From kichango at gmail.com  Wed Oct 31 18:09:48 2012
From: kichango at gmail.com (Mawaki Chango)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 22:09:48 +0000
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <1351717131.30525.YahooMailNeo@web120102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <6htvq562u9xwndojpff6tjwa.1351715549740@email.android.com>
	<1351717131.30525.YahooMailNeo@web120102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CACTo+v8pGfPPAPGyryUm_rd0zTkRx4OzhT0ZTNLi2h2Kh+=pxw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

... Still, I'm not sure I understand the process that got us
nominating people and end up with a name that was never mentioned here
(this is nothing personal). Were there other CS groups that had been
running the same nomination process? Is this at the discretion of the
Secretariat? And what happens now to the idea of collectively prepared
discourse or talking points, and to Milton's good start on that?

Just asking.

mawaki

On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 8:58 PM, Nnenna <nne75 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I think Carlos and Valentina make a great pair.
>
> Cheers
>
> N
>
>
>
> Nnenna  Nwakanma |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG  |  Consultants
> Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development
> Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471 |Mob. 07416820
> Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065| http://www.nnenna.org
> nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 | nnennaorg.blogspot.com
>
> ________________________________
> From: Carlos A. Afonso <ca at cafonso.ca>
> To: william.drake at uzh.ch; glaser at cgi.br
> Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 8:32 PM
> Subject: Re: Re: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
>
> :)
>
>
>
>
> Carlos A. Afonso
>
> William Drake <william.drake at uzh.ch> escreveu:
> My apologies to Carlos, I cut and paste from someone else's email
>
>
> On Oct 31, 2012, at 8:05 PM, Hartmut Richard Glaser wrote:
>
>
> Correct name is => Carlos Alberto Afonso ...
>
> ==========================================
> On 31/10/12 17:04, William Drake wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> The secretariat has invited Carlos Alfonso for the opening session and
> Valentina Pellizzer for the closing session.
>
> Bill
>
> On Oct 31, 2012, at 10:37 AM, Izumi AIZU wrote:
>
> Dear list,
>
> Sorry for not following this up earlier. Just too many things to do.
>
> Though I said we may run a poll, I guess Carlos is already our de facto
> speaker,
> and Nnnena seems to have received good support and fulfills the gender
> balance
> and also from developing region.
>
> And as Ginger rightly suggested both speakers will take up the talking
> points
> into their text, with some degree of, of course, their own words to be
> added.
>
> May I ask you if this is our rough consensus?
>
> Many thanks,
>
> izumi
>
>
>
>
>
> 2012/10/11 William Drake <william.drake at uzh.ch>:
>
> it's what they're sending registrants
>
> On Oct 11, 2012, at 8:42 AM, Katy P wrote:
>
> What? When did this happen?
>
> On Oct 11, 2012 8:24 AM, "William Drake" <william.drake at uzh.ch> wrote:
>
> In light of the host country's jaw dropping decision to publicly
> disseminate all participants' passport numbers, I hope whoever we have
> speaking in the opening an closing will emphasize the centrality of personal
> privacy protection in Internet governance.
>
> Best
>
> Bill
>
> On Oct 10, 2012, at 5:10 AM, Nnenna wrote:
>
> +1 On each of the points below.  I am currently in the Côte d'Ivoire
> Internet Governance Forum and my drafting capacity is limited.  However, I
> would like to see a line that extends "Multistakeholderism" down to active
> national participation of all stakeholders. AFAIK, in as much as in some
> countries, the government is weighing in, in ways that may appear
> overbearing, in others, the decision-makers are actually note interested or
> think it is an NGO thing.
>
> Can we have a "Development Agenda" paragraph? I am also thinking that
> "Participation" may also need to be a paragraph of its own
>
> Best
>
> Nnenna
>
>
>
> Nnenna  Nwakanma |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG
>   |  Consultants
> Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development
> Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471 |Mob. 07416820
> Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065| http://www.nnenna.org/
> nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 | nnennaorg.blogspot.com
>
> ________________________________
> From: Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu>
> To: 'Ginger Paque' <ginger at paque.net>; "governance at lists.igcaucus.org"
> <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 9:07 PM
> Subject: RE: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
>
>
> From: gpaque at gmail.com [mailto:gpaque at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Ginger Paque
>
> I think that both points are important... I would say 'in addition to' not
> 'rather than'. Whom we choose sends a signal as sometimes as significant as
> their words, and we tend to know their general positions as well as speaking
> abilities when we nominate them.
>
> Ginger and colleagues:
> Yes, of course it is "in addition to" not "rather than" - but has there
> been any substantive discussion yet? Frankly I think what they say is more
> important than who we choose, but agree that in some cases "the medium is
> the message."  At any rate we are long on "who" and rather short on "what"
> at the moment, so…
>
> let me throw out three short statements on issues that I passionately
> believe should be addressed. In doing so, I will make an attempt to address
> them in a way that takes into account the differences among us and hope
> others do so in the same spirit. Other candidate topics would include IPR,
> development…I defer to others there.
>
> Human rights
> CS believes that the absence of gatekeepers and the open, global
> communication enabled by the Internet realizes the promise of Article 19 of
> the UN UDHR. To erect (national) legal barriers to the free flow of
> information is a bad idea and contrary to the individual human right to
> freedom of expression. We therefore oppose efforts to create "national
> Internets," or to block and filter internet access in ways that deny
> individuals access to applications, content and services of their choice.
> All attempts to deem certain forms of communication and information illegal
> and remove them must follow established, transparent processes of law and
> should not involve prior restraint.
>
> Security and Securitization
> CS opposes efforts to militarize the Internet, or any actions that would
> foster a destructive and wasteful cyber arms race among governments and/or
> private actors. We consider the surreptitious use of exploits and malware
> for surveillance or attacks to be criminal regardless of whether they are
> deployed by governments, private corporations or organized criminals. We are
> skeptical of efforts to subordinate the design and use of information and
> communication technology to "national security" agendas. We believe that
> Internet security will be achieved primarily at the operational level and
> that national security and military agendas often work against rather than
> for users' security needs.
>
> Multistakeholderism
> Global governance institutions should not be restricted to states, so CS
> welcomes the additional participation in global policy making that
> multi-stakeholder processes provide. But CS cautions that multi-stakeholder
> participation is not an end in itself.  Opening up global governance
> institutions to additional voices from civil society and business does not
> by itself ensure that individual rights are adequately protected or that the
> best substantive policies are developed and enforced. In the informal spaces
> created by MS institutions, it is possible that powerful governmental and
> corporate actors can make deals contrary to the interests of Internet users.
> MS processes must incorporate and institutionalize concepts of due process,
> separation of powers and user's inalienable civil and political rights.
>
> Milton L. Mueller
> Professor, Syracuse University School of Information Studies
> Internet Governance Project
> http://blog.internetgovernance.org
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
> --
>
> Izumi Aizu <<
>
>          Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
>
>           Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
>                                  Japan
>                                 * * * * *
>           << Writing the Future of the History >>
>                                www.anr.org
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>

-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From rguerra at privaterra.org  Wed Oct 31 18:29:51 2012
From: rguerra at privaterra.org (Robert Guerra)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 18:29:51 -0400
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <CACTo+v8pGfPPAPGyryUm_rd0zTkRx4OzhT0ZTNLi2h2Kh+=pxw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6htvq562u9xwndojpff6tjwa.1351715549740@email.android.com> <1351717131.30525.YahooMailNeo@web120102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <CACTo+v8pGfPPAPGyryUm_rd0zTkRx4OzhT0ZTNLi2h2Kh+=pxw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <77843C2D-FF1E-4FF7-BA2C-5199F3622B4E@privaterra.org>

To be honest, in my opinion, the process to select speakers for the main opening session has seemed ad-hoc at best.

Would have expected a far more deliberate process along the lines that the caucus reviews, recommends and nominates persons for the MAG.

Robert
--
R. Guerra
Phone/Cell: +1 202-905-2081
Twitter: twitter.com/netfreedom 
Email: rguerra at privaterra.org

On 2012-10-31, at 6:09 PM, Mawaki Chango wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> ... Still, I'm not sure I understand the process that got us
> nominating people and end up with a name that was never mentioned here
> (this is nothing personal). Were there other CS groups that had been
> running the same nomination process? Is this at the discretion of the
> Secretariat? And what happens now to the idea of collectively prepared
> discourse or talking points, and to Milton's good start on that?
> 
> Just asking.
> 
> mawaki
> 
> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 8:58 PM, Nnenna <nne75 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I think Carlos and Valentina make a great pair.
>> 
>> Cheers
>> 
>> N
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Nnenna  Nwakanma |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG  |  Consultants
>> Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development
>> Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471 |Mob. 07416820
>> Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065| http://www.nnenna.org
>> nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 | nnennaorg.blogspot.com
>> 
>> ________________________________
>> From: Carlos A. Afonso <ca at cafonso.ca>
>> To: william.drake at uzh.ch; glaser at cgi.br
>> Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 8:32 PM
>> Subject: Re: Re: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
>> 
>> :)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Carlos A. Afonso
>> 
>> William Drake <william.drake at uzh.ch> escreveu:
>> My apologies to Carlos, I cut and paste from someone else's email
>> 
>> 
>> On Oct 31, 2012, at 8:05 PM, Hartmut Richard Glaser wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Correct name is => Carlos Alberto Afonso ...
>> 
>> ==========================================
>> On 31/10/12 17:04, William Drake wrote:
>> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> The secretariat has invited Carlos Alfonso for the opening session and
>> Valentina Pellizzer for the closing session.
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
>> On Oct 31, 2012, at 10:37 AM, Izumi AIZU wrote:
>> 
>> Dear list,
>> 
>> Sorry for not following this up earlier. Just too many things to do.
>> 
>> Though I said we may run a poll, I guess Carlos is already our de facto
>> speaker,
>> and Nnnena seems to have received good support and fulfills the gender
>> balance
>> and also from developing region.
>> 
>> And as Ginger rightly suggested both speakers will take up the talking
>> points
>> into their text, with some degree of, of course, their own words to be
>> added.
>> 
>> May I ask you if this is our rough consensus?
>> 
>> Many thanks,
>> 
>> izumi
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 2012/10/11 William Drake <william.drake at uzh.ch>:
>> 
>> it's what they're sending registrants
>> 
>> On Oct 11, 2012, at 8:42 AM, Katy P wrote:
>> 
>> What? When did this happen?
>> 
>> On Oct 11, 2012 8:24 AM, "William Drake" <william.drake at uzh.ch> wrote:
>> 
>> In light of the host country's jaw dropping decision to publicly
>> disseminate all participants' passport numbers, I hope whoever we have
>> speaking in the opening an closing will emphasize the centrality of personal
>> privacy protection in Internet governance.
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
>> On Oct 10, 2012, at 5:10 AM, Nnenna wrote:
>> 
>> +1 On each of the points below.  I am currently in the Côte d'Ivoire
>> Internet Governance Forum and my drafting capacity is limited.  However, I
>> would like to see a line that extends "Multistakeholderism" down to active
>> national participation of all stakeholders. AFAIK, in as much as in some
>> countries, the government is weighing in, in ways that may appear
>> overbearing, in others, the decision-makers are actually note interested or
>> think it is an NGO thing.
>> 
>> Can we have a "Development Agenda" paragraph? I am also thinking that
>> "Participation" may also need to be a paragraph of its own
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Nnenna
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Nnenna  Nwakanma |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG
>>  |  Consultants
>> Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development
>> Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471 |Mob. 07416820
>> Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065| http://www.nnenna.org/
>> nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 | nnennaorg.blogspot.com
>> 
>> ________________________________
>> From: Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu>
>> To: 'Ginger Paque' <ginger at paque.net>; "governance at lists.igcaucus.org"
>> <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 9:07 PM
>> Subject: RE: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
>> 
>> 
>> From: gpaque at gmail.com [mailto:gpaque at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Ginger Paque
>> 
>> I think that both points are important... I would say 'in addition to' not
>> 'rather than'. Whom we choose sends a signal as sometimes as significant as
>> their words, and we tend to know their general positions as well as speaking
>> abilities when we nominate them.
>> 
>> Ginger and colleagues:
>> Yes, of course it is "in addition to" not "rather than" - but has there
>> been any substantive discussion yet? Frankly I think what they say is more
>> important than who we choose, but agree that in some cases "the medium is
>> the message."  At any rate we are long on "who" and rather short on "what"
>> at the moment, so…
>> 
>> let me throw out three short statements on issues that I passionately
>> believe should be addressed. In doing so, I will make an attempt to address
>> them in a way that takes into account the differences among us and hope
>> others do so in the same spirit. Other candidate topics would include IPR,
>> development…I defer to others there.
>> 
>> Human rights
>> CS believes that the absence of gatekeepers and the open, global
>> communication enabled by the Internet realizes the promise of Article 19 of
>> the UN UDHR. To erect (national) legal barriers to the free flow of
>> information is a bad idea and contrary to the individual human right to
>> freedom of expression. We therefore oppose efforts to create "national
>> Internets," or to block and filter internet access in ways that deny
>> individuals access to applications, content and services of their choice.
>> All attempts to deem certain forms of communication and information illegal
>> and remove them must follow established, transparent processes of law and
>> should not involve prior restraint.
>> 
>> Security and Securitization
>> CS opposes efforts to militarize the Internet, or any actions that would
>> foster a destructive and wasteful cyber arms race among governments and/or
>> private actors. We consider the surreptitious use of exploits and malware
>> for surveillance or attacks to be criminal regardless of whether they are
>> deployed by governments, private corporations or organized criminals. We are
>> skeptical of efforts to subordinate the design and use of information and
>> communication technology to "national security" agendas. We believe that
>> Internet security will be achieved primarily at the operational level and
>> that national security and military agendas often work against rather than
>> for users' security needs.
>> 
>> Multistakeholderism
>> Global governance institutions should not be restricted to states, so CS
>> welcomes the additional participation in global policy making that
>> multi-stakeholder processes provide. But CS cautions that multi-stakeholder
>> participation is not an end in itself.  Opening up global governance
>> institutions to additional voices from civil society and business does not
>> by itself ensure that individual rights are adequately protected or that the
>> best substantive policies are developed and enforced. In the informal spaces
>> created by MS institutions, it is possible that powerful governmental and
>> corporate actors can make deals contrary to the interests of Internet users.
>> MS processes must incorporate and institutionalize concepts of due process,
>> separation of powers and user's inalienable civil and political rights.
>> 
>> Milton L. Mueller
>> Professor, Syracuse University School of Information Studies
>> Internet Governance Project
>> http://blog.internetgovernance.org
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>   governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>   http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> 
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>   http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>   http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> 
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> 
>> 
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>   governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>   http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> 
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>   http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>   http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> 
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> 
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> 
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> 
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> 
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> 
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Izumi Aizu <<
>> 
>>         Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
>> 
>>          Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
>>                                 Japan
>>                                * * * * *
>>          << Writing the Future of the History >>
>>                               www.anr.org
>> 
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> 
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> 
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> 
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> 
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> 
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> 
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com  Wed Oct 31 18:40:51 2012
From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 11:40:51 +1300
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <77843C2D-FF1E-4FF7-BA2C-5199F3622B4E@privaterra.org>
References: <6htvq562u9xwndojpff6tjwa.1351715549740@email.android.com>
	<1351717131.30525.YahooMailNeo@web120102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<CACTo+v8pGfPPAPGyryUm_rd0zTkRx4OzhT0ZTNLi2h2Kh+=pxw@mail.gmail.com>
	<77843C2D-FF1E-4FF7-BA2C-5199F3622B4E@privaterra.org>
Message-ID: <CAJwbTiBvqYdhV9QRAtMxTVssmBezD_Li5wVvAKHVXWCRpm2mmA@mail.gmail.com>

yes it took me by surprise as well Mawaki. :O

Sala

On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:29 AM, Robert Guerra <rguerra at privaterra.org>wrote:

> To be honest, in my opinion, the process to select speakers for the main
> opening session has seemed ad-hoc at best.
>
> Would have expected a far more deliberate process along the lines that the
> caucus reviews, recommends and nominates persons for the MAG.
>
> Robert
> --
> R. Guerra
> Phone/Cell: +1 202-905-2081
> Twitter: twitter.com/netfreedom
> Email: rguerra at privaterra.org
>
> On 2012-10-31, at 6:09 PM, Mawaki Chango wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > ... Still, I'm not sure I understand the process that got us
> > nominating people and end up with a name that was never mentioned here
> > (this is nothing personal). Were there other CS groups that had been
> > running the same nomination process? Is this at the discretion of the
> > Secretariat? And what happens now to the idea of collectively prepared
> > discourse or talking points, and to Milton's good start on that?
> >
> > Just asking.
> >
> > mawaki
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 8:58 PM, Nnenna <nne75 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I think Carlos and Valentina make a great pair.
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >>
> >> N
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Nnenna  Nwakanma |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG  |  Consultants
> >> Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development
> >> Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471 |Mob. 07416820
> >> Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065| http://www.nnenna.org
> >> nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 | nnennaorg.blogspot.com
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Carlos A. Afonso <ca at cafonso.ca>
> >> To: william.drake at uzh.ch; glaser at cgi.br
> >> Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 8:32 PM
> >> Subject: Re: Re: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
> >>
> >> :)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Carlos A. Afonso
> >>
> >> William Drake <william.drake at uzh.ch> escreveu:
> >> My apologies to Carlos, I cut and paste from someone else's email
> >>
> >>
> >> On Oct 31, 2012, at 8:05 PM, Hartmut Richard Glaser wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Correct name is => Carlos Alberto Afonso ...
> >>
> >> ==========================================
> >> On 31/10/12 17:04, William Drake wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> The secretariat has invited Carlos Alfonso for the opening session and
> >> Valentina Pellizzer for the closing session.
> >>
> >> Bill
> >>
> >> On Oct 31, 2012, at 10:37 AM, Izumi AIZU wrote:
> >>
> >> Dear list,
> >>
> >> Sorry for not following this up earlier. Just too many things to do.
> >>
> >> Though I said we may run a poll, I guess Carlos is already our de facto
> >> speaker,
> >> and Nnnena seems to have received good support and fulfills the gender
> >> balance
> >> and also from developing region.
> >>
> >> And as Ginger rightly suggested both speakers will take up the talking
> >> points
> >> into their text, with some degree of, of course, their own words to be
> >> added.
> >>
> >> May I ask you if this is our rough consensus?
> >>
> >> Many thanks,
> >>
> >> izumi
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 2012/10/11 William Drake <william.drake at uzh.ch>:
> >>
> >> it's what they're sending registrants
> >>
> >> On Oct 11, 2012, at 8:42 AM, Katy P wrote:
> >>
> >> What? When did this happen?
> >>
> >> On Oct 11, 2012 8:24 AM, "William Drake" <william.drake at uzh.ch> wrote:
> >>
> >> In light of the host country's jaw dropping decision to publicly
> >> disseminate all participants' passport numbers, I hope whoever we have
> >> speaking in the opening an closing will emphasize the centrality of
> personal
> >> privacy protection in Internet governance.
> >>
> >> Best
> >>
> >> Bill
> >>
> >> On Oct 10, 2012, at 5:10 AM, Nnenna wrote:
> >>
> >> +1 On each of the points below.  I am currently in the Côte d'Ivoire
> >> Internet Governance Forum and my drafting capacity is limited.
>  However, I
> >> would like to see a line that extends "Multistakeholderism" down to
> active
> >> national participation of all stakeholders. AFAIK, in as much as in some
> >> countries, the government is weighing in, in ways that may appear
> >> overbearing, in others, the decision-makers are actually note
> interested or
> >> think it is an NGO thing.
> >>
> >> Can we have a "Development Agenda" paragraph? I am also thinking that
> >> "Participation" may also need to be a paragraph of its own
> >>
> >> Best
> >>
> >> Nnenna
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Nnenna  Nwakanma |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG
> >>  |  Consultants
> >> Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development
> >> Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471 |Mob. 07416820
> >> Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065| http://www.nnenna.org/
> >> nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 | nnennaorg.blogspot.com
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu>
> >> To: 'Ginger Paque' <ginger at paque.net>; "governance at lists.igcaucus.org"
> >> <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 9:07 PM
> >> Subject: RE: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
> >>
> >>
> >> From: gpaque at gmail.com [mailto:gpaque at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Ginger
> Paque
> >>
> >> I think that both points are important... I would say 'in addition to'
> not
> >> 'rather than'. Whom we choose sends a signal as sometimes as
> significant as
> >> their words, and we tend to know their general positions as well as
> speaking
> >> abilities when we nominate them.
> >>
> >> Ginger and colleagues:
> >> Yes, of course it is "in addition to" not "rather than" - but has there
> >> been any substantive discussion yet? Frankly I think what they say is
> more
> >> important than who we choose, but agree that in some cases "the medium
> is
> >> the message."  At any rate we are long on "who" and rather short on
> "what"
> >> at the moment, so…
> >>
> >> let me throw out three short statements on issues that I passionately
> >> believe should be addressed. In doing so, I will make an attempt to
> address
> >> them in a way that takes into account the differences among us and hope
> >> others do so in the same spirit. Other candidate topics would include
> IPR,
> >> development…I defer to others there.
> >>
> >> Human rights
> >> CS believes that the absence of gatekeepers and the open, global
> >> communication enabled by the Internet realizes the promise of Article
> 19 of
> >> the UN UDHR. To erect (national) legal barriers to the free flow of
> >> information is a bad idea and contrary to the individual human right to
> >> freedom of expression. We therefore oppose efforts to create "national
> >> Internets," or to block and filter internet access in ways that deny
> >> individuals access to applications, content and services of their
> choice.
> >> All attempts to deem certain forms of communication and information
> illegal
> >> and remove them must follow established, transparent processes of law
> and
> >> should not involve prior restraint.
> >>
> >> Security and Securitization
> >> CS opposes efforts to militarize the Internet, or any actions that would
> >> foster a destructive and wasteful cyber arms race among governments
> and/or
> >> private actors. We consider the surreptitious use of exploits and
> malware
> >> for surveillance or attacks to be criminal regardless of whether they
> are
> >> deployed by governments, private corporations or organized criminals.
> We are
> >> skeptical of efforts to subordinate the design and use of information
> and
> >> communication technology to "national security" agendas. We believe that
> >> Internet security will be achieved primarily at the operational level
> and
> >> that national security and military agendas often work against rather
> than
> >> for users' security needs.
> >>
> >> Multistakeholderism
> >> Global governance institutions should not be restricted to states, so CS
> >> welcomes the additional participation in global policy making that
> >> multi-stakeholder processes provide. But CS cautions that
> multi-stakeholder
> >> participation is not an end in itself.  Opening up global governance
> >> institutions to additional voices from civil society and business does
> not
> >> by itself ensure that individual rights are adequately protected or
> that the
> >> best substantive policies are developed and enforced. In the informal
> spaces
> >> created by MS institutions, it is possible that powerful governmental
> and
> >> corporate actors can make deals contrary to the interests of Internet
> users.
> >> MS processes must incorporate and institutionalize concepts of due
> process,
> >> separation of powers and user's inalienable civil and political rights.
> >>
> >> Milton L. Mueller
> >> Professor, Syracuse University School of Information Studies
> >> Internet Governance Project
> >> http://blog.internetgovernance.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ____________________________________________________________
> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>   governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> >> To be removed from the list, visit:
> >>   http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >>
> >> For all other list information and functions, see:
> >>   http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >>   http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >>
> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >>
> >>
> >> ____________________________________________________________
> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>   governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> >> To be removed from the list, visit:
> >>   http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >>
> >> For all other list information and functions, see:
> >>   http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >>   http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >>
> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ____________________________________________________________
> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> >> To be removed from the list, visit:
> >>    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >>
> >> For all other list information and functions, see:
> >>    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >>
> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >>
> >> ____________________________________________________________
> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> >> To be removed from the list, visit:
> >>    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >>
> >> For all other list information and functions, see:
> >>    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >>
> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Izumi Aizu <<
> >>
> >>         Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
> >>
> >>          Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
> >>                                 Japan
> >>                                * * * * *
> >>          << Writing the Future of the History >>
> >>                               www.anr.org
> >>
> >> ____________________________________________________________
> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> >> To be removed from the list, visit:
> >>    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >>
> >> For all other list information and functions, see:
> >>    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >>
> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ____________________________________________________________
> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> >> To be removed from the list, visit:
> >>    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >>
> >> For all other list information and functions, see:
> >>    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >>
> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ____________________________________________________________
> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> >> To be removed from the list, visit:
> >>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >>
> >> For all other list information and functions, see:
> >>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >>
> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >>
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> > To be removed from the list, visit:
> >     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >
> > For all other list information and functions, see:
> >     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >
> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
P.O. Box 17862
Suva
Fiji

Twitter: @SalanietaT
Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121101/1ceaf2a6/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From shailam at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 31 18:42:43 2012
From: shailam at yahoo.com (shaila mistry)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 15:42:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <CAJwbTiBvqYdhV9QRAtMxTVssmBezD_Li5wVvAKHVXWCRpm2mmA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6htvq562u9xwndojpff6tjwa.1351715549740@email.android.com> <1351717131.30525.YahooMailNeo@web120102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <CACTo+v8pGfPPAPGyryUm_rd0zTkRx4OzhT0ZTNLi2h2Kh+=pxw@mail.gmail.com> <77843C2D-FF1E-4FF7-BA2C-5199F3622B4E@privaterra.org> <CAJwbTiBvqYdhV9QRAtMxTVssmBezD_Li5wVvAKHVXWCRpm2mmA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1351723363.30961.YahooMailNeo@web160506.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

me too :)


 
The journey begins sooner than you anticipate !
..................... the renaissance of composure !



________________________________
 From: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com>
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Robert Guerra <rguerra at privaterra.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
 

yes it took me by surprise as well Mawaki. :O

Sala


On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:29 AM, Robert Guerra <rguerra at privaterra.org> wrote:

To be honest, in my opinion, the process to select speakers for the main opening session has seemed ad-hoc at best.
>
>Would have expected a far more deliberate process along the lines that the caucus reviews, recommends and nominates persons for the MAG.
>
>
>Robert
>--
>R. Guerra
>Phone/Cell: +1 202-905-2081
>Twitter: twitter.com/netfreedom
>Email: rguerra at privaterra.org
>
>
>On 2012-10-31, at 6:09 PM, Mawaki Chango wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> ... Still, I'm not sure I understand the process that got us
>> nominating people and end up with a name that was never mentioned here
>> (this is nothing personal). Were there other CS groups that had been
>> running the same nomination process? Is this at the discretion of the
>> Secretariat? And what happens now to the idea of collectively prepared
>> discourse or talking points, and to Milton's good start on that?
>>
>> Just asking.
>>
>> mawaki
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 8:58 PM, Nnenna <nne75 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I think Carlos and Valentina make a great pair.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> N
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nnenna  Nwakanma |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG  |  Consultants
>>> Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development
>>> Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471 |Mob. 07416820
>>> Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065| http://www.nnenna.org
>>> nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 | nnennaorg.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Carlos A. Afonso <ca at cafonso.ca>
>>> To: william.drake at uzh.ch; glaser at cgi.br
>>> Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 8:32 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Re: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
>>>
>>> :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Carlos A. Afonso
>>>
>>> William Drake <william.drake at uzh.ch> escreveu:
>>> My apologies to Carlos, I cut and paste from someone else's email
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 31, 2012, at 8:05 PM, Hartmut Richard Glaser wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Correct name is => Carlos Alberto Afonso ...
>>>
>>> ==========================================
>>> On 31/10/12 17:04, William Drake wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> The secretariat has invited Carlos Alfonso for the opening session and
>>> Valentina Pellizzer for the closing session.
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>> On Oct 31, 2012, at 10:37 AM, Izumi AIZU wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear list,
>>>
>>> Sorry for not following this up earlier. Just too many things to do.
>>>
>>> Though I said we may run a poll, I guess Carlos is already our de facto
>>> speaker,
>>> and Nnnena seems to have received good support and fulfills the gender
>>> balance
>>> and also from developing region.
>>>
>>> And as Ginger rightly suggested both speakers will take up the talking
>>> points
>>> into their text, with some degree of, of course, their own words to be
>>> added.
>>>
>>> May I ask you if this is our rough consensus?
>>>
>>> Many thanks,
>>>
>>> izumi
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2012/10/11 William Drake <william.drake at uzh.ch>:
>>>
>>> it's what they're sending registrants
>>>
>>> On Oct 11, 2012, at 8:42 AM, Katy P wrote:
>>>
>>> What? When did this happen?
>>>
>>> On Oct 11, 2012 8:24 AM, "William Drake" <william.drake at uzh.ch> wrote:
>>>
>>> In light of the host country's jaw dropping decision to publicly
>>> disseminate all participants' passport numbers, I hope whoever we have
>>> speaking in the opening an closing will emphasize the centrality of personal
>>> privacy protection in Internet governance.
>>>
>>> Best
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>> On Oct 10, 2012, at 5:10 AM, Nnenna wrote:
>>>
>>> +1 On each of the points below.  I am currently in the Côte d'Ivoire
>>> Internet Governance Forum and my drafting capacity is limited.  However, I
>>> would like to see a line that extends "Multistakeholderism" down to active
>>> national participation of all stakeholders. AFAIK, in as much as in some
>>> countries, the government is weighing in, in ways that may appear
>>> overbearing, in others, the decision-makers are actually note interested or
>>> think it is an NGO thing.
>>>
>>> Can we have a "Development Agenda" paragraph? I am also thinking that
>>> "Participation" may also need to be a paragraph of its own
>>>
>>> Best
>>>
>>> Nnenna
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nnenna  Nwakanma |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG
>>>  |  Consultants
>>> Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development
>>> Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471 |Mob. 07416820
>>> Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065| http://www.nnenna.org/
>>> nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 | nnennaorg.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu>
>>> To: 'Ginger Paque' <ginger at paque.net>; "governance at lists.igcaucus.org"
>>> <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 9:07 PM
>>> Subject: RE: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
>>>
>>>
>>> From: gpaque at gmail.com [mailto:gpaque at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Ginger Paque
>>>
>>> I think that both points are important... I would say 'in addition to' not
>>> 'rather than'. Whom we choose sends a signal as sometimes as significant as
>>> their words, and we tend to know their general positions as well as speaking
>>> abilities when we nominate them.
>>>
>>> Ginger and colleagues:
>>> Yes, of course it is "in addition to" not "rather than" - but has there
>>> been any substantive discussion yet? Frankly I think what they say is more
>>> important than who we choose, but agree that in some cases "the medium is
>>> the message."  At any rate we are long on "who" and rather short on "what"
>>> at the moment, so…
>>>
>>> let me throw out three short statements on issues that I passionately
>>> believe should be addressed. In doing so, I will make an attempt to address
>>> them in a way that takes into account the differences among us and hope
>>> others do so in the same spirit. Other candidate topics would include IPR,
>>> development…I defer to others there.
>>>
>>> Human rights
>>> CS believes that the absence of gatekeepers and the open, global
>>> communication enabled by the Internet realizes the promise of Article 19 of
>>> the UN UDHR. To erect (national) legal barriers to the free flow of
>>> information is a bad idea and contrary to the individual human right to
>>> freedom of expression. We therefore oppose efforts to create "national
>>> Internets," or to block and filter internet access in ways that deny
>>> individuals access to applications, content and services of their choice.
>>> All attempts to deem certain forms of communication and information illegal
>>> and remove them must follow established, transparent processes of law and
>>> should not involve prior restraint.
>>>
>>> Security and Securitization
>>> CS opposes efforts to militarize the Internet, or any actions that would
>>> foster a destructive and wasteful cyber arms race among governments and/or
>>> private actors. We consider the surreptitious use of exploits and malware
>>> for surveillance or attacks to be criminal regardless of whether they are
>>> deployed by governments, private corporations or organized criminals. We are
>>> skeptical of efforts to subordinate the design and use of information and
>>> communication technology to "national security" agendas. We believe that
>>> Internet security will be achieved primarily at the operational level and
>>> that national security and military agendas often work against rather than
>>> for users' security needs.
>>>
>>> Multistakeholderism
>>> Global governance institutions should not be restricted to states, so CS
>>> welcomes the additional participation in global policy making that
>>> multi-stakeholder processes provide. But CS cautions that multi-stakeholder
>>> participation is not an end in itself.  Opening up global governance
>>> institutions to additional voices from civil society and business does not
>>> by itself ensure that individual rights are adequately protected or that the
>>> best substantive policies are developed and enforced. In the informal spaces
>>> created by MS institutions, it is possible that powerful governmental and
>>> corporate actors can make deals contrary to the interests of Internet users.
>>> MS processes must incorporate and institutionalize concepts of due process,
>>> separation of powers and user's inalienable civil and political rights.
>>>
>>> Milton L. Mueller
>>> Professor, Syracuse University School of Information Studies
>>> Internet Governance Project
>>> http://blog.internetgovernance.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>   governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>   http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>   http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>   http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>   governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>   http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>   http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>   http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Izumi Aizu <<
>>>
>>>         Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
>>>
>>>          Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
>>>                                 Japan
>>>                                * * * * *
>>>          << Writing the Future of the History >>
>>>                               www.anr.org
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>
>____________________________________________________________
>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
>For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
>Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 

Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
P.O. Box 17862
Suva
Fiji

Twitter: @SalanietaT
Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851

 


____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
    http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121031/d6191a03/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From ca at cafonso.ca  Wed Oct 31 20:54:01 2012
From: ca at cafonso.ca (Carlos A. Afonso)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 22:54:01 -0200
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
Message-ID: <fkduetnfs2lhk6t2vfl3sonq.1351731113278@email.android.com>

To be honest, this discussion started in this list several weeks ago, Robert. What is your proposal?

--c.a.

Carlos A. AfonsoRobert Guerra <rguerra at privaterra.org> escreveu:To be honest, in my opinion, the process to select speakers for the main opening session has seemed ad-hoc at best.

Would have expected a far more deliberate process along the lines that the caucus reviews, recommends and nominates persons for the MAG.

Robert
--
R. Guerra
Phone/Cell: +1 202-905-2081
Twitter: twitter.com/netfreedom 
Email: rguerra at privaterra.org

On 2012-10-31, at 6:09 PM, Mawaki Chango wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> ... Still, I'm not sure I understand the process that got us
> nominating people and end up with a name that was never mentioned here
> (this is nothing personal). Were there other CS groups that had been
> running the same nomination process? Is this at the discretion of the
> Secretariat? And what happens now to the idea of collectively prepared
> discourse or talking points, and to Milton's good start on that?
> 
> Just asking.
> 
> mawaki
> 
> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 8:58 PM, Nnenna <nne75 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I think Carlos and Valentina make a great pair.
>> 
>> Cheers
>> 
>> N
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Nnenna  Nwakanma |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG  |  Consultants
>> Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development
>> Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471 |Mob. 07416820
>> Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065| http://www.nnenna.org
>> nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 | nnennaorg.blogspot.com
>> 
>> ________________________________
>> From: Carlos A. Afonso <ca at cafonso.ca>
>> To: william.drake at uzh.ch; glaser at cgi.br
>> Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 8:32 PM
>> Subject: Re: Re: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
>> 
>> :)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Carlos A. Afonso
>> 
>> William Drake <william.drake at uzh.ch> escreveu:
>> My apologies to Carlos, I cut and paste from someone else's email
>> 
>> 
>> On Oct 31, 2012, at 8:05 PM, Hartmut Richard Glaser wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Correct name is => Carlos Alberto Afonso ...
>> 
>> ==========================================
>> On 31/10/12 17:04, William Drake wrote:
>> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> The secretariat has invited Carlos Alfonso for the opening session and
>> Valentina Pellizzer for the closing session.
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
>> On Oct 31, 2012, at 10:37 AM, Izumi AIZU wrote:
>> 
>> Dear list,
>> 
>> Sorry for not following this up earlier. Just too many things to do.
>> 
>> Though I said we may run a poll, I guess Carlos is already our de facto
>> speaker,
>> and Nnnena seems to have received good support and fulfills the gender
>> balance
>> and also from developing region.
>> 
>> And as Ginger rightly suggested both speakers will take up the talking
>> points
>> into their text, with some degree of, of course, their own words to be
>> added.
>> 
>> May I ask you if this is our rough consensus?
>> 
>> Many thanks,
>> 
>> izumi
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 2012/10/11 William Drake <william.drake at uzh.ch>:
>> 
>> it's what they're sending registrants
>> 
>> On Oct 11, 2012, at 8:42 AM, Katy P wrote:
>> 
>> What? When did this happen?
>> 
>> On Oct 11, 2012 8:24 AM, "William Drake" <william.drake at uzh.ch> wrote:
>> 
>> In light of the host country's jaw dropping decision to publicly
>> disseminate all participants' passport numbers, I hope whoever we have
>> speaking in the opening an closing will emphasize the centrality of personal
>> privacy protection in Internet governance.
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
>> On Oct 10, 2012, at 5:10 AM, Nnenna wrote:
>> 
>> +1 On each of the points below.  I am currently in the Côte d'Ivoire
>> Internet Governance Forum and my drafting capacity is limited.  However, I
>> would like to see a line that extends "Multistakeholderism" down to active
>> national participation of all stakeholders. AFAIK, in as much as in some
>> countries, the government is weighing in, in ways that may appear
>> overbearing, in others, the decision-makers are actually note interested or
>> think it is an NGO thing.
>> 
>> Can we have a "Development Agenda" paragraph? I am also thinking that
>> "Participation" may also need to be a paragraph of its own
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Nnenna
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Nnenna  Nwakanma |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG
>>  |  Consultants
>> Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development
>> Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471 |Mob. 07416820
>> Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065| http://www.nnenna.org/
>> nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 | nnennaorg.blogspot.com
>> 
>> ________________________________
>> From: Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu>
>> To: 'Ginger Paque' <ginger at paque.net>; "governance at lists.igcaucus.org"
>> <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 9:07 PM
>> Subject: RE: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
>> 
>> 
>> From: gpaque at gmail.com [mailto:gpaque at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Ginger Paque
>> 
>> I think that both points are important... I would say 'in addition to' not
>> 'rather than'. Whom we choose sends a signal as sometimes as significant as
>> their words, and we tend to know their general positions as well as speaking
>> abilities when we nominate them.
>> 
>> Ginger and colleagues:
>> Yes, of course it is "in addition to" not "rather than" - but has there
>> been any substantive discussion yet? Frankly I think what they say is more
>> important than who we choose, but agree that in some cases "the medium is
>> the message."  At any rate we are long on "who" and rather short on "what"
>> at the moment, so…
>> 
>> let me throw out three short statements on issues that I passionately
>> believe should be addressed. In doing so, I will make an attempt to address
>> them in a way that takes into account the differences among us and hope
>> others do so in the same spirit. Other candidate topics would include IPR,
>> development…I defer to others there.
>> 
>> Human rights
>> CS believes that the absence of gatekeepers and the open, global
>> communication enabled by the Internet realizes the promise of Article 19 of
>> the UN UDHR. To erect (national) legal barriers to the free flow of
>> information is a bad idea and contrary to the individual human right to
>> freedom of expression. We therefore oppose efforts to create "national
>> Internets," or to block and filter internet access in ways that deny
>> individuals access to applications, content and services of their choice.
>> All attempts to deem certain forms of communication and information illegal
>> and remove them must follow established, transparent processes of law and
>> should not involve prior restraint.
>> 
>> Security and Securitization
>> CS opposes efforts to militarize the Internet, or any actions that would
>> foster a destructive and wasteful cyber arms race among governments and/or
>> private actors. We consider the surreptitious use of exploits and malware
>> for surveillance or attacks to be criminal regardless of whether they are
>> deployed by governments, private corporations or organized criminals. We are
>> skeptical of efforts to subordinate the design and use of information and
>> communication technology to "national security" agendas. We believe that
>> Internet security will be achieved primarily at the operational level and
>> that national security and military agendas often work against rather than
>> for users' security needs.
>> 
>> Multistakeholderism
>> Global governance institutions should not be restricted to states, so CS
>> welcomes the additional participation in global policy making that
>> multi-stakeholder processes provide. But CS cautions that multi-stakeholder
>> participation is not an end in itself.  Opening up global governance
>> institutions to additional voices from civil society and business does not
>> by itself ensure that individual rights are adequately protected or that the
>> best substantive policies are developed and enforced. In the informal spaces
>> created by MS institutions, it is possible that powerful governmental and
>> corporate actors can make deals contrary to the interests of Internet users.
>> MS processes must incorporate and institutionalize concepts of due process,
>> separation of powers and user's inalienable civil and political rights.
>> 
>> Milton L. Mueller
>> Professor, Syracuse University School of Information Studies
>> Internet Governance Project
>> http://blog.internetgovernance.org
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>   governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>   http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> 
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>   http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>   http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> 
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> 
>> 
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>   governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>   http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> 
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>   http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>   http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> 
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> 
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> 
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> 
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> 
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> 
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Izumi Aizu <<
>> 
>>         Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
>> 
>>          Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
>>                                 Japan
>>                                * * * * *
>>          << Writing the Future of the History >>
>>                               www.anr.org
>> 
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> 
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> 
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> 
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> 
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> 
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> 
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121031/1cbc8549/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From aizu at anr.org  Wed Oct 31 21:30:15 2012
From: aizu at anr.org (Izumi AIZU)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 10:30:15 +0900
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <1351723363.30961.YahooMailNeo@web160506.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <6htvq562u9xwndojpff6tjwa.1351715549740@email.android.com>
 <1351717131.30525.YahooMailNeo@web120102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CACTo+v8pGfPPAPGyryUm_rd0zTkRx4OzhT0ZTNLi2h2Kh+=pxw@mail.gmail.com>
 <77843C2D-FF1E-4FF7-BA2C-5199F3622B4E@privaterra.org> <CAJwbTiBvqYdhV9QRAtMxTVssmBezD_Li5wVvAKHVXWCRpm2mmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1351723363.30961.YahooMailNeo@web160506.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CA+YNoKjSLcC-OYZt_hsxfXzYP+N1hbRYy_0cCZLBRjV5rVh1Vg@mail.gmail.com>

It is in part my fault for not wrapping up the discussion quickly, to
select the speakers
and liaise to the Secretariat. So sorry about this delay.

I guess IGF Secretariat chose one from IGC members and another one from non-IGC.

They had indicated that the speaker does not have to be IGC member per se.

IGC is not the sole representative of the Civil Society for IGF.

Yet I believe Valentina will also  be an excellent speaker, especially from
Central/East Europe.


izumi



2012/11/1 shaila mistry <shailam at yahoo.com>:
> me too :)
>
> The journey begins sooner than you anticipate !
> ..................... the renaissance of composure !
>
> ________________________________
> From: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com>
>
> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Robert Guerra <rguerra at privaterra.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 3:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
>
> yes it took me by surprise as well Mawaki. :O
>
> Sala
>
> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:29 AM, Robert Guerra <rguerra at privaterra.org>
> wrote:
>
> To be honest, in my opinion, the process to select speakers for the main
> opening session has seemed ad-hoc at best.
>
> Would have expected a far more deliberate process along the lines that the
> caucus reviews, recommends and nominates persons for the MAG.
>
> Robert
> --
> R. Guerra
> Phone/Cell: +1 202-905-2081
> Twitter: twitter.com/netfreedom
> Email: rguerra at privaterra.org
>
> On 2012-10-31, at 6:09 PM, Mawaki Chango wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> ... Still, I'm not sure I understand the process that got us
>> nominating people and end up with a name that was never mentioned here
>> (this is nothing personal). Were there other CS groups that had been
>> running the same nomination process? Is this at the discretion of the
>> Secretariat? And what happens now to the idea of collectively prepared
>> discourse or talking points, and to Milton's good start on that?
>>
>> Just asking.
>>
>> mawaki
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 8:58 PM, Nnenna <nne75 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I think Carlos and Valentina make a great pair.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> N
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nnenna  Nwakanma |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG  |  Consultants
>>> Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development
>>> Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471 |Mob. 07416820
>>> Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065| http://www.nnenna.org
>>> nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 | nnennaorg.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Carlos A. Afonso <ca at cafonso.ca>
>>> To: william.drake at uzh.ch; glaser at cgi.br
>>> Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 8:32 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Re: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
>>>
>>> :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Carlos A. Afonso
>>>
>>> William Drake <william.drake at uzh.ch> escreveu:
>>> My apologies to Carlos, I cut and paste from someone else's email
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 31, 2012, at 8:05 PM, Hartmut Richard Glaser wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Correct name is => Carlos Alberto Afonso ...
>>>
>>> ==========================================
>>> On 31/10/12 17:04, William Drake wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> The secretariat has invited Carlos Alfonso for the opening session and
>>> Valentina Pellizzer for the closing session.
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>> On Oct 31, 2012, at 10:37 AM, Izumi AIZU wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear list,
>>>
>>> Sorry for not following this up earlier. Just too many things to do.
>>>
>>> Though I said we may run a poll, I guess Carlos is already our de facto
>>> speaker,
>>> and Nnnena seems to have received good support and fulfills the gender
>>> balance
>>> and also from developing region.
>>>
>>> And as Ginger rightly suggested both speakers will take up the talking
>>> points
>>> into their text, with some degree of, of course, their own words to be
>>> added.
>>>
>>> May I ask you if this is our rough consensus?
>>>
>>> Many thanks,
>>>
>>> izumi
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2012/10/11 William Drake <william.drake at uzh.ch>:
>>>
>>> it's what they're sending registrants
>>>
>>> On Oct 11, 2012, at 8:42 AM, Katy P wrote:
>>>
>>> What? When did this happen?
>>>
>>> On Oct 11, 2012 8:24 AM, "William Drake" <william.drake at uzh.ch> wrote:
>>>
>>> In light of the host country's jaw dropping decision to publicly
>>> disseminate all participants' passport numbers, I hope whoever we have
>>> speaking in the opening an closing will emphasize the centrality of
>>> personal
>>> privacy protection in Internet governance.
>>>
>>> Best
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>> On Oct 10, 2012, at 5:10 AM, Nnenna wrote:
>>>
>>> +1 On each of the points below.  I am currently in the Côte d'Ivoire
>>> Internet Governance Forum and my drafting capacity is limited.  However,
>>> I
>>> would like to see a line that extends "Multistakeholderism" down to
>>> active
>>> national participation of all stakeholders. AFAIK, in as much as in some
>>> countries, the government is weighing in, in ways that may appear
>>> overbearing, in others, the decision-makers are actually note interested
>>> or
>>> think it is an NGO thing.
>>>
>>> Can we have a "Development Agenda" paragraph? I am also thinking that
>>> "Participation" may also need to be a paragraph of its own
>>>
>>> Best
>>>
>>> Nnenna
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nnenna  Nwakanma |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG
>>>  |  Consultants
>>> Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development
>>> Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471 |Mob. 07416820
>>> Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065| http://www.nnenna.org/
>>> nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 | nnennaorg.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu>
>>> To: 'Ginger Paque' <ginger at paque.net>; "governance at lists.igcaucus.org"
>>> <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 9:07 PM
>>> Subject: RE: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
>>>
>>>
>>> From: gpaque at gmail.com [mailto:gpaque at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Ginger
>>> Paque
>>>
>>> I think that both points are important... I would say 'in addition to'
>>> not
>>> 'rather than'. Whom we choose sends a signal as sometimes as significant
>>> as
>>> their words, and we tend to know their general positions as well as
>>> speaking
>>> abilities when we nominate them.
>>>
>>> Ginger and colleagues:
>>> Yes, of course it is "in addition to" not "rather than" - but has there
>>> been any substantive discussion yet? Frankly I think what they say is
>>> more
>>> important than who we choose, but agree that in some cases "the medium is
>>> the message."  At any rate we are long on "who" and rather short on
>>> "what"
>>> at the moment, so…
>>>
>>> let me throw out three short statements on issues that I passionately
>>> believe should be addressed. In doing so, I will make an attempt to
>>> address
>>> them in a way that takes into account the differences among us and hope
>>> others do so in the same spirit. Other candidate topics would include
>>> IPR,
>>> development…I defer to others there.
>>>
>>> Human rights
>>> CS believes that the absence of gatekeepers and the open, global
>>> communication enabled by the Internet realizes the promise of Article 19
>>> of
>>> the UN UDHR. To erect (national) legal barriers to the free flow of
>>> information is a bad idea and contrary to the individual human right to
>>> freedom of expression. We therefore oppose efforts to create "national
>>> Internets," or to block and filter internet access in ways that deny
>>> individuals access to applications, content and services of their choice.
>>> All attempts to deem certain forms of communication and information
>>> illegal
>>> and remove them must follow established, transparent processes of law and
>>> should not involve prior restraint.
>>>
>>> Security and Securitization
>>> CS opposes efforts to militarize the Internet, or any actions that would
>>> foster a destructive and wasteful cyber arms race among governments
>>> and/or
>>> private actors. We consider the surreptitious use of exploits and malware
>>> for surveillance or attacks to be criminal regardless of whether they are
>>> deployed by governments, private corporations or organized criminals. We
>>> are
>>> skeptical of efforts to subordinate the design and use of information and
>>> communication technology to "national security" agendas. We believe that
>>> Internet security will be achieved primarily at the operational level and
>>> that national security and military agendas often work against rather
>>> than
>>> for users' security needs.
>>>
>>> Multistakeholderism
>>> Global governance institutions should not be restricted to states, so CS
>>> welcomes the additional participation in global policy making that
>>> multi-stakeholder processes provide. But CS cautions that
>>> multi-stakeholder
>>> participation is not an end in itself.  Opening up global governance
>>> institutions to additional voices from civil society and business does
>>> not
>>> by itself ensure that individual rights are adequately protected or that
>>> the
>>> best substantive policies are developed and enforced. In the informal
>>> spaces
>>> created by MS institutions, it is possible that powerful governmental and
>>> corporate actors can make deals contrary to the interests of Internet
>>> users.
>>> MS processes must incorporate and institutionalize concepts of due
>>> process,
>>> separation of powers and user's inalienable civil and political rights.
>>>
>>> Milton L. Mueller
>>> Professor, Syracuse University School of Information Studies
>>> Internet Governance Project
>>> http://blog.internetgovernance.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>   governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>   http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>   http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>   http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>   governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>   http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>   http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>   http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Izumi Aizu <<
>>>
>>>         Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
>>>
>>>          Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
>>>                                 Japan
>>>                                * * * * *
>>>          << Writing the Future of the History >>
>>>                               www.anr.org
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>
>
> --
> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
> P.O. Box 17862
> Suva
> Fiji
>
> Twitter: @SalanietaT
> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>



-- 
                        >> Izumi Aizu <<

          Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo

           Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
                                  Japan
                                 * * * * *
           << Writing the Future of the History >>
                                www.anr.org

-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From rguerra at privaterra.org  Wed Oct 31 22:55:24 2012
From: rguerra at privaterra.org (Robert Guerra)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 22:55:24 -0400
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <CA+YNoKjSLcC-OYZt_hsxfXzYP+N1hbRYy_0cCZLBRjV5rVh1Vg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6htvq562u9xwndojpff6tjwa.1351715549740@email.android.com> <1351717131.30525.YahooMailNeo@web120102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <CACTo+v8pGfPPAPGyryUm_rd0zTkRx4OzhT0ZTNLi2h2Kh+=pxw@mail.gmail.com> <77843C2D-FF1E-4FF7-BA2C-5199F3622B4E@privaterra.org> <CAJwbTiBvqYdhV9QRAtMxTVssmBezD_Li5wVvAKHVXWCRpm2mmA@mail.gmail.com> <1351723363.30961.YahooMailNeo@web160506.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <CA+YNoKjSLcC-OYZt_hsxfXzYP+N1hbRYy_0cCZLBRjV5rVh1Vg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E32D2C05-5152-4329-968E-5D1F2ED54287@privaterra.org>

Let's be clear,  I don't have an issue with the people that were selected. Just the process, or lack of one,  that was used.

Suggest we focus on a way to develop a far more transparent and in dependant process next time

Robert


--
R. Guerra
Phone/Cell: +1 202-905-2081
Twitter: twitter.com/netfreedom 
Email: rguerra at privaterra.org

On 2012-10-31, at 9:30 PM, Izumi AIZU wrote:

> It is in part my fault for not wrapping up the discussion quickly, to
> select the speakers
> and liaise to the Secretariat. So sorry about this delay.
> 
> I guess IGF Secretariat chose one from IGC members and another one from non-IGC.
> 
> They had indicated that the speaker does not have to be IGC member per se.
> 
> IGC is not the sole representative of the Civil Society for IGF.
> 
> Yet I believe Valentina will also  be an excellent speaker, especially from
> Central/East Europe.
> 
> 
> izumi
> 
> 
> 
> 2012/11/1 shaila mistry <shailam at yahoo.com>:
>> me too :)
>> 
>> The journey begins sooner than you anticipate !
>> ..................... the renaissance of composure !
>> 
>> ________________________________
>> From: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com>
>> 
>> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Robert Guerra <rguerra at privaterra.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 3:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
>> 
>> yes it took me by surprise as well Mawaki. :O
>> 
>> Sala
>> 
>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:29 AM, Robert Guerra <rguerra at privaterra.org>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> To be honest, in my opinion, the process to select speakers for the main
>> opening session has seemed ad-hoc at best.
>> 
>> Would have expected a far more deliberate process along the lines that the
>> caucus reviews, recommends and nominates persons for the MAG.
>> 
>> Robert
>> --
>> R. Guerra
>> Phone/Cell: +1 202-905-2081
>> Twitter: twitter.com/netfreedom
>> Email: rguerra at privaterra.org
>> 
>> On 2012-10-31, at 6:09 PM, Mawaki Chango wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> ... Still, I'm not sure I understand the process that got us
>>> nominating people and end up with a name that was never mentioned here
>>> (this is nothing personal). Were there other CS groups that had been
>>> running the same nomination process? Is this at the discretion of the
>>> Secretariat? And what happens now to the idea of collectively prepared
>>> discourse or talking points, and to Milton's good start on that?
>>> 
>>> Just asking.
>>> 
>>> mawaki
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 8:58 PM, Nnenna <nne75 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I think Carlos and Valentina make a great pair.
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers
>>>> 
>>>> N
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Nnenna  Nwakanma |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG  |  Consultants
>>>> Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development
>>>> Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471 |Mob. 07416820
>>>> Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065| http://www.nnenna.org
>>>> nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 | nnennaorg.blogspot.com
>>>> 
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Carlos A. Afonso <ca at cafonso.ca>
>>>> To: william.drake at uzh.ch; glaser at cgi.br
>>>> Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 8:32 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Re: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
>>>> 
>>>> :)
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Carlos A. Afonso
>>>> 
>>>> William Drake <william.drake at uzh.ch> escreveu:
>>>> My apologies to Carlos, I cut and paste from someone else's email
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Oct 31, 2012, at 8:05 PM, Hartmut Richard Glaser wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Correct name is => Carlos Alberto Afonso ...
>>>> 
>>>> ==========================================
>>>> On 31/10/12 17:04, William Drake wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi
>>>> 
>>>> The secretariat has invited Carlos Alfonso for the opening session and
>>>> Valentina Pellizzer for the closing session.
>>>> 
>>>> Bill
>>>> 
>>>> On Oct 31, 2012, at 10:37 AM, Izumi AIZU wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Dear list,
>>>> 
>>>> Sorry for not following this up earlier. Just too many things to do.
>>>> 
>>>> Though I said we may run a poll, I guess Carlos is already our de facto
>>>> speaker,
>>>> and Nnnena seems to have received good support and fulfills the gender
>>>> balance
>>>> and also from developing region.
>>>> 
>>>> And as Ginger rightly suggested both speakers will take up the talking
>>>> points
>>>> into their text, with some degree of, of course, their own words to be
>>>> added.
>>>> 
>>>> May I ask you if this is our rough consensus?
>>>> 
>>>> Many thanks,
>>>> 
>>>> izumi
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 2012/10/11 William Drake <william.drake at uzh.ch>:
>>>> 
>>>> it's what they're sending registrants
>>>> 
>>>> On Oct 11, 2012, at 8:42 AM, Katy P wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> What? When did this happen?
>>>> 
>>>> On Oct 11, 2012 8:24 AM, "William Drake" <william.drake at uzh.ch> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> In light of the host country's jaw dropping decision to publicly
>>>> disseminate all participants' passport numbers, I hope whoever we have
>>>> speaking in the opening an closing will emphasize the centrality of
>>>> personal
>>>> privacy protection in Internet governance.
>>>> 
>>>> Best
>>>> 
>>>> Bill
>>>> 
>>>> On Oct 10, 2012, at 5:10 AM, Nnenna wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> +1 On each of the points below.  I am currently in the Côte d'Ivoire
>>>> Internet Governance Forum and my drafting capacity is limited.  However,
>>>> I
>>>> would like to see a line that extends "Multistakeholderism" down to
>>>> active
>>>> national participation of all stakeholders. AFAIK, in as much as in some
>>>> countries, the government is weighing in, in ways that may appear
>>>> overbearing, in others, the decision-makers are actually note interested
>>>> or
>>>> think it is an NGO thing.
>>>> 
>>>> Can we have a "Development Agenda" paragraph? I am also thinking that
>>>> "Participation" may also need to be a paragraph of its own
>>>> 
>>>> Best
>>>> 
>>>> Nnenna
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Nnenna  Nwakanma |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG
>>>> |  Consultants
>>>> Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development
>>>> Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471 |Mob. 07416820
>>>> Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065| http://www.nnenna.org/
>>>> nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 | nnennaorg.blogspot.com
>>>> 
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu>
>>>> To: 'Ginger Paque' <ginger at paque.net>; "governance at lists.igcaucus.org"
>>>> <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 9:07 PM
>>>> Subject: RE: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> From: gpaque at gmail.com [mailto:gpaque at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Ginger
>>>> Paque
>>>> 
>>>> I think that both points are important... I would say 'in addition to'
>>>> not
>>>> 'rather than'. Whom we choose sends a signal as sometimes as significant
>>>> as
>>>> their words, and we tend to know their general positions as well as
>>>> speaking
>>>> abilities when we nominate them.
>>>> 
>>>> Ginger and colleagues:
>>>> Yes, of course it is "in addition to" not "rather than" - but has there
>>>> been any substantive discussion yet? Frankly I think what they say is
>>>> more
>>>> important than who we choose, but agree that in some cases "the medium is
>>>> the message."  At any rate we are long on "who" and rather short on
>>>> "what"
>>>> at the moment, so…
>>>> 
>>>> let me throw out three short statements on issues that I passionately
>>>> believe should be addressed. In doing so, I will make an attempt to
>>>> address
>>>> them in a way that takes into account the differences among us and hope
>>>> others do so in the same spirit. Other candidate topics would include
>>>> IPR,
>>>> development…I defer to others there.
>>>> 
>>>> Human rights
>>>> CS believes that the absence of gatekeepers and the open, global
>>>> communication enabled by the Internet realizes the promise of Article 19
>>>> of
>>>> the UN UDHR. To erect (national) legal barriers to the free flow of
>>>> information is a bad idea and contrary to the individual human right to
>>>> freedom of expression. We therefore oppose efforts to create "national
>>>> Internets," or to block and filter internet access in ways that deny
>>>> individuals access to applications, content and services of their choice.
>>>> All attempts to deem certain forms of communication and information
>>>> illegal
>>>> and remove them must follow established, transparent processes of law and
>>>> should not involve prior restraint.
>>>> 
>>>> Security and Securitization
>>>> CS opposes efforts to militarize the Internet, or any actions that would
>>>> foster a destructive and wasteful cyber arms race among governments
>>>> and/or
>>>> private actors. We consider the surreptitious use of exploits and malware
>>>> for surveillance or attacks to be criminal regardless of whether they are
>>>> deployed by governments, private corporations or organized criminals. We
>>>> are
>>>> skeptical of efforts to subordinate the design and use of information and
>>>> communication technology to "national security" agendas. We believe that
>>>> Internet security will be achieved primarily at the operational level and
>>>> that national security and military agendas often work against rather
>>>> than
>>>> for users' security needs.
>>>> 
>>>> Multistakeholderism
>>>> Global governance institutions should not be restricted to states, so CS
>>>> welcomes the additional participation in global policy making that
>>>> multi-stakeholder processes provide. But CS cautions that
>>>> multi-stakeholder
>>>> participation is not an end in itself.  Opening up global governance
>>>> institutions to additional voices from civil society and business does
>>>> not
>>>> by itself ensure that individual rights are adequately protected or that
>>>> the
>>>> best substantive policies are developed and enforced. In the informal
>>>> spaces
>>>> created by MS institutions, it is possible that powerful governmental and
>>>> corporate actors can make deals contrary to the interests of Internet
>>>> users.
>>>> MS processes must incorporate and institutionalize concepts of due
>>>> process,
>>>> separation of powers and user's inalienable civil and political rights.
>>>> 
>>>> Milton L. Mueller
>>>> Professor, Syracuse University School of Information Studies
>>>> Internet Governance Project
>>>> http://blog.internetgovernance.org
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>>  governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>>  http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>> 
>>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>>  http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>>  http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>> 
>>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>>  governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>>  http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>> 
>>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>>  http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>>  http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>> 
>>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>>   governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>>   http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>> 
>>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>>   http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>>   http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>> 
>>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>> 
>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>>   governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>>   http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>> 
>>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>>   http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>>   http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>> 
>>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> 
>>>> Izumi Aizu <<
>>>> 
>>>>        Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
>>>> 
>>>>         Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
>>>>                                Japan
>>>>                               * * * * *
>>>>         << Writing the Future of the History >>
>>>>                              www.anr.org
>>>> 
>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>>   governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>>   http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>> 
>>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>>   http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>>   http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>> 
>>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>>   governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>>   http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>> 
>>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>>   http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>>   http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>> 
>>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>>    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>> 
>>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>>    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>> 
>>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>> 
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>> 
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> 
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> 
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
>> P.O. Box 17862
>> Suva
>> Fiji
>> 
>> Twitter: @SalanietaT
>> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
>> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> 
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> 
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> 
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> 
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
>>> Izumi Aizu <<
> 
>          Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
> 
>           Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
>                                  Japan
>                                 * * * * *
>           << Writing the Future of the History >>
>                                www.anr.org
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From nhklein at gmx.net  Tue Oct 30 21:47:55 2012
From: nhklein at gmx.net (Norbert Klein)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 08:47:55 +0700
Subject: [governance] ITRs
In-Reply-To: <8A9113EA-A478-4093-94BE-4A1A8C6B4910@virtualized.org>
References: <508E3DFE.90606@itforchange.net> <508F7E73.70307@cavebear.com> <8A9113EA-A478-4093-94BE-4A1A8C6B4910@virtualized.org>
Message-ID: <5090834B.4020409@gmx.net>

On 10/30/2012 10:48 PM, [somebody] wrote:
> wonk code
Have mercy with us who are still not native speakers of the language of 
the Angels=Anglish-English:

= =
*wonk*
Concise Oxford English Dictionary © 2008 Oxford University Press:
wonk/wɒŋk/
▶noun N. Amer. informal, derogatory

  * 1 a studious or hard-working person.

    ■ (often policy wonk) a person who takes an excessive interest in
    minor details of political policy.

  * 2 nautical slang an incompetent or inexperienced sailor, especially
    a naval cadet.

– derivatives
*wonkish *adjective.
– origin 1920s: of unknown origin.
= =

Do I now understand this sentence:

"I suspect this is policy wonk code for national-level 
control/administration of RPKI/BGPSEC."

Somewhat. - Not really.


Norbert Klein
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121031/0c4c4421/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From parminder at itforchange.net  Mon Oct  1 03:23:34 2012
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2012 12:53:34 +0530
Subject: [governance] Google's officer with detention order in brasil
In-Reply-To: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com> <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org> <CACAaNxhbB9GNvropAXac41J0vCeG7ofX9dRJrSLFKcjMpbhSbQ@mail.gmail.com> <CA+=oXBJVT+n9A9uKSeh5qu3ox+Qw99xSTci+s6bSXaYnWC1_gA@mail.gmail.com> <02350A3A-0235-4E7A-B1D0-5D6ED84AEE4C@safernet.org.br> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <506944F6.1090501@itforchange.net>


On Friday 28 September 2012 10:01 PM, Milton L Mueller wrote:
>
> What about the users? Shouldn’t they have a say in the rules?
>
Milton

They should use democratic processes, and if the processes are not fine, 
fight to have the right processes. This is the history of struggles for 
democracy, which continue, although a new neoliberal discourse has been 
trying to confuse them through concepts like users rights (whats wrong 
with people's rights!), multistakeholderism (whats wrong with 
participatory democracy), internet exceptionalism and so on.
>
> Are you proposing to re-territorialize the Internet so that national 
> governments can have full authority?
>

You of course realise that US gov has full authority over its own 
digital space, and considerable authority over that of other countries. 
Thus it may be more useful to direct civil society fire power where the 
illegitimate concentration of power lies.

However, even if one is to take your hint, and seek non-national global 
law for the global Internet (and I understand, at least hope, that you 
still are believer in the rule of law unlike the naive anarchist view 
that seem to dominate a certain techie mindset), I have failed to see 
any proposals from you for framing global laws for, what we both agree 
is and should be preserved as a, global Internet. You have mostly opined 
that, for instance in case of ICANN oversight, US laws being applied to 
the world is rather ok. You oppose internationalism for global law 
making, and have neither proposed any evolutionary improvements to 
internationalism(as ITfC has proposed), or, as I far I know, even any 
radical improvements.

Challenging application of national laws on the Internet in developing 
countries (the fact of a particular law being bad is a very different 
issues and should be dealt by democratic and civil society processes) 
and instead advocating application of US globally does not make for a 
very convincing case.


> snip

> Google or any other multinational social media provider isn’t perfect. 
> But terms of use constitute a private ordering that users can opt out 
> of if they don’t use the service. Who in Brazil (or any other country) 
> gets to opt out of dumb laws and dumb judges?
>

You are telling people to submit to a corporatist ordering of our social 
systems.  'you can opt out if you wish' is often an insulting 
proposition by those who control to the controlled, when structural 
realities make such a proposition rather meaningless. Like those calling 
for a fair and just globalisation being told, well, if you dont like it, 
you can opt out of globalisation as it is occurring now.

On the other hand, I do understand that in the new neoliberal global 
world order, their is this new political direction of richer classes in 
most countries (especially, but not only, developing countries) to seek 
to opt out of the democratic order they are 'subject to' in favour of a 
new post-democratic global order whose political capital lies in the US, 
because whether they like it or not, any new system still needs some 
kind of political coercive authority, for instance to make those early 
dawn knocks to catch people doing things as dangerous as sharing video 
files.

Also, that reminds me, what about the desire of non US people to 'opt 
out of dumb laws and judges' of the US.... like in the case of their 
involvement in ICANN oversight/ interference... to those who want such 
an opt out, you have said that US laws and judges are good and should 
continue to overlord over the ICANN (for whatever 'minimalist' areas 
that you lay down). When you want Brazilians to be able to opt out of 
Brazilian dumb laws and judges, your lack of sympathy for non USians to 
seek opting out of the dumb US laws and judges' supervision of ICANN, 
when they are not even 'formally' accountable other than to the US 
public,  looks rather self-contradictory.

parminder
>
> *From:*governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org 
> [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] *On Behalf Of *Thiago 
> Tavares Nunes de Oliveira
> *Sent:* Friday, September 28, 2012 11:07 AM
> *To:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Ivar A. M. Hartmann
> *Subject:* Re: [governance] Google's officer with detention order in 
> brasil
>
> Em 28/09/2012, às 10:35, Ivar A. M. Hartmann escreveu:
>
>
>
> For those overlooking the key issue in this and similar cases in 
> Brazil, it is not whether Google wants to secure its holding as a 
> market leader or ensure its profit. The key issue is free speech.
>
> No, is it NOT. The key issue is about power, as highlighted on this 
> Der Spiegel article: 
> http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/how-google-lobbies-german-government-over-internet-regulation-a-857654.html
>
> The key issue on democracy countries like Brazil is:
>
> "who sets the rules in this business: Google, with its terms of use, 
> or the government and courts?"
>
> I remember you that this was NOT the first time that the chief of 
> Google's office in Brazil faces criminal charges for not comply with 
> brazilians court orders. The former Google Brazil president (now 
> Facebook VP for Latin America) was indicted in 2006/07 for not comply 
> with dozens of brazilians court orders that demanded Orkut users data 
> to assist brazilian law enforcement authorities on child sexual abuse 
> and neonazi cases: 
> http://www.prsp.mpf.gov.br/prdc/sala-de-imprensa/noticias_prdc/noticia-3294 
> (english auto translation: http://bit.ly/S62POw)
>
> ps: an english background reading on this case is avaliable on WSJ 
> website: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119273558149563775.html
>
>
> -- 
> Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo sistema de antivírus e
> acredita-se estar livre de perigo.
>


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121001/695651e1/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de  Mon Oct  1 03:52:32 2012
From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang=22?=)
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2012 09:52:32 +0200
Subject: [governance] Principles
References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com>
 <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org>
 <CACAaNxhbB9GNvropAXac41J0vCeG7ofX9dRJrSLFKcjMpbhSbQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+=oXBJVT+n9A9uKSeh5qu3ox+Qw99xSTci+s6bSXaYnWC1_gA@mail.gmail.com>
 <02350A3A-0235-4E7A-B1D0-5D6ED84AEE4C@safernet.org.br>
 <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
 <506944F6.1090501@itforchange.net>
Message-ID:  <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3C5@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>

Parminder:
multistakeholderism (whats wrong with participatory democracy?)
 
Wolfgang:
Multistakeholderism *IS* the highest form of participatory democracy
 
Parminder: 
improvements to internationalism & national laws
 
Wolfgang:
To errect (national) legal barriers for the free flow of information among people is a bad idea and contrary to individual human right to freedom of expression. Governments have an obligation under international law to guarantee access to and the distribution of information "regardless of frontiers". To undermine the borderless nature of the Internet and to introduce a system for Internet communication similar to global travel arrangements, (where you need a permission (visa) to leave or enter a country) brings us back into the cold war of the 20th century and would have bad and sad economic and social consequences in particular for individuals in developing countries. 
 
In this context I repeat my proposal to start in Baku with the work on a global "Multistakeholder Framework of Committment" on Internet Governance and Internet Freedom (FoC) which could take on board all the ideas and proposals expressed in the 20+ Internet Governance Principles declarations, resolutions and guidelines which has been adopted in the last two years by IBSA, Shanghai, OECD, CoE, OSCE, UNESCO and numerous non-governmental platforms, including the IGF Dynamic Coalition in Rights and Principles. The message from Baku should be to invite the MAG to form a WGIG like multistakeholder group of experts (during its February 2013 meeting in Paris) and to draft until the 8th IGF a first outline with the aim to have a substantial draft for high level discussion at the 9th IGF in 2014 and to adopt such a FoC by acclamation at the 10th IGF in 2015. 
 
wolfgang

-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From ajp at glocom.ac.jp  Mon Oct  1 04:17:46 2012
From: ajp at glocom.ac.jp (Adam Peake)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 17:17:46 +0900
Subject: [governance] Principles
In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3C5@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com>
	<50656139.4070604@cis-india.org>
	<CACAaNxhbB9GNvropAXac41J0vCeG7ofX9dRJrSLFKcjMpbhSbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+=oXBJVT+n9A9uKSeh5qu3ox+Qw99xSTci+s6bSXaYnWC1_gA@mail.gmail.com>
	<02350A3A-0235-4E7A-B1D0-5D6ED84AEE4C@safernet.org.br>
	<855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
	<506944F6.1090501@itforchange.net>
	<2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3C5@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
Message-ID: <CAFabd1JRjsfv0KvvyZhe=PHxL+1LPTh3azc5_JSOY03OJ32gGA@mail.gmail.com>

Wouldn't this be something to build into the WSIS +10 review rather
than the IGF alone?

Best,

Adam



On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 4:52 PM, "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang"
<wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de> wrote:
> Parminder:
> multistakeholderism (whats wrong with participatory democracy?)
>
> Wolfgang:
> Multistakeholderism *IS* the highest form of participatory democracy
>
> Parminder:
> improvements to internationalism & national laws
>
> Wolfgang:
> To errect (national) legal barriers for the free flow of information among people is a bad idea and contrary to individual human right to freedom of expression. Governments have an obligation under international law to guarantee access to and the distribution of information "regardless of frontiers". To undermine the borderless nature of the Internet and to introduce a system for Internet communication similar to global travel arrangements, (where you need a permission (visa) to leave or enter a country) brings us back into the cold war of the 20th century and would have bad and sad economic and social consequences in particular for individuals in developing countries.
>
> In this context I repeat my proposal to start in Baku with the work on a global "Multistakeholder Framework of Committment" on Internet Governance and Internet Freedom (FoC) which could take on board all the ideas and proposals expressed in the 20+ Internet Governance Principles declarations, resolutions and guidelines which has been adopted in the last two years by IBSA, Shanghai, OECD, CoE, OSCE, UNESCO and numerous non-governmental platforms, including the IGF Dynamic Coalition in Rights and Principles. The message from Baku should be to invite the MAG to form a WGIG like multistakeholder group of experts (during its February 2013 meeting in Paris) and to draft until the 8th IGF a first outline with the aim to have a substantial draft for high level discussion at the 9th IGF in 2014 and to adopt such a FoC by acclamation at the 10th IGF in 2015.
>
> wolfgang
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>

-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From jlfullsack at orange.fr  Mon Oct  1 04:51:16 2012
From: jlfullsack at orange.fr (Jean-Louis FULLSACK)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 10:51:16 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [governance] Principles
In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3C5@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com>
 <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org>
 <CACAaNxhbB9GNvropAXac41J0vCeG7ofX9dRJrSLFKcjMpbhSbQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+=oXBJVT+n9A9uKSeh5qu3ox+Qw99xSTci+s6bSXaYnWC1_gA@mail.gmail.com>
 <02350A3A-0235-4E7A-B1D0-5D6ED84AEE4C@safernet.org.br>
 <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
 <506944F6.1090501@itforchange.net>
 <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3C5@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
Message-ID: <1025562875.8772.1349081476302.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f27>

Whoow !

 

Wolfgang Wrote

 

Message du 01/10/12 09:52
> De : ""Kleinwächter, Wolfgang"" 
> A : governance at lists.igcaucus.org, "parminder" , governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> Copie à : 
> Objet : [governance] Principles
> 
> Parminder:
> multistakeholderism (whats wrong with participatory democracy?)
> 
> Wolfgang:
> Multistakeholderism *IS* the highest form of participatory democracy
> 
> Parminder: 
> improvements to internationalism & national laws
> 
> Wolfgang:
> To errect (national) legal barriers for the free flow of information among people is a bad idea and contrary to individual human right to freedom of expression. Governments have an obligation under international law to guarantee access to and the distribution of information "regardless of frontiers". To undermine the borderless nature of the Internet and to introduce a system for Internet communication similar to global travel arrangements, (where you need a permission (visa) to leave or enter a country) brings us back into the cold war of the 20th century and would have bad and sad economic and social consequences in particular for individuals in developing countries. 
> 
> In this context I repeat my proposal to start in Baku with the work on a global "Multistakeholder Framework of Committment" on Internet Governance and Internet Freedom (FoC) which could take on board all the ideas and proposals expressed in the 20+ Internet Governance Principles declarations, resolutions and guidelines which has been adopted in the last two years by IBSA, Shanghai, OECD, CoE, OSCE, UNESCO and numerous non-governmental platforms, including the IGF Dynamic Coalition in Rights and Principles. The message from Baku should be to invite the MAG to form a WGIG like multistakeholder group of experts (during its February 2013 meeting in Paris) and to draft until the 8th IGF a first outline with the aim to have a substantial draft for high level discussion at the 9th IGF in 2014 and to adopt such a FoC by acclamation at the 10th IGF in 2015. 
> 
> wolfgang
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121001/4f3b60cf/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de  Mon Oct  1 05:52:49 2012
From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang=22?=)
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2012 11:52:49 +0200
Subject: AW: [governance] Principles
References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com>
 <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org>
 <CACAaNxhbB9GNvropAXac41J0vCeG7ofX9dRJrSLFKcjMpbhSbQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+=oXBJVT+n9A9uKSeh5qu3ox+Qw99xSTci+s6bSXaYnWC1_gA@mail.gmail.com>
 <02350A3A-0235-4E7A-B1D0-5D6ED84AEE4C@safernet.org.br>
 <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
 <506944F6.1090501@itforchange.net>
 <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3C5@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
 <1025562875.8772.1349081476302.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f27>
Message-ID:  <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3CE@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>

Hi Jean Louis,
 
like always: if you try to be short your produce misunderstandings. My reference point is the "round table" philosophy we had  in 1989 after the collapse of the German Democratic Repuiblic and which was - at least in my eyes - a very high form of a participatory democracy. This was killed within months by our west German brothers who said that such an involvement of all stakeholders is not needed in a representative democracy. WSIS has proofed that the involvement of non-govenrmental stakeholders, in particular civil society, in affairs which had been so far negotiated only by the representatives of governments, is not a bad idea. 
 
The multistakeholder model offers an option to bring all parties on a equal footing into the process of a PDP, case by case. I agree that the existing models (IGF, ICANN) are far away from the ideal, but they are first steps into the right direction. The alternative - back to the intergovernmental treaty system - would be in my eyes a step backwards. This is not an argument against the intergovernmental treaty system (where needed), we need international law and the Charter of the United Nations with its jus cogens principles is a good document. But I see that such a intergovernmental treaty system needs additional (external) checks and balances and has today be embedded into a multistakeholder environment.  The WGIG definition speaks about "shared decision making procedures". At the end this will lead us to a discussion about the meaing of national (governmental) sovereignty in a globalised Internet based world. 
 
It would make sense to start a discussion how to enhance our understanding of "sovereingty" and "self-determination" (two jus cogens principles from the UN Charter) in the Internet age. How a "shared sovereignty" (some people call it "collaborative sovereignty") could look like? Is this only for governments or should civil society and other Non-governmental stakeholders be part of this enhanced understanding of sovereignty? 
 
Wolfgang

 
________________________________

Von: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org im Auftrag von Jean-Louis FULLSACK
Gesendet: Mo 01.10.2012 10:51
An: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Kleinwächter, Wolfgang; parminder
Betreff: re: [governance] Principles



Whoow !

 

Wolfgang Wrote

 

<Wolfgang:
<Multistakeholderism *IS* the highest form of participatory democracy

 

What's the next step ? Maybe

Multistakeholderism will BE democracy 

 

Not for me, neither in its current "version" nor in its possible future

 

Jean-Louis Fullsack





	> Message du 01/10/12 09:52
	> De : ""Kleinwächter, Wolfgang"" 
	> A : governance at lists.igcaucus.org, "parminder" , governance at lists.igcaucus.org
	> Copie à : 
	> Objet : [governance] Principles
	> 
	> Parminder:
	> multistakeholderism (whats wrong with participatory democracy?)
	> 
	> Wolfgang:
	> Multistakeholderism *IS* the highest form of participatory democracy
	> 
	> Parminder: 
	> improvements to internationalism & national laws
	> 
	> Wolfgang:
	> To errect (national) legal barriers for the free flow of information among people is a bad idea and contrary to individual human right to freedom of expression. Governments have an obligation under international law to guarantee access to and the distribution of information "regardless of frontiers". To undermine the borderless nature of the Internet and to introduce a system for Internet communication similar to global travel arrangements, (where you need a permission (visa) to leave or enter a country) brings us back into the cold war of the 20th century and would have bad and sad economic and social consequences in particular for individuals in developing countries. 
	> 
	> In this context I repeat my proposal to start in Baku with the work on a global "Multistakeholder Framework of Committment" on Internet Governance and Internet Freedom (FoC) which could take on board all the ideas and proposals expressed in the 20+ Internet Governance Principles declarations, resolutions and guidelines which has been adopted in the last two years by IBSA, Shanghai, OECD, CoE, OSCE, UNESCO and numerous non-governmental platforms, including the IGF Dynamic Coalition in Rights and Principles. The message from Baku should be to invite the MAG to form a WGIG like multistakeholder group of experts (during its February 2013 meeting in Paris) and to draft until the 8th IGF a first outline with the aim to have a substantial draft for high level discussion at the 9th IGF in 2014 and to adopt such a FoC by acclamation at the 10th IGF in 2015. 
	> 
	> wolfgang
	> 
	> ____________________________________________________________
	> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
	> governance at lists.igcaucus.org
	> To be removed from the list, visit:
	> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
	> 
	> For all other list information and functions, see:
	> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
	> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
	> http://www.igcaucus..org/
	> 
	> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
	> 


-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From gurstein at gmail.com  Mon Oct  1 08:59:20 2012
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 08:59:20 -0400
Subject: [governance] Principles
In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3CE@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com> <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org> <CACAaNxhbB9GNvropAXac41J0vCeG7ofX9dRJrSLFKcjMpbhSbQ@mail.gmail.com> <CA+=oXBJVT+n9A9uKSeh5qu3ox+Qw99xSTci+s6bSXaYnWC1_gA@mail.gmail.com> <02350A3A-0235-4E7A-B1D0-5D6ED84AEE4C@safernet.org.br> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <506944F6.1090501@itforchange.net> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3C5@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <1025562875.8772.1349081476302.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f27> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3CE@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
Message-ID: <04e201cd9fd4$93de6080$bb9b2180$@gmail.com>

Wolfgang and all,

I`ve just had an opportunity to observe at somewhat close hand a series of
multi-stakeholder processes at work (in Agriculture planning) in several
African countries... I was quite impressed for a number of reasons which I
won`t go into here (I`m currently working on the report...

However, one conclusion that I would draw is that while
`multi-stakeholderism` is in at least some instances very effective as an
inclusive, let`s say `participative` management tool it is very far from
what I, or I think almost anyone would call ``democratic`` (unless, as in
some I think, quite perverse instances, one chooses to conflate the notions
of management with democracy).

The problem is that while multi-stakeholderism is inclusive of interests it
is not necessarily accountable or representative of or for those interests.
So for example, while a national or reagional farmers` union might be a very
effective stakeholder representative of the interests of small holder
farmers the precise process of accountability and representivity is in many
instances a very open question subject to for example, the personailities of
individuals, literacy, access to media and information, political
interference etc. etc. The latter caveats do not preclude the former
affirmations but they do strongly bracket the degree to which such processes
could at all be called ``democratic`` at least within any definition of the
term that I (or I would expect most of us) would understand.

I think your broad objective of pursuing a framework for multi-stakeholder
governance of the Internet is a worthwhile one and one I hope to contribute
to in Baku, however, I think a useful outcome of that initiative would still
leave open the question of overall democractic governance and accountability
of the Internet.

Best,

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
[mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of "Kleinwächter,
Wolfgang"
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 5:53 AM
To: Jean-Louis FULLSACK; governance at lists.igcaucus.org
Subject: AW: [governance] Principles

Hi Jean Louis,
 
like always: if you try to be short your produce misunderstandings. My
reference point is the "round table" philosophy we had  in 1989 after the
collapse of the German Democratic Repuiblic and which was - at least in my
eyes - a very high form of a participatory democracy. This was killed within
months by our west German brothers who said that such an involvement of all
stakeholders is not needed in a representative democracy. WSIS has proofed
that the involvement of non-govenrmental stakeholders, in particular civil
society, in affairs which had been so far negotiated only by the
representatives of governments, is not a bad idea. 
 
The multistakeholder model offers an option to bring all parties on a equal
footing into the process of a PDP, case by case. I agree that the existing
models (IGF, ICANN) are far away from the ideal, but they are first steps
into the right direction. The alternative - back to the intergovernmental
treaty system - would be in my eyes a step backwards. This is not an
argument against the intergovernmental treaty system (where needed), we need
international law and the Charter of the United Nations with its jus cogens
principles is a good document. But I see that such a intergovernmental
treaty system needs additional (external) checks and balances and has today
be embedded into a multistakeholder environment.  The WGIG definition speaks
about "shared decision making procedures". At the end this will lead us to a
discussion about the meaing of national (governmental) sovereignty in a
globalised Internet based world. 
 
It would make sense to start a discussion how to enhance our understanding
of "sovereingty" and "self-determination" (two jus cogens principles from
the UN Charter) in the Internet age. How a "shared sovereignty" (some people
call it "collaborative sovereignty") could look like? Is this only for
governments or should civil society and other Non-governmental stakeholders
be part of this enhanced understanding of sovereignty? 
 
Wolfgang

 
________________________________

Von: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org im Auftrag von Jean-Louis
FULLSACK
Gesendet: Mo 01.10.2012 10:51
An: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Kleinwächter, Wolfgang; parminder
Betreff: re: [governance] Principles



Whoow !

 

Wolfgang Wrote

 

<Wolfgang:
<Multistakeholderism *IS* the highest form of participatory democracy

 

What's the next step ? Maybe

Multistakeholderism will BE democracy 

 

Not for me, neither in its current "version" nor in its possible future

 

Jean-Louis Fullsack





	> Message du 01/10/12 09:52
	> De : ""Kleinwächter, Wolfgang"" 
	> A : governance at lists.igcaucus.org, "parminder" ,
governance at lists.igcaucus.org
	> Copie à : 
	> Objet : [governance] Principles
	> 
	> Parminder:
	> multistakeholderism (whats wrong with participatory democracy?)
	> 
	> Wolfgang:
	> Multistakeholderism *IS* the highest form of participatory
democracy
	> 
	> Parminder: 
	> improvements to internationalism & national laws
	> 
	> Wolfgang:
	> To errect (national) legal barriers for the free flow of
information among people is a bad idea and contrary to individual human
right to freedom of expression. Governments have an obligation under
international law to guarantee access to and the distribution of information
"regardless of frontiers". To undermine the borderless nature of the
Internet and to introduce a system for Internet communication similar to
global travel arrangements, (where you need a permission (visa) to leave or
enter a country) brings us back into the cold war of the 20th century and
would have bad and sad economic and social consequences in particular for
individuals in developing countries. 
	> 
	> In this context I repeat my proposal to start in Baku with the
work on a global "Multistakeholder Framework of Committment" on Internet
Governance and Internet Freedom (FoC) which could take on board all the
ideas and proposals expressed in the 20+ Internet Governance Principles
declarations, resolutions and guidelines which has been adopted in the last
two years by IBSA, Shanghai, OECD, CoE, OSCE, UNESCO and numerous
non-governmental platforms, including the IGF Dynamic Coalition in Rights
and Principles. The message from Baku should be to invite the MAG to form a
WGIG like multistakeholder group of experts (during its February 2013
meeting in Paris) and to draft until the 8th IGF a first outline with the
aim to have a substantial draft for high level discussion at the 9th IGF in
2014 and to adopt such a FoC by acclamation at the 10th IGF in 2015. 
	> 
	> wolfgang
	> 
	> ____________________________________________________________
	> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
	> governance at lists.igcaucus.org
	> To be removed from the list, visit:
	> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
	> 
	> For all other list information and functions, see:
	> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
	> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
	> http://www.igcaucus..org/
	> 
	> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
	> 




-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From wolfgang.benedek at uni-graz.at  Mon Oct  1 09:16:13 2012
From: wolfgang.benedek at uni-graz.at (Benedek, Wolfgang (wolfgang.benedek@uni-graz.at))
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 15:16:13 +0200
Subject: [governance] Principles
In-Reply-To: <04e201cd9fd4$93de6080$bb9b2180$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CC8F62F6.235A1%wolfgang.benedek@uni-graz.at>

Dear all,

I'm another Wolfgang, who has written recently in a book on Human Rights
Diplomacy edited by Michael O'Flaherty et al. about
THE RELEVANCE OF THE MULTI-STAKEHOLDER APPROACHAND MULTI-TRACK DIPLOMACY
FOR HUMAN RIGHTS
DIPLOMACY.

