[governance] Tangential (On Exceptionalism Wikileaks) America's vassal acts decisively and illegally
Carlos Vera Quintana
cveraq at gmail.com
Sat Aug 18 19:58:51 EDT 2012
Ecuadorian gov. Express to Mr Assange he is welcome to Ecuador from the begining of rhis affair. If he only would listen from that time this political advise...
Carlos Vera
Enviado desde mi iPhone
El 18/08/2012, a las 18:26, Ginger Paque <ginger at paque.net> escribió:
> A very important point is stated at http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11949341
> This would appear to make the extradition unnecessary.
>
> This doesn't mean that the sexual misconduct charges should not be investigated (whatever they actually are: I don't know).
>
> 18 November 2010
>
> Stockholm District Court approves a request to detain Mr Assange for questioning on suspicion of rape, sexual molestation and unlawful coercion. Sweden's Director of Prosecution Marianne Ny says he has not been available for questioning.
>
> Mr Assange's British lawyer Mark Stephens says his client offered to be interviewed at the Swedish embassy in London or Scotland Yard or via video link. He accuses Ms Ny of "abusing her powers" in insisting that Mr Assange return to Sweden.
>
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>
>
> On 18 August 2012 18:47, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote:
> meant to say *from various extradition treaties
>
> On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote:
> A fundamental principle in criminal law is that only if Sweden had already laid charges and served this on him physically, then they can begin to make demands. As for extradition requests of this nature or obligations stemming from various extraditions can only kick in after the charge has been served on the person and the usual summons to attend trial.
>
> Question is were charges laid against Assange?
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 10:53 AM, Carlos Vera Quintana <cveraq at gmail.com> wrote:
>> facing his responsibilities re: the sexual misconduct charges
>
> Do you know that: the misconduct is about not inform both girls he was no using protection in the sexual relation? It's not about other actions from Assange
>
> I wonder how this girls does not were aware of this by themself
>
> This is a very particular case in Sweden legislation I guess...
>
> Carlos Vera
> Enviado desde mi iPhone
>
> El 18/08/2012, a las 17:24, Ginger Paque <ginger at paque.net> escribió:
>
>> Aldo,
>> I think it is very important that facing his responsibilities re: the sexual misconduct charges, should not put Assange in danger of real or imagined charges in the WikiLeaks matter.
>>
>> But three, not two worst-case scenarios are possible:
>> 1. Assange is turned over to a third country to face unrelated charges, when he is sent to Sweden to face charges of sexual misconduct.
>> 2. Assange does not get a fair trial on the sexual misconduct charges, because of prejudice about the WikiLeaks case.
>> **3. Assange does not face charges of sexual misconduct, because he is using the WikiLeaks situation as a shield. Victimless crimes might easily be settled by plea bargaining, or through justice at a discount. I don't think rape should be included in this possibility. Assange should have a chance to face his accusers, and defend himself, or pay the price, if he is guilty.
>>
>> As you (Aldo) point out, there are other options than sending Assange to Sweden or not sending him to Sweden. (As Norbert points out realistically in another post). Possible strategies:
>> --Questioning in the UK.
>> --Video questioning.
>> --Remote video questioning, real-time, in a courtroom.
>> I am sure legal experts can come up with other more creative, and workable options to allow the sexual misconduct charges to be fully and clearly aired, without endangering Assange's political rights.
>>
>> I admire Assange. I am glad he has the courage to carry out his WikiLeaks work. I don't think he should be persecuted, or face politically motivated harassment or charge.
>> I don't think being a legitimate social hero allows him to avoid facing charges of rape if the are legitimate.
>>
>> I'm not sure this has anything to do with IG. But I do think it is important.
>>
>> Ginger
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 18 August 2012 14:00, Aldo Matteucci <aldo.matteucci at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ginger,
>>
>> the question is not whether the allegations are true - factual issues we can't decide.
>> The question is whether Sweden, acting as proxy, will take that excuse to jail him for good and throw away the key.
>> After all, that's what the US want.
>>
>> My feeling is that there is some truth in the criminal matter
>> but that Assange would not get a "fair" trial, in the sense that the usual discretionary possibilities will be denied to him.
>> One fears a self-righteous Swede - see Bergman movies.
>>
>> Don't forget: over 90% of the cases are plea-bargained in the US. It is normal to get "justice at a discount". Why not here?
