[governance] critique of the IBSA proposal

[Paul Lehto]

On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 10:52 PM, Rui Correia <correia.rui at gmail.com> wrote:

> Paul, Ivar
>
> There NEVER was ANY law in Brazil that prohibited making fun of
> candidates.
>
> What there was, was a prohibition - in terms of Pagraph 2 of Article 45 of
> the Election Law - against manipulation, montage or other, of video clips or
> sound bites so as to degrade or humiliate candidates or political parties.
>

"Degrade" or "humiliate"  -- that means being on the *receiving* end of
political critique, political satire, and biting political humor, and
finding it to be "not funny."

So, the speech being prohibited is either the satire or political cartooning
I was referring to, or in any case it is political speech that a politician
finds degrading or humiliating.    There is an even stronger case for rights
protection whenever something is political speech and *not* having the
lightness of also being entertaining or funny.

But here again it is out of the frying pan and into the fire if we are to
dispense with government.  Try degrading or humiliating the private sector
boss in employment.   And, it is easier for laws to be passed outlawing  the
"degradation" or "humiliation" of powerful folks in the private sector than
it is for politicians, because  in every country I'm familiar with,
constitutional protections either don't apply in the private sector or are
greatly diminished.

Public sector:  Perhaps corrupt, often misguided, but changeable contrary to
the will of politicians, even if that change is frequently quite hard to
accomplish.

Private sector:  Perhaps corrupt, often misguided, and not changeable
against the will of the owners.

Paul Lehto, J.D.


>
>
>
> 2011/9/18 Paul Lehto <lehto.paul at gmail.com>
>
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 4:56 PM, Ivar A. M. Hartmann <
>> ivarhartmann at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I would by default oppose a global body of IG run by gov representatives
>>> which is either suggested by Brazilian gov or influenced by it in any way.
>>> Just as an example, Brazilian law prohibited people from making jokes
>>> about politicians running for office during election periods. This was in
>>> force up until a year ago until the Supreme Court (not Congress, mind you)
>>> decided to put an end to it.
>>>
>>
>> In the public sector (government), at least a Supreme Court, as in the
>> Brazilian example above, can correct a policy.
>>
>> But, in the private sector there will be no such correction, *ever, and
>> they too have "no joking" rules.*
>>
>> Using employment as an example, private sector bosses often have rules of
>> "no joking about the boss or the boss's interests or you will be fired".  In
>> every country I know of, such private sector "no joking" rules are
>> enforceable law.  Not only that, but there isn't even a reasonable chance
>> that the power of the private sector boss to prohibit satire and joking will
>> be open for *debate* anytime soon, much less that the ban on private sector
>> joking would change.  But *in Brazil's government, the no joking policy
>> changed, *thanks to the Brazilian Supreme C*ourt.**
>>
>> Even internet providers terms of service will have non-disparagement
>> clauses and the like.  So, if you are effective enough ridiculing something
>> important to the private sector internet provider, you can have your
>> connectivity terminated.  If your anti-telcom humor is ineffective or no one
>> listens, I grant that you may have an illusion of "freedom" and you might
>> not be terminated.  (That's just the freedom to be irrelevant, not the
>> freedom to joke about or satirize the telcom.)
>>
>> To oppose all government involvement is not only completely
>> anti-democratic, but in the case of the "freedom to joke" it is like going
>> out of the frying pan and into the fire.
>>
>> *--
>> Paul R Lehto, J.D.
>> P.O. Box 1
>> Ishpeming, MI  49849
>> lehto.paul at gmail.com
>> 906-204-4026 (cell)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
> --
> _________________________
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> Rui Correia
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> Angola Liaison Consultant
>
> _______________
>
>
>


-- 
Paul R Lehto, J.D.
P.O. Box 1
Ishpeming, MI  49849
lehto.paul at gmail.com
906-204-4026 (cell)
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