[governance] NYT opinion by Vint Cerf: Internet Access is not a HR

[Ivar A. M. Hartmann]

"However, I think that it is wise separate this from the obligation
to refrain from hindering Internet access.

These are in my opinion part of two different types of human
rights."

I believe we're on the same page, except when it comes to this need for a
separation between two different types of Internet access right.
I agree that there are two different types of human rights:
negative/freedom/civil-political rights and positive/social/economic
rights.
Even if one accepts this distinction, however, it's inescapable that all
rights require some negative performances and some positive performances by
the state. Take the right to life, which most people would say is a
negative/freedom right. In order to adequately protect it, states must
maintain, among other things, a police force (to prevent, repress and
investigate crime). And this is by no means a negative performance. The
right to life as been interpreted in some jurisdictions (e.g. India) to
sometimes require the state to provide health care services. Again, not a
negative performance.
So even though a right may require from the state predominantly a negative
performance (such as the right to life) or predominantly a positive
performance (i.e. right to housing), all of them require the other type of
performance as well - albeit to a lesser degree or not as often.

So the issue for me is: a right to Internet access has which dimension as
more predominant?
I used to believe it was the negative one, but in the last 2 years I've
changed my mind.

The concerns shared by Riaz are most relevant and they illustrate the
difference between a legal right (one which can be abolished freely by the
legislator - to my knowledge, that is the case of the right to Internet
access in Finland and Estonia) and a constitutional right (not subject to
abolition or nearly complete restriction by the will of temporary political
majorities).

Best,
Ivar

On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 10:14, Riaz K Tayob <riaz.tayob at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
>
> On 2012/01/05 04:51 PM, Roland Perry wrote:
>
>> I think you also need something about "unless prohibited by law" (which
>> can also be a proxy of 'anti-social and illegal behaviour").
>>
>
> There are typically exceptions to rights, civil or human - no right is
> absolute. And then these would turn on what is illegal, unreasonable etc...
>
>
>  that's why it needs to be a "Civil right" not a "Human right".
>>
>
> what is the difference you are pushing for here? And what are its
> implications... perhaps I am missing something here...
>
>
>  After all, even this very open-minded mailing list has thrown people off
>> in the past for spamming or trolling. And does the right extend to convicts
>> in jail (who will undoubtedly use it to organise further crime and
>> jailbreaks?)
>>
>
> Pending your response above, the point is what is the nature of the
> "right" and its qualitative relationship to access. Even people who
> misbehave have a right to access to medicines, which is deemed as
> fundamental. In fact, if access to communication/info (as Norbert puts it)
> is regarded as so fundamental, then there would be a positive duty on the
> state to ensure that there is access even for the misbehaving.
>
> But this is theory. Perhaps the analogy is not appropriate, it does give
> indications: We live in a world where the rentier class is mighty and
> pushes so that even fundamental rights like health are held hostage so that
> poor people with treatable/preventable conditions cannot get access to
> cheap medicines (the same bunch that arranges the US 301 lobbied for no
> public health option in the US - so it is not just North South). What
> chance the right Norbert puts forward in this political economy?
>
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