From suresh at hserus.net  Fri Nov 30 16:59:36 2012
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2012 03:29:36 +0530
Subject: [governance] Another conflict of interest at ICANN : SAD !!
In-Reply-To: <CA+EjHYrv-bXJKCT=RapNvPPBEHrCkX8c9uXThkN4JSRwTQ=-AA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E1TeT0m-0007C1-OE@frodo.hserus.net> <CA+EjHYrv-bXJKCT=RapNvPPBEHrCkX8c9uXThkN4JSRwTQ=-AA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CF60E920-A12A-44F9-B385-CB084E6321E5@hserus.net>

Eh, looks like there is very broad consensus across various African stakeholders on the .africa ccTLD.  That it doesn't match one single player's wishes is ..well, regrettable.

The WCIT discussion is on a rather broader level than this one.

--srs (iPad)

On 30-Nov-2012, at 22:16, "Louis Pouzin (well)" <pouzin at well.com> wrote:

> Yeah. Smacks of Google vs. ITU.
> 
> How about peace & love with .africa and .afrique ?
> 
> Good luck. Louis.
> - - -
> 
> On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 5:00 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net> wrote:
>> It is invective and innuendo laden as usual
>> 
>> --srs (htc one x)
>> 
>> ----- Reply message -----
>> From: "McTim" <dogwallah at gmail.com>
>> To: <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>, "Martin McOsieno" <otsienomartin at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: [governance] Another conflict of interest at ICANN : SAD !!
>> Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2012 9:26 PM
>> 
>> On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 9:37 AM, Martin McOsieno
>> <otsienomartin at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > Here are some interesting insights on a new conflict of interest case at
>> > ICANN:
>> >
>> > http://domainnewsafrica.com/the-plot-thickens-as-icann-and-africa-both-loose-africa/
>> 
>> This piece, which is clearly written by a supporter of on of the bids,
>> repeats conflict of interest charges that have no substance.
>> 
>> As someone who has watched this competition for many years, the
>> charges that "yesterdays appointment of Pierre Dandjinou who has
>> openly campaigned against DotConnectAfrica’s bid for .africa and even lost an ALAC Board seat in 2010 due to history of COI  further
>> complicates the matters in Africa’s position."
>> 
>> are absolutely false.
>> 
>> PD has never "openly campaigned" against either bid, nor will he play a part in evaluating either bid.
>> 
>> There is no evidence that the DCA campaign against him for the ALAC
>> Board seat led to the selection of another candidate.
>> 
>> DCA has committed itself to a "slash n burn" media strategy that
>> ultimately, IMHO, has damaged their credibility in the ICANN
>> community.
>> 
>> > http://www.circleid.com/posts/20121127_africa_vs_africa_gac_early_warnings_on_new_gtld_applications/
>> 
>> I see no conflict of interest here, only competition, just as what is
>> occurring with many other new gTLD applications.
>> 
>> Can you identify an actual conflict of interest in either story?
>> 
>> -- 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> McTim
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From suresh at hserus.net  Fri Nov 30 17:11:31 2012
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2012 03:41:31 +0530
Subject: [governance] =?US-ASCII?Q?http=3A//www=2Ereuters=2Ecom/articl?=
 =?US-ASCII?Q?e/2012/11/27/net-us-un-internet-idUSBRE8AQ06320121127?=
In-Reply-To: <01c401cdcf1f$d5910800$80b31800$@gmail.com>
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Message-ID: <F8F35953-7181-4E2C-A342-81803014BA95@hserus.net>

The you was a generic you,  not you as in Mike Gurstein.

Hegemony was Milton and then the China Daily (was that the same newspaper that did a photo feature on Kim Jong Un to congratulate him for being nominated as the sexiest man alive by the onion?).  Then plurilateral is a parminderism.

The global management and governance part is a double edged sword when governments have a monopoly on the process, as will inevitably happen when ITU gets to be in the saddle. 

Sure, we got done woth why consistency is important, in the one root server infrastructure discussion, but centralization of power has lnown pitfalls.  Geopolitics will play an overarching role, and something now as widely accepted as Amadeu abril y abril's .cat .. allocated after a long and passionately committed campaign across civil society and other groups in Catalonia .. would never have seen the light of day.

--srs (iPad)

On 30-Nov-2012, at 22:56, "michael gurstein" <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:

> Cool…
>  
> (Suresh, you also must have me mixed up with someone else… I just did a quick check and the only time that the interesting terminology of "hegemony" has been used on this list in the recent past (as far back as my Outlook search would go--was by Milton in a somewhat barbed jibe at some comments that were made I believe by a third party although his comments were directed at me.  As for " plurilteralism", I'm presuming that you mean "plurilateralism".. again my handy search engine couldn't find any use of term at all on this list by anyone…
>  
> Suresh,  As a matter of fact, I think those below are both interesting examples of cases where some form of global management/governance is required--the question is how to get there, where to do this and who gets to be involved in the decision making processes at various stages in the process… I'll leave both of those specific areas to folks with the appropriate expertise and interest--both as proponents and as critics/advocates and of course that is where a workable multistakeholder structure within a legitimized global decision making framework (or frameworks) comes into play.
>  
> Alejandro, I have immense respect for the folks who built the Internet (one of the most -- perhaps the most -- significant technical achievements in modern times) and whose intellectual and technical skills and determination maintain it in its current form.  However, the very success of the Internet --it's becoming a (and very soon "the") fundamental platform for life in the 21st century--has meant that it no longer (can or should) belong to those who created it or even those who (technically) sustain it… It is too important for everyone globally for that position to prevail.  So, IMHO we are presented with a huge huge challenge--that unfortunately current campaigns like "Hands off the Internet" don't do much to help resolve… That challenge is to find a way that we all globally, can allow the Internet to fulfill the possibilities for all of us that it presents (and in ways that are meaningful to all of us in our global diversity) -- and that means finding a way to reconcile sometimes extremely divergent interests and perspectives concerning for example, what issues are important/necessary to resolve and where they can be resolved and who/how should be involved in resolving them.
>  
> I don't have answers to those questions but I'm hoping that once the current smoke/fog clears that reasonable folks will set about dealing with them.
>  
> Best,
>  
> M  
>  
> From: Suresh Ramasubramanian [mailto:suresh at hserus.net] 
> Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 8:20 AM
> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; michael gurstein
> Cc: <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>; Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch
> Subject: Re: [governance] http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/27/net-us-un-internet-idUSBRE8AQ06320121127
>  
> You tell me which of the two international organisations .. ITU or Interpol .. is going to be a better bet for, say cybercrime
>  
> Both under the Vienna convention, so ..
>  
> And then say an issue with the .tw ccTLD.  After a previous history of chicanery that took away taiwan's IDD code 866. left it without one for several years, got a new (reserved) one. 886,allocated, and later quietly changed to being listed as belonging to Taiwan, China.
>  
> http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2010/10/05/2003484569/1
>  
> Now, if that sort of accident starts happening to say .tw, or to the asn of some Taiwanese ISP ..
> 
> You are welcome to rail against US hegemony, "plurilteralism" (what a mouthful!) or whatever, but believe it or not, they have a long way to go, even with countries on their OFAC blacklist like Cuba and Syria, before this sort of mendacious accident happens to say .cu
>  
> ;; ANSWER SECTION:
> cu.                     3600    IN      NS      ns2.ceniai.net.cu.
> cu.                     3600    IN      NS      rip.psg.com.
> cu.                     3600    IN      NS      ns.ceniai.net.cu.
> cu.                     3600    IN      NS      cu.cctld.authdns.ripe.net.
> cu.                     3600    IN      NS      ns2.gip.net.
> cu.                     3600    IN      NS      ns.dns.br.
>  
> Or .sy, which has at least one authoritative ns still around and served by ripe, for all that the el Assad government decided to take their country off the net altogether.
>  
> --srs (iPad)
> 
> On 30-Nov-2012, at 21:30, "michael gurstein" <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Huh? I'm curious what you see as a "massive ad hominem attack"… that I see the simultaneous, dare I say somewhat hypocritical blustering against Internet regulation and governance alongside a quite reasonable recognition that some governance and regulation is required; and then pointing out that reasonable people can disagree on what the nature of the issues being governed and regulated might be (and the appropriate venue as to where that governance/regulation might take place);  and then rather humbly (I would say) suggesting that perhaps rather than mobilizing the millions in a crusade against what might seem to be paper tigers/windmills, perhaps some of the same resources might go into figuring a rather more globally equitable way of determining which of those governance/regulatory issues should be addressed and in what venue(s) is somehow a personal attack on anyone rather escapes me… but maybe you have me mixed up with someone else in the demon pool…
>  
> M
>  
> From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch
> Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 7:18 AM
> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Riaz K Tayob
> Subject: RE: [governance] http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/27/net-us-un-internet-idUSBRE8AQ06320121127
>  
> Michael (Gurstein),
>  
> I am really stunned by the turn your latest messages have taken. It would seem that you have directed a massive ad-hominem argument (attack?) on a large group of people who not only don't get paid but actually sacrifice better paid jobs and put their own day jobs on the line - sometimes also pay out of pocket and don't get a lot of love at home - for the promotion and, when needed, defense of values of the Internet. 
>  
> Many - I tend to include myself in this list - have a very clear approach to the situations when their views and action coincide with those of corporations, governments, and even non-commercial organizations whose views and funding do not align in other issue areas. 
>  
> To your statement about supporting or not "regulation." Maybe it is useful to go back to the WGIG's list of issues and find out if among the 40 or so there is something missing that has become important today. You'll see there a variety of levels of "regulation" and/or of governmental intervention, both happening now and desirable or denounced as undesirable. 
>  
> People like McTim and Suresh have expressed themselves over the years about many of these, with expertise and knowledge. Your pass at them seems totally ungrounded. Unless you actually meant someone else and meant to exclude them from your sweeping statement. 
>  
> Riaz, same applies, IMO.
>  
> Yours,
>  
> Alejandro Pisanty
>  
>   
> ! !! !!! !!!!
> NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO
>  
> 
> +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
> 
> +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO
> 
> SMS +525541444475 
>      Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
> UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
> 
> Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
> Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  . 
> 
> Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Riaz K Tayob [riaz.tayob at gmail.com]
> Enviado el: viernes, 30 de noviembre de 2012 06:37
> Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> Asunto: Re: [governance] http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/27/net-us-un-internet-idUSBRE8AQ06320121127
> 
> Michael
> 
> The function of arguing against regulation and then making "piece meal" adjustments as "necessary" (which is a commodious term) is not as innocuous as it seems. From the 3 prong list earlier in this thread, there is a clear "position" (as stated) and "interest" (the reason, purpose, etc) and this is how the "game" is played.
> 
> It is not innocuous because this frames the debate in the "free markets are better" mold. Now the global financial crisis was facilitated (if not caused) by this type of thinking - in a sector most susceptible to oversight... 
> 
> It is of course a different matter, when those who argue for "hands off" and then "hands on" (exceptionally or otherwise), if one seeks to be in two places at once. But with a battalion of corporate funded ideogogues backing this view up, I guess it passes some sort of muster.... Perhaps people are playing the "game", but perhaps not...
> 
> Riaz
> 
> On 2012/11/28 09:31 PM, michael gurstein wrote:
> McTim, it seems to me that you (and others) argue long and hard against management/regulation of the Internet except (as in this case) when you don't.
>  
> And then having accepted the (obvious) need for some sort of management/regulation of at least certain aspects of the Internet why you (etc.) should expect that others (the rest of the world for example) should accept your definition of what those "exceptions" should be and where they should (or rather should not) be adjudicated leaves me a bit puzzled.
>  
> M
>  
> From: McTim [mailto:dogwallah at gmail.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 10:30 AM
> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; michael gurstein
> Cc: Suresh Ramasubramanian; Ian Peter; Ginger Paque
> Subject: Re: [governance] http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/27/net-us-un-internet-idUSBRE8AQ06320121127
>  
>  
> 
> On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 12:53 PM, michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:
> No question, Suresh (and McTim) but you/they can't have it both ways i.e. vehemently denouncing regulation/governance ("keep your hand off the Internet") etc.etc. on the one hand and then practicing it (if only implicitly) on the other. 
>  
> I'm only trying to have it one way.   I feel gov'ts have far too much control over what we say and do online.  I don't want an intergovernmental body setting global Internet policy.
>  
>  
> I would have thought, if the option is in fact #2 (or #3) as of course, any rational actor would I believe have to accept; that if one doesn't like a particular venue -- what does one suggest as an appropriate (globally acceptable) alternative venue(s)--particularly since the current (default) position seems to be seen as unacceptably self-serving by so many.
>  
>  
> Accepting #2 which as I have said before is the current status quo does not mean that one accepts the need for further global Internet Governance mechanisms.
>  
> I do not find #3 acceptable.
>  
> I've been singing the same song for years, what is it that you don't understand about my position?
>  
> -- 
> Cheers,
> 
> McTim
> "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel
>  
> ____________________________________________________________
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From jcurran at istaff.org  Fri Nov 30 17:15:23 2012
From: jcurran at istaff.org (John Curran)
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 17:15:23 -0500
Subject: [governance] =?US-ASCII?Q?http=3A//www=2Ereuters=2Ecom/articl?=
 =?US-ASCII?Q?e/2012/11/27/net-us-un-internet-idUSBRE8AQ06320121127?=
In-Reply-To: <01c401cdcf1f$d5910800$80b31800$@gmail.com>
References: <E1TdVom-0005aN-Uh@frodo.hserus.net> <0b3b01cdcd04$dae6bb50$90b431f0$@gmail.com> <AC8C76B2-29F2-4CE4-9381-34C39A037A89@hserus.net> <0ddd01cdcd91$4f368ee0$eda3aca0$@gmail.com> <CACAaNxjMFzaKo9VwoiHmG2Wy49gR5Nrk3PdOwBVzcSxwBHbmDQ@mail.gmail.com> <0e6e01cdcd9e$f6ac3460$e4049d20$@gmail.com> <50B8A89E.1090500@gmail.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D5DB7409F@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> <013501cdcf13$d7c320b0$87496210$@gmail.com> <B8D470E7-A696-4FCE-95AB-87F1546F0BB4@hserus.net> <01c401cdcf1f$d5910800$80b31800$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2124C4C7-D8E3-4FA6-B2F2-1250566D9946@istaff.org>

On Nov 30, 2012, at 12:26 PM, michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:

> That challenge is to find a way that we all globally, can allow the Internet to fulfill the possibilities for all of us that it presents (and in ways that are meaningful to all of us in our global diversity) -- and that means finding a way to reconcile sometimes extremely divergent interests and perspectives concerning for example, what issues are important/necessary to resolve and where they can be resolved and who/how should be involved in resolving them.

Agreed.

The challenge is that the Internet is truly a global system, and we lack good mechanisms
for development of true agreement on public policy issues when applied to a global scope.
There are some feedback loops which operate reasonable well in the context of a single 
country. (For example, the response of consumers, and civil society on their behalf, to 
"bad" decisions by businesses with respect to privacy results in lots of attention, and
sometimes even results changes to the errant business practices.)

In an ideal world, there would be a way to encourage productive discussion of the various
public policy principles that should be applicable to Internet communications on a global
scope, and such discussions would multistakeholder in nature, open in participation, and 
transparent in the processes used to reach outcomes (there is a little bit of a challenge in 
accomplishing such, since making the final determinations of what is appropriate public 
policy is one of areas that has been considered the realm of governments, and yet we are
collectively unsure if that model continues to work in our new highly connected world)
  
If we could produce clear statements of public policy principles, and the statements were 
made known to existing Internet governance institutions, then they would quite likely be 
considered in development of the various technical standards and policies that we need 
to keep the Internet running.  Likewise, if folks working on such standards and policies 
took significant measures to keep governments and civil society aware of the ongoing 
developments, it would help in avoiding conflicts between Internet practices and the 
globally accepted principles in any given public policy area.

/John

p.s.  Disclaimers apply.  My views alone.  Use of this email may trigger visions and/or
produce delusions, paranoia, and schizophrenia-like symptoms.  Use sparingly and 
seek appropriate medical treatment as needed.


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From suresh at hserus.net  Fri Nov 30 17:15:31 2012
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2012 03:45:31 +0530
Subject: [governance] =?US-ASCII?Q?http=3A//www=2Ereuters=2Ecom/articl?=
 =?US-ASCII?Q?e/2012/11/27/net-us-un-internet-idUSBRE8AQ06320121127?=
In-Reply-To: <CACAaNxjoPSq5pM4B8b0Bw+Eye45F+0iTQ0F_Nxk9fnHx1Ha1cQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E1TdVom-0005aN-Uh@frodo.hserus.net> <0b3b01cdcd04$dae6bb50$90b431f0$@gmail.com> <AC8C76B2-29F2-4CE4-9381-34C39A037A89@hserus.net> <0ddd01cdcd91$4f368ee0$eda3aca0$@gmail.com> <CACAaNxjMFzaKo9VwoiHmG2Wy49gR5Nrk3PdOwBVzcSxwBHbmDQ@mail.gmail.com> <0e6e01cdcd9e$f6ac3460$e4049d20$@gmail.com> <50B8A89E.1090500@gmail.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D5DB7409F@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> <013501cdcf13$d7c320b0$87496210$@gmail.com> <B8D470E7-A696-4FCE-95AB-87F1546F0BB4@hserus.net> <01c401cdcf1f$d5910800$80b31800$@gmail.com> <CACAaNxhuiBUB-wu3WHtXjec-JxNpBoXaer3QgM3xLRY3TD=vSg@mail.gmail.com> <027201cdcf34$4438baf0$ccaa30d0$@gmail.com> <CACAaNxjoPSq5pM4B8b0Bw+Eye45F+0iTQ0F_Nxk9fnHx1Ha1cQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0C12874C-DB00-4FD1-B153-A2F05F900FC7@hserus.net>

The police officers and the judge who facilitate the arrest have been subject to administrative punishment and transferred out of their current postings.  And the Indian government has substantially tightened enforcement of the act, though without amending the act itself (for which there is currently a public interest litigation being raised in the Supreme Court by a 21 year old law student, of course one whose mother is a Supreme Court lawyer herself)

--srs (iPad)

On 01-Dec-2012, at 1:32, McTim <dogwallah at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 2:52 PM, michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> (And just to say I do believe that in something like the UDHR we have a
>> bedrock of shared values (and ways of identifying clearly aberrant
>> behaviour) on which the normative framework necessary for building the
>> decision making framework(s) can (and should) be built.)
> 
> 
> Given the rampant daily floutings of the UDHR by governments around
> the world (Syria yesterday, India arresting people for "liking" on FB
> the day before, etc, do you really think that the UDHR is a "bedrock".
> 
> I wish it was, but i don't see that it is presently!
> 
> -- 
> Cheers,
> 
> McTim
> "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A
> route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel

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From suresh at hserus.net  Fri Nov 30 17:18:59 2012
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2012 03:48:59 +0530
Subject: [governance] =?US-ASCII?Q?http=3A//www=2Ereuters=2Ecom/articl?=
 =?US-ASCII?Q?e/2012/11/27/net-us-un-internet-idUSBRE8AQ06320121127?=
In-Reply-To: <2124C4C7-D8E3-4FA6-B2F2-1250566D9946@istaff.org>
References: <E1TdVom-0005aN-Uh@frodo.hserus.net> <0b3b01cdcd04$dae6bb50$90b431f0$@gmail.com> <AC8C76B2-29F2-4CE4-9381-34C39A037A89@hserus.net> <0ddd01cdcd91$4f368ee0$eda3aca0$@gmail.com> <CACAaNxjMFzaKo9VwoiHmG2Wy49gR5Nrk3PdOwBVzcSxwBHbmDQ@mail.gmail.com> <0e6e01cdcd9e$f6ac3460$e4049d20$@gmail.com> <50B8A89E.1090500@gmail.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D5DB7409F@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> <013501cdcf13$d7c320b0$87496210$@gmail.com> <B8D470E7-A696-4FCE-95AB-87F1546F0BB4@hserus.net> <01c401cdcf1f$d5910800$80b31800$@gmail.com> <2124C4C7-D8E3-4FA6-B2F2-1250566D9946@istaff.org>
Message-ID: <42A406A7-8258-46F9-9978-DF37AB35EF86@hserus.net>

This NPR piece is of interest,  Draws a parallel between Syria disconnecting itself from the Internet and WCIT submissions by some countries

http://www.npr.org/2012/11/29/166186762/widespread-internet-outages-reported-in-syria

--srs (iPad)

On 01-Dec-2012, at 3:45, John Curran <jcurran at istaff.org> wrote:

> On Nov 30, 2012, at 12:26 PM, michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> That challenge is to find a way that we all globally, can allow the Internet to fulfill the possibilities for all of us that it presents (and in ways that are meaningful to all of us in our global diversity) -- and that means finding a way to reconcile sometimes extremely divergent interests and perspectives concerning for example, what issues are important/necessary to resolve and where they can be resolved and who/how should be involved in resolving them.
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> The challenge is that the Internet is truly a global system, and we lack good mechanisms
> for development of true agreement on public policy issues when applied to a global scope.
> There are some feedback loops which operate reasonable well in the context of a single 
> country. (For example, the response of consumers, and civil society on their behalf, to 
> "bad" decisions by businesses with respect to privacy results in lots of attention, and
> sometimes even results changes to the errant business practices.)
> 
> In an ideal world, there would be a way to encourage productive discussion of the various
> public policy principles that should be applicable to Internet communications on a global
> scope, and such discussions would multistakeholder in nature, open in participation, and 
> transparent in the processes used to reach outcomes (there is a little bit of a challenge in 
> accomplishing such, since making the final determinations of what is appropriate public 
> policy is one of areas that has been considered the realm of governments, and yet we are
> collectively unsure if that model continues to work in our new highly connected world)
>   
> If we could produce clear statements of public policy principles, and the statements were 
> made known to existing Internet governance institutions, then they would quite likely be 
> considered in development of the various technical standards and policies that we need 
> to keep the Internet running.  Likewise, if folks working on such standards and policies 
> took significant measures to keep governments and civil society aware of the ongoing 
> developments, it would help in avoiding conflicts between Internet practices and the 
> globally accepted principles in any given public policy area.
> 
> /John
> 
> p.s.  Disclaimers apply.  My views alone.  Use of this email may trigger visions and/or
> produce delusions, paranoia, and schizophrenia-like symptoms.  Use sparingly and 
> seek appropriate medical treatment as needed.
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
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>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
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From rguerra at privaterra.org  Fri Nov 30 17:21:31 2012
From: rguerra at privaterra.org (Robert Guerra)
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 17:21:31 -0500
Subject: [governance] Brazilian Congress and lobbyists kill world first
 internet Bill of Rights
Message-ID: <3516858890910361147@unknownmsgid>

Brazilian Congress and lobbyists kill world first internet Bill of Rights |
UNCUT
http://uncut.indexoncensorship.org/2012/11/brazil-internet-marco-civil/
------------------------------

Digital

The Brazilian Congress’ lower house has killed a draft bill that would have
pioneered the world’s first “Internet Bill of
Rights<http://uncut.indexoncensorship.org/2012/09/brazil-marco-civil-internet>.”
Feted by free-speech
activists<http://www.article19.org/resources.php/resource/3389/en/brazil:-civil-rights-framework-for-the-internet>
and
negotiated over several years, the bill used a civil rights framework to
guarantee basic rights for internet
users<http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111004/04402516196/brazil-drafts-anti-acta-civil-rights-based-framework-internet.shtml>,
content
creators and online intermediaries — establishing that providers are not
responsible for user content.
[image: Marco Civil da Internet | Cultura Digital | CC: BY-NC-SA]

Marco Civil da Internet | Cultura Digital | CC: BY-NC-SA

The bill, known as Marco Civil da Internet <http://marcocivil.com.br/>, also
guaranteed net neutrality<http://topics.nytimes.com/topics/reference/timestopics/subjects/n/net_neutrality/index.html>
—
a move that angered the telecommunications industry as it would prevent
internet service providers (ISPs) from implementing a two-tier flow of
internet traffic. ISPs worldwide are keen to charge differentiated rates
for delivering digital content, this would enable the industry to charge
either content providers or consumers more for delivering some kinds of
internet traffic, such as movies.

A vote on the draft bill scheduled to take place in the Chamber of Deputies
on 20 November was postponed. It was the fifth time in the last two months
that a vote on Marco Civil was pushed back after legislators failed to
agree on the text. House Speaker Marco Maia has now removed Marco Civil
from the list of draft bills on Brazilian lawmakers’ agenda — meaning it
will not be bought back to the floor.

The main reason for Marco Civil’s failure was a lack of consensus on the
issue of net neutrality. Deputy Alessandro
Molon<https://twitter.com/alessandromolon>, who
sponsored the bill, says Brazil’s main telecommunication
companies<http://seekingalpha.com/article/276687-5-top-yielding-brazil-telecom-stocks>lobbied
hard against it, arguing it was contrary to the principles of the
free market.

Other elements of the bill also created controversy — copyright holders
were angered by the legal protections offered to internet intermediaries
who host or transmit content shared or created by third parties (companies
like Google and Facebook). The draft bill stated that such third party
content should only be deleted after a court order. Detractors say this
process should be faster and simpler, and providers should be able to
remove content after being merely notified by offended parties — an
argument seen by analysts and activists as a risk to free speech.

The companies’ case apparently influenced key members of Congress and made
it impossible to reach an agreement on Marco Civil’s final text. Although
industry lobbies were successful in watering
down<https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/11/brazilian-internet-bill-threatens-freedom-expression>
key
user protections, their legislative surrogates wanted to impose even
greater changes on the text.

After Marco Civil’s failure on Tuesday, Molon said it was up to society to
put pressure on deputies to push the draft bill to the floor. He was also
critical of big companies that had “their interests frustrated” by Marco
Civil.

Molon was supported by the countries President Dilma Rousseff and
Vice-President Michel Temer — president of PMDB Party, the main ally to
Rousseff’s Workers’ Party in Congress. Despite their respective parties
having a substantial legislative majority Rousseff’s and Temer’s support of
Marco Civil was rendered ineffectual after lawmakers — mainly from PMDB —
took issue with key elements.

The failure of Marco Civil was denounced by activists all around the
internet. The Pirate Party founder Rick Falkvinge called the episode a
“political fiasco” in which Brazil wasted a chance to gain world-wide
influence on free speech issues.

“[The Marco Civil obstruction] follows a ridiculous watering-down and
dumbing-down of the bill, at the request of obsolete industry lobbies.
Having been permanently shelved, this means that Brazil has practically
killed its chance of leapfrogging other nations’ economies”, said
Falkvinge<http://falkvinge.net/2012/11/21/brazil-squanders-chance-at-geopolitical-influence-kills-internet-rights-bill-in-political-fiasco>on
his website.

“Marco Civil could be an advance not only for Brazil, but for all
countries, on how to discuss law enforcement on the online world — and its
consequences”, said André Pase <https://twitter.com/andrepase>, Digital
Communication professor at PUC University in Porto Alegre.

“A legal framework could go beyond regular laws that get easily obsolete in
a context of innovation, where fresh, free online services are born all the
time.”

*Rafael Spuldar is a journalist based in São Paulo*
------------------------------

(via Instapaper <http://www.instapaper.com/>)


Sent from my iPhone
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From diegocanabarro at gmail.com  Fri Nov 30 17:32:48 2012
From: diegocanabarro at gmail.com (Diego Rafael Canabarro)
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 17:32:48 -0500
Subject: [governance] Brazilian Congress and lobbyists kill world first
 internet Bill of Rights
In-Reply-To: <3516858890910361147@unknownmsgid>
References: <3516858890910361147@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <CA+MV=uH7BB=jfwvNg4drmurr_Z5RtwWiB=hCnJ5ThjytZMbqxw@mail.gmail.com>

I wouldn't be so pessimist about the Bill of Law.
It is not dead yet. Just follow on twitter the hashtag #MARCOCIVIL to
follow the latest developments. We are facing a tough struggle in the
Country (I'm following it from abroad unfortunately), but we shall succeed.

On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 5:21 PM, Robert Guerra <rguerra at privaterra.org>wrote:

> Brazilian Congress and lobbyists kill world first internet Bill of Rights
> | UNCUT
> http://uncut.indexoncensorship.org/2012/11/brazil-internet-marco-civil/
> ------------------------------
>
> Digital
>
> The Brazilian Congress’ lower house has killed a draft bill that would
> have pioneered the world’s first “Internet Bill of Rights<http://uncut.indexoncensorship.org/2012/09/brazil-marco-civil-internet>.”
> Feted by free-speech activists<http://www.article19.org/resources.php/resource/3389/en/brazil:-civil-rights-framework-for-the-internet> and
> negotiated over several years, the bill used a civil rights framework to
> guarantee basic rights for internet users<http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111004/04402516196/brazil-drafts-anti-acta-civil-rights-based-framework-internet.shtml>, content
> creators and online intermediaries — establishing that providers are not
> responsible for user content.
> [image: Marco Civil da Internet | Cultura Digital | CC: BY-NC-SA]
>
> Marco Civil da Internet | Cultura Digital | CC: BY-NC-SA
>
> The bill, known as Marco Civil da Internet <http://marcocivil.com.br/>, also
> guaranteed net neutrality<http://topics.nytimes.com/topics/reference/timestopics/subjects/n/net_neutrality/index.html> —
> a move that angered the telecommunications industry as it would prevent
> internet service providers (ISPs) from implementing a two-tier flow of
> internet traffic. ISPs worldwide are keen to charge differentiated rates
> for delivering digital content, this would enable the industry to charge
> either content providers or consumers more for delivering some kinds of
> internet traffic, such as movies.
>
> A vote on the draft bill scheduled to take place in the Chamber of
> Deputies on 20 November was postponed. It was the fifth time in the last
> two months that a vote on Marco Civil was pushed back after legislators
> failed to agree on the text. House Speaker Marco Maia has now removed Marco
> Civil from the list of draft bills on Brazilian lawmakers’ agenda — meaning
> it will not be bought back to the floor.
>
> The main reason for Marco Civil’s failure was a lack of consensus on the
> issue of net neutrality. Deputy Alessandro Molon<https://twitter.com/alessandromolon>, who
> sponsored the bill, says Brazil’s main telecommunication companies<http://seekingalpha.com/article/276687-5-top-yielding-brazil-telecom-stocks>lobbied hard against it, arguing it was contrary to the principles of the
> free market.
>
> Other elements of the bill also created controversy — copyright holders
> were angered by the legal protections offered to internet intermediaries
> who host or transmit content shared or created by third parties (companies
> like Google and Facebook). The draft bill stated that such third party
> content should only be deleted after a court order. Detractors say this
> process should be faster and simpler, and providers should be able to
> remove content after being merely notified by offended parties — an
> argument seen by analysts and activists as a risk to free speech.
>
> The companies’ case apparently influenced key members of Congress and made
> it impossible to reach an agreement on Marco Civil’s final text. Although
> industry lobbies were successful in watering down<https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/11/brazilian-internet-bill-threatens-freedom-expression> key
> user protections, their legislative surrogates wanted to impose even
> greater changes on the text.
>
> After Marco Civil’s failure on Tuesday, Molon said it was up to society to
> put pressure on deputies to push the draft bill to the floor. He was also
> critical of big companies that had “their interests frustrated” by Marco
> Civil.
>
> Molon was supported by the countries President Dilma Rousseff and
> Vice-President Michel Temer — president of PMDB Party, the main ally to
> Rousseff’s Workers’ Party in Congress. Despite their respective parties
> having a substantial legislative majority Rousseff’s and Temer’s support of
> Marco Civil was rendered ineffectual after lawmakers — mainly from PMDB —
> took issue with key elements.
>
> The failure of Marco Civil was denounced by activists all around the
> internet. The Pirate Party founder Rick Falkvinge called the episode a
> “political fiasco” in which Brazil wasted a chance to gain world-wide
> influence on free speech issues.
>
> “[The Marco Civil obstruction] follows a ridiculous watering-down and
> dumbing-down of the bill, at the request of obsolete industry lobbies.
> Having been permanently shelved, this means that Brazil has practically
> killed its chance of leapfrogging other nations’ economies”, said
> Falkvinge<http://falkvinge.net/2012/11/21/brazil-squanders-chance-at-geopolitical-influence-kills-internet-rights-bill-in-political-fiasco>on his website.
>
> “Marco Civil could be an advance not only for Brazil, but for all
> countries, on how to discuss law enforcement on the online world — and its
> consequences”, said André Pase <https://twitter.com/andrepase>, Digital
> Communication professor at PUC University in Porto Alegre.
>
> “A legal framework could go beyond regular laws that get easily obsolete
> in a context of innovation, where fresh, free online services are born all
> the time.”
>
> *Rafael Spuldar is a journalist based in São Paulo*
>  ------------------------------
>
> (via Instapaper <http://www.instapaper.com/>)
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
Diego R. Canabarro
http://lattes.cnpq.br/4980585945314597

--
diego.canabarro [at] ufrgs.br
diego [at] pubpol.umass.edu
MSN: diegocanabarro [at] gmail.com
Skype: diegocanabarro
Cell # +55-51-9244-3425 (Brasil) / +1-413-362-0133 (USA)
--
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From gurstein at gmail.com  Fri Nov 30 20:01:53 2012
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 17:01:53 -0800
Subject: [governance] =?US-ASCII?Q?http=3A//www=2Ereuters=2Ecom/articl?=
 =?US-ASCII?Q?e/2012/11/27/net-us-un-internet-idUSBRE8AQ06320121127?=
In-Reply-To: <2124C4C7-D8E3-4FA6-B2F2-1250566D9946@istaff.org>
References: <E1TdVom-0005aN-Uh@frodo.hserus.net> <0b3b01cdcd04$dae6bb50$90b431f0$@gmail.com> <AC8C76B2-29F2-4CE4-9381-34C39A037A89@hserus.net> <0ddd01cdcd91$4f368ee0$eda3aca0$@gmail.com> <CACAaNxjMFzaKo9VwoiHmG2Wy49gR5Nrk3PdOwBVzcSxwBHbmDQ@mail.gmail.com> <0e6e01cdcd9e$f6ac3460$e4049d20$@gmail.com> <50B8A89E.1090500@gmail.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D5DB7409F@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> <013501cdcf13$d7c320b0$87496210$@gmail.com> <B8D470E7-A696-4FCE-95AB-87F1546F0BB4@hserus.net> <01c401cdcf1f$d5910800$80b31800$@gmail.com> <2124C4C7-D8E3-4FA6-B2F2-1250566D9946@istaff.org>
Message-ID: <038801cdcf5f$860771d0$92165570$@gmail.com>

+1

 

And I think the just released statement by the US delegation to WCIT
<http://www.ntia.doc.gov/blog/2012/necessity-inclusive-transparent-and-parti
cipatory-internet>  begins some significant movement in the direction of
those processes. 

 

Now how to capitalize on this and its general support for the "Best Bits
statement <http://bestbits.igf-online.net/statement/> " (which includes that
"Fundamental to the framing of public policy (for the Internet) must be the
pursuit of the public interest and fundamental human rights..."); perhaps
starting by revisiting the OECD Internet policy principles
<http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/40/21/48289796.pdf>  to resolve the areas of
CS concern which led to CS not signing onto the final OECD document
<http://csisac.org/CSISAC_PR_06292011.pdf> ; and also beginning a process of
becoming more globally inclusive in this development (as for example using
the IRP statement of Internet Rights  <http://irpcharter.org/campaign/> &
Principles which have a strong anchor in Human Rights/the UDHRD as a
conceptual/normative foundation).

 

Beginning with the above but then initiating a much broader and more
inclusive global norm-setting process as for example, through a reformed and
much more inclusive IGF (designed to be something other than a place to swap
business cards and chat) or towards an update of the WSIS declaration in
light of what has transpired in the last ten years or so.

 

M

 

From: John Curran [mailto:jcurran at istaff.org] 
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 2:15 PM
To: michael gurstein
Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
Subject: Re: [governance]
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/27/net-us-un-internet-idUSBRE8AQ06320
121127

 

On Nov 30, 2012, at 12:26 PM, michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:

 

That challenge is to find a way that we all globally, can allow the Internet
to fulfill the possibilities for all of us that it presents (and in ways
that are meaningful to all of us in our global diversity) -- and that means
finding a way to reconcile sometimes extremely divergent interests and
perspectives concerning for example, what issues are important/necessary to
resolve and where they can be resolved and who/how should be involved in
resolving them.

 

Agreed.

 

The challenge is that the Internet is truly a global system, and we lack
good mechanisms

for development of true agreement on public policy issues when applied to a
global scope.

There are some feedback loops which operate reasonable well in the context
of a single 

country. (For example, the response of consumers, and civil society on their
behalf, to 

"bad" decisions by businesses with respect to privacy results in lots of
attention, and

sometimes even results changes to the errant business practices.)

 

In an ideal world, there would be a way to encourage productive discussion
of the various

public policy principles that should be applicable to Internet
communications on a global

scope, and such discussions would multistakeholder in nature, open in
participation, and 

transparent in the processes used to reach outcomes (there is a little bit
of a challenge in 

accomplishing such, since making the final determinations of what is
appropriate public 

policy is one of areas that has been considered the realm of governments,
and yet we are

collectively unsure if that model continues to work in our new highly
connected world)

  

If we could produce clear statements of public policy principles, and the
statements were 

made known to existing Internet governance institutions, then they would
quite likely be 

considered in development of the various technical standards and policies
that we need 

to keep the Internet running.  Likewise, if folks working on such standards
and policies 

took significant measures to keep governments and civil society aware of the
ongoing 

developments, it would help in avoiding conflicts between Internet practices
and the 

globally accepted principles in any given public policy area.

 

/John

 

p.s.  Disclaimers apply.  My views alone.  Use of this email may trigger
visions and/or

produce delusions, paranoia, and schizophrenia-like symptoms.  Use sparingly
and 

seek appropriate medical treatment as needed.

 

 

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From suresh at hserus.net  Fri Nov 30 20:06:40 2012
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2012 06:36:40 +0530
Subject: [governance] =?US-ASCII?Q?http=3A//www=2Ereuters=2Ecom/articl?=
 =?US-ASCII?Q?e/2012/11/27/net-us-un-internet-idUSBRE8AQ06320121127?=
In-Reply-To: <038801cdcf5f$860771d0$92165570$@gmail.com>
References: <E1TdVom-0005aN-Uh@frodo.hserus.net> <0b3b01cdcd04$dae6bb50$90b431f0$@gmail.com> <AC8C76B2-29F2-4CE4-9381-34C39A037A89@hserus.net> <0ddd01cdcd91$4f368ee0$eda3aca0$@gmail.com> <CACAaNxjMFzaKo9VwoiHmG2Wy49gR5Nrk3PdOwBVzcSxwBHbmDQ@mail.gmail.com> <0e6e01cdcd9e$f6ac3460$e4049d20$@gmail.com> <50B8A89E.1090500@gmail.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D5DB7409F@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> <013501cdcf13$d7c320b0$87496210$@gmail.com> <B8D470E7-A696-4FCE-95AB-87F1546F0BB4@hserus.net> <01c401cdcf1f$d5910800$80b31800$@gmail.com> <2124C4C7-D8E3-4FA6-B2F2-1250566D9946@istaff.org> <038801cdcf5f$860771d0$92165570$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DF5BFA21-1EAC-43C3-9A3E-FA1333C85D26@hserus.net>

The OECD actually makes for a more sensible choice for cs to support and endorse, given their willingness to listen across stakeholder groups.

--srs (iPad)

On 01-Dec-2012, at 6:31, "michael gurstein" <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:

> +1
>  
> And I think the just released statement by the US delegation to WCIT begins some significant movement in the direction of those processes…
>  
> Now how to capitalize on this and its general support for the "Best Bits statement" (which includes that "Fundamental to the framing of public policy (for the Internet) must be the pursuit of the public interest and fundamental human rights..."); perhaps starting by revisiting the OECD Internet policy principles to resolve the areas of CS concern which led to CS not signing onto the final OECD document; and also beginning a process of becoming more globally inclusive in this development (as for example using the IRP statement of Internet Rights & Principles which have a strong anchor in Human Rights/the UDHRD as a conceptual/normative foundation).
>  
> Beginning with the above but then initiating a much broader and more inclusive global norm-setting process as for example, through a reformed and much more inclusive IGF (designed to be something other than a place to swap business cards and chat) or towards an update of the WSIS declaration in light of what has transpired in the last ten years or so…
>  
> M
>  
> From: John Curran [mailto:jcurran at istaff.org] 
> Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 2:15 PM
> To: michael gurstein
> Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> Subject: Re: [governance] http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/27/net-us-un-internet-idUSBRE8AQ06320121127
>  
> On Nov 30, 2012, at 12:26 PM, michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:
>  
> 
> That challenge is to find a way that we all globally, can allow the Internet to fulfill the possibilities for all of us that it presents (and in ways that are meaningful to all of us in our global diversity) -- and that means finding a way to reconcile sometimes extremely divergent interests and perspectives concerning for example, what issues are important/necessary to resolve and where they can be resolved and who/how should be involved in resolving them.
>  
> Agreed.
>  
> The challenge is that the Internet is truly a global system, and we lack good mechanisms
> for development of true agreement on public policy issues when applied to a global scope.
> There are some feedback loops which operate reasonable well in the context of a single 
> country. (For example, the response of consumers, and civil society on their behalf, to 
> "bad" decisions by businesses with respect to privacy results in lots of attention, and
> sometimes even results changes to the errant business practices.)
>  
> In an ideal world, there would be a way to encourage productive discussion of the various
> public policy principles that should be applicable to Internet communications on a global
> scope, and such discussions would multistakeholder in nature, open in participation, and 
> transparent in the processes used to reach outcomes (there is a little bit of a challenge in 
> accomplishing such, since making the final determinations of what is appropriate public 
> policy is one of areas that has been considered the realm of governments, and yet we are
> collectively unsure if that model continues to work in our new highly connected world)
>   
> If we could produce clear statements of public policy principles, and the statements were 
> made known to existing Internet governance institutions, then they would quite likely be 
> considered in development of the various technical standards and policies that we need 
> to keep the Internet running.  Likewise, if folks working on such standards and policies 
> took significant measures to keep governments and civil society aware of the ongoing 
> developments, it would help in avoiding conflicts between Internet practices and the 
> globally accepted principles in any given public policy area.
>  
> /John
>  
> p.s.  Disclaimers apply.  My views alone.  Use of this email may trigger visions and/or
> produce delusions, paranoia, and schizophrenia-like symptoms.  Use sparingly and 
> seek appropriate medical treatment as needed.
>  
>  
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
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From lmcknigh at syr.edu  Fri Nov 30 21:16:48 2012
From: lmcknigh at syr.edu (Lee W McKnight)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2012 02:16:48 +0000
Subject: [governance] =?US-ASCII?Q?http=3A//www=2Ereuters=2Ecom/articl?=
 =?US-ASCII?Q?e/2012/11/27/net-us-un-internet-idUSBRE8AQ06320121127?=
In-Reply-To: <038801cdcf5f$860771d0$92165570$@gmail.com>
References: <E1TdVom-0005aN-Uh@frodo.hserus.net>
 <0b3b01cdcd04$dae6bb50$90b431f0$@gmail.com>
 <AC8C76B2-29F2-4CE4-9381-34C39A037A89@hserus.net>
 <0ddd01cdcd91$4f368ee0$eda3aca0$@gmail.com>
 <CACAaNxjMFzaKo9VwoiHmG2Wy49gR5Nrk3PdOwBVzcSxwBHbmDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <0e6e01cdcd9e$f6ac3460$e4049d20$@gmail.com> <50B8A89E.1090500@gmail.com>
 <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D5DB7409F@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local>
 <013501cdcf13$d7c320b0$87496210$@gmail.com>
 <B8D470E7-A696-4FCE-95AB-87F1546F0BB4@hserus.net>
 <01c401cdcf1f$d5910800$80b31800$@gmail.com>
 <2124C4C7-D8E3-4FA6-B2F2-1250566D9946@istaff.org>,<038801cdcf5f$860771d0$92165570$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B16E5F5@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu>

I agree, reading tea leaves, it is notable the US statement pointed to 'Best Bits' and IGF.

Re Internet Rights and Principles, fyi I am folding the 10 into the WiGiT v0.2 Open Specs to be released next week at an industry event in Orlando, even as the governments hang in Dubai.
Meaning we will - sort of - have gotten Wall Street and tech industry CIOs more or less accepting IRP without even knowing it, since they'll likely have not read carefully that part of our fine print.  ; ) Of course it's all iterative drafts so significance is unclear. But it is better if mobile cloud to edge services come with rights and principles, than not, right.

I'll share pointers to at least some of those docs next week.

Lee
________________________________
From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] on behalf of michael gurstein [gurstein at gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 8:01 PM
To: 'John Curran'
Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
Subject: RE: [governance] http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/27/net-us-un-internet-idUSBRE8AQ06320121127

+1

And I think the just released statement by the US delegation to WCIT<http://www.ntia.doc.gov/blog/2012/necessity-inclusive-transparent-and-participatory-internet> begins some significant movement in the direction of those processes…

Now how to capitalize on this and its general support for the "Best Bits statement<http://bestbits.igf-online.net/statement/>" (which includes that "Fundamental to the framing of public policy (for the Internet) must be the pursuit of the public interest and fundamental human rights..."); perhaps starting by revisiting the OECD Internet policy principles<http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/40/21/48289796.pdf> to resolve the areas of CS concern which led to CS not signing onto the final OECD document<http://csisac.org/CSISAC_PR_06292011.pdf>; and also beginning a process of becoming more globally inclusive in this development (as for example using the IRP statement of Internet Rights & Principles<http://irpcharter.org/campaign/> which have a strong anchor in Human Rights/the UDHRD as a conceptual/normative foundation).

Beginning with the above but then initiating a much broader and more inclusive global norm-setting process as for example, through a reformed and much more inclusive IGF (designed to be something other than a place to swap business cards and chat) or towards an update of the WSIS declaration in light of what has transpired in the last ten years or so…

M

From: John Curran [mailto:jcurran at istaff.org]
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 2:15 PM
To: michael gurstein
Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
Subject: Re: [governance] http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/27/net-us-un-internet-idUSBRE8AQ06320121127

On Nov 30, 2012, at 12:26 PM, michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com<mailto:gurstein at gmail.com>> wrote:

That challenge is to find a way that we all globally, can allow the Internet to fulfill the possibilities for all of us that it presents (and in ways that are meaningful to all of us in our global diversity) -- and that means finding a way to reconcile sometimes extremely divergent interests and perspectives concerning for example, what issues are important/necessary to resolve and where they can be resolved and who/how should be involved in resolving them.

Agreed.

The challenge is that the Internet is truly a global system, and we lack good mechanisms
for development of true agreement on public policy issues when applied to a global scope.
There are some feedback loops which operate reasonable well in the context of a single
country. (For example, the response of consumers, and civil society on their behalf, to
"bad" decisions by businesses with respect to privacy results in lots of attention, and
sometimes even results changes to the errant business practices.)

In an ideal world, there would be a way to encourage productive discussion of the various
public policy principles that should be applicable to Internet communications on a global
scope, and such discussions would multistakeholder in nature, open in participation, and
transparent in the processes used to reach outcomes (there is a little bit of a challenge in
accomplishing such, since making the final determinations of what is appropriate public
policy is one of areas that has been considered the realm of governments, and yet we are
collectively unsure if that model continues to work in our new highly connected world)

If we could produce clear statements of public policy principles, and the statements were
made known to existing Internet governance institutions, then they would quite likely be
considered in development of the various technical standards and policies that we need
to keep the Internet running.  Likewise, if folks working on such standards and policies
took significant measures to keep governments and civil society aware of the ongoing
developments, it would help in avoiding conflicts between Internet practices and the
globally accepted principles in any given public policy area.

/John

p.s.  Disclaimers apply.  My views alone.  Use of this email may trigger visions and/or
produce delusions, paranoia, and schizophrenia-like symptoms.  Use sparingly and
seek appropriate medical treatment as needed.


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From chaitanyabd at gmail.com  Thu Nov  1 04:09:29 2012
From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 13:39:29 +0530
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <E32D2C05-5152-4329-968E-5D1F2ED54287@privaterra.org>
References: <6htvq562u9xwndojpff6tjwa.1351715549740@email.android.com>
	<1351717131.30525.YahooMailNeo@web120102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<CACTo+v8pGfPPAPGyryUm_rd0zTkRx4OzhT0ZTNLi2h2Kh+=pxw@mail.gmail.com>
	<77843C2D-FF1E-4FF7-BA2C-5199F3622B4E@privaterra.org>
	<CAJwbTiBvqYdhV9QRAtMxTVssmBezD_Li5wVvAKHVXWCRpm2mmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1351723363.30961.YahooMailNeo@web160506.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<CA+YNoKjSLcC-OYZt_hsxfXzYP+N1hbRYy_0cCZLBRjV5rVh1Vg@mail.gmail.com>
	<E32D2C05-5152-4329-968E-5D1F2ED54287@privaterra.org>
Message-ID: <CAEP5zKTo05ugzpSpBk=v8T8rEr5av-GOyGdGbiEQwGcQ8VCVuQ@mail.gmail.com>

Izumi had broadcast her request here - a fair few people responded saying
Carlos was a good choice.  -

------
ref:
Izumi AIZU iza at anr.org
via<http://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer.py?hl=en&ctx=mail&answer=1311182>
lists.igcaucus.org
Oct 2
to governance

Dear list,

We need to select Civil Society speakers for the Baku Main session,
I think one for the opening and another for the closing session.

Please send your suggestions and nominations asap.

izumi


-------
People who responded positively for Carlos include
Hartmut Richard Glaser
Graciela Selaimen
Graciela Selaimen
Deirdre Williams
Valeria Betancourt
Valeria Betancourt
Ginger Paque

-C
On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 8:25 AM, Robert Guerra <rguerra at privaterra.org>wrote:

> Let's be clear,  I don't have an issue with the people that were selected.
> Just the process, or lack of one,  that was used.
>
> Suggest we focus on a way to develop a far more transparent and in
> dependant process next time
>
> Robert
>
>
> --
> R. Guerra
> Phone/Cell: +1 202-905-2081
> Twitter: twitter.com/netfreedom
> Email: rguerra at privaterra.org
>
> On 2012-10-31, at 9:30 PM, Izumi AIZU wrote:
>
> > It is in part my fault for not wrapping up the discussion quickly, to
> > select the speakers
> > and liaise to the Secretariat. So sorry about this delay.
> >
> > I guess IGF Secretariat chose one from IGC members and another one from
> non-IGC.
> >
> > They had indicated that the speaker does not have to be IGC member per
> se.
> >
> > IGC is not the sole representative of the Civil Society for IGF.
> >
> > Yet I believe Valentina will also  be an excellent speaker, especially
> from
> > Central/East Europe.
> >
> >
> > izumi
> >
> >
> >
> > 2012/11/1 shaila mistry <shailam at yahoo.com>:
> >> me too :)
> >>
> >> The journey begins sooner than you anticipate !
> >> ..................... the renaissance of composure !
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <
> salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com>
> >>
> >> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Robert Guerra <
> rguerra at privaterra.org>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 3:40 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
> >>
> >> yes it took me by surprise as well Mawaki. :O
> >>
> >> Sala
> >>
> >> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:29 AM, Robert Guerra <rguerra at privaterra.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> To be honest, in my opinion, the process to select speakers for the main
> >> opening session has seemed ad-hoc at best.
> >>
> >> Would have expected a far more deliberate process along the lines that
> the
> >> caucus reviews, recommends and nominates persons for the MAG.
> >>
> >> Robert
> >> --
> >> R. Guerra
> >> Phone/Cell: +1 202-905-2081
> >> Twitter: twitter.com/netfreedom
> >> Email: rguerra at privaterra.org
> >>
> >> On 2012-10-31, at 6:09 PM, Mawaki Chango wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> ... Still, I'm not sure I understand the process that got us
> >>> nominating people and end up with a name that was never mentioned here
> >>> (this is nothing personal). Were there other CS groups that had been
> >>> running the same nomination process? Is this at the discretion of the
> >>> Secretariat? And what happens now to the idea of collectively prepared
> >>> discourse or talking points, and to Milton's good start on that?
> >>>
> >>> Just asking.
> >>>
> >>> mawaki
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 8:58 PM, Nnenna <nne75 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I think Carlos and Valentina make a great pair.
> >>>>
> >>>> Cheers
> >>>>
> >>>> N
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Nnenna  Nwakanma |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG  |  Consultants
> >>>> Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development
> >>>> Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471 |Mob. 07416820
> >>>> Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065|
> http://www.nnenna.org
> >>>> nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 |
> nnennaorg.blogspot.com
> >>>>
> >>>> ________________________________
> >>>> From: Carlos A. Afonso <ca at cafonso.ca>
> >>>> To: william.drake at uzh.ch; glaser at cgi.br
> >>>> Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 8:32 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re: Re: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
> >>>>
> >>>> :)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Carlos A. Afonso
> >>>>
> >>>> William Drake <william.drake at uzh.ch> escreveu:
> >>>> My apologies to Carlos, I cut and paste from someone else's email
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Oct 31, 2012, at 8:05 PM, Hartmut Richard Glaser wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Correct name is => Carlos Alberto Afonso ...
> >>>>
> >>>> ==========================================
> >>>> On 31/10/12 17:04, William Drake wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi
> >>>>
> >>>> The secretariat has invited Carlos Alfonso for the opening session and
> >>>> Valentina Pellizzer for the closing session.
> >>>>
> >>>> Bill
> >>>>
> >>>> On Oct 31, 2012, at 10:37 AM, Izumi AIZU wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Dear list,
> >>>>
> >>>> Sorry for not following this up earlier. Just too many things to do.
> >>>>
> >>>> Though I said we may run a poll, I guess Carlos is already our de
> facto
> >>>> speaker,
> >>>> and Nnnena seems to have received good support and fulfills the gender
> >>>> balance
> >>>> and also from developing region.
> >>>>
> >>>> And as Ginger rightly suggested both speakers will take up the talking
> >>>> points
> >>>> into their text, with some degree of, of course, their own words to be
> >>>> added.
> >>>>
> >>>> May I ask you if this is our rough consensus?
> >>>>
> >>>> Many thanks,
> >>>>
> >>>> izumi
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> 2012/10/11 William Drake <william.drake at uzh.ch>:
> >>>>
> >>>> it's what they're sending registrants
> >>>>
> >>>> On Oct 11, 2012, at 8:42 AM, Katy P wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> What? When did this happen?
> >>>>
> >>>> On Oct 11, 2012 8:24 AM, "William Drake" <william.drake at uzh.ch>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> In light of the host country's jaw dropping decision to publicly
> >>>> disseminate all participants' passport numbers, I hope whoever we have
> >>>> speaking in the opening an closing will emphasize the centrality of
> >>>> personal
> >>>> privacy protection in Internet governance.
> >>>>
> >>>> Best
> >>>>
> >>>> Bill
> >>>>
> >>>> On Oct 10, 2012, at 5:10 AM, Nnenna wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> +1 On each of the points below.  I am currently in the Côte d'Ivoire
> >>>> Internet Governance Forum and my drafting capacity is limited.
>  However,
> >>>> I
> >>>> would like to see a line that extends "Multistakeholderism" down to
> >>>> active
> >>>> national participation of all stakeholders. AFAIK, in as much as in
> some
> >>>> countries, the government is weighing in, in ways that may appear
> >>>> overbearing, in others, the decision-makers are actually note
> interested
> >>>> or
> >>>> think it is an NGO thing.
> >>>>
> >>>> Can we have a "Development Agenda" paragraph? I am also thinking that
> >>>> "Participation" may also need to be a paragraph of its own
> >>>>
> >>>> Best
> >>>>
> >>>> Nnenna
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Nnenna  Nwakanma |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG
> >>>> |  Consultants
> >>>> Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development
> >>>> Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471 |Mob. 07416820
> >>>> Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065|
> http://www.nnenna.org/
> >>>> nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 |
> nnennaorg.blogspot.com
> >>>>
> >>>> ________________________________
> >>>> From: Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu>
> >>>> To: 'Ginger Paque' <ginger at paque.net>; "governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> "
> >>>> <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 9:07 PM
> >>>> Subject: RE: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> From: gpaque at gmail.com [mailto:gpaque at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Ginger
> >>>> Paque
> >>>>
> >>>> I think that both points are important... I would say 'in addition to'
> >>>> not
> >>>> 'rather than'. Whom we choose sends a signal as sometimes as
> significant
> >>>> as
> >>>> their words, and we tend to know their general positions as well as
> >>>> speaking
> >>>> abilities when we nominate them.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ginger and colleagues:
> >>>> Yes, of course it is "in addition to" not "rather than" - but has
> there
> >>>> been any substantive discussion yet? Frankly I think what they say is
> >>>> more
> >>>> important than who we choose, but agree that in some cases "the
> medium is
> >>>> the message."  At any rate we are long on "who" and rather short on
> >>>> "what"
> >>>> at the moment, so…
> >>>>
> >>>> let me throw out three short statements on issues that I passionately
> >>>> believe should be addressed. In doing so, I will make an attempt to
> >>>> address
> >>>> them in a way that takes into account the differences among us and
> hope
> >>>> others do so in the same spirit. Other candidate topics would include
> >>>> IPR,
> >>>> development…I defer to others there.
> >>>>
> >>>> Human rights
> >>>> CS believes that the absence of gatekeepers and the open, global
> >>>> communication enabled by the Internet realizes the promise of Article
> 19
> >>>> of
> >>>> the UN UDHR. To erect (national) legal barriers to the free flow of
> >>>> information is a bad idea and contrary to the individual human right
> to
> >>>> freedom of expression. We therefore oppose efforts to create "national
> >>>> Internets," or to block and filter internet access in ways that deny
> >>>> individuals access to applications, content and services of their
> choice.
> >>>> All attempts to deem certain forms of communication and information
> >>>> illegal
> >>>> and remove them must follow established, transparent processes of law
> and
> >>>> should not involve prior restraint.
> >>>>
> >>>> Security and Securitization
> >>>> CS opposes efforts to militarize the Internet, or any actions that
> would
> >>>> foster a destructive and wasteful cyber arms race among governments
> >>>> and/or
> >>>> private actors. We consider the surreptitious use of exploits and
> malware
> >>>> for surveillance or attacks to be criminal regardless of whether they
> are
> >>>> deployed by governments, private corporations or organized criminals.
> We
> >>>> are
> >>>> skeptical of efforts to subordinate the design and use of information
> and
> >>>> communication technology to "national security" agendas. We believe
> that
> >>>> Internet security will be achieved primarily at the operational level
> and
> >>>> that national security and military agendas often work against rather
> >>>> than
> >>>> for users' security needs.
> >>>>
> >>>> Multistakeholderism
> >>>> Global governance institutions should not be restricted to states, so
> CS
> >>>> welcomes the additional participation in global policy making that
> >>>> multi-stakeholder processes provide. But CS cautions that
> >>>> multi-stakeholder
> >>>> participation is not an end in itself.  Opening up global governance
> >>>> institutions to additional voices from civil society and business does
> >>>> not
> >>>> by itself ensure that individual rights are adequately protected or
> that
> >>>> the
> >>>> best substantive policies are developed and enforced. In the informal
> >>>> spaces
> >>>> created by MS institutions, it is possible that powerful governmental
> and
> >>>> corporate actors can make deals contrary to the interests of Internet
> >>>> users.
> >>>> MS processes must incorporate and institutionalize concepts of due
> >>>> process,
> >>>> separation of powers and user's inalienable civil and political
> rights.
> >>>>
> >>>> Milton L. Mueller
> >>>> Professor, Syracuse University School of Information Studies
> >>>> Internet Governance Project
> >>>> http://blog.internetgovernance.org
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ____________________________________________________________
> >>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>>>  governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> >>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
> >>>>  http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >>>>
> >>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
> >>>>  http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> >>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >>>>  http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >>>>
> >>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ____________________________________________________________
> >>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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> >>>> --
> >>>>
> >>>> Izumi Aizu <<
> >>>>
> >>>>        Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
> >>>>
> >>>>         Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
> >>>>                                Japan
> >>>>                               * * * * *
> >>>>         << Writing the Future of the History >>
> >>>>                              www.anr.org
> >>>>
> >>>> ____________________________________________________________
> >>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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> >> ____________________________________________________________
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> >> --
> >> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
> >> P.O. Box 17862
> >> Suva
> >> Fiji
> >>
> >> Twitter: @SalanietaT
> >> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
> >> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >>
> >> ____________________________________________________________
> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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> >> ____________________________________________________________
> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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> >>
> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >>> Izumi Aizu <<
> >
> >          Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
> >
> >           Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
> >                                  Japan
> >                                 * * * * *
> >           << Writing the Future of the History >>
> >                                www.anr.org
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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> >     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >
> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>
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From chaitanyabd at gmail.com  Thu Nov  1 04:15:38 2012
From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 13:45:38 +0530
Subject: [governance] Fwd: IGF 2012 - Bilateral meeting
In-Reply-To: <CA+YNoKj5zX8SLoVYjV0zHX5Jew20R2fvg_WNGFgvE8hxAfHh0w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <F0E565BA8D19DF43BA6164890C258431043FAF@S-DC-ESTG04-B.net1.cec.eu.int>
	<2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3EC@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
	<CA+YNoKj5zX8SLoVYjV0zHX5Jew20R2fvg_WNGFgvE8hxAfHh0w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEP5zKSgbqVEBRcs-S9U=Utxhtx6_Vt54y_=07d4zrkAGBN56g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Izumi,

I'd love to attend this. Do advise on venue though as that is a primary
factor for me.

Thanks,
Chaitanya

On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:35 PM, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:

> Following the one in Nairobi last year, European commission and
> European Parliament
> people want to hold an informal meeting with civil society members and
> asked Wolfgang to coordinate.
>
> Since this is an informal meeting with limited space, we need to find and
> decide who will
> be there. Around  5 or 6 people, max.
>
> Time/Date/Venue are not confirmed, though.
>
> Please indicate if you like to attend. I will consult Sala and Worlgang to
> make
> the selection taking account regional, gender and other factors in balance.
>
> thanks,
>
> izumi
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
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From wolfgang.benedek at uni-graz.at  Thu Nov  1 05:40:22 2012
From: wolfgang.benedek at uni-graz.at (Benedek, Wolfgang (wolfgang.benedek@uni-graz.at))
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 10:40:22 +0100
Subject: [governance] Fwd: IGF 2012 - Bilateral meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAEP5zKSgbqVEBRcs-S9U=Utxhtx6_Vt54y_=07d4zrkAGBN56g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CCB801B9.25DDE%wolfgang.benedek@uni-graz.at>

I would be interested as well if there is still space. Maybe to represent some processes in IRP and CoE.

Wolfgang Benedek


Von: Chaitanya Dhareshwar <chaitanyabd at gmail.com<mailto:chaitanyabd at gmail.com>>
Antworten an: "governance at lists.igcaucus.org<mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>" <governance at lists.igcaucus.org<mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>>, Chaitanya Dhareshwar <chaitanyabd at gmail.com<mailto:chaitanyabd at gmail.com>>
Datum: Donnerstag, 01. November 2012 09:15
An: "governance at lists.igcaucus.org<mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>" <governance at lists.igcaucus.org<mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>>, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org<mailto:iza at anr.org>>
Betreff: Re: [governance] Fwd: IGF 2012 - Bilateral meeting

Hi Izumi,

I'd love to attend this. Do advise on venue though as that is a primary factor for me.

Thanks,
Chaitanya

On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:35 PM, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org<mailto:iza at anr.org>> wrote:
Following the one in Nairobi last year, European commission and European Parliament
people want to hold an informal meeting with civil society members and
asked Wolfgang to coordinate.

Since this is an informal meeting with limited space, we need to find and decide who will
be there. Around  5 or 6 people, max.

Time/Date/Venue are not confirmed, though.

Please indicate if you like to attend. I will consult Sala and Worlgang to make
the selection taking account regional, gender and other factors in balance.

thanks,

izumi



____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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From fouadbajwa at gmail.com  Thu Nov  1 06:11:17 2012
From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Bajwa)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 15:11:17 +0500
Subject: [governance] Fwd: IGF 2012 - Bilateral meeting
In-Reply-To: <CA+YNoKj5zX8SLoVYjV0zHX5Jew20R2fvg_WNGFgvE8hxAfHh0w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <F0E565BA8D19DF43BA6164890C258431043FAF@S-DC-ESTG04-B.net1.cec.eu.int>
	<2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3EC@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
	<CA+YNoKj5zX8SLoVYjV0zHX5Jew20R2fvg_WNGFgvE8hxAfHh0w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHuaJtOPZr7YkE43npAs=iNkMUh66v031Oo6Gc0rkBLk1mhmCA@mail.gmail.com>

You have me there.

Best

Fouad

On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:05 PM, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:

> Following the one in Nairobi last year, European commission and
> European Parliament
> people want to hold an informal meeting with civil society members and
> asked Wolfgang to coordinate.
>
> Since this is an informal meeting with limited space, we need to find and
> decide who will
> be there. Around  5 or 6 people, max.
>
> Time/Date/Venue are not confirmed, though.
>
> Please indicate if you like to attend. I will consult Sala and Worlgang to
> make
> the selection taking account regional, gender and other factors in balance.
>
> thanks,
>
> izumi
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
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From sana.pryhod at gmail.com  Thu Nov  1 06:12:15 2012
From: sana.pryhod at gmail.com (Oksana Prykhodko)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 12:12:15 +0200
Subject: [governance] Fwd: IGF 2012 - Bilateral meeting
In-Reply-To: <CCB801B9.25DDE%wolfgang.benedek@uni-graz.at>
References: <CAEP5zKSgbqVEBRcs-S9U=Utxhtx6_Vt54y_=07d4zrkAGBN56g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CCB801B9.25DDE%wolfgang.benedek@uni-graz.at>
Message-ID: <CA+C8XCKxTad7+OnegyXJX+RE-U8xKGEJ47dTdo8gaLu7niEkLw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I am extremely interested to participate.

Is it possible?

Best regards,
Oksana

2012/11/1 Benedek, Wolfgang (wolfgang.benedek at uni-graz.at)
<wolfgang.benedek at uni-graz.at>:
> I would be interested as well if there is still space. Maybe to represent
> some processes in IRP and CoE.
>
> Wolfgang Benedek
>
>
>
> Von: Chaitanya Dhareshwar <chaitanyabd at gmail.com>
> Antworten an: "governance at lists.igcaucus.org"
> <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>, Chaitanya Dhareshwar
> <chaitanyabd at gmail.com>
> Datum: Donnerstag, 01. November 2012 09:15
> An: "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>, Izumi
> AIZU <iza at anr.org>
> Betreff: Re: [governance] Fwd: IGF 2012 - Bilateral meeting
>
> Hi Izumi,
>
> I'd love to attend this. Do advise on venue though as that is a primary
> factor for me.
>
> Thanks,
> Chaitanya
>
> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:35 PM, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:
>>
>> Following the one in Nairobi last year, European commission and European
>> Parliament
>> people want to hold an informal meeting with civil society members and
>> asked Wolfgang to coordinate.
>>
>> Since this is an informal meeting with limited space, we need to find and
>> decide who will
>> be there. Around  5 or 6 people, max.
>>
>> Time/Date/Venue are not confirmed, though.
>>
>> Please indicate if you like to attend. I will consult Sala and Worlgang to
>> make
>> the selection taking account regional, gender and other factors in
>> balance.
>>
>> thanks,
>>
>> izumi
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
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>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>

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From chaitanyabd at gmail.com  Thu Nov  1 06:26:47 2012
From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 15:56:47 +0530
Subject: [governance] Fwd: IGF 2012 - Bilateral meeting
In-Reply-To: <CA+C8XCKxTad7+OnegyXJX+RE-U8xKGEJ47dTdo8gaLu7niEkLw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEP5zKSgbqVEBRcs-S9U=Utxhtx6_Vt54y_=07d4zrkAGBN56g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CCB801B9.25DDE%wolfgang.benedek@uni-graz.at>
	<CA+C8XCKxTad7+OnegyXJX+RE-U8xKGEJ47dTdo8gaLu7niEkLw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEP5zKTamsLADfWrpeyQ++=2ZmyJJ2cibTai8S4BAbOJZKK0cw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Izumi, I'm guessing we've got more than a full house and more will be
coming in. Do advise how you'll be picking participants (first come first
or random, etc) as you've noted a limit of 5-6 people... :)

-C

On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:42 PM, Oksana Prykhodko <sana.pryhod at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am extremely interested to participate.
>
> Is it possible?
>
> Best regards,
> Oksana
>
> 2012/11/1 Benedek, Wolfgang (wolfgang.benedek at uni-graz.at)
> <wolfgang.benedek at uni-graz.at>:
> > I would be interested as well if there is still space. Maybe to represent
> > some processes in IRP and CoE.
> >
> > Wolfgang Benedek
> >
> >
> >
> > Von: Chaitanya Dhareshwar <chaitanyabd at gmail.com>
> > Antworten an: "governance at lists.igcaucus.org"
> > <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>, Chaitanya Dhareshwar
> > <chaitanyabd at gmail.com>
> > Datum: Donnerstag, 01. November 2012 09:15
> > An: "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>,
> Izumi
> > AIZU <iza at anr.org>
> > Betreff: Re: [governance] Fwd: IGF 2012 - Bilateral meeting
> >
> > Hi Izumi,
> >
> > I'd love to attend this. Do advise on venue though as that is a primary
> > factor for me.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Chaitanya
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:35 PM, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Following the one in Nairobi last year, European commission and European
> >> Parliament
> >> people want to hold an informal meeting with civil society members and
> >> asked Wolfgang to coordinate.
> >>
> >> Since this is an informal meeting with limited space, we need to find
> and
> >> decide who will
> >> be there. Around  5 or 6 people, max.
> >>
> >> Time/Date/Venue are not confirmed, though.
> >>
> >> Please indicate if you like to attend. I will consult Sala and Worlgang
> to
> >> make
> >> the selection taking account regional, gender and other factors in
> >> balance.
> >>
> >> thanks,
> >>
> >> izumi
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ____________________________________________________________
> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> >> To be removed from the list, visit:
> >>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >>
> >> For all other list information and functions, see:
> >>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >>
> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >>
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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> > To be removed from the list, visit:
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> >
> > For all other list information and functions, see:
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From valeriab at apc.org  Thu Nov  1 10:59:44 2012
From: valeriab at apc.org (Valeria Betancourt)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 09:59:44 -0500
Subject: [governance] APC's priorities for IGF Baku
Message-ID: <35EDCC04-E90E-4DB3-AE28-4672D090DC7D@apc.org>

Dear all,

The document which highlights APC's priorities for the 2012 IGF is  
already available at https://www.apc.org/en/node/15652/

Your comments are welcome.

Valeria


-------------
Valeria Betancourt
Directora / Manager
Programa de Políticas de Information y Comunicación / Communication  
and Information Policy Programme
Asociación para el Progreso de las Comunicaciones / Association for
Progressive Communications, APC
http://www.apc.org





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From isolatedn at gmail.com  Thu Nov  1 11:04:42 2012
From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian M)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 20:34:42 +0530
Subject: [governance] Fwd: IGF 2012 - Bilateral meeting
In-Reply-To: <CA+YNoKj5zX8SLoVYjV0zHX5Jew20R2fvg_WNGFgvE8hxAfHh0w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <F0E565BA8D19DF43BA6164890C258431043FAF@S-DC-ESTG04-B.net1.cec.eu.int>
	<2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3EC@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
	<CA+YNoKj5zX8SLoVYjV0zHX5Jew20R2fvg_WNGFgvE8hxAfHh0w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHyAo0GnDrUVQah+2mwpmX56b=DVGe85dDZ6G1KUiN+vyDFWag@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Izumi,

I would like to under this meeting. Please include me as a CS participant
from India.

Thank you Sivasubramanian M

Sent from Turiya MID
http://turiya.co.in
On Oct 31, 2012 2:37 PM, "Izumi AIZU" <iza at anr.org> wrote:

> Following the one in Nairobi last year, European commission and
> European Parliament
> people want to hold an informal meeting with civil society members and
> asked Wolfgang to coordinate.
>
> Since this is an informal meeting with limited space, we need to find and
> decide who will
> be there. Around  5 or 6 people, max.
>
> Time/Date/Venue are not confirmed, though.
>
> Please indicate if you like to attend. I will consult Sala and Worlgang to
> make
> the selection taking account regional, gender and other factors in balance.
>
> thanks,
>
> izumi
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
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From riaz.tayob at gmail.com  Thu Nov  1 10:54:31 2012
From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob)
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2012 15:54:31 +0100
Subject: [governance] Cash-strapped European news websites ask governments
 to step in and force Google to pay for story links
Message-ID: <50928D27.8080802@gmail.com>

News <http://www.independent.co.uk/news/> > World 
<http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/> > Europe 
<http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/>


  Cash-strapped European news websites ask governments to step in and
  force Google to pay for story links


Lori Hinnant 
<http://www.independent.co.uk/search/simple.do?destinationSectionUniqueName=search&publicationName=ind&pageLength=5&startDay=1&startMonth=1&startYear=2010&useSectionFilter=true&useHideArticle=true&searchString=byline_text:%28%22Lori%20Hinnant%22%29&displaySearchString=Lori%20Hinnant> 


Thursday 01 November 2012


European news organisations bleeding money and readers are trying to 
avoid extinction by asking governments in France, Germany and Italy to 
step in and charge Google for links to stories the internet search giant 
has always used for free.

Critics --- including, unsurprisingly, Google --- say the strategy is 
shortsighted and self-destructive, and the search engine warns it will 
stop indexing European news sites if forced to pay for links. But 
publishers advocating a "Google tax" aimed at benefiting their industry 
point to the example of Brazil, where their counterparts abandoned the 
search engine and say repercussions have been minimal.

The dispute underscores a fundamental question facing media agencies 
around the world: Who should benefit from links to online content that 
is costly to produce and yet generates a fraction of the ad revenue that 
once allowed newspapers to flourish?

Europe has tried to sidestep Google before. Six years ago, then-French 
President Jacques Chirac unveiled plans for Quaero (Latin for "I 
search") as the answer to US dominance of the internet. The 
multi-platform search and operating system was supposed to work with 
desktop computers, mobile devices and even televisions.

Despite millions spent to develop Quaero, it went nowhere.

This week, implicit threats hovered over a meeting between current 
French President Francois Hollande and Eric Schmidt, Google's executive 
chairman.

Hollande demanded Google reach a deal with publishers over the copyright 
dispute and also address the French taxes it escapes by basing its 
European headquarters in Ireland. Google essentially reiterated a point 
it made in a recent letter to French publishers: Paris' latest attempt 
to impose itself would force readers to "Anglo-Saxon" sites based in 
countries with more favorable copyright laws, such as Britain and Ireland.

Google's post-meeting statement said the discussions dealt with "the 
contributions of the internet to job creation and the influence of 
French culture in the world."

Adding to the pressure on Google in France, a French newspaper reported 
yesterday that French authorities are threatening Google with a 1 
billion euro tax bill and investigating alleged financial wrongdoing.

Google France denied being notified of such a tax bill and said it will 
"continue to cooperate with the French authorities." Government 
spokeswoman Najat Vallaud-Belkacem wouldn't comment on the report in the 
weekly Canard Enchaine, except to say that if there were a tax probe, it 
would be covered by laws on fiscal secrecy.

French publishers, along with counterparts in Germany and Italy, are 
hoping Brazil will be the proof that there is a successful way to 
confront Google.

After failing to come to terms with Google in the past year, Brazil's 
biggest papers --- representing 90 per cent of circulation --- decided 
to boycott Google News by essentially making their content unavailable 
to anyone using the search engine. The result? Negligible losses in web 
traffic, the Brazilian papers say.

Brazilian newspapers haven't ruled out reopening talks with Google, if 
the company whose name is synonymous with "search" agrees to pay for 
their content. Unlike in Europe, the Brazilian publishers have not 
turned to their government to act as a mediator or impose a tax as part 
of their dealings with Google.

"Newspapers live off advertising revenues, like Google. They're our 
competition and they have billions and billions in revenues globally," 
said Ricardo Pedreira, executive director of Brazil's National 
Association of Newspapers.

Still, Pedreira is not convinced Brazil is a good model for European 
nations. "Every country has a specific reality, and I think there will 
probably evolve different models in each nation," he said.

Others in Brazil have warned about long-term consequences of the boycott.

Carlos Castilho, a media critic and TV journalist, writing on the press 
watchdog website Observatorio da Imprensa, argued that the boycott was a 
backward strategy, because "news is everywhere today and to surround it 
with walls of copyrights is like trying to dry ice."

/AP/

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From ms.narine.khachatryan at gmail.com  Thu Nov  1 14:00:57 2012
From: ms.narine.khachatryan at gmail.com (Narine Khachatryan)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 22:00:57 +0400
Subject: [governance] On the eve of IGF Azerbaijani parliament proposes to
 toughen legislation surrounding freedom of assembly
Message-ID: <CAPVtauneG1ha_=4XY1bOxWh0LShzL6uWoUp4nMUJ_HUQsTn9xQ@mail.gmail.com>

 *On the eve of IGF Azerbaijani parliament proposes to toughen legislation
surrounding freedom of assembly *

On Tuesday, October 23 Azerbaijani parliamentarians suggested to toughen
the legislation surrounding freedom of assembly in the country, Caucasus
Elections Watch wrote. (
http://electionswatch.org/2012/10/30/ahead-of-presidential-elections-in-2013-azerbaijani-government-proposes-to-toughen-legislation-on-public-protests/
). During a joint  session held by parliamentary committees for “Legal
Policy and State building”, and “Human Rights” parliamentarians expressed
their concerns that so-called “unauthorised actions”, which have been on
the rise in recent years in Azerbaijan,  have had a negative impact on
Azerbaijan’s international image. This trend, the  lawmakers say, is likely
 a result of the fact that the penalties are not a big enough deterrent for
protesters.The lawmakers suggested to increase the fines for participating
in unsanctioned mobilizations up  to 5000 and 8000 manat  (up to 7-9
thousand USD).  The proposed amendments to be sent to parliament for
further deliberation.

Opposition argues these amendments do not comply with country’s obligations
before Council of Europe and OSCE,  contradict the European Convention on
Human Rights and Freedoms, the OSCE Copenhagen Document, the Council of
Europe’s basic principles on freedom of expression and freedom of
association.  Read more…

http://electionswatch.org/2012/10/30/ahead-of-presidential-elections-in-2013-azerbaijani-government-proposes-to-toughen-legislation-on-public-protests/#more-961

Narine Khachatryan
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From kabani.asif at gmail.com  Thu Nov  1 14:04:46 2012
From: kabani.asif at gmail.com (Kabani)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 23:04:46 +0500
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <CAEP5zKTo05ugzpSpBk=v8T8rEr5av-GOyGdGbiEQwGcQ8VCVuQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6htvq562u9xwndojpff6tjwa.1351715549740@email.android.com>
 <1351717131.30525.YahooMailNeo@web120102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CACTo+v8pGfPPAPGyryUm_rd0zTkRx4OzhT0ZTNLi2h2Kh+=pxw@mail.gmail.com>
 <77843C2D-FF1E-4FF7-BA2C-5199F3622B4E@privaterra.org> <CAJwbTiBvqYdhV9QRAtMxTVssmBezD_Li5wVvAKHVXWCRpm2mmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1351723363.30961.YahooMailNeo@web160506.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <CA+YNoKjSLcC-OYZt_hsxfXzYP+N1hbRYy_0cCZLBRjV5rVh1Vg@mail.gmail.com>
 <E32D2C05-5152-4329-968E-5D1F2ED54287@privaterra.org> <CAEP5zKTo05ugzpSpBk=v8T8rEr5av-GOyGdGbiEQwGcQ8VCVuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOzvoR0jNwDYz7VrXSw9ox1ETOP2kjZHwdxQibH9Oso-v403Sw@mail.gmail.com>

+1

On 1 November 2012 13:09, Chaitanya Dhareshwar <chaitanyabd at gmail.com>wrote:

> Izumi had broadcast her request here - a fair few people responded saying
> Carlos was a good choice.  -
>
> ------
> ref:
> Izumi AIZU iza at anr.org via<http://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer.py?hl=en&ctx=mail&answer=1311182>
> lists.igcaucus.org
> Oct 2
>  to governance
>
> Dear list,
>
> We need to select Civil Society speakers for the Baku Main session,
> I think one for the opening and another for the closing session.
>
> Please send your suggestions and nominations asap.
>
> izumi
>
>
> -------
> People who responded positively for Carlos include
> Hartmut Richard Glaser
> Graciela Selaimen
> Graciela Selaimen
> Deirdre Williams
> Valeria Betancourt
> Valeria Betancourt
> Ginger Paque
>
> -C
> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 8:25 AM, Robert Guerra <rguerra at privaterra.org>wrote:
>
>> Let's be clear,  I don't have an issue with the people that were
>> selected. Just the process, or lack of one,  that was used.
>>
>> Suggest we focus on a way to develop a far more transparent and in
>> dependant process next time
>>
>> Robert
>>
>>
>> --
>> R. Guerra
>> Phone/Cell: +1 202-905-2081
>> Twitter: twitter.com/netfreedom
>> Email: rguerra at privaterra.org
>>
>> On 2012-10-31, at 9:30 PM, Izumi AIZU wrote:
>>
>> > It is in part my fault for not wrapping up the discussion quickly, to
>> > select the speakers
>> > and liaise to the Secretariat. So sorry about this delay.
>> >
>> > I guess IGF Secretariat chose one from IGC members and another one from
>> non-IGC.
>> >
>> > They had indicated that the speaker does not have to be IGC member per
>> se.
>> >
>> > IGC is not the sole representative of the Civil Society for IGF.
>> >
>> > Yet I believe Valentina will also  be an excellent speaker, especially
>> from
>> > Central/East Europe.
>> >
>> >
>> > izumi
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > 2012/11/1 shaila mistry <shailam at yahoo.com>:
>> >> me too :)
>> >>
>> >> The journey begins sooner than you anticipate !
>> >> ..................... the renaissance of composure !
>> >>
>> >> ________________________________
>> >> From: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <
>> salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com>
>> >>
>> >> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Robert Guerra <
>> rguerra at privaterra.org>
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 3:40 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
>> >>
>> >> yes it took me by surprise as well Mawaki. :O
>> >>
>> >> Sala
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:29 AM, Robert Guerra <rguerra at privaterra.org
>> >
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> To be honest, in my opinion, the process to select speakers for the
>> main
>> >> opening session has seemed ad-hoc at best.
>> >>
>> >> Would have expected a far more deliberate process along the lines that
>> the
>> >> caucus reviews, recommends and nominates persons for the MAG.
>> >>
>> >> Robert
>> >> --
>> >> R. Guerra
>> >> Phone/Cell: +1 202-905-2081
>> >> Twitter: twitter.com/netfreedom
>> >> Email: rguerra at privaterra.org
>> >>
>> >> On 2012-10-31, at 6:09 PM, Mawaki Chango wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Hi,
>> >>>
>> >>> ... Still, I'm not sure I understand the process that got us
>> >>> nominating people and end up with a name that was never mentioned here
>> >>> (this is nothing personal). Were there other CS groups that had been
>> >>> running the same nomination process? Is this at the discretion of the
>> >>> Secretariat? And what happens now to the idea of collectively prepared
>> >>> discourse or talking points, and to Milton's good start on that?
>> >>>
>> >>> Just asking.
>> >>>
>> >>> mawaki
>> >>>
>> >>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 8:58 PM, Nnenna <nne75 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I think Carlos and Valentina make a great pair.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Cheers
>> >>>>
>> >>>> N
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Nnenna  Nwakanma |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG  |  Consultants
>> >>>> Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for
>> Development
>> >>>> Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471 |Mob. 07416820
>> >>>> Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065|
>> http://www.nnenna.org
>> >>>> nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 |
>> nnennaorg.blogspot.com
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ________________________________
>> >>>> From: Carlos A. Afonso <ca at cafonso.ca>
>> >>>> To: william.drake at uzh.ch; glaser at cgi.br
>> >>>> Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 8:32 PM
>> >>>> Subject: Re: Re: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
>> >>>>
>> >>>> :)
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Carlos A. Afonso
>> >>>>
>> >>>> William Drake <william.drake at uzh.ch> escreveu:
>> >>>> My apologies to Carlos, I cut and paste from someone else's email
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Oct 31, 2012, at 8:05 PM, Hartmut Richard Glaser wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Correct name is => Carlos Alberto Afonso ...
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ==========================================
>> >>>> On 31/10/12 17:04, William Drake wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hi
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The secretariat has invited Carlos Alfonso for the opening session
>> and
>> >>>> Valentina Pellizzer for the closing session.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Bill
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Oct 31, 2012, at 10:37 AM, Izumi AIZU wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Dear list,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sorry for not following this up earlier. Just too many things to do.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Though I said we may run a poll, I guess Carlos is already our de
>> facto
>> >>>> speaker,
>> >>>> and Nnnena seems to have received good support and fulfills the
>> gender
>> >>>> balance
>> >>>> and also from developing region.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> And as Ginger rightly suggested both speakers will take up the
>> talking
>> >>>> points
>> >>>> into their text, with some degree of, of course, their own words to
>> be
>> >>>> added.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> May I ask you if this is our rough consensus?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Many thanks,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> izumi
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> 2012/10/11 William Drake <william.drake at uzh.ch>:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> it's what they're sending registrants
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Oct 11, 2012, at 8:42 AM, Katy P wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> What? When did this happen?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Oct 11, 2012 8:24 AM, "William Drake" <william.drake at uzh.ch>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> In light of the host country's jaw dropping decision to publicly
>> >>>> disseminate all participants' passport numbers, I hope whoever we
>> have
>> >>>> speaking in the opening an closing will emphasize the centrality of
>> >>>> personal
>> >>>> privacy protection in Internet governance.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Best
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Bill
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Oct 10, 2012, at 5:10 AM, Nnenna wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> +1 On each of the points below.  I am currently in the Côte d'Ivoire
>> >>>> Internet Governance Forum and my drafting capacity is limited.
>>  However,
>> >>>> I
>> >>>> would like to see a line that extends "Multistakeholderism" down to
>> >>>> active
>> >>>> national participation of all stakeholders. AFAIK, in as much as in
>> some
>> >>>> countries, the government is weighing in, in ways that may appear
>> >>>> overbearing, in others, the decision-makers are actually note
>> interested
>> >>>> or
>> >>>> think it is an NGO thing.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Can we have a "Development Agenda" paragraph? I am also thinking that
>> >>>> "Participation" may also need to be a paragraph of its own
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Best
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Nnenna
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Nnenna  Nwakanma |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG
>> >>>> |  Consultants
>> >>>> Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for
>> Development
>> >>>> Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471 |Mob. 07416820
>> >>>> Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065|
>> http://www.nnenna.org/
>> >>>> nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 |
>> nnennaorg.blogspot.com
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ________________________________
>> >>>> From: Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu>
>> >>>> To: 'Ginger Paque' <ginger at paque.net>; "
>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org"
>> >>>> <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 9:07 PM
>> >>>> Subject: RE: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> From: gpaque at gmail.com [mailto:gpaque at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Ginger
>> >>>> Paque
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I think that both points are important... I would say 'in addition
>> to'
>> >>>> not
>> >>>> 'rather than'. Whom we choose sends a signal as sometimes as
>> significant
>> >>>> as
>> >>>> their words, and we tend to know their general positions as well as
>> >>>> speaking
>> >>>> abilities when we nominate them.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Ginger and colleagues:
>> >>>> Yes, of course it is "in addition to" not "rather than" - but has
>> there
>> >>>> been any substantive discussion yet? Frankly I think what they say is
>> >>>> more
>> >>>> important than who we choose, but agree that in some cases "the
>> medium is
>> >>>> the message."  At any rate we are long on "who" and rather short on
>> >>>> "what"
>> >>>> at the moment, so…
>> >>>>
>> >>>> let me throw out three short statements on issues that I passionately
>> >>>> believe should be addressed. In doing so, I will make an attempt to
>> >>>> address
>> >>>> them in a way that takes into account the differences among us and
>> hope
>> >>>> others do so in the same spirit. Other candidate topics would include
>> >>>> IPR,
>> >>>> development…I defer to others there.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Human rights
>> >>>> CS believes that the absence of gatekeepers and the open, global
>> >>>> communication enabled by the Internet realizes the promise of
>> Article 19
>> >>>> of
>> >>>> the UN UDHR. To erect (national) legal barriers to the free flow of
>> >>>> information is a bad idea and contrary to the individual human right
>> to
>> >>>> freedom of expression. We therefore oppose efforts to create
>> "national
>> >>>> Internets," or to block and filter internet access in ways that deny
>> >>>> individuals access to applications, content and services of their
>> choice.
>> >>>> All attempts to deem certain forms of communication and information
>> >>>> illegal
>> >>>> and remove them must follow established, transparent processes of
>> law and
>> >>>> should not involve prior restraint.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Security and Securitization
>> >>>> CS opposes efforts to militarize the Internet, or any actions that
>> would
>> >>>> foster a destructive and wasteful cyber arms race among governments
>> >>>> and/or
>> >>>> private actors. We consider the surreptitious use of exploits and
>> malware
>> >>>> for surveillance or attacks to be criminal regardless of whether
>> they are
>> >>>> deployed by governments, private corporations or organized
>> criminals. We
>> >>>> are
>> >>>> skeptical of efforts to subordinate the design and use of
>> information and
>> >>>> communication technology to "national security" agendas. We believe
>> that
>> >>>> Internet security will be achieved primarily at the operational
>> level and
>> >>>> that national security and military agendas often work against rather
>> >>>> than
>> >>>> for users' security needs.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Multistakeholderism
>> >>>> Global governance institutions should not be restricted to states,
>> so CS
>> >>>> welcomes the additional participation in global policy making that
>> >>>> multi-stakeholder processes provide. But CS cautions that
>> >>>> multi-stakeholder
>> >>>> participation is not an end in itself.  Opening up global governance
>> >>>> institutions to additional voices from civil society and business
>> does
>> >>>> not
>> >>>> by itself ensure that individual rights are adequately protected or
>> that
>> >>>> the
>> >>>> best substantive policies are developed and enforced. In the informal
>> >>>> spaces
>> >>>> created by MS institutions, it is possible that powerful
>> governmental and
>> >>>> corporate actors can make deals contrary to the interests of Internet
>> >>>> users.
>> >>>> MS processes must incorporate and institutionalize concepts of due
>> >>>> process,
>> >>>> separation of powers and user's inalienable civil and political
>> rights.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Milton L. Mueller
>> >>>> Professor, Syracuse University School of Information Studies
>> >>>> Internet Governance Project
>> >>>> http://blog.internetgovernance.org
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ____________________________________________________________
>> >>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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>> >>>>  http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
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>> >>>>  http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> >>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>> >>>>  http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ____________________________________________________________
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>> >>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
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>> >>>> --
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Izumi Aizu <<
>> >>>>
>> >>>>        Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
>> >>>>
>> >>>>         Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
>> >>>>                                Japan
>> >>>>                               * * * * *
>> >>>>         << Writing the Future of the History >>
>> >>>>                              www.anr.org
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ____________________________________________________________
>> >>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
>> >> P.O. Box 17862
>> >> Suva
>> >> Fiji
>> >>
>> >> Twitter: @SalanietaT
>> >> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
>> >> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ____________________________________________________________
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>> >> ____________________________________________________________
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>> >>
>> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> >>> Izumi Aizu <<
>> >
>> >          Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
>> >
>> >           Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
>> >                                  Japan
>> >                                 * * * * *
>> >           << Writing the Future of the History >>
>> >                                www.anr.org
>> >
>> > ____________________________________________________________
>> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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>> > To be removed from the list, visit:
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>> >
>> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
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From mueller at syr.edu  Thu Nov  1 17:57:19 2012
From: mueller at syr.edu (Milton L Mueller)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 21:57:19 +0000
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <1351717131.30525.YahooMailNeo@web120102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <6htvq562u9xwndojpff6tjwa.1351715549740@email.android.com>
 <1351717131.30525.YahooMailNeo@web120102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD2278691@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>

That’s Carlos ALBERTO…and Valentina!!!

