[governance] Yes! Hands off the Internet!

Suresh Ramasubramanian suresh at hserus.net
Sat Dec 29 19:13:24 EST 2012 

I fully agree there.  However, if you take the Russian proposal to its logical end, every one of us is disenfranchised, with only governments having a say.

--srs (iPad)

On 30-Dec-2012, at 4:47, "Michael Leibrandt" <michael_leibrandt at web.de> wrote:

> I do not think that the right to vote given to uneducated people, to people without any knowledge about politics and therefore looking for the candidate with the best haircut, to people who do not support the concept of democracy, or even to those people who want to have Hitler back, is in the public interest of Germany. Nevertheless I will always defend their right to vote in local, regional, federal or european elections. Because the concept of particpation, if taken serious, is based on openness, inclusion, and not asking for motives. Besides that, I tend to use the term "global public interest" more carefully. If you have a global communiction media on the one hand side, and a non-harmonized global set of norm and values on the other, it's quite obvious that there is a need to reflect regional public interest in the Internet, and this includes content issues.
> 
> Michael, Berlin
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suresh Ramasubramanian" <suresh at hserus.net>
> To: <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>; "michael gurstein" <gurstein at gmail.com>
> Cc: "Michael Leibrandt" <michael_leibrandt at web.de>; <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
> Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 9:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [governance] Yes! Hands off the Internet!
> 
> 
> Do you expect china, Russia or the Arab states to govern in the global public interest?
> 
> --srs (iPad)
> 
> On 29-Dec-2012, at 13:57, "michael gurstein" <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Michael,
>> 
>> My point in including Google in the "rogues gallery" is simply to highlight
>> the central role that Google was playing in the recent Internet
>> Freedom/Hands off the Internet campaign... My point conerning Facebook is
>> linked to the fact that FB because of its very size and scope (market
>> dominance?) is taking on (for some at least) a quasi official status (the
>> official election results in Ghana were first announced on FB for example).
>> 
>> But overall my intention was to point to the hypocrisy of the overwhelming
>> campaigns from certain governments and certain elements of the private
>> sector, civil society, and the technical community concerning "hands off the
>> Internet" when it comes from certain directions (such as the governments of
>> China or Russia) while the same folks choose to ignore (or at least draw no
>> connection with) quite blatant and parallel intrusions rather closer to
>> home.
>> 
>> The issue of course, for those with a sincere interest in the well-being of
>> the Internet, is not "hands off the Internet" but rather to develop means
>> for ensuring that the Internet is "managed" in the global public interest by
>> all parties.
>> 
>> M
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Michael Leibrandt [mailto:michael_leibrandt at web.de]
>> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 11:46 PM
>> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; michael gurstein
>> Subject: Re: [governance] Yes! Hands off the Internet!
>> 
>> Hi Michael,
>> 
>> If your local car dealer rejects to sell you a car, or if the local night
>> club doesn't let you in, there isn't much you can do about it. Private
>> providers of goods and services are generally free to decide whom to serve.
>> At least until it becomes an act of discrimination, e. g. against blacks,
>> gays or jews. Or if the provider has a monopoly (clearly not the case for
>> Google or Facebook), or has such a strong market position that it can
>> actually control the market.
>> 
>> So to compare government action and company behaviour is quite difficult.
>> But there is already enough hypocrisy to think about with regard to
>> stakeholders of the same category ;-)
>> 
>> Michael, Berlin
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "michael gurstein" <gurstein at gmail.com>
>> To: <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 12:17 AM
>> Subject: [governance] Yes! Hands off the Internet!
>> 
>> 
>>> (from today's various Internet news feeds....
>>> 
>>> Yes, for sure, these hands off the Internet.
>> http://www.worldcrunch.com/culture-society/china-tightens-internet-control-b
>> ans-anonymity-allows-government-to-delete-posts/censorship-online-twitter-we
>>> ibo-xinhua-/c3s10510/#.UN2qcI7896I
>>> http://tinyurl.com/cryyx5l
>>> 
>>> And these
>> http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121228/07170621508/fisa-is-renewed-with-a
>>> ll-its-problems-still-intact.shtml
>>> http://tinyurl.com/d7trx4j
>>> 
>>> And these
>> http://torrentfreak.com/google-removed-50-million-pirate-search-results-this
>>> -year-121228/
>>> http://tinyurl.com/d7trx4j
>>> 
>>> And these
>> http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2012/12/washingtons-blog-facebook-censors-pro
>>> minent-political-critics.html
>>> http://tinyurl.com/cn72l3v
>>> 
>>> Maybe a New Year's Resolution: Enough with the hypocrisy!
>>> 
>>> M
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----
>> 
>> 
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