Here is an excerpt:


Examples from PracticePractice shows that a number of states and
international and supranational
organisations have used both, the concept of multi-track diplomacy
and the notion of multi-stakeholder partnerships (and their
combination) in their eff orts to conduct a more comprehensive, holistic
and sustainable human rights diplomacy. Th e following examples
from practice show both the advantages and the potential pitfalls of
these approaches.
One example for the potential of the multi-stakeholder approach in
the context of the governance of the information society is the Internet
Governance Forum (IGF) that was established aft er the World Summit
on the Information Society in Geneva and Tunis in 2003 and 2005. Th e
IGF¹s mandate is to bring together all stakeholders ­ i.e. governments,
international organisations, business, NGOs and academics ­ to discuss
all issues concerning the information society on a yearly basis.11
Th e IGF cannot take decisions, nor even draft recommendations or
common conclusions.12 But the discussion process involving multiple
stakeholders generates results through creative, lively and open debate,
and through persuasive policy suggestions in reaction to common
problems. Th e disadvantage of the process is that results are less visible
and/or less clear-cut. Th ey are, nonetheless, quite real. IGF participants
0001326829,INDD_PG3298 252 7/19/2011 2:34:54 PM
multi-stakeholder approach and multi-trade diplomacy 253
13 Th ese include inter alia the yearly European Dialogue on Internet
Governance
(EuroDIG) (http://www.eurodig.org), the national Internet Governance Forum
in the
US in July 2010 
(http://igfusa.wordpress.com/2010/05/11/2010-igf-usa-at-georgetown
-law-center-in-dc-july-21), sub-regional forums, such as the one held in
Uganda in
September 2010 (http://www.eaigf.or.ke), and regional forums like the
Asian Forum in
June 2010 (http://rigf.asia) [all last accessed 3 December 2010].
14 See C. Malena, ŒStrategic Partnership: Challenges and Best Practices in
the
Management and Governance of Multi-Stakeholder Partnerships Involving UN
and
Civil Society Actors¹ (2004) Background paper for the Multi-Stakeholder
Workshop
on Partnerships and UN-Civil Society Relations, New York, available at:
http://
www.un.org/reform/civilsociety/pdfs/pocantino_booklet.pdf [last accessed
22 August
2010].
include key people of the information society who take the results
back to their institutions. Th is decentralised distribution of results by
diff erent members of the information society has contributed to the
success of the IGF. Apart from that, the successful formula of
multistakeholderism
as exemplifi ed by the IGF has been copied by regional
and even national internet governance forums.13
Strangely enough, representatives from the UN human rights system
were present in the person of the Special Rapporteur on Freedom
of Expression only since the IGF in Sharm el Sheikh in 2009, even
though stakeholders discuss a large number of human rights issues, for
example child protection or freedom of expression. Th e Council of
Europe by contrast actively uses the IGF as an opportunity to advance
its human rights agenda, and has participated with a large delegation
since the Forum was founded. Th e UN Educational, Scientifi c and
Cultural Organisation (UNESCO), the Organisation for Security and
Co-operation in Europe (OSCE), human rights NGOs and academics
specialised in human rights are also among the participants.
Th is experience raises the question of whether the multi-stakeholder
approach ­ and even multi-stakeholder partnerships which have a
stronger continuity ­ could also be used to increase the eff ectiveness
of UN human rights bodies, and to give a fresh momentum to the discussion
about strategies to be pursued in their reform process. Th is
discussion also resembles the debate on UN partnerships: a partnership-
based approach is relied on by the UN to strengthen their activities
in the fi elds of development and human rights in order to
implement goals more eff ectively.14
In the past, multi-track diplomacy has developed mainly in the context
of ensuring or restoring peace and security. Th e observation
underlying the multi-track approach is that diplomacy is not only a
0001326829,INDD_PG3298 253 7/19/2011 2:34:54 PM
254 wolfgang benedek
15 Compare the nine diff erent tracks of diplomacy identifi ed for
multi-track diplomacy:
Institute for Multi-Track Diplomacy, ŒWhat is Multi-Track Diplomacy?¹.
16 See Asia-Europe Foundation, Th e Th ird Informal ASEM Seminar on Human
Rights, Singapore 2000.
matter for diplomats, but also for a variety of other, oft en non-state
actors including civil society, individual citizens, NGOs, or church
groups like San Egidio in Rome, but also academic institutions or
business ­ with the role of the media deserving special attention.15
Th ink tanks can play a major role in multi-track diplomacy and other
institutions can make essential contributions through funding other
actors. In the context of human rights diplomacy, the EU practice of
funding a substantial research agenda in the fi eld of human rights is
worth mentioning. Fourteen diff erent consortia conducting EU-funded
research in the fi eld of human rights and democracy in the wider sense
met for the fi rst time in December 2008 in Brussels.


Best regards

Wolfgang

Univ.-Prof. Dr. Wolfgang Benedek
Institute for International Law and International Relations
University of Graz
Universitätsstraße 15, A4
A-8010 Graz
Tel.: +43/316/380/3411
Fax: +43/316/380/9455






Am 01.10.12 14:59 schrieb "michael gurstein" unter <gurstein at gmail.com>:

>Wolfgang and all,
>
>I`ve just had an opportunity to observe at somewhat close hand a series of
>multi-stakeholder processes at work (in Agriculture planning) in several
>African countries... I was quite impressed for a number of reasons which I
>won`t go into here (I`m currently working on the report...
>
>However, one conclusion that I would draw is that while
>`multi-stakeholderism` is in at least some instances very effective as an
>inclusive, let`s say `participative` management tool it is very far from
>what I, or I think almost anyone would call ``democratic`` (unless, as in
>some I think, quite perverse instances, one chooses to conflate the
>notions
>of management with democracy).
>
>The problem is that while multi-stakeholderism is inclusive of interests
>it
>is not necessarily accountable or representative of or for those
>interests.
>So for example, while a national or reagional farmers` union might be a
>very
>effective stakeholder representative of the interests of small holder
>farmers the precise process of accountability and representivity is in
>many
>instances a very open question subject to for example, the personailities
>of
>individuals, literacy, access to media and information, political
>interference etc. etc. The latter caveats do not preclude the former
>affirmations but they do strongly bracket the degree to which such
>processes
>could at all be called ``democratic`` at least within any definition of
>the
>term that I (or I would expect most of us) would understand.
>
>I think your broad objective of pursuing a framework for multi-stakeholder
>governance of the Internet is a worthwhile one and one I hope to
>contribute
>to in Baku, however, I think a useful outcome of that initiative would
>still
>leave open the question of overall democractic governance and
>accountability
>of the Internet.
>
>Best,
>
>Mike
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
>[mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of "Kleinwächter,
>Wolfgang"
>Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 5:53 AM
>To: Jean-Louis FULLSACK; governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>Subject: AW: [governance] Principles
>
>Hi Jean Louis,
> 
>like always: if you try to be short your produce misunderstandings. My
>reference point is the "round table" philosophy we had  in 1989 after the
>collapse of the German Democratic Repuiblic and which was - at least in my
>eyes - a very high form of a participatory democracy. This was killed
>within
>months by our west German brothers who said that such an involvement of
>all
>stakeholders is not needed in a representative democracy. WSIS has proofed
>that the involvement of non-govenrmental stakeholders, in particular civil
>society, in affairs which had been so far negotiated only by the
>representatives of governments, is not a bad idea.
> 
>The multistakeholder model offers an option to bring all parties on a
>equal
>footing into the process of a PDP, case by case. I agree that the existing
>models (IGF, ICANN) are far away from the ideal, but they are first steps
>into the right direction. The alternative - back to the intergovernmental
>treaty system - would be in my eyes a step backwards. This is not an
>argument against the intergovernmental treaty system (where needed), we
>need
>international law and the Charter of the United Nations with its jus
>cogens
>principles is a good document. But I see that such a intergovernmental
>treaty system needs additional (external) checks and balances and has
>today
>be embedded into a multistakeholder environment.  The WGIG definition
>speaks
>about "shared decision making procedures". At the end this will lead us
>to a
>discussion about the meaing of national (governmental) sovereignty in a
>globalised Internet based world.
> 
>It would make sense to start a discussion how to enhance our understanding
>of "sovereingty" and "self-determination" (two jus cogens principles from
>the UN Charter) in the Internet age. How a "shared sovereignty" (some
>people
>call it "collaborative sovereignty") could look like? Is this only for
>governments or should civil society and other Non-governmental
>stakeholders
>be part of this enhanced understanding of sovereignty?
> 
>Wolfgang
>
> 
>________________________________
>
>Von: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org im Auftrag von Jean-Louis
>FULLSACK
>Gesendet: Mo 01.10.2012 10:51
>An: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Kleinwächter, Wolfgang; parminder
>Betreff: re: [governance] Principles
>
>
>
>Whoow !
>
> 
>
>Wolfgang Wrote
>
> 
>
><Wolfgang:
><Multistakeholderism *IS* the highest form of participatory democracy
>
> 
>
>What's the next step ? Maybe
>
>Multistakeholderism will BE democracy
>
> 
>
>Not for me, neither in its current "version" nor in its possible future
>
> 
>
>Jean-Louis Fullsack
>
>
>
>
>
>	> Message du 01/10/12 09:52
>	> De : ""Kleinwächter, Wolfgang""
>	> A : governance at lists.igcaucus.org, "parminder" ,
>governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>	> Copie à : 
>	> Objet : [governance] Principles
>	> 
>	> Parminder:
>	> multistakeholderism (whats wrong with participatory democracy?)
>	> 
>	> Wolfgang:
>	> Multistakeholderism *IS* the highest form of participatory
>democracy
>	> 
>	> Parminder: 
>	> improvements to internationalism & national laws
>	> 
>	> Wolfgang:
>	> To errect (national) legal barriers for the free flow of
>information among people is a bad idea and contrary to individual human
>right to freedom of expression. Governments have an obligation under
>international law to guarantee access to and the distribution of
>information
>"regardless of frontiers". To undermine the borderless nature of the
>Internet and to introduce a system for Internet communication similar to
>global travel arrangements, (where you need a permission (visa) to leave
>or
>enter a country) brings us back into the cold war of the 20th century and
>would have bad and sad economic and social consequences in particular for
>individuals in developing countries.
>	> 
>	> In this context I repeat my proposal to start in Baku with the
>work on a global "Multistakeholder Framework of Committment" on Internet
>Governance and Internet Freedom (FoC) which could take on board all the
>ideas and proposals expressed in the 20+ Internet Governance Principles
>declarations, resolutions and guidelines which has been adopted in the
>last
>two years by IBSA, Shanghai, OECD, CoE, OSCE, UNESCO and numerous
>non-governmental platforms, including the IGF Dynamic Coalition in Rights
>and Principles. The message from Baku should be to invite the MAG to form
>a
>WGIG like multistakeholder group of experts (during its February 2013
>meeting in Paris) and to draft until the 8th IGF a first outline with the
>aim to have a substantial draft for high level discussion at the 9th IGF
>in
>2014 and to adopt such a FoC by acclamation at the 10th IGF in 2015.
>	> 
>	> wolfgang
>	> 
>	> ____________________________________________________________
>	> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>	> governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>	> To be removed from the list, visit:
>	> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>	> 
>	> For all other list information and functions, see:
>	> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>	> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>	> http://www.igcaucus..org/
>	> 
>	> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>	> 
>
>
>
>


-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From nhklein at gmx.net  Mon Oct  1 10:07:43 2012
From: nhklein at gmx.net (Norbert Klein)
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2012 21:07:43 +0700
Subject: [governance] Principles
In-Reply-To: <04e201cd9fd4$93de6080$bb9b2180$@gmail.com>
References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com> <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org> <CACAaNxhbB9GNvropAXac41J0vCeG7ofX9dRJrSLFKcjMpbhSbQ@mail.gmail.com> <CA+=oXBJVT+n9A9uKSeh5qu3ox+Qw99xSTci+s6bSXaYnWC1_gA@mail.gmail.com> <02350A3A-0235-4E7A-B1D0-5D6ED84AEE4C@safernet.org.br> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <506944F6.1090501@itforchange.net> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3C5@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <1025562875.8772.1349081476302.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f27> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3CE@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <04e201cd9fd4$93de6080$bb9b2180$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5069A3AF.7060500@gmx.net>

Interesting and important.

My question relates to this part: “the degree to which such processes 
could at all be called ``democratic`` at least within any definition of 
the term that I (or I would expect most of us) would understand.”

There is an assumption what “most of us” would expect – but it is not 
defined.

So I assume – maybe wrongly? - it is a kind of “one man (or woman) one 
vote”? If not – so what? Please elaborate.

This surely was a good principle – it was used a lot arguing, for 
example, against the South African Apartheid regime which rejected it.

Was it a triumph of democracy when the National 
Socialists*(*the*“Na*tionalso*zi*alisten*” = Nazi”),*with the help of 
the German National People's Party 
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_National_People%27s_Party>, were 
victorious in elections inMarch 1933 –starting a dark age of German 
history, tremendous damage on many others too.

“Demo-cracy” hints at a concept that the will of the people governs. But 
how?

The Cambodian People's Party has gained more and more seats in the 
National Assembly through every vote since 1993 – but the UN Special 
Rapporteur on the Situation of Human Rights in Cambodia has raised 
serious concerns becausethe electoral system – especially the National 
Election Committee – is controlled by government appointees, NOT 
representing the plurality of parties in the National Assembly. And 
thousands and thousands of people forcefully evicted from their 
traditional areas of residency have not only lost their homes, but they 
are no longer on residency related voter lists.

Is the one-country-one-vote - on the UN level – more democratic, where 
14 million Cambodia havethe same vote-weight as 235+ million of Indonesia?

The question is not only: What is democratic? – In the actual situations 
where we live it meansalso: How do we move towards the good goal that 
“the people's” benefits (not the majority of the people who voted in the 
Nazis in Germany, I add, without offering at the same time a rationale 
for my personal opinion here) are central?

It is on this background that I well understand theshort statement 
(which is open to misunderstandings) about Internet Governance:

“Multistakeholderism**IS**  the highest form of participatory democracy”

If it is not – so what else, and how?


Norbert Klein
Phnom Penh/Cambodia

=

On 10/1/2012 7:59 PM, michael gurstein wrote:
> Wolfgang and all,
>
> I`ve just had an opportunity to observe at somewhat close hand a series of
> multi-stakeholder processes at work (in Agriculture planning) in several
> African countries... I was quite impressed for a number of reasons which I
> won`t go into here (I`m currently working on the report...
>
> However, one conclusion that I would draw is that while
> `multi-stakeholderism` is in at least some instances very effective as an
> inclusive, let`s say `participative` management tool it is very far from
> what I, or I think almost anyone would call ``democratic`` (unless, as in
> some I think, quite perverse instances, one chooses to conflate the notions
> of management with democracy).
>
> The problem is that while multi-stakeholderism is inclusive of interests it
> is not necessarily accountable or representative of or for those interests.
> So for example, while a national or reagional farmers` union might be a very
> effective stakeholder representative of the interests of small holder
> farmers the precise process of accountability and representivity is in many
> instances a very open question subject to for example, the personailities of
> individuals, literacy, access to media and information, political
> interference etc. etc. The latter caveats do not preclude the former
> affirmations but they do strongly bracket the degree to which such processes
> could at all be called ``democratic`` at least within any definition of the
> term that I (or I would expect most of us) would understand.
>
> I think your broad objective of pursuing a framework for multi-stakeholder
> governance of the Internet is a worthwhile one and one I hope to contribute
> to in Baku, however, I think a useful outcome of that initiative would still
> leave open the question of overall democractic governance and accountability
> of the Internet.
>
> Best,
>
> Mike

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121001/7ed08bae/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From gurstein at gmail.com  Mon Oct  1 10:36:48 2012
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 10:36:48 -0400
Subject: [governance] Principles
In-Reply-To: <5069A3AF.7060500@gmx.net>
References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com> <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org> <CACAaNxhbB9GNvropAXac41J0vCeG7ofX9dRJrSLFKcjMpbhSbQ@mail.gmail.com> <CA+=oXBJVT+n9A9uKSeh5qu3ox+Qw99xSTci+s6bSXaYnWC1_gA@mail.gmail.com> <02350A3A-0235-4E7A-B1D0-5D6ED84AEE4C@safernet.org.br> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <506944F6.1090501@itforchange.net> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3C5@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <1025562875.8772.1349081476302.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f27> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3CE@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <04e201cd9fd4$93de6080$bb9b2180$@gmail.com> <5069A3AF.7060500@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <005c01cd9fe2$30ca9320$925fb960$@gmail.com>

Very good question Norbert and I well accept your cases and I don't have any easy answers (but nor I think, does anyone else…

 

Two things though, I know for sure that governance by self-appointed, essentially unaccountable "stakeholders" is not "democracy" at least by any definition I understand, and also that we probably need to have some sort of collective rethinking/redefinition of what we do mean by democracy in an age of instantaneous and essentially free and massified communication and information, the capacity for borderless (and defenseless) action at a distance, mass literacy, and other manifestations of the technologically transformed world that has emerged and would be completely unrecognizable to the conceptualizers of representative democracy in the 18th and 19th century.

 

Issues of scale and unit (macro and micro the neighborhood, the tribe, the province, the nation, the world);  issues of accountability and transparency (increased opportunity for and increased means to avoid), issues of efficacy (personal, collective, associative) and a wide range of others need to be accounted for and I think "we" as a species have only just started that rethinking process…

 

In the meantime abandoning something that we do know and understand and have some experience with for leaps in the dark seems to me to be a not very useful place to begin.

 

M 

 

From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Norbert Klein
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 10:08 AM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
Subject: Re: [governance] Principles

 

Interesting and important.

My question relates to this part: “the degree to which such processes could at all be called ``democratic`` at least within any definition of the term that I (or I would expect most of us) would understand.”

There is an assumption what “most of us” would expect – but it is not defined.

So I assume – maybe wrongly? - it is a kind of “one man (or woman) one vote”? If not – so what? Please elaborate.

This surely was a good principle – it was used a lot arguing, for example, against the South African Apartheid regime which rejected it.

Was it a triumph of democracy when the National Socialists (the “Nationalsozialisten” = Nazi”), with the help of the  <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_National_People%27s_Party> German National People's Party, were victorious in elections in March 1933 – starting a dark age of German history, tremendous damage on many others too.

“Demo-cracy” hints at a concept that the will of the people governs. But how?

The Cambodian People's Party has gained more and more seats in the National Assembly through every vote since 1993 – but the UN Special Rapporteur on the Situation of Human Rights in Cambodia has raised serious concerns because the electoral system – especially the National Election Committee – is controlled by government appointees, NOT representing the plurality of parties in the National Assembly. And thousands and thousands of people forcefully evicted from their traditional areas of residency have not only lost their homes, but they are no longer on residency related voter lists.

Is the one-country-one-vote - on the UN level – more democratic, where 14 million Cambodia have the same vote-weight as 235+ million of Indonesia? 

The question is not only: What is democratic? – In the actual situations where we live it means also: How do we move towards the good goal that “the people's” benefits (not the majority of the people who voted in the Nazis in Germany, I add, without offering at the same time a rationale for my personal opinion here) are central?

It is on this background that I well understand the short statement (which is open to misunderstandings) about Internet Governance:

“Multistakeholderism *IS* the highest form of participatory democracy”

If it is not – so what else, and how?


Norbert Klein
Phnom Penh/Cambodia

=

On 10/1/2012 7:59 PM, michael gurstein wrote:

Wolfgang and all,
 
I`ve just had an opportunity to observe at somewhat close hand a series of
multi-stakeholder processes at work (in Agriculture planning) in several
African countries... I was quite impressed for a number of reasons which I
won`t go into here (I`m currently working on the report...
 
However, one conclusion that I would draw is that while
`multi-stakeholderism` is in at least some instances very effective as an
inclusive, let`s say `participative` management tool it is very far from
what I, or I think almost anyone would call ``democratic`` (unless, as in
some I think, quite perverse instances, one chooses to conflate the notions
of management with democracy).
 
The problem is that while multi-stakeholderism is inclusive of interests it
is not necessarily accountable or representative of or for those interests.
So for example, while a national or reagional farmers` union might be a very
effective stakeholder representative of the interests of small holder
farmers the precise process of accountability and representivity is in many
instances a very open question subject to for example, the personailities of
individuals, literacy, access to media and information, political
interference etc. etc. The latter caveats do not preclude the former
affirmations but they do strongly bracket the degree to which such processes
could at all be called ``democratic`` at least within any definition of the
term that I (or I would expect most of us) would understand.
 
I think your broad objective of pursuing a framework for multi-stakeholder
governance of the Internet is a worthwhile one and one I hope to contribute
to in Baku, however, I think a useful outcome of that initiative would still
leave open the question of overall democractic governance and accountability
of the Internet.
 
Best,
 
Mike

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121001/4d93eb57/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From jlfullsack at orange.fr  Mon Oct  1 10:55:54 2012
From: jlfullsack at orange.fr (Jean-Louis FULLSACK)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 16:55:54 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: AW: [governance] Principles
Message-ID: <1107491249.20788.1349103354683.JavaMail.www@wwinf1g18>

Hallo Wolfgang Of course I'd prefer to exchange with you about such "senitive" issues in our common language, I mean german. But unfortunately we can't on this list ... I know -and I understand- how your background is modelled by your personal experience. However, the thematics we are dealing with here are in a much different environment. In the ICT domain there are not any longer two "empires" that try to share the (ICT-)pie, but rather a unique one that firmly intends to get almost all of it ! That justifies some major points Parminder is regularly and correctly raising on the list. Let's look at your arguments for assessing that MSHism IS "the highest form of participatory democracy" because it "offers an option to bring all parties on a equal footing into the process of a PDP". On an equal footing ? Do you feel on equal footing with Eric Schmitt (Google) or even Mark Zuckerberg" (Facebook), just to take two simple examples ? Unless you you are presumptuus or irrealistic, dear Wolfgang, this isn't the case. May be I'm wrong, but it's up to you to proove it to us. For staying in Europe, are you aware of the capacity of influence of the 2000 or so "agreed lobbyists" in Brussels and did you weigh it against that of the hundred or so NGOs ? Just look the result in the REACH Directive of the Commission ! Whereas I agree (end of second alinea) that "a intergovernmental treaty system needs additional (external) checks and balances" I'm rather sceptical about the fact that checks and balances have " today be embedded into a multistakeholder environment". Such an "embedded MSHism" is likely to be ineffective as the lamentable failure of the Rio+20 Summit demonstrates, despite a long multistakeholder based preparation ! However, I agree with the usefulness of a discussion about the meaning of national (and regional as for Europe) sovereignty in a globalized world, except that in my mind -and for the sake of Humanity- this world shouldn't be "Internet based" but, let's say, Internet benefitting or Internet-aided. If CS is to defend something in the actual world it IS a common set of values agreed upon. Finally I also agree with your proposal (last alinea) to start a discussion -in my opinion an in-depth discussion- on "how to enhance our understanding of sovereingty and self-determination", and "How a shared sovereignty (some people call it "collaborative sovereignty") could look like". But I'd suggest this dicussion to permanently keep in mind the fundamentals of representative democracy, unless it will encompass risks for democracy itself to regress ! I thank you, Wolfgang, for your understanding Best greetings to you and to the members of the list Jean-Louis Fullsack > Message du 01/10/12 11:53
> De : ""Kleinwächter, Wolfgang"" 
> A : "Jean-Louis FULLSACK" , governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> Copie à : 
> Objet : AW: [governance] Principles
> 
> Hi Jean Louis,
> 
> like always: if you try to be short your produce misunderstandings. My reference point is the "round table" philosophy we had in 1989 after the collapse of the German Democratic Repuiblic and which was - at least in my eyes - a very high form of a participatory democracy. This was killed within months by our west German brothers who said that such an involvement of all stakeholders is not needed in a representative democracy. WSIS has proofed that the involvement of non-govenrmental stakeholders, in particular civil society, in affairs which had been so far negotiated only by the representatives of governments, is not a bad idea. 
> 
> The multistakeholder model offers an option to bring all parties on a equal footing into the process of a PDP, case by case. I agree that the existing models (IGF, ICANN) are far away from the ideal, but they are first steps into the right direction. The alternative - back to the intergovernmental treaty system - would be in my eyes a step backwards. This is not an argument against the intergovernmental treaty system (where needed), we need international law and the Charter of the United Nations with its jus cogens principles is a good document. But I see that such a intergovernmental treaty system needs additional (external) checks and balances and has today be embedded into a multistakeholder environment. The WGIG definition speaks about "shared decision making procedures". At the end this will lead us to a discussion about the meaing of national (governmental) sovereignty in a globalised Internet based world. 
> 
> It would make sense to start a discussion how to enhance our understanding of "sovereingty" and "self-determination" (two jus cogens principles from the UN Charter) in the Internet age. How a "shared sovereignty" (some people call it "collaborative sovereignty") could look like? Is this only for governments or should civil society and other Non-governmental stakeholders be part of this enhanced understanding of sovereignty? 

> 
> Wolfgang
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> 
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121001/64506bbe/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From mueller at syr.edu  Mon Oct  1 10:59:59 2012
From: mueller at syr.edu (Milton L Mueller)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 14:59:59 +0000
Subject: [governance] Google's officer with detention order in brasil
In-Reply-To: <506944F6.1090501@itforchange.net>
References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com>
 <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org>
 <CACAaNxhbB9GNvropAXac41J0vCeG7ofX9dRJrSLFKcjMpbhSbQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+=oXBJVT+n9A9uKSeh5qu3ox+Qw99xSTci+s6bSXaYnWC1_gA@mail.gmail.com>
 <02350A3A-0235-4E7A-B1D0-5D6ED84AEE4C@safernet.org.br>
 <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
 <506944F6.1090501@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223FF98@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>

Parminder,
In my opinion your responses and statements continue to take the form of crude leftist propaganda rather than real dialogue. But I understand that you, like most propagandists, get a lot of mileage out of simply repeating the same message over and over again until people grow weary of responding. So I will make some perfunctory efforts to respond just to demonstrate that most of us are not intimidated by aggressive repetition of invalid arguments.

They should use democratic processes, and if the processes are not fine, fight to have the right processes.

MM: So you are proposing that people meekly comply with such crude interventions until such time as legislatures change, judges change, etc.? I on the other hand would support the right of people to exercise internationally guaranteed free expression rights in defiance of any government.

Putin was elected in Russia, Hugo Chavez was "elected" in Venezuela, I supposed they must be obeyed in your calculation? And you speak of struggles for democracy!

This is the history of struggles for democracy, which continue, although a new neoliberal discourse has been trying to confuse them through concepts like users rights (whats wrong with people's rights!), multistakeholderism (whats wrong with participatory democracy), internet exceptionalism and so on.

MM: You are stuck in a 19th century mindset involving the territorial nation-state with elected officials as the ultimate and only form of democracy. It is unfortunate that your thinking has not progressed. And by the way, all successful and progressive democracies are in fact liberal democracies, so it is not democracy per se that is of value, but democracy as one element of a political system that safeguards individual human rights.

You of course realise that US gov has full authority over its own digital space, and considerable authority over that of other countries. Thus it may be more useful to direct civil society fire power where the illegitimate concentration of power lies.

MM: I have directed and am directing considerable firepower at USG exercises of national power over cyberspace, as you well know.
And there are many advocates of US power who believe that it does NOT have sufficient authority over its own digital space. I guess you haven't been paying attention to the cybersecurity legislation debates in the US.

I have failed to see any proposals from you for framing global laws for, what we both agree is and should be preserved as a, global Internet.

MM: Then you are simply ignorant, and need to do your reading.

Challenging application of national laws on the Internet in developing countries (the fact of a particular law being bad is a very different issues and should be dealt by democratic and civil society processes) and instead advocating application of US globally does not make for a very convincing case.

MM: I favor globalized and networked institutions for setting policy and, more important, minimal coercive interventions regardless of where they come from. As you well know. So nice try, but I don't think your attempt to exploit anti-US populism really works in my case.

On the other hand, it is clear from your comments above that you do NOT support international laws guaranteeing freedom of expression "regardless of frontiers." In this case, you want national laws applied regardless of their impact on freedom of information. Your political appeals are based on a crude anti-business agenda, not on an Internet freedom agenda.

"Big business is bad " is a nice simple slogan, and many people will respond to it, and it can get lots of folks elected to local political office. But let's keep in mind the basic facts of the situation we are debating. What was the "crime" here?  It was: not taking down a video criticizing a politician within 24 hours. Can you tell me how the public was harmed by this? Do you view this as a gigantic violation of public interest? You are really quite comical. At least the communists and socialists of the 1920s were dealing with life-and-death issues in regard to their critique of business. If you are going to wage an international war against the depredations of big business, you had better come up with something more substantive than Google's terms of use applied to people getting free service, or its resistance to silly and obstructive local laws regarding video takedowns. And we all know that if Google took down videos arbitrarily, you would be criticizing them for that, as well. It's very clear where your simple-minded politics are coming from.

On the other hand, I do understand that in the new neoliberal global world order, their is this new political direction of richer classes in most countries (especially, but not only, developing countries) to seek to opt out of the democratic order they are 'subject to' in favour of a new post-democratic global order whose political capital lies in the US, because whether they like it or not, any new system still needs some kind of political coercive authority, for instance to make those early dawn knocks to catch people doing things as dangerous as sharing video files.

Again, there is no coherent political or legal argument here, there is simply 1970s-vintage foaming at the mouth against "US imperialism". Should the world ever be unfortunate enough to put you and your ideas in a position of power and responsibility, you will soon learn - as did all the 'anti-imperialist' socialist dictatorships and economic failures in the developing world of the 1970s - that simply being against the US does not produce anything of value for subject populations. You have to have a substantive agenda.

you have said that US laws and judges are good and should continue to overlord over the ICANN (for whatever 'minimalist' areas that you lay down).

Another crude distortion. We have had a debate about California nonprofit incorporation law. ICANN has to incorporate somewhere, and I have said that in terms of public accountability, which you claim to support, that California law is as good as any, and that it is BETTER than international organization laws, which immunize organizations from all kinds of things. You are basically claiming that a treaty can be devised that is better, but no such treaty exists! And given the realities of inter-state political bargaining, there is very little likelihood that the outcome of a treaty process would be better. You have lost this argument,  obviously, so your only recourse is to return to your anti-US mantra and claim that I support US as "overlord."

I think most people can see through this.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121001/782a4fd7/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de  Mon Oct  1 12:55:04 2012
From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang=22?=)
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2012 18:55:04 +0200
Subject: [governance] UNDESA
References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com>
 <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org>
 <CACAaNxhbB9GNvropAXac41J0vCeG7ofX9dRJrSLFKcjMpbhSbQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+=oXBJVT+n9A9uKSeh5qu3ox+Qw99xSTci+s6bSXaYnWC1_gA@mail.gmail.com>
 <02350A3A-0235-4E7A-B1D0-5D6ED84AEE4C@safernet.org.br>
 <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
 <506944F6.1090501@itforchange.net>
 <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223FF98@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID:  <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3D5@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>

Does he have the IGF and Internet Governance on his agenda?
 
http://www.un.org/en/development/desa/newsletter/desanews/feature/2012/10/index.html#4994
 
wolfgang

-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From David_Allen_AB63 at post.harvard.edu  Mon Oct  1 15:24:30 2012
From: David_Allen_AB63 at post.harvard.edu (David Allen)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 15:24:30 -0400
Subject: [governance] Principles
In-Reply-To: <005c01cd9fe2$30ca9320$925fb960$@gmail.com>
References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com> <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org> <CACAaNxhbB9GNvropAXac41J0vCeG7ofX9dRJrSLFKcjMpbhSbQ@mail.gmail.com> <CA+=oXBJVT+n9A9uKSeh5qu3ox+Qw99xSTci+s6bSXaYnWC1_gA@mail.gmail.com> <02350A3A-0235-4E7A-B1D0-5D6ED84AEE4C@safernet.org.br> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <506944F6.1090501@itforchange.net> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3C5@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <1025562875.8772.1349081476302.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f27> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3CE@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <04e201cd9fd4$93de6080$bb9b2180$@gmail.com> <5069A3AF.7060500@gmx.net> <005c01cd9fe2$30ca9320$925fb960$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4867EA09-80AD-40ED-9487-56E0ED02C9F3@post.harvard.edu>

How many times has this list been around this track ...?

Norbert Klein rightly brings to attention the difficulties to which  
democracy can be prey.

And Winston Churchill helped us understand - in that very sober light  
- where we stand today:  "... democracy is the worst form of  
government except all the others that have been tried."

By no stretch of the imagination does so-called multi-stakeholderism  
hold out prospect to be a replacement.

That does not of course remove the terrible blemishes democracy may  
create.  In fact, another Churchill quote holds that:  "The best  
argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the  
average voter."

What is clear is that we just might benefit from some quality thinking  
and some hard, collaborative work, to try to understand how  
representativeness may be instantiated, in a much-more-connected  
world, and especially in a world that now truly becomes global.  Where  
agreement among very many, and many very different, actors is now  
often urgent.  But more and more difficult to cobble together, because  
of the scale and attendant complexity.  Yet, ultimate power in  
individual citizen hands is therefore all the more paramount, as the  
starting point.

Rather than shibboleths, as seemingly easy - but really just facile -  
answers, we might apply ourselves to the serious work at hand.

As Michael Gurstein has encouraged.

David

On Oct 1, 2012, at 10:36 AM, michael gurstein wrote:

> Very good question Norbert and I well accept your cases and I don't  
> have any easy answers (but nor I think, does anyone else…
>
> Two things though, I know for sure that governance by self- 
> appointed, essentially unaccountable "stakeholders" is not  
> "democracy" at least by any definition I understand, and also that  
> we probably need to have some sort of collective rethinking/ 
> redefinition of what we do mean by democracy in an age of  
> instantaneous and essentially free and massified communication and  
> information, the capacity for borderless (and defenseless) action at  
> a distance, mass literacy, and other manifestations of the  
> technologically transformed world that has emerged and would be  
> completely unrecognizable to the conceptualizers of representative  
> democracy in the 18th and 19th century.
>
> Issues of scale and unit (macro and micro the neighborhood, the  
> tribe, the province, the nation, the world);  issues of  
> accountability and transparency (increased opportunity for and  
> increased means to avoid), issues of efficacy (personal, collective,  
> associative) and a wide range of others need to be accounted for and  
> I think "we" as a species have only just started that rethinking  
> process…
>
> In the meantime abandoning something that we do know and understand  
> and have some experience with for leaps in the dark seems to me to  
> be a not very useful place to begin.
>
> M
>
> From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org 
> ] On Behalf Of Norbert Klein
> Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 10:08 AM
> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> Subject: Re: [governance] Principles
>
> Interesting and important.
> My question relates to this part: “the degree to which such  
> processes could at all be called ``democratic`` at least within any  
> definition of the term that I (or I would expect most of us) would  
> understand.”
> There is an assumption what “most of us” would expect – but it is  
> not defined.
> So I assume – maybe wrongly? - it is a kind of “one man (or woman)  
> one vote”? If not – so what? Please elaborate.
> This surely was a good principle – it was used a lot arguing, for  
> example, against the South African Apartheid regime which rejected it.
> Was it a triumph of democracy when the National Socialists (the  
> “Nationalsozialisten” = Nazi”), with the help of the German National  
> People's Party, were victorious in elections in March 1933 –  
> starting a dark age of German history, tremendous damage on many  
> others too.
> “Demo-cracy” hints at a concept that the will of the people governs.  
> But how?
> The Cambodian People's Party has gained more and more seats in the  
> National Assembly through every vote since 1993 – but the UN Special  
> Rapporteur on the Situation of Human Rights in Cambodia has raised  
> serious concerns because the electoral system – especially the  
> National Election Committee – is controlled by government  
> appointees, NOT representing the plurality of parties in the  
> National Assembly. And thousands and thousands of people forcefully  
> evicted from their traditional areas of residency have not only lost  
> their homes, but they are no longer on residency related voter lists.
> Is the one-country-one-vote - on the UN level – more democratic,  
> where 14 million Cambodia have the same vote-weight as 235+ million  
> of Indonesia?
> The question is not only: What is democratic? – In the actual  
> situations where we live it means also: How do we move towards the  
> good goal that “the people's” benefits (not the majority of the  
> people who voted in the Nazis in Germany, I add, without offering at  
> the same time a rationale for my personal opinion here) are central?
> It is on this background that I well understand the short statement  
> (which is open to misunderstandings) about Internet Governance:
> “Multistakeholderism *IS* the highest form of participatory democracy”
> If it is not – so what else, and how?
>
> Norbert Klein
> Phnom Penh/Cambodia
>
> =
>
> On 10/1/2012 7:59 PM, michael gurstein wrote:
> Wolfgang and all,
>
> I`ve just had an opportunity to observe at somewhat close hand a  
> series of
> multi-stakeholder processes at work (in Agriculture planning) in  
> several
> African countries... I was quite impressed for a number of reasons  
> which I
> won`t go into here (I`m currently working on the report...
>
> However, one conclusion that I would draw is that while
> `multi-stakeholderism` is in at least some instances very effective  
> as an
> inclusive, let`s say `participative` management tool it is very far  
> from
> what I, or I think almost anyone would call ``democratic`` (unless,  
> as in
> some I think, quite perverse instances, one chooses to conflate the  
> notions
> of management with democracy).
>
> The problem is that while multi-stakeholderism is inclusive of  
> interests it
> is not necessarily accountable or representative of or for those  
> interests.
> So for example, while a national or reagional farmers` union might  
> be a very
> effective stakeholder representative of the interests of small holder
> farmers the precise process of accountability and representivity is  
> in many
> instances a very open question subject to for example, the  
> personailities of
> individuals, literacy, access to media and information, political
> interference etc. etc. The latter caveats do not preclude the former
> affirmations but they do strongly bracket the degree to which such  
> processes
> could at all be called ``democratic`` at least within any definition  
> of the
> term that I (or I would expect most of us) would understand.
>
> I think your broad objective of pursuing a framework for multi- 
> stakeholder
> governance of the Internet is a worthwhile one and one I hope to  
> contribute
> to in Baku, however, I think a useful outcome of that initiative  
> would still
> leave open the question of overall democractic governance and  
> accountability
> of the Internet.
>
> Best,
>
> Mike
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121001/8ac9d342/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From nb at bollow.ch  Mon Oct  1 16:23:06 2012
From: nb at bollow.ch (Norbert Bollow)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 22:23:06 +0200
Subject: [governance] Principles
In-Reply-To: <4867EA09-80AD-40ED-9487-56E0ED02C9F3@post.harvard.edu>
References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com>
	<50656139.4070604@cis-india.org>
	<CACAaNxhbB9GNvropAXac41J0vCeG7ofX9dRJrSLFKcjMpbhSbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+=oXBJVT+n9A9uKSeh5qu3ox+Qw99xSTci+s6bSXaYnWC1_gA@mail.gmail.com>
	<02350A3A-0235-4E7A-B1D0-5D6ED84AEE4C@safernet.org.br>
	<855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
	<506944F6.1090501@itforchange.net>
	<2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3C5@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
	<1025562875.8772.1349081476302.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f27>
	<2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3CE@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
	<04e201cd9fd4$93de6080$bb9b2180$@gmail.com>
	<5069A3AF.7060500@gmx.net>
	<005c01cd9fe2$30ca9320$925fb960$@gmail.com>
	<4867EA09-80AD-40ED-9487-56E0ED02C9F3@post.harvard.edu>
Message-ID: <20121001222306.31a0349c@quill.bollow.ch>

Dear all

I'm rather alarmed by Wolfgang's assertion that "Multistakeholderism
*IS* the highest form of participatory democracy".

I would suggest that the main point of democracy is to safeguard the
public interest against being overpowered by powerful particular
interests.

By contrast, multistakeholderism allows all stakeholders to participate
without restriction. This implies that it cannot contain adequate
processes for making decisions on those questions which, due to
significant conflicts between different legitimate interest, cannot be
resolved by rough consensus.

It is true that democratic governance systems tend to have
imperfections, and I'm all in favor of working on fixing any and all
bugs that can be clearly identified and for which a known solution
strategy exists. One of these bugs is the current tendency of
governments (including in particular the judicial branch) to make
Internet related decisions without understanding what they're doing.
As you know I'm proposing to address this bug by means of a
multistakeholder process to create informative recommendation
documents to inform them better.
( http://enhanced-cooperation.org/RFA/1 )  

But please let's avoid talking about multistakeholderism as if it in
itself somehow were an improved form of democracy. It isn't.

Further, I agree with the points made by Michael Gurstein and David
Allen.

Greetings,
Norbert


David Allen <David_Allen_AB63 at post.harvard.edu> wrote:

> How many times has this list been around this track ...?
> 
> Norbert Klein rightly brings to attention the difficulties to which  
> democracy can be prey.
> 
> And Winston Churchill helped us understand - in that very sober
> light  
> - where we stand today:  "... democracy is the worst form of  
> government except all the others that have been tried."
> 
> By no stretch of the imagination does so-called multi-stakeholderism  
> hold out prospect to be a replacement.
> 
> That does not of course remove the terrible blemishes democracy may  
> create.  In fact, another Churchill quote holds that:  "The best  
> argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the  
> average voter."
> 
> What is clear is that we just might benefit from some quality
> thinking and some hard, collaborative work, to try to understand how  
> representativeness may be instantiated, in a much-more-connected  
> world, and especially in a world that now truly becomes global.
> Where agreement among very many, and many very different, actors is
> now often urgent.  But more and more difficult to cobble together,
> because of the scale and attendant complexity.  Yet, ultimate power
> in individual citizen hands is therefore all the more paramount, as
> the starting point.
> 
> Rather than shibboleths, as seemingly easy - but really just facile
> - answers, we might apply ourselves to the serious work at hand.
> 
> As Michael Gurstein has encouraged.
> 
> David
> 
> On Oct 1, 2012, at 10:36 AM, michael gurstein wrote:
> 
> > Very good question Norbert and I well accept your cases and I
> > don't have any easy answers (but nor I think, does anyone else…
> >
> > Two things though, I know for sure that governance by self- 
> > appointed, essentially unaccountable "stakeholders" is not  
> > "democracy" at least by any definition I understand, and also that  
> > we probably need to have some sort of collective rethinking/ 
> > redefinition of what we do mean by democracy in an age of  
> > instantaneous and essentially free and massified communication and  
> > information, the capacity for borderless (and defenseless) action
> > at a distance, mass literacy, and other manifestations of the  
> > technologically transformed world that has emerged and would be  
> > completely unrecognizable to the conceptualizers of representative  
> > democracy in the 18th and 19th century.
> >
> > Issues of scale and unit (macro and micro the neighborhood, the  
> > tribe, the province, the nation, the world);  issues of  
> > accountability and transparency (increased opportunity for and  
> > increased means to avoid), issues of efficacy (personal,
> > collective, associative) and a wide range of others need to be
> > accounted for and I think "we" as a species have only just started
> > that rethinking process…
> >
> > In the meantime abandoning something that we do know and
> > understand and have some experience with for leaps in the dark
> > seems to me to be a not very useful place to begin.
> >
> > M
> >
> > From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
> > [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org ] On Behalf Of
> > Norbert Klein Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 10:08 AM
> > To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> > Subject: Re: [governance] Principles
> >
> > Interesting and important.
> > My question relates to this part: “the degree to which such  
> > processes could at all be called ``democratic`` at least within
> > any definition of the term that I (or I would expect most of us)
> > would understand.”
> > There is an assumption what “most of us” would expect – but it is  
> > not defined.
> > So I assume – maybe wrongly? - it is a kind of “one man (or woman)  
> > one vote”? If not – so what? Please elaborate.
> > This surely was a good principle – it was used a lot arguing, for  
> > example, against the South African Apartheid regime which rejected
> > it. Was it a triumph of democracy when the National Socialists
> > (the “Nationalsozialisten” = Nazi”), with the help of the German
> > National People's Party, were victorious in elections in March 1933
> > – starting a dark age of German history, tremendous damage on many  
> > others too.
> > “Demo-cracy” hints at a concept that the will of the people
> > governs. But how?
> > The Cambodian People's Party has gained more and more seats in the  
> > National Assembly through every vote since 1993 – but the UN
> > Special Rapporteur on the Situation of Human Rights in Cambodia has
> > raised serious concerns because the electoral system – especially
> > the National Election Committee – is controlled by government  
> > appointees, NOT representing the plurality of parties in the  
> > National Assembly. And thousands and thousands of people
> > forcefully evicted from their traditional areas of residency have
> > not only lost their homes, but they are no longer on residency
> > related voter lists. Is the one-country-one-vote - on the UN level
> > – more democratic, where 14 million Cambodia have the same
> > vote-weight as 235+ million of Indonesia?
> > The question is not only: What is democratic? – In the actual  
> > situations where we live it means also: How do we move towards the  
> > good goal that “the people's” benefits (not the majority of the  
> > people who voted in the Nazis in Germany, I add, without offering
> > at the same time a rationale for my personal opinion here) are
> > central? It is on this background that I well understand the short
> > statement (which is open to misunderstandings) about Internet
> > Governance: “Multistakeholderism *IS* the highest form of
> > participatory democracy” If it is not – so what else, and how?
> >
> > Norbert Klein
> > Phnom Penh/Cambodia
> >
> > =
> >
> > On 10/1/2012 7:59 PM, michael gurstein wrote:
> > Wolfgang and all,
> >
> > I`ve just had an opportunity to observe at somewhat close hand a  
> > series of
> > multi-stakeholder processes at work (in Agriculture planning) in  
> > several
> > African countries... I was quite impressed for a number of reasons  
> > which I
> > won`t go into here (I`m currently working on the report...
> >
> > However, one conclusion that I would draw is that while
> > `multi-stakeholderism` is in at least some instances very
> > effective as an
> > inclusive, let`s say `participative` management tool it is very
> > far from
> > what I, or I think almost anyone would call ``democratic``
> > (unless, as in
> > some I think, quite perverse instances, one chooses to conflate
> > the notions
> > of management with democracy).
> >
> > The problem is that while multi-stakeholderism is inclusive of  
> > interests it
> > is not necessarily accountable or representative of or for those  
> > interests.
> > So for example, while a national or reagional farmers` union might  
> > be a very
> > effective stakeholder representative of the interests of small
> > holder farmers the precise process of accountability and
> > representivity is in many
> > instances a very open question subject to for example, the  
> > personailities of
> > individuals, literacy, access to media and information, political
> > interference etc. etc. The latter caveats do not preclude the former
> > affirmations but they do strongly bracket the degree to which such  
> > processes
> > could at all be called ``democratic`` at least within any
> > definition of the
> > term that I (or I would expect most of us) would understand.
> >
> > I think your broad objective of pursuing a framework for multi- 
> > stakeholder
> > governance of the Internet is a worthwhile one and one I hope to  
> > contribute
> > to in Baku, however, I think a useful outcome of that initiative  
> > would still
> > leave open the question of overall democractic governance and  
> > accountability
> > of the Internet.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Mike


-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From matthias.kettemann at uni-graz.at  Mon Oct  1 16:48:56 2012
From: matthias.kettemann at uni-graz.at (Kettemann, Matthias (matthias.kettemann@uni-graz.at))
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 22:48:56 +0200
Subject: AW: [governance] Principles
In-Reply-To: <20121001222306.31a0349c@quill.bollow.ch>
References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com>
	<50656139.4070604@cis-india.org>
	<CACAaNxhbB9GNvropAXac41J0vCeG7ofX9dRJrSLFKcjMpbhSbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+=oXBJVT+n9A9uKSeh5qu3ox+Qw99xSTci+s6bSXaYnWC1_gA@mail.gmail.com>
	<02350A3A-0235-4E7A-B1D0-5D6ED84AEE4C@safernet.org.br>
	<855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
	<506944F6.1090501@itforchange.net>
	<2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3C5@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
	<1025562875.8772.1349081476302.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f27>
	<2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3CE@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
	<04e201cd9fd4$93de6080$bb9b2180$@gmail.com>	<5069A3AF.7060500@gmx.net>
	<005c01cd9fe2$30ca9320$925fb960$@gmail.com>
	<4867EA09-80AD-40ED-9487-56E0ED02C9F3@post.harvard.edu>,<20121001222306.31a0349c@quill.bollow.ch>
Message-ID: <E7F950D1E0C75744892C09CBFA0EB3522CF8435755@ARTEMIS.pers.ad.uni-graz.at>

Dear all

though I enjoy this discussion I think there are two underlying problems. 1) Most notions of democracy used in this (and a lot of other) debate(s) are state-centred. They are no longer tenable as a legitimating basis for the production of rules in transnational constellations. To ensure that they are legitimate, we need a new concept of democrac. 2)  Discussants often mix  up two different notions of democracy: the formal and the material one. Formally, democracy demands that each vote be counted. But that's not enough. Over the years there has been developed an international cumstomary law basis of what democracy materially truly means - human rights-based, accountable government (and good governance) based on real, periodic, secret elections. 

What does this mean for our debate? We need to focus not on democracy as a concept, but legitimacy as a goal.

How does this work? First of all, we need to look at the material, not the formal, notion of democracy. We need to ensure that the rules we aim for are materially reflective of the needs of those to whom they are applied. 

Second, 'one (wo)man, one vote' is a nice slogan, but it's just no enough in our post-national constellation. We have to think about how in the 'post-democratic' order (in the sense of post-nation state-based democracy) order legitimacy can be conveyed in the process of producing norms. 

Now, what does this mean for the Internet Governance debate? We need to identify the best process of how to convey legitimacy. This process, as has been pointed out, is multistakeholderism. But multistakeholderism is not a form of participatory democracy; it is a new form of conveying legitimacy in post-democratic trans-national constellations. 

Just as good democracy does nationally, multistakeholder-baesd decision-making have heightened input legitimacy and lead to normative outcomes that are materially reflective of the individual’s central needs (and thus have high output legitimacy). 

This is one of the points I'm making in the published version of my PhD which Eleven International will publish in autumn.

So less talk about democracy, and more talk about legitimacy. 

Kind regards

Matthias

--
Dr. Matthias C. Kettemann, LL.M. (Harvard)
Institute of International Law and International Relations
University of Graz
E | matthias.kettemann at uni-graz.at
Blog | internationallawandtheinternet.blogspot.com
________________________________________
Von: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] im Auftrag von Norbert Bollow [nb at bollow.ch]
Gesendet: Montag, 01. Oktober 2012 22:23
An: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
Betreff: Re: [governance] Principles

Dear all

I'm rather alarmed by Wolfgang's assertion that "Multistakeholderism
*IS* the highest form of participatory democracy".

I would suggest that the main point of democracy is to safeguard the
public interest against being overpowered by powerful particular
interests.

By contrast, multistakeholderism allows all stakeholders to participate
without restriction. This implies that it cannot contain adequate
processes for making decisions on those questions which, due to
significant conflicts between different legitimate interest, cannot be
resolved by rough consensus.

It is true that democratic governance systems tend to have
imperfections, and I'm all in favor of working on fixing any and all
bugs that can be clearly identified and for which a known solution
strategy exists. One of these bugs is the current tendency of
governments (including in particular the judicial branch) to make
Internet related decisions without understanding what they're doing.
As you know I'm proposing to address this bug by means of a
multistakeholder process to create informative recommendation
documents to inform them better.
( http://enhanced-cooperation.org/RFA/1 )

But please let's avoid talking about multistakeholderism as if it in
itself somehow were an improved form of democracy. It isn't.

Further, I agree with the points made by Michael Gurstein and David
Allen.

Greetings,
Norbert


David Allen <David_Allen_AB63 at post.harvard.edu> wrote:

> How many times has this list been around this track ...?
>
> Norbert Klein rightly brings to attention the difficulties to which
> democracy can be prey.
>
> And Winston Churchill helped us understand - in that very sober
> light
> - where we stand today:  "... democracy is the worst form of
> government except all the others that have been tried."
>
> By no stretch of the imagination does so-called multi-stakeholderism
> hold out prospect to be a replacement.
>
> That does not of course remove the terrible blemishes democracy may
> create.  In fact, another Churchill quote holds that:  "The best
> argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the
> average voter."
>
> What is clear is that we just might benefit from some quality
> thinking and some hard, collaborative work, to try to understand how
> representativeness may be instantiated, in a much-more-connected
> world, and especially in a world that now truly becomes global.
> Where agreement among very many, and many very different, actors is
> now often urgent.  But more and more difficult to cobble together,
> because of the scale and attendant complexity.  Yet, ultimate power
> in individual citizen hands is therefore all the more paramount, as
> the starting point.
>
> Rather than shibboleths, as seemingly easy - but really just facile
> - answers, we might apply ourselves to the serious work at hand.
>
> As Michael Gurstein has encouraged.
>
> David
>
> On Oct 1, 2012, at 10:36 AM, michael gurstein wrote:
>
> > Very good question Norbert and I well accept your cases and I
> > don't have any easy answers (but nor I think, does anyone else…
> >
> > Two things though, I know for sure that governance by self-
> > appointed, essentially unaccountable "stakeholders" is not
> > "democracy" at least by any definition I understand, and also that
> > we probably need to have some sort of collective rethinking/
> > redefinition of what we do mean by democracy in an age of
> > instantaneous and essentially free and massified communication and
> > information, the capacity for borderless (and defenseless) action
> > at a distance, mass literacy, and other manifestations of the
> > technologically transformed world that has emerged and would be
> > completely unrecognizable to the conceptualizers of representative
> > democracy in the 18th and 19th century.
> >
> > Issues of scale and unit (macro and micro the neighborhood, the
> > tribe, the province, the nation, the world);  issues of
> > accountability and transparency (increased opportunity for and
> > increased means to avoid), issues of efficacy (personal,
> > collective, associative) and a wide range of others need to be
> > accounted for and I think "we" as a species have only just started
> > that rethinking process…
> >
> > In the meantime abandoning something that we do know and
> > understand and have some experience with for leaps in the dark
> > seems to me to be a not very useful place to begin.
> >
> > M
> >
> > From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
> > [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org ] On Behalf Of
> > Norbert Klein Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 10:08 AM
> > To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> > Subject: Re: [governance] Principles
> >
> > Interesting and important.
> > My question relates to this part: “the degree to which such
> > processes could at all be called ``democratic`` at least within
> > any definition of the term that I (or I would expect most of us)
> > would understand.”
> > There is an assumption what “most of us” would expect – but it is
> > not defined.
> > So I assume – maybe wrongly? - it is a kind of “one man (or woman)
> > one vote”? If not – so what? Please elaborate.
> > This surely was a good principle – it was used a lot arguing, for
> > example, against the South African Apartheid regime which rejected
> > it. Was it a triumph of democracy when the National Socialists
> > (the “Nationalsozialisten” = Nazi”), with the help of the German
> > National People's Party, were victorious in elections in March 1933
> > – starting a dark age of German history, tremendous damage on many
> > others too.
> > “Demo-cracy” hints at a concept that the will of the people
> > governs. But how?
> > The Cambodian People's Party has gained more and more seats in the
> > National Assembly through every vote since 1993 – but the UN
> > Special Rapporteur on the Situation of Human Rights in Cambodia has
> > raised serious concerns because the electoral system – especially
> > the National Election Committee – is controlled by government
> > appointees, NOT representing the plurality of parties in the
> > National Assembly. And thousands and thousands of people
> > forcefully evicted from their traditional areas of residency have
> > not only lost their homes, but they are no longer on residency
> > related voter lists. Is the one-country-one-vote - on the UN level
> > – more democratic, where 14 million Cambodia have the same
> > vote-weight as 235+ million of Indonesia?
> > The question is not only: What is democratic? – In the actual
> > situations where we live it means also: How do we move towards the
> > good goal that “the people's” benefits (not the majority of the
> > people who voted in the Nazis in Germany, I add, without offering
> > at the same time a rationale for my personal opinion here) are
> > central? It is on this background that I well understand the short
> > statement (which is open to misunderstandings) about Internet
> > Governance: “Multistakeholderism *IS* the highest form of
> > participatory democracy” If it is not – so what else, and how?
> >
> > Norbert Klein
> > Phnom Penh/Cambodia
> >
> > =
> >
> > On 10/1/2012 7:59 PM, michael gurstein wrote:
> > Wolfgang and all,
> >
> > I`ve just had an opportunity to observe at somewhat close hand a
> > series of
> > multi-stakeholder processes at work (in Agriculture planning) in
> > several
> > African countries... I was quite impressed for a number of reasons
> > which I
> > won`t go into here (I`m currently working on the report...
> >
> > However, one conclusion that I would draw is that while
> > `multi-stakeholderism` is in at least some instances very
> > effective as an
> > inclusive, let`s say `participative` management tool it is very
> > far from
> > what I, or I think almost anyone would call ``democratic``
> > (unless, as in
> > some I think, quite perverse instances, one chooses to conflate
> > the notions
> > of management with democracy).
> >
> > The problem is that while multi-stakeholderism is inclusive of
> > interests it
> > is not necessarily accountable or representative of or for those
> > interests.
> > So for example, while a national or reagional farmers` union might
> > be a very
> > effective stakeholder representative of the interests of small
> > holder farmers the precise process of accountability and
> > representivity is in many
> > instances a very open question subject to for example, the
> > personailities of
> > individuals, literacy, access to media and information, political
> > interference etc. etc. The latter caveats do not preclude the former
> > affirmations but they do strongly bracket the degree to which such
> > processes
> > could at all be called ``democratic`` at least within any
> > definition of the
> > term that I (or I would expect most of us) would understand.
> >
> > I think your broad objective of pursuing a framework for multi-
> > stakeholder
> > governance of the Internet is a worthwhile one and one I hope to
> > contribute
> > to in Baku, however, I think a useful outcome of that initiative
> > would still
> > leave open the question of overall democractic governance and
> > accountability
> > of the Internet.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Mike

-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From David_Allen_AB63 at post.harvard.edu  Mon Oct  1 17:35:29 2012
From: David_Allen_AB63 at post.harvard.edu (David Allen)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 17:35:29 -0400
Subject: [governance] Principles
In-Reply-To: <E7F950D1E0C75744892C09CBFA0EB3522CF8435755@ARTEMIS.pers.ad.uni-graz.at>
References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com> <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org> <CACAaNxhbB9GNvropAXac41J0vCeG7ofX9dRJrSLFKcjMpbhSbQ@mail.gmail.com> <CA+=oXBJVT+n9A9uKSeh5qu3ox+Qw99xSTci+s6bSXaYnWC1_gA@mail.gmail.com> <02350A3A-0235-4E7A-B1D0-5D6ED84AEE4C@safernet.org.br> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <506944F6.1090501@itforchange.net> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3C5@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <1025562875.8772.1349081476302.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f27> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3CE@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <04e201cd9fd4$93de6080$bb9b2180$@gmail.com>	<5069A3AF.7060500@gmx.net> <005c01cd9fe2$30ca9320$925fb960$@gmail.com> <4867EA09-80AD-40ED-9487-56E0ED02C9F3@post.harvard.edu>,<20121001222306.31a0349c@quill.bollow.ch> <E7F950D1E0C75744892C09CBFA0EB3522CF8435755@ARTEMIS.pers.ad.uni-graz.at>
Message-ID: <6819FD91-3470-43FD-AA07-1A7D1268C8FA@post.harvard.edu>

hmmm ...

> We have to think about how in the 'post-democratic' order (in the  
> sense of post-nation state-based democracy) order legitimacy can be  
> conveyed in the process of producing norms.

and
> ... in post-democratic trans-national constellations ...

So, we _presume_ a post-democratic order - so that we can legitimize  
something besides 'democracy'?

I don't think so.  Such logic is circular.

And:

> We need to focus not on democracy as a concept, but legitimacy as a  
> goal.


As Norbert has pointed out, the Nazi's were legitimate - to use the  
case, which is cited now, all over the web, ad nauseam.  To go beyond  
that case, Stalin still has many, many adherents in Russia.  A man who  
saw to the slaughter of millions and millions.  I can come up with  
some heinous American examples, I am sure, with only a little effort.   
How about the Ku Klux Klan, who just for instance ruled the US state  
of Indiana (where I am a native) through at least the 1930s?  And of  
course saw to lynchings, and all manner of the ugliest and most  
despicable acts.  They had legitimacy.

Legitimacy, as the target?  I don't think so.

On the other hand:

> human rights-based, accountable government (and good governance)  
> based on real, periodic, secret elections.



> We need to ensure that the rules we aim for are materially  
> reflective of the needs of those to whom they are applied.

These could be first elements in a potentially productive discussion,  
to address the serious problems of greater scale and so complexity.

_If_ they do not presume answers, but instead are in a spirit of real  
investigation.

For instance:

> Just as good democracy does nationally, multistakeholder-baesd  
> decision-making have heightened input legitimacy and lead to  
> normative outcomes that are materially reflective of the  
> individual’s central needs ...

While counter cases simply abound - and so invalidate the proposition  
- at the same time there are successful, working instances which could  
be useful in thinking about possibilities, going forward.

Once again, only if in a spirit of investigation, oh so early on in  
the process, without presumption of conclusions (which is the bane of  
successful intellectual work ... which dooms any such effort before it  
is begun).


Certainly though, any useful discussion will begin and end with the  
interplay of power relations.  As I memorably heard Kenneth Arrow say,  
oh so many years ago, (of course the Kenneth Arrow of last century's  
mathematical neoclassical microeconomics, perhaps the first Economics  
Nobel, certainly one of the first):  After he had spent an hour  
explaining the calculus of perfect competition, he turned and said  
(words to the effect):  Or maybe, this result is rendered immaterial  
by the ability of two men to overpower one person.

Democracy is about the little person retaining power, even in the face  
of power accumulations, be that by economic forces such as corporate  
behemoths who disenfranchise the little guy, or by autocrats bent on  
taking from their populace for their own benefit.


Notwithstanding, with the greatest respect for a thesis about to be  
published.

David

On Oct 1, 2012, at 4:48 PM, Kettemann, Matthias (matthias.kettemann at uni-graz.at 
) wrote:

> Dear all
>
> though I enjoy this discussion I think there are two underlying  
> problems. 1) Most notions of democracy used in this (and a lot of  
> other) debate(s) are state-centred. They are no longer tenable as a  
> legitimating basis for the production of rules in transnational  
> constellations. To ensure that they are legitimate, we need a new  
> concept of democrac. 2)  Discussants often mix  up two different  
> notions of democracy: the formal and the material one. Formally,  
> democracy demands that each vote be counted. But that's not enough.  
> Over the years there has been developed an international cumstomary  
> law basis of what democracy materially truly means - human rights- 
> based, accountable government (and good governance) based on real,  
> periodic, secret elections.
>
> What does this mean for our debate? We need to focus not on  
> democracy as a concept, but legitimacy as a goal.
>
> How does this work? First of all, we need to look at the material,  
> not the formal, notion of democracy. We need to ensure that the  
> rules we aim for are materially reflective of the needs of those to  
> whom they are applied.
>
> Second, 'one (wo)man, one vote' is a nice slogan, but it's just no  
> enough in our post-national constellation. We have to think about  
> how in the 'post-democratic' order (in the sense of post-nation  
> state-based democracy) order legitimacy can be conveyed in the  
> process of producing norms.
>
> Now, what does this mean for the Internet Governance debate? We need  
> to identify the best process of how to convey legitimacy. This  
> process, as has been pointed out, is multistakeholderism. But  
> multistakeholderism is not a form of participatory democracy; it is  
> a new form of conveying legitimacy in post-democratic trans-national  
> constellations.
>
> Just as good democracy does nationally, multistakeholder-baesd  
> decision-making have heightened input legitimacy and lead to  
> normative outcomes that are materially reflective of the  
> individual’s central needs (and thus have high output legitimacy).
>
> This is one of the points I'm making in the published version of my  
> PhD which Eleven International will publish in autumn.
>
> So less talk about democracy, and more talk about legitimacy.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Matthias
>
> --
> Dr. Matthias C. Kettemann, LL.M. (Harvard)
> Institute of International Law and International Relations
> University of Graz
> E | matthias.kettemann at uni-graz.at
> Blog | internationallawandtheinternet.blogspot.com
> ________________________________________
> Von: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org 
> ] im Auftrag von Norbert Bollow [nb at bollow.ch]
> Gesendet: Montag, 01. Oktober 2012 22:23
> An: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> Betreff: Re: [governance] Principles
>
> Dear all
>
> I'm rather alarmed by Wolfgang's assertion that "Multistakeholderism
> *IS* the highest form of participatory democracy".
>
> I would suggest that the main point of democracy is to safeguard the
> public interest against being overpowered by powerful particular
> interests.
>
> By contrast, multistakeholderism allows all stakeholders to  
> participate
> without restriction. This implies that it cannot contain adequate
> processes for making decisions on those questions which, due to
> significant conflicts between different legitimate interest, cannot be
> resolved by rough consensus.
>
> It is true that democratic governance systems tend to have
> imperfections, and I'm all in favor of working on fixing any and all
> bugs that can be clearly identified and for which a known solution
> strategy exists. One of these bugs is the current tendency of
> governments (including in particular the judicial branch) to make
> Internet related decisions without understanding what they're doing.
> As you know I'm proposing to address this bug by means of a
> multistakeholder process to create informative recommendation
> documents to inform them better.
> ( http://enhanced-cooperation.org/RFA/1 )
>
> But please let's avoid talking about multistakeholderism as if it in
> itself somehow were an improved form of democracy. It isn't.
>
> Further, I agree with the points made by Michael Gurstein and David
> Allen.
>
> Greetings,
> Norbert
>
>
> David Allen <David_Allen_AB63 at post.harvard.edu> wrote:
>
>> How many times has this list been around this track ...?
>>
>> Norbert Klein rightly brings to attention the difficulties to which
>> democracy can be prey.
>>
>> And Winston Churchill helped us understand - in that very sober
>> light
>> - where we stand today:  "... democracy is the worst form of
>> government except all the others that have been tried."
>>
>> By no stretch of the imagination does so-called multi-stakeholderism
>> hold out prospect to be a replacement.
>>
>> That does not of course remove the terrible blemishes democracy may
>> create.  In fact, another Churchill quote holds that:  "The best
>> argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the
>> average voter."
>>
>> What is clear is that we just might benefit from some quality
>> thinking and some hard, collaborative work, to try to understand how
>> representativeness may be instantiated, in a much-more-connected
>> world, and especially in a world that now truly becomes global.
>> Where agreement among very many, and many very different, actors is
>> now often urgent.  But more and more difficult to cobble together,
>> because of the scale and attendant complexity.  Yet, ultimate power
>> in individual citizen hands is therefore all the more paramount, as
>> the starting point.
>>
>> Rather than shibboleths, as seemingly easy - but really just facile
>> - answers, we might apply ourselves to the serious work at hand.
>>
>> As Michael Gurstein has encouraged.
>>
>> David
>>
>> On Oct 1, 2012, at 10:36 AM, michael gurstein wrote:
>>
>>> Very good question Norbert and I well accept your cases and I
>>> don't have any easy answers (but nor I think, does anyone else…
>>>
>>> Two things though, I know for sure that governance by self-
>>> appointed, essentially unaccountable "stakeholders" is not
>>> "democracy" at least by any definition I understand, and also that
>>> we probably need to have some sort of collective rethinking/
>>> redefinition of what we do mean by democracy in an age of
>>> instantaneous and essentially free and massified communication and
>>> information, the capacity for borderless (and defenseless) action
>>> at a distance, mass literacy, and other manifestations of the
>>> technologically transformed world that has emerged and would be
>>> completely unrecognizable to the conceptualizers of representative
>>> democracy in the 18th and 19th century.
>>>
>>> Issues of scale and unit (macro and micro the neighborhood, the
>>> tribe, the province, the nation, the world);  issues of
>>> accountability and transparency (increased opportunity for and
>>> increased means to avoid), issues of efficacy (personal,
>>> collective, associative) and a wide range of others need to be
>>> accounted for and I think "we" as a species have only just started
>>> that rethinking process…
>>>
>>> In the meantime abandoning something that we do know and
>>> understand and have some experience with for leaps in the dark
>>> seems to me to be a not very useful place to begin.
>>>
>>> M
>>>
>>> From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org ] On Behalf Of
>>> Norbert Klein Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 10:08 AM
>>> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> Subject: Re: [governance] Principles
>>>
>>> Interesting and important.
>>> My question relates to this part: “the degree to which such
>>> processes could at all be called ``democratic`` at least within
>>> any definition of the term that I (or I would expect most of us)
>>> would understand.”
>>> There is an assumption what “most of us” would expect – but it is
>>> not defined.
>>> So I assume – maybe wrongly? - it is a kind of “one man (or woman)
>>> one vote”? If not – so what? Please elaborate.
>>> This surely was a good principle – it was used a lot arguing, for
>>> example, against the South African Apartheid regime which rejected
>>> it. Was it a triumph of democracy when the National Socialists
>>> (the “Nationalsozialisten” = Nazi”), with the help of the German
>>> National People's Party, were victorious in elections in March 1933
>>> – starting a dark age of German history, tremendous damage on many
>>> others too.
>>> “Demo-cracy” hints at a concept that the will of the people
>>> governs. But how?
>>> The Cambodian People's Party has gained more and more seats in the
>>> National Assembly through every vote since 1993 – but the UN
>>> Special Rapporteur on the Situation of Human Rights in Cambodia has
>>> raised serious concerns because the electoral system – especially
>>> the National Election Committee – is controlled by government
>>> appointees, NOT representing the plurality of parties in the
>>> National Assembly. And thousands and thousands of people
>>> forcefully evicted from their traditional areas of residency have
>>> not only lost their homes, but they are no longer on residency
>>> related voter lists. Is the one-country-one-vote - on the UN level
>>> – more democratic, where 14 million Cambodia have the same
>>> vote-weight as 235+ million of Indonesia?
>>> The question is not only: What is democratic? – In the actual
>>> situations where we live it means also: How do we move towards the
>>> good goal that “the people's” benefits (not the majority of the
>>> people who voted in the Nazis in Germany, I add, without offering
>>> at the same time a rationale for my personal opinion here) are
>>> central? It is on this background that I well understand the short
>>> statement (which is open to misunderstandings) about Internet
>>> Governance: “Multistakeholderism *IS* the highest form of
>>> participatory democracy” If it is not – so what else, and how?
>>>
>>> Norbert Klein
>>> Phnom Penh/Cambodia
>>>
>>> =
>>>
>>> On 10/1/2012 7:59 PM, michael gurstein wrote:
>>> Wolfgang and all,
>>>
>>> I`ve just had an opportunity to observe at somewhat close hand a
>>> series of
>>> multi-stakeholder processes at work (in Agriculture planning) in
>>> several
>>> African countries... I was quite impressed for a number of reasons
>>> which I
>>> won`t go into here (I`m currently working on the report...
>>>
>>> However, one conclusion that I would draw is that while
>>> `multi-stakeholderism` is in at least some instances very
>>> effective as an
>>> inclusive, let`s say `participative` management tool it is very
>>> far from
>>> what I, or I think almost anyone would call ``democratic``
>>> (unless, as in
>>> some I think, quite perverse instances, one chooses to conflate
>>> the notions
>>> of management with democracy).
>>>
>>> The problem is that while multi-stakeholderism is inclusive of
>>> interests it
>>> is not necessarily accountable or representative of or for those
>>> interests.
>>> So for example, while a national or reagional farmers` union might
>>> be a very
>>> effective stakeholder representative of the interests of small
>>> holder farmers the precise process of accountability and
>>> representivity is in many
>>> instances a very open question subject to for example, the
>>> personailities of
>>> individuals, literacy, access to media and information, political
>>> interference etc. etc. The latter caveats do not preclude the former
>>> affirmations but they do strongly bracket the degree to which such
>>> processes
>>> could at all be called ``democratic`` at least within any
>>> definition of the
>>> term that I (or I would expect most of us) would understand.
>>>
>>> I think your broad objective of pursuing a framework for multi-
>>> stakeholder
>>> governance of the Internet is a worthwhile one and one I hope to
>>> contribute
>>> to in Baku, however, I think a useful outcome of that initiative
>>> would still
>>> leave open the question of overall democractic governance and
>>> accountability
>>> of the Internet.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Mike
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From gurstein at gmail.com  Mon Oct  1 18:07:19 2012
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 18:07:19 -0400
Subject: [governance] Principles
In-Reply-To: <E7F950D1E0C75744892C09CBFA0EB3522CF8435755@ARTEMIS.pers.ad.uni-graz.at>
References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com>	<50656139.4070604@cis-india.org>	<CACAaNxhbB9GNvropAXac41J0vCeG7ofX9dRJrSLFKcjMpbhSbQ@mail.gmail.com>	<CA+=oXBJVT+n9A9uKSeh5qu3ox+Qw99xSTci+s6bSXaYnWC1_gA@mail.gmail.com>	<02350A3A-0235-4E7A-B1D0-5D6ED84AEE4C@safernet.org.br>	<855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>	<506944F6.1090501@itforchange.net>	<2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3C5@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>	<1025562875.8772.1349081476302.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f27>	<2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3CE@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>	<04e201cd9fd4$93de6080$bb9b2180$@gmail.com>	<5069A3AF.7060500@gmx.net>	<005c01cd9fe2$30ca9320$925fb960$@gmail.com>	<4867EA09-80AD-40ED-9487-56E0ED02C9F3@post.harvard.edu>,<20121001222306.31a0349c@quill.bollow.ch> <E7F950D1E0C75744892C09CBFA0EB3522CF8435755@ARTEMIS.pers.ad.uni-graz.at>
Message-ID: <02e801cda021$20e1db50$62a591f0$@gmail.com>

A few questions/comments Matthias...

 

-----Original Message-----
From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
[mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Kettemann,
Matthias (matthias.kettemann at uni-graz.at)
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 4:49 PM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Norbert Bollow
Subject: AW: [governance] Principles

 

Dear all

 

though I enjoy this discussion I think there are two underlying problems. 1)
Most notions of democracy used in this (and a lot of other) debate(s) are
state-centred. They are no longer tenable as a legitimating basis for the
production of rules in transnational constellations. 

[MG>] Who says and why should we accept your or anyone's assertion that
"they are no longer tenable... This seems to be a very presumptuous position
especially since it is asserted not argued for...

 

To ensure that they are legitimate, we need a new concept of democrac. 

[MG>] Again, who says so and why should I or anyone take this opinion as
fact...

 

 

2)  Discussants often mix  up two different notions of democracy: the formal
and the material one. Formally, democracy demands that each vote be counted.
But that's not enough. Over the years there has been developed an
international cumstomary law basis of what democracy materially truly means
- human rights-based, accountable government (and good governance) based on
real, periodic, secret elections. 

[MG>] This seems to me to be confused/confusing although it may just be
linguistic difficulties... It seems to me that "democracy" rather goes
beyond "demanding" that each vote be counted to ensuring some degree and
means of control over the governors by the governed... having each vote be
counted is necessary for this but certainly not sufficient... Your assertion
concerning the difference between a "formal" definition and a "material"
definition seems to me to include a very high degree of overlap (viz. real,
periodic, secret elections which you asserted as being the very essence of
the "formal" defintion...

 

 

What does this mean for our debate? We need to focus not on democracy as a
concept, but legitimacy as a goal.

[MG>] I really have no idea what this means.  I'm not sure who if anyone has
(or would) simply focus on "democracy as a concept"... democracy is most
certainly a concept but as such it needs to be unpacked, translated, given
"materiality"... Apart from straw men, I would assume that anyone discussing
this here would move into this realm and beyond simply "democracy as a
concept"...

 

 

How does this work? First of all, we need to look at the material, not the
formal, notion of democracy. We need to ensure that the rules we aim for are
materially reflective of the needs of those to whom they are applied. 

[MG>] Yes, see above... So what...

 

 

Second, 'one (wo)man, one vote' is a nice slogan, but it's just no enough in
our post-national constellation. We have to think about how in the
'post-democratic' order (in the sense of post-nation state-based democracy)
order legitimacy can be conveyed in the process of producing norms. 

[MG>] Again a straw person argument... ('one (wo)man, one vote' is a nice
slogan')... and again I have no idea what this (following) could mean. "how
in the 'post-democratic' order (in the sense of post-nation state-based
democracy) order legitimacy can be conveyed in the process of producing
norms."

 

 

Now, what does this mean for the Internet Governance debate? We need to
identify the best process of how to convey legitimacy. This process, as has
been pointed out, is multistakeholderism. But multistakeholderism is not a
form of participatory democracy; it is a new form of conveying legitimacy in
post-democratic trans-national constellations. 

[MG>] Legitimacy is in the eye of the beholder(s)... One man's legitimacy is
another person's bastard child.... I agree that "multistakeholderism is (an
attempt) at a new form of conveying legitimacy etc.etc." how successful that
attempt is, is I think the subject of this discussion...

 

 

Just as good democracy does nationally, multistakeholder-baesd
decision-making have heightened input legitimacy and lead to normative
outcomes that are materially reflective of the individual's central needs
(and thus have high output legitimacy). 

[MG>] Again, I have no idea what this means...

 

 

This is one of the points I'm making in the published version of my PhD
which Eleven International will publish in autumn.

 

So less talk about democracy, and more talk about legitimacy. 

[MG>] I think we need to talk about both and recognize that both terms are
subject to a wide range of interpretations/evaluations and to a considerable
degree are in some state of (technologically induced) transition to an end
point which is as yet unclear.

 

Best,

 

M 

 

Kind regards

 

Matthias

 

--

Dr. Matthias C. Kettemann, LL.M. (Harvard) Institute of International Law
and International Relations University of Graz E |
<mailto:matthias.kettemann at uni-graz.at> matthias.kettemann at uni-graz.at Blog
| internationallawandtheinternet.blogspot.com

________________________________________

Von:  <mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org>
governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
[governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] im Auftrag von Norbert Bollow
[nb at bollow.ch]

Gesendet: Montag, 01. Oktober 2012 22:23

An:  <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org> governance at lists.igcaucus.org

Betreff: Re: [governance] Principles

 

Dear all

 

I'm rather alarmed by Wolfgang's assertion that "Multistakeholderism

*IS* the highest form of participatory democracy".

 

I would suggest that the main point of democracy is to safeguard the public
interest against being overpowered by powerful particular interests.

 

By contrast, multistakeholderism allows all stakeholders to participate
without restriction. This implies that it cannot contain adequate processes
for making decisions on those questions which, due to significant conflicts
between different legitimate interest, cannot be resolved by rough
consensus.

 

It is true that democratic governance systems tend to have imperfections,
and I'm all in favor of working on fixing any and all bugs that can be
clearly identified and for which a known solution strategy exists. One of
these bugs is the current tendency of governments (including in particular
the judicial branch) to make Internet related decisions without
understanding what they're doing.

As you know I'm proposing to address this bug by means of a multistakeholder
process to create informative recommendation documents to inform them
better.

(  <http://enhanced-cooperation.org/RFA/1>
http://enhanced-cooperation.org/RFA/1 )

 

But please let's avoid talking about multistakeholderism as if it in itself
somehow were an improved form of democracy. It isn't.

 

Further, I agree with the points made by Michael Gurstein and David Allen.

 

Greetings,

Norbert

 

 

David Allen < <mailto:David_Allen_AB63 at post.harvard.edu>
David_Allen_AB63 at post.harvard.edu> wrote:

 

> How many times has this list been around this track ...?

> 

> Norbert Klein rightly brings to attention the difficulties to which 

> democracy can be prey.

> 

> And Winston Churchill helped us understand - in that very sober light

> - where we stand today:  "... democracy is the worst form of 

> government except all the others that have been tried."

> 

> By no stretch of the imagination does so-called multi-stakeholderism 

> hold out prospect to be a replacement.

> 

> That does not of course remove the terrible blemishes democracy may 

> create.  In fact, another Churchill quote holds that:  "The best 

> argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the 

> average voter."

> 

> What is clear is that we just might benefit from some quality thinking 

> and some hard, collaborative work, to try to understand how 

> representativeness may be instantiated, in a much-more-connected 

> world, and especially in a world that now truly becomes global.

> Where agreement among very many, and many very different, actors is 

> now often urgent.  But more and more difficult to cobble together, 

> because of the scale and attendant complexity.  Yet, ultimate power in 

> individual citizen hands is therefore all the more paramount, as the 

> starting point.

> 

> Rather than shibboleths, as seemingly easy - but really just facile

> - answers, we might apply ourselves to the serious work at hand.

> 

> As Michael Gurstein has encouraged.

> 

> David

> 

> On Oct 1, 2012, at 10:36 AM, michael gurstein wrote:

> 

> > Very good question Norbert and I well accept your cases and I don't 

> > have any easy answers (but nor I think, does anyone else.

> >

> > Two things though, I know for sure that governance by self- 

> > appointed, essentially unaccountable "stakeholders" is not 

> > "democracy" at least by any definition I understand, and also that 

> > we probably need to have some sort of collective rethinking/ 

> > redefinition of what we do mean by democracy in an age of 

> > instantaneous and essentially free and massified communication and 

> > information, the capacity for borderless (and defenseless) action at 

> > a distance, mass literacy, and other manifestations of the 

> > technologically transformed world that has emerged and would be 

> > completely unrecognizable to the conceptualizers of representative 

> > democracy in the 18th and 19th century.

> >

> > Issues of scale and unit (macro and micro the neighborhood, the 

> > tribe, the province, the nation, the world);  issues of 

> > accountability and transparency (increased opportunity for and 

> > increased means to avoid), issues of efficacy (personal, collective, 

> > associative) and a wide range of others need to be accounted for and 

> > I think "we" as a species have only just started that rethinking 

> > process.

> >

> > In the meantime abandoning something that we do know and understand 

> > and have some experience with for leaps in the dark seems to me to 

> > be a not very useful place to begin.

> >

> > M

> >

> > From:  <mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org>
governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org

> >  <mailto:[mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org%20]>
[mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org ] On Behalf Of Norbert 

> > Klein Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 10:08 AM

> > To:  <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
governance at lists.igcaucus.org

> > Subject: Re: [governance] Principles

> >

> > Interesting and important.

> > My question relates to this part: "the degree to which such 

> > processes could at all be called ``democratic`` at least within any 

> > definition of the term that I (or I would expect most of us) would 

> > understand."

> > There is an assumption what "most of us" would expect - but it is 

> > not defined.

> > So I assume - maybe wrongly? - it is a kind of "one man (or woman) 

> > one vote"? If not - so what? Please elaborate.

> > This surely was a good principle - it was used a lot arguing, for 

> > example, against the South African Apartheid regime which rejected 

> > it. Was it a triumph of democracy when the National Socialists (the 

> > "Nationalsozialisten" = Nazi"), with the help of the German National 

> > People's Party, were victorious in elections in March 1933 - 

> > starting a dark age of German history, tremendous damage on many 

> > others too.

> > "Demo-cracy" hints at a concept that the will of the people governs. 

> > But how?

> > The Cambodian People's Party has gained more and more seats in the 

> > National Assembly through every vote since 1993 - but the UN Special 

> > Rapporteur on the Situation of Human Rights in Cambodia has raised 

> > serious concerns because the electoral system - especially the 

> > National Election Committee - is controlled by government 

> > appointees, NOT representing the plurality of parties in the 

> > National Assembly. And thousands and thousands of people forcefully 

> > evicted from their traditional areas of residency have not only lost 

> > their homes, but they are no longer on residency related voter 

> > lists. Is the one-country-one-vote - on the UN level - more 

> > democratic, where 14 million Cambodia have the same vote-weight as 

> > 235+ million of Indonesia?

> > The question is not only: What is democratic? - In the actual 

> > situations where we live it means also: How do we move towards the 

> > good goal that "the people's" benefits (not the majority of the 

> > people who voted in the Nazis in Germany, I add, without offering at 

> > the same time a rationale for my personal opinion here) are central? 

> > It is on this background that I well understand the short statement 

> > (which is open to misunderstandings) about Internet

> > Governance: "Multistakeholderism *IS* the highest form of 

> > participatory democracy" If it is not - so what else, and how?

> >

> > Norbert Klein

> > Phnom Penh/Cambodia

> >

> > =

> >

> > On 10/1/2012 7:59 PM, michael gurstein wrote:

> > Wolfgang and all,

> >

> > I`ve just had an opportunity to observe at somewhat close hand a 

> > series of multi-stakeholder processes at work (in Agriculture 

> > planning) in several African countries... I was quite impressed for 

> > a number of reasons which I won`t go into here (I`m currently 

> > working on the report...

> >

> > However, one conclusion that I would draw is that while 

> > `multi-stakeholderism` is in at least some instances very effective 

> > as an inclusive, let`s say `participative` management tool it is 

> > very far from what I, or I think almost anyone would call 

> > ``democratic`` (unless, as in some I think, quite perverse 

> > instances, one chooses to conflate the notions of management with 

> > democracy).

> >

> > The problem is that while multi-stakeholderism is inclusive of 

> > interests it is not necessarily accountable or representative of or 

> > for those interests.

> > So for example, while a national or reagional farmers` union might 

> > be a very effective stakeholder representative of the interests of 

> > small holder farmers the precise process of accountability and 

> > representivity is in many instances a very open question subject to 

> > for example, the personailities of individuals, literacy, access to 

> > media and information, political interference etc. etc. The latter 

> > caveats do not preclude the former affirmations but they do strongly 

> > bracket the degree to which such processes could at all be called 

> > ``democratic`` at least within any definition of the term that I (or 

> > I would expect most of us) would understand.

> >

> > I think your broad objective of pursuing a framework for multi- 

> > stakeholder governance of the Internet is a worthwhile one and one I 

> > hope to contribute to in Baku, however, I think a useful outcome of 

> > that initiative would still leave open the question of overall 

> > democractic governance and accountability of the Internet.

> >

> > Best,

> >

> > Mike

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121001/518001ef/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From kovenronald at aol.com  Mon Oct  1 18:10:40 2012
From: kovenronald at aol.com (Koven Ronald)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 18:10:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [governance] Principles
In-Reply-To: <6819FD91-3470-43FD-AA07-1A7D1268C8FA@post.harvard.edu>
References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com> <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org> <CACAaNxhbB9GNvropAXac41J0vCeG7ofX9dRJrSLFKcjMpbhSbQ@mail.gmail.com> <CA+=oXBJVT+n9A9uKSeh5qu3ox+Qw99xSTci+s6bSXaYnWC1_gA@mail.gmail.com> <02350A3A-0235-4E7A-B1D0-5D6ED84AEE4C@safernet.org.br> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <506944F6.1090501@itforchange.net> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3C5@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <1025562875.8772.1349081476302.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f27> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3CE@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <04e201cd9fd4$93de6080$bb9b2180$@gmail.com>	<5069A3AF.7060500@gmx.net> <005c01cd9fe2$30ca9320$925fb960$@gmail.com> <4867EA09-80AD-40ED-9487-56E0ED02C9F3@post.harvard.edu>,<20121001222306.31a0349c@quill.bollow.ch> <E7F950D1E0C75744892C09CBFA0EB3522CF8435755@ARTEMIS.pers.ad.uni-graz.at> <6819FD91-3470-43FD-AA07-1A7D1268C8FA@post.harvard.edu>
Message-ID: <8CF6E38BA1CF2C1-2348-75191@webmail-d167.sysops.aol.com>

Dear All --


This discussion really can't be serious. It opens up an incredible can of worms and seems to be posited on the notion that the Internet has revoked the 2,500 previous years of political philosophy and history. The nation state is going to be with us for the foreseeable future (that is to say, our lifetimes) as the source and locus of law and power. The Internet has not put an end to the nation state, much as some people on this list would like to believe. Try telling a traffic policeman that he can't arrest you because you're not a citizen but a netizen,  and see where you end up.


Cheers, Rony Koven



-----Original Message-----
From: David Allen <David_Allen_AB63 at post.harvard.edu>
To: governance <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
Sent: Mon, Oct 1, 2012 11:41 pm
Subject: Re: [governance] Principles


hmmm ...

> We have to think about how in the 'post-democratic' order (in the  
> sense of post-nation state-based democracy) order legitimacy can be  
> conveyed in the process of producing norms.

and
> ... in post-democratic trans-national constellations ...

So, we _presume_ a post-democratic order - so that we can legitimize  
something besides 'democracy'?

I don't think so.  Such logic is circular.

And:

> We need to focus not on democracy as a concept, but legitimacy as a  
> goal.


As Norbert has pointed out, the Nazi's were legitimate - to use the  
case, which is cited now, all over the web, ad nauseam.  To go beyond  
that case, Stalin still has many, many adherents in Russia.  A man who  
saw to the slaughter of millions and millions.  I can come up with  
some heinous American examples, I am sure, with only a little effort.   
How about the Ku Klux Klan, who just for instance ruled the US state  
of Indiana (where I am a native) through at least the 1930s?  And of  
course saw to lynchings, and all manner of the ugliest and most  
despicable acts.  They had legitimacy.

Legitimacy, as the target?  I don't think so.

On the other hand:

> human rights-based, accountable government (and good governance)  
> based on real, periodic, secret elections.



> We need to ensure that the rules we aim for are materially  
> reflective of the needs of those to whom they are applied.

These could be first elements in a potentially productive discussion,  
to address the serious problems of greater scale and so complexity.

_If_ they do not presume answers, but instead are in a spirit of real  
investigation.

