the use of color on web sites might, under some circumstances, be eligible for trademark protection. However, she notes, she has "not seen any successful trademark applications for color-only marks where the company hasn't made a significant effort to alert the public about the trademark." In other words, merely using a distinctive green border on a web site almost certainly wouldn't be sufficient to obtain registration. A closely related additional issue concerns copyright. William & Mary law professor Laura Heymann has written that the line between trademark and copyright is "considerably blurrier" than at the other intellectual property law interfaces. She also observes that the importance of overlapping rights -- i.e., the possibility that a piece of creative content could have both copyright and trademark protection, is often underappreciated. Web sites and other online content (such as virtual worlds) will test the overlap between trademark and copyright in new and complex ways. The design of a company's web site, including the layout, colors, choice of fonts, and navigation among pages, is protected by copyright. The company's name and logo on that website are protected by trademark. The extent to which the use of color on the site can also fall within the scope of trademark protection is an issue likely to end up before the courts in the coming years. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From gurstein at gmail.com Tue Sep 25 04:52:20 2012 From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 09:52:20 +0100 Subject: [governance] Kim Dotcom: New Zealand to investigate unlawful spying+ICANN/L'Oreal+Copyright enforcement Message-ID: <06a901cd9afb$232e0620$698a1260$@gmail.com> Now if we combine the ICANN new TLD thread (a la Parminder), the Kim DotCom thread, and the copyright enforcement thread we are in true SciFi country where folks, say in the deepest depths of rural wherever, looking for example for words to describe a particularly fine example of show horse use the term "she's a ... beauty" as part of an online promo. Could they then expect a knock at 3 am with an armed swat team acting at the behest of the FBI in full black carapace and balaclava's ramming the door open to enforce L'Oreal's "ownership" of the the benighted term... (As folks jump in to point out the absurdiity of such a possibility I would very much appreciate the use of the policy and legal finesse shown in other related discussions applied to this one... M -----Original Message----- From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Riaz K Tayob Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 9:01 AM To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org Subject: Re: [governance] Kim Dotcom: New Zealand to investigate unlawful spying Agree with you. Of course we would be less than disinterested if we underestimated the non-formal persuasion evident in many issues related to US interests, especially when countries ride rough shod over their own laws... or where (like in finance or telecoms spying) the US does so to its own laws... On 2012/09/24 09:12 PM, mmarius at ict-pulse.com wrote: > This inquiry is not surprising, all things considered. > > Looking back on the arrest of Kim Dotcom - and not taking anything > away from the myrid of allegations against him and Megaupload - the > arrest and efforts to extradite him appeared a bit over-zealous, > especially on the part of the NZ police... > > Having said this, many countries can be intimidated when the US comes > a-knocking, but it incumbent for those countries to do their own due > diligence to ensure that due process according to their legal system > are followed... > > > Regards, > > Michele Marius > > > Blog: http://www.ict-pulse.com > Twitter: @ictpulse > Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ICTPulse > LinkedIn: http://jm.linkedin.com/in/mariusms > =============== >> Kim Dotcom: New Zealand to investigate unlawful spying >> >> PM orders inquiry into actions of government agents in lead-up to >> arrest of Megaupload founder, who is fighting US extradition >> >> >> * >> Reuters in Wellington >> * guardian.co.uk , Monday 24 September >> 2012 09.57 BST >> >> Megaupload founder Dotcom at court in Wellington Megaupload founder >> Kim Dotcom outside the New Zealand court of appeals in Wellington. >> Photograph: Mark Coote/Reuters >> >> New Zealand 's prime >> minister, John Key, has launched a inquiry into "unlawful" spying by >> government agents leading to the arrest of Megaupload >> founder Kim Dotcom >> , who is fighting >> extradition to the US where he faces charges of internet >> piracy and breaking >> copyright laws. >> >> The investigation may deal another blow to the US case after a New >> Zealand court ruled in June that search warrants used in the raid on >> Dotcom's home earlier this year, requested by the FBI, were illegal. >> >> Key has asked the government's intelligence and security division to >> investigate "circumstances of unlawful interception of communications >> of certain individuals by the government communications security >> bureau", his office said in a statement on Monday. >> >> Key's spokesman would not comment on whether the "certain individuals" >> referred to Dotcom, his three colleagues also arrested and facing US >> charges, or all of them. >> >> "The bureau had acquired communications in some instances without >> statutory authority," Key's statement said. >> >> New Zealand authorities arrested Dotcom and his colleagues at his >> rented country estate near Auckland in January, confiscating >> computers and hard drives, works of art, and cars. >> >> The FBI accuses the flamboyant Dotcom, a 38-year-old German national >> also known as Kim Schmitz, of leading a group that netted $175m >> (£100m) since 2005 by copying and distributing music, films and other >> copyrighted content without authorisation. >> >> "I welcome the inquiry by [Key] into unlawful acts by the GCSB," >> Dotcom said on his Twitter account. >> >> Dotcom maintains that the Megaupload site was no more than an online >> storage facility, and has accused Hollywood of lobbying the US >> government to vilify him. >> >> The raid and evidence seizure has already been ruled illegal and a >> court has ruled that Dotcom should be allowed to see the evidence on >> which the extradition hearing will be based. >> >> US authorities have appealed against that ruling, and a decision is >> pending. >> >> > > > > -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From info at freshmail.de Tue Sep 25 05:35:53 2012 From: info at freshmail.de (Matthias Pfeifer Freshmail) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 11:35:53 +0200 Subject: [governance] The EU cleanIT Project. References: <506089AD.3020007@itforchange.net> Message-ID: <157CB0B8BD264CAAA82678296049E949@stateless> Hello. There is an counter-terrorist project called cleanIT project. http://www.cleanitproject.eu/ A draft is available here: http://www.cleanitproject.eu/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/CLEAN-IT-DRAFT-DOCUMENT-066Pub.doc Does someone has additional information about the project? Matthias Pfeifer IT-Consulting -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From parminder at itforchange.net Tue Sep 25 05:41:24 2012 From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 15:11:24 +0530 Subject: [governance] implications of private TLDs In-Reply-To: References: <506089AD.3020007@itforchange.net> Message-ID: <50617C44.6020104@itforchange.net> Today 'The Hindu' carried its own editorial on this issue, simply titled 'No, ICANN'.... parminder http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/editorial/no-icann/article3932668.ece Return to frontpage Opinion » Editorial Published: September 25, 2012 01:02 IST | Updated: September 25, 2012 01:02 IST No, Icann The impending sanction of generic Top-Level Domains by the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers poses serious questions on equity and competition. The importance of domain names to digital commerce cannot be overstated, and the power of the .com or .net is well understood. What Icann proposes to do is to add several hundred gTLDs, starting next year, including those that encompass a wide range of activity in the creative arts, publishing, lifestyle and even community activities. Any entity that is assigned a domain becomes the equivalent of a landlord in cyberspace, with the ability to extract rent from other users. Such control may not pose problems where corporates such as Google are assigned domains that are specific to their companies or brands, .google or .android, for instance. But giving companies monopolistic control over generic words such as .book, .site, .news, .beauty or .app even through an auction process would distort the openness that characterises the Internet. A more equitable arrangement would be to keep such resources accessible in a non-discriminatory way. It is such a broad open culture pioneered by Tim Berners-Lee and others that aided the growth of the Internet in the first place, and not one that narrowly focused on profits. Internet gTLDs are affected by the digital divide, as the pattern of applications with Icann indicates. Most are from the developed world, and North America dominates; Africa is at a disadvantage due to the complexity and cost. Not many have the resources to pay the $ 185,000 fee for registration and the hardware and infrastructure necessary to run the domain. Even the concessional fee for public interest applicants in the ‘supported’ category remains too steep for most organisations. Governments in such countries could consider aiding national corporations, cities and public institutions to acquire the gTLDs that are of domestic concern. This can prevent monopolies. Equally important is the possibility of fraud. Unless Icann can credibly ascertain ownership of a top level domain, it could be hijacked and used to commit online fraud. Clearly, the more contentious issue is that of domains that are truly generic, such as .book. They require some anti-monopoly safeguards, such as a “no refusal” clause to be incorporated into the registration to protect the interests of all players in the field. In general, a set of predictable consequences for anti-competitive practices should be worth considering for inclusion. More so, since Icann has the stated objective of promoting competition in the gTLD scheme. Where there are credible objections to the distribution of important domain names, Icann would do well not to award them in haste. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 14000 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From nb at bollow.ch Tue Sep 25 06:05:02 2012 From: nb at bollow.ch (Norbert Bollow) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 12:05:02 +0200 Subject: [governance] The EU cleanIT Project. In-Reply-To: <157CB0B8BD264CAAA82678296049E949@stateless> References: <506089AD.3020007@itforchange.net> <157CB0B8BD264CAAA82678296049E949@stateless> Message-ID: <20120925120502.3008a57d@quill.bollow.ch> Matthias Pfeifer Freshmail wrote: > There is an counter-terrorist project called cleanIT project. > > http://www.cleanitproject.eu/ > > A draft is available here: > http://www.cleanitproject.eu/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/CLEAN-IT-DRAFT-DOCUMENT-066Pub.doc > > > Does someone has additional information about the project? If you read French, one of the vice-presidents of the Swiss Pirate Party has been participating in recent meetings and blogged about them: http://www.pascalgloor.ch/ There is other online information which however I am reluctant to recommend because it has a somewhat rabble-rousing slant (I agree with EDRi's general perspective but not with what I call the "rabble-rousing" style, even if it is probably significantly more effective than the style that I would use.) http://www.edri.org/cleanIT Since you have a .de email address, here are some links to German-language info with the same general style http://www.lawblog.de/index.php/archives/2012/09/24/cleanit-stellt-acta-in-den-schatten/ https://www.unwatched.org/20120921_CleanIT_Plaene_zur_Ueberwachung_des_Internets_im_grossen_Stil https://netzpolitik.org/2012/clean-it-die-eu-kommission-will-das-internet-uberwachen-und-filtern-ganz-ohne-gesetze/ Greetings, Norbert -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From pouzin at well.com Tue Sep 25 06:18:09 2012 From: pouzin at well.com (Louis Pouzin (well)) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 12:18:09 +0200 Subject: [governance] implications of private TLDs In-Reply-To: <50617C44.6020104@itforchange.net> References: <506089AD.3020007@itforchange.net> <50617C44.6020104@itforchange.net> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 11:41 AM, parminder wrote: > > Today 'The Hindu' carried its own editorial on this issue, simply titled > 'No, ICANN'.... > > parminder > > http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/editorial/no-icann/article3932668.ece > > - - - India's interest for new TLDs is indeed relatively minor, with regard to her population. Only 21 requests. Some strings tend to be quite generic: IDN, INDIANS, STAR, STATEBANK. How they will fare in the ICANN screening process, who knows ? IDN is doomed, as it's Indonesia's code in ISO 3166-1 alpha-3. Good luck. Louis. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From parminder at itforchange.net Tue Sep 25 06:30:01 2012 From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 16:00:01 +0530 Subject: [governance] implications of private TLDs In-Reply-To: References: <506089AD.3020007@itforchange.net> <50617C44.6020104@itforchange.net> Message-ID: <506187A9.1060903@itforchange.net> Dear Louis, Whether unfortunate or not, English is a major language in India... India may therefore be quite interested to prevent privatisation of English language words which then will be used as carriers of corporate painted culture into India...... In the new times, the principal means of global domination - economic, social and cultural, is threefold (1) Exporting culture, (2) (and then) seeking rent over using alien culture, (3) controlling the digital socio-technical infrastructure (Internet) as the means of both for exporting culture and extracting rent, and also as lever of coercive force employed across the world (as done by US-Microsoft recently in the 3322.org DNS takeover case) Therefore private TLD are a part of a much larger problem. parminder On Tuesday 25 September 2012 03:48 PM, Louis Pouzin (well) wrote: > On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 11:41 AM, parminder > wrote: > > > Today 'The Hindu' carried its own editorial on this issue, simply > titled 'No, ICANN'.... > > parminder > > http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/editorial/no-icann/article3932668.ece > > - - - > > India's interest for new TLDs is indeed relatively minor, with regard > to her population. Only 21 requests. Some strings tend to be quite > generic: IDN, INDIANS, STAR, STATEBANK. How they will fare in the > ICANN screening process, who knows ? > > IDN is doomed, as it's Indonesia's code in ISO 3166-1 alpha-3. > > Good luck. Louis. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From daniel at digsys.bg Tue Sep 25 06:54:23 2012 From: daniel at digsys.bg (Daniel Kalchev) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 13:54:23 +0300 Subject: [governance] implications of private TLDs In-Reply-To: <506187A9.1060903@itforchange.net> References: <506089AD.3020007@itforchange.net> <50617C44.6020104@itforchange.net> <506187A9.1060903@itforchange.net> Message-ID: <50618D5F.7000601@digsys.bg> On 25.09.12 13:30, parminder wrote: > > Therefore private TLD are a part of a much larger problem. > Greed, Incompetence, to name two. These are, by the way, spread all over the world. The good thing about Internet is that it provides more or less level playing field for everyone -- from the private person to the most "powerful" (in their pipe dreams) Corporation, or Government. Internet is different from other communication networks in that all intelligence resides at the end nodes. It has no central means of control -- of any kind. That Genie is out of the bottle. Daniel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From pouzin at well.com Tue Sep 25 06:54:31 2012 From: pouzin at well.com (Louis Pouzin (well)) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 12:54:31 +0200 Subject: [governance] implications of private TLDs In-Reply-To: <506187A9.1060903@itforchange.net> References: <506089AD.3020007@itforchange.net> <50617C44.6020104@itforchange.net> <506187A9.1060903@itforchange.net> Message-ID: Dear Parminder, I know, and I like your 1-2-3 points. They are both compact and well stated. Easily quotable. Congrats for your op-ed in The Hindu. Cheers, Louis. - - - On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 12:30 PM, parminder wrote: > > Dear Louis, > > Whether unfortunate or not, English is a major language in India... India > may therefore be quite interested to prevent privatisation of English > language words which then will be used as carriers of corporate painted > culture into India...... > > In the new times, the principal means of global domination - economic, > social and cultural, is threefold > > (1) Exporting culture, (2) (and then) seeking rent over using alien > culture, (3) controlling the digital socio-technical infrastructure > (Internet) as the means of both for exporting culture and extracting rent, > and also as lever of coercive force employed across the world (as done by > US-Microsoft recently in the 3322.org DNS takeover case) > > Therefore private TLD are a part of a much larger problem. > > parminder > > > > On Tuesday 25 September 2012 03:48 PM, Louis Pouzin (well) wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 11:41 AM, parminder wrote: > >> >> Today 'The Hindu' carried its own editorial on this issue, simply titled >> 'No, ICANN'.... >> >> parminder >> >> http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/editorial/no-icann/article3932668.ece >> >> - - - > > India's interest for new TLDs is indeed relatively minor, with regard to > her population. Only 21 requests. Some strings tend to be quite generic: > IDN, INDIANS, STAR, STATEBANK. How they will fare in the ICANN screening > process, who knows ? > > IDN is doomed, as it's Indonesia's code in ISO 3166-1 alpha-3. > > Good luck. Louis. > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From gpaque at gmail.com Tue Sep 25 10:37:50 2012 From: gpaque at gmail.com (Ginger Paque) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 09:37:50 -0500 Subject: [governance] =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fwd=3A_=5Balc-cmsi=5D_Transmisi=F3n_r?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?emota_de_la_V_Reuni=F3n_Preparatoria_del_Foro_de_Gobernanz?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?a_de_Internet?= In-Reply-To: <5061BD0E.2070509@colnodo.apc.org> References: <5061BD0E.2070509@colnodo.apc.org> Message-ID: The transmission for the LAC IGF 5 is now online. The transmission will show the speaker in the language used. However chat can be in English or Spanish, and your comments can be read into the meeting in either language. Cheers, Ginger ** Buenos días, Ya comenzó la transmisión del segundo día de la V Reunión Preparatoria del Foro de Gobernanza de Internet, siganos en Twitter #FGIColombia y http://www.ustream.tv/channel/fgicolombia Los esperamos, Julián -- Julian Casasbuenas G. Director Colnodo Diagonal 40A (Antigua Av. 39) No. 14-75, Bogota, Colombia Tel: 57-1-2324246, Cel. 57-315-3339099 Fax: 57-1-3380264 Twitter @jcasasbuenas www.colnodo.apc.org - Uso Estratégico de Internet para el Desarrollo Miembro de la Asociacion para el Progreso de las Comunicaciones -APC- www.apc.org _______________________________________________ Alc-cmsi mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/alc-cmsi To unsubscribe, email alc-cmsi-unsubscribe at wsis-cs.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From pouzin at well.com Tue Sep 25 11:36:56 2012 From: pouzin at well.com (Louis Pouzin (well)) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 17:36:56 +0200 Subject: [governance] 3322.org seized by Microsoft from Chinese DNS service provider In-Reply-To: References: <20120923110830.0038af8b@quill.bollow.ch> <505FFA29.1040807@digsys.bg> <20120924182922.42d2f72b@quill.bollow.ch> <20120924194358.5600c776@quill.bollow.ch> Message-ID: The story of *3322.org* seized by Microsoft will certainly be used over and again in international law discussions. A common reaction is that it was a good thing to do, and a bad precedent, due to obvious and dangerous potential for abuse. Even though the US DOJ could assert its legality, most States laws and international conventions would call it illegal. Nonetheless international cyberwar has already started, secretly and illegally with Stux, Flame and more. Then the time has come to draw some agreement about acceptable or illegal cyberwar. This dilemma is not new. In past centuries naval wars were operated by military and private vessels. The latter were called *privateer*, or *corsaire *in french. They had a *letter of marque *from their State, and if caught by the enemy, they were treated as war prisoners, instead of being hanged as pirates. This activity was risky, stricly regulated and rewarding for privateers and States. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privateer http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corsaire To some extent Microsoft acted as a privateer, but in a legal void. Wouldn't it be safer for all parties to work out a cyber-corsair (cybcor) statute ? Louis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From roland at internetpolicyagency.com Tue Sep 25 12:10:41 2012 From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 17:10:41 +0100 Subject: [governance] implications of private TLDs In-Reply-To: <506187A9.1060903@itforchange.net> References: <506089AD.3020007@itforchange.net> <50617C44.6020104@itforchange.net> <506187A9.1060903@itforchange.net> Message-ID: In message <506187A9.1060903 at itforchange.net>, at 16:00:01 on Tue, 25 Sep 2012, parminder writes >Whether unfortunate or not, English is a major language in India... >India may therefore be quite interested to prevent privatisation of >English language words Can you explain n simple terms why you think this is significantly worse at the top level than the second level? Arguably it's worse at the second level because it's often first come first served, rather than based on any particular merit. I can't use roland.perry.com[1], or roland.perry.eu[2], but I did once have roland.perry.name registered. Different naming models. [1]FCFS to an individual in the USA. [2]Registered to perrysport.nl, who aren't even using it. -- Roland Perry -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From anupamagrawal.in at gmail.com Tue Sep 25 21:54:49 2012 From: anupamagrawal.in at gmail.com (Anupam Agrawal) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 07:24:49 +0530 Subject: [governance] implications of private TLDs In-Reply-To: References: <506089AD.3020007@itforchange.net> <50617C44.6020104@itforchange.net> <506187A9.1060903@itforchange.net> Message-ID: <4E76FBD9-9A6E-42F9-9D7B-7689C8F82122@gmail.com> Hi Parminder I read your article. my observations: 1.The scare quotient is quite high and for a moment if i agree with what have you said then the road ahead is missing. If the purpose of the article was to scare only, then it's fine. 2. Every business in the world lands itself into a monopolistic situation if they have taken the lead into it. Going by that even the first printing press would have been in similar situation for some time. That's the motivation for any organisation to invest in innovation knowing that competition will catch up. Monopolistic scare is fine but I have not seen private sector monopoly lasting long enough. (State monopoly lasts longer but recent trends are also examples that they are not for ever). Regards Anupam Agrawal On 25-Sep-2012, at 4:24 PM, "Louis Pouzin (well)" wrote: > Dear Parminder, > > I know, and I like your 1-2-3 points. They are both compact and well stated. Easily quotable. > > Congrats for your op-ed in The Hindu. > > Cheers, Louis. > - - - > > On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 12:30 PM, parminder wrote: > > Dear Louis, > > Whether unfortunate or not, English is a major language in India... India may therefore be quite interested to prevent privatisation of English language words which then will be used as carriers of corporate painted culture into India...... > > In the new times, the principal means of global domination - economic, social and cultural, is threefold > > (1) Exporting culture, (2) (and then) seeking rent over using alien culture, (3) controlling the digital socio-technical infrastructure (Internet) as the means of both for exporting culture and extracting rent, and also as lever of coercive force employed across the world (as done by US-Microsoft recently in the 3322.org DNS takeover case) > > Therefore private TLD are a part of a much larger problem. > > parminder > > > > On Tuesday 25 September 2012 03:48 PM, Louis Pouzin (well) wrote: >> On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 11:41 AM, parminder wrote: >> >> Today 'The Hindu' carried its own editorial on this issue, simply titled 'No, ICANN'.... >> >> parminder >> >> http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/editorial/no-icann/article3932668.ece >> >> - - - >> >> India's interest for new TLDs is indeed relatively minor, with regard to her population. Only 21 requests. Some strings tend to be quite generic: IDN, INDIANS, STAR, STATEBANK. How they will fare in the ICANN screening process, who knows ? >> >> IDN is doomed, as it's Indonesia's code in ISO 3166-1 alpha-3. >> >> Good luck. Louis. >> > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From joy at apc.org Tue Sep 25 23:33:51 2012 From: joy at apc.org (joy) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 15:33:51 +1200 Subject: [governance] Kim Dotcom: New Zealand to investigate unlawful spying In-Reply-To: <50604AB4.9080907@gmail.com> References: <50604AB4.9080907@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5062779F.2000906@apc.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 here in New Zealand we are calling this the "dotcom sitcom" - honestly the entire saga has been one bad law enforcement and political decision after another, coupled with a government that seems willing to do anything to get a free trade deal with the US. See, for example, Jordan Carter's summary of what happened on copyright and ACTA last year: http://bit.ly/Pmchbp The local internet community is engaged in a variety of actions and strategies to try and use the case to highlight internet related issues, whatever the rights and wrongs of what megaupload was about. One thing is for sure: it ain't over ... Joy Liddicoat www.apc.org On 24/09/2012 11:57 p.m., Riaz K Tayob wrote: > > Kim Dotcom: New Zealand to investigate unlawful spying > > PM orders inquiry into actions of government agents in lead-up to > arrest of Megaupload founder, who is fighting US extradition > > > * Reuters in Wellington * guardian.co.uk > , Monday 24 September 2012 09.57 BST > > Megaupload founder Dotcom at court in Wellington Megaupload founder > Kim Dotcom outside the New Zealand court of appeals in Wellington. > Photograph: Mark Coote/Reuters > > New Zealand 's prime > minister, John Key, has launched a inquiry into "unlawful" spying > by government agents leading to the arrest of Megaupload > founder Kim > Dotcom , who is > fighting extradition to the US where he faces charges of internet > piracy and > breaking copyright laws. > > The investigation may deal another blow to the US case after a New > Zealand court ruled in June that search warrants used in the raid > on Dotcom's home earlier this year, requested by the FBI, were > illegal. > > Key has asked the government's intelligence and security division > to investigate "circumstances of unlawful interception of > communications of certain individuals by the government > communications security bureau", his office said in a statement on > Monday. > > Key's spokesman would not comment on whether the "certain > individuals" referred to Dotcom, his three colleagues also arrested > and facing US charges, or all of them. > > "The bureau had acquired communications in some instances without > statutory authority," Key's statement said. > > New Zealand authorities arrested Dotcom and his colleagues at his > rented country estate near Auckland in January, confiscating > computers and hard drives, works of art, and cars. > > The FBI accuses the flamboyant Dotcom, a 38-year-old German > national also known as Kim Schmitz, of leading a group that netted > $175m (£100m) since 2005 by copying and distributing music, films > and other copyrighted content without authorisation. > > "I welcome the inquiry by [Key] into unlawful acts by the GCSB," > Dotcom said on his Twitter account. > > Dotcom maintains that the Megaupload site was no more than an > online storage facility, and has accused Hollywood of lobbying the > US government to vilify him. > > The raid and evidence seizure has already been ruled illegal and a > court has ruled that Dotcom should be allowed to see the evidence > on which the extradition hearing will be based. > > US authorities have appealed against that ruling, and a decision is > pending. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJQYnefAAoJEA9zUGgfM+bqEDYIAKpa7FZ9AXMMmt3uLihny0zz V1+xyPcOVFnJSo5+oCCCucThOc5yRnH6ynZdrG5FD/AnaQDQ6iYKcXldOjPrCRI+ kXLi1+o27vAALHgQ3WCE4gK0pHtPh0+vdIASrD7Kr0zNtUQuJ+dA0/4CB8S3txQS YEMvBMVy1kLElNEGHgQ/56PaOJlugeoW/K7Nv+GxDy3hXHYJMLK+ExL9C3u9yp3l 6zFeZ5pz6UjN4O1OmKhDx62c7zcsk/nGV/hnTAusnSE8567uk4L4LB0kAs2QObbC dSYEDlmkXM20xXGTZufg/6R5YTh+zZC+bvFVjTi0L7EpReQs3CR0XMfWwpNMvUA= =Ztfc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From roland at internetpolicyagency.com Wed Sep 26 02:58:45 2012 From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 07:58:45 +0100 Subject: [governance] Another case of local laws affecting a global content supplier Message-ID: "A regional judge has ordered the arrest of Google's president in Brazil, Fabio Jose Silva Coelho, after the company failed to take down YouTube videos. Authorities say the videos are slanderous towards a candidate running in a city's election for mayor. The judge ordered the removal of the videos last week, but Google has refused to remove them and says it is appealing. It says it is not responsible for the content posted on its site. According to Brazilian media, the videos in question suggest Alcides Bernal - a mayoral candidate in the city of Campo Grande - is guilty of committing crimes. Judge Flavio Peren, who sits at a regional electoral court in Mato Grosso do Sul state, ruled the videos violated local election laws." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-19724403 -- Roland Perry -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Wed Sep 26 03:33:11 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 19:33:11 +1200 Subject: [governance] Another case of local laws affecting a global content supplier In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > > > The judge ordered the removal of the videos last week, but Google has > refused to remove them and says it is appealing. > > This is a fascinating case and one which the Courts in Brazil will view as "contempt". What is not known to me is whether Google had applied for a stay pending appeal as the report seems silent on the matter. I must say it is interesting to see the different treatments in Korea, Brazil etc. > It says it is not responsible for the content posted on its site. > > This makes a fascinating comparative exercise. 2012 seems to be the year of an avalanche of these sorts of cases. > According to Brazilian media, the videos in question suggest Alcides > Bernal - a mayoral candidate in the city of Campo Grande - is guilty of > committing crimes. > > I wonder if there are elements of truth which make it a defence in these sorts of tort or whether it was someone's idea of a prank. Judge Flavio Peren, who sits at a regional electoral court in Mato Grosso > do Sul state, ruled the videos violated local election laws." > > Be great if our friends from Brazil and there are many on this list could help give some perspective to the matter. > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/**world-latin-america-19724403 > -- > Roland Perry > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de Wed Sep 26 08:54:52 2012 From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang=22?=) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 14:54:52 +0200 Subject: [governance] WCIT - CS References: <506089AD.3020007@itforchange.net> <50617C44.6020104@itforchange.net> <506187A9.1060903@itforchange.net> <50618D5F.7000601@digsys.bg> Message-ID: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD375@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> http://www.itu.int/en/wcit-12/Documents/WCIT%20Briefing%20Session%20for%20Civil%20Society%20Stakeholders.pdf FYI w -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Wed Sep 26 09:59:38 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 16:59:38 +0300 Subject: [governance] implications of private TLDs In-Reply-To: <4E76FBD9-9A6E-42F9-9D7B-7689C8F82122@gmail.com> References: <506089AD.3020007@itforchange.net> <50617C44.6020104@itforchange.net> <506187A9.1060903@itforchange.net> <4E76FBD9-9A6E-42F9-9D7B-7689C8F82122@gmail.com> Message-ID: <50630A4A.5050508@gmail.com> On 2012/09/26 04:54 AM, Anupam Agrawal wrote: > Hi Parminder > > I read your article. my observations: > > 1.The scare quotient is quite high and for a moment if i agree with > what have you said then the road ahead is missing. If the purpose of > the article was to scare only, then it's fine. This simplifies matters. With trends in trademark law (colours, smells and even tastes on the wishlist) and the conflation with web addresses is perhaps worth being concerned about as it may affect future use possibilities. Even trade mark law has categories for use of names in particular sectors like George's steel and George's coffee... how are these conflicts to be handled if they arise GIVEN the (intended) trajectory and conflation? Is "private" rule making what is in the offing? If so (as it seems) then what implications does this have, are these even being considered? > 2. Every business in the world lands itself into a monopolistic > situation if they have taken the lead into it. Going by that even the > first printing press would have been in similar situation for some > time. That's the motivation for any organisation to invest in > innovation knowing that competition will catch up. Monopolistic scare > is fine but I have not seen private sector monopoly lasting long > enough. (State monopoly lasts longer but recent trends are also > examples that they are not for ever). I think that pure cases of monopoly (as is indicated in the award process of gTLDs and downstream regulation - or lack thereof) are a major concern. However the concerns need to be extended to oligopoly as well - which is a more prevalent form of dominant position than monopoly - which is capable of falling short of anti-trust provisions (like IBMMicrosoft "helping" keep Apple afloat so as to keep focus away from their dominance) thereby delivering the benefits of oligopoly (supernormal profits for R&D, investors, reinvestment, etc) as well obviating the need for anti-trust enforcement (Consumers may suffer)... > > > Regards > Anupam Agrawal > > On 25-Sep-2012, at 4:24 PM, "Louis Pouzin (well)" > wrote: > >> Dear Parminder, >> >> I know, and I like your 1-2-3 points. They are both compact and well >> stated. Easily quotable. >> >> Congrats for your op-ed in The Hindu. >> >> Cheers, Louis. >> - - - >> >> On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 12:30 PM, parminder >> > wrote: >> >> >> Dear Louis, >> >> Whether unfortunate or not, English is a major language in >> India... India may therefore be quite interested to prevent >> privatisation of English language words which then will be used >> as carriers of corporate painted culture into India...... >> >> In the new times, the principal means of global domination - >> economic, social and cultural, is threefold >> >> (1) Exporting culture, (2) (and then) seeking rent over using >> alien culture, (3) controlling the digital socio-technical >> infrastructure (Internet) as the means of both for exporting >> culture and extracting rent, and also as lever of coercive force >> employed across the world (as done by US-Microsoft recently in >> the 3322.org DNS takeover case) >> >> Therefore private TLD are a part of a much larger problem. >> >> parminder >> >> >> >> On Tuesday 25 September 2012 03:48 PM, Louis Pouzin (well) wrote: >>> On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 11:41 AM, parminder >>> > >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Today 'The Hindu' carried its own editorial on this issue, >>> simply titled 'No, ICANN'.... >>> >>> parminder >>> >>> http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/editorial/no-icann/article3932668.ece >>> >>> >>> - - - >>> >>> India's interest for new TLDs is indeed relatively minor, with >>> regard to her population. Only 21 requests. Some strings tend to >>> be quite generic: IDN, INDIANS, STAR, STATEBANK. How they will >>> fare in the ICANN screening process, who knows ? >>> >>> IDN is doomed, as it's Indonesia's code in ISO 3166-1 alpha-3. >>> >>> Good luck. Louis. >>> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ivarhartmann at gmail.com Wed Sep 26 10:20:21 2012 From: ivarhartmann at gmail.com (Ivar A. M. Hartmann) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 09:20:21 -0500 Subject: [governance] Another case of local laws affecting a global content supplier In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sala, the truth is that Brazil has been witnessing an avalanche of content removal orders for quite a few years now. This explains its position on Google's Content Removal ranking. The constitutional provision on free speech brings along a blanket ban on anonymity. The current constitution (1988) came after years of a military dictatorship and before that we never had a systematic and effective constitutional review system. The result is the lack of a culture of free speech. Prior restraint is rampant and content removal, as well as rulings awarding damages are based on highly subjective criteria such as violation of a person's "honor". For a more detailed description, have a look at the Brazil section of the newly released Freedom on the Net 2012 report - http://www.freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-net/2012/brazil Best, Ivar On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 2:33 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> The judge ordered the removal of the videos last week, but Google has >> refused to remove them and says it is appealing. >> >> This is a fascinating case and one which the Courts in Brazil will view > as "contempt". What is not known to me is whether Google had applied for a > stay pending appeal as the report seems silent on the matter. I must say it > is interesting to see the different treatments in Korea, Brazil etc. > > >> It says it is not responsible for the content posted on its site. >> >> This makes a fascinating comparative exercise. 2012 seems to be the year > of an avalanche of these sorts of cases. > > >> According to Brazilian media, the videos in question suggest Alcides >> Bernal - a mayoral candidate in the city of Campo Grande - is guilty of >> committing crimes. >> >> I wonder if there are elements of truth which make it a defence in these > sorts of tort or whether it was someone's idea of a prank. > > Judge Flavio Peren, who sits at a regional electoral court in Mato Grosso >> do Sul state, ruled the videos violated local election laws." >> >> Be great if our friends from Brazil and there are many on this list could > help give some perspective to the matter. > >> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/**world-latin-america-19724403 >> -- >> Roland Perry >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From vanda at uol.com.br Wed Sep 26 10:49:02 2012 From: vanda at uol.com.br (Vanda UOL) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 11:49:02 -0300 Subject: RES: [governance] Another case of local laws affecting a global content supplier In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <08d701cd9bf6$167ea0f0$437be2d0$@uol.com.br> Thank you Ivar. There is a lot of controversial arguments to support such decisions. Abraços, Vanda Scartezini De: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] Em nome de Ivar A. M. Hartmann Enviada em: quarta-feira, 26 de setembro de 2012 11:20 Para: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro Cc: Roland Perry Assunto: Re: [governance] Another case of local laws affecting a global content supplier Sala, the truth is that Brazil has been witnessing an avalanche of content removal orders for quite a few years now. This explains its position on Google's Content Removal ranking. The constitutional provision on free speech brings along a blanket ban on anonymity. The current constitution (1988) came after years of a military dictatorship and before that we never had a systematic and effective constitutional review system. The result is the lack of a culture of free speech. Prior restraint is rampant and content removal, as well as rulings awarding damages are based on highly subjective criteria such as violation of a person's "honor". For a more detailed description, have a look at the Brazil section of the newly released Freedom on the Net 2012 report - http://www.freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-net/2012/brazil Best, Ivar On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 2:33 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote: The judge ordered the removal of the videos last week, but Google has refused to remove them and says it is appealing. This is a fascinating case and one which the Courts in Brazil will view as "contempt". What is not known to me is whether Google had applied for a stay pending appeal as the report seems silent on the matter. I must say it is interesting to see the different treatments in Korea, Brazil etc. It says it is not responsible for the content posted on its site. This makes a fascinating comparative exercise. 2012 seems to be the year of an avalanche of these sorts of cases. According to Brazilian media, the videos in question suggest Alcides Bernal - a mayoral candidate in the city of Campo Grande - is guilty of committing crimes. I wonder if there are elements of truth which make it a defence in these sorts of tort or whether it was someone's idea of a prank. Judge Flavio Peren, who sits at a regional electoral court in Mato Grosso do Sul state, ruled the videos violated local election laws." Be great if our friends from Brazil and there are many on this list could help give some perspective to the matter. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-19724403 -- Roland Perry ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de Wed Sep 26 10:50:18 2012 From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang=22?=) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 16:50:18 +0200 Subject: [governance] WCIT Consultation References: <4ED5D5CBDF5F3E499DB990B095F010FE03DB15@wds-exc1.okna.nominet.org.uk> <1AA2879AC369F34EA9BE28245DD62B5E4EE3A262@TUCHM01.TUECSP.UNICC.ORG> <4ED5D5CBDF5F3E499DB990B095F010FE03E47F@wds-exc1.okna.nominet.org.uk> <1AA2879AC369F34EA9BE28245DD62B5E4EE3A4BB@TUCHM01.TUECSP.UNICC.ORG> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD379@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <1AA2879AC369F34EA9BE28245DD62B5E4EE3B3F3@TUCHM01.TUECSP.UNICC.ORG> Message-ID: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD37E@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> Hi Richard, once again thanks for arranging the CS WCIT consultation. However the majority of the members of CS, in particular members of the IG Caucus, will be unable to come just for 90 minutes consultation to Geneva. Do you plan to offer travel support or at least remote participation? This would be mostly welcome. Thanks wolfgang -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ivarhartmann at gmail.com Wed Sep 26 11:00:31 2012 From: ivarhartmann at gmail.com (Ivar A. M. Hartmann) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 10:00:31 -0500 Subject: [governance] WCIT Consultation In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD37E@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> References: <4ED5D5CBDF5F3E499DB990B095F010FE03DB15@wds-exc1.okna.nominet.org.uk> <1AA2879AC369F34EA9BE28245DD62B5E4EE3A262@TUCHM01.TUECSP.UNICC.ORG> <4ED5D5CBDF5F3E499DB990B095F010FE03E47F@wds-exc1.okna.nominet.org.uk> <1AA2879AC369F34EA9BE28245DD62B5E4EE3A4BB@TUCHM01.TUECSP.UNICC.ORG> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD379@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <1AA2879AC369F34EA9BE28245DD62B5E4EE3B3F3@TUCHM01.TUECSP.UNICC.ORG> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD37E@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> Message-ID: There will be many CS observers in Dubai. Maybe a similar session could be held there, in addition to the one in October. Best, Ivar On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 9:50 AM, "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" < wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de> wrote: > Hi Richard, > > once again thanks for arranging the CS WCIT consultation. However the > majority of the members of CS, in particular members of the IG Caucus, will > be unable to come just for 90 minutes consultation to Geneva. Do you plan > to offer travel support or at least remote participation? This would be > mostly welcome. > > Thanks > > wolfgang > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de Wed Sep 26 11:29:31 2012 From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang=22?=) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 17:29:31 +0200 Subject: [governance] WG: WCIT Consultation References: <4ED5D5CBDF5F3E499DB990B095F010FE03DB15@wds-exc1.okna.nominet.org.uk> <1AA2879AC369F34EA9BE28245DD62B5E4EE3A262@TUCHM01.TUECSP.UNICC.ORG> <4ED5D5CBDF5F3E499DB990B095F010FE03E47F@wds-exc1.okna.nominet.org.uk> <1AA2879AC369F34EA9BE28245DD62B5E4EE3A4BB@TUCHM01.TUECSP.UNICC.ORG> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD379@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <1AA2879AC369F34EA9BE28245DD62B5E4EE3B3F3@TUCHM01.TUECSP.UNICC.ORG> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD37E@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <1AA2879AC369F34EA9BE28245DD62B5E4EE3B541@TUCHM01.TUECSP.UNICC.ORG> Message-ID: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD380@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> ________________________________ Von: Hill, Richard [mailto:richard.hill at itu.int] Gesendet: Mi 26.09.2012 17:26 An: Kleinwächter, Wolfgang; governance at lists.igcaucus.org Betreff: RE: WCIT Consultation Remote participation is available on request for this event, see the invitation letter at: http://www.itu.int/en/wcit-12/Documents/WCIT%20Briefing%20Session%20for%20Civil%20Society%20Stakeholders.pdf Best, Richard ----------------------------------- Richard Hill Counsellor, ITU-T SG2 and SG3, and CWG-WCIT International Telecommunication Union Place des Nations CH-1211 Geneva 20 Switzerland tel +41 22 730 5887 FAX +41 22 730 5853 E-Mail: richard.hill at itu.int > -----Original Message----- > From: "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" > [mailto:wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de] > Sent: Wednesday, 26 September, 2012 16:50 > To: Hill, Richard; governance at lists.igcaucus.org > Subject: WCIT Consultation > > Hi Richard, > > once again thanks for arranging the CS WCIT consultation. However the > majority of the members of CS, in particular members of the IG Caucus, > will be unable to come just for 90 minutes consultation to Geneva. Do > you plan to offer travel support or at least remote participation? This > would be mostly welcome. > > Thanks > > wolfgang -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de Wed Sep 26 11:30:13 2012 From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang=22?=) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 17:30:13 +0200 Subject: [governance] WG: WCIT Consultation References: <4ED5D5CBDF5F3E499DB990B095F010FE03DB15@wds-exc1.okna.nominet.org.uk> <1AA2879AC369F34EA9BE28245DD62B5E4EE3A262@TUCHM01.TUECSP.UNICC.ORG> <4ED5D5CBDF5F3E499DB990B095F010FE03E47F@wds-exc1.okna.nominet.org.uk> <1AA2879AC369F34EA9BE28245DD62B5E4EE3A4BB@TUCHM01.TUECSP.UNICC.ORG> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD379@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <1AA2879AC369F34EA9BE28245DD62B5E4EE3B3F3@TUCHM01.TUECSP.UNICC.ORG> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD37E@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <1AA2879AC369F34EA9BE28245DD62B5E4EE3B541@TUCHM01.TUECSP.UNICC.ORG> Message-ID: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD381@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> ________________________________ Von: Hill, Richard [mailto:richard.hill at itu.int] Gesendet: Mi 26.09.2012 17:26 An: Kleinwächter, Wolfgang; governance at lists.igcaucus.org Betreff: RE: WCIT Consultation Remote participation is available on request for this event, see the invitation letter at: http://www.itu.int/en/wcit-12/Documents/WCIT%20Briefing%20Session%20for%20Civil%20Society%20Stakeholders.pdf Best, Richard ----------------------------------- Richard Hill Counsellor, ITU-T SG2 and SG3, and CWG-WCIT International Telecommunication Union Place des Nations CH-1211 Geneva 20 Switzerland tel +41 22 730 5887 FAX +41 22 730 5853 E-Mail: richard.hill at itu.int > -----Original Message----- > From: "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" > [mailto:wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de] > Sent: Wednesday, 26 September, 2012 16:50 > To: Hill, Richard; governance at lists.igcaucus.org > Subject: WCIT Consultation > > Hi Richard, > > once again thanks for arranging the CS WCIT consultation. However the > majority of the members of CS, in particular members of the IG Caucus, > will be unable to come just for 90 minutes consultation to Geneva. Do > you plan to offer travel support or at least remote participation? This > would be mostly welcome. > > Thanks > > wolfgang -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From toml at communisphere.com Wed Sep 26 12:16:31 2012 From: toml at communisphere.com (Thomas Lowenhaupt) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 12:16:31 -0400 Subject: [governance] The .nyc TLD's Community Advisory Board Message-ID: <50632A5F.2010705@communisphere.com> Since a New York City community board passed an Internet Empowerment Resolution calling for the development of the .nyc TLD as a public interest resource in April 2001, I've spent a good deal of my time advocating for its implementation. This past April the city of New York signed a contract with NeuStar to market and operate .nyc as a "geo" TLD. The city is expecting to negotiate a complementary contract with ICANN soon. To date, public input in New York's TLD policy development has been negligible, and thus the ways it will serve public interest, hard to discern. A ray of hope for public engagement recently showed itself in the city's updated Digital Roadmap , where it states: "...the City of New York will establish a community advisory board and convene public listening sessions to encourage meaningful input into the development of the .nyc strategy." The Community Advisory Board (CAB) is in its nascent days with planning for membership, duties, process, and outcomes just beginning. While the NeuStar's contract significantly limits options, I'm gathering recommendations for public engagement in planning and oversight of New York City's TLD through the CAB and listening sessions. These will be shared with the administration, the city council (which has indicated an intention to hold public hearings), and others. Here are my initial thoughts: * Membership -- Meeting the political and cultural traditions of the city, CAB membership should come from government technology and planning agencies, community boards, civic organizations, local businesses, and schools. Expertise should be represented by anthropologists, economists, information architects, media, technologists, and sociologists. CAB members should be appointed by the office of the mayor and city council. A salaried executive director, with a tie-breaker only vote, should be amember. For informational purposes, multistakeholderism as practiced in Internet fora will be described. * Duties -- The Internet is not mentioned in the 1987 city charter, but developments of similar scope must go through a Uniform Land Use Review Process. ULURP requires that plans having a significant impact be reviewed by Community Boards in affected communities. The CAB should be required to hear from all sections of the city - each of the 59 community boards or blocks of them as determined by the boards in consultation with the elected Borough Presidents. Outreach efforts should "seed" policy questions to facilitate public engagement into the issues. Online participation should be enabled through wikis and forums. * Process -- An executive director should be appointed by the CAB with responsibilities to organize the public listening sessions and create digital access capacity, e.g., wiki, discussion lists. The director should consolidate the face to face community and digital input and present it for review to the city's lawmakers. * Outcomes -- When not strictly in opposition to the NeuStar contract, recommendations of the CAB are to be amended to the agreement, and monitored on an ongoing basis by CAB. Recommendations outside the scope of the extant contact should be brought to the contractor for consideration and possible inclusion at renewal of the 5 year contract. Thoughts from fellow IGC list members will be greatly appreciated. Best, Tom Lowenhaupt P.S. A recent post entitled The 2013 City Elections and .nyc relates tot his and might be of interest. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ecology2001 at gmail.com Wed Sep 26 12:17:05 2012 From: ecology2001 at gmail.com (Robert Pollard) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 12:17:05 -0400 Subject: [governance] =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?Donuts_Inc=2E=92s_major_play_for_ne?= =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?w_Web_domain_names_raises_eyebrows_-_The_Washington_Post?= Message-ID: http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/donuts-incs-major-play-for-new-web-domain-names-raises-eyebrows/2012/09/24/c8745362-f782-11e1-8398-0327ab83ab91_story.html A historic land rushis underway for vast new swaths of the Internet: Amazon has bid for control of all the Web addresses that end with “.book.” Google wants “.buy.” Allstate wants “.carinsurance.” But the single most aggressive bidder for lucrative new Web domains is a little-known investment group with an intriguing name: Donuts Inc. Its $57 million play for 307 new domains — more than Google, Amazon and Allstate combined— has prompted alarm among industry groups and Internet watchdogs. They warn that Donuts has close ties to a company with a well-documented history of providing services to spammers and other perpetrators of Internet abuses. Should Donuts come to control hundreds of new domains, including “.doctor,” “.financial” and “.school,” consumers could see a spike in online misbehavior, these critics warn. ... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From cveraq at gmail.com Wed Sep 26 14:34:56 2012 From: cveraq at gmail.com (Carlos Vera Quintana) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:34:56 -0500 Subject: [governance] Google's officer with detention order in brasil Message-ID: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com> www.lahora.com.ec/index.php/movil/noticia/1101398913/Justicia_electoral_mantiene_orden_de_prisión_contra_directivo_de_Google.html Descarga la aplicación oficial de Twitter aquí Enviado desde mi iPhone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Wed Sep 26 14:36:59 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 06:36:59 +1200 Subject: [governance] CALLS FOR PROPOSALS [ICT for democracy and freedom of expression] Message-ID: *Message Starts* * * CALLS FOR PROPOSALS http://www.sida.se/democracy-**initiative ICT for democracy and freedom of expression Published: Monday, September 10, 2012Changed: Thursday, September 20, 2012 Sida invites civic organisations and other relevant actors to apply for funding for initiatives where ICT is being used to support democracy and freedom of expression. The specific objective of this call is to provide support to initiatives and activities in which the Internet and new technologies are used to strengthen actors who work for democratisation and freedom of expression, mainly in challenging and repressive environments. This call for proposals refers to the Swedish Special Initiative for Democratisation and Freedom of Expression, to be implemented by Sida during the period 2012–2014. Only Full Project Applications should be submitted for evaluation. Applicants must use the Full Application Form and its annexes 1, 2, 3 and 4 . Also, it is most important to read the guidelines carefully, where information about how to submit the application is described in detail. (See green boxes to the right for all related documents). Deadline for submission of applications is October 18, 2012. Only applications for projects to be implemented starting year 2012 or 2013 and ending no later than 31 December 2014 will be considered. Questions not answered after having read the guidelines can be sent to democracy at sida.se. *Message Ends* -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Wed Sep 26 15:44:42 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 07:44:42 +1200 Subject: [governance] CTU WCIT Preparatory Invite and Registration In-Reply-To: <78C1FC535A337E4282E6906BBFFAFF9497E11C3313@gdcmiaexch01.cgct.net> References: <78C1FC535A337E4282E6906BBFFAFF9497E11C3313@gdcmiaexch01.cgct.net> Message-ID: Dear All, I would like to invite you all to the Caribbean Telecommunications Union WCIT preparatory meeting that will be held in Trinidad and Tobago. I am attaching your Invitations. There are some who will attend on-site, and others remotely. Remote participation is extremely welcome. The objective is to give people the opportunity to discuss diverse perspectives relating to WCIT. For more information, visit: http://www.ctu.int/ Thank you and kind regards, Sala ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Bevil Wooding Date: Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 4:35 PM Subject: CTU WCIT Preparatory Invite and Registration To: "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro (salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com)" < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> Find attached as discussed.**** ** ** ** ** BMW**** -----------------------------------**** Bevil M. Wooding**** *Chief Knowledge Officer* Congress WBN**** ** ** [M] +868 682-0627 ● [W]+868 663 5673 ● [F] +868 662 1750**** ** ** Ethical initiatives for Nations Development**** http://www.congresswbn.org**** ** ** ** ** -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Registration Form WCIT12.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 305155 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CTU WCIT Preparatory Invite FINAL 7Sept.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 233254 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Registration Form WCIT12.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 552639 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de Thu Sep 27 03:31:26 2012 From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang=22?=) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 09:31:26 +0200 Subject: [governance] Freedom House Annual Report 2012 References: <78C1FC535A337E4282E6906BBFFAFF9497E11C3313@gdcmiaexch01.cgct.net> Message-ID: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD38A@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> http://www.freedomhouse.org/sites/default/files/inline_images/FOTN%202012%20FINAL.pdf FYI wolfgang -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fulvio.frati at unimi.it Thu Sep 27 04:32:25 2012 From: fulvio.frati at unimi.it (Fulvio Frati) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 10:32:25 +0200 Subject: [governance] Springer Computing Special Issue: Models and Protocols for Digital Ecosystems - Call for Papers Message-ID: <00ec01cd9c8a$9f775430$de65fc90$@unimi.it> [Apologies if you receive multiple copies of this message] ************************************************************** Call for Papers Special Issue on Models and Protocols for Digital Ecosystems Springer Computing Journal http://www.springer.com/computer/journal/607 ************************************************************** Digital Ecosystems are an emerging paradigm capturing the behavior of large-scale collaborating communities on the global ICT infrastructure. Such behavior includes critical features like dynamicity of coalitions, different data access paradigms (including the ones known as “big data”), vulnerability to new types of attacks and support for innovative value generation and sharing. This special issue is open to researchers from both academia and industry working on the Digital Ecosystem paradigm. Topics of interest include: 1. Models for the design, verification, and validation of functional and non-functional features of ecosystem coalitions. 2. Protocols and interaction techniques suitable for large-scale ecosystem collaborations. 3. Design and access frameworks for ecosystem "big data" layers. 4. Value and revenue models for business ecosystems. Contributions are sought on novel theoretical approaches, as well as on practical experiences and experimental results regarding Digital Ecosystems. * Important Dates - December 15th, 2012: Paper Submission Deadline - January 15th, 2013: Paper Notification - February 28th, 2013: Submission of Revised Manuscript - March 30th, 2013: Final Decision - April 30th, 2013: Final Paper Due - Mid-2013: Tentative Publication Date * Guest Editors - Prof. Ernesto Damiani Università degli Studi di Milano, Italy Email: ernesto.damiani at unimi.it - Prof. Achim P. Karduck Hochschule Furtwangen, Germany Email: achim.karduck at hs-furtwangen.de - Prof. Moataz A. Ahmed King Fahd University of Petroleum and Minerals, Saudi Arabia Email: moataz at kfupm.edu.sa * Paper Submission Papers submitted to this special issue for possible publication must be original and must not be under consideration for publication in any other journal or conference. Previously published or accepted conference papers must contain at least 30% new material to be considered for the special issue. All papers are to be submitted directly to Editorial Manager (https://www.editorialmanager.com/comp/). All manuscripts must be prepared according to the journal publication guidelines that can also be found on the journal website (http://www.springer.com/computer/journal/607). Papers will be reviewed following the journal standard review process. Please address inquiries to ernesto.damiani at unimi.it -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Thu Sep 27 04:04:08 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 11:04:08 +0300 Subject: [governance] Assange v Obama at the UN In-Reply-To: <5063DAB3.3020206@mail.ngo.za> References: <5063DAB3.3020206@mail.ngo.za> Message-ID: <50640878.3070105@gmail.com> (The best use of time spent at the UN in my memory...) http://wikileaks.org/Transcript-of-Julian-Assange.html Transcript of Julian Assange Address to the UN Published: Thursday 27 September 3am BST Transcript of Julian Assange’s Address to the UN on Human Rights - given on Wednesday 26th September - Proofed from live speech Foreign Minister Patino, fellow delegates, ladies and gentlemen. I speak to you today as a free man, because despite having been detained for 659 days without charge, I am free in the most basic and important sense. I am free to speak my mind. This freedom exists because the nation of Ecuador has granted me political asylum and other nations have rallied to support its decision. And it is because of Article 19 of the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights that WikiLeaks is able to "receive and impart information... through any media, and any medium and regardless of frontiers". And it is because of Article 14.1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which enshrines the right to seek asylum from persecution, and the 1951 Refugee Convention and other conventions produced by the United Nations that I am able to be protected along with others from political persecution. It is thanks to the United Nations that I am able to exercise my inalienable right to seek protection from the arbitrary and excessive actions taken by governments against me and the staff and supporters of my organisation. It is because of the absolute prohibition on torture enshrined in customary international law and the UN Convention Against Torture that we stand firmly to denounce torture and war crimes, as an organisation, regardless of who the perpetrators are. I would like to thank the courtesy afforded to me by the Government of Ecuador in providing me with the space here today speak once again at the UN, in circumstances very different to my intervention in the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva. Almost two years ago today, I spoke there about our work uncovering the torture and killing of over 100,000 Iraqi citizens. But today I want to tell you an American story. I want to tell you the story of a young American soldier in Iraq. The soldier was born in Cresent Oaklahoma to a Welsh mother and US Navy father. His parents fell in love. His father was stationed at a US military base in Wales. The soldier showed early promise as a boy, winning top prize at science fairs 3 years in a row. He believed in the truth, and like all of us, hated hypocrisy. He believed in liberty and the right for all of us to pursue happiness. He believed in the values that founded an independent United States. He believed in Madison, he believed in Jefferson and he believed in Paine. Like many teenagers, he was unsure what to do with his life, but he knew he wanted to defend his country and he knew he wanted to learn about the world. He entered the US military and, like his father, trained as an intelligence analyst. In late 2009, aged 21, he was deployed to Iraq. There, it is alleged, he saw a US military that often did not