[governance] Google's Fight the ITU/WCIT website
michael gurstein
gurstein at gmail.com
Wed Nov 21 11:47:11 EST 2012
FWIW, it is probably good to point out that Riaz` original comments on
Parminder`s post were meant ironically (and supportively.
Which suggests Internet Communicativity Rule #2* Irony doesn`t translate
well on the (multilingual/multicultural) Internet.
*Internet Communicativity Rule #1, there are no Communicativity Rules on the
Internet.Whatever you say in whatever language will always be misinterpreted
by someone somewhere. :) (including this message, see rule #2.
Best,
M
From: sama.digitalpolicy at gmail.com [mailto:sama.digitalpolicy at gmail.com] On
Behalf Of Andrea Glorioso
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 7:07 AM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
Subject: Re: [governance] Google's Fight the ITU/WCIT website
I do not often intervene in this mailing list, although I follow it with
great attention.
But I must say that independently from any substantive opinion one might
have on Google, the ITU, WCIT or anything else, I find the tone of recent
emails concerning the mental state and/or other personal characteristics of
people extremely distasteful and very unhelpful to foster dialogue, which I
thought was one of the main objectives of the the multi-stakeholder model.
Civil society's main strength lies in its diversity. In my view such
diversity should be nurtured. I never believed in fake notions of
"consensus", nor am I shy to express my or the European Commission's
disagreement when need be; but one can do so, even quite strongly, focusing
on the substance rather than other elements.
Best,
Andrea
On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 3:25 PM, Sivasubramanian M <isolatedn at gmail.com>
wrote:
On Nov 21, 2012 2:10 PM, "Suresh Ramasubramanian" <suresh at hserus.net> wrote:
>
> I fail to see how google selling email, collaboration etc services to
> telcos has anything to do with the free and open internet here.
>
> Remember something - even if google sells something to the telcos, the
> users are the telco's users, and the law that's followed will be the law
of
> whichever country those users are in, and the telco does business in.
>
> And as for asking whether parminder is crazy .. well, I will confess that
I
> don't quite have to ask myself that question at all.
That is too emphatic an assertion. I would not agree with the idea that
Parminder is crazy. Parminder is sane, intelligent, calculative and his
responses to any thing said or done for the good of the Internet is
strategically constructed, sometimes incoherently, this again with a
calculated purpose.
It requires a person of Parminder's distorted intelligence to come with a
response to something so good as Google's campaign to preserve the free and
open Internet.
His strategy: "Don't find fault with the ideas expressed in the Google
campaign (because you can't). Find fault with Google (it is easier, and
definitely distracts attention away from the arguments presented to the
arguer, Google)". This is 'argumentum ad hominem'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
Parminder is quite intelligent, but his liver, brain and heart are
contaminated by a misplaced passion for the ITU.
Sivasubramanian M.
>
> Riaz K Tayob [21/11/12 09:54 +0200]:
>
>> Are you crazy Parminder?
>>
>> Rule no. 1 The "free market" is always right
>>
>> Rule no. 2 If not, consult rule number 1.
>>
>> Rule no. 3 If you feel let down by rule no. 1 consult rule no. 2
>>
>> Apologies if this seems self-referential... but that is how it IS
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2012/11/21 09:49 AM, parminder wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From Google's sign-on campaign
>>>
>>> "A free and open world depends on a free and open
>>> Internet. Governments alone, working behind closed doors,
>>> should not direct its future. The billions of people
>>> around the globe who use the Internet should have a voice."
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.google.com/takeaction/?utm_source=google
<https://www.google.com/takeaction/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=email&utm_c
ampaign=112012freeandopen#make-your-voice-heard>
&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=112012freeandopen#make-your-voice-heard
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Google; Yes, the world indeed needs an open Internet, for which
reason it is rather awful to note that you, meaning, Google;
>>>
>>> 1) Sold the entire net neutrality campaign down the drain in the US, by
first assuming its leadership and then entering into a self-serving
agreement with Verizon, whereby the main means of accessing the Internet in
the future - mobiles - are exempted from net neutrality provisions.