>>
>> Aldo
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 18 August 2012 19:22, Ginger Paque <ginger at paque.net> wrote:
>> The Assange case is a very interesting mix of politics, diplomacy and legal details.
>>
>> It would seem that the UK can in fact sever diplomatic relations, close Ecuadorian embassy and process Assange who, unlike Ecuadorian diplomats, does not have diplomatic immunity. My question is: are political issues more important than diplomatic and legal issues? Can Assange be investigated on possible criminal actions, but still protected from political harassment? I am finding it hard to find an assessment of the rape charges, which I find to be very worrisome if they are true. I can support Assanges' political situation and Wikileaks activities and still want to see him held accountable/investigated for sexual misconduct if that is a well-founded allegation.
>>
>> There is a summary and discussion 'The Assange asylum case: possible solutions and probable consequences' (from a diplomatic viewpoint) going on at: http://www.diplomacy.edu/blog/assange-asylum-case-possible-solutions-and-probable-consequences
>>
>> I would like read a discussion of a possibility to investigate the sexual misconduct charges, while guaranteeing that this will not lead to / or be mixed with the Wikileaks situation. What are feminists saying?
>>
>> Cheers, Ginger
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 18 August 2012 08:05, Mawaki Chango <kichango at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thanks Riaz for keeping us informed about this.
>>
>> Mawaki
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 3:41 AM, Riaz K Tayob <riaz.tayob at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > America's vassal acts decisively and illegally
>> >
>> > Craig Murray is an author, broadcaster and human rights activist. He was
>> > British Ambassador to Uzbekistan from August 2002 to October 2004 and Rector
>> > of the University of Dundee from 2007 to 2010.
>> >
>> > http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/08/americas-vassal-acts-decisively-and-illegally/
>> >
>> > I returned to the UK today to be astonished by private confirmation from
>> > within the FCO that the UK government has indeed decided – after immense
>> > pressure from the Obama administration – to enter the Ecuadorean Embassy and
>> > seize Julian Assange.
>> >
>> > This will be, beyond any argument, a blatant breach of the Vienna Convention
>> > of 1961, to which the UK is one of the original parties and which encodes
>> > the centuries – arguably millennia – of practice which have enabled
>> > diplomatic relations to function. The Vienna Convention is the most
>> > subscribed single international treaty in the world.
>> >
>> > The provisions of the Vienna Convention on the status of diplomatic premises
>> > are expressed in deliberately absolute terms. There is no modification or
>> > qualification elsewhere in the treaty.
>> >
>> > Article 22
>> >
>> > 1.The premises of the mission shall be inviolable. The agents of the
>> > receiving State may not enter them, except with the consent of the head of
>> > the mission.
>> > 2.The receiving State is under a special duty to take all appropriate steps
>> > to protect the premises of the mission against any intrusion or damage and
>> > to prevent any disturbance of the peace of the mission or impairment of its
>> > dignity.
>> > 3.The premises of the mission, their furnishings and other property thereon
>> > and the means of transport of the mission shall be immune from search,
>> > requisition, attachment or execution.
>> >
>> > Not even the Chinese government tried to enter the US Embassy to arrest the
>> > Chinese dissident Chen Guangchen. Even during the decades of the Cold War,
>> > defectors or dissidents were never seized from each other’s embassies.
>> > Murder in Samarkand relates in detail my attempts in the British Embassy to
>> > help Uzbek dissidents. This terrible breach of international law will result
>> > in British Embassies being subject to raids and harassment worldwide.
>> >
>> > The government’s calculation is that, unlike Ecuador, Britain is a strong
>> > enough power to deter such intrusions. This is yet another symptom of the
>> > “might is right” principle in international relations, in the era of the
>> > neo-conservative abandonment of the idea of the rule of international law.
>> >
>> > The British Government bases its argument on domestic British legislation.
>> > But the domestic legislation of a country cannot counter its obligations in
>> > international law, unless it chooses to withdraw from them. If the
>> > government does not wish to follow the obligations imposed on it by the
>> > Vienna Convention, it has the right to resile from it – which would leave
>> > British diplomats with no protection worldwide.
>> >
>> > I hope to have more information soon on the threats used by the US
>> > administration. William Hague had been supporting the move against the
>> > concerted advice of his own officials; Ken Clarke has been opposing the move
>> > against the advice of his. I gather the decision to act has been taken in
>> > Number 10.
