[governance] Fwd: UN Human Rights Council [Possible Statement from IGC???]
William Drake
william.drake at uzh.ch
Wed Feb 29 07:28:50 EST 2012
Agreed, much better.
The HR panel is on now BTW http://www.unmultimedia.org/tv/webcast/index.html Chanel 11, and #FXInternet #HRC19 #APC
Bill
On Feb 29, 2012, at 5:39 AM, Adam Peake wrote:
> Agree. Much improved.
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 8:58 AM, Robert Guerra <rguerra at privaterra.org> wrote:
>> Rony,
>>
>> Nice rewrite :)
>>
>> Sala,
>>
>> If there's consensus on the revised language, suggest the text be posted in
>> the IGC website.
>>
>> Robert
>> --
>>
>> R. Guerra
>> Phone/Cell: +1 202-905-2081
>> Twitter: twitter.com/netfreedom
>> Email: rguerra at privaterra.org
>>
>> On 2012-02-28, at 6:48 PM, Koven Ronald wrote:
>>
>> Dear All --
>>
>> Herewith a proposed rewrite, attempting to simplify and clarify.
>>
>> Each paragraph of the original draft is followed in italics by a proposed
>> edited version.
>>
>> Best regards, Rony Koven
>>
>> Rights without borders – also known as human rights – have met their
>> technological twin in the form of the global Internet, a technology without
>> borders.
>>
>> The Internet has transformed the reality of human rights by creating a space
>> where communications can become universally participatory and truly flow in
>> all directions, regardless of frontiers, instead of the previous situation
>> in which information flows were largely top to bottom, flowing from content
>> creators to content consumers.
>>
>> The open architecture of the Internet creates a new global commons that
>> facilitates and enhances many pre-existing human rights, including but not
>> limited to rights of free expression, rights of information, petition,
>> association and assembly, creative rights, and the right to earn a
>> livelihood and contribute to the culture of society. Internet technology and
>> design choices simultaneously extend human interaction in multiple
>> directions regardless of borders, at a far lower cost, and on a more
>> democratic basis than previously imaginable.
>>
>> [Previous graf unchanged, adding the word “global” before “commons.”]
>>
>> This powerful symbiosis between natural birthrights and the nature of the
>> Internet as a rights-enhancing technology has caused discourse about the
>> Internet to incorporate many lofty attributes that are further fueled by
>> already being partially realized, causing (among other things) thought
>> leaders regarding the Internet to sometimes be referred to as “evangelists.”
>> Generally speaking, these rights-enhancing aspects have caused the Internet
>> to reach the loftiest planes of human hope, joining democracy and religion
>> at the level of promising “a more abundant life” for all, without the
>> prominent downsides often associated with some actual implementations of
>> government and religion.
>>
>> [Drop the previous graf. Religion should be left out of this.]
>>
>> The most powerful question to ask concerning human rights on the Internet is
>> not where these rights arise from or how they may be further enforced in
>> courts, but where any claimed “right” to interfere with the freedom of the
>> Internet arises from. How can such a right of interference with freedom of
>> expression be legitimately theorized, asserted and enforced? Because the
>> very nature of the Internet is to facilitate free expression, and given that
>> the Internet as a whole is both owner-less and international, how can any
>> single business, national government, or person obtain and enforce a right
>> to interfere with the international freedom of the Internet? Any lack of
>> clarity thought to exist by some regarding where human rights “come from”
>> simply pales in comparison to the lack of clarity of any asserted right to
>> interfere with the freedom of others on the Internet. Any hypothetical
>> “right to interfere” with inherent human rights of freedom of expression is
>> far more difficult to justify and explain than upholding the natural human
>> urge for self-expression and self-determination as a right. Thus, absent
>> highly exceptional circumstances, in a contest between interference and free
>> expression, free expression always has the better case, regardless of
>> whether free expression is thought of as an enforceable legal right or not.
