From gurstein at gmail.com  Mon Jan 31 21:02:58 2011
From: gurstein at gmail.com (Michael Gurstein)
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 18:02:58 -0800
Subject: [governance] FW: [liberationtech] Egypt's last ISP, Noor, just went
 offline
Message-ID: <A51B60BF106C42039715E652D8858C53@userPC>

-----Original Message-----
From: liberationtech-bounces at lists.stanford.edu
[mailto:liberationtech-bounces at lists.stanford.edu] On Behalf Of Douglas
Finley
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 4:50 PM
To: Jillian C. York
Cc: Liberation Technologies
Subject: Re: [liberationtech] Egypt's last ISP, Noor, just went offline


An article about tweeting by phone.


http://techcrunch.com/2011/01/31/twitter-by-phone-egypt/
It was only last week that Google acquired
<http://techcrunch.com/2011/01/25/google-buys-voice-messaging-startup-saynow
/>  SayNow, a voice messaging startup, They're already putting them to good
use. I mean really good use.

As they've just announced
<http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2011/01/some-weekend-work-that-will-hopefull
y.html>  on the Google Blog, the search giant has teamed up with the
incoming SayNow team and Twitter to create a simple speak-to-tweet service
for people currently engulfed in the turmoil in Egypt.


On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Jillian C. York <jilliancyork at gmail.com>
wrote:


SMS is unavailable by all accounts. 


On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 4:42 PM, Erik Sundelof <erik at sundelof.com> wrote:


All,

Is there any text message capabilities in Egypt currently or is that
completely shut down? If there is still some SMS service , is international
SMS available?

Best,

Erik
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.sundelof.com

Jillian C. York wrote: 

Reports just now that Noor, the last remaining ISP online in Egypt over the
past few days, has just gone down.

-- 

Berkman Center for Internet and Society |
https://cyber.law.harvard.edu/people/jyork
jilliancyork.com | @jilliancyork | tel: +1-857-891-4244





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-- 

Berkman Center for Internet and Society |
https://cyber.law.harvard.edu/people/jyork
jilliancyork.com | @jilliancyork | tel: +1-857-891-4244




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From jeremy at ciroap.org  Mon Jan 31 21:51:49 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 10:51:49 +0800
Subject: [governance] Revised version of statement on themes for Nairobi
In-Reply-To: <20110130081217.EC00715C195@quill.bollow.ch>
References: <EEC26B4A-AFA8-49E4-AFE5-F53BBFAF310D@ciroap.org> <20110130081217.EC00715C195@quill.bollow.ch>
Message-ID: <418971A1-B213-4B42-BCB6-422A493CA585@ciroap.org>

On 30/01/2011, at 4:12 PM, Norbert Bollow wrote:

>> 1. Open Internet - Network Neutrality on Wired and Mobile Networks
>> Open Internet (or Network Neutrality) describes an ideal in which
>> the openness of the Internet to the broadest possible range of
>> commercial and non-commercial content, applications and services is
>> maintained.  An open Internet is one that supports development,
>> promotes Access to Knowledge, and resists perpetuating the power of
>> old media and telecommunications empires on the new network.
> 
> Please add something like
> 
> "An open internet is based on open standards in such a way that it
> also resists the creation of any new monopolies in the area of
> information and communication technologies."

Once the consensus call is in progress, I can normally only accept minor and uncontroversial changes to the text.  Although I agree with this addition as a normative statement, it is not usually part of the definition of open Internet or network neutrality.  If the theme is accepted for Nairobi then we should be sure to make open standards a part of it, but at this stage I'm not inclined to modify the statement on which the consensus call has been made.

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.

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From charityg at diplomacy.edu  Mon Jan 31 22:37:03 2011
From: charityg at diplomacy.edu (Charity Gamboa)
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 21:37:03 -0600
Subject: [governance] EFF Uncovers Widespread FBI Intelligence
 Violations
In-Reply-To: <4D45CB0B.7050307@eff.org>
References: <541ABB9C4E384A24A9425D0C7EF695C2@userPC>
	<AANLkTink+L_kZpdbhQ_nT_WJ3q-=pFg1PFbaVJTLmKv3@mail.gmail.com>
	<o3qDvXLCjcRNFARU@internetpolicyagency.com>
	<4D45CB0B.7050307@eff.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=4doqK-r5uY-LZMJ3t1EhMPYSavU7HHW4LH1=z@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I am assuming that this was based on a CNN news report [
http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/01/27/siu.fbi.internal.documents/index.html]. I
saw the news report on TV on my way out of the office last week (actually
stopped and watched it). What struck me the most was the gravity of the
offense with only a suspension. Those people swore to uphold the law -
"*fidelity,
bravery and integrity*." FBI officials defended those offenses by saying
they're only humans and they make mistakes. A mistake is putting the wrong
number on the form and what they did was a deliberate violation of the rules
that they should follow. If regular people like me follow the speed limit
for instance, people who uphold the law should do the same thing. I'd hate
to pay $180 bucks for a speeding ticket. I don't think there are exceptions
to that rule. Shocking...Uncle Sam takes a lot of taxes from me and taxes
pay my wages, too,  but I'd like to think that people in that same situation
should at least work on that thing they call *integrity*...that is. Sure
hope Congress does something.

Btw Kati, the link for the final report does not seem to work. I would be
interested to read EFF's report but the link [
https://www.eff.org/files/EFF%20IOB%20Report_Final%20Version.pdf] says "*page
not found*."

Thanks!

Regards,
Charity

On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 2:33 PM, Katitza Rodriguez <katitza at eff.org> wrote:

>
>
> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/01/eff-releases-report-detailing-fbi-intelligence
>
> EFF has uncovered widespread violations stemming from FBI intelligence
> investigations from 2001 - 2008. In a report<https://www.eff.org/pages/patterns-misconduct-fbi-intelligence-violations>released today, EFF documents alarming trends in the Bureau’s intelligence
> investigation practices, suggesting that FBI intelligence investigations
> have compromised the civil liberties of American citizens far more
> frequently, and to a greater extent, than was previously assumed.
>
> Using documents obtained through EFF's Freedom of Information Act (FOIA)
> litigation <https://www.eff.org/foia/intelligence-agencies-misconduct>,
> the report finds:
>
> • *Evidence of delays of 2.5 years, on average, between the occurrence of
> a violation and its eventual reporting to the Intelligence Oversight Board
> *
>
> • *Reports of serious misconduct by FBI agents including lying in
> declarations to courts, using improper evidence to obtain grand jury
> subpoenas, and accessing password-protected files without a warrant*
>
> • *Indications that the FBI may have committed upwards of 40,000 possible
> intelligence violations in the 9 years since 9/11*
>
> EFF's report stems from analysis of nearly 2,500 pages of FBI documents,
> consisting of reports of FBI intelligence violations made to the Intelligence
> Oversight Board<https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/President%27s_Intelligence_Advisory_Board#Intelligence_Oversight_Board>— an independent, civilian intelligence-monitoring board that reports to the
> President on the legality of foreign and domestic intelligence operations.
> The documents constitute the most complete picture of post-9/11 FBI
> intelligence abuses available to the public. Our earlier analysis of the
> documents showed the FBI's arbitrary disclosure practices<https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/12/fbi-arbitrarily-covers-evidence-misconduct>.
>
>
> EFF's report underscores the need for greater transparency and oversight in
> the intelligence community. As part of our ongoing effort<https://www.eff.org/issues/foia>to inform the public and elected officials about abusive intelligence
> investigations, we are distributing copies of the report to members of
> Congress.
>
> A pdf copy of the report can be downloaded here<https://www.eff.org/files/EFF%20IOB%20Report_Final%20Version.pdf>.
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
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>
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From dogwallah at gmail.com  Mon Jan 31 22:52:41 2011
From: dogwallah at gmail.com (McTim)
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 06:52:41 +0300
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [afnog] 39/8 and 106/8 allocated to APNIC
In-Reply-To: <CE9F39E5-7D4B-4209-BA25-8B30BD6EFE45@icann.org>
References: <CE9F39E5-7D4B-4209-BA25-8B30BD6EFE45@icann.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTingJC+3hAmsCA47Xct==z0iA9oDp1jAm22w-f-L@mail.gmail.com>

For those of you who don't pay close attention, what the below message
means is that IANA IPv4 exhaustion will probably happen today.

One of each of the last 5 blocks goes to each respective RIR.

, --
Cheers,

McTim
"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A
route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Leo Vegoda <leo.vegoda at icann.org>
Date: Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 3:02 AM
Subject: [afnog] 39/8 and 106/8 allocated to APNIC
To: AfNOG <afnog at afnog.org>


Hi,

The IANA IPv4 registry has been updated to reflect the allocation
of two IPv4 /8 blocks to APNIC in January 2011: 39/8 and 106/8.

 39/8   APNIC   2011-01 whois.apnic.net ALLOCATED
106/8   APNIC   2011-01 whois.apnic.net ALLOCATED

You can find the IANA IPv4 registry at:

http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space/ipv4-address-space.xml
http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space/ipv4-address-space.xhtml
http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space/ipv4-address-space.txt

Please update your filters as appropriate.

Only five unallocated unicast IPv4 /8s remain.

Regards,

Leo Vegoda
Number Resources Manager, IANA
ICANN

_______________________________________________
afnog mailing list
http://afnog.org/mailman/listinfo/afnog



-- 
Cheers,

McTim
"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A
route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
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From katitza at eff.org  Mon Jan 31 23:07:12 2011
From: katitza at eff.org (Katitza Rodriguez)
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 20:07:12 -0800
Subject: [governance] EFF Uncovers Widespread FBI Intelligence
 Violations
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=4doqK-r5uY-LZMJ3t1EhMPYSavU7HHW4LH1=z@mail.gmail.com>
References: <541ABB9C4E384A24A9425D0C7EF695C2@userPC>	<AANLkTink+L_kZpdbhQ_nT_WJ3q-=pFg1PFbaVJTLmKv3@mail.gmail.com>	<o3qDvXLCjcRNFARU@internetpolicyagency.com>	<4D45CB0B.7050307@eff.org> <AANLkTi=4doqK-r5uY-LZMJ3t1EhMPYSavU7HHW4LH1=z@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D4786F0.2090802@eff.org>

Hi Charity,

This work is based on what we have found as a result of our litigation 
under the in our Freedom of Information Act. The report "Patterns of 
Misconduct: FBI Intelligence Violations from 2001 - 2008" is available 
here. 
https://www.eff.org/pages/patterns-misconduct-fbi-intelligence-violations

On 1/31/11 7:37 PM, Charity Gamboa wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am assuming that this was based on a CNN news report 
> [http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/01/27/siu.fbi.internal.documents/index.html]. 
> I saw the news report on TV on my way out of the office last week 
> (actually stopped and watched it). What struck me the most was the 
> gravity of the offense with only a suspension. Those people swore to 
> uphold the law - "/fidelity, bravery and integrity/." FBI officials 
> defended those offenses by saying they're only humans and they make 
> mistakes. A mistake is putting the wrong number on the form and what 
> they did was a deliberate violation of the rules that they should 
> follow. If regular people like me follow the speed limit for instance, 
> people who uphold the law should do the same thing. I'd hate to pay 
> $180 bucks for a speeding ticket. I don't think there are exceptions 
> to that rule. Shocking...Uncle Sam takes a lot of taxes from me and 
> taxes pay my wages, too,  but I'd like to think that people in that 
> same situation should at least work on that thing they call 
> /integrity/...that is. Sure hope Congress does something.
>
> Btw Kati, the link for the final report does not seem to work. I would 
> be interested to read EFF's report but the link 
> [https://www.eff.org/files/EFF%20IOB%20Report_Final%20Version.pdf] 
> says "/page not found/."
>
> Thanks!
>
> Regards,
> Charity
>
> On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 2:33 PM, Katitza Rodriguez <katitza at eff.org 
> <mailto:katitza at eff.org>> wrote:
>
>
>     https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/01/eff-releases-report-detailing-fbi-intelligence
>
>     EFF has uncovered widespread violations stemming from FBI
>     intelligence investigations from 2001 - 2008. In a report
>     <https://www.eff.org/pages/patterns-misconduct-fbi-intelligence-violations>
>     released today, EFF documents alarming trends in the Bureau’s
>     intelligence investigation practices, suggesting that FBI
>     intelligence investigations have compromised the civil liberties
>     of American citizens far more frequently, and to a greater extent,
>     than was previously assumed.
>
>     Using documents obtained through EFF's Freedom of Information Act
>     (FOIA) litigation
>     <https://www.eff.org/foia/intelligence-agencies-misconduct>, the
>     report finds:
>
>     • /Evidence of delays of 2.5 years, on average, between the
>     occurrence of a violation and its eventual reporting to the
>     Intelligence Oversight Board /
>
>     • /Reports of serious misconduct by FBI agents including lying in
>     declarations to courts, using improper evidence to obtain grand
>     jury subpoenas, and accessing password-protected files without a
>     warrant/
>
>     • /Indications that the FBI may have committed upwards of 40,000
>     possible intelligence violations in the 9 years since 9/11/
>
>     EFF's report stems from analysis of nearly 2,500 pages of FBI
>     documents, consisting of reports of FBI intelligence violations
>     made to the Intelligence Oversight Board
>     <https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/President%27s_Intelligence_Advisory_Board#Intelligence_Oversight_Board>
>     — an independent, civilian intelligence-monitoring board that
>     reports to the President on the legality of foreign and domestic
>     intelligence operations. The documents constitute the most
>     complete picture of post-9/11 FBI intelligence abuses available to
>     the public. Our earlier analysis of the documents showed the FBI's
>     arbitrary disclosure practices
>     <https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/12/fbi-arbitrarily-covers-evidence-misconduct>.
>
>
>     EFF's report underscores the need for greater transparency and
>     oversight in the intelligence community. As part of our ongoing
>     effort <https://www.eff.org/issues/foia> to inform the public and
>     elected officials about abusive intelligence investigations, we
>     are distributing copies of the report to members of Congress.
>
>     A pdf copy of the report can be downloaded here
>     <https://www.eff.org/files/EFF%20IOB%20Report_Final%20Version.pdf>.
>
>
>
>     ____________________________________________________________
>     You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org <mailto:governance at lists.cpsr.org>
>     To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
>     For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>     To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
>     Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
Katitza Rodriguez
International Rights Director
Electronic Frontier Foundation
katitza at eff.org
katitza at datos-personales.org (personal email)

Please support EFF - Working to protect your digital rights and freedom of speech since 1990

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From jeremy at ciroap.org  Sun Jan  2 06:01:01 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 19:01:01 +0800
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
Message-ID: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org>

This is long, but important, so please read it.

Before the next poll or election is called, anyone who wishes to participate will have to have an account in the new database that I have created to record IGC membership.  All those who voted in the last election will also be entered into this database.

We are doing this because, until now, there has been no proper IGC membership list, other than the list of subscribers to the governance mailing list (which contains many non-member lurkers, duplicate subscriptions and some defunct accounts).

The advantages of a maintaining a centralised database is that we can use a single list of members (and potential members) for purposes including:

mailing list subscription
editing content on the IGC Web site
determining eligibility to vote for coordination elections and charter amendments

Also, we will finally be able to associate names and (optionally) organisations with email addresses.  Our inability to do this in the past has been a problem for the coordinators.

I will be entering existing members into this database shortly, but I am first giving everyone the opportunity to create their own database entry so that they can choose their own username.  If you don't choose your own username, you will end up with a username like "john.doe".  The username won't be used on the mailing list, but will be associated with any content you may create on our Web site, and possibly for other purposes in the future.  

To create your own entry in the IGC membership database please visit this new page of our Web site:

http://www.igcaucus.org/user/register

When registering, please use the same email address with which you are subscribed to the governance list.  This is important because it will enable me to flag you as an official IGC member (ie. one who voted in the last coordinator elections), if indeed you are one.  (If not, please register anyway - especially if you intend to vote at the next coordinator elections.)

Visiting the page above is also the way, from now on, to subscribe to or unsubscribe from the governance mailing list.  (Unfortunately due to software limitations, your password for the mailing list Web site won't be automatically set to the one you choose when creating your database entry - you'll need to set it again when logging in there, or use any password you may have had there before.)

Existing subscribers to the governance mailing list who have not voted in the list election will not automatically be added to the database.  So, if you did not vote but are nonetheless an active participant, you should register yourself using the link above.  If you don't, your mailing list subscription won't be touched, but you won't have access to participate in polls or to add content to our Web site.

Thanks, and please let me know if you have any questions.  You have one month from now to create your own database entry if you wish, before I will create entries for all the missing members.

PS. Since this email is long enough already, I'll be writing separately about some of the other "phase 2" improvements to our Web site.

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.

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From williams.deirdre at gmail.com  Sun Jan  2 08:12:05 2011
From: williams.deirdre at gmail.com (Deirdre Williams)
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 09:12:05 -0400
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=DG4g--hQ5BYPCTpz9xg=dAaOWK8ZByEQ8FcXi@mail.gmail.com>

First of all - thank you everyone for all the good wishes for the holidays.
I should like to add my "Happy New Year!" and a wish for the absence of
earthquakes, epidemics, hurricanes, floods, landslides and volcanic
eruptions globally in 2011.

Second - there are several things that are not clear to me about this
message from Jeremy and I would be grateful for clarification.

On 2 January 2011 07:01, Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org> wrote:

>
> Before the next poll or election is called, anyone who wishes to
> participate will have to have an account in the new database that I have
> created to record IGC membership.  All those who voted in the last election
> will also be entered into this database.
>

My understanding is that eligibility to vote is defined by a subscription of
at least 2 months to the IGC mailing list. If that changes, in the sense of
there being additional requirements, surely it needs to be in the charter?

>
> We are doing this because, until now, there has been no proper IGC
> membership list, other than the list of subscribers to the governance
> mailing list (which contains many non-member lurkers, duplicate
> subscriptions and some defunct accounts).
>

By the existing rules it is, I thought, not possible to be a "non-member
lurker" since the rules define membership by "subscription to the list"?

>
> The advantages of a maintaining a centralised database is that we can use a
> single list of members (and potential members) for purposes including:
>
>
>    - mailing list subscription
>    - editing content on the IGC Web site
>    - determining eligibility to vote for coordination elections and
>    charter amendments
>
>
> Also, we will finally be able to associate names and (optionally)
> organisations with email addresses.  Our inability to do this in the past
> has been a problem for the coordinators.
>
> I will be entering existing members into this database shortly, but I am
> first giving everyone the opportunity to create their own database entry so
> that they can choose their own username.  If you don't choose your own
> username, you will end up with a username like "john.doe".  The username
> won't be used on the mailing list, but will be associated with any content
> you may create on our Web site, and possibly for other purposes in the
> future.
>
> To create your own entry in the IGC membership database please visit this
> new page of our Web site:
>
> http://www.igcaucus.org/user/register
>
> When registering, please use the same email address with which you are
> subscribed to the governance list.  This is important because it will enable
> me to flag you as an official IGC member (ie. one who voted in the last
> coordinator elections),
>

"Official IGC members" are those who subscribe to the list, NOT those "who
voted in the last coordinator elections". The definition in Jeremy's message
seems to me to be a fundamental change in the intention of the charter.

if indeed you are one.  (If not, please register anyway - especially if you
> intend to vote at the next coordinator elections.)
>
> Visiting the page above is also the way, from now on, to subscribe to or
> unsubscribe from the governance mailing list.  (Unfortunately due to
> software limitations, your password for the mailing list Web site won't be
> automatically set to the one you choose when creating your database entry -
> you'll need to set it again when logging in there, or use any password you
> may have had there before.)
>
> Existing subscribers to the governance mailing list who have not voted in
> the list election will not automatically be added to the database.  So, if
> you did not vote but are nonetheless an active participant, you should
> register yourself using the link above.  If you don't, your mailing list
> subscription won't be touched, but you won't have access to participate in
> polls or to add content to our Web site.
>
> Thanks, and please let me know if you have any questions.  You have one
> month from now to create your own database entry if you wish, before I will
> create entries for all the missing members.
>
> PS. Since this email is long enough already, I'll be writing separately
> about some of the other "phase 2" improvements to our Web site.
>

Research has demonstrated that mailing lists are like icebergs, with the
greatest proportion invisible "below water level". There have also been
studies that demonstrate that this "invisible majority" plays an important
part in the production of results, particularly by dissemination of
information from the discussions carried on by the minority.

The issue of reviewing the charter keeps recurring. Perhaps we have come to
the point where that review MUST be carried out. We should not press for
inclusion and transparency in others while working towards something which
can appear to be exclusion and opacity in our own affairs.

Deirdre

>    --
>
> *Jeremy Malcolm
> Project Coordinator*
> Consumers International
> Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
> Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
> Malaysia
> Tel: +60 3 7726 1599
> *
> Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers
> CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
> Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer
> groups from around the world
> for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to
> consumers. Register now!
> http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
> Twitter #CICongress
> *
>
> Read our email confidentiality notice<http://www.consumersinternational.org/email-confidentiality>.
> Don't print this email unless necessary.
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
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>
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>



-- 
“The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
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From roland at internetpolicyagency.com  Sun Jan  2 09:40:19 2011
From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry)
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 14:40:19 +0000
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com>

In message <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB at ciroap.org>, at 
19:01:01 on Sun, 2 Jan 2011, Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org> writes
>When registering, please use the same email address with which you are 
>subscribed to the governance list.  This is important because it will 
>enable me to flag you as an official IGC member (ie. one who voted in 
>the last coordinator elections), if indeed you are one.  (If not, 
>please register anyway - especially if you intend to vote at the next 
>coordinator elections.)

Having registered and validated (an extra step not mentioned above) it 
then says the account has to be "authorised". Which is perhaps why...

>Visiting the page above is also the way, from now on, to subscribe to 
>or unsubscribe from the governance mailing list.  (Unfortunately due to 
>software limitations, your password for the mailing list Web site won't 
>be automatically set to the one you choose when creating your database 
>entry - you'll need to set it again when logging in there, or use any 
>password you may have had there before.)

... when it goes on to ask for a username and password, it doesn't 
recognise either my username or email address (and, of course, I have no 
password, or if I did it was forgotten years ago).

[This report sent to the list, in case others are puzzling over the same 
issue].
-- 
Roland Perry
____________________________________________________________
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From avri at acm.org  Sun Jan  2 10:22:06 2011
From: avri at acm.org (Avri Doria)
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 10:22:06 -0500
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org> <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com>
Message-ID: <B3DDD075-43E5-4C5A-B93A-52526C260ED0@acm.org>

hi,

same experience.

my assumption is that Jeremy has set it up so that an admin, in this case Jeremy, has to approve us.

btw, I do not understand the statement in Jeremy's original note that this is the only way to subscribe to the email list.  has the list moved?  if not what stops direct subscription? and do we as a group want people to have to run a gauntlet to subscribe to the list?  

i wonder to what degree is gate-keeping consistent with the letter and spirit of the IGC charter.

a.

On 2 Jan 2011, at 09:40, Roland Perry wrote:

> In message <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB at ciroap.org>, at 19:01:01 on Sun, 2 Jan 2011, Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org> writes
>> When registering, please use the same email address with which you are subscribed to the governance list.  This is important because it will enable me to flag you as an official IGC member (ie. one who voted in the last coordinator elections), if indeed you are one.  (If not, please register anyway - especially if you intend to vote at the next coordinator elections.)
> 
> Having registered and validated (an extra step not mentioned above) it then says the account has to be "authorised". Which is perhaps why...
> 
>> Visiting the page above is also the way, from now on, to subscribe to or unsubscribe from the governance mailing list.  (Unfortunately due to software limitations, your password for the mailing list Web site won't be automatically set to the one you choose when creating your database entry - you'll need to set it again when logging in there, or use any password you may have had there before.)
> 
> ... when it goes on to ask for a username and password, it doesn't recognise either my username or email address (and, of course, I have no password, or if I did it was forgotten years ago).
> 
> [This report sent to the list, in case others are puzzling over the same issue].
> -- 
> Roland Perry
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>    governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>    governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> 
> For all list information and functions, see:
>    http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

____________________________________________________________
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From David_Allen_AB63 at post.harvard.edu  Sun Jan  2 10:24:30 2011
From: David_Allen_AB63 at post.harvard.edu (David Allen)
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 10:24:30 -0500
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org> <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com>
Message-ID: <A39BB5FE-0340-4A76-B118-8E0552998C4B@post.harvard.edu>

On Jan 2, 2011, at 9:40 AM, Roland Perry wrote:

> In message <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB at ciroap.org>, at  
> 19:01:01 on Sun, 2 Jan 2011, Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org> writes
>> When registering, please use the same email address with which you  
>> are subscribed to the governance list.  This is important because  
>> it will enable me to flag you as an official IGC member (ie. one  
>> who voted in the last coordinator elections), if indeed you are  
>> one.  (If not, please register anyway - especially if you intend to  
>> vote at the next coordinator elections.)
>
> Having registered and validated (an extra step not mentioned above)  
> it then says the account has to be "authorised". Which is perhaps  
> why...
>
>> Visiting the page above is also the way, from now on, to subscribe  
>> to or unsubscribe from the governance mailing list.  (Unfortunately  
>> due to software limitations, your password for the mailing list Web  
>> site won't be automatically set to the one you choose when creating  
>> your database entry - you'll need to set it again when logging in  
>> there, or use any password you may have had there before.)
>
> ... when it goes on to ask for a username and password, it doesn't  
> recognise either my username or email address (and, of course, I  
> have no password, or if I did it was forgotten years ago).
>
> [This report sent to the list, in case others are puzzling over the  
> same issue].

Roland,

Surely good questions.  I believe we are seeing a standard Drupal  
mechanism for a protected site.  If this is correct, a password will  
come along subsequently.  Awaiting, of course, Jeremy's direction in  
the matter.

David

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From dogwallah at gmail.com  Sun Jan  2 11:17:32 2011
From: dogwallah at gmail.com (McTim)
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 19:17:32 +0300
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <B3DDD075-43E5-4C5A-B93A-52526C260ED0@acm.org>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org>
 <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com> <B3DDD075-43E5-4C5A-B93A-52526C260ED0@acm.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikCtO+4bKyURFK8u7YmtdTQU97zR0q6v+fEzsVP@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 6:22 PM, Avri Doria <avri at acm.org> wrote:
> hi,
>
> same experience.
>
> my assumption is that Jeremy has set it up so that an admin, in this case Jeremy, has to approve us.
>
> btw, I do not understand the statement in Jeremy's original note that this is the only way to subscribe to the email list.  has the list moved?  if not what stops direct subscription? and do we as a group want people to have to run a gauntlet to subscribe to the list?

no

>
> i wonder to what degree is gate-keeping consistent with the letter and spirit of the IGC charter.

I don't feel it is consistent with either.


-- 
Cheers,

McTim
"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A
route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel
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From vanda at uol.com.br  Sun Jan  2 11:30:47 2011
From: vanda at uol.com.br (Vanda UOL)
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 10:30:47 -0600
Subject: RES: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <B3DDD075-43E5-4C5A-B93A-52526C260ED0@acm.org>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org> <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com> <B3DDD075-43E5-4C5A-B93A-52526C260ED0@acm.org>
Message-ID: <005a01cbaa9a$6cb2e520$4618af60$@uol.com.br>

Same points Avri, I see no point in have someone deciding who will ente ror
not.

Vanda Scartezini
Polo Consultores Associados
IT Trend
Alameda Santos 1470 – 1407,8
01418-903 São Paulo,SP, Brasil
Tel + 5511 3266.6253
Mob + 55118181.1464


-----Mensagem original-----
De: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org
[mailto:governance-request at lists.cpsr.org] Em nome de Avri Doria
Enviada em: domingo, 2 de janeiro de 2011 09:22
Para: IGC
Assunto: Re: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username

hi,

same experience.

my assumption is that Jeremy has set it up so that an admin, in this case
Jeremy, has to approve us.

btw, I do not understand the statement in Jeremy's original note that this
is the only way to subscribe to the email list.  has the list moved?  if not
what stops direct subscription? and do we as a group want people to have to
run a gauntlet to subscribe to the list?  

i wonder to what degree is gate-keeping consistent with the letter and
spirit of the IGC charter.

a.

On 2 Jan 2011, at 09:40, Roland Perry wrote:

> In message <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB at ciroap.org>, at 19:01:01
on Sun, 2 Jan 2011, Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org> writes
>> When registering, please use the same email address with which you are
subscribed to the governance list.  This is important because it will enable
me to flag you as an official IGC member (ie. one who voted in the last
coordinator elections), if indeed you are one.  (If not, please register
anyway - especially if you intend to vote at the next coordinator
elections.)
> 
> Having registered and validated (an extra step not mentioned above) it
then says the account has to be "authorised". Which is perhaps why...
> 
>> Visiting the page above is also the way, from now on, to subscribe to or
unsubscribe from the governance mailing list.  (Unfortunately due to
software limitations, your password for the mailing list Web site won't be
automatically set to the one you choose when creating your database entry -
you'll need to set it again when logging in there, or use any password you
may have had there before.)
> 
> ... when it goes on to ask for a username and password, it doesn't
recognise either my username or email address (and, of course, I have no
password, or if I did it was forgotten years ago).
> 
> [This report sent to the list, in case others are puzzling over the same
issue].
> -- 
> Roland Perry
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>    governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>    governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> 
> For all list information and functions, see:
>    http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

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From gurstein at gmail.com  Mon Jan  3 06:13:05 2011
From: gurstein at gmail.com (Michael Gurstein)
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 03:13:05 -0800
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [fcf_discussion] Websites Black-out as Drastic
 Internet Censorship is Introduced in Hungary
Message-ID: <07C6D4FC1C1C4224AB2EBB96C04D4BDB@userPC>

 
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: stef <stefan.marsiske at gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 9:11 PM
Subject: [fcf_discussion] Websites Black-out as Drastic Internet Censorship
is Introduced in Hungary
To: face <face at ml.foebud.org>, fcforum_discussion
<fcforum_discussion at list.fcforum.net>, iindep info exchange hub
<hub at iindep.org>


blackout4hungary - For immediate release

Permanent Link:
http://blackout4hungary.net/en/Websites_Black-out_as_Drastic_Internet_Censor
ship_is_Introduced_in_Hungary.html


** Websites Black-out as Drastic Internet Censorship is Introduced in
Hungary
Will the upcoming Hungarian Presidency of the EU attack the Net?

Budapest, January 2nd 2001 -- A new media law in Hungary creates a powerful
censorship authority without oversight and excessive powers under control of
the governing party, which endangers the freedom of speech, the Internet and
journalism as a whole.  Citizens are called to black-out the Internet from
the
5th January - when Hungary is taking over the EU presidency on the 6th
January
2011.

The new Hungarian media law entered into force on January the 1st 2011. This
law enables the ruling party to gain control of the Internet through the
creation of a powerful censorship authority. While destroying journalistic
source protection the text also fails to distinguish between different types
of
media, mixing online platforms and traditional broadcasters and making them
obey the same standards. The Hungarian ruling party deliberately avoided
public
consultation on the new media law. It is plain to see their will to control
and
censor the Internet while bypassing democracy and suppressing dissent,
opposition and transparency.

Concerned citizens' opinion is confirmed by the joint analysis
  http://www.ekint.org/ekint/ekint_angol.news.page?nodeid=395
of the Hungarian Civil Liberties Union, the Eötvös Károly Institute and the
Hungarian Helsinki Committee, who observe that

   "...the Bill will enact a compulsory registration system for all content
providers. The maximum amount of fines for national television broadcaster
is
set to 200 million HUF, and to 25 million HUF[1] for national printed and
online
newspapers (including blogs with advertisements). The media authority will
have
the power to suspend or even shut down Internet websites that does not meet
the
requirements. The Bill will establish legal responsibility beyond the press
for
intermediary providers. This shift would be in sharp contrast with EU
regulation. According to the original plans, decisions of the authority may
be
subject to judicial review, but submitting a motion to the court would not
have
any suspending effect as far as the execution of sentences is concerned."

Hungary will take over the EU presidency on the 6th of January, while
various
Member States are attempting to impose Internet censorship, amongst
widespread
local and international protest about the new media legislation[2]. As the
"Child
Protection" EU directive will attempt to sneakily impose censorship of the
Net,
it is now very likely that the Hungarian Presidency will participate in the
global EU effort of censoring the Internet.

"All citizens, in Hungary and beyond, should react to this blatant attack
against the Internet! When the Hungarian government opens the box of Net
censorship, after the French and the Italian ones, it's all of EU should be
afraid. We must warn EU citizens and reject any scheme of Internet
censorship
altogether!" conludes Vince Kovács, spokesperson of blackout4hungary.

Citizens of Blackout4Hungary call on everyone on the Hungarian Internet and
beyond, to oppose Internet censorship by displaying an image, or turning
their
whole website black (examples and images are available on
http://blackout4hungary.net) from January the 5th.

** References **
[1] Around 10 000 EUR
[2] EU presses Hungary on media law:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6408bc8a-0f65-11e0-b336-00144feabdc0.html#axzz194B
xml94

** About blackout4hungary **

blackout4hungary is a group of concerned internet citizens with strong ties
to
Hungary and Freedom.

** Contact, Press **
@blackout4hu
Vince Kovacs <info at blackout4hungary.net>

thanks for everyones support!
s

ps: for a detailed analysis see a post by Jan Albrecht:
http://janalbrecht.eu/2011/01/02/whats-the-problem-with-the-hungarian-media-
law/

--
gpg: https://www.ctrlc.hu/~stef/stef.gpg
<https://www.ctrlc.hu/%7Estef/stef.gpg> 
gpg fp: F617 AC77 6E86 5830 08B8  BB96 E7A4 C6CF A84A 7140

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-----
+info http://list.fcforum.net/wws/info/fcforum_discussion
---- 
 
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From jeremy at ciroap.org  Mon Jan  3 07:15:57 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 20:15:57 +0800
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org> <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com>
Message-ID: <DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org>

On 02/01/2011, at 10:40 PM, Roland Perry wrote:

> Having registered and validated (an extra step not mentioned above) it then says the account has to be "authorised". Which is perhaps why...
> 
>> Visiting the page above is also the way, from now on, to subscribe to or unsubscribe from the governance mailing list.  (Unfortunately due to software limitations, your password for the mailing list Web site won't be automatically set to the one you choose when creating your database entry - you'll need to set it again when logging in there, or use any password you may have had there before.)
> 
> ... when it goes on to ask for a username and password, it doesn't recognise either my username or email address (and, of course, I have no password, or if I did it was forgotten years ago).

Yes, that's why.  You'll need to wait for confirmation of your registration before you can log in.  This may take 24 hours or so, since it has to be done manually.

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.

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From george_todoroff at imap.cc  Mon Jan  3 10:30:41 2011
From: george_todoroff at imap.cc (George Todoroff)
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2011 07:30:41 -0800
Subject: RES: [governance] =?UTF-8?Q?Is_really_Bulgarian_Cyrillic_=2E?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?=D0=B1=D0=B3_=28=2Ebg=29_similar_to_other_Latin_ccTLDs=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <020b01cb9663$b9e40bd0$2dac2370$@uol.com.br>
References: <1291131665.20152.1407897083@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <AANLkTikgPie+wr7VBeA-d=4ni1yC=rwYFK3sP9ha9D4G@mail.gmail.com>
 <75822E125BCB994F8446858C4B19F0D70AC108DDE4@SUEX07-MBX-04.ad.syr.edu>
 <AANLkTimoePpYEP06FMrSV+pOVTmJ=jcmYrnQREsa2KMt@mail.gmail.com>
 <500941AB-8ACA-4A6E-A681-E0B3CB6E9EB0@acm.org>
 <AANLkTinu6QCzgA1i1iijtvObM8b3rLFar=hd_msE5YQ_@mail.gmail.com>
 <1701E13A4DA6F3EE1CC135C7@as-paul-l-1813.local>
 <AANLkTimexxG=RxTF9C3dp=qbC6O_+s9BZ-A+JV1ygZbB@mail.gmail.com>
 <05B243F724B2284986522B6ACD0504D7D34FFBFAFF@EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org>
 <AANLkTi=fP5aWj7VxVZ86E5r9Q5cfYtct2mBJrNdZ4pPK@mail.gmail.com>
 <05B243F724B2284986522B6ACD0504D7D34FFBFB84@EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org>
 <0ea201cb93b1$1c245a30$546d0e90$@asia> <4CFD2CCF.1040109@digsys.bg>
 <AANLkTimmR8TmeTYwtPiDGkw0XXLSg6WoeSikezmKn1FY@mail.gmail.com>
 <020b01cb9663$b9e40bd0$2dac2370$@uol.com.br>
Message-ID: <1294068641.1643.1413261317@webmail.messagingengine.com>


-- 
http://www.fastmail.fm - A no graphics, no pop-ups email service

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From george_todoroff at imap.cc  Mon Jan  3 10:45:59 2011
From: george_todoroff at imap.cc (George Todoroff)
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2011 07:45:59 -0800
Subject: RES: [governance] =?UTF-8?Q?Is_really_Bulgarian_Cyrillic_=2E?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?=D0=B1=D0=B3_=28=2Ebg=29_similar_to_other_Latin_ccTLDs=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <1294068641.1643.1413261317@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1291131665.20152.1407897083@webmail.messagingengine.com><AANLkTikgPie+wr7VBeA-d=4ni1yC=rwYFK3sP9ha9D4G@mail.gmail.com><75822E125BCB994F8446858C4B19F0D70AC108DDE4@SUEX07-MBX-04.ad.syr.edu><AANLkTimoePpYEP06FMrSV+pOVTmJ=jcmYrnQREsa2KMt@mail.gmail.com><500941AB-8ACA-4A6E-A681-E0B3CB6E9EB0@acm.org><AANLkTinu6QCzgA1i1iijtvObM8b3rLFar=hd_msE5YQ_@mail.gmail.com><1701E13A4DA6F3EE1CC135C7@as-paul-l-1813.local><AANLkTimexxG=RxTF9C3dp=qbC6O_+s9BZ-A+JV1ygZbB@mail.gmail.com><05B243F724B2284986522B6ACD0504D7D34FFBFAFF@EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org><AANLkTi=fP5aWj7VxVZ86E5r9Q5cfYtct2mBJrNdZ4pPK@mail.gmail.com><05B243F724B2284986522B6ACD0504D7D34FFBFB84@EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org><0ea201cb93b1$1c245a30$546d0e90$@asia>
 <4CFD2CCF.1040109@digsys.bg><AANLkTimmR8TmeTYwtPiDGkw0XXLSg6WoeSikezmKn1FY@mail.gmail.com><020b01cb9663$b9e40bd0$2dac2370$@uol.com.br>
 <1294068641.1643.1413261317@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <1294069559.5329.1413265115@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Something has gone terribly wrong with my mailer, so I`m deeply sorry
for double posting.

I wanted to revive the thread, by sharing my comments after reading this
news from today:
 http://domainincite.com/icann-rejects-bulgarian-idn-info-request/

I read the ICANN response at
http://domainincite.com/docs/DIDP-Response-Bazlyankov-20101201-1.pdf and
I believe that with this reply, ICANN
ran over its policy of becoming more transparent. They have refused to
share any details of how the decision to reject the Bulgarian IDN domain
was taken, by actually citing legal reasons for non-transparency.


-- 
  George Todoroff
  george_todoroff at imap.cc

-- 
http://www.fastmail.fm - Send your email first class

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From jefsey at jefsey.com  Mon Jan  3 12:25:13 2011
From: jefsey at jefsey.com (JFC Morfin)
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2011 18:25:13 +0100
Subject: RES:  [governance] Is really Bulgarian Cyrillic . бг  (.bg) similar to other Latin ccTLDs?
In-Reply-To: <1294069559.5329.1413265115@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1291131665.20152.1407897083@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <AANLkTikgPie+wr7VBeA-d=4ni1yC=rwYFK3sP9ha9D4G@mail.gmail.com>
 <75822E125BCB994F8446858C4B19F0D70AC108DDE4@SUEX07-MBX-04.ad.syr.edu>
 <AANLkTimoePpYEP06FMrSV+pOVTmJ=jcmYrnQREsa2KMt@mail.gmail.com>
 <500941AB-8ACA-4A6E-A681-E0B3CB6E9EB0@acm.org>
 <AANLkTinu6QCzgA1i1iijtvObM8b3rLFar=hd_msE5YQ_@mail.gmail.com>
 <1701E13A4DA6F3EE1CC135C7@as-paul-l-1813.local>
 <AANLkTimexxG=RxTF9C3dp=qbC6O_+s9BZ-A+JV1ygZbB@mail.gmail.com>
 <05B243F724B2284986522B6ACD0504D7D34FFBFAFF@EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org>
 <AANLkTi=fP5aWj7VxVZ86E5r9Q5cfYtct2mBJrNdZ4pPK@mail.gmail.com>
 <05B243F724B2284986522B6ACD0504D7D34FFBFB84@EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org>
 <0ea201cb93b1$1c245a30$546d0e90$@asia>
 <4CFD2CCF.1040109@digsys.bg>
 <AANLkTimmR8TmeTYwtPiDGkw0XXLSg6WoeSikezmKn1FY@mail.gmail.com>
 <020b01cb9663$b9e40bd0$2dac2370$@uol.com.br>
 <1294068641.1643.1413261317@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <1294069559.5329.1413265115@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20110103175903.04e71968@jefsey.com>

At 16:45 03/01/2011, George Todoroff wrote:
>Something has gone terribly wrong with my mailer, so I`m deeply sorry
>for double posting.
>
>I wanted to revive the thread, by sharing my comments after reading this
>news from today:
>  http://domainincite.com/icann-rejects-bulgarian-idn-info-request/
>
>I read the ICANN response at
>http://domainincite.com/docs/DIDP-Response-Bazlyankov-20101201-1.pdf and
>I believe that with this reply, ICANN
>ran over its policy of becoming more transparent. They have refused to
>share any details of how the decision to reject the Bulgarian IDN domain
>was taken, by actually citing legal reasons for non-transparency.

All this ICANN crap is only BS, just to stay very polite.

As I explained to you, ICANN carry no other weight than the one its 
believers give to them. The whole Fast Track and gTLD processes are 
based upon an undue forced respect of the International US policy and 
the lapse of memory about RFC 1034/1035. I suggest you just forget 
about them, work on the basis of a "6g" TLD, and gives time to the 
IUse (Intelligent Use) emerging community to sort its acts together 
(or may be join). The only International Network Character Set (INCS) 
of reference can be a visual character set. It must be based upon a 
transposition of RFC 5892 to ISO 10646 (to stay independent from 
commercial interests associated in the US industry Unicode 
consortium, whatever their competences and lacks). Then on a graphic 
community sorting, together with all the organizations neededing a 
visually secure graphic set of characters forms independent from the 
script (police, banks, customs, immigrations, etc.) Such an INCS will 
be used to register names in class 0 and defeat visual confusion.

jfc
http://iuse.eu
http://incsa.org/ 

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From jeremy at ciroap.org  Mon Jan  3 20:34:57 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 09:34:57 +0800
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org> <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com> <DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org>

On 03/01/2011, at 8:15 PM, Jeremy Malcolm wrote:

> On 02/01/2011, at 10:40 PM, Roland Perry wrote:
> 
>> Having registered and validated (an extra step not mentioned above) it then says the account has to be "authorised". Which is perhaps why...

I've just noticed I'm missing some emails (my work email address has been down), in which people are expressing a couple of concerns that I need to address.

First, there is no change to the criteria for IGC membership.  The requirement for registration applications to be approved by an administrator is inherent in the software that we are using.  There is no discretion on my part to refuse applications (perhaps except for obvious spam registrations, of which there have been none so far).  If it's a big concern, probably we could amend the software to remove the requirement for administrator's approval.

Second, the list has not moved.  But the list does not have all the facilities we need for a membership database, and neither does our Web site.  So what I've done is to create an LDAP database on a third server (igf-online.net) which the other two servers (lists.cprs.org and www.igcaucus.org) use to access the list of IGC members.  Ideally, we would have our own dedicated server which would host all these facilities... but we have no funding, so we are reliant on the generosity of sponsors.

I'm happy to address any other concerns as they come up.

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.

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From jeremy at ciroap.org  Mon Jan  3 22:31:23 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 11:31:23 +0800
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=DG4g--hQ5BYPCTpz9xg=dAaOWK8ZByEQ8FcXi@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org> <AANLkTi=DG4g--hQ5BYPCTpz9xg=dAaOWK8ZByEQ8FcXi@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CF3DC711-9CCC-4A55-A701-DB5656DA1901@ciroap.org>

On 02/01/2011, at 9:12 PM, Deirdre Williams wrote:

> "Official IGC members" are those who subscribe to the list, NOT those "who voted in the last coordinator elections". The definition in Jeremy's message seems to me to be a fundamental change in the intention of the charter.

There are so many different levels of membership in the charter that it is indeed confusing:

* Those who self-identified as members and voted in the last coordinator elections, who are the only members entitled to vote on charter amendments.  These are whom I was referring to above, though maybe "full" would have been a better choice of words than "official".

* Those who self-identified as members prior to the last coordinator election, who are (perhaps?) also still members, but can't vote on charter amendments.  The charter is ambiguous about whether you have to renew your self-identification every year.  In favour of this view, a member may have moved into government service  since their previous self-identification.  Against, even if you do work for government, you may feel that you can still self-identify as an IGC member in your personal capacity.

* Those who participate in the mailing list, but have never self-identified as members (whom I called "lurkers"). So, I disagree with your point that there is no such thing as a non-member lurker.

But, I agree that it would be better to completely review the charter, if only we had a willing group of members to undertake this task.

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.

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From aizu at anr.org  Mon Jan  3 22:50:05 2011
From: aizu at anr.org (Izumi AIZU)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 12:50:05 +0900
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <CF3DC711-9CCC-4A55-A701-DB5656DA1901@ciroap.org>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org>
 <AANLkTi=DG4g--hQ5BYPCTpz9xg=dAaOWK8ZByEQ8FcXi@mail.gmail.com> <CF3DC711-9CCC-4A55-A701-DB5656DA1901@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=E6Kff41x9MmgB9GkHWVpwGWqH2xwqcq7dJUCi@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list,

A Happy New year to all! This will be a crucial year and I hope
we can manage that to advance our cause around IGF and WSIS.

As Jeremy explained, we had no intention to change the Charter or its
interpretation when trying to change the database management.

And yes, it is somewhat confusing to have different levels of membership
in our Carter. They are with good reasons, too, however, I think.
I am not against the review of the Charter, but I agree with Jeremy in that
we need a willing group of members and also a good deal of discussion
on the list.

izumi

2011/1/4 Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org>:
> On 02/01/2011, at 9:12 PM, Deirdre Williams wrote:
>
> "Official IGC members" are those who subscribe to the list, NOT those "who
> voted in the last coordinator elections". The definition in Jeremy's message
> seems to me to be a fundamental change in the intention of the charter.
>
> There are so many different levels of membership in the charter that it is
> indeed confusing:
> * Those who self-identified as members and voted in the last coordinator
> elections, who are the only members entitled to vote on charter amendments.
>  These are whom I was referring to above, though maybe "full" would have
> been a better choice of words than "official".
> * Those who self-identified as members prior to the last coordinator
> election, who are (perhaps?) also still members, but can't vote on charter
> amendments.  The charter is ambiguous about whether you have to renew your
> self-identification every year.  In favour of this view, a member may have
> moved into government service  since their previous self-identification.
>  Against, even if you do work for government, you may feel that you can
> still self-identify as an IGC member in your personal capacity.
> * Those who participate in the mailing list, but have never self-identified
> as members (whom I called "lurkers"). So, I disagree with your point that
> there is no such thing as a non-member lurker.
> But, I agree that it would be better to completely review the charter, if
> only we had a willing group of members to undertake this task.
> --
>
____________________________________________________________
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From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com  Mon Jan  3 22:52:28 2011
From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 15:52:28 +1200
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <CF3DC711-9CCC-4A55-A701-DB5656DA1901@ciroap.org>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org>
	<AANLkTi=DG4g--hQ5BYPCTpz9xg=dAaOWK8ZByEQ8FcXi@mail.gmail.com>
	<CF3DC711-9CCC-4A55-A701-DB5656DA1901@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimkoByyXNarBbphZreymdPCQc_+0p1=YXw6Z+QE@mail.gmail.com>

Am I a lurker even though I subscribed to the list, please advise?

On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 4:31 PM, Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org> wrote:

>   On 02/01/2011, at 9:12 PM, Deirdre Williams wrote:
>
>   "Official IGC members" are those who subscribe to the list, NOT those
> "who voted in the last coordinator elections". The definition in Jeremy's
> message seems to me to be a fundamental change in the intention of the
> charter.
>
>
> There are so many different levels of membership in the charter that it is
> indeed confusing:
>
> * Those who self-identified as members and voted in the last coordinator
> elections, who are the only members entitled to vote on charter amendments.
>  These are whom I was referring to above, though maybe "full" would have
> been a better choice of words than "official".
>
>  * Those who self-identified as members prior to the last coordinator
> election, who are (perhaps?) also still members, but can't vote on charter
> amendments.  The charter is ambiguous about whether you have to renew your
> self-identification every year.  In favour of this view, a member may have
> moved into government service  since their previous self-identification.
>  Against, even if you do work for government, you may feel that you can
> still self-identify as an IGC member in your personal capacity.
>
>     * Those who participate in the mailing list, but have never
> self-identified as members (whom I called "lurkers"). So, I disagree with
> your point that there is no such thing as a non-member lurker.
>
> But, I agree that it would be better to completely review the charter, if
> only we had a willing group of members to undertake this task.
>
>      --
>
> *Jeremy Malcolm
> Project Coordinator*
> Consumers International
> Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
> Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
> Malaysia
> Tel: +60 3 7726 1599
> *
>      Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers
> CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
> Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer
> groups from around the world
> for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to
> consumers. Register now!
> http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
> Twitter #CICongress
> *
>
> Read our email confidentiality notice<http://www.consumersinternational.org/email-confidentiality>.
> Don't print this email unless necessary.
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>



-- 
Salanieta Tudrau Tamanikaiwaimaro
P.O.Box 17862
Suva
Fiji Islands

Cell: +679 9982851
Alternate Email: s.tamanikaiwaimaro at tfl.com.fj

"Wisdom is far better than riches."
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From dg_cameron at bigpond.com  Mon Jan  3 23:13:12 2011
From: dg_cameron at bigpond.com (Don Cameron)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 14:13:12 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own
 username
Message-ID: <14978931.6857.1294114392302.JavaMail.prodapps@nskntweba05-app>

Hello from a ‘non-member lurker’ (given I have not previously posted to this list even though I thank all contributors for the tremendous value offered in recent discussions). Please accept my apologies for this omission and be assured of my support for the IGC and objectives of good governance. I do promote the work of the IGC within my domains of influence and remain hopeful the term lurker was not meant to be derogatory.

While I am not sure why it is required, or under whose authority - I attempted to subscribe to the requested database however was unable to locate a database privacy policy. Could someone please provide a link? (better would be a URL to the policy on the subscription page) – Hopefully reluctance to enter personal details into an online database without such a policy or protections in place needs no explanation.  

Don


------------------------------------------
From: Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org>
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org;
CC: roland at internetpolicyagency.com;
Subject: Re: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
On 03/01/2011, at 8:15 PM, Jeremy Malcolm wrote:
> On 02/01/2011, at 10:40 PM, Roland Perry wrote:
>
>> Having registered and validated (an extra step not mentioned above) it then says the account has to be "authorised". Which is perhaps why...
I've just noticed I'm missing some emails (my work email address has been down), in which people are expressing a couple of concerns that I need to address.
First, there is no change to the criteria for IGC membership. The requirement for registration applications to be approved by an administrator is inherent in the software that we are using. There is no discretion on my part to refuse applications (perhaps except for obvious spam registrations, of which there have been none so far). If it's a big concern, probably we could amend the software to remove the requirement for administrator's approval.
Second, the list has not moved. But the list does not have all the facilities we need for a membership database, and neither does our Web site. So what I've done is to create an LDAP database on a third server (igf-online.net) which the other two servers (lists.cprs.org and www.igcaucus.org) use to access the list of IGC members. Ideally, we would have our own dedicated server which would host all these facilities... but we have no funding, so we are reliant on the generosity of sponsors.
I'm happy to address any other concerns as they come up.
--
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599
Empowering Tomorrow?s Consumers
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
Twitter #CICongress
Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.
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From lmcknigh at syr.edu  Mon Jan  3 23:15:49 2011
From: lmcknigh at syr.edu (Lee W McKnight)
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 23:15:49 -0500
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <CF3DC711-9CCC-4A55-A701-DB5656DA1901@ciroap.org>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org>
 <AANLkTi=DG4g--hQ5BYPCTpz9xg=dAaOWK8ZByEQ8FcXi@mail.gmail.com>,<CF3DC711-9CCC-4A55-A701-DB5656DA1901@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <93F4C2F3D19A03439EAC16D47C591DDE0330007021@suex07-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu>

Jeremy,

I'm now confused by your categories. 

List subscribers who self-identify as members of civil society are eligible to vote if they've been on the list a  couple months; list members who joined more recently have to wait for the next go-round; list members who do not self-identify as cs are ineligible.  Right?  We need not call them 'lurkers,' if such folks want to speak up we can listen right.  

Your second category of people whose status may have changed over time is more a problem, possibly, for a nomcom considering whether a particular possible volunteer is a suitable rep of cs in this or that volunteer capacity.    

If there was a sudden influx of folks from a particular sector then we might worry about ballot-stuffing....which we have in the past; but somehow we muddle along anyway. So present safeguards seem to work well enough there.
At least that's my understanding.  But if you feel we need to make things more complicated than that....you better join that charter amendment group you're suggesting before doing so : )

Otherwise, just focusing on cleaning up duplicate and defunct email addresses is the main thing right; building out a more comprehensive database on list members is...maybe... a good thing but I'm note sure it is a top priority given plenty of other things to do.  My 2 cents, and I am definitely not volunteering to join you on your charter amendment committee.

Lee
________________________________________
From: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org [governance-request at lists.cpsr.org] On Behalf Of Jeremy Malcolm [jeremy at ciroap.org]
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 10:31 PM
To: Deirdre Williams
Cc: governance at lists.cpsr.org
Subject: Re: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username

On 02/01/2011, at 9:12 PM, Deirdre Williams wrote:

"Official IGC members" are those who subscribe to the list, NOT those "who voted in the last coordinator elections". The definition in Jeremy's message seems to me to be a fundamental change in the intention of the charter.

There are so many different levels of membership in the charter that it is indeed confusing:

* Those who self-identified as members and voted in the last coordinator elections, who are the only members entitled to vote on charter amendments.  These are whom I was referring to above, though maybe "full" would have been a better choice of words than "official".

* Those who self-identified as members prior to the last coordinator election, who are (perhaps?) also still members, but can't vote on charter amendments.  The charter is ambiguous about whether you have to renew your self-identification every year.  In favour of this view, a member may have moved into government service  since their previous self-identification.  Against, even if you do work for government, you may feel that you can still self-identify as an IGC member in your personal capacity.

* Those who participate in the mailing list, but have never self-identified as members (whom I called "lurkers"). So, I disagree with your point that there is no such thing as a non-member lurker.

But, I agree that it would be better to completely review the charter, if only we had a willing group of members to undertake this task.

--
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599
Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice<http://www.consumersinternational.org/email-confidentiality>. Don't print this email unless necessary.

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From jeremy at ciroap.org  Mon Jan  3 23:18:50 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 12:18:50 +0800
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimkoByyXNarBbphZreymdPCQc_+0p1=YXw6Z+QE@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org> <AANLkTi=DG4g--hQ5BYPCTpz9xg=dAaOWK8ZByEQ8FcXi@mail.gmail.com> <CF3DC711-9CCC-4A55-A701-DB5656DA1901@ciroap.org> <AANLkTimkoByyXNarBbphZreymdPCQc_+0p1=YXw6Z+QE@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6402F5DA-822E-490D-8235-A4CAA6F1DEC7@ciroap.org>

On 04/01/2011, at 11:52 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote:

> Am I a lurker even though I subscribed to the list, please advise?

Along with everyone else who posts to the list, you are as good as a member for most purposes.  The only things that you can't do are:

(a) Vote in the next coordinator election until you self-affirm membership at that time.
(b) Vote on any charter amendments between now and then, if you didn't vote in the last coordinator elections.

But you can still contribute to discussions and consensus-building on the list.

A difficult question that comes up in transitioning to a membership database is, do we have two entries in the database for those who are subscribed to the mailing list twice?  I would answer no; although your multiple subscriptions remain intact, you should only fill in the membership form once.

But since the mailing list subscription form is now the same as the membership database form, this presents a problem for new members who wish to subscribe under multiple addresses: to them, I would just ask that they contact me for help (I'll add a note to this effect to the Web site).

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.

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From jeremy at ciroap.org  Mon Jan  3 23:21:07 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 12:21:07 +0800
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <14978931.6857.1294114392302.JavaMail.prodapps@nskntweba05-app>
References: <14978931.6857.1294114392302.JavaMail.prodapps@nskntweba05-app>
Message-ID: <DAE33C77-2BD5-4E77-8DAC-82BA937C3E77@ciroap.org>

On 04/01/2011, at 12:13 PM, Don Cameron wrote:

> While I am not sure why it is required, or under whose authority - I attempted to subscribe to the requested database however was unable to locate a database privacy policy. Could someone please provide a link? (better would be a URL to the policy on the subscription page) – Hopefully reluctance to enter personal details into an online database without such a policy or protections in place needs no explanation.  

Will do.  Please hang tight until the weekend.  I will also fully explain the Web site's new facilities (blog and wiki space) then.

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.

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From jeremy at ciroap.org  Mon Jan  3 23:27:13 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 12:27:13 +0800
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <93F4C2F3D19A03439EAC16D47C591DDE0330007021@suex07-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org> <AANLkTi=DG4g--hQ5BYPCTpz9xg=dAaOWK8ZByEQ8FcXi@mail.gmail.com>,<CF3DC711-9CCC-4A55-A701-DB5656DA1901@ciroap.org> <93F4C2F3D19A03439EAC16D47C591DDE0330007021@suex07-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <E0443858-9489-416A-919C-534339B239C9@ciroap.org>

On 04/01/2011, at 12:15 PM, Lee W McKnight wrote:

> List subscribers who self-identify as members of civil society are eligible to vote if they've been on the list a  couple months; list members who joined more recently have to wait for the next go-round; list members who do not self-identify as cs are ineligible.  Right?  We need not call them 'lurkers,' if such folks want to speak up we can listen right.

Right.  Some people (eg. members of the IGF secretariat and the ICC) are on the list and deliberately never participate in voting or list discussion.  It was they whom I had in mind as lurkers (but without meaning any derogatory connotation by that).

> Otherwise, just focusing on cleaning up duplicate and defunct email addresses is the main thing right; building out a more comprehensive database on list members is...maybe... a good thing but I'm note sure it is a top priority given plenty of other things to do.  My 2 cents, and I am definitely not volunteering to join you on your charter amendment committee.

Also because people had asked for improvements to the Web site, and I didn't want to have yet another category of people who are signed up on the Web site but not on the mailing list... it would be just too messy and confusing for words.

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.

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From avri at acm.org  Mon Jan  3 23:52:16 2011
From: avri at acm.org (Avri Doria)
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 23:52:16 -0500
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org> <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com> <DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org> <7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <AE61F425-2008-436E-86FC-563B71C9D229@acm.org>


On 3 Jan 2011, at 20:34, Jeremy Malcolm wrote:

> Second, the list has not moved.  But the list does not have all the facilities we need for a membership database, and neither does our Web site.  So what I've done is to create an LDAP database on a third server (igf-online.net) which the other two servers (lists.cprs.org and www.igcaucus.org) use to access the list of IGC members.  Ideally, we would have our own dedicated server which would host all these facilities... but we have no funding, so we are reliant on the generosity of sponsors.


i was wondering what happens when someone send subscribe message to list.cpsr.org?

so i tried:

> Command has been rejected :
> 
>> subscribe governance
>  You are not allowed to subscribe to this list.

I do not think this is a good thing.

people should just be able to subscribe.
they should not be told they are not allowed to subscribe.

i think this needs to be undone.
perhaps we need a subgroup to work with the co-ordinators, and then get list approval, before they make fundamental changes like this to the IGC list.



a.


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From jeremy at ciroap.org  Tue Jan  4 01:05:15 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 14:05:15 +0800
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <AE61F425-2008-436E-86FC-563B71C9D229@acm.org>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org> <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com> <DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org> <7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org> <AE61F425-2008-436E-86FC-563B71C9D229@acm.org>
Message-ID: <B64342CF-E90A-4FD7-9074-94F89E9CC420@ciroap.org>

On 04/01/2011, at 12:52 PM, Avri Doria wrote:

> i was wondering what happens when someone send subscribe message to list.cpsr.org?
> 
> so i tried:
> 
>> Command has been rejected :
>> 
>>> subscribe governance
>> You are not allowed to subscribe to this list.
> 
> I do not think this is a good thing.

Does anyone subscribe to a mailing list by sending email to the list address anymore?  Surely they will just visit the list's Web page.  If they do that, they see a nice friendly message with a link to the new subscription page.  (I can always make this link larger and friendly if needed.)

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.

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From avri at acm.org  Tue Jan  4 01:28:26 2011
From: avri at acm.org (Avri Doria)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 01:28:26 -0500
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <B64342CF-E90A-4FD7-9074-94F89E9CC420@ciroap.org>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org> <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com> <DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org> <7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org> <AE61F425-2008-436E-86FC-563B71C9D229@acm.org> <B64342CF-E90A-4FD7-9074-94F89E9CC420@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <958D4AE5-BCA1-46D9-9595-B23E8C6DB90F@acm.org>

hi,

I always do it that way.  I think many of us do.  All you need to know is the name and address and of a list, and you know how to subscribe.  Also the headers of each email from the list gives that as the instruction on how to do it.

> 
> 	Sender: 	governance-request at lists.cpsr.org
> 	X-No-Archive: 	yes
> 	List-Id: 	<governance.lists.cpsr.org>
> 	List-Archive: 	<http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/arc/governance>
> 	List-Help: 	<mailto:sympa at lists.cpsr.org?subject=help>
> 	List-Owner: 	<mailto:governance-request at lists.cpsr.org>
> 	List-Post: 	<mailto:governance at lists.cpsr.org>
> 	List-Subscribe: 	<mailto:sympa at lists.cpsr.org?subject=subscribe%20governance>
> 	List-Unsubscribe: 	<mailto:sympa at lists.cpsr.org?subject=unsubscribe%20governance>
> 	X-Pstn-Neptune: 	0/0/0.00/0
> 


I think this is a severe change that needs to be undone. I also do not think this is the kind of change that co-coordinators should be making unilaterally,

I am also very uneasy with the way you are changing what it means to be a member of the IGC.  And with the way you are terming those who participate in the list passively as lurkers and making claims about members of the IGF secretariat being just lurkers.  I know of at least 2 part time members of the IGF secretariat who are active list participants, though they may when on contract restrict the comments they make about the IGF.  Besides, it is the nature of this list to be open, and I do not believe you are empowered to change that in any way or to denigrate those who have joined the list only to follow the discussions.

a.


On 4 Jan 2011, at 01:05, Jeremy Malcolm wrote:

> On 04/01/2011, at 12:52 PM, Avri Doria wrote:
> 
>> i was wondering what happens when someone send subscribe message to list.cpsr.org?
>> 
>> so i tried:
>> 
>>> Command has been rejected :
>>> 
>>>> subscribe governance
>>> You are not allowed to subscribe to this list.
>> 
>> I do not think this is a good thing.
> 
> Does anyone subscribe to a mailing list by sending email to the list address anymore?  Surely they will just visit the list's Web page.  If they do that, they see a nice friendly message with a link to the new subscription page.  (I can always make this link larger and friendly if needed.)
> 
> -- 
> Jeremy Malcolm
> Project Coordinator
> Consumers International
> Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
> Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
> Tel: +60 3 7726 1599
> 
> Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
> CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
> Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
> for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
> http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
> Twitter #CICongress
> 
> Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.
> 
> 

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From gurstein at gmail.com  Tue Jan  4 01:42:25 2011
From: gurstein at gmail.com (Michael Gurstein)
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 22:42:25 -0800
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <B64342CF-E90A-4FD7-9074-94F89E9CC420@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <279FA9BC489545D0B42F210FFE597ABB@userPC>

Jeremy,

I run several quite active and I think quite useful email lists that follow
precisely the subscription procedure that you have indicated below.  I've
had no complaints and absolutely no confusion on how to sub (unsubbing is
sometimes a problem because people being people and technology being
technology, people forget their passwords or have their email addresses
changed for them peremptorily by sysadmins who, with just a bit of
arrogance, don't both informing them of this process). 

With best regards,

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org
[mailto:governance-request at lists.cpsr.org] On Behalf Of Jeremy Malcolm
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 10:05 PM
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Avri Doria
Subject: Re: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username


On 04/01/2011, at 12:52 PM, Avri Doria wrote:

> i was wondering what happens when someone send subscribe message to
> list.cpsr.org?
> 
> so i tried:
> 
>> Command has been rejected :
>> 
>>> subscribe governance
>> You are not allowed to subscribe to this list.
> 
> I do not think this is a good thing.

Does anyone subscribe to a mailing list by sending email to the list address
anymore?  Surely they will just visit the list's Web page.  If they do that,
they see a nice friendly message with a link to the new subscription page.
(I can always make this link larger and friendly if needed.)

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow's Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer
groups from around the world for four days of debate and discussion on the
issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless
necessary.

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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From jeremy at ciroap.org  Tue Jan  4 01:47:46 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 14:47:46 +0800
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <958D4AE5-BCA1-46D9-9595-B23E8C6DB90F@acm.org>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org> <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com> <DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org> <7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org> <AE61F425-2008-436E-86FC-563B71C9D229@acm.org> <B64342CF-E90A-4FD7-9074-94F89E9CC420@ciroap.org> <958D4AE5-BCA1-46D9-9595-B23E8C6DB90F@acm.org>
Message-ID: <DCF63951-4BAC-4440-A6D7-6CA015558E60@ciroap.org>

On 04/01/2011, at 2:28 PM, Avri Doria wrote:

> I think this is a severe change that needs to be undone. I also do not think this is the kind of change that co-coordinators should be making unilaterally,

Well, I don't agree that any severe change has been made.  The list is still open, it's just the means of subscribing has changed.

If enough people agree with you and disagree with me, then I can re-enable subscriptions via email and via the old Web page.  However, we will then lose a lot of the benefits of having a single subscription page to both the list and the Web resources.

> I am also very uneasy with the way you are changing what it means to be a member of the IGC.

I am not doing that at all.

> And with the way you are terming those who participate in the list passively as lurkers

That is a value-neutral term, as far as I use it.  But I've apologised if anyone was offended by use of that term.

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From dg_cameron at bigpond.com  Tue Jan  4 03:10:13 2011
From: dg_cameron at bigpond.com (Don Cameron)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 19:10:13 +1100
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <B64342CF-E90A-4FD7-9074-94F89E9CC420@ciroap.org>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org> <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com> <DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org> <7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org> <AE61F425-2008-436E-86FC-563B71C9D229@acm.org> <B64342CF-E90A-4FD7-9074-94F89E9CC420@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <001d01cbabe6$d06b1ea0$71415be0$@com>

For the sake of discussion - yes I sub'd to this list (as I do all others)
by means of the list-serv command. 

I also administer several lists, and like many people have had issues in the
past with other lists and administrators that do not support sub and unsub
requests via email; usually resulting in need to email the admin directly to
find-out if a web interface exists and where it is, or when not, for the
admin to manually action my request. This is commonly time consuming and
unnecessary. Modern (and less-than-modern) email list software supports
list-serv commands and these really should be available to people wishing to
use them.

Perhaps I should also mention it was only today that I first visited the web
page for this forum - I doubt I will remember where it is come time to unsub
from this list. Please keep the list-serv commands available.

Don



-----Original Message-----
From: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org
[mailto:governance-request at lists.cpsr.org] On Behalf Of Jeremy Malcolm
Sent: Tuesday, 4 January 2011 5:05 PM
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Avri Doria
Subject: Re: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username

On 04/01/2011, at 12:52 PM, Avri Doria wrote:

> i was wondering what happens when someone send subscribe message to
list.cpsr.org?
> 
> so i tried:
> 
>> Command has been rejected :
>> 
>>> subscribe governance
>> You are not allowed to subscribe to this list.
> 
> I do not think this is a good thing.

slate_t=

____________________________________________________________
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From jeremy at ciroap.org  Tue Jan  4 03:19:25 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 16:19:25 +0800
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <001d01cbabe6$d06b1ea0$71415be0$@com>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org> <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com> <DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org> <7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org> <AE61F425-2008-436E-86FC-563B71C9D229@acm.org> <B64342CF-E90A-4FD7-9074-94F89E9CC420@ciroap.org> <001d01cbabe6$d06b1ea0$71415be0$@com>
Message-ID: <4331F3E4-5A2F-4B6F-AFFD-39FCE85F190D@ciroap.org>

On 04/01/2011, at 4:10 PM, Don Cameron wrote:

> Perhaps I should also mention it was only today that I first visited the web
> page for this forum - I doubt I will remember where it is come time to unsub
> from this list. Please keep the list-serv commands available.

You are in luck, the unsubscribe command does still work, for when you need it.

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

For all list information and functions, see:
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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

From roland at internetpolicyagency.com  Tue Jan  4 03:34:05 2011
From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 08:34:05 +0000
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <B64342CF-E90A-4FD7-9074-94F89E9CC420@ciroap.org>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org>
 <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com>
 <DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org>
 <7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org>
 <AE61F425-2008-436E-86FC-563B71C9D229@acm.org>
 <B64342CF-E90A-4FD7-9074-94F89E9CC420@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <AhNbMem9ttINFAMl@internetpolicyagency.com>

In message <B64342CF-E90A-4FD7-9074-94F89E9CC420 at ciroap.org>, at 
14:05:15 on Tue, 4 Jan 2011, Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org> writes

>Does anyone subscribe to a mailing list by sending email to the list
>address anymore?

Most people to most lists - yes. You also have to remember that email is 
a much more robust protocol than http, especially for those users 
experiencing long term access issues. (Although if you are losing emails 
to any of your email addresses, I suggest you take that up as a matter 
of urgency with your system administrators.)

>Surely they will just visit the list's Web page.

It's an EMAIL list.

If the community prefers a web forum (I wouldn't, but others may 
disagree), then by all means have that; but this is a list about 
Internet Governance and there are accepted ways to govern a mailing 
list, which should not be changed lightly.

-- 
Roland Perry
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

For all list information and functions, see:
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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


From jeremy at ciroap.org  Tue Jan  4 03:43:34 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 16:43:34 +0800
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <AhNbMem9ttINFAMl@internetpolicyagency.com>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org> <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com> <DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org> <7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org> <AE61F425-2008-436E-86FC-563B71C9D229@acm.org> <B64342CF-E90A-4FD7-9074-94F89E9CC420@ciroap.org> <AhNbMem9ttINFAMl@internetpolicyagency.com>
Message-ID: <6BE339B3-5FEF-47F4-813D-B4EFDE66F1EC@ciroap.org>

On 04/01/2011, at 4:34 PM, Roland Perry wrote:

>> Surely they will just visit the list's Web page.
> 
> It's an EMAIL list.
> 
> If the community prefers a web forum (I wouldn't, but others may disagree), then by all means have that; but this is a list about Internet Governance and there are accepted ways to govern a mailing list, which should not be changed lightly.

As a compromise, I have re-enabled the old interface for subscriptions (including by email), but made it subject to confirmation, so that I can alert them to the need to join on the Web page too (unless they intend to purely lurk).

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

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From nb at bollow.ch  Tue Jan  4 05:03:15 2011
From: nb at bollow.ch (Norbert Bollow)
Date: Tue,  4 Jan 2011 11:03:15 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <DCF63951-4BAC-4440-A6D7-6CA015558E60@ciroap.org> (message from
	Jeremy Malcolm on Tue, 4 Jan 2011 14:47:46 +0800)
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org> <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com> <DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org> <7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org> <AE61F425-2008-436E-86FC-563B71C9D229@acm.org> <B64342CF-E90A-4FD7-9074-94F89E9CC420@ciroap.org> <958D4AE5-BCA1-46D9-9595-B23E8C6DB90F@acm.org> <DCF63951-4BAC-4440-A6D7-6CA015558E60@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <20110104100315.8745F15C0E7@quill.bollow.ch>

Dear all
  Having just yesterday re-subscribed to this list after a long
absence (the absence was due to time constraints, not for reasons
of any kind of disagreement), here are a few comments from my
perspective:

Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org> wrote:
> On 04/01/2011, at 2:28 PM, Avri Doria wrote:
> 
> > I think this is a severe change that needs to be undone. I also do
> > not think this is the kind of change that co-coordinators should
> > be making unilaterally,
> 
> Well, I don't agree that any severe change has been made.  The list
> is still open, it's just the means of subscribing has changed.

I would agree with Avri that it's a severe change that apparantly
now subscription requests have to be approved manually, even if
the policy is to accept all subscription requests.

Reading the message that my account would have to be approved made
me wonder how long it would take for anyone to get around to doing
that... it reminded me of another list where I had subscribed some
time back where manual approval of subscription requests was required,
and where it took the list administrator literally months to get
around to processing the subscription request. In fact, together with
the fact that the wiki was totally empty, it made me wonder whether
the IGC was still alive.

I don't think that this is the kind of things that we'd want new
subscribers to think about initally.

> If enough people agree with you and disagree with me, then I can
> re-enable subscriptions via email and via the old Web page.
> However, we will then lose a lot of the benefits of having a single
> subscription page to both the list and the Web resources.

I think that it's quite acceptable to use a web-based subscription
interface.

However, the List-Subscribe: header should be fixed to point to
the correct URI rather than to Sympa's email interface. Also the
message from Sympa to people trying to use the email interface
should be fixed to refer people to the web interface instead of
giving the wrong and misleading and in a way even insulting message
"You are not allowed to subscribe to this list."

> > I am also very uneasy with the way you are changing what it means
> > to be a member of the IGC.
> 
> I am not doing that at all.
> 
> > And with the way you are terming those who participate in the list
> > passively as lurkers
> 
> That is a value-neutral term, as far as I use it.  But I've
> apologised if anyone was offended by use of that term.

I agree with Jeremy that at least among people who are experienced
in using email lists, it'a totally value-neutral term.

However, the term is likely to be misunderstood by people who do
not come with a good working knowledge of "mailing list jargon".

Therefore, in my opinion, if we're going to use this word, it
would be important to at least explain its meaning in a "welcome
message" that is emailed to new subscribers, together with the
clarification that "lurking" on email lists is quite acceptable
behavior, and in fact it is what most active mailing list users
do most of the time on most of the lists to which they subscribe.

Greetings,
Norbert
____________________________________________________________
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For all list information and functions, see:
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From roland at internetpolicyagency.com  Tue Jan  4 05:24:16 2011
From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 10:24:16 +0000
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <6BE339B3-5FEF-47F4-813D-B4EFDE66F1EC@ciroap.org>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org>
 <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com>
 <DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org>
 <7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org>
 <AE61F425-2008-436E-86FC-563B71C9D229@acm.org>
 <B64342CF-E90A-4FD7-9074-94F89E9CC420@ciroap.org>
 <AhNbMem9ttINFAMl@internetpolicyagency.com>
 <6BE339B3-5FEF-47F4-813D-B4EFDE66F1EC@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <K2mp5UxQVvINFAt6@perry.co.uk>

In message <6BE339B3-5FEF-47F4-813D-B4EFDE66F1EC at ciroap.org>, at 
16:43:34 on Tue, 4 Jan 2011, Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org> 
remarked:
>>> Surely they will just visit the list's Web page.
>>
>> It's an EMAIL list.
>>
>> If the community prefers a web forum (I wouldn't, but others may disagree), then by all means have that; but this is a list about Internet
>>Governance and there are accepted ways to govern a mailing list, which should not be changed lightly.
>
>As a compromise, I have re-enabled the old interface for subscriptions (including by email), but made it subject to confirmation, so that I can
>alert them to the need to join on the Web page too (unless they intend to purely lurk).

There should be no need to "join on a web page too".

Are you saying that having "joined" the list by email, they can 
immediately and without any further ado lurk (ie receive mail from the 
list); but if they want to post, they have to do more than confirm their 
registration by email?
-- 
Roland Perry
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

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From jeremy at ciroap.org  Tue Jan  4 05:29:01 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 18:29:01 +0800
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <K2mp5UxQVvINFAt6@perry.co.uk>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org> <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com> <DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org> <7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org> <AE61F425-2008-436E-86FC-563B71C9D229@acm.org> <B64342CF-E90A-4FD7-9074-94F89E9CC420@ciroap.org> <AhNbMem9ttINFAMl@internetpolicyagency.com> <6BE339B3-5FEF-47F4-813D-B4EFDE66F1EC@ciroap.org> <K2mp5UxQVvINFAt6@perry.co.uk>
Message-ID: <572966D0-D781-48A6-A6DC-8916193DF8C0@ciroap.org>

On 04/01/2011, at 6:24 PM, Roland Perry wrote:

> Are you saying that having "joined" the list by email, they can immediately and without any further ado lurk (ie receive mail from the list); but if they want to post, they have to do more than confirm their registration by email?

No, only if they want to participate in an election or poll, post content to the IGC Web site, or comment on a pending statement using our Web-based tools.  For those who subscribe via the IGC Web site, they can automatically do all those things, as well as receiving list mail.

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

For all list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
To edit your profile and for other IGC information, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


From roland at internetpolicyagency.com  Tue Jan  4 06:05:49 2011
From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 11:05:49 +0000
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <572966D0-D781-48A6-A6DC-8916193DF8C0@ciroap.org>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org>
 <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com>
 <DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org>
 <7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org>
 <AE61F425-2008-436E-86FC-563B71C9D229@acm.org>
 <B64342CF-E90A-4FD7-9074-94F89E9CC420@ciroap.org>
 <AhNbMem9ttINFAMl@internetpolicyagency.com>
 <6BE339B3-5FEF-47F4-813D-B4EFDE66F1EC@ciroap.org>
 <K2mp5UxQVvINFAt6@perry.co.uk>
 <572966D0-D781-48A6-A6DC-8916193DF8C0@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <pmRhN9xN8vINFAJX@internetpolicyagency.com>

In message <572966D0-D781-48A6-A6DC-8916193DF8C0 at ciroap.org>, at 
18:29:01 on Tue, 4 Jan 2011, Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org> writes

 >... only if they want to... comment on a pending statement using our
 > Web-based tools.

I hope people (all of them) will still be able to comment by email - 
some of these recent statements have been somewhat rushed through (by 
force of circumstances, but the charter needs to reflect this) and we 
should take care when restricting people's ability to participate.
-- 
Roland Perry
____________________________________________________________
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From williams.deirdre at gmail.com  Tue Jan  4 06:39:55 2011
From: williams.deirdre at gmail.com (Deirdre Williams)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 07:39:55 -0400
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <DCF63951-4BAC-4440-A6D7-6CA015558E60@ciroap.org>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org>
 <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com> <DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org>
 <7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org> <AE61F425-2008-436E-86FC-563B71C9D229@acm.org>
 <B64342CF-E90A-4FD7-9074-94F89E9CC420@ciroap.org> <958D4AE5-BCA1-46D9-9595-B23E8C6DB90F@acm.org>
 <DCF63951-4BAC-4440-A6D7-6CA015558E60@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimuxZ5+6zPL9CRGN_oXWasui_XK+v49phA9jf3v@mail.gmail.com>

On 4 January 2011 02:47, Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org> wrote:

> On 04/01/2011, at 2:28 PM, Avri Doria wrote:
>
>
> > And with the way you are terming those who participate in the list
> passively as lurkers
>
> That is a value-neutral term, as far as I use it.  But I've apologised if
> anyone was offended by use of that term.
>

"We are doing this because, until now, there has been no proper IGC
membership list, other than the list of subscribers to the governance
mailing list (which contains many non-member lurkers, duplicate
subscriptions and some defunct accounts)."

The intention of my comment at least was not that I found the term itself
offensive, but that in the context that was used (see above) the suggestion
appeared to be that "lurkers" were undesirable and should be removed from
the list of subscribers - since they were included in a list with "duplicate
subscriptions" and "defunct accounts". Also that "lurkers", by definition,
were not members. Since these views seem to disagree fundamentally with my
understanding of the way the Internet Governance Caucus is supposed to work
I felt that it was necessary to challenge them.
I apologise in turn if I misunderstood your intention. :-)

Deirdre

>
> --
> Jeremy Malcolm
> Project Coordinator
> Consumers International
> Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
> Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
> Malaysia
> Tel: +60 3 7726 1599
>
> Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers
> CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
> Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer
> groups from around the world
> for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to
> consumers. Register now!
> http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
> Twitter #CICongress
>
> Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless
> necessary.
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>



-- 
“The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
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From jeremy at ciroap.org  Tue Jan  4 06:46:21 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 19:46:21 +0800
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimuxZ5+6zPL9CRGN_oXWasui_XK+v49phA9jf3v@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org> <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com> <DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org> <7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org> <AE61F425-2008-436E-86FC-563B71C9D229@acm.org> <B64342CF-E90A-4FD7-9074-94F89E9CC420@ciroap.org> <958D4AE5-BCA1-46D9-9595-B23E8C6DB90F@acm.org> <DCF63951-4BAC-4440-A6D7-6CA015558E60@ciroap.org> <AANLkTimuxZ5+6zPL9CRGN_oXWasui_XK+v49phA9jf3v@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <83157CF2-CEE5-426A-9328-E841AB376835@ciroap.org>

On 04/01/2011, at 7:39 PM, Deirdre Williams wrote:

> The intention of my comment at least was not that I found the term itself offensive, but that in the context that was used (see above) the suggestion appeared to be that "lurkers" were undesirable and should be removed from the list of subscribers - since they were included in a list with "duplicate subscriptions" and "defunct accounts". Also that "lurkers", by definition, were not members. Since these views seem to disagree fundamentally with my understanding of the way the Internet Governance Caucus is supposed to work I felt that it was necessary to challenge them.
> I apologise in turn if I misunderstood your intention. :-)

No problem.  I intended to convey that every year it is necessary to separate the lurkers from the voters, in order to create the list of voter-members that the charter requires.  Until now, this has been labour-intensive and error-prone.  The new infrastructure I'm putting in place will make it faster and easier.

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.

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From avri at acm.org  Tue Jan  4 07:01:42 2011
From: avri at acm.org (Avri Doria)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 07:01:42 -0500
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <6BE339B3-5FEF-47F4-813D-B4EFDE66F1EC@ciroap.org>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org> <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com> <DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org> <7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org> <AE61F425-2008-436E-86FC-563B71C9D229@acm.org> <B64342CF-E90A-4FD7-9074-94F89E9CC420@ciroap.org> <AhNbMem9ttINFAMl@internetpolicyagency.com> <6BE339B3-5FEF-47F4-813D-B4EFDE66F1EC@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <413DA943-7A0D-43E4-ABD2-33E2B87CC73D@acm.org>

Hi,

that is one step better, but still not adequate.  you are still making subscription depend on the good graces of the co-coordinator.  An extra power that was not assigned in the charter.

If you want them to join your web interface, then just put a message in the signon message telling that when their subscription is confirmed with the email check.  then they can do so or not as they please.

Also, you get a confirmation message each time someone signs on.  you could automate a web page signon process based on receipt of that message.

a.

On 4 Jan 2011, at 03:43, Jeremy Malcolm wrote:

> On 04/01/2011, at 4:34 PM, Roland Perry wrote:
> 
>>> Surely they will just visit the list's Web page.
>> 
>> It's an EMAIL list.
>> 
>> If the community prefers a web forum (I wouldn't, but others may disagree), then by all means have that; but this is a list about Internet Governance and there are accepted ways to govern a mailing list, which should not be changed lightly.
> 
> As a compromise, I have re-enabled the old interface for subscriptions (including by email), but made it subject to confirmation, so that I can alert them to the need to join on the Web page too (unless they intend to purely lurk).
> 
> -- 
> Jeremy Malcolm
> Project Coordinator
> Consumers International
> Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
> Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
> Tel: +60 3 7726 1599
> 
> Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
> CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
> Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
> for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
> http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
> Twitter #CICongress
> 
> Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>    governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>    governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> 
> For all list information and functions, see:
>    http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

____________________________________________________________
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From tijani.benjemaa at planet.tn  Tue Jan  4 07:03:08 2011
From: tijani.benjemaa at planet.tn (Tijani BEN JEMAA)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 13:03:08 +0100
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org> <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com> <DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org> <7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <1D075DFBC9B54C09AE6100F17D5B85E1@MTBJ>

Jeremy,

 

I registered as you asked, and now, I received the username and the
password. I noticed 3 anomalies:

*         Under “organization”, there is a name that I don’t know, and that
is not the name of my organization

*         Under “Home page”, there is an URL which is my organization one

*         Under “History”, it’s mentioned that I’m member since 10 hours or
so. Does it mean that I’m now considered a new member of the IGC?

 

------------------------------------------------------------

Tijani BEN JEMAA

Vice Chairman of CIC

World Federation of Engineering Organizations

Phone : + 216 70 825 231

Mobile : + 216 98 330 114

Fax     : + 216 70 825 231

------------------------------------------------------------

-----Message d'origine-----
De : governance-request at lists.cpsr.org
[mailto:governance-request at lists.cpsr.org] De la part de Jeremy Malcolm
Envoyé : mardi 4 janvier 2011 02:35
À : governance at lists.cpsr.org
Cc : Roland Perry
Objet : Re: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username

 

On 03/01/2011, at 8:15 PM, Jeremy Malcolm wrote:

 

> On 02/01/2011, at 10:40 PM, Roland Perry wrote:

> 

>> Having registered and validated (an extra step not mentioned above) it
then says the account has to be "authorised". Which is perhaps why...

 

I've just noticed I'm missing some emails (my work email address has been
down), in which people are expressing a couple of concerns that I need to
address.

 

First, there is no change to the criteria for IGC membership.  The
requirement for registration applications to be approved by an administrator
is inherent in the software that we are using.  There is no discretion on my
part to refuse applications (perhaps except for obvious spam registrations,
of which there have been none so far).  If it's a big concern, probably we
could amend the software to remove the requirement for administrator's
approval.

 

Second, the list has not moved.  But the list does not have all the
facilities we need for a membership database, and neither does our Web site.
So what I've done is to create an LDAP database on a third server
(igf-online.net) which the other two servers (lists.cprs.org and
www.igcaucus.org) use to access the list of IGC members.  Ideally, we would
have our own dedicated server which would host all these facilities... but
we have no funding, so we are reliant on the generosity of sponsors.

 

I'm happy to address any other concerns as they come up.

 

-- 

Jeremy Malcolm

Project Coordinator

Consumers International

Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East

Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
Malaysia

Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

 

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 

CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong

Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer
groups from around the world

for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to
consumers. Register now!

http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress

Twitter #CICongress

 

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless
necessary.

