[governance] Re: Telecom TV on Google and Taxes

Adam Peake ajp at glocom.ac.jp
Thu Dec 13 03:58:32 EST 2012 

Anyone on the list own Google shares?

What would you do if Google paid a few billions of dollars in
voluntary tax and the value of your shares dropped?

Adam





On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 5:50 PM, michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:
> Adam,
>
>
>
> I`m curious why you think this… I would have thought that governments are
> pretty much impervious to this kind of `lobbying` (jaded from experience)
> while corporations that have as their slogan things like `don`t be evil`
> might be extremely sensitive to this kind of public comment on their
> behaviour by Civil Society.
>
>
>
> M
>
>
>
> From: apeake at gmail.com [mailto:apeake at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Adam Peake
> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 9:36 AM
> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> Subject: Re: [governance] Re: Telecom TV on Google and Taxes
>
>
>
> -1
>
>
>
> write to politicians.  to google would be just posturing.
>
>
>
> Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 1:40 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro
> <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 5:33 PM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
> wrote:
>
>
> Rather shameful that google paid 3 percent tax on its overseas profit!! It
> surely leaves it with a lot of money to spend in lobbying and advocacy
> efforts to keep global markets free for its unlettered operations... Like
> organising campaigns against ITU, German legislature, and so on.
>
> Would IGC write an open letter to Google that its tax evasion policy is anti
> people, and it should pays its taxes where it makes its profit. (Or is it
> that the IG civil society does not go into such re-distributional questions
> )   It is not rhetorical but a real question to the list, and its
> coordinator.
>
>
>
> What does the list think?
>
> +1 if you think the IGC should write a letter to Google
>
> -1 if the IGC should not write a letter to Google
>
>
>
> As always the IGC decides
>
>
>  parminder
>
> On Wednesday 12 December 2012 09:37 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote:
>
> More on Bloomberg:
> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-10/google-revenues-sheltered-in-no-tax-bermuda-soar-to-10-billion.html
>
> On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 4:48 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro
> <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Somehow it feels that there is a targeted media campaign out against the
> likes of Google and other mncs - the timing of the release is almost
> impeccable with the WCIT.
>
>
>
> Source:
> http://www.telecomtv.com/comspace_newsDetail.aspx?n=49763&id=e9381817-0593-417a-8639-c4c53e2a2a10
>
>
>
> Google “can make money without doing evil” (as it evades $2bn in taxes)
>
> Posted By TelecomTV One , 12 December 2012 | 1 Comments |    (0)
>
>
> Tags: Google corporate tax Finance
>
> As the net closes around the multinationals that avoid paying corporation
> taxes, Google is accused of saving $2bn by routing income through a “Double
> Irish Dutch Sandwich”, paying tax of just 3.2 per cent on its overseas
> profits. Guy Daniels reports.
>
> Three questions. One; where do you stand on the subject of tax avoidance? We
> at TelecomTV believe that individuals and corporations have a duty to pay
> their fair share of tax. By fair, we mean whatever respective governments
> rule to be the legal requirement (after all, in most countries, we voted the
> politicians in to office). By all means try and mitigate the amount of tax
> you have to pay, using whatever accepted mechanisms are available. But
> avoidance? That just means somebody else (with far less access to expensive
> and clever advisors) has to contribute to your share as well.
>
>
>
> Second question: how do you define evil? The Oxford English Dictionary
> defines evil as “profoundly immoral and wicked” or “something which is
> harmful or undesirable”. In my book, that means tax avoidance is evil,
> simple as that.
>
>
>
> Third and final question: Is Google evil? If you believe that avoiding tax
> is wrong (especially through aggressive and mind-boggling complicated
> avoidance schemes) and if you believe that depriving society of tax revenues
> is wrong (and so reducing the level of available State support for the most
> needy) and could be described as an evil act, then surely you must conclude
> that Google is acting in an evil manner.
>
>
>
> An investigative report by Bloomberg has discovered that Google avoided
> about $2 billion in worldwide income taxes in 2011 by shifting $9.8 billion
> in revenues into a Bermuda shell company – almost double its total from
> three years ago. The information was disclosed in a November filing by a