>>
>> By its very nature, the Internet makes possible the facilitation of
>> universal free expression. Given that the Internet is both ownerless and
>> borderless, no single business, national government, or person has a right
>> to interfere with the worldwide freedom of the Internet. Any limit to the
>> natural human right of freedom of expression has become far more difficult
>> to justify and explain. Except in extraordinary circumstances that should be
>> as narrowly defined as possible, restrictions to freedom of expression on
>> and off line now seem even more illegitimate than ever.
>>
>> Access to the full benefits and promise of the Internet can be interfered
>> with or impeded at numerous levels and by numerous actors, including
>> businesses, governments, individuals, engineers, web designers,
>> administrators. Arguably, businesses are in the position to make more
>> choices that actually or potentially impair or impede human rights on the
>> Internet than government. Some “governmental” interference with the Internet
>> is driven by business concern lobbying, such that much “governmental”
>> interference can be attributed to businesses. Regardless of the relative
>> amounts of responsibility one may assess to each, it is extremely clear that
>> both governments and businesses can and are acting in ways that interfere
>> with the Internet, either by failing to fully understand the Internet, or by
>> pursuing narrow interests over the public interest as a whole. Any such
>> government or business that acts to impair or impede the global freedom of
>> the Internet should not be heard to claim that they “have the Internet” (in
>> the case of a nation that filters or otherwise interferes) or that they
>> “support the Internet” (in the case of a business acting in fact to impede
>> access to the full Internet, or censor content, etc.)
>>
>> The Internet can be interfered with or impeded at numerous levels and by
>> many actors, including businesses, governments, individuals, engineers, web
>> designers, administrators. Commercial interests are often better able to
>> impair or impede human rights on the Internet than governments. Some
>> ostensibly governmental interferences with the Internet are driven by
>> business lobbying. In other cases, businesses may mask the reality that they
>> are in fact imposing limits for political reasons dictated by governments.
>> Regardless of their relative responsibilities, both governments and
>> businesses can and have acted in ways that interfere with the Internet,
>> either out of failure to understand its nature and technology or in pursuit
>> of narrow interests. Those who interfere with global or local Internet
>> freedom should not be allowed to claim that they act in its support.
>>
>> Although Internet companies are obliged to abide by national legal rules of
>> host countries, they are even more obliged to follow global human rights
>> laws like freedom of expression than those national laws. Claims that
>> domestic laws require business cooperation with censorship, etc. should be
>> met with the assertion of higher laws and norms than those of a single
>> country.
>>
>> Although Internet companies must follow the laws of host countries, they are
>> also obliged to respect universal human rights, notably freedom of
>> expression. Claims that domestic laws require businesses to cooperate with
>> censorship or other restrictions should be countered by invoking the
>> obligations of national governments to honor the universal human rights
>> texts that bind them.
>>
>> In the general context of market freedom, the development of new
>> technologies will always precede the question of the extent of their
>> regulation. Yet, as human activity in the technology expands, some form of
>> regulation is inevitable, just as it is impossible to imagine cities without
>> any regulation, even though lack of regulation is possible in the
>> countryside or wilderness. However, the pace of innovation and expansion on
>> the Internet guarantees that no regulator can sufficiently keep pace. This
>> requires deep commitment to human rights on the part of engineers and others
>> who are creating the Internet in real time.
>>
>> The pace of development of contemporary communications technology in a
>> globalized free market seems bound to continue to outstrip the ability of
>> regulators to keep up. Some regulation seems inevitable, given the
>> complexity of modern societies. It will inevitably lag behind the pace of
>> innovation and expansion of the Internet. This requires deep commitment to
>> and understanding of human rights by the systems designers who modify the
>> Internet environment in real time.