From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Nnenna
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 4:59 PM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Carlos A. Afonso
Subject: Re: Re: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku


I think Carlos and Valentina make a great pair.

Cheers

N



Nnenna  Nwakanma |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG  |  Consultants
Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development
Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471 |Mob. 07416820
Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065| http://www.nnenna.org
nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 | nnennaorg.blogspot.com
________________________________
From: Carlos A. Afonso <ca at cafonso.ca>
To: william.drake at uzh.ch; glaser at cgi.br
Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: Re: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku

:)




Carlos A. Afonso

William Drake <william.drake at uzh.ch> escreveu:
My apologies to Carlos, I cut and paste from someone else's email


On Oct 31, 2012, at 8:05 PM, Hartmut Richard Glaser wrote:



Correct name is => Carlos Alberto Afonso ...

==========================================
On 31/10/12 17:04, William Drake wrote:

Hi



The secretariat has invited Carlos Alfonso for the opening session and Valentina Pellizzer for the closing session.



Bill



On Oct 31, 2012, at 10:37 AM, Izumi AIZU wrote:



Dear list,



Sorry for not following this up earlier. Just too many things to do.



Though I said we may run a poll, I guess Carlos is already our de facto speaker,

and Nnnena seems to have received good support and fulfills the gender balance

and also from developing region.



And as Ginger rightly suggested both speakers will take up the talking points

into their text, with some degree of, of course, their own words to be added.



May I ask you if this is our rough consensus?



Many thanks,



izumi











2012/10/11 William Drake <william.drake at uzh.ch><mailto:william.drake at uzh.ch>:

it's what they're sending registrants



On Oct 11, 2012, at 8:42 AM, Katy P wrote:



What? When did this happen?



On Oct 11, 2012 8:24 AM, "William Drake" <william.drake at uzh.ch><mailto:william.drake at uzh.ch> wrote:

In light of the host country's jaw dropping decision to publicly

disseminate all participants' passport numbers, I hope whoever we have

speaking in the opening an closing will emphasize the centrality of personal

privacy protection in Internet governance.



Best



Bill



On Oct 10, 2012, at 5:10 AM, Nnenna wrote:



+1 On each of the points below.  I am currently in the Côte d'Ivoire

Internet Governance Forum and my drafting capacity is limited.  However, I

would like to see a line that extends "Multistakeholderism" down to active

national participation of all stakeholders. AFAIK, in as much as in some

countries, the government is weighing in, in ways that may appear

overbearing, in others, the decision-makers are actually note interested or

think it is an NGO thing.



Can we have a "Development Agenda" paragraph? I am also thinking that

"Participation" may also need to be a paragraph of its own



Best



Nnenna







Nnenna  Nwakanma |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG<http://nnenna.org/>  |  Consultants

Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development

Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471 |Mob. 07416820

Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065| http://www.nnenna.org/

nnenna at nnenna.org<mailto:nnenna at nnenna.org>| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 | nnennaorg.blogspot.com<http://nnennaorg.blogspot.com/>



________________________________

From: Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu><mailto:mueller at syr.edu>

To: 'Ginger Paque' <ginger at paque.net><mailto:ginger at paque.net>; "governance at lists.igcaucus.org"<mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>

<governance at lists.igcaucus.org><mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>

Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 9:07 PM

Subject: RE: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku





From: gpaque at gmail.com<mailto:gpaque at gmail.com> [mailto:gpaque at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Ginger Paque



I think that both points are important... I would say 'in addition to' not

'rather than'. Whom we choose sends a signal as sometimes as significant as

their words, and we tend to know their general positions as well as speaking

abilities when we nominate them.



Ginger and colleagues:

Yes, of course it is "in addition to" not "rather than" - but has there

been any substantive discussion yet? Frankly I think what they say is more

important than who we choose, but agree that in some cases "the medium is

the message."  At any rate we are long on "who" and rather short on "what"

at the moment, so…



let me throw out three short statements on issues that I passionately

believe should be addressed. In doing so, I will make an attempt to address

them in a way that takes into account the differences among us and hope

others do so in the same spirit. Other candidate topics would include IPR,

development…I defer to others there.



Human rights

CS believes that the absence of gatekeepers and the open, global

communication enabled by the Internet realizes the promise of Article 19 of

the UN UDHR. To erect (national) legal barriers to the free flow of

information is a bad idea and contrary to the individual human right to

freedom of expression. We therefore oppose efforts to create "national

Internets," or to block and filter internet access in ways that deny

individuals access to applications, content and services of their choice.

All attempts to deem certain forms of communication and information illegal

and remove them must follow established, transparent processes of law and

should not involve prior restraint.



Security and Securitization

CS opposes efforts to militarize the Internet, or any actions that would

foster a destructive and wasteful cyber arms race among governments and/or

private actors. We consider the surreptitious use of exploits and malware

for surveillance or attacks to be criminal regardless of whether they are

deployed by governments, private corporations or organized criminals. We are

skeptical of efforts to subordinate the design and use of information and

communication technology to "national security" agendas. We believe that

Internet security will be achieved primarily at the operational level and

that national security and military agendas often work against rather than

for users' security needs.



Multistakeholderism

Global governance institutions should not be restricted to states, so CS

welcomes the additional participation in global policy making that

multi-stakeholder processes provide. But CS cautions that multi-stakeholder

participation is not an end in itself.  Opening up global governance

institutions to additional voices from civil society and business does not

by itself ensure that individual rights are adequately protected or that the

best substantive policies are developed and enforced. In the informal spaces

created by MS institutions, it is possible that powerful governmental and

corporate actors can make deals contrary to the interests of Internet users.

MS processes must incorporate and institutionalize concepts of due process,

separation of powers and user's inalienable civil and political rights.



Milton L. Mueller

Professor, Syracuse University School of Information Studies

Internet Governance Project

http://blog.internetgovernance.org<http://blog.internetgovernance.org/>







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--

Izumi Aizu <<

         Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo



          Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,

                                 Japan

                                * * * * *

          << Writing the Future of the History >>

                               www.anr.org<http://www.anr.org/>



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From mueller at syr.edu  Thu Nov  1 17:58:48 2012
From: mueller at syr.edu (Milton L Mueller)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 21:58:48 +0000
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <CACTo+v8pGfPPAPGyryUm_rd0zTkRx4OzhT0ZTNLi2h2Kh+=pxw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6htvq562u9xwndojpff6tjwa.1351715549740@email.android.com>
	<1351717131.30525.YahooMailNeo@web120102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CACTo+v8pGfPPAPGyryUm_rd0zTkRx4OzhT0ZTNLi2h2Kh+=pxw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD22786B4@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>

It's a valid question, Mawaki. 
The answer seems to be: when it comes to the UN, _everything_ is discretionary, including MAG selections as well as CS speakers. 
This is obviously a bad system, and needs to be challenged and changed.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-
> request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Mawaki Chango
> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 6:10 PM
> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Nnenna
> Subject: Re: Re: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
> 
> Hi,
> 
> ... Still, I'm not sure I understand the process that got us nominating
> people and end up with a name that was never mentioned here (this is
> nothing personal). Were there other CS groups that had been running the
> same nomination process? Is this at the discretion of the Secretariat?
> And what happens now to the idea of collectively prepared discourse or
> talking points, and to Milton's good start on that?
> 
> Just asking.
> 
> mawaki
> 
> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 8:58 PM, Nnenna <nne75 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > I think Carlos and Valentina make a great pair.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > N
> >
> >
> >
> > Nnenna  Nwakanma |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG  |  Consultants
> > Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development
> > Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471 |Mob. 07416820
> > Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065| http://www.nnenna.org
> > nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 | nnennaorg.blogspot.com
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Carlos A. Afonso <ca at cafonso.ca>
> > To: william.drake at uzh.ch; glaser at cgi.br
> > Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 8:32 PM
> > Subject: Re: Re: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
> >
> > :)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Carlos A. Afonso
> >
> > William Drake <william.drake at uzh.ch> escreveu:
> > My apologies to Carlos, I cut and paste from someone else's email
> >
> >
> > On Oct 31, 2012, at 8:05 PM, Hartmut Richard Glaser wrote:
> >
> >
> > Correct name is => Carlos Alberto Afonso ...
> >
> > ==========================================
> > On 31/10/12 17:04, William Drake wrote:
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > The secretariat has invited Carlos Alfonso for the opening session and
> > Valentina Pellizzer for the closing session.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > On Oct 31, 2012, at 10:37 AM, Izumi AIZU wrote:
> >
> > Dear list,
> >
> > Sorry for not following this up earlier. Just too many things to do.
> >
> > Though I said we may run a poll, I guess Carlos is already our de
> > facto speaker, and Nnnena seems to have received good support and
> > fulfills the gender balance and also from developing region.
> >
> > And as Ginger rightly suggested both speakers will take up the talking
> > points into their text, with some degree of, of course, their own
> > words to be added.
> >
> > May I ask you if this is our rough consensus?
> >
> > Many thanks,
> >
> > izumi
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 2012/10/11 William Drake <william.drake at uzh.ch>:
> >
> > it's what they're sending registrants
> >
> > On Oct 11, 2012, at 8:42 AM, Katy P wrote:
> >
> > What? When did this happen?
> >
> > On Oct 11, 2012 8:24 AM, "William Drake" <william.drake at uzh.ch> wrote:
> >
> > In light of the host country's jaw dropping decision to publicly
> > disseminate all participants' passport numbers, I hope whoever we have
> > speaking in the opening an closing will emphasize the centrality of
> > personal privacy protection in Internet governance.
> >
> > Best
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > On Oct 10, 2012, at 5:10 AM, Nnenna wrote:
> >
> > +1 On each of the points below.  I am currently in the Côte d'Ivoire
> > Internet Governance Forum and my drafting capacity is limited.
> > However, I would like to see a line that extends "Multistakeholderism"
> > down to active national participation of all stakeholders. AFAIK, in
> > as much as in some countries, the government is weighing in, in ways
> > that may appear overbearing, in others, the decision-makers are
> > actually note interested or think it is an NGO thing.
> >
> > Can we have a "Development Agenda" paragraph? I am also thinking that
> > "Participation" may also need to be a paragraph of its own
> >
> > Best
> >
> > Nnenna
> >
> >
> >
> > Nnenna  Nwakanma |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG
> >   |  Consultants
> > Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development
> > Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471 |Mob. 07416820
> > Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065|
> > http://www.nnenna.org/ nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 |
> > nnennaorg.blogspot.com
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu>
> > To: 'Ginger Paque' <ginger at paque.net>; "governance at lists.igcaucus.org"
> > <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 9:07 PM
> > Subject: RE: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
> >
> >
> > From: gpaque at gmail.com [mailto:gpaque at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Ginger
> > Paque
> >
> > I think that both points are important... I would say 'in addition to'
> > not 'rather than'. Whom we choose sends a signal as sometimes as
> > significant as their words, and we tend to know their general
> > positions as well as speaking abilities when we nominate them.
> >
> > Ginger and colleagues:
> > Yes, of course it is "in addition to" not "rather than" - but has
> > there been any substantive discussion yet? Frankly I think what they
> > say is more important than who we choose, but agree that in some cases
> > "the medium is the message."  At any rate we are long on "who" and
> rather short on "what"
> > at the moment, so.
> >
> > let me throw out three short statements on issues that I passionately
> > believe should be addressed. In doing so, I will make an attempt to
> > address them in a way that takes into account the differences among us
> > and hope others do so in the same spirit. Other candidate topics would
> > include IPR, development.I defer to others there.
> >
> > Human rights
> > CS believes that the absence of gatekeepers and the open, global
> > communication enabled by the Internet realizes the promise of Article
> > 19 of the UN UDHR. To erect (national) legal barriers to the free flow
> > of information is a bad idea and contrary to the individual human
> > right to freedom of expression. We therefore oppose efforts to create
> > "national Internets," or to block and filter internet access in ways
> > that deny individuals access to applications, content and services of
> their choice.
> > All attempts to deem certain forms of communication and information
> > illegal and remove them must follow established, transparent processes
> > of law and should not involve prior restraint.
> >
> > Security and Securitization
> > CS opposes efforts to militarize the Internet, or any actions that
> > would foster a destructive and wasteful cyber arms race among
> > governments and/or private actors. We consider the surreptitious use
> > of exploits and malware for surveillance or attacks to be criminal
> > regardless of whether they are deployed by governments, private
> > corporations or organized criminals. We are skeptical of efforts to
> > subordinate the design and use of information and communication
> > technology to "national security" agendas. We believe that Internet
> > security will be achieved primarily at the operational level and that
> > national security and military agendas often work against rather than
> for users' security needs.
> >
> > Multistakeholderism
> > Global governance institutions should not be restricted to states, so
> > CS welcomes the additional participation in global policy making that
> > multi-stakeholder processes provide. But CS cautions that
> > multi-stakeholder participation is not an end in itself.  Opening up
> > global governance institutions to additional voices from civil society
> > and business does not by itself ensure that individual rights are
> > adequately protected or that the best substantive policies are
> > developed and enforced. In the informal spaces created by MS
> > institutions, it is possible that powerful governmental and corporate
> actors can make deals contrary to the interests of Internet users.
> > MS processes must incorporate and institutionalize concepts of due
> > process, separation of powers and user's inalienable civil and
> political rights.
> >
> > Milton L. Mueller
> > Professor, Syracuse University School of Information Studies Internet
> > Governance Project http://blog.internetgovernance.org
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> > To be removed from the list, visit:
> >    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >
> > For all other list information and functions, see:
> >    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >    http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >
> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> > To be removed from the list, visit:
> >    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >
> > For all other list information and functions, see:
> >    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >    http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >
> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> > To be removed from the list, visit:
> >     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >
> > For all other list information and functions, see:
> >     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >
> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> > To be removed from the list, visit:
> >     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >
> > For all other list information and functions, see:
> >     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >
> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >
> > --
> >
> > Izumi Aizu <<
> >
> >          Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
> >
> >           Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
> >                                  Japan
> >                                 * * * * *
> >           << Writing the Future of the History >>
> >                                www.anr.org
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> > To be removed from the list, visit:
> >     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >
> > For all other list information and functions, see:
> >     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >
> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> > To be removed from the list, visit:
> >     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >
> > For all other list information and functions, see:
> >     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >
> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> > To be removed from the list, visit:
> >      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >
> > For all other list information and functions, see:
> >      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >      http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >
> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >


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From mueller at syr.edu  Thu Nov  1 18:04:15 2012
From: mueller at syr.edu (Milton L Mueller)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 22:04:15 +0000
Subject: [governance] Fwd: IGF 2012 - Bilateral meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAHuaJtOPZr7YkE43npAs=iNkMUh66v031Oo6Gc0rkBLk1mhmCA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <F0E565BA8D19DF43BA6164890C258431043FAF@S-DC-ESTG04-B.net1.cec.eu.int>
	<2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3EC@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
	<CA+YNoKj5zX8SLoVYjV0zHX5Jew20R2fvg_WNGFgvE8hxAfHh0w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHuaJtOPZr7YkE43npAs=iNkMUh66v031Oo6Gc0rkBLk1mhmCA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD22786E4@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>

5 or 6 people, max? Ridiculous. This is an inherently bad, undemocratic method.
Governments such as the EC try to impose false notions of "representation" on civil society, by seeking a few "spokespersons" or "representatives." Their only real object is to make their job easier. We should decline to cooperate with this political version of artificial scarcity, and just insist on an open meeting. I am serious. If you are so flattered that they asked for your opinion, but go along with their attempt to reduce civil society to a few privileged voices, you are completely missing the point.


On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:05 PM, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org<mailto:iza at anr.org>> wrote:
Following the one in Nairobi last year, European commission and European Parliament
people want to hold an informal meeting with civil society members and
asked Wolfgang to coordinate.

Since this is an informal meeting with limited space, we need to find and decide who will
be there. Around  5 or 6 people, max.

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From mueller at syr.edu  Thu Nov  1 18:08:15 2012
From: mueller at syr.edu (Milton L Mueller)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 22:08:15 +0000
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <CA+YNoKjcL=Nv9TDLoTO0AS+5PA+=skz+KA5qxgAPPvaVCHnBRg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKgr3whoNd2R8Ou-9-utZrWV6FQXq0E7WoNOwdo5w3Fccg@mail.gmail.com>
 <506B08C9.90107@cgi.br> <506B2256.1030707@nupef.org.br>
 <0CB09DB8-E475-4EEB-B1DB-84F1F921071E@privaterra.org>
 <E8336492-79A8-44F9-B96E-64B4AC9E9774@gmail.com>
 <506BCAF1.7080504@itforchange.net> <506BCC3A.3080703@itforchange.net>
 <CAEP5zKRCQX29Ya1kTrzTUxtJNKX_02WHKFbkZCeKqDYbDH5fSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+YNoKjzLREA0JagVbbhekUac_QT3rJTuYSqHPTwY7kqZZSGmg@mail.gmail.com>
 <C170D828-2E40-4E1C-AC3E-578FD442B1C8@christopherwilkinson.eu>
 <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD2248050@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
 <CALCecM-H4nQWir+MqVTiRQPOLsXNavXdG4ofd6M0oe47UK6bMw@mail.gmail.com>
 <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD224C0EE@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
 <1349860254.22164.YahooMailNeo@web120102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <2A131ED0-0371-4EDA-AE99-98943AD1D33C@uzh.ch>
 <CADBMUMG5Yk8uvq0tOdf-9QdXP1DSzOLpQpbWuJktpUK=C6F4-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <04985B25-E155-4931-A380-FC92F0D50033@uzh.ch>
 <CA+YNoKjcL=Nv9TDLoTO0AS+5PA+=skz+KA5qxgAPPvaVCHnBRg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD2278715@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>

Carlos ALBERTO Afonso received overwhelming support from this list, as I recall. He is more than a de facto, he is a legitimate choice. As I recall also, Nnenna politely informed us that she was private sector but expressed a willingness to speak for CS if we wanted her to and gave her a prepared statement. To my mind, that means we should choose someone else. But, I also thought that the UN had made the second choice for us.

--MM

> -----Original Message-----
> 
> Though I said we may run a poll, I guess Carlos is already our de facto
> speaker, and Nnnena seems to have received good support and fulfills the
> gender balance and also from developing region.
> 
> And as Ginger rightly suggested both speakers will take up the talking
> points into their text, with some degree of, of course, their own words
> to be added.
> 
> May I ask you if this is our rough consensus?
> 
> Many thanks,
> 
> izumi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2012/10/11 William Drake <william.drake at uzh.ch>:
> > it's what they're sending registrants
> >
> > On Oct 11, 2012, at 8:42 AM, Katy P wrote:
> >
> > What? When did this happen?
> >
> > On Oct 11, 2012 8:24 AM, "William Drake" <william.drake at uzh.ch> wrote:
> >>
> >> In light of the host country's jaw dropping decision to publicly
> >> disseminate all participants' passport numbers, I hope whoever we
> >> have speaking in the opening an closing will emphasize the centrality
> >> of personal privacy protection in Internet governance.
> >>
> >> Best
> >>
> >> Bill
> >>
> >> On Oct 10, 2012, at 5:10 AM, Nnenna wrote:
> >>
> >> +1 On each of the points below.  I am currently in the Côte d'Ivoire
> >> Internet Governance Forum and my drafting capacity is limited.
> >> However, I would like to see a line that extends
> >> "Multistakeholderism" down to active national participation of all
> >> stakeholders. AFAIK, in as much as in some countries, the government
> >> is weighing in, in ways that may appear overbearing, in others, the
> >> decision-makers are actually note interested or think it is an NGO
> thing.
> >>
> >> Can we have a "Development Agenda" paragraph? I am also thinking that
> >> "Participation" may also need to be a paragraph of its own
> >>
> >> Best
> >>
> >> Nnenna
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Nnenna  Nwakanma |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG  |  Consultants
> >> Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for
> >> Development Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471
> >> |Mob. 07416820
> >> Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065|
> >> http://www.nnenna.org nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 |
> >> nnennaorg.blogspot.com
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu>
> >> To: 'Ginger Paque' <ginger at paque.net>;
> "governance at lists.igcaucus.org"
> >> <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 9:07 PM
> >> Subject: RE: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
> >>
> >>
> >> From: gpaque at gmail.com [mailto:gpaque at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Ginger
> >> Paque
> >>
> >> I think that both points are important... I would say 'in addition
> >> to' not 'rather than'. Whom we choose sends a signal as sometimes as
> >> significant as their words, and we tend to know their general
> >> positions as well as speaking abilities when we nominate them.
> >>
> >> Ginger and colleagues:
> >> Yes, of course it is "in addition to" not "rather than" - but has
> >> there been any substantive discussion yet? Frankly I think what they
> >> say is more important than who we choose, but agree that in some
> >> cases "the medium is the message."  At any rate we are long on "who"
> and rather short on "what"
> >> at the moment, so.
> >>
> >> let me throw out three short statements on issues that I passionately
> >> believe should be addressed. In doing so, I will make an attempt to
> >> address them in a way that takes into account the differences among
> >> us and hope others do so in the same spirit. Other candidate topics
> >> would include IPR, development.I defer to others there.
> >>
> >> Human rights
> >> CS believes that the absence of gatekeepers and the open, global
> >> communication enabled by the Internet realizes the promise of Article
> >> 19 of the UN UDHR. To erect (national) legal barriers to the free
> >> flow of information is a bad idea and contrary to the individual
> >> human right to freedom of expression. We therefore oppose efforts to
> >> create "national Internets," or to block and filter internet access
> >> in ways that deny individuals access to applications, content and
> services of their choice.
> >> All attempts to deem certain forms of communication and information
> >> illegal and remove them must follow established, transparent
> >> processes of law and should not involve prior restraint.
> >>
> >> Security and Securitization
> >> CS opposes efforts to militarize the Internet, or any actions that
> >> would foster a destructive and wasteful cyber arms race among
> >> governments and/or private actors. We consider the surreptitious use
> >> of exploits and malware for surveillance or attacks to be criminal
> >> regardless of whether they are deployed by governments, private
> >> corporations or organized criminals. We are skeptical of efforts to
> >> subordinate the design and use of information and communication
> >> technology to "national security" agendas. We believe that Internet
> >> security will be achieved primarily at the operational level and that
> >> national security and military agendas often work against rather than
> for users' security needs.
> >>
> >> Multistakeholderism
> >> Global governance institutions should not be restricted to states, so
> >> CS welcomes the additional participation in global policy making that
> >> multi-stakeholder processes provide. But CS cautions that
> >> multi-stakeholder participation is not an end in itself.  Opening up
> >> global governance institutions to additional voices from civil
> >> society and business does not by itself ensure that individual rights
> >> are adequately protected or that the best substantive policies are
> >> developed and enforced. In the informal spaces created by MS
> >> institutions, it is possible that powerful governmental and corporate
> actors can make deals contrary to the interests of Internet users.
> >> MS processes must incorporate and institutionalize concepts of due
> >> process, separation of powers and user's inalienable civil and
> political rights.
> >>
> >> Milton L. Mueller
> >> Professor, Syracuse University School of Information Studies Internet
> >> Governance Project http://blog.internetgovernance.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ____________________________________________________________
> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> >> To be removed from the list, visit:
> >>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >>
> >> For all other list information and functions, see:
> >>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >>
> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >>
> >>
> >> ____________________________________________________________
> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> >> To be removed from the list, visit:
> >>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >>
> >> For all other list information and functions, see:
> >>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >>
> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ____________________________________________________________
> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> >> To be removed from the list, visit:
> >>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >>
> >> For all other list information and functions, see:
> >>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >>
> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >>
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> > To be removed from the list, visit:
> >      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >
> > For all other list information and functions, see:
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> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >
> 
> 
> 
> --
>                         >> Izumi Aizu <<
> 
>           Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
> 
>            Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
>                                   Japan
>                                  * * * * *
>            << Writing the Future of the History >>
>                                 www.anr.org


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From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com  Thu Nov  1 18:11:36 2012
From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 11:11:36 +1300
Subject: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
In-Reply-To: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD2278715@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
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Message-ID: <CAJwbTiCvPn7g3HMTbpTiWzqAghS7-ekgNyPzXNKxo-zPqWwnXg@mail.gmail.com>

I agree with you Milton.

On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 11:08 AM, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu> wrote:

> Carlos ALBERTO Afonso received overwhelming support from this list, as I
> recall. He is more than a de facto, he is a legitimate choice. As I recall
> also, Nnenna politely informed us that she was private sector but expressed
> a willingness to speak for CS if we wanted her to and gave her a prepared
> statement. To my mind, that means we should choose someone else. But, I
> also thought that the UN had made the second choice for us.
>
> --MM
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> > Though I said we may run a poll, I guess Carlos is already our de facto
> > speaker, and Nnnena seems to have received good support and fulfills the
> > gender balance and also from developing region.
> >
> > And as Ginger rightly suggested both speakers will take up the talking
> > points into their text, with some degree of, of course, their own words
> > to be added.
> >
> > May I ask you if this is our rough consensus?
> >
> > Many thanks,
> >
> > izumi
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 2012/10/11 William Drake <william.drake at uzh.ch>:
> > > it's what they're sending registrants
> > >
> > > On Oct 11, 2012, at 8:42 AM, Katy P wrote:
> > >
> > > What? When did this happen?
> > >
> > > On Oct 11, 2012 8:24 AM, "William Drake" <william.drake at uzh.ch> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> In light of the host country's jaw dropping decision to publicly
> > >> disseminate all participants' passport numbers, I hope whoever we
> > >> have speaking in the opening an closing will emphasize the centrality
> > >> of personal privacy protection in Internet governance.
> > >>
> > >> Best
> > >>
> > >> Bill
> > >>
> > >> On Oct 10, 2012, at 5:10 AM, Nnenna wrote:
> > >>
> > >> +1 On each of the points below.  I am currently in the Côte d'Ivoire
> > >> Internet Governance Forum and my drafting capacity is limited.
> > >> However, I would like to see a line that extends
> > >> "Multistakeholderism" down to active national participation of all
> > >> stakeholders. AFAIK, in as much as in some countries, the government
> > >> is weighing in, in ways that may appear overbearing, in others, the
> > >> decision-makers are actually note interested or think it is an NGO
> > thing.
> > >>
> > >> Can we have a "Development Agenda" paragraph? I am also thinking that
> > >> "Participation" may also need to be a paragraph of its own
> > >>
> > >> Best
> > >>
> > >> Nnenna
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Nnenna  Nwakanma |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG  |  Consultants
> > >> Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for
> > >> Development Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471
> > >> |Mob. 07416820
> > >> Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065|
> > >> http://www.nnenna.org nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 |
> > >> nnennaorg.blogspot.com
> > >>
> > >> ________________________________
> > >> From: Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu>
> > >> To: 'Ginger Paque' <ginger at paque.net>;
> > "governance at lists.igcaucus.org"
> > >> <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
> > >> Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 9:07 PM
> > >> Subject: RE: [governance] CS Speakers for Baku
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> From: gpaque at gmail.com [mailto:gpaque at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Ginger
> > >> Paque
> > >>
> > >> I think that both points are important... I would say 'in addition
> > >> to' not 'rather than'. Whom we choose sends a signal as sometimes as
> > >> significant as their words, and we tend to know their general
> > >> positions as well as speaking abilities when we nominate them.
> > >>
> > >> Ginger and colleagues:
> > >> Yes, of course it is "in addition to" not "rather than" - but has
> > >> there been any substantive discussion yet? Frankly I think what they
> > >> say is more important than who we choose, but agree that in some
> > >> cases "the medium is the message."  At any rate we are long on "who"
> > and rather short on "what"
> > >> at the moment, so.
> > >>
> > >> let me throw out three short statements on issues that I passionately
> > >> believe should be addressed. In doing so, I will make an attempt to
> > >> address them in a way that takes into account the differences among
> > >> us and hope others do so in the same spirit. Other candidate topics
> > >> would include IPR, development.I defer to others there.
> > >>
> > >> Human rights
> > >> CS believes that the absence of gatekeepers and the open, global
> > >> communication enabled by the Internet realizes the promise of Article
> > >> 19 of the UN UDHR. To erect (national) legal barriers to the free
> > >> flow of information is a bad idea and contrary to the individual
> > >> human right to freedom of expression. We therefore oppose efforts to
> > >> create "national Internets," or to block and filter internet access
> > >> in ways that deny individuals access to applications, content and
> > services of their choice.
> > >> All attempts to deem certain forms of communication and information
> > >> illegal and remove them must follow established, transparent
> > >> processes of law and should not involve prior restraint.
> > >>
> > >> Security and Securitization
> > >> CS opposes efforts to militarize the Internet, or any actions that
> > >> would foster a destructive and wasteful cyber arms race among
> > >> governments and/or private actors. We consider the surreptitious use
> > >> of exploits and malware for surveillance or attacks to be criminal
> > >> regardless of whether they are deployed by governments, private
> > >> corporations or organized criminals. We are skeptical of efforts to
> > >> subordinate the design and use of information and communication
> > >> technology to "national security" agendas. We believe that Internet
> > >> security will be achieved primarily at the operational level and that
> > >> national security and military agendas often work against rather than
> > for users' security needs.
> > >>
> > >> Multistakeholderism
> > >> Global governance institutions should not be restricted to states, so
> > >> CS welcomes the additional participation in global policy making that
> > >> multi-stakeholder processes provide. But CS cautions that
> > >> multi-stakeholder participation is not an end in itself.  Opening up
> > >> global governance institutions to additional voices from civil
> > >> society and business does not by itself ensure that individual rights
> > >> are adequately protected or that the best substantive policies are
> > >> developed and enforced. In the informal spaces created by MS
> > >> institutions, it is possible that powerful governmental and corporate
> > actors can make deals contrary to the interests of Internet users.
> > >> MS processes must incorporate and institutionalize concepts of due
> > >> process, separation of powers and user's inalienable civil and
> > political rights.
> > >>
> > >> Milton L. Mueller
> > >> Professor, Syracuse University School of Information Studies Internet
> > >> Governance Project http://blog.internetgovernance.org
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ____________________________________________________________
> > >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> > >>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> > >> To be removed from the list, visit:
> > >>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> > >>
> > >> For all other list information and functions, see:
> > >>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> > >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> > >>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> > >>
> > >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ____________________________________________________________
> > >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> > >>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> > >> To be removed from the list, visit:
> > >>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> > >>
> > >> For all other list information and functions, see:
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> > >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> > >>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> > >>
> > >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ____________________________________________________________
> > >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> > >>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> > >> To be removed from the list, visit:
> > >>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> > >>
> > >> For all other list information and functions, see:
> > >>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> > >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> > >>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
> > >>
> > >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > ____________________________________________________________
> > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> > >      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> > > To be removed from the list, visit:
> > >      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> > >
> > > For all other list information and functions, see:
> > >      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> > > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> > >      http://www.igcaucus.org/
> > >
> > > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >                         >> Izumi Aizu <<
> >
> >           Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
> >
> >            Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
> >                                   Japan
> >                                  * * * * *
> >            << Writing the Future of the History >>
> >                                 www.anr.org
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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> To be removed from the list, visit:
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>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
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>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
P.O. Box 17862
Suva
Fiji

Twitter: @SalanietaT
Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
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From mueller at syr.edu  Thu Nov  1 18:15:07 2012
From: mueller at syr.edu (Milton L Mueller)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 22:15:07 +0000
Subject: [governance] Sandy and the internet infrastructure
In-Reply-To: <047101cdb72f$fab7fc40$f027f4c0$@gmail.com>
References: <047101cdb72f$fab7fc40$f027f4c0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD2278739@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>

</joke>
So if you actually read the article, it says that internet infrastructure in NEW YORK CITY, USA has been messed up by Sandy. So apparently Mr. Michael “US-hegemony” Gurstein believes that New York _is_ the Internet. Go get him, Parminder.
</end joke>


From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of michael gurstein
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 2:21 AM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
Subject: [governance] Sandy and the internet infrastructure

Superstorm Sandy wreaks havoc on internet infrastructure http://t.co/8I34uSWD

http://gigaom.com/cloud/superstorm-sandy-wreaks-havoc-on-internet-infrastructure/

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From mueller at syr.edu  Thu Nov  1 18:32:01 2012
From: mueller at syr.edu (Milton L Mueller)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 22:32:01 +0000
Subject: [governance] RE: Reasons for 'Internet Traffic Intelligence and
 Surveillance" products
Message-ID: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD227875B@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>

Fouad:
Your answer to David's question reveals a lot of confusion, in my opinion.

Markets respond to supply and demand. It is a simple and predictable feature of markets that businesses (whether in the US or anywhere else) will try to sell their products to people who want to use them and have the money to pay for them. So we have a shared responsibility: for DPI and related surveillance and content-filtering equipment, the demand is created by authoritarian governments who want to control the Internet in their country, while the supply comes from profit-motivated businesses who can meet that demand. Many of these suppliers, by the way, are NOT from the U.S.; many are from Europe, and some are from China or elsewhere.

Don't blame the US advocates of FoE for that.

As for the "dual FoE internet policy," well, it's time to grow up and look at states, including the US state, as self-interested actors and stop believing in the fairy tale that they magically embody the public interest or the people's will. It's also time for you to recognize that nearly all states have contradictory political pressures on them; just as the Pakistani govt doesn't want to alienate the hardcore islamists while continuing to receive $$$ from the US, the US govt (specifically, the State Dept) wants to promote internet freedom while some Congressional pressures want us to withhold nearly all technology from "enemies" or repressive states, and some business-centric agencies and congresspeople want us to expand our market share in foreign countries' technology purchases by selling them more equipment.





From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Fouad Bajwa
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 7:14 PM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Suresh Ramasubramanian
Cc: David Conrad
Subject: Re: Reasons for 'Internet Traffic Intelligence and Surveillance" products (was Re: [governance] speaker at the opening ceremony?)

Let me try to answer the confusion quickly while I am multitasking between packing and documentation:

I'd rather remain implicit. I am sure many of my colleagues from developing countries can list a long list of issues that their countries are concerned about and may be sharing during the WCIT meet and that this list has been discussing in numerous ITR related threads etc. at the end of the day it is more or less around US centric IRM and the challenges of censorship and content filtering. Its not just about iran, russia and china, there are more than a hundred other countries out of which a majority are developing regions and imposing various forms of censorship.

My confusion stands around the dual FoE internet policy of these countries that requires some responsibility. Okay, its not only boeing/narus, cisco or sandvine selling censorship but we have huwae in the league of traffic intelligence and DPI as well. Alright, it may be business as usual but this is giving some countries to show and tell the amazing censorship they have implemented.

Yes there are jurisdiction issues at play  here but then some countries believe in resorting to censorship, blocking and filtering.
On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:13 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net<mailto:suresh at hserus.net>> wrote:
Or is it fouads argument that sandvine gear was bought specifically to censor any discussion of the cir process?  I don't quite understand the logic here either

--srs (htc one x)



----- Reply message -----
From: "David Conrad" <drc at virtualized.org<mailto:drc at virtualized.org>>
To: <governance at lists.igcaucus.org<mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>>
Subject: Reasons for 'Internet Traffic Intelligence and Surveillance" products (was Re: [governance] speaker at the opening ceremony?)
Date: Tue, Oct 30, 2012 9:01 PM

Fouad,

On Oct 30, 2012, at 6:20 AM, Fouad Bajwa <fouadbajwa at gmail.com<mailto:fouadbajwa at gmail.com>> wrote:
> The fact remains that as US-Centric Internet Resource Management remains, countries have been sold various Internet Traffic Intelligence and Surveillance systems by US and Canadian companies. An evident example is the use of Sandvine traffic intelligence by PTCL Pakistan Telecommunication Company Limited. PTCL is the largest ICT/Telecom provider in the country and manages the Internet trunks.
I'm curious: how does "US-Centric Internet Resource Management" cause PTCL (et al) to purchase products like Sandvine's?
Thanks,
-drc



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Regards.
--------------------------
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From brett at accessnow.org  Thu Nov  1 19:31:53 2012
From: brett at accessnow.org (Brett Solomon)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 19:31:53 -0400
Subject: [governance] Panels at the IGF you may be interested in
Message-ID: <CAA5eo1LQi29-Xt-PyB_2aq1jK9SiQ9mFOdhrQmE-G2W2xEGoFw@mail.gmail.com>

Hey there,

Hoping to see many of you in Baku. It will be the fourth year that Access
has been at the IGF (that happened fast!!!). Below is a list of panels
we're involved with. Please join us if you are in Baku or participate
remotely via the IGF
website<http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/component/content/article/114-preparatory-process/927-igf-2012>where
possible.

*How to engage users on Internet
Policies<http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/w2012/proposals>? (WS
120) <http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/w2012/proposals>
Nov 6th (Day 1) | 14:30-16:00 | Conf. Room 3 |
*

2012 has witnessed an incredible galvanization of internet users who were
often politically uninvolved, but now are rising up and taking an interest
in what was once arcane internet policy. Engaging these users has allowed
political and human rights activists to make real progress against threats
to digital rights and other key freedoms. This panel will examine why and
how this happened and what governments and corporations can do to more
proactively and positively engage users in the future.

Panelists: Joana Varon Ferraz, FGV/CTS; Jochai Ben-Avie, Access; Smàri
MacCarthy, innovator and information activist, Iceland; Farid Alakbarov,
Wikipedia Azerbaijan; João Carlos Caribé, Meganão Movement; Max Senges,
Google

Is access to the Internet a human right? (WS
157)<http://wsms1.intgovforum.org/content/no157-access-internet-human-right>
*Nov 7th (Day 2) | 14:30 - 16:00 | Conf. Room 2 | *

The Internet has increasingly become a fundamental medium for trade,
education, government-citizen interaction, as well as individual
communication needs. Though some critics strongly criticize any technology
or medium being given the status of basic human right, such centrality
poses the question if every individual should have a right to access the
Internet.

Panelists: Vint Cerf, Google; Frank La Rue, UN Special Rapporteur on the
Right to Freedom of Opinion and Expression; Richard Allan Policy Director,
Europe, Facebook; Allon Bar, Odyssey / IRP Coalition; Brett Solomon, Access
(moderator); Elvin Mejidov, Azerbaijan; Alice Munyua, Kenyan government

*Conflict in the Cloud - Policy Challenges for Stakeholders & Practical
Solutions for Sustainable Economic Growth (WS
77)<http://wsms1.intgovforum.org/content/no77-conflict-cloud-policy-challenges-stakeholders-practical-solutions-sustainable-economic->
**Nov 7th (Day 2) | 16:30-18:00 | Conf. Room 7 | *
Cloud computing is the natural evolution of the continued growth and
advancement of the internet. However, the dialogue around cloud computing
is currently moving to the next level. We intuitively know that cloud
computing is a huge economic driver of growth and advancement in developing
countries. How can cloud computing provide for sustainable economic growth,
particularly in light of potential conflicts of national and regional laws
involving privacy and government requests (for example the PATRIOT Act in
the United States and other similar laws in other countries)? And are these
national laws in effect trade barriers?

Panelists: Marc Crandall, Google; Scott Marcus, Wissenschaftliches Institut
fuer Infrastructur und Kommunikationsdienste; Bertrand de la Chapelle,
Academie Diplomatique Internationale; Nii Quaynor, Ghana Dot Com Ltd;
Jochai Ben-Avie, Access; Alejandro Pisanty, Universidad Autonoma de Mexico

A plan for rights-respecting telecoms (WS 98)
<http://wsms1.intgovforum.org/content/no98-plan-rights-respecting-telecoms>Nov
8th (Day 3) | 14:30 - 16:00 | Conf. Room 3 |

With great new powers over information dissemination and communications
networks, telecom companies are facing new responsibilities to governments,
customers, and investors. This discussion will help map the options for
sustainable, rights-respecting service and infrastructure provision by the
private companies in varying situations.

Panelists: David Sullivan, GNI; Johan Hallenborg, Swedish Gov’t; Veridiana
Alimonti, Brazilian Consumer Defense Institute (IDEC); Antoaneta
Angelova-Krasteva, European Commission; Patrick Hiselius, TeliaSonera;
Vivek Krishnamurthy, Foley Hoag LLP; Brett Solomon, Access (moderator)

*WS 102 Spectrum for democracy and development (WS
102)<http://wsms1.intgovforum.org/content/no102-spectrum-democracy-and-development>
Nov 9th (Day 4) | 09.00 - 10:30 | Conf. Room 2 |
*

Democratic spectrum regulation can lead to growth in broadband internet
penetration, widespread sharing of information and exchange of ideas,
technological innovation, and long-term economic growth. This panel will
explore ways in which spectrum policy can be reshaped to suit a new and
global democratic era and further development.

Panelists: Kate Coyer, Central European University; Gary Fowlie, ITU; Jeff
Brueggeman, AT&T; Moez Chakchouk, ATI; Paul Mitchell, Microsoft; Jochai
Ben-Avie, Access
Brett

-- 
Brett Solomon
Executive Director | Access
accessnow.org | rightscon.org
skype: brettsolomon | @accessnow
Key ID: 0x312B641A
<http://www.europarl.europa.eu/parliament/public/staticDisplay.do?language=en&id=42>
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From chaitanyabd at gmail.com  Thu Nov  1 21:59:16 2012
From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 07:29:16 +0530
Subject: [governance] On the eve of IGF Azerbaijani parliament proposes
 to toughen legislation surrounding freedom of assembly
In-Reply-To: <CAPVtauneG1ha_=4XY1bOxWh0LShzL6uWoUp4nMUJ_HUQsTn9xQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPVtauneG1ha_=4XY1bOxWh0LShzL6uWoUp4nMUJ_HUQsTn9xQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEP5zKSjnRqi8=X7pO_J2ZYOcwpYHNO5bpNn3ubZWpgbAi+vmg@mail.gmail.com>

Hope they're not trying to cause trouble for the IGF. Fingers crossed all
goes well.

-C

On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:30 PM, Narine Khachatryan <
ms.narine.khachatryan at gmail.com> wrote:

>  *On the eve of IGF Azerbaijani parliament proposes to toughen
> legislation surrounding freedom of assembly *
>
> On Tuesday, October 23 Azerbaijani parliamentarians suggested to toughen
> the legislation surrounding freedom of assembly in the country, Caucasus
> Elections Watch wrote. (
> http://electionswatch.org/2012/10/30/ahead-of-presidential-elections-in-2013-azerbaijani-government-proposes-to-toughen-legislation-on-public-protests/
> ). During a joint  session held by parliamentary committees for “Legal
> Policy and State building”, and “Human Rights” parliamentarians expressed
> their concerns that so-called “unauthorised actions”, which have been on
> the rise in recent years in Azerbaijan,  have had a negative impact on
> Azerbaijan’s international image. This trend, the  lawmakers say, is
> likely  a result of the fact that the penalties are not a big enough
> deterrent for protesters.The lawmakers suggested to increase the fines
> for participating in unsanctioned mobilizations up  to 5000 and 8000
> manat  (up to 7-9 thousand USD).  The proposed amendments to be sent to
> parliament for further deliberation.
>
> Opposition argues these amendments do not comply with country’s
> obligations before Council of Europe and OSCE,  contradict the European
> Convention on Human Rights and Freedoms, the OSCE Copenhagen Document, the
> Council of Europe’s basic principles on freedom of expression and freedom
> of association.  Read more…
>
>
> http://electionswatch.org/2012/10/30/ahead-of-presidential-elections-in-2013-azerbaijani-government-proposes-to-toughen-legislation-on-public-protests/#more-961
>
> Narine Khachatryan
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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From jefsey at jefsey.com  Thu Nov  1 22:53:32 2012
From: jefsey at jefsey.com (JFC Morfin)
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2012 03:53:32 +0100
Subject: [governance] Fwd: IGF 2012 - Bilateral meeting
In-Reply-To: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD22786E4@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.sy
 r.edu>
References: <F0E565BA8D19DF43BA6164890C258431043FAF@S-DC-ESTG04-B.net1.cec.eu.int>
 <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3EC@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
 <CA+YNoKj5zX8SLoVYjV0zHX5Jew20R2fvg_WNGFgvE8hxAfHh0w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHuaJtOPZr7YkE43npAs=iNkMUh66v031Oo6Gc0rkBLk1mhmCA@mail.gmail.com>
 <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD22786E4@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <E1TU7Md-0006S8-Vw@igcaucus.org>

At 23:04 01/11/2012, Milton L Mueller wrote:
>5 or 6 people, max? Ridiculous. This is an inherently bad, 
>undemocratic method.
>Governments such as the EC try to impose false notions of 
>"representation" on civil societty, by seeking a few "spokespersons" 
>or "representatives." Their only real object is to make their job 
>easier. We should decline to cooperate with this political version 
>of artificial scarcity, and just insist on an open meeting. I am 
>serious. If you are so flattered that they asked for your opinion, 
>but go along with their attempt to reduce civil society to a few 
>privileged voices, you are completely missing the point.

+1
However, these people most probably only want to be clearly taught in 
an open minded meeting (they cannot negociate anything with the civil 
society except through a constitutional referendum) . A way to deal 
with this could be for you to ask them the topics they would like to 
cover. So you may also organize the meeting and introduce you as 
expert in civil society positions as by its very civil (not organized 
nature) civil society has no representative. Try to explain them that 
is the same as if we asked them to coordinate 3 or 4 European States 
to meet with us.
jfc 


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From gurstein at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 01:40:58 2012
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 07:40:58 +0200
Subject: [governance] Fwd: IGF 2012 - Bilateral meeting
In-Reply-To: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD22786E4@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
References: <F0E565BA8D19DF43BA6164890C258431043FAF@S-DC-ESTG04-B.net1.cec.eu.int>	<2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3EC@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>	<CA+YNoKj5zX8SLoVYjV0zHX5Jew20R2fvg_WNGFgvE8hxAfHh0w@mail.gmail.com> <CAHuaJtOPZr7YkE43npAs=iNkMUh66v031Oo6Gc0rkBLk1mhmCA@mail.gmail.com> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD22786E4@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <000001cdb8bc$a3d52630$eb7f7290$@gmail.com>

Ah, Milton at his counter-hegemonic best. :)

 

In solidarity,

 

M

 

From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
[mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Milton L Mueller
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 12:04 AM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Fouad Bajwa; Izumi AIZU
Subject: RE: [governance] Fwd: IGF 2012 - Bilateral meeting

 

5 or 6 people, max? Ridiculous. This is an inherently bad, undemocratic
method. 

Governments such as the EC try to impose false notions of "representation"
on civil society, by seeking a few "spokespersons" or "representatives."
Their only real object is to make their job easier. We should decline to
cooperate with this political version of artificial scarcity, and just
insist on an open meeting. I am serious. If you are so flattered that they
asked for your opinion, but go along with their attempt to reduce civil
society to a few privileged voices, you are completely missing the point. 

 

 

On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:05 PM, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:

Following the one in Nairobi last year, European commission and European
Parliament 

people want to hold an informal meeting with civil society members and 

asked Wolfgang to coordinate.

 

Since this is an informal meeting with limited space, we need to find and
decide who will

be there. Around  5 or 6 people, max.

 

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From andrea at digitalpolicy.it  Fri Nov  2 02:32:10 2012
From: andrea at digitalpolicy.it (Andrea Glorioso)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 07:32:10 +0100
Subject: [governance] Fwd: IGF 2012 - Bilateral meeting
In-Reply-To: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD22786E4@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
References: <F0E565BA8D19DF43BA6164890C258431043FAF@S-DC-ESTG04-B.net1.cec.eu.int>
	<2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3EC@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
	<CA+YNoKj5zX8SLoVYjV0zHX5Jew20R2fvg_WNGFgvE8hxAfHh0w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHuaJtOPZr7YkE43npAs=iNkMUh66v031Oo6Gc0rkBLk1mhmCA@mail.gmail.com>
	<855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD22786E4@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <CAOLD2+Zkj3MC6Ou1CK39rN7yozvXLw=0vToieZrVMvA3vERiLw@mail.gmail.com>

(Speaking with the "European Commission official" hat here).

Let's not blow things out of proportion. There is no attempt at "imposing
false notions of representations" for the simple reason that in the dark
corridors of Mordor, I mean Brussels, we are perfectly aware "civil
society" is a rather fluid concept and it is difficult to identify
"spokesperson" or "representatives" (which, incidentally, also means that
when any of the various persons or organisations in the "civil society"
galaxy claims to "represent" anything, our usual reaction is one of
skepticism. You can't have it both ways I guess).

Frankly,anyway, I do not quite understand why it is ok for the IGC to have
"co-coordinators" which *de facto* speak on behalf of the IGC in several
occasions, and for members of this list to choose a speaker that will *de
facto* represent them at the opening session (if I understood well); but
when other parties ask whether there are NGOs et al that would like to have
an *informal* chat with people from the European Commission and the
European Parliament, all hell breaks loose.

But I guess that since the EU's final plan is to take over the Internet and
impose automatic translation of all websites in 22 languages, we can't
possibly be trusted.

More practically, if you can find a venue large enough for an open meeting
(we couldn't) why not propose a larger set-up?

Best,

Andrea

On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:04 PM, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu> wrote:

>  5 or 6 people, max? Ridiculous. This is an inherently bad, undemocratic
> method. ****
>
> Governments such as the EC try to impose false notions of “representation”
> on civil society, by seeking a few “spokespersons” or “representatives.”
> Their only real object is to make their job easier. We should decline to
> cooperate with this political version of artificial scarcity, and just
> insist on an open meeting. I am serious. If you are so flattered that they
> asked for your opinion, but go along with their attempt to reduce civil
> society to a few privileged voices, you are completely missing the point.
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:05 PM, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:****
>
> Following the one in Nairobi last year, European commission and
> European Parliament ****
>
> people want to hold an informal meeting with civil society members and ***
> *
>
> asked Wolfgang to coordinate.****
>
> ** **
>
> Since this is an informal meeting with limited space, we need to find and
> decide who will****
>
> be there. Around  5 or 6 people, max.****
>
> ** **
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 

--
I speak only for myself. Sometimes I do not even agree with myself. Keep it
in mind.
Twitter: @andreaglorioso
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/andrea.glorioso
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From fouadbajwa at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 02:32:39 2012
From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Bajwa)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 11:32:39 +0500
Subject: [governance] Re: Reasons for 'Internet Traffic Intelligence and
 Surveillance" products
In-Reply-To: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD227875B@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
References: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD227875B@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <CAHuaJtPHgcbkiMF-=CnuSbdw1EkYGWhTEzz3rWhaKbn4tFmX9A@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Milton,

Your comments are welcome as always! One has to add the element of
confusion not to be re-quoted intentionally or unintentionally where such
authoritarian regimes are at play and one may be prone to concerns!

My previous comments are based upon facts that I hear occasionally quoted
during US leadership statements on online FoE and protection of pluralism
and at the end of the day companies from that country are on the forefront
of bidding and deploying traffic intelligence  Okay, these companies
operate in a free market environment but then the credibility of such
statements collapse amidst surveillance cooperation even if its done by
companies from that region.

I have always felt that the US has mixed market dynamics and regulators do
keep an eye and do not tend to overlook the fact that their companies do
have country level offices that can independently participate in government
contracts outside the US.

I will have to differ here that devoted support for US and Canadian traffic
monitoring and intelligence companies that they are not involved in
censorship because I have witnessed credible information.

I must point out that your defense for the Northern American companies
argument depicts the traditional free market support whereas I am inclined
to believe that its a mixed market approach because the government
diplomacy in terms of Foreign Policy and economic drives cannot be
completely ignorant of a key component of its globalization agenda/strategy
of which Internet is an important tool and catalyst of a global world
order. Anyways, these are from the airport, do I see you in Baku?

Best

Fouad

On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 3:32 AM, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu> wrote:

>  Fouad:****
>
> Your answer to David’s question reveals a lot of confusion, in my opinion.
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> Markets respond to supply and demand. It is a simple and predictable
> feature of markets that businesses (whether in the US or anywhere else)
> will try to sell their products to people who want to use them and have the
> money to pay for them. So we have a shared responsibility: for DPI and
> related surveillance and content-filtering equipment, the *demand* is
> created by authoritarian governments who want to control the Internet in
> their country, while the *supply* comes from profit-motivated businesses
> who can meet that demand. Many of these suppliers, by the way, are NOT from
> the U.S.; many are from Europe, and some are from China or elsewhere. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Don’t blame the US advocates of FoE for that. ****
>
> ** **
>
> As for the “dual FoE internet policy,” well, it’s time to grow up and look
> at states, including the US state, as self-interested actors and stop
> believing in the fairy tale that they magically embody the public interest
> or the people’s will. It’s also time for you to recognize that nearly all
> states have contradictory political pressures on them; just as the
> Pakistani govt doesn’t want to alienate the hardcore islamists while
> continuing to receive $$$ from the US, the US govt (specifically, the State
> Dept) wants to promote internet freedom while some Congressional pressures
> want us to withhold nearly all technology from “enemies” or repressive
> states, and some business-centric agencies and congresspeople want us to
> expand our market share in foreign countries’ technology purchases by
> selling them more equipment.  ****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:
> governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] *On Behalf Of *Fouad Bajwa
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 30, 2012 7:14 PM
> *To:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Suresh Ramasubramanian
> *Cc:* David Conrad
> *Subject:* Re: Reasons for 'Internet Traffic Intelligence and
> Surveillance" products (was Re: [governance] speaker at the opening
> ceremony?)****
>
> ** **
>
> Let me try to answer the confusion quickly while I am multitasking between
> packing and documentation:****
>
> ** **
>
> I'd rather remain implicit. I am sure many of my colleagues from
> developing countries can list a long list of issues that their countries
> are concerned about and may be sharing during the WCIT meet and that this
> list has been discussing in numerous ITR related threads etc. at the end of
> the day it is more or less around US centric IRM and the challenges of
> censorship and content filtering. Its not just about iran, russia and
> china, there are more than a hundred other countries out of which a
> majority are developing regions and imposing various forms of censorship.*
> ***
>
> ** **
>
> My confusion stands around the dual FoE internet policy of these countries
> that requires some responsibility. Okay, its not only boeing/narus, cisco
> or sandvine selling censorship but we have huwae in the league of
> traffic intelligence and DPI as well. Alright, it may be business as usual
> but this is giving some countries to show and tell the amazing censorship
> they have implemented. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Yes there are jurisdiction issues at play  here but then some countries
> believe in resorting to censorship, blocking and filtering.****
>
> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:13 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net>
> wrote:****
>
> Or is it fouads argument that sandvine gear was bought specifically to
> censor any discussion of the cir process?  I don't quite understand the
> logic here either
>
> --srs (htc one x)****
>
>
>
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "David Conrad" <drc at virtualized.org>
> To: <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
> Subject: Reasons for 'Internet Traffic Intelligence and Surveillance"
> products (was Re: [governance] speaker at the opening ceremony?)
> Date: Tue, Oct 30, 2012 9:01 PM****
>
>
> Fouad,
>
> On Oct 30, 2012, at 6:20 AM, Fouad Bajwa <fouadbajwa at gmail.com> wrote:
> > The fact remains that as US-Centric Internet Resource Management
> remains, countries have been sold various Internet Traffic Intelligence and
> Surveillance systems by US and Canadian companies. An evident example is
> the use of Sandvine traffic intelligence by PTCL Pakistan Telecommunication
> Company Limited. PTCL is the largest ICT/Telecom provider in the country
> and manages the Internet trunks.****
>
> I'm curious: how does "US-Centric Internet Resource Management" cause PTCL
> (et al) to purchase products like Sandvine's?****
>
> Thanks,
> -drc
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t****
>
>
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> --
> Regards.
> --------------------------
> Foo****
>
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From suresh at hserus.net  Fri Nov  2 03:30:41 2012
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 13:00:41 +0530
Subject: [governance] Fwd: IGF 2012 - Bilateral meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAOLD2+Zkj3MC6Ou1CK39rN7yozvXLw=0vToieZrVMvA3vERiLw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <F0E565BA8D19DF43BA6164890C258431043FAF@S-DC-ESTG04-B.net1.cec.eu.int> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3EC@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <CA+YNoKj5zX8SLoVYjV0zHX5Jew20R2fvg_WNGFgvE8hxAfHh0w@mail.gmail.com> <CAHuaJtOPZr7YkE43npAs=iNkMUh66v031Oo6Gc0rkBLk1mhmCA@mail.gmail.com> <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD22786E4@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <CAOLD2+Zkj3MC6Ou1CK39rN7yozvXLw=0vToieZrVMvA3vERiLw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A5CA09C5-EF82-4828-9FAC-7B4C2574ADF2@hserus.net>

Sauces for the goose, and for the gander :)

Very well put - and I share your skepticism about "civil society consensus", informed consensus at any rate, for an audience that is larger than the typical igov involved civ soc organization crowd

--srs (iPad)

On 02-Nov-2012, at 12:02, Andrea Glorioso <andrea at digitalpolicy.it> wrote:

> (Speaking with the "European Commission official" hat here).
> 
> Let's not blow things out of proportion. There is no attempt at "imposing false notions of representations" for the simple reason that in the dark corridors of Mordor, I mean Brussels, we are perfectly aware "civil society" is a rather fluid concept and it is difficult to identify "spokesperson" or "representatives" (which, incidentally, also means that when any of the various persons or organisations in the "civil society" galaxy claims to "represent" anything, our usual reaction is one of skepticism. You can't have it both ways I guess).
> 
> Frankly,anyway, I do not quite understand why it is ok for the IGC to have "co-coordinators" which de facto speak on behalf of the IGC in several occasions, and for members of this list to choose a speaker that will de facto represent them at the opening session (if I understood well); but when other parties ask whether there are NGOs et al that would like to have an informal chat with people from the European Commission and the European Parliament, all hell breaks loose.
> 
> But I guess that since the EU's final plan is to take over the Internet and impose automatic translation of all websites in 22 languages, we can't possibly be trusted.
> 
> More practically, if you can find a venue large enough for an open meeting (we couldn't) why not propose a larger set-up?
> 
> Best,
> 
> Andrea
> 
> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:04 PM, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu> wrote:
>> 5 or 6 people, max? Ridiculous. This is an inherently bad, undemocratic method.
>> 
>> Governments such as the EC try to impose false notions of “representation” on civil society, by seeking a few “spokespersons” or “representatives.” Their only real object is to make their job easier. We should decline to cooperate with this political version of artificial scarcity, and just insist on an open meeting. I am serious. If you are so flattered that they asked for your opinion, but go along with their attempt to reduce civil society to a few privileged voices, you are completely missing the point.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:05 PM, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Following the one in Nairobi last year, European commission and European Parliament 
>> 
>> people want to hold an informal meeting with civil society members and 
>> 
>> asked Wolfgang to coordinate.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Since this is an informal meeting with limited space, we need to find and decide who will
>> 
>> be there. Around  5 or 6 people, max.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
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>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
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>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> 
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> --
> I speak only for myself. Sometimes I do not even agree with myself. Keep it in mind.
> Twitter: @andreaglorioso
> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/andrea.glorioso
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=1749288&trk=tab_pro
> ____________________________________________________________
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From gpaque at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 08:37:33 2012
From: gpaque at gmail.com (Ginger Paque)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 07:37:33 -0500
Subject: [governance] Fwd: IGF 2012 - Bilateral meeting
In-Reply-To: <A5CA09C5-EF82-4828-9FAC-7B4C2574ADF2@hserus.net>
References: <F0E565BA8D19DF43BA6164890C258431043FAF@S-DC-ESTG04-B.net1.cec.eu.int>
 <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3EC@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
 <CA+YNoKj5zX8SLoVYjV0zHX5Jew20R2fvg_WNGFgvE8hxAfHh0w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHuaJtOPZr7YkE43npAs=iNkMUh66v031Oo6Gc0rkBLk1mhmCA@mail.gmail.com>
 <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD22786E4@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
 <CAOLD2+Zkj3MC6Ou1CK39rN7yozvXLw=0vToieZrVMvA3vERiLw@mail.gmail.com> <A5CA09C5-EF82-4828-9FAC-7B4C2574ADF2@hserus.net>
Message-ID: <CALCecM8oY458V1Xj=jmzkx9oCgsvqvbr0VVMb+ocJjZf9TW_CQ@mail.gmail.com>

Andrea, thanks for your input. I the strong response to this invitation can
be seen as giving importance to this exchange. I understood the meeting to
be a 'sampling' for idea exchange, not a 'representation'. Possibly this
kind of invitation could be made more informally (not on the list) to avoid
misunderstanding and overwhelming requests to attend. If anything, I think
tension has been fostered by good intentions to be inclusive in what is
meant to be a small, diverse brainstorming session.

Perhaps we should pick up on Andrea's suggestion to request a larger
meeting for brainstorming? Positive energy for communication is important.

Safe travels,
Ginger

Ginger (Virginia) Paque

VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu
Diplo Foundation
Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme
www.diplomacy.edu/ig
**
**



On 2 November 2012 02:30, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net> wrote:

> Sauces for the goose, and for the gander :)
>
> Very well put - and I share your skepticism about "civil society
> consensus", informed consensus at any rate, for an audience that is larger
> than the typical igov involved civ soc organization crowd
>
> --srs (iPad)
>
> On 02-Nov-2012, at 12:02, Andrea Glorioso <andrea at digitalpolicy.it> wrote:
>
> (Speaking with the "European Commission official" hat here).
>
> Let's not blow things out of proportion. There is no attempt at "imposing
> false notions of representations" for the simple reason that in the dark
> corridors of Mordor, I mean Brussels, we are perfectly aware "civil
> society" is a rather fluid concept and it is difficult to identify
> "spokesperson" or "representatives" (which, incidentally, also means that
> when any of the various persons or organisations in the "civil society"
> galaxy claims to "represent" anything, our usual reaction is one of
> skepticism. You can't have it both ways I guess).
>
> Frankly,anyway, I do not quite understand why it is ok for the IGC to have
> "co-coordinators" which *de facto* speak on behalf of the IGC in several
> occasions, and for members of this list to choose a speaker that will *de
> facto* represent them at the opening session (if I understood well); but
> when other parties ask whether there are NGOs et al that would like to have
> an *informal* chat with people from the European Commission and the
> European Parliament, all hell breaks loose.
>
> But I guess that since the EU's final plan is to take over the Internet
> and impose automatic translation of all websites in 22 languages, we can't
> possibly be trusted.
>
> More practically, if you can find a venue large enough for an open meeting
> (we couldn't) why not propose a larger set-up?
>
> Best,
>
> Andrea
>
> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:04 PM, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu> wrote:
>
>>  5 or 6 people, max? Ridiculous. This is an inherently bad, undemocratic
>> method. ****
>>
>> Governments such as the EC try to impose false notions of
>> “representation” on civil society, by seeking a few “spokespersons” or
>> “representatives.” Their only real object is to make their job easier. We
>> should decline to cooperate with this political version of artificial
>> scarcity, and just insist on an open meeting. I am serious. If you are so
>> flattered that they asked for your opinion, but go along with their attempt
>> to reduce civil society to a few privileged voices, you are completely
>> missing the point. ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:05 PM, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:****
>>
>> Following the one in Nairobi last year, European commission and
>> European Parliament ****
>>
>> people want to hold an informal meeting with civil society members and **
>> **
>>
>> asked Wolfgang to coordinate.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Since this is an informal meeting with limited space, we need to find and
>> decide who will****
>>
>> be there. Around  5 or 6 people, max.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> --
> I speak only for myself. Sometimes I do not even agree with myself. Keep
> it in mind.
> Twitter: @andreaglorioso
> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/andrea.glorioso
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=1749288&trk=tab_pro
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
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From drc at virtualized.org  Fri Nov  2 11:02:20 2012
From: drc at virtualized.org (David Conrad)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 08:02:20 -0700
Subject: [governance] Reasons for 'Internet Traffic Intelligence and
 Surveillance" products
In-Reply-To: <CAHuaJtPHgcbkiMF-=CnuSbdw1EkYGWhTEzz3rWhaKbn4tFmX9A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD227875B@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <CAHuaJtPHgcbkiMF-=CnuSbdw1EkYGWhTEzz3rWhaKbn4tFmX9A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A29D6FFA-871A-457D-A7C1-16B47B86E985@virtualized.org>

Fouad,

Your initial note asserted that the US government's role in Internet Resource Management was somehow responsible for folks like PCTL purchasing Internet Traffic and Surveillance systems created by US (or Canada) based companies. I'm still trying to understand the relationship.

The use of DPI tools to censor the Internet appears to me to be largely orthogonal Internet Resource Management, regardless of who is in charge. Do you believe that if (say) the ITU globally or alternatively each government on the planet were responsible for Internet Resource Management in their country, that this would somehow lessen the demand for Internet Traffic Intelligence and Surveillance products?

Or are you saying that because the US has an oversight role of ICANN to ensure some level of accountability in ICANN operations, US (and Canada?) based companies should not be allowed to create products that meet the demand for Internet Traffic Intelligence and Surveillance?

Thanks,
-drc

On Nov 1, 2012, at 11:32 PM, Fouad Bajwa <fouadbajwa at gmail.com> wrote:
> My previous comments are based upon facts that I hear occasionally quoted during US leadership statements on online FoE and protection of pluralism and at the end of the day companies from that country are on the forefront of bidding and deploying traffic intelligence  Okay, these companies operate in a free market environment but then the credibility of such statements collapse amidst surveillance cooperation even if its done by companies from that region.
> 
> I have always felt that the US has mixed market dynamics and regulators do keep an eye and do not tend to overlook the fact that their companies do have country level offices that can independently participate in government contracts outside the US.
> 
> I will have to differ here that devoted support for US and Canadian traffic monitoring and intelligence companies that they are not involved in censorship because I have witnessed credible information. 
> 
> I must point out that your defense for the Northern American companies argument depicts the traditional free market support whereas I am inclined to believe that its a mixed market approach because the government diplomacy in terms of Foreign Policy and economic drives cannot be completely ignorant of a key component of its globalization agenda/strategy of which Internet is an important tool and catalyst of a global world order. Anyways, these are from the airport, do I see you in Baku? 
> 
> Best
> 
> Fouad
> 
> On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 3:32 AM, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu> wrote:
> Fouad:
> 
> Your answer to David’s question reveals a lot of confusion, in my opinion.
> 
>  
> 
> Markets respond to supply and demand. It is a simple and predictable feature of markets that businesses (whether in the US or anywhere else) will try to sell their products to people who want to use them and have the money to pay for them. So we have a shared responsibility: for DPI and related surveillance and content-filtering equipment, the demand is created by authoritarian governments who want to control the Internet in their country, while the supply comes from profit-motivated businesses who can meet that demand. Many of these suppliers, by the way, are NOT from the U.S.; many are from Europe, and some are from China or elsewhere.
> 
>  
> 
> Don’t blame the US advocates of FoE for that.
> 
>  
> 
> As for the “dual FoE internet policy,” well, it’s time to grow up and look at states, including the US state, as self-interested actors and stop believing in the fairy tale that they magically embody the public interest or the people’s will. It’s also time for you to recognize that nearly all states have contradictory political pressures on them; just as the Pakistani govt doesn’t want to alienate the hardcore islamists while continuing to receive $$$ from the US, the US govt (specifically, the State Dept) wants to promote internet freedom while some Congressional pressures want us to withhold nearly all technology from “enemies” or repressive states, and some business-centric agencies and congresspeople want us to expand our market share in foreign countries’ technology purchases by selling them more equipment.  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Fouad Bajwa
> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 7:14 PM
> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Suresh Ramasubramanian
> Cc: David Conrad
> Subject: Re: Reasons for 'Internet Traffic Intelligence and Surveillance" products (was Re: [governance] speaker at the opening ceremony?)
> 
>  
> 
> Let me try to answer the confusion quickly while I am multitasking between packing and documentation:
> 
>  
> 
> I'd rather remain implicit. I am sure many of my colleagues from developing countries can list a long list of issues that their countries are concerned about and may be sharing during the WCIT meet and that this list has been discussing in numerous ITR related threads etc. at the end of the day it is more or less around US centric IRM and the challenges of censorship and content filtering. Its not just about iran, russia and china, there are more than a hundred other countries out of which a majority are developing regions and imposing various forms of censorship.
> 
>  
> 
> My confusion stands around the dual FoE internet policy of these countries that requires some responsibility. Okay, its not only boeing/narus, cisco or sandvine selling censorship but we have huwae in the league of traffic intelligence and DPI as well. Alright, it may be business as usual but this is giving some countries to show and tell the amazing censorship they have implemented. 
> 
>  
> 
> Yes there are jurisdiction issues at play  here but then some countries believe in resorting to censorship, blocking and filtering.
> 
> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:13 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net> wrote:
> 
> Or is it fouads argument that sandvine gear was bought specifically to censor any discussion of the cir process?  I don't quite understand the logic here either
> 
> --srs (htc one x)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "David Conrad" <drc at virtualized.org>
> To: <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
> Subject: Reasons for 'Internet Traffic Intelligence and Surveillance" products (was Re: [governance] speaker at the opening ceremony?)
> Date: Tue, Oct 30, 2012 9:01 PM
> 
> 
> Fouad,
> 
> On Oct 30, 2012, at 6:20 AM, Fouad Bajwa <fouadbajwa at gmail.com> wrote:
> > The fact remains that as US-Centric Internet Resource Management remains, countries have been sold various Internet Traffic Intelligence and Surveillance systems by US and Canadian companies. An evident example is the use of Sandvine traffic intelligence by PTCL Pakistan Telecommunication Company Limited. PTCL is the largest ICT/Telecom provider in the country and manages the Internet trunks.
> 
> I'm curious: how does "US-Centric Internet Resource Management" cause PTCL (et al) to purchase products like Sandvine's?
> 
> Thanks,
> -drc
> 
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> -- 
> Regards.
> --------------------------
> Foo
> 
> 
> 
>  
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
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> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
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From iza at anr.org  Fri Nov  2 11:02:53 2012
From: iza at anr.org (Izumi AIZU)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 00:02:53 +0900
Subject: [governance] Fwd: IGF 2012 - Bilateral meeting
In-Reply-To: <CALCecM8oY458V1Xj=jmzkx9oCgsvqvbr0VVMb+ocJjZf9TW_CQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <F0E565BA8D19DF43BA6164890C258431043FAF@S-DC-ESTG04-B.net1.cec.eu.int>
 <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3EC@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
 <CA+YNoKj5zX8SLoVYjV0zHX5Jew20R2fvg_WNGFgvE8hxAfHh0w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHuaJtOPZr7YkE43npAs=iNkMUh66v031Oo6Gc0rkBLk1mhmCA@mail.gmail.com>
 <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD22786E4@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
 <CAOLD2+Zkj3MC6Ou1CK39rN7yozvXLw=0vToieZrVMvA3vERiLw@mail.gmail.com>
 <A5CA09C5-EF82-4828-9FAC-7B4C2574ADF2@hserus.net> <CALCecM8oY458V1Xj=jmzkx9oCgsvqvbr0VVMb+ocJjZf9TW_CQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+YNoKhcxWo=agMq5dCoE90UDp=fYZtPcTHMgT03Czg-f882Hg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
So far some 12 people on this list indicated that they want to join
this meeting.

Given limited resources myself can spend for the remaining hour before taking
flight to Baku, only 13 hours from now including my sleep tonight, I
am not going
to try to find any large room for this meeting. If someone on this list takes
the responsibility, negotiate with either the local host or IGF
secretariat, that will
be great.

Otherwise, I still suggest that we will be around six people. I feel at least
one of co-cos should be there even this is an informal meeting. The leaves
five. I like to consult with my colleague Sala to make the final selection,
as coordinators duty. Sorry guys, but sometimes we need to make a
practical choice in an imperfect manner.

I also understand that the organizer is European Commission and the European
Parliament, not us, we are just invited as guests, and they do have other
channels for civil societies, NGOs, etc, outside IGC, which is, for me perfectly
fine.

The meeting is scheduled on Nov 8, but they do not plan to announce this
publicly. I am aware the even putting this on to his list has certain
announcement
effect, but, in the interest of openness, at least within IGC, I put it here.

Similar meeting happened in Kenya last year with US government. We so far
have received no invitation from USG or any other parties, but as far as I am
concerned, being the servant of the IGC, I am happy to liaise, or coordinate.

I love the diversity, different ideas and positions, and am still
happy to coordinate.
But I also ask you guys to sometimes share the responsibility and burdens
collectively, or at least understand these sometimes delicate and
difficult limitations
we all have.

best, and see you there for those coming, and see you there online participant
though they are labeled "remote", let's feel closer together.

izumi





2012/11/2 Ginger Paque <gpaque at gmail.com>:
> Andrea, thanks for your input. I the strong response to this invitation can
> be seen as giving importance to this exchange. I understood the meeting to
> be a 'sampling' for idea exchange, not a 'representation'. Possibly this
> kind of invitation could be made more informally (not on the list) to avoid
> misunderstanding and overwhelming requests to attend. If anything, I think
> tension has been fostered by good intentions to be inclusive in what is
> meant to be a small, diverse brainstorming session.
>
> Perhaps we should pick up on Andrea's suggestion to request a larger meeting
> for brainstorming? Positive energy for communication is important.
>
> Safe travels,
> Ginger
>
> Ginger (Virginia) Paque
>
> VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu
> Diplo Foundation
> Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme
> www.diplomacy.edu/ig
>
>
>
>
> On 2 November 2012 02:30, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net> wrote:
>>
>> Sauces for the goose, and for the gander :)
>>
>> Very well put - and I share your skepticism about "civil society
>> consensus", informed consensus at any rate, for an audience that is larger
>> than the typical igov involved civ soc organization crowd
>>
>> --srs (iPad)
>>
>> On 02-Nov-2012, at 12:02, Andrea Glorioso <andrea at digitalpolicy.it> wrote:
>>
>> (Speaking with the "European Commission official" hat here).
>>
>> Let's not blow things out of proportion. There is no attempt at "imposing
>> false notions of representations" for the simple reason that in the dark
>> corridors of Mordor, I mean Brussels, we are perfectly aware "civil society"
>> is a rather fluid concept and it is difficult to identify "spokesperson" or
>> "representatives" (which, incidentally, also means that when any of the
>> various persons or organisations in the "civil society" galaxy claims to
>> "represent" anything, our usual reaction is one of skepticism. You can't
>> have it both ways I guess).
>>
>> Frankly,anyway, I do not quite understand why it is ok for the IGC to have
>> "co-coordinators" which de facto speak on behalf of the IGC in several
>> occasions, and for members of this list to choose a speaker that will de
>> facto represent them at the opening session (if I understood well); but when
>> other parties ask whether there are NGOs et al that would like to have an
>> informal chat with people from the European Commission and the European
>> Parliament, all hell breaks loose.
>>
>> But I guess that since the EU's final plan is to take over the Internet
>> and impose automatic translation of all websites in 22 languages, we can't
>> possibly be trusted.
>>
>> More practically, if you can find a venue large enough for an open meeting
>> (we couldn't) why not propose a larger set-up?
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Andrea
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:04 PM, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> 5 or 6 people, max? Ridiculous. This is an inherently bad, undemocratic
>>> method.
>>>
>>> Governments such as the EC try to impose false notions of
>>> “representation” on civil society, by seeking a few “spokespersons” or
>>> “representatives.” Their only real object is to make their job easier. We
>>> should decline to cooperate with this political version of artificial
>>> scarcity, and just insist on an open meeting. I am serious. If you are so
>>> flattered that they asked for your opinion, but go along with their attempt
>>> to reduce civil society to a few privileged voices, you are completely
>>> missing the point.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:05 PM, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Following the one in Nairobi last year, European commission and European
>>> Parliament
>>>
>>> people want to hold an informal meeting with civil society members and
>>>
>>> asked Wolfgang to coordinate.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Since this is an informal meeting with limited space, we need to find and
>>> decide who will
>>>
>>> be there. Around  5 or 6 people, max.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> --
>> I speak only for myself. Sometimes I do not even agree with myself. Keep
>> it in mind.
>> Twitter: @andreaglorioso
>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/andrea.glorioso
>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=1749288&trk=tab_pro
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
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>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>



-- 
                     >> Izumi Aizu <<
Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
Japan
www.anr.org

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From gpaque at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 11:17:09 2012
From: gpaque at gmail.com (Ginger Paque)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 10:17:09 -0500
Subject: [governance] Fwd: IGF 2012 - Bilateral meeting
In-Reply-To: <CA+YNoKhcxWo=agMq5dCoE90UDp=fYZtPcTHMgT03Czg-f882Hg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <F0E565BA8D19DF43BA6164890C258431043FAF@S-DC-ESTG04-B.net1.cec.eu.int>
 <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3EC@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
 <CA+YNoKj5zX8SLoVYjV0zHX5Jew20R2fvg_WNGFgvE8hxAfHh0w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHuaJtOPZr7YkE43npAs=iNkMUh66v031Oo6Gc0rkBLk1mhmCA@mail.gmail.com>
 <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD22786E4@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
 <CAOLD2+Zkj3MC6Ou1CK39rN7yozvXLw=0vToieZrVMvA3vERiLw@mail.gmail.com>
 <A5CA09C5-EF82-4828-9FAC-7B4C2574ADF2@hserus.net> <CALCecM8oY458V1Xj=jmzkx9oCgsvqvbr0VVMb+ocJjZf9TW_CQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+YNoKhcxWo=agMq5dCoE90UDp=fYZtPcTHMgT03Czg-f882Hg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALCecM97OrrPg_T8enhW0KhNGqXVjYD=xnotBEAgc=0x_AWhQA@mail.gmail.com>

Izumi said:
best, and see you there for those coming, and see you there online
participant
though they are labeled "remote", let's feel closer together.

GINGER: Beautiful, Izumi -- I don't think it could be said any better.
See you all online--I do hope we will form a Skype group for common
'corridor conversations'.