 

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From dogwallah at gmail.com  Tue Jan  4 10:41:35 2011
From: dogwallah at gmail.com (McTim)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 18:41:35 +0300
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <958D4AE5-BCA1-46D9-9595-B23E8C6DB90F@acm.org>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org>
	<bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com>
	<DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org>
	<7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org>
	<AE61F425-2008-436E-86FC-563B71C9D229@acm.org>
	<B64342CF-E90A-4FD7-9074-94F89E9CC420@ciroap.org>
	<958D4AE5-BCA1-46D9-9595-B23E8C6DB90F@acm.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimAi7ka6U_rcCUXH5vSz2kPNuaf-9CwQQrrr8QK@mail.gmail.com>

I agree with Avri, drastic change, unilaterally done, would like to
see it undone. Am on safari right now, actually surrounded by
elephants, so im not going to spend time quoting the charter, but i
dont think this change is inline with it. Rgds, mctim

On 1/4/11, Avri Doria <avri at acm.org> wrote:
> hi,
>
> I always do it that way.  I think many of us do.  All you need to know is
> the name and address and of a list, and you know how to subscribe.  Also the
> headers of each email from the list gives that as the instruction on how to
> do it.
>
>>
>> 	Sender: 	governance-request at lists.cpsr.org
>> 	X-No-Archive: 	yes
>> 	List-Id: 	<governance.lists.cpsr.org>
>> 	List-Archive: 	<http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/arc/governance>
>> 	List-Help: 	<mailto:sympa at lists.cpsr.org?subject=help>
>> 	List-Owner: 	<mailto:governance-request at lists.cpsr.org>
>> 	List-Post: 	<mailto:governance at lists.cpsr.org>
>> 	List-Subscribe:
>> 	<mailto:sympa at lists.cpsr.org?subject=subscribe%20governance>
>> 	List-Unsubscribe:
>> 	<mailto:sympa at lists.cpsr.org?subject=unsubscribe%20governance>
>> 	X-Pstn-Neptune: 	0/0/0.00/0
>>
>
>
> I think this is a severe change that needs to be undone. I also do not think
> this is the kind of change that co-coordinators should be making
> unilaterally,
>
> I am also very uneasy with the way you are changing what it means to be a
> member of the IGC.  And with the way you are terming those who participate
> in the list passively as lurkers and making claims about members of the IGF
> secretariat being just lurkers.  I know of at least 2 part time members of
> the IGF secretariat who are active list participants, though they may when
> on contract restrict the comments they make about the IGF.  Besides, it is
> the nature of this list to be open, and I do not believe you are empowered
> to change that in any way or to denigrate those who have joined the list
> only to follow the discussions.
>
> a.
>
>
> On 4 Jan 2011, at 01:05, Jeremy Malcolm wrote:
>
>> On 04/01/2011, at 12:52 PM, Avri Doria wrote:
>>
>>> i was wondering what happens when someone send subscribe message to
>>> list.cpsr.org?
>>>
>>> so i tried:
>>>
>>>> Command has been rejected :
>>>>
>>>>> subscribe governance
>>>> You are not allowed to subscribe to this list.
>>>
>>> I do not think this is a good thing.
>>
>> Does anyone subscribe to a mailing list by sending email to the list
>> address anymore?  Surely they will just visit the list's Web page.  If
>> they do that, they see a nice friendly message with a link to the new
>> subscription page.  (I can always make this link larger and friendly if
>> needed.)
>>
>> --
>> Jeremy Malcolm
>> Project Coordinator
>> Consumers International
>> Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
>> Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
>> Malaysia
>> Tel: +60 3 7726 1599
>>
>> Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers
>> CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
>> Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer
>> groups from around the world
>> for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to
>> consumers. Register now!
>> http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
>> Twitter #CICongress
>>
>> Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless
>> necessary.
>>
>>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

-- 
Sent from my mobile device

Cheers,

McTim
"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A
route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel
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From fm-lists at st-kilda.org  Tue Jan  4 13:37:07 2011
From: fm-lists at st-kilda.org (Fearghas McKay)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 18:37:07 +0000
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <B64342CF-E90A-4FD7-9074-94F89E9CC420@ciroap.org>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org> <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com> <DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org> <7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org> <AE61F425-2008-436E-86FC-563B71C9D229@acm.org> <B64342CF-E90A-4FD7-9074-94F89E9CC420@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <ED890AAD-E863-478F-ADF2-2381677B1B5B@st-kilda.org>


On 4 Jan 2011, at 06:05, Jeremy Malcolm wrote:

> Does anyone subscribe to a mailing list by sending email to the list address anymore?  Surely they will just visit the list's Web page.  If they do that, they see a nice friendly message with a link to the new subscription page.  (I can always make this link larger and friendly if needed.)

Most of the lists I subscribe to I do via email.

Please at least change the message to something other than "go away" - i.e. please come over here and register via the website. Life is to short to then start trying to guess the list's web page having been told I can't subscribe.

However I do think the move is generally in the right direction. 

Thanks
 
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From fm-lists at st-kilda.org  Tue Jan  4 13:39:12 2011
From: fm-lists at st-kilda.org (Fearghas McKay)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 18:39:12 +0000
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <DCF63951-4BAC-4440-A6D7-6CA015558E60@ciroap.org>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org> <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com> <DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org> <7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org> <AE61F425-2008-436E-86FC-563B71C9D229@acm.org> <B64342CF-E90A-4FD7-9074-94F89E9CC420@ciroap.org> <958D4AE5-BCA1-46D9-9595-B23E8C6DB90F@acm.org> <DCF63951-4BAC-4440-A6D7-6CA015558E60@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <49B40EE4-136E-4B68-8468-C4843869EFB1@st-kilda.org>


On 4 Jan 2011, at 06:47, Jeremy Malcolm wrote:

> If enough people agree with you and disagree with me, then I can re-enable subscriptions via email and via the old Web page.  However, we will then lose a lot of the benefits of having a single subscription page to both the list and the Web resources.

You can send information in the welcome mail asking people to visit the website to provide the extra information so that they can partake in all the new community features.

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From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com  Tue Jan  4 14:08:26 2011
From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 07:08:26 +1200
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <49B40EE4-136E-4B68-8468-C4843869EFB1@st-kilda.org>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org>
	<bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com>
	<DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org>
	<7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org>
	<AE61F425-2008-436E-86FC-563B71C9D229@acm.org>
	<B64342CF-E90A-4FD7-9074-94F89E9CC420@ciroap.org>
	<958D4AE5-BCA1-46D9-9595-B23E8C6DB90F@acm.org>
	<DCF63951-4BAC-4440-A6D7-6CA015558E60@ciroap.org>
	<49B40EE4-136E-4B68-8468-C4843869EFB1@st-kilda.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimn_PBZVJhhBWVDK-cTuQUwepGuf7=BQyfaJycA@mail.gmail.com>

Jeremy,

I subscribed to this list via email. There are numerous scenarios, one is if
your website always has visibility, the reality is that it could be 2 or
three clicks away for a person to access it. I was on another site and it
made reference to some groups and I sent an email and hence my membership in
the Mailing List.

>From a consumer perspective, think of the consumer who is unfamiliar with
the world of Internet Governance and wishes to educate him or herself, yes
you can educate them via having an excellent website but you also need to
make membership hassle free and as easy as sending an email, I suppose.
Within the Welcome Message, you can include the website as part of the
welcome message so people can still have the option of whether they wish to
visit the website and you could invite them to bookmark the page.

Just a Thought.

Sala

On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 7:39 AM, Fearghas McKay <fm-lists at st-kilda.org>wrote:

>
> On 4 Jan 2011, at 06:47, Jeremy Malcolm wrote:
>
> > If enough people agree with you and disagree with me, then I can
> re-enable subscriptions via email and via the old Web page.  However, we
> will then lose a lot of the benefits of having a single subscription page to
> both the list and the Web resources.
>
> You can send information in the welcome mail asking people to visit the
> website to provide the extra information so that they can partake in all the
> new community features.
>
>        f____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> To edit your profile and for other IGC information, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
>  Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>



-- 
Salanieta Tudrau Tamanikaiwaimaro
P.O.Box 17862
Suva
Fiji Islands

Cell: +679 9982851
Alternate Email: s.tamanikaiwaimaro at tfl.com.fj

"Wisdom is far better than riches."
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From dg_cameron at bigpond.com  Tue Jan  4 15:17:40 2011
From: dg_cameron at bigpond.com (Don Cameron)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 07:17:40 +1100
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimuxZ5+6zPL9CRGN_oXWasui_XK+v49phA9jf3v@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org> <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com> <DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org> <7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org> <AE61F425-2008-436E-86FC-563B71C9D229@acm.org> <B64342CF-E90A-4FD7-9074-94F89E9CC420@ciroap.org> <958D4AE5-BCA1-46D9-9595-B23E8C6DB90F@acm.org> <DCF63951-4BAC-4440-A6D7-6CA015558E60@ciroap.org> <AANLkTimuxZ5+6zPL9CRGN_oXWasui_XK+v49phA9jf3v@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001001cbac4c$701c83c0$50558b40$@com>

Fascinating how questions of good list governance stem from the very list
designed to promote good Internet governance through participatory
contribution. If nothing else this is surely a trigger for increased
participation here! (or for the lurkers to arise from the woodwork as it
were :-)

 

I also queried use of the term 'lurker' because of context and association
(with defunct accounts etc.). My apologies if this misunderstood, however
the association was probably inappropriate. I'm still not sure the term is
being used in proper context in conversation when suggesting that 'lurkers'
should be separated from 'voter-members'.

 

Until this furore erupted I was a lurker on this list, and would probably
have remained as such had these dramatic changes not been proposed
(implemented without consensus?) - however being a lurker does not mean I
fail to identify with and associate with civil society, nor do I withdraw my
right to vote (as a member voter) should I so choose - a right is not an
obligation. I lurk because I choose to lurk. I will vote if I choose to
vote.

 

Why is a lurker deemed different from a voter?

 

Perhaps what is really intended is to identify and define people who do not
identify as civil society members? (some of whom may lurk; some of whom may
not)

 

I think care needs to be taken that rights are not removed from people
through these actions.

 

Don

 

 

From: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org
[mailto:governance-request at lists.cpsr.org] On Behalf Of Deirdre Williams
Sent: Tuesday, 4 January 2011 10:40 PM
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Jeremy Malcolm
Subject: Re: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username

 

 

On 4 January 2011 02:47, Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org> wrote:

On 04/01/2011, at 2:28 PM, Avri Doria wrote:

 

> And with the way you are terming those who participate in the list
passively as lurkers

That is a value-neutral term, as far as I use it.  But I've apologised if
anyone was offended by use of that term.

 

"We are doing this because, until now, there has been no proper IGC
membership list, other than the list of subscribers to the governance
mailing list (which contains many non-member lurkers, duplicate
subscriptions and some defunct accounts)."

 

The intention of my comment at least was not that I found the term itself
offensive, but that in the context that was used (see above) the suggestion
appeared to be that "lurkers" were undesirable and should be removed from
the list of subscribers - since they were included in a list with "duplicate
subscriptions" and "defunct accounts". Also that "lurkers", by definition,
were not members. Since these views seem to disagree fundamentally with my
understanding of the way the Internet Governance Caucus is supposed to work
I felt that it was necessary to challenge them.

I apologise in turn if I misunderstood your intention. :-)

 

Deirdre


--
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow's Consumers
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer
groups from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to
consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless
necessary.

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-- 
"The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William
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From froomkin at law.miami.edu  Tue Jan  4 16:09:21 2011
From: froomkin at law.miami.edu (Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 16:09:21 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <1D075DFBC9B54C09AE6100F17D5B85E1@MTBJ>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org> <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com> <DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org> <7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org> <1D075DFBC9B54C09AE6100F17D5B85E1@MTBJ>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1101041606400.9581@localhost.localdomain>


As a long-time reader, if rather quiet one, I too went through the web 
hoops just now.  I do hope it doesn't mean I'll get duplicate copies of 
the messages to the list.  I also join with those who -- while 
appreciating the energy and possible advantages -- would have admired it 
more if it had all happened with a bit more consultation and warning.  As 
regards the suggestion that membership might be dis-approved ("Your e-mail 
account xxxx has been validated. Please wait until your 
account is approved. You will receive login information to your e-mail 
account.") I did find it unsettling.  Approved by whom and according to 
what criteria.

Oh well, back to lurking.


On Tue, 4 Jan 2011, Tijani BEN JEMAA wrote:

> 
> Jeremy,
> 
>  
> 
> I registered as you asked, and now, I received the username and the password. I noticed 3 anomalies:
> 
> ·         Under ?organization?, there is a name that I don?t know, and that is not the name of my organization
> 
> ·         Under ?Home page?, there is an URL which is my organization one
> 
> ·         Under ?History?, it?s mentioned that I?m member since 10 hours or so. Does it mean that I?m now considered a new member
> of the IGC?
> 
>  
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Tijani BEN JEMAA
> 
> Vice Chairman of CIC
> 
> World Federation of Engineering Organizations
> 
> Phone : + 216 70 825 231
> 
> Mobile : + 216 98 330 114
> 
> Fax     : + 216 70 825 231
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : governance-request at lists.cpsr.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.cpsr.org] De la part de Jeremy Malcolm
> Envoyé : mardi 4 janvier 2011 02:35
> À : governance at lists.cpsr.org
> Cc : Roland Perry
> Objet : Re: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
> 
>  
> 
> On 03/01/2011, at 8:15 PM, Jeremy Malcolm wrote:
> 
>  
> 
> > On 02/01/2011, at 10:40 PM, Roland Perry wrote:
> 
> >
> 
> >> Having registered and validated (an extra step not mentioned above) it then says the account has to be "authorised". Which is
> perhaps why...
> 
>  
> 
> I've just noticed I'm missing some emails (my work email address has been down), in which people are expressing a couple of
> concerns that I need to address.
> 
>  
> 
> First, there is no change to the criteria for IGC membership.  The requirement for registration applications to be approved by an
> administrator is inherent in the software that we are using.  There is no discretion on my part to refuse applications (perhaps
> except for obvious spam registrations, of which there have been none so far).  If it's a big concern, probably we could amend the
> software to remove the requirement for administrator's approval.
> 
>  
> 
> Second, the list has not moved.  But the list does not have all the facilities we need for a membership database, and neither does
> our Web site.  So what I've done is to create an LDAP database on a third server (igf-online.net) which the other two servers
> (lists.cprs.org and www.igcaucus.org) use to access the list of IGC members.  Ideally, we would have our own dedicated server
> which would host all these facilities... but we have no funding, so we are reliant on the generosity of sponsors.
> 
>  
> 
> I'm happy to address any other concerns as they come up.
> 
>  
> 
> --
> 
> Jeremy Malcolm
> 
> Project Coordinator
> 
> Consumers International
> 
> Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
> 
> Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
> 
> Tel: +60 3 7726 1599
> 
>  
> 
> Empowering Tomorrow?s Consumers
> 
> CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
> 
> Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
> 
> for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
> 
> http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
> 
> Twitter #CICongress
> 
>  
> 
> Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.
> 
>  
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> 
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> 
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> 
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> 
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> 
>  
> 
> For all list information and functions, see:
> 
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> 
>  
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t=
> 
> 
>

-- 
A. Michael Froomkin, http://www.law.tm Blog: http://www.discourse.net
Laurie Silvers & Mitchell Rubenstein Distinguished Professor of Law
Coordinator of Faculty Research
Editor, Jotwell: The Journal of Things We Like (Lots),  jotwell.com
U. Miami School of Law, P.O. Box 248087, Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA
+1 (305) 284-4285  |    +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax)  |  froomkin at law.tm
                        -->It's cool here.<--____________________________________________________________
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From javier at funredes.org  Tue Jan  4 17:09:57 2011
From: javier at funredes.org (javier at funredes.org)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 17:09:57 -0500 (COT)
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <001001cbac4c$701c83c0$50558b40$@com>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org>
    <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com>
    <DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org>
    <7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org>
    <AE61F425-2008-436E-86FC-563B71C9D229@acm.org>
    <B64342CF-E90A-4FD7-9074-94F89E9CC420@ciroap.org>
    <958D4AE5-BCA1-46D9-9595-B23E8C6DB90F@acm.org>
    <DCF63951-4BAC-4440-A6D7-6CA015558E60@ciroap.org>
    <AANLkTimuxZ5+6zPL9CRGN_oXWasui_XK+v49phA9jf3v@mail.gmail.com>
    <001001cbac4c$701c83c0$50558b40$@com>
Message-ID: <3628.200.118.8.134.1294178997.squirrel@funredes.org>

>
> - however being a lurker does not mean I fail to identify with
> and associate with civil society, nor do I withdraw my right to vote
> (as a member voter) should I so choose - a right is not an obligation.
> I lurk because I choose to lurk. I will vote if I choose to vote.


I agree!



Javier






____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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From hongxueipr at gmail.com  Tue Jan  4 20:29:34 2011
From: hongxueipr at gmail.com (Hong Xue)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 09:29:34 +0800
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <1D075DFBC9B54C09AE6100F17D5B85E1@MTBJ>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org>
	<bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com>
	<DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org>
	<7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org>
	<1D075DFBC9B54C09AE6100F17D5B85E1@MTBJ>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinQ2b3qD4msnBPog226CSTxc7NS7GhYr8ydtEpT@mail.gmail.com>

I have the similar problem on web interface. But both my Organization
name and homepage URL are wrong, not what I had input. I tried to
correct them but my edition triggered a warning.

 "    * warning: ldap_modify() [function.ldap-modify]: Modify: Object
class violation in
/home/igc/www/drupal-6.20/sites/all/modules/ldap_integration/includes/LDAPInterface.inc
on line 260.
    * The data was not written to LDAP."

Now the wrong information is automatically resumed. It seems a bug.
How can it be fixed?

Hong


On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 8:03 PM, Tijani BEN JEMAA
<tijani.benjemaa at planet.tn> wrote:
> Jeremy,
>
>
>
> I registered as you asked, and now, I received the username and the
> password. I noticed 3 anomalies:
>
> ·         Under “organization”, there is a name that I don’t know, and that
> is not the name of my organization
>
> ·         Under “Home page”, there is an URL which is my organization one
>
> ·         Under “History”, it’s mentioned that I’m member since 10 hours or
> so. Does it mean that I’m now considered a new member of the IGC?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Tijani BEN JEMAA
>
> Vice Chairman of CIC
>
> World Federation of Engineering Organizations
>
> Phone : + 216 70 825 231
>
> Mobile : + 216 98 330 114
>
> Fax     : + 216 70 825 231
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : governance-request at lists.cpsr.org
> [mailto:governance-request at lists.cpsr.org] De la part de Jeremy Malcolm
> Envoyé : mardi 4 janvier 2011 02:35
> À : governance at lists.cpsr.org
> Cc : Roland Perry
> Objet : Re: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
>
>
>
> On 03/01/2011, at 8:15 PM, Jeremy Malcolm wrote:
>
>
>
>> On 02/01/2011, at 10:40 PM, Roland Perry wrote:
>
>>
>
>>> Having registered and validated (an extra step not mentioned above) it
>>> then says the account has to be "authorised". Which is perhaps why...
>
>
>
> I've just noticed I'm missing some emails (my work email address has been
> down), in which people are expressing a couple of concerns that I need to
> address.
>
>
>
> First, there is no change to the criteria for IGC membership.  The
> requirement for registration applications to be approved by an administrator
> is inherent in the software that we are using.  There is no discretion on my
> part to refuse applications (perhaps except for obvious spam registrations,
> of which there have been none so far).  If it's a big concern, probably we
> could amend the software to remove the requirement for administrator's
> approval.
>
>
>
> Second, the list has not moved.  But the list does not have all the
> facilities we need for a membership database, and neither does our Web
> site.  So what I've done is to create an LDAP database on a third server
> (igf-online.net) which the other two servers (lists.cprs.org and
> www.igcaucus.org) use to access the list of IGC members.  Ideally, we would
> have our own dedicated server which would host all these facilities... but
> we have no funding, so we are reliant on the generosity of sponsors.
>
>
>
> I'm happy to address any other concerns as they come up.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Jeremy Malcolm
>
> Project Coordinator
>
> Consumers International
>
> Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
>
> Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
> Malaysia
>
> Tel: +60 3 7726 1599
>
>
>
> Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers
>
> CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
>
> Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer
> groups from around the world
>
> for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to
> consumers. Register now!
>
> http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
>
> Twitter #CICongress
>
>
>
> Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless
> necessary.
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
>
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
>
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
>
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>
>
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t=
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> To edit your profile and for other IGC information, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>



-- 
Dr. Hong Xue
Professor of Law
Director of Institute for the Internet Policy & Law (IIPL)
Beijing Normal University
http://www.iipl.org.cn/
19 Xin Jie Kou Wai Street
Beijing 100875 China
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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To be removed from the list, send any message to:
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From nhklein at gmx.net  Tue Jan  4 22:00:09 2011
From: nhklein at gmx.net (Norbert Klein)
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2011 10:00:09 +0700
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <ED890AAD-E863-478F-ADF2-2381677B1B5B@st-kilda.org>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org> <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com> <DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org> <7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org> <AE61F425-2008-436E-86FC-563B71C9D229@acm.org> <B64342CF-E90A-4FD7-9074-94F89E9CC420@ciroap.org> <ED890AAD-E863-478F-ADF2-2381677B1B5B@st-kilda.org>
Message-ID: <4D23DEB9.1090008@gmx.net>

On 01/05/2011 01:37 AM, Fearghas McKay wrote:
>
> Most of the lists I subscribe to I do via email.
>
>   
Same.


And though this may be a thing of the distant past for most on this
list: in some places it is significantly more expensive to log into a
Web site and look around and work there, than sending an e-mail.

I am often surprised how difficult it is to get an understanding for the
huge differences in Internet access cost by people who live in a
different economic environment.

Greetings from Cambodia.

Norbert Klein

c-- 
If you want to know what is going on in Cambodia, please visit
The Mirror: regular reports and comments from Cambodia.

This is the latest weekly editorial of The Mirror:

Christmas Forgotten 
Sunday, 26.12.2010

http://tinyurl.com/2dyhnt2
(to read it, click on the line above.)

And here is something new from time to time - at least every weekend.

The NEW Address of The Mirror:
http://www.cambodiamirror.org

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From jeremy at ciroap.org  Tue Jan  4 22:13:36 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 11:13:36 +0800
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <ED890AAD-E863-478F-ADF2-2381677B1B5B@st-kilda.org>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org> <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com> <DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org> <7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org> <AE61F425-2008-436E-86FC-563B71C9D229@acm.org> <B64342CF-E90A-4FD7-9074-94F89E9CC420@ciroap.org> <ED890AAD-E863-478F-ADF2-2381677B1B5B@st-kilda.org>
Message-ID: <6A4E7D94-177F-491A-A1FF-EF1E53792061@ciroap.org>

On 05/01/2011, at 2:37 AM, Fearghas McKay wrote:

> Please at least change the message to something other than "go away" - i.e. please come over here and register via the website. Life is to short to then start trying to guess the list's web page having been told I can't subscribe.

We can't do that where the list is currently hosted because of limited access to the server.  But the point is moot, because I've reversed the change that caused the message.  In the longer term, we need to look into raising some funds for our own virtual server, so that we can customise our mailing list and Web site more completely.

> However I do think the move is generally in the right direction. 

Thanks.

> You can send information in the welcome mail asking people to visit the website to provide the extra information so that they can partake in all the new community features.

Yes, that's now what we have.

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.

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From jeremy at ciroap.org  Tue Jan  4 22:28:04 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 11:28:04 +0800
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <001001cbac4c$701c83c0$50558b40$@com>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org> <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com> <DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org> <7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org> <AE61F425-2008-436E-86FC-563B71C9D229@acm.org> <B64342CF-E90A-4FD7-9074-94F89E9CC420@ciroap.org> <958D4AE5-BCA1-46D9-9595-B23E8C6DB90F@acm.org> <DCF63951-4BAC-4440-A6D7-6CA015558E60@ciroap.org> <AANLkTimuxZ5+6zPL9CRGN_oXWasui_XK+v49phA9jf3v@mail.gmail.com> <001001cbac4c$701c83c0$50558b40$@com>
Message-ID: <E7AE539B-C840-4DA2-B308-23B191D342B3@ciroap.org>

On 05/01/2011, at 4:17 AM, Don Cameron wrote:

> Until this furore erupted I was a lurker on this list, and would probably have remained as such had these dramatic changes not been proposed (implemented without consensus?) – however being a lurker does not mean I fail to identify with and associate with civil society, nor do I withdraw my right to vote (as a member voter) should I so choose – a right is not an obligation. I lurk because I choose to lurk. I will vote if I choose to vote.
>  
> Why is a lurker deemed different from a voter?

For what it's worth, I still maintain that there was no dramatic change - I essentially just moved the subscription page from the CPSR Web page onto our own Web site.  I just didn't explain this well.

Also I overlooked that many Internet old timers would prefer to maintain the ability to subscribe by email (unsubscribing by email had not been affected).  That change has since been reversed.

Also, carelessly using the word "lurker" that some people found offensive.  But the whole debate over lurkers and members is a non-issue.  I changed nothing in that regard; neither could or would I do so.

> Perhaps what is really intended is to identify and define people who do not identify as civil society members? (some of whom may lurk; some of whom may not)
>  
> I think care needs to be taken that rights are not removed from people through these actions.

This concern, though valid, is unfounded.  The purpose of the changes was simply:

1. To simplify and automate the process of creating the list of eligible voters each year.
2. To simplify and automate the process of creating the list of members who did vote.
3. To open up new avenues of participation on the Web without the need to register twice.

I hope this helps to allay some peoples' concerns. 

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.

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From jeremy at ciroap.org  Tue Jan  4 22:31:46 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 11:31:46 +0800
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1101041606400.9581@localhost.localdomain>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org> <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com> <DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org> <7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org> <1D075DFBC9B54C09AE6100F17D5B85E1@MTBJ> <alpine.LRH.2.00.1101041606400.9581@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <A1F4028E-9F96-48A5-8C11-F398B2A01519@ciroap.org>

On 05/01/2011, at 5:09 AM, Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law wrote:

> As a long-time reader, if rather quiet one, I too went through the web hoops just now.  I do hope it doesn't mean I'll get duplicate copies of the messages to the list.

If you used the same email address, then no you won't.  Sympa (or mailing list software) is smart enough to consolidate your original subscription with the new subscription via the Web site.  You can make changes to your subscription (eg. going into "digest mode") using the Sympa Web interface as per usual, albeit that you might need to reset your password.

> I also join with those who -- while appreciating the energy and possible advantages -- would have admired it more if it had all happened with a bit more consultation and warning.  As regards the suggestion that membership might be dis-approved ("Your e-mail account xxxx has been validated. Please wait until your account is approved. You will receive login information to your e-mail account.") I did find it unsettling.  Approved by whom and according to what criteria.

We do have enough access to our Web site (though not to our mailing list) to fix such unsettling messages.  I'll work on something more comforting.  I'm also working on a privacy policy which I'll post to the list (though any contributions there would be valued).

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.

____________________________________________________________
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From jeremy at ciroap.org  Tue Jan  4 22:44:43 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 11:44:43 +0800
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinQ2b3qD4msnBPog226CSTxc7NS7GhYr8ydtEpT@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org> <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com> <DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org> <7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org> <1D075DFBC9B54C09AE6100F17D5B85E1@MTBJ> <AANLkTinQ2b3qD4msnBPog226CSTxc7NS7GhYr8ydtEpT@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D96C9DB3-2EA9-45A9-AEE5-0477B4803563@ciroap.org>

On 05/01/2011, at 9:29 AM, Hong Xue wrote:

> I have the similar problem on web interface. But both my Organization
> name and homepage URL are wrong, not what I had input. I tried to
> correct them but my edition triggered a warning.
> 
> "    * warning: ldap_modify() [function.ldap-modify]: Modify: Object
> class violation in
> /home/igc/www/drupal-6.20/sites/all/modules/ldap_integration/includes/LDAPInterface.inc
> on line 260.
>    * The data was not written to LDAP."
> 
> Now the wrong information is automatically resumed. It seems a bug.
> How can it be fixed?

For technical problems like these, please just contact me off-list and I can deal with them one-on-one.  I will reply to Hong Xue and Ben off-list.

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.

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From roland at internetpolicyagency.com  Wed Jan  5 02:50:19 2011
From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 07:50:19 +0000
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <E7AE539B-C840-4DA2-B308-23B191D342B3@ciroap.org>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org>
 <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com>
 <DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org>
 <7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org>
 <AE61F425-2008-436E-86FC-563B71C9D229@acm.org>
 <B64342CF-E90A-4FD7-9074-94F89E9CC420@ciroap.org>
 <958D4AE5-BCA1-46D9-9595-B23E8C6DB90F@acm.org>
 <DCF63951-4BAC-4440-A6D7-6CA015558E60@ciroap.org>
 <AANLkTimuxZ5+6zPL9CRGN_oXWasui_XK+v49phA9jf3v@mail.gmail.com>
 <001001cbac4c$701c83c0$50558b40$@com>
 <E7AE539B-C840-4DA2-B308-23B191D342B3@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <pkdBNmO7KCJNFARj@internetpolicyagency.com>

In message <E7AE539B-C840-4DA2-B308-23B191D342B3 at ciroap.org>, at 
11:28:04 on Wed, 5 Jan 2011, Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org> writes

>Also I overlooked that many Internet old timers

...another rather prejudicial label :(

See Norbert's comments on why it's not just tradition, and a desire to 
"do things properly" that causes us to want to work like this.

>would prefer to maintain the ability to subscribe by email

-- 
Roland Perry
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From parminder at itforchange.net  Wed Jan  5 04:54:45 2011
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2011 15:24:45 +0530
Subject: [governance] some notes on the CSTD inter-sessional on 17th Dec
Message-ID: <4D243FE5.4050907@itforchange.net>

Hi

A happy new year to all!

Since much has been lamented about what came out of the CSTD 
inter-sessional, let me start my notes by trying to give it a positive 
spin.

My impression is that something very remarkable and perhaps 
unprecedented happened on the 17th in the CSTD inter-sessional meeting 
which is an important step forward in global governance (I have some 
misgivings too about 'this step' forward which I will discuss in another 
email). I may be wrong and those more well versed with UN system may 
correct me, but this may be the very first time that a 'substantive' UN  
body,  with  political  membership  and status and not just  an  expert  
group,  will have  some specified non-gov permanent  'invited  
participants'  who  'will remain engaged through-out the process'. 
Importantly, these participants are not just 'outside experts' but 
'representatives' of groups other than states.

To the extent that I think this is a big step, in the end, in some ways 
it may even be better that the WG group is not a Chair's WG, which would 
have meant an 'experts group' only giving advise which does not 
constitute a substantive UN body's report, but it is actually a CSTD WG, 
and thus based on political representation and not expertise alone. ( I 
may be reading too much into this, and would be happy for a discussion 
on this issue.)

In any case, our (my organisation's) initial position was a WGIG kind of 
a group. (The WGIG model for the new WG on IGF improvements, 
incidentally, was opposed by many business and technical community 
members at Vilnius.) I have been a great fan of WGIG model and have 
suggested a few times that MAG should rather try to work more in that 
model than its typical abdicating mode when faced with substantive 
issues, which alone can make the IGF more productive. However there has 
been little engagement from the IGC to forward such a model within the 
IGF system. Anyway, this is just to affirm my support for the WGIG model.

Much of the contestation during ther CSTD meeting, whose real substance 
and motives perhaps lie elsewhere, took place around whether the 
proposed WG was a Chair's WG or a CSTD WG. The former could be formed 
more or less in whichever manner the Chair decides, and would be an 
expert group advising the CSTD, after which the commission could decide 
to do what it liked in its substantive communication to ECOSOC and GA. A 
CSTD WG on the other hand will be  a political body with membership 
based on political status. The text of the UN GA resolution indeed had 
some amount of ambiguity about it being a experts group or an 
substantive CSTD WG.

    18. Welcomes the decision by the Economic and Social Council in
    paragraph 30 of its resolution 2010/2 to invite the Chair of the
    Commission on Science and Technology for Development to establish,
    in an open and inclusive manner, a working group which would seek,
    compile and review inputs from all Member States and all other
    stakeholders on improvements to the Internet  Governance Forum, in
    line with the mandate set out in the Tunis Agenda,4 and which would
    submit a report to the Commission at its fourteenth session, in
    2011, with recommendations, as appropriate, that would constitute an
    input by the Commission to the General Assembly, through the
    Economic and Social Council;

While it was the Chair who was invited to form a WG (which could be a 
Chair's WG or as well be a CSTD WG), the last part of the above para is 
significant in saying that the report of the WG will 'constitute an 
input by the Commission to the General Assembly, through the Economic 
and Social Council'. To me,  it really does look very unlikely that an 
expert group assembled by the chair could give a report which will be 
considered 'an input *by *the commission to the GA'.

While I was still rooting for a WGIG model during the meeting, I could 
see that the developing countries group was clear - they were no way 
going to shift from their conviction that it was to be a CSTD WG. (Sure, 
it served their political objective too for it to be a CSTD WG. I dont 
say they were not pressing their politics here as were other actors who 
were present.) This dev countries group pointed to the description 'CSTD 
WG' that has been mentioned in all documents regarding various meetings 
etc on this issue, apart from their interpretation of the text.

If it indeed was to be a substantive CSTD WG with political membership, 
their stand that non-gov participants cannot be equal and full members 
looked difficult to argue against (though I was still trying to argue 
that this is a very new context etc). That would be in violation of all 
rules and precedents, even perhaps of general political sensibilities.

So either this group agreed that it was a Chair's expert group, which I 
realized was not going to happen, or we tried to find  what best could 
be done within the CSTD WG formula. Within this formula there were two 
options being proposed at this point.

One was Egypt's proposal of multistakeholder task forces around specific 
sub-issues that would input their report/ recommendations to the WG 
proper which was to be inter-gov. Second was Brazil's proposal of each 
meeting of WG having speaker/ participants from stakeholder groups, 
leaving it to the stakeholders to decide the speakers/ participants. 
(This later proposal has the problem that only a continuous 
participation of the same non-gov participants throughout the WG's life 
is really meaningful.)

 To proceed from what looked like a Chair's WG versus CSTD WG stalemate, 
seeing that dev countries were not going to move from their 
understanding of it being a CSTD WG, I proposed a new formula to one of 
the most active developing country participant - that of permanent 
'invited participants' 'who will remain fully engaged throughout the 
process'. To me, this appeared the best we could get, and still a 
considerable step forward.

The mentioned dev country rep then suggested the text 'The Chair invites 
the following stakeholders to participate in the Working Group....' 
which is 'the' key part of the agreed document now. I directly suggested 
to the chair to add the part 'will remain fully engaged throughout the 
process' which she graciously did. I thought this statement can be used 
to assure a fair amount of space and rights within the WG. Later, a 
developed country rep, pursuing a similar line of thought, asked for 
inclusion of the word 'interactively' - as in 'interactively 
participate'. This was very useful. What we were trying here was to get 
some text in to try and guarantee that once the WG is set up, more 
excluding norms may not evolve by practise.

Pushing it further towards greater equality of status of non-gov 
participants, Anriette suggested  that the text be changed to 'chair 
invites to join' rather than participate. This text went up for a while 
but got removed later.

I think that overall it may not be too bad a deal we got. I would much 
prefer that we now move on to discussing what substantive changes or 
improvements we want to see in the IGF. If we get a good set of 5 people 
in, we can use the civil society's greater readiness to come up with new 
ideas, develop implementable details around them etc to make some really 
good impact.

We need to talk and collaborate with the business and technical 
community as we need to with gov reps for pushing what we want to see 
happen (and to figure that out is more important). However, developing 
any kind of grand alliance with a shrill anti dev country govs rhetoric  
may not be the best thing to do now. Yes, our interests are shared vis a 
vis greater openness of processes, and we will need to huddle together 
every time new efforts get made to demote the level of participation of 
nongov stakeholders in the WG processes. But that is a tactical thing we 
have always been doing. We may have known convergences in a few 
substantive areas - like our opposition to moving the IGF secretariat to 
NY and the desire for keeping it independent etc.... However, there are 
also a large number of divergences in key areas where the idea may be to 
make IGF as a more valuable institution to be able to really contribute 
to global IG related policies. These areas may be the more important 
ones to focus on in terms of real IGF improvements.

In this regard, apart from mentioning how the IGF should complement, and 
thus contribute to, the proposed process of enhanced cooperation which 
would directly deal with global Internet policy issues, the relevant 
part of the GA resolution also gives a significant pointer of the 
directions in which it would like to see improvements in the IGF .

"....... while recognizing at the same time the need to improve it 
(IGF), with a view to linking it to the broader dialogue on global 
Internet governance".

Parminder









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From roland at internetpolicyagency.com  Wed Jan  5 05:27:27 2011
From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 10:27:27 +0000
Subject: [governance] some notes on the CSTD inter-sessional on 17th Dec
In-Reply-To: <4D243FE5.4050907@itforchange.net>
References: <4D243FE5.4050907@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <+kgEdpWPeEJNFAyg@internetpolicyagency.com>

In message <4D243FE5.4050907 at itforchange.net>, at 15:24:45 on Wed, 5 Jan
2011, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> writes

        "18. Welcomes the decision by the Economic and Social Council in
        paragraph 30 of its resolution 2010/2 to invite the Chair of the
        Commission on Science and Technology for Development to
        establish, in an open and inclusive manner, a working group
        which would seek, compile and review inputs from all Member
        States and all other stakeholders on improvements to the
        Internet Governance Forum, in line with the mandate set out in
        the Tunis Agenda,4 and which would submit a report to the
        Commission at its fourteenth session, in 2011, with
        recommendations, as appropriate, that would constitute an input
        by the Commission to the General Assembly, through the Economic
        and Social Council;

>While it was the Chair who was invited to form a WG (which could be a
>Chair's WG or as well be a CSTD WG), the last part of the above para is
>significant in saying that the report of the WG will 'constitute an
>input by the Commission to the General Assembly, through the Economic
>and Social Council'. To me,  it really does look very unlikely that an
>expert group assembled by the chair could give a report which will be
>considered 'an input by the commission to the GA'.

From my experience of the way that the CSTD/ECOSOC works, I think the WG
will produce a report, and that report will be presented[1] to the
Commission, and the Commission will create[2] and agree[3] a separate
"Draft ECOSOC Resolution", and it's that draft resolution which will be
the 'recommendation' and 'input' sent to ECOSOC (for further discussion
and later transmission to GA).

R.

[1] Both as an input paper and a discussion item
[2] Most of this work done before the physical meeting, and would echo
     the report's conclusions closely.
[3] Much of this work in late-night sessions, I expect
-- 
Roland Perry
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From ca at cafonso.ca  Wed Jan  5 05:41:27 2011
From: ca at cafonso.ca (Carlos A. Afonso)
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2011 08:41:27 -0200
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <A1F4028E-9F96-48A5-8C11-F398B2A01519@ciroap.org>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org> <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com> <DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org> <7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org> <1D075DFBC9B54C09AE6100F17D5B85E1@MTBJ> <alpine.LRH.2.00.1101041606400.9581@localhost.localdomain> <A1F4028E-9F96-48A5-8C11-F398B2A01519@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <4D244AD7.2010102@cafonso.ca>

I have registered per Jeremy's instructions. I find really funny that 
several people who are finding all kinds of problems may have happily 
subscribed to Facebook and other commercial social networking services 
without questioning. No, I did not subscribe to Facebook :)

--c.a.

On 01/05/2011 01:31 AM, Jeremy Malcolm wrote:
> On 05/01/2011, at 5:09 AM, Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law wrote:
>
>> As a long-time reader, if rather quiet one, I too went through the web hoops just now.  I do hope it doesn't mean I'll get duplicate copies of the messages to the list.
>
> If you used the same email address, then no you won't.  Sympa (or mailing list software) is smart enough to consolidate your original subscription with the new subscription via the Web site.  You can make changes to your subscription (eg. going into "digest mode") using the Sympa Web interface as per usual, albeit that you might need to reset your password.
>
>> I also join with those who -- while appreciating the energy and possible advantages -- would have admired it more if it had all happened with a bit more consultation and warning.  As regards the suggestion that membership might be dis-approved ("Your e-mail account xxxx has been validated. Please wait until your account is approved. You will receive login information to your e-mail account.") I did find it unsettling.  Approved by whom and according to what criteria.
>
> We do have enough access to our Web site (though not to our mailing list) to fix such unsettling messages.  I'll work on something more comforting.  I'm also working on a privacy policy which I'll post to the list (though any contributions there would be valued).
>
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From b.schombe at gmail.com  Wed Jan  5 06:16:07 2011
From: b.schombe at gmail.com (Baudouin SCHOMBE)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 12:16:07 +0100
Subject: [governance] some notes on the CSTD inter-sessional on 17th Dec
In-Reply-To: <4D243FE5.4050907@itforchange.net>
References: <4D243FE5.4050907@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTik68kqs3-d=byd5OpzSPmEOMJ01BagWy_PsbV0V@mail.gmail.com>

"One was Egypt's proposal of multistakeholder task forces around specific
sub-issues that would input their report/ recommendations to the WG proper
which was to be inter-gov. Second was Brazil's proposal of each meeting of
WG having speaker/ participants from stakeholder groups, leaving it to the
stakeholders to decide the speakers/ participants. (This later proposal has
the problem that only a continuous participation of the same non-gov
participants throughout the WG's life is really meaningful.)".


the proposals of Egypt has a certain logic in which it agrees in the
participation
of non-governmental actors, but while leaving flexibility to governments the
possibility of early decision on the recommendations. For Brazil, it is
given latitude to stakeholders to decide on the choice of speakers or
participants.
In both cases, this requires an ongoing involvement of non-governmental
participants in all meetings of the WG.
It would even be wise to think also a good geographical representation
of non-state
actors in Africa. All this provision also requires that local and sub
regional issues are discussed deeply in national and sub-regional IGF
platforms.
It is through this mechanism we can also know the members of
government and other
stakeholders who are competent, really active and controlling the process.
I am referring to the African participants in any sector. And I believe we
must also take into account the non gov actors who have remained constant,
present and active since the process of Phase 1 of the World Summit to this
stage.

" I think that overall it may not be too bad a deal we got. I would much
prefer that we now move on to discussing what substantive changes or
improvements we want to see in the IGF. If we get a good set of 5 people in,
we can use the civil society's greater readiness to come up with new ideas,
develop implementable details around them etc to make some really good
impact."

The figure 5 is not a chance I think. If not, we can think of geographical
representation is the 5 continents? Just a suggestion.


Baudouin

2011/1/5 parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>

>  Hi
>
> A happy new year to all!
>
> Since much has been lamented about what came out of the CSTD
> inter-sessional, let me start my notes by trying to give it a positive spin.
>
>
> My impression is that something very remarkable and perhaps unprecedented
> happened on the 17th in the CSTD inter-sessional meeting which is an
> important step forward in global governance (I have some misgivings too
> about 'this step' forward which I will discuss in another email). I may be
> wrong and those more well versed with UN system may correct me, but this may
> be the very first time that a 'substantive' UN  body,  with  political
> membership  and status and not just  an  expert  group,  will have  some
> specified non-gov permanent  'invited  participants'  who  'will remain
> engaged through-out the process'. Importantly, these participants are not
> just 'outside experts' but 'representatives' of groups other than states.
>
> To the extent that I think this is a big step, in the end, in some ways it
> may even be better that the WG group is not a Chair's WG, which would have
> meant an 'experts group' only giving advise which does not constitute a
> substantive UN body's report, but it is actually a CSTD WG, and thus based
> on political representation and not expertise alone. ( I may be reading too
> much into this, and would be happy for a discussion on this issue.)
>
> In any case, our (my organisation's) initial position was a WGIG kind of a
> group. (The WGIG model for the new WG on IGF improvements, incidentally, was
> opposed by many business and technical community members at Vilnius.) I have
> been a great fan of WGIG model and have suggested a few times that MAG
> should rather try to work more in that model than its typical abdicating
> mode when faced with substantive issues, which alone can make the IGF more
> productive. However there has been little engagement from the IGC to forward
> such a model within the IGF system. Anyway, this is just to affirm my
> support for the WGIG model.
>
> Much of the contestation during ther CSTD meeting, whose real substance and
> motives perhaps lie elsewhere, took place around whether the proposed WG was
> a Chair's WG or a CSTD WG. The former could be formed more or less in
> whichever manner the Chair decides, and would be an expert group advising
> the CSTD, after which the commission could decide to do what it liked in its
> substantive communication to ECOSOC and GA. A CSTD WG on the other hand will
> be  a political body with membership based on political status. The text of
> the UN GA resolution indeed had some amount of ambiguity about it being a
> experts group or an substantive CSTD WG.
>
> 18. Welcomes the decision by the Economic and Social Council in paragraph
> 30 of its resolution 2010/2 to invite the Chair of the Commission on Science
> and Technology for Development to establish, in an open and inclusive
> manner, a working group which would seek, compile and review inputs from all
> Member States and all other stakeholders on improvements to the Internet
> Governance Forum, in line with the mandate set out in the Tunis Agenda,4 and
> which would submit a report to the Commission at its fourteenth session, in
> 2011, with recommendations, as appropriate, that would constitute an input
> by the Commission to the General Assembly, through the Economic and Social
> Council;
>
> While it was the Chair who was invited to form a WG (which could be a
> Chair's WG or as well be a CSTD WG), the last part of the above para is
> significant in saying that the report of the WG will 'constitute an input by
> the Commission to the General Assembly, through the Economic and Social
> Council'. To me,  it really does look very unlikely that an expert group
> assembled by the chair could give a report which will be considered 'an
> input *by *the commission to the GA'.
>
> While I was still rooting for a WGIG model during the meeting, I could see
> that the developing countries group was clear - they were no way going to
> shift from their conviction that it was to be a CSTD WG. (Sure, it served
> their political objective too for it to be a CSTD WG. I dont say they were
> not pressing their politics here as were other actors who were present.)
> This dev countries group pointed to the description 'CSTD WG' that has been
> mentioned in all documents regarding various meetings etc on this issue,
> apart from their interpretation of the text.
>
> If it indeed was to be a substantive CSTD WG with political membership,
> their stand that non-gov participants cannot be equal and full members
> looked difficult to argue against (though I was still trying to argue that
> this is a very new context etc). That would be in violation of all rules and
> precedents, even perhaps of general political sensibilities.
>
> So either this group agreed that it was a Chair's expert group, which I
> realized was not going to happen, or we tried to find  what best could be
> done within the CSTD WG formula. Within this formula there were two options
> being proposed at this point.
>
> One was Egypt's proposal of multistakeholder task forces around specific
> sub-issues that would input their report/ recommendations to the WG proper
> which was to be inter-gov. Second was Brazil's proposal of each meeting of
> WG having speaker/ participants from stakeholder groups, leaving it to the
> stakeholders to decide the speakers/ participants. (This later proposal has
> the problem that only a continuous participation of the same non-gov
> participants throughout the WG's life is really meaningful.)
>
>  To proceed from what looked like a Chair's WG versus CSTD WG stalemate,
> seeing that dev countries were not going to move from their understanding of
> it being a CSTD WG, I proposed a new formula to one of the most active
> developing country participant - that of permanent 'invited participants'
> 'who will remain fully engaged throughout the process'. To me, this appeared
> the best we could get, and still a considerable step forward.
>
> The mentioned dev country rep then suggested the text 'The Chair invites
> the following stakeholders to participate in the Working Group....' which is
> 'the' key part of the agreed document now. I directly suggested to the chair
> to add the part 'will remain fully engaged throughout the process' which she
> graciously did. I thought this statement can be used to assure a fair amount
> of space and rights within the WG. Later, a developed country rep, pursuing
> a similar line of thought, asked for inclusion of the word 'interactively' -
> as in 'interactively participate'. This was very useful. What we were trying
> here was to get some text in to try and guarantee that once the WG is set
> up, more excluding norms may not evolve by practise.
>
> Pushing it further towards greater equality of status of non-gov
> participants, Anriette suggested  that the text be changed to 'chair invites
> to join' rather than participate. This text went up for a while but got
> removed later.
>
> I think that overall it may not be too bad a deal we got. I would much
> prefer that we now move on to discussing what substantive changes or
> improvements we want to see in the IGF. If we get a good set of 5 people in,
> we can use the civil society's greater readiness to come up with new ideas,
> develop implementable details around them etc to make some really good
> impact.
>
> We need to talk and collaborate with the business and technical community
> as we need to with gov reps for pushing what we want to see happen (and to
> figure that out is more important). However, developing any kind of grand
> alliance with a shrill anti dev country govs rhetoric  may not be the best
> thing to do now. Yes, our interests are shared vis a vis greater openness of
> processes, and we will need to huddle together every time new efforts get
> made to demote the level of participation of nongov stakeholders in the WG
> processes. But that is a tactical thing we have always been doing. We may
> have known convergences in a few substantive areas - like our opposition to
> moving the IGF secretariat to NY and the desire for keeping it independent
> etc.... However, there are also a large number of divergences in key areas
> where the idea may be to make IGF as a more valuable institution to be able
> to really contribute to global IG related policies. These areas may be the
> more important ones to focus on in terms of real IGF improvements.
>
> In this regard, apart from mentioning how the IGF should complement, and
> thus contribute to, the proposed process of enhanced cooperation which would
> directly deal with global Internet policy issues, the relevant part of the
> GA resolution also gives a significant pointer of the directions in which it
> would like to see improvements in the IGF .
>
> "....... while recognizing at the same time the need to improve it (IGF),
> with a view to linking it to the broader dialogue on global Internet
> governance".
>
> Parminder
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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>
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>
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From dg_cameron at bigpond.com  Wed Jan  5 06:23:03 2011
From: dg_cameron at bigpond.com (Don Cameron)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 22:23:03 +1100
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <E7AE539B-C840-4DA2-B308-23B191D342B3@ciroap.org>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org> <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com> <DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org> <7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org> <AE61F425-2008-436E-86FC-563B71C9D229@acm.org> <B64342CF-E90A-4FD7-9074-94F89E9CC420@ciroap.org> <958D4AE5-BCA1-46D9-9595-B23E8C6DB90F@acm.org> <DCF63951-4BAC-4440-A6D7-6CA015558E60@ciroap.org> <AANLkTimuxZ5+6zPL9CRGN_oXWasui_XK+v49phA9jf3v@mail.gmail.com> <001001cbac4c$701c83c0$50558b40$@com> <E7AE539B-C840-4DA2-B308-23B191D342B3@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <000901cbacca$eb3d5e70$c1b81b50$@com>

> Also I overlooked that many Internet old timers would prefer to maintain
the ability to subscribe by email (unsubscribing by email had not been
affected).  That change has since been reversed.

 

Thanks Jeremy,

 

I feel somewhat elevated in status... from a lurker to an Internet Old Timer
- might be worth mentioning my children also tend to sub to lists via
list-serv commands, although this is possibly my influence on them J

 

As with others I agree up to a point with the underlying premise of
simplifying list and web subscriptions providing it doesn't come at the
expense of access and/or simplicity (to either) - the point raised by Norbet
is salient not only for Cambodia, it also applies to the millions who
interact online with PDA's and mobiles where email is a much simpler medium
to use than trying to access a web site on a 2" screen. Unfortunately the
promoted/implemented changes do read like a fait accompli given the depths
of concern expressed by a number of people.

 

Pardon my ignorance - but I do not understand who authorised these changes -
isn't the decision-making process of this group one of lazy consensus ala
the FOSS/Apache model where changes are discussed prior to implementation?
Are all the changes now reversed? It would be great if we could rewind and
discuss the need and options - I'm sure there is an abundance of list
management expertise on here.

 

Don

 

 

 

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From jeremy at ciroap.org  Thu Jan  6 06:33:43 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2011 19:33:43 +0800
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <000901cbacca$eb3d5e70$c1b81b50$@com>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org>
	 <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com>
	 <DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org>
	 <7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org>
	 <AE61F425-2008-436E-86FC-563B71C9D229@acm.org>
	 <B64342CF-E90A-4FD7-9074-94F89E9CC420@ciroap.org>
	 <958D4AE5-BCA1-46D9-9595-B23E8C6DB90F@acm.org>
	 <DCF63951-4BAC-4440-A6D7-6CA015558E60@ciroap.org>
	 <AANLkTimuxZ5+6zPL9CRGN_oXWasui_XK+v49phA9jf3v@mail.gmail.com>
	 <001001cbac4c$701c83c0$50558b40$@com>
	 <E7AE539B-C840-4DA2-B308-23B191D342B3@ciroap.org>
	 <000901cbacca$eb3d5e70$c1b81b50$@com>
Message-ID: <1294313623.2420.3.camel@terminus-Aspire-L320>

On Wed, 2011-01-05 at 22:23 +1100, Don Cameron wrote:
> Pardon my ignorance - but I do not understand who authorised these
> changes – isn’t the decision-making process of this group one of lazy
> consensus ala the FOSS/Apache model where changes are discussed prior
> to implementation? Are all the changes now reversed? It would be great
> if we could rewind and discuss the need and options – I’m sure there
> is an abundance of list management expertise on here.

On policy decisions, of course.  For operational decisions about the Web
site and email list, not really.  (Of course it can be argued that
operational decisions are rarely devoid of policy implications;
something that the IGC has argued long and often in a broader context.)

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong Businesses, governments and
civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to
consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress Twitter #CICongress 
Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless
necessary. 

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From lmcknigh at syr.edu  Wed Jan  5 06:43:43 2011
From: lmcknigh at syr.edu (Lee W McKnight)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 06:43:43 -0500
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <000901cbacca$eb3d5e70$c1b81b50$@com>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org>
 <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com>
 <DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org>
 <7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org>
 <AE61F425-2008-436E-86FC-563B71C9D229@acm.org>
 <B64342CF-E90A-4FD7-9074-94F89E9CC420@ciroap.org>
 <958D4AE5-BCA1-46D9-9595-B23E8C6DB90F@acm.org>
 <DCF63951-4BAC-4440-A6D7-6CA015558E60@ciroap.org>
 <AANLkTimuxZ5+6zPL9CRGN_oXWasui_XK+v49phA9jf3v@mail.gmail.com>
 <001001cbac4c$701c83c0$50558b40$@com>
 <E7AE539B-C840-4DA2-B308-23B191D342B3@ciroap.org>,<000901cbacca$eb3d5e70$c1b81b50$@com>
Message-ID: <93F4C2F3D19A03439EAC16D47C591DDE033000702B@suex07-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu>

Don,

And thanks Jeremy. 

First, Don, your and my gray hair is showing if we speak of 'PDAs' - which is so 90s - I am sure you meant to say 'tablets' as on display in abundance at CES this week. But point take,n whatever the form factor for 'mobile Internet devices' as Intel tried to get us all to call them a couple years back, they remain bandwidth constrained. Anyway.

Second, there had been advance discussion and I would say consensus on the need for upgrading list maintenance and the website,  which Jeremy had discussed on the list and there was general acceptance to. If one checks the archives. So I believe it was only a question of Jeremy not wishing to disturb everyone's holidays with a flood of messages, as he went about the work, and not anything more than that. Right Jeremy? : )

anyway, thanks Jeremy for taking the time over the holidays

Lee
________________________________________
From: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org [governance-request at lists.cpsr.org] On Behalf Of Don Cameron [dg_cameron at bigpond.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 6:23 AM
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Jeremy Malcolm'
Subject: RE: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username

> Also I overlooked that many Internet old timers would prefer to maintain the ability to subscribe by email (unsubscribing by email had not been affected).  That change has since been reversed.

Thanks Jeremy,

I feel somewhat elevated in status... from a lurker to an Internet Old Timer - might be worth mentioning my children also tend to sub to lists via list-serv commands, although this is possibly my influence on them ☺

As with others I agree up to a point with the underlying premise of simplifying list and web subscriptions providing it doesn’t come at the expense of access and/or simplicity (to either) – the point raised by Norbet is salient not only for Cambodia, it also applies to the millions who interact online with PDA’s and mobiles where email is a much simpler medium to use than trying to access a web site on a 2” screen. Unfortunately the promoted/implemented changes do read like a fait accompli given the depths of concern expressed by a number of people.

Pardon my ignorance - but I do not understand who authorised these changes – isn’t the decision-making process of this group one of lazy consensus ala the FOSS/Apache model where changes are discussed prior to implementation? Are all the changes now reversed? It would be great if we could rewind and discuss the need and options – I’m sure there is an abundance of list management expertise on here.

Don



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From gpaque at gmail.com  Wed Jan  5 07:00:21 2011
From: gpaque at gmail.com (Ginger Paque)
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2011 07:30:21 -0430
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <93F4C2F3D19A03439EAC16D47C591DDE033000702B@suex07-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org> <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com> <DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org> <7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org> <AE61F425-2008-436E-86FC-563B71C9D229@acm.org> <B64342CF-E90A-4FD7-9074-94F89E9CC420@ciroap.org> <958D4AE5-BCA1-46D9-9595-B23E8C6DB90F@acm.org> <DCF63951-4BAC-4440-A6D7-6CA015558E60@ciroap.org> <AANLkTimuxZ5+6zPL9CRGN_oXWasui_XK+v49phA9jf3v@mail.gmail.com> <001001cbac4c$701c83c0$50558b40$@com> <E7AE539B-C840-4DA2-B308-23B191D342B3@ciroap.org>,<000901cbacca$eb3d5e70$c1b81b50$@com> <93F4C2F3D19A03439EAC16D47C591DDE033000702B@suex07-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <4D245D55.8060305@gmail.com>

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From dg_cameron at bigpond.com  Wed Jan  5 14:12:36 2011
From: dg_cameron at bigpond.com (Don Cameron)
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 06:12:36 +1100
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <93F4C2F3D19A03439EAC16D47C591DDE033000702B@suex07-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org> <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com> <DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org> <7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org> <AE61F425-2008-436E-86FC-563B71C9D229@acm.org> <B64342CF-E90A-4FD7-9074-94F89E9CC420@ciroap.org> <958D4AE5-BCA1-46D9-9595-B23E8C6DB90F@acm.org> <DCF63951-4BAC-4440-A6D7-6CA015558E60@ciroap.org> <AANLkTimuxZ5+6zPL9CRGN_oXWasui_XK+v49phA9jf3v@mail.gmail.com> <001001cbac4c$701c83c0$50558b40$@com> <E7AE539B-C840-4DA2-B308-23B191D342B3@ciroap.org>,<000901cbacca$eb3d5e70$c1b81b50$@com> <93F4C2F3D19A03439EAC16D47C591DDE033000702B@suex07-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <000701cbad0c$8386e660$8a94b320$@com>

> First, Don, your and my gray hair is showing if we speak of 'PDAs' - which is so 90s

Thanks Lee - I keyed an earlier response on my Blackberry PDA so perhaps the 90's is not quite as far off as we may think (tablets are way too bulky and annoying IMO :-)

To your second point - and in hope of continuing to move in a forward direction - perhaps the proposed changes were not clearly communicated and associated with the sort of list maintenance you refer to, or as widely understood as first thought? Given the validity of recent concerns I would think some revisitation should be considered (albeit dodging recent discussion inhibitors such as satisfying the needs of 'old timers' :-)

Don 


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From shailam at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  5 14:27:55 2011
From: shailam at yahoo.com (shaila mistry)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 11:27:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <184690.36829.qm@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Hi Jeremy
I have been a member of IGF for many years now, I have attended several IGF s 
and have been part of WSIS since its inception. However for the last two years I 
have not received the ballot to vote, in a timely manner. I did get the ballot 
last time after a little scramble but am uncertain if it was included.

 I too am a little concerned about the intent and direction of the changes. 
Having said this my concerns with the new format and criteria are as follows
	1. How do we recognize members like myself who have been long standing members. 
So if my vote was not included in the last elections, am I "reassigned" ? how do 
I have this corrected so I receive the ballot for the next election.
	2. Then there are others who also may be long standing members,but simply opt 
out of voting...does that diminish their status as members?
	3. Then there are serious but non participating members who are observers who 
also should be counted as member  .
	4.  Then there are the true" lurkers' whilst most of us would like to open up 
participation to all individuals who have genuine concern for our work, I admit 
that there is sometimes an uneasy feeling of wondering who is just lurking with 
a  purpose of some " ill doing" . 

So these categories of members raises some questions on what to put in place
	* Should we have some broad eligibility criteria ? 
	* Should we have some sort of periodical scribe - un-scribe process ?
	* Should we establish some " organizational' elements ?
	* Should we have members discussion forum...blog pages or something ?
I personally have followed most discussions with great interest and have found 
them to be very informative and thought provoking. Just havent always been able 
to squeeze in my two cents worth. I would like to be more active in this coming 
year and participate more as needed.
  
Warm regards to everyone and Happy New year to all !
 
Shaila Rao Mistry
President
Jayco Interface Technology 
Jayco MMI
Input Technology With A Human Touch
 
Vice President Public Policy
National Association On Women Buisness Owners
 
Next Generation Convenor 
International Federation on University Women
 
 
 



________________________________
From: Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org>
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
Sent: Sun, January 2, 2011 3:01:01 AM
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username


This is long, but important, so please read it.
Before the next poll or election is called, anyone who wishes to participate 
will have to have an account in the new database that I have created to record 
IGC membership.  All those who voted in the last election will also be entered 
into this database. 


We are doing this because, until now, there has been no proper IGC membership 
list, other than the list of subscribers to the governance mailing list (which 
contains many non-member lurkers, duplicate subscriptions and some defunct 
accounts).

The advantages of a maintaining a centralised database is that we can use a 
single list of members (and potential members) for purposes including:

	* mailing list subscription
	* editing content on the IGC Web site
	* determining eligibility to vote for coordination elections and charter 
amendments

Also, we will finally be able to associate names and (optionally) organisations 
with email addresses.  Our inability to do this in the past has been a problem 
for the coordinators.

I will be entering existing members into this database shortly, but I am first 
giving everyone the opportunity to create their own database entry so that they 
can choose their own username.  If you don't choose your own username, you will 
end up with a username like "john.doe".  The username won't be used on the 
mailing list, but will be associated with any content you may create on our Web 
site, and possibly for other purposes in the future.  

To create your own entry in the IGC membership database please visit this new 
page of our Web site:

http://www.igcaucus.org/user/register

When registering, please use the same email address with which you are 
subscribed to the governance list.  This is important because it will enable me 
to flag you as an official IGC member (ie. one who voted in the last coordinator 
elections), if indeed you are one.  (If not, please register anyway - especially 
if you intend to vote at the next coordinator elections.)

Visiting the page above is also the way, from now on, to subscribe to or 
unsubscribe from the governance mailing list.  (Unfortunately due to software 
limitations, your password for the mailing list Web site won't be automatically 
set to the one you choose when creating your database entry - you'll need to set 
it again when logging in there, or use any password you may have had there 
before.)

Existing subscribers to the governance mailing list who have not voted in the 
list election will not automatically be added to the database.  So, if you did 
not vote but are nonetheless an active participant, you should register yourself 
using the link above.  If you don't, your mailing list subscription won't be 
touched, but you won't have access to participate in polls or to add content to 
our Web site.

Thanks, and please let me know if you have any questions.  You have one month 
from now to create your own database entry if you wish, before I will create 
entries for all the missing members.

PS. Since this email is long enough already, I'll be writing separately about 
some of the other "phase 2" improvements to our Web site.

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599begin_of_the_skype_highlighting              +60 3 7726 
1599      end_of_the_skype_highlighting
Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups 
from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to 
consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.
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From ian.peter at ianpeter.com  Wed Jan  5 16:20:16 2011
From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter)
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2011 08:20:16 +1100
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <184690.36829.qm@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C94B2BC0.150B0%ian.peter@ianpeter.com>


Shaila raises some of the more interesting questions  around membership ­
and the most interesting of all if how anyone ceases to be a member. Quite
an important question, because charter amendments require a positive vote of
two thirds of ³members². - not just two thirds of participants in the vote.
Members certainly should include people who were members but didn¹t vote in
last elections, as Shaila points out. But members could then be construed to
include people who havent participated for years, because there is no way to
cease being a member even if you die currently.

These sorts of problems cant be solved technologically. Nor can the
administrative issues which surround a list which serves a dual purpose of
an open mailing list to discuss internet governance issues and also a forum
for decision making by the subset of mailing list members who would define
themselves as IGC members.

So it¹s not easy. However, I personally think that the series of technology
changes Jeremy had led over the last year or so have been great enhancements
which have made us more efficient. Its great to be able to vote on accepting
a position statement without flooding the mailing list with a hundred or so
YES messages ­ and its good to have surveys, wikis and other tools to help
us develop positions and discuss them. So, on the whole, I think the changes
which have been introduced have been well worthwhile, and it is great to
have a co ordinator such as Jeremy with the requisite technical skills to
advance our use of on line tools. None of our recent co ordinators have had
these skills, so Jeremy is making a great contriubution.

This has been improved and enhanced by the input of others on this list ­
the recent changes did need some tweaking, and may need more to meet all
needs.

But the concept is good IMHO, even if unable to solve all our problems.

Ian Peter



From: shaila mistry <shailam at yahoo.com>
Reply-To: <governance at lists.cpsr.org>, shaila mistry <shailam at yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 11:27:55 -0800 (PST)
To: Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org>
Cc: <governance at lists.cpsr.org>
Subject: Re: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username

Hi Jeremy
I have been a member of IGF for many years now, I have attended several IGF
s and have been part of WSIS since its inception. However for the last two
years I have not received the ballot to vote, in a timely manner. I did get
the ballot last time after a little scramble but am uncertain if it was
included.
 
 I too am a little concerned about the intent and direction of the changes.
Having said this my concerns with the new format and criteria are as follows
1. How do we recognize members like myself who have been long standing
members. So if my vote was not included in the last elections, am I
"reassigned" ? how do I have this corrected so I receive the ballot for the
next election. 
2. Then there are others who also may be long standing members,but simply
opt out of voting...does that diminish their status as members?
3. Then there are serious but non participating members who are observers
who also should be counted as member  .
4.  Then there are the true" lurkers' whilst most of us would like to open
up participation to all individuals who have genuine concern for our work, I
admit that there is sometimes an uneasy feeling of wondering who is just
lurking with a  purpose of some " ill doing" .
So these categories of members raises some questions on what to put in place
* Should we have some broad eligibility criteria ?
* Should we have some sort of periodical scribe - un-scribe process ?
* Should we establish some " organizational' elements ?
* Should we have members discussion forum...blog pages or something ?
I personally have followed most discussions with great interest and have
found them to be very informative and thought provoking. Just havent always
been able to squeeze in my two cents worth. I would like to be more active
in this coming year and participate more as needed.

  

Warm regards to everyone and Happy New year to all !

 
Shaila Rao Mistry
President
Jayco Interface Technology
Jayco MMI
Input Technology With A Human Touch
 
Vice President Public Policy
National Association On Women Buisness Owners
 
Next Generation Convenor
International Federation on University Women
 
 

 



From: Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org>
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
Sent: Sun, January 2, 2011 3:01:01 AM
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username

This is long, but important, so please read it.

Before the next poll or election is called, anyone who wishes to participate
will have to have an account in the new database that I have created to
record IGC membership.  All those who voted in the last election will also
be entered into this database.

We are doing this because, until now, there has been no proper IGC
membership list, other than the list of subscribers to the governance
mailing list (which contains many non-member lurkers, duplicate
subscriptions and some defunct accounts).

The advantages of a maintaining a centralised database is that we can use a
single list of members (and potential members) for purposes including:

* mailing list subscription
* editing content on the IGC Web site
* determining eligibility to vote for coordination elections and charter
amendments

Also, we will finally be able to associate names and (optionally)
organisations with email addresses.  Our inability to do this in the past
has been a problem for the coordinators.

I will be entering existing members into this database shortly, but I am
first giving everyone the opportunity to create their own database entry so
that they can choose their own username.  If you don't choose your own
username, you will end up with a username like "john.doe".  The username
won't be used on the mailing list, but will be associated with any content
you may create on our Web site, and possibly for other purposes in the
future.  

To create your own entry in the IGC membership database please visit this
new page of our Web site:

http://www.igcaucus.org/user/register

When registering, please use the same email address with which you are
subscribed to the governance list.  This is important because it will enable
me to flag you as an official IGC member (ie. one who voted in the last
coordinator elections), if indeed you are one.  (If not, please register
anyway - especially if you intend to vote at the next coordinator
elections.)

Visiting the page above is also the way, from now on, to subscribe to or
unsubscribe from the governance mailing list.  (Unfortunately due to
software limitations, your password for the mailing list Web site won't be
automatically set to the one you choose when creating your database entry -
you'll need to set it again when logging in there, or use any password you
may have had there before.)

Existing subscribers to the governance mailing list who have not voted in
the list election will not automatically be added to the database.  So, if
you did not vote but are nonetheless an active participant, you should
register yourself using the link above.  If you don't, your mailing list
subscription won't be touched, but you won't have access to participate in
polls or to add content to our Web site.

Thanks, and please let me know if you have any questions.  You have one
month from now to create your own database entry if you wish, before I will
create entries for all the missing members.

PS. Since this email is long enough already, I'll be writing separately
about some of the other "phase 2" improvements to our Web site.
-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting              +60 3 7726
1599      end_of_the_skype_highlighting

Empowering Tomorrow¹s Consumers
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer
groups from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to
consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
<http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress>
Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice
<http://www.consumersinternational.org/email-confidentiality> . Don't print
this email unless necessary.



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For all list information and functions, see:
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From avri at acm.org  Wed Jan  5 16:53:44 2011
From: avri at acm.org (Avri Doria)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 16:53:44 -0500
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <C94B2BC0.150B0%ian.peter@ianpeter.com>
References: <C94B2BC0.150B0%ian.peter@ianpeter.com>
Message-ID: <A47A765C-C948-4FE7-B126-BC1EFC983190@acm.org>

Hi,

Just for a point of confirmation, I had always assume that membership had to be confirmed annually by voting.  Kind of like paying due annually to be a members of other some other membership groups.  

the charter is explicit on this:

> The membership requirements for amending the charter are based on the most currently available voters list. In amending the charter, everyone who voted in the previous election will be deemed a member for amending the charter.


That is part of the reason for why elections should have a non of the above category, so someone can take the act of voting without needing to actually pick someone.  But this is not included in the charter and maybe it should be, though introducing it as a practice would not be contrary to anything i the charter.  I personally think all elections should have a 'non of the above' category.

In any case, I think including people as members who did not vote in the last election is a change that is not substantiated by the charter.


a.

On 5 Jan 2011, at 16:20, Ian Peter wrote:

> 
> Shaila raises some of the more interesting questions  around membership – and the most interesting of all if how anyone ceases to be a member. Quite an important question, because charter amendments require a positive vote of two thirds of “members”. - not just two thirds of participants in the vote.  Members certainly should include people who were members but didn’t vote in last elections, as Shaila points out. But members could then be construed to include people who havent participated for years, because there is no way to cease being a member even if you die currently.
> 
> These sorts of problems cant be solved technologically. Nor can the administrative issues which surround a list which serves a dual purpose of an open mailing list to discuss internet governance issues and also a forum for decision making by the subset of mailing list members who would define themselves as IGC members.
> 
> So it’s not easy. However, I personally think that the series of technology changes Jeremy had led over the last year or so have been great enhancements which have made us more efficient. Its great to be able to vote on accepting a position statement without flooding the mailing list with a hundred or so YES messages – and its good to have surveys, wikis and other tools to help us develop positions and discuss them. So, on the whole, I think the changes which have been introduced have been well worthwhile, and it is great to have a co ordinator such as Jeremy with the requisite technical skills to advance our use of on line tools. None of our recent co ordinators have had these skills, so Jeremy is making a great contriubution.
> 
> This has been improved and enhanced by the input of others on this list – the recent changes did need some tweaking, and may need more to meet all needs.
> 
> But the concept is good IMHO, even if unable to solve all our problems.
> 
> Ian Peter
> 
> 
> From: shaila mistry <shailam at yahoo.com>
> Reply-To: <governance at lists.cpsr.org>, shaila mistry <shailam at yahoo.com>
> Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 11:27:55 -0800 (PST)
> To: Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org>
> Cc: <governance at lists.cpsr.org>
> Subject: Re: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
> 
> Hi Jeremy
> I have been a member of IGF for many years now, I have attended several IGF s and have been part of WSIS since its inception. However for the last two years I have not received the ballot to vote, in a timely manner. I did get the ballot last time after a little scramble but am uncertain if it was included.
>  
>  I too am a little concerned about the intent and direction of the changes. Having said this my concerns with the new format and criteria are as follows
> 	• How do we recognize members like myself who have been long standing members. So if my vote was not included in the last elections, am I "reassigned" ? how do I have this corrected so I receive the ballot for the next election.
> 	• Then there are others who also may be long standing members,but simply opt out of voting...does that diminish their status as members?
> 	• Then there are serious but non participating members who are observers who also should be counted as member  .
> 	• Then there are the true" lurkers' whilst most of us would like to open up participation to all individuals who have genuine concern for our work, I admit that there is sometimes an uneasy feeling of wondering who is just lurking with a  purpose of some " ill doing" . 
> So these categories of members raises some questions on what to put in place
> 	• Should we have some broad eligibility criteria ?
> 	• Should we have some sort of periodical scribe - un-scribe process ?
> 	• Should we establish some " organizational' elements ?
> 	• Should we have members discussion forum...blog pages or something ?
> I personally have followed most discussions with great interest and have found them to be very informative and thought provoking. Just havent always been able to squeeze in my two cents worth. I would like to be more active in this coming year and participate more as needed.
> 
>   
> 
> Warm regards to everyone and Happy New year to all !
> 
>  
> Shaila Rao Mistry
> President
> Jayco Interface Technology 
> Jayco MMI
> Input Technology With A Human Touch
> 
> Vice President Public Policy
> National Association On Women Buisness Owners
> 
> Next Generation Convenor 
> International Federation on University Women
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 
> From: Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org>
> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
> Sent: Sun, January 2, 2011 3:01:01 AM
> Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
> 
> This is long, but important, so please read it.
> 
> Before the next poll or election is called, anyone who wishes to participate will have to have an account in the new database that I have created to record IGC membership.  All those who voted in the last election will also be entered into this database. 
> 
> We are doing this because, until now, there has been no proper IGC membership list, other than the list of subscribers to the governance mailing list (which contains many non-member lurkers, duplicate subscriptions and some defunct accounts).
> 
> The advantages of a maintaining a centralised database is that we can use a single list of members (and potential members) for purposes including:
> 
> 	• mailing list subscription
> 	• editing content on the IGC Web site
> 	• determining eligibility to vote for coordination elections and charter amendments
> 
> Also, we will finally be able to associate names and (optionally) organisations with email addresses.  Our inability to do this in the past has been a problem for the coordinators.
> 
> I will be entering existing members into this database shortly, but I am first giving everyone the opportunity to create their own database entry so that they can choose their own username.  If you don't choose your own username, you will end up with a username like "john.doe".  The username won't be used on the mailing list, but will be associated with any content you may create on our Web site, and possibly for other purposes in the future.  
> 
> To create your own entry in the IGC membership database please visit this new page of our Web site:
> 
> http://www.igcaucus.org/user/register
> 
> When registering, please use the same email address with which you are subscribed to the governance list.  This is important because it will enable me to flag you as an official IGC member (ie. one who voted in the last coordinator elections), if indeed you are one.  (If not, please register anyway - especially if you intend to vote at the next coordinator elections.)
> 
> Visiting the page above is also the way, from now on, to subscribe to or unsubscribe from the governance mailing list.  (Unfortunately due to software limitations, your password for the mailing list Web site won't be automatically set to the one you choose when creating your database entry - you'll need to set it again when logging in there, or use any password you may have had there before.)
> 
> Existing subscribers to the governance mailing list who have not voted in the list election will not automatically be added to the database.  So, if you did not vote but are nonetheless an active participant, you should register yourself using the link above.  If you don't, your mailing list subscription won't be touched, but you won't have access to participate in polls or to add content to our Web site.
> 
> Thanks, and please let me know if you have any questions.  You have one month from now to create your own database entry if you wish, before I will create entries for all the missing members.
> 
> PS. Since this email is long enough already, I'll be writing separately about some of the other "phase 2" improvements to our Web site.
> -- 
> Jeremy Malcolm
> Project Coordinator
> Consumers International
> Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
> Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
> Tel: +60 3 7726 1599 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting              +60 3 7726 1599      end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> 
> Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
> CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
> Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
> for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
> http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress <http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress> 
> Twitter #CICongress
> 
> Read our email confidentiality notice <http://www.consumersinternational.org/email-confidentiality> . Don't print this email unless necessary.
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> 
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> To edit your profile and for other IGC information, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> 
> For all list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> To edit your profile and for other IGC information, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

For all list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
To edit your profile and for other IGC information, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


From ian.peter at ianpeter.com  Wed Jan  5 17:11:46 2011
From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter)
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2011 09:11:46 +1100
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <A47A765C-C948-4FE7-B126-BC1EFC983190@acm.org>
Message-ID: <C94B37D2.150B7%ian.peter@ianpeter.com>

Hi Avri,

What you suggest is probably the most convenient way to determine
membership. However, it does mean that if you miss voting you are no longer
a member. If everyone is happy with that, a lot of problems are solved.



> From: Avri <avri at acm.org>
> Reply-To: <governance at lists.cpsr.org>, Avri <avri at acm.org>
> Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 16:53:44 -0500
> To: IGC <governance at lists.cpsr.org>
> Subject: Re: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Just for a point of confirmation, I had always assume that membership had to
> be confirmed annually by voting.  Kind of like paying due annually to be a
> members of other some other membership groups.
> 
> the charter is explicit on this:
> 
>> The membership requirements for amending the charter are based on the most
>> currently available voters list. In amending the charter, everyone who voted
>> in the previous election will be deemed a member for amending the charter.
> 
> 
> That is part of the reason for why elections should have a non of the above
> category, so someone can take the act of voting without needing to actually
> pick someone.  But this is not included in the charter and maybe it should be,
> though introducing it as a practice would not be contrary to anything i the
> charter.  I personally think all elections should have a 'non of the above'
> category.
> 
> In any case, I think including people as members who did not vote in the last
> election is a change that is not substantiated by the charter.
> 
> 
> a.
> 
> On 5 Jan 2011, at 16:20, Ian Peter wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Shaila raises some of the more interesting questions  around membership ­ and
>> the most interesting of all if how anyone ceases to be a member. Quite an
>> important question, because charter amendments require a positive vote of two
>> thirds of ³members². - not just two thirds of participants in the vote.
>> Members certainly should include people who were members but didn¹t vote in
>> last elections, as Shaila points out. But members could then be construed to
>> include people who havent participated for years, because there is no way to
>> cease being a member even if you die currently.
>> 
>> These sorts of problems cant be solved technologically. Nor can the
>> administrative issues which surround a list which serves a dual purpose of an
>> open mailing list to discuss internet governance issues and also a forum for
>> decision making by the subset of mailing list members who would define
>> themselves as IGC members.
>> 
>> So it¹s not easy. However, I personally think that the series of technology
>> changes Jeremy had led over the last year or so have been great enhancements
>> which have made us more efficient. Its great to be able to vote on accepting
>> a position statement without flooding the mailing list with a hundred or so
>> YES messages ­ and its good to have surveys, wikis and other tools to help us
>> develop positions and discuss them. So, on the whole, I think the changes
>> which have been introduced have been well worthwhile, and it is great to have
>> a co ordinator such as Jeremy with the requisite technical skills to advance
>> our use of on line tools. None of our recent co ordinators have had these
>> skills, so Jeremy is making a great contriubution.
>> 
>> This has been improved and enhanced by the input of others on this list ­ the
>> recent changes did need some tweaking, and may need more to meet all needs.
>> 
>> But the concept is good IMHO, even if unable to solve all our problems.
>> 
>> Ian Peter
>> 
>> 
>> From: shaila mistry <shailam at yahoo.com>
>> Reply-To: <governance at lists.cpsr.org>, shaila mistry <shailam at yahoo.com>
>> Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 11:27:55 -0800 (PST)
>> To: Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org>
>> Cc: <governance at lists.cpsr.org>
>> Subject: Re: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
>> 
>> Hi Jeremy
>> I have been a member of IGF for many years now, I have attended several IGF s
>> and have been part of WSIS since its inception. However for the last two
>> years I have not received the ballot to vote, in a timely manner. I did get
>> the ballot last time after a little scramble but am uncertain if it was
>> included.
>>  
>>  I too am a little concerned about the intent and direction of the changes.
>> Having said this my concerns with the new format and criteria are as follows
>> € How do we recognize members like myself who have been long standing
>> members. So if my vote was not included in the last elections, am I
>> "reassigned" ? how do I have this corrected so I receive the ballot for the
>> next election.
>> € Then there are others who also may be long standing members,but simply opt
>> out of voting...does that diminish their status as members?
>> € Then there are serious but non participating members who are observers who
>> also should be counted as member  .
>> € Then there are the true" lurkers' whilst most of us would like to open up
>> participation to all individuals who have genuine concern for our work, I
>> admit that there is sometimes an uneasy feeling of wondering who is just
>> lurking with a  purpose of some " ill doing" .
>> So these categories of members raises some questions on what to put in place
>> € Should we have some broad eligibility criteria ?
>> € Should we have some sort of periodical scribe - un-scribe process ?
>> € Should we establish some " organizational' elements ?
>> € Should we have members discussion forum...blog pages or something ?
>> I personally have followed most discussions with great interest and have
>> found them to be very informative and thought provoking. Just havent always
>> been able to squeeze in my two cents worth. I would like to be more active in
>> this coming year and participate more as needed.
>> 
>>   
>> 
>> Warm regards to everyone and Happy New year to all !
>> 
>>  
>> Shaila Rao Mistry
>> President
>> Jayco Interface Technology
>> Jayco MMI
>> Input Technology With A Human Touch
>> 
>> Vice President Public Policy
>> National Association On Women Buisness Owners
>> 
>> Next Generation Convenor
>> International Federation on University Women
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> From: Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org>
>> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> Sent: Sun, January 2, 2011 3:01:01 AM
>> Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
>> 
>> This is long, but important, so please read it.
>> 
>> Before the next poll or election is called, anyone who wishes to participate
>> will have to have an account in the new database that I have created to
>> record IGC membership.  All those who voted in the last election will also be
>> entered into this database.
>> 
>> We are doing this because, until now, there has been no proper IGC membership
>> list, other than the list of subscribers to the governance mailing list
>> (which contains many non-member lurkers, duplicate subscriptions and some
>> defunct accounts).
>> 
>> The advantages of a maintaining a centralised database is that we can use a
>> single list of members (and potential members) for purposes including:
>> 
>> € mailing list subscription
>> € editing content on the IGC Web site
>> € determining eligibility to vote for coordination elections and charter
>> amendments
>> 
>> Also, we will finally be able to associate names and (optionally)
>> organisations with email addresses.  Our inability to do this in the past has
>> been a problem for the coordinators.
>> 
>> I will be entering existing members into this database shortly, but I am
>> first giving everyone the opportunity to create their own database entry so
>> that they can choose their own username.  If you don't choose your own
>> username, you will end up with a username like "john.doe".  The username
>> won't be used on the mailing list, but will be associated with any content
>> you may create on our Web site, and possibly for other purposes in the
>> future.  
>> 
>> To create your own entry in the IGC membership database please visit this new
>> page of our Web site:
>> 
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/user/register
>> 
>> When registering, please use the same email address with which you are
>> subscribed to the governance list.  This is important because it will enable
>> me to flag you as an official IGC member (ie. one who voted in the last
>> coordinator elections), if indeed you are one.  (If not, please register
>> anyway - especially if you intend to vote at the next coordinator elections.)
>> 
>> Visiting the page above is also the way, from now on, to subscribe to or
>> unsubscribe from the governance mailing list.  (Unfortunately due to software
>> limitations, your password for the mailing list Web site won't be
>> automatically set to the one you choose when creating your database entry -
>> you'll need to set it again when logging in there, or use any password you
>> may have had there before.)
>> 
>> Existing subscribers to the governance mailing list who have not voted in the
>> list election will not automatically be added to the database.  So, if you
>> did not vote but are nonetheless an active participant, you should register
>> yourself using the link above.  If you don't, your mailing list subscription
>> won't be touched, but you won't have access to participate in polls or to add
>> content to our Web site.
>> 
>> Thanks, and please let me know if you have any questions.  You have one month
>> from now to create your own database entry if you wish, before I will create
>> entries for all the missing members.
>> 
>> PS. Since this email is long enough already, I'll be writing separately about
>> some of the other "phase 2" improvements to our Web site.
>> -- 
>> Jeremy Malcolm
>> Project Coordinator
>> Consumers International
>> Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
>> Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
>> Malaysia
>> Tel: +60 3 7726 1599 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting              +60 3 7726
>> 1599      end_of_the_skype_highlighting
>> 
>> Empowering Tomorrow¹s Consumers
>> CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
>> Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups
>> from around the world
>> for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to
>> consumers. Register now!
>> http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
>> <http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress>
>> Twitter #CICongress
>> 
>> Read our email confidentiality notice
>> <http://www.consumersinternational.org/email-confidentiality> . Don't print
>> this email unless necessary.
>> 
>> 
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>> 
>> For all list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and for other IGC information, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> 
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>>     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>> 
>> For all list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and for other IGC information, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> 
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> 
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> To edit your profile and for other IGC information, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

For all list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
To edit your profile and for other IGC information, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


From avri at acm.org  Wed Jan  5 17:34:44 2011
From: avri at acm.org (Avri Doria)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 17:34:44 -0500
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
 (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1101051729330.20999@localhost.localdomain>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1101051729330.20999@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <515F563E-0ED7-475E-8C0E-F81F18F68657@acm.org>

hi,

by staying on the list and  voting the next year.

a.