> Google subsidiary in the Netherlands, which was discovered by reporters from
> Bloomberg.
>
>
>
> It appears that Google legally routed profits from overseas subsidiaries
> into Bermuda, which doesn’t have a corporate income tax, thereby enabling it
> to cut its overall tax rate almost in half. Bloomberg says the amount moved
> to Bermuda is equivalent to about 80 per cent of Google’s total pretax
> profit in 2011.
>
>
>
> Tax evasion and avoidance costs the European Union a staggering €1 trillion
> a year. That’s worth dwelling on for a moment longer…. €1 trillion. No
> wonder politicians are now acting to try and prevent this financial loss and
> branding such acts as scandalous and immoral.
>
>
>
> Bloomberg has a good quote from a UK-based tax accountant, which pretty much
> sums up the feeling in Europe at the moment. According to Richard Murphy of
> Tax Research:
>
>
>
> “The tax strategy of Google and other multinationals is a deep embarrassment
> to governments around Europe. The political awareness now being created in
> the UK, and to a lesser degree elsewhere in Europe, is: It’s us or them.
> People understand that if Google doesn’t pay, somebody else has to pay or
> services get cut.”
>
>
>
> Just look what happened to Starbucks. When the public discovered the US
> coffee giant paid zero taxes in the UK (yes, absolutely nothing at all), it
> started to boycott the chain.
>
> Advertisement
>
> As a result, Starbucks was forced to “volunteer” to pay taxes…
>
>
>
> The UK is Google’s second-biggest market, responsible for about 11 per cent
> of its sales. Of the $4 billion it turned over last year, it paid UK
> corporation tax of less than $10 million. Bloomberg says Google avoids tax
> by using an Irish subsidiary to collects revenues from ads sold in the UK,
> which then pays royalties to another Irish subsidiary whose legal residence
> is in Bermuda. Payments are then sent to yet another subsidiary in the
> Netherlands (with no employees, note) before finally reaching the tax haven
> of Bermuda.
>
>
>
> Sounds pretty ‘evil’ to me. And if so, then that’s against the internet
> company’s guiding principles. Stated clearly on the “Ten Things We Know to
> be True” page on Google’s website is the following:
>
>
>
> “You can make money without doing evil.”
>
>
>
> I’m sorry, Google, but I don’t see how avoiding tax is anything but evil. Of
> course you – and all companies – have a duty to shareholders to maximise
> profits. But there are rules. Some of these are merely ethical, whilst some
> are legal. There is no indication or suggestion that Google has acted
> illegally, but there is every suggestion that it has acted unethically.
>
>
>
> And who said you can’t have ‘ethical companies’? Of course you can. I don’t
> buy the ‘extreme capitalist’ viewpoint that corporations will only act in
> self-interest and never “do the right thing” or pay their fair share. If
> their customers start to boycott their services, then they’ll change. It
> happened with the sudden emergence of all the so-called ‘corporate
> responsibility’ positions that all featured heavily in annual reports. I
> don’t see why it can’t happen with fair tax positions.
>
>
>
> Other ICT companies reported in the media to be using this complicated tax
> evasion (sorry lawyers, of course I mean ‘mitigation’…) structure include
> Apple, Facebook, Microsoft and Oracle. Unfortunately, Google – and all the
> others, who no doubt will soon be named and shamed – will continue their
> sharp practices until they are forced to make a change. If governments can’t
> do that through the legal process, then it’s up to customers to vote with
> their feet and walk away from Google services. As Richard Murphy said,
> consumers are beginning to get the message that it’s “us or them”, and we’re
> already being squeezed by the many austerity measures that are in effect to
> drag us out of recession.
>
>
>
> Come on Google, time to step up to the plate and show some leadership. Pay
> your fair share. And then the rest of the ICT industry can do likewise. Or
> else remove that fatuous and out-dated “don’t do evil” slogan from your
> website once and for all.
>
>
>
> Further reading: The Pearse Trust blog has a detailed explanation of the
> so-called “Double Irish Dutch Sandwich” tax scheme. Please don’t try and
> implement it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
>
> P.O. Box 17862
>
> Suva
>
> Fiji
>
>
>
> Twitter: @SalanietaT
>
> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
>
> Tel: +679 3544828
>
> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> --
>
> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
>
> P.O. Box 17862
>
> Suva
>
> Fiji
>
>
>
> Twitter: @SalanietaT
>
> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
>
> Tel: +679 3544828
>
> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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