Ginger (Virginia) Paque

VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu
Diplo Foundation
Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme
www.diplomacy.edu/ig
**
**



On 2 November 2012 10:02, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:

> Hi,
> So far some 12 people on this list indicated that they want to join
> this meeting.
>
> Given limited resources myself can spend for the remaining hour before
> taking
> flight to Baku, only 13 hours from now including my sleep tonight, I
> am not going
> to try to find any large room for this meeting. If someone on this list
> takes
> the responsibility, negotiate with either the local host or IGF
> secretariat, that will
> be great.
>
> Otherwise, I still suggest that we will be around six people. I feel at
> least
> one of co-cos should be there even this is an informal meeting. The leaves
> five. I like to consult with my colleague Sala to make the final selection,
> as coordinators duty. Sorry guys, but sometimes we need to make a
> practical choice in an imperfect manner.
>
> I also understand that the organizer is European Commission and the
> European
> Parliament, not us, we are just invited as guests, and they do have other
> channels for civil societies, NGOs, etc, outside IGC, which is, for me
> perfectly
> fine.
>
> The meeting is scheduled on Nov 8, but they do not plan to announce this
> publicly. I am aware the even putting this on to his list has certain
> announcement
> effect, but, in the interest of openness, at least within IGC, I put it
> here.
>
> Similar meeting happened in Kenya last year with US government. We so far
> have received no invitation from USG or any other parties, but as far as I
> am
> concerned, being the servant of the IGC, I am happy to liaise, or
> coordinate.
>
> I love the diversity, different ideas and positions, and am still
> happy to coordinate.
> But I also ask you guys to sometimes share the responsibility and burdens
> collectively, or at least understand these sometimes delicate and
> difficult limitations
> we all have.
>
> best, and see you there for those coming, and see you there online
> participant
> though they are labeled "remote", let's feel closer together.
>
> izumi
>
>
>
>
>
> 2012/11/2 Ginger Paque <gpaque at gmail.com>:
> > Andrea, thanks for your input. I the strong response to this invitation
> can
> > be seen as giving importance to this exchange. I understood the meeting
> to
> > be a 'sampling' for idea exchange, not a 'representation'. Possibly this
> > kind of invitation could be made more informally (not on the list) to
> avoid
> > misunderstanding and overwhelming requests to attend. If anything, I
> think
> > tension has been fostered by good intentions to be inclusive in what is
> > meant to be a small, diverse brainstorming session.
> >
> > Perhaps we should pick up on Andrea's suggestion to request a larger
> meeting
> > for brainstorming? Positive energy for communication is important.
> >
> > Safe travels,
> > Ginger
> >
> > Ginger (Virginia) Paque
> >
> > VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu
> > Diplo Foundation
> > Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme
> > www.diplomacy.edu/ig
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2 November 2012 02:30, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Sauces for the goose, and for the gander :)
> >>
> >> Very well put - and I share your skepticism about "civil society
> >> consensus", informed consensus at any rate, for an audience that is
> larger
> >> than the typical igov involved civ soc organization crowd
> >>
> >> --srs (iPad)
> >>
> >> On 02-Nov-2012, at 12:02, Andrea Glorioso <andrea at digitalpolicy.it>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> (Speaking with the "European Commission official" hat here).
> >>
> >> Let's not blow things out of proportion. There is no attempt at
> "imposing
> >> false notions of representations" for the simple reason that in the dark
> >> corridors of Mordor, I mean Brussels, we are perfectly aware "civil
> society"
> >> is a rather fluid concept and it is difficult to identify
> "spokesperson" or
> >> "representatives" (which, incidentally, also means that when any of the
> >> various persons or organisations in the "civil society" galaxy claims to
> >> "represent" anything, our usual reaction is one of skepticism. You can't
> >> have it both ways I guess).
> >>
> >> Frankly,anyway, I do not quite understand why it is ok for the IGC to
> have
> >> "co-coordinators" which de facto speak on behalf of the IGC in several
> >> occasions, and for members of this list to choose a speaker that will de
> >> facto represent them at the opening session (if I understood well); but
> when
> >> other parties ask whether there are NGOs et al that would like to have
> an
> >> informal chat with people from the European Commission and the European
> >> Parliament, all hell breaks loose.
> >>
> >> But I guess that since the EU's final plan is to take over the Internet
> >> and impose automatic translation of all websites in 22 languages, we
> can't
> >> possibly be trusted.
> >>
> >> More practically, if you can find a venue large enough for an open
> meeting
> >> (we couldn't) why not propose a larger set-up?
> >>
> >> Best,
> >>
> >> Andrea
> >>
> >> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:04 PM, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> 5 or 6 people, max? Ridiculous. This is an inherently bad, undemocratic
> >>> method.
> >>>
> >>> Governments such as the EC try to impose false notions of
> >>> “representation” on civil society, by seeking a few “spokespersons” or
> >>> “representatives.” Their only real object is to make their job easier.
> We
> >>> should decline to cooperate with this political version of artificial
> >>> scarcity, and just insist on an open meeting. I am serious. If you are
> so
> >>> flattered that they asked for your opinion, but go along with their
> attempt
> >>> to reduce civil society to a few privileged voices, you are completely
> >>> missing the point.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:05 PM, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Following the one in Nairobi last year, European commission and
> European
> >>> Parliament
> >>>
> >>> people want to hold an informal meeting with civil society members and
> >>>
> >>> asked Wolfgang to coordinate.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Since this is an informal meeting with limited space, we need to find
> and
> >>> decide who will
> >>>
> >>> be there. Around  5 or 6 people, max.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ____________________________________________________________
> >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> >>> To be removed from the list, visit:
> >>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >>>
> >>> For all other list information and functions, see:
> >>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> >>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >>>
> >>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> --
> >> I speak only for myself. Sometimes I do not even agree with myself. Keep
> >> it in mind.
> >> Twitter: @andreaglorioso
> >> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/andrea.glorioso
> >> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=1749288&trk=tab_pro
> >>
> >> ____________________________________________________________
> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> >> To be removed from the list, visit:
> >>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >>
> >> For all other list information and functions, see:
> >>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >>
> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >>
> >>
> >> ____________________________________________________________
> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> >> To be removed from the list, visit:
> >>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >>
> >> For all other list information and functions, see:
> >>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >>
> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >>
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> > To be removed from the list, visit:
> >      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >
> > For all other list information and functions, see:
> >      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >      http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >
> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >
>
>
>
> --
>                      >> Izumi Aizu <<
> Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
> Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
> Japan
> www.anr.org
>
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From fouadbajwa at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 11:20:31 2012
From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Bajwa)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 20:20:31 +0500
Subject: [governance] Reasons for 'Internet Traffic Intelligence and
 Surveillance" products
In-Reply-To: <A29D6FFA-871A-457D-A7C1-16B47B86E985@virtualized.org>
References: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD227875B@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
	<CAHuaJtPHgcbkiMF-=CnuSbdw1EkYGWhTEzz3rWhaKbn4tFmX9A@mail.gmail.com>
	<A29D6FFA-871A-457D-A7C1-16B47B86E985@virtualized.org>
Message-ID: <CAHuaJtPZZb1WTbTshiyKB8ouhF5nErSK4e+BoZ6RydzxHmzdLw@mail.gmail.com>

Where did ICANN come in to the discussion?

Fouad Bajwa
On Nov 2, 2012 7:03 PM, "David Conrad" <drc at virtualized.org> wrote:

> Fouad,
>
> Your initial note asserted that the US government's role in Internet
> Resource Management was somehow responsible for folks like PCTL purchasing
> Internet Traffic and Surveillance systems created by US (or Canada) based
> companies. I'm still trying to understand the relationship.
>
> The use of DPI tools to censor the Internet appears to me to be largely
> orthogonal Internet Resource Management, regardless of who is in charge. Do
> you believe that if (say) the ITU globally or alternatively each government
> on the planet were responsible for Internet Resource Management in their
> country, that this would somehow lessen the demand for Internet Traffic
> Intelligence and Surveillance products?
>
> Or are you saying that because the US has an oversight role of ICANN to
> ensure some level of accountability in ICANN operations, US (and Canada?)
> based companies should not be allowed to create products that meet the
> demand for Internet Traffic Intelligence and Surveillance?
>
> Thanks,
> -drc
>
> On Nov 1, 2012, at 11:32 PM, Fouad Bajwa <fouadbajwa at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> My previous comments are based upon facts that I hear occasionally quoted
> during US leadership statements on online FoE and protection of pluralism
> and at the end of the day companies from that country are on the forefront
> of bidding and deploying traffic intelligence  Okay, these companies
> operate in a free market environment but then the credibility of such
> statements collapse amidst surveillance cooperation even if its done by
> companies from that region.
>
>
> I have always felt that the US has mixed market dynamics and regulators do
> keep an eye and do not tend to overlook the fact that their companies do
> have country level offices that can independently participate in government
> contracts outside the US.
>
> I will have to differ here that devoted support for US and Canadian
> traffic monitoring and intelligence companies that they are not involved in
> censorship because I have witnessed credible information.
>
> I must point out that your defense for the Northern American companies
> argument depicts the traditional free market support whereas I am inclined
> to believe that its a mixed market approach because the government
> diplomacy in terms of Foreign Policy and economic drives cannot be
> completely ignorant of a key component of its globalization agenda/strategy
> of which Internet is an important tool and catalyst of a global world
> order. Anyways, these are from the airport, do I see you in Baku?
>
> Best
>
> Fouad
>
> On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 3:32 AM, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu> wrote:
>
>>  Fouad:****
>>
>> Your answer to David’s question reveals a lot of confusion, in my
>> opinion. ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Markets respond to supply and demand. It is a simple and predictable
>> feature of markets that businesses (whether in the US or anywhere else)
>> will try to sell their products to people who want to use them and have the
>> money to pay for them. So we have a shared responsibility: for DPI and
>> related surveillance and content-filtering equipment, the *demand* is
>> created by authoritarian governments who want to control the Internet in
>> their country, while the *supply* comes from profit-motivated businesses
>> who can meet that demand. Many of these suppliers, by the way, are NOT from
>> the U.S.; many are from Europe, and some are from China or elsewhere. ***
>> *
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Don’t blame the US advocates of FoE for that. ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> As for the “dual FoE internet policy,” well, it’s time to grow up and
>> look at states, including the US state, as self-interested actors and stop
>> believing in the fairy tale that they magically embody the public interest
>> or the people’s will. It’s also time for you to recognize that nearly all
>> states have contradictory political pressures on them; just as the
>> Pakistani govt doesn’t want to alienate the hardcore islamists while
>> continuing to receive $$$ from the US, the US govt (specifically, the State
>> Dept) wants to promote internet freedom while some Congressional pressures
>> want us to withhold nearly all technology from “enemies” or repressive
>> states, and some business-centric agencies and congresspeople want us to
>> expand our market share in foreign countries’ technology purchases by
>> selling them more equipment.  ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:
>> governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] *On Behalf Of *Fouad Bajwa
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 30, 2012 7:14 PM
>> *To:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Suresh Ramasubramanian
>> *Cc:* David Conrad
>> *Subject:* Re: Reasons for 'Internet Traffic Intelligence and
>> Surveillance" products (was Re: [governance] speaker at the opening
>> ceremony?)****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Let me try to answer the confusion quickly while I am multitasking
>> between packing and documentation:****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I'd rather remain implicit. I am sure many of my colleagues from
>> developing countries can list a long list of issues that their countries
>> are concerned about and may be sharing during the WCIT meet and that this
>> list has been discussing in numerous ITR related threads etc. at the end of
>> the day it is more or less around US centric IRM and the challenges of
>> censorship and content filtering. Its not just about iran, russia and
>> china, there are more than a hundred other countries out of which a
>> majority are developing regions and imposing various forms of censorship.
>> ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> My confusion stands around the dual FoE internet policy of these
>> countries that requires some responsibility. Okay, its not only
>> boeing/narus, cisco or sandvine selling censorship but we have huwae in the
>> league of traffic intelligence and DPI as well. Alright, it may be business
>> as usual but this is giving some countries to show and tell the amazing
>> censorship they have implemented. ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Yes there are jurisdiction issues at play  here but then some countries
>> believe in resorting to censorship, blocking and filtering.****
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:13 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <
>> suresh at hserus.net> wrote:****
>>
>> Or is it fouads argument that sandvine gear was bought specifically to
>> censor any discussion of the cir process?  I don't quite understand the
>> logic here either
>>
>> --srs (htc one x)****
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Reply message -----
>> From: "David Conrad" <drc at virtualized.org>
>> To: <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
>> Subject: Reasons for 'Internet Traffic Intelligence and Surveillance"
>> products (was Re: [governance] speaker at the opening ceremony?)
>> Date: Tue, Oct 30, 2012 9:01 PM****
>>
>>
>> Fouad,
>>
>> On Oct 30, 2012, at 6:20 AM, Fouad Bajwa <fouadbajwa at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > The fact remains that as US-Centric Internet Resource Management
>> remains, countries have been sold various Internet Traffic Intelligence and
>> Surveillance systems by US and Canadian companies. An evident example is
>> the use of Sandvine traffic intelligence by PTCL Pakistan Telecommunication
>> Company Limited. PTCL is the largest ICT/Telecom provider in the country
>> and manages the Internet trunks.****
>>
>> I'm curious: how does "US-Centric Internet Resource Management" cause
>> PTCL (et al) to purchase products like Sandvine's?****
>>
>> Thanks,
>> -drc
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t****
>>
>>
>>
>> ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> --
>> Regards.
>> --------------------------
>> Foo****
>>
>
>
>
>  ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
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> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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> To be removed from the list, visit:
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>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
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>
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From iza at anr.org  Fri Nov  2 11:20:01 2012
From: iza at anr.org (Izumi AIZU)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 00:20:01 +0900
Subject: [governance] Fwd: IGF 2012 - Bilateral meeting
In-Reply-To: <CALCecM97OrrPg_T8enhW0KhNGqXVjYD=xnotBEAgc=0x_AWhQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <F0E565BA8D19DF43BA6164890C258431043FAF@S-DC-ESTG04-B.net1.cec.eu.int>
 <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3EC@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
 <CA+YNoKj5zX8SLoVYjV0zHX5Jew20R2fvg_WNGFgvE8hxAfHh0w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHuaJtOPZr7YkE43npAs=iNkMUh66v031Oo6Gc0rkBLk1mhmCA@mail.gmail.com>
 <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD22786E4@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
 <CAOLD2+Zkj3MC6Ou1CK39rN7yozvXLw=0vToieZrVMvA3vERiLw@mail.gmail.com>
 <A5CA09C5-EF82-4828-9FAC-7B4C2574ADF2@hserus.net> <CALCecM8oY458V1Xj=jmzkx9oCgsvqvbr0VVMb+ocJjZf9TW_CQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+YNoKhcxWo=agMq5dCoE90UDp=fYZtPcTHMgT03Czg-f882Hg@mail.gmail.com> <CALCecM97OrrPg_T8enhW0KhNGqXVjYD=xnotBEAgc=0x_AWhQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+YNoKj7HnSFuECQHyHA-=xY3_pzdvjnYpQTwhmNEygZrHSWXg@mail.gmail.com>

I wish we could HUG online!

izumi


2012/11/3 Ginger Paque <gpaque at gmail.com>:
> Izumi said:
> best, and see you there for those coming, and see you there online
> participant
> though they are labeled "remote", let's feel closer together.
>
> GINGER: Beautiful, Izumi -- I don't think it could be said any better.
> See you all online--I do hope we will form a Skype group for common
> 'corridor conversations'.
>
>
>
> Ginger (Virginia) Paque
>
> VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu
> Diplo Foundation
> Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme
> www.diplomacy.edu/ig
>
>
>
>
> On 2 November 2012 10:02, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>> So far some 12 people on this list indicated that they want to join
>> this meeting.
>>
>> Given limited resources myself can spend for the remaining hour before
>> taking
>> flight to Baku, only 13 hours from now including my sleep tonight, I
>> am not going
>> to try to find any large room for this meeting. If someone on this list
>> takes
>> the responsibility, negotiate with either the local host or IGF
>> secretariat, that will
>> be great.
>>
>> Otherwise, I still suggest that we will be around six people. I feel at
>> least
>> one of co-cos should be there even this is an informal meeting. The leaves
>> five. I like to consult with my colleague Sala to make the final
>> selection,
>> as coordinators duty. Sorry guys, but sometimes we need to make a
>> practical choice in an imperfect manner.
>>
>> I also understand that the organizer is European Commission and the
>> European
>> Parliament, not us, we are just invited as guests, and they do have other
>> channels for civil societies, NGOs, etc, outside IGC, which is, for me
>> perfectly
>> fine.
>>
>> The meeting is scheduled on Nov 8, but they do not plan to announce this
>> publicly. I am aware the even putting this on to his list has certain
>> announcement
>> effect, but, in the interest of openness, at least within IGC, I put it
>> here.
>>
>> Similar meeting happened in Kenya last year with US government. We so far
>> have received no invitation from USG or any other parties, but as far as I
>> am
>> concerned, being the servant of the IGC, I am happy to liaise, or
>> coordinate.
>>
>> I love the diversity, different ideas and positions, and am still
>> happy to coordinate.
>> But I also ask you guys to sometimes share the responsibility and burdens
>> collectively, or at least understand these sometimes delicate and
>> difficult limitations
>> we all have.
>>
>> best, and see you there for those coming, and see you there online
>> participant
>> though they are labeled "remote", let's feel closer together.
>>
>> izumi
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2012/11/2 Ginger Paque <gpaque at gmail.com>:
>> > Andrea, thanks for your input. I the strong response to this invitation
>> > can
>> > be seen as giving importance to this exchange. I understood the meeting
>> > to
>> > be a 'sampling' for idea exchange, not a 'representation'. Possibly this
>> > kind of invitation could be made more informally (not on the list) to
>> > avoid
>> > misunderstanding and overwhelming requests to attend. If anything, I
>> > think
>> > tension has been fostered by good intentions to be inclusive in what is
>> > meant to be a small, diverse brainstorming session.
>> >
>> > Perhaps we should pick up on Andrea's suggestion to request a larger
>> > meeting
>> > for brainstorming? Positive energy for communication is important.
>> >
>> > Safe travels,
>> > Ginger
>> >
>> > Ginger (Virginia) Paque
>> >
>> > VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu
>> > Diplo Foundation
>> > Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme
>> > www.diplomacy.edu/ig
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 2 November 2012 02:30, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Sauces for the goose, and for the gander :)
>> >>
>> >> Very well put - and I share your skepticism about "civil society
>> >> consensus", informed consensus at any rate, for an audience that is
>> >> larger
>> >> than the typical igov involved civ soc organization crowd
>> >>
>> >> --srs (iPad)
>> >>
>> >> On 02-Nov-2012, at 12:02, Andrea Glorioso <andrea at digitalpolicy.it>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> (Speaking with the "European Commission official" hat here).
>> >>
>> >> Let's not blow things out of proportion. There is no attempt at
>> >> "imposing
>> >> false notions of representations" for the simple reason that in the
>> >> dark
>> >> corridors of Mordor, I mean Brussels, we are perfectly aware "civil
>> >> society"
>> >> is a rather fluid concept and it is difficult to identify
>> >> "spokesperson" or
>> >> "representatives" (which, incidentally, also means that when any of the
>> >> various persons or organisations in the "civil society" galaxy claims
>> >> to
>> >> "represent" anything, our usual reaction is one of skepticism. You
>> >> can't
>> >> have it both ways I guess).
>> >>
>> >> Frankly,anyway, I do not quite understand why it is ok for the IGC to
>> >> have
>> >> "co-coordinators" which de facto speak on behalf of the IGC in several
>> >> occasions, and for members of this list to choose a speaker that will
>> >> de
>> >> facto represent them at the opening session (if I understood well); but
>> >> when
>> >> other parties ask whether there are NGOs et al that would like to have
>> >> an
>> >> informal chat with people from the European Commission and the European
>> >> Parliament, all hell breaks loose.
>> >>
>> >> But I guess that since the EU's final plan is to take over the Internet
>> >> and impose automatic translation of all websites in 22 languages, we
>> >> can't
>> >> possibly be trusted.
>> >>
>> >> More practically, if you can find a venue large enough for an open
>> >> meeting
>> >> (we couldn't) why not propose a larger set-up?
>> >>
>> >> Best,
>> >>
>> >> Andrea
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:04 PM, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> 5 or 6 people, max? Ridiculous. This is an inherently bad,
>> >>> undemocratic
>> >>> method.
>> >>>
>> >>> Governments such as the EC try to impose false notions of
>> >>> “representation” on civil society, by seeking a few “spokespersons” or
>> >>> “representatives.” Their only real object is to make their job easier.
>> >>> We
>> >>> should decline to cooperate with this political version of artificial
>> >>> scarcity, and just insist on an open meeting. I am serious. If you are
>> >>> so
>> >>> flattered that they asked for your opinion, but go along with their
>> >>> attempt
>> >>> to reduce civil society to a few privileged voices, you are completely
>> >>> missing the point.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:05 PM, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Following the one in Nairobi last year, European commission and
>> >>> European
>> >>> Parliament
>> >>>
>> >>> people want to hold an informal meeting with civil society members and
>> >>>
>> >>> asked Wolfgang to coordinate.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Since this is an informal meeting with limited space, we need to find
>> >>> and
>> >>> decide who will
>> >>>
>> >>> be there. Around  5 or 6 people, max.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ____________________________________________________________
>> >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>> >>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> >>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>> >>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> >>>
>> >>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>> >>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> >>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>> >>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> >>>
>> >>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> I speak only for myself. Sometimes I do not even agree with myself.
>> >> Keep
>> >> it in mind.
>> >> Twitter: @andreaglorioso
>> >> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/andrea.glorioso
>> >> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=1749288&trk=tab_pro
>> >>
>> >> ____________________________________________________________
>> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>> >>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> >> To be removed from the list, visit:
>> >>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> >>
>> >> For all other list information and functions, see:
>> >>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>> >>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> >>
>> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ____________________________________________________________
>> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>> >>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> >> To be removed from the list, visit:
>> >>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> >>
>> >> For all other list information and functions, see:
>> >>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>> >>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> >>
>> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > ____________________________________________________________
>> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>> >      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> > To be removed from the list, visit:
>> >      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> >
>> > For all other list information and functions, see:
>> >      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>> >      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> >
>> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>                      >> Izumi Aizu <<
>> Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
>> Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
>> Japan
>> www.anr.org
>
>



--
                     >> Izumi Aizu <<
Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
Japan
www.anr.org

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From drc at virtualized.org  Fri Nov  2 11:32:06 2012
From: drc at virtualized.org (David Conrad)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 08:32:06 -0700
Subject: [governance] Reasons for 'Internet Traffic Intelligence and
 Surveillance" products
In-Reply-To: <CAHuaJtPZZb1WTbTshiyKB8ouhF5nErSK4e+BoZ6RydzxHmzdLw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD227875B@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <CAHuaJtPHgcbkiMF-=CnuSbdw1EkYGWhTEzz3rWhaKbn4tFmX9A@mail.gmail.com> <A29D6FFA-871A-457D-A7C1-16B47B86E985@virtualized.org> <CAHuaJtPZZb1WTbTshiyKB8ouhF5nErSK4e+BoZ6RydzxHmzdLw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D4BA1F99-8D87-46A1-AD44-E1221B1E8ED6@virtualized.org>

Fouad,

As far as I am aware, the US government's role in Internet Resource Management is via its oversight of ICANN. Perhaps this is where the disconnect occurs: what is your view of "US-centric Internet Resource Management"?

Thanks,
-drc

On Nov 2, 2012, at 8:20 AM, Fouad Bajwa <fouadbajwa at gmail.com> wrote:

> Where did ICANN come in to the discussion?
> 
> Fouad Bajwa
> 
> On Nov 2, 2012 7:03 PM, "David Conrad" <drc at virtualized.org> wrote:
> Fouad,
> 
> Your initial note asserted that the US government's role in Internet Resource Management was somehow responsible for folks like PCTL purchasing Internet Traffic and Surveillance systems created by US (or Canada) based companies. I'm still trying to understand the relationship.
> 
> The use of DPI tools to censor the Internet appears to me to be largely orthogonal Internet Resource Management, regardless of who is in charge. Do you believe that if (say) the ITU globally or alternatively each government on the planet were responsible for Internet Resource Management in their country, that this would somehow lessen the demand for Internet Traffic Intelligence and Surveillance products?
> 
> Or are you saying that because the US has an oversight role of ICANN to ensure some level of accountability in ICANN operations, US (and Canada?) based companies should not be allowed to create products that meet the demand for Internet Traffic Intelligence and Surveillance?
> 
> Thanks,
> -drc
> 
> On Nov 1, 2012, at 11:32 PM, Fouad Bajwa <fouadbajwa at gmail.com> wrote:
>> My previous comments are based upon facts that I hear occasionally quoted during US leadership statements on online FoE and protection of pluralism and at the end of the day companies from that country are on the forefront of bidding and deploying traffic intelligence  Okay, these companies operate in a free market environment but then the credibility of such statements collapse amidst surveillance cooperation even if its done by companies from that region.
>> 
>> I have always felt that the US has mixed market dynamics and regulators do keep an eye and do not tend to overlook the fact that their companies do have country level offices that can independently participate in government contracts outside the US.
>> 
>> I will have to differ here that devoted support for US and Canadian traffic monitoring and intelligence companies that they are not involved in censorship because I have witnessed credible information. 
>> 
>> I must point out that your defense for the Northern American companies argument depicts the traditional free market support whereas I am inclined to believe that its a mixed market approach because the government diplomacy in terms of Foreign Policy and economic drives cannot be completely ignorant of a key component of its globalization agenda/strategy of which Internet is an important tool and catalyst of a global world order. Anyways, these are from the airport, do I see you in Baku? 
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Fouad
>> 
>> On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 3:32 AM, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu> wrote:
>> Fouad:
>> 
>> Your answer to David’s question reveals a lot of confusion, in my opinion.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Markets respond to supply and demand. It is a simple and predictable feature of markets that businesses (whether in the US or anywhere else) will try to sell their products to people who want to use them and have the money to pay for them. So we have a shared responsibility: for DPI and related surveillance and content-filtering equipment, the demand is created by authoritarian governments who want to control the Internet in their country, while the supply comes from profit-motivated businesses who can meet that demand. Many of these suppliers, by the way, are NOT from the U.S.; many are from Europe, and some are from China or elsewhere.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Don’t blame the US advocates of FoE for that.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> As for the “dual FoE internet policy,” well, it’s time to grow up and look at states, including the US state, as self-interested actors and stop believing in the fairy tale that they magically embody the public interest or the people’s will. It’s also time for you to recognize that nearly all states have contradictory political pressures on them; just as the Pakistani govt doesn’t want to alienate the hardcore islamists while continuing to receive $$$ from the US, the US govt (specifically, the State Dept) wants to promote internet freedom while some Congressional pressures want us to withhold nearly all technology from “enemies” or repressive states, and some business-centric agencies and congresspeople want us to expand our market share in foreign countries’ technology purchases by selling them more equipment.  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Fouad Bajwa
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 7:14 PM
>> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Suresh Ramasubramanian
>> Cc: David Conrad
>> Subject: Re: Reasons for 'Internet Traffic Intelligence and Surveillance" products (was Re: [governance] speaker at the opening ceremony?)
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Let me try to answer the confusion quickly while I am multitasking between packing and documentation:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I'd rather remain implicit. I am sure many of my colleagues from developing countries can list a long list of issues that their countries are concerned about and may be sharing during the WCIT meet and that this list has been discussing in numerous ITR related threads etc. at the end of the day it is more or less around US centric IRM and the challenges of censorship and content filtering. Its not just about iran, russia and china, there are more than a hundred other countries out of which a majority are developing regions and imposing various forms of censorship.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> My confusion stands around the dual FoE internet policy of these countries that requires some responsibility. Okay, its not only boeing/narus, cisco or sandvine selling censorship but we have huwae in the league of traffic intelligence and DPI as well. Alright, it may be business as usual but this is giving some countries to show and tell the amazing censorship they have implemented. 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Yes there are jurisdiction issues at play  here but then some countries believe in resorting to censorship, blocking and filtering.
>> 
>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:13 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Or is it fouads argument that sandvine gear was bought specifically to censor any discussion of the cir process?  I don't quite understand the logic here either
>> 
>> --srs (htc one x)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Reply message -----
>> From: "David Conrad" <drc at virtualized.org>
>> To: <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
>> Subject: Reasons for 'Internet Traffic Intelligence and Surveillance" products (was Re: [governance] speaker at the opening ceremony?)
>> Date: Tue, Oct 30, 2012 9:01 PM
>> 
>> 
>> Fouad,
>> 
>> On Oct 30, 2012, at 6:20 AM, Fouad Bajwa <fouadbajwa at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > The fact remains that as US-Centric Internet Resource Management remains, countries have been sold various Internet Traffic Intelligence and Surveillance systems by US and Canadian companies. An evident example is the use of Sandvine traffic intelligence by PTCL Pakistan Telecommunication Company Limited. PTCL is the largest ICT/Telecom provider in the country and manages the Internet trunks.
>> 
>> I'm curious: how does "US-Centric Internet Resource Management" cause PTCL (et al) to purchase products like Sandvine's?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> -drc
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> 
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> 
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> -- 
>> Regards.
>> --------------------------
>> Foo
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> 
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
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>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> 
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
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From nashton at ccianet.org  Fri Nov  2 13:19:11 2012
From: nashton at ccianet.org (Nick Ashton-Hart)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 18:19:11 +0100
Subject: [governance] Re: Reasons for 'Internet Traffic Intelligence and
 Surveillance" products
In-Reply-To: <CAHuaJtPHgcbkiMF-=CnuSbdw1EkYGWhTEzz3rWhaKbn4tFmX9A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD227875B@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <CAHuaJtPHgcbkiMF-=CnuSbdw1EkYGWhTEzz3rWhaKbn4tFmX9A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7512503234645386515@unknownmsgid>

Dear Fouad,

Whatever kind of market economy the US has (or any other for that matter
does not alter The fundamental point that a demand for a product will find
someone somewhere ready to supply it. While it is important to deal with
the supply, you will never completely eliminate it until you deal with the
demand.

Sent from one of my handheld thingies, please forgive linguistic mangling

On 2 Nov 2012, at 07:33, Fouad Bajwa <fouadbajwa at gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Milton,

Your comments are welcome as always! One has to add the element of
confusion not to be re-quoted intentionally or unintentionally where such
authoritarian regimes are at play and one may be prone to concerns!

My previous comments are based upon facts that I hear occasionally quoted
during US leadership statements on online FoE and protection of pluralism
and at the end of the day companies from that country are on the forefront
of bidding and deploying traffic intelligence  Okay, these companies
operate in a free market environment but then the credibility of such
statements collapse amidst surveillance cooperation even if its done by
companies from that region.

I have always felt that the US has mixed market dynamics and regulators do
keep an eye and do not tend to overlook the fact that their companies do
have country level offices that can independently participate in government
contracts outside the US.

I will have to differ here that devoted support for US and Canadian traffic
monitoring and intelligence companies that they are not involved in
censorship because I have witnessed credible information.

I must point out that your defense for the Northern American companies
argument depicts the traditional free market support whereas I am inclined
to believe that its a mixed market approach because the government
diplomacy in terms of Foreign Policy and economic drives cannot be
completely ignorant of a key component of its globalization agenda/strategy
of which Internet is an important tool and catalyst of a global world
order. Anyways, these are from the airport, do I see you in Baku?

Best

Fouad

On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 3:32 AM, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu> wrote:

>  Fouad:****
>
> Your answer to David’s question reveals a lot of confusion, in my opinion.
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> Markets respond to supply and demand. It is a simple and predictable
> feature of markets that businesses (whether in the US or anywhere else)
> will try to sell their products to people who want to use them and have the
> money to pay for them. So we have a shared responsibility: for DPI and
> related surveillance and content-filtering equipment, the *demand* is
> created by authoritarian governments who want to control the Internet in
> their country, while the *supply* comes from profit-motivated businesses
> who can meet that demand. Many of these suppliers, by the way, are NOT from
> the U.S.; many are from Europe, and some are from China or elsewhere. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Don’t blame the US advocates of FoE for that. ****
>
> ** **
>
> As for the “dual FoE internet policy,” well, it’s time to grow up and look
> at states, including the US state, as self-interested actors and stop
> believing in the fairy tale that they magically embody the public interest
> or the people’s will. It’s also time for you to recognize that nearly all
> states have contradictory political pressures on them; just as the
> Pakistani govt doesn’t want to alienate the hardcore islamists while
> continuing to receive $$$ from the US, the US govt (specifically, the State
> Dept) wants to promote internet freedom while some Congressional pressures
> want us to withhold nearly all technology from “enemies” or repressive
> states, and some business-centric agencies and congresspeople want us to
> expand our market share in foreign countries’ technology purchases by
> selling them more equipment.  ****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:
> governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] *On Behalf Of *Fouad Bajwa
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 30, 2012 7:14 PM
> *To:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Suresh Ramasubramanian
> *Cc:* David Conrad
> *Subject:* Re: Reasons for 'Internet Traffic Intelligence and
> Surveillance" products (was Re: [governance] speaker at the opening
> ceremony?)****
>
> ** **
>
> Let me try to answer the confusion quickly while I am multitasking between
> packing and documentation:****
>
> ** **
>
> I'd rather remain implicit. I am sure many of my colleagues from
> developing countries can list a long list of issues that their countries
> are concerned about and may be sharing during the WCIT meet and that this
> list has been discussing in numerous ITR related threads etc. at the end of
> the day it is more or less around US centric IRM and the challenges of
> censorship and content filtering. Its not just about iran, russia and
> china, there are more than a hundred other countries out of which a
> majority are developing regions and imposing various forms of censorship.*
> ***
>
> ** **
>
> My confusion stands around the dual FoE internet policy of these countries
> that requires some responsibility. Okay, its not only boeing/narus, cisco
> or sandvine selling censorship but we have huwae in the league of
> traffic intelligence and DPI as well. Alright, it may be business as usual
> but this is giving some countries to show and tell the amazing censorship
> they have implemented. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Yes there are jurisdiction issues at play  here but then some countries
> believe in resorting to censorship, blocking and filtering.****
>
> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:13 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net>
> wrote:****
>
> Or is it fouads argument that sandvine gear was bought specifically to
> censor any discussion of the cir process?  I don't quite understand the
> logic here either
>
> --srs (htc one x)****
>
>
>
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "David Conrad" <drc at virtualized.org>
> To: <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
> Subject: Reasons for 'Internet Traffic Intelligence and Surveillance"
> products (was Re: [governance] speaker at the opening ceremony?)
> Date: Tue, Oct 30, 2012 9:01 PM****
>
>
> Fouad,
>
> On Oct 30, 2012, at 6:20 AM, Fouad Bajwa <fouadbajwa at gmail.com> wrote:
> > The fact remains that as US-Centric Internet Resource Management
> remains, countries have been sold various Internet Traffic Intelligence and
> Surveillance systems by US and Canadian companies. An evident example is
> the use of Sandvine traffic intelligence by PTCL Pakistan Telecommunication
> Company Limited. PTCL is the largest ICT/Telecom provider in the country
> and manages the Internet trunks.****
>
> I'm curious: how does "US-Centric Internet Resource Management" cause PTCL
> (et al) to purchase products like Sandvine's?****
>
> Thanks,
> -drc
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t****
>
>
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> --
> Regards.
> --------------------------
> Foo****
>




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From kabani.asif at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 13:41:37 2012
From: kabani.asif at gmail.com (Kabani)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 22:41:37 +0500
Subject: [governance] Fwd: IGF 2012 - Bilateral meeting
In-Reply-To: <CA+YNoKhcxWo=agMq5dCoE90UDp=fYZtPcTHMgT03Czg-f882Hg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <F0E565BA8D19DF43BA6164890C258431043FAF@S-DC-ESTG04-B.net1.cec.eu.int>
 <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD3EC@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
 <CA+YNoKj5zX8SLoVYjV0zHX5Jew20R2fvg_WNGFgvE8hxAfHh0w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHuaJtOPZr7YkE43npAs=iNkMUh66v031Oo6Gc0rkBLk1mhmCA@mail.gmail.com>
 <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD22786E4@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
 <CAOLD2+Zkj3MC6Ou1CK39rN7yozvXLw=0vToieZrVMvA3vERiLw@mail.gmail.com>
 <A5CA09C5-EF82-4828-9FAC-7B4C2574ADF2@hserus.net> <CALCecM8oY458V1Xj=jmzkx9oCgsvqvbr0VVMb+ocJjZf9TW_CQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+YNoKhcxWo=agMq5dCoE90UDp=fYZtPcTHMgT03Czg-f882Hg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOzvoR0YO53tH2pYV=mpZ7yWs4opKEL7CafiCMY1qhWVps0UDA@mail.gmail.com>

+2 add myself and Maliha

On 2 November 2012 20:02, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:

> Hi,
> So far some 12 people on this list indicated that they want to join
> this meeting.
>
> Given limited resources myself can spend for the remaining hour before
> taking
> flight to Baku, only 13 hours from now including my sleep tonight, I
> am not going
> to try to find any large room for this meeting. If someone on this list
> takes
> the responsibility, negotiate with either the local host or IGF
> secretariat, that will
> be great.
>
> Otherwise, I still suggest that we will be around six people. I feel at
> least
> one of co-cos should be there even this is an informal meeting. The leaves
> five. I like to consult with my colleague Sala to make the final selection,
> as coordinators duty. Sorry guys, but sometimes we need to make a
> practical choice in an imperfect manner.
>
> I also understand that the organizer is European Commission and the
> European
> Parliament, not us, we are just invited as guests, and they do have other
> channels for civil societies, NGOs, etc, outside IGC, which is, for me
> perfectly
> fine.
>
> The meeting is scheduled on Nov 8, but they do not plan to announce this
> publicly. I am aware the even putting this on to his list has certain
> announcement
> effect, but, in the interest of openness, at least within IGC, I put it
> here.
>
> Similar meeting happened in Kenya last year with US government. We so far
> have received no invitation from USG or any other parties, but as far as I
> am
> concerned, being the servant of the IGC, I am happy to liaise, or
> coordinate.
>
> I love the diversity, different ideas and positions, and am still
> happy to coordinate.
> But I also ask you guys to sometimes share the responsibility and burdens
> collectively, or at least understand these sometimes delicate and
> difficult limitations
> we all have.
>
> best, and see you there for those coming, and see you there online
> participant
> though they are labeled "remote", let's feel closer together.
>
> izumi
>
>
>
>
>
> 2012/11/2 Ginger Paque <gpaque at gmail.com>:
> > Andrea, thanks for your input. I the strong response to this invitation
> can
> > be seen as giving importance to this exchange. I understood the meeting
> to
> > be a 'sampling' for idea exchange, not a 'representation'. Possibly this
> > kind of invitation could be made more informally (not on the list) to
> avoid
> > misunderstanding and overwhelming requests to attend. If anything, I
> think
> > tension has been fostered by good intentions to be inclusive in what is
> > meant to be a small, diverse brainstorming session.
> >
> > Perhaps we should pick up on Andrea's suggestion to request a larger
> meeting
> > for brainstorming? Positive energy for communication is important.
> >
> > Safe travels,
> > Ginger
> >
> > Ginger (Virginia) Paque
> >
> > VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu
> > Diplo Foundation
> > Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme
> > www.diplomacy.edu/ig
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2 November 2012 02:30, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Sauces for the goose, and for the gander :)
> >>
> >> Very well put - and I share your skepticism about "civil society
> >> consensus", informed consensus at any rate, for an audience that is
> larger
> >> than the typical igov involved civ soc organization crowd
> >>
> >> --srs (iPad)
> >>
> >> On 02-Nov-2012, at 12:02, Andrea Glorioso <andrea at digitalpolicy.it>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> (Speaking with the "European Commission official" hat here).
> >>
> >> Let's not blow things out of proportion. There is no attempt at
> "imposing
> >> false notions of representations" for the simple reason that in the dark
> >> corridors of Mordor, I mean Brussels, we are perfectly aware "civil
> society"
> >> is a rather fluid concept and it is difficult to identify
> "spokesperson" or
> >> "representatives" (which, incidentally, also means that when any of the
> >> various persons or organisations in the "civil society" galaxy claims to
> >> "represent" anything, our usual reaction is one of skepticism. You can't
> >> have it both ways I guess).
> >>
> >> Frankly,anyway, I do not quite understand why it is ok for the IGC to
> have
> >> "co-coordinators" which de facto speak on behalf of the IGC in several
> >> occasions, and for members of this list to choose a speaker that will de
> >> facto represent them at the opening session (if I understood well); but
> when
> >> other parties ask whether there are NGOs et al that would like to have
> an
> >> informal chat with people from the European Commission and the European
> >> Parliament, all hell breaks loose.
> >>
> >> But I guess that since the EU's final plan is to take over the Internet
> >> and impose automatic translation of all websites in 22 languages, we
> can't
> >> possibly be trusted.
> >>
> >> More practically, if you can find a venue large enough for an open
> meeting
> >> (we couldn't) why not propose a larger set-up?
> >>
> >> Best,
> >>
> >> Andrea
> >>
> >> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:04 PM, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> 5 or 6 people, max? Ridiculous. This is an inherently bad, undemocratic
> >>> method.
> >>>
> >>> Governments such as the EC try to impose false notions of
> >>> “representation” on civil society, by seeking a few “spokespersons” or
> >>> “representatives.” Their only real object is to make their job easier.
> We
> >>> should decline to cooperate with this political version of artificial
> >>> scarcity, and just insist on an open meeting. I am serious. If you are
> so
> >>> flattered that they asked for your opinion, but go along with their
> attempt
> >>> to reduce civil society to a few privileged voices, you are completely
> >>> missing the point.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:05 PM, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Following the one in Nairobi last year, European commission and
> European
> >>> Parliament
> >>>
> >>> people want to hold an informal meeting with civil society members and
> >>>
> >>> asked Wolfgang to coordinate.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Since this is an informal meeting with limited space, we need to find
> and
> >>> decide who will
> >>>
> >>> be there. Around  5 or 6 people, max.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ____________________________________________________________
> >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> >>> To be removed from the list, visit:
> >>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >>>
> >>> For all other list information and functions, see:
> >>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> >>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >>>
> >>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> --
> >> I speak only for myself. Sometimes I do not even agree with myself. Keep
> >> it in mind.
> >> Twitter: @andreaglorioso
> >> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/andrea.glorioso
> >> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=1749288&trk=tab_pro
> >>
> >> ____________________________________________________________
> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> >> To be removed from the list, visit:
> >>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >>
> >> For all other list information and functions, see:
> >>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >>
> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >>
> >>
> >> ____________________________________________________________
> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> >> To be removed from the list, visit:
> >>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >>
> >> For all other list information and functions, see:
> >>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> >> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >>
> >> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >>
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> > To be removed from the list, visit:
> >      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >
> > For all other list information and functions, see:
> >      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >      http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >
> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >
>
>
>
> --
>                      >> Izumi Aizu <<
> Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
> Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
> Japan
> www.anr.org
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
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> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
*Follow me @*
<https://www.facebook.com/kabani.asif>
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* **Before you print think about the** **ENVIRONMENT*
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From katycarvt at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 16:09:58 2012
From: katycarvt at gmail.com (Katy P)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 13:09:58 -0700
Subject: [governance] From Twitter
Message-ID: <CADBMUMHYv9y0bZ1HeuG5OwezqhbviUP4dWU_C7t55SQNwq3Gow@mail.gmail.com>

swdp: Van driver apparently has orders not to let us out to get out of the
van and in a local cab. #IGF12 #problems withconferencesindictatorships

Original Tweet: http://twitter.com/swdp/status/264412914990059520

Sent via TweetDeck (www.tweetdeck.com)
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From fouadbajwa at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 21:34:56 2012
From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Bajwa)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 06:34:56 +0500
Subject: [governance] Re: Reasons for 'Internet Traffic Intelligence and
 Surveillance" products
In-Reply-To: <7512503234645386515@unknownmsgid>
References: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD227875B@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
	<CAHuaJtPHgcbkiMF-=CnuSbdw1EkYGWhTEzz3rWhaKbn4tFmX9A@mail.gmail.com>
	<7512503234645386515@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <CAHuaJtN=T77Ryhyh4s79kbN78iMOx3+9UevNYvTu9o181iZuBg@mail.gmail.com>

A very valid point Nick. Equal footing will always be a challenge to
counter such.

Foo
On Nov 2, 2012 9:19 PM, "Nick Ashton-Hart" <nashton at ccianet.org> wrote:

> Dear Fouad,
>
> Whatever kind of market economy the US has (or any other for that matter
> does not alter The fundamental point that a demand for a product will find
> someone somewhere ready to supply it. While it is important to deal with
> the supply, you will never completely eliminate it until you deal with the
> demand.
>
> Sent from one of my handheld thingies, please forgive linguistic mangling
>
> On 2 Nov 2012, at 07:33, Fouad Bajwa <fouadbajwa at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Milton,
>
> Your comments are welcome as always! One has to add the element of
> confusion not to be re-quoted intentionally or unintentionally where such
> authoritarian regimes are at play and one may be prone to concerns!
>
> My previous comments are based upon facts that I hear occasionally quoted
> during US leadership statements on online FoE and protection of pluralism
> and at the end of the day companies from that country are on the forefront
> of bidding and deploying traffic intelligence  Okay, these companies
> operate in a free market environment but then the credibility of such
> statements collapse amidst surveillance cooperation even if its done by
> companies from that region.
>
> I have always felt that the US has mixed market dynamics and regulators do
> keep an eye and do not tend to overlook the fact that their companies do
> have country level offices that can independently participate in government
> contracts outside the US.
>
> I will have to differ here that devoted support for US and Canadian
> traffic monitoring and intelligence companies that they are not involved in
> censorship because I have witnessed credible information.
>
> I must point out that your defense for the Northern American companies
> argument depicts the traditional free market support whereas I am inclined
> to believe that its a mixed market approach because the government
> diplomacy in terms of Foreign Policy and economic drives cannot be
> completely ignorant of a key component of its globalization agenda/strategy
> of which Internet is an important tool and catalyst of a global world
> order. Anyways, these are from the airport, do I see you in Baku?
>
> Best
>
> Fouad
>
> On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 3:32 AM, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu> wrote:
>
>>  Fouad:****
>>
>> Your answer to David’s question reveals a lot of confusion, in my
>> opinion. ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Markets respond to supply and demand. It is a simple and predictable
>> feature of markets that businesses (whether in the US or anywhere else)
>> will try to sell their products to people who want to use them and have the
>> money to pay for them. So we have a shared responsibility: for DPI and
>> related surveillance and content-filtering equipment, the *demand* is
>> created by authoritarian governments who want to control the Internet in
>> their country, while the *supply* comes from profit-motivated businesses
>> who can meet that demand. Many of these suppliers, by the way, are NOT from
>> the U.S.; many are from Europe, and some are from China or elsewhere. ***
>> *
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Don’t blame the US advocates of FoE for that. ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> As for the “dual FoE internet policy,” well, it’s time to grow up and
>> look at states, including the US state, as self-interested actors and stop
>> believing in the fairy tale that they magically embody the public interest
>> or the people’s will. It’s also time for you to recognize that nearly all
>> states have contradictory political pressures on them; just as the
>> Pakistani govt doesn’t want to alienate the hardcore islamists while
>> continuing to receive $$$ from the US, the US govt (specifically, the State
>> Dept) wants to promote internet freedom while some Congressional pressures
>> want us to withhold nearly all technology from “enemies” or repressive
>> states, and some business-centric agencies and congresspeople want us to
>> expand our market share in foreign countries’ technology purchases by
>> selling them more equipment.  ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:
>> governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] *On Behalf Of *Fouad Bajwa
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 30, 2012 7:14 PM
>> *To:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Suresh Ramasubramanian
>> *Cc:* David Conrad
>> *Subject:* Re: Reasons for 'Internet Traffic Intelligence and
>> Surveillance" products (was Re: [governance] speaker at the opening
>> ceremony?)****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Let me try to answer the confusion quickly while I am multitasking
>> between packing and documentation:****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I'd rather remain implicit. I am sure many of my colleagues from
>> developing countries can list a long list of issues that their countries
>> are concerned about and may be sharing during the WCIT meet and that this
>> list has been discussing in numerous ITR related threads etc. at the end of
>> the day it is more or less around US centric IRM and the challenges of
>> censorship and content filtering. Its not just about iran, russia and
>> china, there are more than a hundred other countries out of which a
>> majority are developing regions and imposing various forms of censorship.
>> ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> My confusion stands around the dual FoE internet policy of these
>> countries that requires some responsibility. Okay, its not only
>> boeing/narus, cisco or sandvine selling censorship but we have huwae in the
>> league of traffic intelligence and DPI as well. Alright, it may be business
>> as usual but this is giving some countries to show and tell the amazing
>> censorship they have implemented. ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Yes there are jurisdiction issues at play  here but then some countries
>> believe in resorting to censorship, blocking and filtering.****
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:13 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <
>> suresh at hserus.net> wrote:****
>>
>> Or is it fouads argument that sandvine gear was bought specifically to
>> censor any discussion of the cir process?  I don't quite understand the
>> logic here either
>>
>> --srs (htc one x)****
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Reply message -----
>> From: "David Conrad" <drc at virtualized.org>
>> To: <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
>> Subject: Reasons for 'Internet Traffic Intelligence and Surveillance"
>> products (was Re: [governance] speaker at the opening ceremony?)
>> Date: Tue, Oct 30, 2012 9:01 PM****
>>
>>
>> Fouad,
>>
>> On Oct 30, 2012, at 6:20 AM, Fouad Bajwa <fouadbajwa at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > The fact remains that as US-Centric Internet Resource Management
>> remains, countries have been sold various Internet Traffic Intelligence and
>> Surveillance systems by US and Canadian companies. An evident example is
>> the use of Sandvine traffic intelligence by PTCL Pakistan Telecommunication
>> Company Limited. PTCL is the largest ICT/Telecom provider in the country
>> and manages the Internet trunks.****
>>
>> I'm curious: how does "US-Centric Internet Resource Management" cause
>> PTCL (et al) to purchase products like Sandvine's?****
>>
>> Thanks,
>> -drc
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t****
>>
>>
>>
>> ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> --
>> Regards.
>> --------------------------
>> Foo****
>>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
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>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
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>
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From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de  Fri Nov  2 22:12:08 2012
From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang=22?=)
Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2012 03:12:08 +0100
Subject: [governance] India & IGF
References: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD227875B@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
 <CAHuaJtPHgcbkiMF-=CnuSbdw1EkYGWhTEzz3rWhaKbn4tFmX9A@mail.gmail.com>
 <A29D6FFA-871A-457D-A7C1-16B47B86E985@virtualized.org>
 <CAHuaJtPZZb1WTbTshiyKB8ouhF5nErSK4e+BoZ6RydzxHmzdLw@mail.gmail.com>
 <D4BA1F99-8D87-46A1-AD44-E1221B1E8ED6@virtualized.org>
Message-ID:  <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD57D@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>

Interesting departure of the Indian government from the CIRP proposal
 
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/kapil-sibal-to-engage-global-leaders-on-multistakeholder-governance-of-internet/article4059282.ece
 
 
wolfgang

 

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From fouadbajwa at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 22:14:29 2012
From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Bajwa)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 07:14:29 +0500
Subject: [governance] From Twitter
In-Reply-To: <CADBMUMHYv9y0bZ1HeuG5OwezqhbviUP4dWU_C7t55SQNwq3Gow@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADBMUMHYv9y0bZ1HeuG5OwezqhbviUP4dWU_C7t55SQNwq3Gow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHuaJtNLkbh13eC4s+f8abx7pwomz7jKH+7ZxXjDLmoP09ThJQ@mail.gmail.com>

Is there more advice on this? Already on the ground here in Baku with many
other of our members.....

Fouad Bajwa
On Nov 3, 2012 12:10 AM, "Katy P" <katycarvt at gmail.com> wrote:

> swdp: Van driver apparently has orders not to let us out to get out of the
> van and in a local cab. #IGF12 #problems withconferencesindictatorships
>
> Original Tweet: http://twitter.com/swdp/status/264412914990059520
>
> Sent via TweetDeck (www.tweetdeck.com)
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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From suresh at hserus.net  Fri Nov  2 22:23:14 2012
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 19:23:14 -0700
Subject: [governance] India & IGF
In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD57D@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
References: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD227875B@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu>
 <CAHuaJtPHgcbkiMF-=CnuSbdw1EkYGWhTEzz3rWhaKbn4tFmX9A@mail.gmail.com>
 <A29D6FFA-871A-457D-A7C1-16B47B86E985@virtualized.org>
 <CAHuaJtPZZb1WTbTshiyKB8ouhF5nErSK4e+BoZ6RydzxHmzdLw@mail.gmail.com>
 <D4BA1F99-8D87-46A1-AD44-E1221B1E8ED6@virtualized.org>
 <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD57D@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
Message-ID: <20121103022314.GB3399@hserus.net>

I was actually at this event in Delhi mentioned in the article.

India seems to be a bit conflicted - they talk about treaty level
agreements - and they're also talking about multistakeholder, so huge
delegations both to budapest recently, and to WCIT.

I'd personally wait for what they actually come out with 

"Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" [03/11/12 03:12 +0100]:
>Interesting departure of the Indian government from the CIRP proposal
>
>http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/kapil-sibal-to-engage-global-leaders-on-multistakeholder-governance-of-internet/article4059282.ece
>
>
>wolfgang
>
>
>

>____________________________________________________________
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From gurstein at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 22:24:22 2012
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 06:24:22 +0400
Subject: [governance] Arrived in good order in Baku
Message-ID: <033801cdb96a$58c8a9b0$0a59fd10$@gmail.com>

I arrived yesterday midday ontime (Turkish Airlines via Istanbul) and after
a wee bit of to-ing and fro-ing around the visa (they didn't seem to have
the procedures quite worked out for IGF folks but nothing major) and was
very kindly escorted to a waiting van (Parminder had arrived earlier and was
waiting for us to arrive in the van).  They then drove us into town and
directly to the apartment that I had rented in the centre (through AirBnB)
where the young lady (she spoke excellent English) helped us get comfortably
settled into the apartment.  

 

Everything worked quite well, with reasonable efficiency and sufficient good
humour and would wish the same for everyone else.

 

(Took a taxi last night to go to dinner with a friend--taxi driver didn't
seem to know the city at all and drove around and around (I had negotiated a
price with him before we started). Ended up about 10 minutes walk from where
we started
 The friend knew a marvellous if fairly expensive 500 (?) year
old restaurant with fantastic food and traditional Azari music in the old
city very near to where we have rented the apartment.)

 

M

 

From: bestbits-request at lists.igcaucus.org
[mailto:bestbits-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Brett Solomon
Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2012 2:36 AM
To: Claudio Ruiz
Cc: Ginger Paque; Jeremy Malcolm; <bestbits at lists.igcaucus.org>
Subject: Re: Best wishes for Best Bits without me

 

 I just got here (18 hours late) - the visa situation was interesting, but
got through unscathed. Now to brave the taxis at 2am :) Brett

On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 5:50 PM, Claudio Ruiz <claudio at derechosdigitales.org>
wrote:

I'm in the same situation. I'm in London because of my Baku flight was
cancelled. I'm arriving tomorrow night. 

 

-c

El viernes, 2 de noviembre de 2012 a las 12:58, Ginger Paque escribió:

Sorry to hear this, Jeremy! However, I do think you have organized so well
that, indeed, the meeting will be a great success and a solid, productive
start to the IGF. See you online in remote participation!

Best wishes and safe travels to all.
Ginger


Ginger (Virginia) Paque

VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu
Diplo Foundation
Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme
www.diplomacy.edu/ig

 

 

On 2 November 2012 06:23, Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org> wrote:

I am writing from Dubai airport, where I am likely to be staying until
tomorrow having missed my connecting flight due to a flight delay.
Therefore, I don't expect to be at Best Bits tomorrow.

Obviously this is a great disappointment to me personally, but since my
involvement in Best Bits has been mostly behind the scenes, I don't expect
that it need have any effect on the success of your discussions and
deliberations tomorrow.

Andrew has the details of how to establish the web conference - though he
may ask one of you to lend him your webcam-enabled computer to use for this
- and so I may even be able to connect to Best Bits remotely before I arrive
in person.

All the best to each of you, and I look forward to hearing how you made this
a great meeting in my absence.

--
Jeremy Malcolm PhD LLB (Hons) B Com
Internet and Open Source lawyer, consumer advocate, geek
host -t NAPTR 5.9.8.5.2.8.2.2.1.0.6.e164.org|awk -F! '{print $3}'

 

 




-- 
Brett Solomon
Executive Director | Access
 <http://accessnow.org/> accessnow.org |  <http://rightscon.org/>
rightscon.org
+1 917 969 6077 | skype: brettsolomon | @accessnow
Key ID: 0x312B641A

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From toml at communisphere.com  Fri Nov  2 23:52:16 2012
From: toml at communisphere.com (Thomas Lowenhaupt)
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2012 23:52:16 -0400
Subject: [governance] Ronald J. Deibert   - 18 Minutes on Cyber Defense,
 Privacy, and Rights
In-Reply-To: <509491FE.7050102@communisphere.com>
References: <509491FE.7050102@communisphere.com>
Message-ID: <509494F0.5090305@communisphere.com>

Fellow List Participants,

I just watched an 18 minute video that those in Baku should see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XDgH0FshUXI#! 
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XDgH0FshUXI#%21>

Tom



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From gurstein at gmail.com  Sat Nov  3 05:16:18 2012
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 13:16:18 +0400
Subject: [governance] Invitation: National IG Mechanisms - Looking at Some
 Key Design Issues
Message-ID: <03b801cdb9a3$f274a170$d75de450$@gmail.com>

You are cordially invited to Workshop discussing National IG Mechanisms -
Looking at Some Key Design Issues to be held on Day 3--Nov. 8, 14.30 to
16.00.

Such is the unique nature of the Internet that its governance often calls
for institutional innovations. The proposed workshop will look at a range of
national level IG mechanisms across the world. While the discussion will
refer to good models and practices in different countries, it will not be
organized around simple show-casing of different national IG mechanisms. The
discussion will centre around key contexts, requirements, challenges and
possibilities. It will be directed towards examining key institutional
design issues, functions and outcomes with regard to national level IG
mechanisms with the purpose to help countries make appropriate decisions in
their specific contexts.

Some of these are;
- How should the national commons of Internet resources be managed?
- What kinds of mechanisms are appropriate for technical matters, what for
those that are partly technical and partly social, and what for larger
public policy matters, requiring more political responses?
- Should there be a common single mechanism to address all the above kinds
of issues, or different ones? How to coordinate different mechanisms, and
different parts of the national governance machinery dealing with different
aspects or kinds of IG issues? 

- How to ensure meaningful participation of all stakeholders in a manner
that focuses on public interest?
- How can the surplus from domain name registration fees etc collected by
national IG agencies be employed for public interest purposes, especially,
for taking up Internet related research.

Organiser(s) Name: 
Centre for Internet and Society, Bangalore - Civil Society
Brazilian Internet Steering Committee - National level governance body
Institute for System Analysis, Russian Academy of Sciences - Academic
Insitution
Centre for Community Informatics Research, Development and Training
(CCIRDT), Vancouver, BC CANADA - Civil Society
Instituto NUPEF , Rio de Janeiro - Civil Society
IT for Change, Bangalore - Civil Society

Carlos Afonso, Insituto NUPEF, Board Member, Brazilian Steering Commitee
Emily Taylor, Independent Consultant, Formerly with NOMINET
Alice Munya, Chairperson, Kenya Internet Steering Commitee
Victor Tishchenko, Institute of Advanced Systems, Russian Academy of
Sciences,
Sunil Abraham, Centre for Internet and Society,
Moderator, Michael Gurstein, Centre for Community Informatics Research,
Development and Training, Canada

Concise Description of Workshop: 

Such is the unique nature of the Internet that its governance often calls
for institutional innovations. The proposed workshop will look at a range of
national level IG mechanisms across the world. While the discussion will
refer to good models and practices in different countries, it will not be
organized around simple show-casing of different national IG mechanisms. The
discussion will centre around key contexts, requirements, challenges and
possibilities. It will be directed towards examining key institutional
design issues, functions and outcomes with regard to national level IG
mechanisms with the purpose to help countries make appropriate decisions in
their specific contexts.

Some of these are;
- How should the national commons of Internet resources be managed?
- What kinds of mechanisms are appropriate for technical matters, what for
those that are partly technical and partly social, and what for larger
public policy matters, requiring more political responses?
- Should there be a common single mechanism to address all the above kinds
of issues, or different ones? How to coordinate different mechanisms, and
different parts of the national governance machinery dealing with different
aspects or kinds of IG issues? 

- How to ensure meaningful participation of all stakeholders in a manner
that focuses on public interest?
- How can the surplus from domain name registration fees etc collected by
national IG agencies be employed for public interest purposes, especially,
for taking up Internet related research.

Organiser(s) Name: 
Centre for Internet and Society, Bangalore - Civil Society
Brazilian Internet Steering Committee - National level governance body
Institute for System Analysis, Russian Academy of Sciences - Academic
Insitution
Centre for Community Informatics Research, Development and Training
(CCIRDT), Vancouver, BC CANADA - Civil Society
Instituto NUPEF , Rio de Janeiro - Civil Society
IT for Change, Bangalore - Civil Society

Carlos Afonso, Insituto NUPEF, Board Member, Brazilian Steering Commitee
Emily Taylor, Independent Consultant, Formerly with NOMINET
Alice Munya, Chairperson, Kenya Internet Steering Commitee
Victor Tishchenko, Institute of Advanced Systems, Russian Academy of
Sciences,
Sunil Abraham, Centre for Internet and Society,
Moderator, Michael Gurstein, Centre for Community Informatics Research,
Development and Training, Canada


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From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com  Sat Nov  3 05:18:31 2012
From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 22:18:31 +1300
Subject: [governance] Absence [Physically from the IGF in Baku]
Message-ID: <CAJwbTiB9ejF18h+ySx0PczB=+xZ-Mo3YTc9OEtVHYB_AX3ANTw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear  Colleagues,

I regret to advise that I will not be in Baku for the IGF but will be
streaming in. I will be available online as always. For those who are going
please lend Izumi your continued support and I would like to wish Jeremy
well with the "Best Bits".

Best Regards,


-- 
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
P.O. Box 17862
Suva
Fiji

Twitter: @SalanietaT
Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
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From rguerra at privaterra.org  Sat Nov  3 05:38:16 2012
From: rguerra at privaterra.org (Robert Guerra)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 05:38:16 -0400
Subject: [governance] Re: From Twitter
In-Reply-To: <CAHuaJtNLkbh13eC4s+f8abx7pwomz7jKH+7ZxXjDLmoP09ThJQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADBMUMHYv9y0bZ1HeuG5OwezqhbviUP4dWU_C7t55SQNwq3Gow@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHuaJtNLkbh13eC4s+f8abx7pwomz7jKH+7ZxXjDLmoP09ThJQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFH+__x2c6xkfjd3JHqKiPdGfW6k+ET-K1bZdU5m3ghOOykfuQ@mail.gmail.com>

I had a pleasant, albeit long ride from the airport to my hotel last night.
A bit exhausted from the journey, but that's all

Treated well by the welcome committee at the airport, shuttle and hotel
staff. Have had none of the issues Sam DuPont mentioned in his tweet lat
night

Looking forward to walking off the jet lag and engaging with the pre-igf
activities and meetings that have already started

Robert

On Saturday, November 3, 2012, Fouad Bajwa wrote:

> Is there more advice on this? Already on the ground here in Baku with many
> other of our members.....
>
> Fouad Bajwa
> On Nov 3, 2012 12:10 AM, "Katy P" <katycarvt at gmail.com <javascript:_e({},
> 'cvml', 'katycarvt at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
>> swdp: Van driver apparently has orders not to let us out to get out of
>> the van and in a local cab. #IGF12 #problems withconferencesindictatorships
>>
>> Original Tweet: http://twitter.com/swdp/status/264412914990059520
>>
>> Sent via TweetDeck (www.tweetdeck.com)
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
>> 'governance at lists.igcaucus.org');>
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
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>>
>>

-- 
Sent from a mobile device.  Apologies for typos or brevity.
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From ms.narine.khachatryan at gmail.com  Sat Nov  3 17:44:02 2012
From: ms.narine.khachatryan at gmail.com (Narine Khachatryan)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 01:44:02 +0400
Subject: [governance] Human Rights Watch Calls on Azerbaijani Government to
 Release Jailed Activists as Country Hosts IGF
Message-ID: <CAPVtaumbAnNx2GzJCToEWi5DjRPufTywEB9PfaNHEUCVNihSbw@mail.gmail.com>

Human Rights Watch Calls on Azerbaijani Government to Release Jailed
Activists as Country Hosts Internet Governance Forum


   - November 2, 2012 (Berlin) – At least eight journalists and three human
   rights defenders are in jail, and freedom of expression is severely limited
   in Azerbaijan <http://www.hrw.org/europecentral-asia/azerbaijan>, the
   host of the upcoming United Nations-sponsored IGF, Human Rights Watch said
   in a briefing paper <http://www.hrw.org/node/111217>
   http://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/related_material/2012_Azerbaijan_Media_Freedom.pdf



   pu

blished today. As  IGF  host,  and  as  a  sign  of  commitment  to  the  IG
F’’s  multi-stakeholder mandate and human development focus, the government
of Azerbaijan should use this opportunity to



·    Release journalists, human rights defenders, and social media activists
whose cases are described in this briefing paper;



·    Introduce legislative amendments to decriminalize libel and introduce a
reasonable monetary cap in civil defamation cases;

·     End  the  effective  blanket  ban  on  freedom  of  assembly  in  Baku
’’s  center  and  end  the  use  of

excessive police force to disperse unsanctioned protests.

The 10-page briefing paper describes Azerbaijan’s record of imprisoning
journalists, human rights defenders, and political opposition activists, in
most cases on bogus criminal charges, in apparent retaliation for their
investigative journalism or political activism.

As the formal convener of the Internet Governance Forum, UN
Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon should remind the Azerbaijan government of
its human rights obligations, Human Rights Watch said. Human Rights Watch
called on governments attending the forum to raise freedom of expression
concerns directly with the Azerbaijani authorities.

http://www.hrw.org/news/2012/11/02/azerbaijan-shrinking-space-media-freedom

Narine Khachatryan
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From iza at anr.org  Sun Nov  4 01:41:49 2012
From: iza at anr.org (Izumi AIZU)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 14:41:49 +0900
Subject: [governance] =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?Reminder_for_Our_workshop_at_IGF_-_?=
 =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?Quo_Vadis_IGF_=96_or_Evolution_of_IGF?=
Message-ID: <CA+YNoKh66+r=xwuqR37gs97S1mThWH6xPfHhx8724KRRSvXL8A@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list,
This is the reminder for the coming workshop at Baku IGF - "Quo Vadis
IGF – or Evolution of IGF"

It will be on the Day 2, Wednesday, November 7, 11:00 - 12:30, Room #5.

Jointly organized with the following organizations, we will continue
the discussion around the "IGF improvement" earlier reported from the
CSTD WG to CSTD/ECOSOC process this year. I think we should not have
to confine our discussion with CSTD improvement per se but also
include EC, and CIRP proposals etc.


Organizers:
Civil Society Internet Governance Caucus
Consumer International
Diplo Foundation
Government of Finland
Internet Society
Institute for InfoSocinomics, Tama University
IT for Change

Speakers:
Mr. Peter Major, Chair, CSTD Working Group on IGF Improvement, Special
Advisor, Permanent Mission of Hungary to the United Nations in Geneva
[Confirmed, Government, WEOG]

Wolfgang Kleinwächter, Professor for International Communication
Policy and Regulation, University of Aarhus [Confirmed, Civil Society,
WEOG]

Ms. Mervi Kultamaa, Counsellor, Information Society & Trade
Facilitation, Ministry for Foreign Affairs of Finland, Department for
External Economic Relations  [Government, WEOG, TBC]

Mr. Markus Kummer, Vice President of Public Policy, Internet Society
[Confirmed, Technical Community, WEOG]
Moderator: Izumi Aizu, Senior Research Fellow, Institute for
InfoSocionomics, Tama University [Confirmed, Civil Society, Asia
Pacific]


Remote Moderator(s):
Ms. Avri Doria, [Civil Society, WEOG]

http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/w2012/proposals

Unfoturnately, as is the case for many, this will clash with the CIR
Main session.

Anyway, I hope may will join the lively discussion,

best,

izumi


--
                     >> Izumi Aizu <<
Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
Japan
www.anr.org

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From baudouin.schombe at gmail.com  Sun Nov  4 03:57:08 2012
From: baudouin.schombe at gmail.com (Baudouin Schombe)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 12:57:08 +0400
Subject: [governance] =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?Reminder_for_Our_workshop_at_IG?=
 =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?F_-_Quo_Vadis_IGF_=96_or_Evolution_of_IGF?=
In-Reply-To: <CA+YNoKh66+r=xwuqR37gs97S1mThWH6xPfHhx8724KRRSvXL8A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKh66+r=xwuqR37gs97S1mThWH6xPfHhx8724KRRSvXL8A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPcSPKWShp6+a5k5eke11UTjosmypdGPz6yccsYOViVGhQ++rw@mail.gmail.com>

I will be

Baudouin

2012/11/4 Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org>

> Dear list,
> This is the reminder for the coming workshop at Baku IGF - "Quo Vadis
> IGF – or Evolution of IGF"
>
> It will be on the Day 2, Wednesday, November 7, 11:00 - 12:30, Room #5.
>
> Jointly organized with the following organizations, we will continue
> the discussion around the "IGF improvement" earlier reported from the
> CSTD WG to CSTD/ECOSOC process this year. I think we should not have
> to confine our discussion with CSTD improvement per se but also
> include EC, and CIRP proposals etc.
>
>
> Organizers:
> Civil Society Internet Governance Caucus
> Consumer International
> Diplo Foundation
> Government of Finland
> Internet Society
> Institute for InfoSocinomics, Tama University
> IT for Change
>
> Speakers:
> Mr. Peter Major, Chair, CSTD Working Group on IGF Improvement, Special
> Advisor, Permanent Mission of Hungary to the United Nations in Geneva
> [Confirmed, Government, WEOG]
>
> Wolfgang Kleinwächter, Professor for International Communication
> Policy and Regulation, University of Aarhus [Confirmed, Civil Society,
> WEOG]
>
> Ms. Mervi Kultamaa, Counsellor, Information Society & Trade
> Facilitation, Ministry for Foreign Affairs of Finland, Department for
> External Economic Relations  [Government, WEOG, TBC]
>
> Mr. Markus Kummer, Vice President of Public Policy, Internet Society
> [Confirmed, Technical Community, WEOG]
> Moderator: Izumi Aizu, Senior Research Fellow, Institute for
> InfoSocionomics, Tama University [Confirmed, Civil Society, Asia
> Pacific]
>
>
> Remote Moderator(s):
> Ms. Avri Doria, [Civil Society, WEOG]
>
> http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/w2012/proposals
>
> Unfoturnately, as is the case for many, this will clash with the CIR
> Main session.
>
> Anyway, I hope may will join the lively discussion,
>
> best,
>
> izumi
>
>
> --
>                      >> Izumi Aizu <<
> Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
> Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
> Japan
> www.anr.org
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN
CENTRE AFRICAIN D'ECHANGE CULTUREL/
ACADEMIE DES TIC
FACILITATEUR GAID/AFRIQUE Membre
At-Large Member
NCSG Member

email:baudouin.schombe at gmail.com
         baudouin.schombe at ticafrica.net
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From b.schombe at gmail.com  Sun Nov  4 04:50:04 2012
From: b.schombe at gmail.com (Baudouin SCHOMBE)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 13:50:04 +0400
Subject: [governance] Invitation: National IG Mechanisms - Looking at
 Some Key Design Issues
In-Reply-To: <03b801cdb9a3$f274a170$d75de450$@gmail.com>
References: <03b801cdb9a3$f274a170$d75de450$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHj_20gbLAGUiAzdhdrJsfTqzpo+nzWw2Xd2cfuBV3jrBZ1YRQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thnaks Michael,

I will be


SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN

Téléphone mobile:+243998983491
email                  : b.schombe at gmail.com
skype                 : b.schombe
blog                    : http://akimambo.unblog.fr
Site Web             : www.ticafrica.net





2012/11/3 michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com>

> You are cordially invited to Workshop discussing National IG Mechanisms -
> Looking at Some Key Design Issues to be held on Day 3--Nov. 8, 14.30 to
> 16.00.
>
> Such is the unique nature of the Internet that its governance often calls
> for institutional innovations. The proposed workshop will look at a range
> of
> national level IG mechanisms across the world. While the discussion will
> refer to good models and practices in different countries, it will not be
> organized around simple show-casing of different national IG mechanisms.
> The
> discussion will centre around key contexts, requirements, challenges and
> possibilities. It will be directed towards examining key institutional
> design issues, functions and outcomes with regard to national level IG
> mechanisms with the purpose to help countries make appropriate decisions in
> their specific contexts.
>
> Some of these are;
> - How should the national commons of Internet resources be managed?
> - What kinds of mechanisms are appropriate for technical matters, what for
> those that are partly technical and partly social, and what for larger
> public policy matters, requiring more political responses?
> - Should there be a common single mechanism to address all the above kinds
> of issues, or different ones? How to coordinate different mechanisms, and
> different parts of the national governance machinery dealing with different
> aspects or kinds of IG issues?
>
> - How to ensure meaningful participation of all stakeholders in a manner
> that focuses on public interest?
> - How can the surplus from domain name registration fees etc collected by
> national IG agencies be employed for public interest purposes, especially,
> for taking up Internet related research.
>
> Organiser(s) Name:
> Centre for Internet and Society, Bangalore - Civil Society
> Brazilian Internet Steering Committee - National level governance body
> Institute for System Analysis, Russian Academy of Sciences - Academic
> Insitution
> Centre for Community Informatics Research, Development and Training
> (CCIRDT), Vancouver, BC CANADA - Civil Society
> Instituto NUPEF , Rio de Janeiro - Civil Society
> IT for Change, Bangalore - Civil Society
>
> Carlos Afonso, Insituto NUPEF, Board Member, Brazilian Steering Commitee
> Emily Taylor, Independent Consultant, Formerly with NOMINET
> Alice Munya, Chairperson, Kenya Internet Steering Commitee
> Victor Tishchenko, Institute of Advanced Systems, Russian Academy of
> Sciences,
> Sunil Abraham, Centre for Internet and Society,
> Moderator, Michael Gurstein, Centre for Community Informatics Research,
> Development and Training, Canada
>
> Concise Description of Workshop:
>
> Such is the unique nature of the Internet that its governance often calls
> for institutional innovations. The proposed workshop will look at a range
> of
> national level IG mechanisms across the world. While the discussion will
> refer to good models and practices in different countries, it will not be
> organized around simple show-casing of different national IG mechanisms.
> The
> discussion will centre around key contexts, requirements, challenges and
> possibilities. It will be directed towards examining key institutional
> design issues, functions and outcomes with regard to national level IG
> mechanisms with the purpose to help countries make appropriate decisions in
> their specific contexts.
>
> Some of these are;
> - How should the national commons of Internet resources be managed?
> - What kinds of mechanisms are appropriate for technical matters, what for
> those that are partly technical and partly social, and what for larger
> public policy matters, requiring more political responses?
> - Should there be a common single mechanism to address all the above kinds
> of issues, or different ones? How to coordinate different mechanisms, and
> different parts of the national governance machinery dealing with different
> aspects or kinds of IG issues?
>
> - How to ensure meaningful participation of all stakeholders in a manner
> that focuses on public interest?
> - How can the surplus from domain name registration fees etc collected by
> national IG agencies be employed for public interest purposes, especially,
> for taking up Internet related research.
>
> Organiser(s) Name:
> Centre for Internet and Society, Bangalore - Civil Society
> Brazilian Internet Steering Committee - National level governance body
> Institute for System Analysis, Russian Academy of Sciences - Academic
> Insitution
> Centre for Community Informatics Research, Development and Training
> (CCIRDT), Vancouver, BC CANADA - Civil Society
> Instituto NUPEF , Rio de Janeiro - Civil Society
> IT for Change, Bangalore - Civil Society
>
> Carlos Afonso, Insituto NUPEF, Board Member, Brazilian Steering Commitee
> Emily Taylor, Independent Consultant, Formerly with NOMINET
> Alice Munya, Chairperson, Kenya Internet Steering Commitee
> Victor Tishchenko, Institute of Advanced Systems, Russian Academy of
> Sciences,
> Sunil Abraham, Centre for Internet and Society,
> Moderator, Michael Gurstein, Centre for Community Informatics Research,
> Development and Training, Canada
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
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From y.morenets at againstcybercrime.eu  Sun Nov  4 10:37:17 2012
From: y.morenets at againstcybercrime.eu (Yuliya Morenets)
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2012 15:37:17 +0000
Subject: [governance] Invitation WS168: Capacity building Initiatives
In-Reply-To: <509494F0.5090305@communisphere.com>
Message-ID: <g1eis1gZ.1352043437.1025880.y.morenets@againstcybercrime.eu>

Dear all,

I would like to communicate this information and  invite all to attend
(physically or remotely) the workshop TaC organizes in Baku,

WS 168, Capacity building Initiatives for better economic and social
inclusion of vulnerable people in the Information society, that will take
place on the 7th of November, 11:00-12:30, room 10.

The detailed flyer is attached.

I hope that this list members will find the subject interesting.

The workshop speakers are:
Mr Zahid U. Jamil- Co-moderator, Barrister Esq.&#8232;&#8232;, Director,
Developing Country Center for Cybercrime & Law - Jamil & Jamil
Barristers-at-law (confirmed)
Ms Yuliya Morenets- Co-moderator, TaC-Together against Cybercrime
(confirmed)

Mr Wolf Ludwig- Euralo/ICANN (confirmed)
Mr Khaled Fattal- Multilingual Internet Group (confirmed)
Ms Danielle de Groot Msc- Council of Chiefs of Police, Netherlands
(confirmed)
Ms Lara Pace-COMNET (confirmed)
Mr Pavan Duggal- President, Cyberlaws.net, The Associated Chambers of
Commerce and Industry of India (confirmed)
Ms Barbara-Chiara Ubaldi- OECD (confirmed)
Mr Stuart Hamilton- IFLA-International federation of Library Associations
and Institutions (confirmed)
African Union Representative (confirmed)

Ms Roxana Radu- remote moderator (confirmed)

With best regards,
Yuliya Morenets
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From me at benakoh.com  Sun Nov  4 10:54:25 2012
From: me at benakoh.com (Ben Akoh)
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2012 09:54:25 -0600
Subject: [governance] Invitation to IGF Workshop 68: Multi-stakeholder
 Internet Public Policy: Toolkit for internet public policy practitioners
Message-ID: <50968FB1.50607@benakoh.com>

Hi all,

If you are in Baku (or connecting via remote participation), you are 
invited to the Workshop No 68: Multi-stakeholder Internet Public Policy: 
Toolkit for internet public policy practitioners 
(http://wsms1.intgovforum.org/content/no68-multi-stakeholder-internet-public-policy-toolkit-internet-public-policy-practitioners).

Also find link to the downloadable Toolkit document that has resulted 
from our experience of facilitating internet public policy dialogue in 
developed and developing countries and regions: 
http://www.iisd.org/publications/pub.aspx?pno=1619.

The tools identified in the toolkit may have been employed in your 
region or country to foster public policy dialogue. We would like you to 
share those experiences, and the potential they have/had at influencing 
policy.

Best regards,
Ben

Details of the workshop can be found below:

(No.68) Multi-stakeholder Internet Public Policy: Toolkit for internet 
public policy practitioners
Status:
Accepted
Workshop Theme:
Internet Governance for Development [IG4D]
Theme Question:

Security, Openness and Privacy Q5; IG4D, Enabling Environment Thematic 
Cluster: Q2, Infrastructure Cluster: Q1
Concise Description of Workshop:

At the “Multi-stakeholder Internet Public Policy Dialogue: Lessons 
Learned and Best Practice Examples of Local to Global Policy Making” 
organized by IISD at the Nairobi IGF, and involving a rich panel 
consisting of coordinators of the Canadian, UK, Brazilian/South 
American, East African, Togo National IGFs, and the UNDP, certain key 
messages emerged that recognized:
• the relationships between global and public spheres in policy making
• The importance of awareness raising, representation, partnership, 
auditing and tracking of the policy making process
• The need for evidence and consent in public policy
The outcome from this session, and other national and regional process 
that IISD has been involved with has helped to shape the production of a 
toolkit that is about supporting and building the capacity of 
stakeholder dialogue and engagement. The toolkit is a subset of what 
might constitute a much broader range of activities related to internet 
public policy development. Elements in this toolkit will be used to 
guide the discussion at this workshop which aims to:
• Build and support stakeholder dialogue and engagement, and of public 
consultation forums and the various processes for developing public 
policy as a shared responsibility.
Through a well moderated panel dialogue and broad open discussions, 
experts, practitioners and stakeholders will engage on the good 
practices and lessons learned at various national and regional public 
consultations forums and how the tools in the toolkit can be adopted and 
adapted for their own use.
The project specifically falls within the IGF theme of Internet 
Governance for Development because it equips local practitioners 
especially those in developing countries to better engage in global 
public policy spaces.
The workshop intends to address the “Internet Governance for 
Development” main theme question that explores the kinds of support 
needed to help communities, NGOs and businesses from the developing 
world to participate in the IG process. It also explores the security, 
openness and privacy question on policies and practices that can assist 
in making the internet and effective multistakeholder model for national 
and regional issues that developing countries can benefit. The 
discussion will be guided by other sub questions in each of the 
following thematic areas:
Internet Governance for Development Question:
• Enabling Environment Thematic Cluster: Question 2: What does it take 
in terms of IG policy, legal and regulatory approaches? What are the 
challenges to and opportunities for participation of stakeholders from 
developing countries with a special focus on increasing participation by 
youth and women participation in IG from Least Developed Countries?
• Infrastructure Cluster: Question 1:What are the key concerns regarding 
Internet infrastructure from developing countries' experiences and how 
can new technologies and the Global Internet Governance mechanisms 
address limitations, offer opportunities and enable development?
Security, Openness and Privacy Question:
• Question 5: What policies and practices that can assist in making the 
Internet an effective multistakeholder model to discuss national & 
regional issues and what best practices developing countries can benefit 
from.
Organiser(s) Name:

International Institute for Sustainable Development (IISD)
Nominet
Previous Workshop(s):

http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/component/chronocontact/?chronoformname=W...
http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/component/chronocontact/?chronoformname=W...
Submitted Workshop Panelists:

• Alice Munyua, EAIGF
• Anju Mangal, SIDs Pacific IGF
• Nnenna Nwakanma, WAIGF
• Heather Creech, IISD
• Mark Carvell, UK IGF
• Towela Nyirenda, Southern African IGF
• Sahr Gborie, Sierra Leone IGF
• Abdullai Kamara, Liberian IGF



Name of Remote Moderator(s):
Ben Akoh




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From kabani.asif at gmail.com  Sun Nov  4 10:57:21 2012
From: kabani.asif at gmail.com (Kabani)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 20:57:21 +0500
Subject: [governance] =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?Reminder_for_Our_workshop_at_IG?=
 =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?F_-_Quo_Vadis_IGF_=96_or_Evolution_of_IGF?=
In-Reply-To: <CAPcSPKWShp6+a5k5eke11UTjosmypdGPz6yccsYOViVGhQ++rw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKh66+r=xwuqR37gs97S1mThWH6xPfHhx8724KRRSvXL8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPcSPKWShp6+a5k5eke11UTjosmypdGPz6yccsYOViVGhQ++rw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOzvoR2MocuAmUREzqyyLe=OF5prZMKA1fmv1Uz1j8TJiDsPRQ@mail.gmail.com>

I am baku, what are the plan, count me in.

Regards

Asif Kabani

On 4 November 2012 13:57, Baudouin Schombe <baudouin.schombe at gmail.com>wrote:

> I will be
>
> Baudouin
>
> 2012/11/4 Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org>
>
>> Dear list,
>> This is the reminder for the coming workshop at Baku IGF - "Quo Vadis
>> IGF – or Evolution of IGF"
>>
>> It will be on the Day 2, Wednesday, November 7, 11:00 - 12:30, Room #5.
>>
>> Jointly organized with the following organizations, we will continue
>> the discussion around the "IGF improvement" earlier reported from the
>> CSTD WG to CSTD/ECOSOC process this year. I think we should not have
>> to confine our discussion with CSTD improvement per se but also
>> include EC, and CIRP proposals etc.
>>
>>
>> Organizers:
>> Civil Society Internet Governance Caucus
>> Consumer International
>> Diplo Foundation
>> Government of Finland
>> Internet Society
>> Institute for InfoSocinomics, Tama University
>> IT for Change
>>
>> Speakers:
>> Mr. Peter Major, Chair, CSTD Working Group on IGF Improvement, Special
>> Advisor, Permanent Mission of Hungary to the United Nations in Geneva
>> [Confirmed, Government, WEOG]
>>
>> Wolfgang Kleinwächter, Professor for International Communication
>> Policy and Regulation, University of Aarhus [Confirmed, Civil Society,
>> WEOG]
>>
>> Ms. Mervi Kultamaa, Counsellor, Information Society & Trade
>> Facilitation, Ministry for Foreign Affairs of Finland, Department for
>> External Economic Relations  [Government, WEOG, TBC]
>>
>> Mr. Markus Kummer, Vice President of Public Policy, Internet Society
>> [Confirmed, Technical Community, WEOG]
>> Moderator: Izumi Aizu, Senior Research Fellow, Institute for
>> InfoSocionomics, Tama University [Confirmed, Civil Society, Asia
>> Pacific]
>>
>>
>> Remote Moderator(s):
>> Ms. Avri Doria, [Civil Society, WEOG]
>>
>> http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/w2012/proposals
>>
>> Unfoturnately, as is the case for many, this will clash with the CIR
>> Main session.
>>
>> Anyway, I hope may will join the lively discussion,
>>
>> best,
>>
>> izumi
>>
>>
>> --
>>                      >> Izumi Aizu <<
>> Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
>> Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
>> Japan
>> www.anr.org
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN
> CENTRE AFRICAIN D'ECHANGE CULTUREL/
> ACADEMIE DES TIC
> FACILITATEUR GAID/AFRIQUE Membre
> At-Large Member
> NCSG Member
>
> email:baudouin.schombe at gmail.com
>          baudouin.schombe at ticafrica.net
> tél:+243998983491
> skype:b.schombe
> wite web:http://webmail.ticafrica.net
> blog:http://akimambo.unblog.fr
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
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>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
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From parminder at itforchange.net  Sun Nov  4 14:31:50 2012
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder at itforchange.net)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 11:31:50 -0800
Subject: [governance] URGENT- meeting with the Indian minister
Message-ID: <7ec29a619dcfb65e02aecea972251c9f.squirrel@www.itforchange.net>



Dear All

The Indian minister for IT will like to meet civil members tomorrow
morning at 930 AM at the Park Hyatt Hotel, here in Baku.

I know this is pretty late to inform you about it but \i have personally
invited almost all civil society guys who are already at Baku for the
bestbits meeting. However, there may be others who may have reached Baku
and be interested to meet the minister, in which case please do consider
yourself invited, in case you can make it to Park Hyatt by 930 AM.

parminder


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From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com  Sun Nov  4 14:47:37 2012
From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 08:47:37 +1300
Subject: [governance] URGENT- meeting with the Indian minister
In-Reply-To: <7ec29a619dcfb65e02aecea972251c9f.squirrel@www.itforchange.net>
References: <7ec29a619dcfb65e02aecea972251c9f.squirrel@www.itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <CAJwbTiBFKCwx1QcmVkKCYPWJtVrTh8U8TRsxB2mOcu6PfOm-vg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear All,

This is excellent Parminder and a great opportunity to engage in dialogue.