On 5 Jan 2011, at 17:29, Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law wrote:

> how does one rejoin, then?
> 
> -- 
> A. Michael Froomkin, http://www.law.tm Blog: http://www.discourse.net
> Laurie Silvers & Mitchell Rubenstein Distinguished Professor of Law
> Coordinator of Faculty Research
> Editor, Jotwell: The Journal of Things We Like (Lots),  jotwell.com
> U. Miami School of Law, P.O. Box 248087, Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA
> +1 (305) 284-4285  |    +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax)  |  froomkin at law.tm
>                      -->It's cool here.<--
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 17:11:46
> From: Ian Peter <ian.peter at ianpeter.com>
> Reply-To: governance at lists.cpsr.org, Ian Peter <ian.peter at ianpeter.com>
> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org, Avri <avri at acm.org>
> Subject: Re: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
> 
> Hi Avri,
> 
> What you suggest is probably the most convenient way to determine
> membership. However, it does mean that if you miss voting you are no longer
> a member. If everyone is happy with that, a lot of problems are solved.
> 
> 
> 
>> From: Avri <avri at acm.org>
>> Reply-To: <governance at lists.cpsr.org>, Avri <avri at acm.org>
>> Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 16:53:44 -0500
>> To: IGC <governance at lists.cpsr.org>
>> Subject: Re: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Just for a point of confirmation, I had always assume that membership had to
>> be confirmed annually by voting.  Kind of like paying due annually to be a
>> members of other some other membership groups.
>> 
>> the charter is explicit on this:
>> 
>>> The membership requirements for amending the charter are based on the most
>>> currently available voters list. In amending the charter, everyone who voted
>>> in the previous election will be deemed a member for amending the charter.
>> 
>> 
>> That is part of the reason for why elections should have a non of the above
>> category, so someone can take the act of voting without needing to actually
>> pick someone.  But this is not included in the charter and maybe it should be,
>> though introducing it as a practice would not be contrary to anything i the
>> charter.  I personally think all elections should have a 'non of the above'
>> category.
>> 
>> In any case, I think including people as members who did not vote in the last
>> election is a change that is not substantiated by the charter.
>> 
>> 
>> a.
>> 
>> On 5 Jan 2011, at 16:20, Ian Peter wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> Shaila raises some of the more interesting questions  around membership  and
>>> the most interesting of all if how anyone ceases to be a member. Quite an
>>> important question, because charter amendments require a positive vote of two
>>> thirds of ³members². - not just two thirds of participants in the vote.
>>> Members certainly should include people who were members but didn¹t vote in
>>> last elections, as Shaila points out. But members could then be construed to
>>> include people who havent participated for years, because there is no way to
>>> cease being a member even if you die currently.
>>> 
>>> These sorts of problems cant be solved technologically. Nor can the
>>> administrative issues which surround a list which serves a dual purpose of an
>>> open mailing list to discuss internet governance issues and also a forum for
>>> decision making by the subset of mailing list members who would define
>>> themselves as IGC members.
>>> 
>>> So it¹s not easy. However, I personally think that the series of technology
>>> changes Jeremy had led over the last year or so have been great enhancements
>>> which have made us more efficient. Its great to be able to vote on accepting
>>> a position statement without flooding the mailing list with a hundred or so
>>> YES messages  and its good to have surveys, wikis and other tools to help us
>>> develop positions and discuss them. So, on the whole, I think the changes
>>> which have been introduced have been well worthwhile, and it is great to have
>>> a co ordinator such as Jeremy with the requisite technical skills to advance
>>> our use of on line tools. None of our recent co ordinators have had these
>>> skills, so Jeremy is making a great contriubution.
>>> 
>>> This has been improved and enhanced by the input of others on this list  the
>>> recent changes did need some tweaking, and may need more to meet all needs.
>>> 
>>> But the concept is good IMHO, even if unable to solve all our problems.
>>> 
>>> Ian Peter
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: shaila mistry <shailam at yahoo.com>
>>> Reply-To: <governance at lists.cpsr.org>, shaila mistry <shailam at yahoo.com>
>>> Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 11:27:55 -0800 (PST)
>>> To: Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org>
>>> Cc: <governance at lists.cpsr.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
>>> 
>>> Hi Jeremy
>>> I have been a member of IGF for many years now, I have attended several IGF s
>>> and have been part of WSIS since its inception. However for the last two
>>> years I have not received the ballot to vote, in a timely manner. I did get
>>> the ballot last time after a little scramble but am uncertain if it was
>>> included.
>>> 
>>> I too am a little concerned about the intent and direction of the changes.
>>> Having said this my concerns with the new format and criteria are as follows
>>> ? How do we recognize members like myself who have been long standing
>>> members. So if my vote was not included in the last elections, am I
>>> "reassigned" ? how do I have this corrected so I receive the ballot for the
>>> next election.
>>> ? Then there are others who also may be long standing members,but simply opt
>>> out of voting...does that diminish their status as members?
>>> ? Then there are serious but non participating members who are observers who
>>> also should be counted as member  .
>>> ? Then there are the true" lurkers' whilst most of us would like to open up
>>> participation to all individuals who have genuine concern for our work, I
>>> admit that there is sometimes an uneasy feeling of wondering who is just
>>> lurking with a  purpose of some " ill doing" .
>>> So these categories of members raises some questions on what to put in place
>>> ? Should we have some broad eligibility criteria ?
>>> ? Should we have some sort of periodical scribe - un-scribe process ?
>>> ? Should we establish some " organizational' elements ?
>>> ? Should we have members discussion forum...blog pages or something ?
>>> I personally have followed most discussions with great interest and have
>>> found them to be very informative and thought provoking. Just havent always
>>> been able to squeeze in my two cents worth. I would like to be more active in
>>> this coming year and participate more as needed.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Warm regards to everyone and Happy New year to all !
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Shaila Rao Mistry
>>> President
>>> Jayco Interface Technology
>>> Jayco MMI
>>> Input Technology With A Human Touch
>>> 
>>> Vice President Public Policy
>>> National Association On Women Buisness Owners
>>> 
>>> Next Generation Convenor
>>> International Federation on University Women
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org>
>>> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
>>> Sent: Sun, January 2, 2011 3:01:01 AM
>>> Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
>>> 
>>> This is long, but important, so please read it.
>>> 
>>> Before the next poll or election is called, anyone who wishes to participate
>>> will have to have an account in the new database that I have created to
>>> record IGC membership.  All those who voted in the last election will also be
>>> entered into this database.
>>> 
>>> We are doing this because, until now, there has been no proper IGC membership
>>> list, other than the list of subscribers to the governance mailing list
>>> (which contains many non-member lurkers, duplicate subscriptions and some
>>> defunct accounts).
>>> 
>>> The advantages of a maintaining a centralised database is that we can use a
>>> single list of members (and potential members) for purposes including:
>>> 
>>> ? mailing list subscription
>>> ? editing content on the IGC Web site
>>> ? determining eligibility to vote for coordination elections and charter
>>> amendments
>>> 
>>> Also, we will finally be able to associate names and (optionally)
>>> organisations with email addresses.  Our inability to do this in the past has
>>> been a problem for the coordinators.
>>> 
>>> I will be entering existing members into this database shortly, but I am
>>> first giving everyone the opportunity to create their own database entry so
>>> that they can choose their own username.  If you don't choose your own
>>> username, you will end up with a username like "john.doe".  The username
>>> won't be used on the mailing list, but will be associated with any content
>>> you may create on our Web site, and possibly for other purposes in the
>>> future.
>>> 
>>> To create your own entry in the IGC membership database please visit this new
>>> page of our Web site:
>>> 
>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/user/register
>>> 
>>> When registering, please use the same email address with which you are
>>> subscribed to the governance list.  This is important because it will enable
>>> me to flag you as an official IGC member (ie. one who voted in the last
>>> coordinator elections), if indeed you are one.  (If not, please register
>>> anyway - especially if you intend to vote at the next coordinator elections.)
>>> 
>>> Visiting the page above is also the way, from now on, to subscribe to or
>>> unsubscribe from the governance mailing list.  (Unfortunately due to software
>>> limitations, your password for the mailing list Web site won't be
>>> automatically set to the one you choose when creating your database entry -
>>> you'll need to set it again when logging in there, or use any password you
>>> may have had there before.)
>>> 
>>> Existing subscribers to the governance mailing list who have not voted in the
>>> list election will not automatically be added to the database.  So, if you
>>> did not vote but are nonetheless an active participant, you should register
>>> yourself using the link above.  If you don't, your mailing list subscription
>>> won't be touched, but you won't have access to participate in polls or to add
>>> content to our Web site.
>>> 
>>> Thanks, and please let me know if you have any questions.  You have one month
>>> from now to create your own database entry if you wish, before I will create
>>> entries for all the missing members.
>>> 
>>> PS. Since this email is long enough already, I'll be writing separately about
>>> some of the other "phase 2" improvements to our Web site.
>>> --
>>> Jeremy Malcolm
>>> Project Coordinator
>>> Consumers International
>>> Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
>>> Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
>>> Malaysia
>>> Tel: +60 3 7726 1599 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting              +60 3 7726
>>> 1599      end_of_the_skype_highlighting
>>> 
>>> Empowering Tomorrow¹s Consumers
>>> CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
>>> Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups
>>> from around the world
>>> for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to
>>> consumers. Register now!
>>> http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
>>> <http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress>
>>> Twitter #CICongress
>>> 
>>> Read our email confidentiality notice
>>> <http://www.consumersinternational.org/email-confidentiality> . Don't print
>>> this email unless necessary.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>    governance at lists.cpsr.org
>>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>>>    governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>>> 
>>> For all list information and functions, see:
>>>    http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and for other IGC information, see:
>>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>> 
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>   governance at lists.cpsr.org
>>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>>>   governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>>> 
>>> For all list information and functions, see:
>>>   http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and for other IGC information, see:
>>>   http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>> 
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> 
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>    governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>>    governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>> 
>> For all list information and functions, see:
>>    http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and for other IGC information, see:
>>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> 
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>    governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>    governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> 
> For all list information and functions, see:
>    http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
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>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

____________________________________________________________
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From jeremy at ciroap.org  Thu Jan  6 01:45:39 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2011 14:45:39 +0800
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <A47A765C-C948-4FE7-B126-BC1EFC983190@acm.org>
References: <C94B2BC0.150B0%ian.peter@ianpeter.com>
	 <A47A765C-C948-4FE7-B126-BC1EFC983190@acm.org>
Message-ID: <1294296339.1705.5.camel@terminus-Aspire-L320>

On Wed, 2011-01-05 at 16:53 -0500, Avri Doria wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Just for a point of confirmation, I had always assume that membership had to be confirmed annually by voting.  Kind of like paying due annually to be a members of other some other membership groups.  
> 
> the charter is explicit on this:
> 
> > The membership requirements for amending the charter are based on the most currently available voters list. In amending the charter, everyone who voted in the previous election will be deemed a member for amending the charter.

Whilst I agree with you Avri, and have been operating under that
interpretation, I don't think the charter is as clear as it needs to be.
The provision that you refer to states that one is deemed to be a member
*for the purpose of amending the charter* only if one confirmed one's
membership at the last election.  However there is an earlier provision
of the charter that is much broader, saying simply that "The members of
the IGC are individuals, acting in personal capacity, who subscribe to
the charter of the caucus."  So it can be argued that the narrower
definition of membership only applies to charter amendments.  We do need
to get the charter reviewed to clarify this...

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong Businesses, governments and
civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to
consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress Twitter #CICongress 
Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless
necessary. 

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

For all list information and functions, see:
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From iza at anr.org  Thu Jan  6 19:43:12 2011
From: iza at anr.org (Izumi AIZU)
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 09:43:12 +0900
Subject: [governance] Fwd: Contributions to the outcomes on the discussions
 on CSTD priority themes
In-Reply-To: <OFCC72707A.B8F36D58-ONC1257802.0056ED04-C1257802.00581154@unog.un.org>
References: <OFCC72707A.B8F36D58-ONC1257802.0056ED04-C1257802.00581154@unog.un.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=_eJDtzjTpSAtoUR5nWzJz+8Tw0Hf0AVvnoo-v@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list,

I just found this request - buried in my mailbox - from CSTD secretariat,
missing almost two weeks and the deadline is Jan 15. So sorry about
that.

Is there any volunteer to prepare draft for our submission?
That will help.

many thanks,

izumi


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Mongi Hamdi <Mongi.Hamdi at unctad.org>
Date: 2010/12/24
Subject: Contributions to the outcomes on the discussions on CSTD
priority themes


Dear colleagues and participants,

First of all, allow me to thank you for your participation in the
inter-sessional panel of the Commission on Science and Technology for
Development (CSTD) which took place 15-17 December 2010.

I would like to remind you to please send us the "main findings and
recommendations" on the priority themes of the CSTD before 15 January
2011, for us to include them for discussion at the 14th session of the
CSTD, which will take place in May 2011.

These priority themes are:

-Technologies to address challenges in areas such as agriculture and water
-Measuring the impact of information and communications technologies
for development

In this connection, I am attaching the issues papers which the
Secretariat has prepared for this Panel for reference.

I look forward to hearing from you soon and wishing you a very happy
holidays and a prosperous new year.

Mongi Hamdi

*********************************************
Mongi Hamdi
Head, Science, Technology and ICT Branch/DTL
United Nations Conference on Trade and Development
Head of the Secretariat of the United Nations Commission
on Science and Technology for Development
Palais des Nations
Room E-7077
Geneva, Switzerland
Tel. 004122 917 5069
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

For all list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
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From roland at internetpolicyagency.com  Fri Jan  7 03:32:20 2011
From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry)
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 08:32:20 +0000
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <1294313623.2420.3.camel@terminus-Aspire-L320>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org>
 <bu2t$gOT5IINFAe4@internetpolicyagency.com>
 <DBB9FBD3-EBEB-45B8-8F92-FA69ECF58C29@ciroap.org>
 <7E3C4EF7-00CE-4312-A890-5D9BDAE010B8@ciroap.org>
 <AE61F425-2008-436E-86FC-563B71C9D229@acm.org>
 <B64342CF-E90A-4FD7-9074-94F89E9CC420@ciroap.org>
 <958D4AE5-BCA1-46D9-9595-B23E8C6DB90F@acm.org>
 <DCF63951-4BAC-4440-A6D7-6CA015558E60@ciroap.org>
 <AANLkTimuxZ5+6zPL9CRGN_oXWasui_XK+v49phA9jf3v@mail.gmail.com>
 <001001cbac4c$701c83c0$50558b40$@com>
 <E7AE539B-C840-4DA2-B308-23B191D342B3@ciroap.org>
 <000901cbacca$eb3d5e70$c1b81b50$@com>
 <1294313623.2420.3.camel@terminus-Aspire-L320>
Message-ID: <x7W36UIU+sJNFAzh@internetpolicyagency.com>

In message <1294313623.2420.3.camel at terminus-Aspire-L320>, at 19:33:43 
on Thu, 6 Jan 2011, Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org> writes

>Of course it can be argued that operational decisions are rarely devoid 
>of policy implications; something that the IGC has argued long and 
>often in a broader context.

Operational decisions should be rigorously based on published policy, 
preferably agreed by the community.

But I suspect you are referring to Public Policy, which is something 
else.

As an "old timer" [my hands-on operational Internet experience dates 
back only to 1995, but I've been running online forums since 1984] I'll 
always ask that things are done 'properly'.

We can discuss what that means, when the seemingly inevitable new 
charter/policy discussion starts!
-- 
Roland Perry
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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From charityg at diplomacy.edu  Fri Jan  7 10:10:10 2011
From: charityg at diplomacy.edu (Charity Gamboa)
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 09:10:10 -0600
Subject: [governance] 2011 Philippine IPv6 Conference and Training
In-Reply-To: <18A758A4C634483F9037DA359604993F@SATELLITE>
References: <18A758A4C634483F9037DA359604993F@SATELLITE>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin7QZ5j+0j1Kr5qh=1aDSSkhHvvdEW-uV8+mFb-@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

Sorry for cross-posting but I would like to forward this invitation to
anyone interested to join ISOC PH for the 2011 Philippine IPv6 Conference
and Training this coming 24-27 of January 2011 at Shangri-la Hotel, Ayala,
Makati City, Philippines. More information on the training can be accessed
here:

http://ipv6.isoc.ph/

Thank you!

Kind regards,
Charity Gamboa-Embley
ISOC PH

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Rodel Urani <rodel.urani at strategict.pro>
Date: Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 12:20 AM
Subject: 2011 Philippine IPv6 Conference and Training
To: Rodel Urani <rodel.urani at strategict.pro>


   Dear All,

A prosperous 2011 to you and family!

I would like to personally invite you to join the 2011 Philippine Internet
Protocol version 6 (IPv6) Conference and Training to be held on 24-27
January 2011 at the Shangri-la Hotel, Ayala, Makati City.

Please visit this site <http://ipv6.isoc.ph/> for more details. Reserve your
seat now.

You may forward this email to those you know who may be interested attending
the event.

Thank you.

Kindest regards,
-Rodel

__________________________________________________
Rodel Urani
+63.2.215.8861

_______________________________________________
FOUNDING mailing list
FOUNDING at ISOC.PH
http://box325.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/founding_isoc.ph
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From lmcknigh at syr.edu  Fri Jan  7 15:24:10 2011
From: lmcknigh at syr.edu (Lee W McKnight)
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 15:24:10 -0500
Subject: [governance] Fwd: Contributions to the outcomes on the
 discussions on CSTD priority themes
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=_eJDtzjTpSAtoUR5nWzJz+8Tw0Hf0AVvnoo-v@mail.gmail.com>
References: <OFCC72707A.B8F36D58-ONC1257802.0056ED04-C1257802.00581154@unog.un.org>,<AANLkTi=_eJDtzjTpSAtoUR5nWzJz+8Tw0Hf0AVvnoo-v@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <93F4C2F3D19A03439EAC16D47C591DDE0330007053@suex07-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu>

Izumi,

I shouldn't volunteer anything a week before classes start. 

I did take a quick glance at the docs, and 2 out of 3 I at least have an opinion on, while water...I appreciate daily. But have no further comment on.

So what are they asking for - a couple lines or paragraphs commentary on the reports concluding "issues for consideration"  fed back to them as IGC's "main findings and recommendations" or something more elaborate? Because if it's elaborate they want and we need igc consensus on but  have nothing to start with and it is due in  a week...I have no further comment.

Lee
________________________________________
From: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org [governance-request at lists.cpsr.org] On Behalf Of Izumi AIZU [iza at anr.org]
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 7:43 PM
To: Governance List
Subject: [governance] Fwd: Contributions to the outcomes on the discussions on CSTD priority themes

Dear list,

I just found this request - buried in my mailbox - from CSTD secretariat,
missing almost two weeks and the deadline is Jan 15. So sorry about
that.

Is there any volunteer to prepare draft for our submission?
That will help.

many thanks,

izumi


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Mongi Hamdi <Mongi.Hamdi at unctad.org>
Date: 2010/12/24
Subject: Contributions to the outcomes on the discussions on CSTD
priority themes


Dear colleagues and participants,

First of all, allow me to thank you for your participation in the
inter-sessional panel of the Commission on Science and Technology for
Development (CSTD) which took place 15-17 December 2010.

I would like to remind you to please send us the "main findings and
recommendations" on the priority themes of the CSTD before 15 January
2011, for us to include them for discussion at the 14th session of the
CSTD, which will take place in May 2011.

These priority themes are:

-Technologies to address challenges in areas such as agriculture and water
-Measuring the impact of information and communications technologies
for development

In this connection, I am attaching the issues papers which the
Secretariat has prepared for this Panel for reference.

I look forward to hearing from you soon and wishing you a very happy
holidays and a prosperous new year.

Mongi Hamdi

*********************************************
Mongi Hamdi
Head, Science, Technology and ICT Branch/DTL
United Nations Conference on Trade and Development
Head of the Secretariat of the United Nations Commission
on Science and Technology for Development
Palais des Nations
Room E-7077
Geneva, Switzerland
Tel. 004122 917 5069
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

For all list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
To edit your profile and for other IGC information, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

For all list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
To edit your profile and for other IGC information, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


From yrjo_lansipuro at hotmail.com  Fri Jan  7 16:22:38 2011
From: yrjo_lansipuro at hotmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?B?WXJq9iBM5G5zaXB1cm8=?=)
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 23:22:38 +0200
Subject: [governance] Fwd: Contributions to the outcomes on the
 discussions on CSTD priority themes
In-Reply-To:  <93F4C2F3D19A03439EAC16D47C591DDE0330007053@suex07-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu>
References:  <OFCC72707A.B8F36D58-ONC1257802.0056ED04-C1257802.00581154@unog.un.org>,<AANLkTi=_eJDtzjTpSAtoUR5nWzJz+8Tw0Hf0AVvnoo-v@mail.gmail.com>,<93F4C2F3D19A03439EAC16D47C591DDE0330007053@suex07-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <BAY141-W26222712D6858FB9B07E50FF0B0@phx.gbl>


Izumi,
These requests refer to the traditional  (since 1992) mandate of the CSTD, ie. science and technology for development in general. In 2005, WSIS gave the CSTD an additional, more specific  task:  to help the ECOSOC with the follow-up of the implementation of the outcomes of the WSIS. 
I understand that  the IGC is mainly interested in the latter. The "traditional" CSTD themes, important as they are in themselves, are somewhat outside its immediate focus. 
Wishing a successful 2011 to all,
Yrjö


> From: lmcknigh at syr.edu
> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; iza at anr.org
> Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 15:24:10 -0500
> Subject: RE: [governance] Fwd: Contributions to the outcomes on the discussions on CSTD priority themes
> 
> Izumi,
> 
> I shouldn't volunteer anything a week before classes start. 
> 
> I did take a quick glance at the docs, and 2 out of 3 I at least have an opinion on, while water...I appreciate daily. But have no further comment on.
> 
> So what are they asking for - a couple lines or paragraphs commentary on the reports concluding "issues for consideration"  fed back to them as IGC's "main findings and recommendations" or something more elaborate? Because if it's elaborate they want and we need igc consensus on but  have nothing to start with and it is due in  a week...I have no further comment.
> 
> Lee
> ________________________________________
> From: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org [governance-request at lists.cpsr.org] On Behalf Of Izumi AIZU [iza at anr.org]
> Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 7:43 PM
> To: Governance List
> Subject: [governance] Fwd: Contributions to the outcomes on the discussions on CSTD priority themes
> 
> Dear list,
> 
> I just found this request - buried in my mailbox - from CSTD secretariat,
> missing almost two weeks and the deadline is Jan 15. So sorry about
> that.
> 
> Is there any volunteer to prepare draft for our submission?
> That will help.
> 
> many thanks,
> 
> izumi
> 
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Mongi Hamdi <Mongi.Hamdi at unctad.org>
> Date: 2010/12/24
> Subject: Contributions to the outcomes on the discussions on CSTD
> priority themes
> 
> 
> Dear colleagues and participants,
> 
> First of all, allow me to thank you for your participation in the
> inter-sessional panel of the Commission on Science and Technology for
> Development (CSTD) which took place 15-17 December 2010.
> 
> I would like to remind you to please send us the "main findings and
> recommendations" on the priority themes of the CSTD before 15 January
> 2011, for us to include them for discussion at the 14th session of the
> CSTD, which will take place in May 2011.
> 
> These priority themes are:
> 
> -Technologies to address challenges in areas such as agriculture and water
> -Measuring the impact of information and communications technologies
> for development
> 
> In this connection, I am attaching the issues papers which the
> Secretariat has prepared for this Panel for reference.
> 
> I look forward to hearing from you soon and wishing you a very happy
> holidays and a prosperous new year.
> 
> Mongi Hamdi
> 
> *********************************************
> Mongi Hamdi
> Head, Science, Technology and ICT Branch/DTL
> United Nations Conference on Trade and Development
> Head of the Secretariat of the United Nations Commission
> on Science and Technology for Development
> Palais des Nations
> Room E-7077
> Geneva, Switzerland
> Tel. 004122 917 5069
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> 
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> To edit your profile and for other IGC information, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> 
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> To edit your profile and for other IGC information, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
 		 	   		  
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From jeremy at ciroap.org  Sat Jan  8 05:36:38 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2011 18:36:38 +0800
Subject: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
Message-ID: <DA78D592-C36E-41EB-B586-BAD199DE89CF@ciroap.org>

Phase 2 of the improvements that I've been undertaking to the IGC Web site are complete.  These include:

A single interface for subscribing to the list and registering on the Web site, which also adds your details to an IGC membership database (subject to eligibility).  I have fixed the LDAP errors that some people encountered when registering, and made that the correct information is now listed for everyone.
Everyone now has the ability to create personal blog posts directly on the IGC Web site.  The latest headlines from these are listed on the front page.  To post to your blog, just log in to the site and then click "Create content" in the left hand column, then "Blog entry".
There is a new Resources page which is editable as a wiki.  You can also upload documents there.  Instructions are given on that page.
Click on the name of any contributor to the site (when you are logged in), and you can see their profile, including their organisation and Web site (if provided). Later, the list of members will also be hyperlinked to member profiles.
There is a privacy policy. Please check this out to make sure that it is OK. If you have any changes to suggest, please post them to the list.
Besides the Twitter feed that I added last time, headlines from external Internet governance blogs are now also included in a column on the front page.
I've moved the list of recent IGC statements to the centre column of the Web site, to more clearly indicate that the centre contains official resources and the right column contains feeds from the broader community.

There's a lot more that could be done, but that will do for now. Some help is needed:

First and most importantly, we need a deputy Web administrator, who can share the load of building and maintaining our Web and database software, and take over from me when I'm unavailable.  Some knowledge of Web content management software (Drupal and/or Wordpress) is desirable, and knowledge of databases (SQL and/or LDAP) and languages (HTML and PHP or Perl) would be beneficial too.
The Twitter and blog feeds could use with more diversity. At the moment Twitter is just sourced from posts tagged "#igf".  If you have a Twitter list that would be a better source of relevant posts than this, let me know.  Also, if you have an Internet governance blog that should be added to the feeds we are aggregating (a list of which is at http://igf-online.net/gregarius), let me know.

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.

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From fulvio.frati at unimi.it  Sat Jan  8 08:15:08 2011
From: fulvio.frati at unimi.it (Fulvio Frati)
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2011 14:15:08 +0100
Subject: [governance] CFP: the 6th International Conference on Network and
 Information Systems Security (SAR-SSI 2011)
Message-ID: <000a01cbaf36$17628b20$4627a160$@unimi.it>

****************************************************************************
**********                                  

Please accept our apologies if you receive multiple copies of this CFP.

****************************************************************************
**********

 

SAR/SSI-2011  CALL FOR PAPERS

International Conference on Network and Information Systems Security

La Rochelle, France - 18-21 May 2011

 

The SAR-SSI conference series provides a forum for presenting novel research
results, practical experiences and 

innovative ideas in network and information systems security. 

The goal of SAR-SSI-2011 is fostering exchanges among academic researchers,
industry and a wider audience 

interested in network and information system security. The conference will
offer a broad area of events, ranging from 

panels, tutorials, technical presentations and informal meetings.
Prospective authors are encouraged to submit papers 

describing novel research contributions as well as proposals for tutorials
and panels. Submissions can address 

theoretical issues in network and information system security or provide
practical and operational experiences in 

security management. Languages for papers and presentations can be French or
English, both languages being used in 

SAR-SSI. 

 

TOPICS 

Authors are invited to submit research papers, papers presenting a practical
experience or new industrial applications, 

panel and tutorial proposals on topics related to network and information
systems security. 

Topics of interest include, but are not limited to:

 

+Network Security

  - Security of new network architectures (e.g. VoIP, MAN/WAN,
Giga-Ethernet)

  - Security in wireless and adhoc networks,

  - Security of communications (e.g. VPN, IPsec, SSL, MPLS)

  - Security in backbone and IPv6 networks

  - Multicast security

  - Security in peer-to-peer systems

  - Security in embedded networks

+Formal methods and models for computer security

  - Applied cryptography

  - Authentication and access control

  - Anonymity and privacy 

  - Metrology and security measurement 

  - Public Key Infrastructures (PKI)

  - Security protocols

  - Security assessment and certification 

  - Trust representation and management

+Computer Forensics and Incident Response

  - Intrusion detection systems, honeypots

  - Worms, Viruses, Botnets, Malware and Spyware

  - Security assessment

+Software and Systems Security

  - Reverse engineering and software protection

  - Methodology, ethics, legislation and regulation 

  - Biometry and watermarking

  - E-commerce security

  - Security in vehicular communications 

+XML, Web Services and Cloud Security

  - Web services and GRID computing security

  - Security on Untrusted Clouds

  - Frameworks for managing inter-organizational trust relationships

  - Web services exploitation of Trusted Computing

  - Secure orchestration of Web services

 

PAPER SUBMISSIONS

Submissions should not exceed 15 pages must include on the cover page the
paper title, author(s) name(s) and 

affiliation, a full address (Phone, fax, e-mail), an abstract of the paper
(150 words max) and no more than 5 keywords. 

Authors must submit an electronic version of their paper (PDF / A4 format).
Authors are requested to use the sarssi.cls 

type and use the alpha style for the bibliography. For the final version the
sources of the contribution in LaTeX will 

also be required. All accepted papers will also be published in the
conference proceeding by IEEE, and will be indexed 

by IEEE Xplore Digital Library.

 

The submission of papers must be done through the EasyChair Conference
system using the following page: 

http://www.easychair.org/conferences/?conf=sarssi2011

 

PANEL PROPOSALS 

The conference may include panel sessions addressing topics of interest to
the computer security community. 

Proposals for panels should list possible panellists, specifying those who
have confirmed participation. Please submit 

panel proposals by email to the TPC co-chairs. 

 

JOURNAL PUBLICATION 

Authors of the best papers selected by the technical program committee will
be invited to publish an extended 

version of their paper in a journal of international audience. 

 

TUTORIALS 

The conference will include a tutorial and prominent invited speakers
session. The tutorials will address hot research 

and/or industry topics relating to network and information systems security.
Please submit tutorial proposals by email 

to the TPC co-chairs.

 

IMPORTANT DATES

Submission: February 14th, 2011                                            

Notification: March 29th, 2011


Registration: April 18th, 2011 (reduced fare)

Camera Ready Version: April 25th, 2011

Conference: May 18th - 21st, 2011

 

COMMITTEES

 

General Chairs

- Ahmed Serhrouchni, Télécom ParisTech, France

 

Steering Committee

- Abdelmajid Bouabdallah, UTC, France

- Danielle Boulanger,  Univ. Lyon-Jean Moulin, France

- Isabelle Chrisment, Université Nancy I, France

- Alban Gabillon, Université de la Polynésie Française

- Ludovic Mé, Supélec, France

- Ahmed Serhrouchni, Télécom ParisTech, France

 

Technical Program Committee Chair

- Ernesto Damiani, Università degli Studi di Milano, Italy

 

Organizing Committee

- Ibrahim Hajjeh, Ineovation, France

- Jean Leneutre, Télécom ParisTech, France

- Radwan Saâd, Télécom ParisTech, France

- Ahmed Serhrouchni, Télécom ParisTech, France

- Youcef Begriche, IEEE, France

- Rim Moalla, Télécom ParisTech, France 

 

Technical Program Committee

 

- Mhamed Abdallah, Telecom Sud Paris, France

- Mohammed Achemlal, France Telecom / Orange, France

- Hossam Afifi, Telecom Sud Paris, France

- Claudio Agostino Ardagna, Univ. degli Studi di Milano, Italy

- Gildas Avoine, Université catholique de Louvain, Belgique

- Mohammed Badra, Limos CNRS, Clermont Ferrand, France

- Youcef Begriche, IEEE, France

- Patrick Bellot, Télécom ParisTech, France

- Nadia Bennani, INSA-Lyon, France

- Abdelmalek Benzekri, IRIT, Toulouse, France

- Christophe Bidan, Supélec, France

- Karima Boudaoud, Université de Nice, France

- Adel Bouhoula, SUPCOM of Tunis, Tunisie

- Lionel Brunie, INSA-Lyon, France

- Laurent Bussard, Microsoft Innovation Center, Germany

- Laurent Butti, Orange R&D, France

- Marco Casassa-Mont, HPLabs, HK

- Yacine Challal, UTC, France

- Claude Chaudet, Télécom ParisTech, France 

- Ken Chen, Université de Paris 13, France

- Yves Correc, DGA/CELAR, France

- Bernard Cousin, IRISA, France

- Mathieu Couture, Carleton University, Canada

- Frederic Cuppens, Telecom Bretagne, France

- Nora Cuppens-Boulahia, Telecom Bretagne, France

- Hervé Debar, Telecom Sud Paris, France

- Rachida Dssouli, Concordia University, Canada

- Anas Abou El Kalam, ENSEEIHT, France

- Robert Erra, ESIEA, Paris, France

- Mounir Frikha, SUPCOM of Tunis, Tunisie 

- Laurent Gallon, Université de Pau, France

- Sihem Guemara, SUPCOM of Tunis, Tunisie

- Gilles Guette, University of Rennes 1, France

- Vincent Guyot, ESIEA, Paris, France

- Gaétan Hains, Université Paris-Est, France

- Ibrahim Hajjeh, Ineovation, France

- Artur Hecker, Télécom ParisTech, France 

- Guillaume  Hiet, Supélec, France

- Mathieu Jaume, Lab. d'Informatique de Paris 6, France

- Rida Khatoun, UTT, Troyes, France

- Abou Khaled Omar, HES.SO, Fribourg, Switzerland 

- Djamel Khadraoui, CRP Henri Tudor, Luxembourg

- Houda Labiod, Télécom ParisTech, France

- Mohamed Lambarki, ESIEA, Paris, France

- Jean-Louis Lanet, University of Limoges, France

- Maryline Laurent, Telecom Sud Paris, France

- Daniel Le Métayer, INRIA Grenoble - Rhône-Alpes, France

- Jean Leneutre, Télécom ParisTech, France

- Bruno Martin, Université de Nice Sophia Antipolis, France

- Fabio Martinelli, IIT-CNR, Italy

- Ludovic Mé, Supélec, France

- Mohamed Mosbah, Labri, Bordeaux, France

- Elena Mugellini, HES.SO, Fribourg, Swizertland

- Farid Naït-Abdesselam, Univ. of Paris Descartes, France

- Philippe Owezarski, LAAS, CNRS, France

- Guillaume Piolle, Supélec, France

- Fabien Pouget, CERTA, France

- Nicolas Prigent, Supélec, France

- Guy Pujolle, Laboratoire d'Informatique de Paris 6, France

- Jean-Luc Richier, Lab. d'Informatique de Grenoble, France

- Etienne Riviere, Université de Neuchâtel, Switzerland

- Jean-Marc Robert, École de Tech. Supérieure, Canada

- Yves Roudier, Institut Eurécom, France

- Jörg Schwenk, University of Bochum, Germany

- Eric Totel, Supélec, France

- Frederic Tronel, Supélec, France

- Pascal Urien, Télécom ParisTech, France

- Valerie Viet Triem Tong, Supélec, France

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From email at hakik.org  Sat Jan  8 08:38:30 2011
From: email at hakik.org (Hakikur Rahman)
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2011 19:38:30 +0600
Subject: [governance] Fwd: Contributions to the outcomes on the
  discussions on CSTD priority themes
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=_eJDtzjTpSAtoUR5nWzJz+8Tw0Hf0AVvnoo-v@mail.gmail.c
 om>
References: <OFCC72707A.B8F36D58-ONC1257802.0056ED04-C1257802.00581154@unog.un.org>
 <AANLkTi=_eJDtzjTpSAtoUR5nWzJz+8Tw0Hf0AVvnoo-v@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110108134012.8B8C84B509@npogroups.org>

Dear Izumi,

I will be pleased to volunteer, if opportunity exists, especially the 
second theme is relevant to my research area.

Thanking you,
Hakikur


At 06:43 AM 1/7/2011, Izumi AIZU wrote:
>Dear list,
>
>I just found this request - buried in my mailbox - from CSTD secretariat,
>missing almost two weeks and the deadline is Jan 15. So sorry about
>that.
>
>Is there any volunteer to prepare draft for our submission?
>That will help.
>
>many thanks,
>
>izumi
>
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>From: Mongi Hamdi <Mongi.Hamdi at unctad.org>
>Date: 2010/12/24
>Subject: Contributions to the outcomes on the discussions on CSTD
>priority themes
>
>
>Dear colleagues and participants,
>
>First of all, allow me to thank you for your participation in the
>inter-sessional panel of the Commission on Science and Technology for
>Development (CSTD) which took place 15-17 December 2010.
>
>I would like to remind you to please send us the "main findings and
>recommendations" on the priority themes of the CSTD before 15 January
>2011, for us to include them for discussion at the 14th session of the
>CSTD, which will take place in May 2011.
>
>These priority themes are:
>
>-Technologies to address challenges in areas such as agriculture and water
>-Measuring the impact of information and communications technologies
>for development
>
>In this connection, I am attaching the issues papers which the
>Secretariat has prepared for this Panel for reference.
>
>I look forward to hearing from you soon and wishing you a very happy
>holidays and a prosperous new year.
>
>Mongi Hamdi
>
>*********************************************
>Mongi Hamdi
>Head, Science, Technology and ICT Branch/DTL
>United Nations Conference on Trade and Development
>Head of the Secretariat of the United Nations Commission
>on Science and Technology for Development
>Palais des Nations
>Room E-7077
>Geneva, Switzerland
>Tel. 004122 917 5069
>____________________________________________________________
>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
>To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
>For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>To edit your profile and for other IGC information, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
>Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="agriculture-f.pdf"
>Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="agriculture-f.pdf"
>X-Attachment-Id: 5ea1268d0850f9be_0.1
>
>Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="water-f.pdf"
>Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="water-f.pdf"
>X-Attachment-Id: 5ea1268d0850f9be_0.2
>
>Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="measuring-f.pdf"
>Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="measuring-f.pdf"
>X-Attachment-Id: 5ea1268d0850f9be_0.3

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


From tijani.benjemaa at planet.tn  Sat Jan  8 09:16:57 2011
From: tijani.benjemaa at planet.tn (Tijani BEN JEMAA)
Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2011 15:16:57 +0100
Subject: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
In-Reply-To: <DA78D592-C36E-41EB-B586-BAD199DE89CF@ciroap.org>
References: <DA78D592-C36E-41EB-B586-BAD199DE89CF@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <E2A255ED2CA74DF497F6E6084461BB4C@MTBJ>

*	A single interface for subscribing to the list and registering on
the Web site, which also adds your details to an IGC membership database
(subject to eligibility).  I have fixed the LDAP errors that some people
encountered when registering, and made that the correct information is now
listed for everyone.

No Jeremy, I'm still unable to edit, and I always get the same error
message. Only one thing changed: you have put the right name of my
organization and its right URL.

 

------------------------------------------------------------

Tijani BEN JEMAA

Vice Chairman of CIC

World Federation of Engineering Organizations

Phone : + 216 70 825 231

Mobile : + 216 98 330 114

Fax     : + 216 70 825 231

------------------------------------------------------------

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From dg_cameron at bigpond.com  Sat Jan  8 21:33:27 2011
From: dg_cameron at bigpond.com (Don Cameron)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 13:33:27 +1100
Subject: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
In-Reply-To: <DA78D592-C36E-41EB-B586-BAD199DE89CF@ciroap.org>
References: <DA78D592-C36E-41EB-B586-BAD199DE89CF@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <000001cbafa5$98f9e650$caedb2f0$@com>

Are we required to resubscribe to the list via the web interface or will
current memberships remain in place? - To be honest I have little interest
in blogging  (or bloggers) however am keen to remain on this list. May I
also reiterate that (hopefully) voting does not become a prerequisite for
membership of the IGC (or for that matter,  any other NGO) - or if this is
contemplated that mechanisms exist for members wishing to abstain without
losing membership rights.

 

Don 

 

From: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org
[mailto:governance-request at lists.cpsr.org] On Behalf Of Jeremy Malcolm
Sent: Saturday, 8 January 2011 9:37 PM
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
Subject: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site

 

Phase 2 of the improvements that I've been undertaking to the IGC Web site
are complete.  These include:

 

*	A single interface for subscribing to the list and registering on
the Web site, which also adds your details to an IGC membership database
(subject to eligibility).  I have fixed the LDAP errors that some people
encountered when registering, and made that the correct information is now
listed for everyone.
*	Everyone now has the ability to create personal blog posts
<http://www.igcaucus.org/blog>  directly on the IGC Web site.  The latest
headlines from these are listed on the front page.  To post to your blog,
just log in to the site and then click "Create content" in the left hand
column, then "Blog entry".
*	There is a new Resources page <http://www.igcaucus.org/wiki>  which
is editable as a wiki.  You can also upload documents there.  Instructions
are given on that page.
*	Click on the name of any contributor to the site (when you are
logged in), and you can see their profile, including their organisation and
Web site (if provided). Later, the list of members will also be hyperlinked
to member profiles.
*	There is a privacy policy <http://www.igcaucus.org/privacy> . Please
check this out to make sure that it is OK. If you have any changes to
suggest, please post them to the list.
*	Besides the Twitter feed that I added last time, headlines from
external Internet governance blogs are now also included in a column on the
front page.

*	I've moved the list of recent IGC statements to the centre column of
the Web site, to more clearly indicate that the centre contains official
resources and the right column contains feeds from the broader community.

 

There's a lot more that could be done, but that will do for now. Some help
is needed:

 

*	First and most importantly, we need a deputy Web administrator, who
can share the load of building and maintaining our Web and database
software, and take over from me when I'm unavailable.  Some knowledge of Web
content management software (Drupal and/or Wordpress) is desirable, and
knowledge of databases (SQL and/or LDAP) and languages (HTML and PHP or
Perl) would be beneficial too.
*	The Twitter and blog feeds could use with more diversity. At the
moment Twitter is just sourced from posts tagged "#igf".  If you have a
Twitter list that would be a better source of relevant posts than this, let
me know.  Also, if you have an Internet governance blog that should be added
to the feeds we are aggregating (a list of which is at
http://igf-online.net/gregarius), let me know.

 

-- 

Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow's Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong

Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer
groups from around the world

for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to
consumers. Register now!
 <http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress>
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress

Twitter #CICongress


Read our  <http://www.consumersinternational.org/email-confidentiality>
email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.

 

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____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


From jeremy at ciroap.org  Sun Jan  9 05:09:29 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 18:09:29 +0800
Subject: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
In-Reply-To: <000001cbafa5$98f9e650$caedb2f0$@com>
References: <DA78D592-C36E-41EB-B586-BAD199DE89CF@ciroap.org> <000001cbafa5$98f9e650$caedb2f0$@com>
Message-ID: <63F72B70-46B3-408B-AECA-528D3F484A00@ciroap.org>

On 09/01/2011, at 10:33 AM, Don Cameron wrote:

> Are we required to resubscribe to the list via the web interface or will current memberships remain in place?

You don't have to if you don't want to vote, as it sounds like you don't.

> May I also reiterate that (hopefully) voting does not become a prerequisite for membership of the IGC

It is already a prerequisite of full membership.  But if you don't care about voting, then you get all the other privileges of membership, such as they are.

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.

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From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de  Sun Jan  9 05:29:31 2011
From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang=22?=)
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2011 11:29:31 +0100
Subject: [governance] CFP Internet of Things
References:  <OFCC72707A.B8F36D58-ONC1257802.0056ED04-C1257802.00581154@unog.un.org>
 <AANLkTi=_eJDtzjTpSAtoUR5nWzJz+8Tw0Hf0AVvnoo-v@mail.gmail.com>
 <93F4C2F3D19A03439EAC16D47C591DDE0330007053@suex07-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu>
 <BAY141-W26222712D6858FB9B07E50FF0B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID:  <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8A07626@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>

Please distribute as widely as possible. Best regards Wolfgang Kleinwächter <http://euronf.enst.fr/en_accueil.html> 

 

Call for Papers (CFP)

The Governance Dimension of the Internet of Things

 

EURO-NF & GOVPIMINT Workshop (Leipzig II)

in Cooperation with the Annual Meeting of the 

IGF Dynamic Coalition of the Internet of Things (IGF-DyCIT)

 

Leipzig, Germany, March 24 - 25, 2011

 

The EURO-NF Network of Excellence Project under EU-FP 7 has sponsored a Joint Special Research Project (JSRP) on "Governance and Privacy Implications of the Internet of Things" (GOVPIMINT).  The project invites now papers for a high level expert workshop on the "Governance Dimension of the Internet of Things", Leipzig, March 24 - 25, 2011.     

We call for Papers for the following six issues: 

*	The role of the Domain Name System (DNS) in building networks which link objects together 
*	The mechanisms and procedures for the allocation of critical Internet resources, in particular IP addresses, to objects 
*	The design for an informal or formal governance mechanisms for the ONS and networks which link objects to the Internet, if needed 
*	The options for privacy protection, in particular at the "Rendezvous Point" where on object meets a subject (the concept of "the right to silence the chip") 
*	The challenges for security and stability of the Internet 
*	The role of the various stakeholders (Private Sector, Technical Community, Government, Users/Civil Society) 

Please send a one page abstract until February 15, 2011 to info at hoferichter.eu <mailto:info at hoferichter.eu> . 

 

Background:

While there is still a discussion, what the concept of the" Internet of Things" means in practice, the real process of connecting objects equipped with RFID chips to the Internet via an IPv6 address continues to move forward. The market is growing and so growths the debate about the governance implications of the "Internet of Things". The European Commission has established a "Task Force on the Internet of Things", the European parliament has published a report about the issue and the 5th UN sponsored Internet Governance Forum (IGF) has reactivated the Dynamic Coalition on the Internet of Things (IGF-DyCIT) in Vilnjus, September 2010.
Among the key issues under consideration is whether an "Internet of Things" needs a governance mechanisms and, if yes, how such a mechanism should be designed. Other key issues are privacy, security and the idea to introduce a "right to silence the chip".

The EURO-NF research project, which operates under 6th FP of the European Commission, has sponsored in 2009 a workshop on the Internet of Things in Leipzig (Leipzig I). Furthermore it has supported a special joint research project (SJRP) under the title "Governance and Privacy Implications of the Internet of Things" (GOVPIMINT) in 2010 which produced an agenda for further research and potential political action (Aarhus Roadmap). The Leipzig II workshop will be used to disseminate the results of the SJPR. It is organized in collaboration with the reactivated IGF Dynamic Coalition on the Internet of Things (IGF-DyCIT). The plan is that the IGF-DyCIT will use the Leipzig II workshop to draft a plan for further action with regard to the forthcoming 6th UN Internet Governance Forum (IGF), scheduled for September 2011 in Nairobi. 


More information under: http://www.medienstadt-leipzig.org/euronf/ <http://www.medienstadt-leipzig.org/euronf/> 

 

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From jlfullsack at orange.fr  Sun Jan  9 05:37:05 2011
From: jlfullsack at orange.fr (Jean-Louis FULLSACK)
Date: Sun,  9 Jan 2011 02:37:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
In-Reply-To: <63F72B70-46B3-408B-AECA-528D3F484A00@ciroap.org>
References: <DA78D592-C36E-41EB-B586-BAD199DE89CF@ciroap.org>
 <000001cbafa5$98f9e650$caedb2f0$@com>
 <63F72B70-46B3-408B-AECA-528D3F484A00@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <20146454.58313.1294569405421.JavaMail.www@wwinf1e22>

... and HOW will we know that we are (still) mùembers ?

Jean-Louis Fullsack
CSDPT - France




> Message du 09/01/11 11:13
> De : "Jeremy Malcolm" 
> A : "Don Cameron" 
> Copie à : governance at lists.cpsr.org
> Objet : Re: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
> 
> On 09/01/2011, at 10:33 AM, Don Cameron wrote:
Are we required to resubscribe to the list via the web interface or will current memberships remain in place?
> You don't have to if you don't want to vote, as it sounds like you don't.
> May I also reiterate that (hopefully) voting does not become a prerequisite for membership of the IGC
> It is already a prerequisite of full membership.  But if you don't care about voting, then you get all the other privileges of membership, such as they are.
> -- Jeremy Malcolm
> Project Coordinator
> Consumers International
> Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
> Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
> Tel: +60 3 7726 1599
Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
> CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong KongBusinesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the worldfor four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
> http://www.consumersinternational.org/congressTwitter #CICongress
> Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary. 
> 
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From dg_cameron at bigpond.com  Sun Jan  9 05:39:53 2011
From: dg_cameron at bigpond.com (Don Cameron)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 21:39:53 +1100
Subject: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
In-Reply-To: <63F72B70-46B3-408B-AECA-528D3F484A00@ciroap.org>
References: <DA78D592-C36E-41EB-B586-BAD199DE89CF@ciroap.org> <000001cbafa5$98f9e650$caedb2f0$@com> <63F72B70-46B3-408B-AECA-528D3F484A00@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <000d01cbafe9$8d01fe70$a705fb50$@com>

Thanks again Jeremy - It's not about not wanting to vote; it's about the
right to abstain whilst retaining membership privileges. In my experience
with NPO's and NGO's over the years many members abstain from voting at
non-contentious elections or procedural change ballots. IMO this right
should be maintained.

 

Don

 

 

 

From: Jeremy Malcolm [mailto:jeremy at ciroap.org] 
Sent: Sunday, 9 January 2011 9:09 PM
To: Don Cameron
Cc: governance at lists.cpsr.org
Subject: Re: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site

 

On 09/01/2011, at 10:33 AM, Don Cameron wrote:





Are we required to resubscribe to the list via the web interface or will
current memberships remain in place?

 

You don't have to if you don't want to vote, as it sounds like you don't.





May I also reiterate that (hopefully) voting does not become a prerequisite
for membership of the IGC

 

It is already a prerequisite of full membership.  But if you don't care
about voting, then you get all the other privileges of membership, such as
they are.

 

-- 

Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow's Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong

Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer
groups from around the world

for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to
consumers. Register now!
 <http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress>
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress

Twitter #CICongress


Read our  <http://www.consumersinternational.org/email-confidentiality>
email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.

 

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From jeremy at ciroap.org  Sun Jan  9 05:44:48 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 18:44:48 +0800
Subject: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
In-Reply-To: <000d01cbafe9$8d01fe70$a705fb50$@com>
References: <DA78D592-C36E-41EB-B586-BAD199DE89CF@ciroap.org> <000001cbafa5$98f9e650$caedb2f0$@com> <63F72B70-46B3-408B-AECA-528D3F484A00@ciroap.org> <000d01cbafe9$8d01fe70$a705fb50$@com>
Message-ID: <E23DFD48-56FB-46F0-AC36-F3F1F4489D5A@ciroap.org>

On 09/01/2011, at 6:39 PM, Don Cameron wrote:

> Thanks again Jeremy – It’s not about not wanting to vote; it’s about the right to abstain whilst retaining membership privileges. In my experience with NPO’s and NGO’s over the years many members abstain from voting at non-contentious elections or procedural change ballots. IMO this right should be maintained.


Then the charter would have to be amended to effect this.  Who would like to join the charter amendment working group?  I can create a new mailing list right away if we have people who want to be on it.

Bear in mind though that "member" is just a word.  If you are a subscriber to the list, nobody is going to have a problem with you calling yourself an IGC member, even if by the letter of the charter you may not be.

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.

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From dg_cameron at bigpond.com  Sun Jan  9 06:09:12 2011
From: dg_cameron at bigpond.com (Don Cameron)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 22:09:12 +1100
Subject: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
In-Reply-To: <E23DFD48-56FB-46F0-AC36-F3F1F4489D5A@ciroap.org>
References: <DA78D592-C36E-41EB-B586-BAD199DE89CF@ciroap.org> <000001cbafa5$98f9e650$caedb2f0$@com> <63F72B70-46B3-408B-AECA-528D3F484A00@ciroap.org> <000d01cbafe9$8d01fe70$a705fb50$@com> <E23DFD48-56FB-46F0-AC36-F3F1F4489D5A@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <001b01cbafed$a5a84750$f0f8d5f0$@com>

> Then the charter would have to be amended to effect this.  

 

Given I have expressed concerns in this area I will offer to participate in
a 'chart amendment working group' if others deem it necessary, however I do
not believe such is necessary as the current charter appears to provide
adequate coverage.

 

The charter defines a member as follows: "The members of the IGC are
individuals, acting in personal capacity, who subscribe to the charter of
the caucus. All members are equal and have the same rights and duties".

 

The charter further defines self modification (moves to change the charter)
as follows: "In amending the charter, everyone who voted in the previous
election will be deemed a member for amending the charter".

 

This certainly impacts on the right to vote for charter modifications,
however it otherwise has no impact on membership.

 

Don 

 

 

From: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org
[mailto:governance-request at lists.cpsr.org] On Behalf Of Jeremy Malcolm
Sent: Sunday, 9 January 2011 9:45 PM
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Don Cameron
Subject: Re: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site

 

On 09/01/2011, at 6:39 PM, Don Cameron wrote:





Thanks again Jeremy - It's not about not wanting to vote; it's about the
right to abstain whilst retaining membership privileges. In my experience
with NPO's and NGO's over the years many members abstain from voting at
non-contentious elections or procedural change ballots. IMO this right
should be maintained.

 

Then the charter would have to be amended to effect this.  Who would like to
join the charter amendment working group?  I can create a new mailing list
right away if we have people who want to be on it.

 

Bear in mind though that "member" is just a word.  If you are a subscriber
to the list, nobody is going to have a problem with you calling yourself an
IGC member, even if by the letter of the charter you may not be.

 

-- 

Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow's Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong

Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer
groups from around the world

for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to
consumers. Register now!
 <http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress>
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress

Twitter #CICongress


Read our  <http://www.consumersinternational.org/email-confidentiality>
email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.

 

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From jeremy at ciroap.org  Sun Jan  9 06:39:56 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 19:39:56 +0800
Subject: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
In-Reply-To: <001b01cbafed$a5a84750$f0f8d5f0$@com>
References: <DA78D592-C36E-41EB-B586-BAD199DE89CF@ciroap.org> <000001cbafa5$98f9e650$caedb2f0$@com> <63F72B70-46B3-408B-AECA-528D3F484A00@ciroap.org> <000d01cbafe9$8d01fe70$a705fb50$@com> <E23DFD48-56FB-46F0-AC36-F3F1F4489D5A@ciroap.org> <001b01cbafed$a5a84750$f0f8d5f0$@com>
Message-ID: <8D981135-9C2F-43E3-9687-665A9B3BA27B@ciroap.org>

On 09/01/2011, at 7:09 PM, Don Cameron wrote:

> The charter further defines self modification (moves to change the charter) as follows: “In amending the charter, everyone who voted in the previous election will be deemed a member for amending the charter”.
>  
> This certainly impacts on the right to vote for charter modifications, however it otherwise has no impact on membership.

Well, so some say, but others (including myself) interpret it otherwise.  The current membership list is on the basis of those who voted in the last election.  If we want to clarify this, we need to amend the charter.

In other news, I have properly fixed the LDAP errors that were preventing people from editing their profiles to add extra optional profile information (such as addresses and phone numbers), after they had registered.  Sorry about that.

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.

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From dg_cameron at bigpond.com  Sun Jan  9 06:55:40 2011
From: dg_cameron at bigpond.com (Don Cameron)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 22:55:40 +1100
Subject: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
In-Reply-To: <8D981135-9C2F-43E3-9687-665A9B3BA27B@ciroap.org>
References: <DA78D592-C36E-41EB-B586-BAD199DE89CF@ciroap.org> <000001cbafa5$98f9e650$caedb2f0$@com> <63F72B70-46B3-408B-AECA-528D3F484A00@ciroap.org> <000d01cbafe9$8d01fe70$a705fb50$@com> <E23DFD48-56FB-46F0-AC36-F3F1F4489D5A@ciroap.org> <001b01cbafed$a5a84750$f0f8d5f0$@com> <8D981135-9C2F-43E3-9687-665A9B3BA27B@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <000701cbaff4$23304c80$6990e580$@com>

Sorry Jeremy I don't understand - the Charter very clearly states: "The
members of the IGC are individuals, acting in personal capacity, who
subscribe to the charter of the caucus. All members are equal and have the
same rights and duties". This is a statement of fact.

 

The fact the Charter further states: "In amending the charter, everyone who
voted in the previous election will be deemed a member for amending the
charter" does not in any way negate the hierarchically superior membership
criteria outlined above. All it does is set parameters for who can vote on a
change to the Charter.

 

How do you interpret this? - It sounds like the membership list needs
correcting.

 

 

From: Jeremy Malcolm [mailto:jeremy at ciroap.org] 
Sent: Sunday, 9 January 2011 10:40 PM
To: Don Cameron; governance at lists.cpsr.org
Subject: Re: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site

 

On 09/01/2011, at 7:09 PM, Don Cameron wrote:





The charter further defines self modification (moves to change the charter)
as follows: "In amending the charter, everyone who voted in the previous
election will be deemed a member for amending the charter".

 

This certainly impacts on the right to vote for charter modifications,
however it otherwise has no impact on membership.

 

Well, so some say, but others (including myself) interpret it otherwise.
The current membership list is on the basis of those who voted in the last
election.  If we want to clarify this, we need to amend the charter.

 

In other news, I have properly fixed the LDAP errors that were preventing
people from editing their profiles to add extra optional profile information
(such as addresses and phone numbers), after they had registered.  Sorry
about that.

 

-- 

Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow's Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong

Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer
groups from around the world

for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to
consumers. Register now!
 <http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress>
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress

Twitter #CICongress


Read our  <http://www.consumersinternational.org/email-confidentiality>
email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.

 

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From jeremy at ciroap.org  Sun Jan  9 07:28:00 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 20:28:00 +0800
Subject: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
In-Reply-To: <000701cbaff4$23304c80$6990e580$@com>
References: <DA78D592-C36E-41EB-B586-BAD199DE89CF@ciroap.org> <000001cbafa5$98f9e650$caedb2f0$@com> <63F72B70-46B3-408B-AECA-528D3F484A00@ciroap.org> <000d01cbafe9$8d01fe70$a705fb50$@com> <E23DFD48-56FB-46F0-AC36-F3F1F4489D5A@ciroap.org> <001b01cbafed$a5a84750$f0f8d5f0$@com> <8D981135-9C2F-43E3-9687-665A9B3BA27B@ciroap.org> <000701cbaff4$23304c80$6990e580$@com>
Message-ID: <36D44A20-3251-468A-BFEC-34AD0E718E70@ciroap.org>

On 09/01/2011, at 7:55 PM, Don Cameron wrote:

> Sorry Jeremy I don’t understand – the Charter very clearly states: “The members of the IGC are individuals, acting in personal capacity, who subscribe to the charter of the caucus. All members are equal and have the same rights and duties”. This is a statement of fact.

Well, there have been numerous long threads debating this in the past.  For example check out the "IGC members list" thread at http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/arc/governance/2008-07/thrd3.html.  Your interpretation may appear obvious to you, but there are others for whom the contrary interpretation is just as obvious.  So, I don't think we are going to solve the question one way or another without a charter amendment.

> 

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.

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From dg_cameron at bigpond.com  Sun Jan  9 07:42:26 2011
From: dg_cameron at bigpond.com (Don Cameron)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 23:42:26 +1100
Subject: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
In-Reply-To: <36D44A20-3251-468A-BFEC-34AD0E718E70@ciroap.org>
References: <DA78D592-C36E-41EB-B586-BAD199DE89CF@ciroap.org> <000001cbafa5$98f9e650$caedb2f0$@com> <63F72B70-46B3-408B-AECA-528D3F484A00@ciroap.org> <000d01cbafe9$8d01fe70$a705fb50$@com> <E23DFD48-56FB-46F0-AC36-F3F1F4489D5A@ciroap.org> <001b01cbafed$a5a84750$f0f8d5f0$@com> <8D981135-9C2F-43E3-9687-665A9B3BA27B@ciroap.org> <000701cbaff4$23304c80$6990e580$@com> <36D44A20-3251-468A-BFEC-34AD0E718E70@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <000601cbaffa$ab8b9ed0$02a2dc70$@com>

I'm not sure the referenced discussion supports your stance on this Jeremy,
however as you seem to be closed on the matter I'll happily concede your
points. Do whatever you think is best.

 

Don 

 

From: Jeremy Malcolm [mailto:jeremy at ciroap.org] 
Sent: Sunday, 9 January 2011 11:28 PM
To: Don Cameron; governance at lists.cpsr.org
Subject: Re: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site

 

On 09/01/2011, at 7:55 PM, Don Cameron wrote:





Sorry Jeremy I don't understand - the Charter very clearly states: "The
members of the IGC are individuals, acting in personal capacity, who
subscribe to the charter of the caucus. All members are equal and have the
same rights and duties". This is a statement of fact.

 

Well, there have been numerous long threads debating this in the past.  For
example check out the "IGC members list" thread at
http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/arc/governance/2008-07/thrd3.html.  Your
interpretation may appear obvious to you, but there are others for whom the
contrary interpretation is just as obvious.  So, I don't think we are going
to solve the question one way or another without a charter amendment.





-- 

Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow's Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong

Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer
groups from around the world

for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to
consumers. Register now!
 <http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress>
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress

Twitter #CICongress


Read our  <http://www.consumersinternational.org/email-confidentiality>
email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.

 

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From goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au  Sun Jan  9 07:51:55 2011
From: goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au (David Goldstein)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 04:51:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
In-Reply-To: <8D981135-9C2F-43E3-9687-665A9B3BA27B@ciroap.org>
References: <DA78D592-C36E-41EB-B586-BAD199DE89CF@ciroap.org> <000001cbafa5$98f9e650$caedb2f0$@com> <63F72B70-46B3-408B-AECA-528D3F484A00@ciroap.org> <000d01cbafe9$8d01fe70$a705fb50$@com> <E23DFD48-56FB-46F0-AC36-F3F1F4489D5A@ciroap.org> <001b01cbafed$a5a84750$f0f8d5f0$@com> <8D981135-9C2F-43E3-9687-665A9B3BA27B@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <278040.570.qm@web120516.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

This process is absurd Jeremy and makes a mockery any sort of a democracy.

It seems like empire building for the sake of empire building. Ten year old kids 
couldn't make more of a mess of this in organising a school play club. Actually, 
they'd do a much better job.

Additionally, if "the current membership list is on the basis of those who voted 
in the last election," what happens to those who did not vote for whatever 
reason?

David




________________________________
From: Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org>
To: Don Cameron <dg_cameron at bigpond.com>; governance at lists.cpsr.org
Sent: Sun, 9 January, 2011 10:39:56 PM
Subject: Re: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site


On 09/01/2011, at 7:09 PM, Don Cameron wrote:

The charter further defines self modification (moves to change the charter) as 
follows: “In amending the charter, everyone who voted in the previous election 
will be deemed a member for amending the charter”.
> 
>This certainly impacts on the right to vote for charter modifications, however 
>it otherwise has no impact on membership.

Well, so some say, but others (including myself) interpret it otherwise.  The 
current membership list is on the basis of those who voted in the last election. 
 If we want to clarify this, we need to amend the charter.

In other news, I have properly fixed the LDAP errors that were preventing people 
from editing their profiles to add extra optional profile information (such as 
addresses and phone numbers), after they had registered.  Sorry about that.

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599
Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups 
from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to 
consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary. 



      
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From roland at internetpolicyagency.com  Sun Jan  9 08:18:17 2011
From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 13:18:17 +0000
Subject: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
In-Reply-To: <63F72B70-46B3-408B-AECA-528D3F484A00@ciroap.org>
References: <DA78D592-C36E-41EB-B586-BAD199DE89CF@ciroap.org>
 <000001cbafa5$98f9e650$caedb2f0$@com>
 <63F72B70-46B3-408B-AECA-528D3F484A00@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <cYGMyAYZWbKNFAc1@internetpolicyagency.com>

In message <63F72B70-46B3-408B-AECA-528D3F484A00 at ciroap.org>, at 
18:09:29 on Sun, 9 Jan 2011, Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org> writes

>> Are we required to resubscribe to the list via the web interface or will current memberships remain in place?
>
>You don't have to if you don't want to vote, as it sounds like you don't.
>
>> May I also reiterate that (hopefully) voting does not become a prerequisite for membership of the IGC
>
>It is already a prerequisite of full membership.  But if you don't care about voting, then you get all the other privileges of membership, such
>as they are.

Trying to clarify (because I'm a bit confused)...

http://www.igcaucus.org/membership

... talks about "membership" and "list participants", whereas you use 
the terms "full membership" and "membership". (For the same things, or 
are they different)

As far as I can see the charter only says that you can go on the "voter 
list" after two months of subscription to the list. The only thing which 
voting then triggers is a listing as a "member-voter" published 
alongside the electron results.

ps The website looks like a very good collaborative tool.
-- 
Roland Perry
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From dogwallah at gmail.com  Sun Jan  9 08:22:24 2011
From: dogwallah at gmail.com (McTim)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 16:22:24 +0300
Subject: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
In-Reply-To: <278040.570.qm@web120516.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <DA78D592-C36E-41EB-B586-BAD199DE89CF@ciroap.org>
 <000001cbafa5$98f9e650$caedb2f0$@com> <63F72B70-46B3-408B-AECA-528D3F484A00@ciroap.org>
 <000d01cbafe9$8d01fe70$a705fb50$@com> <E23DFD48-56FB-46F0-AC36-F3F1F4489D5A@ciroap.org>
 <001b01cbafed$a5a84750$f0f8d5f0$@com> <8D981135-9C2F-43E3-9687-665A9B3BA27B@ciroap.org>
 <278040.570.qm@web120516.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=wjQWX=VzQXqGX=9EpcHQemTSccRK5j2WnJBDY@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 3:51 PM, David Goldstein
<goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> This process is absurd Jeremy and makes a mockery any sort of a democracy.

+1

Don is correct, when he stated the facts.  I don't see any other
interpretation.

-- 
Cheers,

McTim
"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A
route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel
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From avri at acm.org  Sun Jan  9 08:22:23 2011
From: avri at acm.org (Avri Doria)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 08:22:23 -0500
Subject: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
In-Reply-To: <63F72B70-46B3-408B-AECA-528D3F484A00@ciroap.org>
References: <DA78D592-C36E-41EB-B586-BAD199DE89CF@ciroap.org> <000001cbafa5$98f9e650$caedb2f0$@com> <63F72B70-46B3-408B-AECA-528D3F484A00@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <A2D1709E-86AA-4283-ABD9-7BE266D3C336@acm.org>


On 9 Jan 2011, at 05:09, Jeremy Malcolm wrote:

>> 
>> Are we required to resubscribe to the list via the web interface or will current memberships remain in place?
> 
> You don't have to if you don't want to vote, as it sounds like you don't.
> 

Once again, this is a change.

from the charter's perspective, being on the mailing list, plus the statetment of commitment to the charter's principles, is the requirement for being able to vote.

not being in some other database.

a.

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From avri at acm.org  Sun Jan  9 08:34:38 2011
From: avri at acm.org (Avri Doria)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 08:34:38 -0500
Subject: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
In-Reply-To: <E23DFD48-56FB-46F0-AC36-F3F1F4489D5A@ciroap.org>
References: <DA78D592-C36E-41EB-B586-BAD199DE89CF@ciroap.org> <000001cbafa5$98f9e650$caedb2f0$@com> <63F72B70-46B3-408B-AECA-528D3F484A00@ciroap.org> <000d01cbafe9$8d01fe70$a705fb50$@com> <E23DFD48-56FB-46F0-AC36-F3F1F4489D5A@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <B53BD83F-9F6C-4C2B-BF0F-B509D051D9CD@acm.org>

Hi,

i don't want to change the charter necessarily, especially not to make it match some technical changes to databases,  but if there is such a group (which I personally do not think is necessary) i would like to be on the group that is discussing it.

At the moment there is no need to vote to be on the mailing list and to be a full participant in in all IGC activities except voting, or being appointed as coordinator or appeals team.  The only reason to vote is to be able to vote.  

And for any voting event the following pertains:

> Each person who is subscribed to the list at least two (2) months before the election will be given a voter account.

If any amendment at all was need, it would be because the caucus was starting to do a lot of things by voting - which in itself is contra the spirit of the charter - though not specifically prohibited.  I would personally find this to be disturbing, but even in that case, i think the only change would be to replace 'election' with 'vote'


a.

On 9 Jan 2011, at 05:44, Jeremy Malcolm wrote:

> On 09/01/2011, at 6:39 PM, Don Cameron wrote:
> 
>> Thanks again Jeremy – It’s not about not wanting to vote; it’s about the right to abstain whilst retaining membership privileges. In my experience with NPO’s and NGO’s over the years many members abstain from voting at non-contentious elections or procedural change ballots. IMO this right should be maintained.
> 
> Then the charter would have to be amended to effect this.  Who would like to join the charter amendment working group?  I can create a new mailing list right away if we have people who want to be on it.
> 
> Bear in mind though that "member" is just a word.  If you are a subscriber to the list, nobody is going to have a problem with you calling yourself an IGC member, even if by the letter of the charter you may not be.
> 
> -- 
> Jeremy Malcolm
> Project Coordinator
> Consumers International
> Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
> Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
> Tel: +60 3 7726 1599
> 
> Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
> CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
> Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
> for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
> http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
> Twitter #CICongress
> 
> Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
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> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
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>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> 

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From avri at acm.org  Sun Jan  9 08:59:51 2011
From: avri at acm.org (Avri Doria)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 08:59:51 -0500
Subject: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
In-Reply-To: <000601cbaffa$ab8b9ed0$02a2dc70$@com>
References: <DA78D592-C36E-41EB-B586-BAD199DE89CF@ciroap.org> <000001cbafa5$98f9e650$caedb2f0$@com> <63F72B70-46B3-408B-AECA-528D3F484A00@ciroap.org> <000d01cbafe9$8d01fe70$a705fb50$@com> <E23DFD48-56FB-46F0-AC36-F3F1F4489D5A@ciroap.org> <001b01cbafed$a5a84750$f0f8d5f0$@com> <8D981135-9C2F-43E3-9687-665A9B3BA27B@ciroap.org> <000701cbaff4$23304c80$6990e580$@com> <36D44A20-3251-468A-BFEC-34AD0E718E70@ciroap.org> <000601cbaffa$ab8b9ed0$02a2dc70$@com>
Message-ID: <58BFBCE2-6186-4436-AD3B-502C3B5F9341@acm.org>

Hi,

Co-ordinators should co-ordinate, they should not decide.  Just because Jeremy coded it that way does not mean the issue needs to be closed.

a.

On 9 Jan 2011, at 07:42, Don Cameron wrote:

> I’m not sure the referenced discussion supports your stance on this Jeremy, however as you seem to be closed on the matter I’ll happily concede your points. Do whatever you think is best.
> 
> Don
> 
> From: Jeremy Malcolm [mailto:jeremy at ciroap.org] 
> Sent: Sunday, 9 January 2011 11:28 PM
> To: Don Cameron; governance at lists.cpsr.org
> Subject: Re: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
> 
> On 09/01/2011, at 7:55 PM, Don Cameron wrote:
> 
> 
> Sorry Jeremy I don’t understand – the Charter very clearly states: “The members of the IGC are individuals, acting in personal capacity, who subscribe to the charter of the caucus. All members are equal and have the same rights and duties”. This is a statement of fact.
> 
> Well, there have been numerous long threads debating this in the past.  For example check out the "IGC members list" thread at http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/arc/governance/2008-07/thrd3.html.  Your interpretation may appear obvious to you, but there are others for whom the contrary interpretation is just as obvious.  So, I don't think we are going to solve the question one way or another without a charter amendment.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jeremy Malcolm
> Project Coordinator
> Consumers International
> Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
> Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
> Tel: +60 3 7726 1599
> 
> Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
> CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
> Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
> for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
> http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
> Twitter #CICongress
> 
> Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>   governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
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> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
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> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>   http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> 

____________________________________________________________
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From dogwallah at gmail.com  Sun Jan  9 09:21:18 2011
From: dogwallah at gmail.com (McTim)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 17:21:18 +0300
Subject: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
In-Reply-To: <A2D1709E-86AA-4283-ABD9-7BE266D3C336@acm.org>
References: <DA78D592-C36E-41EB-B586-BAD199DE89CF@ciroap.org>
 <000001cbafa5$98f9e650$caedb2f0$@com> <63F72B70-46B3-408B-AECA-528D3F484A00@ciroap.org>
 <A2D1709E-86AA-4283-ABD9-7BE266D3C336@acm.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimqmeFH3seT80Lvu2B+O7067nhaJsdW9WGQQF9c@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 4:22 PM, Avri Doria <avri at acm.org> wrote:
>
> On 9 Jan 2011, at 05:09, Jeremy Malcolm wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Are we required to resubscribe to the list via the web interface or will current memberships remain in place?
>>
>> You don't have to if you don't want to vote, as it sounds like you don't.
>>
>
> Once again, this is a change.

exactly....this needs to be undone!

-- 
Cheers,

McTim
"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A
route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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From jeremy at ciroap.org  Sun Jan  9 09:51:33 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 22:51:33 +0800
Subject: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
In-Reply-To: <A2D1709E-86AA-4283-ABD9-7BE266D3C336@acm.org>
References: <DA78D592-C36E-41EB-B586-BAD199DE89CF@ciroap.org> <000001cbafa5$98f9e650$caedb2f0$@com> <63F72B70-46B3-408B-AECA-528D3F484A00@ciroap.org> <A2D1709E-86AA-4283-ABD9-7BE266D3C336@acm.org>
Message-ID: <F4D3F91E-6D44-4D27-A426-30CFB5DF11E7@ciroap.org>

On 09/01/2011, at 9:22 PM, Avri Doria wrote:

> On 9 Jan 2011, at 05:09, Jeremy Malcolm wrote:
> 
>>> Are we required to resubscribe to the list via the web interface or will current memberships remain in place?
>> 
>> You don't have to if you don't want to vote, as it sounds like you don't.
> 
> Once again, this is a change.
> 
> from the charter's perspective, being on the mailing list, plus the statetment of commitment to the charter's principles, is the requirement for being able to vote.

Well, it's been that way for years.  Every time you voted using the previous Web-based software that Derrick administered, you were in a database.  The only difference is that the coordinators had to manually construct that database every year (with lots of errors such as including people twice under different addresses).  From now on, the database will take care of itself.  If anyone who wants to vote doesn't want to spend one minute registering to the membership database, then they can send their vote to the coordinators by email - but why they would, I can't fathom.

> Once again, this is a change.

It is a procedural change only, and one which as past coordinators will also tell you, needed to happen.

> [Mctim] exactly....this needs to be undone!

For reasons given above, please take it up with the Appeals Team, McTim.

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.

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From jeremy at ciroap.org  Sun Jan  9 10:18:35 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 23:18:35 +0800
Subject: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
In-Reply-To: <000601cbaffa$ab8b9ed0$02a2dc70$@com>
References: <DA78D592-C36E-41EB-B586-BAD199DE89CF@ciroap.org> <000001cbafa5$98f9e650$caedb2f0$@com> <63F72B70-46B3-408B-AECA-528D3F484A00@ciroap.org> <000d01cbafe9$8d01fe70$a705fb50$@com> <E23DFD48-56FB-46F0-AC36-F3F1F4489D5A@ciroap.org> <001b01cbafed$a5a84750$f0f8d5f0$@com> <8D981135-9C2F-43E3-9687-665A9B3BA27B@ciroap.org> <000701cbaff4$23304c80$6990e580$@com> <36D44A20-3251-468A-BFEC-34AD0E718E70@ciroap.org> <000601cbaffa$ab8b9ed0$02a2dc70$@com>
Message-ID: <CF4264CB-BC45-4016-8AB6-3B6165A6FAC1@ciroap.org>

On 09/01/2011, at 8:42 PM, Don Cameron wrote:

> I’m not sure the referenced discussion supports your stance on this Jeremy, however as you seem to be closed on the matter I’ll happily concede your points. Do whatever you think is best.

I'm not closed on the matter; if you want me to re-title the list of members on the Web site from "membership list" to "currently available voters list", and if nobody objects, then we can certainly do that.  This would deal with your concern, I think.

My response was not intended to say that my interpretation is right, but simply to acknowledge the fact that, going back a long way, there have been differences of opinion on what "membership" means (for example do people have to publicly acknowledge their subscription to the IGC charter every year to remain members, do they have to have voted in the last election to be "full" members, etc...).

It's rather academic though, because none of the various rights of participation in the IGC depend on whether you have the label "member" or not; they depend on whether you satisfy the particular criteria that attach to that right of participation.  So the fact that you and I may disagree on what "member" means doesn't change the effect of the charter on your rights in any instance:

* list members (who can participate in consensus building);
* those who affirm membership of the IGC (who can perhaps consider themselves members);
* those with voter accounts (who can vote for coordinators); or 
* those on the most currently available voters list (who can vote for charter amendments).

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.

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From dg_cameron at bigpond.com  Sun Jan  9 14:35:22 2011
From: dg_cameron at bigpond.com (Don Cameron)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 06:35:22 +1100
Subject: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
In-Reply-To: <278040.570.qm@web120516.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <DA78D592-C36E-41EB-B586-BAD199DE89CF@ciroap.org> <000001cbafa5$98f9e650$caedb2f0$@com> <63F72B70-46B3-408B-AECA-528D3F484A00@ciroap.org> <000d01cbafe9$8d01fe70$a705fb50$@com> <E23DFD48-56FB-46F0-AC36-F3F1F4489D5A@ciroap.org> <001b01cbafed$a5a84750$f0f8d5f0$@com> <8D981135-9C2F-43E3-9687-665A9B3BA27B@ciroap.org> <278040.570.qm@web120516.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002a01cbb034$63191fd0$294b5f70$@com>

> Additionally, if "the current membership list is on the basis of those who voted in the last election," what happens to those who did not vote for whatever reason?

 

David this point is exactly my concern and the reason I entered this conversation – We cannot claim professionalism unless we follow open and proper process.

 

In several unfortunate personalisation’s I and others have loosely been described as ‘lurkers’; ‘internet old timers’, and now in defining the right to abstain from voting, as someone who ‘doesn’t want to vote’ – yet none of these negative descriptors address the very real issue of one persons interpretation of an organisational Charter being used to discriminate against membership. That’s what this discussion is all about.

 

Power building – yes. Democratic – no. 

 

There would appear to be a loan voice on this forum promoting both a need for a membership database as well as a need for the Charter to be changed. A majority would appear to be against such change; yet change is happening regardless.

 

The right of members for lazy consensus before the implementation of any change is discarded for the sake of one person’s interpretation of systems expediency.

 

Is this a right and proper process?

 

Don      



 

From: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.cpsr.org] On Behalf Of David Goldstein
Sent: Sunday, 9 January 2011 11:52 PM
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Jeremy Malcolm; Don Cameron
Subject: Re: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site

 

This process is absurd Jeremy and makes a mockery any sort of a democracy.

It seems like empire building for the sake of empire building. Ten year old kids couldn't make more of a mess of this in organising a school play club. Actually, they'd do a much better job.

Additionally, if "the current membership list is on the basis of those who voted in the last election," what happens to those who did not vote for whatever reason?

David

 

  _____  

From: Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org>
To: Don Cameron <dg_cameron at bigpond.com>; governance at lists.cpsr.org
Sent: Sun, 9 January, 2011 10:39:56 PM
Subject: Re: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site

On 09/01/2011, at 7:09 PM, Don Cameron wrote:





The charter further defines self modification (moves to change the charter) as follows: “In amending the charter, everyone who voted in the previous election will be deemed a member for amending the charter”.

 

This certainly impacts on the right to vote for charter modifications, however it otherwise has no impact on membership.

 

Well, so some say, but others (including myself) interpret it otherwise.  The current membership list is on the basis of those who voted in the last election.  If we want to clarify this, we need to amend the charter.

 

In other news, I have properly fixed the LDAP errors that were preventing people from editing their profiles to add extra optional profile information (such as addresses and phone numbers), after they had registered.  Sorry about that.

 

-- 

Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong

Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world

for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
 <http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress> http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress

Twitter #CICongress


Read our  <http://www.consumersinternational.org/email-confidentiality> email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.

 


 

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From ian.peter at ianpeter.com  Sun Jan  9 16:42:52 2011
From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 08:42:52 +1100
Subject: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
In-Reply-To: <002a01cbb034$63191fd0$294b5f70$@com>
Message-ID: <C950770C.152B5%ian.peter@ianpeter.com>

Hi Don, you wrote

>There would appear to be a loan (sic) voice on this forum promoting both a need
for a membership database as well as a need for the Charter to be changed.

Most of us past co ordinators at least would see a membership database as a
positive step forward and an easing of administrative work. Jeremy is not
alone here and the debate is probably more about the form of a database
rather than the need for one.

As well, many if not most of the lists subscribers would by now realise that
there is a need for the Charter to be revised  in several respects. But
that¹s an undertaking that is going to need a group to take action. (I am
not volunteering!)

So I dont think Jeremy is acting alone. The silence of the majority of
people on this list with the current discussions might have more to do with
having discussed these issues before, or perhaps being disinterested in
matters of administrative process and more interested in internet governance
issues. I don¹t think you can take relative silence to mean that everyone
agrees with the points you make.

Ian Peter



From: Don Cameron <dg_cameron at bigpond.com>
Reply-To: <governance at lists.cpsr.org>, Don Cameron <dg_cameron at bigpond.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 06:35:22 +1100
To: <governance at lists.cpsr.org>, David Goldstein
<goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au>
Subject: RE: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site

> Additionally, if "the current membership list is on the basis of those who
voted in the last election," what happens to those who did not vote for whatever
reason?
 
David this point is exactly my concern and the reason I entered this
conversation ­ We cannot claim professionalism unless we follow open and
proper process.
 
In several unfortunate personalisation¹s I and others have loosely been
described as Œlurkers¹; Œinternet old timers¹, and now in defining the right
to abstain from voting, as someone who Œdoesn¹t want to vote¹ ­ yet none of
these negative descriptors address the very real issue of one persons
interpretation of an organisational Charter being used to discriminate
against membership. That¹s what this discussion is all about.
 
Power building ­ yes. Democratic ­ no.
 
There would appear to be a loan voice on this forum promoting both a need
for a membership database as well as a need for the Charter to be changed. A
majority would appear to be against such change; yet change is happening
regardless.
 
The right of members for lazy consensus before the implementation of any
change is discarded for the sake of one person¹s interpretation of systems
expediency.
 
Is this a right and proper process?
 
Don      


 

From: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org
[mailto:governance-request at lists.cpsr.org] On Behalf Of David Goldstein
Sent: Sunday, 9 January 2011 11:52 PM
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Jeremy Malcolm; Don Cameron
Subject: Re: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
 

This process is absurd Jeremy and makes a mockery any sort of a democracy.

It seems like empire building for the sake of empire building. Ten year old
kids couldn't make more of a mess of this in organising a school play club.
Actually, they'd do a much better job.

Additionally, if "the current membership list is on the basis of those who
voted in the last election," what happens to those who did not vote for
whatever reason?

David

 


From: Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org>
To: Don Cameron <dg_cameron at bigpond.com>; governance at lists.cpsr.org
Sent: Sun, 9 January, 2011 10:39:56 PM
Subject: Re: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site

On 09/01/2011, at 7:09 PM, Don Cameron wrote:


The charter further defines self modification (moves to change the charter)
as follows: ³In amending the charter, everyone who voted in the previous
election will be deemed a member for amending the charter².

 

This certainly impacts on the right to vote for charter modifications,
however it otherwise has no impact on membership.
 

Well, so some say, but others (including myself) interpret it otherwise.
The current membership list is on the basis of those who voted in the last
election.  If we want to clarify this, we need to amend the charter.

 

In other news, I have properly fixed the LDAP errors that were preventing
people from editing their profiles to add extra optional profile information
(such as addresses and phone numbers), after they had registered.  Sorry
about that.

 

-- 

Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow¹s Consumers
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong

Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer
groups from around the world

for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to
consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
<http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress>

Twitter #CICongress


Read our email confidentiality notice
<http://www.consumersinternational.org/email-confidentiality> . Don't print
this email unless necessary.
 

 


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From gpaque at gmail.com  Sun Jan  9 17:04:06 2011
From: gpaque at gmail.com (Ginger Paque)
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2011 17:34:06 -0430
Subject: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
In-Reply-To: <C950770C.152B5%ian.peter@ianpeter.com>
References: <C950770C.152B5%ian.peter@ianpeter.com>
Message-ID: <4D2A30D6.9080600@paque.net>

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From avri at acm.org  Sun Jan  9 17:20:19 2011
From: avri at acm.org (Avri Doria)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 17:20:19 -0500
Subject: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
In-Reply-To: <4D2A30D6.9080600@paque.net>
References: <C950770C.152B5%ian.peter@ianpeter.com> <4D2A30D6.9080600@paque.net>
Message-ID: <B6759E87-3E84-43A8-A855-2B237AD5D00B@acm.org>

Hi,

Jus so you know, if you didn't already, I think that renewing ones membership through the annual assertion that one makes before voting is a critical component of membership.

I do not think that someone who voted once 3 years ago and never did again remains a member.

So no, it is not the act of voting that matters, it is the yearly assertion that one subscribes to the charter that has been linked to the vote.  Perhaps there need to be a way to make that assertion separate from the vote, and that may, though I am not sure, require a small tweak in the charter.  I have no objection to fixing the charter when necessary, and we have done so once already.  What I am very concerned with is the notion of a charter committee just opening it up and seeing how we can change it to meet all sorts of political aspirations.  If there is something that we should do, like allow for separate declarations of support of the charter, e.g. a membership paragraph, then a few people (i think it takes 10) should just suggest a change and we should vote on it.   We should not in any case allow for someone to remain a member without at least some yearly reaffirmation, no matter how that is done. And that is what I think the list being created by Jeremy does - which I believe is contra the charter.

Ian I understand that this is less important that position papers, but I do not see how this should be deprecated or why it would stop anyone from working on papers in another thread if there really were people who wanted to do so.

a.


On 9 Jan 2011, at 17:04, Ginger Paque wrote:

> I agree with Ian:
> 
> "Most of us past co ordinators at least would see a membership database as a positive step forward and an easing of administrative work. Jeremy is not alone here and the debate is probably more about the form of a database rather than the need for one."
> 
> This seems to be a good time to deal with this issue, as there is no pending vote to cause pressure. Concrete alternatives should be proposed to find a consensus solution. Don, do you have any suggestions for a format you would find acceptable?
> 
> Best, Ginger
> 
> On 1/9/2011 5:12 PM, Ian Peter wrote:
>> Hi Don, you wrote
>> 
>>> There would appear to be a loan (sic) voice on this forum promoting both a need for a membership database as well as a need for the Charter to be changed.
>> 
>> Most of us past co ordinators at least would see a membership database as a positive step forward and an easing of administrative work. Jeremy is not alone here and the debate is probably more about the form of a database rather than the need for one.
>> 
>> As well, many if not most of the lists subscribers would by now realise that there is a need for the Charter to be revised  in several respects. But that’s an undertaking that is going to need a group to take action. (I am not volunteering!)
>> 
>> So I dont think Jeremy is acting alone. The silence of the majority of people on this list with the current discussions might have more to do with having discussed these issues before, or perhaps being disinterested in matters of administrative process and more interested in internet governance issues. I don’t think you can take relative silence to mean that everyone agrees with the points you make.
>> 
>> Ian Peter
>> 
>> 
>> From: Don Cameron <dg_cameron at bigpond.com>
>> Reply-To: <governance at lists.cpsr.org>, Don Cameron <dg_cameron at bigpond.com>
>> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 06:35:22 +1100
>> To: <governance at lists.cpsr.org>, David Goldstein <goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au>
>> Subject: RE: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
>> 
>>> Additionally, if "the current membership list is on the basis of those who voted in the last election," what happens to those who did not vote for whatever reason?
>> 
>> David this point is exactly my concern and the reason I entered this conversation – We cannot claim professionalism unless we follow open and proper process.
>> 
>> In several unfortunate personalisation’s I and others have loosely been described as ‘lurkers’; ‘internet old timers’, and now in defining the right to abstain from voting, as someone who ‘doesn’t want to vote’ – yet none of these negative descriptors address the very real issue of one             persons interpretation of an organisational Charter being used to discriminate against membership. That’s what this discussion is all about.
>> 
>> Power building – yes. Democratic – no. 
>> 
>> There would appear to be a loan voice on this forum promoting both a need for a membership database as well as a need for the Charter to be changed. A majority would appear to be against such change; yet change is happening regardless.
>> 
>> The right of members for lazy consensus before the implementation of any change is discarded for the sake of one person’s interpretation of systems expediency.
>> 
>> Is this a right and proper process?
>> 
>> Don      
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.cpsr.org] On Behalf Of David Goldstein
>> Sent: Sunday, 9 January 2011 11:52 PM
>> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Jeremy Malcolm; Don Cameron
>> Subject: Re: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
>> 
>> 
>> This process is absurd Jeremy and makes a mockery any sort of a democracy.
>> 
>> It seems like empire building for the sake of empire building. Ten year old kids couldn't make more of a mess of this in organising a school play club. Actually, they'd do a much better job.
>> 
>> Additionally, if "the current membership list is on the basis of those who voted in the last election," what happens to those who did not vote for whatever reason?
>> 
>> David
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org>
>> To: Don Cameron <dg_cameron at bigpond.com>; governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> Sent: Sun, 9 January, 2011 10:39:56 PM
>> Subject: Re: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
>> 
>> On 09/01/2011, at 7:09 PM, Don Cameron wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> The charter further defines self modification (moves to change the charter) as follows: “In amending the charter, everyone who voted in the previous election will be deemed a member for amending the charter”.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> This certainly impacts on the right to vote for charter modifications, however it otherwise has no impact on membership.
>> 
>> 
>> Well, so some say, but others (including myself) interpret it otherwise.  The current membership list is on the basis of those who voted in the last election.  If we want to clarify this, we need to amend the charter.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> In other news, I have properly fixed the LDAP errors that were preventing people from editing their profiles to add extra optional profile information (such as addresses and phone numbers), after they had registered.  Sorry about that.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> Jeremy Malcolm
>> Project Coordinator
>> Consumers International
>> Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
>> Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
>> Tel: +60 3 7726 1599
>> 
>> Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
>> CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
>> 
>> Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
>> 
>> for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
>> http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress <http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress> 
>> 
>> Twitter #CICongress
>> 
>> 
>> Read our email confidentiality notice <http://www.consumersinternational.org/email-confidentiality> . Don't print this email unless necessary.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>> 
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>> 
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Ginger (Virginia) Paque
> IGCBP Online Coordinator
> DiploFoundation
> www.diplomacy.edu/ig
> The latest from Diplo...
> http://igbook.diplomacy.edu is the online companion to An Introduction to Internet Governance, Diplo's publication on IG. Download the book, read the blogs and post your comments.
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>    governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>    http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> 

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From dg_cameron at bigpond.com  Sun Jan  9 17:37:54 2011
From: dg_cameron at bigpond.com (Don Cameron)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 09:37:54 +1100
Subject: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
In-Reply-To: <4D2A30D6.9080600@paque.net>
References: <C950770C.152B5%ian.peter@ianpeter.com> <4D2A30D6.9080600@paque.net>
Message-ID: <000101cbb04d$db270910$91751b30$@com>

> This seems to be a good time to deal with this issue, as there is no
pending vote to cause pressure. Concrete alternatives should be proposed to
find a consensus solution. Don, do you have any suggestions for a format you
would find acceptable?

