[governance] enhanced consultations - further inputs

[Ian Peter]

Of course Parminder I realise that you did not invent that phrase!

But there is something attached to the continued use of that phrase (the law
of the jungle) that is symptomatic of a greater problem ­ the belief that we
as humans have evolved beyond nature and to be better than nature. We
haven¹t.

That belief that we are above and beyond nature is at the centre of many
false belief systems and resultant dysfunctional societal structures.

But I digress ­ yes I agree with the It4Change raising of transboundary
issues as a gap in current internet governance structures and your responses
here. I think IGC should adopt something similar.

Ian Peter



From: parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
Reply-To: <governance at lists.cpsr.org>, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2010 12:02:17 +0530
To: Ian Peter <ian.peter at ianpeter.com>, "governance at lists.cpsr.org"
<governance at lists.cpsr.org>
Subject: Re: [governance] enhanced consultations - further inputs



On Friday 03 December 2010 11:47 AM, Ian Peter wrote:
>  Re: [governance] enhanced consultations - further inputs Hi Parminder, I have
> to pick up on this
>  
>> > So?? We shd throw all governments into the sea and live by the law of the
>> jungle?
>  
> Except for the resultant pollution of the oceans ­ well, yes!
>  
> As an ecologist I am aware that jungles are far better behaved and structured
> for co-operation than nation states. Jungle creatures are aware of their inter
> dependencies and act to protect each others existence.  A nice balance between
> different and complementary life forms which enhance each other and could
> teach us a lot about enhanced co=operation.
>  
> I could go on at length here, but please, leave the jungles out of this if you
> are looking for an analogy for some worse state of existence than nation
> states. I am not sure that there is one to be honest, given the history of
> silly wars , non democratic feudal behaviour, and intolerance, but if there is
> a worse state it is certainly not the jungle!
>  

Ian, 

Probably I should not say anything in response to your well-intentions
ecological musings :), which of course have been said by putting your
political hat aside.

However i did not invent the phrase 'law of the jungle' nor originally
ascribe to it the meaning in which it is used which is things like 'might is
right' and 'survival of the fittest'. Darwinism may be a natural fact, but
Darwinism applied to society is not the kind of thing we want to live by,
right. 

Parminder 
> 
> Ian Peter
>  
>  
> 
> From: parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
>  Reply-To: <governance at lists.cpsr.org>, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
>  Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2010 11:34:11 +0530
>  To: <governance at lists.cpsr.org>
>  Subject: Re: [governance] enhanced consultations - further inputs
>  
>  
>  
> On Friday 03 December 2010 11:21 AM, McTim wrote:
>   
>>  
>> On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 8:12 AM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
>> <mailto:parminder at itforchange.net>  wrote:
>>   
>>  
>>   
>>>  
>>>  
>>> If you do not want them to misuse their sovereignty claims, especially vis a
>>> vis matters that are are increasingly of global implication, then you need
>>> to have alternative globally democratic power
>>>     
>>>  
>>>  
>>   
>>  
>> I'm with Avri, to think that gov'ts won't claim sovereignty and act
>> unilaterally is idealistic at best.
>>   
>>  
>  
> So?? We shd throw all governments into the sea and live by the law of the
> jungle?
>  
> BTW, I did mention that in the areas under the ambit of WTO and WIPO,
> governments, largely, are unable to act unilaterally.
>  
> About being 'idealistic', well, i dont know what is more idealistic than to
> think that everything can self govern itself to the best satisfaction of all,
> the kind of thinking that underlies your contributions to most political
> discussions here.
>  
> Parminder 
>  
>   
>>  
>>  
>> Unless your data is on a server in SeaLand
>> (http://www.sealandgov.org/) or someplace like it, some gov't will be
>> asserting authority of some kind.
>>  
>>   
>>  
>  
>  
> 
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