[governance] Google's Fight the ITU/WCIT website

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Sir, when responding to any discussion, it is important to consider motivations that people have when making points, in order to address any points that are made.

My sole point here has been that civil society organizations should not use propaganda as a substitute for reasoned argument, for example in the original email that I addressed, commenting on an anti wcit campaign by google, which chose to attack google's business practices rather than directly address any point that google had raised.

--srs (htc one x)


----- Reply message -----
From: "Michael Kende" <Michael.Kende at analysysmason.com>
To: "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>, "Suresh Ramasubramanian" <suresh at hserus.net>, "Riaz K Tayob" <riaz.tayob at gmail.com>, "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
Cc: "Andrea Glorioso (andrea at digitalpolicy.it)" <andrea at digitalpolicy.it>
Subject: [governance] Google's Fight the ITU/WCIT website
Date: Fri, Nov 23, 2012 2:38 AM


I just opened my email, and this is the first email that I read in this string and I have to say that when you read this last one first, it is not only fairly shocking, but almost impossible to imagine how we got here and why this needed to be said (frankly these days I tend to take it for granted that people have a distaste for all things Nazi, and as the son of a holocaust survivor, I know enough about the history).  Sadly, reading the string from the bottom to the top is not much more illuminating as to how we got here.  From my point of view, being relatively new to this list, a small group have begun to focus too much on why someone is saying something, rather than simply addressing what they are saying, and this quickly leads to ad hominem attacks and these types of diversions.  Speaking at least for myself, and not knowing any of the participants except through this list, this is not very illuminating for those of us who are here to learn about Internet governance rather than why a particular participant is taking a particular position.   

Michael

PS Andrea if this does not post, can I take you up on your kind offer to post this for me?

-----Original Message-----
From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Suresh Ramasubramanian
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 5:51 PM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Riaz K Tayob
Subject: Re: [governance] Google's Fight the ITU/WCIT website

For the record - I share the distaste Riaz expresses for hitler, the nazi party and its policies.

As a student of history and political science, I still find the conditions behind their rise to power - widespread dissatisfaction and public anger, petty demagoguery, easy identification of hate groups rather than an attempt to reach out and be inclusive .. fascinating. Especially given that these were all the ingredients for their total destruction after world war II

Riaz K Tayob [22/11/12 18:43 +0200]:
>Sala
>
>For the record:
>
>1. I have no objection to Suresh's post (that is without any 
>endorsement of Nazi's or Mein Kampf that brought the world, jews, gays 
>and other minorities untold suffering; just as I do not endorse all the 
>views of the articles I post) as an individual. I would hasten to add 
>that from a third world perspective (and avoiding moral
>relativism) while the Nazi's are unquotable a whole lot of other 
>colonial genocidiers (like John Steuart Mill etc) are held to be 
>politely quotable... a double standard that removes the functionality 
>of the ideas, throwing out the baby with the bathwater... (and lest I 
>be misconstrued as it is so easy when the word Nazi is mentioned - I 
>unequivocally denounce the actions of the Nazi's and the suffering 
>imposed on particularly the Jews in the industrial scale slaughter; and 
>that we all need to guard against especially as the crisis brings the 
>rising right wing tendency to full fore in Europe).
>
>2. Issues related to the tenor and content of the list are a 
>collective, and ought to take individual views into account, and hence 
>in moderator/s hands, so I am happy to defer should the 
>moderator/collective make such a decision.
>
>Riaz (personal)
>
>
>
>
>
>On 2012/11/22 06:02 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote:
>>Dear Suresh,
>>
>>Please refrain from using words like "Nazi" on this list. Dialogue on 
>>any of the Internet Governance issues and topics. This discussion has 
>>escalated off the relevant issues. Any more warnings and I will remove 
>>you from the list. Let this serve as a reminder to all to keep the 
>>discussions on Internet Governance issues.
>>
>>
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Salaniet
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