 

Ginger my experience with this sort of general (lazy) consensus within
organisations is limited to my work with FOSS where consensus is deemed by
feedback (or lack thereof) to contributor and other change
requests/suggestions. Other orgs have more formal processes in place. Taking
the process to discussions here, it is self-evident that a number of
respondents express concern over recent changes meaning (in the context of
lazy consensus), that all changes should be reversed while impact, issues
and other alternatives are assessed. Whether this happens on this list or
another established for the purpose is again a matter for feedback of the
list. Certainly a time-frame for discussions should be proposed (I would
suggest 1 week is normally adequate) - The 'formal' process at the end of
this time would be to call for a simple online vote. This is a very simple
process that (I believe) evolved from development of the highly successful
Apache project.

 

The alternative to this approach is to formalise these membership issues;
probably by constitution - I am not proposing this.

 

Unfortunately Ian's post missed the most critical point under discussion
being the recent change (as newly entered on the web site) to membership
status - a number of respondents have now queried this - I propose this is
not the sort of change that should be applied without first seeking
consensus.

 

PS - I rather suspect that had due process been followed we all could have
saved a lot of wasted time on these discussions!

 

Don

 

From: Ginger Paque [mailto:gpaque at gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, 10 January 2011 9:04 AM
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Ian Peter
Cc: Don Cameron
Subject: Re: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site

 

I agree with Ian:

"Most of us past co ordinators at least would see a membership database as a
positive step forward and an easing of administrative work. Jeremy is not
alone here and the debate is probably more about the form of a database
rather than the need for one."

This seems to be a good time to deal with this issue, as there is no pending
vote to cause pressure. Concrete alternatives should be proposed to find a
consensus solution. Don, do you have any suggestions for a format you would
find acceptable?

Best, Ginger

On 1/9/2011 5:12 PM, Ian Peter wrote: 

Hi Don, you wrote

>There would appear to be a loan (sic) voice on this forum promoting both a
need for a membership database as well as a need for the Charter to be
changed.

Most of us past co ordinators at least would see a membership database as a
positive step forward and an easing of administrative work. Jeremy is not
alone here and the debate is probably more about the form of a database
rather than the need for one.

As well, many if not most of the lists subscribers would by now realise that
there is a need for the Charter to be revised  in several respects. But
that's an undertaking that is going to need a group to take action. (I am
not volunteering!)

So I dont think Jeremy is acting alone. The silence of the majority of
people on this list with the current discussions might have more to do with
having discussed these issues before, or perhaps being disinterested in
matters of administrative process and more interested in internet governance
issues. I don't think you can take relative silence to mean that everyone
agrees with the points you make.

Ian Peter



  _____  

From: Don Cameron <dg_cameron at bigpond.com>
Reply-To: <governance at lists.cpsr.org>, Don Cameron <dg_cameron at bigpond.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 06:35:22 +1100
To: <governance at lists.cpsr.org>, David Goldstein
<goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au>
Subject: RE: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site

> Additionally, if "the current membership list is on the basis of those who
voted in the last election," what happens to those who did not vote for
whatever reason?
 
David this point is exactly my concern and the reason I entered this
conversation - We cannot claim professionalism unless we follow open and
proper process.
 
In several unfortunate personalisation's I and others have loosely been
described as 'lurkers'; 'internet old timers', and now in defining the right
to abstain from voting, as someone who 'doesn't want to vote' - yet none of
these negative descriptors address the very real issue of one persons
interpretation of an organisational Charter being used to discriminate
against membership. That's what this discussion is all about.
 
Power building - yes. Democratic - no. 
 
There would appear to be a loan voice on this forum promoting both a need
for a membership database as well as a need for the Charter to be changed. A
majority would appear to be against such change; yet change is happening
regardless.
 
The right of members for lazy consensus before the implementation of any
change is discarded for the sake of one person's interpretation of systems
expediency.
 
Is this a right and proper process?
 
Don      




From: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org
[mailto:governance-request at lists.cpsr.org] On Behalf Of David Goldstein
Sent: Sunday, 9 January 2011 11:52 PM
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Jeremy Malcolm; Don Cameron
Subject: Re: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site


This process is absurd Jeremy and makes a mockery any sort of a democracy.

It seems like empire building for the sake of empire building. Ten year old
kids couldn't make more of a mess of this in organising a school play club.
Actually, they'd do a much better job.

Additionally, if "the current membership list is on the basis of those who
voted in the last election," what happens to those who did not vote for
whatever reason?

David



  _____  

From: Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org>
To: Don Cameron <dg_cameron at bigpond.com>; governance at lists.cpsr.org
Sent: Sun, 9 January, 2011 10:39:56 PM
Subject: Re: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site

On 09/01/2011, at 7:09 PM, Don Cameron wrote:


The charter further defines self modification (moves to change the charter)
as follows: "In amending the charter, everyone who voted in the previous
election will be deemed a member for amending the charter".

 

This certainly impacts on the right to vote for charter modifications,
however it otherwise has no impact on membership.


Well, so some say, but others (including myself) interpret it otherwise.
The current membership list is on the basis of those who voted in the last
election.  If we want to clarify this, we need to amend the charter.



In other news, I have properly fixed the LDAP errors that were preventing
people from editing their profiles to add extra optional profile information
(such as addresses and phone numbers), after they had registered.  Sorry
about that.



-- 

Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow's Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong

Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer
groups from around the world

for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to
consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
<http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress> 

Twitter #CICongress


Read our email confidentiality notice
<http://www.consumersinternational.org/email-confidentiality> . Don't print
this email unless necessary.


 

  _____  

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
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To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

 

-- 




Ginger (Virginia) Paque
IGCBP Online Coordinator
DiploFoundation
www.diplomacy.edu/ig 

The latest from Diplo...
http://igbook.diplomacy.edu  <http://igbook.diplomacy.edu/> is the online
companion to An Introduction to Internet Governance, Diplo's publication on
IG. Download the book, read the blogs and post your comments. 

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From mariliamaciel at gmail.com  Sun Jan  9 18:17:09 2011
From: mariliamaciel at gmail.com (Marilia Maciel)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 21:17:09 -0200
Subject: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
In-Reply-To: <DA78D592-C36E-41EB-B586-BAD199DE89CF@ciroap.org>
References: <DA78D592-C36E-41EB-B586-BAD199DE89CF@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikGuMrdsCu=o5iTSpFshhuMYpK_60tn0oTd+d+f@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Jeremy,

Thanks for the great work. These enhancements are really useful.

Some comments:
- The LDAP is still not working properly. I am unable to save information
such as address and website.
- Wouldn´t it be useful to create some kind of categorization for the
documents on the resources page, so they can be retrieved more easily? Is
there a way to add tags to the documents we upload and blog posts we create?
- I would like to suggest that we add a calendar to the page, so people can
add events and we can keep track of critical deadlines. I believe that there
are plug-ins that can be used for that.
- Is there a way we can see the profiles of other members? Can we still add
questions to the profile questionnaire, such as "Twitter user name" and
"main topics of interest"? This could help us find other people with similar
interests and would make networking easier.

Congratulations again!

Best,

Marília

On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 8:36 AM, Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org> wrote:

> Phase 2 of the improvements that I've been undertaking to the IGC Web site
> are complete.  These include:
>
>
>    - A single interface for subscribing to the list and registering on the
>    Web site, which also adds your details to an IGC membership database
>    (subject to eligibility).  I have fixed the LDAP errors that some people
>    encountered when registering, and made that the correct information is now
>    listed for everyone.
>    - Everyone now has the ability to create personal blog posts<http://www.igcaucus.org/blog> directly
>    on the IGC Web site.  The latest headlines from these are listed on the
>    front page.  To post to your blog, just log in to the site and then click
>    "Create content" in the left hand column, then "Blog entry".
>    - There is a new Resources page <http://www.igcaucus.org/wiki> which is
>    editable as a wiki.  You can also upload documents there.  Instructions are
>    given on that page.
>    - Click on the name of any contributor to the site (when you are logged
>    in), and you can see their profile, including their organisation and Web
>    site (if provided). Later, the list of members will also be hyperlinked to
>    member profiles.
>    - There is a privacy policy <http://www.igcaucus.org/privacy>. Please
>    check this out to make sure that it is OK. If you have any changes to
>    suggest, please post them to the list.
>    - Besides the Twitter feed that I added last time, headlines from
>    external Internet governance blogs are now also included in a column on the
>    front page.
>
>
>    - I've moved the list of recent IGC statements to the centre column of
>    the Web site, to more clearly indicate that the centre contains official
>    resources and the right column contains feeds from the broader community.
>
>
> There's a lot more that could be done, but that will do for now. Some help
> is needed:
>
>
>    - First and most importantly, we need a deputy Web administrator, who
>    can share the load of building and maintaining our Web and database
>    software, and take over from me when I'm unavailable.  Some knowledge of Web
>    content management software (Drupal and/or Wordpress) is desirable, and
>    knowledge of databases (SQL and/or LDAP) and languages (HTML and PHP or
>    Perl) would be beneficial too.
>    - The Twitter and blog feeds could use with more diversity. At the
>    moment Twitter is just sourced from posts tagged "#igf".  If you have a
>    Twitter list that would be a better source of relevant posts than this, let
>    me know.  Also, if you have an Internet governance blog that should be added
>    to the feeds we are aggregating (a list of which is at
>    http://igf-online.net/gregarius), let me know.
>
>
> --
>
> *Jeremy Malcolm
> Project Coordinator*
> Consumers International
> Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
> Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
> Malaysia
> Tel: +60 3 7726 1599
> *
> Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers
> CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
> Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer
> groups from around the world
> for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to
> consumers. Register now!
> http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
> Twitter #CICongress
> *
>
> Read our email confidentiality notice<http://www.consumersinternational.org/email-confidentiality>.
> Don't print this email unless necessary.
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>


-- 
Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade
FGV Direito Rio

Center for Technology and Society
Getulio Vargas Foundation
Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
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____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


From jeremy at ciroap.org  Sun Jan  9 21:34:10 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 10:34:10 +0800
Subject: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikGuMrdsCu=o5iTSpFshhuMYpK_60tn0oTd+d+f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DA78D592-C36E-41EB-B586-BAD199DE89CF@ciroap.org>
	 <AANLkTikGuMrdsCu=o5iTSpFshhuMYpK_60tn0oTd+d+f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1294626850.3568.29.camel@terminus-Aspire-L320>

On Sun, 2011-01-09 at 21:17 -0200, Marilia Maciel wrote:
> Dear Jeremy,
> 
> Thanks for the great work. These enhancements are really useful.
> 
> Some comments:

Many thanks for this useful feedback.  I'll try to incorporate these
suggestions into "phase 3".  (This may take some time, due to pressure
of other work.)

Regarding the LDAP problems when you add additional profile details, I
thought I had this nailed already but it will clearly take some more
time.  For now, please hold off on extending your profile until I say
so.

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia-Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong

Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer
groups from around the world for four days of debate and discussion on
the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress

Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless
necessary.
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From jeremy at ciroap.org  Sun Jan  9 22:03:24 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 11:03:24 +0800
Subject: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
In-Reply-To: <B6759E87-3E84-43A8-A855-2B237AD5D00B@acm.org>
References: <C950770C.152B5%ian.peter@ianpeter.com>
	 <4D2A30D6.9080600@paque.net> <B6759E87-3E84-43A8-A855-2B237AD5D00B@acm.org>
Message-ID: <1294628604.3568.81.camel@terminus-Aspire-L320>

On Sun, 2011-01-09 at 17:20 -0500, Avri Doria wrote:

> Jus so you know, if you didn't already, I think that renewing ones membership through the annual assertion that one makes before voting is a critical component of membership.
> 
> I do not think that someone who voted once 3 years ago and never did again remains a member.
> 
> So no, it is not the act of voting that matters, it is the yearly assertion that one subscribes to the charter that has been linked to the vote.  Perhaps there need to be a way to make that assertion separate from the vote, and that may, though I am not sure, require a small tweak in the charter.

I think it would require this.  Anyway, I have taken the initiative of
creating a new mailing list for those who want to discuss this or other
possible charter amendments.  I'm on the list.  I haven't added anyone
else, but you can add yourself by visiting this page:

http://igf-online.net/wws/subscribe/charter

>  We should not in any case allow for someone to remain a member without at least some yearly reaffirmation, no matter how that is done. And that is what I think the list being created by Jeremy does - which I believe is contra the charter.

Then you are worrying needlessly; it does not do that.  The algorithm
that is used for issuing the annual membership list from the database
currently only includes those who self-asserted their membership during
the last election.

It would be technically very easy to allow people to publicly
self-assert membership but not to vote, and/or to make their assertion
at a different time than the elections.  It just remains to make sure
the charter supports this, and that other members agree with you.

Since most of those who have been objecting have been making the
opposite point to you - that membership should *not* be conditioned on
anything other than list membership and agreeing with the charter (even
privately), it is not clear that such an amendment would fly.

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia-Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong

Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer
groups from around the world for four days of debate and discussion on
the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress

Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless
necessary.
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From jeremy at ciroap.org  Sun Jan  9 22:10:24 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 11:10:24 +0800
Subject: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
In-Reply-To: <000101cbb04d$db270910$91751b30$@com>
References: <C950770C.152B5%ian.peter@ianpeter.com>
	 <4D2A30D6.9080600@paque.net>  <000101cbb04d$db270910$91751b30$@com>
Message-ID: <1294629024.3568.93.camel@terminus-Aspire-L320>

On Mon, 2011-01-10 at 09:37 +1100, Don Cameron wrote:

> Unfortunately Ian’s post missed the most critical point under
> discussion being the recent change (as newly entered on the web site)
> to membership status – a number of respondents have now queried this –
> I propose this is not the sort of change that should be applied
> without first seeking consensus.

The notion that there has been any recent change to membership status on the Web site is a misconception.  There has been none.  The list of voting members that is up there now has been there since last year.  The list before that was prepared on the same basis, and as far as I recall, so too the list before that.  In case people are tired of following this discussion, maybe we should take this off-list and then summarise back there.

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia-Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong

Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer
groups from around the world for four days of debate and discussion on
the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress

Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless
necessary.
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From goldstein.roxana at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 09:29:05 2011
From: goldstein.roxana at gmail.com (Roxana Goldstein)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 11:29:05 -0300
Subject: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
In-Reply-To: <DA78D592-C36E-41EB-B586-BAD199DE89CF@ciroap.org>
References: <DA78D592-C36E-41EB-B586-BAD199DE89CF@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimFP_R7AkKksTB-8V=dkTKsCnincsU0PPmD2xK8@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Jeremy,

Congratulations for this work!

I was one of those who asked for improvements in the IGC web site, so I
thank you and the team for this huge effort.

Only one suggestion at the moment, is that the site would have translation
-at least to spanish, french, portuguese- an then to as many languages as
possible.

I think that this caucus must not be  anglosaxon´s only -including in this
category to all of those that can read, speak, write and work in english
even when it is not their first language.

Best wishes and thanks again,
Roxana


2011/1/8 Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org>

> Phase 2 of the improvements that I've been undertaking to the IGC Web site
> are complete.  These include:
>
>
>    - A single interface for subscribing to the list and registering on the
>    Web site, which also adds your details to an IGC membership database
>    (subject to eligibility).  I have fixed the LDAP errors that some people
>    encountered when registering, and made that the correct information is now
>    listed for everyone.
>    - Everyone now has the ability to create personal blog posts<http://www.igcaucus.org/blog> directly
>    on the IGC Web site.  The latest headlines from these are listed on the
>    front page.  To post to your blog, just log in to the site and then click
>    "Create content" in the left hand column, then "Blog entry".
>    - There is a new Resources page <http://www.igcaucus.org/wiki> which is
>    editable as a wiki.  You can also upload documents there.  Instructions are
>    given on that page.
>    - Click on the name of any contributor to the site (when you are logged
>    in), and you can see their profile, including their organisation and Web
>    site (if provided). Later, the list of members will also be hyperlinked to
>    member profiles.
>    - There is a privacy policy <http://www.igcaucus.org/privacy>. Please
>    check this out to make sure that it is OK. If you have any changes to
>    suggest, please post them to the list.
>    - Besides the Twitter feed that I added last time, headlines from
>    external Internet governance blogs are now also included in a column on the
>    front page.
>
>
>    - I've moved the list of recent IGC statements to the centre column of
>    the Web site, to more clearly indicate that the centre contains official
>    resources and the right column contains feeds from the broader community.
>
>
> There's a lot more that could be done, but that will do for now. Some help
> is needed:
>
>
>    - First and most importantly, we need a deputy Web administrator, who
>    can share the load of building and maintaining our Web and database
>    software, and take over from me when I'm unavailable.  Some knowledge of Web
>    content management software (Drupal and/or Wordpress) is desirable, and
>    knowledge of databases (SQL and/or LDAP) and languages (HTML and PHP or
>    Perl) would be beneficial too.
>    - The Twitter and blog feeds could use with more diversity. At the
>    moment Twitter is just sourced from posts tagged "#igf".  If you have a
>    Twitter list that would be a better source of relevant posts than this, let
>    me know.  Also, if you have an Internet governance blog that should be added
>    to the feeds we are aggregating (a list of which is at
>    http://igf-online.net/gregarius), let me know.
>
>
>     --
>
> *Jeremy Malcolm
> Project Coordinator*
> Consumers International
> Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
> Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
> Malaysia
> Tel: +60 3 7726 1599
> *
>      Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers
> CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
> Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer
> groups from around the world
> for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to
> consumers. Register now!
> http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
> Twitter #CICongress
> *
>
> Read our email confidentiality notice<http://www.consumersinternational.org/email-confidentiality>.
> Don't print this email unless necessary.
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>
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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


From ian.peter at ianpeter.com  Mon Jan 10 13:47:58 2011
From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 05:47:58 +1100
Subject: [governance] CSTD nominations
Message-ID: <C9519F8E.15322%ian.peter@ianpeter.com>

As requested by the coordinators, the Nomcom has cut the previous list of 10
names for civil society nominations for CSTD back to 5. The names selected
by the Nomcom are

Izumi Aizu
Anriette Esterhuysen
Parminder Singh
Marilia Maciel
Wolfgang Kleinwachter


I leave it to the Co ordinators to forward these names to the CSTD
Secretariat.

Ian Peter (on behalf of Nomcom) - Jacqueline Morris, Hempal Shresthra,
Gurumurthy Kasinathan and myself


____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
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     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


From fouadbajwa at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 15:12:43 2011
From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Bajwa)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 01:12:43 +0500
Subject: [governance] Kenya's IGF 2011 Announcement News
Message-ID: <AANLkTikDdMBaBdzmbPmn7rzFaeg3z8pUcdGrt-B54GWJ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks to Tracy for sharing this bit of information:

Kenya’s global status in IT sector grows
By JEVANS NYABIAGE jnyabienge at ke.nationmedia.com Posted Tuesday,
January 4 2011 at 18:12
Source: http://www.nation.co.ke/business/news/Kenyas%20global%20status%20in%20IT%20sector%20grows/-/1006/1083636/-/10nwbahz/-/

Kenya’s stature in the technology world is growing globally as it
prepares to host a major international conference this year, the
second in as many years.

Kenya will host the Sixth International Governance Forum in September
at the United Nations offices in Gigiri, Nairobi.

Information PS Bitange Ndemo says the forum will share insights into
the potential of the Internet and its governance.

The forum is a follow-up of the World Summit on the Information
Society, which took place in Tunis in 2005.

“We proudly look forward to hosting yet another significant Internet
governance process in Kenya,” says Alice Munyua, chair of the Kenya
organising committee.

Last March, Nairobi hosted the 37th Internet Corporation for Assigned
Names and Numbers global meeting.

At the time, the organisation’s chief executive and president Rod
Beckstrom said Kenya had provided the best internet connection
compared to the venues for all the previous meetings.

“We will use Nairobi as a benchmark for future meetings,” said Mr Beckstrom.

The five previous meetings of the forum were held in Athens, Greece,
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, Hyderabad, India, Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt and
Vilnius, Lithuania.

Kenya’s information communication technology sector has grown by
double digits, prompting the World Bank to project that the country is
at a ‘tipping point’ for a possible economic boom.

Major IT innovations include crisis monitoring Ushahidi and global
winner M-pesa, the mobile money transfer service.

There have also been huge investments in fibre optic cables and the
proposed technology city.

-- 
Regards.
--------------------------
Fouad Bajwa
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
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     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

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From mariliamaciel at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 17:54:56 2011
From: mariliamaciel at gmail.com (Marilia Maciel)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 20:54:56 -0200
Subject: [governance] CSTD nominations
In-Reply-To: <C9519F8E.15322%ian.peter@ianpeter.com>
References: <C9519F8E.15322%ian.peter@ianpeter.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinG=TLmYDuv_K_qxweM0tDVRECNEa56KPGLgZPG@mail.gmail.com>

Many thanks for the NomCom for carrying out this very difficult task.
And personally thank you for the trust. I will give my very best to fulfill
this responsibility.


Marília

On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 4:47 PM, Ian Peter <ian.peter at ianpeter.com> wrote:

> As requested by the coordinators, the Nomcom has cut the previous list of
> 10
> names for civil society nominations for CSTD back to 5. The names selected
> by the Nomcom are
>
> Izumi Aizu
> Anriette Esterhuysen
> Parminder Singh
> Marilia Maciel
> Wolfgang Kleinwachter
>
>
> I leave it to the Co ordinators to forward these names to the CSTD
> Secretariat.
>
> Ian Peter (on behalf of Nomcom) - Jacqueline Morris, Hempal Shresthra,
> Gurumurthy Kasinathan and myself
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


-- 
Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade
FGV Direito Rio

Center for Technology and Society
Getulio Vargas Foundation
Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
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From aizu at anr.org  Mon Jan 10 19:51:55 2011
From: aizu at anr.org (Izumi AIZU)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:51:55 +0900
Subject: [governance] Re: CSTD nominations
In-Reply-To: <C9519F8E.15322%ian.peter@ianpeter.com>
References: <C9519F8E.15322%ian.peter@ianpeter.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTim9y1hi90Z_W5NgQYPqyMp+EjszHUJtU+2D-BW7@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you very much NomCom and Ian in particular for nominating
them - though unfortunately, we had to cut down to five and am sure
it was not an easy work over the holiday season.

I have just sent these names to he CSTD secretariat as they
indicated that they need to receive it asap.

Personally like Marilia, I thank your trust and will do my best to
carry forward our cause into the new process.

izumi



2011/1/11 Ian Peter <ian.peter at ianpeter.com>:
> As requested by the coordinators, the Nomcom has cut the previous list of 10
> names for civil society nominations for CSTD back to 5. The names selected
> by the Nomcom are
>
> Izumi Aizu
> Anriette Esterhuysen
> Parminder Singh
> Marilia Maciel
> Wolfgang Kleinwachter
>
>
> I leave it to the Co ordinators to forward these names to the CSTD
> Secretariat.
>
> Ian Peter (on behalf of Nomcom) - Jacqueline Morris, Hempal Shresthra,
> Gurumurthy Kasinathan and myself
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


From jeremy at ciroap.org  Mon Jan 10 21:50:45 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 10:50:45 +0800
Subject: [governance] Advance notice of the need to move this list
Message-ID: <1294714245.3176.586.camel@terminus-Aspire-L320>

This is to seek feedback on options for moving the IGC governance
mailing list, because the CPSR which has hosted our list is no longer
operating and cannot maintain its free service to us indefinitely.
There is no immediate urgency, because we have about two years before we
have to vacate the cpsr.org mailing list server, but it is best to plan
now.

I can see three options.

1. Asking another like-minded organisation to host it.  I have checked
with the APC who host our Web site, and they say that their mailing list
server runs different software (Mailman), so it would be difficult and
time-consuming to try to shift our archives over to their server.

2. Move our mailing list to the igf-online.net server that hosts the IGF
Community Site, which is where I have created the subsidiary mailing
lists for our IGC working groups.  It runs the same software that we use
now, so migrating the list with archives intact would be fairly easy.

3. The other option is that we raise some money and hire our own
dedicated virtual server.  We could, in that case, move our Web site and
database over there too.

I would recommend option 2.  The igf-online.net server was originally
established for the Rio IGF meeting in 2007 as the successor to the
earlier IGF Community Site at igf2006.info that I co-developed.  It is
currently hosted by my employer Consumers International.

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia-Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong

Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer
groups from around the world for four days of debate and discussion on
the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress

Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless
necessary.
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From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de  Tue Jan 11 03:57:35 2011
From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang=22?=)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:57:35 +0100
Subject: AW: [governance] Re: CSTD nominations
References: <C9519F8E.15322%ian.peter@ianpeter.com>
 <AANLkTim9y1hi90Z_W5NgQYPqyMp+EjszHUJtU+2D-BW7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID:  <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8A0764F@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>

Dear list
 
Thank you very much for the trust you have in me to represent the IGC and civil society in the new "UNCSTD Working Group on IGF Improvement". I will certainly do my best and report back as intense as possible. And I (with the others from our group) would be also happy to use our list for virtual consultations on relevant issues. Please use me (and the other four IGC reps) as YOUR channel to the Working Group. 
 
With the insider knowledge I have from previous groups like WGIG or MAG I am well equipped to help newcomers from governments to get a better understanding what multistakeholderism means in Internet Governance and I am also prepared to say no, if needed. 
 
Best wishes
 
wolfgang  

________________________________

Von: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org im Auftrag von Izumi AIZU
Gesendet: Di 11.01.2011 01:51
An: Ian Peter
Cc: governance at lists.cpsr.org
Betreff: [governance] Re: CSTD nominations



Thank you very much NomCom and Ian in particular for nominating
them - though unfortunately, we had to cut down to five and am sure
it was not an easy work over the holiday season.

I have just sent these names to he CSTD secretariat as they
indicated that they need to receive it asap.

Personally like Marilia, I thank your trust and will do my best to
carry forward our cause into the new process.

izumi



2011/1/11 Ian Peter <ian.peter at ianpeter.com>:
> As requested by the coordinators, the Nomcom has cut the previous list of 10
> names for civil society nominations for CSTD back to 5. The names selected
> by the Nomcom are
>
> Izumi Aizu
> Anriette Esterhuysen
> Parminder Singh
> Marilia Maciel
> Wolfgang Kleinwachter
>
>
> I leave it to the Co ordinators to forward these names to the CSTD
> Secretariat.
>
> Ian Peter (on behalf of Nomcom) - Jacqueline Morris, Hempal Shresthra,
> Gurumurthy Kasinathan and myself
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t



____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
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     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com  Tue Jan 11 04:07:33 2011
From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 21:07:33 +1200
Subject: [governance] Re: CSTD nominations
In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8A0764F@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
References: <C9519F8E.15322%ian.peter@ianpeter.com>
	<AANLkTim9y1hi90Z_W5NgQYPqyMp+EjszHUJtU+2D-BW7@mail.gmail.com>
	<2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8A0764F@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimm13tYxZw2pQC8Q5o0h4J4dC5Sur+bww_pOK=s@mail.gmail.com>

Congratulations to all of you! May 2011 be an awesome collaborative and
dynamic year!

Warm smiles from sunny Fiji,

Sala

2011/1/11 "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" <
wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de>

> Dear list
>
> Thank you very much for the trust you have in me to represent the IGC and
> civil society in the new "UNCSTD Working Group on IGF Improvement". I will
> certainly do my best and report back as intense as possible. And I (with the
> others from our group) would be also happy to use our list for virtual
> consultations on relevant issues. Please use me (and the other four IGC
> reps) as YOUR channel to the Working Group.
>
> With the insider knowledge I have from previous groups like WGIG or MAG I
> am well equipped to help newcomers from governments to get a better
> understanding what multistakeholderism means in Internet Governance and I am
> also prepared to say no, if needed.
>
> Best wishes
>
> wolfgang
>
> ________________________________
>
> Von: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org im Auftrag von Izumi AIZU
> Gesendet: Di 11.01.2011 01:51
> An: Ian Peter
> Cc: governance at lists.cpsr.org
> Betreff: [governance] Re: CSTD nominations
>
>
>
> Thank you very much NomCom and Ian in particular for nominating
> them - though unfortunately, we had to cut down to five and am sure
> it was not an easy work over the holiday season.
>
> I have just sent these names to he CSTD secretariat as they
> indicated that they need to receive it asap.
>
> Personally like Marilia, I thank your trust and will do my best to
> carry forward our cause into the new process.
>
> izumi
>
>
>
> 2011/1/11 Ian Peter <ian.peter at ianpeter.com>:
> > As requested by the coordinators, the Nomcom has cut the previous list of
> 10
> > names for civil society nominations for CSTD back to 5. The names
> selected
> > by the Nomcom are
> >
> > Izumi Aizu
> > Anriette Esterhuysen
> > Parminder Singh
> > Marilia Maciel
> > Wolfgang Kleinwachter
> >
> >
> > I leave it to the Co ordinators to forward these names to the CSTD
> > Secretariat.
> >
> > Ian Peter (on behalf of Nomcom) - Jacqueline Morris, Hempal Shresthra,
> > Gurumurthy Kasinathan and myself
> >
> >
> >
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
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____________________________________________________________
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From nyangkweagien at gmail.com  Tue Jan 11 05:21:20 2011
From: nyangkweagien at gmail.com (Nyangkwe Agien Aaron)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 11:21:20 +0100
Subject: [governance] Re: CSTD nominations
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimm13tYxZw2pQC8Q5o0h4J4dC5Sur+bww_pOK=s@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C9519F8E.15322%ian.peter@ianpeter.com>
	<AANLkTim9y1hi90Z_W5NgQYPqyMp+EjszHUJtU+2D-BW7@mail.gmail.com>
	<2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8A0764F@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
	<AANLkTimm13tYxZw2pQC8Q5o0h4J4dC5Sur+bww_pOK=s@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimpWd2XaR6zBe8ya6eDOg_rqSvXpsHx079VfHPw@mail.gmail.com>

Happy new year from Douala-Cameroon

Congratulations to Non-Com and wish you all the best

Aaron

On 1/11/11, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro
<salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote:
> Congratulations to all of you! May 2011 be an awesome collaborative and
> dynamic year!
>
> Warm smiles from sunny Fiji,
>
> Sala
>
> 2011/1/11 "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" <
> wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
>
>> Dear list
>>
>> Thank you very much for the trust you have in me to represent the IGC and
>> civil society in the new "UNCSTD Working Group on IGF Improvement". I will
>> certainly do my best and report back as intense as possible. And I (with
>> the
>> others from our group) would be also happy to use our list for virtual
>> consultations on relevant issues. Please use me (and the other four IGC
>> reps) as YOUR channel to the Working Group.
>>
>> With the insider knowledge I have from previous groups like WGIG or MAG I
>> am well equipped to help newcomers from governments to get a better
>> understanding what multistakeholderism means in Internet Governance and I
>> am
>> also prepared to say no, if needed.
>>
>> Best wishes
>>
>> wolfgang
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> Von: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org im Auftrag von Izumi AIZU
>> Gesendet: Di 11.01.2011 01:51
>> An: Ian Peter
>> Cc: governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> Betreff: [governance] Re: CSTD nominations
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you very much NomCom and Ian in particular for nominating
>> them - though unfortunately, we had to cut down to five and am sure
>> it was not an easy work over the holiday season.
>>
>> I have just sent these names to he CSTD secretariat as they
>> indicated that they need to receive it asap.
>>
>> Personally like Marilia, I thank your trust and will do my best to
>> carry forward our cause into the new process.
>>
>> izumi
>>
>>
>>
>> 2011/1/11 Ian Peter <ian.peter at ianpeter.com>:
>> > As requested by the coordinators, the Nomcom has cut the previous list
>> > of
>> 10
>> > names for civil society nominations for CSTD back to 5. The names
>> selected
>> > by the Nomcom are
>> >
>> > Izumi Aizu
>> > Anriette Esterhuysen
>> > Parminder Singh
>> > Marilia Maciel
>> > Wolfgang Kleinwachter
>> >
>> >
>> > I leave it to the Co ordinators to forward these names to the CSTD
>> > Secretariat.
>> >
>> > Ian Peter (on behalf of Nomcom) - Jacqueline Morris, Hempal Shresthra,
>> > Gurumurthy Kasinathan and myself
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>


-- 
Aaron Agien Nyangkwe
Journalist-OutCome Mapper
C/o
P.O.Box 5213
Douala-Cameroon

Tel. 70 56 00 28
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


From jlfullsack at orange.fr  Tue Jan 11 10:25:39 2011
From: jlfullsack at orange.fr (Jean-Louis FULLSACK)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 16:25:39 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [governance] Kenya's IGF 2011 Announcement News
Message-ID: <33299371.6300.1294759539804.JavaMail.www@wwinf1j17>

Dear membrers of the list

Exerpt from the IGF 2011 announcement :

<“We proudly look forward to hosting yet another significant Internet
governance process in Kenya,” says Alice Munyua, chair of the Kenya
organising committee.



As a member of CS committed in solidarity and cooperation, I'll be really "proud"  when the Africa's largest shanty town Kibera disappears and when its 1,4 million people, living in unworthy conditions, are integrated in the capital city as plain and recognized citizens of Nairobi. 

If we, as ICT, telecoms and Internet aware folks, can be helpful for this to happen, then only can we "proudly look forward".

That's my simple opinion 

Jean-Louis Fullsack
CSDPTT

> Message du 10/01/11 21:15
> De : "Fouad Bajwa" 
> A : governance at lists.cpsr.org
> Copie à : 
> Objet : [governance] Kenya's IGF 2011 Announcement News
> 
> Thanks to Tracy for sharing this bit of information:
> 
> Kenya’s global status in IT sector grows
> By JEVANS NYABIAGE jnyabienge at ke.nationmedia.com Posted Tuesday,
> January 4 2011 at 18:12
> Source: http://www.nation.co.ke/business/news/Kenyas%20global%20status%20in%20IT%20sector%20grows/-/1006/1083636/-/10nwbahz/-/
> 
> Kenya’s stature in the technology world is growing globally as it
> prepares to host a major international conference this year, the
> second in as many years.
> 
> Kenya will host the Sixth International Governance Forum in September
> at the United Nations offices in Gigiri, Nairobi.
> 
> Information PS Bitange Ndemo says the forum will share insights into
> the potential of the Internet and its governance.
> 
> The forum is a follow-up of the World Summit on the Information
> Society, which took place in Tunis in 2005.
> 
> “We proudly look forward to hosting yet another significant Internet
> governance process in Kenya,” says Alice Munyua, chair of the Kenya
> organising committee.
> 
> Last March, Nairobi hosted the 37th Internet Corporation for Assigned
> Names and Numbers global meeting.
> 
> At the time, the organisation’s chief executive and president Rod
> Beckstrom said Kenya had provided the best internet connection
> compared to the venues for all the previous meetings.
> 
> “We will use Nairobi as a benchmark for future meetings,” said Mr Beckstrom.
> 
> The five previous meetings of the forum were held in Athens, Greece,
> Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, Hyderabad, India, Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt and
> Vilnius, Lithuania.
> 
> Kenya’s information communication technology sector has grown by
> double digits, prompting the World Bank to project that the country is
> at a ‘tipping point’ for a possible economic boom.
> 
> Major IT innovations include crisis monitoring Ushahidi and global
> winner M-pesa, the mobile money transfer service.
> 
> There have also been huge investments in fibre optic cables and the
> proposed technology city.
> 
> -- 
> Regards.
> --------------------------
> Fouad Bajwa
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> governance at lists.cpsr.org
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> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
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> 
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> 
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From ca at cafonso.ca  Tue Jan 11 13:14:02 2011
From: ca at cafonso.ca (Carlos A. Afonso)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 16:14:02 -0200
Subject: [governance] CSTD nominations
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinG=TLmYDuv_K_qxweM0tDVRECNEa56KPGLgZPG@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C9519F8E.15322%ian.peter@ianpeter.com> <AANLkTinG=TLmYDuv_K_qxweM0tDVRECNEa56KPGLgZPG@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D2C9DEA.1080102@cafonso.ca>

Good to know we have at least one "new blood" in the NomCom. Congrats,
Marilia! :)

frt rgds

--c.a.

On 01/10/2011 08:54 PM, Marilia Maciel wrote:
> Many thanks for the NomCom for carrying out this very difficult task.
> And personally thank you for the trust. I will give my very best to
> fulfill this responsibility.
> 
> 
> Marília
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 4:47 PM, Ian Peter <ian.peter at ianpeter.com
> <mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com>> wrote:
> 
>     As requested by the coordinators, the Nomcom has cut the previous
>     list of 10
>     names for civil society nominations for CSTD back to 5. The names
>     selected
>     by the Nomcom are
> 
>     Izumi Aizu
>     Anriette Esterhuysen
>     Parminder Singh
>     Marilia Maciel
>     Wolfgang Kleinwachter
> 
> 
>     I leave it to the Co ordinators to forward these names to the CSTD
>     Secretariat.
> 
>     Ian Peter (on behalf of Nomcom) - Jacqueline Morris, Hempal Shresthra,
>     Gurumurthy Kasinathan and myself
> 
> 
>     ____________________________________________________________
>     You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>         governance at lists.cpsr.org <mailto:governance at lists.cpsr.org>
>     To be removed from the list, visit:
>         http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
>     For all other list information and functions, see:
>         http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
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>         http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
>     Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade
> FGV Direito Rio
> 
> Center for Technology and Society
> Getulio Vargas Foundation
> Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
____________________________________________________________
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From roland at internetpolicyagency.com  Tue Jan 11 14:46:30 2011
From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 19:46:30 +0000
Subject: [governance] CSTD nominations
In-Reply-To: <4D2C9DEA.1080102@cafonso.ca>
References: <C9519F8E.15322%ian.peter@ianpeter.com>
 <AANLkTinG=TLmYDuv_K_qxweM0tDVRECNEa56KPGLgZPG@mail.gmail.com>
 <4D2C9DEA.1080102@cafonso.ca>
Message-ID: <x3U3ZUnWOLLNFAT0@internetpolicyagency.com>

In message <4D2C9DEA.1080102 at cafonso.ca>, at 16:14:02 on Tue, 11 Jan 
2011, Carlos A. Afonso <ca at cafonso.ca> writes
>Good to know we have at least one "new blood" in the NomCom. Congrats,
>Marilia! :)

Agreed, and hopefully (given the accelerated timescale) only one trip to 
Geneva to cope with, which can possibly be combined with the next IGF 
Open Consultations. I look forward to the announcement of when the IGF 
Improvement WG will be meeting, whether it will have any remote 
observers, and so on.
-- 
Roland Perry
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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From goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au  Tue Jan 11 18:57:52 2011
From: goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au (David Goldstein)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 15:57:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [governance] Re: A warning
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=He=gjk-OmTZX7rsk8aZZ0-ko-fdNFchWWbALA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=He=gjk-OmTZX7rsk8aZZ0-ko-fdNFchWWbALA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <204473.74304.qm@web120506.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Izumi et al,

I'm not really concerned about a warning as the list is rather ineffective and 
barking up trees to no avail. It seems the group wants to "caucus", for example, 
a totally inappropriate term given my dictionary defines caucus as "(a  meeting 
of) a small group of people in a political party or  organisation who have a lot 
of influence, or who have similar interests." This list is not a political party 
and I haven't seen it yet to have any influence, let alone a lot of influence. 
Maybe people have a similar interest, but they have no influence. As my contacts 
in internet governance circles comment, this list is not taken seriously and 
won't be. I guess the people have similar interests...

So consider this my resignation and please delete me from the list. I'll miss 
posts from Milton, Wolfgang, Avri and a couple of other thoughtful people, but 
alas, it's not enough to sustain the pointless babble that this list goes on 
with.

It's a shame, this list has the potential to be an interesting discussion of 
ideas, but is so caught up with navel-gazing it achieves next to nothing.


David



----- Original Message ----
From: Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org>
To: David Goldstein <goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au>
Sent: Wed, 12 January, 2011 1:22:52 AM
Subject: A warning

Dear David,

As a co-coordinator of the IGC, I would like to remind you of our Charter,
http://www.igcaucus.org/charter
especially, on the "Posting Rules for the IGC" section.

Please read the rule and follow them. Some of the members expressed
the concern that you have repeated "uncivil" behavior. One recent example
is copied below.

As the coordinator, I am taking the first step defined in the Carter -
to warn you
privately.

As professionals please let's try to abide the rule mutually agreed so that
we could have more productive discussion and activities together.

Thank you for your kind consideration,

izumi



Begin forwarded message:

> From: David Goldstein <goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au>
> Date: January 9, 2011 7:51:55 AM EST
> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org, Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org>, Don Cameron 
><dg_cameron at bigpond.com>
> Subject: Re: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
> Reply-To: governance at lists.cpsr.org,David Goldstein 
><goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au>
>
> This process is absurd Jeremy and makes a mockery any sort of a democracy.
>
> It seems like empire building for the sake of empire building. Ten year old 
>kids couldn't make more of a mess of this in organising a school play club. 
>Actually, they'd do a much better job.
>
> Additionally, if "the current membership list is on the basis of those who 
>voted in the last election," what happens to those who did not vote for whatever 
>reason?
>
> David




____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


From dg_cameron at bigpond.com  Tue Jan 11 20:36:31 2011
From: dg_cameron at bigpond.com (Don Cameron)
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 11:36:31 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [governance] Re: A warning
Message-ID: <5148382.2238.1294796191971.JavaMail.prodapps@nskntweba01-app>

David given your post concluded with a very valid question that remains unanswered, along with the fact I openly share and support your concerns, I'll follow you out the door. Sadly this has been a rather pointless exercise. I assume we can unsub by a simple email to the list-serv? (majordomo?) - it's a good idea for list admins to include unsub instructions in email footers so people (like me) can unsub quietly rather than posting back to the list.

Don

------------------------------------------
From: David Goldstein <goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au>
To: iza at anr.org;
CC: governance at lists.cpsr.org;
Subject: [governance] Re: A warning
Izumi et al,
I'm not really concerned about a warning as the list is rather ineffective and
barking up trees to no avail. It seems the group wants to "caucus", for example,
a totally inappropriate term given my dictionary defines caucus as "(a meeting
of) a small group of people in a political party or organisation who have a lot
of influence, or who have similar interests." This list is not a political party
and I haven't seen it yet to have any influence, let alone a lot of influence.
Maybe people have a similar interest, but they have no influence. As my contacts
in internet governance circles comment, this list is not taken seriously and
won't be. I guess the people have similar interests...
So consider this my resignation and please delete me from the list. I'll miss
posts from Milton, Wolfgang, Avri and a couple of other thoughtful people, but
alas, it's not enough to sustain the pointless babble that this list goes on
with.
It's a shame, this list has the potential to be an interesting discussion of
ideas, but is so caught up with navel-gazing it achieves next to nothing.
David
----- Original Message ----
From: Izumi AIZU <iza at anr.org>
To: David Goldstein <goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au>
Sent: Wed, 12 January, 2011 1:22:52 AM
Subject: A warning
Dear David,
As a co-coordinator of the IGC, I would like to remind you of our Charter,
http://www.igcaucus.org/charter
especially, on the "Posting Rules for the IGC" section.
Please read the rule and follow them. Some of the members expressed
the concern that you have repeated "uncivil" behavior. One recent example
is copied below.
As the coordinator, I am taking the first step defined in the Carter -
to warn you
privately.
As professionals please let's try to abide the rule mutually agreed so that
we could have more productive discussion and activities together.
Thank you for your kind consideration,
izumi
Begin forwarded message:
> From: David Goldstein <goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au>
> Date: January 9, 2011 7:51:55 AM EST
> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org, Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org>, Don Cameron
><dg_cameron at bigpond.com>
> Subject: Re: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
> Reply-To: governance at lists.cpsr.org,David Goldstein
><goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au>
>
> This process is absurd Jeremy and makes a mockery any sort of a democracy.
>
> It seems like empire building for the sake of empire building. Ten year old
>kids couldn't make more of a mess of this in organising a school play club.
>Actually, they'd do a much better job.
>
> Additionally, if "the current membership list is on the basis of those who
>voted in the last election," what happens to those who did not vote for whatever
>reason?
>
> David
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
For all other list information and functions, see:
http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
http://www.igcaucus.org/
Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


From aizu at anr.org  Tue Jan 11 20:48:09 2011
From: aizu at anr.org (Izumi AIZU)
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 10:48:09 +0900
Subject: [governance] CSTD nominations
In-Reply-To: <x3U3ZUnWOLLNFAT0@internetpolicyagency.com>
References: <C9519F8E.15322%ian.peter@ianpeter.com> <AANLkTinG=TLmYDuv_K_qxweM0tDVRECNEa56KPGLgZPG@mail.gmail.com>
 <4D2C9DEA.1080102@cafonso.ca> <x3U3ZUnWOLLNFAT0@internetpolicyagency.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=JcuGrUSVZULbiky3eU2-uUn_ya1_VcJEgEU_L@mail.gmail.com>

Just to remind  that our nomination does not guarantee that
all five will be selected as the WG members from the civil
society. The Chair of CSTD will make the final selection.

IGC is not the sole representative of the CS, I would say.
Of course, that does not mean we have less credibility, though.

izumi

2011/1/12 Roland Perry <roland at internetpolicyagency.com>:
> In message <4D2C9DEA.1080102 at cafonso.ca>, at 16:14:02 on Tue, 11 Jan 2011,
> Carlos A. Afonso <ca at cafonso.ca> writes
>>
>> Good to know we have at least one "new blood" in the NomCom. Congrats,
>> Marilia! :)
>
> Agreed, and hopefully (given the accelerated timescale) only one trip to
> Geneva to cope with, which can possibly be combined with the next IGF Open
> Consultations. I look forward to the announcement of when the IGF
> Improvement WG will be meeting, whether it will have any remote observers,
> and so on.
> --
> Roland Perry
>
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


From charityg at diplomacy.edu  Wed Jan 12 00:38:48 2011
From: charityg at diplomacy.edu (Charity Gamboa)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 23:38:48 -0600
Subject: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
In-Reply-To: <DA78D592-C36E-41EB-B586-BAD199DE89CF@ciroap.org>
References: <DA78D592-C36E-41EB-B586-BAD199DE89CF@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTindykUoAVRBa7eJzbp3uiD1TLjDSbk89cbhwMX2@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jeremy,

Thank you for all your hard work. I managed to login to my account with no
problems.  Just a few questions/concerns and if I missed any discussions on
these concerns, my apologies for that foresight.

[1] Under LDAP Attributes in my account- I would not be able to update any
information on those fields?
[2] I agree with Marilia regarding a calendar, especially for any proposal
deadline that IGC is heading
[3] Can we have an area where upcoming events like ARIN, IGF
meetings/consultations, ICANN events and et al can be viewed on the home
page? Perhaps just some events that CS members can be aware of.
[4] Is there an archive of statements that IGC has submitted for the past
year(s)?

Thanks again.

Regards,
Charity

On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 4:36 AM, Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org> wrote:

> Phase 2 of the improvements that I've been undertaking to the IGC Web site
> are complete.  These include:
>
>
>    - A single interface for subscribing to the list and registering on the
>    Web site, which also adds your details to an IGC membership database
>    (subject to eligibility).  I have fixed the LDAP errors that some people
>    encountered when registering, and made that the correct information is now
>    listed for everyone.
>    - Everyone now has the ability to create personal blog posts<http://www.igcaucus.org/blog> directly
>    on the IGC Web site.  The latest headlines from these are listed on the
>    front page.  To post to your blog, just log in to the site and then click
>    "Create content" in the left hand column, then "Blog entry".
>    - There is a new Resources page <http://www.igcaucus.org/wiki> which is
>    editable as a wiki.  You can also upload documents there.  Instructions are
>    given on that page.
>    - Click on the name of any contributor to the site (when you are logged
>    in), and you can see their profile, including their organisation and Web
>    site (if provided). Later, the list of members will also be hyperlinked to
>    member profiles.
>    - There is a privacy policy <http://www.igcaucus.org/privacy>. Please
>    check this out to make sure that it is OK. If you have any changes to
>    suggest, please post them to the list.
>    - Besides the Twitter feed that I added last time, headlines from
>    external Internet governance blogs are now also included in a column on the
>    front page.
>
>
>    - I've moved the list of recent IGC statements to the centre column of
>    the Web site, to more clearly indicate that the centre contains official
>    resources and the right column contains feeds from the broader community.
>
>
> There's a lot more that could be done, but that will do for now. Some help
> is needed:
>
>
>    - First and most importantly, we need a deputy Web administrator, who
>    can share the load of building and maintaining our Web and database
>    software, and take over from me when I'm unavailable.  Some knowledge of Web
>    content management software (Drupal and/or Wordpress) is desirable, and
>    knowledge of databases (SQL and/or LDAP) and languages (HTML and PHP or
>    Perl) would be beneficial too.
>    - The Twitter and blog feeds could use with more diversity. At the
>    moment Twitter is just sourced from posts tagged "#igf".  If you have a
>    Twitter list that would be a better source of relevant posts than this, let
>    me know.  Also, if you have an Internet governance blog that should be added
>    to the feeds we are aggregating (a list of which is at
>    http://igf-online.net/gregarius), let me know.
>
>
> --
>
> *Jeremy Malcolm
> Project Coordinator*
> Consumers International
> Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
> Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
> Malaysia
> Tel: +60 3 7726 1599
> *
> Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers
> CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
> Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer
> groups from around the world
> for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to
> consumers. Register now!
> http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
> Twitter #CICongress
> *
>
> Read our email confidentiality notice<http://www.consumersinternational.org/email-confidentiality>.
> Don't print this email unless necessary.
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
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>
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>
>
>
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From jeremy at ciroap.org  Wed Jan 12 00:55:53 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 13:55:53 +0800
Subject: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTindykUoAVRBa7eJzbp3uiD1TLjDSbk89cbhwMX2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DA78D592-C36E-41EB-B586-BAD199DE89CF@ciroap.org>
	 <AANLkTindykUoAVRBa7eJzbp3uiD1TLjDSbk89cbhwMX2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1294811753.3176.1711.camel@terminus-Aspire-L320>

On Tue, 2011-01-11 at 23:38 -0600, Charity Gamboa wrote:
> [1] Under LDAP Attributes in my account- I would not be able to update
> any information on those fields? 

It works for me, but others report it doesn't work for them.  I will be
looking into it, so if it doesn't work for you please just wait.

> [2] I agree with Marilia regarding a calendar, especially for any
> proposal deadline that IGC is heading
> [3] Can we have an area where upcoming events like ARIN, IGF
> meetings/consultations, ICANN events and et al can be viewed on the
> home page? Perhaps just some events that CS members can be aware of. 

Yes, for sure.  This can be incorporated into the calendar system.

> [4] Is there an archive of statements that IGC has submitted for the
> past year(s)? 

Yes under "Statements" at the top or side of the page - actually, this
part hasn't changed.

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia-Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong

Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer
groups from around the world for four days of debate and discussion on
the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress

Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless
necessary.
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From shailam at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 12 01:02:54 2011
From: shailam at yahoo.com (shaila mistry)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 22:02:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username
In-Reply-To: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org>
References: <E61F032C-9A08-431D-A3AA-2372C3442EEB@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <445826.86055.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Hi Jeremy
I am receiving a message that my user name is not recognized, when I have just 
registered it. I also tried with my email address and pasted the long password 
sent to me.
Can you please assist me.
Regards
Shaila 

Life is too short ....challenge the rules
Forgive quickly ... love truly ...and tenderly
Laugh constantly.....and never stop dreaming! 




________________________________
From: Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org>
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
Sent: Sun, January 2, 2011 3:01:01 AM
Subject: [governance] New membership database: choose your own username


This is long, but important, so please read it.
Before the next poll or election is called, anyone who wishes to participate 
will have to have an account in the new database that I have created to record 
IGC membership.  All those who voted in the last election will also be entered 
into this database.

We are doing this because, until now, there has been no proper IGC membership 
list, other than the list of subscribers to the governance mailing list (which 
contains many non-member lurkers, duplicate subscriptions and some defunct 
accounts).

The advantages of a maintaining a centralised database is that we can use a 
single list of members (and potential members) for purposes including:

	* mailing list subscription
	* editing content on the IGC Web site
	* determining eligibility to vote for coordination elections and charter 
amendments

Also, we will finally be able to associate names and (optionally) organisations 
with email addresses.  Our inability to do this in the past has been a problem 
for the coordinators.

I will be entering existing members into this database shortly, but I am first 
giving everyone the opportunity to create their own database entry so that they 
can choose their own username.  If you don't choose your own username, you will 
end up with a username like "john.doe".  The username won't be used on the 
mailing list, but will be associated with any content you may create on our Web 
site, and possibly for other purposes in the future.  

To create your own entry in the IGC membership database please visit this new 
page of our Web site:

http://www.igcaucus.org/user/register

When registering, please use the same email address with which you are 
subscribed to the governance list.  This is important because it will enable me 
to flag you as an official IGC member (ie. one who voted in the last coordinator 
elections), if indeed you are one.  (If not, please register anyway - especially 
if you intend to vote at the next coordinator elections.)

Visiting the page above is also the way, from now on, to subscribe to or 
unsubscribe from the governance mailing list.  (Unfortunately due to software 
limitations, your password for the mailing list Web site won't be automatically 
set to the one you choose when creating your database entry - you'll need to set 
it again when logging in there, or use any password you may have had there 
before.)

Existing subscribers to the governance mailing list who have not voted in the 
list election will not automatically be added to the database.  So, if you did 
not vote but are nonetheless an active participant, you should register yourself 
using the link above.  If you don't, your mailing list subscription won't be 
touched, but you won't have access to participate in polls or to add content to 
our Web site.

Thanks, and please let me know if you have any questions.  You have one month 
from now to create your own database entry if you wish, before I will create 
entries for all the missing members.

PS. Since this email is long enough already, I'll be writing separately about 
some of the other "phase 2" improvements to our Web site.

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599
Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups 
from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to 
consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary. 
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To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


From parminder at itforchange.net  Wed Jan 12 23:44:18 2011
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 10:14:18 +0530
Subject: [governance] CSTD nominations
In-Reply-To: <C9519F8E.15322%ian.peter@ianpeter.com>
References: <C9519F8E.15322%ian.peter@ianpeter.com>
Message-ID: <4D2E8322.90605@itforchange.net>


Thanks to the nomcom for the trust, and will do my best.....

On a connected note, it will be good if the list discusses IGF 
improvements now.

Parminder

Ian Peter wrote:
> As requested by the coordinators, the Nomcom has cut the previous list of 10
> names for civil society nominations for CSTD back to 5. The names selected
> by the Nomcom are
>
> Izumi Aizu
> Anriette Esterhuysen
> Parminder Singh
> Marilia Maciel
> Wolfgang Kleinwachter
>
>
> I leave it to the Co ordinators to forward these names to the CSTD
> Secretariat.
>
> Ian Peter (on behalf of Nomcom) - Jacqueline Morris, Hempal Shresthra,
> Gurumurthy Kasinathan and myself
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>   

-- 
PK

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To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


From jeremy at ciroap.org  Thu Jan 13 02:06:42 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 15:06:42 +0800
Subject: [governance] IGF improvements and proposals for the programme of
 the 2011 meeting
Message-ID: <1294902402.25480.696.camel@terminus-Aspire-L320>

I would like us to move towards preparing a submission about the
programme of the 2011 IGF meeting.  Simultaneously, we can discuss IGF
improvements, which if minor could go into that submission, but
otherwise can be input for our new CSTD working group on the IGF.

This is an exercise that we have, of course, gone through before.  So it
is useful for us to look at some previous submissions on the programme
of the IGF and on improvements, and see what we can simply rewrite and
reuse.  Here are relevant links:

PROGRAMME:

http://www.igcaucus.org/node/8 (Hyderabad)
http://www.igcaucus.org/node/5 (Sharm)
http://www.igcaucus.org/node/26 (Sharm)
http://www.igcaucus.org/node/32 (Sharm)
http://www.igcaucus.org/node/34 (Vilnius)

IMPROVEMENTS:

http://www.igcaucus.org/node/6 (funding, deeper discussion, WGs)
http://www.igcaucus.org/node/7 (format improvements, IGF as town-hall)
http://www.igcaucus.org/node/9 (MAG improvements)
http://www.igcaucus.org/node/30 (MAG, funding, intersessional work)
http://www.igcaucus.org/node/33 (MAG, outputs, intersessional work)
http://www.igcaucus.org/node/41 (MAG improvements, links from IGF)
http://www.igcaucus.org/node/45 (outputs, difficult issues, virtual IGF)

I would suggest that people go through these and pick out the highlights
that they would like to reiterate... as well, of course, as contributing
any new points in light of the changed landscape since last November.

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia-Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong

Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer
groups from around the world for four days of debate and discussion on
the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress

Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless
necessary.
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From anriette at apc.org  Thu Jan 13 02:44:25 2011
From: anriette at apc.org (Anriette Esterhuysen)
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 09:44:25 +0200
Subject: [governance] CSTD nominations
In-Reply-To: <4D2E8322.90605@itforchange.net>
References: <C9519F8E.15322%ian.peter@ianpeter.com> <4D2E8322.90605@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <4D2EAD59.4090806@apc.org>

Dear all

Also thanks from me to the nomcom for their confidence in us.

After the really demanding CSTD meeting we attended on 17 December we 
certainly have a challenge ahead of us.

The issue of civil society and other stakeholder participation in UN 
processes will need to taken up on many fronts, including at national 
level. But the more coordinated we are in taking this on, the better.

I see that Jeremy has started a thread on IGF improvements.

What I would find very helpful from the coordinators, is if they could 
do a summary of the proposals for how to deal with the decisions of the 
CSTD to make the IGF improvement working group intergovernmental, with 
participation from other stakeholders rather than full inclusion.

There were masses of messages, and proposals for joint actions, parallel 
processes etc.

Having a summary of those proposals would be very helpful.

Thanks

Anriette


On 13/01/11 06:44, parminder wrote:
>
> Thanks to the nomcom for the trust, and will do my best.....
>
> On a connected note, it will be good if the list discusses IGF 
> improvements now.
>
> Parminder
>
> Ian Peter wrote:
>> As requested by the coordinators, the Nomcom has cut the previous list of 10
>> names for civil society nominations for CSTD back to 5. The names selected
>> by the Nomcom are
>>
>> Izumi Aizu
>> Anriette Esterhuysen
>> Parminder Singh
>> Marilia Maciel
>> Wolfgang Kleinwachter
>>
>>
>> I leave it to the Co ordinators to forward these names to the CSTD
>> Secretariat.
>>
>> Ian Peter (on behalf of Nomcom) - Jacqueline Morris, Hempal Shresthra,
>> Gurumurthy Kasinathan and myself
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>       governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>       http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>       http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>       http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email:http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>>    
>
> -- 
> PK

-- 
------------------------------------------------------
anriette esterhuysen anriette at apc.org
executive director
association for progressive communications
www.apc.org

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____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


From roland at internetpolicyagency.com  Thu Jan 13 03:06:44 2011
From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry)
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 08:06:44 +0000
Subject: [governance] CSTD WG - topics for improvement
In-Reply-To: <4D2E8322.90605@itforchange.net>
References: <C9519F8E.15322%ian.peter@ianpeter.com>
 <4D2E8322.90605@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <b$09bsFUKrLNFAXo@internetpolicyagency.com>

In message <4D2E8322.90605 at itforchange.net>, at 10:14:18 on Thu, 13 Jan 
2011, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> writes

> it will be good if the list discusses IGF improvements now

I was about to make a similar suggestion. There's not long before the 
CSTD WG meeting. Here's the summary of suggestions put to CSTD already:

http://www.unctad.info/upload/CSTD-IGF/IGFsummary.pdf

My own inclination is to concentrate on questions 7 & 8, which are about 
"the IGF Process" (note that this appears to be disjoint from "the 
IGF"). Whatever the long term political imperatives, if the right people 
can't get to the meetings and participate effectively, isn't it all a 
waste of time?
-- 
Roland Perry
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
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From aizu at anr.org  Thu Jan 13 05:00:27 2011
From: aizu at anr.org (Izumi AIZU)
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 19:00:27 +0900
Subject: [governance] CSTD WG - topics for improvement
In-Reply-To: <b$09bsFUKrLNFAXo@internetpolicyagency.com>
References: <C9519F8E.15322%ian.peter@ianpeter.com> <4D2E8322.90605@itforchange.net>
 <b$09bsFUKrLNFAXo@internetpolicyagency.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikn7qM1rV9UYKvUv=EEjV1ptBh-QKhe3V09ciat@mail.gmail.com>

I was also thinking in the similar way, and we need to prepare
a statement (or more) for the February meeting.

If there is a volunteer(s) for preparing the draft, I would appreciate.
Of course, myself and Jeremy will work together.

izumi

2011/1/13 Roland Perry <roland at internetpolicyagency.com>:
> In message <4D2E8322.90605 at itforchange.net>, at 10:14:18 on Thu, 13 Jan
> 2011, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> writes
>
>> it will be good if the list discusses IGF improvements now
>
> I was about to make a similar suggestion. There's not long before the CSTD
> WG meeting. Here's the summary of suggestions put to CSTD already:
>
> http://www.unctad.info/upload/CSTD-IGF/IGFsummary.pdf
>
> My own inclination is to concentrate on questions 7 & 8, which are about
> "the IGF Process" (note that this appears to be disjoint from "the IGF").
> Whatever the long term political imperatives, if the right people can't get
> to the meetings and participate effectively, isn't it all a waste of time?
> --
> Roland Perry
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>    governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>    http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>



-- 
                        >> Izumi Aizu <<

          Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo

           Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita,
                                  Japan
                                 * * * * *
           << Writing the Future of the History >>
                                www.anr.org
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
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     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com  Thu Jan 13 18:19:04 2011
From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro)
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 11:19:04 +1200
Subject: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site
In-Reply-To: <1294811753.3176.1711.camel@terminus-Aspire-L320>
References: <DA78D592-C36E-41EB-B586-BAD199DE89CF@ciroap.org>
	<AANLkTindykUoAVRBa7eJzbp3uiD1TLjDSbk89cbhwMX2@mail.gmail.com>
	<1294811753.3176.1711.camel@terminus-Aspire-L320>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=c3C5zgaKoTmM=txVLBz4Q_BagfzUty+7Lwjn5@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Jeremy,

Thanks, you are doing a great job. I can imagine the 9/10 of the iceberg,
the unseen portion.

:) :)

Sala

On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 6:55 PM, Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org> wrote:

> On Tue, 2011-01-11 at 23:38 -0600, Charity Gamboa wrote:
> > [1] Under LDAP Attributes in my account- I would not be able to update
> > any information on those fields?
>
> It works for me, but others report it doesn't work for them.  I will be
> looking into it, so if it doesn't work for you please just wait.
>
> > [2] I agree with Marilia regarding a calendar, especially for any
> > proposal deadline that IGC is heading
> > [3] Can we have an area where upcoming events like ARIN, IGF
> > meetings/consultations, ICANN events and et al can be viewed on the
> > home page? Perhaps just some events that CS members can be aware of.
>
> Yes, for sure.  This can be incorporated into the calendar system.
>
> > [4] Is there an archive of statements that IGC has submitted for the
> > past year(s)?
>
> Yes under "Statements" at the top or side of the page - actually, this
> part hasn't changed.
>
> --
>  Jeremy Malcolm
> Project Coordinator
> Consumers International
> Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia-Pacific and the Middle East
> Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
> Malaysia
> Tel: +60 3 7726 1599
>
> Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers
> CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
>
> Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer
> groups from around the world for four days of debate and discussion on
> the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
> http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
>
> Twitter #CICongress
>
> Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless
> necessary.
>
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From parminder at itforchange.net  Fri Jan 14 05:20:55 2011
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 15:50:55 +0530
Subject: [governance] Agenda for IGF Nairobi - IGC proposals
In-Reply-To: <1294902402.25480.696.camel@terminus-Aspire-L320>
References: <1294902402.25480.696.camel@terminus-Aspire-L320>
Message-ID: <4D302387.5070203@itforchange.net>

Hi Jeremy

I think we should two separate threads for the next IGF's agenda, which 
hopefully will be taken up in the Feb MAG meeting, and for our inputs 
into the WG on IGF improvements. Both are very distinct issues and 
separately quite important . So excuse me to have this thread on 'agenda 
for IGF Nairobi'.

I am particularly eager to get this discussion going, because I feel 
that IGC should be doing much more on substantive issues, and its almost 
singular focus on process issues is what has kept it insulated from much 
of the civil society outside the IG realm, which compromises its 
legitimacy.

In middle of the hot discussions on composition of the WG on IGF 
improvements, Sala posted an email on the (globally) historic FCC 
decision on network neutrality. While there are some good points there, 
there has been a sellout on excluding mobile Internet from regulations 
disallowing pay-for-priority. (To read this in the context of my earielr 
emails pointing to how mobile Internet in India is already breaching NN 
boundaries.)

This FC decision has the potential of splitting up the Internet into the 
open fixed line variety and corporate content dominated mobile Internet. 
Why should there be two kinds of Internet? Why do freedoms and rights 
count on one kind and are not so important on the mobile Internet? What 
does this mean for developing countries where mobile is slated to become 
the by far the dominant platform for Internet?

I also consider it very significant that it is perhaps the first time 
ever in any substantial policy matter of such huge consequence that the 
policy framework was largely written up as a result of negotiations 
between two largest corporate players in the area - google and verizon - 
and then the government rubber stamped it. If this the new global 
governance model we are moving towards? I keep getting this picture in 
my mind of our health policy frameworks soon being written by drug 
companies and health insurance companies, and maybe the large private 
hospital chains, if they are big enough, before plaint governments 
rubber stamp it. That is exactly what happened in the present instance 
vis a vis the new communication infrastructure of the Internet that came 
with such egalitarian promises.

Anyway back to the topic,

The next IGF just must take up 'Network Neutrality' or in fact ' Mobile 
Network Neutrality' as its key plenary theme. Otherwise IGF and the real 
world IG would be two very different worlds.

It should also continue with the plenary topic - 'development agenda for IG'

And I propose a third topic

'Cross border Issues and implications of IG'

CoE is discussing it, no reason why IGF should not.

Parminder










Jeremy Malcolm wrote:
> I would like us to move towards preparing a submission about the
> programme of the 2011 IGF meeting.  Simultaneously, we can discuss IGF
> improvements, which if minor could go into that submission, but
> otherwise can be input for our new CSTD working group on the IGF.
>
> This is an exercise that we have, of course, gone through before.  So it
> is useful for us to look at some previous submissions on the programme
> of the IGF and on improvements, and see what we can simply rewrite and
> reuse.  Here are relevant links:
>
> PROGRAMME:
>
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/8 (Hyderabad)
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/5 (Sharm)
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/26 (Sharm)
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/32 (Sharm)
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/34 (Vilnius)
>
> IMPROVEMENTS:
>
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/6 (funding, deeper discussion, WGs)
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/7 (format improvements, IGF as town-hall)
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/9 (MAG improvements)
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/30 (MAG, funding, intersessional work)
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/33 (MAG, outputs, intersessional work)
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/41 (MAG improvements, links from IGF)
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/45 (outputs, difficult issues, virtual IGF)
>
> I would suggest that people go through these and pick out the highlights
> that they would like to reiterate... as well, of course, as contributing
> any new points in light of the changed landscape since last November.
>
>   

-- 
PK

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From parminder at itforchange.net  Fri Jan 14 07:17:31 2011
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 17:47:31 +0530
Subject: [Fwd: [governance] Net Neutrality Decision]
Message-ID: <4D303EDB.7090806@itforchange.net>

This is the news item about the network neutrality decision of Federal 
Communications Commission of the US that I referred to in my previous 
email.


<http://www.fcc.gov/>


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	[governance] Net Neutrality Decision
Date: 	Wed, 22 Dec 2010 08:45:38 +1200
From: 	Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com>
Reply-To: 	governance at lists.cpsr.org,"Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" 
<salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com>
To: 	governance at lists.cpsr.org



Check out the Headlines within the FCC website on Net Neutrality
 
http://www.fcc.gov/
 
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-technology/us-regulators-approve-net-neutrality-20101222-194n6.html

-- 
Salanieta Tudrau Tamanikaiwaimaro
P.O.Box 17862
Suva
Fiji Islands

Cell: +679 9982851
Alternate Email: s.tamanikaiwaimaro at tfl.com.fj 
<mailto:s.tamanikaiwaimaro at tfl.com.fj>

"Wisdom is far better than riches."

-- 
PK

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From roland at internetpolicyagency.com  Fri Jan 14 15:22:16 2011
From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry)
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 20:22:16 +0000
Subject: [governance] Advance notice of the need to move this list
In-Reply-To: <1294714245.3176.586.camel@terminus-Aspire-L320>
References: <1294714245.3176.586.camel@terminus-Aspire-L320>
Message-ID: <oYIBSPa4BLMNFAKz@internetpolicyagency.com>

In message <1294714245.3176.586.camel at terminus-Aspire-L320>, at 10:50:45 
on Tue, 11 Jan 2011, Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org> writes
>This is to seek feedback on options for moving the IGC governance
>mailing list, because the CPSR which has hosted our list is no longer
>operating and cannot maintain its free service to us indefinitely.
>There is no immediate urgency, because we have about two years before we
>have to vacate the cpsr.org mailing list server, but it is best to plan
>now.
>
>I can see three options.
>
>1. Asking another like-minded organisation to host it.  I have checked
>with the APC who host our Web site, and they say that their mailing list
>server runs different software (Mailman), so it would be difficult and
>time-consuming to try to shift our archives over to their server.
>
>2. Move our mailing list to the igf-online.net server that hosts the IGF
>Community Site, which is where I have created the subsidiary mailing
>lists for our IGC working groups.  It runs the same software that we use
>now, so migrating the list with archives intact would be fairly easy.
>
>3. The other option is that we raise some money and hire our own
>dedicated virtual server.  We could, in that case, move our Web site and
>database over there too.
>
>I would recommend option 2.  The igf-online.net server was originally
>established for the Rio IGF meeting in 2007 as the successor to the
>earlier IGF Community Site at igf2006.info that I co-developed.  It is
>currently hosted by my employer Consumers International.

In order to avoid going through this whole thing again in another couple 
of years, can CI give a commitment that future co-ordinators (after your 
term has ended) will be given the necessary admin privileges to the 
site, and they'll continue to support the hosting platform? It's 
difficult being generous, and we don't want to appear ungrateful, but 
there's also a need for that continuity and stability.

It might also be a good time to rename the website and list to give a 
co-ordinated url. The caucus discusses more than the IGF.
-- 
Roland Perry
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From fm-lists at st-kilda.org  Fri Jan 14 15:52:25 2011
From: fm-lists at st-kilda.org (Fearghas McKay)
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 20:52:25 +0000
Subject: [governance] Advance notice of the need to move this list
In-Reply-To: <oYIBSPa4BLMNFAKz@internetpolicyagency.com>
References: <1294714245.3176.586.camel@terminus-Aspire-L320> <oYIBSPa4BLMNFAKz@internetpolicyagency.com>
Message-ID: <2F5F1E29-4A4C-4A57-A8E7-C16131CD4AC7@st-kilda.org>


On 14 Jan 2011, at 20:22, Roland Perry wrote:

> In order to avoid going through this whole thing again in another couple of years, can CI give a commitment that future co-ordinators (after your term has ended) will be given the necessary admin privileges to the site, and they'll continue to support the hosting platform? It's difficult being generous, and we don't want to appear ungrateful, but there's also a need for that continuity and stability.
> 

+1

Although that could be a written rolling commitment that they will give x months notice, where  x > 6 months minimum. Or such a number as the IGC feels is appropriate for stability. 


> It might also be a good time to rename the website and list to give a co-ordinated url. The caucus discusses more than the IGF.

A general tidying up would be a positive thing to do.

	f

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From lmcknigh at syr.edu  Fri Jan 14 16:14:24 2011
From: lmcknigh at syr.edu (Lee W McKnight)
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 16:14:24 -0500
Subject: [governance] Advance notice of the need to move this list
In-Reply-To: <2F5F1E29-4A4C-4A57-A8E7-C16131CD4AC7@st-kilda.org>
References: <1294714245.3176.586.camel@terminus-Aspire-L320>
 <oYIBSPa4BLMNFAKz@internetpolicyagency.com>,<2F5F1E29-4A4C-4A57-A8E7-C16131CD4AC7@st-kilda.org>
Message-ID: <93F4C2F3D19A03439EAC16D47C591DDE03300070CA@suex07-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu>

+/- 1

Website name can be whatever as far as I am concerned if for branding reaons folks want to get creative.

But confounding IGC list with IGF isn't our problem, or fault, since we were here first. And always have spoken of more -ig - than happens at IGF.

Lee
________________________________________
From: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org [governance-request at lists.cpsr.org] On Behalf Of Fearghas McKay [fm-lists at st-kilda.org]
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 3:52 PM
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
Subject: Re: [governance] Advance notice of the need to move this list

On 14 Jan 2011, at 20:22, Roland Perry wrote:

> In order to avoid going through this whole thing again in another couple of years, can CI give a commitment that future co-ordinators (after your term has ended) will be given the necessary admin privileges to the site, and they'll continue to support the hosting platform? It's difficult being generous, and we don't want to appear ungrateful, but there's also a need for that continuity and stability.
>

+1

Although that could be a written rolling commitment that they will give x months notice, where  x > 6 months minimum. Or such a number as the IGC feels is appropriate for stability.


> It might also be a good time to rename the website and list to give a co-ordinated url. The caucus discusses more than the IGF.

A general tidying up would be a positive thing to do.

        f

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From fm-lists at st-kilda.org  Fri Jan 14 16:27:19 2011
From: fm-lists at st-kilda.org (Fearghas McKay)
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 21:27:19 +0000
Subject: [governance] Advance notice of the need to move this list
In-Reply-To: <93F4C2F3D19A03439EAC16D47C591DDE03300070CA@suex07-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu>
References: <1294714245.3176.586.camel@terminus-Aspire-L320> <oYIBSPa4BLMNFAKz@internetpolicyagency.com>,<2F5F1E29-4A4C-4A57-A8E7-C16131CD4AC7@st-kilda.org> <93F4C2F3D19A03439EAC16D47C591DDE03300070CA@suex07-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <F6BBEABE-96A2-4244-B8FC-7384D0A7848C@st-kilda.org>


On 14 Jan 2011, at 21:14, Lee W McKnight wrote:

> But confounding IGC list with IGF isn't our problem, or fault, since we were here first. And always have spoken of more -ig - than happens at IGF.

My tidying up comment was more about consistency for outsiders and newcomers to the the community - keep the message simple :-) 

	f

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From avri at acm.org  Fri Jan 14 16:44:04 2011
From: avri at acm.org (Avri Doria)
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 16:44:04 -0500
Subject: [governance] Advance notice of the need to move this list
In-Reply-To: <oYIBSPa4BLMNFAKz@internetpolicyagency.com>
References: <1294714245.3176.586.camel@terminus-Aspire-L320> <oYIBSPa4BLMNFAKz@internetpolicyagency.com>
Message-ID: <AEA33CE2-9D39-47FD-8184-AB2C62D5144F@acm.org>

hi,

Assuming there is willingness, it is easy to get www.igcaucus.org to point to anything we want it to point to.

or info.igcaucus.org
or wiki.igcaucus.org
or ...

I still support this name (have igcaucus.net as well - unused), tiny contribution that it requires, and am willing to have it point anywhere the caucus decides it should point.

Things do not have to be on the same site to have the same branding.  Though  of course it does help for coordinating files.  As for server space, i think it would be good to have funding to have our own.  In lieu of that, there are no guarantees of permanence, and that is probably not much guarantee either.
 

a.

On 14 Jan 2011, at 15:22, Roland Perry wrote:

> It might also be a good time to rename the website and list to give a co-ordinated url. The caucus discusses more than the IGF.

____________________________________________________________
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From roland at internetpolicyagency.com  Fri Jan 14 17:14:07 2011
From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry)
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 22:14:07 +0000
Subject: [governance] Advance notice of the need to move this list
In-Reply-To: <93F4C2F3D19A03439EAC16D47C591DDE03300070CA@suex07-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu>
References: <1294714245.3176.586.camel@terminus-Aspire-L320>
 <oYIBSPa4BLMNFAKz@internetpolicyagency.com>
 <2F5F1E29-4A4C-4A57-A8E7-C16131CD4AC7@st-kilda.org>
 <93F4C2F3D19A03439EAC16D47C591DDE03300070CA@suex07-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <0uNmPSdvqMMNFAay@internetpolicyagency.com>

In message 
<93F4C2F3D19A03439EAC16D47C591DDE03300070CA at suex07-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu>, 
at 16:14:24 on Fri, 14 Jan 2011, Lee W McKnight <lmcknigh at syr.edu> 
writes

>Website name can be whatever as far as I am concerned if for branding
>reaons folks want to get creative.

Consistency (and thus ease of use) is the main reason. No new brands 
required.

>But confounding IGC list with IGF isn't our problem, or fault, since we 
>were here first. And always have spoken of more -ig - than happens at 
>IGF.

www.IGcaucus.org is perfect. It's having the future mailing list
at igf-online.net which should perhaps be changed to something like 
governance at IGcaucus.org (+ charter@ etc).
-- 
Roland Perry
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From mariliamaciel at gmail.com  Fri Jan 14 21:51:47 2011
From: mariliamaciel at gmail.com (Marilia Maciel)
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 00:51:47 -0200
Subject: [governance] Agenda for IGF Nairobi - IGC proposals
In-Reply-To: <4D302387.5070203@itforchange.net>
References: <1294902402.25480.696.camel@terminus-Aspire-L320>
	<4D302387.5070203@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimhvqwDVZW+uZp-owwjLbcO=L-QacKheu9t4U1P@mail.gmail.com>

I am in an airport with limited time and cannot develop the idea right now,
but I really think that the international context makes it tremedously
important to reinforce A2K debate.

I would like to propose that we discuss the impact of the current
enforcement agenda of IPRs on Access in general and on A2K, more
specifically . This is connected to network neutrality, and there are
several important issues that could fall under this theme, such as the role
of intermediaries, liability, etc. Politically, this would help to reinforce
a positive agenda on IPRs and a development agenda in the IGF

More on that as soon as I have connection again.

Marilia

On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 8:20 AM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>wrote:

>  Hi Jeremy
>
> I think we should two separate threads for the next IGF's agenda, which
> hopefully will be taken up in the Feb MAG meeting, and for our inputs into
> the WG on IGF improvements. Both are very distinct issues and separately
> quite important . So excuse me to have this thread on 'agenda for IGF
> Nairobi'.
>
> I am particularly eager to get this discussion going, because I feel that
> IGC should be doing much more on substantive issues, and its almost singular
> focus on process issues is what has kept it insulated from much of the civil
> society outside the IG realm, which compromises its legitimacy.
>
> In middle of the hot discussions on composition of the WG on IGF
> improvements, Sala posted an email on the (globally) historic FCC decision
> on network neutrality. While there are some good points there, there has
> been a sellout on excluding mobile Internet from regulations disallowing
> pay-for-priority. (To read this in the context of my earielr emails pointing
> to how mobile Internet in India is already breaching NN boundaries.)
>
> This FC decision has the potential of splitting up the Internet into the
> open fixed line variety and corporate content dominated mobile Internet. Why
> should there be two kinds of Internet? Why do freedoms and rights count on
> one kind and are not so important on the mobile Internet? What does this
> mean for developing countries where mobile is slated to become the by far
> the dominant platform for Internet?
>
> I also consider it very significant that it is perhaps the first time ever
> in any substantial policy matter of such huge consequence that the policy
> framework was largely written up as a result of negotiations between two
> largest corporate players in the area - google and verizon - and then the
> government rubber stamped it. If this the new global governance model we are
> moving towards? I keep getting this picture in my mind of our health policy
> frameworks soon being written by drug companies and health insurance
> companies, and maybe the large private hospital chains, if they are big
> enough, before plaint governments rubber stamp it. That is exactly what
> happened in the present instance vis a vis the new communication
> infrastructure of the Internet that came with such egalitarian promises.
>
> Anyway back to the topic,
>
> The next IGF just must take up 'Network Neutrality' or in fact ' Mobile
> Network Neutrality' as its key plenary theme. Otherwise IGF and the real
> world IG would be two very different worlds.
>
> It should also continue with the plenary topic - 'development agenda for
> IG'
>
> And I propose a third topic
>
> 'Cross border Issues and implications of IG'
>
> CoE is discussing it, no reason why IGF should not.
>
> Parminder
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jeremy Malcolm wrote:
>
> I would like us to move towards preparing a submission about the
> programme of the 2011 IGF meeting.  Simultaneously, we can discuss IGF
> improvements, which if minor could go into that submission, but
> otherwise can be input for our new CSTD working group on the IGF.
>
> This is an exercise that we have, of course, gone through before.  So it
> is useful for us to look at some previous submissions on the programme
> of the IGF and on improvements, and see what we can simply rewrite and
> reuse.  Here are relevant links:
>
> PROGRAMME:
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/8 (Hyderabad)http://www.igcaucus.org/node/5 (Sharm)http://www.igcaucus.org/node/26 (Sharm)http://www.igcaucus.org/node/32 (Sharm)http://www.igcaucus.org/node/34 (Vilnius)
>
> IMPROVEMENTS:
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/6 (funding, deeper discussion, WGs)http://www.igcaucus.org/node/7 (format improvements, IGF as town-hall)http://www.igcaucus.org/node/9 (MAG improvements)http://www.igcaucus.org/node/30 (MAG, funding, intersessional work)http://www.igcaucus.org/node/33 (MAG, outputs, intersessional work)http://www.igcaucus.org/node/41 (MAG improvements, links from IGF)http://www.igcaucus.org/node/45 (outputs, difficult issues, virtual IGF)
>
> I would suggest that people go through these and pick out the highlights
> that they would like to reiterate... as well, of course, as contributing
> any new points in light of the changed landscape since last November.
>
>
>
>
> --
> PK
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
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>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
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>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>


-- 
Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade
FGV Direito Rio

Center for Technology and Society
Getulio Vargas Foundation
Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
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From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com  Fri Jan 14 22:20:25 2011
From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro)
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 15:20:25 +1200
Subject: [governance] Agenda for IGF Nairobi - IGC proposals
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimhvqwDVZW+uZp-owwjLbcO=L-QacKheu9t4U1P@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1294902402.25480.696.camel@terminus-Aspire-L320>
	<4D302387.5070203@itforchange.net>
	<AANLkTimhvqwDVZW+uZp-owwjLbcO=L-QacKheu9t4U1P@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimW7AWiYOkcda4uN4r3P6BPQC7omb-yCK32VKyn@mail.gmail.com>

*Cross Border Issues and its Implications of Internet Governance* is key in
my view and would be a great topic:-

The regulatory reforms happening in certain contexts has implications beyond
its borders and raise serious governance issues. Whilst these are subject to
competing variables (different for each national context/jurisdiction)
whether they are for LDCs competing priorities, maturity (independence) of
regulatory regimes, conflicting domestic laws (legacy of most post colonial
states at least in the ACP - although some are coming out of it), political
will etc etc, at the end of the day, no one is discussing (if I am wrong, I
would be glad to be wrong and directed to the forum where these are being
discussed) the philosophical underpinnings and foundations that need to
emerge in a world where something like the internet transcends boundaries
and national jurisdictions. What is its impact on developing countries?

I will throw in only one single scenario (this is one dimensional):

If packets were commercialised, what is to stop a powerful multinational
from signing and executing a deal with an ISPs from developing worlds for
the prioritisation of certain packets and where regulatory regimes would not
even be the wiser and someone could chalk it down to something else. In a
world where often the law is slow to evolve and multinationals and corporate
entities would often play and wait for the law to catch up whilst they make
their quick buck at the expense of the consumer.

Kind Regards,
Sala

On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 3:51 PM, Marilia Maciel <mariliamaciel at gmail.com>wrote:

> I am in an airport with limited time and cannot develop the idea right now,
> but I really think that the international context makes it tremedously
> important to reinforce A2K debate.
>
> I would like to propose that we discuss the impact of the current
> enforcement agenda of IPRs on Access in general and on A2K, more
> specifically . This is connected to network neutrality, and there are
> several important issues that could fall under this theme, such as the role
> of intermediaries, liability, etc. Politically, this would help to reinforce
> a positive agenda on IPRs and a development agenda in the IGF
>
> More on that as soon as I have connection again.
>
> Marilia
>
>   On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 8:20 AM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>wrote:
>
>>   Hi Jeremy
>>
>> I think we should two separate threads for the next IGF's agenda, which
>> hopefully will be taken up in the Feb MAG meeting, and for our inputs into
>> the WG on IGF improvements. Both are very distinct issues and separately
>> quite important . So excuse me to have this thread on 'agenda for IGF
>> Nairobi'.
>>
>> I am particularly eager to get this discussion going, because I feel that
>> IGC should be doing much more on substantive issues, and its almost singular
>> focus on process issues is what has kept it insulated from much of the civil
>> society outside the IG realm, which compromises its legitimacy.
>>
>> In middle of the hot discussions on composition of the WG on IGF
>> improvements, Sala posted an email on the (globally) historic FCC decision
>> on network neutrality. While there are some good points there, there has
>> been a sellout on excluding mobile Internet from regulations disallowing
>> pay-for-priority. (To read this in the context of my earielr emails pointing
>> to how mobile Internet in India is already breaching NN boundaries.)
>>
>> This FC decision has the potential of splitting up the Internet into the
>> open fixed line variety and corporate content dominated mobile Internet. Why
>> should there be two kinds of Internet? Why do freedoms and rights count on
>> one kind and are not so important on the mobile Internet? What does this
>> mean for developing countries where mobile is slated to become the by far
>> the dominant platform for Internet?
>>
>> I also consider it very significant that it is perhaps the first time ever
>> in any substantial policy matter of such huge consequence that the policy
>> framework was largely written up as a result of negotiations between two
>> largest corporate players in the area - google and verizon - and then the
>> government rubber stamped it. If this the new global governance model we are
>> moving towards? I keep getting this picture in my mind of our health policy
>> frameworks soon being written by drug companies and health insurance
>> companies, and maybe the large private hospital chains, if they are big
>> enough, before plaint governments rubber stamp it. That is exactly what
>> happened in the present instance vis a vis the new communication
>> infrastructure of the Internet that came with such egalitarian promises.
>>
>> Anyway back to the topic,
>>
>> The next IGF just must take up 'Network Neutrality' or in fact ' Mobile
>> Network Neutrality' as its key plenary theme. Otherwise IGF and the real
>> world IG would be two very different worlds.
>>
>> It should also continue with the plenary topic - 'development agenda for
>> IG'
>>
>> And I propose a third topic
>>
>> 'Cross border Issues and implications of IG'
>>
>> CoE is discussing it, no reason why IGF should not.
>>
>> Parminder
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeremy Malcolm wrote:
>>
>> I would like us to move towards preparing a submission about the
>> programme of the 2011 IGF meeting.  Simultaneously, we can discuss IGF
>> improvements, which if minor could go into that submission, but
>> otherwise can be input for our new CSTD working group on the IGF.
>>
>> This is an exercise that we have, of course, gone through before.  So it
>> is useful for us to look at some previous submissions on the programme
>> of the IGF and on improvements, and see what we can simply rewrite and
>> reuse.  Here are relevant links:
>>
>> PROGRAMME:
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/8 (Hyderabad)http://www.igcaucus.org/node/5 (Sharm)http://www.igcaucus.org/node/26 (Sharm)http://www.igcaucus.org/node/32 (Sharm)http://www.igcaucus.org/node/34 (Vilnius)
>>
>> IMPROVEMENTS:
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/6 (funding, deeper discussion, WGs)http://www.igcaucus.org/node/7 (format improvements, IGF as town-hall)http://www.igcaucus.org/node/9 (MAG improvements)http://www.igcaucus.org/node/30 (MAG, funding, intersessional work)http://www.igcaucus.org/node/33 (MAG, outputs, intersessional work)http://www.igcaucus.org/node/41 (MAG improvements, links from IGF)http://www.igcaucus.org/node/45 (outputs, difficult issues, virtual IGF)
>>
>> I would suggest that people go through these and pick out the highlights
>> that they would like to reiterate... as well, of course, as contributing
>> any new points in light of the changed landscape since last November.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> PK
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade
> FGV Direito Rio
>
> Center for Technology and Society
> Getulio Vargas Foundation
> Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
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>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>
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From fouadbajwa at gmail.com  Sat Jan 15 02:06:33 2011
From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Bajwa)
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 12:06:33 +0500
Subject: [governance] Agenda for IGF Nairobi - IGC proposals
In-Reply-To: <4D302387.5070203@itforchange.net>
References: <1294902402.25480.696.camel@terminus-Aspire-L320>
	<4D302387.5070203@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikvNgZ8UrMuL_tL_-Mf5wOoAFmOobUadkt-ZFu_@mail.gmail.com>

We should begin with forwarding these suggestion well beforehand. Many
of the MAG members from developing regions will not be able to make it
to the upcoming MAG and open consultation meetings and will be mostly
around through remote participation.