Kind Regards,
Sala

On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 8:31 AM, <parminder at itforchange.net> wrote:

>
>
> Dear All
>
> The Indian minister for IT will like to meet civil members tomorrow
> morning at 930 AM at the Park Hyatt Hotel, here in Baku.
>
> I know this is pretty late to inform you about it but \i have personally
> invited almost all civil society guys who are already at Baku for the
> bestbits meeting. However, there may be others who may have reached Baku
> and be interested to meet the minister, in which case please do consider
> yourself invited, in case you can make it to Park Hyatt by 930 AM.
>
> parminder
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
P.O. Box 17862
Suva
Fiji

Twitter: @SalanietaT
Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
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From riaz.tayob at gmail.com  Sun Nov  4 14:35:33 2012
From: riaz.tayob at gmail.com (Riaz K Tayob)
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2012 20:35:33 +0100
Subject: [governance] Re: Reasons for 'Internet Traffic Intelligence and
 Surveillance" products
In-Reply-To: <CAHuaJtN=T77Ryhyh4s79kbN78iMOx3+9UevNYvTu9o181iZuBg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD227875B@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <CAHuaJtPHgcbkiMF-=CnuSbdw1EkYGWhTEzz3rWhaKbn4tFmX9A@mail.gmail.com> <7512503234645386515@unknownmsgid> <CAHuaJtN=T77Ryhyh4s79kbN78iMOx3+9UevNYvTu9o181iZuBg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5096C385.9070402@gmail.com>

Foo

With governance arrangements (and a large part of innovation) in the US, 
there are synergies that are created... which kinda improves the US 
comparative advantage in competition on this issue... now is that a 
level playing field? Are transaction costs lower for US suppliers? How 
can barriers to entry be dealt with... this aside from the ethics of 
such products which as Auerbach said may be necessary for smooth operations?

Riaz


On 2012/11/03 02:34 AM, Fouad Bajwa wrote:
>
> A very valid point Nick. Equal footing will always be a challenge to 
> counter such.
>
> Foo
>
> On Nov 2, 2012 9:19 PM, "Nick Ashton-Hart" <nashton at ccianet.org 
> <mailto:nashton at ccianet.org>> wrote:
>
>     Dear Fouad,
>
>     Whatever kind of market economy the US has (or any other for that
>     matter does not alter The fundamental point that a demand for a
>     product will find someone somewhere ready to supply it. While it
>     is important to deal with the supply, you will never completely
>     eliminate it until you deal with the demand.
>
>     Sent from one of my handheld thingies, please forgive linguistic
>     mangling
>
>     On 2 Nov 2012, at 07:33, Fouad Bajwa <fouadbajwa at gmail.com
>     <mailto:fouadbajwa at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>>     Dear Milton,
>>
>>     Your comments are welcome as always! One has to add the element
>>     of confusion not to be re-quoted intentionally or unintentionally
>>     where such authoritarian regimes are at play and one may be prone
>>     to concerns!
>>
>>     My previous comments are based upon facts that I hear
>>     occasionally quoted during US leadership statements on online FoE
>>     and protection of pluralism and at the end of the day companies
>>     from that country are on the forefront of bidding and deploying
>>     traffic intelligence  Okay, these companies operate in a free
>>     market environment but then the credibility of such statements
>>     collapse amidst surveillance cooperation even if its done by
>>     companies from that region.
>>
>>     I have always felt that the US has mixed market dynamics and
>>     regulators do keep an eye and do not tend to overlook the fact
>>     that their companies do have country level offices that can
>>     independently participate in government contracts outside the US.
>>
>>     I will have to differ here that devoted support for US and
>>     Canadian traffic monitoring and intelligence companies that they
>>     are not involved in censorship because I have witnessed credible
>>     information.
>>
>>     I must point out that your defense for the Northern American
>>     companies argument depicts the traditional free market support
>>     whereas I am inclined to believe that its a mixed market approach
>>     because the government diplomacy in terms of Foreign Policy and
>>     economic drives cannot be completely ignorant of a key component
>>     of its globalization agenda/strategy of which Internet is an
>>     important tool and catalyst of a global world order. Anyways,
>>     these are from the airport, do I see you in Baku?
>>
>>     Best
>>
>>     Fouad
>>
>>     On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 3:32 AM, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu
>>     <mailto:mueller at syr.edu>> wrote:
>>
>>         Fouad:
>>
>>         Your answer to David’s question reveals a lot of confusion,
>>         in my opinion.
>>
>>         Markets respond to supply and demand. It is a simple and
>>         predictable feature of markets that businesses (whether in
>>         the US or anywhere else) will try to sell their products to
>>         people who want to use them and have the money to pay for
>>         them. So we have a shared responsibility: for DPI and related
>>         surveillance and content-filtering equipment, the *demand* is
>>         created by authoritarian governments who want to control the
>>         Internet in their country, while the *supply* comes from
>>         profit-motivated businesses who can meet that demand. Many of
>>         these suppliers, by the way, are NOT from the U.S.; many are
>>         from Europe, and some are from China or elsewhere.
>>
>>         Don’t blame the US advocates of FoE for that.
>>
>>         As for the “dual FoE internet policy,” well, it’s time to
>>         grow up and look at states, including the US state, as
>>         self-interested actors and stop believing in the fairy tale
>>         that they magically embody the public interest or the
>>         people’s will. It’s also time for you to recognize that
>>         nearly all states have contradictory political pressures on
>>         them; just as the Pakistani govt doesn’t want to alienate the
>>         hardcore islamists while continuing to receive $$$ from the
>>         US, the US govt (specifically, the State Dept) wants to
>>         promote internet freedom while some Congressional pressures
>>         want us to withhold nearly all technology from “enemies” or
>>         repressive states, and some business-centric agencies and
>>         congresspeople want us to expand our market share in foreign
>>         countries’ technology purchases by selling them more equipment.
>>
>>         *From:*governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
>>         <mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org>
>>         [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
>>         <mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org>] *On Behalf Of
>>         *Fouad Bajwa
>>         *Sent:* Tuesday, October 30, 2012 7:14 PM
>>         *To:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>         <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>; Suresh Ramasubramanian
>>         *Cc:* David Conrad
>>         *Subject:* Re: Reasons for 'Internet Traffic Intelligence and
>>         Surveillance" products (was Re: [governance] speaker at the
>>         opening ceremony?)
>>
>>         Let me try to answer the confusion quickly while I am
>>         multitasking between packing and documentation:
>>
>>         I'd rather remain implicit. I am sure many of my colleagues
>>         from developing countries can list a long list of issues that
>>         their countries are concerned about and may be sharing during
>>         the WCIT meet and that this list has been discussing in
>>         numerous ITR related threads etc. at the end of the day it is
>>         more or less around US centric IRM and the challenges of
>>         censorship and content filtering. Its not just about iran,
>>         russia and china, there are more than a hundred other
>>         countries out of which a majority are developing regions and
>>         imposing various forms of censorship.
>>
>>         My confusion stands around the dual FoE internet policy of
>>         these countries that requires some responsibility. Okay, its
>>         not only boeing/narus, cisco or sandvine selling censorship
>>         but we have huwae in the league of traffic intelligence and
>>         DPI as well. Alright, it may be business as usual but this is
>>         giving some countries to show and tell the amazing censorship
>>         they have implemented.
>>
>>         Yes there are jurisdiction issues at play  here but then some
>>         countries believe in resorting to censorship, blocking and
>>         filtering.
>>
>>         On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:13 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian
>>         <suresh at hserus.net <mailto:suresh at hserus.net>> wrote:
>>
>>         Or is it fouads argument that sandvine gear was bought
>>         specifically to censor any discussion of the cir process?  I
>>         don't quite understand the logic here either
>>
>>         --srs (htc one x)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>         ----- Reply message -----
>>         From: "David Conrad" <drc at virtualized.org
>>         <mailto:drc at virtualized.org>>
>>         To: <governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>         <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>>
>>         Subject: Reasons for 'Internet Traffic Intelligence and
>>         Surveillance" products (was Re: [governance] speaker at the
>>         opening ceremony?)
>>         Date: Tue, Oct 30, 2012 9:01 PM
>>
>>
>>         Fouad,
>>
>>         On Oct 30, 2012, at 6:20 AM, Fouad Bajwa
>>         <fouadbajwa at gmail.com <mailto:fouadbajwa at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>         > The fact remains that as US-Centric Internet Resource
>>         Management remains, countries have been sold various Internet
>>         Traffic Intelligence and Surveillance systems by US and
>>         Canadian companies. An evident example is the use of Sandvine
>>         traffic intelligence by PTCL Pakistan Telecommunication
>>         Company Limited. PTCL is the largest ICT/Telecom provider in
>>         the country and manages the Internet trunks.
>>
>>         I'm curious: how does "US-Centric Internet Resource
>>         Management" cause PTCL (et al) to purchase products like
>>         Sandvine's?
>>
>>         Thanks,
>>         -drc
>>
>>
>>
>>         ____________________________________________________________
>>         You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>         governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>         <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
>>         To be removed from the list, visit:
>>         http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>>         For all other list information and functions, see:
>>         http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>         To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>         http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>>         Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>>
>>         -- 
>>         Regards.
>>         --------------------------
>>         Foo
>>
>>
>>
>>     ____________________________________________________________
>>     You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
>>     To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>>     For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>     To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>>     Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>

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From suresh at hserus.net  Sun Nov  4 19:08:17 2012
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 05:38:17 +0530
Subject: [governance] Re: Reasons for 'Internet Traffic Intelligence and
 Surveillance" products
In-Reply-To: <5096C385.9070402@gmail.com>
References: <855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD227875B@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu> <CAHuaJtPHgcbkiMF-=CnuSbdw1EkYGWhTEzz3rWhaKbn4tFmX9A@mail.gmail.com> <7512503234645386515@unknownmsgid> <CAHuaJtN=T77Ryhyh4s79kbN78iMOx3+9UevNYvTu9o181iZuBg@mail.gmail.com> <5096C385.9070402@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2555C12A-E722-49CD-A1A7-96A95289A4EF@hserus.net>

Which still doesn't address how you manage to connect that to Internet resource management

--srs (iPad)

On 05-Nov-2012, at 1:05, Riaz K Tayob <riaz.tayob at gmail.com> wrote:

> Foo
> 
> With governance arrangements (and a large part of innovation) in the US, there are synergies that are created... which kinda improves the US comparative advantage in competition on this issue... now is that a level playing field? Are transaction costs lower for US suppliers? How can barriers to entry be dealt with... this aside from the ethics of such products which as Auerbach said may be necessary for smooth operations?
> 
> Riaz
> 
> 
> On 2012/11/03 02:34 AM, Fouad Bajwa wrote:
>> A very valid point Nick. Equal footing will always be a challenge to counter such.
>> 
>> Foo
>> 
>> On Nov 2, 2012 9:19 PM, "Nick Ashton-Hart" <nashton at ccianet.org> wrote:
>>> Dear Fouad,
>>> 
>>> Whatever kind of market economy the US has (or any other for that matter does not alter The fundamental point that a demand for a product will find someone somewhere ready to supply it. While it is important to deal with the supply, you will never completely eliminate it until you deal with the demand.
>>> 
>>> Sent from one of my handheld thingies, please forgive linguistic mangling
>>> 
>>> On 2 Nov 2012, at 07:33, Fouad Bajwa <fouadbajwa at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Dear Milton, 
>>>> 
>>>> Your comments are welcome as always! One has to add the element of confusion not to be re-quoted intentionally or unintentionally where such authoritarian regimes are at play and one may be prone to concerns! 
>>>> 
>>>> My previous comments are based upon facts that I hear occasionally quoted during US leadership statements on online FoE and protection of pluralism and at the end of the day companies from that country are on the forefront of bidding and deploying traffic intelligence  Okay, these companies operate in a free market environment but then the credibility of such statements collapse amidst surveillance cooperation even if its done by companies from that region.
>>>> 
>>>> I have always felt that the US has mixed market dynamics and regulators do keep an eye and do not tend to overlook the fact that their companies do have country level offices that can independently participate in government contracts outside the US.
>>>> 
>>>> I will have to differ here that devoted support for US and Canadian traffic monitoring and intelligence companies that they are not involved in censorship because I have witnessed credible information. 
>>>> 
>>>> I must point out that your defense for the Northern American companies argument depicts the traditional free market support whereas I am inclined to believe that its a mixed market approach because the government diplomacy in terms of Foreign Policy and economic drives cannot be completely ignorant of a key component of its globalization agenda/strategy of which Internet is an important tool and catalyst of a global world order. Anyways, these are from the airport, do I see you in Baku? 
>>>> 
>>>> Best
>>>> 
>>>> Fouad
>>>> 
>>>> On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 3:32 AM, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu> wrote:
>>>>> Fouad:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Your answer to David’s question reveals a lot of confusion, in my opinion.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Markets respond to supply and demand. It is a simple and predictable feature of markets that businesses (whether in the US or anywhere else) will try to sell their products to people who want to use them and have the money to pay for them. So we have a shared responsibility: for DPI and related surveillance and content-filtering equipment, the demand is created by authoritarian governments who want to control the Internet in their country, while the supply comes from profit-motivated businesses who can meet that demand. Many of these suppliers, by the way, are NOT from the U.S.; many are from Europe, and some are from China or elsewhere.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Don’t blame the US advocates of FoE for that.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> As for the “dual FoE internet policy,” well, it’s time to grow up and look at states, including the US state, as self-interested actors and stop believing in the fairy tale that they magically embody the public interest or the people’s will. It’s also time for you to recognize that nearly all states have contradictory political pressures on them; just as the Pakistani govt doesn’t want to alienate the hardcore islamists while continuing to receive $$$ from the US, the US govt (specifically, the State Dept) wants to promote internet freedom while some Congressional pressures want us to withhold nearly all technology from “enemies” or repressive states, and some business-centric agencies and congresspeople want us to expand our market share in foreign countries’ technology purchases by selling them more equipment.  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Fouad Bajwa
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 7:14 PM
>>>>> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Suresh Ramasubramanian
>>>>> Cc: David Conrad
>>>>> Subject: Re: Reasons for 'Internet Traffic Intelligence and Surveillance" products (was Re: [governance] speaker at the opening ceremony?)
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Let me try to answer the confusion quickly while I am multitasking between packing and                               documentation:
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'd rather remain implicit. I am sure many of my colleagues from developing countries can list a long list of issues that their countries are concerned about and may be sharing during the WCIT meet and that this list has been discussing in numerous ITR related threads etc. at the end of the day it is more or less around US centric IRM and the challenges of censorship and content filtering. Its not just about iran, russia and china, there are more than a hundred other countries out of which a majority are developing regions and imposing various forms of censorship.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> My confusion stands around the dual FoE internet policy of these countries that requires some responsibility. Okay, its not only boeing/narus, cisco or sandvine selling censorship but we have huwae in the league of traffic intelligence and DPI as well. Alright, it may be business as usual but this is giving some countries to show and tell t
>>>>> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
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From chaitanyabd at gmail.com  Sun Nov  4 23:45:20 2012
From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 10:15:20 +0530
Subject: [governance] URGENT- meeting with the Indian minister
In-Reply-To: <CAJwbTiBFKCwx1QcmVkKCYPWJtVrTh8U8TRsxB2mOcu6PfOm-vg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7ec29a619dcfb65e02aecea972251c9f.squirrel@www.itforchange.net>
	<CAJwbTiBFKCwx1QcmVkKCYPWJtVrTh8U8TRsxB2mOcu6PfOm-vg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEP5zKTWKyc37YBr8H_7PXyfxioXr57O_hg3kMoqk4EQEZEoRw@mail.gmail.com>

+1 Great stuff Parminder! I'm assuming there will be some sort of
summary/minutes of the meeting so the rest of us have an idea of what the
good minister's plans are for the future.

-C

On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 1:17 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <
salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> This is excellent Parminder and a great opportunity to engage in dialogue.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Sala
>
> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 8:31 AM, <parminder at itforchange.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Dear All
>>
>> The Indian minister for IT will like to meet civil members tomorrow
>> morning at 930 AM at the Park Hyatt Hotel, here in Baku.
>>
>> I know this is pretty late to inform you about it but \i have personally
>> invited almost all civil society guys who are already at Baku for the
>> bestbits meeting. However, there may be others who may have reached Baku
>> and be interested to meet the minister, in which case please do consider
>> yourself invited, in case you can make it to Park Hyatt by 930 AM.
>>
>> parminder
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
> P.O. Box 17862
> Suva
> Fiji
>
> Twitter: @SalanietaT
> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
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From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com  Mon Nov  5 01:12:51 2012
From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 08:12:51 +0200
Subject: [governance] Facebook Flaw Bypasses Password Protections
Message-ID: <CABBOhxr01VqKg8nDVV+_5dc8m2aN9vSNO8sSk+xVhd9-O+Fc1g@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20180229

Facebook has moved quickly to shut down a loophole which made some accounts
accessible without a password.

Fahd
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From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com  Mon Nov  5 01:16:08 2012
From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 08:16:08 +0200
Subject: [governance] Summly: Teenager Launches Top-Selling News App
Message-ID: <CABBOhxot_mo92m2x8NOeR1vXurEHvoQmnkSSxoU06s5eVnGA=Q@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20181537

A smartphone app which provides summaries of news stories soared to number
nine in Apple's app store just two hours after its release in the US.

Fahd
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From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com  Mon Nov  5 01:32:55 2012
From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 08:32:55 +0200
Subject: [governance] Apple Ordered to Re-Write 'Inaccurate' Samsung
 Statement
Message-ID: <CABBOhxqvZJ_3JRb+dJkOJTg+eh62WA0rdh7mHidnN0g_u_d0Ng@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20165664

Apple has 48 hours to re-write a statement on its website relating to its
design rights dispute with Samsung, UK judges have ruled.

Fahd
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From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com  Mon Nov  5 01:35:48 2012
From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 08:35:48 +0200
Subject: [governance] Government IT Projects: UK Adopts Open Technology
 Standards
Message-ID: <CABBOhxr8o3o2CX9HBKxtsyr36ONeNw9E6v_EpkLqF82HyxvBOA@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20178175

The UK government is drawing up a set of open technology standards all
future IT projects must comply with.

Fahd
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From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com  Mon Nov  5 01:39:56 2012
From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 08:39:56 +0200
Subject: [governance] Kim Dotcom Reveals Mega to Replace Megaupload
 File-Sharing Site
Message-ID: <CABBOhxoweGzHhL6AhE4v5GjDBZ_cNs64SSFQxTTGUKssT+tDrA@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20165657

Kim Dotcom has announced plans for Mega, a service to replace his shut down
file-sharing website Megaupload.

Fahd
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From baudouin.schombe at gmail.com  Mon Nov  5 01:46:54 2012
From: baudouin.schombe at gmail.com (Baudouin Schombe)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 10:46:54 +0400
Subject: [governance] Invitation WS168: Capacity building Initiatives
In-Reply-To: <g1eis1gZ.1352043437.1025880.y.morenets@againstcybercrime.eu>
References: <509494F0.5090305@communisphere.com> <g1eis1gZ.1352043437.1025880.y.morenets@againstcybercrime.eu>
Message-ID: <CAPcSPKV6JBf0cVaDWsEKwSM-g6r+VCH9e=-UF2WzUXs1NgU0CQ@mail.gmail.com>

bonjour Yuliya,

compte surtf moi, je suis interesse par cet atelier

Baudouin

2012/11/4 Yuliya Morenets <y.morenets at againstcybercrime.eu>

> Dear all,
>
> I would like to communicate this information and  invite all to attend
> (physically or remotely) the workshop TaC organizes in Baku,
>
> WS 168, Capacity building Initiatives for better economic and social
> inclusion of vulnerable people in the Information society, that will take
> place on the 7th of November, 11:00-12:30, room 10.
>
> The detailed flyer is attached.
>
> I hope that this list members will find the subject interesting.
>
> The workshop speakers are:
> Mr Zahid U. Jamil- Co-moderator, Barrister Esq.&#8232;&#8232;, Director,
> Developing Country Center for Cybercrime & Law - Jamil & Jamil
> Barristers-at-law (confirmed)
> Ms Yuliya Morenets- Co-moderator, TaC-Together against Cybercrime
> (confirmed)
>
> Mr Wolf Ludwig- Euralo/ICANN (confirmed)
> Mr Khaled Fattal- Multilingual Internet Group (confirmed)
> Ms Danielle de Groot Msc- Council of Chiefs of Police, Netherlands
> (confirmed)
> Ms Lara Pace-COMNET (confirmed)
> Mr Pavan Duggal- President, Cyberlaws.net, The Associated Chambers of
> Commerce and Industry of India (confirmed)
> Ms Barbara-Chiara Ubaldi- OECD (confirmed)
> Mr Stuart Hamilton- IFLA-International federation of Library Associations
> and Institutions (confirmed)
> African Union Representative (confirmed)
>
> Ms Roxana Radu- remote moderator (confirmed)
>
> With best regards,
> Yuliya Morenets
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
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>
>


-- 
SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN
CENTRE AFRICAIN D'ECHANGE CULTUREL/
ACADEMIE DES TIC
FACILITATEUR GAID/AFRIQUE Membre
At-Large Member
NCSG Member

email:baudouin.schombe at gmail.com
         baudouin.schombe at ticafrica.net
tél:+243998983491
skype:b.schombe
wite web:http://webmail.ticafrica.net
blog:http://akimambo.unblog.fr
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From bnkuerbi at syr.edu  Mon Nov  5 04:09:04 2012
From: bnkuerbi at syr.edu (Brenden Kuerbis)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 04:09:04 -0500
Subject: [governance] Invitation to Workshop 163: Governing Identity on the
 Internet
Message-ID: <CANwsP3CqdFyUNQvBBbi0a0LF_HgoRdWZ_tLSRiVSztnGBfsbqg@mail.gmail.com>

FYI, hope you'll join us.


#IGF12 WorkShop 163: “GOVERNING IDENTITY ON THE INTERNET”

THR NOV 8, 2012 | 11:00-12:30 | Conf. Room 9

From single-sign-on to federated systems to WHOIS data associated with
Internet resources, countless individuals, business and government
organizations have a stake in Internet identity information and its
governance.  A workshop on “Governing Identity on the Internet” will be
held on Thursday, November 8, 2012 from 11:00-12:30 (local Baku time) in
Conference Room 9 (click here to see other time zones and add the event to
your calendar<http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=IGF+WORKSHOP+ON+%22GOVERNING+IDENTITY+ON+THE+INTERNET%22&iso=20121108T11&p1=369&ah=1&am=30>)
at the upcoming Internet Governance Forum in Baku, Azerbaijan.  Moderated
by Postdoctoral Fellow Brenden Kuerbis, the workshop is co-organized by the
The Citizen Lab at University of Toronto and the Internet Society. Remote
participation link for this session can be found here:
http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/remote-participation/connect-now

While territorially-based governments have historically played a central
role in their citizens’ identity, it is private service providers and
individual users that might be considered the de facto managers of Internet
identity information.  Private, rule-based arrangements (e.g., “trust
frameworks”) have emerged in many industry sectors to help manage Internet
identity transactions.  Nonetheless, many states are actively pursuing
digital identity efforts (OECD 2011), including the United States
government’s National Strategy for Trusted Identity in Cyberspace (NSTIC)
which is standing up a governance body and the European Commission’s
proposed regulation on electronic identification and trusted services for
electronic transactions. These efforts seek to promote greater adoption and
interoperability of Internet identity solutions.  What are the appropriate
roles of governments, the private sector and individuals in Internet
identity? Are there benefits or risks of various Internet identity
governance solutions being proposed?  How compatible are they with the
transnational nature of the Internet? Which stakeholders will determine the
standards and policies for how Internet identity information is created,
transmitted, utilized, or protected?

Panelists include:


   - Naomi Lefkovitz, Senior Privacy Advisor, National Strategy for Trusted
   Identities in Cyberspace (NSTIC) National Program Office, NIST, United
   States Dept of Commerce (pre-recorded)
   - Andrea Servida, Head of Task Force “Legislation Team (eIDAS)”,
   European Commission (remote)
   - Robin Wilton, Technical Outreach for Identity and Privacy, Internet
   Society
   - Malavika Jayaram, Fellow, Centre for Internet & Society
   - Mawaki Chango, Africa Internet Policy Coordinator, Association for
   Progressive Communications
   - Marc Crandall, Google
   - Bill Smith, Technology Evangelist, Paypal


This workshop feeds into the main session discussion on Security, Openness,
and Privacy on Thursday, Nov 8 from 15:00-18:00 (local Baku time).
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From suresh at hserus.net  Mon Nov  5 05:36:26 2012
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 16:06:26 +0530
Subject: [governance] ITRs
In-Reply-To: <5090834B.4020409@gmx.net>
References: <508E3DFE.90606@itforchange.net> <508F7E73.70307@cavebear.com> <8A9113EA-A478-4093-94BE-4A1A8C6B4910@virtualized.org> <5090834B.4020409@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <BC2A16A5-7518-4051-B119-F6A663C4F4C0@hserus.net>

"excessive interest in minor details" .. ah, a pedant, to be sure.

But yes, that's pejorative to an extent.  It would certainly help if more geeks (there, another pejorative word) take a broader interest in policy .. as it would if more policy wonks actually knew some of the fundamentals of routing, peering, IP allocation etc before they started commenting on internet governance.

--srs (iPad)

On 31-Oct-2012, at 7:17, Norbert Klein <nhklein at gmx.net> wrote:

> On 10/30/2012 10:48 PM, [somebody] wrote:
>> wonk code
> Have mercy with us who are still not native speakers of the language of the Angels=Anglish-English:
> 
> = =
> wonk
> Concise Oxford English Dictionary © 2008 Oxford University Press:
> wonk/wɒŋk/ 
> ▶noun N. Amer. informal, derogatory
> 1 a studious or hard-working person.
> ■ (often policy wonk) a person who takes an excessive interest in minor details of political policy.
> 
> 2 nautical slang an incompetent or inexperienced sailor, especially a naval cadet.
> – derivatives 
> wonkish adjective.
> – origin 1920s: of unknown origin.
> = =
> 
> Do I now understand this sentence:
> 
> "I suspect this is policy wonk code for national-level control/administration of RPKI/BGPSEC."
> 
> Somewhat. - Not really.
> 
> 
> Norbert Klein
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
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From william.drake at uzh.ch  Mon Nov  5 06:35:52 2012
From: william.drake at uzh.ch (William Drake)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 15:35:52 +0400
Subject: [governance] Meeting with US gov
In-Reply-To: <50538B18.8070204@apc.org>
References: <2FFF6C8B-AB51-44C3-9F4A-59B48F743D4B@apc.org> <50536371.6020100@apc.org> <8CF60B72476B741-128C-62EFC@webmail-m155.sysops.aol.com> <50538B18.8070204@apc.org>
Message-ID: <91CE1491-95FB-4271-BE12-9406B9EBEAFA@uzh.ch>

Hello

I'm organizing a meeting between a few CS people from the US WCIT del etc with Larry Strickling (Asst. Secretary of Commerce), Fiona Alexander (head of international at NTIA), Terry Kramer (US Ambassaor to WCIT), and Manu Bhardwaj (Dept. of State).  This will be 18:00 tomorrow, Tuesday at the IGF site.  It looks like the room they've given us is big enough to accommodate more CS people, so if anyone would like to join, please contact me off list.

Best

Bill

*****************************************************
William J. Drake
International Fellow
Media Change & Innovation Division, IPMZ
University of Zurich, Switzerland
william.drake at uzh.ch
www.mediachange.ch/people/william-j-drake
www.williamdrake.org
*****************************************************
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From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de  Mon Nov  5 07:05:00 2012
From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang=22?=)
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 13:05:00 +0100
Subject: [governance] Meeting with US gov
References: <2FFF6C8B-AB51-44C3-9F4A-59B48F743D4B@apc.org>
 <50536371.6020100@apc.org>
 <8CF60B72476B741-128C-62EFC@webmail-m155.sysops.aol.com>
 <50538B18.8070204@apc.org> <91CE1491-95FB-4271-BE12-9406B9EBEAFA@uzh.ch>
Message-ID:  <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD593@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>


I plan too come w

-----Original Message-----
From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org on behalf of William Drake
Sent: Mon 11/5/2012 12:35 PM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
Subject: [governance] Meeting with US gov
 
Hello

I'm organizing a meeting between a few CS people from the US WCIT del etc with Larry Strickling (Asst. Secretary of Commerce), Fiona Alexander (head of international at NTIA), Terry Kramer (US Ambassaor to WCIT), and Manu Bhardwaj (Dept. of State).  This will be 18:00 tomorrow, Tuesday at the IGF site.  It looks like the room they've given us is big enough to accommodate more CS people, so if anyone would like to join, please contact me off list.

Best

Bill

*****************************************************
William J. Drake
International Fellow
Media Change & Innovation Division, IPMZ
University of Zurich, Switzerland
william.drake at uzh.ch
www.mediachange.ch/people/william-j-drake
www.williamdrake.org
*****************************************************


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From iza at anr.org  Mon Nov  5 07:18:42 2012
From: iza at anr.org (Izumi AIZU)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 21:18:42 +0900
Subject: [governance] Fwd: members for EU/EP meeting
In-Reply-To: <CA+YNoKhGVOi2yPQ44Xod6Z8Q7=4qo7TQ3=6Xu4OgsNCVQYOXsw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKhGVOi2yPQ44Xod6Z8Q7=4qo7TQ3=6Xu4OgsNCVQYOXsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+YNoKgAD3SeYMxeyi+JO0JSK=ynFnXNvRVEgFZniEX=EZ79Ug@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list,
Now I made the selection, was difficult, yes indeed.

Based on gender, regional and sub-regoinal balances, and first-come
basis combined within the same regional folks, the following six
people are selected:

Baudouin Schembe
Tijani BEN JEMAA
YJ Park
Oksana Prykhodko
Wolfgang Benedek
Sivasubramanian M

There were two females and 9 males, 6 from Asia Pacific, 3 from
Africa, and 2 from Europe. There are also sub-regional components.

I excluded former co-coordinators and MAG members, with my discretion,
since their voices are relatively well-heard compared with others
within IGF community.

I am sorry to those who were not included, but since the organizer
told us 5-6 is
the max number, we have to narrow them down, as described in the first
place of this
thread.

Of course, this is not be the perfect selection, but I hope you all to
understand and support this under the very tight situation.

Many thanks,

izumi, came to Baku late last night

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From gurstein at gmail.com  Mon Nov  5 07:25:00 2012
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 16:25:00 +0400
Subject: [governance] ITRs
In-Reply-To: <5090834B.4020409@gmx.net>
References: <508E3DFE.90606@itforchange.net> <508F7E73.70307@cavebear.com> <8A9113EA-A478-4093-94BE-4A1A8C6B4910@virtualized.org> <5090834B.4020409@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <089a01cdbb50$951e9680$bf5bc380$@gmail.com>

Think "nerd"…

 

M

 

From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Norbert Klein
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 5:48 AM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
Subject: [governance] ITRs

 

On 10/30/2012 10:48 PM, [somebody] wrote:

wonk code

Have mercy with us who are still not native speakers of the language of the Angels=Anglish-English:

= =
wonk
Concise Oxford English Dictionary © 2008 Oxford University Press:
wonk/wɒŋk/ 

▶noun N. Amer. informal, derogatory 

*	1 a studious or hard-working person. 

■ (often policy wonk) a person who takes an excessive interest in minor details of political policy.

*	2 nautical slang an incompetent or inexperienced sailor, especially a naval cadet.

– derivatives 
wonkish adjective. 

– origin 1920s: of unknown origin.
= =

Do I now understand this sentence:

"I suspect this is policy wonk code for national-level control/administration of RPKI/BGPSEC."

Somewhat. - Not really.


Norbert Klein

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From iza at anr.org  Mon Nov  5 08:21:36 2012
From: iza at anr.org (Izumi AIZU)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 22:21:36 +0900
Subject: [governance] Meeting with US gov
In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD593@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
References: <2FFF6C8B-AB51-44C3-9F4A-59B48F743D4B@apc.org> <50536371.6020100@apc.org>
 <8CF60B72476B741-128C-62EFC@webmail-m155.sysops.aol.com> <50538B18.8070204@apc.org>
 <91CE1491-95FB-4271-BE12-9406B9EBEAFA@uzh.ch> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD593@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
Message-ID: <CA+YNoKi-AfmLM2CKKgJQ42JzWqDgkhCE5wsvnTVfOEnZr3wLoA@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Bill for your effort.

I also plan to come, and then to Gala reception starting at 7 pm?

izumi

2012/11/5 "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang"
<wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de>:
>
> I plan too come w
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org on behalf of William Drake
> Sent: Mon 11/5/2012 12:35 PM
> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> Subject: [governance] Meeting with US gov
>
> Hello
>
> I'm organizing a meeting between a few CS people from the US WCIT del etc with Larry Strickling (Asst. Secretary of Commerce), Fiona Alexander (head of international at NTIA), Terry Kramer (US Ambassaor to WCIT), and Manu Bhardwaj (Dept. of State).  This will be 18:00 tomorrow, Tuesday at the IGF site.  It looks like the room they've given us is big enough to accommodate more CS people, so if anyone would like to join, please contact me off list.
>
> Best
>
> Bill
>
> *****************************************************
> William J. Drake
> International Fellow
> Media Change & Innovation Division, IPMZ
> University of Zurich, Switzerland
> william.drake at uzh.ch
> www.mediachange.ch/people/william-j-drake
> www.williamdrake.org
> *****************************************************
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
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>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>



-- 
                     >> Izumi Aizu <<
Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
Japan
www.anr.org

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From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com  Mon Nov  5 08:33:21 2012
From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 02:33:21 +1300
Subject: [governance] Update from the Pacific
Message-ID: <CAJwbTiC=m0yuosY_V3iNpr+YO98AtgnNcLDBLYjBqzUSQKPVvA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear All,

I wish you well in the course of your discussions, dialogue in what is
possibly the most interesting junction in Internet Governance. I am excited
to see the diverse workshops and people being activated from within the IGC
and beyond. I am also encouraged to see the likes of the Ministers who are
giving the opportunity for continued dialogue and it signals to me the
desire to listen and hear which is always a good sign.

The future of Internet Governance is no doubt a challenging one. In all my
participation, it has often pained me to see the lack of participation from
my side of the world particularly from the Pacific. My time and energy is
being consumed in designing a sustainable model that will encourage and
provide empowerment for the Pacific in preparation greater policy
immersion, participation and involvement. We are organising a Youth Tech
Camp in Fiji, see: http://youthtechcamp.brightpathfoundation.org/
for the Pacific youth (15 years to 35 years).

I will be streaming into the IGF and participating in 3 workshops, one with
the RIRs on Critical Internet Resources (Transitioning to IPv6), the other
one on Small Island Development States and their Issues and thirdly the
Commonwealth Cyber Crime session organised by Lara Pace.

I wish you all well.

With every best wish,

-- 
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
P.O. Box 17862
Suva
Fiji

Twitter: @SalanietaT
Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
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From jeremy at ciroap.org  Mon Nov  5 10:47:37 2012
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 19:47:37 +0400
Subject: [governance] Censorship of postcards at the IGF
References: <CAJOH5-xoN0bQ0C0hHecJhJxdqrdOz5rQZCEE3txTk=gB-ddfYg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F02AE67F-61B0-464E-9132-8AE17B7D506A@ciroap.org>

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Donny B.U." <dbu at donnybu.com>
> Date: 5 November, 2012 7:17:03 PM GMT+04:00
> To: Arthit Suriyawongkul <arthit at gmail.com>
> Cc: Valeria Betancourt <valeriab at apc.org>, Veridiana Alimonti <veridiana at idec.org.br>,  Ginger Paque <gpaque at gmail.com>, "Carlos A. Afonso" <ca at cafonso.ca>,  Pranesh Prakash <pranesh at cis-india.org>,  "<bestbits at lists.igcaucus.org>" <bestbits at lists.igcaucus.org>
> Subject: sorry, OOT --> Re: WCIT Statement
> sorry, oot.
> 
> just want to give update, these 2 type of postcards from indonesia civil society are not allowed to be distributed at igf2012 baku by un officer. the postcards message about #censorship that could makes (any) certain government unhappy, according to UN officer. and any materials distributed in the UN jurisdiction/event, such as IGF, must get approval 1st by UN or IGF committee. that's the rule and written, as they said to me, couple moment ago.
> 
> f-dbu-
> 
> On Monday, November 5, 2012, Arthit Suriyawongkul wrote:
>> Pranesh,
>> 
>> Thai Netizen Network endorse this statement as well.
>> 
>> Thanks everybody for all the efforts.
>> 
>> cheers,
>> Art
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> เครือข่ายพลเมืองเน็ต -- "เปิดเน็ต เปิดใจ"
>> Thai Netizen Network -- "Open Net. Open Mind."
>> https://www.facebook.com/thainetizen
> 
> 
> -- 
> e: dbu at donnybu.com | t: @donnybu | f: donnybu | w: donnybu.com | p: +62818930932
> 
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From admin at alkasir.com  Mon Nov  5 10:49:29 2012
From: admin at alkasir.com (Walid AL-SAQAF <alkasir admin>)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 16:49:29 +0100
Subject: [governance] Censorship of postcards at the IGF
In-Reply-To: <F02AE67F-61B0-464E-9132-8AE17B7D506A@ciroap.org>
References: <CAJOH5-xoN0bQ0C0hHecJhJxdqrdOz5rQZCEE3txTk=gB-ddfYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<F02AE67F-61B0-464E-9132-8AE17B7D506A@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <CAKJSUiw6o-kEmcBjx5S9hY-Q9j92rSqhydUc2s2HyW+yBTe0ug@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Jeremy,

Kind of reminds of the 2005 WSIS conference in Tunis. History does repeat
itself though in different places and contexts!

Sincerely,

Walid

-----------------

Walid Al-Saqaf
Founder & Administrator
alkasir for mapping and circumventing cyber censorship
https://alkasir.com <walid.al-saqaf at oru.se>


On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 4:47 PM, Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org> wrote:

> Begin forwarded message:
>
> *From:* "Donny B.U." <dbu at donnybu.com>
> *Date:* 5 November, 2012 7:17:03 PM GMT+04:00
> *To:* Arthit Suriyawongkul <arthit at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* Valeria Betancourt <valeriab at apc.org>, Veridiana Alimonti <
> veridiana at idec.org.br>,  Ginger Paque <gpaque at gmail.com>, "Carlos A.
> Afonso" <ca at cafonso.ca>,  Pranesh Prakash <pranesh at cis-india.org>,  "<
> bestbits at lists.igcaucus.org>" <bestbits at lists.igcaucus.org>
> *Subject:* *sorry, OOT --> Re: WCIT Statement*
>
> sorry, oot.
>
> just want to give update, these 2 type of postcards from indonesia civil
> society are not allowed to be distributed at igf2012 baku by un officer.
> the postcards message about #censorship that could makes (any) certain
> government unhappy, according to UN officer. and any materials distributed
> in the UN jurisdiction/event, such as IGF, must get approval 1st by UN or
> IGF committee. that's the rule and written, as they said to me, couple
> moment ago.
>
> f-dbu-
>
> On Monday, November 5, 2012, Arthit Suriyawongkul wrote:
>
>> Pranesh,
>>
>> Thai Netizen Network endorse this statement as well.
>>
>> Thanks everybody for all the efforts.
>>
>> cheers,
>> Art
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> เครือข่ายพลเมืองเน็ต -- "เปิดเน็ต เปิดใจ"
>> Thai Netizen Network -- "Open Net. Open Mind."
>> https://www.facebook.com/thainetizen
>>
>
>
> --
> e: dbu at donnybu.com | t: @donnybu | f: donnybu | w: donnybu.com | p:
> +62818930932
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
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From tijani.benjemaa at planet.tn  Mon Nov  5 11:29:03 2012
From: tijani.benjemaa at planet.tn (tijani.benjemaa at planet.tn)
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 17:29:03 +0100
Subject: [governance] AFRALO Workshop @ IGF 2012 in Baku
In-Reply-To: <F02AE67F-61B0-464E-9132-8AE17B7D506A@ciroap.org>
References: <CAJOH5-xoN0bQ0C0hHecJhJxdqrdOz5rQZCEE3txTk=gB-ddfYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <F02AE67F-61B0-464E-9132-8AE17B7D506A@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <6e51ee5e-1f9c-433c-b9f3-e83f69c2ccc2@planet.tn>

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From drc at virtualized.org  Mon Nov  5 11:34:12 2012
From: drc at virtualized.org (David Conrad)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 08:34:12 -0800
Subject: [governance] ITRs
In-Reply-To: <5090834B.4020409@gmx.net>
References: <508E3DFE.90606@itforchange.net> <508F7E73.70307@cavebear.com> <8A9113EA-A478-4093-94BE-4A1A8C6B4910@virtualized.org> <5090834B.4020409@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <E4C09FB3-76C1-4FDD-B20A-E0298584E957@virtualized.org>

Norbert,

On Oct 30, 2012, at 6:47 PM, Norbert Klein <nhklein at gmx.net> wrote:
> On 10/30/2012 10:48 PM, [somebody] wrote:
>> wonk code
> Have mercy with us who are still not native speakers of the language of the Angels=Anglish-English:

Sincere apologies. I had thought 'policy wonk' was a common term of art on this list.

My interpretation of that term is an individual who focuses on/has deep interest in/lives and breathes the creation of policy.

> Do I now understand this sentence:
> 
> "I suspect this is policy wonk code for national-level control/administration of RPKI/BGPSEC."
> 
> Somewhat. - Not really.

A bit of high level background (skip if you know what RPKI/BGPSEC is):

One of the biggest security weaknesses on the internet today is the routing system. Some folks call the way the current routing system works as "routing by rumor" -- ISPs trust that the routing information they get from their peers is sane, implicitly trusting that information even if it is obtained from their peers' peers with whom they have no direct relationship/no way to verify sanity (and their peers' peers' peers, and so on).  This leads to (not infrequent) events where bad routing information is propagated (the Pakistan Telecom/YouTube incident is one example), bad guys pop up on stolen address space to blast out spam, "man in the middle" attacks, etc.

RPKI/BGPSEC is a set of technologies currently being specified/developed/tested/deployed within the IETF, the RIRs, the router vendors, and (some) ISPs to improve the security of the routing system.  These technologies provides for a way of tying resources (e.g., address blocks) to the entity to which the resources have been allocated.  This allows software to be written that can (e.g.) help an ISP verify that the address space their customer just presented to them is actually address space that the customer is documented as having, ensure that routing information hasn't been tampered with in transit, etc.  RPKI (Resource Public Key Infrastructure) does the tying using strong cryptographic certificates (using X.509, the same technology used in SSL/HTTPS).  BGPSEC (Border Gateway Protocol Security) is a way to secure the routing information using the resource/resource "owner" relationships defined by RPKI. 

As currently specified by the IETF, RPKI assumes the certification of "ownership" of resources strictly follows the allocation hierarchy, that is IANA gives the "title" of resources to the RIRs, the RIRs gives the title of resources to ISPs, and ISPs gives the title of resources to their customers (I'll skip over the part where the IANA isn't actually participating as yet as it just spikes my blood pressure).  BGPSEC is intended to be advisory, allowing ISPs to set up filters of routing information based on local policy that would (presumably) include whether the RPKI information they receive from their customers and peers validates correctly.

So, with the RPKI/BGPSEC stuff understood: 

My suspicion is that there are folks within (or more likely consulting to) governments that are aware of RPKI/BGPSEC efforts and the implications of those technologies and are trying to insert wording into the ITRs that will allow for national-level control/administration of RPKI/BGPSEC.  However, RPKI/BGPSEC is far too technical for the ITRs, so more general, higher level language ("policy wonk code") is used instead.

As Alejandro suggests, I may be giving the folks proposing that language too much credit. However, the alternative would (as Karl aptly described) imply a level of ignorance in the way the Internet works that I would find ... depressing.

Regards,
-drc

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From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com  Mon Nov  5 13:02:01 2012
From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 20:02:01 +0200
Subject: [governance] Censorship of postcards at the IGF
In-Reply-To: <F02AE67F-61B0-464E-9132-8AE17B7D506A@ciroap.org>
References: <CAJOH5-xoN0bQ0C0hHecJhJxdqrdOz5rQZCEE3txTk=gB-ddfYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <F02AE67F-61B0-464E-9132-8AE17B7D506A@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <CABBOhxrGQWMdzeTxo-_kVcZMT4ByD83uEhscjV3_zkBcFHvFgw@mail.gmail.com>

Rumor has it that Indonesia is expected to host the 8th IGF meeting in
Jakarta. Such banners seem weird for a country willing to host this annual
event (unless the rumor is a wrong one or has been amended over time).

Fahd

On Nov 5, 2012 6:47 PM, "Jeremy Malcolm" <jeremy at ciroap.org> wrote:

> Begin forwarded message:
>
> *From:* "Donny B.U." <dbu at donnybu.com>
> *Date:* 5 November, 2012 7:17:03 PM GMT+04:00
> *To:* Arthit Suriyawongkul <arthit at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* Valeria Betancourt <valeriab at apc.org>, Veridiana Alimonti <
> veridiana at idec.org.br>,  Ginger Paque <gpaque at gmail.com>, "Carlos A.
> Afonso" <ca at cafonso.ca>,  Pranesh Prakash <pranesh at cis-india.org>,  "<
> bestbits at lists.igcaucus.org>" <bestbits at lists.igcaucus.org>
> *Subject:* *sorry, OOT --> Re: WCIT Statement*
>
> sorry, oot.
>
> just want to give update, these 2 type of postcards from indonesia civil
> society are not allowed to be distributed at igf2012 baku by un officer.
> the postcards message about #censorship that could makes (any) certain
> government unhappy, according to UN officer. and any materials distributed
> in the UN jurisdiction/event, such as IGF, must get approval 1st by UN or
> IGF committee. that's the rule and written, as they said to me, couple
> moment ago.
>
> f-dbu-
>
> On Monday, November 5, 2012, Arthit Suriyawongkul wrote:
>
>> Pranesh,
>>
>>  Thai Netizen Network endorse this statement as well.
>>
>> Thanks everybody for all the efforts.
>>
>> cheers,
>> Art
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> เครือข่ายพลเมืองเน็ต -- "เปิดเน็ต เปิดใจ"
>> Thai Netizen Network -- "Open Net. Open Mind."
>> https://www.facebook.com/thainetizen
>>
>
>
> --
> e: dbu at donnybu.com | t: @donnybu | f: donnybu | w: donnybu.com | p:
> +62818930932
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
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From apisan at unam.mx  Mon Nov  5 14:22:45 2012
From: apisan at unam.mx (Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 19:22:45 +0000
Subject: [governance] URGENT- meeting with the Indian minister
In-Reply-To: <CAEP5zKTWKyc37YBr8H_7PXyfxioXr57O_hg3kMoqk4EQEZEoRw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7ec29a619dcfb65e02aecea972251c9f.squirrel@www.itforchange.net>
	<CAJwbTiBFKCwx1QcmVkKCYPWJtVrTh8U8TRsxB2mOcu6PfOm-vg@mail.gmail.com>,<CAEP5zKTWKyc37YBr8H_7PXyfxioXr57O_hg3kMoqk4EQEZEoRw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D59F292A2@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local>

Chaitanya,

the most interesting aspect of this meeting with the Indian Minister for IT will be to see if there remains any endorsement for CIRP after today's meeting on enhanced cooperation, particularly any official endorsement from the Indian Government. When will trustworthy notes from that meeting be released? What representation of the official position of the government of India is authoritative? (Parminder, your complaint that governments are not well coordinated would be most pertinent here, if I understood/recall it well.)

Parminder, could you ratify/clarify a statement you made at the end, just because the microphones were turned off? I heard you say "maybe the oversight part should not be included". This - for those not present - was after Parminder said that the CIRP proposal does not affect any existing Internet Governance mechanisms, and Bill Drake read text (which was also readable in the rolling transcript) proving that it does, and does more, like propose CIRP to perform arbitration and other functions.

Yours,

Alejandro Pisanty


! !! !!! !!!!
NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO



+52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD

+525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO

SMS +525541444475
     Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico

Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
.  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .

________________________________
Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Chaitanya Dhareshwar [chaitanyabd at gmail.com]
Enviado el: domingo, 04 de noviembre de 2012 22:45
Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro
CC: parminder at itforchange.net
Asunto: Re: [governance] URGENT- meeting with the Indian minister

+1 Great stuff Parminder! I'm assuming there will be some sort of summary/minutes of the meeting so the rest of us have an idea of what the good minister's plans are for the future.

-C

On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 1:17 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com<mailto:salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com>> wrote:
Dear All,

This is excellent Parminder and a great opportunity to engage in dialogue.

Kind Regards,
Sala

On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 8:31 AM, <parminder at itforchange.net<mailto:parminder at itforchange.net>> wrote:


Dear All

The Indian minister for IT will like to meet civil members tomorrow
morning at 930 AM at the Park Hyatt Hotel, here in Baku.

I know this is pretty late to inform you about it but \i have personally
invited almost all civil society guys who are already at Baku for the
bestbits meeting. However, there may be others who may have reached Baku
and be interested to meet the minister, in which case please do consider
yourself invited, in case you can make it to Park Hyatt by 930 AM.

parminder



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--
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
P.O. Box 17862
Suva
Fiji

Twitter: @SalanietaT
Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851





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From pouzin at well.com  Mon Nov  5 20:46:33 2012
From: pouzin at well.com (Louis Pouzin (well))
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 02:46:33 +0100
Subject: [governance] members for EU/EP meeting
In-Reply-To: <CA+YNoKgAD3SeYMxeyi+JO0JSK=ynFnXNvRVEgFZniEX=EZ79Ug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKhGVOi2yPQ44Xod6Z8Q7=4qo7TQ3=6Xu4OgsNCVQYOXsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+YNoKgAD3SeYMxeyi+JO0JSK=ynFnXNvRVEgFZniEX=EZ79Ug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+EjHYoaBBRSuADV2pFyPAzGDTChw6NhN1q0D2DPb_dd6CH3rw@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Izumi.
No problem with the selection.
Have the selected ones committed to produce a report, and when ?

Louis
- - -

On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 1:18 PM, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:

> Dear list,
> Now I made the selection, was difficult, yes indeed.
>
> Based on gender, regional and sub-regoinal balances, and first-come
> basis combined within the same regional folks, the following six
> people are selected:
>
> Baudouin Schembe
> Tijani BEN JEMAA
> YJ Park
> Oksana Prykhodko
> Wolfgang Benedek
> Sivasubramanian M
>
> There were two females and 9 males, 6 from Asia Pacific, 3 from
> Africa, and 2 from Europe. There are also sub-regional components.
>
> I excluded former co-coordinators and MAG members, with my discretion,
> since their voices are relatively well-heard compared with others
> within IGF community.
>
> I am sorry to those who were not included, but since the organizer
> told us 5-6 is
> the max number, we have to narrow them down, as described in the first
> place of this
> thread.
>
> Of course, this is not be the perfect selection, but I hope you all to
> understand and support this under the very tight situation.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> izumi, came to Baku late last night
>
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From chaitanyabd at gmail.com  Mon Nov  5 22:27:33 2012
From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 08:57:33 +0530
Subject: [governance] URGENT- meeting with the Indian minister
In-Reply-To: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D59F292A2@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local>
References: <7ec29a619dcfb65e02aecea972251c9f.squirrel@www.itforchange.net>
	<CAJwbTiBFKCwx1QcmVkKCYPWJtVrTh8U8TRsxB2mOcu6PfOm-vg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEP5zKTWKyc37YBr8H_7PXyfxioXr57O_hg3kMoqk4EQEZEoRw@mail.gmail.com>
	<6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D59F292A2@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local>
Message-ID: <CAEP5zKTxRrMPkir8K9TdnyOPGFKcn3vLUE6qBxrvZ5iUwcHUFg@mail.gmail.com>

Alex, the way I see it the whole point of having Kapil Sibal (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapil_Sibal) be there would be to represent
the government and the government's interests (yes I remember 'government'
having 'interests' is not particularly positive from a previous discussion
- but bear with me here). It's very true that governments are not well
coordinated - I mean the minister for IT visiting an international
conference (and representing 'India' instead of 'indian government') IMHO
should have been in the papers a week before the fact (because it's a big
positive step/attitude change). And he should make a formal statement when
he comes back about where they see India in the future and how we can do
better, key learnings, etc.

I'm sure there will be good notes and as we discuss them here we'll
naturally come to understand if anything has been 'edited' out. I don't
think that'll be such a problem....

Still rolling with laughter about 'oversight part should not be
included'...

-C

On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 12:52 AM, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch <
apisan at unam.mx> wrote:

>  Chaitanya,
>
>  the most interesting aspect of this meeting with the Indian Minister for
> IT will be to see if there remains any endorsement for CIRP after today's
> meeting on enhanced cooperation, particularly any official endorsement from
> the Indian Government. When will trustworthy notes from that meeting be
> released? What representation of the official position of the government of
> India is authoritative? (Parminder, your complaint that governments are not
> well coordinated would be most pertinent here, if I understood/recall it
> well.)
>
>  Parminder, could you ratify/clarify a statement you made at the end,
> just because the microphones were turned off? I heard you say "maybe the
> oversight part should not be included". This - for those not present - was
> after Parminder said that the CIRP proposal does not affect any existing
> Internet Governance mechanisms, and Bill Drake read text (which was also
> readable in the rolling transcript) proving that it does, and does more,
> like propose CIRP to perform arbitration and other functions.
>
>  Yours,
>
>  Alejandro Pisanty
>
>
> ! !! !!! !!!!
> NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO
>
>
>
> +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
>
> +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO
>
> SMS +525541444475
>      Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
> UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>
> Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
> Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,
> http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
>   ------------------------------
> *Desde:* governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [
> governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Chaitanya Dhareshwar [
> chaitanyabd at gmail.com]
> *Enviado el:* domingo, 04 de noviembre de 2012 22:45
> *Hasta:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro
> *CC:* parminder at itforchange.net
> *Asunto:* Re: [governance] URGENT- meeting with the Indian minister
>
>   +1 Great stuff Parminder! I'm assuming there will be some sort of
> summary/minutes of the meeting so the rest of us have an idea of what the
> good minister's plans are for the future.
>
> -C
>
>  On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 1:17 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <
> salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear All,
>>
>>  This is excellent Parminder and a great opportunity to engage in
>> dialogue.
>>
>>  Kind Regards,
>> Sala
>>
>>  On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 8:31 AM, <parminder at itforchange.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear All
>>>
>>> The Indian minister for IT will like to meet civil members tomorrow
>>> morning at 930 AM at the Park Hyatt Hotel, here in Baku.
>>>
>>> I know this is pretty late to inform you about it but \i have personally
>>> invited almost all civil society guys who are already at Baku for the
>>> bestbits meeting. However, there may be others who may have reached Baku
>>> and be interested to meet the minister, in which case please do consider
>>> yourself invited, in case you can make it to Park Hyatt by 930 AM.
>>>
>>> parminder
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>  --
>> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
>> P.O. Box 17862
>> Suva
>> Fiji
>>
>>  Twitter: @SalanietaT
>> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
>> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>
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From suresh at hserus.net  Mon Nov  5 22:46:10 2012
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 09:16:10 +0530
Subject: [governance] URGENT- meeting with the Indian minister
In-Reply-To: <CAEP5zKTxRrMPkir8K9TdnyOPGFKcn3vLUE6qBxrvZ5iUwcHUFg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7ec29a619dcfb65e02aecea972251c9f.squirrel@www.itforchange.net> <CAJwbTiBFKCwx1QcmVkKCYPWJtVrTh8U8TRsxB2mOcu6PfOm-vg@mail.gmail.com> <CAEP5zKTWKyc37YBr8H_7PXyfxioXr57O_hg3kMoqk4EQEZEoRw@mail.gmail.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D59F292A2@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> <CAEP5zKTxRrMPkir8K9TdnyOPGFKcn3vLUE6qBxrvZ5iUwcHUFg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <919CAAE3-B3BA-45CE-9B3D-8FEE4E2FA280@hserus.net>

Maybe cirp should just be scrapped ..

--srs (iPad)

On 06-Nov-2012, at 8:57, Chaitanya Dhareshwar <chaitanyabd at gmail.com> wrote:

> Alex, the way I see it the whole point of having Kapil Sibal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapil_Sibal) be there would be to represent the government and the government's interests (yes I remember 'government' having 'interests' is not particularly positive from a previous discussion - but bear with me here). It's very true that governments are not well coordinated - I mean the minister for IT visiting an international conference (and representing 'India' instead of 'indian government') IMHO should have been in the papers a week before the fact (because it's a big positive step/attitude change). And he should make a formal statement when he comes back about where they see India in the future and how we can do better, key learnings, etc.
>  
> I'm sure there will be good notes and as we discuss them here we'll naturally come to understand if anything has been 'edited' out. I don't think that'll be such a problem....
>  
> Still rolling with laughter about 'oversight part should not be included'...
>  
> -C
> 
> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 12:52 AM, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch <apisan at unam.mx> wrote:
>> Chaitanya,
>> 
>> the most interesting aspect of this meeting with the Indian Minister for IT will be to see if there remains any endorsement for CIRP after today's meeting on enhanced cooperation, particularly any official endorsement from the Indian Government. When will trustworthy notes from that meeting be released? What representation of the official position of the government of India is authoritative? (Parminder, your complaint that governments are not well coordinated would be most pertinent here, if I understood/recall it well.) 
>> 
>> Parminder, could you ratify/clarify a statement you made at the end, just because the microphones were turned off? I heard you say "maybe the oversight part should not be included". This - for those not present - was after Parminder said that the CIRP proposal does not affect any existing Internet Governance mechanisms, and Bill Drake read text (which was also readable in the rolling transcript) proving that it does, and does more, like propose CIRP to perform arbitration and other functions. 
>> 
>> Yours,
>> 
>> Alejandro Pisanty
>> 
>>   
>> ! !! !!! !!!!
>> NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO
>>  
>> 
>> +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
>> 
>> +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO
>> 
>> SMS +525541444475 
>>      Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
>> UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>> 
>> Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
>> Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
>> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
>> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  . 
>> 
>> Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Chaitanya Dhareshwar [chaitanyabd at gmail.com]
>> Enviado el: domingo, 04 de noviembre de 2012 22:45
>> Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro
>> CC: parminder at itforchange.net
>> Asunto: Re: [governance] URGENT- meeting with the Indian minister
>> 
>> +1 Great stuff Parminder! I'm assuming there will be some sort of summary/minutes of the meeting so the rest of us have an idea of what the good minister's plans are for the future.
>>  
>> -C
>> 
>> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 1:17 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Dear All,
>>> 
>>> This is excellent Parminder and a great opportunity to engage in dialogue.
>>> 
>>> Kind Regards,
>>> Sala
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 8:31 AM, <parminder at itforchange.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Dear All
>>>> 
>>>> The Indian minister for IT will like to meet civil members tomorrow
>>>> morning at 930 AM at the Park Hyatt Hotel, here in Baku.
>>>> 
>>>> I know this is pretty late to inform you about it but \i have personally
>>>> invited almost all civil society guys who are already at Baku for the
>>>> bestbits meeting. However, there may be others who may have reached Baku
>>>> and be interested to meet the minister, in which case please do consider
>>>> yourself invited, in case you can make it to Park Hyatt by 930 AM.
>>>> 
>>>> parminder
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>> 
>>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>> 
>>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
>>> P.O. Box 17862
>>> Suva
>>> Fiji
>>> 
>>> Twitter: @SalanietaT
>>> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
>>> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>> 
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>> 
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>> 
>> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
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>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
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From pranesh at cis-india.org  Mon Nov  5 22:53:38 2012
From: pranesh at cis-india.org (Pranesh Prakash)
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2012 07:53:38 +0400
Subject: [governance] URGENT- meeting with the Indian minister
In-Reply-To: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D59F292A2@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local>
References: <7ec29a619dcfb65e02aecea972251c9f.squirrel@www.itforchange.net> <CAJwbTiBFKCwx1QcmVkKCYPWJtVrTh8U8TRsxB2mOcu6PfOm-vg@mail.gmail.com>,<CAEP5zKTWKyc37YBr8H_7PXyfxioXr57O_hg3kMoqk4EQEZEoRw@mail.gmail.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D59F292A2@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local>
Message-ID: <509889C2.3060306@cis-india.org>

Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch [2012-11-05 23:22]:
> the most interesting aspect of this meeting with the Indian Minister
> for IT will be to see if there remains any endorsement for CIRP after
> today's meeting on enhanced cooperation, particularly any official
> endorsement from the Indian Government. When will trustworthy notes
> from that meeting be released? What representation of the official
> position of the government of India is authoritative? (Parminder,
> your complaint that governments are not well coordinated would be
> most pertinent here, if I understood/recall it well.)

From an article by Shalini Singh in The Hindu:

http://goo.gl/04rux

[snip]
In the run-up to the Budapest meet, a UPA task-force held closed-door
consultations involving the Ministry of External Affairs, Ministry of
Telecom and IT, industry bodies and others. Latha Reddy, the Deputy
National Security Adviser, coordinated this effort.

On the issue of India’s earlier UN-CIRP model, Mr. Pilot also confirmed,
“We are moving ahead with new proposals. While the existing system
certainly needs to be changed, India’s position will include
multi-stakeholder involvement and not inter-governmental bodies that may
have been proposed in the past.”

The Indian government’s changed stance on Internet governance, though
subtle, is expected to generate further attention at the upcoming
Internet Governance Forum in Baku, Azerbaijan next month, where
thousands of delegates representing governments, business, civil
society, academia and media from across the world will collect to
discuss the issue.
[/snip]

While I am sure there will be heated disputes on this mailing list over
whether this is a "changed stance", etc., I think the most interesting
bit is the quote by the then-Minister of State on Communications and IT.

Cheers,
Pranesh

-- 
Pranesh Prakash
Policy Director
Centre for Internet and Society
T: +91 80 40926283 | W: http://cis-india.org
PGP ID: 0x1D5C5F07 | Twitter: @pranesh_prakash

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From suresh at hserus.net  Mon Nov  5 23:01:12 2012
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 09:31:12 +0530
Subject: [governance] URGENT- meeting with the Indian minister
In-Reply-To: <509889C2.3060306@cis-india.org>
References: <7ec29a619dcfb65e02aecea972251c9f.squirrel@www.itforchange.net> <CAJwbTiBFKCwx1QcmVkKCYPWJtVrTh8U8TRsxB2mOcu6PfOm-vg@mail.gmail.com> <CAEP5zKTWKyc37YBr8H_7PXyfxioXr57O_hg3kMoqk4EQEZEoRw@mail.gmail.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D59F292A2@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> <509889C2.3060306@cis-india.org>
Message-ID: <F6EEAF47-7E4C-4C30-8761-C3AA2B9B4F14@hserus.net>

.. which leaves IT4Change's nose slightly out of joint, but well .. it is nice to hear them advocate multistakeholderism without, so far, any of the usual specious wording (power play dressed up as a north vs south divide) that often accompanies such declarations

--srs (iPad)

On 06-Nov-2012, at 9:23, Pranesh Prakash <pranesh at cis-india.org> wrote:

> While I am sure there will be heated disputes on this mailing list over
> whether this is a "changed stance", etc., I think the most interesting
> bit is the quote by the then-Minister of State on Communications and IT.

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From pranesh at cis-india.org  Mon Nov  5 23:28:11 2012
From: pranesh at cis-india.org (Pranesh Prakash)
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2012 08:28:11 +0400
Subject: [governance] Fwd: Re: UN Censorship
In-Reply-To: <50988669.90500@cis-india.org>
References: <50988669.90500@cis-india.org>
Message-ID: <509891DB.2000604@cis-india.org>


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: UN Censorship
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2012 07:39:21 +0400
From: Pranesh Prakash <pranesh at cis-india.org>
Organization: Centre for Internet and Society
To: bestbits at lists.igcaucus.org

Here's a draft statement.  Please feel free to edit it directly:
http://igcaucus.org:9001/p/un-censorship-statement

A few things we still need to figure out:
1. Who the officials were.
2. Whether the postcards were being handed out of if they were kept at a
stall, and in either case, where.
3. What rules, if any, govern the conduct of UN meetings and what may be
distributed at such meetings.  As far as I know there are different
rules of procedure for different UN organizations.  And as far as I
remember, we were never presented any written rules on this issue in Sharm.
4. What exactly we should be asking for and from whom?
5. Apart from a mere statement, what else should we do?  Arthit and Anja
suggested that we all hand out these postcards (or photocopies of them)
tomorrow.
6. Could we get governments and inter-governmental organizations (and
independent rapporteurs, etc.) to endorse a statement or otherwise
comment on this incident?
7. Whether these incidents are symptomatic of a larger problem with the
IGF being located within the United Nations, or if that feeling is
merely over-reaction?


====

Statement of Undersigned [Civil Society Organizations and Members / CS
and Industry and Governments and Inter-governmental Organizations] on
Restrictions of Freedom of Speech at the Internet Governance Forum

On the evening of Monday, November 5, 2012 at the Internet Governance
Forum (IGF) happening in Baku, attendees from an Indonesian civil
society organization (ICT Watch) were prevented from distributing
postcards that read "Government Censorship: Protecting You From
Reality"[1], and "What if... all the media runs the same story?"[2].
They were prevented from doing so by a person who identified himself as
a United Nations official.  [Name? Designation?]

They were told that these postcards would make [any / some / certain]
government[s] "unhappy", and that "written rules" required that any
materials distributed at an event organized by the United Nations event,
such as the IGF, require prior approval by the UN or the "IGF Committee".

Such restrictions on distribution of materials about censorship is
highly objectionable and is completely unacceptable.  This goes against
accepted international principles of human rights, including Article 19
of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 10 of the European
[Convention] on Human Rights.  The IGF, as a UN-convened forum, is
committed to promotion of all human rights, including the freedom of
opinion and expression.  Indeed, this principle is reaffirmed in
Paragraph 42 of the Tunis Agenda for the Information Society.

[We would like to note that this is not the first time that such a
restriction of freedom of expression has taken place at the IGF.  At the
IGF in Sharm el-Sheikh in 2009, UN officials objected to a poster that
referred to censorship in a UN Member State.  In the present case, the
material did not even refer to specific UN Member States[— indeed even
preventing attendees from peacefully distributing materials that name UN
Member States amounts to censorship of political views].]

This certainly proves the concerns about censorship expressed by various
speakers at the IGF, and that content of the postcards in question, were
indeed justified and relevant.

We urge [ ] to [ ].

-- 
Pranesh Prakash
Policy Director
Centre for Internet and Society
T: +91 80 40926283 | W: http://cis-india.org
PGP ID: 0x1D5C5F07 | Twitter: @pranesh_prakash



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From tapani.tarvainen at effi.org  Tue Nov  6 00:01:47 2012
From: tapani.tarvainen at effi.org (Tapani Tarvainen)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 09:01:47 +0400
Subject: [governance] Censorship of postcards at the IGF
In-Reply-To: <CABBOhxrGQWMdzeTxo-_kVcZMT4ByD83uEhscjV3_zkBcFHvFgw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJOH5-xoN0bQ0C0hHecJhJxdqrdOz5rQZCEE3txTk=gB-ddfYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <F02AE67F-61B0-464E-9132-8AE17B7D506A@ciroap.org>
 <CABBOhxrGQWMdzeTxo-_kVcZMT4ByD83uEhscjV3_zkBcFHvFgw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121106050147.GA7833@tarvainen.info>

On Nov 05 20:02, Fahd A. Batayneh (fahd.batayneh at gmail.com) wrote:

> Rumor has it that Indonesia is expected to host the 8th IGF meeting in
> Jakarta. Such banners seem weird for a country willing to host this annual
> event

How so? I would think the opposite: Indonesians protesting against
censorship is a good sign.

Now if they were protesting against Indonesian government or stopped
by them it would be different, but as long as Indonesian government
doesn't mind (or at least pretends not to), I think this is a positive
indication about freedom of expression in Indonesia and most
appropriate for next IGF host.

-- 
Tapani Tarvainen

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From parminder at itforchange.net  Tue Nov  6 00:20:15 2012
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder at itforchange.net)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 21:20:15 -0800
Subject: [governance] URGENT- meeting with the Indian minister
In-Reply-To:  <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D59F292A2@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local>
References: <7ec29a619dcfb65e02aecea972251c9f.squirrel@www.itforchange.net>
    <CAJwbTiBFKCwx1QcmVkKCYPWJtVrTh8U8TRsxB2mOcu6PfOm-vg@mail.gmail.com>,<CAEP5zKTWKyc37YBr8H_7PXyfxioXr57O_hg3kMoqk4EQEZEoRw@mail.gmail.com>
    <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D59F292A2@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local>
Message-ID: <ca34be3d8f0d6abb181eb4b09494750d.squirrel@www.itforchange.net>


Alejandro

I know the CIRP proposal well, and know which part speaks of CIR oversight
role and which parts are about other things. So, I cannot say that CIRP
had nothing to do with the oversight role. I said that is not its big
focus as is made out to be, especially by those who would not want to
discuss the larger public policy issues part (code word - OECD's CCICP).

I would characterize CIRP as 5/6th other things (larger Internet related
public policy issues) and just 1/6th about CIR oversight. This would also
be clear on reading the CIRP doc as well as joint IBSA statements on
enhanced cooperation that were made previous to making the CIRP proposal.
However, people want to read and focus on what they want to read and focus
on and not much be done about it.

As for this great 'surprise' about parminder having said "maybe the
oversight part should not be included" and requests for clarification/
ratification, following facts may be (re) illuminating...


1. On the panel at CSTD discussion on enhanced cooperation in May 2012, I
made an clear, explicit proposal that CIRP be modified and the oversight
function  be moved elsewhere (no doubt in urgent need of changeover from
US current over-lord-ship, however, it should be dealt by a different
mechanism) . The statement is here, and has been shared with this list on
a number of occasions. The proposal was specifically noted by the US
delegation from the floor, and this fact has also been mentioned here on
the list. Not only have I shared this proposal here but tried to initiate
discussions a number of times on a possible alternative mechanism to deal
with the oversight issue, but in any case to remove it from CIRP's role. I
have discussed my proposal in this regard with Indian officials on a few
occasions, with some sympathetic nods.

2. My statement in the above regard also came from a campaign that we did
just before the May meeting on enhanced cooperation, along with 4 other
organisations and supported by more that 65 organisations and many more
individuals (I know I need to keep mentioning this over and over again). A
joint statement was issued, which suggests separation between the needed
mechanism for the oversight issues, and other broader public policy
issues. If all those organisations and individuals who supported this
campaign were able to come to Baku and speak up, it will be a much bigger
meeting that yesterday's meeting on enhanced cooperation, and, as you may
suspect, we would have heard very different things. But these
organisations and people obviously do not have the support and resources
to come, perhaps because they do not say the 'right things'. A new kind of
civil society mediated 'manufactured consent' may be being created here. I
was surprised (though, well, not that surprised) about the number of 'we
have a kind of consensus in the room' kind of statements being made by
moderators and others at the meeting. (Will write more about yesterday's
meeting later but let me remain focussed on the main issue here.)

3. BTW, in any case, CIRP is  an Indian government's proposal and not IT
for Change's. At all earlier occasions when IT for Change has demanded a
CIRP like body we havent got explicit about the specific roles, which we
though need to be discussed and developed. We specifically say, lets first
start with something exactly like OECD's CICCP.  However, I do understand
that when India had to make a specific proposal it needed to do so with
much more specificity than what a civil society position paper can afford
to do. And in this regard, since 'oversight issue' indeed has been one
that developing countires have been united about the need to do something
about for many years now, India had to place the oversight role somewhere
in its proposal. Also to mention again, the functions that India did
propose for CIRP all came from 3 of the four models suggested by the WGIG,
which went through considerable multistakehoder discussion at that time.
However, as they said in the statement, they were eager to hear other
people's views on this, and so if anyone thinks oversight should not be
here, tell them where it should be (no, not with the US gov) rather than
ridicule everything a 'oh so impertinent' developing country may say.


 parminder


> Chaitanya,
>
> the most interesting aspect of this meeting with the Indian Minister for
> IT will be to see if there remains any endorsement for CIRP after today's
> meeting on enhanced cooperation, particularly any official endorsement
> from the Indian Government. When will trustworthy notes from that meeting
> be released? What representation of the official position of the
> government of India is authoritative? (Parminder, your complaint that
> governments are not well coordinated would be most pertinent here, if I
> understood/recall it well.)
>
> Parminder, could you ratify/clarify a statement you made at the end, just
> because the microphones were turned off? I heard you say "maybe the
> oversight part should not be included". This - for those not present - was
> after Parminder said that the CIRP proposal does not affect any existing
> Internet Governance mechanisms, and Bill Drake read text (which was also
> readable in the rolling transcript) proving that it does, and does more,
> like propose CIRP to perform arbitration and other functions.
>
> Yours,
>
> Alejandro Pisanty
>
>
> ! !! !!! !!!!
> NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO
>
>
>
> +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
>
> +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO
>
> SMS +525541444475
>      Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
> UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>
> Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
> Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,
> http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
>
> ________________________________
> Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
> [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Chaitanya Dhareshwar
> [chaitanyabd at gmail.com]
> Enviado el: domingo, 04 de noviembre de 2012 22:45
> Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro
> CC: parminder at itforchange.net
> Asunto: Re: [governance] URGENT- meeting with the Indian minister
>
> +1 Great stuff Parminder! I'm assuming there will be some sort of
> summary/minutes of the meeting so the rest of us have an idea of what the
> good minister's plans are for the future.
>
> -C
>
> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 1:17 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro
> <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com<mailto:salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> This is excellent Parminder and a great opportunity to engage in dialogue.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Sala
>
> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 8:31 AM,
> <parminder at itforchange.net<mailto:parminder at itforchange.net>> wrote:
>
>
> Dear All
>
> The Indian minister for IT will like to meet civil members tomorrow
> morning at 930 AM at the Park Hyatt Hotel, here in Baku.
>
> I know this is pretty late to inform you about it but \i have personally
> invited almost all civil society guys who are already at Baku for the
> bestbits meeting. However, there may be others who may have reached Baku
> and be interested to meet the minister, in which case please do consider
> yourself invited, in case you can make it to Park Hyatt by 930 AM.
>
> parminder
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org<mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>
>
> --
> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
> P.O. Box 17862
> Suva
> Fiji
>
> Twitter: @SalanietaT
> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org<mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
> To be removed from the list, visit:
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>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
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>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>



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From suresh at hserus.net  Tue Nov  6 00:28:31 2012
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 10:58:31 +0530
Subject: [governance] URGENT- meeting with the Indian minister
In-Reply-To: <ca34be3d8f0d6abb181eb4b09494750d.squirrel@www.itforchange.net>
References: <7ec29a619dcfb65e02aecea972251c9f.squirrel@www.itforchange.net> <CAJwbTiBFKCwx1QcmVkKCYPWJtVrTh8U8TRsxB2mOcu6PfOm-vg@mail.gmail.com> <CAEP5zKTWKyc37YBr8H_7PXyfxioXr57O_hg3kMoqk4EQEZEoRw@mail.gmail.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D59F292A2@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> <ca34be3d8f0d6abb181eb4b09494750d.squirrel@www.itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <2CB5CC5A-085A-417A-859B-E6756C48B6EB@hserus.net>

Why, parminder, are you confusing OECD's CICCP with the CIRP proposal?

There's no coordination role involved there to start with.  There is nothing going on there except production of best practices (white paper recommendations and ministerial briefings at conferences like APEC TEL), joint cybersecurity related policy studies with individual countries, metrics gathering etc.

I would hardly call that anything related to "governance" in the sort of overly grand scheme of things that your proposal and the CIRP (or are we talking of one and the same thing) both keep  harping on.

--srs (iPad)

On 06-Nov-2012, at 10:50, parminder at itforchange.net wrote:

> 
> Alejandro
> 
> I know the CIRP proposal well, and know which part speaks of CIR oversight
> role and which parts are about other things. So, I cannot say that CIRP
> had nothing to do with the oversight role. I said that is not its big
> focus as is made out to be, especially by those who would not want to
> discuss the larger public policy issues part (code word - OECD's CCICP).
> 
> I would characterize CIRP as 5/6th other things (larger Internet related
> public policy issues) and just 1/6th about CIR oversight. This would also
> be clear on reading the CIRP doc as well as joint IBSA statements on
> enhanced cooperation that were made previous to making the CIRP proposal.
> However, people want to read and focus on what they want to read and focus
> on and not much be done about it.
> 
> As for this great 'surprise' about parminder having said "maybe the
> oversight part should not be included" and requests for clarification/
> ratification, following facts may be (re) illuminating...
> 
> 
> 1. On the panel at CSTD discussion on enhanced cooperation in May 2012, I
> made an clear, explicit proposal that CIRP be modified and the oversight
> function  be moved elsewhere (no doubt in urgent need of changeover from
> US current over-lord-ship, however, it should be dealt by a different
> mechanism) . The statement is here, and has been shared with this list on
> a number of occasions. The proposal was specifically noted by the US
> delegation from the floor, and this fact has also been mentioned here on
> the list. Not only have I shared this proposal here but tried to initiate
> discussions a number of times on a possible alternative mechanism to deal
> with the oversight issue, but in any case to remove it from CIRP's role. I
> have discussed my proposal in this regard with Indian officials on a few
> occasions, with some sympathetic nods.
> 
> 2. My statement in the above regard also came from a campaign that we did
> just before the May meeting on enhanced cooperation, along with 4 other
> organisations and supported by more that 65 organisations and many more
> individuals (I know I need to keep mentioning this over and over again). A
> joint statement was issued, which suggests separation between the needed
> mechanism for the oversight issues, and other broader public policy
> issues. If all those organisations and individuals who supported this
> campaign were able to come to Baku and speak up, it will be a much bigger
> meeting that yesterday's meeting on enhanced cooperation, and, as you may
> suspect, we would have heard very different things. But these
> organisations and people obviously do not have the support and resources
> to come, perhaps because they do not say the 'right things'. A new kind of
> civil society mediated 'manufactured consent' may be being created here. I
> was surprised (though, well, not that surprised) about the number of 'we
> have a kind of consensus in the room' kind of statements being made by
> moderators and others at the meeting. (Will write more about yesterday's
> meeting later but let me remain focussed on the main issue here.)
> 
> 3. BTW, in any case, CIRP is  an Indian government's proposal and not IT
> for Change's. At all earlier occasions when IT for Change has demanded a
> CIRP like body we havent got explicit about the specific roles, which we
> though need to be discussed and developed. We specifically say, lets first
> start with something exactly like OECD's CICCP.  However, I do understand
> that when India had to make a specific proposal it needed to do so with
> much more specificity than what a civil society position paper can afford
> to do. And in this regard, since 'oversight issue' indeed has been one
> that developing countires have been united about the need to do something
> about for many years now, India had to place the oversight role somewhere
> in its proposal. Also to mention again, the functions that India did
> propose for CIRP all came from 3 of the four models suggested by the WGIG,
> which went through considerable multistakehoder discussion at that time.
> However, as they said in the statement, they were eager to hear other
> people's views on this, and so if anyone thinks oversight should not be
> here, tell them where it should be (no, not with the US gov) rather than
> ridicule everything a 'oh so impertinent' developing country may say.
> 
> 
> parminder
> 
> 
>> Chaitanya,
>> 
>> the most interesting aspect of this meeting with the Indian Minister for
>> IT will be to see if there remains any endorsement for CIRP after today's
>> meeting on enhanced cooperation, particularly any official endorsement
>> from the Indian Government. When will trustworthy notes from that meeting
>> be released? What representation of the official position of the
>> government of India is authoritative? (Parminder, your complaint that
>> governments are not well coordinated would be most pertinent here, if I
>> understood/recall it well.)
>> 
>> Parminder, could you ratify/clarify a statement you made at the end, just
>> because the microphones were turned off? I heard you say "maybe the
>> oversight part should not be included". This - for those not present - was
>> after Parminder said that the CIRP proposal does not affect any existing
>> Internet Governance mechanisms, and Bill Drake read text (which was also
>> readable in the rolling transcript) proving that it does, and does more,
>> like propose CIRP to perform arbitration and other functions.
>> 
>> Yours,
>> 
>> Alejandro Pisanty
>> 
>> 
>> ! !! !!! !!!!
>> NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
>> 
>> +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO
>> 
>> SMS +525541444475
>>     Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
>> UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>> 
>> Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
>> Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,
>> http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
>> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
>> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
>> 
>> ________________________________
>> Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
>> [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Chaitanya Dhareshwar
>> [chaitanyabd at gmail.com]
>> Enviado el: domingo, 04 de noviembre de 2012 22:45
>> Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro
>> CC: parminder at itforchange.net
>> Asunto: Re: [governance] URGENT- meeting with the Indian minister
>> 
>> +1 Great stuff Parminder! I'm assuming there will be some sort of
>> summary/minutes of the meeting so the rest of us have an idea of what the
>> good minister's plans are for the future.
>> 
>> -C
>> 
>> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 1:17 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro
>> <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com<mailto:salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com>>
>> wrote:
>> Dear All,
>> 
>> This is excellent Parminder and a great opportunity to engage in dialogue.
>> 
>> Kind Regards,
>> Sala
>> 
>> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 8:31 AM,
>> <parminder at itforchange.net<mailto:parminder at itforchange.net>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Dear All
>> 
>> The Indian minister for IT will like to meet civil members tomorrow
>> morning at 930 AM at the Park Hyatt Hotel, here in Baku.
>> 
>> I know this is pretty late to inform you about it but \i have personally
>> invited almost all civil society guys who are already at Baku for the
>> bestbits meeting. However, there may be others who may have reached Baku
>> and be interested to meet the minister, in which case please do consider
>> yourself invited, in case you can make it to Park Hyatt by 930 AM.
>> 
>> parminder
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org<mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> 
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> 
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
>> P.O. Box 17862
>> Suva
>> Fiji
>> 
>> Twitter: @SalanietaT
>> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
>> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
>> 
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From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 00:47:02 2012
From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 07:47:02 +0200
Subject: [governance] Censorship of postcards at the IGF
In-Reply-To: <20121106050147.GA7833@tarvainen.info>
References: <CAJOH5-xoN0bQ0C0hHecJhJxdqrdOz5rQZCEE3txTk=gB-ddfYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <F02AE67F-61B0-464E-9132-8AE17B7D506A@ciroap.org> <CABBOhxrGQWMdzeTxo-_kVcZMT4ByD83uEhscjV3_zkBcFHvFgw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20121106050147.GA7833@tarvainen.info>
Message-ID: <CABBOhxoc=Tm3Zh_C7wtO9EUGJGYGXijYOsHwNxGaCpSbmZJkQg@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you Tapanai.

I agree.

It seems that I misinterpreted and misunderstood the banner.

Fahd

On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 7:01 AM, Tapani Tarvainen
<tapani.tarvainen at effi.org>wrote:

> On Nov 05 20:02, Fahd A. Batayneh (fahd.batayneh at gmail.com) wrote:
>
> > Rumor has it that Indonesia is expected to host the 8th IGF meeting in
> > Jakarta. Such banners seem weird for a country willing to host this
> annual
> > event
>
> How so? I would think the opposite: Indonesians protesting against
> censorship is a good sign.
>
> Now if they were protesting against Indonesian government or stopped
> by them it would be different, but as long as Indonesian government
> doesn't mind (or at least pretends not to), I think this is a positive
> indication about freedom of expression in Indonesia and most
> appropriate for next IGF host.
>
> --
> Tapani Tarvainen
>
>
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From gurstein at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 01:08:54 2012
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 10:08:54 +0400
Subject: [governance] FW: TODAY 2.30-4.00 Workshop:  National IG Mechanisms
 - Looking at Some Key Design Issues
In-Reply-To: <008901cdbbe0$003eda80$00bc8f80$@gmail.com>
References: <008901cdbbe0$003eda80$00bc8f80$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001cdbbe5$35694a10$a03bde30$@gmail.com>

We just learned of the change in date from Friday at 2.30-4.00 TODAY at
2.30-4.00 (Rm. 10) ... Sorry for any confusion.

The broad objective of the Workshop is to explore alternative strategies for
managing in the public interest Internet resources at the national level
based on the practical experience of several countries in this area--notably
Brazil, New Zealand, India, and Kenya.

(We would invite others of those with an interest and experience to
present/discuss this from their own national experience as well.)

Mike


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From jeremy at ciroap.org  Tue Nov  6 01:39:46 2012
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 10:39:46 +0400
Subject: [governance] Re: Censorship of postcards at the IGF
References: <2BA01659-8281-47ED-812A-725E656307DF@unog.ch>
Message-ID: <4647C94D-5657-42A9-9F98-EA82DCB0F0D5@ciroap.org>

So here is the official line.  Questions that this opens up:

1. If the issue was with "random placement" of the postcards, it should be fine to distribute the postcards from any booth that is willing to host them within the IGF Village.  So, can we test that hypothesis?  Donny, can you try that and see what happens?

2. One of the postcards had a specific reference to a country?  There is none that I could see, but maybe it is on the reverse side?

3. Like last time, the official rationalisation seems to differ from what the individual concerned was told at the time.  This in itself is a problem - they are making up the rules as they go along.

I have edited the document on the pad at http://igcaucus.org:9001/p/un-censorship-statement.  I think we have enough information now to finalise the statement soon and start gathering support and disseminating it.

Do we have any press contacts on this list who could attend the IGF official press conference and raise this matter?

