[governance] Net neutrality on mobiles

Lee W McKnight lmcknigh at syr.edu
Sun Aug 8 21:40:28 EDT 2010


Hi,

If I may interject a few comments:

1st, at a time when Google is busily cutting deals with Verizon that (according to news reports) amounts to Google's abandonment of net neutrality, it is ironic many here are still trying to define the term.  
2nd, Ian when you say 'we have created an uneven playing field where it is difficult for other new search engines or social networking sites to compete with the incumbents;'  I have 2 further questions:
1) who are 'we'? (since I don't believe many on the list had much say in the actions mentioned)  
2) When was it ever easier for new entrants to compete with incumbents than in the Internet age? 

Lee


________________________________________
From: David Goldstein [goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au]
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 8:08 PM
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Ian Peter
Subject: Re: [governance] Net neutrality on mobiles

Ian,

Well, given that every ISP of any size in Australia is having its own zone for
unmetered content, wired and wireless, then this is an argument that is already
lost. Whether it's with television stations, Tivo or any of the myriad of
unmetered content deals, then it all falls into this category. And the deals
aren't about giving different download access speed, unless you exceed your
quota.

As for bundling or customer loyalty, this is what all these deals are about -
it's about the telco or any other business attempting to give themselves an edge
in the provision of some forms of content.

David





----- Original Message ----
From: Ian Peter <ian.peter at ianpeter.com>
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; David Goldstein <goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au>;
parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>; ciresearchers at vancouvercommunity.net
Sent: Mon, 9 August, 2010 6:09:47 AM
Subject: Re: [governance] Net neutrality on mobiles

David,

The point you are missing is that when a carrier or ISP creates a non
traffic shaped free zone for users who have exceeded download limits and
includes, say, Google and Facebook and no other search engine or social
networking site - meaning all other sites are subject to much lower speeds -
we have created an uneven playing field where it is difficult for other new
search engines or social networking sites to compete with the incumbents. To
me this is is a serious issue for innovation, free markets, and network
neutrality. .

I don't see how this is similar to customer loyalty systems or product
buyndling.

Ian





> From: David Goldstein <goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au>
> Reply-To: <governance at lists.cpsr.org>, David Goldstein
> <goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au>
> Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 23:11:39 -0700 (PDT)
> To: <governance at lists.cpsr.org>, Ian Peter <ian.peter at ianpeter.com>, parminder
> <parminder at itforchange.net>, <ciresearchers at vancouvercommunity.net>
> Subject: Re: [governance] Net neutrality on mobiles
>
> I can only say this is a bit absurd Ian. Next you'll be going after airlines
> for
> giving their frequent flyers benefits over non-frequent flyers. Or the
> benefits
> Telstra gives for customers who bundle their services.
>
> There are many other internet issues that I see every week that are never
> addressed in this group, and you want to focus on this trivial issue?
>
> Regards,
> David
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Ian Peter <ian.peter at ianpeter.com>
> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>;
> ciresearchers at vancouvercommunity.net
> Sent: Sun, 8 August, 2010 1:53:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [governance] Net neutrality on mobiles
>
> Hi Parminder,
>
> Unfortunately Australia has already jumped ship on this too. It is common
> practice for ISPs here (who have volume charging regimes) to create free
> zones of their partner sites which do not attract volume charges and/or
> traffic shaping when people exceed download limits. Nobody here seems to
> want to pick this up as an issue. To me, this is a distortion of a free
> market and an open Internet at the same time and should be attracting a lot
> more attention.
>
> The mobile world, as you mention, brings with it other distortions and
> potential distortions (eg built in apps and interfaces)
>
>
> I agree - we should discuss.
>
>
> Ian Peter
>
>
>
>
>
>> From: parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
>> Reply-To: <governance at lists.cpsr.org>, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
>> Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 08:51:02 +0530
>> To: <governance at lists.cpsr.org>, <ciresearchers at vancouvercommunity.net>
>> Subject: [governance] Net neutrality on mobiles
>>
>> Hi All
>>
>> The biggest mobile operator in India, Airtel, is providing Facebook free
>> of data download charges in India (apparently, only for 2 months). I
>> understand this is happening in other countries too; i read about
>> something similar in Russia.
>>
>> I consider this as an outright violation of net neutrality (NN).
>>
>> Since there are existing codes of conduct on NN in some countries like
>> Norway and Brazil, I will like to know from those who know and
>> understand these country specific arrangements well if such a thing as
>> above will be considered a NN violation under these codes.
>>
>> If indeed developing countries are to have any chance of being a part of
>> shaping and governing the future of the Internet, we should start
>> testing such cases as above with the telecom regulatory  authourities,
>> and if needed with courts and anti-trust bodies.
>>
>> Parminder
>>
>> PS: See latest developments on NN debate in the US at
>>
>>
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/08/google-verizon-close-to-their>>
-
>> own-net-neutrality-deal.ars
>>
>>
>> It appears that there is some move to treat wireless or mobile based
>> Internet on a different level vis a vis NN than wired Internet.
>>
>> As the largest market players - here, Verizon and Google - seek to
>> arrive at a mutually convenient  arrangement, and the only other party
>> to it is the US gov, itself representing very partisan, and largely
>> dominant, interests, as far as the global public Internet is concerned,
>> the real shape of global IG is quite evident. Where does the IGF, and
>> indeed the IGC come into this may be a question that we need to ponder
>> upon.
>>
>>
>>
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