My question regarding the topic of 'Network Neutrality' or now '
Mobile Network Neutrality' is that how should this be conveyed? NN is
easier to raise and pass through and have MNN listed in the sub-topics
because its a term almost everyone is aware of within the IGF
community but MNN will be a bit of confusion otherwise and might
create the same kind of resistance that happens around when the issue
around HR or IRP has been raised in the past? We know how things are
with new-terms in the process.

The 'development agenda for IG' should remain an important focus to be
included and I will sustain my position with regards to it and revive
the cross-community working group to organize it should we be able to
table it through.

'Cross border Issues and implications of IG' is a good topic and yes
CoE is discussing it with a major activity happening around April this
year on the issue and we can liaise with the CoE representatives to
table this issue as a main session topic.

Can we detail these topics out also to assist the MAG members from CS
to present, deliberate and sustain their ground.

An important thing that can be done is that we create a yearly focus
of topics that are also detailed out with all these references like
the one from Sala's message so that it can be used as a reference
point to make both statements, IGC position information and other
discussion pointers.

-- Best

Fouad




On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 3:20 PM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> wrote:
> Hi Jeremy
>
> I think we should two separate threads for the next IGF's agenda, which
> hopefully will be taken up in the Feb MAG meeting, and for our inputs into
> the WG on IGF improvements. Both are very distinct issues and separately
> quite important . So excuse me to have this thread on 'agenda for IGF
> Nairobi'.
>
> I am particularly eager to get this discussion going, because I feel that
> IGC should be doing much more on substantive issues, and its almost singular
> focus on process issues is what has kept it insulated from much of the civil
> society outside the IG realm, which compromises its legitimacy.
>
> In middle of the hot discussions on composition of the WG on IGF
> improvements, Sala posted an email on the (globally) historic FCC decision
> on network neutrality. While there are some good points there, there has
> been a sellout on excluding mobile Internet from regulations disallowing
> pay-for-priority. (To read this in the context of my earielr emails pointing
> to how mobile Internet in India is already breaching NN boundaries.)
>
> This FC decision has the potential of splitting up the Internet into the
> open fixed line variety and corporate content dominated mobile Internet. Why
> should there be two kinds of Internet? Why do freedoms and rights count on
> one kind and are not so important on the mobile Internet? What does this
> mean for developing countries where mobile is slated to become the by far
> the dominant platform for Internet?
>
> I also consider it very significant that it is perhaps the first time ever
> in any substantial policy matter of such huge consequence that the policy
> framework was largely written up as a result of negotiations between two
> largest corporate players in the area - google and verizon - and then the
> government rubber stamped it. If this the new global governance model we are
> moving towards? I keep getting this picture in my mind of our health policy
> frameworks soon being written by drug companies and health insurance
> companies, and maybe the large private hospital chains, if they are big
> enough, before plaint governments rubber stamp it. That is exactly what
> happened in the present instance vis a vis the new communication
> infrastructure of the Internet that came with such egalitarian promises.
>
> Anyway back to the topic,
>
> The next IGF just must take up 'Network Neutrality' or in fact ' Mobile
> Network Neutrality' as its key plenary theme. Otherwise IGF and the real
> world IG would be two very different worlds.
>
> It should also continue with the plenary topic - 'development agenda for IG'
>
> And I propose a third topic
>
> 'Cross border Issues and implications of IG'
>
> CoE is discussing it, no reason why IGF should not.
>
> Parminder
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jeremy Malcolm wrote:
>
> I would like us to move towards preparing a submission about the
> programme of the 2011 IGF meeting.  Simultaneously, we can discuss IGF
> improvements, which if minor could go into that submission, but
> otherwise can be input for our new CSTD working group on the IGF.
>
> This is an exercise that we have, of course, gone through before.  So it
> is useful for us to look at some previous submissions on the programme
> of the IGF and on improvements, and see what we can simply rewrite and
> reuse.  Here are relevant links:
>
> PROGRAMME:
>
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/8 (Hyderabad)
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/5 (Sharm)
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/26 (Sharm)
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/32 (Sharm)
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/34 (Vilnius)
>
> IMPROVEMENTS:
>
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/6 (funding, deeper discussion, WGs)
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/7 (format improvements, IGF as town-hall)
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/9 (MAG improvements)
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/30 (MAG, funding, intersessional work)
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/33 (MAG, outputs, intersessional work)
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/41 (MAG improvements, links from IGF)
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/45 (outputs, difficult issues, virtual IGF)
>
> I would suggest that people go through these and pick out the highlights
> that they would like to reiterate... as well, of course, as contributing
> any new points in light of the changed landscape since last November.
>
>
>
> --
> PK
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
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For all other list information and functions, see:
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To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


From pouzin at well.com  Sat Jan 15 03:48:30 2011
From: pouzin at well.com (Louis Pouzin (well))
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 09:48:30 +0100
Subject: [governance] Net Neutrality Decision
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=i1MxuUp9QX_p7TmopJssVBxinOWiTxBY0QkDE@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=i1MxuUp9QX_p7TmopJssVBxinOWiTxBY0QkDE@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimfwqRJ-cxnxd8RhacPveB05SL0qcT5+BJnEv=s@mail.gmail.com>

Here is a link to the FCC decision (194 pages) :

http://www.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2010/db1223/FCC-10-201A1.pdf

The first statements of this doc make up a compact summary :

- - -
*FCC 10-201*
Adopted: December 21, 2010 Released: December 23, 2010
Preserving the Open Internet Broadband Industry Practices

*I. PRESERVING THE FREE AND OPEN INTERNET
*
1. Today the Commission takes an important step to preserve the Internet as
an
open platform for innovation, investment, job creation, economic growth,
competition, and free expression. To provide greater clarity and certainty
regarding the continued freedom and openness of the Internet, we adopt three
basic rules that are grounded in broadly accepted Internet norms, as well as
our own prior decisions:

i. *Transparency*. Fixed and mobile broadband providers must disclose the
network management practices, performance characteristics, and terms and
conditions of their broadband services;

ii. *No blocking*. Fixed broadband providers may not block lawful content,
applications, services, or non-harmful devices; mobile broadband providers
may not block lawful websites, or block applications that compete with their
voice or video telephony services; and

iii. *No unreasonable discrimination*. Fixed broadband providers may not
unreasonably discriminate in transmitting lawful network traffic.

- - -
On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 9:45 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <
salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote:

> Check out the Headlines within the FCC website on Net Neutrality
>
> http://www.fcc.gov/
>
>
> http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-technology/us-regulators-approve-net-neutrality-20101222-194n6.html
>
> --
> Salanieta Tudrau Tamanikaiwaimaro
> P.O.Box 17862
> Suva
> Fiji Islands
>
> Cell: +679 9982851
> Alternate Email: s.tamanikaiwaimaro at tfl.com.fj
>
>
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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


From fouadbajwa at gmail.com  Sat Jan 15 20:04:37 2011
From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Bajwa)
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 06:04:37 +0500
Subject: [governance] Agenda for IGF Nairobi - IGC proposals
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikvNgZ8UrMuL_tL_-Mf5wOoAFmOobUadkt-ZFu_@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1294902402.25480.696.camel@terminus-Aspire-L320>
	<4D302387.5070203@itforchange.net>
	<AANLkTikvNgZ8UrMuL_tL_-Mf5wOoAFmOobUadkt-ZFu_@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimVU1stP18YEmnY4w0Q55BsOFzFNtrxTQ5Hv0HC@mail.gmail.com>

after giving some more thought to the Mobile Network Neutrality
topics, why not propose it as:

Wired and Wireless Network Neutrality - W2 at NN



On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 12:06 PM, Fouad Bajwa <fouadbajwa at gmail.com> wrote:
> We should begin with forwarding these suggestion well beforehand. Many
> of the MAG members from developing regions will not be able to make it
> to the upcoming MAG and open consultation meetings and will be mostly
> around through remote participation.
>
> My question regarding the topic of 'Network Neutrality' or now '
> Mobile Network Neutrality' is that how should this be conveyed? NN is
> easier to raise and pass through and have MNN listed in the sub-topics
> because its a term almost everyone is aware of within the IGF
> community but MNN will be a bit of confusion otherwise and might
> create the same kind of resistance that happens around when the issue
> around HR or IRP has been raised in the past? We know how things are
> with new-terms in the process.
>
> The 'development agenda for IG' should remain an important focus to be
> included and I will sustain my position with regards to it and revive
> the cross-community working group to organize it should we be able to
> table it through.
>
> 'Cross border Issues and implications of IG' is a good topic and yes
> CoE is discussing it with a major activity happening around April this
> year on the issue and we can liaise with the CoE representatives to
> table this issue as a main session topic.
>
> Can we detail these topics out also to assist the MAG members from CS
> to present, deliberate and sustain their ground.
>
> An important thing that can be done is that we create a yearly focus
> of topics that are also detailed out with all these references like
> the one from Sala's message so that it can be used as a reference
> point to make both statements, IGC position information and other
> discussion pointers.
>
> -- Best
>
> Fouad
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 3:20 PM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> wrote:
>> Hi Jeremy
>>
>> I think we should two separate threads for the next IGF's agenda, which
>> hopefully will be taken up in the Feb MAG meeting, and for our inputs into
>> the WG on IGF improvements. Both are very distinct issues and separately
>> quite important . So excuse me to have this thread on 'agenda for IGF
>> Nairobi'.
>>
>> I am particularly eager to get this discussion going, because I feel that
>> IGC should be doing much more on substantive issues, and its almost singular
>> focus on process issues is what has kept it insulated from much of the civil
>> society outside the IG realm, which compromises its legitimacy.
>>
>> In middle of the hot discussions on composition of the WG on IGF
>> improvements, Sala posted an email on the (globally) historic FCC decision
>> on network neutrality. While there are some good points there, there has
>> been a sellout on excluding mobile Internet from regulations disallowing
>> pay-for-priority. (To read this in the context of my earielr emails pointing
>> to how mobile Internet in India is already breaching NN boundaries.)
>>
>> This FC decision has the potential of splitting up the Internet into the
>> open fixed line variety and corporate content dominated mobile Internet. Why
>> should there be two kinds of Internet? Why do freedoms and rights count on
>> one kind and are not so important on the mobile Internet? What does this
>> mean for developing countries where mobile is slated to become the by far
>> the dominant platform for Internet?
>>
>> I also consider it very significant that it is perhaps the first time ever
>> in any substantial policy matter of such huge consequence that the policy
>> framework was largely written up as a result of negotiations between two
>> largest corporate players in the area - google and verizon - and then the
>> government rubber stamped it. If this the new global governance model we are
>> moving towards? I keep getting this picture in my mind of our health policy
>> frameworks soon being written by drug companies and health insurance
>> companies, and maybe the large private hospital chains, if they are big
>> enough, before plaint governments rubber stamp it. That is exactly what
>> happened in the present instance vis a vis the new communication
>> infrastructure of the Internet that came with such egalitarian promises.
>>
>> Anyway back to the topic,
>>
>> The next IGF just must take up 'Network Neutrality' or in fact ' Mobile
>> Network Neutrality' as its key plenary theme. Otherwise IGF and the real
>> world IG would be two very different worlds.
>>
>> It should also continue with the plenary topic - 'development agenda for IG'
>>
>> And I propose a third topic
>>
>> 'Cross border Issues and implications of IG'
>>
>> CoE is discussing it, no reason why IGF should not.
>>
>> Parminder
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeremy Malcolm wrote:
>>
>> I would like us to move towards preparing a submission about the
>> programme of the 2011 IGF meeting.  Simultaneously, we can discuss IGF
>> improvements, which if minor could go into that submission, but
>> otherwise can be input for our new CSTD working group on the IGF.
>>
>> This is an exercise that we have, of course, gone through before.  So it
>> is useful for us to look at some previous submissions on the programme
>> of the IGF and on improvements, and see what we can simply rewrite and
>> reuse.  Here are relevant links:
>>
>> PROGRAMME:
>>
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/8 (Hyderabad)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/5 (Sharm)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/26 (Sharm)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/32 (Sharm)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/34 (Vilnius)
>>
>> IMPROVEMENTS:
>>
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/6 (funding, deeper discussion, WGs)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/7 (format improvements, IGF as town-hall)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/9 (MAG improvements)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/30 (MAG, funding, intersessional work)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/33 (MAG, outputs, intersessional work)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/41 (MAG improvements, links from IGF)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/45 (outputs, difficult issues, virtual IGF)
>>
>> I would suggest that people go through these and pick out the highlights
>> that they would like to reiterate... as well, of course, as contributing
>> any new points in light of the changed landscape since last November.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> PK
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>



-- 
Regards.
--------------------------
Fouad Bajwa
____________________________________________________________
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From anriette at apc.org  Sun Jan 16 06:55:05 2011
From: anriette at apc.org (Anriette Esterhuysen)
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 13:55:05 +0200
Subject: [governance] Tunisia
Message-ID: <4D32DC99.2060402@apc.org>

For those of us who were in Tunis in 2005... is it not extraordinary 
what is happening there at the moment?  It was amazing to see interviews 
with some of our Tunisian colleagues (who we were delicately trying to 
support while involved in the rather politically complex process of 
participating in a summit in Tunis while also supporting local human 
rights organisations) on Al Jazeera.

It would be good to hear reactions from the Tunisian members of this 
list. Off list responses probably best as this is not quite on topic.

Anriette

-- 
------------------------------------------------------
anriette esterhuysen anriette at apc.org
executive director
association for progressive communications
www.apc.org

____________________________________________________________
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From khaled.koubaa at gmail.com  Sun Jan 16 07:11:03 2011
From: khaled.koubaa at gmail.com (Khaled KOUBAA)
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 13:11:03 +0100
Subject: [governance] Tunisia
In-Reply-To: <4D32DC99.2060402@apc.org>
References: <4D32DC99.2060402@apc.org>
Message-ID: <4D32E057.3090405@gmail.com>

Anriette,
People here have been delivered from the dictatorship of Ben Ali.
Everyone know become free to express himself and discuss what ever he 
wants. I personally was not able to write such email before 15/01/2011
Thank you for all your support for Tunisia and hope that our friends 
from Arab World will take this huge opportunity to wake up.
Khaled

Le 16/01/2011 12:55, Anriette Esterhuysen a écrit :
> For those of us who were in Tunis in 2005... is it not extraordinary 
> what is happening there at the moment?  It was amazing to see 
> interviews with some of our Tunisian colleagues (who we were 
> delicately trying to support while involved in the rather politically 
> complex process of participating in a summit in Tunis while also 
> supporting local human rights organisations) on Al Jazeera.
>
> It would be good to hear reactions from the Tunisian members of this 
> list. Off list responses probably best as this is not quite on topic.
>
> Anriette
>

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


From parminder at itforchange.net  Sun Jan 16 09:24:25 2011
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 19:54:25 +0530
Subject: [governance] Tunisia
In-Reply-To: <4D32E057.3090405@gmail.com>
References: <4D32DC99.2060402@apc.org> <4D32E057.3090405@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D32FF99.3000409@itforchange.net>


Congratulations to all Tunisians. One can imagine what a heady moment it 
must be for you all. Parminder

Khaled KOUBAA wrote:
> Anriette,
> People here have been delivered from the dictatorship of Ben Ali.
> Everyone know become free to express himself and discuss what ever he 
> wants. I personally was not able to write such email before 15/01/2011
> Thank you for all your support for Tunisia and hope that our friends 
> from Arab World will take this huge opportunity to wake up.
> Khaled
>
> Le 16/01/2011 12:55, Anriette Esterhuysen a écrit :
>> For those of us who were in Tunis in 2005... is it not extraordinary 
>> what is happening there at the moment?  It was amazing to see 
>> interviews with some of our Tunisian colleagues (who we were 
>> delicately trying to support while involved in the rather politically 
>> complex process of participating in a summit in Tunis while also 
>> supporting local human rights organisations) on Al Jazeera.
>>
>> It would be good to hear reactions from the Tunisian members of this 
>> list. Off list responses probably best as this is not quite on topic.
>>
>> Anriette
>>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
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>
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-- 
PK

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From dcogburn at syr.edu  Sun Jan 16 09:43:05 2011
From: dcogburn at syr.edu (Derrick L. Cogburn)
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 09:43:05 -0500
Subject: [governance] Tunisia
In-Reply-To: <4D32FF99.3000409@itforchange.net>
References: <4D32DC99.2060402@apc.org> <4D32E057.3090405@gmail.com>
 <4D32FF99.3000409@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <B889CEF5-5644-4209-9F36-6E8F0482B0AA@syr.edu>

Great note Anriette. I too have been thinking about WSIS Tunis as these events unfolded. I'd been to Tunisia several times before WSIS, but the contrasts in 2005 between the hopeful possibilities of the information society being discussed inside with what was happening outside in the city were indeed striking.

I wish everyone in Tunisia the best in this new phase, which will certainly not be without its own challenges.

Cheers,
Derrick

Dr. Derrick L. Cogburn
Associate Professor
American University
Syracuse University
Director: COTELCO Center
http://cotelco.net

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 16, 2011, at 9:24 AM, "parminder" <parminder at itforchange.net<mailto:parminder at itforchange.net>> wrote:


Congratulations to all Tunisians. One can imagine what a heady moment it must be for you all. Parminder

Khaled KOUBAA wrote:
Anriette,
People here have been delivered from the dictatorship of Ben Ali.
Everyone know become free to express himself and discuss what ever he wants. I personally was not able to write such email before 15/01/2011
Thank you for all your support for Tunisia and hope that our friends from Arab World will take this huge opportunity to wake up.
Khaled

Le 16/01/2011 12:55, Anriette Esterhuysen a écrit :
For those of us who were in Tunis in 2005... is it not extraordinary what is happening there at the moment?  It was amazing to see interviews with some of our Tunisian colleagues (who we were delicately trying to support while involved in the rather politically complex process of participating in a summit in Tunis while also supporting local human rights organisations) on Al Jazeera.

It would be good to hear reactions from the Tunisian members of this list. Off list responses probably best as this is not quite on topic.

Anriette


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From graciela at nupef.org.br  Sun Jan 16 10:10:57 2011
From: graciela at nupef.org.br (Graciela Selaimen)
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 13:10:57 -0200
Subject: [governance] Fwd: Re: [IAMCR] Tunis
Message-ID: <4D330A81.3020005@nupef.org.br>

Intersting article.

best,
Graciela Selaimen - a 'Suleiman' in Tunisia.

	
Data: 	Fri, 14 Jan 2011 22:43:03 -0800
De: 	Sasha Costanza Chock <costanza at usc.edu>

	
: 	



Ethan zuckerman has an excellent post here: http://www.ethanzuckerman.com/blog/2011/01/12/what-if-tunisia-had-a-revolution-but-nobody-watched/

-sc


>Any thoughts on events in Tunis, the site of the World Summit for the
>Information Society?
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>International Association for Media and Communication Research -
>http://iamcr.org
>Announcements mailing list
>
>Join IAMCR |
>http://iamcr.org/about-iamcr/membership/join-iamcr-mainmenu-237
>
>Follow IAMCR's updates on Twitter | http://twitter.com/IAMCRtweets
>Visit IAMCR's Facebook Page | http://www.facebook.com/iamcr.org
__________________
International Association for Media and Communication Research - http://iamcr.org
Announcements mailing list

Join IAMCR | http://iamcr.org/about-iamcr/membership/join-iamcr-mainmenu-237

Follow IAMCR's updates on Twitter | http://twitter.com/IAMCRtweets
Visit IAMCR's Facebook Page | http://www.facebook.com/iamcr.org


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From qshatti at gmail.com  Sun Jan 16 10:38:06 2011
From: qshatti at gmail.com (Qusai AlShatti)
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 18:38:06 +0300
Subject: [governance] Tunisia
In-Reply-To: <B889CEF5-5644-4209-9F36-6E8F0482B0AA@syr.edu>
References: <4D32DC99.2060402@apc.org>
	<4D32E057.3090405@gmail.com>
	<4D32FF99.3000409@itforchange.net>
	<B889CEF5-5644-4209-9F36-6E8F0482B0AA@syr.edu>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin-NuLjYXQZJkx-EdnHr_Z2kM68hiBYWRgQDeF=@mail.gmail.com>

Dear All and Especially our Tunisien Colleagues:
As the Great Tunisien Poet Abul Qasim AlShabi Said once: "If the
people one day chose life, destiny will comply".
اذا الشعب يوما أراد الحياة     فلا بد ان يستجيب القدر
We wish Tunis a new era of freedom, democracy and prosperity. It is a
new begining for all Tunisiens, full of hope, optimism and a better
future. It is astonishing to see how people (especially the youth)
can use the Internet and social networks to support each other, pursue
their freedom, organise themselves, seek a better life and stand for
their principles. Ironically, the people right now are using it to
assist the police and the army (the organizations that filtered it in
the past) to maintain law and order.

It is time for the rest in this world to know that blocking, filtering
and censoring the Internet will never work.

May Godbless Tunis and all Tunisiens.

Sincerely Yours

Qusai Al-Shatti

On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 5:43 PM, Derrick L. Cogburn <dcogburn at syr.edu> wrote:
> Great note Anriette. I too have been thinking about WSIS Tunis as these
> events unfolded. I'd been to Tunisia several times before WSIS, but the
> contrasts in 2005 between the hopeful possibilities of the information
> society being discussed inside with what was happening outside in the city
> were indeed striking.
> I wish everyone in Tunisia the best in this new phase, which will certainly
> not be without its own challenges.
> Cheers,
> Derrick
>
> Dr. Derrick L. Cogburn
> Associate Professor
> American University
> Syracuse University
> Director: COTELCO Center
> http://cotelco.net
> Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 16, 2011, at 9:24 AM, "parminder" <parminder at itforchange.net> wrote:
>
>
> Congratulations to all Tunisians. One can imagine what a heady moment it
> must be for you all. Parminder
>
> Khaled KOUBAA wrote:
>
> Anriette,
> People here have been delivered from the dictatorship of Ben Ali.
> Everyone know become free to express himself and discuss what ever he wants.
> I personally was not able to write such email before 15/01/2011
> Thank you for all your support for Tunisia and hope that our friends from
> Arab World will take this huge opportunity to wake up.
> Khaled
>
> Le 16/01/2011 12:55, Anriette Esterhuysen a écrit :
>
> For those of us who were in Tunis in 2005... is it not extraordinary what is
> happening there at the moment?  It was amazing to see interviews with some
> of our Tunisian colleagues (who we were delicately trying to support while
> involved in the rather politically complex process of participating in a
> summit in Tunis while also supporting local human rights organisations) on
> Al Jazeera.
>
> It would be good to hear reactions from the Tunisian members of this list.
> Off list responses probably best as this is not quite on topic.
>
> Anriette
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
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>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>
> --
> PK
>
> <message-footer.txt>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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> To be removed from the list, visit:
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From fouadbajwa at gmail.com  Sun Jan 16 11:22:46 2011
From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Bajwa)
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 21:22:46 +0500
Subject: [governance] Tunisia
In-Reply-To: <4D32E057.3090405@gmail.com>
References: <4D32DC99.2060402@apc.org>
	<4D32E057.3090405@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikPTjPOcRGvR_fc6ZQOq107UnkjqKPZfFM60cdE@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Khaled,

It is definitely a start and destiny will pave its way to a more open
and inclusive democracy in Tunisia. As I read the news and my mind
wanders through those streets where the revolution has emerged where
once I had the chance to visit and explore the region, I feel the
struggle for change.

I am very intrigued by the way social media played a major role in
helping the youth of the country to go about stimulating this change.
It is true that the Internet can spur change both at the personal and
community level carrying an impact that breaks traditional norms and
perceptions about what technology can spur.

I would like to join other colleagues in acknowledging that attempts
of locking, filtering and censoring the Internet is a concept of the
past but there will still be attempts and barriers will breakdown as
we have witnessed in the case of Tunisia.

To the children of Tunisia, I join everyone to the forthcoming era of
freedom, democracy and prosperity and yes both hope and optimism will
lead Tunisians towards a better and more open future. Tunisians have
shown the world that both great and positive change can be brought
forth with the help of the Internet. The Internet is itself a medium
but what happens at its ends is now defining human events!

-- Best Regards

Fouad Bajwa

On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 5:11 PM, Khaled KOUBAA <khaled.koubaa at gmail.com> wrote:
> Anriette,
> People here have been delivered from the dictatorship of Ben Ali.
> Everyone know become free to express himself and discuss what ever he wants.
> I personally was not able to write such email before 15/01/2011
> Thank you for all your support for Tunisia and hope that our friends from
> Arab World will take this huge opportunity to wake up.
> Khaled
>
> Le 16/01/2011 12:55, Anriette Esterhuysen a écrit :
>>
>> For those of us who were in Tunis in 2005... is it not extraordinary what
>> is happening there at the moment?  It was amazing to see interviews with
>> some of our Tunisian colleagues (who we were delicately trying to support
>> while involved in the rather politically complex process of participating in
>> a summit in Tunis while also supporting local human rights organisations) on
>> Al Jazeera.
>>
>> It would be good to hear reactions from the Tunisian members of this list.
>> Off list responses probably best as this is not quite on topic.
>>
>> Anriette
>>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>    governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>    http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
____________________________________________________________
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From roland at internetpolicyagency.com  Sun Jan 16 11:23:30 2011
From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry)
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 16:23:30 +0000
Subject: [governance] Fwd: Re: [IAMCR] Tunis
In-Reply-To: <4D330A81.3020005@nupef.org.br>
References: <4D330A81.3020005@nupef.org.br>
Message-ID: <kIGC2AwCuxMNFAKo@internetpolicyagency.com>

In message <4D330A81.3020005 at nupef.org.br>, at 13:10:57 on Sun, 16 Jan 
2011, Graciela Selaimen <graciela at nupef.org.br> writes

>what-if-tunisia-had-a-revolution-but-nobody-watched/

Tunisia is a popular enough holiday destination for British tourists 
(especially at this time of year)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12200280

...that the situation there has been number-one headline news item for a 
couple of days. Although much of the reporting starts with pictures of 
people camping out in airport departure lounges, it does go on to 
describe the political situation in some detail.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12200493

Actually, right now it's still the top story:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12202283
-- 
Roland Perry
____________________________________________________________
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From lmcknigh at syr.edu  Sun Jan 16 11:53:41 2011
From: lmcknigh at syr.edu (Lee W McKnight)
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 11:53:41 -0500
Subject: [governance] Agenda for IGF Nairobi - IGC proposals
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimVU1stP18YEmnY4w0Q55BsOFzFNtrxTQ5Hv0HC@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1294902402.25480.696.camel@terminus-Aspire-L320>
	<4D302387.5070203@itforchange.net>
	<AANLkTikvNgZ8UrMuL_tL_-Mf5wOoAFmOobUadkt-ZFu_@mail.gmail.com>,<AANLkTimVU1stP18YEmnY4w0Q55BsOFzFNtrxTQ5Hv0HC@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <93F4C2F3D19A03439EAC16D47C591DDE03300070D5@suex07-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu>

The FCC 'NN rules' doc Parminder referenced is actually titled 'open Internet'...I scanned and did find the words 'network neutrality' in some footnotes.

So while 'Network Neutrality' is the popular phraseology, there is a reason the actual regulations are for 'open Internet' which as some may recall is the phraseology which I have been suggesting all along is a more accurate rendering of what is desired, and desirable.

Now my 2 points:

1) 'open Internet' logically includes both wired and wireless nets, as well as heterogeneous nets including both wired and wireless pieces. The third  category happens to be most of our daily realities in Internet access, services and use. 

2) the FCC regs are therefore logically inconsistent if they claim one set of rules for -wired - and another for - wireless, and are at 95% confidence level imho likely to be challenged in court within a year. 

Because of 1) and 2) and the usual industry squabbles the FCC rules are far from the last word on net neutrality or open Internet thematic  in the US; I suspect sooner or later new legislation for ensuring an - open Internet - will be needed. And the artifical boundary of one set of rules for wired and another for wireless, won't stand up to the scrutiny.

In sum, for IGF thematic reasons I understand going with the 'headline news' version of the issue - ie the phrase network neutrality - but for actual progress towards a global - open Internet - I continue to suggest the better phrase is - open Internet.  I'm sure the fact that the FCC agrees with me on that point is a plus or minus for many of you. : ).

But anyway, my suggested amendment to the proposed main theme title is: 'Open Mobile Internet.' 

Three words both clear and ambiguous enough to leave room for multiple interpretations, which seems a requirement for an IGF theme...

Lee
________________________________________
From: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org [governance-request at lists.cpsr.org] On Behalf Of Fouad Bajwa [fouadbajwa at gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2011 8:04 PM
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; parminder
Cc: Jeremy Malcolm
Subject: Re: [governance] Agenda for IGF Nairobi - IGC proposals

after giving some more thought to the Mobile Network Neutrality
topics, why not propose it as:

Wired and Wireless Network Neutrality - W2 at NN



On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 12:06 PM, Fouad Bajwa <fouadbajwa at gmail.com> wrote:
> We should begin with forwarding these suggestion well beforehand. Many
> of the MAG members from developing regions will not be able to make it
> to the upcoming MAG and open consultation meetings and will be mostly
> around through remote participation.
>
> My question regarding the topic of 'Network Neutrality' or now '
> Mobile Network Neutrality' is that how should this be conveyed? NN is
> easier to raise and pass through and have MNN listed in the sub-topics
> because its a term almost everyone is aware of within the IGF
> community but MNN will be a bit of confusion otherwise and might
> create the same kind of resistance that happens around when the issue
> around HR or IRP has been raised in the past? We know how things are
> with new-terms in the process.
>
> The 'development agenda for IG' should remain an important focus to be
> included and I will sustain my position with regards to it and revive
> the cross-community working group to organize it should we be able to
> table it through.
>
> 'Cross border Issues and implications of IG' is a good topic and yes
> CoE is discussing it with a major activity happening around April this
> year on the issue and we can liaise with the CoE representatives to
> table this issue as a main session topic.
>
> Can we detail these topics out also to assist the MAG members from CS
> to present, deliberate and sustain their ground.
>
> An important thing that can be done is that we create a yearly focus
> of topics that are also detailed out with all these references like
> the one from Sala's message so that it can be used as a reference
> point to make both statements, IGC position information and other
> discussion pointers.
>
> -- Best
>
> Fouad
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 3:20 PM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> wrote:
>> Hi Jeremy
>>
>> I think we should two separate threads for the next IGF's agenda, which
>> hopefully will be taken up in the Feb MAG meeting, and for our inputs into
>> the WG on IGF improvements. Both are very distinct issues and separately
>> quite important . So excuse me to have this thread on 'agenda for IGF
>> Nairobi'.
>>
>> I am particularly eager to get this discussion going, because I feel that
>> IGC should be doing much more on substantive issues, and its almost singular
>> focus on process issues is what has kept it insulated from much of the civil
>> society outside the IG realm, which compromises its legitimacy.
>>
>> In middle of the hot discussions on composition of the WG on IGF
>> improvements, Sala posted an email on the (globally) historic FCC decision
>> on network neutrality. While there are some good points there, there has
>> been a sellout on excluding mobile Internet from regulations disallowing
>> pay-for-priority. (To read this in the context of my earielr emails pointing
>> to how mobile Internet in India is already breaching NN boundaries.)
>>
>> This FC decision has the potential of splitting up the Internet into the
>> open fixed line variety and corporate content dominated mobile Internet. Why
>> should there be two kinds of Internet? Why do freedoms and rights count on
>> one kind and are not so important on the mobile Internet? What does this
>> mean for developing countries where mobile is slated to become the by far
>> the dominant platform for Internet?
>>
>> I also consider it very significant that it is perhaps the first time ever
>> in any substantial policy matter of such huge consequence that the policy
>> framework was largely written up as a result of negotiations between two
>> largest corporate players in the area - google and verizon - and then the
>> government rubber stamped it. If this the new global governance model we are
>> moving towards? I keep getting this picture in my mind of our health policy
>> frameworks soon being written by drug companies and health insurance
>> companies, and maybe the large private hospital chains, if they are big
>> enough, before plaint governments rubber stamp it. That is exactly what
>> happened in the present instance vis a vis the new communication
>> infrastructure of the Internet that came with such egalitarian promises.
>>
>> Anyway back to the topic,
>>
>> The next IGF just must take up 'Network Neutrality' or in fact ' Mobile
>> Network Neutrality' as its key plenary theme. Otherwise IGF and the real
>> world IG would be two very different worlds.
>>
>> It should also continue with the plenary topic - 'development agenda for IG'
>>
>> And I propose a third topic
>>
>> 'Cross border Issues and implications of IG'
>>
>> CoE is discussing it, no reason why IGF should not.
>>
>> Parminder
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeremy Malcolm wrote:
>>
>> I would like us to move towards preparing a submission about the
>> programme of the 2011 IGF meeting.  Simultaneously, we can discuss IGF
>> improvements, which if minor could go into that submission, but
>> otherwise can be input for our new CSTD working group on the IGF.
>>
>> This is an exercise that we have, of course, gone through before.  So it
>> is useful for us to look at some previous submissions on the programme
>> of the IGF and on improvements, and see what we can simply rewrite and
>> reuse.  Here are relevant links:
>>
>> PROGRAMME:
>>
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/8 (Hyderabad)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/5 (Sharm)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/26 (Sharm)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/32 (Sharm)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/34 (Vilnius)
>>
>> IMPROVEMENTS:
>>
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/6 (funding, deeper discussion, WGs)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/7 (format improvements, IGF as town-hall)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/9 (MAG improvements)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/30 (MAG, funding, intersessional work)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/33 (MAG, outputs, intersessional work)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/41 (MAG improvements, links from IGF)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/45 (outputs, difficult issues, virtual IGF)
>>
>> I would suggest that people go through these and pick out the highlights
>> that they would like to reiterate... as well, of course, as contributing
>> any new points in light of the changed landscape since last November.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> PK
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>



--
Regards.
--------------------------
Fouad Bajwa
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From renate.bloem at gmail.com  Sun Jan 16 12:42:30 2011
From: renate.bloem at gmail.com (Renate Bloem (Gmail))
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 18:42:30 +0100
Subject: [governance] Tunisia
In-Reply-To: <4D32DC99.2060402@apc.org>
Message-ID: <4d332e00.122ae30a.3a86.ffffbba6@mx.google.com>

For those of us who were there....In 2003 in Geneva we might not all have
known, latest at the Summit on 2005 we were aware!

 

Congratulations now to the people of Tunisia for their courage, no matter
how social networks might have helped. We wish you a great path in dignity
to your collective freedom.

 

So happy

Renate

 

http://www.ethanzuckerman.com/blog/2011/01/12/what-if-tunisia-had-a-revoluti
on-but-nobody-watched/ 

 

Renate Bloem

Past President of CONGO

Civicus UN Geneva

Tel:/Fax +33450 850815/16

Mobile : +41763462310

renate.bloem at civicus.org

renate.bloem at gmail.com

skype: Renate.Bloem

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org
[mailto:governance-request at lists.cpsr.org] On Behalf Of Anriette Esterhuysen
Sent: dimanche, 16. janvier 2011 12:55
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
Subject: [governance] Tunisia

 

For those of us who were in Tunis in 2005... is it not extraordinary 

what is happening there at the moment?  It was amazing to see interviews 

with some of our Tunisian colleagues (who we were delicately trying to 

support while involved in the rather politically complex process of 

participating in a summit in Tunis while also supporting local human 

rights organisations) on Al Jazeera.

 

It would be good to hear reactions from the Tunisian members of this 

list. Off list responses probably best as this is not quite on topic.

 

Anriette

 

-- 

------------------------------------------------------

anriette esterhuysen anriette at apc.org

executive director

association for progressive communications

www.apc.org

 

____________________________________________________________

You received this message as a subscriber on the list:

     governance at lists.cpsr.org

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     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

 

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     http://www.igcaucus.org/

 

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From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com  Sun Jan 16 13:24:40 2011
From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 06:24:40 +1200
Subject: [governance] Tunisia
In-Reply-To: <4d332e00.122ae30a.3a86.ffffbba6@mx.google.com>
References: <4D32DC99.2060402@apc.org>
	<4d332e00.122ae30a.3a86.ffffbba6@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikOpMMELHFLHmzDY20pCBphBeOziOcjRqQP+kDp@mail.gmail.com>

I can only imagine the pain, struggles that Tunisians went through and
warmly congratulate you all and wish you peace and freedom.


Warm Regards,

Sala

On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 6:42 AM, Renate Bloem (Gmail) <
renate.bloem at gmail.com> wrote:

>  For those of us who were there....In 2003 in Geneva we might not all have
> known, latest at the Summit on 2005 we were aware!
>
>
>
> Congratulations now to the people of Tunisia for their courage, no matter
> how social networks might have helped. We wish you a great path in dignity
> to your collective freedom.
>
>
>
> So happy
>
> Renate
>
>
>
>
> http://www.ethanzuckerman.com/blog/2011/01/12/what-if-tunisia-had-a-revolution-but-nobody-watched/
>
>
>
> Renate Bloem
>
> Past President of CONGO
>
> Civicus UN Geneva
>
> Tel:/Fax +33450 850815/16
>
> Mobile : +41763462310
>
> renate.bloem at civicus.org
>
> renate.bloem at gmail.com
>
> skype: Renate.Bloem
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org [mailto:
> governance-request at lists.cpsr.org] On Behalf Of Anriette Esterhuysen
> Sent: dimanche, 16. janvier 2011 12:55
> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
> Subject: [governance] Tunisia
>
>
>
> For those of us who were in Tunis in 2005... is it not extraordinary
>
> what is happening there at the moment?  It was amazing to see interviews
>
> with some of our Tunisian colleagues (who we were delicately trying to
>
> support while involved in the rather politically complex process of
>
> participating in a summit in Tunis while also supporting local human
>
> rights organisations) on Al Jazeera.
>
>
>
> It would be good to hear reactions from the Tunisian members of this
>
> list. Off list responses probably best as this is not quite on topic.
>
>
>
> Anriette
>
>
>
> --
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> anriette esterhuysen anriette at apc.org
>
> executive director
>
> association for progressive communications
>
> www.apc.org
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
>
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
>
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
>
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
>
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
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>
>
>
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From isolatedn at gmail.com  Sun Jan 16 13:34:20 2011
From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian M)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 00:04:20 +0530
Subject: [governance] Tunisia
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikOpMMELHFLHmzDY20pCBphBeOziOcjRqQP+kDp@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4D32DC99.2060402@apc.org>
	<4d332e00.122ae30a.3a86.ffffbba6@mx.google.com>
	<AANLkTikOpMMELHFLHmzDY20pCBphBeOziOcjRqQP+kDp@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimAn9hdvXp4ZxDtXb00dqr+kOkaNb-oSXNpwe_5@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Khaleed,


All this is happening at a moment when there are disturbing trends towards
tighter controls and negative progress in the free world. What is happening
in Tunisia has significance as good news for this reason. Good to hear about
the good that is happening in Tunisia.


Sivasubramanian M

http://isocmadras.blogspot.com
facebook: http://is.gd/x8Sh
LinkedIn: http://is.gd/x8U6
Twitter: http://is.gd/x8Vz




On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 11:54 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <
salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote:

> I can only imagine the pain, struggles that Tunisians went through and
> warmly congratulate you all and wish you peace and freedom.
>
>
> Warm Regards,
>
> Sala
>
> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 6:42 AM, Renate Bloem (Gmail) <
> renate.bloem at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>  For those of us who were there....In 2003 in Geneva we might not all
>> have known, latest at the Summit on 2005 we were aware!
>>
>>
>>
>> Congratulations now to the people of Tunisia for their courage, no matter
>> how social networks might have helped. We wish you a great path in dignity
>> to your collective freedom.
>>
>>
>>
>> So happy
>>
>> Renate
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.ethanzuckerman.com/blog/2011/01/12/what-if-tunisia-had-a-revolution-but-nobody-watched/
>>
>>
>>
>> Renate Bloem
>>
>> Past President of CONGO
>>
>> Civicus UN Geneva
>>
>> Tel:/Fax +33450 850815/16
>>
>> Mobile : +41763462310
>>
>> renate.bloem at civicus.org
>>
>> renate.bloem at gmail.com
>>
>> skype: Renate.Bloem
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org [mailto:
>> governance-request at lists.cpsr.org] On Behalf Of Anriette Esterhuysen
>> Sent: dimanche, 16. janvier 2011 12:55
>> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> Subject: [governance] Tunisia
>>
>>
>>
>> For those of us who were in Tunis in 2005... is it not extraordinary
>>
>> what is happening there at the moment?  It was amazing to see interviews
>>
>> with some of our Tunisian colleagues (who we were delicately trying to
>>
>> support while involved in the rather politically complex process of
>>
>> participating in a summit in Tunis while also supporting local human
>>
>> rights organisations) on Al Jazeera.
>>
>>
>>
>> It would be good to hear reactions from the Tunisian members of this
>>
>> list. Off list responses probably best as this is not quite on topic.
>>
>>
>>
>> Anriette
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> anriette esterhuysen anriette at apc.org
>>
>> executive director
>>
>> association for progressive communications
>>
>> www.apc.org
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>>
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>
>>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
>>
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>>
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>
>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>>
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>>
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
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>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
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>
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From jlfullsack at orange.fr  Sun Jan 16 17:54:26 2011
From: jlfullsack at orange.fr (Jean-Louis FULLSACK)
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 23:54:26 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [governance] Tunisia
Message-ID: <17314730.114635.1295218466758.JavaMail.www@wwinf1k17>

Cher Khaled

Toute notre admiration au peuple tunisien qui a eu le courage de se liberer -enfin- d'une dictature trop longtemps supportee mais aussi, en ces moments difficiles, tous nos encouragements et l'expression de notre profonde solidarité a ces artisans du nouvel avenir, libre et démocratique, de leur beau pays.

Au nom de CSDPTT comme en mon nom propre, je souhaite a la societe civile tunisienne, respectueuse des droits de l'Homme, de retrouver rapidement l'acces libre et non surveille aux medias et l'exercice sans menaces de ses activites. 

Au peuple tunisien tous nos souhaits d'un heureux avenir et toute notre solidarite.

Ils n'etaient pas beaucoup a prevoir que ces evenements a la fois dramatiques et porteurs d'un immense espoir surviennent si rapidement (meme apres 23 ans de regime dictatorial). Et nous avions quelques raisons et ... nos souvenirs de la "phase de Tunis" du SMSI a laquelle  les "Organisations pas vraiment Non Gouvernementales" tunisiennes ont imprimé une ambiance déplorable et constamment conflictuelle. Comme le rappelle l'éditorial de la Lettre de CSDPTT d'octobre 2005 jointe qui justifie notre absence au Sommet de Tunis. Cinq ans apres, la societe civile -si silencieuse jusqu'a hier sur cette liste- devra se souvenir qu'on savait déjà bien avant le Sommet ce qui se passait a Tunis. 

Avec mes sentiments solidaires

Jean-louis Fullsack
Administrateur de CSDPTT



> Message du 16/01/11 13:11
> De : "Khaled KOUBAA" 
> A : governance at lists.cpsr.org
> Copie à : 
> Objet : Re: [governance] Tunisia
> 
> Anriette,
> People here have been delivered from the dictatorship of Ben Ali.
> Everyone know become free to express himself and discuss what ever he 
> wants. I personally was not able to write such email before 15/01/2011
> Thank you for all your support for Tunisia and hope that our friends 
> from Arab World will take this huge opportunity to wake up.
> Khaled
> 
> Le 16/01/2011 12:55, Anriette Esterhuysen a écrit :
> > For those of us who were in Tunis in 2005... is it not extraordinary 
> > what is happening there at the moment? It was amazing to see 
> > interviews with some of our Tunisian colleagues (who we were 
> > delicately trying to support while involved in the rather politically 
> > complex process of participating in a summit in Tunis while also 
> > supporting local human rights organisations) on Al Jazeera.
> >
> > It would be good to hear reactions from the Tunisian members of this 
> > list. Off list responses probably best as this is not quite on topic.
> >
> > Anriette
> >
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> 
> 
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From jlfullsack at orange.fr  Sun Jan 16 18:15:15 2011
From: jlfullsack at orange.fr (Jean-Louis FULLSACK)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 00:15:15 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [governance] Tunisia
Message-ID: <8739563.114819.1295219715558.JavaMail.www@wwinf1k17>

At last ! Our brilliant bloggers and mailers were completely absent from this major event happenining in Tunisia, at least on the governance list. As if "governance" was an Internet specific affair .... 

I also remember these numerous tunisian "Not Really Non Governmental Organizations"  and the deleterious athmosphere they happened to create during the meetings in the well-named Tunis Phase ! This was the very reason for CSDPTT's absence on the Tunis Summit. Hopefully, this will not re-happen and this is worthy to be said.

On the other hand, we, the civil society, should strongly support those tunisian CS orgs who share our values of freedom and democracy and therefore were forced to silence and/or barred from partipating to the WSIS outside Tunisia and even during the Tunis Summit. 

let's do our best together for a better future for all Tunesians ! 

Jean-Louis Fullsack
CSDPTT




> Message du 16/01/11 12:55
> De : "Anriette Esterhuysen" 
> A : governance at lists.cpsr.org
> Copie à : 
> Objet : [governance] Tunisia
> 
> For those of us who were in Tunis in 2005... is it not extraordinary 
> what is happening there at the moment? It was amazing to see interviews 
> with some of our Tunisian colleagues (who we were delicately trying to 
> support while involved in the rather politically complex process of 
> participating in a summit in Tunis while also supporting local human 
> rights organisations) on Al Jazeera.
> 
> It would be good to hear reactions from the Tunisian members of this 
> list. Off list responses probably best as this is not quite on topic.
> 
> Anriette
> 
> -- 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> anriette esterhuysen anriette at apc.org
> executive director
> association for progressive communications
> www.apc.org
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> 
> 
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From jeremy at ciroap.org  Sun Jan 16 21:26:23 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (jeremy at ciroap.org)
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 18:26:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [governance] Advance notice of the need to move this list
In-Reply-To: <0uNmPSdvqMMNFAay@internetpolicyagency.com>
Message-ID: <sympa.1295230889.33920.988@lists.cpsr.org>

(My email is down again so I'm replying from the Web archive.)  To avoid the list being at igf-online.net, we would need to move the Web site and the mailing list into the same place.  I can't give much of a commitment from Consumers International about continuity (because everything depends on funding for my project work at CI), so the other option is for us to raise some funds and hire our own virtual server, where everything can be consolidated under our existing igcaucus.org domain.  Does anyone prefer that option?  I suspect it would not be too hard to raise the necessary funds, even if just with a "Donate" button on our Web site.  We are talking about around $10/month.  In the past there was talk about making an application for a grant from a donor like the UN Democracy Fund, but this raised people's fears about over-institutionalising the IGC, so...
____________________________________________________________
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     governance at lists.cpsr.org
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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de  Mon Jan 17 03:38:21 2011
From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang=22?=)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 09:38:21 +0100
Subject: AW: [governance] Agenda for IGF Nairobi - IGC proposals
References: <1294902402.25480.696.camel@terminus-Aspire-L320>
 <4D302387.5070203@itforchange.net>
 <AANLkTikvNgZ8UrMuL_tL_-Mf5wOoAFmOobUadkt-ZFu_@mail.gmail.com>
 <AANLkTimVU1stP18YEmnY4w0Q55BsOFzFNtrxTQ5Hv0HC@mail.gmail.com>
 <93F4C2F3D19A03439EAC16D47C591DDE03300070D5@suex07-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID:  <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8A076A6@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>

Thanks Lee
 
good point. And BRW, "open Internet" relates closer to the orginal themes of the IGFm, whicn included "Openess" as one of the five key subjects for discussion. However I likle the acronym "W2 at NN" :-))))
 
wolfgang

________________________________

Von: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org im Auftrag von Lee W McKnight
Gesendet: So 16.01.2011 17:53
An: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Fouad Bajwa; parminder
Cc: Jeremy Malcolm
Betreff: RE: [governance] Agenda for IGF Nairobi - IGC proposals



The FCC 'NN rules' doc Parminder referenced is actually titled 'open Internet'...I scanned and did find the words 'network neutrality' in some footnotes.

So while 'Network Neutrality' is the popular phraseology, there is a reason the actual regulations are for 'open Internet' which as some may recall is the phraseology which I have been suggesting all along is a more accurate rendering of what is desired, and desirable.

Now my 2 points:

1) 'open Internet' logically includes both wired and wireless nets, as well as heterogeneous nets including both wired and wireless pieces. The third  category happens to be most of our daily realities in Internet access, services and use.

2) the FCC regs are therefore logically inconsistent if they claim one set of rules for -wired - and another for - wireless, and are at 95% confidence level imho likely to be challenged in court within a year.

Because of 1) and 2) and the usual industry squabbles the FCC rules are far from the last word on net neutrality or open Internet thematic  in the US; I suspect sooner or later new legislation for ensuring an - open Internet - will be needed. And the artifical boundary of one set of rules for wired and another for wireless, won't stand up to the scrutiny.

In sum, for IGF thematic reasons I understand going with the 'headline news' version of the issue - ie the phrase network neutrality - but for actual progress towards a global - open Internet - I continue to suggest the better phrase is - open Internet.  I'm sure the fact that the FCC agrees with me on that point is a plus or minus for many of you. : ).

But anyway, my suggested amendment to the proposed main theme title is: 'Open Mobile Internet.'

Three words both clear and ambiguous enough to leave room for multiple interpretations, which seems a requirement for an IGF theme...

Lee
________________________________________
From: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org [governance-request at lists.cpsr.org] On Behalf Of Fouad Bajwa [fouadbajwa at gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2011 8:04 PM
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; parminder
Cc: Jeremy Malcolm
Subject: Re: [governance] Agenda for IGF Nairobi - IGC proposals

after giving some more thought to the Mobile Network Neutrality
topics, why not propose it as:

Wired and Wireless Network Neutrality - W2 at NN



On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 12:06 PM, Fouad Bajwa <fouadbajwa at gmail.com> wrote:
> We should begin with forwarding these suggestion well beforehand. Many
> of the MAG members from developing regions will not be able to make it
> to the upcoming MAG and open consultation meetings and will be mostly
> around through remote participation.
>
> My question regarding the topic of 'Network Neutrality' or now '
> Mobile Network Neutrality' is that how should this be conveyed? NN is
> easier to raise and pass through and have MNN listed in the sub-topics
> because its a term almost everyone is aware of within the IGF
> community but MNN will be a bit of confusion otherwise and might
> create the same kind of resistance that happens around when the issue
> around HR or IRP has been raised in the past? We know how things are
> with new-terms in the process.
>
> The 'development agenda for IG' should remain an important focus to be
> included and I will sustain my position with regards to it and revive
> the cross-community working group to organize it should we be able to
> table it through.
>
> 'Cross border Issues and implications of IG' is a good topic and yes
> CoE is discussing it with a major activity happening around April this
> year on the issue and we can liaise with the CoE representatives to
> table this issue as a main session topic.
>
> Can we detail these topics out also to assist the MAG members from CS
> to present, deliberate and sustain their ground.
>
> An important thing that can be done is that we create a yearly focus
> of topics that are also detailed out with all these references like
> the one from Sala's message so that it can be used as a reference
> point to make both statements, IGC position information and other
> discussion pointers.
>
> -- Best
>
> Fouad
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 3:20 PM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> wrote:
>> Hi Jeremy
>>
>> I think we should two separate threads for the next IGF's agenda, which
>> hopefully will be taken up in the Feb MAG meeting, and for our inputs into
>> the WG on IGF improvements. Both are very distinct issues and separately
>> quite important . So excuse me to have this thread on 'agenda for IGF
>> Nairobi'.
>>
>> I am particularly eager to get this discussion going, because I feel that
>> IGC should be doing much more on substantive issues, and its almost singular
>> focus on process issues is what has kept it insulated from much of the civil
>> society outside the IG realm, which compromises its legitimacy.
>>
>> In middle of the hot discussions on composition of the WG on IGF
>> improvements, Sala posted an email on the (globally) historic FCC decision
>> on network neutrality. While there are some good points there, there has
>> been a sellout on excluding mobile Internet from regulations disallowing
>> pay-for-priority. (To read this in the context of my earielr emails pointing
>> to how mobile Internet in India is already breaching NN boundaries.)
>>
>> This FC decision has the potential of splitting up the Internet into the
>> open fixed line variety and corporate content dominated mobile Internet. Why
>> should there be two kinds of Internet? Why do freedoms and rights count on
>> one kind and are not so important on the mobile Internet? What does this
>> mean for developing countries where mobile is slated to become the by far
>> the dominant platform for Internet?
>>
>> I also consider it very significant that it is perhaps the first time ever
>> in any substantial policy matter of such huge consequence that the policy
>> framework was largely written up as a result of negotiations between two
>> largest corporate players in the area - google and verizon - and then the
>> government rubber stamped it. If this the new global governance model we are
>> moving towards? I keep getting this picture in my mind of our health policy
>> frameworks soon being written by drug companies and health insurance
>> companies, and maybe the large private hospital chains, if they are big
>> enough, before plaint governments rubber stamp it. That is exactly what
>> happened in the present instance vis a vis the new communication
>> infrastructure of the Internet that came with such egalitarian promises.
>>
>> Anyway back to the topic,
>>
>> The next IGF just must take up 'Network Neutrality' or in fact ' Mobile
>> Network Neutrality' as its key plenary theme. Otherwise IGF and the real
>> world IG would be two very different worlds.
>>
>> It should also continue with the plenary topic - 'development agenda for IG'
>>
>> And I propose a third topic
>>
>> 'Cross border Issues and implications of IG'
>>
>> CoE is discussing it, no reason why IGF should not.
>>
>> Parminder
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeremy Malcolm wrote:
>>
>> I would like us to move towards preparing a submission about the
>> programme of the 2011 IGF meeting.  Simultaneously, we can discuss IGF
>> improvements, which if minor could go into that submission, but
>> otherwise can be input for our new CSTD working group on the IGF.
>>
>> This is an exercise that we have, of course, gone through before.  So it
>> is useful for us to look at some previous submissions on the programme
>> of the IGF and on improvements, and see what we can simply rewrite and
>> reuse.  Here are relevant links:
>>
>> PROGRAMME:
>>
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/8 (Hyderabad)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/5 (Sharm)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/26 (Sharm)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/32 (Sharm)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/34 (Vilnius)
>>
>> IMPROVEMENTS:
>>
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/6 (funding, deeper discussion, WGs)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/7 (format improvements, IGF as town-hall)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/9 (MAG improvements)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/30 (MAG, funding, intersessional work)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/33 (MAG, outputs, intersessional work)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/41 (MAG improvements, links from IGF)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/45 (outputs, difficult issues, virtual IGF)
>>
>> I would suggest that people go through these and pick out the highlights
>> that they would like to reiterate... as well, of course, as contributing
>> any new points in light of the changed landscape since last November.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> PK
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>



--
Regards.
--------------------------
Fouad Bajwa
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
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For all other list information and functions, see:
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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

____________________________________________________________
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To be removed from the list, visit:
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For all other list information and functions, see:
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To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t



____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


From ias_pk at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 17 03:43:47 2011
From: ias_pk at yahoo.com (Imran Ahmed Shah)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 00:43:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [governance] Advance notice of the need to move this list
In-Reply-To: <sympa.1295230889.33920.988@lists.cpsr.org>
References: <sympa.1295230889.33920.988@lists.cpsr.org>
Message-ID: <35687.48906.qm@web33005.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Dear Jeremy,
 
With reference to following email regarding discussion about the hosting and 
mailing list portability options, and as you mentioned about the immediate need 
for replacement of the servers, would you please inform that how much storage do 
you need on the hosting server? Current mailing list 
governance at lists.cpsr.org is Sympa base mailing application, if you can port it 
onto mailman (Python), we can offer following two options:
 
1.    on behalf of IGFPAK.org can offer to provide shared hosting to add 
domain of "igcaucus.org" and mailing list with Mailman application.  (Pakistan 
IGF will bear the cost for a common initiatives).
 
2.    If you need cPanel + 24x7 support as well, select the Shared Hosting 
Package (according to the size of storage required) on netconfident.net and 
confirmation either about Sympa Compliance mailing list otherwise ready to 
migrate mailing list onto Python Engine (Mailman) and inform me. I will arrange 
the account for IGCaucus.Org, regardless the funding collection process (or time 
schedule) to bear the costs you decide. 

 
If you my help, just inform me.
 
Thanking you and Best Regards
 
Imran Ahmed Shah
________________________________
From: "jeremy at ciroap.org" <jeremy at ciroap.org>
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; roland at internetpolicyagency.com
Sent: Mon, 17 January, 2011 7:26:23
Subject: Re: Re: [governance] Advance notice of the need to move this list

(My email is down again so I'm replying from the Web archive.)  To avoid the 
list being at igf-online.net, we would need to move the Web site and the mailing 
list into the same place.  I can't give much of a commitment from Consumers 
International about continuity (because everything depends on funding for my 
project work at CI), so the other option is for us to raise some funds and hire 
our own virtual server, where everything can be consolidated under our existing 
igcaucus.org domain.  Does anyone prefer that option?  I suspect it would not be 
too hard to raise the necessary funds, even if just with a "Donate" button on 
our Web site.  We are talking about around $10/month.  In the past there was 
talk about making an application for a grant from a donor like the UN Democracy 
Fund, but this raised people's fears about over-institutionalising the IGC, 
so...
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
    governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
    http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
    http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
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____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
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     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


From roland at internetpolicyagency.com  Mon Jan 17 02:34:51 2011
From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 07:34:51 +0000
Subject: [governance] Advance notice of the need to move this list
In-Reply-To: <sympa.1295230889.33920.988@lists.cpsr.org>
References: <0uNmPSdvqMMNFAay@internetpolicyagency.com>
 <sympa.1295230889.33920.988@lists.cpsr.org>
Message-ID: <+VgURB$bE$MNFApl@internetpolicyagency.com>

In message <sympa.1295230889.33920.988 at lists.cpsr.org>, at 18:26:23 on 
Sun, 16 Jan 2011, jeremy at ciroap.org writes
>To avoid the list being at igf-online.net, we would need to move the
>Web site and the mailing list into the same place.

You are already talking about moving the website and mailing list to the 
same place (CI), all I'm suggesting is arranging for the names to be the 
same. Even if there are disjoint hardware and software solutions for the 
wiki and the mailing list, the DNS will glue them together under one 
URL.

-- 
Roland Perry
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


From lmcknigh at syr.edu  Mon Jan 17 11:28:50 2011
From: lmcknigh at syr.edu (Lee W McKnight)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 11:28:50 -0500
Subject: [governance] Agenda for IGF Nairobi - IGC proposals
In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8A076A6@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
References: <1294902402.25480.696.camel@terminus-Aspire-L320>
 <4D302387.5070203@itforchange.net>
 <AANLkTikvNgZ8UrMuL_tL_-Mf5wOoAFmOobUadkt-ZFu_@mail.gmail.com>
 <AANLkTimVU1stP18YEmnY4w0Q55BsOFzFNtrxTQ5Hv0HC@mail.gmail.com>
 <93F4C2F3D19A03439EAC16D47C591DDE03300070D5@suex07-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu>,<2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8A076A6@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
Message-ID: <93F4C2F3D19A03439EAC16D47C591DDE03300070DF@suex07-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu>

Wolfgang,

OK, point taken, the world definitely needs more acronyms. 

Kidding. 

(But Fouad I do agree with Wolfgang it is a really good acronym. Since Tim Wu has wandered off to other topics you could get a book deal with that one I bet...seriously.)

Still for IGF VI, W2 at NN  would concede the possibility that there should be different rules for wired and wireless - Internet. 

My 2 cents.

Lee
________________________________________
From: "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" [wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de]
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 3:38 AM
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Lee W McKnight; governance at lists.cpsr.org; Fouad Bajwa; parminder
Cc: Jeremy Malcolm
Subject: AW: [governance] Agenda for IGF Nairobi - IGC proposals

Thanks Lee

good point. And BRW, "open Internet" relates closer to the orginal themes of the IGFm, whicn included "Openess" as one of the five key subjects for discussion. However I likle the acronym "W2 at NN" :-))))

wolfgang

________________________________

Von: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org im Auftrag von Lee W McKnight
Gesendet: So 16.01.2011 17:53
An: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Fouad Bajwa; parminder
Cc: Jeremy Malcolm
Betreff: RE: [governance] Agenda for IGF Nairobi - IGC proposals



The FCC 'NN rules' doc Parminder referenced is actually titled 'open Internet'...I scanned and did find the words 'network neutrality' in some footnotes.

So while 'Network Neutrality' is the popular phraseology, there is a reason the actual regulations are for 'open Internet' which as some may recall is the phraseology which I have been suggesting all along is a more accurate rendering of what is desired, and desirable.

Now my 2 points:

1) 'open Internet' logically includes both wired and wireless nets, as well as heterogeneous nets including both wired and wireless pieces. The third  category happens to be most of our daily realities in Internet access, services and use.

2) the FCC regs are therefore logically inconsistent if they claim one set of rules for -wired - and another for - wireless, and are at 95% confidence level imho likely to be challenged in court within a year.

Because of 1) and 2) and the usual industry squabbles the FCC rules are far from the last word on net neutrality or open Internet thematic  in the US; I suspect sooner or later new legislation for ensuring an - open Internet - will be needed. And the artifical boundary of one set of rules for wired and another for wireless, won't stand up to the scrutiny.

In sum, for IGF thematic reasons I understand going with the 'headline news' version of the issue - ie the phrase network neutrality - but for actual progress towards a global - open Internet - I continue to suggest the better phrase is - open Internet.  I'm sure the fact that the FCC agrees with me on that point is a plus or minus for many of you. : ).

But anyway, my suggested amendment to the proposed main theme title is: 'Open Mobile Internet.'

Three words both clear and ambiguous enough to leave room for multiple interpretations, which seems a requirement for an IGF theme...

Lee
________________________________________
From: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org [governance-request at lists.cpsr.org] On Behalf Of Fouad Bajwa [fouadbajwa at gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2011 8:04 PM
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; parminder
Cc: Jeremy Malcolm
Subject: Re: [governance] Agenda for IGF Nairobi - IGC proposals

after giving some more thought to the Mobile Network Neutrality
topics, why not propose it as:

Wired and Wireless Network Neutrality - W2 at NN



On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 12:06 PM, Fouad Bajwa <fouadbajwa at gmail.com> wrote:
> We should begin with forwarding these suggestion well beforehand. Many
> of the MAG members from developing regions will not be able to make it
> to the upcoming MAG and open consultation meetings and will be mostly
> around through remote participation.
>
> My question regarding the topic of 'Network Neutrality' or now '
> Mobile Network Neutrality' is that how should this be conveyed? NN is
> easier to raise and pass through and have MNN listed in the sub-topics
> because its a term almost everyone is aware of within the IGF
> community but MNN will be a bit of confusion otherwise and might
> create the same kind of resistance that happens around when the issue
> around HR or IRP has been raised in the past? We know how things are
> with new-terms in the process.
>
> The 'development agenda for IG' should remain an important focus to be
> included and I will sustain my position with regards to it and revive
> the cross-community working group to organize it should we be able to
> table it through.
>
> 'Cross border Issues and implications of IG' is a good topic and yes
> CoE is discussing it with a major activity happening around April this
> year on the issue and we can liaise with the CoE representatives to
> table this issue as a main session topic.
>
> Can we detail these topics out also to assist the MAG members from CS
> to present, deliberate and sustain their ground.
>
> An important thing that can be done is that we create a yearly focus
> of topics that are also detailed out with all these references like
> the one from Sala's message so that it can be used as a reference
> point to make both statements, IGC position information and other
> discussion pointers.
>
> -- Best
>
> Fouad
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 3:20 PM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> wrote:
>> Hi Jeremy
>>
>> I think we should two separate threads for the next IGF's agenda, which
>> hopefully will be taken up in the Feb MAG meeting, and for our inputs into
>> the WG on IGF improvements. Both are very distinct issues and separately
>> quite important . So excuse me to have this thread on 'agenda for IGF
>> Nairobi'.
>>
>> I am particularly eager to get this discussion going, because I feel that
>> IGC should be doing much more on substantive issues, and its almost singular
>> focus on process issues is what has kept it insulated from much of the civil
>> society outside the IG realm, which compromises its legitimacy.
>>
>> In middle of the hot discussions on composition of the WG on IGF
>> improvements, Sala posted an email on the (globally) historic FCC decision
>> on network neutrality. While there are some good points there, there has
>> been a sellout on excluding mobile Internet from regulations disallowing
>> pay-for-priority. (To read this in the context of my earielr emails pointing
>> to how mobile Internet in India is already breaching NN boundaries.)
>>
>> This FC decision has the potential of splitting up the Internet into the
>> open fixed line variety and corporate content dominated mobile Internet. Why
>> should there be two kinds of Internet? Why do freedoms and rights count on
>> one kind and are not so important on the mobile Internet? What does this
>> mean for developing countries where mobile is slated to become the by far
>> the dominant platform for Internet?
>>
>> I also consider it very significant that it is perhaps the first time ever
>> in any substantial policy matter of such huge consequence that the policy
>> framework was largely written up as a result of negotiations between two
>> largest corporate players in the area - google and verizon - and then the
>> government rubber stamped it. If this the new global governance model we are
>> moving towards? I keep getting this picture in my mind of our health policy
>> frameworks soon being written by drug companies and health insurance
>> companies, and maybe the large private hospital chains, if they are big
>> enough, before plaint governments rubber stamp it. That is exactly what
>> happened in the present instance vis a vis the new communication
>> infrastructure of the Internet that came with such egalitarian promises.
>>
>> Anyway back to the topic,
>>
>> The next IGF just must take up 'Network Neutrality' or in fact ' Mobile
>> Network Neutrality' as its key plenary theme. Otherwise IGF and the real
>> world IG would be two very different worlds.
>>
>> It should also continue with the plenary topic - 'development agenda for IG'
>>
>> And I propose a third topic
>>
>> 'Cross border Issues and implications of IG'
>>
>> CoE is discussing it, no reason why IGF should not.
>>
>> Parminder
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeremy Malcolm wrote:
>>
>> I would like us to move towards preparing a submission about the
>> programme of the 2011 IGF meeting.  Simultaneously, we can discuss IGF
>> improvements, which if minor could go into that submission, but
>> otherwise can be input for our new CSTD working group on the IGF.
>>
>> This is an exercise that we have, of course, gone through before.  So it
>> is useful for us to look at some previous submissions on the programme
>> of the IGF and on improvements, and see what we can simply rewrite and
>> reuse.  Here are relevant links:
>>
>> PROGRAMME:
>>
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/8 (Hyderabad)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/5 (Sharm)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/26 (Sharm)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/32 (Sharm)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/34 (Vilnius)
>>
>> IMPROVEMENTS:
>>
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/6 (funding, deeper discussion, WGs)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/7 (format improvements, IGF as town-hall)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/9 (MAG improvements)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/30 (MAG, funding, intersessional work)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/33 (MAG, outputs, intersessional work)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/41 (MAG improvements, links from IGF)
>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/45 (outputs, difficult issues, virtual IGF)
>>
>> I would suggest that people go through these and pick out the highlights
>> that they would like to reiterate... as well, of course, as contributing
>> any new points in light of the changed landscape since last November.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> PK
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>



--
Regards.
--------------------------
Fouad Bajwa
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
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From bdelachapelle at gmail.com  Mon Jan 17 14:02:16 2011
From: bdelachapelle at gmail.com (Bertrand de La Chapelle)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 20:02:16 +0100
Subject: [governance] Agenda for IGF Nairobi - IGC proposals
In-Reply-To: <4D302387.5070203@itforchange.net>
References: <1294902402.25480.696.camel@terminus-Aspire-L320> <4D302387.5070203@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikJPLhGpQJcOR=YMUgfEo1WNeQkscwYA7pLxacz@mail.gmail.com>

Just briefly, I think Parminder raises an interesting question regarding
different rules (or not) for the mobile Internet and the fixed one.

Basically, this is about a significant change from the Internet initial
incarnation (mostly PCs, connected by wires, with browsers) to  the
diversification of platforms and infrastructures, not to mention social
services that become quasi-territories with their own rules, and the
emergence of apps on mobiles and tablets (putting some actors as new
gatekeepers).

Another element is the impact of regulations in some countries that have
major operators and the possible spillover/percolation effect in other
countries.

I suppose his suggestion would mean having such subjects as key themes in
the main sessions - or in the emerging issues one - in complement to
possible workshops.

I am not sure what the best formulation would be. But there clearly is an
important issue there worth exploring. There is a need for a neutral
formulation that does not prejudge the solution but presents the issue as a
common question/problem. Suggestions welcome.

Best

Bertrand





On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 11:20 AM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>wrote:

>  Hi Jeremy
>
> I think we should two separate threads for the next IGF's agenda, which
> hopefully will be taken up in the Feb MAG meeting, and for our inputs into
> the WG on IGF improvements. Both are very distinct issues and separately
> quite important . So excuse me to have this thread on 'agenda for IGF
> Nairobi'.
>
> I am particularly eager to get this discussion going, because I feel that
> IGC should be doing much more on substantive issues, and its almost singular
> focus on process issues is what has kept it insulated from much of the civil
> society outside the IG realm, which compromises its legitimacy.
>
> In middle of the hot discussions on composition of the WG on IGF
> improvements, Sala posted an email on the (globally) historic FCC decision
> on network neutrality. While there are some good points there, there has
> been a sellout on excluding mobile Internet from regulations disallowing
> pay-for-priority. (To read this in the context of my earielr emails pointing
> to how mobile Internet in India is already breaching NN boundaries.)
>
> This FC decision has the potential of splitting up the Internet into the
> open fixed line variety and corporate content dominated mobile Internet. Why
> should there be two kinds of Internet? Why do freedoms and rights count on
> one kind and are not so important on the mobile Internet? What does this
> mean for developing countries where mobile is slated to become the by far
> the dominant platform for Internet?
>
> I also consider it very significant that it is perhaps the first time ever
> in any substantial policy matter of such huge consequence that the policy
> framework was largely written up as a result of negotiations between two
> largest corporate players in the area - google and verizon - and then the
> government rubber stamped it. If this the new global governance model we are
> moving towards? I keep getting this picture in my mind of our health policy
> frameworks soon being written by drug companies and health insurance
> companies, and maybe the large private hospital chains, if they are big
> enough, before plaint governments rubber stamp it. That is exactly what
> happened in the present instance vis a vis the new communication
> infrastructure of the Internet that came with such egalitarian promises.
>
> Anyway back to the topic,
>
> The next IGF just must take up 'Network Neutrality' or in fact ' Mobile
> Network Neutrality' as its key plenary theme. Otherwise IGF and the real
> world IG would be two very different worlds.
>
> It should also continue with the plenary topic - 'development agenda for
> IG'
>
> And I propose a third topic
>
> 'Cross border Issues and implications of IG'
>
> CoE is discussing it, no reason why IGF should not.
>
> Parminder
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jeremy Malcolm wrote:
>
> I would like us to move towards preparing a submission about the
> programme of the 2011 IGF meeting.  Simultaneously, we can discuss IGF
> improvements, which if minor could go into that submission, but
> otherwise can be input for our new CSTD working group on the IGF.
>
> This is an exercise that we have, of course, gone through before.  So it
> is useful for us to look at some previous submissions on the programme
> of the IGF and on improvements, and see what we can simply rewrite and
> reuse.  Here are relevant links:
>
> PROGRAMME:
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/8 (Hyderabad)http://www.igcaucus.org/node/5 (Sharm)http://www.igcaucus.org/node/26 (Sharm)http://www.igcaucus.org/node/32 (Sharm)http://www.igcaucus.org/node/34 (Vilnius)
>
> IMPROVEMENTS:
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/6 (funding, deeper discussion, WGs)http://www.igcaucus.org/node/7 (format improvements, IGF as town-hall)http://www.igcaucus.org/node/9 (MAG improvements)http://www.igcaucus.org/node/30 (MAG, funding, intersessional work)http://www.igcaucus.org/node/33 (MAG, outputs, intersessional work)http://www.igcaucus.org/node/41 (MAG improvements, links from IGF)http://www.igcaucus.org/node/45 (outputs, difficult issues, virtual IGF)
>
> I would suggest that people go through these and pick out the highlights
> that they would like to reiterate... as well, of course, as contributing
> any new points in light of the changed landscape since last November.
>
>
>
>
> --
> PK
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
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>
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>
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>
>
>


-- 
____________________
Bertrand de La Chapelle
Tel : +33 (0)6 11 88 33 32

"Le plus beau métier des hommes, c'est d'unir les hommes" Antoine de Saint
Exupéry
("there is no greater mission for humans than uniting humans")
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From mueller at syr.edu  Mon Jan 17 14:29:28 2011
From: mueller at syr.edu (Milton L Mueller)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 14:29:28 -0500
Subject: [governance] Internet Governance Project Headlines
Message-ID: <75822E125BCB994F8446858C4B19F0D70AC15A6C37@SUEX07-MBX-04.ad.syr.edu>

[http://internetgovernance.org/images/IGP_logo_Masthead2.gif]

January 17, 2011

The most dangerous man in America then; the "most dangerous" man in the world now?
Dutch Study: Between 5-10 percent of all broadband users were part of a botnet
Call for Papers: Global Internet Governance: Research and Public Policy Challenges for the Next Decade
What is Evgeny Morozov Trying to Prove? A review of "The Net Delusion"
China, TLD censorship top topics in 2010
Guest blog: California Law Is No Impediment to Holding ICANN Accountable
The UN Sticks its Head in the Sand
Fate of new TLDs to be settled in private
Search Internet Governance Project Headlines<http://www.feedblitz.com/f?Search=175425>
________________________________
The most dangerous man in America then; the "most dangerous" man in the world now? <http://feedblitz.com/r.asp?l=53102144&f=175425&u=11399627&c=3961842>

Last night I got a chance to view the excellent 2009 documentary film “The Most Dangerous Man in America: Daniel Ellsberg and the Pentagon Papers<http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/175425/11399627/3961842/http://www.mostdangerousman.org/>.” Of course, it is impossible to mention the Pentagon Papers now without thinking “Wikileaks,” and I admit that it was an interest in the parallels and differences in the cases that put that selection in my Netflix queue. It turned out to be a far more rewarding choice than I had expected. The film brings the 40-year old Ellsberg/Pentagon Papers sequence of events to life as vividly as the Private Manning/Wikileaks case is alive now. And without that historical knowledge and context one’s awareness of the Wikileaks case is impoverished. A fascinating aspect of this film is the way it documents how different the technological and publishing environment was - but one is also struck by the similarities in the political debate. Despite efforts to drive a wedge between Ellsberg and Wikileaks,<http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/175425/11399627/3961842/http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204527804576044020396601528.html?mg=com-wsj#articleTabs%3Dcomments> this documentary, which was made more than a year before the Wikileaks controversy hit, shows how fundamentally similar the cases are.
[http://assets.feedblitz.com/images/icons/fblike.png]<http://www.feedblitz.com/f?FBLike=http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/IGPBlogCombined/~3/Oec9BftzMDg/4727867.html>  • Email to a friend<http://www.feedblitz.com/f/f.fbz?Fwd2FriendEdit=175425;12422;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/IGPBlogCombined/~3/Oec9BftzMDg/4727867.html;The%20most%20dangerous%20man%20in%20America%20then;%20the%20%22most%20dangerous%22%20man%20in%20the%20world%20now?;3961842> • Article Search<http://www.feedblitz.com/f/f.fbz?Search=175425;12422;Main%20Page;The%20most%20dangerous%20man%20in%20America%20then;%20the%20%22most%20dangerous%22%20man%20in%20the%20world%20now?;3961842> • [http://assets.feedblitz.com/images/audio.png] <http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/175425/11399627/3961842/http://www.talkr.com/app/text_to_audio.app?feed_url=http%3a%2f%2ffeeds.feedburner.com%2fIGPBlogCombined&permalink=http%3a%2f%2ffeedproxy.google.com%2f~r%2fIGPBlogCombined%2f~3%2fOec9BftzMDg%2f4727867.html&src=5> •


Dutch Study: Between 5-10 percent of all broadband users were part of a botnet <http://feedblitz.com/r.asp?l=53048941&f=175425&u=11399627&c=3961842>

Between 5 to 10 percent of all broadband subscribers in the Netherlands had their computers recruited into a botnet in 2009. For 2010, the numbers are likely to be higher. These infection rates are similar in most other Western countries, we report in a study that was released yesterday.

Commissioned by the Dutch Ministry of Economic Affairs, my colleagues Hadi Asghari, Johannes Bauer and Shirin Tabatabaie and I have prepared a fact-finding study entitled ‘Internet service providers and botnet mitigation’. The ministry has now publicly released the English and anonymized version of the report. It can be downloaded here<http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/175425/11399627/3961842/http://www.rijksoverheid.nl/documenten-en-publicaties/rapporten/2011/01/13/internet-service-providers-and-botnet-mitigation.html>. The confidential findings of our study were only shared with the ministry and the Dutch ISPs that are collaborating in a covenant to fight botnets<http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/175425/11399627/3961842/http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/when-it-meets-politics/2009/09/learning-from-the-dutch---isps.html>.

The report also contains rankings of the infection rates of ISPs in 40 countries. Somewhere in the next few days, we’ll write a more detailed blog post about the findings.
[http://assets.feedblitz.com/images/icons/fblike.png]<http://www.feedblitz.com/f?FBLike=http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/IGPBlogCombined/~3/SM7uSYZ2Pn0/4726890.html>  • Email to a friend<http://www.feedblitz.com/f/f.fbz?Fwd2FriendEdit=175425;12422;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/IGPBlogCombined/~3/SM7uSYZ2Pn0/4726890.html;Dutch%20Study:%20Between%205-10%20percent%20of%20all%20broadband%20users%20were%20part%20of%20a%20botnet;3961842> • Article Search<http://www.feedblitz.com/f/f.fbz?Search=175425;12422;Main%20Page;Dutch%20Study:%20Between%205-10%20percent%20of%20all%20broadband%20users%20were%20part%20of%20a%20botnet;3961842> • [http://assets.feedblitz.com/images/audio.png] <http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/175425/11399627/3961842/http://www.talkr.com/app/text_to_audio.app?feed_url=http%3a%2f%2ffeeds.feedburner.com%2fIGPBlogCombined&permalink=http%3a%2f%2ffeedproxy.google.com%2f~r%2fIGPBlogCombined%2f~3%2fSM7uSYZ2Pn0%2f4726890.html&src=5> •


Call for Papers: Global Internet Governance: Research and Public Policy Challenges for the Next Decade <http://feedblitz.com/r.asp?l=53041088&f=175425&u=11399627&c=3961842>

May 5 and 6, 2011
American University, School of International Service, Washington, DC

Building on the success of its first four regional workshops in Paris, France (2008), Brussels, Belgium (2009), Seoul, So. Korea (2009) and Montreal, Canada (2010), the purpose of the Washington, DC regional GigaNet workshop is twofold: Day one (May 5) is dedicated to outreach sessions exploring issues in global Internet governance among policy makers, academics and civil society at large. Day two (May 6) features presentations of scholarly research based on a rigorous peer reviewed selection process.

Deadline for abstract submissions is February 14, 2011. Submissions can be made through the Easy Chair web site<http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/175425/11399627/3961842/https://www.easychair.org/conferences/?conf=giganetdc2011>.

Decisions will be made by March 15, 2011.

Manuscripts expected by April 18, 2011.

[http://assets.feedblitz.com/images/icons/fblike.png]<http://www.feedblitz.com/f?FBLike=http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/IGPBlogCombined/~3/G2oc-0YpN74/4726798.html>  • Email to a friend<http://www.feedblitz.com/f/f.fbz?Fwd2FriendEdit=175425;12422;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/IGPBlogCombined/~3/G2oc-0YpN74/4726798.html;Call%20for%20Papers:%20Global%20Internet%20Governance:%20Research%20and%20Public%20Policy%20Challenges%20for%20the%20Next%20Decade;3961842> • Article Search<http://www.feedblitz.com/f/f.fbz?Search=175425;12422;CFPs,Main%20Page;Call%20for%20Papers:%20Global%20Internet%20Governance:%20Research%20and%20Public%20Policy%20Challenges%20for%20the%20Next%20Decade;3961842> • [http://assets.feedblitz.com/images/audio.png] <http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/175425/11399627/3961842/http://www.talkr.com/app/text_to_audio.app?feed_url=http%3a%2f%2ffeeds.feedburner.com%2fIGPBlogCombined&permalink=http%3a%2f%2ffeedproxy.google.com%2f~r%2fIGPBlogCombined%2f~3%2fG2oc-0YpN74%2f4726798.html&src=5> •


What is Evgeny Morozov Trying to Prove? A review of "The Net Delusion" <http://feedblitz.com/r.asp?l=53039615&f=175425&u=11399627&c=3961842>

Evgeny Morozov’s new book “The Net Delusion: The Dark Side of Internet Freedom”<http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/175425/11399627/3961842/http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1586488740/ref=nosim/intergoverpro-20> deserves an extensive review here. It grapples with key questions of Internet governance in a highly original way. But it is also a frustrating book to try to make sense of. The tone of the work is urgent but the take-home message is murky, if not confused and contradictory.

Here is an example of the kind of phenomenon that gives me concern. One of the many promotional events for the book summarizes its theme as follows<http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/175425/11399627/3961842/http://benton.org/node/47086>: “It is not the young protestors and dissidents but rather the regimes in Teheran and Beijing that are the Web's greatest beneficiaries.” Having read the book, I can say conclusively that that assertion is false on two counts: it is not an accurate encapsulation of what the book actually says, nor is it true of the real world as a general rule. But as we will see, Morozov himself is directly responsible for these kinds of misinterpretations. The book’s aura of Internet-powered publicity seems designed to capitalize on simplistic inversions of conventional wisdom (it makes for great tweets and sound bites, after all). And the book’s analysis is so full of logical contradictions that one could, in fact, find support for that interpretation - and many others as well.

[http://assets.feedblitz.com/images/icons/fblike.png]<http://www.feedblitz.com/f?FBLike=http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/IGPBlogCombined/~3/Wx9SvEVjcP4/4726219.html>  • Email to a friend<http://www.feedblitz.com/f/f.fbz?Fwd2FriendEdit=175425;12422;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/IGPBlogCombined/~3/Wx9SvEVjcP4/4726219.html;What%20is%20Evgeny%20Morozov%20Trying%20to%20Prove?%20A%20review%20of%20%22The%20Net%20Delusion%22;3961842> • Article Search<http://www.feedblitz.com/f/f.fbz?Search=175425;12422;Main%20Page;What%20is%20Evgeny%20Morozov%20Trying%20to%20Prove?%20A%20review%20of%20%22The%20Net%20Delusion%22;3961842> • [http://assets.feedblitz.com/images/audio.png] <http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/175425/11399627/3961842/http://www.talkr.com/app/text_to_audio.app?feed_url=http%3a%2f%2ffeeds.feedburner.com%2fIGPBlogCombined&permalink=http%3a%2f%2ffeedproxy.google.com%2f~r%2fIGPBlogCombined%2f~3%2fWx9SvEVjcP4%2f4726219.html&src=5> •


China, TLD censorship top topics in 2010 <http://feedblitz.com/r.asp?l=52771505&f=175425&u=11399627&c=3961842>

Judging from IGP blog's readership, which grew by about 25% compared to last year, the most interesting and important topics we covered were China's impact on Internet governance and the nexus between internet censorship and new Top-Level Domains. Wikileaks was third, with ICANN accountability rounding out the top of the pack. Individual posts on COICA, the Bredolab botnet prosecution, vertical integration and the move away from multistakeholderism at IGF also found their way into IGP's most popular blog posts (see below for a list of the top 15).

Our 8 December post framing the Wikileaks controversy as an Internet governance issue was the single most-read blog post in 2010 by far. Apparently, our emphasis on the continuing tension between nation-states and networked information via the Internet struck a chord.

But the "cyberwar" over Wikileaks only happened in the last month of the year. China and the Internet, on the other hand, was an unfolding series of events we covered throughout the year, and generated more traffic. Readers flocked to our discussion of China's attempt to implement "real name registration" requirements for online bulletins, especially after Blizzard Entertainment, producer of World of Warcraft, tried to follow their precedent (and backed off<http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/175425/11399627/3961842/http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/706127/blizzard-backs-off-proposed-real-name-forum-policy.html>). But the Google-China and US-China conflicts also contributed great interest to this topic.

The TLD/censorship story was also an ongoing story only marginally less popular than China. It dealt with the the fate of the .xxx domain - still controversial and still targeted by some governments - as well as the attempt of the GAC to impose more general "morality and public order" restraints on new TLD applicants. We think we've made substantial progress in convincing more people that institutionalizing censorship via ICANN is an important - and potentially dangerous - precedent for global governance of the Internet.

[http://assets.feedblitz.com/images/icons/fblike.png]<http://www.feedblitz.com/f?FBLike=http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/IGPBlogCombined/~3/MpDffUCumOo/4716342.html>  • Email to a friend<http://www.feedblitz.com/f/f.fbz?Fwd2FriendEdit=175425;12422;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/IGPBlogCombined/~3/MpDffUCumOo/4716342.html;China,%20TLD%20censorship%20top%20topics%20in%202010;3961842> • Article Search<http://www.feedblitz.com/f/f.fbz?Search=175425;12422;Main%20Page;China,%20TLD%20censorship%20top%20topics%20in%202010;3961842> • [http://assets.feedblitz.com/images/audio.png] <http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/175425/11399627/3961842/http://www.talkr.com/app/text_to_audio.app?feed_url=http%3a%2f%2ffeeds.feedburner.com%2fIGPBlogCombined&permalink=http%3a%2f%2ffeedproxy.google.com%2f~r%2fIGPBlogCombined%2f~3%2fMpDffUCumOo%2f4716342.html&src=5> •


Guest blog: California Law Is No Impediment to Holding ICANN Accountable <http://feedblitz.com/r.asp?l=52514555&f=175425&u=11399627&c=3961842>

No other issue unites the Internet community quite like ICANN’s accountability deficit. Governments, contracted parties, commercial interests, NGOs, and ordinary Internet users—all have expressed their shared frustration that ICANN continues to evade real accountability.