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Chengetai Masango <CMASANGO at unog.ch>
> Subject: Re: Censorship of postcards at the IGF
> Date: 6 November 2012 9:56:06 AM GMT+04:00
> To: jeremy at ciroap.org
> 
> Hi Jeremy,
> 
> The main thing about the postcards is that we discourage the random placement of literature across the IGF venue. We have designated places where people or organisations can deposit their materials for distribution or pick up by interested individuals.
> 
> Of the two post cards that I saw, there was no problem with one but the other had a specific reference to a country, as you know there is a standard  UN policy of not  singling out specific entities or people but rather to address the issue. (We hold that it is unfair to single out one entity if the issue is not endemic to that particular entity). A perfunctory check is done to make sure that this is not the case. This is done in an effort to enable free, open and respectful discussion, (which in my view is essential in the IGF).
> 
> One of the UN staff had a polite talk with the gentleman distributing the postcards and he seemed to understand.
> 
> Best regards 
> 
> Chengetai 

-- 
Dr Jeremy Malcolm
Senior Policy Officer
Consumers International | the global campaigning voice for consumers
Office for Asia-Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Your rights, our mission – download CI's Strategy 2015: http://consint.info/RightsMission

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From gideonrop at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 01:40:31 2012
From: gideonrop at gmail.com (Gideon)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 09:40:31 +0300
Subject: [governance] Good Bye .DOTAFRICA: ICANN Approves the Change Request
 Made by DotConnectAfrica Trust for Its .Africa
Message-ID: <CAP2ohHHBE5EqxUvxnKGp1XN0k7tVMJdejefEG5sQigmbTcNRyw@mail.gmail.com>

Good Bye .DOTAFRICA:  ICANN Approves the Change Request Made by
DotConnectAfrica Trust for Its .Africa

http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs123/1102516344150/archive/1111325860695.html



Gideon Rop
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From jeremy at ciroap.org  Tue Nov  6 02:29:48 2012
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 11:29:48 +0400
Subject: [governance] Re: Censorship of postcards at the IGF
In-Reply-To: <CAJOH5-xRbctd+0qM7MUJajAvBpr6Q6s6vtWUL5MgJZhS2EUjhQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2BA01659-8281-47ED-812A-725E656307DF@unog.ch> <4647C94D-5657-42A9-9F98-EA82DCB0F0D5@ciroap.org> <CAJOH5-xRbctd+0qM7MUJajAvBpr6Q6s6vtWUL5MgJZhS2EUjhQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6A048AB8-D25D-4575-96F1-ED57B751B076@ciroap.org>

On 06/11/2012, at 11:17 AM, "Donny B.U." <dbu at donnybu.com> wrote:

> i dont want to argue furthermore with the UN officer, also because when he asked me not to distribute the postcards, around me are people from indonesian embassy including the ambasador and from the ict ministry. i have to respect them, as the formal delegation that will fight for the next igf. 

But you are OK that we raise it as a broader issue?  In the latest draft of the statement, I am concluding:

"We urge the IGF Secretariat to clarify the position relating to the distribution of written materials at the IGF, and not to inhibit their distribution except in accordance with a clear set of written rules that has been promulgated to all delegates in advance.  Such rules should not blindly adhere to the UN protocols that may subsist in intergovernmental fora, given that the IGF is not a UN body but operates on a unique multi-stakeholder basis that encourages free and open discussion."

-- 
Dr Jeremy Malcolm
Senior Policy Officer
Consumers International | the global campaigning voice for consumers
Office for Asia-Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

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From suresh at hserus.net  Tue Nov  6 02:33:32 2012
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 13:03:32 +0530
Subject: [governance] Good Bye .DOTAFRICA: ICANN Approves the Change
 Request Made by DotConnectAfrica Trust for Its .Africa
In-Reply-To: <CAP2ohHHBE5EqxUvxnKGp1XN0k7tVMJdejefEG5sQigmbTcNRyw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP2ohHHBE5EqxUvxnKGp1XN0k7tVMJdejefEG5sQigmbTcNRyw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CC2AF9FB-31A3-4D2B-8477-5ABB111558AA@hserus.net>

so,,,?  does this suddenly award you the .africa TLD or something?

--srs (iPad)

On 06-Nov-2012, at 12:10, Gideon <gideonrop at gmail.com> wrote:

> 
> Good Bye .DOTAFRICA:  ICANN Approves the Change Request Made by DotConnectAfrica Trust for Its .Africa
> 
> http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs123/1102516344150/archive/1111325860695.html
> 
>  
> 
> Gideon Rop
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
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From apisan at unam.mx  Tue Nov  6 03:00:01 2012
From: apisan at unam.mx (Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 08:00:01 +0000
Subject: [governance] Re: Censorship of postcards at the IGF
In-Reply-To: <4647C94D-5657-42A9-9F98-EA82DCB0F0D5@ciroap.org>
References: <2BA01659-8281-47ED-812A-725E656307DF@unog.ch>,<4647C94D-5657-42A9-9F98-EA82DCB0F0D5@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D59F294CF@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local>

Hi,

daring to intervene here... to the best of my knowledge the core troublesome reference is in the reverse of one of the postcards that calls a country a dangerous place.

We have known for long - even in the MAG which is a closed and more relaxed forum - that specific references to countries and certain other entities.

So you may refer to "governments" in general - within some pretty broad bounds - but not one in particular. And there's hardly any way the rules allow to single out a country.

The subtleties of these rules are often more stifling than an invitation to open free speech but they do allow for lots of creative ways to deliver messages - with broader impact.

Yours,

Alejandro Pisanty


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________________________________
Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de Jeremy Malcolm [jeremy at ciroap.org]
Enviado el: martes, 06 de noviembre de 2012 00:39
Hasta: <bestbits at lists.igcaucus.org> Bits; governance at lists.igcaucus.org
Asunto: [governance] Re: Censorship of postcards at the IGF

So here is the official line.  Questions that this opens up:

1. If the issue was with "random placement" of the postcards, it should be fine to distribute the postcards from any booth that is willing to host them within the IGF Village.  So, can we test that hypothesis?  Donny, can you try that and see what happens?

2. One of the postcards had a specific reference to a country?  There is none that I could see, but maybe it is on the reverse side?

3. Like last time, the official rationalisation seems to differ from what the individual concerned was told at the time.  This in itself is a problem - they are making up the rules as they go along.

I have edited the document on the pad at http://igcaucus.org:9001/p/un-censorship-statement.  I think we have enough information now to finalise the statement soon and start gathering support and disseminating it.

Do we have any press contacts on this list who could attend the IGF official press conference and raise this matter?

Begin forwarded message:

From: Chengetai Masango <CMASANGO at unog.ch<mailto:CMASANGO at unog.ch>>
Subject: Re: Censorship of postcards at the IGF
Date: 6 November 2012 9:56:06 AM GMT+04:00
To: jeremy at ciroap.org<mailto:jeremy at ciroap.org>

Hi Jeremy,

The main thing about the postcards is that we discourage the random placement of literature across the IGF venue. We have designated places where people or organisations can deposit their materials for distribution or pick up by interested individuals.

Of the two post cards that I saw, there was no problem with one but the other had a specific reference to a country, as you know there is a standard  UN policy of not  singling out specific entities or people but rather to address the issue. (We hold that it is unfair to single out one entity if the issue is not endemic to that particular entity). A perfunctory check is done to make sure that this is not the case. This is done in an effort to enable free, open and respectful discussion, (which in my view is essential in the IGF).

One of the UN staff had a polite talk with the gentleman distributing the postcards and he seemed to understand.

Best regards

Chengetai

--

Dr Jeremy Malcolm
Senior Policy Officer
Consumers International | the global campaigning voice for consumers
Office for Asia-Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Your rights, our mission – download CI's Strategy 2015: http://consint.info/RightsMission

@Consumers_Int | www.consumersinternational.org<http://www.consumersinternational.org/> | www.facebook.com/consumersinternational<http://www.facebook.com/consumersinternational>

Read our email confidentiality notice<http://www.consumersinternational.org/email-confidentiality>. Don't print this email unless necessary.

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From bortzmeyer at internatif.org  Tue Nov  6 03:00:53 2012
From: bortzmeyer at internatif.org (Stephane Bortzmeyer)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 09:00:53 +0100
Subject: [governance] Re: Good Bye .DOTAFRICA: ICANN Approves the Change
 Request  Made by DotConnectAfrica Trust for Its .Africa
In-Reply-To: <CAP2ohHHBE5EqxUvxnKGp1XN0k7tVMJdejefEG5sQigmbTcNRyw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP2ohHHBE5EqxUvxnKGp1XN0k7tVMJdejefEG5sQigmbTcNRyw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121106080052.GA26811@nic.fr>

On Tue, Nov 06, 2012 at 09:40:31AM +0300,
 Gideon <gideonrop at gmail.com> wrote 
 a message of 62 lines which said:

> Good Bye .DOTAFRICA:  ICANN Approves the Change Request Made by
> DotConnectAfrica Trust for Its .Africa

So, incompetence and stupidity are rewarded? Morons can type
"dotafrica" instead of "africa" in the form and ICANN allows them to
fix their stupid error? What a shame.


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From william.drake at uzh.ch  Tue Nov  6 03:56:58 2012
From: william.drake at uzh.ch (William Drake)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 12:56:58 +0400
Subject: [governance] Meeting with US gov
In-Reply-To: <91CE1491-95FB-4271-BE12-9406B9EBEAFA@uzh.ch>
References: <2FFF6C8B-AB51-44C3-9F4A-59B48F743D4B@apc.org> <50536371.6020100@apc.org> <8CF60B72476B741-128C-62EFC@webmail-m155.sysops.aol.com> <50538B18.8070204@apc.org> <91CE1491-95FB-4271-BE12-9406B9EBEAFA@uzh.ch>
Message-ID: <131861BB-7987-44D5-8A7B-4992BA71C5CC@uzh.ch>

Hello

I received a couple dozen replies expressing interest in this meeting, which the room is big enough to accommodate.  So a general announcement in reply: please come to room G. at 18:10.  I'm not sure how long we will have.  The Gala Reception begins at 19:00 at the Buta Palace which appears to be near the expo center but I assume they will still want to bus us.  I've written to the secretariat and host asking how late the buses will be running between the two spots.  In the worst case scenario, there are a lot of taxis around and the ride should be short and cheap, especially if people are sharing the ride.

I imagine the main focus of discussion will be the WCIT, but if CS folks have other issues they want to bring up, fine.

Best

Bill


On Nov 5, 2012, at 3:35 PM, William Drake wrote:

> Hello
> 
> I'm organizing a meeting between a few CS people from the US WCIT del etc with Larry Strickling (Asst. Secretary of Commerce), Fiona Alexander (head of international at NTIA), Terry Kramer (US Ambassaor to WCIT), and Manu Bhardwaj (Dept. of State).  This will be 18:00 tomorrow, Tuesday at the IGF site.  It looks like the room they've given us is big enough to accommodate more CS people, so if anyone would like to join, please contact me off list.
> 
> Best
> 
> Bill
> 
> *****************************************************
> William J. Drake
> International Fellow
> Media Change & Innovation Division, IPMZ
> University of Zurich, Switzerland
> william.drake at uzh.ch
> www.mediachange.ch/people/william-j-drake
> www.williamdrake.org
> *****************************************************
> ____________________________________________________________
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From william.drake at uzh.ch  Tue Nov  6 07:58:31 2012
From: william.drake at uzh.ch (William Drake)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 16:58:31 +0400
Subject: [governance] Meeting with US gov
In-Reply-To: <131861BB-7987-44D5-8A7B-4992BA71C5CC@uzh.ch>
References: <2FFF6C8B-AB51-44C3-9F4A-59B48F743D4B@apc.org> <50536371.6020100@apc.org> <8CF60B72476B741-128C-62EFC@webmail-m155.sysops.aol.com> <50538B18.8070204@apc.org> <91CE1491-95FB-4271-BE12-9406B9EBEAFA@uzh.ch> <131861BB-7987-44D5-8A7B-4992BA71C5CC@uzh.ch>
Message-ID: <AF0D5423-996A-4D11-AE60-870E8E1431DC@uzh.ch>

Workshops running half hour late, meeting will be @ 18:20

On Nov 6, 2012, at 12:56, William Drake <william.drake at uzh.ch> wrote:

> Hello
> 
> I received a couple dozen replies expressing interest in this meeting, which the room is big enough to accommodate.  So a general announcement in reply: please come to room G. at 18:10.  I'm not sure how long we will have.  The Gala Reception begins at 19:00 at the Buta Palace which appears to be near the expo center but I assume they will still want to bus us.  I've written to the secretariat and host asking how late the buses will be running between the two spots.  In the worst case scenario, there are a lot of taxis around and the ride should be short and cheap, especially if people are sharing the ride.
> 
> I imagine the main focus of discussion will be the WCIT, but if CS folks have other issues they want to bring up, fine.
> 
> Best
> 
> Bill
> 
> 
> On Nov 5, 2012, at 3:35 PM, William Drake wrote:
> 
>> Hello
>> 
>> I'm organizing a meeting between a few CS people from the US WCIT del etc with Larry Strickling (Asst. Secretary of Commerce), Fiona Alexander (head of international at NTIA), Terry Kramer (US Ambassaor to WCIT), and Manu Bhardwaj (Dept. of State).  This will be 18:00 tomorrow, Tuesday at the IGF site.  It looks like the room they've given us is big enough to accommodate more CS people, so if anyone would like to join, please contact me off list.
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
>> *****************************************************
>> William J. Drake
>> International Fellow
>> Media Change & Innovation Division, IPMZ
>> University of Zurich, Switzerland
>> william.drake at uzh.ch
>> www.mediachange.ch/people/william-j-drake
>> www.williamdrake.org
>> *****************************************************
>> ____________________________________________________________
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From wnew at ip-watch.ch  Tue Nov  6 08:54:49 2012
From: wnew at ip-watch.ch (William New)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 14:54:49 +0100
Subject: [governance] Good Bye .DOTAFRICA: ICANN Approves the Change
 Request Made by DotConnectAfrica Trust for Its .Africa
In-Reply-To: <CC2AF9FB-31A3-4D2B-8477-5ABB111558AA@hserus.net>
References: <CAP2ohHHBE5EqxUvxnKGp1XN0k7tVMJdejefEG5sQigmbTcNRyw@mail.gmail.com> <CC2AF9FB-31A3-4D2B-8477-5ABB111558AA@hserus.net>
Message-ID: <016b01cdbc26$4a418740$dec495c0$@ip-watch.ch>

 

http://www.ip-watch.org/2012/11/03/top-level-domain-africa-becomes-object-of-bitter-fight/

 

 

From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Suresh Ramasubramanian
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 8:34 AM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Gideon
Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
Subject: Re: [governance] Good Bye .DOTAFRICA: ICANN Approves the Change Request Made by DotConnectAfrica Trust for Its .Africa

 

so,,,?  does this suddenly award you the .africa TLD or something?

--srs (iPad)


On 06-Nov-2012, at 12:10, Gideon <gideonrop at gmail.com> wrote:

 

Good Bye .DOTAFRICA:  ICANN Approves the Change Request Made by DotConnectAfrica Trust for Its .Africa

http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs123/1102516344150/archive/1111325860695.html

 

Gideon Rop

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From dogwallah at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 10:30:34 2012
From: dogwallah at gmail.com (McTim)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 10:30:34 -0500
Subject: [governance] FW: TODAY 2.30-4.00 Workshop: National IG
 Mechanisms - Looking at Some Key Design Issues
In-Reply-To: <000001cdbbe5$35694a10$a03bde30$@gmail.com>
References: <008901cdbbe0$003eda80$00bc8f80$@gmail.com> <000001cdbbe5$35694a10$a03bde30$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACAaNxjNpRQbU=-4q_Dtpb7GFGLTk13whGxjdhE6w28n0BLiCA@mail.gmail.com>

ISOC comissiooned a study on this, just came out at:

 www.internetsociety.org/assessing_national_IG

On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 1:08 AM, michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:
> We just learned of the change in date from Friday at 2.30-4.00 TODAY at
> 2.30-4.00 (Rm. 10) ... Sorry for any confusion.
>
> The broad objective of the Workshop is to explore alternative strategies for
> managing in the public interest Internet resources at the national level
> based on the practical experience of several countries in this area--notably
> Brazil, New Zealand, India, and Kenya.
>
> (We would invite others of those with an interest and experience to
> present/discuss this from their own national experience as well.)
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
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>



-- 
Cheers,

McTim
"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A
route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel

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From suresh at hserus.net  Tue Nov  6 10:43:13 2012
From: suresh at hserus.net (=?utf-8?B?U3VyZXNoIFJhbWFzdWJyYW1hbmlhbg==?=)
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2012 21:13:13 +0530
Subject: [governance] Good Bye .DOTAFRICA: ICANN Approves the Change
 Request Made by DotConnectAfrica Trust for Its .Africa
Message-ID: <E1TVlJ2-0004V3-5L@frodo.hserus.net>

Very well put. Thanks for sharing.

--srs (htc one x)


----- Reply message -----
From: "William New" <wnew at ip-watch.ch>
To: <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>, "'Suresh Ramasubramanian'" <suresh at hserus.net>, "'Gideon'" <gideonrop at gmail.com>
Subject: [governance] Good Bye .DOTAFRICA: ICANN Approves the Change Request Made by DotConnectAfrica Trust for Its .Africa
Date: Tue, Nov 6, 2012 7:24 PM


 

http://www.ip-watch.org/2012/11/03/top-level-domain-africa-becomes-object-of-bitter-fight/

 

 

From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Suresh Ramasubramanian
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 8:34 AM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Gideon
Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
Subject: Re: [governance] Good Bye .DOTAFRICA: ICANN Approves the Change Request Made by DotConnectAfrica Trust for Its .Africa

 

so,,,?  does this suddenly award you the .africa TLD or something?

--srs (iPad)


On 06-Nov-2012, at 12:10, Gideon <gideonrop at gmail.com> wrote:

 

Good Bye .DOTAFRICA:  ICANN Approves the Change Request Made by DotConnectAfrica Trust for Its .Africa

http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs123/1102516344150/archive/1111325860695.html

 

Gideon Rop

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From bavouc at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 10:52:05 2012
From: bavouc at gmail.com (Martial Bavou[Private Business Account])
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 16:52:05 +0100
Subject: [governance] IGF2012, Remote Connection
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAANnlFloumCxMuwwBwSZjX53CgAAAEAAAAHf5BZiUjixMlLGpIsdOWgQBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>

Hi,

 

It is quite not easy to get connected remotely, sound like there is something wrong technically, hope this will be sorted out before tomorrow. Possible to have some pictures from those who are on site?

 

Thanks 

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From sonigituekpe at crossriverstate.gov.ng  Tue Nov  6 11:01:30 2012
From: sonigituekpe at crossriverstate.gov.ng (Sonigitu Ekpe)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 17:01:30 +0100
Subject: [governance] FW: TODAY 2.30-4.00 Workshop: National IG
 Mechanisms - Looking at Some Key Design Issues
In-Reply-To: <000001cdbbe5$35694a10$a03bde30$@gmail.com>
References: <008901cdbbe0$003eda80$00bc8f80$@gmail.com>
	<000001cdbbe5$35694a10$a03bde30$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALLeeast--ZeM8gXHMgvQimbE-RzK-eX8aAQrby3ZOvdZHUNnQ@mail.gmail.com>

Great uncle Michael.

+1 for the need to share national experience.

I have a strong support for enhanced cooperation to move the
multi-stakeholders dimension of  Internet for all.

Sea
On Nov 6, 2012 7:10 AM, "michael gurstein" <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:

> We just learned of the change in date from Friday at 2.30-4.00 TODAY at
> 2.30-4.00 (Rm. 10) ... Sorry for any confusion.
>
> The broad objective of the Workshop is to explore alternative strategies
> for
> managing in the public interest Internet resources at the national level
> based on the practical experience of several countries in this
> area--notably
> Brazil, New Zealand, India, and Kenya.
>
> (We would invite others of those with an interest and experience to
> present/discuss this from their own national experience as well.)
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
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>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
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From dogwallah at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 11:22:06 2012
From: dogwallah at gmail.com (McTim)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 11:22:06 -0500
Subject: [governance] FW: TODAY 2.30-4.00 Workshop: National IG
 Mechanisms - Looking at Some Key Design Issues
In-Reply-To: <CALLeeast--ZeM8gXHMgvQimbE-RzK-eX8aAQrby3ZOvdZHUNnQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <008901cdbbe0$003eda80$00bc8f80$@gmail.com> <000001cdbbe5$35694a10$a03bde30$@gmail.com>
 <CALLeeast--ZeM8gXHMgvQimbE-RzK-eX8aAQrby3ZOvdZHUNnQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACAaNxg+yDD6ftx40ygrmQOz70-_O6LGZ9GecKPCiCzUUZCoyw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Sonigitu Ekpe
<sonigituekpe at crossriverstate.gov.ng> wrote:
> Great uncle Michael.
>
> +1 for the need to share national experience.
>
> I have a strong support for enhanced cooperation to move the
> multi-stakeholders dimension of  Internet for all.


Isn't "enhanced cooperation" a code phrase (for many folks anyway) for
more governmental involvement and less CS influence in IG?



-- 
Cheers,

McTim
"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A
route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel

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From antoinekantiza at hotmail.com  Tue Nov  6 11:31:14 2012
From: antoinekantiza at hotmail.com (ANTOINE KANTIZA)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 16:31:14 +0000
Subject: [governance] FW: TODAY 2.30-4.00 Workshop: National IG
 Mechanisms - Looking at Some Key Design Issues
In-Reply-To:  <CALLeeast--ZeM8gXHMgvQimbE-RzK-eX8aAQrby3ZOvdZHUNnQ@mail.gmail.com>
References:  <008901cdbbe0$003eda80$00bc8f80$@gmail.com>,<000001cdbbe5$35694a10$a03bde30$@gmail.com>,<CALLeeast--ZeM8gXHMgvQimbE-RzK-eX8aAQrby3ZOvdZHUNnQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DUB114-W137A6B24037EE8320699192DB6B0@phx.gbl>




Dear Michael Gurstein,
 
Warm greeting from Bujumbura,
 
I am ready to share my experience related to the management of public interest resources in Burundi during the forthcoming workshop.
.
It is worth mentioning that I have an interest in the Internet subject as I am Expert in Internet Governance as well as in Intellectual Property Rights focused  on the online content.
 
Best regards,
 

Prof Antoine KANTIZA, Master UTICEF,-
Webmaster à la Radio-Télévision Nationale du Burundi
http://www.burundi-quotidien.net  &  http://www.rtnb.bi/
Représentant légal de l'ASBL PLEAD " PROMOTION DE L'EDUCATION  A DISTANCE"     
http://promotioneducationdistance.blogspot.com
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/antoine-kantiza/25/603/446
 




Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 17:01:30 +0100
From: sonigituekpe at crossriverstate.gov.ng
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; gurstein at gmail.com
Subject: Re: [governance] FW: TODAY 2.30-4.00 Workshop: National IG Mechanisms - Looking at Some Key Design Issues


Great uncle Michael.
+1 for the need to share national experience.
I have a strong support for enhanced cooperation to move the multi-stakeholders dimension of  Internet for all. 
Sea

On Nov 6, 2012 7:10 AM, "michael gurstein" <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:

We just learned of the change in date from Friday at 2.30-4.00 TODAY at
2.30-4.00 (Rm. 10) ... Sorry for any confusion.

The broad objective of the Workshop is to explore alternative strategies for
managing in the public interest Internet resources at the national level
based on the practical experience of several countries in this area--notably
Brazil, New Zealand, India, and Kenya.

(We would invite others of those with an interest and experience to
present/discuss this from their own national experience as well.)

Mike



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From m.ermert at gmx.de  Tue Nov  6 11:37:45 2012
From: m.ermert at gmx.de (Monika Ermert)
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2012 17:37:45 +0100
Subject: [governance] Re: Censorship of postcards at the IGF
In-Reply-To: <4647C94D-5657-42A9-9F98-EA82DCB0F0D5@ciroap.org>
References: <2BA01659-8281-47ED-812A-725E656307DF@unog.ch> <4647C94D-5657-42A9-9F98-EA82DCB0F0D5@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <50993CD9.9070608@gmx.de>

Hi,

i will  bring it up at the press conference possibly together with 
another case i learned of today from some local people that obviously 
were prevented from distributing material. I got some rough information 
from a Swedish TV team that is about doing a documentary and tried to 
help. Still trying to get details and a contact.

Best,

Monika

Am 06.11.2012 07:39, schrieb Jeremy Malcolm:
> So here is the official line.  Questions that this opens up:
>
> 1. If the issue was with "random placement" of the postcards, it 
> should be fine to distribute the postcards from any booth that is 
> willing to host them within the IGF Village.  So, can we test that 
> hypothesis?  Donny, can you try that and see what happens?
>
> 2. One of the postcards had a specific reference to a country?  There 
> is none that I could see, but maybe it is on the reverse side?
>
> 3. Like last time, the official rationalisation seems to differ from 
> what the individual concerned was told at the time.  This in itself is 
> a problem - they are making up the rules as they go along.
>
> I have edited the document on the pad at 
> http://igcaucus.org:9001/p/un-censorship-statement.  I think we have 
> enough information now to finalise the statement soon and start 
> gathering support and disseminating it.
>
> Do we have any press contacts on this list who could attend the IGF 
> official press conference and raise this matter?
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>> *From: *Chengetai Masango <CMASANGO at unog.ch <mailto:CMASANGO at unog.ch>>
>> *Subject: **Re: Censorship of postcards at the IGF*
>> *Date: *6 November 2012 9:56:06 AM GMT+04:00
>> *To: *jeremy at ciroap.org <mailto:jeremy at ciroap.org>
>>
>> Hi Jeremy,
>>
>> The main thing about the postcards is that we discourage the random 
>> placement of literature across the IGF venue. We have designated 
>> places where people or organisations can deposit their materials for 
>> distribution or pick up by interested individuals.
>>
>> Of the two post cards that I saw, there was no problem with one but 
>> the other had a specific reference to a country, as you know there is 
>> a standard  UN policy of not  singling out specific entities or 
>> people but rather to address the issue. (We hold that it is unfair to 
>> single out one entity if the issue is not endemic to that particular 
>> entity). A perfunctory check is done to make sure that this is not 
>> the case. This is done in an effort to enable free, open and 
>> respectful discussion, (which in my view is essential in the IGF).
>>
>> One of the UN staff had a polite talk with the gentleman distributing 
>> the postcards and he seemed to understand.
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>> Chengetai
>
> -- 
>
> *Dr Jeremy Malcolm
> Senior Policy Officer
> Consumers International | the global campaigning voice for consumers*
> Office for Asia-Pacific and the Middle East
> Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, 
> Malaysia
> Tel: +60 3 7726 1599
>
> *Your rights, our mission – download CI's Strategy 2015:* 
> http://consint.info/RightsMission
>
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From ca at cafonso.ca  Tue Nov  6 12:27:19 2012
From: ca at cafonso.ca (Carlos A. Afonso)
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2012 21:27:19 +0400
Subject: [governance] FW: TODAY 2.30-4.00 Workshop: National IG
 Mechanisms - Looking at Some Key Design Issues
Message-ID: <v6474y2iy8xuo9ale72cdvl8.1352222781433@email.android.com>

Yes, David was at the workshop and presented a short sumary. Thx, McTim.

--c.a.




Carlos A. AfonsoMcTim <dogwallah at gmail.com> escreveu:ISOC comissiooned a study on this, just came out at:

www.internetsociety.org/assessing_national_IG

On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 1:08 AM, michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:
> We just learned of the change in date from Friday at 2.30-4.00 TODAY at
> 2.30-4.00 (Rm. 10) ... Sorry for any confusion.
>
> The broad objective of the Workshop is to explore alternative strategies for
> managing in the public interest Internet resources at the national level
> based on the practical experience of several countries in this area--notably
> Brazil, New Zealand, India, and Kenya.
>
> (We would invite others of those with an interest and experience to
> present/discuss this from their own national experience as well.)
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
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>



-- 
Cheers,

McTim
"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A
route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel

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From nb at bollow.ch  Tue Nov  6 13:34:21 2012
From: nb at bollow.ch (Norbert Bollow)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 19:34:21 +0100
Subject: [governance] IGF2012, Remote Connection
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAANnlFloumCxMuwwBwSZjX53CgAAAEAAAAHf5BZiUjixMlLGpIsdOWgQBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAANnlFloumCxMuwwBwSZjX53CgAAAEAAAAHf5BZiUjixMlLGpIsdOWgQBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALrvCLBFn9nYJrRqA193AThPN3xc6CH9SK2D7HTjvARp_pwncg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,

  as I'm organizing a workshop tomorrow Wednesday, I'd really very
much like to know to what extent remote participation was possible
today. I mean, what was working technically? Has it been possible for
remote people to follow what is going on? Are they able to communicate
interventions by voice? Is there at least a wire-based Internet
connection for the Remote Moderator so that remote people can comment
by irc or twitter or skype and the remote moderator would read it out
then?

Greetings,
Norbert

On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 4:52 PM, Martial Bavou[Private Business
Account] <bavouc at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
>
> It is quite not easy to get connected remotely, sound like there is
> something wrong technically, hope this will be sorted out before tomorrow.
> Possible to have some pictures from those who are on site?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
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>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
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From nne75 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  6 13:44:00 2012
From: nne75 at yahoo.com (Nnenna)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 10:44:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [governance] IGF2012, Remote Connection
Message-ID: <1352227440.97160.BPMail_high_noncarrier@web120102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>



Hi Norbert, 

I did try my hands on the machines in two rooms.  They have wired connection.

However, I also got feedback from people who got connected but said they had difficulty in getting sound and video.

Maybe I should hear others.

But overall, I don't think the RP is the greatest achievement of Baku..... to say the least.

Best

Nnenna


------------------------------
On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 6:34 PM GMT Norbert Bollow wrote:

>Dear all,
>
>  as I'm organizing a workshop tomorrow Wednesday, I'd really very
>much like to know to what extent remote participation was possible
>today. I mean, what was working technically? Has it been possible for
>remote people to follow what is going on? Are they able to communicate
>interventions by voice? Is there at least a wire-based Internet
>connection for the Remote Moderator so that remote people can comment
>by irc or twitter or skype and the remote moderator would read it out
>then?
>
>Greetings,
>Norbert
>
>On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 4:52 PM, Martial Bavou[Private Business
>Account] <bavouc at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> It is quite not easy to get connected remotely, sound like there is
>> something wrong technically, hope this will be sorted out before tomorrow.
>> Possible to have some pictures from those who are on site?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>


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From nne75 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  6 13:44:05 2012
From: nne75 at yahoo.com (Nnenna)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 10:44:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [governance] IGF2012, Remote Connection
Message-ID: <1352227445.98654.BPMail_high_noncarrier@web120103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>



Hi Norbert, 

I did try my hands on the machines in two rooms.  They have wired connection.

However, I also got feedback from people who got connected but said they had difficulty in getting sound and video.

Maybe I should hear others.

But overall, I don't think the RP is the greatest achievement of Baku..... to say the least.

Best

Nnenna


------------------------------
On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 6:34 PM GMT Norbert Bollow wrote:

>Dear all,
>
>  as I'm organizing a workshop tomorrow Wednesday, I'd really very
>much like to know to what extent remote participation was possible
>today. I mean, what was working technically? Has it been possible for
>remote people to follow what is going on? Are they able to communicate
>interventions by voice? Is there at least a wire-based Internet
>connection for the Remote Moderator so that remote people can comment
>by irc or twitter or skype and the remote moderator would read it out
>then?
>
>Greetings,
>Norbert
>
>On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 4:52 PM, Martial Bavou[Private Business
>Account] <bavouc at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> It is quite not easy to get connected remotely, sound like there is
>> something wrong technically, hope this will be sorted out before tomorrow.
>> Possible to have some pictures from those who are on site?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>


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From shailam at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  6 13:55:43 2012
From: shailam at yahoo.com (shaila mistry)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 10:55:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [governance] IGF2012, Remote Connection
In-Reply-To: <CALrvCLBFn9nYJrRqA193AThPN3xc6CH9SK2D7HTjvARp_pwncg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAANnlFloumCxMuwwBwSZjX53CgAAAEAAAAHf5BZiUjixMlLGpIsdOWgQBAAAAAA==@gmail.com> <CALrvCLBFn9nYJrRqA193AThPN3xc6CH9SK2D7HTjvARp_pwncg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1352228143.46381.YahooMailNeo@web160505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>



Hi everyone 

I too have tried several times to participate. Each time I am sent a different route of downloads and logins , finally leading to a dead end. 

Please advise what can be done ?
Shaila Rao Mistry


 
The journey begins sooner than you anticipate !
..................... the renaissance of composure !



________________________________
 From: Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch>
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org 
Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2012 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: [governance] IGF2012, Remote Connection
 
Dear all,

  as I'm organizing a workshop tomorrow Wednesday, I'd really very
much like to know to what extent remote participation was possible
today. I mean, what was working technically? Has it been possible for
remote people to follow what is going on? Are they able to communicate
interventions by voice? Is there at least a wire-based Internet
connection for the Remote Moderator so that remote people can comment
by irc or twitter or skype and the remote moderator would read it out
then?

Greetings,
Norbert

On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 4:52 PM, Martial Bavou[Private Business
Account] <bavouc at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
>
> It is quite not easy to get connected remotely, sound like there is
> something wrong technically, hope this will be sorted out before tomorrow.
> Possible to have some pictures from those who are on site?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>


____________________________________________________________
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For all other list information and functions, see:
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From langdonorr at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 14:03:10 2012
From: langdonorr at gmail.com (Cheryl Langdon-Orr)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 06:03:10 +1100
Subject: [governance] Re: Censorship of postcards at the IGF
In-Reply-To: <50993CD9.9070608@gmx.de>
References: <2BA01659-8281-47ED-812A-725E656307DF@unog.ch>
	<4647C94D-5657-42A9-9F98-EA82DCB0F0D5@ciroap.org>
	<50993CD9.9070608@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <CADrRf+cn4-ww4ws-u2rU99n6Y=Dd7eifqA5Ni4HH8-itPbUNWA@mail.gmail.com>

FYI... see what I mean... .. We need to be 'on record in our own files at
least'
On Nov 6, 2012 8:39 PM, "Monika Ermert" <m.ermert at gmx.de> wrote:

>  Hi,
>
> i will  bring it up at the press conference possibly together with another
> case i learned of today from some local people that obviously were
> prevented from distributing material. I got some rough information from a
> Swedish TV team that is about doing a documentary and tried to help. Still
> trying to get details and a contact.
>
> Best,
>
> Monika
>
> Am 06.11.2012 07:39, schrieb Jeremy Malcolm:
>
> So here is the official line.  Questions that this opens up:
>
>  1. If the issue was with "random placement" of the postcards, it should
> be fine to distribute the postcards from any booth that is willing to host
> them within the IGF Village.  So, can we test that hypothesis?  Donny, can
> you try that and see what happens?
>
>  2. One of the postcards had a specific reference to a country?  There is
> none that I could see, but maybe it is on the reverse side?
>
>  3. Like last time, the official rationalisation seems to differ from
> what the individual concerned was told at the time.  This in itself is a
> problem - they are making up the rules as they go along.
>
>  I have edited the document on the pad at
> http://igcaucus.org:9001/p/un-censorship-statement.  I think we have
> enough information now to finalise the statement soon and start gathering
> support and disseminating it.
>
>  Do we have any press contacts on this list who could attend the IGF
> official press conference and raise this matter?
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>  *From: *Chengetai Masango <CMASANGO at unog.ch>
>  *Subject: **Re: Censorship of postcards at the IGF*
>  *Date: *6 November 2012 9:56:06 AM GMT+04:00
>  *To: *jeremy at ciroap.org
>
> Hi Jeremy,
>
>  The main thing about the postcards is that we discourage the random
> placement of literature across the IGF venue. We have designated places
> where people or organisations can deposit their materials for distribution
> or pick up by interested individuals.
>
>  Of the two post cards that I saw, there was no problem with one but the
> other had a specific reference to a country, as you know there is a
> standard  UN policy of not  singling out specific entities or people but
> rather to address the issue. (We hold that it is unfair to single out one
> entity if the issue is not endemic to that particular entity). A
> perfunctory check is done to make sure that this is not the case. This is
> done in an effort to enable free, open and respectful discussion, (which in
> my view is essential in the IGF).
>
>  One of the UN staff had a polite talk with the gentleman distributing
> the postcards and he seemed to understand.
>
>  Best regards
>
>  Chengetai
>
>
>     --
>
> *Dr Jeremy Malcolm
> Senior Policy Officer
> Consumers International | the global campaigning voice for consumers*
> Office for Asia-Pacific and the Middle East
> Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
> Malaysia
> Tel: +60 3 7726 1599
>
> *Your rights, our mission – download CI's Strategy 2015:*
> http://consint.info/RightsMission
>
> @Consumers_Int | www.consumersinternational.org |
> www.facebook.com/consumersinternational
>
> Read our email confidentiality notice<http://www.consumersinternational.org/email-confidentiality>.
> Don't print this email unless necessary.
>
>
>
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From ian.peter at ianpeter.com  Tue Nov  6 14:04:01 2012
From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter)
Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2012 06:04:01 +1100
Subject: [governance] Remote Connection
In-Reply-To: <1352228143.46381.YahooMailNeo@web160505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CCBFAA51.2A416%ian.peter@ianpeter.com>

I didn¹t try remote participation but listened in for a while to Opening
Ceremony. Webcast was OK, only breaking up occasionally.

Ian Peter



From: shaila mistry <shailam at yahoo.com>
Reply-To: <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>, shaila mistry <shailam at yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 10:55:43 -0800 (PST)
To: "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>, Norbert
Bollow <nb at bollow.ch>
Subject: Re: [governance] IGF2012, Remote Connection


Hi everyone 
I too have tried several times to participate. Each time I am sent a
different route of downloads and logins , finally leading to a dead end.
Please advise what can be done ?
Shaila Rao Mistry
 
The journey begins sooner than you anticipate !
..................... the renaissance of composure !

  
 
 
  

  From: Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch>
 To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
 Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2012 10:34 AM
 Subject: Re: [governance] IGF2012, Remote Connection
  
 
Dear all,

  as I'm organizing a workshop tomorrow Wednesday, I'd really very
much like to know to what extent remote participation was possible
today. I mean, what was working technically? Has it been possible for
remote people to follow what is going on? Are they able to communicate
interventions by voice? Is there at least a wire-based Internet
connection for the Remote Moderator so that remote people can comment
by irc or twitter or skype and the remote moderator would read it out
then?

Greetings,
Norbert

On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 4:52 PM, Martial Bavou[Private Business
Account] <bavouc at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
>
> It is quite not easy to get connected remotely, sound like there is
> something wrong technically, hope this will be sorted out before tomorrow.
> Possible to have some pictures from those who are on site?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>


____________________________________________________________
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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


 
 
  


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From admin at alkasir.com  Tue Nov  6 14:08:44 2012
From: admin at alkasir.com (Walid AL-SAQAF <alkasir admin>)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 20:08:44 +0100
Subject: [governance] Remote Connection
In-Reply-To: <CCBFAA51.2A416%ian.peter@ianpeter.com>
References: <1352228143.46381.YahooMailNeo@web160505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<CCBFAA51.2A416%ian.peter@ianpeter.com>
Message-ID: <CAKJSUiw-9zpKziQMj5yjsFaRftHgyg=s1q5mubT=44c0WCqnvw@mail.gmail.com>

I tried the remote participation page but keep getting a remote login page
and I have no way to register.

Sincerely,

Walid

-----------------

Walid Al-Saqaf
Founder & Administrator
alkasir for mapping and circumventing cyber censorship
https://alkasir.com <walid.al-saqaf at oru.se>


On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 8:04 PM, Ian Peter <ian.peter at ianpeter.com> wrote:

>  I didn’t try remote participation but listened in for a while to Opening
> Ceremony. Webcast was OK, only breaking up occasionally.
>
> Ian Peter
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *shaila mistry <shailam at yahoo.com>
> *Reply-To: *<governance at lists.igcaucus.org>, shaila mistry <
> shailam at yahoo.com>
> *Date: *Tue, 6 Nov 2012 10:55:43 -0800 (PST)
> *To: *"governance at lists.igcaucus.org" <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>,
> Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch>
> *Subject: *Re: [governance] IGF2012, Remote Connection
>
>
> Hi everyone
> I too have tried several times to participate. Each time I am sent a
> different route of downloads and logins , finally leading to a dead end.
> Please advise what can be done ?
> Shaila Rao Mistry
>
> *The journey begins sooner than you anticipate !
> ..................... the renaissance of composure !
> *
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>  *From:* Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch>
>  *To:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>  *Sent:* Tuesday, November 6, 2012 10:34 AM
>  *Subject:* Re: [governance] IGF2012, Remote Connection
>
>
> Dear all,
>
>   as I'm organizing a workshop tomorrow Wednesday, I'd really very
> much like to know to what extent remote participation was possible
> today. I mean, what was working technically? Has it been possible for
> remote people to follow what is going on? Are they able to communicate
> interventions by voice? Is there at least a wire-based Internet
> connection for the Remote Moderator so that remote people can comment
> by irc or twitter or skype and the remote moderator would read it out
> then?
>
> Greetings,
> Norbert
>
> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 4:52 PM, Martial Bavou[Private Business
> Account] <bavouc at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> >
> >
> > It is quite not easy to get connected remotely, sound like there is
> > something wrong technically, hope this will be sorted out before
> tomorrow.
> > Possible to have some pictures from those who are on site?
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> > To be removed from the list, visit:
> >      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> >
> > For all other list information and functions, see:
> >      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >      http://www.igcaucus.org/
> >
> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
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>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
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From shailam at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  6 14:16:40 2012
From: shailam at yahoo.com (shaila mistry)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 11:16:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [governance] IGF2012, Remote Connection
In-Reply-To: <1352228143.46381.YahooMailNeo@web160505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAANnlFloumCxMuwwBwSZjX53CgAAAEAAAAHf5BZiUjixMlLGpIsdOWgQBAAAAAA==@gmail.com> <CALrvCLBFn9nYJrRqA193AThPN3xc6CH9SK2D7HTjvARp_pwncg@mail.gmail.com> <1352228143.46381.YahooMailNeo@web160505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1352229400.49284.YahooMailNeo@web160502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>





Hi everyone 

I too have tried several times to participate. Each time I am sent a different route of downloads and logins , finally leading to a dead end. 

Please advise what can be done ?
Shaila Rao Mistry

 
The journey begins sooner than you anticipate !
..................... the renaissance of composure !



________________________________
 From: Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch>
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org 
Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2012 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: [governance] IGF2012, Remote Connection
 
Dear all,

  as I'm organizing a workshop tomorrow Wednesday, I'd really very
much like to know to what extent remote participation was possible
today. I mean, what was working technically? Has it been possible for
remote people to follow what is going on? Are they able to
 communicate
interventions by voice? Is there at least a wire-based Internet
connection for the Remote Moderator so that remote people can comment
by irc or twitter or skype and the remote moderator would read it out
then?

Greetings,
Norbert

On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 4:52 PM, Martial Bavou[Private Business
Account] <bavouc at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
>
> It is quite not easy to get connected remotely, sound like there is
> something wrong technically, hope this will be sorted out before tomorrow.
> Possible to have some pictures from those who are on site?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>


____________________________________________________________
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 list:
    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
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From nb at bollow.ch  Tue Nov  6 15:04:04 2012
From: nb at bollow.ch (Norbert Bollow)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 21:04:04 +0100
Subject: [governance] IGF2012, Remote Connection
In-Reply-To: <1352229400.49284.YahooMailNeo@web160502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAANnlFloumCxMuwwBwSZjX53CgAAAEAAAAHf5BZiUjixMlLGpIsdOWgQBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>
	<CALrvCLBFn9nYJrRqA193AThPN3xc6CH9SK2D7HTjvARp_pwncg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1352228143.46381.YahooMailNeo@web160505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<1352229400.49284.YahooMailNeo@web160502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CALrvCLCfdLa1E15T7mGHRM0wDvQS2PSGf_7+jPTphzq8+C-Ggg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 8:16 PM, shaila mistry <shailam at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi everyone
> I too have tried several times to participate. Each time I am sent a
> different route of downloads and logins , finally leading to a dead end.
> Please advise what can be done ?
> Shaila Rao Mistry

Have you tried contacting

"Remote Participation general help" <rp at intgovforum.org>

?

Do they respond?

If yes, what are they saying?

If no, let us know, so that we can push locally for those help email
addresses to be handled in a meaningful way.

In the long run, what we need is funding to put a competent person in
charge of ensuring in an ongoing manner (year after year) that IGF
remote participation is made available in a way that can be expected
to work (which presupposes learning from what went wrong in earlier
years, and it presupposes serious testing well before the first day of
the IGF). It is simply unacceptable for an entirely new technical team
to put in charge of remote participation every year, and the remote
participation infrastructure again and again being so absurdly
unreliable.)

Greetings,
Norbert

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From wongc at hrw.org  Tue Nov  6 16:26:27 2012
From: wongc at hrw.org (Cynthia Wong)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 21:26:27 +0000
Subject: [governance] FW: URGENT : Open Letter of the Expression Online
 Initiative to Secretariat and Delegates of the 7th IGF
Message-ID: <B6619F3740E5024E89E3B78C5F025A2F0806C9B9@exmbx8.local.hrw.org>

All: see below a press release from the Expression Online Initiative, the consortium of Azerbaijan freedom of expression groups:


From: Expression Online [mailto:info at expressiononline.net]
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 5:39 AM
Subject: URGENT : Open Letter of the Expression Online Initiative to Secretariat and Delegates of the 7th IGF[MARKETING EMAIL]




Open Letter of the Expression Online Initiative to Secretariat and Delegates of the 7th Internet Governance Forum



The Expression Online Initiative is writing to express serious concerns regarding violations of UN main principles that continue to take place during the seventh annual Internet Governance Forum (IGF) in Baku. These violations have included: restrictions on freedom of expression and freedom of association; failure to guarantee equal rights for every participant; and discriminatory practices against local civil society organizations and their representatives.



The Expression Online Initiative is a consortium of Azerbaijani freedom of expression organizations including the Human Rights Club, the Azerbaijan Media Center and the Institute for Reporters’ Freedom and Safety.



In early July 2012, the coalition sent an official request to the IGF Secretariat to make arrangements for a booth at the IGF village. Despite the fact that we sent several follow-up emails, the Secretariat failed to respond until the week before the IGF. At that stage, the Secretariat agreed to provide a booth for the Expression Online Initiative. Then, two days before the event, the Secretariat informed Expression Online that no booth would be available, stating that “preference is given to international organizations.” This statement contradicts the IGF main principle that guarantees equal participation of all stakeholders. As stated in the “IGF Background Note” from 2010, “the IGF serves as a laboratory, a neutral space, where all actors can table an issue. (…) Its UN mandate gives it convening power and the authority to serve as a neutral space for all actors on an equal footing.”



Furthermore, the Secretariat tried to prevent distribution of the Expression Online Initiative’s reports Searching for Freedom: Online Expression in Azerbaijan<http://click.icptrack.com/icp/relay.php?r=23879198&msgid=86020&act=D2LC&c=1203606&destination=http%3A%2F%2Fexpressiononline.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F11%2FReport_EO_1.pdf> and The Right to Remain Silent: Freedom of Expression in Azerbaijan ahead of the 7th Internet Governance Forum<http://click.icptrack.com/icp/relay.php?r=23879198&msgid=86020&act=D2LC&c=1203606&destination=http%3A%2F%2Fexpressiononline.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F11%2FIRFS-REPORT.pdf>. The IGF coordinator told our representatives “You are not allowed to distribute these reports within IGF premises.” Our attempt to distribute these reports, which examine issues in Azerbaijan which are directly relevant to the IGF, were perceived by the Secretariat as an attempt to “attack one of the stakeholder group,” i.e. the Azerbaijani government.



It is worth mentioning that Secretariat staff did attempt to assist the Expression Online Initiative. They suggested that we seek permission from the Azerbaijani government, specifically the Ministry of Communications and Information Technologies (ICT Ministry), to distribute the report. The Secretariat’s IGF Coordinator said “If your government does not find the content insulting we will provide you with the booth and allow distribution of those two reports.” The Expression Online Initiative considers this requirement to seek permission from the authorities to be an undue exercise of influence from the IGF host country.



The matter of the booth was not an isolated incident. Expression Online representatives faced other instances of discriminatory treatment. For example, one representative experienced particular difficulty in attempting to register for the IGF. A representative of UN security subjected him to extensive questioning about his motives for attempting to register and handed his personal ID card to the local authorities. In particular, they asked him whether he planned to stage a protest at the IGF, a question which was again asked by the host country-appointed registration staff.



Representatives of the online television station Obyektiv TV, which is affiliated with the Expression Online Initiative, also experienced discriminatory treatment in seeking to register its correspondents for the IGF. Although they were eventually registered, the host country-appointed registration staff attempted to prevent their registration. As grounds for potential refusal, they claimed that the Azerbaijani ICT Ministry did not consider Obyektiv TV to be a media outlet.



It should be noted that the registration staff are members of an Azerbaijani pro-governmental youth organization which has a vested interest in interfering with who can attend the IGF.



The Expression Online Initiative calls for an immediate investigation into these and other reports of violations of rights and discriminatory treatment, and public clarification about the relevant procedures for registration and dissemination of materials.




[http://staticapp.icpsc.com/icp/loadimage.php/mogile/1203606/e540cc4668aa984006923bd65d291310/image/png]
Expression Online Initiative



Address:

8 R. Behbudov St., Apt. 85/86, Baku, Azerbaijan

e-mail: info at expressiononline.net<mailto:info at expressiononline.net>

phone :

(+99450) 398 48 38

(+99450)  508-78-87













Expression Online Initiative | R.Behbudov 8, apt 85/86 | Baku, Sabael AZ1000, Azerbaijan


Email Marketing by [iContact - Try It Free!] <http://www.icontact.com/a.pl/144186>


Update Profile <http://app.icontact.com/icp/mmail-mprofile.pl?r=23879198&l=985&s=D2LC&m=86020&c=1203606>  |  Send To a Friend <http://app.icontact.com/icp/core/message/forward?m=86020&s=23879198&c=D2LC&cid=1203606>


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From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 16:28:22 2012
From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 10:28:22 +1300
Subject: [governance] FW: URGENT : Open Letter of the Expression Online
 Initiative to Secretariat and Delegates of the 7th IGF
In-Reply-To: <B6619F3740E5024E89E3B78C5F025A2F0806C9B9@exmbx8.local.hrw.org>
References: <B6619F3740E5024E89E3B78C5F025A2F0806C9B9@exmbx8.local.hrw.org>
Message-ID: <CAJwbTiAh+bsuArf1J1rsgj63+ttMe_OBxsxbKL3Hay0Cs7JHng@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you Cynthia.

Dear All - Now would be a great time to release the Statement that we
worked earlier in the year.

Sala

On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Cynthia Wong <wongc at hrw.org> wrote:

>  All: see below a press release from the Expression Online Initiative,
> the consortium of Azerbaijan freedom of expression groups:****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Expression Online [mailto:info at expressiononline.net<info at expressiononline.net>]
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2012 5:39 AM
> *Subject:* URGENT : Open Letter of the Expression Online Initiative to
> Secretariat and Delegates of the 7th IGF[MARKETING EMAIL] ****
>
> ** **
>
>  ****
>
> *Open Letter of the Expression Online Initiative to Secretariat and
> Delegates of the 7th Internet Governance Forum*****
>
>  ****
>
> The Expression Online Initiative is writing to express serious concerns
> regarding violations of UN main principles that continue to take place
> during the seventh annual Internet Governance Forum (IGF) in Baku. These
> violations have included: restrictions on freedom of expression and freedom
> of association; failure to guarantee equal rights for every participant;
> and discriminatory practices against local civil society organizations and
> their representatives.****
>
>  ****
>
> The Expression Online Initiative is a consortium of Azerbaijani freedom of
> expression organizations including the Human Rights Club, the Azerbaijan
> Media Center and the Institute for Reporters’ Freedom and Safety.****
>
>  ****
>
> In early July 2012, the coalition sent an official request to the IGF
> Secretariat to make arrangements for a booth at the IGF village. Despite
> the fact that we sent several follow-up emails, the Secretariat failed to
> respond until the week before the IGF. At that stage, the Secretariat
> agreed to provide a booth for the Expression Online Initiative. Then, two
> days before the event, the Secretariat informed Expression Online that no
> booth would be available, stating that “preference is given to
> international organizations.” This statement contradicts the IGF main
> principle that guarantees equal participation of all stakeholders. As
> stated in the “IGF Background Note” from 2010, “the IGF serves as a
> laboratory, a neutral space, where all actors can table an issue. (…) Its
> UN mandate gives it convening power and the authority to serve as a neutral
> space for all actors on an equal footing.”****
>
>  ****
>
> Furthermore, the Secretariat tried to prevent distribution of the
> Expression Online Initiative’s reports *Searching for Freedom: Online
> Expression in Azerbaijan<http://click.icptrack.com/icp/relay.php?r=23879198&msgid=86020&act=D2LC&c=1203606&destination=http%3A%2F%2Fexpressiononline.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F11%2FReport_EO_1.pdf>
> * and The Right to Remain Silent: Freedom of Expression in Azerbaijan
> ahead of the 7th Internet Governance Forum<http://click.icptrack.com/icp/relay.php?r=23879198&msgid=86020&act=D2LC&c=1203606&destination=http%3A%2F%2Fexpressiononline.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F11%2FIRFS-REPORT.pdf>.
> The IGF coordinator told our representatives “You are not allowed to
> distribute these reports within IGF premises.” Our attempt to distribute
> these reports, which examine issues in Azerbaijan which are directly
> relevant to the IGF, were perceived by the Secretariat as an attempt to
> “attack one of the stakeholder group,” i.e. the Azerbaijani government.***
> *
>
>  ****
>
> It is worth mentioning that Secretariat staff did attempt to assist the
> Expression Online Initiative. They suggested that we seek permission from
> the Azerbaijani government, specifically the Ministry of Communications and
> Information Technologies (ICT Ministry), to distribute the report. The
> Secretariat’s IGF Coordinator said “If your government does not find the
> content insulting we will provide you with the booth and allow distribution
> of those two reports.” The Expression Online Initiative considers this
> requirement to seek permission from the authorities to be an undue exercise
> of influence from the IGF host country.****
>
>  ****
>
> The matter of the booth was not an isolated incident. Expression Online
> representatives faced other instances of discriminatory treatment. For
> example, one representative experienced particular difficulty in attempting
> to register for the IGF. A representative of UN security subjected him to
> extensive questioning about his motives for attempting to register and
> handed his personal ID card to the local authorities. In particular, they
> asked him whether he planned to stage a protest at the IGF, a question
> which was again asked by the host country-appointed registration staff.***
> *
>
>  ****
>
> Representatives of the online television station Obyektiv TV, which is
> affiliated with the Expression Online Initiative, also experienced
> discriminatory treatment in seeking to register its correspondents for the
> IGF. Although they were eventually registered, the host country-appointed
> registration staff attempted to prevent their registration. As grounds for
> potential refusal, they claimed that the Azerbaijani ICT Ministry did not
> consider Obyektiv TV to be a media outlet.****
>
>  ****
>
> It should be noted that the registration staff are members of an
> Azerbaijani pro-governmental youth organization which has a vested interest
> in interfering with who can attend the IGF.****
>
>  ****
>
> The Expression Online Initiative calls for an immediate investigation into
> these and other reports of violations of rights and discriminatory
> treatment, and public clarification about the relevant procedures for
> registration and dissemination of materials.****
>
>  ****
>
>
> Expression Online Initiative****
>
>  ****
>
> Address:****
>
> 8 R. Behbudov St., Apt. 85/86, Baku, Azerbaijan****
>
> e-mail: info at expressiononline.net****
>
> phone : ****
>
> (+99450) 398 48 38****
>
> (+99450)  508-78-87****
>
>  ****
>
> ** **
>
>  ****
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> Expression Online Initiative | R.Behbudov 8, apt 85/86 | Baku, Sabael
> AZ1000, Azerbaijan****
>
> Email Marketing by [image: iContact - Try It Free!]<http://www.icontact.com/a.pl/144186>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> *Update Profile *<http://app.icontact.com/icp/mmail-mprofile.pl?r=23879198&l=985&s=D2LC&m=86020&c=1203606> |
> *Send To a Friend *<http://app.icontact.com/icp/core/message/forward?m=86020&s=23879198&c=D2LC&cid=1203606>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
P.O. Box 17862
Suva
Fiji

Twitter: @SalanietaT
Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
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From ivissioninternational at yahoo.fr  Tue Nov  6 16:35:30 2012
From: ivissioninternational at yahoo.fr (International Ivission)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 21:35:30 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [governance] FW: URGENT : Open Letter of the Expression Online
 Initiative to Secretariat and Delegates of the 7th IGF
In-Reply-To: <CAJwbTiAh+bsuArf1J1rsgj63+ttMe_OBxsxbKL3Hay0Cs7JHng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1352237730.38169.YahooMailClassic@web171305.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>

Dear all,

it will be just wonderful to get the document read during the event and also published on Youtube for us to relay it locally.

regards,


___________________________________
  Asama Abel Excel
President and CEO
I-VISSION INTERNATIONAL
 Box 13040 Blvd de la rep., Feu Rouge BessenguéDouala Cameroon
 E: ivissioninternational at yahoo.fr / excelasama at yahoo.fr : info at ivission.net
 T (bur): +237 33 76 55 76 /
 T (Mob): 99 44 43 91 / 76 14 26 23Skype (office): i-vission (personal): excelasama Web: www.ivission.net 
 Web album: www.flickr.com/ivission
 Facebook: ivission.internationlTwitter: www.twitter.com/ivission 
 NWK: www.meetup.com/ivission

--- En date de : Mar 6.11.12, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> a écrit :

De: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com>
Objet: Re: [governance] FW: URGENT : Open Letter of the Expression Online Initiative to Secretariat and Delegates of the 7th IGF
À: governance at lists.igcaucus.org, "Cynthia Wong" <wongc at hrw.org>
Date: Mardi 6 novembre 2012, 21h28

Thank you Cynthia.
Dear All - Now would be a great time to release the Statement that we worked earlier in the year.
Sala

On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Cynthia Wong <wongc at hrw.org> wrote:









All: see below a press release from the Expression Online Initiative, the consortium of Azerbaijan freedom of expression groups:

 
 


From: Expression Online [mailto:info at expressiononline.net]


Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 5:39 AM

Subject: URGENT : Open Letter of the Expression Online Initiative to Secretariat and Delegates of the 7th IGF[MARKETING EMAIL]



 






















 
Open Letter of the Expression Online Initiative to Secretariat and Delegates of the 7th Internet Governance Forum

 
The Expression Online Initiative is writing to express serious concerns regarding violations of UN main principles
 that continue to take place during the seventh annual Internet Governance Forum (IGF) in Baku. These violations have included: restrictions on freedom of expression and freedom of association; failure to guarantee equal rights for every participant; and discriminatory
 practices against local civil society organizations and their representatives.
 
The Expression Online Initiative is a consortium of Azerbaijani freedom of expression organizations including the
 Human Rights Club, the Azerbaijan Media Center and the Institute for Reporters’ Freedom and Safety.

 
In early July 2012, the coalition sent an official request to the IGF Secretariat to make arrangements for a booth
 at the IGF village. Despite the fact that we sent several follow-up emails, the Secretariat failed to respond until the week before the IGF. At that stage, the Secretariat agreed to provide a booth for the Expression Online Initiative. Then, two days before
 the event, the Secretariat informed Expression Online that no booth would be available, stating that “preference is given to international organizations.” This statement contradicts the IGF main principle that guarantees equal participation of all stakeholders.
 As stated in the “IGF Background Note” from 2010, “the IGF serves as a laboratory, a neutral space, where all actors can table an issue. (…) Its UN mandate gives it convening power and the authority to serve as a neutral space for all actors on an equal footing.”

 
Furthermore, the Secretariat tried to prevent distribution of the Expression Online Initiative’s reports
Searching
 for Freedom: Online Expression in Azerbaijan and

The Right to Remain Silent: Freedom of Expression in Azerbaijan ahead of the 7th Internet Governance Forum. The IGF coordinator told our representatives “You are not allowed to distribute these reports within IGF premises.” Our attempt to distribute these
 reports, which examine issues in Azerbaijan which are directly relevant to the IGF, were perceived by the Secretariat as an attempt to “attack one of the stakeholder group,” i.e. the Azerbaijani government.

 
It is worth mentioning that Secretariat staff did attempt to assist the Expression Online Initiative. They suggested
 that we seek permission from the Azerbaijani government, specifically the Ministry of Communications and Information Technologies (ICT Ministry), to distribute the report. The Secretariat’s IGF Coordinator said “If your government does not find the content
 insulting we will provide you with the booth and allow distribution of those two reports.” The Expression Online Initiative considers this requirement to seek permission from the authorities to be an undue exercise of influence from the IGF host country.

 
The matter of the booth was not an isolated incident. Expression Online representatives faced other instances of
 discriminatory treatment. For example, one representative experienced particular difficulty in attempting to register for the IGF. A representative of UN security subjected him to extensive questioning about his motives for attempting to register and handed
 his personal ID card to the local authorities. In particular, they asked him whether he planned to stage a protest at the IGF, a question which was again asked by the host country-appointed registration staff.

 
Representatives of the online television station Obyektiv TV, which is affiliated with the Expression Online Initiative,
 also experienced discriminatory treatment in seeking to register its correspondents for the IGF. Although they were eventually registered, the host country-appointed registration staff attempted to prevent their registration. As grounds for potential refusal,
 they claimed that the Azerbaijani ICT Ministry did not consider Obyektiv TV to be a media outlet.

 
It should be noted that the registration staff are members of an Azerbaijani pro-governmental youth organization
 which has a vested interest in interfering with who can attend the IGF.
 
The Expression Online Initiative calls for an immediate investigation into these and other reports of violations
 of rights and discriminatory treatment, and public clarification about the relevant procedures for registration and dissemination of materials.










 


Expression Online Initiative

 
Address:

8 R. Behbudov St., Apt. 85/86, Baku, Azerbaijan

e-mail:
info at expressiononline.net
phone : 

(+99450) 398 48 38

(+99450)  508-78-87

 





 




 























 





Expression Online Initiative | R.Behbudov 8, apt 85/86 | Baku, Sabael AZ1000, Azerbaijan


Email Marketing by





 




Update Profile
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Send To a Friend










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-- 
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka SalaP.O. Box 17862SuvaFiji
Twitter: @SalanietaTSkype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
 




-----La pièce jointe associée suit-----

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From gurstein at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 22:37:38 2012
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 07:37:38 +0400
Subject: [governance] FW: TODAY 2.30-4.00 Workshop: National IG
 Mechanisms - Looking at Some Key Design Issues
In-Reply-To: <CALLeeast--ZeM8gXHMgvQimbE-RzK-eX8aAQrby3ZOvdZHUNnQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <008901cdbbe0$003eda80$00bc8f80$@gmail.com>	<000001cdbbe5$35694a10$a03bde30$@gmail.com> <CALLeeast--ZeM8gXHMgvQimbE-RzK-eX8aAQrby3ZOvdZHUNnQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <039301cdbc99$3e544260$bafcc720$@gmail.com>

Thanks Sea! (and also replying to McTim.

 

One of the themes that ran through the presentations was the role that a
multistakeholder approach to national internet governance could, as in
several of the cases cited (CGI.br and InternetNZ) lead to a more pro-active
involvement of the National Internet Governance agency in promoting Internet
for all.  

 

Where there was, for example a largely industry, technical or government
dominated National Internet Governance mechanism the activities (and
outputs) of those mechanisms tended rather to support the narrower interests
of those communities rather than providing broader support (and in some
cases resources) for the development of the Internet as a "public good" and
"Internet for All"

 

M

 

From: soekpe at gmail.com [mailto:soekpe at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Sonigitu Ekpe
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 8:02 PM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; michael gurstein
Subject: Re: [governance] FW: TODAY 2.30-4.00 Workshop: National IG
Mechanisms - Looking at Some Key Design Issues

 

Great uncle Michael.

+1 for the need to share national experience.

I have a strong support for enhanced cooperation to move the
multi-stakeholders dimension of  Internet for all. 

Sea

On Nov 6, 2012 7:10 AM, "michael gurstein" <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:

We just learned of the change in date from Friday at 2.30-4.00 TODAY at
2.30-4.00 (Rm. 10) ... Sorry for any confusion.

The broad objective of the Workshop is to explore alternative strategies for
managing in the public interest Internet resources at the national level
based on the practical experience of several countries in this area--notably
Brazil, New Zealand, India, and Kenya.

(We would invite others of those with an interest and experience to
present/discuss this from their own national experience as well.)

Mike



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From gurstein at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 22:37:38 2012
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 07:37:38 +0400
Subject: [governance] FW: TODAY 2.30-4.00 Workshop: National IG
 Mechanisms - Looking at Some Key Design Issues
In-Reply-To: <CACAaNxjNpRQbU=-4q_Dtpb7GFGLTk13whGxjdhE6w28n0BLiCA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <008901cdbbe0$003eda80$00bc8f80$@gmail.com> <000001cdbbe5$35694a10$a03bde30$@gmail.com> <CACAaNxjNpRQbU=-4q_Dtpb7GFGLTk13whGxjdhE6w28n0BLiCA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <039801cdbc99$55003eb0$ff00bc10$@gmail.com>

Yes, thanks McTim... When we made the proposal for the Workshop we didn't
know of the ISOC research...The two reports (there is also  case study on
Kenya) are, on quick examination, very useful and we were fortunate to have
David Souter the author come and give a brief intro to those reports.

There will be a report on the Workshop, but briefly, there was quite a lot
of interest in the subject--both from Developed and LDC's and a
(surprising?) range of mechanisms/national strategies for dealing with
Internet Governance at the national level.  Some good practices were
presented--CGI.br (Brazil), CIRA (Canada), Internet NZ (NZ)) and some
challenges were presented--national interference (Ukraine), inclusiveness
for cybercafes (india), responding to emergency conditions (Cote
d'Ivoire)--so a lot of scope for follow up on the issue which a number of
those attending the Workshop indicated an interest in doing.

I'm compiling a list of those who want to continue the discussion so anyone
with an interest please send an email to me <gurstein at gmail.com> (and feel
free to pass this invitation along to anyone with an interest).

Also, with this note I'ld like to thank the panelists--Byron Holland (CIRA),
Susan Chalmers (InternetNZ), Carlos Afonso (CGI.br), Pranesh Prakesh
(CIS-India), Tapani Tarvainen (EFF-Finland) and particularly David Souter
(who rushed from the launch of his reports) for their contributions.

Best,

M

-----Original Message-----
From: McTim [mailto:dogwallah at gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 7:31 PM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; michael gurstein
Subject: Re: [governance] FW: TODAY 2.30-4.00 Workshop: National IG
Mechanisms - Looking at Some Key Design Issues

ISOC comissiooned a study on this, just came out at:

 www.internetsociety.org/assessing_national_IG

On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 1:08 AM, michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:
> We just learned of the change in date from Friday at 2.30-4.00 TODAY 
> at
> 2.30-4.00 (Rm. 10) ... Sorry for any confusion.
>
> The broad objective of the Workshop is to explore alternative 
> strategies for managing in the public interest Internet resources at 
> the national level based on the practical experience of several 
> countries in this area--notably Brazil, New Zealand, India, and Kenya.
>
> (We would invite others of those with an interest and experience to 
> present/discuss this from their own national experience as well.)
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
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>



--
Cheers,

McTim
"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route
indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel


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From gurstein at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 22:53:06 2012
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 07:53:06 +0400
Subject: [governance] FW: TODAY 2.30-4.00 Workshop: National IG
 Mechanisms - Looking at Some Key Design Issues
In-Reply-To: <DUB114-W137A6B24037EE8320699192DB6B0@phx.gbl>
References: <008901cdbbe0$003eda80$00bc8f80$@gmail.com>,<000001cdbbe5$35694a10$a03bde30$@gmail.com>,<CALLeeast--ZeM8gXHMgvQimbE-RzK-eX8aAQrby3ZOvdZHUNnQ@mail.gmail.com> <DUB114-W137A6B24037EE8320699192DB6B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <03b601cdbc9b$67989ca0$36c9d5e0$@gmail.com>

Thanks Antoine but it looks like your most interesting offer came too late
in the day. However, I would invite you to join the on-going discussion that
will be a follow-on from the Workshop and where I'm sure your contribution
wil be most useful.

 

Best,

 

Mike

 

From: ANTOINE KANTIZA [mailto:antoinekantiza at hotmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 8:31 PM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; gurstein at gmail.com
Subject: RE: [governance] FW: TODAY 2.30-4.00 Workshop: National IG
Mechanisms - Looking at Some Key Design Issues

 

 

 

Dear Michael Gurstein,

 

Warm greeting from Bujumbura,

 

I am ready to share my experience related to the management of public
interest resources in Burundi during the forthcoming workshop.

.

It is worth mentioning that I have an interest in the Internet subject as I
am Expert in Internet Governance as well as in Intellectual Property Rights
focused  on the online content.

 

Best regards,

  


Prof Antoine KANTIZA, Master UTICEF,-
Webmaster à la Radio-Télévision Nationale du Burundi
 <http://www.burundi-quotidien.net/> http://www.burundi-quotidien.net  &
http://www.rtnb.bi/
Représentant légal de l'ASBL PLEAD " PROMOTION DE L'EDUCATION  A DISTANCE"

 <http://promotioneducationdistance.blogspot.com/>
http://promotioneducationdistance.blogspot.com 

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/antoine-kantiza/25/603/446

  

  _____  

Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 17:01:30 +0100
From: sonigituekpe at crossriverstate.gov.ng
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; gurstein at gmail.com
Subject: Re: [governance] FW: TODAY 2.30-4.00 Workshop: National IG
Mechanisms - Looking at Some Key Design Issues

Great uncle Michael.
+1 for the need to share national experience.
I have a strong support for enhanced cooperation to move the
multi-stakeholders dimension of  Internet for all. 
Sea

On Nov 6, 2012 7:10 AM, "michael gurstein" <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:

We just learned of the change in date from Friday at 2.30-4.00 TODAY at
2.30-4.00 (Rm. 10) ... Sorry for any confusion.

The broad objective of the Workshop is to explore alternative strategies for
managing in the public interest Internet resources at the national level
based on the practical experience of several countries in this area--notably
Brazil, New Zealand, India, and Kenya.

(We would invite others of those with an interest and experience to
present/discuss this from their own national experience as well.)

Mike



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From gideonrop at gmail.com  Wed Nov  7 01:15:59 2012
From: gideonrop at gmail.com (Gideon)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 09:15:59 +0300
Subject: [governance] Good Bye .DOTAFRICA: ICANN Approves the Change
 Request Made by DotConnectAfrica Trust for Its .Africa
In-Reply-To: <E1TVlJ2-0004V3-5L@frodo.hserus.net>
References: <E1TVlJ2-0004V3-5L@frodo.hserus.net>
Message-ID: <CAP2ohHE5UDxtXWqud4MR7yvUSUymsZ4vBdEe_HqFXAs=JvsAvw@mail.gmail.com>

So what, this is just one person's opinion and means nothing, in fact
focuses only on endorsement issues and not the merit of the .africa
application.  However DCA's announcement is a significant update, as the
industry needs to be informed, including you and some people who made
comments on .dotafrica on this forum. as well as the competition which
falsely claimed "ICANN says there is only one .africa".



Good day


On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 6:43 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net>wrote:

> Very well put. Thanks for sharing.
>
> --srs (htc one x)
>
>
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "William New" <wnew at ip-watch.ch>
> To: <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>, "'Suresh Ramasubramanian'" <
> suresh at hserus.net>, "'Gideon'" <gideonrop at gmail.com>
> Subject: [governance] Good Bye .DOTAFRICA: ICANN Approves the Change
> Request Made by DotConnectAfrica Trust for Its .Africa
> Date: Tue, Nov 6, 2012 7:24 PM
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.ip-watch.org/2012/11/03/top-level-domain-africa-becomes-object-of-bitter-fight/
>
>
>
>
>
> From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:
> governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Suresh Ramasubramanian
> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 8:34 AM
> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Gideon
> Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> Subject: Re: [governance] Good Bye .DOTAFRICA: ICANN Approves the Change
> Request Made by DotConnectAfrica Trust for Its .Africa
>
>
>
>
> so,,,?  does this suddenly award you the .africa TLD or something?
>
> --srs (iPad)
>
>
> On 06-Nov-2012, at 12:10, Gideon <gideonrop at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Good Bye .DOTAFRICA:  ICANN Approves the Change Request Made by
> DotConnectAfrica Trust for Its .Africa
>
>
> http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs123/1102516344150/archive/1111325860695.html
>
>
>
> Gideon Rop
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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From iza at anr.org  Wed Nov  7 01:25:33 2012
From: iza at anr.org (Izumi AIZU)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 15:25:33 +0900
Subject: [governance] Come to OUR workshop,11:00 today. Room#5
Message-ID: <CA+YNoKh=XXqDiR2=ck5===W3Y2QrfAgOqdu-POyQV5s9BC3Ukg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list,

This is last minute call, please come to OUR workshop #85, Quo Vadis,
or Improvement of IGF, Today, 11:00 am, Room #5.

IGS is the main organizer of this event, and we should have treat
interaction if you join.

In addition to the speakers published below, I would like to inform
you that Parminder agreed to be the additional speaker.


Mr. Peter Major, Chair, CSTD Working Group on IGF Improvement, Special
Advisor, Permanent Mission of Hungary to the United Nations in Geneva

Wolfgang Kleinwächter, Professor for International Communication
Policy and Regulation, University of Aarhus

Ms. Mervi Kultamaa, Counsellor, Information Society & Trade
Facilitation, Ministry for Foreign Affairs of Finland, Department for
External Economic Relations

Mr. Markus Kummer, Vice President of Public Policy, Internet Society

Parminder Jeet Singh. Executive Director, IT for Change

Moderator: Izumi Aizu, Senior Research Fellow, Institute for
InfoSocionomics, Tama University

Remote Moderator:
Ms. Avri Doria, dotgay LLC - Policy & Governance, Volunteer Researcher
- Association for Progressive Communications

http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/w2012/proposals

Thanks and see you all there!!

izumi

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From jeremy at ciroap.org  Wed Nov  7 01:33:49 2012
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 10:33:49 +0400
Subject: [governance] Come to OUR workshop,11:00 today. Room#5
In-Reply-To: <CA+YNoKh=XXqDiR2=ck5===W3Y2QrfAgOqdu-POyQV5s9BC3Ukg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKh=XXqDiR2=ck5===W3Y2QrfAgOqdu-POyQV5s9BC3Ukg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AF3A4926-4963-4DE0-83C9-E27E673B53B4@ciroap.org>

On 07/11/2012, at 10:25 AM, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:

> This is last minute call, please come to OUR workshop #85, Quo Vadis,
> or Improvement of IGF, Today, 11:00 am, Room #5.


Sorry that I can't make it, because I am chairing at workshop on broadband and consumer protection at the same time, but really I look forward to reading the report that follows.

-- 
Dr Jeremy Malcolm
Senior Policy Officer
Consumers International | the global campaigning voice for consumers
Office for Asia-Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Your rights, our mission – download CI's Strategy 2015: http://consint.info/RightsMission

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From iza at anr.org  Wed Nov  7 01:44:36 2012
From: iza at anr.org (Izumi AIZU)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 15:44:36 +0900
Subject: [governance] Great speech, Carlos!
Message-ID: <CA+YNoKh88f=A0sHBYJNprTQ45BpFTybB9wOV1Q1jXEH8Y-WQMQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Carlos,

I hear many people really liked your speech yesterday, at the opening
session. In fact, one of the government reps told me this morning it
was THE BEST among all speeches of all guest speakers.

I also was asked to get File version of your speech, Carlos, to be shared.

To confess, I was not able to listen you since I was have some
preparatory meeting for Emerging Issues main session, so I also need
your speech in print/file. I am sure there are many others like me.

Many thanks,

izumi


--
                     >> Izumi Aizu <<
Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
Japan
www.anr.org

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From glaser at cgi.br  Wed Nov  7 01:53:16 2012
From: glaser at cgi.br (Hartmut Richard Glaser)
Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2012 04:53:16 -0200
Subject: [governance] Great speech, Carlos!
In-Reply-To: <CA+YNoKh88f=A0sHBYJNprTQ45BpFTybB9wOV1Q1jXEH8Y-WQMQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKh88f=A0sHBYJNprTQ45BpFTybB9wOV1Q1jXEH8Y-WQMQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <509A055C.70401@cgi.br>


Your Excellencies, Mr Wu Hongbo, Under Secretary General, Undesa, 
Chairman minister Ali Abatov, Secretary Chengetai Masango, in the name 
of whom I wish to salute all present authorities; ladies and gentlemen:

I have been assigned the honorable task of speaking in the opening 
ceremony of this IGF in the name of civil society organizations, social 
movements and individuals active in Internet governance processes, many 
of them involved in these processes since the inception of WSIS nearly 
10 years ago. Several of them collaborated with me in drafting the 
following statement.

We believe that the absence of gatekeepers and the open, global 
communication enabled by the Internet is crucial to realize the promise 
of Article 19 of the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights. To impose 
restrictions (legal or otherwise) to the free flow of information is and 
has always been contrary to the individual human right to freedom of 
expression.

We therefore oppose efforts to create "national Internets," or to block 
and filter Internet access in ways that deny individuals access to 
applications, content and services of their choice.

All attempts to deem certain forms of communication and information 
illegal and restrict or block them must follow established, transparent, 
due processes of law and should not involve prior restraint.

We oppose efforts to militarize the Internet, or any actions that would 
foster a destructive and wasteful cyber arms race among governments or 
private actors. We consider the covert use of exploits and malware for 
surveillance or attacks to be criminal regardless of whether they are 
deployed by governments, private corporations or organized criminals.

We are skeptical of efforts to subordinate the design and use of 
information and communication technology to "national security" agendas. 
We believe that Internet security will be achieved primarily at the 
operational level and that national security and military agendas often 
work against rather than for users' security needs.

In the processes of policy formulation, we emphasize the need to 
prioritize dialogue with policy makers over their subordinated law 
enforcement agencies.

Global governance institutions should not be restricted to states, so we 
welcome the additional participation in global policy making that 
multi-stakeholder processes provide. But we caution that 
multi-stakeholder participation is not an end in itself.

Opening up global governance institutions to additional voices from 
civil society and business does not by itself ensure that individual 
rights are adequately protected or that the best substantive policies 
are developed and enforced.

In the informal spaces created by pluralist institutions, it is possible 
that powerful governmental and corporate actors can make deals contrary 
to the interests of Internet users.

Multistakeholder processes, while involving all interest groups, must 
incorporate and institutionalize concepts of due process, separation of 
powers and user's inalienable civil and political rights, and 
governmental decision-making ought to take into account the inputs of 
all participants of such pluralist processes.

Let us remind ourselves that participation goes beyond representation, 
and participation in decision-making goes beyond just debates and 
dialogues.

Regarding the ITR review process to be concluded in Dubai (and here I 
use the standard terminology the technical community defines to refer to 
the different components of the network):

We agree that the internet layer and the layers above it (transport 
layer and applications layer) should not be included in any way in the 
regulations, while the free flow of Internet packets should be 
guaranteed in the link layer, in line with network neutrality in which 
Internet packets are never touched by the operators providing the 
physical connectivity infrastructure.

Let the Internet flourish freely to the benefit of those who live at its 
edges, which are all of us. Thank you.

===



On 07/11/12 04:44, Izumi AIZU wrote:
> Dear Carlos,
>
> I hear many people really liked your speech yesterday, at the opening
> session. In fact, one of the government reps told me this morning it
> was THE BEST among all speeches of all guest speakers.
>
> I also was asked to get File version of your speech, Carlos, to be shared.
>
> To confess, I was not able to listen you since I was have some
> preparatory meeting for Emerging Issues main session, so I also need
> your speech in print/file. I am sure there are many others like me.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> izumi
>
>
> --
>                       >> Izumi Aizu <<
> Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
> Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
> Japan
> www.anr.org
>


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From gate.one205 at yahoo.fr  Wed Nov  7 02:34:59 2012
From: gate.one205 at yahoo.fr (Jean-Yves GATETE)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 07:34:59 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [governance] Great speech, Carlos!
In-Reply-To: <509A055C.70401@cgi.br>
Message-ID: <1352273699.25289.YahooMailClassic@web172501.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>

Thanks for sharing, 
That is a real great speech
J-Y Gatete

--- En date de : Mer 7.11.12, Hartmut Richard Glaser <glaser at cgi.br> a écrit :

De: Hartmut Richard Glaser <glaser at cgi.br>
Objet: Re: [governance] Great speech, Carlos!
À: governance at lists.igcaucus.org, "Izumi AIZU" <iza at anr.org>
Cc: "Carlos A. Afonso" <ca at cafonso.ca>
Date: Mercredi 7 novembre 2012, 7h53


Your Excellencies, Mr Wu Hongbo, Under Secretary General, Undesa, Chairman minister Ali Abatov, Secretary Chengetai Masango, in the name of whom I wish to salute all present authorities; ladies and gentlemen:

I have been assigned the honorable task of speaking in the opening ceremony of this IGF in the name of civil society organizations, social movements and individuals active in Internet governance processes, many of them involved in these processes since the inception of WSIS nearly 10 years ago. Several of them collaborated with me in drafting the following statement.

We believe that the absence of gatekeepers and the open, global communication enabled by the Internet is crucial to realize the promise of Article 19 of the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights. To impose restrictions (legal or otherwise) to the free flow of information is and has always been contrary to the individual human right to freedom of expression.

We therefore oppose efforts to create "national Internets," or to block and filter Internet access in ways that deny individuals access to applications, content and services of their choice.

All attempts to deem certain forms of communication and information illegal and restrict or block them must follow established, transparent, due processes of law and should not involve prior restraint.

We oppose efforts to militarize the Internet, or any actions that would foster a destructive and wasteful cyber arms race among governments or private actors. We consider the covert use of exploits and malware for surveillance or attacks to be criminal regardless of whether they are deployed by governments, private corporations or organized criminals.

We are skeptical of efforts to subordinate the design and use of information and communication technology to "national security" agendas. We believe that Internet security will be achieved primarily at the operational level and that national security and military agendas often work against rather than for users' security needs.

In the processes of policy formulation, we emphasize the need to prioritize dialogue with policy makers over their subordinated law enforcement agencies.

Global governance institutions should not be restricted to states, so we welcome the additional participation in global policy making that multi-stakeholder processes provide. But we caution that multi-stakeholder participation is not an end in itself.

Opening up global governance institutions to additional voices from civil society and business does not by itself ensure that individual rights are adequately protected or that the best substantive policies are developed and enforced.

In the informal spaces created by pluralist institutions, it is possible that powerful governmental and corporate actors can make deals contrary to the interests of Internet users.

Multistakeholder processes, while involving all interest groups, must incorporate and institutionalize concepts of due process, separation of powers and user's inalienable civil and political rights, and governmental decision-making ought to take into account the inputs of all participants of such pluralist processes.

Let us remind ourselves that participation goes beyond representation, and participation in decision-making goes beyond just debates and dialogues.

Regarding the ITR review process to be concluded in Dubai (and here I use the standard terminology the technical community defines to refer to the different components of the network):

We agree that the internet layer and the layers above it (transport layer and applications layer) should not be included in any way in the regulations, while the free flow of Internet packets should be guaranteed in the link layer, in line with network neutrality in which Internet packets are never touched by the operators providing the physical connectivity infrastructure.

Let the Internet flourish freely to the benefit of those who live at its edges, which are all of us. Thank you.

===



On 07/11/12 04:44, Izumi AIZU wrote:
> Dear Carlos,
> 
> I hear many people really liked your speech yesterday, at the opening
> session. In fact, one of the government reps told me this morning it
> was THE BEST among all speeches of all guest speakers.
> 
> I also was asked to get File version of your speech, Carlos, to be shared.
> 
> To confess, I was not able to listen you since I was have some
> preparatory meeting for Emerging Issues main session, so I also need
> your speech in print/file. I am sure there are many others like me.
> 
> Many thanks,
> 
> izumi
> 
> 
> --
>                       >> Izumi Aizu <<
> Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
> Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
> Japan
> www.anr.org
> 



-----La pièce jointe associée suit-----

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From suresh at hserus.net  Wed Nov  7 03:13:16 2012
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 00:13:16 -0800
Subject: [governance] Good Bye .DOTAFRICA: ICANN Approves the Change
 Request Made by DotConnectAfrica Trust for Its .Africa
In-Reply-To: <CAP2ohHE5UDxtXWqud4MR7yvUSUymsZ4vBdEe_HqFXAs=JvsAvw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E1TVlJ2-0004V3-5L@frodo.hserus.net>
 <CAP2ohHE5UDxtXWqud4MR7yvUSUymsZ4vBdEe_HqFXAs=JvsAvw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121107081316.GA28721@hserus.net>

Let us see, let us see. You still need an AU endorsement and 60% of the
countries in africa, not a letter of support which has been explicitly
withdrawn. And then you still need to go through the rest of the process.

Have fun.