>>
>> The pre-existing duty of all nations to support the diffusion of education
>> concerning human rights takes on a special urgency and importance in the
>> context of the Internet, because important structural and design decisions
>> regarding the Internet will always continue to be made by Internet engineers
>> and administrators at a speed and at a point in time where it is impossible
>> for detailed guidance or best practices to exist. In direct effect, the
>> “governance” of the Internet, in significant part, takes place in real time
>> and in diverse places, often by engineers and programmers making design
>> decisions, making a decentralized awareness and knowledge of human rights
>> norms by people working on the Internet especially critical to preventing
>> serious human rights issues from emerging. Knowledge about human rights,
>> like the Internet itself, is a form of power that not only can be
>> decentralized, but must be decentralized, given the diffuse points of
>> potential impact on rights on the Internet, and the lack of any centralized
>> ownership or control that can legitimately affect the whole.
>>
>> The obligation of all governments to promote knowledge of human rights has
>> taken on new urgency in the Internet era because basic structural and design
>> decisions about cyberspace will continue to be made by Internet engineers
>> and administrators at a speed that defies the possibilities of detailed
>> policy guidance or adoption of best practice norms. Understanding of human
>> rights must therefore be generalized so as to avert their inadvertent
>> compromise.
>>
>> Therefore, the IGC declares that the Internet is, and by rights ought to be,
>> a place for the full expression of human freedoms and equality, the IGC
>> condemns violations of human rights on the Internet and wherever else they
>> may occur, and the IGC calls upon the United Nations and all people to
>> support the utmost diffusion of education about human rights so that
>> developers, engineers, administrators and users of the Internet can maximize
>> the value of the Internet as an enhancement of the human experience for all
>> people, making ever more real the human flourishing that is both the reality
>> and the promise of the Internet, and doing so “without regard to frontiers.”
>>
>> The Internet Governance Caucus of the Internet Governance Forum therefore
>> declares that the Internet is, and by right ought to be, a place for the
>> full expression of human freedoms and equality. The IGC condemns violations
>> of human rights both on the Internet and elsewhere. The IGC calls upon the
>> United Nations and all people to support the widest spread of human rights
>> education so that those who continue to develop and use the Internet may
>> maximize its ability to enhance the human experience and to turn into
>> reality the promise of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights to do so
>> “through any media and regardless of frontiers.”
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com>
>> To: Adam Peake <ajp at glocom.ac.jp>; McTim <dogwallah at gmail.com>; Izumi AIZU
>> <iza at anr.org>
>> Cc: Paul Lehto <lehto.paul at gmail.com>; governance
>> <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
>> Sent: Tue, Feb 28, 2012 8:00 pm
>> Subject: [governance] Fwd: UN Human Rights Council [Possible Statement from
>> IGC???]
>>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> From this email, you will see that the Statement was put up for 48 hour
>> period, see email below.
>>
>> Sala
>>
>> However, to factor in your concerns, I have made a final call for
>> consensus.
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com>
>> Date: Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 8:28 AM
>> Subject: Re: UN Human Rights Council [Possible Statement from IGC???]
>> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org, Shahzad Ahmad <shahzad at bytesforall.pk>
>> Cc: Robert Guerra <rguerra at privaterra.org>
>>
>>
>> Thank you Paul for responding to the call to initiate a Draft which is no
>> easy feat especially trying to weave a complex topic that has numerous
>> issues to a cohesive succint statement.
>>
>> The Statement is now up on the Statement Workspace and open to comments and
>> contributions. Please note that we would like to release this and wrap this
>> up in time by at least the 29th February, 2012.
>>
>> Please visit: http://www.igcaucus.org/digressit/archives/34
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 10:07 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro
>> <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear All,
>>>
>>> I had asked the IGC whether people were interested in putting a statement.
>>> If we are, then this is a great time to initiate a draft so we can call for
>>> contributions and get feedback and put to the list for 48 hours through the
>>> statement workspace which can then be sent on. We would like to send a
>>> Statement by the 29th February, 2012.