The problem is partly explained by the complexity of ICANN’s structure and powers. It is both the overall global manager for the Internet DNS and a California nonprofit corporation. Its unique marriage of public power and private corporate form obscures familiar lines of thinking about how organizations work and how to improve their accountability.

But its unique form cannot alter ICANN’s legal character as a nonprofit corporation organized under, and therefore bound by, California law.

[http://assets.feedblitz.com/images/icons/fblike.png]<http://www.feedblitz.com/f?FBLike=http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/IGPBlogCombined/~3/TtoVYTZybR8/4707667.html>  • Email to a friend<http://www.feedblitz.com/f/f.fbz?Fwd2FriendEdit=175425;12422;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/IGPBlogCombined/~3/TtoVYTZybR8/4707667.html;Guest%20blog:%20California%20Law%20Is%20No%20Impediment%20to%20Holding%20ICANN%20Accountable;3961842> • Article Search<http://www.feedblitz.com/f/f.fbz?Search=175425;12422;Main%20Page;Guest%20blog:%20California%20Law%20Is%20No%20Impediment%20to%20Holding%20ICANN%20Accountable;3961842> • [http://assets.feedblitz.com/images/audio.png] <http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/175425/11399627/3961842/http://www.talkr.com/app/text_to_audio.app?feed_url=http%3a%2f%2ffeeds.feedburner.com%2fIGPBlogCombined&permalink=http%3a%2f%2ffeedproxy.google.com%2f~r%2fIGPBlogCombined%2f~3%2fTtoVYTZybR8%2f4707667.html&src=5> •


The UN Sticks its Head in the Sand <http://feedblitz.com/r.asp?l=52334170&f=175425&u=11399627&c=3961842>

Now, for sure, you can discard all that talk about a "UN takeover of the Internet." The only things the UN knows how to take over are its own obscure departments. On December 10 the UN's Committee on Science and Technology for Development (CSTD) announced that the Working Group on Improvements to the Internet Governance Forum (IGF) will be composed exclusively of member states. No civil society or business organizations, no academic or technical representatives will be allowed to participate.
[http://assets.feedblitz.com/images/icons/fblike.png]<http://www.feedblitz.com/f?FBLike=http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/IGPBlogCombined/~3/mglo-WJ81bA/4702148.html>  • Email to a friend<http://www.feedblitz.com/f/f.fbz?Fwd2FriendEdit=175425;12422;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/IGPBlogCombined/~3/mglo-WJ81bA/4702148.html;The%20UN%20Sticks%20its%20Head%20in%20the%20Sand;3961842> • Article Search<http://www.feedblitz.com/f/f.fbz?Search=175425;12422;Main%20Page;The%20UN%20Sticks%20its%20Head%20in%20the%20Sand;3961842> • [http://assets.feedblitz.com/images/audio.png] <http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/175425/11399627/3961842/http://www.talkr.com/app/text_to_audio.app?feed_url=http%3a%2f%2ffeeds.feedburner.com%2fIGPBlogCombined&permalink=http%3a%2f%2ffeedproxy.google.com%2f~r%2fIGPBlogCombined%2f~3%2fmglo-WJ81bA%2f4702148.html&src=5> •


Fate of new TLDs to be settled in private <http://feedblitz.com/r.asp?l=52299232&f=175425&u=11399627&c=3961842>

At the ICANN meeting in Colombia, the board passed resolutions<http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/175425/11399627/3961842/http://www.icann.org/en/minutes/resolutions-10dec10-en.htm#2> indicating that it is one last step away from implementing the program to create new top level domains. The board considers the problems of trademark protection, root scalability, mitigating malicious conduct and economic analysis <http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/175425/11399627/3961842/http://blog.internetgovernance.org/blog/_archives/2010/12/3/4694980.html> to be closed. But the Board recognized that censorship of top level domain strings on the grounds of "morality and public order" is still an open issue. Once again, the GAC has used the finalization process to reassert its power, which is not guided by any treaty or law.
[http://assets.feedblitz.com/images/icons/fblike.png]<http://www.feedblitz.com/f?FBLike=http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/IGPBlogCombined/~3/wISlJ1Kf0So/4700595.html>  • Email to a friend<http://www.feedblitz.com/f/f.fbz?Fwd2FriendEdit=175425;12422;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/IGPBlogCombined/~3/wISlJ1Kf0So/4700595.html;Fate%20of%20new%20TLDs%20to%20be%20settled%20in%20private;3961842> • Article Search<http://www.feedblitz.com/f/f.fbz?Search=175425;12422;Main%20Page;Fate%20of%20new%20TLDs%20to%20be%20settled%20in%20private;3961842> • [http://assets.feedblitz.com/images/audio.png] <http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/175425/11399627/3961842/http://www.talkr.com/app/text_to_audio.app?feed_url=http%3a%2f%2ffeeds.feedburner.com%2fIGPBlogCombined&permalink=http%3a%2f%2ffeedproxy.google.com%2f~r%2fIGPBlogCombined%2f~3%2fwISlJ1Kf0So%2f4700595.html&src=5> •




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From fouadbajwa at gmail.com  Mon Jan 17 17:52:45 2011
From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Bajwa)
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 03:52:45 +0500
Subject: [governance] The Internet in numbers in 2010
Message-ID: <AANLkTindaUDpwCodQygXwjqYYsF4qoEpJmaLiRaD2BDa@mail.gmail.com>

Asia has the largest Internet user base as of Internet 2010 in numbers

Source: http://royal.pingdom.com/2011/01/12/internet-2010-in-numbers/

Asia standing at 825.1 million – Internet users while 14% is the
increase in global Internet users since 2009.

-- 
Regards.
--------------------------
Fouad Bajwa
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From vanda at uol.com.br  Mon Jan 17 18:50:51 2011
From: vanda at uol.com.br (Vanda UOL)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 21:50:51 -0200
Subject: RES: [governance] Fwd: Re: [IAMCR] Tunis
In-Reply-To: <4D330A81.3020005@nupef.org.br>
References: <4D330A81.3020005@nupef.org.br>
Message-ID: <006901cbb6a1$60d039c0$2270ad40$@uol.com.br>

Quite interesting indeed Graciela. 

 

Vanda Scartezini

Polo Consultores Associados

IT Trend

Alameda Santos 1470 – 1407,8

01418-903 São Paulo,SP, Brasil

Tel + 5511 3266.6253

Mob + 55118181.1464

 

De: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.cpsr.org] Em nome de Graciela Selaimen
Enviada em: domingo, 16 de janeiro de 2011 13:11
Para: governance at lists.cpsr.org
Assunto: [governance] Fwd: Re: [IAMCR] Tunis

 

Intersting article.

best,
Graciela Selaimen - a 'Suleiman' in Tunisia.

		

Data: 

Fri, 14 Jan 2011 22:43:03 -0800


De: 

Sasha Costanza Chock  <mailto:costanza at usc.edu> <costanza at usc.edu>

		

: 

	

 

Ethan zuckerman has an excellent post here: http://www.ethanzuckerman.com/blog/2011/01/12/what-if-tunisia-had-a-revolution-but-nobody-watched/
 
-sc
 
 
>Any thoughts on events in Tunis, the site of the World Summit for the
>Information Society?
> 
> 
>      
> 
>_______________________________________________
>International Association for Media and Communication Research -
>http://iamcr.org
>Announcements mailing list
> 
>Join IAMCR |
>http://iamcr.org/about-iamcr/membership/join-iamcr-mainmenu-237
> 
>Follow IAMCR's updates on Twitter | http://twitter.com/IAMCRtweets
>Visit IAMCR's Facebook Page | http://www.facebook.com/iamcr.org
__________________
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From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de  Tue Jan 18 03:49:25 2011
From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang=22?=)
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 09:49:25 +0100
Subject: AW: [governance] Agenda for IGF Nairobi - IGC proposals
References: <1294902402.25480.696.camel@terminus-Aspire-L320>
 <4D302387.5070203@itforchange.net>
 <AANLkTikJPLhGpQJcOR=YMUgfEo1WNeQkscwYA7pLxacz@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID:  <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8A076C2@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>

Hi
 
good issue and worth to investigate deeper. Isn`t it also part of the "fragmentation" debate. 
 
In the 1990s, the risk for fragementation came with the alternative roots. This was rejected both by the market and also by ICANN in its famous Policy Paper "ICP-3: A Unique, Authoritative Root for the DNS", in:  http://www.icann.org/en/icp/icp-3.htm
 
Later the risk for fragmentation came with the iDNs when China started a test in 2002 with an own root server system with TLDs with Chinese characters. Thanks to the fast track on iDN ccTLDs this was avoided and now TLD Zone Files with Chinese, Cyrillic and other Non-ASCII charatcers are in the "authoritative root".
 
Is W2 at NN-debate now the third wave of the fragmentation discussion? Do will have different rules (including rules for numbering?) for fixed and mobile Internet?`
 
Good subject for an IGF workshop. And a good issue also for forming new coalitions :-)))
 
Wolfgang 

________________________________

Von: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org im Auftrag von Bertrand de La Chapelle
Gesendet: Mo 17.01.2011 20:02
An: governance at lists.cpsr.org; parminder
Cc: Jeremy Malcolm
Betreff: Re: [governance] Agenda for IGF Nairobi - IGC proposals


Just briefly, I think Parminder raises an interesting question regarding different rules (or not) for the mobile Internet and the fixed one. 

Basically, this is about a significant change from the Internet initial incarnation (mostly PCs, connected by wires, with browsers) to  the diversification of platforms and infrastructures, not to mention social services that become quasi-territories with their own rules, and the emergence of apps on mobiles and tablets (putting some actors as new gatekeepers). 

Another element is the impact of regulations in some countries that have major operators and the possible spillover/percolation effect in other countries. 

I suppose his suggestion would mean having such subjects as key themes in the main sessions - or in the emerging issues one - in complement to possible workshops. 

I am not sure what the best formulation would be. But there clearly is an important issue there worth exploring. There is a need for a neutral formulation that does not prejudge the solution but presents the issue as a common question/problem. Suggestions welcome. 

Best

Bertrand 

  



On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 11:20 AM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> wrote:


	Hi Jeremy
	
	I think we should two separate threads for the next IGF's agenda, which hopefully will be taken up in the Feb MAG meeting, and for our inputs into the WG on IGF improvements. Both are very distinct issues and separately quite important . So excuse me to have this thread on 'agenda for IGF Nairobi'.
	
	I am particularly eager to get this discussion going, because I feel that IGC should be doing much more on substantive issues, and its almost singular focus on process issues is what has kept it insulated from much of the civil society outside the IG realm, which compromises its legitimacy. 
	
	In middle of the hot discussions on composition of the WG on IGF improvements, Sala posted an email on the (globally) historic FCC decision on network neutrality. While there are some good points there, there has been a sellout on excluding mobile Internet from regulations disallowing pay-for-priority. (To read this in the context of my earielr emails pointing to how mobile Internet in India is already breaching NN boundaries.)
	
	This FC decision has the potential of splitting up the Internet into the open fixed line variety and corporate content dominated mobile Internet. Why should there be two kinds of Internet? Why do freedoms and rights count on one kind and are not so important on the mobile Internet? What does this mean for developing countries where mobile is slated to become the by far the dominant platform for Internet?
	
	I also consider it very significant that it is perhaps the first time ever in any substantial policy matter of such huge consequence that the policy framework was largely written up as a result of negotiations between two largest corporate players in the area - google and verizon - and then the government rubber stamped it. If this the new global governance model we are moving towards? I keep getting this picture in my mind of our health policy frameworks soon being written by drug companies and health insurance companies, and maybe the large private hospital chains, if they are big enough, before plaint governments rubber stamp it. That is exactly what happened in the present instance vis a vis the new communication infrastructure of the Internet that came with such egalitarian promises. 
	
	Anyway back to the topic,
	
	The next IGF just must take up 'Network Neutrality' or in fact ' Mobile Network Neutrality' as its key plenary theme. Otherwise IGF and the real world IG would be two very different worlds. 
	
	It should also continue with the plenary topic - 'development agenda for IG'
	
	And I propose a third topic
	
	'Cross border Issues and implications of IG'
	
	CoE is discussing it, no reason why IGF should not.
	
	Parminder 
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	Jeremy Malcolm wrote: 

		I would like us to move towards preparing a submission about the
		programme of the 2011 IGF meeting.  Simultaneously, we can discuss IGF
		improvements, which if minor could go into that submission, but
		otherwise can be input for our new CSTD working group on the IGF.
		
		This is an exercise that we have, of course, gone through before.  So it
		is useful for us to look at some previous submissions on the programme
		of the IGF and on improvements, and see what we can simply rewrite and
		reuse.  Here are relevant links:
		
		PROGRAMME:
		
		http://www.igcaucus.org/node/8 (Hyderabad)
		http://www.igcaucus.org/node/5 (Sharm)
		http://www.igcaucus.org/node/26 (Sharm)
		http://www.igcaucus.org/node/32 (Sharm)
		http://www.igcaucus.org/node/34 (Vilnius)
		
		IMPROVEMENTS:
		
		http://www.igcaucus.org/node/6 (funding, deeper discussion, WGs)
		http://www.igcaucus.org/node/7 (format improvements, IGF as town-hall)
		http://www.igcaucus.org/node/9 (MAG improvements)
		http://www.igcaucus.org/node/30 (MAG, funding, intersessional work)
		http://www.igcaucus.org/node/33 (MAG, outputs, intersessional work)
		http://www.igcaucus.org/node/41 (MAG improvements, links from IGF)
		http://www.igcaucus.org/node/45 (outputs, difficult issues, virtual IGF)
		
		I would suggest that people go through these and pick out the highlights
		that they would like to reiterate... as well, of course, as contributing
		any new points in light of the changed landscape since last November.
		
		  


	
	-- 
	PK   

	____________________________________________________________
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-- 
____________________
Bertrand de La Chapelle
Tel : +33 (0)6 11 88 33 32

"Le plus beau métier des hommes, c'est d'unir les hommes" Antoine de Saint Exupéry
("there is no greater mission for humans than uniting humans")

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From fouadbajwa at gmail.com  Tue Jan 18 04:06:06 2011
From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Bajwa)
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 14:06:06 +0500
Subject: [governance] Agenda for IGF Nairobi - IGC proposals
In-Reply-To: <93F4C2F3D19A03439EAC16D47C591DDE03300070DF@suex07-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu>
References: <1294902402.25480.696.camel@terminus-Aspire-L320>
	<4D302387.5070203@itforchange.net>
	<AANLkTikvNgZ8UrMuL_tL_-Mf5wOoAFmOobUadkt-ZFu_@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimVU1stP18YEmnY4w0Q55BsOFzFNtrxTQ5Hv0HC@mail.gmail.com>
	<93F4C2F3D19A03439EAC16D47C591DDE03300070D5@suex07-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu>
	<2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8A076A6@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
	<93F4C2F3D19A03439EAC16D47C591DDE03300070DF@suex07-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikt-Ge_Mm=z238JL1VFtG-6pcQv0D5atsY=oSMJ@mail.gmail.com>

Agreed Lee but how do you table the issue for consensus from all three
multistakholder groups? NN is native, dividing it is a challenge for
getting support for it and then going on in to different directions
causes us to weaken the subject, not strengthen it. Participants might
just go silent over the issue due to lack of substance.

-- Fouad

On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 9:28 PM, Lee W McKnight <lmcknigh at syr.edu> wrote:
> Wolfgang,
>
> OK, point taken, the world definitely needs more acronyms.
>
> Kidding.
>
> (But Fouad I do agree with Wolfgang it is a really good acronym. Since Tim Wu has wandered off to other topics you could get a book deal with that one I bet...seriously.)
>
> Still for IGF VI, W2 at NN  would concede the possibility that there should be different rules for wired and wireless - Internet.
>
> My 2 cents.
>
> Lee
> ________________________________________
> From: "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" [wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de]
> Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 3:38 AM
> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Lee W McKnight; governance at lists.cpsr.org; Fouad Bajwa; parminder
> Cc: Jeremy Malcolm
> Subject: AW: [governance] Agenda for IGF Nairobi - IGC proposals
>
> Thanks Lee
>
> good point. And BRW, "open Internet" relates closer to the orginal themes of the IGFm, whicn included "Openess" as one of the five key subjects for discussion. However I likle the acronym "W2 at NN" :-))))
>
> wolfgang
>
> ________________________________
>
> Von: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org im Auftrag von Lee W McKnight
> Gesendet: So 16.01.2011 17:53
> An: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Fouad Bajwa; parminder
> Cc: Jeremy Malcolm
> Betreff: RE: [governance] Agenda for IGF Nairobi - IGC proposals
>
>
>
> The FCC 'NN rules' doc Parminder referenced is actually titled 'open Internet'...I scanned and did find the words 'network neutrality' in some footnotes.
>
> So while 'Network Neutrality' is the popular phraseology, there is a reason the actual regulations are for 'open Internet' which as some may recall is the phraseology which I have been suggesting all along is a more accurate rendering of what is desired, and desirable.
>
> Now my 2 points:
>
> 1) 'open Internet' logically includes both wired and wireless nets, as well as heterogeneous nets including both wired and wireless pieces. The third  category happens to be most of our daily realities in Internet access, services and use.
>
> 2) the FCC regs are therefore logically inconsistent if they claim one set of rules for -wired - and another for - wireless, and are at 95% confidence level imho likely to be challenged in court within a year.
>
> Because of 1) and 2) and the usual industry squabbles the FCC rules are far from the last word on net neutrality or open Internet thematic  in the US; I suspect sooner or later new legislation for ensuring an - open Internet - will be needed. And the artifical boundary of one set of rules for wired and another for wireless, won't stand up to the scrutiny.
>
> In sum, for IGF thematic reasons I understand going with the 'headline news' version of the issue - ie the phrase network neutrality - but for actual progress towards a global - open Internet - I continue to suggest the better phrase is - open Internet.  I'm sure the fact that the FCC agrees with me on that point is a plus or minus for many of you. : ).
>
> But anyway, my suggested amendment to the proposed main theme title is: 'Open Mobile Internet.'
>
> Three words both clear and ambiguous enough to leave room for multiple interpretations, which seems a requirement for an IGF theme...
>
> Lee
> ________________________________________
> From: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org [governance-request at lists.cpsr.org] On Behalf Of Fouad Bajwa [fouadbajwa at gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2011 8:04 PM
> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; parminder
> Cc: Jeremy Malcolm
> Subject: Re: [governance] Agenda for IGF Nairobi - IGC proposals
>
> after giving some more thought to the Mobile Network Neutrality
> topics, why not propose it as:
>
> Wired and Wireless Network Neutrality - W2 at NN
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 12:06 PM, Fouad Bajwa <fouadbajwa at gmail.com> wrote:
>> We should begin with forwarding these suggestion well beforehand. Many
>> of the MAG members from developing regions will not be able to make it
>> to the upcoming MAG and open consultation meetings and will be mostly
>> around through remote participation.
>>
>> My question regarding the topic of 'Network Neutrality' or now '
>> Mobile Network Neutrality' is that how should this be conveyed? NN is
>> easier to raise and pass through and have MNN listed in the sub-topics
>> because its a term almost everyone is aware of within the IGF
>> community but MNN will be a bit of confusion otherwise and might
>> create the same kind of resistance that happens around when the issue
>> around HR or IRP has been raised in the past? We know how things are
>> with new-terms in the process.
>>
>> The 'development agenda for IG' should remain an important focus to be
>> included and I will sustain my position with regards to it and revive
>> the cross-community working group to organize it should we be able to
>> table it through.
>>
>> 'Cross border Issues and implications of IG' is a good topic and yes
>> CoE is discussing it with a major activity happening around April this
>> year on the issue and we can liaise with the CoE representatives to
>> table this issue as a main session topic.
>>
>> Can we detail these topics out also to assist the MAG members from CS
>> to present, deliberate and sustain their ground.
>>
>> An important thing that can be done is that we create a yearly focus
>> of topics that are also detailed out with all these references like
>> the one from Sala's message so that it can be used as a reference
>> point to make both statements, IGC position information and other
>> discussion pointers.
>>
>> -- Best
>>
>> Fouad
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 3:20 PM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> wrote:
>>> Hi Jeremy
>>>
>>> I think we should two separate threads for the next IGF's agenda, which
>>> hopefully will be taken up in the Feb MAG meeting, and for our inputs into
>>> the WG on IGF improvements. Both are very distinct issues and separately
>>> quite important . So excuse me to have this thread on 'agenda for IGF
>>> Nairobi'.
>>>
>>> I am particularly eager to get this discussion going, because I feel that
>>> IGC should be doing much more on substantive issues, and its almost singular
>>> focus on process issues is what has kept it insulated from much of the civil
>>> society outside the IG realm, which compromises its legitimacy.
>>>
>>> In middle of the hot discussions on composition of the WG on IGF
>>> improvements, Sala posted an email on the (globally) historic FCC decision
>>> on network neutrality. While there are some good points there, there has
>>> been a sellout on excluding mobile Internet from regulations disallowing
>>> pay-for-priority. (To read this in the context of my earielr emails pointing
>>> to how mobile Internet in India is already breaching NN boundaries.)
>>>
>>> This FC decision has the potential of splitting up the Internet into the
>>> open fixed line variety and corporate content dominated mobile Internet. Why
>>> should there be two kinds of Internet? Why do freedoms and rights count on
>>> one kind and are not so important on the mobile Internet? What does this
>>> mean for developing countries where mobile is slated to become the by far
>>> the dominant platform for Internet?
>>>
>>> I also consider it very significant that it is perhaps the first time ever
>>> in any substantial policy matter of such huge consequence that the policy
>>> framework was largely written up as a result of negotiations between two
>>> largest corporate players in the area - google and verizon - and then the
>>> government rubber stamped it. If this the new global governance model we are
>>> moving towards? I keep getting this picture in my mind of our health policy
>>> frameworks soon being written by drug companies and health insurance
>>> companies, and maybe the large private hospital chains, if they are big
>>> enough, before plaint governments rubber stamp it. That is exactly what
>>> happened in the present instance vis a vis the new communication
>>> infrastructure of the Internet that came with such egalitarian promises.
>>>
>>> Anyway back to the topic,
>>>
>>> The next IGF just must take up 'Network Neutrality' or in fact ' Mobile
>>> Network Neutrality' as its key plenary theme. Otherwise IGF and the real
>>> world IG would be two very different worlds.
>>>
>>> It should also continue with the plenary topic - 'development agenda for IG'
>>>
>>> And I propose a third topic
>>>
>>> 'Cross border Issues and implications of IG'
>>>
>>> CoE is discussing it, no reason why IGF should not.
>>>
>>> Parminder
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jeremy Malcolm wrote:
>>>
>>> I would like us to move towards preparing a submission about the
>>> programme of the 2011 IGF meeting.  Simultaneously, we can discuss IGF
>>> improvements, which if minor could go into that submission, but
>>> otherwise can be input for our new CSTD working group on the IGF.
>>>
>>> This is an exercise that we have, of course, gone through before.  So it
>>> is useful for us to look at some previous submissions on the programme
>>> of the IGF and on improvements, and see what we can simply rewrite and
>>> reuse.  Here are relevant links:
>>>
>>> PROGRAMME:
>>>
>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/8 (Hyderabad)
>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/5 (Sharm)
>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/26 (Sharm)
>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/32 (Sharm)
>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/34 (Vilnius)
>>>
>>> IMPROVEMENTS:
>>>
>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/6 (funding, deeper discussion, WGs)
>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/7 (format improvements, IGF as town-hall)
>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/9 (MAG improvements)
>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/30 (MAG, funding, intersessional work)
>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/33 (MAG, outputs, intersessional work)
>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/41 (MAG improvements, links from IGF)
>>> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/45 (outputs, difficult issues, virtual IGF)
>>>
>>> I would suggest that people go through these and pick out the highlights
>>> that they would like to reiterate... as well, of course, as contributing
>>> any new points in light of the changed landscape since last November.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> PK
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>
>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>
>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Regards.
> --------------------------
> Fouad Bajwa
> ____________________________________________________________
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From gpaque at gmail.com  Tue Jan 18 10:12:50 2011
From: gpaque at gmail.com (Ginger Paque)
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 10:42:50 -0430
Subject: [governance] Calls for applications for Diplo IG foundation
 courses: registration now open
Message-ID: <4D35ADF2.1040703@diplomacy.edu>

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From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de  Tue Jan 18 14:03:03 2011
From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang=22?=)
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 20:03:03 +0100
Subject: [governance] FYI
References: <1294902402.25480.696.camel@terminus-Aspire-L320>
 <4D302387.5070203@itforchange.net>
 <AANLkTikvNgZ8UrMuL_tL_-Mf5wOoAFmOobUadkt-ZFu_@mail.gmail.com>
 <AANLkTimVU1stP18YEmnY4w0Q55BsOFzFNtrxTQ5Hv0HC@mail.gmail.com>
 <93F4C2F3D19A03439EAC16D47C591DDE03300070D5@suex07-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu>
 <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8A076A6@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
 <93F4C2F3D19A03439EAC16D47C591DDE03300070DF@suex07-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu>
 <AANLkTikt-Ge_Mm=z238JL1VFtG-6pcQv0D5atsY=oSMJ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID:  <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8A076D8@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/3/42/46894657.pdf
 
wolfgang
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From salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com  Tue Jan 18 14:17:31 2011
From: salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com (Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro)
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 07:17:31 +1200
Subject: [governance] FYI
In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8A076D8@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
References: <1294902402.25480.696.camel@terminus-Aspire-L320>
	<4D302387.5070203@itforchange.net>
	<AANLkTikvNgZ8UrMuL_tL_-Mf5wOoAFmOobUadkt-ZFu_@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimVU1stP18YEmnY4w0Q55BsOFzFNtrxTQ5Hv0HC@mail.gmail.com>
	<93F4C2F3D19A03439EAC16D47C591DDE03300070D5@suex07-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu>
	<2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8A076A6@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
	<93F4C2F3D19A03439EAC16D47C591DDE03300070DF@suex07-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu>
	<AANLkTikt-Ge_Mm=z238JL1VFtG-6pcQv0D5atsY=oSMJ@mail.gmail.com>
	<2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8A076D8@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinPq7dEWZS_evgrjGo+zxx=Y+-XyL3jW9tFK5B4@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you Wolfgang, this was a very interesting read. :)

I am writing a Research Paper on Cyber Security in Fiji and this is very
useful. If anyone else has any articles that you think could be useful to
me, please feel free to send it directly to my email address. I have been on
the ITU website and was interested in the model legislation that their
experts developed.

Kind Regards,

Sala
2011/1/19 "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" <
wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de>

> http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/3/42/46894657.pdf
>
> wolfgang
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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>
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From f.cortiana at provincia.milano.it  Wed Jan 19 08:17:26 2011
From: f.cortiana at provincia.milano.it (Fiorello Cortiana)
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 14:17:26 +0100
Subject: R: [governance] Fwd: Re: [IAMCR] Tunis
In-Reply-To: <006901cbb6a1$60d039c0$2270ad40$@uol.com.br>
References: <4D330A81.3020005@nupef.org.br> <006901cbb6a1$60d039c0$2270ad40$@uol.com.br>
Message-ID: <95227A668FFBB141A238AE53582A8E11011E66C9@VEXNODE2.man.provincia.mi.it>

A lot of thoughts, quite good. At that time we put a seed in the ground. 
Specifically I remember the press conference of the Tunis' ONG garanteed 
by Shirin Ebadi and a lot of us member of the parliaments of Europe. 
The international pubblic opinion  must follows the Tunis process 
using the Net to support it with transparency of information
 
Fiorello Cortiana
________________________________

Da: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.cpsr.org] Per conto di Vanda UOL
Inviato: martedì 18 gennaio 2011 0.51
A: governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Graciela Selaimen'
Oggetto: RES: [governance] Fwd: Re: [IAMCR] Tunis



Quite interesting indeed Graciela. 

 

Vanda Scartezini

Polo Consultores Associados

IT Trend

Alameda Santos 1470 - 1407,8

01418-903 São Paulo,SP, Brasil

Tel + 5511 3266.6253

Mob + 55118181.1464

 

De: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.cpsr.org] Em nome de Graciela Selaimen
Enviada em: domingo, 16 de janeiro de 2011 13:11
Para: governance at lists.cpsr.org
Assunto: [governance] Fwd: Re: [IAMCR] Tunis

 

Intersting article.

best,
Graciela Selaimen - a 'Suleiman' in Tunisia.

		
Data: 

Fri, 14 Jan 2011 22:43:03 -0800

De: 

Sasha Costanza Chock <costanza at usc.edu> <mailto:costanza at usc.edu> 

		
: 

	

 

Ethan zuckerman has an excellent post here: http://www.ethanzuckerman.com/blog/2011/01/12/what-if-tunisia-had-a-revolution-but-nobody-watched/
 
-sc
 
 
>Any thoughts on events in Tunis, the site of the World Summit for the
>Information Society?
> 
> 
>      
> 
>_______________________________________________
>International Association for Media and Communication Research -
>http://iamcr.org
>Announcements mailing list
> 
>Join IAMCR |
>http://iamcr.org/about-iamcr/membership/join-iamcr-mainmenu-237
> 
>Follow IAMCR's updates on Twitter | http://twitter.com/IAMCRtweets
>Visit IAMCR's Facebook Page | http://www.facebook.com/iamcr.org
__________________
International Association for Media and Communication Research - http://iamcr.org
Announcements mailing list
 
Join IAMCR | http://iamcr.org/about-iamcr/membership/join-iamcr-mainmenu-237
 
Follow IAMCR's updates on Twitter | http://twitter.com/IAMCRtweets
Visit IAMCR's Facebook Page | http://www.facebook.com/iamcr.org
 
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From bortzmeyer at internatif.org  Wed Jan 19 02:54:55 2011
From: bortzmeyer at internatif.org (Stephane Bortzmeyer)
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 08:54:55 +0100
Subject: [governance] Three things about the proper use of email (Was: FYI
In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8A076D8@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
References: <1294902402.25480.696.camel@terminus-Aspire-L320>
 <4D302387.5070203@itforchange.net>
 <AANLkTikvNgZ8UrMuL_tL_-Mf5wOoAFmOobUadkt-ZFu_@mail.gmail.com>
 <AANLkTimVU1stP18YEmnY4w0Q55BsOFzFNtrxTQ5Hv0HC@mail.gmail.com>
 <93F4C2F3D19A03439EAC16D47C591DDE03300070D5@suex07-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu>
 <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8A076A6@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
 <93F4C2F3D19A03439EAC16D47C591DDE03300070DF@suex07-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu>
 <AANLkTikt-Ge_Mm=z238JL1VFtG-6pcQv0D5atsY=oSMJ@mail.gmail.com>
 <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8A076D8@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
Message-ID: <20110119075455.GB4307@nic.fr>

On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 08:03:03PM +0100,
 Kleinwächter, Wolfgang <wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de> wrote 
 a message of 15 lines which said:

> http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/3/42/46894657.pdf

1) Do not reply to existing threads for an unrelated topic, start a
new thread. A good explanation is in
<http://wiki.exim.org/MailingListEtiquette#Thread_Stealing>

2) Take the time to provide a meaningful subject. Here, "Report to
OECD about cybersecurity" is certainly better than "FYI"

3) Do not post a single URL without at least a short summary of why it
is relevant and why people may want to read it. Some URL provide
enough content (like the one I used above) but not all.
____________________________________________________________
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From ias_pk at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 19 04:36:39 2011
From: ias_pk at yahoo.com (Imran Ahmed Shah)
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 01:36:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [governance] Advance notice of the need to move this list
In-Reply-To: <35687.48906.qm@web33005.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <sympa.1295230889.33920.988@lists.cpsr.org> <35687.48906.qm@web33005.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <574058.78726.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Dear Jeremy,
Please inform me, if you have selected any of the following option.
Thanks
Imran Ahmed Shah

________________________________
From: Imran Ahmed Shah <ias_pk at yahoo.com>
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; jeremy at ciroap.org; 
roland at internetpolicyagency.com
Cc: Imran UISoc <imran at UISoc.org>
Sent: Mon, 17 January, 2011 13:43:47
Subject: Re: Re: [governance] Advance notice of the need to move this list


Dear Jeremy,
 
With reference to following email regarding discussion about the hosting and 
mailing list portability options, and as you mentioned about the immediate need 
for replacement of the servers, would you please inform that how much storage do 
you need on the hosting server? Current mailing list 
governance at lists.cpsr.org is Sympa base mailing application, if you can port it 
onto mailman (Python), we can offer following two options:
 
1.    on behalf of IGFPAK.org can offer to provide shared hosting to add 
domain of "igcaucus.org" and mailing list with Mailman application.  (Pakistan 
IGF will bear the cost for a common initiatives).
 
2.    If you need cPanel + 24x7 support as well, select the Shared Hosting 
Package (according to the size of storage required) on netconfident.net and 
confirmation either about Sympa Compliance mailing list otherwise ready to 
migrate mailing list onto Python Engine (Mailman) and inform me. I will arrange 
the account for IGCaucus.Org, regardless the funding collection process (or time 
schedule) to bear the costs you decide. 

 
If you my help, just inform me.
 
Thanking you and Best Regards
 
Imran Ahmed Shah
________________________________
From: "jeremy at ciroap.org" <jeremy at ciroap.org>
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; roland at internetpolicyagency.com
Sent: Mon, 17 January, 2011 7:26:23
Subject: Re: Re: [governance] Advance notice of the need to move this list

(My email is down again so I'm replying from the Web archive.)  To avoid the 
list being at igf-online.net, we would need to move the Web site and the mailing 
list into the same place.  I can't give much of a commitment from Consumers 
International about continuity (because everything depends on funding for my 
project work at CI), so the other option is for us to raise some funds and hire 
our own virtual server, where everything can be consolidated under our existing 
igcaucus.org domain.  Does anyone prefer that option?  I suspect it would not be 
too hard to raise the necessary funds, even if just with a "Donate" button on 
our Web site.  We are talking about around $10/month.  In the past there was 
talk about making an application for a grant from a donor like the UN Democracy 
Fund, but this raised people's fears about over-institutionalising the IGC, 
so...
____________________________________________________________
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From dogwallah at gmail.com  Wed Jan 19 09:57:41 2011
From: dogwallah at gmail.com (McTim)
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 17:57:41 +0300
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [ISOC] Global Internet Community Leader Joins
 Internet Society as VP for Public Policy
In-Reply-To: <3CC13F86-5771-4819-BEB0-56121D95F386@isoc.org>
References: <3CC13F86-5771-4819-BEB0-56121D95F386@isoc.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTingw51Nz5Xr1q=ndDWFZh=y_rjY2nfAF4Fhi5xn@mail.gmail.com>

How about that! Congratulations Markus!

-- 
Cheers,

McTim
"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A
route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Greg Wood <wood at isoc.org>
Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 5:40 PM
Subject: [ISOC] Global Internet Community Leader Joins Internet
Society as VP for Public Policy
To: isoc-members-announce at elists.isoc.org


GLOBAL INTERNET COMMUNITY LEADER JOINS INTERNET SOCIETY AS VP FOR PUBLIC POLICY

Markus Kummer takes on leadership role for global, regional and
national Internet issues

GENEVA, SWITZERLAND and RESTON, VIRGINIA, USA - 19 January 2011 - An
internationally recognized leader in a broad range of Internet policy
issues will join the Internet Society as head of its public policy
department. As the Internet Society's Vice President of Public Policy,
Markus Kummer will advance key Internet Society policy positions on
issues such as privacy, cybersecurity, and network neutrality. Most
recently the Executive Coordinator of the Secretariat supporting the
United Nations' Internet Governance Forum, Kummer has extensive
experience with Internet policy at the global, regional, and national
levels.

"Markus' broad experience with and deep understanding of the key
policy issues facing the Internet will help ensure the Internet
Society has an even greater impact on issues critical to the
Internet's continued evolution as an open platform for innovation and
economic development," said Lynn St.Amour, the Internet Society's
President and CEO.

Before joining the United Nations in 2004, Kummer held the position of
eEnvoy for the Swiss Foreign Ministry in Berne. Mr. Kummer was a
member of the Swiss delegation during the first phase of the World
Summit on the Information Society (WSIS) where he chaired several
negotiating groups, including the group on Internet governance. He
went on to serve as the Executive Coordinator of the WSIS Working
Group on Internet Governance from 2004 to 2005. Before his involvement
with the WSIS, he served as a career diplomat in several functions in
the Swiss Foreign Ministry and was posted in Lisbon, Vienna, Oslo,
Geneva, and Ankara.

"In joining the Internet Society, I look forward to advancing the
multistakeholder approach to policy that has been so central to the
Internet's development and is even more critical to its future," said
Markus Kummer, who will officially take up his position on 1 February
2011. "With its technical roots, the Internet Society is already
established as a uniquely credible leader on policy issues, and a key
contributor to policy discussions at the national, regional, and
global levels."

The Internet Society is the world's trusted independent source of
leadership on Internet issues. The Internet Society works with its
tens of thousands of Members and nearly 100 Chapters around the world
to promote the continued evolution and growth of the open global
Internet.

About the Internet Society
The Internet Society is a non-profit organisation founded in 1992 to
provide leadership in Internet-related standards, education, and
policy. It is dedicated to ensuring the open development, evolution
and use of the Internet for the benefit of people throughout the
world. See: www.internetsociety.org

Contact
Greg Wood
wood at isoc.org
+1-703-439-2145
_______________________________________________
To manage your ISOC subscriptions or unsubscribe,
please log into the ISOC Member Portal:
https://portal.isoc.org/
Then choose Interests & Subscriptions from the My Account menu.
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From gpaque at gmail.com  Wed Jan 19 10:08:08 2011
From: gpaque at gmail.com (Ginger Paque)
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 10:38:08 -0430
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [ISOC] Global Internet Community Leader Joins
 Internet Society as	VP for Public Policy
Message-ID: <4D36FE58.2020205@diplomacy.edu>



GLOBAL INTERNET COMMUNITY LEADER JOINS INTERNET SOCIETY AS VP FOR PUBLIC POLICY

Markus Kummer takes on leadership role for global, regional and national Internet issues

GENEVA, SWITZERLAND and RESTON, VIRGINIA, USA - 19 January 2011 - An internationally recognized leader in a broad range of Internet policy issues will join the Internet Society as head of its public policy department. As the Internet Society's Vice President of Public Policy, Markus Kummer will advance key Internet Society policy positions on issues such as privacy, cybersecurity, and network neutrality. Most recently the Executive Coordinator of the Secretariat supporting the United Nations' Internet Governance Forum, Kummer has extensive experience with Internet policy at the global, regional, and national levels.

"Markus' broad experience with and deep understanding of the key policy issues facing the Internet will help ensure the Internet Society has an even greater impact on issues critical to the Internet's continued evolution as an open platform for innovation and economic development," said Lynn St.Amour, the Internet Society's President and CEO.

Before joining the United Nations in 2004, Kummer held the position of eEnvoy for the Swiss Foreign Ministry in Berne. Mr. Kummer was a member of the Swiss delegation during the first phase of the World Summit on the Information Society (WSIS) where he chaired several negotiating groups, including the group on Internet governance. He went on to serve as the Executive Coordinator of the WSIS Working Group on Internet Governance from 2004 to 2005. Before his involvement with the WSIS, he served as a career diplomat in several functions in the Swiss Foreign Ministry and was posted in Lisbon, Vienna, Oslo, Geneva, and Ankara.

"In joining the Internet Society, I look forward to advancing the multistakeholder approach to policy that has been so central to the Internet's development and is even more critical to its future," said Markus Kummer, who will officially take up his position on 1 February 2011. "With its technical roots, the Internet Society is already established as a uniquely credible leader on policy issues, and a key contributor to policy discussions at the national, regional, and global levels."

The Internet Society is the world's trusted independent source of leadership on Internet issues. The Internet Society works with its tens of thousands of Members and nearly 100 Chapters around the world to promote the continued evolution and growth of the open global Internet.

About the Internet Society
The Internet Society is a non-profit organisation founded in 1992 to provide leadership in Internet-related standards, education, and policy. It is dedicated to ensuring the open development, evolution and use of the Internet for the benefit of people throughout the world. See: www.internetsociety.org

Contact
Greg Wood
wood at isoc.org
+1-703-439-2145
_______________________________________________
To manage your ISOC subscriptions or unsubscribe,
please log into the ISOC Member Portal:
https://portal.isoc.org/
Then choose Interests&  Subscriptions from the My Account menu.


____________________________________________________________
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From pbekono at gmail.com  Wed Jan 19 10:35:52 2011
From: pbekono at gmail.com (Pascal Bekono)
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 16:35:52 +0100
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [ISOC] Global Internet Community Leader Joins
 Internet Society as VP for Public Policy
In-Reply-To: <3CC13F86-5771-4819-BEB0-56121D95F386@isoc.org>
References: <3CC13F86-5771-4819-BEB0-56121D95F386@isoc.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTik5iK3KW1=xT6Kfahkppfxsb1TQYUFYojbzd4AT@mail.gmail.com>

--------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Greg Wood <wood at isoc.org>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 09:40:02 -0500
Subject: [ISOC] Global Internet Community Leader Joins Internet
Society as VP for Public Policy
To: isoc-members-announce at elists.isoc.org


GLOBAL INTERNET COMMUNITY LEADER JOINS INTERNET SOCIETY AS VP FOR PUBLIC POLICY

Markus Kummer takes on leadership role for global, regional and
national Internet issues

GENEVA, SWITZERLAND and RESTON, VIRGINIA, USA - 19 January 2011 - An
internationally recognized leader in a broad range of Internet policy
issues will join the Internet Society as head of its public policy
department. As the Internet Society's Vice President of Public Policy,
Markus Kummer will advance key Internet Society policy positions on
issues such as privacy, cybersecurity, and network neutrality. Most
recently the Executive Coordinator of the Secretariat supporting the
United Nations' Internet Governance Forum, Kummer has extensive
experience with Internet policy at the global, regional, and national
levels.

"Markus' broad experience with and deep understanding of the key
policy issues facing the Internet will help ensure the Internet
Society has an even greater impact on issues critical to the
Internet's continued evolution as an open platform for innovation and
economic development," said Lynn St.Amour, the Internet Society's
President and CEO.

Before joining the United Nations in 2004, Kummer held the position of
eEnvoy for the Swiss Foreign Ministry in Berne. Mr. Kummer was a
member of the Swiss delegation during the first phase of the World
Summit on the Information Society (WSIS) where he chaired several
negotiating groups, including the group on Internet governance. He
went on to serve as the Executive Coordinator of the WSIS Working
Group on Internet Governance from 2004 to 2005. Before his involvement
with the WSIS, he served as a career diplomat in several functions in
the Swiss Foreign Ministry and was posted in Lisbon, Vienna, Oslo,
Geneva, and Ankara.

"In joining the Internet Society, I look forward to advancing the
multistakeholder approach to policy that has been so central to the
Internet's development and is even more critical to its future," said
Markus Kummer, who will officially take up his position on 1 February
2011. "With its technical roots, the Internet Society is already
established as a uniquely credible leader on policy issues, and a key
contributor to policy discussions at the national, regional, and
global levels."

The Internet Society is the world's trusted independent source of
leadership on Internet issues. The Internet Society works with its
tens of thousands of Members and nearly 100 Chapters around the world
to promote the continued evolution and growth of the open global
Internet.

About the Internet Society
The Internet Society is a non-profit organisation founded in 1992 to
provide leadership in Internet-related standards, education, and
policy. It is dedicated to ensuring the open development, evolution
and use of the Internet for the benefit of people throughout the
world. See: www.internetsociety.org

Contact
Greg Wood
wood at isoc.org
+1-703-439-2145
_______________________________________________
To manage your ISOC subscriptions or unsubscribe,
please log into the ISOC Member Portal:
https://portal.isoc.org/
Then choose Interests & Subscriptions from the My Account menu.
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


From ian.peter at ianpeter.com  Wed Jan 19 23:33:16 2011
From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 15:33:16 +1100
Subject: [governance] Agenda for IGF Nairobi - IGC proposals
In-Reply-To: <4D302387.5070203@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <C95E063C.15766%ian.peter@ianpeter.com>

Sorry to take so long to reply to this -

In addition toi the excellent proposals put forward by Parminder, I wonder
if we should tackle the general A2K area ­ access to knowledge. I personally
would like to see a plenary session (I think IGF plenary topics have become
boring and repetitive) - but at the least a good workshop would be useful.

Others involved in this general area might have suggestions ­ but it is
certainly a subject area where we can get some excellent input from all
stakeholder groups and some stimulating debate.


Ian Peter



From: parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
Reply-To: <governance at lists.cpsr.org>, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 15:50:55 +0530
To: <governance at lists.cpsr.org>, Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org>
Subject: [governance] Agenda for IGF Nairobi - IGC proposals

Hi Jeremy

I think we should two separate threads for the next IGF's agenda, which
hopefully will be taken up in the Feb MAG meeting, and for our inputs into
the WG on IGF improvements. Both are very distinct issues and separately
quite important . So excuse me to have this thread on 'agenda for IGF
Nairobi'.

I am particularly eager to get this discussion going, because I feel that
IGC should be doing much more on substantive issues, and its almost singular
focus on process issues is what has kept it insulated from much of the civil
society outside the IG realm, which compromises its legitimacy.

In middle of the hot discussions on composition of the WG on IGF
improvements, Sala posted an email on the (globally) historic FCC decision
on network neutrality. While there are some good points there, there has
been a sellout on excluding mobile Internet from regulations disallowing
pay-for-priority. (To read this in the context of my earielr emails pointing
to how mobile Internet in India is already breaching NN boundaries.)

This FC decision has the potential of splitting up the Internet into the
open fixed line variety and corporate content dominated mobile Internet. Why
should there be two kinds of Internet? Why do freedoms and rights count on
one kind and are not so important on the mobile Internet? What does this
mean for developing countries where mobile is slated to become the by far
the dominant platform for Internet?

I also consider it very significant that it is perhaps the first time ever
in any substantial policy matter of such huge consequence that the policy
framework was largely written up as a result of negotiations between two
largest corporate players in the area - google and verizon - and then the
government rubber stamped it. If this the new global governance model we are
moving towards? I keep getting this picture in my mind of our health policy
frameworks soon being written by drug companies and health insurance
companies, and maybe the large private hospital chains, if they are big
enough, before plaint governments rubber stamp it. That is exactly what
happened in the present instance vis a vis the new communication
infrastructure of the Internet that came with such egalitarian promises.

Anyway back to the topic,

The next IGF just must take up 'Network Neutrality' or in fact ' Mobile
Network Neutrality' as its key plenary theme. Otherwise IGF and the real
world IG would be two very different worlds.

It should also continue with the plenary topic - 'development agenda for IG'

And I propose a third topic

'Cross border Issues and implications of IG'

CoE is discussing it, no reason why IGF should not.

Parminder 










Jeremy Malcolm wrote:
>  
> I would like us to move towards preparing a submission about the
> programme of the 2011 IGF meeting.  Simultaneously, we can discuss IGF
> improvements, which if minor could go into that submission, but
> otherwise can be input for our new CSTD working group on the IGF.
> 
> This is an exercise that we have, of course, gone through before.  So it
> is useful for us to look at some previous submissions on the programme
> of the IGF and on improvements, and see what we can simply rewrite and
> reuse.  Here are relevant links:
> 
> PROGRAMME:
> 
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/8 (Hyderabad)
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/5 (Sharm)
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/26 (Sharm)
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/32 (Sharm)
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/34 (Vilnius)
> 
> IMPROVEMENTS:
> 
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/6 (funding, deeper discussion, WGs)
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/7 (format improvements, IGF as town-hall)
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/9 (MAG improvements)
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/30 (MAG, funding, intersessional work)
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/33 (MAG, outputs, intersessional work)
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/41 (MAG improvements, links from IGF)
> http://www.igcaucus.org/node/45 (outputs, difficult issues, virtual IGF)
> 
> I would suggest that people go through these and pick out the highlights
> that they would like to reiterate... as well, of course, as contributing
> any new points in light of the changed landscape since last November.
> 
>   

-- 
PK


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From nkurunziza1999 at yahoo.fr  Thu Jan 20 01:51:44 2011
From: nkurunziza1999 at yahoo.fr (Jean Paul NKURUNZIZA)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 06:51:44 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [ISOC] Global Internet Community Leader
 Joins Internet Society as VP for Public Policy
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTingw51Nz5Xr1q=ndDWFZh=y_rjY2nfAF4Fhi5xn@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3CC13F86-5771-4819-BEB0-56121D95F386@isoc.org> <AANLkTingw51Nz5Xr1q=ndDWFZh=y_rjY2nfAF4Fhi5xn@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <536034.12081.qm@web25901.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Congratulations to Markus.
Full success in your new position.

Regards

 NKURUNZIZA Jean Paul
Burundi Youth Training Centre
www.bytc.bi
Tel : +257 79 981459




________________________________
De : McTim <dogwallah at gmail.com>
À : governance at lists.cpsr.org
Envoyé le : Mer 19 janvier 2011, 16h 57min 41s
Objet : [governance] Fwd: [ISOC] Global Internet Community Leader Joins Internet 
Society as VP for Public Policy

How about that! Congratulations Markus!

-- 
Cheers,

McTim
"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A
route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Greg Wood <wood at isoc.org>
Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 5:40 PM
Subject: [ISOC] Global Internet Community Leader Joins Internet
Society as VP for Public Policy
To: isoc-members-announce at elists.isoc.org


GLOBAL INTERNET COMMUNITY LEADER JOINS INTERNET SOCIETY AS VP FOR PUBLIC POLICY

Markus Kummer takes on leadership role for global, regional and
national Internet issues

GENEVA, SWITZERLAND and RESTON, VIRGINIA, USA - 19 January 2011 - An
internationally recognized leader in a broad range of Internet policy
issues will join the Internet Society as head of its public policy
department. As the Internet Society's Vice President of Public Policy,
Markus Kummer will advance key Internet Society policy positions on
issues such as privacy, cybersecurity, and network neutrality. Most
recently the Executive Coordinator of the Secretariat supporting the
United Nations' Internet Governance Forum, Kummer has extensive
experience with Internet policy at the global, regional, and national
levels.

"Markus' broad experience with and deep understanding of the key
policy issues facing the Internet will help ensure the Internet
Society has an even greater impact on issues critical to the
Internet's continued evolution as an open platform for innovation and
economic development," said Lynn St.Amour, the Internet Society's
President and CEO.

Before joining the United Nations in 2004, Kummer held the position of
eEnvoy for the Swiss Foreign Ministry in Berne. Mr. Kummer was a
member of the Swiss delegation during the first phase of the World
Summit on the Information Society (WSIS) where he chaired several
negotiating groups, including the group on Internet governance. He
went on to serve as the Executive Coordinator of the WSIS Working
Group on Internet Governance from 2004 to 2005. Before his involvement
with the WSIS, he served as a career diplomat in several functions in
the Swiss Foreign Ministry and was posted in Lisbon, Vienna, Oslo,
Geneva, and Ankara.

"In joining the Internet Society, I look forward to advancing the
multistakeholder approach to policy that has been so central to the
Internet's development and is even more critical to its future," said
Markus Kummer, who will officially take up his position on 1 February
2011. "With its technical roots, the Internet Society is already
established as a uniquely credible leader on policy issues, and a key
contributor to policy discussions at the national, regional, and
global levels."

The Internet Society is the world's trusted independent source of
leadership on Internet issues. The Internet Society works with its
tens of thousands of Members and nearly 100 Chapters around the world
to promote the continued evolution and growth of the open global
Internet.

About the Internet Society
The Internet Society is a non-profit organisation founded in 1992 to
provide leadership in Internet-related standards, education, and
policy. It is dedicated to ensuring the open development, evolution
and use of the Internet for the benefit of people throughout the
world. See: www.internetsociety.org

Contact
Greg Wood
wood at isoc.org
+1-703-439-2145
_______________________________________________
To manage your ISOC subscriptions or unsubscribe,
please log into the ISOC Member Portal:
https://portal.isoc.org/
Then choose Interests & Subscriptions from the My Account menu.
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
    governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
    http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
    http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


      
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From khaled.koubaa at gmail.com  Thu Jan 20 07:48:14 2011
From: khaled.koubaa at gmail.com (Khaled KOUBAA)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 13:48:14 +0100
Subject: [governance] From Free Tunisia
In-Reply-To: <95227A668FFBB141A238AE53582A8E11011E66C9@VEXNODE2.man.provincia.mi.it>
References: <4D330A81.3020005@nupef.org.br> <006901cbb6a1$60d039c0$2270ad40$@uol.com.br> <95227A668FFBB141A238AE53582A8E11011E66C9@VEXNODE2.man.provincia.mi.it>
Message-ID: <4D382F0E.5060705@gmail.com>

All,
For those who don't know Tunisia : Tunisia is a Small country, great 
nation. First Arab country that abolished slavery in 1848. First Arab 
country to establish a constitution in 1861. First Arab country to 
abolish polygamy in 1956. First Arab country to legalize abortion in 
1973. Tunisia is the first Arab country to kick out its dictator and 
this without the help of any foreign nation!
Today Tunisia has reached a critical and important point in its history 
after succeeding in its revolution. President Ben Ali has left the 
country, and government has collapsed leaving the country in an 
unpredictable situation.
A new “Coalition Government” has been announced bringing old dissidents 
and Human Rights activists in team with a main focus of preparing a 
democratic transition.
Friday January 14th 2011, ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeLT2PEmnDI ) 
I have been inside the huge protestants in front of the ministry of 
Interior and I witnessed brave people asking clearly their dictator to 
leave.
Since then Tunisian retrieved their freedom lost many years and began 
interesting politics.
Young people went on the street asking for more n and more social change 
without being politically coached.
I have witnessed, and have been part, of the strength of the "real" 
Tunisian Internet community to use Internet and Web 2.0 ( Blogs, Video, 
Facebook, Twitter, … ) to support the revolution and everyday’s riots 
showing to the world what’s happening due to a lack of official local 
media coverage.
My life has been different during these days : my house is in a hot 
spot; near El Aouina Army Casern and just between the Airport and the US 
Embassy. So I took my wife to her father house, and I stayed alone 
during 5 days. Everything was different each day; night riots with fire 
shooting between protestants and police during the first 2 days , near 
helicopter surveillance between army and snipers belonging to Ben Ali 
Presidential militia during the last 3days.
I have never felt the importance of the security before that. It was the 
same feeling that had the Tunisian people which led them to go out and 
organize “Population committees” in each city to protect each city from 
Ben Ali militia.
Tunisian Internet community is free today and will show to the world 
what we are capable to accomplish.

Vive Internet and thank you Vint and Internet pioneers to gave us this 
wonderful tool that helped our revolution.

 From the free Tunisia

Khaled Koubaa
____________________________________________________________
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     governance at lists.cpsr.org
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     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


From gate.one205 at yahoo.fr  Thu Jan 20 07:58:00 2011
From: gate.one205 at yahoo.fr (Jean-Yves GATETE)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 12:58:00 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [ISOC] Global Internet Community Leader
 Joins Internet Society as VP for Public Policy
In-Reply-To: <536034.12081.qm@web25901.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <788008.26646.qm@web27802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>


hello dear all,
 
I am pleased to find these news ,
Glad to know that we still have this talented leader in the Internet sphere .
Congratulations Mr. Markus,
 
Greetings,
 
Gatete J-Y

--- En date de : Jeu 20.1.11, Jean Paul NKURUNZIZA <nkurunziza1999 at yahoo.fr> a écrit :


De: Jean Paul NKURUNZIZA <nkurunziza1999 at yahoo.fr>
Objet: Re : [governance] Fwd: [ISOC] Global Internet Community Leader Joins Internet Society as VP for Public Policy
À: governance at lists.cpsr.org, "McTim" <dogwallah at gmail.com>
Date: Jeudi 20 janvier 2011, 7h51





Congratulations to Markus.
Full success in your new position.

Regards

 NKURUNZIZA Jean Paul
Burundi Youth Training Centre
www.bytc.bi
Tel : +257 79 981459






De : McTim <dogwallah at gmail.com>
À : governance at lists.cpsr.org
Envoyé le : Mer 19 janvier 2011, 16h 57min 41s
Objet : [governance] Fwd: [ISOC] Global Internet Community Leader Joins Internet Society as VP for Public Policy

How about that! Congratulations Markus!

-- 
Cheers,

McTim
"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A
route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Greg Wood <wood at isoc.org>
Date: Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 5:40 PM
Subject: [ISOC] Global Internet Community Leader Joins Internet
Society as VP for Public Policy
To: isoc-members-announce at elists.isoc.org


GLOBAL INTERNET COMMUNITY LEADER JOINS INTERNET SOCIETY AS VP FOR PUBLIC POLICY

Markus Kummer takes on leadership role for global, regional and
national Internet issues

GENEVA, SWITZERLAND and RESTON, VIRGINIA, USA - 19 January 2011 - An
internationally recognized leader in a broad range of Internet policy
issues will join the Internet Society as head of its public policy
department. As the Internet Society's Vice President of Public Policy,
Markus Kummer will advance key Internet Society policy positions on
issues such as privacy, cybersecurity, and network neutrality. Most
recently the Executive Coordinator of the Secretariat supporting the
United Nations' Internet Governance Forum, Kummer has extensive
experience with Internet policy at the global, regional, and national
levels.

"Markus' broad experience with and deep understanding of the key
policy issues facing the Internet will help ensure the Internet
Society has an even greater impact on issues critical to the
Internet's continued evolution as an open platform for innovation and
economic development," said Lynn St.Amour, the Internet Society's
President and CEO.

Before joining the United Nations in 2004, Kummer held the position of
eEnvoy for the Swiss Foreign Ministry in Berne. Mr. Kummer was a
member of the Swiss delegation during the first phase of the World
Summit on the Information Society (WSIS) where he chaired several
negotiating groups, including the group on Internet governance. He
went on to serve as the Executive Coordinator of the WSIS Working
Group on Internet Governance from 2004 to 2005. Before his involvement
with the WSIS, he served as a career diplomat in several functions in
the Swiss Foreign Ministry and was posted in Lisbon, Vienna, Oslo,
Geneva, and Ankara.

"In joining the Internet Society, I look forward to advancing the
multistakeholder approach to policy that has been so central to the
Internet's development and is even more critical to its future," said
Markus Kummer, who will officially take up his position on 1 February
2011. "With its technical roots, the Internet Society is already
established as a uniquely credible leader on policy issues, and a key
contributor to policy discussions at the national, regional, and
global levels."

The Internet Society is the world's trusted independent source of
leadership on Internet issues. The Internet Society works with its
tens of thousands of Members and nearly 100 Chapters around the world
to promote the continued evolution and growth of the open global
Internet.

About the Internet Society
The Internet Society is a non-profit organisation founded in 1992 to
provide leadership in Internet-related standards, education, and
policy. It is dedicated to ensuring the open development, evolution
and use of the Internet for the benefit of people throughout the
world. See: www.internetsociety.org

Contact
Greg Wood
wood at isoc.org
+1-703-439-2145
_______________________________________________
To manage your ISOC subscriptions or unsubscribe,
please log into the ISOC Member Portal:
https://portal.isoc.org/
Then choose Interests & Subscriptions from the My Account menu.
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
    governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
    http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
    http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t



-----La pièce jointe associée suit-----


____________________________________________________________
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From gpaque at gmail.com  Thu Jan 20 08:00:16 2011
From: gpaque at gmail.com (Ginger Paque)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 08:30:16 -0430
Subject: [governance] From Free Tunisia
In-Reply-To: <4D382F0E.5060705@gmail.com>
References: <4D330A81.3020005@nupef.org.br> <006901cbb6a1$60d039c0$2270ad40$@uol.com.br> <95227A668FFBB141A238AE53582A8E11011E66C9@VEXNODE2.man.provincia.mi.it> <4D382F0E.5060705@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D3831E0.8010007@paque.net>

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From sam_kams at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 20 08:05:38 2011
From: sam_kams at yahoo.com (samuel kamara)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 05:05:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [governance] hi From Sierra Leone
In-Reply-To: <4D382F0E.5060705@gmail.com>
References: <4D330A81.3020005@nupef.org.br> <006901cbb6a1$60d039c0$2270ad40$@uol.com.br> <95227A668FFBB141A238AE53582A8E11011E66C9@VEXNODE2.man.provincia.mi.it> <4D382F0E.5060705@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <938714.40950.qm@web114720.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi ALL,
  I am very happy to be among this group,i am from Sierra Leone West Africa,we 
currently don't have e-governance setup but we will be getting it soon.I am 
please to be having all your experience so i would implement that in my country.
 Thanks,
Samuel Benjamin Kamara
Sierra Leone




________________________________
From: Khaled KOUBAA <khaled.koubaa at gmail.com>
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
Sent: Thu, January 20, 2011 12:48:14 PM
Subject: [governance] From Free Tunisia

All,
For those who don't know Tunisia : Tunisia is a Small country, great nation. 
First Arab country that abolished slavery in 1848. First Arab country to 
establish a constitution in 1861. First Arab country to abolish polygamy in 
1956. First Arab country to legalize abortion in 1973. Tunisia is the first Arab 
country to kick out its dictator and this without the help of any foreign 
nation!
Today Tunisia has reached a critical and important point in its history after 
succeeding in its revolution. President Ben Ali has left the country, and 
government has collapsed leaving the country in an unpredictable situation.
A new “Coalition Government” has been announced bringing old dissidents and 
Human Rights activists in team with a main focus of preparing a democratic 
transition.
Friday January 14th 2011, ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeLT2PEmnDI ) I have 
been inside the huge protestants in front of the ministry of Interior and I 
witnessed brave people asking clearly their dictator to leave.
Since then Tunisian retrieved their freedom lost many years and began 
interesting politics.
Young people went on the street asking for more n and more social change without 
being politically coached.
I have witnessed, and have been part, of the strength of the "real" Tunisian 
Internet community to use Internet and Web 2.0 ( Blogs, Video, Facebook, 
Twitter, … ) to support the revolution and everyday’s riots showing to the world 
what’s happening due to a lack of official local media coverage.
My life has been different during these days : my house is in a hot spot; near 
El Aouina Army Casern and just between the Airport and the US Embassy. So I took 
my wife to her father house, and I stayed alone during 5 days. Everything was 
different each day; night riots with fire shooting between protestants and 
police during the first 2 days , near helicopter surveillance between army and 
snipers belonging to Ben Ali Presidential militia during the last 3days.
I have never felt the importance of the security before that. It was the same 
feeling that had the Tunisian people which led them to go out and organize 
“Population committees” in each city to protect each city from Ben Ali militia.
Tunisian Internet community is free today and will show to the world what we are 
capable to accomplish.

Vive Internet and thank you Vint and Internet pioneers to gave us this wonderful 
tool that helped our revolution.

From the free Tunisia

Khaled Koubaa
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
    governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

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From rafik.dammak at gmail.com  Thu Jan 20 08:21:43 2011
From: rafik.dammak at gmail.com (Rafik Dammak)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 22:21:43 +0900
Subject: [governance] From Free Tunisia
In-Reply-To: <4D3831E0.8010007@paque.net>
References: <4D330A81.3020005@nupef.org.br> <006901cbb6a1$60d039c0$2270ad40$@uol.com.br>
 <95227A668FFBB141A238AE53582A8E11011E66C9@VEXNODE2.man.provincia.mi.it>
 <4D382F0E.5060705@gmail.com> <4D3831E0.8010007@paque.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTim7AK1_WXF_97xJjyQ-Xj+o3-eaZNxTEkvKa-Up@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ginger,

well another free Tunisian speaking :)
about morozov, I think that many of his points are valid. Like Khaled , I
witnessed the movement through Internet (e.g. facebook and twitter) and
participated as much as I can mostly in twitter (powerful for interaction),
it was and still important for bypassing the media blackout (especially of
local media) and let Tunisians and the rest of the world to be aware about
the situation in Sidi bouzid and other towns later. The international media
didn't start cover really at the beginning except Aljazeera and France24.
 What made this revolution successful is the spread of protests to other
regions and people keeping protesting in streets for almost 4 weeks. when
Tunisia revolution succeeded, another uprising in Belarus failed in the same
time.  Internet is powerful but revolutions are still done offline.
people used social media  more for communication, information dissemination
etc and rarely for organizing protests, the existence of
grassroots structure helped in organizing and maintaining the protests. that
mix between grassroots structures having experienced activists and internet
worked well.

Internet will be also critical for the next steps regarding the construction
of democracy, strengthening freedom of expression and other civil liberties
and empowering citizens participation.

Finally, I am optimistic that troubles will start soon (in fact they are
already decreasing) .

Regards

Rafik


2011/1/20 Ginger Paque <gpaque at gmail.com>

>  Thanks for this post! It is very interesting, particularly in
> juxtaposition to Evgeny Morozov's posts. See
>
> http://www.wired.com/magazine/2010/12/st_essay_totalitarians/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+wired%2Findex+%28Wired%3A+Index+3+%28Top+Stories+2%29%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher
>
> First paragraph:
> The Internet advances the cause of freedom more effectively than ballistic
> missiles and Hellfire-equipped<http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Predator-surveillance-drone-equipped-Hellfire-missiles-US-missiles-have-killed/photo//101122/photos_wl_pc_afp/c90fce2dbd826f3ea6145570029d0a02//s:/afp/20101122/wl_asia_afp/pakistanunrestusmissile>drones; at least that’s the conventional wisdom among US diplomats and
> policymakers. “Information freedom supports the peace and security that
> provide a foundation for global progress” is how Secretary of State Hillary
> Clinton put it in a speech last January, her first on democracy and the
> Internet. George W. Bush’s “freedom agenda” is out; the Twitter agenda is
> in.* Unfortunately, this kind of technological romanticism relies on false
> historical analogies and sloppy thinking. Modern communications technologies
> are already being deployed as new forms of repression.*
>
> Best, Ginger
>
>
> On 1/20/2011 8:18 AM, Khaled KOUBAA wrote:
>
> All,
> For those who don't know Tunisia : Tunisia is a Small country, great
> nation. First Arab country that abolished slavery in 1848. First Arab
> country to establish a constitution in 1861. First Arab country to abolish
> polygamy in 1956. First Arab country to legalize abortion in 1973. Tunisia
> is the first Arab country to kick out its dictator and this without the help
> of any foreign nation!
> Today Tunisia has reached a critical and important point in its history
> after succeeding in its revolution. President Ben Ali has left the country,
> and government has collapsed leaving the country in an unpredictable
> situation.
> A new “Coalition Government” has been announced bringing old dissidents and
> Human Rights activists in team with a main focus of preparing a democratic
> transition.
> Friday January 14th 2011, ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeLT2PEmnDI ) I
> have been inside the huge protestants in front of the ministry of Interior
> and I witnessed brave people asking clearly their dictator to leave.
> Since then Tunisian retrieved their freedom lost many years and began
> interesting politics.
> Young people went on the street asking for more n and more social change
> without being politically coached.
> I have witnessed, and have been part, of the strength of the "real"
> Tunisian Internet community to use Internet and Web 2.0 ( Blogs, Video,
> Facebook, Twitter, … ) to support the revolution and everyday’s riots
> showing to the world what’s happening due to a lack of official local media
> coverage.
> My life has been different during these days : my house is in a hot spot;
> near El Aouina Army Casern and just between the Airport and the US Embassy.
> So I took my wife to her father house, and I stayed alone during 5 days.
> Everything was different each day; night riots with fire shooting between
> protestants and police during the first 2 days , near helicopter
> surveillance between army and snipers belonging to Ben Ali Presidential
> militia during the last 3days.
> I have never felt the importance of the security before that. It was the
> same feeling that had the Tunisian people which led them to go out and
> organize “Population committees” in each city to protect each city from Ben
> Ali militia.
> Tunisian Internet community is free today and will show to the world what
> we are capable to accomplish.
>
> Vive Internet and thank you Vint and Internet pioneers to gave us this
> wonderful tool that helped our revolution.
>
> From the free Tunisia
>
> Khaled Koubaa
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>
> --
>
> *
> **Ginger (Virginia) Paque
> *IGCBP Online Coordinator
> DiploFoundation
> www.diplomacy.edu/ig
>
> *The latest from Diplo...*
> http://igbook.diplomacy.edu is the online companion to *An Introduction to
> Internet Governance, *Diplo's publication on IG. Download the book, read
> the blogs and post your comments.
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>
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From jlfullsack at orange.fr  Thu Jan 20 08:41:28 2011
From: jlfullsack at orange.fr (Jean-Louis FULLSACK)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 14:41:28 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [governance] From Free Tunisia
In-Reply-To: <4D382F0E.5060705@gmail.com>
References: <4D330A81.3020005@nupef.org.br>
 <006901cbb6a1$60d039c0$2270ad40$@uol.com.br>
 <95227A668FFBB141A238AE53582A8E11011E66C9@VEXNODE2.man.provincia.mi.it>
 <4D382F0E.5060705@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <21056658.1607.1295530889101.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f29>

Merci Khaled

pour ton témoignage et tous les encouragements et mes voeux à la "jeune Tunisie lbre".

J'ai particulièrement apprécié le spot sur le Sommet du SMSI de Tunis (novembre 2005) qui doit rappeler quelques souvenirs à la société civile engagée au SMSI, celle qui a accepté "d'y être" et celle qui a refusé (comme mon assoc CSDPTT).

Nous sommes tous de coeur avec vous les artisans de la liberté.

Jean-Louis Fullsack
CSDPTT 




> Message du 20/01/11 13:48
> De : "Khaled KOUBAA" 
> A : governance at lists.cpsr.org
> Copie à : 
> Objet : [governance] From Free Tunisia
> 
> All,
> For those who don't know Tunisia : Tunisia is a Small country, great 
> nation. First Arab country that abolished slavery in 1848. First Arab 
> country to establish a constitution in 1861. First Arab country to 
> abolish polygamy in 1956. First Arab country to legalize abortion in 
> 1973. Tunisia is the first Arab country to kick out its dictator and 
> this without the help of any foreign nation!
> Today Tunisia has reached a critical and important point in its history 
> after succeeding in its revolution. President Ben Ali has left the 
> country, and government has collapsed leaving the country in an 
> unpredictable situation.
> A new “Coalition Government” has been announced bringing old dissidents 
> and Human Rights activists in team with a main focus of preparing a 
> democratic transition.
> Friday January 14th 2011, ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeLT2PEmnDI ) 
> I have been inside the huge protestants in front of the ministry of 
> Interior and I witnessed brave people asking clearly their dictator to 
> leave.
> Since then Tunisian retrieved their freedom lost many years and began 
> interesting politics.
> Young people went on the street asking for more n and more social change 
> without being politically coached.
> I have witnessed, and have been part, of the strength of the "real" 
> Tunisian Internet community to use Internet and Web 2.0 ( Blogs, Video, 
> Facebook, Twitter, … ) to support the revolution and everyday’s riots 
> showing to the world what’s happening due to a lack of official local 
> media coverage.
> My life has been different during these days : my house is in a hot 
> spot; near El Aouina Army Casern and just between the Airport and the US 
> Embassy. So I took my wife to her father house, and I stayed alone 
> during 5 days. Everything was different each day; night riots with fire 
> shooting between protestants and police during the first 2 days , near 
> helicopter surveillance between army and snipers belonging to Ben Ali 
> Presidential militia during the last 3days.
> I have never felt the importance of the security before that. It was the 
> same feeling that had the Tunisian people which led them to go out and 
> organize “Population committees” in each city to protect each city from 
> Ben Ali militia.
> Tunisian Internet community is free today and will show to the world 
> what we are capable to accomplish.
> 
> Vive Internet and thank you Vint and Internet pioneers to gave us this 
> wonderful tool that helped our revolution.
> 
> From the free Tunisia
> 
> Khaled Koubaa
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
> 
> For all other list information and functions, see:
> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> http://www.igcaucus.org/
> 
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> 
> 
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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


From charityg at diplomacy.edu  Thu Jan 20 13:18:49 2011
From: charityg at diplomacy.edu (Charity Gamboa)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 12:18:49 -0600
Subject: [governance] From Free Tunisia
In-Reply-To: <4D382F0E.5060705@gmail.com>
References: <4D330A81.3020005@nupef.org.br>
	<006901cbb6a1$60d039c0$2270ad40$@uol.com.br>
	<95227A668FFBB141A238AE53582A8E11011E66C9@VEXNODE2.man.provincia.mi.it>
	<4D382F0E.5060705@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin+DMuAB29L=q=Zp+bu+7ObYzEir-RMhL4DmLsW@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Khaled,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. When I was a kid, I have
experienced the terror brought about by a dictator toppled by the will and
power of its people. I have been in 3 revolutions in my lifetime in the
Philippines and I would always tell my students here in the US how important
freedom is until you do not have it anymore. During those times, we did not
have the Internet to help us with our fight against social injustice. I
wonder sometimes what it would have been like if the Internet was around and
we were able to speak freely without being condemned. People in other
provinces were not even aware of what was going on in Manila because TV
shows were censored. We had no medium to speak but Filipinos were able to go
out in the streets and prove that freedom cannot be suppressed even by
violent means. That was 25 years ago. But more than 300 years of Spanish
colonialization and Spanish oppression, the Philippines learned, too, that "
*the pen is mightier than the sword*" - or perhaps, if another dictator
comes along, we can say that the "Internet is mightier than an uzi." On the
other hand, people in their ivory towers also get "smarter" each day and I
am very much aware that they will also use the Internet to suppress the very
freedom we fought for.

Regards,
Charity


On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 6:48 AM, Khaled KOUBAA <khaled.koubaa at gmail.com>wrote:

> All,
> For those who don't know Tunisia : Tunisia is a Small country, great
> nation. First Arab country that abolished slavery in 1848. First Arab
> country to establish a constitution in 1861. First Arab country to abolish
> polygamy in 1956. First Arab country to legalize abortion in 1973. Tunisia
> is the first Arab country to kick out its dictator and this without the help
> of any foreign nation!
> Today Tunisia has reached a critical and important point in its history
> after succeeding in its revolution. President Ben Ali has left the country,
> and government has collapsed leaving the country in an unpredictable
> situation.
> A new “Coalition Government” has been announced bringing old dissidents and
> Human Rights activists in team with a main focus of preparing a democratic
> transition.
> Friday January 14th 2011, ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeLT2PEmnDI ) I
> have been inside the huge protestants in front of the ministry of Interior
> and I witnessed brave people asking clearly their dictator to leave.
> Since then Tunisian retrieved their freedom lost many years and began
> interesting politics.
> Young people went on the street asking for more n and more social change
> without being politically coached.
> I have witnessed, and have been part, of the strength of the "real"
> Tunisian Internet community to use Internet and Web 2.0 ( Blogs, Video,
> Facebook, Twitter, … ) to support the revolution and everyday’s riots
> showing to the world what’s happening due to a lack of official local media
> coverage.
> My life has been different during these days : my house is in a hot spot;
> near El Aouina Army Casern and just between the Airport and the US Embassy.
> So I took my wife to her father house, and I stayed alone during 5 days.
> Everything was different each day; night riots with fire shooting between
> protestants and police during the first 2 days , near helicopter
> surveillance between army and snipers belonging to Ben Ali Presidential
> militia during the last 3days.
> I have never felt the importance of the security before that. It was the
> same feeling that had the Tunisian people which led them to go out and
> organize “Population committees” in each city to protect each city from Ben
> Ali militia.
> Tunisian Internet community is free today and will show to the world what
> we are capable to accomplish.
>
> Vive Internet and thank you Vint and Internet pioneers to gave us this
> wonderful tool that helped our revolution.
>
> From the free Tunisia
>
> Khaled Koubaa
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>    governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>    http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>    http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
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For all other list information and functions, see:
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     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


From goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au  Thu Jan 20 17:56:53 2011
From: goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au (David Goldstein)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 14:56:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [governance] From Free Tunisia
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTin+DMuAB29L=q=Zp+bu+7ObYzEir-RMhL4DmLsW@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4D330A81.3020005@nupef.org.br> <006901cbb6a1$60d039c0$2270ad40$@uol.com.br> <95227A668FFBB141A238AE53582A8E11011E66C9@VEXNODE2.man.provincia.mi.it> <4D382F0E.5060705@gmail.com> <AANLkTin+DMuAB29L=q=Zp+bu+7ObYzEir-RMhL4DmLsW@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <517727.71138.qm@web120506.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Tunisia is not free, they will just be ruled by different despots supported by 
the west as Robert Fisk outlined in the Independent a week or so ago.

Incremental changes maybe, significant change - you're dreaming...

David





________________________________
From: Charity Gamboa <charityg at diplomacy.edu>
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Khaled KOUBAA <khaled.koubaa at gmail.com>
Sent: Fri, 21 January, 2011 5:18:49 AM
Subject: Re: [governance] From Free Tunisia


Hi Khaled,
 
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. When I was a kid, I have 
experienced the terror brought about by a dictator toppled by the will and power 
of its people. I have been in 3 revolutions in my lifetime in the Philippines 
and I would always tell my students here in the US how important freedom is 
until you do not have it anymore. During those times, we did not have the 
Internet to help us with our fight against social injustice. I wonder sometimes 
what it would have been like if the Internet was around and we were able to 
speak freely without being condemned. People in other provinces were not even 
aware of what was going on in Manila because TV shows were censored. We had no 
medium to speak but Filipinos were able to go out in the streets and prove that 
freedom cannot be suppressed even by violent means. That was 25 years ago. But 
more than 300 years of Spanish colonialization and Spanish oppression, the 
Philippines learned, too, that "the pen is mightier than the sword" - or 
perhaps, if another dictator comes along, we can say that the "Internet is 
mightier than an uzi." On the other hand, people in their ivory towers also get 
"smarter" each day and I am very much aware that they will also use the Internet 
to suppress the very freedom we fought for. 

 
Regards,
Charity
 
 
On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 6:48 AM, Khaled KOUBAA <khaled.koubaa at gmail.com> wrote:

All,
>For those who don't know Tunisia : Tunisia is a Small country, great nation. 
>First Arab country that abolished slavery in 1848. First Arab country to 
>establish a constitution in 1861. First Arab country to abolish polygamy in 
>1956. First Arab country to legalize abortion in 1973. Tunisia is the first Arab 
>country to kick out its dictator and this without the help of any foreign 
>nation!
>Today Tunisia has reached a critical and important point in its history after 
>succeeding in its revolution. President Ben Ali has left the country, and 
>government has collapsed leaving the country in an unpredictable situation.
>A new “Coalition Government” has been announced bringing old dissidents and 
>Human Rights activists in team with a main focus of preparing a democratic 
>transition.
>Friday January 14th 2011, ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeLT2PEmnDI ) I have 
>been inside the huge protestants in front of the ministry of Interior and I 
>witnessed brave people asking clearly their dictator to leave.
>Since then Tunisian retrieved their freedom lost many years and began 
>interesting politics.
>Young people went on the street asking for more n and more social change without 
>being politically coached.
>I have witnessed, and have been part, of the strength of the "real" Tunisian 
>Internet community to use Internet and Web 2.0 ( Blogs, Video, Facebook, 
>Twitter, … ) to support the revolution and everyday’s riots showing to the world 
>what’s happening due to a lack of official local media coverage.
>My life has been different during these days : my house is in a hot spot; near 
>El Aouina Army Casern and just between the Airport and the US Embassy. So I took 
>my wife to her father house, and I stayed alone during 5 days. Everything was 
>different each day; night riots with fire shooting between protestants and 
>police during the first 2 days , near helicopter surveillance between army and 
>snipers belonging to Ben Ali Presidential militia during the last 3days.
>I have never felt the importance of the security before that. It was the same 
>feeling that had the Tunisian people which led them to go out and organize 
>“Population committees” in each city to protect each city from Ben Ali militia.
>Tunisian Internet community is free today and will show to the world what we are 
>capable to accomplish.
>
>Vive Internet and thank you Vint and Internet pioneers to gave us this wonderful 
>tool that helped our revolution.
>
>From the free Tunisia
>
>Khaled Koubaa
>____________________________________________________________
>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>   governance at lists.cpsr.org
>To be removed from the list, visit:
>   http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
>For all other list information and functions, see:
>   http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>   http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
>Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


      
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____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
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     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


From rafik.dammak at gmail.com  Thu Jan 20 19:15:14 2011
From: rafik.dammak at gmail.com (rafik.dammak at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 00:15:14 +0000
Subject: [governance] From Free Tunisia
In-Reply-To: <517727.71138.qm@web120506.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <4D330A81.3020005@nupef.org.br> <006901cbb6a1$60d039c0$2270ad40$@uol.com.br> <95227A668FFBB141A238AE53582A8E11011E66C9@VEXNODE2.man.provincia.mi.it> <4D382F0E.5060705@gmail.com> <AANLkTin+DMuAB29L=q=Zp+bu+7ObYzEir-RMhL4DmLsW@mail.gmail.com><517727.71138.qm@web120506.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2137572512-1295568886-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-473834529-@b26.c2.bise3.blackberry>

Hi David,

Robert Fisk didn't react about Tunisia uprising for 4 weeks and only wrote articles at the end, he failed miserably to understand what was happening. I advise you to read the articles of Brian Whitaker who followed closely the events and even predicted the fall of regime.
Btw it is up to tunisians now,

Rafik
BlackBerry from DOCOMO

-----Original Message-----
From: David Goldstein <goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au>
Sender: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 14:56:53 
To: <governance at lists.cpsr.org>
Reply-To: governance at lists.cpsr.org,David Goldstein <goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au>
Subject: Re: [governance] From Free Tunisia

Tunisia is not free, they will just be ruled by different despots supported by 
the west as Robert Fisk outlined in the Independent a week or so ago.

Incremental changes maybe, significant change - you're dreaming...

David





________________________________
From: Charity Gamboa <charityg at diplomacy.edu>
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Khaled KOUBAA <khaled.koubaa at gmail.com>
Sent: Fri, 21 January, 2011 5:18:49 AM
Subject: Re: [governance] From Free Tunisia


Hi Khaled,
 
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. When I was a kid, I have 
experienced the terror brought about by a dictator toppled by the will and power 
of its people. I have been in 3 revolutions in my lifetime in the Philippines 
and I would always tell my students here in the US how important freedom is 
until you do not have it anymore. During those times, we did not have the 
Internet to help us with our fight against social injustice. I wonder sometimes 
what it would have been like if the Internet was around and we were able to 
speak freely without being condemned. People in other provinces were not even 
aware of what was going on in Manila because TV shows were censored. We had no 
medium to speak but Filipinos were able to go out in the streets and prove that 
freedom cannot be suppressed even by violent means. That was 25 years ago. But 
more than 300 years of Spanish colonialization and Spanish oppression, the 
Philippines learned, too, that "the pen is mightier than the sword" - or 
perhaps, if another dictator comes along, we can say that the "Internet is 
mightier than an uzi." On the other hand, people in their ivory towers also get 
"smarter" each day and I am very much aware that they will also use the Internet 
to suppress the very freedom we fought for. 

 
Regards,
Charity
 
 
On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 6:48 AM, Khaled KOUBAA <khaled.koubaa at gmail.com> wrote:

All,
>For those who don't know Tunisia : Tunisia is a Small country, great nation. 
>First Arab country that abolished slavery in 1848. First Arab country to 
>establish a constitution in 1861. First Arab country to abolish polygamy in 
>1956. First Arab country to legalize abortion in 1973. Tunisia is the first Arab 
>country to kick out its dictator and this without the help of any foreign 
>nation!
>Today Tunisia has reached a critical and important point in its history after 
>succeeding in its revolution. President Ben Ali has left the country, and 
>government has collapsed leaving the country in an unpredictable situation.
>A new “Coalition Government” has been announced bringing old dissidents and 
>Human Rights activists in team with a main focus of preparing a democratic 
>transition.
>Friday January 14th 2011, ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeLT2PEmnDI ) I have 
>been inside the huge protestants in front of the ministry of Interior and I 
>witnessed brave people asking clearly their dictator to leave.
>Since then Tunisian retrieved their freedom lost many years and began 
>interesting politics.
>Young people went on the street asking for more n and more social change without 
>being politically coached.
>I have witnessed, and have been part, of the strength of the "real" Tunisian 
>Internet community to use Internet and Web 2.0 ( Blogs, Video, Facebook, 
>Twitter, … ) to support the revolution and everyday’s riots showing to the world 
>what’s happening due to a lack of official local media coverage.
>My life has been different during these days : my house is in a hot spot; near 
>El Aouina Army Casern and just between the Airport and the US Embassy. So I took 
>my wife to her father house, and I stayed alone during 5 days. Everything was 
>different each day; night riots with fire shooting between protestants and 
>police during the first 2 days , near helicopter surveillance between army and 
>snipers belonging to Ben Ali Presidential militia during the last 3days.
>I have never felt the importance of the security before that. It was the same 
>feeling that had the Tunisian people which led them to go out and organize 
>“Population committees” in each city to protect each city from Ben Ali militia.
>Tunisian Internet community is free today and will show to the world what we are 
>capable to accomplish.
>
>Vive Internet and thank you Vint and Internet pioneers to gave us this wonderful 
>tool that helped our revolution.
>
>From the free Tunisia
>
>Khaled Koubaa
>____________________________________________________________
>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>   governance at lists.cpsr.org
>To be removed from the list, visit:
>   http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
>For all other list information and functions, see:
>   http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>   http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
>Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


      
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____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


From gurstein at gmail.com  Thu Jan 20 19:29:41 2011
From: gurstein at gmail.com (Michael Gurstein)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 16:29:41 -0800
Subject: [governance] From Free Tunisia
In-Reply-To: <4D3831E0.8010007@paque.net>
Message-ID: <8D427AD9997443348B3BF20868829CFF@userPC>

I'm not sure if this relevent but I've been moved to put some thoughts
down...
 
http://gurstein.wordpress.com/2011/01/20/tunisia-they-have-the-tools-now-wha
t-do-they-do-with-them-thinking-about-what-happens-next/
 
M

-----Original Message-----
From: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org
[mailto:governance-request at lists.cpsr.org] On Behalf Of Ginger Paque
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 5:00 AM
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Khaled KOUBAA
Subject: Re: [governance] From Free Tunisia


Thanks for this post! It is very interesting, particularly in juxtaposition
to Evgeny Morozov's posts. See
http://www.wired.com/magazine/2010/12/st_essay_totalitarians/?utm_source=fee
dburner
<http://www.wired.com/magazine/2010/12/st_essay_totalitarians/?utm_source=fe
edburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+wired%2Findex+%28Wired%3A+Inde
x+3+%28Top+Stories+2%29%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher>
&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+wired%2Findex+%28Wired%3A+Index+3+%28T
op+Stories+2%29%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher

First paragraph:
The Internet advances the cause of freedom more effectively than ballistic
missiles and Hellfire-equipped
<http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Predator-surveillance-drone-equipped-Hellfire
-missiles-US-missiles-have-killed/photo//101122/photos_wl_pc_afp/c90fce2dbd8
26f3ea6145570029d0a02//s:/afp/20101122/wl_asia_afp/pakistanunrestusmissile>
drones; at least that's the conventional wisdom among US diplomats and
policymakers. "Information freedom supports the peace and security that
provide a foundation for global progress" is how Secretary of State Hillary
Clinton put it in a speech last January, her first on democracy and the
Internet. George W. Bush's "freedom agenda" is out; the Twitter agenda is
in. Unfortunately, this kind of technological romanticism relies on false
historical analogies and sloppy thinking. Modern communications technologies
are already being deployed as new forms of repression.

