[governance] India's communications minister - root server misunderstanding (still...)

[Daniel Kalchev]

On Aug 9, 2012, at 1:15 PM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> wrote:

> 
>>  Further, resolver operators, once made aware of inappropriate changes to the root, could take steps if they so desired to address the issue (e.g., point their resolvers at different root servers).  The implied chaos of all of this in and of itself would make "ridiculously" turn into "ludicrously" (or more directly: "it ain't gonna happen").
> 
> The whole argument is based on the proposition that the US gov, and presumably US people are not stupid, but other countries (not only China and Russia) can hardly be trusted.... My democratic instinct doesnt allow me to accept this. Such arguments based on such narrow politico-cultural logics are unsustainable, and are in fact, distasteful.

Since it was me, who gave "China and Russia" as examples and you didn't comment my post, but include this assumption here, let me put this in some perspective.

First, I don't believe either China, or Russia could be considered any less "trustworthy" parties than say, the USA. At least, they are not that financially dependent on third parties.

Second, there is no doubt, that *today* both China and Russia exercise practices, that your "democratic instinct" should immediately "recognise" as non-democratic. Yet, in these countries sometimes such "non-democratic" actions are considered completely normal and logical. By the way, much of these practices are hardly visible from outside.

Third, let's imagine for a moment, that the situation was reversed. That it was (say) Russia that was in control more or less, of the root server operations, IANA was an Russian Government agency and ICANN was an Moscow or Novosibirsk registered corporation. The "three non-US root server operators" were situated in Bulgaria, Cuba and China (most probably run by SS-type structure). How would be your proposal to "diversify to Africa, the USA and say, France" viewed by the Russian powers-that-are?

Stupid - no. Less mature - sometimes. Trustworthy - if it matches their interests of the day.

Finally, let me remind you, that I do understand the russian way of thinking way better than you could imagine and didn't present this opinion lightly. Can't say the same for China, but have my observations and while they are different -- don't spark much confidence.

In any case, it is to me, who will judge whose politics and practices are more adequate.

> Uh, back to people with (nefarious) political agendas versus good ones with only neutral technical views and advice :).... Well, to dispel such constructions was one of my MAIN reasons for this discussion. Please note that the only reasonable counter arguments that has been given to my proposal of relocating root server operatorship - whether by Daniel or Ian - are POLITICAL ones. (Even your arguments above are political). So can I once again request the technical community to give up this holier-than-thou attitude - we know the technical facts, if only others will listen. We are primarily discussing politics here. lets be clear. Technical facts remain important, but they should not take the veneer of superiority (and, accordingly, the bearers of technical facts). 

You read these counter arguments as political, because, apparently your whole construct is based on politics. Step for a moment from the political soapbox and you will see there are very valid technical reasons to fight this political nonsense.

Splitting the DNS root is extremely serious technical challenge and difficult to resolve technical problem. We could live with split DNS root in the early days of Internet, but today, more and more protocols depend on DNS consistency. Any serious flaws in the DNS management (the non-technical part) will mark the DNS technology "not trusted" and will lead to needs for other technologies to be developed in order for Internet to continue growing (in technological sense). This is a lot of work and will cost enormous resources.

It is just cheaper, in both technical sense and in political sense to leave the DNS root server system as it is now. (correct, I added the political aspect for your convenience and emphasys)

>>  
>>> - whereby, it is useful to redistribute root server operator-ship among agencies that together are more likely to resist US unilateralism. 
>> Knock yourself out.  There are 12 organizations you can talk to to convince them they should give up their root server(s).  If you'd like contact information, let me know. If you do pursue this, I (honestly) wish you luck -- my interactions with the root server operators most typically spike my blood pressure, but that's probably just me.
> 
> The world is not just based on private interest based private contracts. Our basic social systems and structures - and Internet is now certainly such a system, will be governed by social contract and pubic law.

However "nice" this sounds, everyday life and history prove it is not true. Each and every human being is motivated by strictly personal and private interests and about the only reason why each human sacrifices his intrinsic freedoms is to comply with the atavistic need to have the human race survive. Almost all abuse used by politicians over the millennia is based on convincing individuals that whatever stupid things they do, it is for their ancestors's sake.


> If something is the right thing for all of us, we will find ways to do it. On the other hand, it is not about my arguing with a private operator. It is about normative view of what is right and what not.... You undervalue the strength of say, a very large part of civil society, and many if not all of tech community, solidly taking a stand that - yes, the present CIR management system is unfair and undemocratic.

Just what would the "civil society" do, when the DNS root is split? Go on demonstrations?
Collect "me too" petitions on Facebook? Write to their Congressman? Start the October Revolution?

In contrast, the "private interest" root server operator(s) can and do a lot for this not to happen.

By the way, this whole discussion reminds me again, why I dislike politics.

Daniel


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