For instance:

> Just as good democracy does nationally, multistakeholder-baesd  
> decision-making have heightened input legitimacy and lead to  
> normative outcomes that are materially reflective of the  
> individual’s central needs ...

While counter cases simply abound - and so invalidate the proposition  
- at the same time there are successful, working instances which could  
be useful in thinking about possibilities, going forward.

Once again, only if in a spirit of investigation, oh so early on in  
the process, without presumption of conclusions (which is the bane of  
successful intellectual work ... which dooms any such effort before it  
is begun).


Certainly though, any useful discussion will begin and end with the  
interplay of power relations.  As I memorably heard Kenneth Arrow say,  
oh so many years ago, (of course the Kenneth Arrow of last century's  
mathematical neoclassical microeconomics, perhaps the first Economics  
Nobel, certainly one of the first):  After he had spent an hour  
explaining the calculus of perfect competition, he turned and said  
(words to the effect):  Or maybe, this result is rendered immaterial  
by the ability of two men to overpower one person.

Democracy is about the little person retaining power, even in the face  
of power accumulations, be that by economic forces such as corporate  
behemoths who disenfranchise the little guy, or by autocrats bent on  
taking from their populace for their own benefit.


Notwithstanding, with the greatest respect for a thesis about to be  
published.

David

On Oct 1, 2012, at 4:48 PM, Kettemann, Matthias (matthias.kettemann at uni-graz.at 
) wrote:

> Dear all
>
> though I enjoy this discussion I think there are two underlying  
> problems. 1) Most notions of democracy used in this (and a lot of  
> other) debate(s) are state-centred. They are no longer tenable as a  
> legitimating basis for the production of rules in transnational  
> constellations. To ensure that they are legitimate, we need a new  
> concept of democrac. 2)  Discussants often mix  up two different  
> notions of democracy: the formal and the material one. Formally,  
> democracy demands that each vote be counted. But that's not enough.  
> Over the years there has been developed an international cumstomary  
> law basis of what democracy materially truly means - human rights- 
> based, accountable government (and good governance) based on real,  
> periodic, secret elections.
>
> What does this mean for our debate? We need to focus not on  
> democracy as a concept, but legitimacy as a goal.
>
> How does this work? First of all, we need to look at the material,  
> not the formal, notion of democracy. We need to ensure that the  
> rules we aim for are materially reflective of the needs of those to  
> whom they are applied.
>
> Second, 'one (wo)man, one vote' is a nice slogan, but it's just no  
> enough in our post-national constellation. We have to think about  
> how in the 'post-democratic' order (in the sense of post-nation  
> state-based democracy) order legitimacy can be conveyed in the  
> process of producing norms.
>
> Now, what does this mean for the Internet Governance debate? We need  
> to identify the best process of how to convey legitimacy. This  
> process, as has been pointed out, is multistakeholderism. But  
> multistakeholderism is not a form of participatory democracy; it is  
> a new form of conveying legitimacy in post-democratic trans-national  
> constellations.
>
> Just as good democracy does nationally, multistakeholder-baesd  
> decision-making have heightened input legitimacy and lead to  
> normative outcomes that are materially reflective of the  
> individual’s central needs (and thus have high output legitimacy).
>
> This is one of the points I'm making in the published version of my  
> PhD which Eleven International will publish in autumn.
>
> So less talk about democracy, and more talk about legitimacy.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Matthias
>
> --
> Dr. Matthias C. Kettemann, LL.M. (Harvard)
> Institute of International Law and International Relations
> University of Graz
> E | matthias.kettemann at uni-graz.at
> Blog | internationallawandtheinternet.blogspot.com
> ________________________________________
> Von: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org 

> ] im Auftrag von Norbert Bollow [nb at bollow.ch]
> Gesendet: Montag, 01. Oktober 2012 22:23
> An: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> Betreff: Re: [governance] Principles
>
> Dear all
>
> I'm rather alarmed by Wolfgang's assertion that "Multistakeholderism
> *IS* the highest form of participatory democracy".
>
> I would suggest that the main point of democracy is to safeguard the
> public interest against being overpowered by powerful particular
> interests.
>
> By contrast, multistakeholderism allows all stakeholders to  
> participate
> without restriction. This implies that it cannot contain adequate
> processes for making decisions on those questions which, due to
> significant conflicts between different legitimate interest, cannot be
> resolved by rough consensus.
>
> It is true that democratic governance systems tend to have
> imperfections, and I'm all in favor of working on fixing any and all
> bugs that can be clearly identified and for which a known solution
> strategy exists. One of these bugs is the current tendency of
> governments (including in particular the judicial branch) to make
> Internet related decisions without understanding what they're doing.
> As you know I'm proposing to address this bug by means of a
> multistakeholder process to create informative recommendation
> documents to inform them better.
> ( http://enhanced-cooperation.org/RFA/1 )
>
> But please let's avoid talking about multistakeholderism as if it in
> itself somehow were an improved form of democracy. It isn't.
>
> Further, I agree with the points made by Michael Gurstein and David
> Allen.
>
> Greetings,
> Norbert
>
>
> David Allen <David_Allen_AB63 at post.harvard.edu> wrote:
>
>> How many times has this list been around this track ...?
>>
>> Norbert Klein rightly brings to attention the difficulties to which
>> democracy can be prey.
>>
>> And Winston Churchill helped us understand - in that very sober
>> light
>> - where we stand today:  "... democracy is the worst form of
>> government except all the others that have been tried."
>>
>> By no stretch of the imagination does so-called multi-stakeholderism
>> hold out prospect to be a replacement.
>>
>> That does not of course remove the terrible blemishes democracy may
>> create.  In fact, another Churchill quote holds that:  "The best
>> argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the
>> average voter."
>>
>> What is clear is that we just might benefit from some quality
>> thinking and some hard, collaborative work, to try to understand how
>> representativeness may be instantiated, in a much-more-connected
>> world, and especially in a world that now truly becomes global.
>> Where agreement among very many, and many very different, actors is
>> now often urgent.  But more and more difficult to cobble together,
>> because of the scale and attendant complexity.  Yet, ultimate power
>> in individual citizen hands is therefore all the more paramount, as
>> the starting point.
>>
>> Rather than shibboleths, as seemingly easy - but really just facile
>> - answers, we might apply ourselves to the serious work at hand.
>>
>> As Michael Gurstein has encouraged.
>>
>> David
>>
>> On Oct 1, 2012, at 10:36 AM, michael gurstein wrote:
>>
>>> Very good question Norbert and I well accept your cases and I
>>> don't have any easy answers (but nor I think, does anyone else…
>>>
>>> Two things though, I know for sure that governance by self-
>>> appointed, essentially unaccountable "stakeholders" is not
>>> "democracy" at least by any definition I understand, and also that
>>> we probably need to have some sort of collective rethinking/
>>> redefinition of what we do mean by democracy in an age of
>>> instantaneous and essentially free and massified communication and
>>> information, the capacity for borderless (and defenseless) action
>>> at a distance, mass literacy, and other manifestations of the
>>> technologically transformed world that has emerged and would be
>>> completely unrecognizable to the conceptualizers of representative
>>> democracy in the 18th and 19th century.
>>>
>>> Issues of scale and unit (macro and micro the neighborhood, the
>>> tribe, the province, the nation, the world);  issues of
>>> accountability and transparency (increased opportunity for and
>>> increased means to avoid), issues of efficacy (personal,
>>> collective, associative) and a wide range of others need to be
>>> accounted for and I think "we" as a species have only just started
>>> that rethinking process…
>>>
>>> In the meantime abandoning something that we do know and
>>> understand and have some experience with for leaps in the dark
>>> seems to me to be a not very useful place to begin.
>>>
>>> M
>>>
>>> From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org ] On Behalf Of
>>> Norbert Klein Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 10:08 AM
>>> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> Subject: Re: [governance] Principles
>>>
>>> Interesting and important.
>>> My question relates to this part: “the degree to which such
>>> processes could at all be called ``democratic`` at least within
>>> any definition of the term that I (or I would expect most of us)
>>> would understand.”
>>> There is an assumption what “most of us” would expect – but it is
>>> not defined.
>>> So I assume – maybe wrongly? - it is a kind of “one man (or woman)
>>> one vote”? If not – so what? Please elaborate.
>>> This surely was a good principle – it was used a lot arguing, for
>>> example, against the South African Apartheid regime which rejected
>>> it. Was it a triumph of democracy when the National Socialists
>>> (the “Nationalsozialisten” = Nazi”), with the help of the German
>>> National People's Party, were victorious in elections in March 1933
>>> – starting a dark age of German history, tremendous damage on many
>>> others too.
>>> “Demo-cracy” hints at a concept that the will of the people
>>> governs. But how?
>>> The Cambodian People's Party has gained more and more seats in the
>>> National Assembly through every vote since 1993 – but the UN
>>> Special Rapporteur on the Situation of Human Rights in Cambodia has
>>> raised serious concerns because the electoral system – especially
>>> the National Election Committee – is controlled by government
>>> appointees, NOT representing the plurality of parties in the
>>> National Assembly. And thousands and thousands of people
>>> forcefully evicted from their traditional areas of residency have
>>> not only lost their homes, but they are no longer on residency
>>> related voter lists. Is the one-country-one-vote - on the UN level
>>> – more democratic, where 14 million Cambodia have the same
>>> vote-weight as 235+ million of Indonesia?
>>> The question is not only: What is democratic? – In the actual
>>> situations where we live it means also: How do we move towards the
>>> good goal that “the people's” benefits (not the majority of the
>>> people who voted in the Nazis in Germany, I add, without offering
>>> at the same time a rationale for my personal opinion here) are
>>> central? It is on this background that I well understand the short
>>> statement (which is open to misunderstandings) about Internet
>>> Governance: “Multistakeholderism *IS* the highest form of
>>> participatory democracy” If it is not – so what else, and how?
>>>
>>> Norbert Klein
>>> Phnom Penh/Cambodia
>>>
>>> =
>>>
>>> On 10/1/2012 7:59 PM, michael gurstein wrote:
>>> Wolfgang and all,
>>>
>>> I`ve just had an opportunity to observe at somewhat close hand a
>>> series of
>>> multi-stakeholder processes at work (in Agriculture planning) in
>>> several
>>> African countries... I was quite impressed for a number of reasons
>>> which I
>>> won`t go into here (I`m currently working on the report...
>>>
>>> However, one conclusion that I would draw is that while
>>> `multi-stakeholderism` is in at least some instances very
>>> effective as an
>>> inclusive, let`s say `participative` management tool it is very
>>> far from
>>> what I, or I think almost anyone would call ``democratic``
>>> (unless, as in
>>> some I think, quite perverse instances, one chooses to conflate
>>> the notions
>>> of management with democracy).
>>>
>>> The problem is that while multi-stakeholderism is inclusive of
>>> interests it
>>> is not necessarily accountable or representative of or for those
>>> interests.
>>> So for example, while a national or reagional farmers` union might
>>> be a very
>>> effective stakeholder representative of the interests of small
>>> holder farmers the precise process of accountability and
>>> representivity is in many
>>> instances a very open question subject to for example, the
>>> personailities of
>>> individuals, literacy, access to media and information, political
>>> interference etc. etc. The latter caveats do not preclude the former
>>> affirmations but they do strongly bracket the degree to which such
>>> processes
>>> could at all be called ``democratic`` at least within any
>>> definition of the
>>> term that I (or I would expect most of us) would understand.
>>>
>>> I think your broad objective of pursuing a framework for multi-
>>> stakeholder
>>> governance of the Internet is a worthwhile one and one I hope to
>>> contribute
>>> to in Baku, however, I think a useful outcome of that initiative
>>> would still
>>> leave open the question of overall democractic governance and
>>> accountability
>>> of the Internet.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Mike
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t



 
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121001/3b1497af/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From David_Allen_AB63 at post.harvard.edu  Mon Oct  1 19:01:53 2012
From: David_Allen_AB63 at post.harvard.edu (David Allen)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 19:01:53 -0400
Subject: [governance] Principles
In-Reply-To: <8CF6E38BA1CF2C1-2348-75191@webmail-d167.sysops.aol.com>
References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com> <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org> <CACAaNxhbB9GNvropAXac41J0vCeG7ofX9dRJrSLFKcjMpbhSbQ@mail.gmail.com> <CA+=oXBJVT+n9A9uKSeh5qu3ox+Qw99xSTci+s6bSXaYnWC1_gA@mail.gmail.com> <02350A3A-0235-4E7A-B1D0-5D6ED84AEE4C@safernet.org.br> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <506944F6.1090501@itforchange.net> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3C5@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <1025562875.8772.1349081476302.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f27> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3CE@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <04e201cd9fd4$93de6080$bb9b2180$@gmail.com>	<5069A3AF.7060500@gmx.net> <005c01cd9fe2$30ca9320$925fb960$@gmail.com> <4867EA09-80AD-40ED-9487-56E0ED02C9F3@post.harvard.edu>,<20121001222306.31a0349c@quill.bollow.ch> <E7F950D1E0C75744892C09CBFA0EB3522CF8435755@ARTEMIS.pers.ad.uni-graz.at> <6819FD91-3470-43FD-AA07-1A7D1268C8FA@post.harvard.edu> <8CF6E38BA1CF2C1-2348-75191@webmail-d167.sysops.aol.com
 >
Message-ID: <3B8ABC10-F3A9-4DDF-8567-B897D4CA936C@post.harvard.edu>

On Oct 1, 2012, at 6:10 PM, Koven Ronald wrote:

> Dear All --
>
> This discussion really can't be serious. It opens up an incredible  
> can of worms and seems to be posited on the notion that the Internet  
> has revoked the 2,500 previous years of political philosophy and  
> history. The nation state is going to be with us for the foreseeable  
> future (that is to say, our lifetimes) as the source and locus of  
> law and power. The Internet has not put an end to the nation state,  
> much as some people on this list would like to believe.

Amen.

> Try telling a traffic policeman that he can't arrest you because  
> you're not a citizen but a netizen,  and see where you end up.

- ! -

> Cheers, Rony Koven

Cheers, indeed!  David

>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Allen <David_Allen_AB63 at post.harvard.edu>
> To: governance <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
> Sent: Mon, Oct 1, 2012 11:41 pm
> Subject: Re: [governance] Principles
>
> hmmm ...
>
> > We have to think about how in the 'post-democratic' order (in the
> > sense of post-nation state-based democracy) order legitimacy can be
> > conveyed in the process of producing norms.
>
> and
> > ... in post-democratic trans-national constellations ...
>
> So, we _presume_ a post-democratic order - so that we can legitimize
> something besides 'democracy'?
>
> I don't think so.  Such logic is circular.
>
> And:
>
> > We need to focus not on democracy as a concept, but legitimacy as a
> > goal.
>
>
> As Norbert has pointed out, the Nazi's were legitimate - to use the
> case, which is cited now, all over the web, ad nauseam.  To go beyond
> that case, Stalin still has many, many adherents in Russia.  A man who
> saw to the slaughter of millions and millions.  I can come up with
> some heinous American examples, I am sure, with only a little effort.
> How about the Ku Klux Klan, who just for instance ruled the US state
> of Indiana (where I am a native) through at least the 1930s?  And of
> course saw to lynchings, and all manner of the ugliest and most
> despicable acts.  They had legitimacy.
>
> Legitimacy, as the target?  I don't think so.
>
> On the other hand:
>
> > human rights-based, accountable government (and good governance)
> > based on real, periodic, secret elections.
>
>
>
> > We need to ensure that the rules we aim for are materially
> > reflective of the needs of those to whom they are applied.
>
> These could be first elements in a potentially productive discussion,
> to address the serious problems of greater scale and so complexity.
>
> _If_ they do not presume answers, but instead are in a spirit of real
> investigation.
>
> For instance:
>
> > Just as good democracy does nationally, multistakeholder-baesd
> > decision-making have heightened input legitimacy and lead to
> > normative outcomes that are materially reflective of the
> > individual’s central needs ...
>
> While counter cases simply abound - and so invalidate the proposition
> - at the same time there are successful, working instances which could
> be useful in thinking about possibilities, going forward.
>
> Once again, only if in a spirit of investigation, oh so early on in
> the process, without presumption of conclusions (which is the bane of
> successful intellectual work ... which dooms any such effort before it
> is begun).
>
>
> Certainly though, any useful discussion will begin and end with the
> interplay of power relations.  As I memorably heard Kenneth Arrow say,
> oh so many years ago, (of course the Kenneth Arrow of last century's
> mathematical neoclassical microeconomics, perhaps the first Economics
> Nobel, certainly one of the first):  After he had spent an hour
> explaining the calculus of perfect competition, he turned and said
> (words to the effect):  Or maybe, this result is rendered immaterial
> by the ability of two men to overpower one person.
>
> Democracy is about the little person retaining power, even in the face
> of power accumulations, be that by economic forces such as corporate
> behemoths who disenfranchise the little guy, or by autocrats bent on
> taking from their populace for their own benefit.
>
>
> Notwithstanding, with the greatest respect for a thesis about to be
> published.
>
> David
>
> On Oct 1, 2012, at 4:48 PM, Kettemann, Matthias (matthias.kettemann at uni-graz.at
> ) wrote:
>
> > Dear all
> >
> > though I enjoy this discussion I think there are two underlying
> > problems. 1) Most notions of democracy used in this (and a lot of
> > other) debate(s) are state-centred. They are no longer tenable as a
> > legitimating basis for the production of rules in transnational
> > constellations. To ensure that they are legitimate, we need a new
> > concept of democrac. 2)  Discussants often mix  up two different
> > notions of democracy: the formal and the material one. Formally,
> > democracy demands that each vote be counted. But that's not enough.
> > Over the years there has been developed an international cumstomary
> > law basis of what democracy materially truly means - human rights-
> > based, accountable government (and good governance) based on real,
> > periodic, secret elections.
> >
> > What does this mean for our debate? We need to focus not on
> > democracy as a concept, but legitimacy as a goal.
> >
> > How does this work? First of all, we need to look at the material,
> > not the formal, notion of democracy. We need to ensure that the
> > rules we aim for are materially reflective of the needs of those to
> > whom they are applied.
> >
> > Second, 'one (wo)man, one vote' is a nice slogan, but it's just no
> > enough in our post-national constellation. We have to think about
> > how in the 'post-democratic' order (in the sense of post-nation
> > state-based democracy) order legitimacy can be conveyed in the
> > process of producing norms.
> >
> > Now, what does this mean for the Internet Governance debate? We need
> > to identify the best process of how to convey legitimacy. This
> > process, as has been pointed out, is multistakeholderism. But
> > multistakeholderism is not a form of participatory democracy; it is
> > a new form of conveying legitimacy in post-democratic trans-national
> > constellations.
> >
> > Just as good democracy does nationally, multistakeholder-baesd
> > decision-making have heightened input legitimacy and lead to
> > normative outcomes that are materially reflective of the
> > individual’s central needs (and thus have high output legitimacy).
> >
> > This is one of the points I'm making in the published version of my
> > PhD which Eleven International will publish in autumn.
> >
> > So less talk about democracy, and more talk about legitimacy.
> >
> > Kind regards
> >
> > Matthias
> >
> > --
> > Dr. Matthias C. Kettemann, LL.M. (Harvard)
> > Institute of International Law and International Relations
> > University of Graz
> > E | matthias.kettemann at uni-graz.at
> > Blog | internationallawandtheinternet.blogspot.com
> > ________________________________________
> > Von: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
>
> > ] im Auftrag von Norbert Bollow [nb at bollow.ch]
> > Gesendet: Montag, 01. Oktober 2012 22:23
> > An: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> > Betreff: Re: [governance] Principles
> >
> > Dear all
> >
> > I'm rather alarmed by Wolfgang's assertion that "Multistakeholderism
> > *IS* the highest form of participatory democracy".
> >
> > I would suggest that the main point of democracy is to safeguard the
> > public interest against being overpowered by powerful particular
> > interests.
> >
> > By contrast, multistakeholderism allows all stakeholders to
> > participate
> > without restriction. This implies that it cannot contain adequate
> > processes for making decisions on those questions which, due to
> > significant conflicts between different legitimate interest,  
> cannot be
> > resolved by rough consensus.
> >
> > It is true that democratic governance systems tend to have
> > imperfections, and I'm all in favor of working on fixing any and all
> > bugs that can be clearly identified and for which a known solution
> > strategy exists. One of these bugs is the current tendency of
> > governments (including in particular the judicial branch) to make
> > Internet related decisions without understanding what they're doing.
> > As you know I'm proposing to address this bug by means of a
> > multistakeholder process to create informative recommendation
> > documents to inform them better.
> > ( http://enhanced-cooperation.org/RFA/1 )
> >
> > But please let's avoid talking about multistakeholderism as if it in
> > itself somehow were an improved form of democracy. It isn't.
> >
> > Further, I agree with the points made by Michael Gurstein and David
> > Allen.
> >
> > Greetings,
> > Norbert
> >
> >
> > David Allen <David_Allen_AB63 at post.harvard.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> How many times has this list been around this track ...?
> >>
> >> Norbert Klein rightly brings to attention the difficulties to which
> >> democracy can be prey.
> >>
> >> And Winston Churchill helped us understand - in that very sober
> >> light
> >> - where we stand today:  "... democracy is the worst form of
> >> government except all the others that have been tried."
> >>
> >> By no stretch of the imagination does so-called multi- 
> stakeholderism
> >> hold out prospect to be a replacement.
> >>
> >> That does not of course remove the terrible blemishes democracy may
> >> create.  In fact, another Churchill quote holds that:  "The best
> >> argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the
> >> average voter."
> >>
> >> What is clear is that we just might benefit from some quality
> >> thinking and some hard, collaborative work, to try to understand  
> how
> >> representativeness may be instantiated, in a much-more-connected
> >> world, and especially in a world that now truly becomes global.
> >> Where agreement among very many, and many very different, actors is
> >> now often urgent.  But more and more difficult to cobble together,
> >> because of the scale and attendant complexity.  Yet, ultimate power
> >> in individual citizen hands is therefore all the more paramount, as
> >> the starting point.
> >>
> >> Rather than shibboleths, as seemingly easy - but really just facile
> >> - answers, we might apply ourselves to the serious work at hand.
> >>
> >> As Michael Gurstein has encouraged.
> >>
> >> David
> >>
> >> On Oct 1, 2012, at 10:36 AM, michael gurstein wrote:
> >>
> >>> Very good question Norbert and I well accept your cases and I
> >>> don't have any easy answers (but nor I think, does anyone else…
> >>>
> >>> Two things though, I know for sure that governance by self-
> >>> appointed, essentially unaccountable "stakeholders" is not
> >>> "democracy" at least by any definition I understand, and also that
> >>> we probably need to have some sort of collective rethinking/
> >>> redefinition of what we do mean by democracy in an age of
> >>> instantaneous and essentially free and massified communication and
> >>> information, the capacity for borderless (and defenseless) action
> >>> at a distance, mass literacy, and other manifestations of the
> >>> technologically transformed world that has emerged and would be
> >>> completely unrecognizable to the conceptualizers of representative
> >>> democracy in the 18th and 19th century.
> >>>
> >>> Issues of scale and unit (macro and micro the neighborhood, the
> >>> tribe, the province, the nation, the world);  issues of
> >>> accountability and transparency (increased opportunity for and
> >>> increased means to avoid), issues of efficacy (personal,
> >>> collective, associative) and a wide range of others need to be
> >>> accounted for and I think "we" as a species have only just started
> >>> that rethinking process…
> >>>
> >>> In the meantime abandoning something that we do know and
> >>> understand and have some experience with for leaps in the dark
> >>> seems to me to be a not very useful place to begin.
> >>>
> >>> M
> >>>
> >>> From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
> >>> [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org ] On Behalf Of
> >>> Norbert Klein Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 10:08 AM
> >>> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> >>> Subject: Re: [governance] Principles
> >>>
> >>> Interesting and important.
> >>> My question relates to this part: “the degree to which such
> >>> processes could at all be called ``democratic`` at least within
> >>> any definition of the term that I (or I would expect most of us)
> >>> would understand.”
> >>> There is an assumption what “most of us” would expect – but it is
> >>> not defined.
> >>> So I assume – maybe wrongly? - it is a kind of “one man (or woman)
> >>> one vote”? If not – so what? Please elaborate.
> >>> This surely was a good principle – it was used a lot arguing, for
> >>> example, against the South African Apartheid regime which rejected
> >>> it. Was it a triumph of democracy when the National Socialists
> >>> (the “Nationalsozialisten” = Nazi”), with the help of the German
> >>> National People's Party, were victorious in elections in March  
> 1933
> >>> – starting a dark age of German history, tremendous damage on many
> >>> others too.
> >>> “Demo-cracy” hints at a concept that the will of the people
> >>> governs. But how?
> >>> The Cambodian People's Party has gained more and more seats in the
> >>> National Assembly through every vote since 1993 – but the UN
> >>> Special Rapporteur on the Situation of Human Rights in Cambodia  
> has
> >>> raised serious concerns because the electoral system – especially
> >>> the National Election Committee – is controlled by government
> >>> appointees, NOT representing the plurality of parties in the
> >>> National Assembly. And thousands and thousands of people
> >>> forcefully evicted from their traditional areas of residency have
> >>> not only lost their homes, but they are no longer on residency
> >>> related voter lists. Is the one-country-one-vote - on the UN level
> >>> – more democratic, where 14 million Cambodia have the same
> >>> vote-weight as 235+ million of Indonesia?
> >>> The question is not only: What is democratic? – In the actual
> >>> situations where we live it means also: How do we move towards the
> >>> good goal that “the people's” benefits (not the majority of the
> >>> people who voted in the Nazis in Germany, I add, without offering
> >>> at the same time a rationale for my personal opinion here) are
> >>> central? It is on this background that I well understand the short
> >>> statement (which is open to misunderstandings) about Internet
> >>> Governance: “Multistakeholderism *IS* the highest form of
> >>> participatory democracy” If it is not – so what else, and how?
> >>>
> >>> Norbert Klein
> >>> Phnom Penh/Cambodia
> >>>
> >>> =
> >>>
> >>> On 10/1/2012 7:59 PM, michael gurstein wrote:
> >>> Wolfgang and all,
> >>>
> >>> I`ve just had an opportunity to observe at somewhat close hand a
> >>> series of
> >>> multi-stakeholder processes at work (in Agriculture planning) in
> >>> several
> >>> African countries... I was quite impressed for a number of reasons
> >>> which I
> >>> won`t go into here (I`m currently working on the report...
> >>>
> >>> However, one conclusion that I would draw is that while
> >>> `multi-stakeholderism` is in at least some instances very
> >>> effective as an
> >>> inclusive, let`s say `participative` management tool it is very
> >>> far from
> >>> what I, or I think almost anyone would call ``democratic``
> >>> (unless, as in
> >>> some I think, quite perverse instances, one chooses to conflate
> >>> the notions
> >>> of management with democracy).
> >>>
> >>> The problem is that while multi-stakeholderism is inclusive of
> >>> interests it
> >>> is not necessarily accountable or representative of or for those
> >>> interests.
> >>> So for example, while a national or reagional farmers` union might
> >>> be a very
> >>> effective stakeholder representative of the interests of small
> >>> holder farmers the precise process of accountability and
> >>> representivity is in many
> >>> instances a very open question subject to for example, the
> >>> personailities of
> >>> individuals, literacy, access to media and information, political
> >>> interference etc. etc. The latter caveats do not preclude the  
> former
> >>> affirmations but they do strongly bracket the degree to which such
> >>> processes
> >>> could at all be called ``democratic`` at least within any
> >>> definition of the
> >>> term that I (or I would expect most of us) would understand.
> >>>
> >>> I think your broad objective of pursuing a framework for multi-
> >>> stakeholder
> >>> governance of the Internet is a worthwhile one and one I hope to
> >>> contribute
> >>> to in Baku, however, I think a useful outcome of that initiative
> >>> would still
> >>> leave open the question of overall democractic governance and
> >>> accountability
> >>> of the Internet.
> >>>
> >>> Best,
> >>>
> >>> Mike
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> > To be removed from the list, visit:
> >     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >
> > For all other list information and functions, see:
> >     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >
> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121001/b083da6d/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From ian.peter at ianpeter.com  Mon Oct  1 19:57:43 2012
From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 09:57:43 +1000
Subject: [governance] Principles
In-Reply-To: <8CF6E38BA1CF2C1-2348-75191@webmail-d167.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <CC906B17.2952F%ian.peter@ianpeter.com>

Rony, you are probably right as regards our lifetimes.

But a quick look at human history shows us adopting increasingly larger
governance models as technological advances, firstly transport, and then
telecommunications, come in to play to make us more aware of people and
places we would have never conceived having contact with.

So, to start with a town like London, there were firstly separate boroughs,
then a town with a governance structure. It later sat within a nation called
England, which joined other nearby nations to form the United Kingdom. Then,
in turn, the UK became part of the European Union.

United States of America is another example, or Australian Federation. Of
course there are many more in all parts of the world.

Or consider the rise in the last century of geopolitical global alliances of
various sorts. Increasingly, we are looking at larger alliances and
governance structures.

In this context some form of global governance is I think inevitable, and I
believe the Internet will hasten its existence and lessen the resistance to
such concepts.

Maybe that¹s something my grandchildren will see. I hope for their sake it
is, as the current nation state structure is inadequate, almost feudal by
nature, and unhelpful in solving global problems, be they environmental or
internet governance or whatever. We will move on, I would love to live to
see that happen, but I think like you it is probably beyond our lifetimes.

Ian Peter



From: Koven Ronald <kovenronald at aol.com>
Reply-To: <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>, Koven Ronald
<kovenronald at aol.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 18:10:40 -0400 (EDT)
To: <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>, <David_Allen_AB63 at post.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: [governance] Principles

Dear All -- 

This discussion really can't be serious. It opens up an incredible can of
worms and seems to be posited on the notion that the Internet has revoked
the 2,500 previous years of political philosophy and history. The nation
state is going to be with us for the foreseeable future (that is to say, our
lifetimes) as the source and locus of law and power. The Internet has not
put an end to the nation state, much as some people on this list would like
to believe. Try telling a traffic policeman that he can't arrest you because
you're not a citizen but a netizen,  and see where you end up.

Cheers, Rony Koven


-----Original Message-----
From: David Allen <David_Allen_AB63 at post.harvard.edu>
To: governance <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
Sent: Mon, Oct 1, 2012 11:41 pm
Subject: Re: [governance] Principles

hmmm ...

> We have to think about how in the 'post-democratic' order (in the
> sense of post-nation state-based democracy) order legitimacy can be
> conveyed in the process of producing norms.

and
> ... in post-democratic trans-national constellations ...

So, we _presume_ a post-democratic order - so that we can legitimize
something besides 'democracy'?

I don't think so.  Such logic is circular.

And:

> We need to focus not on democracy as a concept, but legitimacy as a
> goal.


As Norbert has pointed out, the Nazi's were legitimate - to use the
case, which is cited now, all over the web, ad nauseam.  To go beyond
that case, Stalin still has many, many adherents in Russia.  A man who
saw to the slaughter of millions and millions.  I can come up with
some heinous American examples, I am sure, with only a little effort.
How about the Ku Klux Klan, who just for instance ruled the US state
of Indiana (where I am a native) through at least the 1930s?  And of
course saw to lynchings, and all manner of the ugliest and most
despicable acts.  They had legitimacy.

Legitimacy, as the target?  I don't think so.

On the other hand:

> human rights-based, accountable government (and good governance)
> based on real, periodic, secret elections.



> We need to ensure that the rules we aim for are materially
> reflective of the needs of those to whom they are applied.

These could be first elements in a potentially productive discussion,
to address the serious problems of greater scale and so complexity.

_If_ they do not presume answers, but instead are in a spirit of real
investigation.

For instance:

> Just as good democracy does nationally, multistakeholder-baesd
> decision-making have heightened input legitimacy and lead to
> normative outcomes that are materially reflective of the
> individual¹s central needs ...

While counter cases simply abound - and so invalidate the proposition
- at the same time there are successful, working instances which could
be useful in thinking about possibilities, going forward.

Once again, only if in a spirit of investigation, oh so early on in
the process, without presumption of conclusions (which is the bane of
successful intellectual work ... which dooms any such effort before it
is begun).


Certainly though, any useful discussion will begin and end with the
interplay of power relations.  As I memorably heard Kenneth Arrow say,
oh so many years ago, (of course the Kenneth Arrow of last century's
mathematical neoclassical microeconomics, perhaps the first Economics
Nobel, certainly one of the first):  After he had spent an hour
explaining the calculus of perfect competition, he turned and said
(words to the effect):  Or maybe, this result is rendered immaterial
by the ability of two men to overpower one person.

Democracy is about the little person retaining power, even in the face
of power accumulations, be that by economic forces such as corporate
behemoths who disenfranchise the little guy, or by autocrats bent on
taking from their populace for their own benefit.


Notwithstanding, with the greatest respect for a thesis about to be
published.

David

On Oct 1, 2012, at 4:48 PM, Kettemann, Matthias
(matthias.kettemann at uni-graz.at
) wrote:

> Dear all
>
> though I enjoy this discussion I think there are two underlying
> problems. 1) Most notions of democracy used in this (and a lot of
> other) debate(s) are state-centred. They are no longer tenable as a
> legitimating basis for the production of rules in transnational
> constellations. To ensure that they are legitimate, we need a new
> concept of democrac. 2)  Discussants often mix  up two different
> notions of democracy: the formal and the material one. Formally,
> democracy demands that each vote be counted. But that's not enough.
> Over the years there has been developed an international cumstomary
> law basis of what democracy materially truly means - human rights-
> based, accountable government (and good governance) based on real,
> periodic, secret elections.
>
> What does this mean for our debate? We need to focus not on
> democracy as a concept, but legitimacy as a goal.
>
> How does this work? First of all, we need to look at the material,
> not the formal, notion of democracy. We need to ensure that the
> rules we aim for are materially reflective of the needs of those to
> whom they are applied.
>
> Second, 'one (wo)man, one vote' is a nice slogan, but it's just no
> enough in our post-national constellation. We have to think about
> how in the 'post-democratic' order (in the sense of post-nation
> state-based democracy) order legitimacy can be conveyed in the
> process of producing norms.
>
> Now, what does this mean for the Internet Governance debate? We need
> to identify the best process of how to convey legitimacy. This
> process, as has been pointed out, is multistakeholderism. But
> multistakeholderism is not a form of participatory democracy; it is
> a new form of conveying legitimacy in post-democratic trans-national
> constellations.
>
> Just as good democracy does nationally, multistakeholder-baesd
> decision-making have heightened input legitimacy and lead to
> normative outcomes that are materially reflective of the
> individual¹s central needs (and thus have high output legitimacy).
>
> This is one of the points I'm making in the published version of my
> PhD which Eleven International will publish in autumn.
>
> So less talk about democracy, and more talk about legitimacy.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Matthias
>
> --
> Dr. Matthias C. Kettemann, LL.M. (Harvard)
> Institute of International Law and International Relations
> University of Graz
> E | matthias.kettemann at uni-graz.at
> Blog | internationallawandtheinternet.blogspot.com
> ________________________________________
> Von: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
[governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org

> ] im Auftrag von Norbert Bollow [nb at bollow.ch]
> Gesendet: Montag, 01. Oktober 2012 22:23
> An: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> Betreff: Re: [governance] Principles
>
> Dear all
>
> I'm rather alarmed by Wolfgang's assertion that "Multistakeholderism
> *IS* the highest form of participatory democracy".
>
> I would suggest that the main point of democracy is to safeguard the
> public interest against being overpowered by powerful particular
> interests.
>
> By contrast, multistakeholderism allows all stakeholders to
> participate
> without restriction. This implies that it cannot contain adequate
> processes for making decisions on those questions which, due to
> significant conflicts between different legitimate interest, cannot be
> resolved by rough consensus.
>
> It is true that democratic governance systems tend to have
> imperfections, and I'm all in favor of working on fixing any and all
> bugs that can be clearly identified and for which a known solution
> strategy exists. One of these bugs is the current tendency of
> governments (including in particular the judicial branch) to make
> Internet related decisions without understanding what they're doing.
> As you know I'm proposing to address this bug by means of a
> multistakeholder process to create informative recommendation
> documents to inform them better.
> ( http://enhanced-cooperation.org/RFA/1 )
>
> But please let's avoid talking about multistakeholderism as if it in
> itself somehow were an improved form of democracy. It isn't.
>
> Further, I agree with the points made by Michael Gurstein and David
> Allen.
>
> Greetings,
> Norbert
>
>
> David Allen <David_Allen_AB63 at post.harvard.edu> wrote:
>
>> How many times has this list been around this track ...?
>>
>> Norbert Klein rightly brings to attention the difficulties to which
>> democracy can be prey.
>>
>> And Winston Churchill helped us understand - in that very sober
>> light
>> - where we stand today:  "... democracy is the worst form of
>> government except all the others that have been tried."
>>
>> By no stretch of the imagination does so-called multi-stakeholderism
>> hold out prospect to be a replacement.
>>
>> That does not of course remove the terrible blemishes democracy may
>> create.  In fact, another Churchill quote holds that:  "The best
>> argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the
>> average voter."
>>
>> What is clear is that we just might benefit from some quality
>> thinking and some hard, collaborative work, to try to understand how
>> representativeness may be instantiated, in a much-more-connected
>> world, and especially in a world that now truly becomes global.
>> Where agreement among very many, and many very different, actors is
>> now often urgent.  But more and more difficult to cobble together,
>> because of the scale and attendant complexity.  Yet, ultimate power
>> in individual citizen hands is therefore all the more paramount, as
>> the starting point.
>>
>> Rather than shibboleths, as seemingly easy - but really just facile
>> - answers, we might apply ourselves to the serious work at hand.
>>
>> As Michael Gurstein has encouraged.
>>
>> David
>>
>> On Oct 1, 2012, at 10:36 AM, michael gurstein wrote:
>>
>>> Very good question Norbert and I well accept your cases and I
>>> don't have any easy answers (but nor I think, does anyone elseŠ
>>>
>>> Two things though, I know for sure that governance by self-
>>> appointed, essentially unaccountable "stakeholders" is not
>>> "democracy" at least by any definition I understand, and also that
>>> we probably need to have some sort of collective rethinking/
>>> redefinition of what we do mean by democracy in an age of
>>> instantaneous and essentially free and massified communication and
>>> information, the capacity for borderless (and defenseless) action
>>> at a distance, mass literacy, and other manifestations of the
>>> technologically transformed world that has emerged and would be
>>> completely unrecognizable to the conceptualizers of representative
>>> democracy in the 18th and 19th century.
>>>
>>> Issues of scale and unit (macro and micro the neighborhood, the
>>> tribe, the province, the nation, the world);  issues of
>>> accountability and transparency (increased opportunity for and
>>> increased means to avoid), issues of efficacy (personal,
>>> collective, associative) and a wide range of others need to be
>>> accounted for and I think "we" as a species have only just started
>>> that rethinking processŠ
>>>
>>> In the meantime abandoning something that we do know and
>>> understand and have some experience with for leaps in the dark
>>> seems to me to be a not very useful place to begin.
>>>
>>> M
>>>
>>> From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
<mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org?>  ] On Behalf Of
>>> Norbert Klein Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 10:08 AM
>>> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> Subject: Re: [governance] Principles
>>>
>>> Interesting and important.
>>> My question relates to this part: ³the degree to which such
>>> processes could at all be called ``democratic`` at least within
>>> any definition of the term that I (or I would expect most of us)
>>> would understand.²
>>> There is an assumption what ³most of us² would expect ­ but it is
>>> not defined.
>>> So I assume ­ maybe wrongly? - it is a kind of ³one man (or woman)
>>> one vote²? If not ­ so what? Please elaborate.
>>> This surely was a good principle ­ it was used a lot arguing, for
>>> example, against the South African Apartheid regime which rejected
>>> it. Was it a triumph of democracy when the National Socialists
>>> (the ³Nationalsozialisten² = Nazi²), with the help of the German
>>> National People's Party, were victorious in elections in March 1933
>>> ­ starting a dark age of German history, tremendous damage on many
>>> others too.
>>> ³Demo-cracy² hints at a concept that the will of the people
>>> governs. But how?
>>> The Cambodian People's Party has gained more and more seats in the
>>> National Assembly through every vote since 1993 ­ but the UN
>>> Special Rapporteur on the Situation of Human Rights in Cambodia has
>>> raised serious concerns because the electoral system ­ especially
>>> the National Election Committee ­ is controlled by government
>>> appointees, NOT representing the plurality of parties in the
>>> National Assembly. And thousands and thousands of people
>>> forcefully evicted from their traditional areas of residency have
>>> not only lost their homes, but they are no longer on residency
>>> related voter lists. Is the one-country-one-vote - on the UN level
>>> ­ more democratic, where 14 million Cambodia have the same
>>> vote-weight as 235+ million of Indonesia?
>>> The question is not only: What is democratic? ­ In the actual
>>> situations where we live it means also: How do we move towards the
>>> good goal that ³the people's² benefits (not the majority of the
>>> people who voted in the Nazis in Germany, I add, without offering
>>> at the same time a rationale for my personal opinion here) are
>>> central? It is on this background that I well understand the short
>>> statement (which is open to misunderstandings) about Internet
>>> Governance: ³Multistakeholderism *IS* the highest form of
>>> participatory democracy² If it is not ­ so what else, and how?
>>>
>>> Norbert Klein
>>> Phnom Penh/Cambodia
>>>
>>> =
>>>
>>> On 10/1/2012 7:59 PM, michael gurstein wrote:
>>> Wolfgang and all,
>>>
>>> I`ve just had an opportunity to observe at somewhat close hand a
>>> series of
>>> multi-stakeholder processes at work (in Agriculture planning) in
>>> several
>>> African countries... I was quite impressed for a number of reasons
>>> which I
>>> won`t go into here (I`m currently working on the report...
>>>
>>> However, one conclusion that I would draw is that while
>>> `multi-stakeholderism` is in at least some instances very
>>> effective as an
>>> inclusive, let`s say `participative` management tool it is very
>>> far from
>>> what I, or I think almost anyone would call ``democratic``
>>> (unless, as in
>>> some I think, quite perverse instances, one chooses to conflate
>>> the notions
>>> of management with democracy).
>>>
>>> The problem is that while multi-stakeholderism is inclusive of
>>> interests it
>>> is not necessarily accountable or representative of or for those
>>> interests.
>>> So for example, while a national or reagional farmers` union might
>>> be a very
>>> effective stakeholder representative of the interests of small
>>> holder farmers the precise process of accountability and
>>> representivity is in many
>>> instances a very open question subject to for example, the
>>> personailities of
>>> individuals, literacy, access to media and information, political
>>> interference etc. etc. The latter caveats do not preclude the former
>>> affirmations but they do strongly bracket the degree to which such
>>> processes
>>> could at all be called ``democratic`` at least within any
>>> definition of the
>>> term that I (or I would expect most of us) would understand.
>>>
>>> I think your broad objective of pursuing a framework for multi-
>>> stakeholder
>>> governance of the Internet is a worthwhile one and one I hope to
>>> contribute
>>> to in Baku, however, I think a useful outcome of that initiative
>>> would still
>>> leave open the question of overall democractic governance and
>>> accountability
>>> of the Internet.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Mike
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


 
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
 


____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121002/6294504e/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From gurstein at gmail.com  Mon Oct  1 21:20:20 2012
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 21:20:20 -0400
Subject: [governance] Private room available in 3 BR flat Nov. 2-9 in Baku
Message-ID: <035701cda03c$1a0094a0$4e01bde0$@gmail.com>

Via AirBnB I've rented a 3 BR flat in Baku for Nov. 2-9 at a very modest
rate.  I'm taking one BR, a colleague is taking a second and the person for
the 3rd has just taken alternative accommodation so his room is now
available.

The total rent for the week will be in the $150 USD range (I have no idea as
to the amenities available in the accommodation but the owner has assured me
that it has good Internet access and is about 30 minutes away from the
conference site by taxi and about 40 minutes by public transit.

Anyone interested should contact me asap.

Best,

Mike


-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From iza at anr.org  Mon Oct  1 22:38:15 2012
From: iza at anr.org (Izumi AIZU)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 11:38:15 +0900
Subject: [governance] WCIT - CS
In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD375@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
References: <506089AD.3020007@itforchange.net> <DC755FDE6D024C91AA8A0997F89F64BB@stateless>
 <CAFabd1LJcZ4k-=Zm-PQjBFLR9g6njZv7E_-doHXwj23c_V7Vzg@mail.gmail.com>
 <50617C44.6020104@itforchange.net> <CA+EjHYrvwfY9xq86ZZuH2S4nThRoyqXazJL-fe_Q_tARHJ28bw@mail.gmail.com>
 <506187A9.1060903@itforchange.net> <50618D5F.7000601@digsys.bg> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD375@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
Message-ID: <CA+YNoKh1Rf_2CFxpmrkCvkV+rt3fgo1dx9V9t-qWKJ+e_hfjGA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list,
First, thanks Wolfgang for sharing this.

I have to say that I am not following much on ITU/WCIT/ITR issues recently.

Now, ITU is calling for Civil Society's opinions on the ITR, and hold
a meeting on Oct. 9 at their HQ in Geneva.

What is your reaction?
Should we try to compile send our comments?
Are there anyone who could go to the meeting and express our views?
If we don't act now, we might be told later "we opened the door, but
you didn't enter", or just do not bother?

best,

izumi


2012/9/26 "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang"
<wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de>:
> http://www.itu.int/en/wcit-12/Documents/WCIT%20Briefing%20Session%20for%20Civil%20Society%20Stakeholders.pdf
>
> FYI
>
> w
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>



-- 
                     >> Izumi Aizu <<
Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
Japan
www.anr.org

-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From ceo at bnnrc.net  Tue Oct  2 00:02:52 2012
From: ceo at bnnrc.net (AHM Bazlur Rahman)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 10:02:52 +0600
Subject: [governance] WCIT - CS
In-Reply-To: <CA+YNoKh1Rf_2CFxpmrkCvkV+rt3fgo1dx9V9t-qWKJ+e_hfjGA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <506089AD.3020007@itforchange.net> <DC755FDE6D024C91AA8A0997F89F64BB@stateless>
 <CAFabd1LJcZ4k-=Zm-PQjBFLR9g6njZv7E_-doHXwj23c_V7Vzg@mail.gmail.com>
 <50617C44.6020104@itforchange.net> <CA+EjHYrvwfY9xq86ZZuH2S4nThRoyqXazJL-fe_Q_tARHJ28bw@mail.gmail.com>
 <506187A9.1060903@itforchange.net> <50618D5F.7000601@digsys.bg>
 <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD375@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <CA+YNoKh1Rf_2CFxpmrkCvkV+rt3fgo1dx9V9t-qWKJ+e_hfjGA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEc4Ok_egyFawwfkr_Ygn709G18M+5kHpaicic6vfL=YkAfBjg@mail.gmail.com>

*Dear Izumi,*
Thank you very much for your mail regarding WCIT.

We think we have to engage with WCIT process because WCIT is very important
for reshaping overall telecommunication in line with IGF.

We hope, you will join Geneva meeting and develop our position on WCIT.

With best regards,


Bazlu
_______________________
AHM. Bazlur Rahman-S21BR
Chief Executive Officer
Bangladesh NGOs Network for Radio and Communication (BNNRC)
[NGO in Special Consultative Status with the UN Economic and Social Council]
&
Head, Community Media Academy

House: 13/1, Road: 2, Shaymoli, Dhaka-1207  Bangladesh
Phone: +88-02-9130750, +88-02-9138501, Cell: +88 01711881647
Fax: 88-02-9138501-105,
E-mail: ceo at bnnrc.net, bnnr <bnnrc at bd.drik.net>cbd at gmail.com  www.bnnrc.net






On 2 October 2012 08:38, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:

> Dear list,
> First, thanks Wolfgang for sharing this.
>
> I have to say that I am not following much on ITU/WCIT/ITR issues recently.
>
> Now, ITU is calling for Civil Society's opinions on the ITR, and hold
> a meeting on Oct. 9 at their HQ in Geneva.
>
> What is your reaction?
> Should we try to compile send our comments?
> Are there anyone who could go to the meeting and express our views?
> If we don't act now, we might be told later "we opened the door, but
> you didn't enter", or just do not bother?
>
> best,
>
> izumi
>
>
> 2012/9/26 "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang"
> <wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de>:
> >
> http://www.itu.int/en/wcit-12/Documents/WCIT%20Briefing%20Session%20for%20Civil%20Society%20Stakeholders.pdf
> >
> > FYI
> >
> > w
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> > To be removed from the list, visit:
> >      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >
> > For all other list information and functions, see:
> >      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >      http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >
> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >
>
>
>
> --
>                      >> Izumi Aizu <<
> Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
> Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
> Japan
> www.anr.org
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121002/c2f562f8/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From sana.pryhod at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 01:16:59 2012
From: sana.pryhod at gmail.com (Oksana Prykhodko)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 08:16:59 +0300
Subject: [governance] WCIT - CS
In-Reply-To: <CAEc4Ok_egyFawwfkr_Ygn709G18M+5kHpaicic6vfL=YkAfBjg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <506089AD.3020007@itforchange.net>
	<DC755FDE6D024C91AA8A0997F89F64BB@stateless>
	<CAFabd1LJcZ4k-=Zm-PQjBFLR9g6njZv7E_-doHXwj23c_V7Vzg@mail.gmail.com>
	<50617C44.6020104@itforchange.net>
	<CA+EjHYrvwfY9xq86ZZuH2S4nThRoyqXazJL-fe_Q_tARHJ28bw@mail.gmail.com>
	<506187A9.1060903@itforchange.net>
	<50618D5F.7000601@digsys.bg>
	<2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD375@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
	<CA+YNoKh1Rf_2CFxpmrkCvkV+rt3fgo1dx9V9t-qWKJ+e_hfjGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEc4Ok_egyFawwfkr_Ygn709G18M+5kHpaicic6vfL=YkAfBjg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+C8XCKqT2Pvz1tgYSE9neF6RBFu_Rv0Hr5Em987Kvy=_Mo5Og@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,

Thank you very much for sharing this information.

This Saturday (28 September) we had our Third IGF-UA. I can't say that
it was very successful, but at least one extremely important
achievement we have:

Thanks to participation of Olivier Crepin-Leblond, Sebastien Bacholet,
Michail Yakushev, Leonid Todorov and others, we for the first time
openly discussed Ukrainian official position in Dubai.

So, I will be happy to join your statement, to translate it into
Russian/Ukrainian and to share within post-Soviet community.

Best regards,
Oksana

2012/10/2 AHM Bazlur Rahman <ceo at bnnrc.net>:
> Dear Izumi,
> Thank you very much for your mail regarding WCIT.
>
> We think we have to engage with WCIT process because WCIT is very important
> for reshaping overall telecommunication in line with IGF.
>
> We hope, you will join Geneva meeting and develop our position on WCIT.
>
> With best regards,
>
>
> Bazlu
> _______________________
> AHM. Bazlur Rahman-S21BR
> Chief Executive Officer
> Bangladesh NGOs Network for Radio and Communication (BNNRC)
> [NGO in Special Consultative Status with the UN Economic and Social Council]
> &
> Head, Community Media Academy
>
> House: 13/1, Road: 2, Shaymoli, Dhaka-1207  Bangladesh
> Phone: +88-02-9130750, +88-02-9138501, Cell: +88 01711881647
> Fax: 88-02-9138501-105,
> E-mail: ceo at bnnrc.net, bnnrcbd at gmail.com  www.bnnrc.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2 October 2012 08:38, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:
>>
>> Dear list,
>> First, thanks Wolfgang for sharing this.
>>
>> I have to say that I am not following much on ITU/WCIT/ITR issues
>> recently.
>>
>> Now, ITU is calling for Civil Society's opinions on the ITR, and hold
>> a meeting on Oct. 9 at their HQ in Geneva.
>>
>> What is your reaction?
>> Should we try to compile send our comments?
>> Are there anyone who could go to the meeting and express our views?
>> If we don't act now, we might be told later "we opened the door, but
>> you didn't enter", or just do not bother?
>>
>> best,
>>
>> izumi
>>
>>
>> 2012/9/26 "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang"
>> <wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de>:
>> >
>> > http://www.itu.int/en/wcit-12/Documents/WCIT%20Briefing%20Session%20for%20Civil%20Society%20Stakeholders.pdf
>> >
>> > FYI
>> >
>> > w
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ____________________________________________________________
>> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>> >      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> > To be removed from the list, visit:
>> >      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> >
>> > For all other list information and functions, see:
>> >      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>> >      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> >
>> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>                      >> Izumi Aizu <<
>> Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
>> Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
>> Japan
>> www.anr.org
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>

-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From william.drake at uzh.ch  Tue Oct  2 02:19:51 2012
From: william.drake at uzh.ch (William Drake)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 08:19:51 +0200
Subject: [governance] WCIT - CS
In-Reply-To: <CA+YNoKh1Rf_2CFxpmrkCvkV+rt3fgo1dx9V9t-qWKJ+e_hfjGA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <506089AD.3020007@itforchange.net> <DC755FDE6D024C91AA8A0997F89F64BB@stateless> <CAFabd1LJcZ4k-=Zm-PQjBFLR9g6njZv7E_-doHXwj23c_V7Vzg@mail.gmail.com> <50617C44.6020104@itforchange.net> <CA+EjHYrvwfY9xq86ZZuH2S4nThRoyqXazJL-fe_Q_tARHJ28bw@mail.gmail.com> <506187A9.1060903@itforchange.net> <50618D5F.7000601@digsys.bg> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD375@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <CA+YNoKh1Rf_2CFxpmrkCvkV+rt3fgo1dx9V9t-qWKJ+e_hfjGA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D8C23E08-8D3B-4902-828D-394D8FBDA69B@uzh.ch>

Hi

I will be there.  If a new input of some sort is developed I'm happy to pass it along.  If not, I can either channel the main thrust of caucus discussions re: an ITU role since we started discussing this in Feb. 03, or I can speak with a different hat.  Either way, one of the goals of the Best Bits meeting Jeremy is organizing in Baku is to produce a statement for input, so that's another opportunity.

Best

Bill

On Oct 2, 2012, at 4:38, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:

> Dear list,
> First, thanks Wolfgang for sharing this.
> 
> I have to say that I am not following much on ITU/WCIT/ITR issues recently.
> 
> Now, ITU is calling for Civil Society's opinions on the ITR, and hold
> a meeting on Oct. 9 at their HQ in Geneva.
> 
> What is your reaction?
> Should we try to compile send our comments?
> Are there anyone who could go to the meeting and express our views?
> If we don't act now, we might be told later "we opened the door, but
> you didn't enter", or just do not bother?
> 
> best,
> 
> izumi
> 
> 
> 2012/9/26 "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang"
> <wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de>:
>> http://www.itu.int/en/wcit-12/Documents/WCIT%20Briefing%20Session%20for%20Civil%20Society%20Stakeholders.pdf
>> 
>> FYI
>> 
>> w
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> 
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> 
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
>>> Izumi Aizu <<
> Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
> Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
> Japan
> www.anr.org
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From karl at cavebear.com  Tue Oct  2 02:49:49 2012
From: karl at cavebear.com (Karl Auerbach)
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2012 23:49:49 -0700
Subject: [governance] Principles
In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3C5@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com> <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org> <CACAaNxhbB9GNvropAXac41J0vCeG7ofX9dRJrSLFKcjMpbhSbQ@mail.gmail.com> <CA+=oXBJVT+n9A9uKSeh5qu3ox+Qw99xSTci+s6bSXaYnWC1_gA@mail.gmail.com> <02350A3A-0235-4E7A-B1D0-5D6ED84AEE4C@safernet.org.br> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <506944F6.1090501@itforchange.net> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3C5@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
Message-ID: <506A8E8D.8070608@cavebear.com>

On 10/01/2012 12:52 AM, "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" wrote:

> Multistakeholderism *IS* the highest form of participatory democracy

I rather take a rather different position, which is that stakeholderism
is oligarchy and not democratic at all.

I remind people of my paper of several years ago - "Stakeholderism - The
Wrong Road For Internet Governance" - at
http://www.cavebear.com/archive/rw/igf-democracy-in-internet-governance.pdf

Stakeholderism assigns one, and often more, voices to those who have
"stake", typically measured in financial terms.

That means that some speakers, those with "stake" get to speak louder
than others.  Indeed often those with "stake" exclude those without from
the fora and processes of decision-making.

Do we really want a system of internet governance based on the long
discarded notion that there is a hierarchy among people of "stake"; that
there is a kind of royal rank and nobility, that makes some people more
worthy than others to govern the internet?

The rule should be one person, one vote, no more, no less.

Each individual human should be the atomic unit of internet governance,
not how much money that person has, how he/she has invested that money,
which corporations he/she is affiliated with, or whether he/she owns
trademarks or intellectual property.

I have no problem with exercising democracy via representatives.  But I
do have a problem with systems that give different or additional tickets
of admission to some and smaller tickets, or no tickets at all, to others.

The list of bodies of governance that have sold their souls to those who
have "stake" and have thus become captives of those who they have so
designated is a list that runs from A to Z.  It is not a list of
successes; it is a list of failures.

Anyone who has a "stake" is free to express his/her views - as a person
- and cast his/her votes - as a person - along with everyone else, with
equality.  But to give that person an additional or louder voice - no.

	--karl--


-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From karl at cavebear.com  Tue Oct  2 02:51:59 2012
From: karl at cavebear.com (Karl Auerbach)
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2012 23:51:59 -0700
Subject: [governance] Principles
In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3C5@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com> <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org> <CACAaNxhbB9GNvropAXac41J0vCeG7ofX9dRJrSLFKcjMpbhSbQ@mail.gmail.com> <CA+=oXBJVT+n9A9uKSeh5qu3ox+Qw99xSTci+s6bSXaYnWC1_gA@mail.gmail.com> <02350A3A-0235-4E7A-B1D0-5D6ED84AEE4C@safernet.org.br> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <506944F6.1090501@itforchange.net> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3C5@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
Message-ID: <506A8F0F.8090701@cavebear.com>


I thought that I'd add that I find the following to be an extremely
useful starting point when talking about internet governance:

First Law of the Internet
http://www.cavebear.com/cbblog-archives/000059.html

+ Every person shall be free to use the Internet in any way
  that is privately beneficial without being publicly
  detrimental.

   - The burden of demonstrating public detriment shall
     be on those who wish to prevent the private use.

       - Such a demonstration shall require clear and
         convincing evidence of public detriment.

   - The public detriment must be of such degree and extent
     as to justify the suppression of the private activity.

   --karl--


-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From nb at bollow.ch  Tue Oct  2 03:45:55 2012
From: nb at bollow.ch (Norbert Bollow)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 09:45:55 +0200
Subject: [governance] Principles
In-Reply-To: <E7F950D1E0C75744892C09CBFA0EB3522CF8435755@ARTEMIS.pers.ad.uni-graz.at>
References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com>
	<50656139.4070604@cis-india.org>
	<CACAaNxhbB9GNvropAXac41J0vCeG7ofX9dRJrSLFKcjMpbhSbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+=oXBJVT+n9A9uKSeh5qu3ox+Qw99xSTci+s6bSXaYnWC1_gA@mail.gmail.com>
	<02350A3A-0235-4E7A-B1D0-5D6ED84AEE4C@safernet.org.br>
	<855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
	<506944F6.1090501@itforchange.net>
	<2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3C5@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
	<1025562875.8772.1349081476302.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f27>
	<2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3CE@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
	<04e201cd9fd4$93de6080$bb9b2180$@gmail.com>
	<5069A3AF.7060500@gmx.net>
	<005c01cd9fe2$30ca9320$925fb960$@gmail.com>
	<4867EA09-80AD-40ED-9487-56E0ED02C9F3@post.harvard.edu>
	<20121001222306.31a0349c@quill.bollow.ch>
	<E7F950D1E0C75744892C09CBFA0EB3522CF8435755@ARTEMIS.pers.ad.uni-graz.at>
Message-ID: <20121002094555.346d0884@quill.bollow.ch>

Matthias Kettemann <matthias.kettemann at uni-graz.at>:

> Now, what does this mean for the Internet Governance debate? We need
> to identify the best process of how to convey legitimacy. This
> process, as has been pointed out, is multistakeholderism. But
> multistakeholderism is not a form of participatory democracy; it is a
> new form of conveying legitimacy in post-democratic trans-national
> constellations. 

Hi Matthias

Could you explain the precise meaning of "legitimacy" in this context?

Greetings,
Norbert

-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From riaz.tayob at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 04:08:11 2012
From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 11:08:11 +0300
Subject: [governance] Principles
In-Reply-To: <5069A3AF.7060500@gmx.net>
References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com> <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org> <CACAaNxhbB9GNvropAXac41J0vCeG7ofX9dRJrSLFKcjMpbhSbQ@mail.gmail.com> <CA+=oXBJVT+n9A9uKSeh5qu3ox+Qw99xSTci+s6bSXaYnWC1_gA@mail.gmail.com> <02350A3A-0235-4E7A-B1D0-5D6ED84AEE4C@safernet.org.br> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <506944F6.1090501@itforchange.net> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3C5@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <1025562875.8772.1349081476302.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f27> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3CE@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <04e201cd9fd4$93de6080$bb9b2180$@gmail.com> <5069A3AF.7060500@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <506AA0EB.5080003@gmail.com>

I am always open to optimism of the will and pessimism of the intellect 
(ok I try...often unsuccesfully)...

The contextual issues in MSG at IGF are missing from the commodious term 
democracy (of which there are many)... let me put it blunty from a CIR 
perspective... we have a non-binding IGF with MSG but are effectively 
precluded from discussing CIR in large order... one would have expected 
a non-binding inclusive process to be just the opposite... perhaps more 
work is needed with some guidance from critics otherwise we just a half 
glass full while others drink up the water while we are not looking...


On 2012/10/01 05:07 PM, Norbert Klein wrote:
>
> Interesting and important.
>
> My question relates to this part: “the degree to which such processes 
> could at all be called ``democratic`` at least within any definition 
> of the term that I (or I would expect most of us) would understand.”
>
> There is an assumption what “most of us” would expect – but it is not 
> defined.
>
> So I assume – maybe wrongly? - it is a kind of “one man (or woman) one 
> vote”? If not – so what? Please elaborate.
>
> This surely was a good principle – it was used a lot arguing, for 
> example, against the South African Apartheid regime which rejected it.
>
> Was it a triumph of democracy when the National 
> Socialists*(*the*“Na*tionalso*zi*alisten*” = Nazi”),*with the help of 
> the German National People's Party 
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_National_People%27s_Party>, were 
> victorious in elections inMarch 1933 –starting a dark age of German 
> history, tremendous damage on many others too.
>
> “Demo-cracy” hints at a concept that the will of the people governs. 
> But how?
>
> The Cambodian People's Party has gained more and more seats in the 
> National Assembly through every vote since 1993 – but the UN Special 
> Rapporteur on the Situation of Human Rights in Cambodia has raised 
> serious concerns becausethe electoral system – especially the National 
> Election Committee – is controlled by government appointees, NOT 
> representing the plurality of parties in the National Assembly. And 
> thousands and thousands of people forcefully evicted from their 
> traditional areas of residency have not only lost their homes, but 
> they are no longer on residency related voter lists.
>
> Is the one-country-one-vote - on the UN level – more democratic, where 
> 14 million Cambodia havethe same vote-weight as 235+ million of 
> Indonesia?
>
> The question is not only: What is democratic? – In the actual 
> situations where we live it meansalso: How do we move towards the good 
> goal that “the people's” benefits (not the majority of the people who 
> voted in the Nazis in Germany, I add, without offering at the same 
> time a rationale for my personal opinion here) are central?
>
> It is on this background that I well understand theshort statement 
> (which is open to misunderstandings) about Internet Governance:
>
> “Multistakeholderism**IS**  the highest form of participatory democracy”
>
> If it is not – so what else, and how?
>
>
> Norbert Klein
> Phnom Penh/Cambodia
>
> =
>
> On 10/1/2012 7:59 PM, michael gurstein wrote:
>> Wolfgang and all,
>>
>> I`ve just had an opportunity to observe at somewhat close hand a series of
>> multi-stakeholder processes at work (in Agriculture planning) in several
>> African countries... I was quite impressed for a number of reasons which I
>> won`t go into here (I`m currently working on the report...
>>
>> However, one conclusion that I would draw is that while
>> `multi-stakeholderism` is in at least some instances very effective as an
>> inclusive, let`s say `participative` management tool it is very far from
>> what I, or I think almost anyone would call ``democratic`` (unless, as in
>> some I think, quite perverse instances, one chooses to conflate the notions
>> of management with democracy).
>>
>> The problem is that while multi-stakeholderism is inclusive of interests it
>> is not necessarily accountable or representative of or for those interests.
>> So for example, while a national or reagional farmers` union might be a very
>> effective stakeholder representative of the interests of small holder
>> farmers the precise process of accountability and representivity is in many
>> instances a very open question subject to for example, the personailities of
>> individuals, literacy, access to media and information, political
>> interference etc. etc. The latter caveats do not preclude the former
>> affirmations but they do strongly bracket the degree to which such processes
>> could at all be called ``democratic`` at least within any definition of the
>> term that I (or I would expect most of us) would understand.
>>
>> I think your broad objective of pursuing a framework for multi-stakeholder
>> governance of the Internet is a worthwhile one and one I hope to contribute
>> to in Baku, however, I think a useful outcome of that initiative would still
>> leave open the question of overall democractic governance and accountability
>> of the Internet.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Mike
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121002/b3339cb0/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From kovenronald at aol.com  Tue Oct  2 04:25:29 2012
From: kovenronald at aol.com (Koven Ronald)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 04:25:29 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [governance] Principles
In-Reply-To: <20121002094555.346d0884@quill.bollow.ch>
References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com>
	<50656139.4070604@cis-india.org>
	<CACAaNxhbB9GNvropAXac41J0vCeG7ofX9dRJrSLFKcjMpbhSbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+=oXBJVT+n9A9uKSeh5qu3ox+Qw99xSTci+s6bSXaYnWC1_gA@mail.gmail.com>
	<02350A3A-0235-4E7A-B1D0-5D6ED84AEE4C@safernet.org.br>
	<855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
	<506944F6.1090501@itforchange.net>
	<2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3C5@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
	<1025562875.8772.1349081476302.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f27>
	<2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3CE@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
	<04e201cd9fd4$93de6080$bb9b2180$@gmail.com>
	<5069A3AF.7060500@gmx.net>
	<005c01cd9fe2$30ca9320$925fb960$@gmail.com>
	<4867EA09-80AD-40ED-9487-56E0ED02C9F3@post.harvard.edu>
	<20121001222306.31a0349c@quill.bollow.ch>
	<E7F950D1E0C75744892C09CBFA0EB3522CF8435755@ARTEMIS.pers.ad.uni-graz.at> <20121002094555.346d0884@quill.bollow.ch>
Message-ID: <8CF6E8E9DA19F07-1FF0-6910A@webmail-d035.sysops.aol.com>

French political discourse makes a very clear distinction between "legitimacy" and "legality."


"Legality" is seen as merely formal. Something that is legal may not be legitimate.


"Legitimacy" is seen as having moral authority. But something that is legitimate may not be legal.


Thus, right wingers opposed to the Popular Front government in the 1930s claimed that it represented the "apparent country" as opposed to the "real country," in other words that the government was legal but not legitimate.


Rony Koven



-----Original Message-----
From: Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch>
To: governance <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
Sent: Tue, Oct 2, 2012 9:46 am
Subject: Re: [governance] Principles


Matthias Kettemann <matthias.kettemann at uni-graz.at>:

> Now, what does this mean for the Internet Governance debate? We need
> to identify the best process of how to convey legitimacy. This
> process, as has been pointed out, is multistakeholderism. But
> multistakeholderism is not a form of participatory democracy; it is a
> new form of conveying legitimacy in post-democratic trans-national
> constellations. 

Hi Matthias

Could you explain the precise meaning of "legitimacy" in this context?

Greetings,
Norbert


 
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121002/cbd09086/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From jlfullsack at orange.fr  Tue Oct  2 04:29:43 2012
From: jlfullsack at orange.fr (Jean-Louis FULLSACK)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 10:29:43 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [governance] Principles
In-Reply-To: <506A8E8D.8070608@cavebear.com>
References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com>
 <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org>
 <CACAaNxhbB9GNvropAXac41J0vCeG7ofX9dRJrSLFKcjMpbhSbQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+=oXBJVT+n9A9uKSeh5qu3ox+Qw99xSTci+s6bSXaYnWC1_gA@mail.gmail.com>
 <02350A3A-0235-4E7A-B1D0-5D6ED84AEE4C@safernet.org.br>
 <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
 <506944F6.1090501@itforchange.net>
 <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3C5@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
 <506A8E8D.8070608@cavebear.com>
Message-ID: <1086672262.45006.1349166583269.JavaMail.www@wwinf1d25>



Well said, Karl ! Your opinion after Ronny's reminder on the common sense, set my mind at rest as regards CS vision on Internet and realities Best regards Jean-Louis Fulsack





> Message du 02/10/12 08:50
> De : "Karl Auerbach" 
> A : governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> Copie à : 
> Objet : Re: [governance] Principles
> 
> On 10/01/2012 12:52 AM, "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" wrote:
> 
> > Multistakeholderism *IS* the highest form of participatory democracy
> 
> I rather take a rather different position, which is that stakeholderism
> is oligarchy and not democratic at all.
> 
> I remind people of my paper of several years ago - "Stakeholderism - The
> Wrong Road For Internet Governance" - at
> http://www.cavebear.com/archive/rw/igf-democracy-in-internet-governance.pdf
> 
> Stakeholderism assigns one, and often more, voices to those who have
> "stake", typically measured in financial terms.
> 
> That means that some speakers, those with "stake" get to speak louder
> than others. Indeed often those with "stake" exclude those without from
> the fora and processes of decision-making.
> 
> Do we really want a system of internet governance based on the long
> discarded notion that there is a hierarchy among people of "stake"; that
> there is a kind of royal rank and nobility, that makes some people more
> worthy than others to govern the internet?
> 
> The rule should be one person, one vote, no more, no less.
> 
> Each individual human should be the atomic unit of internet governance,
> not how much money that person has, how he/she has invested that money,
> which corporations he/she is affiliated with, or whether he/she owns
> trademarks or intellectual property.
> 
> I have no problem with exercising democracy via representatives. But I
> do have a problem with systems that give different or additional tickets
> of admission to some and smaller tickets, or no tickets at all, to others.
> 
> The list of bodies of governance that have sold their souls to those who
> have "stake" and have thus become captives of those who they have so
> designated is a list that runs from A to Z. It is not a list of
> successes; it is a list of failures.
> 
> Anyone who has a "stake" is free to express his/her views - as a person
> - and cast his/her votes - as a person - along with everyone else, with
> equality. But to give that person an additional or louder voice - no.
> 
> --karl--
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121002/405c2fab/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From rafik.dammak at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 04:42:39 2012
From: rafik.dammak at gmail.com (Rafik Dammak)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 10:42:39 +0200
Subject: [governance] Youth Tech Camp in Pakistan
In-Reply-To: <CAJwbTiD9GVuB+iWkWhVXAZzFmnAuhoDZOV+83SLpsq6LFEBfYQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJwbTiCHUqOMJFgVR11M5m3jw1sysv6HmKu-35RO=zOc8Mz=bQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<E3B43787-1C5C-4EB5-B128-AB5DD91B0484@gmail.com>
	<CAJwbTiD9GVuB+iWkWhVXAZzFmnAuhoDZOV+83SLpsq6LFEBfYQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAH5sThk0brEKze4eH0Uwp_mJQH=A-AX4jALEAE_c9eSTbjwFWQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Sala,

Since IGF Hyderabad , there is a youth workshop organised by youth
coalition on IG in addition to to other workshops organised by YCIG members
(the first workshop was organised by diplo foundation ), and YCIG made
statements during main sessions in Vilnius and Nairobi and can be found in
ycig.org but no youth main session. there will be also a coalition meeting
in Baku.

Best,

Rafik

Le dimanche 30 septembre 2012, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro a écrit :

> Hi Nighat,
>
> That's excellent and it will be good to have this information shared
> amongst those within the Arab IGF. I am not sure if there is a Youth
> Session in Baku and if there is it will be wonderful to hear from you and
> others who were involved in similar camps.
>
> Warm Regards,
> Sala
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 7:47 AM, Nighat Dad <nigidaad at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Sala,
>
> Thanks for posting this. I was one of the lead trainer in the camp.
>
> Best,
> Nighat Dad
> Skype: Nighat.dad
> Twitter: @nighatdad
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 30-Sep-2012, at 12:40 AM, "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" <
> salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear All,
>
> It was really great to read about the Youth Tech Camp in Pakistan, see
> below:
>
> You are subscribed to South and Central Asia for U.S. Department of State.
> This information has recently been updated, and is now available.
> South and Central Asia: U.S. Department of State Hosts Youth TechCamp in
> Pakistan: Empowering Youth for Social Change<http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2012/09/198475.htm>
> 09/29/2012 10:39 AM EDT
>
> U.S. Department of State Hosts Youth TechCamp in Pakistan: Empowering
> Youth for Social Change
>
> Media Note
> Office of the Spokesperson
> Washington, DC
> September 29, 2012
>
> ------------------------------
>
> The U.S. Department of State’s Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs
> (ECA), in collaboration with U.S. Embassy Islamabad and iEARN<http://www.iearn.org/>,
> hosted Youth TechCamp in Islamabad, Pakistan, September 27-29, 2012. A
> signature series hosted by the State Department to increase digital
> literacy, Youth TechCamp Pakistan engaged 40 alumni of the Kennedy-Lugar
> Youth Exchange and Study (YES) Program <http://yesprograms.org/>.
>
> Youth TechCamp Pakistan encourages young people to engage and contribute
> to the digital networks and technologies of today’s interconnected world.
>
> Youth TechCamp Pakistan provided three full days of training with top
> local technology experts specializing in civic journalism and social
> activism. Youth TechCamp Pakistan enabled these future leaders to learn how
> they can leverage connection technologies to make a positive impact in
> their communities and around the world.
>
> Join the conversation on Youth TechCamp Pakistan on Facebook<http://www.facebook.com/YouthTechCamp> and
> Twitter using the hashtag #TechCamp. See photos from Youth TechCamp
> Pakistan here<http://www.flickr.com/photos/usembpak/sets/72157631634116981/>
> .
>
> For more information and media inquiries about the Youth TechCamp, contact
> Suzanne Philion at PhilionSK at state.gov
>
> --
> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
> P.O. Box 17862
> Suva
> Fiji
>
> Twitter: @SalanietaT
> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
>
>
>
>
>  ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For
>
>

-- 
Rafik Dammak
@rafik
"fight for the users"
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121002/f09c266d/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From matthias.kettemann at uni-graz.at  Tue Oct  2 05:00:11 2012
From: matthias.kettemann at uni-graz.at (Kettemann, Matthias (matthias.kettemann@uni-graz.at))
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 11:00:11 +0200
Subject: AW: [governance] Principles
In-Reply-To: <506AA0EB.5080003@gmail.com>
References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com>
 <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org>
 <CACAaNxhbB9GNvropAXac41J0vCeG7ofX9dRJrSLFKcjMpbhSbQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+=oXBJVT+n9A9uKSeh5qu3ox+Qw99xSTci+s6bSXaYnWC1_gA@mail.gmail.com>
 <02350A3A-0235-4E7A-B1D0-5D6ED84AEE4C@safernet.org.br>
 <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
 <506944F6.1090501@itforchange.net>
 <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3C5@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
 <1025562875.8772.1349081476302.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f27>
 <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3CE@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
 <04e201cd9fd4$93de6080$bb9b2180$@gmail.com>
 <5069A3AF.7060500@gmx.net>,<506AA0EB.5080003@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E7F950D1E0C75744892C09CBFA0EB3522CF843575A@ARTEMIS.pers.ad.uni-graz.at>

Dear all, 


@ Norbert
>> Now, what does this mean for the Internet Governance debate? We need
>> to identify the best process of how to convey legitimacy. This
>> process, as has been pointed out, is multistakeholderism. But
>> multistakeholderism is not a form of participatory democracy; it is a
>> new form of conveying legitimacy in post-democratic trans-national
>> constellations. 
>
> Could you explain the precise meaning of "legitimacy" in this context?
>

I suggest that an International Internet norm is legitimate if it meets a formal and a material legitimacy requirement:

-        formally, it needs to be symbolically validated through its emergence in a multi-stakeholder process (the input and throughput dimension of legitimacy),

-        materially, it needs to be determinate enough for its purpose (thus allowing for non-binding instruments), cohere with the Internet’s core principles and be consonant with the values of Internet Governance, and adhere systematically to the broader normative system of Internet Governance (the output dimension of legitimacy).
Norms and norm-making procedures that meet the formal and material conditions of legitimacy that I have outlined above can overcome a problem Pierre Mounier identifies, namely that “no global internet governance body will be able to accumulate enough legitimacy over such a heterogeneous world; nor can traditional national states pretend to rule over it." Internet Governance norms are legitimate not because there is one central norm-making body – or because states exercise control – but because all stakeholders contribute to the process. They symbolically validate it and thus ensure that the norms meet the standards necessary for effective regulation, including determinacy, inner coherence, consonance with and adherence to the stakeholder-encompassing fundamental values

@ Karl
> I rather take a rather different position, which is that stakeholderism is oligarchy and not democratic at all.
Multistakholerdism means - in abstract - that all those who are touched by the normative outcomes of a normative process should have a say in the process. MS can be oligarchic if only some are heard (because of their position, wealth etc.). But it can be desigend in a way that avoids this dilemma.

@ Rony
> This discussion really can't be serious. It opens up an incredible can of worms and seems to be posited on the notion that the Internet has revoked the 2,500 previous years of political philosophy and history. The nation state is going to be with us for the foreseeable future (that is to say, our lifetimes) as the source and locus of law and power.
Yes, the nation state will continue to be important, but the way international legal instruments have been created of lately evidences a clear trend towards the inclusion of non-state actors, other stakeholders. Just take the Rome Statute of the ICC as example where NGOs had an important role to play in the treaty-making process. This is evidence of the trend that I'm describing. In international law, we call it humanizatinon, the development away from a purely state-focused international order to an order that takes into account other entities.
> The Internet has not put an end to the nation state, much as some people on this list would like to believe. Try telling a traffic policeman that he can't arrest you because you're not a citizen but a netizen,  and see where you end up.
Nobody who is serious believes that the Internet puts an end to the nation state. But nobody who wants to be taken seriously should argue that there have been no changes to the way legal and paralegal norms bearing upon the Internet are created and implemented.

And regarding the policeman: Go to him and ask him to help you in arresting the, say,  Tajistikan-based spammer with Australian nationality who uses servers in Sao Tomé ... and see where it gets you.

Regarding David&Michael: I haven't forgotten you, but I am travelling ... so bear with me, I'll get to you soon. 
And no, the Nazis enver got to power legitimaely. In the last free elections they received a third of the vote. They then used a campaign of intimidaiton, violence and fear. BTW: Respect Godwin's Law: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law 

Cheers
Matthias  



________________________________________
Von: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] im Auftrag von Riaz K Tayob [riaz.tayob at gmail.com]
Gesendet: Dienstag, 02. Oktober 2012 10:08
An: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Norbert Klein
Betreff: Re: [governance] Principles

I am always open to optimism of the will and pessimism of the intellect (ok I try...often unsuccesfully)...

The contextual issues in MSG at IGF are missing from the commodious term democracy (of which there are many)... let me put it blunty from a CIR perspective... we have a non-binding IGF with MSG but are effectively precluded from discussing CIR in large order... one would have expected a non-binding inclusive process to be just the opposite... perhaps more work is needed with some guidance from critics otherwise we just a half glass full while others drink up the water while we are not looking...


On 2012/10/01 05:07 PM, Norbert Klein wrote:

Interesting and important.

My question relates to this part: “the degree to which such processes could at all be called ``democratic`` at least within any definition of the term that I (or I would expect most of us) would understand.”

There is an assumption what “most of us” would expect – but it is not defined.

So I assume – maybe wrongly? - it is a kind of “one man (or woman) one vote”? If not – so what? Please elaborate.

This surely was a good principle – it was used a lot arguing, for example, against the South African Apartheid regime which rejected it.

Was it a triumph of democracy when the National Socialists (the “Nationalsozialisten” = Nazi”), with the help of the German National People's Party<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_National_People%27s_Party>, were victorious in elections in March 1933 – starting a dark age of German history, tremendous damage on many others too.

“Demo-cracy” hints at a concept that the will of the people governs. But how?

The Cambodian People's Party has gained more and more seats in the National Assembly through every vote since 1993 – but the UN Special Rapporteur on the Situation of Human Rights in Cambodia has raised serious concerns because the electoral system – especially the National Election Committee – is controlled by government appointees, NOT representing the plurality of parties in the National Assembly. And thousands and thousands of people forcefully evicted from their traditional areas of residency have not only lost their homes, but they are no longer on residency related voter lists.

Is the one-country-one-vote - on the UN level – more democratic, where 14 million Cambodia have the same vote-weight as 235+ million of Indonesia?

The question is not only: What is democratic? – In the actual situations where we live it means also: How do we move towards the good goal that “the people's” benefits (not the majority of the people who voted in the Nazis in Germany, I add, without offering at the same time a rationale for my personal opinion here) are central?

It is on this background that I well understand the short statement (which is open to misunderstandings) about Internet Governance:

“Multistakeholderism *IS* the highest form of participatory democracy”

If it is not – so what else, and how?

Norbert Klein
Phnom Penh/Cambodia


=

On 10/1/2012 7:59 PM, michael gurstein wrote:

Wolfgang and all,

I`ve just had an opportunity to observe at somewhat close hand a series of
multi-stakeholder processes at work (in Agriculture planning) in several
African countries... I was quite impressed for a number of reasons which I
won`t go into here (I`m currently working on the report...

However, one conclusion that I would draw is that while
`multi-stakeholderism` is in at least some instances very effective as an
inclusive, let`s say `participative` management tool it is very far from
what I, or I think almost anyone would call ``democratic`` (unless, as in
some I think, quite perverse instances, one chooses to conflate the notions
of management with democracy).

The problem is that while multi-stakeholderism is inclusive of interests it
is not necessarily accountable or representative of or for those interests.
So for example, while a national or reagional farmers` union might be a very
effective stakeholder representative of the interests of small holder
farmers the precise process of accountability and representivity is in many
instances a very open question subject to for example, the personailities of
individuals, literacy, access to media and information, political
interference etc. etc. The latter caveats do not preclude the former
affirmations but they do strongly bracket the degree to which such processes
could at all be called ``democratic`` at least within any definition of the
term that I (or I would expect most of us) would understand.

I think your broad objective of pursuing a framework for multi-stakeholder
governance of the Internet is a worthwhile one and one I hope to contribute
to in Baku, however, I think a useful outcome of that initiative would still
leave open the question of overall democractic governance and accountability
of the Internet.

Best,

Mike


-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From riaz.tayob at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 05:15:22 2012
From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 12:15:22 +0300
Subject: [governance] Principles
In-Reply-To: <8CF6E38BA1CF2C1-2348-75191@webmail-d167.sysops.aol.com>
References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com> <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org> <CACAaNxhbB9GNvropAXac41J0vCeG7ofX9dRJrSLFKcjMpbhSbQ@mail.gmail.com> <CA+=oXBJVT+n9A9uKSeh5qu3ox+Qw99xSTci+s6bSXaYnWC1_gA@mail.gmail.com> <02350A3A-0235-4E7A-B1D0-5D6ED84AEE4C@safernet.org.br> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <506944F6.1090501@itforchange.net> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3C5@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <1025562875.8772.1349081476302.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f27> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3CE@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <04e201cd9fd4$93de6080$bb9b2180$@gmail.com>	<5069A3AF.7060500@gmx.net> <005c01cd9fe2$30ca9320$925fb960$@gmail.com> <4867EA09-80AD-40ED-9487-56E0ED02C9F3@post.harvard.edu>,<20121001222306.31a0349c@quill.bollow.ch> <E7F950D1E0C75744892C09CBFA0EB3522CF8435755@ARTEMIS.pers.ad.uni-graz.at> <6819FD91-3470-43FD-AA07-1A7D1268C8FA@post.harvard.edu> <8CF6E38BA1CF2C1-2348-75191@webmail-d167.sysops.aol.com
 >
Message-ID: <506AB0AA.8090202@gmail.com>

+ 1
On 2012/10/02 01:10 AM, Koven Ronald wrote:
> Dear All --
>
> This discussion really can't be serious. It opens up an incredible can 
> of worms and seems to be posited on the notion that the Internet has 
> revoked the 2,500 previous years of political philosophy and history. 
> The nation state is going to be with us for the foreseeable future 
> (that is to say, our lifetimes) as the source and locus of law and 
> power. The Internet has not put an end to the nation state, much as 
> some people on this list would like to believe. Try telling a traffic 
> policeman that he can't arrest you because you're not a citizen but a 
> netizen,  and see where you end up.
>
> Cheers, Rony Koven
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121002/c42e2ea7/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From riaz.tayob at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 05:17:06 2012
From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 12:17:06 +0300
Subject: [governance] Principles
In-Reply-To: <506A8E8D.8070608@cavebear.com>
References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com> <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org> <CACAaNxhbB9GNvropAXac41J0vCeG7ofX9dRJrSLFKcjMpbhSbQ@mail.gmail.com> <CA+=oXBJVT+n9A9uKSeh5qu3ox+Qw99xSTci+s6bSXaYnWC1_gA@mail.gmail.com> <02350A3A-0235-4E7A-B1D0-5D6ED84AEE4C@safernet.org.br> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <506944F6.1090501@itforchange.net> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3C5@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <506A8E8D.8070608@cavebear.com>
Message-ID: <506AB112.4080004@gmail.com>

the critique you mention is sustained (it seems) by liberal notions of 
formal equality (i.e. Google is the same as IT4C - when in fact there 
are qualitative differences)... which is partly the reason why 
discussing the merits of MSG is so fraught with difficulty...

On 2012/10/02 09:49 AM, Karl Auerbach wrote:


-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From iza at anr.org  Tue Oct  2 07:18:54 2012
From: iza at anr.org (Izumi AIZU)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 20:18:54 +0900
Subject: [governance] WCIT - CS
In-Reply-To: <D8C23E08-8D3B-4902-828D-394D8FBDA69B@uzh.ch>
References: <506089AD.3020007@itforchange.net> <DC755FDE6D024C91AA8A0997F89F64BB@stateless>
 <CAFabd1LJcZ4k-=Zm-PQjBFLR9g6njZv7E_-doHXwj23c_V7Vzg@mail.gmail.com>
 <50617C44.6020104@itforchange.net> <CA+EjHYrvwfY9xq86ZZuH2S4nThRoyqXazJL-fe_Q_tARHJ28bw@mail.gmail.com>
 <506187A9.1060903@itforchange.net> <50618D5F.7000601@digsys.bg>
 <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD375@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
 <CA+YNoKh1Rf_2CFxpmrkCvkV+rt3fgo1dx9V9t-qWKJ+e_hfjGA@mail.gmail.com> <D8C23E08-8D3B-4902-828D-394D8FBDA69B@uzh.ch>
Message-ID: <CA+YNoKj5BxZncTaOKQPj_Eu-UqAKEqevUCbHA+fSQE5JrwUjJw@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Bill for attending there.