Best, Ginger

On 1/20/2011 8:18 AM, Khaled KOUBAA wrote: 

All, 
For those who don't know Tunisia : Tunisia is a Small country, great nation.
First Arab country that abolished slavery in 1848. First Arab country to
establish a constitution in 1861. First Arab country to abolish polygamy in
1956. First Arab country to legalize abortion in 1973. Tunisia is the first
Arab country to kick out its dictator and this without the help of any
foreign nation! 
Today Tunisia has reached a critical and important point in its history
after succeeding in its revolution. President Ben Ali has left the country,
and government has collapsed leaving the country in an unpredictable
situation. 
A new "Coalition Government" has been announced bringing old dissidents and
Human Rights activists in team with a main focus of preparing a democratic
transition. 
Friday January 14th 2011, ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeLT2PEmnDI ) I
have been inside the huge protestants in front of the ministry of Interior
and I witnessed brave people asking clearly their dictator to leave. 
Since then Tunisian retrieved their freedom lost many years and began
interesting politics. 
Young people went on the street asking for more n and more social change
without being politically coached. 
I have witnessed, and have been part, of the strength of the "real" Tunisian
Internet community to use Internet and Web 2.0 ( Blogs, Video, Facebook,
Twitter, . ) to support the revolution and everyday's riots showing to the
world what's happening due to a lack of official local media coverage. 
My life has been different during these days : my house is in a hot spot;
near El Aouina Army Casern and just between the Airport and the US Embassy.
So I took my wife to her father house, and I stayed alone during 5 days.
Everything was different each day; night riots with fire shooting between
protestants and police during the first 2 days , near helicopter
surveillance between army and snipers belonging to Ben Ali Presidential
militia during the last 3days. 
I have never felt the importance of the security before that. It was the
same feeling that had the Tunisian people which led them to go out and
organize "Population committees" in each city to protect each city from Ben
Ali militia. 
Tunisian Internet community is free today and will show to the world what we
are capable to accomplish. 

Vive Internet and thank you Vint and Internet pioneers to gave us this
wonderful tool that helped our revolution. 

From the free Tunisia 

Khaled Koubaa 
____________________________________________________________ 
You received this message as a subscriber on the list: 
    governance at lists.cpsr.org 
To be removed from the list, visit: 
    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing 

For all other list information and functions, see: 
    http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance 
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see: 
    http://www.igcaucus.org/ 

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t 





-- 



Ginger (Virginia) Paque
IGCBP Online Coordinator
DiploFoundation
www.diplomacy.edu/ig 

The latest from Diplo...
http://igbook.diplomacy.edu  <http://igbook.diplomacy.edu/> is the online
companion to An Introduction to Internet Governance, Diplo's publication on
IG. Download the book, read the blogs and post your comments. 

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____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


From goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au  Thu Jan 20 19:36:13 2011
From: goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au (David Goldstein)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 16:36:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [governance] From Free Tunisia
In-Reply-To: <2137572512-1295568886-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-473834529-@b26.c2.bise3.blackberry>
References: <4D330A81.3020005@nupef.org.br> <006901cbb6a1$60d039c0$2270ad40$@uol.com.br> <95227A668FFBB141A238AE53582A8E11011E66C9@VEXNODE2.man.provincia.mi.it> <4D382F0E.5060705@gmail.com> <AANLkTin+DMuAB29L=q=Zp+bu+7ObYzEir-RMhL4DmLsW@mail.gmail.com><517727.71138.qm@web120506.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <2137572512-1295568886-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-473834529-@b26.c2.bise3.blackberry>
Message-ID: <342046.86279.qm@web120514.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

I'll take Robert Fisk any day. One of the most knowledgeable writers on the 
Middle East. If you read through the archive of what Fisk has written you will 
see he has written many times on Tunisia and every other country in the Middle 
East.



________________________________
From: "rafik.dammak at gmail.com" <rafik.dammak at gmail.com>
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; David Goldstein <goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au>
Sent: Fri, 21 January, 2011 11:15:14 AM
Subject: Re: [governance] From Free Tunisia

Hi David,

Robert Fisk didn't react about Tunisia uprising for 4 weeks and only wrote 
articles at the end, he failed miserably to understand what was happening. I 
advise you to read the articles of Brian Whitaker who followed closely the 
events and even predicted the fall of regime.
Btw it is up to tunisians now,

Rafik
BlackBerry from DOCOMO
________________________________

From:  David Goldstein <goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au> 
Sender:  governance-request at lists.cpsr.org 
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 14:56:53 -0800 (PST)
To: <governance at lists.cpsr.org>
ReplyTo:  governance at lists.cpsr.org,David Goldstein 
<goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au> 

Subject: Re: [governance] From Free Tunisia

Tunisia is not free, they will just be ruled by different despots supported by 
the west as Robert Fisk outlined in the Independent a week or so ago.

Incremental changes maybe, significant change - you're dreaming...

David





________________________________
From: Charity Gamboa <charityg at diplomacy.edu>
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Khaled KOUBAA <khaled.koubaa at gmail.com>
Sent: Fri, 21 January, 2011 5:18:49 AM
Subject: Re: [governance] From Free Tunisia


Hi Khaled,
 
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. When I was a kid, I have 
experienced the terror brought about by a dictator toppled by the will and power 
of its people. I have been in 3 revolutions in my lifetime in the Philippines 
and I would always tell my students here in the US how important freedom is 
until you do not have it anymore. During those times, we did not have the 
Internet to help us with our fight against social injustice. I wonder sometimes 
what it would have been like if the Internet was around and we were able to 
speak freely without being condemned. People in other provinces were not even 
aware of what was going on in Manila because TV shows were censored. We had no 
medium to speak but Filipinos were able to go out in the streets and prove that 
freedom cannot be suppressed even by violent means. That was 25 years ago. But 
more than 300 years of Spanish colonialization and Spanish oppression, the 
Philippines learned, too, that  "the pen is mightier than the sword" - or 
perhaps, if another dictator comes along, we can say that the "Internet is 
mightier than an uzi." On the other hand, people in their ivory towers also get 
"smarter" each day and I am very much aware that they will also use the Internet 
to suppress the very freedom we fought for. 

 
Regards,
Charity
 
 
On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 6:48 AM, Khaled KOUBAA <khaled.koubaa at gmail.com> wrote:

All,
>For those who don't know Tunisia : Tunisia is a Small country, great nation. 
>First Arab country that abolished slavery in 1848. First Arab country to 
>establish a constitution in 1861. First Arab country to abolish polygamy in 
>1956. First Arab country to legalize abortion in 1973. Tunisia is the first Arab 
>country to kick out its dictator and this without the help of any foreign 
>nation!
>Today Tunisia has reached a critical and important point in its history after 
>succeeding in its revolution. President Ben Ali has left the country, and 
>government has collapsed leaving the country in an unpredictable situation.
>A new “Coalition Government” has been announced bringing old dissidents and 
>Human Rights activists in team with a main focus of preparing a democratic 
>transition.
>Friday January 14th 2011, ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeLT2PEmnDI ) I have 
>been inside the huge protestants in front of the ministry of Interior and I 
>witnessed brave people asking clearly their dictator to leave.
>Since then Tunisian retrieved their freedom lost many years and began 
>interesting politics.
>Young people went on the street asking for more n and more social change without 
>being politically coached.
>I have witnessed, and have been part, of the strength of the "real" Tunisian 
>Internet community to use Internet and Web 2.0 ( Blogs, Video, Facebook, 
>Twitter, … ) to support the revolution and everyday’s riots showing to the world 
>what’s happening due to a lack of official local media coverage.
>My life has been different during these days : my house is in a hot spot; near 
>El Aouina Army Casern and just between the Airport and the US Embassy. So I took 
>my wife to her father house, and I stayed alone during 5 days. Everything was 
>different each day; night riots with fire shooting between protestants and 
>police during the first 2 days , near helicopter surveillance between army and 
>snipers belonging to Ben Ali Presidential militia during the last 3days.
>I have never felt the importance of the security before that. It was the same 
>feeling that had the Tunisian people which led them to go out and organize 
>“Population committees” in each city to protect each city from Ben Ali militia.
>Tunisian Internet community is free today and will show to the world what we are 
>capable to accomplish.
>
>Vive Internet and thank you Vint and Internet pioneers to gave us this wonderful 
>tool that helped our revolution.
>
>From the free Tunisia
>
>Khaled Koubaa
>____________________________________________________________
>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>   governance at lists.cpsr.org
>To be removed from the list, visit:
>   http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
>For all other list information and functions, see:
>   http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>   http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
>Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>


      
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____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


From mail at christopherwilkinson.eu  Fri Jan 21 04:08:30 2011
From: mail at christopherwilkinson.eu (CW Mail)
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 10:08:30 +0100
Subject: [governance] Tunisia
In-Reply-To: <342046.86279.qm@web120514.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <4D330A81.3020005@nupef.org.br> <006901cbb6a1$60d039c0$2270ad40$@uol.com.br> <95227A668FFBB141A238AE53582A8E11011E66C9@VEXNODE2.man.provincia.mi.it> <4D382F0E.5060705@gmail.com> <AANLkTin+DMuAB29L=q=Zp+bu+7ObYzEir-RMhL4DmLsW@mail.gmail.com><517727.71138.qm@web120506.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <2137572512-1295568886-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-473834529-@b26.c2.bise3.blackberry> <342046.86279.qm@web120514.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <A75832E3-16A1-49B3-B31C-3CC9FDC5551A@christopherwilkinson.eu>

FYI, the Robert Fisk article is at:

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/the-brutal-truth-about-tunisia-2186287.html

and Brian Whitaker is at:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/brianwhitaker

CW

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To be removed from the list, visit:
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For all other list information and functions, see:
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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


From gpaque at gmail.com  Fri Jan 21 05:07:35 2011
From: gpaque at gmail.com (Ginger Paque)
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 05:37:35 -0430
Subject: Offlist: Private: Re: [governance] From Free Tunisia
In-Reply-To: <517727.71138.qm@web120506.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <4D330A81.3020005@nupef.org.br> <006901cbb6a1$60d039c0$2270ad40$@uol.com.br> <95227A668FFBB141A238AE53582A8E11011E66C9@VEXNODE2.man.provincia.mi.it> <4D382F0E.5060705@gmail.com> <AANLkTin+DMuAB29L=q=Zp+bu+7ObYzEir-RMhL4DmLsW@mail.gmail.com> <517727.71138.qm@web120506.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4D395AE7.1050103@paque.net>

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From gpaque at gmail.com  Fri Jan 21 05:09:40 2011
From: gpaque at gmail.com (Ginger Paque)
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 05:39:40 -0430
Subject: Offlist: Private: Re: [governance] From Free Tunisia
In-Reply-To: <4D395AE7.1050103@paque.net>
References: <4D330A81.3020005@nupef.org.br> <006901cbb6a1$60d039c0$2270ad40$@uol.com.br> <95227A668FFBB141A238AE53582A8E11011E66C9@VEXNODE2.man.provincia.mi.it> <4D382F0E.5060705@gmail.com> <AANLkTin+DMuAB29L=q=Zp+bu+7ObYzEir-RMhL4DmLsW@mail.gmail.com> <517727.71138.qm@web120506.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <4D395AE7.1050103@paque.net>
Message-ID: <4D395B64.7050800@gmail.com>

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From parminder at itforchange.net  Fri Jan 21 05:30:49 2011
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 16:00:49 +0530
Subject: [governance] Tunisia
In-Reply-To: <A75832E3-16A1-49B3-B31C-3CC9FDC5551A@christopherwilkinson.eu>
References: <4D330A81.3020005@nupef.org.br> <006901cbb6a1$60d039c0$2270ad40$@uol.com.br> <95227A668FFBB141A238AE53582A8E11011E66C9@VEXNODE2.man.provincia.mi.it> <4D382F0E.5060705@gmail.com> <AANLkTin+DMuAB29L=q=Zp+bu+7ObYzEir-RMhL4DmLsW@mail.gmail.com><517727.71138.qm@web120506.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <2137572512-1295568886-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-473834529-@b26.c2.bise3.blackberry> <342046.86279.qm@web120514.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <A75832E3-16A1-49B3-B31C-3CC9FDC5551A@christopherwilkinson.eu>
Message-ID: <4D396059.4070102@itforchange.net>

These articles especially the one by Fisk raises important issues about 
the global political discourse. And this is my attempt to connect the 
breath-taking events in Tunisia with the kind of stuff we do here in 
IGC. The article shows how concepts like democracy and FoE are 
instrumentalised by powerful players with vested interests. Even with 
what we all know about the western media, and west interests dominated 
global media - it was quite surprising for me how little news went 
around in the days when these events were unfolding in Tunisia. And in 
relation to it, how the smallest non-event about Iran - of the evil axis 
- is immediately hot global news.

Apparently, western interests supporting authoritarian regimes are not 
only fine, they are needed, but any anti-west regime is immediately and 
unpardonably undemocratic, suppressing human rights and the such.

It is in this respect important that global civil society really knows 
and focuses on what it believes in, what is it trying to achieve and who 
all it aligns with. We seek democracy, equity, power for the people and 
human rights. We basically seek more equitable distribution of power, 
and we fight against undue concentration of power, which almost always 
gets abused.

These are the 'civil society' values. I mention this term 'CS values' 
because I read in one of the emails during the hot discussion on the 
CSTD WG composition how we should judge governments and other actors vis 
a vis their adherence to 'CS values' which set me thinking what really 
was meant by this term. The writer of the email mostly meant MS-ism 
(multistakeholderism).

We need to judge actors in the IG space not just on this one dimension, 
but on the more basic CS values I mention above. And as long as the 
practical impact of some kinds of MS-ism is further concentration of IG 
power in the hands of those who are already most powerful, it hardly 
relates to 'CS values'.This is what one often sees happening in the 
global IG realm .

We need to judge where does the greatest concentration of power lies 
today vis a vis how the Internet is being shaped and used globally, and 
then see what can we do to democratise this power. This in my view is 
the role of civil society in IG, and is what we should judge ourselves 
against.

I came into MS-ism to ensure that IG political space is opened to those 
who are most dis-empowered, and when one sees MS-ism often used as a 
convenient hand maiden by those already most powerful in shaping the 
Internet - mega digital corporations and western govs - and the CS 
blindly and uncritically following the bandwagon, I do think we need 
some serious reconsideration of our ideals and our strategies. I hope 
the proposed initiative by the co-coordinators to relook at IGC's 
vision. strategies etc  does such deep introspection. Parminder




CW Mail wrote:
> FYI, the Robert Fisk article is at:
>
> http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/the-brutal-truth-about-tunisia-2186287.html
>
> and Brian Whitaker is at:
>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/brianwhitaker
>
> CW
>

-- 
PK

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From nb at bollow.ch  Fri Jan 21 08:07:25 2011
From: nb at bollow.ch (Norbert Bollow)
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 14:07:25 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [governance] Tunisia
In-Reply-To: <4D396059.4070102@itforchange.net> (message from parminder on
	Fri, 21 Jan 2011 16:00:49 +0530)
References: <4D330A81.3020005@nupef.org.br> <006901cbb6a1$60d039c0$2270ad40$@uol.com.br> <95227A668FFBB141A238AE53582A8E11011E66C9@VEXNODE2.man.provincia.mi.it> <4D382F0E.5060705@gmail.com> <AANLkTin+DMuAB29L=q=Zp+bu+7ObYzEir-RMhL4DmLsW@mail.gmail.com><517727.71138.qm@web120506.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <2137572512-1295568886-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-473834529-@b26.c2.bise3.blackberry> <342046.86279.qm@web120514.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <A75832E3-16A1-49B3-B31C-3CC9FDC5551A@christopherwilkinson.eu> <4D396059.4070102@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <20110121130725.B833115C197@quill.bollow.ch>

Parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> wrote:

> It is in this respect important that global civil society really knows 
> and focuses on what it believes in, what is it trying to achieve and who 
> all it aligns with. We seek democracy, equity, power for the people and 
> human rights. We basically seek more equitable distribution of power, 
> and we fight against undue concentration of power, which almost always 
> gets abused.

I'd like to wholeheartedly support Parminder's point about putting a
strong emphasis on these most important values.

In my thinking, the key aspect is that of freedom.

Is it good or bad to e.g. strengthen the police? In my view, this
depends on whether the specific ways in which the police would be
strengthened will increase or decrease the freedom enjoyed by
"ordinary people". These freedoms would be increased by measures
that have the effect of making it safe for everyone to walk in any
part of a town at any time of their choosing, day or night. The
freedoms would be decreased by giving the police any powers without
checks and balances that allow the general public to effectively
verify that the powers are not being abused, etc, etc.

I would suggest that these principles apply just as much in the
digital realm as they apply offline.

Greetings,
Norbert
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From mariliamaciel at gmail.com  Fri Jan 21 20:14:57 2011
From: mariliamaciel at gmail.com (Marilia Maciel)
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 23:14:57 -0200
Subject: [governance] Agenda for the next CSTD WG meeting Fwd: Working Group
 on the improvement to the IGF
Message-ID: <AANLkTik=9cnZ5Obi3YeHM92ijXynFiy2kronqNHjVGcb@mail.gmail.com>

The agenda of the next meeting of the CSTD WG has just been released. It is
scheduled for 25 and 26 Feb, back to back with the Open consultations (23
and 24 Feb).

A draft structure of the report has also been proposed (all docs attached).
There are seven substantive questions (II to VIII). Probably separate
e-mails threads for the debate of each question will be necessary.
Suggestions on how to proceed?

Best,

Marilia




---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Mongi Hamdi <Mongi.Hamdi at unctad.org>
Date: Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 9:00 AM
Subject: Working Group on the improvement to the IGF
To: Mongi Hamdi <Mongi.Hamdi at unctad.org>
Cc: Thomas.Schneider at bakom.admin.ch, Frederic.Riehl at bakom.admin.ch,
Franziska Klopfer <Franziska.Klopfer at unctad.org>, Dong Wu <
Dong.Wu at unctad.org>, Malou Pasinos <Malou.Pasinos at unctad.org>


Dear Sir/Madam,

On behalf of Mr. Frederic Riehl, Chair of the Working Group on Improvement
to the Internet Governance Forum (WG-IGF), I have the pleasure to transmit
to you:
(1) a letter informing you about the next meeting of the group, scheduled to
take place in Montreux, Switzerland from 25-26 February 2011;
(2) a timeline for the Group's work; and
(3) a proposed table of content for the report for your consideration and
feedback.

I take this opportunity to inform you that we have received the final lists
of the 5 representatives from each of the stakeholder groups: Business
Community, civil society, and technical and academic community.  With
respect to the five representatives from intergovernmental organizations,
requests have been received from ITU, UNDESA, UNESCO, UNDP, WIPO, UNECA,
UNESCWA, and the Council of Europe.

With best regards,

********************************************* *
Mongi Hamdi
Head of the Secretariat of the United Nations Commission* *
on Science and Technology for Development* *
Palais des Nations* *
Room E-7077, UNCTAD* *
Geneva, Switzerland
Tel. 004122 917 5069*


F,
F




-- 
Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade
FGV Direito Rio

Center for Technology and Society
Getulio Vargas Foundation
Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
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From jeremy at ciroap.org  Fri Jan 21 20:30:33 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 09:30:33 +0800
Subject: [governance] Agenda for the next CSTD WG meeting Fwd: Working
 Group on the improvement to the IGF
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik=9cnZ5Obi3YeHM92ijXynFiy2kronqNHjVGcb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTik=9cnZ5Obi3YeHM92ijXynFiy2kronqNHjVGcb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7EC6376A-1F2D-448A-8E5A-B6EE0D532B68@ciroap.org>

On 22/01/2011, at 9:14 AM, Marilia Maciel wrote:

> The agenda of the next meeting of the CSTD WG has just been released. It is scheduled for 25 and 26 Feb, back to back with the Open consultations (23 and 24 Feb).
> 
> A draft structure of the report has also been proposed (all docs attached). There are seven substantive questions (II to VIII). Probably separate e-mails threads for the debate of each question will be necessary. Suggestions on how to proceed?


I suggest you start these threads in the IGC's CSTD working group mailing list (cstd at igf-online.net), and then summarise back to the main list.

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.

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From parminder at itforchange.net  Sat Jan 22 02:32:52 2011
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 13:02:52 +0530
Subject: [governance] cross-border IG issues
Message-ID: <4D3A8824.5040900@itforchange.net>

Read below to see another instance of how some countries are more equal 
than others owing to the manner in which the global Internet 
architecture and its power nodes are structured today..... It should 
hardly be surprising that most 'other' countries are rather concerned 
about this asymmetry  and concentration of global IG power. 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/01/10/3110066.htm?section=justin

US pursuit of WikiLeaks triggers diplomatic spat
By Jennifer Macey

Updated Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:43pm AEDT

 The US has subpoenaed Twitter to release information from five accounts 
in its investigation of WikiLeaks (AFP: Joe Raedle/Getty Images)

AUDIO: Iceland furious over US subpoena of Twitter accounts (PM)
RELATED STORY: US orders Twitter to disclose WikiLeaks records
The Icelandic government has summoned the US ambassador to explain why 
the US is seeking personal information from the Twitter account of an 
Icelandic MP.

The US has subpoenaed Twitter to release information from five accounts 
- including those of the MP and a Dutch computer programmer - in its 
investigation of whistleblowing website WikiLeaks.

Legal experts say because Twitter is registered in the US, the company 
may be obliged to hand over the information.

The American ambassador to Reykjavik, Luis Arreaga, has been summoned 
for a meeting at Iceland's foreign ministry.

He has been asked to explain why US officials want the Twitter account 
details of an Icelandic MP.

Iceland's interior minister, Ogmundur Jonasson, says the request is not 
being taken lightly.

"It is very serious that a foreign state, the United States, demands 
such personal information of an Icelandic person, an elected official," 
he said.

"This is even more serious when put into perspective and concerns 
freedom of speech and people's freedom in general."

Icelandic MP Birgitta Jonsdottir is one of five Twitter accounts that 
have been subpoenaed by the US Justice Department.

Although she is a former WikiLeaks collaborator, she denies she has 
anything to hide.

"Not at all, that's not what this is all about. This is about a certain 
principle," she said.

"Here we have a government that is demanding a privately-owned company 
to give up personal data.

"I have not done anything that can be considered criminal. It's not 
against the law to leak information, it's not against the law to be a 
source, it's not against the law to publish this information.

"The information in question is about crimes committed by the United 
States government."

Along with Ms Jonsdottir, the US Justice Department sought information 
from four other Twitter accounts.

The WikiLeaks account, Dutch computer programmer Rop Gonggrijp, American 
programmer Jacob Appelbaum, and the account of Private First Class 
Bradley Manning, the US army intelligence analyst accused of leaking the 
classified cables,

Dr Ben Saul, the director of the Sydney Centre for International Law at 
Sydney University, says US officials can issue a subpoena against non-US 
citizens if the company holding that information is registered in the US.

"It certainly does seem that the US is exploring all avenues available 
to it through its domestic law," he said.

"Obviously the US itself has no law enforcement power in Europe or in 
Australia, so what they're obviously trying to do is to obtain the 
information by going after records held by companies which operate in 
the US, which are subject to US law.

"Citizenship doesn't really matter here. The relevant question is, is 
there illegal conduct happening?

"The real question is how will other countries react, you know, will 
other governments try to do things to shut down this kind of investigation?"

The order issued by the US District Court of Virginia on December 14 
gave Twitter three days to release the information, including user 
names, addresses, connection records, telephone numbers and bank details.
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From ajp at glocom.ac.jp  Sat Jan 22 03:35:26 2011
From: ajp at glocom.ac.jp (Adam Peake)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 17:35:26 +0900
Subject: [governance] cross-border IG issues
In-Reply-To: <4D3A8824.5040900@itforchange.net>
References: <4D3A8824.5040900@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <p0624080ac960449f3918@[192.168.1.160]>

This has nothing to do with Internet 
architecture. The US's demands are based on 
Twitter being a US registered company, nothing to 
do with the Internet per se.

FWIW (not worth much :-)) most of Twitter's 
Internet architecture is run by a Japanese 
company, NTT.

Thanks,

Adam



>Read below to see another instance of how some 
>countries are more equal than others owing to 
>the manner in which the global Internet 
>architecture and its power nodes are structured 
>today..... It should hardly be surprising that 
>most 'other' countries are rather concerned 
>about this asymmetry  and concentration of 
>global IG power. 
>
><http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/01/10/3110066.htm?section=justin>http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/01/10/3110066.htm?section=justin
>
>US pursuit of WikiLeaks triggers diplomatic spat
>By Jennifer Macey
>
>Updated Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:43pm AEDT
>
>  The US has subpoenaed Twitter to release 
>information from five accounts in its 
>investigation of WikiLeaks (AFP: Joe 
>Raedle/Getty Images)
>
>AUDIO: Iceland furious over US subpoena of Twitter accounts (PM)
>RELATED STORY: US orders Twitter to disclose WikiLeaks records
>The Icelandic government has summoned the US 
>ambassador to explain why the US is seeking 
>personal information from the Twitter account of 
>an Icelandic MP.
>
>The US has subpoenaed Twitter to release 
>information from five accounts - including those 
>of the MP and a Dutch computer programmer - in 
>its investigation of whistleblowing website 
>WikiLeaks.
>
>Legal experts say because Twitter is registered 
>in the US, the company may be obliged to hand 
>over the information.
>
>The American ambassador to Reykjavik, Luis 
>Arreaga, has been summoned for a meeting at 
>Iceland's foreign ministry.
>
>He has been asked to explain why US officials 
>want the Twitter account details of an Icelandic 
>MP.
>
>Iceland's interior minister, Ogmundur Jonasson, 
>says the request is not being taken lightly.
>
>"It is very serious that a foreign state, the 
>United States, demands such personal information 
>of an Icelandic person, an elected official," he 
>said.
>
>"This is even more serious when put into 
>perspective and concerns freedom of speech and 
>people's freedom in general."
>
>Icelandic MP Birgitta Jonsdottir is one of five 
>Twitter accounts that have been subpoenaed by 
>the US Justice Department.
>
>Although she is a former WikiLeaks collaborator, 
>she denies she has anything to hide.
>
>"Not at all, that's not what this is all about. 
>This is about a certain principle," she said.
>
>"Here we have a government that is demanding a 
>privately-owned company to give up personal data.
>
>"I have not done anything that can be considered 
>criminal. It's not against the law to leak 
>information, it's not against the law to be a 
>source, it's not against the law to publish this 
>information.
>
>"The information in question is about crimes 
>committed by the United States government."
>
>Along with Ms Jonsdottir, the US Justice 
>Department sought information from four other 
>Twitter accounts.
>
>The WikiLeaks account, Dutch computer programmer 
>Rop Gonggrijp, American programmer Jacob 
>Appelbaum, and the account of Private First 
>Class Bradley Manning, the US army intelligence 
>analyst accused of leaking the classified cables,
>
>Dr Ben Saul, the director of the Sydney Centre 
>for International Law at Sydney University, says 
>US officials can issue a subpoena against non-US 
>citizens if the company holding that information 
>is registered in the US.
>
>"It certainly does seem that the US is exploring 
>all avenues available to it through its domestic 
>law," he said.
>
>"Obviously the US itself has no law enforcement 
>power in Europe or in Australia, so what they're 
>obviously trying to do is to obtain the 
>information by going after records held by 
>companies which operate in the US, which are 
>subject to US law.
>
>"Citizenship doesn't really matter here. The 
>relevant question is, is there illegal conduct 
>happening?
>
>"The real question is how will other countries 
>react, you know, will other governments try to 
>do things to shut down this kind of 
>investigation?"
>
>The order issued by the US District Court of 
>Virginia on December 14 gave Twitter three days 
>to release the information, including user 
>names, addresses, connection records, telephone 
>numbers and bank details.
>
>____________________________________________________________
>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
>To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
>For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
>Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

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From fouadbajwa at gmail.com  Sat Jan 22 04:21:38 2011
From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Bajwa)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 14:21:38 +0500
Subject: [governance] cross-border IG issues
In-Reply-To: <p0624080ac960449f3918@192.168.1.160>
References: <4D3A8824.5040900@itforchange.net>
	<p0624080ac960449f3918@192.168.1.160>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinnTuRjMvB_BbX1btS1KbpZd91orSnvgxECHRHO@mail.gmail.com>

I guess what Parminder meant is that the power play on the Internet is
at the end of the day usually with the powerful countries :o) and yes,
that does affect the architecture of the Internet. Its just a matter
of perspective and that does vary according to geographical and
economical dissimilarities.

-- Cheeers


Fouad

On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Adam Peake <ajp at glocom.ac.jp> wrote:
> This has nothing to do with Internet architecture. The US's demands are
> based on Twitter being a US registered company, nothing to do with the
> Internet per se.
>
> FWIW (not worth much :-)) most of Twitter's Internet architecture is run by
> a Japanese company, NTT.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Adam
>
>
>
>> Read below to see another instance of how some countries are more equal
>> than others owing to the manner in which the global Internet architecture
>> and its power nodes are structured today..... It should hardly be surprising
>> that most 'other' countries are rather concerned about this asymmetry  and
>> concentration of global IG power.
>>
>>
>> <http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/01/10/3110066.htm?section=justin>http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/01/10/3110066.htm?section=justin
>>
>> US pursuit of WikiLeaks triggers diplomatic spat
>> By Jennifer Macey
>>
>> Updated Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:43pm AEDT
>>
>>  The US has subpoenaed Twitter to release information from five accounts
>> in its investigation of WikiLeaks (AFP: Joe Raedle/Getty Images)
>>
>> AUDIO: Iceland furious over US subpoena of Twitter accounts (PM)
>> RELATED STORY: US orders Twitter to disclose WikiLeaks records
>> The Icelandic government has summoned the US ambassador to explain why the
>> US is seeking personal information from the Twitter account of an Icelandic
>> MP.
>>
>> The US has subpoenaed Twitter to release information from five accounts -
>> including those of the MP and a Dutch computer programmer - in its
>> investigation of whistleblowing website WikiLeaks.
>>
>> Legal experts say because Twitter is registered in the US, the company may
>> be obliged to hand over the information.
>>
>> The American ambassador to Reykjavik, Luis Arreaga, has been summoned for
>> a meeting at Iceland's foreign ministry.
>>
>> He has been asked to explain why US officials want the Twitter account
>> details of an Icelandic MP.
>>
>> Iceland's interior minister, Ogmundur Jonasson, says the request is not
>> being taken lightly.
>>
>> "It is very serious that a foreign state, the United States, demands such
>> personal information of an Icelandic person, an elected official," he said.
>>
>> "This is even more serious when put into perspective and concerns freedom
>> of speech and people's freedom in general."
>>
>> Icelandic MP Birgitta Jonsdottir is one of five Twitter accounts that have
>> been subpoenaed by the US Justice Department.
>>
>> Although she is a former WikiLeaks collaborator, she denies she has
>> anything to hide.
>>
>> "Not at all, that's not what this is all about. This is about a certain
>> principle," she said.
>>
>> "Here we have a government that is demanding a privately-owned company to
>> give up personal data.
>>
>> "I have not done anything that can be considered criminal. It's not
>> against the law to leak information, it's not against the law to be a
>> source, it's not against the law to publish this information.
>>
>> "The information in question is about crimes committed by the United
>> States government."
>>
>> Along with Ms Jonsdottir, the US Justice Department sought information
>> from four other Twitter accounts.
>>
>> The WikiLeaks account, Dutch computer programmer Rop Gonggrijp, American
>> programmer Jacob Appelbaum, and the account of Private First Class Bradley
>> Manning, the US army intelligence analyst accused of leaking the classified
>> cables,
>>
>> Dr Ben Saul, the director of the Sydney Centre for International Law at
>> Sydney University, says US officials can issue a subpoena against non-US
>> citizens if the company holding that information is registered in the US.
>>
>> "It certainly does seem that the US is exploring all avenues available to
>> it through its domestic law," he said.
>>
>> "Obviously the US itself has no law enforcement power in Europe or in
>> Australia, so what they're obviously trying to do is to obtain the
>> information by going after records held by companies which operate in the
>> US, which are subject to US law.
>>
>> "Citizenship doesn't really matter here. The relevant question is, is
>> there illegal conduct happening?
>>
>> "The real question is how will other countries react, you know, will other
>> governments try to do things to shut down this kind of investigation?"
>>
>> The order issued by the US District Court of Virginia on December 14 gave
>> Twitter three days to release the information, including user names,
>> addresses, connection records, telephone numbers and bank details.
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>    governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
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>
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From parminder at itforchange.net  Sat Jan 22 04:24:22 2011
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 14:54:22 +0530
Subject: [governance] cross-border IG issues
In-Reply-To: <p0624080ac960449f3918@[192.168.1.160]>
References: <4D3A8824.5040900@itforchange.net> <p0624080ac960449f3918@[192.168.1.160]>
Message-ID: <4D3AA246.2080207@itforchange.net>



Adam Peake wrote:
> This has nothing to do with Internet architecture. The US's demands 
> are based on Twitter being a US registered company, nothing to do with 
> the Internet per se.
I mean the whole socio-technical architecture of the Internet. It is a 
mistake, at least from its overall governance and socio-political 
implications points of view, to see the Internet merely as a technical 
system. My statement is in the context of the larger view of what is 
Internet governance, and the Internet's socio-political architecture and 
its power nodes - in the present case, the extra-ordinary control that 
the US gov has over it relative to any other body.

BTW, this is an interesting discussion. Defining what is the Internet, 
before we define IG. A narrow definition of IG as basically dealing with 
Internet's technical architecture as against a broader one signifying a 
new techno-social system, is behind many a misunderstandings and 
mis-communications that often arise in discussion on this list.

For instance, when I may underscore the need for new global policy 
institutions that could ensure greater egalitarianism in Internet's 
development in terms of its social, economic and political impact, McTim 
would generally respond by exhorting us to put aside such idle talk and 
come and participate in places where the 'actual IG' takes place.

Adam, I am completely in disagreement with you that this has nothing to 
do with Internet per se. For me, and to most people, Internet is also 
google, facebook, twitter, online forums of resistance and the such... 
It is not just the IP protocol, DNS, registries and such kind of stuff.

The fact that all the above mega corporates, as well as ICANN itself, 
are as you say are companies registered in the US is a huge IG issue. I 
dont want my personal data to be accessed by anyone without my consent. 
And if exceptional conditions of possible involvement in a crime etc are 
involved I would have it handled only by a body/ authority  in whose 
constitution I have a democratic role, which regrettably is not the case 
with the US gov.

Parminder

>
> FWIW (not worth much :-)) most of Twitter's Internet architecture is 
> run by a Japanese company, NTT.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Adam
>
>
>
>> Read below to see another instance of how some countries are more 
>> equal than others owing to the manner in which the global Internet 
>> architecture and its power nodes are structured today..... It should 
>> hardly be surprising that most 'other' countries are rather concerned 
>> about this asymmetry  and concentration of global IG power. 
>>
>> <http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/01/10/3110066.htm?section=justin>http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/01/10/3110066.htm?section=justin 
>>
>>
>> US pursuit of WikiLeaks triggers diplomatic spat
>> By Jennifer Macey
>>
>> Updated Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:43pm AEDT
>>
>>  The US has subpoenaed Twitter to release information from five 
>> accounts in its investigation of WikiLeaks (AFP: Joe Raedle/Getty 
>> Images)
>>
>> AUDIO: Iceland furious over US subpoena of Twitter accounts (PM)
>> RELATED STORY: US orders Twitter to disclose WikiLeaks records
>> The Icelandic government has summoned the US ambassador to explain 
>> why the US is seeking personal information from the Twitter account 
>> of an Icelandic MP.
>>
>> The US has subpoenaed Twitter to release information from five 
>> accounts - including those of the MP and a Dutch computer programmer 
>> - in its investigation of whistleblowing website WikiLeaks.
>>
>> Legal experts say because Twitter is registered in the US, the 
>> company may be obliged to hand over the information.
>>
>> The American ambassador to Reykjavik, Luis Arreaga, has been summoned 
>> for a meeting at Iceland's foreign ministry.
>>
>> He has been asked to explain why US officials want the Twitter 
>> account details of an Icelandic MP.
>>
>> Iceland's interior minister, Ogmundur Jonasson, says the request is 
>> not being taken lightly.
>>
>> "It is very serious that a foreign state, the United States, demands 
>> such personal information of an Icelandic person, an elected 
>> official," he said.
>>
>> "This is even more serious when put into perspective and concerns 
>> freedom of speech and people's freedom in general."
>>
>> Icelandic MP Birgitta Jonsdottir is one of five Twitter accounts that 
>> have been subpoenaed by the US Justice Department.
>>
>> Although she is a former WikiLeaks collaborator, she denies she has 
>> anything to hide.
>>
>> "Not at all, that's not what this is all about. This is about a 
>> certain principle," she said.
>>
>> "Here we have a government that is demanding a privately-owned 
>> company to give up personal data.
>>
>> "I have not done anything that can be considered criminal. It's not 
>> against the law to leak information, it's not against the law to be a 
>> source, it's not against the law to publish this information.
>>
>> "The information in question is about crimes committed by the United 
>> States government."
>>
>> Along with Ms Jonsdottir, the US Justice Department sought 
>> information from four other Twitter accounts.
>>
>> The WikiLeaks account, Dutch computer programmer Rop Gonggrijp, 
>> American programmer Jacob Appelbaum, and the account of Private First 
>> Class Bradley Manning, the US army intelligence analyst accused of 
>> leaking the classified cables,
>>
>> Dr Ben Saul, the director of the Sydney Centre for International Law 
>> at Sydney University, says US officials can issue a subpoena against 
>> non-US citizens if the company holding that information is registered 
>> in the US.
>>
>> "It certainly does seem that the US is exploring all avenues 
>> available to it through its domestic law," he said.
>>
>> "Obviously the US itself has no law enforcement power in Europe or in 
>> Australia, so what they're obviously trying to do is to obtain the 
>> information by going after records held by companies which operate in 
>> the US, which are subject to US law.
>>
>> "Citizenship doesn't really matter here. The relevant question is, is 
>> there illegal conduct happening?
>>
>> "The real question is how will other countries react, you know, will 
>> other governments try to do things to shut down this kind of 
>> investigation?"
>>
>> The order issued by the US District Court of Virginia on December 14 
>> gave Twitter three days to release the information, including user 
>> names, addresses, connection records, telephone numbers and bank 
>> details.
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>

-- 
PK

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From fouadbajwa at gmail.com  Sat Jan 22 04:25:06 2011
From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Bajwa)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 14:25:06 +0500
Subject: [governance] Agenda for the next CSTD WG meeting Fwd: Working
 Group on the improvement to the IGF
In-Reply-To: <7EC6376A-1F2D-448A-8E5A-B6EE0D532B68@ciroap.org>
References: <AANLkTik=9cnZ5Obi3YeHM92ijXynFiy2kronqNHjVGcb@mail.gmail.com>
	<7EC6376A-1F2D-448A-8E5A-B6EE0D532B68@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=7aDF8iB+fpbJytcHLde4uzY5UcJU-58n58as_@mail.gmail.com>

Is the thread/mailing list open or closed?

-- Fouad?

On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 6:30 AM, Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org> wrote:
> On 22/01/2011, at 9:14 AM, Marilia Maciel wrote:
>
> The agenda of the next meeting of the CSTD WG has just been released. It is
> scheduled for 25 and 26 Feb, back to back with the Open consultations (23
> and 24 Feb).
>
> A draft structure of the report has also been proposed (all docs attached).
> There are seven substantive questions (II to VIII). Probably separate
> e-mails threads for the debate of each question will be necessary.
> Suggestions on how to proceed?
>
> I suggest you start these threads in the IGC's CSTD working group mailing
> list (cstd at igf-online.net), and then summarise back to the main list.
>
> --
>
> Jeremy Malcolm
> Project Coordinator
> Consumers International
> Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
> Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
> Malaysia
> Tel: +60 3 7726 1599
>
> Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers
> CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
> Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer
> groups from around the world
> for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to
> consumers. Register now!
> http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
> Twitter #CICongress
> Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless
> necessary.
>
> ____________________________________________________________
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From ian.peter at ianpeter.com  Sat Jan 22 04:33:40 2011
From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:33:40 +1100
Subject: [governance] cross-border IG issues
In-Reply-To: <4D3AA246.2080207@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <C960EFA4.1587D%ian.peter@ianpeter.com>

Jovan¹s article on this is well worth reading

http://deepdip.wordpress.com/2011/01/14/after-the-deluge-internet-governance
-in-the-aftermath-of-wikileaks/





From: parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
Reply-To: <governance at lists.cpsr.org>, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 14:54:22 +0530
To: <governance at lists.cpsr.org>, Adam Peake <ajp at glocom.ac.jp>
Subject: Re: [governance] cross-border IG issues



Adam Peake wrote: 
> This has nothing to do with Internet architecture. The US's demands are based
> on Twitter being a US registered company, nothing to do with the Internet per
> se. 
I mean the whole socio-technical architecture of the Internet. It is a
mistake, at least from its overall governance and socio-political
implications points of view, to see the Internet merely as a technical
system. My statement is in the context of the larger view of what is
Internet governance, and the Internet's socio-political architecture and its
power nodes - in the present case, the extra-ordinary control that the US
gov has over it relative to any other body.

BTW, this is an interesting discussion. Defining what is the Internet,
before we define IG. A narrow definition of IG as basically dealing with
Internet's technical architecture as against a broader one signifying a new
techno-social system, is behind many a misunderstandings and
mis-communications that often arise in discussion on this list.

For instance, when I may underscore the need for new global policy
institutions that could ensure greater egalitarianism in Internet's
development in terms of its social, economic and political impact, McTim
would generally respond by exhorting us to put aside such idle talk and come
and participate in places where the 'actual IG' takes place.

Adam, I am completely in disagreement with you that this has nothing to do
with Internet per se. For me, and to most people, Internet is also google,
facebook, twitter, online forums of resistance and the such... It is not
just the IP protocol, DNS, registries and such kind of stuff.

The fact that all the above mega corporates, as well as ICANN itself, are as
you say are companies registered in the US is a huge IG issue. I dont want
my personal data to be accessed by anyone without my consent. And if
exceptional conditions of possible involvement in a crime etc are involved I
would have it handled only by a body/ authority  in whose constitution I
have a democratic role, which regrettably is not the case with the US gov.

Parminder 

> 
> FWIW (not worth much :-)) most of Twitter's Internet architecture is run by a
> Japanese company, NTT.
>  
> Thanks, 
>  
> Adam 
>  
>  
>  
>  
>> Read below to see another instance of how some countries are more equal than
>> others owing to the manner in which the global Internet architecture and its
>> power nodes are structured today..... It should hardly be surprising that
>> most 'other' countries are rather concerned about this asymmetry  and
>> concentration of global IG power.
>>  
>> <http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/01/10/3110066.htm?section=justin>htt
>> p://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/01/10/3110066.htm?section=justin
>>  
>> US pursuit of WikiLeaks triggers diplomatic spat
>> By Jennifer Macey
>>  
>> Updated Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:43pm AEDT
>>  
>>  The US has subpoenaed Twitter to release information from five accounts in
>> its investigation of WikiLeaks (AFP: Joe Raedle/Getty Images)
>>  
>> AUDIO: Iceland furious over US subpoena of Twitter accounts (PM)
>> RELATED STORY: US orders Twitter to disclose WikiLeaks records
>> The Icelandic government has summoned the US ambassador to explain why the US
>> is seeking personal information from the Twitter account of an Icelandic MP.
>>  
>> The US has subpoenaed Twitter to release information from five accounts -
>> including those of the MP and a Dutch computer programmer - in its
>> investigation of whistleblowing website WikiLeaks.
>>  
>> Legal experts say because Twitter is registered in the US, the company may be
>> obliged to hand over the information.
>>  
>> The American ambassador to Reykjavik, Luis Arreaga, has been summoned for a
>> meeting at Iceland's foreign ministry.
>>  
>> He has been asked to explain why US officials want the Twitter account
>> details of an Icelandic MP.
>>  
>> Iceland's interior minister, Ogmundur Jonasson, says the request is not being
>> taken lightly. 
>>  
>> "It is very serious that a foreign state, the United States, demands such
>> personal information of an Icelandic person, an elected official," he said.
>>  
>> "This is even more serious when put into perspective and concerns freedom of
>> speech and people's freedom in general."
>>  
>> Icelandic MP Birgitta Jonsdottir is one of five Twitter accounts that have
>> been subpoenaed by the US Justice Department.
>>  
>> Although she is a former WikiLeaks collaborator, she denies she has anything
>> to hide. 
>>  
>> "Not at all, that's not what this is all about. This is about a certain
>> principle," she said.
>>  
>> "Here we have a government that is demanding a privately-owned company to
>> give up personal data.
>>  
>> "I have not done anything that can be considered criminal. It's not against
>> the law to leak information, it's not against the law to be a source, it's
>> not against the law to publish this information.
>>  
>> "The information in question is about crimes committed by the United States
>> government." 
>>  
>> Along with Ms Jonsdottir, the US Justice Department sought information from
>> four other Twitter accounts.
>>  
>> The WikiLeaks account, Dutch computer programmer Rop Gonggrijp, American
>> programmer Jacob Appelbaum, and the account of Private First Class Bradley
>> Manning, the US army intelligence analyst accused of leaking the classified
>> cables, 
>>  
>> Dr Ben Saul, the director of the Sydney Centre for International Law at
>> Sydney University, says US officials can issue a subpoena against non-US
>> citizens if the company holding that information is registered in the US.
>>  
>> "It certainly does seem that the US is exploring all avenues available to it
>> through its domestic law," he said.
>>  
>> "Obviously the US itself has no law enforcement power in Europe or in
>> Australia, so what they're obviously trying to do is to obtain the
>> information by going after records held by companies which operate in the US,
>> which are subject to US law.
>>  
>> "Citizenship doesn't really matter here. The relevant question is, is there
>> illegal conduct happening?
>>  
>> "The real question is how will other countries react, you know, will other
>> governments try to do things to shut down this kind of investigation?"
>>  
>> The order issued by the US District Court of Virginia on December 14 gave
>> Twitter three days to release the information, including user names,
>> addresses, connection records, telephone numbers and bank details.
>>  
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>  
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>  
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>  
>  
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>  
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>  
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>  
>  

-- 
PK


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From fouadbajwa at gmail.com  Sat Jan 22 04:36:47 2011
From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Bajwa)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 14:36:47 +0500
Subject: [governance] cross-border IG issues
In-Reply-To: <C960EFA4.1587D%ian.peter@ianpeter.com>
References: <4D3AA246.2080207@itforchange.net>
	<C960EFA4.1587D%ian.peter@ianpeter.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=4Y39NSdqVFs4hycMz399QPL81jD15rg=9bRhD@mail.gmail.com>

Yeup, shows single country control chaos!

-- 

Foo

On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 2:33 PM, Ian Peter <ian.peter at ianpeter.com> wrote:
> Jovan’s article on this is well worth reading
>
> http://deepdip.wordpress.com/2011/01/14/after-the-deluge-internet-governance-in-the-aftermath-of-wikileaks/
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
> Reply-To: <governance at lists.cpsr.org>, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 14:54:22 +0530
> To: <governance at lists.cpsr.org>, Adam Peake <ajp at glocom.ac.jp>
> Subject: Re: [governance] cross-border IG issues
>
>
>
> Adam Peake wrote:
>
> This has nothing to do with Internet architecture. The US's demands are
> based on Twitter being a US registered company, nothing to do with the
> Internet per se.
>
> I mean the whole socio-technical architecture of the Internet. It is a
> mistake, at least from its overall governance and socio-political
> implications points of view, to see the Internet merely as a technical
> system. My statement is in the context of the larger view of what is
> Internet governance, and the Internet's socio-political architecture and its
> power nodes - in the present case, the extra-ordinary control that the US
> gov has over it relative to any other body.
>
> BTW, this is an interesting discussion. Defining what is the Internet,
> before we define IG. A narrow definition of IG as basically dealing with
> Internet's technical architecture as against a broader one signifying a new
> techno-social system, is behind many a misunderstandings and
> mis-communications that often arise in discussion on this list.
>
> For instance, when I may underscore the need for new global policy
> institutions that could ensure greater egalitarianism in Internet's
> development in terms of its social, economic and political impact, McTim
> would generally respond by exhorting us to put aside such idle talk and come
> and participate in places where the 'actual IG' takes place.
>
> Adam, I am completely in disagreement with you that this has nothing to do
> with Internet per se. For me, and to most people, Internet is also google,
> facebook, twitter, online forums of resistance and the such... It is not
> just the IP protocol, DNS, registries and such kind of stuff.
>
> The fact that all the above mega corporates, as well as ICANN itself, are as
> you say are companies registered in the US is a huge IG issue. I dont want
> my personal data to be accessed by anyone without my consent. And if
> exceptional conditions of possible involvement in a crime etc are involved I
> would have it handled only by a body/ authority  in whose constitution I
> have a democratic role, which regrettably is not the case with the US gov.
>
> Parminder
>
>
> FWIW (not worth much :-)) most of Twitter's Internet architecture is run by
> a Japanese company, NTT.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> Read below to see another instance of how some countries are more equal than
> others owing to the manner in which the global Internet architecture and its
> power nodes are structured today..... It should hardly be surprising that
> most 'other' countries are rather concerned about this asymmetry  and
> concentration of global IG power.
>
> <http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/01/10/3110066.htm?section=justin>http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/01/10/3110066.htm?section=justin
>
> US pursuit of WikiLeaks triggers diplomatic spat
> By Jennifer Macey
>
> Updated Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:43pm AEDT
>
>  The US has subpoenaed Twitter to release information from five accounts in
> its investigation of WikiLeaks (AFP: Joe Raedle/Getty Images)
>
> AUDIO: Iceland furious over US subpoena of Twitter accounts (PM)
> RELATED STORY: US orders Twitter to disclose WikiLeaks records
> The Icelandic government has summoned the US ambassador to explain why the
> US is seeking personal information from the Twitter account of an Icelandic
> MP.
>
> The US has subpoenaed Twitter to release information from five accounts -
> including those of the MP and a Dutch computer programmer - in its
> investigation of whistleblowing website WikiLeaks.
>
> Legal experts say because Twitter is registered in the US, the company may
> be obliged to hand over the information.
>
> The American ambassador to Reykjavik, Luis Arreaga, has been summoned for a
> meeting at Iceland's foreign ministry.
>
> He has been asked to explain why US officials want the Twitter account
> details of an Icelandic MP.
>
> Iceland's interior minister, Ogmundur Jonasson, says the request is not
> being taken lightly.
>
> "It is very serious that a foreign state, the United States, demands such
> personal information of an Icelandic person, an elected official," he said.
>
> "This is even more serious when put into perspective and concerns freedom of
> speech and people's freedom in general."
>
> Icelandic MP Birgitta Jonsdottir is one of five Twitter accounts that have
> been subpoenaed by the US Justice Department.
>
> Although she is a former WikiLeaks collaborator, she denies she has anything
> to hide.
>
> "Not at all, that's not what this is all about. This is about a certain
> principle," she said.
>
> "Here we have a government that is demanding a privately-owned company to
> give up personal data.
>
> "I have not done anything that can be considered criminal. It's not against
> the law to leak information, it's not against the law to be a source, it's
> not against the law to publish this information.
>
> "The information in question is about crimes committed by the United States
> government."
>
> Along with Ms Jonsdottir, the US Justice Department sought information from
> four other Twitter accounts.
>
> The WikiLeaks account, Dutch computer programmer Rop Gonggrijp, American
> programmer Jacob Appelbaum, and the account of Private First Class Bradley
> Manning, the US army intelligence analyst accused of leaking the classified
> cables,
>
> Dr Ben Saul, the director of the Sydney Centre for International Law at
> Sydney University, says US officials can issue a subpoena against non-US
> citizens if the company holding that information is registered in the US.
>
> "It certainly does seem that the US is exploring all avenues available to it
> through its domestic law," he said.
>
> "Obviously the US itself has no law enforcement power in Europe or in
> Australia, so what they're obviously trying to do is to obtain the
> information by going after records held by companies which operate in the
> US, which are subject to US law.
>
> "Citizenship doesn't really matter here. The relevant question is, is there
> illegal conduct happening?
>
> "The real question is how will other countries react, you know, will other
> governments try to do things to shut down this kind of investigation?"
>
> The order issued by the US District Court of Virginia on December 14 gave
> Twitter three days to release the information, including user names,
> addresses, connection records, telephone numbers and bank details.
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
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>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>
> --
> PK
>
> ________________________________
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
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> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
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>
>
>



-- 
Regards.
--------------------------
Fouad Bajwa
____________________________________________________________
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From parminder at itforchange.net  Sat Jan 22 04:38:49 2011
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 15:08:49 +0530
Subject: [governance] Agenda for the next CSTD WG meeting Fwd: Working
 Group on the improvement to the IGF
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=7aDF8iB+fpbJytcHLde4uzY5UcJU-58n58as_@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTik=9cnZ5Obi3YeHM92ijXynFiy2kronqNHjVGcb@mail.gmail.com>	<7EC6376A-1F2D-448A-8E5A-B6EE0D532B68@ciroap.org> <AANLkTi=7aDF8iB+fpbJytcHLde4uzY5UcJU-58n58as_@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D3AA5A9.1000807@itforchange.net>

I think we should have an open discussion on the list. The only case 
against such an open discussion could have been that it may become too 
unwieldy etc to help the IGC in the immediate task of informing the work 
of WGIGF. However, we have seen that despite a couple of exhortations on 
the list no discussion on IGF improvements have taken off. So any such 
fear of things becoming too open ended and thus de-focussed may not be 
justified, at least for the present. Parminder

Fouad Bajwa wrote:
> Is the thread/mailing list open or closed?
>
> -- Fouad?
>
> On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 6:30 AM, Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org> wrote:
>   
>> On 22/01/2011, at 9:14 AM, Marilia Maciel wrote:
>>
>> The agenda of the next meeting of the CSTD WG has just been released. It is
>> scheduled for 25 and 26 Feb, back to back with the Open consultations (23
>> and 24 Feb).
>>
>> A draft structure of the report has also been proposed (all docs attached).
>> There are seven substantive questions (II to VIII). Probably separate
>> e-mails threads for the debate of each question will be necessary.
>> Suggestions on how to proceed?
>>
>> I suggest you start these threads in the IGC's CSTD working group mailing
>> list (cstd at igf-online.net), and then summarise back to the main list.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Jeremy Malcolm
>> Project Coordinator
>> Consumers International
>> Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
>> Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
>> Malaysia
>> Tel: +60 3 7726 1599
>>
>> Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers
>> CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
>> Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer
>> groups from around the world
>> for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to
>> consumers. Register now!
>> http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
>> Twitter #CICongress
>> Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless
>> necessary.
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>
>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>
>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>
>>
>>
>>     
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
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>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>   

-- 
PK

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____________________________________________________________
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From jeremy at ciroap.org  Sat Jan 22 04:43:39 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 17:43:39 +0800
Subject: [governance] Agenda for the next CSTD WG meeting Fwd: Working
 Group on the improvement to the IGF
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=7aDF8iB+fpbJytcHLde4uzY5UcJU-58n58as_@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTik=9cnZ5Obi3YeHM92ijXynFiy2kronqNHjVGcb@mail.gmail.com> <7EC6376A-1F2D-448A-8E5A-B6EE0D532B68@ciroap.org> <AANLkTi=7aDF8iB+fpbJytcHLde4uzY5UcJU-58n58as_@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E0118F02-C840-44C1-A477-8E029D155B52@ciroap.org>

On 22/01/2011, at 5:25 PM, Fouad Bajwa wrote:

> Is the thread/mailing list open or closed?

The mailing list is open, but only those who were (originally) chosen for the IGC's CSTD working group are currently on it.  The archive is at http://igf-online.net/wws/arc/cstd.

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
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     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


From fouadbajwa at gmail.com  Sat Jan 22 04:49:10 2011
From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Bajwa)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 14:49:10 +0500
Subject: [governance] Agenda for the next CSTD WG meeting Fwd: Working
 Group on the improvement to the IGF
In-Reply-To: <E0118F02-C840-44C1-A477-8E029D155B52@ciroap.org>
References: <AANLkTik=9cnZ5Obi3YeHM92ijXynFiy2kronqNHjVGcb@mail.gmail.com>
	<7EC6376A-1F2D-448A-8E5A-B6EE0D532B68@ciroap.org>
	<AANLkTi=7aDF8iB+fpbJytcHLde4uzY5UcJU-58n58as_@mail.gmail.com>
	<E0118F02-C840-44C1-A477-8E029D155B52@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=LWqgWSSbY12PXGFkw5U_fH0p9OVi1eDXrHinQ@mail.gmail.com>

I am unable to find a public notification or IGC consensus on having
such a list run in a closed environment or limiting access to only a
group?

My bad if I may have missed such a communication?

-- Foo

On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 2:43 PM, Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org> wrote:
> On 22/01/2011, at 5:25 PM, Fouad Bajwa wrote:
>
>> Is the thread/mailing list open or closed?
>
> The mailing list is open, but only those who were (originally) chosen for the IGC's CSTD working group are currently on it.  The archive is at http://igf-online.net/wws/arc/cstd.
>
> --
> Jeremy Malcolm
> Project Coordinator
> Consumers International
> Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
> Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
> Tel: +60 3 7726 1599
>
> Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers
> CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
> Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
> for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
> http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
> Twitter #CICongress
>
> Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.
>
>



-- 
Regards.
--------------------------
Fouad Bajwa
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t


From parminder at itforchange.net  Sat Jan 22 04:54:15 2011
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 15:24:15 +0530
Subject: [governance] cross-border IG issues
In-Reply-To: <C960EFA4.1587D%ian.peter@ianpeter.com>
References: <C960EFA4.1587D%ian.peter@ianpeter.com>
Message-ID: <4D3AA947.8090608@itforchange.net>

Yes, a very good article. Certainly worth reading.

To quote

"On the one hand, they (gov other than the US) will continue reclaiming 
control of their national e-spaces, with the risk of fragmentation of 
the global Internet. On the other hand, they will accelerate pressure on 
the USA towards complete internationalisation of Internet governance 
and, in particular, of ICANN."

The point is, what are we the global IG related civil society doing 
about it. What is our stand on these major and pressing IG issues.

"Paradoxically, the USA, which has resisted the internationalisation of 
Internet governance, may become one of its main proponents in 2011. With 
almost all major Internet companies based in the USA (Google, Facebook, 
Yahoo), and most Internet traffic passing through the USA, and with 
English as the main language, the main sufferer  of a possible Internet 
fragmentation could be the United States. For example, if other 
countries start creating their own national clouds, the main casualty 
will be companies like Amazon, Google, and Facebook.By having 
internationally agreed rules, the USA can foster the preservation of one 
Internet. The necessary rules could be agreed upon by an international 
convention on the Internet ...."

Very much doubt that US will take such a stand. BTW, IBSA (India, S 
Africa and Brazil) countries (as also my own organization) did call for 
such a possible new global institutional development (a framework 
convention ?) in their submission to the open consultations on 'enhanced 
cooperation'.

Again, where is CS and IGC on this.  These are the crucial global IG 
issues today.

Parminder



Ian Peter wrote:
> Jovan’s article on this is well worth reading
>
> http://deepdip.wordpress.com/2011/01/14/after-the-deluge-internet-governance-in-the-aftermath-of-wikileaks/
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
> *Reply-To: *<governance at lists.cpsr.org>, parminder 
> <parminder at itforchange.net>
> *Date: *Sat, 22 Jan 2011 14:54:22 +0530
> *To: *<governance at lists.cpsr.org>, Adam Peake <ajp at glocom.ac.jp>
> *Subject: *Re: [governance] cross-border IG issues
>
>
>
> Adam Peake wrote:
>
>     This has nothing to do with Internet architecture. The US's
>     demands are based on Twitter being a US registered company,
>     nothing to do with the Internet per se.
>
> I mean the whole socio-technical architecture of the Internet. It is a 
> mistake, at least from its overall governance and socio-political 
> implications points of view, to see the Internet merely as a technical 
> system. My statement is in the context of the larger view of what is 
> Internet governance, and the Internet's socio-political architecture 
> and its power nodes - in the present case, the extra-ordinary control 
> that the US gov has over it relative to any other body.
>
> BTW, this is an interesting discussion. Defining what is the Internet, 
> before we define IG. A narrow definition of IG as basically dealing 
> with Internet's technical architecture as against a broader one 
> signifying a new techno-social system, is behind many a 
> misunderstandings and mis-communications that often arise in 
> discussion on this list.
>
> For instance, when I may underscore the need for new global policy 
> institutions that could ensure greater egalitarianism in Internet's 
> development in terms of its social, economic and political impact, 
> McTim would generally respond by exhorting us to put aside such idle 
> talk and come and participate in places where the 'actual IG' takes 
> place.
>
> Adam, I am completely in disagreement with you that this has nothing 
> to do with Internet per se. For me, and to most people, Internet is 
> also google, facebook, twitter, online forums of resistance and the 
> such... It is not just the IP protocol, DNS, registries and such kind 
> of stuff.
>
> The fact that all the above mega corporates, as well as ICANN itself, 
> are as you say are companies registered in the US is a huge IG issue. 
> I dont want my personal data to be accessed by anyone without my 
> consent. And if exceptional conditions of possible involvement in a 
> crime etc are involved I would have it handled only by a body/ 
> authority  in whose constitution I have a democratic role, which 
> regrettably is not the case with the US gov.
>
> Parminder
>
>
>     FWIW (not worth much :-)) most of Twitter's Internet architecture
>     is run by a Japanese company, NTT.
>      
>     Thanks,
>      
>     Adam
>      
>      
>      
>      
>
>         Read below to see another instance of how some countries are
>         more equal than others owing to the manner in which the global
>         Internet architecture and its power nodes are structured
>         today..... It should hardly be surprising that most 'other'
>         countries are rather concerned about this asymmetry  and
>         concentration of global IG power.  
>          
>         <http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/01/10/3110066.htm?section=justin>http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/01/10/3110066.htm?section=justin
>         <http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/01/10/3110066.htm?section=justin%3Ehttp://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/01/10/3110066.htm?section=justin>
>
>          
>         US pursuit of WikiLeaks triggers diplomatic spat
>         By Jennifer Macey
>          
>         Updated Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:43pm AEDT
>          
>          The US has subpoenaed Twitter to release information from
>         five accounts in its investigation of WikiLeaks (AFP: Joe
>         Raedle/Getty Images)
>          
>         AUDIO: Iceland furious over US subpoena of Twitter accounts (PM)
>         RELATED STORY: US orders Twitter to disclose WikiLeaks records
>         The Icelandic government has summoned the US ambassador to
>         explain why the US is seeking personal information from the
>         Twitter account of an Icelandic MP.
>          
>         The US has subpoenaed Twitter to release information from five
>         accounts - including those of the MP and a Dutch computer
>         programmer - in its investigation of whistleblowing website
>         WikiLeaks.
>          
>         Legal experts say because Twitter is registered in the US, the
>         company may be obliged to hand over the information.
>          
>         The American ambassador to Reykjavik, Luis Arreaga, has been
>         summoned for a meeting at Iceland's foreign ministry.
>          
>         He has been asked to explain why US officials want the Twitter
>         account details of an Icelandic MP.
>          
>         Iceland's interior minister, Ogmundur Jonasson, says the
>         request is not being taken lightly.
>          
>         "It is very serious that a foreign state, the United States,
>         demands such personal information of an Icelandic person, an
>         elected official," he said.
>          
>         "This is even more serious when put into perspective and
>         concerns freedom of speech and people's freedom in general."
>          
>         Icelandic MP Birgitta Jonsdottir is one of five Twitter
>         accounts that have been subpoenaed by the US Justice Department.
>          
>         Although she is a former WikiLeaks collaborator, she denies
>         she has anything to hide.
>          
>         "Not at all, that's not what this is all about. This is about
>         a certain principle," she said.
>          
>         "Here we have a government that is demanding a privately-owned
>         company to give up personal data.
>          
>         "I have not done anything that can be considered criminal.
>         It's not against the law to leak information, it's not against
>         the law to be a source, it's not against the law to publish
>         this information.
>          
>         "The information in question is about crimes committed by the
>         United States government."
>          
>         Along with Ms Jonsdottir, the US Justice Department sought
>         information from four other Twitter accounts.
>          
>         The WikiLeaks account, Dutch computer programmer Rop
>         Gonggrijp, American programmer Jacob Appelbaum, and the
>         account of Private First Class Bradley Manning, the US army
>         intelligence analyst accused of leaking the classified cables,
>          
>         Dr Ben Saul, the director of the Sydney Centre for
>         International Law at Sydney University, says US officials can
>         issue a subpoena against non-US citizens if the company
>         holding that information is registered in the US.
>          
>         "It certainly does seem that the US is exploring all avenues
>         available to it through its domestic law," he said.
>          
>         "Obviously the US itself has no law enforcement power in
>         Europe or in Australia, so what they're obviously trying to do
>         is to obtain the information by going after records held by
>         companies which operate in the US, which are subject to US law.
>          
>         "Citizenship doesn't really matter here. The relevant question
>         is, is there illegal conduct happening?
>          
>         "The real question is how will other countries react, you
>         know, will other governments try to do things to shut down
>         this kind of investigation?"
>          
>         The order issued by the US District Court of Virginia on
>         December 14 gave Twitter three days to release the
>         information, including user names, addresses, connection
>         records, telephone numbers and bank details.
>          
>         ____________________________________________________________
>         You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>              governance at lists.cpsr.org
>         To be removed from the list, visit:
>              http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>          
>         For all other list information and functions, see:
>              http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>         To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>              http://www.igcaucus.org/
>          
>         Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>          
>
>
>     ____________________________________________________________
>     You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>         governance at lists.cpsr.org
>     To be removed from the list, visit:
>         http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>      
>     For all other list information and functions, see:
>         http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>     To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>         http://www.igcaucus.org/
>      
>     Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>      
>      
>
>
> -- 
> PK
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
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>

-- 
PK

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From jeremy at ciroap.org  Sat Jan 22 05:13:15 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 18:13:15 +0800
Subject: [governance] Agenda for the next CSTD WG meeting Fwd: Working
 Group on the improvement to the IGF
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=LWqgWSSbY12PXGFkw5U_fH0p9OVi1eDXrHinQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTik=9cnZ5Obi3YeHM92ijXynFiy2kronqNHjVGcb@mail.gmail.com> <7EC6376A-1F2D-448A-8E5A-B6EE0D532B68@ciroap.org> <AANLkTi=7aDF8iB+fpbJytcHLde4uzY5UcJU-58n58as_@mail.gmail.com> <E0118F02-C840-44C1-A477-8E029D155B52@ciroap.org> <AANLkTi=LWqgWSSbY12PXGFkw5U_fH0p9OVi1eDXrHinQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49717920-12A6-4C31-84C5-5EC9F0DF8BB0@ciroap.org>

On 22/01/2011, at 5:49 PM, Fouad Bajwa wrote:

> I am unable to find a public notification or IGC consensus on having
> such a list run in a closed environment or limiting access to only a
> group?

It's not limited, feel free to join.

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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From fouadbajwa at gmail.com  Sat Jan 22 05:27:25 2011
From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Bajwa)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 15:27:25 +0500
Subject: [governance] Agenda for the next CSTD WG meeting Fwd: Working
 Group on the improvement to the IGF
In-Reply-To: <49717920-12A6-4C31-84C5-5EC9F0DF8BB0@ciroap.org>
References: <AANLkTik=9cnZ5Obi3YeHM92ijXynFiy2kronqNHjVGcb@mail.gmail.com>
	<7EC6376A-1F2D-448A-8E5A-B6EE0D532B68@ciroap.org>
	<AANLkTi=7aDF8iB+fpbJytcHLde4uzY5UcJU-58n58as_@mail.gmail.com>
	<E0118F02-C840-44C1-A477-8E029D155B52@ciroap.org>
	<AANLkTi=LWqgWSSbY12PXGFkw5U_fH0p9OVi1eDXrHinQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<49717920-12A6-4C31-84C5-5EC9F0DF8BB0@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTim8wekog9D_OLyPVkhpu5x4=TkD9kOZMa2s7skj@mail.gmail.com>

Still, there was no need for a separate mailing list IMHO. The
interventions on this list in a seperate topiced list would have even
helped the participants of the open consultation and MAG
meeting..............

-- Foo

On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 3:13 PM, Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org> wrote:
> On 22/01/2011, at 5:49 PM, Fouad Bajwa wrote:
>
>> I am unable to find a public notification or IGC consensus on having
>> such a list run in a closed environment or limiting access to only a
>> group?
>
> It's not limited, feel free to join.
>
> --
> Jeremy Malcolm
> Project Coordinator
> Consumers International
> Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
> Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
> Tel: +60 3 7726 1599
>
> Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers
> CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
> Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
> for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
> http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
> Twitter #CICongress
>
> Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.
>
>



-- 
Regards.
--------------------------
Fouad Bajwa
____________________________________________________________
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From roland at internetpolicyagency.com  Sat Jan 22 05:51:36 2011
From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 10:51:36 +0000
Subject: [governance] cross-border IG issues
In-Reply-To: <4D3AA246.2080207@itforchange.net>
References: <4D3A8824.5040900@itforchange.net>
 <p0624080ac960449f3918@[192.168.1.160]> <4D3AA246.2080207@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <BSsg7fB4arONFA+Y@internetpolicyagency.com>

In message <4D3AA246.2080207 at itforchange.net>, at 14:54:22 on Sat, 22 
Jan 2011, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> writes

>The fact that all the above mega corporates, as well as ICANN itself,

I thought you were trying to avoid discussions which confuse governance 
of the infrastructure with governance of the content.

>are as you say are companies registered in the US is a huge IG issue. I 
>dont want my personal data to be accessed by anyone without my consent. 
>And if exceptional conditions of possible involvement in a crime etc 
>are involved I would have it handled only by a body/ authority  in 
>whose constitution I have a democratic role, which regrettably is not 
>the case with the US gov.

Then it is up to you (and those of a like mind) to "vote with your feet" 
and subscribe to websites run from different jurisdictions. And if you 
don't think they exist, it's not the Internet infrastructure that's 
preventing it.
-- 
Roland Perry
____________________________________________________________
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From jeremy at ciroap.org  Sat Jan 22 06:14:11 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 19:14:11 +0800
Subject: [governance] Draft statement on Nairobi meeting programme
Message-ID: <E09009D3-015C-44D5-9761-F897BF39CE8E@ciroap.org>

Here (and at http://www.igcaucus.org/digress.it) is a statement based on the suggestions for the Nairobi meeting programme.  I have tried to incorporate everything, so if I missed your suggestion please let me know.

Because we generally only put forward three topics, I have not included A2K as a separate theme, but instead have expressly included it in each of the other three themes.

--- begins ---

For the Nairobi 2011 meeting of the IGF, the Internet Governance Caucus suggests the following main session themes:

1. Open Wired and Mobile Internet

Open Internet describes an ideal in which the openness of the Internet to the broadest possible range of commercial and non-commercial content, applications and services is maintained.  An open Internet is one that supports development, promotes Access to Knowledge, and resists perpetuating the power of old media and telecommunications empires on the new network.

With the explosion of Internet usage in the developing world mainly occurring on mobile networks, it is particularly important to consider how the ideal of open Internet will apply in the mobile space.  Should different rules apply for mobile and wired Internet networks?  If so, how can communications rights and Access to Knowledge be preserved for those users, in order to avoid an ongoing information divide?

In proposing this topic for the Nairobi IGF, we want to particularly ensure that it does not shy away from areas of disagreement.  Only by including panelists with divergent views on this topic can the very real and practical Internet governance disputes in this area be adequately and productively aired.

2. Cross border Issues

One of the oldest and thorniest issues for Internet governance concerns the cross-border effects of national laws, policies, enforcement practices, and the actions of intermediaries, on those who have had no representation in the making of those laws, policies, etc.  Current examples include actions taken by governments and intermediaries against Wikileaks, and the "seizure" of domain names alleged to be connected with content piracy.

The process towards enhanced cooperation on Internet policy issues could lead to new proposals that would address some of these cross-border anomalies and deficits.  But at this stage of that process, there is little shared understanding of the approach that should be taken.  This session will look at the philosophical underpinnings and foundations that need to emerge in a world where something like the Internet transcends boundaries and national jurisdictions.  Insights produced through this session may feed into the enhanced coperation process.

Once again, it will be important for discussion of this topic to involve stakeholders with diverging views, discussing concrete issues that demand eventual resolution.

3. Development agenda for Internet governance

Internet governance is not a neutral activity. All Internet governance decisions have implications for development, though in some cases these implications may be less obvious than in others, and they are easily overlooked.

An example is the way in which decisions about such diverse issues as new global top level domains (gTLDs), Unicode, IP enforcement, filtering and censorship, may have an adverse and sometimes unforeseen impact on Access to Knowledge in the developing world.

We propose a main session theme on developing a development agenda for Internet governance, building on the similar session in Vilnius.  This session will help to draw out areas of Internet governance which have significant impacts on development, and to suggest how development concerns can be mainstreamed in Internet governance institutions that have responsibility in these areas.

--- ends ---

If you want to make paragraph-level comments, you can do so on the list or you can do so at http://www.igcaucus.org/digress.it, our Web-based tool which allows for threaded comments on each individual paragraph.  I will summarise back here at the end.

In other news... you may now edit your profile at http://www.igcaucus.org to include additional optional fields - previously those who tried to do this received an "LDAP error".  Other than this, I don't have any more new progress to report on the Web site yet.
-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.

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From roland at internetpolicyagency.com  Sat Jan 22 06:07:00 2011
From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 11:07:00 +0000
Subject: [governance] Agenda for the next CSTD WG meeting Fwd: Working
 Group on the improvement to the IGF
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik=9cnZ5Obi3YeHM92ijXynFiy2kronqNHjVGcb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTik=9cnZ5Obi3YeHM92ijXynFiy2kronqNHjVGcb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <JSniLxCUprONFAfT@internetpolicyagency.com>

In message 
<AANLkTik=9cnZ5Obi3YeHM92ijXynFiy2kronqNHjVGcb at mail.gmail.com>, at 
23:14:57 on Fri, 21 Jan 2011, Marilia Maciel <mariliamaciel at gmail.com> 
writes, quoting CSTD Secretariat:

 >[CSTD](1) a letter informing you about the next meeting of the group, 
 >scheduled to take place in Montreux, Switzerland from 25-26 February

Putting on my "travel agent" hat, be aware that Montreaux is some 80km 
from Geneva, about an hour by train.

 >[CSTD] With respect to the five representatives from intergovernmental 
 >organizations, requests have been received from ITU, UNDESA, UNESCO, 
 >UNDP, WIPO, UNECA, UNESCWA, and the Council of Europe.

It's useful to have this long-running issue clarified (ie this category 
is not "International Organisations", like ICANN).

 >[CSTD] I take this opportunity to inform you that we have received the 
 >final lists of the 5 representatives from each of the stakeholder 
 >groups: Business Community, civil society, and technical and academic 
 >community.

It'll be interesting to see who has been nominated from all these 
groups, and how much overlap there is with the MAG, whose earlier work 
is to some extent being reviewed here.

 > [Timeline para 6]: The first meeting will be an opportunity for the
 > Working Group to comment on the first draft report and discuss its
 > content.

I hope that we will be able to see rather more of this first draft than 
just the nine paragraph titles, before the meeting; if we are to 
comment.

-- 
Roland Perry
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From roland at internetpolicyagency.com  Sat Jan 22 06:28:46 2011
From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 11:28:46 +0000
Subject: [governance] Agenda for the next CSTD WG meeting Fwd: Working
 Group on the improvement to the IGF
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim8wekog9D_OLyPVkhpu5x4=TkD9kOZMa2s7skj@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTik=9cnZ5Obi3YeHM92ijXynFiy2kronqNHjVGcb@mail.gmail.com>
 <7EC6376A-1F2D-448A-8E5A-B6EE0D532B68@ciroap.org>
 <AANLkTi=7aDF8iB+fpbJytcHLde4uzY5UcJU-58n58as_@mail.gmail.com>
 <E0118F02-C840-44C1-A477-8E029D155B52@ciroap.org>
 <AANLkTi=LWqgWSSbY12PXGFkw5U_fH0p9OVi1eDXrHinQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <49717920-12A6-4C31-84C5-5EC9F0DF8BB0@ciroap.org>
 <AANLkTim8wekog9D_OLyPVkhpu5x4=TkD9kOZMa2s7skj@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Qz50jGGu9rONFAeX@internetpolicyagency.com>

In message 
<AANLkTim8wekog9D_OLyPVkhpu5x4=TkD9kOZMa2s7skj at mail.gmail.com>, at 
15:27:25 on Sat, 22 Jan 2011, Fouad Bajwa <fouadbajwa at gmail.com> writes
>Still, there was no need for a separate mailing list IMHO.

There's a "Law of social networking" (of which the IGC lists are an 
example, and social networking has existed for at least 20 years before 
acquiring that sexy name) which says that if you spin off a separate 
discussion group it almost always dies. That's just a fact of life. Look 
at the [lack of] activity on the other three spun-off groups, for 
example.

It requires a big commitment to make it work, which is one reason why 
small *closed* lists are the most successful - the people who want to 
discuss their business in private are demonstrating that commitment (to 
keeping their discussion closed).
-- 
Roland Perry
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de  Sat Jan 22 06:30:10 2011
From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang=22?=)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 12:30:10 +0100
Subject: AW: [governance] cross-border IG issues
References: <C960EFA4.1587D%ian.peter@ianpeter.com>
 <4D3AA947.8090608@itforchange.net>
Message-ID:  <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8A076FC@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>

Parminder: 
 
IBSA (India, S Africa and Brazil) countries (as also my own organization) did call for such a possible new global institutional development (a framework convention ?) in their submission to the open consultations on 'enhanced cooperation'.

Wolfgang:
 
If you read the IBSA proposal carefully you will discover that this is different from previous proposals for an intergovernmental body. The proposal says very carefully that there is a gap or missing link in the existing architecture of Internet Governance organisations. The proposed intergovernmental body should fill this gap not in a way to substitute exising mechanisms but enhancing the existing mechnisms. With other words, it is about "enhancement", not about "subordination" or "substitution" or "oversight" or "replacement" or "takeover".  And this is an important difference. The Chinese MAG member proposed in the IGF Consultations in 2009 to substitute the multistakeholder dialogue by an intergovernmental negotiation process to move towards an intergovernmental (oversight) body. The ISBA proposal is rather different. This is rather similar to what is considered by the Council of Europe (CoE). What we discuss in the CeO Cross Border Internet Expert Group is that we recognize the need to specifiy the "respective role" of governments in Internet Governance but in a way that this intergovernmental component should be embedded into a multistakeholder framework of commitments. The objective is not to create a new hierachiy for top down policy and decision  making, the objective is to create an enhanced network where stakeholders can "enhance" their communication, coordination and collaboration both among themselves and and with other stakeholders. 

____________________________________________________________
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From fouadbajwa at gmail.com  Sat Jan 22 06:42:18 2011
From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Bajwa)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 16:42:18 +0500
Subject: [governance] Agenda for the next CSTD WG meeting Fwd: Working
 Group on the improvement to the IGF
In-Reply-To: <Qz50jGGu9rONFAeX@internetpolicyagency.com>
References: <AANLkTik=9cnZ5Obi3YeHM92ijXynFiy2kronqNHjVGcb@mail.gmail.com>
	<7EC6376A-1F2D-448A-8E5A-B6EE0D532B68@ciroap.org>
	<AANLkTi=7aDF8iB+fpbJytcHLde4uzY5UcJU-58n58as_@mail.gmail.com>
	<E0118F02-C840-44C1-A477-8E029D155B52@ciroap.org>
	<AANLkTi=LWqgWSSbY12PXGFkw5U_fH0p9OVi1eDXrHinQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<49717920-12A6-4C31-84C5-5EC9F0DF8BB0@ciroap.org>
	<AANLkTim8wekog9D_OLyPVkhpu5x4=TkD9kOZMa2s7skj@mail.gmail.com>
	<Qz50jGGu9rONFAeX@internetpolicyagency.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTine7mH6vsLs_z5sf9PZv=tiJbRLW5uZhvuZYrp6@mail.gmail.com>

Still, a separate list doesn't make sense............it takes a lot
for many to follow just this one from the developing part of the
world.........I like the interpretation for small lists and
productivity but it doesn't answer the need for openness and
accessibility.

-- Foo

On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 4:28 PM, Roland Perry
<roland at internetpolicyagency.com> wrote:
> In message <AANLkTim8wekog9D_OLyPVkhpu5x4=TkD9kOZMa2s7skj at mail.gmail.com>,
> at 15:27:25 on Sat, 22 Jan 2011, Fouad Bajwa <fouadbajwa at gmail.com> writes
>>
>> Still, there was no need for a separate mailing list IMHO.
>
> There's a "Law of social networking" (of which the IGC lists are an example,
> and social networking has existed for at least 20 years before acquiring
> that sexy name) which says that if you spin off a separate discussion group
> it almost always dies. That's just a fact of life. Look at the [lack of]
> activity on the other three spun-off groups, for example.
>
> It requires a big commitment to make it work, which is one reason why small
> *closed* lists are the most successful - the people who want to discuss
> their business in private are demonstrating that commitment (to keeping
> their discussion closed).
> --
> Roland Perry
> ____________________________________________________________
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-- 
Regards.
--------------------------
Fouad Bajwa
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From roland at internetpolicyagency.com  Sat Jan 22 06:56:26 2011
From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 11:56:26 +0000
Subject: [governance] Draft statement on Nairobi meeting programme
In-Reply-To: <E09009D3-015C-44D5-9761-F897BF39CE8E@ciroap.org>
References: <E09009D3-015C-44D5-9761-F897BF39CE8E@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <s04LyeHqXsONFAp9@internetpolicyagency.com>

In message <E09009D3-015C-44D5-9761-F897BF39CE8E at ciroap.org>, at 
19:14:11 on Sat, 22 Jan 2011, Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org> writes

>Should different rules apply for mobile and wired Internet networks? 
> If so, how can communications rights and Access to Knowledge be 
>preserved for those users, in order to avoid an ongoing information 
>divide

I recall debates (in the UK) about fifteen years ago where the theme was 
wanting "freephone" or "800" access to ISP modem banks on the grounds 
that paying around five dollars[1] an hour for a regular phone call was 
some kind of infringement of a right to free expression.

No-one was able to explain how the dial-up telephone infrastructure 
which is required to support [what eventually became at some times of 
day the biggest user of the telephone network] was to be paid for.

Eventually a compromise of paying at "local call" cost of perhaps 2 
cents a minute, despite the calls often being long distance, was arrived 
at. Then ten years ago cable and ADSL happened, and people forgot the 
charging aspects of dial-up Internet, along with forgetting the 
restricted bandwidth.

Now history is repeating itself with 3G data (very few people even 
expected to use 2/2.5G data for more than email). Carriers who 
over-generously offered "unlimited" plans of perhaps one to three 
Gigabytes a month for thirty dollars (which includes handset rental and 
voice calls) find their networks choked by people downloading streaming 
video, and try to invoke caps [limits] typically in the region of half a 
Gigabyte a month. Which would be several year's worth of email, even for 
a prolific user such as myself.

For those using 3G 'dongles' rather than phones, a cost of around 
fifteen dollars per Gigabyte is typical (there are no "unlimited" plans 
that I'm aware of). But that's a lot of money to watch a movie (one 
Gigabyte is a quarter of a DVD), when it's been estimated that 
mainstream ADSL costs the ISPs about 20 cents per hour for TV-quality 
movies.

So this is not about Network Neutrality, but "Local Loop neutrality", 
where end users are in denial about the varying costs of telecoms 
provision *of that last mile*, be it by GSM, ADSL or whatever. The 
previous thousand miles will cost much the same irrespective of the 
technology of the local loop.

If your network delivers content mainly to mobile users, it makes sense 
to try to gather some of the necessary extra revenue at the inbound edge 
(and leave the publisher to offset that by the income generation in his 
own business plan), rather than handing out an indefinite "free lunch".

Of course, if users are happy to express their freedom in ways other 
than downloading movies all day, there isn't a problem.

[1] I use USA money as it's more recognisable.
-- 
Roland Perry
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From fouadbajwa at gmail.com  Sat Jan 22 06:57:35 2011
From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Bajwa)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 16:57:35 +0500
Subject: [governance] Draft statement on Nairobi meeting programme
In-Reply-To: <E09009D3-015C-44D5-9761-F897BF39CE8E@ciroap.org>
References: <E09009D3-015C-44D5-9761-F897BF39CE8E@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikEd6XKtr+vtSzkFKAMX-qJUP_i9BkvnqmsQ56L@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jeremy,

Can we include Emerging Issues and suggest Wikileaks and the state of
the Internet Governance after Wikileaks or something around this
issue? Around would mean the Tunisia case.

On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 4:14 PM, Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org> wrote:
> Here (and at http://www.igcaucus.org/digress.it) is a statement based on the
> suggestions for the Nairobi meeting programme.  I have tried to incorporate
> everything, so if I missed your suggestion please let me know.
> Because we generally only put forward three topics, I have not included A2K
> as a separate theme, but instead have expressly included it in each of the
> other three themes.
> --- begins ---
> For the Nairobi 2011 meeting of the IGF, the Internet Governance Caucus
> suggests the following main session themes:
> 1. Open Wired and Mobile Internet
> Open Internet describes an ideal in which the openness of the Internet to
> the broadest possible range of commercial and non-commercial content,
> applications and services is maintained.  An open Internet is one that
> supports development, promotes Access to Knowledge, and resists perpetuating
> the power of old media and telecommunications empires on the new network.
> With the explosion of Internet usage in the developing world mainly
> occurring on mobile networks, it is particularly important to consider how
> the ideal of open Internet will apply in the mobile space.  Should different
> rules apply for mobile and wired Internet networks?  If so, how can
> communications rights and Access to Knowledge be preserved for those users,
> in order to avoid an ongoing information divide?
> In proposing this topic for the Nairobi IGF, we want to particularly ensure
> that it does not shy away from areas of disagreement.  Only by including
> panelists with divergent views on this topic can the very real and practical
> Internet governance disputes in this area be adequately and productively
> aired.
>
> 2. Cross border Issues
> One of the oldest and thorniest issues for Internet governance concerns the
> cross-border effects of national laws, policies, enforcement practices, and
> the actions of intermediaries, on those who have had no representation in
> the making of those laws, policies, etc.  Current examples include actions
> taken by governments and intermediaries against Wikileaks, and the "seizure"
> of domain names alleged to be connected with content piracy.
> The process towards enhanced cooperation on Internet policy issues could
> lead to new proposals that would address some of these cross-border
> anomalies and deficits.  But at this stage of that process, there is little
> shared understanding of the approach that should be taken.  This session
> will look at the philosophical underpinnings and foundations that need to
> emerge in a world where something like the Internet transcends boundaries
> and national jurisdictions.  Insights produced through this session may feed
> into the enhanced coperation process.
> Once again, it will be important for discussion of this topic to involve
> stakeholders with diverging views, discussing concrete issues that demand
> eventual resolution.
> 3. Development agenda for Internet governance
> Internet governance is not a neutral activity. All Internet governance
> decisions have implications for development, though in some cases these
> implications may be less obvious than in others, and they are easily
> overlooked.
> An example is the way in which decisions about such diverse issues as new
> global top level domains (gTLDs), Unicode, IP enforcement, filtering and
> censorship, may have an adverse and sometimes unforeseen impact on Access to
> Knowledge in the developing world.
> We propose a main session theme on developing a development agenda for
> Internet governance, building on the similar session in Vilnius.  This
> session will help to draw out areas of Internet governance which have
> significant impacts on development, and to suggest how development concerns
> can be mainstreamed in Internet governance institutions that have
> responsibility in these areas.
> --- ends ---
> If you want to make paragraph-level comments, you can do so on the list or
> you can do so at http://www.igcaucus.org/digress.it, our Web-based tool
> which allows for threaded comments on each individual paragraph.  I will
> summarise back here at the end.
> In other news... you may now edit your profile at http://www.igcaucus.org to
> include additional optional fields - previously those who tried to do this
> received an "LDAP error".  Other than this, I don't have any more new
> progress to report on the Web site yet.
>
> --
>
> Jeremy Malcolm
> Project Coordinator
> Consumers International
> Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
> Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
> Malaysia
> Tel: +60 3 7726 1599
>
> Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers
> CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
> Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer
> groups from around the world
> for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to
> consumers. Register now!
> http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
> Twitter #CICongress
> Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless
> necessary.
>
> ____________________________________________________________
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>     http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>



-- 
Regards.
--------------------------
Fouad Bajwa
____________________________________________________________
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From parminder at itforchange.net  Sat Jan 22 06:58:39 2011
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 17:28:39 +0530
Subject: AW: [governance] cross-border IG issues
In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8A076FC@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
References: <C960EFA4.1587D%ian.peter@ianpeter.com> <4D3AA947.8090608@itforchange.net> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8A076FC@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
Message-ID: <4D3AC66F.80009@itforchange.net>

Wolfgang,

I have read the IBSA statement rather carefully. In fact, let me humbly 
submit that IBSA statement does have important overlaps with IT for 
Change's statement and does draw some inspiration from it, a fact that 
was graciously acknowledged by the authors of the IBSA statement. These 
overlaps are in terms of call for a possible new institutional 
structure, listing of global network neutrality and A2K as key global IG 
issues and call for setting up a CSTD WG on this matter.