>>>
>>> The 19th Regular Session of the Human Rights Council will take place
>>> between 27th February till 23rd March, 2012 see:
>>> http://www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/HRC/RegularSessions/Session19/Pages/19RegularSession.aspx
>>>
>>> Excerpt from Joy Liddicoat's email:
>>> Following on from the Special Rapporteur on Freedom of Expression’s annual
>>> report in 2011, an expert panel is being held during HRC 19. The session
>>> will take place on Wed 29 Feb and is being organised by the government of
>>> Sweden and OHCHR. APC will be attending and participating in the panel
>>> event.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We would like to reach out to others to find out who else might be
>>>>> planning on attending or making submissions (which are due Monday 13 Feb)
>>>>> and, if so, how we might be able to collaborate or support these. If you are
>>>>> making submissions or statements, we would encourage you to draw on and cite
>>>>> www.giswatch.org released in December 2011 which includes 55 country reports
>>>>> and other material as well as an introduction from Frank La Rue.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you are planning other activities, campaigns or events around the
>>>>> panel, please do let us know so that we can support or collaborate if
>>>>> possible.
>>>>>
>>>
>>> Given the numerous contributions and acclamations in relation to Human
>>> Rights on the list through the various threads, we should consider putting
>>> in a Statement. Any volunteers to initiate a draft?
>>>
>>> Another option is for people to concentrate on various aspects of human
>>> rights:-
>>>
>>> privacy
>>> security
>>> freedom of expression
>>> intellectual property
>>>
>>> or not but feel free to add your thoughts and contributions.
>>>
>>>
>>> Kind Regards,
>>> Sala
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 7:25 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro
>>> <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The Swedish Government was also responsible for getting it onto the
>>>> Agenda:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> See: http://www.sweden.gov.se/sb/d/15079/a/176945?setEnableCookies=true
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Swedish success in Geneva for freedom of expression on the Internet
>>>>
>>>> On Thursday, the UN Human Rights Council adopted by consensus a decision
>>>> to arrange a panel discussion on freedom of expression on the Internet at
>>>> its next session in March 2012. The decision was adopted on the initiative
>>>> of Sweden, with the support of over fifty states from throughout the world.
>>>> This will be the first time that the Council discusses the issue of freedom
>>>> of expression on the Internet.
>>>> "This is a major success for Sweden, which has pushed for the human
>>>> rights issue to apply online as well as offline", says Carl Bildt, Minister
>>>> for Foreign Affairs.
>>>> Earlier this year, the UN Special Rapporteur on the promotion and
>>>> protection of the right to freedom of opinion and expression, Frank La Rue,
>>>> presented a report on freedom of expression on the Internet. At the UN Human
>>>> Rights Council's session in June, Minister for Foreign Affairs Carl Bildt
>>>> gave a speech in support of several of the conclusions presented in La Rue's
>>>> report. Sweden's address won the support of a number of influential
>>>> countries, including India, Brazil and South Africa.
>>>> This is the background to how, at its 18th session which will conclude
>>>> today, the Council was able to decide to invite a panel of experts and
>>>> representatives of governments, the UN system, the business sector and civil
>>>> society to discuss the issue. This means that the issue of freedom of
>>>> expression on the Internet will be placed on the agenda of the UN Human
>>>> Rights Council for the first time.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 6:12 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro
>>>> <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear All,
>>>>>
>>>>> We can also put together a Statement before the 29th February, 2012 and
>>>>> use the link that Joy sent us to draw resources from. I also note that there
>>>>> has been alot of discussions around this theme specifically over the years.
>>>>>
>>>>> We can capture these thoughts in a statement. Any volunteers to put
>>>>> together a first draft for others to comment.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kind Regards,
>>>>> Sala
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 5:55 AM, Shahzad Ahmad <shahzad at bytesforall.pk>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Robert,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What exactly is the argument against human rights as an IGF theme?