Gideon [07/11/12 09:15 +0300]:
>So what, this is just one person's opinion and means nothing, in fact
>focuses only on endorsement issues and not the merit of the .africa
>application.  However DCA's announcement is a significant update, as the
>industry needs to be informed, including you and some people who made
>comments on .dotafrica on this forum. as well as the competition which
>falsely claimed "ICANN says there is only one .africa".
>
>
>
>Good day
>
>
>On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 6:43 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net>wrote:
>
>> Very well put. Thanks for sharing.
>>
>> --srs (htc one x)
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Reply message -----
>> From: "William New" <wnew at ip-watch.ch>
>> To: <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>, "'Suresh Ramasubramanian'" <
>> suresh at hserus.net>, "'Gideon'" <gideonrop at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [governance] Good Bye .DOTAFRICA: ICANN Approves the Change
>> Request Made by DotConnectAfrica Trust for Its .Africa
>> Date: Tue, Nov 6, 2012 7:24 PM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.ip-watch.org/2012/11/03/top-level-domain-africa-becomes-object-of-bitter-fight/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:
>> governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Suresh Ramasubramanian
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 8:34 AM
>> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Gideon
>> Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> Subject: Re: [governance] Good Bye .DOTAFRICA: ICANN Approves the Change
>> Request Made by DotConnectAfrica Trust for Its .Africa
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> so,,,?  does this suddenly award you the .africa TLD or something?
>>
>> --srs (iPad)
>>
>>
>> On 06-Nov-2012, at 12:10, Gideon <gideonrop at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Good Bye .DOTAFRICA:  ICANN Approves the Change Request Made by
>> DotConnectAfrica Trust for Its .Africa
>>
>>
>> http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs123/1102516344150/archive/1111325860695.html
>>
>>
>>
>> Gideon Rop
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>

>____________________________________________________________
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>
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>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
>Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


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From bavouc at gmail.com  Wed Nov  7 03:15:48 2012
From: bavouc at gmail.com (Martial Bavou[Private Business Account])
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 09:15:48 +0100
Subject: [governance] Great speech, Carlos!
In-Reply-To: <509A055C.70401@cgi.br>
References: <CA+YNoKh88f=A0sHBYJNprTQ45BpFTybB9wOV1Q1jXEH8Y-WQMQ@mail.gmail.com> <509A055C.70401@cgi.br>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAANnlFloumCxMuwwBwSZjX53CgAAAEAAAAE69hF87pKRGtEwC0+xZSRkBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>

Great speech, congratulation Carlos. 

-----Original Message-----
From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Hartmut Richard Glaser
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2012 7:53 AM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Izumi AIZU
Cc: Carlos A. Afonso
Subject: Re: [governance] Great speech, Carlos!


Your Excellencies, Mr Wu Hongbo, Under Secretary General, Undesa, Chairman minister Ali Abatov, Secretary Chengetai Masango, in the name of whom I wish to salute all present authorities; ladies and gentlemen:

I have been assigned the honorable task of speaking in the opening ceremony of this IGF in the name of civil society organizations, social movements and individuals active in Internet governance processes, many of them involved in these processes since the inception of WSIS nearly
10 years ago. Several of them collaborated with me in drafting the following statement.

We believe that the absence of gatekeepers and the open, global communication enabled by the Internet is crucial to realize the promise of Article 19 of the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights. To impose restrictions (legal or otherwise) to the free flow of information is and has always been contrary to the individual human right to freedom of expression.

We therefore oppose efforts to create "national Internets," or to block and filter Internet access in ways that deny individuals access to applications, content and services of their choice.

All attempts to deem certain forms of communication and information illegal and restrict or block them must follow established, transparent, due processes of law and should not involve prior restraint.

We oppose efforts to militarize the Internet, or any actions that would foster a destructive and wasteful cyber arms race among governments or private actors. We consider the covert use of exploits and malware for surveillance or attacks to be criminal regardless of whether they are deployed by governments, private corporations or organized criminals.

We are skeptical of efforts to subordinate the design and use of information and communication technology to "national security" agendas. 
We believe that Internet security will be achieved primarily at the operational level and that national security and military agendas often work against rather than for users' security needs.

In the processes of policy formulation, we emphasize the need to prioritize dialogue with policy makers over their subordinated law enforcement agencies.

Global governance institutions should not be restricted to states, so we welcome the additional participation in global policy making that multi-stakeholder processes provide. But we caution that multi-stakeholder participation is not an end in itself.

Opening up global governance institutions to additional voices from civil society and business does not by itself ensure that individual rights are adequately protected or that the best substantive policies are developed and enforced.

In the informal spaces created by pluralist institutions, it is possible that powerful governmental and corporate actors can make deals contrary to the interests of Internet users.

Multistakeholder processes, while involving all interest groups, must incorporate and institutionalize concepts of due process, separation of powers and user's inalienable civil and political rights, and governmental decision-making ought to take into account the inputs of all participants of such pluralist processes.

Let us remind ourselves that participation goes beyond representation, and participation in decision-making goes beyond just debates and dialogues.

Regarding the ITR review process to be concluded in Dubai (and here I use the standard terminology the technical community defines to refer to the different components of the network):

We agree that the internet layer and the layers above it (transport layer and applications layer) should not be included in any way in the regulations, while the free flow of Internet packets should be guaranteed in the link layer, in line with network neutrality in which Internet packets are never touched by the operators providing the physical connectivity infrastructure.

Let the Internet flourish freely to the benefit of those who live at its edges, which are all of us. Thank you.

===



On 07/11/12 04:44, Izumi AIZU wrote:
> Dear Carlos,
>
> I hear many people really liked your speech yesterday, at the opening 
> session. In fact, one of the government reps told me this morning it 
> was THE BEST among all speeches of all guest speakers.
>
> I also was asked to get File version of your speech, Carlos, to be shared.
>
> To confess, I was not able to listen you since I was have some 
> preparatory meeting for Emerging Issues main session, so I also need 
> your speech in print/file. I am sure there are many others like me.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> izumi
>
>
> --
>                       >> Izumi Aizu << Institute for InfoSocionomics, 
> Tama University, Tokyo Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita, Japan 
> www.anr.org
>




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From qshatti at gmail.com  Wed Nov  7 04:12:09 2012
From: qshatti at gmail.com (Qusai AlShatti)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 13:12:09 +0400
Subject: [governance] Invitation to Attend Workshop 170: Developing a
 National/Regional Framework of Principles for Internet Governance
Message-ID: <CAC2SYrMQaUxkijUvRJsq+sMX=hY9txv_2LmURQbBpRp4SHWMpw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear All:
I am organizing the following workshop on day 3. The details are below.
Looking forward for your participation.

Best Regards,

Qusai AlShatti

Workshop 170: Developing a National/Regional Framework of Principles for
Internet Governance, Internet governance Forum 2012, Baku, Azerbaijan

Day 3: November 8, 2012, Workshop Room 8, 11:00 – 12:30

Workshop Description:  The workshop will address the idea of having a
national or a regional framework of principles on Internet Governance as a
mean to address internet issues. The framework can be a flexible approach
suitable to address Internet related issues rather than using regulation
measures and mechanisms. The workshop will focused around the following
questions:

 Is a framework of principles for internet governance is needed on
national/regional levels and how it can plays a role in improving internet
usage to all relevant stakeholders.

 Can the framework of principles for internet governance replaces
regulation on national or regional levels. In what areas related to IG it
can be applied and in what other areas of IG regulation still will be the
most suitable approach.

 What type of process can be adopted to develop the national/regional
framework of principles on Internet Governance. How can we ensure that this
process will be inclusive and multistakeholder. What steps that should be
included in this process.

 In what ways consent on national level and regional level can be reached
to adopt this framework and in what ways or means can it be brought into
effect.

 Are their currently examples of national Internet Governance frameworks
that can be used and followed as a best practice. Are their currently
examples of national Internet Governance frameworks that can be used and
followed as a best practice.

Workshop Speakers:

 Mr. Carlos Alfonso, Insituto NUPEF, Board Member, Brazilian Steering
Committee

 Mr. Paul Rendek, Director of External Relations for RIPE NCC

 Ms. Jane Coffin, Strategy Development, ISOC

 Mrs. Olga Cavali, Director, South School on Internet Governance and
Technical Advisor at Ministry of

Foreign Affairs, Argentina

 Dr. William Drake, International Fellow in the Media Change and
Innovation Division of the Institute

of Mass Communication and Media Research, University of Zurich

 Mr. Qusai AlShatti, Deputy Chairman, Kuwait Information Technology Society
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From jac at apcwomen.org  Wed Nov  7 04:22:06 2012
From: jac at apcwomen.org (Jac sm Kee)
Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2012 17:22:06 +0800
Subject: [governance] Great speech, Carlos!
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAANnlFloumCxMuwwBwSZjX53CgAAAEAAAAE69hF87pKRGtEwC0+xZSRkBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKh88f=A0sHBYJNprTQ45BpFTybB9wOV1Q1jXEH8Y-WQMQ@mail.gmail.com> <509A055C.70401@cgi.br> <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAANnlFloumCxMuwwBwSZjX53CgAAAEAAAAE69hF87pKRGtEwC0+xZSRkBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <509A283E.8090805@apcwomen.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Really great speech. Made me want to stand up and applaud!

Thank you.
j

On 07/11/2012 16:15, Martial Bavou[Private Business Account] wrote:
> Great speech, congratulation Carlos.
> 
> -----Original Message----- From:
> governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
> [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Hartmut
> Richard Glaser Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2012 7:53 AM To:
> governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Izumi AIZU Cc: Carlos A. Afonso 
> Subject: Re: [governance] Great speech, Carlos!
> 
> 
> Your Excellencies, Mr Wu Hongbo, Under Secretary General, Undesa,
> Chairman minister Ali Abatov, Secretary Chengetai Masango, in the
> name of whom I wish to salute all present authorities; ladies and
> gentlemen:
> 
> I have been assigned the honorable task of speaking in the opening
> ceremony of this IGF in the name of civil society organizations,
> social movements and individuals active in Internet governance
> processes, many of them involved in these processes since the
> inception of WSIS nearly 10 years ago. Several of them collaborated
> with me in drafting the following statement.
> 
> We believe that the absence of gatekeepers and the open, global
> communication enabled by the Internet is crucial to realize the
> promise of Article 19 of the UN Universal Declaration of Human
> Rights. To impose restrictions (legal or otherwise) to the free
> flow of information is and has always been contrary to the
> individual human right to freedom of expression.
> 
> We therefore oppose efforts to create "national Internets," or to
> block and filter Internet access in ways that deny individuals
> access to applications, content and services of their choice.
> 
> All attempts to deem certain forms of communication and information
> illegal and restrict or block them must follow established,
> transparent, due processes of law and should not involve prior
> restraint.
> 
> We oppose efforts to militarize the Internet, or any actions that
> would foster a destructive and wasteful cyber arms race among
> governments or private actors. We consider the covert use of
> exploits and malware for surveillance or attacks to be criminal
> regardless of whether they are deployed by governments, private
> corporations or organized criminals.
> 
> We are skeptical of efforts to subordinate the design and use of
> information and communication technology to "national security"
> agendas. We believe that Internet security will be achieved
> primarily at the operational level and that national security and
> military agendas often work against rather than for users' security
> needs.
> 
> In the processes of policy formulation, we emphasize the need to
> prioritize dialogue with policy makers over their subordinated law
> enforcement agencies.
> 
> Global governance institutions should not be restricted to states,
> so we welcome the additional participation in global policy making
> that multi-stakeholder processes provide. But we caution that
> multi-stakeholder participation is not an end in itself.
> 
> Opening up global governance institutions to additional voices from
> civil society and business does not by itself ensure that
> individual rights are adequately protected or that the best
> substantive policies are developed and enforced.
> 
> In the informal spaces created by pluralist institutions, it is
> possible that powerful governmental and corporate actors can make
> deals contrary to the interests of Internet users.
> 
> Multistakeholder processes, while involving all interest groups,
> must incorporate and institutionalize concepts of due process,
> separation of powers and user's inalienable civil and political
> rights, and governmental decision-making ought to take into account
> the inputs of all participants of such pluralist processes.
> 
> Let us remind ourselves that participation goes beyond
> representation, and participation in decision-making goes beyond
> just debates and dialogues.
> 
> Regarding the ITR review process to be concluded in Dubai (and here
> I use the standard terminology the technical community defines to
> refer to the different components of the network):
> 
> We agree that the internet layer and the layers above it (transport
> layer and applications layer) should not be included in any way in
> the regulations, while the free flow of Internet packets should be
> guaranteed in the link layer, in line with network neutrality in
> which Internet packets are never touched by the operators providing
> the physical connectivity infrastructure.
> 
> Let the Internet flourish freely to the benefit of those who live
> at its edges, which are all of us. Thank you.
> 
> ===
> 
> 
> 
> On 07/11/12 04:44, Izumi AIZU wrote:
>> Dear Carlos,
>> 
>> I hear many people really liked your speech yesterday, at the
>> opening session. In fact, one of the government reps told me this
>> morning it was THE BEST among all speeches of all guest
>> speakers.
>> 
>> I also was asked to get File version of your speech, Carlos, to
>> be shared.
>> 
>> To confess, I was not able to listen you since I was have some 
>> preparatory meeting for Emerging Issues main session, so I also
>> need your speech in print/file. I am sure there are many others
>> like me.
>> 
>> Many thanks,
>> 
>> izumi
>> 
>> 
>> --
>>>> Izumi Aizu << Institute for InfoSocionomics,
>> Tama University, Tokyo Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
>> Japan www.anr.org
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

- -- 
Jac sm Kee
Women's Rights Policy Coordinator
Association for Progressive Communications
www.apc.org | erotics.apc.org | www.takebackthetech.net
Skype: jhybeturle | Twitter: jhybe
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From annnyanka at gmail.com  Wed Nov  7 05:17:08 2012
From: annnyanka at gmail.com (Anya Orlova)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 11:17:08 +0100
Subject: [governance] 7th GigaNet Symposium, 5 Nov 2012: registration is
 open
In-Reply-To: <507D88AA.1070202@vub.ac.be>
References: <507D8859.3000306@vub.ac.be> <507D88AA.1070202@vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <CAJ-V6tLjfH8aOF49apSPa6udzYSFNzt4RgnQonxPG_ec9LwYDg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Julia,

it was great to meeting you here at IGF, it really felt the same as in
Meissen!

I just wanted to ask you to forward me those contacts in Humboldt Uni, who
are doing research on digital privacy. We talked about it in the evening at
Google/ISOC party...

Thank you very much,

Anya

Anya Orlova
-------------------------------------------------------
BGSS PhD Candidate
Berlin School of Social Sciences
Humboldt-Universität zu Berlin
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From cveraq at gmail.com  Wed Nov  7 05:40:10 2012
From: cveraq at gmail.com (Carlos Vera Quintana)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 05:40:10 -0500
Subject: [governance] Great speech, Carlos!
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAANnlFloumCxMuwwBwSZjX53CgAAAEAAAAE69hF87pKRGtEwC0+xZSRkBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKh88f=A0sHBYJNprTQ45BpFTybB9wOV1Q1jXEH8Y-WQMQ@mail.gmail.com> <509A055C.70401@cgi.br> <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAANnlFloumCxMuwwBwSZjX53CgAAAEAAAAE69hF87pKRGtEwC0+xZSRkBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <669CE56C-35C0-4CFC-9AF7-521C55BAC429@gmail.com>

+1

Carlos Vera Quintana
593 9 88141143

El 07/11/2012, a las 3:15, "Martial Bavou[Private Business Account]" <bavouc at gmail.com> escribió:

> Great speech, congratulation Carlos. 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Hartmut Richard Glaser
> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2012 7:53 AM
> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Izumi AIZU
> Cc: Carlos A. Afonso
> Subject: Re: [governance] Great speech, Carlos!
> 
> 
> Your Excellencies, Mr Wu Hongbo, Under Secretary General, Undesa, Chairman minister Ali Abatov, Secretary Chengetai Masango, in the name of whom I wish to salute all present authorities; ladies and gentlemen:
> 
> I have been assigned the honorable task of speaking in the opening ceremony of this IGF in the name of civil society organizations, social movements and individuals active in Internet governance processes, many of them involved in these processes since the inception of WSIS nearly
> 10 years ago. Several of them collaborated with me in drafting the following statement.
> 
> We believe that the absence of gatekeepers and the open, global communication enabled by the Internet is crucial to realize the promise of Article 19 of the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights. To impose restrictions (legal or otherwise) to the free flow of information is and has always been contrary to the individual human right to freedom of expression.
> 
> We therefore oppose efforts to create "national Internets," or to block and filter Internet access in ways that deny individuals access to applications, content and services of their choice.
> 
> All attempts to deem certain forms of communication and information illegal and restrict or block them must follow established, transparent, due processes of law and should not involve prior restraint.
> 
> We oppose efforts to militarize the Internet, or any actions that would foster a destructive and wasteful cyber arms race among governments or private actors. We consider the covert use of exploits and malware for surveillance or attacks to be criminal regardless of whether they are deployed by governments, private corporations or organized criminals.
> 
> We are skeptical of efforts to subordinate the design and use of information and communication technology to "national security" agendas. 
> We believe that Internet security will be achieved primarily at the operational level and that national security and military agendas often work against rather than for users' security needs.
> 
> In the processes of policy formulation, we emphasize the need to prioritize dialogue with policy makers over their subordinated law enforcement agencies.
> 
> Global governance institutions should not be restricted to states, so we welcome the additional participation in global policy making that multi-stakeholder processes provide. But we caution that multi-stakeholder participation is not an end in itself.
> 
> Opening up global governance institutions to additional voices from civil society and business does not by itself ensure that individual rights are adequately protected or that the best substantive policies are developed and enforced.
> 
> In the informal spaces created by pluralist institutions, it is possible that powerful governmental and corporate actors can make deals contrary to the interests of Internet users.
> 
> Multistakeholder processes, while involving all interest groups, must incorporate and institutionalize concepts of due process, separation of powers and user's inalienable civil and political rights, and governmental decision-making ought to take into account the inputs of all participants of such pluralist processes.
> 
> Let us remind ourselves that participation goes beyond representation, and participation in decision-making goes beyond just debates and dialogues.
> 
> Regarding the ITR review process to be concluded in Dubai (and here I use the standard terminology the technical community defines to refer to the different components of the network):
> 
> We agree that the internet layer and the layers above it (transport layer and applications layer) should not be included in any way in the regulations, while the free flow of Internet packets should be guaranteed in the link layer, in line with network neutrality in which Internet packets are never touched by the operators providing the physical connectivity infrastructure.
> 
> Let the Internet flourish freely to the benefit of those who live at its edges, which are all of us. Thank you.
> 
> ===
> 
> 
> 
> On 07/11/12 04:44, Izumi AIZU wrote:
>> Dear Carlos,
>> 
>> I hear many people really liked your speech yesterday, at the opening 
>> session. In fact, one of the government reps told me this morning it 
>> was THE BEST among all speeches of all guest speakers.
>> 
>> I also was asked to get File version of your speech, Carlos, to be shared.
>> 
>> To confess, I was not able to listen you since I was have some 
>> preparatory meeting for Emerging Issues main session, so I also need 
>> your speech in print/file. I am sure there are many others like me.
>> 
>> Many thanks,
>> 
>> izumi
>> 
>> 
>> --
>>>> Izumi Aizu << Institute for InfoSocionomics, 
>> Tama University, Tokyo Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita, Japan 
>> www.anr.org
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

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From valeriab at apc.org  Wed Nov  7 06:18:54 2012
From: valeriab at apc.org (Valeria Betancourt)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 06:18:54 -0500
Subject: [governance] Great speech, Carlos!
In-Reply-To: <509A283E.8090805@apcwomen.org>
References: <CA+YNoKh88f=A0sHBYJNprTQ45BpFTybB9wOV1Q1jXEH8Y-WQMQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<509A055C.70401@cgi.br>
	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAANnlFloumCxMuwwBwSZjX53CgAAAEAAAAE69hF87pKRGtEwC0+xZSRkBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>
	<509A283E.8090805@apcwomen.org>
Message-ID: <CAP=HyHiqWizaTQra2tSBnKjApjMco9T3bFgnbEzecgJ0K_V6fg@mail.gmail.com>

+1

Valeria

2012/11/7 Jac sm Kee <jac at apcwomen.org>

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Really great speech. Made me want to stand up and applaud!
>
> Thank you.
> j
>
> On 07/11/2012 16:15, Martial Bavou[Private Business Account] wrote:
> > Great speech, congratulation Carlos.
> >
> > -----Original Message----- From:
> > governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
> > [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Hartmut
> > Richard Glaser Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2012 7:53 AM To:
> > governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Izumi AIZU Cc: Carlos A. Afonso
> > Subject: Re: [governance] Great speech, Carlos!
> >
> >
> > Your Excellencies, Mr Wu Hongbo, Under Secretary General, Undesa,
> > Chairman minister Ali Abatov, Secretary Chengetai Masango, in the
> > name of whom I wish to salute all present authorities; ladies and
> > gentlemen:
> >
> > I have been assigned the honorable task of speaking in the opening
> > ceremony of this IGF in the name of civil society organizations,
> > social movements and individuals active in Internet governance
> > processes, many of them involved in these processes since the
> > inception of WSIS nearly 10 years ago. Several of them collaborated
> > with me in drafting the following statement.
> >
> > We believe that the absence of gatekeepers and the open, global
> > communication enabled by the Internet is crucial to realize the
> > promise of Article 19 of the UN Universal Declaration of Human
> > Rights. To impose restrictions (legal or otherwise) to the free
> > flow of information is and has always been contrary to the
> > individual human right to freedom of expression.
> >
> > We therefore oppose efforts to create "national Internets," or to
> > block and filter Internet access in ways that deny individuals
> > access to applications, content and services of their choice.
> >
> > All attempts to deem certain forms of communication and information
> > illegal and restrict or block them must follow established,
> > transparent, due processes of law and should not involve prior
> > restraint.
> >
> > We oppose efforts to militarize the Internet, or any actions that
> > would foster a destructive and wasteful cyber arms race among
> > governments or private actors. We consider the covert use of
> > exploits and malware for surveillance or attacks to be criminal
> > regardless of whether they are deployed by governments, private
> > corporations or organized criminals.
> >
> > We are skeptical of efforts to subordinate the design and use of
> > information and communication technology to "national security"
> > agendas. We believe that Internet security will be achieved
> > primarily at the operational level and that national security and
> > military agendas often work against rather than for users' security
> > needs.
> >
> > In the processes of policy formulation, we emphasize the need to
> > prioritize dialogue with policy makers over their subordinated law
> > enforcement agencies.
> >
> > Global governance institutions should not be restricted to states,
> > so we welcome the additional participation in global policy making
> > that multi-stakeholder processes provide. But we caution that
> > multi-stakeholder participation is not an end in itself.
> >
> > Opening up global governance institutions to additional voices from
> > civil society and business does not by itself ensure that
> > individual rights are adequately protected or that the best
> > substantive policies are developed and enforced.
> >
> > In the informal spaces created by pluralist institutions, it is
> > possible that powerful governmental and corporate actors can make
> > deals contrary to the interests of Internet users.
> >
> > Multistakeholder processes, while involving all interest groups,
> > must incorporate and institutionalize concepts of due process,
> > separation of powers and user's inalienable civil and political
> > rights, and governmental decision-making ought to take into account
> > the inputs of all participants of such pluralist processes.
> >
> > Let us remind ourselves that participation goes beyond
> > representation, and participation in decision-making goes beyond
> > just debates and dialogues.
> >
> > Regarding the ITR review process to be concluded in Dubai (and here
> > I use the standard terminology the technical community defines to
> > refer to the different components of the network):
> >
> > We agree that the internet layer and the layers above it (transport
> > layer and applications layer) should not be included in any way in
> > the regulations, while the free flow of Internet packets should be
> > guaranteed in the link layer, in line with network neutrality in
> > which Internet packets are never touched by the operators providing
> > the physical connectivity infrastructure.
> >
> > Let the Internet flourish freely to the benefit of those who live
> > at its edges, which are all of us. Thank you.
> >
> > ===
> >
> >
> >
> > On 07/11/12 04:44, Izumi AIZU wrote:
> >> Dear Carlos,
> >>
> >> I hear many people really liked your speech yesterday, at the
> >> opening session. In fact, one of the government reps told me this
> >> morning it was THE BEST among all speeches of all guest
> >> speakers.
> >>
> >> I also was asked to get File version of your speech, Carlos, to
> >> be shared.
> >>
> >> To confess, I was not able to listen you since I was have some
> >> preparatory meeting for Emerging Issues main session, so I also
> >> need your speech in print/file. I am sure there are many others
> >> like me.
> >>
> >> Many thanks,
> >>
> >> izumi
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>>> Izumi Aizu << Institute for InfoSocionomics,
> >> Tama University, Tokyo Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
> >> Japan www.anr.org
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> - --
> Jac sm Kee
> Women's Rights Policy Coordinator
> Association for Progressive Communications
> www.apc.org | erotics.apc.org | www.takebackthetech.net
> Skype: jhybeturle | Twitter: jhybe
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/
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>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
Valeria Betancourt
Directora / Manager
Programa de Políticas de Information y Comunicación / Communication and
Information
Policy Programme
Asociación para el Progreso de las Comunicaciones / Association for
Progressive Communications, APC
http://www.apc.org
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From amedinagomez at gmail.com  Wed Nov  7 06:56:02 2012
From: amedinagomez at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Antonio_Medina_G=F3mez?=)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 06:56:02 -0500
Subject: [governance] Great speech, Carlos!
In-Reply-To: <CAP=HyHiqWizaTQra2tSBnKjApjMco9T3bFgnbEzecgJ0K_V6fg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKh88f=A0sHBYJNprTQ45BpFTybB9wOV1Q1jXEH8Y-WQMQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<509A055C.70401@cgi.br>
	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAANnlFloumCxMuwwBwSZjX53CgAAAEAAAAE69hF87pKRGtEwC0+xZSRkBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>
	<509A283E.8090805@apcwomen.org>
	<CAP=HyHiqWizaTQra2tSBnKjApjMco9T3bFgnbEzecgJ0K_V6fg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAM-_sgjjThm63XeNh38N1YfZKe3HGX3AdQ43e=TO827LF1jt8g@mail.gmail.com>

+1 congratulations!!!


2012/11/7 Valeria Betancourt <valeriab at apc.org>

> +1
>
> Valeria
>
> 2012/11/7 Jac sm Kee <jac at apcwomen.org>
>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> Really great speech. Made me want to stand up and applaud!
>>
>> Thank you.
>> j
>>
>> On 07/11/2012 16:15, Martial Bavou[Private Business Account] wrote:
>> > Great speech, congratulation Carlos.
>> >
>> > -----Original Message----- From:
>> > governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
>> > [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Hartmut
>> > Richard Glaser Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2012 7:53 AM To:
>> > governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Izumi AIZU Cc: Carlos A. Afonso
>> > Subject: Re: [governance] Great speech, Carlos!
>> >
>> >
>> > Your Excellencies, Mr Wu Hongbo, Under Secretary General, Undesa,
>> > Chairman minister Ali Abatov, Secretary Chengetai Masango, in the
>> > name of whom I wish to salute all present authorities; ladies and
>> > gentlemen:
>> >
>> > I have been assigned the honorable task of speaking in the opening
>> > ceremony of this IGF in the name of civil society organizations,
>> > social movements and individuals active in Internet governance
>> > processes, many of them involved in these processes since the
>> > inception of WSIS nearly 10 years ago. Several of them collaborated
>> > with me in drafting the following statement.
>> >
>> > We believe that the absence of gatekeepers and the open, global
>> > communication enabled by the Internet is crucial to realize the
>> > promise of Article 19 of the UN Universal Declaration of Human
>> > Rights. To impose restrictions (legal or otherwise) to the free
>> > flow of information is and has always been contrary to the
>> > individual human right to freedom of expression.
>> >
>> > We therefore oppose efforts to create "national Internets," or to
>> > block and filter Internet access in ways that deny individuals
>> > access to applications, content and services of their choice.
>> >
>> > All attempts to deem certain forms of communication and information
>> > illegal and restrict or block them must follow established,
>> > transparent, due processes of law and should not involve prior
>> > restraint.
>> >
>> > We oppose efforts to militarize the Internet, or any actions that
>> > would foster a destructive and wasteful cyber arms race among
>> > governments or private actors. We consider the covert use of
>> > exploits and malware for surveillance or attacks to be criminal
>> > regardless of whether they are deployed by governments, private
>> > corporations or organized criminals.
>> >
>> > We are skeptical of efforts to subordinate the design and use of
>> > information and communication technology to "national security"
>> > agendas. We believe that Internet security will be achieved
>> > primarily at the operational level and that national security and
>> > military agendas often work against rather than for users' security
>> > needs.
>> >
>> > In the processes of policy formulation, we emphasize the need to
>> > prioritize dialogue with policy makers over their subordinated law
>> > enforcement agencies.
>> >
>> > Global governance institutions should not be restricted to states,
>> > so we welcome the additional participation in global policy making
>> > that multi-stakeholder processes provide. But we caution that
>> > multi-stakeholder participation is not an end in itself.
>> >
>> > Opening up global governance institutions to additional voices from
>> > civil society and business does not by itself ensure that
>> > individual rights are adequately protected or that the best
>> > substantive policies are developed and enforced.
>> >
>> > In the informal spaces created by pluralist institutions, it is
>> > possible that powerful governmental and corporate actors can make
>> > deals contrary to the interests of Internet users.
>> >
>> > Multistakeholder processes, while involving all interest groups,
>> > must incorporate and institutionalize concepts of due process,
>> > separation of powers and user's inalienable civil and political
>> > rights, and governmental decision-making ought to take into account
>> > the inputs of all participants of such pluralist processes.
>> >
>> > Let us remind ourselves that participation goes beyond
>> > representation, and participation in decision-making goes beyond
>> > just debates and dialogues.
>> >
>> > Regarding the ITR review process to be concluded in Dubai (and here
>> > I use the standard terminology the technical community defines to
>> > refer to the different components of the network):
>> >
>> > We agree that the internet layer and the layers above it (transport
>> > layer and applications layer) should not be included in any way in
>> > the regulations, while the free flow of Internet packets should be
>> > guaranteed in the link layer, in line with network neutrality in
>> > which Internet packets are never touched by the operators providing
>> > the physical connectivity infrastructure.
>> >
>> > Let the Internet flourish freely to the benefit of those who live
>> > at its edges, which are all of us. Thank you.
>> >
>> > ===
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 07/11/12 04:44, Izumi AIZU wrote:
>> >> Dear Carlos,
>> >>
>> >> I hear many people really liked your speech yesterday, at the
>> >> opening session. In fact, one of the government reps told me this
>> >> morning it was THE BEST among all speeches of all guest
>> >> speakers.
>> >>
>> >> I also was asked to get File version of your speech, Carlos, to
>> >> be shared.
>> >>
>> >> To confess, I was not able to listen you since I was have some
>> >> preparatory meeting for Emerging Issues main session, so I also
>> >> need your speech in print/file. I am sure there are many others
>> >> like me.
>> >>
>> >> Many thanks,
>> >>
>> >> izumi
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >>>> Izumi Aizu << Institute for InfoSocionomics,
>> >> Tama University, Tokyo Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
>> >> Japan www.anr.org
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> - --
>> Jac sm Kee
>> Women's Rights Policy Coordinator
>> Association for Progressive Communications
>> www.apc.org | erotics.apc.org | www.takebackthetech.net
>> Skype: jhybeturle | Twitter: jhybe
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.14 (Darwin)
>> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/
>>
>> iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJQmig+AAoJEKpQzmPAS5FmbT8H/AsluWHDo1lBog6BbcCJvUhm
>> hGEJJLsYgsDLRph5Lqf1z0Bf+PYFn8rhby6o3qoKNbGZoKQ9lZONrKJ2ZkK35HAJ
>> 3BpWTW39vDySMVX8tVLd+sHQXRN9wiDLyqk4NX0tFIRzcMOpHFxsKq9oF3DQRb5h
>> OT9lticc53JKbDFak/y+3KLOvCjJjIqGoB3XKrn3x43Px6TjXUJSVNbO+zoHRsSg
>> aXCQ4sjYJaYX6d11DAVxZisL1mZca4eQab7LD5FTidk7qyCJVPqkHu4jS1wGC8aG
>> y+kX2M0u6f6hxEHeKJtLP4iY36u8eND6DobcHvLzNHd4KFoUnfe+NIzGUk1dk6Q=
>> =GFuf
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
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>
> --
> Valeria Betancourt
> Directora / Manager
> Programa de Políticas de Information y Comunicación / Communication and
> Information
> Policy Programme
> Asociación para el Progreso de las Comunicaciones / Association for
> Progressive Communications, APC
> http://www.apc.org
>
> ____________________________________________________________
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From gideonrop at gmail.com  Wed Nov  7 13:07:50 2012
From: gideonrop at gmail.com (Gideon)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 21:07:50 +0300
Subject: [governance] Good Bye .DOTAFRICA: ICANN Approves the Change
 Request Made by DotConnectAfrica Trust for Its .Africa
In-Reply-To: <20121107081316.GA28721@hserus.net>
References: <E1TVlJ2-0004V3-5L@frodo.hserus.net> <CAP2ohHE5UDxtXWqud4MR7yvUSUymsZ4vBdEe_HqFXAs=JvsAvw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20121107081316.GA28721@hserus.net>
Message-ID: <CAP2ohHGK7LYNO82=y6T9RAnxPSVtPg6_3VD3-auRS7_Om-5ONQ@mail.gmail.com>

Our endorsement is compliant with ICANN requirements and no letter has been
written for DCA explicitly withdrawing AU support.  We are also confident
that we are in compliance with the rest of ICANN process, unlike our
competition!

Gideon Rop.


On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian
<suresh at hserus.net>wrote:

> Let us see, let us see. You still need an AU endorsement and 60% of the
> countries in africa, not a letter of support which has been explicitly
> withdrawn. And then you still need to go through the rest of the process.
>
> Have fun.
>
> Gideon [07/11/12 09:15 +0300]:
>
>  So what, this is just one person's opinion and means nothing, in fact
>> focuses only on endorsement issues and not the merit of the .africa
>> application.  However DCA's announcement is a significant update, as the
>> industry needs to be informed, including you and some people who made
>> comments on .dotafrica on this forum. as well as the competition which
>> falsely claimed "ICANN says there is only one .africa".
>>
>>
>>
>> Good day
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 6:43 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net
>> >wrote:
>>
>>  Very well put. Thanks for sharing.
>>>
>>> --srs (htc one x)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Reply message -----
>>> From: "William New" <wnew at ip-watch.ch>
>>> To: <governance at lists.igcaucus.org**>, "'Suresh Ramasubramanian'" <
>>> suresh at hserus.net>, "'Gideon'" <gideonrop at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: [governance] Good Bye .DOTAFRICA: ICANN Approves the Change
>>> Request Made by DotConnectAfrica Trust for Its .Africa
>>> Date: Tue, Nov 6, 2012 7:24 PM
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.ip-watch.org/2012/**11/03/top-level-domain-africa-**
>>> becomes-object-of-bitter-**fight/<http://www.ip-watch.org/2012/11/03/top-level-domain-africa-becomes-object-of-bitter-fight/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: governance-request at lists.**igcaucus.org<governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org>[mailto:
>>> governance-request at lists.**igcaucus.org<governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org>]
>>> On Behalf Of Suresh Ramasubramanian
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 8:34 AM
>>> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Gideon
>>> Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> Subject: Re: [governance] Good Bye .DOTAFRICA: ICANN Approves the Change
>>> Request Made by DotConnectAfrica Trust for Its .Africa
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> so,,,?  does this suddenly award you the .africa TLD or something?
>>>
>>> --srs (iPad)
>>>
>>>
>>> On 06-Nov-2012, at 12:10, Gideon <gideonrop at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Good Bye .DOTAFRICA:  ICANN Approves the Change Request Made by
>>> DotConnectAfrica Trust for Its .Africa
>>>
>>>
>>> http://archive.**constantcontact.com/fs123/**1102516344150/archive/**
>>> 1111325860695.html<http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs123/1102516344150/archive/1111325860695.html>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gideon Rop
>>>
>>> ______________________________**______________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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>>>
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>>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/**translate_t<http://translate.google.com/translate_t>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>  ______________________________**______________________________
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From dogwallah at gmail.com  Wed Nov  7 13:37:26 2012
From: dogwallah at gmail.com (McTim)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 13:37:26 -0500
Subject: [governance] Good Bye .DOTAFRICA: ICANN Approves the Change
 Request Made by DotConnectAfrica Trust for Its .Africa
In-Reply-To: <CAP2ohHGK7LYNO82=y6T9RAnxPSVtPg6_3VD3-auRS7_Om-5ONQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E1TVlJ2-0004V3-5L@frodo.hserus.net> <CAP2ohHE5UDxtXWqud4MR7yvUSUymsZ4vBdEe_HqFXAs=JvsAvw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20121107081316.GA28721@hserus.net> <CAP2ohHGK7LYNO82=y6T9RAnxPSVtPg6_3VD3-auRS7_Om-5ONQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACAaNxgzV9raFL_q=H5WMM_cwpQcw30VydD8R3JSmvzzpjyvJw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 1:07 PM, Gideon <gideonrop at gmail.com> wrote:
> Our endorsement is compliant with ICANN requirements and no letter has been
> written for DCA explicitly withdrawing AU support.

so how do you explain this one:

http://library.constantcontact.com/download/get/file/1102516344150-107/Communique_Statement_by_AUC_on_Dot_Africa_May_10th__AO+MY_+BK_Comments%5b1%5d.pdf

????



-- 
Cheers,

McTim
"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A
route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel

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From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com  Wed Nov  7 13:46:51 2012
From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 20:46:51 +0200
Subject: [governance] Good Bye .DOTAFRICA: ICANN Approves the Change
 Request Made by DotConnectAfrica Trust for Its .Africa
In-Reply-To: <CACAaNxgzV9raFL_q=H5WMM_cwpQcw30VydD8R3JSmvzzpjyvJw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E1TVlJ2-0004V3-5L@frodo.hserus.net>
	<CAP2ohHE5UDxtXWqud4MR7yvUSUymsZ4vBdEe_HqFXAs=JvsAvw@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121107081316.GA28721@hserus.net>
	<CAP2ohHGK7LYNO82=y6T9RAnxPSVtPg6_3VD3-auRS7_Om-5ONQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACAaNxgzV9raFL_q=H5WMM_cwpQcw30VydD8R3JSmvzzpjyvJw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABBOhxqd2s50aCAYGkiL8p1E9bdzW5MRaSKACVktssDq_3RxGg@mail.gmail.com>

It seems that .Africa is destined to fireworks. I wonder where does "the
public interest" stand at.

Fahd
 On Nov 7, 2012 9:38 PM, "McTim" <dogwallah at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 1:07 PM, Gideon <gideonrop at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Our endorsement is compliant with ICANN requirements and no letter has
> been
> > written for DCA explicitly withdrawing AU support.
>
> so how do you explain this one:
>
>
> http://library.constantcontact.com/download/get/file/1102516344150-107/Communique_Statement_by_AUC_on_Dot_Africa_May_10th__AO+MY_+BK_Comments%5b1%5d.pdf
>
> ????
>
>
>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> McTim
> "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A
> route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
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>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
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From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com  Wed Nov  7 14:53:32 2012
From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 21:53:32 +0200
Subject: [governance] Megaupload Sequel Faces Gabon's Suspension Order
 Setback
Message-ID: <CABBOhxojnPVu=q9jzbh-qwYRVpAnmGq1Y4+MUAhokpox2fztHg@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20236107

An interesting twist in the * sequel *.

Fahd
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From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com  Wed Nov  7 14:56:13 2012
From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 21:56:13 +0200
Subject: [governance] Barack Obama Victory Tweet Most Retweeted Ever
Message-ID: <CABBOhxoThzJ1KtVpOxKuoQUSv9pq5Gy4dcrb8AsSJhAahm=erw@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20237531

The words "four more years", coupled with a photo of Barack and Michelle
Obama embraced in a hug, have become the most retweeted Twitter post ever.

Fahd
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From julian at colnodo.apc.org  Wed Nov  7 16:27:33 2012
From: julian at colnodo.apc.org (Julian Casasbuenas G.)
Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2012 16:27:33 -0500
Subject: [governance] Great speech, Carlos!
In-Reply-To: <509A055C.70401@cgi.br>
References: <CA+YNoKh88f=A0sHBYJNprTQ45BpFTybB9wOV1Q1jXEH8Y-WQMQ@mail.gmail.com> <509A055C.70401@cgi.br>
Message-ID: <509AD245.3010206@colnodo.apc.org>


Thank you Carlos and all of you for making such a good statement,

Best,

Julián

El 07/11/12 01:53, Hartmut Richard Glaser escribió:
>
> Your Excellencies, Mr Wu Hongbo, Under Secretary General, Undesa,
> Chairman minister Ali Abatov, Secretary Chengetai Masango, in the name
> of whom I wish to salute all present authorities; ladies and gentlemen:
>
> I have been assigned the honorable task of speaking in the opening
> ceremony of this IGF in the name of civil society organizations,
> social movements and individuals active in Internet governance
> processes, many of them involved in these processes since the
> inception of WSIS nearly 10 years ago. Several of them collaborated
> with me in drafting the following statement.
>
> We believe that the absence of gatekeepers and the open, global
> communication enabled by the Internet is crucial to realize the
> promise of Article 19 of the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
> To impose restrictions (legal or otherwise) to the free flow of
> information is and has always been contrary to the individual human
> right to freedom of expression.
>
> We therefore oppose efforts to create "national Internets," or to
> block and filter Internet access in ways that deny individuals access
> to applications, content and services of their choice.
>
> All attempts to deem certain forms of communication and information
> illegal and restrict or block them must follow established,
> transparent, due processes of law and should not involve prior restraint.
>
> We oppose efforts to militarize the Internet, or any actions that
> would foster a destructive and wasteful cyber arms race among
> governments or private actors. We consider the covert use of exploits
> and malware for surveillance or attacks to be criminal regardless of
> whether they are deployed by governments, private corporations or
> organized criminals.
>
> We are skeptical of efforts to subordinate the design and use of
> information and communication technology to "national security"
> agendas. We believe that Internet security will be achieved primarily
> at the operational level and that national security and military
> agendas often work against rather than for users' security needs.
>
> In the processes of policy formulation, we emphasize the need to
> prioritize dialogue with policy makers over their subordinated law
> enforcement agencies.
>
> Global governance institutions should not be restricted to states, so
> we welcome the additional participation in global policy making that
> multi-stakeholder processes provide. But we caution that
> multi-stakeholder participation is not an end in itself.
>
> Opening up global governance institutions to additional voices from
> civil society and business does not by itself ensure that individual
> rights are adequately protected or that the best substantive policies
> are developed and enforced.
>
> In the informal spaces created by pluralist institutions, it is
> possible that powerful governmental and corporate actors can make
> deals contrary to the interests of Internet users.
>
> Multistakeholder processes, while involving all interest groups, must
> incorporate and institutionalize concepts of due process, separation
> of powers and user's inalienable civil and political rights, and
> governmental decision-making ought to take into account the inputs of
> all participants of such pluralist processes.
>
> Let us remind ourselves that participation goes beyond representation,
> and participation in decision-making goes beyond just debates and
> dialogues.
>
> Regarding the ITR review process to be concluded in Dubai (and here I
> use the standard terminology the technical community defines to refer
> to the different components of the network):
>
> We agree that the internet layer and the layers above it (transport
> layer and applications layer) should not be included in any way in the
> regulations, while the free flow of Internet packets should be
> guaranteed in the link layer, in line with network neutrality in which
> Internet packets are never touched by the operators providing the
> physical connectivity infrastructure.
>
> Let the Internet flourish freely to the benefit of those who live at
> its edges, which are all of us. Thank you.
>
> ===
>
>
>
> On 07/11/12 04:44, Izumi AIZU wrote:
>> Dear Carlos,
>>
>> I hear many people really liked your speech yesterday, at the opening
>> session. In fact, one of the government reps told me this morning it
>> was THE BEST among all speeches of all guest speakers.
>>
>> I also was asked to get File version of your speech, Carlos, to be
>> shared.
>>
>> To confess, I was not able to listen you since I was have some
>> preparatory meeting for Emerging Issues main session, so I also need
>> your speech in print/file. I am sure there are many others like me.
>>
>> Many thanks,
>>
>> izumi
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>                       >> Izumi Aizu <<
>> Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
>> Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
>> Japan
>> www.anr.org
>>
>
>

-- 

Julian Casasbuenas G.
Director Colnodo
Diagonal 40A (Antigua Av. 39) No. 14-75, Bogota, Colombia
Tel: 57-1-2324246, Cel. 57-315-3339099 Fax: 57-1-3380264
Twitter @jcasasbuenas
www.colnodo.apc.org - Uso Estratégico de Internet para el Desarrollo
Miembro de la Asociacion para el Progreso de las Comunicaciones -APC-
www.apc.org


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From suresh at hserus.net  Wed Nov  7 17:41:55 2012
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 04:11:55 +0530
Subject: [governance] Barack Obama Victory Tweet Most Retweeted Ever
In-Reply-To: <CABBOhxoThzJ1KtVpOxKuoQUSv9pq5Gy4dcrb8AsSJhAahm=erw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABBOhxoThzJ1KtVpOxKuoQUSv9pq5Gy4dcrb8AsSJhAahm=erw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8BB9DF1C-7A09-4C12-A790-35A8F3A7E801@hserus.net>

May I ask your opinion on how or why a photo of a couple hugging is anyway remotely related to igov?

--srs (iPad)

On 08-Nov-2012, at 1:26, "Fahd A. Batayneh" <fahd.batayneh at gmail.com> wrote:

> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20237531
> 
> The words "four more years", coupled with a photo of Barack and Michelle Obama embraced in a hug, have become the most retweeted Twitter post ever.
> 
> Fahd
> ____________________________________________________________
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From suresh at hserus.net  Wed Nov  7 17:46:22 2012
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 04:16:22 +0530
Subject: [governance] Good Bye .DOTAFRICA: ICANN Approves the Change
 Request Made by DotConnectAfrica Trust for Its .Africa
In-Reply-To: <CABBOhxqd2s50aCAYGkiL8p1E9bdzW5MRaSKACVktssDq_3RxGg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E1TVlJ2-0004V3-5L@frodo.hserus.net> <CAP2ohHE5UDxtXWqud4MR7yvUSUymsZ4vBdEe_HqFXAs=JvsAvw@mail.gmail.com> <20121107081316.GA28721@hserus.net> <CAP2ohHGK7LYNO82=y6T9RAnxPSVtPg6_3VD3-auRS7_Om-5ONQ@mail.gmail.com> <CACAaNxgzV9raFL_q=H5WMM_cwpQcw30VydD8R3JSmvzzpjyvJw@mail.gmail.com> <CABBOhxqd2s50aCAYGkiL8p1E9bdzW5MRaSKACVktssDq_3RxGg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DFB7B46F-CB3F-4B56-B047-A62DE8E1E873@hserus.net>

Nowhere in particular. So far it is a petty commercial dispute.   Even the TLD by itself has little or no relevance in the larger scheme of things, any more than say .museum has for museums the world over, or its geographic predecessor .asia has had for Asia (moderately, but not too popular)

--srs (iPad)

On 08-Nov-2012, at 0:16, "Fahd A. Batayneh" <fahd.batayneh at gmail.com> wrote:

> It seems that .Africa is destined to fireworks. I wonder where does "the public interest" stand at.
> 
> Fahd
> On Nov 7, 2012 9:38 PM, "McTim" <dogwallah at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 1:07 PM, Gideon <gideonrop at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Our endorsement is compliant with ICANN requirements and no letter has been
>> > written for DCA explicitly withdrawing AU support.
>> 
>> so how do you explain this one:
>> 
>> http://library.constantcontact.com/download/get/file/1102516344150-107/Communique_Statement_by_AUC_on_Dot_Africa_May_10th__AO+MY_+BK_Comments%5b1%5d.pdf
>> 
>> ????
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> McTim
>> "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A
>> route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel
>> 
>> 
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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From ivarhartmann at gmail.com  Wed Nov  7 17:56:29 2012
From: ivarhartmann at gmail.com (Ivar A. M. Hartmann)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 20:56:29 -0200
Subject: [governance] Barack Obama Victory Tweet Most Retweeted Ever
In-Reply-To: <8BB9DF1C-7A09-4C12-A790-35A8F3A7E801@hserus.net>
References: <CABBOhxoThzJ1KtVpOxKuoQUSv9pq5Gy4dcrb8AsSJhAahm=erw@mail.gmail.com>
 <8BB9DF1C-7A09-4C12-A790-35A8F3A7E801@hserus.net>
Message-ID: <CA+=oXB+a-2t_VJW_+pyM25bZt=SfU5Bq9yhAs5Mk=mAcWwLOsw@mail.gmail.com>

I believe major happenings in the field of social networks are of interest
to IG.
In this case, it's more strong evidence of the use of social networks for
political speech. This relates to cyberdemocracy theories and concerns
stakeholders involved in regulating free speech online as political speech
is deemed in almost all democracies to be the type of speech that calls for
the stronger protection.
Just my opinion.
Best,
Ivar


On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 8:41 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net>wrote:

> May I ask your opinion on how or why a photo of a couple hugging is anyway
> remotely related to igov?
>
> --srs (iPad)
>
> On 08-Nov-2012, at 1:26, "Fahd A. Batayneh" <fahd.batayneh at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20237531
>
> The words "four more years", coupled with a photo of Barack and Michelle
> Obama embraced in a hug, have become the most retweeted Twitter post ever.
>
> Fahd
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
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From suresh at hserus.net  Wed Nov  7 18:09:49 2012
From: suresh at hserus.net (=?utf-8?B?U3VyZXNoIFJhbWFzdWJyYW1hbmlhbg==?=)
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2012 04:39:49 +0530
Subject: [governance] Barack Obama Victory Tweet Most Retweeted Ever
Message-ID: <E1TWEkm-00033j-GH@frodo.hserus.net>

Well you see, without some commentary about it in this context from the original poster, it is practically impossible to tell the difference between that and idle forwarding of random news articles.

--srs (htc one x)


----- Reply message -----
From: "Ivar A. M. Hartmann" <ivarhartmann at gmail.com>
To: "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>, "Suresh Ramasubramanian" <suresh at hserus.net>
Cc: "Fahd A. Batayneh" <fahd.batayneh at gmail.com>
Subject: [governance] Barack Obama Victory Tweet Most Retweeted Ever
Date: Thu, Nov 8, 2012 4:26 AM


I believe major happenings in the field of social networks are of interest
to IG.
In this case, it's more strong evidence of the use of social networks for
political speech. This relates to cyberdemocracy theories and concerns
stakeholders involved in regulating free speech online as political speech
is deemed in almost all democracies to be the type of speech that calls for
the stronger protection.
Just my opinion.
Best,
Ivar


On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 8:41 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net>wrote:

> May I ask your opinion on how or why a photo of a couple hugging is anyway
> remotely related to igov?
>
> --srs (iPad)
>
> On 08-Nov-2012, at 1:26, "Fahd A. Batayneh" <fahd.batayneh at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20237531
>
> The words "four more years", coupled with a photo of Barack and Michelle
> Obama embraced in a hug, have become the most retweeted Twitter post ever.
>
> Fahd
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
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From ocl at gih.com  Wed Nov  7 22:29:20 2012
From: ocl at gih.com (Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond)
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2012 07:29:20 +0400
Subject: [governance] IGF2012, Remote Connection
In-Reply-To: <CALrvCLCfdLa1E15T7mGHRM0wDvQS2PSGf_7+jPTphzq8+C-Ggg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAANnlFloumCxMuwwBwSZjX53CgAAAEAAAAHf5BZiUjixMlLGpIsdOWgQBAAAAAA==@gmail.com> <CALrvCLBFn9nYJrRqA193AThPN3xc6CH9SK2D7HTjvARp_pwncg@mail.gmail.com> <1352228143.46381.YahooMailNeo@web160505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1352229400.49284.YahooMailNeo@web160502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <CALrvCLCfdLa1E15T7mGHRM0wDvQS2PSGf_7+jPTphzq8+C-Ggg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <509B2710.1030203@gih.com>

I suppose rp has probably been flooded with enquiries.
Since the beginning of the week, I saw Bernard run around trying to fix
things.
The remote participation computers running Webex are all wired in and
appear to work well but the network sometimes goes through some periods
of being very slow. This is when the WIFI works and guess what, the WIFI
does not work well at all. In fact, I have spent complete afternoons
without WIFI. (not enough IPv4 addresses to allocate -- and no IPv6
connectivity at all in case you ask)

Whilst so far, I have been super impressed with the host country, this
is, in my opinion, the poorest Internet connectivity we've had at the
venue in recent IGFs. <sigh>

Kind regards,

Olivier

On 07/11/2012 00:04, Norbert Bollow wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 8:16 PM, shaila mistry <shailam at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Hi everyone
>> I too have tried several times to participate. Each time I am sent a
>> different route of downloads and logins , finally leading to a dead end.
>> Please advise what can be done ?
>> Shaila Rao Mistry
> Have you tried contacting
>
> "Remote Participation general help" <rp at intgovforum.org>
>
> ?
>
> Do they respond?
>
> If yes, what are they saying?
>
> If no, let us know, so that we can push locally for those help email
> addresses to be handled in a meaningful way.
>
> In the long run, what we need is funding to put a competent person in
> charge of ensuring in an ongoing manner (year after year) that IGF
> remote participation is made available in a way that can be expected
> to work (which presupposes learning from what went wrong in earlier
> years, and it presupposes serious testing well before the first day of
> the IGF). It is simply unacceptable for an entirely new technical team
> to put in charge of remote participation every year, and the remote
> participation infrastructure again and again being so absurdly
> unreliable.)
>
> Greetings,
> Norbert
>

-- 
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD
http://www.gih.com/ocl.html


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From williams.deirdre at gmail.com  Wed Nov  7 23:38:07 2012
From: williams.deirdre at gmail.com (Deirdre Williams)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 00:38:07 -0400
Subject: [governance] IGF2012, Remote Connection
In-Reply-To: <CALrvCLBFn9nYJrRqA193AThPN3xc6CH9SK2D7HTjvARp_pwncg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAANnlFloumCxMuwwBwSZjX53CgAAAEAAAAHf5BZiUjixMlLGpIsdOWgQBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>
 <CALrvCLBFn9nYJrRqA193AThPN3xc6CH9SK2D7HTjvARp_pwncg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMz5XN53vaY-WR9226ikFW_b4LMvv8KVZJG-tT_NUJxMaFZyFw@mail.gmail.com>

Only just got the message.
In every workshop I've attended RP worked - usually text interventions.
I think voice was reserved to remote panellists.
Internet for the rest of us is rather tricky - to be diplomatic about it.
Deirdre

On 6 November 2012 14:34, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch> wrote:

> Dear all,
>
>   as I'm organizing a workshop tomorrow Wednesday, I'd really very
> much like to know to what extent remote participation was possible
> today. I mean, what was working technically? Has it been possible for
> remote people to follow what is going on? Are they able to communicate
> interventions by voice? Is there at least a wire-based Internet
> connection for the Remote Moderator so that remote people can comment
> by irc or twitter or skype and the remote moderator would read it out
> then?
>
> Greetings,
> Norbert
>
> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 4:52 PM, Martial Bavou[Private Business
> Account] <bavouc at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> >
> >
> > It is quite not easy to get connected remotely, sound like there is
> > something wrong technically, hope this will be sorted out before
> tomorrow.
> > Possible to have some pictures from those who are on site?
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> > To be removed from the list, visit:
> >      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
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>
>
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-- 
“The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
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From charityg at diplomacy.edu  Thu Nov  8 00:00:30 2012
From: charityg at diplomacy.edu (Charity Gamboa)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 23:00:30 -0600
Subject: [governance] Barack Obama Victory Tweet Most Retweeted Ever
In-Reply-To: <E1TWEkm-00033j-GH@frodo.hserus.net>
References: <E1TWEkm-00033j-GH@frodo.hserus.net>
Message-ID: <CABDWBFoT4R2CbQ2Q-tT5Y_6wj+LSP0A7wqkBy3bRCWO5acgK0g@mail.gmail.com>

Suresh,

It's always a matter of opinion. Anybody can hit the delete key if that
particular item perplexes them. But you know some of us who can make the
connection  - then it's not a big deal. The picture of the president and
the first lady hugging and is heavily tweeted (and even circulated in
Facebook) is a sign of free speech online.  Please don't get me wrong - you
are entitled to ask. There are so many facebook pages created in the US
that is devoted to political opinions, e.g. "*Politically Incorrect and
Proud of It Too*." Anybody can subscribe to humorous quotes, posts and
pictures that pokes fun at President Obama. That's like normal squabbling.
You have the likes of Michelle Malkin who is a very strong conservative
blogger who uses her Twitchy website to post her tweets (as screenshots) to
make a political point. So those people who tweeted on Obama's winning are
probably his supporters, thus, expressing their own right to express
themselves via social media. I see nothing wrong with that regardless if
one is a liberal, conservative or a libertarian. Do I really need to
elaborate on this issue? Nope - it's a no brainer. I just want to point out
that this is how I would think of the issue. But I wouldn't chide Fahd for
posting that here as well as he is also is exercising his right to share
his opinion. I also chose to give him a break.

Charity Gamboa-Embley

On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 5:09 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net>wrote:

> Well you see, without some commentary about it in this context from the
> original poster, it is practically impossible to tell the difference
> between that and idle forwarding of random news articles.
>
> --srs (htc one x)
>
>
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "Ivar A. M. Hartmann" <ivarhartmann at gmail.com>
> To: "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>,
> "Suresh Ramasubramanian" <suresh at hserus.net>
> Cc: "Fahd A. Batayneh" <fahd.batayneh at gmail.com>
> Subject: [governance] Barack Obama Victory Tweet Most Retweeted Ever
> Date: Thu, Nov 8, 2012 4:26 AM
>
>
> I believe major happenings in the field of social networks are of interest
> to IG.
> In this case, it's more strong evidence of the use of social networks for
> political speech. This relates to cyberdemocracy theories and concerns
> stakeholders involved in regulating free speech online as political speech
> is deemed in almost all democracies to be the type of speech that calls for
> the stronger protection.
> Just my opinion.
> Best,
> Ivar
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 8:41 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net
> >wrote:
>
> > May I ask your opinion on how or why a photo of a couple hugging is
> anyway
> > remotely related to igov?
> >
> > --srs (iPad)
> >
> > On 08-Nov-2012, at 1:26, "Fahd A. Batayneh" <fahd.batayneh at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20237531
> >
> > The words "four more years", coupled with a photo of Barack and Michelle
> > Obama embraced in a hug, have become the most retweeted Twitter post
> ever.
> >
> > Fahd
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> > To be removed from the list, visit:
> >     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
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From gurstein at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 00:02:13 2012
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 09:02:13 +0400
Subject: [governance] =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hamadoun_Tour=E9_Op-Ed_in_Wired_+?=
Message-ID: <007e01cdbd6e$55945890$00bd09b0$@gmail.com>

Hamadoun Touré has an Op-Ed in Wired

http://www.wired.com/opinion/2012/11/head-of-itu-un-should-internet-regulati
on-effort/

 

-----------------------

 

I'm unclear as to why Civil Society should be aligning itself with the
almost universal chorus of corporate and Developed Country national voices
condemning Toure/the ITU if, as he says, in his opening paragraph


 

With over 90 percent of the world’s people now within reach of mobile
phones, the challenge today is bringing internet access to the two-thirds of
the world’s population that is still offline. This challenge is compounded
by the need to ensure connectivity is affordable and safe for all.

 

and then 

 

The conference will chart a globally agreed-upon roadmap that offers future
connectivity to all, and ensures sufficient communications capacity to cope
with the exponential growth in voice, video, and data. The sole focus of the
event is making regulations valuable to all stakeholders, creating a robust
pillar to support future growth in global communications.

 

and 

 

The conference will address issues that relate to improving online access
and connectivity for everyone.

 

Surely these are appropriate goals for Civil Society as well and, rather
than joining the universal condemnation of the WCIT, CS should be looking
for ways of supporting the above goals while pursuing its own goals of
enhanced transparency and multi-stakeholder involvement in ITU processes; as
well, of course, aligning with potential allies in the corporate sector and
national governments in areas where there may be a clear consistency of
interests as in ensuring rights of privacy and free expression.

 

Mike 

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From dvbirve at yandex.ru  Thu Nov  8 00:08:40 2012
From: dvbirve at yandex.ru (Shcherbovich Andrey)
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2012 09:08:40 +0400
Subject: [governance] Today Workshop: HUMAN RIGHTS ON THE INTENET: LEGAL
 FRAMES AND TECHNOLOGICAL IMPLICATIONS
Message-ID: <716701352351320@web6e.yandex.ru>

Our workshop is scheduled to be held on Thursday, November 8, 16-30 - 18-00 Baku time, CONF. ROOM 3.

The current agenda of the workshop is listed below.

Dr. Svetlana V. Maltseva. Introductory word
Dr. Svetlana V. Maltseva and Dr. Mikhail M. Komarov. Human Rights on the Internet. Synergetic effect of the technological and legal impacts.
Dr. Anna K. Zharova and Andrey A. Shcherbovich. Adaptation of the technological solutions to the changing legal environment.
Dr. Paul Vixie. The Internet as an Expression of Individual Self Determination.
Dr. Jeremy Malcolm. Human Rights and the future of Internet Governance.
Roxana Radu. Dynamics between internet governance and human rights at the international level.


General Discussion
Dr. Wolfgang Kleinwaechter, discussant.

With kind regards, Andrey Shcherbovich
National research university "Higher school of economics"

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From suresh at hserus.net  Thu Nov  8 00:14:46 2012
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 21:14:46 -0800
Subject: [governance] Barack Obama Victory Tweet Most Retweeted Ever
In-Reply-To: <CABDWBFoT4R2CbQ2Q-tT5Y_6wj+LSP0A7wqkBy3bRCWO5acgK0g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E1TWEkm-00033j-GH@frodo.hserus.net>
 <CABDWBFoT4R2CbQ2Q-tT5Y_6wj+LSP0A7wqkBy3bRCWO5acgK0g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121108051446.GA17445@hserus.net>

Don't get me wrong, I'd have voted for Obama if I were a US citizen

The one thing I have an issue with is that there's little or no
relationship between that (or other discussion about the US elections) and
internet governance.  Except in an abstract way as an illustration of the
USA's tradition of free speech, say.

This list has a fairly high level of traffic, so getting four or five news
articles, seemingly randomly chosen, forwarded to it every day doesn't help
much.

thanks 
srs

Charity Gamboa [07/11/12 23:00 -0600]:
>Suresh,
>
>It's always a matter of opinion. Anybody can hit the delete key if that
>particular item perplexes them. But you know some of us who can make the
>connection  - then it's not a big deal. The picture of the president and
>the first lady hugging and is heavily tweeted (and even circulated in
>Facebook) is a sign of free speech online.  Please don't get me wrong - you
>are entitled to ask. There are so many facebook pages created in the US
>that is devoted to political opinions, e.g. "*Politically Incorrect and
>Proud of It Too*." Anybody can subscribe to humorous quotes, posts and
>pictures that pokes fun at President Obama. That's like normal squabbling.
>You have the likes of Michelle Malkin who is a very strong conservative
>blogger who uses her Twitchy website to post her tweets (as screenshots) to
>make a political point. So those people who tweeted on Obama's winning are
>probably his supporters, thus, expressing their own right to express
>themselves via social media. I see nothing wrong with that regardless if
>one is a liberal, conservative or a libertarian. Do I really need to
>elaborate on this issue? Nope - it's a no brainer. I just want to point out
>that this is how I would think of the issue. But I wouldn't chide Fahd for
>posting that here as well as he is also is exercising his right to share
>his opinion. I also chose to give him a break.
>
>Charity Gamboa-Embley
>
>On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 5:09 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net>wrote:
>
>> Well you see, without some commentary about it in this context from the
>> original poster, it is practically impossible to tell the difference
>> between that and idle forwarding of random news articles.
>>
>> --srs (htc one x)
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Reply message -----
>> From: "Ivar A. M. Hartmann" <ivarhartmann at gmail.com>
>> To: "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>,
>> "Suresh Ramasubramanian" <suresh at hserus.net>
>> Cc: "Fahd A. Batayneh" <fahd.batayneh at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [governance] Barack Obama Victory Tweet Most Retweeted Ever
>> Date: Thu, Nov 8, 2012 4:26 AM
>>
>>
>> I believe major happenings in the field of social networks are of interest
>> to IG.
>> In this case, it's more strong evidence of the use of social networks for
>> political speech. This relates to cyberdemocracy theories and concerns
>> stakeholders involved in regulating free speech online as political speech
>> is deemed in almost all democracies to be the type of speech that calls for
>> the stronger protection.
>> Just my opinion.
>> Best,
>> Ivar
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 8:41 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net
>> >wrote:
>>
>> > May I ask your opinion on how or why a photo of a couple hugging is
>> anyway
>> > remotely related to igov?
>> >
>> > --srs (iPad)
>> >
>> > On 08-Nov-2012, at 1:26, "Fahd A. Batayneh" <fahd.batayneh at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20237531
>> >
>> > The words "four more years", coupled with a photo of Barack and Michelle
>> > Obama embraced in a hug, have become the most retweeted Twitter post
>> ever.
>> >
>> > Fahd
>> >
>> > ____________________________________________________________
>> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>> >     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> > To be removed from the list, visit:
>> >     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> >
>> > For all other list information and functions, see:
>> >      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>> >     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> >
>> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> >
>> >
>> > ____________________________________________________________
>> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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>> >      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> >
>> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> >
>> >
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
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From chaitanyabd at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 00:33:13 2012
From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 11:03:13 +0530
Subject: [governance] Barack Obama Victory Tweet Most Retweeted Ever
In-Reply-To: <20121108051446.GA17445@hserus.net>
References: <E1TWEkm-00033j-GH@frodo.hserus.net>
	<CABDWBFoT4R2CbQ2Q-tT5Y_6wj+LSP0A7wqkBy3bRCWO5acgK0g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121108051446.GA17445@hserus.net>
Message-ID: <CAEP5zKRMQgXn=cyoPshRO4abGMFSj0i9z-t1+dL=pmhXYtvhew@mail.gmail.com>

Given the recent issues with the USG asserting (or trying to assert) a fair
bit of control over the internet, and the fact that Obama's government
veto'd the change I figure it's relevant to us in the context that the
status quo will continue. A change of first citizen of the US can result in
fair few changes in the overall thinking/working of the country - so yes
this *news* is certainly important.

The article just looks like an 'election update' type of news and not
particularly relevant - so, Suresh I do agree with you here.

-C

On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian
<suresh at hserus.net>wrote:

> Don't get me wrong, I'd have voted for Obama if I were a US citizen
>
> The one thing I have an issue with is that there's little or no
> relationship between that (or other discussion about the US elections) and
> internet governance.  Except in an abstract way as an illustration of the
> USA's tradition of free speech, say.
>
> This list has a fairly high level of traffic, so getting four or five news
> articles, seemingly randomly chosen, forwarded to it every day doesn't help
> much.
>
> thanks srs
>
> Charity Gamboa [07/11/12 23:00 -0600]:
>
>> Suresh,
>>
>> It's always a matter of opinion. Anybody can hit the delete key if that
>> particular item perplexes them. But you know some of us who can make the
>> connection  - then it's not a big deal. The picture of the president and
>> the first lady hugging and is heavily tweeted (and even circulated in
>> Facebook) is a sign of free speech online.  Please don't get me wrong -
>> you
>> are entitled to ask. There are so many facebook pages created in the US
>> that is devoted to political opinions, e.g. "*Politically Incorrect and
>> Proud of It Too*." Anybody can subscribe to humorous quotes, posts and
>>
>> pictures that pokes fun at President Obama. That's like normal squabbling.
>> You have the likes of Michelle Malkin who is a very strong conservative
>> blogger who uses her Twitchy website to post her tweets (as screenshots)
>> to
>> make a political point. So those people who tweeted on Obama's winning are
>> probably his supporters, thus, expressing their own right to express
>> themselves via social media. I see nothing wrong with that regardless if
>> one is a liberal, conservative or a libertarian. Do I really need to
>> elaborate on this issue? Nope - it's a no brainer. I just want to point
>> out
>> that this is how I would think of the issue. But I wouldn't chide Fahd for
>> posting that here as well as he is also is exercising his right to share
>> his opinion. I also chose to give him a break.
>>
>> Charity Gamboa-Embley
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 5:09 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net
>> >wrote:
>>
>>  Well you see, without some commentary about it in this context from the
>>> original poster, it is practically impossible to tell the difference
>>> between that and idle forwarding of random news articles.
>>>
>>> --srs (htc one x)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Reply message -----
>>> From: "Ivar A. M. Hartmann" <ivarhartmann at gmail.com>
>>> To: "governance at lists.igcaucus.org**" <governance at lists.igcaucus.org**>,
>>> "Suresh Ramasubramanian" <suresh at hserus.net>
>>> Cc: "Fahd A. Batayneh" <fahd.batayneh at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: [governance] Barack Obama Victory Tweet Most Retweeted Ever
>>> Date: Thu, Nov 8, 2012 4:26 AM
>>>
>>>
>>> I believe major happenings in the field of social networks are of
>>> interest
>>> to IG.
>>> In this case, it's more strong evidence of the use of social networks for
>>> political speech. This relates to cyberdemocracy theories and concerns
>>> stakeholders involved in regulating free speech online as political
>>> speech
>>> is deemed in almost all democracies to be the type of speech that calls
>>> for
>>> the stronger protection.
>>> Just my opinion.
>>> Best,
>>> Ivar
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 8:41 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <
>>> suresh at hserus.net
>>> >wrote:
>>>
>>> > May I ask your opinion on how or why a photo of a couple hugging is
>>> anyway
>>> > remotely related to igov?
>>> >
>>> > --srs (iPad)
>>> >
>>> > On 08-Nov-2012, at 1:26, "Fahd A. Batayneh" <fahd.batayneh at gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/**technology-20237531<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20237531>
>>> >
>>> > The words "four more years", coupled with a photo of Barack and
>>> Michelle
>>> > Obama embraced in a hug, have become the most retweeted Twitter post
>>> ever.
>>> >
>>> > Fahd
>>> >
>>> > ______________________________**______________________________
>>> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>> >     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> > To be removed from the list, visit:
>>> >     http://www.igcaucus.org/**unsubscribing<http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing>
>>> >
>>> > For all other list information and functions, see:
>>> >      http://lists.igcaucus.org/**info/governance<http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance>
>>> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>> >     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>> >
>>> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/**translate_t<http://translate.google.com/translate_t>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ______________________________**______________________________
>>> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>> >      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> > To be removed from the list, visit:
>>> >      http://www.igcaucus.org/**unsubscribing<http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing>
>>> >
>>> > For all other list information and functions, see:
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>>> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>> >      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>> >
>>> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/**translate_t<http://translate.google.com/translate_t>
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> ______________________________**______________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/**unsubscribing<http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing>
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
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>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
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>>>
>>>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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> To be removed from the list, visit:
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From suresh at hserus.net  Thu Nov  8 00:34:15 2012
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 21:34:15 -0800
Subject: [governance] Barack Obama Victory Tweet Most Retweeted Ever
In-Reply-To: <CAEP5zKRMQgXn=cyoPshRO4abGMFSj0i9z-t1+dL=pmhXYtvhew@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E1TWEkm-00033j-GH@frodo.hserus.net>
 <CABDWBFoT4R2CbQ2Q-tT5Y_6wj+LSP0A7wqkBy3bRCWO5acgK0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20121108051446.GA17445@hserus.net>
 <CAEP5zKRMQgXn=cyoPshRO4abGMFSj0i9z-t1+dL=pmhXYtvhew@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121108053415.GA17621@hserus.net>

Do you seriously believe that *Romney* is going to do anything different?

As for "fair bit of control" - does that mean you support handing all this
over to the ITU?

Chaitanya Dhareshwar [08/11/12 11:03 +0530]:
>Given the recent issues with the USG asserting (or trying to assert) a fair
>bit of control over the internet, and the fact that Obama's government
>veto'd the change I figure it's relevant to us in the context that the
>status quo will continue. A change of first citizen of the US can result in
>fair few changes in the overall thinking/working of the country - so yes
>this *news* is certainly important.
>
>The article just looks like an 'election update' type of news and not
>particularly relevant - so, Suresh I do agree with you here.
>
>-C
>
>On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian
><suresh at hserus.net>wrote:
>
>> Don't get me wrong, I'd have voted for Obama if I were a US citizen
>>
>> The one thing I have an issue with is that there's little or no
>> relationship between that (or other discussion about the US elections) and
>> internet governance.  Except in an abstract way as an illustration of the
>> USA's tradition of free speech, say.
>>
>> This list has a fairly high level of traffic, so getting four or five news
>> articles, seemingly randomly chosen, forwarded to it every day doesn't help
>> much.
>>
>> thanks srs
>>
>> Charity Gamboa [07/11/12 23:00 -0600]:
>>
>>> Suresh,
>>>
>>> It's always a matter of opinion. Anybody can hit the delete key if that
>>> particular item perplexes them. But you know some of us who can make the
>>> connection  - then it's not a big deal. The picture of the president and
>>> the first lady hugging and is heavily tweeted (and even circulated in
>>> Facebook) is a sign of free speech online.  Please don't get me wrong -
>>> you
>>> are entitled to ask. There are so many facebook pages created in the US
>>> that is devoted to political opinions, e.g. "*Politically Incorrect and
>>> Proud of It Too*." Anybody can subscribe to humorous quotes, posts and
>>>
>>> pictures that pokes fun at President Obama. That's like normal squabbling.
>>> You have the likes of Michelle Malkin who is a very strong conservative
>>> blogger who uses her Twitchy website to post her tweets (as screenshots)
>>> to
>>> make a political point. So those people who tweeted on Obama's winning are
>>> probably his supporters, thus, expressing their own right to express
>>> themselves via social media. I see nothing wrong with that regardless if
>>> one is a liberal, conservative or a libertarian. Do I really need to
>>> elaborate on this issue? Nope - it's a no brainer. I just want to point
>>> out
>>> that this is how I would think of the issue. But I wouldn't chide Fahd for
>>> posting that here as well as he is also is exercising his right to share
>>> his opinion. I also chose to give him a break.
>>>
>>> Charity Gamboa-Embley
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 5:09 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net
>>> >wrote:
>>>
>>>  Well you see, without some commentary about it in this context from the
>>>> original poster, it is practically impossible to tell the difference
>>>> between that and idle forwarding of random news articles.
>>>>
>>>> --srs (htc one x)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Reply message -----
>>>> From: "Ivar A. M. Hartmann" <ivarhartmann at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "governance at lists.igcaucus.org**" <governance at lists.igcaucus.org**>,
>>>> "Suresh Ramasubramanian" <suresh at hserus.net>
>>>> Cc: "Fahd A. Batayneh" <fahd.batayneh at gmail.com>
>>>> Subject: [governance] Barack Obama Victory Tweet Most Retweeted Ever
>>>> Date: Thu, Nov 8, 2012 4:26 AM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I believe major happenings in the field of social networks are of
>>>> interest
>>>> to IG.
>>>> In this case, it's more strong evidence of the use of social networks for
>>>> political speech. This relates to cyberdemocracy theories and concerns
>>>> stakeholders involved in regulating free speech online as political
>>>> speech
>>>> is deemed in almost all democracies to be the type of speech that calls
>>>> for
>>>> the stronger protection.
>>>> Just my opinion.
>>>> Best,
>>>> Ivar
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 8:41 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <
>>>> suresh at hserus.net
>>>> >wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > May I ask your opinion on how or why a photo of a couple hugging is
>>>> anyway
>>>> > remotely related to igov?
>>>> >
>>>> > --srs (iPad)
>>>> >
>>>> > On 08-Nov-2012, at 1:26, "Fahd A. Batayneh" <fahd.batayneh at gmail.com>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/**technology-20237531<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20237531>
>>>> >
>>>> > The words "four more years", coupled with a photo of Barack and
>>>> Michelle
>>>> > Obama embraced in a hug, have become the most retweeted Twitter post
>>>> ever.
>>>> >
>>>> > Fahd
>>>> >
>>>> > ______________________________**______________________________
>>>> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>> >     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>>> > To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>> >     http://www.igcaucus.org/**unsubscribing<http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing>
>>>> >
>>>> > For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>> >      http://lists.igcaucus.org/**info/governance<http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance>
>>>> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>> >     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>> >
>>>> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/**translate_t<http://translate.google.com/translate_t>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > ______________________________**______________________________
>>>> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>> >      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>>> > To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>> >      http://www.igcaucus.org/**unsubscribing<http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing>
>>>> >
>>>> > For all other list information and functions, see:
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>>>> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>> >      http://www.igcaucus.org/
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From chaitanyabd at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 00:41:13 2012
From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 11:11:13 +0530
Subject: [governance] Barack Obama Victory Tweet Most Retweeted Ever
In-Reply-To: <20121108053415.GA17621@hserus.net>
References: <E1TWEkm-00033j-GH@frodo.hserus.net>
	<CABDWBFoT4R2CbQ2Q-tT5Y_6wj+LSP0A7wqkBy3bRCWO5acgK0g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121108051446.GA17445@hserus.net>
	<CAEP5zKRMQgXn=cyoPshRO4abGMFSj0i9z-t1+dL=pmhXYtvhew@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121108053415.GA17621@hserus.net>
Message-ID: <CAEP5zKSgQZ3OEwcYNGGQoD2sFp15Co51daUzupoBy8fPkjN7aw@mail.gmail.com>

"Is going to" - no because he didnt get the top job. "Would he have done
something different?" possibly - but we won't know by speculating. IMHO yes
Romney would have approached the point differently.

I said "issues with" don't miss that out please. Those issues were veto'd
which I've also written - do re-read the sentence with these points in mind
- and not push me into a boat. I'm yet to choose which one (though non-ITU
sounds good, again IMHO).

Best,
C

On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian
<suresh at hserus.net>wrote:

> Do you seriously believe that *Romney* is going to do anything different?
>
> As for "fair bit of control" - does that mean you support handing all this
> over to the ITU?
>
> Chaitanya Dhareshwar [08/11/12 11:03 +0530]:
>
>> Given the recent issues with the USG asserting (or trying to assert) a
>> fair
>> bit of control over the internet, and the fact that Obama's government
>> veto'd the change I figure it's relevant to us in the context that the
>> status quo will continue. A change of first citizen of the US can result
>> in
>> fair few changes in the overall thinking/working of the country - so yes
>> this *news* is certainly important.
>>
>>
>> The article just looks like an 'election update' type of news and not
>> particularly relevant - so, Suresh I do agree with you here.
>>
>> -C
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian
>> <suresh at hserus.net>wrote:
>>
>>  Don't get me wrong, I'd have voted for Obama if I were a US citizen
>>>
>>> The one thing I have an issue with is that there's little or no
>>> relationship between that (or other discussion about the US elections)
>>> and
>>> internet governance.  Except in an abstract way as an illustration of the
>>> USA's tradition of free speech, say.
>>>
>>> This list has a fairly high level of traffic, so getting four or five
>>> news
>>> articles, seemingly randomly chosen, forwarded to it every day doesn't
>>> help
>>> much.
>>>
>>> thanks srs
>>>
>>> Charity Gamboa [07/11/12 23:00 -0600]:
>>>
>>>  Suresh,
>>>>
>>>> It's always a matter of opinion. Anybody can hit the delete key if that
>>>> particular item perplexes them. But you know some of us who can make the
>>>> connection  - then it's not a big deal. The picture of the president and
>>>> the first lady hugging and is heavily tweeted (and even circulated in
>>>> Facebook) is a sign of free speech online.  Please don't get me wrong -
>>>> you
>>>> are entitled to ask. There are so many facebook pages created in the US
>>>> that is devoted to political opinions, e.g. "*Politically Incorrect and
>>>> Proud of It Too*." Anybody can subscribe to humorous quotes, posts and
>>>>
>>>> pictures that pokes fun at President Obama. That's like normal
>>>> squabbling.
>>>> You have the likes of Michelle Malkin who is a very strong conservative
>>>> blogger who uses her Twitchy website to post her tweets (as screenshots)
>>>> to
>>>> make a political point. So those people who tweeted on Obama's winning
>>>> are
>>>> probably his supporters, thus, expressing their own right to express
>>>> themselves via social media. I see nothing wrong with that regardless if
>>>> one is a liberal, conservative or a libertarian. Do I really need to
>>>> elaborate on this issue? Nope - it's a no brainer. I just want to point
>>>> out
>>>> that this is how I would think of the issue. But I wouldn't chide Fahd
>>>> for
>>>> posting that here as well as he is also is exercising his right to share
>>>> his opinion. I also chose to give him a break.
>>>>
>>>> Charity Gamboa-Embley
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 5:09 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <
>>>> suresh at hserus.net
>>>> >wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Well you see, without some commentary about it in this context from the
>>>>
>>>>> original poster, it is practically impossible to tell the difference
>>>>> between that and idle forwarding of random news articles.
>>>>>
>>>>> --srs (htc one x)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Reply message -----
>>>>> From: "Ivar A. M. Hartmann" <ivarhartmann at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "governance at lists.igcaucus.org****" <governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>>>> ****>,
>>>>> "Suresh Ramasubramanian" <suresh at hserus.net>
>>>>> Cc: "Fahd A. Batayneh" <fahd.batayneh at gmail.com>
>>>>> Subject: [governance] Barack Obama Victory Tweet Most Retweeted Ever
>>>>> Date: Thu, Nov 8, 2012 4:26 AM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe major happenings in the field of social networks are of
>>>>> interest
>>>>> to IG.
>>>>> In this case, it's more strong evidence of the use of social networks
>>>>> for
>>>>> political speech. This relates to cyberdemocracy theories and concerns
>>>>> stakeholders involved in regulating free speech online as political
>>>>> speech
>>>>> is deemed in almost all democracies to be the type of speech that calls
>>>>> for
>>>>> the stronger protection.
>>>>> Just my opinion.
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Ivar
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 8:41 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <
>>>>> suresh at hserus.net
>>>>> >wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > May I ask your opinion on how or why a photo of a couple hugging is
>>>>> anyway
>>>>> > remotely related to igov?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > --srs (iPad)
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On 08-Nov-2012, at 1:26, "Fahd A. Batayneh" <fahd.batayneh at gmail.com
>>>>> >
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/****technology-20237531<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/**technology-20237531>
>>>>> <http://**www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-**20237531<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20237531>
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> > The words "four more years", coupled with a photo of Barack and
>>>>> Michelle
>>>>> > Obama embraced in a hug, have become the most retweeted Twitter post
>>>>> ever.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Fahd
>>>>> >
>>>>> > ______________________________****____________________________**__
>>>>>
>>>>> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>>> >     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>>>> > To be removed from the list, visit:
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>>>>> <http://www.**igcaucus.org/unsubscribing<http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing>
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> > For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>>> >      http://lists.igcaucus.org/****info/governance<http://lists.igcaucus.org/**info/governance>
>>>>> <http://lists.**igcaucus.org/info/governance<http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance>
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>>> >     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/****translate_t<http://translate.google.com/**translate_t>
>>>>> <http://translate.**google.com/translate_t<http://translate.google.com/translate_t>
>>>>> >
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>>>>> >
>>>>> > ______________________________****____________________________**__
>>>>>
>>>>> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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>>>>> > To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>>> >      http://www.igcaucus.org/****unsubscribing<http://www.igcaucus.org/**unsubscribing>
>>>>> <http://www.**igcaucus.org/unsubscribing<http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing>
>>>>> >
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>>>>> > For all other list information and functions, see:
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>>>>> <http://lists.**igcaucus.org/info/governance<http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance>
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>>>>> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
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>>>>> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/****translate_t<http://translate.google.com/**translate_t>
>>>>> <http://translate.**google.com/translate_t<http://translate.google.com/translate_t>
>>>>> >
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>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________****____________________________**__
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
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>>>>>
>>> ______________________________**______________________________
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From gideonrop at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 00:52:47 2012
From: gideonrop at gmail.com (Gideon)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 08:52:47 +0300
Subject: [governance] Good Bye .DOTAFRICA: ICANN Approves the Change
 Request Made by DotConnectAfrica Trust for Its .Africa
In-Reply-To: <CABBOhxqd2s50aCAYGkiL8p1E9bdzW5MRaSKACVktssDq_3RxGg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E1TVlJ2-0004V3-5L@frodo.hserus.net> <CAP2ohHE5UDxtXWqud4MR7yvUSUymsZ4vBdEe_HqFXAs=JvsAvw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20121107081316.GA28721@hserus.net> <CAP2ohHGK7LYNO82=y6T9RAnxPSVtPg6_3VD3-auRS7_Om-5ONQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACAaNxgzV9raFL_q=H5WMM_cwpQcw30VydD8R3JSmvzzpjyvJw@mail.gmail.com> <CABBOhxqd2s50aCAYGkiL8p1E9bdzW5MRaSKACVktssDq_3RxGg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP2ohHGnE6Y2ZpTJhTJ8DX2DipTN9X_oJ4b=1hzkexORcLHSsg@mail.gmail.com>

McTim,

You should be asking the AU to explain that not DCA.   Given that the
source of the document you obtained is from DCA's site, you can see DCA has
nothing to hide, it has replied to that AU communique  with the following
press statement. There is always 2 sides to a story.
http://www.prlog.org/11490290-dca-commentary-response-to-the-african-union-commission-communiqu-clarification-on-dotafrica.html
Regarding the open EOI or RFP AU claims it has eventually done, let AU e
xplain this as well.
http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs053/1102516344150/archive/1109846725800.html

Indeed Fahd, .africa is a fireworks!  Public interest with who?   I hope
you do not mean with the AU!

Gideon.