Is there anyone who could draft a short IGC statement to be delivered
there? Else, we trust Bill to pick up our summary position to share
there.

izumi

2012/10/2 William Drake <william.drake at uzh.ch>:
> Hi
>
> I will be there.  If a new input of some sort is developed I'm happy to pass it along.  If not, I can either channel the main thrust of caucus discussions re: an ITU role since we started discussing this in Feb. 03, or I can speak with a different hat.  Either way, one of the goals of the Best Bits meeting Jeremy is organizing in Baku is to produce a statement for input, so that's another opportunity.
>
> Best
>
> Bill
>
> On Oct 2, 2012, at 4:38, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:
>
>> Dear list,
>> First, thanks Wolfgang for sharing this.
>>
>> I have to say that I am not following much on ITU/WCIT/ITR issues recently.
>>
>> Now, ITU is calling for Civil Society's opinions on the ITR, and hold
>> a meeting on Oct. 9 at their HQ in Geneva.
>>
>> What is your reaction?
>> Should we try to compile send our comments?
>> Are there anyone who could go to the meeting and express our views?
>> If we don't act now, we might be told later "we opened the door, but
>> you didn't enter", or just do not bother?
>>
>> best,
>>
>> izumi
>>
>>
>> 2012/9/26 "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang"
>> <wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de>:
>>> http://www.itu.int/en/wcit-12/Documents/WCIT%20Briefing%20Session%20for%20Civil%20Society%20Stakeholders.pdf
>>>
>>> FYI
>>>
>>> w
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>>> Izumi Aizu <<
>> Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
>> Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
>> Japan
>> www.anr.org
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>



-- 
                     >> Izumi Aizu <<
Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
Japan
www.anr.org

-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 07:54:32 2012
From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 20:54:32 +0900
Subject: [governance] Chinese Government "Hacks into White House Office in
 Charge of the Nuclear Launch Codes"
Message-ID: <CABBOhxrtMHkXonvzaV5McD0VRgnzPs-jH1jqZai2KuSXZXa0xg@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2211230/Chinese-government-hacks-White-House-office-charge-nuclear-launch-codes.html#ixzz287aCgv1N

   - White House confirmed the hack but downplayed it, saying no damage was
   done and it was unsuccessful
   - Military Office targeted which controls the President's travel,
   interoffice communications, and nuclear codes

Fahd
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121002/8e27f5cc/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From parminder at itforchange.net  Tue Oct  2 08:18:25 2012
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 17:48:25 +0530
Subject: [governance] Re: Principles
In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3C5@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com> <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org> <CACAaNxhbB9GNvropAXac41J0vCeG7ofX9dRJrSLFKcjMpbhSbQ@mail.gmail.com> <CA+=oXBJVT+n9A9uKSeh5qu3ox+Qw99xSTci+s6bSXaYnWC1_gA@mail.gmail.com> <02350A3A-0235-4E7A-B1D0-5D6ED84AEE4C@safernet.org.br> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <506944F6.1090501@itforchange.net> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3C5@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
Message-ID: <506ADB91.3070004@itforchange.net>

Dear Wolfgang,

Thanks for taking up this discussion on democracy vrs MSism . It is most 
needed.

Like many others here I react with horror about any assertion of MSism 
being the pinnacle of participatory democracy, or as Matthias K puts it, 
approvingly, MSism being post democratic (something I have been saying 
as an aspersion on MSism).

Let me use the schema I employed to describe to an government official 
recently what my vision of an appropriate IGF is. This was with regard 
to developing an India IGF model...

  This is how I described to him. I can see the (continued) progression 
of democracy in three versions. Version 1.0 was when elected officials 
assumed full authority to legislate and execute, once they were elected, 
without any reliance on any axillary democratic processes of public 
consultations. Ministries were steeped in deep secrecy and considerable 
aloofness from the public.

Ver 2.0 begun when elected officials started to employ some processes of 
democracy beyond elections, like undertaking public consultation on 
various legislative proposals, stakeholder consultations with those 
directly affected by any governmental measure, forming ad hoc or 
standing committees with civil society and outside expert 
participations, instituting right to information legislations  etc..... 
However, at this stage, public participation was still largely ad hoc, 
mostly on the terms of the government, and largely not institutionalised.

Ver 3.0 of democracy (and ver 2.0 of participatory democracy) is about 
strong institutionalisation of means and processes of participation 
(outside of elections) in an ongoing manner, whereby the agenda of such 
participation can be set with a greatly curtailed influence of the 
government, if any, the processes are largely out of control of 
governments and so on. It is independently institutionalised, funded, 
legitimised, etc. However, there is never a doubt that actual policy 
making authority remains with representative democratic bodies (how much 
improvement they my need which is to be pursued at another level). There 
has always to be sufficiently clear difference between institutions of 
participation, while they have to made as strong and inclusive as 
possible,  and those of legislation and execution. I support Norbert's 
recent assertions in this regard.

Well, this is how I said I see UN IGF normatively as. A path breaking 
innovation in global democracy denoting Ver 3.0 of democracy, which 
should also be replicated at national levels.

Now, this Democracy 3.0 model is not necessarily an invention of the the 
IG space. A lot of theoretical and practical work in the area of 
institutionalising participatory democracy has been done, especially 
over the last decade or two.  John Gaventa's work, especially on invited 
versus invented spaces of participation, comes to mind in this regard. 
There is also the famous Porto Alegre initiative of institutionalising 
public participation, through participatory budget exercises.  Lately 
ICTs have been used in Porto Alegre and other places to improve the 
ambit and effectiveness of participation. So, yes, ICTs do provide what 
is perhaps a transformational new context to possibilities of 
institutionalising participation.

As said, I see/ saw UN IGF as a Democracy 3.0 experiment, which however 
has now increasingly being high-jacked by special interests, largely in 
aid of global digital corporates. Unfortunately, MS-ism instead of being 
another name for Democracy 3.0 as some people here are trying to argue, 
has, in practice, mostly represented everything which seems going wrong 
with the IGF, and other new age information society policy mechanisms.

It is bit surprising that in this very interesting discussion on 
relationship or difference between democracy and MSism, no one has 
pointed to the elephant in the room. It is of course the growing 
economic, social and political power of mega corporates, and how a good 
amount of MSism in practice is a front for political legitimisation of 
corporatist power in ordering our societies. The article at 
http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/how-google-lobbies-german-government-over-internet-regulation-a-857654-druck.html 
on how Google has infiltrated most 'participatory processes' in and 
around Germany's IG space makes the case rather eloquently. Then one 
reads how 84 out of 108 Google lobbyists in the US are ex gov employees 
and what influence it exercises on the behaviour of expectant government 
officials still in service (http://keionline.org/node/1555 ). And now, 
in Brazil, we find that Google thinks that it has some kind of 
independent jurisdictional status whereby it can decide what to do or 
not do with national laws, using its Internet based powers, including by 
making backhanded appeals to users 
(http://people.oii.ox.ac.uk/thompson/2012/09/27/on-the-arrest-of-googles-head-in-brazil/ 
).

The institutionalisation of participatory spaces and processes of 
Democracy 3.0 needs to be done with no less care then was done in the 
case of basic representative democracy. It needs similar building of 
values, norms and highest principles, and also, most importantly, 
safeguards against capture. Unfortunately most adherents of MSism are 
averse to any deep discussions on these issues. And to me that is the 
principal undoing of MSism.

Matthias, if you can critique current relevance of democracy citing the 
difference between formal and material forms of democracy, maybe it is 
also worthwhile to pay attention to difference between formal and 
material aspects of MSism. Almost all the stuff I read about MSism in 
such discussions as this one is about formal MSism, which is made to 
look so good and inclusive. On the other hand, almost all of the 
material reality that I see around me of MSism (in IG) is about a very 
thinly veiled apology (and legitimisation) for growing political power 
of mega global digital corporates. Also worth a PhD for someone I 
suppose :) .

Parminder



On Monday 01 October 2012 01:22 PM, "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" wrote:
> Parminder:
> multistakeholderism (whats wrong with participatory democracy?)
>   
> Wolfgang:
> Multistakeholderism *IS* the highest form of participatory democracy
>   
> Parminder:
> improvements to internationalism & national laws
>   
> Wolfgang:
> To errect (national) legal barriers for the free flow of information among people is a bad idea and contrary to individual human right to freedom of expression. Governments have an obligation under international law to guarantee access to and the distribution of information "regardless of frontiers". To undermine the borderless nature of the Internet and to introduce a system for Internet communication similar to global travel arrangements, (where you need a permission (visa) to leave or enter a country) brings us back into the cold war of the 20th century and would have bad and sad economic and social consequences in particular for individuals in developing countries.
>   
> In this context I repeat my proposal to start in Baku with the work on a global "Multistakeholder Framework of Committment" on Internet Governance and Internet Freedom (FoC) which could take on board all the ideas and proposals expressed in the 20+ Internet Governance Principles declarations, resolutions and guidelines which has been adopted in the last two years by IBSA, Shanghai, OECD, CoE, OSCE, UNESCO and numerous non-governmental platforms, including the IGF Dynamic Coalition in Rights and Principles. The message from Baku should be to invite the MAG to form a WGIG like multistakeholder group of experts (during its February 2013 meeting in Paris) and to draft until the 8th IGF a first outline with the aim to have a substantial draft for high level discussion at the 9th IGF in 2014 and to adopt such a FoC by acclamation at the 10th IGF in 2015.
>   
> wolfgang
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121002/3f86c05c/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From riaz.tayob at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 09:14:03 2012
From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz Tayob)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 16:14:03 +0300
Subject: [governance] Re: Principles
In-Reply-To: <506ADB91.3070004@itforchange.net>
References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com>
 <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org> <CACAaNxhbB9GNvropAXac41J0vCeG7ofX9dRJrSLFKcjMpbhSbQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+=oXBJVT+n9A9uKSeh5qu3ox+Qw99xSTci+s6bSXaYnWC1_gA@mail.gmail.com>
 <02350A3A-0235-4E7A-B1D0-5D6ED84AEE4C@safernet.org.br> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
 <506944F6.1090501@itforchange.net> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3C5@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
 <506ADB91.3070004@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <CABOQGyCC_+6mHC1EgcoTVf6LYC325D1GQK7g0YQxxrH=RrfOCA@mail.gmail.com>

Parminder

Formal equality of corporations as people (entitled to all sorts of rights,
including funding the electoral process in the US after Citizens United
decisions) is being taken up by a number of groups including at the state
level of the US...

The assumptions of formal equality are really problematic, because they
apply deductive logic to the subject they address, and can be viewed as
ideological in the sense that it excludes uncomfortable facts.

Riaz

On 2 October 2012 15:18, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> wrote:
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121002/90a104cf/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From riaz.tayob at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 09:17:24 2012
From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz Tayob)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 16:17:24 +0300
Subject: [governance] The Bicycle-Powered Internet?
In-Reply-To: <24633757.1349152330286.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <24633757.1349152330286.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CABOQGyAZCgHfqWkmf1e-p+52U3+uGHsksHX9X6tpur-5EZSSjA@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.greens.org/s-r/59/59-06.html
*Eat, Sleep, Click: The Bicycle-Powered Internet*

by Jane Anne Morris

Save a tree, bank online. Subscribe online, reduce your carbon footprint.
Listen to music online, watch movies online, read books online. No mess, no
fuss. Google Inc. has photovoltaic (PV) solar panels on its headquarters.
With all that footprint-lightening, you may soon be down to no ecological
footprint at all, right?

Since everyone wants the Internet to have a gentle footprint and not be
"evil," we should power it with green electricity. Start with a bicycle
generator and a server. Here are some back-of-the-envelope figures.

All the stuff on the Internet, or in the "cloud," is kept aloft by
computers called servers (plus routers and so on). An average server draws
400 watts/hour, half of that for cooling (fairly typical), and 3500
kilowatt-hours (kWh) per year, [1] because it never shuts down.

*A healthy biker can produce a constant 100 watts/hour on a bicycle
generator, a generous estimate. Four generator bikes at 100 watts/hour
apiece would power a server. Alas, that single server can't accomplish much
by itself. Various techies have estimated that a single online search
activates between 1000 and 20,000 servers, often located all over the
world.

Numerous servers are housed together in places called server farms or data
centers. To power a modest-sized data center (50,000 servers) by bicycle
power would require almost a million pedalers and an area equivalent to 347
football fields. [2] Data centers can be as small as closets at the back of
a business, or as large as several football fields and use as much
electricity as small cities. They run 24/7/365, and tend to have multipl
redundant backup systems, so no one has to wait 10 seconds to learn from a
web site if it's raining outside.*

What finally matters is not this or that server or data center, but the
overall Internet electricity use. How much bicycle power would it take to
run the Internet? Later we can figure out how to landscape the facility,
and decide where to put the snack bars and port-a-potties.

The EPA's conservative and dated number for 2006 Internet electricity use
within the US alone is 60 billion kWh. Getting that much electricity from
the setup described above would require 600 million bike generators.
Assuming 6-hour pedaling shifts, that would take 2.4 billion pedalers.
Think of the stimulus to the global economy: pedaling jobs for the entire
populations of the US (305 million), Canada (33 million), Mexico (110
million), South America (382 million), India (1.5 billion), and Japan (127
million).

Five years later, that number has doubled (at least). It is widely claimed
that in 2010 the Internet used 3% of US electricity (3884 billion kWh),
which is 117 billion kWh. So, we're now talking about 1.2 billion bike
generators and 4.8 billion pedalers.

In 2007, an independent outsider who is not on the dole of the IT industry
calculated that US Internet energy use was around 350 billion kWh annually,
approximately six times the EPA's 2006 estimate, [3] and three times the
conservative 2010 estimate used above. I will use the lower numbers, but
actual Internet electricity use may be much higher.

What about worldwide Internet electricity use? Available 2010 estimates—200
billion kWh [4] — are probably conservative. Whatâat's that in bicycles?

Using the same assumptions as before, that worldwide Internet could be
powered by a mere two billion bike generators, with 8 billion people
pedaling. (Current world (over)population is 7 billion.) If you placed that
many bicycles end-to-end, they would reach far enough for three round trips
to the moon, and then a trip back up.

Who would want to design a bicycle-generator system to power the Internet?
Someone who wanted to imagine a human-scale equivalent for how much energy
the Internet already sucks up. What about other "renewable" energy sources?

Solar and wind-powered Internet

At the biggest, most successful photovoltaic projects in the world, the
rule of thumb is that 10 acres of panels produces a megawatt of capacity
(as would 10,000 bicycle generators). A square mile (640 acres) could
provide 64 MW. Each megawatt might yield 1.5 million kWh/year, so the
annual kWh from a square mile of good solar would be 96 million.

Generating an annual 117 billion kWh (2010 US Internet use) with solar
would require at least 1220 square miles of PV panels, and 78,000 MW. [5]
For the 200 billion kWh number for world Internet use, it would take 2081
square miles (that's Delaware) and 133,200 MW.

What about a wind-powered Internet? Experience in the wind turbine industry
(and again in the choicest spots), has shown that it's good to get 20 MW of
capacity per square mile. Three million kWh a year from each megawatt of
capacity is also optimistic.

Using wind turbines to get that 117 billion kWh for 2010 US Internet
electricity use would require 1950 square miles. [6] The 200 billion kWh
for 2010 world Internet use would require *3300 square miles*. Most wind
power sites are less productive than the sites from which these numbers
were derived.

*
*It's not appropriate to compare solar and wind directly to conventional
power plants. Except for maintenance and accidents, coal and nuke plants
operate 24/7, though demand drops at night. In contrast, solar is always
down at night, and wind is variable, exactly what data centers can't be.

*With solar, more than half the electricity would have to be stored for use
when little or no power is generated. The huge batteries necessary for
storing this much power look like a cross between upturned railroad freight
cars and electric substations. They require space, maintenance, and
cooling. Every time energy is converted from one form to another (like
rotating energy to electrical energy to heat energy, or electricity into
batteries and then out again) energy is lost. That slippage increases the
initial kWh necessary, but I have not factored that in.*

Also omitted in calculations here are the power lines, substations,
maintenance roads, other support facilities, and ladders and buckets of
ammonia water to clean PV panels. Not to mention the fact that most areas
don't get nearly as much sun as the prize spots already selected for large
solar arrays. I'm also not considering the resources needed to manufacture,
transport, and maintain the PV panels. Similar considerations apply to wind
power.

Solar and wind have different advantages. Fewer acres of solar than wind
are required for each MW of capacity (10 versus 32), but for each MW
capacity of wind, you get more kWh/year (3 million as compared to 1.5
million). That is because you are never, ever, going to average more than
12 hours daily of solar. However, you might average more than that for
wind, depending on location and circumstances.

Megawhat?
A solar panel rated at one kilowatt of capacity will produce one
kilowatt-hour of energy if the sun shines on it steadily for an hour. Terms
like megawatt, kilowatt, and watt express power or capacity, while
megawatt-hour, kilowatt-hour, and watt-hour measure energy. A kilowatt is a
thousand watts; a megawatt is a million watts or a thousand kilowatts.

At the scale necessary to power data centers, solar, wind, and even bicycle
power involve considerable habitat loss. Bicycle space to power the 2010 US
Internet would be about 4304 square miles (about the size of the
Everglades). For the 2010 world Internet, about the combined area of
Delaware and Connecticut. When chunks of ecosystem are shoveled into
industrialism's mill, Gaia is diminished. Acres sacrificed to solar arrays,
wind farms, power line rights of way, or thousands of bicycle generator
pads destroy habitat no less than those given over to GMO crops, cooling
ponds, interstate highways, and parking lots.

Energy-intensive, thy name is Internet

*How can the Internet use so much electricity? Suppose you have an awesome
video of your cat at a laptop using her little cat feet to scroll through
online celebrity cats in fetching poses. (Click for full screen.) It's
stored in your email account, and you have a copy on your laptop and/or
handheld. Your email is backed up by the company that offers it, and you
have backup service for your laptop, so that's more Internet storage space
on servers somewhere; then the back-up companies back up their back-ups.
You send the cat video to 50 people. Some store it in their emails; some
download it and have it backed up on their own online backup systems; some
send it out to a few other people; and some do all three. How many places
can we find the cat? It's a hall of mirrors, a grain of wheat doubling on
each square of a chessboard. All of it eats kilowatt-hours. How much
fracking is that cat porn worth to you?*
*
All online content is not born equal. It takes very little electricity to
support text, even italics. Graphics such as photos and drawings are much
more energy-intensive. Music exceeds even graphics, and video (bouncing
bunnies, or time-lapse wrinkle cream results) is the greediest of all.
*
*Online action is hosted and processed in massive data centers that use up
to 100 or even 200 MW of demand; data center operators are not often eager
to release this information. Chicago's Lakeside Technology Center (a data
center) reportedly draws 100 MW, a higher electric demand than any other
Commonwealth Edison customer except O'Hare airport. A quick check reveals
what a "renewable" electricity supply would look like for a facility like
this. With bike generators: over a million generators, over four million
pedalers, and almost half a million acres, which is 757 square miles
(almost three times the size of Chicago). Probably not available anywhere
near the Loop. Using solar panels: 2917 acres (2210 football fields), not
counting battery space, which is also probably not in the Chicago zoning
plan. Using wind in the "windy city": 9347 acres (or 7081 football fields),
again not counting battery space.*

*As Alex Roslin of the Montreal Gazette put it, if the Internet were a
country, it would be the fifth biggest power consumer, ahead of India &
Germany.* [7]

Who is paying for this?

Tax breaks and other subsidies are common for data centers. Even
modest-sized ones often reap government subsidies for drawing huge amounts
of electricity and providing fewer jobs per buck, or per kWh, than almost
any other kind of facility.

For instance, in 2007 a Google Inc. data center got tax breaks on utility
bills, plus a property tax exemption. *Iowa'*s own web site describes the
tax exemption as including "cooling systems, cooling towers, and other
temperature control infrastructure.... also exempt from property tax are
all power infrastructure for transformation, distribution, or management of
electricity used for the maintenance and operation of the web search
portal, including but not limited to exterior dedicated business owned
substations, back-up power generation systems, battery systems, and related
infrastructure; and racking systems, cabling, and trays, which are
necessary for the maintenance and operation of the web search portal."

Iowa even calculated its expected tax losses: $3.6 million in 2009, $12.7
million in 2010, $22 million in 2011, and $32.7 million in 2012. The
corporation got a similar deal in North Carolina, where estimates of tax
losses to the state were approximately $97 million over 30 years.

*Lack of enforcement of environmental and occupational safety laws across
the board is an often-overlooked form of subsidy available to large
corporations, including data centers. This includes the cradle-to-grave
production, processing, transport, and use of nuclear and fossil fuels, as
well as the toxic waste and byproducts of same. Companies burn through
energy and resources far more cheaply than would be possible if laws "on
the books" were enforced.*

Finally, there are those bargain-basement electricity bills. Data
center *electricity
rates* are as low as 3–4¢/kWh, while residential customers pay much higher
rates: easily 15, 20, 25¢/kWh, and even steeper when charges for
distribution and other fees are included. [8]

*The public is massively subsidizing data centers, the Internet, and the
profits of IT corporations. Yet, many corporations with huge data centers
are not eager to advertise their locations, and use third parties to
negotiate their deals. Some go to great lengths to hide their electricity
use. In 2007, for example, at Google Inc.'s urging, Oklahoma rewrote its
open records law to allow data center owners to conceal from the public the
amount of electricity used.*

If inefficiency is not the problem, efficiency is not the solution

When I raise the issue of the massive electricity use of all things
Internet, everyone tells me how efficient IT is becoming.

*The idea that efficiency reduces consumption is at best debatable, and at
worst a public relations scam. As Don Fitz wrote in "Why Energy Efficiency
Isn't Reducing Consumption" (Synthesis/Regeneration 50:30, 2009), over a
century and a half of research on the relationship between efficiency and
consumption of a resource has marshaled considerable evidence that the
opposite is true. Since Stanley Jevons documented that coal consumption
increased 10-fold after smelters tripled their efficiency (The Coal
Question, 1865), the phenomenon has been called the Jevons Paradox.
Historically, in capitalist systems, increased efficiency has led to more
consumption, not less.*

Being efficient is good, but it does not mean sustainable, it does not mean
green, and it does not portend reduced consumption. Data center efficiency
is improving, and Google Inc.'s are reputed to be among the best. *But when
Gaia is diminished by the ripping out of coal and the dumping of sludge,
her suffering is in no way reduced if the resulting electricity is used
"efficiently." Earth's problem is not the inefficiency of resource use, but
the quantity. Ask Gaia*.

Food, internet, spam

Why do we figure out the ecological implications of eating a hamburger but
not clicking a search? When it comes to food, the green or even greenish
band of the political spectrum is all over it. Local food. Organic food.
Slow food. Urban agriculture. Permaculture. Rooftop gardens. Alice Waters,
Will Allen, Michael Pollan. "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants." Fast
food nation. Eat low on the food chain.

But *when it comes to the Internet, people spout shallow unexamined cliches
as they tap at sleek, shiny gadgets. The PV panels at Google Inc.'s
headquarters and other cheap stunts deflect attention from the enormity of
Internet energy use*. Engineering Professor Mohamed Cheriet, at Montreal's
Ecole de Technologie Superieure, who works on "green" IT innovation,
gushes, "We've found the key to the problem: Follow the wind, follow the
sun." [9] The Internet is the fast food triple bacon cheeseburger of
communications, yet people are convinced it's green.

*Are the brains who figured out it takes 150 or 630 or 1300 gallons of
water to produce a hamburger just out to lunch when it comes to the
Internet? Why is the Internet—a global system if there ever was one—immune
from the same analysis? Spending two hours on the porch showing your
neighbor your family photo album is not especially energy-intensive. Doing
so online, and sending it around to everyone on your email list, carries
vastly higher ecological costs. *

File Size Matters
A text-only file of the Bible is approximately 1.5 MB. With pictures,
depending on how elaborate, it is closer to 100 MB. A 2-hour video about
the greatest story ever told would use up more like 1-1.5 GB. Comparing
music and video, a 4-minute video would use about 24 MB, while 4 minutes of
music would use only about 4 MB.

What's the actual content that billions of publicly subsidized kWh go to
support? Nicholas Carr (The Big Switch, 2008) estimated in 1996 that 94% of
all emails are spam, and that there may be 85 billion spams a day. This
year, John Markoff in the New York Times claimed that about *90% of all
email is still spam*, and that one single spam campaign generated three
emails for each person on the planet, some 21 billion messages. Ken Auletta
(Googled, 2009) suggested that *as many as a quarter of all searches are
for porn*. According to Alex Roslin at the Montreal Gazette, 250 billion
emails are sent daily. [10] The study Markoff referenced suggested that
over 12 million messages were needed to sell $100 of Viagra. [11] Dennis
Walsh from green at work, among others, states that over 200 million Internet
searches happen daily in the US alone; 100 million photos are uploaded
daily. Google Inc. has reported that it carries out about a billion
searches per day, according to James Glanz in the New York Times. [12]

One person estimated that *fantasy football* aficionados spent 2.4 billion
hours online per season. [13] Online games, role-playing, social
networking, gambling, and an almost unbelievable amount of advertising are
up there in the "cloud" at tremendous energy cost. Much of it is not the
relatively energy-cheap text, but the photos, music, video, bouncing
cartoons, and interactive click-fests that are hundreds or thousands of
times more energy-intensive. Subsidizing the entire current Internet system
because an activist can upload photos of strip mining and clearcutting is
like subsidizing an industrial-sized Wal-Mart because six feet of shelf
space holds organic spinach.

The Internet is not, and will not be, powered by so-called renewable
energy, magical energy that is somehow without consequences. Sleek, glowing
screens may hide the truth from people who don't want to hear about it, but
the consequences remain. The real costs of Internet electricity use are
being cast over state boundaries and national borders, across class,
ethnic, and species lines, and onto future generations.

In hindsight, most wish that we had used a little more foresight about the
automobile. Today is a good time to look up from our screens and take
advantage of the fact that we are still in the Model T era of the Internet.

*If we keep pretending that the Internet is innocuous, neutral, democratic,
clean, and green, we can look forward to more iPipelines, iFracking,
iMountaintop Removal, iCoal Plants, iNukes, iStripmining, iSpecies
Extinction, iHabitat Loss, iClimate Change, iTar Sands, iSludge, iOil
spills, iFloods, and continued iResource Wars.*

Or, we can begin to give it the attention we give a burger.

-------------------------
*Corporate anthropologist Jane Anne Morris (democracythemepark.org), whose
most recent book is Gaveling Down the Rabble: How "Free Trade" is Stealing
Our Democracy (Apex/Rowman & Littlefield, 2008), first wrote about Internet
energy use in "The Energy Nightmare of Web Server Farms: Feet in the Cloud,
Head in the Sand," Synthesis/Regeneration: A Magazine of Green Social
Thought, Winter 2008 (here).*


*Notes*

1. 400 watts/server, for 8760 hours, would be 3,504,000 watt hours, or 3500
kWh a year necessary for one server.

2. Assume 4 pedalers (6-hour shifts) for each bike generator. 57,600 sq. ft
in a football field, or 1.32 acres, including end zones. 43,560 feet per
acre. 20,000,000 divided by 57,600 is 200,000 divided by 576 which is
347.22 or 347 football fields. In acres it is 459.136. (200,000 generators,
800,000 pedalers, twenty million square feet).

3. David Sarokin, untitled blog answer, Sat. Aug. 18, 2007, estimating
"electricity consumption for the Internet," with assumptions and
discussion. This same DS estimated world usage at that time as 868 billion
kWh/year. Sarokin data includes pc's, modems, etc.

4. Rich Miller, Google's Energy Story: High Efficiency, Huge Scale,
September 8, 2011, Data Center Knowledge website datacenterknowledge.com,
quoting a report by Jon Koomey, whose estimate for 2010 was 198.8 billion
kWh, worldwide, for Internet use. I rounded that to 200 billion kWh.

5. I looked up the major solar PV projects in the world and took a rough
average. 117 billion kWh divided by 96 million per square mile yields the
number of square miles =1218.75 = 1219 square miles; 117 billion divided by
1.5 million kWh/yr yields number of megawatts = 78,000 MW.

6. I looked up the major wind projects in the world and took a rough
average. 20 MW per sq. mile, 3 million kWh per MW, so 60 million kWh per sq
mile, so would need 117 divided by 60 = 1950 square miles.

7. Alex Roslin (Postmedia News), Could the Net be killing the planet one
web search at a time? in the Montreal Gazette, June 3, 2011.

8. One source for this is Ron Starner, Is Energy Still Oklahoma's Trump
Card? Site Selection Online, July 2007.

9. Alex Roslin, Dirty Data: The Internet's Giant Carbon Footprint, June 4,
2011, Montreal Gazette.

10. Alex Roslin (Postmedia News), Could the Net... Montreal Gazette June 3,
2011.

11. John Markoff, Study Sees Way to Win Spam Fight, NYT , May 20, 2011.

12. James Glanz, Google Details, and Defends, Its Use of Electricity, NYT,
Sept. 9, 2011.

13. http://www.joulex.net/Green_IT_Blog/bid/58292/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121002/f50ecb81/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From iza at anr.org  Tue Oct  2 10:45:20 2012
From: iza at anr.org (Izumi AIZU)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 23:45:20 +0900
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
Message-ID: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list,

We need to select Civil Society speakers for the Baku Main session,
I think one for the opening and another for the closing session.

Please send your suggestions and nominations asap.

izumi

-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From iliya.bazlyankov at uninet.bg  Tue Oct  2 11:29:38 2012
From: iliya.bazlyankov at uninet.bg (Iliya Bazlyankov)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 18:29:38 +0300
Subject: [governance] Host website for the first Bulgarian IGF discussions
In-Reply-To: <CAC2SYrPUdnP3zA2H8Guevu-b_inHHpLNE80RP41PCaDdJ5FbpQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC2SYrPUdnP3zA2H8Guevu-b_inHHpLNE80RP41PCaDdJ5FbpQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <506B0862.1070304@uninet.bg>

Dear Colleagues,

We are organizing the first Bulgarian IGF discussions on 16 November, 
together with the annual Domain Forum meeting.

The registration is now open at the host website 
(http://www.domainforum.bg), and the draft agenda is published at 
http://www.domainforum.bg/draft-agenda-igf/

You are more than welcome to join us in Sofia for the event.

Best regards,
Iliya Bazlyankov

-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From glaser at cgi.br  Tue Oct  2 11:31:21 2012
From: glaser at cgi.br (Hartmut Richard Glaser)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 12:31:21 -0300
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br>


Carlos Afonso from Brazil ....

==============================
On 02/10/12 11:45, Izumi AIZU wrote:
> Dear list,
>
> We need to select Civil Society speakers for the Baku Main session,
> I think one for the opening and another for the closing session.
>
> Please send your suggestions and nominations asap.
>
> izumi
>


-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From graciela at nupef.org.br  Tue Oct  2 13:20:22 2012
From: graciela at nupef.org.br (Graciela Selaimen)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 14:20:22 -0300
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com> <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br>
Message-ID: <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br>

+1!

best,
Graciela

Em 10/2/12 12:31 PM, Hartmut Richard Glaser escreveu:
>
> Carlos Afonso from Brazil ....
>
> ==============================
> On 02/10/12 11:45, Izumi AIZU wrote:
>> Dear list,
>>
>> We need to select Civil Society speakers for the Baku Main session,
>> I think one for the opening and another for the closing session.
>>
>> Please send your suggestions and nominations asap.
>>
>> izumi
>>
>
>

-- 
Graciela Selaimen
Instituto Nupef
www.nupef.org.br
www.politics.org.br
www.rets.org.br
www.tiwa.org.br


-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From andrespiazza at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 13:32:42 2012
From: andrespiazza at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piazza?=)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 14:32:42 -0300
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com>
	<506B08C9.90107@cgi.br>
	<506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br>
Message-ID: <CAB6RXGY7OsAYGW-fYMB0iYphU1PmPDgX0=jQSyVKsQLrX8Z1sg@mail.gmail.com>

+1

2012/10/2 Graciela Selaimen <graciela at nupef.org.br>

> +1!
>
> best,
> Graciela
>
> Em 10/2/12 12:31 PM, Hartmut Richard Glaser escreveu:
>
>
>> Carlos Afonso from Brazil ....
>>
>> ==============================
>> On 02/10/12 11:45, Izumi AIZU wrote:
>>
>>> Dear list,
>>>
>>> We need to select Civil Society speakers for the Baku Main session,
>>> I think one for the opening and another for the closing session.
>>>
>>> Please send your suggestions and nominations asap.
>>>
>>> izumi
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
> --
> Graciela Selaimen
> Instituto Nupef
> www.nupef.org.br
> www.politics.org.br
> www.rets.org.br
> www.tiwa.org.br
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
*Andrés Piazza*
www.andrespiazza.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121002/15364f5d/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From williams.deirdre at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 13:37:28 2012
From: williams.deirdre at gmail.com (Deirdre Williams)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 13:37:28 -0400
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <CAB6RXGY7OsAYGW-fYMB0iYphU1PmPDgX0=jQSyVKsQLrX8Z1sg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com>
 <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br> <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br> <CAB6RXGY7OsAYGW-fYMB0iYphU1PmPDgX0=jQSyVKsQLrX8Z1sg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMz5XN5FYb=QhnGszySAN6DpmaJA2yWWTx=Bnvz4+F9zQHYNLA@mail.gmail.com>

Good choice :-)
Deirdre

On 2 October 2012 13:32, Andrés Piazza <andrespiazza at gmail.com> wrote:

> +1
>
> 2012/10/2 Graciela Selaimen <graciela at nupef.org.br>
>
>> +1!
>>
>> best,
>> Graciela
>>
>> Em 10/2/12 12:31 PM, Hartmut Richard Glaser escreveu:
>>
>>
>>> Carlos Afonso from Brazil ....
>>>
>>> ==============================
>>> On 02/10/12 11:45, Izumi AIZU wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear list,
>>>>
>>>> We need to select Civil Society speakers for the Baku Main session,
>>>> I think one for the opening and another for the closing session.
>>>>
>>>> Please send your suggestions and nominations asap.
>>>>
>>>> izumi
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Graciela Selaimen
>> Instituto Nupef
>> www.nupef.org.br
>> www.politics.org.br
>> www.rets.org.br
>> www.tiwa.org.br
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *Andrés Piazza*
> www.andrespiazza.com
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
“The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121002/10f4645f/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From valeriab at apc.org  Tue Oct  2 13:39:45 2012
From: valeriab at apc.org (Valeria Betancourt)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 12:39:45 -0500
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <CAB6RXGY7OsAYGW-fYMB0iYphU1PmPDgX0=jQSyVKsQLrX8Z1sg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com> <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br> <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br> <CAB6RXGY7OsAYGW-fYMB0iYphU1PmPDgX0=jQSyVKsQLrX8Z1sg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2B3A777C-D73F-47E8-938E-44B0EF9F8902@apc.org>

+ 1

Valeria

On 02/10/2012, at 12:32, Andrés Piazza wrote:

> +1
>
> 2012/10/2 Graciela Selaimen <graciela at nupef.org.br>
> +1!
>
> best,
> Graciela
>
> Em 10/2/12 12:31 PM, Hartmut Richard Glaser escreveu:
>
>
> Carlos Afonso from Brazil ....
>
> ==============================
> On 02/10/12 11:45, Izumi AIZU wrote:
> Dear list,
>
> We need to select Civil Society speakers for the Baku Main session,
> I think one for the opening and another for the closing session.
>
> Please send your suggestions and nominations asap.
>
> izumi
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Graciela Selaimen
> Instituto Nupef
> www.nupef.org.br
> www.politics.org.br
> www.rets.org.br
> www.tiwa.org.br
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Andrés Piazza
> www.andrespiazza.com
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t





-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121002/7c6255cd/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From ivarhartmann at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 13:52:35 2012
From: ivarhartmann at gmail.com (Ivar A. M. Hartmann)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 14:52:35 -0300
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <2B3A777C-D73F-47E8-938E-44B0EF9F8902@apc.org>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com>
 <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br> <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br> <CAB6RXGY7OsAYGW-fYMB0iYphU1PmPDgX0=jQSyVKsQLrX8Z1sg@mail.gmail.com>
 <2B3A777C-D73F-47E8-938E-44B0EF9F8902@apc.org>
Message-ID: <CA+=oXBLVixTgGT1TUJHKLSXRv=WqgV2-nPnHuRbp5aNzfc45LA@mail.gmail.com>

+1
Ivar

On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Valeria Betancourt <valeriab at apc.org> wrote:

> + 1
>
> Valeria
>
> On 02/10/2012, at 12:32, Andrés Piazza wrote:
>
> +1
>
> 2012/10/2 Graciela Selaimen <graciela at nupef.org.br>
>
>> +1!
>>
>> best,
>> Graciela
>>
>> Em 10/2/12 12:31 PM, Hartmut Richard Glaser escreveu:
>>
>>
>>> Carlos Afonso from Brazil ....
>>>
>>> ==============================
>>> On 02/10/12 11:45, Izumi AIZU wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear list,
>>>>
>>>> We need to select Civil Society speakers for the Baku Main session,
>>>> I think one for the opening and another for the closing session.
>>>>
>>>> Please send your suggestions and nominations asap.
>>>>
>>>> izumi
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Graciela Selaimen
>> Instituto Nupef
>> www.nupef.org.br
>> www.politics.org.br
>> www.rets.org.br
>> www.tiwa.org.br
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *Andrés Piazza*
> www.andrespiazza.com
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121002/7e2799d1/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From gpaque at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 14:19:19 2012
From: gpaque at gmail.com (Ginger Paque)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 13:19:19 -0500
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <CAB6RXGY7OsAYGW-fYMB0iYphU1PmPDgX0=jQSyVKsQLrX8Z1sg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com>
 <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br> <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br> <CAB6RXGY7OsAYGW-fYMB0iYphU1PmPDgX0=jQSyVKsQLrX8Z1sg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALCecM8xN3HL1PDCO58cpFne1FDYZiwQJmoRkADQHTnP0TzOnA@mail.gmail.com>

+1 for Carlos Afonso, and with the suggestion that Sala be our other
speaker.
Cheers, Ginger

Ginger (Virginia) Paque

VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu
Diplo Foundation
Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme
www.diplomacy.edu/ig
**
**



On 2 October 2012 12:32, Andrés Piazza <andrespiazza at gmail.com> wrote:

> +1
>
> 2012/10/2 Graciela Selaimen <graciela at nupef.org.br>
>
>> +1!
>>
>> best,
>> Graciela
>>
>> Em 10/2/12 12:31 PM, Hartmut Richard Glaser escreveu:
>>
>>
>>> Carlos Afonso from Brazil ....
>>>
>>> ==============================
>>> On 02/10/12 11:45, Izumi AIZU wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear list,
>>>>
>>>> We need to select Civil Society speakers for the Baku Main session,
>>>> I think one for the opening and another for the closing session.
>>>>
>>>> Please send your suggestions and nominations asap.
>>>>
>>>> izumi
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Graciela Selaimen
>> Instituto Nupef
>> www.nupef.org.br
>> www.politics.org.br
>> www.rets.org.br
>> www.tiwa.org.br
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *Andrés Piazza*
> www.andrespiazza.com
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121002/250d2c96/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From williams.deirdre at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 14:22:24 2012
From: williams.deirdre at gmail.com (Deirdre Williams)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 14:22:24 -0400
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <CA+=oXBLVixTgGT1TUJHKLSXRv=WqgV2-nPnHuRbp5aNzfc45LA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com>
 <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br> <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br> <CAB6RXGY7OsAYGW-fYMB0iYphU1PmPDgX0=jQSyVKsQLrX8Z1sg@mail.gmail.com>
 <2B3A777C-D73F-47E8-938E-44B0EF9F8902@apc.org> <CA+=oXBLVixTgGT1TUJHKLSXRv=WqgV2-nPnHuRbp5aNzfc45LA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMz5XN7AoCWBJDcnDz9Qx8HA0ZH0KnNoUu1kAa2==oHyE8Ojtg@mail.gmail.com>

Izumi - you yourself.
Deirdre

On 2 October 2012 13:52, Ivar A. M. Hartmann <ivarhartmann at gmail.com> wrote:

> +1
> Ivar
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Valeria Betancourt <valeriab at apc.org>wrote:
>
>> + 1
>>
>> Valeria
>>
>> On 02/10/2012, at 12:32, Andrés Piazza wrote:
>>
>> +1
>>
>> 2012/10/2 Graciela Selaimen <graciela at nupef.org.br>
>>
>>> +1!
>>>
>>> best,
>>> Graciela
>>>
>>> Em 10/2/12 12:31 PM, Hartmut Richard Glaser escreveu:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Carlos Afonso from Brazil ....
>>>>
>>>> ==============================
>>>> On 02/10/12 11:45, Izumi AIZU wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear list,
>>>>>
>>>>> We need to select Civil Society speakers for the Baku Main session,
>>>>> I think one for the opening and another for the closing session.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please send your suggestions and nominations asap.
>>>>>
>>>>> izumi
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Graciela Selaimen
>>> Instituto Nupef
>>> www.nupef.org.br
>>> www.politics.org.br
>>> www.rets.org.br
>>> www.tiwa.org.br
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Andrés Piazza*
>> www.andrespiazza.com
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
“The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121002/acf4b5ed/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From fatimacambronero at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 14:32:21 2012
From: fatimacambronero at gmail.com (Fatima Cambronero)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 15:32:21 -0300
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <CAMz5XN7AoCWBJDcnDz9Qx8HA0ZH0KnNoUu1kAa2==oHyE8Ojtg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com>
	<506B08C9.90107@cgi.br>
	<506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br>
	<CAB6RXGY7OsAYGW-fYMB0iYphU1PmPDgX0=jQSyVKsQLrX8Z1sg@mail.gmail.com>
	<2B3A777C-D73F-47E8-938E-44B0EF9F8902@apc.org>
	<CA+=oXBLVixTgGT1TUJHKLSXRv=WqgV2-nPnHuRbp5aNzfc45LA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMz5XN7AoCWBJDcnDz9Qx8HA0ZH0KnNoUu1kAa2==oHyE8Ojtg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHY4F=wPjzJgyvCmg_RWEuwimgAdZSiKN3pFb_FhkK3W7+5j1Q@mail.gmail.com>

+1 for Carlos Afonso.

Fatima


2012/10/2 Deirdre Williams <williams.deirdre at gmail.com>

> Izumi - you yourself.
> Deirdre
>
>
> On 2 October 2012 13:52, Ivar A. M. Hartmann <ivarhartmann at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> +1
>> Ivar
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Valeria Betancourt <valeriab at apc.org>wrote:
>>
>>> + 1
>>>
>>> Valeria
>>>
>>> On 02/10/2012, at 12:32, Andrés Piazza wrote:
>>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>> 2012/10/2 Graciela Selaimen <graciela at nupef.org.br>
>>>
>>>> +1!
>>>>
>>>> best,
>>>> Graciela
>>>>
>>>> Em 10/2/12 12:31 PM, Hartmut Richard Glaser escreveu:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Carlos Afonso from Brazil ....
>>>>>
>>>>> ==============================
>>>>> On 02/10/12 11:45, Izumi AIZU wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear list,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We need to select Civil Society speakers for the Baku Main session,
>>>>>> I think one for the opening and another for the closing session.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please send your suggestions and nominations asap.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> izumi
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Graciela Selaimen
>>>> Instituto Nupef
>>>> www.nupef.org.br
>>>> www.politics.org.br
>>>> www.rets.org.br
>>>> www.tiwa.org.br
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>>
>>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>>
>>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Andrés Piazza*
>>> www.andrespiazza.com
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> “The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
> Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
*Fatima Cambronero*
Abogada-Argentina

Phone: +54 9351 5282 668
Twitter: @facambronero
Skype: fatima.cambronero

*Join the LACRALO/ICANN discussions:*
https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/lac-discuss-es

*Join the Diplo Internet Governance Community discussions:*
http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org/

*Join to the Internet Society (ISOC): *http://www.internetsociety.org/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121002/6328abf3/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From vanda at uol.com.br  Tue Oct  2 15:13:39 2012
From: vanda at uol.com.br (Vanda UOL)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 16:13:39 -0300
Subject: RES: [governance] Host website for the first Bulgarian IGF
 discussions
In-Reply-To: <506B0862.1070304@uninet.bg>
References: <CAC2SYrPUdnP3zA2H8Guevu-b_inHHpLNE80RP41PCaDdJ5FbpQ@mail.gmail.com> <506B0862.1070304@uninet.bg>
Message-ID: <022b01cda0d2$106f0520$314d0f60$@uol.com.br>

Thank you Yliya for sharing.
Success! 


Vanda Scartezini
Polo Consultores Associados 
IT Trend
Avenida Paulista 1159 cj 1004
01311-200 São Paulo,SP, Brasil
Tel + 5511 3266.6253
Mob + 5511 98181.1464
Dissemine esta idéia:
Digite o dominio ao inves do telefone. 
Domain dialing 
  www.siter.com  

 



-----Mensagem original-----
De: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] Em nome de Iliya Bazlyankov
Enviada em: terça-feira, 2 de outubro de 2012 12:30
Para: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
Assunto: [governance] Host website for the first Bulgarian IGF discussions

Dear Colleagues,

We are organizing the first Bulgarian IGF discussions on 16 November, together with the annual Domain Forum meeting.

The registration is now open at the host website (http://www.domainforum.bg), and the draft agenda is published at http://www.domainforum.bg/draft-agenda-igf/

You are more than welcome to join us in Sofia for the event.

Best regards,
Iliya Bazlyankov



-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From jumaropi at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  2 15:15:18 2012
From: jumaropi at yahoo.com (Juan Manuel Rojas)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 12:15:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <CAHY4F=wPjzJgyvCmg_RWEuwimgAdZSiKN3pFb_FhkK3W7+5j1Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com> <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br> <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br> <CAB6RXGY7OsAYGW-fYMB0iYphU1PmPDgX0=jQSyVKsQLrX8Z1sg@mail.gmail.com> <2B3A777C-D73F-47E8-938E-44B0EF9F8902@apc.org> <CA+=oXBLVixTgGT1TUJHKLSXRv=WqgV2-nPnHuRbp5aNzfc45LA@mail.gmail.com> <CAMz5XN7AoCWBJDcnDz9Qx8HA0ZH0KnNoUu1kAa2==oHyE8Ojtg@mail.gmail.com> <CAHY4F=wPjzJgyvCmg_RWEuwimgAdZSiKN3pFb_FhkK3W7+5j1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1349205318.1020.YahooMailNeo@web141103.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

+1 Carlos Afonso 

 
JUAN MANUEL ROJAS
Comunicador Social  
Presidente - AGEIA DENSI Colombia

Twitter: @JmanuRojas

Unete a LACRALO: 
https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/lac-discuss-es 







                                                


________________________________
 De: Fatima Cambronero <fatimacambronero at gmail.com>
Para: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Deirdre Williams <williams.deirdre at gmail.com> 
CC: iza at anr.org 
Enviado: Martes, 2 de octubre, 2012 1:32 P.M.
Asunto: Re: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
 

+1 for Carlos Afonso.

Fatima



2012/10/2 Deirdre Williams <williams.deirdre at gmail.com>

Izumi - you yourself.
>Deirdre
>
>
>
>On 2 October 2012 13:52, Ivar A. M. Hartmann <ivarhartmann at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>+1
>>Ivar
>>
>>
>>
>>On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Valeria Betancourt <valeriab at apc.org> wrote:
>>
>>+ 1
>>>
>>>Valeria
>>>
>>>
>>>On 02/10/2012, at 12:32, Andrés Piazza wrote:
>>>
>>>+1
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>2012/10/2 Graciela Selaimen <graciela at nupef.org.br>
>>>>
>>>>+1!
>>>>>
>>>>>best,
>>>>>Graciela
>>>>>
>>>>>Em 10/2/12 12:31 PM, Hartmut Richard Glaser escreveu:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Carlos Afonso from Brazil ....
>>>>>>
>>>>>>==============================
>>>>>>On 02/10/12 11:45, Izumi AIZU wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Dear list,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>We need to select Civil Society speakers for the Baku Main session,
>>>>>>>I think one for the opening and another for the closing session.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Please send your suggestions and nominations asap.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>izumi
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>-- 
>>>>>Graciela Selaimen
>>>>>Instituto Nupef
>>>>>www.nupef.org.br
>>>>>www.politics.org.br
>>>>>www.rets.org.br
>>>>>www.tiwa.org.br
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>____________________________________________________________
>>>>>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>>>>To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>>>
>>>>>For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>>>>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>>>
>>>>>Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-- 
>>>>Andrés Piazza
>>>>www.andrespiazza.com
>>>>____________________________________________________________
>>>>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>>    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>>>To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>>
>>>>For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>>    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>>>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>>
>>>>Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>____________________________________________________________
>>>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>>To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>>For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>>Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>>
>>
>>____________________________________________________________
>>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>>For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>>Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>
>
>
>-- 
>
>“The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
>
>____________________________________________________________
>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
>For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
>Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 

Fatima Cambronero
Abogada-Argentina

Phone: +54 9351 5282 668
Twitter: @facambronero
Skype: fatima.cambronero

Join the LACRALO/ICANN discussions: https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/lac-discuss-es  

Join the Diplo Internet Governance Community discussions: http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org/  

Join to the Internet Society (ISOC): http://www.internetsociety.org/



____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
    http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121002/1c1a6031/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From thiagotavares at safernet.org.br  Tue Oct  2 17:02:46 2012
From: thiagotavares at safernet.org.br (Thiago Tavares Nunes de Oliveira)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 18:02:46 -0300
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com> <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br> <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br>
Message-ID: <15177927-D3AA-48A1-9869-D3A9F9BE7E31@safernet.org.br>

+1 Carlos Afonso (CA)

all the best,
Thiago Tavares
SaferNet Brasil

Em 02/10/2012, às 14:20, Graciela Selaimen escreveu:

> +1!
> 
> best,
> Graciela
> 
> Em 10/2/12 12:31 PM, Hartmut Richard Glaser escreveu:
>> 
>> Carlos Afonso from Brazil ....
>> 
>> ==============================
>> On 02/10/12 11:45, Izumi AIZU wrote:
>>> Dear list,
>>> 
>>> We need to select Civil Society speakers for the Baku Main session,
>>> I think one for the opening and another for the closing session.
>>> 
>>> Please send your suggestions and nominations asap.
>>> 
>>> izumi
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Graciela Selaimen
> Instituto Nupef
> www.nupef.org.br
> www.politics.org.br
> www.rets.org.br
> www.tiwa.org.br
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo sistema de antivírus da
> SaferNet e acredita-se estar livre de perigo.
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


-- 
Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo sistema de antivírus da
SaferNet e acredita-se estar livre de perigo.


-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From karl at cavebear.com  Tue Oct  2 17:10:27 2012
From: karl at cavebear.com (Karl Auerbach)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 14:10:27 -0700
Subject: AW: [governance] Principles
In-Reply-To: <E7F950D1E0C75744892C09CBFA0EB3522CF843575A@ARTEMIS.pers.ad.uni-graz.at>
References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com> <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org> <CACAaNxhbB9GNvropAXac41J0vCeG7ofX9dRJrSLFKcjMpbhSbQ@mail.gmail.com> <CA+=oXBJVT+n9A9uKSeh5qu3ox+Qw99xSTci+s6bSXaYnWC1_gA@mail.gmail.com> <02350A3A-0235-4E7A-B1D0-5D6ED84AEE4C@safernet.org.br> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <506944F6.1090501@itforchange.net> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3C5@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <1025562875.8772.1349081476302.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f27> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3CE@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <04e201cd9fd4$93de6080$bb9b2180$@gmail.com> <5069A3AF.7060500@gmx.net>,<506AA0EB.5080003@gmail.com> <E7F950D1E0C75744892C09CBFA0EB3522CF843575A@ARTEMIS.pers.ad.uni-graz.at>
Message-ID: <506B5843.1060506@cavebear.com>

On 10/02/2012 02:00 AM, Kettemann, Matthias
(matthias.kettemann at uni-graz.at) wrote:

> @ Karl

>> I rather take a rather different position, which is that
>> stakeholderism is oligarchy and not democratic at all.

> Multistakholerdism means - in abstract - that all those who are
> touched by the normative outcomes of a normative process should have
> a say in the process. MS can be oligarchic if only some are heard
> (because of their position, wealth etc.). But it can be desigend in a
> way that avoids this dilemma.

There are problems with your formulation.

First is the assumption that the internet does not touch every person on 
this planet.  There may be a few that are so detached from at least 
one-level indirect effect, but vanishingly few.  And that number is 
decreasing every day.  We should assume that the number not affected by 
the internet is essentially zero.

Second is the problem that someone must be the god - or king - who gets 
to measure the degree of "touched by the normative outcomes of a 
normative process" - in other words, a Chamberlain or gatekeeper who 
gets to say who gets to participate and who does not.  Historically that 
role has proven to be one of both great power for shaping and 
controlling the outcome, and usually making a nice profit.

When one adopts an exclusionary process, of which stakeholderism is a 
prime example, one should expect manipulation and exclusion to occur.

The world is not a nice halcyon place where everyone places nice late 
1960's flower-power games, even though that seems to be the mental model 
of much of what has passed to date for "Internet Governance".

Rather the world is a place of power politics.  It is a place for 
Machiavelli ("The Prince") rather than Heinlein ("Stranger In A Strange 
Land".)

   Once one begins to deny the role of democracy - to deny one person, 
one vote, whether representative or direct - then the system will 
quickly be captured by those groups that, because they are 
organizational rather than flesh-and-blood, will be have the resources 
and time to be ever vigilant, ever present, and very effective at 
superseding the popular, democratic point of view.  One has only to look 
to the degree to which ICANN has been captured by those it is purported 
to regulate to see how this can happen.

Now, there is value in the opinion and expertise of "stakeholders". 
There is no reason to bar them from presenting opinions and, if they can 
be trusted to be objective, information.  Here in the US that takes the 
form of "lobbying" and it is a huge industry that no-one can say is 
incapable of having a very strong influence.

But we don't give stakeholder lobbyists the right to vote.  But that is 
what people are suggesting via the use of "stakeholder" in internet 
governance.

	--karl--








-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From rguerra at privaterra.org  Tue Oct  2 17:14:31 2012
From: rguerra at privaterra.org (Robert Guerra)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 17:14:31 -0400
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com> <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br> <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br>
Message-ID: <0CB09DB8-E475-4EEB-B1DB-84F1F921071E@privaterra.org>

Colleagues,


I would like to nominate Katy Pearce as one of the Civil Society experts for the Baku main session.

Katy is an academic expert who knows the Azerbaijan and the region very well. She knows the country and its dynamics. She's been an excellent resource for those of us who have been wanting to better know and understand Azerbaijan in the lead up to the IGF.

I recommend her without reservation.Details on her research and work is available at her website:

http://www.katypearce.net/


regards

Robert
--
R. Guerra
Phone/Cell: +1 202-905-2081
Twitter: twitter.com/netfreedom 
Email: rguerra at privaterra.org



On 02/10/12 11:45, Izumi AIZU wrote:
> Dear list,
> 
> We need to select Civil Society speakers for the Baku Main session,
> I think one for the opening and another for the closing session.
> 
> Please send your suggestions and nominations asap.
> 
> izumi
> 



-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From karl at cavebear.com  Tue Oct  2 17:24:55 2012
From: karl at cavebear.com (Karl Auerbach)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 14:24:55 -0700
Subject: [governance] Principles
In-Reply-To: <8CF6E38BA1CF2C1-2348-75191@webmail-d167.sysops.aol.com>
References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com> <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org> <CACAaNxhbB9GNvropAXac41J0vCeG7ofX9dRJrSLFKcjMpbhSbQ@mail.gmail.com> <CA+=oXBJVT+n9A9uKSeh5qu3ox+Qw99xSTci+s6bSXaYnWC1_gA@mail.gmail.com> <02350A3A-0235-4E7A-B1D0-5D6ED84AEE4C@safernet.org.br> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <506944F6.1090501@itforchange.net> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3C5@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <1025562875.8772.1349081476302.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f27> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3CE@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <04e201cd9fd4$93de6080$bb9b2180$@gmail.com>	<5069A3AF.7060500@gmx.net> <005c01cd9fe2$30ca9320$925fb960$@gmail.com> <4867EA09-80AD-40ED-9487-56E0ED02C9F3@post.harvard.edu>,<20121001222306.31a0349c@quill.bollow.ch> <E7F950D1E0C75744892C09CBFA0EB3522CF8435755@ARTEMIS.pers.ad.uni-graz.at> <6819FD91-3470-43FD-AA07-1A7D1268C8FA@post.harvard.edu> <8CF6E38BA1CF2C1-2348-75191@webmail-d167.sysops.aol.com
 >
Message-ID: <506B5BA7.2030005@cavebear.com>

On 10/01/2012 03:10 PM, Koven Ronald wrote:

> ... posited on the notion that the Internet has
> revoked the 2,500 previous years of political philosophy and history.

More like about 370 years - since the Treaty of Westphalia.

The truth is that that world of geograhic-bounded nation-states *is* 
eroding; the edges of nation-states are getting fuzzy, especially since 
1945 with the rise of nation-agile multinational corporations and since 
the mid 1990's with the rise of the internet and world wide web.

The granules of power that are eroding from the edges of nation-states 
are not disappearing, they are flowing into the hands of either private 
actors or bodies of internet governance.

Those granules represent plenary, often non-reviewable, authority over 
matters affecting the internet and its users.

When I was on the Board of Directors of ICANN I had fun tweeking the 
nose of a US Senator when I informed him of the indisputable fact that 
I, in conjunction with about 10 other Directors, could pass a rule over 
internet use of trademarks and names that would supersede and trump 
anything that he, as a mere United States Senator, could enact.

He got angry - much in the way we see the fear and anger of nation 
states bubbling over in attempts to re-assert and re-insert national 
governments into these new bodies of governance.

We are building internet governance on models that are more from the era 
of flower-power and high-hopes rather than on the 18th century models 
that recognize the aggregation of unchecked power and try to constrain 
that aggregation, models that form the basis of many national 
constitutions of today.

We have forgotten history.

Several of us have proposed various models of internet governance - and 
these models have all emphasized small, extremely limited, and clearly 
separated bodies, with extremely limited, if any, discretionary powers, 
each wrapped around exactly one highly and clearly defined internet 
governance issue.

That model of concise, tightly shrink-wrapped, and almost clerical 
bodies of governance would help eliminate the opportunity for a body to 
dance among the issues to leverage one issue against another to the tune 
played by whatever group of stakeholders has captured that body.  We saw 
that happen with ICANN when it staved off insolvency some years ago by 
making an implicit pact with the address registries so that ICANN could 
have the cash to to survive and assert its role over domain names.

	--karl--



-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 17:35:43 2012
From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 09:35:43 +1200
Subject: [governance] Social Media and Star Wars #May the force be with you
Message-ID: <CAJwbTiDS86Exppt9eQG-yCAK-BtDfHfgyEH_GMVjj4Lmqq8wCQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear All,

I read this with much interest today.This was the US Under Secretary for
Public Diplomacy and Public Affairs, Tara Sonenshine's speech.

Cheers,
Sala

*Message Starts*

Remarks for Pacific Council on International Policy

Remarks
Tara Sonenshine
Under Secretary for Public Diplomacy and Public Affairs
As Prepared for Delivery
Los Angeles, CA
October 2, 2012

------------------------------

Thank you Ernie, for that introduction. And my special thanks to the
Pacific Council for hosting me, and the Southern California Gas Company for
sponsoring the luncheon.

Until three weeks ago, I was going to talk to you about social media. The
subtitle to that was “The Arab Spring and Beyond.” But developments since
then have conspired to make us all expand our understandings of the
post-Arab Spring.

I mention this to show you how quickly things can change around the world –
in large part because of social media. In fact, I would go so far as to
say, social media has evolved into the most powerful, galvanizing catalyst
of our time – for better and for worse. It is arguably as significant an
event in our shared human history as the industrial revolution.

Let’s be clear: Social media is a neutral entity. It is the human use of it
that matters. It was humans interacting with – or responding to – social
media, that contributed significantly to the Arab Spring, and also to the
violent protests we saw across the region in the past weeks.

To be sure there were other factors: rampant unemployment among young
people; autocratic regimes exploiting their citizens and depriving them of
any political voice; religious animosity; and so forth. But social media
was certainly a leveraging force.

In the first instance, we saw social media as a catalyst for largely
positive change. In Tunisia, a fruit seller immolated himself to protest
the loss of his dignity. Thanks to social media that desperate act led to a
revolution that galvanized the region – and set course for a long and bumpy
road towards democratization.

In the second instance, in the past weeks, we’ve seen violence in many
countries – from Khartoum to Cairo, Tunis, and Benghazi – directed at our
diplomatic Missions and personnel. Many protestors were outraged by a
reprehensible video uploaded here in America. As you know, the United
States Government had nothing to do with the video, and soundly condemned
its message and content.

Many in the region did not understand the freedom of expression that we
have here, and responded with outrage. But, I should note, many more did
not take to the streets. Relatively small crowds in a handful of countries
drew the headlines, rather than the “silent majorities” who stayed home.

Since we are in LA, let me use a movie metaphor – and I don’t think it’s so
off base. Social media is like the Force in “Star Wars.” At almost every
point of the way, the prospect of good or bad looms large. It all depends
on the humans using it. In the case of the Arab Spring, social media was –
largely – a force of good. In the latter case, it went to the dark side.

Today, I want to talk about why it’s so important to use it as a force for
good – and what the State Department is doing to make that happen.

First, let me share a few facts about social media.

Every second, one hour of video is uploaded to YouTube. Every two hours,
that total becomes nine months’ worth. By the end of every single day, the
equivalent of a decade is uploaded every day.

Now listen to this: Every 10 days, a whole century is uploaded.

I am going to quote from an article written by James K. Glassman – one of
my predecessors as Under Secretary for Public Diplomacy. In the past four
years, the number of Facebook accounts worldwide has increased sevenfold –
and there has been significant growth in countries critical to U.S.
security.

In Egypt, there were 800,000 Facebook accounts in mid-2008; today, there
are 12 million. In Pakistan, the increase has gone from 250,000 to 7
million; in Turkey, from 3 million to 31 million. Twitter, which barely
existed in 2008, is growing even faster.

These quantum leaps in connection technologies are changing, literally,
everything. People are consuming and producing information in profoundly
different ways. Political and cultural movements have become transnational.
In short, power is decentralizing. More people are playing a role in
international relations than ever.

Secretary Clinton has called upon all of us to adopt and institutionalize
21st Century Statecraft, so we can remain at the forefront of the world’s
most vibrant conversations. By listening and responding through social
media, we can create a vibrant two-way dialogue with the world in ways we
never have before.

But there are challenges. As we have seen, the effect of social media on
human nature – and vice versa – has serious consequences.

In these Internet-influenced times, we are in the business of fighting for
attention – and responding ever more quickly. In the case of Twitter, we
have to do it all in the space of 140 characters [or less.] Imagine how
many things can go wrong with up to seven billion global citizens – all
thumb-texting from the hip. It boggles the mind.

As a government and, frankly, as everyday citizens – we have to fight rumor
with facts, meet tyrannical outbursts with calm arguments about freedom,
and in general, speak to the best in all people. But in the 21st century,
no one is waiting for us to play catch up. We have to respond in real time,
with frequency, at speed – and get it right.

In the case of Libya and its aftermath, we are working to do just that. We
are engaging audiences everywhere about our staunch belief in freedom of
expression – and our unbreakable position on religious tolerance. In fact,
Secretary Clinton just released an important video on Youtube expressing
those ideas. And if I can, I’d like to share the link with everyone.

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X5TP4fQos8&feature=youtu.be ]

As President Obama says on that video: in the United States, we see no
contradiction between our strong religious beliefs and our defense of those
who would utter the worst blasphemies against them.

The point is: we need to be out there at the reactive end – presenting our
counter argument to the false, the hateful and the cynical. We do that
through our Center for Strategic Counter Terrorism Communications, where we
actively engage online with targeted groups where not only jihadists – but
the more persuadable audiences are present.

When we enter that digital space and challenge their messages, we force the
uncommitted to pay attention to a different point of view.

We engage proactively, with audiences of young people, women and girls, and
other underserved communities to reinforce their most positive aspirations.
We also work to redirect them from voices that would convert their
frustrations as well as hopes and dreams for negative, extremist purposes.

Recently, I wrote a blog posting on our State Department website. I spoke
about the great social media toolbox that we use in so many ways to reach
out.

U.S. Ambassadors are introducing themselves to citizens through video
messages broadcast online and via local media. They are holding web chats
with the public. And it has become practically unthinkable for them not to
have a Twitter account.

In fact Ambassador Roos’ Twitter feeds during the earthquake disaster in
Japan became one of the most widely used information resources during that
period. And in Madagascar, when rumors were mounting that the former
President had hidden himself in our embassy after he was deposed, our
Embassy’s Twitter feed helped to quash them – and reduce tensions.

We are even connecting with foreign publics in non-permissive environments,
such as Cuba or Iran, through our virtual embassies and SMS text campaigns

The traditional State Department briefing podium is not gone. In fact, it
matters more than ever – and we are giving it new amplification power.

Our State Department social media accounts and those of our embassies
disseminate press briefings, speeches, media notes, videos, and online
materials everywhere.

We are conducting virtual press conferences with journalists on every
continent through our "LiveAtState" program.

We have U.S. International Media Hubs working across the world to
communicate our messages and help explain U.S. policy.

Beyond the podium, we recognize that speaking with people, and listening to
them, is an integral part of the policy process. That is the essence of
public diplomacy.

Just three months ago, we had 10 million followers on our various Facebook
pages. We now have 15 million, including the Our Planet page – and pages in
Arabic, Persian, Russian, Spanish, and French. Our Embassy in Pakistan has
over 500,000 Facebook fans, and the Mission uses this platform as part of
its outreach strategy to amplify messages.

So you can see how fast we are growing.

We reach out to hundreds of thousands of people every single day through
exchange programs, roundtables, and outreach to religious scholars and NGO
leaders, businesspeople and entrepreneurs, students and educational
advisors.

Many people do not realize this, but we have more than 800 “American
Spaces” around the world. These spaces – whether they are corners in
libraries or rooms at binational centers – give foreign citizens the chance
to learn English.

They can meet and interact with American subject-matter experts. They can
find information on study abroad opportunities in the U.S.

All of this can be particularly effective in countries where Internet
access is limited or restricted.

And here in the United States, we hold discussions with students across the
United States through our Foreign Policy Classrooms program.

The result of these efforts is a more informed, more engaged, and global
citizenry, which is vital to the long-terms interests of the United States
from the vantage point of economic prosperity and security.

In short, public diplomacy goes on, despite all the vicissitudes of global
events. We are communicating and engaging every second of every day. As the
pioneer of public diplomacy Edward R. Murrow, once said, we are working to
close that crucial link: the last three feet.

In that spirit – a two-way conversation – I am anxious to hear from you. So
let me sum up what I have said. Social media is a neutral tool. It is a
challenge and an opportunity. If left to irresponsible and cynical voices,
it can create divisions. If used in positive ways, it can bring people
together.

We know which side of that divide we stand on – and we are working every
day to make sure we push that positive agenda.

Let me also say this: government is not the only agent in this. Far from
it. It is people like you: students, global citizens, people of conscience,
who can share positive information and create positive networks.

By working together and using social media as a tool of positive
communication, we can win the battle for the best in humanity.

Right now, and in the near future, I look forward to hearing from all of
you about the ways we can continue to do that.

Thank you.


*The Office of Website Management, Bureau of Public Affairs, manages this
site as a portal for information from the U.S. State Department.
External links to other Internet sites should not be construed as an
endorsement of the views or privacy policies contained therein.*

-- 
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
P.O. Box 17862
Suva
Fiji

Twitter: @SalanietaT
Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121003/dfa2dc7e/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From williams.deirdre at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 17:47:39 2012
From: williams.deirdre at gmail.com (Deirdre Williams)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 17:47:39 -0400
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <0CB09DB8-E475-4EEB-B1DB-84F1F921071E@privaterra.org>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com>
 <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br> <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br> <0CB09DB8-E475-4EEB-B1DB-84F1F921071E@privaterra.org>
Message-ID: <CAMz5XN5LLUt3DPT+v597EqjDxjfCcYF=WVeHEfMEmZs17P7QaA@mail.gmail.com>

Reviewing the suggestions up to now it seems important that we should
observe the two Gs - Gender and Geography. Robert suggests someone who is
an expert ON Azerbaijan, but considering the precedent set last year in
Nairobi would it be possible to choose someone FROM Azerbaijan, or at least
from that part of the world?
Deirdre

On 2 October 2012 17:14, Robert Guerra <rguerra at privaterra.org> wrote:

> Colleagues,
>
>
> I would like to nominate Katy Pearce as one of the Civil Society experts
> for the Baku main session.
>
> Katy is an academic expert who knows the Azerbaijan and the region very
> well. She knows the country and its dynamics. She's been an excellent
> resource for those of us who have been wanting to better know and
> understand Azerbaijan in the lead up to the IGF.
>
> I recommend her without reservation.Details on her research and work is
> available at her website:
>
> http://www.katypearce.net/
>
>
> regards
>
> Robert
> --
> R. Guerra
> Phone/Cell: +1 202-905-2081
> Twitter: twitter.com/netfreedom
> Email: rguerra at privaterra.org
>
>
>
> On 02/10/12 11:45, Izumi AIZU wrote:
> > Dear list,
> >
> > We need to select Civil Society speakers for the Baku Main session,
> > I think one for the opening and another for the closing session.
> >
> > Please send your suggestions and nominations asap.
> >
> > izumi
> >
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
“The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121002/ed9b7472/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From katycarvt at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 17:52:44 2012
From: katycarvt at gmail.com (Katy P)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 14:52:44 -0700
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <CAMz5XN5LLUt3DPT+v597EqjDxjfCcYF=WVeHEfMEmZs17P7QaA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com>
	<506B08C9.90107@cgi.br>
	<506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br>
	<0CB09DB8-E475-4EEB-B1DB-84F1F921071E@privaterra.org>
	<CAMz5XN5LLUt3DPT+v597EqjDxjfCcYF=WVeHEfMEmZs17P7QaA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADBMUMFAjbM6p5fAashPrS3wi6QT18gS59XpHb=pg7XiMkEsbA@mail.gmail.com>

I can think of a number of good speakers from Azerbaijan but it is
also important that we can assure their safety.

How widely publicized will this be?
Will this be a focal point of the event?
What sort of topics are you all interested in?

On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 2:47 PM, Deirdre Williams
<williams.deirdre at gmail.com> wrote:
> Reviewing the suggestions up to now it seems important that we should
> observe the two Gs - Gender and Geography. Robert suggests someone who is an
> expert ON Azerbaijan, but considering the precedent set last year in Nairobi
> would it be possible to choose someone FROM Azerbaijan, or at least from
> that part of the world?
> Deirdre
>
> On 2 October 2012 17:14, Robert Guerra <rguerra at privaterra.org> wrote:
>>
>> Colleagues,
>>
>>
>> I would like to nominate Katy Pearce as one of the Civil Society experts
>> for the Baku main session.
>>
>> Katy is an academic expert who knows the Azerbaijan and the region very
>> well. She knows the country and its dynamics. She's been an excellent
>> resource for those of us who have been wanting to better know and understand
>> Azerbaijan in the lead up to the IGF.
>>
>> I recommend her without reservation.Details on her research and work is
>> available at her website:
>>
>> http://www.katypearce.net/
>>
>>
>> regards
>>
>> Robert
>> --
>> R. Guerra
>> Phone/Cell: +1 202-905-2081
>> Twitter: twitter.com/netfreedom
>> Email: rguerra at privaterra.org
>>
>>
>>
>> On 02/10/12 11:45, Izumi AIZU wrote:
>> > Dear list,
>> >
>> > We need to select Civil Society speakers for the Baku Main session,
>> > I think one for the opening and another for the closing session.
>> >
>> > Please send your suggestions and nominations asap.
>> >
>> > izumi
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>
>
>
> --
> “The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
> Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>

-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From julian at colnodo.apc.org  Tue Oct  2 17:56:21 2012
From: julian at colnodo.apc.org (Julian Casasbuenas G.)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 16:56:21 -0500
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <CAB6RXGY7OsAYGW-fYMB0iYphU1PmPDgX0=jQSyVKsQLrX8Z1sg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com> <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br> <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br> <CAB6RXGY7OsAYGW-fYMB0iYphU1PmPDgX0=jQSyVKsQLrX8Z1sg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <506B6305.9010002@colnodo.apc.org>

+1

El 02/10/12 12:32, Andrés Piazza escribió:
> +1
>
> 2012/10/2 Graciela Selaimen <graciela at nupef.org.br
> <mailto:graciela at nupef.org.br>>
>
>     +1!
>
>     best,
>     Graciela
>
>     Em 10/2/12 12:31 PM, Hartmut Richard Glaser escreveu:
>
>
>         Carlos Afonso from Brazil ....
>
>         ==============================
>         On 02/10/12 11:45, Izumi AIZU wrote:
>
>             Dear list,
>
>             We need to select Civil Society speakers for the Baku Main
>             session,
>             I think one for the opening and another for the closing
>             session.
>
>             Please send your suggestions and nominations asap.
>
>             izumi
>
>
>
>
>     -- 
>     Graciela Selaimen
>     Instituto Nupef
>     www.nupef.org.br <http://www.nupef.org.br>
>     www.politics.org.br <http://www.politics.org.br>
>     www.rets.org.br <http://www.rets.org.br>
>     www.tiwa.org.br <http://www.tiwa.org.br>
>
>
>
>     ____________________________________________________________
>     You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>          governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>     <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
>     To be removed from the list, visit:
>          http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
>     For all other list information and functions, see:
>          http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>     To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>          http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
>     Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> *Andrés Piazza*
> www.andrespiazza.com <http://www.andrespiazza.com>

-- 

Julian Casasbuenas G.
Director Colnodo
Diagonal 40A (Antigua Av. 39) No. 14-75, Bogota, Colombia
Tel: 57-1-2324246, Cel. 57-315-3339099 Fax: 57-1-3380264
Twitter @jcasasbuenas
www.colnodo.apc.org - Uso Estratégico de Internet para el Desarrollo
Miembro de la Asociacion para el Progreso de las Comunicaciones -APC-
www.apc.org



-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121002/f40b1970/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From pouzin at well.com  Tue Oct  2 17:58:51 2012
From: pouzin at well.com (Louis Pouzin (well))
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 23:58:51 +0200
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <15177927-D3AA-48A1-9869-D3A9F9BE7E31@safernet.org.br>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com>
 <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br> <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br> <15177927-D3AA-48A1-9869-D3A9F9BE7E31@safernet.org.br>
Message-ID: <CA+EjHYpgJKTLqmDvc4wFGqFuXEFvdw+HjXczhDKaW1JZBKV4Cw@mail.gmail.com>

+1 for Carlos Afonso (CA)
Louis
- - -

On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 11:02 PM, Thiago Tavares Nunes de Oliveira <
thiagotavares at safernet.org.br> wrote:

> +1 Carlos Afonso (CA)
>
> all the best,
> Thiago Tavares
> SaferNet Brasil
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121002/e02cff59/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From ian.peter at ianpeter.com  Tue Oct  2 18:10:10 2012
From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 08:10:10 +1000
Subject: [governance] The Bicycle-Powered Internet?
In-Reply-To: <CABOQGyAZCgHfqWkmf1e-p+52U3+uGHsksHX9X6tpur-5EZSSjA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CC91A362.295F3%ian.peter@ianpeter.com>

Hi Riaz,

The subject is serious, but the article is silly in several respects.

Firstly, most estimates put Internet power usage at about 2% of global
totals. I have seen some higher figures, but none suggesting more than 10%.
So there are some significant other targets out there.

But as regards Internet itself ­ no, we don¹t need to all hop on bikes to
have a more energy-neutral Internet. In fact a zero carbon emission Internet
is possible ­ see writings of Bill St Arnaud and others on this.

Solar is useful, whatever the article says. As is wind. Even if relocation
of data centres near renewable energy centres only reduces power consumption
by 50%, that¹s a significant saving both ecologically and economically. So
very do-able. And I don¹t think we need to be too clever in an Internet on
which the sun never sets to redirect some traffic to areas wherever the sun
Is shining at that point of time to reduce carbon emissions.

Then there is hydro and hydrothermal. There is no reason not to relocate all
data centres in the world to Iceland to take advantage of their resources.
(I think I suggested this at IGF Rio)

So there is lots we can (and should) do ­ we don¹t have to stop using the
Internet or download smaller files to make significant progress here.

Ian Peter



From: Riaz K Tayob <riaz.tayob at gmail.com>
Reply-To: <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>, Riaz K Tayob
<riaz.tayob at gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 16:17:24 +0300
To: <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
Subject: [governance] The Bicycle-Powered Internet?


  
 
 
   

http://www.greens.org/s-r/59/59-06.html
Eat, Sleep, Click: The Bicycle-Powered Internet

by Jane Anne Morris

Save a tree, bank online. Subscribe online, reduce your carbon footprint.
Listen to music online, watch movies online, read books online. No mess, no
fuss. Google Inc. has photovoltaic (PV) solar panels on its headquarters.
With all that footprint-lightening, you may soon be down to no ecological
footprint at all, right?

Since everyone wants the Internet to have a gentle footprint and not be
"evil," we should power it with green electricity. Start with a bicycle
generator and a server. Here are some back-of-the-envelope figures.

All the stuff on the Internet, or in the "cloud," is kept aloft by computers
called servers (plus routers and so on). An average server draws 400
watts/hour, half of that for cooling (fairly typical), and 3500
kilowatt-hours (kWh) per year, [1] because it never shuts down.

A healthy biker can produce a constant 100 watts/hour on a bicycle
generator, a generous estimate. Four generator bikes at 100 watts/hour
apiece would power a server. Alas, that single server can't accomplish much
by itself. Various techies have estimated that a single online search
activates between 1000 and 20,000 servers, often located all over the world.

Numerous servers are housed together in places called server farms or data
centers. To power a modest-sized data center (50,000 servers) by bicycle
power would require almost a million pedalers and an area equivalent to 347
football fields. [2] Data centers can be as small as closets at the back of
a business, or as large as several football fields and use as much
electricity as small cities. They run 24/7/365, and tend to have multipl
redundant backup systems, so no one has to wait 10 seconds to learn from a
web site if it's raining outside.

What finally matters is not this or that server or data center, but the
overall Internet electricity use. How much bicycle power would it take to
run the Internet? Later we can figure out how to landscape the facility, and
decide where to put the snack bars and port-a-potties.

The EPA's conservative and dated number for 2006 Internet electricity use
within the US alone is 60 billion kWh. Getting that much electricity from
the setup described above would require 600 million bike generators.
Assuming 6-hour pedaling shifts, that would take 2.4 billion pedalers. Think
of the stimulus to the global economy: pedaling jobs for the entire
populations of the US (305 million), Canada (33 million), Mexico (110
million), South America (382 million), India (1.5 billion), and Japan (127
million).

Five years later, that number has doubled (at least). It is widely claimed
that in 2010 the Internet used 3% of US electricity (3884 billion kWh),
which is 117 billion kWh. So, we're now talking about 1.2 billion bike
generators and 4.8 billion pedalers.

In 2007, an independent outsider who is not on the dole of the IT industry
calculated that US Internet energy use was around 350 billion kWh annually,
approximately six times the EPA's 2006 estimate, [3] and three times the
conservative 2010 estimate used above. I will use the lower numbers, but
actual Internet electricity use may be much higher.

What about worldwide Internet electricity use? Available 2010 estimates‹200
billion kWh [4] ‹ are probably conservative. Whatâat's that in bicycles?

Using the same assumptions as before, that worldwide Internet could be
powered by a mere two billion bike generators, with 8 billion people
pedaling. (Current world (over)population is 7 billion.) If you placed that
many bicycles end-to-end, they would reach far enough for three round trips
to the moon, and then a trip back up.

Who would want to design a bicycle-generator system to power the Internet?
Someone who wanted to imagine a human-scale equivalent for how much energy
the Internet already sucks up. What about other "renewable" energy sources?

Solar and wind-powered Internet

At the biggest, most successful photovoltaic projects in the world, the rule
of thumb is that 10 acres of panels produces a megawatt of capacity (as
would 10,000 bicycle generators). A square mile (640 acres) could provide 64
MW. Each megawatt might yield 1.5 million kWh/year, so the annual kWh from a
square mile of good solar would be 96 million.

Generating an annual 117 billion kWh (2010 US Internet use) with solar would
require at least 1220 square miles of PV panels, and 78,000 MW. [5] For the
200 billion kWh number for world Internet use, it would take 2081 square
miles (that's Delaware) and 133,200 MW.

What about a wind-powered Internet? Experience in the wind turbine industry
(and again in the choicest spots), has shown that it's good to get 20 MW of
capacity per square mile. Three million kWh a year from each megawatt of
capacity is also optimistic.

Using wind turbines to get that 117 billion kWh for 2010 US Internet
electricity use would require 1950 square miles. [6] The 200 billion kWh for
2010 world Internet use would require 3300 square miles. Most wind power
sites are less productive than the sites from which these numbers were
derived. 


It's not appropriate to compare solar and wind directly to conventional
power plants. Except for maintenance and accidents, coal and nuke plants
operate 24/7, though demand drops at night. In contrast, solar is always
down at night, and wind is variable, exactly what data centers can't be.

With solar, more than half the electricity would have to be stored for use
when little or no power is generated. The huge batteries necessary for
storing this much power look like a cross between upturned railroad freight
cars and electric substations. They require space, maintenance, and cooling.
Every time energy is converted from one form to another (like rotating
energy to electrical energy to heat energy, or electricity into batteries
and then out again) energy is lost. That slippage increases the initial kWh
necessary, but I have not factored that in.

Also omitted in calculations here are the power lines, substations,
maintenance roads, other support facilities, and ladders and buckets of
ammonia water to clean PV panels. Not to mention the fact that most areas
don't get nearly as much sun as the prize spots already selected for large
solar arrays. I'm also not considering the resources needed to manufacture,
transport, and maintain the PV panels. Similar considerations apply to wind
power.

Solar and wind have different advantages. Fewer acres of solar than wind are
required for each MW of capacity (10 versus 32), but for each MW capacity of
wind, you get more kWh/year (3 million as compared to 1.5 million). That is
because you are never, ever, going to average more than 12 hours daily of
solar. However, you might average more than that for wind, depending on
location and circumstances.

Megawhat?
A solar panel rated at one kilowatt of capacity will produce one
kilowatt-hour of energy if the sun shines on it steadily for an hour. Terms
like megawatt, kilowatt, and watt express power or capacity, while
megawatt-hour, kilowatt-hour, and watt-hour measure energy. A kilowatt is a
thousand watts; a megawatt is a million watts or a thousand kilowatts.

At the scale necessary to power data centers, solar, wind, and even bicycle
power involve considerable habitat loss. Bicycle space to power the 2010 US
Internet would be about 4304 square miles (about the size of the
Everglades). For the 2010 world Internet, about the combined area of
Delaware and Connecticut. When chunks of ecosystem are shoveled into
industrialism's mill, Gaia is diminished. Acres sacrificed to solar arrays,
wind farms, power line rights of way, or thousands of bicycle generator pads
destroy habitat no less than those given over to GMO crops, cooling ponds,
interstate highways, and parking lots.

Energy-intensive, thy name is Internet

How can the Internet use so much electricity? Suppose you have an awesome
video of your cat at a laptop using her little cat feet to scroll through
online celebrity cats in fetching poses. (Click for full screen.) It's
stored in your email account, and you have a copy on your laptop and/or
handheld. Your email is backed up by the company that offers it, and you
have backup service for your laptop, so that's more Internet storage space
on servers somewhere; then the back-up companies back up their back-ups. You
send the cat video to 50 people. Some store it in their emails; some
download it and have it backed up on their own online backup systems; some
send it out to a few other people; and some do all three. How many places
can we find the cat? It's a hall of mirrors, a grain of wheat doubling on
each square of a chessboard. All of it eats kilowatt-hours. How much
fracking is that cat porn worth to you?

All online content is not born equal. It takes very little electricity to
support text, even italics. Graphics such as photos and drawings are much
more energy-intensive. Music exceeds even graphics, and video (bouncing
bunnies, or time-lapse wrinkle cream results) is the greediest of all.

Online action is hosted and processed in massive data centers that use up to
100 or even 200 MW of demand; data center operators are not often eager to
release this information. Chicago's Lakeside Technology Center (a data
center) reportedly draws 100 MW, a higher electric demand than any other
Commonwealth Edison customer except O'Hare airport. A quick check reveals
what a "renewable" electricity supply would look like for a facility like
this. With bike generators: over a million generators, over four million
pedalers, and almost half a million acres, which is 757 square miles (almost
three times the size of Chicago). Probably not available anywhere near the
Loop. Using solar panels: 2917 acres (2210 football fields), not counting
battery space, which is also probably not in the Chicago zoning plan. Using
wind in the "windy city": 9347 acres (or 7081 football fields), again not
counting battery space.

As Alex Roslin of the Montreal Gazette put it, if the Internet were a
country, it would be the fifth biggest power consumer, ahead of India &
Germany. [7]

Who is paying for this?

Tax breaks and other subsidies are common for data centers. Even
modest-sized ones often reap government subsidies for drawing huge amounts
of electricity and providing fewer jobs per buck, or per kWh, than almost
any other kind of facility.

For instance, in 2007 a Google Inc. data center got tax breaks on utility
bills, plus a property tax exemption. Iowa's own web site describes the tax
exemption as including "cooling systems, cooling towers, and other
temperature control infrastructure.... also exempt from property tax are all
power infrastructure for transformation, distribution, or management of
electricity used for the maintenance and operation of the web search portal,
including but not limited to exterior dedicated business owned substations,
back-up power generation systems, battery systems, and related
infrastructure; and racking systems, cabling, and trays, which are necessary
for the maintenance and operation of the web search portal."

Iowa even calculated its expected tax losses: $3.6 million in 2009, $12.7
million in 2010, $22 million in 2011, and $32.7 million in 2012. The
corporation got a similar deal in North Carolina, where estimates of tax
losses to the state were approximately $97 million over 30 years.

Lack of enforcement of environmental and occupational safety laws across the
board is an often-overlooked form of subsidy available to large
corporations, including data centers. This includes the cradle-to-grave
production, processing, transport, and use of nuclear and fossil fuels, as
well as the toxic waste and byproducts of same. Companies burn through
energy and resources far more cheaply than would be possible if laws "on the
books" were enforced.

Finally, there are those bargain-basement electricity bills. Data center
electricity rates are as low as 3­4¢/kWh, while residential customers pay
much higher rates: easily 15, 20, 25¢/kWh, and even steeper when charges for
distribution and other fees are included. [8]

The public is massively subsidizing data centers, the Internet, and the
profits of IT corporations. Yet, many corporations with huge data centers
are not eager to advertise their locations, and use third parties to
negotiate their deals. Some go to great lengths to hide their electricity
use. In 2007, for example, at Google Inc.'s urging, Oklahoma rewrote its
open records law to allow data center owners to conceal from the public the
amount of electricity used.

If inefficiency is not the problem, efficiency is not the solution

When I raise the issue of the massive electricity use of all things
Internet, everyone tells me how efficient IT is becoming.

The idea that efficiency reduces consumption is at best debatable, and at
worst a public relations scam. As Don Fitz wrote in "Why Energy Efficiency
Isn't Reducing Consumption" (Synthesis/Regeneration 50:30, 2009), over a
century and a half of research on the relationship between efficiency and
consumption of a resource has marshaled considerable evidence that the
opposite is true. Since Stanley Jevons documented that coal consumption
increased 10-fold after smelters tripled their efficiency (The Coal
Question, 1865), the phenomenon has been called the Jevons Paradox.
Historically, in capitalist systems, increased efficiency has led to more
consumption, not less.

Being efficient is good, but it does not mean sustainable, it does not mean
green, and it does not portend reduced consumption. Data center efficiency
is improving, and Google Inc.'s are reputed to be among the best. But when
Gaia is diminished by the ripping out of coal and the dumping of sludge, her
suffering is in no way reduced if the resulting electricity is used
"efficiently." Earth's problem is not the inefficiency of resource use, but
the quantity. Ask Gaia.

Food, internet, spam

Why do we figure out the ecological implications of eating a hamburger but
not clicking a search? When it comes to food, the green or even greenish
band of the political spectrum is all over it. Local food. Organic food.
Slow food. Urban agriculture. Permaculture. Rooftop gardens. Alice Waters,
Will Allen, Michael Pollan. "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants." Fast
food nation. Eat low on the food chain.

But when it comes to the Internet, people spout shallow unexamined cliches
as they tap at sleek, shiny gadgets. The PV panels at Google Inc.'s
headquarters and other cheap stunts deflect attention from the enormity of
Internet energy use. Engineering Professor Mohamed Cheriet, at Montreal's
Ecole de Technologie Superieure, who works on "green" IT innovation, gushes,
"We've found the key to the problem: Follow the wind, follow the sun." [9]
The Internet is the fast food triple bacon cheeseburger of communications,
yet people are convinced it's green.

