[governance] Hmmmm... Google: "Internet Freedom!"... (from taxes?

[parminder]

On Thursday 06 December 2012 07:08 PM, McTim wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 7:15 AM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net 
> <mailto:parminder at itforchange.net>> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>     One needs to do more than say I/we are for "internationalising
>     ICANN". That would be merely rhetoric unless one is ready to
>     present (and engage with) a credible plan and roadmap, which all
>     those, whom Riaz may call as "US exceptionalists" and I often call
>     as "US apologists", have never done here. Have they ever? IF they
>     have, please point me to it.
>
>
> Please see Drake's reply to you the last time we talked about this.  I 
> don't have a link however.

McTim, it is you who is advocating a particular kind on ICANN 
internationalism, and therefore you must tell us the road map, at least 
the outlines of it.... you cant vaguely refer to 'some email of Bill 
Drake' and not remember what was it about. That is as a strange a reply 
as I have ever got...

>
>
>     No, it isnt enough to say that the US should just terminate the
>     ICANN contract (including the IANA part) . One needs to propose
>     under what kind of arrangement will the new internationalised
>     ICANN get institutionalised and subsist.
>
>
>
> Why?  Isn't a "free-floating" ICANN the next major step in the ongoing 
> evolution?

Because nothing free floats without some kind of anchorage in a 
polity...... But if you want to, you may describe your vision of a free 
floating ICANN giving some details and we can discuss it.

>
>     One needs at least framework level indications/ details. Would it
>     still be headquarter-ed in the US. If so what kind of immunities
>     would it have from US jurisdiction, and how will they be ensured?
>
>
> Evolution means a series of minor changes, this would be several steps 
> down the road, and unless ICANN HQ is moved to the moon (or perhaps a 
> private island [we could call it "Internetistan"] purchased with new 
> gTLD monies) there will always be a jurisdictional issue.  Of course, 
> if ICANN became an IGO of the UN system then your requirements might 
> be met, but none of us ( I think) want an "intergovernmental only" ICANN.

So, you are saying that your version of 'internationalised ICANN' will 
remain subject  to US jurisdiction. Well, as you might suspect, that is 
not internationalisation in my view. I cant see on what basis you call 
it internationalisation... I would call it 'phoney 
internationalisation'. As I have said often, one adverse decision by a 
US court on an ICANN policy or action, and this whole phoney thing will 
come unravelled. Why wait for it when we know it is around the corner.....
>
>
>     It is very central to the internationalisation issue that neither
>     the US executive nor its courts are able to interfere with ICANN's
>     decisions.
>
>
>
> It is central to your version of "internationalisation", not to all 
> versions.

That solves the original problem which was your challenge to Riaz (and 
your frustration that he hasnt taken your earlier challenges on the same 
issue) to  show to you anyone on the list who is against 
'Internationalising ICANN' or rather who is an 'US exceptionalist'. We 
see now that the simple fact is that you and Riaz mean very different 
things when they use these expressions.

parminder

>
> It would be enough for the moment if we could get everyone on the list 
> to stop top-posting and trim your mails, that would be a useful next step!
>
> -- 
> Cheers,
>
> McTim
> "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A 
> route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel

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