>> >
>> > There appears to have been no input of any kind from the Liberal Democrats.
>> > That opens a wider question – there appears to be no “liberal” impact now in
>> > any question of coalition policy. It is amazing how government salaries and
>> > privileges and ministerial limousines are worth far more than any belief to
>> > these people. I cannot now conceive how I was a member of that party for
>> > over thirty years, deluded into a genuine belief that they had principles.
>> >
>> > ***
>> >
>> > Published on The Nation (http://www.thenation.com)
>> >
>> > The Geopolitics of Asylum
>> >
>> > Tom Hayden | August 16, 2012
>> >
>> > The British a “huge mistake” in threatening to extract Julian Assange from
>> > Ecuador’s London embassy after the Latin American country granted political
>> > asylum to the WikiLeaks foundaer yesterday, says international human rights
>> > lawyer Michael Ratner. “They overstepped, looked like bullies, and made it
>> > into a big-power versus small-power conflict,” said Ratner, president of the
>> > Center for Constitutional Rights, in an interview with The Nation today.
>> > Ratner is a consultant to Assange’s legal team and recently spent a week in
>> > Ecuador for discussions of the case.
>> >
>> > The diplomatic standoff will have to be settled through negotiations or by
>> > the International Court of Justice at The Hague, Ratner said. “In my memory,
>> > no state has ever invaded another country’s embassy to seize someone who has
>> > been granted asylum,” he said, adding that there would be no logic in
>> > returning an individual to a power seeking to charge him for political
>> > reasons.
>> >
>> > Since Assange entered the Ecuadorian embassy seven weeks ago, Ecuadorian
>> > diplomats have sought the assurance through private talks with the British
>> > and Swedes that Assange will be protected from extradition to the United
>> > States, where he could face charges under the US Espionage Act. Such
>> > guarantees were refused, according to Ecuador’s foreign minister, Ricardo
>> > Patiño, who said in Quito that the British made an “explicit threat” to
>> > “assault our embassy” to take Assange. “We are not a British colony,” Patiño
>> > added.
>> >
>> > British Foreign Secretary William Hague said yesterday that his government
>> > will not permit safe passage for Assange, setting the stage for what may be
>> > a prolonged showdown.
>> >
>> > The United States has been silent on whether it plans to indict Assange and
>> > ultimately seek his extradition. Important lawmakers, like Senator Diane
>> > Feinstein, a chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee, have called for
>> > Assange’s indictment in recent weeks. But faced with strong objections from
>> > civil liberties and human rights advocates, the White House may prefer to
>> > avoid direct confrontation, leaving Assange entangled in disputes with the
>> > UK and Sweden over embarrassing charges of sexual misconduct in Sweden.
>> >
>> > Any policy of isolating Assange may have failed now, as the conflict becomes
>> > one in which Ecuador—and a newly independent Latin America—stand off against
>> > the US and UK. Ecuador’s president Rafael Correa represents the wave of new
>> > nationalist leaders on the continent who have challenged the traditional US
>> > dominance over trade, security and regional decision-making. Correa joined
>> > the Venezuelan-founded Bolivarian Alternative for the Americas in June 2009,
>> > and closed the US military base in Ecuador in September 2009. His government
>> > fined Chevron for $8.6 billion for damages to the Amazon rainforest, in a
>> > case which Correa called “the most important in the history of the country.”
>> > He survived a coup attempt in 2010.
>> >
>> > It is very unlikely that Correa would make his asylum decision without
>> > consulting other governments in Latin America. An aggressive reaction by the
>> > British, carrying echoes of the colonial past, is likely to solidify Latin
>> > American ranks behind Quito, making Assange another irritant in relations
>> > with the United States.
>> >
>> > Earlier this year, many Central and Latin American leaders rebuked the Obama
>> > administration for its drug war policies and vowed not to participate in
>> > another Organization of American States meeting that excluded Cuba. Shortly
>> > after, President Obama acted to remove his Latin American policy chief, Dan
>> > Restrepo, according to a source with close ties to the Obama administration.
>> > Now the Assange affair threatens more turmoil between the United States and
>> > the region.