Are the brains who figured out it takes 150 or 630 or 1300 gallons of water
to produce a hamburger just out to lunch when it comes to the Internet? Why
is the Internet‹a global system if there ever was one‹immune from the same
analysis? Spending two hours on the porch showing your neighbor your family
photo album is not especially energy-intensive. Doing so online, and sending
it around to everyone on your email list, carries vastly higher ecological
costs. 

File Size Matters
A text-only file of the Bible is approximately 1.5 MB. With pictures,
depending on how elaborate, it is closer to 100 MB. A 2-hour video about the
greatest story ever told would use up more like 1-1.5 GB. Comparing music
and video, a 4-minute video would use about 24 MB, while 4 minutes of music
would use only about 4 MB.

What's the actual content that billions of publicly subsidized kWh go to
support? Nicholas Carr (The Big Switch, 2008) estimated in 1996 that 94% of
all emails are spam, and that there may be 85 billion spams a day. This
year, John Markoff in the New York Times claimed that about 90% of all email
is still spam, and that one single spam campaign generated three emails for
each person on the planet, some 21 billion messages. Ken Auletta (Googled,
2009) suggested that as many as a quarter of all searches are for porn.
According to Alex Roslin at the Montreal Gazette, 250 billion emails are
sent daily. [10] The study Markoff referenced suggested that over 12 million
messages were needed to sell $100 of Viagra. [11] Dennis Walsh from
green at work, among others, states that over 200 million Internet searches
happen daily in the US alone; 100 million photos are uploaded daily. Google
Inc. has reported that it carries out about a billion searches per day,
according to James Glanz in the New York Times. [12]

One person estimated that fantasy football aficionados spent 2.4 billion
hours online per season. [13] Online games, role-playing, social networking,
gambling, and an almost unbelievable amount of advertising are up there in
the "cloud" at tremendous energy cost. Much of it is not the relatively
energy-cheap text, but the photos, music, video, bouncing cartoons, and
interactive click-fests that are hundreds or thousands of times more
energy-intensive. Subsidizing the entire current Internet system because an
activist can upload photos of strip mining and clearcutting is like
subsidizing an industrial-sized Wal-Mart because six feet of shelf space
holds organic spinach.

The Internet is not, and will not be, powered by so-called renewable energy,
magical energy that is somehow without consequences. Sleek, glowing screens
may hide the truth from people who don't want to hear about it, but the
consequences remain. The real costs of Internet electricity use are being
cast over state boundaries and national borders, across class, ethnic, and
species lines, and onto future generations.

In hindsight, most wish that we had used a little more foresight about the
automobile. Today is a good time to look up from our screens and take
advantage of the fact that we are still in the Model T era of the Internet.

If we keep pretending that the Internet is innocuous, neutral, democratic,
clean, and green, we can look forward to more iPipelines, iFracking,
iMountaintop Removal, iCoal Plants, iNukes, iStripmining, iSpecies
Extinction, iHabitat Loss, iClimate Change, iTar Sands, iSludge, iOil
spills, iFloods, and continued iResource Wars.

Or, we can begin to give it the attention we give a burger.

-------------------------
Corporate anthropologist Jane Anne Morris (democracythemepark.org
<http://democracythemepark.org/> ), whose most recent book is Gaveling Down
the Rabble: How "Free Trade" is Stealing Our Democracy (Apex/Rowman &
Littlefield, 2008), first wrote about Internet energy use in "The Energy
Nightmare of Web Server Farms: Feet in the Cloud, Head in the Sand,"
Synthesis/Regeneration: A Magazine of Green Social Thought, Winter 2008
(here).


Notes

1. 400 watts/server, for 8760 hours, would be 3,504,000 watt hours, or 3500
kWh a year necessary for one server.

2. Assume 4 pedalers (6-hour shifts) for each bike generator. 57,600 sq. ft
in a football field, or 1.32 acres, including end zones. 43,560 feet per
acre. 20,000,000 divided by 57,600 is 200,000 divided by 576 which is 347.22
or 347 football fields. In acres it is 459.136. (200,000 generators, 800,000
pedalers, twenty million square feet).

3. David Sarokin, untitled blog answer, Sat. Aug. 18, 2007, estimating
"electricity consumption for the Internet," with assumptions and discussion.
This same DS estimated world usage at that time as 868 billion kWh/year.
Sarokin data includes pc's, modems, etc.

4. Rich Miller, Google's Energy Story: High Efficiency, Huge Scale,
September 8, 2011, Data Center Knowledge website datacenterknowledge.com
<http://datacenterknowledge.com/> , quoting a report by Jon Koomey, whose
estimate for 2010 was 198.8 billion kWh, worldwide, for Internet use. I
rounded that to 200 billion kWh.

5. I looked up the major solar PV projects in the world and took a rough
average. 117 billion kWh divided by 96 million per square mile yields the
number of square miles =1218.75 = 1219 square miles; 117 billion divided by
1.5 million kWh/yr yields number of megawatts = 78,000 MW.

6. I looked up the major wind projects in the world and took a rough
average. 20 MW per sq. mile, 3 million kWh per MW, so 60 million kWh per sq
mile, so would need 117 divided by 60 = 1950 square miles.

7. Alex Roslin (Postmedia News), Could the Net be killing the planet one web
search at a time? in the Montreal Gazette, June 3, 2011.

8. One source for this is Ron Starner, Is Energy Still Oklahoma's Trump
Card? Site Selection Online, July 2007.

9. Alex Roslin, Dirty Data: The Internet's Giant Carbon Footprint, June 4,
2011, Montreal Gazette.

10. Alex Roslin (Postmedia News), Could the Net... Montreal Gazette June 3,
2011.

11. John Markoff, Study Sees Way to Win Spam Fight, NYT , May 20, 2011.

12. James Glanz, Google Details, and Defends, Its Use of Electricity, NYT,
Sept. 9, 2011.

13. http://www.joulex.net/Green_IT_Blog/bid/58292/




____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121003/c49f0ddc/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From shailam at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  2 18:38:21 2012
From: shailam at yahoo.com (shaila mistry)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 15:38:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <CAMz5XN5LLUt3DPT+v597EqjDxjfCcYF=WVeHEfMEmZs17P7QaA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com> <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br> <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br> <0CB09DB8-E475-4EEB-B1DB-84F1F921071E@privaterra.org> <CAMz5XN5LLUt3DPT+v597EqjDxjfCcYF=WVeHEfMEmZs17P7QaA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1349217501.34786.YahooMailNeo@web160505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Selection of speakers should be based on ability to speak, knowledge of issues, and involvement/ passion for IGF issues.
Giving opportunity to new speakers and ensuring gender and geography is also essential.

Shaila 

 
The journey begins sooner than you anticipate !
..................... the renaissance of composure !



________________________________
 From: Deirdre Williams <williams.deirdre at gmail.com>
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Robert Guerra <rguerra at privaterra.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 2:47 PM
Subject: Re: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
 

Reviewing the suggestions up to now it seems important that we should observe the two Gs - Gender and Geography. Robert suggests someone who is an expert ON Azerbaijan, but considering the precedent set last year in Nairobi would it be possible to choose someone FROM Azerbaijan, or at least from that part of the world?
Deirdre


On 2 October 2012 17:14, Robert Guerra <rguerra at privaterra.org> wrote:

Colleagues,
>
>
>I would like to nominate Katy Pearce as one of the Civil Society experts for the Baku main session.
>
>Katy is an academic expert who knows the Azerbaijan and the region very well. She knows the country and its dynamics. She's been an excellent resource for those of us who have been wanting to better know and understand Azerbaijan in the lead up to the IGF.
>
>I recommend her without reservation.Details on her research and work is available at her website:
>
>http://www.katypearce.net/
>
>
>regards
>
>Robert
>--
>R. Guerra
>Phone/Cell: +1 202-905-2081
>Twitter: twitter.com/netfreedom
>Email: rguerra at privaterra.org
>
>
>
>
>On 02/10/12 11:45, Izumi AIZU wrote:
>> Dear list,
>>
>> We need to select Civil Society speakers for the Baku Main session,
>> I think one for the opening and another for the closing session.
>>
>> Please send your suggestions and nominations asap.
>>
>> izumi
>>
>
>
>
>
>____________________________________________________________
>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
>For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
>Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
“The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
    http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121002/abd9156c/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From cveraq at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 19:06:48 2012
From: cveraq at gmail.com (Carlos Vera Quintana)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 18:06:48 -0500
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <0CB09DB8-E475-4EEB-B1DB-84F1F921071E@privaterra.org>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com> <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br> <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br> <0CB09DB8-E475-4EEB-B1DB-84F1F921071E@privaterra.org>
Message-ID: <E8336492-79A8-44F9-B96E-64B4AC9E9774@gmail.com>

+1 Carlos from Brazil

Enviado desde mi iPhone

El 02/10/2012, a las 16:14, Robert Guerra <rguerra at privaterra.org> escribió:

> Colleagues,
> 
> 
> I would like to nominate Katy Pearce as one of the Civil Society experts for the Baku main session.
> 
> Katy is an academic expert who knows the Azerbaijan and the region very well. She knows the country and its dynamics. She's been an excellent resource for those of us who have been wanting to better know and understand Azerbaijan in the lead up to the IGF.
> 
> I recommend her without reservation.Details on her research and work is available at her website:
> 
> http://www.katypearce.net/
> 
> 
> regards
> 
> Robert
> --
> R. Guerra
> Phone/Cell: +1 202-905-2081
> Twitter: twitter.com/netfreedom 
> Email: rguerra at privaterra.org
> 
> 
> 
> On 02/10/12 11:45, Izumi AIZU wrote:
>> Dear list,
>> 
>> We need to select Civil Society speakers for the Baku Main session,
>> I think one for the opening and another for the closing session.
>> 
>> Please send your suggestions and nominations asap.
>> 
>> izumi
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From apisan at unam.mx  Tue Oct  2 19:22:16 2012
From: apisan at unam.mx (Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 23:22:16 +0000
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <0CB09DB8-E475-4EEB-B1DB-84F1F921071E@privaterra.org>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com>
 <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br>
 <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br>,<0CB09DB8-E475-4EEB-B1DB-84F1F921071E@privaterra.org>
Message-ID: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D4841D1DF@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local>

Robert,

I would like to second your proposal of including Katy Pearce in the roster. 

I have interacted with her academically and observed her good work, good planning, careful observation, rational analysis, sensitive treatment of subjects which may endanger others, clear explanations and heartfelt advocacy.

She brings a fresh voice from a generation on whose seats we insist to stay. 

Her care about the potential speakers very rightfully suggested by Deirdre add weight to the appreciation of her merits.

Yours,

Alejandro Pisanty

! !! !!! !!!!
NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO



+52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD

+525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO

SMS +525541444475
     Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico

Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
.  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .

________________________________________
Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Robert Guerra [rguerra at privaterra.org]
Enviado el: martes, 02 de octubre de 2012 16:14
Hasta: Internet Governance Caucus
Asunto: Re: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku

Colleagues,


I would like to nominate Katy Pearce as one of the Civil Society experts for the Baku main session.

Katy is an academic expert who knows the Azerbaijan and the region very well. She knows the country and its dynamics. She's been an excellent resource for those of us who have been wanting to better know and understand Azerbaijan in the lead up to the IGF.

I recommend her without reservation.Details on her research and work is available at her website:

http://www.katypearce.net/


regards

Robert
--
R. Guerra
Phone/Cell: +1 202-905-2081
Twitter: twitter.com/netfreedom
Email: rguerra at privaterra.org



On 02/10/12 11:45, Izumi AIZU wrote:
> Dear list,
>
> We need to select Civil Society speakers for the Baku Main session,
> I think one for the opening and another for the closing session.
>
> Please send your suggestions and nominations asap.
>
> izumi
>




-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From parminder at itforchange.net  Wed Oct  3 01:19:45 2012
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 10:49:45 +0530
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <E8336492-79A8-44F9-B96E-64B4AC9E9774@gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com> <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br> <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br> <0CB09DB8-E475-4EEB-B1DB-84F1F921071E@privaterra.org> <E8336492-79A8-44F9-B96E-64B4AC9E9774@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <506BCAF1.7080504@itforchange.net>


+ 1

The best choice!

On Wednesday 03 October 2012 04:36 AM, Carlos Vera Quintana wrote:
> +1 Carlos from Brazil
>
> Enviado desde mi iPhone
>
> El 02/10/2012, a las 16:14, Robert Guerra <rguerra at privaterra.org> escribió:
>
>> Colleagues,
>>
>>
>> I would like to nominate Katy Pearce as one of the Civil Society experts for the Baku main session.
>>
>> Katy is an academic expert who knows the Azerbaijan and the region very well. She knows the country and its dynamics. She's been an excellent resource for those of us who have been wanting to better know and understand Azerbaijan in the lead up to the IGF.
>>
>> I recommend her without reservation.Details on her research and work is available at her website:
>>
>> http://www.katypearce.net/
>>
>>
>> regards
>>
>> Robert
>> --
>> R. Guerra
>> Phone/Cell: +1 202-905-2081
>> Twitter: twitter.com/netfreedom
>> Email: rguerra at privaterra.org
>>
>>
>>
>> On 02/10/12 11:45, Izumi AIZU wrote:
>>> Dear list,
>>>
>>> We need to select Civil Society speakers for the Baku Main session,
>>> I think one for the opening and another for the closing session.
>>>
>>> Please send your suggestions and nominations asap.
>>>
>>> izumi
>>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121003/75a60829/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From parminder at itforchange.net  Wed Oct  3 01:25:14 2012
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 10:55:14 +0530
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <506BCAF1.7080504@itforchange.net>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com> <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br> <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br> <0CB09DB8-E475-4EEB-B1DB-84F1F921071E@privaterra.org> <E8336492-79A8-44F9-B96E-64B4AC9E9774@gmail.com> <506BCAF1.7080504@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <506BCC3A.3080703@itforchange.net>


On Wednesday 03 October 2012 10:49 AM, parminder wrote:
>
> + 1
>
> The best choice!

Sorry, no offence intended to anyone but my endorsement was for Carlos 
Afonso. Apologies once again (I dont know anything about Katy either 
way) . parminder
>
> On Wednesday 03 October 2012 04:36 AM, Carlos Vera Quintana wrote:
>> +1 Carlos from Brazil
>>
>> Enviado desde mi iPhone
>>
>> El 02/10/2012, a las 16:14, Robert Guerra<rguerra at privaterra.org>  escribió:
>>
>>> Colleagues,
>>>
>>>
>>> I would like to nominate Katy Pearce as one of the Civil Society experts for the Baku main session.
>>>
>>> Katy is an academic expert who knows the Azerbaijan and the region very well. She knows the country and its dynamics. She's been an excellent resource for those of us who have been wanting to better know and understand Azerbaijan in the lead up to the IGF.
>>>
>>> I recommend her without reservation.Details on her research and work is available at her website:
>>>
>>> http://www.katypearce.net/
>>>
>>>
>>> regards
>>>
>>> Robert
>>> --
>>> R. Guerra
>>> Phone/Cell: +1 202-905-2081
>>> Twitter: twitter.com/netfreedom
>>> Email:rguerra at privaterra.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 02/10/12 11:45, Izumi AIZU wrote:
>>>> Dear list,
>>>>
>>>> We need to select Civil Society speakers for the Baku Main session,
>>>> I think one for the opening and another for the closing session.
>>>>
>>>> Please send your suggestions and nominations asap.
>>>>
>>>> izumi
>>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email:http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121003/298c1785/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From chaitanyabd at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 01:27:34 2012
From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 10:57:34 +0530
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <506BCC3A.3080703@itforchange.net>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com>
	<506B08C9.90107@cgi.br>
	<506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br>
	<0CB09DB8-E475-4EEB-B1DB-84F1F921071E@privaterra.org>
	<E8336492-79A8-44F9-B96E-64B4AC9E9774@gmail.com>
	<506BCAF1.7080504@itforchange.net>
	<506BCC3A.3080703@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <CAEP5zKRCQX29Ya1kTrzTUxtJNKX_02WHKFbkZCeKqDYbDH5fSw@mail.gmail.com>

This one? http://www.linkedin.com/in/kpearce

-C

On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 10:55 AM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>wrote:

>
> On Wednesday 03 October 2012 10:49 AM, parminder wrote:
>
>
> + 1
>
> The best choice!
>
>
> Sorry, no offence intended to anyone but my endorsement was for Carlos
> Afonso. Apologies once again (I dont know anything about Katy either way) .
> parminder
>
>
>  On Wednesday 03 October 2012 04:36 AM, Carlos Vera Quintana wrote:
>
> +1 Carlos from Brazil
>
> Enviado desde mi iPhone
>
> El 02/10/2012, a las 16:14, Robert Guerra <rguerra at privaterra.org> <rguerra at privaterra.org> escribió:
>
>
>  Colleagues,
>
>
> I would like to nominate Katy Pearce as one of the Civil Society experts for the Baku main session.
>
> Katy is an academic expert who knows the Azerbaijan and the region very well. She knows the country and its dynamics. She's been an excellent resource for those of us who have been wanting to better know and understand Azerbaijan in the lead up to the IGF.
>
> I recommend her without reservation.Details on her research and work is available at her website:
> http://www.katypearce.net/
>
>
> regards
>
> Robert
> --
> R. Guerra
> Phone/Cell: +1 202-905-2081
> Twitter: twitter.com/netfreedom
> Email: rguerra at privaterra.org
>
>
>
> On 02/10/12 11:45, Izumi AIZU wrote:
>
>  Dear list,
>
> We need to select Civil Society speakers for the Baku Main session,
> I think one for the opening and another for the closing session.
>
> Please send your suggestions and nominations asap.
>
> izumi
>
>
>  ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121003/793a323c/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From nne75 at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  3 03:32:35 2012
From: nne75 at yahoo.com (Nnenna)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 00:32:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [governance] Live broadcast of the Africa Internet Governance Forum
 - Cairo happening now
Message-ID: <1349249555.54528.YahooMailNeo@web120102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Dear all

Finally, you can participate remotely on 
http://bambuser.com/v/3031041

Best

N

 


Nnenna  Nwakanma |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG  |  Consultants
Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development
Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471 |Mob. 07416820
Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065| http://www.nnenna.org 
nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 | nnennaorg.blogspot.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121003/1f9edee0/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From judyokite at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 04:48:55 2012
From: judyokite at gmail.com (Judy Okite)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 11:48:55 +0300
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <CAEP5zKRCQX29Ya1kTrzTUxtJNKX_02WHKFbkZCeKqDYbDH5fSw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com>
	<506B08C9.90107@cgi.br>
	<506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br>
	<0CB09DB8-E475-4EEB-B1DB-84F1F921071E@privaterra.org>
	<E8336492-79A8-44F9-B96E-64B4AC9E9774@gmail.com>
	<506BCAF1.7080504@itforchange.net>
	<506BCC3A.3080703@itforchange.net>
	<CAEP5zKRCQX29Ya1kTrzTUxtJNKX_02WHKFbkZCeKqDYbDH5fSw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOD4ritWB5hSKNPrH9iLrfF9yp52VwCJ7Df5PCzdC9v8mrW_kg@mail.gmail.com>

+1 on Nnenna Nwakanma, Cote d'Ivoire, Africa.

She can speak, she understands the issues and has the passion.


Kind Regards,
*“Don't undertake a project unless it is manifestly important and nearly
impossible” Edwin Land*



On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 8:27 AM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar
<chaitanyabd at gmail.com>wrote:

> This one? http://www.linkedin.com/in/kpearce
>
> -C
>
> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 10:55 AM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>wrote:
>
>>
>> On Wednesday 03 October 2012 10:49 AM, parminder wrote:
>>
>>
>> + 1
>>
>> The best choice!
>>
>>
>> Sorry, no offence intended to anyone but my endorsement was for Carlos
>> Afonso. Apologies once again (I dont know anything about Katy either way) .
>> parminder
>>
>>
>>  On Wednesday 03 October 2012 04:36 AM, Carlos Vera Quintana wrote:
>>
>> +1 Carlos from Brazil
>>
>> Enviado desde mi iPhone
>>
>> El 02/10/2012, a las 16:14, Robert Guerra <rguerra at privaterra.org> <rguerra at privaterra.org> escribió:
>>
>>
>>  Colleagues,
>>
>>
>> I would like to nominate Katy Pearce as one of the Civil Society experts for the Baku main session.
>>
>> Katy is an academic expert who knows the Azerbaijan and the region very well. She knows the country and its dynamics. She's been an excellent resource for those of us who have been wanting to better know and understand Azerbaijan in the lead up to the IGF.
>>
>> I recommend her without reservation.Details on her research and work is available at her website:
>> http://www.katypearce.net/
>>
>>
>> regards
>>
>> Robert
>> --
>> R. Guerra
>> Phone/Cell: +1 202-905-2081
>> Twitter: twitter.com/netfreedom
>> Email: rguerra at privaterra.org
>>
>>
>>
>> On 02/10/12 11:45, Izumi AIZU wrote:
>>
>>  Dear list,
>>
>> We need to select Civil Society speakers for the Baku Main session,
>> I think one for the opening and another for the closing session.
>>
>> Please send your suggestions and nominations asap.
>>
>> izumi
>>
>>
>>  ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121003/ec1b7d8f/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From apisan at unam.mx  Wed Oct  3 09:17:39 2012
From: apisan at unam.mx (Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 13:17:39 +0000
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <CAOD4ritWB5hSKNPrH9iLrfF9yp52VwCJ7Df5PCzdC9v8mrW_kg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com>
	<506B08C9.90107@cgi.br>	<506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br>
	<0CB09DB8-E475-4EEB-B1DB-84F1F921071E@privaterra.org>
	<E8336492-79A8-44F9-B96E-64B4AC9E9774@gmail.com>
	<506BCAF1.7080504@itforchange.net>	<506BCC3A.3080703@itforchange.net>
	<CAEP5zKRCQX29Ya1kTrzTUxtJNKX_02WHKFbkZCeKqDYbDH5fSw@mail.gmail.com>,<CAOD4ritWB5hSKNPrH9iLrfF9yp52VwCJ7Df5PCzdC9v8mrW_kg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D4841D59B@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local>

Hi,

also glad to support Nnenna for the roster.

Alejandro Pisanty


! !! !!! !!!!
NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO



+52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD

+525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO

SMS +525541444475
     Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico

Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
.  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .

________________________________
Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Judy Okite [judyokite at gmail.com]
Enviado el: miércoles, 03 de octubre de 2012 03:48
Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Chaitanya Dhareshwar
CC: parminder
Asunto: Re: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku

+1 on Nnenna Nwakanma, Cote d'Ivoire, Africa.

She can speak, she understands the issues and has the passion.


Kind Regards,
“Don't undertake a project unless it is manifestly important and nearly impossible” Edwin Land



On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 8:27 AM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar <chaitanyabd at gmail.com<mailto:chaitanyabd at gmail.com>> wrote:
This one? http://www.linkedin.com/in/kpearce

-C

On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 10:55 AM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net<mailto:parminder at itforchange.net>> wrote:

On Wednesday 03 October 2012 10:49 AM, parminder wrote:

+ 1

The best choice!

Sorry, no offence intended to anyone but my endorsement was for Carlos Afonso. Apologies once again (I dont know anything about Katy either way) . parminder

On Wednesday 03 October 2012 04:36 AM, Carlos Vera Quintana wrote:

+1 Carlos from Brazil

Enviado desde mi iPhone

El 02/10/2012, a las 16:14, Robert Guerra <rguerra at privaterra.org><mailto:rguerra at privaterra.org> escribió:



Colleagues,


I would like to nominate Katy Pearce as one of the Civil Society experts for the Baku main session.

Katy is an academic expert who knows the Azerbaijan and the region very well. She knows the country and its dynamics. She's been an excellent resource for those of us who have been wanting to better know and understand Azerbaijan in the lead up to the IGF.

I recommend her without reservation.Details on her research and work is available at her website:

http://www.katypearce.net/


regards

Robert
--
R. Guerra
Phone/Cell: +1 202-905-2081
Twitter: twitter.com/netfreedom<http://twitter.com/netfreedom>
Email: rguerra at privaterra.org<mailto:rguerra at privaterra.org>



On 02/10/12 11:45, Izumi AIZU wrote:


Dear list,

We need to select Civil Society speakers for the Baku Main session,
I think one for the opening and another for the closing session.

Please send your suggestions and nominations asap.

izumi



____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
    governance at lists.igcaucus.org<mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
To be removed from the list, visit:
    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
    http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t




____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org<mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t



____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org<mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121003/1162a332/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From ajp at glocom.ac.jp  Wed Oct  3 09:19:45 2012
From: ajp at glocom.ac.jp (Adam Peake)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 22:19:45 +0900
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <CAOD4ritWB5hSKNPrH9iLrfF9yp52VwCJ7Df5PCzdC9v8mrW_kg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com>
	<506B08C9.90107@cgi.br>
	<506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br>
	<0CB09DB8-E475-4EEB-B1DB-84F1F921071E@privaterra.org>
	<E8336492-79A8-44F9-B96E-64B4AC9E9774@gmail.com>
	<506BCAF1.7080504@itforchange.net>
	<506BCC3A.3080703@itforchange.net>
	<CAEP5zKRCQX29Ya1kTrzTUxtJNKX_02WHKFbkZCeKqDYbDH5fSw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOD4ritWB5hSKNPrH9iLrfF9yp52VwCJ7Df5PCzdC9v8mrW_kg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFabd1KpefQZw04duMK55eTMGdyAJ5D=jkq=HiwPwDAuByHd6w@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 5:48 PM, Judy Okite <judyokite at gmail.com> wrote:
> +1 on Nnenna Nwakanma, Cote d'Ivoire, Africa.
>

has my support.


> She can speak, she understands the issues and has the passion.
>

and right now helping organize the africa IGF

Adam



>
> Kind Regards,
>
> “Don't undertake a project unless it is manifestly important and nearly
> impossible” Edwin Land
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 8:27 AM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar <chaitanyabd at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> This one? http://www.linkedin.com/in/kpearce
>>
>> -C
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 10:55 AM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday 03 October 2012 10:49 AM, parminder wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> + 1
>>>
>>> The best choice!
>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry, no offence intended to anyone but my endorsement was for Carlos
>>> Afonso. Apologies once again (I dont know anything about Katy either way) .
>>> parminder
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday 03 October 2012 04:36 AM, Carlos Vera Quintana wrote:
>>>
>>> +1 Carlos from Brazil
>>>
>>> Enviado desde mi iPhone
>>>
>>> El 02/10/2012, a las 16:14, Robert Guerra <rguerra at privaterra.org>
>>> escribió:
>>>
>>> Colleagues,
>>>
>>>
>>> I would like to nominate Katy Pearce as one of the Civil Society experts
>>> for the Baku main session.
>>>
>>> Katy is an academic expert who knows the Azerbaijan and the region very
>>> well. She knows the country and its dynamics. She's been an excellent
>>> resource for those of us who have been wanting to better know and understand
>>> Azerbaijan in the lead up to the IGF.
>>>
>>> I recommend her without reservation.Details on her research and work is
>>> available at her website:
>>>
>>> http://www.katypearce.net/
>>>
>>>
>>> regards
>>>
>>> Robert
>>> --
>>> R. Guerra
>>> Phone/Cell: +1 202-905-2081
>>> Twitter: twitter.com/netfreedom
>>> Email: rguerra at privaterra.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 02/10/12 11:45, Izumi AIZU wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear list,
>>>
>>> We need to select Civil Society speakers for the Baku Main session,
>>> I think one for the opening and another for the closing session.
>>>
>>> Please send your suggestions and nominations asap.
>>>
>>> izumi
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>

-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From iza at anr.org  Wed Oct  3 10:01:26 2012
From: iza at anr.org (Izumi AIZU)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 23:01:26 +0900
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <CAEP5zKRCQX29Ya1kTrzTUxtJNKX_02WHKFbkZCeKqDYbDH5fSw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com>
 <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br> <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br> <0CB09DB8-E475-4EEB-B1DB-84F1F921071E@privaterra.org>
 <E8336492-79A8-44F9-B96E-64B4AC9E9774@gmail.com> <506BCAF1.7080504@itforchange.net>
 <506BCC3A.3080703@itforchange.net> <CAEP5zKRCQX29Ya1kTrzTUxtJNKX_02WHKFbkZCeKqDYbDH5fSw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+YNoKjzLREA0JagVbbhekUac_QT3rJTuYSqHPTwY7kqZZSGmg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list,
Thank you for the many great nominations.
We need to select two speakers.

I think it is important that we select according to the
mutually agreed principles.

As usual, we need to consider gender and regional balance. So, at
least one each, unless we have two female speakers, which is just fine
in my view.

I think she or he should be relevant to the Civil society activities,
not confined by IGC itself, but broader interests of the CS in terms
of Internet governance.

As was pointed out, the relevance with the host might be another
factor. Relevance with development agenda should be also considered.

For those who have nominated someone, could you please confirm if he
or she is willing to accept?
Unfortunately, we have no travel support for the speakers, per se. So,
please also confirm that she or he will be able to travel to Baku.

So far, most, if not all, of the nominees seem to be filling these criteria.

I like to see more discussions, support, new names, seconds etc for a
couple of days, and then we need to close.

I propose to setup a poll, run for 48 hours and then select the winner.

Is this OK with you? Or, please suggest any alternative or additional thouhts.

best,

izumi

-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From glaser at cgi.br  Wed Oct  3 11:59:25 2012
From: glaser at cgi.br (Hartmut Glaser)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 12:59:25 -0300
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <CA+YNoKjzLREA0JagVbbhekUac_QT3rJTuYSqHPTwY7kqZZSGmg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com> <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br> <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br> <0CB09DB8-E475-4EEB-B1DB-84F1F921071E@privaterra.org> <E8336492-79A8-44F9-B96E-64B4AC9E9774@gmail.com> <506BCAF1.7080504@itforchange.net> <506BCC3A.3080703@itforchange.net> <CAEP5zKRCQX29Ya1kTrzTUxtJNKX_02WHKFbkZCeKqDYbDH5fSw@mail.gmail.com> <CA+YNoKjzLREA0JagVbbhekUac_QT3rJTuYSqHPTwY7kqZZSGmg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <93B03C18-080D-4853-86EC-C09570AF1BF8@cgi.br>

Carlos Afonso's expenses will be covered by the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee/CGI.br.

via iPhone
Prof.
Hartmut Glaser

On 03/10/2012, at 11:01, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:

> Dear list,
> Thank you for the many great nominations.
> We need to select two speakers.
> 
> I think it is important that we select according to the
> mutually agreed principles.
> 
> As usual, we need to consider gender and regional balance. So, at
> least one each, unless we have two female speakers, which is just fine
> in my view.
> 
> I think she or he should be relevant to the Civil society activities,
> not confined by IGC itself, but broader interests of the CS in terms
> of Internet governance.
> 
> As was pointed out, the relevance with the host might be another
> factor. Relevance with development agenda should be also considered.
> 
> For those who have nominated someone, could you please confirm if he
> or she is willing to accept?
> Unfortunately, we have no travel support for the speakers, per se. So,
> please also confirm that she or he will be able to travel to Baku.
> 
> So far, most, if not all, of the nominees seem to be filling these criteria.
> 
> I like to see more discussions, support, new names, seconds etc for a
> couple of days, and then we need to close.
> 
> I propose to setup a poll, run for 48 hours and then select the winner.
> 
> Is this OK with you? Or, please suggest any alternative or additional thouhts.
> 
> best,
> 
> izumi
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From mail at christopherwilkinson.eu  Wed Oct  3 13:00:47 2012
From: mail at christopherwilkinson.eu (CW Mail)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 19:00:47 +0200
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <CA+YNoKjzLREA0JagVbbhekUac_QT3rJTuYSqHPTwY7kqZZSGmg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com> <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br> <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br> <0CB09DB8-E475-4EEB-B1DB-84F1F921071E@privaterra.org> <E8336492-79A8-44F9-B96E-64B4AC9E9774@gmail.com> <506BCAF1.7080504@itforchange.net> <506BCC3A.3080703@itforchange.net> <CAEP5zKRCQX29Ya1kTrzTUxtJNKX_02WHKFbkZCeKqDYbDH5fSw@mail.gmail.com> <CA+YNoKjzLREA0JagVbbhekUac_QT3rJTuYSqHPTwY7kqZZSGmg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C170D828-2E40-4E1C-AC3E-578FD442B1C8@christopherwilkinson.eu>

Good evening:

May I say that I do not care who shall speak for IGC in Baku. The  
important thing is what she and/or he shall say.

Rather than worrying about 'nominations', since that is already pre- 
selected by those who can afford time and money to travel (and get  
their visas etc.),
I would rather see this list discussing a concrete speaking brief for  
the IGC statements at the IGF.

Just a thought,

CW



On 03 Oct 2012, at 16:01, Izumi AIZU wrote:

> Dear list,
> Thank you for the many great nominations.
> We need to select two speakers.
>
> I think it is important that we select according to the
> mutually agreed principles.
>
> As usual, we need to consider gender and regional balance. So, at
> least one each, unless we have two female speakers, which is just fine
> in my view.
>
> I think she or he should be relevant to the Civil society activities,
> not confined by IGC itself, but broader interests of the CS in terms
> of Internet governance.
>
> As was pointed out, the relevance with the host might be another
> factor. Relevance with development agenda should be also considered.
>
> For those who have nominated someone, could you please confirm if he
> or she is willing to accept?
> Unfortunately, we have no travel support for the speakers, per se. So,
> please also confirm that she or he will be able to travel to Baku.
>
> So far, most, if not all, of the nominees seem to be filling these  
> criteria.
>
> I like to see more discussions, support, new names, seconds etc for a
> couple of days, and then we need to close.
>
> I propose to setup a poll, run for 48 hours and then select the  
> winner.
>
> Is this OK with you? Or, please suggest any alternative or  
> additional thouhts.
>
> best,
>
> izumi
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From charityg at diplomacy.edu  Wed Oct  3 13:39:01 2012
From: charityg at diplomacy.edu (Charity Gamboa)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 12:39:01 -0500
Subject: [governance] Philippine Controversy Over the CyberCrime Law
Message-ID: <CABDWBFrp5ANSbkQC=4uPwS=qSFuKbvc1EMWYYyfnSCSSda439A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I am just sharing about what's going on my turf. Apparently the Philippine
Government passed a CyberCRime Prevention Act - well, I suppose that's good
against hacking, identity theft and spamming. But there's a provision on
online libel that's pretty getting on every Filipino's nerves.Anything that
you would post, for instance, in Facebook criticizing anybody is considered
libel. This also includes sharing or liking a post or picture. Just to show
that sometimes politicians have no business making laws they know nothing
much. Here's a news story from Forbes below:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/10/02/the-philippines-passes-the-cybercrime-prevention-act-that-makes-sopa-look-reasonable/

Regards,
Charity
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121003/78cca181/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From lmcknigh at syr.edu  Wed Oct  3 14:33:24 2012
From: lmcknigh at syr.edu (Lee W McKnight)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 18:33:24 +0000
Subject: [governance] Philippine Controversy Over the CyberCrime Law
In-Reply-To: <CABDWBFrp5ANSbkQC=4uPwS=qSFuKbvc1EMWYYyfnSCSSda439A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABDWBFrp5ANSbkQC=4uPwS=qSFuKbvc1EMWYYyfnSCSSda439A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B1499B4@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu>

Thanks Charity for sharing.

You know it's bad when Forbes 'The Capitalist Tool' thinks a cybercrime law has gone too far...

Lee
________________________________
From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] on behalf of Charity Gamboa [charityg at diplomacy.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 1:39 PM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
Subject: [governance] Philippine Controversy Over the CyberCrime Law

Hi all,

I am just sharing about what's going on my turf. Apparently the Philippine Government passed a CyberCRime Prevention Act - well, I suppose that's good against hacking, identity theft and spamming. But there's a provision on online libel that's pretty getting on every Filipino's nerves.Anything that you would post, for instance, in Facebook criticizing anybody is considered libel. This also includes sharing or liking a post or picture. Just to show that sometimes politicians have no business making laws they know nothing much. Here's a news story from Forbes below:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/10/02/the-philippines-passes-the-cybercrime-prevention-act-that-makes-sopa-look-reasonable/

Regards,
Charity
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121003/ea8085ba/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From mueller at syr.edu  Wed Oct  3 14:33:20 2012
From: mueller at syr.edu (Milton L Mueller)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 18:33:20 +0000
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <C170D828-2E40-4E1C-AC3E-578FD442B1C8@christopherwilkinson.eu>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com>
 <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br> <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br>
 <0CB09DB8-E475-4EEB-B1DB-84F1F921071E@privaterra.org>
 <E8336492-79A8-44F9-B96E-64B4AC9E9774@gmail.com>
 <506BCAF1.7080504@itforchange.net> <506BCC3A.3080703@itforchange.net>
 <CAEP5zKRCQX29Ya1kTrzTUxtJNKX_02WHKFbkZCeKqDYbDH5fSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+YNoKjzLREA0JagVbbhekUac_QT3rJTuYSqHPTwY7kqZZSGmg@mail.gmail.com>
 <C170D828-2E40-4E1C-AC3E-578FD442B1C8@christopherwilkinson.eu>
Message-ID: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD2248050@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>

I agree with these comments.
--MM

From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of CW Mail


Rather than worrying about 'nominations', since that is already pre-
selected by those who can afford time and money to travel (and get
their visas etc.),
I would rather see this list discussing a concrete speaking brief for
the IGC statements at the IGF.

Just a thought,

CW


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121003/a2c6268a/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From dsullivan at globalnetworkinitiative.org  Wed Oct  3 15:15:04 2012
From: dsullivan at globalnetworkinitiative.org (David Sullivan)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 15:15:04 -0400
Subject: [governance] GNI Policy Brief: Corporate Responsibility and Global
 Internet Governance
In-Reply-To: <CA+hSVSrupGzRQKMo+CjYh97n6vDHHUV1GHJRM7MWX4-74YSmKQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+hSVSrupGzRQKMo+CjYh97n6vDHHUV1GHJRM7MWX4-74YSmKQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+hSVSq_4x7M1-hjoL-vo=PkkWk65-dYGYkNRv75BTnV4vythA@mail.gmail.com>

I though this list may be interested in a new publication by the Global
Network Initiative (apologies for cross-posting)...


*Corporate Responsibility and Global Internet Governance *



*A Global Network Initiative Policy Brief*



This December in Dubai, world governments will gather to renegotiate a key
treaty under the auspices of the International Telecommunication Union
(ITU), a UN agency that specializes in global telecommunications. The
meeting, known as the World Conference on International Telecommunications
(WCIT), has been billed as a mortal threat to Internet freedom, a rare
opportunity to fix inequitable flaws in the existing global economic
framework for communications infrastructure, and all or none of the above.



Although there is a real risk that authoritarian states will use this
process to seek greater government control over the Internet, it would be a
mistake to turn the WCIT into a referendum on UN involvement in Internet
governance. The UN already plays a key role through the international human
rights system, and by supporting discussion venues like the Internet
Governance Forum. The problem is that the opaque ITU process, which is
largely closed to civil society participation, presents opportunities for
governments to pursue politically motivated policies at the expense of
users and innovators alike.  Although companies and governments have
legitimate reasons to cooperate on Internet policy, when this happens
behind closed doors without adequate safeguards the human rights of users
can be put at risk.



The Global Network Initiative (GNI) was formed to develop standards and an
accountability framework for information and communications technology
(ICT) companies faced with government requests impacting free expression
and privacy rights, and to strengthen efforts to work with governments to
advance these rights globally. Based on this experience, we offer the
following recommendations for governments and other stakeholders to
consider:



   1. Embrace international human rights standards. They provide an
   objective baseline that is universally acknowledged, even if governments do
   not always live up to them.
   2. Ensure multi-stakeholder collaboration. Pool the collective expertise
   of informed stakeholders and allow civil society to check company and
   government action that may infringe on rights.
   3. Enhance transparency. Committing to a system of transparency with the
   public provides credibility and accountability.



Internet governance and policy is a complex subject that is unsuited to
top-down, government-dominated structures. Taken together, human rights
standards, multi-stakeholder collaboration, and transparency are necessary
safeguards against increased government control of the Internet, and also
offer practical opportunities to improve the existing system.



Download the full policy brief
<http://globalnetworkinitiative.org/sites/default/files/Corporate%20Responsibility%20and%20Internet%20Governance.pdf>
(PDF).

* *

*GNI is a multi-stakeholder group of companies, civil society organizations
(including human rights and press freedom groups), investors and academics,
who have created a collaborative approach to protect and advance freedom of
expression and privacy in the ICT sector. GNI provides resources for ICT
companies to help them address difficult issues related to freedom of
expression and privacy that they may face anywhere in the world. GNI has
created a framework of principles and a confidential, collaborative
approach to working through challenges of corporate responsibility in the
ICT sector.*


-- 
David Sullivan
Policy and Communications Director
Global Network Initiative
Office: +1 202 407 8831
Cell: +1 646 595 5373
www.globalnetworkinitiative.org
@theGNI <http://twitter.com/theGNI>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121003/7842ba9e/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From ginger at paque.net  Wed Oct  3 16:34:25 2012
From: ginger at paque.net (Ginger Paque)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 15:34:25 -0500
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD2248050@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com>
 <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br> <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br> <0CB09DB8-E475-4EEB-B1DB-84F1F921071E@privaterra.org>
 <E8336492-79A8-44F9-B96E-64B4AC9E9774@gmail.com> <506BCAF1.7080504@itforchange.net>
 <506BCC3A.3080703@itforchange.net> <CAEP5zKRCQX29Ya1kTrzTUxtJNKX_02WHKFbkZCeKqDYbDH5fSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+YNoKjzLREA0JagVbbhekUac_QT3rJTuYSqHPTwY7kqZZSGmg@mail.gmail.com>
 <C170D828-2E40-4E1C-AC3E-578FD442B1C8@christopherwilkinson.eu> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD2248050@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <CALCecM-H4nQWir+MqVTiRQPOLsXNavXdG4ofd6M0oe47UK6bMw@mail.gmail.com>

I think that both points are important... I would say 'in addition to' not
'rather than'. Whom we choose sends a signal as sometimes as significant as
their words, and we tend to know their general positions as well as
speaking abilities when we nominate them.

Since the nominees are speaking on our behalf, perhaps we should ask them
for and offer some speaking points for discussion 'as well'--as we have
done before in helping speakers outline their interventions.

Cheers, Ginger

On 3 October 2012 13:33, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu> wrote:

>  I agree with these comments.****
>
> --MM****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:
> governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] *On Behalf Of *CW Mail
>
> ****
>
>
> Rather than worrying about 'nominations', since that is already pre-
> selected by those who can afford time and money to travel (and get
> their visas etc.),
> I would rather see this list discussing a concrete speaking brief for
> the IGC statements at the IGF.
>
> Just a thought,
>
> CW
>
>
> ****
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121003/4fe14d43/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From shailam at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  3 16:45:07 2012
From: shailam at yahoo.com (shaila mistry)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 13:45:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <CALCecM-H4nQWir+MqVTiRQPOLsXNavXdG4ofd6M0oe47UK6bMw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com> <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br> <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br> <0CB09DB8-E475-4EEB-B1DB-84F1F921071E@privaterra.org> <E8336492-79A8-44F9-B96E-64B4AC9E9774@gmail.com> <506BCAF1.7080504@itforchange.net> <506BCC3A.3080703@itforchange.net> <CAEP5zKRCQX29Ya1kTrzTUxtJNKX_02WHKFbkZCeKqDYbDH5fSw@mail.gmail.com> <CA+YNoKjzLREA0JagVbbhekUac_QT3rJTuYSqHPTwY7kqZZSGmg@mail.gmail.com> <C170D828-2E40-4E1C-AC3E-578FD442B1C8@christopherwilkinson.eu> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD2248050@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <CALCecM-H4nQWir+MqVTiRQPOLsXNavXdG4ofd6M0oe47UK6bMw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1349297107.5633.YahooMailNeo@web160503.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Well said Ginger !!


 
The journey begins sooner than you anticipate !
..................... the renaissance of composure !



________________________________
 From: Ginger Paque <ginger at paque.net>
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu> 
Cc: CW Mail <mail at christopherwilkinson.eu>; Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 1:34 PM
Subject: Re: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
 

I think that both points are important... I would say 'in addition to' not 'rather than'. Whom we choose sends a signal as sometimes as significant as their words, and we tend to know their general positions as well as speaking abilities when we nominate them.

Since the nominees are speaking on our behalf, perhaps we should ask them for and offer some speaking points for discussion 'as well'--as we have done before in helping speakers outline their interventions.

Cheers, Ginger


On 3 October 2012 13:33, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu> wrote:

I agree with these comments.
>--MM
> 
>From:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of CW Mail
>
>
>
>Rather than worrying about 'nominations', since that is already pre- 
>selected by those who can afford time and money to travel (and get  
>their visas etc.),
>I would rather see this list discussing a concrete speaking brief for  
>the IGC statements at the IGF.
>
>Just a thought,
>
>CW
>
>
>
>____________________________________________________________
>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
>For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
>Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
    http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121003/9137be08/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From femlists at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 17:17:58 2012
From: femlists at gmail.com (Magaly Pazello)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 18:17:58 -0300
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <CALCecM-H4nQWir+MqVTiRQPOLsXNavXdG4ofd6M0oe47UK6bMw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com>
	<506B08C9.90107@cgi.br>
	<506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br>
	<0CB09DB8-E475-4EEB-B1DB-84F1F921071E@privaterra.org>
	<E8336492-79A8-44F9-B96E-64B4AC9E9774@gmail.com>
	<506BCAF1.7080504@itforchange.net>
	<506BCC3A.3080703@itforchange.net>
	<CAEP5zKRCQX29Ya1kTrzTUxtJNKX_02WHKFbkZCeKqDYbDH5fSw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+YNoKjzLREA0JagVbbhekUac_QT3rJTuYSqHPTwY7kqZZSGmg@mail.gmail.com>
	<C170D828-2E40-4E1C-AC3E-578FD442B1C8@christopherwilkinson.eu>
	<855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD2248050@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
	<CALCecM-H4nQWir+MqVTiRQPOLsXNavXdG4ofd6M0oe47UK6bMw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMzgx0kL6N+hkeh07g4NHmKOi5TtR1soSuBVBaAx7r_Vkbwrig@mail.gmail.com>

I agree with Ginger comments.
Magaly

2012/10/3 Ginger Paque <ginger at paque.net>

> I think that both points are important... I would say 'in addition to' not
> 'rather than'. Whom we choose sends a signal as sometimes as significant as
> their words, and we tend to know their general positions as well as
> speaking abilities when we nominate them.
>
> Since the nominees are speaking on our behalf, perhaps we should ask them
> for and offer some speaking points for discussion 'as well'--as we have
> done before in helping speakers outline their interventions.
>
> Cheers, Ginger
>
> On 3 October 2012 13:33, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu> wrote:
>
>>  I agree with these comments.
>>
>> --MM
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:
>> governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] *On Behalf Of *CW Mail
>>
>>
>> Rather than worrying about 'nominations', since that is already pre-
>> selected by those who can afford time and money to travel (and get
>> their visas etc.),
>> I would rather see this list discussing a concrete speaking brief for
>> the IGC statements at the IGF.
>>
>> Just a thought,
>>
>> CW
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121003/d4f86daa/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From vanda at uol.com.br  Wed Oct  3 17:39:57 2012
From: vanda at uol.com.br (Vanda UOL)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 18:39:57 -0300
Subject: RES: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <0CB09DB8-E475-4EEB-B1DB-84F1F921071E@privaterra.org>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com> <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br> <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br> <0CB09DB8-E475-4EEB-B1DB-84F1F921071E@privaterra.org>
Message-ID: <04c201cda1af$a474d000$ed5e7000$@uol.com.br>

Good suggestion!!

-----Mensagem original-----
De: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
[mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] Em nome de Robert Guerra
Enviada em: terça-feira, 2 de outubro de 2012 18:15
Para: Internet Governance Caucus
Assunto: Re: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku

Colleagues,


I would like to nominate Katy Pearce as one of the Civil Society experts for
the Baku main session.

Katy is an academic expert who knows the Azerbaijan and the region very
well. She knows the country and its dynamics. She's been an excellent
resource for those of us who have been wanting to better know and understand
Azerbaijan in the lead up to the IGF.

I recommend her without reservation.Details on her research and work is
available at her website:

http://www.katypearce.net/


regards

Robert
--
R. Guerra
Phone/Cell: +1 202-905-2081
Twitter: twitter.com/netfreedom 
Email: rguerra at privaterra.org



On 02/10/12 11:45, Izumi AIZU wrote:
> Dear list,
> 
> We need to select Civil Society speakers for the Baku Main session,
> I think one for the opening and another for the closing session.
> 
> Please send your suggestions and nominations asap.
> 
> izumi
> 





-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From natalia.enciso at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 20:38:51 2012
From: natalia.enciso at gmail.com (Natalia Enciso)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 20:38:51 -0400
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <CA+EjHYpgJKTLqmDvc4wFGqFuXEFvdw+HjXczhDKaW1JZBKV4Cw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com>
	<506B08C9.90107@cgi.br>
	<506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br>
	<15177927-D3AA-48A1-9869-D3A9F9BE7E31@safernet.org.br>
	<CA+EjHYpgJKTLqmDvc4wFGqFuXEFvdw+HjXczhDKaW1JZBKV4Cw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMm0uPNBeVinhxU67FQ=Pbt=bw2OerUX3QM1pVQDheorB-ek9A@mail.gmail.com>

+1 for Carlos Affonso.

2012/10/2 Louis Pouzin (well) <pouzin at well.com>

> +1 for Carlos Afonso (CA)
> Louis
> - - -
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 11:02 PM, Thiago Tavares Nunes de Oliveira <
> thiagotavares at safernet.org.br> wrote:
>
>> +1 Carlos Afonso (CA)
>>
>> all the best,
>> Thiago Tavares
>> SaferNet Brasil
>>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
natalia.enciso at gmail.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121003/d9bd66c3/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From nne75 at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  3 22:12:25 2012
From: nne75 at yahoo.com (Nnenna)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 19:12:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <CAMm0uPNBeVinhxU67FQ=Pbt=bw2OerUX3QM1pVQDheorB-ek9A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com> <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br> <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br> <15177927-D3AA-48A1-9869-D3A9F9BE7E31@safernet.org.br> <CA+EjHYpgJKTLqmDvc4wFGqFuXEFvdw+HjXczhDKaW1JZBKV4Cw@mail.gmail.com> <CAMm0uPNBeVinhxU67FQ=Pbt=bw2OerUX3QM1pVQDheorB-ek9A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1349316745.29588.YahooMailNeo@web120101.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hi people

I do not mind "reading a statement" that has been consensually drafted, on behalf of the CS. Please note that my badge will bear "Private Sector" as I registered as the CEO of my Consultancy.

[
Shift
     ]

Back to watching Obama-Romney debate

Nnenna

 


Nnenna  Nwakanma |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG  |  Consultants
Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development
Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471 |Mob. 07416820
Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065| http://www.nnenna.org 
nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 | nnennaorg.blogspot.com



________________________________
 From: Natalia Enciso <natalia.enciso at gmail.com>
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Louis Pouzin (well) <pouzin at well.com> 
Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 12:38 AM
Subject: Re: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
 

+1 for Carlos Affonso.


2012/10/2 Louis Pouzin (well) <pouzin at well.com>

+1 for Carlos Afonso (CA)
>Louis
>- - -
>
>
>
>On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 11:02 PM, Thiago Tavares Nunes de Oliveira <thiagotavares at safernet.org.br> wrote:
>
>+1 Carlos Afonso (CA)
>>
>>all the best,
>>Thiago Tavares
>>SaferNet Brasil
>>
>____________________________________________________________
>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
>For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
>Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
natalia.enciso at gmail.com


____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
    http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121003/95813cc7/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From william.drake at uzh.ch  Thu Oct  4 02:13:48 2012
From: william.drake at uzh.ch (William Drake)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 08:13:48 +0200
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <CA+YNoKjzLREA0JagVbbhekUac_QT3rJTuYSqHPTwY7kqZZSGmg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com> <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br> <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br> <0CB09DB8-E475-4EEB-B1DB-84F1F921071E@privaterra.org> <E8336492-79A8-44F9-B96E-64B4AC9E9774@gmail.com> <506BCAF1.7080504@itforchange.net> <506BCC3A.3080703@itforchange.net> <CAEP5zKRCQX29Ya1kTrzTUxtJNKX_02WHKFbkZCeKqDYbDH5fSw@mail.gmail.com> <CA+YNoKjzLREA0JagVbbhekUac_QT3rJTuYSqHPTwY7kqZZSGmg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8468E09B-B3E2-457A-B852-C15BF532E1AC@uzh.ch>

Hi

I just looked at the list of speakers who will be available in Baku http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/2012/Panellists/Panellists%202012%20v2.pdf, which seems like a reasonable starting point.  Would like to throw another idea in the pot: Rebecca McKinnon.  After all, she's involved in a MS enterprise, Global Voices Online, recently published a sort bestseller on human rights and the Internet, and is a very good speaker.  I've not asked her yet if she's interested, just floating it here for now.

Bill
--------------

McKinnon Rebecca (Ms)
Primary Professional affiliation: New America Foundation 
Stakeholder Group: Civil Society 
Region: Western European and Others Group - WEOG 
Biography:
Rebecca MacKinnon is a Bernard L. Schwartz Senior Fellow at the New America Foundation, where she conducts 
research, writing and advocacy on global Internet policy, free expression, and the impact of digital technologies on 
human rights. Her first book, Consent of the Networked: The Worldwide Struggle for Internet Freedom, will be 
published in January 2012 by Basic Books. MacKinnon is cofounder of Global Voices Online 
(globalvoicesonline.org), a global citizen media network. She also serves on the Boards of Directors of the 
Committee to Protect Journalists and the Global Network Initiative, a multi-stakeholder initiative to promote the 
upholding of basic principles on free expression and privacy in the ICT sector. (globalnetworkinitiative.org) Fluent in 
Mandarin Chinese, MacKinnon worked as a journalist for CNN in Beijing for nine years including as Beijing Bureau 
Chief and Correspondent from 1998-2001; then as CNN’s Tokyo Bureau Chief and Correspondent from 2001-03. 
>From 2004-06 she was a Research Fellow at Harvard's Berkman Center for Internet and Society, where she began her 196
ongoing research and writing about Chinese Internet censorship in addition to launching Global Voices Online. In 
2007-08 she taught online journalism at the University of Hong Kong's Journalism and Media Studies Centre. In 
2009 she conducted research and writing as an Open Society Institute Fellow, and in the Spring of 2010 she was a 
Visiting Fellow at Princeton’s Center or Information Technology Policy. MacKinnon received her AB magna cum 
laude from Harvard College and was a Fullbright scholar in Taiwan in 1991-92.

On Oct 3, 2012, at 4:01 PM, Izumi AIZU wrote:

> Dear list,
> Thank you for the many great nominations.
> We need to select two speakers.
> 
> I think it is important that we select according to the
> mutually agreed principles.
> 
> As usual, we need to consider gender and regional balance. So, at
> least one each, unless we have two female speakers, which is just fine
> in my view.
> 
> I think she or he should be relevant to the Civil society activities,
> not confined by IGC itself, but broader interests of the CS in terms
> of Internet governance.
> 
> As was pointed out, the relevance with the host might be another
> factor. Relevance with development agenda should be also considered.
> 
> For those who have nominated someone, could you please confirm if he
> or she is willing to accept?
> Unfortunately, we have no travel support for the speakers, per se. So,
> please also confirm that she or he will be able to travel to Baku.
> 
> So far, most, if not all, of the nominees seem to be filling these criteria.
> 
> I like to see more discussions, support, new names, seconds etc for a
> couple of days, and then we need to close.
> 
> I propose to setup a poll, run for 48 hours and then select the winner.
> 
> Is this OK with you? Or, please suggest any alternative or additional thouhts.
> 
> best,
> 
> izumi
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121004/52ce47d8/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From william.drake at uzh.ch  Thu Oct  4 02:34:26 2012
From: william.drake at uzh.ch (William Drake)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 08:34:26 +0200
Subject: [governance] NCUC Policy Conference 12 Oct in Toronto
Message-ID: <05793ECD-A746-4A54-B817-6740BF1F4114@uzh.ch>

Hi

Everyone coming to ICANN and in Toronto on Friday 12th is most welcome to attend, so feel free to share.  Registration and program at  http://www.amiando.com/NCUC-ICANN45

Best,

Bill

-----------

NCUC Press Release  -  3 October 2012

Civil Society Leaders Converge in Toronto for "ICANN & Internet Governance: Security and Freedom in a Connected World"

Cyber-Security Expert Ron Deibert and new ICANN CEO Fadi Chehade Address Non-Commercial Users Policy Conference on Eve of ICANN #45
 
Public interest groups involved in ICANN will gather for the event, "ICANN & Internet Governance: Security & Freedom in a Connected World" on Friday 12 October at the Fairmont Royal York Hotel in Toronto, Canada. Sponsored by the Noncommercial Users Constituency (NCUC), the voice of civil society in ICANN, the policy conference will focus on key ICANN policy issues like the need to promote both cyber-security and human rights in the development of global Internet policies.   The event kicks-off with a morning address from cyber-security expert Ron Deibert, Director of the Canada Centre for Global Security Studies and The Citizen Lab, an inter-disciplinary research and development hothouse at the University of Toronto.  Deibert will address the need to establish a cyber-security strategy for global civil society.  

"Cyberspace is at a watershed moment.  Global civil society, now increasingly recognised as an important stakeholder in cyberspace governance, needs to step up to the challenge," said Deibert.  "What is required is nothing less than a serious and comprehensive  security strategy for cyberspace that addresses  the very real threats that plague governments and corporations, addresses national and other security  concerns in a forthright manner, while protecting  and preserving open networks of information and communication."
 
The afternoon sessions begin with welcoming remarks from Fadi Chehade, ICANN's new Chief Executive Officer, a Lebanese-Egyptian IT entrepreneur, who took the helm of ICANN last month and pronounced he was committed to strengthening the multi-stakeholder process of Internet governance.  Additional speakers at NCUC's policy conference include Fionna Alexander from the U.S. Commerce Department and other governmental representatives.  The all-day event's four panel sessions include participation from ICANN board members and senior staff, civil society and Internet business leaders.  
 
The conference will explore a broad range of ICANN policy issues including privacy concerns related to the whois policy that requires the publication of registrants' personal data and discussion of ongoing negotiations with law enforcement agencies regarding a related policy that privacy authorities have called "unlawful".  The geopolitical landscape of Internet governance models and the shifting role of stakeholders will be addressed by experts from around the world.  NCUC's conference will also explore policy issues related to controversial new domain names such as protection for freedom of expression in the face of cultural differences and sensitivities.   Concerns about intellectual property rights and new top-level domain names remains an area under rapid development and will be ripe for discussion as well as activities related to extra-territorial domain name seizures.  Including human rights principles in ICANN policy development will be considered, in addition to ways civil society can become involved in the development of ICANN policies, which impact Internet users worldwide.
 
NCUC represents more than 250 noncommercial organizations and individuals from around the world on ICANN policy matters and was formed in 1999 in Berlin at one of ICANN's earliest meetings.   Currently NCUC represents a wide range of non-commercial interests in ICANN policy development including universities and educational institutions, human rights organizations, development, promotion of the arts, children's welfare, scientific research, community networking, and many other non-commercial interests.  NCUC participates at ICANN as a constituency within the Non-Commercial Stakeholder Group (NCSG) and the Generic Names Supporting Organization (GNSO), which makes ICANN policy recommendations and selects board members.     
 
"The conference subtitle recognizes our shared twin goals of security and freedom, and questions to what extent must we sacrifice one for the other," said meeting organizer Robin Gross of NCUC and IP Justice, a civil liberties organization based in San Francisco.  The constituency's 2012 Toronto conference builds on the policy conference NCUC held in 2011 in which craigslist.org founder Craig Newmark addressed the ICANN community in San Francisco.
 
The 2012 conference concludes with an evening reception at the historic Fairmont Royal York overlooking the beautiful Canadian waterfront.  The event is free to attend and open the public, but advance registration is required because space is limited.  NCUC's conference is held with support from the Brazilian Internet Steering Registry CGI.br, the Public Interest Registry (PIR), and ICANN.   Civil Society event partners include The Citizen Lab, the Association for Progressive Communications (APC) and the Canadian Internet Policy and Public Interest Clinic (CIPPIC) based at the University of Ottawa.  

Conference sessions will be audiocast live and archived for later downloading, and remote participation will be available from the event's website via Adobe Connect for those not able to travel to Toronto on 12 October.  
 
For event details including conference schedule, speaker list, remote participation details, and to register to the event:
  http://www.amiando.com/NCUC-ICANN45
 
Contact for more information:
 
Robin Gross, IP Justice
  Email: Robin at ipjustice.org
 
Brenden Keurbis, Internet Governance Project & University of Syracuse
  Email:  bnkuerbi at syr.edu



***************************************************
William J. Drake
International Fellow & Lecturer
Media Change & Innovation Division, IPMZ
University of Zurich, Switzerland
william.drake at uzh.ch
www.williamdrake.org
****************************************************

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121004/c476c653/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From jeremy at ciroap.org  Thu Oct  4 02:36:21 2012
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2012 14:36:21 +0800
Subject: [governance] IGF Community Site updated for Baku
Message-ID: <506D2E65.5090104@ciroap.org>

Some of you may remember the IGF Community Site at
http://igf-online.net, which since 2007 has been the only volunteer-run
community portal for IGF participants.  It continues to offer facilities
that don't exist on the official website, and which are freely available
for anyone to use.

Its most useful facility is a page for each and every IGF event, which
contains a link to a dedicated chatroom and wiki page for the event,
lists the hashtags to be used on other social media sites (with a
one-click Twitter search), and provides the ability for participants to
leave links and comments.

In addition there is a subscribable calendar, a community wiki,
community blog, feed aggregation, chat server, and a multilingual,
embeddable menu bar that links all the official and community IGF
resources together.  All the software used to provide this is 100% free
and open source.

Here is a quick walkthrough which highlights the features of the site:

 1. Begin at http://igf-online.net/.  The menu bar that runs across the
    top links you to all the official and community resources you need
    for IGF 2012.  If it's not in your preferred language, try switching
    to French, Spanish or Russian from the Language menu.
 2. Click "Calendar", which will take you to the IGF week by default. 
    If you like, switch from "Week" to "Day" view using the controls on
    the right hand side.  You can subscribe to the calendar in software
    such as iCal, Google Calendar or Sunbird using the "Subscribe" link.
 3. Click on any event displayed in the calendar, then click again on
    the link in the small window that opens up, to load up a blog page
    for that event.  As you'll see, listed here are the official
    workshop description, links to the wiki and chat pages for the
    event, and its hashtags.
 4. You can contribute information about the event (such as a report,
    feedback, or questions) by simply replying to the event blog post,
    or by editing the linked wiki page.  (If you want to be sure the
    event organisers see what you write, drop them an email pointing
    them to it too.)
 5. In either case, you'll need to log in to the blog or wiki before
    posting to it.  The easiest way to do that is with an OpenID.  If
    you have a Google or Yahoo account, you already have an OpenID!  If
    not, there are many places to sign up for one - see
    http://openid.net/get-an-openid.
 6. If you have a blog of your own, drop me a link to it - I'll add it
    to the aggregated RSS feed which is available under the "Feeds" link
    from the "Info/Wiki" menu bar.  If you don't have one, blog on the
    Community Site itself!  Just click "+ New" at the top of the page
    once logged in.

I hope that this has given you a flavour for just how useful this
resource can be - and it will only become more useful as more people
begin to use it.  So please also blog, tweet, link to and tell as many
people as you can about the IGF Community Site.  Hope to see your
contributions there soon!

-- 

*Dr Jeremy Malcolm
Senior Policy Officer
Consumers International | the global campaigning voice for consumers*
Office for Asia-Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

*Your rights, our mission – download CI's Strategy 2015:*
http://consint.info/RightsMission

@Consumers_Int | www.consumersinternational.org
<http://www.consumersinternational.org> |
www.facebook.com/consumersinternational
<http://www.facebook.com/consumersinternational>

Read our email confidentiality notice
<http://www.consumersinternational.org/email-confidentiality>. Don't
print this email unless necessary.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121004/125f94f6/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 02:41:48 2012
From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 18:41:48 +1200
Subject: [governance] IGF Community Site updated for Baku
In-Reply-To: <506D2E65.5090104@ciroap.org>
References: <506D2E65.5090104@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <CAJwbTiC07HXrBvCnTMd2zEaW4XF1e820y5yx1CeeGhJiXYu9cQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Jeremy. :)

On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 6:36 PM, Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org> wrote:

>  Some of you may remember the IGF Community Site at http://igf-online.net,
> which since 2007 has been the only volunteer-run community portal for IGF
> participants.  It continues to offer facilities that don't exist on the
> official website, and which are freely available for anyone to use.
>
> Its most useful facility is a page for each and every IGF event, which
> contains a link to a dedicated chatroom and wiki page for the event, lists
> the hashtags to be used on other social media sites (with a one-click
> Twitter search), and provides the ability for participants to leave links
> and comments.
>
> In addition there is a subscribable calendar, a community wiki, community
> blog, feed aggregation, chat server, and a multilingual, embeddable menu
> bar that links all the official and community IGF resources together.  All
> the software used to provide this is 100% free and open source.
>
> Here is a quick walkthrough which highlights the features of the site:
>
>    1. Begin at http://igf-online.net/.  The menu bar that runs across the
>    top links you to all the official and community resources you need for IGF
>    2012.  If it's not in your preferred language, try switching to French,
>    Spanish or Russian from the Language menu.
>    2. Click "Calendar", which will take you to the IGF week by default.
>    If you like, switch from "Week" to "Day" view using the controls on the
>    right hand side.  You can subscribe to the calendar in software such as
>    iCal, Google Calendar or Sunbird using the "Subscribe" link.
>    3. Click on any event displayed in the calendar, then click again on
>    the link in the small window that opens up, to load up a blog page for that
>    event.  As you'll see, listed here are the official workshop description,
>    links to the wiki and chat pages for the event, and its hashtags.
>    4. You can contribute information about the event (such as a report,
>    feedback, or questions) by simply replying to the event blog post, or by
>    editing the linked wiki page.  (If you want to be sure the event organisers
>    see what you write, drop them an email pointing them to it too.)
>    5. In either case, you'll need to log in to the blog or wiki before
>    posting to it.  The easiest way to do that is with an OpenID.  If you have
>    a Google or Yahoo account, you already have an OpenID!  If not, there are
>    many places to sign up for one - see http://openid.net/get-an-openid.
>    6. If you have a blog of your own, drop me a link to it - I'll add it
>    to the aggregated RSS feed which is available under the "Feeds" link from
>    the "Info/Wiki" menu bar.  If you don't have one, blog on the Community
>    Site itself!  Just click "+ New" at the top of the page once logged in.
>
> I hope that this has given you a flavour for just how useful this resource
> can be - and it will only become more useful as more people begin to use
> it.  So please also blog, tweet, link to and tell as many people as you can
> about the IGF Community Site.  Hope to see your contributions there soon!
>
> --
>
> *Dr Jeremy Malcolm
> Senior Policy Officer
> Consumers International | the global campaigning voice for consumers*
> Office for Asia-Pacific and the Middle East
> Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
> Malaysia
> Tel: +60 3 7726 1599
>
> *Your rights, our mission – download CI's Strategy 2015:*
> http://consint.info/RightsMission
>
> @Consumers_Int | www.consumersinternational.org |
> www.facebook.com/consumersinternational
>
> Read our email confidentiality notice<http://www.consumersinternational.org/email-confidentiality>.
> Don't print this email unless necessary.
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
P.O. Box 17862
Suva
Fiji

Twitter: @SalanietaT
Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121004/57244871/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From nne75 at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  4 04:02:15 2012
From: nne75 at yahoo.com (Nnenna)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 01:02:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [governance] Africa Interne Governance Forum: Live broadcasts and
 remote participation
Message-ID: <1349337735.22538.YahooMailNeo@web120101.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>


On Twitter: #afigf
Video and audio:  bambuser.com/v/3033642

Best 

Nnenna
 


Nnenna  Nwakanma |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG  |  Consultants
Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development
Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471 |Mob. 07416820
Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065| http://www.nnenna.org 
nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 | nnennaorg.blogspot.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121004/42d2bdd0/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From b.schombe at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 06:36:33 2012
From: b.schombe at gmail.com (Baudouin SCHOMBE)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 12:36:33 +0200
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHj_20jHu=WdDsYa4x5R2tHb6a_5JMowhOWFy-DcXeFxVducVA@mail.gmail.com>

+1

SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN

Téléphone mobile:+243998983491
email                  : b.schombe at gmail.com
skype                 : b.schombe
blog                    : http://akimambo.unblog.fr
Site Web             : www.ticafrica.net





2012/10/2 Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org>

> Dear list,
>
> We need to select Civil Society speakers for the Baku Main session,
> I think one for the opening and another for the closing session.
>
> Please send your suggestions and nominations asap.
>
> izumi
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121004/3e76067d/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From divina.meigs at orange.fr  Thu Oct  4 06:38:14 2012
From: divina.meigs at orange.fr (Divina MEIGS)
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2012 12:38:14 +0200
Subject: [governance] From NWICO to WSIS: 30 years of communication
 geopolitics
Message-ID: <CC9333B6.36CBC%divina.meigs@orange.fr>

Dear colleagues
Thank you for expressing interest in our publication:  ³From NWICO to WSIS:
30 years of communication geopolitics². As requested, please find attached
the table of contents.
Divina Frau-Meigs
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121004/318e7963/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From williams.deirdre at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 06:41:11 2012
From: williams.deirdre at gmail.com (Deirdre Williams)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 06:41:11 -0400
Subject: [governance] From NWICO to WSIS: 30 years of communication
 geopolitics
In-Reply-To: <CC9333B6.36CBC%divina.meigs@orange.fr>
References: <CC9333B6.36CBC%divina.meigs@orange.fr>
Message-ID: <CAMz5XN6eHs-M6eOpEijPXdA85M6_sEHY4tJ4iXA8WvBi-6FYsw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Divina,
Think you forgot the attachment?
Deirdre

On 4 October 2012 06:38, Divina MEIGS <divina.meigs at orange.fr> wrote:

>  Dear colleagues
> Thank you for expressing interest in our publication:  “From NWICO to
> WSIS: 30 years of communication geopolitics”. As requested, please find
> attached the table of contents.
> Divina Frau-Meigs
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
“The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121004/4ce0015e/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From gurstein at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 08:11:43 2012
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 08:11:43 -0400
Subject: [governance] FW: [OIA] INTERNET 2012 BUS TOUR KICKS OFF -
In-Reply-To: <506D157D.6020708@newnetworks.com>
References: <506D157D.6020708@newnetworks.com>
Message-ID: <087001cda229$85fc3670$91f4a350$@gmail.com>

 

 

From: oia-bounces at lists.bway.net [mailto:oia-bounces at lists.bway.net] On
Behalf Of Bruce Kushnick
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 12:50 AM
To: oia at lists.bway.net
Subject: [OIA] INTERNET 2012 BUS TOUR KICKS OFF -

 

INTERNET 2012 BUS TOUR KICKS OFF -- The Internet Association - the new group
focused on protecting Internet freedom, whose members include Amazon, AOL,
eBay, Expedia, Facebook and Google, among others, has joined up with Reddit
on "Internet 2012," a 10-city bus tour highlighting the impacts of the
Internet on jobs, economic growth, freedom, creativity and prosperity. The
bus tour kicks off today in Denver in conjunction with the presidential
debate, and will make stops in 10 cities on its way to the vice presidential
debate in Danville, Ky. More info: http://bit.ly/T00cbw
<http://go.politicoemail.com/?qs=13aef610d055b0772c954ac826c35a3f939ffb476f8
0af74e1ca37bebb354c07>  

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121004/49b81437/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From apisan at unam.mx  Thu Oct  4 09:07:39 2012
From: apisan at unam.mx (Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 13:07:39 +0000
Subject: [governance] Watching Parminder on TV
Message-ID: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D4841EE1D@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local>

Hi all,

watching Parminder on http://blog.ficci.com/iigc-webcast/1410/ Indian Internet Governance Forum, link thanks to Joly McFie.

Alejandro PIsanty


! !! !!! !!!!
NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO



+52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD

+525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO

SMS +525541444475
     Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico

Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
.  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121004/0e15c9a3/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From David_Allen_AB63 at post.harvard.edu  Thu Oct  4 09:38:11 2012
From: David_Allen_AB63 at post.harvard.edu (David Allen)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 09:38:11 -0400
Subject: [governance] IGF Community Site updated for Baku
In-Reply-To: <506D2E65.5090104@ciroap.org>
References: <506D2E65.5090104@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <5BBAA671-5BC0-4C33-AA73-7A39F7CF06AF@post.harvard.edu>

Again, the greatest congratulations - and thanks - to Jeremy.  The IGF  
Community Site represents, in simple words, an extraordinary amount of  
work.  And, especially, it took really serious talent, to create.

Thanks, Jeremy.  A major contribution to the community.

David

On Oct 4, 2012, at 2:36 AM, Jeremy Malcolm wrote:

> Some of you may remember the IGF Community Site at http://igf-online.net 
> , which since 2007 has been the only volunteer-run community portal  
> for IGF participants.  It continues to offer facilities that don't  
> exist on the official website, and which are freely available for  
> anyone to use.
>
> Its most useful facility is a page for each and every IGF event,  
> which contains a link to a dedicated chatroom and wiki page for the  
> event, lists the hashtags to be used on other social media sites  
> (with a one-click Twitter search), and provides the ability for  
> participants to leave links and comments.
>
> In addition there is a subscribable calendar, a community wiki,  
> community blog, feed aggregation, chat server, and a multilingual,  
> embeddable menu bar that links all the official and community IGF  
> resources together.  All the software used to provide this is 100%  
> free and open source.
>
> Here is a quick walkthrough which highlights the features of the site:
> Begin at http://igf-online.net/.  The menu bar that runs across the  
> top links you to all the official and community resources you need  
> for IGF 2012.  If it's not in your preferred language, try switching  
> to French, Spanish or Russian from the Language menu.
> Click "Calendar", which will take you to the IGF week by default.   
> If you like, switch from "Week" to "Day" view using the controls on  
> the right hand side.  You can subscribe to the calendar in software  
> such as iCal, Google Calendar or Sunbird using the "Subscribe" link.
> Click on any event displayed in the calendar, then click again on  
> the link in the small window that opens up, to load up a blog page  
> for that event.  As you'll see, listed here are the official  
> workshop description, links to the wiki and chat pages for the  
> event, and its hashtags.
> You can contribute information about the event (such as a report,  
> feedback, or questions) by simply replying to the event blog post,  
> or by editing the linked wiki page.  (If you want to be sure the  
> event organisers see what you write, drop them an email pointing  
> them to it too.)
> In either case, you'll need to log in to the blog or wiki before  
> posting to it.  The easiest way to do that is with an OpenID.  If  
> you have a Google or Yahoo account, you already have an OpenID!  If  
> not, there are many places to sign up for one - see http://openid.net/get-an-openid 
> .
> If you have a blog of your own, drop me a link to it - I'll add it  
> to the aggregated RSS feed which is available under the "Feeds" link  
> from the "Info/Wiki" menu bar.  If you don't have one, blog on the  
> Community Site itself!  Just click "+ New" at the top of the page  
> once logged in.
> I hope that this has given you a flavour for just how useful this  
> resource can be - and it will only become more useful as more people  
> begin to use it.  So please also blog, tweet, link to and tell as  
> many people as you can about the IGF Community Site.  Hope to see  
> your contributions there soon!
>
> -- 
> Dr Jeremy Malcolm
> Senior Policy Officer
> Consumers International | the global campaigning voice for consumers
> Office for Asia-Pacific and the Middle East
> Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala  
> Lumpur, Malaysia
> Tel: +60 3 7726 1599
>
> Your rights, our mission – download CI's Strategy 2015: http://consint.info/RightsMission
>
> @Consumers_Int | www.consumersinternational.org | www.facebook.com/consumersinternational
>
> Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless  
> necessary.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121004/031029e7/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From tracyhackshaw at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 09:58:33 2012
From: tracyhackshaw at gmail.com (Tracy F. Hackshaw @ Google)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 09:58:33 -0400
Subject: [governance] IGF Community Site updated for Baku
In-Reply-To: <506D2E65.5090104@ciroap.org>
References: <506D2E65.5090104@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <CAC0JwGNsCp+XRsuwr0dLKHzC1kRLnrTnSOjdxqa36ZZGHTazSA@mail.gmail.com>

This is excellent! Keep up the great work Jeremy!

Rgds,

Tracy

On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 2:36 AM, Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org> wrote:

>  Some of you may remember the IGF Community Site at http://igf-online.net,
> which since 2007 has been the only volunteer-run community portal for IGF
> participants.  It continues to offer facilities that don't exist on the
> official website, and which are freely available for anyone to use.
>
> Its most useful facility is a page for each and every IGF event, which
> contains a link to a dedicated chatroom and wiki page for the event, lists
> the hashtags to be used on other social media sites (with a one-click
> Twitter search), and provides the ability for participants to leave links
> and comments.
>
> In addition there is a subscribable calendar, a community wiki, community
> blog, feed aggregation, chat server, and a multilingual, embeddable menu
> bar that links all the official and community IGF resources together.  All
> the software used to provide this is 100% free and open source.
>
> Here is a quick walkthrough which highlights the features of the site:
>
>    1. Begin at http://igf-online.net/.  The menu bar that runs across the
>    top links you to all the official and community resources you need for IGF
>    2012.  If it's not in your preferred language, try switching to French,
>    Spanish or Russian from the Language menu.
>    2. Click "Calendar", which will take you to the IGF week by default.
>    If you like, switch from "Week" to "Day" view using the controls on the
>    right hand side.  You can subscribe to the calendar in software such as
>    iCal, Google Calendar or Sunbird using the "Subscribe" link.
>    3. Click on any event displayed in the calendar, then click again on
>    the link in the small window that opens up, to load up a blog page for that
>    event.  As you'll see, listed here are the official workshop description,
>    links to the wiki and chat pages for the event, and its hashtags.
>    4. You can contribute information about the event (such as a report,
>    feedback, or questions) by simply replying to the event blog post, or by
>    editing the linked wiki page.  (If you want to be sure the event organisers
>    see what you write, drop them an email pointing them to it too.)
>    5. In either case, you'll need to log in to the blog or wiki before
>    posting to it.  The easiest way to do that is with an OpenID.  If you have
>    a Google or Yahoo account, you already have an OpenID!  If not, there are
>    many places to sign up for one - see http://openid.net/get-an-openid.
>    6. If you have a blog of your own, drop me a link to it - I'll add it
>    to the aggregated RSS feed which is available under the "Feeds" link from
>    the "Info/Wiki" menu bar.  If you don't have one, blog on the Community
>    Site itself!  Just click "+ New" at the top of the page once logged in.
>
> I hope that this has given you a flavour for just how useful this resource
> can be - and it will only become more useful as more people begin to use
> it.  So please also blog, tweet, link to and tell as many people as you can
> about the IGF Community Site.  Hope to see your contributions there soon!
>
> --
>
> *Dr Jeremy Malcolm
> Senior Policy Officer
> Consumers International | the global campaigning voice for consumers*
> Office for Asia-Pacific and the Middle East
> Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
> Malaysia
> Tel: +60 3 7726 1599
>
> *Your rights, our mission – download CI's Strategy 2015:*
> http://consint.info/RightsMission
>
> @Consumers_Int | www.consumersinternational.org |
> www.facebook.com/consumersinternational
>
> Read our email confidentiality notice<http://www.consumersinternational.org/email-confidentiality>.
> Don't print this email unless necessary.
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121004/ff23989a/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From kerry at kdbsystems.com  Thu Oct  4 10:04:50 2012
From: kerry at kdbsystems.com (Kerry Brown)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 14:04:50 +0000
Subject: [governance] 3322.org seized by Microsoft from Chinese DNS
 service provider
In-Reply-To: <CA+EjHYo46VZZhFsu0Jcs_p1R=kAqueQxfCairNsjdx=YkzoS7w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20120923110830.0038af8b@quill.bollow.ch>
 <505FFA29.1040807@digsys.bg>
 <A0615421071EDD4A9F851117D67D538A7EE9E1DC@EXCH01.KDBSystems.local>
 <20120924182922.42d2f72b@quill.bollow.ch>
 <A0615421071EDD4A9F851117D67D538A7EE9E63B@EXCH01.KDBSystems.local>
 <20120924194358.5600c776@quill.bollow.ch>
 <A0615421071EDD4A9F851117D67D538A7EE9E8FC@EXCH01.KDBSystems.local>
 <CAJwbTiDPZUrw52kHKB7QQdMhVEgHp0r1znwe0spKZH50CVtxzA@mail.gmail.com>
 <DE9E11CE-FC08-4E1B-80F4-C59569FED74E@digsys.bg>
 <CA+EjHYo46VZZhFsu0Jcs_p1R=kAqueQxfCairNsjdx=YkzoS7w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A0615421071EDD4A9F851117D67D538A7EEAE800@EXCH01.KDBSystems.local>

An interesting development in this case

http://www.securityweek.com/microsoft-drops-suit-against-nitol-botnet-operator-exchange-cooperation

Microsoft has returned control of authoritative DNS for the domain to the owners and the Chinese CERT is helping to identify and block the domains serving up malware.

Kerry Brown

-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From jpohle at vub.ac.be  Thu Oct  4 10:24:30 2012
From: jpohle at vub.ac.be (Julia Pohle)
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2012 16:24:30 +0200
Subject: [governance] Re: From NWICO to WSIS: 30 years of communication
 geopolitics
In-Reply-To: <CAMz5XN6eHs-M6eOpEijPXdA85M6_sEHY4tJ4iXA8WvBi-6FYsw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CC9333B6.36CBC%divina.meigs@orange.fr> <CAMz5XN6eHs-M6eOpEijPXdA85M6_sEHY4tJ4iXA8WvBi-6FYsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <506D9C1E.8020303@vub.ac.be>

Dear Deirdre,
Divina added the attachment, but it wasn't sent by the list server.
Please find below the table of content and the link to the publisher's 
website.
Best regards,
Julia



http://www.intellectbooks.co.uk/books/view-Book,id=4874/


 From NWICO to WSIS: 30 Years of Communication Geopolitics
Actors and Flows, Structures and Divides.

Edited by
Divina Frau-Meigs, Jérémie Nicey, Michael Palmer, Julia Pohle and 
Patricio Tupper


Two major regulatory activities have framed global media policies since 
World War II: the New World Information and Communication Order (NWICO) 
and the more recent World Summit on the Information Society (WSIS). 
Through extensive research and testimonies from those involved, this 
book presents an in-depth account from the 1970s to the present of the 
major issues concerning information flow in international geopolitics, 
including a look at the negotiations surrounding the major policy 
debates. Few studies of NWICO and WSIS have considered the continuity 
between the two activities – or included in the debate the crucial 
intermediary period between – and this book provides new insight into an 
issue of multilingual and multicultural importance.

PART I: On the Agenda: NWICO

  * Corelations between NWICO and Information Society: Reflections of a
    NWICO actor (Mustapha Masmoudi)
  * The history of NWICO and its lessons (Kaarle Nordenstreng)
  * NWICO: Reuters’ Gerald Long versus UNESCO’s Seán MacBride (Michael
    Palmer)
  * IPS, an alternative source of news: From NWICO to civil society
    (Patricio Tupper)
  * New scenarios for the Right to Communicate in Latin America (Gustavo
    Gonzalez Rodriguez)
  * Past witnesses’ present comments (Hıfzı Topuz)


PART II: Shifting Sands

  * The Right to Communicate – A continuing victim of historic links to
    NWICO and UNESCO? (Alan McKenna)
  * ‘Going Digital’: A historical perspective on early international
    coperation in informatics (Julia Pohle)
  * ICTs, discourse and knowledge societies: Implications for policy and
    practice (Robin Mansell)
  * Past witnesses’ present comments (Alain Modoux)


PART III: Changing the agenda: WSIS and the future

  * Towards Knowledge Societies in UNESCO and beyond (J.P. Singh)
  * The notion of acess to information and knowledge: Challenges and
    divides, sectors and limits (Jérémie Nicey)
  * The international news agencies (and their TV/multimedia sites): The
    defence of their traditional lead in international news production
    (Camille Laville and Michael Palmer)
  * The least imperfect form of global governance yet? Civil society and
    multistakeholder governance of communication (Jeremy Shtern, Normand
    Landry and Marc Raboy)
  * Civil society and the amplification of media governance, during WSIS
    and beyond (Divina Frau-Meigs)
  * Past witnesses’ present comments (Bertrand de La Chapelle)

Postface: From New International Information Order to New Information 
Market Order (Roberto Savio)


Project website with filmed interview excerpts: 
http://nwico2wsis.wordpress.com




_______________________________________________________________
Am 04.10.12 12:41, schrieb Deirdre Williams:
> Dear Divina,
> Think you forgot the attachment?
> Deirdre
>
> On 4 October 2012 06:38, Divina MEIGS <divina.meigs at orange.fr 
> <mailto:divina.meigs at orange.fr>> wrote:
>
>     Dear colleagues
>     Thank you for expressing interest in our publication:  “From NWICO
>     to WSIS: 30 years of communication geopolitics”. As requested,
>     please find attached the table of contents.
>     Divina Frau-Meigs
>
>     ____________________________________________________________
>     You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
>     To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
>     For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>     To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
>     Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> “The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir 
> William Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121004/a89a6c4b/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From riaz.tayob at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 20:02:59 2012
From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob)
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 03:02:59 +0300
Subject: [governance] PUBLISHERS AND GOOGLE REACH SETTLEMENT
In-Reply-To: <506E1FD4.6010305@eff.org>
References: <506E1FD4.6010305@eff.org>
Message-ID: <506E23B3.9090400@gmail.com>



http://www.publishers.org/press/85/



-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From fouadbajwa at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 05:51:25 2012
From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Bajwa)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 14:51:25 +0500
Subject: [governance] US Announces $2.4M In Local Grants To Combat IP Theft
 - ahem, really....
Message-ID: <CAHuaJtMpAUP97wQCH3=rvyeHTNiiRC4-bO4Hm1Gr585CfoGV7w@mail.gmail.com>

US Announces $2.4M In Local Grants To Combat IP Theft

Source: http://www.ip-watch.org/2012/10/04/us-announces-2-4m-in-local-grants-to-combat-ip-theft/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=alerts

-- 
Regards.
--------------------------
FoooOOOOOooooOOOO

-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From charityg at diplomacy.edu  Fri Oct  5 15:13:36 2012
From: charityg at diplomacy.edu (Charity Gamboa)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 14:13:36 -0500
Subject: [governance] Symantec Report
In-Reply-To: <CABDWBFpX2a8R_tdskekaQ3v+ObzE=nt+cj=AoGJqcqyvsFwwVQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABDWBFpX2a8R_tdskekaQ3v+ObzE=nt+cj=AoGJqcqyvsFwwVQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABDWBFqreNd8KEfQDhVSCEy7HA=BjmVHFRiXb35uwHTVPF4aHg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I attended a Symantec Security workshop/lecture at Texas Tech University
last Thursday.  The following report was presented by Nivk L. Kael, Senior
Principal Security Strategist. Here are a few things I was able to note
down:

**Mr. Kael started by saying that there is a large number of hacking in
universities globally.  The main reason for this is selling everyone's
information (Identity Theft). It might be old news but the reason behind it
is money.

**There were 5.5 billion attacks in 2011 compared to 3 billion attacks in
2010.

**Number in spamming dropped to 6.2 million in 2011 compared to 2010's 4.2
million - but that's just to say that anybody shouldn't be fooled by that
number.

**There were 403 million malware in 2011 compared to 2010's 28.6 million.

**There were 55,294 malicious domains in 2011 versus 42,296 in 2010.

**There were 315 million MOBILE vulnerabilities in 2011 versus 163 million
in 2010.

**It was noted that the US and China topped first and second, respectively,
on malicious activity by source overall.

**The following sites were cosnidered vulnerable to a lot of malicious
attacks:
    1. religious/ideologies
    2. hosting/personal sites
    3. pornography
    4. entertainment/music
    5. economy
    6. technology/computer/Internet
    7. travel
    8. sports
    9. automobile
   10. shopping

**Malware will continue to rise because cybercriminals are taking advantage
of social media. Social media is viral in nature and people are less
suspicious of content from friends.