On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 9:46 PM, Fahd A. Batayneh <fahd.batayneh at gmail.com>wrote:

> It seems that .Africa is destined to fireworks. I wonder where does "the
> public interest" stand at.
>
> Fahd
>  On Nov 7, 2012 9:38 PM, "McTim" <dogwallah at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 1:07 PM, Gideon <gideonrop at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Our endorsement is compliant with ICANN requirements and no letter has
>> been
>> > written for DCA explicitly withdrawing AU support.
>>
>> so how do you explain this one:
>>
>>
>> http://library.constantcontact.com/download/get/file/1102516344150-107/Communique_Statement_by_AUC_on_Dot_Africa_May_10th__AO+MY_+BK_Comments%5b1%5d.pdf
>>
>> ????
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cheers,
>>
>> McTim
>> "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A
>> route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
> ____________________________________________________________
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> To be removed from the list, visit:
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From suresh at hserus.net  Thu Nov  8 01:13:05 2012
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 22:13:05 -0800
Subject: [governance] Barack Obama Victory Tweet Most Retweeted Ever
In-Reply-To: <CAEP5zKSgQZ3OEwcYNGGQoD2sFp15Co51daUzupoBy8fPkjN7aw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E1TWEkm-00033j-GH@frodo.hserus.net>
 <CABDWBFoT4R2CbQ2Q-tT5Y_6wj+LSP0A7wqkBy3bRCWO5acgK0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20121108051446.GA17445@hserus.net>
 <CAEP5zKRMQgXn=cyoPshRO4abGMFSj0i9z-t1+dL=pmhXYtvhew@mail.gmail.com>
 <20121108053415.GA17621@hserus.net>
 <CAEP5zKSgQZ3OEwcYNGGQoD2sFp15Co51daUzupoBy8fPkjN7aw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121108061304.GA18038@hserus.net>

I'm for maintaining the icann / RIR etc status quo with more people enabled
to participate more actively in these.

Participation from say India has been fairly limited for one reason or the
other (industry to some extent though it started to get vocal, and rather
political, in apnic .. and government to a rather larger extent)

Chaitanya Dhareshwar [08/11/12 11:11 +0530]:
>"Is going to" - no because he didnt get the top job. "Would he have done
>something different?" possibly - but we won't know by speculating. IMHO yes
>Romney would have approached the point differently.
>
>I said "issues with" don't miss that out please. Those issues were veto'd
>which I've also written - do re-read the sentence with these points in mind
>- and not push me into a boat. I'm yet to choose which one (though non-ITU
>sounds good, again IMHO).
>
>Best,
>C
>
>On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian
><suresh at hserus.net>wrote:
>
>> Do you seriously believe that *Romney* is going to do anything different?
>>
>> As for "fair bit of control" - does that mean you support handing all this
>> over to the ITU?
>>
>> Chaitanya Dhareshwar [08/11/12 11:03 +0530]:
>>
>>> Given the recent issues with the USG asserting (or trying to assert) a
>>> fair
>>> bit of control over the internet, and the fact that Obama's government
>>> veto'd the change I figure it's relevant to us in the context that the
>>> status quo will continue. A change of first citizen of the US can result
>>> in
>>> fair few changes in the overall thinking/working of the country - so yes
>>> this *news* is certainly important.
>>>
>>>
>>> The article just looks like an 'election update' type of news and not
>>> particularly relevant - so, Suresh I do agree with you here.
>>>
>>> -C
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian
>>> <suresh at hserus.net>wrote:
>>>
>>>  Don't get me wrong, I'd have voted for Obama if I were a US citizen
>>>>
>>>> The one thing I have an issue with is that there's little or no
>>>> relationship between that (or other discussion about the US elections)
>>>> and
>>>> internet governance.  Except in an abstract way as an illustration of the
>>>> USA's tradition of free speech, say.
>>>>
>>>> This list has a fairly high level of traffic, so getting four or five
>>>> news
>>>> articles, seemingly randomly chosen, forwarded to it every day doesn't
>>>> help
>>>> much.
>>>>
>>>> thanks srs
>>>>
>>>> Charity Gamboa [07/11/12 23:00 -0600]:
>>>>
>>>>  Suresh,
>>>>>
>>>>> It's always a matter of opinion. Anybody can hit the delete key if that
>>>>> particular item perplexes them. But you know some of us who can make the
>>>>> connection  - then it's not a big deal. The picture of the president and
>>>>> the first lady hugging and is heavily tweeted (and even circulated in
>>>>> Facebook) is a sign of free speech online.  Please don't get me wrong -
>>>>> you
>>>>> are entitled to ask. There are so many facebook pages created in the US
>>>>> that is devoted to political opinions, e.g. "*Politically Incorrect and
>>>>> Proud of It Too*." Anybody can subscribe to humorous quotes, posts and
>>>>>
>>>>> pictures that pokes fun at President Obama. That's like normal
>>>>> squabbling.
>>>>> You have the likes of Michelle Malkin who is a very strong conservative
>>>>> blogger who uses her Twitchy website to post her tweets (as screenshots)
>>>>> to
>>>>> make a political point. So those people who tweeted on Obama's winning
>>>>> are
>>>>> probably his supporters, thus, expressing their own right to express
>>>>> themselves via social media. I see nothing wrong with that regardless if
>>>>> one is a liberal, conservative or a libertarian. Do I really need to
>>>>> elaborate on this issue? Nope - it's a no brainer. I just want to point
>>>>> out
>>>>> that this is how I would think of the issue. But I wouldn't chide Fahd
>>>>> for
>>>>> posting that here as well as he is also is exercising his right to share
>>>>> his opinion. I also chose to give him a break.
>>>>>
>>>>> Charity Gamboa-Embley
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 5:09 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <
>>>>> suresh at hserus.net
>>>>> >wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  Well you see, without some commentary about it in this context from the
>>>>>
>>>>>> original poster, it is practically impossible to tell the difference
>>>>>> between that and idle forwarding of random news articles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --srs (htc one x)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Reply message -----
>>>>>> From: "Ivar A. M. Hartmann" <ivarhartmann at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "governance at lists.igcaucus.org****" <governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>>>>> ****>,
>>>>>> "Suresh Ramasubramanian" <suresh at hserus.net>
>>>>>> Cc: "Fahd A. Batayneh" <fahd.batayneh at gmail.com>
>>>>>> Subject: [governance] Barack Obama Victory Tweet Most Retweeted Ever
>>>>>> Date: Thu, Nov 8, 2012 4:26 AM
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I believe major happenings in the field of social networks are of
>>>>>> interest
>>>>>> to IG.
>>>>>> In this case, it's more strong evidence of the use of social networks
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> political speech. This relates to cyberdemocracy theories and concerns
>>>>>> stakeholders involved in regulating free speech online as political
>>>>>> speech
>>>>>> is deemed in almost all democracies to be the type of speech that calls
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> the stronger protection.
>>>>>> Just my opinion.
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Ivar
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 8:41 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <
>>>>>> suresh at hserus.net
>>>>>> >wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > May I ask your opinion on how or why a photo of a couple hugging is
>>>>>> anyway
>>>>>> > remotely related to igov?
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > --srs (iPad)
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > On 08-Nov-2012, at 1:26, "Fahd A. Batayneh" <fahd.batayneh at gmail.com
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/****technology-20237531<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/**technology-20237531>
>>>>>> <http://**www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-**20237531<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20237531>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > The words "four more years", coupled with a photo of Barack and
>>>>>> Michelle
>>>>>> > Obama embraced in a hug, have become the most retweeted Twitter post
>>>>>> ever.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Fahd
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > ______________________________****____________________________**__
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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From suresh at hserus.net  Thu Nov  8 01:26:35 2012
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 22:26:35 -0800
Subject: [governance] Barack Obama Victory Tweet Most Retweeted Ever
In-Reply-To: <481017079-1352355196-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1789625152-@b26.c9.bise7.blackberry>
References: <E1TWEkm-00033j-GH@frodo.hserus.net>
 <481017079-1352355196-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1789625152-@b26.c9.bise7.blackberry>
Message-ID: <20121108062635.GA19307@hserus.net>

ecsae at live.warwick.ac.uk [08/11/12 06:13 +0000]:
>"Random"? Do you mean this in the literal sense (I will be willing to bet
>that the OP's message was deterministic, intended and conscious. But if
>you mean it in the current slang sense, the only possible sense is "whevs"
>:-)

Deterministic to an extent. Entirely random in what appears in his news
feed (the bbc, news.google.com etc). 

And bearing not very much relationship to igov at all.  Do remember
"governance" rather than civil society group dynamics.

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From admin at alkasir.com  Thu Nov  8 01:28:37 2012
From: admin at alkasir.com (Walid AL-SAQAF <alkasir admin>)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 07:28:37 +0100
Subject: [governance] IGF2012, Remote Connection
In-Reply-To: <CAMz5XN53vaY-WR9226ikFW_b4LMvv8KVZJG-tT_NUJxMaFZyFw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAANnlFloumCxMuwwBwSZjX53CgAAAEAAAAHf5BZiUjixMlLGpIsdOWgQBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>
	<CALrvCLBFn9nYJrRqA193AThPN3xc6CH9SK2D7HTjvARp_pwncg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMz5XN53vaY-WR9226ikFW_b4LMvv8KVZJG-tT_NUJxMaFZyFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKJSUiwTxQ-n5uZOuj4OhKSTJzft7AhPm-O6uNfHN2_9fnpT7g@mail.gmail.com>

I too was successfully able to participate remotely yesterday in one of th
workshops and got my question kindly answered by the panel.

But I noticed that not all rooms had a moderator/host at the other end. I
mean there is a remote participation room and I could go in with the
password given, but when I arrive, I am all alone. I could still hear the
audio but there was no one to receive my questions.

The web-cast worked well as far as I can tell.

Sincerely,

Walid

-----------------

Walid Al-Saqaf
Founder & Administrator
alkasir for mapping and circumventing cyber censorship
https://alkasir.com <walid.al-saqaf at oru.se>


On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 5:38 AM, Deirdre Williams <williams.deirdre at gmail.com
> wrote:

> Only just got the message.
> In every workshop I've attended RP worked - usually text interventions.
> I think voice was reserved to remote panellists.
> Internet for the rest of us is rather tricky - to be diplomatic about it.
> Deirdre
>
>
> On 6 November 2012 14:34, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch> wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>>   as I'm organizing a workshop tomorrow Wednesday, I'd really very
>> much like to know to what extent remote participation was possible
>> today. I mean, what was working technically? Has it been possible for
>> remote people to follow what is going on? Are they able to communicate
>> interventions by voice? Is there at least a wire-based Internet
>> connection for the Remote Moderator so that remote people can comment
>> by irc or twitter or skype and the remote moderator would read it out
>> then?
>>
>> Greetings,
>> Norbert
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 4:52 PM, Martial Bavou[Private Business
>> Account] <bavouc at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > It is quite not easy to get connected remotely, sound like there is
>> > something wrong technically, hope this will be sorted out before
>> tomorrow.
>> > Possible to have some pictures from those who are on site?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> >
>> > ____________________________________________________________
>> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>> >      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> > To be removed from the list, visit:
>> >      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> >
>> > For all other list information and functions, see:
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>> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> >
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
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>
>
> --
> “The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
> Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
>
> ____________________________________________________________
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From chaitanyabd at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 01:49:06 2012
From: chaitanyabd at gmail.com (Chaitanya Dhareshwar)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 12:19:06 +0530
Subject: [governance] Barack Obama Victory Tweet Most Retweeted Ever
In-Reply-To: <20121108061304.GA18038@hserus.net>
References: <E1TWEkm-00033j-GH@frodo.hserus.net>
	<CABDWBFoT4R2CbQ2Q-tT5Y_6wj+LSP0A7wqkBy3bRCWO5acgK0g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121108051446.GA17445@hserus.net>
	<CAEP5zKRMQgXn=cyoPshRO4abGMFSj0i9z-t1+dL=pmhXYtvhew@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121108053415.GA17621@hserus.net>
	<CAEP5zKSgQZ3OEwcYNGGQoD2sFp15Co51daUzupoBy8fPkjN7aw@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121108061304.GA18038@hserus.net>
Message-ID: <CAEP5zKR_Hyw+wHia3v+i1atqw3Dout3hAjDFZPS-4eKCVEO=vQ@mail.gmail.com>

While on the topic of participation from India I was hoping to hear more
about the discussion the IT minister had @Baku. I'm sure it'll get better
(yes I'm a glass-full person) over time as there have been little or no
politically motivated improvements to
connectivity/interaction/participation thus far and it's going to start
soon.

Agreed on people participation.

-C

On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian
<suresh at hserus.net>wrote:

> I'm for maintaining the icann / RIR etc status quo with more people enabled
> to participate more actively in these.
>
> Participation from say India has been fairly limited for one reason or the
> other (industry to some extent though it started to get vocal, and rather
> political, in apnic .. and government to a rather larger extent)
>
> Chaitanya Dhareshwar [08/11/12 11:11 +0530]:
>
>> "Is going to" - no because he didnt get the top job. "Would he have done
>> something different?" possibly - but we won't know by speculating. IMHO
>> yes
>> Romney would have approached the point differently.
>>
>> I said "issues with" don't miss that out please. Those issues were veto'd
>> which I've also written - do re-read the sentence with these points in
>> mind
>> - and not push me into a boat. I'm yet to choose which one (though non-ITU
>> sounds good, again IMHO).
>>
>> Best,
>> C
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian
>> <suresh at hserus.net>wrote:
>>
>>  Do you seriously believe that *Romney* is going to do anything different?
>>>
>>> As for "fair bit of control" - does that mean you support handing all
>>> this
>>> over to the ITU?
>>>
>>> Chaitanya Dhareshwar [08/11/12 11:03 +0530]:
>>>
>>>  Given the recent issues with the USG asserting (or trying to assert) a
>>>> fair
>>>> bit of control over the internet, and the fact that Obama's government
>>>> veto'd the change I figure it's relevant to us in the context that the
>>>> status quo will continue. A change of first citizen of the US can result
>>>> in
>>>> fair few changes in the overall thinking/working of the country - so yes
>>>> this *news* is certainly important.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The article just looks like an 'election update' type of news and not
>>>> particularly relevant - so, Suresh I do agree with you here.
>>>>
>>>> -C
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian
>>>> <suresh at hserus.net>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Don't get me wrong, I'd have voted for Obama if I were a US citizen
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The one thing I have an issue with is that there's little or no
>>>>> relationship between that (or other discussion about the US elections)
>>>>> and
>>>>> internet governance.  Except in an abstract way as an illustration of
>>>>> the
>>>>> USA's tradition of free speech, say.
>>>>>
>>>>> This list has a fairly high level of traffic, so getting four or five
>>>>> news
>>>>> articles, seemingly randomly chosen, forwarded to it every day doesn't
>>>>> help
>>>>> much.
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks srs
>>>>>
>>>>> Charity Gamboa [07/11/12 23:00 -0600]:
>>>>>
>>>>>  Suresh,
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's always a matter of opinion. Anybody can hit the delete key if
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> particular item perplexes them. But you know some of us who can make
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> connection  - then it's not a big deal. The picture of the president
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> the first lady hugging and is heavily tweeted (and even circulated in
>>>>>> Facebook) is a sign of free speech online.  Please don't get me wrong
>>>>>> -
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> are entitled to ask. There are so many facebook pages created in the
>>>>>> US
>>>>>> that is devoted to political opinions, e.g. "*Politically Incorrect
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> Proud of It Too*." Anybody can subscribe to humorous quotes, posts and
>>>>>>
>>>>>> pictures that pokes fun at President Obama. That's like normal
>>>>>> squabbling.
>>>>>> You have the likes of Michelle Malkin who is a very strong
>>>>>> conservative
>>>>>> blogger who uses her Twitchy website to post her tweets (as
>>>>>> screenshots)
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> make a political point. So those people who tweeted on Obama's winning
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> probably his supporters, thus, expressing their own right to express
>>>>>> themselves via social media. I see nothing wrong with that regardless
>>>>>> if
>>>>>> one is a liberal, conservative or a libertarian. Do I really need to
>>>>>> elaborate on this issue? Nope - it's a no brainer. I just want to
>>>>>> point
>>>>>> out
>>>>>> that this is how I would think of the issue. But I wouldn't chide Fahd
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> posting that here as well as he is also is exercising his right to
>>>>>> share
>>>>>> his opinion. I also chose to give him a break.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Charity Gamboa-Embley
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 5:09 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <
>>>>>> suresh at hserus.net
>>>>>> >wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Well you see, without some commentary about it in this context from
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  original poster, it is practically impossible to tell the difference
>>>>>>> between that and idle forwarding of random news articles.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --srs (htc one x)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Reply message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Ivar A. M. Hartmann" <ivarhartmann at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "governance at lists.igcaucus.org******" <
>>>>>>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>>>>>> ****>,
>>>>>>> "Suresh Ramasubramanian" <suresh at hserus.net>
>>>>>>> Cc: "Fahd A. Batayneh" <fahd.batayneh at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> Subject: [governance] Barack Obama Victory Tweet Most Retweeted Ever
>>>>>>> Date: Thu, Nov 8, 2012 4:26 AM
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I believe major happenings in the field of social networks are of
>>>>>>> interest
>>>>>>> to IG.
>>>>>>> In this case, it's more strong evidence of the use of social networks
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> political speech. This relates to cyberdemocracy theories and
>>>>>>> concerns
>>>>>>> stakeholders involved in regulating free speech online as political
>>>>>>> speech
>>>>>>> is deemed in almost all democracies to be the type of speech that
>>>>>>> calls
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> the stronger protection.
>>>>>>> Just my opinion.
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>> Ivar
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 8:41 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <
>>>>>>> suresh at hserus.net
>>>>>>> >wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > May I ask your opinion on how or why a photo of a couple hugging is
>>>>>>> anyway
>>>>>>> > remotely related to igov?
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > --srs (iPad)
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > On 08-Nov-2012, at 1:26, "Fahd A. Batayneh" <
>>>>>>> fahd.batayneh at gmail.com
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/******technology-20237531<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/****technology-20237531>
>>>>>>> <http://**www.bbc.co.uk/news/****technology-20237531<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/**technology-20237531>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> <http://**www.bbc.co.uk/news/**technology-**20237531<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-**20237531>
>>>>>>> <http://**www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-**20237531<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20237531>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > The words "four more years", coupled with a photo of Barack and
>>>>>>> Michelle
>>>>>>> > Obama embraced in a hug, have become the most retweeted Twitter
>>>>>>> post
>>>>>>> ever.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Fahd
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > ______________________________******__________________________**
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From kabani.asif at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 01:49:06 2012
From: kabani.asif at gmail.com (Kabani)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 10:49:06 +0400
Subject: [governance] Great speech, Carlos!
In-Reply-To: <CA+YNoKh88f=A0sHBYJNprTQ45BpFTybB9wOV1Q1jXEH8Y-WQMQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKh88f=A0sHBYJNprTQ45BpFTybB9wOV1Q1jXEH8Y-WQMQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOzvoR0-hMQkc+yBbNw6tDDqMb8fY90KQ-BTFDf-d3h2AzxKXA@mail.gmail.com>

+1 Good Speech

On 7 November 2012 10:44, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:

> Dear Carlos,
>
> I hear many people really liked your speech yesterday, at the opening
> session. In fact, one of the government reps told me this morning it
> was THE BEST among all speeches of all guest speakers.
>
> I also was asked to get File version of your speech, Carlos, to be shared.
>
> To confess, I was not able to listen you since I was have some
> preparatory meeting for Emerging Issues main session, so I also need
> your speech in print/file. I am sure there are many others like me.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> izumi
>
>
> --
>                      >> Izumi Aizu <<
> Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
> Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
> Japan
> www.anr.org
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
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>


-- 
*Follow me @*
<https://www.facebook.com/kabani.asif>
<https://twitter.com/Kabaniasif><http://www.linkedin.com/in/kabani><http://www.youtube.com/user/asifkabani>

* **Before you print think about the** **ENVIRONMENT*
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From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 02:13:23 2012
From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 09:13:23 +0200
Subject: [governance] Good Bye .DOTAFRICA: ICANN Approves the Change
 Request Made by DotConnectAfrica Trust for Its .Africa
In-Reply-To: <CAP2ohHGnE6Y2ZpTJhTJ8DX2DipTN9X_oJ4b=1hzkexORcLHSsg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E1TVlJ2-0004V3-5L@frodo.hserus.net> <CAP2ohHE5UDxtXWqud4MR7yvUSUymsZ4vBdEe_HqFXAs=JvsAvw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20121107081316.GA28721@hserus.net> <CAP2ohHGK7LYNO82=y6T9RAnxPSVtPg6_3VD3-auRS7_Om-5ONQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACAaNxgzV9raFL_q=H5WMM_cwpQcw30VydD8R3JSmvzzpjyvJw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABBOhxqd2s50aCAYGkiL8p1E9bdzW5MRaSKACVktssDq_3RxGg@mail.gmail.com> <CAP2ohHGnE6Y2ZpTJhTJ8DX2DipTN9X_oJ4b=1hzkexORcLHSsg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABBOhxrSM6JFXsNswybVW+0xg7RgEop7uZ1134tiT4GMBMrUPw@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you Gideon.

On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 7:52 AM, Gideon <gideonrop at gmail.com> wrote:

> Indeed Fahd, .africa is a fireworks!  Public interest with who?   I hope
> you do not mean with the AU!
>

Public interest of the African community at-large. I hope the AU act in the
best public interest as well and set aside any personal agendas.

Fahd
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From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 02:17:30 2012
From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 09:17:30 +0200
Subject: [governance] Good Bye .DOTAFRICA: ICANN Approves the Change
 Request Made by DotConnectAfrica Trust for Its .Africa
In-Reply-To: <DFB7B46F-CB3F-4B56-B047-A62DE8E1E873@hserus.net>
References: <E1TVlJ2-0004V3-5L@frodo.hserus.net> <CAP2ohHE5UDxtXWqud4MR7yvUSUymsZ4vBdEe_HqFXAs=JvsAvw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20121107081316.GA28721@hserus.net> <CAP2ohHGK7LYNO82=y6T9RAnxPSVtPg6_3VD3-auRS7_Om-5ONQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACAaNxgzV9raFL_q=H5WMM_cwpQcw30VydD8R3JSmvzzpjyvJw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABBOhxqd2s50aCAYGkiL8p1E9bdzW5MRaSKACVktssDq_3RxGg@mail.gmail.com> <DFB7B46F-CB3F-4B56-B047-A62DE8E1E873@hserus.net>
Message-ID: <CABBOhxpVFrvAKWk8YkTinnvfyX3e1jq8GkijhQWxmXLoqUWNAg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 12:46 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian
<suresh at hserus.net>wrote:

> (snip)
>


> Even the TLD by itself has little or no relevance in the larger scheme of
> things, any more than say .museum has for museums the world over, or its
> geographic predecessor .asia has had for Asia (moderately, but not too
> popular)
>

I agree. In fact, around 1% of the domain names registered at a global
level originate from Africa (or at least have African addresses tied to
them).

So this all boils down to how the folks at .africa define the success of
the TLD in terms of numbers.

Fahd
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From p.fehlinger at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 02:20:04 2012
From: p.fehlinger at gmail.com (Paul Fehlinger)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 11:20:04 +0400
Subject: [governance] Change of Schedule: What is the Geography of
 Cyberspace WS -> Fr. 2:30 pm /Room 4
Message-ID: <89BB4B40-476C-4304-8360-6506AAD42694@gmail.com>

Dear all,

The Workshop 171"What is the Geography of Cyberspace" has been shifted to Friday, 2:30 pm in Room 4. 

For more information: http://www.internetjurisdiction.net/internet-jurisdiction-workshops-at-the-internet-governance-forum-2012/

Best,
Paul 
____________________
Paul Fehlinger
Internet & Jurisdiction
Project Manager
+33 (0) 66 69 23 84 8
fehlinger at internetjurisdiction.net 
www.internetjurisdiction.net
Twitter: @IJurisdiction
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From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 02:37:07 2012
From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 09:37:07 +0200
Subject: [governance] Barack Obama Victory Tweet Most Retweeted Ever
In-Reply-To: <8BB9DF1C-7A09-4C12-A790-35A8F3A7E801@hserus.net>
References: <CABBOhxoThzJ1KtVpOxKuoQUSv9pq5Gy4dcrb8AsSJhAahm=erw@mail.gmail.com>
 <8BB9DF1C-7A09-4C12-A790-35A8F3A7E801@hserus.net>
Message-ID: <CABBOhxqar7wBitf3UFNjfb+HWoyZhYV761E9kJp60BeyySOksg@mail.gmail.com>

Suresh, I read the entire thread of e-mails before I wrote my reply to you.
There are two things to note in the article:

   1. The words "*... most retweeted ever*" was mentioned. This is social
   networking; a main pillar of IG.
   2. The article goes on to say that "*Well over half a million users of
   image-sharing social network Instagram posted images of themselves voting.
   However, US law experts were quick to warn voters that in some states it is
   in fact illegal to take and share such images*". This relates to
   openness; mainly privacy and to some extent IP.

When a person joins a mailing list, they have to expect the varying volume
of traffic. I share on the mailing list articles that I believe to be
within the boundaries of IG and AFTER READING IT. If that does not suit
one, as Charity mentioned "*One can hit the delete button*".

In the end, it is always not easy to satisfy everyone's desires.
I hope that clarifies your concerns.

Fahd

On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 12:41 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian
<suresh at hserus.net>wrote:

> May I ask your opinion on how or why a photo of a couple hugging is anyway
> remotely related to igov?
>
> --srs (iPad)
>
> On 08-Nov-2012, at 1:26, "Fahd A. Batayneh" <fahd.batayneh at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20237531
>
> The words "four more years", coupled with a photo of Barack and Michelle
> Obama embraced in a hug, have become the most retweeted Twitter post ever.
>
> Fahd
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
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From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 02:42:56 2012
From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 09:42:56 +0200
Subject: [governance] Barack Obama Victory Tweet Most Retweeted Ever
In-Reply-To: <E1TWEkm-00033j-GH@frodo.hserus.net>
References: <E1TWEkm-00033j-GH@frodo.hserus.net>
Message-ID: <CABBOhxq4mJNqPHpXm005FyTrXqrPAuTULcRAdM7=kcGS1RS=AQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 1:09 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net>wrote:

> Well you see, without some commentary about it in this context from the
> original poster, it is practically impossible to tell the difference
> between that and idle forwarding of random news articles.
>

Mind you, my original post did have the comment "The words "four more
years", coupled with a photo of Barack and Michelle Obama embraced in a
hug, have become the most retweeted Twitter post ever."

Fahd
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From gurstein at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 02:51:54 2012
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 11:51:54 +0400
Subject: [governance] AT&T to expand service, but wants FCC regulation
 dropped
Message-ID: <016701cdbd85$edeaf1f0$c9c0d5d0$@gmail.com>

Hmmmm... but is it the case that what's good for AT&T is good for the rest
of the (WCIT) world and if so where is the global equivalent of the AT&T's
$14 billion going to come from?

M


http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/11/att-is-glad-to-expand-service-but-wa
nts-pesky-fcc-regulations-dropped/

AT&T is glad to expand service, but wants pesky FCC regulations dropped Firm
devotes $14B to wireless and U-Verse, while pushing deregulation with FCC.

by Cyrus Farivar - Nov 7 2012, 6:00pm EST

On Wednesday, AT&T announced a plan to invest $14 billion in expanding its
wireless and U-Verse service around the country. At the same time, the
company submitted a petition to the Federal Communications Commission asking
for an end to the "conventional public-utility-style regulation."

AT&T said it would expand its fiber-to-the-node (FTTN) product to 22 states,
which would include 75 percent of "customer locations." The rest of the
country would be served by the expansion of its 4G LTE network, which AT&T
says would reach 300 million Americans (nearly the whole country) by the end
of 2014.

With the company's announcement, it also filed a request for regulations
restricting AT&T's business to be dropped. The document calls AT&T's new
investments a step towards the National Broadband Plan.

"AT&T believes that this regulatory experiment will show that conventional
public-utility-style regulation is no longer necessary or appropriate in the
emerging all-IP ecosystem," the company wrote in its FCC filing on
Wednesday.

"Customers are abandoning obsolescent [time-division multiplexing] services,
but AT&T and other incumbent carriers still must be prepared to serve every
household in their service territories on demand. Thus, the costs of
maintaining those networks remain in place, and every loss of another
customer increases the average cost per line of serving the customers that
remain."

Industry watchers have pointed out AT&T now seems less than genuine with
regulators. The company claimed that without being able to acquire T-Mobile
it would not be able to expand its LTE offerings.
According to the AT&T's most recent financial data (PDF), the company
receives about three times as much quarterly revenue from wireless
($15 billion) as it does from traditional wireline voice service ($5.5
billion).

"They painted the stakes as dire as possible when they were trying to buy
T-Mobile, but the fact is AT&T had to match its competitors in 4G market
roll-outs," said Ken Rehben, an analyst at Yankee Group, told CNNMoney.
Deregulation incentive

Some industry watchers are worried such a move would make an end-run around
existing regulations that require a baseline level of phone service under
federal law. If the FCC heeds AT&T's advice, some fear there will be even
further entrenchment of the dominant wired carriers, like AT&T and Verizon,
who are pushing more profitable wireless services.

"For 100 years we've had the idea that everyone has a phone line,"
said Susan Crawford, a visiting professor at the Harvard Kennedy School and
a telecom law expert. It's the principle known as "common carriage," she
told Ars.

"Today the general purpose network is a fiber-to-the-home (FTTH).
That's what's going on in Europe and Asia, but we seem to be abandoning that
concept. Instead, we're allowing private carriers to choose who has to rely
on wireless and who gets a wire and who gets what type of wire. The whole
system has been turned upside down."

Still, both the FCC and telecom watchdog group Public Knowledge praised
AT&T's announcement.

"AT&T's announcement of billions of dollars in new investment in wired and
wireless broadband networks is proof positive that the climate for
investment and innovation in the US communications sector is healthy,"
said Julius Genachowski, the FCC chairman, in a statement. "Today's
announcement adds to nearly $200 billion of investment in wireless and
wireline broadband networks since 2009, and powerful growth in the Internet
economy."

Bruce Kushnick, a telecom analyst at NewNetworks, likened AT&T's move to
"extortion." He argued the $14 billion investment was a quid pro quo to
sweeten the move to further deregulation-and he anticipates further lobbying
from AT&T to Congress in 2013.

"The letter that they filed says they want to get rid of regulation, and
there will be an attack by AT&T and Verizon to get rid of all regulation in
Congress probably at the beginning of next year," he told Ars. "Their goal
is to take the letter and to extend it through Congress. What we need is a
wireless and wireline to have an open utility, and let customers choose
whatever provider and whatever services they want. If we don't do that, we
will fall behind."


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From suresh at hserus.net  Thu Nov  8 03:35:58 2012
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 00:35:58 -0800
Subject: [governance] Good Bye .DOTAFRICA: ICANN Approves the Change
 Request Made by DotConnectAfrica Trust for Its .Africa
In-Reply-To: <CABBOhxpVFrvAKWk8YkTinnvfyX3e1jq8GkijhQWxmXLoqUWNAg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E1TVlJ2-0004V3-5L@frodo.hserus.net>
 <CAP2ohHE5UDxtXWqud4MR7yvUSUymsZ4vBdEe_HqFXAs=JvsAvw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20121107081316.GA28721@hserus.net>
 <CAP2ohHGK7LYNO82=y6T9RAnxPSVtPg6_3VD3-auRS7_Om-5ONQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACAaNxgzV9raFL_q=H5WMM_cwpQcw30VydD8R3JSmvzzpjyvJw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABBOhxqd2s50aCAYGkiL8p1E9bdzW5MRaSKACVktssDq_3RxGg@mail.gmail.com>
 <DFB7B46F-CB3F-4B56-B047-A62DE8E1E873@hserus.net>
 <CABBOhxpVFrvAKWk8YkTinnvfyX3e1jq8GkijhQWxmXLoqUWNAg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121108083558.GA22514@hserus.net>

Success in terms of numbers? It depends on how much their marketing skills
match their skills in high decibel politicking. Convincing companies with
.eg, .ng, .za etc domains to get themselves .africa in addition / as a
substitute may or may not be easy.  They could certainly learn from .asia's
experience I'd say.

Fahd A. Batayneh [08/11/12 09:17 +0200]:
>On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 12:46 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian
><suresh at hserus.net>wrote:
>
>> (snip)
>>
>
>
>> Even the TLD by itself has little or no relevance in the larger scheme of
>> things, any more than say .museum has for museums the world over, or its
>> geographic predecessor .asia has had for Asia (moderately, but not too
>> popular)
>>
>
>I agree. In fact, around 1% of the domain names registered at a global
>level originate from Africa (or at least have African addresses tied to
>them).
>
>So this all boils down to how the folks at .africa define the success of
>the TLD in terms of numbers.
>
>Fahd

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From suresh at hserus.net  Thu Nov  8 03:41:40 2012
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 00:41:40 -0800
Subject: [governance] Barack Obama Victory Tweet Most Retweeted Ever
In-Reply-To: <CABBOhxqar7wBitf3UFNjfb+HWoyZhYV761E9kJp60BeyySOksg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABBOhxoThzJ1KtVpOxKuoQUSv9pq5Gy4dcrb8AsSJhAahm=erw@mail.gmail.com>
 <8BB9DF1C-7A09-4C12-A790-35A8F3A7E801@hserus.net>
 <CABBOhxqar7wBitf3UFNjfb+HWoyZhYV761E9kJp60BeyySOksg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121108084140.GC22514@hserus.net>

Sure. Please remember, that's the internet. As is, for example, facebook
forwards of icanhazcheezburger memes.

Internet governance on the other hand is rather more specific.

Please see the examples below for example. I'd love to be corrected

Is it egovernance (automation of government policy and procedure to
introduce ICT into it)?  Not exactly, that's an entirelly separate
disclipine

Is it a discussion of internet memes, trends etc (or of general politics or
other news that just happens to take place on the internet)? While that's a
massive use case for the internet, and an excellent reason to keep the
internet open, it is not internet governance.

Is it a discussion on the key mechanisms through which internet related
coordination takes place, and internet resources (IP addresses and domains)
are allocated?  Yes. Definitely

Is it a discussion on the application of public policy and national /
international law and its enforcement in an internet context? Yes.
Definitely


Fahd A. Batayneh [08/11/12 09:37 +0200]:
>Suresh, I read the entire thread of e-mails before I wrote my reply to you.
>There are two things to note in the article:
>
>   1. The words "*... most retweeted ever*" was mentioned. This is social
>   networking; a main pillar of IG.
>   2. The article goes on to say that "*Well over half a million users of
>   image-sharing social network Instagram posted images of themselves voting.
>   However, US law experts were quick to warn voters that in some states it is
>   in fact illegal to take and share such images*". This relates to
>   openness; mainly privacy and to some extent IP.
>
>When a person joins a mailing list, they have to expect the varying volume
>of traffic. I share on the mailing list articles that I believe to be
>within the boundaries of IG and AFTER READING IT. If that does not suit
>one, as Charity mentioned "*One can hit the delete button*".
>
>In the end, it is always not easy to satisfy everyone's desires.
>I hope that clarifies your concerns.
>
>Fahd
>
>On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 12:41 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian
><suresh at hserus.net>wrote:
>
>> May I ask your opinion on how or why a photo of a couple hugging is anyway
>> remotely related to igov?
>>
>> --srs (iPad)
>>
>> On 08-Nov-2012, at 1:26, "Fahd A. Batayneh" <fahd.batayneh at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20237531
>>
>> The words "four more years", coupled with a photo of Barack and Michelle
>> Obama embraced in a hug, have become the most retweeted Twitter post ever.
>>
>> Fahd
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
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>>
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>>

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From rudi.vansnick at isoc.be  Thu Nov  8 04:54:51 2012
From: rudi.vansnick at isoc.be (Rudi Vansnick)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 10:54:51 +0100
Subject: [governance] IGF2012, Remote Connection
In-Reply-To: <509B2710.1030203@gih.com>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAANnlFloumCxMuwwBwSZjX53CgAAAEAAAAHf5BZiUjixMlLGpIsdOWgQBAAAAAA==@gmail.com> <CALrvCLBFn9nYJrRqA193AThPN3xc6CH9SK2D7HTjvARp_pwncg@mail.gmail.com> <1352228143.46381.YahooMailNeo@web160505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1352229400.49284.YahooMailNeo@web160502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <CALrvCLCfdLa1E15T7mGHRM0wDvQS2PSGf_7+jPTphzq8+C-Ggg@mail.gmail.com> <509B2710.1030203@gih.com>
Message-ID: <7C6E7ADF-66A2-4EC8-BEE8-A09043937BAF@isoc.be>

I've used the remote participation tools daily (till today). The webex allows to participate through the chat and the Q&A windows, but the webcast is always giving me the same error.
If I want to see the room I have to use the webcast tool (http://webcast.igf2012.com) , which is of course not fully synchronised with the webex session. From room 6 till room 9 the audio in the webcast is very low. With the volume on the max here I can hardly understand the speakers.

The descriptions of the rooms workshops in the webcast window is not updated and gives sometimes wrong session information.

Rudi Vansnick
------------------ Internet Society Belgium  ---------------------
President - CEO                             Tel +32/(0)9/329.39.16
rudi.vansnick at isoc.be            Mobile +32/(0)475/28.16.32
Dendermondesteenweg 143            B-9070 Destelbergen
www.internetsociety.be         "The Internet is for everyone"

Op 8-nov-2012, om 04:29 heeft Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond het volgende geschreven:

> I suppose rp has probably been flooded with enquiries.
> Since the beginning of the week, I saw Bernard run around trying to fix
> things.
> The remote participation computers running Webex are all wired in and
> appear to work well but the network sometimes goes through some periods
> of being very slow. This is when the WIFI works and guess what, the WIFI
> does not work well at all. In fact, I have spent complete afternoons
> without WIFI. (not enough IPv4 addresses to allocate -- and no IPv6
> connectivity at all in case you ask)
> 
> Whilst so far, I have been super impressed with the host country, this
> is, in my opinion, the poorest Internet connectivity we've had at the
> venue in recent IGFs. <sigh>
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Olivier
> 
> On 07/11/2012 00:04, Norbert Bollow wrote:
>> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 8:16 PM, shaila mistry <shailam at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Hi everyone
>>> I too have tried several times to participate. Each time I am sent a
>>> different route of downloads and logins , finally leading to a dead end.
>>> Please advise what can be done ?
>>> Shaila Rao Mistry
>> Have you tried contacting
>> 
>> "Remote Participation general help" <rp at intgovforum.org>
>> 
>> ?
>> 
>> Do they respond?
>> 
>> If yes, what are they saying?
>> 
>> If no, let us know, so that we can push locally for those help email
>> addresses to be handled in a meaningful way.
>> 
>> In the long run, what we need is funding to put a competent person in
>> charge of ensuring in an ongoing manner (year after year) that IGF
>> remote participation is made available in a way that can be expected
>> to work (which presupposes learning from what went wrong in earlier
>> years, and it presupposes serious testing well before the first day of
>> the IGF). It is simply unacceptable for an entirely new technical team
>> to put in charge of remote participation every year, and the remote
>> participation infrastructure again and again being so absurdly
>> unreliable.)
>> 
>> Greetings,
>> Norbert
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD
> http://www.gih.com/ocl.html
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


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From sana.pryhod at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 05:43:48 2012
From: sana.pryhod at gmail.com (Oksana Prykhodko)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 14:43:48 +0400
Subject: [governance] invitation to WS 167 Friday 9:00 Room 5 "Understanding
 of multistakeholderism in quazi-democratic countries"
Message-ID: <CA+C8XCL3=CAt6ejONgKoLtMDRwdP6-hWbDtJ_nL3QBfMR_uVFQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,

I am sorry for late invitation.

Please come tomorrow to our workshop to discuss threats of inadequate
implementation and wrong understanding of multistakeholderism.

Friday, 9:00, Room 5

Moderator
Oksana Prykhodko

Panelists:
Wolfgang Kleinwachter
Sebastien Bachollet
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
Olga Cavalli
Paul Rendek
Martin Boyle
Naveed Ul-Haq

Best regards,
Oksana

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From gate.one205 at yahoo.fr  Thu Nov  8 06:18:27 2012
From: gate.one205 at yahoo.fr (Jean-Yves GATETE)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 11:18:27 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [governance] IGF2012, Remote Connection
In-Reply-To: <7C6E7ADF-66A2-4EC8-BEE8-A09043937BAF@isoc.be>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAANnlFloumCxMuwwBwSZjX53CgAAAEAAAAHf5BZiUjixMlLGpIsdOWgQBAAAAAA==@gmail.com> <CALrvCLBFn9nYJrRqA193AThPN3xc6CH9SK2D7HTjvARp_pwncg@mail.gmail.com> <1352228143.46381.YahooMailNeo@web160505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1352229400.49284.YahooMailNeo@web160502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <CALrvCLCfdLa1E15T7mGHRM0wDvQS2PSGf_7+jPTphzq8+C-Ggg@mail.gmail.com> <509B2710.1030203@gih.com> <7C6E7ADF-66A2-4EC8-BEE8-A09043937BAF@isoc.be>
Message-ID: <1352373507.20428.YahooMailNeo@web172501.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>

Hi all,
as Mr Rudi, I ve been following via that webcast tool too. I have the same problem too and the Room10 is not working either. 
 
Wishing you all the best,
 
Jean-Yves GATETE

 

________________________________
 De : Rudi Vansnick <rudi.vansnick at isoc.be>
À : Crepin-Leblond Olivier <ocl at gih.com> 
Cc : governance at lists.igcaucus.org 
Envoyé le : Jeudi 8 novembre 2012 10h54
Objet : Re: [governance] IGF2012, Remote Connection
  
I've used the remote participation tools daily (till today). The webex allows to participate through the chat and the Q&A windows, but the webcast is always giving me the same error.
If I want to see the room I have to use the webcast tool (http://webcast.igf2012.com/) , which is of course not fully synchronised with the webex session. From room 6 till room 9 the audio in the webcast is very low. With the volume on the max here I can hardly understand the speakers.

The descriptions of the rooms workshops in the webcast window is not updated and gives sometimes wrong session information.

Rudi Vansnick
------------------ Internet Society Belgium  ---------------------
President - CEO                             Tel +32/(0)9/329.39.16
rudi.vansnick at isoc.be            Mobile +32/(0)475/28.16.32
Dendermondesteenweg 143            B-9070 Destelbergen
www.internetsociety.be         "The Internet is for everyone"

Op 8-nov-2012, om 04:29 heeft Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond het volgende geschreven:

> I suppose rp has probably been flooded with enquiries.
> Since the beginning of the week, I saw Bernard run around trying to fix
> things.
> The remote participation computers running Webex are all wired in and
> appear to work well but the network sometimes goes through some periods
> of being very slow. This is when the WIFI works and guess what, the WIFI
> does not work well at all. In fact, I have spent complete afternoons
> without WIFI. (not enough IPv4 addresses to allocate -- and no IPv6
> connectivity at all in case you ask)
> 
> Whilst so far, I have been super impressed with the host country, this
> is, in my opinion, the poorest Internet connectivity we've had at the
> venue in recent IGFs. <sigh>
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Olivier
> 
> On 07/11/2012 00:04, Norbert Bollow wrote:
>> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 8:16 PM, shaila mistry <shailam at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Hi everyone
>>> I too have tried several times to participate. Each time I am sent a
>>> different route of downloads and logins , finally leading to a dead end.
>>> Please advise what can be done ?
>>> Shaila Rao Mistry
>> Have you tried contacting
>> 
>> "Remote Participation general help" <rp at intgovforum.org>
>> 
>> ?
>> 
>> Do they respond?
>> 
>> If yes, what are they saying?
>> 
>> If no, let us know, so that we can push locally for those help email
>> addresses to be handled in a meaningful way.
>> 
>> In the long run, what we need is funding to put a competent person in
>> charge of ensuring in an ongoing manner (year after year) that IGF
>> remote participation is made available in a way that can be expected
>> to work (which presupposes learning from what went wrong in earlier
>> years, and it presupposes serious testing well before the first day of
>> the IGF). It is simply unacceptable for an entirely new technical team
>> to put in charge of remote participation every year, and the remote
>> participation infrastructure again and again being so absurdly
>> unreliable.)
>> 
>> Greetings,
>> Norbert
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD
> http://www.gih.com/ocl.html
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t



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From nne75 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  8 06:24:03 2012
From: nne75 at yahoo.com (Nnenna)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 03:24:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [governance] Invitation: Africa IGF discussions Friday 11-12:30
  and 2:30 - 4PM (IGF Baku)
Message-ID: <1352373843.78021.YahooMailNeo@web120102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Dear all,
 
This is to cordially invite us to the sessions that the Africa Internet Governance Forum will be hosting during the 7th IGF in Baku.
There are 2 sessions of 90 minutesm beginning from 11 AM
 
I have  attached the programme here so you can choose the best timing for you
 
Best regards
 
Nnenna



Nnenna  Nwakanma |  Founder and CEO, NNENNA.ORG  |  Consultants
Information | Communications | Technology and Events | for Development
Cote d'Ivoire (+225)| Tel: 225 27144 | Fax  224 26471 |Mob. 07416820
Ghana: +233 249561345| Nigeria: +234 8101887065| http://www.nnenna.org 
nnenna at nnenna.org| @nnenna | Skype - nnenna75 | nnennaorg.blogspot.com
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From ias_pk at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  8 06:38:53 2012
From: ias_pk at yahoo.com (Imran Ahmed Shah)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 03:38:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [governance] IGF2012, Remote Connection
In-Reply-To: <1352373507.20428.YahooMailNeo@web172501.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAANnlFloumCxMuwwBwSZjX53CgAAAEAAAAHf5BZiUjixMlLGpIsdOWgQBAAAAAA==@gmail.com> <CALrvCLBFn9nYJrRqA193AThPN3xc6CH9SK2D7HTjvARp_pwncg@mail.gmail.com> <1352228143.46381.YahooMailNeo@web160505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1352229400.49284.YahooMailNeo@web160502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <CALrvCLCfdLa1E15T7mGHRM0wDvQS2PSGf_7+jPTphzq8+C-Ggg@mail.gmail.com> <509B2710.1030203@gih.com> <7C6E7ADF-66A2-4EC8-BEE8-A09043937BAF@isoc.be> <1352373507.20428.YahooMailNeo@web172501.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1352374733.87066.YahooMailNeo@web125103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hi all, 

I was logged into Room #10 remotely, webex but there was no other attendee.
The webex Schedule (as on 6th and 7th) has single first day pre-meeting of 5th Nov but after refreshing promt appear for login and after login it connected me Room #  7th Nov meeting.

I keep trying to obtain response from Moderator (Ms Nina), but could not established interactive response, and I do not know that have she read my text input or not. I think Moderator was too busy in the meeting physically and given zero importance to single Remote Participant. So, RP was useless.

Regards

Imran
(for IGFPAK)







>________________________________
> From: Jean-Yves GATETE <gate.one205 at yahoo.fr>
>To: "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>; Rudi Vansnick <rudi.vansnick at isoc.be> 
>Sent: Thursday, 8 November 2012, 3:18
>Subject: Re: [governance] IGF2012, Remote Connection
> 
>
>Hi all,
>as Mr Rudi, I ve been following via that webcast tool too. I have the same problem too and the Room10 is not working either. 
> 
>Wishing you all the best,
> 
>Jean-Yves GATETE
>
>
>De : Rudi Vansnick <rudi.vansnick at isoc.be>
>À : Crepin-Leblond Olivier <ocl at gih.com> 
>Cc : governance at lists.igcaucus.org 
>Envoyé le : Jeudi 8 novembre 2012 10h54
>Objet : Re: [governance] IGF2012, Remote Connection
> 
>I've used the remote participation tools daily (till today). The webex allows to participate through the chat and the Q&A windows, but the webcast is always giving me the same error.
>If I want to see the room I have to use the webcast tool (http://webcast.igf2012.com/) , which is of course not fully synchronised with the webex session. From room 6 till room 9 the audio in the webcast is very low. With the volume on the max here I can hardly understand the speakers.
>
>The descriptions of the rooms workshops in the webcast window is not updated and gives sometimes wrong session information.
>
>Rudi
 Vansnick
>------------------ Internet Society Belgium  ---------------------
>President - CEO                             Tel +32/(0)9/329.39.16
>rudi.vansnick at isoc.be            Mobile +32/(0)475/28.16.32
>Dendermondesteenweg 143            B-9070 Destelbergen
>www.internetsociety.be         "The Internet is for everyone"
>
>Op 8-nov-2012, om 04:29 heeft Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond het volgende geschreven:
>
>> I suppose rp has probably been flooded with enquiries.
>> Since the beginning of the week, I saw Bernard run around trying to fix
>> things.
>> The remote participation computers running Webex are all wired in and
>> appear to work well but the network sometimes goes through
 some periods
>> of being very slow. This is when the WIFI works and guess what, the WIFI
>> does not work well at all. In fact, I have spent complete afternoons
>> without WIFI. (not enough IPv4 addresses to allocate -- and no IPv6
>> connectivity at all in case you ask)
>> 
>> Whilst so far, I have been super impressed with the host country, this
>> is, in my opinion, the poorest Internet connectivity we've had at the
>> venue in recent IGFs. <sigh>
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> Olivier
>> 
>> On 07/11/2012 00:04, Norbert Bollow wrote:
>>> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 8:16 PM, shaila mistry <shailam at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi everyone
>>>> I too have tried several times to participate. Each time I am sent a
>>>> different route of downloads and logins , finally
 leading to a dead end.
>>>> Please advise what can be done ?
>>>> Shaila Rao Mistry
>>> Have you tried contacting
>>> 
>>> "Remote Participation general help" <rp at intgovforum.org>
>>> 
>>> ?
>>> 
>>> Do they respond?
>>> 
>>> If yes, what are they saying?
>>> 
>>> If no, let us know, so that we can push locally for those help email
>>> addresses to be handled in a meaningful way.
>>> 
>>> In the long run, what we need is funding to put a competent person in
>>> charge of ensuring in an ongoing manner (year after year) that IGF
>>> remote participation is made available in a way that can be expected
>>> to work (which presupposes learning from what went wrong in earlier
>>> years, and it presupposes serious
 testing well before the first day of
>>> the IGF). It is simply unacceptable for an entirely new technical team
>>> to put in charge of remote participation every year, and the remote
>>> participation infrastructure again and again being so absurdly
>>> unreliable.)
>>> 
>>> Greetings,
>>> Norbert
>>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD
>> http://www.gih.com/ocl.html
>> 
>> 
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> 
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> 
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>
>____________________________________________________________
>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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>To be removed from the list, visit:
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>
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>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
>Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>
>____________________________________________________________
>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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>To be removed from the list, visit:
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>
>For all other list information and functions, see:
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>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
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From dogwallah at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 06:41:35 2012
From: dogwallah at gmail.com (McTim)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 06:41:35 -0500
Subject: [governance] Barack Obama Victory Tweet Most Retweeted Ever
In-Reply-To: <CAEP5zKSgQZ3OEwcYNGGQoD2sFp15Co51daUzupoBy8fPkjN7aw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E1TWEkm-00033j-GH@frodo.hserus.net> <CABDWBFoT4R2CbQ2Q-tT5Y_6wj+LSP0A7wqkBy3bRCWO5acgK0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20121108051446.GA17445@hserus.net> <CAEP5zKRMQgXn=cyoPshRO4abGMFSj0i9z-t1+dL=pmhXYtvhew@mail.gmail.com>
 <20121108053415.GA17621@hserus.net> <CAEP5zKSgQZ3OEwcYNGGQoD2sFp15Co51daUzupoBy8fPkjN7aw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACAaNxjWCV=uT+-EW+2QxAJ=CdneQw26R=hATwG=baYPsRzhZg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 12:41 AM, Chaitanya Dhareshwar
<chaitanyabd at gmail.com> wrote:
> "Is going to" - no because he didnt get the top job. "Would he have done
> something different?" possibly - but we won't know by speculating. IMHO yes
> Romney would have approached the point differently.

ISOC sponsored a pre-election meting on Internet and telecoms policy.

There is little significant difference between the two parties on WCIT issues.

>


-- 
Cheers,

McTim
"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A
route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel

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From dogwallah at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 07:47:04 2012
From: dogwallah at gmail.com (McTim)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 07:47:04 -0500
Subject: [governance] =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hamadoun_Tour=E9_Op-Ed_in_Wired_+?=
In-Reply-To: <007e01cdbd6e$55945890$00bd09b0$@gmail.com>
References: <007e01cdbd6e$55945890$00bd09b0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACAaNxhDUb-rOU-KuHVqWVb7ejjbHdCW2odVVd_tUNE2Q0sFTA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 12:02 AM, michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> With over 90 percent of the world’s people now within reach of mobile
> phones, the challenge today is bringing internet access to the two-thirds of
> the world’s population that is still offline. This challenge is compounded
> by the need to ensure connectivity is affordable and safe for all.
>
>
>
> and then
>
>
>
> The conference will chart a globally agreed-upon roadmap that offers future
> connectivity to all, and ensures sufficient communications capacity to cope
> with the exponential growth in voice, video, and data. The sole focus of the
> event is making regulations valuable to all stakeholders, creating a robust
> pillar to support future growth in global communications.
>
>
>
> and
>
>
>
> The conference will address issues that relate to improving online access
> and connectivity for everyone.
>
>
>
> Surely these are appropriate goals for Civil Society as well

spot on Michael.

I for one don't believe that what HT says the conference is about is
actually what the conference is about, do you?



-- 
Cheers,

McTim
"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A
route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel

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From gurstein at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 08:56:45 2012
From: gurstein at gmail.com (michael gurstein)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 17:56:45 +0400
Subject: [governance] =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hamadoun_Tour=E9_Op-Ed_in_Wired_+?=
In-Reply-To: <CACAaNxhDUb-rOU-KuHVqWVb7ejjbHdCW2odVVd_tUNE2Q0sFTA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <007e01cdbd6e$55945890$00bd09b0$@gmail.com> <CACAaNxhDUb-rOU-KuHVqWVb7ejjbHdCW2odVVd_tUNE2Q0sFTA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <025401cdbdb8$eea475c0$cbed6140$@gmail.com>

McTim,

I have no idea what the conference is "actually about", but even if it is
only camouflage at least he is raising the issue and I don't see any of the
folks who are semi-hysterical around the WCIT talking about anything even
approaching those issues.

At least in the US where AT&T is trying to do a similar deregulatory number
on the FCC they are willing to pay a reasonable price ($14 Billion for
additional connectivity) to get themselves off the regulatory hook.  What
are the folks who are throwing everything but the kitchen sink at the ITU,
offering (except platitudes about the magical wonders of
"competition"--hardly of much use to subsistence farmers in Bangladesh or
Burkina Faso living on $1 per day)?

M

-----Original Message-----
From: McTim [mailto:dogwallah at gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 4:47 PM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; michael gurstein
Subject: Re: [governance] Hamadoun Touré Op-Ed in Wired +

On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 12:02 AM, michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> With over 90 percent of the world’s people now within reach of mobile 
> phones, the challenge today is bringing internet access to the 
> two-thirds of the world’s population that is still offline. This 
> challenge is compounded by the need to ensure connectivity is affordable
and safe for all.
>
> and then
>
> The conference will chart a globally agreed-upon roadmap that offers 
> future connectivity to all, and ensures sufficient communications 
> capacity to cope with the exponential growth in voice, video, and 
> data. The sole focus of the event is making regulations valuable to 
> all stakeholders, creating a robust pillar to support future growth in
global communications.
>
> and
>
> The conference will address issues that relate to improving online 
> access and connectivity for everyone.
>
> Surely these are appropriate goals for Civil Society as well

spot on Michael.

I for one don't believe that what HT says the conference is about is
actually what the conference is about, do you?



--
Cheers,

McTim
"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route
indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel


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From gpaque at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 09:16:29 2012
From: gpaque at gmail.com (Ginger Paque)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 08:16:29 -0600
Subject: [governance] (Year round) Remote participation: reality and
 principles
Message-ID: <CALCecM_PPh-O=g=8O_WEXyBtE2hbkpW8ea9x5xgDb5c49ZiomA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone,

In the IGC we work online year round--always e-participation/remote
participation. It is how we manage to bring together discussions from all
over the world.  It seems that asynchronous mailing list discussions are
often more productive than live meetings!

We will discuss the realities and principles of
remote/online/e-participation in Workshop 52 on Day 4 of the IGF, Friday, 9
November, 11:00 a.m. Baku time, Conference room 9.

Check for the remote participation urls at
http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/remote-participation/connect-now tomorrow.

Please join us at the workshop, and on etherpad to improve the principles.
We will publish the etherpad link and password here later.

See you online!
Best,
Ginger




Ginger (Virginia) Paque

VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu
Diplo Foundation
Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme
www.diplomacy.edu/ig
**
**
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From rguerra at privaterra.org  Thu Nov  8 09:38:39 2012
From: rguerra at privaterra.org (Robert Guerra)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 18:38:39 +0400
Subject: [governance] APC dinner location
Message-ID: <2765030170864580862@unknownmsgid>

Can someone please email me the location of tonight's dinner.

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone
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From nkurunziza1999 at yahoo.fr  Thu Nov  8 09:51:07 2012
From: nkurunziza1999 at yahoo.fr (Jean Paul NKURUNZIZA)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 14:51:07 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [governance] Great speech, Carlos!
In-Reply-To: <509A055C.70401@cgi.br>
References: <CA+YNoKh88f=A0sHBYJNprTQ45BpFTybB9wOV1Q1jXEH8Y-WQMQ@mail.gmail.com> <509A055C.70401@cgi.br>
Message-ID: <1352386267.72138.YahooMailNeo@web133205.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>

Hi Carlos and all
Yes, this was a great speech endeed. 

Well done



 
NKURUNZIZA Jean Paul
TRAINER IN COMPUTING AND INTERNET POLICY


ISOC BURUNDI : VICE PRESIDENT
Réseau des Télécentres Communautaires du Burundi : Président
www.rtcb.bi


Burundi Youth Training Centre : Secrétaire Général
www.bytc.bi


Facebook :  http://www.facebook.com/jeanpaul.nkurunziza
Tel : +257 79 981459


________________________________
 De : Hartmut Richard Glaser <glaser at cgi.br>
À : governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> 
Cc : Carlos A. Afonso <ca at cafonso.ca> 
Envoyé le : Mercredi 7 novembre 2012 8h53
Objet : Re: [governance] Great speech, Carlos!
 

Your Excellencies, Mr Wu Hongbo, Under Secretary General, Undesa, Chairman minister Ali Abatov, Secretary Chengetai Masango, in the name of whom I wish to salute all present authorities; ladies and gentlemen:

I have been assigned the honorable task of speaking in the opening ceremony of this IGF in the name of civil society organizations, social movements and individuals active in Internet governance processes, many of them involved in these processes since the inception of WSIS nearly 10 years ago. Several of them collaborated with me in drafting the following statement.

We believe that the absence of gatekeepers and the open, global communication enabled by the Internet is crucial to realize the promise of Article 19 of the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights. To impose restrictions (legal or otherwise) to the free flow of information is and has always been contrary to the individual human right to freedom of expression.

We therefore oppose efforts to create "national Internets," or to block and filter Internet access in ways that deny individuals access to applications, content and services of their choice.

All attempts to deem certain forms of communication and information illegal and restrict or block them must follow established, transparent, due processes of law and should not involve prior restraint.

We oppose efforts to militarize the Internet, or any actions that would foster a destructive and wasteful cyber arms race among governments or private actors. We consider the covert use of exploits and malware for surveillance or attacks to be criminal regardless of whether they are deployed by governments, private corporations or organized criminals.

We are skeptical of efforts to subordinate the design and use of information and communication technology to "national security" agendas. We believe that Internet security will be achieved primarily at the operational level and that national security and military agendas often work against rather than for users' security needs.

In the processes of policy formulation, we emphasize the need to prioritize dialogue with policy makers over their subordinated law enforcement agencies.

Global governance institutions should not be restricted to states, so we welcome the additional participation in global policy making that multi-stakeholder processes provide. But we caution that multi-stakeholder participation is not an end in itself.

Opening up global governance institutions to additional voices from civil society and business does not by itself ensure that individual rights are adequately protected or that the best substantive policies are developed and enforced.

In the informal spaces created by pluralist institutions, it is possible that powerful governmental and corporate actors can make deals contrary to the interests of Internet users.

Multistakeholder processes, while involving all interest groups, must incorporate and institutionalize concepts of due process, separation of powers and user's inalienable civil and political rights, and governmental decision-making ought to take into account the inputs of all participants of such pluralist processes.

Let us remind ourselves that participation goes beyond representation, and participation in decision-making goes beyond just debates and dialogues.

Regarding the ITR review process to be concluded in Dubai (and here I use the standard terminology the technical community defines to refer to the different components of the network):

We agree that the internet layer and the layers above it (transport layer and applications layer) should not be included in any way in the regulations, while the free flow of Internet packets should be guaranteed in the link layer, in line with network neutrality in which Internet packets are never touched by the operators providing the physical connectivity infrastructure.

Let the Internet flourish freely to the benefit of those who live at its edges, which are all of us. Thank you.

===



On 07/11/12 04:44, Izumi AIZU wrote:
> Dear Carlos,
> 
> I hear many people really liked your speech yesterday, at the opening
> session. In fact, one of the government reps told me this morning it
> was THE BEST among all speeches of all guest speakers.
> 
> I also was asked to get File version of your speech, Carlos, to be shared.
> 
> To confess, I was not able to listen you since I was have some
> preparatory meeting for Emerging Issues main session, so I also need
> your speech in print/file. I am sure there are many others like me.
> 
> Many thanks,
> 
> izumi
> 
> 
> --
>                       >> Izumi Aizu <<
> Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
> Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
> Japan
> www.anr.org
> 



____________________________________________________________
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From gpaque at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 10:08:37 2012
From: gpaque at gmail.com (Ginger Paque)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 09:08:37 -0600
Subject: [governance] Great speech, Carlos!
In-Reply-To: <1352386267.72138.YahooMailNeo@web133205.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
References: <CA+YNoKh88f=A0sHBYJNprTQ45BpFTybB9wOV1Q1jXEH8Y-WQMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <509A055C.70401@cgi.br> <1352386267.72138.YahooMailNeo@web133205.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CALCecM98Yv-mupC3EcJJzmbaOVFKCk76U0WpzJDZPiC-MS2e=A@mail.gmail.com>

I agree, wonderful job, obrigada!!!
Ginger

Ginger (Virginia) Paque

VirginiaP at diplomacy.edu
Diplo Foundation
Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme
www.diplomacy.edu/ig
**
**



On 8 November 2012 08:51, Jean Paul NKURUNZIZA <nkurunziza1999 at yahoo.fr>wrote:

> Hi Carlos and all
> Yes, this was a great speech endeed.
>
> Well done
>
>
> NKURUNZIZA Jean Paul
> TRAINER IN COMPUTING AND INTERNET POLICY
>
> ISOC BURUNDI : VICE PRESIDENT
> Réseau des Télécentres Communautaires du Burundi : Président
> www.rtcb.bi
>
>
> Burundi Youth Training Centre : Secrétaire Général
> www.bytc.bi
>
>
> Facebook :  http://www.facebook.com/jeanpaul.nkurunziza
> Tel : +257 79 981459
>   ------------------------------
> *De :* Hartmut Richard Glaser <glaser at cgi.br>
> *À :* governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org>
> *Cc :* Carlos A. Afonso <ca at cafonso.ca>
> *Envoyé le :* Mercredi 7 novembre 2012 8h53
> *Objet :* Re: [governance] Great speech, Carlos!
>
>
> Your Excellencies, Mr Wu Hongbo, Under Secretary General, Undesa, Chairman
> minister Ali Abatov, Secretary Chengetai Masango, in the name of whom I
> wish to salute all present authorities; ladies and gentlemen:
>
> I have been assigned the honorable task of speaking in the opening
> ceremony of this IGF in the name of civil society organizations, social
> movements and individuals active in Internet governance processes, many of
> them involved in these processes since the inception of WSIS nearly 10
> years ago. Several of them collaborated with me in drafting the following
> statement.
>
> We believe that the absence of gatekeepers and the open, global
> communication enabled by the Internet is crucial to realize the promise of
> Article 19 of the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights. To impose
> restrictions (legal or otherwise) to the free flow of information is and
> has always been contrary to the individual human right to freedom of
> expression.
>
> We therefore oppose efforts to create "national Internets," or to block
> and filter Internet access in ways that deny individuals access to
> applications, content and services of their choice.
>
> All attempts to deem certain forms of communication and information
> illegal and restrict or block them must follow established, transparent,
> due processes of law and should not involve prior restraint.
>
> We oppose efforts to militarize the Internet, or any actions that would
> foster a destructive and wasteful cyber arms race among governments or
> private actors. We consider the covert use of exploits and malware for
> surveillance or attacks to be criminal regardless of whether they are
> deployed by governments, private corporations or organized criminals.
>
> We are skeptical of efforts to subordinate the design and use of
> information and communication technology to "national security" agendas. We
> believe that Internet security will be achieved primarily at the
> operational level and that national security and military agendas often
> work against rather than for users' security needs.
>
> In the processes of policy formulation, we emphasize the need to
> prioritize dialogue with policy makers over their subordinated law
> enforcement agencies.
>
> Global governance institutions should not be restricted to states, so we
> welcome the additional participation in global policy making that
> multi-stakeholder processes provide. But we caution that multi-stakeholder
> participation is not an end in itself.
>
> Opening up global governance institutions to additional voices from civil
> society and business does not by itself ensure that individual rights are
> adequately protected or that the best substantive policies are developed
> and enforced.
>
> In the informal spaces created by pluralist institutions, it is possible
> that powerful governmental and corporate actors can make deals contrary to
> the interests of Internet users.
>
> Multistakeholder processes, while involving all interest groups, must
> incorporate and institutionalize concepts of due process, separation of
> powers and user's inalienable civil and political rights, and governmental
> decision-making ought to take into account the inputs of all participants
> of such pluralist processes.
>
> Let us remind ourselves that participation goes beyond representation, and
> participation in decision-making goes beyond just debates and dialogues.
>
> Regarding the ITR review process to be concluded in Dubai (and here I use
> the standard terminology the technical community defines to refer to the
> different components of the network):
>
> We agree that the internet layer and the layers above it (transport layer
> and applications layer) should not be included in any way in the
> regulations, while the free flow of Internet packets should be guaranteed
> in the link layer, in line with network neutrality in which Internet
> packets are never touched by the operators providing the physical
> connectivity infrastructure.
>
> Let the Internet flourish freely to the benefit of those who live at its
> edges, which are all of us. Thank you.
>
> ===
>
>
>
> On 07/11/12 04:44, Izumi AIZU wrote:
> > Dear Carlos,
> >
> > I hear many people really liked your speech yesterday, at the opening
> > session. In fact, one of the government reps told me this morning it
> > was THE BEST among all speeches of all guest speakers.
> >
> > I also was asked to get File version of your speech, Carlos, to be
> shared.
> >
> > To confess, I was not able to listen you since I was have some
> > preparatory meeting for Emerging Issues main session, so I also need
> > your speech in print/file. I am sure there are many others like me.
> >
> > Many thanks,
> >
> > izumi
> >
> >
> > --
> >                      >> Izumi Aizu <<
> > Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
> > Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
> > Japan
> > www.anr.org
> >
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
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>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
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From lmcknigh at syr.edu  Thu Nov  8 10:20:41 2012
From: lmcknigh at syr.edu (Lee W McKnight)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 15:20:41 +0000
Subject: [governance] AT&T to expand service, but wants FCC regulation
 dropped
In-Reply-To: <016701cdbd85$edeaf1f0$c9c0d5d0$@gmail.com>
References: <016701cdbd85$edeaf1f0$c9c0d5d0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <77A59FC9477004489D44DE7FC6840E7B16A336@SUEX10-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu>

This does relate directly to the telecoms service vs information service - definition - of Internet services, which is of course central to the premise of the ITU having a say on various Internet-related public policy issues at WCIT.

In a nutshell: 

AT&T wants to be regulated as one big ISP, and FCC is saying hey that's cool. 

Rest of world/WCIT may not be quite ready to treat all telecoms as information services/open Internet services. 

Lee

PS: As to $14 billion, money is not the hard part. For example, I suspect 1 billion sub China Mobile could come up with that kind of money, before breakfast, if given new markets to enter. However, there are more than a few regulatory transition issues to deal with, everywhere, first.  

________________________________________
From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] on behalf of michael gurstein [gurstein at gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 2:51 AM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; bestbits at lists.igcaucus.org
Subject: [governance] AT&T to expand service, but wants FCC regulation dropped

Hmmmm... but is it the case that what's good for AT&T is good for the rest
of the (CIT) world and if so where is the global equivalent of the AT&T's
$14 billion going to come from?

M


http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/11/att-is-glad-to-expand-service-but-wa
nts-pesky-fcc-regulations-dropped/

AT&T is glad to expand service, but wants pesky FCC regulations dropped Firm
devotes $14B to wireless and U-Verse, while pushing deregulation with FCC.

by Cyrus Farivar - Nov 7 2012, 6:00pm EST

On Wednesday, AT&T announced a plan to invest $14 billion in expanding its
wireless and U-Verse service around the country. At the same time, the
company submitted a petition to the Federal Communications Commission asking
for an end to the "conventional public-utility-style regulation."

AT&T said it would expand its fiber-to-the-node (FTTN) product to 22 states,
which would include 75 percent of "customer locations." The rest of the
country would be served by the expansion of its 4G LTE network, which AT&T
says would reach 300 million Americans (nearly the whole country) by the end
of 2014.

With the company's announcement, it also filed a request for regulations
restricting AT&T's business to be dropped. The document calls AT&T's new
investments a step towards the National Broadband Plan.

"AT&T believes that this regulatory experiment will show that conventional
public-utility-style regulation is no longer necessary or appropriate in the
emerging all-IP ecosystem," the company wrote in its FCC filing on
Wednesday.

"Customers are abandoning obsolescent [time-division multiplexing] services,
but AT&T and other incumbent carriers still must be prepared to serve every
household in their service territories on demand. Thus, the costs of
maintaining those networks remain in place, and every loss of another
customer increases the average cost per line of serving the customers that
remain."

Industry watchers have pointed out AT&T now seems less than genuine with
regulators. The company claimed that without being able to acquire T-Mobile
it would not be able to expand its LTE offerings.
According to the AT&T's most recent financial data (PDF), the company
receives about three times as much quarterly revenue from wireless
($15 billion) as it does from traditional wireline voice service ($5.5
billion).

"They painted the stakes as dire as possible when they were trying to buy
T-Mobile, but the fact is AT&T had to match its competitors in 4G market
roll-outs," said Ken Rehben, an analyst at Yankee Group, told CNNMoney.
Deregulation incentive

Some industry watchers are worried such a move would make an end-run around
existing regulations that require a baseline level of phone service under
federal law. If the FCC heeds AT&T's advice, some fear there will be even
further entrenchment of the dominant wired carriers, like AT&T and Verizon,
who are pushing more profitable wireless services.

"For 100 years we've had the idea that everyone has a phone line,"
said Susan Crawford, a visiting professor at the Harvard Kennedy School and
a telecom law expert. It's the principle known as "common carriage," she
told Ars.

"Today the general purpose network is a fiber-to-the-home (FTTH).
That's what's going on in Europe and Asia, but we seem to be abandoning that
concept. Instead, we're allowing private carriers to choose who has to rely
on wireless and who gets a wire and who gets what type of wire. The whole
system has been turned upside down."

Still, both the FCC and telecom watchdog group Public Knowledge praised
AT&T's announcement.

"AT&T's announcement of billions of dollars in new investment in wired and
wireless broadband networks is proof positive that the climate for
investment and innovation in the US communications sector is healthy,"
said Julius Genachowski, the FCC chairman, in a statement. "Today's
announcement adds to nearly $200 billion of investment in wireless and
wireline broadband networks since 2009, and powerful growth in the Internet
economy."

Bruce Kushnick, a telecom analyst at NewNetworks, likened AT&T's move to
"extortion." He argued the $14 billion investment was a quid pro quo to
sweeten the move to further deregulation-and he anticipates further lobbying
from AT&T to Congress in 2013.

"The letter that they filed says they want to get rid of regulation, and
there will be an attack by AT&T and Verizon to get rid of all regulation in
Congress probably at the beginning of next year," he told Ars. "Their goal
is to take the letter and to extend it through Congress. What we need is a
wireless and wireline to have an open utility, and let customers choose
whatever provider and whatever services they want. If we don't do that, we
will fall behind."



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From baudouin.schombe at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 10:21:13 2012
From: baudouin.schombe at gmail.com (Baudouin Schombe)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 19:21:13 +0400
Subject: [governance] =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hamadoun_Tour=E9_Op-Ed_in_Wired_+?=
In-Reply-To: <025401cdbdb8$eea475c0$cbed6140$@gmail.com>
References: <007e01cdbd6e$55945890$00bd09b0$@gmail.com> <CACAaNxhDUb-rOU-KuHVqWVb7ejjbHdCW2odVVd_tUNE2Q0sFTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <025401cdbdb8$eea475c0$cbed6140$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPcSPKWEhQ2wDM8OHcz63DL9mHe=yADBaQxNk+1r2v7Vi6rLog@mail.gmail.com>

I appreciate rightly this appreciation of Michael and I ask myself the question
of what are beneficially precoccupations that will be discussed during
this high
mass? While we seek to make digital technology more profitable and
beneficial, we find the money to spend because we are at the end of
the year and
somewhere there was money that has not yet been spend and must justify its
use.


Baudouin


2012/11/8 michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com>

> McTim,
>
> I have no idea what the conference is "actually about", but even if it is
> only camouflage at least he is raising the issue and I don't see any of the
> folks who are semi-hysterical around the WCIT talking about anything even
> approaching those issues.
>
> At least in the US where AT&T is trying to do a similar deregulatory number
> on the FCC they are willing to pay a reasonable price ($14 Billion for
> additional connectivity) to get themselves off the regulatory hook.  What
> are the folks who are throwing everything but the kitchen sink at the ITU,
> offering (except platitudes about the magical wonders of
> "competition"--hardly of much use to subsistence farmers in Bangladesh or
> Burkina Faso living on $1 per day)?
>
> M
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: McTim [mailto:dogwallah at gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 4:47 PM
> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; michael gurstein
> Subject: Re: [governance] Hamadoun Touré Op-Ed in Wired +
>
> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 12:02 AM, michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > With over 90 percent of the world’s people now within reach of mobile
> > phones, the challenge today is bringing internet access to the
> > two-thirds of the world’s population that is still offline. This
> > challenge is compounded by the need to ensure connectivity is affordable
> and safe for all.
> >
> > and then
> >
> > The conference will chart a globally agreed-upon roadmap that offers
> > future connectivity to all, and ensures sufficient communications
> > capacity to cope with the exponential growth in voice, video, and
> > data. The sole focus of the event is making regulations valuable to
> > all stakeholders, creating a robust pillar to support future growth in
> global communications.
> >
> > and
> >
> > The conference will address issues that relate to improving online
> > access and connectivity for everyone.
> >
> > Surely these are appropriate goals for Civil Society as well
>
> spot on Michael.
>
> I for one don't believe that what HT says the conference is about is
> actually what the conference is about, do you?
>
>
>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> McTim
> "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route
> indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
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>


-- 
SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN
CENTRE AFRICAIN D'ECHANGE CULTUREL/
ACADEMIE DES TIC
FACILITATEUR GAID/AFRIQUE Membre
At-Large Member
NCSG Member

email:baudouin.schombe at gmail.com
         baudouin.schombe at ticafrica.net
tél:+243998983491
skype:b.schombe
wite web:http://webmail.ticafrica.net
blog:http://akimambo.unblog.fr
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From baudouin.schombe at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 10:29:20 2012
From: baudouin.schombe at gmail.com (Baudouin Schombe)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 19:29:20 +0400
Subject: [governance] Great speech, Carlos!
In-Reply-To: <CA+YNoKh88f=A0sHBYJNprTQ45BpFTybB9wOV1Q1jXEH8Y-WQMQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKh88f=A0sHBYJNprTQ45BpFTybB9wOV1Q1jXEH8Y-WQMQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPcSPKUoXio8m9ghtfmDDu2d7ff0rpHUCMrkNGVGW4-00bLPyg@mail.gmail.com>

Izumi actually, I took my time to evaluate the scope of this speech. I think
not be the last  but better late than never.
Carlos, you made the exception and the message has had its effect. Far from
me to you and especially your praise that we are like brother and
friend, be reassured
that you are doing our pride.

On the eve of the end of the year 2012, that God brings all his blessings.


Baudouin


2012/11/7 Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org>

> Dear Carlos,
>
> I hear many people really liked your speech yesterday, at the opening
> session. In fact, one of the government reps told me this morning it
> was THE BEST among all speeches of all guest speakers.
>
> I also was asked to get File version of your speech, Carlos, to be shared.
>
> To confess, I was not able to listen you since I was have some
> preparatory meeting for Emerging Issues main session, so I also need
> your speech in print/file. I am sure there are many others like me.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> izumi
>
>
> --
>                      >> Izumi Aizu <<
> Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
> Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
> Japan
> www.anr.org
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
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>


-- 
SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN
CENTRE AFRICAIN D'ECHANGE CULTUREL/
ACADEMIE DES TIC
FACILITATEUR GAID/AFRIQUE Membre
At-Large Member
NCSG Member

email:baudouin.schombe at gmail.com
         baudouin.schombe at ticafrica.net
tél:+243998983491
skype:b.schombe
wite web:http://webmail.ticafrica.net
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From mariliamaciel at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 11:28:36 2012
From: mariliamaciel at gmail.com (Marilia Maciel)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 14:28:36 -0200
Subject: Suggestions for remote participation Re: [governance] IGF2012,
 Remote Connection
Message-ID: <CACpVkK2GABWqQ8BWQ+5RKOcB4LTY=xdYeWi9O1cP_K4TTbSKxQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I would like to start a thread of concrete suggestions for improving RP. I
know all of us who participated remotely have our impressions of what could
be better, so why not share them?

My personal views about being a remote participant today - for the first
time in the IGF - is that the webcast of all sessions and the captioning
are tremendous tools, the existence of hubs multiplies IGF discussions, and
the fact that RP is available to any individual in the world is a
remarkable sign of openness. But, in spite of all the undeniable
achievements, progress needs to be made to ensure inclusion of views of
remote participants into the IGF debate.

That difficulty, in my opinion, has to do with one main reason: In spite of
the huge number of remote participants (47 hubs, more than 800 people last
year), the *methodology of most workshop sessions* *remains unchanged*. We
have not adjust to the new reality and the sessions are planned exclusively
for those who are physically in the IGF. One possible reason for that could
be that we have too many sessions on the schedule and too many issues to
discuss. My feeling was that session moderators were so under pressure
that, on the heat of the debate, they tended to see remote participants as
an obstacle to "moving the discussion forward", not as IGF participants.

Maybe* less and longer sessions* on IGF schedule would reduce pressure.
Time pressure makes people impatient with the difficulties that non-native
English speakers may have, or with occasional technical glitches, which we
need to cope with, if we really want to include remote participants. It is
up to us to decide what we value the most as a community: Speed of
discussions? Inclusion? Sometimes they are in a trade-off.

It would be important to r*educe the distance between remote participants
and the session moderator*. Most session moderators don't remember to look
at the screen and check if questions are popping up in Webex. So remote
participants lose the "timing" of making interventions. Maybe we could
establish a procedure so remote participants could *send questions to the
session moderator before the IGF*, so he could incorporate some of them
into his own set of questions to the panelists. For the "live"
questions, the remote participation moderator should have a *clear visual
way* to sign to the session moderator that a remote question has been
asked, like raising a red flag. Of course, audio interventions need to be
more encouraged, even if their moment needs to be carefully planned and
agreed upon between the session moderators and the technical team.

*There should not be a session without a remote moderator*. Imagine someone
who blocked her agenda to participate in a workshop and then, surprise: you
stay in a room talking to the walls. If remote participation is an integral
part of the IGF, this is unacceptable. Workshops without remote moderators
should not be approved (for real), and those physically present in the room
should confirm if the moderator is indeed there. As a last resort, anyone
could take the role of being a moderator in case the person is missing.

My main point is that, in spite of the technical improvements that should
always be made, *making remote participation inclusive is up to the
community, especially of those who plan the sessions*. Some organizers did
a great job in linking up with remote hubs, planing for the participation
of remote speakers and participants. But I seems they were still a
minority.

To mention the *technical aspects*, to me the greater problem was lack of
integration between webex, webcast and captioning. Going back and forth in
different windows was not practical. On a positive side, the quality of the
image of the webcast seemed to be better, and the cameras were placed in a
better position inside the room. It helped to read facial and body
expressions.

One last point: some time ago, it was proposed that a task force would be
created to *exchange knowledge and best practices regarding RP* with other
organizations that have also been struggling and making progress at it,
such as ITU (and many others as a matter of fact) in the UN. I don't know
why it did not fly. I hope that political sensitivities do not hamper what
could be a fruitful dialogue about a topic that is a common challenge.

Best wishes and a safe journey to all returning from Baku!

Marília


On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 9:38 AM, Imran Ahmed Shah <ias_pk at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
> I was logged into Room #10 remotely, webex but there was no other attendee.
> The webex Schedule (as on 6th and 7th) has single first day pre-meeting
> of 5th Nov but after refreshing promt appear for login and after login it
> connected me Room #  7th Nov meeting.
>
> I keep trying to obtain response from Moderator (Ms Nina), but could not
> established interactive response, and I do not know that have she read my
> text input or not. I think Moderator was too busy in the meeting
> physically and given zero importance to single Remote Participant. So, RP
> was useless.
>
> Regards
>
> Imran
> (for IGFPAK)
>
>
>
>   ------------------------------
> *From:* Jean-Yves GATETE <gate.one205 at yahoo.fr>
> *To:* "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>;
> Rudi Vansnick <rudi.vansnick at isoc.be>
> *Sent:* Thursday, 8 November 2012, 3:18
> *Subject:* Re: [governance] IGF2012, Remote Connection
>
> Hi all,
> as Mr Rudi, I ve been following via that webcast tool too. I have the same
> problem too and the Room10 is not working either.
>
> Wishing you all the best,
>
> Jean-Yves GATETE
>
>    *De :* Rudi Vansnick <rudi.vansnick at isoc.be>
> *À :* Crepin-Leblond Olivier <ocl at gih.com>
> *Cc :* governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> *Envoyé le :* Jeudi 8 novembre 2012 10h54
> *Objet :* Re: [governance] IGF2012, Remote Connection
>
> I've used the remote participation tools daily (till today). The webex
> allows to participate through the chat and the Q&A windows, but the webcast
> is always giving me the same error.
> If I want to see the room I have to use the webcast tool (
> http://webcast.igf2012.com/) , which is of course not fully synchronised
> with the webex session. From room 6 till room 9 the audio in the webcast is
> very low. With the volume on the max here I can hardly understand the
> speakers.
>
> The descriptions of the rooms workshops in the webcast window is not
> updated and gives sometimes wrong session information.
>
> Rudi Vansnick
> ------------------ Internet Society Belgium  ---------------------
> President - CEO                            Tel +32/(0)9/329.39.16
> rudi.vansnick at isoc.be            Mobile +32/(0)475/28.16.32
> Dendermondesteenweg 143            B-9070 Destelbergen
> www.internetsociety.be        "The Internet is for everyone"
>
> Op 8-nov-2012, om 04:29 heeft Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond het volgende
> geschreven:
>
> > I suppose rp has probably been flooded with enquiries.
> > Since the beginning of the week, I saw Bernard run around trying to fix
> > things.
> > The remote participation computers running Webex are all wired in and
> > appear to work well but the network sometimes goes through some periods
> > of being very slow. This is when the WIFI works and guess what, the WIFI
> > does not work well at all. In fact, I have spent complete afternoons
> > without WIFI. (not enough IPv4 addresses to allocate -- and no IPv6
> > connectivity at all in case you ask)
> >
> > Whilst so far, I have been super impressed with the host country, this
> > is, in my opinion, the poorest Internet connectivity we've had at the
> > venue in recent IGFs. <sigh>
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Olivier
> >
> > On 07/11/2012 00:04, Norbert Bollow wrote:
> >> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 8:16 PM, shaila mistry <shailam at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >>> Hi everyone
> >>> I too have tried several times to participate. Each time I am sent a
> >>> different route of downloads and logins , finally leading to a dead
> end.
> >>> Please advise what can be done ?
> >>> Shaila Rao Mistry
> >> Have you tried contacting
> >>
> >> "Remote Participation general help" <rp at intgovforum.org>
> >>
> >> ?
> >>
> >> Do they respond?
> >>
> >> If yes, what are they saying?
> >>
> >> If no, let us know, so that we can push locally for those help email
> >> addresses to be handled in a meaningful way.
> >>
> >> In the long run, what we need is funding to put a competent person in
> >> charge of ensuring in an ongoing manner (year after year) that IGF
> >> remote participation is made available in a way that can be expected
> >> to work (which presupposes learning from what went wrong in earlier
> >> years, and it presupposes serious testing well before the first day of
> >> the IGF). It is simply unacceptable for an entirely new technical team
> >> to put in charge of remote participation every year, and the remote
> >> participation infrastructure again and again being so absurdly
> >> unreliable.)
> >>
> >> Greetings,
> >> Norbert
> >>
> >
> > --
> > Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD
> > http://www.gih.com/ocl.html
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
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>
>
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-- 
Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade
FGV Direito Rio

Center for Technology and Society
Getulio Vargas Foundation
Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
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From ivarhartmann at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 11:30:52 2012
From: ivarhartmann at gmail.com (Ivar A. M. Hartmann)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 14:30:52 -0200
Subject: [governance] Digital Inclusion: You're Doint it Wrong, Google
Message-ID: <CA+=oXBJ=4=3Gn1LtRSiGVg7otR5XgCUoazWLpK8-z3wkho=pLQ@mail.gmail.com>

"Google product manager AbdelKarim Mardini said that the service is
designed to take aim 'at the next billion users on the Internet' (...)"