>>>
>>> 2) Have recently entered into exclusive arrangements with telecos to
provide Gmail, Google + and Google Search for free in some developing
countries (Philippines) , and as a special low cost package exclusively of a
few Internet services (and not the full, public Internet) in others (India),
which makes a mockery of an open and net neutral Internet.
>>>
>>> 3) Tweak your search results, which is increasingly the main way of
accessing locations on the Internet, in non-transparent ways, with
increasing evidence that this is done in a manner that merely serves your
own commercial interests and goes against consumer/ public interest, and for
which reasons Google is currently subject to regulatory investigations in
the US and EU.
>>>
>>> ( There are hundreds of other outrages, big and small, including the
fact that today I suddenly see my default browser getting set for "Chrome'
when I prefer and have always used Mozilla Firefox and never asked for the
change of default.)
>>>
>>> I cannot see anything other than effective regulation of the Internet to
be able to check such excesses by Internet companies that are deeply
compromising the openness of the Internet (sticking here to only to the
subject of openness of the Internet, used in above appeal by Google).
>>>
>>> So, lets be honest, it is not about people versus ITU, not even, Google
versus ITU, or even Google versus content regulation; it is Google versus
any regulation of the Internet space so that Google, and similarly
positioned dominant players, can have a free run over the economic, social
and political resources of the world.
>>>
>>> It is very important to wage the needed struggles to keep Internet's
content free from undue statist controls. But one needs to be careful about
whom one chooses as partners, nay, leaders of the campaign. Remember, the
lessons from the net neutrality campaign in the US which was sold cheap by
those who assumed its leadership. Also, have no doubt whatsoever that ACTAs
and PIPAs will come back in new forms, accommodating the interests of the
big Internet companies that led the opposition in the first round. (Anyone
wanting to take a bet on this! :) ) And. when the second round happens,
since 'our leaders' would have crossed over, there wouldnt be much fight
left to give.
>>>
>>> For sure, make opportunistic, tactical, alliances, but civil society
needs to be careful not to abandon leadership of public interest causes to
players who cannot but become turncoat and, well, betray, - sooner or later
getting into bed with whoever is economically and politically powerful
around to help their business prosper. Such is the structural logic of big
business. Let them stick to what they do best - organise productive forces
of the world. Leave public interest causes to public interest players -
civil society and governments. However, if the sentiment is simply
overflowing, maybe just donate some money to such causes, in an arms- lenght
/hands-off approach vis a vis managing the precise activities involved. I
simply dont fancy corporate-led 'public interest' campaigns.
>>>
>>> One was stuck by the number of Google organised panels at the Baku IGF,
where they openly took part and gave their policy pitch. As a participant
from Pakistan said at a workshop ' I find a Google representative at every
panel that I am at'. Such brash presence at policy forums and taking strong
policy positions by corporates is a relatively new game, and to my mind not
a welcome thing for our democracies. I keep hoping that civil society would
give this phenomenon a deeper thought and analysis, rather than just riding
the bandwagon.
>>>
>>> parminder
>>>
>>> On Wednesday 21 November 2012 04:47 AM, Fouad Bajwa wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Just saw Google's Fight the ITU/WCIT website
>>>>
>>>> https://www.google.com/intl/en/takeaction/
>>>> https://www.google.com/intl/fr/takeaction/
>>>> https://www.google.com/intl/es/takeaction/
>>>> https://www.google.com/intl/ar/takeaction/
>>>> https://www.google.com/intl/zh-CN/takeaction/
>>>> https://www.google.com/intl/pt-BR/takeaction/
>>>> https://www.google.com/intl/ru/takeaction/
>>>>
>>>> (thanks to a colleague for sharing!)
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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>
>
>
>
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--
--
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in mind.
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