**QR codes are being used as an attack tool aka attack tagging - usually
deliver trojans and other malware. Read more about the Jester hacker.

**Symantec did a study called "Project Honey Stick" where they left iphones
intentionally in several cities like Los Angeles, San Francisco and
Washington D.C. Symantec tracked the phone's activities. They found out
that only 50% tried or even attempted to return; and 96% attempted personal
and app access.

**Be careful of the wifi pineapple.

**It took Symantec 18 seconds to hack an Android phone.


Have a great weekend!


Regards,

Charity Gamboa-Embley
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121005/f4f3af0a/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 16:45:45 2012
From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro)
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 08:45:45 +1200
Subject: [governance] Symantec Report #cyber security
Message-ID: <CAJwbTiDg9FzbFHdvPEoWu167Qpo57+H7qGUg9b+t74dx=hSdPA@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you Charity for taking the time to share your notes with us. :)

On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 7:13 AM, Charity Gamboa <charityg at diplomacy.edu>wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I attended a Symantec Security workshop/lecture at Texas Tech University
> last Thursday.  The following report was presented by Nivk L. Kael, Senior
> Principal Security Strategist. Here are a few things I was able to note
> down:
>
> **Mr. Kael started by saying that there is a large number of hacking in
> universities globally.  The main reason for this is selling everyone's
> information (Identity Theft). It might be old news but the reason behind it
> is money.
>
> **There were 5.5 billion attacks in 2011 compared to 3 billion attacks in
> 2010.
>
> **Number in spamming dropped to 6.2 million in 2011 compared to 2010's 4.2
> million - but that's just to say that anybody shouldn't be fooled by that
> number.
>
> **There were 403 million malware in 2011 compared to 2010's 28.6 million.
>
> **There were 55,294 malicious domains in 2011 versus 42,296 in 2010.
>
> **There were 315 million MOBILE vulnerabilities in 2011 versus 163 million
> in 2010.
>
> **It was noted that the US and China topped first and second,
> respectively, on malicious activity by source overall.
>
> **The following sites were cosnidered vulnerable to a lot of malicious
> attacks:
>     1. religious/ideologies
>     2. hosting/personal sites
>     3. pornography
>     4. entertainment/music
>     5. economy
>     6. technology/computer/Internet
>     7. travel
>     8. sports
>     9. automobile
>    10. shopping
>
> **Malware will continue to rise because cybercriminals are taking
> advantage of social media. Social media is viral in nature and people are
> less suspicious of content from friends.
>
> **QR codes are being used as an attack tool aka attack tagging - usually
> deliver trojans and other malware. Read more about the Jester hacker.
>
> **Symantec did a study called "Project Honey Stick" where they left
> iphones intentionally in several cities like Los Angeles, San Francisco and
> Washington D.C. Symantec tracked the phone's activities. They found out
> that only 50% tried or even attempted to return; and 96% attempted personal
> and app access.
>
> **Be careful of the wifi pineapple.
>
> **It took Symantec 18 seconds to hack an Android phone.
>
>
> Have a great weekend!
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Charity Gamboa-Embley
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
P.O. Box 17862
Suva
Fiji

Twitter: @SalanietaT
Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121006/5c99fb6a/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From charityg at diplomacy.edu  Fri Oct  5 18:21:41 2012
From: charityg at diplomacy.edu (Charity Gamboa)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 17:21:41 -0500
Subject: [governance] Symantec Report #cyber security
In-Reply-To: <CAJwbTiDg9FzbFHdvPEoWu167Qpo57+H7qGUg9b+t74dx=hSdPA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJwbTiDg9FzbFHdvPEoWu167Qpo57+H7qGUg9b+t74dx=hSdPA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABDWBFo+Mj5VbS_Ef2F-HTjPwz-i8GrPd6FTczSG4GjWcKsz9g@mail.gmail.com>

No problem Sala.

Just a correction: **Number in spamming dropped 4.2 million in 2011
compared to 2010's 6.2 million .."

Charity

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 3:45 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <
salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thank you Charity for taking the time to share your notes with us. :)
>
> On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 7:13 AM, Charity Gamboa <charityg at diplomacy.edu>wrote:
>
>>  Hi all,
>>
>> I attended a Symantec Security workshop/lecture at Texas Tech University
>> last Thursday.  The following report was presented by Nivk L. Kael, Senior
>> Principal Security Strategist. Here are a few things I was able to note
>> down:
>>
>> **Mr. Kael started by saying that there is a large number of hacking in
>> universities globally.  The main reason for this is selling everyone's
>> information (Identity Theft). It might be old news but the reason behind it
>> is money.
>>
>> **There were 5.5 billion attacks in 2011 compared to 3 billion attacks in
>> 2010.
>>
>> **Number in spamming dropped to 6.2 million in 2011 compared to 2010's
>> 4.2 million - but that's just to say that anybody shouldn't be fooled by
>> that number.
>>
>> **There were 403 million malware in 2011 compared to 2010's 28.6 million.
>>
>> **There were 55,294 malicious domains in 2011 versus 42,296 in 2010.
>>
>> **There were 315 million MOBILE vulnerabilities in 2011 versus 163
>> million in 2010.
>>
>> **It was noted that the US and China topped first and second,
>> respectively, on malicious activity by source overall.
>>
>> **The following sites were cosnidered vulnerable to a lot of malicious
>> attacks:
>>     1. religious/ideologies
>>     2. hosting/personal sites
>>     3. pornography
>>     4. entertainment/music
>>     5. economy
>>     6. technology/computer/Internet
>>     7. travel
>>     8. sports
>>     9. automobile
>>    10. shopping
>>
>> **Malware will continue to rise because cybercriminals are taking
>> advantage of social media. Social media is viral in nature and people are
>> less suspicious of content from friends.
>>
>> **QR codes are being used as an attack tool aka attack tagging - usually
>> deliver trojans and other malware. Read more about the Jester hacker.
>>
>> **Symantec did a study called "Project Honey Stick" where they left
>> iphones intentionally in several cities like Los Angeles, San Francisco and
>> Washington D.C. Symantec tracked the phone's activities. They found out
>> that only 50% tried or even attempted to return; and 96% attempted personal
>> and app access.
>>
>> **Be careful of the wifi pineapple.
>>
>> **It took Symantec 18 seconds to hack an Android phone.
>>
>>
>> Have a great weekend!
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Charity Gamboa-Embley
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
> P.O. Box 17862
> Suva
> Fiji
>
> Twitter: @SalanietaT
> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
>
>
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121005/0949e663/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From drc at virtualized.org  Fri Oct  5 19:48:28 2012
From: drc at virtualized.org (David Conrad)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 16:48:28 -0700
Subject: [governance] Symantec Report
In-Reply-To: <CABDWBFqreNd8KEfQDhVSCEy7HA=BjmVHFRiXb35uwHTVPF4aHg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABDWBFpX2a8R_tdskekaQ3v+ObzE=nt+cj=AoGJqcqyvsFwwVQ@mail.gmail.com> <CABDWBFqreNd8KEfQDhVSCEy7HA=BjmVHFRiXb35uwHTVPF4aHg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <640016AA-8A4B-45D9-B3FE-0186F5FD427E@virtualized.org>

Charity,

Thanks for providing your notes.  One question:

On Oct 5, 2012, at 12:13 PM, Charity Gamboa <charityg at diplomacy.edu> wrote:
> **There were 55,294 malicious domains in 2011 versus 42,296 in 2010.

Did Symantec explain what they meant by 'malicious domain'?

Thanks,
-drc


-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 21:07:15 2012
From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro)
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 13:07:15 +1200
Subject: [governance] Readout of Internet Freedom Policy Workshop #US
 #Freedom Online #FoX #FoE
Message-ID: <CAJwbTiC=3bQCpYWFxoGyXonV5vZJ+b46qc09vQiAT=k6kjVffg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear All,
This was a Press Release by the US State Department, I wonder if anyone in
the IGC attended and can give us their take on how it went. Apparently this
is a buildup from the Freedom Online Conference hosted in Kenya recently
Readout of Internet Freedom Policy Workshop

Media Note
Office of the Spokesperson
Washington, DC
October 5, 2012

------------------------------

Over 100 representatives from companies, civil society groups,
universities, and the U.S. Government discussed today’s toughest Internet
freedom challenges at an Internet Freedom Policy Workshop hosted by the
Department of State on Monday, October 1.

Under Secretary of State for Civilian Security, Democracy, and Human Rights
Maria Otero underscored the principle of openness by emphasizing the need
to preserve the involvement of all stakeholders – the private sector, civil
society, governments and others – in the future of Internet policy.
Assistant Secretary Michael Posner facilitated a discussion on how to
incorporate freedom of expression and privacy into Internet policy
discussions with developing nations. Christopher Painter, Coordinator for
Cyber Issues, spoke to U.S. advances promoting Internet freedom as part its
comprehensive international cyber policy strategy.

Under Secretary of State for Economic Growth, Energy, and the Environment
Bob Hormats noted the importance of the upcoming World Conference on
International Telecommunications negotiations for the preservation of
Internet openness. He also encouraged U.S. companies to seek export
licenses for certain connective technologies that can help the people of
Syria, Iran, and other sanctioned countries to better communicate with each
other and the outside world.

Workshop participants discussed how to reconcile the goal of promoting
Internet and mobile phone connectivity for people living in repressive
environments, with the goal of denying repressive governments the capacity
to track, monitor, and surveil their own people. Participants also reviewed
practical steps that businesses can take to address their human rights
impacts, including establishing systematic processes for handling human
rights issues, engaging stakeholders before problems arise, and considering
retroactive disclosure of decisions when immediate disclosure is not
possible.

The workshop builds on the accomplishments of the second Coalition for
Freedom Online conference, which coordinates international diplomatic
actions related to Internet freedom, hosted by Kenya on September 6-7. The
Coalition also launched the Digital Defenders Partnership, an unprecedented
collaboration among governments to provide emergency support for Internet
users under threat for peacefully exercising their universal rights through
new technologies. Tunisia announced it would become the Coalition’s 18th state
and host the next conference in 2013.

For more on the U.S. Government’s engagement on Internet freedom, visit
www.humanrights.gov.



PRN: 2012/1604

-- 
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
P.O. Box 17862
Suva
Fiji

Twitter: @SalanietaT
Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121006/d23bc610/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From nhklein at gmx.net  Fri Oct  5 23:01:25 2012
From: nhklein at gmx.net (Norbert Klein)
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2012 10:01:25 +0700
Subject: [governance] Symantec Report #cyber security
In-Reply-To: <CABDWBFo+Mj5VbS_Ef2F-HTjPwz-i8GrPd6FTczSG4GjWcKsz9g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJwbTiDg9FzbFHdvPEoWu167Qpo57+H7qGUg9b+t74dx=hSdPA@mail.gmail.com> <CABDWBFo+Mj5VbS_Ef2F-HTjPwz-i8GrPd6FTczSG4GjWcKsz9g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <506F9F05.4010706@gmx.net>

On 10/6/2012 5:21 AM, Charity Gamboa wrote:
> No problem Sala.
> Just a correction: **Number in spamming dropped 4.2 million in 2011 
> compared to 2010's 6.2 million .."
> Charity

I thought the second part of the sentence was the "explanation" that 
figures are "fallible":

**Number in spamming dropped to 6.2 million in 2011 compared to 2010's 
4.2 million - *but that's just to say that anybody shouldn't be fooled 
by that number.*


Norbert Klein




-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121006/37707431/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From gurstein at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 23:12:36 2012
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 20:12:36 -0700
Subject: [governance] RE: [CommunityInformaticsCanada] NorthwesTel ... a
 corporate banana republic embedded in the northern economy....
In-Reply-To: <7f5ea64e9a7672939e740ecfa5229294.squirrel@www.flymail.web.ca>
References: <7f5ea64e9a7672939e740ecfa5229294.squirrel@www.flymail.web.ca>
Message-ID: <007e01cda370$83f94af0$8bebe0d0$@gmail.com>

Maybe some lessons for other jurisdictions?

M

-----Original Message-----
From: cracin-canada-owner at vancouvercommunity.net
[mailto:cracin-canada-owner at vancouvercommunity.net] On Behalf Of
media at web.net
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 1:23 PM
To: L-CRACIN L-CRACIN
Subject: [CommunityInformaticsCanada] NorthwesTel ... a corporate banana
republic embedded in the northern economy....

"The sordid details of last week's telecommunications breakdown are well
known, so I won't bore you with their goriness.

Suffice to say the Yukon was dead in the water for a day, not only from a
telecommunications perspective but, more importantly, from an economic
perspective.

Offices and businesses were unable to work. Stores were unable to sell.
Money just stopped moving in the Yukon, or worse, it turned to smoke as
thousands of workers sat idly by waiting for the problem to be resolved.

In short, there were significant economic losses for the Yukon. There's no
official estimate but I think it's safe to hazard a guess in the hundreds of
thousands of dollars range.

And our government couldn't do anything about it, other than sit around like
the rest of us and wait for it to be fixed.

Now that's a far cry from what happened when the roads washed out earlier
this year. Government road crews took what some describe as heroic actions
to fix highways to get traffic - and the economy - moving again.

Telecommunications is every bit as important to our economy as other
utilities like roads, arguably even more so.... the responsibility for
telecommunications in the North belongs to just one privately-held company
that is the business equivalent of Honduras - a corporate banana republic
embedded in the northern economy. ... And the key problem with that is
accountability. NorthwesTel doesn't have to answer to you or me or the Yukon
government. NorthwesTel only answers to its corporate master, Bell.
..."
FULL STORY
http://yukon-news.com/opinions/columns/30392/#.UG3stV8XNa8.twitter



-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From bavouc at gmail.com  Sat Oct  6 14:15:56 2012
From: bavouc at gmail.com (Martial Bavou[Private Business Account])
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 19:15:56 +0100
Subject: [governance] Symantec Report
In-Reply-To: <CABDWBFqreNd8KEfQDhVSCEy7HA=BjmVHFRiXb35uwHTVPF4aHg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABDWBFpX2a8R_tdskekaQ3v+ObzE=nt+cj=AoGJqcqyvsFwwVQ@mail.gmail.com> <CABDWBFqreNd8KEfQDhVSCEy7HA=BjmVHFRiXb35uwHTVPF4aHg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAANnlFloumCxMuwwBwSZjX53CgAAAEAAAAJIkKNogRC5DovVMiu+k2UYBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>

HI Charity,

 

Thanks sharing this with us, look great, but just few unclear points for me,
what do they mean by:

-          **There were 55,294 malicious domains in 2011 versus 42,296 in
2010.

-          It took Symantec 18 seconds to hack an Android phone.

Thanks

 

From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
[mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Charity Gamboa
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 8:14 PM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
Cc: charity.g.embley at ttu.edu
Subject: [governance] Symantec Report

 

Hi all,

 

I attended a Symantec Security workshop/lecture at Texas Tech University
last Thursday.  The following report was presented by Nivk L. Kael, Senior
Principal Security Strategist. Here are a few things I was able to note
down:

 

**Mr. Kael started by saying that there is a large number of hacking in
universities globally.  The main reason for this is selling everyone's
information (Identity Theft). It might be old news but the reason behind it
is money.

 

**There were 5.5 billion attacks in 2011 compared to 3 billion attacks in
2010.

 

**Number in spamming dropped to 6.2 million in 2011 compared to 2010's 4.2
million - but that's just to say that anybody shouldn't be fooled by that
number.

 

**There were 403 million malware in 2011 compared to 2010's 28.6 million.

 

**There were 55,294 malicious domains in 2011 versus 42,296 in 2010.

 

**There were 315 million MOBILE vulnerabilities in 2011 versus 163 million
in 2010.

 

**It was noted that the US and China topped first and second, respectively,
on malicious activity by source overall. 

 

**The following sites were cosnidered vulnerable to a lot of malicious
attacks:

    1. religious/ideologies

    2. hosting/personal sites

    3. pornography

    4. entertainment/music

    5. economy

    6. technology/computer/Internet

    7. travel

    8. sports

    9. automobile

   10. shopping

 

**Malware will continue to rise because cybercriminals are taking advantage
of social media. Social media is viral in nature and people are less
suspicious of content from friends.

 

**QR codes are being used as an attack tool aka attack tagging - usually
deliver trojans and other malware. Read more about the Jester hacker.

 

**Symantec did a study called "Project Honey Stick" where they left iphones
intentionally in several cities like Los Angeles, San Francisco and
Washington D.C. Symantec tracked the phone's activities. They found out that
only 50% tried or even attempted to return; and 96% attempted personal and
app access.

 

**Be careful of the wifi pineapple.

 

**It took Symantec 18 seconds to hack an Android phone.

 

 

Have a great weekend!

 

 

Regards,

 

Charity Gamboa-Embley

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121006/c541f76d/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From ca at cafonso.ca  Sun Oct  7 12:01:01 2012
From: ca at cafonso.ca (Carlos A. Afonso)
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2012 13:01:01 -0300
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <CAEP5zKRCQX29Ya1kTrzTUxtJNKX_02WHKFbkZCeKqDYbDH5fSw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com> <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br> <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br> <0CB09DB8-E475-4EEB-B1DB-84F1F921071E@privaterra.org> <E8336492-79A8-44F9-B96E-64B4AC9E9774@gmail.com> <506BCAF1.7080504@itforchange.net> <506BCC3A.3080703@itforchange.net> <CAEP5zKRCQX29Ya1kTrzTUxtJNKX_02WHKFbkZCeKqDYbDH5fSw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5071A73D.9060202@cafonso.ca>

Dear people,

I thank everyone who indicated my name (Carlos A. Afonso, "c.a.") as 
speaker, and understand this is an indication for one of two speakers on 
behalf of a stakeholder group.

When I accepted this mission to do a similar speech on Dec.12, 2003, at 
Plenary Session 4 of WSIS in Geneva, we built the speech collectively -- 
not an easy task, we all know!

So, anyone who will be speaking there on our (civil society's) behalf, 
should in my view do the same, voicing a carefully, collectively 
prepared consensus discourse.

fraternal regards

--c.a.

ps: bluntly, I do not feel represented by an American USAID contractor 
living in Washington DC. There several other excellent suggestions.

On 10/03/2012 02:27 AM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar wrote:
> This one? http://www.linkedin.com/in/kpearce
> -C
>
> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 10:55 AM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net
> <mailto:parminder at itforchange.net>> wrote:
>
>
>     On Wednesday 03 October 2012 10:49 AM, parminder wrote:
>>
>>     + 1
>>
>>     The best choice!
>
>     Sorry, no offence intended to anyone but my endorsement was for
>     Carlos Afonso. Apologies once again (I dont know anything about Katy
>     either way) . parminder
>>
>>     On Wednesday 03 October 2012 04:36 AM, Carlos Vera Quintana wrote:
>>>     +1 Carlos from Brazil
>>>
>>>     Enviado desde mi iPhone
>>>
>>>     El 02/10/2012, a las 16:14, Robert Guerra<rguerra at privaterra.org>  <mailto:rguerra at privaterra.org>  escribió:
>>>
>>>>     Colleagues,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     I would like to nominate Katy Pearce as one of the Civil Society experts for the Baku main session.
>>>>
>>>>     Katy is an academic expert who knows the Azerbaijan and the region very well. She knows the country and its dynamics. She's been an excellent resource for those of us who have been wanting to better know and understand Azerbaijan in the lead up to the IGF.
>>>>
>>>>     I recommend her without reservation.Details on her research and work is available at her website:
>>>>
>>>>     http://www.katypearce.net/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     regards
>>>>
>>>>     Robert
>>>>     --
>>>>     R. Guerra
>>>>     Phone/Cell: +1 202-905-2081
>>>>     Twitter:twitter.com/netfreedom  <http://twitter.com/netfreedom>
>>>>     Email:rguerra at privaterra.org  <mailto:rguerra at privaterra.org>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     On 02/10/12 11:45, Izumi AIZU wrote:
>>>>>     Dear list,
>>>>>
>>>>>     We need to select Civil Society speakers for the Baku Main session,
>>>>>     I think one for the opening and another for the closing session.
>>>>>
>>>>>     Please send your suggestions and nominations asap.
>>>>>
>>>>>     izumi
>>>>>
>>>>     ____________________________________________________________
>>>>     You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>>          governance at lists.igcaucus.org  <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
>>>>     To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>>          http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>>
>>>>     For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>>          http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>>>     To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>>          http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>>
>>>>     Translate this email:http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>
>
>     ____________________________________________________________
>     You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
>     To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
>     For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>     To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
>     Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>

-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From jlfullsack at orange.fr  Sun Oct  7 16:08:33 2012
From: jlfullsack at orange.fr (Jean-Louis FULLSACK)
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2012 22:08:33 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <5071A73D.9060202@cafonso.ca>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com>
 <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br> <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br>
 <0CB09DB8-E475-4EEB-B1DB-84F1F921071E@privaterra.org>
 <E8336492-79A8-44F9-B96E-64B4AC9E9774@gmail.com>
 <506BCAF1.7080504@itforchange.net> <506BCC3A.3080703@itforchange.net>
 <CAEP5zKRCQX29Ya1kTrzTUxtJNKX_02WHKFbkZCeKqDYbDH5fSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5071A73D.9060202@cafonso.ca>
Message-ID: <1756018900.91849.1349640513818.JavaMail.www@wwinf1j35>

 You're right, Carlos. I remembrer fairly well these discussions, and the general consens the CS plenary asked for. This is still valid for me. Warm gratulations for your "mandate" and "bonne chance" in Baku ! Jean-Louis Fullsack 




> Message du 07/10/12 18:01
> De : "Carlos A. Afonso" 
> A : governance at lists.igcaucus.org, "Chaitanya Dhareshwar" 
> Copie à : "parminder" 
> Objet : Re: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
> 
> Dear people,
> 
> I thank everyone who indicated my name (Carlos A. Afonso, "c.a.") as 
> speaker, and understand this is an indication for one of two speakers on 
> behalf of a stakeholder group.
> 
> When I accepted this mission to do a similar speech on Dec.12, 2003, at 
> Plenary Session 4 of WSIS in Geneva, we built the speech collectively -- 
> not an easy task, we all know!
> 
> So, anyone who will be speaking there on our (civil society's) behalf, 
> should in my view do the same, voicing a carefully, collectively 
> prepared consensus discourse.
> 
> fraternal regards
> 
> --c.a.
> 
> ps: bluntly, I do not feel represented by an American USAID contractor 
> living in Washington DC. There several other excellent suggestions.
> 
> On 10/03/2012 02:27 AM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar wrote:
> > This one? http://www.linkedin.com/in/kpearce
> > -C
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 10:55 AM, parminder > > > wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Wednesday 03 October 2012 10:49 AM, parminder wrote:
> >>
> >> + 1
> >>
> >> The best choice!
> >
> > Sorry, no offence intended to anyone but my endorsement was for
> > Carlos Afonso. Apologies once again (I dont know anything about Katy
> > either way) . parminder
> >>
> >> On Wednesday 03 October 2012 04:36 AM, Carlos Vera Quintana wrote:
> >>> +1 Carlos from Brazil
> >>>
> >>> Enviado desde mi iPhone
> >>>
> >>> El 02/10/2012, a las 16:14, Robert Guerra escribió:
> >>>
> >>>> Colleagues,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I would like to nominate Katy Pearce as one of the Civil Society experts for the Baku main session.
> >>>>
> >>>> Katy is an academic expert who knows the Azerbaijan and the region very well. She knows the country and its dynamics. She's been an excellent resource for those of us who have been wanting to better know and understand Azerbaijan in the lead up to the IGF.
> >>>>
> >>>> I recommend her without reservation.Details on her research and work is available at her website:
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.katypearce.net/
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> regards
> >>>>
> >>>> Robert
> >>>> --
> >>>> R. Guerra
> >>>> Phone/Cell: +1 202-905-2081
> >>>> Twitter:twitter.com/netfreedom 
> >>>> Email:rguerra at privaterra.org 
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 02/10/12 11:45, Izumi AIZU wrote:
> >>>>> Dear list,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We need to select Civil Society speakers for the Baku Main session,
> >>>>> I think one for the opening and another for the closing session.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Please send your suggestions and nominations asap.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> izumi
> >>>>>
> >>>> ____________________________________________________________
> >>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org 
> >>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
> >>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >>>>
> >>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
> >>>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> >>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >>>>
> >>>> Translate this email:http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >>
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> > governance at lists.igcaucus.org 
> > To be removed from the list, visit:
> > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >
> > For all other list information and functions, see:
> > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> > http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >
> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >
> >
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121007/1ab294c2/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From ca at cafonso.ca  Sun Oct  7 18:11:54 2012
From: ca at cafonso.ca (Carlos A. Afonso)
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2012 19:11:54 -0300
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <1756018900.91849.1349640513818.JavaMail.www@wwinf1j35>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com> <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br> <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br> <0CB09DB8-E475-4EEB-B1DB-84F1F921071E@privaterra.org> <E8336492-79A8-44F9-B96E-64B4AC9E9774@gmail.com> <506BCAF1.7080504@itforchange.net> <506BCC3A.3080703@itforchange.net> <CAEP5zKRCQX29Ya1kTrzTUxtJNKX_02WHKFbkZCeKqDYbDH5fSw@mail.gmail.com> <5071A73D.9060202@cafonso.ca> <1756018900.91849.1349640513818.JavaMail.www@wwinf1j35>
Message-ID: <5071FE2A.10202@cafonso.ca>

Merci, cher Jean-Louis!

--c.a.

On 10/07/2012 05:08 PM, Jean-Louis FULLSACK wrote:
> You're right, Carlos. I remembrer fairly well these discussions, and the
> general consens the CS plenary asked for. This is still valid for me.
> Warm gratulations for your "mandate" and "bonne chance" in Baku !
>
> Jean-Louis Fullsack
>
>
>
>
>      > Message du 07/10/12 18:01
>      > De : "Carlos A. Afonso"
>      > A : governance at lists.igcaucus.org, "Chaitanya Dhareshwar"
>      > Copie à : "parminder"
>      > Objet : Re: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
>      >
>      > Dear people,
>      >
>      > I thank everyone who indicated my name (Carlos A. Afonso, "c.a.") as
>      > speaker, and understand this is an indication for one of two
>     speakers on
>      > behalf of a stakeholder group.
>      >
>      > When I accepted this mission to do a similar speech on Dec.12,
>     2003, at
>      > Plenary Session 4 of WSIS in Geneva, we built the speech
>     collectively --
>      > not an easy task, we all know!
>      >
>      > So, anyone who will be speaking there on our (civil society's)
>     behalf,
>      > should in my view do the same, voicing a carefully, collectively
>      > prepared consensus discourse.
>      >
>      > fraternal regards
>      >
>      > --c.a.
>      >
>      > ps: bluntly, I do not feel represented by an American USAID
>     contractor
>      > living in Washington DC. There several other excellent suggestions.
>      >
>      > On 10/03/2012 02:27 AM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar wrote:
>      > > This one? http://www.linkedin.com/in/kpearce
>      > > -C
>      > >
>      > > On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 10:55 AM, parminder > > > wrote:
>      > >
>      > >
>      > > On Wednesday 03 October 2012 10:49 AM, parminder wrote:
>      > >>
>      > >> + 1
>      > >>
>      > >> The best choice!
>      > >
>      > > Sorry, no offence intended to anyone but my endorsement was for
>      > > Carlos Afonso. Apologies once again (I dont know anything about
>     Katy
>      > > either way) . parminder
>      > >>
>      > >> On Wednesday 03 October 2012 04:36 AM, Carlos Vera Quintana wrote:
>      > >>> +1 Carlos from Brazil
>      > >>>
>      > >>> Enviado desde mi iPhone
>      > >>>
>      > >>> El 02/10/2012, a las 16:14, Robert Guerra escribió:
>      > >>>
>      > >>>> Colleagues,
>      > >>>>
>      > >>>>
>      > >>>> I would like to nominate Katy Pearce as one of the Civil
>     Society experts for the Baku main session.
>      > >>>>
>      > >>>> Katy is an academic expert who knows the Azerbaijan and the
>     region very well. She knows the country and its dynamics. She's been
>     an excellent resource for those of us who have been wanting to
>     better know and understand Azerbaijan in the lead up to the IGF.
>      > >>>>
>      > >>>> I recommend her without reservation.Details on her research
>     and work is available at her website:
>      > >>>>
>      > >>>> http://www.katypearce.net/
>      > >>>>
>      > >>>>
>      > >>>> regards
>      > >>>>
>      > >>>> Robert
>      > >>>> --
>      > >>>> R. Guerra
>      > >>>> Phone/Cell: +1 202-905-2081
>      > >>>> Twitter:twitter.com/netfreedom
>      > >>>> Email:rguerra at privaterra.org
>      > >>>>
>      > >>>>
>      > >>>>
>      > >>>> On 02/10/12 11:45, Izumi AIZU wrote:
>      > >>>>> Dear list,
>      > >>>>>
>      > >>>>> We need to select Civil Society speakers for the Baku Main
>     session,
>      > >>>>> I think one for the opening and another for the closing
>     session.
>      > >>>>>
>      > >>>>> Please send your suggestions and nominations asap.
>      > >>>>>
>      > >>>>> izumi
>      > >>>>>
>      > >>>> ____________________________________________________________
>      > >>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      > >>>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>      > >>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      > >>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>      > >>>>
>      > >>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      > >>>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>      > >>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      > >>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/
>      > >>>>
>      > >>>> Translate this email:http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>      > >>
>      > >
>      > >
>      > > ____________________________________________________________
>      > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      > > governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>      > > To be removed from the list, visit:
>      > > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>      > >
>      > > For all other list information and functions, see:
>      > > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>      > > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      > > http://www.igcaucus.org/
>      > >
>      > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>      > >
>      > >
>      >
>      > ____________________________________________________________
>      > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      > governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>      > To be removed from the list, visit:
>      > http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>      >
>      > For all other list information and functions, see:
>      > http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>      > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      > http://www.igcaucus.org/
>      >
>      > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>      >
>

-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com  Mon Oct  8 04:21:33 2012
From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 20:21:33 +1200
Subject: [governance] Verisign's Patent Application for the Transfer of
 DNSSEC Domains
Message-ID: <CAJwbTiBm24HvNFFqFKDPerUZkMKG5dvFCoLkc1X65uqEDCBnFw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear All,

See the Application via
http://domainnamewire.com/wp-content/verisign-dnssec.pdf

Kind Regards,

-- 
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
P.O. Box 17862
Suva
Fiji

Twitter: @SalanietaT
Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121008/d0a7df5b/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com  Mon Oct  8 05:02:26 2012
From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 21:02:26 +1200
Subject: [governance] Re: Verisign's Patent Application for the Transfer of
 DNSSEC Domains
In-Reply-To: <CAJwbTiBm24HvNFFqFKDPerUZkMKG5dvFCoLkc1X65uqEDCBnFw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJwbTiBm24HvNFFqFKDPerUZkMKG5dvFCoLkc1X65uqEDCBnFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJwbTiAMRJ+jm25ub-WX1cVPrka5HH1Y9hBmJyvkGHu8N=RbuA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear All,

I forgot to say that it reminds me of what the Director General of WIPO had
mentioned in relation to patenting the internet which was reported exactly
this time last year, see:
http://boingboing.net/2011/10/08/wipo-boss-the-web-would-have-been-better-if-it-was-patented-and-its-users-had-to-pay-license-fees.html

Sala


On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 8:21 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <
salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> See the Application via
> http://domainnamewire.com/wp-content/verisign-dnssec.pdf
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> --
> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
> P.O. Box 17862
> Suva
> Fiji
>
> Twitter: @SalanietaT
> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
P.O. Box 17862
Suva
Fiji

Twitter: @SalanietaT
Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121008/8e13fb3a/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From mueller at syr.edu  Mon Oct  8 10:05:50 2012
From: mueller at syr.edu (Milton L Mueller)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 14:05:50 +0000
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <5071A73D.9060202@cafonso.ca>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com>
 <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br> <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br>
 <0CB09DB8-E475-4EEB-B1DB-84F1F921071E@privaterra.org>
 <E8336492-79A8-44F9-B96E-64B4AC9E9774@gmail.com>
 <506BCAF1.7080504@itforchange.net> <506BCC3A.3080703@itforchange.net>
 <CAEP5zKRCQX29Ya1kTrzTUxtJNKX_02WHKFbkZCeKqDYbDH5fSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5071A73D.9060202@cafonso.ca>
Message-ID: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD224B39A@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>

Hurrah for Carlos, for this statesmanlike approach. 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-
> request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Carlos A. Afonso
> Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2012 12:01 PM
> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Chaitanya Dhareshwar
> Cc: parminder
> Subject: Re: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
> 
> Dear people,
> 
> I thank everyone who indicated my name (Carlos A. Afonso, "c.a.") as
> speaker, and understand this is an indication for one of two speakers on
> behalf of a stakeholder group.
> 
> When I accepted this mission to do a similar speech on Dec.12, 2003, at
> Plenary Session 4 of WSIS in Geneva, we built the speech collectively --
> not an easy task, we all know!
> 
> So, anyone who will be speaking there on our (civil society's) behalf,
> should in my view do the same, voicing a carefully, collectively
> prepared consensus discourse.
> 
> fraternal regards
> 
> --c.a.
> 
> ps: bluntly, I do not feel represented by an American USAID contractor
> living in Washington DC. There several other excellent suggestions.
> 
> On 10/03/2012 02:27 AM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar wrote:
> > This one? http://www.linkedin.com/in/kpearce
> > -C
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 10:55 AM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net
> > <mailto:parminder at itforchange.net>> wrote:
> >
> >
> >     On Wednesday 03 October 2012 10:49 AM, parminder wrote:
> >>
> >>     + 1
> >>
> >>     The best choice!
> >
> >     Sorry, no offence intended to anyone but my endorsement was for
> >     Carlos Afonso. Apologies once again (I dont know anything about Katy
> >     either way) . parminder
> >>
> >>     On Wednesday 03 October 2012 04:36 AM, Carlos Vera Quintana wrote:
> >>>     +1 Carlos from Brazil
> >>>
> >>>     Enviado desde mi iPhone
> >>>
> >>>     El 02/10/2012, a las 16:14, Robert Guerra<rguerra at privaterra.org>
> <mailto:rguerra at privaterra.org>  escribió:
> >>>
> >>>>     Colleagues,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>     I would like to nominate Katy Pearce as one of the Civil Society
> experts for the Baku main session.
> >>>>
> >>>>     Katy is an academic expert who knows the Azerbaijan and the region
> very well. She knows the country and its dynamics. She's been an excellent
> resource for those of us who have been wanting to better know and
> understand Azerbaijan in the lead up to the IGF.
> >>>>
> >>>>     I recommend her without reservation.Details on her research and
> work is available at her website:
> >>>>
> >>>>     http://www.katypearce.net/
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>     regards
> >>>>
> >>>>     Robert
> >>>>     --
> >>>>     R. Guerra
> >>>>     Phone/Cell: +1 202-905-2081
> >>>>     Twitter:twitter.com/netfreedom  <http://twitter.com/netfreedom>
> >>>>     Email:rguerra at privaterra.org  <mailto:rguerra at privaterra.org>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>     On 02/10/12 11:45, Izumi AIZU wrote:
> >>>>>     Dear list,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     We need to select Civil Society speakers for the Baku Main session,
> >>>>>     I think one for the opening and another for the closing session.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     Please send your suggestions and nominations asap.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     izumi
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> __________________________________________________________
> __
> >>>>     You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>>>          governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
> >>>>     To be removed from the list, visit:
> >>>>          http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >>>>
> >>>>     For all other list information and functions, see:
> >>>>          http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> >>>>     To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >>>>          http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >>>>
> >>>>     Translate this email:http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> __________________________________________________________
> __
> >     You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >     governance at lists.igcaucus.org <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
> >     To be removed from the list, visit:
> >     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >
> >     For all other list information and functions, see:
> >     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> >     To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >
> >     Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >
> >

-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From mueller at syr.edu  Mon Oct  8 10:12:31 2012
From: mueller at syr.edu (Milton L Mueller)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 14:12:31 +0000
Subject: [governance] Symantec Report #cyber security
In-Reply-To: <CABDWBFo+Mj5VbS_Ef2F-HTjPwz-i8GrPd6FTczSG4GjWcKsz9g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJwbTiDg9FzbFHdvPEoWu167Qpo57+H7qGUg9b+t74dx=hSdPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABDWBFo+Mj5VbS_Ef2F-HTjPwz-i8GrPd6FTczSG4GjWcKsz9g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD224B3AD@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>

Remember that estimates (and they are _estimates_) of the "growth" of such things as "the number of attacks" or "malicious domains" needs to take into account the growth of the number of Internet users and growth in the number of devices connected to the internet.

The fact that US and China top the list of malicious activity, probably has something to do with the fact that China and the US are #1 and #2 in the number of Internet users.


From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Charity Gamboa
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 6:22 PM
To: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro
Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
Subject: Re: [governance] Symantec Report #cyber security

No problem Sala.

Just a correction: **Number in spamming dropped 4.2 million in 2011 compared to 2010's 6.2 million .."

Charity

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 3:45 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com<mailto:salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com>> wrote:
Thank you Charity for taking the time to share your notes with us. :)
On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 7:13 AM, Charity Gamboa <charityg at diplomacy.edu<mailto:charityg at diplomacy.edu>> wrote:
Hi all,

I attended a Symantec Security workshop/lecture at Texas Tech University last Thursday.  The following report was presented by Nivk L. Kael, Senior Principal Security Strategist. Here are a few things I was able to note down:

**Mr. Kael started by saying that there is a large number of hacking in universities globally.  The main reason for this is selling everyone's information (Identity Theft). It might be old news but the reason behind it is money.

**There were 5.5 billion attacks in 2011 compared to 3 billion attacks in 2010.

**Number in spamming dropped to 6.2 million in 2011 compared to 2010's 4.2 million - but that's just to say that anybody shouldn't be fooled by that number.

**There were 403 million malware in 2011 compared to 2010's 28.6 million.

**There were 55,294 malicious domains in 2011 versus 42,296 in 2010.

**There were 315 million MOBILE vulnerabilities in 2011 versus 163 million in 2010.

**It was noted that the US and China topped first and second, respectively, on malicious activity by source overall.

**The following sites were cosnidered vulnerable to a lot of malicious attacks:
    1. religious/ideologies
    2. hosting/personal sites
    3. pornography
    4. entertainment/music
    5. economy
    6. technology/computer/Internet
    7. travel
    8. sports
    9. automobile
   10. shopping

**Malware will continue to rise because cybercriminals are taking advantage of social media. Social media is viral in nature and people are less suspicious of content from friends.

**QR codes are being used as an attack tool aka attack tagging - usually deliver trojans and other malware. Read more about the Jester hacker.

**Symantec did a study called "Project Honey Stick" where they left iphones intentionally in several cities like Los Angeles, San Francisco and Washington D.C. Symantec tracked the phone's activities. They found out that only 50% tried or even attempted to return; and 96% attempted personal and app access.

**Be careful of the wifi pineapple.

**It took Symantec 18 seconds to hack an Android phone.


Have a great weekend!


Regards,

Charity Gamboa-Embley


____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org<mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t



--
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
P.O. Box 17862
Suva
Fiji

Twitter: @SalanietaT
Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851<tel:%2B679%20998%202851>





-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121008/957901a4/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From pouzin at well.com  Mon Oct  8 11:44:09 2012
From: pouzin at well.com (Louis Pouzin (well))
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 17:44:09 +0200
Subject: [governance] Symantec Report #cyber security
In-Reply-To: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD224B3AD@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
References: <CAJwbTiDg9FzbFHdvPEoWu167Qpo57+H7qGUg9b+t74dx=hSdPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABDWBFo+Mj5VbS_Ef2F-HTjPwz-i8GrPd6FTczSG4GjWcKsz9g@mail.gmail.com> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD224B3AD@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <CA+EjHYp+Yo3MbX=GYoJPa3Ad6p1fNbBiTAETgSSXkNzSSD5qGg@mail.gmail.com>

+1

On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 4:12 PM, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu> wrote:

>  Remember that estimates (and they are _estimates_) of the "growth" of
> such things as "the number of attacks" or "malicious domains" needs to take
> into account the growth of the number of Internet users and growth in the
> number of devices connected to the internet. ****
>
> ** **
>
> The fact that US and China top the list of malicious activity, probably
> has something to do with the fact that China and the US are #1 and #2 in
> the number of Internet users. ****
>
> ** **
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121008/5507d2a1/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From kerry at kdbsystems.com  Mon Oct  8 11:52:20 2012
From: kerry at kdbsystems.com (Kerry Brown)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 15:52:20 +0000
Subject: [governance] Verisign's Patent Application for the Transfer of
 DNSSEC Domains
In-Reply-To: <CAJwbTiBm24HvNFFqFKDPerUZkMKG5dvFCoLkc1X65uqEDCBnFw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJwbTiBm24HvNFFqFKDPerUZkMKG5dvFCoLkc1X65uqEDCBnFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A0615421071EDD4A9F851117D67D538A7EEC935A@EXCH01.KDBSystems.local>

I don't know enough about patent law to know how broad the implications of this are. If this application is successful would it apply to all transfers of DNSSEC enabled domains?

Kerry Brown

From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro
Sent: October-08-12 1:22 AM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
Subject: [governance] Verisign's Patent Application for the Transfer of DNSSEC Domains

Dear All,

See the Application via http://domainnamewire.com/wp-content/verisign-dnssec.pdf

Kind Regards,

--
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
P.O. Box 17862
Suva
Fiji

Twitter: @SalanietaT
Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851




-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121008/7bffcf0b/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com  Tue Oct  9 02:57:55 2012
From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 09:57:55 +0300
Subject: [governance] Arab IGF I Day I
Message-ID: <CABBOhxpX076NjdmB6JoU+5jLcz9-pKsoSGqzBLEbDVoYpqTWVQ@mail.gmail.com>

Colleagues, for those interested in attending the inaugural Arab IGF in
Kuwait can do so online at http://arabigf.kits.org.kw/livestream/. Today is
day I, and will run until Thursday.

Fahd
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121009/75075585/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From karim.attoumanimohamed at ties.itu.int  Tue Oct  9 06:32:00 2012
From: karim.attoumanimohamed at ties.itu.int (karim.attoumanimohamed at ties.itu.int)
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2012 12:32:00 +0200
Subject: [governance] Fwd: WCIT-12 Briefing session for Civil Society
 Stakeholders and other interested parties
Message-ID: <20121009123200.16776sjocpmnwk68@mail1.itu.ch>

Dear all,
My apology for cross posting if you already received this link.
Thanks

Karim, Comoros

-------------- next part --------------
An embedded message was scrubbed...
From: "SG-Registration, ITU" <sg-registration at itu.int>
Subject: WCIT-12 Briefing session for Civil Society Stakeholders and other interested parties 
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 07:45:27 +0000
Size: 6263
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121009/5f9d72d1/attachment.eml>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From nne75 at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  9 08:35:54 2012
From: nne75 at yahoo.com (Nnenna)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 05:35:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [governance] Verify that you got a visa list email (Baku)
Message-ID: <1349786154.44220.BPMail_high_noncarrier@web120103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>


Dear all

Few hours ago I received another email from Baku concerning entry visa. This is the mail that airline companies will require before boarding you. It has a list 200+ names

If you think you should have received one and did not see it, or you need the list, send a line to nnenna at nnenna.org and I will forward it

Best

Nnenna

-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From nne75 at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  9 08:36:55 2012
From: nne75 at yahoo.com (Nnenna)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 05:36:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [governance] Verify that you got a visa list email (Baku)
Message-ID: <1349786215.29996.BPMail_high_noncarrier@web120105.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>


Dear all

Few hours ago I received another email from Baku concerning entry visa. This is the mail that airline companies will require before boarding you. It has a list 200+ names

If you think you should have received one and did not see it, or you need the list, send a line to nnenna at nnenna.org and I will forward it

Best

Nnenna

-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From roland at internetpolicyagency.com  Tue Oct  9 08:36:52 2012
From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 13:36:52 +0100
Subject: [governance] Verisign's Patent Application for the Transfer of
 DNSSEC Domains
In-Reply-To: <A0615421071EDD4A9F851117D67D538A7EEC935A@EXCH01.KDBSystems.local>
References: <CAJwbTiBm24HvNFFqFKDPerUZkMKG5dvFCoLkc1X65uqEDCBnFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <A0615421071EDD4A9F851117D67D538A7EEC935A@EXCH01.KDBSystems.local>
Message-ID: <VA$8yKgkpBdQFARq@internetpolicyagency.com>

In message 
<A0615421071EDD4A9F851117D67D538A7EEC935A at EXCH01.KDBSystems.local>, at 
15:52:20 on Mon, 8 Oct 2012, Kerry Brown <kerry at kdbsystems.com> writes
>I don?t know enough about patent law to know how broad the implications 
>of this are. If this application is successful would it apply to all 
>transfers of DNSSEC enabled domains

I always understood that the IETF would not approve processes that 
relied upon patented technology, and therefore this would have to be 
just one way to transfer domains with other "open" methods existing 
alongside. But I haven't looked into this particular one.
-- 
Roland Perry

-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com  Tue Oct  9 10:32:25 2012
From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 02:32:25 +1200
Subject: [governance] Verisign's Patent Application for the Transfer of
 DNSSEC Domains
In-Reply-To: <VA$8yKgkpBdQFARq@internetpolicyagency.com>
References: <CAJwbTiBm24HvNFFqFKDPerUZkMKG5dvFCoLkc1X65uqEDCBnFw@mail.gmail.com>
	<A0615421071EDD4A9F851117D67D538A7EEC935A@EXCH01.KDBSystems.local>
	<VA$8yKgkpBdQFARq@internetpolicyagency.com>
Message-ID: <CAJwbTiCnCvc47ieL9JDBdph=--XwoBe_sLMy6Mup3pf8con4HQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 12:36 AM, Roland Perry <
roland at internetpolicyagency.com> wrote:

> In message <**A0615421071EDD4A9F851117D67D53**
> 8A7EEC935A at EXCH01.KDBSystems.**local>, at 15:52:20 on Mon, 8 Oct 2012,
> Kerry Brown <kerry at kdbsystems.com> writes
>
>> I don?t know enough about patent law to know how broad the implications
>> of this are. If this application is successful would it apply to all
>> transfers of DNSSEC enabled domains
>>
>
> I always understood that the IETF would not approve processes that relied
> upon patented technology, and therefore this would have to be just one way
> to transfer domains with other "open" methods existing alongside. But I
> haven't looked into this particular one.
> --
> Roland Perry
>
> Frank Martin had sent these links:

http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-koch-dnsop-dnssec-operator-change-04
http://www.businessinsider.com/google-crowdsourcing-2012-9

>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
P.O. Box 17862
Suva
Fiji

Twitter: @SalanietaT
Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121010/3c980d3d/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From drc at virtualized.org  Tue Oct  9 10:37:31 2012
From: drc at virtualized.org (David Conrad)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 07:37:31 -0700
Subject: [governance] Verisign's Patent Application for the Transfer of
 DNSSEC Domains
In-Reply-To: <VA$8yKgkpBdQFARq@internetpolicyagency.com>
References: <CAJwbTiBm24HvNFFqFKDPerUZkMKG5dvFCoLkc1X65uqEDCBnFw@mail.gmail.com> <A0615421071EDD4A9F851117D67D538A7EEC935A@EXCH01.KDBSystems.local> <VA$8yKgkpBdQFARq@internetpolicyagency.com>
Message-ID: <0EEEE318-1875-4B54-931C-8EC30D58C6ED@virtualized.org>

Roland,

On Oct 9, 2012, at 5:36 AM, Roland Perry <roland at internetpolicyagency.com> wrote:
> In message <A0615421071EDD4A9F851117D67D538A7EEC935A at EXCH01.KDBSystems.local>, at 15:52:20 on Mon, 8 Oct 2012, Kerry Brown <kerry at kdbsystems.com> writes
>> I don?t know enough about patent law to know how broad the implications of this are. If this application is successful would it apply to all transfers of DNSSEC enabled domains
> 
> I always understood that the IETF would not approve processes that relied upon patented technology,

Not quite. The IETF requires folks to disclose IPR claims and their licensing terms during the working group process.  The working group then can decide on whether to include the technology subject to those claims in the working group product. See http://www.ietf.org/ipr/, RFC 3979 and RFC 4879.

In practice, the IETF does tend to strongly avoid technologies that are encumbered with IPR, however sometimes it's necessary (perhaps ironically, DNSSEC was a bit hampered initially in that it relied on patented technology, RSA). The key consideration is typically whether the IPR holder is willing to license their technology in "a) under a royalty-free and otherwise reasonable and non-discriminatory license, or b) under a license that contains reasonable and non-discriminatory terms and conditions, including a reasonable royalty or other payment, or c) without the need to obtain a license from the IPR holder." (from RFC 3979).

> and therefore this would have to be just one way to transfer domains with other "open" methods existing alongside. But I haven't looked into this particular one.

There has been some discussion about published prior art to this particular patent.

Regards,
-drc



-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From ivarhartmann at gmail.com  Tue Oct  9 10:48:04 2012
From: ivarhartmann at gmail.com (Ivar A. M. Hartmann)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 11:48:04 -0300
Subject: [governance] Philippine Cybercrime Prevention Act temporarily
 suspended
Message-ID: <CA+=oXB+WXcf9X0OFGYVkFjyWqaRzo3fuGe05_UwsxZVfSX=SBg@mail.gmail.com>

I got this news from a friend (Pedro Bernardo) who's a law professor at
Ateneo Law School in the Philippines:

"the Philippine Supreme Court issued a 120-day temporary restraining order
preventing the government from enforcing the Cybercrime Prevention Act;
this is, until the court hears oral arguments on the issue in mid-January
next year."

Looks like the discussion is anything but over.
Best,
Ivar
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121009/b3b202f3/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: enbanc10.9.2012.pdf
Type: application/pdf
Size: 242904 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121009/b3b202f3/attachment.pdf>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com  Tue Oct  9 10:56:04 2012
From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 02:56:04 +1200
Subject: [governance] Philippine Cybercrime Prevention Act temporarily
 suspended
In-Reply-To: <CA+=oXB+WXcf9X0OFGYVkFjyWqaRzo3fuGe05_UwsxZVfSX=SBg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+=oXB+WXcf9X0OFGYVkFjyWqaRzo3fuGe05_UwsxZVfSX=SBg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJwbTiCVNYz1eyJKFvX2a7VjYkgWY8xLQvcES=9csrauXAJEWQ@mail.gmail.com>

There were also recent attacks on government websites in protest of the Act.

On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 2:48 AM, Ivar A. M. Hartmann <ivarhartmann at gmail.com
> wrote:

> I got this news from a friend (Pedro Bernardo) who's a law professor at
> Ateneo Law School in the Philippines:
>
> "the Philippine Supreme Court issued a 120-day temporary restraining order
> preventing the government from enforcing the Cybercrime Prevention Act;
> this is, until the court hears oral arguments on the issue in mid-January
> next year."
>
> Looks like the discussion is anything but over.
> Best,
> Ivar
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
P.O. Box 17862
Suva
Fiji

Twitter: @SalanietaT
Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121010/bc99f8b9/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From bavouc at gmail.com  Tue Oct  9 15:52:51 2012
From: bavouc at gmail.com (Martial Bavou[Private Business Account])
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 20:52:51 +0100
Subject: [governance] Verify that you got a visa list email (Baku)
In-Reply-To: <1349786215.29996.BPMail_high_noncarrier@web120105.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1349786215.29996.BPMail_high_noncarrier@web120105.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAANnlFloumCxMuwwBwSZjX53CgAAAEAAAANHksvrbPsJDqeeDCon39GgBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>

Thanks Nnenna, My name is on the list. 

-----Original Message-----
From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
[mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Nnenna
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 1:37 PM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
Subject: [governance] Verify that you got a visa list email (Baku)


Dear all

Few hours ago I received another email from Baku concerning entry visa. This
is the mail that airline companies will require before boarding you. It has
a list 200+ names

If you think you should have received one and did not see it, or you need
the list, send a line to nnenna at nnenna.org and I will forward it

Best

Nnenna



-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From mueller at syr.edu  Tue Oct  9 17:07:00 2012
From: mueller at syr.edu (Milton L Mueller)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 21:07:00 +0000
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <CALCecM-H4nQWir+MqVTiRQPOLsXNavXdG4ofd6M0oe47UK6bMw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com>
 <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br> <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br>
 <0CB09DB8-E475-4EEB-B1DB-84F1F921071E@privaterra.org>
 <E8336492-79A8-44F9-B96E-64B4AC9E9774@gmail.com>
 <506BCAF1.7080504@itforchange.net> <506BCC3A.3080703@itforchange.net>
 <CAEP5zKRCQX29Ya1kTrzTUxtJNKX_02WHKFbkZCeKqDYbDH5fSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+YNoKjzLREA0JagVbbhekUac_QT3rJTuYSqHPTwY7kqZZSGmg@mail.gmail.com>
 <C170D828-2E40-4E1C-AC3E-578FD442B1C8@christopherwilkinson.eu>
 <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD2248050@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
 <CALCecM-H4nQWir+MqVTiRQPOLsXNavXdG4ofd6M0oe47UK6bMw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD224C0EE@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>


From: gpaque at gmail.com [mailto:gpaque at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Ginger Paque

I think that both points are important... I would say 'in addition to' not 'rather than'. Whom we choose sends a signal as sometimes as significant as their words, and we tend to know their general positions as well as speaking abilities when we nominate them.

Ginger and colleagues:
Yes, of course it is "in addition to" not "rather than" - but has there been any substantive discussion yet? Frankly I think what they say is more important than who we choose, but agree that in some cases "the medium is the message."  At any rate we are long on "who" and rather short on "what" at the moment, so...

let me throw out three short statements on issues that I passionately believe should be addressed. In doing so, I will make an attempt to address them in a way that takes into account the differences among us and hope others do so in the same spirit. Other candidate topics would include IPR, development...I defer to others there.

Human rights
CS believes that the absence of gatekeepers and the open, global communication enabled by the Internet realizes the promise of Article 19 of the UN UDHR. To erect (national) legal barriers to the free flow of information is a bad idea and contrary to the individual human right to freedom of expression. We therefore oppose efforts to create "national Internets," or to block and filter internet access in ways that deny individuals access to applications, content and services of their choice. All attempts to deem certain forms of communication and information illegal and remove them must follow established, transparent processes of law and should not involve prior restraint.

Security and Securitization
CS opposes efforts to militarize the Internet, or any actions that would foster a destructive and wasteful cyber arms race among governments and/or private actors. We consider the surreptitious use of exploits and malware for surveillance or attacks to be criminal regardless of whether they are deployed by governments, private corporations or organized criminals. We are skeptical of efforts to subordinate the design and use of information and communication technology to "national security" agendas. We believe that Internet security will be achieved primarily at the operational level and that national security and military agendas often work against rather than for users' security needs.

Multistakeholderism
Global governance institutions should not be restricted to states, so CS welcomes the additional participation in global policy making that multi-stakeholder processes provide. But CS cautions that multi-stakeholder participation is not an end in itself.  Opening up global governance institutions to additional voices from civil society and business does not by itself ensure that individual rights are adequately protected or that the best substantive policies are developed and enforced. In the informal spaces created by MS institutions, it is possible that powerful governmental and corporate actors can make deals contrary to the interests of Internet users. MS processes must incorporate and institutionalize concepts of due process, separation of powers and user's inalienable civil and political rights.

Milton L. Mueller
Professor, Syracuse University School of Information Studies
Internet Governance Project
http://blog.internetgovernance.org


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121009/41a50d6b/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From dogwallah at gmail.com  Tue Oct  9 17:18:29 2012
From: dogwallah at gmail.com (McTim)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 17:18:29 -0400
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD224C0EE@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com>
 <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br> <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br> <0CB09DB8-E475-4EEB-B1DB-84F1F921071E@privaterra.org>
 <E8336492-79A8-44F9-B96E-64B4AC9E9774@gmail.com> <506BCAF1.7080504@itforchange.net>
 <506BCC3A.3080703@itforchange.net> <CAEP5zKRCQX29Ya1kTrzTUxtJNKX_02WHKFbkZCeKqDYbDH5fSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+YNoKjzLREA0JagVbbhekUac_QT3rJTuYSqHPTwY7kqZZSGmg@mail.gmail.com>
 <C170D828-2E40-4E1C-AC3E-578FD442B1C8@christopherwilkinson.eu>
 <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD2248050@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
 <CALCecM-H4nQWir+MqVTiRQPOLsXNavXdG4ofd6M0oe47UK6bMw@mail.gmail.com> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD224C0EE@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <CACAaNxg+=Qwbh7mxrgQx4fb=nuC7r1aqoMJ9POMZAPCtiT9y-A@mail.gmail.com>

good start Milton!

-- 
Cheers,

McTim
"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A
route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel

On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 5:07 PM, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu> wrote:
>
>
> From: gpaque at gmail.com [mailto:gpaque at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Ginger Paque
>
> I think that both points are important... I would say 'in addition to' not
> 'rather than'. Whom we choose sends a signal as sometimes as significant as
> their words, and we tend to know their general positions as well as speaking
> abilities when we nominate them.
>
>
>
> Ginger and colleagues:
>
> Yes, of course it is "in addition to" not "rather than" - but has there been
> any substantive discussion yet? Frankly I think what they say is more
> important than who we choose, but agree that in some cases "the medium is
> the message."  At any rate we are long on "who" and rather short on "what"
> at the moment, so…
>
>
>
> let me throw out three short statements on issues that I passionately
> believe should be addressed. In doing so, I will make an attempt to address
> them in a way that takes into account the differences among us and hope
> others do so in the same spirit. Other candidate topics would include IPR,
> development…I defer to others there.
>
>
>
> Human rights
>
> CS believes that the absence of gatekeepers and the open, global
> communication enabled by the Internet realizes the promise of Article 19 of
> the UN UDHR. To erect (national) legal barriers to the free flow of
> information is a bad idea and contrary to the individual human right to
> freedom of expression. We therefore oppose efforts to create "national
> Internets," or to block and filter internet access in ways that deny
> individuals access to applications, content and services of their choice.
> All attempts to deem certain forms of communication and information illegal
> and remove them must follow established, transparent processes of law and
> should not involve prior restraint.
>
>
>
> Security and Securitization
>
> CS opposes efforts to militarize the Internet, or any actions that would
> foster a destructive and wasteful cyber arms race among governments and/or
> private actors. We consider the surreptitious use of exploits and malware
> for surveillance or attacks to be criminal regardless of whether they are
> deployed by governments, private corporations or organized criminals. We are
> skeptical of efforts to subordinate the design and use of information and
> communication technology to "national security" agendas. We believe that
> Internet security will be achieved primarily at the operational level and
> that national security and military agendas often work against rather than
> for users' security needs.
>
>
>
> Multistakeholderism
>
> Global governance institutions should not be restricted to states, so CS
> welcomes the additional participation in global policy making that
> multi-stakeholder processes provide. But CS cautions that multi-stakeholder
> participation is not an end in itself.  Opening up global governance
> institutions to additional voices from civil society and business does not
> by itself ensure that individual rights are adequately protected or that the
> best substantive policies are developed and enforced. In the informal spaces
> created by MS institutions, it is possible that powerful governmental and
> corporate actors can make deals contrary to the interests of Internet users.
> MS processes must incorporate and institutionalize concepts of due process,
> separation of powers and user's inalienable civil and political rights.
>
>
>
> Milton L. Mueller
>
> Professor, Syracuse University School of Information Studies
>
> Internet Governance Project
>
> http://blog.internetgovernance.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>

-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From roland at internetpolicyagency.com  Wed Oct 10 01:52:25 2012
From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 06:52:25 +0100
Subject: [governance] Verisign's Patent Application for the Transfer of
 DNSSEC Domains
In-Reply-To: <20121009200658.52213.qmail@joyce.lan>
References: <VA$8yKgkpBdQFARq@internetpolicyagency.com>
 <20121009200658.52213.qmail@joyce.lan>
Message-ID: <7JQnAFDZ0QdQFAln@internetpolicyagency.com>

In message <20121009200658.52213.qmail at joyce.lan>, at 20:06:58 on Tue, 9 
Oct 2012, John Levine <icggov at johnlevine.com> writes

>>I always understood that the IETF would not approve processes that
>>relied upon patented technology
>
>You've misunderstood.  Since there's a link to their IPR documents
>on the home page, that shouldn't be hard to clear up.

Using the search engine there, and "Verisign" as a term, doesn't seem to 
show up anything related to the DNSSEC issue.

Thanks to David Conrad for his reply too.
-- 
Roland Perry

-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From charityg at diplomacy.edu  Wed Oct 10 03:30:49 2012
From: charityg at diplomacy.edu (Charity Gamboa)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 02:30:49 -0500
Subject: [governance] Philippine Cybercrime Prevention Act temporarily
 suspended
In-Reply-To: <CAJwbTiCVNYz1eyJKFvX2a7VjYkgWY8xLQvcES=9csrauXAJEWQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+=oXB+WXcf9X0OFGYVkFjyWqaRzo3fuGe05_UwsxZVfSX=SBg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJwbTiCVNYz1eyJKFvX2a7VjYkgWY8xLQvcES=9csrauXAJEWQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABDWBFqD7+p2J4WRfMqPDA23_jE1h=anp93z2eez-KraQE-Uag@mail.gmail.com>

Just an FYI,  in pre-ISOC PH days I believe some organizations in the
Philippines were consulted about drafting a cybercrime law. I think the
main contention at that time was more of pushing for an e-commerce law. I
remember this one since I was part of a group of entrepreneurs who was
trained by the Philippine Youth Commission on Entrepreneurship. The
business industry at that point in the Philippines was booming with a new
administration in place. I was managing my family's business at that time
so there was a lot of movement on pushing for e-commerce. I call it
pre-ISOC PH because ISOC PH was rejuvenated sometime in early 2009.

As far as I know, we in ISOC PH  issued a position paper sometime in March
of 2012 to Congress. But apparently, during bi-cameral, senate inserted
some provisions that just did not pass a lot of scrutiny from different
stakeholders.We are still discussing this and gathering opinions from our
members. Hopefully, we can collate all views and turn in another position
paper.

On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 9:56 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <
salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote:

> There were also recent attacks on government websites in protest of the
> Act.
>
> On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 2:48 AM, Ivar A. M. Hartmann <
> ivarhartmann at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I got this news from a friend (Pedro Bernardo) who's a law professor at
>> Ateneo Law School in the Philippines:
>>
>> "the Philippine Supreme Court issued a 120-day temporary restraining
>> order preventing the government from enforcing the Cybercrime Prevention
>> Act; this is, until the court hears oral arguments on the issue in
>> mid-January next year."
>>
>> Looks like the discussion is anything but over.
>> Best,
>> Ivar
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
> P.O. Box 17862
> Suva
> Fiji
>
> Twitter: @SalanietaT
> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121010/6fa56c18/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From parminder at itforchange.net  Wed Oct 10 03:53:55 2012
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 13:23:55 +0530
Subject: [governance] Re: Verisign's Patent Application for the Transfer
 of DNSSEC Domains
In-Reply-To: <CAJwbTiAMRJ+jm25ub-WX1cVPrka5HH1Y9hBmJyvkGHu8N=RbuA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJwbTiBm24HvNFFqFKDPerUZkMKG5dvFCoLkc1X65uqEDCBnFw@mail.gmail.com> <CAJwbTiAMRJ+jm25ub-WX1cVPrka5HH1Y9hBmJyvkGHu8N=RbuA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50752993.3040204@itforchange.net>



Verisign seeking patent over a 'governance process' should not be too 
surprising, given that there has been a substantial creep from 'public' 
governance methods to 'private' (or contractbased)  governance methods. 
And many in the civil society here have enthusiastically supported this 
shift; so why lament now. ICANN proudly claims that it is not a 
regulator, it merely provides a platform for stakeholders (read, private 
interests) to negotiate, and the outcomes of these negotiations are 
operationalised by ICANN. An entirely innocent activity!

Once you admit the basic proposition that governance, like the market, 
is founded on private parties negotiating on the basis of their 
self-interests, and not based on 'public' interest, the construction of 
which is a larger political process, you have basically given it all 
away. Why would not then one seek maximisation of private interest by 
patenting a governance process embodied in a software for securing the 
DNS system? Well, we can now negotiate with them and they may just agree 
to a system of only taking 'reasonable' royalty on their patent!

To anyone trained in democratic thought, it is so unthinkably abhorrent 
that someone can even try to patent a governance process. But this is a 
post democratic period of multistakeholderism, where governance is 
through negotiation of private interests of different parties that can 
make to the table.

BTW, on another count, the fact that US law allows software patents 
while most other jurisdictions (like India) do not allow software 
patents makes for a good case that the US law is not the best one (it is 
perhaps the worst one) for oversight of the bodies dealing with 
Internet's technical governance. Yes, this argument is directly 
addressed to those who have claimed the superiority, or even the 
appropriateness, of oversight of US law/courts/ executive over the ICANN 
against other possible jurisdictions.

Parminder


On Monday 08 October 2012 02:32 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> I forgot to say that it reminds me of what the Director General of 
> WIPO had mentioned in relation to patenting the internet which was 
> reported exactly this time last year, see: 
> http://boingboing.net/2011/10/08/wipo-boss-the-web-would-have-been-better-if-it-was-patented-and-its-users-had-to-pay-license-fees.html
>
> Sala
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 8:21 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro 
> <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com 
> <mailto:salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Dear All,
>
>     See the Application via
>     http://domainnamewire.com/wp-content/verisign-dnssec.pdf
>
>     Kind Regards,
>
>     -- 
>     Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
>     P.O. Box 17862
>     Suva
>     Fiji
>
>     Twitter: @SalanietaT
>     Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
>     Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 <tel:%2B679%20998%202851>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
> P.O. Box 17862
> Suva
> Fiji
>
> Twitter: @SalanietaT
> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
>
>
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121010/891aa25a/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From parminder at itforchange.net  Wed Oct 10 04:07:18 2012
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 13:37:18 +0530
Subject: [governance] Google's officer with detention order in brasil
In-Reply-To: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223FF98@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
References: <97C82E9A-F686-49C9-9475-CB3733699919@gmail.com> <50656139.4070604@cis-india.org> <CACAaNxhbB9GNvropAXac41J0vCeG7ofX9dRJrSLFKcjMpbhSbQ@mail.gmail.com> <CA+=oXBJVT+n9A9uKSeh5qu3ox+Qw99xSTci+s6bSXaYnWC1_gA@mail.gmail.com> <02350A3A-0235-4E7A-B1D0-5D6ED84AEE4C@safernet.org.br> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223EFEA@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <506944F6.1090501@itforchange.net> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD223FF98@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <50752CB6.40603@itforchange.net>


On Monday 01 October 2012 08:29 PM, Milton L Mueller wrote:
>
> Parminder,
>
> In my opinion your responses and statements continue to take the form 
> of crude leftist propaganda rather than real dialogue. But I 
> understand that you, like most propagandists, get a lot of mileage out 
> of simply repeating the same message over and over agas/in until 
> people grow weary of responding. So I will make some perfunctory 
> efforts to respond just to demonstrate that most of us are not 
> intimidated by aggressive repetition of invalid arguments.
>

Milton, you can do with some amount of deflation of your oversized ego 
before others  do it for you, and try to speak to people rather than 
down to them. If you cant hold a political dialogue, you always have the 
right to opt out. But you dont have to get so angry just because you 
have no answers to simple direct questions like;

    why opting out of 'dumb' Brazilian laws and judges is such a good
    idea and not opting out of dumb US laws and judges;

    or what is the next step for ICANN system's internationalisation, or
    for the democratisation of the kind of Internet policies that OECD's
    CICCP makes, in the networked transnational system that you seem to
    propose, and insist that everyone must read about it (only) in your
    book .


Well, you can call repeating these simple and most important global IG 
questions as propaganda as a device to avoid answering them, but to me, 
and many others here, these remain central to the our discussion(s).
>
>  snip.
>
> MM: Then you are simply ignorant, and need to do your reading.
>
> snip
>

> You are really quite comical.
>

As I said, beware, Prof!

parminder

(PS: Will respond to substantive parts of your email separately.)

> At least the communists and socialists of the 1920s were dealing with 
> life-and-death issues in regard to their critique of business. If you 
> are going to wage an international war against the depredations of big 
> business, you had better come up with something more substantive than 
> Google's terms of use applied to people getting free service, or its 
> resistance to silly and obstructive local laws regarding video 
> takedowns. And we all know that if Google took down videos 
> arbitrarily, you would be criticizing them for that, as well. It's 
> very clear where your simple-minded politics are coming from.
>
>
> On the other hand, I do understand that in the new neoliberal global 
> world order, their is this new political direction of richer classes 
> in most countries (especially, but not only, developing countries) to 
> seek to opt out of the democratic order they are 'subject to' in 
> favour of a new post-democratic global order whose political capital 
> lies in the US, because whether they like it or not, any new system 
> still needs some kind of political coercive authority, for instance to 
> make those early dawn knocks to catch people doing things as dangerous 
> as sharing video files.
>
> Again, there is no coherent political or legal argument here, there is 
> simply 1970s-vintage foaming at the mouth against "US imperialism". 
> Should the world ever be unfortunate enough to put you and your ideas 
> in a position of power and responsibility, you will soon learn - as 
> did all the 'anti-imperialist' socialist dictatorships and economic 
> failures in the developing world of the 1970s - that simply being 
> against the US does not produce anything of value for subject 
> populations. You have to have a substantive agenda.
>
>
> you have said that US laws and judges are good and should continue to 
> overlord over the ICANN (for whatever 'minimalist' areas that you lay 
> down).
>
> Another crude distortion. We have had a debate about California 
> nonprofit incorporation law. ICANN has to incorporate somewhere, and I 
> have said that in terms of public accountability, which you claim to 
> support, that California law is as good as any, and that it is BETTER 
> than international organization laws, which immunize organizations 
> from all kinds of things. You are basically claiming that a treaty can 
> be devised that is better, but no such treaty exists! And given the 
> realities of inter-state political bargaining, there is very little 
> likelihood that the outcome of a treaty process would be better. You 
> have lost this argument,  obviously, so your only recourse is to 
> return to your anti-US mantra and claim that I support US as "overlord."
>
> I think most people can see through this.
>


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121010/c02a5fd6/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From b.schombe at gmail.com  Wed Oct 10 04:11:01 2012
From: b.schombe at gmail.com (Baudouin SCHOMBE)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 09:11:01 +0100
Subject: [governance] Verify that you got a visa list email (Baku)
In-Reply-To: <1349786154.44220.BPMail_high_noncarrier@web120103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1349786154.44220.BPMail_high_noncarrier@web120103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAHj_20jQQ+8A7Qpu0a6Yp=9sYnG_Fs4nUD8fB3mQjXpT22z2Sg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Nnenna, thanks and my name is on.

SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN

Téléphone mobile:+243998983491
email                  : b.schombe at gmail.com
skype                 : b.schombe
blog                    : http://akimambo.unblog.fr
Site Web             : www.ticafrica.net





2012/10/9 Nnenna <nne75 at yahoo.com>

>
> Dear all
>
> Few hours ago I received another email from Baku concerning entry visa.
> This is the mail that airline companies will require before boarding you.
> It has a list 200+ names
>
> If you think you should have received one and did not see it, or you need
> the list, send a line to nnenna at nnenna.org and I will forward it
>
> Best
>
> Nnenna
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121010/c8717688/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From nne75 at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 10 05:10:54 2012
From: nne75 at yahoo.com (Nnenna)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 02:10:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD224C0EE@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com> <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br> <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br> <0CB09DB8-E475-4EEB-B1DB-84F1F921071E@privaterra.org> <E8336492-79A8-44F9-B96E-64B4AC9E9774@gmail.com> <506BCAF1.7080504@itforchange.net> <506BCC3A.3080703@itforchange.net> <CAEP5zKRCQX29Ya1kTrzTUxtJNKX_02WHKFbkZCeKqDYbDH5fSw@mail.gmail.com> <CA+YNoKjzLREA0JagVbbhekUac_QT3rJTuYSqHPTwY7kqZZSGmg@mail.gmail.com> <C170D828-2E40-4E1C-AC3E-578FD442B1C8@christopherwilkinson.eu> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD2248050@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <CALCecM-H4nQWir+MqVTiRQPOLsXNavXdG4ofd6M0oe47UK6bMw@mail.gmail.com> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD224C0EE@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <1349860254.22164.YahooMailNeo@web120102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

+1 On each of the points below.  I am currently in the Côte d'Ivoire Internet Governance Forum and my drafting capacity is limited.  However, I would like to see a line that extends "Multistakeholderism" down to active national participation of all stakeholders. AFAIK, in as much as in some countries, the government is weighing in, in ways that may appear overbearing, in others, the decision-makers are actually note interested or think it is an NGO thing.

Can we have a "Development Agenda" paragraph? I am also thinking that "Participation" may also need to be a paragraph of its own


Best

Nnenna

 


Nnenna  Nwakanma |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG  |  Consultants
Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development
Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471 |Mob. 07416820
Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065| http://www.nnenna.org 
nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 | nnennaorg.blogspot.com



________________________________
 From: Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu>
To: 'Ginger Paque' <ginger at paque.net>; "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" <governance at lists.igcaucus.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 9:07 PM
Subject: RE: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
 

 
 
From:gpaque at gmail.com [mailto:gpaque at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Ginger Paque


I think that both points are important... I would say 'in addition to' not 'rather than'. Whom we choose sends a signal as sometimes as significant as their words, and we tend to know their general positions as well as speaking abilities when we nominate them.
 
Ginger and colleagues:
Yes, of course it is "in addition to" not "rather than" - but has there been any substantive discussion yet? Frankly I think what they say is more important than who we choose, but agree that in some cases "the medium is the message."  At any rate we are long on "who" and rather short on "what" at the moment, so…  
 
let me throw out three short statements on issues that I passionately believe should be addressed. In doing so, I will make an attempt to address them in a way that takes into account the differences among us and hope others do so in the same spirit. Other candidate topics would include IPR, development…I defer to others there.
 
Human rights
CS believes that the absence of gatekeepers and the open, global communication enabled by the Internet realizes the promise of Article 19 of the UN UDHR. To erect (national) legal barriers to the free flow of information is a bad idea and contrary to the individual human right to freedom of expression. We therefore oppose efforts to create "national Internets," or to block and filter internet access in ways that deny individuals access to applications, content and services of their choice. All attempts to deem certain forms of communication and information illegal and remove them must follow established, transparent processes of law and should not involve prior restraint. 
 
Security and Securitization 
CS opposes efforts to militarize the Internet, or any actions that would foster a destructive and wasteful cyber arms race among governments and/or private actors. We consider the surreptitious use of exploits and malware for surveillance or attacks to be criminal regardless of whether they are deployed by governments, private corporations or organized criminals. We are skeptical of efforts to subordinate the design and use of information and communication technology to "national security" agendas. We believe that Internet security will be achieved primarily at the operational level and that national security and military agendas often work against rather than for users' security needs.
 
Multistakeholderism
Global governance institutions should not be restricted to states, so CS welcomes the additional participation in global policy making that multi-stakeholder processes provide. But CS cautions that multi-stakeholder participation is not an end in itself.  Opening up global governance institutions to additional voices from civil society and business does not by itself ensure that individual rights are adequately protected or that the best substantive policies are developed and enforced. In the informal spaces created by MS institutions, it is possible that powerful governmental and corporate actors can make deals contrary to the interests of Internet users. MS processes must incorporate and institutionalize concepts of due process, separation of powers and user's inalienable civil and political rights. 
 
Milton L. Mueller
Professor, Syracuse University School of Information Studies
Internet Governance Project
http://blog.internetgovernance.org 
 
 
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
    http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121010/46de0805/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From amalidesilva at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 10 06:02:08 2012
From: amalidesilva at yahoo.com (Amali De Silva)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 03:02:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <1349860254.22164.YahooMailNeo@web120102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com> <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br> <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br> <0CB09DB8-E475-4EEB-B1DB-84F1F921071E@privaterra.org> <E8336492-79A8-44F9-B96E-64B4AC9E9774@gmail.com> <506BCAF1.7080504@itforchange.net> <506BCC3A.3080703@itforchange.net> <CAEP5zKRCQX29Ya1kTrzTUxtJNKX_02WHKFbkZCeKqDYbDH5fSw@mail.gmail.com> <CA+YNoKjzLREA0JagVbbhekUac_QT3rJTuYSqHPTwY7kqZZSGmg@mail.gmail.com> <C170D828-2E40-4E1C-AC3E-578FD442B1C8@christopherwilkinson.eu> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD2248050@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <CALCecM-H4nQWir+MqVTiRQPOLsXNavXdG4ofd6M0oe47UK6bMw@mail.gmail.com> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD224C0EE@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <1349860254.22164.YahooMailNeo@web120102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1349863328.91484.YahooMailNeo@web112317.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

when formulating human rights approaches we should always remember that the framework is based on some concepts that include:

respect for the individual and the community of writing and reading

compassion for feelings of others in the community of writing and reading

concept of "reasonable" in the community of wirting and reading 

the application of intents content in a reasonable manner

the laws of the applicable individual and connected jurisdiction(s) 

interpretations of the laws of the jurisdictions with respect to the reasonable position 

the questions of what is neutral content vs what requires moderation by a panel of moderators for instance as to the broad based principles of governance for regional content - perhaps based on the WSIS regional caucuses

understanding regional issues and stakeholder groups - should there be a second tier of human rights moderators on internet issues ? : top tier - global ; second tier - regional aspects and application understandings group 

See article below 
Regional Security Councils – A Way Towards UN ReformFebruary 18, 201

link to  content at: http://www.island.lk/index.php?page_cat=article-details&page=article-details&code_title=45576 

The article noted above is a proposal by my father. This is a reflection of mine regarding the internet, based on his article. 


Thank you. 

Amali De Silva - Mitchell ( Former President Vancouver Community Network Canada - Participant WSIS ) 

This is a personal note and in no way reflects the opinions of any organization. 

 


 
 


________________________________
 From: Nnenna <nne75 at yahoo.com>
To: "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>; Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu> 
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 10:10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
 

+1 On each of the points below.  I am currently in the Côte d'Ivoire Internet Governance Forum and my drafting capacity is limited.  However, I would like to see a line that extends "Multistakeholderism" down to active national participation of all stakeholders. AFAIK, in as much as in some countries, the government is weighing in, in ways that may appear overbearing, in others, the decision-makers are actually note interested or think it is an NGO thing.

Can we have a "Development Agenda" paragraph? I am also thinking that "Participation" may also need to be a paragraph of its own


Best

Nnenna

 


Nnenna  Nwakanma
 |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG  |  Consultants
Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development
Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471 |Mob. 07416820
Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065| http://www.nnenna.org 
nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 | nnennaorg.blogspot.com



________________________________
 From: Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu>
To: 'Ginger Paque' <ginger at paque.net>; "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" <governance at lists.igcaucus.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 9:07 PM
Subject: RE: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
 

 
 
From:gpaque at gmail.com [mailto:gpaque at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Ginger Paque


I think that both points are important... I would say 'in addition to' not 'rather than'. Whom we choose sends a signal as sometimes as significant as their words, and we tend to know their general positions as well as speaking abilities when we nominate them.
 
Ginger and colleagues:
Yes, of course it is "in addition to" not "rather than" - but has there been any substantive discussion yet? Frankly I think what they say is more important than who we choose, but agree that in some cases "the medium is the message."  At any rate we are long on "who" and rather short on "what" at the moment, so…  
 
let me throw out three short statements on issues that I passionately believe should be addressed. In doing so, I will make an attempt to address them in a way that takes into account the differences among us and hope others do so in the same spirit. Other candidate topics would include IPR, development…I defer to others there.
 
Human rights
CS believes that the absence of gatekeepers and the open, global communication enabled by the Internet realizes the promise of Article 19 of the UN UDHR. To erect (national) legal barriers to the free flow of information is a bad idea and contrary to the individual human right to freedom of expression. We therefore oppose efforts to create "national Internets," or to block and filter internet access in ways that deny individuals access to applications, content and services of their choice. All attempts to deem certain forms of communication and information illegal and remove them must follow established, transparent processes of law and should not involve prior restraint. 
 
Security and Securitization 
CS opposes efforts to militarize the Internet, or any actions that would foster a destructive and wasteful cyber arms race among governments and/or private actors. We consider the surreptitious use of exploits and malware for surveillance or attacks to be criminal regardless of whether they are deployed by governments, private corporations or organized criminals. We are skeptical of efforts to subordinate the design and use of information and communication technology to "national security" agendas. We believe that Internet security will be achieved primarily at the operational level and that national security and military agendas often work against rather than for users' security needs.
 
Multistakeholderism
Global governance institutions should not be restricted to states, so CS welcomes the additional participation in global policy making that multi-stakeholder processes provide. But CS cautions that multi-stakeholder participation is not an end in itself.  Opening up global governance institutions to additional voices from civil society and business does not by itself ensure that individual rights are adequately protected or that the best substantive policies are developed and enforced. In the informal spaces created by MS institutions, it is possible that powerful governmental and corporate actors can make deals contrary to the interests of Internet users. MS processes must incorporate and institutionalize concepts of due process, separation of powers and user's inalienable civil and political rights. 
 
Milton L. Mueller
Professor, Syracuse University School of Information Studies
Internet Governance Project
http://blog.internetgovernance.org 
 
 
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
    http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t



____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
    http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121010/2f53cd40/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From gurstein at gmail.com  Wed Oct 10 11:01:29 2012
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 08:01:29 -0700
Subject: [governance] WSIS Forum 2013: Invitation to contribute to the Open
 Consultation Process on the
Message-ID: <01ea01cda6f8$4ddbc0c0$e9934240$@gmail.com>

Comments?

 

M

 

 

WSIS Forum 2013: Invitation to contribute to the Open Consultation Process
on the 

Thematic Aspects and innovations on the Format 

Dear Sir/Madam, 

Following the outcomes of the WSIS Action Line Facilitators meetings during
the WSIS Forum 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012 and the exchange of views amongst
several WSIS stakeholders, the organizers of the WSIS Forum, ITU, UNESCO,
UNCTAD and UNDP are pleased to announce the Open Consultation Process on the
thematic aspects and innovations on the format of the WSIS Forum 2013. 

This consultation process aims at ensuring the participatory and inclusive
spirit of the WSIS Forum 2013, scheduled to be held from 13 to 17 May at the
International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, by actively engaging
governments, civil society, the private sector and intergovernmental
organizations in the preparatory process. 

 


The Open Consultation Process for the WSIS Forum 2013 is structured in five
phases as follows: 

Phase I : 

8 October 2012 Opening of the Open Consultations: 

 

. Online Dialogues on the WSIS Knowledge Communities 

. Official submissions at wsis-info at itu.int 


Phase II : 

16 November 2012 First Physical Meeting 


Phase III : 

21 January 2013 Deadline for Submission of the Official Contributions and
binding requests for Workshops 


Phase IV : 

15 February 2013 Final Review Meeting (3 months prior to the meeting) 


Phase V : 

16 April 2013 Final Brief on the WSIS Forum 2013 

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121010/c8dca80c/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From sdkaaa at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 03:36:12 2012
From: sdkaaa at gmail.com (Bernard Sadaka)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 10:36:12 +0300
Subject: [governance] IGF 2012: Call for remote Hubs
Message-ID: <CAALUBLTc=aJn36=Lrrm_4=0M0ody-+knc7HLk54zPii7w27k=g@mail.gmail.com>

Dear All,

As we approach the IGF 2012 meeting, which is being held on 6-9 November
2012 in Baku, Azerbaijan, the IGF Secretariat will once again be providing
remote participation facilities this year.

Many of us within the IG Caucus community will not be able to attend and
some of us would require to invite others to actively take part of the
debates. Taking into consideration the importance of the global as well as
local debates, the IGF Secretariat has issued a call for the setting up
remote hubs in our countries/institutions as well as providing technical
support in the form of training on the remote platform as well as email
support.

So what are remote hubs?
A remote hub is a group of people (5 or more) with common interest in an
IGF theme/session who gather in a room and remotely watch the video/audio
and text of one or more of the workshops of the IGF in Baku as well as send
their feedback via chat, audio and/or video.

What can you do to participate?

   - Tell your colleagues/friends/acquaintances about your hub
   - Register your hub at:
   http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/remote-participation/hub-registration-2012
   - Prepare an adequate room at office or home with a computer, Internet,
   audio system and a projector
   - Follow a training at:
   http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/remote-participation/trainings-2012
   - Choose some interesting workshops for you and your
   colleagues/friends/acquaintances from the latest programme (on home page:
   http://www.intgovforum.org/) and invite them to join you at the time of
   that workshop.
   - You will be able to chat with that workshop as well as send an
   audio/video intervention.

Should you have any question regarding remote participation, please do not
hesitate to contact me at: bsadaka at unog.ch

Looking forward to your active engagement, feedback and participation.

All the best,
Bernard
--
Bernard Sadaka

More info:

   - General information about remote participation:
   http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/remote-participation
   - Details and instructions regarding the organisation of a remote hub:
   http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/remote-participation/hubs-instructions
   - Hub registration at
   http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/remote-participation/hub-registration-2012
   - Remote Participation trainings for remote hubs coordinators are
   scheduled at
   http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/remote-participation/trainings-2012
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121011/18a5f638/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From fouadbajwa at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 04:24:09 2012
From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Bajwa)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 13:24:09 +0500
Subject: [governance] Closing of online registration for Baku IGF and start
 of Onsite Registration Date
Message-ID: <CAHuaJtMy69=EC-LdvreK1=D3coLx5M=E+pey6EbLqhOWkhsgAQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear All,

An update from IGF Secretariat that the online registration for the
Seventh Annual IGF Meeting closes on Monday, 15 October whereas the
onsite registration will start on Friday, 2 November at the Baku Expo
Center.

Best regards


FoOoOoO?

-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From gurstein at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 06:37:38 2012
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 03:37:38 -0700
Subject: [governance] The ITU/WCIT: Thinking About Internet Regulatory
 Policy From An LDC Perspective?
Message-ID: <056001cda79c$6fcd1360$4f673a20$@gmail.com>

Note, this flows from a discussion that initially took place on a listserve
sponsored by ISOC on Internet Policy. I've changed the subject line here and
I've copied the others involved in this thread (I'm not sure if they are or
are not subbed to the Community Informatics or the governance lists) but I
know that they all have a deep knowledge and interest in this subject. I'm
also putting all of this below up on my blog http://gurstein.wordpress.com
where those with an interest might wish to carry forward this discussion.

 

The extended discussion is probably only for those with an interest in
Internet Governance issues and particularly as they apply to the regulatory
regimes (and policy stances) of Less Developed Countries and I would point
those with such an interest to research papers prepared by Michael Kende of
the consulting firm AnalysysMason on behalf of Amazon, AT&T, Cisco Systems,
Comcast, Google, Intel, Juniper Networks, Microsoft, National Cable &
Telecommunications Association (NCTA), News Corporation, Oracle, Telefónica,
Time Warner Cable, Verisign, and Verizon. 

 

specifically:

https://fileshare.tools.isoc.org/wentworth/public/ISOC%20WCIT%20statements%2
0
<https://fileshare.tools.isoc.org/wentworth/public/ISOC%20WCIT%20statements%
20&%20resources/Analysys_Mason_RDRK0_driving_broadband_Africa_Dec2011%20copy
.pdf>
&%20resources/Analysys_Mason_RDRK0_driving_broadband_Africa_Dec2011%20copy.p
df

 

and

 

http://www.analysysmason.com/About-Us/News/Press-releases1/Internet-global-g
rowth-PR-Sept2012/?bp=http%3a%2f%2fwww.analysysmason.com%2fSearch%2f%23query
%3dglobal%2binternet%2bgrowth%26access%3dAll+content

 

I should say that both of these reports are very interesting and contain a
wealth of good information, however, the problem that I have with them and
particularly the second report is that it so clearly starts off with its
policy conclusion and builds a case to support this.  This is not an area of
particular expertise for me as I indicate in my comments in the below but my
gut is that the conclusions as to the appropriate policy regime for Less
Developed Countries (the apparent target for the second policy report from
Michael Kende) would look quite different if it was done from/by folks from
LDC's rather than sponsored as Kende's report was by Google, Cisco, Amazon,
Microsoft and so on and so on.