I sure hope the next billion users enjoy the actual internet and not
Google's private walled garden in the Philippines.
If anything, Google Free Zone is a disservice to digital inclusion. It's
surprising that Google would stamp on net neutrality after its proposal
with Verizon<https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/08/google-verizon-netneutrality>
.

Best,
Ivar

Google Free Zone aims at connecting developing countries

The service lets users search on Google, access Gmail, and use Google+ on
their mobile devices without paying for data.
 [image: Don Reisinger] <http://www.cnet.com/profile/dd13reis/>
 by Don Reisinger <http://www.cnet.com/profile/dd13reis/>
 November 8, 2012 6:16 AM PST
  [image: FreeZone is launching in the Philippines today.]

FreeZone is launching in the Philippines today.
 (Credit: Google)

Google has launched a new service designed to get users in developing
countries to access its core offerings.

Dubbed Free Zone<http://www.google.com.ph/intl/en/mobile/landing/freezone/stp.html>,
the service is launching first in the Philippines starting today. Users in
that country will be able to access Google Search, Gmail, and Google+ from
their mobile devices without incurring any data charges.

In an interview<http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/08/us-google-philippines-idUSBRE8A70IR20121108>with
Reuters published today, Google product manager AbdelKarim Mardini
said that the service is designed to take aim "at the next billion users on
the Internet, many of whom will be in emerging markets and encounter the
Internet first on a mobile phone without ever owning a PC." If successful,
Free Zone could be rolled out to other emerging markets.
 Related stories

   - Google's scary Bram Stoker
doodle<http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-57546794-71/googles-scary-bram-stoker-doodle/>
   - Google's U.K. search share dips below 90
percent<http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57546184-93/googles-u.k-search-share-dips-below-90-percent/>
   - As Nexus 10 hits the marketplace, new life is seen for Android tablet
   apps<http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57546033-94/as-nexus-10-hits-the-marketplace-new-life-is-seen-for-android-tablet-apps/>
   - Mozilla gets lucky, settles IRS audit for
$1.5M<http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57546129-93/mozilla-gets-lucky-settles-irs-audit-for-$1.5m/>
   - Google rolls out new search page look, moves navi
bar<http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57545924-93/google-rolls-out-new-search-page-look-moves-navi-bar/>

 However, there is a catch. While folks will be able to send and receive
e-mails on Gmail and check out what friends are sharing on Google+, they
can't go any further than Google's search results page before being told
they need to pay their carrier for access to data.

Free Zone is available on just about any Internet-enabled mobile phone in
the Philippines. According to Google, it's optimized to work on feature
phones, but can also work on smartphones.

Google's move underscores the growing importance of emerging markets.
Several countries around the world are starting to improve their technology
infrastructure, giving companies like Google, Apple, Microsoft, and others,
the opportunity to capitalize. In addition, as China's middle class
continues to grow, nearly all tech companies will try to pounce.



http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57546899-93/google-free-zone-aims-at-connecting-developing-countries/?part=rss&subj=news&tag=title
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From jlfullsack at orange.fr  Thu Nov  8 11:40:12 2012
From: jlfullsack at orange.fr (Jean-Louis FULLSACK)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 17:40:12 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [governance] =?UTF-8?Q?Hamadoun_Tour=C3=A9_Op-Ed_in_Wired_+?=
In-Reply-To: <CAPcSPKWEhQ2wDM8OHcz63DL9mHe=yADBaQxNk+1r2v7Vi6rLog@mail.gmail.com>
References: <007e01cdbd6e$55945890$00bd09b0$@gmail.com>
 <CACAaNxhDUb-rOU-KuHVqWVb7ejjbHdCW2odVVd_tUNE2Q0sFTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <025401cdbdb8$eea475c0$cbed6140$@gmail.com>
 <CAPcSPKWEhQ2wDM8OHcz63DL9mHe=yADBaQxNk+1r2v7Vi6rLog@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <226841677.43942.1352392812092.JavaMail.www@wwinf1m29>

 Dear Michel and Baudouin I agree wiith both your comments. Let me add my personal one for complementing them. Best regards and wishes for a successful IGF. I mean an IGF that (also) addresses DC’s actual needs. Jean-Louis Fullsack M. Touré said : Message du 08/11/12 16:23
> De : "Baudouin Schombe" 
> A : governance at lists.igcaucus.org, "michael gurstein" 
> Copie à : "McTim" 
> Objet : Re: [governance] Hamadoun Touré Op-Ed in Wired +
> 
> I appreciate rightly this appreciation of Michael and I ask myself the question of what are beneficially precoccupations that will be discussed during this high mass? While we seek to make digital technology more profitable and beneficial, we find the money to spend because we are at the end of the year and somewhere there was money that has not yet been spend and must justify its use.> Baudouin
> 
>2012/11/8 michael gurstein 
> McTim,
> 
> I have no idea what the conference is "actually about", but even if it is
> only camouflage at least he is raising the issue and I don't see any of the
> folks who are semi-hysterical around the WCIT talking about anything even
> approaching those issues.
> 
> At least in the US where AT&T is trying to do a similar deregulatory number
> on the FCC they are willing to pay a reasonable price ($14 Billion for
> additional connectivity) to get themselves off the regulatory hook. What
> are the folks who are throwing everything but the kitchen sink at the ITU,
> offering (except platitudes about the magical wonders of
> "competition"--hardly of much use to subsistence farmers in Bangladesh or
> Burkina Faso living on $1 per day)?
> 
> M
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: McTim [mailto:dogwallah at gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 4:47 PM
> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; michael gurstein
> Subject: Re: [governance] Hamadoun Touré Op-Ed in Wired +
> 
> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 12:02 AM, michael gurstein 
> wrote:
> >
> > With over 90 percent of the world’s people now within reach of mobile
> > phones, the challenge today is bringing internet access to the
> > two-thirds of the world’s population that is still offline. This
> > challenge is compounded by the need to ensure connectivity is affordable
> and safe for all.
> >
> > and then
> >
> > The conference will chart a globally agreed-upon roadmap that offers
> > future connectivity to all, and ensures sufficient communications
> > capacity to cope with the exponential growth in voice, video, and
> > data. The sole focus of the event is making regulations valuable to
> > all stakeholders, creating a robust pillar to support future growth in
> global communications.
> >
> > and
> >
> > The conference will address issues that relate to improving online
> > access and connectivity for everyone.
> >
> > Surely these are appropriate goals for Civil Society as well
> 
> spot on Michael.
> 
> I for one don't believe that what HT says the conference is about is
> actually what the conference is about, do you?
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Cheers,
> 
> McTim
> "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route
> indicates how we get there." Jon Postel
> 
> 
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> 
>
> 

> -- 
> SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN
> CENTRE AFRICAIN D'ECHANGE CULTUREL/
> ACADEMIE DES TIC
> FACILITATEUR GAID/AFRIQUE Membre
> At-Large Member
> NCSG Member
> 
> email:baudouin.schombe at gmail.com
> baudouin.schombe at ticafrica.net
> tél:+243998983491
> skype:b.schombe
> wite web:http://webmail.ticafrica.net
> blog:http://akimambo.unblog.fr
> 
> 


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From peter.hellmonds at hellmonds.eu  Thu Nov  8 12:07:06 2012
From: peter.hellmonds at hellmonds.eu (Peter H. Hellmonds)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 18:07:06 +0100
Subject: [governance] =?UTF-8?Q?Hamadoun_Tour=C3=A9_Op-Ed_in_Wired_+?=
In-Reply-To: <744487437.110851.1352393705092.JavaMail.open-xchange@oxbagw15.schlund.de>
References: <007e01cdbd6e$55945890$00bd09b0$@gmail.com> <CACAaNxhDUb-rOU-KuHVqWVb7ejjbHdCW2odVVd_tUNE2Q0sFTA@mail.gmail.com> <025401cdbdb8$eea475c0$cbed6140$@gmail.com> <CAPcSPKWEhQ2wDM8OHcz63DL9mHe=yADBaQxNk+1r2v7Vi6rLog@mail.gmail.com> <744487437.110851.1352393705092.JavaMail.open-xchange@oxbagw15.schlund.de>
Message-ID: <1826692298.111257.1352394434518.JavaMail.open-xchange@oxbagw15>

Jean-Louis

I hear you and understand your complaints. What would be your ideas to do it right? If private sector-led competitive investment is resulting in over-capacity and billions of sunk cost, as you say, what alternative set-up would deliver better results? Would you rather want government monopolies? Or public-private partnerships? Or something else? 

What I'm trying to get at is to find solutions after having identified what the problems are. My experience has taught me however that sometimes it may be the best option to go for the second-best solution if the first choice is unworkable. So, let's look at various options. 

Where do you see possible and realistic, workable solutions?

Best 

Peter H. Hellmonds
Public & International Affairs
Phone: +49 (160) 360-2852
E-Mail: peter.hellmonds at hellmonds.eu


On 08.11.2012, at 17:41, "Jean-Louis FULLSACK" <jlfullsack at orange.fr> wrote:

 

Dear Michel and Baudouin 

 

I agree wiith both your comments. Let me add my personal one for complementing them.

 

Best regards and wishes for a successful IGF. I mean an IGF that (also) addresses DC’s actual needs.

 

Jean-Louis Fullsack

 

 

M. Touré said :

<Infrastructure
<The conference will also focus on how ICTs – and particularly broadband – can be highly effective catalysts for sustainable social and economic progress.

<Right now, access to this potential is constrained by issues of affordability, with high costs a reality for many users. Related to this is insufficient investment in < infrastructure, especially in developing countries.

 

My comment :

This isn’t right ! H. Touré is confusing investment and useful telecom infrastructure deployment. 
Investment in these countries are very high with more than 50 billions spent in the last decade in sub-saharian Africa alone. But this investment is market driven, i.e. it is mostly focused on profitable routes where competition –encouraged by the ITU- generates multiplication of infrastructure, instead of building a real network that links the main cities and traffic nodes at national and sub-regional levels. Best example for illustrating this statement are the seven submarine cables that have been laid during the last decade along the African atlantic coast without any basic principle of actual telecommunication networking. In fact, instead of complementing each other they are just aimed to compete each other. This scandalous  “bandwidth glut” has swallowed up four billion dollars  while half of the capacity potential would be largely sufficient for the next decade.  The same over-investing scheme -competing instead of complementing- is applied on a series of terrestrial routes, leaving Africa without true backbone networks at national, sub-regional and continental level, despite the ITU’s solemn promises for such a network given in the seventies –remember Panaftel !- and in 2003 together with the Africa Union. Moreover, in 2007  the ITU led initiative Connect Africa promised the long awaited continental African backbone being in place in 2012 ….
Thus billions of dollars are wasted in needless infrastructure instead of being invested  to building essential telecom backbone networks. The invisible hand of the market is still ruling, and H.Touré’s ITU is applauding.

 

> Message du 08/11/12 16:23
> De : "Baudouin Schombe" 
> A : governance at lists.igcaucus.org, "michael gurstein" 
> Copie à : "McTim" 
> Objet : Re: [governance] Hamadoun Touré Op-Ed in Wired +
> 
>
I appreciate rightly this appreciation of Michael and I ask myself the question of what are beneficially precoccupations that will be discussed during this high mass? While we seek to make digital technology more profitable and beneficial, we find the money to spend because we are at the end of the year and somewhere there was money that has not yet been spend and must justify its use.
>  

Baudouin

> 
>
2012/11/8 michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com>
>
> 
> McTim,
> > 
> > I have no idea what the conference is "actually about", but even if it is
> > only camouflage at least he is raising the issue and I don't see any of the
> > folks who are semi-hysterical around the WCIT talking about anything even
> > approaching those issues.
> > 
> > At least in the US where AT&T is trying to do a similar deregulatory number
> > on the FCC they are willing to pay a reasonable price ($14 Billion for
> > additional connectivity) to get themselves off the regulatory hook.  What
> > are the folks who are throwing everything but the kitchen sink at the ITU,
> > offering (except platitudes about the magical wonders of
> > "competition"--hardly of much use to subsistence farmers in Bangladesh or
> > Burkina Faso living on $1 per day)?
> > 
> > M
> >
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: McTim [mailto:dogwallah at gmail.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 4:47 PM
> > To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; michael gurstein
> > Subject: Re: [governance] Hamadoun Touré Op-Ed in Wired +
> > 
> > On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 12:02 AM, michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > With over 90 percent of the world’s people now within reach of mobile
> > > phones, the challenge today is bringing internet access to the
> > > two-thirds of the world’s population that is still offline. This
> > > challenge is compounded by the need to ensure connectivity is affordable
> > and safe for all.
> > >
> > > and then
> > >
> > > The conference will chart a globally agreed-upon roadmap that offers
> > > future connectivity to all, and ensures sufficient communications
> > > capacity to cope with the exponential growth in voice, video, and
> > > data. The sole focus of the event is making regulations valuable to
> > > all stakeholders, creating a robust pillar to support future growth in
> > global communications.
> > >
> > > and
> > >
> > > The conference will address issues that relate to improving online
> > > access and connectivity for everyone.
> > >
> > > Surely these are appropriate goals for Civil Society as well
> > 
> > spot on Michael.
> > 
> > I for one don't believe that what HT says the conference is about is
> > actually what the conference is about, do you?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > Cheers,
> > 
> > McTim
> > "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route
> > indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel
> > 
> > 
> >
> 
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> > To be removed from the list, visit:
> >      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> > 
> > For all other list information and functions, see:
> >      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> >      http://www.igcaucus.org/
> > 
> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> > 
> >

> 

> -- 
> SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN
> CENTRE AFRICAIN D'ECHANGE CULTUREL/
> ACADEMIE DES TIC
> FACILITATEUR GAID/AFRIQUE Membre
> At-Large Member
> NCSG Member
> 
> email:baudouin.schombe at gmail.com
>          baudouin.schombe at ticafrica.net
> tél:+243998983491
> skype:b.schombe
> wite web:http://webmail.ticafrica.net
> blog:http://akimambo.unblog.fr
> 
> 


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From ginger at paque.net  Thu Nov  8 12:37:05 2012
From: ginger at paque.net (Ginger Paque)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 11:37:05 -0600
Subject: Suggestions for remote participation Re: [governance] IGF2012,
 Remote Connection
In-Reply-To: <CACpVkK2GABWqQ8BWQ+5RKOcB4LTY=xdYeWi9O1cP_K4TTbSKxQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACpVkK2GABWqQ8BWQ+5RKOcB4LTY=xdYeWi9O1cP_K4TTbSKxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALCecM-YKYc4tbLF4_RDtLWwLooc3CkdrNJQfVxCE2mSNSyCHw@mail.gmail.com>

These are excellent points, Marilia. We have been discussing similar ideas,
including Pranesh's suggestion that as remote participants we must 'make
ourselves be noticed'. I think we do need to raise our concerns in a
dynamic, strong, constructive way to make this possible. I ask that you
join us tomorrow at WS 52 Remote Participation: Reality and Principles, at
11:00 a.m. Baku time, conference room 9, where we will discuss these issues
and the way forward. We will continue collaborative work on the Remote
Participation principles, started last year in Nairobi, on an open etherpad
document. The url and password will be published tomorrow morning. If you
cannot join us, we will add your points to the document. We invite others
to make their voices heard, so we can include your points in our final
document. We hope to see you there, or to include you with our work. This
is an important issue of access, and must be addressed.
Obrigada, saludos,
Ginger


On 8 November 2012 10:28, Marilia Maciel <mariliamaciel at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I would like to start a thread of concrete suggestions for improving RP. I
> know all of us who participated remotely have our impressions of what could
> be better, so why not share them?
>
> My personal views about being a remote participant today - for the first
> time in the IGF - is that the webcast of all sessions and the captioning
> are tremendous tools, the existence of hubs multiplies IGF discussions, and
> the fact that RP is available to any individual in the world is a
> remarkable sign of openness. But, in spite of all the undeniable
> achievements, progress needs to be made to ensure inclusion of views of
> remote participants into the IGF debate.
>
> That difficulty, in my opinion, has to do with one main reason: In spite
> of the huge number of remote participants (47 hubs, more than 800 people
> last year), the *methodology of most workshop sessions* *remains unchanged
> *. We have not adjust to the new reality and the sessions are planned
> exclusively for those who are physically in the IGF. One possible reason
> for that could be that we have too many sessions on the schedule and too
> many issues to discuss. My feeling was that session moderators were so
> under pressure that, on the heat of the debate, they tended to see remote
> participants as an obstacle to "moving the discussion forward", not as IGF
> participants.
>
> Maybe* less and longer sessions* on IGF schedule would reduce pressure.
> Time pressure makes people impatient with the difficulties that non-native
> English speakers may have, or with occasional technical glitches, which we
> need to cope with, if we really want to include remote participants. It is
> up to us to decide what we value the most as a community: Speed of
> discussions? Inclusion? Sometimes they are in a trade-off.
>
> It would be important to r*educe the distance between remote participants
> and the session moderator*. Most session moderators don't remember to
> look at the screen and check if questions are popping up in Webex. So
> remote participants lose the "timing" of making interventions. Maybe we
> could establish a procedure so remote participants could *send questions
> to the session moderator before the IGF*, so he could incorporate some of
> them into his own set of questions to the panelists. For the "live"
> questions, the remote participation moderator should have a *clear visual
> way* to sign to the session moderator that a remote question has been
> asked, like raising a red flag. Of course, audio interventions need to be
> more encouraged, even if their moment needs to be carefully planned and
> agreed upon between the session moderators and the technical team.
>
> *There should not be a session without a remote moderator*. Imagine
> someone who blocked her agenda to participate in a workshop and then,
> surprise: you stay in a room talking to the walls. If remote participation
> is an integral part of the IGF, this is unacceptable. Workshops without
> remote moderators should not be approved (for real), and those physically
> present in the room should confirm if the moderator is indeed there. As a
> last resort, anyone could take the role of being a moderator in case the
> person is missing.
>
> My main point is that, in spite of the technical improvements that should
> always be made, *making remote participation inclusive is up to the
> community, especially of those who plan the sessions*. Some organizers
> did a great job in linking up with remote hubs, planing for the
> participation of remote speakers and participants. But I seems they were
> still a minority.
>
> To mention the *technical aspects*, to me the greater problem was lack of
> integration between webex, webcast and captioning. Going back and forth in
> different windows was not practical. On a positive side, the quality of the
> image of the webcast seemed to be better, and the cameras were placed in a
> better position inside the room. It helped to read facial and body
> expressions.
>
> One last point: some time ago, it was proposed that a task force would be
> created to *exchange knowledge and best practices regarding RP* with
> other organizations that have also been struggling and making progress at
> it, such as ITU (and many others as a matter of fact) in the UN. I don't
> know why it did not fly. I hope that political sensitivities do not hamper
> what could be a fruitful dialogue about a topic that is a common challenge.
>
> Best wishes and a safe journey to all returning from Baku!
>
> Marília
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 9:38 AM, Imran Ahmed Shah <ias_pk at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>> I was logged into Room #10 remotely, webex but there was no other
>> attendee.
>> The webex Schedule (as on 6th and 7th) has single first day pre-meeting
>> of 5th Nov but after refreshing promt appear for login and after login it
>> connected me Room #  7th Nov meeting.
>>
>> I keep trying to obtain response from Moderator (Ms Nina), but could not
>> established interactive response, and I do not know that have she read my
>> text input or not. I think Moderator was too busy in the meeting
>> physically and given zero importance to single Remote Participant. So, RP
>> was useless.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Imran
>> (for IGFPAK)
>>
>>
>>
>>   ------------------------------
>> *From:* Jean-Yves GATETE <gate.one205 at yahoo.fr>
>> *To:* "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>;
>> Rudi Vansnick <rudi.vansnick at isoc.be>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, 8 November 2012, 3:18
>> *Subject:* Re: [governance] IGF2012, Remote Connection
>>
>> Hi all,
>> as Mr Rudi, I ve been following via that webcast tool too. I have the
>> same problem too and the Room10 is not working either.
>>
>> Wishing you all the best,
>>
>> Jean-Yves GATETE
>>
>>    *De :* Rudi Vansnick <rudi.vansnick at isoc.be>
>> *À :* Crepin-Leblond Olivier <ocl at gih.com>
>> *Cc :* governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> *Envoyé le :* Jeudi 8 novembre 2012 10h54
>> *Objet :* Re: [governance] IGF2012, Remote Connection
>>
>> I've used the remote participation tools daily (till today). The webex
>> allows to participate through the chat and the Q&A windows, but the webcast
>> is always giving me the same error.
>> If I want to see the room I have to use the webcast tool (
>> http://webcast.igf2012.com/) , which is of course not fully synchronised
>> with the webex session. From room 6 till room 9 the audio in the webcast is
>> very low. With the volume on the max here I can hardly understand the
>> speakers.
>>
>> The descriptions of the rooms workshops in the webcast window is not
>> updated and gives sometimes wrong session information.
>>
>> Rudi Vansnick
>> ------------------ Internet Society Belgium  ---------------------
>> President - CEO                            Tel +32/(0)9/329.39.16
>> rudi.vansnick at isoc.be            Mobile +32/(0)475/28.16.32
>> Dendermondesteenweg 143            B-9070 Destelbergen
>> www.internetsociety.be        "The Internet is for everyone"
>>
>> Op 8-nov-2012, om 04:29 heeft Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond het volgende
>> geschreven:
>>
>> > I suppose rp has probably been flooded with enquiries.
>> > Since the beginning of the week, I saw Bernard run around trying to fix
>> > things.
>> > The remote participation computers running Webex are all wired in and
>> > appear to work well but the network sometimes goes through some periods
>> > of being very slow. This is when the WIFI works and guess what, the WIFI
>> > does not work well at all. In fact, I have spent complete afternoons
>> > without WIFI. (not enough IPv4 addresses to allocate -- and no IPv6
>> > connectivity at all in case you ask)
>> >
>> > Whilst so far, I have been super impressed with the host country, this
>> > is, in my opinion, the poorest Internet connectivity we've had at the
>> > venue in recent IGFs. <sigh>
>> >
>> > Kind regards,
>> >
>> > Olivier
>> >
>> > On 07/11/2012 00:04, Norbert Bollow wrote:
>> >> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 8:16 PM, shaila mistry <shailam at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>> Hi everyone
>> >>> I too have tried several times to participate. Each time I am sent a
>> >>> different route of downloads and logins , finally leading to a dead
>> end.
>> >>> Please advise what can be done ?
>> >>> Shaila Rao Mistry
>> >> Have you tried contacting
>> >>
>> >> "Remote Participation general help" <rp at intgovforum.org>
>> >>
>> >> ?
>> >>
>> >> Do they respond?
>> >>
>> >> If yes, what are they saying?
>> >>
>> >> If no, let us know, so that we can push locally for those help email
>> >> addresses to be handled in a meaningful way.
>> >>
>> >> In the long run, what we need is funding to put a competent person in
>> >> charge of ensuring in an ongoing manner (year after year) that IGF
>> >> remote participation is made available in a way that can be expected
>> >> to work (which presupposes learning from what went wrong in earlier
>> >> years, and it presupposes serious testing well before the first day of
>> >> the IGF). It is simply unacceptable for an entirely new technical team
>> >> to put in charge of remote participation every year, and the remote
>> >> participation infrastructure again and again being so absurdly
>> >> unreliable.)
>> >>
>> >> Greetings,
>> >> Norbert
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
>> > Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD
>> > http://www.gih.com/ocl.html
>> >
>> >
>> > ____________________________________________________________
>> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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>> >    http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> >
>> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
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>>
>
>
> --
> Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade
> FGV Direito Rio
>
> Center for Technology and Society
> Getulio Vargas Foundation
> Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
>
> ____________________________________________________________
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From fahd.batayneh at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 15:01:28 2012
From: fahd.batayneh at gmail.com (Fahd A. Batayneh)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 22:01:28 +0200
Subject: [governance] Good Bye .DOTAFRICA: ICANN Approves the Change
 Request Made by DotConnectAfrica Trust for Its .Africa
In-Reply-To: <20121108083558.GA22514@hserus.net>
References: <E1TVlJ2-0004V3-5L@frodo.hserus.net>
	<CAP2ohHE5UDxtXWqud4MR7yvUSUymsZ4vBdEe_HqFXAs=JvsAvw@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121107081316.GA28721@hserus.net>
	<CAP2ohHGK7LYNO82=y6T9RAnxPSVtPg6_3VD3-auRS7_Om-5ONQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACAaNxgzV9raFL_q=H5WMM_cwpQcw30VydD8R3JSmvzzpjyvJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABBOhxqd2s50aCAYGkiL8p1E9bdzW5MRaSKACVktssDq_3RxGg@mail.gmail.com>
	<DFB7B46F-CB3F-4B56-B047-A62DE8E1E873@hserus.net>
	<CABBOhxpVFrvAKWk8YkTinnvfyX3e1jq8GkijhQWxmXLoqUWNAg@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121108083558.GA22514@hserus.net>
Message-ID: <CABBOhxqdxgtnW3YxafLj3w8HuAq5dc-5xgGQNko--4QasvgG=Q@mail.gmail.com>

>From my discussions with a couple of TLD applicants, some have set
success-numbers such as "if I manage to secure xyz,000 registrations at the
cost of ab dollars per domain name, I have fulfilled my cause". That - as
you said - mainly comes from good marketing.

Fahd
On Nov 8, 2012 11:36 AM, "Suresh Ramasubramanian" <suresh at hserus.net> wrote:

> Success in terms of numbers? It depends on how much their marketing skills
> match their skills in high decibel politicking. Convincing companies with
> .eg, .ng, .za etc domains to get themselves .africa in addition / as a
> substitute may or may not be easy.  They could certainly learn from .asia's
> experience I'd say.
>
> Fahd A. Batayneh [08/11/12 09:17 +0200]:
>
>> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 12:46 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian
>> <suresh at hserus.net>wrote:
>>
>>  (snip)
>>>
>>>
>>
>>  Even the TLD by itself has little or no relevance in the larger scheme of
>>> things, any more than say .museum has for museums the world over, or its
>>> geographic predecessor .asia has had for Asia (moderately, but not too
>>> popular)
>>>
>>>
>> I agree. In fact, around 1% of the domain names registered at a global
>> level originate from Africa (or at least have African addresses tied to
>> them).
>>
>> So this all boils down to how the folks at .africa define the success of
>> the TLD in terms of numbers.
>>
>> Fahd
>>
>
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From suresh at hserus.net  Thu Nov  8 18:43:05 2012
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 05:13:05 +0530
Subject: [governance] Good Bye .DOTAFRICA: ICANN Approves the Change
 Request Made by DotConnectAfrica Trust for Its .Africa
In-Reply-To: <CABBOhxqdxgtnW3YxafLj3w8HuAq5dc-5xgGQNko--4QasvgG=Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E1TVlJ2-0004V3-5L@frodo.hserus.net> <CAP2ohHE5UDxtXWqud4MR7yvUSUymsZ4vBdEe_HqFXAs=JvsAvw@mail.gmail.com> <20121107081316.GA28721@hserus.net> <CAP2ohHGK7LYNO82=y6T9RAnxPSVtPg6_3VD3-auRS7_Om-5ONQ@mail.gmail.com> <CACAaNxgzV9raFL_q=H5WMM_cwpQcw30VydD8R3JSmvzzpjyvJw@mail.gmail.com> <CABBOhxqd2s50aCAYGkiL8p1E9bdzW5MRaSKACVktssDq_3RxGg@mail.gmail.com> <DFB7B46F-CB3F-4B56-B047-A62DE8E1E873@hserus.net> <CABBOhxpVFrvAKWk8YkTinnvfyX3e1jq8GkijhQWxmXLoqUWNAg@mail.gmail.com> <20121108083558.GA22514@hserus.net> <CABBOhxqdxgtnW3YxafLj3w8HuAq5dc-5xgGQNko--4QasvgG=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2BCBD1E3-E4F4-4D67-9AEF-D3F63F841378@hserus.net>

Volumes are definitely key. Especially to offset the rather high startup costs of a new tld

--srs (iPad)

On 09-Nov-2012, at 1:31, "Fahd A. Batayneh" <fahd.batayneh at gmail.com> wrote:

> From my discussions with a couple of TLD applicants, some have set success-numbers such as "if I manage to secure xyz,000 registrations at the cost of ab dollars per domain name, I have fulfilled my cause". That - as you said - mainly comes from good marketing.
> 
> Fahd
> 
> On Nov 8, 2012 11:36 AM, "Suresh Ramasubramanian" <suresh at hserus.net> wrote:
>> Success in terms of numbers? It depends on how much their marketing skills
>> match their skills in high decibel politicking. Convincing companies with
>> .eg, .ng, .za etc domains to get themselves .africa in addition / as a
>> substitute may or may not be easy.  They could certainly learn from .asia's
>> experience I'd say.
>> 
>> Fahd A. Batayneh [08/11/12 09:17 +0200]:
>>> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 12:46 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian
>>> <suresh at hserus.net>wrote:
>>> 
>>>> (snip)
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Even the TLD by itself has little or no relevance in the larger scheme of
>>>> things, any more than say .museum has for museums the world over, or its
>>>> geographic predecessor .asia has had for Asia (moderately, but not too
>>>> popular)
>>> 
>>> I agree. In fact, around 1% of the domain names registered at a global
>>> level originate from Africa (or at least have African addresses tied to
>>> them).
>>> 
>>> So this all boils down to how the folks at .africa define the success of
>>> the TLD in terms of numbers.
>>> 
>>> Fahd
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From ms.narine.khachatryan at gmail.com  Fri Nov  9 00:49:00 2012
From: ms.narine.khachatryan at gmail.com (Narine Khachatryan)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 09:49:00 +0400
Subject: [governance] EU officials 'hacked' at Azerbaijan Internet
 Governance Forum
Message-ID: <CAPVtaum=cqHyPDtgs=x6PUA8YUiup-7jLn98gKTPA5LacpoB2A@mail.gmail.com>

EU officials 'hacked' at Azerbaijan Internet Governance Forum

http://www.zdnet.com/eu-officials-hacked-at-azerbaijan-internet-governance-forum-7000007093/

*Summary:** A spokesman for digital agenda commissioner Neelie Kroes says
he and one of her policy advisors have had their laptops hacked in Baku,
which they are visiting for a major internet policy conference. A day
before, Kroes had laid into her hosts for spying on activists.*



By David Meyer <http://www.zdnet.com/meet-the-team/uk/david.meyer/> |
November 8, 2012 -- 09:05 GMT (01:05 PST)

The laptops of two EU officials have apparently been hacked in Azerbaijan
during the Internet Governance Forum.

The officials both work for digital agenda commissioner Neelie Kroes, who
gave a speech at the forum on Wednesday in which she lambasted the Azeri
government for spying on activists online, and promised to promote tools
for helping journalists avoid surveillance.

"Great, now my Mac has been hacked," Kroes's spokesman, Ryan Heath,
tweeted<https://twitter.com/RyanHeathEU/statuses/266454748016820224>
on
Thursday morning. "Also
@msprotonneutron<https://twitter.com/MsProtonNeutron> [policy
officer Camino Manjon] — I wonder who could have done that? #Azerbaijan."

<https://twitter.com/RyanHeathEU> Great, now my Mac has been hacked. Also @*
MsProtonNeutron* <https://twitter.com/MsProtonNeutron> - I wonder who could
have done that? #*Azerbaijan* <https://twitter.com/search/%23Azerbaijan>

Heath subsequently
clarified<https://twitter.com/RyanHeathEU/statuses/266476918344384512>
to
ZDNet UK that the alleged hacking had taken place in a hotel, rather than
at the event itself.

"Hacked @ hotel rather than at #IGF12. Someone else took over my personal
MacBook. Can't determine more yet," he wrote.

   Seriously? At a conference about internet freedoms, among other things?

 Hacked @ hotel rather than at #*IGF12*<https://twitter.com/search/%23IGF12>.
Someone else took over my personal MacBook. Can't determine more yet.

The Internet Governance Forum (IGF) is an annual event at which internet
policymakers from around the world convene for discussions with the
technical community, academics and other stakeholders.

This year's event comes less a month before the World Conference on
International Telecommunications in Dubai, at which global telecoms rules
will be revised for the first time in around 24 years. Some fear that
governments could assume more control over the internet in the new rules,
although Kroes told ZDNet UK in
August<http://www.zdnet.com/no-need-for-un-to-take-over-internet-says-eu-digital-chief-kroes-7000003145/>
that
she opposed such a move.

Kroes's speech<http://www.zdnet.com/story/create/%3C%20a%20href=%22http:/europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-12-784_en.htm?locale=en%22%3E>
on
Wednesday was combative in tone. Describing the internet as "the new
frontier of freedom and a new tool to exercise this freedom", she accused
her hosts of breaking pre-Eurovision promises to loosen their grip on free
expression.

"In this very country, we see many arbitrary restrictions on the media,"
Kroes said. "We see the exercise of free speech effectively criminalised.
We see violent attacks on journalists. And we see activists spied on
online, violating the privacy of journalists and their sources. I condemn
this. The restrictions must end."

Kroes referred to the European Commission's 'No Disconnect' strategy, which
involves giving online activists "technological tools… that help
journalists avoid surveillance and safeguard their right to privacy".
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From ms.narine.khachatryan at gmail.com  Fri Nov  9 01:01:06 2012
From: ms.narine.khachatryan at gmail.com (Narine Khachatryan)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 10:01:06 +0400
Subject: [governance] WG on Armenian IGF expresses its deep gratitude to the
 IGF Secretariat
Message-ID: <CAPVtaumQBJS67McTX1_eT0Tv8y0S=i2VKXGhXuG-5oAfcbKHdQ@mail.gmail.com>

The Working Group on Armenian IGF expresses its deep gratitude to the
Secretariat of the Internet Governance Forum and IGF Remote Participation
Team for taking immediate and effective measures and  urgently responding
to our Statement made on November 7, 2012.


Statement by the Working Group on Armenian IGF at the 7th Annual IGF Meeting

*Statement *



*by the **Working Group on Armenian IGF*

*at the **Seventh Annual IGF Meeting of the** Internet Governance Forum 2012
*

"*Internet Governance for Sustainable Human, Economic and Social Development
*"

* *



          The Working Group on Armenian IGF was willing and ready to take
active part in the Seventh Annual IGF Meeting of the Internet Governance
Forum convened in Baku, Azerbaijan, from November 6 to 9, 2012. It was also
looking forward to make its valuable contribution to the Internet
Governance process, especially, taking into consideration the vitality and
actuality of the Forum's subject matter. However, the recent developments
in Azerbaijan made our physical presence at the Forum dangerous and,
therefore, impossible.



          The extradition by Hungary to Azerbaijan and the unprecedented
pardon by Azerbaijan's President Aliyev of the notorious Ramil Safarov who
axe-murdered in cold blood in February of 2004 in Budapest, Hungary, the
sleeping Armenian military officer Gurgen Margaryan, as well as the
subsequent cynical glorification and honoring of the brutal killer in
Azerbaijan, combined with the increasing anti-Armenian racist propaganda on
the highest level, inflicted considerable damage to the weak contacts
existing between Armenia and Azerbaijan within the framework of the
international organizations and fora. With outright contempt and neglect,
Azerbaijan continues to turn blind eye and deaf ear to the unanimous and
unequivocal condemnation voiced by many countries, international and
European organizations over this gross violation of the principles and
norms of the international law and human morality[1].



          Internet Governance for Sustainable Human, Economic and Social
Development – these are not just words. On November 6, 2012, the Armenian
side was harshly rejected the simple opportunity of remote participation in
the IGF work: neither web broadcasting nor transcripts of the sessions and
workshops have been available to Armenian citizens, let alone the
unwillingness of some moderators to answer our questions or voice our
rightful concerns or complaints.



          We therefore strongly insist on ensuring of our full-fledged
participation in the IGF activities at all levels in order to guarantee the
inclusiveness and transparency of the entire IGF process.



*Yerevan, November 7, 2012*




------------------------------

[1]
http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/EUR55/015/2012/en/8e84f955-9f8f-488c-ad34-c68a744b6878/eur550152012en.html


Narine Khachatryan,
On behalf of the Working Group on Armenian IGF
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From iza at anr.org  Fri Nov  9 02:30:17 2012
From: iza at anr.org (Izumi AIZU)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 16:30:17 +0900
Subject: [governance] it's time for me
Message-ID: <CA+YNoKhP3DZGtATGOAru68Af_ZkrBK-7zY_vd+ZVXdNx4L6OAA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list,

It 's been a great 2 years for me as one of the co-cos of the CS IGC,
to work with you guys all.

Now, the Charter says the coordinator has two years term, and election
should be done by mid summer, or if not, later but asap.

So, I here put my intention to step down, and hope we will have many
excellent candidates, nominated, or self-nominated.

And I ask my colleague Sala to take the responsibility of the
election, perhaps with the help, if so needed from past coordinators.

Again, thank you all, from Baku.

izumi

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From ca at cafonso.ca  Fri Nov  9 02:36:56 2012
From: ca at cafonso.ca (Carlos A. Afonso)
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2012 11:36:56 +0400
Subject: [governance] ETNO can't win
Message-ID: <jqieysdk76vdpjp3hybm9057.1352446392021@email.android.com>

The ETNO proposal: all but naive

Carlos A. Afonso
Instituto Nupef
Baku, Nov.8, 2012

In the open forum space this morning ETNO's  (European Telecommunications Network Operators'  Association) representative presented his arguments in defense of more profits by regulation. Telcos are envious of the way application and content services are making money through their (telcos') pipes.

Recently the CEO of Oi, the largest telco operating in Brazil and associated with Portugal Telecom, revealed an envy of application providers who, in his view, manipulate traffic at will, and the "poor telcos" cannot do the same. He was seconded by the Brazilian minister of Communications, who insisted net neutrality is a "romantic" myth which should be abandoned.

They of course hate to see their fixed line phone networks being abandoned and being replaced by mobile and, worst of all, by a demon called voIP. But are particularly envious of the creativity of content and application providers' innovative ways to do business and want to grab a share of their profits with the help of governments, local regulators and the ITU.

So they want the ITU to somehow insert in the international telecommunications regulations (ITRs) being reviewed this year criteria to charge for traffic of packets passing through their tubes so that anyone who sends packets pays for it. Strange as it may sound, this is what they do today already.

An application or content provider already prepays an operator (by buying capacity of, say, some gigabits per second per month) -- so the sender already pays, and this is a very profitable business for telcos, since this is an entirely unregulated market and all they have to do is to keep the link alive. But for telcos a product called "transit capacity" is the only known in any market which is not intended to be used as specified. An ISP buys capacity but cannot use it in full. If they do, they will have to pay more. How much more? This should be kept to the will of the telco selling capacity, ETNO is saying to ITU.

We can see the current Internet gamut of services as two basic types: the ones who require that a stream be delivered to its destination in real time (video/audio streaming, interactive real time services such as voIP), and the ones which do not require real time delivery (email, an HMTL page, even chats). These correspond to exactly defined Internet protocols, the treatment of which is already embedded in routers and advanced switches -- for example, no one has to do not anything for the well-configured network to recognize a voIP stream and act accordingly, unless a deliberate traffic interference device degrades it.

But telcos want to interfere and then charge the final user for eliminating the interference -- what they call "QoS" or quality of service. In other words, they wish to degrade the net and get more money from you (the content or application provider, the smaller ISPs, the home user) to fix it.

The point is that they are doing this at will now -- the ETNO folks just want somehow to legalize this practice with the help of ITU, by throwing away the concept of net neutrality at the link layer.

As I said in my speech in the Baku IGF's opening ceremony, the internet layer and the layers above it (transport layer and applications layer) should not be included in any way in the regulations, while the free flow of Internet packets should be guaranteed in the link layer, in line with network neutrality in which Internet packets are never touched by the operators providing the physical connectivity infrastructure.

And I repeat: let the Internet flourish freely to the benefit of those who live at its edges, which are all of us.

Carlos A. Afonso
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From baudouin.schombe at gmail.com  Fri Nov  9 02:42:30 2012
From: baudouin.schombe at gmail.com (Baudouin Schombe)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 11:42:30 +0400
Subject: [governance] it's time for me
In-Reply-To: <CA+YNoKhP3DZGtATGOAru68Af_ZkrBK-7zY_vd+ZVXdNx4L6OAA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKhP3DZGtATGOAru68Af_ZkrBK-7zY_vd+ZVXdNx4L6OAA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPcSPKVMnLR4FwJrDiAUn-H059AVHmm87aDO=zy_PhrEtsouqA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Izumi, hello all,

If it's held me, I do not think it is time to leave the coordination. You
have been great throughout your office.
But the texts to be respected, I must present you all the congratulations from
the bottom of my heart for all the work done during these two years.
I do not think you left the caucus and that we will always need your
expertise.


Baudouin


2012/11/9 Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org>

> Dear list,
>
> It 's been a great 2 years for me as one of the co-cos of the CS IGC,
> to work with you guys all.
>
> Now, the Charter says the coordinator has two years term, and election
> should be done by mid summer, or if not, later but asap.
>
> So, I here put my intention to step down, and hope we will have many
> excellent candidates, nominated, or self-nominated.
>
> And I ask my colleague Sala to take the responsibility of the
> election, perhaps with the help, if so needed from past coordinators.
>
> Again, thank you all, from Baku.
>
> izumi
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN
CENTRE AFRICAIN D'ECHANGE CULTUREL/
ACADEMIE DES TIC
FACILITATEUR GAID/AFRIQUE Membre
At-Large Member
NCSG Member

email:baudouin.schombe at gmail.com
         baudouin.schombe at ticafrica.net
tél:+243998983491
skype:b.schombe
wite web:http://webmail.ticafrica.net
blog:http://akimambo.unblog.fr
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From williams.deirdre at gmail.com  Fri Nov  9 02:49:44 2012
From: williams.deirdre at gmail.com (Deirdre Williams)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 03:49:44 -0400
Subject: [governance] it's time for me
In-Reply-To: <CA+YNoKhP3DZGtATGOAru68Af_ZkrBK-7zY_vd+ZVXdNx4L6OAA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKhP3DZGtATGOAru68Af_ZkrBK-7zY_vd+ZVXdNx4L6OAA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMz5XN57GPDfUDy1bZU7Ea+dpLWZdL2n-ZKZ_7ZBmsUGJY91Pg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Izumi, you've been a wonderful co- coordinator.
We'll miss you,
Deirdre

On 9 November 2012 03:30, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:

> Dear list,
>
> It 's been a great 2 years for me as one of the co-cos of the CS IGC,
> to work with you guys all.
>
> Now, the Charter says the coordinator has two years term, and election
> should be done by mid summer, or if not, later but asap.
>
> So, I here put my intention to step down, and hope we will have many
> excellent candidates, nominated, or self-nominated.
>
> And I ask my colleague Sala to take the responsibility of the
> election, perhaps with the help, if so needed from past coordinators.
>
> Again, thank you all, from Baku.
>
> izumi
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
“The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
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From suresh at hserus.net  Fri Nov  9 03:09:23 2012
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 13:39:23 +0530
Subject: [governance] it's time for me
In-Reply-To: <CAMz5XN57GPDfUDy1bZU7Ea+dpLWZdL2n-ZKZ_7ZBmsUGJY91Pg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKhP3DZGtATGOAru68Af_ZkrBK-7zY_vd+ZVXdNx4L6OAA@mail.gmail.com> <CAMz5XN57GPDfUDy1bZU7Ea+dpLWZdL2n-ZKZ_7ZBmsUGJY91Pg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0F7F70D6-93B0-4C67-A8D3-2B2C2B0DFAA5@hserus.net>

all the best, izumi san

--srs (iPad)

On 09-Nov-2012, at 13:19, Deirdre Williams <williams.deirdre at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Izumi, you've been a wonderful co- coordinator.
> We'll miss you, 
> Deirdre
> 
> On 9 November 2012 03:30, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:
>> Dear list,
>> 
>> It 's been a great 2 years for me as one of the co-cos of the CS IGC,
>> to work with you guys all.
>> 
>> Now, the Charter says the coordinator has two years term, and election
>> should be done by mid summer, or if not, later but asap.
>> 
>> So, I here put my intention to step down, and hope we will have many
>> excellent candidates, nominated, or self-nominated.
>> 
>> And I ask my colleague Sala to take the responsibility of the
>> election, perhaps with the help, if so needed from past coordinators.
>> 
>> Again, thank you all, from Baku.
>> 
>> izumi
>> 
>> 
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> 
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> 
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> “The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
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> 
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> 
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From isolatedn at gmail.com  Fri Nov  9 03:20:28 2012
From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian M)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 13:50:28 +0530
Subject: [governance] it's time for me
In-Reply-To: <CAMz5XN57GPDfUDy1bZU7Ea+dpLWZdL2n-ZKZ_7ZBmsUGJY91Pg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKhP3DZGtATGOAru68Af_ZkrBK-7zY_vd+ZVXdNx4L6OAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMz5XN57GPDfUDy1bZU7Ea+dpLWZdL2n-ZKZ_7ZBmsUGJY91Pg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHyAo0FbN3wJSCsnXp5cAKJcijFW=N3aABWjyvQPuBXUm3H9MQ@mail.gmail.com>

Congratulations Izumi, for your good work.

Sivasubramanian M
On Nov 9, 2012 11:50 AM, "Deirdre Williams" <williams.deirdre at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Izumi, you've been a wonderful co- coordinator.
> We'll miss you,
> Deirdre
>
> On 9 November 2012 03:30, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:
>
>> Dear list,
>>
>> It 's been a great 2 years for me as one of the co-cos of the CS IGC,
>> to work with you guys all.
>>
>> Now, the Charter says the coordinator has two years term, and election
>> should be done by mid summer, or if not, later but asap.
>>
>> So, I here put my intention to step down, and hope we will have many
>> excellent candidates, nominated, or self-nominated.
>>
>> And I ask my colleague Sala to take the responsibility of the
>> election, perhaps with the help, if so needed from past coordinators.
>>
>> Again, thank you all, from Baku.
>>
>> izumi
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> “The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
> Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
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>
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>
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From judyokite at gmail.com  Fri Nov  9 04:21:28 2012
From: judyokite at gmail.com (Judy Okite)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 13:21:28 +0400
Subject: [governance] it's time for me
In-Reply-To: <CAHyAo0FbN3wJSCsnXp5cAKJcijFW=N3aABWjyvQPuBXUm3H9MQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKhP3DZGtATGOAru68Af_ZkrBK-7zY_vd+ZVXdNx4L6OAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMz5XN57GPDfUDy1bZU7Ea+dpLWZdL2n-ZKZ_7ZBmsUGJY91Pg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHyAo0FbN3wJSCsnXp5cAKJcijFW=N3aABWjyvQPuBXUm3H9MQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOD4ris7NoxnzdJVr9YwdUHp8Mtzp=zycoDWS+65xrgxMGyQCg@mail.gmail.com>

Congratulations Izumi,

thank you for all the time that you dedicated to this course and efforts.
All the best!

Kind Regards,

*“Don't undertake a project unless it is manifestly important and nearly
impossible” Edwin Land*



On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 12:20 PM, Sivasubramanian M <isolatedn at gmail.com>wrote:

> Congratulations Izumi, for your good work.
>
> Sivasubramanian M
> On Nov 9, 2012 11:50 AM, "Deirdre Williams" <williams.deirdre at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Izumi, you've been a wonderful co- coordinator.
>> We'll miss you,
>> Deirdre
>>
>> On 9 November 2012 03:30, Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear list,
>>>
>>> It 's been a great 2 years for me as one of the co-cos of the CS IGC,
>>> to work with you guys all.
>>>
>>> Now, the Charter says the coordinator has two years term, and election
>>> should be done by mid summer, or if not, later but asap.
>>>
>>> So, I here put my intention to step down, and hope we will have many
>>> excellent candidates, nominated, or self-nominated.
>>>
>>> And I ask my colleague Sala to take the responsibility of the
>>> election, perhaps with the help, if so needed from past coordinators.
>>>
>>> Again, thank you all, from Baku.
>>>
>>> izumi
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> “The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
>> Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
> ____________________________________________________________
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From ms.narine.khachatryan at gmail.com  Fri Nov  9 04:51:19 2012
From: ms.narine.khachatryan at gmail.com (Narine Khachatryan)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 13:51:19 +0400
Subject: [governance] Re: Refugee Issue
Message-ID: <CAPVtau=wsLHiwkT7Ogqbm1Bd+430rf83ukN1A6QEM_phv=i3DQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Nobert,


Thank you very much for your interest. The problems of ethnic Armenian
refugees and ethnic Azeri refugees are very sensitive: numbers, sources,
context, etc.


Before discussing this issue, I would kindly ask you to familiarize
yourself with the trustworthy UN information, which I think is universally
considered to be more accurate and unbiased:

http://www.unhcr.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/page?page=49e48d1e6&submit=GO

http://www.unhcr.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/page?page=49e48d126&submit=GO



I had never doubt that the refugee issue is under close attention of very
skillful experts with international background. Refugee issue is one of the
central issues UN is very profoundly engaged in.


You say that “the conflict probably needs a long-term externally mediated
peace-building effort”. However, what exactly do you mean: the return of
Armenian refugees to Shahumian, Dashkesan, Khanlar, Ganja, Khazakh and
Nakhichevan?


Or, maybe, the establishment of a security zone along the frontage of the
Kura River, so that the 150.000 citizens of Nagorno Karabakh could continue
to build its democratic state in a more secure environment?


Instead of organizing such flashy events as Eurovision (cost $500 million,
see link (1) below) or pursuing caviar diplomacy (see link (2) below),
Azerbaijan’s government could finally pay some attention to the refugee
issue.


Interestingly, you bring an example of a refugee living in Sumgait. Concerning
Sumgait, or its neighboring Baku, only the living areas of more than
250 000 Armenian civilians exiled with massive pogroms and massacres from
Baku and Sumgait plus money (such as wasted on Eurovision) are more than
enough for the problem of refugees had been solved long ago. Not to speak
about living areas left by Armenians in Shahumian, Dashkesan, Khanlar,
Ganja, Khazakh, etc.


If I were in Baku within the last four days and was so much concerned with
refugee issue, I would, instead of enjoying lavish gala dinners, stay on
starvation and ask the organizers to send the food to Azeri refugees.


Armenia managed to solve the issue of its refugees being under miserable
economic conditions and destructed by the disastrous earthquake of 1988. And,
mark, without the help of oil dollars. It’s just the value system has been
different in Armenia.


Taking this opportunity, I herewith attach a brief background paper on the
Refugee Issue (attached), which, I hope, will give you a full and unbiased
picture on the subject.


Truly,

Narine


(1)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/azerbaijan/9658427/Why-is-a-crucial-conference-on-internet-freedom-taking-place-in-a-dictatorship.html


(2)
http://williamleeadams.com/2012/05/04/selling-azerbaijan-at-eurovision-2012/
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From nb at bollow.ch  Fri Nov  9 05:26:55 2012
From: nb at bollow.ch (Norbert Bollow)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 14:26:55 +0400
Subject: [governance] Re: Refugee Issue
In-Reply-To: <CAPVtau=wsLHiwkT7Ogqbm1Bd+430rf83ukN1A6QEM_phv=i3DQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPVtau=wsLHiwkT7Ogqbm1Bd+430rf83ukN1A6QEM_phv=i3DQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALrvCLDQg=V5M4GkW3NaZAcS-xzoDkHZDB+czT7x6B1Ks3YU2A@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 1:51 PM, Narine Khachatryan
<ms.narine.khachatryan at gmail.com> wrote:
>You say that “the conflict probably needs a long-term externally mediated peace-building effort”.
> However, what exactly do you mean: the return of Armenian refugees to Shahumian, Dashkesan,
> Khanlar, Ganja, Khazakh and Nakhichevan?

With the words "peace-building effort" I was not thinking immediately
of any ideas on how the conflict might be resolved (which due to lack
of familiarity with the region I don't really have) but I was thinking
of efforts aiming at helping people on both sides of the conflict get
to the point of being able to communicate with each other (by which I
mean not only talking but also listening and understanding the other
side's viewpoint).

Greetings,
Norbert

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From mariliamaciel at gmail.com  Fri Nov  9 06:15:28 2012
From: mariliamaciel at gmail.com (Marilia Maciel)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 09:15:28 -0200
Subject: Suggestions for remote participation Re: [governance] IGF2012,
 Remote Connection
In-Reply-To: <CALCecM-YKYc4tbLF4_RDtLWwLooc3CkdrNJQfVxCE2mSNSyCHw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACpVkK2GABWqQ8BWQ+5RKOcB4LTY=xdYeWi9O1cP_K4TTbSKxQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALCecM-YKYc4tbLF4_RDtLWwLooc3CkdrNJQfVxCE2mSNSyCHw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACpVkK3s+X872NvttXvJaKr5MU-89SQZmdSdSomzP7kbtvT=gg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the feedback Ginger. The times zones were difficult to
reconcile, but I will look for the transcripts online.
Maybe we could send the result of the discussions of the workshop today and
the suggestions for improvement that will be made on the list as a
contribution to the next Open Consultation.

Marília

On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 3:37 PM, Ginger Paque <ginger at paque.net> wrote:

> These are excellent points, Marilia. We have been discussing similar
> ideas, including Pranesh's suggestion that as remote participants we must
> 'make ourselves be noticed'. I think we do need to raise our concerns in a
> dynamic, strong, constructive way to make this possible. I ask that you
> join us tomorrow at WS 52 Remote Participation: Reality and Principles, at
> 11:00 a.m. Baku time, conference room 9, where we will discuss these issues
> and the way forward. We will continue collaborative work on the Remote
> Participation principles, started last year in Nairobi, on an open etherpad
> document. The url and password will be published tomorrow morning. If you
> cannot join us, we will add your points to the document. We invite others
> to make their voices heard, so we can include your points in our final
> document. We hope to see you there, or to include you with our work. This
> is an important issue of access, and must be addressed.
> Obrigada, saludos,
> Ginger
>
>
>
> On 8 November 2012 10:28, Marilia Maciel <mariliamaciel at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I would like to start a thread of concrete suggestions for improving RP.
>> I know all of us who participated remotely have our impressions of what
>> could be better, so why not share them?
>>
>> My personal views about being a remote participant today - for the first
>> time in the IGF - is that the webcast of all sessions and the captioning
>> are tremendous tools, the existence of hubs multiplies IGF discussions, and
>> the fact that RP is available to any individual in the world is a
>> remarkable sign of openness. But, in spite of all the undeniable
>> achievements, progress needs to be made to ensure inclusion of views of
>> remote participants into the IGF debate.
>>
>> That difficulty, in my opinion, has to do with one main reason: In spite
>> of the huge number of remote participants (47 hubs, more than 800 people
>> last year), the *methodology of most workshop sessions* *remains
>> unchanged*. We have not adjust to the new reality and the sessions are
>> planned exclusively for those who are physically in the IGF. One possible
>> reason for that could be that we have too many sessions on the schedule and
>> too many issues to discuss. My feeling was that session moderators were so
>> under pressure that, on the heat of the debate, they tended to see remote
>> participants as an obstacle to "moving the discussion forward", not as IGF
>> participants.
>>
>> Maybe* less and longer sessions* on IGF schedule would reduce pressure.
>> Time pressure makes people impatient with the difficulties that non-native
>> English speakers may have, or with occasional technical glitches, which we
>> need to cope with, if we really want to include remote participants. It is
>> up to us to decide what we value the most as a community: Speed of
>> discussions? Inclusion? Sometimes they are in a trade-off.
>>
>> It would be important to r*educe the distance between remote
>> participants and the session moderator*. Most session moderators don't
>> remember to look at the screen and check if questions are popping up in
>> Webex. So remote participants lose the "timing" of making interventions.
>> Maybe we could establish a procedure so remote participants could *send
>> questions to the session moderator before the IGF*, so he could
>> incorporate some of them into his own set of questions to the panelists.
>> For the "live" questions, the remote participation moderator should have a
>> *clear visual way* to sign to the session moderator that a remote
>> question has been asked, like raising a red flag. Of course, audio
>> interventions need to be more encouraged, even if their moment needs to be
>> carefully planned and agreed upon between the session moderators and the
>> technical team.
>>
>> *There should not be a session without a remote moderator*. Imagine
>> someone who blocked her agenda to participate in a workshop and then,
>> surprise: you stay in a room talking to the walls. If remote participation
>> is an integral part of the IGF, this is unacceptable. Workshops without
>> remote moderators should not be approved (for real), and those physically
>> present in the room should confirm if the moderator is indeed there. As a
>> last resort, anyone could take the role of being a moderator in case the
>> person is missing.
>>
>> My main point is that, in spite of the technical improvements that should
>> always be made, *making remote participation inclusive is up to the
>> community, especially of those who plan the sessions*. Some organizers
>> did a great job in linking up with remote hubs, planing for the
>> participation of remote speakers and participants. But I seems they were
>> still a minority.
>>
>> To mention the *technical aspects*, to me the greater problem was lack
>> of integration between webex, webcast and captioning. Going back and forth
>> in different windows was not practical. On a positive side, the quality of
>> the image of the webcast seemed to be better, and the cameras were placed
>> in a better position inside the room. It helped to read facial and body
>> expressions.
>>
>> One last point: some time ago, it was proposed that a task force would be
>> created to *exchange knowledge and best practices regarding RP* with
>> other organizations that have also been struggling and making progress at
>> it, such as ITU (and many others as a matter of fact) in the UN. I don't
>> know why it did not fly. I hope that political sensitivities do not hamper
>> what could be a fruitful dialogue about a topic that is a common challenge.
>>
>> Best wishes and a safe journey to all returning from Baku!
>>
>> Marília
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 9:38 AM, Imran Ahmed Shah <ias_pk at yahoo.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> I was logged into Room #10 remotely, webex but there was no other
>>> attendee.
>>> The webex Schedule (as on 6th and 7th) has single first day pre-meeting
>>> of 5th Nov but after refreshing promt appear for login and after login it
>>> connected me Room #  7th Nov meeting.
>>>
>>> I keep trying to obtain response from Moderator (Ms Nina), but could not
>>> established interactive response, and I do not know that have she read my
>>> text input or not. I think Moderator was too busy in the meeting
>>> physically and given zero importance to single Remote Participant. So, RP
>>> was useless.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Imran
>>> (for IGFPAK)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   ------------------------------
>>> *From:* Jean-Yves GATETE <gate.one205 at yahoo.fr>
>>> *To:* "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>;
>>> Rudi Vansnick <rudi.vansnick at isoc.be>
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, 8 November 2012, 3:18
>>> *Subject:* Re: [governance] IGF2012, Remote Connection
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> as Mr Rudi, I ve been following via that webcast tool too. I have the
>>> same problem too and the Room10 is not working either.
>>>
>>> Wishing you all the best,
>>>
>>> Jean-Yves GATETE
>>>
>>>    *De :* Rudi Vansnick <rudi.vansnick at isoc.be>
>>> *À :* Crepin-Leblond Olivier <ocl at gih.com>
>>> *Cc :* governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> *Envoyé le :* Jeudi 8 novembre 2012 10h54
>>> *Objet :* Re: [governance] IGF2012, Remote Connection
>>>
>>> I've used the remote participation tools daily (till today). The webex
>>> allows to participate through the chat and the Q&A windows, but the webcast
>>> is always giving me the same error.
>>> If I want to see the room I have to use the webcast tool (
>>> http://webcast.igf2012.com/) , which is of course not fully
>>> synchronised with the webex session. From room 6 till room 9 the audio in
>>> the webcast is very low. With the volume on the max here I can hardly
>>> understand the speakers.
>>>
>>> The descriptions of the rooms workshops in the webcast window is not
>>> updated and gives sometimes wrong session information.
>>>
>>> Rudi Vansnick
>>> ------------------ Internet Society Belgium  ---------------------
>>> President - CEO                            Tel +32/(0)9/329.39.16
>>> rudi.vansnick at isoc.be            Mobile +32/(0)475/28.16.32
>>> Dendermondesteenweg 143            B-9070 Destelbergen
>>> www.internetsociety.be        "The Internet is for everyone"
>>>
>>> Op 8-nov-2012, om 04:29 heeft Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond het volgende
>>> geschreven:
>>>
>>> > I suppose rp has probably been flooded with enquiries.
>>> > Since the beginning of the week, I saw Bernard run around trying to fix
>>> > things.
>>> > The remote participation computers running Webex are all wired in and
>>> > appear to work well but the network sometimes goes through some periods
>>> > of being very slow. This is when the WIFI works and guess what, the
>>> WIFI
>>> > does not work well at all. In fact, I have spent complete afternoons
>>> > without WIFI. (not enough IPv4 addresses to allocate -- and no IPv6
>>> > connectivity at all in case you ask)
>>> >
>>> > Whilst so far, I have been super impressed with the host country, this
>>> > is, in my opinion, the poorest Internet connectivity we've had at the
>>> > venue in recent IGFs. <sigh>
>>> >
>>> > Kind regards,
>>> >
>>> > Olivier
>>> >
>>> > On 07/11/2012 00:04, Norbert Bollow wrote:
>>> >> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 8:16 PM, shaila mistry <shailam at yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>> Hi everyone
>>> >>> I too have tried several times to participate. Each time I am sent a
>>> >>> different route of downloads and logins , finally leading to a dead
>>> end.
>>> >>> Please advise what can be done ?
>>> >>> Shaila Rao Mistry
>>> >> Have you tried contacting
>>> >>
>>> >> "Remote Participation general help" <rp at intgovforum.org>
>>> >>
>>> >> ?
>>> >>
>>> >> Do they respond?
>>> >>
>>> >> If yes, what are they saying?
>>> >>
>>> >> If no, let us know, so that we can push locally for those help email
>>> >> addresses to be handled in a meaningful way.
>>> >>
>>> >> In the long run, what we need is funding to put a competent person in
>>> >> charge of ensuring in an ongoing manner (year after year) that IGF
>>> >> remote participation is made available in a way that can be expected
>>> >> to work (which presupposes learning from what went wrong in earlier
>>> >> years, and it presupposes serious testing well before the first day of
>>> >> the IGF). It is simply unacceptable for an entirely new technical team
>>> >> to put in charge of remote participation every year, and the remote
>>> >> participation infrastructure again and again being so absurdly
>>> >> unreliable.)
>>> >>
>>> >> Greetings,
>>> >> Norbert
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD
>>> > http://www.gih.com/ocl.html
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ____________________________________________________________
>>> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>> >    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> > To be removed from the list, visit:
>>> >    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>> >
>>> > For all other list information and functions, see:
>>> >    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>> >    http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>> >
>>> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade
>> FGV Direito Rio
>>
>> Center for Technology and Society
>> Getulio Vargas Foundation
>> Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>


-- 
Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade
FGV Direito Rio

Center for Technology and Society
Getulio Vargas Foundation
Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From b.schombe at gmail.com  Fri Nov  9 06:37:20 2012
From: b.schombe at gmail.com (Baudouin SCHOMBE)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 15:37:20 +0400
Subject: Suggestions for remote participation Re: [governance] IGF2012,
 Remote Connection
In-Reply-To: <CACpVkK2GABWqQ8BWQ+5RKOcB4LTY=xdYeWi9O1cP_K4TTbSKxQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACpVkK2GABWqQ8BWQ+5RKOcB4LTY=xdYeWi9O1cP_K4TTbSKxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHj_20ihTfeTMyR=Dd0R0haUvR669FnkXuRTf7Z=47WGSp1x2A@mail.gmail.com>

I am very attracted by this very observation pertienente.
I propose that a moderator is identified by countries to channel the
contributions
of participants at a distance. At the moderator has the IGF, it may be
assisted by one or two people to organize interventions to present to the
public.




SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN

Téléphone mobile:+243998983491
email                  : b.schombe at gmail.com
skype                 : b.schombe
blog                    : http://akimambo.unblog.fr
Site Web             : www.ticafrica.net





2012/11/8 Marilia Maciel <mariliamaciel at gmail.com>

> Hi all,
>
> I would like to start a thread of concrete suggestions for improving RP. I
> know all of us who participated remotely have our impressions of what could
> be better, so why not share them?
>
> My personal views about being a remote participant today - for the first
> time in the IGF - is that the webcast of all sessions and the captioning
> are tremendous tools, the existence of hubs multiplies IGF discussions, and
> the fact that RP is available to any individual in the world is a
> remarkable sign of openness. But, in spite of all the undeniable
> achievements, progress needs to be made to ensure inclusion of views of
> remote participants into the IGF debate.
>
> That difficulty, in my opinion, has to do with one main reason: In spite
> of the huge number of remote participants (47 hubs, more than 800 people
> last year), the *methodology of most workshop sessions* *remains unchanged
> *. We have not adjust to the new reality and the sessions are planned
> exclusively for those who are physically in the IGF. One possible reason
> for that could be that we have too many sessions on the schedule and too
> many issues to discuss. My feeling was that session moderators were so
> under pressure that, on the heat of the debate, they tended to see remote
> participants as an obstacle to "moving the discussion forward", not as IGF
> participants.
>
> Maybe* less and longer sessions* on IGF schedule would reduce pressure.
> Time pressure makes people impatient with the difficulties that non-native
> English speakers may have, or with occasional technical glitches, which we
> need to cope with, if we really want to include remote participants. It is
> up to us to decide what we value the most as a community: Speed of
> discussions? Inclusion? Sometimes they are in a trade-off.
>
> It would be important to r*educe the distance between remote participants
> and the session moderator*. Most session moderators don't remember to
> look at the screen and check if questions are popping up in Webex. So
> remote participants lose the "timing" of making interventions. Maybe we
> could establish a procedure so remote participants could *send questions
> to the session moderator before the IGF*, so he could incorporate some of
> them into his own set of questions to the panelists. For the "live"
> questions, the remote participation moderator should have a *clear visual
> way* to sign to the session moderator that a remote question has been
> asked, like raising a red flag. Of course, audio interventions need to be
> more encouraged, even if their moment needs to be carefully planned and
> agreed upon between the session moderators and the technical team.
>
> *There should not be a session without a remote moderator*. Imagine
> someone who blocked her agenda to participate in a workshop and then,
> surprise: you stay in a room talking to the walls. If remote participation
> is an integral part of the IGF, this is unacceptable. Workshops without
> remote moderators should not be approved (for real), and those physically
> present in the room should confirm if the moderator is indeed there. As a
> last resort, anyone could take the role of being a moderator in case the
> person is missing.
>
> My main point is that, in spite of the technical improvements that should
> always be made, *making remote participation inclusive is up to the
> community, especially of those who plan the sessions*. Some organizers
> did a great job in linking up with remote hubs, planing for the
> participation of remote speakers and participants. But I seems they were
> still a minority.
>
> To mention the *technical aspects*, to me the greater problem was lack of
> integration between webex, webcast and captioning. Going back and forth in
> different windows was not practical. On a positive side, the quality of the
> image of the webcast seemed to be better, and the cameras were placed in a
> better position inside the room. It helped to read facial and body
> expressions.
>
> One last point: some time ago, it was proposed that a task force would be
> created to *exchange knowledge and best practices regarding RP* with
> other organizations that have also been struggling and making progress at
> it, such as ITU (and many others as a matter of fact) in the UN. I don't
> know why it did not fly. I hope that political sensitivities do not hamper
> what could be a fruitful dialogue about a topic that is a common challenge.
>
> Best wishes and a safe journey to all returning from Baku!
>
> Marília
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 9:38 AM, Imran Ahmed Shah <ias_pk at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>> I was logged into Room #10 remotely, webex but there was no other
>> attendee.
>> The webex Schedule (as on 6th and 7th) has single first day pre-meeting
>> of 5th Nov but after refreshing promt appear for login and after login it
>> connected me Room #  7th Nov meeting.
>>
>> I keep trying to obtain response from Moderator (Ms Nina), but could not
>> established interactive response, and I do not know that have she read my
>> text input or not. I think Moderator was too busy in the meeting
>> physically and given zero importance to single Remote Participant. So, RP
>> was useless.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Imran
>> (for IGFPAK)
>>
>>
>>
>>   ------------------------------
>> *From:* Jean-Yves GATETE <gate.one205 at yahoo.fr>
>> *To:* "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>;
>> Rudi Vansnick <rudi.vansnick at isoc.be>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, 8 November 2012, 3:18
>> *Subject:* Re: [governance] IGF2012, Remote Connection
>>
>> Hi all,
>> as Mr Rudi, I ve been following via that webcast tool too. I have the
>> same problem too and the Room10 is not working either.
>>
>> Wishing you all the best,
>>
>> Jean-Yves GATETE
>>
>>    *De :* Rudi Vansnick <rudi.vansnick at isoc.be>
>> *À :* Crepin-Leblond Olivier <ocl at gih.com>
>> *Cc :* governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> *Envoyé le :* Jeudi 8 novembre 2012 10h54
>> *Objet :* Re: [governance] IGF2012, Remote Connection
>>
>> I've used the remote participation tools daily (till today). The webex
>> allows to participate through the chat and the Q&A windows, but the webcast
>> is always giving me the same error.
>> If I want to see the room I have to use the webcast tool (
>> http://webcast.igf2012.com/) , which is of course not fully synchronised
>> with the webex session. From room 6 till room 9 the audio in the webcast is
>> very low. With the volume on the max here I can hardly understand the
>> speakers.
>>
>> The descriptions of the rooms workshops in the webcast window is not
>> updated and gives sometimes wrong session information.
>>
>> Rudi Vansnick
>> ------------------ Internet Society Belgium  ---------------------
>> President - CEO                            Tel +32/(0)9/329.39.16
>> rudi.vansnick at isoc.be            Mobile +32/(0)475/28.16.32
>> Dendermondesteenweg 143            B-9070 Destelbergen
>> www.internetsociety.be        "The Internet is for everyone"
>>
>> Op 8-nov-2012, om 04:29 heeft Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond het volgende
>> geschreven:
>>
>> > I suppose rp has probably been flooded with enquiries.
>> > Since the beginning of the week, I saw Bernard run around trying to fix
>> > things.
>> > The remote participation computers running Webex are all wired in and
>> > appear to work well but the network sometimes goes through some periods
>> > of being very slow. This is when the WIFI works and guess what, the WIFI
>> > does not work well at all. In fact, I have spent complete afternoons
>> > without WIFI. (not enough IPv4 addresses to allocate -- and no IPv6
>> > connectivity at all in case you ask)
>> >
>> > Whilst so far, I have been super impressed with the host country, this
>> > is, in my opinion, the poorest Internet connectivity we've had at the
>> > venue in recent IGFs. <sigh>
>> >
>> > Kind regards,
>> >
>> > Olivier
>> >
>> > On 07/11/2012 00:04, Norbert Bollow wrote:
>> >> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 8:16 PM, shaila mistry <shailam at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>> Hi everyone
>> >>> I too have tried several times to participate. Each time I am sent a
>> >>> different route of downloads and logins , finally leading to a dead
>> end.
>> >>> Please advise what can be done ?
>> >>> Shaila Rao Mistry
>> >> Have you tried contacting
>> >>
>> >> "Remote Participation general help" <rp at intgovforum.org>
>> >>
>> >> ?
>> >>
>> >> Do they respond?
>> >>
>> >> If yes, what are they saying?
>> >>
>> >> If no, let us know, so that we can push locally for those help email
>> >> addresses to be handled in a meaningful way.
>> >>
>> >> In the long run, what we need is funding to put a competent person in
>> >> charge of ensuring in an ongoing manner (year after year) that IGF
>> >> remote participation is made available in a way that can be expected
>> >> to work (which presupposes learning from what went wrong in earlier
>> >> years, and it presupposes serious testing well before the first day of
>> >> the IGF). It is simply unacceptable for an entirely new technical team
>> >> to put in charge of remote participation every year, and the remote
>> >> participation infrastructure again and again being so absurdly
>> >> unreliable.)
>> >>
>> >> Greetings,
>> >> Norbert
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
>> > Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD
>> > http://www.gih.com/ocl.html
>> >
>> >
>> > ____________________________________________________________
>> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>> >    governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> > To be removed from the list, visit:
>> >    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> >
>> > For all other list information and functions, see:
>> >    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> > To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>> >    http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> >
>> > Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade
> FGV Direito Rio
>
> Center for Technology and Society
> Getulio Vargas Foundation
> Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
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From ms.narine.khachatryan at gmail.com  Fri Nov  9 06:37:33 2012
From: ms.narine.khachatryan at gmail.com (Narine Khachatryan)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 15:37:33 +0400
Subject: [governance] Re: Refugee Issue
In-Reply-To: <CALrvCLDQg=V5M4GkW3NaZAcS-xzoDkHZDB+czT7x6B1Ks3YU2A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPVtau=wsLHiwkT7Ogqbm1Bd+430rf83ukN1A6QEM_phv=i3DQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALrvCLDQg=V5M4GkW3NaZAcS-xzoDkHZDB+czT7x6B1Ks3YU2A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPVtaunVZ2uYTmiaDb4N6BeU26xj9DmwtN3sMkVz_oGKXN4XQg@mail.gmail.com>

Nobert,



Thank you very much for your quick response.



Of course, this is a very delicate subject, and without being familiar with
it, it very risky to make assumptions in already very tense atmosphere.
Verified links and trustworthy information are of utter importance in this
situation.



Undoubtedly, all efforts should be directed to establishing a constructive
dialog, which should not be dependent on the price of oil, but guided by
universal human values. The IGF is particularly aimed to promote these
universal human values.


Our common wish at this moment is the fulfillment of the goals of the 7th
IGF and its successful completion.



Truly,

Narine
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From iza at anr.org  Fri Nov  9 07:36:02 2012
From: iza at anr.org (Izumi AIZU)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 21:36:02 +0900
Subject: [governance] Civil Society outnumbered
Message-ID: <CA+YNoKgRBc35zACsKh0QKr0RPPJDkp2WMi3HqU+y1As2opn_pQ@mail.gmail.com>

Here is the number of participants by stakeholder groups, taken from
the closing speech by UN DESA.

Total - 1630

government - 429
technical - 161
private sector - 266
civil society - 541
international organizations - 96
media - 123
(this totals 1616, not 1630), but my note might be inaccurate.

He did not disclose regional breakdown.

I see few participation from Asia Pacific, Africa, and Latin and South
America, as an impression, especially, on the
speakers/panelists/moderators level.

Geographic position of Azerbaijan may be one factor, but also lack of
financial resources be another.

izumi

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From iza at anr.org  Fri Nov  9 07:36:04 2012
From: iza at anr.org (Izumi AIZU)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 21:36:04 +0900
Subject: [governance] MAG meeting this afternoon
Message-ID: <CA+YNoKhK4shakpt8EM9sv3YAEasfgKdTsyQeT+qSCap=ZAR4rg@mail.gmail.com>

There was no plan to have MAG meeting during this IGF, unlike the past ones.

In part, Secretariat did not have enough capacity in the beginning
days of IGF, which was usually the date. In part, no one at MAG
inquired or proposed MAG meeting.

Thinking that no MAG meeting when leave Baku is a big loss, I proposed
this morning to have ad hoc MAG meeting during lunch time. With very
short notice, a total of 22 people gathered and discussed our
take-aways of this IGF and also discussed about the way forward.

There will be more official minutes prepared and shared I hope, but we
reviewed this IGF with serious and critical views, around the duties
of MAG, as well as some logistical aspects. WE also discussed things
between now and February MAG meeting in Paris, agreed to work together
for practical and effective preparation.

I will report more later,

izumi

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From presidencia at internauta.org.ar  Fri Nov  9 07:52:25 2012
From: presidencia at internauta.org.ar (Presidencia Internauta)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 09:52:25 -0300
Subject: [governance] Civil Society outnumbered
In-Reply-To: <CA+YNoKgRBc35zACsKh0QKr0RPPJDkp2WMi3HqU+y1As2opn_pQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKgRBc35zACsKh0QKr0RPPJDkp2WMi3HqU+y1As2opn_pQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAH5-+WgKRVDvKAsUFb9TDjRP1J+rgdnH2iAJdzkqfN34YYc8Ow@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Izumi: I see your point of view and I agree with your line of thought.
As for those who live in LAC wish we could partipate many more, but as we
all know, the civil society organizations do not have sufficient financial
resources to be there. I I have expectations that this will change at some
point.
A big hug to everyone.

*Sergio Salinas Porto
Presidente Internauta Argentina
Asociación Argentina de Usuarios de Internet
<http://www.internauta.org.ar>/CTA <http://www.ctamdq.org.ar>
FLUI- Federación Latinoamericana de Usuarios de Internet
<http://www.fuilain.org/>
facebook:salinasporto
twitter:sergiosalinas
MSN/MSN YAHOO/Talk: salinasporto...
Skype:internautaargentina

Mobi:+54 9 223 5 215819 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting            +54
9 223 5 215819      end_of_the_skype_highlighting*




2012/11/9 Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org>

> Here is the number of participants by stakeholder groups, taken from
> the closing speech by UN DESA.
>
> Total - 1630
>
> government - 429
> technical - 161
> private sector - 266
> civil society - 541
> international organizations - 96
> media - 123
> (this totals 1616, not 1630), but my note might be inaccurate.
>
> He did not disclose regional breakdown.
>
> I see few participation from Asia Pacific, Africa, and Latin and South
> America, as an impression, especially, on the
> speakers/panelists/moderators level.
>
> Geographic position of Azerbaijan may be one factor, but also lack of
> financial resources be another.
>
> izumi
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
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>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
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From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de  Fri Nov  9 08:07:11 2012
From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang=22?=)
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2012 14:07:11 +0100
Subject: AW: [governance] Civil Society outnumbered
References: <CA+YNoKgRBc35zACsKh0QKr0RPPJDkp2WMi3HqU+y1As2opn_pQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID:  <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD5C8@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>

Is this the number of registered participants or of participants who really participated?
 
w
 

________________________________

Von: izumiaizu at gmail.com im Auftrag von Izumi AIZU
Gesendet: Fr 09.11.2012 13:36
An: governance
Betreff: [governance] Civil Society outnumbered



Here is the number of participants by stakeholder groups, taken from
the closing speech by UN DESA.

Total - 1630

government - 429
technical - 161
private sector - 266
civil society - 541
international organizations - 96
media - 123
(this totals 1616, not 1630), but my note might be inaccurate.

He did not disclose regional breakdown.

I see few participation from Asia Pacific, Africa, and Latin and South
America, as an impression, especially, on the
speakers/panelists/moderators level.

Geographic position of Azerbaijan may be one factor, but also lack of
financial resources be another.

izumi




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From iza at anr.org  Fri Nov  9 08:12:54 2012
From: iza at anr.org (Izumi AIZU)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 22:12:54 +0900
Subject: [governance] Indonesia for IGF 2013
Message-ID: <CA+YNoKi2sjdYpe2+Jz2_F-j4dDj55-mi=1XA-y9Jv+0o0KdGPA@mail.gmail.com>

Here's the note of speech by Indonesia Government's head of delegation,
Mr. Djoko Agung Harijadi.
Secretary of Director General of ICT Application, Ministry of
Commtmication and Information Technology, Indonesia (government)

----

Indonesia welcomes the outcome of the forum, which aims to foster the
sustainability ,,,,, of the Internet.

Indonesia is a strong believer in the role of Internet ins supporting
the development. 240 million people, spanning three time zones,

Support by our economic growth, spread penetration of Internet subscribers.

WE reiterate the commitment of ubiquitous Information Society.

Reiterate Indonesia’s interest to host the 8th IGF in 2013. It will be in Bali.

With strong support and coordination with International MSHs we will
be able to make the 8th IGF productive and meaningful.

followed by a video depicting Indonesia's wide spread use of Internet,
blog, and scenes from Bali, the site.

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From iza at anr.org  Fri Nov  9 08:14:02 2012
From: iza at anr.org (Izumi AIZU)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 22:14:02 +0900
Subject: [governance] Civil Society outnumbered
In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD5C8@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
References: <CA+YNoKgRBc35zACsKh0QKr0RPPJDkp2WMi3HqU+y1As2opn_pQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD5C8@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
Message-ID: <CA+YNoKjVvHHSJpe77maj_YDzAmCY0mG9XtSVeOnS0r2SfGTP1w@mail.gmail.com>

welll not sure, perhaps registered. as total did not change much from Day 1.

izumi


2012/11/9 "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang"
<wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de>:
> Is this the number of registered participants or of participants who really participated?
>
> w
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> Von: izumiaizu at gmail.com im Auftrag von Izumi AIZU
> Gesendet: Fr 09.11.2012 13:36
> An: governance
> Betreff: [governance] Civil Society outnumbered
>
>
>
> Here is the number of participants by stakeholder groups, taken from
> the closing speech by UN DESA.
>
> Total - 1630
>
> government - 429
> technical - 161
> private sector - 266
> civil society - 541
> international organizations - 96
> media - 123
> (this totals 1616, not 1630), but my note might be inaccurate.
>
> He did not disclose regional breakdown.
>
> I see few participation from Asia Pacific, Africa, and Latin and South
> America, as an impression, especially, on the
> speakers/panelists/moderators level.
>
> Geographic position of Azerbaijan may be one factor, but also lack of
> financial resources be another.
>
> izumi
>
>
>



-- 
                     >> Izumi Aizu <<
Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
Japan
www.anr.org

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From tapani.tarvainen at effi.org  Fri Nov  9 08:16:29 2012
From: tapani.tarvainen at effi.org (Tapani Tarvainen)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 17:16:29 +0400
Subject: [governance] Civil Society outnumbered
In-Reply-To: <CA+YNoKjVvHHSJpe77maj_YDzAmCY0mG9XtSVeOnS0r2SfGTP1w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKgRBc35zACsKh0QKr0RPPJDkp2WMi3HqU+y1As2opn_pQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8010CD5C8@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
 <CA+YNoKjVvHHSJpe77maj_YDzAmCY0mG9XtSVeOnS0r2SfGTP1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121109131629.GA24457@tarvainen.info>

1200 real participants, apparently.

On Nov 09 22:14, Izumi AIZU (iza at anr.org) wrote:

> welll not sure, perhaps registered. as total did not change much from Day 1.
> 
> izumi
> 
> 
> 2012/11/9 "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang"
> <wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de>:
> > Is this the number of registered participants or of participants who really participated?
> >
> > w
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > Von: izumiaizu at gmail.com im Auftrag von Izumi AIZU
> > Gesendet: Fr 09.11.2012 13:36
> > An: governance
> > Betreff: [governance] Civil Society outnumbered
> >
> >
> >
> > Here is the number of participants by stakeholder groups, taken from
> > the closing speech by UN DESA.
> >
> > Total - 1630
> >
> > government - 429
> > technical - 161
> > private sector - 266
> > civil society - 541
> > international organizations - 96
> > media - 123
> > (this totals 1616, not 1630), but my note might be inaccurate.
> >
> > He did not disclose regional breakdown.
> >
> > I see few participation from Asia Pacific, Africa, and Latin and South
> > America, as an impression, especially, on the
> > speakers/panelists/moderators level.
> >
> > Geographic position of Azerbaijan may be one factor, but also lack of
> > financial resources be another.
> >
> > izumi
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
>                      >> Izumi Aizu <<
> Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo
> Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
> Japan
> www.anr.org
> 

> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
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> 
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-- 
Tapani Tarvainen

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From suresh at hserus.net  Fri Nov  9 08:21:42 2012
From: suresh at hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 18:51:42 +0530
Subject: [governance] Civil Society outnumbered
In-Reply-To: <CAH5-+WgKRVDvKAsUFb9TDjRP1J+rgdnH2iAJdzkqfN34YYc8Ow@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YNoKgRBc35zACsKh0QKr0RPPJDkp2WMi3HqU+y1As2opn_pQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAH5-+WgKRVDvKAsUFb9TDjRP1J+rgdnH2iAJdzkqfN34YYc8Ow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <055A52B1-2778-4666-A3E8-E853861D07F4@hserus.net>

In such cases it is always expedient not to hold these at exotic locations and instead pick major airline hubs, even if these are in relatively developed countries.

Of course visa restrictions on various countries (or excessive paperwork in any case) might need to be slightly relaxed for conference participants .. but there are places that are airline hubs but don't need a visa from most countries in the world, such as Hong Kong for example.

--srs (iPad)

On 09-Nov-2012, at 18:22, Presidencia Internauta <presidencia at internauta.org.ar> wrote:

> Dear Izumi: I see your point of view and I agree with your line of thought.
> As for those who live in LAC wish we could partipate many more, but as we all know, the civil society organizations do not have sufficient financial resources to be there. I I have expectations that this will change at some point.
> A big hug to everyone.
> 
> Sergio Salinas Porto
> Presidente Internauta Argentina
> Asociación Argentina de Usuarios de Internet/CTA
> 
> 
> FLUI- Federación Latinoamericana de Usuarios de Internet
> facebook:salinasporto
> twitter:sergiosalinas
> MSN/MSN YAHOO/Talk: salinasporto...
> Skype:internautaargentina
> 
> 
> Mobi:+54 9 223 5 215819 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting            +54 9 223 5 215819      end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> 
> 
> 
> 2012/11/9 Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org>
>> Here is the number of participants by stakeholder groups, taken from
>> the closing speech by UN DESA.
>> 
>> Total - 1630
>> 
>> government - 429
>> technical - 161
>> private sector - 266
>> civil society - 541
>> international organizations - 96
>> media - 123
>> (this totals 1616, not 1630), but my note might be inaccurate.
>> 
>> He did not disclose regional breakdown.
>> 
>> I see few participation from Asia Pacific, Africa, and Latin and South
>> America, as an impression, especially, on the
>> speakers/panelists/moderators level.
>> 
>> Geographic position of Azerbaijan may be one factor, but also lack of
>> financial resources be another.
>> 
>> izumi
>> 
>> 
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> 
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> 
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>