>> >
>> > ***
>> >
>> > http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/2012/08/196589.htm
>> >
>> >
>> > Victoria Nuland
>> >
>> > Spokesperson
>> >
>> > Daily Press Briefing
>> >
>> > Washington, DC
>> >
>> > August 16, 2012
>> >
>> > TRANSCRIPT:
>> >
>> > 12:44 p.m. EDT
>> >
>> > MS. NULAND: Happy Thursday, everybody. Let’s start with whatever’s on your
>> > minds.
>> >
>> > Q: Do you have any thoughts at all on the decision by Ecuador to grant
>> > diplomatic asylum to Mr. Assange?
>> >
>> > MS. NULAND: This is an issue between the Ecuadorans, the Brits, the Swedes.
>> > I don't have anything particular to add.
>> >
>> > Q: You don't have any interest at all in this case other than as of a
>> > completely neutral, independent observer of it?
>> >
>> > MS. NULAND: Well, certainly with regard to this particular issue, it is an
>> > issue among the countries involved and we're not planning to interject
>> > ourselves.
>> >
>> > Q: Have you not interjected yourself at all?
>> >
>> > MS. NULAND: Not with regard to the issue of his current location or where he
>> > may end up going, no.
>> >
>> > Q: Well, there has been some suggestion that the U.S. is pushing the Brits
>> > to go into the Ecuadorian embassy and remove him.
>> >
>> > MS. NULAND: I have no information to indicate that there is any truth to
>> > that at all.
>> >
>> > Q: Do -- and the Brits -- Former Secretary Hague said that the Brits do not
>> > recognize diplomatic asylum. I'm wondering if the United States recognizes
>> > diplomatic asylum, given that it is a signatory to this 1954 OAS treaty
>> > which grants -- or which recognizes diplomatic asylum, but only, presumably,
>> > within the membership of the OAS. But more broadly, does the U.S. recognize
>> > diplomatic asylum as a legal thing under international law?
>> >
>> > MS. NULAND: Well, if you're asking for -- me for a global legal answer to
>> > the question, I'll have to take it and consult 4,000 lawyers.
>> >
>> > Q: Contrasting it with political asylum. This is different, diplomatic
>> > asylum.
>> >
>> > MS. NULAND: With regard to the decision that the Brits are making or the
>> > statement that they made, our understanding was that they were leaning on
>> > British law in the assertions that they made with regard to future plans,
>> > not on international law. But if you're asking me to check what our legal
>> > position is on this term of art, I'll have to take it, Matt, and get back to
>> > you.
>> >
>> > Q: Yeah, just whether you do recognize it outside of the confines of the --
>> > of the OAS and those signatories.
>> >
>> > And then when you said that you don't have any information to suggest that
>> > you have weighed in with the Brits about whether to have Mr. Assange removed
>> > from the embassy, does that mean that there hasn't been any, or just that
>> > you're not aware of it?
>> >
>> > MS. NULAND: My information is that we have not involved ourselves in this.
>> > If that is not correct, we'll get back to you.
>> >
>> > [...]
>> >
>> >
>> > Q: All right. And then just back to the Assange thing, the reason that the
>> > Ecuadorians gave -- have given him asylum is because they say that -- they
>> > agree with his claim that he would be -- could face persecution --
>> > government persecution if for any reason he was to come to the United States
>> > under whatever circumstances. Do you -- do you find that that's a credible
>> > argument? Does anyone face unwarranted or illegal government persecution in
>> > the United States?
>> >
>> > MS. NULAND: No.
>> >
>> > Q: No?
>> >
>> > MS. NULAND: No.
>> >
>> > Q: And so you think that the grounds that -- in this specific case, the
>> > grounds for him receiving asylum from any country -- or any country
>> > guaranteeing asylum to anyone on the basis that if they happen to show up in
>> > the United States they might be subject to government persecution, you don't
>> > view that as --
>> >
>> > MS. NULAND: I'm not -- I'm not going to comment on the Ecuadoran thought
>> > process here. If you're asking me whether there was any intention to
>> > persecute rather than prosecute, the answer is no.
>> >
>> > Q: OK.
>> >
>> > MS. NULAND: OK?
>> >
>> > Q: Well -- wait, hold on a second -- so you're saying that he would face
>> > prosecution?
>> >
>> > MS. NULAND: Again, I'm not -- we were in a situation where he was not headed
>> > to the United States. He was headed elsewhere. So I'm not going to get into
>> > all of the legal ins and outs about what may or may not have been in his
>> > future before he chose to take refuge in the Ecuadoran mission.