 

I'm not exactly sure what the LDC sponsored report would say but my guess
would be that they would focus rather more on looking at how costs and
benefits are and should be distributed as between some of the wealthiest
companies from some of the wealthiest countries and LDC's looking to
increase Internet access overall in environments of very low incomes, very
difficult physical environments, extremely weak regulatory and taxation
regimes, and vast areas and populations who might under some circumstances
derive benefit from Internet access but who would under almost any
conceivable current situation find paying for this almost impossible.

 

My hunch is that they wouldn't start out with indicating as the number one
recommendation of the report -- the basic point of the overall report from
what I can see -- the overwhelming importance of

Promoting network infrastructure: (by a) Focus on increasing investments
throughout the network, from mobile broadband access through national and
cross-border connectivity and IXPs, by removing roadblocks to lower the cost
of investment, including allocating spectrum for mobile broadband or
limiting licensing requirements and fees, in order to promote competitive
entry and growth.

 

>From what I am seeing (and Kende's report is as good a signal as any) the
Internet biggies are running a bit scared (the term "moral panic" comes to
mind) as to what "madness" might come out of the WCIT meeting that the ITU
is hosting in December in Dubai. And they are pulling out all the stops in
trying to derail any real discussion on how the costs and benefits might be
allocated of improving/extending Internet access in and into LDC's and
within LDC's to the other 99% or so in those countries who currently have no
possible means of access. This is of course because the ITU as the
traditional venue for global telecom "governance" includes among its 195 or
so Member States a very goodly proportion, probably a majority, who are
currently experiencing net costs (including many regimes who see these costs
in terms of lost political control) from Internet access and paticularly if
attempts at extending access to rural and maginalized populations are taken
into consideration, rather than net benefits and not surprisingly they are
looking at ways of righting that balance.

 

And so instead of actually sitting down and trying to figure out a global
regime for Internet (and possibly other) governance, that might in some
sense lead to an equitable distribution of costs and benefits the biggies
are launching verbal, research and whatever types of broadsides infinite
amounts of money, easy access to expertise and the current ascendance of
neo-libertarian (anti-State, anti-tax) ideology can muster.

 

I myself am of two minds on this issue.  I well recognize the value/benefits
that could flow from Internet access even to the poorest of the poor and the
overwhelming benefits that Internet access provides to those for example in
civil society who can take advantage of its more or less unlimited free flow
of communications and information (including through undermining various
repressive political regimes). On the other hand, the unlimited unregulated
policy environment advocated by reports like that of Kende and others of
that ideological ilk would I think, lead almost directly to a further
enrichment of the already stupendously wealthy and overall a signifcant
transfer of wealth and benefit from those with the least to those with the
most.

 

The challenge I think is to recognize both of the above as equally
likely/possible outcomes.  This implies the need to design and implement a
global regime which ensures the possibility of universal access to the
benefits of the Internet while ensuring that the provision of these
opportunities does not further enmiserate those currently least able to
obtain these benefits at least in part by destroying the means by which such
possible access to benefits could through public intervention, regulation
and yes, even taxation ensure that such a possibility of benefits can be
translated into actuality. 

 

Mike 

  _____  

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121011/06210325/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From william.drake at uzh.ch  Thu Oct 11 08:23:43 2012
From: william.drake at uzh.ch (William Drake)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 08:23:43 -0400
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <1349860254.22164.YahooMailNeo@web120102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com> <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br> <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br> <0CB09DB8-E475-4EEB-B1DB-84F1F921071E@privaterra.org> <E8336492-79A8-44F9-B96E-64B4AC9E9774@gmail.com> <506BCAF1.7080504@itforchange.net> <506BCC3A.3080703@itforchange.net> <CAEP5zKRCQX29Ya1kTrzTUxtJNKX_02WHKFbkZCeKqDYbDH5fSw@mail.gmail.com> <CA+YNoKjzLREA0JagVbbhekUac_QT3rJTuYSqHPTwY7kqZZSGmg@mail.gmail.com> <C170D828-2E40-4E1C-AC3E-578FD442B1C8@christopherwilkinson.eu> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD2248050@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <CALCecM-H4nQWir+MqVTiRQPOLsXNavXdG4ofd6M0oe47UK6bMw@mail.gmail.com> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD224C0EE@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <1349860254.22164.YahooMailNeo@web120102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2A131ED0-0371-4EDA-AE99-98943AD1D33C@uzh.ch>

In light of the host country's jaw dropping decision to publicly disseminate all participants' passport numbers, I hope whoever we have speaking in the opening an closing will emphasize the centrality of personal privacy protection in Internet governance.  

Best

Bill

On Oct 10, 2012, at 5:10 AM, Nnenna wrote:

> +1 On each of the points below.  I am currently in the Côte d'Ivoire Internet Governance Forum and my drafting capacity is limited.  However, I would like to see a line that extends "Multistakeholderism" down to active national participation of all stakeholders. AFAIK, in as much as in some countries, the government is weighing in, in ways that may appear overbearing, in others, the decision-makers are actually note interested or think it is an NGO thing.
> 
> Can we have a "Development Agenda" paragraph? I am also thinking that "Participation" may also need to be a paragraph of its own
> 
> Best
> 
> Nnenna
>  
> 
> 
> Nnenna  Nwakanma |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG  |  Consultants
> Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development
> Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471 |Mob. 07416820
> Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065| http://www.nnenna.org 
> nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 | nnennaorg.blogspot.com
> 
> From: Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu>
> To: 'Ginger Paque' <ginger at paque.net>; "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" <governance at lists.igcaucus.org> 
> Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 9:07 PM
> Subject: RE: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
> 
>  
> From: gpaque at gmail.com [mailto:gpaque at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Ginger Paque
> 
> I think that both points are important... I would say 'in addition to' not 'rather than'. Whom we choose sends a signal as sometimes as significant as their words, and we tend to know their general positions as well as speaking abilities when we nominate them.
>  
> Ginger and colleagues:
> Yes, of course it is "in addition to" not "rather than" - but has there been any substantive discussion yet? Frankly I think what they say is more important than who we choose, but agree that in some cases "the medium is the message."  At any rate we are long on "who" and rather short on "what" at the moment, so…  
>  
> let me throw out three short statements on issues that I passionately believe should be addressed. In doing so, I will make an attempt to address them in a way that takes into account the differences among us and hope others do so in the same spirit. Other candidate topics would include IPR, development…I defer to others there.
>  
> Human rights
> CS believes that the absence of gatekeepers and the open, global communication enabled by the Internet realizes the promise of Article 19 of the UN UDHR. To erect (national) legal barriers to the free flow of information is a bad idea and contrary to the individual human right to freedom of expression. We therefore oppose efforts to create "national Internets," or to block and filter internet access in ways that deny individuals access to applications, content and services of their choice. All attempts to deem certain forms of communication and information illegal and remove them must follow established, transparent processes of law and should not involve prior restraint.
>  
> Security and Securitization
> CS opposes efforts to militarize the Internet, or any actions that would foster a destructive and wasteful cyber arms race among governments and/or private actors. We consider the surreptitious use of exploits and malware for surveillance or attacks to be criminal regardless of whether they are deployed by governments, private corporations or organized criminals. We are skeptical of efforts to subordinate the design and use of information and communication technology to "national security" agendas. We believe that Internet security will be achieved primarily at the operational level and that national security and military agendas often work against rather than for users' security needs.
>  
> Multistakeholderism
> Global governance institutions should not be restricted to states, so CS welcomes the additional participation in global policy making that multi-stakeholder processes provide. But CS cautions that multi-stakeholder participation is not an end in itself.  Opening up global governance institutions to additional voices from civil society and business does not by itself ensure that individual rights are adequately protected or that the best substantive policies are developed and enforced. In the informal spaces created by MS institutions, it is possible that powerful governmental and corporate actors can make deals contrary to the interests of Internet users. MS processes must incorporate and institutionalize concepts of due process, separation of powers and user's inalienable civil and political rights.
>  
> Milton L. Mueller
> Professor, Syracuse University School of Information Studies
> Internet Governance Project
> http://blog.internetgovernance.org
>  
>  
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121011/62ea9b3a/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From katycarvt at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 08:42:49 2012
From: katycarvt at gmail.com (Katy P)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 05:42:49 -0700
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <2A131ED0-0371-4EDA-AE99-98943AD1D33C@uzh.ch>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com>
	<506B08C9.90107@cgi.br>
	<506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br>
	<0CB09DB8-E475-4EEB-B1DB-84F1F921071E@privaterra.org>
	<E8336492-79A8-44F9-B96E-64B4AC9E9774@gmail.com>
	<506BCAF1.7080504@itforchange.net>
	<506BCC3A.3080703@itforchange.net>
	<CAEP5zKRCQX29Ya1kTrzTUxtJNKX_02WHKFbkZCeKqDYbDH5fSw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+YNoKjzLREA0JagVbbhekUac_QT3rJTuYSqHPTwY7kqZZSGmg@mail.gmail.com>
	<C170D828-2E40-4E1C-AC3E-578FD442B1C8@christopherwilkinson.eu>
	<855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD2248050@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
	<CALCecM-H4nQWir+MqVTiRQPOLsXNavXdG4ofd6M0oe47UK6bMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD224C0EE@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
	<1349860254.22164.YahooMailNeo@web120102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<2A131ED0-0371-4EDA-AE99-98943AD1D33C@uzh.ch>
Message-ID: <CADBMUMG5Yk8uvq0tOdf-9QdXP1DSzOLpQpbWuJktpUK=C6F4-A@mail.gmail.com>

What? When did this happen?
On Oct 11, 2012 8:24 AM, "William Drake" <william.drake at uzh.ch> wrote:

> In light of the host country's jaw dropping decision to publicly
> disseminate all participants' passport numbers, I hope whoever we have
> speaking in the opening an closing will emphasize the centrality of
> personal privacy protection in Internet governance.
>
> Best
>
> Bill
>
> On Oct 10, 2012, at 5:10 AM, Nnenna wrote:
>
> +1 On each of the points below.  I am currently in the Côte d'Ivoire
> Internet Governance Forum and my drafting capacity is limited.  However, I
> would like to see a line that extends "Multistakeholderism" down to active
> national participation of all stakeholders. AFAIK, in as much as in some
> countries, the government is weighing in, in ways that may appear
> overbearing, in others, the decision-makers are actually note interested or
> think it is an NGO thing.
>
> Can we have a "Development Agenda" paragraph? I am also thinking that
> "Participation" may also need to be a paragraph of its own
>
> Best
>
> Nnenna
>
>
>
> Nnenna  Nwakanma |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG  |  Consultants
> Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development
> Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471 |Mob. 07416820
> Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065| http://www.nnenna.org
> nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 | nnennaorg.blogspot.com
>
>   ------------------------------
> *From:* Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu>
> *To:* 'Ginger Paque' <ginger at paque.net>; "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" <
> governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 9, 2012 9:07 PM
> *Subject:* RE: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
>
>
>  *From:* gpaque at gmail.com [mailto:gpaque at gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Ginger
> Paque
>
>  I think that both points are important... I would say 'in addition to'
> not 'rather than'. Whom we choose sends a signal as sometimes as
> significant as their words, and we tend to know their general positions as
> well as speaking abilities when we nominate them.
>
> Ginger and colleagues:
> Yes, of course it is "in addition to" not "rather than" - but has there
> been any substantive discussion yet? Frankly I think what they say is more
> important than who we choose, but agree that in some cases "the medium is
> the message."  At any rate we are long on "who" and rather short on "what"
> at the moment, so…
>
> let me throw out three short statements on issues that I passionately
> believe should be addressed. In doing so, I will make an attempt to address
> them in a way that takes into account the differences among us and hope
> others do so in the same spirit. Other candidate topics would include IPR,
> development…I defer to others there.
>
> Human rights
> CS believes that the absence of gatekeepers and the open, global
> communication enabled by the Internet realizes the promise of Article 19 of
> the UN UDHR. To erect (national) legal barriers to the free flow of
> information is a bad idea and contrary to the individual human right to
> freedom of expression. We therefore oppose efforts to create "national
> Internets," or to block and filter internet access in ways that deny
> individuals access to applications, content and services of their choice.
> All attempts to deem certain forms of communication and information illegal
> and remove them must follow established, transparent processes of law and
> should not involve prior restraint.
>
> Security and Securitization
> CS opposes efforts to militarize the Internet, or any actions that would
> foster a destructive and wasteful cyber arms race among governments and/or
> private actors. We consider the surreptitious use of exploits and malware
> for surveillance or attacks to be criminal regardless of whether they are
> deployed by governments, private corporations or organized criminals. We
> are skeptical of efforts to subordinate the design and use of information
> and communication technology to "national security" agendas. We believe
> that Internet security will be achieved primarily at the operational level
> and that national security and military agendas often work against rather
> than for users' security needs.
>
> Multistakeholderism
> Global governance institutions should not be restricted to states, so CS
> welcomes the additional participation in global policy making that
> multi-stakeholder processes provide. But CS cautions that multi-stakeholder
> participation is not an end in itself.  Opening up global governance
> institutions to additional voices from civil society and business does not
> by itself ensure that individual rights are adequately protected or that
> the best substantive policies are developed and enforced. In the informal
> spaces created by MS institutions, it is possible that powerful
> governmental and corporate actors can make deals contrary to the interests
> of Internet users. MS processes must incorporate and institutionalize
> concepts of due process, separation of powers and user's inalienable civil
> and political rights.
>
> Milton L. Mueller
> Professor, Syracuse University School of Information Studies
> Internet Governance Project
> http://blog.internetgovernance.org
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>  ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121011/df3a0e08/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From tapani.tarvainen at effi.org  Thu Oct 11 08:49:47 2012
From: tapani.tarvainen at effi.org (Tapani Tarvainen)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 15:49:47 +0300
Subject: [governance] Verify that you got a visa list email (Baku)
In-Reply-To: <1349786154.44220.BPMail_high_noncarrier@web120103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1349786154.44220.BPMail_high_noncarrier@web120103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20121011124947.GN5153@baribal.tarvainen.info>

On Oct 09 05:35, Nnenna (nne75 at yahoo.com) wrote:

> Dear all
> 
> Few hours ago I received another email from Baku concerning entry
> visa. This is the mail that airline companies will require before
> boarding you. It has a list 200+ names

> If you think you should have received one and did not see it, or you
> need the list, send a line to nnenna at nnenna.org and I will forward it

Dear NNenna,

Could you please forward it to me. Thank you.

- I Hope to see you in Baku. In case you don't remember me, I'm the
guy behind camera in this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSU346fkkSQ

Best regards,

-- 
Tapani Tarvainen
Vice president, Electronic Frontier Finland
email tapani.tarvainen at effi.org
tel. +358-40-7293479


-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From tapani.tarvainen at effi.org  Thu Oct 11 08:52:12 2012
From: tapani.tarvainen at effi.org (Tapani Tarvainen)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 15:52:12 +0300
Subject: [governance] Verify that you got a visa list email (Baku)
In-Reply-To: <20121011124947.GN5153@baribal.tarvainen.info>
References: <1349786154.44220.BPMail_high_noncarrier@web120103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <20121011124947.GN5153@baribal.tarvainen.info>
Message-ID: <20121011125212.GO5153@baribal.tarvainen.info>

Oops, that obviously was meant for Nnenna only.

But I guess it goes to show how easily things sometimes spread wider
than they should - I just realized that list is what Bill must've
meant about distributing participants' passport numbers.

Nnenna,

I don't really need the list but I'd like to know if I'm in it.

Tapani

On Oct 11 15:49, Tapani Tarvainen (tapani.tarvainen at effi.org) wrote:

> On Oct 09 05:35, Nnenna (nne75 at yahoo.com) wrote:
> 
> > Dear all
> > 
> > Few hours ago I received another email from Baku concerning entry
> > visa. This is the mail that airline companies will require before
> > boarding you. It has a list 200+ names
> 
> > If you think you should have received one and did not see it, or you
> > need the list, send a line to nnenna at nnenna.org and I will forward it
> 
> Dear NNenna,
> 
> Could you please forward it to me. Thank you.
> 
> - I Hope to see you in Baku. In case you don't remember me, I'm the
> guy behind camera in this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSU346fkkSQ
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> -- 
> Tapani Tarvainen
> Vice president, Electronic Frontier Finland
> email tapani.tarvainen at effi.org
> tel. +358-40-7293479
> 
> 

> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From william.drake at uzh.ch  Thu Oct 11 09:00:06 2012
From: william.drake at uzh.ch (William Drake)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 09:00:06 -0400
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <CADBMUMG5Yk8uvq0tOdf-9QdXP1DSzOLpQpbWuJktpUK=C6F4-A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com> <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br> <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br> <0CB09DB8-E475-4EEB-B1DB-84F1F921071E@privaterra.org> <E8336492-79A8-44F9-B96E-64B4AC9E9774@gmail.com> <506BCAF1.7080504@itforchange.net> <506BCC3A.3080703@itforchange.net> <CAEP5zKRCQX29Ya1kTrzTUxtJNKX_02WHKFbkZCeKqDYbDH5fSw@mail.gmail.com> <CA+YNoKjzLREA0JagVbbhekUac_QT3rJTuYSqHPTwY7kqZZSGmg@mail.gmail.com> <C170D828-2E40-4E1C-AC3E-578FD442B1C8@christopherwilkinson.eu> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD2248050@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <CALCecM-H4nQWir+MqVTiRQPOLsXNavXdG4ofd6M0oe47UK6bMw@mail.gmail.com> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD224C0EE@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <1349860254.22164.YahooMailNeo@web120102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <2A131ED0-0371-4EDA-AE99-98943AD1D33C@uzh.ch> <CADBMUMG5Yk8uvq0tOdf-9QdXP1DSzOLpQpbWuJktpUK=C6F4-A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <04985B25-E155-4931-A380-FC92F0D50033@uzh.ch>

it's what they're sending registrants

On Oct 11, 2012, at 8:42 AM, Katy P wrote:

> What? When did this happen?
> 
> On Oct 11, 2012 8:24 AM, "William Drake" <william.drake at uzh.ch> wrote:
> In light of the host country's jaw dropping decision to publicly disseminate all participants' passport numbers, I hope whoever we have speaking in the opening an closing will emphasize the centrality of personal privacy protection in Internet governance.  
> 
> Best
> 
> Bill
> 
> On Oct 10, 2012, at 5:10 AM, Nnenna wrote:
> 
>> +1 On each of the points below.  I am currently in the Côte d'Ivoire Internet Governance Forum and my drafting capacity is limited.  However, I would like to see a line that extends "Multistakeholderism" down to active national participation of all stakeholders. AFAIK, in as much as in some countries, the government is weighing in, in ways that may appear overbearing, in others, the decision-makers are actually note interested or think it is an NGO thing.
>> 
>> Can we have a "Development Agenda" paragraph? I am also thinking that "Participation" may also need to be a paragraph of its own
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Nnenna
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> Nnenna  Nwakanma |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG  |  Consultants
>> Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development
>> Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471 |Mob. 07416820
>> Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065| http://www.nnenna.org 
>> nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 | nnennaorg.blogspot.com
>> 
>> From: Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu>
>> To: 'Ginger Paque' <ginger at paque.net>; "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" <governance at lists.igcaucus.org> 
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 9:07 PM
>> Subject: RE: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
>> 
>>  
>> From: gpaque at gmail.com [mailto:gpaque at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Ginger Paque
>> 
>> I think that both points are important... I would say 'in addition to' not 'rather than'. Whom we choose sends a signal as sometimes as significant as their words, and we tend to know their general positions as well as speaking abilities when we nominate them.
>>  
>> Ginger and colleagues:
>> Yes, of course it is "in addition to" not "rather than" - but has there been any substantive discussion yet? Frankly I think what they say is more important than who we choose, but agree that in some cases "the medium is the message."  At any rate we are long on "who" and rather short on "what" at the moment, so…  
>>  
>> let me throw out three short statements on issues that I passionately believe should be addressed. In doing so, I will make an attempt to address them in a way that takes into account the differences among us and hope others do so in the same spirit. Other candidate topics would include IPR, development…I defer to others there.
>>  
>> Human rights
>> CS believes that the absence of gatekeepers and the open, global communication enabled by the Internet realizes the promise of Article 19 of the UN UDHR. To erect (national) legal barriers to the free flow of information is a bad idea and contrary to the individual human right to freedom of expression. We therefore oppose efforts to create "national Internets," or to block and filter internet access in ways that deny individuals access to applications, content and services of their choice. All attempts to deem certain forms of communication and information illegal and remove them must follow established, transparent processes of law and should not involve prior restraint.
>>  
>> Security and Securitization
>> CS opposes efforts to militarize the Internet, or any actions that would foster a destructive and wasteful cyber arms race among governments and/or private actors. We consider the surreptitious use of exploits and malware for surveillance or attacks to be criminal regardless of whether they are deployed by governments, private corporations or organized criminals. We are skeptical of efforts to subordinate the design and use of information and communication technology to "national security" agendas. We believe that Internet security will be achieved primarily at the operational level and that national security and military agendas often work against rather than for users' security needs.
>>  
>> Multistakeholderism
>> Global governance institutions should not be restricted to states, so CS welcomes the additional participation in global policy making that multi-stakeholder processes provide. But CS cautions that multi-stakeholder participation is not an end in itself.  Opening up global governance institutions to additional voices from civil society and business does not by itself ensure that individual rights are adequately protected or that the best substantive policies are developed and enforced. In the informal spaces created by MS institutions, it is possible that powerful governmental and corporate actors can make deals contrary to the interests of Internet users. MS processes must incorporate and institutionalize concepts of due process, separation of powers and user's inalienable civil and political rights.
>>  
>> Milton L. Mueller
>> Professor, Syracuse University School of Information Studies
>> Internet Governance Project
>> http://blog.internetgovernance.org
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> 
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> 
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> 
>> 
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> 
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> 
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121011/c4305323/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From mueller at syr.edu  Thu Oct 11 11:55:15 2012
From: mueller at syr.edu (Milton L Mueller)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 15:55:15 +0000
Subject: [governance] The ITU/WCIT: Thinking About Internet Regulatory
 Policy From An LDC Perspective?
In-Reply-To: <056001cda79c$6fcd1360$4f673a20$@gmail.com>
References: <056001cda79c$6fcd1360$4f673a20$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD224D926@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>


From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of michael gurstein

I should say that both of these reports are very interesting and contain a wealth of good information, however, the problem that I have with them and particularly the second report is that it so clearly starts off with its policy conclusion and builds a case to support this.

[Milton L Mueller] moan. Yes, indeed. This is a commissioned study, by a consultancy that is in the business of serving the interests of its clients. The substance of the study is not terrible, it makes the standard case for the Internet model as we know it. But still, as someone who does real scholarly studies, I am always irritated by the fact that these kinds of paid-for pieces get 1,000 times more attention than an honest, objective scholarly study, and that even purportedly critical scholars such as yourself seem to take them more seriously than real research simply because it's easier to read and because it arrives on your virtual doorstep so easily and quickly via a publicity machine that generates "buzz"

>From what I am seeing (and Kende's report is as good a signal as any) the Internet biggies are running a bit scared (the term "moral panic" comes to mind) as to what "madness" might come out of the WCIT meeting that the ITU is hosting in December in Dubai.
[Milton L Mueller] As I have argued elsewhere, it is a bit of a panic, and one that has succeeded in stampeding a lot of public interest groups into it as well.

And they are pulling out all the stops in trying to derail any real discussion on how the costs and benefits might be allocated of improving/extending Internet access in and into LDC's and within LDC's to the other 99% or so in those countries who currently have no possible means of access. This is of course because the ITU as the traditional venue for global telecom "governance" includes among its 195 or so Member States a very goodly proportion, probably a majority, who are currently experiencing net costs (including many regimes who see these costs in terms of lost political control) from Internet access and paticularly if attempts at extending access to rural and maginalized populations are taken into consideration, rather than net benefits and not surprisingly they are looking at ways of righting that balance.

[Milton L Mueller] The problem with your perspective, Michael, is that it does indeed represent the classic telecom monopoly perspective which is often held by the governmental Ministries and national telecom monopolies in LDCs. Basically they see international traffic not as an industry that supplies goods and services that benefit the consumers who pay for them, but as a source of monopoly rents that can be soaked to "distribute" wealth to their favored businesses and political causes. This concern with "equitable distribution" inevitably ends up both being massively inefficient and thus stifling growth, while not even achieving equity either, because it will always be a few privileged, well-connected businesses and politicians who benefit from setting up the national toll booths.

I myself am of two minds on this issue.  I well recognize the value/benefits that could flow from Internet access even to the poorest of the poor and the overwhelming benefits that Internet access provides to those for example in civil society who can take advantage of its more or less unlimited free flow of communications and information (including through undermining various repressive political regimes). On the other hand, the unlimited unregulated policy environment advocated by reports like that of Kende and others of that ideological ilk would I think, lead almost directly to a further enrichment of the already stupendously wealthy and overall a signifcant transfer of wealth and benefit from those with the least to those with the most.
[Milton L Mueller] I am glad you are honest about this two-mindedness. Factually, there is just no way around it. The liberalization and deregulation of telecommunications has massively increased access, decreased costs, increased diversity and innovation. The internet never would have happened without it. I know it provides cognitive dissonance for some people, but all you have to do is compare the penetration and price of ICTs before and after liberalization and the contrast will be very, very stark. True, there have been pitfalls here and there, usually due to remnants of monopoly power or not handling the complex transition from monopoly to competition properly, but on the whole the progress has been revolutionary.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121011/a53e8557/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From J.A.K.Cave at warwick.ac.uk  Thu Oct 11 12:24:59 2012
From: J.A.K.Cave at warwick.ac.uk (Cave, Jonathan)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 16:24:59 +0000
Subject: [governance] The ITU/WCIT: Thinking About Internet Regulatory
 Policy From An LDC Perspective?
In-Reply-To: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD224D926@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
References: <056001cda79c$6fcd1360$4f673a20$@gmail.com>
 <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD224D926@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <5DF5E53B27521C46829E04DBEA8E905F48F6ED@DB3PRD0104MB152.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com>

I sit on both sides of this fence (yes, it is uncomfortable sometimes) and see a further issue of governance by proxy or even Potemkin governance. This cuts both ways.

On one side, in many MDCs (the opposite of LDCs) the regulatory relationship with (esp.) incumbent telcos has become corrupted (if that's not too strong a term) by a combination of acknowledge information asymmetry and the use of regulatory traction to encourage the telcos to provide a range of public goods like universal service... The latter may be 'uneconomic' (or the regulators may have become convinced that they are). The central issue may be the conflation of the regulatory and public good provision roles of government, especially in countries without full regulatory independence (independent of government as well as of industry). The interests, evidence, analysis and policies "produced" by governments and by dominant firms may not be distinguishable even to the participants. In addition, the closeness of these relationships may lead to one side getting the bulk of its information from the other, leading to a particularly persistent form of capture. But this applies even to the 'serious academic' folks - if the reward for investigating questions of a contentious nature is access to otherwise unobtainable data and other evidence, and especially where contrasting data may not be so easy to come by or may not even have been recorded, selection bias makes a mockery of scientific rigour. It is one thing to insist that all available evidence be taken into account - this does not help when the 'other side of the story' is not adequately elicited or recorded.

On the other hand, rejecting such analyses and the evidence on which they are based - rather than engaging with them initially on theoretical grounds and eventually on the basis of better evidence - is equally ineffective. How can such evidence be collected? In some cases by conducting natural experiments - and many LDCs are ideally suited for these, especially if the costs are reduced by the value of improved basis for policy decisions (and reducing the distortions due to 'capture').

I don't like the persistence of monopoly or the attempts to parlay incumbency in natural monopoly settings into control over markets where the incumbents do not have a particularly important role to play (e.g. sectors with weak recent and prospective innovation performance playing the innovation card in order to justify subsidy or policy influence in related sectors like the Internet). But I would not automatically assume that there are no forces driving towards monopoly (even if they are only 'tipping' externalities) or that competition supported by policies that minimise such externalities is better than tough-minded utility regulation that captures them in the public interest.

I also see no reason to love persistence in regulatory monopoly. That's why I do love civil society participation. It can make the issues simpler - but hopefully not too simple.

J.

From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Milton L Mueller
Sent: 11 October 2012 17:55
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
Subject: RE: [governance] The ITU/WCIT: Thinking About Internet Regulatory Policy From An LDC Perspective?


From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org<mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org> [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of michael gurstein
I should say that both of these reports are very interesting and contain a wealth of good information, however, the problem that I have with them and particularly the second report is that it so clearly starts off with its policy conclusion and builds a case to support this.

[Milton L Mueller] moan. Yes, indeed. This is a commissioned study, by a consultancy that is in the business of serving the interests of its clients. The substance of the study is not terrible, it makes the standard case for the Internet model as we know it. But still, as someone who does real scholarly studies, I am always irritated by the fact that these kinds of paid-for pieces get 1,000 times more attention than an honest, objective scholarly study, and that even purportedly critical scholars such as yourself seem to take them more seriously than real research simply because it's easier to read and because it arrives on your virtual doorstep so easily and quickly via a publicity machine that generates "buzz"

>From what I am seeing (and Kende's report is as good a signal as any) the Internet biggies are running a bit scared (the term "moral panic" comes to mind) as to what "madness" might come out of the WCIT meeting that the ITU is hosting in December in Dubai.
[Milton L Mueller] As I have argued elsewhere, it is a bit of a panic, and one that has succeeded in stampeding a lot of public interest groups into it as well.

And they are pulling out all the stops in trying to derail any real discussion on how the costs and benefits might be allocated of improving/extending Internet access in and into LDC's and within LDC's to the other 99% or so in those countries who currently have no possible means of access. This is of course because the ITU as the traditional venue for global telecom "governance" includes among its 195 or so Member States a very goodly proportion, probably a majority, who are currently experiencing net costs (including many regimes who see these costs in terms of lost political control) from Internet access and paticularly if attempts at extending access to rural and maginalized populations are taken into consideration, rather than net benefits and not surprisingly they are looking at ways of righting that balance.

[Milton L Mueller] The problem with your perspective, Michael, is that it does indeed represent the classic telecom monopoly perspective which is often held by the governmental Ministries and national telecom monopolies in LDCs. Basically they see international traffic not as an industry that supplies goods and services that benefit the consumers who pay for them, but as a source of monopoly rents that can be soaked to "distribute" wealth to their favored businesses and political causes. This concern with "equitable distribution" inevitably ends up both being massively inefficient and thus stifling growth, while not even achieving equity either, because it will always be a few privileged, well-connected businesses and politicians who benefit from setting up the national toll booths.

I myself am of two minds on this issue.  I well recognize the value/benefits that could flow from Internet access even to the poorest of the poor and the overwhelming benefits that Internet access provides to those for example in civil society who can take advantage of its more or less unlimited free flow of communications and information (including through undermining various repressive political regimes). On the other hand, the unlimited unregulated policy environment advocated by reports like that of Kende and others of that ideological ilk would I think, lead almost directly to a further enrichment of the already stupendously wealthy and overall a signifcant transfer of wealth and benefit from those with the least to those with the most.
[Milton L Mueller] I am glad you are honest about this two-mindedness. Factually, there is just no way around it. The liberalization and deregulation of telecommunications has massively increased access, decreased costs, increased diversity and innovation. The internet never would have happened without it. I know it provides cognitive dissonance for some people, but all you have to do is compare the penetration and price of ICTs before and after liberalization and the contrast will be very, very stark. True, there have been pitfalls here and there, usually due to remnants of monopoly power or not handling the complex transition from monopoly to competition properly, but on the whole the progress has been revolutionary.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121011/d480b8fa/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 16:10:39 2012
From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 08:10:39 +1200
Subject: [governance] Re: Verisign's Patent Application for the Transfer
 of DNSSEC Domains
In-Reply-To: <50752993.3040204@itforchange.net>
References: <CAJwbTiBm24HvNFFqFKDPerUZkMKG5dvFCoLkc1X65uqEDCBnFw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJwbTiAMRJ+jm25ub-WX1cVPrka5HH1Y9hBmJyvkGHu8N=RbuA@mail.gmail.com>
	<50752993.3040204@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <CAJwbTiB_2Z5Dg-8tByPznTzddj+1VaFms=KTFfES_49rPhDW1w@mail.gmail.com>

Dear All,

Here's my perspective:
http://www.circleid.com/posts/20121011_perspective_on_verisign_patent_application_on_domain_transfers/


Kind Regards,
Sala
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121012/6a86d52e/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From otsienomartin at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 12 01:02:31 2012
From: otsienomartin at yahoo.com (Martin McOsieno)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 22:02:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [governance] Interesting story of the never ending ICANN Conflict
 of Interest. This time on .africa?
Message-ID: <1350018151.93184.YahooMailNeo@web164506.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi 

Interesting story of the never ending ICANN
Conflict of Interest. This time on .africa?


http://www.thedomains.com/2012/10/03/dotconnectafrica-sends-third-letter-to-icann-alleging-conflict-of-interest-issues-with-its-board-members-over-africa/ 
http://domainingafrica.com/i-will-win-africa-because-i-have-friends-in-high-places-case-of-conflicted-board-members/ 
 
 Martin
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121011/9fc8c271/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From parminder at itforchange.net  Fri Oct 12 01:58:55 2012
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 11:28:55 +0530
Subject: [governance] Interesting story of the never ending ICANN
 Conflict of Interest. This time on .africa?
In-Reply-To: <1350018151.93184.YahooMailNeo@web164506.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <1350018151.93184.YahooMailNeo@web164506.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5077B19F.1040808@itforchange.net>



On Friday 12 October 2012 10:32 AM, Martin McOsieno wrote:
> Hi
>
> Interesting story of the never ending ICANN Conflict of Interest. This 
> time on .africa?


But isnt the problem of conflict of interest structural to 
multistakeholder (MS) governance (not multistakeholder policy inputs, 
but actual governance) because MS governance is about those who have 
interest (or stake) being part of decision making processes. ICANN board 
and its various decision making committees, for instance, are full of 
people from the domain name industry, an industry that ICANN is supposed 
to regulate. Could one, coming from an old fashioned democratic 
tradition, even think of US's Federal Communications Commission or 
Telecom Regulatory Authority of India having a rep from Verizon or 
Airtel respectively! No, certainly not, it would be unthinkable. But not 
so in the ICANN's world of MSism .

Consequently most conflict of interest talk at ICANN is window dressing, 
when the going, and the press, becomes too blatantly bad, as in the case 
of their former Chairman's misadventures. Otherwise, in the game as 
usual it is interested parties laying global CIR policies all the way, 
and the public or the supposed reps of the public sit in the gallery and 
clap enthusiastically about the untold wonders of MSism.

This is what the outgoing CEO of ICANN had to say

    “Icann must place commercial and financial interests in their
    appropriate context,” said Mr. Beckstrom, who is scheduled to step
    down from his post in July. “How can it do this if all top
    leadership is from the very domain-name industry it is supposed to
    coordinate independently? 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/19/technology/private-fight-at-internet-naming-firm-goes-public.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1332165645-IV28j+gNERC8I8kD5rURmA 


See some examples of an endemic of conflicts of interest in ICANN at 
http://www.internetevolution.com/author.asp?section_id=1072&doc_id=240923 .

Many of you may not have great positive thoughts about the democratic 
system of governance in India, but I can assure you that if any 
governmental/policy organisation in India approached anywhere near the 
conflict of interest mess that ICANN is, it would take one public 
interest litigation to the high court or supreme court to get it folded 
up in a matter of days, even if the government itself does not fold it 
up (which too I am sure it would do on its own).

parminder
>
> http://www.thedomains.com/2012/10/03/dotconnectafrica-sends-third-letter-to-icann-alleging-conflict-of-interest-issues-with-its-board-members-over-africa/ 
> <http://www.thedomains.com/2012/10/03/dotconnectafrica-sends-third-letter-to-icann-alleging-conflict-of-interest-issues-with-its-board-members-over-africa/> 
>
> http://domainingafrica.com/i-will-win-africa-because-i-have-friends-in-high-places-case-of-conflicted-board-members/ 
> <http://domainingafrica.com/i-will-win-africa-because-i-have-friends-in-high-places-case-of-conflicted-board-members/> 
>
>  Martin


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121012/129ed728/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From gurstein at gmail.com  Fri Oct 12 02:46:56 2012
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 15:46:56 +0900
Subject: [governance] The ITU/WCIT: Thinking About Internet Regulatory
 Policy From An LDC Perspective?
In-Reply-To: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD224D926@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
References: <056001cda79c$6fcd1360$4f673a20$@gmail.com> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD224D926@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <000401cda845$99a883a0$ccf98ae0$@gmail.com>

Thanks Milton for your comments and few back to you as well.

 

From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
[mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Milton L Mueller
Sent: 

 

From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
[mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of michael gurstein

I should say that both of these reports are very interesting and contain a
wealth of good information, however, the problem that I have with them and
particularly the second report is that it so clearly starts off with its
policy conclusion and builds a case to support this.

 

[Milton L Mueller] moan. Yes, indeed. This is a commissioned study, by a
consultancy that is in the business of serving the interests of its clients.
The substance of the study is not terrible, it makes the standard case for
the Internet model as we know it. But still, as someone who does real
scholarly studies, I am always irritated by the fact that these kinds of
paid-for pieces get 1,000 times more attention than an honest, objective
scholarly study, and that even purportedly critical scholars such as
yourself seem to take them more seriously than real research simply because
it's easier to read and because it arrives on your virtual doorstep so
easily and quickly via a publicity machine that generates "buzz" 

 

[MG>] Well yes, except that my intention was not "academic" or "scholarly"
but rather to make a critical comment on a "politically" significant
document--i.e. one that will likely (and certainly was intented to)  be read
by political/policy influentials who are very unlikely to come across a
scholarly piece however well structured its methodology or execution. The
point wasn't that it was bad "research" but rather it was ideology
purporting to be research.

 

 

>From what I am seeing (and Kende's report is as good a signal as any) the
Internet biggies are running a bit scared (the term "moral panic" comes to
mind) as to what "madness" might come out of the WCIT meeting that the ITU
is hosting in December in Dubai. 

[Milton L Mueller] As I have argued elsewhere, it is a bit of a panic, and
one that has succeeded in stampeding a lot of public interest groups into it
as well.

 

[MG>] Yes, but likely  something of some sort will happen or be made to
attempt to happen at WCIT and it is useful to have some insight into what
the various players might be thinking (although if one assumes the necessary
irrationality of any position that doesn't start from a total and religious
commitment to ubiquitous "free competitive markets") there probably isn't
any point.

 

 

And they are pulling out all the stops in trying to derail any real
discussion on how the costs and benefits might be allocated of
improving/extending Internet access in and into LDC's and within LDC's to
the other 99% or so in those countries who currently have no possible means
of access. This is of course because the ITU as the traditional venue for
global telecom "governance" includes among its 195 or so Member States a
very goodly proportion, probably a majority, who are currently experiencing
net costs (including many regimes who see these costs in terms of lost
political control) from Internet access and paticularly if attempts at
extending access to rural and maginalized populations are taken into
consideration, rather than net benefits and not surprisingly they are
looking at ways of righting that balance.

 

[Milton L Mueller] The problem with your perspective, Michael, is that it
does indeed represent the classic telecom monopoly perspective which is
often held by the governmental Ministries and national telecom monopolies in
LDCs. Basically they see international traffic not as an industry that
supplies goods and services that benefit the consumers who pay for them, but
as a source of monopoly rents that can be soaked to "distribute" wealth to
their favored businesses and political causes. This concern with "equitable
distribution" inevitably ends up both being massively inefficient and thus
stifling growth, while not even achieving equity either, because it will
always be a few privileged, well-connected businesses and politicians who
benefit from setting up the national toll booths. 

 

[MG>] I know that is your position Milton, which at that level of
ideological pandering/name calling is no different from Kende's argument and
we hear it often enough.  What I would very much like to see though, is some
evidence to back it up. What I'm curious to see, and that was the point of
my original note, is some research/analysis which starts not from a
definition of "benefits" as dictated by Google, Microsoft, and Uncle Tom
digerati and all but rather one which starts from the quite specific policy
contexts and dilemmas of the folks in LDC's who seem to be bearing a rather
large amount of short term cost in the service of purported long term
benefit (and not incidentally alongside rather significant short term
benefits adhering to already extremely well provided for DC beneficiaries).
And if they don't publicly object I will,  not all of those folks or dare I
say even most (countering again some ideological and even should  I say
xenophobic posturing rather than systematic analysis and research on your
part) are as you imply, corrupt and despotic. 

 

 

I myself am of two minds on this issue.  I well recognize the value/benefits
that could flow from Internet access even to the poorest of the poor and the
overwhelming benefits that Internet access provides to those for example in
civil society who can take advantage of its more or less unlimited free flow
of communications and information (including through undermining various
repressive political regimes). On the other hand, the unlimited unregulated
policy environment advocated by reports like that of Kende and others of
that ideological ilk would I think, lead almost directly to a further
enrichment of the already stupendously wealthy and overall a signifcant
transfer of wealth and benefit from those with the least to those with the
most.

[Milton L Mueller] I am glad you are honest about this two-mindedness.
Factually, there is just no way around it. The liberalization and
deregulation of telecommunications has massively increased access, decreased
costs, increased diversity and innovation. 

 

[MG>] For some certainly, but I'm wondering who have been the net
beneficiaries and whether those who haven't benefited directly have in fact
borne some of the cost of those benefits. I don't know, maybe they have,
maybe they haven't but neither Kende or you have offered much beyond
ideology and bluster in that regard.

 

 

The internet never would have happened without it. I know it provides
cognitive dissonance for some people, but all you have to do is compare the
penetration and price of ICTs before and after liberalization and the
contrast will be very, very stark. True, there have been pitfalls here and
there, usually due to remnants of monopoly power or not handling the complex
transition from monopoly to competition properly, but on the whole the
progress has been revolutionary. 

 

[MG>] You are probably right but I would like a bit more evidence than your
assertion and I would also like some analysis of the costs involved and also
an analysis of how those costs (and benefits) have been and are being
distributed and then an analysis of what might be required to ensure that
there has been some benefits distributed beyond the usual cast of
characters.  I know that you and I have benefited but I'm rather less sure
about the folks living in Khayalitcha and even less for the cattle herders
in Burkina Faso and I mean now not in a never never land future. And as an
outcome I'ld like to see an analysis which isn't zero sum (regulation or no
regulation) as you seem to suggest is necessary. Rather the question shoud
be what sort of regime (without regulation and or with what type of
regulation of what elements of the overall Internet technical ecology).

 

Mike 

 

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121012/2460e706/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From nashton at consensus.pro  Fri Oct 12 03:01:26 2012
From: nashton at consensus.pro (Nick Ashton-Hart)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 07:01:26 +0000
Subject: [governance] The ITU/WCIT: Thinking About Internet Regulatory
 Policy From An LDC Perspective?
In-Reply-To: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD224D926@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
References: <056001cda79c$6fcd1360$4f673a20$@gmail.com> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD224D926@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <0000013a53c7146c-90bff212-c6fd-44fb-b7ad-2e59b53115a0-000000@email.amazonses.com>

Dear Milton,

Every study ever written was paid for by someone. It is true that some paymasters attach more strings, and are looking for more specific outcomes, than others. Suggesting that all 'commissioned' studies are not 'real scholarly studies' seems like a pretty large generalisation based more on prejudice than anything else.

I've read very biased commissioned studies, and very biased 'real' scholarly studies. I've read scholarly studies written by people who have no practical experience of the area they write of and as a consequence turn 1+1 into 5 (candidly, speaking generally, I find studies done purely by academics more likely to be divorced from the world at large than commissioned ones, but then, I may be displaying my own biases about the academic world, who knows? ;)


On 11 Oct 2012, at 17:55, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu> wrote:

> [Milton L Mueller] moan. Yes, indeed. This is a commissioned study, by a consultancy that is in the business of serving the interests of its clients. The substance of the study is not terrible, it makes the standard case for the Internet model as we know it. But still, as someone who does real scholarly studies, I am always irritated by the fact that these kinds of paid-for pieces get 1,000 times more attention than an honest, objective scholarly study, and that even purportedly 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121012/350d3cb6/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From apisan at unam.mx  Fri Oct 12 03:11:32 2012
From: apisan at unam.mx (Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 07:11:32 +0000
Subject: [governance] The ITU/WCIT: Thinking About Internet Regulatory
 Policy From An LDC Perspective?
In-Reply-To: <000401cda845$99a883a0$ccf98ae0$@gmail.com>
References: <056001cda79c$6fcd1360$4f673a20$@gmail.com>
 <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD224D926@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>,<000401cda845$99a883a0$ccf98ae0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D59EDE44D@W8-EX10MB.unam.local>

Michael,

brief in order to be quick (& viceversa):

I think evidence is accumulating for a regime based on a combination of market/opening/deregulation and state intervention in developing countries, combinations that are specific to each country to a significant extent.

Thus you see successful (metric to follow) state interventions in countries like Colombia in which a market supplies connectivity and higher-layer Internet services to a larga part of the population and the state comes in for the poorest or most disadvantaged, especially in the lower layers. Connectivity and access tend to be Layer 1-Layer 2 issues, need significant investments, and naturally allow few players.

Internet-based benefits beyond pure connectivity accrue in many ways, are more anecdotal, and have not yet widely been assessed from an economic-theory point of view. Children and teenagers in schools are effective intermediaries for the more marginalized populations's access to the **benefits** of Internet access. They carry home back from schools in rural or urban-disadvantaged areas knowledge and action (from MP3 videos on portable devices for their illiterate grandmothers to explore themselves against breast cancer to actual red-tape before development banks.)

In higher layers like intellectual property a combination of institutional, private, and small-scale/dispersed efforts are bringing access to knowledge to the masses. In Mexico opening up the sound archives (Fonoteca Nacional, with music, speech, radio programs, and even environmental sounds "intangible heritage") is one example of this. The struggle against ACTA and worse also plays a role here.

This is far more active than trickle-down theory, as well as not waiting for an approach you can first neatly pigeon-hole theoretically.

Another example of fast-changing paradigm which defies the neat structures you and Milton are discussing is in a new breed of IXPs which are now becoming attractive as seats for CDNs as well. So, state pushed or not, small IXPs begin at Layer 1/2 and suddenly attract content distribution, lowering entry barriers for users and producers of all kinds. Regulated? NOT, no,  thank you!!

Atop all this often state actors and large-telco reps continue to grab at straws and look to oracles while the Internet continues to dissolve the neatness of their paradigms, rents, and the axles of their revolving-door collusions.

Yours,

Alejandro Pisanty


! !! !!! !!!!
NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO



+52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD

+525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO

SMS +525541444475
     Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico

Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
.  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .

________________________________
Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de michael gurstein [gurstein at gmail.com]
Enviado el: viernes, 12 de octubre de 2012 01:46
Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; 'Milton L Mueller'
Asunto: RE: [governance] The ITU/WCIT: Thinking About Internet Regulatory Policy From An LDC Perspective?

Thanks Milton for your comments and few back to you as well…

From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Milton L Mueller
Sent:

From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org<mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org> [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of michael gurstein
I should say that both of these reports are very interesting and contain a wealth of good information, however, the problem that I have with them and particularly the second report is that it so clearly starts off with its policy conclusion and builds a case to support this.

[Milton L Mueller] moan. Yes, indeed. This is a commissioned study, by a consultancy that is in the business of serving the interests of its clients. The substance of the study is not terrible, it makes the standard case for the Internet model as we know it. But still, as someone who does real scholarly studies, I am always irritated by the fact that these kinds of paid-for pieces get 1,000 times more attention than an honest, objective scholarly study, and that even purportedly critical scholars such as yourself seem to take them more seriously than real research simply because it’s easier to read and because it arrives on your virtual doorstep so easily and quickly via a publicity machine that generates “buzz”

[MG>] Well yes, except that my intention was not "academic" or "scholarly" but rather to make a critical comment on a "politically" significant document--i.e. one that will likely (and certainly was intented to)  be read by political/policy influentials who are very unlikely to come across a scholarly piece however well structured its methodology or execution. The point wasn't that it was bad "research" but rather it was ideology purporting to be research.


>From what I am seeing (and Kende's report is as good a signal as any) the Internet biggies are running a bit scared (the term "moral panic" comes to mind) as to what "madness" might come out of the WCIT meeting that the ITU is hosting in December in Dubai.
[Milton L Mueller] As I have argued elsewhere, it is a bit of a panic, and one that has succeeded in stampeding a lot of public interest groups into it as well.

[MG>] Yes, but likely  something of some sort will happen or be made to attempt to happen at WCIT and it is useful to have some insight into what the various players might be thinking (although if one assumes the necessary irrationality of any position that doesn't start from a total and religious commitment to ubiquitous "free competitive markets") there probably isn't any point…


And they are pulling out all the stops in trying to derail any real discussion on how the costs and benefits might be allocated of improving/extending Internet access in and into LDC's and within LDC's to the other 99% or so in those countries who currently have no possible means of access. This is of course because the ITU as the traditional venue for global telecom "governance" includes among its 195 or so Member States a very goodly proportion, probably a majority, who are currently experiencing net costs (including many regimes who see these costs in terms of lost political control) from Internet access and paticularly if attempts at extending access to rural and maginalized populations are taken into consideration, rather than net benefits and not surprisingly they are looking at ways of righting that balance.

[Milton L Mueller] The problem with your perspective, Michael, is that it does indeed represent the classic telecom monopoly perspective which is often held by the governmental Ministries and national telecom monopolies in LDCs. Basically they see international traffic not as an industry that supplies goods and services that benefit the consumers who pay for them, but as a source of monopoly rents that can be soaked to “distribute” wealth to their favored businesses and political causes. This concern with “equitable distribution” inevitably ends up both being massively inefficient and thus stifling growth, while not even achieving equity either, because it will always be a few privileged, well-connected businesses and politicians who benefit from setting up the national toll booths.

[MG>] I know that is your position Milton, which at that level of ideological pandering/name calling is no different from Kende's argument and we hear it often enough.  What I would very much like to see though, is some evidence to back it up. What I'm curious to see, and that was the point of my original note, is some research/analysis which starts not from a definition of "benefits" as dictated by Google, Microsoft, and Uncle Tom digerati and all but rather one which starts from the quite specific policy contexts and dilemmas of the folks in LDC's who seem to be bearing a rather large amount of short term cost in the service of purported long term benefit (and not incidentally alongside rather significant short term benefits adhering to already extremely well provided for DC beneficiaries). And if they don't publicly object I will,  not all of those folks or dare I say even most (countering again some ideological and even should  I say xenophobic posturing rather than systematic analysis and research on your part) are as you imply, corrupt and despotic.


I myself am of two minds on this issue.  I well recognize the value/benefits that could flow from Internet access even to the poorest of the poor and the overwhelming benefits that Internet access provides to those for example in civil society who can take advantage of its more or less unlimited free flow of communications and information (including through undermining various repressive political regimes). On the other hand, the unlimited unregulated policy environment advocated by reports like that of Kende and others of that ideological ilk would I think, lead almost directly to a further enrichment of the already stupendously wealthy and overall a signifcant transfer of wealth and benefit from those with the least to those with the most.
[Milton L Mueller] I am glad you are honest about this two-mindedness. Factually, there is just no way around it. The liberalization and deregulation of telecommunications has massively increased access, decreased costs, increased diversity and innovation.

[MG>] For some certainly, but I'm wondering who have been the net beneficiaries and whether those who haven't benefited directly have in fact borne some of the cost of those benefits… I don't know, maybe they have, maybe they haven't but neither Kende or you have offered much beyond ideology and bluster in that regard.


The internet never would have happened without it. I know it provides cognitive dissonance for some people, but all you have to do is compare the penetration and price of ICTs before and after liberalization and the contrast will be very, very stark. True, there have been pitfalls here and there, usually due to remnants of monopoly power or not handling the complex transition from monopoly to competition properly, but on the whole the progress has been revolutionary.

[MG>] You are probably right but I would like a bit more evidence than your assertion and I would also like some analysis of the costs involved and also an analysis of how those costs (and benefits) have been and are being distributed and then an analysis of what might be required to ensure that there has been some benefits distributed beyond the usual cast of characters.  I know that you and I have benefited but I'm rather less sure about the folks living in Khayalitcha and even less for the cattle herders in Burkina Faso and I mean now not in a never never land future. And as an outcome I'ld like to see an analysis which isn't zero sum (regulation or no regulation) as you seem to suggest is necessary. Rather the question shoud be what sort of regime (without regulation and or with what type of regulation of what elements of the overall Internet technical ecology).

Mike


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121012/19275831/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From karim.attoumanimohamed at ties.itu.int  Fri Oct 12 03:10:35 2012
From: karim.attoumanimohamed at ties.itu.int (karim.attoumanimohamed at ties.itu.int)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 09:10:35 +0200
Subject: [governance] Interesting story of the never ending ICANN
 Conflict of Interest. This time on .africa?
In-Reply-To: <1350018151.93184.YahooMailNeo@web164506.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <1350018151.93184.YahooMailNeo@web164506.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20121012091035.13522zlmse1dutm3@mail1.itu.ch>

Colleagues,

I mean there are many cases that can be used to illustrate the  
conflict of interest within ICANN and not the .Africa (to  
differentiate from .DotAfrica)

If we refer to strings submited to this first round, we can note a  
demand for the string africa (applicant id 1-1243-89583) and another  
one dotafrica (1-1165-42560). I wonder why write these kinds of  
articles would hear in a conflict between two entities for africa  
string that does not exist. I agree that we must avoid conflicts of  
interest, but for the .Africa, this conflict should not exist.

I’m sure people who have applied for the DotAfrica (as string) knew  
they had lost in advance the africa!

http://newgtlds.icann.org/en/program-status/application-results/strings-1200utc-13jun12-en

Karim, Comores

Quoting Martin McOsieno <otsienomartin at yahoo.com>:

> Hi 
>
> Interesting story of the never ending ICANN
> Conflict of Interest. This time on .africa?
>
>
> http://www.thedomains.com/2012/10/03/dotconnectafrica-sends-third-letter-to-icann-alleging-conflict-of-interest-issues-with-its-board-members-over-africa/ 
> http://domainingafrica.com/i-will-win-africa-because-i-have-friends-in-high-places-case-of-conflicted-board-members/ 
>  
>  Martin




-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From dogwallah at gmail.com  Fri Oct 12 08:14:13 2012
From: dogwallah at gmail.com (McTim)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 08:14:13 -0400
Subject: [governance] Interesting story of the never ending ICANN
 Conflict of Interest. This time on .africa?
In-Reply-To: <1350018151.93184.YahooMailNeo@web164506.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <1350018151.93184.YahooMailNeo@web164506.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CACAaNxjpaUPtrRe1shp0CUoJZ0YgSU=c7ot8GtFsum527wgOJg@mail.gmail.com>

To be fair, the folks doing the alleging say they have written 3 letters to
ICANN, but none of them appear in the correspondence section of the ICANN
website, so we don't have any basis to judge IF there is a COI.

It seems to me to be a desperate move to try to give themselves a basis
upon which to appeal/litigate when they lose .africa (as they messed up and
applied for .dotafrica instead).


-- 
Cheers,

McTim
"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route
indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel




On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 1:02 AM, Martin McOsieno <otsienomartin at yahoo.com>wrote:

> Hi
>
> Interesting story of the never ending ICANN Conflict of Interest. This
> time on .africa?
>
> http://www.thedomains.com/**2012/10/03/dotconnectafrica-**
> sends-third-letter-to-icann-**alleging-conflict-of-interest-**
> issues-with-its-board-members-**over-africa/<http://www.thedomains.com/2012/10/03/dotconnectafrica-sends-third-letter-to-icann-alleging-conflict-of-interest-issues-with-its-board-members-over-africa/>
>
>  http://domainingafrica.com/i-**will-win-africa-because-i-**
> have-friends-in-high-places-**case-of-conflicted-board-**members/<http://domainingafrica.com/i-will-win-africa-because-i-have-friends-in-high-places-case-of-conflicted-board-members/>
>
>
>  Martin
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121012/6440c9f2/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From apisan at unam.mx  Fri Oct 12 09:11:54 2012
From: apisan at unam.mx (Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 13:11:54 +0000
Subject: [governance] Interesting story of the never ending ICANN
 Conflict of Interest. This time on .africa?
In-Reply-To: <CACAaNxjpaUPtrRe1shp0CUoJZ0YgSU=c7ot8GtFsum527wgOJg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1350018151.93184.YahooMailNeo@web164506.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>,<CACAaNxjpaUPtrRe1shp0CUoJZ0YgSU=c7ot8GtFsum527wgOJg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D59EDF600@W8-EX10MB.unam.local>

McTim,

the claims are vague enough to be consistent with "one more turn of the extortion screw", which works especially well if readers of the press don't apply critical skills in a timely manner.

Yours,

Alejandro Pisanty


! !! !!! !!!!
NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO



+52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD

+525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO

SMS +525541444475
     Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico

Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
.  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .

________________________________
Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de McTim [dogwallah at gmail.com]
Enviado el: viernes, 12 de octubre de 2012 07:14
Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Martin McOsieno
Asunto: Re: [governance] Interesting story of the never ending ICANN Conflict of Interest. This time on .africa?

To be fair, the folks doing the alleging say they have written 3 letters to ICANN, but none of them appear in the correspondence section of the ICANN website, so we don't have any basis to judge IF there is a COI.

It seems to me to be a desperate move to try to give themselves a basis upon which to appeal/litigate when they lose .africa (as they messed up and applied for .dotafrica instead).


--
Cheers,

McTim
"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel




On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 1:02 AM, Martin McOsieno <otsienomartin at yahoo.com<mailto:otsienomartin at yahoo.com>> wrote:
Hi

Interesting story of the never ending ICANN Conflict of Interest. This time on .africa?

[X]http://www.thedomains.com/2012/10/03/dotconnectafrica-sends-third-letter-to-icann-alleging-conflict-of-interest-issues-with-its-board-members-over-africa/
http://domainingafrica.com/i-will-win-africa-because-i-have-friends-in-high-places-case-of-conflicted-board-members/

 Martin

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org<mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t




-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121012/04f3fdc1/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From otsienomartin at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 12 12:46:20 2012
From: otsienomartin at yahoo.com (Martin McOsieno)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 09:46:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [governance] Interesting story of the never ending ICANN
 Conflict of Interest. This time on .africa?
In-Reply-To: <CACAaNxjpaUPtrRe1shp0CUoJZ0YgSU=c7ot8GtFsum527wgOJg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1350018151.93184.YahooMailNeo@web164506.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <CACAaNxjpaUPtrRe1shp0CUoJZ0YgSU=c7ot8GtFsum527wgOJg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1350060380.12782.YahooMailNeo@web164503.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi,

I went to the DotConnectAfrica and in their correspondence to ICANN all letters are found here in this link : http://www.dotconnectafrica.org/icann-related-2/icann-outreach-and-participation/letters-to-icann/ .

I have read the letters and i think IMHO there is conflict of interest at all levels.

Thanks
Martin.




________________________________
 From: McTim <dogwallah at gmail.com>
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Martin McOsieno <otsienomartin at yahoo.com> 
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: [governance] Interesting story of the never ending ICANN Conflict of Interest. This time on .africa?
 

To be fair, the folks doing the alleging say they have written 3 letters to ICANN, but none of them appear in the correspondence section of the ICANN website, so we don't have any basis to judge IF there is a COI.

It seems to me to be a desperate move to try to give themselves a basis upon which to appeal/litigate when they lose .africa (as they messed up and applied for .dotafrica instead).


-- 
Cheers,

McTim
"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel






On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 1:02 AM, Martin McOsieno <otsienomartin at yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi 
>
>
>Interesting story of the never ending ICANN
Conflict of Interest. This time on .africa?
>
>
>http://www.thedomains.com/2012/10/03/dotconnectafrica-sends-third-letter-to-icann-alleging-conflict-of-interest-issues-with-its-board-members-over-africa/ 
>http://domainingafrica.com/i-will-win-africa-because-i-have-friends-in-high-places-case-of-conflicted-board-members/  
> Martin
>____________________________________________________________
>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
>For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
>Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>



____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
    http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121012/689c9ff6/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From gurstein at gmail.com  Fri Oct 12 12:47:17 2012
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 23:47:17 +0700
Subject: [governance] The ITU/WCIT: Thinking About Internet Regulatory
 Policy From An LDC Perspective?
In-Reply-To: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D59EDE44D@W8-EX10MB.unam.local>
References: <056001cda79c$6fcd1360$4f673a20$@gmail.com> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD224D926@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>,<000401cda845$99a883a0$ccf98ae0$@gmail.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D59EDE44D@W8-EX10MB.unam.local>
Message-ID: <02c701cda899$3f79ec30$be6dc490$@gmail.com>

Excellent Alejandro, that is the type of nuanced and non-ideological
thinking/policy analysis that I think is necessary in the discussions
leading up to the WCIT and beyond. And I completely agree that the
particular mix will vary from country to country depending on a range of
circumstances including existing infrastructure, economc/geographical
constraints, socio-economic (political and other) imperatives and so on.

 

The problem of course, comes in when folks insist on a market-good,
state-bad blunderbuss (and ideolog based) approach.

 

M

 

From: Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch [mailto:apisan at unam.mx] 
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 2:12 PM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; michael gurstein; 'Milton L Mueller'
Subject: RE: [governance] The ITU/WCIT: Thinking About Internet Regulatory
Policy From An LDC Perspective?

 

Michael, 

 

brief in order to be quick (& viceversa):

 

I think evidence is accumulating for a regime based on a combination of
market/opening/deregulation and state intervention in developing countries,
combinations that are specific to each country to a significant extent.

 

Thus you see successful (metric to follow) state interventions in countries
like Colombia in which a market supplies connectivity and higher-layer
Internet services to a larga part of the population and the state comes in
for the poorest or most disadvantaged, especially in the lower layers.
Connectivity and access tend to be Layer 1-Layer 2 issues, need significant
investments, and naturally allow few players.

 

Internet-based benefits beyond pure connectivity accrue in many ways, are
more anecdotal, and have not yet widely been assessed from an
economic-theory point of view. Children and teenagers in schools are
effective intermediaries for the more marginalized populations's access to
the **benefits** of Internet access. They carry home back from schools in
rural or urban-disadvantaged areas knowledge and action (from MP3 videos on
portable devices for their illiterate grandmothers to explore themselves
against breast cancer to actual red-tape before development banks.) 

 

In higher layers like intellectual property a combination of institutional,
private, and small-scale/dispersed efforts are bringing access to knowledge
to the masses. In Mexico opening up the sound archives (Fonoteca Nacional,
with music, speech, radio programs, and even environmental sounds
"intangible heritage") is one example of this. The struggle against ACTA and
worse also plays a role here. 

 

This is far more active than trickle-down theory, as well as not waiting for
an approach you can first neatly pigeon-hole theoretically. 

 

Another example of fast-changing paradigm which defies the neat structures
you and Milton are discussing is in a new breed of IXPs which are now
becoming attractive as seats for CDNs as well. So, state pushed or not,
small IXPs begin at Layer 1/2 and suddenly attract content distribution,
lowering entry barriers for users and producers of all kinds. Regulated?
NOT, no,  thank you!!

 

Atop all this often state actors and large-telco reps continue to grab at
straws and look to oracles while the Internet continues to dissolve the
neatness of their paradigms, rents, and the axles of their revolving-door
collusions.

 

Yours,

 

Alejandro Pisanty

 

   

! !! !!! !!!!

NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO

 

+52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD 

+525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO 

SMS +525541444475 
     Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico

Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,
http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
.  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  . 

  _____  

Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
[governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de michael gurstein
[gurstein at gmail.com]
Enviado el: viernes, 12 de octubre de 2012 01:46
Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; 'Milton L Mueller'
Asunto: RE: [governance] The ITU/WCIT: Thinking About Internet Regulatory
Policy From An LDC Perspective?

Thanks Milton for your comments and few back to you as well


 

From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
[mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Milton L Mueller
Sent: 

 

From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
[mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of michael gurstein

I should say that both of these reports are very interesting and contain a
wealth of good information, however, the problem that I have with them and
particularly the second report is that it so clearly starts off with its
policy conclusion and builds a case to support this.

 

[Milton L Mueller] moan. Yes, indeed. This is a commissioned study, by a
consultancy that is in the business of serving the interests of its clients.
The substance of the study is not terrible, it makes the standard case for
the Internet model as we know it. But still, as someone who does real
scholarly studies, I am always irritated by the fact that these kinds of
paid-for pieces get 1,000 times more attention than an honest, objective
scholarly study, and that even purportedly critical scholars such as
yourself seem to take them more seriously than real research simply because
it’s easier to read and because it arrives on your virtual doorstep so
easily and quickly via a publicity machine that generates “buzz” 

 

[MG>] Well yes, except that my intention was not "academic" or "scholarly"
but rather to make a critical comment on a "politically" significant
document--i.e. one that will likely (and certainly was intented to)  be read
by political/policy influentials who are very unlikely to come across a
scholarly piece however well structured its methodology or execution. The
point wasn't that it was bad "research" but rather it was ideology
purporting to be research.

 

 

>From what I am seeing (and Kende's report is as good a signal as any) the
Internet biggies are running a bit scared (the term "moral panic" comes to
mind) as to what "madness" might come out of the WCIT meeting that the ITU
is hosting in December in Dubai. 

[Milton L Mueller] As I have argued elsewhere, it is a bit of a panic, and
one that has succeeded in stampeding a lot of public interest groups into it
as well.

 

[MG>] Yes, but likely  something of some sort will happen or be made to
attempt to happen at WCIT and it is useful to have some insight into what
the various players might be thinking (although if one assumes the necessary
irrationality of any position that doesn't start from a total and religious
commitment to ubiquitous "free competitive markets") there probably isn't
any point


 

 

And they are pulling out all the stops in trying to derail any real
discussion on how the costs and benefits might be allocated of
improving/extending Internet access in and into LDC's and within LDC's to
the other 99% or so in those countries who currently have no possible means
of access. This is of course because the ITU as the traditional venue for
global telecom "governance" includes among its 195 or so Member States a
very goodly proportion, probably a majority, who are currently experiencing
net costs (including many regimes who see these costs in terms of lost
political control) from Internet access and paticularly if attempts at
extending access to rural and maginalized populations are taken into
consideration, rather than net benefits and not surprisingly they are
looking at ways of righting that balance.

 

[Milton L Mueller] The problem with your perspective, Michael, is that it
does indeed represent the classic telecom monopoly perspective which is
often held by the governmental Ministries and national telecom monopolies in
LDCs. Basically they see international traffic not as an industry that
supplies goods and services that benefit the consumers who pay for them, but
as a source of monopoly rents that can be soaked to “distribute” wealth to
their favored businesses and political causes. This concern with “equitable
distribution” inevitably ends up both being massively inefficient and thus
stifling growth, while not even achieving equity either, because it will
always be a few privileged, well-connected businesses and politicians who
benefit from setting up the national toll booths. 

 

[MG>] I know that is your position Milton, which at that level of
ideological pandering/name calling is no different from Kende's argument and
we hear it often enough.  What I would very much like to see though, is some
evidence to back it up. What I'm curious to see, and that was the point of
my original note, is some research/analysis which starts not from a
definition of "benefits" as dictated by Google, Microsoft, and Uncle Tom
digerati and all but rather one which starts from the quite specific policy
contexts and dilemmas of the folks in LDC's who seem to be bearing a rather
large amount of short term cost in the service of purported long term
benefit (and not incidentally alongside rather significant short term
benefits adhering to already extremely well provided for DC beneficiaries).
And if they don't publicly object I will,  not all of those folks or dare I
say even most (countering again some ideological and even should  I say
xenophobic posturing rather than systematic analysis and research on your
part) are as you imply, corrupt and despotic. 

 

 

I myself am of two minds on this issue.  I well recognize the value/benefits
that could flow from Internet access even to the poorest of the poor and the
overwhelming benefits that Internet access provides to those for example in
civil society who can take advantage of its more or less unlimited free flow
of communications and information (including through undermining various
repressive political regimes). On the other hand, the unlimited unregulated
policy environment advocated by reports like that of Kende and others of
that ideological ilk would I think, lead almost directly to a further
enrichment of the already stupendously wealthy and overall a signifcant
transfer of wealth and benefit from those with the least to those with the
most.

[Milton L Mueller] I am glad you are honest about this two-mindedness.
Factually, there is just no way around it. The liberalization and
deregulation of telecommunications has massively increased access, decreased
costs, increased diversity and innovation. 

 

[MG>] For some certainly, but I'm wondering who have been the net
beneficiaries and whether those who haven't benefited directly have in fact
borne some of the cost of those benefits
 I don't know, maybe they have,
maybe they haven't but neither Kende or you have offered much beyond
ideology and bluster in that regard.

 

 

The internet never would have happened without it. I know it provides
cognitive dissonance for some people, but all you have to do is compare the
penetration and price of ICTs before and after liberalization and the
contrast will be very, very stark. True, there have been pitfalls here and
there, usually due to remnants of monopoly power or not handling the complex
transition from monopoly to competition properly, but on the whole the
progress has been revolutionary. 

 

[MG>] You are probably right but I would like a bit more evidence than your
assertion and I would also like some analysis of the costs involved and also
an analysis of how those costs (and benefits) have been and are being
distributed and then an analysis of what might be required to ensure that
there has been some benefits distributed beyond the usual cast of
characters.  I know that you and I have benefited but I'm rather less sure
about the folks living in Khayalitcha and even less for the cattle herders
in Burkina Faso and I mean now not in a never never land future. And as an
outcome I'ld like to see an analysis which isn't zero sum (regulation or no
regulation) as you seem to suggest is necessary. Rather the question shoud
be what sort of regime (without regulation and or with what type of
regulation of what elements of the overall Internet technical ecology).

 

Mike 

 

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121012/3a35d617/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From jlfullsack at wanadoo.fr  Fri Oct 12 13:04:25 2012
From: jlfullsack at wanadoo.fr (jlfullsack at wanadoo.fr)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 19:04:25 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [governance] Interesting story of the never ending ICANN
 Conflict of Interest. This time on .africa?
In-Reply-To: <5077B19F.1040808@itforchange.net>
References: <1350018151.93184.YahooMailNeo@web164506.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
 <5077B19F.1040808@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <1626585411.27521.1350061465235.JavaMail.www@wwinf1d19>

Many thanks to both Martin for his valuable information (BTW : who were our African fellows ? Already in Baku ?) and Parminder for its contextualization and -as usual- his complementary comments.

 

warm regards

 

Jean-Louis Fullsack






> Message du 12/10/12 08:00
> De : "parminder" 
> A : governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> Copie à : 
> Objet : Re: [governance] Interesting story of the never ending ICANN Conflict of Interest. This time on .africa?
> 
>
> 
> 
On Friday 12 October 2012 10:32 AM, Martin McOsieno wrote:
>


Hi 

>
Interesting story of the never ending ICANN Conflict of Interest. This time on .africa?
> 



> 
> But isnt the problem of conflict of interest structural to multistakeholder (MS) governance (not multistakeholder policy inputs, but actual governance) because MS governance is about those who have interest (or stake) being part of decision making processes. ICANN board and its various decision making committees, for instance, are full of people from the domain name industry, an industry that ICANN is supposed to regulate. Could one, coming from an old fashioned democratic tradition, even think of US's Federal Communications Commission or Telecom Regulatory Authority of India having a rep from Verizon or Airtel respectively! No, certainly not, it would be unthinkable. But not so in the ICANN's world of MSism . 
> 
> Consequently most conflict of interest talk at ICANN is window dressing, when the going, and the press, becomes too blatantly bad, as in the case of their former Chairman's misadventures. Otherwise, in the game as usual it is interested parties laying global CIR policies all the way, and the public or the supposed reps of the public sit in the gallery and clap enthusiastically about the untold wonders of MSism.
> 
> This is what the outgoing CEO of ICANN had to say
> 
“Icann must place commercial and financial interests in their appropriate context,” said Mr. Beckstrom, who is scheduled to step down from his post in July. “How can it do this if all top leadership is from the very domain-name industry it is supposed to coordinate independently?
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/19/technology/private-fight-at-internet-naming-firm-goes-public.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1332165645-IV28j+gNERC8I8kD5rURmA 
> 
> See some examples of an endemic of conflicts of interest in ICANN at http://www.internetevolution.com/author.asp?section_id=1072&doc_id=240923 .
> 
> Many of you may not have great positive thoughts about the democratic system of governance in India, but I can assure you that if any governmental/policy organisation in India approached anywhere near the conflict of interest mess that ICANN is, it would take one public interest litigation to the high court or supreme court to get it folded up in a matter of days, even if the government itself does not fold it up (which too I am sure it would do on its own).
> 
> parminder 
>



> 

http://www.thedomains.com/2012/10/03/dotconnectafrica-sends-third-letter-to-icann-alleging-conflict-of-interest-issues-with-its-board-members-over-africa/ 


http://domainingafrica.com/i-will-win-africa-because-i-have-friends-in-high-places-case-of-conflicted-board-members/ 
 
 Martin



> 
>


____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121012/262cb8e7/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From mueller at syr.edu  Fri Oct 12 15:44:58 2012
From: mueller at syr.edu (Milton L Mueller)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 19:44:58 +0000
Subject: [governance] The ITU/WCIT: Thinking About Internet Regulatory
 Policy From An LDC Perspective?
In-Reply-To: <000401cda845$99a883a0$ccf98ae0$@gmail.com>
References: <056001cda79c$6fcd1360$4f673a20$@gmail.com>
 <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD224D926@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
 <000401cda845$99a883a0$ccf98ae0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD224EAF7@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>



Michael
There is a vast literature on telecommunications liberalization and privatization's effects. If you have not seen evidence to back up the arguments about the effects, it is not because it doesn't exist. Here are some samples:

The Impact of Privatization and Competition in the Telecommunications Sector Around the World
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=364140

Telecommunications Liberalization on Two Sides of the Atlantic
http://muse.jhu.edu/books/9780815798781

The institutional environment and effects of telecommunication privatization and market liberalization in Asia
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0308596100000665

The productivity effects of the liberalization of Japanese telecommunication policy http://www.springerlink.com/content/r48142651763j8hv/

I include the abstract from this article, which summarizes the consensus of much of this research

An Econometric Analysis of Telecom Competition, Privatization, and Regulation in Africa and Latin America.
The Journal of Industrial Economics. Volume 49, Issue 1, pages 1-19, March 2001

This paper explores the effects of privatization, competition, and regulation on telecommunications performance in 30 African and Latin American countries from 1984 through 1997. Fixed-effects regressions reveal that competition is correlated with increases in the per capita number of mainlines, payphones, and connection capacity, and with decreases in the price of local calls. Privatization combined with an independent regulator is positively correlated with telecom performance measures. Privatization alone, however, is associated with few benefits, and is negatively correlated with connection capacity.



[MG>] I know that is your position Milton, which at that level of ideological pandering/name calling is no different from Kende's argument and we hear it often enough.  What I would very much like to see though, is some evidence to back it up. What I'm curious to see, and that was the point of my original note, is some research/analysis which starts not from a definition of "benefits" as dictated by Google, Microsoft, and Uncle Tom digerati and all but rather one which starts from the quite specific policy contexts and dilemmas of the folks in LDC's who seem to be bearing a rather large amount of short term cost in the service of purported long term benefit (and not incidentally alongside rather significant short term benefits adhering to already extremely well provided for DC beneficiaries). And if they don't publicly object I will,  not all of those folks or dare I say even most (countering again some ideological and even should  I say xenophobic posturing rather than systematic analysis and research on your part) are as you imply, corrupt and despotic.


I myself am of two minds on this issue.  I well recognize the value/benefits that could flow from Internet access even to the poorest of the poor and the overwhelming benefits that Internet access provides to those for example in civil society who can take advantage of its more or less unlimited free flow of communications and information (including through undermining various repressive political regimes). On the other hand, the unlimited unregulated policy environment advocated by reports like that of Kende and others of that ideological ilk would I think, lead almost directly to a further enrichment of the already stupendously wealthy and overall a signifcant transfer of wealth and benefit from those with the least to those with the most.
[Milton L Mueller] I am glad you are honest about this two-mindedness. Factually, there is just no way around it. The liberalization and deregulation of telecommunications has massively increased access, decreased costs, increased diversity and innovation.

[MG>] For some certainly, but I'm wondering who have been the net beneficiaries and whether those who haven't benefited directly have in fact borne some of the cost of those benefits... I don't know, maybe they have, maybe they haven't but neither Kende or you have offered much beyond ideology and bluster in that regard.


The internet never would have happened without it. I know it provides cognitive dissonance for some people, but all you have to do is compare the penetration and price of ICTs before and after liberalization and the contrast will be very, very stark. True, there have been pitfalls here and there, usually due to remnants of monopoly power or not handling the complex transition from monopoly to competition properly, but on the whole the progress has been revolutionary.

[MG>] You are probably right but I would like a bit more evidence than your assertion and I would also like some analysis of the costs involved and also an analysis of how those costs (and benefits) have been and are being distributed and then an analysis of what might be required to ensure that there has been some benefits distributed beyond the usual cast of characters.  I know that you and I have benefited but I'm rather less sure about the folks living in Khayalitcha and even less for the cattle herders in Burkina Faso and I mean now not in a never never land future. And as an outcome I'ld like to see an analysis which isn't zero sum (regulation or no regulation) as you seem to suggest is necessary. Rather the question shoud be what sort of regime (without regulation and or with what type of regulation of what elements of the overall Internet technical ecology).

Mike


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121012/e36ff03e/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From mueller at syr.edu  Fri Oct 12 15:49:53 2012
From: mueller at syr.edu (Milton L Mueller)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 19:49:53 +0000
Subject: [governance] The ITU/WCIT: Thinking About Internet Regulatory
 Policy From An LDC Perspective?
In-Reply-To: <02c701cda899$3f79ec30$be6dc490$@gmail.com>
References: <056001cda79c$6fcd1360$4f673a20$@gmail.com>
 <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD224D926@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>,<000401cda845$99a883a0$ccf98ae0$@gmail.com>
 <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D59EDE44D@W8-EX10MB.unam.local>
 <02c701cda899$3f79ec30$be6dc490$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD224EB27@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>



From: michael gurstein [mailto:gurstein at gmail.com]

The problem of course, comes in when folks insist on a market-good, state-bad blunderbuss (and ideolog based) approach.

[Milton L Mueller] Good. Now I am sure you will feel the same way about, and react the same way to all those market-bad regulation-good ideologues...?

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121012/8bccf3fe/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From apisan at unam.mx  Fri Oct 12 20:05:05 2012
From: apisan at unam.mx (Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 00:05:05 +0000
Subject: [governance] The ITU/WCIT: Thinking About Internet Regulatory
 Policy From An LDC Perspective?
In-Reply-To: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD224EB27@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
References: <056001cda79c$6fcd1360$4f673a20$@gmail.com>
 <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD224D926@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>,<000401cda845$99a883a0$ccf98ae0$@gmail.com>
 <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D59EDE44D@W8-EX10MB.unam.local>
 <02c701cda899$3f79ec30$be6dc490$@gmail.com>,<855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD224EB27@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D59EDFA6D@W8-EX10MB.unam.local>

Milton,

it seems more likely that Michael Gurstein will continue to explore the issue in depth with an open mind. He has already stated so and a record to prove it.

Onward to the issue now...

Alejandro Pisanty


! !! !!! !!!!
NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO



+52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD

+525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO

SMS +525541444475
     Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico

Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
.  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .

________________________________
Desde: Milton L Mueller [mueller at syr.edu]
Enviado el: viernes, 12 de octubre de 2012 14:49
Hasta: michael gurstein; Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch; governance at lists.igcaucus.org
Asunto: RE: [governance] The ITU/WCIT: Thinking About Internet Regulatory Policy From An LDC Perspective?



From: michael gurstein [mailto:gurstein at gmail.com]

The problem of course, comes in when folks insist on a market-good, state-bad blunderbuss (and ideolog based) approach.

[Milton L Mueller] Good. Now I am sure you will feel the same way about, and react the same way to all those market-bad regulation-good ideologues…?

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121013/ed5dcc62/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From gurstein at gmail.com  Fri Oct 12 22:06:39 2012
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 08:06:39 +0600
Subject: [governance] The ITU/WCIT: Thinking About Internet Regulatory
 Policy From An LDC Perspective?
In-Reply-To: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD224EAF7@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
References: <056001cda79c$6fcd1360$4f673a20$@gmail.com> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD224D926@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <000401cda845$99a883a0$ccf98ae0$@gmail.com> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD224EAF7@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <046b01cda8e7$68226a10$38673e30$@gmail.com>

Thanks Milton, I have some limited knowledge of that literature. The problem
is, as per the abstract you quoted, in the real world the issue isn't just
with "the effects of privatization, competition, and regulation on
telecommunications performance (my emphasis)" where I have no doubt their
(and your) conclusions/assumptions would be borne out. Rather it is with the
somewhat more complex world of how to achieve non-telecommunications
benefits among those for example who are really very far away from the
closest exchange or cell tower and whether achieving the benefits that you
(and they) are pointing to, are, in the broad scope of requirements for
national policies for development (and in some cases even for survival)
worth the costs in terms of foregone revenues and means for a variety of
policy and other governmental intervention.

 

Honestly, I don't know the answer but  simply quoting studies of the
impacts/benefits of privatization without a parallel examination of the
broader socio-political and economic costs doesn't I'm afraid, take us very
far.

 

Best,

 

M

 

From: Milton L Mueller [mailto:mueller at syr.edu] 
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2012 1:45 AM
To: michael gurstein; governance at lists.igcaucus.org
Subject: RE: [governance] The ITU/WCIT: Thinking About Internet Regulatory
Policy From An LDC Perspective?

 

Michael

There is a vast literature on telecommunications liberalization and
privatization's effects. If you have not seen evidence to back up the
arguments about the effects, it is not because it doesn't exist. Here are
some samples:

 

The Impact of Privatization and Competition in the Telecommunications Sector
Around the World 

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=364140

 

Telecommunications Liberalization on Two Sides of the Atlantic

http://muse.jhu.edu/books/9780815798781 

 

The institutional environment and effects of telecommunication privatization
and market liberalization in Asia 

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0308596100000665 

 

The productivity effects of the liberalization of Japanese telecommunication
policy http://www.springerlink.com/content/r48142651763j8hv/

 

I include the abstract from this article, which summarizes the consensus of
much of this research 

 

An Econometric Analysis of Telecom Competition, Privatization, and
Regulation in Africa and Latin America. 

The Journal of Industrial Economics. Volume 49, Issue 1, pages 1-19, March
2001

 

This paper explores the effects of privatization, competition, and
regulation on telecommunications performance in 30 African and Latin
American countries from 1984 through 1997. Fixed-effects regressions reveal
that competition is correlated with increases in the per capita number of
mainlines, payphones, and connection capacity, and with decreases in the
price of local calls. Privatization combined with an independent regulator
is positively correlated with telecom performance measures. Privatization
alone, however, is associated with few benefits, and is negatively
correlated with connection capacity.

 

 

 

[MG>] I know that is your position Milton, which at that level of
ideological pandering/name calling is no different from Kende's argument and
we hear it often enough.  What I would very much like to see though, is some
evidence to back it up. What I'm curious to see, and that was the point of
my original note, is some research/analysis which starts not from a
definition of "benefits" as dictated by Google, Microsoft, and Uncle Tom
digerati and all but rather one which starts from the quite specific policy
contexts and dilemmas of the folks in LDC's who seem to be bearing a rather
large amount of short term cost in the service of purported long term
benefit (and not incidentally alongside rather significant short term
benefits adhering to already extremely well provided for DC beneficiaries).
And if they don't publicly object I will,  not all of those folks or dare I
say even most (countering again some ideological and even should  I say
xenophobic posturing rather than systematic analysis and research on your
part) are as you imply, corrupt and despotic. 

 

 

I myself am of two minds on this issue.  I well recognize the value/benefits
that could flow from Internet access even to the poorest of the poor and the
overwhelming benefits that Internet access provides to those for example in
civil society who can take advantage of its more or less unlimited free flow
of communications and information (including through undermining various
repressive political regimes). On the other hand, the unlimited unregulated
policy environment advocated by reports like that of Kende and others of
that ideological ilk would I think, lead almost directly to a further
enrichment of the already stupendously wealthy and overall a signifcant
transfer of wealth and benefit from those with the least to those with the
most.

[Milton L Mueller] I am glad you are honest about this two-mindedness.
Factually, there is just no way around it. The liberalization and
deregulation of telecommunications has massively increased access, decreased
costs, increased diversity and innovation. 

 

[MG>] For some certainly, but I'm wondering who have been the net
beneficiaries and whether those who haven't benefited directly have in fact
borne some of the cost of those benefits. I don't know, maybe they have,
maybe they haven't but neither Kende or you have offered much beyond
ideology and bluster in that regard.

 

 

The internet never would have happened without it. I know it provides
cognitive dissonance for some people, but all you have to do is compare the
penetration and price of ICTs before and after liberalization and the
contrast will be very, very stark. True, there have been pitfalls here and
there, usually due to remnants of monopoly power or not handling the complex
transition from monopoly to competition properly, but on the whole the
progress has been revolutionary. 

 

[MG>] You are probably right but I would like a bit more evidence than your
assertion and I would also like some analysis of the costs involved and also
an analysis of how those costs (and benefits) have been and are being
distributed and then an analysis of what might be required to ensure that
there has been some benefits distributed beyond the usual cast of
characters.  I know that you and I have benefited but I'm rather less sure
about the folks living in Khayalitcha and even less for the cattle herders
in Burkina Faso and I mean now not in a never never land future. And as an
outcome I'ld like to see an analysis which isn't zero sum (regulation or no
regulation) as you seem to suggest is necessary. Rather the question shoud
be what sort of regime (without regulation and or with what type of
regulation of what elements of the overall Internet technical ecology).

 

Mike 

 

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121013/2afde91f/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From gurstein at gmail.com  Fri Oct 12 22:06:39 2012
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 08:06:39 +0600
Subject: [governance] The ITU/WCIT: Thinking About Internet Regulatory
 Policy From An LDC Perspective?
In-Reply-To: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD224EB27@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
References: <056001cda79c$6fcd1360$4f673a20$@gmail.com> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD224D926@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>,<000401cda845$99a883a0$ccf98ae0$@gmail.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D59EDE44D@W8-EX10MB.unam.local> <02c701cda899$3f79ec30$be6dc490$@gmail.com> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD224EB27@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <047001cda8e7$6a088f30$3e19ad90$@gmail.com>

When I see some I'm sure I will :)

 

(In the real world where most of us live our lives there are no simple --
one size fits all -- answers. That doesn't mean that we don't have goals or
values but it does mean that we don't mistake means for ends and look to
impose things that might work for some in some places and under some
circumstances as a sledgehammer for all  in all places at all times..

 

M

 

From: Milton L Mueller [mailto:mueller at syr.edu] 
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2012 1:50 AM
To: michael gurstein; 'Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch';
governance at lists.igcaucus.org
Subject: RE: [governance] The ITU/WCIT: Thinking About Internet Regulatory
Policy From An LDC Perspective?

 

 

 

From: michael gurstein [mailto:gurstein at gmail.com] 

The problem of course, comes in when folks insist on a market-good,
state-bad blunderbuss (and ideolog based) approach.

 

[Milton L Mueller] Good. Now I am sure you will feel the same way about, and
react the same way to all those market-bad regulation-good ideologues.?

 

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121013/5b047355/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From iza at anr.org  Fri Oct 12 23:01:00 2012
From: iza at anr.org (Izumi AIZU)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 12:01:00 +0900
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [igf_members] Closing of online registration
In-Reply-To: <66AA689F-5BFA-439F-A039-0F8DF7410050@unog.ch>
References: <66AA689F-5BFA-439F-A039-0F8DF7410050@unog.ch>
Message-ID: <CA+YNoKg2PDmeudfaYngPmUN3GWTd2krTN8Xubp_MfaYVyiyVZQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list,
Online registration for the Bakul IGF Meeting closes on Monday, 15 October.

This is important for the Visa process.
You need to obtain host country invitation letter and the online registration
confirmation email from IGF secretariat is the first step to obtain the letter.

