FW: [governance] Twitter officially shutdown to Internet users in Pakistan

McTim dogwallah at gmail.com
Wed May 23 08:56:20 EDT 2012 

Is this caucus ready to accept "multilateralism" in IG?

If so, I'm out!

-- 
Cheers,

McTim
"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A
route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel

On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 7:41 AM, michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:
> Bill, I don't think that you responded to this below as yet although of
> course, I might have missed it.
>
> The questions which were sincerely meant (I just don't know and haven't had
> the opportunity to observe the discussions around these issues first
> hand), are not I think trivial since it would appear that significant
> portions of the US (and other) media and others seem to be taking the
> same positions as yours i.e
>     1. equating "oversight through an appropriate, democratic and
> participative multilateral body'" with "inter-governmental control over CIR"
> (which don't on the face of it appear to be equivalent) and
>     2. damning the suggestion of "oversight through an appropriate,
> democratic and participative multilateral body'" because of support from
> countries such as Iran and Pakistan (for which I couldn't find any evidence
> (for Iran and Pakistan at least) after some fairly extensive searching on
> Google--but perhaps I got the search terms wrong...
>
> I'm asking for some specific references to justify either or both positions.
>
> Tks,
>
> Mike
>
>  -----Original Message-----
> From: michael gurstein [mailto:recent:gurstein at gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 12:50 AM
> To: 'William Drake' : 'governance at lists.igcaucus.org'
> Subject: RE: [governance] Twitter officially shutdown to Internet users in
> Pakistan
> Actually Bill I did check Google with a variety of search terms and I
> couldn't find any references to this naming Pakistan or Iran as specific
> supporters of  "an appropriate, democratic and participative multilateral
> body.'" with or without the terms "appropriate" or "participative". Perhaps
> with your evidently superior knowledge you could provide the specifics which
> you appear to be quoting.
>
> Also, am I correct in understanding you to be asserting that indicating a
> support for "oversight" by "an appropriate, democratic and participative
> multilateral body'" is synonomous with taking a position for
> "inter-governmental control over CIR".
>
> I don't doubt that there is likely diplomatic code words involved here but
> at least on the face of it "oversight" is not synomyous with "control" and
> "appropriate" and "participative oversight" would suggest a process somewhat
> different from that implied by a simple assertion of "inter-governmental
> control".  But again you likely have superior knowledge here
> and some evidence or references to support this would be appreciated.
>
> Tks,
>
> M
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: William Drake [mailto:william.drake at uzh.ch]
> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 11:59 PM
> To: michael gurstein
> Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> Subject: Re: [governance] Twitter officially shutdown to Internet users in
> Pakistan
>
> Hi Mike
>
> On May 20, 2012, at 5:41 PM, michael gurstein wrote:
>
>
> Bill,
>
> Is this a fact that Iran and Pakistann have indicated that they  "would like
> 'the oversight of the Internet's critical technical and logical
> infrastructure" to be "transferred to an appropriate, democratic and
> participative multilateral body.'"
>
>
> Uh, yes..?  Both governments have made statements publicly and privately
> calling for intergovernmental control over CIR since WSIS phase I.
>  "Democratic" and "multilateral" have been consistent, the other words have
> varied, sometimes "suitable," "inclusive" etc.
>
>
> If so would it be possible to share the reference and if possible a listing
> of all the other countries that have similarly indicated this as a
> preference.
>
>
> Sorry, I don't have handy copies of the transcripts from every WSIS, WGIG,
> IGF, CSTD, ITU etc. meeting in which they and others have expressed their
> preferences, but I imagine if you dig around with a search engine of your
> choice you should find some stuff.
>
> Cheers
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: William Drake [mailto:william.drake at uzh.ch]
> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 8:36 AM
> To: michael gurstein
> Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> Subject: Re: [governance] Twitter officially shutdown to Internet users in
> Pakistan
>
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> Sorry, didn't think it was obscure.  These are among the governments that
> would like "the oversight of the Internet's critical technical and logical
> infrastructure" to be "transferred to an appropriate, democratic and
> participative multilateral body."  There's not much chance that such a body
> would produce a global treaty about Internet Rights/rights on the Internet
> that would constrain them, when what they plainly want is a mechanism that
> strengthens sovereign control and gives them international cover in taking
> such actions.
>
> Best,
>
> Bill
>
> On May 20, 2012, at 5:03 PM, michael gurstein wrote:
>
> Quite honestly Bill, the actual meaning/logic of your (I think meant
>
> to be) ironic comment escapes me (I read it four times and it still
>
> escapes me...
>
>
> (and by my reckoning had either or both of Iran and Pakistan signed on
>
> to some global treaty about Internet Rights/rights on the Internet (or
>
> something similar) it would I'm assuming, be even a wee bit more
>
> difficult for the respectie governments to act in this high-handed way
>
> by for example, giving those internally in opposition an international
>
> agreement to point to/argue for before the courts; and also give those
>
> externally who disagree with those actions some specific context for
>
> them to exercise their disagreement; or have I missed something here.
>
>
> M
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
>
> [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of William
>
> Drake
>
> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 7:39 AM
>
> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>
> Subject: Re: [governance] Twitter officially shutdown to Internet users in
>
> Pakistan
>
>
>
> On May 20, 2012, at 3:30 PM, Fouad Bajwa wrote:
>
>
> Twitter officially shutdown in Pakistan - Twitter Banned in Pakistan
>
> http://internetsgovernance.blogspot.com/2012/05/twitter-officially-sh
>
> u
>
> tdown-in-pakistan.html
>
>
>
> If only "the oversight of the Internet's critical technical and
>
> logical infrastructure" could be "transferred to an appropriate,
>
> democratic and participative multilateral body" so that Pakistan would
>
> not be forced to take unilateral action merely to shut out this evil
>
> monopolist that, with three other sites, controls "much of what is
>
> considered to be the Internet today by most people today".
>
>
>
> On May 13, 2012, at 12:25 AM, michael gurstein wrote:
>
>
>
> "The telecommunications minister has ordered the use of domain names
>
> ending with .ir" belonging to Iran, Asr Ertebatat reported.
>
>
> The order prohibits banks, insurance firms and telephone firms using
>
> foreign hosts for their sites or to inform their clients using
>
> foreign providers such as Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail or MSN, it said.
>
>
>
> If only "the oversight of the Internet's critical technical and
>
> logical infrastructure" could be "transferred to an appropriate,
>
> democratic and participative multilateral body" so that Iran would not
>
> be forced to take unilateral action merely to shut out these evil
>
> monopolists...
>
>
> We demand it!
>
>
>
>
>
>
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