R: [governance] Nobel Prize for The Internet
Michael Gurstein
gurstein at gmail.com
Thu Sep 16 10:44:12 EDT 2010
I think emphasizing the collective nature (co-creation) of the Internet is
rather a good thing.
Also as Mawaki says demonstrating that things are created by people is also
a good thing.
And finally emphasizing (as one would hope) the developmental and
distributive (information and capacity), emergency response and peace
building impacts and opportunities of the Internet would overall be a good
thing. If nothing else it would point out for those who might need it to be
pointed out, that the Internet is not just about making billions in the
stockmarket or wherever.
It should also be pointed out that according to some reputable sources
http://www.city.ac.uk/whatson/2009/10_oct/291009_Peter_Willetts.html the
actual recipient of the Prize might be equally identified as being civil
society and our very own APC (or at least some of the originating partners)
as other more well known individuals and agencies.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Mawaki Chango [mailto:kichango at gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 7:20 AM
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
Subject: Re: R: [governance] Nobel Prize for The Internet
I would think the humanist idea of the prize by Nobel was aimed at
acknowledging human agency for betterment of human conditions, peace among
nations, etc. The internet did not create itself; people created it. The
internet does nothing, humans connected through it do (and yes, there is a
lot of negativity taking place among some of those people, too). The IPCC
example is not unique: it is the same concept as when the Prize is giving to
teams of scientists (physicists, biologists, etc.) who collaborated to
produce the outcome/output by which their merit is being recognized.
So by that standard, it'd make perfect sense to advocate that the engineers
and scientists who worked hard to bring about the internet be nolelized, but
we must understand that advocating for the internet itself is comparable to
nothing done before by the N. Committee --it'd be a quantum leap, so to
speak! It might even be fundamentally against the philosophical foundations
and views of the Nobels as I refer to above. So don't be surprised if that
idea qualifies as nonsense in the eyes of some.
A few weeks ago, in another discussion I suggested that we may try and offer
a definition for the internet (in the context of social action). Some may
say it is the people connected, some other the infrastructure (both
illustrated in this discussion) yet some others the protocol stack (just
bare specifications), etc. So this is not a given, and as I said, there are
people on the internet saying and doing very nasty things too, including
against fraternity among nations.
Down the proposed path, next thing you might hear is that, like the King,
the Internet has two bodies...
Mawaki
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 8:35 AM, Craig Simon <cls at rkey.com> wrote:
Hello All,
I strongly agree with Jeanette. The "Internet" does not merit a Nobel
Prize. It would be a shame to award it to some incorporeal entity in light
of the many deserving individuals and agencies who have made great
sacrifices in the service of peace and human liberty, and whose cause could
be immediately advanced by the Nobel Committee's recognition.
Craig Simon
On 9/16/2010 8:02 AM, Brett Solomon wrote:
Hi,
Good discussion!
If you look at the manifesto put forward by the proposers
(internetforpeace.org <http://internetforpeace.org>) it's pretty clear
that the award is not for the infrastructure or the person, but for the
global web of users:
*We have finally realized that the Internet* is much more than a network
of computers. It is an endless web of people. Men and women from every
corner of the globe are connecting to one another, thanks to the biggest
social interface ever known to humanity.
Digital culture has laid the foundations for a new kind of society. And
this society is advancing dialogue, debate and consensus through
communication. Because democracy has always flourished where there is
openness, acceptance, discussion and participation. And contact with
others has always been the most effective antidote against hatred and
conflict. That's why the Internet is a tool for peace. That's why anyone
who uses it can sow the seeds of non-violence. And that's why the next
*Nobel Peace Prize should go to the Net. A Nobel for each and every one
of us.*
I understand that people who would then receive the award would be the
'founders' of the internet including Vint Cerf, Tim Berners-Lee and a
few others on 'our' behalf.
On balance, I would argue that many of the key drivers of conflict have
been weakened as a result of the internet. Whilst it is used for violent
or aggressive purposes, the internet has contributed significantly to
the 'fraternity between nations' (peace prize criteria), to create
political stability, to protect and promote human rights and to allow
for cross border relationships.
I dont feel overly strongly about this, but it is certainly a discussion
starter, and waves the flag for the power of the internet to achieve
peace and understanding, and serves as a warning that an open internet
is worth fighting for.
Brett
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 2:26 PM, Jeanette Hofmann <jeanette at wzb.eu
<mailto:jeanette at wzb.eu>> wrote:
Hi all,
I realize I could have said a word more or two to explain why I
don't support the nobel prize suggestion. One of the reasons has
been brought up several times. The Internet is not a human being and
therefore the wrong entity to receive this prize. The second reason
is that the Internet is clearly collective achievement that can
hardly be attributed to a single person. It would not be the first
time that an individual gets honored for the achievements of a group
of people. However, I don't understand why we would support such a
practice.