follow the rule of law, and in fact, engaged in murder and supported political corruption. It is alleged, it was there, in Baghdad, in 2010 that he gave to WikiLeaks, and to the world, details that exposed the torture of Iraqis, the murder of journalists and the detailed records of over 120,000 civilian killings in Iraq and in Afghanistan. He is also alleged to have given WikiLeaks 251,000 US diplomatic cables, which then went on to help trigger the Arab Spring. This young soldier’s name is Bradley Manning. Allegedly betrayed by an informer, he was then imprisoned in Baghdad, imprisoned in Kuwait, and imprisoned in Virginia, where he was kept for 9 months in isolation and subject to severe abuse. The UN Special Rapporteur for Torture, Juan Mendez, investigated and formally found against the United States. Hillary Clinton’s spokesman resigned. Bradley Manning, science fair all-star, soldier and patriot was degraded, abused and psychologically tortured by his own government. He was charged with a death penalty offence. These things happened to him, as the US government tried to break him, to force him to testify against WikiLeaks and me. As of today Bradley Manning has been detained without trial for 856 days. The legal maximum in the US military is 120 days. The US administration is trying to erect a national regime of secrecy. A national regime of obfuscation. A regime where any government employee revealing sensitive information to a media organization can be sentenced to death, life imprisonment or for espionage and journalists from a media organization with them. We should not underestimate the scale of the investigation which has happened into WikiLeaks. I only wish I could say that Bradley Manning was the only victim of the situation. But the assault on WikiLeaks in relation to that matter and others has produced an investigation that Australian diplomats say is without precedent in its scale and nature. That the US government called a "whole of government investigation." Those government agencies identified so far as a matter of public record having been involved in this investigation include: the Department of Defense, Centcom, the Defence Intelligence Agency, the US Army Criminal Investigation Division, the United States Forces in Iraq, the First Army Division, The US Army Computer Crimes Investigative Unit, the CCIU, the Second Army Cyber-Command. And within those three separate intelligence investigations, the Department of Justice, most significantly, and its US Grand Jury in Alexandria Virginia, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, which now has, according to court testimony early this year produced a file of 42,135 pages into WikiLeaks, of which less than 8000 concern Bradley Manning. The Department of State, the Department of State’s Diplomatic Security Services. In addition we have been investigated by the Office of the Director General of National Intelligence, the ODNI, the Director of National Counterintelligence Executive, the Central Intelligence Agency, the House Oversight Committee, the National Security Staff Interagency Committee, and the PIAB - the President’s Intelligence Advisory Board. The Department of Justice spokesperson Dean Boyd confirmed in July 2012 that the Department of Justice investigation into WikiLeaks is ongoing. For all Barack Obama’s fine words yesterday, and there were many of them, fine words, it is his administration that boasts on his campaign website of criminalizing more speech that all previous US presidents combined. I am reminded of the phrase: "the audacity of hope." Who can say that the President of the United States is not audacious? Was it not audacity for the United States government to take credit for the last two years’ avalanche of progress? Was it not audacious to say, on Tuesday, that the "United States supported the forces of change" in the Arab Spring? Tunisian history did not begin in December 2010. And Mohammed Bouazizi did not set himself on fire so that Barack Obama could be reelected. His death was an emblem of the despair he had to endure under the Ben Ali regime. The world knew, after reading WikiLeaks publications, that the Ben Ali regime and its government had for long years enjoyed the indifference, if not the support, of the United States - in full knowledge of its excesses and its crimes. So it must come as a surprise to Tunisians that the United States supported the forces of change in their country. It must come as a surprise to the Egyptian teenagers who washed American teargas out of their eyes that the US administration supported change in Egypt. It must come as a surprise to those who heard Hillary Clinton insist that Mubarak’s regime was "stable," and when it was clear to everyone that it was not, that its hated intelligence chief, Sueilman, who we proved the US knew was a torturer, should take the realm. It must come as a surprise to all those Egyptians who heard Vice President Joseph Biden declare that Hosni Mubarak was a democrat and that Julian Assange was a high tech terrorist. It is disrespectful to the dead and incarcerated of the Bahrain uprising to claim that the United States "supported the forces of change." This is indeed audacity. Who can say that it is not audacious that the President - concerned to appear leaderly - looks back on this sea change - the people’s change - and calls it his own? But we can take heart here too, because it means that the White House has seen that this progress is inevitable. In this "season of progress" the president has seen which way the wind is blowing. And he must now pretend that it is his adminstration that made it blow. Very well. This is better than the alternative - to drift into irrelevance as the world moves on. We must be clear here. The United States is not the enemy. Its government is not uniform. In some cases good people in the United States supported the forces of change. And perhaps Barack Obama personally was one of them. But in others, and en masse, early on, it actively opposed them. This is a matter of historical record. And it is not fair and it is not appropriate for the President to distort that record for political gain, or for the sake of uttering fine words. Credit should be given where it is due, but it should be withheld where it is not. And as for the fine words. They are fine words. And we commend and agree with these fine words. We agree when President Obama said yesterday that people can resolve their differences peacefully. We agree that diplomacy can take the place of war. And we agree that this is an interdependent world, that all of us have a stake in. We agree that freedom and self-determination are not merely American or Western values, but universal values. And we agree with the President when he says that we must speak honestly if we are serious about these ideals. But fine words languish without commensurate actions. President Obama spoke out strongly in favour of the freedom of expression. "Those in power," he said, "have to resist the temptation to crack down on dissent." There are times for words and there are times for action. The time for words has run out. It is time for the US to cease its persecution of WikiLeaks, to cease its persecution of our people, and to cease its persecution of our alleged sources. It is time for President Obama do the right thing, and join the forces of change, not in fine words but in fine deeds. _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From parminder at itforchange.net Thu Sep 27 08:22:24 2012 From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 17:52:24 +0530 Subject: [governance] Assange v Obama at the UN In-Reply-To: <50640878.3070105@gmail.com> References: <5063DAB3.3020206@mail.ngo.za> <50640878.3070105@gmail.com> Message-ID: <50644500.3010403@itforchange.net> If the contest is between US's and UN's stewardship of the Internet (only to the extent that any minimal law giving and enforcing stewardship is absolutely necessary) one only needs to hear Assange's speech on who between the two has shown greater commitment to freedom of expression..... that one rallying cry that is employed by US apologists.... and here we do not even begin to speak that there are other rights beyond FoE, especially of economic and social variety where US would not be able to even fake any kind of honourable association..... On Thursday 27 September 2012 01:34 PM, Riaz K Tayob wrote: > > > (The best use of time spent at the UN in my memory...) > > http://wikileaks.org/Transcript-of-Julian-Assange.html > > Transcript of Julian Assange Address to the UN > > Published: Thursday 27 September 3am BST > > Transcript of Julian Assange’s Address to the UN on Human Rights - given > on Wednesday 26th September - Proofed from live speech > > Foreign Minister Patino, fellow delegates, ladies and gentlemen. > > I speak to you today as a free man, because despite having been detained > for 659 days without charge, I am free in the most basic and important > sense. I am free to speak my mind. > > This freedom exists because the nation of Ecuador has granted me > political asylum and other nations have rallied to support its decision. > > And it is because of Article 19 of the United Nations Universal > Declaration of Human Rights that WikiLeaks is able to "receive and > impart information... through any media, and any medium and regardless > of frontiers". And it is because of Article 14.1 of the Universal > Declaration of Human Rights which enshrines the right to seek asylum > from persecution, and the 1951 Refugee Convention and other conventions > produced by the United Nations that I am able to be protected along with > others from political persecution. > > It is thanks to the United Nations that I am able to exercise my > inalienable right to seek protection from the arbitrary and excessive > actions taken by governments against me and the staff and supporters of > my organisation. It is because of the absolute prohibition on torture > enshrined in customary international law and the UN Convention Against > Torture that we stand firmly to denounce torture and war crimes, as an > organisation, regardless of who the perpetrators are. > > I would like to thank the courtesy afforded to me by the Government of > Ecuador in providing me with the space here today speak once again at > the UN, in circumstances very different to my intervention in the > Universal Periodic Review in Geneva. > > Almost two years ago today, I spoke there about our work uncovering the > torture and killing of over 100,000 Iraqi citizens. > > But today I want to tell you an American story. > > I want to tell you the story of a young American soldier in Iraq. > > The soldier was born in Cresent Oaklahoma to a Welsh mother and US Navy > father. His parents fell in love. His father was stationed at a US > military base in Wales. > > The soldier showed early promise as a boy, winning top prize at science > fairs 3 years in a row. > > He believed in the truth, and like all of us, hated hypocrisy. > > He believed in liberty and the right for all of us to pursue happiness. > He believed in the values that founded an independent United States. He > believed in Madison, he believed in Jefferson and he believed in Paine. > Like many teenagers, he was unsure what to do with his life, but he knew > he wanted to defend his country and he knew he wanted to learn about the > world. He entered the US military and, like his father, trained as an > intelligence analyst. > > In late 2009, aged 21, he was deployed to Iraq. > > There, it is alleged, he saw a US military that often did not follow the > rule of law, and in fact, engaged in murder and supported political > corruption. > > It is alleged, it was there, in Baghdad, in 2010 that he gave to > WikiLeaks, and to the world, details that exposed the torture of Iraqis, > the murder of journalists and the detailed records of over 120,000 > civilian killings in Iraq and in Afghanistan. He is also alleged to have > given WikiLeaks 251,000 US diplomatic cables, which then went on to help > trigger the Arab Spring. This young soldier’s name is Bradley Manning. > > Allegedly betrayed by an informer, he was then imprisoned in Baghdad, > imprisoned in Kuwait, and imprisoned in Virginia, where he was kept for > 9 months in isolation and subject to severe abuse. The UN Special > Rapporteur for Torture, Juan Mendez, investigated and formally found > against the United States. > > Hillary Clinton’s spokesman resigned. Bradley Manning, science fair > all-star, soldier and patriot was degraded, abused and psychologically > tortured by his own government. He was charged with a death penalty > offence. These things happened to him, as the US government tried to > break him, to force him to testify against WikiLeaks and me. > > As of today Bradley Manning has been detained without trial for 856 days. > > The legal maximum in the US military is 120 days. > > The US administration is trying to erect a national regime of secrecy. A > national regime of obfuscation. > > A regime where any government employee revealing sensitive information > to a media organization can be sentenced to death, life imprisonment or > for espionage and journalists from a media organization with them. > > We should not underestimate the scale of the investigation which has > happened into WikiLeaks. I only wish I could say that Bradley Manning > was the only victim of the situation. But the assault on WikiLeaks in > relation to that matter and others has produced an investigation that > Australian diplomats say is without precedent in its scale and nature. > That the US government called a "whole of government investigation." > Those government agencies identified so far as a matter of public record > having been involved in this investigation include: the Department of > Defense, Centcom, the Defence Intelligence Agency, the US Army Criminal > Investigation Division, the United States Forces in Iraq, the First Army > Division, The US Army Computer Crimes Investigative Unit, the CCIU, the > Second Army Cyber-Command. And within those three separate intelligence > investigations, the Department of Justice, most significantly, and its > US Grand Jury in Alexandria Virginia, the Federal Bureau of > Investigation, which now has, according to court testimony early this > year produced a file of 42,135 pages into WikiLeaks, of which less than > 8000 concern Bradley Manning. The Department of State, the Department of > State’s Diplomatic Security Services. In addition we have been > investigated by the Office of the Director General of National > Intelligence, the ODNI, the Director of National Counterintelligence > Executive, the Central Intelligence Agency, the House Oversight > Committee, the National Security Staff Interagency Committee, and the > PIAB - the President’s Intelligence Advisory Board. > > The Department of Justice spokesperson Dean Boyd confirmed in July 2012 > that the Department of Justice investigation into WikiLeaks is ongoing. > > For all Barack Obama’s fine words yesterday, and there were many of > them, fine words, it is his administration that boasts on his campaign > website of criminalizing more speech that all previous US presidents > combined. > > I am reminded of the phrase: "the audacity of hope." > > Who can say that the President of the United States is not audacious? > > Was it not audacity for the United States government to take credit for > the last two years’ avalanche of progress? > > Was it not audacious to say, on Tuesday, that the "United States > supported the forces of change" in the Arab Spring? > > Tunisian history did not begin in December 2010. > > And Mohammed Bouazizi did not set himself on fire so that Barack Obama > could be reelected. > > His death was an emblem of the despair he had to endure under the Ben > Ali regime. > > The world knew, after reading WikiLeaks publications, that the Ben Ali > regime and its government had for long years enjoyed the indifference, > if not the support, of the United States - in full knowledge of its > excesses and its crimes. > > So it must come as a surprise to Tunisians that the United States > supported the forces of change in their country. > > It must come as a surprise to the Egyptian teenagers who washed American > teargas out of their eyes that the US administration supported change in > Egypt. > > It must come as a surprise to those who heard Hillary Clinton insist > that Mubarak’s regime was "stable," and when it was clear to everyone > that it was not, that its hated intelligence chief, Sueilman, who we > proved the US knew was a torturer, should take the realm. > > It must come as a surprise to all those Egyptians who heard Vice > President Joseph Biden declare that Hosni Mubarak was a democrat and > that Julian Assange was a high tech terrorist. > > It is disrespectful to the dead and incarcerated of the Bahrain uprising > to claim that the United States "supported the forces of change." > > This is indeed audacity. > > Who can say that it is not audacious that the President - concerned to > appear leaderly - looks back on this sea change - the people’s change - > and calls it his own? > > But we can take heart here too, because it means that the White House > has seen that this progress is inevitable. > > In this "season of progress" the president has seen which way the wind > is blowing. > > And he must now pretend that it is his adminstration that made it blow. > > Very well. This is better than the alternative - to drift into > irrelevance as the world moves on. > > We must be clear here. > > The United States is not the enemy. > > Its government is not uniform. In some cases good people in the United > States supported the forces of change. And perhaps Barack Obama > personally was one of them. > > But in others, and en masse, early on, it actively opposed them. > > This is a matter of historical record. > > And it is not fair and it is not appropriate for the President to > distort that record for political gain, or for the sake of uttering fine > words. > > Credit should be given where it is due, but it should be withheld where > it is not. > > And as for the fine words. > > They are fine words. > > And we commend and agree with these fine words. > > We agree when President Obama said yesterday that people can resolve > their differences peacefully. > > We agree that diplomacy can take the place of war. > > And we agree that this is an interdependent world, that all of us have a > stake in. > > We agree that freedom and self-determination are not merely American or > Western values, but universal values. > > And we agree with the President when he says that we must speak honestly > if we are serious about these ideals. > > But fine words languish without commensurate actions. > > President Obama spoke out strongly in favour of the freedom of > expression. > > "Those in power," he said, "have to resist the temptation to crack down > on dissent." > > There are times for words and there are times for action. The time for > words has run out. > > It is time for the US to cease its persecution of WikiLeaks, to cease > its persecution of our people, and to cease its persecution of our > alleged sources. > > It is time for President Obama do the right thing, and join the forces > of change, not in fine words but in fine deeds. > _______________________________________________ > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From dogwallah at gmail.com Thu Sep 27 09:18:39 2012 From: dogwallah at gmail.com (McTim) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 09:18:39 -0400 Subject: [governance] Assange v Obama at the UN In-Reply-To: <50644500.3010403@itforchange.net> References: <5063DAB3.3020206@mail.ngo.za> <50640878.3070105@gmail.com> <50644500.3010403@itforchange.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 8:22 AM, parminder wrote: > > If the contest is between US's and UN's stewardship of the Internet (only to > the extent that any minimal law giving and enforcing stewardship is > absolutely necessary) To what extent is a "law" giving and enforcing stewardship necessary? That seems to be a more central question. -- Cheers, McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From parminder at itforchange.net Thu Sep 27 09:41:27 2012 From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 19:11:27 +0530 Subject: [governance] Assange v Obama at the UN In-Reply-To: References: <5063DAB3.3020206@mail.ngo.za> <50640878.3070105@gmail.com> <50644500.3010403@itforchange.net> Message-ID: <50645787.7010201@itforchange.net> On Thursday 27 September 2012 06:48 PM, McTim wrote: > > To what extent is a "law" giving and enforcing stewardship necessary? > > That seems to be a more central question. I agree McTim, that itself is a central question..... and oft discussed here :) Some people just turn a blind eye to the amount of law that is right now given to and enforced over the Internet, and whose interests it serves... Instead of seeing this evident truth, other people who demand an equal right of participation in this law making are condemned as 'control minded'. This is a perception game that the powerful have till now largely won vis a vis the Internet. However, people's power has a way of asserting itself, and the situation may change. We work for that. parminder > > -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From mariliamaciel at gmail.com Thu Sep 27 11:28:57 2012 From: mariliamaciel at gmail.com (Marilia Maciel) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:28:57 -0300 Subject: [governance] Brazil: president of Google arrested - liability of intermediaries Message-ID: Good article from EFF that explains the most recent juridical absurd in Brazil: the arrest of the president of Google. Contradictory decisions concerning the liability of intermediaries are common place in our Judiciary. Let's hope Marco Civil is voted in Congress soon, despite the lobby against it by telcos, especially because of its net neutrality provision. These companies, which have managed to influence the government through the Ministry of Communications, have successfully postponed the examination of the Bill for after the election period. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/09/shooting-messenger-brazil Marília -- Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade FGV Direito Rio Center for Technology and Society Getulio Vargas Foundation Rio de Janeiro - Brazil -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ca at cafonso.ca Thu Sep 27 13:53:51 2012 From: ca at cafonso.ca (Carlos A. Afonso) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 14:53:51 -0300 Subject: [governance] Brazil: president of Google arrested - liability of intermediaries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <506492AF.40407@cafonso.ca> Let us make sure we understand what happened: 1 an Internet user posts a video on Youtube which is considered offensive by someone else (be this a politician or anyone else); 2 this someone else obtains from a judge an order for the host to remove the offensive content (fair enough, this is an electoral process, the someone else in the case is a candidate, and the tribunal is an electoral tribunal with the constitutional mission to ensure free and fair elections); 3 the host refuses to do so. This is precisely what happened. The real issue of free expression lies between [1] and [2]. If the host does not comply with [3], I think in most legislations in democratic countries the consequences would be the same. In nearly all press stories about the case, no one mentions (or is interested in knowing about) the originator of the supposedly offensive content versus the offended, and keep focusing just on [3]... frt rgds --c.a. On 09/27/2012 12:28 PM, Marilia Maciel wrote: > Good article from EFF that explains the most recent juridical absurd in > Brazil: the arrest of the president of Google. Contradictory decisions > concerning the liability of intermediaries are common place in our > Judiciary. Let's hope Marco Civil is voted in Congress soon, despite the > lobby against it by telcos, especially because of its net neutrality > provision. These companies, which have managed to influence the government > through the Ministry of Communications, have successfully postponed the > examination of the Bill for after the election period. > > https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/09/shooting-messenger-brazil > > Marília > -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From rebecca.mackinnon at gmail.com Thu Sep 27 14:41:22 2012 From: rebecca.mackinnon at gmail.com (Rebecca MacKinnon) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 14:41:22 -0400 Subject: [governance] Fwd: [rccpblist-l] New book highlights policy implications of Chinese participation in global governance In-Reply-To: <008201cd9c4e$0fb8e4d0$2f2aae70$@edu> References: <008201cd9c4e$0fb8e4d0$2f2aae70$@edu> Message-ID: While this is not directly related to Internet governance, it has indirect relevance. Best, Rebecca ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: RCCPB Date: Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 9:18 PM Subject: [rccpblist-l] New book highlights policy implications of Chinese participation in global governance To: rccpblist-l at list.indiana.edu *RCCPB Website* | *Unsubscribe*| *Reply to RCCPB* **** ** ** *[image: Facebook icon]* **** *Like* **** *[image: Twitter icon]* **** *Tweet* **** ** ** [image: https://i2.createsend1.com/ti/j/C9/C65/04D/002604/images/rccpblogo_large.222434.png] **** Publications**** •**** *New book highlights policy implications of Chinese participation in global governance <#13a054f43ac1d8c5_toc_item_0>***** ** ** Website View **** Download PDF **** ** ** RCCPB LINKS**** About the RCCPB Visit the RCCPB **** Support the RCCPB **** **** ** ** [image: https://i1.createsend1.com/ei/j/12/D7A/60A/csimport/ScreenShot2012-08-31at11.44.32PM.234505.png] **** ** ** *New book highlights policy implications of Chinese participation in global governance* ** ** [image: Policy Book]**** The Research Center for Chinese Politics & Business (RCCPB) and the International Centre for Trade and Sustainable Development (ICTSD) are proud to jointly issue a study that analyzes the policy implications of growing Chinese involvement in global governance. Edited by the RCCPB’s Scott Kennedy and the ICTSD’s Shuaihua Cheng, *From Rule Takers to Rule Makers presents* 12 commentaries on the growing participation of Chinese in several arenas: international trade, finance, climate change, labor, public health, and foreign aid. The short chapters (2,500-3,000) words distill research first presented as working papers in the RCCPB’s Initiative on China and Global Governance.**** Some important conclusions:**** • Many Chinese, both state and non-state actors, participate in global governance. Hence, we should talk of “Chinese” participation, plural, not “China’s” participation, singular.**** • Chinese are moving up the learning curve in many areas of global governance, though most rapidly in areas directly related to international trade.**** • Chinese participation has a decidedly “statist” feel, particularly at the multilateral level. Government actors are generally more active than non-state actors, and Chinese are more involved in state-based institutions than in non-state private governance institutions.**** • In some areas they are stubborn defenders of the status quo, and in others they promote limited reforms of the international system. In no area are Chinese radical anti-status quo participants.**** • Chinese influence still depends heavily on China’s “hard power” and less on “soft power.” Chinese are more influential, but not yet dominant leaders in any area of global governance.**** • Greater Chinese participation has in many areas led to the advancement of addressing global problems, but by simply being new, major participants so quickly, their involvement also has complicated both negotiations and implementation of agreements.**** • Chinese influence will likely continue to grow simply as Chinese gain more experience and become more deeply integrated into the world economy and society, but Chinese influence that contributes to addressing global problems may continue to be limited by two sets of factors: first, by *domestic factors* that hinder policy transparency, coordination across government departments, and activism and independence on non-state actors, both companies and non-governmental organizations; and second, by* international factors* that shape how the world’s current leading powers and international institutions engage Chinese participants.**** The full complement of working papers from the initiative are on the *RCCPB’s website* . A scholarly book on this subject will be published in *Routledge Press’s Series on Global Institutions* , and available in March 2013.**** The Initiative on China and Global Governance and publication of this book are generously supported by the Henry Luce Foundation and Indiana University.**** You're receiving this because you are subscribed to RCCPB email updates. If you are not on the RCCPB mailing list and would like to be, please send an email to rccpb at indiana.edu with "subscribe" in the subject.**** *Subscribe*| *Unsubscribe* **** US Office: Woodburn Hall 364 110 East Seventh Street Bloomington, IN 47405-7110 China Office: UIBE China Institute for WTO Studies 508 Yifu Research Building 10 Huixin Dongjie Chaoyang, Beijing 100029**** ** ** ** ** -- Rebecca MacKinnon Author, Consent of the Networked Co-founder, Global Voices Senior Fellow, New America Foundation Twitter: @rmack Office: +1-202-596-3343 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Chinese Rule Makers RED Sept 2012.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 2096273 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Thu Sep 27 16:05:13 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 08:05:13 +1200 Subject: [governance] Brazil: president of Google arrested - liability of intermediaries In-Reply-To: <506492AF.40407@cafonso.ca> References: <506492AF.40407@cafonso.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 5:53 AM, Carlos A. Afonso wrote: > Let us make sure we understand what happened: > > 1 an Internet user posts a video on Youtube which is considered offensive > by someone else (be this a politician or anyone else); > > 2 this someone else obtains from a judge an order for the host to remove > the offensive content (fair enough, this is an electoral process, the > someone else in the case is a candidate, and the tribunal is an electoral > tribunal with the constitutional mission to ensure free and fair elections); > > 3 the host refuses to do so. > > This is precisely what happened. > > The real issue of free expression lies between [1] and [2]. If the host > does not comply with [3], I think in most legislations in democratic > countries the consequences would be the same. > > In nearly all press stories about the case, no one mentions (or is > interested in knowing about) the originator of the supposedly offensive > content versus the offended, and keep focusing just on [3]... > The reality with Press or Media Reports, is that often the objective is to "sell" and they will choose angles which will get the most attention... Sensationalism versus assessing the facts towards balanced reporting... > > frt rgds > > --c.a. > > > On 09/27/2012 12:28 PM, Marilia Maciel wrote: > >> Good article from EFF that explains the most recent juridical absurd in >> Brazil: the arrest of the president of Google. Contradictory decisions >> concerning the liability of intermediaries are common place in our >> Judiciary. Let's hope Marco Civil is voted in Congress soon, despite the >> lobby against it by telcos, especially because of its net neutrality >> provision. These companies, which have managed to influence the government >> through the Ministry of Communications, have successfully postponed the >> examination of the Bill for after the election period. >> >> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/**2012/09/shooting-messenger-**brazil >> >> Marília >> >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From roland at internetpolicyagency.com Fri Sep 28 03:44:29 2012 From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 08:44:29 +0100 Subject: [governance] Another case of local laws affecting a global content supplier In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In message , at 07:58:45 on Wed, 26 Sep 2012, Roland Perry writes >"A regional judge has ordered the arrest of Google's president in >Brazil, Fabio Jose Silva Coelho, after the company failed to take down >YouTube videos. "The president of Google operations in Brazil, Fabio Jose Silva Coelho, has said the company will take down a controversial YouTube video that led to his brief detention on Wednesday. In a statement, Mr Coelho said he was left with no choice after losing a final legal appeal." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-19753158 -- Roland Perry -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From pranesh at cis-india.org Fri Sep 28 04:35:05 2012 From: pranesh at cis-india.org (Pranesh Prakash) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 14:05:05 +0530 Subject: [governance] Google's officer with detention order in brasil In-Reply-To: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com> References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com> Message-ID: <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org> Carlos Vera Quintana [2012-09-27 00:04]: > www.lahora.com.ec/index.php/movil/noticia/1101398913/Justicia_electoral_mantiene_orden_de_prisión_contra_directivo_de_Google.html Marcelo Thompson of University of HK / Oxford Internet Institute argues that the arrest is justified, and might even have been welcomed by Google: http://goo.gl/P47Yh -- Pranesh Prakash Policy Director Centre for Internet and Society T: +91 80 40926283 | W: http://cis-india.org PGP ID: 0x1D5C5F07 | Twitter: @pranesh_prakash -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 259 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fouadbajwa at gmail.com Fri Sep 28 08:36:19 2012 From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Bajwa) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 17:36:19 +0500 Subject: [governance] Political Reactions - Pakistani Mainstream Political Party Serves Google an objection and notice, various reactions Message-ID: Pakistan Movement for Justice PTI heads met with Google CEO a few weeks ago: http://insaf.pk/News/tabid/60/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/11787/PTI-team-meets-Google-chief-executive-Eric-Schmidt-in-Lahore.aspx Google has been sent a notice by a mainstream political party on the recent riots: PTI serves notice: http://www.insaf.pk/News/tabid/60/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/13240/Google-put-on-notice-by-PTI-to-remove-video.aspx The letter from PTI to Google: http://www.scribd.com/doc/106732695/PTI-Puts-Google-on-Notice-to-Remove-Blasphemous-Video Daily Tribune's Blog post: http://tribune.com.pk/story/441212/pti-puts-google-inc-on-notice-for-not-removing-anti-islam-film/ -- Regards. -------------------------- Fouad Bajwa ICT4D and Internet Governance Advisor My Blog: Internet's Governance: http://internetsgovernance.blogspot.com/ Follow my Tweets: http://twitter.com/fouadbajwa -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Fri Sep 28 03:54:08 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 10:54:08 +0300 Subject: [governance] US Business hires of former government employees as lobbyists In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <506557A0.3030905@gmail.com> MSG as cover for corporate domination? Snip: For example, 51 percent of the US Chamber, 65 perecent of PhRMA, 79 percent of Merck and Microsoft, 90 percent of Goldman Sachs and 94 percent of Vivendi lobbyists are former government employees. http://keionline.org/print/1555 Published on Knowledge Ecology International (http://keionline.org) Business hires of former government employees as lobbyists 27. September 2012 In Washington, DC there is a large and growing influence industry. One element of this industry is the thousands of people who register as lobbyists with the Congress. Because of the way disclosure rules are written, this is only a fraction of the persons who are actually employed to influence the Congress or the Executive Branch. For example, the members of the various USTR Advisory boards [2] are officially not considered registered lobbyists [3], even though they are actively seeking to influence government policies, and in many cases directly supervise registered lobbyists. People like Charlene Barshefsky, a former head of USTR under Clinton who now advocates [4] USTR demand tough intellectual property rules for biologic drugs in developing countries, or Pfizer Executive Vice President Sally Susman [5], who formerly worked for the U.S. Senate and the Department of Commerce and now supervises Pfizers lobbying efforts, don't bother to register as lobbyists. For those that do register, the Center for Responsive Politics (CRP) has created a database of the persons who work for the Congress or the Executive Branch, and then become lobbyists. http://www.opensecrets.org/revolving/index.php [6], which is available from their excellent web page, OpenSecrets.org [6]. What the CRP revolving door database shows is how extensive is the role of former government employees in running the lobbying operations for businesses. For example, 51 percent of the US Chamber, 65 perecent of PhRMA, 79 percent of Merck and Microsoft, 90 percent of Goldman Sachs and 94 percent of Vivendi lobbyists are former government employees. Not every industry or interest group has such a high percentage of former government officials on the payroll. For example, only 40 percent of the Generic Pharmaceutical Association and 35 percent of the America Medical Association are former government employees. It is also interesting to note that only 9 percent of the AFL-CIO lobbyists are former government officials. The role of former government officials as paid lobbyists and public affairs advisers is controversial, because the practice creates a culture that undermines the independence and objectivity of government agencies and the Congress, and creates powerful incentives for government officials to ignore the public interest while currying favor to private interests. Using the OpenSecrets database, let's take a look at how various trade associations and businesses stack up. Lobbyists in 2012 who have previously held government jobs* Pharmaceuticals - Trade Associations 95 out of 146 PhRMA lobbyists 58 out of 86 Biotechnology Industry Organization (BIO) lobbyists 4 out of 10 Generic Pharmaceutical Association lobbyists Pharmaceuticals - Companies 59 out of 79 Roche Holdings lobbyists 54 out of 74 Pfizer Inc lobbyists 45 out of 58 Eli Lilly & Co lobbyists 33 out of 56 Abbott Laboratories lobbyists 33 out of 42 Merck & Co lobbyists 32 out of 55 Novartis AG lobbyists 27 out of 49 Johnson & Johnson lobbyists 24 out of 35 GlaxoSmithKline lobbyists 19 out of 27 Sanofi lobbyists 14 out of 18 Bristol-Myers Squibb lobbyists 10 out of 16 Gilead Sciences lobbyists 10 out of 18 Teva Pharmaceutical Industries lobbyists Publishers - Trade Associations 48 out of 66 National Association of Broadcasters (NAB) lobbyists 27 out of 32 Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) lobbyists 24 out of 27 Motion Picture Associationof America (MPAA) lobbyists 06 out of 11 Business Software Alliance (BSA) lobbyists 03 out of 04 ASCAP lobbyists 01 out of 03 Association of American Publishers (AAP) lobbyists Publishers - Companies 37 out of 40 Time Warner lobbyists 20 out of 27 News Corp lobbyists 16 out of 17 Vivendi lobbyists 15 out of 18 Sony Corp lobbyists 08 out of 10 Walt Disney Co lobbyists 07 out of 11 McGraw-Hill Companies lobbyists 06 out of 07 Pearson Education lobbyists 02 out of 02 Washington Post lobbyists Computers, Software, Internet, eCommerce 84 out of 108 Google Inc lobbyists 57 out of 72 Microsoft Corp lobbyists 35 out of 41 eBay Inc lobbyists 32 out of 37 Hewlett-Packard lobbyists 28 out of 34 Cisco Systems lobbyists 26 out of 37 Oracle Corp lobbyists 20 out of 36 IBM Corp lobbyists 20 out of 33 Intel Corp lobbyists 19 out of 24 SAP AG lobbyists 19 out of 24 Qualcomm Inc lobbyists 19 out of 24 Apple Inc lobbyists 12 out of 14 Amazon.com lobbyists 09 out of 16 Dell Inc lobbyists Tecommunications - trade associations 70 out of 82 National Cable & Telecommunications Association(NCTA) lobbyists 48 out of 66 National Association of Broadcasters (NAB) lobbyists 01 out of 06 Computer & Communications Industry Association lobbyists Tecommunications - companies 95 out of 114 Comcast Corp lobbyists 89 out of 115 Verizon Communications lobbyists 54 out of 80 AT&T Inc lobbyists 34 out of 42 Time Warner Cable lobbyists 22 out of 26 CC Media Holdings (Clear Channel) lobbyists Banking and Finance - Associations 22 out of 41 Securities Industry & Financial Market Association lobbyists Banking, Insurance, Finance - Firms 44 out of 49 Goldman Sachs lobbyists 42 out of 60 Visa Inc lobbyists 40 out of 56 JPMorgan Chase & Co lobbyists 11 out of 15 Bank of America lobbyists 09 out of 17 AFLAC lobbyists General Business or Labor - Associations 84 out of 166 US Chamber of Commerce lobbyists 53 out of 60 Business Roundtable lobbyists 02 out of 22 AFL-CIO lobbyists Aviation, defense 71 out of 100 Boeing Co lobbyists 29 out of 43 Northrop Grumman lobbyists Energy 30 out of 43 Chevron lobbyists 20 out of 34 Exxon Mobil lobbyists Misc businesses 91 out of 129 General Electric lobbyists 35 out of 55 General Motors lobbyists Health Care (other than pharmaceuticals) 78 out of 126 Blue Cross/Blue Shield lobbyists 27 out of 70 American Hospital Association lobbyists 12 out of 34 American Medical Association lobbyists *Source: OpenSecrets.Org Source URL: http://keionline.org/node/1555 Links: [1] http://keionline.org/user/4 [2] http://www.ustr.gov/about-us/intergovernmental-affairs/advisory-committees [3] http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/210439-lobbyists-sue-obama-after-being-booted-from-boards [4] http://www.nature.com/news/trade-deal-to-curb-generic-drug-use-1.11345 [5] http://keionline.org/node/1390 [6] http://www.opensecrets.org/revolving/index.php -- -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Fri Sep 28 04:05:38 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 11:05:38 +0300 Subject: [governance] Assange v Obama at the UN In-Reply-To: <50645787.7010201@itforchange.net> References: <5063DAB3.3020206@mail.ngo.za> <50640878.3070105@gmail.com> <50644500.3010403@itforchange.net> <50645787.7010201@itforchange.net> Message-ID: <50655A52.2060907@gmail.com> Welll it seems that even Amnesty International has let facts catch up with them and pushes what I call a reasonable line on the prosecutions for sexual assualt... perhaps this may find favour with critics on this list, but perhaps not... http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/sep/27/assange-hague-ecuador-extradition-legal On 2012/09/27 04:41 PM, parminder wrote: > > On Thursday 27 September 2012 06:48 PM, McTim wrote: >> >> To what extent is a "law" giving and enforcing stewardship necessary? >> >> That seems to be a more central question. > > I agree McTim, that itself is a central question..... and oft > discussed here :) > > Some people just turn a blind eye to the amount of law that is right > now given to and enforced over the Internet, and whose interests it > serves... Instead of seeing this evident truth, other people who > demand an equal right of participation in this law making are > condemned as 'control minded'. This is a perception game that the > powerful have till now largely won vis a vis the Internet. However, > people's power has a way of asserting itself, and the situation may > change. We work for that. > > parminder >> >> > > -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From dogwallah at gmail.com Fri Sep 28 09:10:43 2012 From: dogwallah at gmail.com (McTim) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 09:10:43 -0400 Subject: [governance] Google's officer with detention order in brasil In-Reply-To: <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org> References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com> <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 4:35 AM, Pranesh Prakash wrote: > Carlos Vera Quintana [2012-09-27 00:04]: >> >> >> www.lahora.com.ec/index.php/movil/noticia/1101398913/Justicia_electoral_mantiene_orden_de_prisión_contra_directivo_de_Google.html > > > Marcelo Thompson of University of HK / Oxford Internet Institute argues that > the arrest is justified, and might even have been welcomed