>>>>>> Kindly do send a bit of background from the MAG consultation, if possible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best wishes & regards
>>>>>> Shahzad
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 19, 2012, at 10:19 PM, Robert Guerra <rguerra at privaterra.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Brett,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In regards to recommendation #3 - that "The Internet Governance Forum
>>>>>>> should be encouraged to make human rights its central theme", well, that was
>>>>>>> proposed at the open IGF MAG meeting that took place in Geneva this past
>>>>>>> week. Unfortunately, there was a lack of consensus on the proposal and it
>>>>>>> was not accepted.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As an alternative, many of the Civil Society participants in the
>>>>>>> meeting have suggested that Human Rights be one of the cross cutting themes
>>>>>>> at the 2012 IGF. That alternative
>>>>>>> is still being discussed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Between now and the next open consultation in May a coordinated
>>>>>>> effort is needed to make sure the existing MAG keeps that option open.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> regards
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Robert
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> R. Guerra
>>>>>>> Phone/Cell: +1 202-905-2081
>>>>>>> Twitter: twitter.com/netfreedom
>>>>>>> Email: rguerra at privaterra.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2012-02-19, at 12:06 PM, Brett Solomon wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks Joy,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Access put in a submission to the Human Rights Council ahead of the
>>>>>>>> High Level Panel on the Right to Freedom of Expression on the Internet (Feb
>>>>>>>> 29).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We decided to focus on digital security as a precursor for the
>>>>>>>> realization of Article 19 online, because without digital security, civil
>>>>>>>> society groups and human rights defenders in particular cannot act with
>>>>>>>> confidence, express their opinions safely or gain online access to the
>>>>>>>> broader constellation of human rights.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For those who are interested, our brief submission and
>>>>>>>> recommendations can be found here:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.accessnow.org/policy-activism/press-blog/access-tells-the-human-rights-council-to-protect-digital-rights
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It'd be good to know who else is planning to be in Geneva for the
>>>>>>>> actual Panel.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Brett
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Brett Solomon
>>>>>>>> Executive Director | Access
>>>>>>>> accessnow.org | rightscon.org
>>>>>>>> +1 917 969 6077 | skype: brettsolomon | @accessnow
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 7:50 PM, Joy Liddicoat <joy at apc.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Dear colleagues,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is a heads up about a forthcoming event at the UN Human Rights
>>>>>>>> Council (and apologies for any double ups in list postings).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Following on from the Special Rapporteur on Freedom of Expression’s
>>>>>>>> annual report in 2011, an expert panel is being held during HRC 19. The
>>>>>>>> session will take place on Wed 29 Feb and is being organised by the
>>>>>>>> government of Sweden and OHCHR. APC will be attending and participating in
>>>>>>>> the panel event.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We would like to reach out to others to find out who else might be
>>>>>>>> planning on attending or making submissions (which are due Monday 13 Feb)
>>>>>>>> and, if so, how we might be able to collaborate or support these. If you are
>>>>>>>> making submissions or statements, we would encourage you to draw on and cite
>>>>>>>> www.giswatch.org released in December 2011 which includes 55 country reports
>>>>>>>> and other material as well as an introduction from Frank La Rue.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you are planning other activities, campaigns or events around the
>>>>>>>> panel, please do let us know so that we can support or collaborate if
>>>>>>>> possible.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Joy Liddicoat
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Project Coordinator
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Internet Rights are Human Rights
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> www.apc.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>>>>>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>>>>>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
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>>>>>>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>>>>>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>>>>>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>>>>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>>>>>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>>>>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>>>>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>>>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>>>>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>>>>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>>>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>>>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>>>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>>>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>>>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
>>>>>
>>>>> Tweeter: @SalanietaT
>>>>> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
>>>>> Cell: +679 998 2851
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
>>>>
>>>> Tweeter: @SalanietaT
>>>> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
>>>> Cell: +679 998 2851
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
>>>
>>> Tweeter: @SalanietaT
>>> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
>>> Cell: +679 998 2851
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
>>
>> Tweeter: @SalanietaT
>> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
>> Cell: +679 998 2851
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
>>
>> Tweeter: @SalanietaT
>> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
>> Cell: +679 998 2851
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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>>
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>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
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>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
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>
> ____________________________________________________________
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