[governance] URGENT- meeting with the Indian minister

Tue Nov 6 00:20:15 EST 2012

Alejandro

I know the CIRP proposal well, and know which part speaks of CIR oversight
role and which parts are about other things. So, I cannot say that CIRP
had nothing to do with the oversight role. I said that is not its big
focus as is made out to be, especially by those who would not want to
discuss the larger public policy issues part (code word - OECD's CCICP).

I would characterize CIRP as 5/6th other things (larger Internet related
public policy issues) and just 1/6th about CIR oversight. This would also
be clear on reading the CIRP doc as well as joint IBSA statements on
enhanced cooperation that were made previous to making the CIRP proposal.
However, people want to read and focus on what they want to read and focus
on and not much be done about it.

As for this great 'surprise' about parminder having said "maybe the
oversight part should not be included" and requests for clarification/
ratification, following facts may be (re) illuminating...

1. On the panel at CSTD discussion on enhanced cooperation in May 2012, I
made an clear, explicit proposal that CIRP be modified and the oversight
function  be moved elsewhere (no doubt in urgent need of changeover from
US current over-lord-ship, however, it should be dealt by a different
mechanism) . The statement is here, and has been shared with this list on
a number of occasions. The proposal was specifically noted by the US
delegation from the floor, and this fact has also been mentioned here on
the list. Not only have I shared this proposal here but tried to initiate
discussions a number of times on a possible alternative mechanism to deal
with the oversight issue, but in any case to remove it from CIRP's role. I
have discussed my proposal in this regard with Indian officials on a few
occasions, with some sympathetic nods.

2. My statement in the above regard also came from a campaign that we did
just before the May meeting on enhanced cooperation, along with 4 other
organisations and supported by more that 65 organisations and many more
individuals (I know I need to keep mentioning this over and over again). A
joint statement was issued, which suggests separation between the needed
mechanism for the oversight issues, and other broader public policy
issues. If all those organisations and individuals who supported this
campaign were able to come to Baku and speak up, it will be a much bigger
meeting that yesterday's meeting on enhanced cooperation, and, as you may
suspect, we would have heard very different things. But these
organisations and people obviously do not have the support and resources
to come, perhaps because they do not say the 'right things'. A new kind of
civil society mediated 'manufactured consent' may be being created here. I
was surprised (though, well, not that surprised) about the number of 'we
have a kind of consensus in the room' kind of statements being made by
moderators and others at the meeting. (Will write more about yesterday's
meeting later but let me remain focussed on the main issue here.)

3. BTW, in any case, CIRP is  an Indian government's proposal and not IT
for Change's. At all earlier occasions when IT for Change has demanded a
CIRP like body we havent got explicit about the specific roles, which we
though need to be discussed and developed. We specifically say, lets first
start with something exactly like OECD's CICCP.  However, I do understand
that when India had to make a specific proposal it needed to do so with
much more specificity than what a civil society position paper can afford
to do. And in this regard, since 'oversight issue' indeed has been one
that developing countires have been united about the need to do something
about for many years now, India had to place the oversight role somewhere
in its proposal. Also to mention again, the functions that India did
propose for CIRP all came from 3 of the four models suggested by the WGIG,
which went through considerable multistakehoder discussion at that time.
However, as they said in the statement, they were eager to hear other
people's views on this, and so if anyone thinks oversight should not be
here, tell them where it should be (no, not with the US gov) rather than
ridicule everything a 'oh so impertinent' developing country may say.

 parminder

> Chaitanya,
>
> the most interesting aspect of this meeting with the Indian Minister for
> IT will be to see if there remains any endorsement for CIRP after today's
> meeting on enhanced cooperation, particularly any official endorsement
> from the Indian Government. When will trustworthy notes from that meeting
> be released? What representation of the official position of the
> government of India is authoritative? (Parminder, your complaint that
> governments are not well coordinated would be most pertinent here, if I
> understood/recall it well.)
>
> Parminder, could you ratify/clarify a statement you made at the end, just
> because the microphones were turned off? I heard you say "maybe the
> oversight part should not be included". This - for those not present - was
> after Parminder said that the CIRP proposal does not affect any existing
> Internet Governance mechanisms, and Bill Drake read text (which was also
> readable in the rolling transcript) proving that it does, and does more,
> like propose CIRP to perform arbitration and other functions.
>
> Yours,
>
> Alejandro Pisanty
>
>
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> ________________________________
> Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
> [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Chaitanya Dhareshwar
> [chaitanyabd at gmail.com]
> Enviado el: domingo, 04 de noviembre de 2012 22:45
> Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro
> CC: parminder at itforchange.net
> Asunto: Re: [governance] URGENT- meeting with the Indian minister
>
> +1 Great stuff Parminder! I'm assuming there will be some sort of
> summary/minutes of the meeting so the rest of us have an idea of what the
> good minister's plans are for the future.
>
> -C
>
> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 1:17 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro
> <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com<mailto:salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> This is excellent Parminder and a great opportunity to engage in dialogue.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Sala
>
> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 8:31 AM,
> <parminder at itforchange.net<mailto:parminder at itforchange.net>> wrote:
>
>
> Dear All
>
> The Indian minister for IT will like to meet civil members tomorrow
> morning at 930 AM at the Park Hyatt Hotel, here in Baku.
>
> I know this is pretty late to inform you about it but \i have personally
> invited almost all civil society guys who are already at Baku for the
> bestbits meeting. However, there may be others who may have reached Baku
> and be interested to meet the minister, in which case please do consider
> yourself invited, in case you can make it to Park Hyatt by 930 AM.
>
> parminder
>
>
>
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