I apologize for my blunt statement last night. I probably thought
somebody should better say no to this idea before it has a chance to
catch on.
jeanette
On 16.09.2010 10:41, Avri Doria wrote:
hi,
I initially read it that way and though that Internet related
sciences might be an interesting category. Not sure what the
right name for the category would be.
then i realized that this is probably not what the original
sender meant.
so I thought of the Internet in its role of bringing people
together and fostering community and making the world much
smaller and enabling an access to knowledge that was unthinkable
for most of world history. I was not sure that this was enough
to merit a Nobel prize yet because there was still so much to do
and still so may warts on the Internet that needed to be fixed.
but Obama got the prize for peace making before he had done
anything, so I figured that maybe the Internet and the multitude
of people who invested their lives into building this thing we
all depend on (whether we curse it out or bless it), deserved it
more than he did at the time. but i was still not convinced.
then i saw the messages of this list and got very afraid of
having an opinion on the topic.
so please forget i said anything.
a.
On 16 Sep 2010, at 12:29, shaila mistry wrote:
Hi all
I saw it very differently. I saw the Internet as anothe
category. Such as literature and science. Etc. In this
context the Nobel prize would still be given to an
individual. For their exceptional contributions in the field.
In a skeptical note , when I look at some tecie
From: Benedek, Wolfgang (wolfgang.benedek at uni-graz.at
<mailto:wolfgang.benedek at uni-graz.at>)<wolfgang.benedek at uni-graz.at
<mailto:wolfgang.benedek at uni-graz.at>>;
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
<mailto:governance at lists.cpsr.org><governance at lists.cpsr.org
<mailto:governance at lists.cpsr.org>>;
parminder<parminder at itforchange.net
<mailto:parminder at itforchange.net>>;
Subject: Re: R: [governance] Nobel Prize for The Internet
Sent: Thu, Sep 16, 2010 1:49:49 AM
May I endorse the thoughts of Parminder, I do not see what
can really be gained by the nobel prize for the internet,
different from giving it to UNHCR, AI etc to point out their
good work as a model for humanity and support their concerns.
Wolfgang Benedek
Am 16.09.10 10:17 schrieb "parminder"
unter<parminder at itforchange.net
<mailto:parminder at itforchange.net>>:
I am sorry, but I hate to give human status to any
artifact.... even the Internet... And Nobel prize is for
human beings, maybe the best among them or whatever.....
Next we may hear is that 'the Internet has rights'..... not
at all going in good directions if you ask me :)
(At a recent conf i was given this T shirt - dont think what
the Internet can do you you - think what you can do to the
Internet -- this kind of expressions almost scare me, and
make me feel belittled as a human being in front of a
'system'... Well if we are insistent on going down that path
then lets give noble prize to the 'system' instead, the all
powerful one)
parmindr
On Thursday 16 September 2010 01:26 PM, Fiorello Cortiana wrote:
We have to be pragmatic, the Nobel Prize to the net could be
useful to
recognize it as a commons, the wider public space in the
human history, not
a new infrastructure after telegraph, telephon, radio,
television and PC. This is why we need an extension of the
rights in
a new way: multilevel and multistakeholder. I know what I
say under
Berlusconi's Government the freedom of expression on the
net is in peril.
With Stefano Rodotà and many other we gathered 400.000
signatures under an
appeal against an awful proposal of law and this time we
won. Ready to the next one :)
Fiorello
-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: Carlos A. Afonso [mailto:ca at cafonso.ca
<mailto:ca at cafonso.ca>]
Inviato: giovedì 16 settembre 2010 9.30
A: governance at lists.cpsr.org
<mailto:governance at lists.cpsr.org>; Jeanette Hofmann
Cc: Shahzad Ahmad
Oggetto: Re: [governance] Nobel Prize for The Internet
I of course agree with Jean, although perhaps I would not
phrase it as bluntly :)
--c.a.
On 09/15/2010 07:20 PM, Jeanette Hofmann wrote:
I think this is a real rubbish idea and I am very much
against sending
any message to that effect.
jeanette
On 15.09.2010 16:05, Shahzad Ahmad wrote:
I suggest that one of CS representative strongly raise the
support
for the Nobel Prize for the Internet either in the closing
session or
in regular interventions in the plenary. It will be good if
IGF sends
a strong message out on this.
Best wishes and regards
Shahzad
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