Sorry to say but you are completely mistaken  when you say "...the 
objective is to create an enhanced network where stakeholders can 
"enhance" their communication, coordination and collaboration both among 
themselves and and with other stakeholders. " which statement represents 
the general tenor of what you make out the IBSA statement to be.

Yes, IBSA statement does keep a number of options over, but it is very 
clear that 'enhanced cooperation' process has not started yet and thus 
must start at the earliest. What you speak of above are obviously 
ongoing processes. Though, our position is not exactly that of IBSA in 
the below regard, I must quote some passages from the IBSA statement to 
show how clearly have you mis-read it.

          "  Unfortunately, these issues are yet to be discussed among
    UN Member States in depth from a public policy point of view due to
    the absence of an intergovernmental platform mandated to
    systematically discuss them and make decisions as appropriate. It is
    thus necessary for governments to be provided a formal platform
    under the U.N that is mandated to discuss these issues. Such a
    platform would also complement the Internet Governance Forum, a
    multi-stakeholder forum  for discussing, sharing experiences and
    networking on Internet governance."

    " The IBSA believes that this platform once identified and
    established will allow the international community to accomplish the
    developmental objectives of the Tunis Agenda,...."

Further more, about the proposed CSTD WG on enhanced cooperation....

       "The Working Group should also take on board inputs from all
    international organizations including the ITU, and should recommend
    on the feasibility and desirability of placing the Enhanced
    Cooperation mechanism within an existing international organization
    or recommend establishing a new body for dealing with Enhanced
    Cooperation, along with a clear roadmap and timeframe for the process."

Obviously this is noway like your description of the IBSA statement as

"...to create an enhanced network where stakeholders can "enhance" their 
communication, coordination and collaboration both among themselves and 
and with other stakeholders. "

However I am very eager to hear you argue why you think that this is all 
what they really meant.

Parminder




 
Kleinwächter, Wolfgang wrote:
> Parminder: 
>  
> IBSA (India, S Africa and Brazil) countries (as also my own organization) did call for such a possible new global institutional development (a framework convention ?) in their submission to the open consultations on 'enhanced cooperation'.
>
> Wolfgang:
>  
> If you read the IBSA proposal carefully you will discover that this is different from previous proposals for an intergovernmental body. The proposal says very carefully that there is a gap or missing link in the existing architecture of Internet Governance organisations. The proposed intergovernmental body should fill this gap not in a way to substitute exising mechanisms but enhancing the existing mechnisms. With other words, it is about "enhancement", not about "subordination" or "substitution" or "oversight" or "replacement" or "takeover".  And this is an important difference. The Chinese MAG member proposed in the IGF Consultations in 2009 to substitute the multistakeholder dialogue by an intergovernmental negotiation process to move towards an intergovernmental (oversight) body. The ISBA proposal is rather different. This is rather similar to what is considered by the Council of Europe (CoE). What we discuss in the CeO Cross Border Internet Expert Group is that we recognize the need to specifiy the "respective role" of governments in Internet Governance but in a way that this intergovernmental component should be embedded into a multistakeholder framework of commitments. The objective is not to create a new hierachiy for top down policy and decision  making, the objective is to create an enhanced network where stakeholders can "enhance" their communication, coordination and collaboration both among themselves and and with other stakeholders. 
>
> ____________________________________________________________
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>
>   

-- 
PK

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From parminder at itforchange.net  Sat Jan 22 07:13:35 2011
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 17:43:35 +0530
Subject: [governance] Draft statement on Nairobi meeting programme
In-Reply-To: <s04LyeHqXsONFAp9@internetpolicyagency.com>
References: <E09009D3-015C-44D5-9761-F897BF39CE8E@ciroap.org> <s04LyeHqXsONFAp9@internetpolicyagency.com>
Message-ID: <4D3AC9EF.3030200@itforchange.net>

"If your network delivers content mainly to mobile users, it makes sense 
to try to gather some of the necessary extra revenue at the inbound edge 
(and leave the publisher to offset that by the income generation in his 
own business plan), rather than handing out an indefinite "free lunch". "

Pay-for-priority distorts the very nature of the Internet, and over time 
the Internet will just not look the same. (Charging different fees for 
download volumes is a very different thing. ) It changes the level 
playing field nature of this new and revolutionary communication 
paradigm of the Internet. It thus impacts freedom of expression, 
economic competitiveness for new players, and egalitarian possibilities 
that Internet offer. A simple cost-profit and economic feasibility 
framework is not the best way to understand the implications of the NN 
issue, as it is not for media and other constructions of the public 
sphere, and as it not for many other social and cultural issues. Happy 
to discuss this issue further - quite close to my heart.

parminder

Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <E09009D3-015C-44D5-9761-F897BF39CE8E at ciroap.org>, at 
> 19:14:11 on Sat, 22 Jan 2011, Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org> writes
>
>> Should different rules apply for mobile and wired Internet networks? 
>>  If so, how can communications rights and Access to Knowledge be 
>> preserved for those users, in order to avoid an ongoing information 
>> divide
>
> I recall debates (in the UK) about fifteen years ago where the theme 
> was wanting "freephone" or "800" access to ISP modem banks on the 
> grounds that paying around five dollars[1] an hour for a regular phone 
> call was some kind of infringement of a right to free expression.
>
> No-one was able to explain how the dial-up telephone infrastructure 
> which is required to support [what eventually became at some times of 
> day the biggest user of the telephone network] was to be paid for.
>
> Eventually a compromise of paying at "local call" cost of perhaps 2 
> cents a minute, despite the calls often being long distance, was 
> arrived at. Then ten years ago cable and ADSL happened, and people 
> forgot the charging aspects of dial-up Internet, along with forgetting 
> the restricted bandwidth.
>
> Now history is repeating itself with 3G data (very few people even 
> expected to use 2/2.5G data for more than email). Carriers who 
> over-generously offered "unlimited" plans of perhaps one to three 
> Gigabytes a month for thirty dollars (which includes handset rental 
> and voice calls) find their networks choked by people downloading 
> streaming video, and try to invoke caps [limits] typically in the 
> region of half a Gigabyte a month. Which would be several year's worth 
> of email, even for a prolific user such as myself.
>
> For those using 3G 'dongles' rather than phones, a cost of around 
> fifteen dollars per Gigabyte is typical (there are no "unlimited" 
> plans that I'm aware of). But that's a lot of money to watch a movie 
> (one Gigabyte is a quarter of a DVD), when it's been estimated that 
> mainstream ADSL costs the ISPs about 20 cents per hour for TV-quality 
> movies.
>
> So this is not about Network Neutrality, but "Local Loop neutrality", 
> where end users are in denial about the varying costs of telecoms 
> provision *of that last mile*, be it by GSM, ADSL or whatever. The 
> previous thousand miles will cost much the same irrespective of the 
> technology of the local loop.
>
> If your network delivers content mainly to mobile users, it makes 
> sense to try to gather some of the necessary extra revenue at the 
> inbound edge (and leave the publisher to offset that by the income 
> generation in his own business plan), rather than handing out an 
> indefinite "free lunch".
>
> Of course, if users are happy to express their freedom in ways other 
> than downloading movies all day, there isn't a problem.
>
> [1] I use USA money as it's more recognisable.

-- 
PK

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From parminder at itforchange.net  Sat Jan 22 08:04:53 2011
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 18:34:53 +0530
Subject: [governance] cross-border IG issues
In-Reply-To: <BSsg7fB4arONFA+Y@internetpolicyagency.com>
References: <4D3A8824.5040900@itforchange.net> <p0624080ac960449f3918@[192.168.1.160]> <4D3AA246.2080207@itforchange.net> <BSsg7fB4arONFA+Y@internetpolicyagency.com>
Message-ID: <4D3AD5F5.90707@itforchange.net>

Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <4D3AA246.2080207 at itforchange.net>, at 14:54:22 on Sat, 22 
> Jan 2011, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> writes
>
>> The fact that all the above mega corporates, as well as ICANN itself,
>
> I thought you were trying to avoid discussions which confuse 
> governance of the infrastructure with governance of the content.
>
>> are as you say are companies registered in the US is a huge IG issue. 
>> I dont want my personal data to be accessed by anyone without my 
>> consent. And if exceptional conditions of possible involvement in a 
>> crime etc are involved I would have it handled only by a body/ 
>> authority  in whose constitution I have a democratic role, which 
>> regrettably is not the case with the US gov.
>
> Then it is up to you (and those of a like mind) to "vote with your 
> feet" and subscribe to websites run from different jurisdictions. And 
> if you don't think they exist, it's not the Internet infrastructure 
> that's preventing it.
What do you think is preventing it?

If your response to cross border issues I bring up is to advice cutting 
back to an Internet (or Internets) that fits jurisdictional boundaries, 
it is indeed an internally coherent solution. However, I still think 
that it is possible to preserve a global Internet if we can muster 
enough political  will and courage to develop the necessary global 
political system.

parminder





-- 
PK

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From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de  Sat Jan 22 08:54:31 2011
From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang=22?=)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 14:54:31 +0100
Subject: AW: AW: [governance] cross-border IG issues
References: <C960EFA4.1587D%ian.peter@ianpeter.com>
 <4D3AA947.8090608@itforchange.net>
 <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8A076FC@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
 <4D3AC66F.80009@itforchange.net>
Message-ID:  <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8A076FE@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>

Hi Parminder
 
like all diplomatic documents you can read them in different ways. The authors say that such an (intergovernmental) mechanism would "complement" the IGF, not "sbstitute" the IGF. With other words, we have a multistkaeholder mechanism and part of this - as a key element in such a multiplayer multilayer mechanism -you have an intergovernmental body which has a special responsibility for development and public policy issues (like other ülayers in the mechanism have a special responsibility for other elements of the whoe diversified and decentrlized mechanism).
 
Remember the Internet Governance definition adopted by the Head of states of all UN members said that the stakeholder operate "in their respective roles" and should share "principles, norms, rules, decision making procedures". I read this that we have to deal with two layers: Each stakeholder group has its own responsibility (and has its own institutional mechanism). Governments have their intergovernmental organisations like the GAC, ITU,  UN and probably something which will deal with the new Internet related challenges. Other stakeholders have their mechanism (like the private sector has ICANN, IETF, RIRs and probably also new bodies if this is needed). On the upper layer the various stakeholders have to "share decision making" by takling into account the "respective role". 
 
In practice this means that means that governments are certainly better qualified in a multistakeholder mechanism to contribute to the management of public policy issues while non-governmental technical bodies are better qualified to deal with the technical issues. However all stakeholder groups should have in their "inner life" open, transparent and democratic procedures and have also channels for participation of the other stakeholders. 
 
Wolfgang 

________________________________

Von: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org im Auftrag von parminder
Gesendet: Sa 22.01.2011 12:58
An: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Kleinwächter, Wolfgang
Cc: Ian Peter
Betreff: Re: AW: [governance] cross-border IG issues


Wolfgang,

I have read the IBSA statement rather carefully. In fact, let me humbly submit that IBSA statement does have important overlaps with IT for Change's statement and does draw some inspiration from it, a fact that was graciously acknowledged by the authors of the IBSA statement. These overlaps are in terms of call for a possible new institutional structure, listing of global network neutrality and A2K as key global IG issues and call for setting up a CSTD WG on this matter. 

Sorry to say but you are completely mistaken  when you say "...the objective is to create an enhanced network where stakeholders can "enhance" their communication, coordination and collaboration both among themselves and and with other stakeholders. " which statement represents the general tenor of what you make out the IBSA statement to be.

Yes, IBSA statement does keep a number of options over, but it is very clear that 'enhanced cooperation' process has not started yet and thus must start at the earliest. What you speak of above are obviously ongoing processes. Though, our position is not exactly that of IBSA in the below regard, I must quote some passages from the IBSA statement to show how clearly have you mis-read it.



	      "  Unfortunately, these issues are yet to be discussed among UN Member States in depth from a public policy point of view due to the absence of an intergovernmental platform mandated to systematically discuss them and make decisions as appropriate. It is thus necessary for governments to be provided a formal platform under the U.N that is mandated to discuss these issues. Such a platform would also complement the Internet Governance Forum, a multi-stakeholder forum  for discussing, sharing experiences and networking on Internet governance."
	

	" The IBSA believes that this platform once identified and established will allow the international community to accomplish the developmental objectives of the Tunis Agenda,...."
	
	

Further more, about the proposed CSTD WG on enhanced cooperation....



	   "The Working Group should also take on board inputs from all international organizations including the ITU, and should recommend on the feasibility and desirability of placing the Enhanced Cooperation mechanism within an existing international organization or recommend establishing a new body for dealing with Enhanced Cooperation, along with a clear roadmap and timeframe for the process."
	

Obviously this is noway like your description of the IBSA statement as

"...to create an enhanced network where stakeholders can "enhance" their communication, coordination and collaboration both among themselves and and with other stakeholders. "

However I am very eager to hear you argue why you think that this is all what they really meant.

Parminder




 
Kleinwächter, Wolfgang wrote: 

	Parminder: 
	 
	IBSA (India, S Africa and Brazil) countries (as also my own organization) did call for such a possible new global institutional development (a framework convention ?) in their submission to the open consultations on 'enhanced cooperation'.
	
	Wolfgang:
	 
	If you read the IBSA proposal carefully you will discover that this is different from previous proposals for an intergovernmental body. The proposal says very carefully that there is a gap or missing link in the existing architecture of Internet Governance organisations. The proposed intergovernmental body should fill this gap not in a way to substitute exising mechanisms but enhancing the existing mechnisms. With other words, it is about "enhancement", not about "subordination" or "substitution" or "oversight" or "replacement" or "takeover".  And this is an important difference. The Chinese MAG member proposed in the IGF Consultations in 2009 to substitute the multistakeholder dialogue by an intergovernmental negotiation process to move towards an intergovernmental (oversight) body. The ISBA proposal is rather different. This is rather similar to what is considered by the Council of Europe (CoE). What we discuss in the CeO Cross Border Internet Expert Group is that we recogn
	ize the need to specifiy the "respective role" of governments in Internet Governance but in a way that this intergovernmental component should be embedded into a multistakeholder framework of commitments. The objective is not to create a new hierachiy for top down policy and decision  making, the objective is to create an enhanced network where stakeholders can "enhance" their communication, coordination and collaboration both among themselves and and with other stakeholders. 
	
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-- 
PK
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From ajp at glocom.ac.jp  Sat Jan 22 09:51:28 2011
From: ajp at glocom.ac.jp (Adam Peake)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 23:51:28 +0900
Subject: AW: [governance] cross-border IG issues
In-Reply-To: <4D3AC66F.80009@itforchange.net>
References: <C960EFA4.1587D%ian.peter@ianpeter.com>
 <4D3AA947.8090608@itforchange.net>
 <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8A076FC@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
 <4D3AC66F.80009@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <p0624081ac9607e42bba8@[192.168.1.160]>

Parminder,

Thanks for clarifying what you meant about 
architecture of the Internet.  As I said, the 
Twitter matter you mentioned has nothing to do 
with the Internet in and of itself, you keep 
confusing issues of content and infrastructure. 
Can't help you, it's been going on for years, so 
let's just forget it.

About the IBSA statement, I hope you and IT for 
Change had no part in drafting or encouraging 
paragraph 8 of the statement:

"8. Keeping in view the urgency and importance of 
establishing such a platform, the IBSA countries 
reiterate the need to ensure that the present 
consultations result in a clear roadmap for 
operationalizing Enhanced Cooperation.  In this 
context, we would like to propose that an 
inter-governmental working group be established 
under the UN Commission on Science and Technology 
for Development (CSTD), the focal point in the UN 
system-wide follow-up to the outcomes of WSIS. 
The Working Group should be mandated to prepare a 
report on the possible institutional design and 
roadmap for enhanced cooperation in consultation 
with all stakeholders, and asked to submit its 
report to the UN General Assembly in 2011.  The 
Working Group should also take on board inputs 
from all international organizations including 
the ITU, and should recommend on the feasibility 
and desirability of placing the Enhanced 
Cooperation mechanism within an existing 
international organization or recommend 
establishing a new body for dealing with Enhanced 
Cooperation, along with a clear roadmap and 
timeframe for the process."

It would be ironic given that the IGC's 
nominating committee recommended you as a member 
of the *multistakeholder* working group rather 
than the inter-governmental process the IBSA 
statement suggested. Perhaps you could clarify, 
did you support or accept para 8 of the IBSA 
statement?

I read the IBSA statement as extremely 
detrimental to the Internet (broadly) and the 
interests of civil society and other 
non-governmental stakeholders. Given the list of 
policy issues in the paragraph that precedes it, 
para 6 extremely troubling. Just don't know what 
there is to like about a proposal that only 
favors narrow government interests.

Adam



>Wolfgang,
>
>I have read the IBSA statement rather carefully. 
>In fact, let me humbly submit that IBSA 
>statement does have important overlaps with IT 
>for Change's statement and does draw some 
>inspiration from it, a fact that was graciously 
>acknowledged by the authors of the IBSA 
>statement. These overlaps are in terms of call 
>for a possible new institutional structure, 
>listing of global network neutrality and A2K as 
>key global IG issues and call for setting up a 
>CSTD WG on this matter.
>
>Sorry to say but you are completely mistaken 
>when you say "...the objective is to create an 
>enhanced network where stakeholders can 
>"enhance" their communication, coordination and 
>collaboration both among themselves and and with 
>other stakeholders. " which statement represents 
>the general tenor of what you make out the IBSA 
>statement to be.
>
>Yes, IBSA statement does keep a number of 
>options over, but it is very clear that 
>'enhanced cooperation' process has not started 
>yet and thus must start at the earliest. What 
>you speak of above are obviously ongoing 
>processes. Though, our position is not exactly 
>that of IBSA in the below regard, I must quote 
>some passages from the IBSA statement to show 
>how clearly have you mis-read it.
>
>       "  Unfortunately, these issues are yet to 
>be discussed among UN Member States in depth 
>from a public policy point of view due to the 
>absence of an intergovernmental platform 
>mandated to systematically discuss them and make 
>decisions as appropriate. It is thus necessary 
>for governments to be provided a formal platform 
>under the U.N that is mandated to discuss these 
>issues. Such a platform would also complement 
>the Internet Governance Forum, a 
>multi-stakeholder forum  for discussing, sharing 
>experiences and networking on Internet 
>governance."
>
>" The IBSA believes that this platform once 
>identified and established will allow the 
>international community to accomplish the 
>developmental objectives of the Tunis 
>Agenda,...."
>
>Further more, about the proposed CSTD WG on enhanced cooperation....
>
>    "The Working Group should also take on board 
>inputs from all international organizations 
>including the ITU, and should recommend on the 
>feasibility and desirability of placing the 
>Enhanced Cooperation mechanism within an 
>existing international organization or recommend 
>establishing a new body for dealing with 
>Enhanced Cooperation, along with a clear roadmap 
>and timeframe for the process."
>
>Obviously this is noway like your description of the IBSA statement as
>
>"...to create an enhanced network where 
>stakeholders can "enhance" their communication, 
>coordination and collaboration both among 
>themselves and and with other stakeholders. "
>
>However I am very eager to hear you argue why 
>you think that this is all what they really 
>meant.
>
>Parminder
>
>
>
>
>
>Kleinwächter, Wolfgang wrote:
>
>>Parminder:
>>
>>IBSA (India, S Africa and Brazil) countries (as 
>>also my own organization) did call for such a 
>>possible new global institutional development 
>>(a framework convention ?) in their submission 
>>to the open consultations on 'enhanced 
>>cooperation'.
>>
>>Wolfgang:
>>
>>If you read the IBSA proposal carefully you 
>>will discover that this is different from 
>>previous proposals for an intergovernmental 
>>body. The proposal says very carefully that 
>>there is a gap or missing link in the existing 
>>architecture of Internet Governance 
>>organisations. The proposed intergovernmental 
>>body should fill this gap not in a way to 
>>substitute exising mechanisms but enhancing the 
>>existing mechnisms. With other words, it is 
>>about "enhancement", not about "subordination" 
>>or "substitution" or "oversight" or 
>>"replacement" or "takeover".  And this is an 
>>important difference. The Chinese MAG member 
>>proposed in the IGF Consultations in 2009 to 
>>substitute the multistakeholder dialogue by an 
>>intergovernmental negotiation process to move 
>>towards an intergovernmental (oversight) body. 
>>The ISBA proposal is rather different. This is 
>>rather similar to what is considered by the 
>>Council of Europe (CoE). What we discuss in the 
>>CeO Cross Border Internet Expert Group is that 
>>we recogn
>>ize the need to specifiy the "respective role" 
>>of governments in Internet Governance but in a 
>>way that this intergovernmental component 
>>should be embedded into a multistakeholder 
>>framework of commitments. The objective is not 
>>to create a new hierachiy for top down policy 
>>and decision  making, the objective is to 
>>create an enhanced network where stakeholders 
>>can "enhance" their communication, coordination 
>>and collaboration both among themselves and and 
>>with other stakeholders.
>>
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From mariliamaciel at gmail.com  Sat Jan 22 17:04:41 2011
From: mariliamaciel at gmail.com (Marilia Maciel)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:04:41 -0200
Subject: [governance] Draft statement on Nairobi meeting programme
In-Reply-To: <4D3AC9EF.3030200@itforchange.net>
References: <E09009D3-015C-44D5-9761-F897BF39CE8E@ciroap.org>
	<s04LyeHqXsONFAp9@internetpolicyagency.com>
	<4D3AC9EF.3030200@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimYWQr=mHtANNxeFCoLtrE0oK-gyhtgNOThsoSa@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jeremy, very good summary of the main issues under the three themes.


While I agree with your approach that makes A2K a transversal issue, I
believe it is very important that we go beyond words and really mainstream
it on the debates.


I have just returned from the A2K Global Academy in Cape Town and one of the
topics discussed, particularly in the presentation delivered by Laura De
Nardis, was the interplay between infrastructure issues (such as peering
agreements, interconnection costs and network neutrality) and A2K. The theme
is also important if we consider that one of the main transboder issues
under debate is IP enforcement and ISP liability.


In sum, the regimes of “governance of knowledge” and of Internet governance
are very much interconnected.


It is regrettable to notice that the space that A2K has had in IGF agenda
has continuously diminished over the years. Last year A2K was placed under
"Security, openness and privacy" main session, which already embodies a lot
of controversial and important topics. As predicted, A2K had no space for
discussion.

Best,

Marilia


On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 10:13 AM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>wrote:

>  "If your network delivers content mainly to mobile users, it makes sense
> to try to gather some of the necessary extra revenue at the inbound edge
> (and leave the publisher to offset that by the income generation in his own
> business plan), rather than handing out an indefinite "free lunch". "
>
> Pay-for-priority distorts the very nature of the Internet, and over time
> the Internet will just not look the same. (Charging different fees for
> download volumes is a very different thing. ) It changes the level playing
> field nature of this new and revolutionary communication paradigm of the
> Internet. It thus impacts freedom of expression, economic competitiveness
> for new players, and egalitarian possibilities that Internet offer. A simple
> cost-profit and economic feasibility framework is not the best way to
> understand the implications of the NN issue, as it is not for media and
> other constructions of the public sphere, and as it not for many other
> social and cultural issues. Happy to discuss this issue further - quite
> close to my heart.
>
> parminder
>
> Roland Perry wrote:
>
> In message <E09009D3-015C-44D5-9761-F897BF39CE8E at ciroap.org><E09009D3-015C-44D5-9761-F897BF39CE8E at ciroap.org>,
> at 19:14:11 on Sat, 22 Jan 2011, Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org><jeremy at ciroap.org>writes
>
> Should different rules apply for mobile and wired Internet networks?  If
> so, how can communications rights and Access to Knowledge be preserved for
> those users, in order to avoid an ongoing information divide
>
>
> I recall debates (in the UK) about fifteen years ago where the theme was
> wanting "freephone" or "800" access to ISP modem banks on the grounds that
> paying around five dollars[1] an hour for a regular phone call was some kind
> of infringement of a right to free expression.
>
> No-one was able to explain how the dial-up telephone infrastructure which
> is required to support [what eventually became at some times of day the
> biggest user of the telephone network] was to be paid for.
>
> Eventually a compromise of paying at "local call" cost of perhaps 2 cents a
> minute, despite the calls often being long distance, was arrived at. Then
> ten years ago cable and ADSL happened, and people forgot the charging
> aspects of dial-up Internet, along with forgetting the restricted bandwidth.
>
>
> Now history is repeating itself with 3G data (very few people even expected
> to use 2/2.5G data for more than email). Carriers who over-generously
> offered "unlimited" plans of perhaps one to three Gigabytes a month for
> thirty dollars (which includes handset rental and voice calls) find their
> networks choked by people downloading streaming video, and try to invoke
> caps [limits] typically in the region of half a Gigabyte a month. Which
> would be several year's worth of email, even for a prolific user such as
> myself.
>
> For those using 3G 'dongles' rather than phones, a cost of around fifteen
> dollars per Gigabyte is typical (there are no "unlimited" plans that I'm
> aware of). But that's a lot of money to watch a movie (one Gigabyte is a
> quarter of a DVD), when it's been estimated that mainstream ADSL costs the
> ISPs about 20 cents per hour for TV-quality movies.
>
> So this is not about Network Neutrality, but "Local Loop neutrality", where
> end users are in denial about the varying costs of telecoms provision *of
> that last mile*, be it by GSM, ADSL or whatever. The previous thousand miles
> will cost much the same irrespective of the technology of the local loop.
>
> If your network delivers content mainly to mobile users, it makes sense to
> try to gather some of the necessary extra revenue at the inbound edge (and
> leave the publisher to offset that by the income generation in his own
> business plan), rather than handing out an indefinite "free lunch".
>
> Of course, if users are happy to express their freedom in ways other than
> downloading movies all day, there isn't a problem.
>
> [1] I use USA money as it's more recognisable.
>
>
> --
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
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>
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>
>


-- 
Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade
FGV Direito Rio

Center for Technology and Society
Getulio Vargas Foundation
Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
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From roland at internetpolicyagency.com  Sat Jan 22 17:05:50 2011
From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 22:05:50 +0000
Subject: [governance] Draft statement on Nairobi meeting programme
In-Reply-To: <4D3AC9EF.3030200@itforchange.net>
References: <E09009D3-015C-44D5-9761-F897BF39CE8E@ciroap.org>
 <s04LyeHqXsONFAp9@internetpolicyagency.com>
 <4D3AC9EF.3030200@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <WsdFkjA+S1ONFAen@internetpolicyagency.com>

In message <4D3AC9EF.3030200 at itforchange.net>, at 17:43:35 on Sat, 22 
Jan 2011, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> writes
>"If your network delivers content mainly to mobile users, it makes
>sense to try to gather some of the necessary extra revenue at the
>inbound edge (and leave the publisher to offset that by the income
>generation in his own business plan), rather than handing out an
>indefinite "free lunch". "
>
>Pay-for-priority distorts the very nature of the Internet, and over
>time the Internet will just not look the same. (Charging different fees
>for download volumes is a very different thing. )

The only cases where "priority" in real time matters is streaming 
content such as VoIP and video. The latter is mainly a "download volume" 
issue, but there are some issues with VoIP where telcos and governments 
sometimes see it as an abstraction of revenue. To that extent I agree 
that an Internet without VoIP would be different.

>It changes the level playing field nature of this new and revolutionary 
>communication paradigm of the Internet. It thus impacts freedom of 
>expression, economic competitiveness for new players, and egalitarian 
>possibilities that Internet offer.

But only for the one application (VoIP) which competes head-on with the 
carriers. There isn't another (unless you count IM vs SMS, and I don't 
see much liklihood of mobile networks throttling IM to force you to use 
SMS instead).

>A simple cost-profit and economic feasibility
>framework is not the best way to understand the implications of the NN
>issue, as it is not for media and other constructions of the public
>sphere, and as it not for many other social and cultural issues. Happy
>to discuss this issue further - quite close to my heart.

Also very happy to discuss which applications, other than video 
streaming and VoIP, you think might be affected by lack of neutrality.

And can I assume from your opening remarks that you think it's OK to 
charge <someone> for the extra burden of streaming video?

-- 
Roland Perry
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From roland at internetpolicyagency.com  Sat Jan 22 17:10:29 2011
From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 22:10:29 +0000
Subject: [governance] cross-border IG issues
In-Reply-To: <4D3AD5F5.90707@itforchange.net>
References: <4D3A8824.5040900@itforchange.net>
 <p0624080ac960449f3918@[192.168.1.160]> <4D3AA246.2080207@itforchange.net>
 <BSsg7fB4arONFA+Y@internetpolicyagency.com> <4D3AD5F5.90707@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <Mc3DIdBVX1ONFA$0@internetpolicyagency.com>

In message <4D3AD5F5.90707 at itforchange.net>, at 18:34:53 on Sat, 22 Jan 
2011, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> writes
>Roland Perry wrote:
>  In message <4D3AA246.2080207 at itforchange.net>, at 14:54:22 on Sat,
>  22 Jan 2011, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> writes
>    The fact that all the above mega corporates, as well as ICANN
>>    itself,
>  I thought you were trying to avoid discussions which confuse
>  governance of the infrastructure with governance of the content.
>    are as you say are companies registered in the US is a huge IG
>>    issue. I dont want my personal data to be accessed by anyone
>>    without my consent. And if exceptional conditions of possible
>>    involvement in a crime etc are involved I would have it handled
>>    only by a body/ authority  in whose constitution I have a
>>    democratic role, which regrettably is not the case with the US
>>    gov.
>  Then it is up to you (and those of a like mind) to "vote with your
>  feet" and subscribe to websites run from different jurisdictions.
>  And if you don't think they exist, it's not the Internet
>  infrastructure that's preventing it.
>What do you think is preventing it?

Mainly the first-mover advantage that seems to be very much the hallmark 
of famous US-based applications.

>If your response to cross border issues I bring up is to advice cutting
>back to an Internet (or Internets) that fits jurisdictional boundaries,
>it is indeed an internally coherent solution. However, I still think
>that it is possible to preserve a global Internet if we can muster
>enough political  will and courage to develop the necessary global
>political system.

I'd be very happy to see a co-ordinated regulatory framework applied 
globally, for issues such as Data Privacy (and disclosure to law 
enforcement) and so on. The whole world signed up to the Budapest 
Convention!
-- 
Roland Perry
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From mariliamaciel at gmail.com  Sat Jan 22 17:24:50 2011
From: mariliamaciel at gmail.com (Marilia Maciel)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:24:50 -0200
Subject: [governance] Draft statement on Nairobi meeting programme
In-Reply-To: <WsdFkjA+S1ONFAen@internetpolicyagency.com>
References: <E09009D3-015C-44D5-9761-F897BF39CE8E@ciroap.org>
	<s04LyeHqXsONFAp9@internetpolicyagency.com>
	<4D3AC9EF.3030200@itforchange.net>
	<WsdFkjA+S1ONFAen@internetpolicyagency.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikH-sUMqdbapwROCNPcjvmCPbrdFBQZwNkFG9-t@mail.gmail.com>

"If your network delivers content mainly to mobile users, it makes sense to
try to gather some of the necessary extra revenue at the inbound edge (and
leave the publisher to offset that by the income generation in his own
business plan), rather than handing out an indefinite "free lunch".

One of the panelists in the recent A2K GA argued that there is no technical
reason to treat cable and wireless differently. In fact, the traffic that
circulates in regular "wired" connection is partly transmitted in a wireless
manner already.

>From what I have seen on previous NN debates in IGF, the industry tends to
focus on technical design while CS tends to focus on rights and no real
dialogue comes out of the session. It would be very good to invite people to
the debate that could question the premises used by the industry. That would
help to "force" a dialogue and to bridge the technical and the rights
approach.

On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 8:05 PM, Roland Perry <
roland at internetpolicyagency.com> wrote:

> In message <4D3AC9EF.3030200 at itforchange.net>, at 17:43:35 on Sat, 22 Jan
> 2011, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> writes
>
>  "If your network delivers content mainly to mobile users, it makes
>> sense to try to gather some of the necessary extra revenue at the
>> inbound edge (and leave the publisher to offset that by the income
>> generation in his own business plan), rather than handing out an
>> indefinite "free lunch". "
>>
>> Pay-for-priority distorts the very nature of the Internet, and over
>> time the Internet will just not look the same. (Charging different fees
>> for download volumes is a very different thing. )
>>
>
> The only cases where "priority" in real time matters is streaming content
> such as VoIP and video. The latter is mainly a "download volume" issue, but
> there are some issues with VoIP where telcos and governments sometimes see
> it as an abstraction of revenue. To that extent I agree that an Internet
> without VoIP would be different.
>
>
>  It changes the level playing field nature of this new and revolutionary
>> communication paradigm of the Internet. It thus impacts freedom of
>> expression, economic competitiveness for new players, and egalitarian
>> possibilities that Internet offer.
>>
>
> But only for the one application (VoIP) which competes head-on with the
> carriers. There isn't another (unless you count IM vs SMS, and I don't see
> much liklihood of mobile networks throttling IM to force you to use SMS
> instead).
>
>
>  A simple cost-profit and economic feasibility
>> framework is not the best way to understand the implications of the NN
>> issue, as it is not for media and other constructions of the public
>> sphere, and as it not for many other social and cultural issues. Happy
>> to discuss this issue further - quite close to my heart.
>>
>
> Also very happy to discuss which applications, other than video streaming
> and VoIP, you think might be affected by lack of neutrality.
>
> And can I assume from your opening remarks that you think it's OK to charge
> <someone> for the extra burden of streaming video?
>
>
> --
> Roland Perry
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>    governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
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>
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From ian.peter at ianpeter.com  Sat Jan 22 17:24:32 2011
From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter)
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 09:24:32 +1100
Subject: [governance] Draft statement on Nairobi meeting programme
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimYWQr=mHtANNxeFCoLtrE0oK-gyhtgNOThsoSa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C961A450.158BB%ian.peter@ianpeter.com>

I¹m with Marilia for advancing the A2K agenda.



From: Marilia Maciel <mariliamaciel at gmail.com>
Reply-To: <governance at lists.cpsr.org>, Marilia Maciel
<mariliamaciel at gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:04:41 -0200
To: <governance at lists.cpsr.org>
Subject: Re: [governance] Draft statement on Nairobi meeting programme

Hi Jeremy, very good summary of the main issues under the three themes.


While I agree with your approach that makes A2K a transversal issue, I
believe it is very important that we go beyond words and really mainstream
it on the debates.


I have just returned from the A2K Global Academy in Cape Town and one of the
topics discussed, particularly in the presentation delivered by Laura De
Nardis, was the interplay between infrastructure issues (such as peering
agreements, interconnection costs and network neutrality) and A2K. The theme
is also important if we consider that one of the main transboder issues
under debate is IP enforcement and ISP liability.



In sum, the regimes of ³governance of knowledge² and of Internet governance
are very much interconnected.

It is regrettable to notice that the space that A2K has had in IGF agenda
has continuously diminished over the years. Last year A2K was placed under
"Security, openness and privacy" main session, which already embodies a lot
of controversial and important topics. As predicted, A2K had no space for
discussion. 

Best,

Marilia


On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 10:13 AM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
wrote:
>  
>  "If your network delivers content mainly to mobile users, it makes sense to
> try to gather some of the necessary extra revenue at the inbound edge (and
> leave the publisher to offset that by the income generation in his own
> business plan), rather than handing out an indefinite "free lunch". "
>  
>  Pay-for-priority distorts the very nature of the Internet, and over time the
> Internet will just not look the same. (Charging different fees for download
> volumes is a very different thing. ) It changes the level playing field nature
> of this new and revolutionary communication paradigm of the Internet. It thus
> impacts freedom of expression, economic competitiveness for new players, and
> egalitarian possibilities that Internet offer. A simple cost-profit and
> economic feasibility framework is not the best way to understand the
> implications of the NN issue, as it is not for media and other constructions
> of the public sphere, and as it not for many other social and cultural issues.
> Happy to discuss this issue further - quite close to my heart.
>  
>  parminder 
>  
>  Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <E09009D3-015C-44D5-9761-F897BF39CE8E at ciroap.org>
>> <mailto:E09009D3-015C-44D5-9761-F897BF39CE8E at ciroap.org> , at 19:14:11 on
>> Sat, 22 Jan 2011, Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org>
>> <mailto:jeremy at ciroap.org>  writes
>>  
>>    
>>> Should different rules apply for mobile and wired Internet networks?  If so,
>>> how can communications rights and Access to Knowledge be preserved for those
>>> users, in order to avoid an ongoing information divide
>>>  
>>    
>>  I recall debates (in the UK) about fifteen years ago where the theme was
>> wanting "freephone" or "800" access to ISP modem banks on the grounds that
>> paying around five dollars[1] an hour for a regular phone call was some kind
>> of infringement of a right to free expression.
>>  
>>  No-one was able to explain how the dial-up telephone infrastructure which is
>> required to support [what eventually became at some times of day the biggest
>> user of the telephone network] was to be paid for.
>>    
>>  Eventually a compromise of paying at "local call" cost of perhaps 2 cents a
>> minute, despite the calls often being long distance, was arrived at. Then ten
>> years ago cable and ADSL happened, and people forgot the charging aspects of
>> dial-up Internet, along with forgetting the restricted bandwidth.
>>  
>>  Now history is repeating itself with 3G data (very few people even expected
>> to use 2/2.5G data for more than email). Carriers who over-generously offered
>> "unlimited" plans of perhaps one to three Gigabytes a month for thirty
>> dollars (which includes handset rental and voice calls) find their networks
>> choked by people downloading streaming video, and try to invoke caps [limits]
>> typically in the region of half a Gigabyte a month. Which would be several
>> year's worth of email, even for a prolific user such as myself.
>>  
>>  For those using 3G 'dongles' rather than phones, a cost of around fifteen
>> dollars per Gigabyte is typical (there are no "unlimited" plans that I'm
>> aware of). But that's a lot of money to watch a movie (one Gigabyte is a
>> quarter of a DVD), when it's been estimated that mainstream ADSL costs the
>> ISPs about 20 cents per hour for TV-quality movies.
>>  
>>  So this is not about Network Neutrality, but "Local Loop neutrality", where
>> end users are in denial about the varying costs of telecoms provision *of
>> that last mile*, be it by GSM, ADSL or whatever. The previous thousand miles
>> will cost much the same irrespective of the technology of the local loop.
>>  
>>  If your network delivers content mainly to mobile users, it makes sense to
>> try to gather some of the necessary extra revenue at the inbound edge (and
>> leave the publisher to offset that by the income generation in his own
>> business plan), rather than handing out an indefinite "free lunch".
>>  
>>  Of course, if users are happy to express their freedom in ways other than
>> downloading movies all day, there isn't a problem.
>>    
>>  [1] I use USA money as it's more recognisable.
>>  
>  
>  
> --  
>  
>   
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
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> 
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> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> 
> 



-- 
Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade
FGV Direito Rio

Center for Technology and Society
Getulio Vargas Foundation
Rio de Janeiro - Brazil


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From jeremy at ciroap.org  Sat Jan 22 18:46:58 2011
From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm)
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 07:46:58 +0800
Subject: [governance] Draft statement on Nairobi meeting programme
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimYWQr=mHtANNxeFCoLtrE0oK-gyhtgNOThsoSa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E09009D3-015C-44D5-9761-F897BF39CE8E@ciroap.org> <s04LyeHqXsONFAp9@internetpolicyagency.com> <4D3AC9EF.3030200@itforchange.net> <AANLkTimYWQr=mHtANNxeFCoLtrE0oK-gyhtgNOThsoSa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2FC06E48-1780-45EF-89DC-1207BFA2F8DB@ciroap.org>

On 23/01/2011, at 6:04 AM, Marilia Maciel wrote:
> While I agree with your approach that makes A2K a transversal issue, I believe it is very important that we go beyond words and really mainstream it on the debates.
> 
Marilia and Ian, I'm not sure from your comments if you are both saying that you want to see us putting forward a separate fourth theme (since I don't see anyone suggesting that we should remove one of the existing three themes).  Could you clarify and, if that is what you are saying, perhaps suggest some text?

-- 
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599

Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
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Read our email confidentiality notice. Don't print this email unless necessary.

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From mariliamaciel at gmail.com  Sat Jan 22 19:02:03 2011
From: mariliamaciel at gmail.com (Marilia Maciel)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 22:02:03 -0200
Subject: [governance] Draft statement on Nairobi meeting programme
In-Reply-To: <2FC06E48-1780-45EF-89DC-1207BFA2F8DB@ciroap.org>
References: <E09009D3-015C-44D5-9761-F897BF39CE8E@ciroap.org>
	<s04LyeHqXsONFAp9@internetpolicyagency.com>
	<4D3AC9EF.3030200@itforchange.net>
	<AANLkTimYWQr=mHtANNxeFCoLtrE0oK-gyhtgNOThsoSa@mail.gmail.com>
	<2FC06E48-1780-45EF-89DC-1207BFA2F8DB@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikXCXRZcDM-syw8w6PMBgVmbrOZ-wwPbDcSnxTP@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jeremy,


I did not suggest it as a forth theme, since you said that we generally only
put forward three topics. If you guys believe that a fourth theme should be
added, I would be happy to draft a text. If three themes seem to be the best
way to go, I would like to ask us to *really* make A2K present in all
discussions as you suggested. For that, we will need to carefully think
about the approach and the names of speakers for the main sessions, who
could link A2K with NN, transborder issues, etc. Of course, workshop
proposals would be also important to reach a more rounded understanding of
these interplays.


Marília


On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 9:46 PM, Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org> wrote:

> On 23/01/2011, at 6:04 AM, Marilia Maciel wrote:
>
> While I agree with your approach that makes A2K a transversal issue, I
> believe it is very important that we go beyond words and really mainstream
> it on the debates.
>
> Marilia and Ian, I'm not sure from your comments if you are both saying
> that you want to see us putting forward a separate fourth theme (since I
> don't see anyone suggesting that we should remove one of the existing three
> themes).  Could you clarify and, if that is what you are saying, perhaps
> suggest some text?
>
> --
>
> *Jeremy Malcolm
> Project Coordinator*
> Consumers International
> Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
> Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur,
> Malaysia
> Tel: +60 3 7726 1599
> *
> Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers
> CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
> Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer
> groups from around the world
> for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to
> consumers. Register now!
> http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
> Twitter #CICongress
> *
>
> Read our email confidentiality notice<http://www.consumersinternational.org/email-confidentiality>.
> Don't print this email unless necessary.
>
>


-- 
Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade
FGV Direito Rio

Center for Technology and Society
Getulio Vargas Foundation
Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
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From lmcknigh at syr.edu  Sat Jan 22 21:47:59 2011
From: lmcknigh at syr.edu (Lee W McKnight)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 21:47:59 -0500
Subject: [governance] Draft statement on Nairobi meeting programme
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikXCXRZcDM-syw8w6PMBgVmbrOZ-wwPbDcSnxTP@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E09009D3-015C-44D5-9761-F897BF39CE8E@ciroap.org>
	<s04LyeHqXsONFAp9@internetpolicyagency.com>
	<4D3AC9EF.3030200@itforchange.net>
	<AANLkTimYWQr=mHtANNxeFCoLtrE0oK-gyhtgNOThsoSa@mail.gmail.com>
	<2FC06E48-1780-45EF-89DC-1207BFA2F8DB@ciroap.org>,<AANLkTikXCXRZcDM-syw8w6PMBgVmbrOZ-wwPbDcSnxTP@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <93F4C2F3D19A03439EAC16D47C591DDE03361090C5@suex07-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu>

Hi,

A quick word of encouragement for Marila to draft a fourth possible a2k theme, can't hurt right.

But in general I am fine with Jeremy's distillation of three workable themes

Lee


________________________________________
From: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org [governance-request at lists.cpsr.org] On Behalf Of Marilia Maciel [mariliamaciel at gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 7:02 PM
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
Subject: Re: [governance] Draft statement on Nairobi meeting programme

Hi Jeremy,

I did not suggest it as a forth theme, since you said that we generally only put forward three topics. If you guys believe that a fourth theme should be added, I would be happy to draft a text. If three themes seem to be the best way to go, I would like to ask us to *really* make A2K present in all discussions as you suggested. For that, we will need to carefully think about the approach and the names of speakers for the main sessions, who could link A2K with NN, transborder issues, etc. Of course, workshop proposals would be also important to reach a more rounded understanding of these interplays.

Marília


On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 9:46 PM, Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org<mailto:jeremy at ciroap.org>> wrote:
On 23/01/2011, at 6:04 AM, Marilia Maciel wrote:
While I agree with your approach that makes A2K a transversal issue, I believe it is very important that we go beyond words and really mainstream it on the debates.
Marilia and Ian, I'm not sure from your comments if you are both saying that you want to see us putting forward a separate fourth theme (since I don't see anyone suggesting that we should remove one of the existing three themes).  Could you clarify and, if that is what you are saying, perhaps suggest some text?


--
Jeremy Malcolm
Project Coordinator
Consumers International
Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599
Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers
CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong
Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer groups from around the world
for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most to consumers. Register now!
http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress
Twitter #CICongress

Read our email confidentiality notice<http://www.consumersinternational.org/email-confidentiality>. Don't print this email unless necessary.




--
Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade
FGV Direito Rio

Center for Technology and Society
Getulio Vargas Foundation
Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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From lmcknigh at syr.edu  Sat Jan 22 22:04:30 2011
From: lmcknigh at syr.edu (Lee W McKnight)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 22:04:30 -0500
Subject: [governance] cross-border IG issues
In-Reply-To: <Mc3DIdBVX1ONFA$0@internetpolicyagency.com>
References: <4D3A8824.5040900@itforchange.net>
 <p0624080ac960449f3918@[192.168.1.160]> <4D3AA246.2080207@itforchange.net>
 <BSsg7fB4arONFA+Y@internetpolicyagency.com>
 <4D3AD5F5.90707@itforchange.net>,<Mc3DIdBVX1ONFA$0@internetpolicyagency.com>
Message-ID: <93F4C2F3D19A03439EAC16D47C591DDE03361090C6@suex07-mbx-08.ad.syr.edu>

Hi,

A couple points:

First in honor of President Hu of China's just concluded US visit, we should remember by far the largest mobile telco - and hence probably largest player in mobile Internet if not already the largest - is China Mobile.
Which is approaching 600m subscribers.  Total Internet subs in China are about 500m.

The increasingly dominant search provider is Baidu, not Google; according to a report from a couple days ago 'Baidu's share of the increasingly lucrative sector hit 75.5 per cent in the last three months of the year, compared with 73 per cent in the third quarter.' That is 4thquarter 2010 numbers.

So point is focusing on US companies alone misses - a lot - of the present global Internet, not just in China.

Second, in regard to charging for priority...that has been widely done for many years, albeit it is usually the content owners/advertisers paying trying to get streams to end users at a higher quality. For example, from Akamai's website: "If you use the Internet for anything - to download music or software, check the headlines, book a flight - you've probably used Akamai's services without even knowing it. We play a critical role in getting content from providers to consumers.

Akamai has created a digital operating environment for the Web. Our global platform of thousands of specially-equipped servers helps the Internet withstand the crush of daily requests for rich, dynamic, and interactive content, transactions, and applications. When delivering on these requests, Akamai detects and avoids Internet problem spots and vulnerabilities, to ensure Websites perform optimally, media and software download flawlessly, and applications perform reliably."

My aim is not to nitpick, and I continue to support a framework convention or other mechanism - like a declaration of Internet Rights and Principles - to strengthen enhanced cooperation/global Internet governance.

In sum, yes there are many cross-border Internet issues; yes the US government and US-based corporations are players, but the framing is - dated - if it misses inclusion of half a billion users and companies that serve them.

And don't notice all the companies paying other companies for priority access - to us end users.

Lee
________________________________________
From: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org [governance-request at lists.cpsr.org] On Behalf Of Roland Perry [roland at internetpolicyagency.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 5:10 PM
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
Subject: Re: [governance] cross-border IG issues

In message <4D3AD5F5.90707 at itforchange.net>, at 18:34:53 on Sat, 22 Jan
2011, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> writes
>Roland Perry wrote:
>  In message <4D3AA246.2080207 at itforchange.net>, at 14:54:22 on Sat,
>  22 Jan 2011, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> writes
>    The fact that all the above mega corporates, as well as ICANN
>>    itself,
>  I thought you were trying to avoid discussions which confuse
>  governance of the infrastructure with governance of the content.
>    are as you say are companies registered in the US is a huge IG
>>    issue. I dont want my personal data to be accessed by anyone
>>    without my consent. And if exceptional conditions of possible
>>    involvement in a crime etc are involved I would have it handled
>>    only by a body/ authority  in whose constitution I have a
>>    democratic role, which regrettably is not the case with the US
>>    gov.
>  Then it is up to you (and those of a like mind) to "vote with your
>  feet" and subscribe to websites run from different jurisdictions.
>  And if you don't think they exist, it's not the Internet
>  infrastructure that's preventing it.
>What do you think is preventing it?

Mainly the first-mover advantage that seems to be very much the hallmark
of famous US-based applications.

>If your response to cross border issues I bring up is to advice cutting
>back to an Internet (or Internets) that fits jurisdictional boundaries,
>it is indeed an internally coherent solution. However, I still think
>that it is possible to preserve a global Internet if we can muster
>enough political  will and courage to develop the necessary global
>political system.

I'd be very happy to see a co-ordinated regulatory framework applied
globally, for issues such as Data Privacy (and disclosure to law
enforcement) and so on. The whole world signed up to the Budapest
Convention!
--
Roland Perry
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From parminder at itforchange.net  Sun Jan 23 01:00:42 2011
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 11:30:42 +0530
Subject: [governance] Draft statement on Nairobi meeting programme
In-Reply-To: <E09009D3-015C-44D5-9761-F897BF39CE8E@ciroap.org>
References: <E09009D3-015C-44D5-9761-F897BF39CE8E@ciroap.org>
Message-ID: <4D3BC40A.2050405@itforchange.net>

Jeremy,

Thanks for this framing. Largely works for me. However, I prefer the use 
of the term or topic 'Network Neutrality on wired and wireless 
networks'. A couple of reasons for that. Outside the US the NN term is 
the one most clearly recognized, and used in telecom policy related 
discussions. For that matter, in EU too , NN is the recognised term, and 
the CoE expert group on cross border issues has 'cross border NN' as one 
of its main themes.

Using the term open Internet also has the disadvantage of the discussion 
getting too defocussed over the umbrella theme of 'openness' at it got 
discussed in the earlier IGFs. Quite regrettably, many of those who do 
not want NN like themes to be taken up seriously at the global policy 
level use various kinds of thematic obfuscation to avoid meaningful 
discussion on this theme. We should avoid that trap. The issues around 
NN are rather clear today, and that is the clear discussion we want.

Also IGC and others have held workshops on NN in the earlier IGFs, and 
theses efforts background taking up NN as a plenary theme. For all these 
reasons I think we shd stick to NN rather use the term 'open internet' 
though I completely understand Lee's arguments in this regard.

Parminder


Jeremy Malcolm wrote:
> Here (and at http://www.igcaucus.org/digress.it) is a statement based 
> on the suggestions for the Nairobi meeting programme.  I have tried to 
> incorporate everything, so if I missed your suggestion please let me 
> know.
>
> Because we generally only put forward three topics, I have not 
> included A2K as a separate theme, but instead have expressly included 
> it in each of the other three themes.
>
> --- begins ---
>
> For the Nairobi 2011 meeting of the IGF, the Internet Governance 
> Caucus suggests the following main session themes:
>
> *1. Open **Wired and Mobile **Internet*
>
> Open Internet describes an ideal in which the openness of the Internet 
> to the broadest possible range of commercial and non-commercial 
> content, applications and services is maintained.  An open Internet is 
> one that supports development, promotes Access to Knowledge, and 
> resists perpetuating the power of old media and telecommunications 
> empires on the new network.
>
> With the explosion of Internet usage in the developing world mainly 
> occurring on mobile networks, it is particularly important to consider 
> how the ideal of open Internet will apply in the mobile space.  Should 
> different rules apply for mobile and wired Internet networks?  If so, 
> how can communications rights and Access to Knowledge be preserved for 
> those users, in order to avoid an ongoing information divide?
>
> In proposing this topic for the Nairobi IGF, we want to particularly 
> ensure that it does not shy away from areas of disagreement.  Only by 
> including panelists with divergent views on this topic can the very 
> real and practical Internet governance disputes in this area be 
> adequately and productively aired.
>
> *2. Cross border Issues*
>
> One of the oldest and thorniest issues for Internet governance 
> concerns the cross-border effects of national laws, policies, 
> enforcement practices, and the actions of intermediaries, on those who 
> have had no representation in the making of those laws, policies, etc. 
>  Current examples include actions taken by governments and 
> intermediaries against Wikileaks, and the "seizure" of domain names 
> alleged to be connected with content piracy.
>
> The process towards enhanced cooperation on Internet policy issues 
> could lead to new proposals that would address some of these 
> cross-border anomalies and deficits.  But at this stage of that 
> process, there is little shared understanding of the approach that 
> should be taken.  This session will look at the philosophical 
> underpinnings and foundations that need to emerge in a world where 
> something like the Internet transcends boundaries and national 
> jurisdictions.  Insights produced through this session may feed into 
> the enhanced coperation process.
>
> Once again, it will be important for discussion of this topic to 
> involve stakeholders with diverging views, discussing concrete issues 
> that demand eventual resolution.
>
> *3. Development agenda for Internet governance*
>
> Internet governance is not a neutral activity. All Internet governance 
> decisions have implications for development, though in some cases 
> these implications may be less obvious than in others, and they are 
> easily overlooked.
>
> An example is the way in which decisions about such diverse issues as 
> new global top level domains (gTLDs), Unicode, IP enforcement, 
> filtering and censorship, may have an adverse and sometimes unforeseen 
> impact on Access to Knowledge in the developing world.
>
> We propose a main session theme on developing a development agenda for 
> Internet governance, building on the similar session in Vilnius.  This 
> session will help to draw out areas of Internet governance which have 
> significant impacts on development, and to suggest how development 
> concerns can be mainstreamed in Internet governance institutions that 
> have responsibility in these areas.
>
> --- ends ---
>
> If you want to make paragraph-level comments, you can do so on the 
> list or you can do so at http://www.igcaucus.org/digress.it, our 
> Web-based tool which allows for threaded comments on each individual 
> paragraph.  I will summarise back here at the end.
>
> In other news... you may now edit your profile at 
> http://www.igcaucus.org to include additional optional fields - 
> previously those who tried to do this received an "LDAP error".  Other 
> than this, I don't have any more new progress to report on the Web 
> site yet.
> -- 
>
> *Jeremy Malcolm
> Project Coordinator*
> Consumers International
> Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East
> Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, 
> Malaysia
> Tel: +60 3 7726 1599
>
> *
> *Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers 
> CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong*
> Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join consumer 
> groups from around the world
> for four days of debate and discussion on the issues that matter most 
> to consumers. *Register now!*
> _http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress_
> Twitter #CICongress
> *
>
> Read our email confidentiality notice 
> <http://www.consumersinternational.org/email-confidentiality>. Don't 
> print this email unless necessary.
>

-- 
PK

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From parminder at itforchange.net  Sun Jan 23 01:34:55 2011
From: parminder at itforchange.net (parminder)
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 12:04:55 +0530
Subject: [governance] net neutrality
Message-ID: <4D3BCC0F.5020303@itforchange.net>

Read below an article that got published on NN in the UK today.

I do not think we, as a premier global CS group, can afford to *not* do 
something about this issue. So many times a discussion on NN on this 
list has run into this wall - it is a very complex issues  with many 
sides to it'. So ??? I dont think this is a good enough reason for 
abdication. One often hears excuses like, with voice and video 
domination the internet today NN is a meaningless concept. Not so at 
all. We can have specific provisions whereby specific applications can 
have different treatments while being content-provider neutral, this 
latter being the key issue. Norway's NN guidelines have oftne been 
mentioned in discussions here earlier. These guidelines allow space to 
manage voice and vedio applications related issues. IS there any reason 
why Norway's guidelines cannot be used globally, and why should IGC be 
forcefully pushing for them. I fear that if soon enough there is not a 
basic global consensus on NN guidelines even Norway like countries may 
not be able to preserve NN, such is the globalness of the Internet and 
its basic architectural principles.

What I am arguing for is that we should not only propose NN as a plenary 
topic and absolutely put our foot down that it must be accepted as a 
plenary topic, or else we find the whole exercise meaningless and may 
not even want to participate.... I mean the kind of warnings we issue 
about Ms-ism. Parminder


  The end of the net as we know it

Posted on 21 Jan 2011 at 13:34

ISPs are threatening to cripple websites that don't pay them first. 
Barry Collins fears a disastrous end to net neutrality

You flip open your laptop, click on the BBC iPlayer bookmark and press 
Play on the latest episode of QI. But instead of that tedious, 
plinky-plonky theme tune droning out of your laptop’s speakers, you’re 
left staring at the whirring, circular icon as the video buffers and 
buffers and buffers...

That’s odd. Not only have you got a new 40Mbits/sec fibre broadband 
connection, but you were watching a Full HD video on Sky Player just 
moments ago. There’s nothing wrong with your connection; it must be 
iPlayer. So you head to Twitter to find out if anyone else is having 
problems streaming Stephen Fry et al. The message that appears on your 
screen leaves you looking more startled than Bill Bailey. “This service 
isn’t supported on your broadband service. Click here to visit our 
social-networking partner, Facebook.”

    Net neutrality? We don’t have it today

The free, unrestricted internet as we know it is under threat. Britain’s 
leading ISPs are attempting to construct a two-tier internet, where 
websites and services that are willing to pay are thrust into the “fast 
lane”, while those that don’t are left fighting for scraps of bandwidth 
or even blocked outright. They’re not so much ripping up the cherished 
notion of net neutrality as pouring petrol over the pieces and lighting 
the match. The only question is: can they get away with it?

*No such thing as net neutrality*

It’s worth pointing out that the concept of net neutrality – ISPs 
treating different types of internet traffic or content equally – is 
already a busted flush. “Net neutrality? We don’t have it today,” argues 
Andrew Heaney, executive director of strategy and regulation at 
TalkTalk, Britain’s second biggest ISP.

“We have an unbelievably good, differentiated network at all levels, 
with huge levels of widespread discrimination of traffic types. [Some 
consumers] buy high speed, some buy low speed; some buy a lot of 
capacity, some buy less; some buy unshaped traffic, some buy shaped.
“So the suggestion that – ‘oh dear, it is terrible, we might move to a 
two-tiered internet in the future'... well, let’s get real, we have a 
very multifaceted and multitiered internet today,” Heaney said.

Indeed, the major ISPs claim it would be “unthinkable” to return to an 
internet where every packet of data was given equal weight. “Yes, the 
internet of 30 years ago was one in which all data, all the bits and the 
packets were treated in the same way as they passed through the 
network,” said Simon Milner, BT’s director of group industry policy. 
“That was an internet that wasn’t about the internet that we have today: 
it wasn’t about speech, it wasn’t about video, and it certainly wasn’t 
about television.

“Twenty years ago, the computer scientists realised that applications 
would grab as much bandwidth as they needed, and therefore some tools 
were needed to make this network work more effectively, and that’s why 
traffic management techniques and guaranteed quality of service were 
developed in the 1990s, and then deep-packet inspection came along 
roughly ten years ago,” he added. “These techniques and equipment are 
essential for the development of the internet we see today.”

It’s interesting to note that some smaller (and, yes, more expensive) 
ISPs such as Zen Internet don’t employ any traffic shaping across their 
network, and Zen has won the /PC Pro/ Best Broadband ISP award 
<http://www.pcpro.co.uk/html/awards-2010/> for the past seven years.

Even today’s traffic management methods can cause huge problems for 
certain websites and services. Peer-to-peer services are a common victim 
of ISPs’ traffic management policies, often being deprioritised to a 
snail’s pace during peak hours. While the intended target may be the 
bandwidth hogs using BitTorrent clients to download illicit copies of 
the latest movie releases, legitimate applications can also fall victim 
to such blunderbuss filtering.

“Peer-to-peer applications are very wide ranging,” said Jean-Jacques 
Sahel, director of government and regulatory affairs at VoIP service 
Skype. “They go from the lovely peer-to-peer file-sharing applications 
that were referred to in the Digital Economy Act, all the way to things 
such as the BBC iPlayer [which used to run on P2P software] or Skype. So 
what does that mean? If I manage my traffic from a technical 
perspective, knowing that Skype actually doesn’t eat up much bandwidth 
at all, why should it be deprioritised because it’s peer-to-peer?”

    Nowhere has the effect of draconian traffic management been felt
    more vividly than on the mobile internet

Nowhere has the effect of draconian traffic management been felt more 
vividly than on the mobile internet. Websites and services blocked at 
the whim of the network, video so compressed it looks like an Al-Qaeda 
propaganda tape, and varying charges for different types of data are 
already commonplace.

Skype is outlawed by a number of British mobile networks fearful of 
losing phone call revenue; 02 bans iPhone owners from watching the BBC 
iPlayer over a 3G connection; and almost all networks outlaw tethering a 
mobile phone to a laptop or tablet on standard “unlimited data” contracts.

Jim Killock, executive director of the Open Rights Group, has this 
chilling warning for fixed-line broadband users: “Look at the mobile 
market, think if that is how you want your internet and your devices to 
work in the future, because that’s where things are leading.”

*Video blockers*

Until now, fixed-line ISPs have largely resisted the more drastic 
blocking measures chosen by the mobile operators. But if there’s one 
area in which ISPs are gagging to rip up what’s left of the cherished 
concept of net neutrality, it’s video.

Streaming video recently overtook peer-to-peer to become the largest 
single category of internet traffic, according to Cisco’s Visual 
Networking Index. It’s the chief reason why the amount of data used by 
the average internet connection has shot up by 31% over the past year, 
to a once unthinkable 14.9GB a month.

Internet TV 
<http://www.pcpro.co.uk/gallery/features/364573/the-end-of-the-net-as-we-know-it/159070>

Managing video traffic is unquestionably a major headache for ISPs and 
broadcasters alike. ISPs are introducing ever tighter traffic management 
policies to make sure networks don’t collapse under the weight of 
video-on-demand during peak hours. Meanwhile, broadcasters such as the 
BBC and Channel 4 pay content delivery networks (CDNs) such as Akamai 
millions of pounds every year to distribute their video across the 
network and closer to the consumer; this helps avoid bandwidth 
bottlenecks when tens of thousands of people attempt to stream The 
Apprentice at the same time.

Now the ISPs want to cut out the middleman and get video broadcasters to 
pay them – instead of the CDNs – for guaranteed bandwidth. So if, for 
example, the BBC wants to guarantee that TalkTalk customers can watch 
uninterrupted HD streams from iPlayer, it had better be willing to pay 
for the privilege. A senior executive at a major broadcaster told /PC 
Pro/ that his company has already been approached by two leading ISPs 
looking to cut such a deal.

Broadcasters willing to pay will be put into the “fast lane”; those who 
don’t will be left to fight their way through the regular internet 
traffic jams. Whether or not you can watch a video, perhaps even one 
you’ve paid for, may no longer depend on the raw speed of your 
connection or the amount of network congestion, but whether the 
broadcaster has paid your ISP for a prioritised stream.

“We absolutely could see situations in which some content or application 
providers might want to pay BT for a quality of service above best 
efforts,” admitted BT’s Simon Milner at a recent Westminster eForum. 
“That is the kind of thing that we’d have to explain in our traffic 
management policies, and indeed we’d do so, and then if somebody 
decided, ‘well, actually I don’t want to have that kind of service’, 
they would be free to go elsewhere.”

    We absolutely could see situations in which some content or
    application providers might want to pay BT for a quality of service
    above best efforts

It gets worse. Asked directly at the same forum whether TalkTalk would 
be willing to cut off access completely to BBC iPlayer in favour of 
YouTube if the latter was prepared to sign a big enough cheque, 
TalkTalk’s Andrew Heaney replied: “We’d do a deal, and we’d look at 
YouTube and we’d look at BBC and we should have freedom to sign whatever 
deal works.”

That’s the country’s two biggest ISPs – with more than eight million 
broadband households between them – openly admitting they’d either cut 
off or effectively cripple video streams from an internet
broadcaster if it wasn’t willing to hand over a wedge of cash.

Understandably, many of the leading broadcasters are fearful. “The 
founding principle of the internet is that everyone – from individuals 
to global companies – has equal access,” wrote the BBC’s director of 
future media and technology, Erik Huggers, in a recent blog post on net 
neutrality. “Since the beginning, the internet has been ‘neutral’, and 
everyone has been treated the same. But the emergence of fast and slow 
lanes allow broadband providers to effectively pick and choose what you 
see first and fastest.”

ITV also opposes broadband providers being allowed to shut out certain 
sites or services. “We strongly believe that traffic throttling 
shouldn’t be conducted on the basis of content provider; throttling 
access to content from a particular company or institution,” the 
broadcaster said in a recent submission to regulator Ofcom’s 
consultation on net neutrality.

Sky, on the other hand – which is both a broadcaster and one of the 
country’s leading ISPs, and a company that could naturally benefit from 
shutting out rival broadcasters – raised no such objection in its 
submission to Ofcom. “Competition can and should be relied upon to 
provide the necessary consumer safeguards,” Sky argued.

Can it? Would YouTube – which was initially run from a small office 
above a pizzeria before Google weighed in with its $1.65 billion 
takeover – have got off the ground if its three founders had been forced 
to pay ISPs across the globe to ensure its videos could be watched 
smoothly? It seems unlikely.

*Walled-garden web*

It isn’t only high-bandwidth video sites that could potentially be 
blocked by ISPs. Virtually any type of site could find itself barred if 
one of its rivals has signed an exclusive deal with an ISP, returning 
the web to the kind of AOL walled-garden approach of the late 1990s.

Stop sign 
<http://www.pcpro.co.uk/gallery/features/364573/the-end-of-the-net-as-we-know-it/159073>

This isn’t journalistic scaremongering: the prospect of hugely popular 
sites being blocked by ISPs is already being debated by the Government. 
“I sign up to the two-year contract [with an ISP] and after 18 months my 
daughter comes and knocks on the lounge door and says ‘father, I can’t 
access Facebook any more’,” hypothesised Nigel Hickson, head of 
international ICT policy at the Department for Business, Innovation and 
Skills. “I say ‘Why?’. She says ‘It’s quite obvious, I have gone to the 
site and I have found that TalkTalk, BT, Virgin, Sky, whatever, don’t 
take Facebook any more. Facebook wouldn’t pay them the money, but 
YouTube has, so I have gone to YouTube’: Minister, is that acceptable? 
That is the sort of question we face.”

*Where’s the regulator?*

So what does Ofcom, the regulator that likes to say “yes”, think about 
the prospect of ISPs putting some sites in the fast lane and leaving the 
rest to scrap over the remaining bandwidth? It ran a consultation on net 
neutrality earlier this year, with spiky contributions from ISPs and 
broadcasters alike, but it appears to be coming down on the side of the 
broadband providers.

“I think we were very clear in our discussion document [on net 
neutrality] that we see the real economic merits to the idea of allowing 
a two-sided market to emerge,” said Alex Blowers, international director 
at Ofcom.

“Particularly for applications such as IPTV, where it seems to us that 
the consumer expectation will be a service that’s of a reasonably 
consistent quality, that allows you to actually sit down at the 
beginning of a film and watch it to the end without constant problems of 
jitter or the picture hanging,” he said. Taking that argument to its 
logical conclusion means that broadcasters who refuse to pay the ISPs’ 
bounty will be subject to stuttering quality.

Broadcasters are urging the regulator to be tougher. “We are concerned 
that Ofcom isn’t currently taking a firm stance in relation to 
throttling,” ITV said in its submission to the regulator. The BBC also 
said it has “concerns about the increasing potential incentives for 
discriminatory behaviour by network operators, which risks undermining 
the internet’s character, and ultimately resulting in consumer harm”.

Ofcom’s Blowers argues regulation would be premature as “there is very 
little evidence” that “the big beasts of the content application and 
services world are coming together and doing deals with big beasts of 
the network and ISP world”.

The regulator also places great faith in the power of competition: the 
theory that broadband subscribers would simply jump ship to another ISP 
if their provider started doing beastly things – for example, cutting 
off services such as the iPlayer. It’s a theory echoed by the ISPs 
themselves. “If we started blocking access to certain news sites, you 
could be sure within about 23 minutes it would be up on a blog and we’d 
be chastised for it, quite rightly too,” said TalkTalk’s Heaney.

    First and foremost, users should be able to access and distribute
    the content, services and applications they want

Yet, in the age of bundled packages – where broadband subscriptions are 
routinely sold as part of the same deal as TV, telephone or mobile 
services – hopping from one ISP to another is rarely simple. Not to 
mention the 18-month or two-year contracts broadband customers are 
frequently chained to. As the BBC pointed out in its submission to the 
regulator, “Ofcom’s 2009 research showed that a quarter of households 
found it difficult to switch broadband and bundled services”, with the 
“perceived hassle of the switching process” and “the threat of 
additional charges” dissuading potential switchers.

“Once you have bought a device or entered a contract, that’s that,” 
argued the Open Rights Group’s Jim Killock. “So you make your choice and 
you lump it, whereas the whole point of the internet is you make your 
choice, you don’t like it, you change your mind.”

The best hope of maintaining the status quo of a free and open internet 
may lie with the EU (although even its determination is wavering). The 
EU’s 2009 framework requires national regulators such as Ofcom to 
promote “the ability of end users to access and distribute information 
or run applications and services of their choice” and that ISPs are 
transparent about any traffic management.

It even pre-empts the scenario of ISPs putting favoured partners in the 
“fast lane” and crippling the rest, by giving Ofcom the power to set 
“minimum quality of service requirements” – forcing ISPs to reserve a 
set amount of bandwidth so that their traffic management doesn’t hobble 
those sites that can’t afford to pay.

It’s a concept enthusiastically backed by the BBC and others, but not by 
the ISPs or Ofcom, which doesn’t have to use this new power handed down 
by Brussels and seems reluctant to do so. “There doesn’t yet seem to us 
to be an overwhelming case for a public intervention that would 
effectively create a new industry structure around this idea of a 
guaranteed ‘best efforts’ internet underpinned by legislation,” said 
Ofcom’s Blowers.

It’s an attitude that sparks dismay from campaigners. “Ofcom’s approach 
creates large risks for the open internet,” said Killock. “Its attempts 
to manage and mitigate the risks are weak, by relying on transparency 
and competition alone, and it’s unfortunate it hasn’t addressed the idea 
of a minimum service guarantee.”

At least the EU is adamant that ISPs shouldn’t be permitted to block 
legal websites or services that conflict with their commercial 
interests. “First and foremost, users should be able to access and 
distribute the content, services and applications they want,” said 
European Commission vice president Neelie Kroes earlier this year.
“Discrimination against undesired competitors – for instance, those 
providing voice-over the internet services – shouldn’t be allowed.”

Yet, Ofcom doesn’t even regard this as a major issue. “When VoIP 
services were first launched in the UK, most [mobile] network operators 
were against permitting VoIP,” Blowers said. “We now know that you can 
find packages from a number of suppliers that do permit VoIP services.
So I’m not as pessimistic as some may be that this kind of gaming 
behaviour around blocking services will be a real problem.”

If the EU doesn’t drag the UK’s relaxed regulator into line with the 
rest of the world, it will be British internet users who have the real 
problem.

*Author:* Barry Collins


Read more: The end of the net as we know it | Broadband | Features | PC 
Pro 
<http://www.pcpro.co.uk/features/364573/the-end-of-the-net-as-we-know-it/print#ixzz1BpvJk95Y> 
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/features/364573/the-end-of-the-net-as-we-know-it/print#ixzz1BpvJk95Y

-- 
PK

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____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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From ajp at glocom.ac.jp  Sun Jan 23 01:48:31 2011
From: ajp at glocom.ac.jp (Adam Peake)
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 15:48:31 +0900
Subject: [governance] net neutrality
In-Reply-To: <4D3BCC0F.5020303@itforchange.net>
References: <4D3BCC0F.5020303@itforchange.net>
Message-ID: <p0624080bc9617f6bfdb1@[192.168.1.160]>

Some background 
<http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1658093> 
(self serving plug to a paper written by some 
colleagues and me, "A Comparison of Network 
Neutrality Approaches In: The U.S., Japan, and 
the European Union".)

Adam



>Read below an article that got published on NN in the UK today.
>
>I do not think we, as a premier global CS group, 
>can afford to *not* do something about this 
>issue. So many times a discussion on NN on this 
>list has run into this wall - it is a very 
>complex issues  with many sides to it'. So ??? I 
>dont think this is a good enough reason for 
>abdication. One often hears excuses like, with 
>voice and video domination the internet today NN 
>is a meaningless concept. Not so at all. We can 
>have specific provisions whereby specific 
>applications can have different treatments while 
>being content-provider neutral, this latter 
>being the key issue. Norway's NN guidelines have 
>oftne been mentioned in discussions here 
>earlier. These guidelines allow space to manage 
>voice and vedio applications related issues. IS 
>there any reason why Norway's guidelines cannot 
>be used globally, and why should IGC be 
>forcefully pushing for them. I fear that if soon 
>enough there is not a basic global consensus on 
>NN guidelines even Norway like countries may not 
>be able to preserve NN, such is the globalness 
>of the Internet and its basic architectural 
>principles.
>
>What I am arguing for is that we should not only 
>propose NN as a plenary topic and absolutely put 
>our foot down that it must be accepted as a 
>plenary topic, or else we find the whole 
>exercise meaningless and may not even want to 
>participate.... I mean the kind of warnings we 
>issue about Ms-ism. Parminder
>
>
>  The end of the net as we know it
>
>Posted on 21 Jan 2011 at 13:34
>
>ISPs are threatening to cripple websites that 
>don't pay them first. Barry Collins fears a 
>disastrous end to net neutrality
>
>You flip open your laptop, click on the BBC 
>iPlayer bookmark and press Play on the latest 
>episode of QI. But instead of that tedious, 
>plinky-plonky theme tune droning out of your 
>laptop¹s speakers, you¹re left staring at the 
>whirring, circular icon as the video buffers and 
>buffers and buffers...
>
>That¹s odd. Not only have you got a new 
>40Mbits/sec fibre broadband connection, but you 
>were watching a Full HD video on Sky Player just 
>moments ago. There¹s nothing wrong with your 
>connection; it must be iPlayer. So you head to 
>Twitter to find out if anyone else is having 
>problems streaming Stephen Fry et al. The 
>message that appears on your screen leaves you 
>looking more startled than Bill Bailey. ³This 
>service isn¹t supported on your broadband 
>service. Click here to visit our 
>social-networking partner, Facebook.²
>
>    Net neutrality? We don¹t have it today
>
>The free, unrestricted internet as we know it is 
>under threat. Britain¹s leading ISPs are 
>attempting to construct a two-tier internet, 
>where websites and services that are willing to 
>pay are thrust into the ³fast lane², while those 
>that don¹t are left fighting for scraps of 
>bandwidth or even blocked outright. They¹re not 
>so much ripping up the cherished notion of net 
>neutrality as pouring petrol over the pieces and 
>lighting the match. The only question is: can 
>they get away with it?
>
>*No such thing as net neutrality*
>
>It¹s worth pointing out that the concept of net 
>neutrality ­ ISPs treating different types of 
>internet traffic or content equally ­ is already 
>a busted flush. ³Net neutrality? We don¹t have 
>it today,² argues Andrew Heaney, executive 
>director of strategy and regulation at TalkTalk, 
>Britain¹s second biggest ISP.
>
>³We have an unbelievably good, differentiated 
>network at all levels, with huge levels of 
>widespread discrimination of traffic types. 
>[Some consumers] buy high speed, some buy low 
>speed; some buy a lot of capacity, some buy 
>less; some buy unshaped traffic, some buy shaped.
>³So the suggestion that ­ Œoh dear, it is 
>terrible, we might move to a two-tiered internet 
>in the future'... well, let¹s get real, we have 
>a very multifaceted and multitiered internet 
>today,² Heaney said.
>
>Indeed, the major ISPs claim it would be 
>³unthinkable² to return to an internet where 
>every packet of data was given equal weight. 
>³Yes, the internet of 30 years ago was one in 
>which all data, all the bits and the packets 
>were treated in the same way as they passed 
>through the network,² said Simon Milner, BT¹s 
>director of group industry policy. ³That was an 
>internet that wasn¹t about the internet that we 
>have today: it wasn¹t about speech, it wasn¹t 
>about video, and it certainly wasn¹t about 
>television.
>
>³Twenty years ago, the computer scientists 
>realised that applications would grab as much 
>bandwidth as they needed, and therefore some 
>tools were needed to make this network work more 
>effectively, and that¹s why traffic management 
>techniques and guaranteed quality of service 
>were developed in the 1990s, and then 
>deep-packet inspection came along roughly ten 
>years ago,² he added. ³These techniques and 
>equipment are essential for the development of 
>the internet we see today.²
>
>It¹s interesting to note that some smaller (and, 
>yes, more expensive) ISPs such as Zen Internet 
>don¹t employ any traffic shaping across their 
>network, and Zen has won the /PC Pro/ Best 
>Broadband ISP award 
><http://www.pcpro.co.uk/html/awards-2010/> for 
>the past seven years.
>
>Even today¹s traffic management methods can 
>cause huge problems for certain websites and 
>services. Peer-to-peer services are a common 
>victim of ISPs¹ traffic management policies, 
>often being deprioritised to a snail¹s pace 
>during peak hours. While the intended target may 
>be the bandwidth hogs using BitTorrent clients 
>to download illicit copies of the latest movie 
>releases, legitimate applications can also fall 
>victim to such blunderbuss filtering.
>
>³Peer-to-peer applications are very wide 
>ranging,² said Jean-Jacques Sahel, director of 
>government and regulatory affairs at VoIP 
>service Skype. ³They go from the lovely 
>peer-to-peer file-sharing applications that were 
>referred to in the Digital Economy Act, all the 
>way to things such as the BBC iPlayer [which 
>used to run on P2P software] or Skype. So what 
>does that mean? If I manage my traffic from a 
>technical perspective, knowing that Skype 
>actually doesn¹t eat up much bandwidth at all, 
>why should it be deprioritised because it¹s 
>peer-to-peer?²
>
>    Nowhere has the effect of draconian traffic management been felt
>    more vividly than on the mobile internet
>
>Nowhere has the effect of draconian traffic 
>management been felt more vividly than on the 
>mobile internet. Websites and services blocked 
>at the whim of the network, video so compressed 
>it looks like an Al-Qaeda propaganda tape, and 
>varying charges for different types of data are 
>already commonplace.
>
>Skype is outlawed by a number of British mobile 
>networks fearful of losing phone call revenue; 
>02 bans iPhone owners from watching the BBC 
>iPlayer over a 3G connection; and almost all 
>networks outlaw tethering a mobile phone to a 
>laptop or tablet on standard ³unlimited data² 
>contracts.
>
>Jim Killock, executive director of the Open 
>Rights Group, has this chilling warning for 
>fixed-line broadband users: ³Look at the mobile 
>market, think if that is how you want your 
>internet and your devices to work in the future, 
>because that¹s where things are leading.²
>
>*Video blockers*
>
>Until now, fixed-line ISPs have largely resisted 
>the more drastic blocking measures chosen by the 
>mobile operators. But if there¹s one area in 
>which ISPs are gagging to rip up what¹s left of 
>the cherished concept of net neutrality, it¹s 
>video.
>
>Streaming video recently overtook peer-to-peer 
>to become the largest single category of 
>internet traffic, according to Cisco¹s Visual 
>Networking Index. It¹s the chief reason why the 
>amount of data used by the average internet 
>connection has shot up by 31% over the past 
>year, to a once unthinkable 14.9GB a month.
>
>Internet TV 
><http://www.pcpro.co.uk/gallery/features/364573/the-end-of-the-net-as-we-know-it/159070>
>
>Managing video traffic is unquestionably a major 
>headache for ISPs and broadcasters alike. ISPs 
>are introducing ever tighter traffic management 
>policies to make sure networks don¹t collapse 
>under the weight of video-on-demand during peak 
>hours. Meanwhile, broadcasters such as the BBC 
>and Channel 4 pay content delivery networks 
>(CDNs) such as Akamai millions of pounds every 
>year to distribute their video across the 
>network and closer to the consumer; this helps 
>avoid bandwidth bottlenecks when tens of 
>thousands of people attempt to stream The 
>Apprentice at the same time.
>
>Now the ISPs want to cut out the middleman and 
>get video broadcasters to pay them ­ instead of 
>the CDNs ­ for guaranteed bandwidth. So if, for 
>example, the BBC wants to guarantee that 
>TalkTalk customers can watch uninterrupted HD 
>streams from iPlayer, it had better be willing 
>to pay for the privilege. A senior executive at 
>a major broadcaster told /PC Pro/ that his 
>company has already been approached by two 
>leading ISPs looking to cut such a deal.
>
>Broadcasters willing to pay will be put into the 
>³fast lane²; those who don¹t will be left to 
>fight their way through the regular internet 
>traffic jams. Whether or not you can watch a 
>video, perhaps even one you¹ve paid for, may no 
>longer depend on the raw speed of your 
>connection or the amount of network congestion, 
>but whether the broadcaster has paid your ISP 
>for a prioritised stream.
>
>³We absolutely could see situations in which 
>some content or application providers might want 
>to pay BT for a quality of service above best 
>efforts,² admitted BT¹s Simon Milner at a recent 
>Westminster eForum. ³That is the kind of thing 
>that we¹d have to explain in our traffic 
>management policies, and indeed we¹d do so, and 
>then if somebody decided, Œwell, actually I 
>don¹t want to have that kind of service¹, they 
>would be free to go elsewhere.²
>
>    We absolutely could see situations in which some content or
>    application providers might want to pay BT for a quality of service
>    above best efforts
>
>It gets worse. Asked directly at the same forum 
>whether TalkTalk would be willing to cut off 
>access completely to BBC iPlayer in favour of 
>YouTube if the latter was prepared to sign a big 
>enough cheque, TalkTalk¹s Andrew Heaney replied: 
>³We¹d do a deal, and we¹d look at YouTube and 
>we¹d look at BBC and we should have freedom to 
>sign whatever deal works.²
>
>That¹s the country¹s two biggest ISPs ­ with 
>more than eight million broadband households 
>between them ­ openly admitting they¹d either 
>cut off or effectively cripple video streams 
>from an internet
>broadcaster if it wasn¹t willing to hand over a wedge of cash.
>
>Understandably, many of the leading broadcasters 
>are fearful. ³The founding principle of the 
>internet is that everyone ­ from individuals to 
>global companies ­ has equal access,² wrote the 
>BBC¹s director of future media and technology, 
>Erik Huggers, in a recent blog post on net 
>neutrality. ³Since the beginning, the internet 
>has been Œneutral¹, and everyone has been 
>treated the same. But the emergence of fast and 
>slow lanes allow broadband providers to 
>effectively pick and choose what you see first 
>and fastest.²
>
>ITV also opposes broadband providers being 
>allowed to shut out certain sites or services. 
>³We strongly believe that traffic throttling 
>shouldn¹t be conducted on the basis of content 
>provider; throttling access to content from a 
>particular company or institution,² the 
>broadcaster said in a recent submission to 
>regulator Ofcom¹s consultation on net neutrality.
>
>Sky, on the other hand ­ which is both a 
>broadcaster and one of the country¹s leading 
>ISPs, and a company that could naturally benefit 
>from shutting out rival broadcasters ­ raised no 
>such objection in its submission to Ofcom. 
>³Competition can and should be relied upon to 
>provide the necessary consumer safeguards,² Sky 
>argued.
>
>Can it? Would YouTube ­ which was initially run 
>from a small office above a pizzeria before 
>Google weighed in with its $1.65 billion 
>takeover ­ have got off the ground if its three 
>founders had been forced to pay ISPs across the 
>globe to ensure its videos could be watched 
>smoothly? It seems unlikely.
>
>*Walled-garden web*
>
>It isn¹t only high-bandwidth video sites that 
>could potentially be blocked by ISPs. Virtually 
>any type of site could find itself barred if one 
>of its rivals has signed an exclusive deal with 
>an ISP, returning the web to the kind of AOL 
>walled-garden approach of the late 1990s.
>
>Stop sign 
><http://www.pcpro.co.uk/gallery/features/364573/the-end-of-the-net-as-we-know-it/159073>
>
>This isn¹t journalistic scaremongering: the 
>prospect of hugely popular sites being blocked 
>by ISPs is already being debated by the 
>Government. ³I sign up to the two-year contract 
>[with an ISP] and after 18 months my daughter 
>comes and knocks on the lounge door and says 
>Œfather, I can¹t access Facebook any more¹,² 
>hypothesised Nigel Hickson, head of 
>international ICT policy at the Department for 
>Business, Innovation and Skills. ³I say ŒWhy?¹. 
>She says ŒIt¹s quite obvious, I have gone to the 
>site and I have found that TalkTalk, BT, Virgin, 
>Sky, whatever, don¹t take Facebook any more. 
>Facebook wouldn¹t pay them the money, but 
>YouTube has, so I have gone to YouTube¹: 
>Minister, is that acceptable? That is the sort 
>of question we face.²
>
>*Where¹s the regulator?*
>
>So what does Ofcom, the regulator that likes to 
>say ³yes², think about the prospect of ISPs 
>putting some sites in the fast lane and leaving 
>the rest to scrap over the remaining bandwidth? 
>It ran a consultation on net neutrality earlier 
>this year, with spiky contributions from ISPs 
>and broadcasters alike, but it appears to be 
>coming down on the side of the broadband 
>providers.
>
>³I think we were very clear in our discussion 
>document [on net neutrality] that we see the 
>real economic merits to the idea of allowing a 
>two-sided market to emerge,² said Alex Blowers, 
>international director at Ofcom.
>
>³Particularly for applications such as IPTV, 
>where it seems to us that the consumer 
>expectation will be a service that¹s of a 
>reasonably consistent quality, that allows you 
>to actually sit down at the beginning of a film 
>and watch it to the end without constant 
>problems of jitter or the picture hanging,² he 
>said. Taking that argument to its logical 
>concl