by Google: > > http://goo.gl/P47Yh A hyper-cynical POV. To a true cynic it reads like teaser to flog his book ;-) -- Cheers, McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ivarhartmann at gmail.com Fri Sep 28 09:35:26 2012 From: ivarhartmann at gmail.com (Ivar A. M. Hartmann) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 10:35:26 -0300 Subject: [governance] Google's officer with detention order in brasil In-Reply-To: References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com> <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org> Message-ID: For those overlooking the key issue in this and similar cases in Brazil, it is not whether Google wants to secure its holding as a market leader or ensure its profit. The key issue is free speech. Shifting the spotlight to Google's corporate interests is the same as stating that a critique of government restriction of the people's right to move freely is nothing but corporate lobby by automobile manufacturers. The fact that some private companies turn a profit from the enjoyment of certain human rights does not call for a simplistic view. Now let me just point something out: one of the main aspects of the human rights discourse in the last six decades has been the realization that following the law - rules that have been regularly enacted from a formal point of view - shouldn't be an excuse to violate human rights and dignity. This is what Nuremberg was all about. In other words, if a human rights violation is perfectly clear to civil society - as the restriction of free speech in Brazil currently is - then overlooking that fact and simply abiding by the law, regardless of what it says, is wrong. To be perfectly clear, the comparison I'm making is for argument's sake, as the rights violations in each case are obviously very different in degree and nature. But they are human rights violations all the same. I wonder if 5 years from now we'll look back and condone the actions of internet corporations that did absolutely nothing against free speech and privacy restrictions imposed by formally legal rules. Best, Ivar On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 10:10 AM, McTim wrote: > On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 4:35 AM, Pranesh Prakash > wrote: > > Carlos Vera Quintana [2012-09-27 00:04]: > >> > >> > >> > www.lahora.com.ec/index.php/movil/noticia/1101398913/Justicia_electoral_mantiene_orden_de_prisión_contra_directivo_de_Google.html > > > > > > Marcelo Thompson of University of HK / Oxford Internet Institute argues > that > > the arrest is justified, and might even have been welcomed by Google: > > > > http://goo.gl/P47Yh > > > A hyper-cynical POV. > > To a true cynic it reads like teaser to flog his book ;-) > > > > -- > Cheers, > > McTim > "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A > route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From dogwallah at gmail.com Fri Sep 28 10:18:52 2012 From: dogwallah at gmail.com (McTim) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 10:18:52 -0400 Subject: [governance] Google's officer with detention order in brasil In-Reply-To: References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com> <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org> Message-ID: Ivar, On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 9:35 AM, Ivar A. M. Hartmann wrote: > For those overlooking the key issue in this and similar cases in Brazil, it > is not whether Google wants to secure its holding as a market leader or > ensure its profit. The key issue is free speech. +1 -- Cheers, McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From roland at internetpolicyagency.com Fri Sep 28 10:33:05 2012 From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 15:33:05 +0100 Subject: [governance] US Business hires of former government employees as lobbyists In-Reply-To: <506557A0.3030905@gmail.com> References: <506557A0.3030905@gmail.com> Message-ID: In message <506557A0.3030905 at gmail.com>, at 10:54:08 on Fri, 28 Sep 2012, Riaz K Tayob writes >MSG as cover for corporate domination? > >Snip: > >For example, 51 percent >of the US Chamber, 65 perecent of PhRMA, 79 percent of Merck and Microsoft, >90 percent of Goldman Sachs and 94 percent of Vivendi lobbyists are former >government employees. Many clients seem to believe that, as a shortcut, the best way to hire a lobbyist to influence government is to find someone who used to work for government, especially in the department you want to lobby. In the UK we have a saying: "gamekeeper turned poacher", although the reverse: "poacher turned gamekeeper" is more familiar. The opposite view is that lobbyists should come from the industry they represent, because they are more likely to have experience of the whole eco-system, rather than skewed towards the government department they used to work for. -- Roland Perry -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From thiagotavares at safernet.org.br Fri Sep 28 11:07:19 2012 From: thiagotavares at safernet.org.br (Thiago Tavares Nunes de Oliveira) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 12:07:19 -0300 Subject: [governance] Google's officer with detention order in brasil In-Reply-To: References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com> <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org> Message-ID: <02350A3A-0235-4E7A-B1D0-5D6ED84AEE4C@safernet.org.br> Em 28/09/2012, às 10:35, Ivar A. M. Hartmann escreveu: > For those overlooking the key issue in this and similar cases in Brazil, it is not whether Google wants to secure its holding as a market leader or ensure its profit. The key issue is free speech. > No, is it NOT. The key issue is about power, as highlighted on this Der Spiegel article: http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/how-google-lobbies-german-government-over-internet-regulation-a-857654.html The key issue on democracy countries like Brazil is: "who sets the rules in this business: Google, with its terms of use, or the government and courts?" I remember you that this was NOT the first time that the chief of Google's office in Brazil faces criminal charges for not comply with brazilians court orders. The former Google Brazil president (now Facebook VP for Latin America) was indicted in 2006/07 for not comply with dozens of brazilians court orders that demanded Orkut users data to assist brazilian law enforcement authorities on child sexual abuse and neonazi cases: http://www.prsp.mpf.gov.br/prdc/sala-de-imprensa/noticias_prdc/noticia-3294 (english auto translation: http://bit.ly/S62POw) ps: an english background reading on this case is avaliable on WSJ website: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119273558149563775.html -- Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo sistema de antivírus da SaferNet e acredita-se estar livre de perigo. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From mueller at syr.edu Fri Sep 28 12:31:40 2012 From: mueller at syr.edu (Milton L Mueller) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 16:31:40 +0000 Subject: [governance] Google's officer with detention order in brasil In-Reply-To: <02350A3A-0235-4E7A-B1D0-5D6ED84AEE4C@safernet.org.br> References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com> <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org> <02350A3A-0235-4E7A-B1D0-5D6ED84AEE4C@safernet.org.br> Message-ID: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> What about the users? Shouldn't they have a say in the rules? Are you proposing to re-territorialize the Internet so that national governments can have full authority? According to one Brazilian commentator I interacted with, the law in question is a holdover from Brazil's dictatorship period. Even if it were not, the law in question is an anachronistic attempt to control all public discourse about candidates prior to an election (e.g., it would even be illegal to wear a T-shirt with a candidates' name on it). The child porn case you cite was a highly politicized exploitation of the issue, and overlooks the fact that Google was being asked to monitor/spy on its users (just as certain laws in the US asked for massive data retention). Next you will say that Google has to be regulated by govt to protect its users privacy, right? Google or any other multinational social media provider isn't perfect. But terms of use constitute a private ordering that users can opt out of if they don't use the service. Who in Brazil (or any other country) gets to opt out of dumb laws and dumb judges? From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Thiago Tavares Nunes de Oliveira Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 11:07 AM To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Ivar A. M. Hartmann Subject: Re: [governance] Google's officer with detention order in brasil Em 28/09/2012, às 10:35, Ivar A. M. Hartmann escreveu: For those overlooking the key issue in this and similar cases in Brazil, it is not whether Google wants to secure its holding as a market leader or ensure its profit. The key issue is free speech. No, is it NOT. The key issue is about power, as highlighted on this Der Spiegel article: http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/how-google-lobbies-german-government-over-internet-regulation-a-857654.html The key issue on democracy countries like Brazil is: "who sets the rules in this business: Google, with its terms of use, or the government and courts?" I remember you that this was NOT the first time that the chief of Google's office in Brazil faces criminal charges for not comply with brazilians court orders. The former Google Brazil president (now Facebook VP for Latin America) was indicted in 2006/07 for not comply with dozens of brazilians court orders that demanded Orkut users data to assist brazilian law enforcement authorities on child sexual abuse and neonazi cases: http://www.prsp.mpf.gov.br/prdc/sala-de-imprensa/noticias_prdc/noticia-3294 (english auto translation: http://bit.ly/S62POw) ps: an english background reading on this case is avaliable on WSJ website: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119273558149563775.html -- Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo sistema de antivírus e acredita-se estar livre de perigo. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From mueller at syr.edu Fri Sep 28 12:33:41 2012 From: mueller at syr.edu (Milton L Mueller) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 16:33:41 +0000 Subject: [governance] US Business hires of former government employees as lobbyists In-Reply-To: <506557A0.3030905@gmail.com> References: <506557A0.3030905@gmail.com> Message-ID: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223F000@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> "US Business hires former government employees as lobbyists" And in other news, "Sun rises in East" Milton L. Mueller Professor, Syracuse University School of Information Studies Internet Governance Project http://blog.internetgovernance.org -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From isolatedn at gmail.com Fri Sep 28 12:59:51 2012 From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian M) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 22:29:51 +0530 Subject: [governance] Google's officer with detention order in brasil In-Reply-To: References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com> <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org> Message-ID: On Sep 28, 2012 7:06 PM, "Ivar A. M. Hartmann" wrote: > > For those overlooking the key issue in this and similar cases in Brazil, it is not whether Google wants to secure its holding as a market leader or ensure its profit. The key issue is free speech. Yes, we need to see this as Google defending freedom of expression. It would be irresponsible on the part of a large, global Internet corporation as Google to submit to every directive by every Government organ from everywhere, without concern for the long term implications of such an easy approach for the Internet. Google's interests in this case are far broader than its own commercial interests and quite aligned to the global public interest. What the user needs to do is to fully endorse and support Google. Sivasubramanian M > Shifting the spotlight to Google's corporate interests is the same as stating that a critique of government restriction of the people's right to move freely is nothing but corporate lobby by automobile manufacturers. The fact that some private companies turn a profit from the enjoyment of certain human rights does not call for a simplistic view. > > Now let me just point something out: one of the main aspects of the human rights discourse in the last six decades has been the realization that following the law - rules that have been regularly enacted from a formal point of view - shouldn't be an excuse to violate human rights and dignity. This is what Nuremberg was all about. In other words, if a human rights violation is perfectly clear to civil society - as the restriction of free speech in Brazil currently is - then overlooking that fact and simply abiding by the law, regardless of what it says, is wrong. > To be perfectly clear, the comparison I'm making is for argument's sake, as the rights violations in each case are obviously very different in degree and nature. > But they are human rights violations all the same. > I wonder if 5 years from now we'll look back and condone the actions of internet corporations that did absolutely nothing against free speech and privacy restrictions imposed by formally legal rules. > > Best, > Ivar > > > > > On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 10:10 AM, McTim wrote: >> >> On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 4:35 AM, Pranesh Prakash wrote: >> > Carlos Vera Quintana [2012-09-27 00:04]: >> >> >> >> >> >> www.lahora.com.ec/index.php/movil/noticia/1101398913/Justicia_electoral_mantiene_orden_de_prisión_contra_directivo_de_Google.html >> > >> > >> > Marcelo Thompson of University of HK / Oxford Internet Institute argues that >> > the arrest is justified, and might even have been welcomed by Google: >> > >> > http://goo.gl/P47Yh >> >> >> A hyper-cynical POV. >> >> To a true cynic it reads like teaser to flog his book ;-) >> >> >> >> -- >> Cheers, >> >> McTim >> "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A >> route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From ca at cafonso.ca Fri Sep 28 13:35:21 2012 From: ca at cafonso.ca (Carlos A. Afonso) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 14:35:21 -0300 Subject: [governance] Google's officer with detention order in brasil In-Reply-To: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com> <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org> <02350A3A-0235-4E7A-B1D0-5D6ED84AEE4C@safernet.org.br> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: <5065DFD9.4030300@cafonso.ca> Hmmm... let us see: On 09/28/2012 01:31 PM, Milton L Mueller wrote: [...] > > According to one Brazilian commentator I interacted with, the law in > question is a holdover from Brazil's dictatorship period. Even if it > were not, the law in question is an anachronistic attempt to control > all public discourse about candidates prior to an election (e.g., it > would even be illegal to wear a T-shirt with a candidates' name on > it). Not true at all! People are free to wear what they want. Cars often display posters of candidates. People cannot carry posters, cartels or wear shirts mentioning candidates *only* in the voting area during the election day's voting period. [...] > Google or any other multinational social media provider isn't > perfect. But terms of use constitute a private ordering that users > can opt out of if they don't use the service. Who in Brazil (or any > other country) gets to opt out of dumb laws and dumb judges? [...] The service might be free and fully under the responsibility of a private organization, but access to the info is public. And, during the short period of electoral propaganda, there is not proper time for lenghty litigation... thus the electoral tribunal. Ivar is right -- the center of the problem is free expression --, but once a judge decides there is a defamation violation, the rest of the procedure follows and of course the "messenger" has full right to appeal (which Google did, but was turned down). Curiously, the candidate in question is terrible, the documentation shown in the video seem unquestionable, but there has been no due process of law to establish him as guilty so far. []s fraternos --c.a. -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From drc at virtualized.org Fri Sep 28 14:14:26 2012 From: drc at virtualized.org (David Conrad) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 11:14:26 -0700 Subject: [governance] US Business hires of former government employees as lobbyists In-Reply-To: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223F000@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> References: <506557A0.3030905@gmail.com> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223F000@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: <804C0590-3C28-437C-80FA-E054A46F90CA@virtualized.org> On Sep 28, 2012, at 9:33 AM, Milton L Mueller wrote: > "US Business hires former government employees as lobbyists" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amakudari http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeon-gwan_ye-u http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantouflage Which countries have laws that forbids this practice? Regards, -drc -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From thiagotavares at safernet.org.br Fri Sep 28 14:53:04 2012 From: thiagotavares at safernet.org.br (Thiago Tavares Nunes de Oliveira) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 15:53:04 -0300 Subject: [governance] Google's officer with detention order in brasil In-Reply-To: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com> <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org> <02350A3A-0235-4E7A-B1D0-5D6ED84AEE4C@safernet.org.br> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: Em 28/09/2012, às 13:31, Milton L Mueller escreveu: > What about the users? Shouldn’t they have a say in the rules? Of course YES. However, who has - or should have - the power and legitimacy to "decide" witch rules are acceptable when the users opinions are in conflict? One private company based in your own criteria or the judiciary branch based in the due process of law? > > Are you proposing to re-territorialize the Internet so that national governments can have full authority? > definitely NOT. What I am arguing is that when one international private company decide to make money and open a local office in a democratic country like Brazil, they should respect the judiciary branch and the due process of law. I am not discussing the content of the local laws, but the risks to democracy to give to a private company the power and legitimacy to decide which laws and court orders they should comply with. The risk, obvious, is to create a new kind of supranational "private court" based not in human rights international treaties and conventions, but in their own terms of services (new kind of transnational legislation for the Internet). > According to one Brazilian commentator I interacted with, the law in question is a holdover from Brazil’s dictatorship period. Even if it were not, the law in question is an anachronistic attempt to control all public discourse about candidates prior to an election (e.g., it would even be illegal to wear a T-shirt with a candidates’ name on it). This commentator could be myself! I totally agree that the brazilian electoral law is anachronistic and very restrictive to freedom of expression. We said this in public when this case arose (https://twitter.com/safernet/status/246816290411524096 - The Brazilian electoral legislation is draconian, analog and restrictive with freedom of expression of the citizens on the Internet. The censorship prevails in brazilians elections), and since the last election process in Brazil (2010) we are pushing pressure to reform this legislation and also for decriminalization of the defamation in Brazil. However, the point here is not the content of the local laws, but the power and legitimacy of a private company to decide based on their own criteria what court orders should be respected or not in democratic - and sovereigh - countries like Brazil. > The child porn case you cite was a highly politicized exploitation of the issue, and overlooks the fact that Google was being asked to monitor/spy on its users (just as certain laws in the US asked for massive data retention). Next you will say that Google has to be regulated by govt to protect its users privacy, right? > NO. I assume that you are very misinformed about the case and about my role and positions in this debate. Please take a look on the Google's statement on this case and also on the agreement signed before said certain things: Google's Statement: http://www.orkut.com.br/Main#About?page=keep Agreement signed: http://www.safernet.org.br/site/sites/default/files/TAC-MPF_Google-EN.pdf > > From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Thiago Tavares Nunes de Oliveira > Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 11:07 AM > To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Ivar A. M. Hartmann > Subject: Re: [governance] Google's officer with detention order in brasil > > Em 28/09/2012, às 10:35, Ivar A. M. Hartmann escreveu: > > > For those overlooking the key issue in this and similar cases in Brazil, it is not whether Google wants to secure its holding as a market leader or ensure its profit. The key issue is free speech. > > > No, is it NOT. The key issue is about power, as highlighted on this Der Spiegel article: http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/how-google-lobbies-german-government-over-internet-regulation-a-857654.html > > The key issue on democracy countries like Brazil is: > > "who sets the rules in this business: Google, with its terms of use, or the government and courts?" > > I remember you that this was NOT the first time that the chief of Google's office in Brazil faces criminal charges for not comply with brazilians court orders. The former Google Brazil president (now Facebook VP for Latin America) was indicted in 2006/07 for not comply with dozens of brazilians court orders that demanded Orkut users data to assist brazilian law enforcement authorities on child sexual abuse and neonazi cases: http://www.prsp.mpf.gov.br/prdc/sala-de-imprensa/noticias_prdc/noticia-3294 (english auto translation: http://bit.ly/S62POw) > > ps: an english background reading on this case is avaliable on WSJ website: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119273558149563775.html > > -- > Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo sistema de antivírus e > acredita-se estar livre de perigo. -- Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo sistema de antivírus da SaferNet e acredita-se estar livre de perigo. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Sat Sep 29 08:51:22 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 15:51:22 +0300 Subject: [governance] Google's officer with detention order in brasil In-Reply-To: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com> <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org> <02350A3A-0235-4E7A-B1D0-5D6ED84AEE4C@safernet.org.br> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: <5066EECA.10305@gmail.com> Milton The issue is very simple. There was due process of law, and a decision was made - rightly or wongly (recognising that it is well established jurisprudence in the ECHR - which is largely fair except to muslims and the US deferring against or in favour - for "margin of appreciation" to cope with "cultural" differences). The problems I have with your perspective, excluding the commitment to a liberalism (which I have admired for the longest time), in the context of discourses on this list, is that developing countries are set a higher standard than that applicable to rich countries. The implicit exceptionalism of the rich countries is what worries me because why is it ok ot have California state law (or US anti-trust, etc) apply extra-territorially but it is not acceptable to have developing countries' laws apply territorially. There is a double standard here that unfortunately does not pass robust disinterested scrutiny... perhaps multilateralism is NOT so bad when compared to the status quo (but then we would need to be evolutionary in a true sense, if so then even sincere reformists of ICANN would rally to get Parminder's IT4C radically altered while keeping the thrust of his politics into the ICANN processes... but alas, just more of the same...)... I recognise that even the framing of the debate, as is too prevalent on this list, forecloses decolonising the people-centred imagination to deal with issues of the internet being one global space, not confined to national boundaries, with proxies to bypass national laws available... there is something really new here that makes a mockery of the facidism that such state action allows... while not discounting the need to show umbrage in some form... now no one is seriously believing that issues can be totally suppressed (except perhaps for the RIAA and the USTR on IPRs) and things can be found, so what use the expression of approbrium (that is culturally necessary in some quarters, and may as well be given leeway unlike the lawless protestations of some of the muslim countries)?... Just some thoughts, take as you please - and if you feel this is not the right tenor for discourse here do let me know... I am open to that, even if we disagree,. riaz On 2012/09/28 07:31 PM, Milton L Mueller wrote: > > What about the users? Shouldn’t they have a say in the rules? > > Are you proposing to re-territorialize the Internet so that national > governments can have full authority? > > According to one Brazilian commentator I interacted with, the law in > question is a holdover from Brazil’s dictatorship period. Even if it > were not, the law in question is an anachronistic attempt to control > all public discourse about candidates prior to an election (e.g., it > would even be illegal to wear a T-shirt with a candidates’ name on it). > > The child porn case you cite was a highly politicized exploitation of > the issue, and overlooks the fact that Google was being asked to > monitor/spy on its users (just as certain laws in the US asked for > massive data retention). Next you will say that Google has to be > regulated by govt to protect its users privacy, right? > > Google or any other multinational social media provider isn’t perfect. > But terms of use constitute a private ordering that users can opt out > of if they don’t use the service. Who in Brazil (or any other country) > gets to opt out of dumb laws and dumb judges? > > *From:*governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org > [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] *On Behalf Of *Thiago > Tavares Nunes de Oliveira > *Sent:* Friday, September 28, 2012 11:07 AM > *To:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Ivar A. M. Hartmann > *Subject:* Re: [governance] Google's officer with detention order in > brasil > > Em 28/09/2012, às 10:35, Ivar A. M. Hartmann escreveu: > > > > For those overlooking the key issue in this and similar cases in > Brazil, it is not whether Google wants to secure its holding as a > market leader or ensure its profit. The key issue is free speech. > > No, is it NOT. The key issue is about power, as highlighted on this > Der Spiegel article: > http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/how-google-lobbies-german-government-over-internet-regulation-a-857654.html > > The key issue on democracy countries like Brazil is: > > "who sets the rules in this business: Google, with its terms of use, > or the government and courts?" > > I remember you that this was NOT the first time that the chief of > Google's office in Brazil faces criminal charges for not comply with > brazilians court orders. The former Google Brazil president (now > Facebook VP for Latin America) was indicted in 2006/07 for not comply > with dozens of brazilians court orders that demanded Orkut users data > to assist brazilian law enforcement authorities on child sexual abuse > and neonazi cases: > http://www.prsp.mpf.gov.br/prdc/sala-de-imprensa/noticias_prdc/noticia-3294 > (english auto translation: http://bit.ly/S62POw) > > ps: an english background reading on this case is avaliable on WSJ > website: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119273558149563775.html > > > -- > Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo sistema de antivírus e > acredita-se estar livre de perigo. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Sat Sep 29 08:54:14 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 15:54:14 +0300 Subject: [governance] Google's officer with detention order in brasil In-Reply-To: References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com> <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org> Message-ID: <5066EF76.7090602@gmail.com> The issue below can also be framed with less simplicity... there is an intersection of self-interest and public interest... by seeing it only one way, we may miss important aspects of the case, including the fact that human rights are essentially litigated mainly by corporations asserting rights rather than natural persons... after Citizens United decision in the US, many ought to give this framing some more consideration as it may be too simple... On your latter point, are you opting for the easy route of unilateral US control? You may as well be explicit... On 2012/09/28 07:59 PM, Sivasubramanian M wrote: > Yes, we need to see this as Google defending freedom of expression. It > would be irresponsible on the part of a large, global Internet > corporation as Google to submit to every directive by every Government > organ from everywhere, without concern for the long term implications > of such an easy approach for the Internet. -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Sat Sep 29 08:57:10 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 15:57:10 +0300 Subject: [governance] US Business hires of former government employees as lobbyists In-Reply-To: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223F000@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> References: <506557A0.3030905@gmail.com> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223F000@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: <5066F026.7040709@gmail.com> And therefore questioning MSG, on this platform, as a process modality is beyond the pale? You too can have any colour car you want, as long as it is black... The implications that flow from this article, while not new, are issues that need to be factored in as the conflation of powers between powerful countries and powerful corporations. It may be trite in some circles, but perhaps it needs reminding... On 2012/09/28 07:33 PM, Milton L Mueller wrote: > "US Business hires former government employees as lobbyists" > > And in other news, "Sun rises in East" > > > Milton L. Mueller > Professor, Syracuse University School of Information Studies > Internet Governance Project > http://blog.internetgovernance.org > > > > -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From daniel at digsys.bg Sat Sep 29 09:41:38 2012 From: daniel at digsys.bg (Daniel Kalchev) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 16:41:38 +0300 Subject: [governance] Google's officer with detention order in brasil In-Reply-To: References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com> <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org> Message-ID: <5066FA92.7000500@digsys.bg> On 28.09.12 19:59, Sivasubramanian M wrote: > Google's interests in this case are far broader than its own > commercial interests and quite aligned to the global public interest. > What the user needs to do is to fully endorse and support Google. Let's not forget for a second, that any "non-commercial" interests you attribute to Google (or whomever else) are in fact projection of their strict commercial interests. After all, each and every commercial subject exists only because of it's commercial interests and we should never make the mistake to attribute human abilities to corporations. However, Google is a special case and in no way the typical commercial enterprise many try to portrait it. It is not even the typical US Corporation. For Google to do what they do, they need to have serious backing from a bunch of "non existent" agencies all around the world (not only the US). If Google didn't have this backing, they would have closed doors long ago, because they have made so many things not event the most influential "Corporation" dares do. Anyway, the key point here is that whatever Google does to "behave", it does it because of peer pressure, not because they have any values in that regard. They essentially have no clue about the impact of their actions to the most of the world. In this respect, Google is exactly like any of the Governments out there --- only that Governments fear losing power, because they might not be re-elected due to poor "management", or sometimes fear an revolution happening or what not. While Google only fears their "sponsors" not turning the switch off. Ironically, it's the "Cold War syndrome" that makes Internet so democratic, so alive and "fair" for everyone. Daniel -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From isolatedn at gmail.com Sat Sep 29 13:18:55 2012 From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian M) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 22:48:55 +0530 Subject: [governance] Google's officer with detention order in brasil In-Reply-To: <5066EF76.7090602@gmail.com> References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com> <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org> <5066EF76.7090602@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sep 29, 2012 6:28 PM, "Riaz K Tayob" wrote: > > The issue below can also be framed with less simplicity... there is an intersection of self-interest and public interest... by seeing it only one way, we may miss important aspects of the case, including the fact that human rights are essentially litigated mainly by corporations asserting rights rather than natural persons... after Citizens United decision in the US, many ought to give this framing some more consideration as it may be too simple... > > On your latter point, are you opting for the easy route of unilateral US control? You may as well be explicit... > What did I say that has this to do with 'unilateral control? I said Corporations like Google ought to be concerned about the long term implications of the easy approach (of saying yes to every Government directive that interferes with Civil liberties) The other path (of legitimate and fair challenges to unfair directives) would be difficult, but a responsible thing to do. And I also said that the Internet Corporations might need help and support from users in such a defense :-) > > > On 2012/09/28 07:59 PM, Sivasubramanian M wrote: >> >> Yes, we need to see this as Google defending freedom of expression. It would be irresponsible on the part of a large, global Internet corporation as Google to submit to every directive by every Government organ from everywhere, without concern for the long term implications of such an easy approach for the Internet. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From isolatedn at gmail.com Sat Sep 29 13:23:55 2012 From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian M) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 22:53:55 +0530 Subject: [governance] Google's officer with detention order in brasil In-Reply-To: References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com> <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org> <5066EF76.7090602@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sep 29, 2012 10:48 PM, "Sivasubramanian M" wrote: > > On Sep 29, 2012 6:28 PM, "Riaz K Tayob" wrote: > > > > The issue below can also be framed with less simplicity... there is an intersection of self-interest and public interest... by seeing it only one way, we may miss important aspects of the case, including the fact that human rights are essentially litigated mainly by corporations asserting rights rather than natural persons... after Citizens United decision in the US, many ought to give this framing some more consideration as it may be too simple... > > > > On your latter point, are you opting for the easy route of unilateral US control? You may as well be explicit... > > > > What did I say that has this to do with 'unilateral control? (Correction: What did I say that has anything to do with 'unilateral control?') I said Corporations like Google ought to be concerned about the long term implications of the easy approach (of saying yes to every Government directive that interferes with Civil liberties) The other path (of legitimate and fair challenges to unfair directives) would be difficult, but a responsible thing to do. > > And I also said that the Internet Corporations might need help and support from users in such a defense :-) > > > > > > > On 2012/09/28 07:59 PM, Sivasubramanian M wrote: > >> > >> Yes, we need to see this as Google defending freedom of expression. It would be irresponsible on the part of a large, global Internet corporation as Google to submit to every directive by every Government organ from everywhere, without concern for the long term implications of such an easy approach for the Internet. > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Sat Sep 29 15:40:13 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2012 07:40:13 +1200 Subject: [governance] Youth Tech Camp in Pakistan Message-ID: Dear All, It was really great to read about the Youth Tech Camp in Pakistan, see below: You are subscribed to South and Central Asia for U.S. Department of State. This information has recently been updated, and is now available. South and Central Asia: U.S. Department of State Hosts Youth TechCamp in Pakistan: Empowering Youth for Social Change 09/29/2012 10:39 AM EDT U.S. Department of State Hosts Youth TechCamp in Pakistan: Empowering Youth for Social Change Media Note Office of the Spokesperson Washington, DC September 29, 2012 ------------------------------ The U.S. Department of State’s Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs (ECA), in collaboration with U.S. Embassy Islamabad and iEARN, hosted Youth TechCamp in Islamabad, Pakistan, September 27-29, 2012. A signature series hosted by the State Department to increase digital literacy, Youth TechCamp Pakistan engaged 40 alumni of the Kennedy-Lugar Youth Exchange and Study (YES) Program . Youth TechCamp Pakistan encourages young people to engage and contribute to the digital networks and technologies of today’s interconnected world. Youth TechCamp Pakistan provided three full days of training with top local technology experts specializing in civic journalism and social activism. Youth TechCamp Pakistan enabled these future leaders to learn how they can leverage connection technologies to make a positive impact in their communities and around the world. Join the conversation on Youth TechCamp Pakistan on Facebook and Twitter using the hashtag #TechCamp. See photos from Youth TechCamp Pakistan here . For more information and media inquiries about the Youth TechCamp, contact Suzanne Philion at PhilionSK at state.gov -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From nigidaad at gmail.com Sat Sep 29 15:47:39 2012 From: nigidaad at gmail.com (Nighat Dad) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2012 00:47:39 +0500 Subject: [governance] Youth Tech Camp in Pakistan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Sala, Thanks for posting this. I was one of the lead trainer in the camp. Best, Nighat Dad Skype: Nighat.dad Twitter: @nighatdad Sent from my iPad On 30-Sep-2012, at 12:40 AM, "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" wrote: > Dear All, > > It was really great to read about the Youth Tech Camp in Pakistan, see below: > > You are subscribed to South and Central Asia for U.S. Department of State. This information has recently been updated, and is now available. > > South and Central Asia: U.S. Department of State Hosts Youth TechCamp in Pakistan: Empowering Youth for Social Change > 09/29/2012 10:39 AM EDT > > U.S. Department of State Hosts Youth TechCamp in Pakistan: Empowering Youth for Social Change > > > Media Note > Office of the Spokesperson > Washington, DC > September 29, 2012 > > The U.S. Department of State’s Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs (ECA), in collaboration with U.S. Embassy Islamabad and iEARN, hosted Youth TechCamp in Islamabad, Pakistan, September 27-29, 2012. A signature series hosted by the State Department to increase digital literacy, Youth TechCamp Pakistan engaged 40 alumni of the Kennedy-Lugar Youth Exchange and Study (YES) Program. > > Youth TechCamp Pakistan encourages young people to engage and contribute to the digital networks and technologies of today’s interconnected world. > > Youth TechCamp Pakistan provided three full days of training with top local technology experts specializing in civic journalism and social activism. Youth TechCamp Pakistan enabled these future leaders to learn how they can leverage connection technologies to make a positive impact in their communities and around the world. > > Join the conversation on Youth TechCamp Pakistan on Facebook and Twitter using the hashtag #TechCamp. See photos from Youth TechCamp Pakistan here. > > For more information and media inquiries about the Youth TechCamp, contact Suzanne Philion at PhilionSK at state.gov > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com Sat Sep 29 15:55:17 2012 From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2012 07:55:17 +1200 Subject: [governance] Youth Tech Camp in Pakistan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Nighat, That's excellent and it will be good to have this information shared amongst those within the Arab IGF. I am not sure if there is a Youth Session in Baku and if there is it will be wonderful to hear from you and others who were involved in similar camps. Warm Regards, Sala On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 7:47 AM, Nighat Dad wrote: > Hi Sala, > > Thanks for posting this. I was one of the lead trainer in the camp. > > Best, > Nighat Dad > Skype: Nighat.dad > Twitter: @nighatdad > > Sent from my iPad > > On 30-Sep-2012, at 12:40 AM, "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" < > salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > > Dear All, > > It was really great to read about the Youth Tech Camp in Pakistan, see > below: > > You are subscribed to South and Central Asia for U.S. Department of State. > This information has recently been updated, and is now available. > South and Central Asia: U.S. Department of State Hosts Youth TechCamp in > Pakistan: Empowering Youth for Social Change > 09/29/2012 10:39 AM EDT > > U.S. Department of State Hosts Youth TechCamp in Pakistan: Empowering > Youth for Social Change > > Media Note > Office of the Spokesperson > Washington, DC > September 29, 2012 > > ------------------------------ > > The U.S. Department of State’s Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs > (ECA), in collaboration with U.S. Embassy Islamabad and iEARN, > hosted Youth TechCamp in Islamabad, Pakistan, September 27-29, 2012. A > signature series hosted by the State Department to increase digital > literacy, Youth TechCamp Pakistan engaged 40 alumni of the Kennedy-Lugar > Youth Exchange and Study (YES) Program . > > Youth TechCamp Pakistan encourages young people to engage and contribute > to the digital networks and technologies of today’s interconnected world. > > Youth TechCamp Pakistan provided three full days of training with top > local technology experts specializing in civic journalism and social > activism. Youth TechCamp Pakistan enabled these future leaders to learn how > they can leverage connection technologies to make a positive impact in > their communities and around the world. > > Join the conversation on Youth TechCamp Pakistan on Facebook and > Twitter using the hashtag #TechCamp. See photos from Youth TechCamp > Pakistan here > . > > For more information and media inquiries about the Youth TechCamp, contact > Suzanne Philion at PhilionSK at state.gov > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji Twitter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From jlfullsack at