I am not sure how you go through the visa application with onsite registration
which will start on Friday, 2 November at the Baku Expo Center.

In any case, it is much better to register and apply now.

best,

izumi

-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 04:02:55 2012
From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 11:02:55 +0300
Subject: [governance] Interesting story of the never ending ICANN
 Conflict of Interest. This time on .africa?
In-Reply-To: <CACAaNxjpaUPtrRe1shp0CUoJZ0YgSU=c7ot8GtFsum527wgOJg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1350018151.93184.YahooMailNeo@web164506.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <CACAaNxjpaUPtrRe1shp0CUoJZ0YgSU=c7ot8GtFsum527wgOJg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABBOhxozSyWmaDoQ+nLMU25YQ+Z8y=rfYhUqAxYXAT0kGg_6rg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 3:14 PM, McTim <dogwallah at gmail.com> wrote:

> To be fair, the folks doing the alleging say they have written 3 letters
> to ICANN, but none of them appear in the correspondence section of the
> ICANN website, so we don't have any basis to judge IF there is a COI.


Not all correspondents sent to ICANN are published on the ICANN website
under the correspondents web-page. In fact, there have been discussion on
the reasons behind that especially during the days of ICANN's previous CEO.
One of the folks who gives ICANN tough times on this matter is Kieren
McCarthy from dot-nxt, and that is apparent from some of his articles.

Fahd
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121013/1939a844/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From riaz.tayob at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 03:52:28 2012
From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 10:52:28 +0300
Subject: [governance] The ITU/WCIT: Thinking About Internet Regulatory
 Policy From An LDC Perspective?
In-Reply-To: <000401cda845$99a883a0$ccf98ae0$@gmail.com>
References: <056001cda79c$6fcd1360$4f673a20$@gmail.com> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD224D926@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <000401cda845$99a883a0$ccf98ae0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50791DBC.8080409@gmail.com>

One way out of the impasse is to look at the treatment of these issues 
differently than the traditional neoclassical economics sense...

Oligopoly has its privileges and costs - but are tolerated particularly 
in enterprises with high fixed costs and the need to maintain/enhance 
capabilities/innovation.

Lower prices to consumers is the classical spread of benefits... there 
is also the German Historical School economics that focusses on the 
ability of entrepreneurial firms pushing up both wages and profits - the 
collusive spread - that has other synergistic effects.

In other instances, would access be facilitated even more by sharing of 
infrastructure for network coverage (forms of cooperation not evident in 
many countries where there is capital shortage (or high cost) as UNCTAD 
previously indicated? I.e. is the liberalisation competitive model the 
most efficient in its own terms, or can it be improved by policy (i.e. 
no policy policy vs a policy)? I mean haracter for character SMS seems 
to be the highest cost telecoms (even in some cases when compared to 
satelite comms)...

On 2012/10/12 09:46 AM, michael gurstein wrote:
>
> */[Milton L Mueller] The problem with your perspective, Michael, is 
> that it does indeed represent the classic telecom monopoly perspective 
> which is often held by the governmental Ministries and national 
> telecom monopolies in LDCs. Basically they see international traffic 
> not as an industry that supplies goods and services that benefit the 
> consumers who pay for them, but as a source of monopoly rents that can 
> be soaked to “distribute” wealth to their favored businesses and 
> political causes. This concern with “equitable distribution” 
> inevitably ends up both being massively inefficient and thus stifling 
> growth, while not even achieving equity either, because it will always 
> be a few privileged, well-connected businesses and politicians who 
> benefit from setting up the national toll booths. /*
>
> *//*
>
> */[MG>] I know that is your position Milton, which at that level of 
> ideological pandering/name calling is no different from Kende's 
> argument and we hear it often enough.  What I would very much like to 
> see though, is some evidence to back it up. What I'm curious to see, 
> and that was the point of my original note, is some research/analysis 
> which starts not from a definition of "benefits" as dictated by 
> Google, Microsoft, and Uncle Tom digerati and all but rather one which 
> starts from the quite specific policy contexts and dilemmas of the 
> folks in LDC's who seem to be bearing a rather large amount of short 
> term cost in the service of purported long term benefit (and not 
> incidentally alongside rather significant short term benefits adhering 
> to already extremely well provided for DC beneficiaries). And if they 
> don't publicly object I will,  not all of those folks or dare I say 
> even most (countering again some ideological and even should  I say 
> xenophobic posturing rather than systematic analysis and research on 
> your part) are as you imply, corrupt and despotic. /*
>
> *//*
>
> *//*
>
> I myself am of two minds on this issue.  I well recognize the 
> value/benefits that could flow from Internet access even to the 
> poorest of the poor and the overwhelming benefits that Internet access 
> provides to those for example in civil society who can take advantage 
> of its more or less unlimited free flow of communications and 
> information (including through undermining various repressive 
> political regimes). On the other hand, the unlimited unregulated 
> policy environment advocated by reports like that of Kende and others 
> of that ideological ilk would I think, lead almost directly to a 
> further enrichment of the already stupendously wealthy and overall a 
> signifcant transfer of wealth and benefit from those with the least to 
> those with the most.
>
> */[Milton L Mueller] I am glad you are honest about this 
> two-mindedness. Factually, there is just no way around it. The 
> liberalization and deregulation of telecommunications has massively 
> increased access, decreased costs, increased diversity and innovation./*
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121013/ebf309f4/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From riaz.tayob at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 03:53:46 2012
From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 10:53:46 +0300
Subject: [governance] Interesting story of the never ending ICANN
 Conflict of Interest. This time on .africa?
In-Reply-To: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D59EDF600@W8-EX10MB.unam.local>
References: <1350018151.93184.YahooMailNeo@web164506.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>,<CACAaNxjpaUPtrRe1shp0CUoJZ0YgSU=c7ot8GtFsum527wgOJg@mail.gmail.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D59EDF600@W8-EX10MB.unam.local>
Message-ID: <50791E0A.7020007@gmail.com>


On 2012/10/12 04:11 PM, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch wrote:
> the claims are vague enough to be consistent with "one more turn of 
> the extortion screw",


Whatever does this mean?


-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From chaitanyabd at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 04:56:44 2012
From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 14:26:44 +0530
Subject: [governance] Interesting story of the never ending ICANN
 Conflict of Interest. This time on .africa?
In-Reply-To: <50791E0A.7020007@gmail.com>
References: <1350018151.93184.YahooMailNeo@web164506.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<CACAaNxjpaUPtrRe1shp0CUoJZ0YgSU=c7ot8GtFsum527wgOJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D59EDF600@W8-EX10MB.unam.local>
	<50791E0A.7020007@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEP5zKTKpPjEki0v7Z3y9ncDZ-DytVE46_HkuCK8L2u0pKOfKQ@mail.gmail.com>

Like if you're trying to bribe your way out of some confusing government
work in India, the agent goes "we'll bill you 2-3 grand for the work - is
that OK?" and then just before the work is done demands 5K saying "but we
already told you it would cost extra!" - and if you don't pay the work is
returned half-finished or even worse than before.

For all the 'corruption doesnt pay' you hear nowadays people do this on a
surprisingly regular basis.

-C

On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 1:23 PM, Riaz K Tayob <riaz.tayob at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> On 2012/10/12 04:11 PM, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch wrote:
>
>> the claims are vague enough to be consistent with "one more turn of the
>> extortion screw",
>>
>
>
> Whatever does this mean?
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121013/82e3faca/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de  Sat Oct 13 22:59:13 2012
From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang=22?=)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 04:59:13 +0200
Subject: [governance] Budapest
References: <1350018151.93184.YahooMailNeo@web164506.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
 <CACAaNxjpaUPtrRe1shp0CUoJZ0YgSU=c7ot8GtFsum527wgOJg@mail.gmail.com>
 <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D59EDF600@W8-EX10MB.unam.local>
 <50791E0A.7020007@gmail.com>
 <CAEP5zKTKpPjEki0v7Z3y9ncDZ-DytVE46_HkuCK8L2u0pKOfKQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID:  <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD466@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>

FYI
 
http://www.circleid.com/posts/20121013_london_process_budapest_another_travel_circus_internet_community/
 
w


-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From kovenronald at aol.com  Sun Oct 14 05:13:29 2012
From: kovenronald at aol.com (Koven Ronald)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 05:13:29 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [governance] Budapest
In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD466@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
References: <1350018151.93184.YahooMailNeo@web164506.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
 <CACAaNxjpaUPtrRe1shp0CUoJZ0YgSU=c7ot8GtFsum527wgOJg@mail.gmail.com>
 <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D59EDF600@W8-EX10MB.unam.local>
 <50791E0A.7020007@gmail.com>
 <CAEP5zKTKpPjEki0v7Z3y9ncDZ-DytVE46_HkuCK8L2u0pKOfKQ@mail.gmail.com> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD466@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
Message-ID: <8CF78034F876D03-2358-404AE@webmail-m169.sysops.aol.com>

Thank you, Wolfgang. That was very interesting and useful.


Bests, Rony



-----E-mail d'origine-----
De : "Kleinwächter, Wolf
 gang" <wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
A: governance <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
Envoyé le : Di, 14 Oct 2012 5:07
Sujet : [governance] Budapest


FYI
 
http://www.circleid.com/posts/20121013_london_process_budapest_another_travel_circus_internet_community/
 
w



 
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121014/0296816f/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From pouzin at well.com  Sun Oct 14 05:17:28 2012
From: pouzin at well.com (Louis Pouzin (well))
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 11:17:28 +0200
Subject: [governance] Interesting story of the never ending ICANN Conflict
 of Interest. This time on .africa?
In-Reply-To: <5077B19F.1040808@itforchange.net>
References: <1350018151.93184.YahooMailNeo@web164506.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <5077B19F.1040808@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <CA+EjHYpq57mNBkEa3yJp43ac2JLyk+icuYqhAvwEv1qM8hNPdw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

ICANN is both a regulator and a vendor of services based on its
regulations. This is just the same as a private standard body taking
patents on its own standards and collecting license fees.

Rhetoric of equitable, neutral, accountable, transparent,
multi-stakeholder, public interest, bottom up (or down), belongs to
outreach (aka propaganda). We know the reality, and we know it cannot
change.

The reason it cannot change is that ICANN's structure is by design a locus
of permanent conflicts of interests. A self proclaimed world monopoly,
without voting members, nor international statute, collecting hundreds
millions $, without paying taxes anywhere, is already liable to suspicion.
Are the costs justified by provided services, or are services the
by-product of a racket ?

Humans not being angels, it would be very naive to believe that ICANN's
decision makers would stricly ignore their own personal and future
interests. And this is to last as long as regulation and services provision
keep hiding behind the smoke screen of a single organization.

Another flame (not from Kieren McCarthy).

http://www.circleid.com/posts/20121013_the_draw_icann_severe_case_of_virus_infection/

Louis
- - -

On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 7:58 AM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>wrote:

>
>  On Friday 12 October 2012 10:32 AM, Martin McOsieno wrote:
>
>  Hi
>
>  Interesting story of the never ending ICANN Conflict of Interest. This
> time on .africa?
>
> But isnt the problem of conflict of interest structural to
> multistakeholder (MS) governance (not multistakeholder policy inputs, but
> actual governance) because MS governance is about those who have interest
> (or stake) being part of decision making processes. ICANN board and its
> various decision making committees, for instance, are full of people from
> the domain name industry, an industry that ICANN is supposed to regulate.
> Could one, coming from an old fashioned democratic tradition, even think of
> US's Federal Communications Commission or Telecom Regulatory Authority of
> India having a rep from Verizon or Airtel respectively! No, certainly not,
> it would be unthinkable. But not so in the ICANN's world of MSism.
>
> Consequently most conflict of interest talk at ICANN is window dressing,
> when the going, and the press, becomes too blatantly bad, as in the case of
> their former Chairman's misadventures. Otherwise, in the game as usual it
> is interested parties laying global CIR policies all the way, and the
> public or the supposed reps of the public sit in the gallery and clap
> enthusiastically about the untold wonders of MSism.
>
> This is what the outgoing CEO of ICANN had to say
>
> “Icann must place commercial and financial interests in their appropriate
> context,” said Mr. Beckstrom, who is scheduled to step down from his post
> in July. “How can it do this if all top leadership is from the very
> domain-name industry it is supposed to coordinate independently?
>
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/19/technology/private-fight-at-internet-naming-firm-goes-public.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1332165645-IV28j+gNERC8I8kD5rURmA
>
> See some examples of an endemic of conflicts of interest in ICANN at
> http://www.internetevolution.com/author.asp?section_id=1072&doc_id=240923.
>
> Many of you may not have great positive thoughts about the democratic
> system of governance in India, but I can assure you that if any
> governmental/policy organisation in India approached anywhere near the
> conflict of interest mess that ICANN is, it would take one public interest
> litigation to the high court or supreme court to get it folded up in a
> matter of days, even if the government itself does not fold it up (which
> too I am sure it would do on its own).
>
> parminder
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121014/044bed2e/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From ca at cafonso.ca  Sun Oct 14 07:10:40 2012
From: ca at cafonso.ca (Carlos A. Afonso)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 08:10:40 -0300
Subject: [governance] Interesting story of the never ending ICANN
 Conflict of Interest. This time on .africa?
Message-ID: <wmc941ia10rnycgpq80sqiwp.1350212620842@email.android.com>

Dear Louis,

The Werner Staub article on CircleId you quote, showing Icann's virotic propensity for games and lottery, is fascinating. If this is so (and Werner is very convincing), why should Icann receive the application fee in advance?

frt rgds

--c.a.




Sent from Samsung tablet"Louis Pouzin (well)" <pouzin at well.com> escreveu:Hi,

ICANN is both a regulator and a vendor of services based on its regulations. This is just the same as a private standard body taking patents on its own standards and collecting license fees.

Rhetoric of equitable, neutral, accountable, transparent, multi-stakeholder, public interest, bottom up (or down), belongs to outreach (aka propaganda). We know the reality, and we know it cannot change.

The reason it cannot change is that ICANN's structure is by design a locus of permanent conflicts of interests. A self proclaimed world monopoly, without voting members, nor international statute, collecting hundreds millions $, without paying taxes anywhere, is already liable to suspicion. Are the costs justified by provided services, or are services the by-product of a racket ?

Humans not being angels, it would be very naive to believe that ICANN's decision makers would stricly ignore their own personal and future interests. And this is to last as long as regulation and services provision keep hiding behind the smoke screen of a single organization.

Another flame (not from Kieren McCarthy).

http://www.circleid.com/posts/20121013_the_draw_icann_severe_case_of_virus_infection/

Louis
- - -

On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 7:58 AM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> wrote:

On Friday 12 October 2012 10:32 AM, Martin McOsieno wrote:
Hi 

Interesting story of the never ending ICANN Conflict of Interest. This time on .africa?
But isnt the problem of conflict of interest structural to multistakeholder (MS) governance (not multistakeholder policy inputs, but actual governance) because MS governance is about those who have interest (or stake) being part of decision making processes. ICANN board and its various decision making committees, for instance, are full of people from the domain name industry, an industry that ICANN is supposed to regulate. Could one, coming from an old fashioned democratic tradition, even think of US's Federal Communications Commission or Telecom Regulatory Authority of India having a rep from Verizon or Airtel respectively! No, certainly not, it would be unthinkable. But not so in the ICANN's world of MSism. 

Consequently most conflict of interest talk at ICANN is window dressing, when the going, and the press, becomes too blatantly bad, as in the case of their former Chairman's misadventures. Otherwise, in the game as usual it is interested parties laying global CIR policies all the way, and the public or the supposed reps of the public sit in the gallery and clap enthusiastically about the untold wonders of MSism.

This is what the outgoing CEO of ICANN had to say
“Icann must place commercial and financial interests in their appropriate context,” said Mr. Beckstrom, who is scheduled to step down from his post in July. “How can it do this if all top leadership is from the very domain-name industry it is supposed to coordinate independently?
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/19/technology/private-fight-at-internet-naming-firm-goes-public.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1332165645-IV28j+gNERC8I8kD5rURmA 

See some examples of an endemic of conflicts of interest in ICANN at http://www.internetevolution.com/author.asp?section_id=1072&doc_id=240923 .

Many of you may not have great positive thoughts about the democratic system of governance in India, but I can assure you that if any governmental/policy organisation in India approached anywhere near the conflict of interest mess that ICANN is, it would take one public interest litigation to the high court or supreme court to get it folded up in a matter of days, even if the government itself does not fold it up (which too I am sure it would do on its own).

parminder 
 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121014/bf5b3de8/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From nhklein at gmx.net  Sun Oct 14 07:49:14 2012
From: nhklein at gmx.net (Norbert Klein)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 18:49:14 +0700
Subject: [governance] Budapest
In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD466@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
References: <1350018151.93184.YahooMailNeo@web164506.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <CACAaNxjpaUPtrRe1shp0CUoJZ0YgSU=c7ot8GtFsum527wgOJg@mail.gmail.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D59EDF600@W8-EX10MB.unam.local> <50791E0A.7020007@gmail.com> <CAEP5zKTKpPjEki0v7Z3y9ncDZ-DytVE46_HkuCK8L2u0pKOfKQ@mail.gmail.com> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD466@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
Message-ID: <507AA6BA.1020808@gmx.net>

More on Budapest:

I have excerpted and *highlighted* some points.


Norbert Klein

=*
*

*Some Takeaways From The Budapest Conference On Cyberspace – Analysis*

October 13, 2012, by Cherian Samuel

In terms of various agendas, the *European countries* highlighted the 
human rights aspects of cybersecurity, *based on their characterization 
of internet freedom* as a fundamental right, leading *the Chinese 
representative to acerbically ask whether he was at a human rights 
conference or a cybersecurity conference*...

The *sovereignty issue* also came to the fore in the discussions on 
cybercrime where the *Russians* stoutly resisted a push to get more 
countries to sign on to the Budapest Convention on Cybercrime. They 
described it as both outdated and ineffective and *wanted it to be 
debated in the United Nations*...

If the *third set of actors*, the various private sector representatives 
gathered at the venue, had a message to put out, it was that there was 
no need for governments to get involved in cybersecurity since 
*practical issues had to be addressed in cyber time, not “political 
consultation time*.” ...

*India’s contribution* to the deliberations was in the form of a keynote 
address by Sachin Pilot, the Minister of State for Telecommunications, 
where he called for internet governance to be made more equitable and 
effective. India’s approach to the internet has been tech-centric and 
free of ideological overlays, although that approach seems to have run 
its course. There are concerns that simply trusting in private companies 
to deliver on cybersecurity without adequate safeguards or assurances 
don’t pass muster...

The other notable initiative coming out of Budapest was the announcement 
by the *the UK government of plans to create a Center for Global 
Cyber-Security Capacity Building* with an investment of 2 million 
pounds. Practical initiatives of this type that emphasize upon 
collaboration, skills sharing and capacity building would go a long way 
towards improving global cybersecurity. However, not only are such 
governmental initiatives too few and far between, the *climate of 
distrust that has begun to pervade cybersecurity means* that they will 
be viewed with suspicion and might not find many takers...

*Source:*

http://www.eurasiareview.com/13102012-some-takeaways-from-the-budapest-conference-on-cyberspace-analysis/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+eurasiareview%2FVsnE+%28Eurasia+Review%29



-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121014/71ae95ec/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de  Sun Oct 14 07:57:18 2012
From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang=22?=)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 13:57:18 +0200
Subject: [governance] Cyberwar
References: <1350018151.93184.YahooMailNeo@web164506.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
 <CACAaNxjpaUPtrRe1shp0CUoJZ0YgSU=c7ot8GtFsum527wgOJg@mail.gmail.com>
 <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D59EDF600@W8-EX10MB.unam.local>
 <50791E0A.7020007@gmail.com>
 <CAEP5zKTKpPjEki0v7Z3y9ncDZ-DytVE46_HkuCK8L2u0pKOfKQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD466@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
Message-ID:  <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD467@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>

 
http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=118187

FYI


w




-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From pouzin at well.com  Sun Oct 14 10:47:17 2012
From: pouzin at well.com (Louis Pouzin (well))
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 16:47:17 +0200
Subject: [governance] Cyberwar
In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD467@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
References: <1350018151.93184.YahooMailNeo@web164506.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
 <CACAaNxjpaUPtrRe1shp0CUoJZ0YgSU=c7ot8GtFsum527wgOJg@mail.gmail.com>
 <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D59EDF600@W8-EX10MB.unam.local>
 <50791E0A.7020007@gmail.com> <CAEP5zKTKpPjEki0v7Z3y9ncDZ-DytVE46_HkuCK8L2u0pKOfKQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD466@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD467@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
Message-ID: <CA+EjHYro0=3jd-4uGv6WDSXZ_CJeOMfZp4rUqKEJ=6jyj+7s-g@mail.gmail.com>

FUD propaganda, and an agenda of what the US is prepared to do to other
countries.

He also reminds us that D O D is now in charge of national security, not D
H S. That spells increasingly worse for internet freedom.

Louis
- - -

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 1:57 PM, "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" <
wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de> wrote:

>
> http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=118187
>
> FYI
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121014/7930a12f/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From dl at panamo.eu  Sun Oct 14 15:19:53 2012
From: dl at panamo.eu (Dominique Lacroix)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 21:19:53 +0200
Subject: [governance] Interesting story of the never ending ICANN
 Conflict of Interest. This time on .africa?
In-Reply-To: <CA+EjHYpq57mNBkEa3yJp43ac2JLyk+icuYqhAvwEv1qM8hNPdw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1350018151.93184.YahooMailNeo@web164506.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <5077B19F.1040808@itforchange.net> <CA+EjHYpq57mNBkEa3yJp43ac2JLyk+icuYqhAvwEv1qM8hNPdw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <507B1059.3040308@panamo.eu>

"/Corn cannot expect justice from a court of chickens./"

;-)

@+, best, Dom


Le 14/10/12 11:17, Louis Pouzin (well) a écrit :
> Hi,
>
> ICANN is both a regulator and a vendor of services based on its 
> regulations. This is just the same as a private standard body taking 
> patents on its own standards and collecting license fees.
>
> Rhetoric of equitable, neutral, accountable, transparent, 
> multi-stakeholder, public interest, bottom up (or down), belongs to 
> outreach (aka propaganda). We know the reality, and we know it cannot 
> change.
>
> The reason it cannot change is that ICANN's structure is by design a 
> locus of permanent conflicts of interests. A self proclaimed world 
> monopoly, without voting members, nor international statute, 
> collecting hundreds millions $, without paying taxes anywhere, is 
> already liable to suspicion. Are the costs justified by provided 
> services, or are services the by-product of a racket ?
>
> Humans not being angels, it would be very naive to believe that 
> ICANN's decision makers would stricly ignore their own personal and 
> future interests. And this is to last as long as regulation and 
> services provision keep hiding behind the smoke screen of a single 
> organization.
>
> Another flame (not from Kieren McCarthy).
>
> http://www.circleid.com/posts/20121013_the_draw_icann_severe_case_of_virus_infection/
>
> Louis
> - - -
>
> On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 7:58 AM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net 
> <mailto:parminder at itforchange.net>> wrote:
>
>
>     On Friday 12 October 2012 10:32 AM, Martin McOsieno wrote:
>>     Hi
>>
>>     Interesting story of the never ending ICANN Conflict of Interest.
>>     This time on .africa?
>     But isnt the problem of conflict of interest structural to
>     multistakeholder (MS) governance (not multistakeholder policy
>     inputs, but actual governance) because MS governance is about
>     those who have interest (or stake) being part of decision making
>     processes. ICANN board and its various decision making committees,
>     for instance, are full of people from the domain name industry, an
>     industry that ICANN is supposed to regulate. Could one, coming
>     from an old fashioned democratic tradition, even think of US's
>     Federal Communications Commission or Telecom Regulatory Authority
>     of India having a rep from Verizon or Airtel respectively! No,
>     certainly not, it would be unthinkable. But not so in the ICANN's
>     world of MSism.
>
>     Consequently most conflict of interest talk at ICANN is window
>     dressing, when the going, and the press, becomes too blatantly
>     bad, as in the case of their former Chairman's misadventures.
>     Otherwise, in the game as usual it is interested parties laying
>     global CIR policies all the way, and the public or the supposed
>     reps of the public sit in the gallery and clap enthusiastically
>     about the untold wonders of MSism.
>
>     This is what the outgoing CEO of ICANN had to say
>
>         “Icann must place commercial and financial interests in their
>         appropriate context,” said Mr. Beckstrom, who is scheduled to
>         step down from his post in July. “How can it do this if all
>         top leadership is from the very domain-name industry it is
>         supposed to coordinate independently? 
>
>     http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/19/technology/private-fight-at-internet-naming-firm-goes-public.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1332165645-IV28j+gNERC8I8kD5rURmA
>
>
>     See some examples of an endemic of conflicts of interest in ICANN
>     at
>     http://www.internetevolution.com/author.asp?section_id=1072&doc_id=240923
>     .
>
>     Many of you may not have great positive thoughts about the
>     democratic system of governance in India, but I can assure you
>     that if any governmental/policy organisation in India approached
>     anywhere near the conflict of interest mess that ICANN is, it
>     would take one public interest litigation to the high court or
>     supreme court to get it folded up in a matter of days, even if the
>     government itself does not fold it up (which too I am sure it
>     would do on its own).
>
>     parminder
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121014/485f657a/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From marie.georges at noos.fr  Sun Oct 14 17:14:54 2012
From: marie.georges at noos.fr (Marie GEORGES)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 23:14:54 +0200
Subject: [governance] Cyberwar
In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD467@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
References: <1350018151.93184.YahooMailNeo@web164506.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <CACAaNxjpaUPtrRe1shp0CUoJZ0YgSU=c7ot8GtFsum527wgOJg@mail.gmail.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D59EDF600@W8-EX10MB.unam.local> <50791E0A.7020007@gmail.com> <CAEP5zKTKpPjEki0v7Z3y9ncDZ-DytVE46_HkuCK8L2u0pKOfKQ@mail.gmail.com> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD466@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD467@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
Message-ID: <FB0BF524-AF19-48ED-BA7F-FD91AC982504@noos.fr>

Many thanks for all these information, included on the Conference in Budapest
MG 
Le 14 oct. 2012 à 13:57, Kleinwächter, Wolfgang a écrit :

> 
> http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=118187
> 
> FYI
> 
> 
> w
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From gurstein at gmail.com  Sun Oct 14 20:21:34 2012
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 06:21:34 +0600
Subject: [governance] <nettime> name.space sues ICANN over 189 TLDs
Message-ID: <03e101cdaa6b$0a914e90$1fb3ebb0$@gmail.com>

-----Original Message-----
From: nettime-l-bounces at mail.kein.org
[mailto:nettime-l-bounces at mail.kein.org] On Behalf Of
nettime's_roving_reporter
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 5:32 AM
To: nettime-l at kein.org
Subject: [SPAM] <nettime> name.space sues ICANN over 189 TLDs

http://domainincite.com/10754-company-files-for-injunction-against-189-new-g
tlds

Company files for injunction against 189 new gTLDs

   Kevin Murphy, October 12, 2012, 21:48:52 (UTC), in
   Registries

   Alternate root player Name.Space has sued ICANN for trademark
   infringement and anti-competitive behavior, saying "insiders" have
   conspired to keep it out of the new gTLD program.

   If successful, the suit would prevent dozens of new gTLD applicants
   from having their applications approved.

   The lawsuit, filed in California this week, follows a warning the
   company fired at ICANN this March.

   While only ICANN is named as a defendant, the suit alleges that the new
   gTLD program was crafted by and is dominated by "ICANN insiders" and
   "industry titans".

   It wants an injunction preventing ICANN delegating any of the 189 gTLD
   strings that it claims it has rights to.

   It also fingers several current and former ICANN directors, including
   current and former chairs Steve Crocker and Peter Dengate Thrush, over
   their alleged conflicts of interest.

   Name.Space has been operating 482 diverse TLDs -- such as .news,
   .sucks, and .mail -- in a lightly used alternate root system since
   1996.

   Most people can't access these zones and are unaware that they exist.

   The company applied to have 118 of these strings added to the root in
   ICANN's "proof of concept" gTLD expansion in 2000, when the application
   fee was $50,000, but was unsuccessful.

   Now, the company claims the new gTLD program is "an attack on
   name.space's business model and a mean by which to create and maintain
   market power in the TLD markets".

   The complaint (pdf) states:

     Rather than adopting a procedure to account for the pending 2000
     Application and facilitate the expansion of TLD providers in the
     DNS, ICANN has adopted a procedure so complex and expensive that it
     once again effectively prohibited newcomers from competing. It
     instead has permitted participation solely by ICANN insiders and
     industry titans.

   If it had applied for all 118 again in this year's round, it would have
   cost almost $22 million (though it would have qualified for an $83,000
   discount on a single bid).

   Name.Space is asking for damages and an injunction preventing ICANN
   from approving 189 gTLDs that match those it currently operates in its
   alternate root.

   The full list of affected applications is attached to the complaint.


   (c) 2010-2012 TLD Research Ltd


#  distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission #
<nettime>  is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, #  collaborative
text filtering and cultural politics of the nets #  more info:
http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l
#  archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime at kein.org


!DSPAM:2676,507b219e25485760221330!


-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From gideonrop at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 02:08:28 2012
From: gideonrop at gmail.com (Gideon)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 09:08:28 +0300
Subject: [governance] Emerging Cyber-Security Threats and Implications for
 the Private Sector
Message-ID: <CAP2ohHH1w2wHSV037E99jz9p9p5ZvQ2kHZjaukM-1QCWp1QyCQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Interesting article on seminar subject :
http://www.circleid.com/posts/20121013_emerging_cybersecurity_threats_and_implications_for_private_sector/

Thanks,
Gideon Rop
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121015/484ba9d7/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From kichango at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 03:50:56 2012
From: kichango at gmail.com (Mawaki Chango)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 03:50:56 -0400
Subject: [governance] Verify that you got a visa list email (Baku)
In-Reply-To: <20121011125212.GO5153@baribal.tarvainen.info>
References: <1349786154.44220.BPMail_high_noncarrier@web120103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<20121011124947.GN5153@baribal.tarvainen.info>
	<20121011125212.GO5153@baribal.tarvainen.info>
Message-ID: <CACTo+v8HE35=M7ZGuJq7xVO9DPuv6W107GMkuYBF_boaGO+Q6g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

After inquiring about this list with the very responsive staff and
nice people at Visa Inquiries for Baku's IGF, here is the answer I
have received.

"Please kindly note that the document attached is not the final document
from Migration Service. Note that every IGP participant will receive
individual paper from Migration Service. I'll send them as soon as I get.
No concerns on that."

So, patience...

Mawaki

On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 8:52 AM, Tapani Tarvainen
<tapani.tarvainen at effi.org> wrote:
> Oops, that obviously was meant for Nnenna only.
>
> But I guess it goes to show how easily things sometimes spread wider
> than they should - I just realized that list is what Bill must've
> meant about distributing participants' passport numbers.
>
> Nnenna,
>
> I don't really need the list but I'd like to know if I'm in it.
>
> Tapani
>
> On Oct 11 15:49, Tapani Tarvainen (tapani.tarvainen at effi.org) wrote:
>
>> On Oct 09 05:35, Nnenna (nne75 at yahoo.com) wrote:
>>
>> > Dear all
>> >
>> > Few hours ago I received another email from Baku concerning entry
>> > visa. This is the mail that airline companies will require before
>> > boarding you. It has a list 200+ names
>>
>> > If you think you should have received one and did not see it, or you
>> > need the list, send a line to nnenna at nnenna.org and I will forward it
>>
>> Dear NNenna,
>>
>> Could you please forward it to me. Thank you.
>>
>> - I Hope to see you in Baku. In case you don't remember me, I'm the
>> guy behind camera in this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSU346fkkSQ
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> --
>> Tapani Tarvainen
>> Vice president, Electronic Frontier Finland
>> email tapani.tarvainen at effi.org
>> tel. +358-40-7293479
>>
>>
>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>

-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 07:14:59 2012
From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 23:14:59 +1200
Subject: [governance] #Inspirational Speech by Fadi Chehadi @NCUC
In-Reply-To: <CAJwbTiDy6+xZZeKABk8AvQvdpVTSoaHCNQNPWDgLFUwVCxL6aw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJwbTiDy6+xZZeKABk8AvQvdpVTSoaHCNQNPWDgLFUwVCxL6aw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJwbTiDN_-cpYSgG7=DPmz6vU05TYwinxN-OT4TCTb9wSvKvqA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear All,

Inspirational speech by ICANN CEO at NCUC Fadi Chehadi, see:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apTsW7qlFQM&feature=youtu.be

Kind Regards,

-- 
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
P.O. Box 17862
Suva
Fiji

Twitter: @SalanietaT
Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121015/dcb6eade/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From gideonrop at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 07:19:38 2012
From: gideonrop at gmail.com (Gideon)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 14:19:38 +0300
Subject: [governance] #Inspirational Speech by Fadi Chehadi @NCUC
In-Reply-To: <CAJwbTiDN_-cpYSgG7=DPmz6vU05TYwinxN-OT4TCTb9wSvKvqA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJwbTiDy6+xZZeKABk8AvQvdpVTSoaHCNQNPWDgLFUwVCxL6aw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJwbTiDN_-cpYSgG7=DPmz6vU05TYwinxN-OT4TCTb9wSvKvqA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP2ohHFm5yQxD0_4yhwi-uvFYi2ONWL7C0kR_pdyAoZiYz5_Bw@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Sala,

Gideon Rop,

DotConnectAfrica

On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 2:14 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <
salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> Inspirational speech by ICANN CEO at NCUC Fadi Chehadi, see:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apTsW7qlFQM&feature=youtu.be
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> --
> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
> P.O. Box 17862
> Suva
> Fiji
>
> Twitter: @SalanietaT
> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121015/d6b34bbf/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From riaz.tayob at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 07:23:15 2012
From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 14:23:15 +0300
Subject: [governance] Re: Verisign's Patent Application for the Transfer
 of DNSSEC Domains
In-Reply-To: <CAJwbTiB_2Z5Dg-8tByPznTzddj+1VaFms=KTFfES_49rPhDW1w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJwbTiBm24HvNFFqFKDPerUZkMKG5dvFCoLkc1X65uqEDCBnFw@mail.gmail.com> <CAJwbTiAMRJ+jm25ub-WX1cVPrka5HH1Y9hBmJyvkGHu8N=RbuA@mail.gmail.com> <50752993.3040204@itforchange.net> <CAJwbTiB_2Z5Dg-8tByPznTzddj+1VaFms=KTFfES_49rPhDW1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <507BF223.8000607@gmail.com>

Sala

Nice article this. Essential technologies or those in the "public 
interest" ought to be accessible.

However, the rentiers in the US prevented South Africa from providing 
HIV medication using public health patent exceptions... the case was 
BigPharma vs Mandela and others... if that was the case for very obvious 
deaths what chance "obscure" internet technologies...?

And for arguments sake, would not letting the US CIR companies patent 
everything they can actually reduce the viability of the US as a CIR hub 
(i.e. patent exclusions in other jurisdictions could become more 
accommodating especially since Verisign has to disclose its info in the 
patent application)? And with shoddy patenting standards one can expect 
a right royal mess in a context of a litigious country...

Riaz

On 2012/10/11 11:10 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> Here's my perspective:
> http://www.circleid.com/posts/20121011_perspective_on_verisign_patent_application_on_domain_transfers/
>
>
> Kind Regards,
> Sala


-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From pouzin at well.com  Mon Oct 15 07:35:13 2012
From: pouzin at well.com (Louis Pouzin (well))
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 13:35:13 +0200
Subject: [governance] Interesting story of the never ending ICANN Conflict
 of Interest. This time on .africa?
In-Reply-To: <wmc941ia10rnycgpq80sqiwp.1350212620842@email.android.com>
References: <wmc941ia10rnycgpq80sqiwp.1350212620842@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CA+EjHYqc=3TTXxErNRPjHhVMsHiamd1YPzHVOgRrpwitfzJr1A@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Carlos,

As you know ICANN has been constantly extending delays and postponing
deadlines in the new extensions process. Unless you believe in miracles
this is not going to stop right away.

A corporation candidate for a string has already committed resources,
internal staff, consultants, lawyers, partnership for sharing the string
with other organizations, etc. When the ICANN process is longer than
anticipated, or even unpredictable, it's a drain on the corporate budget.
Make a bet, $50k monthly or more. It's also a loss of credibility and a
risk of being shoved aside for the executives who decided to join the new
extensions craze. Then what ?

Like in the stock market. When prospects are bad enough, take your loss
before losing more. AFAIK several (6) candidates have already withdrawn.
ICANN refunds $55k, the loss is $130k per string, plus a sizable fraction
of resources already committed. It's a better deal than one year delay,
isn't.

No wonder ICANN did collect money up front. They expected to lock their
pigeons in a safe cage.

Btw, as far as I remember, in its early days ICANN toyed with some sort of
auction or lottery for domain names. Apparently the idea was shelved,
because illegal in California.

Enjoy the day.
Louis
- - -

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 1:10 PM, Carlos A. Afonso <ca at cafonso.ca> wrote:

> Dear Louis,
>
> The Werner Staub article on CircleId you quote, showing Icann's virotic
> propensity for games and lottery, is fascinating. If this is so (and Werner
> is very convincing), why should Icann receive the application fee in
> advance?
>
> frt rgds
>
> --c.a.
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Samsung tablet
>
> "Louis Pouzin (well)" <pouzin at well.com> escreveu:
>
> Hi,
>
> ICANN is both a regulator and a vendor of services based on its
> regulations. This is just the same as a private standard body taking
> patents on its own standards and collecting license fees.
>
> Rhetoric of equitable, neutral, accountable, transparent,
> multi-stakeholder, public interest, bottom up (or down), belongs to
> outreach (aka propaganda). We know the reality, and we know it cannot
> change.
>
> The reason it cannot change is that ICANN's structure is by design a locus
> of permanent conflicts of interests. A self proclaimed world monopoly,
> without voting members, nor international statute, collecting hundreds
> millions $, without paying taxes anywhere, is already liable to suspicion.
> Are the costs justified by provided services, or are services the
> by-product of a racket ?
>
> Humans not being angels, it would be very naive to believe that ICANN's
> decision makers would stricly ignore their own personal and future
> interests. And this is to last as long as regulation and services provision
> keep hiding behind the smoke screen of a single organization.
>
> Another flame (not from Kieren McCarthy).
>
>
> http://www.circleid.com/posts/20121013_the_draw_icann_severe_case_of_virus_infection/
>
> Louis
> - - -
>
> On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 7:58 AM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>wrote:
>
>>
>>  On Friday 12 October 2012 10:32 AM, Martin McOsieno wrote:
>>
>>  Hi
>>
>>  Interesting story of the never ending ICANN Conflict of Interest. This
>> time on .africa?
>>
>> But isnt the problem of conflict of interest structural to
>> multistakeholder (MS) governance (not multistakeholder policy inputs, but
>> actual governance) because MS governance is about those who have interest
>> (or stake) being part of decision making processes. ICANN board and its
>> various decision making committees, for instance, are full of people from
>> the domain name industry, an industry that ICANN is supposed to regulate.
>> Could one, coming from an old fashioned democratic tradition, even think of
>> US's Federal Communications Commission or Telecom Regulatory Authority of
>> India having a rep from Verizon or Airtel respectively! No, certainly not,
>> it would be unthinkable. But not so in the ICANN's world of MSism.
>>
>> Consequently most conflict of interest talk at ICANN is window dressing,
>> when the going, and the press, becomes too blatantly bad, as in the case of
>> their former Chairman's misadventures. Otherwise, in the game as usual it
>> is interested parties laying global CIR policies all the way, and the
>> public or the supposed reps of the public sit in the gallery and clap
>> enthusiastically about the untold wonders of MSism.
>>
>> This is what the outgoing CEO of ICANN had to say
>>
>> “Icann must place commercial and financial interests in their appropriate
>> context,” said Mr. Beckstrom, who is scheduled to step down from his post
>> in July. “How can it do this if all top leadership is from the very
>> domain-name industry it is supposed to coordinate independently?
>>
>>
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/19/technology/private-fight-at-internet-naming-firm-goes-public.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1332165645-IV28j+gNERC8I8kD5rURmA
>>
>> See some examples of an endemic of conflicts of interest in ICANN at
>> http://www.internetevolution.com/author.asp?section_id=1072&doc_id=240923.
>>
>> Many of you may not have great positive thoughts about the democratic
>> system of governance in India, but I can assure you that if any
>> governmental/policy organisation in India approached anywhere near the
>> conflict of interest mess that ICANN is, it would take one public interest
>> litigation to the high court or supreme court to get it folded up in a
>> matter of days, even if the government itself does not fold it up (which
>> too I am sure it would do on its own).
>>
>> parminder
>>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121015/30376f67/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From karim.attoumanimohamed at ties.itu.int  Mon Oct 15 07:46:15 2012
From: karim.attoumanimohamed at ties.itu.int (karim.attoumanimohamed at ties.itu.int)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 13:46:15 +0200
Subject: [governance] #Inspirational Speech by Fadi Chehadi @NCUC
In-Reply-To: <CAJwbTiDN_-cpYSgG7=DPmz6vU05TYwinxN-OT4TCTb9wSvKvqA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJwbTiDy6+xZZeKABk8AvQvdpVTSoaHCNQNPWDgLFUwVCxL6aw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJwbTiDN_-cpYSgG7=DPmz6vU05TYwinxN-OT4TCTb9wSvKvqA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121015134615.87531vazdd6y97d3@mail1.itu.ch>

Thx Sala

Quoting "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro"  
<salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com>:

> Dear All,
>
> Inspirational speech by ICANN CEO at NCUC Fadi Chehadi, see:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apTsW7qlFQM&feature=youtu.be
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> --
> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
> P.O. Box 17862
> Suva
> Fiji
>
> Twitter: @SalanietaT
> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
>





-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From drc at virtualized.org  Mon Oct 15 11:50:36 2012
From: drc at virtualized.org (David Conrad)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 11:50:36 -0400
Subject: [governance] Interesting story of the never ending ICANN
 Conflict of Interest. This time on .africa?
In-Reply-To: <CA+EjHYqc=3TTXxErNRPjHhVMsHiamd1YPzHVOgRrpwitfzJr1A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <wmc941ia10rnycgpq80sqiwp.1350212620842@email.android.com> <CA+EjHYqc=3TTXxErNRPjHhVMsHiamd1YPzHVOgRrpwitfzJr1A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <541CAA18-BE92-4BFC-B874-63045A894E0A@virtualized.org>

Louis,

On Oct 15, 2012, at 7:35 AM, Louis Pouzin (well) <pouzin at well.com> wrote:
> As you know ICANN has been constantly extending delays and postponing deadlines in the new extensions process.

I personally think delaying the process instead of moving forward when there is guaranteed breakage.

> No wonder ICANN did collect money up front. They expected to lock their pigeons in a safe cage.

Or, there are upfront costs that ICANN might need to recover.

> Btw, as far as I remember, in its early days ICANN toyed with some sort of auction or lottery for domain names. Apparently the idea was shelved, because illegal in California.

I thought the main reason against doing auctions was that it would severely disadvantage folks without a potentially unbounded money supply.

Regards,
-drc


-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From caribe at entropia.blog.br  Mon Oct 15 14:07:50 2012
From: caribe at entropia.blog.br (Joao Carlos Caribe)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 15:07:50 -0300
Subject: [governance] Bad signs ? IGF inside Bakutel ?
Message-ID: <7D22FD4B-255D-4D9A-97C7-300480A6D70D@entropia.blog.br>

I'm just checking the IGF 2012 meeting venue at Baku Expo Exhibition and Convention Center and checking the Expo Center schedule I found on the date of IGF other event called "Bakutel" 
http://www.bakuexpocenter.az/en/exhibitions.php

BAKUTEL
18th Azerbaijan International 
Telecommunications and Information Technologies 
Exhibition and Conference
November 6-9

Oh my, it could be one misunderstanding, so when I checked the Bakutel site, that's it the logo of IGF on the right side, and the most recent news on Bakutel is the UN IGF announce http://www.bakutel.az/2012/?p=news__read&t=top&q=56&l=en 

It may be some misinterpretation, but my perception leads me to believe that the organizers put the IGF as an event within the Bakutel, or something in the background. But either way it's quite a coincidence that at a time we strive to show the world that the Internet is not an appendix telecommunications, WICT on how they want to define, ICTs within the definition of telecommunications.

What really awaits us in this issue of the IGF? An invasion of telecom executives is a concrete probability ...

--
João Carlos Caribé
Publicitário e Consultor de mídias sociais
http://entropia.blog.br 
caribe at entropia.blog.br
twitter @caribe / skype joaocaribe 
(21) 8761 1967









-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121015/95a4aa17/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From katycarvt at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 14:11:30 2012
From: katycarvt at gmail.com (Katy P)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 11:11:30 -0700
Subject: [governance] Bad signs ? IGF inside Bakutel ?
In-Reply-To: <7D22FD4B-255D-4D9A-97C7-300480A6D70D@entropia.blog.br>
References: <7D22FD4B-255D-4D9A-97C7-300480A6D70D@entropia.blog.br>
Message-ID: <CADBMUMFEjhPym9+opbAQQn4SPjCXUSy5WgwXE7KJSVMGDSysXQ@mail.gmail.com>

I think they changed the BakuTel dates.
On Oct 15, 2012 11:08 AM, "Joao Carlos Caribe" <caribe at entropia.blog.br>
wrote:

> I'm just checking the IGF 2012 meeting venue at Baku Expo Exhibition and
> Convention Center and checking the Expo Center schedule I found on the date
> of IGF other event called "Bakutel"
> http://www.bakuexpocenter.az/en/exhibitions.php
>
> *BAKUTEL*
> 18th Azerbaijan International
> Telecommunications and Information Technologies
> Exhibition and Conference
> November 6-9
>
> Oh my, it could be one misunderstanding, so when I checked the Bakutel
> site, that's it the logo of IGF on the right side, and the most recent news
> on Bakutel is the UN IGF announce
> http://www.bakutel.az/2012/?p=news__read&t=top&q=56&l=en
>
> It may be some misinterpretation, but my perception leads me to believe that
> the organizers put the IGF as an event within the Bakutel, or something in
> the background. But either way it's quite a coincidence that at a time we
> strive to show the world that the Internet is not an appendix
> telecommunications, WICT on how they want to define, ICTs within the
> definition of telecommunications.
>
> What really awaits us in this issue of the IGF? An invasion of telecom
> executives is a concrete probability ...
>
> --
> João Carlos Caribé
> Publicitário e Consultor de mídias sociais
> http://entropia.blog.br
> caribe at entropia.blog.br
> twitter @caribe / skype joaocaribe
> (21) 8761 1967
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121015/3ebc43f5/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From lucabelli at hotmail.it  Tue Oct 16 04:41:43 2012
From: lucabelli at hotmail.it (Luca Belli)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 10:41:43 +0200
Subject: [governance] Open Invitation to IGF Workshop 146
Message-ID: <DUB108-W6AF1C81E6CC1317A08E82C6700@phx.gbl>


Dear list members,
This mail is to invite you to the IGF Workshop 146 “Intellectual Property Rights and the freedom to share: are the two compatible?” that will take place at the Baku Expo Exhibition and Convention Centre (room 4) on November 8th from 11:00 to 12:30 (GMT +4).
The workshop has been organised by a group of alumni of the ISOC Next Generation Leaders Programme under the mentorship of the Internet Society and will focus on the tension between the fundamental intellectual property rights – notably, copyright – and “the more liberal freedom to share, which is a unique attribute of the emerging information society and represents the quintessence of the right to receive and impart information and ideas”.
The purpose of the workshop is to trigger a dynamic discussion between the attendees and the panellists in order to analyse the different nuances of the issues at stake. For this reason, we welcome the participation of the audience, be it on-site or remote.
Knowing that many members of this list are truly passionate about IPR issues, we urge you to join our debate and share with us your standpoint. 
Further details on the workshop may be found here http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/w2012/proposals
Further details on the ISOC Next Generation Leaders Programme may be found here http://www.internetsociety.org/
Please, feel free to circulate this invitation.
We look forward to meeting you in Baku. Best regards
The organisers of the IGF workshop 146

Luca Belli
Doctorant en Droit PublicCERSA,Université Panthéon-AssasSorbonne University
 		 	   		  
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121016/f076fb38/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From riaz.tayob at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 08:08:24 2012
From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 15:08:24 +0300
Subject: [governance] Gary McKinnon extradition decision - live coverage
Message-ID: <507D4E38.4080508@gmail.com>

[Pity that the EU Court of Human Rights ignored torture risks in the US 
for muslims (that prepares the way for extradition of Assange should the 
matter come up - first they came for the muslims eh?)... at least the UK 
court provided a good judgement in this case... I mean the UN special 
rapporteur could not be that wrong about US treatment of special 
prisoners...


  Gary McKinnon extradition decision - live coverage

*Live*After a decade-long legal battle, hacker will learn whether or not 
he has won his battle to avoid extradition to the US

  * <http://www.facebook.com/dialog/feed?app_id=180444840287&link=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2012/oct/16/gary-mckinnon-extradition-decision-live&display=popup&redirect_uri=http://static-serve.appspot.com/static/facebook-share/callback.html&show_error=false>

  * Lizzy Davies <http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/lizzydavies>
  *
      o
        Lizzy Davies <http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/lizzydavies>
      o guardian.co.uk <http://www.guardian.co.uk/>, Tuesday 16 October
        2012 13.01 BST

Gary McKinnon
Gary McKinnon at Bow Street magistrates court in London in 2006. 
Photograph: Bruno Vincent/Getty Images

*Live*

Sort by:

  * Latest first
  * Oldest first

Auto update:

  * On
  * Off


    Full May statement

Here's the home secretary's statement to the House verbatim.

    Since I came into office, the sole issue on which I have been
    required to make a decision is whether Mr McKinnon's extradition to
    the United States would breach his human rights.

    Mr McKinnon is accused of serious crimes. But there is also no doubt
    that he is seriously ill. He has Asperger's Syndrome, and suffers
    from depressive illness. The legal question before me is now whether
    the extent of that illness is sufficient to preclude extradition.

    After careful consideration of all of the relevant material, I have
    concluded that Mr McKinnon's extradition would give rise to such a
    high risk of him ending his life that a decision to extradite would
    be incompatible with Mr McKinnon's human rights.

    I have therefore withdrawn the extradition order against Mr McKinnon.
    It will now be for the director of public prosecutions to decide
    whether Mr McKinnon has a case to answer in a UK court.

13:03 BST 
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2012/oct/16/gary-mckinnon-extradition-decision-live#block-507d4d2b58f91d7bbadac67b> 



    "A victory for compassion"

Relief for McKinnon's Tory MP David Burrowes- not only because his 
constituent is staying here, but also, presumably, because he doesn't 
have to resign. 
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9610753/Gary-McKinnon-extradition-Ministerial-aide-will-quit-David-Cameron-warned.html>

    Today is a victory for compassion, and pre-election promises being kept.

13:01 BST 
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2012/oct/16/gary-mckinnon-extradition-decision-live#block-507d4cb658f91d7bbadac679> 


    Patrick Wintour @*patrickwintour* <https://twitter.com/patrickwintour>

    T May (nearly) "I have concluded that Mr McKinnon's extradiiton gave
    rise to a high risk that I would be demolished by the Daily Mail"

    16 Oct 12
    <https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/statuses/258170986090864641>

      * *Reply*
        <https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?in_reply_to=258170986090864641>
      * *Retweet*
        <https://twitter.com/intent/retweet?tweet_id=258170986090864641>
      * *Favorite*
        <https://twitter.com/intent/favorite?tweet_id=258170986090864641>

A rather more sceptical Tweet from the Guardian's political editor. In 
its Affront to British Justice campaign, the Daily Mail has pushed for 
McKinnon and others in a similar position to stand trial in the UK.

12:59 BST 
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2012/oct/16/gary-mckinnon-extradition-decision-live#block-507d4c0ac0e361310bc6cfb7> 


Shami Chakrabarti, director of Liberty, has welcomed the move to save 
McKinnon from extradition. She has issued a statement saying:

    Extradition should prevent fugitives escaping -- not allow for
    Britons like Gary to be parcelled off around the world based on
    allegations of offences committed here at home.

    This campaign, led by Gary's fearless mother, united lawyers,
    politicians, press and public from across the spectrum in the cause
    of compassion and common sense.

12:53 BST 
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2012/oct/16/gary-mckinnon-extradition-decision-live#block-507d4ac758f91d7bbadac675> 



    McKinnon verdict welcomed by MPs

    Keith Vaz MP @*Keith_VazMP* <https://twitter.com/Keith_VazMP>

    Excellent result on Gary. Exactly what Home affairs recommended.
    Well done Janis Sharp and David Burrows MP +the Daily Mail#GaryMckinnon

    16 Oct 12 <https://twitter.com/Keith_VazMP/statuses/258170883640795136>

      * *Reply*
        <https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?in_reply_to=258170883640795136>
      * *Retweet*
        <https://twitter.com/intent/retweet?tweet_id=258170883640795136>
      * *Favorite*
        <https://twitter.com/intent/favorite?tweet_id=258170883640795136>

    Caroline Lucas @*CarolineLucas* <https://twitter.com/CarolineLucas>

    Fantastic news that Gary McKinnon will not be extradited! Congrats
    to @*JanisSharp* <https://twitter.com/JanisSharp> & everyone
    involved #*freegary* <https://twitter.com/search/%23freegary>

    16 Oct 12
    <https://twitter.com/CarolineLucas/statuses/258170031282745345>

      * *Reply*
        <https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?in_reply_to=258170031282745345>
      * *Retweet*
        <https://twitter.com/intent/retweet?tweet_id=258170031282745345>
      * *Favorite*
        <https://twitter.com/intent/favorite?tweet_id=258170031282745345>

    Julian Huppert

      * ?

    @*julianhuppert* <https://twitter.com/julianhuppert>

    Gary McKinnon statement now... He will stay here and not be
    extradited. Fantastic news!!! #*fb* <https://twitter.com/search/%23fb>

    16 Oct 12
    <https://twitter.com/julianhuppert/statuses/258169698678628352>

      * *Reply*
        <https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?in_reply_to=258169698678628352>
      * *Retweet*
        <https://twitter.com/intent/retweet?tweet_id=258169698678628352>
      * *Favorite*
        <https://twitter.com/intent/favorite?tweet_id=258169698678628352>

    Alistair Carmichael @*acarmichaelmp*
    <https://twitter.com/acarmichaelmp>

    Being in government can be difficult but sometimes it can be bloody
    brilliant too! #*freegary* <https://twitter.com/search/%23freegary>

    16 Oct 12
    <https://twitter.com/acarmichaelmp/statuses/258170325911601152>

      * *Reply*
        <https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?in_reply_to=258170325911601152>
      * *Retweet*
        <https://twitter.com/intent/retweet?tweet_id=258170325911601152>
      * *Favorite*
        <https://twitter.com/intent/favorite?tweet_id=258170325911601152>

12:49 BST 
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2012/oct/16/gary-mckinnon-extradition-decision-live#block-507d49afc0e361310bc6cfb1> 



    Over to the DPP

Some more detail on the dramatic Gary McKinnon announcement.

May said the sole issue she was considering in the case was whether 
extradition to the United States "would breach his human rights".

There was no doubt, she said, that McKinnon was "seriously ill" and the 
extradition warrant against him should therefore be withdrawn.

It is now for the director of public prosecutions Keir Starmer QC to 
decide whether he should face trial in the UK, the home secretary added.

12:46 BST 
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2012/oct/16/gary-mckinnon-extradition-decision-live#block-507d48fdc0e361310bc6cfb0> 



    US-UK extradition "sound"

May says the US-UK extradition arrangement is "broadly sound" and brings 
benefits to both countries, as seen recently with the extradition of Abu 
Hamza and other terrorist suspects.

She says that while there is "a perception of imbalance", the review 
carried out by Sir Scott Baker found this was not grounded in fact.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121016/cad1bb77/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Lizzy-Davies-004.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 7934 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121016/cad1bb77/attachment.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Gary-McKinnon-011.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 65712 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121016/cad1bb77/attachment-0001.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: 438c27e7731adb6e780f55334f21728f_normal.png
Type: image/png
Size: 3807 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121016/cad1bb77/attachment.png>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: lz4uyj9vi64xznjalwt4_normal.png
Type: image/png
Size: 3841 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121016/cad1bb77/attachment-0001.png>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: twitterProfilePhoto_normal.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1659 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121016/cad1bb77/attachment-0002.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Huppert_image_normal.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1756 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121016/cad1bb77/attachment-0003.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: c4496kn5o9ac4p3a8ctx_normal.jpeg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1467 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121016/cad1bb77/attachment.jpeg>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From jpohle at vub.ac.be  Tue Oct 16 12:17:46 2012
From: jpohle at vub.ac.be (Julia Pohle)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 18:17:46 +0200
Subject: [governance] 7th GigaNet Symposium, 5 Nov 2012: registration is
 open
In-Reply-To: <507D8859.3000306@vub.ac.be>
References: <507D8859.3000306@vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <507D88AA.1070202@vub.ac.be>


Registration for the next GigaNet symposium, taking place as a pre-event 
to the UN IGF on 5 November in Baku, is now open: 
http://www.amiando.com/giganet2012

Please find below the final program:


*GIGANET 7th Annual Symposium*
5 November 2012

Pre-conference to the UN Internet Governance Forum
Baku Expo Exhibition and Convention Center, Baku, Azerbaijan

http://www.amiando.com/giganet2012

*Program *

9:00 -- 10:00 - The UN, the ITU and Internet governance

Contested Boundaries: The International Telecommunication Regulations 
and Internet Governance. William Drake -- University of Zurich

New Issue Domains in the UN Ambit: Negotiating Meanings for Security in 
Cyberspace. Roxane Radu -- Graduate Institute of International and 
Development Studies

Regionalism and the Caribbean Internet Governance Forum. Dhanaraj Thakur 
-- University of the West Indies


10.00 -- 11:15 -- The role of private actors in Internet governance

A Quantitative Study of the Factors Driving DPI Deployment by Network 
Operators Worldwide. Hadi Asghari and Michel Van Eeten -- Delft 
University of Technology; Milton Mueller -- Syracuse University; Shirin 
Tabatabaie -- Delft University of Technology

 From Neutral Thirds to Private Law Enforcers. Nicole van der Meulen and 
Arno Lodder -- Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam

Internet Policies and Corporate Social Responsibility. Rolf H. Weber -- 
University of Zurich


11.15 -- 11.45 Coffee break


11:45 -- 13:00 -- Governance of critical Internet resources

Dimensioning the Elephant: An Empirical Analysis of the IPv4 Transfer 
Market. Milton Mueller and Brenden Kuerbis, Syracuse University

Laying the Path: Technical Approaches to Legal and Policy Issues in 
Internet Design. Sandra Braman -- University of Wisconsin -- Milwaukee

Impact of the New gTLD Program: Domain Name Regulation Revolution in 
China. Hongbin Zhu -- China Internet Network Information Centre


13.00 -- 14.30: Lunch


14.30 -- 15.45: The Internet, civic engagement and state repression

Media Disruption and Revolutionary Unrest: Evidence from Mubarak's 
Quasi-Experiment. Navid Hassanpour -- Yale University

The Effects of the Internet on Civic Engagement Under Authoritarianism. 
The Case of Azerbaijan. Katy Pearce and Sarah Kendzior -- University of 
Washington; Deen Freelon -- American University

Digital Citizenship in the South Caucasus: A Comparative Analysis 
between Armenia, Georgia and Azerbaijan. Wayne Buente -- University of 
Hawaii; Lala Hajibayova -- Indiana University


15.45 -- 16.15: Coffee


16.15 -- 17.30: Cyber security, privacy and copyright

Cookies versus Clams. Tracking Technologies and their Implications for 
Online Privacy. Andreas Kuehn -- Syracuse University

The Evolution of Formal and Informal Institutions related to 
Cyber-Security: A Comparison of China and India. Nir Kshetri -- 
University of North Carolina

Discourse Networks on Access Blocking in France and Germany and the 
European Union. Yana Breindl -- Georg-August Universität Göttingen


18.00 -- 19.30: Closing reception


Registration and contact

The symposium is free of charge.
Please visit our conference website for registration and additional 
information: http://www.amiando.com/giganet2012



____________________________________________________________

*Julia Pohle* | Researcher

iMinds - Digital Society
SMIT, Studies on Media, Information & Telecommunication
Vrije Universiteit Brussel

Julia.Pohle at vub.ac.be
office: +32 2 629 16 32
mobile: +32 488 596721
Pleinlaan 9 | 1050 Brussels | Belgium

http://smit.vub.ac.be
_______________________________________________________________






-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121016/01f27184/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From riaz.tayob at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 05:14:21 2012
From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 12:14:21 +0300
Subject: [governance] US disappointed by 'laughable' decision on Gary
 McKinnon
Message-ID: <507E76ED.2080607@gmail.com>

[Torture is just sooo funneeeeee]


  US disappointed by 'laughable' decision on Gary McKinnon


      State Department officials will study ruling and could ask
      Interpol to issue red notice

Nikhil Kumar <http://www.independent.co.uk/biography/nikhil-kumar> 
Author Biography

New York

Wednesday 17 October 2012


The American government expressed its disappointment last night after 
the Home Secretary halted Gary McKinnon's extradition to the US.

The State Department said it was examining the ruling by Theresa May 
yesterday to block the extradition of the 46-year-old computer hacker 
with Asperger's syndrome and severe depression as it would be 
"incompatible with human rights". Victoria Nuland, a spokeswoman for the 
department, said the US "was disappointed by the decision" to deny Mr 
McKinnon's transfer across the Atlantic to face what she called "long 
overdue justice in the United States".

For 10 years, American prosecutors have been seeking to bring Mr 
McKinnon to the US to face trial for hacking into military computers. It 
is claimed that Mr McKinnon damaged scores of machines as a result. He 
denies any malicious intent, saying instead that he was looking for 
files related to UFOs.

Earlier this year, the Prime Minister David Cameron raised the case with 
Barack Obama. On a visit to Washington, Mr Cameron acknowledged that Mr 
McKinnon was accused of a "very important and significant crime" but 
that he was hoping that "a way through can be found".

The US Department of Justice said that it was also disappointed at the 
Home Secretary's decision, "particularly given the past decisions of the 
UK courts and prior Home Secretaries that he should face trial in the 
United States". It did not, however, view the ruling as a precedent for 
other cases.

"The Home Secretary has described this case as exceptional and, thus, 
this decision does not set a precedent for future cases," said Rebekah 
Carmichael, a spokeswoman for the department. "The Home Secretary has 
acknowledged that Mr. McKinnon is accused of serious crimes". She added 
that, despite this ruling, the US-UK extradition relationship "remains 
strong, as is demonstrated by the extradition of five alleged 
terrorists" to the US earlier in October. "Our extradition treaty serves 
the interests of both our nations," said Ms Carmichael.

Douglas McNabb, a Washington-based expert on US federal law, said that 
US authorities may yet decide to pursue Mr McKinnon via Interpol, the 
international policing body. "Now that the Home Secretary has made this 
decision that, of course, bars the US from seeking his extradition, I 
think the next step is that they may well ask Interpol to issue a red 
notice... so that if Mr McKinnon were to travel outside the UK, the red 
notice would pop up and he would be arrested," he said. This, he 
explained, would open the door to the possibility of renewed extradition 
proceedings in the country of his arrest.

Another US lawyer, David Rivkin, who worked for the Reagan and Bush 
administrations, criticised Ms May's decision, saying that to deny the 
extradition on health grounds was "laughable". "Under that logic, 
anybody who claims some kind of physical or mental problem can commit 
crimes with impunity and get away with it," he told the BBC.

The US said the extradition relationship remained strong, as shown by 
the Hamza case

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121017/f78b6ae9/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: plus.png
Type: image/png
Size: 2999 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121017/f78b6ae9/attachment.png>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 05:49:22 2012
From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 21:49:22 +1200
Subject: [governance] Caribbean Preparatory Meeting for the World Conference
 on International Telecommunications (WCIT)
Message-ID: <CAJwbTiCgkUCk_iytJus8Fi_LmWj1R1G6yPapv7Y70vZhhVviqQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear All,

This is a friendly reminder of in Invitation that was sent last month. You
are invited to participate in the Preparatory process, hear views and make
your views known. Remote Participation is available but you will need to
register via
http://portal.gctwebcasts.com/synapse/Default.aspx?alias=portal.gctwebcasts.com/synapse/ctu
Please spread the word.

I look forward to e-seeing you there.

Kind Regards,

-- 
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
P.O. Box 17862
Suva
Fiji

Twitter: @SalanietaT
Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121017/ea79b5fd/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From anriette at apc.org  Wed Oct 17 06:09:31 2012
From: anriette at apc.org (Anriette Esterhuysen)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 12:09:31 +0200
Subject: [governance] GISWatch special edition: in-depth country reports
In-Reply-To: <CACTo+v8HE35=M7ZGuJq7xVO9DPuv6W107GMkuYBF_boaGO+Q6g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1349786154.44220.BPMail_high_noncarrier@web120103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <20121011124947.GN5153@baribal.tarvainen.info> <20121011125212.GO5153@baribal.tarvainen.info> <CACTo+v8HE35=M7ZGuJq7xVO9DPuv6W107GMkuYBF_boaGO+Q6g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <507E83DB.7050809@apc.org>

Dear all

Apologies for not being present on the list... this time of year
fundraising, regional IGFs, global IGFs, and everything else
work-related conspires to make life very difficult.

On a more positive note.. I am really pleased to point you to a special
edition of Global Information Society Watch which we have just released.
It is a follow up on the 2011 report which focused on freedom of expression.

http://giswatch.org/blog-entry/756/special-edition-giswatch-2011-update-i

This special edition contains in-depth reports from Argentina,
Azerbaijan, Indonesia, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and South Africa.

Anriette



------------------------------------------------------
anriette esterhuysen anriette at apc.org
executive director, association for progressive communications
www.apc.org
po box 29755, melville 2109
south africa
tel/fax +27 11 726 1692

-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From iza at anr.org  Wed Oct 17 06:54:51 2012
From: iza at anr.org (Izumi AIZU)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 19:54:51 +0900
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [igf_members] Extension of online registration
 Deadline
In-Reply-To: <B728645B-A1A9-4D20-BE9C-8DD00DA10174@unog.ch>
References: <B728645B-A1A9-4D20-BE9C-8DD00DA10174@unog.ch>
Message-ID: <CA+YNoKg=f8WBgVK-Ba4NTdF7ngAFO-+A_58gEcO9kGkEdYmh1g@mail.gmail.com>

FYI

Izumi

----------転送メッセージ----------
From: *Chengetai Masango*
日付: 2012年10月17日水曜日
件名: [igf_members] Extension of online registration Deadline
To: igf Forum <igf_members at intgovforum.org>


Dear All,

Due to quite a large number requests to extend the online registration
deadline for IGF Baku, the deadline has been extended to *Sunday, 21 October
*.

No further extensions will be possible after this date.

Best regards

Chengetai




-- 
                     >> Izumi Aizu <<
Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
Japan
www.anr.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121017/2d407678/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From bommelaer at isoc.org  Wed Oct 17 10:31:32 2012
From: bommelaer at isoc.org (Constance Bommelaer)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 16:31:32 +0200
Subject: [governance] Join online discussions to prepare the first WSIS+10
 Review event (Until 29 October)
In-Reply-To: <507EBDEB.10702@isoc.org>
References: <507EBDEB.10702@isoc.org>
Message-ID: <507EC144.4020600@isoc.org>


Dear all,

We would like to bring to your attention that UNESCO has launched a
consultation to prepare for the WSIS+10 Review.

Detailed explanations on the consultation and how to contribute are 
available at the end of this note.

Thank you and best regards,

Constance Bommelaer




-----Original Message-----
From: WSIS Knowledge Communities [mailto:wsisplatform at unesco.org]
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 11:30
To: Yamanaka, Mika
Subject: Join online discussions to prepare jointly the first WSIS+10
review event (Until 29 October)

Dear WSIS KC members,

In cooperation with ITU, UNDP and UNCTAD, UNESCO is hosting the first
review multistakeholder WSIS+10 event "Towards Knowledge Societies for
Peace and Sustainable Development" that will take place at UNESCO
Headquarters, Paris, France, from 25-27 February 2013. This
multistakeholder and high-level event will bring governments, civil
society, the private sector and international organizations together on
key knowledge societies topics; we will review WSIS developments,
discuss current and future knowledge society trends and formulate
post-2015 recommendations

The second phase of the open consultations is now launched at the WSIS
Knowledge Communities (WSIS KC - www.wsis-community.org). You are
invited to contribute to online discussions on themes, format and the
process leading to the 2013 WSIS+10 review event until 29 October by
clicking:
http://www.wsis-community.org/pg/forum/topic/583571/what-are-your-views-on-key-topics-the-preparatory-process-and-format-for-the-upcoming-2013-wsis10-review-event-background-info-below/.

We are requesting your ideas and input on
A) Themes:
1. Key recent trends (social networking etc.-best relevant for many
Action Lines) -- and how these trends should best be discussed/addressed
at this meeting (see 3.)

2. Key future knowledge and sustainable development trends
B) Format, for example:

3. How can above themes best be addressed in a cross-cutting manner,
bringing together different Action Lines on key topics?
C) Process leading to the 2013 event:

4. In the context of scarce budgets, how can we still best facilitate
the contributions and input from different stakeholders to the
preparatory process and to the 2013 event, including of the most
marginalized?

Please share your ideas in this event!









-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From iza at anr.org  Wed Oct 17 21:20:58 2012
From: iza at anr.org (Izumi AIZU)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 10:20:58 +0900
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [igf_members] Proposal: Human Rights Roundtable
In-Reply-To: <39887.10.254.253.3.1350023752.squirrel@sqmail.gn.apc.org>
References: <39887.10.254.253.3.1350023752.squirrel@sqmail.gn.apc.org>
Message-ID: <CA+YNoKi2hiP-ECmB87FSVSGecTZX-fYnximispaRXE8Fa6AC1A@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list,

APC has proposed this and I think IGC should support this.

Comments welcome.

izumi



---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:  <alice at apc.org>
Date: 2012/10/12
Subject: [igf_members] Proposal: Human Rights Roundtable
To: igf_members at intgovforum.org


Dear Colleaques,

We wish to submit this proposal for a Human Rights round Table.

Apologies for submitting it a bit late, but hope you will consider it.

Best regards
Alice

------------------------------

HUMAN RIGHTS ROUNDTABLE
IGF 2012

Background

During the IGF MAG meeting held in May 2012 in Geneva, several ways to
develop the cross-cutting issues (human rights and development) were
proposed. Particularly,  the group in charge of structuring the Taking
Stock and the Way Forward session suggested that the second part of the
session includes feedback from the cross-cutting

themes which could be developed through round tables. It was supported by
other MAG members (see transcripts MAG meeting 17 May)[1].

Additionally, it is important to mention as a background element, that
approximately 40 workshop proposals for the 2012 Internet Governance Forum
make specific reference to human rights related issues, including privacy,
freedom of expression, data rights, cyber security, and internet
intermediary liability.

Consumer rights are a growing area of interest, including the need for
transparency, regulatory oversight, and mechanisms for addressing consumer
complaints.  Data ownership and privacy are major issues in this area.

Human rights in relation to security is a major theme for the IGF,
including cybercrime, and the tension between privacy and security. There
are several proposed workshops on the protection of children and youth, as
well as practical workshops on surveillance and data protection.

Developing best practices and legal frameworks is discussed in many of the
workshop proposals, particularly in light of increasing restrictions on
freedom of expression, and new liabilities for internet intermediaries.

Multi-stakeholderism is a cross-cutting theme in the workshop proposals,
particularly with respect to determining best practices and frameworks.

Based on it, Kenya, in partnership with APC, Finland and Sweden, would
like to propose the organisation of a human rights round table which look
at how HR issues related to the internet were addressed in the various
main sessions and workshops.


Objective

The objective of the human rights round table is to gather comprehensive
feedback from the various main sessions and workshops in relation to which
human rights issues were addressed by the various stakeholders and to use
those inputs to feed the Taking Stock and the Way Forward session.  It
will help us to increase knowledge and understanding of the human rights
and the internet specific concerns and challenges the various stakeholders
have as well as their proposals to address them in the framework of the
internet governance debate.  It will also help to increase understanding
of the linkages between the HR issues addressed in the various main
sessions and the main IGF theme.

Themes in analysis will include privacy, censorship, intermediary
liability, cybercrime, among others.

Format

The round table will be held in a multi-stakeholder environment in which
speakers/participants who took part of the various main sessions and
workshops bring their perspectives in a concrete manner to feed the TSWF
session and propose ways to advance the HR discussion within the IGF.

-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 02:26:29 2012
From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 18:26:29 +1200
Subject: [governance] Proposal: Human Rights Roundtable [Please express your
 views]
Message-ID: <CAJwbTiCYH21jZ3N02+V4kHeJHCT4PNkGZWVG1-NmeHTv-NaiNA@mail.gmail.com>

I agree Izumi. +1

What do others think. Please indicate. (+1 to show support) and (-1 to show
that you don't support the Proposal).

Kind Regards

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:

> Dear list,
>
> APC has proposed this and I think IGC should support this.
>
> Comments welcome.
>
> izumi
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From:  <alice at apc.org>
> Date: 2012/10/12
> Subject: [igf_members] Proposal: Human Rights Roundtable
> To: igf_members at intgovforum.org
>
>
> Dear Colleaques,
>
> We wish to submit this proposal for a Human Rights round Table.
>
> Apologies for submitting it a bit late, but hope you will consider it.
>
> Best regards
> Alice
>
> ------------------------------
>
> HUMAN RIGHTS ROUNDTABLE
> IGF 2012
>
> Background
>
> During the IGF MAG meeting held in May 2012 in Geneva, several ways to
> develop the cross-cutting issues (human rights and development) were
> proposed. Particularly,  the group in charge of structuring the Taking
> Stock and the Way Forward session suggested that the second part of the
> session includes feedback from the cross-cutting
>
> themes which could be developed through round tables. It was supported by
> other MAG members (see transcripts MAG meeting 17 May)[1].
>
> Additionally, it is important to mention as a background element, that
> approximately 40 workshop proposals for the 2012 Internet Governance Forum
> make specific reference to human rights related issues, including privacy,
> freedom of expression, data rights, cyber security, and internet
> intermediary liability.
>
> Consumer rights are a growing area of interest, including the need for
> transparency, regulatory oversight, and mechanisms for addressing consumer
> complaints.  Data ownership and privacy are major issues in this area.
>
> Human rights in relation to security is a major theme for the IGF,
> including cybercrime, and the tension between privacy and security. There
> are several proposed workshops on the protection of children and youth, as
> well as practical workshops on surveillance and data protection.
>
> Developing best practices and legal frameworks is discussed in many of the
> workshop proposals, particularly in light of increasing restrictions on
> freedom of expression, and new liabilities for internet intermediaries.
>
> Multi-stakeholderism is a cross-cutting theme in the workshop proposals,
> particularly with respect to determining best practices and frameworks.
>
> Based on it, Kenya, in partnership with APC, Finland and Sweden, would
> like to propose the organisation of a human rights round table which look
> at how HR issues related to the internet were addressed in the various
> main sessions and workshops.
>
>
> Objective
>
> The objective of the human rights round table is to gather comprehensive
> feedback from the various main sessions and workshops in relation to which
> human rights issues were addressed by the various stakeholders and to use
> those inputs to feed the Taking Stock and the Way Forward session.  It
> will help us to increase knowledge and understanding of the human rights
> and the internet specific concerns and challenges the various stakeholders
> have as well as their proposals to address them in the framework of the
> internet governance debate.  It will also help to increase understanding
> of the linkages between the HR issues addressed in the various main
> sessions and the main IGF theme.
>
> Themes in analysis will include privacy, censorship, intermediary
> liability, cybercrime, among others.
>
> Format
>
> The round table will be held in a multi-stakeholder environment in which
> speakers/participants who took part of the various main sessions and
> workshops bring their perspectives in a concrete manner to feed the TSWF
> session and propose ways to advance the HR discussion within the IGF.
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
P.O. Box 17862
Suva
Fiji

Twitter: @SalanietaT
Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121018/3dd0c608/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From chaitanyabd at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 02:31:14 2012
From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 12:01:14 +0530
Subject: [governance] Proposal: Human Rights Roundtable [Please express
 your views]
In-Reply-To: <CAJwbTiCYH21jZ3N02+V4kHeJHCT4PNkGZWVG1-NmeHTv-NaiNA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJwbTiCYH21jZ3N02+V4kHeJHCT4PNkGZWVG1-NmeHTv-NaiNA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEP5zKSK87csFNH=Xk_jzjoxxdziO8vFKV94uy=CeosFqCCphA@mail.gmail.com>

+1!

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 11:56 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <
salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote:

> I agree Izumi. +1
>
> What do others think. Please indicate. (+1 to show support) and (-1 to
> show that you don't support the Proposal).
>
> Kind Regards
>
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:
>
>> Dear list,
>>
>> APC has proposed this and I think IGC should support this.
>>
>> Comments welcome.
>>
>> izumi
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From:  <alice at apc.org>
>> Date: 2012/10/12
>> Subject: [igf_members] Proposal: Human Rights Roundtable
>> To: igf_members at intgovforum.org
>>
>>
>> Dear Colleaques,
>>
>> We wish to submit this proposal for a Human Rights round Table.
>>
>> Apologies for submitting it a bit late, but hope you will consider it.
>>
>> Best regards
>> Alice
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> HUMAN RIGHTS ROUNDTABLE
>> IGF 2012
>>
>> Background
>>
>> During the IGF MAG meeting held in May 2012 in Geneva, several ways to
>> develop the cross-cutting issues (human rights and development) were
>> proposed. Particularly,  the group in charge of structuring the Taking
>> Stock and the Way Forward session suggested that the second part of the
>> session includes feedback from the cross-cutting
>>
>> themes which could be developed through round tables. It was supported by
>> other MAG members (see transcripts MAG meeting 17 May)[1].
>>
>> Additionally, it is important to mention as a background element, that
>> approximately 40 workshop proposals for the 2012 Internet Governance Forum
>> make specific reference to human rights related issues, including privacy,
>> freedom of expression, data rights, cyber security, and internet
>> intermediary liability.
>>
>> Consumer rights are a growing area of interest, including the need for
>> transparency, regulatory oversight, and mechanisms for addressing consumer
>> complaints.  Data ownership and privacy are major issues in this area.
>>
>> Human rights in relation to security is a major theme for the IGF,
>> including cybercrime, and the tension between privacy and security. There
>> are several proposed workshops on the protection of children and youth, as
>> well as practical workshops on surveillance and data protection.
>>
>> Developing best practices and legal frameworks is discussed in many of the
>> workshop proposals, particularly in light of increasing restrictions on
>> freedom of expression, and new liabilities for internet intermediaries.
>>
>> Multi-stakeholderism is a cross-cutting theme in the workshop proposals,
>> particularly with respect to determining best practices and frameworks.
>>
>> Based on it, Kenya, in partnership with APC, Finland and Sweden, would
>> like to propose the organisation of a human rights round table which look
>> at how HR issues related to the internet were addressed in the various
>> main sessions and workshops.
>>
>>
>> Objective
>>
>> The objective of the human rights round table is to gather comprehensive
>> feedback from the various main sessions and workshops in relation to which
>> human rights issues were addressed by the various stakeholders and to use
>> those inputs to feed the Taking Stock and the Way Forward session.  It
>> will help us to increase knowledge and understanding of the human rights
>> and the internet specific concerns and challenges the various stakeholders
>> have as well as their proposals to address them in the framework of the
>> internet governance debate.  It will also help to increase understanding
>> of the linkages between the HR issues addressed in the various main
>> sessions and the main IGF theme.
>>
>> Themes in analysis will include privacy, censorship, intermediary
>> liability, cybercrime, among others.
>>
>> Format
>>
>> The round table will be held in a multi-stakeholder environment in which
>> speakers/participants who took part of the various main sessions and
>> workshops bring their perspectives in a concrete manner to feed the TSWF
>> session and propose ways to advance the HR discussion within the IGF.
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
> P.O. Box 17862
> Suva
> Fiji
>
> Twitter: @SalanietaT
> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20121018/39858b17/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From bertrand.kabembela at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 02:45:12 2012
From: bertrand.kabembela at gmail.com (Bertrand KABEMBELA)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 08:45:12 +0200
Subject: [governance] Proposal: Human Rights Roundtable [Please express
 your views]
In-Reply-To: <CAJwbTiCYH21jZ3N02+V4kHeJHCT4PNkGZWVG1-NmeHTv-NaiNA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJwbTiCYH21jZ3N02+V4kHeJHCT4PNkGZWVG1-NmeHTv-NaiNA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOxDkqhcfXMbJ+9A1BD1k26np9w-y-xTNf5Kstvm6RaW-Pozjg@mail.gmail.com>

I agree with this proposal. + 1

Kind Regards

Bertrand







2012/10/18, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro
<salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com>:
> I agree Izumi. +1
>
> What do others think. Please indicate. (+1 to show support) and (-1 to show
> that you don't support the Proposal).
>
> Kind Regards
>
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:
>
>> Dear list,
>>
>> APC has proposed this and I think IGC should support this.
>>
>> Comments welcome.
>>
>> izumi
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From:  <alice at apc.org>
>> Date: 2012/10/12
>> Subject: [igf_members] Proposal: Human Rights Roundtable
>> To: igf_members at intgovforum.org
>>
>>
>> Dear Colleaques,
>>
>> We wish to submit this proposal for a Human Rights round Table.
>>
>> Apologies for submitting it a bit late, but hope you will consider it.
>>
>> Best regards
>> Alice
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> HUMAN RIGHTS ROUNDTABLE
>> IGF 2012
>>
>> Background
>>
>> During the IGF MAG meeting held in May 2012 in Geneva, several ways to
>> develop the cross-cutting issues (human rights and development) were
>> proposed. Particularly,  the group in charge of structuring the Taking
>> Stock and the Way Forward session suggested that the second part of the
>> session includes feedback from the cross-cutting
>>
>> themes which could be developed through round tables. It was supported by
>> other MAG members (see transcripts MAG meeting 17 May)[1].
>>
>> Additionally, it is important to mention as a background element, that
>> approximately 40 workshop proposals for the 2012 Internet Governance
>> Forum
>> make specific reference to human rights related issues, including
>> privacy,
>> freedom of expression, data rights, cyber security, and internet
>> intermediary liability.
>>
>> Consumer rights are a growing area of interest, including the need for
>> transparency, regulatory oversight, and mechanisms for addressing
>> consumer
>> complaints.  Data ownership and privacy are major issues in this area.
>>
>> Human rights in relation to security is a major theme for the IGF,
>> including cybercrime, and the tension between privacy and security. There
>> are several proposed workshops on the protection of children and youth,
>> as
>> well as practical workshops on surveillance and data protection.
>>
>> Developing best practices and legal frameworks is discussed in many of
>> the
>> workshop proposals, particularly in light of increasing restrictions on
>> freedom of expression, and new liabilities for internet intermediaries.
>>
>> Multi-stakeholderism is a cross-cutting theme in the workshop proposals,
>> particularly with respect to determining best practices and frameworks.
>>
>> Based on it, Kenya, in partnership with APC, Finland and Sweden, would
>> like to propose the organisation of a human rights round table which look
>> at how HR issues related to the internet were addressed in the various
>> main sessions and workshops.
>>
>>
>> Objective
>>
>> The objective of the human rights round table is to gather comprehensive
>> feedback from the various main sessions and workshops in relation to
>> which
>> human rights issues were addressed by the various stakeholders and to use
>> those inputs to feed the Taking Stock and the Way Forward session.  It
>> will help us to increase knowledge and understanding of the human rights
>> and the internet specific concerns and challenges the various
>> stakeholders
>> have as well as their proposals to address them in the framework of the
>> internet governance debate.  It will also help to increase understanding
>> of the linkages between the HR issues addressed in the various main
>> sessions and the main IGF theme.
>>
>> Themes in analysis will include privacy, censorship, intermediary
>> liability, cybercrime, among others.
>>
>> Format
>>
>> The round table will be held in a multi-stakeholder environment in which
>> speakers/participants who took part of the various main sessions and
>> workshops bring their perspectives in a concrete manner to feed the TSWF
>> session and propose ways to advance the HR discussion within the IGF.
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
> P.O. Box 17862
> Suva
> Fiji
>
> Twitter: @SalanietaT
> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
>


-- 
*
--------------------------------------------------------
Me Bertrand KABEMBELA *
*
*
*Avocat près la Cour d'Appel de Lubumbashi
*

*Tél : +243 998879260*

*Email : bertrandkabembela at yahoo.fr,  bertrand.kabembela at gmail.com*

-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From ias_pk at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 18 02:48:47 2012
From: ias_pk at yahoo.com (Imran Ahmed Shah)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 23:48:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [governance] Proposal: Human Rights Roundtable [Please express
 your views]
In-Reply-To: <CAEP5zKSK87csFNH=Xk_jzjoxxdziO8vFKV94uy=CeosFqCCphA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJwbTiCYH21jZ3N02+V4kHeJHCT4PNkGZWVG1-NmeHTv-NaiNA@mail.gmail.com> <CAEP5zKSK87csFNH=Xk_jzjoxxdziO8vFKV94uy=CeosFqCCphA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1350542927.17339.YahooMailNeo@web125106.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

+ 1
 
Imran


>________________________________
> From: Chaitanya Dhareshwar <chaitanyabd at gmail.com>
>To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> 
>Cc: Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> 
>Sent: Thursday, 18 October 2012, 11:31
>Subject: Re: [governance] Proposal: Human Rights Roundtable [Please express your views]
>  
>
>+1!
>
>
>On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 11:56 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>I agree Izumi. +1
>>
>>
>>What do others think. Please indicate. (+1 to show support) and (-1 to show that you don't support the Proposal). 
>>
>>
>>Kind Regards
>>
>>
>>On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:
>>
>>Dear list,
>>>
>>>APC has proposed this and I think IGC should support this.
>>>
>>>Comments welcome.
>>>
>>>izumi
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>From:  <alice at apc.org>
>>>Date: 2012/10/12
>>>Subject: [igf_members] Proposal: Human Rights Roundtable
>>>To: igf_members at intgovforum.org
>>>
>>>
>>>Dear Colleaques,
>>>
>>>We wish to submit this proposal for a Human Rights round Table.
>>>
>>>Apologies for submitting it a bit late, but hope you will consider it.
>>>
>>>Best regards
>>>Alice
>>>
>>>------------------------------
>>>
>>>HUMAN RIGHTS ROUNDTABLE
>>>IGF 2012
>>>
>>>Background
>>>
>>>During the IGF MAG meeting held in May 2012 in Geneva, several ways to
>>>develop the cross-cutting issues (human rights and development) were
>>>proposed. Particularly,  the group in charge of structuring the Taking
>>>Stock and the Way Forward session suggested that the second part of the
>>>session includes feedback from the cross-cutting
>>>
>>>themes which could be developed through round tables. It was supported by
>>>other MAG members (see transcripts MAG meeting 17 May)[1].
>>>
>>>Additionally, it is important to mention as a background element, that
>>>approximately 40 workshop proposals for the 2012 Internet Governance Forum
>>>make specific reference to human rights related issues, including privacy,
>>>freedom of expression, data rights, cyber security, and internet
>>>intermediary liability.
>>>
>>>Consumer rights are a growing area of interest, including the need for
>>>transparency, regulatory oversight, and mechanisms for addressing consumer
>>>complaints.  Data ownership and privacy are major issues in this area.
>>>
>>>Human rights in relation to security is a major theme for the IGF,
>>>including cybercrime, and the tension between privacy and security. There
>>>are several proposed workshops on the protection of children and youth, as
>>>well as practical workshops on surveillance and data protection.
>>>
>>>Developing best practices and legal frameworks is discussed in many of the
>>>workshop proposals, particularly in light of increasing restrictions on
>>>freedom of expression, and new liabilities for internet intermediaries.
>>>
>>>Multi-stakeholderism is a cross-cutting theme in the workshop proposals,
>>>particularly with respect to determining best practices and frameworks.
>>>
>>>Based on it, Kenya, in partnership with APC, Finland and Sweden, would
>>>lik