>> >
>> > But with regard to the charge that the U.S. was intent on persecuting him, I
>> > reject that completely.
>> >
>> > Q: OK, fair enough. But I mean, unfortunately, this is -- this case does
>> > rest entirely on legal niceties. Pretty much all of it is on the legal
>> > niceties, maybe not entirely. So are you -- when you said that the intention
>> > was to prosecute, not persecute, are you saying that he does face
>> > prosecution in the United States?
>> >
>> > MS. NULAND: Again, I don't -- that was not the course of action that we were
>> > all on. But let me get back to you on -- there was -- I don't think that
>> > when he decided to take refuge, that was where he was headed, right?
>> > Obviously, we have --
>> >
>> > Q: No, I mean, he was headed to Sweden.
>> >
>> > MS. NULAND: Right, but obviously, we have our own legal case. I'm going to
>> > send you Justice on what the exact status of that was, OK?
>> >
>> > Q: OK, there is -- so you're saying that there is a legal case against him.
>> >
>> > MS. NULAND: I'm saying that the Justice Department was very much involved
>> > with broken U.S. law, et cetera. But I don't have any specifics here on what
>> > their intention would have been vis-a-vis him. So I'm not going to wade into
>> > it any deeper than I already have, which was too far, all right?
>> >
>> > Q: (Chuckles.) OK, well, wait, wait, I just have one more, and it doesn't
>> > involve the -- it involves the whole inviability (sic) of embassies and that
>> > kind of thing.
>> >
>> > MS. NULAND: Right.
>> >
>> > Q: You said that -- at the beginning that you have not involved yourselves
>> > at all. But surely if there -- if you were aware that a country was going to
>> > raid or enter a diplomatic compound of any country, of any other country,
>> > you would find that to be unacceptable, correct?
>> >
>> > MS. NULAND: As I said --
>> >
>> > Q: I mean, if the Chinese had gone in after -- into the embassy in Beijing
>> > to pull out the -- your -- the blind lawyer, you would have objected to
>> > that, correct?
>> >
>> > MS. NULAND: As I said at the beginning, the -- our British allies have cited
>> > British law with regard to the statements they've made about potential
>> > future action. I'm not in a position here to evaluate British law,
>> > international -- as compared to international law.
>> >
>> > So I can't -- if you're asking me to wade into the question of whether they
>> > have the right to do what they're proposing to do or may do under British
>> > law, I'm going to send you to them.
>> >
>> > Q: Right, but there's -- but it goes beyond British law. I mean, there is
>> > international law here too, and presumably the United State would oppose or
>> > would condemn or at least express concerns about any government entering or
>> > violating the sovereignty of a diplomatic compound anywhere in the world,
>> > no?
>> >
>> > MS. NULAND: Again, I can't speak to what it is that they are standing on
>> > vis-a-vis Vienna Convention or anything else. I also can't speak to what the
>> > status of the particular building that he happens to be in at the moment is.
>> > So I'm going to send you to the Brits on all of that. You know where we are
>> > on the Vienna Convention in general, and that is unchanged. OK?
>> >
>> > Q: OK. Well, when the Iranians stormed the embassy in Teheran, back in 1979,
>> > presumably you thought that was a bad thing, right?
>> >
>> > MS. NULAND: That was a Vienna-Convention-covered facility and a
>> > Vienna-Convention-covered moment. I cannot speak to any of the rest of this
>> > on British soil. I'm going to send you to Brits. OK?
>> >
>> > Q: A very quick follow-up. You said there is a case against him by the
>> > Justice Department. Does that include --
>> >
>> > MS. NULAND: I did not say that. I said that the Justice Department is
>> > working on the entire WikiLeaks issue. So I can't -- I can't speak to what
>> > Justice may or may not have. I'm going to send you to Justice.
>> >
>> > Q: Is there a U.S. case against him?
>> >
>> > MS. NULAND: I'm going to send you to Justice, because I really don't have
>> > the details. OK? Thanks, guys.
>> >
>> > (The briefing was concluded at 1:19 p.m.)
>> >
>> > DPB #146
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ____________________________________________________________
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>> --
>> Aldo Matteucci
>> 65, Pourtalèsstr.
>> CH 3074 MURI b. Bern
>> Switzerland
>> aldo.matteucci at gmail.com
>>
>>
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