orange.fr Sun Sep 30 06:28:20 2012 From: jlfullsack at orange.fr (Jean-Louis FULLSACK) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2012 12:28:20 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [governance] Assange v Obama at the UN Message-ID: <122701718.63803.1349000900936.JavaMail.www@wwinf1d14> I share Riaz's opinion on almost all the address of Julian Assange to the UN But as civil society representatives we should also be retrospectively critical on our own beheaviour during the WSIS. Thus, in his address Assange said : Message du 27/09/12 13:47 > De : "Riaz K Tayob" > A : > Copie à : > Objet : [governance] Assange v Obama at the UN > > > > (The best use of time spent at the UN in my memory...) > > http://wikileaks.org/Transcript-of-Julian-Assange.html > > Transcript of Julian Assange Address to the UN > > Published: Thursday 27 September 3am BST > > Transcript of Julian Assange’s Address to the UN on Human Rights - given > on Wednesday 26th September - Proofed from live speech > > Foreign Minister Patino, fellow delegates, ladies and gentlemen. > > I speak to you today as a free man, because despite having been detained > for 659 days without charge, I am free in the most basic and important > sense. I am free to speak my mind. > > This freedom exists because the nation of Ecuador has granted me > political asylum and other nations have rallied to support its decision. > > And it is because of Article 19 of the United Nations Universal > Declaration of Human Rights that WikiLeaks is able to "receive and > impart information... through any media, and any medium and regardless > of frontiers". And it is because of Article 14.1 of the Universal > Declaration of Human Rights which enshrines the right to seek asylum > from persecution, and the 1951 Refugee Convention and other conventions > produced by the United Nations that I am able to be protected along with > others from political persecution. > > It is thanks to the United Nations that I am able to exercise my > inalienable right to seek protection from the arbitrary and excessive > actions taken by governments against me and the staff and supporters of > my organisation. It is because of the absolute prohibition on torture > enshrined in customary international law and the UN Convention Against > Torture that we stand firmly to denounce torture and war crimes, as an > organisation, regardless of who the perpetrators are. > > I would like to thank the courtesy afforded to me by the Government of > Ecuador in providing me with the space here today speak once again at > the UN, in circumstances very different to my intervention in the > Universal Periodic Review in Geneva. > > Almost two years ago today, I spoke there about our work uncovering the > torture and killing of over 100,000 Iraqi citizens. > > But today I want to tell you an American story. > > I want to tell you the story of a young American soldier in Iraq. > > The soldier was born in Cresent Oaklahoma to a Welsh mother and US Navy > father. His parents fell in love. His father was stationed at a US > military base in Wales. > > The soldier showed early promise as a boy, winning top prize at science > fairs 3 years in a row. > > He believed in the truth, and like all of us, hated hypocrisy. > > He believed in liberty and the right for all of us to pursue happiness. > He believed in the values that founded an independent United States. He > believed in Madison, he believed in Jefferson and he believed in Paine. > Like many teenagers, he was unsure what to do with his life, but he knew > he wanted to defend his country and he knew he wanted to learn about the > world. He entered the US military and, like his father, trained as an > intelligence analyst. > > In late 2009, aged 21, he was deployed to Iraq. > > There, it is alleged, he saw a US military that often did not follow the > rule of law, and in fact, engaged in murder and supported political > corruption. > > It is alleged, it was there, in Baghdad, in 2010 that he gave to > WikiLeaks, and to the world, details that exposed the torture of Iraqis, > the murder of journalists and the detailed records of over 120,000 > civilian killings in Iraq and in Afghanistan. He is also alleged to have > given WikiLeaks 251,000 US diplomatic cables, which then went on to help > trigger the Arab Spring. This young soldier’s name is Bradley Manning. > > Allegedly betrayed by an informer, he was then imprisoned in Baghdad, > imprisoned in Kuwait, and imprisoned in Virginia, where he was kept for > 9 months in isolation and subject to severe abuse. The UN Special > Rapporteur for Torture, Juan Mendez, investigated and formally found > against the United States. > > Hillary Clinton’s spokesman resigned. Bradley Manning, science fair > all-star, soldier and patriot was degraded, abused and psychologically > tortured by his own government. He was charged with a death penalty > offence. These things happened to him, as the US government tried to > break him, to force him to testify against WikiLeaks and me. > > As of today Bradley Manning has been detained without trial for 856 days. > > The legal maximum in the US military is 120 days. > > The US administration is trying to erect a national regime of secrecy. A > national regime of obfuscation. > > A regime where any government employee revealing sensitive information > to a media organization can be sentenced to death, life imprisonment or > for espionage and journalists from a media organization with them. > > We should not underestimate the scale of the investigation which has > happened into WikiLeaks. I only wish I could say that Bradley Manning > was the only victim of the situation. But the assault on WikiLeaks in > relation to that matter and others has produced an investigation that > Australian diplomats say is without precedent in its scale and nature. > That the US government called a "whole of government investigation." > Those government agencies identified so far as a matter of public record > having been involved in this investigation include: the Department of > Defense, Centcom, the Defence Intelligence Agency, the US Army Criminal > Investigation Division, the United States Forces in Iraq, the First Army > Division, The US Army Computer Crimes Investigative Unit, the CCIU, the > Second Army Cyber-Command. And within those three separate intelligence > investigations, the Department of Justice, most significantly, and its > US Grand Jury in Alexandria Virginia, the Federal Bureau of > Investigation, which now has, according to court testimony early this > year produced a file of 42,135 pages into WikiLeaks, of which less than > 8000 concern Bradley Manning. The Department of State, the Department of > State’s Diplomatic Security Services. In addition we have been > investigated by the Office of the Director General of National > Intelligence, the ODNI, the Director of National Counterintelligence > Executive, the Central Intelligence Agency, the House Oversight > Committee, the National Security Staff Interagency Committee, and the > PIAB - the President’s Intelligence Advisory Board. > > The Department of Justice spokesperson Dean Boyd confirmed in July 2012 > that the Department of Justice investigation into WikiLeaks is ongoing. > > For all Barack Obama’s fine words yesterday, and there were many of > them, fine words, it is his administration that boasts on his campaign > website of criminalizing more speech that all previous US presidents > combined. > > I am reminded of the phrase: "the audacity of hope." > > Who can say that the President of the United States is not audacious? > > Was it not audacity for the United States government to take credit for > the last two years’ avalanche of progress? > > Was it not audacious to say, on Tuesday, that the "United States > supported the forces of change" in the Arab Spring? > > Tunisian history did not begin in December 2010. > > And Mohammed Bouazizi did not set himself on fire so that Barack Obama > could be reelected. > > His death was an emblem of the despair he had to endure under the Ben > Ali regime. > > The world knew, after reading WikiLeaks publications, that the Ben Ali > regime and its government had for long years enjoyed the indifference, > if not the support, of the United States - in full knowledge of its > excesses and its crimes. > > So it must come as a surprise to Tunisians that the United States > supported the forces of change in their country. > > It must come as a surprise to the Egyptian teenagers who washed American > teargas out of their eyes that the US administration supported change in > Egypt. > > It must come as a surprise to those who heard Hillary Clinton insist > that Mubarak’s regime was "stable," and when it was clear to everyone > that it was not, that its hated intelligence chief, Sueilman, who we > proved the US knew was a torturer, should take the realm. > > It must come as a surprise to all those Egyptians who heard Vice > President Joseph Biden declare that Hosni Mubarak was a democrat and > that Julian Assange was a high tech terrorist. > > It is disrespectful to the dead and incarcerated of the Bahrain uprising > to claim that the United States "supported the forces of change." > > This is indeed audacity. > > Who can say that it is not audacious that the President - concerned to > appear leaderly - looks back on this sea change - the people’s change - > and calls it his own? > > But we can take heart here too, because it means that the White House > has seen that this progress is inevitable. > > In this "season of progress" the president has seen which way the wind > is blowing. > > And he must now pretend that it is his adminstration that made it blow. > > Very well. This is better than the alternative - to drift into > irrelevance as the world moves on. > > We must be clear here. > > The United States is not the enemy. > > Its government is not uniform. In some cases good people in the United > States supported the forces of change. And perhaps Barack Obama > personally was one of them. > > But in others, and en masse, early on, it actively opposed them. > > This is a matter of historical record. > > And it is not fair and it is not appropriate for the President to > distort that record for political gain, or for the sake of uttering fine > words. > > Credit should be given where it is due, but it should be withheld where > it is not. > > And as for the fine words. > > They are fine words. > > And we commend and agree with these fine words. > > We agree when President Obama said yesterday that people can resolve > their differences peacefully. > > We agree that diplomacy can take the place of war. > > And we agree that this is an interdependent world, that all of us have a > stake in. > > We agree that freedom and self-determination are not merely American or > Western values, but universal values. > > And we agree with the President when he says that we must speak honestly > if we are serious about these ideals. > > But fine words languish without commensurate actions. > > President Obama spoke out strongly in favour of the freedom of expression. > > "Those in power," he said, "have to resist the temptation to crack down > on dissent." > > There are times for words and there are times for action. The time for > words has run out. > > It is time for the US to cease its persecution of WikiLeaks, to cease > its persecution of our people, and to cease its persecution of our > alleged sources. > > It is time for President Obama do the right thing, and join the forces > of change, not in fine words but in fine deeds. > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From riaz.tayob at gmail.com Sun Sep 30 06:42:16 2012 From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2012 13:42:16 +0300 Subject: [governance] Google's officer with detention order in brasil In-Reply-To: References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com> <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org> <5066EF76.7090602@gmail.com> Message-ID: <50682208.6080704@gmail.com> Adequately chastised, you did not say that. Perhaps let me be more precise and make my point based on deductions of what I see as the positions expressed ... If freedom for corporations, like Google, is important in developing countries then should the same standard not apply to CIR and other issues in the US? If so, then why is the systemic issue of Internet Governance not factored in (high or low) in order to inform the overall perspective? I am not against the Human Rights argument (actually with the crisis these seem to be more needed now in developing countries) but the framing of the arguments regarding countries needs to be more evenly applied. On 2012/09/29 08:18 PM, Sivasubramanian M wrote: > > On Sep 29, 2012 6:28 PM, "Riaz K Tayob" > wrote: > > > > The issue below can also be framed with less simplicity... there is > an intersection of self-interest and public interest... by seeing it > only one way, we may miss important aspects of the case, including the > fact that human rights are essentially litigated mainly by > corporations asserting rights rather than natural persons... after > Citizens United decision in the US, many ought to give this framing > some more consideration as it may be too simple... > > > > On your latter point, are you opting for the easy route of > unilateral US control? You may as well be explicit... > > > > What did I say that has this to do with 'unilateral control? I said > Corporations like Google ought to be concerned about the long term > implications of the easy approach (of saying yes to every Government > directive that interferes with Civil liberties) The other path (of > legitimate and fair challenges to unfair directives) would be > difficult, but a responsible thing to do. > > And I also said that the Internet Corporations might need help and > support from users in such a defense :-) > > > > > > > On 2012/09/28 07:59 PM, Sivasubramanian M wrote: > >> > >> Yes, we need to see this as Google defending freedom of expression. > It would be irresponsible on the part of a large, global Internet > corporation as Google to submit to every directive by every Government > organ from everywhere, without concern for the long term implications > of such an easy approach for the Internet. > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From kabani.asif at gmail.com Sun Sep 30 09:09:31 2012 From: kabani.asif at gmail.com (Kabani) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2012 18:09:31 +0500 Subject: [governance] Youth Tech Camp in Pakistan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sala, Good to hear from you on the subject, Yes this is good efforts, and thanks to Nighat and others for the efforts, this should be shared wide especially in Arab IGF, we should recommend some for for this experience Sharing. Regards Asif Kabani Pakistan On 30 September 2012 00:55, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Nighat, > > That's excellent and it will be good to have this information shared > amongst those within the Arab IGF. I am not sure if there is a Youth > Session in Baku and if there is it will be wonderful to hear from you and > others who were involved in similar camps. > > Warm Regards, > Sala > > > On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 7:47 AM, Nighat Dad wrote: > >> Hi Sala, >> >> Thanks for posting this. I was one of the lead trainer in the camp. >> >> Best, >> Nighat Dad >> Skype: Nighat.dad >> Twitter: @nighatdad >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 30-Sep-2012, at 12:40 AM, "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" < >> salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Dear All, >> >> It was really great to read about the Youth Tech Camp in Pakistan, see >> below: >> >> You are subscribed to South and Central Asia for U.S. Department of >> State. This information has recently been updated, and is now available. >> South and Central Asia: U.S. Department of State Hosts Youth TechCamp in >> Pakistan: Empowering Youth for Social Change >> 09/29/2012 10:39 AM EDT >> >> U.S. Department of State Hosts Youth TechCamp in Pakistan: Empowering >> Youth for Social Change >> >> Media Note >> Office of the Spokesperson >> Washington, DC >> September 29, 2012 >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> The U.S. Department of State’s Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs >> (ECA), in collaboration with U.S. Embassy Islamabad and iEARN, >> hosted Youth TechCamp in Islamabad, Pakistan, September 27-29, 2012. A >> signature series hosted by the State Department to increase digital >> literacy, Youth TechCamp Pakistan engaged 40 alumni of the Kennedy-Lugar >> Youth Exchange and Study (YES) Program . >> >> Youth TechCamp Pakistan encourages young people to engage and contribute >> to the digital networks and technologies of today’s interconnected world. >> >> Youth TechCamp Pakistan provided three full days of training with top >> local technology experts specializing in civic journalism and social >> activism. Youth TechCamp Pakistan enabled these future leaders to learn how >> they can leverage connection technologies to make a positive impact in >> their communities and around the world. >> >> Join the conversation on Youth TechCamp Pakistan on Facebook and >> Twitter using the hashtag #TechCamp. See photos from Youth TechCamp >> Pakistan here >> . >> >> For more information and media inquiries about the Youth TechCamp, >> contact Suzanne Philion at PhilionSK at state.gov >> >> -- >> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala >> P.O. Box 17862 >> Suva >> Fiji >> >> Twitter: @SalanietaT >> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro >> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 >> >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -- *Follow me @* * **Before you print think about the** **ENVIRONMENT* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com Sun Sep 30 09:12:42 2012 From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2012 22:12:42 +0900 Subject: [governance] Youth Tech Camp in Pakistan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sala, there is a main session during the Arab IGF dedicated to Youth. In addition, of the 15 approved workshops, there are 2 related to Youth (a great amount bearing in mind 5 main themes and a couple of workshops related to other themes). Fahd On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 4:55 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Nighat, > > That's excellent and it will be good to have this information shared > amongst those within the Arab IGF. I am not sure if there is a Youth > Session in Baku and if there is it will be wonderful to hear from you and > others who were involved in similar camps. > > Warm Regards, > Sala > > > On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 7:47 AM, Nighat Dad wrote: > >> Hi Sala, >> >> Thanks for posting this. I was one of the lead trainer in the camp. >> >> Best, >> Nighat Dad >> Skype: Nighat.dad >> Twitter: @nighatdad >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 30-Sep-2012, at 12:40 AM, "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" < >> salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Dear All, >> >> It was really great to read about the Youth Tech Camp in Pakistan, see >> below: >> >> You are subscribed to South and Central Asia for U.S. Department of >> State. This information has recently been updated, and is now available. >> South and Central Asia: U.S. Department of State Hosts Youth TechCamp in >> Pakistan: Empowering Youth for Social Change >> 09/29/2012 10:39 AM EDT >> >> U.S. Department of State Hosts Youth TechCamp in Pakistan: Empowering >> Youth for Social Change >> >> Media Note >> Office of the Spokesperson >> Washington, DC >> September 29, 2012 >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> The U.S. Department of State’s Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs >> (ECA), in collaboration with U.S. Embassy Islamabad and iEARN, >> hosted Youth TechCamp in Islamabad, Pakistan, September 27-29, 2012. A >> signature series hosted by the State Department to increase digital >> literacy, Youth TechCamp Pakistan engaged 40 alumni of the Kennedy-Lugar >> Youth Exchange and Study (YES) Program . >> >> Youth TechCamp Pakistan encourages young people to engage and contribute >> to the digital networks and technologies of today’s interconnected world. >> >> Youth TechCamp Pakistan provided three full days of training with top >> local technology experts specializing in civic journalism and social >> activism. Youth TechCamp Pakistan enabled these future leaders to learn how >> they can leverage connection technologies to make a positive impact in >> their communities and around the world. >> >> Join the conversation on Youth TechCamp Pakistan on Facebook and >> Twitter using the hashtag #TechCamp. See photos from Youth TechCamp >> Pakistan here >> . >> >> For more information and media inquiries about the Youth TechCamp, >> contact Suzanne Philion at PhilionSK at state.gov >> >> -- >> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala >> P.O. Box 17862 >> Suva >> Fiji >> >> Twitter: @SalanietaT >> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro >> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 >> >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.igcaucus.org >> To be removed from the list, visit: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing >> >> For all other list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: >> http://www.igcaucus.org/ >> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t >> >> > > > -- > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala > P.O. Box 17862 > Suva > Fiji > > Twitter: @SalanietaT > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.igcaucus.org > To be removed from the list, visit: > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing > > For all other list information and functions, see: > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: > http://www.igcaucus.org/ > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.igcaucus.org To be removed from the list, visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing For all other list information and functions, see: http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: http://www.igcaucus.org/ Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t